127 Hours with Sean Clements

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check You know I've been thinking. Everything is uh... just comes together.

[00:00:27] It's me. I chose this. I chose all of this. This rock... This rock has been waiting for me my entire life. And its entire life ever since it was a bit of a meteorite a million billion years ago up there in space.

[00:00:41] It's been waiting to come here. Right here. I've been moving toward it my entire life. The minute I was born, every breath I've taken, every action has been leading me to this podcast on the Earth's surface. Doesn't it feel that way sometimes, David?

[00:01:00] Absolutely. Doesn't it feel like we're just stuck with... which of us is the rock and which of us is the arm? Great question. I think sometimes... You're the arm, I'm the rock. I think it swaps. Sometimes. I think. It swaps.

[00:01:12] Swaps depending on... Or are the audience the rock and we're the arm? Maybe. Together? Or... or sometimes it's the other way around. You know? Sometimes we're trapping them and... They're stuck in here with us. A main conversation. It goes both ways.

[00:01:28] I mean, like any good marriage. Sometimes you're the rock... I can tell you my experience is the guest is the arm. Oh... Oh boy. Well, that's true. We're happy you're stuck here with us.

[00:01:40] I don't know what you're talking about, Sean. I do not know a single person who has ever not enjoyed being on Hollywood Handbook. I cannot... Certainly not personally. Certainly not someone I was on the show with. I can't even imagine someone having...

[00:01:55] Are we going to bring this up every time? I can't even theorize the adverse reaction someone would have. I remember... I just remember you telling me, I was like, oh, how did that go? And you were like, well, I don't know.

[00:02:06] **** just was sort of... and we could bleep that out if you want. But, you know, it's just sort of sitting there and they would just be kind of like, what are bugs? And you did not understand.

[00:02:18] First of all, first of all, I believe the question was, what is bugs? Secondly, I think people can... Sounds like a good show. Great joke. It does. Perfect diamond cut joke.

[00:02:32] I think people can look at the history of times I have been on Hollywood Handbook and see the times I have done it with other people and guess which one of those people didn't like it. We can bleep out the name, but I don't think...

[00:02:44] With no disrespect to that person who was a friend of mine, but was not able to quite... Really nice guy. I don't know what was going on. I just remember how open he was about disliking it. Like, he just... Yep. Both on mic and off mic.

[00:02:59] This is confusing for me because you seemed like lovely people... That was his exact line. ...outside of the show. Right. But then the show is so aggressively unpleasant. I know people who like you. I know people who like you. Yeah. So it's just a little confusing.

[00:03:20] It's a little funny because that was maybe a 47 minute record and he did come out of it looking exactly like Franco at the end of the movie. It was blood around his mouth. And he had severed one of his limbs, even though he didn't need to do that.

[00:03:35] Dysentery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had various sores that had developed through it. After recording. Canteen full of mud. Look, this is... Blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. That was...

[00:03:52] I mean, I don't know if it's because it's a late night record, David, but you were a little slow on the draw there. I'm a little slow. I think I have some sort of permanent Zoom delay at this point. I don't know, Griff. Oh boy.

[00:04:05] Well, don't you think so? I feel like I'm always a little delayed these days. Remember we had to do this shit every fucking episode? Yeah, and do you remember? For like two years?

[00:04:16] Remember like a year and a half of doing it every episode, and for a good run of that, records would only start at 10pm? I think it was 9pm, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What can I tell you? Hells... Look, I don't want to be overly dramatic here.

[00:04:33] That was my 127 hours, and I think it was actually worse. I think it was actually worse than what he experienced. But we tend to record in person now because we've learned the lesson of Danny Boyle, that humanity is about the connections we make being there with other people.

[00:04:50] But occasionally we have a guest so fucking good, we'll fire up the old Zoom. I feel guilty. I'm sorry. I wish I was there. No, no. You should not feel guilty. No, no. We literally... It's fine. This is a choice. We made a choice. We made a choice.

[00:05:08] We just got back in the studio, and obviously energy's been electric. Yeah, that's been so exciting. It is. It's been powering the entire Western Seaboard. The fact that you and Kelsey can now banter in person on The Flagrant Ones, it's next level. Oh yeah, that tension's insane.

[00:05:29] No, check out... Electric. Check out The Flagrant Ones at Hollywood Handbook, because now that it's in person, it's a totally different show. I'm not sure if you thought you didn't like it. If you're a friend of Griffin's, maybe you're a well-known actor, and somebody who's done

[00:05:45] some absurd comedy in your own right, maybe go ahead and dip your toe back in. Is usually really good at committing very hard for long amounts of time to esoteric bits. It feels like you guys were being silly.

[00:05:58] It's like, yeah, but doesn't that kind of line up with your whole thing? Maybe if you thought you didn't like the show, now's a chance to give it another listen. Or take a plane, fly back, do an in-studio appearance, give it another shot.

[00:06:15] Look, this is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce baby.

[00:06:31] Sometimes they get stuck, pinned between a rock and a wall for 127 hours. Yeah, in Utah's Canyonlands National Park. Thank God. After biking around without telling anyone where you're going. Yeah, like a fucking psycho. I'll say it, like an idiot.

[00:06:50] We can all agree that this guy fucked up, right? I know his human spirit persevered and all that, but what the hell? What is the matter with this guy?

[00:07:01] Producer Ben has a bit, he started, I hesitate to even call it a bit, I'll say he has a life philosophy that he's starting espousing on Mike over the last year, which is whenever

[00:07:10] we watch any sort of thriller, heist movie in which someone gets stuck in a moral quandary and digs themselves deeper and deeper into a hole, Ben always has the same takeaway,

[00:07:20] which is if I was in this movie, it would end with me on a tropical island that I own. I would keep all the money, I would never get in any trouble and I would be fine. No one would die. Yeah, I would do it different.

[00:07:32] And the way I would do it different, it would work out great. Right, and I feel the same way watching this movie, which is if I were in Ralston, what would happen is I would stay in bed with Clemence Pozy for the rest of my life. Problem solved.

[00:07:45] That was the high point. Stay there, dude. Figure out the longest lease you could get, order a lot of takeout. Don't go to the cave. Are you outdoorsy, Sean? You're not a dorsey guy? Do you hike? Yeah, I like the national parks usually.

[00:08:04] I mean, I have an opinion on parks like this that are like rock and desert, which is I don't like them as much. I want to be around big trees. I like Yosemite and I want trees and rivers and lakes.

[00:08:24] That's what makes me really feel like I'm getting away. So when we do get a little vacation-y break, we went to Big Sur not that long ago. I like to be in the woods. I do too, I'm with you.

[00:08:42] Went through Utah, drove up through Utah right before our first child was born and did a little trip with the dog, took the dog to some big hiking areas and went to Zion. But did not do Canyonlands and this landscape is just not my preference. It's very beautiful.

[00:09:09] But it just looks so dusty and hot to me. Yeah, I'm trying to clarify. Are you saying you are or are not a Zionist? I'm trying to identify clearly here on the podcast. It's unclear! He did it, but it sounds like it's not his favorite thing.

[00:09:25] It's not how he would identify. You know what? It's a very fair question and we all do need to at some point take a position on this. I can no longer ride the fence. No, it has to happen on Mike. On Blank Check's 127 hours episode.

[00:09:47] To finish setting things up, this is a miniseries on the films of Danny Boyle. It's called Slump Pod Million Cast and our guest today from Hollywood Handbook. It's not called that! Isn't it called Train Spot? Oh, you're right! Jesus!

[00:10:00] It's been a little while since we've done a Boyle episode. It's called Train Spotcasting. Slump Pod Million Cast was the alternate title. They're both good. Thank you. Wow, we gotta leave that in though. That's like alternate universe shit. That is alternate universe shit.

[00:10:16] Everything, Everywhere, All at Once, Hollywood's favorite movie. So you're kind of paying homage there. Yes, yes, yes. The Blank Checks that could have been. Exactly. Sorry, it's Train Spotcasting and introduce our guest.

[00:10:30] I'm now imagining Our, Everything, Everywhere, All at Once, which is just the timelines are exactly the same except the names of the miniseries are different. And there's no shitty title. No ripple effects. There's no domino effect of those changes. Just which dumb joke.

[00:10:48] Here's an existential question for the podcast. Do you think the Blank Check system will exist anymore? Like do you think the Daniels now will get blank checks? Yes. No, right? Great question. Really? Yes.

[00:11:02] I think they'll get to make like a movie but I don't think they'll get like four bites at it. They signed a five-year deal with Universal that I think is very similar to Jordan Peele's deal.

[00:11:13] They feel like one of the few examples of because that movie was not just such a big Oscar player but it was genuinely a big profitable hit and they made it so cheaply. I think similar to Get Out, Universal is like, you know what?

[00:11:31] If you can make stuff for under 50 million dollars, whatever the fuck you want. You know, even 60 million dollars is a bargain if you can stretch your dollars this far.

[00:11:41] I also, and I think I can say this and Ben, I will let you know if I can't but I'm pretty sure by the time this episode comes out it's fine. I just saw Bo is Afraid, the new Ari Aster movie. Yes.

[00:11:55] And that is another one where, you know, Avli, yeah, he made it for whatever he made it for. It wasn't 200 million dollars but still really the most classic example of a blank check of a guy being like,

[00:12:07] I made you two hits, now I get to do whatever I want and you do not get to ask me any questions about it. Like, that movie screams, like, you have to get off my back.

[00:12:19] Like, I will do, I'm going to do everything you didn't let me do the last couple times. It's going to be not a horror movie. But in these, but in the filmographies you cover, I feel like sometimes people get their blank check and then it just like...

[00:12:35] Never runs out. Yeah, it doesn't run out but I feel like, I'd be curious to see in the modern era where it feels like there's a little tighter leash on people. Because like, I guess Damien Chazelle had a blank check, right? He did, yeah. There's another one.

[00:12:53] But it seems like post Babylon, just as it was difficult for silent film stars to transition into the era of sound, it may be difficult to move forward here.

[00:13:08] He's another fascinating one because right before Babylon came out, Paramount signed a big new deal with him and seemed really bullish. And my question is, is the conversation now Damien Chazelle being like, can I do my thing for 50 million dollars rather than 100?

[00:13:24] Or if they're like, Damien, you have to make Quiet Place Part 5 and then we'll talk. Like, is there a conversation that is like, Damien, here are our established properties and if you pick one of these things that we already like, then we can have a conversation. Ghostface?

[00:13:41] Right, do you want to do... Any takes on Ghostface? Like, here are the things where we'll give you more leeway. What city could Ghostface be in? Yes. La La Land! Take him all the way to La La Land. Yeah, Ghostface takes Hollywood. I mean, that's true.

[00:13:55] Oh my god. Imagine. Ghostface killed a jazz enthusiast. We all know what Chazelle's Ghostface movie would be. It would be Ghostface questioning whether he has the time and the bandwidth to have a personal life

[00:14:12] or if in order to become a truly great serial killer, he has to sacrifice all human connections. And unlike 127 Hours, the movie might come down on the side of just focus on stabbing people. Be the best stabber you can be. Become the best stabber, right. Yeah.

[00:14:26] Wait, there's another blank checker though. Our guest today is Sean Clements from A Hollywood Handbook and The Flagrant Ones. Sorry, sorry, I got us off on the tangent. No, no, David's fault. It just occurred to me.

[00:14:37] I mean, I guess the real thing is that it's like if you make a Marvel movie successful, half the time that's not a blank check thing anymore. Half the time no one cares.

[00:14:47] Sometimes, you know, like Ryan Coogler can do it and then I'm sure he could make something weird if he wanted to. But Coogler is an interesting question for me. Well, the Russo brothers and man have they been putting those checks to good use.

[00:15:02] I mean, those guys take risks. I mean, to do a movie like The Gray Man, like no one makes movies like that. I mean, you know, it's got the gray man in it. Do you guys see The Gray Man? Oh God, yes. Three times.

[00:15:20] The bank handed them the checkbook and they went, thank you, we appreciate this. But we also wanted to ask, is there maybe a corner office? Is there a permanent position we could take at the bank? We'd love to get into the office.

[00:15:31] Can we shoot our next movie in your bank? Right. A good double feature is The Gray Man and the PJ Novak film Vengeance. Vengeance. Gray Man ultimately becomes about Harvard being evil. All of the people, all of the bad guys met at Harvard.

[00:15:53] Vengeance, written and directed by a Harvard man, and these are spoilers so you guys can block this out. Does result in the murder of a wicked Yalie, who was the villainous mastermind of the film.

[00:16:10] And so it's like, you know, I don't know which side to take, but they're just both interesting to think about. And in totality, you kind of get all of humanity featured in a way. Look, I prefer my movies to ask questions rather than give me answers.

[00:16:24] And I think you're talking about two films that are in a really interesting dialogue with each other. I just found out who plays the evil Yalie in Vengeance. I'm just looking at the Wikipedia page for Vengeance. I didn't know about this. Yeah, I should cut you some spread.

[00:16:40] God, spread! Another great title, just like Vengeance. Screw you Van Halen. Spread them out. No, Sean, it is a conversation that I feel like we have a lot.

[00:16:53] And I feel like 15 times a day, a listener will go to the Reddit or tweet at one of us or call us or show up at our door and go, does this person have a blank check or not?

[00:17:05] And it is getting... I think the examples are getting fewer and further between. And a lot of them have huge contingencies around them.

[00:17:16] And the thing that rarely happens is like you're a slumdog millionaire where a movie comes out of nowhere, explodes, makes an ass ton of money and the world loves it and it wins Best Picture. And everyone's just like, well, triple crown. You've done it all.

[00:17:33] No one is disappointed at this movie in any regard. We have complete trust in you. I feel like there are usually a lot of qualifiers around it now.

[00:17:43] And the Marvel thing, yeah, is weird because like I think we've talked about this as well in the past, but like it used to be a thing that if you made a Harry Potter movie, it felt like a lot of those directors chose to do it so that they could make their passion project afterwards.

[00:17:55] Yeah, that's right. You were... Yeah. Post Chris Columbus, it was like, OK, I make this and now I'm seen as a profitable filmmaker. Right. Like made Rent and Alfonso Cuaron made his Harry Potter and then he got to make Children of Men.

[00:18:07] And no one was going, well, we don't give you any credit for that movie. That movie was a hit because of Harry Potter. No one could have made it. The studios would go, you know what? Fine. You made a movie that made like 800 million dollars. Here you go.

[00:18:19] Make your weird thing. Yeah. Chris White's making New Moon. Our friend Chris White's like that's him being like I made a bomb. OK, I want to prove that I can make a competent, you know, money making movie. Right.

[00:18:32] And basically, if you do that strategically now, they keep you on the leash for that franchise or other movies where they're going to keep you on a tight leash or whatever it is.

[00:18:42] Or you make a profitable indie and then you get announced as a director of a new Star Wars movie and then you get to write her out pre-production and then they go, wait, never mind. Never mind. Never mind. Yeah.

[00:18:54] But I do think, Griff, I do think Everything Everywhere is what you're talking about. Yes, it is. Like, I mean, I don't know what we'll have. It is the slumdog thing. Right. So maybe. That's what makes them unique.

[00:19:05] And I think Get Out was close to that, even though it didn't end up winning Best Picture, but it was a similar kind of thing. I think Gerwig's in that position now, even without having won the Oscar.

[00:19:13] Barbie's kind of a half blank check because she's also like tacking on to a franchise thing. But then if Barbie is big, then she can do literally anything. Yeah, but this is all depressing and I'm excited for Barbie. Of course it's depressing. But. Of course it's depressing.

[00:19:28] But the examples of the people we're talking about who only make original films, it's a shorter and shorter list. It's a shorter list. It's fascinating because he makes the early decision in his career to not do Alien Resurrection and be like too early for me.

[00:19:43] Sean, did you know that? He was the first choice for Alien Resurrection. I didn't know that. He was like thinking, you know, this is off like, you know, Trainspotting. And he was thinking about it and he was like, I can't handle the CG. I don't know.

[00:19:58] I can't handle a movie star. Forget it. He does Life Less Ordinary instead and basically like decides that he couldn't pull it off.

[00:20:07] And then in the last five years, well, came very close to doing Bond and is one of these guys who actually have like the sort of wherewithal to go like, you know what?

[00:20:20] I can see that you're not going to let me make the movie I want to make. It's fine. I'll walk away. Like just, you know, basically at the fulcrum point where it was like shit or get off the pot.

[00:20:31] He was like, I don't want to have to do this if I'm going to have to fight for this all the time. So he's kind of actively avoided this his whole career, not being able to make things the way he wanted to.

[00:20:42] Now what I had heard, David, and I don't know if this is corroborated in the dossier that JJ put together, but that there was basically a kind of handshake deal with Fox Searchlight after Slumdog Millionaire that was anything you want under $40 million gets greenlit immediately. Pretty much.

[00:21:01] Yeah, and that's why he does this movie because that weekend we can talk about first. I do, but it true. Just like, yeah, anything you want. Yeah, right, right, right. You get to, yeah, if you're going to stay in the Searchlight stable, anything you want basically.

[00:21:16] But Sean, I want to ask you about Boyle. I want to ask you your Boyle, your overall Boyle feelings as we're thinking about him. You know, I feel generally positive about him. Obviously, I loved Trainspotting when it came out. I thought it was cool.

[00:21:34] I liked the soundtrack of it. I was like, this is great. 28 days later, you know, thought that was cool. I think I just had a sort of positive, like, this guy's good. He's making cool movies, feeling about him.

[00:21:53] This one for me, like 127 hours, kind of is really what sold me as like, you know, this is essentially a bad idea for a movie. Like, sure. To me, like so much about it is like that won't work.

[00:22:10] And I saw it in the theater and I teared up in the theater. I felt very emotional, was like super invested in it and like didn't expect to be hooked and really interested.

[00:22:28] But just went because it was going to be an Oscar movie and I had the time. And then I was just like, oh, shit, this is really cool. And so that it kind of pushed me over the top.

[00:22:42] And I think put him into another category for me of like, okay, this is beyond just like I usually like his movies to like, oh, this person is especially talented in a way that connected to me. But I couldn't really tell you since then.

[00:23:04] Hasn't been the best run since this. I was like, great. Now I'm all in on Danny Boyle. And then it was like and then I don't think he's done anything else that I have had strong feelings about.

[00:23:19] You're not a Jobs head because I mean, the other three, no one really few people have strong feelings about trance transporting to or yesterday. But Steve Jobs is the last movie of his to be polarizing. I liked it. I liked it. I was not blown away by it.

[00:23:37] I know. Yeah, I know it was polarizing. Certainly I worked for a boss at the time who couldn't get over the fact that he like washed his socks in the toilet or something at one point and no one talked about it.

[00:23:48] And he was just like, this is cute. Just be a fucking scene in the movie that you're doing this. You're not allowed to do that. Like this is one of the most disturbing things I've ever watched on film. And there are witnesses to it.

[00:24:03] And like, so that stuck in my head as a take. But I think I saw it and generally liked it. And it felt like a little too sorkin-y in spots. But Fastbender is good. It was interesting. But yeah, it was not like an A plus for me.

[00:24:28] Nothing captured your imagination. I didn't have really strong feelings. When I saw 127 Hours, that year for me, and I'm sure we'll go over, I can't even recall exactly what did win.

[00:24:41] But I was like, I thought this was, because of the level of difficulty and everything, I thought this was the best performance I saw this year. I thought this was the best movie I saw this year.

[00:24:52] I'm not shocked that it didn't win, but I thought it should win Best Picture and Best Actor. I really thought it was like, really good. On a re-watch, was it as impactful? No. But when I saw it, I was like, oh, I think this is great.

[00:25:07] This was the Oscar year that King's Speech wins Picture, Director and Actor after everyone had sort of thought that Social Network was the frontrunner for most of that season. If Social Network had beat this movie, it would be less embarrassing than King's Speech beating both of them.

[00:25:29] Looking back, I've watched Social Network multiple times since it came out. I love it. It's one of the best movies I've ever seen. I think it should have won Best Picture that year. This is a huge theater movie. Yes. Yeah. My experience in the theater was special.

[00:25:47] Watching this thing at home, and I know I'm an evangelist for watching things in the theater or whatever. We all like to watch things in the theater here. But watching this at home, you're not stuck with them. It's true. So much of the power of it is lost.

[00:26:04] You can just pause it and be like, yeah, still on the rock. Okay, I'm going to go get an orange. Yes. Which I did, I'm going to be honest with you. Well, hey, humble brag.

[00:26:15] It's one of those movies like Rear Window where you can watch it and appreciate the craft of it. But there's something about like you are stuck in a chair, in a dark room, watching this guy be stuck that does really transform the thing.

[00:26:33] I did feel like in certain ways I had more of an objective appreciation for this movie watching at this time. I hadn't seen it since theaters, even though it obviously is a less like all consuming visceral thing.

[00:26:47] But I think when you're watching it, certainly watching the first time in theaters, you're just so like on edge and overtaken by it. But I also, I don't know if you have had the same experience, Sean, David as well.

[00:27:02] I just like liked this movie a tremendous amount when I saw it and at no point ever considered rewatching it. Because I was like, oh, that movie is impossible to rewatch. That's the other thing that like I wouldn't have rewatched it unless we were watching it for this.

[00:27:17] I don't think I would have been drawn to rewatch it. And as I rewatched it, it was like it lost a lot of its impact because I had seen the whole thing.

[00:27:28] So like moments as you guys are saying, like when you're in the theater and he's like at the decision point to try to start cutting through his arm or something like that. Things like that where it's like, fuck, okay, we're going.

[00:27:42] And the way that the score lines up with him like hitting the nerve, like all those little things. They just, it's so fucking intense.

[00:27:53] And you don't have that at home and you don't have it when you have seen and remember every beat of it and generally where they come in. It's just not the same journey. I wouldn't put it in the same category.

[00:28:08] There are certain movies that I've seen where I think they're like expertly made and super intense and I'm so glad I saw them. But I never want to watch them again, like funny games or something where I'm like, okay, I don't want to see it again.

[00:28:23] Or like Bug. I'm just like, great, okay. Come on, let's throw on Bug. Yeah, but I'm like never going to be like, let's throw it on. This isn't that level of like fucked up or something, but it is similar.

[00:28:39] It is similarly like you're just uncomfortable the whole time and I guess I don't need to go through that again. No, and we'll get to this in the episode, but like Fox Searchlight made this catastrophic miscalculation in the promotion of this movie,

[00:28:57] which was pushing how many people at festival screenings of this film before it came out fainted, puked or both. And they turned it into this fucking horror movie. You're never going to be able to survive this thing that genuinely scared people off.

[00:29:11] Where I think as you're saying, the more exciting thing about seeing this movie in theaters was the fact that, once again as you said, you're like, this shouldn't work as a film. There's no, you cannot think of…

[00:29:26] How do you make a cinematic 90 minute narrative based around this event? How do you possibly pull this off? How can any performer pull this off? How do you make this exciting? I mean, Boyle's whole pitch was like, do an action movie where the guy can't move.

[00:29:42] Right? Which is in and of itself, it's like a challenge that he's presenting to himself. So much of the excitement of seeing in the theater wasn't just the tension of it, but being like, how does he film this? How does this film play out?

[00:29:55] What happens for the next 30 minutes? How will he show us the arm getting cut off? All these things that when you know, as you said, it takes a little bit of the juice out of it. But it is this kind of blank check thing that I love.

[00:30:07] And I think the fact that Boyle was already basically two decades into his career when he won his Oscar, was not getting the blank check status at a very young age.

[00:30:20] Being the hot young kid, having a bit of a fall for grace, coming back, having this huge hit. Like he's not saying what's the one movie I've always wanted to make that they never make me make because of the size or the scale of the thing.

[00:30:33] He's instead saying basically, to me, in my eyes, him taking on this movie is him being like, now I challenge myself. Right. Let me really give myself a fucking test to make sure I'm still sharp, that I'm not going to get sloppy.

[00:30:48] That I can push myself further as a filmmaker, which on that level he succeeds wildly. Yeah, that's cool. Just one more thing on the first, I'm going to break open the dossier in a sec, but on the first viewing of it,

[00:31:02] you are, even if you haven't been reading blog posts about people throwing up or whatever, you are like, he's going to cut that fucking arm off. There's so much tension and you're just imagining like, it's going to be too gnarly.

[00:31:20] And then as it always is with these things, even with the most insane fucked up horror movies, which this is not, it's what you imagine is worse than what you're going to watch. And once you've seen it, you're like, oh shit. And they tease it so early.

[00:31:36] They do when he puts the knife in. The knife is too dull. And it's like, I don't know, all of that. He puts it into your mind very early in the film. Like, I might have to try cutting my arm off.

[00:31:53] And so it is just sort of simmering there. And then you're like, he's going to go for it. And it's fucking bonkers. But yeah, I mean, it was a thrill. I couldn't do it. I'm just dead. I'm not cutting my damn arm off. Yeah, right.

[00:32:13] I don't know how. I don't know how to break my legs. Yeah, I mean, break my arms, break my bones. I don't know how to do that. Right? Yes, that's part of it too. Well, yeah, him having that rescue training.

[00:32:24] He's kind of a dumbass, but it does sort of... I don't know, for me, because I am a little bit outdoorsy, not too much, but you open up and he's fucking biking and showing people different secret entrances to cave pools.

[00:32:38] And you're like, fuck man, this guy's living the life. What if this was my life? Just cool and free and know how to do a lot of stuff. That's awesome. And then he gets trapped and you're like, oh good, I did the right thing.

[00:32:51] Good thing I don't live this life. This sucks. This will never happen to me. And then it comes all the way around to like, shit man, this guy fucking is like a special person. He does a thing that I wouldn't be able to do.

[00:33:08] No, I mean, you're talking to two New Yorkers who I think our idea of an adventurous getaway is to take the subway to get a sandwich. Not go to subway, take a train to a further place that has a better sandwich.

[00:33:27] Look, I am more outdoorsy than you, Griffin. Absolutely, almost impossible to be less outdoorsy than me. But yeah, I'm kind of like, let me do a day hike. And is it basically a loop? How hard do I have to think while I'm hiking?

[00:33:42] I like that kind of a hike. Do I go up the hill and down the hill? I get that. Someone was trying to sell me on hikes the other day. And I said, look, I like walking, but my favorite thing about walking

[00:33:54] and I'll walk for a very long time. I don't want to brag. I'll take a long ass walk. But what I like... Believe it when I see it. Level ground. You love a flat walk? You should move to Nebraska or something. You should really level it out.

[00:34:08] Flatlands, the flats. I like the flats. I like shade. I like walking with a parasol. Hiking rocks. Wildlife rocks. Yeah, I like all that stuff. I mean, my family's from upstate New York. I would go to the Adirondacks every summer.

[00:34:26] But that's why I like a lake mountain thing. I have never experienced dusty crevasses, whatever. I've never done any of that stuff. Canyons. I've never done canyons. Two bobcats when I was at Big Sur this last time. Well, Goldthwait, then who's the other one? That's my joke.

[00:34:51] You are so nasty. That was my joke. You are so nasty. I try. What do you do with a bobcat? What's the procedure when you see a bobcat? Nothing. What did you do? Look at them. You just let them.

[00:35:07] Flashed up, looked at them, took a little video, took a picture. Yeah, said what's up. I guess they're not that big. I guess I'm thinking of a cougar or something. Yeah, bobcats aren't that big. So I've seen them multiple times. Yeah, they're like 35 pounds.

[00:35:21] But the first time I saw one was when I was in Yosemite. And I was like, you know, I'm taking a picture of a big mountain. And I hear behind me, oh, all the frogs are starting to do their thing.

[00:35:32] So I walk over to the edge of the water through this off the trail, kind of swampy area to be like, let me go look at these frogs. Of course I can't see them. But as I get to the edge of the water,

[00:35:41] I turn and we've surprised each other. Me and this bobcat are like six feet away from each other because he's drinking some water. And I'm peeking around to see if I can see some frogs. And we both in a cartoon start backing away from one another.

[00:35:58] And I was scared. I was like, I should be scared. And then I talked to a trail guide the next day. And he was like, they're like a cat. They're cats. They're really a little bigger than a cat. They don't want fuck all to do with you.

[00:36:12] They just are like, dude, this is where I drink my water. Get out of here. But yeah, so now I've seen a couple more and I'm not as nervous. See, I watched this movie and the first 10-15 minutes of this movie is where my life is quote-unquote fun.

[00:36:31] None of this is appealing to me. Where he's driving off road and he's biking and he's pal... What about palling around with Kate Mara and Amber Tamblyn? Here's why I would love to do that. A coffee shop. I would love to pal around with them.

[00:36:45] I'd love an invite to that party with the inflatable Scooby Doo. And they'll say people are out, back. And I'll go, no, it's fine. I'll hang out in the living room. You don't want to like swim in a damn cave, Griff? Doesn't that look fun?

[00:36:58] I went to a cenote. That's the only part of this movie that feels a little appealing to me. But I still wouldn't do it. Sean, was that cool? The cenote? I want to do that. Yeah, it was awesome.

[00:37:15] And there was like a little makeshift carved into the rock like stairwell on the side and you walked up like whatever 15-20 feet and then you can dive in. Were you in like Mexico or...? Yeah. Wait, what's a cenote? It's basically what they're in.

[00:37:33] It's like a cave pool. Yeah, it's like a crater inside of a cave filled with water. So it's like a really deep little kind of indoor lake thing inside the rocks. See, when I watch Into the Wild,

[00:37:47] a movie I also have not re-watched in a very long time. Oh yeah, but I like that one a lot. I like that one a lot. And that one... It's also associated with a really normal guy.

[00:37:57] Except I don't like when he looks right at the camera and is like, Now me and you are hanging out. I'm just like, why are we doing this? That part can go fuck itself. I was so in it. Yes.

[00:38:08] But that's a movie where I'm sold on his thing. As much as the guy was proven to be kind of an idiot... Well, that's because he's... No, wait a second, Griffin. That's because he's got your Morden outlook about humanity. Thank you! That's no good. Thank you!

[00:38:27] I'm admitting, I'm acknowledging that he's wrong. He is more of a Griffin though in that he goes up there and then he's like, I don't know, should I eat these berries? And then he's like, ugh, I don't feel great. It sucks. It all goes wrong immediately.

[00:38:41] Yeah, he has no training. Yeah, he doesn't really know how to do what he's trying to do. I relate to that. I guess that's the thing. I can relate to this guy, but even the idealism of what he wants to do where he's just like,

[00:38:52] This whole world is full of shit. Let me just fucking go to the forest with a van and not have sex with Kristen Stewart. I'm like, I can see all of this playing out. Make a belt with Hal Holbrook. Yeah, I like the landscape he's exploring more. Yeah.

[00:39:14] I will just touch back on, you know, you saying, both of you saying, all of us saying we couldn't do this. We couldn't break our arm or cut our arm off. Oh, no, I could do this. You could do it.

[00:39:27] You would do it and it would work out fine. You'd do it. It would be great. I wouldn't even need a tourniquet. Yeah. Ben, you would do it like someone pulling a tablecloth really fast and none of the dishes. So clean. You'd just be like, whoosh. Exactly.

[00:39:42] You'd make it out of there with arm intact. But one thing to keep in mind in these extreme circumstance movies is that when you are going through this, this is something to keep in mind for everyone. Anyone who has fear around like, what if this happened?

[00:40:00] What if I was in this situation? When that's happening to you, you are no longer you. Does that make sense? Yeah. The parts of your brain that are activated and deactivated during that experience, the you that is evaluating how you would behave

[00:40:23] has nothing to do with what would be happening in the situation. I understand what you're saying, but to play devil's advocate, I think I die through some set of circumstances before I even get to that point. I think I die... Well, sure. He's in a specific circumstance.

[00:40:42] I die leaving the hiking store. I get hit by a car. Sure. I face plant the bike into a sinkhole. I don't think I ever... I can't even imagine getting to the point where that survival instinct kicks in. The bike is doing you in.

[00:40:57] The bike does me in. Yeah, you're not making it past the bike. No, no. Yeah, yeah. I guess that's right. We should crack open the dossier and start talking context. Yeah, let me tell you something. The most important place to start with the context

[00:41:12] is just remember when we all fucking heard this story? It was such an insane news story. Because we've covered some other movies like this where it's based on a real event, but they're usually these stories of a triumph, or some national tragedy that happens

[00:41:31] over a drawn out period of time. For this story to land of like, this guy is rescued, and then every newspaper and website in the world is like, hey, guess what? A guy was stuck underneath a rock for five days. He sawed his arm off. He's alive now.

[00:41:48] And just seeing these photos... He sawed his arm off with a pocket knife. That was a big part. We were like, oh shit, with a pocket knife. I think this story hits so big less even for the triumph of the human spirit element

[00:42:01] and just for what we're talking about. Every single person read this story and went holy shit, what would I do in that situation? Yeah, so obviously that happened in 2003 to Aaron Ralston in Blue John Canyon. Is that where it is? Blue John Canyon? Blue John, yeah.

[00:42:23] GQ named him their survivor of the year, which as far as I can tell, that's the only time they've named anyone their survivor of the year. Yeah, I'm trying to think of other survivors of the year that I've liked. Richard Hatch?

[00:42:36] Fuck, we're both rushing for the same joke. Kelly Wigglesworth? Danny Boyle hears about this and he gets the book Between a Rock and a Hard Place, obviously. The guy is wedged to the rock when he's like if I ever write a book about this, it's called

[00:43:00] you know, that title. One billion comedy points given to him upon signing the book deal. Boyle reads the book, so this is pre-Slumdog obviously and he sends it to his exec at Pathé Films in France and says, I think I know a way how to do this.

[00:43:23] I know it looks impossible, but you can be honest to the event, you can show it on screen, but you can do it in a way the audience will tolerate it. Like, do this immersive experience. And they basically say go fuck yourself, right?

[00:43:39] Yeah, I mean, other people had thought about it. Ralston had himself gotten together with Alex Gibney who's a guy who makes like two documentaries a year to try and make a documentary about it and weirdly they couldn't get financing for it which seems odd to me

[00:43:57] because one, it's a documentary, you don't need that much money and two, Touching the Void had just come out and was like such a hit and I feel like there was probably some interest in these kinds of like, you know, extreme tales of, you know,

[00:44:13] of the wilderness type documentaries, but I don't know. It's bizarre. Yeah. Are you at all, like, just as we talk about this guy and his experience, do you have any like, I don't know if it's skepticism, but like do you feel a certain type of way

[00:44:32] about these people who like have something crazy happen and then they just cash in on it in this major way? Like, I guess, you know, it's a life-defining experience, it's an interesting story, but doesn't it feel a little weird? Yeah, yeah.

[00:44:47] I mean, look, we will get to it, but a thing I found really fascinating was digging in to this guy's life for the last 10 years since the movie came out and it played out a lot differently than the note the movie ends on. Yes, yes. In every sense.

[00:45:07] Yes. But I also feel like when we were all younger, every year or so, it's kind of the Oprah-type thing, not to diss Oprah, I mean, you know, but like these people with their sort of like tales of triumphant woe coming on, telling their story,

[00:45:31] there's something moving about it, there's something kind of compelling and frightening about it. And then they get turned into motivational figures, it becomes sort of a life philosophy thing. Yes, and then they get put on that track. You know, the great American heroes, Sherrod from Subway.

[00:45:47] Well, the Cheshire murders, you know, happened in my hometown. Really? Yeah, that's where I grew up. It was like across the street from one of my best friends. Wow. And that, for people who don't know, was like an in cold blood type murder situation. But just invoking Oprah,

[00:46:04] the husband, the dad, was a doctor. These two people went in, beat him up, left him in the basement unconscious, did horrible stuff, murdered the rest of the family, set the house on fire, and he woke up and like got out of the house.

[00:46:22] That became like an Oprah story and he got interviewed. Now he was already, I guess, a very successful doctor and stuff, but to my knowledge, he never became any kind of speaker on it. I guess it's not as much of a story of like

[00:46:39] triumph or something as some of these that we're talking about. Right, like what's the life lesson? Well, what was interesting to me is when he did Oprah, I think unlike almost everyone else I saw, she was like, and can you find forgiveness in your heart

[00:46:52] for these men? And he was like, fuck no. Fuck these guys forever. No, I hate them. And just like never, would not give Oprah an inch. Love it. I relate to that. But that's, I guess that's all on TikTok.

[00:47:11] I'm not saying that like Oprah type shows don't exist anymore. This is what I was going to say. No, I do think you're onto something, David, that there's something to the speed of the press cycle also too, is like

[00:47:21] it used to be there would only be a couple stories of this scale that hit at the right time, that broke through in such a big way and then there would be like at least a nine month victory lap sort of like tour

[00:47:35] of all the major outlets leading in the book where they would just stay top of people's minds long enough to be awarded survivor of the year by GQ magazine the following year or whatever. Now it feels like these things happen a lot faster. You're forgetting already people

[00:47:51] who were like this two months ago, you know? But I guess you gotta be the right person, like a person who's compelling and who wants to do the circuit and make it their life and there has to not be another news story that knocks you

[00:48:05] out of the conversation. Hard to become this person like during COVID Right. Like would that have been on the fucking news if somebody got stuck and it could be like what were you doing? Get inside! Yeah, stay home! Asshole! You know, I just think it's

[00:48:25] stay down there. Suits your right. We used to have time for these stories. We don't have time for this shit anymore. I assume neither of you have read his book Between a Rock and a Hard Place. I have not. No, but the title's still getting to me.

[00:48:39] Yeah, it's a good title. In the book he alternates chapters between being stuck down in the canyon and like his past, his family his home life and Danny Boyle who had already run into this problem. He tried to make a film about a big fire in Massachusetts, 3000 degrees

[00:49:01] and that had fallen apart because the families of the people who had died were not into it. And he's like I'm nervous about meeting this guy because I'm gonna cut all the other shit out. I don't want to do anything about his family. I don't want to do

[00:49:17] alternating between I don't want to take those breaks because my whole idea for this movie basically is to really not vary the tempo of it all and stick with him down there and go on flights of fancy in his brain but don't cut to five years ago

[00:49:35] or whatever. So David what were the other I mean can we get into details here on what the changes were that Boyle made to the book? I'm always curious what they kept from the book whenever they adapted the book

[00:49:47] what's in and what got left off. I feel like we usually breeze over this and I feel like why not take the time to actually account for it page by page. I think I should just start JJ did it right? He gave you the material?

[00:50:01] It's all in here It's a 450 page dossier. We should mention I feel like we forgot to set this up at the beginning of the episode obviously we've all been saying none of us could imagine living through what Aaron Ralston did but we

[00:50:25] want to sort of out of respect and deference try to simulate the experience as much as possible so we are attempting to make this our first 127 hour episode. Now obviously there are two camps that are constantly warring in the blank check listenership

[00:50:41] some who think the show has gotten too long and some who think the show is too short But regardless to honor this movie in particular it's just it'd be silly to let it be less than I don't know if we'll make it the full

[00:50:55] 127 hours but it should be at least 115 hours. So we're one day in now and David I appreciate you taking the time to explain all the changes from the book And like the thing about all those changes is what gets Boyle the credibility to make him

[00:51:11] is that he just won a bunch of Oscars cause like at first Ralston's like I don't want to do it but after Slumdog he basically is like look I'm Danny Boyle, you know I wanted to be in the Aaron Ralston business so you know he couldn't say no

[00:51:29] that's sort of the way He wanted to be in the Aaron Ralston business they were thinking franchise at that point right? Well with respect some of the changes that you went through and I did appreciate how thorough it was some of them were a little boring

[00:51:43] just like I didn't you know some of it was just like small wording things Even your delivery lacked a little pizzazz Yeah it seemed like you weren't as interested but the main one right is that like what he actually, he met two women on a hiking trail and

[00:52:03] apparently he showed them some basic climbing moves which like sounds very boring Yeah he did not show them a secret like entrance to a magical cave that they dove into until they all went away Yeah exactly It's kind of like you jump I jump

[00:52:25] Jack you know where it's like a trust fall thing Yeah and by the way when they are jumping it looks like they are scraping the fuck out of their fucking back Does it not look like their back would be ruined Yes That looks so unpleasant to me

[00:52:45] I know Ben would enjoy it but I wouldn't be able to do it I'd slide right down smooth sailing It looked like it would hurt but you know you hear that Danny Boyle wanted to change it the air was like no it has to be the climbing holds

[00:52:59] and you're like my brother have you ever watched a movie like we're asking a lot of people already For once in your goddamn life stay home sit on a couch watch a movie and figure out how they work Yeah maybe he hasn't Maybe he hasn't

[00:53:17] Yeah it doesn't seem like what he's interested in but it's a great change like it's just correct It's necessary it's beautiful genuinely like it just looks nice and I think you need some sense of this guy is this kind of like vibrant sort of winning personality right like

[00:53:43] otherwise I don't know maybe you're just kind of not with him from minute one like right like you just kind of need him to be charismatic for a second You need one sequence where he's charismatic yeah that he's charismatic and that there's life

[00:53:57] there's so much life waiting for him like these girls are into him and they invite him to a party that he's like missing out on something you want him to get out because you're like it makes it both like a paradise lost sequence where then when he's in

[00:54:17] the shit he can keep thinking back on like how recently I had it fucking made like I was in this perfect movie scene and then the alternative that is like the sliding door of him being like and if I had just stayed in that I'd be fucking partying

[00:54:33] with a blow up scooby doo now watching this tape of these two ladies tell me they think I'm cute and I can do nothing about it you need that yeah no because it's smart to not start the movie with him being like mom dad

[00:54:47] I'm thinking about going on a trip it's better to start with him leaving his house right it's better to start in the swing of things you do need to see him engage with other people for five to ten minutes and have him be

[00:54:59] charming. Just get this sense of him as like he's like this nature sprite he's like just this weird creature who's sort of joyful versus say into the wild guy where it's like okay this guy is in search of something he will never find this is like bleak

[00:55:19] somewhat relatable sad but he's just trying to walk to the end of the earth or whatever that's not what this you know Aaron Ralston he's just a fun loving guy. Guys I'm sorry I just I have some bad news I feel the need to inform the podcast

[00:55:39] a recently established character in Blank Check Lore who only makes appearances when we do zoom episodes has in fact returned at 9.39pm on a Thursday night the naked guy who lives directly across the street from me is walking around fully naked eating dinner he is naked

[00:56:01] dicked out pacing back and forth holding up a bowl and a fork I think he's eating pasta he's eating pasta standing up he is pacing fully naked eating dinner I gotta be honest with you guys I consider myself a fairly free and not modest person

[00:56:23] I have never eaten dinner naked that is not something that seems appealing to me at all here's what I never want to happen accidentally spill food on my penis that is a moment of such deep embarrassment if you have gotten to that situation

[00:56:39] there are multiple layers that are supposed to shield you from that ever happening maybe that's why he's not sitting down maybe, you know what you're right makes it harder to drop it in your lap if I'm eating in the nude something has gone wrong if I'm eating dinner

[00:57:03] walking around something has gone wrong if I am walking around eating dinner in the nude and you can see me send for help this is almost a 127 hour situation of the series of bad decisions that have led to this moment and I want to make it clear

[00:57:23] this isn't like a Jerry Maguire he and a lover sitting across from each other eating their strawberries or whatever this is a methodical pacing back and forth bull for penis nearly 10pm on a Thursday night I'm just fascinated I'm glad he's back because

[00:57:47] you know, it just kind of keeps the zooms fresh to have our version of this character it's nice to have a guy yeah let me give you some more facts more facts from the dossier apparently one thing that Boyle is thinking of taking on post Slumdog

[00:58:03] is a remake of the Park Chan-wook film Lady Vengeance glad he didn't do that and we talked about this in the Slumdog episode but he what is it he buys the rights to the book the Mumbai book yeah we talked about this in the Slumdog episode

[00:58:27] and set up at Fox at one point claimed that was going to be his next movie and in retrospect it sort of feels like he bought the rights to pay off the author for not suing him for taking a lot from Slumdog

[00:58:39] yeah, this non-fiction book about life in Mumbai that's conjecture but he still hung up on this story which he had thought about years before he takes it to Simon Beaufoy and Christian Colson who he had done Slumdog with and Simon Beaufoy apparently a climber and he is

[00:59:01] initially skeptical because he's I guess just kind of like, ah come on for whatever reason Simon Beaufoy just doesn't like the idea of doing a climbing movie in a way but Boyle convinces him on the degree of difficulty

[00:59:21] which I feel like is how he gets everyone on board where he's like, the fact that it's hard is the interesting thing about it, right? you know, that's how he just keeps getting people to sign on the other thing I read is that he said

[00:59:35] this in an interview but you know, Slumdog is making the Oscar rounds the same season as The Wrestler and apparently Boyle was, you know, he's going to all these events with Aronofsky and Rourke and he's like, that's what I want

[00:59:49] to do next. I want to do a movie that's all about one performance like that. To build a movie exclusively around it and find the right person for it, that feels like a fun challenge for the next one on top of all the other

[01:00:01] sort of narrative technical challenges of this particular piece of material um, yeah yeah, Beaufoy compares it to like Samuel Beckett or whatever he's not saying I am Samuel Beckett but he's saying like, I'm trying to think of the action from like a Beckett play

[01:00:19] like Endgame where no one can move, right? So you know, you're interested in emotion psychology, trying to understand someone's feelings without any like dynamic action happening um yeah, I, you know I, the next thing I'm interested in essentially is uh, is the

[01:00:41] actor, right? Like, you know, I don't I, where's where's, we gotta talk about him where's James Franco right now when they're bringing him I mean it's post Spider-Man trilogy, it's post Milk I feel like Milk was kind of when he felt like a more serious actor. Milk and

[01:01:01] Pineapple Express. Right, it's it's, Pineapple Express comes out that summer, he hosts SNL as he's starting his first semester at his first university and it's sort of like, oh this guy's finally had a hit, everyone has now realized he's funny now he's got this weird press

[01:01:21] cycle around him being like, actually I'm stepping away from Hollywood, I wanna take courses. And then Milk comes out that fall so that's like his 2008 year where suddenly he starts to get elevated. He came onto the scene right, in like Freaks and Geeks

[01:01:37] or whatever, it's like, this guy's like a pretty boy, like he's the good looking guy on the show. He's James Dean he's the brooding, heart-throbbing Yeah, then he played James Dean and like and sort of was like, is he trying

[01:01:49] to, does he think he is James Dean? He's sort of acting like that, like he's like stuck in the role or something I, and I think he was whatever, worried about or potentially could have been written off as like, this guy's just

[01:02:03] like a handsome guy who was like a young actor and then kind of set out to be like no, I'm a real artist and I think with Milk, with by playing against type in Pineapple Express, which is like, that's a goofy movie, he insisted

[01:02:19] right on playing the bigger character. Right, he was supposed to play the Rogan part, that's how it was written and he insisted this is the one I wanna play and I think he had... He was like, I wanna swing and he did it

[01:02:29] like he achieved, you know, what he wanted, people were like, oh, this guy's got serious chops, you know, and this movie is like so, again for Boyle so hard, so hard for Franco for any actor to do this shit where you're fucking talking to yourself what a nightmare

[01:02:47] It's so easy to look so dumb giving this performance but yeah no, he had a weird career arc, cause I mean everything you're saying but it's like, Spider-Man was so big and so big at a point in time where there weren't many franchises that big, so even being

[01:03:07] the best friend in three Spider-Man movies kept him in the consciousness for long enough but then in between those movies he would do these sort of like failed leading man programmers like Tristan and Isolde and Annapolis where it was like, what is

[01:03:21] this guy? Does he have any personality whatsoever? And then another Spider-Man movie would come out and you'd be like, okay, well he's got this at least and then there's that like unexpected Apatow ascendancy, suddenly all the people he worked with, the guy who ran his show, all

[01:03:37] become like these power players in Hollywood and it's this thing of like, oh we could take Franco who's now almost looking like a failed dramatic leading man and reclaim him as a comedy guy and yeah, and then he ends up saying

[01:03:51] give me the funnier part, I want to do more of a character performance Boyle, I have read him say in interviews that Pineapple Express is the reason he ultimately cast him, that like his commitment to Pineapple Express, he said I

[01:04:05] watched it and realized this is a major actor Obviously Franco wasn't his first choice, but yeah Yeah, well who do you think his first choice was? Shia was the first or was it Gosling as the first? Okay, I knew those were the two guys for a while

[01:04:21] Was he going to do it with Kelly Murphy too? Like... Yes He talked about it with Kelly Murphy I think but that went nowhere Shia LeBeouf, there were unsubstantiated rumors about Ewan McGregor but I don't think those are real that's just something people

[01:04:39] would just say about a Danny Boyle project Shia LeBeouf it does seem like was the most serious contender God, it looks so much like holes I feel like holes in this Could you do both of those? No, you gotta pick agents like Shia, no, no

[01:04:59] You need mountains if anything No more, nothing down You can't go down in a hole, man And Griffin you're right, Gosling, Ryan Gosling I mean these are sort of obvious names for who were the hot young guys of 2010 He had liked Franco and Milk and Pineapple Express, apparently

[01:05:19] their first meeting was terrible This is Danny Boyle quote, I was convinced he was stoned He hadn't even finished reading the script But he swears he never touches anything and knowing him now I think it's his way of sussing people out

[01:05:33] He pretends to be out of it when in fact he's watching you to see what your reactions are I mean, what he seems to be describing is America's relationship with James Franco for much of his career Is this guy just fucking an idiot?

[01:05:47] Or is this some weird game? Either way I don't like it Is he fucking with me? He's fucking with me, right? Or is he like Shaun C. Gardner? Like there's this question of like has he tricked everyone into thinking that he's some intellectually activated guy

[01:06:05] But really it's just like A to B But when you mention like his commitment in Pineapple Express and that being impressive, and I do think of but I think of this movie and more than Pineapple Express I think this and Spring Breakers Yes

[01:06:21] I have this idea connected in my mind of like two performances that if you miss by like an inch Yeah You look so fucking stupid And to me, I think in both of them like he's incredible I think all three of those performances 127 Hours Pineapple Express, Spring Breakers

[01:06:43] I would nominate all three of those for Academy Awards and I would give him at least one of them depending on competition within the year Those three performances are incredible And the degree of difficulty is so high on all of them and nailing them

[01:06:57] But also when he does like Great and Powerful Oz or something, or he does a movie where he's like I don't think this is good and I don't think the part's interesting He just reads it We did Oz on the podcast and David made the point

[01:07:13] Right, he's a feast or famine actor where there's almost no middle ground whatsoever where like those three performances are so difficult most people would crumble under them he goes above and beyond and then there are times where you're genuinely like do you know that the cameras were rolling?

[01:07:31] Yes Did you know that this was not a blocking rehearsal? Completely phoned in and a movie like that too, right? Big budget movie where he's like, okay, taking the paycheck and I'm just gonna fucking get through the process It's that Rise of the Planet of the Apes

[01:07:49] There's like these movies where it's just like whatever he thinks whatever I think of the movie, this guy doesn't like it Like this guy is not interested at all in this movie But I even think there are some of the tiny indies that come out after this

[01:08:01] the ones that sort of made no impression whatsoever where it feels slightly the same way Part of it too Part of it is he just starts this thing of like I am the most productive man in the world I can do everything at the same time

[01:08:17] and most people who would be daunted by the idea of adapting Faulkner, period he's like I can do that in between classes classes I'm teaching and taking This is setting up my joke so I'll tell you my famous James Franco joke from the roast of James Franco Okay

[01:08:35] This was a joke you wrote that was rejected from the roast No This joke made it to air So I had in 2010 worked on a cartoon called Alan Gregory, Jonah Hill was the main voice show bombed but Jonah was very nice to us, very funny guy

[01:08:59] and then around the time that Comedy Central was doing a roast of James Franco he had myself and some of the other writers from the show over and we were like let's go get pizza and pitch some jokes He was one of the roasters Yeah he was roasting

[01:09:17] he was on stage roasting Franco I was there, Hayes was there and we all had some laughs and pitched some things but I had one joke that I pitched that made it to air I don't remember what any of the other jokes I pitched were

[01:09:31] I don't know if they got performed and they did well or bombed or what The joke as read by Jonah he may have reworded it to make it better I don't recall but he goes up and he says you know there's an old formula in Hollywood which is

[01:09:49] you do one for them and one for you but James has a little bit of a different formula He does one for them and five for nobody Oh wow It is what is most fascinating to me He is an incredibly complicated figure in so many ways

[01:10:13] He had such a weird stranglehold over the pop culture discourse for so long because he was doing so much and he was doing so many weird things and now obviously there's been a lot of reckoning with a tremendous amount of behavior

[01:10:27] that is bad in so many different regards but so much of it at the peak was this like what's the goal here? What's the end game? Where do we think this is going? You're making you are personally directing five films a year that barely get released

[01:10:43] There is no part of you that thinks maybe you should slow down and try to make one movie really well But the weirdest thing was there would be films with insane challenges He wasn't making Woody Allen type It's two schmucks in a coffee shop

[01:10:59] He was like, yeah no I'm going to roll up my sleeves It's been a hundred years No one's gotten William Faulkner right but I'm going to do it three times I'm going to just keep doing it Yes and the crazy thing is

[01:11:13] we talk about some of those performances of his that feel phoned in Some of them are the movies he directed where the performance feels weirdly phoned in because it's almost like he's on autopilot

[01:11:23] where he's like I can do this. I read the script. I know what it is Or he's like I don't think I got this one but I don't think I hit it but let's just get it done He directed a movie in 2018 called

[01:11:35] Future World which I have not seen and starred in it and Lucy Liu is in it I think and Method Man and other people that's like a Mad Max movie It is a bad Mad Max rip off that he signed on for as an actor

[01:11:49] and I believe a couple weeks into filming was like I don't like the director went to the producers and was like you should fire him. I'll take over as director He took over that one mid stream Why? I don't know I watched this very fascinating interview he did

[01:12:07] I guess about a year ago that was him sort of trying to come back and test the waters and apologize for his behavior Yeah where he sort of came He was like yeah I was a sex addict but it was one of those things where he kind of

[01:12:21] addressed some stuff and not a lot of other stuff I was trying to run away from myself Right There's an anecdote Look it's an interesting watch I'm not necessarily sold in any way but there are a lot of interesting sort of like statements he makes about himself

[01:12:39] that I think are telling in a way that he doesn't even quite understand but the one anecdote he has that is incredible and it's very similar to your joke Sean but the tragic playing out in real time version of it is he said he went to his

[01:12:55] agent and was like or you know the foreign sales people he had dealt with before producing partners he had dealt with before he was trying to get more projects off the ground he was like these are the next four things I want to direct

[01:13:07] this and this and that I can call Dan McBride in for a day I can get this person to do a cameo whatever it is and whoever it was he was talking to said like I cannot sell another James Franco movie everyone who

[01:13:23] at any point in time was interested in buying James Franco movies now is sitting on four James Franco movies they still haven't released there is a backlog no one is buying more the shelves are full and he was like it will take seven years to

[01:13:41] release the movies that you've made in the last two you've literally it's like hyperinflation like you've printed too many James Franco books and now bread costs a million dollars and this happens like right around the same time that a bunch of people start speaking out about these

[01:13:59] insane acting classes he ran different co-stars of his whatever so it's like all of it came to a head but even before that basically the industry was like there needs to be like a government bail out of James Franco films

[01:14:13] and then we all have to agree to never do this ever again and then you look at this movie and you're like this is the moment that should have been his anointment to the top tier of his generation. What happened four months after this

[01:14:31] movie came out in America? He hosted the Oscar ceremony in which he was nominated it is one of the most incredible acts of self-sabotage a night that should be an absolute victory lap for him it's his first nomination he's not gonna win but everyone's take away was clearly

[01:14:47] this guy's got big stuff in store he'll win an Oscar within the next five to ten years instead he goes up on stage and makes everyone in the world hate him that was crazy it's just incredible to think about it's that fast the turnaround

[01:15:03] is that after that yes he does do spring breakers in 2012 and obviously that's a universally well regarded performance but they're also like he was so good at playing a demon from like Florida hell you know like it's not it's not like they were you know

[01:15:21] that's a loaded piece of praise when you know you were great as alien the guy that if he was hanging out with my daughters I'd kill myself right but then meanwhile you talk about the feast or famine with Franco a year later he plays Hugh Hefner

[01:15:35] in Lovelace and can't fucking find an end to that character like sometimes you hand him a piece of material where you're like well obviously you could relate to this guy there's a thing for you to play here and instead he's like doing it off of fucking cue cards

[01:15:49] it's so bizarre this guy's kind of sleazy I don't understand cult of personality have you guys seen the interview I've never seen the interview he's in that he's like this co just big after I watch this like I kind of am curious because I have heard that

[01:16:11] he's also playing like kind of a big character like he's like a parody of a talk show like self obsessed like kind of dim he's the host right like not self aware Rogan's the producer I think like behind the scenes I saw that movie I saw a screening

[01:16:27] of it before it was cancelled from its theatrical release when it was just a normal like a twitter contest a living dictator movie that is a disastrous performance in my opinion it is the most calibrated performance no no it's a big swing that misses you know what Sean

[01:16:51] I'm curious to see it I know it's actually the only exception to what we're talking about it is maybe he's doing something and it doesn't work he's doing something he cannot do he's taking every fucking item at the buffet and stacking it on one tiny like

[01:17:07] fucking side plate obviously the other performance he gives post all of this that did make a huge impression obviously was his Tommy Wiseau but once again it was like okay you've successfully played a freak like and I don't mean any offense to Mr. Wiseau

[01:17:27] he's a guy who doesn't understand that he's a bad director and shouldn't be making movies in a film that you directed that is kind of amateurish at best from that standpoint it's an okay movie it's a lovable movie but not really because

[01:17:41] this is where the line is too of like it's like is this guy fucking with me but also is everyone fucking with him is this a windy city heat situation does this guy not know the weirdness to where it became like everyone was like

[01:17:59] how does he have a normal brother who's talented and everyone seems to think is a chill guy like people would be like accosting Dave Franco being like well what do you think of your brother and he'd be like I don't

[01:18:11] know like I don't know what to say about this like it got so strange that like well I'll say too from like when we did that roast writing session and we were like well what should we talk about Jonah was like I mean I've known this guy

[01:18:25] for a really long time but I kind of don't know him at all like and I think that that's an experience of like a lot of close friends like or like even maybe his own brother where they're like I don't totally

[01:18:41] know what's going on with him and I don't know if he knows what's going on with him which I guess is probably true of a lot of actors because it makes it easier for them to sort of like totally invest in these other realities

[01:18:53] and stuff and sometimes I think they are like it's an odd profession but there was also look there was this period of time in which he was involved in like four different universities either enrolled as a student teaching classes or both yes I mean obviously and that is

[01:19:11] that is the prime that's happening now when he's making 127 hours he says to Danny Boyle I wasn't stoned when you first met me I was tired from all of my classes that is his excuse too many schools well because he didn't right he went

[01:19:31] to his safety school and his reach and his early decision he went to all of them the other late James Franco performance I do like is Ballad of Buster Scruggs which is a tiny performance but he has to nail that final line where he says

[01:19:49] first time and he's got the noose around his neck and he does so I guess I'll give him that the last time I noticed him in anything obviously he does that's basically his last movie before he like disappears into the wilderness no he knows that line but I

[01:20:05] also think it's it's the weakest of all the lead performances in that movie by a yardstick yeah yeah I mean since then he has not done anything except for complete the the deuce yeah his work on the deuce which we all kind of just sort of

[01:20:25] I don't know never talked about that show was interesting but kind of a bummer I don't know well I was like somebody had to like tell me season two came out and there was a third season there was? yeah there were three

[01:20:39] yeah yeah yeah oh yeah they did three seasons I think third season would have been shorter but and I think the third season also came out in the we don't talk about Franco period like they were too deep in it and they

[01:20:51] were just sort of like look it's ending here you go here are the last episodes now here we are talking about I know I mean all I wanted to say was just that in that period where he was enrolled in four different universities

[01:21:03] and he would switch which ones every semester he'd go I'm dropping this one I'm adding this one but the universities would keep on saying like no he's really a student he's like really here he really does this and there was this kind of unspoken

[01:21:17] thing that has now come out that like he was sending proxies to all of these fucking classes of course and they would like film them and take notes and he would be like yeah yeah I got it

[01:21:29] because he was one of these guys who's like I can just read it and I'll remember it I'll process it I don't need to be there and it was such a good advertising campaign for all of these schools that it was like it started with him actually being

[01:21:41] there and then very quickly it would be like oh he hasn't set foot on this campus in two years or he only shows up when he's teaching this one seminar or whatever it is you know to be clear at one point or another

[01:21:55] he was enrolled at or taught at UCLA Brooklyn College Yale University, Columbia, RISD Three Days Later NYU Tisch and the Columbia School of the Arts and maybe also California State Summer School for the Arts those are the schools I can find that he was associated with

[01:22:23] oh and maybe Warren Wilson College I don't even know what that one is but he was there too. Thank you for taking the time to read all of those This is a college now We all go to Warren Wilson's College on the weekends He had the ability

[01:22:43] briefly to turn anything into a college Wherever he was became a college. He was deputized Yeah it's like how the president if he's on a plane it's Air Force One Welcome to Starbucks University David I don't know if this is in what JJ pulled up

[01:23:07] but I remember in the like award season campaign press run for this movie when Danny Boyle would speak very positively about his experience obviously how happy he was with the performance that Franco gave. He's an effusive fella Right and this movie

[01:23:25] there was this whole thing I know Sean that you want to talk about where the film has two DPs and the main reason they did that was because they basically were like let's have two crews that alternate so we can film double long days without overworking people

[01:23:41] and Franco once he basically got in there was in there and would just read his fucking textbooks in down time to keep like he was like I'll keep up with my classes in between setups and things like that but Boyle would

[01:23:55] say he was like look Franco is like a weird guy I would sometimes come up to him and ask him or you know make a suggestion direction wise or ask him if he thought he could do something and he would like sort of stop and like think deeply

[01:24:11] and then nod his head and go yes Franco can do that as if he was like an advanced computer processing a request and he was like it was never clear to me if this was some bit he was doing or if this is his process

[01:24:27] but he would speak of himself in the third person and was like yes Franco is capable of doing that well that sounds fun the Klemdog can relate except that every time somebody asks me something I go Klemdog can't hack

[01:24:45] I'm not going to give you what you want on this one bossy Klemdog's tapping out Klemdog is at capacity what you got is what you're gonna get from Klemdog friendo my apologies okay so Danny Boyle he's already

[01:25:09] got this crazy let me just give you a little Danny Boyle production nonsense because he is crazy initially he was like I want to shoot it on location in the canyons down there and they were like Danny we won't be able to feed a crew

[01:25:21] it's going to be unsafe and there's no light and he was like alright fine so then they recreate the canyon in an old furniture factory they did go to the canyon obviously to shoot the build up to his accident but they did not do anything else

[01:25:39] there he also wanted to shoot the film in sequence which I understand that right that he's like I want to give the actor the chance to build that up but that they couldn't do either it just feels like his style is counterintuitive to that because

[01:25:59] Boyle likes to switch between so many different mediums and so many different like kinetic insert shots and whatever you know if this were a more low key film if it were a stripped down Robert Brassan version of being trapped in the cave

[01:26:13] maybe you could do this in order I will say just to give this one props this is a movie where I completely believe that they're in the real place the same place the entire time that transition for me

[01:26:27] if you told me that they did it on location I'd go wow that must have been hard but I wouldn't be like no way it feels like it seamless transition it feels completely true the entire time the light feels

[01:26:37] right none of it feels stagey and I even think a lot of times you can sense the energy shift in the performances when people are out in nature versus when they're suddenly cutting to them in a contained controlled environment and I just feel like it's all

[01:26:53] on the same continuum for me I agree that it looks fantastic it wasn't nominated for cinematography this is an incredible year at the Oscars as we've sort of touched on like apart from the King's Speech like the other cinematography nominees that year along with the King's Speech

[01:27:11] which is actually an okay shot movie are True Grit, Social Network, Black Swan and Inception it's just all these those four films are all basically original films I mean True Grit and Social Network are based on books but you know what I mean that are like gigantic

[01:27:29] hits like audiences are like yeah yeah yeah we're ready for all that and King's Speech as well obviously this feels like the last time that you had like several Oscar movies becoming blockbusters rather than several blockbusters becoming Oscar movies other nominee that year is The Fighter

[01:27:49] which is another big hit all those movies did well because of Oscar buzz Inception is the only one that was sort of a hit coming in Inception was a summer blockbuster but anyway why did they shoot in a furniture factory and not Utah's many film

[01:28:07] stages you ask every single film studio in Utah was being used by John Carter which had to have a zillion sound stages just funny to think about so the fake canyon they made they wanted it to be like really difficult to access even if it was fake

[01:28:31] just to make it feel real for James Franco so only a couple people could yeah only a couple people could come in at a time they would leave him the camera and he could shoot material on his own the way that the Lar Larb who's the costume

[01:28:51] designer and was sort of the costume and production designer here the way they put it is his Danny Boyle's knee jerk response when you ask him something has nothing to do with traditional rational thought everything has to be an experiment until it's shot like

[01:29:05] he's just clearly he's just kind of like I don't know how can we do this differently to make it more real or more interesting like you know he just never wants to cheat in the normal way I guess until he's like back

[01:29:17] into a corner and it's like no we have to do it this way Danny or else like it's just gonna be too crazy all this stuff is clearly interesting like they made this set difficult for a reason I guess I don't

[01:29:31] know I think you can feel it yeah I'm sure yes I think it definitely adds to the performance I think like it has to feel claustrophobic yeah I think that energy like permeates all of it like it really yeah it felt authentic to me and like the two

[01:29:51] camera men thing where they're like constantly working because they like we can't do a four month shoot it's gonna be too intense like we need to compress the actual length of the shoot it's easier to make him work faster longer but fewer days and with the amount of

[01:30:07] set ups this movie needs it would just take forever if you weren't shooting that many cameras and shooting basically double days and everything and it does as you said they keep it moving by like doing all these weird like different insert

[01:30:21] shots and different angles and like when they start flashing to his memories I do think again something that could seem so stupid but the fact that they have him like mouthing the words along with his memory like say like just quietly

[01:30:39] saying to himself the thing that he's thinking about himself having said like it just feels I don't know that felt great to me like what would happen as you're starting to sort of dissociate from your own experience that's another reason I think this sort of liberties taken

[01:30:59] with the Tamblin Mara scene are so important is cause you need him to play showboat to that scale where when he gets to this point later in the movie it doesn't feel like a cheat to have him saying these things out loud yeah you're like

[01:31:19] this guy would he is so self mythologizing that he would be narrating this in real time he would be performing this for the camera or for himself and him reliving his memories in those moments would be like a full body experience for him

[01:31:35] not a passive cut to flashback thing when he's doing the talk show with himself and it like and those like fast cuts in between like him as the interviewee and him as the interviewer and like the level of energy that he has sort of be playing

[01:31:53] host and like brightening up and kind of summoning everything he has and then down to him being depressed and being like no this is how stupid I am like I didn't tell anyone where I'm going and seeming broken as you said it feels

[01:32:09] genuine it doesn't feel like a cheat it's very engaging it's very interesting but because you've seen what a show he puts on for these girls and how sort of into himself and sort of being a performer in his own life he is

[01:32:25] stepping off the rocks and having the confidence to make like three serial killer jokes in a row that kind of like absurd charisma that I feel like seems to be stock and trade for guys who are creeps to be like

[01:32:39] hey don't worry I'm not going to murder you like he comes down immediately makes a Friday the 13th you know what I'm saying but he's like I can sell this to them you need all of that I will say self awareness yeah the moment you're talking about

[01:32:51] Sean where he drops the reality of the reality show of the talk show and says you know it breaks down basically his realization that the soonest they would even send a rescue team to discover him would be another three days and then

[01:33:07] you just sort of cut to that wider shot of him in the rock realizing how doomed he is and the show is over that is how I'm going to feel in 45 minutes when we end this zoom and we just suddenly I'm just sitting at a table all alone

[01:33:23] it's like I that moment I was like oh this is what zoom podcasting felt like during the pan over is a bit good episode and then you just cut and call cut silence what day are we on right now three and a half four okay gotcha

[01:33:43] here's an early thing that I think is brilliant in this movie go ahead the delayed title card yeah yeah yeah yeah giving us so much fun and not hitting us with the card until he's stuck right like it's the minute he's stuck that

[01:33:59] we finally get the title that was so good and I didn't obviously didn't remember it from the first viewing but that really got me him getting stuck is communicated very well I know this may sound so obvious but the way it happens so fast and

[01:34:17] like you see the rock tumbling down you're just sort of like yep I get it yep he's stuck I don't need any more like I completely understand how he cannot move now like you know I don't need a physics diagram here they do it just

[01:34:31] right yes it feels just right and it's the fall it's like ah god damn it like fuck you know because it's the kind of thing where it would in the moment feel small feel like it feels like you spilled a drink or whatever

[01:34:43] right yeah shit ah you know right yeah god fuck damn it okay how stupid alright let me fix it and then it's just like nope no chance right he doesn't say ow he doesn't scream in pain it's absolutely a moment of more him being embarrassed that he fucked

[01:34:59] up and then it's the slow realization of like oh I'm actually doomed now and that you have so long to live with the mistake like because he's there right he's realizing his arm is pinned and then suddenly right above his shoulder appear giant letters that say 127 hours

[01:35:17] which is based on reality that's true and this guy's like you're telling me this is how long it's gonna be you kidding me for real but I feel like Boyle is incredibly good at spatial geography for someone who is so kinetic and manic as a filmmaker

[01:35:37] usually people like this just choose to throw that out the window and go it's part of my stylization I don't care I don't care and it gets harder when you're in a space that's this contained to even just make it so clear where are all

[01:35:49] of his items in relation to him you know when he rigs up that little like pulley system so that he can like you know kind of be able to take the weight off of his legs and stuff and the way

[01:36:01] they're kind of showing him like slinging the rock like all of that it's not overdone you know but you kind of just as you said with the getting stuck you're like I understand like I understand where everything is and like how and sort of how this works

[01:36:17] the most relatable shit in this movie for me talk about how much I don't understand this guy earlier in the episode the stuff that I think Franco does so well beyond the showboating stuff which is really hard to do without you know embarrassing

[01:36:33] yourself to do this sort of self narration all that sort of shit he has so many little moments where you register exactly what he's thinking where he's sort of taking account of his situation and the circumstances around him and you as an audience member doing the math

[01:36:49] and you can tell exactly what his conclusion is from that math but there are a couple moments that really stuck to me certainly that first moment when he realizes he's stuck but he doesn't realize how bad it is at first he's just like oh fuck

[01:37:03] god and it's sort of just that feeling of like the moment you've realized you've locked yourself out you know you like close the door and then you're like I don't have the fucking key and your brain does the whole thing like could I

[01:37:15] could I do this could I do this open can I try this oh do I have one over here like no I fucking moved it and you're sort of like that was a mistake made in five seconds you know I almost had the thought right

[01:37:29] before the door closed that I should check and I didn't catch it and now I'm gonna regret it and then similarly there's the moment where he places his water bottle down and then tries to fish a thing out of his eye and the water bottle falls over

[01:37:41] and he loses like 25% of his water. Talk about tension too the water bottle every time the lid of the water bottle is open I am panicking. Yes. I am like no don't put it down you have to always screw the lid back on. That's the thing.

[01:37:59] Unless it's in your hand I just please it so well where he's just like that moment of arrogance for a guy who's fucked to be like well I don't need to close it I'll pick it up again in half a second yeah yeah yeah

[01:38:11] and it's just like a near fatal mistake well and there's moments too where he's taking a sip and he's almost like starting to fall asleep or you know like he's like passing out a little bit and you're like no no no he's gonna drop

[01:38:21] his water like I'm so scared he's gonna drop his water and then when he finally there's a couple times where it feels like it will happen and it doesn't and then when it does I wasn't you know exactly expecting it

[01:38:33] the first time I saw it where it's like oh not now here's a question for you guys what do you think is the most impressive aspect of his survival because I have a clear answer what do you mean and the answer

[01:38:49] can't be that he cut his arm off I'm talking about basically the five days up until the arm getting cut off where he was able to maintain right okay there's a very clear answer you think it's peeing into his I think that one's okay I think the moment

[01:39:09] where I really is definitely where I went my brain immediately only because we were just talking about the water and that he's able to stay hydrated by like peeing into his spray pack or whatever yeah I think the moment that makes me truly believe that this

[01:39:23] guy is survivor of the year is when he chooses to make it a no fap 127 hours the moment when he is rewatching the video from the cave now I did completely forget buckle and then he goes like no you forgot I thought he was about to jerk

[01:39:39] off I forgot I was like is there five minute J O seen in this movie I forgot how long it took him to almost jerk off I know he really close and my memory it's like around day two that he to jerk off like no it's so late

[01:39:57] in the game it's like I would think it would be off the table by that right yeah I thought it was too late I thought I thought he should have tried to jerk off earlier that's basically what I do that minute 15 I'm like let's

[01:40:11] get all the gettings right I'm losing well I still got one hand it's crazy that he does it when he's basically near death and it almost feels like in that moment his decision is do I jerk off and die a happy man or do I save

[01:40:29] what little energy I have left to cut my arm off there's the unspoken thing of like this could kill me right I think I think well you know much much like a lot of very smart people will tell you on reddit every

[01:40:41] time you come you lose some of your energy the more power you have right right and I think he realizes I maybe got 10 15 percent left one load would nearly deplete me if I'm gonna know the guy reads his bible I mean better to spill your seat in

[01:40:57] the belly of a whore than wasted in blue john canyon as I so often repeat of course of course so it is yeah it is a crime yeah and now we're gonna resume the episode it's uh two days later so we're on Monday now is that right

[01:41:19] yeah yeah okay it's actually well really no it's Tuesday morning so Ben just cut out all the audio we kept running especially the stuff where we were sleeping but now the four of us are back together again well and of course we had the we did have

[01:41:35] a quick discussion before I left of you know we have mentioned that he had two separate crews and two separate DPS and yes you know for the most part it's pretty unified but uh I picked I think 29 spots where I could tell that they

[01:41:53] had handed off from one time to another sure and just it's so subtle it's so subtle but I have the eye yeah and visually I knew okay this is so and so or right this is when such and such was handling the camera and

[01:42:11] and and I just so I had the list no I was just gonna say just to clarify the three of us went to sleep and then while we were sleeping Sean got back on his microphone and just I'm an early riser a six hour run explaining

[01:42:25] all the moments that he noticed the pass off happening and poorly explaining them as well because you're an amateur it's the part where they're in a cave yeah you can see the wall of the cave he's like wanting to get out he's hating being in there the

[01:42:43] the man is looking at his own arm even right you should have been able to get through all that in three hours but it took you six because you were you were stammering you were so I kept losing my place yeah I can't read my own writing

[01:43:01] a lot of that is what is this say it's dark I mean yeah you know look I one thing Griff I don't know if you know there's two cinematographers as Sean mentioned Anthony Dodd Mantle who is Danny Boyle's big collaborator at that point

[01:43:17] the other guy is called Enrique Chediak and he is the cinematographer on 28 weeks later oh interesting so this film had the DPs of both 28 days and 28 weeks they combined forces that's all that's cool I talked about this in our Slumdog episode but I

[01:43:37] have to assume a similar approach is taken on this movie but the thing that I find so interesting about Dodd Mantle and Boyle their work in this period and it is just pretty wild watching this and thinking that this movie is coming out less than 10 years after

[01:43:57] 28 days later and 28 days later looks like it was shot on Fruit by the Foot and this is almost like strikingly detail like you see every speck of sweat on his hat you see every bead of sweat like the image could not be more clear but there's this

[01:44:13] thing Sean that Boyle talked about when they were experimenting with different digital video cameras for Slumdog Millionaire where Boyle was like is there any reason the camera needs to be in the shape of a camera and they were like what are you saying

[01:44:27] and he was like well you build it like a camera with these dimensions because that's what we're used to cameras looking like but inside of that the guts are like there's a lens connected to a sensor connected to a battery right and they were like

[01:44:39] yeah and he's like so can we just take the panels off and disassemble this so that he can put most of it in a backpack and Anthony Dodd Mantle can basically hold the lens and you feel it

[01:44:53] in this movie I think where it's like they have to get into really tight spaces they have to move around really fast and he was just like there's no reason for this guy to have a fucking thing on his shoulder

[01:45:03] why are we pretending that a camera needs to look like this now I'm so fucking stupid like I would never think about anything like that ever that is so smart yeah it's so fucking cool you insist that cameras have like big Mickey

[01:45:17] Mouse ears to keep the reels in to this day like they have to have that you hide snacks in there on set and the megaphone I'm yelling at you isn't doing anything like I'm I'm like I can use the mic if I want it but I just

[01:45:35] I don't know tradition used to mean something in this town okay so what do we before we talk about the amputation is there anything else you guys want to highlight I love all the stuff with the water just because it feels like such

[01:45:51] like a relief and then an instant danger like I like how you're like okay finally this guy's getting rained on and then like when there's the waterfall thing it feels very visceral I don't know that's interesting that flight of fancy where the rain

[01:46:03] like allows him to escape and everything and then it's like you see that it's like a dream sequence like but there's such an elegant arc to that from going like oh this is a salvation to going like this is making the situation so

[01:46:15] much worse to the moment where you clock this is all in his head none of this happens he's dreaming about water right yeah I like the part where the camera moves out of the canyon over to his car and he imagines the gatorade and then

[01:46:33] that's awesome but the movement of it because I feel like that really captures like kind of how your mind could do that like if you go on a trip and you realize at the airport like oh fuck at my coffee table is whatever I left behind this

[01:46:49] is where I left my keys when the door locks behind you you immediately remember seeing your keys on the counter the frustration of the shittier knife what he realizes of just like which is a real part of the story and like couldn't happen any other way

[01:47:05] which is really crazy like that this guy who is about this life in such a major way doesn't have good gear for something so like essential like just like if you if this is your lifestyle and you are like rock climber mountain man like knows

[01:47:27] all the secret paths it's like you've got a decent knife like that's gotta be true for 99% of these people but it's just like I came with a fucking free flashlight like a stocking stuffer from my mom and I was like whatever the knife works

[01:47:41] right the series of like I mean he says he has a Swiss army knife but he can't reach it I think right? No don't you see him leaving it like he doesn't pick it up maybe you're right isn't that right at the start of the movie

[01:47:51] like you see him put down like have a Swiss army knife and he doesn't grab it yeah or something like that it's such a horrible detail that it's like all the little things that he left behind where it's like well this doesn't matter which that

[01:48:05] like no matter what like you totally can relate to just that oh yeah well whatever it'll be fine I don't need this well just the idea that this is like this fucking tool is like so dull that not only does he need to cut

[01:48:21] his own arm off but he has to spend like an hour or two sharpening it against the rocks in preparation to cut his own arm off when he's been chipping at the rock forever I really relate to his hand hurting from doing it

[01:48:35] then when he's been chipping at it and he has the boat where he's like I actually think that I have been making myself more stuck like which makes sense right that it's like my arm was holding it out against so like by decreasing the amount of surface area

[01:48:53] that was touching the rock I let it roll in tighter and that you would not think of that until you had been doing it for three days yes just on a storytelling perspective he's like so good at just like the markers like the

[01:49:11] time markers in this movie of like what's the first thing you do you take out your thing you try to like chip the rock away right which works as such a good establishing it's going to be a long process but we're you know we're here

[01:49:23] but you're like I can get this done and it establishes this shitty tool so well you know you get the close up of it his finger running against it okay it doesn't even cut his finger you see him chipping at it it doesn't work and then

[01:49:35] basically like minute 30 is him trying to cut his arm making a few like scrapes basically and giving up an hour in is he just jams it straight into his arm like I just need to fucking do this and then you have like 10 to 15 minutes

[01:49:55] right of him then trying to figure out what to do from there the fucking you already invoked it I mean should we just get to the gnarliness of the arm yeah okay so do you want to know how they did it yeah

[01:50:15] okay so one thing that I think is incredible that Danny Boyle says is the real rescue services guys eventually did go get his arm they like lifted the boulder and got it and they showed him a photo of what it looked like

[01:50:29] and he said it literally looked like when the guy gets flattened by a steamroller in Who Framed Roger Rabbit like it was flat like a pancake wow like you know because it just got stuck under the rock obviously so just funny to think he was like

[01:50:45] and if we had ever shown any image like that audiences would just laugh it would just look too ridiculous like that's what the real thing looked like but yeah they built a prosthetic arm they took a mold of his arm they filled it with muscles, veins, tendons

[01:50:59] and a bone and they attached it at his shoulder and you know figured out this complicated way for him to sort of arrange himself so his real arm is being held in place and the fake arm is there

[01:51:13] and then they gave him the knife and they were like okay cut your arm off like it's gonna take you a while and he started hacking away at this fake arm and Franco says that's the take they use right like the reactions are real because he doesn't know

[01:51:27] how realistic this thing is and the fact that he's actually gonna have to go through it layer by layer the amount of blood that's gonna come out and all of that but it's visceral because you feel like you know you feel like okay

[01:51:39] as we talked about like maybe I could get my mind to the place where I'm gonna start doing it would I know to break the bones first I guess I've got a lot of time to think about it but the thing you don't account for is

[01:51:51] like alright well the you know it's pretty much dead this part of your body you turn a head at it for a long time but the way they use the score when he hits the nerve that is for me it is the thing that has stuck

[01:52:09] with me about this film I almost don't go a day without thinking about it yeah it is like touching the fucking wire you know and it's like it zaps him and it zaps him again and he goes I gotta fucking do it I gotta just like

[01:52:27] do this thing that is going to hurt so much and I gotta do it so fast it's a bandaid it's like lighting your arm on fire it's like putting your arm into lava is how he describes it the cutting the nerves

[01:52:43] as both of you said you go to see this movie and you're like how gnarly is this gonna be when's he gonna do it how insane is this gonna be how long is this gonna take one of the craziest aspects of the real story

[01:52:55] is like it's not like he just went slice or I'm off this is like multiple hours of his life having to methodically continue carving so you're like how is this gonna play out how grotesque is this gonna be and then far and away the most visceral

[01:53:13] aspect of it is Danny Bull just hitting on like oh it should make a buzzing sound like you're playing Operation yeah basically nothing is gonna affect the audience more than like a sound music cue that invokes the feeling of hitting the nerve directly

[01:53:29] and that sense of like there's no way but through this and it's not gonna get any better yeah that's right it's more than anything you see yeah right nothing you see is really that bad right like I mean I just mean in terms of gore you know

[01:53:45] in terms of nastiness like it's not nice but it's less gory than Evil Dead it's just sort of this bloody sight it's like an arm covered in blood and he's you know it's horrible but it's all in the sensory parts of the movie

[01:54:01] and if you're in a theater it's that you're locked in with it obviously like that you just you know it's harder to look away the screen is filling your vision and I mean I think he plays it so well like Ralston says like I like

[01:54:17] that he's smiling because that's how I felt because I was like finally accomplishing something like as much as I felt like insane and I was in so much pain I was at least doing something for the first time in days basically yeah instead of just waiting and being

[01:54:35] like what yeah that's right yeah it's a relief in a way and it's interesting like obviously and then just the idea of him then like showing up in front of a bunch of like you know like a Utah family being like I cut off my arm

[01:54:53] it's like fucking it's like Dutch tourists or something right? yes that's what it is but I remember that that's what I remember from the theater of like him getting out and like seeing people and like him you know like

[01:55:07] first he drinks all the muddy water which is so right right fucked up it is yeah it's the nastiest looking water they do a great job I think I had forgotten how much of a journey he has to like just get back out to where he

[01:55:21] could run into someone after having cut off his arm after having been trapped for five days um and then it's like no you still have to like do your hike in reverse six miles uh that's so fucked up right yeah

[01:55:37] I don't want to walk that under the best circumstances no no that's the wildest thing uh have any of you watched the alternate ending for this movie? no what's the alternate ending? I did not know this existed I bought the film on iTunes

[01:55:53] it had a bunch of deleted scenes including a 22 minute alternate ending which I bring up now because it starts basically at the moment where he successfully gets through the arm and is freed from the cave sure at that point it's mostly

[01:56:09] playing the same but there are some editing choices it spends more time on sort of the gap between when he gets out of the crack and when he finds the Swedish family you see more of his like journey in between but with the Sigurd Rós song

[01:56:25] starting to play and everything and he sort of passes out less it gets a little less dreamlike a little less quickly and then once he's rescued it starts cross cutting with the Swedish family on TV talking about discovering him and this movie basically had shot scripted edited

[01:56:49] the Danny Boyle version of the cast away ending in which rather than it immediately going to this sort of montage coda wrap up you it's all a little montage but it's more him landing him doing the press conferences him seeing his family

[01:57:05] again for the first time he's in the hospital with his mom his mom goes like I'll kill you if you ever go without telling us where you're going you see you know it's sped up but you see all the steps of everything and then he

[01:57:17] goes to his sister's wedding thus justifying why Lizzie Kaplan is only in two isolated shots of this movie there's an actual scene where they go to the wedding and Treat Williams says like this is the greatest day you could ever hope

[01:57:33] for not only am I gaining a new son in my family but we got our previous son back and they cut to Franco and he just kind of looks empty and then there's a scene where he and Lizzie Kaplan play chopsticks together on the piano and there's

[01:57:47] like something kind of unspoken in him he leaves the wedding he gets in his car he drives to Clement's posy and then she talks to him they do like the Helen Hunt ending and he basically they're having a nice sort of catch up she's so

[01:58:03] excited to see him I saw the story on the news uh offers him a drink they go out back they're talking she mentions that she broke up with the guy that she clearly had been dating after him he sees his like window of opportunity

[01:58:17] he tells her I had this vision when I was in there I saw the small child and she went was it you and he said no it was mine and I realized that's what I want my future son and he looks at her and he sees it on

[01:58:31] her face she plays this moment incredibly and then he goes that's not your kid is it and she goes no it's not going to be my kid right right right and then she says to him like every single person who loves you is constantly like hurting themselves

[01:58:51] right you you kind of need to I wish you all the best but you need to figure your shit out there's no going back here it's a punishment to care about you right and the ending is not perfectly executed I think Franco weirdly kind of

[01:59:05] fucks up the scene despite the fact that she's playing it well but then he still does the exact same coda it then goes from that to him coming out of the pool the shot of seeing both the actors playing his family and friends and the real family and

[01:59:19] friends and then saying like three years later Aaron found his calling the prophecy came true he got married and had a kid uh right can I tell you what Danny Boyle's take is that's why he cut all that out he was like it's a good ending

[01:59:33] it's all done well like you know it's a very Hollywood ending and he was just like the day before the final cut was due we were just like this just doesn't make any sense for the movie we made like the movie is fairly light and experimental

[01:59:47] this is like a pretty traditional ending the movie just needs to punch out is how he puts it I agree I mean it just needed to be like him saying I need help and like you're done it sounds like good scenes but you're not in the world

[02:00:01] seeing him experience like interactions with other people except like in his mind or this very brief thing in the hike feels like you just would be entering a different movie for all of that what did you think of it when you watched it Griffin? It does feel

[02:00:13] a little bit like that it's weird I mean the movie itself is only 90 minutes long basically which is nice we talked about this in our train spotting episode but Boyle's incredibly good at knowing basically like if I'm making a movie that's going to be this high octane

[02:00:29] this difficult he basically does what he calls the 90 minute blood pact of like this movie has to be out of here in 90 minutes you cannot subject people to this shit for longer than that um yeah I think you know you're right that's the fundamental issue probably

[02:00:47] is just that it feels like it's out of a different movie it feels kind of jarring and especially because the alternate ending is presented in the context of it transitioning from him in the cave to this you're not just watching these scenes

[02:01:01] in isolation you're watching the lead up to it it does suddenly feel like a totally different thing even when we see scenes from his life in his memory they're so dream like and feel like memories like they're these pieces they're just like his POV or something like

[02:01:17] they're not you know uh they're not traditional like scenes from a film that you watch and so it does just feel like it that would be out of place although it all sounds kind of good when something like cast away commits to doing like 45 minutes

[02:01:31] to an hour of once he gets back on land whereas this it's like bull wants to do all of this but do it in 10 minutes and more and more interaction in the lead up more establishment of like a wider world that this person yes then um prior

[02:01:45] to the stranding I think so that you are so when you return to it it doesn't feel like it's from a different thing it feels like you're like book ending um now that having been said when this movie

[02:01:57] came out and I like this movie a lot I thought it was pretty triumphant I do remember feeling like the ending feels a little too pat it's just it kind of felt like like Danny putting his hand a little too far to say like and here's the lesson

[02:02:11] here's the moral he learned the coda like the the chiron or whatever and the and the like real people on the couch like that him getting out and seeing the family and calling for help and how frantic it feels yeah that he can't talk yeah I need help

[02:02:31] and then like the sort of time lapse that they do to like a helicopter arriving like all of like that had me fucking oh incredible was like and the music for it all of it I was just like going through something serious

[02:02:47] during that when I think it gets to me is when he says to them the Swedish family he's like can one of you run ahead and the mother and the child run ahead and then they find like two other hikers and they run back and they

[02:02:59] hand them their water bottle in this sense of like the further they're tracking the more people there are coming together everyone's giving him the water bottle he's trying not to pass out like all that stuff and him asking them to do it like that's played

[02:03:13] so well to like the fact that he is like a volunteer rescue worker and knows what needs to happen like being established earlier in him doing it in a way that's not aggressive but it is like because it's also very scary obviously to be approached by this

[02:03:29] person like you're a family like you've got your kid with you looks like a guy it looks yes they look terrifying you know and then to be like I'm gonna I'm going to ask for more things like in this way where I'm trying

[02:03:45] to contain myself of like I need you to be fucking moving right now like I'm dying it's so intense dude yes and then the other people helping out it's incredible he's right that basically the movie needs to end within three minutes of that

[02:04:01] like you're not gonna top that feeling Koda it's just well I just like having the final title on screen of like oh don't worry he got married that feels like something where Fox Searchlight is like look if you want to cut out all the emotional shit

[02:04:13] fine but you are not releasing this without telling the audience that this guy got married and had a kid I'm like there needs to be at least a text on screen that says that or else people will riot like you know I'm sorry this is an inspirational ballpill

[02:04:29] he never stopped exploring and now here's real footage of him still going on an expedition climb every mountain yeah yeah yeah good for you is within two to three years of the release of this movie he and that woman are divorced he has another failed

[02:04:43] relationship after this and in the years after this he basically talks about his like whole initial Oprah press tour motivational inspirational figure period he was like I my shit was fucked up and basically when I should have been humbled by that experience

[02:05:01] it instead made me think I was invincible and I was basically in a manic state for like years where I thought nothing could fucking touch me and I could overcome anything understandable understandable this would completely fry your brain like nice to acknowledge it yes that it's such a

[02:05:17] a long term like a prolonged traumatic episode that completely rewires your brain over days and days and then that the recovery from it would be years right and basically it's just it's the mistake of this movie like we we covered the Lorenzo's oil

[02:05:39] on the podcast and I said I couldn't believe the decision that movie makes that other films based on true stories don't make is when they do their end title cards explaining what happened after the movie they specifically word it as at the time

[02:05:55] of the completion of this film yeah so smart they just lock it into here's at the moment that we locked picture this is where things were at we're not claiming this is forever movie stronger I love that movie I think it's so good that

[02:06:11] you know is a story about a couple that stays together and it ends with them being together and it you know they got divorced like two years later because like this shit fucks you up so bad like them now the movie feels a little odd Wikipedia page

[02:06:27] reality but it does feel like ending with a real shot of Aaron Ralston with his wife and kid and then a real shot of him continue to explore and then the movies like and look everything was perfect he figured out his home life and it didn't stop

[02:06:41] his thirst for adventure and then this guy by his own admission like two years later was like I do not know how to relate to people and it is insane that I kept on going out into the face of danger alright I want to say before

[02:06:53] we play the box office game I want to say one more thing about this movie that's interesting please Aaron Ralston loves fish that may not shock you to hear it the band fish they make fun of it for him in the cave and they really he really wanted

[02:07:09] to end the movie to end with a fish song and Danny Boyle said like listen out of respect for him I listened to fish endlessly continually like try clearly Danny Boyle who clearly has fairly like hip taste in music and like has these

[02:07:27] great soundtracks and eclectic as well goes for all kinds of different 100% and he's just clearly like immersing himself in fish and it's just like there's got to be some way for me to get on board with this right at the end of the day he was like I

[02:07:45] can't I can't do it I can't listen to this anymore I can't put it in the movie yeah and so they did not put fish in the movie do you know what song he wanted to end it with no he did not say what song he

[02:07:59] wanted to it was it was the cover of the 2001 theme weirdly um no farmhouse I mean I I yeah I need help I just love the idea of Danny Boyle we have clusterflies isn't you know where they're like you know in the post production like it's like what

[02:08:29] why is Danny in that room he's like he's listening to fish he's doing it all day he just yeah just he's just trying he's bouncing around um it is funny the the opening song in this film that plays over the opening sequence where it's all

[02:08:45] the kind of like crazy Boyle quick cutting him getting ready to go it's called never hear surf music again by a band called free yes if I had to write a parody of a song that Danny Boyle would choose to put in the soundtrack

[02:08:59] of one of his films the opening lyrics which you hear very clearly are there must be some fucking chemical that makes us different from animals take it if it makes you numb take it if it makes you come take it if it makes

[02:09:11] you make it perfect that just feels like every one of his movies has a song that has that attitude that basically screams its lyrics at you yeah the gas it is so soon into the film that you're thinking about being made to come by a chemical and

[02:09:29] and I did think like there were moments where I was like is this way cheesier than I remembered I thought that I like this and it's like yeah it is a little bit like there's stuff that just are you know immediately feels sort of dated like but

[02:09:43] I don't know on the whole it works no I think it totally works and also at this point it's basically a period piece it's like a mid 2000s vibe this guy and he feels right out of it like it feels absolutely accurate to that

[02:09:55] kind of a guy from that like from about 20 years ago which is crazy to think about this film came out did the classic festival thing premiered at Telluride went to Toronto had that word of mouth thing that was crucial right like all the critics are like

[02:10:13] pulled it off like you know I feel like all the reviews which were glowing were basically like the things compelling like what can I tell you you know I get hats off to Danny Boyle but then Griffin as you say there's this parallel thing happening

[02:10:27] where it's also like and you won't believe it people are screaming you know the Princess of Wales theater in Toronto you know there's a doctor on call because it's so intense and I was anxious about seeing this movie I was like what the

[02:10:41] fuck like how awful is this gonna be and you know I put people off they went full William Castle the tingler yeah in their like selling of the movie and basically the first screening was at Telluride and two people fainted it's the altitude you know

[02:10:59] but Fox source like was like we're capitalizing on this and they just decided to like commit to it wholly and then it just sort of escalated like it started it felt like it became a self-fulfilling prophecy but there was another screening maybe

[02:11:15] at Toronto where someone had to be taken out in a gurney like it did almost feel like matinee style theater someone's arm fell off people vomited and then like in the screening but then people were writing articles someone thought about jerking off but then didn't so actually

[02:11:31] that was not a problem they held back like people are writing articles like saying it as like almost the challenge of I think it was more that yes by the way guys right right to blank check if you just as a general question have

[02:11:47] you tried to jerk off to the scene where he tries to jerk off and only tried I don't want to hear if you did it I just want to hear if you thought don't need to know that's your personal business I'm not being invasive and follow up

[02:12:01] question follow up question did you try to jerk off to our discussion of that scene no sure right yeah fantasy within a fantasy I Griffin I think it was more the feverish awards bloggers that were focused because yes the advertising was very triumphant

[02:12:19] true story right like very heavy on the like you can well my god the human spirit blah blah blah like they were they were hitting that too the Huffington Post wrote that in an article November 2010 the film has gotten audiences fainting vomiting and worse in numbers unseen

[02:12:37] since the exorcist and the movie has not even hit theaters yet that was sort of like the thing that yes a lot of more the Oscar bloggers and whatever we're saying the thing I do remember that felt like the moment where they just

[02:12:49] made their decision and fucked it up was at a certain point Fox search light started distributing shirts that said I survived 127 hours sure right yes they did that that was like swag that they sent out that felt like they're trying to own it now and it it

[02:13:11] did become what you're talking about where I think a lot of people went like oh if it's that fucked up then I don't want to watch it it's a roller coaster no it's a movie it's a movie it's 95 minutes he

[02:13:23] he cuts his arm off there's some blood it's like you could see this in an episode of it's visceral like it's not crazy it's visceral it's intense but I mean yeah the arm cutting is less than five minutes of the movie he shouts to ER

[02:13:37] I mean hey you know I saw some fucked up fucked up stuff on ER when I was a kid the movie made its budget back domestically 18 million dollars it made another 40 world you know so 60 million was its take like you know whatever I remember Griffin that

[02:13:55] when it got a bunch of Oscar nominations being a little surprised like we all figured Franco was getting in there when it got like it snuck into best picture and it got a screenplay nomination that was the first year of the 10 yeah

[02:14:09] or maybe the second year I think no it's the second year of the 10 oh you're right oh 9 is the second but yes it went from being like this movie is a juggernaut he's gonna get best director easily to then it feeling like it waned a little bit

[02:14:23] and then it kind of surged a tad at the last minute people liked it voters were generally moved by it yes but obviously didn't win anything yeah at the Oscars it was a big Oscar year for whatever let's do the box office game

[02:14:43] it's just a great box office game Griffin this film came out November 5th 2010 limited release what was the widest it went the widest it ever went was it got to about a thousand screens in late January so that's like I think when the best picture nomination comes in

[02:15:05] it's very classic searchlight slow build release it ended up at like 15 18 which like if you put it in perspective is a good number for a guy cuts his arm off movie but I think they had this moment where they were like is this thing going to cross over

[02:15:23] yeah is this thing going to make whatever 50 60 I don't know but it didn't Griffin number one at the box office it's new it's an animated film November 2010 two major stars above the title I feel like actually you know what five big stars above the title including

[02:15:45] one of you know Sean's Sean's roastmaster friend Jonah Hill is this the movie mastermind the movie is not called mastermind what's it called oh I always get the title wrong it's called Megamind I feel like this is a forgotten film I feel like no one

[02:16:07] talks about this like brief like it's a paramount animated film Dreamworks yeah because there were those years where Dreamworks kept on changing distributors some past episode this was relitigated by our listeners some past episode Megamind came up and you and I both said fuck Megamind despite not having

[02:16:27] seen it we apparently had a lot of ire for Megamind I watched it over a kid's shoulder at an auto shop when I like hit you know like when I had a flat and I had to like sit for an hour while they changed my tire or something

[02:16:45] when I saw Megamind Sean have you seen Megamind haven't seen Megamind although I am now there's so many of these animated films that I didn't watch that I am just at the very very very beginning of starting to see some of them via

[02:17:01] my son which I have always been excited for that I like didn't feel a lot of pressure to watch these movies even if I thought they might be good because it's just like oh I just walk in and it's like okay dudes watching like Madagascar

[02:17:19] it's like okay great like I'll do that if I had seen it you know I watched a scene from the penguins of Madagascar with my daughter the other day and I was like this shit's funny like Vera Herzog was in it yeah like there were

[02:17:35] gags there was a lot of sort of visual humor was working for me I saw I watched a little bit of Sing 2 the other day hey they're singing some good songs David just don't get me started on the different timelines of the Madagascar franchise when we're

[02:17:55] already 120 hours in that's what I'm saying I said don't get me started well I'm not trying to now number one of the box office Mega Mind I just want to say I feel like has a weird cult following with the generation that saw that at the right

[02:18:11] age and I feel like in particular the Jonah Hill character has a lot of life as a meme now I feel like I see the face of the Jonah Hill Mega Mind character getting circulated online a lot I think Despicable Me ate it's lunch it did yeah

[02:18:29] that's what happened Mega Mind had no minions it didn't have anyone cute so while the movie may be good better than Despicable Me but it did not have that thing Sean you are not going to believe what I'm about to tell you

[02:18:47] you are correct that Mega Mind had no minions but it did in fact have David Cross playing one singular character named minion and this was their I can picture fatal robot monkey with a fish bowl head this was their fatal mistake they said stop at one

[02:19:05] we don't need multiple minions just one yeah implying the existence of many there's also Monsters vs. Aliens I feel like post Incredibles there were a lot of these throwback comic book sort of we're going from the perspective of this villain largely right I don't know

[02:19:29] Despicable Me and Mega Mind are like we're following and making them a sympathetic character they're actually not that bad and there's something worse without having seen either one of them this is my impression of them the pitch on Mega Mind was Mega Mind was developed by Ben Stiller

[02:19:47] to star him and Robert Downey Jr. and the idea was I will play the world's worst super villain maybe that was the Downey part but he ends up successfully killing his arch nemesis the Superman character and then it's this guy having an emotional crisis when he doesn't

[02:20:07] know what to do with himself through like four years of development neither of those guys were involved in the movie and the superhero never dies and it's just about him retiring for a bit and it very much became a he's maybe not all that bad movie yeah

[02:20:23] yeah that okay that tracks anyway made $150 million at the US box office which was not a flop by any means right number two Griffin is also new this week it is an acidic comedy starring an actor you literally just mentioned Due Date it's Due Date with RDJ

[02:20:45] and Zach Galifianakis and a dog defend thoroughly Sean do you have Due Date thoughts? yeah I think I didn't see it good thought good thinking and I feel like there was some trailer moment that I like went to quote immediately upon it being mentioned

[02:21:07] but is not coming to mind but some line or something what was the big line in the trailer? yeah wasn't there like a big quote from the trailer of like Galifianakis has a gun or something I don't know there's definitely something with a gun they're guns

[02:21:26] I remember that line good jokes Dianne Jr. says I hate you on a cellular level which I've always thought is a good insult I think he feeds his dog a waffle and the dog sneezes and then he says he's allergic to waffles I think that happens

[02:21:46] I don't know once again I like this movie David what's number three at the box office? number three at the box office is also new this week I just want to point out all these films are opening pretty well I think Due Date was seen as like a

[02:21:58] come down from The Hangover it made a hundred million dollars it was open in 32 this is a serious effort from a director who had not been taken seriously it's his sort of Oscar play it doesn't work and then what happens to him after this?

[02:22:18] he goes back to silly bullshit he goes back to making the stuff he's always made to great financial success and he remains one of the most powerful and important people in Hollywood it's not Michael Bay, it's not McG no bigger than that, mogul status mogul status?

[02:22:38] there's nobody like this and there's no movie like this there's nobody like this and there's no movie like this? it's a really weird it's a is it for colored girls? it's for colored girls by Tyler Perry it's a hard movie what if someone who is an undeniably

[02:22:58] commercial filmmaker but makes a very specific kind of movie tried to adapt an incredibly sensitive and incredibly complicated theatrical work that is like one of the towering pieces of African American theater from the 70s with an all star cast with an all star cast and mounted for

[02:23:22] Oscar success and you watch it and you're like, oh it's bad I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that everyone briefly was sort of like I don't know, maybe Tyler Perry's got an Oscar movie in him the moment that movie was announced and with that cast

[02:23:40] and the best picture field had expanded to ten I remember so many people being like, well that'll get in as the tenth nominee right with ten nominees there's room for that and then everyone saw it and no one thought about it ever again

[02:23:54] God bless him, he took on this really difficult work, it's a great play and he opened it to 20 billion dollars I don't know it's kind of crazy to think about that that movie played that big but it didn't work, I don't know what a time

[02:24:12] he never tries anything like that he was like, forget it, I won't do that again although now he's doing a World War II movie sure, yeah I don't know he's still working he's only in his early 50s he's got a style those TV shows are the most insane

[02:24:34] yes the TV shows are the craziest what's the show? you gotta say what the show is there's two the oval office one or whatever the oval yeah, the oval that one's wild there's 91 episodes of that show that is one of, I want to count it

[02:24:56] nine shows that he currently has on the air he has nine shows presently running but he is the writer and director of every single episode correct, let's be clear that is his claim he is the credited writer and director on each individual episode

[02:25:12] of nine currently running TV shows the oval, sisters bra assisted living some of them he's actually finally stepped back from, I think he's about to buy BET it seems like that's about to happen Tyler Perry's Young Dylan which is apparently a Nickelodeon show

[02:25:32] I don't know who Old Dylan is it feels like a Young Sheldon without Sheldon having existed first I don't know, sounds pretty good I have a joke now where I call the Big Bang Theory Old Sheldon he's old you ever seen Old Sheldon? he's getting up there

[02:25:52] number four at the box office Griffin is a solid action comedy hit with a bunch of movie stars in it 2010 it gets a sequel it's got 200 million worldwide it's Red is it kind of the last Willis vehicle that isn't like Glass, where he's only a quasi lead

[02:26:20] I think that's the last one that feels kind of legitimate but it was also that era where suddenly movies need to have six stars instead of one star he is the guy in it he did Die Hard 5 after that I know he did Looper oh yeah, Looper

[02:26:42] that's the year Looper and Moonrise are his two final great performances is Red good? Red's okay Red's super okay it seems like I would watch it I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen it I'll say this though, Red 2 you're like, maybe I undervalue Red

[02:27:02] it's one of those movies where you watch Red 2 and you're like maybe Red was a little harder to pull off I should give them a little more credit they really had something with Red they have since lost it the Red 2 fans coming for him oh god, those Red 2

[02:27:22] fans are crazy they're like, Mary Louise Parker Anthony Hopkins showed up for this one okay, number 5 at the box office because I need to go to bed, my god Griff, it's November 5th, the weekend before was Halloween it was our big Halloween movie it's dropped 4 spots

[02:27:44] it's dropped 4 spots since Halloween it's not a Saw? it is a Saw which Saw is it? is this is this final chapter? is this 3D or is there one more? no, it is Saw 3D the final chapter that's technically 7? Saw 7 where the poster

[02:28:10] and I remember this well because I was like what is going on with this franchise the poster is like Jigsaw being built by a big scaffolding do you remember this? they should not have done that I remember thinking that was a bad idea I was like

[02:28:30] guys, Jigsaw is not nice we should not make him bigger, we shouldn't rebuild him if he's a part that's a good thing I remember being really frustrated you would see the poster for the new Saw and it would be a bunch of blades in an operating theater

[02:28:52] and you'd be like, yeah, okay, sure they're still doing that and you're seeing this poster that's like a scaffolding the size of, it's going to launch a Saturn rocket wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait what happened? I remember being mad at Obama during that

[02:29:10] you were mad, yeah, sure because he had just come into office and you're like, what the fuck, Jigsaw is supposed to be gone not back not back and bigger than ever yeah, that pissed me off so that is the final Saw for a while and then they

[02:29:28] tried to revive it with Jigsaw and that didn't work and then they tried again with Spiral and that kind of didn't work and now Saw X is on the way this year is essentially the third time to try to reboot Saw since 2010 can we sort of catch

[02:29:46] yeah, yeah some other movies, Paranormal Activity 2 which is kind of eating Saw's lunch, you know, that's like the new thing you've got Jackass 3D which is a wonderful film perfect film great American film you've got Secretariat, which is one of those movies that no one remembers but actually

[02:30:06] made like 60 million dollars actually kicked ass yeah actually fucking showed everyone who's boss not unlike its namesake it was kind of the Secretariat of movies doing laps around all the movies you do remember yeah like, have you seen Secretariat Griffin? I've never seen Secretariat

[02:30:30] no, no, no, I should've I should've, yeah I saw Seabiscuit, that was enough for me yeah it's Malkovich and Diane Lane yeah, I'm gonna post this in the chat but there's one production still of Secretariat that I love and have never forgotten hold on

[02:30:54] I'll post for you guys but keep going through the box office yeah, and then let's see, Hereafter, Clint Eastwood's bizarre tsunami psychic movie Hereafter starring Matt Damon one of those movies he just low-key made in between giant hits where you're like, huh?

[02:31:14] what? and Clint's like, I don't know enjoy it if you like it, I guess look, if you're busy, you're busy my favorite thing is they interviewed Peter Morgan who wrote it and they were like, Hereafter was kind of a weird one

[02:31:28] and he was like, that was, I submitted a first draft and then the next thing I was told was like Matt Damon's in it, Clint, start shooting next weekend I didn't even fucking revise it Clint just read that and was like, sure let's do this

[02:31:44] tsunamis, psychics, I love it that one take only philosophy extended to the script this time yeah and number 10 of the box office, The Social Network oh sure the great film of 2010 that's it Griff, okay let's see what this little picture you've sent me

[02:32:06] this is funny, give me credit it was worth it I'm looking at this Secretariat photo and I'm enjoying it I just remember seeing this photo and thinking to myself oh, I'm gonna see that and here we are 13 years later I have made no progress in watching Secretariat

[02:32:24] I see that photo and I go oh man, a bee flying by would have a field day with either of their mouths alright, we'll make sure Marie tweets this photo out it's a good photo Randall Wallace's Secretariat, I think is it the last movie he ever directed?

[02:32:44] no, he made Heaven is for Real oh fuck, Heaven is for Real about Burpo remember? what was his name, Colleen Burpo? What was his name, Colton Burpo? Todd Burpo is the dad and Colton Burpo is the kid who went to heaven incredible family an incredible family the Burpos

[02:33:06] that's how God tests you yes I'm gonna prove that Heaven is real but only to a family named Burpo so you sort of can't take it seriously can't take it seriously Sean Flagrant Ones, Hollywood Handbook Flagrant Ones, Hollywood Handbook yeah, check that stuff out

[02:33:26] Hollywood Handbook is a podcast, subscribe to it anywhere Flagrant Ones is the name of our Patreon where we have that show and a basketball show and the pro version and Carl is playing video games live streaming there's more stuff there for you and thanks for having me guys

[02:33:44] Flagrant Ones is my favorite podcast basically it's a weekly joy yeah, and you're one of those people where I feel like recently more and more you've started watching movies along with the podcast and I always get so excited when you text your movie thoughts to me

[02:34:02] oh well, I appreciate that I feel licensed to do that but hopefully I'm glad to hear it's not annoying but yes, I often, I think like when you were doing the Fosse stuff I watched Staradian and was like basically live texting you throughout the entire experience

[02:34:18] but I loved it and I loved listening to it reminds me of a good Eric Roberts thing after this reminds me of a good Eric Roberts thing after this but yes I love getting your movie takes I love when you text me non-repeatable anecdotes

[02:34:34] about people involved in movies yeah well, and as we yes I like that too and occasionally I have those, I like to collect those if I can and I have an Eric Roberts one for you too so we'll swap Eric Roberts stories great, great, great

[02:34:54] thank you for coming on and thank you all for listening and of course thank you most of all to my parents and siblings this is what Ben told me to do in the outro I am selling Ben off the river he sent me a DM that said

[02:35:10] thank your parents and siblings in the outro so thank you to Peter Newman Antonia Dauphin, Romilly Newman and James Newman this ordeal of recording over 125 hours has really made me appreciate them and realize I should spend less time podcasting and more time playing chopsticks with my family

[02:35:34] thank you all for listening too bad, gotta get your Steve Jobs Blu-ray we're going straight into it please remember to rate, review and subscribe thank you to Marie Barty for our social media helping to produce the show JJ Birch for our research

[02:35:52] Layne Montgomery and The Great American Elle AJ McKeon Alex Barron for our editing Pat Reynolds Joe Bowen for our artwork you can go to BlankCheckPod.com for some links to some real nerdy shit including our Patreon Blank Check special features where we do franchise commentaries

[02:36:12] and other bonus episodes such as Danny Boyle's Olympic ceremony, his opening ceremony which will be coming soon to the Patreon if you want to listen along to that Ben sent me another private message that said I now drink piss

[02:36:24] I don't have piss but I have urine colored kombucha I'll drink while doing this outro tune in next week for Trance, one of the most normal movies ever made yeah, that's a chill one returning guest Nia DaCosta, the great Nia DaCosta on for that episode good ep

[02:36:42] it's a good ep and as always Ben, I realize we came in two hours short of our goal run time so I need to filibuster for the remaining two hours, okay? great so producer Ben aka the Ben Ducer