1941 with Mike Mitchell & Nick Wiger

[00:00:22] Blank Check, the most explosive podcast ever made. Wait, that's what you did? Okay, so here's the thing. Is that the tagline or something? I was digging through all the trailers and the posters last night, and there was one I was trying to find that I can't quite locate, but all of the trailers kept using these taglines that are like, the most explosive comedy spectacular in history. I just know a comedy spectacular. This is the thing. That's the tagline I know from the big poster. One of the advertising materials I saw combined the two.

[00:00:50] Because a lot of the trailers kept on saying the most explosive movie ever made, and the posters keep saying a comedy spectacular, and one of them combined it, and it speaks to the inherent issues with this movie. That their selling of it was, this is so funny and so big. I mean, that's the movie at large, but okay. But they were just saying that as a statement and being like, don't you want to see a movie that's really loud and expensive and has jokes in it? And you're like, what's it about? And they're like, don't worry about that. Uh-huh.

[00:01:18] The most, it's the most movie. What about this one? This one. Soon the screen will be bombarded by the most explosive barrage of, and it looks like the word shit in Japanese. Correct. Ever filmed. Mm-hmm. So again, it's just like, right, like, most. Most. Screen filled. Yes. There won't be a dull second. No, and this is one of those classic cases of most equaling best. Uh, yes, exactly. That's, that's, I mean, that's the story of 1941. Yes.

[00:01:48] It's the most movie ever made. And we all agree that it's probably the, the great American film. He took 10 minutes to do this. Yes, please. I did not take 10 minutes. It's all excess. It's, it's, it's spectacle. Like it, it at least delivers on spectacle. But I, my, my question for you is, did you consciously avoid a quote from the movie because you couldn't find a line of dialogue that didn't have an Asian slur? Nick, there was a quote on the IMDb page I was close to, and then I realized it had an African-American slur in it.

[00:02:17] Oh, very good. I think there are very few quotes from this movie. There are very few distinctive lines that don't have something. I don't think there are, I don't think there are really a lot of distinctive lines, period. I didn't say, I didn't say memorable. I said distinctive. I was just like, what are you even looking for? I don't really know what the like killer line from 1941 is. I was looking, I was looking for this one statement, but it speaks to how this movie had like six similar taglines that were used in alternation, all of which are just trying to get the same

[00:02:46] point across, which was big and funny, expensive. There's the Aykroyd monologue, but there's nothing in that that really couldn't like, like I can even remember specifically, you know, like when he's on the line of the up on the tank and he's trying to calm everyone down during the, you know, zoot suit riot. Well, I can barely understand what he's saying during that. Yeah. Like screaming at the top of his lungs. Just his weird, like fast autistic computer speak, right? It's like the most extreme version of,

[00:03:14] I'm dating, I'm in a tank and I'm shooting at you. Everyone is acting. Like his like used car salesmanship. Yeah. Every line has the intensity of Christopher Lloyd and the Addams family. Just like everyone is just shouting everything. Here's a fun question I thought of while watching this film last night. If you, if you were talking to someone who had seen this, but had no frame of reference

[00:03:38] for Dan Aykroyd as a person, how would you describe to them who Dan Aykroyd plays in this movie? He is first billed. I know it's because of alphabetical, but his face is big on the poster. He's one of the people the movie was sold on. He's a huge fucking star at this moment. Yeah, sure. I don't think you could explain to someone what his character does in this movie in a way that really clarifies who he was amidst the 80 characters. It's hard to even know his function in the plot. Right.

[00:04:08] Like exactly. Like he's. The closest you could say is like there's a 10 minute stretch where he's like concussed and is doing weird shit. But you're like, that could describe almost any character in this movie during any 10 minute stretch. He's kind of a voice of reason. Kind of? Sort of. At moments. Amongst the various people who are going crazy. Right? Yes, but that's also. Once again, you're describing. This is a terrible challenge. I hate the challenge.

[00:04:35] I just think it's fascinating that this movie is like we got Aykroyd and you're like, how are you applying him? They're like, we don't really know. My first note was not enough slurs. I. So I. I didn't realize I got it. You guys are right. Now. Now. In hindsight. Yeah. Oh wait, those were really bad. You gave it one star on Letterboxd, but only for that. Lack of commitment. One star per hundred slurs.

[00:05:05] It topped out there. Hi. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. The most explosive comedy podcast ever made. I'm Griffin. I'm David. You look very worried. This movie really bummed. Well, bummed me out is too strong, but I was just kind of like, I have never seen it in full. Yeah. Same. And I really just had that thought of like, it's going to be like interesting. We all think that. Everyone thinks this. And like, there'll be like kind of, you know, a lot to excavate about.

[00:05:34] And there is to some extent, like, but it's just, I was just kind of flabbergasted by how boring it was. Do you mind reciting the thing you texted us yesterday while you were watching it? Let me find it. Yeah. Yeah. This is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their career, such as making Jaws and Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Sure. And are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want, such as 1941. Sure.

[00:06:00] I mean, a perfect example of like two mega successes followed by a no notes disaster. Have you ever had someone who's been so like, so sure that they were making a disaster because he was, because this was like, I'm going to, they're going to hate this. They're going to, I'm going to, this is going to bomb. That's a good point. It's a bounce that he sees coming while he's making it, I think. Yes. What's also weird about it is we've maybe covered things that are like bounces that people see

[00:06:27] coming, but it's bounces where they're like, look, there's some esoteric, uncommercial thing I've always wanted to do. I'll do this with my friend. And I'm leveraging it to get this out of my system. But this is like him making something ostensibly in the trappings of what should be a popcorn movie and just doing it incorrectly and knowing he's fucking it up. There was, I watched this, there's an hour and 40 minute documentary on the Blu-ray, which

[00:06:55] has been carried over from the Laserdisc. This thing has been ported over for like 25 years onto various editions. And it's mostly talking heads of just like Spielberg, Zemeckis, John Milius, Bob Gale. And he says my, like my operating principle on this movie was anything goes. And he was like, I don't want anyone to explain to me that it's a bad idea. We can do anything we want and it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense.

[00:07:21] And I'm like, this feels like a guy who actually wants to like fuck up on purpose because he's feeling the burden of being seen as a golden child. He's like running headlong into the wall, being like, what happens if I hit my head against the wall? Right. And he's like, either it works and I'm literally unstoppable or I'm grounded in a way I may be need at this moment. This is a miniseries on the films of Steven Spielberg. It's called Podrassic Cast. Today we are talking about his first bounce, 1941. A World War II movie.

[00:07:50] In a manner of speaking, yes. Sadly, because our guest today would be very, very well suited to talk about a World War I movie. Go on. Well, they host the Doughboys podcast. Oh, wow. We're one war off. We were both scratching our heads. You guys are like, huh? Which one's that? No, of course the Doughboys are, were the names of the soldiers. Yeah. The American soldiers. Right. And in World War II, they were called the Action Boys with a Z, right?

[00:08:21] We should have got Capers and Cotters and Stanger on. The British soldiers were called Tommy. Okay. That was like how British soldiers were referred to like the sort of- Interesting. In World War I, the classic British soldier was called Tommy. What were American- Doughboys. No, before World War II. I don't know. G.I. Joe? I don't know. Google type away. Nick Weiger and Mike Mitchell. Hi. What's up? Hey, buddy. Thanks for having us. Of course. Can I say one thing to your listenership? First off, I'm a huge fan of the podcast. Mitch and I are both big fans of the podcast.

[00:08:51] God bless you. Always happy to be a guest on. Always honored to guest on the show. This is the first time, I feel like every time we've guested on Blank Check in the past, and I think this is the case with how you tend to schedule your show, we've been like 18 months in advance of when the miniseries comes out. Oh, yeah. It's like- That's true. Now we're close. Exactly. I was listening to the duel episode on the commute to the studio. Wow. So it's like we're very- We're almost caught up to the present with this Spielberg series. Isn't this also kind of the first time you guys have not been on a movie that's like

[00:09:21] a really sort of big kind of weighty movie? Here are the three previous movies you guys have covered. Right. Who Framed Roger Rabbit, They Live, and Seven. Yeah. Right. Like really good movies. They are all at least in conversation for that director's masterpiece. Yes. If not the undisputed one, they're at least in that talk, and this is, you're getting what is, like, I don't want to say inarguably, but pretty widely considered a single worst film. You'll find very few people put something lower- It's certainly at the bottom. Right.

[00:09:51] It's like, I mean, you know, it's like how whatever, George W. Bush is a bottom five president, right? Well- You know how people do rankings of presidents, these historians? They're always, like, ranking presidents. Yeah. Do I always think it's really weird? My well was sarcastic. I want to state that because no one laughed. You don't like George W. Bush. Sure. Fine. I don't like him. I love him. No, what I was going to say is- Dogface. They were called the Dogfaces?

[00:10:17] Dogface was a nickname for U.S. Army soldiers, especially enlisted infantrymen in World War II. Wow. Kind of insulting. I don't know. This does seem insulting. To use my current favorite- Served. First life. To use my recent favorite word on the podcast, I do feel like this is kind of, like, inarguably Spielberg's greatest folly. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm.

[00:10:45] This is, like, the biggest swing and a miss and the sort of public fallout kind of, like, humbling moment. It is a big swing. I mean, that's the thing. It is. He's trying stuff. And yes, and my tebid defense of this movie, which I have seen before. Mitch, I don't know. Had you ever seen this before? No, I've never seen it. This is the first time I've ever seen it. I watched this movie as a child. I saw this when I was in elementary school. And it, along with another Ackroyd movie, Dragnet. I don't know if y'all remember the Dragnet remake. Oh, yeah. Or City of Crime. It was a comedy, yeah.

[00:11:14] That was, like, one of the first times I saw a comedy with someone I thought was funny where I was like, why is this not funny? Like, I was like, I had, like, a nine-year-old brain of, like, not understanding how someone who was funny could be, was capable of being unfunny. This is why I'm so happy you guys are on for this episode. Because, I mean, as you said. Because we're experts on unfunny? Why are these comedians not making me laugh? It's so weird.

[00:11:43] The Stanley Kubrick take. Apple tagged this as a comedy podcast. The Stanley Kubrick take is I agree with, maybe. Kubrick thinks it's a great movie, but just is not funny at all. Yeah, right. You should have released it and sold it as a drama. And I'm sure y'all have some of this in the dossier, but I was shocked to find that this was originally developed as a drama.

[00:12:06] But, like, the thing I picked up on, I watched it twice for this episode, and the thing I picked up on. The theatrical cut both times? Yeah, I just watched the theatrical cut twice. Okay. I was realizing this. I maybe saw the extended cut because I watched it on TV as a kid. Maybe that's the version I saw. Extended cut was the one that was largely... It was a TV mainstay. Right. Yes. And then was on home video for a while. Now it's optional. Yeah. Yeah. So, watch it.

[00:12:35] But, like, the thing I picked up on, speaking of Kubrick, that I didn't pick up on as a kid, not knowing who Slim Pickens was, once Slim Pickens showed up, I was like, oh, he's trying to make, you know, Dr. Strangelove. Like, this is an attempt at that sort of, that level of, you know, war satire. Which, by the way, Slim Pickens plays a... He's a doughboy. He's a former doughboy. That's right. He is a former doughboy. He served. He served. This is true. Right. And he does give Wendy's four forks in the room. Even though I think Soledas has gotten bad. Right.

[00:13:04] Even though, right, and the app isn't as good anymore. There's that scene where he keeps saying, cigarettes are back. I don't know why my Slim Pickens impression is goofy. It was fine. No, this is a perfect movie where you're like, why is none of this funny? And you're watching it and you're like, there isn't like a clear like, well, this is obviously conceptually doomed unfunny. No.

[00:13:31] But just every moment there's like a black hole of comedy. I'm just kind of like, why am I not laughing? Like, this is funny. Why am I not laughing? This is a, you know, vaudevillian, you know, big, silly, slapsticky stuff. Why am I kind of like, is it too good in a way? Like, is Spielberg too good at staging action? And so I'm actually kind of just like watching what happens and it's not quite, you know, goofy enough. I don't know. Goofy things happen. Yeah.

[00:13:56] I have, I have a couple takes, but I, you know, we, the reason we're recording this closer to the date was we were trying very hard to make this an in-person record. You guys being on the East coast and then it didn't quite work out. And there was a question of like, you guys are going to be doing a live show here in a couple months. Should we wait and reschedule you for something later? And I was like, maybe we do something later as well. But you guys on 1941 really feels right. And watching it last night, I was like, there is a larger conversation to be had here

[00:14:23] without getting academic, a dumb version of this conversation. We're watching this movie genuinely makes me step back and go like, what is funny? Yeah, right. How does something become fun? Why is anything funny? Because it's really weird to watch incredibly funny people in circumstances where you're like, I could see this being funny and things like that are not ineptly crafted, you know, and are certainly given all the resources and support they need.

[00:14:51] And there's like anti-lafs without it feeling like anti-humor, without it feeling like disastrous failed humor. It's just not fucking funny. Yeah. It's like John Belushi and, you know, in a fighter jet cracking a Coke bottle in half and then gargling with it and then throwing it out the, you know, throwing it to the ground. Like that could be funny. Like that could be a bit of physical comedy. You're watching this like, okay, all the pieces are here, but you're watching and it just feels abrasive or like nothing at all.

[00:15:19] I watched the extended cut, which is two and a half hours long. Oh God. I had a notes app that was right down every time you audibly make a sound. And I believe I had five full laughs. Four farts? A lot of farts. Farts were their own notes. I think I had five like, huh? And like two like, huh? Kind of half chuckles. Not bad, honestly. Yeah. It was a little higher than I was expecting.

[00:15:46] I will say they basically ended by the one hour mark. Like at some point, the movie just wore me out. I think there were none in the last hour possibly. But the Belushi Coke bottle is one that got me. I will say anytime Belushi is on screen, it at least resembles comedy. There's energy. Yeah. It is comedy adjacent. You're like, I'm not laughing, but I get this is comedy. Whereas other scenes, you're like, I don't even know what I'm seeing anymore. But wait, I do want to hear. Yeah. What you. So, okay.

[00:16:15] Nick, you'd already seen 1941. Yes. You had some memory of it. What did you. I admit you'd never seen. What did you guys think of 1940? Just broadest reaction. Well, I think it's good that what Griffin was saying with the, with the Doughboys are good guests to have on for this. I can tell you why I think it doesn't work as a comedy. So you were afraid of me. I'm getting my finger there. I'm getting riled up. I am getting riled up. He's about to say it's too woke. Yeah. No, no. I'm about to give a little Ackroyd type speech right here. Hell yeah. Oonga Pachka. Oonga Pachka, yes.

[00:16:45] There's too much. Hats on hats. There's too much going on at once. I wrote down Steven Speedberg. That's what I said because the. Wow. Mitch. Steven Speedberg. He's going nuts. He's got, there's a million. It's a sort of thing with comedy where you're like, oh, you got to let things breathe a little bit. No joke. There's not like, there's almost not a single joke that gets to kind of breathe in the movie. It's all so deliberate, so fast. And then also at the same time, people are falling over or yelling other lines at the same time.

[00:17:15] And then it's like such an insane, like maybe it's a mad, mad, mad, mad world or something. He was trying to like evoke that or something, but it's, it's just too much stuff. There's a, it has, it's the unrelenting cacophony of like a, you know, the, the water world stunt show at Universal. You know what I mean? It just, it just like kind of like things are just keep happening and you can take that for, for 20 minutes, but if you take it for two full hours, it just, it just, you get numb to it.

[00:17:42] Um, yeah, it's like every single scene has a car exploding or someone getting punched in the face or a building. People getting knocked over by cars. People getting knocked over by cars. A building collapsing. There's like a, there's like Robert Stack just giving exposition outside the movie theater to a certain point in the background. A Jeep just flips randomly. And it's just, it's just hard to like track what's happening. By the way, one of the funniest moments for me is him just going and enjoying Dumbo. That's like such a great. Which is a quieter moment. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:10] Uh, the best moment in the movie is when anytime Dumbo is playing and I'm watching Dumbo locked. Yeah. The fucking Dumbo. You're like, God, Dumbo is so good. Yeah. Thinking about like, ah, should I show my daughter Dumbo? And then being like, ah, Dumbo is really sad. Like it really is upsetting. Like the mom. And I'm like having all these thoughts about Dumbo. The movie is by the way, you know, now like being like moving on from Dumbo. And I'm like, ah, still thinking about Dumbo. My friend Alejandro used to have a standup bit about the reason why Atlas Shrugged is so long is in the middle of a book.

[00:18:40] The main character reads another book. And he's like in Great Expectations, just you read the full Great Expectations. And then on page 500, it goes, and she closed the book and said, wow, what a good book. Like, here's. And it's like that with Dumbo where you're like, Dumbo is like famously 50 minutes long. It's very short. Very short. Yeah. Watching the extended cut of the movie, I'm like, you could have just given me Dumbo in full. Just have people be like, let's sit down. Yeah. Look, Steven Spielberg, this is what I want to throw to you guys.

[00:19:08] I'm sort of realizing is I look at my Spielberg rankings. Okay. I think the worst five movies he's made are his comedies. Totally so. I'm inclined to say you're right. Things like, you know, like the Indiana Jones movies are fun adventure movies. They have comic tones. Like, so it's same with Tintin. Sugar Land Express is like sort of a comedy. Yeah. Kind of like comedy drama. You know, caper, right?

[00:19:37] Catch Me If You Can is a comedy, but, you know, it's again like a caper movie. It's very melancholy. I was going to say, I mean, Sugar Land and Catch Me If You Can operate on a similar register of being kind of like dramedy. Yeah. I'm keeping those like. With a chase structure versus straight comedy. His worst films are 1941, The Terminal, Hook, Always, and I'm sorry, The BFG. No, I agree. And like, I mean, The BFG is a kid's movie, but it is, you know, sort of a comedy. The Tuxin is for losers. 1941, The Terminal. Yeah. And Hook.

[00:20:07] Yes. But especially 1941. His two worst movies are his two like straightest attempts at a comedy. But I feel like you hear people say this a lot. And maybe people disagree with me on his worst movies. No, but I think I have the same five as you in maybe a slightly different order. When people discuss like Spielberg, they're like, and of course his Achilles heel is he can't do comedy. And when this came out at the time, people were almost celebrating like, thank God, this guy isn't invincible. He's got a weakness.

[00:20:37] He can't do comedy. What's weird about it is I think Spielberg is incredibly good at putting comedy into non-comedic movies. 100%. Yes. He can have such a light touch. And it's part of his magic is his balance is like even in something like Saving Private Ryan, which is like so relentless, it could be so dire. He'll have stuff like Jeremy Davies doing like physical comedy. Yeah, that shit's funny. Where you're like, he's really good at the instincts of like, when do you like take your

[00:21:04] foot off the gas a little, have a little reprieve, something that doesn't feel like you'll flip into the rest of the tone. All the Indiana Jones movies are funnier than this movie. For sure. Which have ostensibly been comedies. Jurassic Park is funnier than this movie. Absolutely. I both Jurassic Park's he directed. Right. But it's like when he's like, you know what I want to do? I want to just simplify and just do a straight comedy. He like falls apart. Yeah, he seems to be searching for whatever, a superstructure he can't have.

[00:21:31] This movie also, I mean, this movie's real problem is, what is this movie about? Well, this is the thing to talk about. Because I know the movie, what the movie is about. It's about a genuine historical event that they're having fun with and supersizing. What the fuck is this movie about? Like, what am I supposed to walk out thinking? Exactly. I truly don't really know. There were two really interesting things I found out in this special feature documentary, right? Right.

[00:21:59] And like, I think at the beginning of it, Spielberg says like, you know, they liked it in Europe. Uh-huh. And he's like, so I go to Europe when I want to feel better about 1941. But he was like, basically, it felt like we made this movie that only like me, Milius and the two Bobs enjoyed. Right. Like, he's sort of like, none of us have any shame. We had such a good time making this. And it felt like our big fuck you to everything and everyone. And we just had uninhibited fun. Right. But the two things they said that stuck out to me, one is they're talking about the development

[00:22:26] of this project, which, as you said, Weiger started out as a drama and then at some point transformed into a comedy. And they're talking about how the two Bobs, Zemeckis and Gale, discovered this real incident that they morphed and combined with a couple other things. The idea of there being a Japanese attack on California. And they're talking about like, that felt like a great starting point for a movie. And then Bob Gale goes, I mean, in real life, the event happened in 1942. And I'm like, wait a second. So right off the bat, why the fuck is this movie called 1941?

[00:22:56] That's a fair point. That's a good point. I mean, the Battle of Los Angeles did take place in 1942. That is not the big problem, but it feels emblematic of like, you can't even explain to me why you're doing this. Why is the title of a movie a different year than when the thing happened? Why are we changing things willy nilly? The other thing was he talked about how the Robert Stack character, he originally offered to John Wayne. That was his wildest dream. This is what I know. Yeah, sure. Well, then we'll talk about this. John Wayne to do the film. Right.

[00:23:24] And he had like developed a friendship with John Wayne. They get the script to John Wayne and John Wayne is like, you shouldn't make fun of this. The way Spielberg put it. Sure. He was like, I'm on the phone with John Wayne. John Wayne pitched me a project he wanted to do. I was like, I actually have a script. Would you mind reading it? He's like, absolutely send it over. And he's like, John Wayne like called me within two hours of the messenger dropping the script off. He clearly had read it immediately. Right. And was irate. He was really mad.

[00:23:52] And was like, how fucking dare you? American soldiers fought and died for this. I thought you were an American. Correct. I thought you were going to make a movie to honor World War II. This dishonors the memory of what happened. Don't even make this film. I'll be very disappointed if you wind up making this picture. And the way Spielberg. Wow. Could he at least call him Pilgrim at the end? Yeah. And then he would throw out some racial slurs. The way Spielberg put it, he was like, John Wayne was like, this script is a slap in the face to the U.S. military. Right.

[00:24:22] And Spielberg's retort was, I don't think it's a slap in the face. I think it's a pie in the face. I have respect for the U.S. military. I just think it's fun to put pie in faces. Yeah. And I'm like, there's the whole problem right there. This movie has no fucking point of view. It doesn't really have a perspective. John Wayne's like, this is offensive because it's not taking the military seriously. And Spielberg's like, I have nothing critical to say about the military. I just think it's funny when pies go in people's faces. But like. Right.

[00:24:48] It's going back to, you know, the kind of attempt at making, you know, a Dr. Strangelove. It's like Dr. Strangelove has a point of view. Like you understand what it's saying about like Cold War hysteria. This one I have no idea what it's trying to convey. Dr. Strangelove is anti-war. MASH is anti-war. These are movies with like 1941. I kind of agree with John Wayne. Like. Yeah. I'm like. I agree with him on a lot of things. On a lot of things.

[00:25:16] Mostly his Playboy interviews. Where I'm kind of like. Well. And I guess that we can talk about how it turned from a drama to a comic. Because it's like. Yeah. That what it's about is like a paranoid on edge nation. Right. After Pearl Harbor. Kind of like, you know, exploding into suspicion and chaos and all that. And the movie's like. I guess it's kind of like. Yeah. These dorks. And I'm like. They're not dorks. They're freaking out. And it's causing problems. Like. But that's even. It's scary.

[00:25:46] Something like The Russians Are Coming. The Russians Are Coming. Which is another movie that feels like a big influence on this. That to me is the most obvious analog. Right. And that's a movie about paranoia that is. That is funny. The Russians Are Coming is funny. Yeah. And it's also like. That movie functions more as social satire. Where it's about like the American public reacting to something. Rather than like a scathing indictment of the military. Yeah. And it's like. That's a take two. Yeah. You know. And instead this movie is just kind of like. Everyone's dumb. No. To me this movie is like. We have lots of money. Yes.

[00:26:16] Also. But anyway. Nick. What are you going to say? Oh. I was just going to say. And Mitch. I want to hear what you have to say as well. But like. I was just going to say that. It's. It's 1941 is the movie. Right. It's set before like the kind of the. The outbreak of the. Yeah. The full fledged American involvement in the. Right. You know. European and Pacific theaters. But like. For this to work as satire. World War II would have had to be a big nothing. Right. Right. Because it would have been like. Look at all this hysteria. These people getting worked up over. Yeah. Over this thing that was like this. You know. Whatever. That was.

[00:26:47] That was a false alarm. But it like. It completely. Again. Yeah. I kind of. Sympathize with John Wayne's perspective. By the way. How much. How much. John Wayne have felt like. You know. Towards the end of his career. Towards the end of his life. Spielberg makes close encounters in Jaws. He hears Spielberg is making a World War II movie. And he wants him. And he gets the script delivered. Reads it immediately. And then like on page five. A lady's trying to fuck an airplane. Hey John. I mean.

[00:27:16] I think John Wayne. Who is a fascinating figure. Like had. You know. He had this whole complex. Fascinating political figure. Well. How he didn't serve. Right. Yes. And he played all these servicemen. Yes. And in movies and stuff like that. And he I think had a weird chip on his shoulder. About like you know. Being a phony actor. Instead of a real hero. The chip on his shoulder. Was like. It was a. He had like imposter syndrome. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. And the whole thing with John Wayne is. I grew up just thinking that he was this like super square. Right. Like that was what I knew about him. Then you start watching John Wayne movies. And you're like.

[00:27:45] This guy really pops. This guy fucking rocks. The screen eats this guy up. He's so good. He's one of the definitive. I don't know if he's a good actor. But he's an unbelievable movie star. I just want to watch this guy like pour beers. Like this rules. But yeah. Yeah. Like the Zoot Suit Riots. Which are part of this movie. Big part. And by the way. The extended cut. I was like trying to look up what the differences are. It feels like it's 90 percent. That plot line. Right. Put back in. That's like. Which is the main thread of the version I watched.

[00:28:15] That's like a really interesting. Charge. Scary. Part of history. Where like white soldiers started beating up black people and Mexicans and stuff. In like the middle of the war. And like patriotism is curdling. Again. Not. And Spielberg's like. Well it's like a big set piece. Where like a bunch of punching happens. Like this is great. When I say that his take on the movie is everyone is dumb. I don't mean that in a pointed way. Where he's like trying to comment on like human fallibility or whatever.

[00:28:42] It's just like going against the adage. Like the comedy adage of like play to the top of your intelligence. Yes. Like it's very hard to make audiences find dumb people funny. Especially at like played at length. That's. And this is a movie where everyone is just low intelligence in a way that doesn't feel like it's commentary on anything. That was exactly like another reason why the movie isn't funny. It's just a comedy of misunderstandings where you're like.

[00:29:09] Like oh they shoot John Belushi shoots Treat Williams is playing. You know what I mean. It's like. And then the Japanese submarine is out at sea lost for most of the movie. It's like not. And I get that it's not a real threat and that they're just paranoid. But you're just like the comedies of misunderstanding is bad. It's right. It's it's it's boring. There's no stakes. Mitch. It's boring. It's exactly what it is. It's a boring ass movie. Because you get it right away what the joke is. And then there's not really. Yeah. You're so much smarter than the characters.

[00:29:39] And to your point like page five minute five or whatever you're like okay Nancy Allen really wants to fuck airplanes. Where's this going? It goes just there across ten more scenes. Yeah. She just keeps wanting to fuck airplanes. She's horny about airplanes. I was excited when Slim Pickens found the the in the Cracker Jack box when they actually when they found when the Japanese found the compass. I was like thank God they're going to go to like Hollywood now and then Slim Pickens swallows and I was like fuck. This sucks.

[00:30:07] Like I want I want them to go. I want something to happen here. That's why I actually I liked I liked the zoot suit stuff just because I at that point I was like this is fun to watch. Right. I mean it was fun to watch. Yeah. He's a good director. Like that's what the zoot suit rides thing I'm not mad about it in sort of like I can't believe he didn't remark on those seriousness. I'm just again I'm kind of like well there is something to that but the movie is not interested in whatever there is to that.

[00:30:36] It's not saying anything. Yeah. In its depiction. I mean it obviously completely sucks out you know removes the racial element from from the historical thing. But like it's it also is like it's depicting it but not not saying anything but but this this goes back to a thing I was going to say earlier of like my tepid defense of this movie is you watch that sequence and you watch it begins in the dance hall and that that that whole bit that big dance contest sequence that turns into a fight. It's like that's pretty dazzling to watch. Yeah.

[00:31:05] It's it's it's an impressive bit of staging and to contrast it with another one 1941 versus Red One like like two like action comedies that absolutely do not that that do not work. Red One is just like a like a a money. I made me mad to compare. I actually do. Now I'm now I think I like the movie way more. Yeah. Because Red One is like a muddy ugly mess. There's nothing to look at in that that 250 million dollar CG you know goop fest that that's at all like appealing visually.

[00:31:34] And this movie at least has stuff where it's like oh OK he's doing stuff. I got it. I got a pitch. Yeah. 1940 Red One. Yeah. There we go. We pitched that to The Rock. It's it's bad. It's a it's a it's a it's a period piece with with Callum Drift. That's great. Right. To your John Wayne point why like a thing I kept thinking about in that whole anecdote it meant you killed it. Bezos is fucking blowing your phone up right now.

[00:32:01] So John Wayne similarly in this period of time a couple years earlier. Sure. Was Mel Brooks's first choice for the Waco Kid and Blazing Saddles. Sure. I mean John Wayne died the year this movie came out. He was also like this is the very end of his life. He obviously suffered from cancer at the end of his life. Yes. Sends him Blazing Saddles script. Mm hmm. John Wayne reads it calls Mel Brooks back immediately is like this is the funniest thing I've ever read. I could never do this movie. Right. OK. So he had good taste on Blazing Saddles. That's the thing.

[00:32:30] He was like you know. And again he was like I love the slurs. So many. And I get to say all of them. They're like no those are the other characters. You're supposed to be a good guy. To be clear I'm slandering John Wayne when I say that. That is a movie that is very pointedly commenting on American racism. Sure. Right. Got it. For a racist old man. Right. And was basically like this script is really funny. I think it'll be a great movie. His famous line was I won't do it but I'll be first in line to see it. Sure.

[00:33:00] And he just was like I think my fans will murder me. And I don't think it will help your movie. I think it will like lend too much. I think it would have fucked up the movie. It would have. I think he's too right. He's too big a deal for that movie. He was 100% right. But like he read that script and was like I get it. I get what you're doing here. Yeah. Which makes like the framework of his like absolute dead on precision. This is the problem with 1941 on paper. All the more like he wasn't just reacting to something being countercultural.

[00:33:29] You know he wasn't just being conservative. He was like this sucks. Do you know what John Wayne's tombstone says? Le rip. That's what I was in Wilson's tombstone. My favorite tombstone of all time. His tombstone says feo fuerte y formal. Spanish for ugly, strong, and dignified. He requested that be on his tombstone. Anyway.

[00:34:00] David, it's February which means it is my birthday month. And all I ask for as a present this year is a robust slate of new theatrical motion picture releases. And that our listeners perhaps use our sponsor Regal and their Regal Unlimited program to see such releases. Yeah. What do we got? The Monkey. Actually called The Monkey.

[00:34:26] New film from Oz Perkins whose long legs I loved last year. Starring another one of our friends past and future guests Tatiana Maslany. That's right. And looks very, very funny and cool and scary. Also very intrigued by this Martin Campbell action or cleaner with Daisy Ridley. Starring Daisy Ridley. Someone I've always had very, very calm opinions about on this podcast. I'm very excited for it feels like she's kind of ramping up her movie career again. Here's the thing.

[00:34:56] Oh and then there's the day the earth blew up. I was gonna say if that weren't enough. Very version of the movie. February ending with the first original feature length animated Looney Tunes movie ever that I have heard is excellent. And here's the thing. The day the earth blew up in a Looney Tunes movie. What's awesome about all this is that there's lots of interesting different kinds of movies. This is what I like. In theaters that you can go see. And with Regal Unlimited the whole point is you sign up and seeing three, four, five, six of those movies is easy and affordable.

[00:35:25] And I find that once you have the Regal Unlimited right? You know sort of the option to basically like let me pop over my theater. I have three free hours. That's what's nice about it. You do it more. Go see the movies. Go see the movies. Please sign up now in the Regal app. Yes. Or the link in the description in our show notes. And use code BLANKCHECK to get 20% off your three month subscription. And then you're gonna be in the Crown Club. You're gonna get rewards. You're gonna build up points.

[00:35:55] You can get free popcorns and sodas and upgrades. 25% off candy on Tuesdays. 50% off popcorn. Discounted ticket. Go to the Regal Crown Club website. And as I said it's a little deep. It's a little buried in here. There is a section where you can redeem your points for old. Promotional Movie Memorabilia like Red One Socks. Right. Follow the link in the show notes. Go to the Regal app. Click on the Unlimited banner. And then follow the instructions to sign up and enter promo code BLANKCHECK when prompted to receive your discount. And look I'm just gonna say it again David.

[00:36:24] Signing up for Regal Unlimited. Or maybe gifting a membership to a moviegoer in your life. Sure. Great way to support the show. This is a dream advertiser. Yes. A dream partner for us. We want to keep this going. We think it could benefit everybody. Especially the movies. 1941. So in 1973 Steven Spielberg made a movie called The Sugarland Express.

[00:36:54] He had a preview screening for it at USC's film school. And in attendance was Robert Zemeckis. Bobby Z. Who is attending film school and tracks down Spielberg and says please watch my 15 minute short film A Field of Honor about a combat veteran who's gone crazy. And he'd written it with his friend Bob Gale. It won this special jury prize at the Student Academy Awards. And Spielberg was blown away by it. And we covered Zemeckis years ago.

[00:37:21] That short is notably like a pitch black hyper like political sort of like countercultural satire. Right. It is the kind of tone that this movie is going for. That's what first gets Zemeckis on Spielberg's radar. And they those guys graduate as Meckis and Gale. The two bobs as you call them. They they write some TV. They work on a movie called Tank about oil protesters.

[00:37:50] This is where this sort of who are going to blow up a building with a Sherman tank. Right. They have Spielberg's ear. His star just keeps on rising. He's kind of taken him under his wing as protégés. He's also introduced them to John Milius. Yes. This is how they meet John Milius. Spielberg once a week goes skeet shooting with John Milius, I believe. I guess so. They certainly they go they go out hunting or whatever. Sure.

[00:38:16] And he introduces them and they're sort of like, how do we write a script that one of these guys will buy? And Milius had some sort of deal set up where he was guaranteed two pictures as director and three pictures as a producer. And this is coming off the success of Patton, where there was a big let's valorize the military kind of like trend in Hollywood. So the tank thing, I think, starts as them being like, how do we write something that

[00:38:45] would appeal to Milius and also would likely get greenlit? They're just looking to get something off the ground. Yes, they wrote a script called The Night the Japanese Attacked. Initially, it had a slur in the title. Then it was called The Rising Sun. And they were like, yeah, Wesley Snipes is going to want to make a Rising Sun movie. So we'll hold off on that. Yeah. So it gets called 1941. This outrageous concept about hysteria on the home front after Pearl Harbor. It is based on three events, none of which happened at the same time.

[00:39:14] The Japanese sub being sighted off the coast of Santa Barbara in February 42, that happened. That led to the Battle of Los Angeles where people started shooting in the sky at probably nothing because they thought they were being invaded. In 1943, the sort of zoot suit riots between sailors and zoot suiters who were being seen as unpatriotic for not signing up. You know, they were like anti-authority. But they're like pulling all these pieces of like the whole Ned Beatty plot line of this

[00:39:39] guy getting a fucking like aircraft gun in his backyard did happen, but not in California and in a different year. But they were just sort of like plucking. I mean, Tank, I'm forgetting what the take on Tank was, but it was some other pitch. And then they bring it to Milius. He's like, eh. But what else are you guys thinking in terms of war? They start talking about the Battle of California. Then it like morphs into like try writing something like that.

[00:40:09] They think to write it as a drama. And then at some point it shifts into comedy. Well, Spielberg is looking to make a movie. So Spielberg had made these movies Jaws and Close Encounters. You guys like those movies? Yeah. Yeah. I like those ones. Pretty good. By the way, I just want to say that I might just get fail on my grave. Just ugly. Forget the strong and dignified. I've been holding that in for a long time. I want to. You should have fired that off right away.

[00:40:41] Jaws is probably my top 10 films of all time. You're a big Jaws guy. Love Jaws. I love Jaws. I love Close Encounters. Actually, maybe I have Close Encounters ranked above Jaws on my personal list. But they're both like incredible movies. Jurassic Park to me is the king. I mean, that's like the perfect age. I saw that movie. Yeah. Similar. Yeah. And, and, and, and, but Jaws is like going down to Cape Cod when I was younger and Jaws being on in the summer.

[00:41:08] It's like what, like the idea of movies even just came from Jaws, I feel like. And that, so that's like, and they're the best. It's the, it's, it's one of the best of all time. And, you know, 1941 is a, it's a movie. Yeah. Yeah. So Spielberg's thinking of how do I follow those two movies? He circled a pirate, pirate movie. Uh-huh. That was being written by Jeff Fiskin that he wanted to be like an old fashioned sort of Errol Flynn movie. He exits that movie because pirate movies are just not hot.

[00:41:38] He's briefly attached to something called the bingo long traveling all stars and motor kings. That was made. Was it not? Yeah. Uh, John Batam directs it. Uh, whatever. He also. Sounds like a Matthew Robbins. Sounds like a Troy McClure movie. Yes. It really does. The contabulous fan traption of whatever. It is a Robbins though, right? Uh, Matthew Robbins wrote it with Hal Barr with the Sugarman Express guys. Um, he also, uh, circled magic, the haunted puppet movie with Anthony Hopkins that Richard

[00:42:07] Attenborough ends up making. Oh, right. Uh, he was going to make it with De Niro. Uh, imagine how that puppet would look. Yeah. I don't know. Uh, but then he was like, Attenborough did a great job with it. Did a better job than me. I, whatever. I don't know. Um, instead he's sort of thinking like, what if I do a big swerve? Right? Yeah. How about a comedy? Um, Milius, I think was sort of initially going to direct this movie. Yes. John Milius.

[00:42:36] Who's obviously a very chill and normal guy who, uh, was, uh, kind of older. I feel like the rest, maybe a little older than the Spielberg De Palmas, but was sort of friends with all of them. There was a chain of sort of, uh, uh, Coppola, uh, mentored Milius. Right. And then Milius co-wrote Apocalypse Now. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and Coppola kind of stamped him and verified him. And then he kind of took Spielberg and Lucas under his wing and De Palma. There was this chain in the way that Milius. But then they pass him.

[00:43:06] Yes, they all do. I mean, Milius' big best known movie is Conan the Barbarian, if you've heard of him. But all those guys talk about Milius as like the greatest writer amongst all of them. Weiger took a banana out of his pocket. Yeah. I thought he was happy to see us. And in fact, there was a banana in his pocket. And now he's eating a banana. We were enjoying your guys' convo. Yeah. You guys were, you were doing a better job than we could ever do talking about this movie. And we looked at each other and we nod and we took out food and we started eating.

[00:43:33] We decided while you're on your John Milius tangent, we're like, we're going to deploy Chekhov snacks. So Mitch grabbed his kind bar and I grabbed my banana. And we're having a great time. But we're having a great time. And Jemmy's sitting on the couch, by the way, for all the real heads. We should credit Jemmy in the title of the episode as the third guest. Jemmy is Emma's dog for people who aren't regular Doughboys listeners. Emma our producer. So. Oh, what I was going to say is Milius has this deal at the time. Right. Right. Right.

[00:44:03] At set up at MGM. So he brings the script to MGM. The first note is you got to change that fucking title. Right. That's when they changed the title. And the head of MGM at the time reads it and is like, I don't get this. Absolutely not. Passes on it. Right. Then a year passes. And when Spielberg's like, I don't know what to do next, which I get. I understand how if you make Jaws when you're in your 20s and is the biggest movie in history, then you follow it up by making this incredibly personal movie that is going over budget and

[00:44:31] over schedule and everyone thinks is going to be your folly. And then that succeeds wildly. Right. You're like, what the fuck do I do now? Yeah. And you're reading a script like Magic that is good on paper. But you're like, is this too small? Like, how do I outdo myself? What feels like it's living up to the expectation I've set for myself? Like, it is safer to do the thing that on paper seems more dangerous in a certain way. He's drawn to two things. Yeah. He likes the Ferris wheel sequence. Uh-huh.

[00:45:00] His Spielberg brain immediately is sort of like, that'd be fun to do. Because he's originally just reading it as a friend of the king. Yeah. But then, secondly, more importantly, he's like, yeah, what if I did something wild and funny? Um, you know, like, uh, I didn't approach it like as an experiment, but I thought it'd be a great opportunity, he says, to break a lot of furniture, see a lot of glass shattering. It was basically written and directed as one would perform in a demolition derby.

[00:45:28] I mean, he's sort of saying his mistake right there. Where he's basically like leading with the spectacle. Right. But it's like, this is his metal machine music where he's like, what if it's like all antagonistic and extreme and it's just chaos? Yes. He doesn't have a passion project, so this becomes the clearest thing for him to do. And Close Encounters felt like, this is my most personal movie. This is the most personal film I'm capable of making at this point. So he's like cashed in that chip already and it's worked.

[00:45:56] This was the other, the reason I'm winding up this whole thing is when Spielberg signs on, he goes, they go to Columbia because he had just done Close Encounters with them to say, this is the next movie I want to make. And in the year that it passed, the now head of Columbia was the guy who had passed on the movie at MGM. And he rereads the script. Right. And he's like, I still think this isn't good. I stand by my assessment this isn't good. But I guess if Steven Spielberg wants to make it. But it wasn't a Columbia movie.

[00:46:26] It was a Universal movie. So then he had a first look deal at Universal still left over from Jaws and the budget was getting so big that he went to Universal and convinced them to team up on it. And Universal ended up getting the bigger piece of it. But it was a co-production. But I just like that everyone involved was like, we said no to this movie two years ago. We stand by that you haven't fixed it. But I guess if Spielberg sees something in it that there's something we're not getting.

[00:46:53] So everyone's kind of going into this movie being like, bad idea. It makes total sense why everyone would say yes to it given his recent track record. And it also makes total sense why he would feel a bit of hubris. You know? Yes. I understand absolutely how everyone arrived at this. Just to return to the Ferris wheel real quick, which I think is another good sequence.

[00:47:16] Like it's like, you know, again, there's stuff purely from a visual standpoint that's very engrossing in this movie. I mean, even just a high angle shot he does to connect the people in the Ferris wheel cart to the ground. It's just like, you know, we're talking one perfect frame. I mean, it's a good shot, you know? But I feel like the Ferris wheel becoming unmoored from its hinges and rolling down the boulevard. That feels like something Ben would like.

[00:47:46] Ben, am I correct there? Oh, this is what a great instinct, Dwight. Did you like 1941, Ben? Yeah, we haven't checked in with your opinion. Well, OK, so I wanted to be comprehensive, right? Going into this. So you started from watching 1900 and worked your way up to 1946. I started with year one. Yeah. Good, good. Better joke, better joke, better joke. No, it's OK. I stepped on it. But I'm familiar enough with the Ferris wheel. And to answer your question, Wiggs, 100%, man. Hell yeah.

[00:48:14] Now, I think Wiggs is onto something here, which on paper, this should be your kind of movie. Like you loved Crime Wave, the Raimi movie that Raimi's kind of disowned. Yes. That is similarly all kind of like live action cartoon, like people bunking each other on the head. A lot of yelling. And chaos. Very slapsticky, yeah. Right. Done at a very small budget. Sure. But like at this kind of manic pitch the entire time. This movie has elements that feel like they should be fucking catnip to you. Yeah.

[00:48:43] And even just like the kind of porch-esque quality of it, right? Yeah. Which big TV movies. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. But no, this could just not grab my interest. It's a real like eyes sliding off the screen thing. That's how I felt watching it. The thing I said to you, I already forgot. Yeah. Was I'm watching 1941 right now and it's such a slog. I think it's ruining my day. Definitely that and not just Sunday with three children.

[00:49:11] This anecdote I really like. Spielberg's making Close Encounters. He's talking to Francois Truffaut, one of the great filmmakers and an idol of Steven Spielberg's who's in the film. Just to be clear, he is actively developing this script, overseeing rewrites while he's making Close Encounters. Truffaut says, and this is Spielberg quoting him, I like you with Keeds. You are wonderful with Keeds. You must do a movie with just Keeds. And Spielberg's like, well, yeah, I've always wanted to do something like that, but I've got to finish this and then I'm going to do 1941.

[00:49:42] It's just this movie about Japanese attacking Los Angeles. And Truffaut just apparently said, you are the child. And was like, you're making a huge mistake. So Truffaut was right. And he takes Truffaut's advice and is like, I guess I'll knock out a kind of like Raiders E.T. double bill after this. Just kind of fucking level it out. That's the thing about Spielberg where you're like, oh, 1941. What a bomb. How do you follow that up? It's like, I don't know. Raiders of the Lost Ark and E.T.'s. Yes.

[00:50:10] So maybe just go and like suck his dick. Well, gladly. But this is what is fascinating to me. Talking about this movie, just like the weirdness of it treating World War II like it was a canard. Right. Like this movie tries to like wag the dog World War II or like the thing that like Dr. Strangelove does where it like creates an incident that never happened. Right. Based around like the Cold War and the missile crisis and paranoia and all this sort of stuff.

[00:50:39] He's like riffing on a thing that we know turned out horrifically. Right. For like most of the planet. Yes. Bad. Right. And then the movie he does right after this is a like adventure serial where the villains are the Nazis set during the exact same time period. True. And he finds the right way to thread the needle. And of course, like post Schindler, he said, like, I couldn't do another Indiana Jones movie where the villains are Nazis because I took it too seriously at that point. And I didn't want to make light of it.

[00:51:09] But you're like fucking Last Crusade and Raiders have this balance on like somehow keeping in mind the enormity of the tragedy and the villainy and all of that sort of stuff without it being distracting. Whereas this movie, you're just like, hey, can we just like remember what's going on in the background here? Yeah, I you're right. There's so much to say. I mean, he also tried to make this movie called Growing Up. I'm just going to kind of move past that. We can talk about it later. Okay. Episode.

[00:51:37] Was Growing Up the original sort of Fablemans? Yeah. People sort of think that Zemeckis and Gale wrote it for him because he was like, do you want to write a movie about kids for me? Yeah. And they said like it kind of it was like a nerd versus jocks thing. It wasn't like a sensitive like divorce movie. Yeah. And that they like got some money and Spielberg was like casting kids. And Caleb Deschanel, the cinematographer, was like, this fucking sucks. This script is ass. And like, I don't think you have a good idea here.

[00:52:05] And Spielberg is like, yeah, forget it. I won't do this. And E.T. is what he sort of settles on later. Anyway, instead he decides to do this gigantic, you know, overwhelming, expensive movie. Even though this is a comedy about, again, nothing in particular. It just screams like money. It's crowds, sets, explosions, like you're saying.

[00:52:30] Like, it's like that Armageddon commentary where, you know, the iconic DVD commentary for Armageddon where Ben Affleck is like three sheets to the wind. And like in the first scene, there's the helicopters taking off behind Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck on the oil rig. And Ben Affleck's like, that just costs $250,000. Right. Like, it doesn't need to be there. It's not part of the plot. There doesn't need to be a helicopter taking off right now. And that's just $250,000, like right behind us, just like drowning us out. That's what this movie is all the time.

[00:52:58] This movie feels like that is the explicit purpose of every scene. Like the center of every scene is the most expensive thing that's happening in the scene, not just as a background element. But also, who is the star of this movie? Great question. Because I walked into this movie, I loaded this movie up being like, well, Belushi is kind of the star, right? And it's like, now Belushi is just punctuation. Oh, it's a classic Aykroyd Belushi two-hander.

[00:53:22] And I'm watching it, and like an hour and 20 minutes in, I was like, Jesus Christ, are they never going to interact in this movie? There's the point where they're both on the same street, but I think Aykroyd's knocked out and Belushi's on the other end. And I'm like, but they're physically in the same space. Are they finally going to link up? And then they like go off in opposite directions. And at the end of the movie, they salute each other in coverage. They literally never appear in the same shot.

[00:53:47] It is so insane to make a Belushi Aykroyd comedy in 1979 and go, what if they never talk to each other? That was, I feel like it has that problem of like Caddyshack or something. Which, by the way, I love Caddyshack, of course. Caddyshack's pretty good. But Wally is maybe, and Wally doesn't do a bad job, that guy Wally. The young guy. The young guy. He's my cat's name. I love the name.

[00:54:15] I just am like, this is maybe the main character of the movie, right? This is the character who wins the dance contest. Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of the zoot suitor. Yeah. So that's, right. Yeah, he's the closest thing there is to a lead, but even he's like kind of hard to track. And he seems like a peripheral character the way he's introduced. The extended cut is mostly adding in the meat of his story. Because he's in I Want to Hold Your Hand. He's in the Zemeckis movie I Want to Hold Your Hand, which is the year before this.

[00:54:43] Over Wendy Jo Sperber and Eddie Deason and a lot of early Zemeckis stock company people that we talked about when we did that series. I think he's pretty good in this. I was actually surprised that he didn't do too, I mean, he'd worked consistently, but nothing really huge ever. Never got famous. No. Did kind of just fizzle out. He does, yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe it's just sort of like there's other guys like him. Yeah, but they talked about like as the script was getting unwieldy, Gale and Zemeckis were

[00:55:09] like, we should identify a kind of like central viewpoint character that you can go back to with like an emotional through line to track as we're like cutting across all these storylines. Sort of. Sort of. Look, he's not bad, but in the like cacophony of this movie, it doesn't like help clarify the movie. And you're also like, this isn't that gripping against the scale of the other shit happening.

[00:55:35] And Universal famously like freaked out like six weeks before this movie came out. And we're like, this thing is unwieldy. And their expectations are another Spielberg blockbuster. You need to cut 30 minutes out. And they cut 30 minutes out like last second. And unsurprisingly, they cut down the 30 minutes with the least famous person. Right. Right. The so. So he is the most boring, though. I mean, like it also is like, I do want to see more Belushi. I want to see the other people, but it just doesn't. Yeah. He's the most vanilla character, but although vanilla is a flavor.

[00:56:05] But he's like he's like the most like just kind of straight laced, like, you know, like the closest thing the movie has to protagonist. But even the way he's introduced in the diner, he's Glenn Miller's in the mood is is playing and he's doing, you know, the jitterbug like he seems crazy there. The way that you're onboarded to this character, because they're they're making like he's washing dishes. They're doing a little hobbit dishwashing song. And I don't even know you're supposed to like you're supposed to like him. Like and then the other guy who's making breakfast is like dropping whole eggs with shell onto the flat top.

[00:56:34] And it's just like, what what is going on here? Everyone's just the amount of shit that happens in the first 15 minutes of this movie. It is disorienting because you like cannot find a handle of like, what am I supposed to be focusing on? Yeah. Let's also just acknowledge the cold open of this movie is like I feel like one of the most infamously hubristic moments. Yes. It is the thing where like Spielberg talks about everyone wanted to take him down a peg. They were looking for like a way to ding his armor. Everyone's going into this movie. The expectations are unreasonable.

[00:57:04] Even if it had been good, but not great, people would have had their knives out. And the opening scene of the movie is Spielberg parodying himself and people just take out machetes and they're just like, fuck this so hard right off the bat. I look, we were, we talked about this a little before we started recording and I did that. My first thing that I wrote down, of course, is the first thing that happens in the movie. But I was like, would the Jaws parody annoy me today? Like if it was a different director that was parodying his own movie.

[00:57:33] And I don't know if it, I maybe would even like it. I can't tell, but it is, there's a lot of hubris from, from Spielberg. But I, it doesn't bother me that much, I guess. But also is that through the lens of me being a child that was raised on Jaws and loving Jaws? I don't know. It's, I think it plays pretty, it like feels pretty obnoxious to like parody your own thing.

[00:57:57] It feels a little, you know, I understand as a way to start the movie, it's a little off-putting. Yeah. I was just saying, I gave it points for being hornier. It is a little hornier. It's the same actress, right? Way hornier. It's the same actress. And part of this is maybe the weird Zemeckis thing. Because Zemeckis is, as we uncovered, maybe the horniest man alive.

[00:58:19] But like horny in a very like old school, kind of like a GI who has, right, like a sort of busty lady pinned up in his locker or whatever, where he's like, check a loader, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, like that's sort of his horny vibe. Did I say this in our Here episode? I don't know. That I was communicated to by someone who had worked with Zemeckis on developing a project that didn't happen in the last five years

[00:58:44] and said that they had a meeting with him for three hours and the only two things he wanted to talk about were boobs and special effects. What did he want to say about boobs? Everything, apparently. I don't know if you're like what. But like had no like story notes, casting ideas. He's just like, I'm thinking big boobs for this one. But just like, you know what I like? Areolas. Jesus Christ.

[00:59:07] By the way, if there was like, if the shark was there and his fin got bigger after seeing the girl or something, I would have liked something like that. That sounds good. That's already funny. That's already a better bit. Give me the naked gun version. Why are you holding backwards just to halfway point? Spielberg is too smart. And I think Zemeckis and Gayle are too smart to actually do the great naked gun shit where it's like, yeah, this should have no rocks in its brains. Like it should be so dumb. Can I can I open a little naked gun tangent here? Please.

[00:59:37] I do a yearly rewatch of the trilogy. Great. The first, second and third funniest movies ever made. Did that pretty recently. Right. Naked Gun two and a half, which is the first one that David Zucker directs solo. But Jerry Zucker and Jim Abrahams were still producers and writers on it. So they were all involved. Naked Gun two and a half comes out after Ghost, which Jerry had directed solo, had been this big transition.

[01:00:06] I'm a serious filmmaker movie. That's a huge blockbuster and an Oscar nominee and winner and everything. Naked Gun two and a half parodies Ghost. It is like the only other example I could really think of of the exact same thing. Right. In front of your own movie. Doing it that closely after. Right. There's the slight bit of difference of like this is David kind of ribbing his brother. Right. So it's not quite the same director. But Jerry's still involved. It's not the cold open. It was the trailer for the movie. Right.

[01:00:35] It doesn't feel galling. It feels like kind of funny that it's like this guy who went serious is cutting himself back down to size. And also it's within a framework where that is what is expected. If you're going to make a Naked Gun movie after you've made a Best Picture nominee, you have to make fun of yourself. Right. Like everything needs to be on the table. But watching that and thinking of other spoof movies and everything, it hit me while watching 1941 last night.

[01:01:02] Is there a fundamental rule that if you're spoofing something, it has to cost less money than the real thing you're spoofing? It should look a little jankier. Yeah. It should look better. I think that's kind of like just kind of like a sketch comedy sort of rule. Right. And I feel like, you know, you guys have worked in the same kind of like sketch comedy doldrums that I have and especially like, you know, 2000s video sketches. Yeah.

[01:01:27] There is a level where the production value is so bad that it actually fails to function as a parody. I think of like a lot of like what if Wes Anderson directed blank videos that are bad where you're like, if you can't successfully approximate his style, the satire doesn't work. But yet you need to get within spitting distance and like Mel Brooks movies, naked gun movies, like all of them hit the right balance of like this is done with genuine craft.

[01:01:55] They approximate the thing just enough, but it doesn't feel like you're thinking about how much it cost. There's almost like a. Yeah. Did this cost more than any other war movie that had been made up until that point? I mean, that's a fair. It's kind of the last action hero sort of issue, too. Right. It's like that feels like kind of to and last action hero works better than 1941, but it kind of feels too expensive to be parodying to be a parody. Yeah.

[01:02:22] It's there's kind of like a weird like double uncanny valley with parody because it's like there's also you can, though, have like a tick tock where someone has like a paper bag over their head and that kind of works. But then once you start making it feel like a real thing, it needs to have a certain level of of of, you know, fidelity behind it to feel like a parody. But then you go too far and then it stops feeling like it's any fun at all. Dead on. Yeah. Because you can get away with nothing or you can get away with getting fairly close, but you can't go over.

[01:02:50] And ideally you want to exist in that like middle space, which is really hard to hit. And you're right. Precisely. That whole sequence of her going up on the periscope or like it looks great. It looks impressive. It looks impressive. It does. Yeah. But then the payoff is like a Japanese man being like Hollywood, like seeing the girl. And truly doing like Borat horny noises. It hurt. You're just like, oh, OK, cool. Great.

[01:03:19] Because the bit is you start with the same actress doing the same night swim scene from Jaws. And then they're kind of mimicking the music and then they're just doing the music. Right. John Williams score for 1941 kind of goes. It kind of goes. He showed up. It was it was ear warmed into my head last night when I was trying to fall asleep. But, you know, rather than a shark, the thing that pops out of the water is this German submarine and she's riding on the like periscope and it feels very phallic. And as you said, these soldiers all come out.

[01:03:46] The Jaws opening is just this classic like, man, look at the fucking Spielberg magic. They couldn't get the shark to work. He had to design a sequence where you don't see the shark. It's all suggestion. You're like that sequence costs so little money to construct. The moment the submarine starts coming out of the water and she's like straddling the periscope, you're like too expensive, too expensive, too complicated, not funny. You know, it's like you have made something more technically complex than the thing you're parodying.

[01:04:14] There's another bit of self-reference in this as well. Right. Is it because I believe it's is it the actress from Duel, the gas station operator? Yes. Yeah. Also in this. The snake's lady. The snake's lady. Right. And it's when Feluci fills up his plane and then. Right. Like I'm almost kind of funny. Astonished this movie doesn't have a Close Encounters parody as well. That sequence is kind of funny. I think. The plane like, you know, the gas are up and then like the gas going everywhere. It's kind of funny.

[01:04:44] I guess the nozzle, the unwieldy nozzle kind of like, you know, being similar to the snakes. I guess that's what it's trying to reference. I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. That one's that part's OK. I just like Sims so half-heartedly being like, it's kind of funny. It kind of works. I was sort of chuckling. Yeah. But also like Spielberg says this on the fucking Laserdisc where he's like, this is something only Duel diehards will pick up. And I'm like, right at the time of this release, Duel is a TV movie. If you caught it on television. Right.

[01:05:13] It's not like you can go check out the VHS. That's not a thing that most people are going to pick up on. Can I just read my full 1941 laugh list? OK, go ahead. One. Reveal of Japanese soldiers disguised as X-mas trees. Oh, sure. Which is cut. It's cut in the version I saw. Yeah, it's not that theatrical. That's an extended cut. Extended. OK. And then I found out in watching this making of, that's a direct lift from a Marx Brothers movie that he was like, I want to do the Christmas tree bit. Number two, I wrote almost everything Slim Pickens does.

[01:05:42] Yeah. I think this is the most wholly successful performance, but also like sub sub plot. He's just Slim Pickens. That guy is fucking funny. But to Mitch's point, there's kind of like a clearer comedic game in his little section that makes sense. We'll circle back to this. Number three, I did put down Belushi with the Coke bottle. Got it out loud. Ha for me. Number four, Eddie Deason revealing the ventriloquist dummy. Anyway, insane. By the way, I was going to- It's really weird. And we'll get to it.

[01:06:13] I have a question for you guys. Please. Because you said he almost did this movie magic. And then I was like, was this a nod to that movie? Had to be. It must be, right. Oh, wow. Had to be. Because the other thing is they wrote the script where the two guys in the carousel were supposed to be- Abbott and Costello? Art Carney. Art Carney and Jackie Gleason. Oh, that's who it was. The Honeymoon. Sure. And they even wrote it as like, one guy's a mailman and the other guy's alike. They wrote it in the script that way.

[01:06:42] Then they have Spielberg on board. They're like, we can get anyone they want. They reach out to Jackie Gleason's agent and they relay back, Jackie Gleason refuses to ever work with Art Carney again. Oh, damn. Okay. Right. Well, Jackie Gleason was a bit of a tough customer. And I Want to Hold Your Hand had come out at this point. And Spielberg was like, where did you find this fucking Eddie Deason guy? Right. Rewrite it and make it Deason and an old guy. So it's Deason and the mayor from Jaws. But I don't think he would have given Art Carney a ventriloquist dummy.

[01:07:11] I think you're dead on that that was like a weird him making jokes about movies he didn't direct. But again, it just kind of feels like, you know, it's just, well, let's throw more props at this and more explosions and more. Yeah. I'm not going to laugh at it. The physicality at the reveal of you see a blanket next to him and it slowly rises. It's pretty funny. And then the head lifts up. I gave a half chuckle at Belushi as old man eating spaghetti. The weird cutaway to Belushi's cameo as a second non-speaking character.

[01:07:41] Yeah. I gave a half chuckle to water coming out of the dummy's nose at the end of the film. That's pretty good. That was good. Yeah. That's pretty funny. And then two full laughs at the dummy getting its own credit in the end credits. Yeah, that was good. And the explosions during the credits, which are the most I laughed in the entire movie. Joe Flaherty getting the width in the credits of all these people. And Joe Flaherty's good. I think he's good in this. Sure. He kind of crushes his scene. He's great. But let's also say, in terms of like this movie. R.I.P. Joe Flaherty recently depended. Recently passed. Yes.

[01:08:10] The unfunny in a way that almost defies logic. Yeah. This is a movie that has like four cast members from Stripes. Right. Three cast members from Laverne and Shirley. Bunch of SNL people. Two SETV people. Two SNL people. Like it is pulling from all the groups of the peaks of comedy, both like commercial and in like snob circles at the time. On top of like 10 dramatic film legends, including Toshiro Mifune. Yes. Yes. In his only like movie that he spoke English in or whatever.

[01:08:40] Yes. Every other American film he made, he was dubbed over by Paul Freese. Cool. Who I believe is the ghost host from, or the narrator from The Haunted Mansion ride. Right. Victor Freese, of course, was Batman's enemy. Well. Fell in a picture. Ice cubes. Right. Yeah. He's sort of a tragic figure because his wife Nora Freese. Wait, they dubbed over him? Over Mr. Freese? Yes, they did. They would dub over Toshiro Mifune in every other American film he did. Oh, wow. His English dialogue. Yes.

[01:09:08] This is the only American studio film in which he actually speaks. Right. Yeah. I heard that he like yelled at all the extras off. He like got them in line for the movies. The IMDB trivia says that he like got all the extras in line and was like, that's not how soldiers act and like got them acting like soldiers. Hell yeah. That's cool. God, if he yelled at me, I would melt into water. Gail said by the end of filming, those men would have died for him. Hell yeah. Yeah.

[01:09:37] But like now my wife walked out because she didn't watch any of the movie, but she came outside when I was watching it once and she, you know, she came to the living area during the credits. And this is when she was packing her bags. Just signed a new lease. We're very happy for her. So like every like third card or whatever, there's just like a random explosion that comes up and she watches it and she does laugh at it because she's like, why the fuck are things exploding during the credits?

[01:10:06] But it's kind of a microcosm for the movie as a whole, right? You're just watching it. It was like, why are there inexplicable explosions every like, you know, like like every like four seconds? Like what is going on exactly? I have. That is. Yeah. I have one thought on the credits as well. First of all, there's two thoughts here. One, the dummy is sentient because it notices things before the guy from Critters notices things. I forgot his name already. Eddie Deason? Eddie Deason. Eddie Deason. Who didn't have as big of a career as I thought either. I was surprised by it. He was in a lot of stuff in his figure.

[01:10:35] He was in a specific career. Yes. Very specific. We covered him when we were doing the Zemeckis movies, but he was this discovery and they were like, he's just like this and no one else is like this. And you put him on screen and he goes. Right. And then he started getting bigger opportunities and people were like, oh, he can't memorize dialogue. He can't take direction. Right. He can't hit marks. You can sort of just let him like spin out. Yeah. But it was hard for people to figure out how to put him in any other context. I love watching him spin out. He is very.

[01:11:05] When I first heard his voice, I was like, what is this character? And then I was like, oh my God, it's just, it's Eddie. It's the guy from Critters. Eddie Deason. He famously was also the voice of Mandark on Dexter's laboratory. Oh yeah. Oh, right. It's Dexter's enemy. Yes. His rival. The sort of grimes to Dexter's. Correct. And he's probably old enough where his entire childhood like was pre-D's nuts. So he avoided that. That's a good point. That's a really good point. Yeah.

[01:11:31] He is very active on Facebook and he is often posting about how he is. Never a good sign. He is often posting. Get ready. Yeah. He's often posting about how he's been banned from local LA diners because the waitresses got uncomfortable by his compliments. Oh boy. He's one of these. With the dummy? You're not allowed to tell a lady to smile anymore. I'm hoping the dummy is the one doing. Which by the way, the dummy is credited in the end credits. The dummy. Got a full laugh out. Good gag.

[01:12:00] I mentioned that as one of his laugh lines. Oh, oh, oh. That's what was on your. Sorry about that. Yeah. Yeah. But just be clear. Two of the laugh lines were things that happened during the credits. Right. Which you have to. Especially if the director's commentary is two and a half hours. Two and a half. I'm going to read something from the dossier that I do think underlines what we're saying, which is Zemeckis and Gayle are like, look, our script was cynical. It was like a dark movie, like a dark comedy.

[01:12:26] And then Steve comes in and, you know, his tone is very different and it becomes more of a screwball comedy. And Spielberg's like, yeah, I was just trying to max out visual gags. My role models were Hell's a Poppin' with Red Skeleton, Preston Sturgis screwball comedies, you know, basically kind of like there shouldn't be like every something should be happening every second. Right. Like that's sort of to me, that's if you think that of a Preston Sturgis movie, you're reading it wrong.

[01:12:54] But like obviously Preston Sturgis movies, the dialogue is very fast. There's lots of jokes. I get that. So intricately set up that the big laughs come from like, oh my God, you put all the pieces in place perfectly and for 15 minutes it's been leading to this very clear, understandable sort of like conflict or whatever it is. I mean, here are a couple of things he said in this retrospective. But I mean, Looney Tunes becomes the thing he's referencing. He brings Chuck Jones in during development and says, Chuck, I want you to come up with the wildest visual gags you can.

[01:13:24] And like Chuck Jones comes up with a gag that's sort of like an explosion of the moment where Tim Matheson drops the bomb and it's rolling towards the speech where the bomb is sentient and it's like rolling through the town on Main Street. Right. And driving everyone crazy and it's like five minutes of the bomb rolling everywhere in town. And Spielberg was like, I don't know how to achieve this. And he was like, it was a great sequence and it would have been great in animation, but I couldn't even begin to figure out how to film it. Yeah.

[01:13:53] And then he says, and this interview is from maybe the early 90s or the late 80s. He goes, you know, today you probably could figure out a way to do it with CGI, computer generated imagery. Right. It's a new concept. What a time capsule that he was like, oh, I used insider lingo. Right. The other thing he said was he was like, at the time people complained that the movie was too loud and too chaotic and cacophonous. And I look at it now and I'm like, it's no different than playing Doom. Oh, wow. Spielberg the gamer.

[01:14:21] By the way, not true. Doom is very like kind of quiet and freaky. Yes, exactly. I swear. But no, but he was like, yeah, I don't think the movie is that different from one of the CD-ROM games that kids would play. Dear God. Well, he was right about current Doom is very similar, but he didn't have a pre-copy of Doom 2016 or whatever. No, he's talking about the old shareware of Doom. Yeah, there's, I mean, you know, like whatever, there's some. There's demons.

[01:14:51] Yeah, there's demons. You know, there's, but it's like, there are moments of just walking down corridors, you know. Right. Doom is like skin-a-marin. Like, the first Doom is like liminal horror. Yes. Much better paced. There's moments of quiet in it. It feels much better than that. Right. Which this movie has no moments of quiet. There's also a BFG in Doom, but it has its name. Yes, there is the big F gun. A BFJ? BFJ.

[01:15:17] Is Quake just like kind of goth Doom? Is that all Quake really did to Doom? Huge question. I guess it's got some more Lovecraft in it too. Yeah. Kind of like a little more. Yeah, but it's. Right. But yeah, it's kind of, I mean, the big Quake thing was a fully 3D engine. It was like this kind of two and a half D thing they were doing with Doom and Wolfenstein. Right, with Doom you can't actually, right, you're strafing and stuff. Yeah. That's the difference. Okay. You still have Quake.

[01:15:44] Anyway, this is the most interesting thing Spielberg says. Okay. He says, I sort of saw the movie 1941 as a big Hollywood musical, like an old fashioned golden age musical. And I had talked with John Williams about doing like eight big, big band numbers. Like big, big numbers. And the Jitterbug Contest is kind of the only thing that remains of that concept. And he's like, I kind of regret not making it just a big musical. Yeah.

[01:16:11] Now that's one of those things I hear where I'm like, that is a good idea. Yeah. But you're insane. Right. Like if that's your idea, then that's a different movie and you should make that movie. Start from square one. Exactly. Now he frames it as. It really just sounds like they're like, oh, could we have explosions and musical sequences and like boobs and yeah, money. And you know, it's just, it's just, they're throwing everything in there. He frames it in this interview as I didn't have the courage of my convictions at that time to follow through on that. Right. And then he's like, you know, I had this anything goes principle.

[01:16:41] And basically at the beginning of Temple of Doom, I do the type of musical number I wanted to do in 1941. There is one other movie Spielberg has made that was originally developed or at least temporarily developed as a musical. And then he welched on it for the same reasons where he's like, I got scared. I didn't know if I could tackle it. I took all the songs out. Amistad. Do you know what movie that is? Correct. No. Do you know what it is, David? I feel like I do.

[01:17:07] And I'm going to be annoyed when I, I'm going to guess. It is spoilers. There's the other movie I put on the same tier as this in Spielberg's filmography. Correct. Correct. Which is also left with one song where the daughter sings on the ship. Which is a nice sequence. But I believe five songs were written for that movie. I mean, he just similarly said, I just, I got freaked out by doing it. And you hear this thing across his career that he always wanted to make a musical.

[01:17:33] And I do think it's fascinating that when he finally did it, he was like, if I start with West Side Story. Right. I'll just make one of the most famous musicals of all time. And then I'll, I'll just fucking nail it. I'll just like do all the other stuff real good. But he kept toying with trying to make his own original musical and then being like, I don't know. I don't know if I can pull it off. Yeah. That's interesting. Madonna. Y'all like his West Side Story? I'm, I'm, I'm a big fan. I think it is one of the most like jaw dropping incredible movies ever made. And Griffin thought it was okay.

[01:18:03] I like it quite a bit, which gets framed as me hating it. I'm setting you up for this. Yes. I think some of it is extraordinary. I think Ansel Elgort is kind of the Achilles heel of the movie, which feeds into a bigger Spielberg failing to identify good young leading men thing that hits the last 10, 15 years of his career. What's he been up to? What's he been up to? Where'd he go? Hey, hi. Hey, Ansel. Where's the boy at? Ansel, come on. Mitch, you like the West, the Spielberg West Side Story? I like the, I like it quite a bit.

[01:18:30] I like, uh, I'm probably in between, uh, uh, Griffin Sims, I would say is probably where I look on it. I'll say this. Great place to be. Cause, cause this made me think of it. It's empty right now. There's no one here. Join us. I'd fit in perfectly. A little puzzle piece. Um, I, I. Jump through the screen. I, um, the, my question to you, and this is a kind of a hot take that the dance sequence in this, the punch fight dance sequence, if that came out this, this decade, would it

[01:18:58] be amongst the, one of the best dance sequences in the last 10 years? This is the fucking thing with Spielberg. You're like, I feel like we talk about this. We use this as like a gauge or descriptor a lot, but the types of movies where like, if you were at a bar and this was playing on TV or projected on the wall behind you with the sound off and you're catching glimpses of it, you're like, does this rule? Right. Do I need to watch this? And the second you actually lock in and watch it sound on as a movie, you're like, this is a mess.

[01:19:27] But if you just looked over your shoulder while you were drinking and saw that staging for 15 seconds, you'd be like, oh, so this is one of his masterpieces. It's, it looks rad. And again, you know, I don't want to belabor red one, but if the, if you took the Krampus set piece and red one, the slap, you did Krampus schlocked, Krampus schlocked, and you, you remove that and instead substituted this jitterbug dance contest. Like it'd be like, Hey, you know what? At least red one has blank. At least that sequence is cool. So yeah, I think you're right.

[01:19:56] But, but I did feel very like, it does feel like a proto West side story. Like, like even the scoring there, the, the John Williams kind of simulacrum of like a Louis Prima sort of a big band number is kind of Leonard Bernstein. It is kind of like, like it's, it's, I don't know that that's one, that's one of the few times in the movie where I feel like everything just kind of comes together. Hot take better than any dance sequence in, in La La Land, for instance. Yeah. I mean, sure. I mean, I don't know how hot of a take that is. No, I mean like, you know, that's, that's that.

[01:20:24] I don't, I don't feel like that's a film that's like, it's choreography is mind blowing. Yeah. It's got some cool shit. But that's fine. But also La La Land is. I think that is the failing of almost all modern movie musicals. Yeah. I think La La Land's even right. I mean, that's why Better Man, which is out in theaters right now, probably, probably gone by the time. Yeah. I was going to say, it might be gone by the time we finished recording. Better Man. Even though it came out three days ago. Exactly. Is really trying to solve those problems of like, you know, it's like, how do I shoot

[01:20:53] a musical sequence in a movie? Do I just have a wide so you can see all the dancing and see the sort of choreography all together? That's boring though. It's static. Or do I cut into the action a bunch and now I'm like, you know, messing up the rhythm of the songs and of the, you know, of everything. And the CGI goop layer never doesn't help the Better Man. No, not at all. You saw Better Man. I saw Better Man. I saw that tiff. And I, uh, I don't hate Better Man weirdly. It's a very confusing movie, but I do think that this, uh, this dance sequence feels so much

[01:21:23] more authentic and real than almost anything I've seen. It's a huge set. It's a huge crowd. Yeah. I think you're spot on. And like, it's the thing I always complain about is I see modern movie musicals and I either feel like the choreography was sort of an afterthought. It was the last piece of the puzzle and the one they didn't devote enough time and practice and thought to. Or the dance has been worked out. And we can't see it. There is not confidence in the way it is shot and cut. We're just not getting to see it. Right. You know, in its sort of full form.

[01:21:52] And it feels like it's always either or. And it's part of what, like, makes you wish that Spielberg had made five musicals in his career where you're like the way he treats action and the basic staging and blocking of like dialogue scenes shows such an understanding of how you should approach a musical. And you'll get those moments that are static. Yeah. But also to your point, Mitch, there is the moment in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull where like the Russian spies or whatever are like circling them.

[01:22:21] And he's at the diner with Mutt Williams. And Mutt like starts a fake fight between. R.I.P. Mutt. Like the preppy college guys. R.I.P. Mutt. A true hero. Not canonically dead. And of course. I know. I know. He had the courage that John Wayne lacked. Yeah. John Wayne, that yellow belly coward. But do you know the moment I'm talking about where Mutt basically like. Vaguely, sure. Yeah. Starts the fight at the diner. He starts a fight between like the preppies and the bikers. So that there's a distraction and they can break out.

[01:22:49] And I'm like, that's like a version of Spielberg almost trying to do the same thing he does in the Zoot Suit sequence visually. Yeah. That he is able to contain within like 25 seconds. Right. Where you're like, there is an economy and a cleanness to that. He's the best at that stuff. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas this is the one time I feel like almost in his entire career where he's not doing the incredible Spielberg math of how do I simplify the sequence as much as possible?

[01:23:14] His greatest skill set is to like show up on the day and go like, how do we make this the fewest number of shots? How do we like find the way to like convey this information as quickly and cleanly as possible? And with a little bit of charm and wit. David. Yeah. You know what I love? How about Quince? New year. New year. New chance for new clothes. Okay. Well, listen to me. I think everyone needs to try and refresh their look with quality pieces, but stay on budget.

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[01:25:27] It's the perfect way to say I love you without breaking the bank. Yeah. 1-800-Flowers. It always delivers. Trust. I trust you when you say that. Yeah, this is all that needs to be said. Ding dong! And who's that at the door? We should check quickly, right? I mean, I know we're almost... We're getting through this ad, Reed. Okay, but I'll check the door. I'll tell you that I got a great bouquet from 1-800-Flowers. It arrived right away. I'm just going to walk to the door quickly. It's really nice. I didn't get roses. I got a sort of... Double blues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hand outraged.

[01:25:56] I'm just in a really, really nice container. Yes? Who can plant a rose bud? My God, Dan. Pluck petunias too. It's been a while. Kyle, how are you? Dan Candyman can. Been a dog's age. It has. It's been a long time since you guys have invited me to come over. No one invited you. I felt like it. I felt it in the air. My ears were burning. Wow, Dan Candyman. You look like crap. It's been a rough couple years. Why?

[01:26:26] What's going on, Dan? I come from the Candyman family, of course. Of the Montreal Candymans. And we're a flower family by trade. But the name does tend to confuse people. Along with me singing a song that's a modified version of the Candyman. The Willy Wonka song. And it always confused people. So I'm actually here today selling candy. Oh, okay. Well, I'll buy some candy for you. To raise money for my high school's basketball team. Okay, cool. How much? You're not going to ask any questions about that? What are M&Ns? Well, you know.

[01:26:56] These are just gray shells. There's not a color in sight. Look, I'll admit. Yes, I'm selling candy. That's not really why I came in here today. Okay, what's going on? I need flowers. I no longer have the hookup. My family has completely divested. Oh, well, and I actually do have great news for you. Because all roses from 1-800-Flowers are picked at their peak. Cared for every step of the way. And shipped fresh to ensure lasting beauty. The bouquet I got came fresh. Sat on our table.

[01:27:26] Looking great for ages. Didn't like wilt after two days. Like some, you know, local sort of bodega flowers you might buy or whatever. Comes with a little packet. A little packet to sort of spruce them up and keep them alive. Yeah. Gosh, because this is a stressful time of year for me. You know Valentine's Day is really rough on Dan Candyman. I don't. Because I'm part of a very large polycule. I have to get a lot of flowers. I hate all your lore. I think it's interesting and people are going to be excited. Well, you better get on it because bouquets are selling fast.

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[01:28:25] Hand-dyed 24 stems in a purple vase with wind chime included? I'm looking at it. Okay, they do have it. Great. What a great product. Would you like to buy 1M? Sure. Fine. Give me an M. There you go. Thanks. That'll be $25. Wait a second. I have to raise money! 1-800-Flowers.com slash check. I will say, so there's the, and I don't know how sequential we're going here, but the-

[01:28:53] I don't think we can because I don't remember the sequence. Like, it's too boring. It's not a coherent sequence of events. It's just like a bunch of shit that happens. I mean, there's big sequences, right? But they don't really knock onto each other that importantly anyway. So Belushi going into the city, and his plane is pursuing the other plane with the horny airplane lady and the guy who's trying to seduce her. Which God bless her. God bless her. Tim Matheson. Tim Matheson. Right. The straight arrow.

[01:29:22] It's two fucking Animal House actors. It does, yeah. Oh, you're right. As horny as the Jaws opening is, I wanted the movie to be more horny, so I was happy with the horny plane stuff. That is fun. So they're like- The titane. It's kind of a titane, yeah. The playing titane. Yeah, yeah. So they're- Yeah, the birthing sequence at the end is really unsettling.

[01:29:48] After she pretends to be a guy's dead son for an hour. The movie's wild, man. Anyway, so there's the two- There's the dog fight, right? The plane pursuing the other plane through the city. And his sense of geography, he uses the Roosevelt Hotel sign as kind of a landmark. And there's four consecutive shots where you're seeing the Roosevelt Hotel. I think that's whatever the sign is. Yeah.

[01:30:17] Like, from four different angles, just so you can get a sense of, like, where all the anti-aircraft batteries and where all the civilians on the ground and where the planes are in relation to each other. And it's just like, this guy is just the fucking best at this. Yeah. This is so- Yeah, correct. He makes this- The 3D environment is represented in a 2D plane in a way that makes complete visual sense to anyone who's watching it. So yeah, you do have stuff like that where it's just like, again, this is just like really exceptional craft.

[01:30:44] Which, by the way, there is a moment in that where I got annoyed where they're like, we're going to take Hollywood to Highland. And I was like, you're at Hollywood in Highland. When you remember when the tank guy was yelling that? Oh, yeah. It fucking annoyed geography. Right, right. Sorry. To the point of what Sims just said. No, no, no. What's crazy is that, like, he can't stop himself from doing that shit. From, like, the constant, like, geographical centering, like, giving the audience the visual information to understand the relationship between images.

[01:31:13] Story-wise, he is almost pointedly doing the opposite. Like, you saying it's hard to recount this movie in order. It feels like there is very little relationship between scenes in this movie. And, like, I understand part of it is that it's doing this kind of tapestry, like, 10 different plot thread stuff. Yeah. But it's, like, actually hard to keep track of any level of cause and effect in this movie. 100%. And part of it is, just realizing this as we were saying it, like, there are, like, six

[01:31:40] different fundamental misunderstandings in this movie. Right. Like, unlike something like a lot of these sort of, like, satirical war movies, right? Where you're, like, the Russians are coming. There's, like, one thing of, like, a Russian shows up in town and they think it's an invasion. You know, like, Doctor Strangelove, one wrong call is made kind of shit. But this movie just keeps stacking up misunderstandings. And they don't really interact. I mean, some interact and some don't. But a lot of them don't. Right. Exactly.

[01:32:10] So you're, like... Like, the submarine thing kind of is a self-contained story. And it sort of has nothing to do with Belushi, who's just on his shit. Right. But thinks he's being attacked because Tim Matheson is trying to get laid because Nancy Allen only wants to fuck inside a plane. Right. Right. And then there's, like, the Warren Oates character who's kind of, like, the Sterling Hayden character for Doctor Strange. Loves violence. But we barely see him. Yes. And he's, like, only spoken of for a while.

[01:32:37] And then when he shows up, it's kind of, like, an hour into the movie and you don't care. Right. And you're, like, they're right. Everyone's right that the Japanese do want to attack California. But also the Japanese have no understanding of geography. So you have this whole misunderstanding based on where they are. Yeah. So it's, like, everyone reacting to a threat that is real, that they're misunderstanding, but also the people who are the threat are fucking up. The threat is also not real. No. But, of course, it is real. It's all. And that World War II is real. Yes. Right.

[01:33:05] And will be a thing. Just not here. Right. This ties into the Treat Williams character. I didn't know if he was a good guy. I was, like, is he going to end up with a girl at the end of the movie? And then. He's an asshole. He's somewhere between Bluto and the Hillside Strangler. He's, like, he's either, like, a fun villain or the worst man in the world. He's, like, trying to grab his. No, he's kind of. He sucks. Yeah.

[01:33:34] He's kind of, right, just a straight up sort of sociopath bully. Like, I mean, Treat Williams is fine at that. But you're kind of like, what's this character doing here? Bob Gale was saying that one of their big ideas they had when they were, like, Spielberg saying, like, keep on coming up with more, more and more. And they were like, you know what's a funny setup? A guy desperate to lose his virginity in the middle of warfare. Yeah. Sure. And I was like, okay.

[01:33:58] And they're like, so we had this whole scene written where they're, like, hiding out under tanks trying to fuck because the guy's so worried he's going to die before he loses his virginity. And then as he's explaining it, I realize he's talking about the Treat Williams character. And in the movie, there's the reveal of the tank moving and her running away in terror because he's been trying to sexually assault her. Yeah, that's the same. And it's not just that he's been, like, a pushy creep the whole movie.

[01:34:25] That moment is, like, he has grabbed her and pulled her under a tank. Yes. And she is, like, running away and pulling her skirt back up. And I'm like, how did this go from this being a character you're kind of rooting for to get laid? Well, I will say that's the thing. Like, him being, like, a rapier blued up. Right. Yes. 100%. But my understanding is, and I didn't watch the extended cut, my understanding of the extended cut, there is a scene where he fucks a pie, right?

[01:34:51] Yeah, there's also a big, like, glory hole scene where they're, like, spying on girls in the shower. Yeah. And then a woman comes out and yanks his dick. A dog jizzes into a, what is it? An eclair. An eclair in Van Wilder. Yeah, dog cum eclair. Right. Yeah. There's also a scene where Retreat Williams is looking for hair gel. Oh, interesting. And he finds it, right? On the ear of a friend. It's a fact. It is. Belushi's cum.

[01:35:21] It's just one of those things where America was like, there's this great sequence with the hair gel. Everyone loves it. And I'm like, so what's the sequence? Like, ah, he jerks off and comes on his ear and it sticks there. And I'm like, it doesn't do that. That's not a thing that happens. It is so funny. That's never happened to anyone in the history of society. They talk about the Farrelly brothers. Cum isn't glue. The Academy Award winning Farrelly brothers? Yeah. Talk about. Well, just one of them. Did they not, did Bobby not have any credit? No. That's insane. Poor Bobby.

[01:35:49] They talk about how when they were filming that on the day, Stiller was spiraling over the logic. This doesn't make any fucking sense. Why would it go all the way, like, just vertically into my ear? And you're like, that's not how, like, cum holds. It looks wrong. Like, what are you talking about? And there's the moment earlier where he, like, comes, she knocks on the door and he's like, oh, hold on. And it's like he's looking for where the cum went so he could clean it up.

[01:36:15] And in that moment, he turns 360 degrees and you see there's nothing on his ear. And they were like, Stiller was freaking out over this. And we were just like, Ben, you got to trust us. It's funny. And I feel like there's so many stories about Stiller doing something like that. And it being like he's freaking out over nothing. He's overthinking it. But this one, I'm kind of with him. Yeah. He was right. And yet, results were undeniable. She put that fucking cum in her hair in that movie.

[01:36:41] I made $200 million because everyone at every office was like, you got to see what this fucking hair gel is. I remember when my mom and dad were just laughing so much at that moment. I saw it with my mom and dad and sister and they were just going nuts. And I was like, that's fucking gnarly. Like, like, that was the poster for the movie was her in a red dress and like a Marilyn Monroe seven year itch pose with the hair flipped up. And every article in review I remember about that movie is like, you're not going to believe what happens in the hair gel scene.

[01:37:11] You have to see it for yourself. By the way, another issue, Treat Williams, not a virgin. There's the bad. No. He's not a virgin at all. Rest in peace, Treat. But like, he's like. He's a Chad. He's a Chad. He doesn't read as. I mean, I guess you could buy it as like, oh, it's all, you know, it's all show with him. And he's thinking actually, right. Like covering up for. But it doesn't make any sense in this movie. It's a game of telephone of like this thing getting like so far away from the original idea. Have you guys seen used cars?

[01:37:39] The Zemeckis movie that he made shortly after this with Kurt Russell. I've never seen used cars. I've never seen it, but I think it is maybe playing at the, at the Vista right now. It's worth seeing. It's far better than this movie. It is incredibly funny. And it is the exact tone this movie is going for. This movie is close to that movie in like just manic tone. Yeah. But used cars is about something really stupid, which is used car salesmen across the street from each other basically getting into like a prank war. Correct. And this movie is about World War II.

[01:38:09] Yes. You know, and it's sort of like the tone is all wrong. And maybe there's a way to make it right for 1941 that they just didn't figure out. But with used cars, it's like, yeah, just simplify a little bit. And then I can, you know, root for people and think they're stupid. Without spoiling it, used cars also builds to one big set piece that is like a logistical production like Wowser. Right. And that maybe was not really expensive because the movie didn't cost that much, but certainly is like a big to do.

[01:38:36] And it like earns pulling off this one sequence where the movie at that point has been so moderate in scale that you're like laughing at the excess of it because it's so out of nowhere. You can't believe suddenly this movie is heightening to this level versus like 1941 starting at that point. He also Spielberg in this fucking documentary, I'm quoting 8000 times, says like, you know, he's like, I'm proud of the movie. I had fun making it. I should have let Zemeckis direct it. Sure.

[01:39:06] Their voice and their sensibility was like they're on the page and I didn't get it and I didn't have a take and they were much angrier and more political and like they maybe could have pulled it off. But there's the incredible like ripple effect of like, I want to hold your hand bombs, which they make while they're sort of developing this script comes out before this. This bombs and then people are like, oh, those guys are trouble. I want to hold your hand is great.

[01:39:36] Right. But it's like a flop. And then they write Spielberg's first flop and they wanted to make back to the future next. And Spielberg was going to produce it. And they were like, if you produce our next movie, we will seem like your cronies and no one will ever take us seriously on our own. Wow. So Zemeckis like puts out, I'm a director for hire. I need to just do a studio job and like impress people. Gets Romancing the Stone, over delivers on Romancing the Stone. Romancing the Stone is a success. Good movie.

[01:40:05] And then that leads to him getting to make Back to the Future with Spielberg as producer and everyone like trusting that he's his own guy. If they had directed 1941, it probably would have been better than this. But I don't think it would have. If like we would have not had the next 10 to 15 years of Zemeckis, we got, I'm guessing. Wow. Yeah. And I also like I don't know if like a stronger directorial voice.

[01:40:32] I haven't read the script, but a stronger directorial voice or a more dialed in directorial voice to what the script is going for necessarily compensates for the problems in the script, which I think is the main issue with this movie. It's just a little overstuffed and the narrative is hard to track. Griffin, going back to Treat Williams real quick. Did you feel seen up on screen seeing a character who's defining characteristic as he hates eggs? Does hate eggs. Wives. To a degree, you can't imagine. Wow.

[01:41:01] Every time the egg shit was called out, I like physically held a thumbs up to the screen, which I was not doing at any other point in the film. I'm like, I hate that I'm rooting for this guy, that I'm relating to him. Well. But he's right about eggs. Zemeckis figured out the Treat Williams character with Biff. He basically, who also hates manure. You're right. The manure bit at the end is the same payoff as the eggs bit at the end. He ends in a pile of it. And also Treat Williams.

[01:41:28] He's like similar, a date rapist who you like in Back to the Future, you enjoy his comeuppance. Yes. If he's vindicating. And in this one, I guess Treat Williams also gets kind of like assaulted by the lady is kind of what his comeuppance is. A little bit. But then like, that's a good point of like this, the Wally character feels like Crispin Glover in Back to the Future with like less of a take. Yes. Way less of a take. Right? Yeah. Here's the thing I want to throw just like into the conception of this movie, right?

[01:41:59] And like the idea that like Zemeckis maybe would have directed this better, but should this not have been directed by anybody? Why, Zemeckis, have you had this experience as well? Because I was thinking this while watching it of like reading scripts that come across as like potential jobs or just like things that are like floating around the industry that you get your eyes on and you're like, oh my God, this is so funny. This is the funniest script I've read in a long time. And then the movie comes out two years later. It's a disaster. But the movie isn't really that different from the script.

[01:42:28] And you like the realization I've had sometimes of like there are certain things that are funny on paper that just immediately fall apart if they are realized where you're like, this is funny in mind's eye. And the second you have real people doing it in front of like a proper set, you can't stop thinking about the fact that like, oh, World War Two is happening. Sure. You know, like shit like that. I know what you're describing. I can't think of a specific example. Well, it happens to us every week with we write the Doughboys episodes. That's true.

[01:42:58] The scripts are great. Fully scripted. The scripts are really, really good. Yeah. You have Rosenthal do a pass and then you're like, this is the best one yet. I know exactly what you were talking about just with auditioning and stuff. And like, for me, it's always more like, oh, this like kind of, this works. Like, this is like, it seems like the person gets this or something. And then when you see it made, you're like, ooh, something was lost in translation or whatever. But I can't think of it. Also, very often with like kind of high concept special effects comedies where I read it and

[01:43:27] I'm like, this one's actually well written. It has good jokes and good structure. Yeah. And then like the execution of those things is so fine for like how it stays funny, but within stakes. Like the one I kept thinking of while watching this, a radically different movie, but like The Sitter, the Jonah Hill, David Gordon Green movie was like this really hot script. And it was like, oh my God, there are like 10 incredible lines on every page of this thing. And then you watch it as a movie and you're like, it's less funny the second they're actual kids.

[01:43:57] Yeah. Sure. Yeah. You know, cause you just can't stop thinking about like, is this like child abuse? Right. Like, yes. I know. I'm trying to think of a specific version of that, but like, I mean, like I know that there's been so many instances of it. And I do have a couple in my head. I'm not going to say them, but, but, uh, because I don't, I'm not going to say them, but, uh, but I remember, I just, just remember when like year one was coming out. You mentioned it earlier. Yeah. Perfect example. How excited everyone was about that movie and the cast was gray.

[01:44:25] And then that movie just fell apart. I mean, but that was like the hottest script that like the hottest people were attaching to comedy legend, directing it, new comedy stars starring in it. Right. And it's like first, like new project after knocked up. Year one. It kind of feels like an old Mel Brooksie movie, right? He's bringing greatness back. You know, caveman. Everyone was like, this script is funny on paper, but it's one of those scripts where you're like, cool. It'll take $60 million to mount. Right. Because it needs like giant sets and extras and whatever.

[01:44:53] And you watch it and it just like falls apart in real time. Can I, can I throw out a theory? Yeah. Is the number one cursed? Okay. Fuck. Okay. Let's. Movies with one in them. 1941. Year one. Red one. Red one. Well, red one. Sure. Yeah. But that's three. That's three bad ones. I can't like look up movies with the number one. Like, you know what I mean? I don't know where to summon a list here. Transformers one. I like that movie. Quite good, but was a big flop. Didn't do well. Did not hit.

[01:45:24] Transformers one is one of those movies where it's like, you know, it starts out with like, oh, I'm just like a ordinary transformer working in the mines. And I'm like, he's a fucking robot that turns into shit. Like it's such a weird thing. And yet I was charmed. That's the thing. By the last 10 minutes, you're like, is this a perfect diamond cut screen? It's. Did you guys see Transformers one? I did not. Can a one be in the title? Like 1917. See, it's 19 and 17. There's no one. There's no one. No. It doesn't like another one. Yeah.

[01:45:54] That doesn't count. How about this for recent bomb? Horizon. One said out loud. Horizon and American Saga chapter one. Wow. I mean, certainly a big flop. Yeah. But a big flop. Bit of a flop. Air Force One is the only title that's coming to mind. Yeah. Well, that. Well-liked hit. Right. That has stood the test of time and has one in the title. And I'm a huge fan of the airplane when a certain president is aboard. The current one. By the time this episode drops. Ready Player One. Finally. Wow. I'm a huge fan. I think it would be a great fight over. Yeah.

[01:46:23] I think Ready Player One is a terrific film. But a lot of people don't. Yeah. And it's one of. Loaded Weapon One? Hmm. I'm saying that's a flop. I've never seen it. I wonder if it's any good. I have seen it. I remember it making me laugh when I was like 13. It's just funny that it's Emilio Estevez and Samuel L. Jackson. You're like, oh, so it's like an action movie? They're like, no, no, no. It's a parody. And I'm like, but those guys could just be in an action. Yes, right. Yeah.

[01:46:49] They could have actually been alternate casting in any of the Buddy Cop movies of the previous five years. So are they funny? And I guess I've never had the question answered for me. I mean, Samuel L. Jackson can pretty much do anything. Agreed. That movie must have been Emilio getting jealous of Charlie. This is the thing of his fucking brother. Right? Yeah. That he was like, I can fucking make fun of serious movies too. You can do hot shots. I'll do this. Yeah. Yeah. Weiger's theory is bad. It starts to fall apart. There's a ton of good ones. I just looked. You got Godzilla minus one. You got. That one was good.

[01:47:18] You got Good One, one of my favorite movies of last year. One for Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Yeah. 101 Dalmatians. I'm not the biggest Rogue One fan, but it is a good movie. It's a pretty good movie. All right. You fucked up bad. God. Yeah. Yeah. This is terrible. Theory sucks. I want to say about John Belushi, who we've talked about, but you know. We've never covered. Well, obviously, because he's made a lot of movies. Yeah. Yeah. He was, as we've, you know, Spielberg was like obsessed with SNL.

[01:47:46] He knew, I guess, you know, like many people that it like had a lot of juice and he was like kind of a groupie for the first season. He went to almost every taping. I was going to say, wow. Did we talk about this in our group text? Of course. Yeah. So that's like, that's like much publicized. I think it is kind of dorky of him. Yeah. Much publicized that during like those first five seasons, he would go to almost every taping. He was hanging out. And he was like entranced by the production and like the machinery and everything.

[01:48:13] What's crazier is that I have heard from people who currently work on SNL. He still hangs out. He still goes to more episodes than he doesn't. Yeah. I've heard that too. That he'll just show up and they'll be like, yeah, he like took his private jet. And he's like giving dismukes notes. He's standing in the back. No, he like doesn't act with him. He's just like, I love watching this happen. I mean, good for him. If I'm Steven Spielberg, I would like to, I would just do the things I wanted to do. Totally. Wait, was he at the infamous taping depicted in Saturday night?

[01:48:40] Wait, was he in attendance at that real taping? I'm not actually sure about that. I mean, that taping was so crazy. Everything was falling apart. Actually, I heard that there is a moment where Sammy Fableman is in the background. Now playing a dual role like Belushi. Yeah. In one shot, he's actually playing Sammy Fableman. Right.

[01:49:04] If you look really closely, it's eagle-eyed viewers watching Reitman's Saturday Night. You can see an actor dressed like Steven Spielberg is laying one of the famous bricks in those final seconds before George Carlin's monologue. I finally did it. Matthew Rhys, kind of a curveball as Carlin, not bad. Kind of good. Yeah. This is the thing. I'm going to say this. Go ahead. I think I fully hate that movie. Fair enough. And I try to reserve throwing the H-word out at films. Sure, sure.

[01:49:34] But that movie drove me insane. Yeah. I think it basically has like 10 borderline great performances in it. Yeah, there's some good performances in it. There's some bad ones too. But I did think this watching 1941 last night where I'm like, if they announced tomorrow that Steven Spielberg wanted to make a movie about any version of the first five years of SNL, even just having seen Saturday Night, I'd be like, sign me the fuck up. Sure.

[01:49:58] I will say, I'm seeing here in the notes that Steven Spielberg was the guy who told Agent Birdie to do the Rasta dance and try to sing Sean Paul. Yeah. He also told Ashley Simpson to do the lip syncing. He told Ashley Simpson, right, just lip sync it. And he did give a picture of the Pope to Sinead O'Connor. He did. He didn't know what she was going to do with it. Those are the only three times he's ever given notes. Yeah, he was just like, hey, do you want this? Yeah, it's probably comedy. He actually gives a picture of the Pope to every musical guest. She's just the only one who did anything. Everyone else just folds it up, puts it in their pocket. You should rip up a picture of the two Popes on Doughboy and see what happens.

[01:50:27] You should. You should. Wait, have a Pope month. Yeah. Pope month is fun. New Pope. Conclave. Yeah. New Pope. Man, if the Doughboys went to the Vatican. Yeah, Doughboys go to the Vatican and an invisible force throws them out. Like, you try to cross the border and you're just like expelled. What would Vatican month be called? Oh, man. Boy. This is the pun master. Is there like a McDonald's in Nevada? Like, is there like a... Yeah, I wonder if there's a Vatican City Sparrow. There's got to be something. Is there really?

[01:50:57] Yeah, Vatican's pretty good. Vatican's pretty good. Vatican City. Wait a second. Vatican City's pretty good. Is there actually a Sbarro's of the Vatican City? There's no way there's a Sbarro's. No. There's got to be something. I haven't seen Conclave yet. Do they show a Sbarro or anything like that? Yeah, they get a big pizza in Conclave. I mean, Two Popes actually does have a pizza sequence. Oh, right. Two Popes. It does. Yeah.

[01:51:26] Where Hopkins says, that's my pizza. That's a real sequence of the Two Popes. I'll say, I did hear a rumor about the Vatican City Sbarro's. What's that? That I just established may or may not exist. Uh-huh. I heard a rumor that someone I know went there and they looked in the marinara tank. Oh, God. And they were doing a Jaws parody inside of them. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then they went back the next day and in the marinara, they were doing a parody of the opening of 1941. Uh-huh.

[01:51:56] I hear that the Sbarro at the Vatican City is where they store all the holy water. Oh, yeah. I've heard that, too. For the entire world. Uh-huh. It's wet. Remember the joke is that it's wet? Yes. No, he knows. He knows. We all know the joke. And you guys should listen to Griffin Sbarro episode of Doughboys for a moment where I was making dinner, I think, while I was listening to it. Yeah. And I started to have that moment with comedy podcasts sometimes where I'm like, am I having like a panic attack or a brain event?

[01:52:25] Or have they just been talking about fucking water for a half hour? Like, it feels like you've lost your mind. It sounds like you hate us, which is the right reaction to it. It was so funny. Which, by the way, my reaction to anything Saturday Night Live does is like most comedians is that they can do no wrong. I love Saturday Night Live. Of course. And Saturday Night Live and everything about it is great. You text us every Saturday night at 1 a.m. You were like, my review, 8 plus. It's another one for the record books, boys. 10 out of 10. The streak continues. Yeah.

[01:52:54] No, real quick. Real quick. Sorry. I just, I heard at the Vatican. I remember at the Vatican City Sparrow that in the pasta water where they cook the tortellinis that the shape of water guy hangs out in there. The fish guy? Yeah, he's in there. The monster? I was coming up with a Sally Hawkins take and I think you had the better one. I was drafting it in my head. She jerks off in the tortellini one. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to do. Oh, boy. The shape of water guy got fully baptized in the Sparrow.

[01:53:24] He's hardcore Catholic now. He's like a J.D. Vance late in life conversion. Right. He's weird about it. Yeah. Right. He keeps saying ecumenical and you're like, relax. Do you think, to go on a Saturday Night Live tangent, do you think Saturday, do you think it is the most bulletproof of all shows still? Because I still do think that people are not as critical as I know comedians are of it. Yeah. It means publicly. What are you talking about? It gets so much shit, though. It does get shit.

[01:53:51] But I think you're right, Mitch, that I will hear people say, oh, my God, SNL is so irrelevant. Why is that still on the air? And I'm like, you clearly don't engage with it anymore. Right. But you cannot deny that this show has basically stayed culturally important for the first 20 years of SNL. It's like, oh, they're obviously peaks and valleys. Yeah.

[01:54:15] I would say they've basically remained kind of center of the culture for like 25 years uncontested. And it's also kind of one of those like, well, why don't you go do a better one? And no one's ever like, whatever. No one can pull it off. And also, this movie is kind of this. You want this movie to be an SNL feeling movie. And it's. It should be. And it's not. Right. That's probably the kind of anarchic feeling Spielberg wants.

[01:54:40] And that's why, just to finish my point about John Belushi, that character was a minor character in the script. And they kind of beef it up once they cast him. Right. His. That character was only supposed to enter into the film basically at the point where he lands on the ground. He was supposed to just be a last act. Here's one final element of chaos. Cast Belushi there. Like, we got to thread Belushi through the first two thirds of this. Belushi and Aykroyd are both doing SNL. They could only do three days a week of filming.

[01:55:07] And Belushi, I don't know if you guys know this, was very interested in using the drug cocaine all the time. Does JJ have a citation for that? And Spielberg, I think probably because Belushi died so young and so on, you know, has always just been like, it was wonderful working with him. It was a great time. But I think on set, he was a bit of a nightmare. And at one point Spielberg yelled at him like, you can't do this to me. Like, for $350,000, you got to show up on time. Because like, Belushi was always late to set and didn't know his lines and stuff.

[01:55:36] But like, that's how Animal House was made, right? Where he had like two to three days off per week. And he would like shuttle back and forth and was like delirious. Right. And it comes out the year before this. And it's like a revolutionary thing. He's amazing in it. It's like culturally like shattering. Right? Do you guys like Belushi? I love him. Yeah. I mean, I think he's like, I think all of us, he's like a little bit before our time. Very much so. But I think if you watch his, you know, totemic like performances, it's like, okay, this guy had the juice.

[01:56:04] And, you know, obviously life tragically cut short. It was interesting to see a movie that I, like, I see Belushi doing stuff that I haven't seen before with 1940. Not that he did something different. But I'm saying like, oh, this is just footage of him I haven't watched because I'd never seen the movie. Right. And it was like, I got, I get it. You know what I mean? I get why he was a star. And that's the thing. Like, as I said before, every time he's on screen, it at least resembles a comedy. Yes. Which you can't say for, like, John Candy and Dan Aykroyd. You can't.

[01:56:33] The other wildly funny people in this movie who are all basically at the peaks of their careers. Belushi's the only one who, like, actually has that level of juice. To your point, there are basically, if you're, like, discounting small supporting roles, there are four Belushi, like, movies. Even in Animal House, he's in a lot less of it than people remember. But it's Animal House, 1941, Blues Brothers. It's five. I'm sorry. Continental Divide, Neighbors. And Neighbors, which I've never seen. Those are the five movies where, like, Belushi's above the title.

[01:57:03] His face is the biggest on the poster. Right. I was such a big SNL kid. I discovered SNL when I was, like, eight or nine, and the video store across the street from us had a bunch of VHSs of the first five seasons of SNL. So I was, like, rabidly watching first five seasons SNL. Right. And it was, like, canonized for me in this massive, massive way. And, like, my father was such a big Belushi fan. He showed me Animal House and Blues Brothers way too young. And I was sort of, like, raised at the altar of this guy.

[01:57:30] I remember at some point when I was young, my father sang to me. And then, you know, Steven Spielberg made 1941, which was this big flop. And I was, like, what's that? And he was, like, it's like a war comedy with Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi. And I was, like, oh, so it's the best movie ever made. And he was, like, no, it sucks and it's not funny. And I was, like, how is that possible?

[01:57:52] But I think that's, like, the way in which this was received in a way that also doesn't help this movie upon release is, like, the idea of, like, oh, my God, Spielberg is going to work with the most exciting people in comedy. Like, the people who are fucking burning down the institutions. And the first, these trailers that I was searching for, that fucking tagline I wanted, the first teaser trailer for this movie, which is a year before the film comes out, was by all accounts directed by John Milius.

[01:58:20] And I would say is funnier than the entirety of the finished film is, is John Belushi landing a plane and then doing direct address to the camera. Sort of, like, war ad, like, I'm out there fighting for you. I need to enlist you to come see my movie next year. Like, it's, he's pitching next Christmas. And it's just Belushi doing straight-to-camera chaos. And if you see that trailer and it says, like, from the director of Jaws and Close Encounters, one year from now there's a John Belushi comedy.

[01:58:50] And then you sit in the theater a year later and this is what you get. Like, the poster is, like, his giant caricaturized head. Right. 20 minutes of him total maybe in the movie, right? Maybe. Maybe. And a lot of it is silent. Like, it's just him driving a plane. But, like, that's what they were leading with. Yeah, well, what else are you going to fucking lead with? The second teaser trailer shows you, like, a model set of Los Angeles. Yeah.

[01:59:15] And then giant stone 1941 letters, numbers, rise out of the ground. And then it just does, like, Superman flying credits of every cast member. Yes. Which you go into the list of, like, Ned Beatty, Christopher Lee. Trishiro Mifune. All this shit. Right, yeah. It's just giving you all the names and then says, like, the most explosive comedy event in the year. Those first two trailers show combined zero seconds of footage of the movie. And all they're doing is get ready. This is going to be the biggest shit of all time.

[01:59:45] Like, they, like, put a fucking target on their backs. Yeah, they did. They also meant to make it for $12 million and it cost $31. Which is so much slower than I even thought it was, honestly. But I guess with 1979, that's quite a bit, right? But... It's a lot of money. It would be over $100 million. It basically made its money back domestically, barely. And that's it. It made some more worldwide. So I don't think it was a total disaster. But it made Spielberg look bad. Because Jaws had gone over budget and over schedule.

[02:00:16] And now, you know, Close Encounters, they kind of fucked around. Right, exactly. And, like, kind of made it seem like a low-budget movie and turned into a really big-budget movie. And so by Raiders is when he's like, I need to demonstrate that I can, like, contain a budget. Which he does. And there's two where, like, you can get away with it if you keep making one of the highest-grossing movies of all time. Right. And then this time it's like, if you're just breaking even, you're done with your shit.

[02:00:40] When it came out, like I said, it basically turned a profit. Pauline Kael did like it. Pauline Kael is, like, one of his earliest fans. But then turns on him by Raiders. Turns on him for Raiders. In the first movie, she's like, fuck this, it's kiddie bullshit. Wow. But largely, critics hated it. And, you know, it would, like you said, Griff, like, they had just set themselves up for disappointment. Like, you know, the audiences were just, I think, expecting the funniest and biggest movie.

[02:01:10] And it's like, you're not getting funny. I guess you're getting big. Yeah. But the big isn't funny. No. And it feels like you're being yelled at. Yeah, very strange. That's insane to turn on over Raiders. Yeah. So, I mean, like, I. Yeah, Pauline Kael was basically like Raiders. She was just like, boring. This is, like, schematic. He's, like, lost the plot. And she was the one person who, when Sugar Land Express came out, her review is like, this is one of the greatest debuts by a filmmaker ever. He's going to be one of the great American filmmakers. Like, called it dead on.

[02:01:40] And then by Raiders, she's like this fucking kid playing with his stupid toys. Yeah. John Candy is, like, barely in this movie. Yes. But he does have. Barely in this movie. But he does have, like, one of the few hard jokes that worked for me, Griffin, which is the, when Dan Aykroyd gets knocked out, he gets hit in the head. And John Candy's like, oh, he always had a glass head. Yeah, that's funny. I kind of like that. Glass head. There you go. There's also, he also has the bit where him and, who was the actor's name? John McRae.

[02:02:10] Yeah. Hal McRae. John McRae. Who was an NFL player? Hal McRae is a baseball player. What am I talking about? Frank McRae. Frank McRae. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That guy was an NFL player. That's a football player. Yeah. Where they get, he gets soot on his face and he looks like a black man and then he throws flower. So the flower part is like, why is he throwing flower at him anyways? Yes. And then they laugh at each other while Candy's panicking because they look like they're doing opposite minstrel. It's like a very weird bit that goes on for a while. It's weird.

[02:02:39] He's also in news cars. I actually liked that. I actually liked that there was like- Oh, yes. Because he's like, to the back of it, he tells Candy to go to the back of the tank. And I think I actually liked that there was like a guy particip- even though it's white people who wrote this joke. I'm like, there's a man participating in these kind of racy jokes, which before it's like we're pointing and laughing at- Yes, sure. The movie is pointing and laughing at people. That he's more active.

[02:03:04] But it's like, it's one of those things where it's like, I'm not even framing it as like a punching down, like punching up thing. It just so often in this movie, you're like, I don't understand who the target of the joke is, right? And like for how much Spielberg would cite the Marx Brothers and like Looney Tunes and these things that had this sort of like chaotic, a million things are happening and nothing's too big moments.

[02:03:27] All of those things have a very simple, like innate setup of like the Marx Brothers usually go into fancy places. They're at opera houses or like dinner parties and you surround them with a bunch of, well, I never. And you're like, wait, I want to see those people be taken down. Yeah. Right. It's funny to see Margaret Dumont get taken down to bed. Bugs Bunny can be an asshole to a hunter because a hunter is pointing a gun in his hole and he has to like fight to survive. Right.

[02:03:55] And that way it's funny when he like is a stinker. This movie is like everyone's just yelling at everyone and doing shit. Yes. And you're like, I don't know. Like I have no perspective on who I'm supposed to be. I don't want to say who I'm supposed to be rooting for, but just sort of like who any joke is at the expense of. Why did John Katie throw flour at him? It doesn't even, we don't know. It doesn't even make sense. That whole, and again, yeah, you're not sure who like, who's supposed to be the butt of this joke. And then within that tank though, there's all sorts of shit like that happening.

[02:04:25] Like there's, there's also Dan Aykroyd who's like, yeah, he, Dan Aykroyd puts a sack of oranges over his head. Yes. And then he puts the two oranges on his eyes and is like, I am a bug. And that's the sort of things like if that's in the script, I like, I have no idea how they reached that point. But like, it's probably just not in the script. So it's probably just not in the script. Right. So Spielberg is just pointing a camera at a funny guy and saying, I don't know, do something funny. And so it just feels completely random.

[02:04:52] I mean, it's very funny to think of me of like interior, you cut back to interior tank. I'm a bug. And it cuts back to whatever else. Here's like a great encapsulation of the movie for any listeners who did not bother to watch it. Right. There are like eight major plot threads just within this one thread of the tank guys. Right. You have John Candy and Frank McRae doing this like race swapping play. Right. Then you have Dan Aykroyd in the back.

[02:05:21] This is all in the last like 20 minutes of the movie when it's reaching a fever pitch. For a movie that starts at a fever pitch. Right. So like Candy McRae are doing this. Aykroyd is directly behind them with oranges on his eyes going, I'm a bug. And then immediately after that, the tank runs through the walls of a paint factory. Yes. Into giant vats of colored paint making like huge colored explosions. And you're like, there is too much going on. This is far too. And none of it has to do with anything else. You can't keep track of it.

[02:05:49] And this is just one of the strings. And then we're like cutting back to like Tim Matheson like trying to stop. Fucking in a plane or Ned Beatty like blowing up his own house or whatever. Yeah. You know, like shit where you're just like. We didn't even talk about the Ned Beatty shit. Well, because like what's going on with that? I don't know. It's just sort of like. I want to shout out Greg Jean, I think is his name. Okay. Who did the miniatures on this movie. Yes. He's a legendary miniature guy. He'd done Close Encounters.

[02:06:14] Because, I mean, Spielberg says this, like they did the most incredible job like making Hollywood Boulevard. Like the details on all these buildings are amazing. Like it's an incredibly masterful technical achievement. Like what they're doing all in the service of the bullshit you're talking about and blowing it all up. Greg Jean, I also want to say, did Star Trek The Next Generation's miniatures. He built the ships. Yeah.

[02:06:41] And there's a famous, my favorite episode of Star Trek, one of my favorite episodes is Cause and Effect, which is the episode where they get stuck in a time loop because a ship keeps coming out of a black hole and crashing into them. And like then the day, it's a Groundhog Day episode. And when that episode ends, they avoid the ship and it turns out that it's the USS Bozeman and Kelsey Grammer is the captain and he like calls in. He's like, hello, how are you doing? And it turns out he's from like 80 years ago. He's been stuck in a time loop for 80 years.

[02:07:07] And the USS Bozeman is NCC 1941 as homage to this film. Wow. There you go. And when Kelsey Grammer falls into the time warp, does he go, oh my lord. It's just so funny that it's Kelsey Grammer. Yeah. It's like Frasier era Kelsey Grammer wearing an old Star Trek uniform. Thank you for recognizing what I was getting at once. That was very good. Thank you. Anyway. David. Yes. If I know one thing about you. Okay.

[02:07:37] It's that you're tired of figuring out what's for dinner every night after night, especially on those busy weekdays. When you walk into the studio every day and you go, I'm so tired. I go, don't even finish the sentence. I know the one root cause of that problem. Busy weekdays. I just said it. Busy weekdays. No, I'm saying it's you trying to decide what to make for dinner night after night. Busy weekdays. How do you make my weekdays less busy? These issues are linked. I go, how are the twins sleeping? You go, great.

[02:08:06] No problem there. I'm sleeping through the night. Yes. I have to feed my family. You have more mouths to feed. And that is true. Although they just eat. They don't eat lovely meals. But I have to make a lovely meal. And I get home and my time limit is, my time window is limited. And it is hard to just kind of, you know, find a magic recipe in the fridge every single day. What a compelling personal. It is. Sort of experience this is. Yeah. I mean, if you really want to get into it. I do. It's basically like it's 530, right?

[02:08:37] Dinner's got to kind of be on the table because everyone's going to bed around seven. Right. Podcasting has ended 15 minutes before that. That is why anyone who listens to the show might notice that I'm a little. But look, it's easy to find time to eat well. There we go. Because you can get 50 wholesome, hassle-free meals to choose from every week to get delivered right to your door. These HelloFresh ready-made meals that go from fridge to fork. Yeah. In just three minutes. One, two, three minutes. That's the journey I like fridge to fork.

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[02:10:34] Gail said. Bob Gail. When they were just like running wild, just throwing any single idea at the screenplay, right? And he was like, once we like were commissioned to write this movie, we just start doing a ton of research and looking into all the things that happened like in this area, in this time period. Interesting, weird stories from the war that we could fold into the script and the way that like the Beatty thing is based on something that happened. They were looking for real life inspiration. And he was like, I found out about this incredible thing.

[02:11:02] I'm going to speak about this very quickly and probably get a lot of the major details wrong, but just tried to do a quick overview. Cool. There's yeah. Get ready. There's this thing called the Boeing Wonderland, which was when the Boeing company was making all the war planes, all their factory plants where they were being constructed and housed. They were worried were going to be targets by the Japanese to be bombed or whatever.

[02:11:25] So they built faked, hyper detailed, forced perspective, miniature towns. A pretend town named the Boeing Wonderland. Atop the roof of this plant so that anyone flying overhead would think it was just another suburban neighborhood. And it was basically a thing that only worked from the vantage point of someone in a plane from a reasonable distance that far above. And he was like, this is such an interesting thing. I can't believe this is real.

[02:11:52] People don't know about it because it was like kept top secret at the time and like wrote it in as a whole plot thread and was like, we had this scene where they're like touring the town. And then we decided like it was just one thing too many in the movie. And I'm like, that sounds more interesting than 90% of the shit that ended up in the movie. This is the whole thing. It's just like, maybe that should just be a movie. Like rather than whatever this is before 30 years later, we get welcome to Marwin a better movie.

[02:12:21] Is Welcome to Marwin better than 1941? Yes or no? This is really difficult. Have you guys been welcomed to Marwin? Yeah. Can you weigh in on this? I mean, Nick lives in Marwin Call, to be clear. He's one of the action figures. This is true. I think I'd rather, I think I'd rather rewatch 1941 than Marwin. That's fair. I like 1941. That's my big, uh, my. How much do you like it, Mitch?

[02:12:50] Like as we're winding down here. I think it's a C. Right. So you're saying kind of like, it's, it's over the border of enjoyable for you. You give it the lowest passing grade. It's not like a great, great movie, but you don't mind. I want to watch the extended cut because, because the, by the way, what happens to Hollywood? Holly, uh, what's his name? Uh, Slim Pickens. He's just kind of dropped from the movie. I mean, that's the other interesting thing he said is that Spielberg wanted Slim Pickens in the film as a reference to Doctor Strange. Of course. Explicitly. Right.

[02:13:19] Originally, he was going to be in one shot non-speaking, which is like very hubristic in the same way we're talking about him, like referencing his own movies and pointing at the best example of what he's trying to do through a visual reference to one of the actors. And Gale and Zemeckis very smartly were like, hey, Slim Pickens is one of the best character actors alive. Right. You might as well use him. You might as well use him. This entire plot line didn't exist. Uh-huh. So that's why it's kind of separate from the movie.

[02:13:46] Elias suggested they were like, we should come up with something for Slim Pickens to do. Yeah. And they were like, what if there's a who's on first situation? This guy's. Oh, this one. Right. You can do this whole thing. And it's like, this is the strongest comedic idea in the entire movie. It is the thing they came up with last. He's funny. Basically reverse engineered from having the actor, but it's also the only comedic setup in the movie where I'm like, the game is really clear to me. The stakes are really clear. The interplay is clear. The sort of like culture clash between the two of them.

[02:14:15] He plays it so well of like being terrified, but also feeling like, what is the patriotic thing to do to how to stay in my ground? And then like interrogating him with prune juice because he's swung up the evidence. Pouring prune juice down his throat is pretty funny. It's just funny. Prune juice is pretty funny. It's like funny. And it's like, they landed on it by mistake at the last. How do they not have him come in at the end? Yeah. It's like an extended sketch. That's just like a, like a self-contained and abandoned. It doesn't even actually impact the plot because it's like the compass. They don't get it out of him.

[02:14:44] So they, they figure out to use, they're like tracking the radio to figure out where Hollywood is. Right. They should have had him at the end. Like, yeah, yeah. They should have, they should have, from a toilet perspective, you should have seen the compass coming out of his asshole. I think. That would have been good. You mentioned, I think that's a great solve. I think we should have seen. Nickel boys, but from a toilet. A POV shot from a toilet. Of a compass falling out of a man's asshole. Nickel boys. What if you do an upside down nickel boys and you shoot an entire movie from the perspective of a butthole?

[02:15:11] And Spielberg's like, it has to be in the movie. They're like, the film is unreleasable. Yeah. You have a naked asshole shitting on the camera. It's now like an X rated film. I don't care. If you got a, if you got a brown compass falling on the camera at the end, I think that that's pretty good. Yeah. No, I'm just like, you could build the entire movie out of this. Like there is something better about like, you know, just like a small town guy gets

[02:15:38] like abducted by like confused Japanese soldiers and they have this weird standoff within a submarine. That's the thing though. There's half a dozen plot lines in here that probably would make a funny 90 minute, you know, not as big budget movie. And maybe you can like put two or three of them together and weave it into like a silly farce. And this is just too much. I've never seen you this with like you're like a. You're just like, we just need, it sounds like you want to end this movie itself and

[02:16:07] end this episode is just too silly for you. Really? You've never seen him like it? I did. Every time we've done the podcast. Oh yeah. I'm having my daily existence. I must end this episode, but no, no. But I kind of, that's how I felt about the movie though. The whole time I was just like, and it's a real boss though guys, let's wrap it up. But I also just feel like I don't usually like these kinds of movies. They're not usually good. No. Anytime anyone's like, oh, I want to do like my take on it's a mad, mad, mad. I'm like, have you watched it's a mad, mad, mad? It sucks. Yeah. Also not very good. Like is, is there one of those. It has some funny stuff.

[02:16:37] Like, you know, as all these things do, rat race has some funny stuff. Rat race is pretty good. Rat race directed by Jerry Zucker. Yeah. Rat race. It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world gets a lot of juice just out of being the first time someone tried that. And you can even feel it now, like living in the present and having watched all the things that have attempted to do it, it has a certain energy from like the novelty and the ambition of what they're pulling off. Yeah. And it also just like it, it cast a wide net. They correctly got all the funny people.

[02:17:07] They let all of them do their funny things. But it is like an incredibly long misshapen movie. It's like three hours long. Yes. You're just like, all right, enough already. I think it's also trying to be funny in a different way. Like this is confused about what funny it's supposed to be in mad, mad, mad, mad world. It doesn't, it isn't like the thing that's going to make you like fall over laughing, but it is like, it knows the type of humor it is, I guess. And this one, it just feels confused. You also know what you're watching. It's like, oh, they're all trying to get the money.

[02:17:37] Like, it's like, okay, I get there. There's a big W with money underneath it. They're all trying to get there. The setup is incredibly simple. And it's just like, now we'll just have sketches essentially. And they're all on the road, which means they can run into other funny people. But you have the main five threads and you understand them in relation to each other because they're all working towards the same end goal. Weirdest thing about that movie is it sort of like Spielberg following up Close Encounters, even more seriously, it is Stanley Kramer's follow-up to Judgment at Nuremberg. Yes. Like that he was like, I'll do something silly after this. Right. Starring Spencer Tracy.

[02:18:07] Which this, you know, should be. And instead it feels like whatever. Like it feels like an epic in search of, you know, more jokes or a plot or a point. I don't like it. I don't either. But I don't hate it. No, I don't hate it. It is just like, it is a confounding object. But I found it like a chore to watch. I did as well. You know, like kind of like, okay. Not helped by the extra 30 minutes I committed to. Yeah. I want to watch that now. I want to watch the extended version. Is that, is it not? Maybe you're going to give it a B minus.

[02:18:37] Maybe you're going to like that even more. Sims, which one did you watch? I watched the regular version. Mitch, I also feel like you, especially your sort of take on a lot of modern cinema is kind of like, I'm crying out for a Spielberg here. Like as much as, you know, 1941 is flawed. You're just recognizing like there's craft. Yeah. Yeah. And like, that's something that's just missing unless, you know, it's Red One, obviously, which is the best crafted movie. No, I still haven't seen Red One. I'm going to watch it. This is reductive.

[02:19:05] But movies are things that you look at and listen to. And at the end of the day, this is directed by Steven Spielberg. The DP whose name I forget, but like it shot a ton of like, you know, great movies. And let me double check. William Fraker. Yeah. Great. Legendary DP. And, you know, it's got a John Williams score. I mean, there's at least has that going for it. Which is good. Yeah. The John Williams score is genuinely good. Is genuinely good. It's got like a lot of Aaron Copeland in it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

[02:19:34] It's kind of, I feel like it's on the right side of making fun of itself. It's got a really strong, hummable theme. Like the, the, the score is more in tune with the humor this movie is attempting than the movie itself. The theory of this film's humor. Yeah. But it's, I mean, it's like, it is fascinating as a sort of like, um, we'll talk about sometimes like, uh, uh, people like, uh, who seemingly walk straight into a cultural cancellation where

[02:20:01] it's like, oh, there's some part of them that wants to be caught. Spurlock? All right. Well, that's, that's the most extreme version of it, right? All right. Hey, we, we know, we know, we know, we know, we know. You know, but there's also like the version of people who will sort of like self-sabotage a career because they can't handle the pressure. Who is there someone in particular you're thinking of? Well, you know what? This is the first credited screen appearance. He only appears at the very end is the only moment I clocked him of Mickey Rourke. Yeah.

[02:20:30] And he is someone who talks that way about his nineties. Right. I basically behaved in a way of like, get me out of famous. But even just what he picked, like the projects he took on and how he behaved on set was partially that like, he could not handle the pressure of everyone being like, you're the new De Niro. What's next? Yeah. You have it. Yeah. Right? Like we're all looking at you. Yeah. Um, and I think it's not quite the same thing, but like kinds of kindness. I remember when you walked out, you were like, this is Yorgos being like, I need to

[02:20:57] fight back against the idea that I'm like automatic prestige guy. Yorgos being like, I am not the next Tim Burton. Fuck you. Jesus Christ. Right. I want to make people angry at me again so I can like reset the table and still feel transgressive. Yeah. I do think the way Spielberg talks about the making of this movie and the decision making process and being like, I just like want to not hold myself to any standard is like almost consciously him trying to get his biggest flop out of the way so he can move on from it. I like that. Yeah. Maybe there's something to that.

[02:21:26] And again, he follows it up with his, you know, kind of his two biggest hits. Right. Apart from Joe. I mean, I don't know. And like Raiders is arguably his tightest movie. It is. It's his tightest movie in every way. And it's storyboarded to hell. And it came in under budget and on time and all that. And it's him being like, I learned my lesson. I'm a good little boy. Right. Before we play the box office game, is there anything else you guys noted in this bloated ass movie that we have not touched on? Sims, I want to say this, that as much as I say I do like it and I appreciate it, I did

[02:21:55] pause the movie and read the entire Wikipedia for Dumbo during the movie. Hell yeah. Much better movie. And then read the entire Wikipedia for Trumbo because it just reminded me of Trumbo. Yeah, sure. So I was very distracted and took like an hour break. I thought the second half of the movie, I thought once it gets to the zoot suit riot is basically when I was like, that was more when I was on board. And all the big spectacle and the house sliding off the Goonies.

[02:22:24] Is it the Goonies cliff? It's cool. I know David is always very skeptical about the notion of fan edits and the fan edit community. I am. Yes. One of our listeners recently emailed us and I scanned through it. I haven't sat down and watched it, but we have our infamous, infamous battle about which half of the holiday is good and which half is bad. Yes. And a listener emailed him was like, I agree with your take. So here is my cut of the holiday that is just the Kate Winslet half of the movie where

[02:22:52] Jude Law and Cameron Diaz never appear on screen. That cut itself is an hour and 10 minutes, which speaks to how it's a long ass movie. Yes. But even at the end where the two like crossover, he cut around any time. Oh, so you don't even see them. You never see them. Okay. But this sent me down a rabbit hole of similar fan edits. And there's one guy I found on Reddit. I've been meaning to pass this along to you, Mitch, who is advertising that he did a cut of Romulus where he took out all the dumb fan service callback shit. Wow.

[02:23:22] That's interesting. Took out that, took out all the lines and people were like, this is a lot better. I would watch that just because. But then I messaged this guy to get a link to it. And he was like, I have a couple other edits you might be interested in. And one was a similar cut of Solo where he did a similar like take out the dumb fan edit shit. Wow. Or the dumb fan service shit. Right. And like streamline the story. Which, right, there's not too much of. Right. And he did a cut of Miami Vice that he called Miami Nice. Okay.

[02:23:47] Where he was like, can you combine the superior aspects of the directors and theatrical? Right. And I'm like, this guy seems really interesting. I like all of his thought experiments. What I want someone, maybe this guy to do next is do a cut of 1941 where you just put in the entirety of Dumbo. It's a clean. It's a pretty light lift. Yeah. I'm just watching like the elephant, the mom elephant caress Dumbo while she sings Baby Mine. And I'm just like, animation is so beautiful.

[02:24:17] And then I'm thinking about like in 1941, this must have felt like really revolutionary to watch something like this. Yeah. And then we're not watching Dumbo anymore. And I'm like, boring. Like back to this shitty movie. So you can obviously go, you can certainly go full frame with some of the Dumbo. You've got some wides of the screen with the theater watching it. You've also got some reaction shots of Robert Stack. I wonder if we have enough to sustain the full movie just between like kind of, you know, cutting through existing. I think he probably could.

[02:24:46] Just occasionally cut back to Robert Stack like 80 times. Still good. Yeah. I was reminded, my thing is I was reminded of how good Robert Stack is in Beavis and Butthead do America. He rolls. So funny. He's good in the movie too. He's good in this. He's like the funniest part. He's so funny in Airplane. Immediately after this, figure out how to use him in comedies properly. He's pretty good in this. He's good in this, but he actually just sort of seems like a serious person who's trying to clean up the mess. And you're like, I support you, Robert Stack. But right.

[02:25:15] Airplane gets the straight arrow joke with him much better. I want to call out the fan edit Redditor's username straight cuts, no chaser. And if they tell me that they don't want me saying their username on Mike, then I will have this cut out. I'm sure they would be happy. I have one. I just have. I have one last. Just two last thoughts. Basically one, I was like, I liked that it was, I liked that it was lighthearted because there's like sirens going off and it's about the destruction of Hollywood, which is like

[02:25:42] if it was a dramatic movie watching that this week, it probably would feel like too hot. Yeah. The timing is good. The other Spielberg movie we watched this week is Always, which is entirely about like forest fires. Oh, cheer lord. Guys trying to like, uh, uh, you know, airplay. Extinguish, uh, in planes, uh, flaming trees. It's just a weird two Spielberg to watch in a very tragic week for the Los Angeles era. So I was happy that it was lighthearted. I, I, uh, the end there, I want to ask you guys this.

[02:26:12] He's like 42 is going to be an even bigger year. Were they angling first? Was that a sequel angle? Feels like it. It feels like it. That would be, and they, they could watch Bambi. They call it that spot. That was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's just the, the movie is just like the guys who didn't go overseas are just like, should we watch a movie? And they go watch Bambi. What an amazing franchise setup to just be like, yeah, we can make one for every year. Yeah. Jesus. We got these years on lock. Yeah. Um, I have, I have 38 years ahead right now. Go ahead. I have two more quick things.

[02:26:42] Uh, one is, and, and you get, y'all, y'all may have, you have the, uh, the factual answer there, but like, so in this one is fictionalized where the land of Hollywood land is busted off by John Belushi's plane. Right. Right. Um, the famous Hollywood side used to say Hollywood land. Well, my understanding is cause I always, what I learned is that, that the land was destroyed by the rocketeer. Oh. So do you know which is true? Yeah. Oh boy. That rocketeer. You're a rocketeerist. I'm a rocketeerist. Yeah. Right.

[02:27:11] Yeah. No, it was definitely a bill. Billy Campbell. Is that the rocketeer? Yeah. Okay. I feel like in the, the movie Hollywood land. The, the Ben Affleck movie. Adrian Brody. And Adrian Brody. Right. Yeah. Where they use the, like the, the crumbling of the land as like a metaphor. Darkness. Right. The darkness is so great. This place isn't even a land anymore. It's just an idea. But I feel like they explain in that what actually happened to the letters. What did happen?

[02:27:38] I think, uh, Adrian Brody, Adrian Brody in that movie, uh, as Laszlo Toth, uh, takes it down as an architectural, uh, experiment. He does. He pours water on it. Yeah. Right. He runs his hang along. There's a Brody verse that, uh, that is slowly building up where his village character, unfortunately, is, is going to pop into the, only one man who can stop it. I have a, I have a buddy who. Private Royce from Predators? Sure. Or what about the mean record executive from Cadillac Records? I'm just trying to go like. Arthur Chess? Yeah, exactly. I think it's Arthur.

[02:28:08] It's definitely Chess. It's Chess. Chess Records. I have a buddy who confronted the Rocketeer outside of a hotel. Yeah. And he said that he didn't believe that he was the reason that the land went down and he, and he punched him. Oh, he punched him. The Rocketeer punched him. That's crazy. Yeah. I'm kind of with the Rocketeer there, honestly. Like. Yeah. I mean, like, even if it was a thing that he, like, was made up, like, still. Don't confront. Leave the man alone. He's an old man. Yeah. You know. Did you read that op-ed where the Rocketeer said he was voting for Trump? Yeah. Yeah. Really disappointing. Yeah.

[02:28:34] I mean, I guess I should have seen it coming from, like, an Art Deco 30s, like, hero. Yeah. Who's, like, kind of Ayn Rand coded. Yeah. And it's also just, like, I don't know. He's an old man. And, like, what's he done recently outside of Dancing with the Stars? You know? Yeah. And punching the guy. I have one more. I have one more. I heard that he almost did a movie a few years ago that he was going to do Red Rocket was actually going to be Red Rocketeer. Oh, yeah. I did read that. He just didn't want to show dick on CD. Sean Baker insisted. Wait.

[02:29:04] What was your other thought? Yeah. What's your other thought? My other thing, going back to Trumbo, fun fact, the Wikipedia. Of course. Let's please go back to Trumbo. Gotta go back to Trumbo. The Wikipedia entry for Trumbo was written in a bathtub. All right. Yeah. Of course. There you go. Yeah. Oh, wait. The page itself is wet. Yeah. By the way, Los Angeles has an idea to help battle the fires in the future. Uh-huh. They're going to build a bunch of Sparrows. Jesus Christ. That's good.

[02:29:33] You know, I actually heard, I heard, I went to Sparrow last week because I was just like, we're dealing with fires out here. And it's like, you're kind of like, I just want some trashy food to kind of comfort me. And it's great. All these fast food workers are still on the job. God bless them. Yeah. Yeah. So I went to, I went to the Sparrow at the, um, Fox Hills mall to get myself some comfort food. Yeah. Yeah. And they're boiling the marinara back there. In the marinara is Trumbo with a typewriter in the screenplay.

[02:30:03] But he's got a mustache and a chef's hat on. He's like, hey, I'm writing my screenplay. I'm Italian Trumbo over here. Also, I know we finished. We moved on from our Adrian Brody little sidebar. I don't want to offer spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen The Brutalist yet. You know what my favorite scene was in that movie? What? When they go to Italy and the old guy pours the marinara on the marble. That is really beautiful. That was very touching and very sensitive culturally, I found. From Sbarro's. Of course, you see them go to Sbarro's, ask for a cup of marinara.

[02:30:32] I went to one of those hydrants that wasn't working. And I followed it back. I guess where it ended up. Is it Sbarro? Oh, boy. That's an issue. That was part of the issue. I'm really glad you gave us the time to answer this. Rather than just telling us. My only last thought is that, and this sums up this movie to me. Yeah. Please. This sums up this movie to me is that when they do the credits. I mean, I know we've talked about the credits a lot. Yeah.

[02:31:01] But when they do the credits, and maybe we've said this already, the explosions we mentioned. Before the explosions, yeah. Every character they show is just like, ah! They're all screaming. Just fucking screaming. It's like Dan Aykroyd makes these clips of everyone. It's because there's no clip of anyone being quiet in this movie that you can find. And can I actually just say one more thing before we play the box office game? Yeah, I think you need to. I forgot to bring this up earlier. But Weiger, when you were saying that this movie has the manic energy of the Waterworld stunt show. Yeah.

[02:31:28] Which can sustain for 20 minutes, but not like a full two hours. Did you hear the rumor that Universal is going to replace that with a Sbarrow World stunt show? Again, for any listener who doesn't know what's going on, please listen to Doughboys every week. A wonderful podcast, but especially Griffin Sparrow's episode. The Super Nintendo adaptation of Sbarrow World actually has an amazing soundtrack. It's a weird thing. Yeah, it does. I heard that. It does. Yeah.

[02:31:57] So this film came out. This actually is weird. This film came out at Christmas time. I don't think this is a particularly good Christmas movie. No, but as I said, that teaser trailer is Belushi going. No, they're going for. Yeah. I'm sure this Christmas telling you. Baby is nailing the wreath at the end when he knocks his house into the... There's something. Yeah, it's kind of like a very light Christmas movie. I also think that before Spielberg basically created the modern blockbuster with Jaws in a summer release,

[02:32:24] Christmas was the number one most desirable release. Christmas is much more wide open. You're right. It was the best launch. All of these movies are big. Yeah. So it's opening number three. Okay. Which is pretty decent. But it wasn't the success they hoped for. Mm-hmm. And number one of the box offices is kind of the biggest play of the year. Hmm. Sort of. It's a big sci-fi movie. It's a big sci-fi movie. We've covered it on our Patreon. In 1979. We've covered it on our Patreon. Is it 2010?

[02:32:55] No. The year we make contact? No. Is it Star Trek The Motion Picture? That's what it is. Okay. There we go. Star Trek The Motion Picture, which of course was a television show. They were going to make Star Trek Phase 2. Yeah. And then Star Wars came out and they were like, fuck, this needs to just be a movie. These are movies now. Yeah. And Star Trek The Motion Picture arrived and did well, but was also disappointed.

[02:33:16] But it's also like, almost like if they announced tomorrow that they were greenlighting a $200 million NYPD Blue movie with the original cast. Literally, yes. I mean, maybe, okay. It's not, I'm trying to think of a better analog. The X-Files is kind of a good analog, I guess. But only if, that's the thing. But they've already done movies of that. It would be The X-Files if X-Files didn't have two movies and a revival. Yeah, like, or, yeah, I don't know. I mean, some kind of big cult show. Yeah.

[02:33:45] It just speaks to how massive the Star Wars Close Encounters effect was combined with, like, Trek being the original cult show that lingered. Real quick, Sims, I know you've covered it on the Patreon. People have heard your take. But Sims, as a Trekkie, what do you think of Star Trek The Motion Picture? I am a huge fan and huge defender of, as it was known at the time, Star Trek The Slow Motion Picture. I think it just rocks. Or the motionless picture. Or the motionless picture. I saw it when I was a kid, and I was just very taken with it.

[02:34:14] It is objectively boring, and it is objectively kind of, like, not very good at, like, the Star Trek stuff. Like, it doesn't really have a really good handle on Kirk and Spock and stuff. I think it's a great mood piece. But it's such a cool, weird, moody movie, and all the visual effects are so cool, and I love the story, and I always will defend it. But Khan is, you know, Star Trek II, Wrath of Khan, is them figuring everything out. Like, the formula for these movies, Kirk and Spock's dynamic, everything. I mean, I love that movie.

[02:34:44] I want to shout out real quick, while we're talking Star Trek, Nicholas Meyer, who is the director of Star Trek VI, The Undiscovered Country. End of Wrath of Khan. End of Wrath of Khan, yeah. But Nicholas Meyer, when I was on the, during the WGA strikes, he was out on the picket lines, like, every day. I'd see that guy all the time. And he's, like, you know, he's a, I believe he was born in the 40s. So, like, you know, he's still out there. Yeah, he's, like, in his late 70s. He rocks. I mean, I love him. He rocks me, kind of.

[02:35:14] David, do you have the Star Trek, the motion picture soundtrack on vinyl? No, I have Wrath of Khan on vinyl. Okay, I bought it, and then a better version came out. I'll give you the old version, the less good version. Fair enough. Second thing, this episode's coming out on February 2nd. Okay. Yesterday, February 1st, on our Patreon, we finished the Jelly Trilogy content. Uh-huh, and we're about to start the next generation. We're about to start doing all the Picard movies. Wow. Very excited for that. Great layup. All four of them. There's only four. Sure.

[02:35:44] But then we have a little treat for number, for movie five. We can say it. Yeah, Galaxy Quest. We're tackling Galaxy Quest on. Why not? Why not? Why not? Now, but listen to this. Box Office game, guys. Okay. 1941 is opening number three. One of the best comedies of the 70s. Wow. And like a shot out of a cannon, holy shit, like movie star moment. Is it The Jerk? It's Steve Martin in The Jerk. Oh, wow. Yeah, that is devastating.

[02:36:14] So like, that movie is, what, 85 minutes long or whatever? You know what I mean? And like so fucking funny. A guy who had never been in movies before probably cost, what, $5 million? Yeah, exactly. Cost no money. Yeah. And just like, it cost $4 million and made $100. Right. And it's just like two generations of comedic geniuses, Carl Reiner and like Steve Martin just building a perfect comedy out of nothing. Right. So like, that's tough for 1941. I can just go see The Jerk. Like, that's much better. Yeah. Number four, The Box Office. And The Jerk handily outgrossed it.

[02:36:43] Yeah. By far. Yeah. Number four is also a kind of 1941-esque movie, but it's a very serious war masterpiece. Hmm. But it's also an out of control. Is it Apocalypse Now? Apocalypse Now. Wow. So you can also just go see the real thing. Oh my God. You know what I mean? That's insane. Yeah. Just fucking go see Apocalypse Now if you want to see a bloated, amazing war epic. Yeah. Can I, can I? Number five. Can I quickly interject here?

[02:37:10] Isn't it weird that Billy Corgan doesn't sing about 1941 and 1979? That's a great. Like the movie? It is weird. He should be like. Great note, Mitch. Cool. Well, cause- Hot take. That movie is good. Something like that. I give it a C. Corgan's hard to do. Ah. That's a little Corgan, right? Ah. 19-7. Just keep doing that, right? Weiger and I will do it occasionally. That's good, Mitch. Yeah, that was good. That was a good Corgan. Corg's.

[02:37:40] But he should have sang about 1941. It's his favorite year, but he should have sang about another year. Yeah. Let's go see 1941. Like that should have been in the song. Yeah, it should have been. Let's go see 1941. It sounded like Cartman. Get some cheesy poofs. Yeah, you know what? He should have sang it like Cartman, too, honestly. He should. Why didn't he sing it like Cartman? Can I throw out a big take? Like, what if Rick Rubin started doing that when he's like brought in as like, you know, a big budget producer for a new record? He's like, you should sing it like Cartman. Yeah.

[02:38:10] That's my one note. More butters, less timid. I feel like South Park has strayed away from its real core, which is cheesy poofs. I feel like they barely mention cheesy poofs anymore. I've not seen South Park in like 15 years. I'll tell you what you haven't missed. Cheesy poofs content. Oh, shit. Number five. I just want to. So, you know, we've got Star Trek, The Jerk, 1941, Apocalypse Now. Number five is a hit movie. Okay. Um, but it's also a number movie. Huh. Much like now.

[02:38:40] So, 1941's even getting outboxed in the number title realm. Is it a year as well? No. It's just a number. It's just a number. Is it 10? Blake Edwards 10? Blake Edwards is 10 with Dudley Moore and Bo Derrick. Another, dare I say it, and I know this term has been retired, but I think it applies too directly for this film. Big, big fat. It is a big tittied hit. Big tittied hit. 10 is a big tittied hit. And there's another low blow to open against two comedies that are really sticking with the culture. I've never seen 10. I haven't either.

[02:39:10] I just know it's got big boobs. You guys seen 10? I saw it many years ago. I remember it being like kind of like. Mitch is like, now wait a second. It's one and then it's zero. That's what I put into Google? Mitch has turned into Zemeckis here. You've seen it. I saw it many years ago. I remember. I think I remember just like, because I knew I liked Dudley Moore. Yeah, it was. I think it might have been, I might have been too young for like the comedy, but like the right age for the raunch, if memory serves. Right.

[02:39:40] Right. Of course. It was the right age for the raunch. It's funny that the setup for that movie is Dudley Moore, who is two foot negative six inches, is married to Julie Andrews. A statuesque woman. They go on vacation and he sees a younger woman who is so fucking hot that the movie is basically like, cheat on your wife. Right. And Blake Edwards was married to Julie Andrews.

[02:40:07] Also at the box office, we've got And Justice for All, the Pacino movie. Oh, sure. You're out of order. Which is silly. Yeah. But, you know, not bad. No. But silly. You've got the film Starting Over, which is the Burt Reynolds sort of romantic dramedy with Jill Klayberg. That's a good movie. A pretty good movie. Yeah. Kind of one of his more serious, like, actually pretty good movies. You've got The Rose with Bette Midler, which was her kind of breakout Mark Rydell film. Playing not Janis Joplin. You're playing a Janis Joplin-esque diva.

[02:40:37] You've got The Black Stallion with Mickey Rooney that got him the late in life Oscar nom. Never seen. Me neither, actually. Yeah. I saw the... Carol Ballard did the remake, right? It's Carol Ballard. Yeah. I saw that one. No, that's this one. That's this one. Oh, wait. Then who did the... I don't fucking know. There's the 90s Black Stallion. Yes, there is. Yes. Carol Ballard did the original. Is it just about a horse? Like, what does it do? Can I...

[02:41:05] Look, I know I flopped with my R1 movies cursed earlier. Like, I know that didn't take... How about this? Are horse movies cursed? Interesting. What's the best horse? You mean, like, it has to be, like... Because there's lots of movies with horses in there. Yeah, no, but like a movie centered on a horse. Spirit, Starris. Horse in the title. Spirit, Stallion of the Simmeroon. We don't like War Horse. You and I both put that pretty low on our spirit. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of War Horse. What's the best movie with the horse in the title? Dreamer.

[02:41:35] Never saw Dreamer. But that's my favorite line in the movie Hamlet 2. Oh, sure. When he's introducing Kim... What's her name? What's her fucking name? Oh. Elizabeth Shue. Yes. And he's, like, trying to get the kids excited about Elizabeth Shue and they're, like, they don't know who she is. And he's like, Dreamer with the fucking horse! It always makes me laugh. Spirit... I haven't seen Spirit running free or whatever the recent one was called. The original Spirit is very well animated and a bit of a snooze. I've been thinking about showing Spirit to my daughter because it seems kind of chill. I was gonna say. Yeah.

[02:42:05] It's a perfect, like, that age movie. But no, I think... Weiger, you might have redeemed yourself with this tape. Hidalgo? Do we like Hidalgo? No one likes Hidalgo. I said Seabiscuit right off the bat. You didn't respond to a Seabiscuit. Oh, Seabiscuit. Interesting. Seabiscuit's, like, as good as you can get. That's, like, the ceiling for a horse movie. And that movie's mostly not about the horse. Yeah, but does anyone give a shit about a... What was the other fucking... The Malkovich one called?

[02:42:33] They made a Secretariat movie. Secretariat! Oh, yeah, that one's even worse. Seabiscuit's not bad. Seabiscuit's all right. Seabiscuit's pretty good. Number 10 at the box office is... That's a pretty good take, Wags. It looks like it's a re-release of a George P. Cosmatos movie called Sin or Restless starring Raquel Welsh. This is not important. Weird. Anyway, that's the box office game for 1941. I just think it illustrates how badly its lunch is getting eaten by better movies. And, like, next week, Kramer vs. Kramer comes out. Wow. Which is, like, one of the biggest movies of that year. Isn't it number one?

[02:43:03] It certainly is up there, and it wins the Oscar and all that. So it's sort of like... I've never seen Kramer vs. Kramer. I think it's coming to the Vista. Never seen it. I know. Blind spot. It's good. It's dated, but it's, like, a very watchable movie. I think the sequel's better. Go ahead. Kramer vs. Kramer vs. Kramer vs. Matlock vs. Infant. What the fuck is that? Someone's behind on Doe Boys. Oh, am I? I am because I got addicted to Bandsplain. I transmuted the joke a bit. You've been addicted to Bandsplain. I am listening to her Britpop series.

[02:43:33] I turned it to Versus, of course, in Mitch's original joke. The purity of it is that they meet. They don't fight. They meet. I appreciate you, Griff, even making a joke off of that joke, which I think no one liked when I said. It's a good joke. It's a good joke. I like it the more it has to be explained. How about Kramer vs. Kramer vs. Kramer? And then a Seinfeld movie underneath it. How's that? That's fine. Right. I think we just all agree that's fine. Yeah, I like it. Yeah.

[02:44:01] You could do Kramer vs. Kramer vs. Kramer vs. The Laugh Factory audience. So what are Hoffman and Streep doing in that movie? They're there. They're like on the stand. Okay. Right? And she's like crying about the wall with the clouds in the boys' bedroom. Right. And then we just cut to Richards. No, they're on stage. All of them are on stage at The Laugh Factory. Uh-huh. But she's like on the witness stand. And then Michael Richards.

[02:44:30] So it's just like the movie is just happening. He's saying slurs. Right. And Dustin Hoffman's like, aren't you supposed to be defending me? You know what's still crazy? What? Michael Richards doing that shit. Can I say? It's so crazy. I, at least once a year, watch the Seinfeld on Letterman. Oh, we were talking about it. He's a good guy. It's a surreal bit of TV. Stop laughing. It's not fun. We were just talking about this the other day. Probably with the similar people you were talking to about it, I'm sure. Yeah. Probably. I watch it so much.

[02:45:00] It's so fascinating because it is like the last moment culturally where the news travels slowly enough that the studio audience hasn't heard it. Right. They haven't actually heard it. They might have heard about it. Right. No. No. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's the thing. They start laughing because they think it's a comedic setup. Right. Yeah. And you're like, today if that happened, it would hit the internet so fast. Yeah. Yeah. The night before anyone going in to see Letterman would have heard this already.

[02:45:28] And this like taping happening 12 hours after the event was a little too fast for people to have contacts. I was saying it's the last new laughs at Kramer. Kramer never gets up more. New fresh laughs never happen with Kramer ever again after that moment. Wow. I think that's right. It's the truth. All right. It's the truth. No, I think it's right. It was worth it. We are done. We're done? We're done with 1941. Guys, thank you so much. You guys did a great job. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us.

[02:45:58] Of course. I'm so glad you're doing the first half of Spielberg's filmography. And yeah, it's really always, again, always such a treat to come on the podcast. I think we'll do it. We'll do an in-person episode this year. I think so too. If you guys are in New York at some point this year, it'd be great to finally cut it up IRF. It almost happens. It's going to happen. It almost happens. It's going to happen. So hopefully. You guys got some live shows scheduled in the area and we have our designs on it.

[02:46:26] And hopefully by the time, yeah, we know far enough out on the schedule what we can do. It'll be in-person to commemorate you guys joining the Five Timers Club. Oh, that's fun. Do we get jackets? Is it like SNL? Do we get jackets or anything or no? Fuck yeah. I guess we'll get some jackets. Fuck yeah. I can't get that thick jacket. We're going to do a pizza tour in Connecticut. We're very excited. Also, we have a big text, the blank dough, where we get to get your movie takes.

[02:46:54] We bother you and ask you for your movie takes every day on the daily. Well, and vice versa. And especially the takes we don't want to say on Mike. I will say I did a show with Tammy Sager. Frequent guest on our show. Great person. Upcoming guest on our show if everything works out. But I did a show with her and she came up to me backstage and said, what are the three most recent texts in blank dough? Wow. That was the first thing she said. I want to see what the last three texts were. And was it you guys explaining the end of the brutalist to me?

[02:47:24] Because it was pretty helpful. Honestly, it made me like the ending. That was peak performance from the blank dough thread when we're all talking about the brutalist. That was pretty raw thread in there. Yeah, absolutely. It was us at his peak. Yeah. Can I shout out? Someday we'll create the mutual million dollar Patreon tier where you get to read that text. Yeah. We will only ever make it public if it's one million dollars per person. You get to join the thread. You can't participate. Right. It's read only. Yeah, exactly.

[02:47:53] Can I shout out Griffin real quick? Griffin, I don't know if you have a Steelbook related nickname yet. I don't. I would pitch the Man of Steel. But, you know, you could also be a Green Book riff for the Steelbook. I don't know. I'll just do whatever you want to run with there. I like Man of Steel books. Yeah. The Man of Steel books. Do you like that over the Steelbook? The Steelbook, unclear what it's referencing and what it's referencing as a bad movie.

[02:48:21] The Man of Steel book connected me with like the site you sent me to did not feel like an actual retailer. But the Ninja Scroll Blu-ray, which the Steelbook, which was in very limited release. And my preorder got canceled. I was like, Griffin, yeah, I'm in a jam here. You got to help me out here. Right. You had preorder from Crunchyroll. Yeah. And then they ran out. And I went to my Blu-ray message boards and was like, this seems to be a recurring problem. Right. I'm going to dig into who people say. Because at this point, everyone else had sold out of it.

[02:48:51] And the URL you sent me was like. And I think I sent you to Bull Moose? Yeah. Whatever it was, it was like one of those weird like Estonian sites that like illegally streams NBA games, you know, that you find. That's just like, it was such a weird website that actually delivered and actually had, you know, I ended up getting my Steelbook. So I really appreciate it. You got your Steelbook? I did. Yeah. Yeah. This is why. The way you told me. This is why Natalie's had a go bag long before the fire started.

[02:49:19] The way you confirmed that the Steelbook had arrived successfully and delivered was you took a picture of your hand holding it and just wrote in all caps, Griffin Newman has a 10 inch cock. And I said, that is the coolest way anyone has ever been given credit for knowing which E-tailers to get Steelbooks from. I stand by that. Exactly. A deeply dorky thing.

[02:49:47] No, but it was it was a I was I was happy to do that mitzvah and you guys are the best. It's always a treat. Griffin is hung like Seabiscuit. All right. Jesus. Let's start there. Seabiscuit had a famously small penis for a horse. God damn it. He could run real fast. I called him Seabiscuit in the locker room. Anything you guys want to plug outside of Doughboys at large? 1941. You should check it out. Check out 1941.

[02:50:18] Yeah. Doughboys podcast about chain restaurants. Me and Mike Mitchell, Sims and Griffin have both been on. If you haven't listened, good jumping on points available in recent memory. Yeah. And people should watch Mitch's show on Peacock. Twisted Metal. Mitch plays Stu in Twisted Metal. Twisted Metal is really funny and it's got a lot of good action. You know what? It succeeds in an action as an action comedy in a way that 1941 doesn't. So. I would strongly agree with that. And season two is coming out sometime this year?

[02:50:47] Season two is coming out sometime this year. Yes, for sure. Yeah. It needed more candy. Also. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. No, no. What were you going to say? We talked about this a little bit. 1941 needed more candy. I needed more candy. I needed more candy. Need more candy. No, I was just going to say not to force your guy's hand. And you were calling out that you've had Sims and I on the show a couple times. The person you got to get on Doughboys is Mr. Ben Hosley. Wow. That is true. Wow.

[02:51:16] I think there is a real like kind of heater of an episode untapped. I mean, it would be a huge. The next time Ben's in Los Angeles. It would be a huge honor. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Let's make it happen. He's got opinions. Ben, you were great on. I loved your PTR episode. So yeah, definitely next time you're in LA, we'll figure it out. Yeah. Well, yeah. Come on. All right. I mean, it's not going to be fun for you, Ben, but come on. Come do it. All right. I get some for three. Thank you guys for doing this.

[02:51:45] Thank you all for listening. Tune in next week for Let Me See, another stinker from Steven Spielberg, Raiders of the Lost Ark. Wow. It is just, I say at the beginning of that episode, it's one of the greatest comeback movies of all time, if not the undisputed greatest. Recorded that episode with the great. Brian Michael Bendis. Brian Michael Bendis. Yeah. Legendary comics writer. Yeah. An Indiana Jones super fan. So tune in for that. As we said, Next Generation Picard Trek movies coming up on Patreon. That's right.

[02:52:14] We'll start off with Generations. But also February 11th doing Spielberg TV movies. Yeah. Something evil. And Wicked. Yeah. Isn't that what? Savage. Savage. Not Wicked. Anyway. I had Wicked on the brain. It's kind of just a, yeah, damp ending. But yep, that's true. And as always, that ending was so damp. I briefly mistook it for a sublar. Should I put pepperoni on it?

[02:52:46] Sims, when's your out? Oh, whatever. Great question. Okay. I mean, I'd love to be done by in two hours, but we'll see. I mean, this movie is less. Casey just laughed at that. Come on. This movie is not weighty enough, you know. Right. I think there's plenty to discuss, obviously. A tremendous movie. But it's not like, well, but wait a second, wait a second, you know, like where it's like

[02:53:11] fucking Jaws and you're like, did we, you know, forget one of the ten most famous movie sequences of all time, you know, or whatever. Like it's. The Jaws episode, we forgot to talk about like half of his teeth. We only covered the top half. What's the quote? Fuck. I'm trying to find it. Oh, yes, it does. Very much so. We're going to talk about that, Emma. A subtle tip of the cap. Yeah, very subtle.

[02:53:43] More horny, though. I like that aspect. Is it a little horny? This is gold, Griffin. We're missing this great gold. Hold on. Hold on. That's true. That's true. We're recording it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.