2 Fast 2 Furious with Jon Gabrus

[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name is a show It's Blank Check Pockets ain't empty, cuz Yeah, and we ain't podcasting no more either, bruh

[00:00:28] Oh wow, wow You didn't want to use the hoasis line? I mean that's a good line. I just like I like, uh, I will say It's, it's, you're, what we just did for the listener who maybe hasn't watched the movie in a while was the, the closing exchange

[00:00:46] The final exchange, yes Yes, it's the, it's the big send-off, it might as well end on a freeze frame and then like It really feels like it's about to Entertainer planes, it does, it actually does, it actually does feel like it's about to freeze frame

[00:01:00] Disorienting that it doesn't end on a freeze frame But I feel like that's one of the, the lingering sort of like, uh, cultural imprints of this movie in particular in the franchise is how much

[00:01:12] The character Roman Pierce has played by Tyrese is defined by his, uh, endless hunger He is hungry He's hungry, he keeps saying that he's hungry Um, at the time of this episode coming out, this will be coming out just a few days before F9 is released in theaters

[00:01:30] The F9 colon, the Fast Saga Uh, I have at the time of this recording seen the film He's seen it folks, I haven't seen it Not to pull rank, friend of the podcast Richard Ehrlich invited me to a critic screening Richard Ehrlich? Jesus Christ, David Ehrlich

[00:01:51] Who's Richard Ehrlich? I don't, some combo film critic man Lawson and Ehrlich together is one David Lawson and Richard Ehrlich? Yeah, I don't know Um, Ehrlich took me to a screening, uh, very kindly I've seen the film, I'm not gonna spoil any of it on this episode

[00:02:11] But just an element that jumped out to me Uh, while watching the movie but especially while rewatching this one for today It's fast That's one thing and if I had to add a second, that's the second thing

[00:02:23] But, um, one of the beautiful things about the Fast and Furious franchise is that Anything that feels like it was abandoned can at any point in time come back and be the most important thing Right? Any character?

[00:02:36] You would not believe how much screen time is spent on Roman Pierce's hunger in F9 Something that is not really tracked for the seven movies in between Six movies in between, I know two of those he's not in Without spoiling Yes

[00:02:55] Is there much else in Two-Fourly you were just watching too fast That, that, that, you know, has any bearing on F9 This movie is pretty far away from F9 No, but this is why I'm starting the conversation this way In terms of like textual things

[00:03:12] Roman Pierce's hunger is probably the only thread in this one that really pops up in nine Sure, sure But I do think there are things this movie does That have really set the stage for what the series has become Not just obviously the interaction of characters but tone

[00:03:30] Expansion of the world, certain things that feel like I feel like this is often regarded as the worst of the franchise And I think it's reputation has grown as the franchise has evolved More to match the tone of this movie

[00:03:47] That and the fact that no longer does it seem ridiculous that there was a Fast and Furious movie starring Paul Walker and Tyrese Whereas at the time it felt like, oh well this is like a knock-off

[00:03:59] They didn't get Vin, they just got like, you know, Tyrese to kind of like try and carry his luggage I don't know, it felt chintzy then and now it doesn't Because you're like, well Roman Pierce, crucial character, when you, you know, Tej Cole

[00:04:14] You know, these are crucial characters, Tej Parker, not Tej Cole Yeah please Jesus Christ Although, although, I think we'll talk about at length These two characters bear almost zero resemblance to the characters who reintroduced themselves in five

[00:04:29] And have evolved so far past even who they were in five That at this point they could just be identical twins to those characters Right, you could just be like, oh this is my brother with a very different personality and skill set Right

[00:04:44] Yes, I think it is interesting in the context of this show that we do A podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David, I'm Griffin And David And it's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers

[00:04:59] And are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby And this is a mini-series on the films of John Singleton It's called Pods in the Cast

[00:05:13] And the thing that is, I feel like oftentimes forgotten Is that he did in fact direct the movie too fast, too furious And I bring this up because despite this one being a huge hit Big massive hit

[00:05:26] Because I think everyone was like, well Vin's gone, there's gonna be a step down It'll still be successful, there's gonna be a step down It pretty much did the same numbers as the first movie And I think even did better overseas

[00:05:37] This was the beginning of the franchise start and they're like chalk up overseas numbers It both kind of ground Singleton's career to a halt It really kind of dinged him that it was like, oh he's like some for hire guy now

[00:05:52] Who's doing like the shitty fast and furious sequel And it kind of ground the fast and furious franchise to a halt Where they were like, okay we made one without Vin It was successful, we can't get away with that again

[00:06:05] Make one for 20 million dollars with no actors carried over You know with teenagers in Tokyo Just turn this into like the sting too You know? It felt like it was kind of ending everything Introduce our guest Interesting to consider

[00:06:26] Yeah, no very interesting to consider but let's bring our guest in I think he has things to say The movie is called Too Fast Too Furious An iconic title, an iconic title Well we're gonna spend 15 minutes talking about that alone

[00:06:37] I was reluctant to introduce our guest because I'm surprised he has been able to sit patiently this entire time I was waiting for him to burst through the conversation School-aid man style at any moment You know I'm trying to change it up a little

[00:06:51] I'm trying to respect the connoisseurs of context Let you do your bullshit up top Wow Well our guest today of course is the number one fuck boy You know him from the High and Mighty podcast

[00:07:04] Where I have gone to talk about the last three, four fast and furious movies I think we did a Hobbs and Shaw and a Fast Seven and an Eight I think yeah, I think we did seven, eight Hobbs and Shaw

[00:07:17] I think we did actually I think we did Hobbs and Shaw, eight And then an episode earlier on where we just talked about family Right, right, yes We did an episode that was like for the whole franchise

[00:07:28] But it was sort of just us crying about the idea of this franchise I know John Gaber's Ladies and Gentlemen finally gets to come Return the favor and talk about Fast Furious on our show So thrilling, I didn't even know it was a Singleton series

[00:07:44] I thought it was a Fast and Furious series I thought it was like an ah, this is so exciting I'm pissed that I'm here for too fast and furious and not abduction though Really?

[00:07:54] Hey look, abduction, you would not believe the fight for people who wanted to guess on the abduction episode I'm just a Taylor Lautner head man Jacob the werewolf man, I've loved him since day one Right, an abduction was like day four But yes Right

[00:08:11] Day four also the final day for fucking Redwater Sadly the final day for Old Tay, yeah On our Patreon we're doing the Twilight movies right now as a franchise Simultaneous with doing Singleton on main feed And it's interesting that those two things coalesce with

[00:08:28] Taylor Lautner is the lynchpin At the end of the Twilight franchise, Taylor Lautner finally gets his action movie Ends up being John Singleton's last movie And then Singleton dies until her Lautner kind of disappears from the face of the earth It's weird Right? It's crazy

[00:08:45] Like you would not expect these two things to overlap And not only did they collide but they sort of like it was a fatal collision Yes, it was a fatal collision Jesus, I'm looking at the cast for abduction

[00:08:57] And I'm sorry I know we're gonna talk about that and I'll go But like Sigourney Weaver, Alfred Molina Jason Isaacs this thing is overflowing It's crazy that it's not good Like it's insane that it's not good Well, the only problem is I don't know what it's about

[00:09:12] At all At all do I Like I don't know even the barest concept for abduction I just know Taylor Lautner's in it Oh, I've seen it I think I saw it in the theater Okay, I think I know what it's about

[00:09:23] Can you tell me whether I'm right or not I'm sure Is it about that he was I'm not asking you, you haven't seen it David I'm asking Gabriel Probably you can sort of scan the Wikipedia entry Gabriel, am I correct in remembering that it is about

[00:09:40] A kid who realizes through finding like a missing child Listing that he was stolen And who he has thought where his parents' whole life are In fact the people who abducted him It's a face on the milk carton situation Right? That's what it is

[00:09:56] He sees his own childhood photo I feel like he's got like insane training Like he was like, you know, like one of those like Right Programmed at a young age Right It's like a partial Hannah kind of thing Yes, yes But then it's also a born identity

[00:10:12] Like who am I really where did I come from Let me find out my identity Yeah, it feels like born junior Yeah Like I'm a kid instead of being Like the pilot I sold to ABC like eight years ago Was fat born Like that was pretty much

[00:10:27] The premise was like what if a fat guy Ended up having crazy ass badass stuff And they were like, oh And I was like and I've got just the fat guy And they were like, you know Nick Frost? No

[00:10:39] Oh, you know, okay, so you don't even see me yet Okay, see you later I gotta say Abduction sounds good So I'm excited I kind of like that premise That's fine Yeah, it's kind of a fun premise That's one of those movies that you watch

[00:10:56] And then eight years later find out John Singleton directed You know what I mean? Where you're like, I saw that dumb shit It's like, oh did you That always happens with like some of your favorite directors You're like, they have this one kind of movie

[00:11:09] That you saw was shitty Didn't realize it was a DiPoma movie And now you're like And now you retroactively like Wait, one of my favorite directors Made this shit movie Well we've been talking about this I mean leading up to this point

[00:11:20] In all of our episodes so far But I feel like Every movie up until this point In Singleton's career was at least Like half sold on It's a John Singleton movie Like his name was as big As whoever the star of the film was

[00:11:39] Very often he was trying to mint a new star And even like Boys in the Hood Is a debut, none of those actors are really known It's as much the narrative of like this kid He's like 22, can you believe it? And this felt like the first time

[00:11:51] Where Singleton was just kind of Hired to make a movie Yeah, and that's true for the rest of them And this is his second franchise He's taken on Shaft But that was like can you believe fucking John Singleton's doing Shaft As opposed to wait

[00:12:05] John Singleton directed Too Fast Too Furious Like it was hidden I will say putting it I haven't watched Too Fast in a long, long time And I remember being like It's kind of whack I watched Fast One And then Too Fast and Prep for this Yes, same

[00:12:25] It's one of those cases And now I know we're talking about a bunch of shit At the same time here but abduction as well I definitely want to re-watch because We talk about this a lot on Action Boys But Fast One and Fast Too Fast are

[00:12:37] We didn't know how good we had it With like blockbuster movies And I remember being like This is whack and corny And then watching it now being like I just love how many insane choices Everyone in this movie is making

[00:12:51] And now it just doesn't feel like they make movies And I'll even go And I didn't realize it was a Singleton movie Until I sat down to watch it Or maybe we were texting about it You're like yeah it's the John Singleton one

[00:13:04] And I was like oh fuck And then watching it I was like And maybe I'm just you know As a child of the 80s and 90s Conflating John Singleton with black actors And black content But I thought that this one The Singleton movie

[00:13:20] Somehow he throws his flair on top of A franchise that has 50% of the franchise That was built in the first movie And it's definitely because he puts baby boy in As like the That definitely helps it send it in the Singleton direction That he casts Tyrese but still

[00:13:36] But this is the wildest thing I've read So I had always thought it was that That he gets hired on to Do a Fast and Furious sequel And he brings Tyrese with him The other way around Right it was a

[00:13:50] Stacy Snyder who was the head of Universal at the time Really liked baby boy He was like that was like Of all the executives and studio heads in Hollywood None of them even watched baby boy And I remember that Stacy Snyder Was the one who like asked

[00:14:04] For a private screening And then she called me afterwards And was like Tyrese this guy's amazing And was like I want to make him a movie star So then she calls him whatever it is Cause baby boy comes out The same like within a month

[00:14:18] Of the first Fast and Furious movie Is the thing we realized in the box office game Which is just wild to consider That it's like he's getting Creamed at the box office by I think it was the second week of Fast And Furious is the first week

[00:14:32] That baby boy is out I believe that's what it is It's like he can just see his Career leaving right like Oh that's the last time they're gonna let you make A personal character driven 20 million dollar studio drama That comes out in the middle of the summer

[00:14:48] Because he just sees like F***** Vin Diesel doing donuts around him At the box office right And it's like that's your future That's what you're doing from here on out They Will dig into this more But they Stacy Snyder called John Singleton And was like

[00:15:08] Vin Diesel is not doing the Fast and Furious That's gonna be the buddy with Paul Walker Would you recommend Tyrese? Do you think He could do that? And he was like Yeah absolutely, like Endorse him fully and then they were like

[00:15:20] Would you have any interest in directing that? And then he was like yeah sure But it was that order That's f***** wild I had no idea Yeah they called him For the endorsement of Tyrese And then said like if you want to direct it

[00:15:34] We would have you do that That's so f***** Next I sent you guys after watching this and I, Tej and fucking Roman, they, I, you don't know it at the time but it's like I'm gonna do this franchise. They fucking dropped Vin Diesel. It's weird, wild, who knows?

[00:15:53] I'll do it. Fun. Okay. Decent. The third movie, we're not even invited to it. Fuck. Who knows what the fuck this is? Four, they're not invited. Four, they're not invited and it's like, oh okay, I guess they've rebooted it with the original people. No place for me anymore.

[00:16:07] Yeah and then in the fifth movie, like however many ten years after this movie comes out, eight years after this movie comes out, they are all brought back into what will be the most lucrative film career of their lives.

[00:16:19] Like, yes, I mean not only that but you look at their filmographies and like they barely do anything other than these movies now. They do one of these movies every two years and probably get like a quick five million dollars, right?

[00:16:32] Yeah and like then like countless God knows what like promotional. Right. Things, right? Like they launch a liquor or every slice of the fucking McDonald's cup with your picture on it. Yeah and also just like the amount of times they fucking get paid to open up

[00:16:48] a nightclub or whatever, you know? And they both have their music careers but it's like, they both have- No, we should come and they're definitely equal. Yes. Absolutely. Both of them are equal in the recording artist category for sure.

[00:17:02] I forgot Tyrese was on the mass singer this year. I forgot about that. He was Robo Pine. He was Robo Pine, the robot porcupine. They both had like pretty fertile- No clarification needed by the way. When you said Robo Pine, I knew you meant robotic porcupine.

[00:17:18] That was a waste of time and energy. Sorry, I apologize. They both had like pretty fertile and diverse movie careers between two fast and fast five. Yeah. And then it's like now we're just company men for the Fast and Furious franchise like that's our paid vacation.

[00:17:34] These movies take a year to film whatever. But the other wild thing is, I don't know if you know this, Caprice. So the basic gestation of this movie is, you know, this is like this weird programmer movie for Universal, right? Like why not make this little thing?

[00:17:51] The genesis of Fast and Furious as a franchise in the first place is Rob Cohen had done the skulls with Paul Walker. That was like a decent hit. With Pacey too, right? Yeah, kind of at the tail end of the teen thriller boom of the late 90s. Right.

[00:18:08] But Paul Walker's had that run up until that point of like she's all that and Pleasantville and Varsity Blues where he's playing like the asshole, the rival, the pompous jerk, the like the dummy, whatever. It's like he's a very, very pretty man.

[00:18:24] He's just this sort of shockingly like Greek statue kind of guy. Or you're like, who is this guy? And he has this like kind of casual winning surfer energy, you know, even if he's kind of flat as an actor.

[00:18:36] His best stuff, I would argue, the early point of his career is when he played comedic. Like he's very good in Pleasantville. Yeah. Yeah. He's really in on that and he's like totally tapped in comedically. When you ask him to play naturalistic at this point

[00:18:52] in his career, he is incredibly wooden. But yeah, he is undeniably just a watchable dude and just so handsome that for a studio, they're just like, yeah, we got to make this guy like, you know, a twenty million dollar like an under budget movie star.

[00:19:08] Like this could be a guy who makes three of these a year for us and is just like a decent young heartthrob. So it's funny that he's a young attractive wooden heartthrob whose big break wooden heartthrob. Give me your wooden heartthrob ASAP.

[00:19:24] He the fact that he kind of popped in point break ripoff, which is where a wooden handsome actor also popped off for the first time. I mean, I wonder if I find I guess what my hypothesis on pitching is Keanu and Mr.

[00:19:43] Walker have a sort of I think Keanu succeeds a little more. But I think they have that similar energy of like, I don't know if this guy's doing the right thing here, but it's compelling. But I also think there's something where it's like Keanu was

[00:19:57] so in the pocket on like the Bill and Ted movies. And then when he started to go dramatic outside of like my own private Idaho at the beginning, people were like out of your depth, out of your depth, go back.

[00:20:08] And he like wedges his way through until he proved himself as an action star and all that shit that people thought he would never be able to sell himself as like Paul Walker's first leading role is meet the Beatles, which is very much poor man's Bill and Ted.

[00:20:22] I've never seen the Beatles, but right. It's kind of Bill and Ted. Yeah, and he's good in it. Yeah, like once again, he was good at playing comedic dumb. When they asked him to play serious, he got a little too dry. Right. In Pleasantville, he's so perfect,

[00:20:36] playing essentially a half of a person who's playing like a handsome, you know, sitcom character who is like, what's happening to me? Like he's good at that. He's really good at that. He was good and she's all that. Right. When he's playing like the totally contemptible,

[00:20:50] right, like punchable fucking jerk, like he's good in that zone. Then Skulls is a hit and Universal is like Paul Walker could probably be a leading man, right? Like he did all these supporting antagonist parts. He's done a couple of two handers now.

[00:21:04] He could probably be a leading man. So they go to him and they're like, Paul, we want to build a movie around you. And I don't remember if it was they had already optioned the article

[00:21:13] or he found the article, but I think it was a New York magazine article about underground street racing culture. Rob Cohen had found the article and they, yes. And they're like, so we've got this, we've got, you know, and they're like, we'll do point break with cars.

[00:21:28] Like it's the easiest pitch, right? But here's the big thing, what you've got to give Paul Walker credit for. Paul Walker says to them, I fundamentally don't think I can carry a movie. I think I'm better as a counterpoint to someone make it a two hander.

[00:21:42] Right. And of course, we all know who they wanted. The number one choice, Timothy, Oliphant. Now what? Yes, they were like, these are the two guys who are about to pop, make a vehicle for Oliphant and Walker.

[00:21:57] And Oliphant had just done, gone in 60 seconds and was like, no, man, I don't want to do another car movie. No, thank you. And Neil Moritz was like, what about Vin Diesel? His name is diesel. I don't know if he said that last part. He should have.

[00:22:10] It definitely should have. Holy shit, whoever said how about Vin Diesel ended up accidentally setting a fucking series of events that would make millions of billions of dollars for people. It's a billion to billions of dollars. Well, it's like I think that their pitch black probably comes out

[00:22:29] during a weekend right after Oliphant passes. Like the timeline must have been like, yes, it has to be that tight. Oh, I just saw a pitch black. Right. And this guy is fucking weird in that. And those movies are both universal.

[00:22:41] It's like right around the time they're in pre-production on Fast and Furious. They must have gone like, I don't know, that guy is compelling. And that just had a big, robust eight million dollar opening weekend. Yeah. Maybe this guy could carry like, you know, a B movie.

[00:22:57] Fuck. And not only can he he could fucking revolutionize a B movie. Now, this is the other thing I want to say is that last year I took part of this script's gone wild, which is a bunch of guys who do like readings of famous screenplays.

[00:23:18] I think they used to do them live and now in the last year, did the mostly over zoom for charity and stuff. So I did their Fast and Furious reading and played Brian and they had some very late version of the script.

[00:23:32] Like it seemed like a shooting script, but it was so different from what ends up in the actual first movie in a way that makes me feel like Vin kind of rolled up his sleeves

[00:23:44] and started like rewriting scenes on the fly every day on the set of that movie. That's what he claims, right? Like I mean, we you know, he's like, I was the one who gave Dom like his street cred.

[00:23:55] Yeah, because I'll say like that draft had like eight names on it, including David Ayer. It is loaded with racial slurs, which like feels like a real air pass. Yeah, the language has to be on it. It's like it doesn't need to be this off.

[00:24:12] It was like it's amazing how many racial slurs directed at every single protected group there are in that film. But but also just like there's there's a lack of certain specificity. There they're sort of like they they they hadn't latched on

[00:24:27] to what the fundamental humanity and the ethos of the respective characters are. Leti is like garbage in that draft. The whole thing is that she sleeps with Brian and she becomes like the person they fight over.

[00:24:39] And Rodriguez was like, I'm not going to do it if I'm like the woman between them to like make the sister jealous and also piss off the guy. And I think Vin supported her. So like that thing was like totally rewritten on set, it seems like.

[00:24:54] I think anyone would want to fuck Dom's girl. Yeah, we'll make him will make her Dom's sister. Nobody fucks Dom's sister. Oh yeah, yeah, but that's the energy we need you to have in the movie. But nobody fucks my set.

[00:25:05] Yeah, OK, but this is an actor cast to play your sister. You got you're aware. We're not asking your sister. We're not asking Tina Diesel to show up to set. Tina Diesel. So Vin kind of like fundamentally transforms the movie, right?

[00:25:23] And then people are like, oh, this movie is like tracking big. It might open to like 15 million dollars. They open stuff. 40 million dollars. One of the biggest hits of the year. It becomes like culture defining and immediately like Vin Diesel is the guy

[00:25:38] who has the the burst that people thought Paul Walker was going to have where it's just like get this guy in anything. He's a huge breakout of that movie. And honestly, Michelle Rodriguez is the second breakout. Walker, everyone is like, yeah, Walker, sure. Fine.

[00:25:52] He yeah, job in that movie. Like there was no popping for him. The next movie he does is this movie. He doesn't get it. It's not going to doesn't get anything off of this. Is that like one of Michelle Rodriguez's first big roles?

[00:26:03] It's Girl Fight 2 Fast and Furious. Oh, shit. Yeah, that's the leap. It's like, oh, she was in a good Sundance movie. Let's let's get her for this thing. The other movie he does off of this is that Richard Donner timeline movie.

[00:26:19] Yeah, which was like one of those things that they barely acknowledged they made. And then after that he had Into the Blue with Jessica Alba, the diver movie. Running Scared. Yeah, Running Scared is good. Running Scared is good.

[00:26:34] And that's his first like good dramatic performance, I would argue. He's good. He's like solid in that. Yeah, that's a totally that's a good solid thriller. I haven't seen that in forever. I got it. I got to get into it. Obviously, there's Apolo, which I have not seen.

[00:26:48] Griffin, it feels like you've seen that. Have you seen Apolo? I think I have, but I always I maybe have it. You confuse it with Snow Dogs, obviously. I confuse it with Snow Dogs, but I also feel like sometimes I'm like,

[00:27:00] I've seen that movie and then I start watching it and I'm like, I've never seen this. I just built up a detailed enough version in my head of what I imagined it is. You know, I have the opposite frequently where I'm like,

[00:27:12] I've never seen this movie and I'm watching like a weird 80s or 70s movie. And then there's like female nudity and I'm like, no, I've seen this movie. I remember only this part from when I was like 11 for some reason.

[00:27:24] Like your brain is just so my brain is so heterosexual and broken that it's like, I've never seen the hell. No, I remember the campfire sex scene. I've seen this movie. I've seen parts of this movie many times. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:38] I feel like I had this was on a compilation I own that might we had in the neighborhood to share. I'm looking at Walker now. I'm just looking at it. Flags are our fathers. Right. Is he good in that? He's so he doesn't know what you're doing.

[00:27:53] No one's good in that movie. No one is good in that movie. That movie is just kind of it's just kind of boring. I got to rewatch it, though. The Lazarus project. I mean, it really he's dead at a certain point. I mean, no, RIP.

[00:28:07] Yes, he's definitely dead at a certain point. Dr. Sims. Yeah. Dr. Sims reporting for duty. I'd say from 2014 on. Oh, boy, poor guy. But the real death is when you're acting career dies. Yes, absolutely.

[00:28:22] The first death he was in that weird zone where it's like, oh, here's a guy who's been in some big hit movies. He's like very handsome. He gets to play the lead in movies. Some of them are hits.

[00:28:32] Some of them are flops, but neither one feels like any reflection on him. You know where it's like, like, Able low was a hit and timeline was a flop and neither one necessarily hurt or helped his career.

[00:28:42] It was just like, if you need some generic guy to put the center, your thing, he can do that. He was in Takers, which is like a movie that like nominally did well. But like no one knows that he was no one really remembers that.

[00:28:54] Like everything before fast five or fast and furious. Everything before that and after too fast, too furious. He's like clearly just the fifth guy that was called and he shows up and he does his work and no one's no one's, you know,

[00:29:13] yeah, you're packing the streets to cheer about it. But like whatever, like, yes, I don't know. That's the best you could say about Paul Walker in the 2000s. The main quartet was so out until ampersand.

[00:29:26] Like that's the fascinating thing about this franchise is that like all of them were like, I mean, there was that young Hollywood Vandy Fair cover where both Jordana Brewster and Paul Walker on it the year before this. And everyone was like, OK, Michelle Rodriguez, Vin Diesel,

[00:29:39] they're the next two action stars and both of them sort of like wipe out. It really was like at the moment that ampersand happens a real salvation for all four of them. They fast track a sequel immediately, right?

[00:29:54] After that first weekend and yes, Vin already is in his I'm the mastermind of my whole career. I have the plan. I know what I'm doing kind of thing. So they're like sequel and he's like, I don't know. Rob Cohen has already been in development on triple X,

[00:30:10] which they didn't have an actor for at that point in time over at Sony Arrival Studios. So then I think he tries to lure Vin Diesel over to that. So they know Vin Diesel is flirting with that.

[00:30:19] They come up with two treatments for the Fast and Furious sequel, one of which has Dom in it is the continuation of the Dom and Brian movie. And they also simultaneously develop another one knowing there's a good chance that Vin's going to pass.

[00:30:33] And the other one they develop is just it could be almost any crime movie, like, you know, undercover cop movie just with cars in it. Right. It's a premise that if Paul Walker didn't return, you could still do.

[00:30:43] It's like do Miami Vice with some cars in it, right? Like that's really what this premise is. And that's that is to be fair, I think the version with him in it still had a lot of elements of this. It was still like Paul Walker still a cop.

[00:31:00] He has to go undercover again. Dom would be in the Roman Pierce role, but it was like trying to bust a crime lord, a sleazebag like this and Vin's objection. They offered him twenty five million dollars to do that is a lot of money. Wow. Yeah.

[00:31:18] I think he got 20 for triple X. So it was like they had to one up. What do we all think of triple X? The first triple not a fan, not a fan. It's a bad movie. I rewatched it a year ago. It's a movie that makes me uncomfortable.

[00:31:34] Yeah, it's gross. It's kind of a ski V movie. Obviously, Rob Cohen turned out to essentially be a sex criminal. I mean, it's like it's like a fucking surge commercial. You know what I mean? Like, it's like it's like the energy I I love extreme sports,

[00:31:50] but like the extreme energy shit is like, like, I'm not here for that. And so triple X doesn't land on me that well. It's it's that it's like a very inauthentic representation of extreme sports culture combined with what feels like a too authentic representation

[00:32:06] of Eastern European sex rings. Like that's yes. Yes. Yeah. That's what bums me out about it. And like and I think Vin is pretty bad in it. He's just kind of like kind of on autopilot in it. He's just, you know, Zander Cage does not really have

[00:32:24] much of a defined personality, I guess. No, I I fucking love return of Zander Cage, where I feel like he finally figures out who that character is. That movie is silly. It's so good. And even like State of the Union is fun in that way.

[00:32:40] But that becomes like the fatal folly where it's like, OK, so he does fast and furious. It's a huge hit. They go franchise. He goes, no, thank you. I'm making a new thing. He does triple X. It's a huge hit. They go franchise. He goes, no, thank you.

[00:32:53] I'm going back to Riddick and he takes all the goodwill from both of those. Puts it on Riddick, craps out. But that just shows you Vin Diesel is the master of his own. He's like, nah, this nerdy shit is more important than me.

[00:33:06] Now there's there's an interview that Vin did a couple of years ago where they asked him about if he regrets the turning down too fast, too furious decision. And he said like I was definitely too cocky at that point in time.

[00:33:18] Like I was like feeling too big for my britches. But I also I probably should have taken the money and done it. Like I probably should have done it for the fans. It probably would have been the smarter thing for my career.

[00:33:27] But he was like fundamentally, the script was stupid and it didn't feel like a continuation of the fast and furious story. It felt like here's just another movie with cops in cars, which he's right about. He is right. That is a fair assessment.

[00:33:41] And he was ahead of the curb where he was like, this is a saga. It's about the relationship of these two men. And they were probably giving him like jerk off hand signals and going like take the page 25 million. Just shut the fuck up.

[00:33:53] And he's like family is the core of people. Like what are you talking about? He's like, I will join the PGA and come back and fix this. OK, Vin. Oh my God, he's really doing it. The insane thing of him being proven so right about this.

[00:34:07] But so this movie is them just being like, fuck off this guy. We don't need him. Don't overthink it. Paul Walker fine. And then like Tyrese, that's a new movie star with Tyrese. We can rope John Singleton into doing this. He's a higher class filmmaker than Rob Cohen.

[00:34:23] And it's given like a prime summer release and is a hit and people kind of hate it. And it almost ends the franchise. I mean, the question is if say this movie is just a direct sequel and it stars Vin Diesel, do we have fast nine now?

[00:34:40] Like what or would it be more of a thing like where they're like it did well and then they do three and it does less well and it kind of peters out in a more normal way versus the weird comeback narrative, the franchise kind of got to

[00:34:53] construct. Right. Correct. I think there's something about the fact that the franchise met a narrative around the franchise right builds it up. It was so down and out. All of the actors were down and out like everyone had something to prove.

[00:35:08] I think I think they could have made this same movie where it is, you know, he gets called in to break up this ring and he goes the only person I'm working with is Dominic Toretto.

[00:35:19] And it's Vin with the Dom character in this same dynamic and people would have gone to see it. It would have been an even bigger hit than this was, but it would have been diminishing returns. Creatively, it would have taken the bloom off the rose versus when they

[00:35:32] come back with four and people are like, fuck, they're in the same movie again. I've been waiting 10 years for that. You know, right? The nostalgia that there was nostalgia for it that no one I think really do some people Vin Diesel among them probably did.

[00:35:47] Only a lot of people. And there was a Twitter thread recently from a guy who worked, I believe, as a development executive at Universal, who was talking about the weird circuitous path to ampersand getting made

[00:36:01] because after Tokyo Drift they were like, let's just do these direct to video. Like they were ready to turn Fast and Furious into Jarhead and be like every year we'll do Fast and Furious 7 and it will just be in a new

[00:36:13] foreign city where there's a tax incentive and we will get like TV stars who will do anything to play the lead in a directed DVD movie. Jarhead is one of those movies where you're like, whole Jarhead, Frank Grillo and Bruce Willis are making movies

[00:36:32] every two months and they are all on streaming. Like Frank Grillo is in so many movies. So many movies. So and it's and it's so weird considering that Jarhead is this very moody movie about how going to war is actually super boring and nothing

[00:36:50] happens and you go insane and then they made a bunch of sequels. It's like, yeah, it's tough in the suck. Get those guys. And they just like, you know, they're just war movies, I assume. They just became action movies. And right there's Scott Atkins movies.

[00:37:04] I think one of them is called like Jarhead's Circle of Fire or something. Field of Fire. Field of Fire. Yeah. Who's the other one who's in a lot of them? Gabriel Mac, I think, is in a couple of them. Oh, that guy. Absolutely.

[00:37:19] Gabriel Mac is like a replacement level action star. He just kind of looks like a movie star enough if you squint. This is what I'm talking about. Like Universal, that's the same studio, right? It could have so easily gone that way.

[00:37:33] And they would have just been like, well, the relationship that Jarhead's five has to the first Jarhead is the relationship that Fast and Furious five will have to the first Fast and Furious. Just put any two people in a city with cars.

[00:37:45] It doesn't have to be about fucking anything established in the first movie. Vince stood his ground was like, if you're not like continuing the Toretto family saga, I'm out. And yes, I agree with you. If the franchise would have stopped dead, I think after this one,

[00:38:05] they probably if this was a hit, they would have priced themselves out. They would have made a third probably without both of them returning or they would have made a third after a bunch of negotiations and it would have. I don't know.

[00:38:16] I just think people and it would have been OK and like right. And the other thing is that the Tokyo Drift let's Justin Lin sneak into the franchise and be one of its most important. Anyway, that's Fast and Furious talk. You know that and it's crucial.

[00:38:32] But Too Fast and Furious kind of has nothing to do with any of this. Very true. It's sort of funny about it. Like they borrow stuff out of it for the later, you know, but like it's not

[00:38:40] like they're making it being like we really need Tess in this because he's going to be crucial as the computer guy for five more of these movies later. Like no one's thinking that. This is one of those sequels that's like ostensibly more like Teen Wolf 2.

[00:38:55] Like this old model of making sequels were the first movies to hit. And you're like and in the sequel, it happens to a different guy. Yeah. Same thing, different town. Right. Yeah. Where else do they drive cars? I heard Miami. OK, let's go. All right, let's go. Right.

[00:39:14] And like the genius stroke of Tokyo Drift is that they bring the whole kind of like Karate Kid, Teen Sports movie into the mix. But that was basically how that was conceived. This becomes this sort of incorrect takeaway from what worked in the first movie,

[00:39:37] although they clearly wanted to have then, obviously. But like I guess this is a franchise about the continuing adventures of an undercover cop who is friends with criminals and infiltrates car rings. Yeah, he's a former street racer, turned cop. And now in this movie, former cop turned informant.

[00:40:02] Correct. Right. That's the weird thing that he's not a cop in this one either, which is so fun. He's like so removed from. Yeah, they have to reference the last movie so frequently. It's almost like you guys are leaning. I understand it's a sequel.

[00:40:18] But if you're like, is that why you gave the guy at the end of the last movie and escape, it's like, OK, OK, yes. I'm referring to the last movie like it just other stuff has happened in all

[00:40:28] these characters relationships, but they're talking about like the last movie ended and then was like, Paul, we got another mission for you, Brian or Brian, whatever the fuck your name, whatever he's not a narc. That's what they're trying to make sure that everybody knows.

[00:40:41] He's not a narc anymore. Yeah, he's no longer because that has to be like he can't be a rat anymore. And it's like, OK, so in this movie, he sort of gets his rep washed by Roman. He's no longer a fucking ACAD.

[00:40:58] He's no longer a pig, but it's also this weird thing where it's like they're sort of trying to make him like a. Yeah, David, was that you? Yes, my phone made a noise. Ignore it. No idea. I know the I know the noise your phone made.

[00:41:17] It was Devon Aoki. Your phone just said Devon Aoki's name. Google Devon Aoki because I wanted to check something and it said her name. Wow. The thing I was going to say is that they're sort of trying to make like Brian

[00:41:32] O'Connor, the like John Maclean, where it's like, well, he's like sort of a cop, but maybe he's off duty. He doesn't want to be doing this. But they're also making him way cooler that he actually like knew a bunch of cool guys. But I don't know.

[00:41:44] They they retcon they retcon. This is like a trope of the franchise. It's just retconning people's past to make it even like Dominic Toretto is the perfect example. It's like he also has a brother. Yeah. And no, they none of them look alike.

[00:42:00] Right. They're all three different ethnicities. There are there is an incredible line in F nine where they go like that mixed up Toretto gene poll. Like someone doesn't acknowledge like your Brazilian, your Italian. Just don't don't even bother.

[00:42:19] Don't they shouldn't have even thrown something in, but whatever, I guess. No, it's one offhand line. Someone says it dismissively like that mixed up Toretto gene poll. Whatever is in there in fast one.

[00:42:30] You get a little bit of Brian's history that he was like a street car guy before getting this like which makes sense because it's not a skill set. A lot of cops have and then in this one, they get even more retconning

[00:42:43] to his past where it's like he's got more crimes listed. He's more of a badass than we ever mentioned. We don't even give him any credit for his cop time. But then it's like he also used to roll with this guy

[00:42:55] who's very much like Dominic Toretto doesn't ever bring him up in fast one. Like, you know, I had a friend who was a non white dude who I ended up pretty tight with. This exact same dynamic like this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's the thing.

[00:43:11] It's like I do think the pitch that they presented to Vin Diesel had to have been very similar to what this movie ended up being just with the rewrites to bring in a new character and try to tailor make something a little bit to Tyrese.

[00:43:25] That's basically the pitch of later movies where it's like, well, how could they possibly get away? You know, they they three, you know, they're on the run. But it's like, yeah, but there's this one job that only they can do.

[00:43:36] And the government just has to bring them in. That's just the pitch every time. Mission Impossible plays that game too. Every movie it's like we're officially out of the IMF. It's like, again, I don't join again. You guys should be freelancers. Just go do something else.

[00:43:53] Yeah, we're going to coffee shop, whatever. It's just it's funny to me that it's like the thrilling thing that the first Fast and Furious leaves you with is Brian letting Dom get away. Right. Yes. And the note of ambiguity that the ending is not neat,

[00:44:15] that he gives Dom the car that Dom drives off and Brian's just kind of standing there in the middle of the road as the cops begin to surround him. And you don't know what decision this guy's made, how he's going to explain it.

[00:44:26] Has he turned his back on the law? Like, you know, the one thing you know is that the brotherhood transcends everything else. Of course it does. I love the end of Point Break, but the end of Point Break obviously

[00:44:38] Patrick Swayze, Crime Pays and and he dies and you know, that's the end. It's a conclusive end. And brilliantly, obviously they're like, well, we can't kill Dom. Everyone loves. You know, we can go to jail. Dom's got to hit the road. He's got drive to Cuba.

[00:44:53] A fast one wanted to follow Point Break even more. Be really funny at Paul like Brian's like here, Dom, gives him the keys, Dom drives away immediately, crashes in the car, blows up and dies. He just spins out. Immediately incinerates himself. Either say drives into the ocean.

[00:45:09] Oh yeah, yeah. The 50 years laughing lose something, brah. But like that, that ending is the juice to then have it be like, OK, Brian has now gone full time underground street racing. But this opening of the movie is kind of a canard.

[00:45:27] They're giving you the one classic Fast and Furious street racing set piece at the beginning and then immediately the cops find him and they're like, OK, stop being in a Fast and Furious movie. Come back and be a cop. Hey, buddy.

[00:45:38] No, it does also feel like they're like, yeah, you're not Vin Diesel. OK, like I guess you just won a street race against fucking Devon Aoki. And what's his pants for Prison Break? Amerino, Alaska, Michael Ely, right? But they're like, but the audience doesn't like watching you win.

[00:45:58] OK, you're not going to do that for this whole movie. Please. But yes, that moment when, you know, they want to team him up with the fucking dumb head with the pizza parlor soda cup. Yeah, with the frigging cargo pants.

[00:46:14] Yeah. And he's like, you can't put me there with a stiff shirt. I need someone who knows their shit. That feels like the movie saying, oh, my God, he's got to bring Dominic Toretto back and he's like, here's some guy you've never heard of.

[00:46:32] Like like the movie, the script is exactly. Oh, I got just the guy and in the one version of the script, it's like cut to Toretto's garage and this version is like cut to demolition Derby and a hungry

[00:46:44] person is driving. It would be funny if it cut to like him call. He calls Dom and Dom's like, no, I know I'm OK. No, I'm on the run right now. I don't want to go to Miami. And he's like, OK, OK, OK, I'll call Roman.

[00:46:56] He's good. He's like 80 percent of you. It's it's fine. It's fine. Brian's like, look, the FBI is willing to pay you twenty five million dollars for one mission. I'm in Bukhari. I'm solving extreme sports crimes.

[00:47:13] Also, the idea that Dom did get a call to do this Miami mission, he's like, I really can't be fucking with that. I am I'm super. I'm in a lot of other shit right now. And he's just Dominic Toretto living in like other Vin Diesel movies.

[00:47:29] I just can't be there right. I'll be and then he hears Roman goes in. It's like, well, we just cleared Roman's history from him doing the mission. And Vin's like, mother fucker, I should have done the fucking Miami mission.

[00:47:43] They would have now I'm never babysitting some government officials. Kids he did. He did become the pacifier. What? Just two years later? Yes. Oh my God. You you're a Vin three years later. You're a Vin Diesel expert, Griff. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:58] Does he ever talk about that in his sort of grand narrative of stardom? Or is he more just like, yeah, that's like a movie I did. I feel like he never really talks about I mean,

[00:48:09] I feel like sometimes on the social media, he'll post like like throwback Thursday, pacifier, nostalgia shit. He'll be like, happy birthday, Lauren Graham. It was great working with you. Yeah. Remember the duck. Creative Sundays, the pacifier. God, creative Sundays.

[00:48:26] Creative Sundays and Toretto Tuesdays, two of my favorite weekly occurrences. The only two days I the only holidays as I and Atheist celebrate are Toretto Tuesdays and creative Sundays. I observe every Toretto Tuesday. But I'm orthodox with my Toretto Tuesdays. I never miss.

[00:48:48] Well, I wait on Toretto Tuesdays. I need someone else in my building to push the elevator button for me because I feel like you shouldn't be operating machinery of any kind on a Toretto Tuesday. Every Toretto Tuesday, I accidentally kill somebody with a wrench.

[00:49:06] I feel like no, I do feel like pacifier is the one movie I never really hear him talk about in terms of his like grand career strategy. Right. And I guarantee he'll he'll retcon it as like you got to make a movie for the families.

[00:49:19] Yes, that's totally what it is. Yeah. That was so the playbook at that point in time. He thinks he's Arnold. You have to do your kindergarten cop. He wants to make a Disney movie like it makes sense in that way.

[00:49:30] And was also we should acknowledge a big hit. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, a big fucking hit. It's a formula that works. Yes, this is the thing, though, much like too fast, much like triple X. These are movies that made money but earned no credibility with the public.

[00:49:46] Like the public was just like, you got me with that one, but I'm not going to. Bad aftertaste. Right. Right. Fool me once. Yeah. Vin has made the short film, I think it's called Los Bandalaros that is on the Ampersand home video releases that he directed. Yeah.

[00:50:05] That is the what was Toretto doing in Cuba? Fills in during Too Fast, Too Fierce. That's awesome. Which is just like buying white pants that fit his quads. Pretty much. White Capri pants. Him becoming a local legend, essentially. The dream for a guy like Vin Diesel is like,

[00:50:25] let me make a movie about how badass I became for the two movies I wasn't around for. It's like, OK, man, cool. And it's like not an action movie anymore. It's just a moody short character piece. Dominican Republic, I'm sorry. He goes to Cuba in Fate.

[00:50:40] Yes. Oh, fate is the one where he opens with him. Yeah. The white pants. Yes. This is Dominican Republic, but I do believe he has white pants in this as well. But yes, so at this point in time, it's the Paul Walker franchise.

[00:50:52] It's can we make Tyrese a leading man? And it's an easy job for Singleton, who's now had a failed franchise starter and a return to personal movies that didn't make much of an impact at the box office. We should mention right off the bat.

[00:51:10] This film does the thing we love the most, David. Changes the universal logo. Yeah. And oh God. And it's so good. I'm sorry. It's too. It's so aggressive. It's the most. It's the most. Opening I've ever seen. Yes, it is the most longer than you.

[00:51:26] Longer than we can articulate. Yes. It's like six beats longer than you think it's going to be. Because it starts out with the Universal Globe. It's the normal logo. And then once you get the camera has zoomed out enough in the universe

[00:51:40] that the globe is fully captured on screen, it then becomes. Chrome is surrounded by rivets. You hear a lot of auto mechanic sounds, worrying and drills and shit. I'm watching it now just for fun. It becomes a hubcap. It does. It's rims.

[00:51:57] Yeah. And it like and it rules. It rules. It's so good. This sort of herky jerky, you know, machine way that it moves is the best. It's so, so good. I think it's important to have this early in the movie to prepare your

[00:52:13] fucking inner ears for how this movie does stop and start and pans and shit like that. You have to be sort of like if you saw the shit in 40 X, I could see like my mom barfing or something. I want them to do a 40 X

[00:52:26] rerelease of this movie, a remaster. I do it's remastered for 40. You're a guy who is in charge of remastering. It's like we go to Griffin. He's the best. I think we should add a water squirt here. More rat smell. I just I appreciate.

[00:52:45] I think Griff, we've talked about this. I don't think the Fast and the Furious is very well directed. I don't think Rob Cohen is a particularly good director. I'm going to follow this up in a second. Go on. Yeah.

[00:52:54] This movie is it just feels like John Swing singleton is like this movie should feel kind of swagged out like it should be big and loud and colorful and silly and it should be having fun and it should be loud.

[00:53:09] And did I mention that the volume should be high and the sound effects should be, you know, in your ears and it doesn't feel like he's phoning it in. I guess is, you know, for whatever you want to say about this movie,

[00:53:23] some people, I guess it's still kind of the redheaded stepchild of the Fast and the Furious franchise. It shouldn't be, but I guess it kind of Tokyo Drift deserves the deserves the black sheep of the family. Now, but I love Tokyo Drift.

[00:53:36] I like Tokyo Drift too, but I think it's the least cast, whatever. We don't get it right. You know, it's a debate. It's a debate, but I just feel like he did not, whatever.

[00:53:45] He he he rolled up his sleeves and made an effort and had fun and delivered a very entertaining movie that is not like is not a yawn. I guess that's that's my praise for it. Right? Like it's not despite everything we're saying,

[00:54:01] it's not just kind of like, all right. And then they blah, blah, blah. But, you know, like it's trying to make every scene very entertaining. It's truly better than I remember. Like I remember leaving the theater going, oh, man.

[00:54:12] But I remember leaving the theater for Fast One going, that shit was sick. Yeah. I remember leaving the theater for Fast Two going, oh, sequels have casually let me down over and over again. But then rewatching this. I'm like, we should talk.

[00:54:26] You talked about the opening of the Universal. The next three things are like cars pulling up and it's like, yo, drag race. And then Paul Walker going, fuck, all right, I'll race there. And it's like four minutes.

[00:54:39] A badass driving sequence to get him to the race, which is another badass driving. Yes. And so the movie has like nine minutes of unbroken action out of the gate. And I'm like, OK, yeah, no, this is movies doing exactly what I wanted to do

[00:54:53] right now. I put it on last night at 10 30 and did not feel a lick of tired or wanting to look at my phone. I was blasting through this movie. I loved it. I think it opens so strong. I like this movie.

[00:55:07] It has grown on me over time, although I think it has some fundamental issues. Namely that the script just sucks. It's got a really boring script. John Singleton to go back to what David said. John Singleton is the only person not phoning in this movie.

[00:55:21] He is directing everyone else's trying hard but not landing. Yes. But he's directing the shit. Absolutely. That's the biggest thing. And I feel like that's why the universal logo is such a mission statement

[00:55:32] for this movie, because he said that he saw Fast and Furious when it came out in theaters the same weekend that Baby Boy is bombing. Right. And was like, fuck, I should have done this. Like he had this moment where he's like, I knew about this fucking

[00:55:46] street racing culture in Southern California. I could have made this movie. I should have thought to pitch this. This is a good idea for a commercial studio film. So then when they offered him, he's like, yeah, I know that world.

[00:55:59] But then they give him this script that sort of becomes like Miami Vice. It really does feel like, oh, it's just two guys trying to stay cool, go undercover in a city to bust up some Coke Lord. Right? Like we're going to talk about Cole Hauser.

[00:56:13] We're going to get to him in a minute. We're going to get there. Wait, go ahead. Before we go any further into the movie, the most confusing thing about this movie is that it starts with Hans Funeral, a character we have not met yet.

[00:56:23] And to keep the timeline even wonkier. They're at Hans Funeral at the beginning of this movie. And that's all I can think about. That's a weird thing. He's there in his own funeral. He's there. No, sorry. Griff, what were you going to say?

[00:56:38] Don't say anything, Griffin. Sorry. Sorry. No, no, I was just going to say like, I, you know, he's talked about. I found this interview that he gave where he talked about like his influences on this movie. Yeah, here it is.

[00:56:51] This is from Blackfilm.com in 2003, when this movie is about to come out. And when this movie was released and the reception was negative, not just from the public, but I think critics were kind of like, why did John Singleton make this?

[00:57:09] I think critics were were generally mad and it didn't help that it was called too fast, too furious. I feel like there was a weird target on this movie's back because it had this ludicrous name, which it also was like called the Fast and the Furious 2 for

[00:57:24] a while, like they re-released the first movie on DVD when this was about to come out on some special edition with a sneak peek. And I distinctly remember it still being called the Fast and the Furious 2

[00:57:36] on that sneak peek a couple months earlier when they announced like it's called too fast, too furious. I feel like everyone in the world laughed. Like it became the new Breaking Two electric Boogaloo or whatever.

[00:57:46] It just became the new Jokey sequel title where it's like they've gone too far. They're trying to make sequels sound cool and it sounds lame or whatever, which also then becomes another hallmark of the Fast and Furious franchise is

[00:58:00] every title has to have some new titling structure, some new convention. It's playing by its own rules. Well, that's the thing. The meta narrative is important in these movies, because connecting all them because nothing else does. Like Vin is in and out, Paul Walker in and out.

[00:58:17] Like people are very out and shit like that. You're just like, oh, and so there's nothing like, all right, this one. Let's name it Furious meets fast. It's like perfect like printing. We got a poster. Let's go. Well, but that's the thing.

[00:58:31] So like I think people were like Singleton, you fucked this up. Like you fucked up this franchise that like the first Fast and Furious movie. As you said, David, I fully agree. Rob Cohen is in addition to by all accounts being a pretty monstrous

[00:58:44] man being a shitty director, right? Like he is a good director. He's a hack. He's a hack. And the first Fast and Furious movie, you rewatch it. And it is astonishing the gulf between how poorly directed

[00:58:58] all the dialogue sequences are, which are really just carried by the like undeniable movie star energy of the actors and how exciting the race sequences are that were clearly directed by a second unit that Rob Cohen

[00:59:12] had no handover because they do not feel like they're part of the same movie. They have like a completely different visual language. The racing sequences are well constructed and visually inventive. And like he'd like the dialogue sequences are like ineptly covered and like riddled with mistakes.

[00:59:31] Singleton right off the bat, he's making a movie where all of it is directed by one person where the dialogue scenes are as kinetic as the race sequences. And the race sequences are now even more kinetic than the racing was in the first movie.

[00:59:48] So that shit heightens well from one to two. They do a great job of making the I think one has better set pieces, like more exciting set pieces, but two ramps up what the driving looks like in a fucking cool way.

[01:00:02] I mean, it's the bummer of this movie is that the first ten minutes you're like, I just want to watch this. Just show me this fucking escalation, which Singleton's whole defense when people would criticize him for it was like

[01:00:13] I wasn't trying to do the same racing sequences as the first movie. I was looking at anime, like I was looking at Speed Racer. This interview with Black film F zero. The beginning of this movie reminds me of the Super Nintendo game F zero so much.

[01:00:27] Zero movie. OK. So Gabriel, this Black film interview, they say some of the action car scenes were similar to those scenes we see in video games where any games and influence in shooting those scenes. He said, yeah, funny, you were able to pick that up.

[01:00:39] When I was formulating the way I want to shoot the film, I watched a lot of anime. I watched the Road Warrior over and over again, which I feel is the best car movie ever made.

[01:00:47] I play a couple of video games where it allowed me to free my mind and think about shooting something different from the traditional way. I also played with Hot Wheels on my desk and thought about how a camera can shoot this from different angles.

[01:01:00] So he's just going like full cartoon, like Gonzo, like let's get as creative and have as much fun with this as possible. Which watching it today, you're like this tough rips. And at the time, I think people are like, where is the versamillitude of the first movie?

[01:01:14] Which the versamillitude of the first movie you kind of have to put in quotes, you know, but like I think that movie was grittier and more street level. And when this movie has like a literal neon light consultant who is there on set every day.

[01:01:30] To navigate how to shoot that much neon. That guy's only worked on Too Fast, Too Furious and Batman Forever. He's like his only two jobs. Oh yeah. Yeah, he was just no, he was in all the Schumacher movie. He was Joel Schumacher's guy.

[01:01:44] But that's what it feels like. It does kind of feel like he's doing a Schumacher to the first fast and furious is Bert and Batman's, you know? Yes, yes, yes. I mean, I think right. I think the Bert and Batman's are better made and have more attention

[01:02:00] than the first fast and furious, but that is a good analogy. And yes, that's that's that's perfect. We should mention while we're on the opening of the film also because, Gables, you talked about what a payday this has been for Ludacris and

[01:02:14] Tyrese across the rest of their career. Yeah. Tyrese was obviously a studio choice. Stacy Snyder wanted him. Ludacris was cast because Sincleton was a big fan of him and his music videos and thought he had an undiable energy.

[01:02:28] And so they gave him the prime role of Michael Ely's character. He was only supposed to be the driver in this one sequence. Slapjack or whatever they call it. They named him in the movie. Yeah, he was supposed to play fucking Slapjack and

[01:02:43] Jaurul was supposed to play the role that then became Tej. That was supposed to be the extension of Jaurul's character. Because that's kind of what he is in the first one. Right. Like here's the ringleader. Here's the PT Barnum of this shit. Right.

[01:02:56] It's the Vin Diesel story, but with an idiot at the center of it. You know what it is? Like he's at the peak of his fame, Jaurul. And they're like, come on, come be in two fast appearances. Like no, no, no, like I'm too famous.

[01:03:10] He got paid fifteen thousand dollars for the first movie. Yeah. They offered him five hundred thousand for two fast and we're like you get to be like the big supporting character in this. And he was like. You'll be on the poster. Yeah. No. No, thank you.

[01:03:25] The beginning of this movie where Tej is talking to the guy from Prison Break, the handsome Amarino, Amarino, Nilesco. Yes, who's got it? He's like Orange Julius. So he's talking to Orange Julius and their wardrobe is so insane. The background is so crazy.

[01:03:43] I put this on last night. Tiffany, my wife comes out of the bedroom to say good night in the living room and she goes, what movie are you watching? And I'm like, it's too fast, too furious. Sequel C. Paul Walker. She's like, yeah, no, no, no.

[01:03:55] I reckon that are they is it like is it Halloween or something? And I'm like, no, that's how Ludacris's character is introduced in this movie with like an afro pick in open big out fro like the biggest after like an undercover brother sized after.

[01:04:12] Yeah, like like played for size and laughs. Yes. And then like a deep cut fucking like, hey, you work in cars. So you'll have a coveralls on, but they'll be stylish and open. And then Orange Julius, Slapjack and whatever David's phone was calling her.

[01:04:29] Devon Aoki Devon Aoki when all three of them you're like, holy shit. It's like G.I. Joe, like each one of them matches their car in a way. And you're like, oh, this movie. I'm like, Tiffany's like, is it Halloween?

[01:04:40] I go, no, but it might as well be. It's a day. It's creative. Yeah, it's right. We're recording on Toretto Tuesday. We should mention happy to be Toretto Tuesday. It's Hot Wheels. It's it is right. It's like you get your Hot Wheels out and there's an orange one.

[01:04:57] You're like, I bet a guy in orange would drive this car. The orange racer. Yeah, exactly. But it also feels like the this section of the movie, this opening set piece, looks like a bowl of fruit loops held up under a black light. Like it is just crazy.

[01:05:14] Yeah. Every car is eight colors and none of them overlap between the cars. Right. Right. And they were all like custom made. He was like very particular about what models they got, what people wouldn't drive.

[01:05:27] You know, disregarded a lot of potential money for sponsorship deals because he was like, no one's driving a fucking forward focus in this movie. Get out of here. And then they hired like top of the line people and not just put decals on but

[01:05:38] like custom paint each one for each character or whatever. You have these insane neon lights underneath each car. Which I love. Great choice. They're racing. They sort of have like Tron like light streams. It's like fucking building your own PC the way these guys build their cars.

[01:05:53] It's like, oh, cool. The tower glows. Yeah. But like you got Singleton doing like crazy can to camera angles and like big like cartoony push ins and using a lot of CGI. Speaking of the car, I love the speaker little sequence where it's like

[01:06:09] they're having like a sound off and then one guy's speaker like has another speaker inside of it. Yeah, it opens and like unfurls and there's two more speakers that come out. Dude, that shit is so early 2000s late 90s. That was my high school years.

[01:06:26] Everyone in my high school had half their trunk given up to a giant speaker. That was just like a thing on long Island. It's like your car would just be like and you'd be driving like everyone drove like their dad's 89 Buick Century, but they would put like a $200

[01:06:41] speaker in the trunk that would like rattle the fucking locks of your door. Like there's a cool breaks because the base is so loud. The car is not structurally like it doesn't have enough structural integrity to handle that decibel.

[01:06:59] But that that I love the street car culture and the idea of that and then watching it get absolutely bastardized and movie eyes is so fucking fun to see where guys got two chicks who are just into the car.

[01:07:14] I just love this world where it's like if this is true about car racing, then what else is true in this world? It's like they are professional athletes. People treat them like they're fucking millionaire Hollywood.

[01:07:26] When when he goes, anyone can race and you go, I could pick anybody. And then they're like, oh, fuck, it's Brian. It's like, you didn't think he would pick a guy who could beat you. He's good. I don't even understand the rules. And what why?

[01:07:41] Why do all three of you still do the race? And more importantly, why do you still jump the bridge after you've lost? That is a good point. I would not have the bridge. Why would you risk trying to just come in third?

[01:07:57] Well, you jump a bridge because that shit's cool as hell. Have you always wanted to do that? No, Ted, he's like told you there was a surprise and you're like, fuck, yeah, that is not something you should do to your friends without warning

[01:08:11] then, but that is a wild choice. It's the thing about it, though. It's like when he says I told you be a surprise, I'm like, I know that this is going to end fine. If everyone died, does Ted go home and go like, well, that's how it goes.

[01:08:24] When you race at night in Miami, it was surprising. I was right. No one they were expecting to live or is he guilty? He's like, you know what? The bride, I should have maybe not sprung the bridge on. Maybe a word of alert.

[01:08:38] Even if you're fine, if you're Brian, aren't you like, bro? What the fuck was that bridge thing? And he's like, I thought that would be so sick. He's like, no, don't call me in to race people if you're going to fucking make it.

[01:08:50] Don't invite me here and then also like that's like, hey, how's you want to come to a party in my house? Then when you show up, I cut to five rugby guys and I'm like, hey, this is the guy who called you guys pussies. Like what?

[01:09:02] You invited me to your party and now you're putting my life in danger. It's also so fascinating because like I I know it's a leap, but in my mind until I rewatch this movie, I always make the distance shorter. But like this movie, he is literally

[01:09:20] with the literal leap. But what I was going to say is in this movie, Tej is literally a. Dude who sort of organizes these races and owns like an auto shop. And his level of expertise is like he can put a crazy speaker,

[01:09:36] as you said, in your trunk. He's not even the car tech guy. There's another character who will get conflated to be just Tej. Right? Because in my mind, I go like he starts out as the car tech guy

[01:09:48] and then he becomes like the world's greatest tech guy, period. But no, it's like he's he actually is it's called out as he's the second best hacker in the world behind. Yes, right. It's like, where'd you learn that owning a mechanic shop in downtown LA?

[01:10:04] Miami. In this movie, he's a guy who employs a decent tech guy. Yeah, right. And then he becomes the second best hacker in the world. Also, I feel like his character in the later movies is like very restrained. Like he becomes the straight man of the group.

[01:10:20] He's the serious. He's the saucer under the teacup. He's the kind of like, all right, guys, you know, like that's kind of his vibe, which is they got a tank. While we're on the topic, Roman isn't a fast talker in this movie. No, not at all. No.

[01:10:35] And like Roman is kind of like a crazy wild card badass. Right? Like you're like, chill out, man. You're being too aggressive. He's he's like the loose cannon in this. Right. Yes. But after five and he's the scared one every time, right? Which is just such a funny.

[01:10:52] As a matter of fact, some would argue in this movie, the thing that is the craziest is how sociopathically him and Brian treat each other when they're on the same side during missions. Like in this movie, they're like like Wolverine and Cyclops, right? Yeah, uneasy allies. Right. Right.

[01:11:09] And he's just like fucking wild energy. Sometimes he could be a little charming, but he's like fucking guy. He might pounce on someone at any moment. And then to get the call to movies later, I remember when

[01:11:20] Ampersand was coming out and he had done Annapolis Tyrese with Justin Lin. And I remember him doing press or something else and being like, yeah, I don't know. I was expecting to get the call. Like I was the second lead of the second movie.

[01:11:33] Everyone else's back for this fourth movie. It's Justin Lin director I worked with. I'm waiting. Hopefully if they make a fifth when they called me. Can you imagine when they're like he's been in Transformers? He hit he was he was a major guy.

[01:11:46] He was big. He was at a big point. What's the movie Ampersand? It's the fourth Fast and Furious, which is called Fast Ampersand Furious. OK, well that's not like is that a thing? All right, it's what I call. I'm not as into these movies as you are.

[01:12:01] Well, we appreciate that's perfect for the audience, though me, David and Griffin did not need that. OK, yeah, you say Ampersand to me and David, we know exactly what movie you're talking about, but we do appreciate that. No, turns out perspective.

[01:12:15] Yes, even he could be the connoisseur of context. Ben, the first movie is just titled The Fast and the Furious. Right? Sure. Sure. Then this one, as you know, is called Two Fast, Two Furious. Two Fast, yep. Right. Then the third film is called Fast and the Furious.

[01:12:33] No, at the beginning, Colin, Tokyo Drift, right? Yeah. OK. So people are like, what are they going to call the fourth one? The fourth one they call Fast and Furious. It is almost the same title as the first movie.

[01:12:46] The only difference is they took out the definite articles and put an ampersand instead of spelling and so I always call the movie Ampersand. OK, and then five is called like Fast Five. Right. More or less. Right. Then six is Fast, Ampersand, Furious Six.

[01:13:03] Yes. And then Furious Seven spelled. No, Furious Seven numeral because Fast Five is spelled out F-I-V-E. Yes. Furious Seven is Furious, numeral seven, then the fate of the Furious is eight. And then F nine. F nine. I love it. Yeah. I fucking love it. The best.

[01:13:22] Named after my favorite key on the keyboard. Oh, it's so it's so sad. They should do a tie in with the F nine key on your keyboard so that you can. If you ever want to watch F nine, you just you just hit F nine on your keyboard.

[01:13:35] It should just be if you hit F nine, your computer says family. Family is what's important. But yes, OK, so this awesome race happens and then Brian has stopped by the cops, right? And we realize because the first movie you you're like maybe 30 minutes in before

[01:13:57] the turn happens that you realize he's an undercover cop. Yeah, there's a lot of lead up. Right. You start with him at the cafe hitting on Mia, then meeting Dom, getting into fight. Then he goes to a race. He like shows up.

[01:14:10] You know, he doesn't win, but he makes an impression. All that shit. Then finally, you see him going to the to the cops. And in the first movie, that wasn't part of the advertising campaign. It's genuinely like a first act twist that this guy is undercover.

[01:14:24] So this one you're watching, you don't really understand. Is he a cop? Has he totally given up to just be a racer, especially because the ending of the first movie is ambiguous. But then James Remar stops him with a gun,

[01:14:38] like a grappling hook gun that has an electro hook. He shoots an electric trident out of a harpoon gun out of a helicopter. Right. I mean, this is another thing where like in 2003, people are like jumped the shark, fucked it up, ruined everything that was good

[01:14:55] about the first movie. This is a cartoon now. And when you watch this in 2021, you're like, yes, of course, the types of weapons they have in the Fast and Furious franchise. This movie is calm by the stand. They should bring James Remar back.

[01:15:08] They should bring him back for now. This is what I want to say, though. Do you not watch this movie the whole time expecting James Remar to turn and turn out to be working for the bad guys? Yeah, because he I mean, James Remar is a classic scumbag.

[01:15:24] Like he plays many a villain over the years. So yes, it would be obvious instead. It's just like he's annoying. Right. I guess he's sort of the thought he's the one who's like, well, I don't know. That's a bad idea. I mean, that's really all he's got.

[01:15:41] Well, there's there's Wilkins who I love. Well, Wilkins, who's played by Tom Pearce. He's the guy from the first one. In the first one, sorry, Wilkins, not Wilkins. Wilkins, sorry, sorry, sorry. He's great. I love that actor. I as far as I know, Barry is his name.

[01:15:57] Yeah, as far as I know, he's still alive. Correct. Yeah, he's 70 years old. But you know, come on, bring him back to this. Is my feeling watching this movie? I know they brought in bring everyone back.

[01:16:06] And I know even Mendes is like retired and she's like the White Whale. She's like the one where if you got her, I'm not taking that as an excuse. They got her at the end of five. I'm not going to be happy until she comes back.

[01:16:17] But like, get Tom Barry back. Get Devon Aoki. She's apparently sort of semi-retired as well. You know, bring in fucking Slapjack back. Slapjack, bring back Julius. Like, come on. Verone literally says at the end of this movie, like, I'll see you again.

[01:16:34] It's like he's got to wander in at in fast 10 and be like, oh, did I miss that? When they finally save the president from the aliens or whatever. And he walks out and goes, oh, God, I missed the whole thing. Then let's let's talk about Cole Hauser.

[01:16:49] This is a very curious casting decision. So I just on the subject of Cole Hauser, I just want to say, bring him back. This is the least reputable source in the world. OK. All right. But I was looking at the Fast and Furious wiki

[01:17:06] like the internal wiki for the universe. Fast and furious. Dot fandom dot com. Yes. And I was sort of trying to take account of, like, which main Fast and Furious villains are still canonically alive and which ones are dead. OK. Not that that really matters, right?

[01:17:27] So I was like the other thing I was thinking is what they should bring back is the like Johnny Tran's gang, right? Johnny Tran, who's like the main villain of the first movie. Played by a Bond villain, Rick Ewn. Rick Ewn. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, he's good.

[01:17:44] I was like that feels like that's one of those original sin, foundational rivalries and Dom's past that you could bring back from the dead, right? Right. This Wikipedia entry says the original ending of Furious 7 before it was rewritten due to Paul Walker's

[01:18:02] death featured a post credit scene where a team consisting of Johnny Tran. Carter Verone. That's Cole Houser's character. Arturo Braga, who is the John Ortiz character from Ampersand, who comes as of course, come back, right? Comes in six ZZ, who is like the Henschman,

[01:18:24] Hitman character in Fast Five, working for the main Maboss villain. Yeah. And Deckard Shaw are brought together to form a super team to go after Dominic Bryant. Right. So it's like a thunderbolt. It's like a Justice League dark or whatever. Like the villains have united.

[01:18:43] But so you're saying this was cut to accommodate instead the whole. Look, that is all it says on the Fast and Furious Wikipedia with no citation. So that very well might be fan fiction, right? But but I read that and I go, well, they should do that.

[01:19:01] They should make it clear that there's a league of super villains and that fucking Cole Houser is working with John Ortiz and everybody. Here's the only reason you don't do that. The villains in Fast and Furious are not really the thing.

[01:19:15] Right. Until later when they build up the shawls. And honestly, that kind of, you know, that had its pluses and minuses. Them doing that. Right. Like before then, yeah, the villains are pretty like you're saying all these things are like, right, Rick, you know, it's like they're pretty

[01:19:31] disposable family is the most important thing. Yada, yada, yada. That is why, David, I would not necessarily be that excited if they announced that we're bringing back one of those guys. If they announce that all six guys have formed a Voltron.

[01:19:43] Yeah. If they've got like a suicide squad. Yes. Fast and Furious bad guys. That's really right. Like I just think it's funny if all these guys show up and they're like, you thought we were expendable. Speaking of Griffin, speaking of

[01:19:58] we were talking about this off mic, you know, actors who you're like, what are they up to? And it turns out they're on some TV show. What TV show is Cole Hauser on right now? Oh, Jesus. He's on a hit show. Hit network.

[01:20:11] Most watch shows on television, not network cable. He's on a cable show. That's one of the most watched shows on television. He's not on one of the Walking Dead shows. No, I know what I know the answer to this.

[01:20:22] I just don't know the name of the show because there's like eight shows that fit in that world. Fuck. It's it. Is it like is it like a USA Network thing? Yes, it's one of the shows that you don't know what channel it's on.

[01:20:35] It's on the Paramount Network. Exactly. Yellowstone. Yes, on Yellowstone. That's the name of it. Kaaas and Wes Bentley and Kelly Riley and Danny Houston and Gil Birmingham. They're just all plugging away. I saw him on the Long Island Railroad once when I was coming home from my

[01:20:56] internship or my PA job with my wife. He was with his parents. And we were sitting in like the same section, the same train car. And I said, Hey, man, I love you as an actor. I don't and I'm young.

[01:21:11] I don't understand the level how you're supposed to talk to people like that. Sure. I haven't had it. I haven't had enough of the reverse engagements that I realize how awful I'm being of a person at this point.

[01:21:21] You had not yet gotten to the point where you tell people to fuck off on the LIRR. Exactly. So and I'm like, I think you're such a great. He's like, yeah, I'm like goodwill hunting and I'm like, I think of another movie. You can't even say school ties.

[01:21:39] No, I don't remember school ties. I forget I say another. I finally come to why I'm like, oh, I can't play the other movies. He's right. He's a confused. That's what it is. He's the paddle guy. So I say days of use.

[01:21:51] He's like, oh, that's really and his and I've been in this exact situation where he's like, OK, and like turns back and his parents are like, talk to the boy. You know what I mean? Like his parents give him the look like

[01:22:05] called like, come on, this is part of the bit. You know, and so I've seen it with my mom where we were in Vegas and my mom is going, no, you should take a picture with him. And I'm like, the guy's not even asking for a picture.

[01:22:20] And I'm like, he's just a fan of Guy Cove. Let him walk away. And my mom's like, no, no, no, I'll take a picture of you guys. What's your name? What's your name? John, give him your email. Like, wait, mom, mom, stop.

[01:22:31] Dude, so it's fun to do that once to see what happened to Cole. I, you know, I was looking here. I found the production notes from when this movie was coming out that they would

[01:22:41] send a press to consult and there's the whole sort of write up about the cast, right, where they give a couple graphs to each cast member. And most of the people in this movie are like fresh stars or this is their

[01:22:52] breakout thing, right? Or you know them, but you don't know them as actors. Right. So it's like three paragraphs where they're trying to like make it sound like they've done shit before, where like this is Eva Mendes' big year,

[01:23:05] where she sort of breaks out, where she has like this and out of time and stuck on you and is like suddenly in a lot of movies training day. She has the one scene like two years before that. And that's what sort of puts her on the map.

[01:23:17] But so they're like sort of saying like Eva Mendes is like one of the hottest new actresses. She has five movies coming out like everyone. They're sort of saying that about like Tyrese has been on

[01:23:26] TV a lot. He's just now one of the most exciting new leading men. And then you go to Cole Hauser and it's like Cole Hauser has recently signed on to do Mel Gibson's paparazzi. He was recently seen Anton Foucault's Tears of the Sun, right? True.

[01:23:43] He's playing the boyfriend of Robin Wright, Penn and White Oleander. So you're like, OK, that's sort of where his career was at all these movies that don't really connect, right? OK. And then you look at the graph and then it says his additional

[01:23:56] phone credits include Pitch Black, Steven Fears, the High Low Country, Gus Vance Goodwill Hunting, John Singleton's Higher Learning, Adam Goldberg's Indy Scotch and Milt, Rob Mandell School Ties and Richard Linklater's Cold Hit Days of Confused. And you're like, wow, he was. He was a thing.

[01:24:10] Like he did have a good fucking resume at that point. But he never had a I feel like he didn't get enough meat in any of those. No, I mean, wonderful career. I would kill to have that career.

[01:24:21] But always the smaller but always like number eight on the calls. Always playing like supporting asshole. Like that was his zone. That was his zone. You know, he had actually gotten an indie spirit supporting actor. I'm sure for Tigerland, which he's excellent in the movie that was most

[01:24:38] best known as Colin Farrell's breakout movie. And but it's for a drill sergeant performance. Sure. You know, and he's he nails it. You know, like it's a supporting asshole performance and he nails it. And it just was clear that's probably his, you know, that's his zone forever.

[01:24:56] That's what he's going to do forever. Like he got that show K-ville with Anthony Anderson that was like a New Orleans cop show post Katrina that was like so hyped and got canceled, you know, went nowhere like that. That's like a swing that missed.

[01:25:10] Paparazzi was like his one movie where he got to be the lead. And that movie doesn't exist. He is not in my opinion particularly good. He's in Jarhead too. Field of fire. Of course he is. Of course he is. Not sure we have three to be clear.

[01:25:28] He only did two. He only did two. You were going to say David, he's not particularly good casting. I don't think he's not the person I would pick to play an Argentinian drug lord in Miami. That's all. OK. Sure. I don't mean to be mean to Cole Hauser.

[01:25:41] I don't know why. I know he was in a movie that John Singleton directed. I assume that's just cast him to play a Nazi skinhead. But yeah, yeah, I mean he's just do you guys like Cole Hauser in this movie? I think he's fun.

[01:25:57] I think they probably should have rewritten the character to not be Argentinian. Yeah, like, you know, I he's got OK scumbag energy, but I don't really buy him as the big man that my costum is trying to get. Yeah, exactly.

[01:26:15] Like, you know, he seems like the guy who will then get you the next guy. You know what I mean? If you're trying to flip up the ladder, he seems aggressively domestic. Yes, very international for a guy who to be chased by customs,

[01:26:31] the most like suburban American looking fucking guy in the movie is the customs is after this Miami based whatever he is. I think he is successful in projecting a very Miami grotiness. But it is he's good at the dirtbag. Yes, right. Yeah, it is interesting for how much

[01:26:52] Cole Hauser's thing was being kind of an agro asshole, right? And getting nominated for playing a drill sergeant that he feels pretty low energy in this movie. And that feels like a choice that he's doing to underplay shit, which is maybe not the right choice for this movie.

[01:27:09] He's playing it too cool for sure. Yeah, him and Brian, which is saying a lot for this movie. Yes, yes. Obviously he has the big torture scene, like that's his kind of really nasty scene where he puts the rat on my Mark Boone Jr. in the bucket.

[01:27:26] Oh shit, yeah. But that's kind of more he and he like yells and he says like the movies one fuck there right like so, you know, he's like a little more dialed up there. But the rat is kind of I don't know. David, Death by Rat.

[01:27:39] No, the rat is kind of the scariest thing in that scene. Like Cole Hauser is like maybe number two. He doesn't get any other moments where he's like a badass. No, no. And it's like that cuts the cigar. You know, that's his whole thing about the fucking cutter.

[01:27:54] He loves that cigar cutter. But that's the moment where it's like, OK, that dynamics interesting where you're sort of playing the like low level fast and furious version of a Bond villain, right? Where it's like, here's my horrible

[01:28:07] contraption that's going to torture you and he can stand there quietly and calmly and monologue about like the pain they're about to experience. That works when he's just standing outside of his villa and he's monologuing

[01:28:20] with that same quiet energy, you want someone to be like fucking slicing up the ham a little bit more, I will say in quarantine, I tried to watch all the Vin Diesel movies I'd never seen before.

[01:28:32] And one of Vin Diesel's least existent movies is a man apart with F. Gary Gray, which was a movie I think he shot after Fast and Furious. But before it came out and then they like delayed it to try to make it a bigger

[01:28:45] hit off of the fact that he had popped and it's like a nothing fucking undercover cop movie. But Timothy Olyphant oddly plays the Cole Hauser Esk character in that movie's L.A. to Vin Diesel's Vin Diesel. And I just watching this think about how much fun

[01:29:08] Olyphant is having in that role in that movie. And it's like there's no scenario in which Timothy Olyphant having passed on playing Dominic Toretto is going to agree to play the villain in the sequel. Right, right.

[01:29:22] But you want someone with a little bit of that humor, I think. Yeah, he doesn't have any sense of humor. That's a good right. That's a good call. Yeah, putting him in good company with the rest of the movie.

[01:29:32] But like maybe you need one person who has a sense of humor to be in the movie. Right. Well, that's a fit. So obviously Paul Walker is no cut up. You know, I'm never going to turn to Paul Walker for laughs as much as we

[01:29:46] said, like he is funny situationally like it's something like pleasant. Phil, like he could do that. But so Roman obviously should be the comic relief. And there are moments like it, you know, the ejector seat, like there's stuff.

[01:30:00] But he is also kind of like trying to do of indeed like he's trying to also be a bad this is the problem. Roman sort of has to be both parts of the buddy dynamic. Tyrese is so much more dynamic in this movie.

[01:30:13] The Walker is that he simultaneously has to be the funny guy and the scary guy. Well, somebody has to be somebody because if you're looking across at your scene partner, Paul Walker and he's like, I don't know, man. You're like, OK, all right.

[01:30:28] Yeah, I guess I'll carry this one for us. And this this movie doesn't have the fast and furious, you know, tension of he's undercover. Will he get found out any of that stuff? Right. Yeah, sure. They're undercover with Cole Hauser. But like there's not any tension to that.

[01:30:44] No. That there's that there's not really any tension to are they going to get the bad guys? No. What that, you know, like when it's like, oh, these, you know, his two heavies were told to kill you. I'm not afraid of those two heavy guys.

[01:30:58] Like, you know, like they're not the henchmen and Rike and Roberto, like, you know, they're not going to kill Paul Walker. No, as a matter of fact, you can tell Eva Mendes at that point, like,

[01:31:06] hey, you could have texted this to me because you're going to get us killed by standing here right now. Oh, and Verone outside you and he doesn't see you climbing on the roof of the boat. I love I love Eva Mendes as an actress.

[01:31:18] She's got and she shares a birthday with my daughter. Oh, no, she shared a birth. She shared a due date with my daughter. That's what it is. Oh. But she's got nothing to do in this. Like, you know, she's pretty short changed by this.

[01:31:31] I mean, she's another Paul Walker, which it's like you don't want another person on the inside. Fourth undercover person undercover person in the last two movies. Yeah. Why isn't she just doing all of it? It's true. It's a fair question.

[01:31:44] Absolutely. Because his whole thing is like this guy is like a fucking dork. He's going to stick out like a sore thumb in these circles I run and let me get my guy. And then once he brings his guy in there, like, by the way, that girl

[01:31:55] that you were flirting with at the race earlier, she's on the inside as well. She she's clearly pulling it off. He didn't sniff her out. Right. That's that's all true. She's deep embedded. She's like running missions for the guy basically. Maybe she doesn't have her driver's license.

[01:32:11] That would be funny if that's what it was revealed to be. A woman who is undercover and being accused constantly of fucking the crime boss. Like, we know you're in love with him. It's like, what? That's like in fast one fucking.

[01:32:26] What's his name? Blinken is screaming at fucking. I know you're fucking Toretto. I know it, Brian. You suck it off. Dominic Toretto at the garage late a night after a couple of coronas. It's like, what? Why is this your jump to for Eva Mendez?

[01:32:40] She's been under for a year. Get her out. We can't. Well, then it's your fault. Like she's if she's doing the myth, you guys are the bad fucking. She must have fallen for him. This guy is irresistible. Him. I think she can resist Cole Hauser.

[01:32:56] She can't resist Brian, though, baby. She loves his bracelet at the bar when she start. She's touching him up. I'm like, what is she doing? She's fake dating a fucking super villain. You're right, though, David, that it's like the first movie has

[01:33:10] three kind of successfully bottled tension dynamics in. Right. There's a lot of good, intertwined personal and plot tensions. Brewster and Walker undeniably have chemistry in a way that Mendez and Walker do not. So your and their courtship is so much more fleshed out.

[01:33:31] The movie starts with him being there at the fucking shop, getting a tune to melt for the eighth consecutive day because he's got a crush on this lady. Like it feels like a real thing.

[01:33:41] So when he's flirting with the of Mendez and this, it's just kind of like, OK, so she's the new the new lady, you know, like you're kind of aware in the same way that when Roman enters, you're like, so he's the new Dom.

[01:33:53] You're like, I've seen him have more interest in chemistry with two other people in these roles and also with the added tension of he's trying to maintain a cover for these people. His feelings and respect for them are real. But they run contrary to his job obligations.

[01:34:12] And this movie, he's on the level with everybody and they just kind of don't like him. Yeah, he's kind of like a shitty employee. Like they're like a necessary evil. Like, I guess we'll work with Brian, the fucking car guy again.

[01:34:25] Like everyone just kind of is like, I don't know if I really trust this guy. But he's not lying to them. They're just like, I don't know. He just seems kind of dodgy. Dude, you breaking down Eva Mendez and Brian's relationship in this movie

[01:34:36] makes me side with Roman. He's like, bro, what the fuck? You're trying to fuck this chick like immediately. It'd be like, yeah, wait, now that I think about it, weren't you in love with another woman from X amount of days ago?

[01:34:49] Like, right, a great romance with Mia a couple years ago. Now you're like, just see a smoke show at the fucking finish line. And you're like, I want to met. Oh, she's an undercover cop living a fucking dangerous cover.

[01:35:02] Well, I'm going to still try to hook up with her. I've got it. Why? Why? It's one of those things, though, where it's just like Vin and Lynn are undeniably just kind of geniuses for having the vision of like how much of ampersand is about

[01:35:18] Brian and Mia being together again, like after he left her. And you're like, fuck, I didn't realize that like Brian O'Connor and Mia Toretto have the charge of Indiana Jones and Mary and Ravenwood in this franchise that it feels like, you know, she's this is fucking like

[01:35:38] Alice in duty, you know, even Mendes, you're just kind of like whatever. That was the one true love of the character was Mia. Right. You're great. You know, we all like you, but right, you're not going to stick around.

[01:35:51] It's all the all the reason to bring her back, give her something to do and absolutely 14. Absolutely. I want to see her playing off of fucking Roman. I just think there's stuff to be mind from her and Roman together since they have a history. But.

[01:36:06] Romans intro in this is cool. Like he much like the movie is never cooler than its opening race sequence. Roman is never more compelling as a character in this movie than his introduction. Yeah, just like fuck, this is a different type of character.

[01:36:22] He's at a fucking like motor rally derby. Right. Demolition Derby. He's got an ankle bracelet, so he lives in a fucking RV in like the back. He hates Brian. He's like fucking clocking him the second he gets the chance. He thinks Brian betrayed him.

[01:36:38] Yeah, I didn't remember that they have a history before the Fast and the Furious movies until this rewatch of this where I was like, oh, that's human Romans relationship, which now makes it make way more sense in later movies

[01:36:51] because they are tighter than him and Toretto in a weird way. And Brian and Toretto is right. And it's funny that now that Brian is out of the picture, the Toretto and Tyrese, a Toretto and Roman don't like connect over like

[01:37:07] they're still it's still the same dynamic they have where like shut up, you crazy. It's like, wait, we we've been doing this for way too long to be ball busting Roman anymore. He's the other thing is an F9 just doubles down on this.

[01:37:21] But at this point, Roman is like a the third lead of the franchise. Right. Yeah, which is why the billing on F9, I believe is diesel. Rodriguez Gibson, right? So essentially like diesel is Clooney and Rodriguez is pit and Gibson has become

[01:37:39] Damon, right in this Ocean's Eleven and and they do fit those character types. Like that's essentially how they function within the team as well. But then he doesn't really have any relationship to Letty and Dom, who are the mother and the father of the team.

[01:37:55] So his his role now is essentially a everyone telling him to shut up, right? But be more than anything that he's the third wheel to Tej and Ramsey. Right. Yeah, because Tej is kind of his straight man, even though in this

[01:38:11] movie, he and Tej don't really have any dynamic. Right. It's a wonder that they sort this all out over the course. I mean, you get over 20 hours of final edited footage to piece together a story. You should have enough time to reconnect some characters.

[01:38:30] But it really is a testament that when you unpack how they all know each other, you're like, why does this matter? Why would anyone why would Romans still be in the crew? Yes. Why would anyone once you have like 10 billion dollars ever do another mission?

[01:38:44] Especially when they're just like you're looking at the best team in the world and you're like Romans kind of defining characteristic is that he is overwhelmed by what's happening. Well, Roman, what is Romans technical? What is he bringing to the team?

[01:38:58] Like when they bring him back in fast five, what is it that he's a fast talker that they essentially say he's a smooth operator. We're going to need guys who could blow doors down. We're going to right if he Dungeons and Dragons, he's a bard. He's the charmer.

[01:39:13] He is the face of their A team. Yeah, but he doesn't even play that role. He gets like two times to do that in like six movies. He does the thing that he's reintroduced. We're going to need a guy.

[01:39:27] It's like we need a guy who can get anywhere and it's like, OK, that's one for it. We need to and a fast talker. And then we cut to Roman and you're like, oh, shit, we're going to get some fast talking.

[01:39:36] And the one time he does it in like six or seven, he fucking blows it. He always blows it. He's always bad at that. He always is immediately like throwing phones at people. Yeah, because they have to make him bad at it narratively.

[01:39:50] Yes, because Tyrese is not charming enough in real life to convey I'm the charming guy in this movie. Well, and what he's most charismatic at doing is playing kind of a goofball. Yeah, it's good at being kind of scared and in over his head in these movies.

[01:40:07] I want to make it clear. I love Roman. I like what he's become in the franchise. I like the performance that Tyrese gives now. It's just so fucking bizarre trying to like correlate that to who this guy is in this movie. Right, right.

[01:40:22] I don't even think he's bad in this movie. I think he's doing. No, I think he's good in it. You know, he's doing kind of he's doing a good leading man shit. Yeah, with a pretty thin character and a pretty thin script.

[01:40:34] And this movie kind of as we're all basically acknowledging it. Like kicks off really well. And, you know, the last act is kind of like, OK, let's let's wrap it up. Like there's no tension. They just got to get the bad guys.

[01:40:45] I think he's good, but I did too. He's not and he's good enough that you're like, yeah, make this guy the second adult human in a Transformers movie. Right. You're not like, get this guy to the top of the A-list.

[01:41:00] You know, you know, it's not that that level of a busting. Whereas a Vin Diesel in Fast and Furious one. You are like that. You're like, OK, what can we do with this guy? Put this guy in a Sydney Lumet movie ASAP.

[01:41:13] Oh, but you look at Tyrese's movie career after this and he does like Flight of the Phoenix, Four Brothers, Annapolis. Those are all movies where he's like number two, right? Wastey. Also, Jordanna Brewster is in Annapolis. I've never seen it.

[01:41:29] You guys mentioned it. I looked it up and it's Lynn. Oh, fuck. That's so funny. I've never I've never seen it either. I've never seen it either. All right. Well, I'm watching one of those like post Spider-Man James Franco movies that was like completely anonymous along with Flyboys,

[01:41:44] right? And was there another one? I feel like he just like did a bunch of shit right after Spider-Man that was like, you know, whatever that was the big one. I think of you. Franco is one of those guys that's like, oh, yeah, I like him in movies.

[01:41:56] And then you're like, look at his name to me. It's like, I haven't seen 80 percent of these. Like how many fuck the guy? Yeah, the guy works. The other one is Tristan and his old. Yes. Oh, right. Three big like movies that nobody watched in a row.

[01:42:08] If I can add on to what you said, Gabriel, you go, I haven't seen 90 percent of these and B, you go, actually, I hated that movie. Yeah, like you realize that you dislike the films and his performances in most of his work.

[01:42:23] They're just the rare exceptions where he like shines. I can see. Yeah. Like pineapple express. You're like, oh, OK, yeah, this guy's fucking mega talent right where he's not sleepwalking. Right. Yeah, it's he's not focusing more energy on being a creep offset.

[01:42:38] But yes, Tyrese and then even after he's in that zone where it's like he does the three Transformers movies, he does death race, you know, like all these things were there. Like, yeah, Tyrese could be like the number two guy.

[01:42:50] He can be like the sidekick or the rival. And now now he's comic relief. Yeah, that's it's crazy that they have input like a big comic actor in the movies yet. And I mean, I know that's because every six months,

[01:43:05] one of them is saying something insane on a podcast and unable to work. But like put fucking Kevin Hart in this movie. Like why would like? Well, I mean, Gaby, you forgot, of course, Kevin Hart's breakout role

[01:43:18] in Hobbs and Shaw as a flight attendant who is very impressed with the rock. Oh, right. Oh, God, I wish I wish they went back to that well in the credits and stuff. There's more of it. There's nothing good. There's nothing I really like in Hobbs and Shaw,

[01:43:33] but there's nothing worse than those celebrity cameos where as you say, Griffin, it's not just that they're there, but they're like, man, you're the coolest Dwayne Johnson. Like, you know, like they're there to be like, love you. Both Kevin Hart and Ryan Reynolds

[01:43:48] each get two scenes where they're just like you're like the most oppressive guy in the world. Right? You're like you rule. You're huge. I want to be you. Do you have like a I don't know, tequila I could buy or anything.

[01:44:02] Is there like a big comic actor that would be big enough but not too big that could be added to fast? Look, here's here's the honest answer. Here's the honest answer. The person who feels like you would be a perfect fit for this franchise is Lowell Rowell.

[01:44:16] Yes. Oh, perfect call. You know what? You know what? But here's the thing. It can't happen because Tyrese would probably be like, excuse me, that I am I am the comic relief of the Fast and Furious. You can't take that from me now.

[01:44:30] That's the. And also, I don't. And I think Vin wouldn't want someone who's actually good at comedy to be the comedy relief in the movie because then that person might excel at what they do. And and Vin is, I think, broken in a competitive way

[01:44:47] where it would kill him if someone was like, I think he likes that Tyrese only lands 60 percent of his jokes. He doesn't want him to be too good in his movie. Yes, it's going to make a billion dollars anyway.

[01:44:59] So I'd rather not be outshined at any moment by Tyrese. I'll asterisk this by saying I think F9 is maybe the most comedically successful Roman movie. Oh, shit. And I do feel like average, like the joke writing is a little better on F9 than it usually is.

[01:45:20] Like, it feels like there's actual joke construction as opposed to like, what's the kind of one liner a character would say in an action movie? But I do think you're right about that. Like, I don't think he wants someone coming in who's going to improvise

[01:45:36] and start scoring like three pointers in every scene. Yes. And just like steal the movie being hilarious. Yeah, he can't have Bob. Babu Frick was in talks for F9. And then was like, I can't have Babu Frick in here. That guy's a fucking legend.

[01:45:57] But I do want to note, Deb did not know this, Tyrese Gibson is in Morbius. He signed a free picture deal to play Simon Stroud, the FBI agent, hunting Morbius and apparently he has a high tech weapons grade arm. So that's cool.

[01:46:15] He's he's like the guy chasing Morbius, right? He is the guy who's got to get Morbius. But but his character is someone in the comics. I want to say his character. Yeah, he yes. No, I don't. And he does Simon Stroud.

[01:46:29] I think he's just the guy who hunts Morbius. I don't think he's very cool. No, he's in the Morbius. But yeah, but obviously they're turning him into it. Like they're making everybody a carrot. Like Agent Carter, like, you know, it's like who's appeared in something.

[01:46:45] It's like add them to this fucking billion dollar multimedia series. I went to Simon Stroud's Marvel wiki page and the subheadings are Hunt for the Man Wolf, Hunt for Morbius, teaming up with Morbius. So oh, no, no, no, no. Switch sides.

[01:47:03] Yeah, but more feels like him being like, I don't know, I should be in other movies, right? Like, shouldn't I like I'm a valuable famous person. Shouldn't I do some of this stuff? Right. Well, all that I'm saying about Tyrese,

[01:47:15] like he doesn't blow me away in these movies, but he's better than 75 percent of like blockbuster stars. It's like, absolutely. Put him in fucking anything, you know, like I don't think he could do this shit like Berndthal is doing in a movie or something like that.

[01:47:29] But he could do anything less serious than that. Tyrese could just fucking put any blockbuster. John, we both just watched the Angelina Jolie fire watch movie, which I refuse to say the name of because I always forget. To those who want me dead or whatever it's

[01:47:43] I hate what I'm called titles. I never remember too long, too long. Yeah. But Berndthal as as he does in fucking Wind River is he does in all Taylor Sheridan movies, I guess, just killing his supporting role, just doing a great just doing exactly what's expected of him.

[01:47:59] I fucking love the Angelina Jolie movie. And I loved Wind River, too. Too straight up just like 90s movies where even like Wind River even has the sort of like white guy who's more Native American than other people. Like, yeah, that is my issue with Wind River. Yes.

[01:48:17] Wind River had some issues. Those who wish we did I had a pretty good time with. I didn't really have a lot of complaints. I didn't have any complaints. I straight up 90s movie like great ensemble, insane job and then an insane

[01:48:31] storyline that has nothing to do with the job thrown on top of like just a movie about a smoke jumpers cool enough. Ask how we long. But then it's like now also murderers and villains just being pure villains. That's what's so 90s about it, I feel like, too.

[01:48:48] There's no like gray area where they're like, well, they're trying to do something for society. No, they're just he literally starts a forest fire. Like you know, they're bad because they have guns. Yeah, they're guys with machine guns who will shoot the good guys. That's their only character.

[01:49:05] OK, so to bring things full circle, though, like you were talking get risk about how watching this movie being like, man, we didn't know how fucking good we had it. Like the early 2000s vestiges of the 90s big dumb action movie.

[01:49:16] Right. And even though this isn't a perfect movie, watching it today, it gives you that nostalgic jolt. Like it is wild now knowing what the Fast and Furious franchise has become that like the big fucking money trailer shot stunt at the end of this movie is

[01:49:32] they have to land a car on a boat. Yeah, and that's nothing to what the crew will get out there. But it's fucking the beginning of it. The boat right? It's fun. Yeah. It's fun. But like this movie cost seventy six million dollars, right?

[01:49:47] Which is like a huge punch up from the first movie costing like twenty five or something. And like this used to be an oversized big stupid action movie. Yes, yes. That was a seventy six million dollar movie where one vehicle lands on one other vehicle one time. Right.

[01:50:08] And the problem is then when when your stupid action movie becomes three hundred million dollars and I will say I think the Fast and Furious franchise is largely the exception to this. Like it is the one franchise that has grown to that size that still works

[01:50:20] for me. But like now that's the only sphere in which this type of movie can exist is that budget level. It has to be that huge and global. Then you get to a point where it's like, well, then how do you make a twenty

[01:50:33] million dollar Taylor Sheridan firefighter movie? Yeah, you know, it like feels like anomalous because you're like, well, the Gulf is too wide there. That movie should cost seventy six million dollars, you know. Right. Like people don't know what to do with that movie being that

[01:50:48] size and being that sort of like modest in its ambition. Yeah, and then don't even start talking about comedies like. Oh, yeah. Then you're like, bring back the middle class of American society and films please. Yeah, it's just I don't know.

[01:51:06] It's just like like 2003 is a is a big ass summer. You know, like you have the Matrix reloaded coming out. You have finding Nemo. You have one of the Lord of the Rings. You're just spoiling the box office game right now. Come on, come on.

[01:51:21] Yes, yes, 2003 big summer. Yeah, it's just and this was like one of the big sequels. But still it's like seventy six million dollars. Yeah. Yeah. And as you say, the climax is, you know, they jump a car in a boat

[01:51:36] and there's an ejector seat and there's no Star Lord. No, no one opens a portal in the sky and there's not even the right. The fast, the later Fast and Furious stuff where it's like, oh my god,

[01:51:46] they have a tank and a submarine and we have to jump. But, you know, eight people from a skyscraper to another skyscraper. You know, they don't they're not pulling any, you know, nonsense like that.

[01:51:58] No, no, I do think like Singleton maintains a lot of energy in this movie. It is kind of like just pleasant to watch a bright summer Miami movie. Yes, the first movie is so much like dingy, dark LA back streets. Right.

[01:52:18] There's something cool just about the change of color palette. The time we're recording this, the Eternals trailer just came out this week. Now, the air nets talking about the muddiness and the murkiness of Marvel movies and how washed out. Everything is the lack of colors.

[01:52:30] And this movie, like even when you get out of that opening race sequence, it's still like, man, like the sky is so blue in this movie. Like the trees are so green. Tessius Mechanics Shop is like walking into like Discovery Zone. Yeah, everything is like bright, blocked color.

[01:52:46] Fucking everything looks great in this movie. And it's got like camera movements and wide shots. It's not like all done in like claustrophobic coverage. Yeah, like even the dialogue scenes, like have a sense of like scale and scope and energy to them.

[01:53:02] I mean, you'll have things like, you know, the Singleton touches. But there's the sequence, I guess, when they're trying out the new cars. I think it is. I don't remember if it's that or when it's if it's when Cole Hauser has them,

[01:53:14] like do the trial run for them. But that sequence where they like run through the middle of like the town and there's the dude crossing the street. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about? Yes. And you're like watching the people on the porch,

[01:53:26] watching the cars go by and you're sort of like regrounding the community in which they're intercepting. Like that stuff is fun. The movie just kind of like becomes a bummer when it has to get back to the plot because it's such a fucking generic like procedural cop episode.

[01:53:44] It's just paint by numbers. That's the thing that you could juice it up a little bit more and it would be better and instead it's like, does James Riemar want to pull the plug? No. Yeah.

[01:53:54] OK. And on with the next scene, you know, like there's just nothing there. Like they get in each other's face a little bit. Like Riemar is mad that Tyrese shoots at them in that. But like but then it's like papered over immediately. Then it's like, well, whatever.

[01:54:08] The stakes ostensibly are, you know, will Tyrese and Paul Walker mend their relationship? Right. Which I feel like they do and they don't too quickly. Like after the first fight, then it sort of becomes like every other scene they're getting along well or they're a little testy.

[01:54:25] It doesn't feel like there's an arc of him gradually winning his trust again. And you definitely should have more bromance. I can't believe. Absolutely. There's not a moment where there's not a moment where one of them

[01:54:36] or the other does something like, I mean, I guess we do have Roman showing up and saving Paul Walker out of his fist fight. But there definitely could have been a couple of moments where you think he's

[01:54:48] going to turn on Roman or rat Roman at like some kind of like give us some sort of fucking relationship drama. Let's see. I like we had that with Toretto and Brian. And like you're obviously trying to make it again. It's like add a little drums. Yeah.

[01:55:04] I do find it interesting. I remember when this movie came out, so much of the dialogue was about like this is the most homo erotic like guys movie since Top Gun. And Singleton interviews talked about what influence Top Gun was for him on this.

[01:55:21] And people were like and Tyrese is so jacked and there's so much. His body is amazing. When he when he fucking breaks that window, I was like, who? Like he just randomly takes a shirt off, wraps around his hand and blast that.

[01:55:34] I like I like that because then Paul Walker is like, hey, you could just open the door Paul Walker style. Yeah. This is how I open car doors. I watch these movies over and over again and I don't know how he does it.

[01:55:46] But no one has ever worn a blank t-shirt as well as Paul Walker does. Yes. Any time Paul Walker puts on a t-shirt with nothing on him, like fuck, why does that look so good? Where's the hell out of it? The same way that he drives these little

[01:56:01] like Toyotas and these little bits of fishies, tiny little cars. And he does make them kind of cool, like the little roadster things he got. You know, like they're there. That's a thing like he does not give a good acting performance in this movie,

[01:56:13] but he undeniably works as a movie star. Like it's just a compelling guy to watch. Yeah, you don't. He makes honestly he doesn't need to act in these no. And he like and he doesn't. And but the movie is still right. And he's still value added.

[01:56:27] Yes, he's got a certain integrity, but it is like the balance of the thing. You know where it's like you feel it after Walker dies in real life that like there's a piece that they cannot recapture of the Yang Yang of Brian and Dom.

[01:56:46] You know, and like I do think F9 is helped by adding Mia back into the equation. But there's something just about those two guys together that was just like magical and Brian on his own or Brian running lead with a guy who's like kind of beholden to him.

[01:57:04] I mean, that's another thing is that the first movie is so much Brian trying to impress Dom, it really feels like he has a friend crush on this guy. You know, and this one it's like Brian trying to keep Roman in line, but also hoping Roman forgives him.

[01:57:19] I do think the big scene where Roman sort of says like, hey, I watched that first movie, I heard you let the other guy get away. I think that seems played pretty well,

[01:57:30] but it also is a scene that kind of breaks the reality of the movie because it's like you heard about that. What do you mean? What the papers? Like what the hell? You were in jail and then you were working at a demolition derby and someone

[01:57:43] told you, hey, you know, that guy who was your friend, who was a cop who didn't rat you out, but you always thought he did rat you out and you've held it against him just because you feel like he picked a side.

[01:57:52] Even though you now conclusively know that it wasn't his fault, he let another guy go. Who would relay that to him? It's these are all fair questions. Look, the world of too fast, too furious is complicated.

[01:58:10] I was going to say, though, that I feel like there was so much dialogue about this movie being homoerotic and sort of the tension between the two of them and the weird like energy of Romans seeming jealous of when Brian is spending time with Eva Mendez.

[01:58:25] And now watching the movie today, it just doesn't even register, I think. Like I movies very chill on that front. Right. And I feel like the past of yours movies have become about men look each other in the eyes and be

[01:58:39] like, I love you, I would die for you. Yeah. And also being gigantic and shirtless. Right. You know, just these crazy like statues come to life. Now this just this movie just feels very grounded and tactile, which is a ludicrous thing to say about it.

[01:58:53] Yes. And it's probably just an example of how every single movie now is just freaking chocolate frosted bombs that we just like, you know, like, you know, it's like forced into our mouths as we watch them. We're like, I love this. I feel insane.

[01:59:08] We leave the movie theater. We're like, ah, you know, that's just what blockbusters are now because too fast to furious feels pretty chill and pretty human and realistic. Yeah, pretty grounded. That's absurd. That's an absurd. Stylistically directed. Right. Which at the time everyone, you know,

[01:59:29] dinged it for being over directed. I chose to mention this movie is written by Michael Brandt and Derek Hass. Gary Scott Thompson, who is like the architect of the Fast and Furious franchise gets a story credit on it, but they have soul screenplay credit.

[01:59:43] They're the guys who, among other things, later go on to create the entire Dick Wolf Chicago franchise. They're the Chicago guys. Right. They get money from every Chicago. All of them. Yeah, they also did the three Tenty. They did three Tenty. They did the wanted.

[02:00:02] But like they also made they made a movie called Overdrive that looks like such a shitty, fast and furious rip off with Scott Eastwood, who later goes on to be replacement Paul Walker in a failed attempt at one movie.

[02:00:17] But but yes, this feels like the plot line from a Dick Wolf show stretched out over directed by like a guy who really wants to prove that he can make like a blockbuster film and two movie stars who want to prove

[02:00:30] themselves and it ends up sort of being a dead end for everybody. But it's charming in that try hardness now. But at the time, if you know, the vibe was a little more like, oh, God, everyone's trying too hard. Yeah. And you're not going to convince me guys.

[02:00:46] Trying too hard now matches with the later fast and furious movies, not because they're trying too hard, but because they become so huge that they're operating at the same level of kind of fever pitch. Yes. Weird movie.

[02:01:00] Paul Walker wears a West Coast choppers shirt in this and you're like, oh my God, the early 2000s, the fucking West Coast choppers reality show is so fucking big and he he's dressed like everyone in my every white kid in my

[02:01:16] high school dress like with like the long shorts, the like air walks. And like he is Amber Cromby. Like, like he like defined right? Like more than almost anyone else Paul Walker. We are playing the box office game, Griffin. Unless there's anything else.

[02:01:33] We were saying this over text. I do think we should say it on Mike a little bit. Sly Devon, sidebar, because she was a big part of the marketing campaign of this movie. She's all over the poster.

[02:01:43] She's not in it a lot, but she is just so striking and she also is charming in this. I think she's charming in this. I know obviously she was a model, you know, and that was how she, you know, she had been a model for years.

[02:01:57] She's a very striking model. So it's not like she's being cast for to do meaty stuff. And like the way she's used in this and in Debs and in Sin City, which was like that sort of brief Devon aoki boom in the mid 2000s. Yeah, right. Sin City.

[02:02:13] She's like silent badass. And this in Debs, she's like fun. She's funny. She's good. I enjoy her. She's good. And I looked her up. It looks like she just retired. Yeah. To like she had like a bunch of kids and she's like I'm a mom now.

[02:02:28] Her dad is Hiroki Aoki is the is the founder of Benihana. Rocky Aoki, who was an Olympic level. I mean, that's his nickname that he goes by now. Right. Olympic level wrestler. Yep. Yep. Who then founded Benihana.

[02:02:45] Her and her brother, DJ Devon Aoki are the heirs to the Benihana fortune. Of course, people who are wildly successful in life are also heirs. You're insane fortunes. She doesn't need to do anything, but then she also got a modeling fortune and movie

[02:03:00] fortune and then also like married a billionaire. I think this guy she married with kids is also insanely wealthy and successful. And they asked her to the Sin City sequel. She said no. Jamie Chung plays her part in the sequel. She hadn't done anything in like years.

[02:03:16] It felt like then they announced that she was going to be on season three of Arrow and then like Katana playing Katana. And then a week later, they were like, never mind. She's not doing it and they cast the woman from the Wolverine. Rila Fukushima. Yeah, the Wolverine.

[02:03:30] I like her. She's great. And that was the end. The last movie Devon Aoki was in was 2009. It's Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are undead. Oh, boy. I'm not even sure if we can count that one. Let's see. The last non-VOD movie she was in was War. Yeah.

[02:03:49] The Jet Lee Jason Statham. Marshall Arts Movie. And she was in DOA, right? Yep, Dead or Alive. I have not seen it. I have to admit. She's her husband or her partner, whatever. Bailey is the Bailey of Barnum and Bailey. Like that's where...

[02:04:06] Yeah, see, it's like two fucking... I mean, whatever, man. She travels in rarefied air. Yes. Oh, she's special. The other people wanted to know about her. Apparently she didn't have a driver's license. Yes. So she took lessons to be in this movie.

[02:04:21] This is like basically the first time she's ever driven a car is in too fast, too furious. That's how fancy she is. All right. So just parallel park. You did a great job in the parallel park. OK, now we're going to drive towards this drawbridge here.

[02:04:35] And if you will punch it, they're going to raise the bridge up. This is the last part of your driver's... The Nause button. Now. OK, now let's see how you use Nause on the highway. Oh, boy. If I have one strike against Singleton in this movie,

[02:04:53] it's he loves the sped up Nause footage. Like he took that from one and was like, I can bet you I could do some wild fucking hyperdrive shit. The thing where like the view outside their windows becomes like all smudged.

[02:05:05] Yeah, looks like they did a whip it basically. Yeah. I feel like do you think it's possible like the the producers are like, look, you can do whatever you want, but you better have three separate Nause sequences.

[02:05:18] Like, you know, we Nause tested off the charts for us where you better load this. Nause was like a big breakout in the first they were selling the Nause energy drinks and shit. Nitrogen that nitrogen, the element is a big fucking behind the scenes sponsor of three.

[02:05:35] Yes, I like they were worried about rehashing their image. Everyone thinks they're just inert gas. And it's like, no, we got to show them that you can go and oh, to and go into N2O and to oh, and go fucking ham.

[02:05:49] Can I read one thing quickly before we do the box office game, David? Yeah. Our friend, passing future gas, Bill Goh, Berry wrote a very good piece for Vulture when Singleton died in 2019. And it was his piece making the case for poetic justice and too fast,

[02:06:07] two furious, which he argued were the two sort of undersung movies in Singleton's filmography. This sort of like, look beyond boys at the hood. This guy actually made a lot of movies. And this is, I think, a good point.

[02:06:19] I just not even going to try to put it in my own words. I'm just gonna say exactly what Bill Goh said because he crystallized something that I never would have come to on my own. But I think he is very right about.

[02:06:29] He's talking about how too fast, too furious is the movie that even fast and furious fans don't really like. Right. And he says, but I've always had a soft spot for it, in part because beneath all of its pop gloss, too fast, too furious reveals

[02:06:41] something essential about Singleton's artistry. For all its sun drenched, candy-colored aesthetic, the film's world is steeped in mistrust. Every character has an axe to grind. Singleton takes the aggressive one note conflicts of the action genre and builds whole networks of resentment out of them.

[02:06:58] This lends the picture a weird authenticity, despite the general doping as of the plot. None of the actors feel like they're posturing. You really are waiting for every scene to break out in violence. This is a testament both to Singleton's vision and to his incredible

[02:07:12] facility with actors, he gets them all to commit. I think that is true and well said. Hell yeah, love that. Well, if Bill if Bill Goh happens to be listening, I'm also a die hard black hat fan and you made me rewatch it just talking about hell.

[02:07:26] Yeah. So I just to communicate via blank check to Bill Goh. Thank you for turning me on to the man and getting to read his writing. But also fellow black hatter over here. I tip of the black hat to Bill Goh.

[02:07:39] Well, and this movie made in its opening weekend, Griffin, I'm trying to do the math. Six black hats. Yeah. Yeah, did 50 million dollars. Huge, huge, big, huge opening weekend. Like this was movies did not open that big very often.

[02:07:56] No, I remember it being kind of a mind blowing number since June 6th, 2003, and it's knocking off one of the biggest hits of the year, Griffin, what's finding Nemo? Yeah. Right. I guess it already because I know this ice cold. Yeah, you know this.

[02:08:12] This is one of those periods that burn into my brain. But the other thing is I just remember vividly that everyone was like, well, The Matrix is the biggest movie of the year. It's impossible. Matrix is the most anticipated thing.

[02:08:23] The Matrix sequel is going to be like the fucking Phantom Menace. And then Nemo ended up being the highest grossing film. And obviously, well, we'll get it with number three, Griffin, is a comedy. Finding Nemo has made 140 million dollars in two weeks just after that. It's huge.

[02:08:40] Funny funny. Nemo was the highest grossing Pixar movie until animated film. And they feel like it's an animated film until Incredibles 2. Or I can't remember a toy story. It might be Incredibles. You were right. Yeah. Anyway, but you know, I remember it knocked off the Lion King.

[02:08:56] It was the biggest animated film ever. Number three, it's a comedy. No, Shrek 2, I'm stupid. I'm fucking idiot. Oh, yeah, Shrek 2. Yeah. Number three is a comedy. Yep. Movie star comedy. Huge hit. Number three is a huge hit. Colossal. Colossal. Oh, is it Bruce Almighty? Yeah. Yeah.

[02:09:15] That right. This is talking about how big the box office was, David. Yes. Matrix has its big opening in May. Finding Nemo opens to 70. Bruce Almighty opens to 70. Fast and Furious opens to 50. Like by the first week of June, you've had like five movies open over 50 million dollars.

[02:09:33] Jesus. This is just a classic box office game where it's just hit, hit, hit. This was like the last great American blockbuster summer. Number because number three is a movie that is not the kind of hit that these

[02:09:48] others were, but was sort of as little bit of a sleeper. A fun action caper movie, big ensemble. It's a director who eventually a fast and furious Italian job. Yeah, it sleeps its way to 100 million dollars. Exactly with Wahlberg and Norton and Charlize and most deaf.

[02:10:09] Well, Jason Statham. That's how good the summer of 2003 was that that Italian job was just simmering. People like I remember that came out and people were like, why did they remake the Italian job with like Americans? Like this stinks.

[02:10:22] And then the people saw it was kind of fun. Yeah. If it wasn't called the Italian job, it was just called like Italy heist. You'd be like, this movie was fucking cool. Like yeah, but because you have to compare it to like Michael Cain's performance,

[02:10:34] you're like, oh, I don't know. Yeah. But I like the Italian job remake for sure. Fun. It's a fun. Man, 2003 was my right before my senior. That summer was the summer before my senior year of college too. So I was like really coming into myself and loving movies.

[02:10:50] And I'm remembering this. I was a little beach life guard bartender a couple of nights a week. But this was a great. I saw a lot of these movies in the theater and three was a killer summer. Yeah, that's a let's keep going. Sorry, David. Oh no.

[02:11:05] Number five is Griffin Arnie Metsha Day. It's a movie everyone thought would be. Yeah, it's The Matrix Reloaded, which was a huge hit. Massive. So it was like a big R rated hit. Yeah. But I have not watched Reloaded or Revolutions.

[02:11:19] I've only seen them once both in the theater. John, how David is trying to end this episode and you've just baited him so hard. Well, this is that I I baited him on purpose because I'm kind of want to be talked into watching them. Well,

[02:11:38] this is the year, I would say, right with a with a Matrix for coming. This is the year to dip back into them. I you know, just text me while you're watching them and I can help or just come over, just come over.

[02:11:52] I'll do it and I'll give you some rants. Yeah. Griff, I just want to shout out number six is Daddy Daycare. I feel like I think you've seen many times. It was my sister's favorite movie for many years. I probably conservatively have seen it 25 times.

[02:12:05] I argue that movie is funny, but I don't know if it's just Stockholm. She's still campaigning for Nancy Meyers to remake it, right? Absolutely. You got number seven is X-Men 2. Another 2003 blockbuster. Another movie that opens like 70 million dollars. The best X-Men movie. Unquestionably, still. Yes, without a doubt.

[02:12:27] Talk about movie opening. Not even close. One of the best openings to a movie ever. That night crawler whiteout sequence is a great great opening. Fuckin' role. Talk about big hits directed by sex criminals. Number eight, you've got wrong number eight. Yes, yeah. Wrong turn. Wrong turn.

[02:12:43] Wrong turn. Eliza Dushku. Remember that one? Yes. They took a wrong turn. It's kind of like Cannibals or it's like a hillbilly, you know, sort of Hills Have Eyes thing. Is that the one that J.J. Abrams wrote? Is Joy Ride the one that he wrote?

[02:12:58] Joy Ride is the one. That's a good movie. Joy Ride's good. With Paul Walker, right? Paul Walker. There's a wrong turn coming out this year too. What are they? Is it eight? How many are there now? I think it's a remake.

[02:13:10] It seems like I never saw the original. It is. Yeah, that's crazy. Huh. Huh. Wow, weird. OK, yeah, like another Appalachian horror movie. OK, number nine is The In-Laws. Which one is that, Griff? Oh, that's the fucking remake of the great movie with Michael Douglas.

[02:13:31] Yes. So the original is. Albert Brooks. Right. Jesus. Yeah, the original is fucking Peter Falk and Alan Arkin and is like quietly one of the best American comedies ever made. And then they did a big budget remake with Michael Douglas and

[02:13:45] Albert Brooks, but also Candice Bergen and Ryan Reynolds. Buckets Bergen. Yeah, Ryan Reynolds is one of the yeah, there you go. Huge, huge bomb. And number 10 is one of the sleeper, huge sleeper hits of the year. Bend it like Beckham. Oh, yeah.

[02:13:59] It's like one of those crazy hung around at the box office for like months. Charming people type, you know, you know, like, you know, open to nothing and just kind of slowly built. 2003, look, I was 17 years old. It was a great time. Yeah.

[02:14:14] It was probably the best we ever had. I yeah, I don't know. I do think of that as like, was that the last time I was happy? Whale Rider is opening this week. I saw that and I remember seeing that in theaters. Yeah. Good movie. Yeah.

[02:14:28] No, there's a lot of shit going on in 2003. And you forget that like I just read that book Greatest Movie Year Ever about 1999 where like and like I'm like and you're just like, holy shit. Like you forget with time.

[02:14:43] And then when someone reminds you, like my favorite thing is like, you know what? Movie won the Oscar that year and you're like, oh, what were the end? When someone lists the other nominees, you're like, right? Oh my God, those all came out the same year.

[02:14:55] They're all distinct memories. Right. I love shit like this where you're like, oh my God, oh three was when I saw all these movies. That was a crazy. Like that's the thing with 2003 is that like it's not that it's like

[02:15:09] like 1999 in terms of like general quality of movies. But it feels like a humongous year for movie culture. There were so many big hits, but also like it was a year where there were so many indie breakouts to like you had so many things like Whale Rider and

[02:15:27] Beckham kind of coming out of nowhere and making like 20 million dollars and lingering for a while. The 2000s are just a good time. You know, that's 2003. Some other movies, Master and Commander, Kill Bill, Hulk by Angley. By my loss in translation. Shit, you know, City of God. Right.

[02:15:46] You know, there's a return of the King is the highest grossing film of the year and wins Best Picture and does the ultimate victory lap. It was just a school of rock. Hey, School of Rock 2003. 28 days later, something's got to give.

[02:16:01] Remember when there used to be like 30 million dollar star driven comedies for families that were also funny, that were like actually funny? Yeah. Now they're all date nights, game nights and tags. Three movies I would kill to be in.

[02:16:19] But those are like what I think of when I think of modern comedies now. And I'm just like, oh, everything's either a night or a tag. Tag is based on a true story. All right, we're done. We're done. But we're done.

[02:16:38] Will we do I guess we'll do Justin Lin someday? I don't know. I'm trying to think of like, will we ever do a well, we could do F. Gary Gray Griffey. We've had him on. We could be the March Madness.

[02:16:50] Yeah, it's not you know, yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I mean, Lynn, it's like, look, I obviously would love to do episodes in all the Lynn Fast and Furious movies. But thinking about this podcast, his filmography would be more interesting

[02:17:01] if he had made more non Fast and Furious movies. Right. Why would we do Justin Lin rather than just do all the Fast and Furious movies on Patreon is kind of the argument. Yeah, that makes more sense than a Justin Lin series.

[02:17:14] Right. What's his early what was his big like better tomorrow, which roles right? Then he does Annapolis, then he does Tokyo Drift. And then he's pretty much been on the Fast and Furious train other than Star Trek beyond and he does the finishing the game, which is kind

[02:17:30] of an interesting movie, which is his comedy about trying to finish a game of death after Bruce Lee dies. Oh, I never saw that. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, never saw that either. Yeah. Gavirs, thank you so much for for being here on the show.

[02:17:48] Always one of our favorite guests, but nice to finally be able to cross the streams and have you talk Fast and Furious on this show. Right. Please. I was I would have been ecstatic to be here for abduction, even more pump to be here for too fast.

[02:18:00] Well, and let's also say like this episode is now sort of a promise of the High and Mighty F nine episode. Hell yeah. Subscribe to Action Boys on Patreons. Yeah, if you have Patreon money, get on blank checks.

[02:18:15] But if you have like two Patreon money and you're like, I already listen to one podcast where dudes talk about movies for way too long. Yell about them. I got another one. And it's all it's even more narrow in that it's just classic action

[02:18:29] movies from the 70s, 80s and 90s. I don't know who it's for, but it definitely has some overlap with people who this podcast is for. So this is the one podcast I feel comfortable promoting Action Boys on where I'm like, you might actually like super extended movie conversations

[02:18:45] where we break it down scene by scene and take longer than the runtime of every movie, not a not a positive, but maybe for you. Catnip for listeners. And and to our listeners, I say thank you for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe.

[02:19:00] Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media. Thank you to Alex Barron and AJ McKeehan for editing assistance. I also want to thank lame like I'm referring to themes. I want to thank JJ Birch for research and Nick Laryanna. Yes.

[02:19:25] I want to tell people to go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit. Go to patreon.com slash blank check for blank check special features where we talk about franchising or doing commentaries on the Twilight movies

[02:19:38] and thus unifying the two Taylor Lautner threads on our two streams. You will summon him. He will hear. Yeah, that'll be the way it will work out by the time you reach that. What they call the Lautner Nexus. You'll just have summoned him at that point. Thrilling.

[02:19:53] We're not quite there yet. No, got time. No, we have four brothers to get to first. That's right. And then we'll get abducted. But yes, tune in for that next week, four brothers. And as always.

[02:20:12] I mean, it's not appropriate for this movie, but I'm going to say it. You can have any drink you want in this podcast, as long as it's Corona. Very good. No one drinks the Corona. And I know they're none.

[02:20:24] I know this is the one with zero Corona's, but I still think it's the right thing to say.