A Christmas Carol with Emily St. James

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check On the first day of Christmas my true love sent to me

[00:00:25] A podcast in a pod tree On the second day of Christmas my true love sent to me Two podcast doves and a podcast in a pod tree I did this to myself, I did On the third day of Christmas my true love sent to me

[00:00:47] Three podcasts, two podcast doves and a podcast in a pod tree This song doesn't have anything to do with a Christmas Carol, right? Just checking On the third day of Christmas my true love sent to me It's all Christmas Carol

[00:01:06] Podcast three, podcast two, podcast doves and a podcast in a pod tree I'm sorry, you turned calling birds into podcasts? That's it? There's so much more you can do in calling birds Miss my true love sent to me Five podcasts

[00:01:27] Four podcasts, three podcasts, two podcast doves and a podcast in a pod tree This is why you guys are in the lead for the Peabody this year, right? Like this is the reason? Yeah, there's no longer in our sights. We want the Peabody

[00:01:47] On the sixth day of Christmas my true love sent to me Six pods are casting five podcasts Oh boy Four podcasts, three podcasts, two podcast doves and a podcast in a pod tree

[00:02:08] Podcasts do win Peabody awards. I am looking at them. They have a whole category for it You should submit to the Peabodies and submit this episode On the seventh day of Christmas my true love sent to me Two Peabody

[00:02:26] Seven pods are casting six pods are casting five podcasts Four podcasts, three podcasts, two podcasts doves and a podcast in a pod tree Wow, the harmony is there. So we got to seven. We got to swans of swimming

[00:02:52] Which I believe you put as pods of casting, is that right? Correct. And no, we got to eight. Excuse me. We got to eight So maids and milking which you put as pods of casting, am I right?

[00:03:04] No, actually David, I'm sorry. That was a visit from the Ghost of Bits future I hadn't gone to it yet. Here it is. On the eighth day of Christmas My true love sent to me eight pods are casting seven pods are casting six pods Are casting five podcasts

[00:03:24] Four podcasts, three podcasts, two podcasts doves and a podcast in a pod tree Hello everybody and welcome to Ho Ho Ho Mary Blank Trek Good. Good. This is our, is that appropriate? Very good. I was going to say this is our last episode before Christmas but it is

[00:04:00] And it's two weeks before Christmas right? It's December 13th so but you know it's the season as they say Tis the season to be casting. Yeah. I mean you got to get flight in before Christmas. Like that's important. Flight will be our actual Christmas episode.

[00:04:16] We're landing the flight right before Christmas. Our plan for the time being Tentatively is to roll it. I should mention that. We're going to roll it. You've never seen flight. Is that a reference to flight?

[00:04:27] Yeah, I feel like we're going to roll it for a brief period of time was up there With the duly appointed federal marshals and we're going to get over on all these guys It's got to be the best we ever did. Am I wrong Emily?

[00:04:39] Like we're going to roll it was a pretty major trailer line for a little bit. Oh yeah, if you saw any movie in like 2012 you heard we're going to roll it. But the answer is David is mortified of planes and he probably covered his eyes

[00:04:53] Every time the trailer came up. Yeah, I mean I know that the plane is upside down or something. We're going to roll it. We're going to roll it. Right, right. And I know Goodman is involved and then they're in maybe in Congress or something

[00:05:08] There's some sort of hearing at some point. That's all I really know. Look you're going to see the movie very soon. It's the next episode we're recording obviously And I don't want to spoil anything for you but I just want to say

[00:05:21] The movie might finally answer whether or not John Goodman's character has sympathy for the devil I'm trying to be as oblique here as possible But the movie might provide an answer as to what and it might be pretty clear

[00:05:37] Yes, I'll go in with that now. I have no idea what you're talking about but that sounds great When I was here to talk about Alice in Wonderland we talked about planes a lot And flight is part of the planes expanded universe

[00:05:49] So we talked about the Pixar well not Pixar but the Disney tunes The Disney planes Planes fire it's planes then planes fire and rescue and then planes we're going to roll it a K.A. flight

[00:06:04] It was retitled flight in America in Europe it was released as planes colon we're going to roll it They should bring back planes and put something in it Look we can't talk about planes again wait a second if we already did a plane spit

[00:06:20] We got a flex our muscles we got to do something new here If they told me that Sully played a plane in planes 3 I would I would see it You'd go in Not only that I'd see it in theaters during COVID

[00:06:36] I would go to a public screening during COVID if they were like surprise third plane movie and Sully has one scene I just I just brought up airplanes so I could open the door just to crack and dangle a little sign that said Sully through the door

[00:06:55] And see if you took the bait and you performed marvelously thank you boys Yeah we're pretty easy marks I would say Yeah by this point people will have heard our cast away episode where Nia Dacosta in real time

[00:07:10] It tries to interrogate us on whether or not the Sully thing is a bit the way our Reddit has been trying to do for the last five years That movie is very good it is not a bit it's not a bit

[00:07:22] I swear to God it's a great movie she did she also goes in on you know Clint Eastwood's whole you know concrete and fluorescent lighting You know 2010s uvra but whatever Yeah absolutely not wrong Sully rules But this is a holiday episode of blank check a podcast about

[00:07:42] Photographies directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion projects they want And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes ho ho ho they bounce baby This is a mini series on the films of Robert Zemeckis

[00:08:00] The notorious Bobby Z And today we're talking about a Christmas movie A Christmas Carol the movie that forced him into early retirement as a mocap filmmaker

[00:08:13] Did he admit that did he say like okay I took it as far as it could go or what did he say like they just cost too much money and they stopped letting me do it

[00:08:24] David we're gonna get into it because I think there's an element here that you're forgetting but we will unpack it Our guest today Sure guest by popular demand and I should make it clear she is always a much demanded guest for turn appearances by our listeners

[00:08:37] But in this case as demanded by herself to come on to speak about this movie we in an early episode of this main series What the fuck are we gonna do for that episode we're gonna be so burnt out on these mocap things by that point

[00:08:49] Who wants to talk about that and right in the inbox An email that took many months for me to actually respond to Yes I thought I had offended someone I was like oh well it won't happen but you know

[00:09:05] No here's what's happened I've gotten to a point where I can no longer distinguish between things I've done and things I've thought about doing Yes fair true for all of us

[00:09:15] I lie in bed every night and I go have I not brushed my teeth or have I done it three times in the last ten minutes And I don't know and sometimes I get up and do it a fourth time and sometimes I don't do it at all

[00:09:26] Emily van der Waar the great from Vox from the National Futterwacken Championships of 2018 I won yeah I think that was your year though right Yeah mm-hmm yeah yeah thank you so much it's so good to be here I go ahead

[00:09:46] And self-proclaimed Christmas fanatic that's the key detail I want to throw out here as I open up a can of Christmas Budweiser It's a late night record it's a boring movie I felt like it was time to drink some Christmas Bud on Mike

[00:10:01] I got a Christmas green tea right here my friend Okay okay I got a Christmas Bud but Emily you're a big Christmas fan and you're a big Christmas Carol fan correct

[00:10:11] Yes yes I feel as though me appearing on a Christmas edition of Blank Check is like a prophecy somewhere Like somewhere in like a temple somewhere there's like a man who's like saying oh he saw this drop into his Spotify feed

[00:10:25] And he says oh prepare the Heralds because like he's just fucking ready for it But yeah I love this I love this story I love Christmas as David can attest going back many years

[00:10:35] So yeah I'm so happy to be here and so happy to be talking about one of the ugliest movies ever made This is the headline for me because we've watched two of these uglies three of these uglies in a row

[00:10:48] I'm gonna agree with what you're about to say I think I think I know what you're gonna say and I agree I don't know if I'm gonna say what you think I'm about to say My point is we've been bumping uglies three weeks in a row right

[00:11:01] Just straight uglies in this in this run You thought I was about to say this is the best looking of the three No Okay because Beowulf's the best looking of the three right

[00:11:12] I thought you were about to say this is the worst looking of the three and I agree to my astonishment I think Polar Express is the worst looking of the three but it is astonishing that this movie is so boring

[00:11:25] That that quality overrules how ugly looking it is Like we kind of like Beowulf are like but of course you have to admit this thing looks like garbage We hate Polar Express and of course it has to be admitted

[00:11:38] A huge part of that is that it looks like garbage And this I could talk for two hours about how boring it is before I really start unpacking how ugly it looks Yeah I think at least Polar Express is a train

[00:11:52] I think a train looks better in this because it's metal I think this is a world geared towards metal You know I think all of Zemeckis's mocap movies should have been about metal people and things And it's just when you bring skin into the game you're in trouble

[00:12:09] And that's why I will pick Polar Express over Christmas Carol both as a movie and as a thing to look at anyway I'll say this too I mean obviously Polar Express is working with earlier stages of technology

[00:12:23] It's at a disadvantage in that way but from a design standpoint Polar Express is a thousand percent more aesthetically pleasing than this movie And Polar Express is not an aesthetically pleasing movie This is true Emily I've known you for 20 years

[00:12:40] I don't know if you've done the math in your head but I've basically known you for 20 years This is true yes Do you remember what the Oscar season was when the two of you met on the message boards?

[00:12:53] You know probably the Return of the King season right Emily? Yeah it was Return of the King I came in and made a big splash with my winged migration signature and my message Yes we're all in on winged migration that's right

[00:13:12] It said FYC the Goose best supporting actor I remember that I was trying to make an impression and yeah And I was like David you're so cool and you're like I'm just some And I was like oh he's just some 15 year old kid That's it

[00:13:28] Wow, a cool 15 year old on an Oscar message board But Emily this is also a bore out that you have discovered a lot of our friends But people who have become incredible writers at different outlets across the land You had a real eye for talent you know

[00:13:49] Recognizing young people on message boards who had the passion and the skill set And like giving them their first jobs you know Franky falls into that category as well Yeah Yeah Pilots right yeah Sonia Saraya Sonia Emily Oshida you know these are people who are like tumblers

[00:14:07] And I just was like this is a good tumbler And at the time no like nobody was hiring women for these jobs And I so the AV club just had a whole bunch of women And it turned out I was a woman and then we had David

[00:14:20] So that was great And I now work at the Atlanta culture section which is Eight women and me and Spencer But also I mean if you if you hadn't extended opportunities to so many people This podcast would not exist Sure I wouldn't have met David No

[00:14:39] We wouldn't have had any guests Well who are what our guest pool have been This is true Have you been on Oscar watch lately? I know it has a new name now it's had like many names I haven't I haven't in a long time

[00:14:53] Until just and I'm sorry to start on this really arcane ship Whatever it is We have to We have to I watched the film Hillbilly Elegy I was provided with a screener I've seen it too Which is not a good movie and by this point it's come out

[00:15:14] And I imagine it's been mostly savaged by critics and whatever You know it's out there And I didn't review it but I did foolishly I will say Just sort of out of boredom put it at like the bottom of my 2020 list on Letterbox

[00:15:31] Just as like a joke or maybe not like bottom bottom but like Right at the bottom right Does that make you know you guys know what I'm talking about Yeah And Andy Scott Shout out to Andy Scott

[00:15:44] Who Emily knows my old roommate and another Oscar watcher emailed me And was like you have like lit a torch on the message on Oscar watch Whatever it's awards daily whatever it's called now And it has exploded like people are like David Sims put it up there

[00:16:03] This thing's gonna be a catastrophe and apparently there's Amy Adams stands And they're all freaking out So that's the update I got from the message boards But how long ago was that?

[00:16:14] I feel like the word has been out with read this thing being toxic for a little while now I mean whenever I saw it Like when would that have been let's see now I can look at my diary You know some mid-November right

[00:16:25] It wasn't like four years ago It's a bad movie You know what you know what it was all the way back in October Okay They gave it to me really early It's worse than a Christmas Carol No Billie Eiligy It's worse than a Christmas Carol there's no question

[00:16:42] It's working off way worse material to be fair I mean a Christmas Carol you're working off Dickens Well wait a second that's an interesting question Let's dig into this Which do we think is a better original text Charles Dickens' class of Christmas tale

[00:16:59] A story that has endured for centuries Lost a zero potency There's a reason we keep on returning to it But basically helped invent the ghost story Or JD VanSys Cheap hackery, the hillbilly elegy It's tight, it's tight I don't want to put my foot down for it either

[00:17:19] And then have this age poorly When do you think Semeckis is going to do the mocap hillbilly elegy? Because this is a story that's going to be told over and over and over again I think He needs to make it metal

[00:17:30] And he needs to make every character a terminator And then it'll work There's a terminator monologue Sounds good In which going close refers to good, bad and neutral terminators And there's no such thing as neutral terminators I don't know what she's talking about

[00:17:44] They're very sort of good bad They really are kind of an on off switch kind of thing Excuse me, there's good, bad and there's terminator 3 rise of the machines Where Arnold's terminator character has a slight malfunction And sometimes he turns bad briefly

[00:17:58] Well right, but he's not really neutral It's not like he's like I am a centrist No, neutral Neutral fundamentally doesn't exist I guess like the real Arnold Schwarzenegger Is something of a neutral at this point But let's not get into it The point I wanted to make is

[00:18:18] Emily, I have known you for 20 odd years And I've always known you as someone who loves Christmas That's like, from the beginning it's been Big part of your brand A love of Christmas We once cooked up a Santa Claus show together Wait, like a Santa Claus TV show?

[00:18:39] Yep Emily asked me to pitch Was it a sitcom or is it, you know It was a sitcom Yeah, like a weekly sitcom about Santa Claus I can remember the exact premise that you came up with Because it was very good

[00:18:57] You'll probably do it better than I did This is at the height of My Name Is Earl So David pointed to My Name Is Earl And said, we need a show like that Where there's a concrete goal

[00:19:09] So it was about Santa on the other 364 days of the year So it was 364 episodes Each one was a new day In a year of Santa between Christmas Eve And the show was called This is long before Keeping Up with the Kardashians

[00:19:24] It was called Keeping Up with the Clauses Wow, I remember that So David invented Keeping Up with the Kardashians The only other thing I remember is that Santa has a new wife Because Santa is immortal But I decided that his wives are not

[00:19:40] That he's like Javier Bardem and Mother Like they die and then he just gets a new one Right? Yes, this is true And so I was so, because I thought it would be funny Like a sitcom, it's like Santa would be like A fat guy with a beard

[00:19:54] And he would have this like improbably attractive You know 28 year old wife Played by like a young ingenue Who's now stuck on this sitcom But like, he'd still love her You know, it would be tender It's just that you would have the... That was funny

[00:20:10] It's funny that that was a trend for a little bit The like, here's the premise of our show According to Jim There's a hard and... No no, not that thing Of course, you're talking about my name is Earl David, that premise is evergreen

[00:20:23] We'll never get tired of that premise But my name is Earl Right, the show is literally like Crossing items off a list There's a built-in ending for it And the ending is only a scant 180 episodes away Like those premises where it was like

[00:20:39] Here's the... We have to end at this point And that point is nine seasons away I figured out, I'm actually going to figure it out again How long keeping up with the clauses would run And it's 16 and a half seasons So that's like how long you need

[00:20:53] To do keeping up with the clauses That thing will sell That thing will be in syndication forever You'll make millions That's me talking to ABC in 2005 or whatever Is there a talking reindeer? Oh, yeah, that's a great idea Yes, there has to be a talking reindeer

[00:21:11] About that gold-weight As Rudolph or as Frank Mutzher, I don't know I almost made David do his pit take I was so close He caught it, he swallowed really fast Remember how my name is Earl was a huge hit? And like the office was...

[00:21:29] It was like eating the office for breakfast On that Thursday block and then I guess people just kind of got sick of it I don't know what happened to my egg There's this super weird phenomenon Of single-camera sitcoms from the late 2000s Early 2010s where they debut huge

[00:21:44] They're big for 13 episodes And then people just inexplicably stop watching them New Girl is another example I was going to say New Girl is like the last one of those Where when it started I was like, oh, this is like the biggest comedy on television

[00:21:56] This is The New Friends And by the end of season one I was like, I guess it's now just a common niche thing But tell me how many seasons New Girl ran for? New Girl ran for seven Seven! My name is Earl only got four

[00:22:09] And apparently ended on a cliffhanger that was never resolved Yeah, because they promised Greg Garcia That he was going to be able to finish the story The way he wanted and then he was not allowed to finish the story The way he wanted so

[00:22:22] What is Greg Garcia doing now? Because he did, then he did Raising Hope Which I loved, that was a big thing Raising Hope, he did the guest book on TBS It's a very weird show I do not know what that is, but that's cool

[00:22:36] It's a comedy anthology series about the people who sign a guest book and a vacation property And each season is a new vacation property Here I am sitting on a fucking mountain of gold It was my Santa Claus sitcom

[00:22:50] And people are like, I don't know, let's do a show about guest books They're just looking around the room at the ski lodge And they're like, could we do a table sitcom? No, that's ridiculous, guest books? Guest books? We'll do guest books

[00:23:04] I forgot, Greg Garcia also did the Millers The CBS sitcom That ran for 34 episodes Will Arnett, Margo Martindale, Beau Bridges, J.B. Smooth, Gemma Mays, Nelson Franklin, Sean Hayes Yep, yep It was a big cast It was supposed to be the next big thing

[00:23:25] And it just didn't happen Greg Garcia Greg Garcia is like somebody who always has a show that seems like it's going to be huge for a little bit He's a pro Yeah, he's completely, yeah He did Yes Dear, I think Yes, he did, that was his thing

[00:23:39] And then like that was his home from Yes Dear But my name is Earl was like, look, I know I created Yes Dear, but this is my actual sensibility

[00:23:46] I remember there was such a press tour of him being like, but that's not the kind of show I grew up watching This is my actual interest And then made himself sort of like the more quirky guy

[00:23:57] I also feel like in my ten years of doing pilot season or whatever Almost every season there's a big Greg Garcia pilot at CBS That's like the cool one that then doesn't get picked up And several times he has the show that's really hyped up

[00:24:13] Everyone's fighting to get cast in It doesn't go and then they bring it back the next season and try it again And then it still doesn't go Yeah, and the premise is always like what if a middle schooler was a superhero but also a nurse

[00:24:27] And you're just like Oh Emily, I wanted to be in that one so badly Unsurprisingly Super Clyde Oh, I wanted to be in that one I have two more things to say about Greg Garcia and then we can talk about a Christmas Carol One Or we can not

[00:24:42] Apparently, or whatever You guys can talk about that Apparently, Greg Garcia in 2008, Alec Baldwin accused him of being a Scientologist I guess because Jason Lee is one Like I don't think he had anything more And Greg Garcia was like, I'm not a Scientologist

[00:24:58] Like he had to issue a statement He was like, I'm like a Catholic Two, he did the book to the musical Escape to Margaritaville Which was the Jimmy Buffett Duke Box musical That I don't think ever made it No, I guess it did

[00:25:13] It did make it to Broadway It ran up early It ran up early Yeah They, I believe they extended the run of Escape to Margaritaville in Los Angeles Which rarely happens here because you know, not a huge theater town But a big escape to Margaritaville town

[00:25:29] Big parrot head town Yeah I almost wonder if it was like built into the budget of Escape from Margaritaville That opening on Broadway was a loss leader just to get the prestige of a plate on Broadway

[00:25:42] Because it's like you have to imagine the ultimate life of that show is on cruise ships You know? Right Right Here's a line of questioning I want to get into, Emily Because we started digging into this a little bit on our Polar Express episode

[00:26:02] Where the Sims grew up Sons Christmas largely And in our contact episode we talked about like our relationships to faith and religion a lot And most of us grew up pretty a-religious I grew up with a sort of very perfunctory

[00:26:19] Judaism of my parents being like, I guess we should teach our children this stuff But they had completely abandoned that pretty much by the time my sister was around Right But you had a very religious upbringing

[00:26:32] And you've written a lot about your relationship to that as time has gone on And how it's changed and morphed and all of that And so I want to know sort of where Christmas fits into all of that

[00:26:43] How much value Christmas has for you is in tied to the religious traditions of it And how much of it is tied to what I still find very effective about Christmas Which is essentially just like movie Christmas I fucking love movie Christmas and lights in New York

[00:27:00] And food with weird wrappings and things like that Yeah, yeah You know it's interesting because I grew up doing kind of the secular Christmas But mostly very religious Christmas When I was three my mom took me aside and said there is no Santa Claus

[00:27:18] But also your dad is Santa Claus And I was like oh cool, that's awesome Good for him You married Santa Claus? Mom, that rules Which she was saying you know because like when you get a gift from Santa That's actually from your dad

[00:27:30] But I was three so I didn't entirely understand that But yeah, I grew up with super religious I remember very specifically there was a Christmas service at my church That ended with the pastor being like

[00:27:42] And we have this recording of hell that I'm going to play for you now Wow And yeah Because yeah We were saying like we got a microphone in Oh yeah, yeah This is This is a famed story in evangelical Christian circles

[00:27:57] That a bunch of Soviet scientists dug a hole to the center of the earth I'm aware of this story I didn't know it was evangelical embraced as well This is sort of like a weird urban legend It's like Oh my god, this is hardcore

[00:28:11] So they genuinely presented it as like a scientific breakthrough We finally have captured audio of hell We've audio of hell And it's on the internet if you want to go look for it It sounds like a mall food court slowed way down Like it's yeah Emily It's wild

[00:28:26] I'm just going to stop you for a second If Ben's looking particularly despondent It's because he had been working on trying to create the first ditch podcast He thought he was going to be the first person to stick

[00:28:37] A microphone in a dirt hole and just record it for two hours I'm so upset Damn it This is a big, this is a major hit for him I will say that the hole that they actually dug Which was a 40,000 foot hole

[00:28:51] Is called the Cola Super Deep Bore Hole Which is a pretty good name Yeah And it really, it was like an experiment of like What happens if we just dig really far? Well you give people fodder for stories about having recordings of hell

[00:29:12] So yeah, we would go to church And they're teaching children about Santa Claus And like that would be presented as like we were losing Jesus from the center of the season or whatever Yeah And then you know I went off to college and I eventually moved to California

[00:29:28] And I really started to miss winter Like I missed snow, I missed, I missed really what I missed was New York Christmas Which I had not experienced to that point But like now have been Speaking my language Emily Yeah, now have been several times

[00:29:41] And I'm like oh this is like the ideal city for Christmas Yeah Los Angeles is kind of depressing because they do this thing at the Grove Which is our big shopping mall That's like they just send foam into the air and it's supposed to be snow

[00:29:53] And I took my wife to that and she was just despondent the whole way back Because it's so disturbing and gross But then the first year we were in California Somebody on Christmas Eve like would go up to the mountains And gotten a giant pile of snow

[00:30:09] And just put it in the parking lot of our apartment complex And that felt like you know like Christmas to me So I started to get more into secular you know Christmas music Christmas bullshit basically And watching every Christmas movie, every Christmas special I could find

[00:30:24] And that sort of became a weird obsession So that's why I'm here But I like I'm very much all in on all of that stuff And I grew up with Christmas being devoid of any religious meaning

[00:30:39] And I also grew up in New York where Christmas feels very romantic So just like Christmas flavored things And Christmas albums and Christmas movies and specials I get very caught up in it I will feel very depressed going through this Christmas without there being like

[00:30:58] The Christmas Eve vibe in the same sort of way Aside from the fact I'm probably not going to celebrate anything with my family But I'm also just like things like the outdoor sort of like Market at Union Square and Brian Parr The Rockefeller Center

[00:31:14] Sticky bandits, wet bandits, stuff like this Have you seen this Rockefeller Center tree? It's bad I mean if this isn't a metaphor for 2020 I mean if 2020 was a tree Yeah But have a place to wear a face mask Is that what they did?

[00:31:37] No it just looks really shitty It's kind of a weird shitty tree I don't really get it because I think there's like a whole process where they like You know there's people grow big trees We saw they showed the picture of it when they cut it down

[00:31:49] And it's literally how it started How it's going meme applied to 2020 Because it was beautiful when they cut it down And now it's just like all crap I mean I just looked at the photo and my immediate thought was

[00:32:02] Oh the tree guy couldn't get out of bed either Dude I get it, major feeling The first time I was ever on this show was because It was Christmas 2016 and I went to New York Specifically because I was like well there may never be another Christmas

[00:32:23] So I'd better come to New York And have one more Christmas there And we made it sort of We made it Wow, we'll talk about full circle So you love Christmas media I do as well

[00:32:41] I feel like I'm such a sap for Christmas that even stuff I'm cynical about Usually activates me in some way And I honestly feel like Polar Express And A Christmas Carol, Disney's A Christmas Carol Might be two of the only Christmas movies I've ever seen

[00:32:57] That stir no feelings of Christmas cheer at me I will, I'll even say this I agree with that I ended up hearing I made this gigantic Christmas playlist on Spotify that I made this gigantic Christmas playlist on Spotify That anyone could contribute to

[00:33:13] And somebody put Sylvesterie's Christmas Carol score on there And I just heard it, sans the movie And was like this is great, this is great Christmas music And in the movie it just gets buried by whatever the hell is going on Makes zero impression

[00:33:27] I know, it's a good score, it's a totally as you say The fine work on its own Yeah, this is um Yeah, this is just a I watched a few years ago Every version of Christmas Carol I could get my hands on

[00:33:42] And this is by far one of the worst Which is this story is really hard to screw up Like the reason that it's boring Is because the underlying story is always pretty good But yeah Do you have a go-to pick for what you think the best adaptation is

[00:33:58] Or the couple at the top? Oh Griffin, do I I'm fishing for an answer here and I'm hoping I learned My favorite is the, this actually has this amicus connection It's the 1971 animated version by Richard Williams Who did the animation for Who Framed Roger Rabbit

[00:34:18] It is done in the style of the woodcut engravings from Dickens original book It's gorgeous, it's on YouTube Even in like 360p or whatever it is It's just gorgeous to look at and beautiful He won an Oscar for it I love the Alistair Sim version

[00:34:33] I like Muppet Christmas Carol a lot There's some really good ones But my favorite by far the one I watch every year Is that 1971 version That one is really good Alistair Sim also plays Scrooge in it Like he's doing your classic Scrooge

[00:34:46] He is, right, he's sort of the He's, he is Scrooge, right? Like that's the, you know, that he played Scrooge a bunch Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah Muppet Christmas Carol definitely My first experience of Christmas Carol I would imagine My first was, my first was Mickey's

[00:35:03] And I think Mickey's has got a little You know what, I saw Mickey, yes Mine was also Mickey's I definitely saw that when I was Yes, that's right That Mickey one was big Am I mistaken in thinking That it was released in theaters Alongside one of the re-releases

[00:35:20] Of a Disney classic And then it became just like a blockbuster VHS Well, let's find out I saw it, my very first time going to the movies I saw Mickey's Christmas Carol With the Rescuers There we go In theaters Yes, it was put

[00:35:35] It was put with the Rescuers And then just became a TV Right Yeah But that one's really good too I mean, yeah, it speaks to just the potency Of this story that like Not only are most adaptations of it At least enjoyable But also the inevitable like TV

[00:35:54] Episode parodies of it Are usually pretty good It is pretty hard to fuck up this format Yeah We never get tired of it And there, I don't know I feel like there was something Slightly exciting about The announcement of this movie Just because it felt like

[00:36:15] That might be in Zemeckis' wheelhouse And aside from the mocap He doesn't have any big story hook He's not trying to put it in a contemporary setting He's not trying to radicalize it in any way Like his argument is using this technology

[00:36:32] To try to make the most faithful adaptation Of the book In a way the technology Could not allow up until this point Which in a way he succeeded at Because the book does have that sequence Rarely committed to film where Scrooge is chased

[00:36:46] By a hearse being driven by The Ghost of Christmas Future And then like has to, you know, escape it And turns into a tiny man and goes into a tube And a whole bunch of stuff happens It's in the book Nobody's ever put it on film

[00:37:00] There's a shit joke in there Where he talks about Christmas pudding Which is cool The book has, people don't realize this It has 45 pages of tiny Scrooge Hanging onto an empty bottle Skitting down the streets and rooftops It does bring in things That are from the book

[00:37:21] That I guess know, like the thing where he Puts out the Christmas past guy As a candle That is in the book I don't know that you're like You're reading the book and you're like God that's so great, we gotta include That's just a weird image

[00:37:38] And Zemeckis is like Yeah, that'll be a set piece That's gonna be a whole set piece We're gonna blow that out There's stuff that's in the book That he could have put in the movie That would have padded things out in an interesting way

[00:37:52] Like the Scrooge and The Ghost of Christmas Present Go on a journey where they visit minors And sailors and people who are celebrating Christmas Out in the wilds of Britain And that is a nice little sequence In the Richard Williams one So it's very odd that this film

[00:38:08] Is A, completely lacking in humor It is like perhaps the single most humorless Adaptation I have ever seen of this story And B, excuse me Is also weirdly lacking in feeling Yeah, mm, yeah It has not a lot of emotion And like it's just about a person's emotional

[00:38:32] Transformation, like that's what a Christmas Carol is about So that's a problem Well he's a bastard I mean that reads Yeah, you get that he's not very nice at the beginning Where he says children should go to jail Sure, but I also For the crime of poverty

[00:38:51] I feel like you got some fundamental issues If I'm watching a Christmas Carol And when Tiny Tim shows up for the fourth time I go, oh right, Tiny Tim Right, right, right Tiny Tim's in the movie, okay The other I would say That Griesh U'Griffin is referring to

[00:39:07] Is that this film's star is Jim Carrey Famously funny man And is light on jokes, light on humor But also like light on character comedy Like it feels like he is Pointedly trying to avoid finding Any comedic angle to the four characters he plays Which is remarkable

[00:39:29] Because Scrooge is already a comedic character Of a rich man And then the ghosts are You can go any direction with them And like the idea of having him play these ghosts Is actually pretty smart And like the kind of thing Mocap was made to do

[00:39:43] But they don't do anything with it It's one of these strongest arguments For Mocap, is that kind of like Oh it's like a digital kind of Man of a thousand faces thing You can have one guy play a whole cast Of characters being scenes with himself

[00:39:58] Have that be a more natural sort of acting pipeline And yeah it's like It's not like that's like part of the text In the way that like you know The dad and hook are usually double cast In Peter Pan But it feels kind of natural

[00:40:12] In that same sort of way Yeah they're reflections of Scrooge It makes sense Like it's thematically appropriate I mean the ghost of Marley is his guilt The ghost of Christmas past is his regret The ghost of Christmas present is his loneliness

[00:40:27] And the ghost of Christmas future is his fear Like it works It just you know they don't bother Like explaining why they're doing it Or at least just having like Jim Carrey make fart noises When he's a giant man Like that would be cool

[00:40:40] It is odd to watch a modern adaptation Of a classical work and be like Man I wish he was like Breaking scene to teach someone how to doggie I wish there was more like Right, I wish he was like Do not go in there You're just like

[00:40:58] Do something motherfucker Yeah he does a little at the end As we will I'm sure talk about Like when he's happy Scrooge He's finally it feels like riffing a little bit Like doing some Carrey stuff Yeah It's a thin gruel I will say this

[00:41:17] I think Christmas Carol is I can't think of another Thing that is so frequently adapted Where we talk about How it's adapted in terms of Who plays Scrooge instead of who directed it It's the Alistair Sim Christmas Carol It's the Patrick Stewart Christmas Carol

[00:41:33] It's the George C. Scott Christmas Carol Whatever and you know like This is the only one where it's like Yeah that's Zemeckis' Christmas Carol That's partially because Zemeckis is such a big deal And it's partially because Jim Carrey leaves Absolutely no impression Because this absolutely should be

[00:41:49] The Jim Carrey Christmas Carol You have to imagine that's why Disney pulled So hard on this thing If I can back up a little bit To just do a little bit of table setting Because this is like a byproduct Of I think a really interesting kind of

[00:42:03] Five-year period at Walt Disney Studios Where they're in this transition zone It's sort of the jump between Eisner being Outstead and Iger fully dominating The motion picture landscape Before they start acquiring everything And just become you know IP But I know like you know

[00:42:25] Their animation studio was still on the rocks They're in the process of rebuilding it Pixar had just been acquired By them so 2009 The last three Pixar movies Had been Up, Wally And Ratatouille the three movies That Pixar produced independently So like Disney's influence on Pixar

[00:42:45] Won't come into effect until next year With Toy Story 3 Bolt is I think the year before this Tangled is the year after this That's really when Disney animation Is kind of up on its feet The Pirates the Caribbean series Perhaps tapped out at this point

[00:43:01] They revive it again But at this point it was like maybe that's Three and done I think there was a major awareness on their part That they did not have boys brands That was always sort of talked about That they like They were trying to retool the Disney

[00:43:17] Princess strength in a modern way Aside from just the legacy characters On sleeping bags But they were like we need boys things So Tron Legacy happens And Prince of Persia happens Lone Ranger happens And outrageous budget But they're just like taking big bets On trusted names for things

[00:43:37] Where it's like is that an old franchise That maybe has enough cult appeal Are these people who have been good with us In the past are they going to be able to make something new That comes out five months after this And is like a humongous hit

[00:43:49] That I feel like really starts to mark Like the transitional point That movie very much feels like it came out Of we want to be in business with big talent We want to get Burton back in the fold We want to come up with a new take

[00:44:01] On Alice in Wonderland But what stems out of that obviously Is just let's remake all of our legacy titles Let's just get more Literal about putting these things Into live action But this is like the end of Dick Cook's run

[00:44:17] And it felt like he was really starting to experiment And there was a story I remember Reading on like Aina Kuhl or whatever In 07 or 08 About like the big upfront meeting they had For their shareholders Where they were like announcing and showing off

[00:44:31] Concept art for the next three years Of their big movies And it was the kind of thing that gets live streamed Now and people lose their minds over Because we now all like watching Shareholder presentations as content But back then it was like

[00:44:45] I think that didn't leak out And there were just weird written reports of it And these guys coming out and like selling their pitch And Zemeckis came out And like pitched the Christmas Carol thing And showed off the artwork The concept artwork

[00:44:59] And was just like look first of all Jim Carrey is the ultimate mocap actor Think about what we're starting to work on here Rubber face! Yeah! Right I tell you Jim Carrey and mocap Playing multiple characters Already dollar signs in the eyes

[00:45:13] Right then I go Jim Carrey is Scrooge you should get amp That feels like a great part for him And the other characters he's playing are the ghost And people are losing their minds And he's like and by the way

[00:45:25] I have a pretty good track record when it comes to time travel movies And I just remember reading that Like it brought the fucking house down And people were salivating and they were like Yes! Yes! And he was like polar express Remember that shit

[00:45:37] At least in IMAX every year it makes another 10 million dollars And people are like fucking like Arsenio Wolf hollering You can see how on paper Even though now it feels like a kind of Risky bet because everything has been So algorithmed

[00:45:51] And you so rarely get a movie that isn't From a very specific well established Pipeline Coming out of Disney This does kind of check off all the boxes Where you have to imagine Disney maybe Regrets that they didn't do polar Express

[00:46:07] That this technology seems like it's not going anywhere Although it ends up mutating after this Into a pretty different form The straight mocap movie Pretty much ends after this Save for Tintin And also like Jim Carrey that's a big star we want to be

[00:46:23] In business with much like they had Done bedtime stories that they were like We want to make an Amsandler movie We want to make these big movie star movies We want to be in these brand silos And then it becomes like We have our four pipelines that's it

[00:46:37] All that experimentation goes away Another weird thing that came out of that pitch presentation Do either of you remember this That they announced that Guillermo del Toro Was going to be given his own Imprint at Disney Called Disney Double Dare You

[00:46:51] Where he was going to get to make live action And animated films at a midsize budget That were particularly designed To scare children I do remember that Literally Like six months later He gave some interview where he was like Yeah that never happened

[00:47:09] Like that's not going to happen Dick Cook got fired and everything went out the window And then you have these vestiges The leftover movies like Christmas Carol But there was also so much post Hellboy 2 Guillermo stuff that never came together Like he was the king of announcing shit

[00:47:25] That sounded cool And would fall apart and then of course The ultimate version of that The first year I went to Comic Con Was 2009 And that was Christmas Carol year And Disney was like the first Presentation in the big ass hall H

[00:47:43] Which is where they have all the movie stuff And Christmas Carol had a lot of buzz coming out of that People were like this looks really cool The ghosts look great Blah blah blah and like I don't know what they showed

[00:47:53] Because I assume they showed footage from this film But people were like buzzing about it So I was kinda hyped for this movie There's another factor at play Which is just that 3D Was still pretty fresh There weren't a lot of Fully 3D movies And especially movies like

[00:48:11] Designed with someone who understands The technology As well as Zemeckis does So I just feel like when people would See a 5 minute sizzle reel Or a trailer of this You were just kind of so dazzled by like God there's so much like kinetic energy and movement

[00:48:27] And everything's popping into my face That people would be like I guess it looks great No, no I thought this movie looked like shit I thought it was a bad idea at the time I want that on the record

[00:48:39] I heard the idea and I was like I sound stupid That was also the first year they did 3D presentations in hall H And that was the year they presented Avatar And everyone was like this looks terrible This is what Griff and I were talking about

[00:48:51] This movie is what is it Griff Avatar comes out 6 weeks After this movie They look like they're in different decades There are aspects of Avatar That already are looking creaky But jeez Louise These films do not feel like they are of the same generation

[00:49:07] Let alone within a 2 month span of each other It's really like Cameron is really Spankings and Mechison terms of like Okay you think you're like the sort of Pioneering VFX director But like you truly Do not know what you're doing with this stuff

[00:49:23] Like I mean I know he's not doing this aggressively But that's just how it feels And they do feel like after this Zemeckis slinks off and Cuts it out He gets tempted back later As we will see But he's like you know I'm going to go make

[00:49:39] Flight yeah This is the other part of it I want to frame Is that Image Movers his company Which should sort of become Image Movers digital And was starting to rebrand itself In an animation company Did Polar Express of Warner Brothers Monster House at Sony Beowulf at Paramount

[00:49:59] Most of those films were independently financed Sold off to distributors Disney was like We want you These were the types of acquisitions they were making Rather than buying Marvel for billions Of dollars they were like Can we get a first look 3 picture deal

[00:50:13] With Image Movers maybe this is the future So it was This film and then Two months after this movie Three months after this movie Mars needs moms comes out And he was He was getting ready to film Yellow Submarine The weekend Mars needs Marms came out and they

[00:50:33] Literally like pulled the plug turned the lights off Shut everything down He was like ready to go And there's a lot of artwork You can see for that That looks incredibly strange And he was going to do what was described as A more narrative Based Yellow Submarine

[00:50:53] Sucked so much It was going to be the worst It looked so weird have you seen the pictures I've seen the The picture of the purple meanie And it looks to me like some Alice in Wonderland crap And I hate it It also looks like Rudy Giuliani

[00:51:09] There's one that really looks like Rudy Giuliani There's a picture of the Beatles And they have like Bananas Yellow Submarine Proportions where their arms and legs are Like 12 feet long And like You know the width of spaghetti He's going for less photo realistic with it

[00:51:29] Which at least feels like Well that's where you should have been going earlier On But Disney just bales entirely On the notion of like this being a form Of entertainment, this being the guy to be In business with And that's when he totally slinks off

[00:51:45] And apparently like retreats to a house And like reassesses his life And then is like send me good Specscripts, let me just read good live action Movies that won't cost much to make Wasn't You know this like Peter Sara Fanowich was going to play Paul Right? Yes, yes

[00:52:03] Yeah, crazy I've talked to him about a lot They were like really ready to go And He was very excited about it I mean he's a really big Beatles fan I think he was just very excited To be playing that part Yes, I think it's also worth noting

[00:52:21] That it wasn't just that Marzini bombs Bombed, although of course that thing Bombed, but a Christmas Carol Did not make money Like even though it was pretty successful In terms of money gross So fucking much Right, so it was like a hit

[00:52:37] But a hit at the box office That ended up being a money loser for them And then Marzini bombs was radioactive Yeah, yeah and Marzini bombs They didn't need them And like Christmas Carol Christmas Carol should generate Money, but this was so expensive

[00:52:55] And like you could see Disney being Like well we can bring it back every year Like they do with Paul and it just It never happened, it never became that kind of movie So that's the other interesting kind of rabbit hole

[00:53:05] That went down here trying to figure out Like why Disney was so confident About this. The other aspect Is in terms of Disney trying to like Check off boxes at this point in time Trying to rebuild their world domination And being like we need an action franchise

[00:53:19] We need a this, we need a that We need this going Disney surprisingly doesn't Really have like a definitive Christmas movie And for an entertainment company As vertically integrated as Disney The value of having a Christmas movie That's gonna like pop up again In revenue every year

[00:53:39] That will always be like Replayed on TV, go up in rentals Yeah, yeah. You can re-release You can do all the merchandise And like I feel like they've now Kind of squared the circle by being Like Nightmare for Christmas is both That's their one right

[00:53:55] I mean you're forgetting another Film that I directed three fourths of You directed three fourths of it? Yeah, I was the dream maker Not Cracker and the Four Realms Right, exactly. I did three of those realms But David to this point, Night Cracker and the Four Realms

[00:54:09] Is like the one inexplicable Disney Movie of the last five years Right, it's them being like Can we get a Christmas movie? Right, it has to be And even like the Santa Claus trilogy Which is successful for them Has not lingered in that same kind of way

[00:54:25] Like you have to imagine Disney is like I wish we had an elf I wish we had a wonderful life Okay, now that Dispegs the question, what's the best Like come on, Emily, Griffin, Ben Christmas movie Like come on, what's your Christmas movie? Always It's a wonderful life

[00:54:45] Like I just, you know Yeah, like I I just can't Top top that one. I think it is interesting That Disney purchased 20th Century Fox and Disney Plus, they're a Christmas section Mostly 20th Century Fox movies Home Alone Miracle 34 They are really weaponizing Home Alone now

[00:55:07] They are like pushing Home Alone nostalgia hard because I think they are like Finally we have one that People are in the feels about And then for Christmas It gets murky between two holidays I mean it's Same obvious lazy answers for me Elf is my favorite modern one

[00:55:25] I'm up at Christmas Carol is probably my emotional favorite Wonderful life I think is the best My secret stealth answer Even though it doesn't totally fit But it is a movie set around Christmas and New Year's is Hudsucker Proxy Hudsucker Proxy is the movie that feels most like

[00:55:41] The holidays for me The movie that I Love even though I know it's Total shit but I watch it every year Like a lot of people have that relationship with love Actually, I have that relationship with the family Stone which I know David of course

[00:55:55] I was about to say don't you fucking say the fucking Family fucking stone to me Yes Yes Emily yes Why do people like this movie? It works it just fucking works It works You're not the only person lots of people like That movie Yeah

[00:56:15] You can't go wrong it's just a Great cast they're having it I love the giant family Family stone is so bad It's a film I saw with my grandma At Christmas And I loved and I had My Rachel McAdams crush was at its peak Yeah

[00:56:33] And she's wearing like a dinosaur junior Shirt in that movie and she's got glasses I want to note that at this time On the message board you had a Rachel McAdams And wedding craster signature in your picture Because you just worked so hard And you were like

[00:56:47] I'm gonna go and get it In your picture Call me out I'll fucking admit it absolutely I don't remember that but I believe it I loved Rachel McAdams The best Me and my fucking grandma walked out of that movie That was kind of disappointing

[00:57:05] Like it didn't get me And I've never seen it since And I keep Should I give it one more shot People love the family stone Yeah I feel like never really had another hit, right? That Diane Lane-Kevin Costner movie that just came out,

[00:57:25] that's the highest-present movie in America by default. And then he did the one with Selena Gomez. Right. Someone was tweeting the other day, some critic who I apologize for not giving credit to, but someone was tweeting like, he's this incredibly weird figure

[00:57:44] because he goes like 10 years in between movies and he makes like a low-scale exercise in a kind of forgotten genre that's slightly better than it needs to be and then just kind of disappears again. I remember when Family Stone came out

[00:57:59] or when it was screening, there was a movie every year that esteemed internet commentator, David Poland, every year would be like, this is going to be an Oscar player. This is going to win a bunch of awards. Family Stone was his movie in 2005

[00:58:12] and then it did nothing at the Oscars. You speak of course, the Poland curse. The Poland curse. Right, the Poland curse. I was all in on those boards at the time or certainly at least the comment sections

[00:58:24] on the Hop blog or as Lex G would call it, the cold blog. A savage, a brutal takedown from Lex G. But yes, the most infamous one was when he said that Phantom of the Opera was going to win Best Picture. We have our front runner.

[00:58:42] Mini driver snubbed. When are you doing Schumacher? Get out of here, it's too fucking long. It's half a year, Joel Schumacher. That's the problem. I'd love to cherry pick. Yeah, I mean, oh boy, it's long. We've talked, we've sort of joked about it or whatever.

[00:59:02] It's also a weird sad ending. The last five just stink. Oh yeah. Family stone for, okay. So yeah, whatever. Maybe you know what I'm going to watch the family stone? The everyone's favorite wife swap movie about, you know, white guilt, right?

[00:59:18] There's that whole scene where Sarah Jessica Parker points at herself to reference race or whatever. Anyway, Christmas movies. People like that new one, the happiest season. I haven't seen it yet. Excited to watch it. That's cute. Family stone vibes, right?

[00:59:37] It is a mediocre family gets together at Christmas movie because it doesn't give anybody but Christian Stewart and Mackenzie Davis anything to do, but it's a very sweet Christmas rom-com about two ladies, which is right up my alley. Look, I love Home for the Holidays personally.

[00:59:53] The George Foster movie. That's a fantastic movie, yeah. Which is another, I mean, I believe, I can't even remember if it's Thanksgiving or Christmas. It's Christmas, right? I think it's Thanksgiving. No, it's Thanksgiving. It's Thanksgiving. That's the only problem with it, but it's the same obvious, you know,

[01:00:10] it's the same thematic thing. I love, yeah, you know what? I love Robert Downey Jr. I love Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang. That's a great Christmas movie. Obviously Iron Man 3, the iconic Christmas movie that we love, Griffin. I mean, can we go on a little side tangent here?

[01:00:25] This shit that gets litigated every year of like, what is that a Christmas movie? As if there is some governing board, as if it's like champagne. And unless the film is produced... I am, I am the governing board. So let me just determine right now,

[01:00:41] names of movies, I'll tell you if they're Christmas movies. But like all Shane Black movies are Christmas movies, right? There shouldn't be any litigation there. To the degree that I always think Die Hard is a Shane Black movie because it features Christmas so prominently. Thank you. Same here.

[01:00:56] I always file it in the Shane Black cabinet. Right. And Shane Black wrote many of Bruce Willis' movie, but no, A Little Princess. That's another one. That's a Christmas movie, right? I don't really remember, but Christmas must happen in that movie. Yeah.

[01:01:10] I like Fanny and Alexander is like a Christmas movie to me because it has a gorgeous Christmas sequence. The thing is, and I don't think I'm telling tales out of school here, the Christmas movie for me is Fellowship of the Ring.

[01:01:23] Not even all the War of the Rings. I agree. The War of the Rings movies, I watch all of them around Christmas. They're a classic Christmas rewatch. I basically do it every year. I don't always make it to Return of the King because they're long,

[01:01:40] but Fellowship of the Ring, I think has to be in the canon. David, and they're like on cable TV. Yeah, right. I feel like I'm at my parents' house and I'll watch them with commercials. Like they just feel like they're running.

[01:01:56] Look, we're going to let Emily do the final ruling here, but for me, that's where it starts to become questionable. When people go like, no, Duh-Hurray, it's an action movie. It's not a Christmas movie. It's like one doesn't negate the other. It's set around Christmas.

[01:02:08] Christmas is interwoven throughout the entire film. Fellowship of the Ring, your argument is I watch it at Christmas time. They've got elves griffin'. Come on. They've got elves. Is it text movies? Is it text movies? Yes, all Christmas movies are about needing people in your life

[01:02:25] to be in your life. It's hard times, right? That's what Christmas movies are about, right? Let me submit that a movie that becomes a legitimate, gigantic phenomenon that changes the film industry that comes out at Christmas, which happens very rarely

[01:02:42] can be sort of a Christmas movie by proxy. It has to be brought to the party by a different Christmas movie, but I would say The Three Lord of the Rings and Titanic both fit that criteria. Put him in. I'd like to throw out two obvious

[01:02:58] griff picks as well. Sure. Gremlins, Great Christmas Movie. The Phoebe Kates Santa Claus speech, one of my favorite elements of Christmas filmmaking ever. Batman Returns, Great Christmas Movie. Of course, absolutely. I also, of course, you have one has to acknowledge Eyes Wide Shut, of course,

[01:03:19] a great Christmas movie. Wonderful Christmas Movie. Of course, Trapped in Paradise. That's a classic Christmas movie. The film that was written, directed and produced by Ben. Nicholas Cage, John Lovett's film. I mean, we all love that, right? I've never seen Trapped in Paradise.

[01:03:39] I think the even more interesting sort of question is, these movies that have a Christmasy vibe but aren't actually about Christmas, like the one I always point to is The Royal Tenenbombs, which doesn't actually have anything to do with Christmas, but feels like it takes place at Christmas.

[01:03:55] Well, I'd say Anderson definitely. A lot of his movies, I feel, have that sort of, because they have a snow globe feel to them. But yes, Royal Tenenbombs, especially because it's about family and all that, that also brings it in. You know, family, movies about family

[01:04:07] often sort of end up getting sifted into this box. Well, I just, I read some, one of the National Treasure producers was doing press for some other movie he produced or something. And they asked about why National Treasure 3 never happened and he offered one of the 15 excuses

[01:04:26] that come up from time to time. But the one he said that was different was, you know, Disney is so vertically integrated, they never figured out how to make National Treasure valuable for them in any other sector of their business. They never figured out how to put it

[01:04:41] in the theme parks. It never became merchandise. You know, you couldn't do, like the video games didn't work. Like, there was no other area of the company that could benefit from National Treasure and as time went on, Disney became all about like,

[01:04:54] a movie needs to function in every facet of our company. And something like Santa Claus, the Santa Claus trilogy, the Tim Allen movies, their hits, all three of them do well, well enough for there to be three of them. But A, even though I think there is

[01:05:08] some nostalgia for them from our generation, it doesn't feel like they're the same kind of, like perennial, regular TV appointment viewing movies. It doesn't feel like they've ever gained any value at Disney in other areas of the company. And you just have to imagine, in 2009, Disney's looking around

[01:05:26] and they're like, we don't have a Grinch. We don't have a Charlie Brown. We don't have a Buddy the Elf. Like aside from not having like a classical Christmas movie, we also don't have like a mascot of Christmas. We can put Mickey in a Santa hat, you know?

[01:05:42] Even to some degree, I wonder if that's a reason why they never have weaponized Muppet Christmas Carol, as much as I thought they would after they bought it, that they want something that is like proprietary to Christmas. So the appeal for them of like,

[01:05:57] let's get a massive movie star and a massive filmmaker doing like what could be the definitive Scrooge. And he can be like all designed to look perfect like Scrooge and the ghost will look awesome. It tracks on paper. But I agree with you, David,

[01:06:15] that when I saw it, I thought it looked like to quote David Sillm's film critic at the Atlantic like a bowl of farts. I thought it looked like a bowl of farts. And I remember just feeling like this really this is still as far as

[01:06:31] the technology has come. This is still the sensibility that Zemeckis is hitching his wagon to that haven't been said. Remember going to see movies with my friends in theaters, that trailer came up. One friend in particular, I remember turning me and going, that looks amazing.

[01:06:46] I remember the trailer being very extra. It was really trying to sell that his face and how intense it looked, all that. There's a money shot at the end of the trailer that isn't in the movie where he turns to camera. It turns to camera and his face

[01:07:02] is like coming into the theater and like a snowflake lands on his nose. He blows it off. He looks straight down the barrel lens and he says, bah humbug. And I swear it must have been like a test. It must have been the demo reel

[01:07:18] to get them to green light the movie because it also looks so much better than he looks at any point in the film proper. But I remember that shot and my friend Dixie turning to me and saying, oh, that looks amazing. And I was like, really?

[01:07:30] You think that looks amazing? And she went, well, I guess I've never seen a 3D movie before. Mmm. Like we were going to see some other 3D movie. That was the first trailer in 3D. And that being her first impression was like, oh, shit.

[01:07:45] This trailer is doing all sorts of crazy shit. It looks amazing. It did like it didn't open well, but it did people went to see this. People went to see it. It opened poorly and then had OK holds. But it did well overseas.

[01:08:04] Yeah, but they wanted it did OK. It did about the same overseas. They wanted the polar express thing. I think we're really over performed, you know, come Christmas time and it did not. If you open a Christmas movie the first weekend of November

[01:08:18] and you can keep it in theaters, we'll have a pretty, but yeah, I think it's, I remember I went to see this movie on Christmas Eve because I was like, I'm going to go see a movie and the theater was packed. Like people were coming out for it.

[01:08:32] So, yeah, I agree with sort of your theory of where Disney was. I think Santa Claus would be a bigger thing for them if not for Tim Allen. I think that Tim Allen kind of killed that movie by being Tim Allen in a weird way.

[01:08:47] It is also interesting that the first movie is so much like Fish Out of Water. He's at odds. You wouldn't believe this guy is Santa Claus. And the sequels lean so much into Tim Allen and so much makeup looking like Coca-Cola Santa Claus. Yeah, like the poster

[01:09:03] for the second Santa Claus movie was Tim Allen looking at the, you know, looking at you, looking like Santa Claus. Right, right. At this point, yeah, he doesn't look like Tim Allen anymore. He doesn't sound like Tim Allen. There are no rules to be found.

[01:09:16] I'm going to save it in fact and I'm going to make it my background. Here we go. Anyway, this movie. So you saw it in theaters, Emily. I saw it in theaters. I did. I waited until Christmas Eve. I was going to see it opening weekend,

[01:09:28] but the reviews were so bad and then I was just like... I mean, it's wild. It's wild. It's wild, this picture we're looking at. No one's cheeks have ever been rosier. He looks drunk. I mean, let's just be straightforward. His face is red. It's the color red.

[01:09:49] That's wild. Looks like ham from a shot in the 50s. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes, I do. Back when they were like... It's how it looks is what matters. Let's put as many chemicals as you want into it. It should look like a red sausage.

[01:10:07] This is another interesting point though, is you look at this poster and you go, why pay for Tim Allen? What are you doing here? Just go to Macy's. He compares. Versus another thing you have to calculate into this very movie is the Grinch was so fucking successful.

[01:10:28] Despite being a piece of shit, it was so huge and the fact that Jim Carrey was unrecognizable in it did not hurt business at all. People were into the transformation of, oh my God, it doesn't look like him. It doesn't sound like him.

[01:10:44] He's transformed into this classic character. Yeah, it's this thing that really becomes the impetus to do a lot of these films is how can we make this person look exactly like the Grinch? Look exactly like Santa Claus? I'm going to say the writer of Hillbilly Elegy.

[01:11:02] Damn, I was trying to get Santa Claus 3 going but it doesn't really work with him. I'm sick of it too. Santa Claus 2 is kind of my aspirational fantasy which is that I will meet a middlingly attractive middle-aged man who's like, listen,

[01:11:19] I'm in love with you and I'm going to make you Mrs. Claus and you just have to move with me to the North Pole. That's the premise of my show. I'm going to think about it every time. I did not see this film, Griffin.

[01:11:36] I decided to not see it. That was my choice. Same here. And I'm glad that you respect it. Instead, I probably saw Avatar again or I saw Sherlock Holmes or trying to think of sort of big Christmas movies that year.

[01:11:50] I absolutely saw Avatar for the third time on Christmas day with my family. Some of the other big movies at Christmas, I'm not spoiling the box office game because of course this film came out in early November. Alvin and the Chipmunks, The Squeakwell.

[01:12:04] Alvin and the Chipmunks, The Squeakwell. It was that banana's weekend. It still is, I think, the single biggest day in movie-going history because of Avatar, Squeakwell, and Sherlock Holmes all opening to over 70. Yes, and I think also Christmas was a Friday. It was all perfectly lined up.

[01:12:24] It's complicated. Came out on Christmas day. You have Up in the Air. These are Christmas movies that I was seeing. I did not see a Christmas Carol. I saw it yesterday on my couch and I thought it was bad, three out of ten.

[01:12:40] I watched it tonight right before recording on a 3D Blu-ray. I could not believe how boring it was. I texted David. I believed, let me get my exact wording here. I said, how is Kerry so dry in this movie? He is weirdly underplaying every role.

[01:13:03] He's funnier in the majestic. Yes, and I believe I said, my thing is like, and you'll agree, Scrooge is like Mr. Birds. He is the most ridiculous exaggerated character. He is the meanest person alive. He's the most miserly person. His personality traits are the most.

[01:13:25] That's what Scrooge is. Signing on to play Scrooge is stepping into a gondola on the river of Ham. Kerry, on top of this, is a cartoon in the movie. It's not just that he's playing Scrooge. He's playing him as a cartoon. His take is like,

[01:13:44] playing him is kind of grumpy. I think that's what I'm going to go for. He's going to be like a little grumpy. He should have gone full Riddler. He should have just gone fucking gone for it. But even like, what's your colleague?

[01:13:59] Series of unfortunate events is five years before this and is arguably a better Scrooge performance than this is. That's the kind of energy he should be bringing to this. And Dr. Robotnik is 11 years later and is a better Scrooge. He's given us many a Scrooge.

[01:14:15] Like, you know, he has the... You know who else is better Scrooge? The Grinch. The Grinch! Another classic Scrooge. That's another reason he shouldn't be Scrooge. You already played the fucking Grinch. Like, how many Christmas grumps do you need Jim Kerry to bring you?

[01:14:31] So I found a quote that Kerry said in an interview while promoting the movie. He said, it's a very classical version of a Christmas carol. There are a lot of vocal things, a lot of physical things I have to do,

[01:14:45] but I want to mention doing the accents properly. The English, Irish accents. I want it to fly in the UK. I want it to be good and I want them to go, yeah that's for real. It feels like that was his biggest take on each of the characters.

[01:14:59] Was like, ghost of Christmas past, a lilting Irish accent, Czech work done. Ghost of Christmas present, kind of a Rolly Poly Yorkshire guy, Czech job done. Ghost of Christmas to be, just point a lot, Czech job done. And the ghost of Christmas past is so disturbing looking.

[01:15:23] I actually like, yelped when it came up yesterday when I was watching this movie. I was like, oh my god, what's that? It just, it, his head's a candle, which is, you know, from the book. His body's a candle, his head's a flame Emily.

[01:15:36] His head's a flame, yeah. Oh, that's right, I'm sorry. His head is fire. But like he moves around, he moves around the fire moves with him and like his face looks like a, like a little like squat, like jack-o-lantern. It's so disturbing.

[01:15:53] The, but weirdly not the ugliest character in this film because the ugliest character is obviously Bob Cratchit. Yeah, Bob Cratchit is terrifying looking. Looks like a potato that has the face of Jesus in it. Like, that's what it looks like.

[01:16:05] Emily, Emily, the term I was about to say was puke potato. I also went to potato, but I couldn't get over the hair pattern on that potato. I want to look at it again now. It's so weird because we literally had had, like when is Gary Oldman playing

[01:16:25] fucking serious black as a fire in Goblet of Fire? Remember there's the, there's the, he's just, his face is just made of coal. He looks better. Like two years earlier? Yeah. Right, he looks better in that because it's the weird cheeks that's all messed up about,

[01:16:41] like it's something about the way his cheeks. He looks like a rodent. Like if you saw him in your house, you would leave out poison. You also think about like, Weta is running the table on Mo Ken at this point in time, right?

[01:16:55] And pointedly, Weta never tried to make their characters look too much like the actors, right? Maybe they put a little hint of it in there, but they were always sort of extrapolating as much onto a different model, which also necessitated some massaging and keyframe animation

[01:17:12] that probably made the performances better, whereas Zemeckis was so into like, it's one to one. We're not fudzing with it at all. It's straight there, unvarnished. It is bizarre that Zemeckis is so committed to like all the characters need to look like the actors,

[01:17:29] but in this one in particular, he hires people who are so physically different than the characters they're playing. So you get these odd, like, it looks like that fucking face replacement app that everyone does now where they put their own face in different videos.

[01:17:44] Where you're smiling all of a sudden, yes. Right, and you're just like, that is not the body that Gary Oldman's face belongs on. He is also not Tiny Tim. Why make a little boy Tiny Tim that moves like Gary Oldman

[01:17:57] and looks kind of like a young Gary Oldman and then is just voiced by some other child? Since you've done your polar express episode, there was a quote Zemeckis gave around the time that movie came out. So tell me if you talked about this,

[01:18:09] that is just horrifying now when we think about who we cast in certain roles, where he was talking about, okay, imagine being able to do a story about, you know, the Brown versus Board of Education, but Meryl Streep can play one of the little girls

[01:18:23] who like has to go to the school and like, Oh my God. Bob, but he got his dream. Gary Oldman's playing Tiny Tim. Right, Hanks plays the little boy and in Marzene's mom's, Seth Green plays the boy. Like he was like really into like having adults play kids

[01:18:39] and in each of those cases, the plan was to have the adult actor also voice the kid and at the last second it was too creepy and they hired a kid to read up it. We should also mention, so that's Gary Oldman.

[01:18:52] Colin Firth is in this movie, third build, as Fred Screw or whatever. Freddy Screw. Also looking kind of like Colin Firth in a weird creepy-waxy way. You've got Hoskins coming in as Mr. Fezzawig for one big sort of musical sequence essentially, right? The hot chocolate of this movie.

[01:19:15] Yes, the hot. You got Robin Wright Penn playing once again a stone face nobody woman character. Like every time he's like, Robin, let's get you in. David, I must correct you. She plays two different stone face, nothing female characters. She plays both his sister and fiance, I believe.

[01:19:37] Correct, correct, correct. And then Kerry Owens, his main job was to be the actor that Jim Carrey acted against in every scene for any of the scenes where he is playing against himself in the final cut. So most of Kerry Owens's work was not used

[01:19:58] and then they gave him like five nothing roles. Yeah, he plays like Portley Gentleman and Mad Fiddler and Guest 2. He plays the guy who asks Screwch for money, which is, you know, a part. That's his biggest part. And then Screwd just like poor children should go to jail

[01:20:16] and he's like, well, they might die and Screwd just like, good, that's great. I love that. Thin out the herd. Elwish was also... That guy's in polite. Elwish was also supposed to be in Yellow Submarine and to some degree, I think Elwish was making a play

[01:20:34] to be like Zemeckis' circus. Like I think he might have been like, can I be one of these guys who figures out this medium and becomes like a go-to mocap stock company actor? Sure, fair enough. And it worked. Yeah, oh sorry, it worked. It worked perfectly.

[01:20:55] Instead he produced Elvis and Nixon and co-wrote it. He did, he co-wrote it well. Harry Elwish co-wrote. But yes, Jim Carrey plays a Benidio Screwd at all ages. Each age is credited as a separate character that he played in the end credits.

[01:21:15] I don't know if you noticed that, but it's like adult Screwd, young man Screwd, little boy Screwd, Screwd as teenager and all of them are credited to Jim Carrey as separate. Screwd's like when he's kind of waking up and he feels a little tired,

[01:21:27] like Screwd during the day, Screwd at work. He should just keep going. Screwd at night. They should really credit it both like mean Screwd and like nice Screwd as different characters. Yes, I mean they're different men. Oh also, Gary Oldman is Marley. Yeah. Yes, he plays Marley.

[01:21:48] I would say and maybe this is a hot take, the worst looking creation in the entire movie. Yeah, which defies logic. Spooky CGI ghost. That should be a slam dunk. He looks just like a person that is blue. Like rather than being like transparent and ghostly.

[01:22:08] And I remember he's in the trailer and that was why when I saw the trailer I was like they clearly, they're just have not figured this out. Like you know there's three of these now and they just don't know what they're doing because he looks like shit.

[01:22:21] And the best Jacob Marley of course is the Marley Brothers from Muffet Christmas Carol. Whoa! Yeah, the whole thing about like the bit where he like undoes his cloth and then he has to like flap his mouth up and down like he's a puppet is just like...

[01:22:39] Yeah, that's weird. Yeah, like it's supposed to be a bit I think but not funny or disturbing really. This is an era that's really earmarked by Zemeckis having poor impulse control of just needing to follow through everything he possibly could do at any given moment of a movie.

[01:22:57] What were you gonna say David? Whoa, so bad. It's just so terrible looking. Yeah, it's so bad. The thing that Emily is referencing where there's the weird kind of body horror and there's a couple other moments like that like the skeleton where it's like,

[01:23:13] oh, he's kind of doing like more tales of the crypti intense visual horror in a kids movie. Right, I thought that was good. Yeah, well I'm like... It's got bones, it's got dust and he's laughing on the ground. Those are cool things. Yeah, right. It's an idea.

[01:23:33] Like that's what I'll give you know what I mean? At least it's something. But like when the little kids want an ignorance turn into like a criminal and like a sex worker, just like what a weird choice. That is incredibly bizarre.

[01:23:47] I did have to double check that it wasn't Leslie Zemeckis playing the adult sex worker because we've noticed a pattern Emily in all of these movies Zemeckis cast his wife as the weirdly the most sexualized character in the Mocap universe. Oh I've seen Welcome to Marwan.

[01:24:03] I've seen it. But also do you know his wife is the burlesque puppet in Polar Express? I did not know that. Yes, and is the busty beer wench in Beowulf where there's three minutes of her pendulous breast swinging. But in this she is she's just Colin Firth's wife.

[01:24:21] I don't think she has much to do. She is in it. Leslie Manville. Please Mrs. Cratchit. Real life ex-wife of Gary Oldman. It's true. Mary Tane by the way. I mean look it's a skilled cast and when we were texting about this David you were saying like

[01:24:42] he's treating this as if he's playing King Lear. Like there's weirdly too much reverence for the idea of what Scrooge is rather than viewing it as like a vehicle to have a lot of fun as an actor let alone as a comedic actor.

[01:24:56] And if it's like if your goal is to do like we're doing a very faithful adaptation we're gonna play it straight and lean more into the spookiness of Dickens or whatever. Then it's like have fucking Gary Oldman or Colin Firth or Bob Hoskins just named three people

[01:25:14] who are in this movie let alone any of the other people from like the Zemeckis Rogues Gallery. Have fucking you know like even you just think about how much more exciting this movie would be less commercial but more exciting would be if it was Christopher Lloyd is Scrooge

[01:25:32] is a mech as is a Christmas Carol and you have that kind of manic energy but it's so bizarre that he is playing it so deadly straight and I realize watching it like I mean talking about Scrooge is kind of this like comedic archetype right?

[01:25:50] Christmas Carol is like the prototype for that sort of story we love the royal we but like something like as good as it gets where it's like watch a very charismatic movie star play an unrepetent asshole the first hour of the movie the fun is

[01:26:08] oh my god they're saying the stuff I would never have the courage to say they don't give a fuck. They're Larry David-ing yes. Right and then the last hour of the movie they learn how to be a good person. Nicholson, Nicholson would have been a good Scrooge.

[01:26:22] It's speaking of people Zemeckis has worked with I think Harrison Ford now has a great Scrooge in him I think he'd be great. He would be so good but it should be about a California stoner who's rich you know what I mean like they don't bring him to

[01:26:38] London this is the mistake stop trying to put these guys in Victorian England bring Scrooge to an audience obviously they did it with Bill Murray right? You can transpose this story to anywhere make it be about a guy who's like

[01:26:50] oh I want to do his yell at David Blaine and make my wood would work right? Like that's what you need I just think the key detail is the actor needs to have fun being this much of an asshole the only way a Christmas Carol works

[01:27:06] is if the audience is getting some perverse pleasure out of how evil Scrooge is as you said David on like a Mr. Burns level so that we're like invested enough to be touched when the transformation happens Carrie's just playing an asshole

[01:27:24] like he's just playing a guy who sucks and you're just looking at your watch being like okay when's he gonna realize the error of his ways like Michael Cain is fucking dialed in in Christmas Carol you know what I mean like so good I

[01:27:42] what are the other Christmas Carol? I like the Murray I like Scrooge it's okay I've always thought it's a little overrated but maybe it's underrated I feel like it's a little overrated it's overrated it wasn't even a huge hit at the time

[01:27:52] maybe it's not overrated but people maybe put too much on it because it has Bill Murray in it I like the classics that we talked about have you ever have you ever seen the rich little Christmas Carol I have read about it it is a glorious thing

[01:28:08] to behold it is um uh rich little playing every part in a Christmas Carol many of them is like celebrity impressions I don't necessarily I'm told this is true but they're all celebrities I'm not really aware of I will hear I'm gonna tell you some of his

[01:28:26] impersonations okay WC Fields as Ebenezer Scrooge I'm looking at this list so first first off hammer butt the audience is just like he went there he's doing he's he's satirizing WC Fields who died 30 plus years ago he's daring to do it

[01:28:46] you got Paul Lind as pop Bob Cratchit Johnny Carson as Fred Laurel and Hardy as the solicitors Richard Nixon as Jacob Marley that's actually a little spicy for 1978 that's somewhat related to the news of the decade uh Groucho Marx as Fezziwig

[01:29:04] Peter Falk as the ghost of Christmas present that sounds good that actually sounds good I'm into that there's no you're missing two key details here it's billed as Peter Falk as Columbo slash the ghost of Christmas present to make it clear which character he's riffing on

[01:29:24] Gene Stapleton as Edith Bunker slash Mrs. Cratchit but then a couple just to end off strong Truman Capote is tiny Tim that's just that's just homophobia I don't know how else to describe that Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau as the ghost of Christmas yet to

[01:29:44] come I forgot to mention Beaugard is the ghost of Christmas past yes you murderer you almost forgot that James Mason George Burns and John Wayne as the three businessmen and Jack Benny as a boy boy I presume the what day is it boy boy

[01:30:02] this this has a helpful tool there are five of these people were dead at time of production cool is that not a laugh track just want to say it's no reason to hear reading that list what we imagine it to be that's the same

[01:30:22] kind of thing you imagine hearing Jim Kerry is going to play four characters in a Christmas Carol like he's just gonna fucking go off and Kerry despite not being like a grump as his comedic persona did a lot of movies where it's like oh he's upsetting polite society

[01:30:38] he's doing whatever the fuck he wants like there is a devil may care streak to him that in theory should fit well guys guys when Richard Nixon comes in as Jacob Marley instead of chains he has watergate tapes he has like real real

[01:30:56] tapes draped on him this is a bastard boy this is so good oh boy yeah we gotta do it you gotta watch it I mean let's do a little little Kerry context we're not digging into me the movie as much because everyone knows what this fucking story is

[01:31:16] yeah it's Christmas Carol there's fucking three ghosts look it up like what do you want from me it is such a faithful adaptation although if there's anything particular you want to say about it Emily adaptation wise would very much like to hear it

[01:31:30] I'll we'll get to that but let's talk Kerry because I think this movie is a Rosetta stone to understand Robert Zemeckis I will and I'll tell you why later Kerry we realize we've never really done a Kerry movie before and he's obviously one of the most dominant

[01:31:48] movie stars in the 90s and we brought it up recently in a box office game his his bananas year where he has 300 million dollar movies in one year he goes from being a guy who gets paid like $150,000 a movie to a guy who gets paid $7 million

[01:32:04] for a movie the following year gets $15 million for the Ace Ventura sequel and the year after that becomes the first actor ever to make $20 million for what ends up being his first major flop and then he kind of just continues to run the table on the 90s

[01:32:23] well it was he made a movie after the cable guy called Liar Liar in which you couldn't lie and we you know obviously that was a huge hit he couldn't lie humongous humongous and then he then he does the Truman movie one of the masterpieces of movie making

[01:32:39] there was the cynicism of like oh Kerry wants to be serious now and then people love that movie and it was a big hit he didn't get an Oscar nomination but it was like a major fucking hit we left off Batman forever which happens in between

[01:32:53] that's 95 that's post his first wave right but only built you got Man on the Moon I think he's great in I did too but then that's a box office disappointment I guess so I mean it's a box office disappointment by the standards of

[01:33:11] a Jim Carrey movie I guess in terms of an Andy Kaufman biopic it's huge it must be the highest cursing Andy Kaufman biopic it definitely wasn't worth him being that big of a dickhead to make that movie it like ruined him right like I mean isn't

[01:33:27] that I haven't ever watched that documentary that documentary is kind of about it's the worst yeah I mean I guess but it just portrays him in the worst light possible they could retitle that paranormal activity six outtakes of Jim Carrey on the set

[01:33:43] of Man on the Moon it is that upsetting he seems like an incredibly difficult person in all ways and like you know Peter Weir on the Truman show like talks about how you had to like tire him out to get a real

[01:34:01] performance at it you know you had to let him do all his shit and then like then you'll start getting stuff out of him like that was sort of how he approached it he definitely feels like an actor you have to wrangle if you're not trying

[01:34:13] to just make a Jim Carrey vehicle like something like Liar Liar you're hiring him to just do everything right but two thousand I feel like that's when he's starting to just be like okay I'm gonna do cartoon stuff right me myself and Irene that's like a cartoon

[01:34:29] rubber face movie Grinch obviously Humongous highest grossing film of that year then the majestic it's weird it's like I love Jim Carrey Ace Ventura Pet Detective is literally the first like VHS I ever bought with my own allowance you know what I mean like I was

[01:34:49] the perfect age for him much like I imagine you guys kind of were maybe not no there was something about Ace Ventura that I always found very disturbing that I didn't understand it's very disturbing in all ways um no I

[01:35:05] I was not allowed to watch Jim Carrey movies but I did sneak Dumb and Dumber on a class trip and it's it's a classic it is same thing for me Emily and it was because my parents hate him he's annoying and like and he was suddenly everywhere

[01:35:23] Ben where are you on Carrey I mean I love the mask the mask is good big big movie for me I mean I still say like taglines from that movie to this very day somebody stop me right for example has to stop you right yeah

[01:35:43] you often yell that at the police I feel like Truman show the first Carrey movie I saw and I didn't see the Carrey comedies until after that like my parents are just like we're not taking that shit we find him so annoying that that card

[01:35:59] game cinephile I was playing that over zoom with my family and my dad got or my sister rather picked up Jim Carrey we were playing it like uh what card on head guess the name of the person kind of thing clue style and so Romley had Jim Carrey

[01:36:19] on her head and my dad was trying to give her clues and his clue was bad actor and I was like you can't give that as a clue as if it's a universal right and he said I hate it it's just he's so annoying

[01:36:35] like he couldn't give any clue that wasn't clouded by his opinion of him so I okay no I was just gonna say I got into him like late ish I mean like 99 I was watching the Carrey comedies on VHS which is as you kind of pointed out

[01:36:51] like when the golden period is over so the Carrey movies I were seeing in theaters where when the bloom was off the rose you're me myself Irene and Bruce Omides and what happened I mean Bruce Omides was a huge hit it's not a good movie it's not even

[01:37:07] an okay movie it's really bad it's actively bad actively bad but it opened $70 million it was the biggest opening weekend for an original film ever in Bruce we trust that was the tagline he done the majestic which had bombed so he was kind of like

[01:37:25] had bombed with everybody to be you know with the mesjestic is just one of those just total bombs right like it's a Christmas movie awards potential the director of the Shawshank redemption critics are like no audiences are like no like it was just the

[01:37:41] complete complete rejection he slinks off he comes back with Bruce Omides the same move as Liar Liar he's like I'm gonna come back high fit high concept comedy you're gonna love it like right like we're just gonna be with Tom Shadyak I'm gonna just do

[01:37:55] another Tom Shadyak movie but then he does have eternal sunshine the year after which is his best performance so great yeah yeah but I feel like I feel like Gondry has talked about that he like went to Peter Weir and he went

[01:38:13] to Darabont and he went to all the directors who worked with him and are like tell me all the tricks I mean his whole thing was he said the reason he cast Jim Carrey was based on how lonely and uncomfortable he looked at the end of every episode

[01:38:27] of in living color when they would all come on stage for the good nights and he was like that's the performance I wanted him to give and you gotta give Carrey full credit he's brilliant in that movie but it also feels like

[01:38:39] the fact that he's never been able to give a performance like that again speaks to Gondry somehow teasing it out of him that's the thing what I'm trying to say here I guess is it's ten years from Ace Ventura to eternal sunshine and yes you have a couple

[01:38:53] bombs in there but that is a pretty solid block of work dramatically and comedically and then yes he still like squeaks out hits with like fun with Dick and Jane and Yes Man and a Christmas Carol right like you know he pops up with the penguins

[01:39:09] but like the life is out of his eyes yes it's just like he's just not very fun anymore like I remember Yes Man being that's probably the most watchable of them because like I don't know it's a Peyton Reed movie like Zoe Deschanel's

[01:39:23] people are kind of like working in the margins on that one but I couldn't tell you a thing that happens in it no that's also one of those wild movies where they were like trying to develop a new model to keep budgets of comedies down so rather

[01:39:39] than getting twenty or twenty five million dollars upfront he took zero upfront salary for thirty percent of the first dollar gross thirty six percent he got a lot of the gross he made a lot of fucking money on that movie but yes it's never quite the same

[01:39:55] and I feel like the last decade he's done a lot of weird more like supporting parts I mean things like kick ass two and Burt Wonderstone when he's in a comedy he's sort of like playing like the color character right and then when he does something like

[01:40:09] Mr. Popper's penguins it feels like there's a gun to his head I also just like you know I always to his head there are many penguins to his head holding guns I'll say this I've never seen Dumb and Dumber 2 I have no idea

[01:40:23] if he's like locked in that one at all I tapped out after like fifteen minutes on HBO go I was not I was not able to stick with it I feel like there was excitement around that both like the Fairleys and him returning to form and then

[01:40:39] it did well and just no one ever talked about it ever again but what I was gonna say is I always like try to collect stories when I when I work as an actor from like other actors and especially from film and TV crews

[01:40:55] because you can get really good gossip other actors there unless looking for like a savory personal life stuff and more just like I'm curious about what people are like work wise and Kerry is one of those people where you just hear the most disastrous demented stories

[01:41:11] where he is just absolutely like a guy who's been so famous for so long and got famous for being unrainable you know that he just does whatever the fuck he feels like doing it at any given moment and I'm not talking around like dark fucked up shit

[01:41:29] it's just like the stories are so bizarre where they're like talking to like a grip who's like yeah I worked on Mr. Poppa's penguins we were shooting in this guy's like 15 million dollar Central Park West department the last day of filming he asked me for a sharpie pen

[01:41:45] and then he drew a giant self portrait of himself on their living room wall and signed it and said man they owe me 20 million for that one and he just like in another reality by all accounts he's in another reality

[01:42:02] and functions in that way where he is like I am doing a mitzvah to these people by defacing the wall of their living room with a drawing of myself I want to say I because of his background in sketch comedy and TV comedy his big breakthrough role

[01:42:16] was this sitcom called the duck factory that got cancelled after 13 episodes but it was like supposed to make him a star so he has a lot of experience with TV comedy I was actually looking forward to him as Joe Biden on Saturday Night Live and that was

[01:42:28] a disaster it was a train wreck the worst thing that has ever happened and like I too is like because it like remember the buzz on that was like well Carrie really wants to do it and he asked Lorne and he has a take and I'm like

[01:42:42] okay like sure if he did Carrie thinks he want you know and then he just committed he's ready to move to New York he just did fire marshal bill like there was just nothing going on like it was so weird after all that hype the thing

[01:42:56] that was so insanely damning about it was that Alec Baldwin looked like fucking the groucho marks up there next to him out of all of them suddenly I was like well out of all of them actually locked in his truck this is good stuff like yes it was

[01:43:10] insane like album was hitting his lines I was kind of a muse like and then you switch back to Biden he's like yeah what are we gonna do suckers and he's like you know shooting a finger like I didn't like have Joe Biden is you could

[01:43:26] satirize the man there are takes on him there's stuff there's stuff there fucking he was the onions best comedic character for eight years thing three other guys have played him well on SNL I would be I was just a big fan of the

[01:43:42] Woody Harrell so what big fan is strong because anything political on SNL these days is pretty weak sauce but like I Woody Harrelson had a take he had a look it was kind of funny like you know that was working for

[01:43:56] me I know he's like busy or whatever speaking of Kerry where does the number 23 fall in because that's a that's a fucked up movie that's a couple years before this right right I think so number 23 is 2007 like after Eternal Sunshine he also has

[01:44:12] a series of unfortunate events the same year and then he has fun with Dick and Jane which is one of those movies I think that had been shot a while ago you know like that one sat on the shelf for a year I think it was more that

[01:44:24] they kept shooting it for over a year that was a movie that never was finished and they kept going back for more and more reissues yeah but but like so if you basically sort of think of it is like he kind of takes a three year break almost

[01:44:38] and then the number 23 comes out and it's like what you know like wait is he into this like that was the thing it's it's a horrible movie yeah anyway like it's a stupid bad movie but there was also that kind of vibe of like

[01:44:52] this feels like something Jim Kerry maybe believes that there's some magic to the number 23 am I misremembering is that another shoemaker yes that's a shoemaker you gotta do him you gotta do shoemaker do we gotta do shoemaker I mean the number 23 though

[01:45:10] this was I just remember the other thing I wanted to bring up because I was looking up photos from the press tour for this movie one of the photos I had is my background my virtual background before I shifted it to adult Gary oldman sitting on adult

[01:45:28] Jim Carrey's shoulder to do the mocap but I found this photo of him and Zemeckis they did some weird Amtrak cross promotion train tour for this movie because I think they were trying to post off right big Amtrak tie-in I don't know why because of polar express

[01:45:44] but there's this picture for the press conference where he's like vomiting up tinsel or whatever but Kerry had this look through the entire press tour where his hair was like fairly long he has a really big beard and then he would wear a lot

[01:45:58] of loose layers like he would wear like a button down shirt and then like another jacket and then a blazer and then overcoat and it was like very odd how it was a very consistent look and it was kind of dressed down for how many

[01:46:12] promotional appearances he had to make for this movie and then it became clear oh he signed on to do the three Stooges a thing that I think people forget he was supposed to be in the Fairly Brothers three Stooges where it was supposed to be Sean Penn

[01:46:28] Benicio del Toro Benicio del Toro as Mo Sean Penn as Larry and Jim Carrey as Curly and it was a big announcement like he's re-timming with the Fairly Brothers Jim Carrey is going to gain a hundred pounds to play Curly and this was

[01:46:44] the period where he was trying to bulk up so he started dressing in this way where you couldn't see his body and grew out the beard so you couldn't see his face and then like a month after this he goes

[01:46:56] to the Fairly Brothers and he's like I can't do it I can't gain the weight I don't look right and then just loses it all and like shapes and looks wrong and he says he gained 40 pounds and wanted to gain another 40 and realized like he couldn't hack it

[01:47:12] whatever you must have been in his late 40s early it was rough on him I wouldn't recommend gaining 80 pounds to play Curly in a three Stooges movie He was pretty good on the showtime show Kidding which is not a great show but like he was solid in it

[01:47:30] he's got it he still got it I think he did that show I think he was good He was good he was interesting that show bothered me because he was supposed to be playing a Mr. Rogers type figure like a beloved and Jim Carrey

[01:47:50] just doesn't have that energy like and especially not in this show that's kind of weird and a little showtimey right but yes he was compelling and he is compelling as Dr. Ivo Robotnik in Sonic the Hedgehog it's not like he doesn't have magic to him

[01:48:12] although I will say in a Christmas Carol he does not because the CGI removes it I'm looking at the last decade in particular right and I would wager that his best performance of the 2010s was as Leap Dave Williams in 30 he is fantastic I have like immense nostalgia

[01:48:36] for the high concept Jim Carrey comedy even though I haven't seen all of them if he came out and he was like I play him doing a movie where I have a guy who has a Tourette syndrome but for compliments like I'd be like yes I'm there

[01:48:50] I'm a guy who fucked a dog and I became a cat like I would see that four times you know they would do that though that's kind of what Mr. Poppers penguins is and you're like ah shit this sucks now but like I threw on Liar Liar recently

[01:49:02] you know or whatever I stumbled on it and when Jim Carrey is being when he can't lie it's great Liar Liar rules there is a solid hour of like marriage dramedy stuff in it that you're just kind of like okay Jesus let's keep it moving you know

[01:49:22] he has a kid, he has more a tyranny when he can't lie that's great and maybe he should do Liar Liar too I don't know he can't lie Liar Liar is like his big it's his crossover from the comedy audience to like

[01:49:38] the broader audience where you could imagine him have gotten an Oscar nomination for that somehow it wouldn't have happened but like you know you could see it and then like he's supposed to become Hank's in other ways and there's just something about his personality

[01:49:50] that won't fill that space and he's just putting about it right I think it is whatever that manic chaotic strain he has is that makes him engaging as a comedic performer it doesn't it makes it hard to accept him as an everyman and

[01:50:08] Truman Show is such a weird take on the idea of him being an everyman figure because he's like a bottled sort of like a bespoke everyman created in a social experiment and then Eternal Sunshine who's like sapped of personality like he's like pointedly playing an incredibly boring

[01:50:26] emotionally and expressive man in that movie can I point out I like him a lot and I love you Philip Morris people like that movie I like that movie I think he's very good and that felt like that was maybe you know a glimpse

[01:50:45] into where he could go for the next decade and then he didn't really tap into that potential at all in terms of straight comedy I think the best one is Bert Wunderstone not as a movie but he's good in that I also have not seen

[01:50:57] that movie because it is against the law to see that movie I served my time I served my time that movie had it is illegal to see this movie Buzz and Box Office that's the only way to explain there are federal laws in place one of my dream

[01:51:15] one of my things like David will understand this I'm thinking about movies that people could make because we used to take part in like a weird online game where that would be like a thing fantasy casting one of my dreams is

[01:51:29] Paul Thomas Anderson making a movie about a week in the life of the Lawrence Welk show because that show was so like fucked up behind the scenes and I was like but who do you have play Welk? Jim Carrey would make a good Lawrence Welk anyway

[01:51:41] that's a very strange reference that people will be excited to hear great great pitch I put it on the blank check picture slate along with keeping up with the clauses which is now the first project under a blank check television that reminds me

[01:51:59] the other thing we're not talking about was that for so long there was the looming specter of the Christopher Nolan Jim Carrey Howard Hughes movie I wonder what that is I wonder what that looks like I'm kind of glad that never happened but in a certain way

[01:52:17] Howard Hughes is a good fit for Carrey 100% yes creepy reclusive strange intense it's just that we've done a lot of Howard Hughes at this point but yes no in theory that's an interesting project when was that supposed to I guess it was like at several points in time

[01:52:39] late 2000s especially that sort of coming together what happened early 2000s Aviator got to the runway first then he almost revived it and then people thought is that like he kind of just put a lot of that stuff into Dark Night Prizes weirdly

[01:52:57] he like cannibalized his Howard Hughes script into the third Batman movie I've been thinking a lot about how Will Ferrell's kind of a Will Ferrell's kind of at this point where he is sort of where Bill Murray was pre-Rushmore and like he needs to like an indie filmmaker

[01:53:13] like I saw somebody suggest on Twitter that Ari Oster would have a great time working with Will Ferrell and like I would love to see that like I think like people kept thinking that was going to happen with Jim Carrey he was going to hook up

[01:53:27] with an exciting young indie filmmaker revitalize his career go to supporting and he just never did like Eternal Sunshine is the closest he got I mean then there's things like him being in like the bad batch he's kind of fun in the bad batch that movie stinks

[01:53:43] right and he did that weird fucking movie Dark Crimes had not seen Dark Crimes it takes a dark mind to solve a twisted crime is the tagline what if there were Dark Crimes I mean they dare to ask the question but I think it is harder to crystallize

[01:54:01] what his persona is that you can subvert into a more serious minded movie Emily in the way that it was like so clear what like if you take the Bill Murray thing and you put him in a more serious context the overwhelming loneliness of this guy

[01:54:17] becomes very poignant you know and I think Ferrell has those reserves in him that no one's really figured out how to properly use yet Carrey is like best when he's doing sort of just maximalism when like what you're watching him for is just doing everything

[01:54:37] it's one of the reasons why this movie is so upsetting because it's the one time that he's seemingly holding back when there should be nothing keeping him in place I want to hear your sort of big Zemakus take before we play the box office game right

[01:54:53] I feel like we just need to hear this and then flesh talk it out I was thinking about this because when we were talking about the rich little Christmas Carol I was like well why didn't you know

[01:55:03] at this point in time why not just get Robin Williams have him play every part have him do like a celebrity impression for every part and would just be like disaster but you know it would be more fun than this movie maybe like WC Fields is Scrooge

[01:55:15] no one's ever done that watching this movie I was struck by Zemakus's adaptation choices to play up at every turn the anti-capitalism message of a Christmas Carol in a way that usually does not get pulled into American adaptations of this story it's usually like Scrooge

[01:55:35] just needs to be nicer and give more to charity right he's too mean yeah Zemakus is I think watching it at this moment in history I was like oh my god this is like playing up the aspects of Dick and Story that are

[01:55:47] like you know what we are only as good as the weakest people in society and we should work together to build something that doesn't give too many people too much money and doesn't give too many people too little money and the stuff that Zemakus

[01:55:59] keeps from the book because he cuts quite a few things for all the hype that this got about you know this is a faithful adaptation the stuff he keeps is all stuff like wanton ignorance it's all stuff like you know really playing up

[01:56:11] how Scrooge has lots of money and other people have no money and the you know the orphans and the collecting for the poor and all of this stuff and that made me think one of the things that has followed Robert Zemakus around his entire career is he fundamentally

[01:56:25] a conservative filmmaker in political sense or is he someone who's kind of satirizing that viewpoint taking the piss out of that the gump question I think at Christmas Carol proves that he is indeed fairly I don't think he's like as far left as

[01:56:41] like George Lucas but I think he's a fairly left leaning filmmaker who really does kind of hate the capitalist system that has made him rich it is a thing I have been wrestling with these many months and the months ahead of us where like

[01:56:55] you know it's not months ahead it's month this month ahead of us I was watching his early short films are on like the criteria and disc for I Want to Hold Your Hand and there are the films that he showed to Spielberg that got Spielberg on board

[01:57:11] being his mentor setting him up with films and the whole thing he liked about him was he was like this guy is anarchic like he makes these really radical angry political comedies he just likes chaos and it does feel like there's a much clearer satirical edge

[01:57:27] to his movies early on that starts to fade away and I think he starts to get pegged as being this very kind of like sappy populist sort of like sentimental mainstream guy but he is clearly a very angry filmmaker like most of his movies seem driven by contempt

[01:57:45] of something and then perhaps regrets about where that anger led you know but they all have that sort of thing to it and we talk a lot about him being like kind of the ultimate boomer filmmaker but he also seems

[01:57:59] to be a guy who has a lot of hatred for everything the boomers wrought in society yeah I mean not to re-litigate Forrest Gump but I that's that movie that movie is about I am a boomer I love boomers I fucking hate myself

[01:58:15] I hate everything that I've done you know that's the conflict that makes that movie kind of difficult to untangle right and like I found this quote that I read in the contact episode about how he was raised super Catholic and then became super uh

[01:58:31] atheistic and then has spent like the later years trying to sort of untangle his earlier um rebellion and find some sort of middle ground between the two and he also falls in this category and it's like two narratives that come up a lot

[01:58:47] in this podcast because of the kind of careers that we cover one is filmmaker discovers some kind of technological breakthrough and becomes obsessed with pushing this boulder up a hill quote-unquote for the next generation of filmmakers right this weird sort of like in the same way

[01:59:05] that Engley has done with the high frame rate stuff so mech is at this time was always framing it as like I don't care if people don't like these movies I'm doing this for the next generation of filmmakers I'm doing all the

[01:59:15] R&D for the next generation to have these tools to play with there's that thing and then there's also the thing of I hate what all the film trends I started have wrought in yes very much so like he seems to have that grumpy yes right

[01:59:33] you know Spielberg and Lucas you know all these guys where they're just like look at all these movies now there's all bullshit right it's it's an odd choice in that way to make a Christmas Carol that is at this point in time

[01:59:49] in his career to make a Christmas Carol that is so devoid of joy of humor and is trying its hardest if unsuccessfully to forefront the sort of regret and the the literal horror of the story right but if you view this as Robert Zemeckis

[02:00:11] being like I am Scrooge and I ruined the world like I think that that is I think that that's a take you know I think that he is really tapped into this idea of like we need to like build something better and like this movie becomes like kind

[02:00:25] of his waterloo in that regard and then he goes off and starts making like weird little kind of personal kind of not movies and you know and welcome to Marwin ends with Steve Grel turning to camera and saying eat the rich like you know it's it's it's the

[02:00:39] Marwin's crazy this movie is just so fucking boring my final thought I'll say is like Tintin comes two years after this is the final gas I've said this before but like I think so much of the success of Tintin is they find the exact right distance

[02:00:55] to push it into abstraction so they overcome the uncanny value of being like these are proportions that no human being has this is not what if the architecture of a face looks like we're still going for a tactile quality in the animation and the realism in the

[02:01:11] performances but we're not trying to replicate the way these actors faces look in that kind of way and they go a little bit into that with like I mean obviously the stretching out of Kerry's limbs in this and his nose and his chin but even like

[02:01:25] you look at the ghost of Christmas past and it's just straight up Jim Kerry's face in a flame right you look at the ghost of Christmas present and it's straight up just like it looks like Jim Kerry doing the promotional rounds for

[02:01:37] the movie trying to bulk up to play Curly and then the ghost of Christmas at Tacom is just apparently him most captured performing the silhouette of a road pointing at shit but there's that he point there's the opening transition of the movie I guess after the opening

[02:01:57] credits Zemeckis flying over the city scape shit where it goes from the book or does that come first where it goes from the book you look at the book and then it goes into the city and then it says Jim Kerry over footage of him wandering around

[02:02:11] but there's that transition where it goes from the illustration in the page of the book yes it says like to Griffin right and then the illustration becomes 3d and then slowly the illustration transitions into this totally horrifying looking Bob Marley corpse yes

[02:02:31] Jacob Marley what am I saying Bob Marley I wish Bob Marley was in this movie I wish that had been his choice I'm doing a Christmas Carol but the ghost of Bob Marley is playing every character I bought the rights from the Marley estate

[02:02:45] but I had this immediate thought of just like oh that was immediately more visually appealing than anything I've seen in any of these mocap movies he was so weirdly committed to trying to bridge this gap between like it's not animation it's not live action

[02:02:59] has the qualities of both like look it's not going to fix the energy problems this movie has but if this movie were done with like three dimensional illustrations in that way yes I agree with this completely it would have some fucking feeling to it you're like

[02:03:17] what you were saying about the Richard Williams version being the best one it's like make it look like the fucking woodcuts from the book or something yeah and that apparently was like their goal which this looks nothing like yeah it's uh

[02:03:31] I have seen so many Christmas Carol adaptations I've seen so many that are worse than this one by several degrees this is the one I least want to watch again like it's so also when Bob Cratchit turns toward camera and starts talking to it and reciting the famous

[02:03:45] end of the book it's terrifying it's terrifying the whole thing sucks speed round some other things that suck the entire ghost of chris's present sequence happens from one room he just turns the floor into like a viewfinder so that they can look at other things happening

[02:03:59] like it's some weird theme park ride the feziwig sequence when she turns into hot chocolate and the main money shot of it is a woman twirling too hard and briefly becoming a helicopter through her skirt yeah the one thing that I think really

[02:04:19] does succeed in capturing the book again is tiny scrooge I'm glad it's in there and I'm glad that Dickens vision was realized finally just just dancing on top that bottle little screwy it's always funny when the high pitch the pitch up it's always good

[02:04:35] I did point out this is one of his only soul screenwriting credits and I was like yeah but it's like he pretty much just copy pasted the book and then added in long screen descriptions of what when he shoo-horned in chase sequences that must have ended with

[02:04:49] I promise you this is gonna look really cool yes exactly well also I guess I mean Marley chain legend I guess we should just shout that out oh yeah I mean the chain work is pretty good you know they're green that's cool they're translucent you know Dickens really

[02:05:11] invented something pretty magical which is that ghosts carry around chains and I've taken that and incorporated it into my fashion so you know I'll have wearable chains with my line that's coming out next year so look forward to that do you look forward

[02:05:29] to being a ghost because they'll just like give you some chains absolutely yeah I assume that they you go and you get their chains and then they assign you a place to haunt yeah St. Peter's like how many chains Mr. Hosley and you're like all of them

[02:05:49] it's like checking in on election day you go to the little desk and they're like Hosley Hosley with an S or Z you go S and they go great here are your chains we have to play the box office game this is one of the crazier box

[02:06:03] office games that I can remember it's three it's three movies where you're just like holy shit number one though is this is November 6 2009 number one is a Christmas Carol opening to $30 million not great not okay you know what are you gonna do it ends up at 130

[02:06:21] it ends up making 137 domestic one seventy seven international three fifteen worldwide okay but you know like 200 million dollars yeah and it costs a ton to market and polar express made more than that do you know five years earlier so like this just

[02:06:43] not what you want to see and this thing has certainly had zero shelf life zero that's the other thing that is not linger does not become a classic alright number two though okay okay concert movie has made $57 million Michael Jackson this is it Michael Jackson

[02:07:05] this is it who could forget the Michael Jackson had recently died yeah in this movie came out and so they rushed it this is it the it's not even a concert movie right it's like a preparing for a concert movie it is it's not

[02:07:21] even a documentary it's like it's got the shape of a concert film but it's put together from footage of him rehearsing a concert he never got to do because he died so weird have never seen huge hit so 60 million dollars worldwide is it the whole

[02:07:39] it's like the biggest concert movie of all time it might be probably like what would its competition be I just remember there being like Sony bought it for so much money and deadline was doing these breathless pieces where they were like no one knows how much

[02:07:53] this is gonna make is it gonna make 500 million dollars like there was just this feeling of like and then people saw it and they were like oh it's really just watching rehearsal footage like it's very unexciting there's a part where because I love such a big Jackson 5

[02:08:09] fan and there's a part where he goes into doing a medley of all the Jackson 5 songs I start getting so amped and like 30 seconds into it he goes like hey can we stop I'm just like out of breath and you're like oh well this sucks because I didn't

[02:08:25] see the thing I wanted to see and also this is more depressing now my uh I was just gonna say my primary memory of Michael Jackson's death is that he died while I was visiting my old German grandmother and we went out to watch

[02:08:39] fireworks on the 4th of July and people were playing Michael Jackson songs and I was not aware that my German grandmother knew about Michael Jackson's death but she turned to me and said he's dead no very sad and then she went back and got in the car

[02:08:53] because she didn't care about watching fireworks wow I mean no lies detected it's true I was in Paris when Michael Jackson died and I was probably just people running down the streets holding bottles of wine and beer screaming Michael Jackson Elay more Elay more

[02:09:15] I just remember all night as I went to different neighborhoods it was a constant throughout the city number 3 at the box office it's new this week it's opening to 12 million dollars how to sure yes how to describe I I guess like a dark comedy dark comedy opens to 12

[02:09:39] I feel like just saying the title is just a great movie that does not exist it's a great filler title for any movie that does not exist big cast big cast it's not holiday themed at all is it no it's not holiday themed it has a funny billing

[02:10:01] funny billing where there's someone's getting the and credit but it's not an actor someone is getting the and credit but it's not an actor not an actor not an actor it's like actor actor actor actor and a doc you're close okay so is it is the and

[02:10:29] the name of a proper character or is it like a thing it's an animal it's an animal and is the movie kind of like centered around the animal well no but like it's in the title this animal is in the title I've never

[02:10:49] seen this movie I've never seen this movie and I love the star of it I love most of the actors in this movie one canceled actor in this movie but you know a lot of good actors I almost find it unlikely that I haven't

[02:11:03] seen this movie so is this like a I don't know that you've seen this movie is this is the is the canceled actor Kevin Spacey the canceled actor is Kevin Spacey hmm it's a Kevin Spacey dark he's fourth build he's fourth build yeah it's not nine lives

[02:11:25] he's build one position ahead of an animal was he in an airbud yeah it's an airbud no come on come on it's a serious movie it debuted at the Venice Film Festival it's got huge stars in it it does not exist it cannot exist I saw this 50 times

[02:11:47] no it's like a comedy but it's like it's like a dark satirical comedy for grownups wow Spacey an animal can you give me the animal kingdom it's part of it it's a hooved animal I don't know it's a horse movie no it no it's not a horse

[02:12:07] is it is it cow movie not a cow not a horse but you know another farm animal now this is getting fun now this is just an animal guessing game no it's not a sheep is it a moose mooses are off a pig did I hear goat

[02:12:29] goat oh is this the men who stare at goats the men who stare at goats no goats no gory it's Clooney bridges who's the one person I'm forgetting Spacey and a goat Kevin Spacey and goat in the men who stare at goats a Grant Heslaw film

[02:12:53] you're right that movie cannot exist I met Grant Heslaw once seemed like a really nice guy obviously George Clooney's writing partner when that movie was out I doubt it existed like yes right it's a I guess an anti-war comedy about CIA or like US Army psychological experiments

[02:13:17] where they're trying to make psychic spies I've never seen it I only remember the trailer and it's like a guy running into a wall or whatever right you know it's like shit like that I have no idea what it's about I mean people you know like

[02:13:31] Truman Show syndrome is a serious thing I feel like there have been psychological studies of generations of people post Truman show grow up with the fear that their life is actually just some fictional reality that I don't want anyone else to watch and I felt that way anytime

[02:13:47] I walked by a men who stare at goats posted on the street because it was like this is lazy set dressing for a movie that cannot come up with a fake movie to exist in its universe the men who stare at goats they stare alright the fourth movie

[02:14:05] is a sci-fi horror film sci-fi horror film 2009 would you say more sci-fi more horror more sci-fi just one of those cheap ass sci-fi horror movies that probably made a profit no one ever remembers it's not the Dennis Quaid Ben Foster one is it

[02:14:29] no I believe what's that called Elysium is no wait no but it's something like Elysium it's not Elysium that's the Matt Damon thing what the fuck it doesn't matter anyway it's not that it's just a cheap ass horror movie it stars Mila Javovich oh fuck it's got a

[02:14:49] cutesy sci-fi name yeah you know it's like a play on a concept we would be dimly aware of it's a sci-fi concept it's not ultraviolet no this is gonna be tough you guys are not gonna get this no I think I gotta put it at my meal is

[02:15:10] you got it you're gonna tap out do you have a guess Emily you look like you almost had a thought I had I remember the poster for this movie but I do not remember the title describe the poster to me Emily give me the poster oh my god

[02:15:22] it's uh fuck it's uh maybe I don't remember the poster I think I'm remembering a Resident Evil poster shit Mila Javovich down on the poster to be clear oh she's not okay well there we go the poster is someone being

[02:15:34] lifted out of their bed as if by an alien oh oh oh it's uh it's not it's called the fourth kind the fourth kind the fourth kind what if there was a fourth kind it's an alien abduction movie right I believe so

[02:15:50] yeah the second you said being lifted I was like okay yeah that uh that's that I that's either the fourth kind or that one from like a few years later with Kerry Russell that I don't remember the name of anymore dark skies dark skies

[02:16:02] dark skies I think because a close encounter of the third kind is where you meet an alien but a close encounter of the fourth time is where an alien abducts you from your bed anyway from your bed when you're sleeping

[02:16:16] you remember that found footage movie set on the moon what the fuck was that Emily what's that movie called Apollo what's the found footage Apollo 18 I believe it's a it's a later yes right yes Apollo 18 uh we have what if

[02:16:30] what if we went to the moon and there was a camera okay speaking of found footage movies what is number five at the box office it's made $97 million in seven weeks paranormal activity a little film called paranormal activity that rules love paranormal activity yeah

[02:16:50] one is so good two is okay three is the best never saw the other ones I've only seen one in three but I agree that three rules three is so good three is amazing yeah three rules I should watch the other ones why not

[02:17:06] that is the box office for this time we've also got opening at number six one of my favorite movies of 2009 Richard Kelly's The Box which we will one day do on this podcast which I love so much you got couples retreat what if there was a couples retreat

[02:17:22] got law abiding citizen another law abiding citizen another one but like both of those big hits like couples are hits Vince Vaughn just snooze in his way to 100 mil domestic it's true Vince Vaughn is like he yeah he's like resentful that he's in that movie it's so weird

[02:17:42] yeah he's like what the fuck is this what you want yeah it feels like a parody of an Adam Sandler premise right right it's like we gotta go to Hawaii why for some kind of like couples retreat I don't know my hot wife hates me or something

[02:18:00] I like Vince Vaughn has found his Wes Anderson and it's S Craig Zoller like that's I gotta say Vaughn pretty good in freaky I gave him a good review for freaky gave him good notices he's been doing good work he's good in hacksaw rich he's good in

[02:18:16] fighting with my family he's leaning into the right things right now the thing about freaky is he's funny in it obviously because he's playing a teenage girl for most of it's a body swat movie but he plays a serial killer and you're like yeah Vince Vaughn

[02:18:30] of course like that's good casting he's creepy and scary and then when he's being funny you're like oh right I forgot that he was like a comedy star for 15 years for something he has that muscle A list comedy star yeah what a weird career

[02:18:46] but you want to talk about a great career Emily Vanderwerf one of the best writers out there one of our best guests one of our favorite people I want to ask you because you're never going to do a Christmas Carol again

[02:18:58] because no other great directors have done a Christmas Carol who's your director you'd like to see do Christmas Carol just just lightning round because I have an answer I have just to make Griffin happy oh god I got to hear the answer to make Griffin happy

[02:19:12] yeah do a Christmas Carol that's a good question I mean I didn't watch the Fx Dark Scrooge who fucks right but I am into the idea of someone doing a harder edged Christmas Carol like that not an edged Lord Christmas Carol but like the thing this movie

[02:19:30] occasionally toys with just like what if you made it really fucking dark you know I don't want anyone to do it but yeah it'd be fun if Mike Flanagan did a ghost story movie you know what I mean like if someone leaned more into the horror like

[02:19:46] if you did like a nasty like one million horror haunted house Scrooge movie yeah I don't know what's your answer Amoe Gendi Tartakovsky oh well well that would be fun okay so that's a great pick my pick was gonna be like the first thing

[02:20:04] that came to mind for me was like Paul King does a big family Scrooge musical right like Joe Cornish like you know British guys with a good sense of comedy and visuals and you know yeah yeah but I'm also like I feel like I'm up a Christmas Carol

[02:20:22] scratches that itch for me it's a great Christmas Carol musical with a great performance at the center a lot of good comedy now I like the idea of Gendi just going fucking full tune on this thing yeah and he's a guy blobby yeah

[02:20:38] blobby could be the ghost of Christmas future you know the thing about this is there's all these franchises that are like we're gonna do Christmas Carol we got these recognizable characters Hotel Transylvania Christmas Carol would work Emily that's such a good idea that's such a good idea

[02:20:54] I mean drag is kind of a Scrooge sometimes yeah you know an HT4 if you're gonna keep it going your mind as well just start being like yeah I don't know we'll do a Christmas Carol what's another like template you could shove it into Hotel Transylvania Treasure Island

[02:21:08] yeah just do them all right we make them the new Muppets Emily is there anything specific you want to plug aside from the fact that people should just be following all of your work in general because it's always worth following

[02:21:22] you can find me yeah you can find me on twitter at twitter.com slash Emily VDW I am on Vox all the time my newsletter is called episodes and as you listen to this the ultimate episode of the second season of my scripted fiction podcast

[02:21:36] Arden is dropping tomorrow so check that out we have gotten awards nominations that means we're good highly recommended and not so competitive but I want you to remember how this episode started and recognize that we might be nipping at your heels in the awards categories next year

[02:21:52] Peabody's coming I remember I've got my comedy points coin I'm gonna have a Peabody medal wow can you imagine oh I've noted it I wrote down apply for Peabody but I've chewed this up in the polar express episode I gotta promote the untitled slow Christmas album

[02:22:16] that I've put together it's a slow Christmas album Ben thinks that Christmas music isn't slow enough so he's releasing an album this is for real that's gonna drop this week as you're listening to this the link will be in the show notes please you know it's free

[02:22:34] I'm gonna listen and enjoy I just can't believe that's real that was the best Christmas music I've ever heard Ben you've created a holiday classic thank you Emily I really appreciate someone who loves Christmas that I take that in high regard this thing is gonna be huge

[02:22:50] it's gonna get much bigger than a podcast it's gonna be like it's gonna be like the Buster Point Dexter to our New York dolls it's gonna be like the Buster Point Dexter dolls great reference graph I love it thank you all for listening please remember to subscribe

[02:23:14] we're claiming our theme song go to Blanks.Red.com for some real nerdy shit go to patreon.com slash Blank Check where we're finishing off the alien franchise Blank Check special features tune in next week for a flight we're gonna roll it and as always

[02:23:33] on the 12th day of Christmas my true love sent to me 12 podcast potting 11 potters pipe potting 10 Lord Pods a potting 4 pots Pods potting 8 Pods a potting 7 Pods a potting 6 Pods a potting come on sing it with me now 5 Pods Pods 4 potting Pods 3 pot Pods 2 potcast Doves and

[02:24:17] a pot Pods Pods in a pot 3 pot 3 pot 3 pot That's a P-Body winner