A Master Builder with John Hodgman

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Come in to the podcast! Just play the clip out of your phone right now.

[00:00:27] This movie has no quick page, no tagline. This is the thing that I found funniest in the entire movie. I filmed it and sent it to David. It's also the clip starts with him seemingly looking straight at the lens as if waiting for Demi to give him action.

[00:00:44] Right. And then he refocuses his energy towards the door. Well, yeah. And that's when the energy of the movie flips entirely on purpose. Yes. So look, we're not going to preserve the quote-unquote reveal. Spoilers. Spoilers. He's dying the whole movie and it's a fever dream.

[00:01:02] It was all a dream. It was all a dream. We're spoiling it right away. I apologize to all the people who have not yet watched The Master Builder. Which is all of the people? Yes.

[00:01:11] I believe if you read like the book, the criterion book, but it spoils it. Yeah. I mean it's in there. By Michael Srego. Correct. Yeah, I saw Srego's byline. I saw Srego on the street, called him out. I used to write for the Boston Phoenix.

[00:01:26] And I read him then when I was growing up. Sure. And Brookline Mass. Brookline Mass, Massachusetts. Where in the hat? You're wearing the hat right now. I used to write for the Boston Phoenix. I'm wearing the hat of a different town that looks like Brookline. Oh really? Yeah.

[00:01:38] Did you know that that I used to write for the Boston Phoenix? I had a summer internship at the Boston Phoenix in 2005. So where are we? Were you on The Master Builder beat or what were you mostly?

[00:01:46] It was just, I mean it was nine years before the movie was coming out. I mean people were talking about it. I mean it was camped outside on Denver. Will Demi and Sean and Gregory ever get to make their passion proge? Right.

[00:02:02] I mean Sean of course was constantly being spotted on top of buildings, walking around, getting ready for the role. I'm climbing to the pyre! What does he say? I don't know. Alright to the top! Right to the top.

[00:02:13] As if I remember anything from this movie I watched last night. David and I had the exact same response. We were almost texting it to each other at the exact same time while watching this movie. We were pretty much watching it in unison.

[00:02:25] Over text checking in with each other. And we were like how is it possible? We were in unison because I caught up with you because you had to keep pausing it from boredom. I started watching it. No offense to a Master Builder. Some offense.

[00:02:35] Spoiler, this movie's very boring. I started watching it an hour and a half before David and he caught up to me. Because good for that you just had to keep going to like make a pot of tea or whatever just like whatever's gonna get me through this?

[00:02:47] I said well no this is not the answer. Do another line. By 30 minutes we were caught up with each other. No the honest answer was I kept on pausing every two minutes to read more articles about how the Playmobil movie got financed.

[00:03:01] We're definitely gonna have a good 20 minutes on the Playmobil movie. There's a lot you probably don't know. David and I have always been so deep into this. You know the toys Playmobil. I'm assuming that's probably where your knowledge ends. That there are toys Playmobil.

[00:03:19] This is the real beat David and I have been on. We've been doing some research and this episode's gonna be a hard-hitting journalism breaking down the Playmobil movie. Playmobil was the weird European surreal version of MiniFix, of Lego MiniFix. Right because there was a very stra- yes.

[00:03:34] And there's some strange play sets. Yeah well cause a lot of look we're gonna get to the Playmobil movie. It's gonna take up at least 40 minutes. Wow we just doubled it. The prediction of time it's taking up.

[00:03:46] Can we set a strict time limit about how long we're gonna talk about the Master Builder. Okay so the listeners can just skip it. Six minutes. I can find it in the timeline. Let's cap it at two. Sorry. All Master Builder. That's right it's all Master Builder.

[00:04:02] But what a difference an A makes. That's how the Criterion Essay begins. I've really read that Criterion Essay right now. That is the opening line is what a difference an A makes. Look he's trying to write. Cause that's I was like who was handed the unfortunate.

[00:04:16] Obviously writing an Essay in a Criterion Collection booklet could be a nice little laurel you know for a critic. And it's like we'd love you to write about Jonathan Demme's Master Builder.

[00:04:25] There's something so apt to that because the play is a meditation on an older man realizing that his career is coming to an end. And life. And life as well. Spoiler alert. Right.

[00:04:39] But that's you know the you don't I mean that was pretty obvious at the beginning dude's gonna die. He's in a hospital bed. Spoiler alert. Well he's in a hospital bed. He's going to die. I spoiled a lot I didn't spoil that much. Come in.

[00:04:51] Like how apt is it like Michael Srego's like how will I know when my career as a critic is coming to an end. Right exactly. Ring ring. There's a knock on the door. Yeah. Come in. Come in. Hi it's us from criteria. Oh I'm still relevant thank you.

[00:05:10] Your assignment is a master builder. We want you to write the essay for Jonathan Demmes. You had me at Demme a master builder. Wait a second. What now? Let me climb up this fire and throw myself off. That's how Michael Srego died.

[00:05:25] Look look I always enjoyed his writing. I'm sure he's still a terrific writer. Plenty of good work ahead of him. The essay is more engaging than the film. Honestly yes. What was the line that you texted me from it? Oh he called it a lucid fantasia.

[00:05:40] That was like. The exact phrase that was rattling around in my old nog in the entire time I was writing. I was gripping the seats of my chair with such a fantasia. It's things dancing off the screen. Well I wanted to spoil the fact that. All right.

[00:05:56] You guys saw it yesterday. Yes. Right. I saw it this morning. So you're super fresh. I mean I considered rolling the dice on a morning viewing. I did too. But I decided to punch it out last night.

[00:06:08] My big thing was I thought like do I watch it now or do I wake up early and watch it tomorrow? And I was like if I wake up and watch this I will fall back asleep. That's one fear. I was my wife stayed home sick today.

[00:06:21] She teaches high school. Yes. Congratulations. Everyone's sick right now. I've got a little sniffles as well. Apologized well. And what a coincidence too because I know we've talked about this off mic but David's fiance of course is also a teacher.

[00:06:35] Forky, star of the new Disney series Forky asked a question in which Forky teaches the audience. He teaches the world about life and money. I never run out of parallels. I know. I know you never do. Between Forky and your real life fiance Forky.

[00:06:51] No I watched it this morning. I did not know this morning that my wife would be staying home sick. I did not know that I would have had the option to spend a day with my wife. Oh that you could have instead.

[00:07:06] I feel like anytime you're doing this podcast we are distracting you from your family more like more than usual. I think you keep pulling me back in. Yes we do. Come in. I want to say I apologize because we had you do the commentary for Infinity War recently.

[00:07:21] Why apologize? That was a great afternoon. Well thank you. We had a great time. It was a pleasure having you at Big Nice. My home. Griffin keeps inviting people to my home. Please come in. No but Infinity War is one of your favorite movies.

[00:07:41] We asked if he'd be on it and he said look I've already talked about another podcast. I failed to properly communicate to you that it was a commentary episode so you watched it the night before. Right. I didn't realize it was a talk-along.

[00:07:57] I feel bad that we made you watch a Master Builder again for this podcast because I assume you're watching it once twice a week. It's a holiday tradition. We're recording this now in December. It's the season. It's like after Charlie Brown Christmas. Oh a Master Builder.

[00:08:13] Die Hard we roll into a Master Builder. Bravo every Christmas does its 24 hours of Master Builder. I mean it was again also apt because like all right so first of all I'm angry because

[00:08:26] the first thing that comes up when I search a Master Builder is a reality show called Treehouse Masters which I would have liked to watch. Let's dig into the Wild World of Treehouse Building. Let's put that in the criterion collection. Instead I had to watch this.

[00:08:43] I had to watch this airless folly. Oh boy. A lot of Wallace Shaughns. God or whatever bless him. Yes. I mean nothing I'm going to say can be construed as saying anything against Wallace Shaughns except this is a terrible move.

[00:09:00] We're going to go so hard into the pain. I love Wallace Shaughns so much. I did too. For this movie which is like designed to offend no one, it was not crammed down anyone's throat.

[00:09:10] It's just them being like well we had our own take on an Ibsen play you know turn some digital cameras on it was four days of our life. Yeah but we rented an Airbnb in Nyack. This movie. There's nothing wrong with this except that nobody asked for it.

[00:09:27] And the problem, that is the problem that no one offered. Except for literally Andre Gregory. Yeah right and when offered no one said yes. But the problem is that we quote unquote had to watch this movie which I think made us feel mad.

[00:09:40] Because of the premise of your podcast. The premise of the podcast which of course is a podcast called Blamechek I'm Griffin David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. He's engaged to Forky and this is a podcast about filmography. He's directors who have massive success early on in their careers

[00:09:51] and given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they come in baby. Come in. I started giggling in the middle of that sentence. Because you knew where you were going. I had the idea.

[00:10:05] You could see that one down. Drunk with some finance for it. Down the long hallway. Yes. You would see that at the top of the spire. That was the wreath you were going to put at the top of the spire.

[00:10:14] I'm so glad this is just immediately obviously going to be one of our best episodes of the year. I'm glad that you're right. Considering what a flop this movie is. Well this is a major. He's on the phone. Jonathan Demi of course.

[00:10:25] It's called Stop Making Podcast and we are... It's his penultimate feature film. I mean it's very sad because he could have lived longer. He died in his early 70s. He was a master filmmaker. He was a master filmmaker and it's just a weird little bit of punctuation

[00:10:40] at the end of his career. He did this as a favor to Walsh on. No hundred purposes. We were saying this just before you walked in. He is one of the only directors with multiple favors in his film. Very magnanimous director. He's just like, sure.

[00:10:54] Of course I'd love to participate. Yeah why not? Rather than like, I am the man who will make the movie. He seems much more like, yeah. What are the other faves? I'm sorry if I've missed the mother. Beloved is very much...

[00:11:06] He has in interviews is like that was Oprah's movie where he was there to serve her like... You can't say nope to Oop. You can't say nope to Oop although... I think... Make it. Make the joke Davey. I'm sorry Oprah though. No what's the joke?

[00:11:22] You seemed like you were ran out of time to Oop. I think honestly swimming to Cambodia was something of a favor. That's more Spalding Grace project. Those are his people. The same spirit that made him such a good filmmaker of performance films. He's got three Neil Young documentaries.

[00:11:39] I'm sure he loves Neil Young but by the third do you think? No but that's like the same thing that made him make so many concert documentaries in the Spalding Gray movie and all this sort of stuff.

[00:11:49] I think he similarly said when someone has packaged a thing together and they're passionate about it and if I'm sort of aligned with the cause where I like the people I'm happy to extend my abilities and lend the hand and help take this thing to the finish line.

[00:12:04] In an interesting inversion of your podcast premise. Yes. His passion project is not a particular passion project. Is this passion for being a nice dude film and stuff that other people want to make? Yeah. And he's not too big to do it.

[00:12:16] And he's a passionate guy but I'd say the major difference with this film and literally every other Jonathan Demi film I have ever seen is you do not feel any of his fingerprints on this. It is kind of astonishing because even,

[00:12:30] I mean like you watched Swim to Cambodia and Stop Making Sense which are two pretty, you know, unimpeachable movies. On the sale. Right. Like perfect films. And important films. And both are cases where it's like here is already a pretty transcendent performance. Right.

[00:12:47] And he is adding so much as a director without calling too much attention to himself. Right. In service of the material he is contributing so much to help translate it, to help package it, to present it to people on a screen

[00:13:00] in a way that really showed his genius as a filmmaker because most people would have either overdone it or just done the bare minimum. And he really, his creativity shines through in those kinds of things. And this feels like fucking anyone could have done this.

[00:13:14] They could have just assembled a couple of mini-DV cameras and shot in a house, you know? I see very few touches of his work in this. What would you consider to be the Demi touch? I mean, there are definitely directorial decisions. He famously loves it close up.

[00:13:33] As we've talked about. And this film has close ups but not his famous kind of close up, the sort of looking down the lens. Right. I think a very expressive camera. Right. An expressive camera that is never a style for style's sake

[00:13:49] but he is willing to put the camera in an interesting place or a weird place or do a weird move in order to get at a sort of a static truth, a human connection. He has a lot of sort of color and vibrancy in his films.

[00:14:00] I'd say that energy, that messiness, you know? You think about his 80s movies. Music is sort of like very much a part of... Sister Carol and something wild. And his use of environments, the sort of kinetic energy of a space. You didn't find that using...

[00:14:17] Now technically this is... You didn't find that this barely furnished, empty Airbnb Victorian home in Nyack didn't have energy. Am I wrong in thinking that he lived in Nyack? It's possible. He's an up... He was in that area. He's a record counting guy because he was involved

[00:14:31] with the Jacob Burns Film Center. Which produced this film. Did you see that credit? Sure. The movie wasn't produced by a center. By a center, I know. Russian Pan or something. Well no but also the Jacob Burns Film Center. Oh okay. Has a producer credit on this film.

[00:14:47] It's not even like, you know, made with the association of... It's for a museum. It's not for an audience. Right. It's more of a posterity sake than anything else. We're talking about a master builder. Of course. And our guest today of course is Judge John Hodgman.

[00:15:01] John Hodgman of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Also Medallion Status is my new book. Of course. Anywhere that there are shelves. Or earbuds. Yes. Or screens. Bit.ly slash medallion status. Capital M, all capital letters. M-E-D-A-L-L-I-O-N S-T-A-T-U-S hashtag always be plugging.

[00:15:21] I mean the best salesman in the business. Best. Got a plug? Got a plug. You got a plug. Do you think they went on a 50 state tour plugging master builder when it came out? No. They went on a road show.

[00:15:32] I think they put the lens cap on the camera. Did they even do that or did they just throw it in the bag? And then they went to brunch, you know what I mean? That's why they got together. So Wallace Sean was an actor. An actor? A playwright.

[00:15:47] And S-A-I-S. Right. He has more of a writer. More of a playwright. A smarty pants. The son of William Sean. The son of famous New Yorker editor. William Sean, I also looked at the Wikipedia page. You didn't know?

[00:16:00] Yeah, but I don't have it open in front of man like some people do. You're ragging on me for a second main series appearance. Second laptop. Forky by that for you with his Disney Plus money. I don't know. On that tee.

[00:16:12] How much do you think Forky's making on Disney Plus? I don't understand this Forky joke at all that I've been enjoying it. There was of course a bet placed. Of course. Where David was claiming that Forky was a war criminal.

[00:16:24] In advance of the release of Toy Story 4 I had, I made sport of Forky so that I could annoy Griffin Newman. Said that Forky founded ISIS. I would make outlandish claims like that he did 9-11 for example.

[00:16:38] And I made a bet with David which was he could badmouth Forky as long as he wanted until he saw the film. But if he in fact liked Forky, that he would have to marry him.

[00:16:50] And so David who had spent years in a very loving relationship with a wonderful woman, fortunately now is instead engaged to Forky. And they are actively planning their wedding. So anytime we reference David planning his wedding it is of course canonically too Forky. Oh you're so right.

[00:17:04] It would not be so. I'm actually now interested in Wallace Sean's Wikipedia page now that we've been ragging on me so hard. Can I make a comparison though? A thing that kind of hit me as I was doing the Sean research?

[00:17:15] I feel like Wallace Sean in certain ways has a career that's a little parallel to yours. Oh if only. I would love that. Well hey, you're still 40 years away from your master builder. You have time to get there. I think he was 76 when he filmed this.

[00:17:31] Okay so 50 years old. Yes keep going. 67? So no, I'm closing in on Wallace Sean fast. No you're not. I would love. I always loved Wallace Sean. Like that truly when I was a young weirdo watching movies, that was my representation. That's where I saw me.

[00:17:52] Right because he was a guy who was like a man of letters, you know came from this very literary background. Was this playwright and would be in his own plays but was not I think thought of primarily as an actor.

[00:18:03] I did not come from a literary background by the way. But you are a man of letters. Yeah but self-made. Yes. I mean I'm not like him. From the dirt of Brookline Mass. Yeah that's right from the hard streets of Brookline Mass.

[00:18:15] I mean to think about Wallace Sean though is like fought my way up to McSweeney. When you Google like young Wallace Sean, you see a bald man. Like I can't find a picture of him with Aaron's head.

[00:18:24] Well and that's also what I saw in him was someone who was old from the moment he was young which is how I felt. But the thing that's crazy and then you can speak more on this. Never saw my dinner with Andre though. I've never seen it. Really?

[00:18:35] That is good. It's a spiritual. Criterion packaged it as a box set. Yes. With this and Vanya on 42nd Street. Oh okay. So that's the Andre Gregory ones. Three Wallace Sean and Andre Gregory collaborated. The first two of which were directed by Louis Moll.

[00:18:51] I felt like he was the important sort of third piece in their dynamic. And then he had passed obviously by the point that Demi directed this. So Wallace Sean translated Henry Gibson's master builder.

[00:19:04] He claims he knows Norwegian or at least you would have to make that claim if you were going to claim he translated it. At least has an understanding of Norwegian. But before he worked through Google translated it a little. I just want to Sean gloss.

[00:19:15] Babelfish did have a screen writing credit on this one which is kind of weird. Yeah okay sorry. Before we get into this. We're gonna yes we should talk about yes Wallace Sean man of letters wrote these plays that were like in the 70s controversial right?

[00:19:27] You know he was like a transgressive player. Am I getting ahead of our conversation by trying to give the list of the players? By trying to give the listener something to hang on to. Also a basic background of what we're talking about.

[00:19:39] In the 1990s when I am a young boy watching pop culture. Wallace Sean is he's the dinosaur in Toy Story. That's true. He's the nice teacher in Clueless. And he is the grand mega Zek in Deep Space Nine.

[00:19:52] He's in like three pop culture things that are very crucial for me. I forgot that he was a deep space 90. Even as a young boy I think pretty quickly I realized like oh this is awesome. Just have a moment for Renee Aboujournois. Oh the great.

[00:20:05] I mean really the great. From the cast of my favorite movie of all time Bruce McLeod. Bruce McLeod he's in that he's in many a great movie. And he's the angry chef in The Little Mermaid. Yes. Like there's so many things for you're like oh that's him too.

[00:20:18] He and Carol Spinney died on the same day. They did wow. And both two of my favorite bird men. Because in Bruce McLeod he plays a lecturer who slowly turns into a bird. I'm just I'm just a shout out. Also something I happen to know. A great dad.

[00:20:36] Really? The son Remy Aboujournois. Another great actor in his own life. He's also a terrific actor and a great guy. But he spoke highly of his very high parenting. Yeah like that's great. He seemed like a decent dude. He did seem like a really sweet guy.

[00:20:48] I know a couple people who had like interviewed him or what and said that he was you know above and beyond gentlemen Lee and you know all that. But anyway it's just funny to think about Sean was on Deep Space Nine.

[00:20:59] Toy Story and Clueless three very big things for me when I was like right in that mid 90s zone. Right. And but then again also I don't mind the Princess Bride. The Princess Bride. And other children's you know young person's constant.

[00:21:11] But this is the thing that I find interesting is that he was like you know this very like intellectual man who like on his Wikipedia was like he considered being a diplomat. Like he was like not sure what he wanted to do in his career.

[00:21:22] Ended up becoming a play right was in like very heady sort of like New York theater communities. Yeah. Then started peering in his own plays. His plays were much contested where people are thought he was like brilliant or a fraud. Right. And then slowly.

[00:21:35] A thought in three parts was debated in parliament over pornographic content in the 70s. The United Kingdom's Parliament. How have you not? Well one Wikipedia. Two of course as an Englishman I know all of parliament's debates. You have to memorize them right for your A levels.

[00:21:52] Every single one there like we began in 1205. Do they give you text updates? Is it like Amber alerts on your phone? Oh my God.

[00:22:00] But yes by the time you get to the 90s he is just like oh one of those like completely reliable comedic character actors in Mass Appeal like Studio. And here's why. He looks funny and he sounds funny.

[00:22:14] He looks like a muppet who fell into a magic bag of dust and got turned into a person. That's what David was saying last night over text. When are they gonna just get someone to admit like he was an experiment gone wrong?

[00:22:26] Because it is unbelievable that that man is lucky enough to both look like that and sound like that. You have one or the other and you're probably set for life as a character actor. To have both. The guy just fucking was born by having hit a home run.

[00:22:40] And you don't ever get the sense this movie. Existing not withstanding as evidence. Yes. That he begrudged his mainstream career. Which is a fascinating thing. He never went full Eugene Levy and started just like you know pounding out clueless direct to video sequels or whatever.

[00:22:58] But he was always happy it seemed to take any role. Yeah. Right? Yes. And I'm struggling to think of a good example of this right now.

[00:23:05] Maybe one will come to me later but I feel like there are other people like him who did not consider themselves to be actors. Ended up carving out a weird career in mainstream pop culture as like a character performer. Right.

[00:23:16] And kind of always talk shit about that stuff. And then lost it and then had to write a book about it called Medellin's status. Remember? No but you're sort of I feel like a very similar example in that you were like you came from the literary world.

[00:23:28] You were a writer and then you started becoming more and more of a performer and then started appearing in things as a character actor. But you sort of like jumped into it with the same sort of relish that Rolashan did. Yeah.

[00:23:39] And of course I had the example of Wallace Shon and also George Plimpton was a hero of my too. It's another great example. Also was like you know my doing these in television commercials not slumming. Right.

[00:23:51] Like this is paying the bills for my weird literary magazine and living the life that I want to lead. And there's an equal balance of like you get to work with people you really respect and really heady things and you get to like the voice, the cartoon character.

[00:24:03] Yeah. And guess what? You're also working with people that you really respect. Right of course. It's fun. I feel like there are other people like Wallace Shon. You know who I'm against? Who? Snobz. I hate snobs. Hate them. How about slobs? Pro. You got to be pro slobs.

[00:24:17] Yeah. I mean if there's slobs in this studio. If there's a snobs versus slobs showdown. It is. Yeah you want to take slobs. No this is a snobs versus slobs show. Yeah that's right. Yeah. We talk about a master builder based on Ibsen.

[00:24:29] Yeah how many people would do that? We're here. Right. We showed up to talk a master builder for 20-ish minutes and then we got some playing with him. Like I feel that Wallace Shon has been driven in his life through an appreciation of fun. Yes.

[00:24:43] And for him this is fun. Yes. 100%. He wanted to get together with his friends. He wanted to get together with his friends. For this great work. Yeah. Let's you know explore this Airbnb space. Yeah.

[00:24:54] Let's make a movie about the topic that is on the tip of everyone's tongue that no one is discussing which is the innate fuckability of Wallace. And whether or not he has inception power which is sort of what a master builder is about. That was incredible.

[00:25:08] Even bedridden in a fucking Nike jumpsuit women cannot stop kissing him. So master builder. Yes. Written in 1892 by Henry Gibson. Of course. Is about a master builder. Yes. He makes buildings. He makes an architect. He makes it a building. They could have called it the architect.

[00:25:28] A key distinction was the place called. The master builder or in Norwegian peak master soulness. Correct. Master builder soulness. The difference in a makes that was their whole idea was like we're going to put our own spin on it. This is not the master builder.

[00:25:42] This is a master builder. Which to me presented the kind of idea of like oh this is going to get pretty loose adaptation and never read the play or seen a production. This feels like it is just translating it into a different language and putting in

[00:25:56] a house and I thought it was going to be inspired by the same here and play but it is the Ibsen play. It's just straight. It is most. It's Sean's translation. It is. But it is you know. The bones are there. It's Ibsen.

[00:26:08] You know that it is the Ibsen play because although this would seem to take place in the present day somewhere in the United States probably Niaak. In English. Everyone is referring to this architect as master builder. Yes. A term that has never been used in the United States.

[00:26:23] And there is a weird formality to all of the language. Very, very formal and they also cannot stop trying to solve the Ragnar problem. They say Ragnar a lot. Master builder Solnes is an architect who is nearing the end of his life. He's really sick at the beginning.

[00:26:39] He's got at least one nurse that you might meet later who knows. That's the thing that is more their addition that he's publicly sick. That's not in the play. Oh, okay. Because in the play at the end he falls off the tower as they keep sort of hinting

[00:26:53] they're like what if you went up there? Yeah, right. Whereas in this movie it's just a dream and check off plays you got guns on mantelpieces. Ibsen's tower. In Ibsen plays you got wreaths on tops of towers and this is very important because

[00:27:05] the master builder's nearing the end of his life. He is no longer interested or capable in making his most famous architectural detail which is to add phallic towers to everything. He literally can't get an erection anymore. He also doesn't want to seed control to anyone else.

[00:27:25] He's like I hate doing this. I no longer get excited. I don't think it's worth giving them my art. And Ragnar is like I can step up and he's like fuck you. Incomceivable! Come in! Go away! Come in! It is a play.

[00:27:40] You know, a play about many things. You know, watching this, I never read the play. Yeah. And I'm like you know what? This is a goddamn English class. Yep. But it's kind of interesting. Yeah. I mean kind of. I'm glad to have been introduced to this play.

[00:27:55] I never... I'm glad that through watching this movie, I never need to read or see a production of this play and I can act as if I know Henry Kebson. Let me say this though. A master builder.

[00:28:06] I feel like if we saw the three of us rolled up to a Broadway or off-Broadway production of a master builder, we'd probably get a lot more out of it. Well I think... Theater belongs in theaters and is far more engaging when you're really locked in with it.

[00:28:19] Right. You know, like when people call things stagey, sometimes they're being a little harsh and they just mean that something's intimate. But this is the definition of a stagey film. Yeah, it is filmed theater. Yes. Pure film theater.

[00:28:31] You even feel you know when those act breaks are happening. Totally. Because they cut to a hedge. Yeah. And then come back to the house. So anytime... So it's a play I guess in three acts maybe four? I detected three acts where it was like... I think so.

[00:28:44] Yeah. They're cutting to a hedge clue. This is when they were on stage they'd be resetting. De-marketed by the set changes. That's right. Exactly. Right. Yeah. And Master Builder Solnes is anxious about seeding his career to his assistant Ragnar, of course. He also doesn't want to go...

[00:29:02] Solnes is his best friend. Ragnar is his best friend. Ragnar who has played and no offense to this actor whose name is Jeff Beale. But played with the energy of someone pitching like a sprint product. You know what I mean? Like he comes in in a suit.

[00:29:15] It's a good thing that you waited a point looking up his name. I feel bad. No offense to this actor. Hang on. Let me get this name. I'm like, this is Ragnar's here again. Like this is going to be a showdown.

[00:29:24] And so he's just like, I thought you wanted me to be the Master Builder. I'm like Ragnar, come on! You got to bring it! He has like this deer in the headlights look at his face the entire time.

[00:29:33] I swear he's about to say like, well with Verizon you have more coverage than any other. I just want to say, you know, out of respect, I looked him up as well because I was like who the fuck is this guy?

[00:29:45] He is at the time of this recording or earlier this year nominated for a Drama Desk Award for Best Lead Actor in a Play. I forget what play it is. What if it was like a play? I see. Maybe.

[00:29:56] He is a respected and legitimate theater actor who is drowning in this film. Right. And most of the performances in this film. Maybe they wanted him to be drowning? I don't know. I think that it was probably very hard to figure out takes. I think so too.

[00:30:11] To how to perform this material. I think there is a... And I don't think that Wallace Sean was giving a clear idea of what the other people should put a model for what...

[00:30:20] For how you're going to perform this very now highly stylized formal language in a natural setting. And that's the big thing. It doesn't feel like Demi was doing much other than figuring out how to film the thing.

[00:30:32] I do not feel his fingerprints as an actor's director in this. It feels like that was certainly more Wallace Sean and Andre Gregory's territory perhaps. Watching this movie, I kept on like Googling to be like,

[00:30:45] I know last time I Googled five minutes ago the last time I paused this movie, the results were zero but I has to have been wrong. It feels like this was a production that ran at BAM for two weeks and then they filled it.

[00:30:58] Except there was no production. No. But everything about this feels like it is adapted. I thought I saw that there was a production. Really? I couldn't find any evidence of a production. Who knows? There's no way anyone could know. There's no way anyone...

[00:31:11] No one has a computer here. Oh wait a minute David. What's the... Laptop Sims. Look at the... Hey laptop-y. It's hard to search for master builder stage production. There have been many. That's the problem. What a different...

[00:31:26] The Wikipedia page for the movie I felt like in the section about the translation. No, the only thing... Oh you know what? Maybe it was the Wikipedia page 4. I think it might be the criteria in essay. Oh no go ahead sir. Okay because the movies Wikipedia pages sparse.

[00:31:39] It's sparse. I think it's just that Demi really liked the performance given by Lisa Joyce. Lisa Joyce... We have a lot to talk about with Lisa... With all of... Yes. First of all, Wikipedia page 4, The Play, Big Mester Soleness.

[00:31:57] 2013 film A Master Builder was directed by Jonathan Demi and stars Wallace Sean who previously had translated and adapted it for the stage in collaboration with Andre Gregory. The stage had a picture of the base of the film. But the adaptation might just be a script. No but he's...

[00:32:10] And adapted it for the stage. The stage adaptation was the basis... I guess I don't know. I don't know. It also feels like... This is the kind of ambiguity that really gives this movie a big energy. This is what it seemed like to me.

[00:32:22] Like he staged this adaptation, his translation at some point. But this movie feels like they were coming off of a six weeks run and just said, Hey can we just film this thing? It feels like something that was filmed for posterity, for the historical record.

[00:32:36] It feels like this cast was not doing a production of this play in the time before this movie was shot. If he staged this, it feels like it happened ten plus years earlier.

[00:32:45] Can I jump in that side that the variety review implies that this was 14 years in the making? Right. That's exactly what we're talking about. Back when you were covering an epic adventure 14 years in the making.

[00:32:59] Back when you were covering the development of A Master Builder at the Boston Film. Of course. Exactly. Of course. This was a passion project for Wallace Shawn, obviously, and Andre Gregory. That is the most important context for this film, which is...

[00:33:13] My Dinner With Andre was kind of this landmark art house film. Yes. And that it was... Here are these two like dramaturgical guys who are no one's idea of conventional movie stars. Wallace Shawn has started developing more of a character actor career. But in... 81 not really.

[00:33:29] Yeah, I feel like this was his breakout. People were like, let's make that guy the voice of the best. Woody Allen movies. He had made tiny appearances in things. He was a New York intellectual type.

[00:33:37] Right, and they wrote a script based off of the conversations that they would have. What on paper sounds like the most self-indulgent and least dramatic. Dramatically engaging sort of text possibly. Superman you'll believe a man can fly. My Dinner With Andre you'll believe two people can eat.

[00:33:54] But they go to Louis Maw, very respected filmmaker. And he liked the challenge of how can you take this thing that is inherently unsinematic. Two guys having intellectual conversation around a table and try to make a movie out of it.

[00:34:04] And it becomes a bit of a punchline, but not only does it work, but it becomes a bit of a crossover success. Right. And people were like you won't believe this. It's actually exciting.

[00:34:13] It was like the intellectual equivalent of deep throat in the 70s where people were like I don't usually see stuff like this, but I guess I gotta right? Everyone's talking about how much these guys talk. Even the slobs were like I guess the snobs got something.

[00:34:23] Like I'm biased this time. And getting like... You gotta love that conversation because there's a funny looking funny sounding guy in it. I think that's the X factor is that Wala-Shan is so innately kind of engaging to watch and likeable

[00:34:36] and funny that he makes the film a little more accessible than it would be otherwise. And then kind of off of that his character actor career really takes off. And Princess Bride is the real turning point where once you've put him in a different context

[00:34:50] you're no longer just having him play a New York intellectual, but you're going oh you could apply this energy to different characters and different genres then like the doors are off the hinges. Stellar career peaks in the 90s, you know all that. I think so. Right.

[00:35:05] But you know about ten years... He's still doing great. Yeah, ten years later, Gregory... Did your fiance get to work with him in Toy Story 4? Well they record all the dialogue separately, you know. Took me a second. Yeah but there might have been a table.

[00:35:19] Did this four people have a scene with Rex? What kind of scenes with Rex? They're in the larvae together. He's in Bonnie's room. What are you talking about? I've not seen Toy Story 4 so I don't even know. I have only seen Toy Story 4 once. Yeah, that's crazy.

[00:35:31] So you still have to see it three more times? I do. Is that the rule? Well yeah of course. Everyone has to watch Toy Story 4 four times. Four for four. Three for three, two for two, one for one. I've only ever seen Toy Story 1 once.

[00:35:43] You have not seen Toy Story 2? No I've seen them all. Except for the four. Oh oh oh, you're making a joke. You scared me for a moment. No of course I've seen Toy Story 2. My blood ran cold.

[00:35:52] When that movie ended I was like that was the perfect sequel. No more of these ever need to be made. Very accurate. It is the perfect sequel.

[00:35:59] Toy Story 3 is an incredible achievement in that there was absolutely zero reason for it to be made and it made space for itself. And I would say the same about Toy Story 4. Yeah, I've not seen it but I've heard too.

[00:36:09] A movie that conceptually I believe has no reason to be made and I think justifies the time. Why are we talking about other movies? I mean we're here with a master builder. We cannot go off on tangents.

[00:36:19] What I love about this is like, you know the X factor that made Snob achievement super plus A plus number one, My Dinner with Andre. Yes. So appealing is that Wallace Sean is wonderfully appealing. Yes. So here he is playing the least likable human being ever.

[00:36:38] He's literally playing like if Oscar the Grouch also was like a serial cheater on his wife. Right, a serial philanderer. He's such a grouch. Right. He also can't shut the fuck up. Sometimes I was just like master builder, quiet. I'm bored of you talking. Well that's what's weird.

[00:36:56] This is such a portrait of toxic masculinity. Yes. It's almost essential viewing. Which is one of Sean's specialties. He likes digging into that. That sort of arrogance of yes. Yeah, like his doctor comes to see him and he's like maybe you should step down and let Ragnar go.

[00:37:13] And he's like how dare they ask me to set the side. I'm 76 years old in a hospital bed. And dying. And this isn't a curbed jump. And I literally am about to die. It's like yeah, okay boomer. That's what's also weird is it doesn't feel like he...

[00:37:29] See a boomer? Well that's the thing because this movie is about a midlife crisis. Yes. It is much more plausible and much more accessible if master builder is in his 50s. In the play I believe that is the idea.

[00:37:46] The idea of the play is not that he's about to die. Right. Because they're not a twilight. The vision of you know, grayed out Wallace Sean who is being filmed barely grasping for life at the end. Yes. Actually grasping for life just makes it sad and perverse. Totally.

[00:38:03] And there is equally... I mean the other reason that he's awful is that once he gets some privacy, a new house guest comes to town. A stranger comes to town. And that's Hilda who is a 22 year old. That he immediately falls in super duper love with.

[00:38:19] Because he promised her when she was like 12 that he would make her a princess someday? Yes, that he would give her a kingdom. Right, that he had met 10 years before when she was 12. In the play she's supposed to have like a short skirt.

[00:38:31] You know she's supposed to be sort of wearing like provocative clothing. And so here they give her white shorts like these short shorts. To be like oh my... Lanzan looks like if the Midsummer community shopped at Lanzan.

[00:38:45] But we've already at this point in the film seen Wallace Sean smooching Ragnar's wife. Right, he's having an affair with Ragnar's wife and said that cannot live without him.

[00:38:56] But as he's smooching her she's like oh god, oh no, it's not like it's not the hottest smooch you ever did see. No but she is in a consensual affair with him. She's just ashamed or whatever, worried she'll get caught.

[00:39:09] Right, but it is awful to begin with if he is 56 years old. If he is 76 years old... It's horrific. It's horrific to consider and it's horrific to watch. The first 35 I believe I counted minutes are him in that bed. Oh my god, this is so boring.

[00:39:25] Ranting people are coming in and out. And then he says come in. And Dave and I are texting each other at this point. And we're like oh there's a little energy because he gets up.

[00:39:35] But we're like first 30 minutes we're texting each other and we're like this is one of the least engaging things I've ever watched. But I'm like the one thing I find kind of interesting is Wallachian playing so much against his type.

[00:39:48] Even if I find this character repellent there is something kind of interesting trying to grasp for any silver linings here to watching him play so quiet and so angry because that's not usually the energy he is asked to contribute to films.

[00:40:03] And then at the 30 minute mark he says come in and suddenly starts playing like full big Wallachian. Suddenly dialed up but then... While lusting after a 20-year-old.

[00:40:12] Yes, but then he goes and sits down with her and they have another 30 minute conversation and all that energy is quickly gone. Yeah. The comedy of that moment. Yes. Wallachian just can't help it. No. And you know when... He talks like this. Which I mean like fundamentally.

[00:40:27] The first 30 minutes it's like he's working as hard as he can. I'm still incredibly powerful and smart and I will not have Ragnar taking over my job. It's literally what the whole thing sounds like.

[00:40:38] And the thing that I should say that he's like a theater luminaire even though he is good. The thing that I fear the most is that the younger generation will someday knock on my door. Knock, knock, knock. Come in! But it is... It's openly comic.

[00:40:52] I don't think it's intentional but it's hilarious. No. The first 30 minutes it's like this like he's like... There's a literal knock on the door. Right. And then a 22 year old woman comes in. And he goes I'm here now. In the sixth sense plotting of this movie.

[00:41:07] That is when we are entering the dream state. Right. That is when he's going on to life support. Right because there's an immediate... And this is definitely a directorial choice. Because it immediately goes from absolutely cold zero colors to literally every time

[00:41:21] she walks into a room he talks about her as a ray of light. There's sunshine beaming into his face directly from her. And also he takes off his white canvas jacket and he's wearing this like weird track suit. It feels like a stage decision. Sure.

[00:41:35] Like it feels like a theater lighting decision more than it feels like because the vocabulary of the filmmaking itself doesn't change at all. Right. Which is the thing that Demi would usually do. But it is like the first 30 minutes he's like Sisyphus like trying to fight against

[00:41:49] everything that makes him innately funny. Right. Where he's talking slower and quieter. Quieter. Right, right. So he's not as innately comical. The second he says come in the dam breaks and for the rest of the movie everything he does is goofy. Every face he makes is goofy.

[00:42:04] Even when he's starting to do his head now. Yes, right. Right. I mean I'm not saying that this is a successful transition. Yeah. But if anything it's unnerving that all of a sudden Wala Shon is leaping out of bed and ogling this young woman.

[00:42:18] The reason I couldn't find the variety of reviews is that when this premiered at the Rome Film Festival where it premiered it was called Fear of Falling. Yes. And then I guess they were like we need the box office dollars that come with

[00:42:31] you know really identifying the master builder connection. The Ibsen heads got really mad online. One difference in aiming. Right. And it didn't come out until like a year after it played at the festival? Yeah, not that unusual for an indie movie. And it barely came out.

[00:42:43] I mean I remember it played. Box office here and wait I have to go further down and it opened at number 69 to $12,000 so you're embarrassed right now. On one screen? On one screen. So it played at the film forum.

[00:42:55] That's the only theater I know of that actually showed this film theatrically. That's what the film forum does. Totally and I remember at the time being like there's a Jonathan Demi movie that I haven't heard of that is premiered.

[00:43:05] That you're technically his follow-up, his fiction follow-up to Rachel getting married. Right. Like one of his great achievements. One of the best films of the decade. Right. And I was like how do I not know about this film? And Wala Shon was outside going come in.

[00:43:17] He was there. But when we like when Demi wanted we knew. Are we retiring that bit now? No, absolutely not. Like when Demi won and we were like strategizing how you know to get through because it's a lot of films. Most of them have been very exciting.

[00:43:29] I mean it's actually been I think one of our best ever series. I agree but this was like one where we were like what do we do about the fucking master builder episode? We immediately were like let's abuse our friendship with Hodgeman. Sure.

[00:43:41] This feels like a thing he might have good takes on. And when I burdened you with the idea that you appear on this episode for a film you would never even heard of. Yeah. The thing that finally got you excited was I was you were like I've

[00:43:52] never even heard of this. I was like John this movie has no cultural footprint whatsoever. And you were like now I'm in. I like the idea that this movie has made no impression whatsoever on the culture.

[00:44:04] It was not made for anyone other than the people who were in that house. And for like the third film and ostensibly like a trilogy of the Andre Gregory Wala Shon films of which the first two are very revered Vanya 42nd Street. Yeah. Which is a much more.

[00:44:20] That's a good movie. I haven't seen years and is a looser more creative adaptation. Yes. And is really yes and is cinematically interesting is Louis Mal again is Julianne Moore. While a Sean has more of a supporting role with those two films it

[00:44:35] sets a table for what you imagine the third one would be especially as it's these two guys nearing the winter of their life. You know right the whole thing they said was they were drawn to the play because they felt like coming to terms with your

[00:44:46] reputation your legacy your mortality at the end of your life was a thing that they that was really speaking to them at this point and they thought it would be a good third film to round out their trilogy.

[00:44:57] It's basically a movie about a man right who refuses to accept that no one wants to listen to him talk and talk and talk and talk anymore. Yeah. And who and the original manic pixie dream girl who enters

[00:45:10] his life to prove to him that he can still maybe get laid with a 22 year old which it's kind of an interesting counterpoint to my dinner with Andre being a movie about a guy who needs to shut the fuck up right but it's also weird that

[00:45:21] my dinner with Andre is like walla Sean this guy's innately interesting let's make a movie that's just him talking the way he talks in conversation funny and 42nd Street is a little bit more him being the greater collaborator in the larger

[00:45:32] thing and him like fitting in as an actor you know but it's not like a vehicle for him and this is very much like here's a vehicle to give walla Sean the performance of his career like it kind of feels like we're going to do

[00:45:43] like full main course walla Sean giving a ball to the wall performance as you've never seen him before. Yeah but that was that was what this was teed up to be. Yeah and it was basically walla Sean like the master builder saying I still got it.

[00:46:01] There's this cognitive dissonance that we were sort of starting to talk about. A lot of cognitive dissonance that word. The language and the performances do not gel with the fact that this movie is visually taking place present day in nyak. Right you just cannot ever reconcile the two.

[00:46:18] It is so disorienting and especially because it shot like a little bit documentary style digital video handheld camera like all of that stuff feels very modern and present. Yes. Yeah it is so stilted the way everyone reacts to each other culturally does not make sense in present day

[00:46:37] America right. You know the mere fact the doctor comes to make a house call first of all and then they say and of course you'll be staying to supper. Right not my doctor. Well even your health insurance that's incredible.

[00:46:51] The Hilda character Blue Cross pays for six dinners a year to be to be to be fair my personal physician Dr. Bruce Yaffe does have a political political discussion dinner once a month that I've been consistently invited

[00:47:05] to and I've never had a chance to go so I guess there are people who do socialize with their physicians. The young Sheldon I did know what episode I did know that he plays it a professor. I probably not like a mechanic who's like shelling

[00:47:18] you're such a nerd. He plays a master builder in town still elderly but still vibrant and respected and sexy master builders. He promised a 12 year old young Sheldon that someday he would make him a prince. Yeah speaking of that my kingdom. So in comes Hilda.

[00:47:39] Yes out of nowhere out of nowhere. And this was the thing I was going to say that very much speaks to the cultural clash of this movie right of it not making sense in the time that is visually set in. Right she comes in.

[00:47:53] She literally wanders into the house. Right well she does knock. Yes I'm younger generation knocking at the door knock knock right. He's like I don't want the younger generation knock on the door unless she's hot. Does not then yes come in live here.

[00:48:05] Does not reveal that they have met until 15 minutes in at which point she essentially tests him to go like you don't remember meeting. Right which is always great to do to someone. Right and then finally explained 10 years ago

[00:48:16] when I was 12 years old you made a promise to me that at some point you build a kingdom for me. I held on to that for 10 years to the date. Right. And then without any further communication in the last decade without any forewarning showed up

[00:48:29] at your front door and have come here expecting the palace is a thing that only makes sense in the 1800s where there is no ability to follow up with people. Right. Where a 12 year old would literally just memorize a date and go 10 years.

[00:48:42] I'm going to get a kingdom and a palace. Right trek across the country. From this person who sexually assaulted me as a child. Because that's the other part of the story. Yeah. She's like you don't remember how you grabbed me and kissed me when I was 12?

[00:48:56] He's like no. I would have remembered doing that you probably are picking up on the fact that I wanted to do that. Right. It's his defense. You remember the energy of me wanting to do that. Well, he has already claimed that he has mental powers. Right.

[00:49:10] The reason that he's been hugging and kissing with what's your name? Kaya? Sure. Ragnar's wife? Why not? It's because one day he thought to himself. Chili-aggerty. Right. One day he thought to himself I would like her to work here because I want to have sex with her. Yes.

[00:49:24] And the next day she showed up and goes I'm here for working sex. Yes. And it's like I think that I have the power to change reality with my mind which is also kind of the worst. He thinks he has inception powers. He thinks he has inception powers.

[00:49:35] No other way to put it. Right. He's like he's too important to give up his job. He is literally a god on earth. Julie-Haggerty is the best performance in this film. I agree. I also just really like Julie-Haggerty. I do too. I enjoyed seeing her in Marriage Story

[00:49:48] which Wallace Shona is also in. It's a real hit. Marriage Story is really an homage to a master builder. He was going to call it a marriage story. It was real. I mean, what Wallace Shon wanted for this performance Julie-Haggerty got. Because Julie-Haggerty. She was.

[00:50:04] It was very jarring to see Julie-Haggerty who's always so just you know. Like bubbly and like. A lovable. Yes. Ditsy but smart secretly. Yes. Nice person. And for the last place. So hard and angry. For the last 10 or 15 years she has pretty

[00:50:18] much been in this zone of just total pro all of the things that she's doing is just like she's doing it with just total pro always killing it playing mother or grandmother in studio comedies. Right. And even Marriage Story which is like

[00:50:32] a pricklier film made by a more tourist filmmaker. Her performance in that while excellent and with better material is still not that far off from how she plays the grandmother in Instant Family or the Disney Plus original film Noelle. You have now named all of her

[00:50:49] credits from this decade. I know because I watched those three movies in three consecutive days. How is Noelle. It's a mess. OK. But I weirdly like watched Instant Family on Hulu when I couldn't sleep. Saw a marriage story in theaters and then watched Noelle on Disney Plus

[00:51:02] when I couldn't sleep three consecutive nights and I was like fucking Hagerty like burning it up. But those three are essentially the same performance because she's a pro and she clearly shows up and she does the work and she's better in Marriage Story because she's giving better shit

[00:51:14] to work with and that makes me think oh this is the thing that Julie Hagerty does and then you watch her in this in the picture of her voice is entirely different she's at a very very different frequency she's far more naturalistic

[00:51:26] I think she's the only actor who succeeds in making this feel behaviorally current if that makes sense. Fine. There is a there is a moment where she goes and the house that you're building for us will make everything better and she does a little Diane Keaton wave. Yes.

[00:51:47] Like there but see I I found alright. Let's get into it hot takes. I found the relatively naturalistic nyak 2014 style acting to be really ex school in high school. I felt I felt the acting like no one in this is a bad actor. Agreed.

[00:52:12] A lot of the acting choices that they're making are strange and for you and you know thank God or whatever I understood going into this that as soon as she knocks on the door and the film the film's temperature switches so completely something goofy is happening that this

[00:52:31] is not reality right. They can't be that it can't be because so many of the choices are so strange including you know and I'm what is the name of the actor Lisa Joyce like Lisa Joyce is so all over the place emotionally. She is clearly a very skilled

[00:52:50] intelligent actor yes only way to make sense of playing this material right in this day and age in this kind of setting on film is to play it like a woman in the midst of a complete mental breakdown yeah because I mean she's just every five seconds

[00:53:07] wildly oscillating to a different emotion there's so much of her like on the verge of tears then turning into hysterical laughter then getting angry then getting seductive right and it makes sense if you go this is a young actor who is hungry who is fresh

[00:53:21] at a drama school who's got the brains and is looking at the script and going well this behavior makes no fucking sense this is written by an old man with probably a pretty poor opinion of young women you know in a very very different time and the only

[00:53:36] way to make this consistent is to make her act like a crazy person. I mean it's the whole conceit of the play is deeply offensive totally deeply deeply offensive right so the only way to make but I don't think that these these performances undid that

[00:53:51] I don't even I'm not one of the so there are two major ambiguities right yes one is she tells a story about how when she was a little girl at the age of 12 she saw him climb the spire of the church that he had

[00:54:03] built and put the wreath on top of it which is a thing that happens and wouldn't erotic act I mean imagine being a 12 year old seeing what Sean being a 60 something Wallace I mean I guess that would imprint on you sexually for the rest of your life

[00:54:16] a fetish develops in that very moment she watched him climb his own erection and give it a little hat and put a wreath around it right you know what I mean yes yes and then he meets her at lunch after when they're alone and he sexually assaults her

[00:54:32] and promises her the world promises her the world and that's what she remembers and she comes back and she's like she's a writer and he has no memory of it yes and the question I mean this goes to the to the Ibsen not to the

[00:54:46] not to this production because you don't know whether this happened or not yes right you don't know whether because he claims to have no memory of it and then decides he does have a memory of it yeah because she's sort of like once he figures out she's like

[00:55:00] yeah your memory out 10 years ago you sexually assaulted me well guess what I'm back and by the way I don't want to be here and I'm just want my kingdom please and I'm gonna be here and spend the next hour or so seducing you

[00:55:12] making you feel sexual potent forgiving you for the horrible things you've done and then demanding that you have a bigger and better conscience so I'm gonna be this young woman who's going to basically fillate you and also do all your emotional labor

[00:55:28] for you for the next hour until you can finally die in peace right until it'll turn out right and the other end to see the last seconds of your life and the and the other ambiguity the one that I find more disturbing yeah is I don't

[00:55:42] know how much this movie is aware of this I don't know whether Wallace Sean I think that as an actor I think it's or as a translator is aware of the fact that he is a monster that is irredeemable and not I think it's most of walla

[00:56:00] shawns plays non translation I'm looking for this quote disgusting men and like they're sort of darkest sides and they're about sort of like running at that right I think it is it's his specialty he loves to roll up his sleeves and think about his his id

[00:56:18] you can look you're the one with the laptop you have the you have the you have the database of knowledge on your hands all I can go with is my gut feeling while as Sean talks my gut feeling watching this this morning when it

[00:56:30] you know in as snow fell outside and my and my own wife didn't speak to me across the room because she was silently grading papers it was a very ipsony way of seeing a movie I'm feeling like I don't know whether

[00:56:42] I don't know whether this movie gets it and part of the reason is that the the performances are so odd a quote I found that that's stuck in my craw while reading walla shawns Wikipedia last night for a long time I just the late awful John Simon

[00:57:02] recently departed critic and a horrible person who was famous for criticizing the physical appearance of actors relentlessly for decades had the line walla shawns is one of the unsightliest actors in the city at the time which is particularly cutting but the line that I that stuck in my

[00:57:22] crowd was walla shawns describing when people interviewed him at the time the seeming weird juxtaposition between his appearance and his temperament and how transgressive his plays were that he said that the plays were depicting his interior life as a raging beast and it is part of this thing

[00:57:44] and part of this sort of tradition that goes back even further than ipson but it feels like it is finally being slaughtered by the power of now of sort of intellectual giants quote unquote making drama about their own power and how sort of compelling and charismatic

[00:58:10] and magnetic they are their greatness how that translates into a raw sexuality their intellectual sort of supremacy all that sort of stuff these shows that even if they were about a complicated unseemly man who have made mistakes and you know committed great sin

[00:58:28] in their life always came back around to the fact that it's like but it's undeniable that this is a great man a master builder attention must be paid to this master builder this man of such superior intellect and wit building skill right and it translates

[00:58:42] into a k a the fountain head everyone to fuck them right right and this feels it feels odd for a man who otherwise seems to be such a just sort of pro of give me the script I'll play the role and even in his own

[00:58:56] passion projects is like I will do the unseemly thing I have no need to position myself as high status to make myself look good I don't think this this material reflects who Wala Shana is in real life but it's weird of him to pick as the

[00:59:14] the piece through which to filter his feelings at the end of his life reflecting on his career and his legacy this piece of material it's somewhat master build a tory thank you and with that someone was going to get there first let's

[00:59:30] close the book on master you have actually want to definitively close I'm happy to do it because I think I think of talking about this I think we've been talking about this an hour well I think but here's something I want to say okay

[00:59:45] one mm-hmm I mean first of all Ibsen is is really insightful into psychology mm-hmm and obviously this was written more than a hundred years ago 18 something but it is very contemporary feeling sure and it really does feel like it was one of the first like contemporary right he's

[01:00:03] modernist the birth of modernism and the birth of interior and there's an ebbler we love we love the glass house sure psychological realism believe those are all psychological realism brought to the forefront with with him and in particular psychological realism being expressed through an upper middle

[01:00:21] class bourgeois society that puts a real privilege on Victorian manners and reticence yes so the fact that some of the things that these characters are saying to each other a lot of stuff they just dance around some of the stuff that they're saying to each other is

[01:00:35] is rather candid for its time and explosively so it's right sure that doesn't work in a contemporary setting because we talk about shit like this all the time right and you can't to me the acting was so contemporary and naturalistic that I felt like oh

[01:00:49] I'm you're doing the play a disservice you need to play this as though this is a repressed period of time well and had a gambler I don't mind if you dress it up as nyack today but your your performances cannot be I don't think right as wildly

[01:01:05] contemporary and like you know I think Lisa Joyce is a very talented actor but her all over the madness and the and the laughing and stuff like that to me like play play it be smaller smaller in the well it's not supposed to know how

[01:01:19] this person feels it needs to pick a lane like it either needs to double down on the sort of the manners and the formality and the repression of the time period in which it was written right or needs to find a way to fully modernize

[01:01:33] the ideas because the lines are all about psychological subtext yes but their faces all of their faces are all about psychological text right it's all written on their faces in a way that to me I think was not good and had a gambler

[01:01:47] is not satisfying agree that way not satisfying had a gambler is a play that keeps on getting sort of revisited great role for like a leading lady of Broadway but so many times in the last 10 or 15 years people have come up with radical

[01:02:01] sort of reinterpretations of and there was head of Tron which was Liz Maryweather's big like sort of breakthrough as a writer right but you know putting spins on to realize like look take it literally 19 Broadway productions of head of that's pretty great right for everything

[01:02:17] that is important about Ibsen and the you know by all accounts he is the second most produced playwright in history after Shakespeare yes very often when people put up they're very easy to mount because they just take place one has yes

[01:02:31] when people put up Ibsen shows one master builder they usually reinterpret them in a major way at this point in time in the last 10 15 years I feel like there are big creative sort of swings taken to figure out how to make what Ibsen was saying at that

[01:02:45] time period equally impactful today rather than just re-staging what he intended back then because that usually doesn't really land I will say that this is I am glad to be introduced to this play I'm glad it has a cultural footprint if this if this film does

[01:03:01] not I this episode might gross more than master builder I think I think I think by the way we're charging $10 it's a one week film for me so we need five listeners to match the opening weekend I think the opening weekend was $7000 it was 12 12 oh I'm sorry

[01:03:19] but like I will say one thing about it that was good sure Julie Haggerty and Lisa Joyce is seen together on the window seat oh agreed wonderful they are both amazing yeah in part because I mean a a it's a very small scene it's the only scene

[01:03:35] that walla shawn isn't completely I didn't think about that I love walla shawn so much but this character I feel bad for criticizing Lisa Joyce's choices is that Joyce's choices the joy the joy the least as an actor yeah specifically because everyone's making weird weird

[01:03:53] choices everyone's trying to make figure out what this is all about but only do I feel like Julie Haggerty really figures out what this is about when she says the thing yeah my twins my twin children died after this fire my husband

[01:04:07] down that I grew up in yeah my twin children died but that's what bothers me what bothers me is the loss of all the dresses that my mothers and grandmothers made all this silent secret work that women do that never gets celebrated

[01:04:23] by you know putting a wreath on a phallic symbol or whatever in the middle of town and two these dolls that I had these nine dolls that I could and you know Lisa Joyce is amazing in this and Julie Haggerty

[01:04:33] is amazing she teases out that like oh you played with these dolls when you were grown up she said yeah and when my husband wasn't around I would still play with these dolls she had a secret in her life that got burned up by her husband's ambition

[01:04:43] it does house it is it was just what it was just like that was the moment where I felt like oh this could be a you could redo this play and it would be revolutionary to see today it was revolutionary for its time

[01:04:53] and it would be really important to see today this is not my favorite and the reason why ultimately sorry to go on about this I know that no I love it I know that Mr. Forky doesn't want me to keep talking about this movie please Mrs. Forky

[01:05:05] I for all of the the decision to make the strangeness of the situation of Hilda arriving at this house a fever dream in the mind of a dying man is interesting but ultimately completely erases that character that character is now not only yeah highly highly problematic

[01:05:25] by acting both as accuser and as a do-sir in his conscience and everything else but also not even human like there's not even a person there it's the reason why it was all a dream is thrown out as the least satisfying

[01:05:37] way anything can end right by and large people always go like you know that that's the standard I feel like people go like this ending was so bad it's almost as if it was all a dream again there's that weird

[01:05:49] choice and then I promise we'll stop talking about this David there's that weird like doing my taxes I can tell wow wow there's that weird choice at the end when he's like flatlining that there's a shot of Lisa joy standing in the vestibule

[01:06:05] with her back turned to another joy everyone around his bed right which up until that point you're like well maybe the entire Lisa Joyce character is imagined because it's clearly he it's this buried thing he doesn't want to acknowledge that he did

[01:06:21] this terrible thing to a you know preteen girl but has he truly shown up at the house or is he just projecting her at that moment in the moment in the way he's just projecting it makes her in this movie the final moment when he's dying

[01:06:35] no isn't she the same actor who was his nurse at the beginning different actor looks very similar which is also confused I got to argue with that I thought that was part of the M fuck it's like inception it's the top spinning

[01:06:45] you know do with it what you will yeah so anyway perfect movie 10 out of 10 it's like the David Sims you know what I'm gonna Rachel you watch I can't believe producer Rachel was I'm not anywhere near what these actors can do yeah

[01:07:01] I'm not anywhere near what these actors can do but I'm age appropriate for this role 48 years old I've been master building my whole life now maybe a maybe my passion project is to do a master builder another master another master builder wow to do a amount of production

[01:07:17] yeah that would be great if you're a very away from this episode is I need to get my hand on builder I'm a white man I'm still important I need to make master builder I mean I've got I've got to replace Wallace Sean

[01:07:29] what if I go as master builder wholeness for all of you here comes Hodgman knock knock knock I'm coming ah you in you invited me okay box office game and then we'll talk about playing with bill movie for an hour fine let's play the box office game for

[01:07:43] a master builder a master builder which came out obviously this is a summer film July 25th 2014 do you think they added the viewing at number 69 nice at the box office do you think they retitle it out of the a at the beginning

[01:07:57] so there will come up earlier in VOD listings you know what was what was Stray goes take on why a makes a difference a difference in yeah just a funny line question so the original title was fear falling does that make the movie better or worse

[01:08:13] if it was called that worse yes yeah fear falling is a worst title it's a worst title it sounds it sounds like a TV episode yeah title you know what I mean like it's just and then you watch the movie and you're like it's just a master builder

[01:08:27] get the fuck out of here and he doesn't even fall right I would I would be so mad if I got tricked into watching this movie yes not realizing that it was the adaptation of a famous play thinking it

[01:08:37] was wall of Sean's taken that he was going to have his Euro revenge thriller fear of falling you know that trick where like movies that have played to festivals and no one likes and take two years to get distribution the distributors will often

[01:08:51] retitle it with an a at the beginning of the title so we'll show up earlier on airplanes and hotel VOD ending like a programming right it'll just be a blank whatever right I genuinely wonder if they retitle it for that reason but like I don't know if

[01:09:07] this is a movie worth it like we need that like SEO traffic baby yeah I don't think they necessarily cared if anyone ever I mean obviously they didn't make it to put it in a museum they wanted people to watch it sure it is

[01:09:19] weird this film cost $120 million I don't see it on screen there's just like one room that's entirely filled with fabric a and that was the issue also when he says to her of it well as one has a will stop trailer

[01:09:33] I got all my eggs there they are anyway like my eggs I'll give walla shun this the scene where he says to her I can't let Ragnar I can't let Ragnar become his own man I can't I can't let the sun rise again like Ragnar rise

[01:09:51] analyzing this film explicitly my morning with my wife this is like British Parliament I'm like trying to be like no more discourse we must file into the car doors now oh yeah the payment for your success is that you are unhappy and I am the agent of your

[01:10:11] unhappiness when he says I can't let Ragnar rise because then he will destroy me the same way I destroyed his father with the implication being like I believe the world is only a reflection of me the only way of thinking about this

[01:10:25] world is that everyone is just like me which is also an incredible expression of toxic masculine identity like that's like everyone's a monster so I can't let anyone win because they're all monsters it's great there's a lot in this thing

[01:10:37] there's little things good job Ibsen you wrote a good play here here's one final thing I want to say yeah the thing that I find most frustrating about this movie especially viewed as I do because I bought the fucking criteria in box that is my dinner with Andre

[01:10:51] Vonan 42nd Street and this in a nice little slip case we love a slip they are presenting this to me as these are three films that are of a piece in some kind of way is that Andre Gregory and Wallace Sean have so little screen time together

[01:11:03] yeah he's got this one scene at the beginning which even though it's not fucking riveting as like these two men who have had this legendary partnership that's lasted for decades there's a little juice to the fact that you're watching them as old men talking about their own

[01:11:17] mortality and I was like okay this is kind of interesting for them to choose this material and then Andre Gregory is gone for the remaining one hour and 45 minutes he dies off screen dies off screen yes anyway box office game box office game

[01:11:29] okay one more thing I want to say no haha July 25th 2014 okay I was recently I was pretty new to the Atlantic I saw the number one film on this list is screening I remember I brought Shirley Lee did you review it ah yes I did um and

[01:11:47] I remember Shirley was a fairly new she was a fellow the great sure fellow at the Atlantic wire and I was like and you had a plus one I was like hey when come see Lucy we want to see Lucy

[01:11:57] probably one of the first time I hung out with her so that's number one film on this list you told me what the number one film fuck right I just said it sorry whatever oh boy Lucy yeah but can you tell me what Lucy open to

[01:12:09] and uh this is first weekend 45 43 yeah and what was its final domestic total 115 126 cool and it's worldwide 460 457 I mean you're very close on all three but also Lucy yeah it was a hit it was an ambiguous massive success it was a big hit

[01:12:31] a very silly movie about a lady whose brain gets so smart she can stop time made by a notorious creep yes um that has a great car chase and at the end she turns into spoiler alert end of master builder

[01:12:43] he dies end of Lucy she turns into a USB drive that movie is bug have you seen that movie she literally turns into a USB she becomes the internet in that movie that movie is so bizarre right because it's like a scarlett Johansson like high concept

[01:12:57] action movie right where it's like what if a woman kept on getting smarter every 10 minutes right and her smartness translated into her being able to physically warp real anyone in the world she becomes a master builder she got a special brain

[01:13:09] powers right it goes on fire it goes from her being like Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes smart where she can like beat me one in a fight because she can anticipate what they're going to do to her becoming like Neo where she can like warp the reality

[01:13:21] around them in order to beat them through the air just by doing this and then the last 20 minutes of the movie are like to the end of 2001 chair being like I'm turning into a USB drive this is why there's almost no dialogue it's like abstract like sound

[01:13:35] and visuals it's it's it's yeah made by horrible person who directed it look this on look this on there are a lot of creepy master builders out there a lot of there are yeah Francis favorite master you know who

[01:13:47] you know who isn't this what's so interesting about it John Jonathan Demi no like a mensch he's a he's a total man generous thoughtful men she never like it's so weird that he very modern yeah he made this movie as a favor

[01:13:58] but it goes against his entire it seems to be his entire creative worldview correct all right good yeah I agree on that number two at the box office job we did also directed by a Hollywood creep oh it's opening this weekend a fully

[01:14:12] forgotten film action is it a rattner it's a Brett Ratner is it hercules hercules hercules where he's doing the rock Johnson oh five years ago there was a movie in which the rock played hercules directed by Brett Ratner right no one remembers ever

[01:14:28] existed no one would ever admit to it no Ian McShane is in it and Joseph finds yeah Rebecca Ferguson is in it really she is wow hmm it made two hundred and forty three million dollars at the worldwide box office not great

[01:14:42] but you know nothing yeah so weird but his film ever budget was what well because there any way to find out there is there is it's just because now box office mojo its budget apparently is listed as one hundred million dollars

[01:14:57] fair fair chunk of charge I feel like this was like the next rock movie after this is San Andreas where he finally becomes like a fully in his own right box office draw and he's finally bald yes I can only gonna be bald this

[01:15:10] he's got a long way to go long hair he's got a full beard yeah number three at the box office is a huge hit of the year it's the middle in a trilogy July this is July okay middle film in a

[01:15:25] trilogy but it's part of a much larger more unwieldy series it's been rebooted a couple times so it's a sub trilogy well I think go ahead is it is it a plan of the gates on yeah right that's correct one of that Reeves is dawn of the

[01:15:42] planet of the a movie that I think that's the really good is a masterpiece I've never seen the last one war for the planet of the it's the last one I think is how is the one everyone liked okay

[01:15:52] and I'm a big fan of that franchise and I was very surprised by the responses to that one which I thought the second one deserved and I got oh wait what the third one war yeah which also the titles are flipped it a hundred percent

[01:16:07] the total is our rise and then don't that's what's flipped right the first one should be dawn on the second I'm right and the third one should be war whatever it should be dawn noon twilight yes yeah Shanghai night the planets of the

[01:16:21] apes I don't think we need to name okay sorry about magic hour of the planet don't don't night gloaming of the apes what I was gonna say is I feel like the second one got respect and then the third one people like overreacted some people overreacted

[01:16:35] to it but it also slightly underperformed and it did get a little I feel like there was a little more of a sort of like why is this movie so crushingly depressing yeah I think the second one got a perfect balance I'm a big Matt

[01:16:47] Reeves fan Jason Clark I think works really well Nick Darrylman I think works really well and it's got the best human characters of the three I agree Russell is very good in it sure she's in it yeah I like it a lot yeah have

[01:17:00] you've seen that one that's the only one that I've seen I've not seen rise nor have I seen I think that's the great one and when I recommend people those films I recommend that one yeah because I think the first one's got a big James Franco problem and

[01:17:14] I think the third one's a little too heavy handed the James Franco problem beyond his own is he is pretty detached in that move oh that's my problem personal politics aside I think that is very much him in his performance are a

[01:17:27] stage of isn't it weird that I'm in a blockbuster I know he's just a little movie is not bad it's not bad it's not bad it's well made the rest of the cast is fairly good he and Freda Pinto are very

[01:17:37] boring Pinto yeah but let's go is great in it a yellow was good in it lift us fine he's doing his thing I think he's pretty great right oh I'm just an old man sitting over here now like it's just like that phase you're forgetting

[01:17:50] that he's like told dementia zone I know I think he's very good he's doing his fucking thing anyway love him I'll always I love him to be clear I like it yeah well I can't believe I burned all my bridges with walla shawnt fears this

[01:18:02] is gonna be so mad at me can we we stand a legend love all three of us that clears it yeah we clear the okay okay number four okay at the box office is a horror sequel it's a horror sequel

[01:18:16] it's conjuring to no I is it is it a second film or is it later I'm trying to remember where this is I believe it's the second it's not a you know there's no number in the time interesting it is the second installment in a

[01:18:31] I believe ongoing horror franchise the second installment the film made total 71 domestic one one one worldwide wow more of an American franchise yeah I believe it's a blum house yes it's a Blum house is it insidious huh and it's is it a perch yes so the second

[01:18:53] one be anarchy correct the first really good one I would say the first Grillo made my favorite yeah one time that's a good franchise one time I stayed up late and I out of sheer self-punishing curiosity I decided to watch Atlas shrugged oh they're like

[01:19:11] strange like libertarian indeed thing yeah yeah maybe at least two are there more they made they ended up making three yeah but they get they did progressively worse the market did not reward these movies and the budget gets cut and they

[01:19:25] have to watch the first one is Taylor Shilling right is John Colt yeah good question ever got to the end but I don't sleep for belowers I yeah so it's a big it's a big libertarian movie and I fell asleep in the middle of it and

[01:19:42] then I woke up and I watched the second half of the purge and I was like that's a good movie yeah those two those two together make sense right sure right you say that would one would follow on from the other I was like how many times

[01:19:54] and rent has come up in this she's come up a couple times old Randy Randy fast and Randy Newman she's very fascinating my old roommate once dated somebody who made her read the fountain head we were like great great yeah yeah I've never

[01:20:10] read the fountain head I don't I've read most of Atlas shrugged I felt like after page right a monologue after page 419 I got the gist yeah you don't want to get to 420 plays it read you loud and clear imagine how awful and rance podcast

[01:20:27] would be her whole channel on the Joe Rogan network it would be wild she'd be smoking pot with Rogan right she would have one of those Elon Musk's cyber trucks that'll be like this is an architecture if you actually want if

[01:20:40] you if you made a master builder with Elon Musk but it's about the cyber truck are you telling me how to how to build my masterpiece I just look up someday look up on YouTube any of iron rance appearances on the Phil Donahue show oh it's great

[01:20:58] she's hilarious and she knows exactly what she's doing her Twitter threads imagine her fucking at replies her debate me powers he was really funny she was really I don't know obviously I'm not a fan of no but she had work or the philosophy necessarily

[01:21:14] comedian she was she had real time yeah she knows like also like a freeride person for many so we're every way weird number five is a film from the Walt Disney Corporation oh an animated film I will give you no further

[01:21:28] clues because I want to see how far this goes July 2014 animated film animated film was it produced by Walt Disney himself animation yeah they were they got the head out for this one they got the head out of the freezer they woke him up

[01:21:46] let me look that I'm wondering if it is that's or if it is one of like the sub labels or whatever I don't want to tell you I'm not going to tell you is it planes yes but which fire and rescue this is hoping we could

[01:22:00] drag that out for a second it's planes fire and rescue the sequel to planes correct correct which is sort of a spin-off of cars definitely a spin-off of cars there's no interconnected universe there right there is they like named McQueen it's the philosophically unsupportable cars of her

[01:22:20] I think I'm building the planes I think I've told this why are there planes why do you need to go I believe I can drive everywhere I believe I've told this on the show before but when I worked at the Disney

[01:22:32] store humble brag yeah one time I was in the employee break room lunch and all these Disney employee magazines around which they would leave these magazines around that were all the like selling points of upcoming Disney projects in the hopes that you would parrot them back to customers

[01:22:49] okay and it's the pro vda of Disney right right so I was like in the break room with a co-worker who had the magazine which was the cars to issue sure and she was like have you seen these movies and I was like yeah

[01:23:03] and then I went off in the spiel of the spiel that we all love to go on weird that that's all the weird questions what is this where to happen and she genuinely only life on earth is a technology designed to service different kind of

[01:23:15] life right that doesn't exist right she genuinely leaned into me and in a hushed conspiratorial tone said you shouldn't talk about that too loudly around here I'd be careful we're cool but I'd be careful who you shared those opinions around right and look yeah just as

[01:23:35] just as we got clear of criticizing Wallace Sean by saying we stand a legend Disney I stan you yeah please don't please don't fire me from culture I would like to work in a thing but it was kind of incredible I hear lightning McQueen has been cancelled

[01:23:51] he cachaoed one time too many wow Mater indeed there is no character overlap but it is clearly established to taking place in the same universe right it's the same concept of what if we put eyes in the windows of a vehicle planes fire and rescue came out

[01:24:09] nine months after the first are they rancid you saying other planes land vehicles like because they're not rescuing humans humans okay can I say this now that we're in this corridor actually I have something to say about frozen whenever you're done just remind me

[01:24:30] talk about a lot 100% thank you because I assume I'm the only person in this room who has seen cars too correct correct so the crux of course thank you producer Rachel the crux of cars to yeah is Eddie is heard as a scam artist sort of Richard Branson

[01:24:48] style rebel billionaire who claims that he has come up but what is money to make his money what is money to be by fuel is that their food well he claims that he has come up with a better fuel okay all right

[01:25:02] that he has come up with a more are there cars that are you that's silent this is where the shit gets so messy because there would be interesting if it were an Elon Musk if there was a car based on Elon Musk that looked like Tesla

[01:25:14] saying I'm gonna change the way cars are made right this is a little pre- rise of Elon Musk so Richard Branson was like the type they were going after the character styled like that it feels like an Andy is a clean impression of Richard Branson I'm crazy

[01:25:28] I like to do things different ways and he's explaining there's a scene in which the movie grinds to a halt and he presses play with his little wheel on a video what that is selling like a pitch reel on I forget what it's called

[01:25:42] but it's called like eco fuel or whatever right his new green fuel alternative right that's the whole idea the movie is centered around this conspiracy right this false sort of a solution to the fuel shortage that is crippling the world of cars and in the video yeah

[01:26:02] they explained to the it's clearly to make this clear to the children that fuel as we know it is fossil fuel which comes from dinosaur bones and in the video they show animation of dinosaurs them dying the dinosaur skeletons being buried in the ground and extracting

[01:26:20] the fuel from that sure millennia later yeah so they are so it's a it's a it's a it's an alternate universe there's a split in the timeline because it is not after the mass extinction event instead of primates evolving proto cars they make a very

[01:26:36] clear choice because at this point in the movie when there are vehicles swarming around or I'm sorry when there are insects swarming around the vehicles right the camera will zoom in and the insects are little cars with wings really everything in this universe

[01:26:50] is some sort of fucking vehicle right show an organic dinosaur and explain that it's bones have led to the fuel that they run off of in this day. Wouldn't it be awesome if the dinosaur was truchosaurus? That's a thing they could have so cleanly showed a monster

[01:27:08] truck. Can I just swerve us out of the cars averse Dusty Crophopper is the lead character in Plains he is a fucking cropped dusting plane dink hook of course he plays a cropped dusting plane who wants to become a plane racer. Am I dying? Is this my fever

[01:27:28] dream? Clean fire and rescue released only nine months after the first planes is him reverting back to what he was built to do which is extinguish fires of course just to shout out something I want to talk about Olaf some of the other top tens pin and Olaf

[01:27:50] although it's hard to put a pin and he's made us know sex tape number six I believe Cameron Diaz his last film Annie comes after that. Same year. Transformers age of extinction the fourth one The worst? We always argue this. But four is really bad

[01:28:08] but it has the moment where the the transformer turns into a dinosaur and Ken Watanabe says I thought it would be a huge car It's just incredible. Ken Watanabe of course playing a samurai transformer and so it goes What's that one again?

[01:28:26] Is that Diane Keaton and Morgan Freeman? Michael Douglas. And it's Rob Reiner? And that's just one of those where the title sounds like someone just letting air out of him and so it goes It's like who's gonna one two and so it goes please Fear of falling.

[01:28:42] And so it goes the perfect explanation for why we will never do a Rob Reiner mini series because the last decade he has made ten of those. Yeah which is why we, well we can talk about it but the first film that he made

[01:28:54] is in the top ten, Tammy A very bizarre film. Very strange film and then a most High concept comedy with no concept And then a most wanted man It was the most McCarthy follow up to To like her her running success

[01:29:10] It's the first film that her husband directed it's her blank check It's the beginning of the McCarthy verse Right and New Line was like whatever you want to make you're clearly the next star and all the other Falcone movies which are not good have a very clean

[01:29:24] high concept premise like she goes back to college it's this kind of person in this sort of setting and that one has no premise whatsoever It's very bizarre I will not see it Susan Sarandon plays her grandmother and Allison Janney plays her mother A most wanted man

[01:29:42] It's just a film, see more Hoffman His final real performance His first posthumous performance I think came out right after An incredible performance What movie is that? John McCarrie kind of like a most A most wanted man John McCarrie adaptation directed by Antoine Corbin That sounds good

[01:30:00] I like Defoe Robin Wright Yeah Olaf is a snowman Yes He comes to life when Elsa's powers activate They wanted to build Tom Correct, they sang a whole song about it He's capable of creating life That's like question 3 that I have Recently

[01:30:28] now that Disney Plus exists of course all these movies are accessible with the touch of a button Forky put on frozen Okay but say it like you mean it Shut the fuck up and do that name with love Oh my god Forky is taking a

[01:30:42] Jesus Christ, Forky put on frozen Forky had a reason I don't want to reveal too much about my fiance who is of course a spork Put on frozen We're watching the relationship is doomed And if you remember there's a scene in frozen After Anna gets like

[01:30:56] blasted with ice powers the trolls specifically say like an act of love will heal you And then they interpret it as well as I must mean a true love's kiss and of course in frozen the twist is like No, no kissing needed No famous princess needed

[01:31:10] It's not about romance, sisterly love Which is fine Sisters are doing it for themselves Very true However, before all that goes down Anna is locked in a room by her mean and you know fiance and she's dying Olaf rescues her Olaf a snowman brought to life

[01:31:30] through Elsa's ice magic Yes, and he is starting to melt He's about to die By rescuing her and Joanne Forky Asked isn't this kind of an act of love? That should count This kind of count And I was like Olaf is sentient

[01:31:50] Is he alive? Does he have a soul? Well this is like the premise of Ted too Which is wait can Elsa create full life and we're not really going to talk about it She creates that big monster Who's really kind of just a sentry

[01:32:04] I mean he doesn't sing any songs Olaf sings a whole song There's a frozen short film in which she creates a race of little snow babies named Snow G's They're created solely to push merchandise You're kidding me, Disney would never make such a decision The Snow G's

[01:32:18] But like it's not addressed and obviously the climax of the movie has to be your sisters but like it's a fair question Like where does Olaf fall on the like fully alive scale You want to know if it's okay to hunt an Olaf

[01:32:30] The most dangerous game at all This is Is it morally acceptable? There's also a great Ted too question To kidnap an Olaf and bring it to your state and hunt it There's a great scene Olaf jokes that actually makes me laugh I can't remember

[01:32:48] after they fall down and they're like oh he didn't break anything and Olaf says I don't have a skull or bones And like it's Gad delivers it funny and it's like a laugh line Olaf is weird in the first movie He's good in the first movie but better

[01:33:02] His song is kind of annoying But like it's another where you're like right You are just snow You're just feeling Where does life begin I think that you're correct Is he animate or alive? And in both But you don't feel bad about that

[01:33:20] when it's under the Disney banner But you do feel bad about it when it's under the Pixar banner The Pixar banner is all about The rules of the universe They are very into the rules And exploring Yeah that's right Pixar is famously run by Jeremy Strong's character

[01:33:38] from Surrendabay Who is the rules No it's weird And also in both Frozen and Frozen 2 Olaf dies And the film ends with Elsa being like Don't worry I can bring him back to life He is reconstituted from new snow in a different place with all of his memories

[01:33:56] Like in the first movie In both of them he melts And fully disappears But is she bringing him back to life with his memories? And then he disappears in the first one He melts but is there still Really? Because in the second one he fully disappears

[01:34:12] In her arms there's a death scene Which feels like I was just like, Yon can this movie be over But like I feel like if you're some parent with like a four year old child It's just like why do they insert this scene It just brings anguish

[01:34:26] And I have to have a conversation with them in the middle of a film Olaf will be okay I'm sure I would resent that if I had a young child 100% Don't look at me, I don't have young children No I assume your kids

[01:34:40] Their totemic Disney movie was not Frozen It was some earlier That's a good question Was there like one in regular rotation in the Hodgman household? House of Hodgman's? There was A weird one that my son got into Was Meet the Robinsons That makes a lot of sense

[01:35:02] Oh really? I have met your son He is a lovely young man Thank you I think that movie's pretty charming When he was 12 You came over to my house for lunch after building that church All I did was innocently promise Your son that one day

[01:35:20] I would make him a prince Sorry It was terrible on every level I never loved Disney classic animation It was not something I would necessarily choose to put on Other than maybe like this And so now I realize

[01:35:36] That the reason my son didn't really get into Disney movies Was he and I were too busy watching iClaudius But that period is like Bolt, Meet the Robinsons I'm on the range, chicken little Meet the Robinsons is definitely the best of that era I think Bolt's fun

[01:35:52] It's got a dog I think Bolt's kind of crappy I think you're with a dog That's fine My name is John Hodgman I've got a book out called Medallion Status And a podcast called Judge John Hodgman

[01:36:06] This episode is not over because we gotta talk about the plane mobile movie I'm replugging I'm replugging because I feel like people are starting to go around I think I've heard everything here Also, Elliot Kalin and I I have recorded a 12 episode mini series about the iClaudius PBC 1976

[01:36:22] mini series called Ipodius that will be dropping soon from maximum fun It's a lot of fun If all has gone according to plan We'll have already been a guest on this very many series Oh great I hope everything goes according to plan I hope so too

[01:36:40] We'll have been our guest on the Mentoring Candidate episode Maybe maybe it'll all go Catastrophically wrong Sounds like a movie I might have wanted to watch Alright, so plane mobile is great The toys That was definitely a huge part of both of my children's A German building toy

[01:37:02] Well, this is what's interesting about plane mobile It's like sets that come unassembled but are not sold as a building toy They're like snapped into place The only reason they're unassembled is to get them in the box The fun isn't like putting it together

[01:37:18] The fun is having it be put together It's a production toy It cannot be rebuilt in any other way What makes plane mobile fascinating is while there are fantastical themes While there are castles and dragons A lot of plane mobile is very banal

[01:37:34] It's like a plane mobile gas station And very European Very banal And dull Here's a beach house No, it's true At the seaside They're drinking lemonade And these characters are so untroubled You're like, I think they probably have universal health care Right They probably have good health care

[01:37:58] They probably get a lot of vacation time There's something very serene and sort of un-dramatic and dare I say it unimaginative about the world of plane mobile The only one that's complicated at all is the plane mobile play set that's based on the Ibsen Play Master Builder

[01:38:16] But that is what a plane bill set looks like Is this the Nyak house from a master builder The fun part of plane mobile is that the humans first of all you can get them as pirates as vikings, as knights regular European 9 weeks of vacation people Sometimes

[01:38:39] you get an Easter set and all the humans have bunny heads which are horrifying and you don't construct the sets but you can deconstruct the humans and create weird combinations of wardrobe and human body parts that are really awesome Weird unintended modularity You can change their hair

[01:39:01] Your hair pops off You can put a ghost sheet over one of them They make a very satisfying sort of clicky sound when you bend them at the waist I had a big dream probably going back to 2007 or so that I was going to do

[01:39:19] like a, I think it wasn't even Instagram wasn't a thing, it was like Flickr I was going to create a Flickr account that was just photographs of wildly weirded modded out plane mobiles in the most surreal and disturbing tableaus Like one plane mobile human surrounded by 100 plane mobile

[01:39:39] rabbit heads and I've never done it I'm now going to do it I have two projects now Mount, Ibsen's Master Builder and film it Yes, another master builder and get Ted Demi to direct it and um and this plane mobile project

[01:39:59] but now I can't because it's going to turn into a movie Well they did So right after the release of the Lego movie a film that everyone scoffed at when it was announced How can they make a movie out of Lego Lord and Miller who are very smart

[01:40:11] about getting to the core of the material they're asked to adapt really tapped into the heart of what is the relationship that people have with Lego, what does it get out of you when you build a set

[01:40:23] your imagination, what does it speak to if you are someone who follows the instructions versus not and the sort of expansive world and how wild the Lego themes are and the iconography you can deal with that and also the fact that Lego at that point

[01:40:33] covered a bunch of intellectual properties, there were a lot of license properties they could get to. There's a lot of backdoor Batman stuff you can get in there secretly. Plane Mobile only started doing license properties in the last like two years

[01:40:45] What did they license? How to train your dragon and Ghostbusters I believe are the only two and now they're about to do back to the future but it does not have that sort of expansive world building it does not have the same sort of like

[01:40:57] oh we all know what Lego astronauts look like and what those spaceships look like, you know? They're not iconic to do the same way. Right, there's not as clear of a sensibility. You can do a Google search for the weirdest plane of the old

[01:41:09] play sets that exist and the thing that's weird about them is their banality. Why would any kid want to play with this? There is a plane of the movies about the banality of evil. Well, there are, I mean they discontinued the play, these are more for

[01:41:21] middle-aged men than for children because there's a collectability issue. I think so but they still exist. They're discontinued play sets Yes. That you can get online Yes. Including the one that I've been chasing which is the German police officer rousing a hobo Exactly. Off a park bench

[01:41:39] That's like a perfect Identification please Where are your papers? Of the Playmobil sense of You know that game papers please? Please do not leave the outside the law Alright, anyway we have lots of treatment centers for your addiction Playmobil the movie. So like the week after even that

[01:42:01] two days after the Lego movie opens huge and becomes this like critically beloved film. A German or European film company announces that they are going to self-finance a 75 million dollar animated Playmobil film How could you not feel that temptation? Which had some weird title at the time like

[01:42:19] Playmobiles Spies and Robbers Yeah, I had more action packed I can't believe I believe the concept was a trilogy initially a Playmobil trilogy. I can't believe that this missed me I should have known I should have been asked to participate I think Well, I agree with that

[01:42:37] about everything. Bob Percietti Is originally a tense to Percietti I think? Yes To write and direct this film he is just a consummate pro in the animation world has worked a thousand jobs on a thousand different projects

[01:42:49] and this is going to be his first time really stepping up to the plate It would be his directorial debut He had worked on many of the Shrek films things like that. So he's writing and directing this film at this point in time Sony is considering acquiring

[01:43:03] this film which is only in pre-production developmental stages. Sure Because Lego Movie was such a hit Sony is trying to look for more licensed animated properties They end up making the emoji movie instead but I think that was sort of the coin toss this was in

[01:43:15] Sony can't come to terms The movie falls apart but Sony is impressed with Bob Percietti enough that they go look and let's be honest the plan both might not actually make it to the finish line

[01:43:29] Do you want to come over here and work on a film we have all over at Sony Animation So what do you have in the hopper they said well we're trying to make a Spider-Man animated film Bob Percietti becomes one of the Academy Award

[01:43:39] winning directors of Into the Spider-Verse Oh One of the best career decisions One of the craziest swings along with Peter Ramsey Yes, the great Peter Ramsey and Rodney Rothman Lord and Miller Yes But he's the first director attached on Spider-Verse which only happened because of him

[01:44:01] pitching Sony on Playmobil and for him to leave Playmobil which at the time seemed to be moving ahead ended up being the greatest sliding doors decision in anyone's career ever I think that if I were in Bob Percietti's head I might be able to make an argument

[01:44:19] if Sony came to me and said I know you're making a movie about this esoteric European toy brand Yes That's probably going to be as big as the movie about asterisks I mean that's what the kind of possibility they're hoping for those European big bucks

[01:44:39] I remember those Playmobil play sets with cops and robbers in them and my favorite part was the European money the robbers were obviously stealing all the different colors Spider-Man is more interesting Think about this Would you rather work on Spider-Man?

[01:44:55] Yes, but let's say at this point in time the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies have not started their run No, no, we're three years from three years off So it seems like Sony is fucking just completely torpedoing that ship You know you're coming post Garfield

[01:45:13] the idea of them making an animated film seemed like what are they doing They made no sense when I heard about it Ended up much like the Lego movie being a wild surprise in terms of how awesome it is and by the way it's better than any other

[01:45:29] movie pretty much Great decision on Prashetti's part they hire a man who's name I'm forgetting Tony but who was the supervising animator on Frozen They were like get us someone who was involved in a big hit Correct So the film develops over the last four years

[01:45:49] the rights are originally sold to Open Road the distributor that was a collaboration between AMC and Regal I'm so glad I got my plugs in before this Open Road goes out of business The film is completely abandoned STX which has been waffling around bankruptcy for the last year

[01:46:09] gets the rights for almost nothing a song we need someone to release this and over 2,000 screens will sell it to you for almost no money I hope you're pitching the story as a book It might I don't know what happened I don't know the outcome

[01:46:31] According to the deadline they spend about a million dollars on marketing mostly in theater cardboard standees And the film comes out on 2,300 screens nationwide the week after Frozen 2 opens True. Oh it just happened This behemoth of American animation This episode comes out a couple months old

[01:46:53] but we cannot stop talking about it They release it the week after Frozen 2 and in its opening weekend on 2,300 screens the Playmobil movie or as it's called Playmobil The Movie which has been pushed back five times makes 600,000 dollars Is it that much they made? Yes. 600?

[01:47:13] Which averages out to 34 dollars a screen That was on day one I believe it pushed its per-app first screen average to 200 So we're like adult tickets cost how much kids tickets cost how much we're doing the math and David and I are breaking it down

[01:47:29] and we're like the amount of screenings mathematically of the Playmobil movie that over the course of these three days have been completely empty is astonishing I mean mathematically there has to have been hundreds if not thousands of show times that zero people showed up to

[01:47:49] So sad. It drops off even further by Monday it's making 13 dollars per screen so that is every theater that is playing that movie multiple times a day is making a grand total of 13 dollars But then we find out the thing that completely blows our mind which is Playmobil

[01:48:07] the first time a distributor has successfully sold to the exhibitors, the movie theaters the idea of variable pricing. What if to make a movie more appetizing? In fact there's no variable pricing. There's one price it's just not the usual price nationwide. This is the big deal

[01:48:27] nationwide in every theater in North America bar for like one chain that exempted but probably isn't playing it anyway. 97% of theater something like that. Even in New York City where movie tickets cost $500 right? Every showing of the Playmobil movie for adults seniors and children alike

[01:48:45] is five dollars. Wow. No joke. No matter where you saw it the Playmobil movie cost five dollars Wow. And the movie is making 13 dollars a day per theater across multiple show times despite the involvement of Daniel Radcliffe Jim Gaffigan Anja Taylor-Joy Megan Trainer

[01:49:11] because Deadline will always do when it's box office report like what was the social impact? Yes. And Deadline was like the cast didn't acknowledge the film on their Twitter feed Megan Trainer had one tweet that was the extent of it. Yes. This may be the only

[01:49:27] movie or television product that I do not resent not being in. So this is the first one. Yeah. Anything else? David asked me last night he said when we were texting about the Playmobil movie while attempting to watch a Master Builder he asked me do you think

[01:49:47] if you asked Daniel Radcliffe at gunpoint if he was in the Playmobil movie he would admit that he was. He wouldn't acknowledge it. I said no. He would take the bullet because at least then he could die with pride. That was

[01:50:01] my analysis. He would rather die. Now the biggest question we posed was weird guys who are tapped in were paying attention to weird trends in the industry and box office and such. You're probably the most tapped in guys that I know. We did

[01:50:15] not know that this movie cost five dollars. I don't care if their marketing campaign was that limited the posters for this movie should have just been white paper in the right dimensions with a sharpie saying this movie cost five dollars. They should have retitled it that?

[01:50:33] You don't even say the name of the movie you just say like this is what I was saying. The theaters have seats that are very comfortable. You can sit in one. Two hours. It should be called free heat or air conditioning. They have roofs, they have

[01:50:49] walls. You want to sit in a room probably alone. And then they could add the disclaimer. If it's you're alone in there we'll turn the volume down. They should have taken the movie to be quiet? They should have taken out the seats and put in

[01:51:05] desktops. Turn it into an internet cafe. We'll turn the movie off entirely if that's what you want. This is just a shared workspace. All we need from you is our five dollars. Playmobil by WeWork. You should have pitched the Playmobil movie as the new

[01:51:21] communal workspace. The film has 17% of Rotten Tomatoes. Which shocked me. Shockingly hot. Most of the 17% positive reviews seem to be from Spanish language reviewers. It leads me to believe that maybe the Spanish dub of this movie is just a little crisp. The dialogue is funny

[01:51:43] or something. I can't imagine there's a lot of sync up you need to do with their little mouths. You can probably say whatever you want. I don't know. I don't know. It just is one of those things where you're like, can we have a conversation

[01:51:59] over whether or not this is a money laundering operation? Whether everyone is going to see that movie is actually laundering money. That struck my I thought that would be a case. I'm going to pay cash for my Playmobil ticket. Here you go

[01:52:11] five dollars hands over bag of money. Because the one thing that was made clear was STX barely had to pay for the movie. Literally STX is just doing a distribution job. And usually with those distribution jobs, part of it is even if we're not

[01:52:25] going to charge you much for the film, you have to guarantee us you will spend ten million dollars advertising it. And apparently it was like just throw a million at it just throw one million at it all in and you got the movie.

[01:52:37] But it had to be released on over two thousand screens contractually. The movie has already opened almost everywhere else in the rest of the world which I think they thought was going to be their money maker. I think it's been more of a money maker.

[01:52:49] It has made in total, I believe thirteen million dollars overseas. It's more than three hundred grand or whatever. It cost seventy five. No it didn't. It cost forty. Really? Yes. I believe that its budget was downscaled after I don't know someone had a conversation with someone

[01:53:05] about what was going on. Magically transported to the fantastical world of Playmobil a team joins forces with a bumbling secret agent and an adventurous truck driver to save her captive brother from an evil emperor. Sounds good. Emperor? Whatever. Fine. Sounds good. Seriously the thing that's fascinating

[01:53:23] about this movie. I feel like it should be like a bureaucrat in Playmobil, right? Like to save from an evil, you know, defense minister. This is another thing. I don't know. It should just be a parliamentarian debate. Exactly. You're saying the Playmobil movie should be

[01:53:37] like state of play. Yeah exactly. It should have been a huge metaphor for Brexit. I mean that. Boy. It made Oogie Loves money. It made Oogie Loves money. It's going to end up well under a million.

[01:53:47] The final thing I want to say about it that's kind of fascinating is that when the Lego movie was first announced before Lord and Miller came on and Biola Counts rewrote it from the ground up, the original script that Warner Brothers had developed that was largely thrown out

[01:54:05] was about a father who plays Legos with his children and then is transported magically into the Lego world. Sure. Sure. That's sort of the Lord business character and Chris Pratt's character were supposed to be one in the same. Right. And the live action dad who was originally announced

[01:54:19] to be Chris Pratt was going to get sucked in and be a Lego figure for the rest of the movie. Which they very quickly realized. Getting sucked into the world? Tired some. Who gives a shit? Fathers hired. Worse than a dream sequence.

[01:54:29] Worse than it was all a dream of that. And then the Playmobil movie ended up on the concept that the Lego movie threw out after the Lego franchise had completely milked itself dry with three entries and four years and ran out of all their goodwill. Yes. Five dollars.

[01:54:47] Anyway, that's the Playmobil movie. I'm glad we got that plug in early. What if when the... For your sake I wish we could chart in real time the listenership of this episode. I think we have like... I think you actually can. Really?

[01:55:03] See when people tap out. Rachel please send me that data. Sure. In three months. I think we turned this podcast into an almost empty communal workspace. Can I just make a prediction? Is that a Playmobil set? Yeah, exactly. There surely is a Playmobil set of this communal workspace.

[01:55:17] No question. Can I make a prediction? Get a little Adam Newman Playmobil figure. Yes, go ahead. Because this episode's going to come out in several months the Playmobil movie has just been released in theaters the day we're recording this

[01:55:29] which means it's probably one day away from being removed from theaters. By the time this episode comes out it will presumably be on digital platforms. Yeah. Do you think that they are going to make a similar sort of strategic move to make the Playmobil movie

[01:55:41] seem like a better value on digital platforms? Oh, it'll be available for like 99 cents. Or do you think day one they will pay you a dollar if you download the Playmobil movie? Do you think there is some weird performance data where the money laundering

[01:55:55] is more successful if they can sell the idea of more business than that? No, they're going to swing the other way. They'll be like only real Playboy heads understand 99 bucks for Playboy. It's going to be like the Bambi, you know it's going to cost $80,000

[01:56:07] to get the Playmobil movie on iTunes. Do we count the numbers? There's 70 of you. When are we doing the Playmobil episode? So, my friend. Oh, you saw that. Yeah, there's something like a 2020 Patreon goal. Okay, Hodgin just held up the photo. This is the

[01:56:23] police are costing a tramp. Why not on a bench Playmobil set? So, you have to understand it's it's clearly like, you know, like early 20s. He has a little German spike tail. The policeman has a German spike tail. The homeless man is

[01:56:41] a Napoleonic war zero. The homeless man's very cute. He's got a little flower in his hat. No, he's a classic early 20th century caricature of the whole boat. He has a bindle. He doesn't have a wine bottle. And he's on a bench. That's the whole set.

[01:56:55] We should buy that. And then yes in Patreon, I don't know 6000 patrons we do a Playmobil episode with John Hodgin. We should figure out the math Wait a minute. What do I get out of that Patreon? Why are you roping me in the pay-moo?

[01:57:09] I can get this set for $55. $55? Yeah, right now. How much are you paying me for this? $56, right? I got two sets. Come out and buck ahead. Here's a promise I'm going to make right now. Okay? The Playmobil number is going to be really easy to break down

[01:57:27] because we just have to take the final gross and divide it by five, right? And we'll find out how many people paid to see that movie in theaters with no price fluctuation. If our Patreon count exceeds the number of people who saw

[01:57:43] the Playmobil movie in theaters, we will do a Playmobil episode. Okay. Yeah, whatever you say. I'm just looking at weird Playmobil online. So it's like 125,000. One of the things about Playmobil being European is that there's a lot more drinking in Playmobil sets. Yes.

[01:57:59] There's a lot more wine and beer. So this episode has definitely passed the expiration point. Thank you very much for listening. Hey, thank you very much for having me to buy again. What a pleasure. I mean, if this turns out to just be my favorite dream

[01:58:11] before death, I'll die happy. Kind of feels like it at this point. I know. It feels like the temperature in the room has shifted. This episode has hit two hours. Right on the nugget? I mean a little over. I'm sure they'll be smetting.

[01:58:23] Maybe we should bump it up. Try to make it to 30. Trying some other stuff to add. Enough! Thank you. Hadrin, just because this episode is coming out for a couple months, if you like are sprung up in the middle of the night with some more burning thoughts

[01:58:35] on Master Builder, please self-record them and send them to producer retail. Oh yeah, no, I'll definitely like... I had another idea and I am definitely going to... Everyone needs to hear my ideas. Griffin, David, it's me again. Voice mail. Another thing about the movie is...

[01:58:53] Hey, next week we're going to announce what the following miniseries is. Which I think is an exciting one. We'll tell you off Mike. Alright, tell me now and bleep it out. What? They said... Truly thought that I was having a stroke.

[01:59:18] That's great. Well three B's because you have to cut out what he thought I said. Yes. Thank you all for listening. By the way, that theme sounds incredible. I can't wait to listen. Right? I think that'll be a good one. It's going to be great.

[01:59:35] And people haven't been guessing it. No, they haven't. People guessed our original plans which we then changed. We did have to change some plans. Not because of the guess, but because of other cultural forces. Correct. Oh... Which I'll talk about off Mike. Hodgman, thank you for being here.

[01:59:53] Thank you as always. You're a gentleman and a scholar. No, I don't kill him. No, no. I'm just knocking on his door. You need him to write something on your drawings. Just write something on my drawings. Just write something on your drawings.

[02:00:09] So my father can die knowing that I accomplished something that I got while Sean's autographed. And that's a joke for the heads. Medallion status. Yeah, that's my book of funny true stories about me. And you should try to plug it more. Bit.ly slash medallion status.

[02:00:27] Judge John Hodgman available every week at Maximumfun.org and keep an eye out for I-Podius. Yes. The 12 part very special mini series of podcasts about the very special mini series from 1976 called I-Claudius. Yes. And thank all of you for listening and please remember to review,

[02:00:47] subscribe. Thanks to Andrew Gouda for our social media. Here's the thing I should have been saying for years now. Okay. Follow Blank Check Pod Sure. On Twitter and Instagram. That's true. She's doing great work on this. She's doing it all by herself.

[02:01:01] Imagine the meme she's going to come up with for this episode. Yeah. The amount of Master Builder gives. We do love a meme. We love a meme. A master meme. Yes. A master memer. Thanks to Lane Montgomery for our theme song.

[02:01:13] Thanks to Joe Bone and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. I feel sweaty and delusional right now. Go to Blank Check. Blankys.Red.com for some real nerdy shit. Yes. Next week, Ricky and the Flash. Yes. Which barring another catastrophe will be joined by

[02:01:31] Lindsay Webber and Bobby Finger of Who Weekly. Yes. It is on the books. Thomas Redsheet. It should happen. Jumping Jack, Ricky and the Flash. Exactly. That's exactly that. Exactly. And as always, come in. I like that they become famous in New York only.

[02:01:53] Correct. Because it's sort of like there's so many New York celebrities who are like that. Yeah. Exactly. So now that we're in some fucking farm and it's sort of like, well you remember the Ghostbusters. No, that should only be in New York.

[02:02:07] Outside of New York, people should be like I don't know. The premise. They want to put the Ghostbusters in the heartland. It seems to be the vibe of this trailer. You've got fields of weeds. You don't want it to be appealing to the elites. The premise is

[02:02:23] apparently that Paul Rudd grew up in New York. Sure. And experienced what they've now come up with. They come up with a new name. They're calling it the Cross Rib or something. Great. Everything you're saying is just great. Stay Puft Incident. Oh yeah, I could use that.

[02:02:45] Does Ghostbusters 2 exist in this universe? Yes. This film is being treated as Ghostbusters 3. So Answer the Call does not exist? Answer the Call does not exist, but Answer the Call always set itself up as something else because it's an alternate universe. What was Answer the Call?

[02:03:01] That's The Ladies. The one with The Ladies. Why is it called Answer the Call? It was initially just called Ghostbusters and then they got so panicked by people freaking out that they gave it a subtitle that they sort of admit as part of it.

[02:03:15] It was one of those things where it was like you gotta answer the call. Well who are you gonna call? I got you. The idea originally was like it was just Ghostbusters same title, you know Brackets 2016 on IMDb or whatever and then Answer the Call was the tagline

[02:03:31] and then suddenly a colon appeared between the title and the tagline and everyone was like is that the subtitle and people were like that must just be for marketing materials and then the end of the movie it says Ghostbusters Answer the Call. No.

[02:03:47] We are ready to go but I understand if you wanna talk about Ghostbusters instead of an S.T.A.R.T. or something. Well we're gonna talk about a lot of stuff I assume it's not.