A.I. Artificial Intelligence with David Rees

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check David is 11 years old He weighs 60 pounds He's 4 feet 6 inches tall He has brown hair

[00:00:28] He loves love is real But he is podcast Only 60 pounds I want to say something Those stats are almost identical to me at that age I know for a fact I was 60 pounds and 4 foot 6 And I was 12 when this movie came out

[00:00:42] I don't know how much I weigh Now or then I'm 62 now Hi everybody my name is Griffin and I'm David Sims Welcome to Blank Check with Griffin and David This is a podcast where we go through Filmographies of directors

[00:00:56] Massive success early on and then are given a series of Blank checks to make whatever crazy passing projects they want Sometimes the check's clear And sometimes they bounce baby Great And this is a mini series about the films of Steven Spielberg

[00:01:09] With the biggest blank check of all time when he founded DreamWorks Pictures His own studio Post Oscar win, he had nothing to prove and everything to gain And it's called Pod me if you cast Yes that's the name Pause for laughter and applause Thank you

[00:01:26] Our guest likes that And today we're talking about What I believe you've said is your single favorite film This Spielberg filmography This is my personal favorite Spielberg although I know that's Kind of like a big jerky hot takey thing to say Like obviously I like ET To restate

[00:01:42] You're saying in terms of personal preference That objective greatness right In terms of personal preference not just within this mini series But the entire filmography This is your favorite I don't think a lot of people would agree with me Right and the film of course

[00:01:56] But I'm not trying to be a jerk about it No no this is up there for me The movie of course we're talking about is PC Pod official cast telegence AI artificial intelligence An awkward title Yeah With no colon either A dot I dot Two old American words

[00:02:18] Like calling a movie like FYI for your information Right like it's a silly title That's a cool title Didn't he do that to mirror ET the extraterrestrial I feel like ET has a colon But then why does he call AI The artificial intelligence Yeah

[00:02:34] Right A, A, yes that B I think ET has E ET has no colon Well he does I mean how else would he poop Well we don't see him poop David one comedy Give me one I don't really do that

[00:02:50] I don't really give the comedy points it's funny You should try to be a little more generous No I think it's good that I'm very spare You're the Scrooge of comedy points Hold miserly Sims over here AI artificial intelligence

[00:03:02] We have a very exciting guest on the show today He's uh currently Just over here highlighting my notes And my three pages of notes that I took on this film Putting his notes in a little box like on an old movie When they would uh

[00:03:14] On the posters you know and they would put someone's name In a box to prove that they were more important He is the most prepared of any guest We've had on the show I think that's true He's taken out a notebook full of graph paper

[00:03:24] That is filled to the brim with notes In block capitals Yes The most artificial intelligence way of writing That's true And let's say this What if it was like David's weird notes where he's like You know I love mommy and Teddy loves mommy but I don't love teddy

[00:03:39] Is that why your notes are like No my notes are pretty boring Uh we have wanted this guest on the show so badly That I believe Socially at one point you threw out like What movie would you ever want to talk about And you said AI

[00:03:53] No it was you came to me I think I did Yeah you were like look I think I had mentioned to you that we had thought about Doing Spielberg one day This was like three mini series You ever wanted to do Spielberg

[00:04:03] Like I want AI You remarked this a long time ago Uh but I'll say that was like a motive Towards us actually finally doing the mini series Was the ability to do this episode Really the AI artificial intelligence Six hour spectacular I've always wanted to do this

[00:04:16] Yeah but I'm saying that I'm trying to hype up the guest How excited we are to have him No no we're so excited to have him here Yes Uh where do you know him from Many different places Uh the sadly defunct television series

[00:04:28] Going deep with David Reese Which was one of my favorite shows on television Really? I was a huge fan Oh thank you I don't think I knew that You changed the way I tie my shoes Ah

[00:04:37] Amongst other things but that's the big one on a day to day basis Awesome Thank you In my telephone everybody's name has an emoji And yours is a piece of bread The toast episode of Going Deep with my personal favorite friend Yeah yeah

[00:04:50] I like that It's a phenomenal show that people should watch Check out Can it be checked out? Is it hard to check it out right now? I think it's kind of hard to find You need to download a legal baby

[00:05:01] I think you can buy it on Amazon Prime There's two seasons and the seasons were on two different networks And it's kind of I think start with Amazon Prime And if that doesn't work just send me an email Yeah Well let's say this Worth the hunt Much like

[00:05:20] You know our young hero searching for the blue fairy You should not give up It is the blue fairy of instructional television program Six of the ten episodes in your first season Are available on Amazon Prime and four are not Really? Like and it's totally arbitrary

[00:05:36] The second, third, fifth and ninth episodes are not available Our guest is David Reece by the way Yeah David, election profit makers What else? I don't know A lot of just random stuff An amazing career, a storied career But now caps off with the highlight of it all

[00:05:54] The final chapter AI artificial intelligence AI artificial intelligence So this is Spielberg's first film in three years after Ryan Yeah so he's working Oh really? Yeah he's working in his three bursts That's insane Three takes a burst This is the first movie he made after saving Private Ryan

[00:06:13] Yep because it goes in like 97, 98 he does lost world Amistad Save and Remember Ryan Right And then in the upcoming he did from 01 to 02 he does AI minority airport catch me if you can He does these three movie bursts Yeah

[00:06:26] And then in 05, 06 he does war of the worlds Munich Oh no sorry 0405 he does terminal war of the worlds in Munich And then he disappears until Crystal Skull in 08 Yeah so he's in this weird like he has these flurries of creative activity

[00:06:40] But it's like lost world or rather Jurassic Park Schindler's List drop the mic walks away for four years Comes back delivers two flops Amistad and lost world Lost world does well but sucks Amistad doesn't work Right And then he disappears or no then he does

[00:06:53] He does Super Ryan he wins another Oscar Highest grossing film of the year drops the mic again for three years Comes back with AI Now the big thing that happens in between 1998 and 2001 is Stanley Kubrick does Yeah

[00:07:03] And I think he we can talk about it but that was what spurred him to make the movie Right He was like okay we gotta honor Stanley I guess Stanley's memory And different stories different accounts

[00:07:14] Like this will be the movie I make right like he sort of did the put off everything else Yeah I need to make this now Yeah Kubrick had been developed this way for ages But in a sort of very vague kind of way

[00:07:26] Like I know the whole thing was that he knew he wanted to make a movie about a robot child But that technology was never Do you know this stuff David or No Okay so yeah Stanley Kubrick was obsessed with this story Super Toys Last All Summer Long

[00:07:39] Just from the 60s From the 70s Brian Alda story and it's just the first third of this movie You know it is what the story is it's just the Oh right The robot boy comes to it And there's the teddy as a character

[00:07:50] You know like that it's just it was just that He Cause yeah like Kubrick was crazy he wanted to build a robot child Right he wanted to wait until they could build a real robot

[00:07:59] He was like we'll wait for the tech to catch up so that we can have like an artificial child right I know Are you serious Yeah yeah yeah 100% So I don't think the movie was ever that actively developed cause he was like

[00:08:10] Well I'll just kick it around my brain a little but we can't really start scripting until the robot exists And apparently Gotta write for the robot Gotta write for the robot The film and then he

[00:08:19] And then Kubrick decided that this was a quote picker-esque version of the Adventures of Pinocchio And so he handed Ian Watson or whoever wrote the first sort of screenplay Yeah, who gets screened story credit on this Yeah and he said like You have to get Pinocchio into this

[00:08:33] Like this is a Pinocchio story Like this is what it's gonna be And then at some point they made a robot child And they did like a screen test and apparently it was so horrifying that like Kubrick was like Forget it

[00:08:44] And I would love to see what this is Gosh that would be amazing This nightmarish like a realistic robot child look like Fromy Robot clanking around, reading lines In the 90s, like in the early 90s Like oh my gosh Can I tell a crazy side story?

[00:09:00] Chris Cunningham you know the music video director Who did like he did the York video with the robots He was part of this process He was brought on to trying Can I tell a crazy side story? No you're a crazy side story

[00:09:12] Early 80s when my dad was sort of kicking around And didn't know what he was doing in his career He worked for this guy named Louis Allen Who was like a big Broadway producer Who did Annie and a lot of stuff

[00:09:22] And Louis Allen was like an old establishment guy But he was really into like youth counter culture Okay And he became very close with Andy Warhol And he thought Andy Warhol was fascinating He was like you should do a one man show on Broadway

[00:09:34] Where you tell stories to Andy Warhol And Andy Warhol was like I'll only do it if it's a robot And so they for like a year or two developed an Andy Warhol robot That was going to do a Broadway one man show

[00:09:44] Where the robot told Andy Warhol stories And it was like apparently a similar thing Like my dad's talked about it in passing But as like this very traumatizing thing When they were like okay the robots ready And they all just were freaked out by it

[00:09:57] The robot came out and it must have been like One of those Disney Hall of Presidents of Tomaton Yes that's exactly what it was I think they were talking to the Imagineers To try to make the Andy Warhol robot I know in the early 90s Kubrick

[00:10:08] Started talking more seriously about doing it with Joseph Mazzello They screen tested Joseph Mazzello who's the boy in Jurassic Park And but they also built little quote little robot type humans That's Chris Cunningham saying But it was a total failure it looked awful I mean yeah

[00:10:25] But this is sort of when he and Spielberg start touching on Right He goes I think this might be more of a Speely movie than a Kubi movie And apparently I know a lot about this movie Because I was test with it when I was a teenager

[00:10:37] They would fax each other all the time Kubrick lived in his big mansion in England And he's making Eyes Wide Shut And God knows what else he's doing But he would fax all these ideas to Steven Spielberg And Spielberg would fax them back

[00:10:49] I just like the idea of them faxing each other And then Spielberg Yeah you know Kubrick dies Eyes Wide Shut comes out And Spielberg decides to roll up his sleeves And write his first screenplay Since close encounters with their third kind

[00:11:06] Which is the thing I find most fascinating about this movie Is that he wrote it and he has soul screenwriting credit Oh That's such a power That makes me love this movie more It kind of makes me love Steven Spielberg more Yeah I love Steven Spielberg

[00:11:18] But I would yeah I would love to ask him like Yeah like why Why did you feel like you had He doesn't No he doesn't He likes to work with your Tony Kushner's Right you know Your big Hollywood You know Your Jeff Nathanson's Yeah your Eric Roth's

[00:11:34] David Kapps But it's very fascinating to me because The hype for this movie was so huge A cause we were at this sort of like Threshold in effects I think Where everyone was like Oh shit Spielberg making like a serious robot movie

[00:11:49] Like who knows what this is even gonna fucking look like He's making his first sci-fi movie Since right Since close encounters I mean since ET Yeah But you know right ET is one sci-fi element in suburbia Like he hasn't done like A whole cloth world building thing

[00:12:04] Since hook which was a fucking disaster And that's not like the right milieu for him Like this was an exciting thing You know he had never gone this deep into A sci-fi world That's yeah he'd never done a future movie Right

[00:12:17] And then the Kubrick Spielberg thing was just like Both of them together what's this fucking gonna look like Yeah dream team Right and it was like They had Kubrick and living Spielberg dream team Like a little robot boy to bring them together

[00:12:29] The most idealized version of it was like Oh if you have Kubrick's precision and intelligence With Spielberg's emotions And maybe the two of them can like make something We don't even know what this movie would function like

[00:12:41] You know cause the complaint against Kubrick is that he's a little cold And distant Even the people who love him go like that's his thing And Spielberg the complain is like He's a master manipulator but sometimes he manipulates too much What if they could Oil and water right

[00:12:54] What if they meet in the middle I feel like that kinda doomed the movie Like I think the movie's reputation is better now That it's viewed as a Spielberg movie Yeah but Totally Yeah people were like Oh well I liked the Kubrick stuff

[00:13:07] You know you would hear that a lot I don't know if you heard this David when you saw it But like people would sort of say Well there was this cool dark stuff I assume that's Kubrick What is the Kubrick stuff Well I mean

[00:13:18] That's the thing is I don't think it's all Spielberg Well it's all Spielberg and Kubrick Like Kubrick's laid out this story And Spielberg wrote it You know but like nothing was changed I think Kubrick added a lot of the Rouge city stuff The middle stuff

[00:13:30] That was all his idea That's the Well alright But then the end is his idea too Like the whole Pinocchio thinks his idea You know like that was the story That he handed Spielberg and Spielberg you know It was a movie they developed together

[00:13:42] So like you can't like They can't separate the two things It wasn't like they were like the postal service And they were sending like parts of it It wasn't exquisite corpse you know Okay So when did you see this movie David I saw it in the theater In

[00:13:57] It came out June 2001 Right at the end of June So I probably saw it in July 2001 At BAM A Brooklyn art cinema Is it an art whatever You know what I mean Yeah Brooklyn Fancy movie theater And I actually had dinner with a friend of mine last night

[00:14:10] And I told him I was coming on this podcast I guess you could say it was bragging a little Mm-hmm And It's a big brag And I said do you remember when we saw AI together And he said I never saw AI with you

[00:14:21] And I was like really I was sure we saw it together And he was like no no I don't think I've ever seen it But I do remember I had what I think was The I saw it in the theater I really don't remember what I thought about

[00:14:34] Most of the movie But I do remember Towards that final act The bonus act Sure After 2000 years underwater Mm-hmm Feeling like This movie is crazy And people in the audience Snickering Sure And being vocal in their disdain For what they thought was this incredibly Tricely Feel-good ending Right

[00:15:00] It is fairly creepy ending Although it's also fast Can we say for the record I consider this one of the most disturbing Movies I've Like I find this movie I've watched I associate this movie with a Pervasive sense of dread

[00:15:15] Yeah it's one of the fatalistic movies I've ever seen And I think it is I think once you realize it as a horror movie About the human condition You realize this movie is incredible And I think the disdain that a lot of people have for it

[00:15:27] Is they cannot handle the intensely bleak World view That Steven Spielberg is dropping on everybody I think that's pretty fair Especially since it's the opposite of what His movies usually kind of give you Right So you assume You know Spielberg made it

[00:15:42] And so you assume that it's going to be So you reinterpret everything through this lens Of like Well he's sleeping with his mommy That's such a Spielberg ending The kid gets what he wants It's like This is really crazy and fucked up and dark

[00:15:55] He essentially kills her at the end of the movie If I bring her back to life He's removing her from the space time continuum So she can never exist again No and all Yeah I think this movie is Incredibly dark and bleak And disturbing And uh I agree

[00:16:10] I feel like it's a horror You know you've ever seen Sinecta Key New York The Charlie Coffin movie Yes I think we're both fans One of my all time favorite movies Well and you know the story of that movie

[00:16:18] Is that they asked him to make a horror movie And he was like well what's the scariest thing in the world Growing old and dying So I'll make a horror movie about that And this kind of And that movie to me also has a sense of real dread

[00:16:28] Creeping menace And that's the same Yeah and that's how I feel about AI artificial intelligence It's so weird I thought this was such a feel good movie No Dude Definitely Just really cheered me up Definitely not Made me feel good Uh David you ask who this is

[00:16:44] This is Ben Bye Alright do your thing What thing You know all the names for Ben Oh no I'm sorry this isn't that Ben Oh this is different Well that's producer Ben has all the nicknames Right I brought my own producer Ben

[00:16:59] So our Ben was not available today He had booked a prior engagement So David brought his own Benbot Oh this is a Benbot This is a Benbot Well that's probably why he thought it was a feel good movie I am so excited to talk about this movie

[00:17:12] Because it makes me feel like a boy What Is it a game I'd like to play Say his best line is first line in the movie I like your floor It's a good and he's weird little ballet shoes He's wearing I like your floor I like your floor

[00:17:29] When did you see this movie Griffin Okay so I got a little bit of a crazy story It's like you never just go sit down And see a movie every time It's some goddamn convo Are you ready for this one Sure go ahead yeah

[00:17:40] I went to the world premiere of AI Oh wow Really David Rees spits his coffee out In shock Where was the world premiere Zick's Hell Theater in New York City Yeah with like everyone fucking there My grandmother is like essentially like a professional Cocktail party attendee

[00:17:58] That's a fun job Yeah she's like an actual Socialite in the traditional Use of the term rather than what's become today And she's someone who's like twice gone to the Academy Awards without a ticket That's great Did she just like walk there Are you from a showbiz family

[00:18:13] Yeah kinda yeah I mean I'm from a family that exists in a weird sphere around show business But I'm not like Randy Newman's son Despite trying to tell myself my entire childhood That I was Would have been great I would have been so good as Randy Newman's son

[00:18:29] But yeah my grandmother like Worked as a liaison for a Tertiary film festival in the north of France Getting actors to come So her entire life is just that she has like Connections and communications with people And so she hasn't paid for a movie in like 35 years

[00:18:46] Cause she just goes to screenings of everything She doesn't usually go premieres but somehow she got tickets to this And brought me in I was like a ride or die HJO fan at this point That was my big appeal

[00:18:57] Cause I was like 12 and I was starting to get like angsty And I thought Spielberg was a fucking hack You know I was like this master manipulator he's a fucking hack I don't want to be manipulated Give me the truth Like the live action Scooby Doo movie

[00:19:11] Give me the straight shit Had Hailey Joel been in anything but the sixth sense This is his second movie wasn't it? Pay It Forward comes out later this year right This was his second movie I think No no Pay It Forward had already come out It had okay

[00:19:25] So Pay It Forward I was really into My dad always mocks me My dad always mocks me cause the lights came up And I turned to him and I went best picture Best director I predicted it was gonna win the top five categories Such an idiot

[00:19:37] Yeah I was a fucking dummy Okay so you went to the You liked Hailey Joel you went to the premiere But I was like ah Spielberg bullshit Everyone else was like excited for this I was like it looks dumb

[00:19:48] And I went to the premiere and it was a star-studded event Mike Myers was two rows behind us I was flipping out right And then the movie starts and I just From frame one digging it so hard There's such a palpable sense of dread

[00:20:01] Like I was like oh this movie actually reflects My worldview now as a 12 year old who's starting to become aware Of the world around him and is terrified by all of humanity And sees how pointless all of it is you know

[00:20:12] Wait so you picked up on that even when you were a kid The dark part of the movie? Cause I was a really dark kid Oh I was a very dark creepy little kid In addition to being the exact same size as David the Robot

[00:20:23] I was kind of like him in this movie Like I just like the constant fear of not being loved In just like sitting a corner and like shudder kind of way Keep me safe Right that kind of thing That was like me

[00:20:35] So I saw and I was like this feels like an autobiography Uh-huh Great And I also just I love I love robotics I love robotics as like a theme I love the visual sort of patina robotics

[00:20:47] And I just felt like all of that is so well realized in this movie Loved it It was the premiere audience everyone like flipped forward They got a fucking standing ovation Really? Yeah And I remember like The premiere they all laid on thick

[00:21:00] Is that usually a safe bet of it? Really? But like when Jude Laws came up In the end credits people went like ballistic And it was like he's going to win Best Supporting Actor this year Like everyone was like drinking the Kool-Aid right? Right

[00:21:10] And I went home to my parents and I was like it's amazing And they were like but I thought you hate Spielberg And I was like that's old griff He's a fucking dummy AI is the truth And I like hyped up to all my friends at school

[00:21:19] And I told my parents And then like three weeks later it comes out Everyone calls me and they're like What's this fucking bullshit? My parents called me I was at summer camp Uh-huh And I called them on the pay phone And they were like we were like

[00:21:32] Snickering at the end of it When the Tay Bear comes up with the hair It's goofy It's like a dumb kids movie What the fuck are you talking about? No Yeah no Think about how terrifying his line read When he hands the hair to them

[00:21:44] And he's like and now you can bring her back Can't you? Or something It's like this Ray Yeah no Oh yeah I know I agree with you And that thing he You know He has enough purpose to understand Like when they're like We want you to be happy

[00:21:58] And he's like then you know What you want to do You have to let me go to bed with my mommy But there was a period of time I'm gonna make her cup of coffee God damn it There was a period of time where I wondered

[00:22:08] Did I only like it because I saw in the premiere And that's like Yeah yeah And then there was also a time where I was like Years past and I was like Well I haven't rewatched it I had a lot of dumb opinions at that time

[00:22:19] Like I don't know You pay it forward Right exactly So I was like is that just Was I just so on the HJO train That I couldn't see objectively And I maybe watched it again Like when I was 18 I didn't see it between 12 and 18 And was just like

[00:22:31] Nope this fucking rules And I've seen it like four or five times since then I love it Wow It's a great movie Uh yeah I don't think You know go ahead David It's not a movie I would Weirdly I rewatched this movie a lot Really?

[00:22:43] It just feels too bludgeoning It is but I've seen it a lot Once a year I think there's no reason I can handle it too I get that itch And it's the same thing with Sinecta Which is one of my favorite movies Sometimes I'm just like

[00:22:52] That's a movie I cannot rewatch Sometimes I need to watch Because nothing else is gonna be Like you know It's like a bloodletting or something I'm never there I'm never there where I'm like Sinecta King New York I need to I get the idea that you

[00:23:05] You know watching a sad movie Helps you you know Expel certain sort of Like motions or whatever You find Sinecta King New York Darker than AI artificial intelligence Sinecta King New York is about death Like that That affects me How much more mortality Right?

[00:23:18] AI obviously it's about that as well But it's also to me It's about religion Which I love Like it's about like Man's relationship to God Right And God's creator And like Weird purposelessness of existence Is blown out enough And of course it has the sci-fi look You know

[00:23:32] Has the genre feel That like you know That's like a nice little Gauzy layer I mean Sinecta King kinda does too Right But Sinecta King is about Like being ill and like Right It's so like gray And ugh But when you I love the movie I love it

[00:23:48] When you rewatch this movie Do you watch it with pleasure? That's a good question I mean I know it doesn't make you happy It doesn't make me happy No, no, no But you know what Right I mean like Why do people watch horror movies

[00:24:00] Why do they watch sad movies Right Like isn't it more just sort of Like you get some kind of Cathartic release out of it Or like I like processing these thoughts I've also Well alright So I saw the movie in theaters It came out in Britain After September 11

[00:24:12] Hummelbrack Right after Like to the 24 I did double check But it's the 21st Of September Wow And so I remember It was like Particularly I saw it Like opening day Right And everyone in the audience Like shuttered when that happened Like I know it's a British audience Yeah

[00:24:29] Yeah, nonetheless And yeah I was talking to David about this Before we started recording But like this was the movie where I liked it a lot When I saw it I loved it I saw it with all my friends They all hated it We like walked out

[00:24:40] They were all mocking it And I didn't know what to do It was like one of those early Like I'm like Wait why am I like So wrong on this Like I guess I had that anxiety Right I bought it on DVD And I bought the soundtrack

[00:24:52] I was a little weirdo That's f'd up that you own the soundtrack It's weird right It's like weird I have it on CD Are you Are you an only child? You're not No my brother And I got my brother into this Damn movie He in he

[00:25:06] Yesterday was like He's excited for this episode And he was like Where is the DVD I need that DVD You know like Yeah Yeah David's just quietly thinking Processing this thing Well I think it's really Interesting that for both You both saw it when you were

[00:25:20] Younger than I was When I saw it And for both For both of you It feels like You knew right out of the gate What it was You were watching And how to respond to it Whereas I was I think I had to see it

[00:25:34] Again or do some reading about it Before I realized I did too Oh the reason everyone's laughing Is because they can't handle it Yeah I definitely was baffled By the ending The first time I saw it I think the tone Struck me oddly Like I didn't get why

[00:25:48] It was so like Heavenly like you know In like sort of I guess you know Like I didn't get the voice over I didn't get why It was being presented to me this way The ending is so crazy It's crazy It's one of the craziest endings

[00:26:01] It doesn't tell you That the Things are robots Right Which most people misinterpret them as aliens Right I always thought they were aliens Until I was getting ready For this podcast And I was reading a couple essays And someone And someone said Well most idiots

[00:26:15] Thought they were aliens They're actually Evolved AI Oh yeah of course That's why they're so stoked to find him Right because it's like Literally they found like a Rosetta story In the missing link Yeah they found the missing link Yeah They think People think they are aliens

[00:26:28] Because they look like aliens Because they are all skinny Right exactly And like that's what aliens look like Right I mean when I When you see it and like The way they share the info When they sort of They touch each other Yeah they make their network

[00:26:39] Their neural network That to me is the best But it is interesting that they Don't like put a point on it You know because I do think That baffled a lot of people And they Like the offhand reference I mean it would be weird if they were like

[00:26:49] We are Roe Right There's the offhand reference To like the originals Like they were man made Right They had communication with humans You know As opposed to See when I saw The first time when I was When I was 12 I don't think I could intellectualize it at all

[00:27:06] I just knew And it was sort of The same thing when I saw Synecdoche Where I was like This is funneling into that fear That I've never been able to verbalize before Right Yeah yeah Like it just kind of Was typically with like

[00:27:17] As a kid who was like Alternatingly obsessed And terrified by love and death As like abstract concepts Right yeah yeah And could never fucking Put it into words But would just stay awake at night With like this dread This movie tapped into that

[00:27:29] And it made it so frustrating When I was like A kid and everyone else Was like this movie's dumb I laugh at it And I couldn't explain why It was good other than Just like no but it's good You couldn't make it The intellectual argument

[00:27:39] I think one thing That's interesting about this Movie to me is that It is it's scary It's scary To me it's like that feeling of dread That I had even before I really understood What was so dreadful about it Which is not the intellectual

[00:27:54] I mean it's just deep Like it goes so deep into You know the fathomless emptiness That defines the human conditions Right And love The purposelessness And how love is like an illness Which is almost Which is like below the level Of an intellectual argument And then

[00:28:11] But then you can also be scared Of it when you try to make An intellectual Movie about how All religion is a huge mommy substitute It's not gonna work And people are so selfish They just want their mommy to love them

[00:28:21] Even at the cost of all of humanity Being destroyed That doesn't even register for them As long as they can make A cup of coffee for their mom Who will be dead in the morning Sure It is essentially Structurally a one night stand With your own mother

[00:28:34] Which is the next morning The relationship is gone And he just stumbles home Or whatever is gonna happen And he can only have her By killing her That's the other thing That's the craziest thing About the fucking ending Is they explain to him They're like

[00:28:45] We figured out we Not a brings on back But we remove them from The space time continuum Like DNA is part of the fabric of time Yeah She'll have never existed If you get to spend 24 hours with her And it's like yeah I'll take the 24 hours

[00:28:58] Like he wants to have her I don't know if she'll have never existed I don't think that That's how I can't return The specificity of Well we can bring her back But it can only last for 24 hours I mean Yeah I know Again that's what

[00:29:12] It's a little bit of an ancient riddle or something Yeah it's just like so bonk Yeah it's like when you hear about a myth From olden times And it's like well And then he turned into a constellation And he could come out on the spring and the summer

[00:29:22] Because his dog was lost You know it's like Why is this gotta be so fucking specific That's what I love about Greek myths About why Freaking Persephone is stuck in hell For six months out of the year Right Yeah right yeah She ate those six pomegranates

[00:29:36] Like what if she Anyway go on That just the 24 hour thing again It's like you get the sense that Spielberg's like Fuck I'm just gonna go for broke Yeah right He can have her again But it's only good Like he could have easily made a movie

[00:29:48] It's like well first of all We're not aliens we're robots Right And you're our favorite robot We've been looking for you Whatever you want I want mommy I want mommy Alright well This is 2000 years in the future Here's a new mom Same DNA It's essentially your mom

[00:30:01] Go live in this house forever Sure Right You could have that Spielberg's like Nah I gotta twist a few more screws here So you can only have her for 24 I mean it's like he's going crazy I think this movie makes me think

[00:30:15] Steven Spielberg is a really interesting person Me too because this is the script right that he He created without the one would imagine Like the many many layers of Hollywood filters That his scripts and not the script Right

[00:30:28] And even though I don't think I liked the movie as much as I do now Even when I saw it I did come away being like Well this is a dude who can do whatever he wants Yeah sure Because there's no fucking way this movie was made by

[00:30:38] Committee with a bunch of studio executives being like It's true And that's a crazy thing that jumped out to me watching it This time is Think of I was struggling with examples okay Think of other movies in the last let's say five or six years

[00:30:53] That have this level of world building And production design and intricacy right Into the technology, the design of all the characters The environments and all of that That Is not in service of set pieces Because there are no set pieces in this movie Not really

[00:31:08] Well there's one really lackadaisical chase sequence Yeah one It was really kind of listless My notes are a listless chase sequence For like 90 seconds This is the thing like in Minority Report Which is his next movie which is very very devoted to like

[00:31:24] Having its tech feel organic and like everything makes a certain sort of sense Like in this is like they get in a damn helicopter thingy That's a cop copter Right They drive away no one's gonna just like Like some switch that's like turn off the helicopter

[00:31:36] Like is there no failsafe here Right And so they just you know who cares he doesn't care It's an aquacopter right what's it called It's an amphibocopter Amphibocopter And it's like you know like he doesn't want to think about it or stuff right

[00:31:49] When the narrator says amphibocopter it's so awkward and clunky Ben Kingsley That's specific That's Ben Kingsley Yeah and can you imagine him being handed the script And he's like what's this word Amphibocopter I highlighted the word I don't understand

[00:32:03] You sure you don't want me to just say the vehicle He's like no I'm seeing an amphibocopter It goes underwater and in the sky Like it means something Say it Also I mean we should know like the cars in this movie Or the dumbest design I love them

[00:32:16] They would flip if you a gentle curve Yeah I would say the production design has not aged well And I wonder if that's I would agree but it's fascinating I wonder if that's deliberate because the world The First of all

[00:32:31] The typeface that they use for the instruction sheet And the packaging is Not looking good No it's really bad packaging Oh you mean her weird like overhead projector slide The transparency sheet That typography And then the packaging of the David Robots at the end It's a bad box

[00:32:49] Right it's a horrible box Who wants a box that just shows you a silhouette Of the product Yeah it looks like a naked child is in there And then their house is very Non It doesn't It looks very chintzy Yeah And I I like the input

[00:33:05] Well we should try to approach it But we should start with the freaking house anyway But I like the idea or at least That there's some like There's only a little of this going on at this point Right Of this luxury living That there's some very very narrow

[00:33:20] Almost like fake bubble Right We still live in the suburbs and it's fine Right Because the implication is like America's shrinking Like the world is sort of Yeah but on the other hand the Rouge City Right well Is pretty fancy It's I mean You know

[00:33:36] It sucks some money into that but it's sexy right Maybe it's just That's where the money is going Excuse me Ben Bot yeah Blank check and guest Could I give you my thoughts Because I just saw this movie for the first time Sure Ben Bot please relay thoughts

[00:33:49] So having been exposed to this cinema For the first time in a post-Trump world I derived enjoyment from seeing all the future Violence and pain Also the end of human civilization Ben Bot Yes Um What You connect it because it was like a flight of fancy

[00:34:07] It was like a thing that could never happen Right Oh no it's going to happen Okay Ben Bot Don't explain the bit to him Come on he Ben Bot knows Ben Bot don't Don't kill us please Ben Bot I won't The robots aren't gonna kill us

[00:34:21] We're gonna kill ourselves right isn't that the And then all that's gonna be left is us That's what you'd lost hands Oh my god Is this Could you have a reading of this movie Where the final AI killed All humans Or does it have to be global warming

[00:34:36] And catastrophic climate change I think it's catastrophic I don't know I think you could have that reading Wouldn't that be amazing It would take it to the next level of darkness Yeah they're the further descendants of Whatever generation of AI Also I love my mommy

[00:34:49] Thank you Ben Bot Alright so the movie Please commence producing The movie starts with this weird little prologue It opens with the sound of waves Over darkness True Orga waves And you see the artificial intelligence Crashes into it And it says AI right

[00:35:08] You know it's actually a funny title But yeah it's a William Hurt Well no I guess there's some explanation Isn't there a little Ben Kingsley narration over the waves Yeah Ben Kingsley like the world has ended Amsterdam, Venice and New York City

[00:35:20] Those are the three cities we know we've lost There's probably a couple more And then we get the big hurt Yeah the big hurts in this one Hobby, Professor Hobby I love him so much I think he's such a good actor

[00:35:33] I know we've talked about him a couple times on this podcast This was in his real dark career face Yes William Hurt He was I mean I guess Lost in Space Was his last box office player But I mean He really he hasn't you know he's

[00:35:48] Whatever it's like ten plus years Since broadcast news Like you know since like he was a thing This probably seemed like Oh man he's got like a choice supporting part In that Spielberg Kubrick movie And then it didn't really you know I think he's very good in it

[00:36:03] But it certainly didn't boost his signal at all No it wasn't an afterthought Yeah but yeah it starts out with a monologue Which I always I kind of like When movies start like this Like I like when movies But they have like a thesis statement At the beginning

[00:36:18] I like that but also I like when movies Submerge you with a character you know Is peripheral You know what I'm saying Like we're gonna open with What is not the main character And fully like like force you Into this environment where it's like

[00:36:31] Here's like seven minutes of a guy Who's got the and billing And a bunch of like executives Who don't have character names Yes Matt Winston Matt Winston's in there But it's just like You've seen the trailers You know it's about Hilly Jalazma As like a little boy Right

[00:36:48] You know they're sort of talking about him Like this isn't where this movie's gonna live We're gonna put you in this place This is like sort of a table setting And then your story's gonna start It kind of feels to me

[00:36:59] I mean this movie is like a fairy tale It's like an adult fairy tale That's certainly part of its conception Or at least that's built into the Theme of the movie Yeah it is a bit of a It's a picker-esque journey It's an episodic He has little adventures

[00:37:15] That are all moral tales Except they're all sort of warped I guess Right I mean have you guys read Pinocchio The book Pinocchio? Never read it the original Okay it's very very very very very Very upsetting and dark It's a nasty book

[00:37:28] I read it I was obsessed with it as a child Because it was so creepy And you know it's very It's very heavy on the morality Like it's like trying to imprint on you Like you have to be a good little boy Who listens to his parents

[00:37:41] But it's the same thing He goes on these little adventures And something horrible happens to him each time And he can't die because he's a puppet So they like hang him from a tree You know the thieves The little animals Right yeah yeah

[00:37:55] And then he just hangs from the tree forever Until someone finds him because he can't die That's how that book ends? No that's like in the middle of the damn book It's really at the end of the book The Blue Fairy Right right right

[00:38:06] Yeah of course right spoilers Well and then Pinocchio has The whole pleasure island thing Which is very similar to Roussidious Which is why I think This Kubrick was obsessed with that idea What do you make of the beginning David

[00:38:19] You know it's hurt laying out this concept of like What you know Well Impewing emotion into artificial intelligence I've always been really interested in artificial intelligence And our robots Are ever going to be people And like do robots deserve rights Once they reach a certain level of intellectual

[00:38:36] Or cognitive or emotional sophistication And I think what Watching the movie I think I wanted to see it Because it's called AI Artificial Intelligence So I was like oh it's going to be an action movie about Basically philosophy of mind And the hurt scene makes you feel like

[00:38:51] That's they're going to double down on that But you really I don't think there's much in this movie About artificial intelligence really It's not really a philosophical movie About artificial intelligence I feel like that's just the conceit For talking about It is not a complicated look at

[00:39:08] Yeah at this sort of moral implications And it is more of a fantasy movie with sci-fi trappings Than it is a science fiction movie Like once you get past the initial table setting It becomes a lot more philosophical And like I said before

[00:39:21] There's not much attention paid to making Everything makes the tech make sense Because Jude Law Yeah I mean I guess it gets into stuff about Jude Law's character has a personality Feelings and emotions And drive right? He does have a lot of this stuff

[00:39:37] Yeah I mean that's one of the fundamental weird One of the things that's so weird about this movie is I could see people falling in love with Jude Law's robot I could see people falling in love with Teddy Yeah Teddy's pretty good He's a good looking guy

[00:39:54] He seems at He's got a lot of character in that It's not an original point but like relative to the humans In this movie I would much rather spend the rest of my life With Jude Law and Teddy than with Monica And Professor Hobbie

[00:40:06] Yeah and Monica is a jerk husband Yeah right But David Is so weird The uncanny valley stuff is so bad with him Yeah No one's ever gonna fall in love with you dude I was You're so weird Come on man just get back off

[00:40:30] Right but I feel like that's what When you get into the real deep stuff In the movie it's like well every child Is awkward, every human is awkward And we're probably all unlovable Like relative to a teddy bear With a heart of gold who's like

[00:40:44] A new fangled Jiminy Cricket But there's just something about When you think about it on the level of Like really just take it on the surface level Okay this guy's Professor Hobbie's son died So he does what any scientist would do

[00:40:58] He builds an army of robots that are exactly like his son For other people to fall in love with He's like spreading his son Out into the world for everyone There's got to be a parallel Somewhere in western religious tradition

[00:41:10] I can't think of it right now about a father figure Sending his son out for all humanity Fall in love with a sacrifice But I know it's there I just don't have time to think of it right now I can't quite put my finger on it

[00:41:22] Scientology deals with that a little bit That's what it is Scientology has all the airplanes That were in the volcanoes that blew up It's like all the bits that came out of it It's kind of like that too So Hobbie's son

[00:41:36] Hobbie had a son, his son's name was David He died I want to make a robot That people can fall in love with There's not a lot of babies around We've been told you can only have one child He sympathizes One imagines with the child's parent

[00:41:52] So he wants to provide Something that would maybe replace it And this is where The stage setting gets so specific And you think that the movie's going to be making An intellectual argument What does he say I want to make a robot that can love There's no reason

[00:42:11] I'm just thinking as a business As a business there is no reason For the customer There's a reason to tell the customer Yes, this robot son actually loves you But there's no reason to build that Into the robot First of all it doesn't really make sense to me

[00:42:27] That a robot could love but putting that aside There's no reason for the robot In terms of user experience As the parent who needs a kid There's no reason for that robot to actually Love as long as it passes this weird emotional

[00:42:39] Touring test of this child is acting As if it loves me The marketing, yeah of course we're going to say A robot that can love but when I'm in the When I'm professor hobby hanging out with my scientists Gouffin off sticking pins in robots

[00:42:51] And telling them to take off their clothes Listen we're going to tell them this robot can love I don't fucking know if this thing can love it's a robot That's what Jigolo Joe is supposed to Exude The imitator the guy who sort of reflects you

[00:43:03] And the scene with His first client is so Emotionally intimate And mirrors The imprinting thing because you notice when he Places her on the bed he has his fingers on the back Of her neck which is where Monika has put Her fingers on the back of

[00:43:19] So it's all this It's kind of like the Jude Law character Is kind of Kind of undermines The professor hobby's obsession With making a robot that can love A robot Who I feel like in the end I can only take this movie as an emotional

[00:43:39] Movie because intellectually it's just starts You're collapsing in on it It's just so there's so much going on and you Can't I don't think you can have a single intellectual Response to the arguments Of the logic of this movie because it is Really just churning up the deepest

[00:43:55] Darkest Freudian stuff It's not going to make sense. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's like fairy tales where it's like It's a way to communicate to children these things that scare them So let's like use Fantastical elements and Like wackadoo storytelling

[00:44:09] To get at some deeper truth that will not be Understandable in didactic terms And the movie operates in that kind of logic But like so I have my own It's a fairy tale for adults Is it a fairy tale for adults?

[00:44:21] Like is it trying to help you understand Like what's it trying to help an adult understand That's I think where this movie failed At the time of its release I'm saying though the reason why people didn't respond to it well at the time

[00:44:33] Is because I think they went oh it's Spielberg doing sci-fi and the leads a child He's better at childlike wonder than anyone else He does these movies where kids and adults alike The kids see it the adults are brought back to their childhood

[00:44:44] It's unifying and then he made this movie that's like Not for anyone and he's not trying to help anyone He's exploring his own sense of mortality Right and what's so awesome about it in terms of Spielberg is like

[00:44:55] With Elliot and ET like those kids are constantly having their mind blown And their eyes are opening up and in this movie David is so obsessed with getting his mother's love He doesn't give a flying fuck if he's out of flesh fairs Murder Circus

[00:45:07] He's not really taking it in If he's in Rouge City surrounded by all this decadence He's so monomaniacal when it comes to his mother's love That all he has no wonder He's a completely boring Right

[00:45:20] He just wants to be home in this boring apartment making coffee for mommy Right and what's so sad is like No mom is gonna love such a boring ass She doesn't care I mean like you know what I mean Go out in the world learn some stuff

[00:45:31] Learn how to have a conversation So when your mom, you know it's like I had the craziest night last night Mom I went to the circus and they were tearing up all these robots And I got really scared They almost poured acid on me Yeah right exactly

[00:45:43] But it's love without con- The thing that's so bleak about the movie is Or maybe this is the Maybe this is the moral It's like a love You know it's like Love is active Love is a verb right

[00:46:00] It's not just a state of being that once you achieve it Then you're in love and then you have fulfillment Like this kid's life is so empty He literally doesn't care that all of humanity has been destroyed Or he doesn't really get it

[00:46:11] I mean I like the way he says And we're jumping at it I have a lot of things to say But later when he's like Maybe it'll be like that day in the amphibocopper Right Like that's how he can think about it He has these

[00:46:25] So one thing that's interesting about it is like There's a lot of tenderness in this movie from other robots Like Jigolojo, like Teddy a lot Because Teddy is David's protector And he really goes above and beyond to keep this kid happy I need to find David

[00:46:37] Have you seen David? Where is he taking me to David? I'm taking me to David I love that he gives Teddy the least appealing voice in the world It gives Teddy the voice of like a cigar shop owner From like 1920s Where is David? I'm looking for David

[00:46:52] Jack Angel is the voice actor He was like a veteran voice actor Voice of Chunk in Toy Story 3 Oh okay Which one's Chunk? He's like the rock guy who's got the two faces One's angry and one's happy He's even got three lines

[00:47:05] I know the entire voice cast of the Toy Story We know, we know you do So part of to me I love religious shit And to me robot stories are always about You know, often about humanity trying to talk to God

[00:47:18] And like the horrifying thing about all religion Is that religion is trying to answer is Why did you make me? Like why do I exist? So when she imprints on him She's making him, right? I mean obviously Hobby has a role in that too

[00:47:33] In his own fucked up role Well it's nature versus nurture Like they're each one half of that But she's activating him for this Supposedly two way connection It's the idea, that's right But of course like you're saying How on earth could she like

[00:47:45] She obviously feels like pity for him And she's attached to him But she doesn't love him How could she love, he's bizarre He's like a pet that keeps fucking up Right? He's sort of like a dog Like almost right? Like all of their arcs together

[00:48:00] Just him making a mistake And her being like I get it Look you're a weird robot Like I'm not gonna hold you responsible Well I think the bigger thing is that she Does she love him? No she's in love with being a mother And she misses that sensation

[00:48:11] And just being able to go through the motions With him is starting to activate that thing in her I mean you see even right before she activates him That she's still creeped out by him Right But that she's feeling fulfilled in that way

[00:48:22] Like that itch is being scratched And she needs that Because at the beginning of the movie She's like a broken person Like she has no reason anymore You know? Yeah something about the imprinting Also feels weird to me What if I want to find the words

[00:48:39] She's writing down Oh I have them in my notes Are you ready? What note taking? Get Ben bot ready Because I'm gonna imprint him on you Griffin Are you ready? Ben bot activate? Yes Okay let me put my finger in the small of his neck

[00:48:51] Cirrus, Socrates, Particle, Decibel Hurricane, Dolphin, Tulip Griffin, Ben, Griffin Now say it You're my mommy Say it You're my mommy Boom Thank you Ben bot Can I come hug you? No Ben bot you have to produce the show What do those words mean mommy? Just keep engineering

[00:49:15] Ben bot Okay And you know I want to just Go ahead I want to see Joanne And she asked the question Like why doesn't the dad imprint Like why is this one on one thing right Which it's just sort of inherent to the dad

[00:49:27] Well what's incredible is as soon as As soon as she imprints him Yeah And he hugs her And then in the next scene The dad is so over this kid He's like alright So far out of the house And she's so into him Right

[00:49:38] You know what I mean It's a very kind of weirdly reduc Freudian Yeah I mean heavily You know And But why This is what I've done before That scene where he's like Change me and she's like No thank you Yeah And that shot of him in the

[00:49:54] Glass door where David like turns the look at her And you see his Yeah it's all fractured Oh my god It's also it's very eddipole Because it's like his love is so Extreme beyond the average love That a mother That a child has for a mother Right

[00:50:09] Because it's like he's designed Only to love a mother And so that's like I think a threat to the father Once he's activated Which is just like This isn't just like a kid who Needs his mom This is a kid whose entire Raise on death

[00:50:19] No he is obsessed with it And he'll never grow out of it That's all he will ever be Yeah well that's the real Keep thinking about James He can't grow up Right That's sort of the perversion Of childhood Like You're stuck forever Right It could be a year

[00:50:32] It could be 2000 years And so I love that man Playing God stuff With you know Freakin Frankenstein Right For some purpose They thought they understood But then like They didn't consider the implications Of viewing consciousness On something right But also for a filmmaker Who's known for like

[00:50:46] Being able to create A sense of childlike wonder And not just in his movies But the stuff he produced In the fucking cartoons And everything and was like People complained Was infantilizing pop culture To make a movie about how Being a child forever is a curse Right

[00:50:59] It's fascinating And that the only wonder In the movie is a Horror wonder Yeah well that's the thing Like you see the Spielberg face That we talk about a lot You know the sort of The long shot of someone reacting To something before you see it

[00:51:13] When they're looking at the moon rising Which is this gorgeous image That's of course like A nightmarish image And things like that Or his obviously you know That freaking blue fairy statue He loves so much Right Yeah But Haley Joel is definitely Like the most haunted Spielberg kid

[00:51:28] He's terrific He's great in it I think it's a really wonderful Yeah No it's performance Yeah it's amazing He doesn't blink At any point in the movie He was very committed Yeah He has this weird waxy makeup I would How do you think his experience

[00:51:44] How do you think Spielberg explained To him what the movie was about Or do you think he did Or didn't or it's just like You just need to act like a weirdo But that was the thing with him At the time I mean yes the marriage

[00:51:54] Like that buzz was like After six cents they were like This seems like the kid gets it Like they didn't just trick A good performance out of him It seems like he's getting it And then when he would do interviews And stuff He wasn't like precocious

[00:52:04] Where it felt like a train monkey It was just this very intellectual kid He just seemed like one of those grown up kids Who like wore slacks and new balance And puttin' dads And seemed like At a party he might be Like at a dinner party

[00:52:15] He might still be there And like he'd be able to Like make conversation with the grown up And then I think he Teenagehood and it was like It was a disaster Right and he's like Never been able to play an adult Convincingly Which is so bizarre

[00:52:26] But his father Cause he always plays like Slackers And sort of like He's like gross sort of Side guys now Right yeah But he plays very like He's like a chantalized kind of man now His father I think was like An acting teacher

[00:52:39] And so it just feels like He had this real sense of like Breaking down character psychology But it never felt like he was Parading stuff Like he actually got it But what's so amazing about Can I just say something that I just found On this Wikipedia page

[00:52:53] That is a fascinating nugget His father said that when Osmunt was learning to speak His father deliberately avoided Using baby talk When communicating with his son Yeah okay yeah He didn't go He imprinted him only with real words What's awesome about his performance is He was a child

[00:53:13] The actor was a child Sure yeah he was Playing a fake child Built by adults As an idealized child Who the viewer has to come to recognize Is a sociopath Sure Right and subvert every innocent All the famous shots of him Like laughing out of the blue

[00:53:35] And it's like really, really Horrifying and all that stuff But even the more subtle stuff Like the intensity of his desire To be loved Yeah Right but that is a synthetic I think it's a synthetic desire Well no because everything's about it And like the thing

[00:53:53] His um he copes Like in a way that's supposed To manipulate you Like when you know Francis O'Connor The mom what's your name Monica Is gonna leave him in the woods That like snap from his normal Sort of play in like What are we doing mommy

[00:54:07] I'll lay out the blanket for you To like utter devastation Total panic Yes is so instant And he plays it very, very well Like he makes it feel like It's a switch has been And again with the robots At the end with the hair

[00:54:20] When he gets so indignant It's a survival thing I mean that's like his nourishment Is he needs love And if you threaten to take that away From him he goes into like You know like warrior mode To get what he needs Yeah this

[00:54:36] I'm starting to think this movie Is intellectually incoherent Because Intellectually incoherent Yeah Go on Well the only reason he wants To be a real boy Is because he has told himself That is the only way Monica will love him Yeah that's just a logical Thing he thinks

[00:54:52] Like a logic Leap of logic he makes It's like well what about Is a real boy Cause he thinks the problem Is that right The tragedy is If he had just acted Normally And I will say this This was a huge problem

[00:55:03] In the movie where I was like Come on guys If the techs After they have the Spinach eating contest And his face starts to melt And then they open him up And start sucking the Spinach out in front of The family No do that offsite

[00:55:15] Cause how are you ever going to Don't remind them That he is a robot And he's like don't worry Mommy it doesn't hurt It's like okay You just lost her right there And there's that shot She's holding his hand And then she lets his hand Right exactly

[00:55:26] His hands just sort of Hanging in the air So if he had been She could have The whole point of I think the whole point Of hobby's business was Where you're going to program A robot to love a human What that means We never really learn

[00:55:41] But once that's done Yeah humans are going to be Loving robots All day long So he doesn't have to be real In order to be loved He just has to be better At acting like a normal kid You know what I mean

[00:55:52] Like giving him a good sense of acting Maybe that's the problem Right Jigaloo Joe is the opposite side Of that He has no real love But he knows exactly how To make people feel like Right and people are falling in love with him Right

[00:56:02] Jigaloo Joe is a smooth operator So that's what I don't understand logically There's no I'm really getting down On the level of engine Are you just understanding the logic Of hobby's decision Of like his creation Yeah To me that's what the movie's about Right I was yelling this

[00:56:17] At someone recently When we were talking about the movie Like Why do humans exist We're stupid We destroy everything Right We act irrationally Because we are Inmuted with all these emotions And selfishly We act selfishly We act You know what is love Except like

[00:56:33] Something that ties you to someone Who might hurt you And or die And or you know But also they're a good thing You know what I mean Like there's all this irrationality That's why we Get angry at God And say like Why did you cast us out of

[00:56:44] The Garden of Eden Right like isn't that Why do I also think This is a big Garden of Eden movie Because I think the difference Between Jigaloo Joe and David Is that like Jigaloo Joe hasn't Bitten the apple And David has What Sure He's not intellectually

[00:56:58] But isn't burdened With having to feel The existential weight of it He understands it Whereas David has this thing That he cannot reconcile And that thing is The need to be loved By his mom Yeah And just the depth of feeling And loneliness He has an equation

[00:57:15] That can't be balanced Which is like How you might think about emotion Right it's like I mean obviously it's extreme But like he Can't be fulfilled Because He's been imbued with something That you can't easily fulfill Right I don't know And like obviously Then there's this idea

[00:57:29] That he's being seated with Something that grows And then when we meet This consciousness Many thousands of years later It's evolved into something More recognizable But they're very Like he's sort of Like a They're very analytical When they talk about everything You know They are I mean they're

[00:57:45] They're They are compassionate Towards him They're like Deeply compassionate Towards him Yeah they are That's true actually In fact You know I mean if you're just Looking at how You would react to all the AI or the robots in this movie Those are the only

[00:58:02] Those are like the only characters In the movie that feel like Sensitive Yeah they're sensitive And they try to interact with him As the Blue Fairy is Right They try to They try to meet him on his level Right They get it Whereas the other robots

[00:58:14] I mean Teddy Like I said Is compassionate In a weird sort of way But in a more You know It's easier to Right it's like Okay that's his algorithm He has to serve as master Right Hey Griffy Yes Benbot I have a question about Teddy

[00:58:28] Okay Benbot comments question Great So Why doesn't he tell jokes Where the setup is This is a thing that is happening And that reminds me about this other Thing that happened another time I don't get Benbot's bit Is Benbot are you Do you think that Teddy

[00:58:45] Is the character from Ted 2 And the Ted movie Yes Okay so Benbot this is a different Teddy Looks similar Looks similar Animations about at the same level I would say this Teddy is much more This is not a Seth MacFarlane Teddy Benbot

[00:59:01] Why didn't we see the Teddy fuck A human Okay because Benbot that's a different That's a different franchise Is he like an apparatus in those movies Yeah he fucks her with a parsnip Okay It's the worst joke in the movie Are you serious? He says out loud

[00:59:13] I fucked her with a parsnip Okay Benbot That's funny Far Benbot he's laughing Okay Yeah that movie should go die in a fire I've never seen it I saw this like 20 minutes at Ted 2 On HBO once and I wasn't fond of it Yeah This is my rationalization for

[00:59:31] All that stuff That this sort of Gordian knot We're trying to untangle here I think Professor Hobby Wanting to imbue a robot with love Which is an abstract concept And it's like how do you Find this fucking thing Is just like Mans Folly Right I agree

[00:59:46] It's Justin he's accomplished so much And it's like the uncanny valley That's the thing he knows they haven't done What's the gain of that? Will it feel any different from the human side? I don't know but that's the thing he wants to try to Right

[00:59:57] Like the fact that when he stabs the woman in the hand She feels the emotional response he wants And he feels the physical response she wants But she knows it's because of that Right And he wants it to just be an organic Inmate process rather than a calculation

[01:00:10] Right So that's why that happens But the thing is David is programmed only to love You know Whereas Jigolo Joe is like programmed to Respond and react to It's the difference between being programmed to love And being programmed to be lovable Right David is programmed to have love

[01:00:29] Right And programmed to never have that end Which is like you know It's the classic thing of like Oh wow You know he's way too into me I'm freaked out now Right You know like David He has no chill He's thirsty He's thirsty

[01:00:42] David's a fucking walking 11 year old 60 pound thirst trap Right Yeah Right and so that love is terrifying to her Which is why she's freaked out by him Because he's operating only based off of that Wait is that what a thirst trap is? A thirst trap

[01:00:54] Or is she not the I don't know what thirst trap actually means Thirst trap is when you're like putting out the bait You want people to be thirsty You're making it known You know Yeah I thought that it's like She's kind of a thirst trap You know

[01:01:06] Jude Law is Jude Law is a real thirst trap Yeah With his soft shoe dancing and puddles But I think Yeah I think the thing is that They program that into him Without any sense of how that would actually play As often happens with technology

[01:01:17] It's like this should work And you make it and you're like Oh we didn't realize it if this then that I like that when we do meet Professor Hobby again You think like finally his salvation Right they can figure this out for him You know Right

[01:01:30] And he instead is just like You know my son was one of a kind You're really interesting It's crazy how You're doing all this shit You're doing First of a kind We did not see this coming Anyway I'm gonna go get everyone

[01:01:41] I'll be gone for a 20 to few minutes You wanna go to a boardroom meeting? Who's who Who's who Why don't they fucking turn them off or something I mean I guess you can't But uh But I think it is that like You know there are some

[01:01:54] Most movies are about love in one way or another Right And love is like the most dominant And sort of powerful and cathartic human emotion And Spielberg's an emotional filmmaker And he's making a movie about the curse that is Love Right but it's a fragment of love

[01:02:09] Like they haven't fully understood it I think It's more of a devotion right Like it's more of a Well it's a child's like understanding of love Where you have these feelings And you don't know how to intellectualize them And that's the problem is that

[01:02:19] He is not able to intellectualize anything He just needs a place to put this thing That he has And there's like You know these fragments where his love sort of takes the form of obedience Right Like What does he wanna do except sort of serve her

[01:02:35] Except he wants to serve her emotionally But like he can only do it by kind of acting out the emotions Of being a child Like you know There's just so many weird disconnects to what he's giving her And what I think they want him to give her Right

[01:02:49] Or what like a substitute child could actually do Well he's like this incomplete line of code He has a sense of wonder Like he wants to hear about Pinocchio He wants to write like you know There are things that he likes watching them eat food He likes like

[01:03:03] He likes it And he says he likes it And you believe him But at the same time like you know All he can do is sort of mirror and like Yeah Be nice, be helpful Right you know I don't know Yeah You guys know like initiative or drive

[01:03:19] Like he doesn't do anything a kid does which is like Behaviorally rationally And you know I mean there's that John Mulaney joke That I love about like You know he wished someone had asked him As a kid why he did the things he did Where it's like

[01:03:32] Why did she put these This firecracker in this carton of eggs And he would have said like I'm hungry I'm horny and I'm full of rage I don't know where to direct that so that's why I did this Like But David essentially has one emotion right

[01:03:44] And everything else stems out of that Like when he has fear It's fear of not being loved right That's the only Right that's the only sort of driving force he has So it's like he's an incomplete equation Yeah

[01:03:56] And he just needs to keep on throwing shit at the wall To try to get back what he wants Which is like He's never getting back what he wants The only way you could ever complete David's line of code Successfully is to make a mommy robot

[01:04:08] And they loved him as unconditionally And they could just infinite food back loop Which is what Right Which is like Guess kind of what they do in the final scene It's kind of what they want I think it's what they want They build a simulacrum of Yeah Right

[01:04:20] This movie makes no fucking sense That is what they give him At the end Right they give him a A monica but she's free of All human burden right And she has no memory Right Or her husband And she loves everything And so But then

[01:04:35] And then that's another thing That's so crushing about the movie And he's like well You know what kid It's not really monica Yeah Right Because in this monica world Like the real monica has a husband And another son And that informs who she is

[01:04:48] And that's who you originally wanted to love you And now you just have this Half roof feed zombie You know like I mean I've always read the movie As he's dying at the end of the movie Like his purpose has sort of been achieved

[01:05:00] So neither of them will wake up No Cause they say like For the first time he dreamt Right Like right that it's over That like the feedback loop has been closed Finally But yeah Like that's why I don't get Although I understand

[01:05:14] Like the idea that it's a happy ending It's not It's a sad ending It's a very sad ending I don't think it's I don't even know if it's sad I just feel like it's Yeah I guess it's Sad implies though Some human element to it

[01:05:28] And I find this It's a distressing It may be almost Yeah distressing I think it's disturbing I think it's extremely Disquieting Really disturbing Yeah I think it's like a Twilight Zone episode It's like a be careful what you wish for thing

[01:05:40] Where people talk about wanting to have this Like connection to their Spielberg Childhood Of like a sense of love driving you And not having to bring adult analysis Into stuff And he's like That would be a fucking nightmare Like you'd be trapped in a hell space

[01:05:53] Yeah it's like what Teddy says When he says we are in a cage When they're trapped under the Ferris wheel In the amphibocopter And he's so happy cause he's just going to stare at the blue fairy For until he comes real Teddy's like Oh fuck this

[01:06:06] This really sucks dude Like we're in a cage Like you have to sort of Kill the child inside of you partially In order to be functional Because if you try to remain a child living in the world The world will destroy you Alright

[01:06:18] And if you try to leave Have your love just like exist unbridled Without any chill It will destroy you And also if your only goal is to have somebody love you Like you're going to be impossible to love You're unlovable

[01:06:29] And you are gonna not even be fully human Yeah You know like Yeah it's It's effed up Alright It's really crazy I'm just gonna We need to move forward Do you like the performances of the pair Frances O'Connor who never happened She was supposed to happen

[01:06:46] She was in Bedazzle like the year before this She was in Mansfield Park I mean she's pretty good Monica she plays Oh right I like her She's very selfish at the end there You know like when she makes that decision She sells that well Like that she

[01:07:02] She knows she fucked up Like she knows she like probably shouldn't You know turn this stupid kids Like love emotion on or whatever Imprinting But she's too much of a coward to To just burn him up Yeah like so and like It's a nicely prickly performance

[01:07:18] Yeah it's Sam Robards He's an okay jerk I think he's fine He feels a little one dimensional to me Yeah There's even like at the beginning He's got to make a meal out of Explaining the robotics to her They give him like a big

[01:07:31] Like half a page dump of exposition About the technology And he kinda can't make that sing He's learned Bacall and Jason Robards Son right? Yeah Whoa really? Oh interesting But he was also I mean He didn't have as much buzz to make it happen

[01:07:46] But I think certainly getting this big of a Partners Fieldwork movie Seemed like it was gonna push him And it didn't happen for him either But he has to play a He's a good Broadway actor I mean he has to play a An asshole Right

[01:07:57] He's playing a human in this movie Which means by extension You're playing an empty shell Right A monster It's a pretty underwritten role The kid Jake Thomas is like Two kid for me He doesn't quite hit for me Oh see I like it because he's two Kid

[01:08:10] Like I would hit that performance In a different movie I think for this movie You need someone who's acting So much like a movie I do like his little like braces Yeah it's a little plastic thing I like that they're kid colored

[01:08:20] They look like they're for a kid Like let me cheer you up about Your paralysis or whatever The hell it is happening Well I'm agreeing What do you think of the Scissors scene The only other thing Because like that's the thing where When you're watching you're like

[01:08:31] Why the fuck would he do this Like surely there's some piece of his code Yeah that does feel right But I mean I think it's a Spielberg is trying to illustrate Like whatever you think about Like laws of robotics Right like they've fucked them up

[01:08:41] By making this weird thing Right because the love overrides Every other command Right like it's messing things up But of course like why the hell Would he it's like it's almost too obvious To sort of situation that You could take the wrong way

[01:08:54] And he's got that sort of He literally gets the kid Standing over your front Right right And when you literally have her like Toss over in bed so that Her eyeball is right next to the Bladons Like you're milking it a little bit Stevie Yeah I agree

[01:09:07] Yeah I don't know But you gotta get that strand You know you gotta get that strand Of hair that lock Other performances I mean it's like William Hertz really good in it In a small role Jude Law is fantastic Oh Jude Law rules yeah

[01:09:22] We should talk about Jude Law Well no we're moving so yeah Alright so then you know He runs he escapes I mean he's evicted He's made to go to the woods Right And you immediately cut to these things You know like he and these other

[01:09:33] Poor sad abandoned robots Who also have a purpose right I mean I guess it's only to survive But like going to like the mountains Of robot garbage and Right Plugging their like hands and faces on Blank track host David Could I speak on that

[01:09:45] Yeah sure go ahead Benbot I'm glad that With substantially less land on the planet They're still dumping garbage in the woods Benbot I issue you ten comedy points Thank you What do you guys think of the The flesh fare The rising moon Brendon Gleason

[01:10:05] I think all that stuff is boring I mean I understand they have to Have it to have something dynamic happen I would also say this is maybe The most troublesome part of the movie I don't know I do like a lot of it

[01:10:15] I agree I think they're interesting Ideas I think it goes on for way too long Does go on for a little too long And I mean this is actually The thing I like the most Is not so much the very obvious Thing where the crowd turns on

[01:10:25] Better Brendon Gleason But before where the guy Who runs the flesh fare The dad whose daughter is like I think there's a little boy in this cage And like that he He admires like the craft of it So much that I don't know Like there's something

[01:10:41] I like that philosophical difference That plays out between him and Gleason Gleason is more like I mean you almost kind of know What he means where he's like This is fucking insane That someone would make this Right I'm now twice as motivated to kill it

[01:10:54] This is a nightmare Like why would you do in the other Gleason's argument Gleason actually makes The most compelling intellectual argument About why this is all so disturbing It's like they're going to start making Robot kids so that we don't even Have our own kids

[01:11:11] Doesn't this sort of imply That it's maybe a robot for pedophiles Doesn't that go like Probably some sick fucking billionaire I feel like there's one line That makes it sound like It's maybe a sexual thing I thought of it that way But I mean it's not the

[01:11:22] I mean the nightmare of the flesh For I guess is more like how it's playing out Sure I remember especially at the time Which was like you know The Bush era It felt maybe too loaded Because they're like a NASCAR crowd

[01:11:35] Like you know it's too on the nose It's pretty red state It's very red state They all have like how boy hats And they're all like It's a monster truck 90s rock 90s rock band is playing A new metal band essentially Your kid rock is great Yeah exactly

[01:11:48] Your kid rock I love watching like movies like this And when they do that shot Of like the weird kind of like Guar mega death Like costumed metallic armor guy Just imagining Steven Spielberg Have to go in the office And it's like so here are the concepts

[01:12:02] For the metal band Like there was a day where That was like 45 minutes Here are the day glow shark bikers Right Like that's what he had to He had to sign off on those things He was like no this is good This is great

[01:12:12] I think the quad piece should be sharper I really like the moon thing I like that inversion Especially because of how much That's part of like Spielberg's iconography With ET and the Amblin logo To make it to this like sense of dread So I love that reveal

[01:12:27] And then once again I think them The sort of capture is kind of interesting I mean I love the sort of just like The moonlit dark kind of silhouettes Of all these different robots running away Once they get to the flesh It gets a little on the nose

[01:12:40] A little much I think that I like the robots Like I like all the abandoned little guys Looking for their parts in the pylon stuff More like when they like It's like here's a nanny bot Who got too creepy or too old Or what I like

[01:12:53] Here's a weird war robot Who's you know I like all those little guys I also I love Chris Rock Yeah He goes a little too hard With the voice cameos in this movie I do like that I feel like in a lot of movies with robotics

[01:13:06] There is a uniform robotic style Oh sure right It's all like the old modes Of the old fashion is Right Not only different generations That guy was like I was times mecca the year 75 years ago I think he's got like weird spaghetti on him

[01:13:19] But not only are they like Okay clearly these are different generations But also like Well different companies would make robots In different ways Yeah it's like phones Yeah right exactly Which I like I love that It's like okay these are Like clearly mechanical robots That have human features

[01:13:32] These are ones that have human flesh Over a mechanical skeleton Here's one where it's a TV screen Like you know All the different levels of that I do think this is a part of the movie Where Spielberg's reluctance to

[01:13:46] Turn the gears and do any sort of Spielberg set pieces Actually is a detriment to the movie Yeah you almost wanted to have a little more fun Because there's no tension Because immediately the girl notices him there And then just becomes a conversation

[01:13:58] While this massacre is happening in the background But there's no sort of like daring escape There's no like is he gonna get out in time Well there is a teddy Yeah teddy being shot But otherwise it's just kind of like

[01:14:09] A bunch of people talking while all this shit happens In the background Yeah there's not a lot of dramatic attention There's not I like looking at the robots Like action wise But now isn't that appropriate Given that according to the logic of this Maybe not though

[01:14:25] I mean they might as well just be burning toasters right I mean these robots are not Are the robots at the flesh fair Do they have artificial intelligence Are they deserving They have some right Our respect Well some of them seem to have a lot of fear

[01:14:40] But then like the au pair robot But they don't resist as we're told And that's what the woman in the crowd says When David resists Like they never plead for their life Robots don't plead for their life I think is what she says

[01:14:52] That's a weird delineation because like the Chris Rock robot Is like cracking jokes but he seems scared Right It's true Like he's like oh come on man you don't have to do this There's a lot of It's a little blurry about It's a little blurry about

[01:15:06] What is actually the What is actually going on in these robots Brains Right Well like you get to the nanny robot Who I think is like the most striking piece of imagery In the whole movie For whatever reason that always really stuck with me

[01:15:18] With the face and then all the gears behind it Especially once the face starts melting off But she Her programming so clearly is based in just Nurturing And caring for a child Even when she's being melted off She remains a totally cool, common collected face

[01:15:33] I wish there was more of that Because it is very interesting And it would have played up this tension Or this synchronicity between the roles that humans Or human's identities Whether it's professional or personal And how those identities are sustained through trauma

[01:15:48] Or you know what I mean like The nanny robot I feel like is interesting like you say Because oh right She can't freak out Nannies aren't Nannies are paid to not freak out Right They are calming They keep the kids You know feeling safe

[01:16:04] Like the thing that's simultaneously Really interesting and really frustrating about this movie Is that it kind of feels like what he's implying is That there are not laws of robotics in this movie That like every robot's different Right And that they function in different ways

[01:16:17] Different purposes by different companies And there aren't these overriding rules of like You know So the pleading for the life thing It doesn't feel like that's like Well we all know that legally Robots don't plead for their lives It's just we don't see that

[01:16:28] And I think the other element to that is Even if they plead for their lives The Chris Rock one is sort of joking about it And it feels like it's just like Well he's programmed to do that The love element to David makes it feel more palpable

[01:16:39] Like that's the whole thing is For whatever reason humans respond differently to David They seem in the cage of the goat That has to be a real boy And even after he scans him He's like what the fuck's going on Why would you do it?

[01:16:50] What's the purpose of it? And it's not just the level of external craft Because he looks very human But so does the woman in William Hurd's He still looks waxing Yeah there's just something there There's like a terror in his eyes Which gets into like

[01:17:03] I mean it's like what makes a good actor Versus a bad actor Like something just seems believable Or it doesn't And this kid is just like The best actor they've ever seen Yeah he's a good actor That's part of it Although you know

[01:17:17] If you haven't made your home He might walk in on you in the bathroom Like you know Yeah He's not that chill No chill Do you guys believe in true artificial intelligence? Do you think that'll ever happen? I can't wrap my mind around it I really can't

[01:17:31] Like I can't conceive of it I think it will I try not to think about it too much Because it freaks me out Like if I try to actually run through What would need to happen And the logic of it freaks me out

[01:17:41] But I kind of just can't believe We wouldn't ultimately get to that point The only way I think we honestly don't get to that point Is if humanity ends Like prematurely I just don't really Yeah I can't wrap my brain around it

[01:17:54] It would just be us programming something Right I just don't I don't get Like I get that I could probably Read more about this About how it would be on that But I'm just like It would be us making a million different Leavers to press

[01:18:06] Inside a robot's code I would have to get to the robots Making robots kind of thing I think I don't get it I think what I'd I can't wrap my brain I'm not kidding I can't either which is why I just go it must happen

[01:18:20] Because I can't think about it Like it stresses me out too much To even dig into it So you're just assuming it's a given At some point Yeah I have to accept the space as infinite Even though if I think about that I lose my mind

[01:18:31] Like I would as a child When I was like a lonely little Like David robot in my bed I'd like sit up And I'd look at the ceiling And I'd just be like Okay so just imagine there's a rocket ship And it just keeps going fucking forever Right

[01:18:41] And I'd go insane Right Insane And I'd like scream And like claw at the walls What a weird kid Yeah I was David God I'd fucking leave you in the woods Yeah my parents tried And I went to Mr. Dr. No And they told me

[01:18:55] Where my parents were Okay so you know His safety response bonds him To Jiggler Joe Like his right Like that's all that's happening there Just grab on to somebody and don't let go Like keep me safe Right It's amazing that Jiggler Joe doesn't enter

[01:19:06] Until 55 minutes in this movie He's great I mean I guess at this point We've already seen his We've had his little introduction His introduction is the murder thing Yeah Yeah no his introduction Is the start of act two Right So David is You see David receding

[01:19:19] In Monica's rear view mirror And then over And then over black You hear a woman say I'm afraid Right And Jiggler says You're afraid that I'm gonna hurt you She's literally afraid of his robot penis Yeah I mean I just wanna know what he's got in there

[01:19:33] I mean I know we keep saying it but like Imagine if Steven Spielberg Didn't make this movie Yeah And somebody else made this movie And they were like What's the backstory of this movie And he'd be like Well I fucking hate Steven Spielberg

[01:19:46] And I wanted to make the least I wanted to make a movie That people thought was a Spielberg movie And then when you spend more than Two seconds thinking about it You realize this isn't This is a It's about how Spielberg movies are Annihilating argument

[01:19:59] Against this assholes entire career And Spielberg did that to himself That's why I feel like That's what I mean I've always thought that Spielberg obviously is like Very, like Must understand something about humans If he can make these movies That we respond so powerfully to Yes

[01:20:14] But I always felt like I don't know It seems kind of like Ron Howard Like is he really interesting Is he really Red Curcagard Is he just a robot That has a program To understand how to Help that response happen I am programmed to make humans

[01:20:24] Love me by my movies I will make movies to make you Love me My child will induce love Yeah, but this movie Kind of makes me feel like Not that he's self-hating But that he That um Yeah, I don't know Anyway You don't have to put that in

[01:20:36] You were still doing the plot summary We're keeping that in I just feel like Steven's This is the movie You want me to cut that out No, Ben I feel like this is the movie Where I'm like Steven Spielberg might be One of the most interesting people

[01:20:47] In America I'm with you baby Do you know what I mean Oh yeah Here's an interesting thing Is after this movie And now he's guys on studio And he can do whatever he wants Right He does so few Classic Spielberg-y movies He's doing a lot of different

[01:21:01] Genre exercises When he goes through something Like Indiana Jones 4 It's a disaster And he clearly can't get back To the thing Yeah, he has trouble slipping into You know his classic vibe He does like He more makes adult dramas now You know his best movies First this are

[01:21:15] Minority Report, Munich And uh And well Lincoln's More of a classic Spielberg movie And British But he's back in it now But it's also It's austere Like he's making He's now finally evolved into He can make more of his Like classic Spielberg or whatever

[01:21:29] But it is this sort of like Yeah, kind of darker Or austere Well there's a better word for this Like I don't know Slightly more world weary tone Yeah It's the best way And it's someone struggling To find the best in humanity Rather than trying to like

[01:21:43] Project everyone Like we're all gonna make it Oh right Because like Bridget Spies Is very much a movie about like One decent man can do a lot The guy's like Well we don't have to follow the rules Right And it's like I don't know And he's like

[01:21:55] No I think we should have him You know like That was weird little Yeah But the key to that And I think this is Sort of what you're getting at Rhys Is that like He got blamed so much Has been blamed so much Over the decades for like

[01:22:07] Killing adult cinema Right Because Jaws created the blockbuster Right And then it was like He and Lucas kind of perpetuated This thing where it all became Genre exercises Genre got elevated to high art Those were the movies that Changed the entire Theatrical model Right

[01:22:20] You know of how things create Of opening weekend And then there's nothing of Merchandising All that sort of stuff And it feels like It happens I mean this I think is the big Fulcrum point In his career And certainly now we're at The other end of it

[01:22:32] Where it's like When he tries to make a Spielberg Movie In a traditional like Amblin-y sense It doesn't really work It's the BFG You know BFG's a good example But when he tries to make The movies that are either Applying the Spielberg things To adult minded things

[01:22:45] Which feels like He's trying to like Do the mea culpa And like I'm the one guy With the sway to still get The kind of movies made That used to be made Before I started making movies And he's very publicly Before I eradicated Very publicly disdainful Of Hollywood

[01:22:57] And what he thinks Hollywood's Doing right now He thinks the model's F**ked up now And he's like it's all $200 million movies You can't get anything made And you're the one Who kind of created that Not consciously I mean he made a David bot

[01:23:08] And then God knows where He's Dr. Hobbies Professor Hobbies That's what he did He like made a thing Because he wanted to make it And his intentions were good And the thing he made was Good but it had these Destroyed humanity Yeah Right and he's trying

[01:23:20] To like f**king bring it back Right You know he's using the lock Of hair and is like How do I make a Capra movie Put Tom Hanks in it You know Right So I think this movie is him Starting to like really Contemplate his legacy

[01:23:31] But then it was sold And packaged as like Spielberg does sci-fi again Yeah right And everyone was furious Right God is there any chance Who could get him on the show To talk about this movie I would love To talk to him about this Maybe one day hopefully

[01:23:43] Maybe in my life I'll get to talk to Steve Spielberg for some reason Right he'll make a movie Maybe he'll want to talk to A journey He'll make a couple episodes Of the tech this season Maybe you can get me an intro But you know

[01:23:55] This would be the movie I would love to know the most About I'd love to pick his brain about If you have one director And you can talk to that director About one movie they've made Would this be the movie I'd love to talk to him about that

[01:24:05] I mean it would just be Such an interesting conversation Because you would learn so much Even in his Contemporary reaction To your questions He might be like I don't know I was trying some stuff It's pretty good Like your blog gets a good Or he might be like

[01:24:17] Thank you David You see what I was doing He takes like a cube out of his head Yeah right I'll say this I met Ang Lee once And did that Spele to him about Hulk And he did that exact thing Really? Like someone in Truth to Me

[01:24:30] Was like hey Hey this is Griffin He wants to talk to you about Hulk And he goes like Oh I'm sorry I'm sorry And I was like No no no I think I get it And I said my like 15 seconds And he literally went like Thank you

[01:24:43] And it was like Hush tones It was like I feel like I have to That's what I was trying to do Really? And he wasn't like It's a masterpiece right But he was like Yeah that's what I was Nobody gets that That's what I was going for Yeah

[01:24:56] And I kind of want to believe That Spielberg would do the same thing He'd be like He'd say that He would say Here's my fantasy He would say First of all David Rees It's so great to finally meet you And secondly It was a huge fan of

[01:25:09] Election Professionals Right exactly That podcast show Where are the other four episodes Of going deep on Amazon And then he would say Thank you That is the only movie I've ever made That matters Like It's the only good one And it says everything

[01:25:24] I left it all on the road out there I'm kind of in need of his whole I think it is sort of the key To unlocking his entire identity Really? Yeah I kind of do I think like I think it's It's definitely a key to unlocking

[01:25:36] His identity at this At this point You know in his career But I think that's the point This is the fulcrum point Of everything he ever represented I'm trying to find I mean I've certainly seen him Talk about the movie post The film's react You know the react

[01:25:50] Where he talked about the fact That it's like His amusement at the idea That people thought he tacked On the ending Where he's like That was Stanley Kubrick Like I was working With what he gave me And by the way It's not a happy ending

[01:26:02] Yeah that is part of a whole Right I don't know I mean I'd like to see more If him talking about this movie I mean I don't know I'm sure maybe he has Maybe he'll write a book Should he do one of those I mean honestly What's a

[01:26:15] What is a bleaker Big Hollywood movie That's a good question I mean there must be A couple other things But it's yeah This is right up there I don't know I mean and I'm not saying Because I mean obviously No you're right This is a bleak movie

[01:26:29] And it has a bleak ending Like it's not Have you ever seen that movie Seconds The Rock Hudson movie Seconds Yeah yeah Yeah Which is also Really kind of bleak And shattering Because the message is You can't start over You're doomed Right

[01:26:44] Well yeah like in the 60s and 70s The Hollywood movie The conversation is really bleak The conversation is the The fucking taxi drivers bleak Right This movie But I think when I talk about The dread in this movie It is interesting because It does feel like

[01:26:57] What you're saying Like Spielberg kind of killed Grown-up movies Yeah Or him and Lucas And the vibe that I get From this movie Is kind of that 70s Vibe of like Oh my god But then it's like A 2000s like sci-fi Like Big budget epic So it's like

[01:27:14] He's like bring you in And he's like you want the thing You like and then he slaps you In the face And it's like Dumb for wanting to And then makes you keep Oh yeah you want to see Skyscrapers that just look

[01:27:23] Like a huge pair of neon tits Alright But then Yeah I mean but that's the thing But people didn't react that way They kind of Reacted just like The fuck was that Like they didn't react With like Or I mean I feel like the overall Reaction wasn't like

[01:27:37] I'm bummed out It was more like Cheated or Cheesy A boy who can love And it's all Pinocchio It's all Pinocchio Why is he after fucking And you feel I think a huge part of it is You feel embarrassed Being pumped up for it Well no

[01:27:51] I mean also you feel embarrassed For him You feel embarrassed for David Like Dude 2000 years You're sitting underwater Looking at this dumb statue Just so to make you real Oh god That shot of the blue Fairy statue Just crumbling Is rough Yeah when he touches it Yeah Right

[01:28:07] Alright but I gotta get us back I think that's Part of like The reaction that audiences had Very much was like A typical teenager response Where it's just like This makes me feel weird It's dumb fuck you Yeah right yeah totally You know like

[01:28:21] Once it started out on a weird foot People just like Pushed it away and defensively We're like Laughing at it So they didn't have to engage with it Now can I Can I say one thing Yeah So do you know the movie critic Armand White Oh yeah

[01:28:34] We worked at the New York Press So when this movie came The glory years of Armand Right right And every screening I go to Right Nationally he's a critic For national review He is? So perfect Noted by a tour contrarian Yeah right One's called Steve McQueen

[01:28:47] A garbage man At the New York Film Critic Circle When they were giving Steve McQueen a Award Right but that same year Listed Jack and Jill As one of his top ten movies Of the year Right he is involved in a Decades long Performance of being

[01:29:00] A contanker as public Intellectual And I think even he No longer knows when He's trolling in when He's holding on to Legitimate anti-establishment Anti-Hollywood elitist gripes He's lost the game a little bit In the bit The bits got a little sloppy Yeah but especially back in

[01:29:14] The day in these days It used to be like When Armand White wrote About something he liked It was fucking beautiful Like he could write The most incredible stuff About stuff he liked But now he applies that To a resident evil retribution See that's interesting to me

[01:29:25] Because I've so So Armand White I'll explain to Your listeners who are not East Coast elitists Used to write for this week No we have an Only at least So everyone remember So you guys all remember The New York Press This amazing free alt weekly

[01:29:39] And he was the critic And he would always just take The opposite view of whatever The critical consensus was Most of the time He fucking loved AI artificial intelligence His review of AI I read it the other week Is so incredible It is

[01:29:52] And I could not find it Because the New York Press No longer exists The following week He started to review Another movie And then basically was like Ah fuck I need to talk About AI You idiots Don't understand How incredible this movie is And his argument in that

[01:30:09] His argument in that Initial review was People can't handle this Movie because they Can't remember They won't let themselves Remember what it's like To be a child And to need to be loved And that review Actually kind of made me Think like Oh Like Is that

[01:30:26] Is that why I Kind of thought this movie Was weird Am I too afraid To remind myself What it's like to be Vulnerable and needy I'm reading that review again I don't think he actually got it I don't think he got This is a good take You know

[01:30:39] Right when For when you just First saw the movie When you first see Yeah but I think in the end It's wrong I think it's not that People made fun of the movie Because they couldn't handle The pure Bottomless innocence Need and longing That defines our childhood

[01:30:56] And the weird Freudian erotic relationship That initial bond Between mother and child Especially if it's mother and son And all that stuff I don't think that's what it is I think it's more like What you were just saying I think people reacted Weird to this movie

[01:31:10] Because they can't handle How fucking bleak the message is Which is that Love is doom Yeah You know It's a curse It's like a thing we have to Overcome Like a disease Yeah We have to use all our other Facilities and facilities as a Human being

[01:31:25] To still function Even though we have this Love thing driving us The sum total of human Experience Storytelling And mythmaking And institutions And family and religion Is to overcome the fact That we are empty Right You know what I mean And we will never be filled Yeah

[01:31:40] I kind of feel like That's what makes the movie So kind of profound in a way And also why everyone Made fun of it And snickered in the movie Theater when I was watching It way back then But I do think When you're a kid You feel that

[01:31:53] And you don't know How to put it into words And you don't understand What's going on But that's that loneliness Yeah When you try to deal with it And you push things away And you bring things closer And what have you When like People want to see

[01:32:05] Like ambivalent type movies They want to be reminded Of parts of their childhood That they still look back On fondly And this movie is about A feeling that people Don't put into words That everyone tries To forget when they grow up Yeah I feel like

[01:32:17] This movie is kind of Like goes You know It's like There's so much adult Culture now That just trades in nostalgia Right And Spielberg obviously Huge part of that Right for nostalgia and mommy's love. This is that you are an empty shell and you always will be,

[01:32:34] and someday all of humanity will be erased. Right, you love Gremlins because Gremlins made you feel less close to death for two hours when you were 10. Absolutely. Yeah, right. Anyway. AI analyzes how one loves by fathoming the need for love. Are those happy tears?

[01:32:47] David asks his distraught mother, in such moments, AI's unprecedented combination of curiosity and intimacy is breathtaking. The breathtaking. I remember that review, yeah. The end of his review. Anyway, good movie. At the same time, this is a movie that I would totally get a kick out

[01:33:03] of watching some comedian do like 10 minutes just ripping it to shreds. It's a movie where I understand people disliking it, I guess. You know what I mean? Like, I... Yeah, no. I mean, that's what's so audacious about it. It is preposterous. It's preposterous.

[01:33:20] That's a great way to put it. It's truly preposterous. And it's so unconcerned with the most logic. Yeah, it's so ambitious and so... It is. It's like, you know... It's like, it's preposterous in the way that cathedrals are preposterous. They're reaching for something so ineffable and so sublime.

[01:33:38] It really does feel like he's trying to make a sublime movie, right? Where you can't really put all the... It doesn't, like, the flowchart is never going to make sense. There is not a coherent theory of artificial intelligence of Vizavi, Gigolo Joe versus David.

[01:33:57] You know, it's contradicting itself. It just turns into this deep... Like I said earlier, just a deep, churning, incredibly bleak emotional sludge, you know, in a way that... I say it feels very human. I mean, it's very muddied in the way that all human struggles with the profound

[01:34:15] are muddy. But it is... Well, and like the Bible works on an emotional level more than intellectually. Right, yeah, it is. Because it contradicts itself all the time it's aiming at some sense of feeling. Something that relates to this is the Dr. Nose scene,

[01:34:27] which I love, which is like... The idea of trying to... Nothing he doesn't. There's nothing he doesn't... The idea of trying to break all human knowledge down to this algorithmic machine, right? Is so weird because one, he's trying to trick you. That's the best thing about Dr. Nose.

[01:34:43] Maybe he's like, you better ask him, he's like a weird oracle, right? Like he's like a snake. It's a Carney game, they're just trying to get money out of you. But at the same time... Well, new bucks. Right, right. Yeah, they try to get some new bucks, yeah.

[01:34:54] Which is the best, by the way. But... It's maybe my favorite name for future currency. The weird puzzle of trying to get a proper answer out of him where they have to combine flat fact with fairy tale. Right. Is like he's trying to tell us something.

[01:35:10] Because if the movie has a set piece it's the fucking Dr. Nose, right? Yeah, where Robin Williams... The most tension is there, they only have nine questions. Robin Williams plays a cartoon Mr. Einstein. And he's going full goofballs McGillicuddy and that's the most tension in the whole movie.

[01:35:24] Is Robin Williams going like, ask him a question, there's nothing? I don't know. And then he's like... Oh, Pinocchio. Like the way he is. He becomes so reverent. But then what's really crazy is then you hear Hobbie hacked into him to give... Yeah, right, yeah.

[01:35:39] I mean it makes no... It's crazy. It's preposterous, that's my final... Roush City's actually not much of the movie. No. In my head it was a little more but really and I watched this with Joanna and G. It's the most expensive part of the movie but certainly not.

[01:35:52] That scene where they go through the lady mouth tunnels. Agent Grenier is loving it. Agent Grenier wants that... The porn bot on his dick, you know? Yeah, yeah, he had a little dance on his dick. I think you think like, alright, here we go.

[01:36:06] But I do love the idea that Chick-O-Ludger's like, check this place out, I was made here. You know, I learned all my tricks to the trade here and he's like, okay, yeah, where's the nearest? Doctor No? Right. No, he's... Yeah. And then of course...

[01:36:21] I mean, I really do think the religious metaphors are obvious in this movie but I do like that Chick-O-Ludger gets that moment where he hangs outside of the church. Right. And he's like, this is when people want to see me the most. Right, yeah, yeah.

[01:36:33] When they come out of here, yeah. We've talked about the whole movie now because then of course the end... We talked about Adam and the Lord. We mostly dove into the end. That was our beginning. The end is his self-awareness, right?

[01:36:48] He comes to meet Hobby, he realizes he is back, you know? This is the most... Yeah, this scene is right. He meets his double and... This is when people really start laughing. I think this is when people really... I mean my experience watching it in the theater...

[01:37:01] It's so uncomfortable. How do you not laugh? It's so uncomfortable when he said... And maybe this is what... Maybe this is a moment that Armand White gets out in his review when he's saying I am special, I am unique, I am David.

[01:37:12] I mean he's really putting it all out there in a way that the rest of us spent our entire lives doing that as subtext. Right. You know what I mean? But for him to do it and then to literally destroy his doppelganger

[01:37:24] because he realizes he is not special, there's boxes in boxes. And one of the boxes is moving. It's like very... That scene is just so... Over the top and just... I love it. I love it too. And then that final line of his

[01:37:41] where my brain is falling out, which is such a great childish encapsulation of awareness of mortality or one's like... Or your mind being blown. My brain is falling out. Can I throw out one more angle that I think is important to talk about with this movie?

[01:37:57] We talked a lot about it being sort of a horror movie about the terror of being a child and not being able to understand what you feel and all of that. This is also a horror movie about being a parent. Like I think this is totally

[01:38:09] from Spielberg's perspective as it due to has a bunch of kids, right? Oh does he? Yeah, a bunch. He did birth. Himself came out of his own penis. A lot of children. And I think this is to some degree a movie...

[01:38:26] I don't think this is the main thesis but I think it's a thing he's wrestling with is the terror of bringing something into the world and printing it and knowing that forever that thing's going to be tied to you. Yeah, I never...

[01:38:38] I'm not a parent so I haven't thought about that angle. Yeah, this is... I mean three non-parents talking about this. There's people who are parents who can't watch this fucking movie. I have friends who are parents and can't watch this movie. Because it's like a terror of

[01:38:54] this is my fear of what will happen if I bring a child into the world. This is my fear of what could happen too much while I already have. And just that they will forever ever be defined by your relationship to them and it will never go away.

[01:39:08] Whether you're present, whether you're abandoned then... That's true, you're right. And then his... I interpret him like his self-defense mechanism finally kicks in and he decides to die, right? I don't know what else that's supposed to be when he basically just pitches himself off.

[01:39:24] He says mommy and then he throws himself off the skyscraper. Yeah, he doesn't have any. And you know, I used to... People used to... I feel like as they came around... I know! You just send it out loud! It's so crazy! It's so intense.

[01:39:38] Oh God, and then Jigolo Jogat sucked away the final line, I am I was. Which is, yeah, right? That's a robot summing up my experience of death. Right, yeah, totally. We don't have time to get into this, but God, what a weird career Jude Laws had.

[01:39:52] He's had a weird career! Especially when in this movie it felt like this is going to be the anointment, you know? Right, this is the beginning of Superstardom. But Spielberg gets like, Jude Law is an uncommonly pretty odd looking guy. He's a little too slick.

[01:40:08] He's like, a sort of perversion of a movie star. Yeah, yeah. Like some sort of ersatz movie star that has the look, but there's just something off about him. And then he goes like... Yeah, yeah. He moves so well in this movie. He looks like a fuckboy.

[01:40:24] It's incredible. He looks like a fuckboy? He moves like a fuckboy, Ben Bott? Yes. Define fuckboy. Alright. A fuckable boy. Okay. But you know, in the same... Where's the next year he's in Road to British? That's the good Jude Law shit. He needs to be

[01:40:42] something a little weirdo. He's a great character actor. That thing that happens a lot with like an incredibly handsome, charismatic dude everyone thinks is a leading man and then they realize they're a character actor. And his breakout was Talented Mr. Ripley in which he played a really handsome,

[01:40:56] charismatic dude but as a character part. So everyone was like, oh just make him the lead of stuff. It's like too slick. It never really works. It only works in Cold Mountain. Yeah. There's notes for us, David. A really literal question.

[01:41:10] So in the final shot of the movie, Monica has fallen asleep and David is in bed with her and the voiceover says that he goes to the place where dreams are born and Teddy crawls up on the bed and watches over them. I was hoping we'd get this.

[01:41:24] The next day what does Teddy do? Fucking sits and contemplates. Does he do 2,000 years of focused meditation? Here's the other question about Teddy. Monica turns him on when she brings him back. So there is the implication that you can kind of hibernate that guy, right?

[01:41:42] But who's going to do that now? Maybe they like him too. Maybe there's a Teddy museum. If Spielberg didn't want you to be asking that, I don't think Teddy would be in the final shot. Yeah. I think it's a mirror of I think obviously the most obvious

[01:41:56] analogy came just a few minutes ago in the movie when they sat looking at the Blue Fairy for 2,000 years and Teddy said we're in a cage and then now we're in a second cage because now Teddy, because you're pulling out the final shot

[01:42:12] they pull out through the window of their house reconstruction or whatever it is and again you're basically in a glass box kind of witnessing helplessly or wishing on this idealized fuck this is what it is. Okay, so think about it. He's in the amphibocopper for looking at

[01:42:32] this idealized vision of motherhood, Madonna everything. And God and God. Just the whole kit in Kaboole. The creator. Just wishing, wishing, please please make me a real boy. Make me a real boy, right? For 2,000 years and Teddy's in there like I can't believe

[01:42:48] we're sitting here for 2,000 years in this cage. This kid is never going to get what he wants. Right? Then they get saved. Then they get saved. Call my girl for until I'm canceled. And then the movie ends with Teddy presumably, there's no reason not to believe

[01:43:02] this wouldn't happen, spending the rest another 2,000 years now looking not at the idealized image of mommy slash God but this I guess a piada, right? A tableau, yeah of the mother and the son reunited in death. Yeah, in a death embrace. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:43:18] I mean, if Spielberg didn't want you thinking about that knowing he's just a filmmaker of such intentionality even when he's bad, there's nothing that's in there by accident. Right? Even in the Wikipedia recap the last line, Teddy climbs into the bed

[01:43:30] and watches as David and Monica lie peacefully together. But he doesn't climb into the bed, he climbs onto the bed like even though that's a big decision. Yeah, he sits at the foot of the bed and he doesn't lie down he sits facing towards them

[01:43:40] and that's the last thing the movie leaves you with is just looking at them sitting. And then all the lights in the house are going out until it's just that one The silhouette of Teddy looking at two dead people. Oh my god. Teddy won.

[01:43:54] Teddy gets out of this one a lot. But yeah, no, I mean when it was watching this for Joanna and when the you know, when the fucking thing falls on him and she was like Jesus it's gonna end like this and I was like no, it's

[01:44:08] worse. Like you know, like you think it'll end. That's when everyone thinks it ends right. And the big criticism they should have just ended with him staring at this dumb statue underwater forever. Right? But that feels incomplete to me. And that's a less challenging ending. Yeah, I agree.

[01:44:22] You just walk out and you go well that's dark you don't have to think about it. Poor guy never got what he wanted. That's a shame. The real ending is like oh he got what he wanted like he's a mother's love is pretty messed up.

[01:44:36] They have that coffee rotary thing the little carousel of coffees I mean coffees these guys have. That's why I couldn't stop thinking about doing the coffee. They have like nine brands of coffee. Yeah that's definitely my major take on her husband. Yeah Monica and her husband. Jesus.

[01:44:48] They're like, hey, man, that's why they call it Manhattan. And like don't try and tell don't try and think why a massive Cybertronics company would have its headquarters in a flooded city. They're like hey just don't use floors one through 25. Yeah right yeah yeah. I don't care.

[01:45:08] I don't know. Helicopter and fibicopter to the top of the building and then elevator down. Yeah. Do you think there are people like in the mail room who are just like seeing fish floating by? Yeah right underwater. Yeah. So I'm glad well yeah

[01:45:24] I actually did not think we were all going to like this movie and glad that we all at least thought it was interesting. Yeah I love it. I think it's a great movie. I think it's a great American movie. I think it is

[01:45:37] I think it's one of the most I mean it's a cop out. It's a very very interesting movie. That's fine. And I think it's doubly interesting because of who made it and because of the budget and because that it was actually in

[01:45:51] movie theaters outside of his own mind. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It feels like it's a hell of a year for movies too. It comes in a crazy great year for movies. In 2001 yeah. Well on Drive that's a good movie. Gostered Park

[01:46:05] which is one of my favorite movies. Great movie. Rush Hour 2 Rural Tenenbaum's and Memento. A lot of like influential movies. Waking Life is that year. Donnie Darko which is not a movie I love but is a movie that's had a footprint. Those are ambitious movies. Track.

[01:46:25] Fast and the Furious. Yeah. Dr. Doolittle too. Do you think they should have just when they watched the final cut of this movie been like you know what Steven we all love it. This is a profound piece of filmmaking. How would you feel if we said it was

[01:46:39] a David Lynch movie? Yeah right. It was a David Lynch movie I feel like everyone would go in with the right sense because Mulholland Drive actually is another movie that does give me kind of the same feeling of dread. Yeah. You know. I like

[01:46:51] it makes me I have more fun watching that movie. Then AI. Yeah. Yeah. It's just I mean it's just I know what you mean it certainly has very profound sense of dread but it's more it's literally more fun like it's having more fun. Yeah.

[01:47:05] But do you think if they had marketed it as a David Lynch movie people would have kind of gone in ready to have the moment of like oh shit this is so heavy bro. There is no question that Spielberg's name totally messed with people's

[01:47:19] perception of the movie. Yeah. Right. They're camping and also the fact that they released it in June which is an odd time. Right. And they also were very mysterious with the marketing I mean there was that whole thing. This was the poster was just the AI

[01:47:31] right you know like yeah but this was also the first movie to do what's the term I'm looking for in the marketing they did the thing. Do you remember this on the poster and in the trailer there was a credit block for like some sort of specific

[01:47:43] scientific assistant and someone leaked to like a whole news like oh if you Google that name and that weird credit and they did like they did like viral marketing right not augmented reality but what's the term no ARG ARG right yes there was

[01:47:57] like a whole ARG and he was the first person to like use this in mainstream marketing where they created a whole like sphere of websites for the companies connected to the movie and there was like a mystery to unlock. Oh

[01:48:09] people got really into it and that was like a lot of the marketing and then the trailers were very short right very sparse right very sort of enigmatic right you know there was like a very elaborate murder mystery that played out across hundreds

[01:48:21] of websites. What! You had to solve this murder of like a scientist yeah it was a runaway success but yeah it didn't actually fucking make any fucking sense compared to like this movie. Can I do a quick merchandise spotlight? Very quick. Very quick they thought oh Spielberg

[01:48:39] movie it's got a toy in it that's an obvious one so they like made a teddy I think using like Furby technology they like made a teddy and it was gonna come out that Christmas and they were like we gotta rush

[01:48:49] it we were behind the the wheel on this one so we gotta rush it to get out in time for Christmas and then June when the movie opens they're like oh shit and so they like pulled the plug immediately so the

[01:48:59] teddies go for like a thousand dollars now. Wow does the teddy say anything other than where is David? It's super teddy they try to make it look like the packaging of what it would be in the movie but I think they like it's a very

[01:49:13] very hard to find item. The fucking teddy bot is amazing you want to see. It's incredible yeah what do you mean. See the real you know how they made him. Oh it was a real robot oh they did it. But even when they do the CGI

[01:49:25] for some of the scenes where he's more physically active it's very well done. Yeah he looks great. And I don't mean this backhandedly but like the fucking stuff McFarlane Ted comes out like 12 years later and the CGI is as good

[01:49:37] in AI. Right. You know like there are no advancements have been made they just nailed it on the first try. Um box office game? Yeah. Okay. So it was June 29th 2001. Open 21 million is that correct? 29 million. Wow that's higher than I thought. Yeah it opened pretty

[01:49:51] well and then it only makes 78 so it really. Worldwide or domestic? No domestic. Worldwide I made 235 million dollars. So it actually did fuck. And what was the budget? 100 million dollars. Yeah. It's expensive. Yeah. A lot of shit going on in this movie. Is this Spielberg's least successful

[01:50:07] movie? No not by a long shot. Oh okay. But I will say I think at this point if you're taking out at this point it's one of his biggest bombs in the year. He only had a couple at this point that didn't make 100 million like it's

[01:50:19] like always didn't make 100 million. Always an amistad. And the other one. Empire of the sun. Oh right. And then save for Sugar Land Express like those are the only movies. In 1941. Oh right. But almost always he made over 100. So this was like a big difference. Definitely

[01:50:33] it's at the bottom end of his you know usually yeah even like Hook made a ton of money you know whatever like even his kind of crappy movies do well. And the color purple was huge even when he would do like drama like

[01:50:43] Schindler's List made like a ton of money you know. Right. Right. Yeah. And Save and Private Ryan three years early was the number one movie of that year. And that's a very like uncompromising hard to watch movie. Right. Number two is a movie Love.

[01:50:56] It's its second week. It's not here. Yes. Right. More of a summer fair. More your typical although if you really think about what's going on in those movies David it is so dark. I mean those movies are also about our unending

[01:51:11] need for love. Yeah. Well what movie isn't I mean Vin Diesel is kind of our mother you know culturally is the mother we're always seeking the approval from. Well it is interesting that the point of the movie is that they're driving a quarter mile like they're

[01:51:25] driving nowhere they're just driving like human condition man right we're all driving out and they all gather to watch this spectacle. OK number also car zooms and go fast. Number three is a sequel to a children's movie that you've already done to do a little too. Yeah.

[01:51:38] I actually loved the first one when I was I did too and I remember I have not seen the second one it was the day before my brother and I were both going to go to sleep

[01:51:44] wake at my parents dropped us off at the theater and they were like you can go see a movie like as long as you stay together you can go see a movie like that. I really want to see Doc do little too

[01:51:52] and he put his foot down for Fast and Furious which I was furious about at the time and he ended up saving my life. Yeah. You know bringing me into the franchise it really that was. I needed that number four is a very

[01:52:04] successful or quite successful video game movie. The first Resident Evil. No 2001 it was like a decent hit for a movie based on a video game it launched a star if you'd already won an Oscar. Tomb Raider Tomb Raider Tomb Raider. Yeah.

[01:52:20] What do you guys think of that? I never saw it. Pretty forget. You know what I'm thinking I've only seen a handful of Steven Spielberg movies when you're naming all these movies. I feel like I've seen. Well you probably saw

[01:52:30] the close encounters. I don't think I've seen close encounters all the way through. Have you seen Jaws. Yes. Seen the rate the Indiana Jones movie I've seen yeah and I've seen I see the I've seen the first Indiana Jones movie. Sure. I've seen E.T. right

[01:52:45] Adventures of Tenton though. No I had to do a hard pass on that. Listen to our episode about it later this. I've done I've seen A.I. and I've seen you've seen Shin-Liz less no hi Ryan no. I'm a stud no color purple no hook no the

[01:53:03] terminal you're missing a lot of minority report yeah yeah my buddies in that shot after Daniel really who is he Wally. Oh my god yeah the tech that's your guy that's your buddy yeah yeah he's not a college friend yeah

[01:53:18] um yeah catch me if you can you seen that one yes I got a guy running scam yeah yeah I've seen that yeah Leo de Caprio okay yeah yeah that's something different yeah yeah yeah war the world yeah okay yes all right now I'm in more I guess

[01:53:36] into late Spielberg Munich have you seen Munich yeah I have I have yeah so you got to go post 2000 and then you're on Tenton Lincoln no war horse no for just five no BFG probably not haven't seen so you know you gotta catch up to the

[01:53:51] recent effort what's number five number five is a very good movie by a an African-American director who that made a little bit of money I would say it's probably the last good movie he ever made so is it John Singleton

[01:54:06] movie yes it's the last good movie he made it is a very nice little movie though it introduced the world year before that is a baby boy baby boy okay which is a pretty small scale kind of in the almost like indie

[01:54:19] feeling drama there's a coming of age growing up yeah it would be in today at that time still made some movies like that yeah good movie yeah and then of course he goes on to make too fast too furious next I think yeah that's his

[01:54:32] next move yeah sort of falls off the deep in there that open to eight million in this weekend okay so yeah so AI doesn't really you know make a big deal at the box office it gets nominated for two Oscars score and visual effects both

[01:54:45] deserved and I feel like it sort of eventually becomes a bit of a critics darling but I mean like you know it's taking a long time for people to come around on AI yeah I feel like it also has become so scarred with its I'm

[01:54:58] not saying this is exclusively its supporter base but I feel like it is Spielberg movie for people who don't like Spielberg I agree with that can I give can I give a shout out to an essay somebody wrote they really yeah please do

[01:55:11] you were telling me I want to read this so the writer Timothy Crider I think it's Crider Kim reference Crider creator KR E I D E R wrote an essay for this movie in film comment short I think shortly after it came out yeah you got

[01:55:25] his name right Kim Tim cried and it's really insightful and really helped me understand why I find this movie disturbing so I just wanted to give a shout out to Tim's essay I'm looking at his cartoons right now he's got some cool cartoons

[01:55:38] nice shout out and I'd like to give a shout out to Going Deep with David Reese which you can find in a treasure chest at the bottom of the ocean yeah we are in a cage spend two thousand years bringing the

[01:55:50] Blue Fairy that will ever come out on a good DVD edition folks get inside your amphibocopter and hunt for that Blu-ray it's a great show and it's worth the time and it's yeah it is I'll say it again is a show that has actually

[01:56:02] changed the way I live my day-to-day life I love that I was I appreciate that thank you it's it's a real it's a gift of a program I totally love Going Deep and thank you so much for being on the show thank you so much for having me

[01:56:14] David it was great to have you I was so stoked to talk about this movie and I was so excited when I heard that you found this movie as fascinating as I do because it really is like one of the strangest movies I think I've

[01:56:26] ever seen in a way that feels very authentically strange instead of the whole point of this is that it's strange you know I mean it just feels like it's almost trying to be normal hey this is a Hollywood movie wait no no no we're trying to entertain you

[01:56:44] look at this you know Roussity you don't feel that big of a set if you don't think everyone's gonna get on board with your movie I just think it's such a fascinating movie so thanks for letting me come on to talk about it

[01:56:56] definitely thank you for having me thanks for having you thanks big thanks to us for having you on the show next week our minority report next week is Minority Report it's a great great great film and we have a cool guest what I'm not

[01:57:10] gonna say because every time I announce a guest then they end up canceling it so I'm not gonna jinx us but I think we'll have a really great guest on the next episode please remember to rate or subscribe on my channel come on man put some hot cat

[01:57:24] don't be afraid to ask for what you like review subscribe on iTunes I'd love it write us a review fellas don't give us zero stars unless you're a Sith Lord Ben Bot commence final thoughts yes we didn't get to it but the future music oh right I don't

[01:57:42] think it's free jazz so for I'm gonna shout out vaporwave so if anyone's interested in the vaporwave and you'll hear what real future music sounds like uh thank you very much Ben Bot thank you all for listening and as always Ben Bot initiates self destruct mode

[01:58:04] let's get out of here