Back to the Future

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to express All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check That was pretty good. I kind of like that.

[00:00:39] Podcasts. Where we're going, we don't need podcasts. That was good, but I'm just more into your Michael J. Fox just because it's like, you know, who has a Michael J. Fox? You think I'm well suited to a Michael J. Fox impression over a Christopher Lloyd impression?

[00:01:00] Sure, sure. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Look, he's on the smaller side. Sure. He's a little squirrelly. Doc! Yes, Marty. I don't know. I can't do it. No, I'm sorry. You go ahead. You go ahead, Ben. Go ahead. Do your thing. Doc! Marty, you made it.

[00:01:19] Yeah. Welcome to my Ladies' Experiment. This is the big one. The one I've been waiting for all my life. Well, it's a DeLorean, right? Bear with me, Marty. All your questions will be answered. Roll tape and we'll podcast!

[00:01:33] Ben really wants to do that one. I think it was so hyped to do that one. Yeah! It's like saying that we're rolling tape even though we've now been recorded for a minute.

[00:01:42] Also, Ben, should we mention you're wearing sunglasses? You've decided to go full Marty McFly for this episode. Listen, you gotta. This is a requirement for our listeners. You gotta pop your collar. You gotta roll your sleeves up and throw on some shades if you got them.

[00:01:54] I mean, he's got a rolled sleeve but he's also got a five-layer thing going on. Oh, wait, hold on. I just gotta pop my soda. Jesus Christ. Ben got a glass bottle of Coke and he's just popped the cap.

[00:02:06] That's pretty cool, Ben. How many pops did you buy for this? You also asked if you could skateboard into the episode.

[00:02:12] Yeah, which seems like that's not gonna be happening. I hate to stomp all over it, Ben, but I feel like you abandoned the skateboard into the podcast plan.

[00:02:21] Well, I was gonna be, of course, like hanging on the back of a truck and I would have then skateboarded into the episode that way. Look, I'll give you an entire episode to figure out how to hang tailpipe.

[00:02:32] Alright. I'm trying to think of like a good Uncle Fester quote. That's my favorite Christopher Lloyd. Whoa. Wait, you're giving me a woe for that declaration? Alone? That I'm just picking him over Doc Brown, I assume. I assume, I guess, maybe Daxi.

[00:02:49] Maybe he should have won the Oscar for this performance. Yeah, he's great in this movie, but have you seen and heard of Uncle Fester? I have. For your information, motherfucker. Pretty cool.

[00:03:00] I watched both of those movies recently. He's incredible in them. We will soon be rewatching Who Framed Roger Rabbit. He's incredible in that. And I have watched all of Daxi and he is unbelievable in that. His run was incredible. Incredible.

[00:03:17] And those are very different roles. Doom, Fester, Reverend Jim, Doc Brown. Yeah. Is there something we're free? I'm trying to remember. Is there anything else in his? That's the real golden run. He had other like big movies, but that's those are the top tier things.

[00:03:34] He's in Trek. Don't forget you haven't seen it, but you know, Commander Kruse. That's a great performance. I guess he's in Clue. That was fun. Right. There's the dream team, a movie that I like that's Michael Keaton, Christopher Lloyd, Peter Bolsteev and Root.

[00:03:50] Yeah. I never seen that one. Great, great, great gang. The Cortex. Great gang. The boys. I call them the boys. Of course, Switchblade Sam. We've shouted him out in Dennis the Menace of course. Well, that's what we're getting into the 90s period. And then you have...

[00:04:05] Yeah, still that's before Adam's Family Value. So I'm counting it. She got the Pagemaster. The Pagemaster. Radio Land Murders, Camp Nowhere, which I feel like is a big Ben movie. Am I correct? Camp Nowhere, Ben. I've never seen it.

[00:04:23] Wow. You know what it is? I think you'd enjoy. It's Bushwacked. I got confused. Bushwacked is the movie you love, right, Ben? Well, I don't know. I don't know Bushwacked either. You don't know? No. Are you kidding me? I feel like you've talked about Bushwacked before.

[00:04:36] Moushette, that's the movie you love, right, Ben? Let's just keep naming movies. It's that thing, Griffin, of like, you've got this run here and then the 90s where it's like he's consistently above the title.

[00:04:49] Like you think of the Pagemaster or like Angels in the Outfield, right? You know, that era. My favorite Martian, of course. Right. Camp Nowhere I always associate with Bushwacked and that they're both like, hey kids, here's that like supporting actor you loved in your movie.

[00:05:07] Let's try to build an entire movie around their persona. And it's like too much when they're kind of the sole lead. I've never seen Bushwacked but that is Daniel Stern, correct?

[00:05:18] That's a, that's sort of like a, what's basically intended is like let's just take Daniel Stern's home alone thing. It's kids terrorizing Daniel Stern. Right. And then Camp Nowhere is kind of, accepted is sort of a stealth remake of Camp Nowhere.

[00:05:35] It's kids hire like a burnout to pretend to be a camp director. You just said Camp Nowhere twice. I assume it's a remake of something else. Accepted. Didn't I say accepted? You said, oh, you, oh, I thought you were saying it's accepted that Camp Nowhere is a remake.

[00:05:54] No, no, no, my friend. Like you were saying like, look, broad consensus has formed around a few issues, you know, in American life. One of which of course is that Camp Nowhere is a remake of Camp Nowhere. Accepted the Justin Long College movie.

[00:06:10] Yes. Yeah. I saw Camp Nowhere in theaters. I do not remember it. Same here. I do remember when I was eight being hyped for a movie where there were no parents and no counselors and no rules. Obviously. It was a great picture. Very exciting.

[00:06:24] I think it's just Galba's first movie. So it had all the makings of a classic. A young just gal. Right. But I'm just saying, yes, he kept working. He stayed above the title. I feel like my favorite Martian is kind of the end of that run. Yes.

[00:06:35] I feel like he's been unfairly slept on for the last 20 years. I feel like I've talked about this before. It feels like he still got his fastball and he hasn't been given a proper role in a while.

[00:06:45] But that run is pretty incredible in terms of like Doomfester, Reverend Jim, Doc Brown, arguably all four of those performances became iconic and they're very different and they're very sort of like chameleon performances.

[00:06:59] Although he obviously had his like defining attributes, you know, his a high wire sort of energy. Right. His energy. Right. Yes. The specific energy. Right. Yes. Crazy eyes I suppose you would define it as. He has crazy eyes. But that's right.

[00:07:15] Like Judge Doom is very laconic wearing sunglasses. I mean we'll get to that. We'll do entire Judge Doom. Crazy eyes though. Okay. But they save it. I know. I know. Yeah, we'll get to that.

[00:07:28] We're here to talk about Back to the Future but first Griffin, broad consensus has formed around the idea that you should introduce the podcast. It's accepted. Oh, so it's accepted. It's accepted. Yeah, exactly. Right. Right. This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[00:07:45] I'm David. And that's the power of love. Of course. It's a podcast about filmographies, directories who have massive success early on in their career say their fourth movie ever and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

[00:08:02] Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. Right. Save the next 35 years of their career. Right. Right. I mean this is we've talked about this. This is an example. We were saying this in the Remancing the Stone episode of a clear so big that it's

[00:08:19] the checkbook will never be taken away from him. I think it's compounded by Roger Rabbit being kind of equally big and then the sequel by enlarge working like that run of spare. Yes, the run is crazy. Yes.

[00:08:33] And then that's why he gets to make movies forever because there are a lot of these movies plus Gump are pitches that would sound ludicrous in the room. Right. And so when Zemeckis comes to you and he's like, yeah, you know, it's this guy

[00:08:47] and he makes models and he's a foot fetishist and action figures represent his emotions. People are like, well, look, it's been a while but you did make back to the future. Right. So sure. Here's $100 million. It's also one of those movies where it was $200 even.

[00:09:07] I think it was about 40. Yeah. I think it was about 40 million thousand. Something like that. Billion. It's one of those movies to where it's like this is not an accident.

[00:09:20] There is no dumb luck at play, which is the other reason I think people keep on giving him the check. It's like this is such a tight movie. It is so deliberate. It is so well constructed. This isn't a guy who stumbled into something backwards.

[00:09:34] Can I say something that is pushing back on that but only slightly? I don't think this is a tight movie until 30 minutes in. Is that fair for me to say? I know I wouldn't.

[00:09:48] This is obviously a movie that feels perfectly constructed when it comes together at the end. It's just that immense Hollywood satisfaction of like, oh, this was all, you know, working this way for a reason. I think this is a slow start, which is fine.

[00:10:04] It's a fine to have it be a slow start. It's not a complaint. I think the ultimate magic trick of this movie are, wait, we haven't said the mini series. The films are on Robertson Mac. It's called Podcast Away.

[00:10:16] Today we're talking about a little movie called Back to the Future. This happens, I wouldn't even say once a mini series. I would say it happens maybe once or twice a year period where we cover a movie that is so big.

[00:10:28] It's kind of daunting to actually record the episode on it. Yeah, I would say with all kindness to these masterful movies, they are actually usually not our best episodes because right. How do you even talk about a movie everyone's talked about?

[00:10:44] But it's a great one because we're going to mostly say that it's very good and very successful. Well, I got a lot of stuff to say. I've been doing research for weeks, months. I know, I've been doing research.

[00:10:55] Griffin's been all in on Back to the Future, even though we did episodes on Titanic, The Matrix. There's some other big ones we've done, Griffin, that are on this kind of level. Fury Road, I've put in that etcher on it because it's so much more recent.

[00:11:08] It's easier to tackle. Under Siege Dark Territory. Under Siege Dark Territory. Basically every Christopher Nolan movie. Dark Knight, I put in that Territory. If we're talking Top Top Tier, Dark Knight, I put in that Territory. Robocop, I put in that Territory. Yes. Silence of the Lambs.

[00:11:27] Silence of the Lambs. Maybe the Incredibles. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe that's not even quite there. Maybe like Tim Burton's Batman, right? You know, right? Right? Tim Burton, there's like the couple there that are up there.

[00:11:44] It is that thing of movies that were blockbusters, critically adored and have aged only better and have so thoroughly seeped into the popular culture. Right. Right, but just like touch everything of our modern world.

[00:12:01] Like we very much live in a post back to the future America in the way that I think applies to all the other movies we just listed. But what was the thing I was about to say?

[00:12:13] Oh, I think David Rees, the great David Rees, creator of Dicktown, which everyone should watch on Hulu, co-creator of Dicktown with John Hodgman, our other dear friend, promoting Dicktown. Dicktown's a good show. Everyone watch Dicktown. It is a great show. It's so fucking funny and it's on Hulu.

[00:12:27] You can just watch it. And I'm in an episode. You are in an episode. Pretty cool. Have you seen, have you watched my episode yet? I haven't. So that even, I haven't gotten to it yet. So that shows how much I like this show.

[00:12:41] I haven't even gotten to the Griffin episode yet and I love it. And already it's hot. Yeah. No, I kind of torpedoed the show, but... Yeah, okay. All right. All right. Great until... David Rees said on our podcast, the thing that we've gone back to a lot,

[00:12:57] that all great movies are either puzzles or dreams, right? Mm-hmm. It's our spirited away episode if you want to hear that. Right. And the addendum I'd like to put on that, it's not... I'm not refuting that.

[00:13:12] I'm adding a sort of layer onto it, which is I think a lot of the best puzzle movies are constructed like magic tricks, right? Yes. You're talking about this kind of movie where there is a... Jeez, what's the prestige? Right.

[00:13:32] Give me the three stages of the prestige because I forgot them. Look, it's the exact same thing. I want to do the prestige structure and I forgot to look it up and I'm not going

[00:13:40] to remember it, but I feel like the thing this movie does that a lot of good puzzle movies do is they solve the puzzle right in front of you and make you not pay attention to the fact that they're doing that. The pledge, the turn, and the prestige.

[00:13:54] That's what it is. I had to Google it because it was driving me crazy, but that's exactly it. Right. Yes, no, of course not every puzzle movie is a mystery movie with a secret inside that you need to think about.

[00:14:08] Obviously maybe that's sort of the appeal of a Christopher Nolan movie or whatever, but like, you know, no, of course, I feel like if we're doing broad puzzles or dreams, puzzle movies are what you're talking about. These very elaborately satisfying machines that are beautifully

[00:14:25] constructed and come together really well. But this is that territory of we're going to do the puzzle for you. Look, we're not going to make you solve the puzzle by and large, but we're going to somehow distract you from the fact that we're doing a puzzle.

[00:14:41] We're going to get your eye off the ball in that sort of prestige way of like, pay attention to the wrong thing, you know? Yes, and it might be with great characters that you enjoy spending time with. So that's what I was going to say.

[00:14:56] Doc Brown appears on screen 20 minutes into this movie. It takes 20 minutes, and then there's essentially 10 minutes between when Doc Brown appears and when Marty goes through time, right? Yeah, that's the first half hour of this film that is just a hair under two hours.

[00:15:12] I think the genius of this movie and the thing that just shows how fucking sharp Gale and Zemeckis were at this point is that first 20 minutes are pretty leisurely placed. I'd say the next 10 minutes when Doc Brown enters, you have the DeLorean,

[00:15:28] you have the terrorists, all that sort of stuff. It's like clearly throttling into a new year, but at that point you don't really know what the movie is, right? If you're pretending you're watching it going in blind,

[00:15:39] I'm trying to remember how I watched it for the first time. And then the 30 minute mark is really where the movie starts to like reveal itself. I think what is so impressive about this movie is you accept the first 20 minutes

[00:15:52] which don't feel on their face like they're tight because they just feel like you're watching any 80s teen movie. It's characterization, it's a cool guy, it's good songs. He's in the band, his parents are kind of annoying, his siblings are these sort of silly characters.

[00:16:10] Must have his weekend with Jennifer. His best friend is of course an aged scientist. It's mostly normal stuff. I agree with you on this. The brilliance of the movie is that every single thing that happens

[00:16:25] in those first 20 minutes is invisible setup for something that comes back into play. That's why of course it's not like I'm like, back to the future, could tighten it up a little bit. You're totally right.

[00:16:38] I'm more just wonder if I plop a 10 year old in front of this movie now, are they kind of like... And I'm not trying to rant about the young people and how they're all whatever, have no attention span.

[00:16:51] But are they kind of just non-plus by this very kind of like sort of like you're saying, like apart from him being in front of Doc Brown, which is wild, everything else is very cookie cutter. It's like he's in school and his parents are hassling him. They're boring.

[00:17:05] You know what I mean? Like this steak seemed pretty low. Well, his parents suck. Those are the steaks, I guess. Right. I'd offer two rebuttals to that. One, I think I saw this right about at 10. So obviously you're not like these youths with their TikToks.

[00:17:21] I'm a movie nerd and there's been 21 years since then. Yes, absolutely. You know about these TikToks that they're God, the teens in their TikToks. But here are the two actual rebuttals I would offer. One, Marty McFly is super fucking cool and he's very much a 10 year old's conception

[00:17:37] of what you want to be as a teenager. I mean, I do agree with that. He's really cool. Ben, please weigh in also. He has a skateboard. He has a cool orange jacket. He has a skateboard. He has an awesome vest. He just like also has like...

[00:17:51] He has like high tops and jeans and plays at the arm. Right, but also his attitude where it's like he's not totally like a bad guy, but he's also not like uptight at all. Thank you. Like that always resonated with me. They hit such a sweet spot.

[00:18:06] Yeah, he's like that high school guy where everyone would be friends with him. Maybe he's not in any particular social group, but it's like, yeah, Marty, he's cool. But he would also still smoke a sig in the boys' bathroom. Well now you're projecting. Oh, sorry.

[00:18:21] I think that's the line they hit. I mean, obviously we'll talk about the coup of Fox in this movie, which is like the key to everything. But I think even as the character is written, the fact that he's not prom king cool

[00:18:36] and the fact that he does seem to exist in his own sphere, but also I've been like trying to watch all of the Simpsons and the thing that I've been struck by, especially rewatching the early seasons,

[00:18:49] is I think they're so smart about not making Bart too high status in a way that is similar to Marty, where it's like neither of them, although they're popular and they're well liked and they have skateboards and they're objectively cool to a child.

[00:19:04] They both like deal with bullies. They both have frustrations. They're not like everything doesn't roll off their backs. And in that way, I think the pure charisma of the first 20 minutes combined with the coolness of the skateboarding, the music, all that sort of stuff.

[00:19:21] I mean, he hangs on the back of a dang car and gets around. That's like a man. Yeah, I mean, obviously that is cool. I think that's so cool to kids. And then I think you get to shit like him being frustrated with his dad, the principal,

[00:19:37] telling him he's never going to mount to anything. I think that stuff that still you plop any eight-year-old in front of it and they don't understand why they suddenly feel such a connection to that guy. I think you're right.

[00:19:49] It's broad, especially like the principal where you're like now, you're like, that's so funny that the principal just berates him in the hallway for like nothing but what he's late. Okay. The principal is like, you know what? You write it off. That's it.

[00:20:04] You're not going to do fucking anything for the rest of your life. But it's this other thing. I mean, Gail and Zemek has talked about this so much, but Marty is such a reactive character. Like he makes active choices and he pushes the story forward,

[00:20:19] but the crux of the movie is Doc Brown figuring out time travel and getting his parents together as a couple. He's helping to facilitate both of those things, but the big payoffs you're looking for in the movie aren't really things to do with him as directly.

[00:20:35] You know, obviously he'll disappear from the photo if this doesn't get solved. He needs to help both of these people get to their end points. But they're the ones who have the big aesthetic wins in the movie. Yes, you're right.

[00:20:48] He is or whatever time is moving through him in a way. Like he is not like the stakes are somewhat passive in a way that would seem odd to whatever, a Hollywood pitch meeting, right? Where it's like, well, why do I care about Marty? Like what?

[00:21:05] Like his mom wants to kiss him? Like that's all... That's like, you know, like what does he want? What does Marty want? And it's kind of like apart from to not be a... You're right. You're right. You're right. I'm sorry. I'm just repeating what you're saying.

[00:21:18] No, there's so much stuff about the construction of the screenplay that sort of defies logic and in many ways goes against how screenplays are taught. I feel like it's so often so binary when you get into like save the cat shit and like the rules of stuff.

[00:21:34] And Galen Zemeckis very much had this process where they like wrote shit on note cards and they went like, what's the overall theme of this movie? Like what is the number one thing we're trying to say? Circle that a thousand times.

[00:21:47] Make sure everything helps feed into that, right? But then they would just go like, what are things that would be cool to happen in this movie? And they just would come up with things they would like to see in a film

[00:22:00] in this sort of like, why not make every scene as good as it could be principal? But then what they would do is they do the legwork. So they go, okay, if we like the idea, it would be funny if Marty is the one

[00:22:12] who creates rock and roll. Potentially a little bit racist, but also funny. I mean, sure, right. We'll discuss that choice later. We'll discuss that. At the time, very cool. Right. Let's put that note card on the board, but now we have a commitment to ourselves

[00:22:27] to seed that throughout the entire film. And so I feel like they're very practical in how they plot things, because they come up with the exciting things they would like to earn by the end of the movie and then they really work to make sure

[00:22:42] those things have been laid out properly. And it's a better way in many senses of writing a sort of like commercial populist film than I think the linear A to B that a lot of people do. That's very interesting. It's also the only way to explain a movie

[00:23:04] where the core concept, and again, like guys, go look, we're talking about a movie that's really famous. Go listen to the Mulaney bit about Back to the Future. Obviously everyone has had their sport with Back to the Future, but the core concept of Back to the Future

[00:23:18] is like what if you went back in time and learned that your mom was horny? Like that is the thing that Zemeckis hits on when him and Bob Gailer, they're like what? Home in Missouri, home in St. Louis, looking at their old yearbooks and they're like,

[00:23:34] oh, you know, what if, and Zemeckis is like, what if your mom was like, oh, I never kissed anyone in high school and she was lying and you found that out by going back in time. I think that's a brilliant idea for a movie to be clear.

[00:23:47] It's just a strange one for a blockbuster. That's all. Yes, that's the fascinating thing about this movie and it falls into the same category for me as like Big, which I feel like I've talked about, I rewatched a year or so ago.

[00:24:01] A similarly Edipole 80s movie about American hornyness. And it's like everyone's done stand-up routines about it. Everyone's done the memes about it. If you explain the events of that movie to someone, it sounds demented. That person should be put in jail. That person should be in court-martialed.

[00:24:20] But the magic trick of that movie is it is so intelligently written, is directed with such wit, the performances are so on point that the movie, much like a magic trick, does a good job of only making sure you only focus

[00:24:34] on the things it wants you to focus on at any given point in time. Certainly. It does not want you to think too hard. Right. And it is very easy for like, Malay need to do an excellent stand-up bit

[00:24:47] on how fucked up the premise of Back to the Future is. The thing that's incredible about Back to the Future is, that's not subtextual. That is the premise of the movie and while you're watching it, you're not processing how fucked up it is.

[00:25:01] Certainly not when I was a kid. Like now I watch this movie and I'm like, oh right, this is a movie, like Zemeckis is like making a movie for Reaganites being like, the 50s were seedy, America has always been seedy.

[00:25:16] Like, you know, it's not like we didn't just invent sex 20 years ago. All of this was going on in your nice picture perfect cookie cutter, like leave it to beaver land. And like if you went back in time, that's what you'd be confronted with.

[00:25:31] And I love that but when I'm a kid, I'm definitely more just like, oh no, Marty's got to get the timeline back in order. I don't know, like when you're a kid, you're very into that whole sort of balancing act

[00:25:43] of like, well this needs to happen for this needs, you know, right? Like you're just very invested in that. What some would call the rules. Sure, love the rules. This was not a pivotal movie for me as a kid.

[00:25:56] I saw it as a kid multiple times and I liked it. But it's not like a movie I owned and watched over and over and over again, like whatever, some of these big things. Like I am positive on this movie and always have it.

[00:26:09] I just feel like it's maybe more foundational for some people. I don't know, was it for you? Absolutely, this is humongous for me. This is like one of my favorite franchises and this is certainly one of the movies that felt like

[00:26:22] an explosion for me when I finally watched it. Why was that? I don't remember what finally got me to watch it but I feel like a lot of movies of this era of the 80s and 90s in particular,

[00:26:36] my exposure to it was all the sort of ancillary stuff first. So I knew the basic iconography. I knew it's a skateboarding kid and a mad scientist. I probably had watched many episodes of the animated series before I saw the movie

[00:26:49] and so I was just like, I don't know, it's some time travel thing. Like the animated series is very much... They have time travel adventures. They go back and see dinosaurs or whatever. I've seen that show. I don't remember it at all but I remember watching it.

[00:27:01] It's fun. I like it. I've been re-watching it but it's like every episode. I'm trying to be thorough, David. Of course, yes, very thorough. And I got the box set. This is, yes, this is being thorough. That's what I'm doing here.

[00:27:14] You got the box set for the animated show? Well, they're about to come out with the 4K box set which has a lot of new added stuff but I have the 2010 box set which I think was the... or the 2015 box set was the 30th anniversary

[00:27:32] and it comes in a box that looks like the flux capacitor and it has all the movies and it has the animated series. So I've had the animated series for all these years and I just haven't been watching it. So I was trying to re-watch it

[00:27:44] because I knew that was my exposure to this at first which is very much like, right, as you said, it almost feels more like wishbone where it's like every episode is themed around a time period. It's like where are they going now?

[00:27:57] And it's so much about Jules and Verne, Doc Brown's kids and the dog, like Einstein's a big part of it. Oh, I forgot that there's the kids. Yes, of course, because they were like... Kids are like... They're like, how to be little kids

[00:28:10] because it's a Saturday morning cartoon. Marty's kind of like their cool uncle. Doc Brown is like their frazzled dad and every episode is pretty much the kids fuck up and put them in a different time period and Marty and Doc have to untangle it

[00:28:24] and Biff remains this sort of like mythic bully figure where there's always a Biff equivalent in every timeline they go to. Every timeline's like you go to ancient Rome and there's whatever an evil Biff senator. There's truly like a dinosaur Biff

[00:28:41] and like Lord Biff and all this sort of shit. But I feel like that was my exposure and then it was one of those like video store movies for me where you have this like amazing Drew Streuths and poster

[00:28:52] and as a kid, I loved the symmetry of the three boxes all having the same posing but with like one, two, three people and different outfits and whatever. And I still just thought like the premise of this movie is these people just travel through time

[00:29:07] they just go to crazy different time periods. I don't remember what finally got me to watch it but I feel like my dad was like have you ever seen back to the future? You would like that. So I finally rented it and it just felt like atomic bomb.

[00:29:20] This movie is so satisfying, it's so exciting. I love these characters. I love the world. I love the sort of subtle mythology that's built into it and it was like a thing where the next two weekends I rented back to the future two and three

[00:29:35] and it felt like I spent the next week at school waiting to see two. You know, it was like the thing that got me through that next week of school as if it were like a television series

[00:29:47] is like oh my god I can't believe I get to watch two more of these and see how they go. Loved both and just have seen them a billion times. I feel like they were one of the first franchises that I got really deeply into

[00:30:02] and want to read everything I could about it. But you go like why does this appeal to kids so much? And I do think it is tapping on very elemental things. I mean if we're going to talk about the origin of this movie

[00:30:19] Gale and Zemeckis loved time travel. Nerds. And also loved like futurism and this movie was essentially like two different strains that ended up meeting. The first strain is that, right? And they were like what we would love to do is make a movie

[00:30:40] that in reality sounds a lot like what Brad Bird eventually did with Tomorrowland which is I want to make a movie about the way the future was predicted in the world's fairs of the 40s and why we didn't get that future and what happened to that future.

[00:30:55] So that was the original idea and I believe they had a title that was called Doc Brown's Fontabulous Time Machine or something. Sounds great. They had Doc Brown as a character which makes sense because that's the only way you end up with Doc Brown in this movie

[00:31:10] is they already got into the idea of like this like manic electric mad scientist sort of on the verge of mania. So they have that and they never come up with an actual story for that movie. They know they like time travel,

[00:31:26] they've talked about their theories of time travel and how they would use time travel on a story. They have the stem of this Doc Brown character and they have the idea of dealing with alternate futures we didn't get and things like that

[00:31:37] but they never come up with a narrative or an emotional hook for that movie. So that's put on a shelf. Then they do use cars and after they finish filming use cars as you said Bob Gale goes home to visit his parents,

[00:31:51] goes to the attic, finds his dad's yearbook and he sees that his dad was the class president and Gale although I don't think he was as cool as Marty McFly was very much like an anti-authority dude in high school and he said that he started

[00:32:06] a group in high school to eliminate student government. Like his entire life was he was like this low scale high school political radical who thought student government should be abolished. I mean and also it should be noted Gale grew up

[00:32:22] in the 60s not the 50s like this movie set in the 50s because it makes sense for it to be set in the 50s like Marty's parents would have grew up right but like but Gale was born in the 50s

[00:32:32] like so like it makes more sense that you know by the 60s an anti-establishment teen would be a little more you know like yeah right. Gale and Zemeckis are ultimate boomers, they're born in the 50s but they come of age in the 60s

[00:32:45] but I do think that makes them realize the fulcrum point of and it's the reason why this movie can never be remade, why you cannot transpose it onto a modern day setting because it's the fulcrum point of how much American culture changes in the 60s and the 70s

[00:33:05] that the 80s are almost unrecognizable to how the 50s look and from there on out the changes tend to be a little more surfacing but there's a real cultural shift there which you also tie to the fact that the 50s are like the birth of the American teenager

[00:33:23] you know of like youth culture, of the teen consumer. You're rock around the clock type you know blackboard jungle 50s kid. Right so it's just like the times match up so perfectly it will never be that sort of meaningful again but you go

[00:33:43] here are two guys born in the early 50s so they're small children or they're born the mid 50s or whatever but like they come of age in the 60s, they know their parents were coming of age roughly in the 40s or 50s

[00:33:55] like they have this understanding of that and Gale's looking at this yearbook and he has the breakthrough notion which is if I was in high school the same time as my father would I even be friends with him so that's the idea he takes back

[00:34:10] to Zemeckis. The mom stuff comes in a little bit later I believe the mom stuff is what Zemeckis brings to it that is Zemeckis' concept They start boiling on that and he said right what if your mom turned out after preaching all these sort of values to you

[00:34:26] You went back in time and your mom was not the goody two shoes she claimed she was they take those two ideas bring them to Columbia and Columbia is like right in a script like you know like obviously it's not like you have a go picture

[00:34:39] but like whatever they make a deal Well they merge it with the time travel thing because when they have that idea they go how do you get to someone being the same age as their parents

[00:34:48] and they said we don't want to do that thing where they conk their head and they wake up and they're in the 50s We don't want to all be a dream Right, right Because I also feel like that was somewhat of a radical idea

[00:35:01] you have a lot of movies like Peggy Sue got married which I know comes out after this But things like that with different time periods Excuse me, different realities and all that sort of stuff Now you may know this, I'm sure you know this better than I

[00:35:15] but wasn't the original idea of the time travel a fridge in the Nevada like atomic site and that must be where that's being used in Crystal Skull I mean it's not a great like them, it's too weird for that to be parallel David this is a Robocop episode

[00:35:30] there's a reason we don't have a guess we're getting to all of this but yes 100% Gale says that that is 100% from their draft and I'm inclined to believe him Spielberg was obviously a producer on this you can see on the bluries at least the most

[00:35:43] recent set I have I don't know if the newer set will have it as well they have the storyboarded sequence of the test site and it is so similar it is so similar I absolutely believe that whole sequence in Crystal Skull

[00:35:59] is so back to the future because it's mocking the 50s and all that yeah so it makes sense the nuclear family if you will I will get to that in a moment I do think the idea that it was oh semi-hard sci-fi is how we

[00:36:15] execute this concept which is on its face kind of a fable right the thing that none of us ever get to do be the same age as our parents to merge that with sci-fi and not sort of silly space opera sci-fi but actual notions

[00:36:33] of how the space time continuum works even if theorists dispute the science it's very broad yeah yeah but they're building their own reality of how it could work here it's not just something they're sort of like it's a hot tub right

[00:36:47] it's close to a hot dog but yes okay I mean flux capacitor you know like they have their language for it but it doesn't I know what you're saying it's not him it's not a dream it's not an imaginary story or what I you know

[00:36:59] and that it's so much about the way the past impacts the future and the effects of those two timelines and all that sort of stuff the cause and effect even though a lot theorist don't think that is how things would actually work

[00:37:11] and that it's maybe closer to the endgame theory it is telling that endgame has to go out of its way to say this isn't back to the future because back to the future has become sort of the definitive way that people think about

[00:37:23] the sound of thunder-esque cause and effect of time travel right yeah they merge those two ideas they have Doc Brown in the back pocket and that's how you end up with a movie in which the coolest skateboarding rock and roll

[00:37:38] playing dude in high school is best friends with a mad old scientist who burned down his family mansion for insurance money doesn't make any sense and the movie doesn't even try to explain it do you know what their justification is

[00:37:54] well what's their justification he has the big amp he has the what the big amp it's got a big oh yeah I want to use to play guitar real loud you know I will say I was watching this before key who had never seen this movie

[00:38:10] wow it's not surprising you know her David David David he's a come on Sporky as we know is an animate Spork created only a few years ago so of course for key hadn't seen that isn't what I was leaning into the

[00:38:27] bit that isn't what I was going to correct what were you gonna correct I wasn't going to correct anything I was just going to say you're telling me that you showed Sporky back to the future for the first time last night

[00:38:39] it wasn't last night but very recently yes now that's the power of love and I will say the power of love I kind of was sort of doing the thing where like a calm sort of trying to get out like look I know it's

[00:38:56] it's silly like he's friends with a mad scientist who's old like I know it's silly and she was like yeah but he hates his dad like isn't Doc Brown just like his you know it's like a dad figure

[00:39:07] he's in search of dad figures and I was like you're right I mean that's that's not and again the movie doesn't make really a lot of effort to vocalize that but yes like that's a very easy way

[00:39:18] to just sort of see that like yeah his Marty's dad is the dangest ask fucking freak that there is and Marty can barely stand to look at him so yeah like Doc Brown you know is sort of this exciting and weird and

[00:39:34] sort of enter you know energetic figure and like that's more fun for Marty to be around I think there's another factor too which is it's what we're talking about the precision in which Marty is characterized as much as it doesn't feel like it's a big

[00:39:49] choice that he is not the prom king that we don't see him hanging out with a lot of friends that he very much is an individualist and you have to imagine that as much as it's an odd pairing Marty would have more respect for the like reclusive

[00:40:08] rebel old man scientist who's playing by his own rules in the town and like a making his own life you know that this guy is just sort of like I'm master of my own domain I do whatever the fuck I want I build whatever the fuck I want

[00:40:23] no one tells me what to do that that's appealing to Marty as this vague sort of like counter authority figure but to hear Gail and Zemeckis talk about it they're like well we knew we had to come up with an explanation

[00:40:39] for why Marty hangs out with Doc Brown and then we finally hit upon it it's that he has the biggest guitar amp in town so that's why Marty goes over there it is so funny that opening that you know is the whole all the machinery

[00:40:52] and all that that is setting up the amp what's so funny they describe it as if like and then we figured it out it was perfect and it's like no weirdly the movie works in spite of that

[00:41:02] like as you're saying we just came up with two really good explanations for why Marty is friends with Doc even though on its face it's ridiculous and they're like no no no it's the amp thing in this way that I want to keep getting back to this

[00:41:15] this is one of those movies that's kind of a miracle because even though I do think these guys were very skilled and the people they surrounded themselves with are very skilled there are so many sliding doors moments you hear about with this film where it almost was disastrous

[00:41:29] you know where they just somehow by circumstance looked into the better of two options over and over and over again and the production of this movie was very weird for those reasons it was the other thing I think we should acknowledge

[00:41:45] about the development this year I'm sure you have a million things you want to acknowledge but that all point out is like at the time this movie is almost tame for a teen movie in a lot of ways not for a family adventure movie

[00:41:58] but for a movie about teens because the 80s is when the sexy teen movie becomes like you know that when it's invented and porkies and rich one high and like you know like movies with sex in them explicit sex in them are all you know all the rage

[00:42:14] so it wasn't Columbia kind of like this thing is to tame right yeah right so they Gail has the breakthrough brings it to Zemeckis Zemeckis adds the mom element they combine it with the time travel stuff they go and pitch it to Columbia

[00:42:29] because their narrative had been obviously Spielberg is the one who gets them set up with movies he produces their movies he directs their 1941 script and those were three strikes in a row all three of those things had bombed

[00:42:42] and at this point it's looking like why did Spielberg bet the farm on these kids they're not going anywhere but with I want to hold your hand which I believe was universal right they make that it bombs but the head of universal calls up Zemeckis the following day

[00:43:02] and says I just want you to know I watched that movie with my grandchildren you've made a great film and this might have bombed and it's not getting noticed that's our fault it's not your fault you're gonna have a big career ahead of you

[00:43:13] and I would be honored to keep making films with you so that gives him the juice to start writing used cars which then ultimately universal passes on so but the fact that people want to stay in business with him gets the screenplay done

[00:43:27] where eventually they then go and set it up at Columbia and then the same thing happens again the movie comes out it bombs but the head of Columbia calls him up and goes we miss handle this this is your our fault you made a great movie

[00:43:38] and there's a bigger thing at play which is your career at large and I know you're a good filmmaker and I want to keep making movies with you so once again he feels like he has that support they have the idea they go and pitch it to Columbia

[00:43:50] they go great write it they write the screenplay they do a couple drafts they bring it back and just as you said they go look this is good but this absolutely is out of vogue with the time with the moments too tame not adult enough essentially right

[00:44:06] right now I want to hold your hand is pretty tame used cars is one of only two R rated movies that Zemeckis has ever made yeah you use cars is kind of dirty and kind of a juvenile way

[00:44:16] and pointedly I feel like the stuff that ages the worst in used cars the stuff that feels like him trying to play the porkies game the scene where they rip the woman's top off and the commercial

[00:44:27] all that crap you're like this feels forced and kind of just junky 80s sexy comedy stuff yeah but you read the reviews for used cars at the time and the people who are critical of it are like this movie is way too dark it's way too anarchic

[00:44:44] like people are like too far too far too far so I feel like at this point Zemeckis and Gail are like that's not our zone we can't out porkies porkies let's do what we do they bring the script in

[00:44:55] head of Columbia goes look it's a teen movie and it's not Ryebald there's not really a market for this I'm sorry we can't really green like this but the fact that Columbia had bet on him allows the script to get to that point

[00:45:09] right it means it came into fruition so now they go and pitch it to every studio multiple times he says he still has every rejection letter he got 40 of them they pitch it to everywhere but Disney first

[00:45:22] oh okay I mean because I know Disney was like the mom thing is no good we can't Disney's the final straw right Disney's the first they pitch it to everyone everyone says to tame to tame to tame this isn't how teen movies work then someone says to him

[00:45:37] you should pitch it to Disney if everyone's saying it's to tame they went oh you're right they weren't even thinking of that they go to Disney Disney goes are you fucking kidding me he's gonna fuck his mom get out of here we're not right

[00:45:49] family company go Mickey Mouse spits on his shoes goes fuck you goofy goes oh yeah close the door behind you on the way out right so they're just like why were they allowed to run the company

[00:46:03] it's insane and don't look like so everyone else was like to tame Disney was like fucking perverted nastiest movie we've ever read and he's just like I guess this thing can never get made sure while they're in that point when they're just stuck at a standstill

[00:46:23] is when Spielberg says I'll produce the screenplay for you and Zemeckis says as we talked about our Manson stone episode I can't let you do that right now I've made three movies essentially they all were shepherded by you all three bombed

[00:46:38] people think it's nepotism that I'm just your friend it was just two movies not romancing the snow but yes like use cars and I want to see 41 if sure right yeah exactly but right but he's essentially like if I make this movie with your name on it

[00:46:54] and it doesn't work I'm done not only will my reputation be over but it's so bad for you and also I'll never be able to stand on my own two feet I'll just look like the guy who gets movies

[00:47:05] made because his body is the most successful director in the world he does the I'll make the next good script that comes in my mailbox which eventually ends in the stone and he produces it

[00:47:16] and it's a big hit so then they go back and say you know who's the one person who actually believed in this movie from the get go Spielberg was the one who always loved it wanted to make it

[00:47:29] what's changed in that period of time is now Spielberg has set up Amblin at the earlier point in time and blend did not exist back to the future is the first and blend movie ever it is the first Spielberg producing a non Spielberg film with his own company

[00:47:46] so he's got the hot hand he's built this new thing ever wants to be in Spielberg business they go back to universal who were the people who liked it originally back back back in the day and they go like sure but here are the stipulations will do

[00:48:02] it with Spielberg we want to be a summer movie which means you need to start filming like immediately immediately immediately immediately like I feel like this movie was green lit nine months before it ended up getting released if even that

[00:48:16] much so it's on expedited fast track will make this film because it's low budget because you have Spielberg because romancing the stone was a hit but it has to come out in the summer because that's when it appeals to kids so

[00:48:27] that's where they originally get bone what I just there's one thing I have to tell you that you that you will like and you may be read that's that universal got the rights from Columbia which did still own the movie by trading them the rights

[00:48:45] to double indemnity because Columbia was making big trouble the Cassavetes movie that is so similar to double indemnity that they needed permission like they needed like double indemnity rights to release it and so universal was like will flip you

[00:49:04] the license if you give us back to the future and that is just a weird we I just feel like you love that kind of Hollywood horse trading crap like you know it's so so at some point

[00:49:16] I'm going to tell the chappy deal on this podcast deal we have to talk about not right now this this episode has to be a master builder style episode but I want to hype up that some

[00:49:28] day the chappy deal will be told on this podcast and I'll tell it and you won't know what story I'm telling until you get to the end and then you'll go oh my god it was the chappy deal

[00:49:38] all along I'm just calling my shop right now sounds great that's incredible so universal gives them a go picture a thing I did not realize is a really large chunk of this movie was financed through what should we call it product placement

[00:49:54] they're obviously like big notable things where it's like acknowledged in the dialogue or whatever but Gail has commentary with Neil Cant and the producer and like everything that anyone touches there like that was product placement that was product placement sure sure that was the main reason I think

[00:50:16] universal agreed to make the movie was because a the hook of oh it's 50s to 80s means that legacy companies that have existed for over 30 years can have the coolness of existing in two different time periods you know and getting spotlight

[00:50:31] in that way and be that Marty's a cool kid so his sunglasses are sponsorship you know and everything he wears is sponsorship all this sort of stuff I think ironically the things that are called out in the dialogue are less product placement

[00:50:46] it's more like the Exxon mobile station things like that sure Pepsi what have you but so Pepsi free Pepsi free Pepsi free Pepsi free so they're a go picture but it has to be started very soon their first choice no question is Michael

[00:51:07] J. Fox it's you know you got Spielberg you have Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall who are now running Ambulan for him and then Gail and Zemeckis or the main creative team setting this movie up when people try to act like Kathleen Kennedy is some

[00:51:23] a group they picked off the streets to run Star Wars who has no idea what she's doing I find nothing more infuriating you can dislike what she's done with Star Wars but her fucking track record for 30 years leading up to that point is not

[00:51:35] a mistake or an accident but they're like Michael J. Fox at this point family ties has been on for like a season or two it's a big but it hasn't gone supernova I think Michael J. Fox said that like

[00:51:50] when they were filming this movie it was right after or right during the season where they got moved after the Cosby show and that's when they exploded that's when it became huge yes there was also some issue of Meredith Baxter might have been a

[00:52:06] maternity leave something like they could not spare him right David what I'm gonna outline all this for you so my god okay okay they go we want Michael J. Fox they go to Gary Goldman show runner creator of family ties Meredith Baxter Berger had just had

[00:52:26] Gary Goldberg sorry I'm sorry Gary Goldberg I mean I'm sorry so eventually they go to Gary Goldberg Michael J. Fox in Spin City an incredible show yes go on yes I feel like that was more him going to Goldberg

[00:52:40] and being like can I please do another sitcom I want to do TV again like they develop that together yeah yeah but they're like we know he's on a TV show is there any way we could get him

[00:52:52] and Goldberg is like Meredith Baxter Bernie just got off of maternity leave it threw off the whole show I can't lose another cast member we just got her back like the show is finally just back on rails again Fox had used the maternity leave

[00:53:08] to do Teen Wolf which I think was very much him being like I want to be in a movie I finally become something of a leasing man I want to be an a movie and he's like

[00:53:20] I kind of immediately regretted it and when I was on set filming Teen Wolf I remember the high school we were filming at some location scouts came by and said they were scouting for a Steven Spielberg movie

[00:53:32] that Crispin Glover was going to be in and I had the feeling of Jesus Christ I wish I could be in a Steven Spielberg not in fucking Teen Wolf right why did I waste my one break on this crap

[00:53:44] right because the two things were essentially going to be like back to back right but so he doesn't even know that they offered him back to the future because Goldberg just shuts it down and is like I'm sorry they go they cast they audition everybody every young

[00:54:00] actor I believe this new depth and stiller mmm this new 4k set that's about to come out I believe has a lot of those auditions on it for the first time like the other soon to be leading man who

[00:54:16] auditioned for Marty McFly the guy they end up casting infamously is Eric Stoltz and by in large I think they cast him because of his similarity to Michael J Fox they pretty much say we were so set on Michael J Fox that when

[00:54:32] we couldn't get him and we're so frustrated we said who's a guy who kind of looks like Michael J Fox kind of has a similar voice feels like he might be able to do the Michael J Fox then this is the thing because obviously this is the most

[00:54:44] notorious recasting ever right no competition right no competition and Ben did you know this that Eric Stoltz like played the role of Marty McFly for like weeks I mean five weeks about it yeah yeah I feel like

[00:54:56] this came up maybe off Mike but I feel like I remember Alex Ross Perry talking about this right right oh yes yes because he's buddies with Eric Stoltz who of course has big Ben Haasley energy yes and will eventually play me in my biopic totally

[00:55:12] old Ben yes of course old Ben Stoltz I feel like you know so it's sort of like there's always been the question of like well what was he doing wrong like why have we never seen this like what was the like big product how

[00:55:30] could they recast him like weeks into a movie that was like there's always been this mythos of like he must have been doing something terrible or crazy or unusual but I feel like it's what you're saying

[00:55:42] is like they're just looking at him and being like I wish he was Michael J. Fox though like they say like oh he was giving this very dramatic performance it wasn't light enough

[00:55:50] and like he was very good but it just wasn't fitting the movie and I buy that but I just also feel like they had this thing in their head that you're saying where they're like they just wanted fucking Michael J. Fox

[00:56:02] I think that's definitely like the main thing and the fact that they cast him it's like when you start dating someone after a bad breakup who kind of reminds you of your ex and it doesn't help matters you'd be better off trying to date someone who's dramatically different

[00:56:18] rather than someone you're attracted to because they kind of have the same face which is only going to make you long more and more for the person who dumped you I think that's a big factor I do also believe that the difference between Fox and Stoltz is

[00:56:38] like you know Fox was a child star in Canada he did light entertainment and then he moves to sitcoms and you kind of need someone with sitcom energy in their back pocket to make this movie work I think Stoltz was more of a serious actor

[00:56:54] in terms of his development right he was more of like a theater dude a real like drama school dude I believe and I think it is that like it's the magic trick element of the movie

[00:57:10] that you need a champagne performer that you need someone like Michael J. Fox who's just like this I understand that this doesn't really make sense but I also understand what I need to do in order to make this scene work and perhaps an actor

[00:57:26] who had a little bit more of an obsessive tendency towards like I have to find the dramatic truth in this scene would do that at the sake of landing jokes because Zemeckis and Gale always talk about their films their screenplays don't really

[00:57:42] have joke jokes the comedy comes from characters playing situations very very straight but you also have to be aware of where the laugh should be you have to time that properly and put the right emphasis on everything which I just think is a muscle developed

[00:57:58] by a dude doing a sitcom in front of a live studio audience over and over and over again you know I think that's a huge difference and I think it is just like the as you said that they had Fox in their heads

[00:58:14] and I also think there's something about the fact that Fox is so little and his voice is so high pitched like Stoltz is five inches taller than him and like two pitches lower are you telling me you built a time machine Stoltz is like a cool motherfucker

[00:58:34] like as much as Stoltz two conventionally cool he doesn't have the mild low status thing that Marty always has from being so small he had just been in mask where obviously he has this crazy makeup on so it's you know that's helping him be

[00:58:50] like seem like an outsider obviously mask his his make good for back to the future and already filmed it and they already seen it why they cast him it was not yet out it comes out

[00:59:06] a few months it comes out like March of 85 like you know a few months before back to the future but like obviously in that he's playing a underdog and he's good in mask but I do

[00:59:18] think of Eric Stoltz more as like Eric Stoltz and kicking and screaming or whatever like the kind of sly guy who's kind of like you know kind of a little cool and low

[00:59:30] key and kind of over you know what I mean like he's great at that he's so good at that he's got a good relaxed he's so good in her smell doing that like you know fucking 40 years later practically

[00:59:42] where whereas like Michael J Fox is working like he's acting he's not going for naturalism but you need that in this movie I mean he's he's a very honest reactor but he understands the pitch of the movie he's in that it needs to be

[00:59:58] some pat a go with what Christopher Lloyd is doing you know and that I do think there's that innate vulnerability that comes from just his size and that also gets back to why kids I think can relate to this movie and like the same way that movies like

[01:00:10] aside from everything else kids like movies in which someone's a lot smaller than everyone else around them. Yeah you're right you're right I think Michael J Fox is kind of a brilliant actor I mean that's not a good take obviously. No. And I really

[01:00:26] like him in the movies where he actually was trying to challenge himself like casualties of war or what I mean like the movies even like bright lights big city and things yeah yes or even Mars attacks where

[01:00:38] he's playing a jerk you know like you know he's playing against his likeability exactly but there it is just also that kind of under a thing of like it is just fucking hard to be this likeable like it's

[01:00:50] I mean maybe it comes natural to some people maybe it comes natural to him but like I was not a family ties person because yeah that's not my I wasn't really alive for most of that but like to think of that

[01:01:02] he was like America's hero playing a little fucking young republican tort like yeah and that was like the hottest sitcom of the 80s and everyone fucking loved Alex Keaton and like he won my grum. Yeah and I grew up watching spin city and I fucking loved spin city

[01:01:18] spin city rules by the way even though probably doesn't probably if I watch it now and be like this is like a fun 90s sitcom but like he kind Fox boss it looks like it's no chance it loaded cast

[01:01:31] insanely rock you're forgetting rock rock you know come on Jennifer is the Zito. That's Zito. Carla Gugino in that that weird first 12 episodes. Yeah great great great show. Yeah I don't know it's just it's hard to sum that up. Yes, no but that's that's a great point.

[01:01:54] I mean there's the famous story that when he was testing for family ties I think the network had said like you know everyone want to hire Michael J Fox who had been this Canadian child actor done a lot

[01:02:05] TV and but like you know Canadian TV children's program and stuff and the executive said he's good but no one will ever buy a lunchbox with that guy's face on it. Like at that point in time it was so much the Kurt Cameron model of

[01:02:22] like if you're putting a young man on the TV show he has to become some sort of heartthrob. And the fact that Fox became such a heartthrob I mean the story is that he like then sent a bunch of the lunchboxes to that guy

[01:02:37] a year later when he became Tartakov. Right Tartakov right exactly. But as you said that the character is so unlikeable so smug so arrogant I mean that's a character who is kind of the opposite of Marty McFly

[01:02:49] in so many ways but it is the fact that like the pure charm is carrying him I don't think as much as certain people are naturally charming I think there is clearly a level of craft at play to understand how you play on screen.

[01:03:04] Here's the story I kept on thinking about while watching this movie last night. It's an anecdote I think about all the time that is such a good distillation of the difference between a movie star and an actor

[01:03:15] not that they're mutually exclusive but the different powers of each one right the different parts of your brain it would take. Ethan Hawke I believe was the first choice for Steve Hiller in Independence Day they send him the script.

[01:03:29] He goes this is unactable there is no way to do this it's impossible this is trash good luck in godspeed to whoever gets the role. A year and a half later he goes to see in a Penn State in theaters

[01:03:44] and when Will Smith punches the alien in the face and says welcome to Earth Ethan Hawke cheers and he goes well that's it like that's the thing I could never do like I'm too much in my head as the serious dramaturgical guy

[01:03:59] that I don't understand that sometimes you just want to do something on screen that looks cool like even if you can't justify why someone would be doing this it's just gonna play and it's that that preternatural sense that I do think

[01:04:14] Smith and Fox have unified from the sense that they were sitcoms performing from live studio audiences understanding the rhythms of Lovian if I do this people will explode. The Ethan Hawke thing is interesting because he is such a self-conscious actor

[01:04:28] in the 90s and I do feel like I mean obviously he never wanted to be what you're talking about right like he clearly just avoided the the kinds of movies you're talking about kind of in but he meant to he wanted

[01:04:41] to he didn't want to do those things but he did eventually flip a switch and become a much more natural actor and I wonder if there was just some he figured it out. But I think Stoltz is very similar to Ethan Hawke.

[01:04:52] I think they come from a similar mindset you know and I think that's the biggest difference and also the fact that they were so similar. So they start filming the movie with Eric Stoltz. Zemeckis said it was like a thing where he knew fundamentally it wasn't right

[01:05:09] they probably knew from D1. He said I knew before we even did. Right, right. I can fix it. It's full of piss and vinegar and I was like I'm such a good director. I'll be able to make him work.

[01:05:19] I'll hire the guy closest to Fox and make it work. They film five entire weeks then that's just it's just crazy. It's to be clear that's a lot of time in a movie a lot of time and this is a big movie but it's not a five weeks.

[01:05:38] Well certainly an indie movie or would not be but like a certainly a small movie would be like a month or six weeks or whatever but like this is obviously a studio film. It's obviously not a cheap film but it's not a it's sort of a mid-budgeted.

[01:05:53] Right, like you know it was I think the original budget was more like 14 million dollars something you know big but not colossal. I think it was 10 but no it was it was budgeted at 14 and ended up costing 19. Oh okay geez.

[01:06:08] It's absolutely a thing that doesn't happen without Spielberg. It's one of these many like sliding doors things where you're like if he hadn't finally relented and let Spielberg produced it he would have been fucked at this point because he takes the five weeks of dailies

[01:06:24] he cuts them together into a rough assembly he calls Spielberg in for a screening and he says I just feel like we're not getting laughs. Like it isn't hitting and without that effervescence without that champagne performance at the center you're not going to buy into the movie.

[01:06:41] I think that's the difference of people spending too much time thinking about wait this entire movie is constructed around him not trying to fuck his mom. Michael J Fox can guide you through that and keep it light.

[01:06:52] Eric Stoltz you probably think about the reality of it too much. So he turns to Spielberg and goes what do you think and Spielberg goes you're absolutely right and he goes to Universal and he's the one guy who has the clout to be able to convince them

[01:07:05] we have to start over. They essentially have to throw away five weeks of filming. There is still a lot of coverage from other actors in the movie that I believe is them playing off of Eric Stoltz.

[01:07:16] His back is in the film at least a little bit or whatever. It's another reason why it's just bananas that this movie works and that it works and harmonizes so well. They try to keep whatever they can but and you look and it's like Stoltz has dark hair

[01:07:32] like Jet Black hair even though he's a redhead. He's got a totally different wardrobe in the footage that's come out. We've never heard his line readings but there's been a lot of footage like MOS that they put into documentaries and stuff.

[01:07:45] Right you can there's images certainly that you can see and stuff right. Yeah his hair is kind of tough D and that sort of Stoltz way he's obviously way taller. He doesn't have the life preserver.

[01:07:57] No he doesn't have their orange thing right exactly and he's more not that this is crucial but he's like Lloyd's height practically. Right. Where is Lloyd Hardin. Yes. Malora Harbour is going to play his girlfriend and they kicked her off because she was too tall. Was cast.

[01:08:13] Was cast. Was cast off of Stoltz who later becomes Jan Levinson Gould on The Office. If you want to talk about how long careers are this was supposed to be like her breakout.

[01:08:22] She never films a day because they were doing the 50 stuff first and they have to call her up and go actually you're not hired for this movie because you're five inches taller than Michael J Fox.

[01:08:33] The other wild thing there is like Claudia Black who ends up playing Jennifer but doesn't do the sequels was their original casting choice. I'm sorry she becomes Claudia Black later through marriage. They cast her originally.

[01:08:48] She had done a pilot that they were saying wasn't going to get picked up. They cast her for the movie and the network changes their mind and goes actually we are picking it up so then she has to drop out so then they hire Malora.

[01:09:01] Why am I getting her name not Malora Hardin. They start filming the movie. They do five weeks then they reset and by the time they go back to Claudia Black that TV show had already been canceled and she gets it back again.

[01:09:18] Like the lining up of all this shit is just wild but they go back to Goldberg and they go is there any way we can get Fox and Goldberg says look the show is up and running again it's fine. I'll give him the script if he likes it.

[01:09:34] I will give it my blessing but the show has to be in first position.

[01:09:39] Your schedule has to defer to my show at all times so he gives the script to Michael J Fox he goes look I'm sorry I didn't send this to you four months ago they wanted you I blocked it. Read it.

[01:09:51] Fox reads it he goes back to Goldberg he says this is the best thing I've ever read you have to let me do this fine.

[01:09:56] So Michael J Fox's schedule while filming this movie was he would work on family ties from like six or 7am until like 5pm then they had a truck with a mattress in the back of it.

[01:10:10] He would nap while they would drive him over to Universal and he would film starting at like 6pm until like three or four in the morning sleep one hour.

[01:10:21] He would take a shower go back to family ties he would do that in five days a week and then Saturday was the one day where they could film exterior daylight scenes because it was the only time they had him during daylight hours.

[01:10:34] Yeah I think you kind of fucked him up yeah. He says he by and large doesn't remember most of making this movie it was all muscles like all instincts you know.

[01:10:46] He does seem wired and kind of out of it in this movie but that's just fine like that. It works for sense for the character so it's okay.

[01:10:57] I can barely act if I have had less than seven and a half hours of sleep I don't know how he did this I know he's just a neatly very gifted actor that he had the sitcom training that really just I think makes you like a fucking machine with this sort of stuff and that he was running off like the energy you know the

[01:11:15] actual motion of it but it is astonishing and to think that like most of these actors having already shot five weeks of this movie are now going back and having to reshoot scenes with another actor now at three o'clock in the morning.

[01:11:29] It the movie shouldn't work the way it does. And there are all these other little changes of just like as you said it was supposed to be the thing that powers the flux capacitor isn't a you know the bolt of lightning it's it needs radiation.

[01:11:44] They have to go to a nuclear testing site which they end up realizing they can't afford to do so they come up with the new ending that all has to take place around the time square with the lightning which is so much better it's so much better to have it

[01:11:57] so contained within a physical space where you understand the rules so clearly where where the game board is so visible.

[01:12:05] You know that it was originally supposed to be a fridge as you said that we traveled inside you know it was like the time travel device was like a thing that could be carried.

[01:12:17] He brought himself inside of a fridge because that had the lining to prevent him from getting the radiation and Universal said you can't do this because then kids are going to go hide inside fridges and die and suffocate to death.

[01:12:28] All these bad first ideas they had that were kicked out of them pragmatically but it just speaks to like they had to fight for everything in the screenplay.

[01:12:36] So the things they double down on they really knew were correct and the things they sacrificed they ended up coming up with better solutions for but you get to the opening of this movie. Let's talk about the movie.

[01:12:50] This wild opening shot where you do so much sort of world building through the news broadcast through Doc Brown's home I mean this really long wonder that really sets a mood leading into the introduction of Marty. You have all the clocks you have the newspaper clippings man.

[01:13:09] I love a room. Do you guys not love a room come on a good a good room G. It's always good. Okay here I'm going to say it. I'm sick of rubes. I'm going to be anti-rub. Fuck you David. Listen listen listen.

[01:13:27] Don't tell past and future guests are Ruben that. Oh I love rubes to be clear. Rubes is great. Love a Ruben in 80s. Look this you've got married to the mob. You've got Pee Weez. We have done multiple Rube Goldberg movies. Some of the best RGMs. Yeah.

[01:13:47] Maus trap the board game of course. We have to we have to genuflect and give respect. Of course. Say rats off to you the Maus trap. Exactly I'm just saying like they've had their day in the sun. Let's let's leave them in the past.

[01:14:00] I mean you're dunking on Ruben Goldberg machines when all the examples you listed pretty much took place in the 80s. People are still trying to put Ruben Goldberg's in front of your eyes.

[01:14:10] If a well I can hit a thing and a marble can go down and then it can like you know end up lighting a torch was then like burn to thing. And it goes across the room. And all of this to pour milk into coffee that's good.

[01:14:24] David they had their place in the sun. It's been over 35 years. There's no reason for you to be upset. Well we're not watching you to this in the movie podcast. Griffin Griffin Griffin. One other thing I want to say with the Rube Goldberg machine. Please.

[01:14:40] It doesn't work in this movie which is kind of funny or whatever you know if it worked. It's so long abandoned that it's piling up pieces of toast. But even that is deliberate because we're not going to see Doc Brown for 20 minutes.

[01:14:56] This movie needs to give us some background sense of the looming chaos and disorganization and mania of Doc Brown before we see him.

[01:15:05] There are all these plot details not plot details but sort of like background details that are seated in there that I feel like you don't even really consciously clock.

[01:15:14] I never really took stock of them until I'd seen the movie like 20 times and saw it on the big screen for the first time.

[01:15:20] But the thing about the fire to the the Brown family mansion which is sort of implying maybe Doc Brown burned his house down on purpose for the insurance money.

[01:15:31] Is that how he's still surviving or is he just such a disaster that he ended up burning it down by accident. Either way that sets it up the fact that the machine isn't working properly the fact that it's piled up and he hasn't been there for that long.

[01:15:43] You know the news broadcast with the notification of the plutonium going missing the terrorists all this sort of stuff. You're just like setting up all these things but because it's a fucking Rube Goldberg machine you're just accepting it as like this is fun and light.

[01:15:57] You're not feeling like you're being spoon fed exposition and then Marty enters no plugs in the guitar plays the one chord gets blown across the wall and we're in.

[01:16:06] This is the tone of the movie and that's the power of love right now just immediately he's on the skateboard he's on the tailpipe. He's got his girlfriend Marty work great. Marty's cool. Yeah. He's a true and he wants to be in the band. He's got a girlfriend.

[01:16:24] It's pretty cool. He thinks they're just too damn loud. Right. He has a Huey Lewis poster in his room. I know how rude of then of Huey Lewis to moonlight as the judge of his high school battle the bands and tell him to go fuck himself.

[01:16:41] And I'm trying to think I guess there's the confrontation with the principal and you know after that we meet his parents his parents are where you're kind of like suddenly like intentionally the air is out of the room a little bit and you're like this sucks like Jesus.

[01:16:55] Right because you have this long scene that's the dinner table scene. First you have Biff and then the dinner table scene.

[01:17:03] Right right you have Biff chewing out his dad but then it's everything the movie has been so fun so poppy so bright and then it's like this is a bummer.

[01:17:13] You know here's his dad who is just so oblivious head in the clouds and his mom who just has lost any joy in life. Absolutely. Go ahead Ben. Yeah it's got this coding of the bad side of town. Yeah.

[01:17:28] And I feel like though at the same time I really I really liked seeing that as a kid of like not showing kind of a like.

[01:17:38] What's it called Lions Court or whatever the you know whatever the housing developments called they're weird sort of yeah housing community are called a sack. I mean and just like kind of this like mainstream movie that they're able to like not show a perfect family.

[01:17:54] Yeah and these are things that also help Marty you know become a relatable character is that his life isn't perfect and as much as if you asked him what his greatest goal in life is it would just be I want a bigger car so I can go to the woods and fuck my girlfriend as an audience member even if he could verbalize this you're like this guy doesn't have it all as

[01:18:17] much as he sort of glides through life you know seemingly without a care in the world there's there's a fundamental sadness to his existence and it's that he's got these two parents who are just like miserable and suck you know and both of his parents are

[01:18:32] sort of like lack the courage to admit that they're sad.

[01:18:37] And if you live in that kind of environment you're just putting up with your mother's alcoholism right because that's just the normal you're putting up with your dad being a pushover and everyone's unhappy and you sit at the thing though.

[01:18:50] You wonder if you're stuck am I just like doomed is this what my you know right with his mom you get it okay she's she's drinking too much now and she has this weird school the energy of like a girl shouldn't be pursuing a boy that feels kind of

[01:19:05] like okay what Crispin Glover is doing is not normal.

[01:19:10] No, like what Leah Thompson is doing I can totally understand what Crispin Glover is doing I'm like just looking left and right I'm like who what's the deal with this guy this guy is the craziest thing I've ever seen.

[01:19:21] I enjoy Crispin Glover I know this is obviously his one of his most iconic roles probably his most iconic role just because the size of the movie this or the hair sniffer from Charlie's Angels.

[01:19:32] Exactly and I like obviously and I know enough about the movie that I know that he was kind of driving driving some mech is crazy. Absolutely every choice he's making is just odd he's just yeah I mean he's a freak. He's a dead freak.

[01:19:47] Fox said like you know it's interesting you hear about the different acting styles on this movie right and it's like Leah Thompson's background was as a dancer she's very much into precision and technique you know and she's like I really like the challenge of playing two people and two different you know one person

[01:20:05] in two different eras being able to affect the physicality of it I love the degree of how technical Zemeckis was his friend make up on its right it's really elaborate yeah right Fox has the champagne energy.

[01:20:17] He has the you know the sitcommy timing you know the effervescence all these things I'm saying Christopher Lloyd is like this really like meticulous sort of go for it but but in some to some degree improvisational I mean they talk about he like.

[01:20:36] Christopher Lloyd is a guy who does 150% energy on every take so when they would do camera rehearsals he wouldn't do it like he would be like oh Marty what are you doing here like moving at no speed whatsoever like Chris rock trying out new material and he was like I just can't burn energy if it's not a real

[01:20:55] take but also his performance would evolve take over take so a lot of the great stuff he does is discoveries and then once he discovers something he could then repeat it perfectly but there has to be a natural build to it it's not there in the first time he's not doing that level of prep work he's like.

[01:21:12] Chipping away at it so they would film the rehearsals knowing that it probably would be unusable but you don't want to.

[01:21:19] Have a blocking rehearsal that doesn't really make sense because he's not really doing it and you also don't want to tie him down to something because he's going to find it later and then you have Crispin Glover who's just.

[01:21:30] Gonzo like Crispin Glover is in that category of like Nicholas Cage where it's like what I'm doing is like impressionistic it doesn't resemble logical human behavior my thought process behind every decision.

[01:21:45] I can explain it but it makes no logical sense I mean like Fox said that that was the guy that he sort of envied that he was such a big Crispin Glover fan that he had worked with Crispin Glover a couple times before done TV movie with him Glover had been on family ties and amongst their generation of actors everyone kind of envied Glover because they were like man this guy's just in another.

[01:22:08] He's weird right yeah he's doing his own thing yeah.

[01:22:11] And he just sees the world differently he has ideas that no one else would ever had and he said like there's a scene where I'm trying to convince him to ask out Lorraine and he grabbed a broom and started like sweeping in front of me like in the air and after the take Zemeckis was like Crispin what was that.

[01:22:32] And he was like it was my sweep of indignation.

[01:22:37] Okay Crispin God I would be like I already burned firing an actor on this thing what am I going to do that was the exact response they gave him but it was like we know that the good stuff he's giving us we couldn't get from someone else who's more right.

[01:22:54] It works in that like it's probably boring or less compelling if Lloyd is just a dweeb right like you know and it's also kind of I mean sorry not Lloyd George Christopher Lloyd George will fly.

[01:23:09] It's also probably kind of hard to play an adult dweeb like regular dweeb like absolutely people don't behave like that as grown ups like they don't let people walk all over the like the scene where Biff is walking all over him is sort of is is insane.

[01:23:25] It's very funny because it's so insane and because Biff is so ludicrous and then it's so funny to see it mirrored but like you're like what kind of a person and then you see what Crispin Glover is doing and you're like yeah I guess this kind of a person I guess that's the only kind of a person.

[01:23:40] But why don't you argue that because it's it's done in this way that it actually doesn't feel sad. Sure he's not exactly sad right he's sort of just like in his own world.

[01:23:52] He's so oblivious the whole premise is like yeah they fell in love almost by mistake because she like would nurse him back to health and it was just kind of like a freak occurrence. Right. Like quickly realize she quickly realized he's like just in his own world.

[01:24:08] I think that's an incredibly good point Ben because it's like without Leia Thompson giving it the actual weight and gravitas of her sadness every line reading she has in the 1985 reality is just like the full weight of a woman who regrets every decision she has made that led her to this point.

[01:24:27] Without that it feels flippant you know I don't feel like the stakes are there if you actually want to see them get together beyond.

[01:24:36] You know Marty not disappearing from the photo the idea that you want these two people to be together emotionally I think you need that but on the other hand if Glover is as sad as she is the movie becomes unbearably heavy. Yeah it's like Jesus.

[01:24:52] I think also in this Nicholas Cage way of like he's not representing what actual human behavior looks like he's representing how it feels. It's like he's playing the way someone perceives their father that they're embarrassed by if that makes any sense. Yeah.

[01:25:10] Which also adds to the tension of the movie where when he goes back to 1955 and George is still that fundamentally weird you're like this is impossible. He will never make her fall in love with him.

[01:25:23] You know aside from him just being a conventional nerd it's like this guy is so weird there's no way to solve this. I think it lends the movie some real tension. I mean he's have you ever seen this movie in a theater David.

[01:25:38] Probably not no they did some re-release either for I think the 25th or the 35th Adam events had played one weekend thing and I feel like it's been re-released and drive-ins a lot this summer when the movies died.

[01:25:52] But I only saw it like in theaters then you know five or ten years ago and the two things that jumped out to me about how differently it played in a theater were A.

[01:26:03] There are so many compositions where he has Christopher Lloyd in the background of a frame doing something incredibly funny that is hard to read on a small screen. And B. The Glover performance just like brings the house down in theaters.

[01:26:21] Yeah because he's right in the core because you that's that sort of thing of like we need to laugh at this just so we feel more comfortable with how bizarre this is. Yes. Right.

[01:26:32] Like I always just sort of viewed him as the dilemma and Lloyd as the funny character and then watching in theaters I was like wow he's like stealthily maybe the funniest performance in this movie. Everyone's funny though. I think Tom Wilson obviously very funny as Biff.

[01:26:47] Yeah, I think he kind of has the buffoonery of that down in a way that a lot of people wouldn't. A lot of people would just be like I'll just be mean like combined with a genuine man. He needs to yeah right.

[01:27:00] He needs to be ludicrously insecure which he is like which is just makes it funnier. I think Leah Thompson is so funny in this movie like once she's young. Leah you know once she's young Lorraine who wins the supporting categories in 1985 for for the Academy Awards.

[01:27:19] Yeah, the Oscars because I just feel like slam dunk in my mind. I know I've done this thought experiment before Leah Thompson and Christopher Lloyd both should have been nominated. Let's see who won. Obviously this film was only nominated for screenplay and the song and some technical awards.

[01:27:37] Is this the high-angels of the year? No best supporting actor is Dona Michi and cocoon. Absolutely the Christopher Lloyd should have beaten Dona Michi and cocoon. Yeah, Christopher Lloyd should have beaten all these guys actually kind of a weird year.

[01:27:50] Robert lozier Eric Roberts, Klaus Maria Brandauer and William Hickey Wild Wildfire. And weird that Zemeckis was supposed to direct cocoon. He was right and then supporting actress Angelica Houston wins for Prissey's Honor great win. And you've got Oprah Winfrey and Margaret Avery from the Color Purple.

[01:28:10] You've got Amy Madigan from Twice in a Lifetime. You've got Meg Tilly Agnes of God. You know the 80s are weird. I would kick Leah Thompson in there too but for sure and I would kick Lloyd in there for sure. I'm with you.

[01:28:22] The thing that always jumps out to me rewatching it is I do feel like Leah Thompson is one of the best performances by a young actor playing an older person I have ever seen.

[01:28:34] She is so subtle in the way she ages the character up, you know that it doesn't feel cartoonish and watching this movie for the first time as like a 10 year old. And obviously I was watching it on VHS. The quality was lower.

[01:28:52] You know when you watch it in HD the makeup is more apparent. I remember thinking this is a woman in her 40s and when you go back to 1955 and I recognize oh my God, this is the same actress. This is her stripped of makeup.

[01:29:04] I kind of couldn't believe it whereas Glover's obviously giving this far cartoonier performance. But he's good to be clear. To be clear I support the performance. I just think it's weird that he did this. I think that makes sense.

[01:29:19] But it's like a happy accident that ends up synchronizing, harmonizing with what everyone else is doing perfectly. So you get the scene with the siblings, everyone's miserable. Marty's the one guy who's sort of seemingly aware of the fact that life could be better. That's kind of his handicap.

[01:29:37] Everyone else is just resigned to being sort of miserable and being under the thumb. And all he wants to do is go away to the cabin in the woods for the weekend with Jennifer, with the car. And his mom doesn't want to let him do it.

[01:29:50] Tisk, tisk, tisk. But he goes to sleep. He wakes up a phone call in the middle of the night. He forgot his promise to his best friend, reclusive inventor Dr. Emmett Brown. Of course. He had to be there to film the thing.

[01:30:04] Skateboard's over with his video camera at Twin Pines Mall. That's his end of the bargain is that he's the cinematographer. He's the cameraman for Doc Brown's experiments. And Doc Brown believes that he's finally cracked it, the thing he's been working on for 30 years, the flux capacitor.

[01:30:23] You get this hero reveal of the car. I mean, it's like, it's a calling their own shot thing. To some degree, you wonder, does the car become iconic because the movie is so adamant about making you accept the car as iconic.

[01:30:40] But I also just feel like it's another perfect accident that the movie gains power by how quickly the DeLorean collapsed after the release of this movie. So this becomes peak DeLorean.

[01:30:56] And as time goes on, this car just feels like a complete creation of this movie down to like the wing doors. To be clear, Griffin, the DeLorean had already collapsed. The DeLorean was an antique object when this movie came out. It collapses by 1982.

[01:31:12] The reason it works in this movie is because that car was like a space car. And of course that was why it stuck out when it was created, where it was like, look at this thing. Nothing looks like it.

[01:31:24] And then of course people bought it and it cost a ton of money and it didn't work very well. And so it didn't commercially succeed. But when this movie recasts that fringe object as a futuristic machine, of course they know it's a DeLorean.

[01:31:40] But it's like, great, you found the purpose of this thing. Who knew? It looks like production design for a sci-fi movie about time travel in its natural state, in its stripped-down state. There are only 9000 DeLoreans in the world ever made. It was not like a big thing.

[01:32:00] Right, well you keep buying them. Right, and obviously. But yes, the joke of... I love them. I just live in them. I have a race car, but it's just a literal race car.

[01:32:13] The joke of you built a time machine out of a DeLorean is it's like you built a time machine out of a Zune. Out of a shitty car, right? Right, exactly. A Zune is a good car.

[01:32:25] Right, it's like any fair, you know, failed like big belly flop technology. But I just think the more time goes on and the more that kids don't even have that context of knowing that it's a failed car. It just looks like...

[01:32:39] It's like Back to the Future has been able to fully own the DeLorean as its own proprietary thing in this weird accidental way. And all the kibble they add onto it is so good.

[01:32:48] It's the right combination of sleekness from the innate car and the sort of like scrappiness of all the add-ons that Doc Brown gives it. Well, yeah, it's telling you, it's signaling to the audience that he's a renegade scientist, which I love.

[01:33:01] I think that that's so cool, that he's like doing all of this crazy stuff, but clearly is just like not involved with any kind of like academia in any way. That he's like dealing with terrorists and stealing plutonium. Yeah.

[01:33:16] Now Ben, we know you love the members only jacket or at least you did for a while. Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah. This is a similar object and an 80s curiosity that was briefly, you know, cool. The DeLorean, the members only that's done making a connection.

[01:33:35] That's all got it. Yeah. Now everyone just went over like a brick. Well, I just feel like members only though 40% approval rating. Oh, well, okay. No, sorry. What are you gonna say? Still winning the Electoral College.

[01:33:48] Members only the system's broken is also it's like one of those things though, David, where it's like it will permanently be in every vintage clothes store. Like it's like kind of almost synonymous with like, yes, it's like the Michael Jackson thriller of like use record.

[01:34:05] You know, you know what I'm saying? Because they were so hot for two years. They made it. It's like how there's so many copies of killer instinct on the Nintendo 64 still floating around there. Very McGuire on VHS. Yes. Anyway, look, they travel back in time.

[01:34:21] Let's travel back in time guys. Can we take a five second pause for me to pee? I need to pee very badly. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Cool. I'll pee too. We'll see you listeners in the future. I'm back. I'm back to the president. Back to the president.

[01:34:45] Ben is not back yet despite what Peter Hedges might tell us. David, I'm just getting back into it. David, sure. Yeah, let's do it. David, this isn't an ad read. This is a new point I'm going to make.

[01:35:03] My film career has not been what one would call good. Oh, get out of here. No, I'm not being self-effacing, but you know, like the work I've done that I'm proud of by and large is in TV and as someone. Yeah, sure. The movies have been in less.

[01:35:21] Yeah, yeah, sure. Yes. And as someone who loves movies so much and loves the communal experience of movie going, which I miss greatly. Yes. I get so envious when I hear stories about like legendary test screenings, you know, or like opening weekend audiences.

[01:35:42] Those instances where a movie plays like a live performance. This is a classic where the studio is like back to the future. I don't know, like I watched it. I thought it was okay. They watch it with an audience.

[01:35:55] The audience is just absolutely through the roof and they're like, oh my God. I'm going to tell the idea of being able to because as a live performer, you don't get to be outside of your head and enjoy the audience enjoying it. You're still working.

[01:36:09] If you have a good movie and you get to go to the theater opening weekend or sit at the premiere or the test screening and watch it play like gangbusters, it must just be the most satisfying thing in the world.

[01:36:21] And they talk about like Michael J Fox was getting bigger and bigger from family ties when they test screen this movie, which they did like four weeks after they finished filming, right? They put it together with temp music with unfinished effects really quickly.

[01:36:39] The audience knew nothing other than it's the guy from family ties and the guy from taxi, right? It's like two sitcom stars who aren't movie stars yet. And they know the title, but what the fuck does back to the future mean?

[01:36:51] It might as well just be gobbledygook, right? They know nothing about the premise. So the first 20 minutes, they're thinking it's just kind of your average teen movie, as you said.

[01:37:00] When Doc Brown comes in, you know, Gail and Zemeckis say they could feel the audience going like, what is this? Wait, how does this character figure into this movie? Christopher Lloyd is one of...in this film, I think.

[01:37:15] If I can throw out a little hyperbole, perhaps the best exposition giver in the history of cinema. You're right. He's very...that is hyperbolic, but yes, he's incredibly good at the exposition. You are not wrong.

[01:37:28] And they talked about that was like a big fear for them is like, we have to do so much table setting. How is the audience going to live up to this?

[01:37:35] And it's like he makes such strong comedic choices that carry over in everything he says, so that he's always entertaining. And even if you feel like you're not absorbing what he's saying to you,

[01:37:48] you're subconsciously backpocketing it while enjoying the comedy of just like, what's this guy going to do next? The unpredictability keeps you paying attention, which is the magic trick of this performance.

[01:38:00] Reverend Jim has like a similar sort of like chaos to him, but he's so spacey that like, you know, he's this burnout character on Taxi. This guy, he's so propulsive that you like want to lean in because you trust that he's going to take you somewhere.

[01:38:18] And Marty McFly is like the reaction character of going like, what? What are you talking about? That makes it easy to absorb. But you're having all this like him explaining like, what's the best thing I got hitting the head, Marty? All this sort of stuff.

[01:38:31] This incredible thing device he uses over and over across these three movies where because the height difference between Lloyd and Fox is so big, he'll do that thing where he has them in a two shot but staggered.

[01:38:43] So one of them is really close to the camera and one of them is really far away. So they roughly look the same height and then he has them switch positions and they keep on walking back and forth,

[01:38:53] which also lends to this sort of magic trick quality of even though it's not a musical number. The choreography is kind of exciting to watch the timing be that precise. The actors pick up those lines.

[01:39:05] But you get to this thing where the car comes out, the Sylvesterie score kicks in as opposed to other movies of this era. You don't have this synthesizer score. You don't have what was starting to become the popular score method of the time.

[01:39:20] And you also don't have a rock and roll score because rock is going to underline the movie as like a key thing. You have this very old fashioned major symphony score, which is giving you this hero theme for a car and then a dog.

[01:39:34] And Gail talks about like sitting there, test screening. This happens and the audience is like, wait, what is this movie? They put Einstein in the car, hit the stopwatch. The car zooms, explodes, disappears, flames. Right. Marty's doing the whole like, ah, you blew up the dog.

[01:39:53] You know, right. The audience goes like, ugh. Right. Kill the dog. Because they're like, is the premise of this movie they killed a dog? Is that what this movie is going to hinge on now? Why would that be the premise of this movie, dumb audience?

[01:40:06] I'm telling you, this is the story that the audience, if you're watching a movie with no context, you're sitting there going, when's the hook going to come in? When's the hook? When's the hook? Right. So they also, no one wants to see an animal get hurt. It's universal.

[01:40:21] No one likes that. Right. So the audience like cringes and then when the dog comes back, he's like, I felt this sudden like a media release of tension where it was. Okay. Wait, it's time travel. So that's what's going on in this movie.

[01:40:37] The audience starts to get roped in. Then of course you have this really, really just well constructed sequence where the terrorists show up. They get in this big shootout. Doc Brown gets shot down.

[01:40:48] It's pretty upsetting, which it kind of needs to be because you need to have the fact that Marty witnessed this firsthand be something that haunts him so much that he's willing to disrupt the space time continuing to prevent it. I agree.

[01:41:01] But that was also the moment where Forky was like, yeah, I definitely haven't seen this movie because you have to remember him getting shot by terrorists. Totally.

[01:41:10] And then the fact that he does not know he is traveling through time, the fact that it's accidental that he's just trying to get away and then you just have that seamless fucking transition.

[01:41:20] Like as opposed to something like Bill and Ted shortly after this where you see them go through the circuits of time, which I enjoy in its own way. The fact that they have this like shot from the dashboard of just driving, driving, driving suddenly you're in a field.

[01:41:32] Like the hard cut is like Sherlock Junior stuff, but it's so effective. It's great. He's in the fifties. He's in the barn. They think he's a space man from Pluto, right? He's totally disoriented.

[01:41:44] The fact that they filmed this on the universal back lot that they didn't want to film in a back lot that they want to find a real town.

[01:41:51] This gave them the control to be able to make the eighties version of the town even dirtier than a real town could be and the fifties version of the town even shinier than a real town could be.

[01:42:02] It also makes it as I said, such a clear visible game board. So much of the movie is centered around this one town square and it helps that you have such a clear mapping of what the two look like because it's so manageable in your mind, right? Absolutely.

[01:42:18] And all the little jokes of the mayor, you know, and things like that. Like, you know, all those little changes there. Mr. Sandman playing. It's about the different stuff. Right?

[01:42:28] And as you said, it's like Gale and Zemeckis are to some degree riffing on the way that the fifties are portrayed in this very shiny idealistic.

[01:42:37] This is when things were pure light and media at the time because this fifties version, they put these warmer gels on the lights. You have the softer music playing like everything feels like, oh, this is perfect. This is paradise laws. Look at this like perfect town here.

[01:42:52] He goes into the diner, right? Or the mall shop or whatever. Biff walks in and yells McFly and he and his dad turn around at the same time. So great.

[01:43:02] That's the moment that Gale says the audience burst into applause that he could hear the gasp from the audience of, oh my God, that's what this movie is about. That's so brilliant.

[01:43:14] It gives me fucking goosebumps to think about being in their shoes, sitting there in the theater at that moment with a cold audience, seeing them all get it and be that excited by what the film was doing.

[01:43:28] It's just like, could there be any more satisfying feeling in the world of just like we nailed it. We nailed it. And then the rest of the movie just fucking pays out like a slot machine. Like they're hooked. They're on the hook.

[01:43:42] And they were like, Catherine Kennedy is like there were seven spontaneous applause breaks Spielberg's like it's still to this day is the single best test screen I've ever seen at the end of the movie.

[01:43:52] They rose to their feet like to just walk out of that theater and be like we nailed it slam dunk.

[01:43:59] But but in particular that moment because it is so exquisitely done of the turning around and then him looking like that shot that's so good where you have the profile of George McFly and then Marty leans into it. It's yes, yes, absolutely. It's so deeply satisfying.

[01:44:20] I'm trying to articulate why go ahead. The thought I'm having is like you could do anything with time travel, right? Story wise, like the thing you wouldn't necessarily do is go to where you've lived. Right.

[01:44:35] Like I feel like the thought is like you'd go to see historical events or whatever. You do a Bill and Ted, you'd hang out with Socrates and Beethoven. Right. Yeah. And it makes me think of kind of why three doesn't work a little bit.

[01:44:49] Look, I do know what I'm saying. Yes. I love to. I like three a lot. They unquestionably are diminishing returns, although I think two is close just in terms of being one of the better sequels ever made. But two and three are fundamentally time travel movies.

[01:45:05] They are about time travel. This is a movie that uses time travel as means to an end, which is that moment. Like it's all just shoe leather to get to that moment at the counter in the mall shop.

[01:45:21] And the fact that the window dressing of the time travel on top of that is so exquisitely well done is what pushes this movie into like, you know, just like perfect cultural artifact territory. But but you're never going to replicate that juice of. Right.

[01:45:40] We all think about what we would do. How would we go back and kill Hitler to make the future better? How would we go back and meet people or see a time that we've been obsessed within our minds?

[01:45:49] You know, they hit on something that no one had crystallized before, which is the most profound thing you could do is be the same age as your parents is be able to witness the things that you've only heard about and reconcile your perception of them,

[01:46:04] even when you're this age where you are living with that fear of. Everyone's either in high school, I think, wondering, am I going to end up succeeding as much as my parents or am I going to fail as much as my parents? Right.

[01:46:20] Everyone, I think either views their parents as like a specter of a future they want to avoid or an unrealistic sort of standard that they have to meet. And the idea of being able to at that threshold of adulthood.

[01:46:34] Compare directly is just it's it will never not be resonant. Also for kids, you don't think about your parents as ever being young.

[01:46:44] No, it's like a thing I don't think that it takes until you get way into your adulthood to actually be like, so wait, yeah, when my parents met they were basically like my age and were like me. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's brilliant.

[01:46:57] It is truly a brilliant idea for them to land on and it's it's it transcends all generations. It like, you know, it will never not be poignant. That's true. But this is a very specific movie like generationally.

[01:47:14] I feel like once again the story only works with the fifties in the eighties because of that shift there. If you think about if you were to make this movie today, Marty would have to go back to 1995. And it's just jokes about what music they're listening to. Right.

[01:47:29] I think so. Yes, I mean like now it becomes hot time machine for sure. But it's also like we would just be like there's so much disaster like where is in the eighties and fifties. Those are both eras of prosperity and American exceptionalism. Right.

[01:47:51] And it's funny to mock both of them with each other. And even if Galen's a mech is his view of like that sort of Reagan era arrogance and the sort of me generation is curdled. There's an analog there.

[01:48:07] And it also means that like it could make you actually long for a different type of American prosperity because I think their view of what was going on the eighties was fairly cynical. Whereas now, right, you'd be like, well, I mean the nineties were we any really better.

[01:48:23] I mean, we're certainly worse now, but it's not like necessarily a time where we're like, man, I wish we were there. You know, right. But it's also we would just literally be like, there's these disasters we have to like that we have to warn you about.

[01:48:36] It would just be a bummer now. Right. And it would just be like the fucking like Pablo Picasso. I'm telling you he will never amount to anything like that. Sure. Right. Right. Sort of HBO making television shows nonsense. The smaller TV on your phone.

[01:48:53] You just listen to it like right. It's hot. What's that? I like large ones. Yeah, the bites need to be big really. It's more of a swallow is how I describe experiencing these things. Right. You get those jokes with Doc Brown.

[01:49:09] You get those jokes where it's like, oh no, who's president? Ronald Reagan, the Reagan joke. Right. Yes. Great joke. He was an actor. Yeah. Right. The Marty chasing George out feeling the sort of doomed like Jesus Christ, the cycle's been going on for so long.

[01:49:30] Biff is still giving him the business back in this time period. Like my dad's just been stuck for 30 years. But then of course saving his father, pushing him out of the way, taking the hit from the car after seeing that his dad's a fucking dang ass freak.

[01:49:48] He's sitting in a peeping tom. In a branch with binoculars peeping. Yeah. That's some 80s comedy shit though, right? Coming after Ben's nickname. It's some 50s shit too though.

[01:50:01] I mean like that is such a like now obviously no one would say peeping Tom anymore as like a thing like where it's like, well he's a peeping Tom.

[01:50:10] But like that you know that's like that's like cutesy dialogue right for like this is the whole thing about this movie. They're all freaks in the 50s. Yeah. They all wanted to fucking jerk off too. Right. And they like you know so they're horny little freaks.

[01:50:23] They make the joke even that this keeps happening. Right. Because like the mother is always changing in the window. Also for listeners who are not familiar, I didn't earn the nickname from doing that. It was from being in the room and watching the boys do their thing.

[01:50:38] I just wanted to clarify that. Just in case people are like wait okay so are we saying that Ben earned that nickname by being a total fucking creep? Okay. I don't know Ben.

[01:50:48] I mean it was it was pretty fucking horny when you were watching us podcasting it that was a very intimate act for the two of us and you were just peeping in on it. Okay. Yeah. He's yes he's a creepy little peeping Tom.

[01:50:59] He and he and Marty takes his place and look I mean what I just love the second Leah Thompson Thomas is there Thompson Leah Thompson is there and the whatever that further. Game is revealed where it's like oh oh like the Calvin Klein joke. Right.

[01:51:21] Like another thing where you have to imagine the audience is already starting to levitate from the George McFly connection the moment where they click.

[01:51:27] Oh no now the movie is about the fact it's so transgressive it's so fucking weird right and and so Freudian yeah the thing I love theories smart about right.

[01:51:40] A it's very Freudian but B I think they're smart about is these are two very charismatic very very good looking young actors right on a basic primal sense it would make sense that they would be attracted to each other.

[01:51:54] A thing I think that Michael J. Fox plays really really well is it's not that he is tempted to fuck his mom but objectively she is good looking and he is a teenage boy who is getting attention from a pretty girl that that like starts like short circuiting him every time it happens right that it's

[01:52:14] not just a complete revulsion that it's like such a confusing experience for him there also is that thing that like we you hear about that phenomenon of like twins who were split at birth.

[01:52:29] Who then meet and fall in love and then find out that they're related that there's like that weird energy you have with relatives that if you don't know it you can miss identify as romance.

[01:52:41] And jumping ahead of ourselves it is so smart and Zemeckis and Gail were like that's the moment where we realized we could pull the movie off the fact that she.

[01:52:52] Is revolved once they kiss the fact that it's an immediate like oh that was gross I don't know why but that wasn't satisfying at all movie doesn't work without that.

[01:53:04] That's their saving like yes if the movie had them kissing and then she's like what distracted and then are you pushing me away.

[01:53:14] Right and the movie proceeds and she ends up you know with George McFly without that I think people would just be like Jesus that's you know like where is right having that it's just like right there's this notion like there's some sort of thing in the universe she just knows this doesn't make sense like.

[01:53:32] Is broken yes whatever the same thing is that draws her to him also tells her you should not be kissing him that you're misidentifying what that feeling of adoration.

[01:53:44] Fucking weird Americans I know but but he like the way they tell it they were like have we written ourselves into a corner is there no way to resolve this and the moment you have that realization it feels so obvious that of course that's what happens.

[01:54:03] But yes this first scene is so fucking good with the two of them in the bedroom where she's just being so aggressive in her sort of demure like who you who me but.

[01:54:13] That's funny though running it right it would be lame if it was like you know not to bag on I love Fisher and wedding crashers but like you know that kind of a performance where it's someone who's just like the joke is that I'm so horny.

[01:54:26] And in like I like right Catherine Trammell and then basic instinct or yeah she's like climbing the walls right like I like how Leah Thompson is like kind of doing the you know cute 50s you know girl drinking a soda pop like thing but just that like it's the things

[01:54:43] that they're just kind of underlying like look guys it's the same with I want to hold your hand which is not like you say it's not like I particularly dirty movie but it is kind of about like some weird sexual passion like took over everyone's brain like this is.

[01:54:57] Is what's at the root of this it just I think is a very masterful performance from her and she had done a couple movies at this point she did like Jaws 3D and she did well she did the the Cameron Crow movie that he wrote that's why they cast her.

[01:55:13] Fuck though God is that what it's called yeah the wild like it's the sequel to fast times unofficially right it's because she's with Stolz in that movie so that's why they cast her she was also in she's in red dawn and all the right that was right and all the right moves she's so good in that that's a good.

[01:55:31] Movie or is it good on it's like a classic. It's good.

[01:55:34] It's pretty good but this is like she's been in four movies of some note at up until this point this is her best role like this has a lot to chew on as an actor isn't the love interest you're the cute girl because she's playing several things in every scene and because she is such a story driver like she's creating tension you know in conflict with all of her moves.

[01:55:56] And once again like.

[01:55:59] Fox is such a good foil for her dance partner and understanding the right comic energy to throw back off of her but now it's like yes this movie feels like you've set up this impossible conundrum which is man Lorraine seems so fixated on trying to fuck Marty and George McFly is such a space cadet.

[01:56:21] How is he ever going to get Lorraine off of him and how is he ever going to get George to look appealing to her. It genuinely feels like an unsolvable issue. It does.

[01:56:35] And then I like that the movie rather than being like okay well this is what it's about. Yeah. Then kind of is like well all right so that's the issue anyway now Marty's gonna go find young doc now Marty's gonna have run ins with Biff.

[01:56:50] He's gonna have the big chase you know like now we're gonna have a bunch of other adventures that are all feeding into this but we don't need it to be a Serena de Bergerac movie where Marty is like feeding his dad lines the whole time and like you know what I mean like.

[01:57:04] He could easily be like that could be your movie right. Young doc also he's like oh so old when I was a kid I was like is doc a hundred and fifty years old.

[01:57:17] Yes yes he's one of those people where I feel like it's a little bit of the Max von Sider thing where I want to do the math. How is Christopher Lloyd still alive wasn't he 80 when back to the future was shot.

[01:57:31] Lloyd was in his 50s I believe because he's about 80 now so I guess that you could sort of go with the concept of like I guess doc Browns in his like early 60s in the movie and like in the present and in his 30s.

[01:57:47] And he's just kind of like an old 30s like right like that's the idea.

[01:57:51] Look here I think it is a deliberate and canny joke on their part because on like the the Blu-rays and whatever they have makeup tests where they gave him more prosthetics in the 1985 chunk of the movie where they were sort of putting.

[01:58:09] There's a test where you see Leia Thompson with the makeup she finally has Tom Wilson with the makeup he finally has in the 1985 stuff and then Christopher Lloyd with that level of like prosthetic jowls and wrinkles. And all of that and it looks weird.

[01:58:22] You're greatly hampering his ability to not a good idea. Right. And I also think it's just so funny when you cut back to the 50s and you're like oh this guy looks five years younger.

[01:58:37] This idea that it's like and it feels fundamentally true where it's like he never would have felt like a young man like even when he was 20 you know this guy always had old man energy. Yeah.

[01:58:48] Now I want to see what Christopher Lloyd looked like as a young man. I mean look okay you know what he looked like Christopher Lloyd as a young man. I'm accepting this. But yes he looks like Christopher Lloyd.

[01:59:00] I guess like one flew over the cuckoo's nest right that's that's about the youngest Christopher Lloyd I've ever seen. But yeah no it works just make his hair lighter and like I don't care. I don't care. I find it. I'm locked in. Yeah it's very funny.

[01:59:16] I also it's also. Oh sorry. Where are you going to say that? I just wanted to know I feel like it's this version of Doc where he does something that you know I love he calls an inventor by he calls a Tom Edison. Yes. It's a great joke.

[01:59:33] Sorry. I just had to much like your Dan Lewis joke. Well of course we're very good friends. There's familiarity with like proper nouns like that but then they said like the big rule that Galen Zemeckis.

[01:59:46] Applied for Doc Brown is he never uses the smaller word when there's one available.

[01:59:52] So even like he will spend two sentences explaining something that could be conveyed with one saying like in the sense that when Doc Brown is trying to help Marty realize that he needs to get his parents together.

[02:00:08] He's standing in front of a poster that says like Enchantment under the sea dance and he goes on this whole thing about like some sort of design social function at which young people are meeting.

[02:00:18] Like the word dance is there and he doesn't say it and they were like that was always a comedic game we were playing is that he'll take the longest possible route to get to something that could be very colloquial.

[02:00:29] But yes this scene in the house where it's like OK now we're seeing the version of Doc Brown if he never got his shit together as chaotic as the guys seemed in the 80s.

[02:00:40] This guy is just like a completely paranoid maniac you know who's like this wound on his head walking around his home with a bathrobe and a tie on like in this giant mansion by himself. Yeah. It's like why doesn't he seem threatening because he doesn't.

[02:00:57] I think when you're a kid there's just something inherently lovable about Christopher Lloyd except for we frame Roger but obviously we'll get to that. But right like don't you know what I mean. In a sense to this character.

[02:01:06] There's some kind of like fun like in a sense energy. I think it's the costuming. It's how eccentric he is. But yeah it's wearing colorful clothes like he looks like a weird adult. Right.

[02:01:18] Yeah he looks like a weird adult like sometimes kids are afraid of old people because whatever like you know old people can be kind of freaky like and yeah. He's got that opposite energy of their kids just like yeah yeah. I get this guy.

[02:01:31] This guy is on my wavelength.

[02:01:33] That's the other thing with the makeup test is he's got normal hair and he's the one like he said he got the script and much like Robocop his agent sent him and he looked at the script and he said back to the future fuck this and didn't read it.

[02:01:46] And it was like three weeks later that a friend was like you got offered a movie. Like Chris don't turn something down just because you think you don't want to be in a teen sci-fi comedy.

[02:01:56] And then he read it was like I had an idea of what I could do. So pretentious right. Right. He goes to some Macs and he's like I'm going to be clear.

[02:02:03] Let go was let go is the first choice we didn't acknowledge that but let go is there are a lot of other people like I feel like I've been thrown out Klaus Kinski maybe was thrown out at one point like anyone who was sort of like that wild in this time period.

[02:02:17] But he was not low on the list but he was not their first choice. He disregarded at first goes to some Macs and is like look this is what I would do.

[02:02:26] I like the idea of him being like Albert Einstein or Leopold Stokowski where he's got this sort of fun exuberant energy.

[02:02:35] He's got that sort of like mania to him that feels affectionate and somewhat adorable and some Macs was like yeah right and gave him carte blanche to do whatever the fuck he wanted.

[02:02:46] And in most takes he's doing things that surprise people things that he wasn't doing in rehearsals that he's discovering in the moment and it helps especially because it's good for the comedy comes from him being in his own little ecosystem and Marty reacting to him as the audience surrogate.

[02:03:02] But this like scene this whole extended set piece of the two of them in the house Marty having to win him over giving him the emotional speech about the flux capacitor and then Doc figuring out all the pieces being so excited that time travel works knowing he's going to amount to something in his life.

[02:03:20] Right, that's the weird thrill of it right because he's just done the brain machine that didn't work like and he's obviously you know thinks he's a crackpot yeah.

[02:03:30] Right and you're like he's like he must be the black sheep son of a very wealthy sort of higher echelon family in this town as money for some reason that's not due to his acumen.

[02:03:43] Right what a shame that the brown kid fucked up a home lab is always like just again a sign of a really weird person. Yeah. Do you think you should have a home lab. Yeah, for sure.

[02:03:55] I wanted to buy a bunch of chemicals which you can just get online. You have a garage in Jersey right. You shouldn't acknowledge these things. Yeah, no actually there should not be a trail of this. And a taped thing yeah right.

[02:04:07] Oh yeah yeah don't don't pull a wood word on yourself Ben. That's the other thing I love is that like he's got this big mansion you see the newspaper headlines of the house burning down back in the 1985 timeline but in the 1985 timeline.

[02:04:23] He just lives in the garage that used to be next to this house like the house is gone. The garage was his lab and now the garage is also his home like he's like downsized whether it was through an accident gone array or a insurance scam.

[02:04:38] It's like everything's just become this lunatic willing to burn away like his family's legacy in the name of science and the joy when he figures it out and then does that like point to the camera.

[02:04:53] Back to the future like he is two degrees off from staring at the audience and doing like a Vincent Price House of Wax. Let's also acknowledge just the confidence this movie has of the very bold logo to you know title logo right at the start.

[02:05:11] You know I mean like a Spielberg movie doesn't do that usually actually like he's just like we'll just have the title and like pretty regular font. You know what I mean like this is like this movie is branding itself.

[02:05:22] Yeah and of course then is giving itself a sequel without even knowing if it's going to get one right at the end you know what I mean like there is that weird swagger to this movie that I love totally totally.

[02:05:33] And that stuff helps you know in the first 20 minutes that something bigger is coming that this is just sad sack yeah yeah totally totally. So now the pieces are in play. Yep and there's the big sequence which is just fun big sequences fun.

[02:05:50] It's great it's great to watch him take care of Biff.

[02:05:53] Yeah and as you said like the weird he gives you such good little glimpses of insecurity when he fucks up a joke but there's also the confidence with which he barrels into every saying he doesn't actually know all the make like a tree and leaf things.

[02:06:09] But you're also setting up Biff.

[02:06:11] As I said I do love how in this movie Biff is just like well he's my dad shitty boss and back then he was my dad shitty bully and that the back to the future franchise especially when you expand into shit like the comics and the video games in the

[02:06:26] series Biff becomes like this mythic force in the universe like whoever the Tannen is in any time period is somehow the embodiment of all the worst qualities that person could have the most oppressive.

[02:06:39] This is why I whatever the extended universe has never attracted me but that's funny I love all that shit.

[02:06:48] I'm obviously more invested in back to the future as like a universe but Gale I think also has always like shepherded all that expanded stuff and overseeing it but also very clearly communicates like the three movies are the thing.

[02:07:02] Everything else we do could fit in with it but it's really fun thought experiments it's alternate timelines it's what if and so I like that stuff it doesn't feel like it makes the three movies any less sacrosanct or make them sacrosanct you know what I'm saying.

[02:07:18] And no you're right but I mean that's why I'm happy that's how I feel about all this stuff I'm like does it is it actually part of this or not they're like oh not really I'm like okay well then I don't care.

[02:07:27] That's I like that they're less precious about that's I feel what Star Wars totally alright the final sequence it's a dance Griffin the dance slash you know clock tower.

[02:07:41] I want to say well what okay to the point you were making that for most movies like with this concept it would be 45 minutes of Sierra know that would be the main meat of the movie this essentially has two scenes.

[02:07:54] I mean you have the scene back at the mall shop where he tries to get his father deliver the speech and it's the Lorraine you're my density thing right that doesn't work that the sir that's the sir no attempt doesn't work abandoned right.

[02:08:07] Get right with Biff yeah the life vest joke is so fucking good all those jokes are so good tab free yeah. Our tab put on my tab Pepsi free all that shit yeah like all that stuff is fun.

[02:08:22] That of course leads to the Biff creation of the skateboard chase sequence and if getting manure so fucking hard which feels like a very Ben move I imagine when like script IRS agents come to audit you you'll you'll fucking manure them Ben.

[02:08:41] I would love to do that hell yeah it's like he literally got shit on. Well once again I'm not saying that the IRS should look into Ben's finances they're entirely above board and he doesn't have chemicals in his garage.

[02:08:53] No I do not and yeah the L.C. I formed everything is you know good good. But like that any of the vehicle sequences the car stuff the skateboard stuff it as Bob Raphelson would say cuts like butter and it's partly because.

[02:09:11] The makeup is so good at the visual math of this stuff but also they talk about the benefit of them choosing to shoot on the back lot is as they were assembling stuff it was very easy for Zemeckis to do pick ups because that location was always there so they were continuing to shoot pick ups.

[02:09:29] Yeah that makes sense makes sense he'd watch an assembly and he go oh you know be cool there should be sparks on the skateboard and then they would go back two weeks later and shoot just the sparks and then cut that back in and go what else could we use so all these sequences where it's like.

[02:09:44] You know the final race of trying to hit 88 miles per hour where you're like this road is so small there's no way he has this much room to drive but they're through.

[02:09:54] Through blocking through flaming through editing through sort of using movie logic and time they're able to convey to you the sense that there's enough room to traverse here.

[02:10:05] But the scene there's there's that scene where he tries to give him the talk and there's the scene where he goes to George's like backyard and he's giving him the big pep talk with like the clothes dryers stuff like that right.

[02:10:17] Like but that's pretty much all you have of that you have the scene obviously where after he wakes up in the bedroom with the Calvin Klein where he has dinner with Lorraine's family but that's his only big Lorraine scene like the movie is so good at giving you just the bare minimum you need of that because what it really wants is to save its final 50 minutes for the two things that matter the dance and getting back to the future.

[02:10:41] Yes. Now. Of course the film's ultimate story device for how George and Lorraine get together is that if straight up locks Lorraine in a car and fucking attacks her and it's.

[02:11:02] Another thing that I feel like is so it's so often remarked on now as like it's crazy that that happens and back to the future.

[02:11:11] And I'm always like it's 100% the point that that happens not it's not like some weird like 80s thing where like oh well you'd never see that in a movie today I'm like again this all feels part of the whole fabric of like this isn't just like you know a teenage bully who shoves you in your locker or whatever like he's a mole.

[02:11:31] Spiritual evil. Yes.

[02:11:34] Well okay the spiritual evil might be that's what comes later but I'm just saying like it's like Zemeckis is like these fucking people run the world in the 80s now and these guys are creeps and yes like they're awful like you know he's a he's a bad person and he's doing a terrible thing.

[02:11:50] Right. And George finds his inner courage and that's that's great and he confronts him and like that's great and it totally lands as a moment for the audience of like yeah of course now they love each other.

[02:12:01] Like great like problem solved it's got that Zemeckis group Goldberg like great the circle has been closed but it also just I love how you're like for this episode you're just like laying out everything that works about back to the future and I'm just occasionally bursting into be like

[02:12:17] And it's the point is that America is shitty and horny and bad totally like that. Like that's like my take. Yeah right.

[02:12:23] Could I be critical just the only thing is the violence right it's like you know a punch is like Indiana Jones right it sends them flying kind of thing.

[02:12:32] He like pulls up his fist and wax him and that's that you're right it's suddenly very comic booky or whatever you know it's very clean. It does that a little bit with sexual assault.

[02:12:42] That's what I'm saying that's the only thing I do feel like seeing it now I'm like oh god. It would be presented differently now and assumes I'm a guy I'm speaking from the perspective of being a guy.

[02:12:55] I have a big sort of opposition immediate sort of revulsion to movies that I feel like use sexual assault as too easy of a plot point especially when it's like catalyst for revenge or things like that.

[02:13:10] I think there's something to the fact that the movie is about avoiding that that it's about preventing that and that I also think it doesn't feel like it's treating it flippantly.

[02:13:22] Like I understand what you're saying Ben but I also feel like there's the moment when and you have to remember that George thinks that it's going to be Marty pretending to do this and that he's going into a play acting situation in which he's having to save her from something with zero steaks.

[02:13:39] I think the moment that gives this weight for me and makes me feel like it is not treated insensitively is George opens the door. He sees Biff turn around with the look of like don't you fucking dare. Yeah, you're mean you're a bug to me right. Yeah, right.

[02:13:57] He locks eyes with Lorraine and Lorraine gives him a look of actual fear of actual dread and panic and and Thompson conveys the weight of the situation. Of if you walk away because you're afraid of getting punched in the face, I will be assaulted.

[02:14:15] And that's the moment for me that makes it work that doesn't make it feel like it's just plot maneuvering.

[02:14:23] You know that it has some basis and respect for the characters that is treated as this is going to be a horrific thing not too cartoonish even if Biff is so silly. I think she gives it the proper amount of weight.

[02:14:39] And also defines George as a character that it's like as much as this guy is so capable of being put under the thumb by society, like there's a little deleted scene that's small but really fun after you see Biff chewing out George in the present day as his boss where this guy knocks on the door and he's like hey George my girl is selling a peanut

[02:15:04] breadel for the girl scouts you want to buy like 30 crates of it and he's like yeah I guess so.

[02:15:11] And then he's like see honey I told you we only have to go to one door this guy will buy the whole supply and then you see him it's still in the movie pouring up.

[02:15:18] He pours the peanut biddle and when you see that in the movie you're just like is this guy just a fucking child like why is he just eating peanut breadel out of a bowl.

[02:15:25] It works as a dead end but it speaks to their idea of just like this guy has never stood up for anything he does whatever anyone tells him to do.

[02:15:32] And the fact that Biff's looks him in the eye and says walk away McFly and that he has a moral code as much as he's a coward he has looked Lorraine in the eyes and he will not be able to live with the conscience of knowing he let this happen.

[02:15:47] And that is what defines him you know at this point I think truly the thing that motivates the punch because it's a real punch and he knows the real repercussions could be in store for him is not trying to impress Lorraine because he wants to be a real man.

[02:16:02] It's a dance it's that he doesn't want to allow this to happen. I think it is a selfless decision for him which is why she falls for him and why this is a defining moment that ripples throughout this character's entire life

[02:16:17] and changes his behavior for the rest of his life. Right but it is stupid that Marty plays Johnny Begood and then Chuck Berry's cousin calls Chuck Berry on the phone that part's stupid. And Gail and Zemeckis write it off as sometimes a cigar is just a cigar shit.

[02:16:36] I think they're right. I am sure they did not intend to suggest that the origin of rock music was Marty McFly. They're doing a cute joke. It's fine.

[02:16:47] I get the function of it is a cute joke. And I also get that like let's end this movie with a fucking concert of you know a musical number. This is a high school movie.

[02:16:59] They'll kiss and then we'll have the clock tower sequence. I get that it's just it's just fine to mock it now it's it's worthy of mockery.

[02:17:06] Totally and of course and also your cousin Marvin is also worthy of my career. It's just funny. That's all the best lines of all time.

[02:17:14] Right. The semiotics of the implications of the rock and roll thing are fucked. I don't think it was conscious but I also think obviously we're living in a time right now.

[02:17:24] We must market just mockery. We don't need to turn it into a think piece. It's just we can not turn it into a thing.

[02:17:31] I mean like it's not serious. It's like it's not it's not serious. So stupid. No. No. Right. The offensiveness of it is the flippinness of it but it's not deeply offensive to me.

[02:17:42] And I also think when you have a movie like this that is so poignant and is largely perfect the things like that like this is a movie where we analyze every aspect of what the movie is saying and why it works and why it doesn't.

[02:17:54] So obviously when you have a film that people care enough about then you start to get into like so what is it actually saying in the same way that Crispin Glover one of the many things he fought was a mech is about that led to him not being in the second one was that he hated that George was successful at the end of the movie that he felt like it was this very capitalist thing.

[02:18:12] And so I think that's the message of like well now he's rich at the end of the movie and they have this very upscale suburban lifestyle and that shows that everything's good rather than him being happy because of his own internal life.

[02:18:23] Right. It's fair to draw like to be mad. I get what he means because it's like right the answer shouldn't be like happiness and confidence means you'll end up wealthy because that does feel like a very sort of Reagan E 80s like you know message to end on.

[02:18:40] And so Mech says that's a conscious joke. That's satirical for him. Right. It's like their happy ending is this very 80s hollow version of a happy ending. I think the rock thing doesn't have any point is behind it.

[02:18:51] It's just cute for them. It's it's that he gets that dumb fucking Toyota truck. Right. Like that's that's the ultimate prize. Right. Right.

[02:19:00] That's that's a little bit cynical on their part. The Johnny B Good stuff isn't and the cousin Marvin thing for me is just like I respect cousin Marvin that they're like look we're not going to take five minutes to explain how he links up to Marvin Barry do it as an elegantly as possible

[02:19:18] but get it done as quickly as possible. It's me your cousin Marvin Marvin Barry beautiful. I forget who it is but I have a friend. Junior.

[02:19:27] Well see I always thought it was Harry Waters Junior but maybe it was another member of the band but would always start off his class in college as a professor showing people that scene.

[02:19:38] I'm not sure. All I know is that Harry Waters Junior originated the Belize role in Angels in America. I think before it was on Broadway before Jeffrey Wright played. Yes.

[02:19:49] Maybe in San Francisco or wherever. No. Well I don't know. I think it originally played in San Francisco. Yeah. But anyway that's just funny anyway that yeah those are his two big roles.

[02:20:01] And it's also you want to see Marty have a slightly personal win. You know like because you've seated the rock stuff from the beginning. It's like you want to see him do something really fun.

[02:20:15] That's just kind of for his own enjoyment where the stakes of the rest of the movie are like the space time continuum because otherwise those small personal wins are for the other characters.

[02:20:26] I mean there's also in the movie there are these stakes of like oh no what if they don't kiss like they need a song to dance to and the band can't go on break right now like but like you just it's like this has been such a rock around the clock time type of movie like

[02:20:41] and on a dance number that's great. Give us give us a musical number to you know right as like an 11 o'clock number that's that's great and then the clock tower sequence which is out of their just in time he has the final scene.

[02:20:55] I will don't jump over to it immediately because the final moment with him and George and Lorraine is really nice.

[02:21:02] Okay sure yeah when he says goodbye to them and they say like will we ever see you again a bet on it and then he has to bring up before he leaves the like if you ever have a kid and he accidentally breaks.

[02:21:15] Yeah it's a fire lights the carpet on fire right yeah.

[02:21:21] Right right but it's also it's like everyone has those memories of like if I could go back in time this is the thing I would fix it was this one time I really fucked up in my parent's eyes you know like everyone has an incident of like a parents disappointment that burns into your memory that you wish you could undo and that's his final lasting

[02:21:39] thing but also like you genuinely believe that George and Lorraine like each other at that point their chemistry is actually good in that final scene. For sure.

[02:21:49] So then you go to the clock tower where Doc Brown has already been trying to set things up while Marty's at the dance he changes back he's trying to rig everything up because of course what they need is the bolt of 1.21 gigawatts

[02:22:02] mispronounced of electricity to power the car to get it at the moment with 88 miles per hour it's just such a clean visual with like the that wire arm and where the wire between the poles is and just like these two things need to touch at the moment that he's going at this speed it's this number

[02:22:22] and also the lightning hits and the fact that you've set it up so perfectly with the clock tower with the flyer that he gets at the beginning of the movie where he has to write down Jennifer's grandmother's phone number like all that stuff is just so well seated

[02:22:36] and they talked about like the nuclear testing site if that's where they travel forward in time it becomes a bigger event right like nuclear tests were a big event there weren't a bunch of them and they would have been more part of like American history versus this being something

[02:22:55] that was big for this town but small in the grand scheme of America so the idea that it's like local legend right we know exactly it's perfect when this one time well you know what time it's going to hit because it like freezes the clock it's all great I love it

[02:23:13] I love it I love it's it's what I love about this sequence is that one thing needs to happen it's all set up and so the sequence is just about stretching that as far as you can go like that's what's so delightful about what Zemeckis is doing like

[02:23:28] every obstacle you're doing yeah oh come on oh you know like oh no now the things tangled oh no you know like just just pure playing the audience like a violin stuff just you know you can't help but have your heart in your mouth even though you know of course it's going to work out the movies ending

[02:23:47] of course this will work out but Lloyd the little red herring will come later that's yes so good right he's very funny physical like yes his super exaggerated shocked faces the way he plays all the beats of the things on his leg like he's sort of doing like Harold Lloyd Buster Keaton stuff I'm not just saying Harold Lloyd because he's hanging from a clock

[02:24:06] but like you know that feeling of the high wire like his name is also Christopher Lloyd that's very just pointing that out yeah but but the stakes of every small thing where the cable is all that shit and you know there half of it is like inserts where they put that pedestal on a sound stage but half of it especially in the wide shots you can see that he's actually at the top of that set and he's hanging from that high and he is like even though I have wires and harnesses

[02:24:35] and whatever he's like if I fell it was really going to hurt and also there's like lightning there's a wind machine there's thunder yeah Michael is like very far for me I didn't have to act at all like that the stakes were there in acting

[02:24:54] so small stakes in a way that's just so charming I know this is an obvious thing to say but it's true isn't it you know like but better yes in a way that I don't think this film would work if it was the nuclear testing site where it's like oh no it wouldn't know of course not all that shit just sounds like you know it's like strip it out strip it out like you know which is what this movie did just just take all that

[02:25:17] the only reason that didn't happen was because of budget it literally only happened got canned out because of budget maybe even only once they decided to reach I mean five weeks not to dispute the purpose of our podcast but it's kind of the argument against the blank check right like if the argument for the constraints like you find these creative ways to work around stuff obviously

[02:25:39] it is not that this argument is the other spot guys just pro blank check exactly it's just interested in blank checks but it is it's both it's both this is one of those movies that like unlike something like fury road I bring up because it's a recent example of a movie that is like this guy knew exactly what he wanted to make

[02:25:58] he had it like in his drawer for 20 years and he just willed into existence and it was the exact version of what he had in his head to the degree that even the actors working on it couldn't see what they were doing versus this movie which is half that type of clear vision they'd work so hard on the screenplay they

[02:26:16] had done like 150 drafts it's so well honed but also everything they had to surrender ended up being the right choice and they adapted really really well it's a perfect balance of the two in a way that I think movies like this often are you know not getting a working

[02:26:34] job like all these things where it's the combination of the right people at the top of their skills cresting in their ability combined with circumstances outside the control that forced them to be resourceful and that sort of survival instinct

[02:26:48] and leading to greater creativity and yes it's like we see the grid the distance is so short but they make it feel like Marty is driving this extreme distance like doc is never going to get the cable plugged in time and when it happens it is so thrilling

[02:27:05] incredibly satisfying it's such a good effect to I love the visual effect like the noise the crackling just the way everything you know and that's sort of like they would have it's like they're reversing an explosion or something like they had that kind of like smoky thing that kind of goes backwards great

[02:27:22] and not to sound like one of these guys but it's a perfect example of I don't know what you mean I'm just excited by whatever mainstream media telling us no I was not to sound like one of these guys but this is one of those things where if this was done 10 years later and they had CGI at their disposal the effects would be less good

[02:27:44] having greater options for how you could render the time travel would be overdoing it the fact that like they're not going through the circuits of time the fact that it's just the combination of the sounds the way the lightning crackles around it all that sort of stuff the ice which you see the first time but then because it was such a painly

[02:28:03] as to do every successive time they limit how cold the car is when it's coming out but for me like an incredible some extra scale story choice that shows how good their instincts were emotionally at this point in time is that unlike the other things like unlike traveling from Marty's

[02:28:21] to POV from 85 into 55 when Marty disappears when the trail of flames is left they stay with Doc Brown and you have that moment that for me is like when they should have handed Christopher fucking Lloyd the Oscar I get why they didn't it's the kind of performance that's easy to write off as fluff at the time especially because it's comedic in a big rod movie but the big

[02:28:45] side shot of the completely empty town square with the flames behind him realizing that he's just done it that he's created time travel and they play the softer version of the main Sylvester theme and he starts dancing in the middle of the street is so thoroughly touching to me it's that

[02:29:06] thing I fucking love it's like Billy Elliot finally dancing where it's just like this person who just had one dream in their life against all odds pulled it off they did the thing that everyone told them they couldn't do I just think that sequence is so well done and Lloyd's performance is so exuberant and genuine and he kind of dials down the cartoonishness for that one moment because you actually want to care about this guy

[02:29:31] and feel like this is an important win for him and you want him to live there's all the folder all the letter and you know like you know all that I can't look why yeah I'm gonna start with damage the space

[02:29:48] would you say that people letters that say don't open until like 20 23 may 20 29 right I recommend everybody do it and then you don't even have to write anything that's that good inside but just having someone to have to hold on to it yeah right but

[02:30:06] just right it's okay in terms of that like ephemeral Ethan hawk welcome to earth like movie star line reading shit I don't think there's a better moment of that than Michael J Fox going like oh god if only have more time

[02:30:23] more time Marty what are you talking about you're in a time machine is so fucking good and that's a hard moment to pull but the idea that he's gonna like fuck with it that he's already written a letter which Doc Brown has ripped up that he goes back a little bit earlier

[02:30:39] but the car won't start he has to run he makes it just there in time a thing having seen this movie 30 times I had never noticed before is when they go back and they repeat him running to the mall the signage is now it's the lone pine mall as opposed to the twin pine mall

[02:30:55] it's the first sign that he's altered the timeline in some way funny very subtle because up until now everything else feels like it's large with the same also hill valley it's a funny name funny name hill valley

[02:31:09] funny yeah you know yeah and I love the inner history of hill valley as a town I love their sort of legacy all the old tricks and power right all the stuff they kind of sneak in right they build that stuff out well in the next two films

[02:31:24] but he runs of course he's just a second too late he can't avoid the the the can't stop Doc Brown from getting shop when he runs up Doc has the bulletproof vest and the tape together letter which he's held on for 30 years and what a nice touching moment everything worked out great

[02:31:45] and now what what the hell I'll play faster

[02:31:49] it's it's right it's beautiful that's like I don't know sometimes you want to do the emotional thing we're only human as much as he tries to be like I'm this crazy mad scientist and time is the most important thing to abide by it's also like you're my friend Marty you don't want me to die I'm going to stay alive

[02:32:06] you need it to be that you need it to be yeah I although I'm and maybe this is for Malini to I can't remember the Malay I haven't seen the Malayne back to future bit in a while but like it is while the he's like well where bulletproof vest they can't shoot me anywhere

[02:32:20] like is Marty specifically like yeah but anyway it doesn't matter you need it to be that it's Marty triumphantly running them over or whatever because yes I don't know that would just feel clean in a way that would be kind of right like yeah I agree you need the weird friendship

[02:32:34] it's movie logic yes it's perfect it's to give me a letter it must be important right but also it would if you had Marty go back and this time he's wearing like a full Jeremy Renner bomb disarming suit

[02:32:49] you don't have the reveal of okay well wait a second that would be funny though for back to the future if you was wearing yeah he's wearing a hurt locker suit that would be good yeah you can't shoot me anyway

[02:33:04] you need the reversal of the same events yeah and I guess probably Marty wrote in the letter your chest roughly from here to here yeah it's basically kind of like right and consider it like a strike zone it's kind of shoulders to hips

[02:33:18] right like that's what you want to protect I didn't get a full look at your wounds but it looked like that was the major area and then yes of course as you mentioned right now they're rich

[02:33:31] now now Biff is an obsequious you know the car detailer or whatever right you know yeah he's getting bossed around Chris and Glover is playing it like almost like American psycho or whatever he's got this like weird kind of like

[02:33:49] looking his eyes they're like absolutely the hardest thing to get Crispin Glover to do like he didn't want to wear it I don't think he didn't want to play those scenes he didn't want to play a normal guy like all that stuff he hated it

[02:34:01] hated it he doesn't seem normal though he just seems weird in a new way which is I'm glad they threaded the needle on that Crispin got to do his weird thing Zemeckis got his plot point like whatever

[02:34:13] yeah and I think it's it's like an artificially neat ending which only works because they undercut it with Doc Brown coming back at the end which of course was not meant to be a sequel set up was meant to just be a funny joke of like what could possibly

[02:34:29] now happen with time travel open I'm sure they were like they weren't anti a sequel right but certainly it's not like back to future to where they're making the movies back to back and they know there's going to be a sequel

[02:34:41] I think they literally functions as a just a clever ending yeah but they also say that like when the sequel was announced they were like oh fuck we now have to do the future like we made this promise that we weren't thinking we were ever going to have to make good on

[02:34:58] but of course you do the future come on Zemeckis what are you gonna go you know come on I mean well of course the mech is so horny to do a Western and we will talk about that but

[02:35:07] you know the future you know when I was a kid I was like show me the future that's what I wanted to see where you got like visor glasses and all this and it still has ended up being one of the most sort of like

[02:35:22] sort of like I don't know lasting visions of the future I still feel like people relate what we have gotten and what we have gotten to that notion of 2015 I feel like it's cited all the time you know

[02:35:36] what it predicted correctly what it was I haven't seen right no 100% I haven't seen part to probably since I was like 12 or 13 years old great

[02:35:48] so I'm very excited to rewatch it because like both the sequels honestly haven't seen them in a very very long time very very interested to see how they're going to know yeah

[02:35:58] because like when I saw this for the first time I knew there were three of them and when they released it on VHS after the car flies off after roads were going we don't need roads and the test audience runs

[02:36:10] stands up and starts she's ending on your best line outrageous very smart yeah and his line reading I mean the timing of the flipping down of the glasses all that stuff and the visual effect everything yeah when they and then smash to back in time back in time

[02:36:28] when they re-released it or when they released it on VHS knowing that the sequel is going to happen they put to be continued at the end of the first one

[02:36:36] so I saw it for the first time with to be continued I feel like a lot of people in our generation saw for the first time with to be continued

[02:36:41] so I always viewed it as like well they knew they knew they knew watching and trying to like view it out of context pretending that the sequel isn't a given

[02:36:52] that they didn't know what they were doing it's also just a funny reversal to be like well they solved everything everything's neat everyone's happy the present is great and then Doc Brown being like no time travels on the table which means everything's getting fucked with everything's bad

[02:37:08] and I'm going to spend the rest of my life trying to iron out every small interpersonal issue you know like the McFly family now the ripple effect of just like oh my son gets arrested I need to fix that

[02:37:21] it's fun it's funny I love it I love this movie on top of everything else it's crazy that both of the Huey Louis songs in this movie are like bangers and were hits

[02:37:33] like there's that weird 80s thing where you had giant blockbuster movies that also had big artists writing like number one hit singles the luck of all of those things lining up is pretty wild to me because that rarely if ever happens these days

[02:37:48] should we play the box office game you should play a box office game did this movie do well

[02:37:56] it did do quite well in fact it was one of the bigger movies of its year in May two hundred and twelve million dollars domestically I believe some of that might be from a

[02:38:06] re-release yes certainly was I can't remember it ended around two hundred million and I think then made a little more in a re-release sort of

[02:38:14] it made you know he mungus amounts of money it opened number one at the box office eleven million dollars on July fourth weekend it was a fourteen million four day weekend that's all great now Griffin as you may remember this is the week before

[02:38:27] Thunderdome oh right okay the other thing I just want to say is that test screening was so big and Universal knew it was going to be such a hit

[02:38:40] right it was supposed to be August so they like had to do essentially twenty four hour post production hire two editors four sound editors like all this sort of stuff

[02:38:51] the movie was released in theaters nine weeks after they wrapped filming like it's crazy how rushed this movie was and a couple months before teen wolf as you wanted to one month before

[02:39:05] clarify yeah I think yeah which I had always thought that it was like teen wolf a hit but embarrassing this is the thing that legitimized his film career when in fact it is that like teen wolf was largely a hit because Michael J. Fox was just fucking running the table

[02:39:21] like kids who had already seen back to the future three times were like there's another Michael J. Fox movie place basketball he's a wolf yeah but for him it was embarrassing yeah and done it

[02:39:32] sure number one the box office back to the future number two the box office so all of these movies are in the box office for the Thunderdome box office is all I'm saying except for number five back to the future is number one for eleven out of the next twelve weeks

[02:39:48] pretty cool yeah people wanted to see it number two to Western back in time yeah secretly or out in the open out in the open just a brazen western

[02:40:01] no no no like a serious western from a very serious out of a Josie well no but my correct director I love your 70s drifter I'm forgetting the 80s you're doing the 70s ones it's it's an 80s Clint western I believe it is his only western in the 80s

[02:40:22] and it's very good movie I like it hmm it's really stripped down it's really it's you always forget this I feel like we this came up the other time I think I always forget this movie exists what's the title of this movie it's called pale writer

[02:40:39] right fuck right yes I always forget to do this I've never seen it it's good yeah it's a good clip movie number three all right sounds like me when I'm on the subway hey hey

[02:40:53] right or sounds like me when I'm on the subway yeah because you're pale you write the subway who are used to at least before number three of the box stuff is a big sequel to a big movie in 1985 it's not there really was cop to that's too soon no

[02:41:14] no cop in fact came out this year it is it a number two the number two and is it a comedy is an action franchise is actually Rambo first blood part to exactly there we go exactly

[02:41:31] number fourth box office we brought it up it was an Oscar winning film this year it won in an acting category is that why we brought it up yes we mentioned its Oscar win yes exactly it's not

[02:41:46] Prizes honor no it is cocoon cocoon another hit I mean these are all big hits big hit must have satisfying for Zemeckis after getting fired off of cocoon to fucking fold to

[02:42:01] get that cocoon did well but right certainly nothing like back to the future yes no number five is a movie I just I know I don't know it all it is from a major director but I've never heard of it how to describe

[02:42:19] it's a jungle movie it's like a guy searching for I believe his son in the rain forest or something his son got like maybe kidnapped or taken in by like you know native people in the rain

[02:42:38] for a star no it's not I mean he's an I'll tell you the actor powers booth like you know certainly an actor of the 80s but not a star yeah no you're never going to get this it's a John Borman movie so you know a big director

[02:42:55] it's called the emerald forest yep no truly that's never I that's heard of that money I didn't know it and like John Borman is someone we could ostensibly do on this podcast he's not high on our list maybe but like you know Excalibur right like hope and glory those are these are

[02:43:15] those are real blank checking movies but this one I don't know that's it you've also got I don't know St. Elmo's fire the goonies Fletch another Spielberg and blend yeah Fletch is working overtime of course

[02:43:30] I'm of course crazy's honor I can listen to the Fletch soundtrack a lot recently I don't know why you've been working overtime you've been listening overtime I certainly have been working overtime I feel like I've been working

[02:43:41] under time these days maybe I'm trying to feel more inspired to put in the extra hours on I feel like I'm working overtime why don't you do some of my work well we've got to even this out yeah I really want to

[02:43:51] write something pieces about what's going on in the area right now it's really exciting I feel great about everything you know how I like once a year I start saying that I'm retired and I'm never going to work again and I'm

[02:44:05] you do say that often yes once every two years maybe I really feel at this time I really feel like I don't know if I'm ever gonna I'm just going to point out that this is not a moment to predict one's future this is

[02:44:20] that's why I'm saying I feel this way I'm not even just feeling like no one likes me I'm feeling like what would it take to get me back on a set again right right right I don't know you know good next year we could be great hey you never know that's me that's my role in this yeah I want to start a podcast like election profit makers where

[02:44:45] you bet against next year being good and you bet for it being good and somehow we figure out a way to tie financial rewards to that because maybe I can get rich while being miserable yeah that sounds fun like Ben do you think that's a good podcast people listen to that

[02:45:02] wait where did Ben go? Ben's fully gone do you hear that David? no no in the distance I hear something there's like a I think he left his mic on there's some sort of like whooshing sound or something

[02:45:19] sorry hey what's up guys I just skateboarded into a podcast you know hanging on a car that is the sign that we are officially done which is very exciting for us we finally checked that box

[02:45:39] Ben asked me to set that up I was not aware that he was going to for the listeners at home kneel on top of a rolling office chair and pretend that it was a skateboard I thought he put his feet on a skateboard

[02:45:51] he actually have a skateboard at home no he pretended to skateboard on a chair well this is back to the future episode three hour episode of blank check but it was back to the future baby

[02:46:03] it's not three hours it's under three hours and David it had to be this is a humongous movie but it's not a long movie the next three movies are small yes

[02:46:17] it is even a little bigger and I'll say for people who are upset that we didn't do things like merchandise spotlight or the theme park rides or any of that sort of stuff we have two other back to the future movies to cover

[02:46:27] I promise I will cover some of that appendix stuff in there but this one I really want to focus on a dumb movie yeah yep for sure back to the future it's a movie David it had to be we couldn't change our past

[02:46:41] even though the future is not yet written this episode had to be 230 plus it had to be it was always written on the newspaper and it never changed all right but in general I promise the show is about to get tighter

[02:46:57] and I promise that to you David and I'm saying it on microphone to be held accountable folks thank you all for listening yeah guys just a warning for listeners we're gonna try and tighten this show up it's got a little whatever slack losing our mind

[02:47:11] zoom started being a thing that made it impossible to podcast for an hour without feeling exhausted and now it's made it so that somehow every episode becomes eight hours while also being exhausted everything is bad I'm betting on 2021 also being bad and thank you all for listening

[02:47:27] please remember to review and subscribe thanks to Antrigu for our social media thank you to Layon Montgomery for being our Marty McFly and jamming out with that cool theme song Joe Bowen and Pat Rounds for our artwork go to BlankiesDirect.com for some real nerdy shit

[02:47:41] go to our Shopify page for merch new stuff will be added old stuff will be coming back in stock and feel free to always hit us up on social media at Blank Check Pod if you want to suggest things you'd like to see us make merch wise in

[02:47:55] the future next week a little movie called Who Framed Roger Rabbit with the Doughboys Nickwise, Mike Mitchell it's a crossover people were speculating which episode they were going to be on it's that one talking doom and David the episode is done you can relax no end always

[02:48:23] I think peace about it any of the exciting things happening in the entertainment world I just love anytime something happens complain about my job, I'm lucky to have a job you have a great job but also anytime you text me we're texting back and forth

[02:48:39] and then you go like fuck wait I'm gonna have to write about this aren't I you're gonna have to call with a take on stuff again not complaining, have a nice job my editors are nice and of course I was happy to write about Oscar rules

[02:48:53] yes the rules you love the rules and as always doc! Marty Marty Marty