Boyz n the Hood with Aisha Harris

[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David, Don't know what to say or to expect, All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check

[00:00:19] Any fool with a dick can make a baby, but only a real man can record a podcast Yeah, definitely true. Thank you Griffin I mean there were words to live by. I feel like podcasters overall as a breed are renowned for their maturity, right? Right, definitely.

[00:00:42] There is a grave solemn responsibility Right and it's so hard to do one. It's not like anyone can make a podcast

[00:00:49] It's very, it's very, very difficult to do. You have to be so skill. You have to, I mean you have to do it with a very steady hand. You know, podcasts that can't be indulgent. They can't be formless. They can't be overly long and rambling.

[00:01:05] You know you really have to record a podcast with great caution and consideration Thank you Furious Gryff Furious Gryff. It is, I did not put together that he started out his career with Furious Styles and then went too fast and too furious

[00:01:23] He did go too, later. That's true Right, it's just nice that he, because he didn't get to direct the first Fast and Furious movie Because Furious is in his wheelhouse, right? That he gets to do a Fast and Furious movie Yes, absolutely.

[00:01:36] Because I imagine he goes in for the meeting on too fast and they go we don't know it might be tough for someone to just go straight to two without doing one And he's like, no, no, I did one Furious Right, exactly. I can do two Furious

[00:01:48] Who are we talking about Griffin? We're talking about John Singleton, ladies and gentlemen, one of those prestigious directors in American history I mean he still is the youngest Academy Award nominee for Best Director ever True

[00:02:05] He also was nominated for Screenplay and I guess Nicky Reed beats him on that record but otherwise he must still be the second youngest, right? Funny. Oh, I didn't think about, of course, Nicky Reed, remember that?

[00:02:19] Yeah, but there can't be anyone else younger than him who's nominated, right? I don't know. Maybe a child wrote a screenplay and won an Oscar. I don't know every nomination

[00:02:30] I'm sorry, I did forget that Green Book was written by five men in a trench coat, five little boys Stacked up on top of each other in a trench coat Trying to order a pizza and they accidentally wrote a screenplay Hello, I'm Nick Valowonga I'm a grownup

[00:02:45] Wait, why is she not? Why am I not? She didn't get nominated Griffin. Nicky Reed not nominated No, they never nominated 13 for Screenplay Okay, so then Singleton probably has the screenplay record as well, I'm guessing Now I'm gonna look it up but keep talking

[00:02:58] I was so certain that 13 got the nomination. Interesting It didn't. It got shot out. Only Holly Hunter Yeah John Singleton, the youngest man, the youngest director, period, ever nominated for an Academy Award The first African American ever nominated for Best Director

[00:03:16] A massive blockbuster success, a cultural tidal wave and it's his first movie He's right out of film school You know, David, it's been said that this is Blank Check, a podcast about filmographies Directors who have massive success early on in their careers

[00:03:32] And are given a series of Blank Checks Make whatever crazy passion projects they want And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby And a few people represent that thesis more than this guy Absolutely, he blank checked out of the gate in a way

[00:03:47] Yeah, I mean, yeah Absolutely and That's why we've always talked about him Not only had a Blank Check career-wise but kind of became a celebrity You know? I do know. I'm furiously trying to figure out who is the youngest screenplay nominee ever

[00:04:04] And I guess like the age of writers is less like public Maybe that's why this is harder but carry on, carry on Yeah, the age of writer sounds like an eighth transformer sequel A bad one What's the name of this mini-series?

[00:04:20] We haven't decided. I'm realizing right now we have not decided Is it May's series? See, I thought you would just have something On the films of John Singleton I didn't think about Obviously we could call it Two Pod, Two Cast

[00:04:32] But then it sounds like an order of Fast and Furious Mini-series which is disrespectful to the rest of the man's work I think, yeah, Pod's in the cast I mean that's the obvious. The obvious is you do PODZ and the cast

[00:04:44] Because most of his movies have one, two, you know, one, two words They're short titles Right, and if we called it podcast we'd have to put parentheses underneath it Next to it to make it clear if it was the 70s version, the 2000 version or the 20

[00:04:59] Do you get the drill? Three shaft movies all have the same title The only deliation is the year How about Podetic Just Cast? Nope, nope, nope Alright, no takers I just, Ben, I want you to think about how difficult it was for you to say that right now

[00:05:22] It rolled right off the tongue I think it's called PODZ and the cast I think that's what this is called But I'm also going to introduce our guest and see if they have any alternating opinions You know her as a co-host of Pop Culture Happy Hour on NPR

[00:05:38] And a great critic in her own right in various places Folks, please welcome onto the show Yasha Harris Hello, hello, hello Pod's in the cast We didn't think about this. I think it has to be, right? Yeah, I mean PODDY BOY I don't know PODDY BOY is funny

[00:06:01] PODDY BOY What is he? But I might want to save that name for when I do my podcast about sitting on the potty That's like my own show, I'm going to do it some I have the answer and unsurprisingly the answer is

[00:06:14] John Singleton is the youngest nominee but can you tell me the youngest winner in best screenplay The youngest winner in best screenplay Let me ask you, are they also a director? These days they are But they weren't at the time No, they're also best known as an actor

[00:06:35] That was going to be my follow-up question It's Matt and Ben? Well, which? Oh, Matt They aren't identical twins, it's not Matt, it's Ben Affleck He's the youngest winner of original screenplay, he was 25 Now I have another follow-up here Joseph Mankiewicz is the youngest writing nominee ever

[00:06:59] Younger than Singleton, nominated at the age of 22 for writing Skippy The Jackie Cooper movie in 1931 So he's the youngest ever And Jackie Coogan is still the youngest acting nominee ever, right? Look, Griffin, don't make me look up more, I know he's young Wasn't it Kavanjane?

[00:07:20] Yeah, Kavanjane is, you know, there's been a lot of... I think Cooper's the youngest lead acting lead actor He was maybe the youngest male The thing with Kavanjane that's always interesting is That movie was like two years in post-production

[00:07:38] So there's like the year that it was shot that age When it played at Sundance and when she got nominated Is a three-year span She was nominated at age nine, much like Jackie Cooper Uh-huh As a matter of months then Right, exactly Yeah, she was six

[00:07:58] But I liked that it was the other Mank That is the actual youngest writer ever nominated Hot Mank, we all saw Mank There was regular Mank and then there was Hot Mank Yeah, yeah, one of them was Hot Do you think that was Fincher's pitch to Netflix?

[00:08:15] Like when they pitched the King Arthur reboot? They were like, ah, Mank, I don't know And he's like, don't worry, don't worry There's a Hot Mank too They're like it's a big family Eventually we'll be able to do the movie about Ben Mankowitz Hosting at the movies

[00:08:33] It's like two popes, it's like two Mank Yes, one is Hot, one is not But then also it's like, it's also like the young pope You know, it's like they were saying Like what if we could combine the two popes The new pope and the young pope

[00:08:46] With no popes They're all Mank's, yes Affleck the youngest winner, he was 25 years old Who's the oldest winner? It just happened The oldest winner was the King's Speech guy? No, it was James Ivory He won when he was 89 freaking years old

[00:08:59] For writing, call me by your name, remember? And more t-shirt with Timothy Chalamet's face on it I forgot that that one That one Yeah It was his sort of career Oscar He'd never won an Oscar Yeah, that's wild Pod's in the cast, Aisha's here

[00:09:14] We're talking boys in the hood We're talking John Singleton Is there anything else we need to set up? Yeah You have been a big proponent of this film Not that you're alone in that But I feel like you've written about it a lot of places

[00:09:29] I've seen you tweet about it very often You wrote the piece a couple years ago Of trying to establish the new Black Canon And wrote about how this movie needs to be Like regularly discussed as one of the big Directorial debuts of all time Absolutely Which it is

[00:09:45] And I think to some degree It's enduring success as like a mainstay of Cable You know, it's become one of those movies That people just watch over and over again on TV Has diminished in people's minds how much of A shockwave this was

[00:10:03] To come out of nowhere, you know From a dude just out of film school For sure I mean Cable was actually the first way that I Saw this movie Same here And I didn't Every time I rewatch it now From the beginning to the end

[00:10:17] I always forget about the first part of the movie Which is When they're kids Yeah, when they're kids When they're like There's the first 30 minutes or so Is, you know, Trey Styles As a young kid Tearing it up in class

[00:10:33] And then being sent to live with his dad And I always forget about that Because for whatever reason I always came into it on Cable in the middle Like usually by the time they were all adults And so But it's 30 minutes And then in

[00:10:47] I really think those first 30 minutes are so crucial To setting the scene for For the Furious Styles character For the relationship Between him and his mom I just think it's really, really great But I do think that the last third And I'm sure we'll get into this

[00:11:05] But the last third of the film is probably The best parts of the film Like it's the most consistently great I will promise you We will get into the last third We're not going to not talk about One-third of this movie, yeah Isn't there the whole thing

[00:11:20] Where they shot it in sequence And he's like I'm literally a better director By the end of the movie Yeah Like I was learning as I went essentially And like I feel like You can essentially watch me Become a more confident filmmaker As the movie goes Yeah

[00:11:34] It's pretty fascinating in that regard I mean so rarely is a film shot in sequence And so rarely is someone's first film Shot in sequence Where you are seeing that arc of someone Gaining Trust in their own storytelling skills You know as it goes on

[00:11:51] Um, I, yeah this is a good movie I Yeah, yeah it's a good movie I'm trying to remember I think I probably also first saw on Cable My first memory of this movie And this is slightly embarrassing What we were talking Oscars Is that in the mid 90s

[00:12:07] You may or may not remember There was, I must have been like Nine years old and watching the Oscars Christopher Reeve comes out He'd recently been injured He's in his wheelchair And he's, you know Everyone gives him a big ovation

[00:12:20] And my parents just sort of explained to me Like oh this is who this is And here's why this is, you know Like they're trying to lay out the information And he's like He gives the classic corn ball Kind of like the Oscar Hollywood is so good

[00:12:33] And they make movies about You know, socially relevant things And he's introducing a montage Do either of you remember this? Vaguely I would have been too young Yeah, right, fair enough I definitely didn't watch it live I've almost definitely watched it on YouTube In the last five years

[00:12:49] They play a montage And I'm sure if I saw this montage As a grown up I tried to find it But all those montages That are like, you know Scrubs from the internet Like I'm sure if I watch it now I'd be like

[00:12:58] This is usual sort of Oscar corn ball crap But when I was nine It blew me away And it has Ricky getting shot In it And like, Ricky! You know, like that's in it And I had never seen boys from the hood And I was like

[00:13:10] That looks like the craziest movie Like I was just like That movie looks like it shouldn't like Exist, it's so extreme I was like so My mind was so blown by it And I have never forgotten it And every time I watch boys in the hood

[00:13:23] I mean obviously it's an iconic scene But that was my first introduction Did Christopher Reeve Offer a spoiler warning? I was gonna say Spoiler, spoiler alert It was shocking I think that's why I was so shocked I was like Is that like at the end of the movie?

[00:13:41] I don't know I just remember it blowing my mind That's a Clark Kent-esque goof up That's not Superman baby Clark Kent spoils a movie for you by accident It is I was texting with Richard Lawson today Because he watches the You know, ceremonies for Bandy Fair every year

[00:13:57] And I was like Do you remember this? And he's like Yes, and he's like Why did Christopher Reeve And she's like I'm Christopher Reeve Obviously I've been through this terrible thing Luckily the Oscars make movies Like Philadelphia and Boys in the Hood Okay I mean that's sure

[00:14:13] It's so funny when you say that though Because it's like The two of you You write and speak about movies For a living And I work in this stuff And make more of a living Speaking about it now And all this stuff And now I feel like

[00:14:28] When they trawl out one of those like Montages I'm like Get the fuck over yourself No, montages are the best They're my favorite part I want to make this clear I love the montages I love the montages A back patty montage Can be a bit much

[00:14:43] But I do love a montage What I tend to roll my eyes at Are the speeches before the montage The exact Christopher Reeve thing of like You don't understand this is important The montage itself I'm always down for When they do the back patty intro

[00:14:57] It always makes me like Roll my eyes a little bit But when I was like fucking six I would go like yeah Movies are the most important things in the world The intros would make me tear up And I'd be like

[00:15:08] This is like four score in seven years ago People are gonna be remembering this speech For the rest of time Movies make a difference This is the power of cinema I love the power of cinema guys Look we love movies

[00:15:22] And I think I also probably did not see this movie In full for years Cause I probably only were seeing it on TV And it's like that I've also only seen like the first twenty minutes Of like hook once You know I only watched that shit on cable

[00:15:37] It's a long movie Such a long movie But it's so good I watched it recently And I forgot there's like a half hour Of him as a you know As a grown up before he gets to Neverland Not the best part of the movie No Rufio forever

[00:15:56] Well Rufio is really good Look we can't get into hook right now You have to come back for hook when we Eventually do hook Cause clearly there's just a lot to litigate Yes, yeah Can I introduce a new term

[00:16:06] I've thought about this in my head a couple times But I feel like I want to Make it officially part of our lexicon For movies like this Cause I also had seen this on cable Over the years but Out of order piecemeal

[00:16:21] And then I like kind of constructed it in my head Watching it tonight I realized I think this is the first time I properly sat down And just watched this movie From beginning to end with complete intentionality I think that form of watching a movie

[00:16:34] We should call it the clover field monster Cause you only see bits and pieces You never see the whole thing at one time It's like the parable of the elephant Or whatever You're like I've seen the whole thing I can put it together

[00:16:49] So I clover field monster this But yeah it was until I started watching this And especially that opening 30 minutes That I was like oh I've never really given this movie The full respect it deserves A fully focused viewing Not just flipping between a couple channels

[00:17:05] Or jumping in late Oh wow actually the last time I saw it before rewatching it For this podcast I saw it last in 2016 I think On the big screen And John Singleton was He was there he did a Q&A afterwards It would span past him

[00:17:25] I was like ooh I'm glad I got to get that in Before unfortunately he passed so Yeah It is also bizarre that he only died Two years ago Like he obviously died way too young But something about how long 2020 was I feel like he died five years ago

[00:17:43] Yeah When I looked up the date and was like That was 18 months ago it kind of blew my mind Yeah It was so weird when he died but it was also so I mean the arc of his career is so strange And that when he

[00:17:56] Sort of stops making movies You know Sort of you know I know he was still working on stuff Yeah Obviously he was working in television He was sort of talking about like Oh you know I'm working on a new movie etc

[00:18:07] But like it was like oh well yeah sure John Singleton He's been making movies forever and it's like No he was not that old Yeah it was 51 You know Yeah Of course not when he died but also just when he stopped making movies

[00:18:18] When he's not that old when abduction comes out He's the age that many people might start In the industry so you know what I mean And there's six years between abduction And four brothers you know I mean Right it's profound how big a career he had

[00:18:33] Considering how early we lost him And you know just sort of the arc You know the up and down of his career Like you know by the end he was more just doing Like genre films like After the earlier part right

[00:18:46] Yeah I was watching this thing on the 4k steel book Which I guess was for some anniversary It might have been released around the time When you saw the screening was it Was it an anniversary thing? Was it like a 25th or something?

[00:19:02] Yeah it would have been 2016 so that would have been The 25th anniversary yeah I think this was released around that time And they have a really good retrospective feature Where everyone was interviewed Where they get Cuba and Cuba and Neil Long And Morris Chestnut and John Singleton

[00:19:18] They're all speaking really can't Regina King I mean Lawrence Fishburne Obviously this was like such a Launching pad for so many careers Right and they're all sort of talking Like 25 years later the perspective they have How much they didn't realize what the movie was going to be

[00:19:36] At the time and how much they couldn't process the success Because it was such a whirlwind all that sort of stuff But Singleton said in it which I'm guessing was Record around 2015 or 2016 Like when I was young and I had this Predigious success and everyone viewed me as

[00:19:52] Like you know oh you're no tour You're the young black Orson Welles right This is what you're going to do You're going to make important issues movies And he kind of resented that because his dream Of his career was to have like some sort of

[00:20:06] Howard Hoxie very varied I can do every genre I can experiment A bunch of different things and then you look at his career And it's like he makes like the four Complete blank check movies right Like he makes Boys in the Hood poetic justice

[00:20:19] Higher learning Rosewood are the like I have a real story to tell He's fitting into the industry's Perception of what a John Singleton movie is And then it feels like he almost strategically is Like I need to do big blockbusters you know

[00:20:34] It's funny like outside of baby boy is the outlier And then in TV he starts to get back to like More dramatic roots but that I think he really wanted To show people that he could do different types of things

[00:20:45] And to a certain degree he then got stuck in it You know I guess I mean he's also He's the start of that 90s generation Of filmmakers who came up on Spielberg and You know Star Wars and blockbusters And like you know that that that I mean

[00:21:01] The other guys are gonna come a little later Because he started so young but like M. Night Shyamalan or I'm trying to think of Like the sort of big 90s breakout directors Well Tarantino I mean fits into this Yeah but yeah no Tarantino I'm trying

[00:21:14] Come on help me out here Griffin Who are hot 90s directors My brain is fried Brad Silverling director of Casper I mean we're talking like the canonical directors The Wachowski's Baz Lerman Robert Rodriguez you know people like that Where it's like Levenson yeah

[00:21:34] Yeah and they're like you know they came of age With the you know the Opening weekend big blockbuster Like you know but there's no generation Before that that would have had That in the rear view mirror if that makes sense I think there's another part to this too

[00:21:50] Which is Orson Welles It was so legendary that he was this boy Wonder that he hit so big so early But then kind of could never Climb out of the shadow of that original Success right Kane haunts him for the rest

[00:22:03] Of his career he can never match it again Well and I had Mank he had Mank on his tail Well old man yes but that's right We'll cover that story when the adventures The new adventures of old man comes out That's Netflix 2025

[00:22:17] But Spielberg does offer this new model Of like here's a kid who snuck onto The lot was directing night gallery When he was 20 and was the biggest director In the world by the age of 25 right So those people you're talking about M. Night and Singleton and Bacowski

[00:22:31] Is whatever I think are really Looking to the Spielberg thing of like Oh you can kind of make yourself that quickly You can be filled with them in vinegar And just like march into the studios To tell them I'm ready to make a movie

[00:22:43] And you might be able to Fincher yes you know He also can't discount you know Him Singleton coming out of the L.A. Film movement and the L.A. Rebellion so he had yes he had Spielberg but then he also had all these Black artists from the 70s

[00:22:59] And 80s who were making films That had a message in the same way that he did Charles Burnett you know All these filmmakers Gordon Parks So he definitely kind of Borrowed from both of those And then of course you can't really Talk about John Singleton without talking

[00:23:15] About Spike Lee and how something like That thing opens the door for him Two years later to do that That's the thing that's so wild Right like you sort of Forget that just in The context of these few years that like When Do the Right Things comes out

[00:23:31] Like major studios are like well we don't make Political movies anymore essentially Like and like Do the Right Thing is them Being like oh is there a sea change Like you know it's he says it I feel like in every interview I've ever read with him

[00:23:43] Where he's like the boys in the hood gets made And then the whole thing had hit so big Like that had sort of changed everything When there's such fundamentally Different movies but It was that thing I mean it's like when you Hear about you know

[00:23:57] Like the post EZ Rider Revolution in Hollywood where they were like Oh my god kids like these movies that are angry and Political and suddenly the bean Counters were like I don't know how you're angry Young people let them make movies you know Until it wore out

[00:24:11] And it felt like after Do the Right They were just like oh well I guess Like the African American audience has something to say Like fine filmmakers who have something to say Yeah it's like a blessing And occurs because it's great that that

[00:24:23] Opened the door for him but then They all get lumped in together Under like quote unquote hood movies I mean not so much Spike Lee but then What boys in the hood obviously Births is like then you have the Hughes brothers And then it's the society and like

[00:24:37] Trying to think of the other sort of Quintessential 90s Yeah Dead Presence is really Juices fantastic I love juice Juices I mean the thing is these Movies are great but it is It's just how Hollywood always Moves right they always just like

[00:24:55] Move as a sort of like oh let's copy Them or let's do more of this right You know and then yeah as you say Everyone just kind of gets swept into one bucket And then it's like well do you Have a message for us and what if a

[00:25:07] Filmmaker's like no I don't want that's not What can I do you know but I just want to make House Party come on Right exactly but I think You see like if you're Reginald Hudlin you start with House Party or like

[00:25:19] Can I be taken a little more seriously If you're John Singleton you start with Boys in the Hood you're like can you let me make a Fast and Furious movie you know I think There's this like rebellious attitude Of like let me make something that doesn't

[00:25:31] Have any larger point behind it This sounds like Malcolm And Marie have you seen that Movie yet Oh my god We don't need to get into it but you know No let's get into it for five seconds Did you like Malcolm and what did you think

[00:25:47] Of that movie that I had to watch this week Ooh I did not like that movie No it's not very good It's not very good and the thing about it Is you know and I'm reviewing it For MPR and we also have an episode On it but

[00:26:01] My whole thing is a lot Of what is happening in that movie By Sam Levinson who is Barry Levinson's son. Sure is. What's happening in that movie is Them like they're saying True things like yes all of These black filmmakers even today Still get pigeonholed

[00:26:19] You know Ava DuVernay has talked about how Every time she's interviewed no one wants to Talk about the actual craft of her work And what goes into the technical Aspects everyone's like just talking about The message and she wants To be taken seriously

[00:26:33] Both for her message and for her art So all that is true but then when you have it Being spouted in the Most hackneyed Hampestead way, yelled Cussing all this and And in between They're like anyway like what the fuck

[00:26:49] Is up with our sex life they screw about that I mean but yes it is Essentially Sam Levinson is making a movie About how it's hard to be a black director In like modern Hollywood So weird with then The Washington's kid it's just weird Yes yes

[00:27:05] It looks nice, looks very nice Yeah they're both beautiful and the house is Beautiful. Very they look great The house is cool. I also Also philosophically that's Kind of the only sort of movie I feel like should be Getting made in the midst of a Pandemic. Well yes

[00:27:23] Right like that sounds like a safe Production. I don't know If that's a huge recommendation For the viewing experience You'll feel ethical While watching it you won't get bad Exactly. I mean You could honestly put it on mute Yeah. Maybe put some music over the back

[00:27:41] Or just any music you like and like Have a good time because they are these two Very striking, very good looking On you know good actors Walking around and You know the photography is very crisp Maybe that's the approach with Malcolm & Marie

[00:27:55] I've heard someone who actually did that They turned off the sound halfway Through and were just like alright You know. I'm gonna put on an LP I don't know. They can just sort of play out In the background. Can I throw out a theory

[00:28:07] Something I was thinking under in this This whole generation Of 90s African American directors That we're talking about right like Singleton And the Hughes brothers you know Spike Lee entering the second decade of his career Ernest Dickerson starting to direct These things himself. Even you also

[00:28:23] Have like Robert Townsend You know he starts in the late 80s but like guys like that You know. He was still directing in the 90s But yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was He absolutely just started a little earlier I think all of them

[00:28:35] If we're talking about you know these guys Getting pigeonholed right And feeling limited in the perception of The societal weight and responsibility Their movies need to hold I think these guys all kind of get fucked By don't be a menace too I think don't be a menace

[00:28:51] Just kind of flattens all of these films Feeling like oh it's a genre with cliches Now and even though I think it's an affectionate parody It makes people feel like oh are these movies Mechanical and then after that Almost all of these directors are like

[00:29:05] I'm making something different. I'm doing from hell I'm doing too fast, too furious you know I'm doing the Italian job Like all of them shift to like I'm not making inner city Issue character based movies anymore So you're saying The Wayne's brothers screwed Always filmmakers Or are suggesting

[00:29:25] I think there's an argument I feel like we talk about this a lot But sometimes like Parodies can really fuck things over Absolutely I mean speaking of the Wayne's brothers I think scary movie killed the slasher The slasher revival right Like yeah, when you point out the

[00:29:43] Ground rules for a genre Yeah it can sort of hurt the genre The problem is that then the dumbest audience member Feels like they're smarter than the movie Right? They're like well I saw Someone explained to me the thing that happens In all of these movies

[00:29:57] So now I feel like I'm ahead of the eight ball You can't get me anymore But yeah like scary movie Comes out in 2000 And Saw comes out in 2004 You know and in between those two The big hit In between is the J Har boom There's that like

[00:30:15] That's a good call Yeah but then the problem is Scary movie 3 just Just fucking takes them to task Scary movie 3 Deserades J Har I don't remember that I don't want to talk about it Savage Scary movie 3 Of course is based on

[00:30:37] Two of the biggest horror movies of the early 2000s 3, 3 its main parody Targets are signs The ring and the matrix reloaded You know the three biggest Scary movies I think 8 Mile got taken down to Yes that's the fourth one Scary movie 5 of course Just Brutally Eviscerates

[00:31:03] Brokeback Mountain the scariest movie of the mid 2000s John Singleton Griffin Born in LA Grew up in LA I think his childhood he said is like He at some point goes to live with his dad Right that is the thing that he's borrowing

[00:31:21] From his childhood for this movie That his mom Sends him to live with his dad His mother is a pharmaceutical company Sales executive His father is a real estate agent Mortgage broker, financial planner Very similar to Fierce Tows I know he goes to USC

[00:31:39] He's part of that group That's emerging in the early 90s The only other thing Like I'm saying He loves Star Wars He loves Spielberg movies Comic books and video games That he used all that stuff As an escape growing up But when he went to college

[00:31:59] He wasn't intending to be A filmmaker He went originally for computer science And then Took a film writing class And then fell deeply into it Who basically Mentored him into Making movies This is his thesis movie He's so dang young

[00:32:21] When he wanted to apply to get into the program You had to write three Sample projects that you would like to make one day And this is one of those three movies I read this interview with him Where he's like It's a John Hughes movie

[00:32:35] That was what I Had grown up with as a teenager There's so much of that You obviously stand by me as well Then going to see the dead body In an early movie There's so much coming of age stuff That I'm pouring into that movie

[00:32:51] He's just sort of thinking Of this as his John Hughes movie This was the thing On the application for the film program You had to write down Three ideas for films And this one was called Summer of 84 And I think it was more Spiraling out of just the

[00:33:09] Seeing a dead body as children thing It was the stand by me thing And then as it expanded it turned into more Of a wide ranging Life of these young men rather than just the childhood He sells the script And he's like I have to direct it

[00:33:23] And like I don't know I think there's just this sort of confluence Of things happening post do the right thing Where a studio is like okay give it a shot Like it's crazy to think I know the movie was inexpensive And it was like $6 million to make

[00:33:37] But still that Columbia was just like yes You can have Go for it He doesn't even have a huge star attached To it really I know Ice Cube Is obviously A big figure but they barely He's like singletons like they barely know Who he was

[00:33:57] I want to get this woman's name So I can give her proper credit But on that sort of retrospective Special feature I was watching There was an executive at Columbia Who grew up in South L.A. Who is African American Who really feels like much like

[00:34:13] You know all the female directors We have covered on this podcast How the way they got their movie made Was there was one female executive Who read their script and fought it through the system This woman feels like she was very much The champion for John Singleton

[00:34:27] You know that he was This sort of hot thing Out of film school That he had his teacher Mentor presenting him around town And the other thing I've heard Reading interviews and stories about him Especially looking back at pieces from When he passed

[00:34:45] When people were writing about their experiences with him That he was just by all accounts This preternaturally Confident guy At the age of 22 he just walked in And was so self-assured, so confident Not cocky you know He could put a studio executive At ease

[00:35:03] And feel like this person's mature enough To direct a movie But let me find the name of this executive Because she deserves a lot of credit I think As well for getting him through Columbia Shout out to the single Female executives Yeah, like I just interviewed Chaka King

[00:35:23] To talk about Judas and the Black Messiah And he was like look this movie essentially only got made By one executive at Warner Brothers Who wanted to make a movie like this And every other studio I went to There was not one person Who was that interested

[00:35:37] It is sort of depressing how often it just boils down to Yeah there was just one exact Right, like No reference only gets to direct movies because of Linda Oubst You know it's like There's always that sort of like Story when it's not A straight white male

[00:35:55] Through the studio system I'm still trying to find this woman's name Embarrassingly But she also pointed out like she was talking about How surprising it was To all of them that it got the two Oscar nominations And they were just like We just never conceived

[00:36:11] Even when the film had played a count Even when it was a big hit When it was critically adored that it was ever going to break through there Because it was like Spike didn't get nominated These movies never get nominated

[00:36:23] And then she said I didn't get invited to the Oscars until a year ago I mean I wonder if Spike not getting nominated is part of I mean we can always speculate Speculate about how these things shake out No, I think that's a good read

[00:36:37] Yeah just because I Well I wasn't I was a child when that happened But I know that it was Kind of an outrage That he didn't get nominated For director or screenplay He was not made for screenplay He was not made for screenplay But then the compounding thing

[00:36:57] Of that that's the year that the Best Picture winner Is driving Miss Daisy Which is sort of a dead on arrival Movie in terms of Cultural cachet Like that movie didn't become A bunch of jokes That movie winning Best Picture was very quickly

[00:37:13] Something that everyone rolled their eyes at Like so It was like Green Book It's so Crazy that Green Book Won Best Picture I think about it all the time I don't know if I'm ever going to get over it I think about it a lot

[00:37:31] There's like 2016 and then there's Green Book And they're both like I still can't believe this happened I mean I can but I can't That's exactly the fact that Green Book Is sandwiched in And where like you've got Spotlight, Moonlight, Shape of Water Parasite Yes spotlight is a fairly

[00:37:51] That's the most traditional of those movies It's a good movie though Shape of Water is like the next Most obvious winner in that Bunch of like and that's you know Objective to it's still a strange Genre monster movie and then Green Book Is just the Oscars being like

[00:38:07] Come on give us one year to do some Bullshit come on please Stephanie Allen A-L-L-A-I That's why I was beating myself up For not remembering her name She is a major deal Absolutely yes Yeah I'm mad I didn't remember that myself

[00:38:25] Yes but that's what she was talking about This was an early film for her being An executive she transitioned to being A producer and still Didn't get invited into the Academy Awards Until 25 years later And she was like it's kind of astonishing

[00:38:39] In that sense that they recognize this movie In its moment but I think If I could just circle back to Green Book for a second I remember When, because it was Julia Roberts announced it right? Yes and she just goes Green Book Right and I just I laughed

[00:38:55] I wasn't even outraged I was like The gall of these fuckers It is so Bananas that they did this I mean it was a white lash It was making up for Moonlight In the same way And in general making up for The push to

[00:39:15] You know diversify and expand the membership Yeah it was this It was absolutely a backlash From older voters and maybe Younger because like The whole buzz that year because people just kept asking The reporters like why is Green Book doing so well

[00:39:29] Is the oh well I you know I talked to Voters and they're like well I like that movie And I'm like yes sure Maybe you enjoyed Green Book But that's still kind of a walk to Like best picture of the year Mark it down

[00:39:43] It is such a fucking slight movie That is what makes it so Absurd above all else Is it's not even like an offensive Movie of mock profundity You know it's a movie where a guy folds An entire pizza pie eats it on a bed

[00:39:57] Well I also remember just being There was like this weird I don't know How long it was maybe 45 minute Moment where A Pharrellis brother had an Oscar And Spike Lee did it and I was like How is this Woo That was the same year well right of course

[00:40:15] Spike saying it's not my cup of tea The greatest That was a good Oscar season Because it was also the Lady Gaga Bradley Cooper Oscar because you know You have Black Panther and Black Klansman nominated for best picture It felt like such a mirroring

[00:40:31] And Bohemian Rhapsody and Green Book But it felt like such a mirroring And I miss Daisy do the right thing Yeah right where Spike's just sitting There like just going like I'm not Gonna say anything I'm not gonna say Anything but really this again In a car

[00:40:47] Like gentle comedy for old people Really Sorry for bringing up Green Book I agree I just want to add on to Your list Aisha it's Getting elected The pandemic and Green Book are the three Things I play in my mind I'm not gonna go over and over again

[00:41:07] Just like how did we let There's such a perfect storm of things leading up To that moment We should have stopped it It's okay We're all doing fine Poison the hood So he makes this movie The only thing From the production that I really know about

[00:41:27] Is when I'm you know the fact That it was shot in sequence which is crazy And the fact that They're not even in the The first two actors Who showed up Ice Cube He had worked on the Arsenio Hall show is that correct and he met Him there

[00:41:47] Yeah he was like an intern At the Arsenio Hall show That's a thing I mean he was a PA On Peewee's play house and that's where He met Lawrence Fishburne and handed him the script Like half of the cast is constructed

[00:41:59] Not half but a portion of the cast In a way the biggest names were gotten through Him having the confidence as a PA To pull aside a star And say will you take a look at this I mean Angela Bassett is like Brand new to movies

[00:42:13] I guess she's done some TV She's done a lot of TV at this point but this is pretty much Her first substantive movie role And she's only done like two or three Movies period before this And very very small Yeah this was two years before

[00:42:27] What's love got to do with it 93 years? Yeah it's two years no you're right It's two years and it's funny to think That that's her and Lawrence Fishburne But Yeah cause that weirdly feels What's love got to do with it feels like Ten years after this

[00:42:45] Just in terms of how they're playing I don't know I guess they just seem Older I guess I don't know how It also feels to me like Angela Bassett Was so dominant in the 90s It's hard to process that she wasn't Really in movies until 1991

[00:42:59] You want to be like wasn't she a star For eight years before this movie came out Wasn't she the one lending Her credibility to get it bankrolled And she's like no this was like the first time

[00:43:09] Someone really took a shot on me and let me play a big part In a film This is also like basically the last Larry Fishburne movie the deep cover is the actual Last one but that's it Right cause he's still like I mean obviously

[00:43:21] He started young and he's in apocalypse now and stuff But at the point this movie comes out He's been most prominent in Pee Wee's play house For the couple of years leading up to this Where he's Larry Fishburne Does a lot of you know Coppola movies

[00:43:33] He's in school days which he's He's great in He's so hot in this movie Is that I'm sorry I made him my background Yeah I see He's just so fucking Good in this movie he is like so Captivating it is astonishing He didn't get nominated Yeah I

[00:43:53] He's the scene With him and When he embraces Trey and Trace is crying I just Every time I just tear up A little bit cause it's such a great moment That seems So good and the scene where he takes Trey and Rookie to Compton

[00:44:13] Okay can we talk about that scene Yeah please Because I was watching it Obviously for the I don't know how many Times at this point and it struck me That while I love This movie I do think sometimes it feels A little PSA after school special

[00:44:33] It has that like that sort of Stanley Kramer movie thing Like a you know like a this is An issues movie and we're gonna talk about This now And obviously like I think There are merits to that and I You know don't I still love

[00:44:49] This movie but it was interesting to me because I noticed For the first time that They get to Compton and They're standing there and he's talking to them And like as soon as they stand in front Of that billboard people just start milling Over

[00:45:03] Right hey what's going on over here Someone talking I was just like oh this feels like a play I feel like I'm in a high school play This is why I brought that scene up though Is like that scene should be A disaster right that scene

[00:45:17] The movie becoming so didactic in terms of What it's trying to say and really Like grabbing the little pals of the audience Members and saying listening and it only Works because of Lawrence Fishburne The fact that he pulls that scene off He is so just quietly powerful

[00:45:31] That you do believe that people would just Wander towards him the second He stands in front of a billboard Yeah no I still think it works It's just I noticed it this time And I was like yes this is It never crossed my mind I was like

[00:45:45] Yeah you go listen to Larry Fishburne talk like that's what you do But here's the thing he hadn't even started Talking they literally just stood there And then came over Come on if you saw that guy walking down the street

[00:45:57] You'd be like holy shit let me follow this guy I want to see what's going to happen in his day Yes and again Lawrence Fishburne was hot And so was Marish Chesma Marish Chesna is beautiful Marish Chesna is just a beautiful person Because I mean he's hot

[00:46:15] But like because he's like whatever he is 50-ish now and I mean he looks Older in that like Yeah but he's aged like wine I don't know if you folks have this thing too but like Morris Chestnut is one of those people who looks like he was

[00:46:31] Designed to be bald like he just has a Perfectly shaped head he's like Ideally bald He's a good looking bald man there's no question In the same way as like Michael Jordan where it's like Makes sense And when you see footage in like last dance

[00:46:45] Of young Michael Jordan with hair you're like The geometry of this is wrong There's something about Morris Chestnut having all that extra hair How he does Ricky I'm like dude you're good looking Get rid of the hair you don't need it I like him

[00:46:59] Either form doesn't matter to me Hey look I'll take a piece of Morris Chestnut Anywhere I can get it yeah Yeah I'm looking at sort of yeah and he I guess he has aged he's gotten I don't know it's just his eyes I guess

[00:47:11] You know you age in the eyes that's a but he really When he was in that show What the hell was it called it was called like No that's unlike CB not CBS But like I know what you're talking about It was on Fox it was

[00:47:23] I was saying like surely wasn't called Rosewood Because that's a movie John Singleton made It was called Rosewood he played Dr. Rosewood and I just Remember the poster For that show was just like look It's Morris Chestnut he's got like sunglasses

[00:47:37] You know what you don't want to watch this It was like Come on I'm like what does he do Like I don't know he's a doctor or something You got more questions David you're making me realize that should be the tagline For every TV show just you want

[00:47:51] To watch this Come on you're like come on This is what the show is this is when it starts And you want to watch it give it a Give it a jacket or something Give it a fucking jacket I do love that especially with certain people

[00:48:05] Like Rob Lowe having a new TV show Every fucking season You're like this time he's got glasses Yeah Rob Lowe but mustache We've added a mustache You're interested? This time no tie Oh my goodness Anyway Morris Chestnut very very hot That's the other thing it's just

[00:48:26] Everyone in this movie goes on To pop Because of this you know everyone I mean what the eight principal Actors Apart from Ice Cube I guess right yeah Apart from Ice Cube No I'm saying Ice Cube has he's already Popped I mean but not as a Movie star

[00:48:46] Not as a movie star it's his first movie role And it's true he goes right on to Make a bunch more movies and Friday is four years from now He gets to write a movie Yes he continued to be a movie star for decades

[00:48:56] I mean I just think He has had the most Durable Career of any Rapper turn actor probably right Does Will Smith count as a rapper Interesting yes Yes he counts He counts I mean summertime still Slaps so yeah there's that Summertime does slide I'm trying to

[00:49:20] That's the thing I'm just trying to remember the exact Trajectory of like When does you know parents Don't just understand but it's coming up before Yeah it's a few years before the fresh prince So yeah Will Smith counts I just think Cube's career Is not often

[00:49:36] Given the respect for how Persistent it has been You know if you just look at the Range of how much he's Pretty much stayed a Very reliable presence in movies For almost three decades In different sized roles in different genres Yeah and

[00:49:54] He went into the kiddie the family Movie you know with are you there yet Are we there yet yeah I like when ice cube is Matt He's very funny when he's Matt It's like he's so good at that That's his 2010s It's the sneer right the snare

[00:50:10] Is what made him a star I think that's what singleton Recognized was just you put this Sneer on a big screen it's gonna work I don't know if the guy technically knows how to act Yet but the dude's got presence

[00:50:20] And that sneer is worth like a million dollars He's honestly Fantastic in this movie I mean But that's not crazy right he's just Good in this movie it's kind of the movie star thing Where it's or whatever he's just like Seems very comfortable in front of the camera

[00:50:34] John singleton had a great eye he Recognized that guy is just Fucking compelling to watch I just do think it's interesting if you look At all the different because I think Anytime he shows up in a movie people are Still kind of like ice cube in a movie

[00:50:48] You know because like ice cube As a celebrity as an idea Is so much bigger than any part He plays but then you're like that's how he's Right that's like 21 jump street Like then it's true it can be like 25 years into his career as a film actor

[00:51:02] Tony on drum street is like Isn't it funny that ice cube is the boss Like and you're like yeah I guess so I mean You're like this guy's really proven him so he could play The boss in a comedy you know he can do Two fucking family movies

[00:51:14] You know he could be the lead in a triple X sequel he's sort of Soft retired right now I would say I know well now He's just on twitter getting Getting people upset So there's that That's the thing He's getting people upset on twitter he also

[00:51:32] Of course founded the big three to which I Go to the finals every year because you can get Court side seats for like 40 dollars Uh huh We're not thinking of iced tea Ice tea has been pretty persistent as an actor as well

[00:51:44] Well iced tea just got that one job And held onto it for a while Oh yeah but he went to It doesn't count But I'm just saying he's not Really he's not really yeah He's not challenging himself with new roles

[00:51:58] No he built a really nice nest for himself Yes I just every single time I get a like five dollar Residual check for The one scene of one episode Of law and order I was on eight years ago I just try to do the math

[00:52:14] On what iced tea must be getting In the mail on a daily basis So much it just boggles The mind yeah I Actually saw them one time in grand Central very early in the morning Shooting a scene between Ice tea and Richard

[00:52:30] Belzer that was that was a fun New York City Signing the bells have I ever told this story on my very Briefly I don't know because I don't know what you're about to say but I doubt It my one scene On SVU is me playing a shitty

[00:52:44] Computer hacker dude and ice tea Coming to me Griffin you're playing A hacker a computer guy yes Yes which episode is this Because I've probably seen it it's called Russian Brides They're looking to get a trail of Russian Mail order brides and I play a guy

[00:52:58] Who like hides computer Trails for rich people What year was this 2012 I want to say Okay I was I was still watching SVU at that time yeah Yeah it would knew It was when Mariska went On maternity leave and they added two new detectives Before she came back

[00:53:18] Yeah that was a not the greatest time For SVU but right so it was Like one of the first episodes Of the new Female detective character and ice Tea and the two of them are breaking into my thing And they're trying to get me to like hand over

[00:53:32] Evidence so they can find the trail Of the Russian brides or whatever And Icey's just like a fucking pro right He comes in they hand him the sides And he reads them he goes like let's do this They have three cameras rolling

[00:53:46] They get all his coverage he does it in like one take Right maybe two takes maximum Right and they're just like great Ice you're good And he's like great and then They're like let's turn around onto the kid And they put all the cameras on me

[00:53:58] And now and I just have to imagine Because this was communicated No one said anything to anyone No one said anything to me I just have to imagine this is how they do this Any episode where he has to interrogate someone

[00:54:10] And he has to be frightened by him They turn all the cameras around to me He's clean he's not in the shot at all You cannot see his mouth So he knows that he can say whatever he wants And they call action in every other word

[00:54:22] Out of his mouth his motherfucker I'm not exaggerating you have never told That story mother fucker get that mother fucking Lollipop out of your mother fucking mouth Unless I fucking smack it out And it and it worked like I was terrified Not only because it's like

[00:54:38] He's saying that to me but I'm also just like Is any of this usable? What is the what's going on? Like I just look so Flum mixed and I remember the writer Coming up to me afterwards and I was like That was intense and he was like

[00:54:50] Ice teach has called you a mother fucker It's almost as good as being called a mother fucker By Samuel L. Jackson Yeah he was like that's like saying You played with the beach boys or something It's like the silver medal Of being called a mother fucker On screen

[00:55:08] That is so funny do you think he just figured that out Like in like season five he was just like Oh yeah that would get a great reaction I did ask him about it but it was just Such well-oiled machinery that it just felt

[00:55:18] Like they were like this scene's a six And everyone on the crew was like six got it okay Like it felt like that was his mother It's like a catcher sending a Sign to a picture they're just like blue left And like that goes okay

[00:55:32] Cause no one was like Ice wow that was crazy They were just like okay And they knew to frame it so that you couldn't See his mouth like they knew you have To get the other guys coverage with Ice Totally out of frame cause he's gonna say mother

[00:55:46] Fucker Ice TV is not in this movie And it makes him a movie star yeah They will go on to Be in trespass together the next year But boys in the hood let's Talk about some of you know I actually love the opening I did too

[00:56:04] Okay so I'm not alone in this Definitely I love it yeah it's you need it I feel like you absolutely need it Well yeah right cause if we were starting On them is essentially these kind of like You know confident teenagers

[00:56:16] You might not right there's that just sort of It's crucial And just that the confidence Of some of these compositions in the start Like where like the kids walking down The street the teacher is talking In voice over saying like he's a really intelligent

[00:56:30] Kid but he's got a temper I don't know Where it's coming from and the kids just like Walking past someone get beat up like Yes it's like you should like you're saying Like everything in this Movie is definitely very like stark

[00:56:42] And like you know kind of grabbing the audience Is chin and pointing them at it but like It's very very effective I also think In terms of like you know movies Teach you how to watch them Especially because This is a world that was not being

[00:56:58] Shown in multiplexes at this point In time The fact that you open with 30 minutes of them As children There's a real framing of like I'm gonna tell an epic story here right Like you've seen the poster it's three Teenagers right it's young men

[00:57:14] But here we are and we're spending Half an hour with them as little boys I'm gonna make you consider their entire Lives you know This isn't just a slice this isn't Just the last week of school or something I really want you to think of them holistically

[00:57:28] As people in their entire life up until that point And just the fact that That prologue Goes on for that long You know that you really have to Live in their reality and also That you start seeing the circumstances Of the world through their eyes

[00:57:44] When children are so much more Guileless you know when they're moldable When there's the immediate tension Of how much are they Gonna get shaped by the things around them You know him Him getting up in front of the class And just sort of immediately like

[00:58:00] Talking rather than like freezing up And like you know saying like All my dad says like the first humans Were found in Africa like just all that There's like a sort of like sweetness Mixed with chip on shoulder like It's not

[00:58:14] You know like the bad version of this movie I don't know the teacher would just give a Speech to the kids face about how he's A fuck up or how he's Down to anything like that's the bad version Of this opening.

[00:58:28] Can I say I think such an effective Story telling tool that is not used Often enough is defining A character by how people talk about them Before they come on screen You know so much about furious styles From the speech That Trey gives as a boy

[00:58:44] And saying my dad told me this Yeah You know from the moment you meet the guy You're just like I understand who he is Now I just want to see what he looks like And who's playing him. Yeah and there's the Great scene

[00:59:00] Right before he goes to furious where Angela Bassett's character is on the phone And she's like we're moving And he's gonna go live with his dad And the teacher is like his dad And she's like yes he has a father And it's like ugh well

[00:59:14] I mean part of it Part of the I feel like some of the critiques of movies In the movies it's spawned And it's weak you know is that There can be a tendency To pathologize To really kind of Hammer Hammer home like okay this is

[00:59:34] A sort of um This is a pathology this is part of Black culture for there not to be fathers And what not but I think this movie really walks A fine line and does a good job Of not tilting too much into that Like yes this is true

[00:59:48] That really furious is the only Father figure in this movie But at the same time That gentrification speech Really kind of Helps create this community And this understanding that this is not Of They're doing per se this is the way Society White society, white mainstream society

[01:00:10] Has made it they have abandoned Our um our neighborhoods This is why We're like this and so I think the He does such a good job of Walking that very fine line In doing this Having these scenes like the scene with the black

[01:00:26] Cop who is you know so cruel And nasty to them which singleton Says that's right out of his life Where you always run the risk in movies Like this of like This one scene is supposed to encapsulate An entire societal Problem or decades Of you know racist idea

[01:00:44] Like you know what I mean like it's a movie It's very tough to boil things down Or to get you know or to give Things in appropriate way Like you know to just be like yeah this is a stand In for everything And there are obviously scenes

[01:00:58] You know where characters Become more uh you know Polemic right but I think one of the chief successes Of this movie is It feels like he constantly Refocuses back on These characters are specific People they are not archetypal I'm telling the stories of these

[01:01:18] Guys you know they don't represent Everything Even though their world Is a microcosm of an issue that I'm Very concerned about a series of issues you know Well I do think The the cop is the one sort Of key flaw for me Because I kind of agree

[01:01:36] There's just so I don't know I feel like To me the issues Isn't so much that this cop exists In the film It's the way in which he Exists solely to like Kind of spout the most like horrific Things In ways that one don't

[01:01:54] Where as the white cop stands there just sort of being like okay Right and it doesn't feel real To me like why would this character Be telling this to Like this is why I became a cop That just seems like something you wouldn't tell Another person You know

[01:02:10] Why Singleton says it's out of his life And that's the thing that often is true Where they're like well that happened to me I'm like I believe you like but it's so crazy That it's tough to put it in a movie sure Yeah

[01:02:24] Maybe it did actually happen I just feel like I'm certain that that person Exists and probably still exists In some form but I just felt like In telling like doing this Sort of short monologues Like I became a cop so that I can take

[01:02:38] All the you black people off the street And blah blah blah it was just like I don't know that could have been said to the white Like I feel like it would be more realistic For him to be saying this to like someone else Not to people

[01:02:50] Right who just called In a burglary as well It's not like they're like anyway Those two scenes are the Shake-Gissing entire movie for me and I think It's a combination of they feel incredibly overwritten Whether or not it is verbatim from his life

[01:03:04] You still sometimes need to as you said Write things down from reality Because things feel More ridiculous you know especially when You put him into a fictionalized environment I also think that performance is not particularly Good I think he is not Helping he's over cranking things a lot

[01:03:20] He's got some Uncle Ruckus going on there He's got a little too much A little too much for me I think he's in a different movie His name is Jesse Lawrence Jesse Lawrence Ferguson The Furious Styles character though I feel like does feel More believable partly just because

[01:03:40] You can tell how much Singleton Like that's like the you know such A fleshed out loved character Like how much Singleton is pouring His own you know dad into it And just the specifics of His speeches And also I guess dad's giving speeches

[01:03:56] It's just like the oldest movie film Like I right I'm pretty Ready for you know Dad to talk to Son and be like look here's my perspective On wearing a condom Or joining the army Or you know but also let's say Like here's Lawrence Fishburne

[01:04:14] Right who's like in his late 20s and has already been acting for almost 20 years right has Like lived multiple lifetimes Has like overcome drug addictions Was like in the jungle With Coppola and doing lasso tricks Of Pee Wee Herman and just fucking everything

[01:04:30] And like here's the part essentially He's been waiting for his entire career Right like this is finally Someone has given him a bag Large enough to hold Everything he has to put into a character And there's something about the fact That he Has so much restraint in what

[01:04:48] He's doing this would be such An easy character to overplay You know and he's He's so quiet he's so Focused you know And there's just such a I don't know an Integrity to him and to everything he's Saying it's so thought out I mean he said

[01:05:06] In this thing that when he read the script He like sobbed and that it was Just like the first time he read something where he was Just like I absolutely understand What this needs to be and people Joke about the fact that there's like

[01:05:18] What a five year age difference between Him and Cuba in this Yeah we've got some mama mia Stuff going on here Like how are you How are you playing but that Honestly I feel like that happens all the time Especially with black actors This happens fairly frequently

[01:05:36] Where it's like there's not That big of an age difference between the actual Actors in part because Well white people Have a hard time telling black How old they are it's like I don't know They don't know that Angel Is now 62

[01:05:54] They would probably see this movie and be like I don't know what is she 45 This actually happens on black Ish too on black ish he's playing Anthony Anderson's Father and I think There's maybe 10 years Age difference between them could be even Less I'm going to look it up

[01:06:12] Fishburn 61 No fishburn is 50 Born in 61 yes Anthony Anderson was born in 1970 He's 9 years old It's just that it's that Hollywood Thing where they add 5 years To the older person the older character And subtract 5 from the younger character But then with black actors I think they just

[01:06:34] They just do that a little more In either direction Well there's also just not the not as many At least back then there were not as many black actors That were being chosen so it's like Yeah Absolutely and like so many of these Movies just have the most

[01:06:50] Stacked casts And it's great but it's also You're like shit people just wanted Rolls that were interesting like it was just so Hard to be a black actor in the 90s To have any role that might have some depth to it

[01:07:02] When we did love and basketball last summer We had that same thought we were just like it is Bug nuts how just Every actor who appears in one scene of this Movie went on to become famous later You know and it is

[01:07:14] Just that thing of like if you write a movie That has 30 good parts in it for black actors You will have no shortage Of people who have been waiting for the opportunity You know To actually play a real human being I also just think Fishburne has such Gravitas

[01:07:30] That you do sell that he is like infinitely More worldly than the rest of The cast You know everyone else has been acting For a couple years and he's been acting since He was a child so you're just like He is so much more comfortable on screen

[01:07:44] That's in a way that you can't fake And that gives him that sense of maturity I also think it's just kind of smart That it's like They cast more age appropriate For him at the beginning of the movie With young Trey which in a way Is more important

[01:08:00] Than if you cast An older actor who would be too old In the opening scenes and age appropriate Later you know Yeah I guess Trey Is supposed to be 17 when He jumped right he's like that's how old he is Right and Cuba looks a little older than that

[01:08:16] They all look a little older Right they are Maris just noticed but like Maris is like I'm going to college and I'm like Maris It looks like you just left college And entered pro football Looks like you just left grad school Like come on I mean Cuba also

[01:08:34] Is like that that Malaney joke Where he has such a baby face So he never really ages he just looks Like an increasingly tired child You know He looks old in this movie But you're also like You're an exhausted looking 17 year old Yeah Definitely

[01:08:56] So we jump forward I don't know Is there anything else in the early scenes That we want to talk about I mean just we were talking about Lawrence Fish Remember that's that stone skipping scene Is so fucking good Like even before you get to the classroom

[01:09:10] There's that flash of sort of Like when they're looking At the paintings and you hear them Parrying back things they've heard on the news And they talk about why there's The yellow Color of the blood because the plasma Separating I mean there's so much

[01:09:26] Just from this sort of like The worldliness that these Kids shouldn't have at this age You know the casualness With which they talk about stuff The movie just has one of the most arresting openings ever Just in terms of Like how immediately you're getting The

[01:09:44] Dilogue over the Columbia logo Before the title even shows up I love that And then the gunshots yeah Yeah it's just like immediately throwing you into the world Love that old Columbia logo too Great logo I was gonna say the old gray lady But that's not correct

[01:10:02] No that's the New York Times The old beige lady Her robes are cream Cream The old cream lady Kind of a I don't know, taupe Miss Columbia the old taupe lady We jump forward we're at a barbeque Doughboy played by Ice Cube Has just gotten out of jail

[01:10:28] He has new friends I do like how Little Chris we just now No one ever says why he's in a wheelchair We just kind of It's implied like he's already been wounded You know by A gunshot wound like The story Singleton tells Is that that guy was like

[01:10:48] That actor was just like hey you wrote A A movie with a guy in a wheelchair That's me, you gotta put me in the movie He just like literally accosted John Singleton Was like you have to put me in the red screen Wow

[01:11:02] There's this scene with Nea Long and Regina King I mean this movie is not Heavy on female characters Getting a ton to do I would say That's like basically the only movie Where two women are talking to each other Trying to think of others

[01:11:18] Yeah and when Angela Bassa talks to the teacher Which happens off screen And voice over Well I guess there's the mom The mom And his girlfriend And Ricky's girlfriend Ricky's mom and girlfriend But again it's about Ricky Yeah let's say right it fails the Bechdel test

[01:11:38] Because every time two women are talking They're talking about a man It's a lot of moms and girlfriends I do like Regina King's Two scenes in this movie Regina King is like throwing heat And this is her first movie Regina King just she never misses

[01:11:54] She had done over 100 episodes of 227 That was her only credit And then she said the show ended and no one would hire her She couldn't get an audition As far as she was concerned she thought her career was over

[01:12:06] And this was the thing that Cinco Handedly gave her A future And so she shows up she's ready Regina King never misses Yeah Right but I don't know What are we doing with this sort of middle Kind of trufo Part of the movie where it's just like

[01:12:24] Regina King Jr is figuring out Sex and like Lying about being a virgin Or not being a virgin Right making up an insane story Where like you know a mom Is chasing him What do you call it The hatch it Hatch it there you go hatch it

[01:12:44] I know people always talk About drunk history But the fucking Michael Payne bit In the Ant-Man movies is so lifted from this You know I mean drunk history is maybe the bridge Between the two But especially with the kind of like Unreliable narrator aspect of it

[01:13:02] Yeah I mean I also the true Folk Emherence is interesting because I just I do love how much the midsection Is just kind of like Relatively conflict Free just a glimpse in these lives You know To a certain extent I think this movie Reminds me a lot to

[01:13:20] Best years of our lives Which I did one of my favorite movies ever But in the way that like That movie is about the shared trauma That these three guys have And then them re-entering society And you sort of follow them

[01:13:36] Separately and then they cross back over each other And the supporting characters come in and out And all that sort of stuff This midsection is sort of just that But it's more sort of the all consuming Threat of trauma around them At all times

[01:13:50] But so much of it is just kind of this like Cotidian day by day stuff They're chilling out They're going to parties they're right I mean you know Trace trying to get Lamed It's just nice seeing people live In a movie you know The fashion

[01:14:08] That's always something that stuck out to me I mean it's like I love 90s fashion And there's so many Different kinds of styles being represented Like that's something that just like is major I feel like we should point out Absolutely I mean the Jerry curls Like yeah

[01:14:26] I'll say Like outside of the Jerry curls Pretty much the way everyone Looks in this movie would be cool today Right the Jerry curls are the one thing That haven't maybe carried over to 2021 That's the one like oh it's the early 90s Right

[01:14:42] I mean I guess like the I don't know I feel like Ice Cube is the one His character is the one who's like kind of Dated Cause it's like backy Where's just a lot of like t-shirts and backy things He also has the worst Jerry curl

[01:14:56] It's hard to Yes he's Right he is sort of hilariously the dorkiest looking Even though he's kind of Supposed to be like the toughest Most street savvy of all the characters Whereas the rest of them are they look good I mean do you guys

[01:15:12] Talk about how I think Mars just Not as hot as I used to Yeah especially just cause it's like He's so built to You know The mesh shirts I love a mesh shirt That's such a choice I just love imagining a world

[01:15:26] Where I would feel okay wearing a mesh shirt Where I'm like you know what I'm gonna throw on The mesh shirt today I think everyone's gonna enjoy That But I also just like I feel weird talk about this In some recent episode how like wildly

[01:15:38] The standards have changed for Like a fit man is on screen And how now often I find them grotesque You know Like when I see someone who's gotten jacked For a Marvel movie I'm just like I would never want to look like that

[01:15:52] I don't find that aspirational at all And then you look at Morris Chestnut and you're like Oh no that is how a person's supposed to look That is actually men take note The ideal physical form You know I'm not getting there I don't know if I can chestnut

[01:16:06] Yeah I'm more like I'm more like Morris Peanut You know I'm small And I don't have a lot of muscle definition Right but yeah the movie Does kind of slow down here it's not bad I agree It's great But like you know You have like the college recruiter

[01:16:28] Coming to talk about the SATs You have the gentrification The Furious is lecture about gentrification You just have a lot of little interludes Obviously the Sex fantasy scene The thing you're talking about in terms of drunk history Griffin is like When he's like and then she said

[01:16:46] Do you know how to drive And she's saying the word And him doing voice over For his own performance You know where it's like But this is the John Husey thing as well And you know all that Just sort of the He's mixing in this kind of like

[01:17:04] Later teen dramedy stuff And then you can do slice of life stuff That it doesn't have to be all burdened With conflict Although at the same time He's laying the groundwork for The conflict that comes at the end because You know when they go

[01:17:20] Yeah yeah when they go to That hang out on the boulevard Or the street with everyone That's where they encounter The guy who they bump into And then the guns go off And they're sort of You know the scene You know the scene Where it's like

[01:17:40] Like there's a lot of people Who are like They're like You know They're like Like they're like They're like They're like Like they're like Like they're like Like you know it's not like They're all just like living in Happy teen lives That are going to get disrupted later

[01:18:08] But it's just It's not as kind of Agit-proppy I kind of admire that It's sort of swerves into this Um Teen melodrama territory It's also just a very like Classical confidently made Movie like you talk about A lot of young filmmakers Who get to make a studio feature

[01:18:32] Early, right? What made them break through the pack At such a young age is that they have Like a very flashy Kinetic style that they direct With a lot of energy I mean usually when you see a movie directed by someone who is under 25

[01:18:46] You're like oh yeah that's a movie directed by a 22 year old Right it's just like It's all like come on let me add them And this is like there's this Every move I've ever thought of The camera move right yeah

[01:18:58] Right the camera is going to go through a guy's Eyeballing out his ear and whatever And like this is a weirdly Relaxed movie In terms of You don't get the sense that he feels like He has something to prove You know even though he obviously Did

[01:19:16] It doesn't feel like it is a movie that is working too hard To impress you it is a movie that feels Like it is very confident In what it has to say and that it will land I mean they talked about in this Future too but like

[01:19:28] Everyone was just kind of very protective Of him I think because he was so young Especially like Fishburne and Bassett who are older But Stephanie Allen as well And everyone was just kind of like We need to make sure this guy isn't

[01:19:44] Focked with you know I think the whole cast Kind of insulated him from Studio meddling and whatever To just say like give him the space To succeed on his own terms here It's the only way it's going to work

[01:19:56] He has some story about like they shot the first Scene he was like great print it And then they moved to the second scene And he says that again and like his 80 takes Some aside and is like you can do as many

[01:20:06] Takes as you like you know like And he was just like right I'm not in film School anymore I can like It's not every foot Of film counts So he's learning as he goes which makes This movie all the more astonishing because I really feel like that

[01:20:22] It feels like a movie that's From a veteran Hollywood Person in a good way It's so depressing to me In a certain way where like you know So many of the directors We've covered on this show especially people Whose career start in the 80s

[01:20:38] Or the 90s you know and get to make their First movie young like When Cameron Crowe was doing say anything There's the story I think the first scene They shot is when Q-Sac Is putting on the videotape at the Old folks home

[01:20:52] And is giving them like the speech beforehand And they did like one take And Cameron Crowe said like print Onto the next set and like The AD had to pull my side and be like You need to shoot coverage

[01:21:04] You need to put like the camera in two places So there were editing options And he didn't even think of that And I just feel like There's something kind of beautiful To whether it's through lack of Experience or lack of confidence or whatever Like first time filmmakers

[01:21:20] Be giving that space To fail and gently be Sort of like guided versus now where it's like Your first movie costs $200 million It's on rails If you're wrong the first AD Will overpower you and yell over you You know the executive will come

[01:21:36] In a demand that you have to do these 20 things What's Next I guess it's Ricky Dying I can't, it's not a long Movie it feels very epic it's an hour And 50 minutes When I was putting it on What is this movie like 2 hours 20 minutes long

[01:21:54] Because I just think of it as this like Big muscular like Life story movie But I guess it's just we just Meet Ferris and The Bloods like you know shooting The gun in the air like that's really it right Like there just been that one confrontation

[01:22:10] And that's kind of That right? Like I'm not gonna be the one who Is going to be the cop when he pulls When he pulls him over and then like Other than that the big thing is just like Am I gonna lose my virginity

[01:22:24] Am I gonna pass the SATs Like Just not just like so Comfortable on screen You know there's such a like Gentleness to him Where it's not like he's a character Who has these big emotional scenes You're just rooting for this guy so He's a really sympathetic performer

[01:22:44] And when he you see him Watching the army commercial on TV You just get like this Like lump in your throat and you're just like Oh fuck I just know I know what he's thinking while he sees this You know before you even get to the scene

[01:22:58] Where Cuba tries to talk him out of it You're just like I understand why this is appealing To this guy I understand why this guy feels trapped You know you're worried about That outcome for him For long enough that you're You lose track of the bigger threat

[01:23:12] Around the corner you know Yeah And it's just the way Doughboy React like just that's what I love about Ice Cube's performance is just when When you just sort of see it cross his face Like oh oh I know it's about to happen you know

[01:23:30] And it's not like Trey running and screaming Like he just has this sort of like resigned Horror as he's like okay We gotta go The operatic reaction and when Doughboy pulls up in the car And he sees the body lying there He shakes his head

[01:23:46] That's what I love they don't cut to a close up or whatever He doesn't cry, he doesn't scream When he gets closer he gets more emotional But his first reaction is like I had a feeling this would happen

[01:23:56] You know which I think speaks to the energy of the movie Which is this era of resignation These Guys have of just like It could happen But in the end it's not satisfying For the audience really Certainly not for him And like his you know

[01:24:14] Driver is essentially like what are you doing You're getting out of the car That's too much Putting a hat on a hat here He can't even believe that Doughboy is like Whatever Like trying to you know linger at the crime scene Well also there's that quiet

[01:24:30] Tension when Trey starts asking For them to let him out of the car And Doughboy is just not even responding And it's because like Trey saying Let me out of the car Is rubbing in Doughboy's face I shouldn't be doing this in a place

[01:24:44] We should all abandon ship right now This is a bad idea To let him out of the car is to acknowledge That there's a thing that should be prevented Well on top of that You have the fact that Prior to this they've set it up

[01:24:58] That like Doughboy is the problem child And Ricky is the Is the golden boy And Oh man the scene where They bring his body back Every time I start crying Because just the screen that the punctured Screams of The mother and his girlfriend And then when she's

[01:25:20] Like the way in which I forget the actress' name but she plays That scene so fantastically Oh Let me just read the actress playing The mother Fuck what is her name It's Tyra Farrell Yes She plays that role Because she's got conflicting emotion

[01:25:42] She's going in and out between I'm grieving and then She starts smacking him And she's like you did this You did this And I'm just like oh my goodness I can't take how Just like this role Is you can just see all the emotions

[01:26:00] Going back and forth between her And when we see him later On be like okay now I gotta go take revenge It's like you feel as though It's partially yes It's kind of in his Not his nature but this is like what he would do

[01:26:14] Anyway because he is the one Out of the three of them who Flirts with the The gang lifestyle But it's also well He clearly harbors some guilt Like some resentment and feelings About the relationship he had with his brother And that's driving him Just as much as

[01:26:34] The fact that he carries a gun And is ready To pop off at any moment Or at least give the impression that he's going to pop off At any moment. Murdering Ricky is so meaningless You know it's The feeling in this movie That this community puts

[01:26:52] Their chips on this guy Right that when the college scouts show up They're like well of course Ricky yes Ricky is on a different track than the rest Of us and they all go stand outside They sit outside so that they can talk

[01:27:04] In the room when the college Recruiter comes and they're like oh okay Yeah we gotta go outside we'll hang out here Yeah there's just like that respect there For Ricky And so for everyone else they're just like This is just so cruel and senseless What a tragedy

[01:27:20] And Doughboy as he says He starts with like being on this Game board you know And he's conflicted about Like well the rules of war Are I'm supposed to retaliate Right I just think It's also like it's such a master stroke For me that when

[01:27:38] The scene where they drive up To the bloods outside the burger Place The way you enter that scene Is just with those three or four guys Talking bullshit You know that it's the same Kind of conversations we heard In the middle act of the movie

[01:27:56] You know they're talking about getting a haircut And they're talking about girls and stuff And that's before Doughboy shows up before the car Is even in frame it's this very Important sort of narrative framing Of this movie could have just As easily been about these four guys

[01:28:12] You know And as much of the movie Would have been light and fun These guys are not Like you know Career criminals They're victims of the exact same Circumstances But the bad version of this movie is Trey is like Doughboy Like we can't continue this cycle

[01:28:34] Of violence like don't even bother But if I much Right Trey is just like I Let me out of this like I know this is Not a good idea but it's not like he's Like trying to talk Them out of what you're saying

[01:28:48] The whole sort of like you know Well now we have to respond like the whole thing That's going on. Cause Trey himself Is a kid right? Like it would make Sense for Furious to make That speech but for Trey Like yes he's a good boy

[01:29:02] But he's also, but he's still You know he's a kid he's not gonna Moralize in that way in the same way Or at all in the way that Furious would And it's also so much about being a Teenager and when you're

[01:29:14] So self conscious about how you want to be Perceive what kind of person you want To be you know you are playing roles In some kind of way trying to form yourself Into the adult you think You'll hopefully get to turn into You know you're you're play acting

[01:29:28] The part before you own it Um You know and that's like it's So much the root of like the the Tragedy of this movie is just like Well the stakes are so high for these guys But they it shouldn't be there's In the 19 These are wants and decisions

[01:29:46] By hormonal children You know like in so many ways That's right that's why them as kids And them as horny teenagers in the movie That's that is brilliant I think It's it's yeah And just a matter of factness to the movie I don't know I think this movie

[01:30:02] Almost gets a bad rap for being Too much the You know Stanley Cramer You know movie that taught Hollywood In South Central LA because that's How Hollywood reacted to it and obviously You know it's not like the movie isn't trying to Deliver a pointed message

[01:30:18] But like I do think singleton Is also just like here's my slice of life Movie and Hollywood is like well He said it All right we have no more work to do Look at that wow and we even gave him An Oscar nomination you know it's the other

[01:30:32] Movie I was weirdly thinking of a lot while Watching this because I feel like there's A similar phenomenon In LA in terms of its reputation In terms of Endearment when we Watched it for this podcast And I was so astonished to remember Like oh right only the last

[01:30:50] 20 minutes are this Devastating weepy cancer drama Up until that point The movie is just the life of this woman And it is sort of similar to the Second act of this movie where it's like Seeing her go from different marriages Different relationships different eras of her life

[01:31:06] The tragedy of that movie is you get So invested in her as a real Person that when this tragic Thing happens it feels so unfair Because it doesn't feel like the whole Movie's been pushing her towards that inevitable Outcome and it's the same thing with

[01:31:20] Like Ricky in this movie you know You get so comfortable With these characters And their lives and you're rooting for them That when you know The epic tragedy happens It hits so much harder But much like In terms of Endearment where the reputation is just

[01:31:38] Oh my god I cry so much that movie's so sad It's so depressing I think this movie can get flattened out to Ricky running To doboy fading away To a couple of the furious Speeches I mean you can take like For the foremost iconic moments

[01:31:54] Of this movie and it feels A lot more polemic than It is you know When so much of it is kind of A real life and that's the only stuff That stuff is the only reason why the bigger scenes Work. Yeah I agree Yeah. Good movie. Good movie.

[01:32:10] The ending is very good. I like You know just it's sort of like I mean it's even more Brutal but just It's like American graffiti where it's just Like titles or just like yes so You know it's just FYI you know

[01:32:24] Doboy isn't going to make it out through the month Yeah it's just two weeks later We should say iconic I mean scenes the ending With ice cube Drinking a 4D Pouring it out It's so good You don't know they don't show Don't care about what happens yeah

[01:32:44] Yeah it's great it's so well written Like that's the best version of what We're talking about you know where it really feels like Because it feels like something he would say Like verses like a Yes it's from the mouth of the character

[01:32:56] It doesn't feel like the writer trying to make some argument It's really grounded in it and there's something so Sad About the sort of Soberness with which he sees the whole situation In that moment. Yeah and it's also It's a sort of

[01:33:10] I don't know if it's subtle but you can Miss it if you're not Thinking about it in this way and it's also just sort of an indictment on The media And again on The way in which racism Leads to these consequences Like yes he was shot

[01:33:26] By another black person And you know at the beginning Of the movie there's that title card where he's like I can't remember the exact but it says Like a certain amount Of black men will not Live very long and then Often they are shot by other black people

[01:33:42] Which like when we talk about black and black crime That can be a little dicey But to have it at the end be like Well no one cares that this is happening It's like It kind of balances it out and I think Just really It ties in the

[01:33:58] Sort of the Vietnam Because Fierce is a Vietnam vet And that's And to tie in he says At the end Ice Cube is like well I saw all this stuff happening, trouble stuff happening Abroad but Nothing about what's happening here

[01:34:14] And I just think it's a nice little kind of like Bow at the end of it It's also like if at times The movie veers a little bit into like Single 10 point his finger at the audience And saying like this is important you need to listen

[01:34:26] It's because of this final Speech like this is sort of like The thesis statement of the movie which is These lives are not considered You know there are people Like Ricky getting shot Every day and they're just Listed as statistics to perpetuate Fear mongering in the media

[01:34:44] And we don't consider Their lives they're not Discussed they're not reported on You know they're just Sighted as rise in crime rates And you have those titles At the beginning that are sort of You know warning you Like here's a movie

[01:35:02] You're gonna see four young men and two of them will be dead by the end of this movie right? I mean that's what it's really telling you like you're gonna watch this You don't think of it that Literally I think at the beginning of the movie

[01:35:12] You view it more as place setting but that's really The story he's telling It could be any one of these four kids Two of these four kids you know Um yeah and the final speech is like You know Ice tea Excuse me ice cube In character delivering

[01:35:30] Something if it was ice tea it would just be mother fucker Every other word which I don't think would be as impactful But you have You have doboy saying to the audience Essentially why this film needs to exist In the first place because otherwise

[01:35:42] These stories aren't being told And then they would get told Many many times after this Yes Hollywood's like make that movie again I mean that's the story of Hollywood Is when something like this comes out That's sort of surprising and Makes waves for that very reason and demonstrates

[01:36:00] That there's an audience for this kind of movie Hollywood's reaction is like great We should make this movie 20 times That should be the only kind of movie we make In this whole genre But We should talk about it and Griffin we done the box office for this

[01:36:14] Do you know why? 1991 July 12th 1991 What is it? Really quick Because we didn't mention this But they're friends names Dookie and monster You like dookie and monster Dookie and monster are great Nicknames for like your friends You know what I mean

[01:36:38] I don't know I just like I really wanted to shout that out No it's a great nickname but I While I was watching it this time around I was actually trying to figure out what are their names Because I feel like they just come and go really quickly

[01:36:50] And they say Chris's name a couple times But and then monster wears I think he wears a hat at one point That says monster on it which I guess Tells us which one he is but They're great games I mean that's cool That's a cool look

[01:37:06] Dookie is the one yet with the pacifier He just confidently Has the pacifier Oh no Dookie died Oh really? No in real life He died like literally three years later He was only 22 He was shot like during a fight It's brutal there's another

[01:37:24] The guy who plays the trigger man For the murder Lloyd Avery He like died in prison after like Committing a murder There's some sort of sad stories And they're like you know if you go deep You know you're a little bit more Castless for this movie

[01:37:42] Yeah Dookie just does the first three singleton movies He does Boys in the Hood poetic justice Higher learning and then dies Wow Because singleton like again describes casting That guy where it's just like He came in he had the pacifier I was just like this is fucking hilarious

[01:37:58] Like this guy rules And like and that is credited In the 90s like I remember I had a friend Who had a pacifier that she would like wear around her neck I guess well it was like rave culture too Kind of thing yeah that was

[01:38:10] That was definitely rave yeah then it becomes An apparatus then it becomes means to an end Right it's a distribution system Roll you can use it Sure yeah One other thing I noticed so Watching it again this time I was looking at the younger version

[01:38:26] Of Ricky and I was like Why does he look like Eddie from Family Matters But it can't be Eddie because this is 1991 and Eddie would have been already like a teen, like much older than that. And then I realized it's his brother. Like that's the guy.

[01:38:40] Whoa. Yeah, Donovan McCrary is the brother of Darius McCrary who played Eddie on Family Matters. They looked so much alike. It was crazy. They do. And he's in a couple of episodes of Family Matters

[01:38:55] after this movie. Yeah, I saw that too. I was like, oh, that's so weird. Right. And that's pretty much all he does. I mean, that's his entire career. Neal Long, I mean, we didn't really shot.

[01:39:07] I mean, she doesn't have a ton to do in this movie. She's another one where this is her first movie. Basically, she'd been in like one horror movie and a tiny role before this.

[01:39:16] I was going to circle back to her because I also, one of the big scenes I think we didn't discuss, I think the scene where they sleep together is really, really good, especially because that midsection has been built around a lot of virginity panic for Trey.

[01:39:33] That scene is so like tender and thoughtful. Even his own dad is like, have you gotten any? Right. That's like ass-licking. Sniffing him. Yeah. But the fact that it comes after out of

[01:39:45] Trey crying, right? And then saying I never thought I'd cry in front of a female. And even just the way it's shot versus a lot of sex scenes of the 90s, you know? And even

[01:39:54] the fake fantasy sex scene we've seen already in the movie, I just think is a really good scene. But also your entry point into that is that moment where Neil Long is doing her homework

[01:40:04] in front of the computer and then she hears the gunshots and just sort of flinches and then goes back to work, you know? Yeah. And it's such beautiful, tragic world building. We should also just mention that the sound design is such a huge part of this movie.

[01:40:21] I mean, like when they let the score swell, when they drop out the score entirely, when you're just getting the echoes of be they sirens or helicopters or shots in the background, it just gives it like such a sense of environment. A constant sort of reminder

[01:40:38] of the dangers around them at all times. And then there's that saxophone. 80s, 90s saxophone that was in every serious movie. Throw it in there. Absolutely. Like we need a jazz musician. I mean, that's probably another

[01:40:54] thing Spike Lee is inadvertently turning into a trend by like, you know, bringing in his jazz musician dad to score his movies and then just like having the Stanley Clark did the score for this movie. And he's like a big jazz fusion guy. It's definitely right. Yeah,

[01:41:09] it's that thing. I mean, there's like a natural evolution to how these things develop. And then the Wayne Brothers get in there and people are like, oh, it's a genre. You can't do these things anymore. Damn the Wayne Brothers. Yeah,

[01:41:22] I remember liking that movie a lot, but it's also funny that I probably saw Don't Be A Menace before I saw Boys In The Hood. Yeah, that's not the best way to

[01:41:32] do it. The wrong order. Yeah, it's the wrong order. But that is how that is. I mean, they had already done I'm going to get you sucker, which is like a parody of Black Exploitation. And they're just like in the 90s, they're like, okay, let's,

[01:41:44] you know, what's the trend now? I mean, I'm going to get you sucker is keen on every wins. But still, the dynasty. I always think about Mike Lawrence, the comedian has a bit

[01:41:56] about how he saw spaceballs years before he saw Star Wars. So when he finally saw Star Wars, he was like, this is just unfunny spaceballs. Where are all the jokes? This movie sucks. I've seen this before. The guy was made out of pizza was better.

[01:42:16] So this movie came out July 12, 1991, Griffin. It's the same weekend as Point Break. That is why we have done this box office before. I doubt you remember it, but it is the same weekend as

[01:42:29] Point Break. Was that now was this the first wide weekend because it opened limited in LA before a Wendation wide, right? Well, I'm seeing this. I'm seeing this as like a semi wide weekend.

[01:42:39] It's like 800 theaters, though. Like it's a pretty serious. I think there was like a smaller release, but I was trying to get the dates on it. I mean, the big thing with this movie too is that it

[01:42:48] was sort of like, Oh, I guess I'm seeing July 2nd. That might just be the premiere though. I don't know. Well, I don't know. What were you saying? Sorry. No, that Columbia sort of

[01:42:57] viewed this movie as a flyer back when studios didn't have specialty divisions and they were like, we can make a small movie with an unknown cast and who knows. But then the fact that it got into

[01:43:07] pun, it played on some regard but made such a big splash there and was received so well there kind of gave Columbia the confidence of like, Oh, this might be a major movie if people are

[01:43:20] liking it in Europe, you know, like they thought it was going to be a hyper specific film. And then it turned out to be a lot more universal than they believe. So by the

[01:43:29] time it opened in the States a couple months later, it had this sort of buzz around it not only for like generationally like, you know, kids of this age but also just like the the Hoy Palloy were like, well, this movie just burned up the Quazette.

[01:43:46] It's opening over a point break, which I would think, you know, you think of as point break is ostensibly the more commercial movie. That's the big action movie. It has a big star in Swayze. It's got two big stars.

[01:43:56] And an upcoming star in Keanu. Well, Keanu is sort of like a new star. No, I meant Gary Bucey. Swayze and Bucey. Swayze and Bucey, yeah. But what's number one at the box office Griffin? It's an action movie.

[01:44:07] It's the biggest movie of the year. We've talked about it on this podcast. The Terminator 2 Judgement Day, right? That's right, which came out the week before. So we've this, you know how we somehow like cluster our podcast like sort of identifies certain times in popular culture because

[01:44:23] we keep doing movies from right. So the summer of 91 was a hot summer. There was some shit happening there. It's also just crazy to think that like, here are three major directors who all have, if not their single most defining film,

[01:44:38] one of their most towering triumphs all like at the same time in theaters that you could see like Catherine Bigelow, James Cameron and John Singleton all punching at like their highest. Definitely. Definitely. And number two, Griffin, it's a Disney re-release. Can you remember? That's number two.

[01:44:57] 1991 Disney re-release. It's not the Jungle Book, is it? No. Oh, is it 101 Dalmatians? Yes, it is. 101 Dalmatians making $10 million over boys in the hood and point break. Aisha, we've both been doing the trivia spotting things for film spotting.

[01:45:19] We have. David did it once and dominated and then left retired early. Nichols and May style. I just don't know if I can return after yet completely blowing the doors off. Yeah. Well, last week, not last week, last month I came in dead last.

[01:45:35] So you probably had the better strategy, David. But one of the ones that we were both on Aisha, Josh and Adam were asking everyone to go around all the team captains. So like what's the first movie you remember singing theater? Almost everyone's answer was a Disney film re-released.

[01:45:53] It is just one of those things where it's like if your parents were like, okay. But also it's like if you were born before 1995 that was such a formative part of your

[01:46:04] childhood was probably the first movie you saw in theater was a movie that your parents saw in theaters that was being re-released for the first time in six years and everyone went around almost everyone had that answer of like for me it was the eighth release of Cinderella.

[01:46:17] It was the 1990 release of Jungle Book. I think I was the only one who said a new movie. Which was? I think it was Beauty and the Beast. And I remember, well, I don't really remember seeing it,

[01:46:31] but I've been told that we saw it in Thanksgiving weekend of 1991. So yeah. Right. Yeah. You were small. I'm assuming you were a young person. I was a very small. Because the first movie I saw in theaters I am told was a re-release of John Houston's Annie. Wow.

[01:46:52] You know, like a special screening of that and I have no memory of that. But apparently that's the first thing I saw in a theater. I saw Jungle Book and I remember it and you say I'm a liar.

[01:47:03] But I think I do say I think that's another part of that is that like by 1991, 1992, 93, Disney's releasing new movies that are like there was that golf there like kind of post Jungle Book Robin Hood, right? Where the 80s, the late 70s were dark for Disney.

[01:47:23] So it was just like, oh, you're probably seeing an earlier, better Disney movie in theaters blowing up the box office rather than your first movie being The Black Cauldron. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they haven't even re-released Black Cauldron on in theaters. I would be surprised if they have.

[01:47:40] I am all but certain they never re-released it in theaters because I remember being such a Disney nerd as a kid and when they took it out of the vault and put it on VHS in like the

[01:47:49] mid 90s, I was like, what the fuck is this thing? No one's ever talked about this. But I was just like, this isn't on the posters. They never play clips of this. It's not on the sing along videos for good reason. I'm sorry, all the Black Cauldron fans.

[01:48:05] But it's just it's the erasure of it. It's just kind of incredible how Disney was just like, we don't talk about that. That's the troubled member of the family. It's like that in Song of the South.

[01:48:18] But here's the thing that's insane. They hide Black Cauldron more than Song of the South. True because you got Zippity-Dod. Yeah, it's not the fucking theme songs they put it on the sing along videos.

[01:48:28] Black Cauldron, they're just like, look, it was look, it just got caught up with the wrong crowds. Well, did they have music? I haven't seen it in years. So that's part of the issue, right? You can't isolate the music out of it.

[01:48:41] But I just genuinely when it came out of VHS, I was like, is this new? Yeah, I feel like Black Cauldron is like the sort of the stone of the 80s. It's like we don't really talk about this movie.

[01:48:53] Okay, so Terminator 2 is number one. Boys in the Hood is number two. Point Break is number three. No, no, no, no. Terminator 2 number one. 101 Dalmatians number two. Oh, sorry. Boys in the Hood number three. Opening to $10 million. It's going to make

[01:49:11] 56 domestic and no money internationally, basically, which is going I'm sure to be a that's going to be a story of his 90s movies because yeah, there's just no effort to sell like movies with Black leads to the rest of the world,

[01:49:27] especially in the 90s. Like, you know, it's fucking insane. There was just, I mean, a self perpetuating narrative that just they do not travel. And even like the biggest Black stars in America, Will Smith was often credit as like the first one

[01:49:42] who actually crossed over that Denzel movies and Eddie Murphy movies, you know, that they wouldn't do as well in other countries. But it also felt like the studios wouldn't even try. And to some degree, it was only Black Panther when now

[01:49:55] distributors are starting to go like, oh, maybe we could have just released these movies everywhere all along. Yeah. Well, I mean, with Will Smith, he the thing about him was like he still has not worked with a Black director ever.

[01:50:09] Is that like never in his entire career? Not for film. That's crazy. No. So but like Denzel was happening, he was working with Tony Scott and Spike. Like he, I mean, Moe's I actually can't think of any Black actor besides Will Smith who has never

[01:50:26] worked with a Black director. Like it's impossible to be a Black actor or Black actor. At least before the King Richard movie, the one that he's shooting now is Rinaldo Marcus Green. So that's the first. That's his first. That is why I'll to think about.

[01:50:41] And Knight Shyamalan, I think is the only non-white director he's worked with. Well, and there's Ang Lee. Yeah. We can't forget about Gemini, man. But yes, that is, that is. But no, it does. How dare.

[01:50:54] It does speak to that. And also like, you know, Will Smith has had relatively few Black romantic interests in films. I mean, to some degree, it feels like Will Smith was running his career like a politician. Oh, absolutely.

[01:51:08] You know, like Tom Cruise style going like, how do I make myself seem bankable to overseas distributors? Oh, absolutely. It's very calculated. Yeah. Yeah, right. Because wait, who directed Bad Boys for Life? They're from like, they're like Moroccan, Belgian Moroccan directors, right?

[01:51:28] Adeel and Bilal, yes. Anyway, that's the he just now. The exceptions are all in the last eight years. Yeah. No, five years. Like, yeah, just he just anyway. That is crazy. Number five of the box office griffin. It's a comedy sequel.

[01:51:46] It's a comedy sequel. How recently was the first movie? That's a good question. Because I feel like they're comedy sequels where they're like, let's get this thing out nine months later in their comedy sequels where they're like,

[01:52:00] we waited eight years, we made a mistake. I feel like I know this one maybe. Please always guess it's three years later. Is it from the first one? Is it from the first one?

[01:52:09] It is not. Look who's talking to which is that is the ultimate example of they were like, let's make the sequel now. Like the day it came out, they were like, rush this thing out or honey, honey, honey, I shrunk the, all right, blew up the baby kid.

[01:52:28] Blow up the baby kid. Yes, honey, I blow up the baby kid. Is that the correct answer? No, no, it's not. Okay. I blow up the baby kid. I just want to see what is it and maybe I'm wrong here.

[01:52:38] But I should I feel like those two guests has set me up thinking along the right lines. Is it three men and a little lady? It's not three men and a little lady. A film I have seen. No, you guys are guessing in the

[01:52:50] fact I just wanted to, I just want to just make this clear. Look who's talking came out October 1989. Look who's talking to came out December 1990, 14 months. Yeah. If you had two babies in that time span, it would be surprising. They made two, that's just so fast.

[01:53:07] But isn't Wayne's World like that? Wayne's World is December 93 for two and the first one. Wayne's World is February 1992 for the first one. Wait, now that you say that, is it Bill and Ted?

[01:53:24] It's not Bill and Ted, although that comes out. I want to look it up. The next week, bogus journey comes out. So you're in the right ballpark. Historic time. Just, and Wayne's World three is December. So Wayne's World, yeah, it's like less than two years.

[01:53:39] No, come on. It's a, all right, it's a spoofy movie. It's a spoofy, oh, is it Hot Shots Part D? No. This is now fun. What? We're guessing. Here's the other thing. What a golden age for

[01:53:53] Hollywood just making bullshit comedies like that we like on cable. 1991. It's been three years. Okay. I'm going to tell you it's also not Problem Child 2, which is number nine at the box

[01:54:07] on that. Wow. God. That's another one where I feel like Problem Child 2 came out one week after Problem Child 1. It came out 11 months after Problem Child 1. Thank you. That's how fast. That is so fast. It's like that Pink Panther movie they made after Peter Sellers died where

[01:54:24] they just took all the leftover pieces and had a guy be like, we can't find him anywhere. They shot like 30 minutes of new footage where they're like, this guy's missing. Problem Child 2 is just bloopers. Come on, come on. 91 three years later. So it's an

[01:54:39] 87 original, 88 original, sorry, I'm bad at math. I only understand math when it's box office numbers. Okay, 88 sequel. It's spoofy. There will be a third and final film three years later.

[01:54:56] Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I'm going to be really upset with myself if this is correct and I didn't guess it immediately. Is it Naked Gun 2 and a Half the Smell of Fear? That's right. It's one

[01:55:07] of the best comedies ever made. Funny move. The best one, right? In my opinion, yes, the best of the three. That's the one. Was OJ in that one or was it the other one? Oh, OJ's

[01:55:18] in all three. Oh, he's in all three. Yeah. The third one came out after the murder. He's in all three. But it does have my favorite of the OJ gangs, which is when the USC marching band marches over him.

[01:55:32] He gets like hit by a bus and then a steamroller. Yeah, anyway. It's the one with the queen. It's the one with Queen Elizabeth. No, it's not. That's the first one, isn't it? That's the first one. Right. Yes. No, you're right. That's the first one.

[01:55:44] That has the marching band. Yeah, that's right. Wait, is the one with the Oscars or is it? No, Oscars is third one. The second one is Richard Griffiths. Yes, the scientist. The second identity. And right. So the first one's Ricardo Montalban

[01:56:00] is Goulay 2 or 3. Goulay is 2. Yeah, see, every couple of years I watch all three just because I want to be able to remember which one is which and then by the end of the

[01:56:10] year it's faded and I combine them all into one movie. But I do know that two is the funniest. It's Naked Gun 2 1 1⁄2. The other movies are the top 10. You've got Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. You've got Regarding Henry with Harry Ford himself. You've got City Slickers Ben.

[01:56:26] Yeah. I feel like that's a Ben movie. Oh, hell yeah. Problem Child 2 and The Rocketeer underrated Disney classic The Rocketeer, which we will do on this podcast one day. This is just the thing I've become increasingly obsessed with.

[01:56:38] I feel like we've made you do in recent episodes. But just looking at a top 10 of like 90s, which is just like peak movie star where every single one of those movies is like, oh, that's a blank movie

[01:56:51] pretty much, right? Like not problem child and 101 Dalmatians is a Disney movie. But it's like, you know what? It's a Schwarzenegger movie. Swayzey movie. Right. Leslie Nielsen. Yes. Costner, Harrison Ford, Billy Crystal, and then Billy Campbell, of course.

[01:57:11] Well, that's the other weird thing it represents is when Disney was like, I don't know. We can't make any franchises work. Should we do a 30s superhero who has a jet pack? Yeah. Well, just we'll never stop being the most fascinating misunderstanding of a trend

[01:57:27] when Batman was successful and everyone was like, I think it's the 30s thing that everyone likes to throw back to radio drama. It's just fucking shadow and rocketeer and phantom. And they're like, no, I think one of these 30s movies is going to work.

[01:57:42] Aisha, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you boys. What did we decide on? Pods in the cast. Pods in the cast. Yeah. What a huge start to a career and what a great

[01:57:58] guess to start off our mini series with. It's going to be a good mini. I think it's going to be a good mini. Yeah. It's always just so nice to after covering like a gargantuan career, like fucking Zemeckis to have a couple that we can like.

[01:58:13] Some smaller things. Yeah. That don't take an entire life cycle of some animals to get through. Aisha, people should listen to Pop Culture Happy Hour if they don't already, which is stupid to even plug it on this show because you're constantly the number one podcast

[01:58:29] on the TV and movie charts that we obsessively look at. Yeah. We are, it's a great team. I recently joined after having been a fan for years and it's been great. And listen, if you're not

[01:58:45] listening, you should listen. We're five days a week now. A franchise. Yeah, we are kind of, yeah, we're a franchise franchise. Yeah, you're a franchise. And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe.

[01:59:01] Thank you to Joe Bon and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media. Thank you to our editing team, Alex Barron and AJ McKee. Thank you to Lane

[01:59:15] Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song. Go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit. Go to our Shopify page for some real nerdy shirts and other pieces of merchandise, but the thing doesn't work as well if I say a different word other than

[01:59:30] shirts because the joke is that shirts and shit sound kind of similar. Yeah, of course. Thank you. Tune in. You can go to patreon.com slash blank check. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, for blank check, special feature. I don't know what we're doing at this point because

[01:59:46] we banked up episodes very far in advance. So at this point, it's a mystery. Maybe we're doing whatever one March badness probably that's that's what it's going to be. Yeah, right. So go to patreon where I assume we're doing commentaries on the Rugrats trilogy problem child

[02:00:00] probably or you know, right? We were both rushing to such similar jokes. I mean, and the difference between those two jokes tells you everything about the difference between the two of us as human beings. We got a Rugrat and a problem child. That's who are my co-hosts are.

[02:00:19] Rugrats all day. Rugrats all day. Thank you. Baby's gotta do what a baby's gotta do. Man, David, you've been watching Mary Tyler Moore show recently. I've been telling you to

[02:00:30] get into it. It's a good show. Yeah. I mean, to be clear, I have seen Mary Tyler more before. With cheers, I had recommended to you that it is a good solve for anxiety during these

[02:00:41] troubled times. So you have been rewatching Mary Tyler more in complete. Have you ever watched it, Aisha? Oh, yeah. Actually, I just watched a Mary Tyler Moore episode a week ago. Just turned it on.

[02:00:54] Yeah, it's a great show. I've never watched it from like beginning to end, but it was on Nick at Night all the time, you know, so highly recommend giving it a solid run through

[02:01:03] on Hulu. I just finished the seven season. But David, there is an episode I think in the second or third season in which the voice actor for Stu Pickles appears. And I couldn't understand why my neck was tingling. You were like, huh? Who is this? That's crazy.

[02:01:19] Oh my God, Stu Pickles hot. Right. Recognizably the same voice. Anyway, that's the final plug of the episode. Please watch the Mary Tyler Moore show on Hulu. Everyone involved in the show has died since I started watching it and I find it very

[02:01:35] depressing and eerie, but it's a great thing to watch. No, Ed Asner is still kicking. He just got his vaccine shot a couple of days ago. Fingers crossed. Ed can never die. I will lose it if

[02:01:45] Ed slips off this mortal cliff. He is 91 years old. I wouldn't push all your chips in on Ed. I'm pushing all my chips in on Ed Asner. We're rooting for you, bro. Yeah, for sure. I love him. Tune in next week for Poetic Justice. And as always,

[02:02:03] I want to just say it one more time from the record. Ed Asner will never die. Stop. Don't do that. When is this episode coming out? So it's like Billy Crystal is this guy from the city,

[02:02:28] but he's in like a desert setting and he doesn't fit in, you know? And there's this brown G guy who they don't get along. You know? They don't get along at all. I mean, God, what a premise.