Bright Star with Fran Hoepfner

[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the neighbors are shy with Blank Check.

[00:00:19] If podcasting does not come as naturally as leaves to a tree, then it had better not come at all. One of his many fire lines in this movie. It's hard – Wishaw is so gentle it's actually hard to do an impression. I agree with you but...

[00:00:39] It's so incredibly gentle. I agree with what you're saying. He's like an ASMR youtuber. But I hear that voice. Obviously Paddington is part of this, but I hear the voice and I'm like, I know who that is. That's Ben W. It's got a very distinct voice. Very distinctive.

[00:00:53] He's been in the pocket for so long. Yes. He was kind of born in the pocket, it feels like. I mean, look, I wasn't there, but I wouldn't be surprised if he came out in a pocket. Well, I was watching this and I was revisiting Cloud Atlas,

[00:01:04] and I was like, oh, he's so good in like the late aughts, early tens, then I'm like, he's still good, he's still doing great work. I remember like the two cool girls I was friends with in high school saw him in a play.

[00:01:17] So this would have been early 2000s. Was it Hamlet? I think it must have been. Because that was sort of his breakout. That was his big pick, yeah. And were just like upset. They were like, this is the most astounding guy in the world.

[00:01:30] And that was when he started showing up in like tiny roles in movies, like Enduring Love and stuff. And they were like, you don't understand, this is the guy. So the Ben Whishaw Hamlet was 2004, I was 18. I saw it. And it was like one of those things where

[00:01:44] when it was announced, it was like. Who's this fucking young whippersnapper that they're claiming is ready to take on Hamlet? That's the thing. It's usually Hamlet is the role you get once you're the big boy. You work up to it.

[00:01:55] But then of course the director Trevor Nunn was like, Hamlet's not old. Hamlet is supposed to be in his 20s. And that was his thing. But it still was a statement to be like, we think we found a guy young enough with the clout and the maturity intelligence,

[00:02:11] gravitas to be able to pull off an age appropriate Hamlet. And it was the best production of Hamlet I've ever seen. And it was one of those things where it's like, this'll be a guy. Even with all that said, I don't think.

[00:02:26] And him playing John Keats, I could've seen that. Don't think I could've seen the fullness of Winshaw's run. There are a lot of this'll be a guy guys who don't pan out or it takes longer to pan out. Let me throw out two examples of people, okay?

[00:02:43] And we're going deep so I should just say right up top as quickly as I can. This is a podcast about filmography. It's called Blank Check with Griffin. David, I'm Griffin. David. It's about directors who have massive success early on in their careers, who experience a series

[00:02:54] of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. BD. And this is a mini series on the films of Jane Campion. It's called The Podcastiano. And this is her final film before an incredibly rude

[00:03:11] 12 year break from being allowed to make movies. I say allowed. She had two TV seasons. She took a soft retirement, I would say. Or a long hiatus. She wasn't in any kind of director jail, was she? No, this was self-appointed.

[00:03:24] I mean, in the cut was the director jail and this was sort of the director jail comeback which critically I think was accepted as such. But we'll talk about this movie's release. It was released by a distribution company, humorously enough, called Apparition that barely existed.

[00:03:42] That only existed for six months. This was one of like eight films they ever released before it disappeared and they never really understood how to get things out there. So the movie did not make that much of an impact.

[00:03:52] And then she does the move that unfortunately feels like a lot of filmmakers are stuck into now, especially for her generation where it's like your movies don't get made anymore, do TV. Can you tell me the Apparition movies? Yes, because I did this the other day. Sure.

[00:04:08] I'm not gonna get them in order. Sure, there's seven total. Right, okay. Oh, you're lucky. It's like October to March, oh nine to 10, right? Okay, the last one is The Runaways. Yeah, that's the last major one. There were two ones after that that I've never heard

[00:04:23] of, Spider and The Square. Yes, okay. Neither of which are the spider or the square that you know. David, I would have gotten both of those and I resent you giving them to me. Sorry, you said the last one is The Runaways though

[00:04:32] and I was saying it's not. Well, I was wrong but I knew those titles. So wrong. I always forget the name of it but it's that Australian film collective that's like the two Edgertons, the show. It's a Nash-Edgerton joint starring Joel Edgerton, yes.

[00:04:45] Right, and then Spider is as well. They're part of that Australian group. Nash-Edgertons, yes. You're right, you're right. And David Michaud, that guy. I just said, both Edgertons, Michaud, the guy who directed Hesher is the one non-Australian guy

[00:04:58] in the group and I feel like there's one other guy. Do you think they all make fun of him? Yeah, all the time. He's going in and ozzy. Whenever he's like, when I grew up in America, they go, what? Anyway, go on.

[00:05:08] Okay, so those two come out post Runaways which is wide release, Bright Star and then the other two are, can you give me a hint? Keep them vague though. One is a sequel to a cult hit. Right, fuck. Oh, oh, it's Boondock Saints 2, All Saints Day.

[00:05:28] Correct, one is a period piece much like Bright Star. Young Victoria. Yes, and one is a sort of genre, you know, parody comedy movie. Hmm, it's a genre? It's a black-sploitation. Oh, Black Dynamite. Right, yeah. Anyway, just a funny little run.

[00:05:48] I mean, now I have to say this, but Apparition was Bob Birney who just had like the two most incredible independent box office performances of all time in the early 2000s. He's in charge of IFC films. They released Big Fat Greek Wedding. It makes $260 million domestic.

[00:06:03] It is still the highest grossing romantic comedy of all time by some metric, right? And then he leaves IFC and he starts New Market and New Market releases The Passion of the Christ which for 20 years was the highest R-rated film

[00:06:15] of all time and breaks all sorts of other records. So there was that moment where you're like, Bob Birney is a genius. He is the master of distribution. He can somehow turn these indie films into blockbusters that outgrows big budget studio films

[00:06:29] and then he has a run after that that continues to this day where every couple of years he's like, I'm ready, it's my new company. We're gonna recreate the magic and every single time the company lasts for less than two years releases six movies

[00:06:41] that pretty much fail to connect. He gets one maybe that's like a double or a triple and then the company goes under and it's like Picture House was one of them, Apparition. There was the one that released Drive that I'm forgetting the name of

[00:06:54] that was supposed to be more sort of genre focused. Well, I'm gonna get you that name right now. He always has funding from something and they put the money behind him. Film District? It must be so easy to start a production company. Why don't I do it?

[00:07:06] You should, Fran Pictures. People just give you money and then if you don't do anything, they're like, well. Fran Films. Fran Films? Yeah, why not? 20th century Fran. Yeah, couldn't be good. But do you wanna be part of the 20th century? 21st century. What about 22nd century, Fran?

[00:07:22] I'm not dying so that seems fine. Yeah, you're living forever. We know about you. You are 23 years old, you're six foot one and you're immortal. That's right, yeah. Did I get those numbers right? I usually say I'm five eight but here's the thing

[00:07:35] and we haven't talked about this. I do think I got taller during COVID and I'm not doing a bit. I for years was one height and now I'm a different height when measured. You got, look, I'm not trying to discredit you. I got the long COVID.

[00:07:47] You got some hair height. Sure. Your hair's a little taller than it usually is, I feel like. I don't know. But I feel like, when I stand up, I'm like, whoa, too tall. I think I got taller. Oh, you go like, whoa. Like, isn't it like too tall?

[00:08:03] There's obviously another name you go by which is medium Chicago. That's true, yeah. Well, maybe it was moving to New York that made me tall. Maybe. Like I'll stretch down. And then the New York water makes the bagels tasty and Fran tall. You notice I got tall.

[00:08:16] Well, I haven't actually noticed, but I can check it out. Fran Hofner is our guest today. Fran Hofner is our guest today, editor of Fran Magazine, obviously. 22nd century Fran. Welcome to the Five Timers Club. Thank you so much. Okay, public enemies, aliens. Fucking. The Hosliday. Which one?

[00:08:35] The Hosliday. The Hosliday, and what's the fourth one? I'm forgetting. The Great Mouse Detective. Oh, yeah. Five Timers Club. Now, you wanna know something else that's wild about Fran's run there? What? All of those four previous movies are the movies that Ben got his nicknames from

[00:08:52] in those series. The Hosliday. Bailey Ben. The Great Mouse Fart Detective. Public Ben-emys. Ben Star. Public Ben-emys, Ailey Bens with a dollar sign. Well, so then what do we do about Bright Star? How do we work Ben into that one? Bright Ben. Bright Ben isn't that good. Okay.

[00:09:07] You think we can do better? Ben Star. White, Bright, Benny. You want white in there? Oh, because like White Hot Benny. Is Bright Star Benny kind of funny? Kind of funny. Yeah, sure. It's not bad. I'm just always looking for a different format

[00:09:20] or a different way to riff on it. This is a movie that is about two things that Ben has pursued in his life, fashion and poetry. That's true, yeah. You had a big poetry phase. Absolutely, yeah. I went to the New School for, I guess, writing.

[00:09:34] I don't know. I don't know what you went there for. You were focused on poetry at the time. Yeah, no, I was taking a ton of writing classes. I wrote a lot of poetry. And you were going to like poetry slams.

[00:09:44] This is the period that we talk about. No, I was going to poetry slams. You were slamming. I was never slamming. You went to Def Comedy Jams. You're getting confused. No, I didn't go to those either. They're basically the same. No, I would go to like poetry readings.

[00:09:56] Yeah, sure. Like open mics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Open mic poetry. And you would come with a fucking pog slammer and you'd slam it down. Yeah, absolutely. I'd throw down hard. What would you call the heavy pogs? Slammer. It was a slammer? That was a joke I was making.

[00:10:11] No, I know. I was like that's it? It was called the slammer? It was called the slammer, right? I think so. I can't remember. I think so. I just remember when you got a good one, you were like, oh boy. Look, this is clearly a Blockbuster episode.

[00:10:20] We've established many, many threads here. We have. But can I circle back to Wishaw for a moment? Yes. Yeah. So we're talking about this sort of phenomenon of like, oh, this is going to be a guy, right? If I could throw two other counterpoints

[00:10:34] of like dudes who come out of the theater and it's like, we're telling you this is a leading man. This guy's got movie star potential, right? There's someone like Tom Hardy who very young gets like the Star Trek role and they're like, look, this is a guy.

[00:10:49] And then it takes sort of like eight years for him to figure out his thing. Took him a while. Took him a while. Right? Like he was established and he works after that, but it takes eight years until you're like, oh, that's who he is.

[00:10:58] He figured out his persona on screen, right? And then not to be rude, but we were talking off mic in a recent episode about Benjamin Walker, who's a perfect example of like, well, wait till you see this fucking guy.

[00:11:09] He's tall and he's handsome and he's a leading man. And it just has never connected. Not on film. Not on film. Obviously. He was bloody bloody Andrew Jackson himself. And then he was Abraham Lincoln vampire hunter. His big Marvel role was that, although he was certain,

[00:11:25] I mean, he's Marvel. Franchise movie. Right. Yeah. Guys, they've taken over movies so much that I'm calling movies Marvel. But he was supposed to play Beast in the young X-Men movies. I believe he was first cast, right? It was, yeah, he was like literally,

[00:11:40] it was some scheduling thing. And then it's Holtz and then Peters or the other way around? I think he turned it down. No, it was Holtz the whole time. Oh, it's Holtz the whole time. Peters is Quicksilver. That's, okay. It was Fraser, Kelsey Grammer himself.

[00:11:51] I was like, oh, just the main Fraser. And then it was announced as Walker. And then I think he left it to do Abraham Lincoln. I think he did. He was in the Ron Howard whale, cannibal movie. He did a Nicholas Sparks movie. Yes.

[00:12:05] In the Heart of the Sea? In the Heart of the Sea. I gotta see that. I would love that. The Nicholas Sparks movie is called The Choice. It's really unfortunately not good and really should be good. You know who else is in the Heart of the Sea though?

[00:12:14] Tom Holland. Yes, that's true. But do you know who else is in the Heart of the Sea? And which one? As Herman Melville himself. Yeah, I was looking this one up recently. Because the whole point of In the Heart of the Sea is it's-

[00:12:23] The story being told to him? Exactly, it's like what Moby Dick was inspired by. So it starts with him visiting, I guess, Hemsworth. I think it's Hemsworth. I think it's Hemsworth. Is old Hemsworth? Yeah, or whatever. Like one of them.

[00:12:36] And he's like, tell me your story of whales. I think Holland's just one of the guys in the boat. It might be Holland. I know, but I thought Holland since he's the kid is the one who's like, you've seen the story from who's relaying it to Wishaw.

[00:12:46] Am I wrong about that? You are correct. It is Holland. Okay, thank you. But the whole thing with that movie is- Because I was like, that's his fucking role in the film is that he's the young boy. He's the survivor who remembers it all.

[00:12:55] The whole thing with that movie is you're like, they're hunting whales and you're like, I love it. Teach me how to hunt whales. And then the whale fucks their ship up and then half the movie is them just stuck on the ship

[00:13:03] being like, should we eat each other? And you're like, this is a bummer. I wanted more whale. Anyway. Wishaw, my point is just, he's one of those guys where some of these guys, it just doesn't translate to movies or they just don't get the right roles

[00:13:17] or whatever it is. And Wishaw went from being theater hotshot for pegging this guy as the next dude, right? To then completely acquitting himself incredibly well in supporting roles, small roles in Indian for, in the art house movies. And then he just like every step he does properly.

[00:13:40] He then transitions to leading roles in smaller films. His two franchises are Bond and Paddington. He has somehow come out of this not having to pay his dues and then some bullshit. But yeah, obviously the Bond is, it's a supporting role.

[00:13:55] I would argue that's sort of the best way to do it if you're Ben Wishaw. Of course. He steals every scene he's in. He's in 12 minutes of those movies every single time. He's always perfect. What role doesn't stretch him like outside of what he's good at? Yeah.

[00:14:08] He doesn't look silly. He's like in the pocket. Paddington, he's in the pocket. He's working with like blue ship directors and actors. Well, I was gonna say those two movies are also the only things he does or those franchises are the only things he does

[00:14:20] where he does not seem to be actively dying as sort of his character type. I'm like, oh, he's so robust in the big budget stuff. Such a fragile man. He's withering. I just, my thing with Wishaw. Should call him Ben Withershaw. I saw him in that Hamlet.

[00:14:35] I saw him with my friend Ollie, I'm pretty sure. I grew up in England. We're just gonna get this right out of the way because it's gonna be all over this episode. You guys don't even know. But I did grow up in England.

[00:14:47] Sorry, I was just in the other room. What's up? I, from the years 1995 to 2008, lived in the country England contained within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and North America. You didn't even get to see the Olympics. What? I didn't, I didn't. Whose eye?

[00:15:02] Is it a friend of yours? I don't understand the structure of this. That's what you just said. Is this an initial? Is this a character? Is this David Sims in the room with us now? I said, is this David Sims in the room with us now?

[00:15:16] Yeah, can we speak to him? Knock three times, it could be me. And I remember when Ben Whishaw then popped up in a show called Nathan Barley that some people may remember which was a Chris Morris, if you know Chris Morris, Brass Eye, Four Lions, right?

[00:15:34] Sitcom that was originally supposed to be called Cunt that's just basically- Nathan. Oh, whoa, sorry. That's just basically about the worst trust fund hipster guy ever, right? It was Nathan Barley. Ben Whishaw does not play Nathan Barley. I was gonna say.

[00:15:49] He plays one of the kids at the Vice magazine type place he works called Pingu who Nathan Barley's always like, yeah, you know, like mean to. And we were like, the guy we just saw like fucking smoke the house as Hamlet is playing fucking Pingu.

[00:16:05] Is this show good? Nathan Barley, yeah, really funny. Well it sounds great, I've never heard of it. It's abrasive but it's really funny. Well I love Morris so. And he was also in that thing, Griff, if you remember, Perfume, the story of a murderer. I forgot.

[00:16:19] Where he plays the damn perfume murderer, you know? Right, because Tickford was on him early. Exactly, and so the vibe seemed to be he'd also played Keith Richards in the movie Stoned which is like a horribly bad What Happened to Brian Jones movie.

[00:16:33] And it was like, okay, so this guy's gonna play like little squirrely weirdos, right? Like that's gonna be his zone. He'll do British. And then he was in I'm Not There and you're like, okay. Yeah. Someone's, whatever, he seems, the major directors are plucking him now, right?

[00:16:51] Like he was one of the Dylans. He's one of the six Dylans. Right, I'm trying to remember which time period. He's like the one who's like Arthur Rimbaud who's like the poet. Right, right, love the typecast. Yeah, seriously. I haven't seen that movie in years. That movie is.

[00:17:08] I just watched that last year. One of the many reasons we should do Todd Haynes. You know what I mean? One of the many weird takes on a blank check. Haynes was like my number nine for my quadrant of the bracket last year

[00:17:18] and I kinda regret not putting him on. That's such a good Blanchett in that movie. Obviously Blanchett's great. But you know what I mean with Haynes where it's like. Wait, which one is Blanchett again? She's sort of the like. Sunglasses wearing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:17:31] She's like the Warhol factor. Hell yeah. The don't look back type Dylan. You know, this is before. I think Ledger is unbelievable in that movie. I think that's like one of his most underrated performances. Yes, yes. And I'll say this.

[00:17:46] That's maybe the most I've ever liked Richard Gere. I really like Richard Gere in general. Right. So I think that's a little rude of you to say but I do love the Richard Gere moments. He's not my favorite movie star. I know you don't love Richard Gere.

[00:17:59] I think he's really good in that. He's really good. Yeah. But you know what I mean with Haynes where it's like Velvet Goldmine. That's kind of a blank check. Yeah. I'm not there, absolutely. And then Wonderstruck, of course. He's such a beard. It's that miniseries thing we love

[00:18:14] where it's just like every movie is a wild swing from the one before. All three of them, like Safe is the guarantor that lets him do Velvet Goldmine. You know, Far From Heaven, like Velvet Goldmine doesn't do it. He goes to Far From Heaven.

[00:18:26] That does well enough that it's like, okay can I make this weird Dylan movie? Right. And then that does badly. And then Carol again. They're like, fuck Haynes, okay. What do you want to do? I want to turn this children's book

[00:18:37] into a weird black and white kind of silent movie. Like again, he'll always take the swing. I like all of his movies. Like I defend Wonderstruck. Except for Wonderstruck, which I was like underwhelmed by. I was not Wonderstruck. But maybe I'd like it on re-watch? Maybe.

[00:18:53] And then what was the other thing I was gonna say about him? Oh, Dark Water just feels like one of those things where you're like, is this like for hire? Is this like him just fucking like taking a steady job to recover from a flop?

[00:19:03] Yeah, why is Todd Haynes making this movie? And you're like, oh that's a quietly one of the best directed movies of the last five years. Incredible movie. Anyway. That movie's so good. That's when I remember. The work on that is incredible.

[00:19:12] I'm not there, is when I remember being like, I guess Wishaw is gonna level up. He's not gonna just be the squirrely guy. Right, it's gonna work. It's gonna work. And when he does do squirrely, he picks it well. Absolutely. Like be squirrely in James Bond.

[00:19:26] Be squirrely cute. That's gonna fucking help you. And now you don't have to play like a Marvel villain or whatever, you know? Like he's got his fucking block. And then Paddington is one of those things where that movie was announced as Colin Firth.

[00:19:40] And he was recast like three months before it came out. He was like a late change that I think both helps the movie tremendously. That film would not have connected the same way with Colin Firth as much as I like him. Probably not love Colin Firth.

[00:19:52] On paper when he was announced, you were like. Do we know why they changed? Like was it not working? So he was announcing, you're like, that makes sense. He's polite, right, Colin Firth? Lovely Englishman. And then they played the movie and what's his name? The Harry Potter producer.

[00:20:06] David Heyman? Yes. It just was like, look, we love Colin Firth. He's a wonderful actor. He recorded this for us. We played it. We all watched it. We all agreed. It's weird when Paddington sounds too much like an adult.

[00:20:16] Yeah, I was gonna say he's too much for a girl. Wishaw's voice reads younger. He's too much of a man and Wishaw really helped us because his voice is so gentle. That light, gentle voice. You know, it's like obviously Bright Star

[00:20:28] is sort of his big follow up to I'm Not There. He'd been in that Brideshead Revisited remake that didn't really go anywhere. He apparently, he's in The International, as you say, Tom Tickford. Tickford always, and he's got a small part in Hologram for the King.

[00:20:42] Your favorite movie of all time. Have you ever seen the movie, Fran? No, do you actually like it? Yeah, I do. Griffin is the only person on God's green earth who's ever seen that movie. Yeah, and not only that, I've seen it multiple times.

[00:20:52] I saw it in theaters. I watched it again in pandemic because I was like, am I crazy? Am I gonna rewatch this and think it's bullshit? It's good. Is it better than The Circle? I've never seen The Circle. It has to be. It's just funny that Tom Hanks

[00:21:06] is in two Dave Eggers movies. Anyway. Hanks is also crazy good. I mean, that's the funny thing is like, we talked about how Hanks is still so proud of Cloud Atlas. And you're like, he comes out of Cloud Atlas and is like, I wanna work with Tickford again.

[00:21:22] And then he does Hologram for the King and he's like, I wanna do Eggers again. And then he's like, maybe I should stop following him. All right, okay, okay, I get it. But yeah, I mean, when Hanks was on Bill Simmons

[00:21:33] and Bill Simmons was like, give me your three favorites. And he said Cloud Atlas as one of them. It was truly- He's right. I know, but then Simmons was like, okay, oh yeah, sure. I was thinking more like Splash, you know? But anyway, it was really funny.

[00:21:48] Love Ben Whishaw is all we're, we all agree. We all love him. So that movie is all about they're trying to sell their- He's on Hologram. He's Hologram-billed. Whishaw plays the hologram. That's not true. Yes, the premise of that movie is that they work for some telecommunications company,

[00:22:08] like some Zoom Skype company. It's hollow teleconferencing. You'll see the whole person. Right, and they're trying to make a sales pitch to- The King of Saudi Arabia, I believe. Exactly. And so they set up this tent in the middle of the desert

[00:22:19] and the whole movie is sort of this waiting for Godot thing of once a day the person comes to the tent and goes, the King will not be coming today. Sure, yeah. They have to be ready every day and he never comes.

[00:22:27] And Hanks is just sort of on this quixotic kind of mission to somehow get the King's attention. He can't go through the levels of bureaucracy. And they're in the middle, this tent in the middle of the desert where there are just completely empty skyscrapers being constructed

[00:22:43] where they want development but no one's there. And Whishaw is the guy from headquarters who's going to be the hologram in the presentation. Corporate Whishaw. So he is in the movie for less than three minutes. He gets Anne Ben Whishaw. He better, yeah.

[00:22:56] And most of his role is watching him do tests where they're like, and throw the apple and then he catches the apple in the hologram. Like they just do sort of like. I'm watching this tonight. That's the tick for being like, Ben, we're getting you in there.

[00:23:08] It's so good. And at the end you see him go like, thank you for watching our presentation. You know? He's obviously, the thing I'm not acknowledging which is right after Bright Star. The titular role. And pre-Pattington is The Hour which is this really fun BBC show.

[00:23:23] Yeah that show's great, I watch that show. He did with Rama LaGuerre which is about like launching a current affairs show at the BBC in the 50s. Right. So that's a big one. It was a big Tumblr show. Yeah. People on Tumblr love to go crazy.

[00:23:36] Very big Tumblr show. Because it was sort of like. Right, it was when people were crazy for BBC. Making gifts of The Hour for Tumblr. Sherlock and. Yeah, it's a fun show. He was, he sort of at this point becomes an early thinking woman's internet boyfriend. Absolutely.

[00:23:49] This is the other thing is I start to at this point in time hear every once in a while meet someone who just goes like, he is my number one crush. He drives me insane. Like I cannot stand how much Ben Wishaw turns me on.

[00:24:01] I meet people over years who are just like, I know he's gay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just am driven wild by him. He's a real cutie patootie. That's, I wanna say that's another unique thing about him is like he's sort of the first of that generation

[00:24:18] where it's like he comes out of drama school, he's in plays and he is not convinced to go back in the closet when he goes to movies and TV. He's a very, have you, he is a very thoughtful interview. Yes. Anytime I read an interview with him,

[00:24:33] I just am very struck by how he's never giving like what feel like canned answers. He just feels like a thoughtful dude. He's married to of course the composer of this movie. Yes. Mark Bradshaw. Which is hot. Hot, really hot.

[00:24:50] Even guys like that who are like art house guys, it was just like look when you come to Hollywood just it's don't ask, don't tell. At the very least let's just not acknowledge that. And especially then that's like on the cusp. That's right on the cusp.

[00:25:01] He's that beginning wave of just like I don't have to pretend or allude this at all. Yeah. Yeah. And you know he's carved out just such an interesting career for himself and I love it. He doesn't need to be obviously big star

[00:25:17] but he'll pop up in a Mary Poppins. Which he crushes. He does crush obviously. David and I both just like that movie. He sings this sad fucking song. Well of course he does, yeah. He plays the grown up Banks child. He's the grown up boy. Oh of course.

[00:25:32] He plays the little boy which is like it's him and Emily Mortimer which is really good casting. Yeah. They both feel like grown up Disney children in their Britishness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's got this one scene. David sees a screening and he's like

[00:25:44] I don't care for this thing at all but Wishaw has one scene where he just goes like atomic. You will not believe it. Suddenly he just fucking grabs you and it decimates. It's like emotionally devastating. And you cannot believe he pulled it out of the movie

[00:25:58] otherwise not really gripping. And I look, my only issue is when I watch it and then I rewatch the movie at some point I was like what are kids getting out of this? I can't imagine much. But for us we're like fucking losing it. Anyway, love him.

[00:26:13] I'm trying to think of any. Well I thought he was really funny Uriah Heep in David Copperfield. He's almost a little too big in that for me which is a crazy thing to say about him. Uriah Heep though is such a big ridiculous,

[00:26:23] I mean the funniest thing about David Copperfield is he's like who could be fucking with me? And Uriah Heep's like I have no idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it might be this guy. But that's another movie where I saw that. I sort of like that David Copperfield

[00:26:37] but I don't know what the target audience is for it because it's a little too elementary for adults. Yeah, I mean I saw it at Toronto pretty tired and was like I thought that was cute and I like the spirit of it. Yeah, it's totally nice.

[00:26:50] I haven't remembered it very well. It's just weird to see him go big and it's sort of like the Hanks thing where I'm like I don't wanna see Ben Whishaw be bad. Sure. I don't wanna see this, he's gentle. Don't do this to me.

[00:27:00] I didn't, Griff, I did not watch Fargo season I wanna say four? The Chris Rock season? Three, I haven't watched it either. He's on that? He's in four. I keep forgetting that people were in it. It's Chris Rock, Jesse Buckley, Jason Schwartzman, Ben Whishaw, and Jack Houston.

[00:27:16] Right, three is McGregor. Okay. And then there's Ben McGregor twins and Carrie Coon. I've never seen them. Thouless. Thouless in naked mode. It is, really? In season three, yeah, but that season is awful. She means Mike Lee's naked, not that he's naked. Oh, oh, oh. Sorry, yeah, yeah.

[00:27:30] I was gonna say, I forgot Dong in that. I mean Mike Lee, he's twisted. Right, because I mean. Scary Thouless. So right after Bright Star 2009, then it's like Tempest and The Hour starts and then 2012 obviously Skyfall Cloud Atlas and then since then it's like Zero Theorem.

[00:27:48] Yeah, well he's really good in The Lobster. Paddington, Lobster I was gonna say is really good. Suffragette doesn't exist. I remember him being good in the Danish Girl, a horrible movie. Right, he's Herman Melville as I said. Right, he's in Mary Poppins. Hologram for the Kings, the hologram.

[00:28:01] That movie Little Joe kind of was a festival movie that didn't go anywhere. That movie Surge was a festival movie that didn't go anywhere. People like that show with him and Hugh Grant. Very British scandal. Oh, very English scandal. Very English scandal.

[00:28:11] And then yeah, he plays Rabbi Milligan in Fargo? This is what I'm saying. Can no one give me the Fargo report? Anyway, love Ben Whishaw. Oh and he's doing the Iris Sax movie now. Oh good. That's nice. Perfect match. With Adele Exocopolis. Love her, miss her. Franz Rogowski.

[00:28:30] It's like a great fucking international hotty cast. Is this The Avengers 5? Yeah. That's my internet boyfriend right now. Two men who've been together for 15 years and what happens when one of them has an affair with a woman. He's cute.

[00:28:40] I wanna watch those three people have sex with each other. Yeah, no Franz Rogowski's amazing. The other lead actors in this movie we have to talk about. One we've got, Abby Cornish, who when I see this movie I'm like, okay. She's amazing.

[00:28:57] This is gonna be a big actor. Well and let's acknowledge she's in two Australian indies. The first of which is Somersault. Yep. Directed by Kate Shortland who goes on to, of course, direct Black Widow. Which has. A movie that was definitely directed by her entirely. Sure.

[00:29:11] And has her fingerprints all over. Somersault has Sam Worthington. That's the other thing. So that's the movie that becomes Sam Worthington's calling card. Where people are like, this is a sturdy Australian man. This is a new crow, a new legend.

[00:29:21] Right and here she is, here's a new ingenue. Right, both of them I feel like that's a calling card. And two years after that she does Candy. Which is like. With Ledger. Heath Ledger going back to Australia. And it sort of double verifies her as like,

[00:29:33] this is the new Australian leading lady. I've seen that movie. It's like a drug addiction movie. Both those movies are good. She's good in it. Both those movies are good. And she's really good in both of them. Yeah and then she pops up in Goodyear.

[00:29:43] She drinks some wine. She pops up in Elizabeth Golden Age. Stop loss. Yeah I never saw that one. This is the period of time where they're just like, well she's clearly gonna be a thing. Bring her around, cast her in everything. And she's one of those people where

[00:29:54] this often kind of dooms you. Where she's like being put above the title as like the fourth or fifth lead in movies. Because Hollywood is so certain that she's inevitable. And then none of those movies kind of connect. Yeah and it's like.

[00:30:07] And then this was the one where people were finally like, oh that's what she does? And she's wonderful in this film. I think. I think it's a great performance. Amazing performance. She plays Fanny Bronson. I kept on in my mind the whole movie.

[00:30:19] Keep on going like, it's Bryce right? And post this, Ben do you like her? I'm sorry you seemed like you wanted to say something. I mean those fits. Well we're gonna talk about that. She's throwing. She's throwing. But everyone continues to feel they know how to use her.

[00:30:34] She's in movies. She's like limitless. She's on McDonald's. Soccer punch. Martin McDonald likes her. The McDonald one is almost the most offensive because it's like. He waits for her. He's trying to write a good part for her. He wastes her both times. Twice wasted her entirely.

[00:30:47] She hasn't been in any of his theater stuff has she? I don't think so. I mean like it'd be one thing if he like made use of her on stage. It's just so refreshing because he clearly appreciates her talent and both of those roles are so thankless.

[00:30:58] Her defining characteristic in Three Billboards is that she loves her husband's penis. That's truly like, who is this woman? Why is her tic? She can't stop talking about how great her husband is. Doesn't he have some line where he's like and you have a great vagina or something?

[00:31:11] There's some big exchange like that where you're like, I don't know if this was supposed to like go over but it just clunks. Well and she keeps the accent too and I remember like the 10th wave of discourse on that movie is like,

[00:31:23] why does he have an Australian wife in Missouri? But you'll find those folks anywhere. I'm like that's the last thing we should complain about. Is it the RoboCop remake? Yes which sucks. That's like, I think of that and obviously this is colored by my dislike

[00:31:37] of that movie overall but I think of that as like the prime example of just like Abby Cornish. You were supposed to be a star, you never totally connected, you're still established enough that you're in the running for the reboots

[00:31:50] that aren't the top level but are C level and we put you above the title and your role is completely thankless but you're in it a lot and it just nothing connects. She's in Jack Ryan? For a season and then I think she's gone.

[00:32:03] She was like the female lead for the first season and then I think that show got new me pilled. Hey, it happens to us all. She's in Geostorm? Right. Oh yeah. In which she's third, sorry fourth bill, Gerard Butler, Jim Sturgis, Geostorm, Abby Cornish. We all know?

[00:32:22] Gerard Butler and Jim Sturgis play brothers? Really? In Geostorm? And is Abby Cornish like the president's daughter or is she like the young environmental council person? Looks like she's playing a secret service agent. What else has Geostorm been in?

[00:32:39] Geostorm just did a great King Lear, I don't know. Geostorm did a Moonfall, Day for Tomorrow. I would love to meet. Geostorm and Moonfall I gotta say are just both evidence of like if those guys are gonna do these kinds of movies, scan them back together.

[00:32:53] Put them back together. They need to be. It hasn't been the same. Because the whole thing with Moonfall is the special effects are kind of amazing. He is incredible with that. Because he knows what he's doing and everything else is such dog shit

[00:33:07] and you're like, I know Devlin's a hack but you need, he at least knows how to put these pieces together for us. Devlin has the hack sentimentality down pat. Right. And Geostorm was one of those movies where it had some of the most expensive reshoots ever

[00:33:22] because they were like, you fucked up all the action stuff. Right, because he doesn't know what he's doing. They had to bring in fucking second unit guys to come in and reshoot. You forgot the Geostorm! Right. I just imagine some like Al Pacino with a cigar,

[00:33:34] with some old exec watching, he's like, where's the Geostorm? There isn't as much Geostorm in that movie as you would want. That was the big complaint. It was they fucked it up. And then like fucking Emmerich now co-writes movies with his composer and shit.

[00:33:47] They're both struggling to find a collaborator. I don't know why they're doing it. Get back together. Anyway, the third person I wanna talk about, just briefly, before we get into this movie. Perry Fox. Oh, Paul Schneider. I mean Perry Fox, shout out, nice to see her. Right.

[00:34:00] Lovely performance. Paul Schneider. Giving the performance of the decade? In my opinion, flooring performance. What the fuck happened here? Okay. What happened to this guy? Huge, humongous sidebar because he is one of my guys for the 2000s. He's amazing, he's a genius.

[00:34:16] And it just felt like it was build, build, build. All the real girls, right? He's one of the David Gordon Green collaborators. Much like Danny McBride, he has a David Gordon Green classmate at North Carolina School of the Arts who has no intention of becoming an actor.

[00:34:31] He wrote All the Real Girls with David Gordon Green. Gordon puts, Gordon Green puts him and McBride on camera in George Washington. And both of them are so good that he gives them bigger parts in All the Real Girls. He co-writes it with Schneider.

[00:34:43] Then that becomes a calling card. And then it's like, I know you detest Elizabethtown, but he is very good in that. He's totally fine. Very good in Family Stone. He's like building up in the big ensemble cast. Jesse James. My friend, he is incredible in Jesse James.

[00:34:57] Yeah, and then. He is so fucking good holding his own against people who are just like. So intense. He's in Lars and the Real Girls. He's great in that. Is he kind of the straight man? He's the brother-in-law. But he is so fucking,

[00:35:09] like that is such a good normal guy performance. That kind of thing I talk about being so difficult where it's like this guy's just fucking normal. He's just like a steady dude. He's so good at that. And then he gets cast on Parks and Recreation.

[00:35:24] The year this comes out. Right, and you're like, wow, this will be the thing that escalates him. He's gonna be the fucking straight man on this. The new office. Yeah, he'll be Krasinski, right. But I just remember thinking when he got that role,

[00:35:34] I was like, damn, Parks got one of the most promising actors of the generation. Since then, he's not given one film performance that's registered with me at all. No, now this is what's weirdest about it? I do want to say,

[00:35:47] I did see him in Straight White Men on Broadway. Okay. Which was with Armie Hammer. Is that guy ever in the news recently? And wasn't there someone? I don't know who that is. There was someone, it was like one of those Broadway dramas

[00:36:02] where they just built the cast out all famous to sell tickets. Right. Josh Charles, right. And he was really good. And I was like, Paul Schneider, he's still good. But he stopped being in movies. Now what do you want to say? Okay, what I was gonna say is,

[00:36:14] first of all, when he's on this meteoric rise as a character actor, it's like, you don't understand, I never intended to be an actor. This wasn't my ambition. I don't think of myself as an actor. I really want to direct. I'm going back to directing.

[00:36:27] 2008, he writes and directs his movie that makes no impact whatsoever. It's a pretty bird, I think it's called. Right, so that's right before this and kind of concurrent with the Parks and Rec first season premiering. Then Parks and Rec premieres. I am in a minority

[00:36:45] where I like the first season of Parks and Rec more than what the show becomes after that. That's quite the minority. I'm aware. Although I'm not aware I'm getting dark sky. Sam Donsky once wrote a great piece about that for Grantland about like- America's hottest writer.

[00:36:59] One of our great writers. Shout out Sam Donsky, if you're listening. Sam, you're so cute. I miss you from Twitter. But that really made me rethink it. That was like when Parks was hitting its stride also of like being super nicecore, getting a ton of viewership.

[00:37:14] Right, because Parks eventually- Definitely struggles. I don't really care for what Parks and Rec becomes. I think it does feel too nicecore and all this shit, whatever, right? Like I like nice shit, obviously. I fucking love the Paddington movies. But like I don't love what the show becomes.

[00:37:31] I don't think the first season is great, but I think by the end of it, I was like, huh, they're carving out an interesting thing here that's different than The Office. And he's great. And then I think they get- And he's great. And their dynamic is interesting.

[00:37:42] Really good. Is interesting in that first season. Really good. And then he immediately gets sidebarred. The show gets too nice. She becomes too competent, too girl bossy. Like all this sort of shit. Well, it's the Mike Schur problem of once he gets couples together,

[00:37:53] he's like, they're so nice together. I will do nothing to mess with this now. The show just becomes like all sweet. I don't know. No, no, I really don't like- I never finished the first. I don't care for it. Not claiming the first season is a masterpiece,

[00:38:06] but I like what it was intending to do and what it gets close to pulling off. And I like the Schneider in it. Schneider does that first season. Season two, he's clearly getting sidelined, right? He gets paired with Rashida Jones. Right. And that's sort of like a write-off.

[00:38:20] And now like Chris Pratt has been elevated. Chris Pratt's breaking out. His role is no longer Rashida Jones' fucking ball and chain. And he's becoming like Brad Gessner. Right. Bright Star comes out, he's getting like critic awards. People are like, can he be-

[00:38:34] He won the National Society of Film Critics Circle. Right, they're like, can he be the guy we will into a Best Supporting Actor nomination? The nomination doesn't happen. They announce he's leaving Parks and Rec. And the company line is, his movie career is exploding now.

[00:38:47] Like this Bright Star thing is huge. And it just, we both agreed, the opportunities he's getting, he doesn't want to be kept here on this show. He always will be part of the firmament of the show. We'll have him come back. Maybe he'll come back, right.

[00:38:57] He's being transferred to different divisions. Yeah. Right, and what happens is, his film career completely flatlines. And when he does interviews years later, he was like, I was unceremoniously fired from that show and they never once offered to bring me back.

[00:39:11] That was this weird company line where they said, like, he will still exist in the universe. He's transferred divisions. He'll come back in. There was never any overture at any point in time. I would have done it. Right, right, right.

[00:39:21] But it is bizarre that he does do stuff. He's done some TV. Why has no one known how to use him for the last 12 years? I don't know. I don't know. He's so good. He's so good. Part of what's amazing about this performance

[00:39:37] is that it's sort of just a normal guy performance in a period piece, which I think period pieces often forget to have. Or they forget that just like people in the past were kind of normal also. Yes, and it's a part that people could,

[00:39:51] that most people play so arch. What is so disarming about it is that he absolutely avoids the archetypes of how this type of guy is played in terms of the narrative function. Right, yes, the problem. Right, right. It's a real like Renoir,

[00:40:09] like the great tragedy of the world is that everyone has their reasons. Had you ever seen this movie before? No, I had not. Right, I thought I remembered that. This was your first watch. But you were aware that Paul Schneider was in it

[00:40:19] and you had maybe heard me say that he like hits eight three-pointers. No, and I knew that. And it's like. And then I'm like, you don't understand. This guy just absolutely pounds it. It had been like a stupid blind spot of mine,

[00:40:29] especially because I was such a Paul Schneider fan for the last decade plus. He was the biggest appeal for me and I don't know why I never got around to seeing it. Can I just say, like 10 years ago, whatever it was, my friend, Kamen Volkovsky,

[00:40:46] former trivia teammate of ours, who's a great AD, has worked with some of the best directors, works with David Gordon Green all the time and all sorts of fucking rad people. He was the AD on a movie this year that was insane and I forget what it was.

[00:40:59] Well, I'm gonna look it up for you right now. The Many Saints of Newark or Halloween Kills? Well, he was second unit on those. Sure, maybe it was both of those. I don't know. He is great. Dead Don't Die. That's pretty cool. He does awesome stuff. Great.

[00:41:13] But he was like, I'm gonna go see Holy Motors with my friend, you wanna come? Sure. And I like, go see Holy Motors as I often want to do, I am late and I get there right as the movie is starting.

[00:41:24] So I like come in in the dark and like cozy up next to Kamen and watch this movie. You've done that to me multiple times, right? Right, that is like, I believe that's how we met was me showing up late to a movie. And I slide in there,

[00:41:36] I watch Holy Motors, fucking profound experience, amazing movie, lights come up and we're just like, holy shit, that thing is incredible. And I look over and the friend next to me is Paul Schneider. Oh my God! Hey, Paul, yes!

[00:41:47] And then Paul Schneider and I take the subway home together and talk about fucking movies and shit. And it was just like, this guy rules as much as I want him to. I'm such a fan of his, his entire perspective on acting in film

[00:41:58] and like his excitement over that movie is so infectious. And I'm like, this guy, right, this guy is the fucking best. He's the coolest guy. Right. And that's the only time I ever met him. Sure. But even more so since then, at that point in time,

[00:42:10] I was like, how weird that Paul Schneider has been kind of laying low for the last three years. But then it doesn't seem so weird if it's just been a couple of years since your last movie or whatever. Right. And then the last nine years,

[00:42:19] I'm just like, what the fuck's going on here? Look, if you look at his thing, it's like he's been in some movies, although really since Rules Don't Apply, which I forgot he's in that. Right. Which is 2016, he's only done a couple of films. He's done, since then,

[00:42:33] you know, he was in that TV show Channel Zero that was the sort of like, fuck, what's it called? Creepypasta show. Oh. Was that with the Tooth Man? I always had to see the Tooth Man. There was the Tooth Man and they did Candle Cove.

[00:42:45] They would do adaptations of famous creepypastas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot the two things that he's in. What was the other one you said? Candle? Candle Cove, which is sort of this idea of like, don't you remember that we used to watch

[00:42:58] this disturbing TV show when we were kids? And then like everyone's forgotten about it, but it's some show we watched. Oh, sure, okay. You know, classic creepypasta. I forgot that the two things he does after Bright Star slash Parks and Rec, neither which connect,

[00:43:11] but felt like they were on the path of his career. Water for Elephants. Where he's the superstructure. Yeah, he's the water. I don't fucking know. The movie is told by, I believe, Hal Holbrook playing old Robert Pattinson, of course. Yeah. And Paul Schneider's the guy interviewing him.

[00:43:29] He's like the Bill Paxton of the Titanic. Hal Holbrook is actually a time traveler and he is actually old Robert Pattinson. Of course. And then Away We Go. He tentated himself. Fuck it, sorry. Away We Go felt like, oh, Paul Schneider's playing one of the fucking relatives.

[00:43:45] Like he probably kills it in three scenes. And then that movie just doesn't exist, doesn't connect. Yeah, the only thing that movie killed was quality. But right, he like does the Babymakers. Frank, make us smile. Okay. He does the Babymakers. Away He Went.

[00:43:59] Which is a Jay Chandrasekhar movie with him and Olivia Munn. He does Flowers of War, which is that hugely expensive. Isn't it Jungle Moon? Yeah, that like doesn't connect. With Christian Bale and- Right. Cafe Society, he's got a big role in.

[00:44:12] Roots Don't Imply, he's got a fairly big role in both of those movies are huge flops. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. You know, he was in three episodes of Nos 4, ah, 2. Five episodes of Tales from the Loop. The license plate. Sure, which we've talked about not existing.

[00:44:31] Two episodes of Assassination of John. Look, it bums me out simply because I think he's a very talented guy and this performance is so special to me. Here's another thing about this performance. You're just like, and I had heard for over a decade

[00:44:45] that he was amazing in this. You're just like, there's no way he's gonna pull off the Irish accent. He's got such a specific Southern drawl, Paul Schneider. And he can sort of shut it off and do like low energy, like mid Atlantic, right?

[00:45:00] But you're just like, Irish is tough. Most American actors who have tried to do Irish really embarrass themselves. Like it fucking demolished Cruise and Kidman who's Australian, right? His accent's so fucking good. It's amazing. His accent's great. So good. But it's as Fran said,

[00:45:19] there is like something modern about his performance that maybe shouldn't work, but totally does. Yeah, because I mean, he's playing a boorish character, but he's also showing why some people like hanging out with boorish people. He's not completely repulsive. I find him pretty seductive in it. He's charming.

[00:45:38] He's like a trust fund kid. He's a fairly good hang, but you're all. He's not bad intention, but he's mad. He's the guy that when your friend is like, you're like, I know, but you know, he's fun. He's not a bad guy if you get to know him.

[00:45:48] This is a movie about having a boyfriend with a roommate. Yeah. And like that roommate could be anything. So this movie, it's directed by Jane Campion. She also wrote it. It's called Bright Star after one of John Keats' poems. It's about the poet John Keats.

[00:46:04] Do you know John Keats? Died young. Died young. Who died young, famously died young at the age of 25. He did live sad. He did die young. Romantic poet. Classic romantic poet. Probably the most classic in that he had this tragic life and death. Sure. There's Byron.

[00:46:21] Percy Shelley also died super young too, I think. He is crazy. Yeah. He's a crazy guy, that guy. He died at sea, which is quite romantic. I was reading something that said he died holding onto a Keats poem. That there was one in his jacket.

[00:46:35] They were really, that he kept with him always and then drowned with it. I will say. What's more romantic than that? Was a poem in your pocket day when he died? Was a poem in your pocket day when he died? Yeah, it was a poem.

[00:46:45] Do you folks remember that? No. Did you ever do that in school? What? No, I don't know what you're talking about. It's like, you're kidding. It's one of these things that I feel like whatever poetry association has tried to make like an informal holiday for like 25 years

[00:46:57] and it's never really connected. Yeah. Where they're like, you don't know that April 23rd is poem in your pocket day and you're supposed to carry a poem in your pocket to like reassert the power of poetry. I remember my school pushing it on me once or twice.

[00:47:10] Milton, you know? I mean, I went to a stupid school. Yeah. So Jane Campion. It's a heavy pocket. Let me give you a little, obviously she does it in the cut and then takes a sabbatical from filmmaking. Partly wounded by the poor reception of the film.

[00:47:25] Just that it just doesn't really get a shot. It doesn't get a fair shake. But also partly because she's got a nine year old kid and she's like, I've been doing this. And apparently she got into meditation. She made a couple of short films,

[00:47:40] something called The Water Diary that's in a series called Eight. Okay. That had like Gus Barnaway, Gus Van Sant, I don't know, never heard of that. Something called The Ladybug which is part of To Each His Own Cinema. Okay. IMDB entry classic where you're always like,

[00:47:54] what's this other movie this director? Oh, it's some massive anthology film. That's how she meets Greg Fraser and Mark Bradshaw who she collaborates on this movie. Greg Fraser obviously who I think is one of the top directors of photography working today. But this is his first particularly,

[00:48:12] this is his first movie really. This is his breakout. Yeah, he'd made little movies before then. But this movie is so beautifully shot. Of course he shot Dune last year. He's shooting The Batman this year. Like he has graduated to like the DP everyone wants.

[00:48:26] Zero Dark Thirty, Eight, shot Mandalorian and Rogue One. So that's. Foxcatcher which is a beautiful looking movie, killing them softly. Where is he? When she does, where is he? Bennett Miller? Not Foxcatcher. Chilling. Is he chilling? Like a villain. We need him back.

[00:48:41] He was recently papped with Channing. They had lunch in Soho or something. Cool thing to do first of all. Seriously. We need him back. He has been working on, fuck I looked it up. Cause Foxcatcher was like 10 years in the making

[00:48:55] and the only reason he made movies sooner was because Moneyball got thrown to him. But he takes a long time fucking developing. Just because we're on topic, one of my close friends back in Chicago once did one of the more deranged double features of Paddington and Foxcatcher.

[00:49:09] Just back to back. And is always like this is the weirdest day of my life. Cool thing to do. Bennett Miller, he's one of those guys who's basically like I don't like this enough to do it all the time. Like it's a lot for me.

[00:49:20] So I take that. He's trying to get a Christmas Carol made. Right. He's long had a Christmas Carol project. Right. I think he's doing like a very sober. I believe that's the idea. It would be a very realistic or something. I don't know.

[00:49:33] But anyway, but it's one of those things that like God knows if he's actually still working on that or if that's just the last thing he was trying to make. I think he's also one of those guys who surprisingly does pretty anonymous TV commercials

[00:49:43] for a lot of money. Well, good for him. Like where you'd just be like, oh he does the Lexus campaign. I hope Channing Tatum showed him Dog. Channing Tatum has a film called Dog coming out that he directed. And I recently saw a quote from Soderbergh

[00:49:55] that was like I saw it, it's good. And one other Tatum collaborator was like, yeah, give him some notes. I hope he showed it to Ben and Miller as well. I'm really excited. But like James Gray does a weird amount of like Revlon ads. Sure, sure.

[00:50:08] Where it's just a movie star being like, what's my secret? And you're like, this is just shot by a photographer. Like anyone could do this. There's no narrative. I think Ben and Miller does a lot of that type of shit. And doesn't he date an Olsen twin?

[00:50:21] I don't know, maybe. Okay, cool. I think he does. I can look it up for you. I think he dates the one who is not. He dated Ashley Olsen. Are they not still together? Not seeing anything post like 2014 about this. So I don't know.

[00:50:36] But they definitely dated at some point. She was in her late 20s, he was in his 40s. Sort of his muse. Her money ball. She was his favorite. While she's making In the Cut, Jane Campion reads Andrew Motion's biography, Keats, a biography.

[00:50:51] So she gets, she says I'm not like a poetry expert, but I'm very drawn to this relationship he had and these letters they wrote each other. With Fannie Bromley. Which are not published until after she dies for kids publishing. Right.

[00:51:03] So she's sort of like, that resonates with her. So she's thinking about that. She wants to make a movie about younger people. That's interesting to her. Suddenly it's like oh, they're in their early 20s. That's why Greg Frazier is in his 20s. Mark Andrews is in his,

[00:51:17] like she's collaborating with younger people. So maybe it's a creative reboot. Yeah, yeah. She's seeing things through a younger person's eyes again. She's got her younger daughter, who I believe she home schooled at least for a little while.

[00:51:30] And she was in some of those short films, I think. Possibly, sure. Right, that makes sense. I think that's when she starts acting. Anyway. Is Ginger and Roses the same year as this? The year after? Which is Alice's? 2012, so it's a couple years later.

[00:51:44] Okay, I have no sense of time anymore. Anyway, so she's doing tons and tons of research. So that's another reason this takes a while. She did say, I was drawn to Percy Shelley as well, because he's got a crazy story. But with Keats, she liked that there's innocence

[00:52:00] and purity with his story, that he was so sweet. He was inquiring, he was interesting, he was a passionate friend. I think she was sort of interested in making a non-sexy movie that's still romantic, but isn't. It's sort of defined by its chastity in a lot of ways.

[00:52:15] Right, yeah. That was not as daring in its sexual content. It's dong-less. I mean, we should just say, it is a dong-less film. But basically, I just feel like she's sort of semi-consciously, semi-unconsciously swerving away from her last couple movies, right? Sure. Yes, no, I agree.

[00:52:35] Now, I just want to say, because I had never seen this film before, I am famously bad at time management, infamously bad at time management. Wait, I'm sorry, I was just in the other room. What? What are you talking about? You?

[00:52:52] Did you watch this on 1.5 speed or something? No, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't. It wasn't that bad, but my plan was to watch this last night. Okay, I was gonna say, all right, okay, so I said this to Fran in the car while we were driving up.

[00:53:04] I was so worried about this. Because yesterday, you and Ben watched all four Jackass movies. We went to a Jackass-a-thon where we sat in a theater at the Museum of Moving Image and watched all four Jackass movies, and then a Q&A.

[00:53:16] I didn't ask Griffin this, but I was thinking, because I know you like to watch the movie. I'm not blaming you, but it would have been wise probably. What if there's a great face from Fran? If one of the two of you texted me on Tuesday or Wednesday

[00:53:32] and said, you should watch this before the Jackass marathon. I'm not blaming you. Nor should you. It would have been to the benefit of the show. Because I watched four Jackass movies, then Ben and I got dinner, and then I went home

[00:53:43] and I tried to watch Bright Star, and I was like, I cannot adjust to non-Jackass. Yeah, that's insane, Griffin. No shit! I had to watch Jackass 2.5 in order to fall asleep, because I was like, Jackass is the only thing I understand now.

[00:53:55] So then I woke up early and watched this. Okay, well, I mean, I was just afraid you weren't gonna pull that off. I was assuming that was your plan all along. I did pull it off, but I was just like,

[00:54:03] this is a dreamy movie, and I'm watching it, drinking coffee, being like, okay, come on. I maybe was less alert than I wanted to be for a movie that very much lulls you. Here's my advice. Don't watch the movie day up.

[00:54:17] I know you say that, but my fresh takes, the fresh takes. Anyway. But sometimes things like days later hit you in the shower or something, you know? That's true. Look, I tried not to watch it day up. I tried to watch it last night, and I was like,

[00:54:28] where are the nut shots? This is not a movie. This is not how movies work. We put a bunch of butterflies in a room. This is what happens. So. Hi, I'm Keats. Hi, I'm John Keats. I mean, look, The Butterfly Farm Fact is one of Campion's inventions.

[00:54:46] She admits there definitely was not a butterfly farm down there, but he liked butterflies and wrote about them, and I was like, there should be some butterflies. Cool thing to do. But obviously this is also post-Holy Smoke and In the Cut, which are contemporary films.

[00:55:00] Her returning to beautifully costumed films, and boy is it beautifully costumed. Don't you agree, Ben? Absolutely. I don't remember the name of the character, but she's like a citrus. Fanny has incredible looks. People are mean about them. All these poets are like, oh, you make clothes.

[00:55:20] They're a little snowy. She does look sort of like Mad Hatter, White Rabbit, in that first scene, and then it's kind of all normal from there. But the movie starts with her loudest outfit. I would say I do like her outfit. Her outfits are always 10% louder

[00:55:32] than what everyone else is wearing, especially the women. You definitely are always noticing, oh, she's a little avant-garde or whatever. Her hat game. The hat game is crazy. I mean, you do always, in the way where I think all these characters

[00:55:47] are made to feel very normal in a period setting, I think having a friend who's always showing up in one insane accessory, the Ben for instance, that's a normal thing to have. She also, much like Ben does with his closest friends, when she meets him is like,

[00:56:01] you should really be wearing velvet, and a darker blue would look good on you. Ben is always trying to give you an eye fashion advice. He wants to restyle us. I gotta tell you some news that just came down the wires. It's really good news.

[00:56:13] David Lynch has joined the cast of Steven Spielberg's upcoming film, The Fablemans. What? Isn't that cool? That rules. Undisclosed, guarded, secret role. Wow. Anyway, isn't that the best? Isn't this movie gonna be the best movie of all time? And it's Friday too. That's true. TGIF.

[00:56:30] That's a great move. TGIF. That just broke. Anyway, okay. Fanny does throw some great looks. We'll talk about that. So she puts the money together with Passing Day. That's the only Oscar nomination this movie gets. It's sort of an undeniable Oscar nomination. It doesn't win, does it? No.

[00:56:45] This is Janet Patterson's last credit before she passes away. Good question. We shouted her out in a previous episode, but most of her career is campy, and she does very few films outside of campy collaborations. She was both the costumer and the production designer of this film.

[00:56:59] And was fairly reclusive, never did interviews, never went to award shows. It's not her last film, because she actually did the costumes for the wonderful, far from the madding crowd, hell yes. What's his name? Vinterberg. Vinterberg's Far From the Madding Crowd, which rules. I love that movie.

[00:57:14] That's my insane double feature, where I saw that and Age of Ultron in the same day. Wow. I'm just gonna have a stroke. I love that movie. She died in 2016, but obviously as we said, right, she really did. Wow, I didn't realize that.

[00:57:25] Madding Crowd reminds me a lot of this movie. Yeah. Oh, it's okay. A little bit. Was that Good and Schonartz and Mulligan? Correct. Good? Matthew Good? No, it's Schonartz though, right? Michael Sheen, Schonartz, and then- Cary Mulligan. Cary Mulligan and then Tom- Oh, Tom Sturridge. Tom Sturridge.

[00:57:47] Is Matthew Good not in that? Am I wrong? No. Not even a supporting role? What am I confusing that with? Something else at that time. I don't know, whatever. Do you know Temple, though? Your favorite. Oh yeah, do you know? Oh, yeah, man, I love Temple.

[00:57:56] It's a movie about having three boyfriends. The young Victoria Sandy Powell beat it. Lame. Anyway- Weird. Two apparition costume nominations. As I was gonna say, this film- That's what crippled them, you know? They're out of business. Two costume campaigns they thought would translate to box office.

[00:58:12] Pathé and BBC funded it, Apparition released it for some reason. This film, okay, so- I was confusing it with Brideshead Revisited, anyway. That's the one that Good is in. Far From the Madding Crowd, one of the greatest scores, Craig Armstrong. Oh, so good. Incredible score. I gotta rewatch.

[00:58:27] Great, anyway, Tom Hardy just a bit more of a bummer. You know, he's- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No, sorry, Thomas Hardy. Not like me, Thomas Hardy. Tom Hardy's a great time. Yeah, he is a great time. He's a party dude. Let's do a Thomas Hardy adaptation, though.

[00:58:40] Hardy and Hardy. The Hardy boys. I wonder if he has. Because he used to do BBC stuff for a second. Oh yeah. Anyway, Bright Star. Oh, he'd be so good. So, I grew up in England. Beyond that- What? I grew up in North London.

[00:58:56] Beyond that, I actually grew up in Kentish Town, which hilariously in Bright Star is the sort of slum he moves to when he can't afford the old- Oh, where he goes to die of tuberculosis? Yeah, where he's like, Kentish Town is all I can afford.

[00:59:08] And I'm like, damn, Kentish Town cleaned up- Is there a good dying town around here? I mean, Kentish Town is a little more of a sort of like, I mean, these days I think it's pretty fancy, but when I lived there,

[00:59:17] it was a little more, you know, sort of fringy. But anyway, but Kentish Town, very near Hampstead Heath, where most of this movie takes place. And a classic walk that I did one billion times was you can go in the Heath

[00:59:30] and then it's like, where are we gonna go? You can go to Kenwood, which is like a big old house. You can go over there, South End Green, get a cookie, maybe. We do that a lot. Or you could go to Keats House.

[00:59:40] Get a cookie, or you're saying, you mean biscuit. You can go to Keats House. You can go to Keats House, which is where this movie takes place. Now, they did not shoot it there because it's too small, I think. Campion was like, this is like-

[00:59:52] So they shot it actually in this estate, sort of just outside of London. But you can go to Keats House, which is where this motherfucker lived and was flirting up a storm with Fanny. Serafinowicz and I once got lost in Hampstead Heath for like three hours.

[01:00:05] It's my favorite park. But the sun had set, and we really didn't know how to get out of there. Oh, it's a little nasty. You don't wanna be in there tonight. No, no, and we could not find our way out. We're both very easily confused men.

[01:00:17] Yeah, I can only imagine. It's not great when we're together without adult supervision. What were you gonna ask? So when they're in Hampstead Heath, and he's like, I have to go into London for this, how long is that taking them?

[01:00:27] I think, given that this film is set in what, 1818 or whatever, I think back then, you know, like, Hampstead, obviously Hampstead now is basically almost inner London, but at the time, it would have been like 20 minutes to half an hour in a fricking cart or whatever.

[01:00:42] Okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like Astoria. Sure. Hampstead obviously is a very, very fancy neighborhood now, but yeah, back then, you know, it was like, it's all over the countryside. Well, when they're just like, you know, he commuted back from London in the rain.

[01:00:54] It's like, okay, is this half a day he's spending in the rain, or it's 20 minutes? He's a big baby, okay. I don't know how long it takes in a goddamn horse is the problem. I don't have horse speed. I mean, you know.

[01:01:03] And was he not under the covered part? Was that the issue? I think he walked. He just walked. Oh, if he's walking, that's a pretty long walk. That's what I'm saying. Like, if he's walking that, how much time? To central London? Sure.

[01:01:14] That's a couple hours at least walking. Okay, I guess I'd get tuberculosis too. But even if he was under the- I'm John Keats, and this is getting severely cold. I'm cold as sick. This is getting way too cold. And also, they're wearing all this suede and velvet.

[01:01:28] It's just sucking the water in, you know? It's only just gonna mold you up, right? Like, Hampstead Heath. So you've been in Hampstead Heath. It's this gorgeous, gorgeous, untamed park in the middle of London. It's massive. Right, it's like a wild, kind of undeveloped central park.

[01:01:46] It's so good, yes. And it's my favorite spot. And it's so nice to see it. That's one reason I love this movie. But I also just, it's Keats House. It's worth visiting if no one's been. It's lovely to visit. And then of course, if you're in Rome,

[01:01:58] you can visit the Keats House there where he died. Have any of you ever done that? No. No. Because obviously, he went there to supposedly warmer weather, you'll convalesce, and that's where he dies, and it happens offscreen in this movie.

[01:02:11] Did that help in the past when they were like, you gotta go to Italy to cure your disease? I mean, Italy seems like a nice place to go. Maybe it'd cheer you up. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. This is, I've been rereading some like.

[01:02:20] I mean, it's very, you know, you needed to breathe, right? So maybe they were just, I don't know. You know, I've been reading some Ferrantes, and they love to be like, oh, you gotta go to the beach, and that'll fix all your issues.

[01:02:29] And I'm like, do we know that that works? Or is it just sort of like, yeah, go on vacation, you're sad? Look, I had a lot of, this movie triggered a lot of existential sort of jags of thought for me.

[01:02:40] And one of them, and this is not the first time I've had this observation, realization, I should say. But watching this movie, I was like, right. Before Modern Medicine, I would have been dead by 25. Oh sure, something would have knocked you off.

[01:02:53] Right, like John Keats, you're like, tragically dies at 25. What happened to him? Was there an accident? Did you see this guy? This guy was so fragile. There's like, right, right. He is not, like survival of the fittest.

[01:03:03] This guy is not built to be able to withstand the elements. We didn't know about hydration. You don't have fucking like, I don't know, North Face jackets and shit, you know? I just wanna reflect. I was just talking about this with my wife last night

[01:03:17] after watching Bright Star for the like 10th time. My point is just something like, go get some sunlight is like, I don't know, that's a fucking, it can't make it worse. Why not? Exactly, who's it hurt? Fucking, you know, breathe the ocean in.

[01:03:28] I just like get on his bones. I want that doctor now, who's like, I'm sorry, I have to prescribe you going to Italy to fix what's wrong with you. You hand it to like Delta and they're like, okay, all in order, you're in first class.

[01:03:40] Like, what can I tell you? My mom, I would walk with my mom in Hampstead Heath a ton. Hump price. Because she, whoa! You know, when I'm a teenager or younger, but we'd be like, let's fucking take a walk. You know, kind of her thing,

[01:03:54] just like, come on, like you're not sitting around the house all day. And I just think now, and I remember she'd be like, where do you want to go? And I would be like, I want to go to HMV. Because you could exit Hampstead Heath,

[01:04:06] you could walk up the hill to Hampstead and I could go to a record store. And she'd be like, so sometimes maybe I get to do that. But often we'd fucking go to Keats House or something. And I just remember when I was a teenager,

[01:04:16] I was like, I don't want to go to Keats stupid poetry house for like the 100th time. It's like a four room museum. They're like, John Keats still lived here. No news. Like, but it's a lovely little spot. Now I'm like, it's so enriching that I did.

[01:04:33] You know, what a good thing for me to have done. You know, to fucking. Look, did you proclaim when you were there ever? Did you go, oh, it's this branch, so beautiful. You know, like, did you? I should've done more of that probably

[01:04:47] instead of thinking about video games I wanted to buy or whatever. You and I both grew up with very cultural parents, right? Who I imagine you similarly had a childhood of them constantly trying to like expose you to things. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And I just much like you,

[01:05:04] like it's an absurdly privileged position, right? To live in a place where you have access to this and parents who like try to expose you to these things. And I also just had such fucking frustration with like, you're making me look

[01:05:16] at some other fucking old dude's house again. I don't care about that. I mean, to be clear. Do I get to go to the toy store afterwards? Am I gonna get to see Charlie's Angels afterwards? I also wanted to see Charlie's Angels.

[01:05:27] To be clear, I was a good boy and I would, you know. But I remember that I would be a little stick in the mud about it. But I will say, and I love Keats House in London and anyone who's in London should check it out.

[01:05:37] It's a lovely spot. But I just wanna say, Keats House in Rome where he died is like maybe my like favorite or like one of those places that has had the biggest emotional impact. It is crazy. Because it's so small.

[01:05:50] It's in this gorgeous, it's right on the Spanish Steps. Like it's in a gorgeous part of the city. And you just go in there and it's so quiet and there's this little bed where he died. I'm like, I'm feeling it just thinking about it.

[01:06:01] And you're just like, he thought he was a failure and he just died. It's so crazy. Like he just was just like, nobody gives a shit about me, you know? It's so sad. And he was like the greatest. And you're just, when you're in there

[01:06:15] and it's all contained, you're just like, this is insane that this happened this way. And it's perfectly maintained and shit. And then they're like, and when the Nazis fucking invaded we had to hide all his shit so they wouldn't burn it. It's such a good museum.

[01:06:29] And you just think about John Keats. It's crazy. I mean look, I'm such a fucking sap. And it's some of the corniest content in the world. He was 25 years old, I'm 35. I got 10 years on John Keats. What do I got a show for? A podcast with Griffin Newman?

[01:06:43] You think he'd like that? Unbelievable. But no, I would say. He might like it. He might, maybe he would. Jolly good, that's what he'd say. Someone to listen to when he's walking back in the rain. You know, suffering, laughing. Who is Qui-Gon Jinn?

[01:06:56] I mean, he probably loves kissing. I mean, he definitely does. Oh, the kissing. The guys pro-kissing. If nothing else we could talk about that. No, I was just gonna say they're the two, I think they're the only two. And I think he wrote both of them.

[01:07:08] Richard Curtis, Doctor Who episodes. The Van Gogh one. And Trost Dickens. Yeah, sure, right. Where both of them, he does the beat both times. And both times it's effective. Where the guy's like, nothing I do fucking matters. And Doctor Who tells them, you don't understand.

[01:07:24] Like the Van Gogh thing where the whole episode's him and the final episode is a mad mess. But they take him to the museum and it's like. Bill Nye's the curator and he's giving the thing. And he shows him the appreciation for his work.

[01:07:33] And Van Gogh realizes his life is not meaningless. And with the Dickens one, he tells him, he's like, just tell me one thing. Like, does my work last? And Doctor Who gives him the fucking romantic Curtis monologue about how much his work matters forever.

[01:07:48] And in both cases, it's like beautiful. And this is a movie that is like full of profound tragedy of the guy just never getting to know, obviously. He doesn't know. Like, fucking Curtis wants to give you the corny Doctor Who thing where the guy gets to find out

[01:08:00] and doesn't die suffering, you know? I hope the Richard Curtis Dickens doesn't find out about the people in my MFA program who were pitched reading Dickens who said, who gives a shit? He's gotta not find out about that. He doesn't find that out.

[01:08:14] Do you think Dickens would be into cancel culture? They came for him. You can't cancel me! I'm just trying to think. It was one of the big fights. Him being on Joe Rogan. These motherfuckers are trying to cancel me! I wrote all of her tweets!

[01:08:26] It was one of our big MFA fights with the poets and the fiction people is what is the point of still reading Dickens? Yeah. Because it fucking rocks the house. It was an MFA fight that almost turned to an MMA fight, right? That's right. That's right.

[01:08:39] I mean, I love Bleak House. I'm a big Bleak House stan. Bleak House rules the first detective story ever written. Inspector Bucket. Yeah. Anyway, we're not here to talk Dickens. No, no. I was just saying. As much as you want me to. This is a movie. Dickens miniseries?

[01:08:53] This is a movie that has the cloud of the franchise. This is a movie that has the cloud of the sort of like, he's never gonna get to now, right? Right, absolutely, of course. And this relationship is gonna remain unfulfilled and his life is all about promise.

[01:09:07] I think for most people watching the movie, you know that he died at 25. So the whole movie has this kind of like, ticking time bomb. So much of his legacy. Yeah, and he's a sweet guy who's doing a silly dance for his pals for Sankster. Yeah. For Sankster.

[01:09:22] Giving Sankster some fun. Have you guys talked about him on the show? I don't know if we've had a Sankster swerve. I wrote that in my notes. He was supposed to play Tintin, which I feel is the only time we would have invoked him. Sankster section.

[01:09:32] We certainly invoked him briefly at least. Right. I love that guy. Well, we have not yet been welcomed to the Scorch, but. No. Maybe we do that on Patreon. He brings up the Maze Runner so often. I've only seen the third one. Secretly kind of wins.

[01:09:45] Third one is the worst one. I know, you say that every time we talk about this. One, two, three. Right, Scorch trials is where it's at. That's how I should rank more. It's not that you rank them in order, you just do a noise. Pyramid, yeah.

[01:09:57] Where you're like, my Jackass ratings are like, one, two, three, four, you know, or whatever. Yeah, but four is still great. No, no, I think I'm actually two, four, three, one. I think I might give three the slight edge, but I do think one's the worst now,

[01:10:10] but I don't know, whatever. In retrospect, did you watch three in 3D? Yes. Cool. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. That's fine. Yeah, it was great to see it in 3D. It is still, for my money, maybe the best. Top use of 3D post-Avatar, basically. It's that and Coraline.

[01:10:23] Anyway, the other thing this movie is fundamentally about for me, right? There's the sort of like unfulfilled promise, the tragic doomed romance, all these things that are like cornerstones of period romance and these kinds of like, unrecognized in their time artists, biopics and whatever.

[01:10:42] But the other thing I think this movie is very, very keenly tied into and it's much more like textually grounded in than most other films of this kind. And I say this as someone who has benefited from countless forms of privilege, of various ilts

[01:11:01] and has been given so many career advantages because of that. This is a movie about how fucking difficult, if not impossible it is to be an artist if you're born poor and without social status. Which is a thing that still is fucking discussed today

[01:11:15] in our culture, where it's just like, how do you have the room to struggle and find your own voice if you do not have the means to survive? And it's like, there are exceptions and then they become like sort of heroic stories

[01:11:30] of like, look, you can do it. You can come from dirt and build yourself and become a canonical artist. But those people always do just have good luck on their side. Like they get the fucking lottery ticket at some point.

[01:11:41] And here's a guy who had like a roommate who's essentially like a trust fund kid who's like, I'm executive producer. I'm like making shit happen. I'm like working stuff. And then his like heartbreaking scene at the end of the movie is like, say it, I failed Keats.

[01:11:54] Well, that's- I didn't fucking figure out how to make him into a thing. He wound himself around my heart. I'm sorry, I'm fucking sorry. I have failed him. And even his romance is fucking ruined by the fact that everyone's like,

[01:12:05] there's no money here between the two of you. You can't fucking do this. Yeah. You can't fucking do this. He can't waste his time in a romance that he can't support. It takes away from his writing and he can't support you.

[01:12:16] So it's a waste of your time to be with him. And it's just like the whole movie is so wrapped up in the class struggle of just like, everyone just being like, look, this is like nice. It's a nice idea you have,

[01:12:27] but like, you're not gonna be able to pull this off. It's such an anvil drop once they're like, you can marry our Fanny. Because it's like, they all know where this is going. You might as well let him have this sort of belief.

[01:12:39] I guess just fucking go with it together. Like you can struggle together. Yeah. And then even more so at a time where a guy like this just like genuinely just cannot survive against the elements against nature, you're just like, this guy's gonna fucking catch something at some point.

[01:12:58] He's gonna go out for milk and like fucking get gangrene. Whatever. Poor guy. He, yeah, this movie is, I would say fairly plot light. It's kind of a hangout movie. It's mostly like, what if you lived in the same house

[01:13:16] as John Keats kind of, and wouldn't you fall in love with him or live near him at least? Yeah, their romance doesn't have like rom-com structure to it. It's really just a series of conversations where they seem genuinely curious and interested in each other.

[01:13:30] There's the one moment early on where Charles Brown, who's Scottish by the way, I had to triple check. Oh, okay, sorry. It's a Scottish accent, I didn't know. Sorry. But Brown is always Scottish. Sure. But he does a feather light brogue. Yeah, no, for sure.

[01:13:42] But where Brown gives her the fake love letter. Yes. And he's like, well, do you love him? Like, you know, that's the only rom-com moment, I suppose, right? Sure. Is this sort of where Brown's like, it was in jest! You know, like I was just fucking with you.

[01:13:57] Do you read that as a joke in the movie? I think that he is being who he is, which is sort of a sort of like, I'll just start some shit. Maybe she has a crush on me or maybe- I always read that as earnest to him.

[01:14:11] If he's like, maybe I'll shoot my shot. But it's like earnest with the caveat of like, I can just say I was joking because that's my vibe. Yeah, totally, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I can just be myself,

[01:14:25] like can be the excuse if it doesn't go over. I don't know. It's also like, they have their like, awkward meet cute, right? She's like fucking spilling tea in there. He opens the door too fast. You wear that, you know, like all this sort of like,

[01:14:40] but then the scene where he finally sort of takes a liking to her is when he notices the depth of her empathy and the grieving of his brother. Like the actual sort of romantic connection moment is like, oh, you feel as much as I do

[01:14:56] to a degree that is almost a hindrance? I mean, the John Keats story. Yeah. A man would see a fucking flower and lose it. John Keats is the best, Fran. What do you think of Johnny Keats? He's great. He's amazing.

[01:15:10] He is the poet I responded to the most of the romantics when I was studying him. And I love his sonnets, which I think are incredible. And I think sonnets are the coolest form of poetry. They are pretty good. I love, I was reading-

[01:15:20] They got that little rhyme at the end. You never see it coming. Oh, and they got it throughout. But it's the couplet. The little couplet. The couplet, what's better? I mean, I like when poetry, I had to read a lot of poetry in school

[01:15:30] and I try to keep up with poetry. But I love when poetry has rules. Because I love rules. You prefer that than just like, all right, baby, it's gonna be all over the place. I mean- That's me, baby. That's me, baby.

[01:15:43] I like a ton of stuff that's all over the place. But I even love an invented form of just like, here's my own thing. But I think I always work best with some kind of constraint. I mean, you're David Baiting right now. Yeah.

[01:15:57] I'm not saying I love rules on this podcast without knowing what you're getting at. This is probably why we're friends. Yeah, probably. The rules. Ben and I are loosey goosey, boy. We like fucking kicking down doors. We love chaos. You know, I'm married to a poetry major.

[01:16:09] But my wife is a poet. You're married to a poet, beat, beat, beat, tree major. My wife is a high school English teacher. But she was a poetry major and she writes poetry to this day and she loves poetry. Is that her favorite form to write in? Absolutely.

[01:16:24] It's the only form she writes in. I mean, you of course know that your wife and I went to high school together. I know her better than you do. I've known her for longer. We're much closer than you and her are. But in terms of- That's cool.

[01:16:34] Right? Is that cool? Sort of modern, yeah. Yeah, it's very modern that I sort of said like, you know what, I think you two would be cute together. I didn't introduce them. They met organically, but I was like, no, I approve of this.

[01:16:46] But yes, we were in playwriting class together. Your wife is an excellent writer, but I didn't know poetry was sort of her favorite. That's her thing. Okay. So anyway, but yeah. But Keats, she's pro Keats. She's pro this movie, but I'm a real Keats hoe. I love Keats.

[01:17:01] I fucking love him. You're a slut for Keats? I am. I haven't read that much, but what I've read I like. The one I feel like I read a lot of in college was Byron. Yeah, you see him, I'm not well-versed. He's kind of a dang ass freak,

[01:17:14] but not in a good way. He's a freak, but he's like a downer freak. Yeah, I don't know. There's stuff that's been more recently exposed like about him being kind of a creeper. Oh, he's canceled. Yes, he is. Byron? Yeah, he got a distinction.

[01:17:28] Was he a member of that Thomas Middleditch club? What was it called, the Thomas Middleditch? The dumbest name. What is it? It's not like the skull and bones, but it's got like a name that's like performatively kind of like dark. Cloak and dagger. Oh, no.

[01:17:43] Obviously some of Keats' poetry is about Fanny Braun, such as Bright Star and several others. He also wrote many hundreds of notes and letters to her that you can read that are super romantic. A lot of like, I cannot exist without you. My love is making me selfish.

[01:18:06] All this kind of very beautiful overflowing stuff. You know what's a thing I really like about this film? The muse narrative is overdone and often reductive to the women who are then pegged as the muse, right? Where it's like your existence was solely to inspire great art.

[01:18:28] From a boy. Right. I feel like this movie gets across a clear distinction that it's like the muse was their relationship. Yeah, I wrote this note down. It's like the verb of their relationship versus her as just an object.

[01:18:44] Right, it was the love between the two of them, which was a two-way thing, rather than exactly her as an object, which I think so often these narratives reduce these things. And it was like the process and the craft of their relationship informed the process

[01:18:58] and craft of his work. Right, it unlocked different areas of his understanding to be able to love someone that fully for a man who clearly had that depth and sensitivity of feeling, but had largely been told or told himself, I can't have a relationship

[01:19:17] because I gotta hustle 24-7 to make these poems work because I don't have a safety net to fall back on. Yeah, Sonic grinds that, yeah. Right, it's hustle grind culture because you're just like, look, I didn't come for money. I don't have any connections.

[01:19:31] I gotta figure out my way in here. I don't have time for a relationship. I'll do that when I'm successful. Yes. That's the tragedy of this movie. The guy died barely getting to enjoy himself because he- Right, or you wouldn't have any affirmation.

[01:19:44] Or do as much work as he should have or affirmation or any of these things because it was a time that was even more defined by class. I also love, it would be easy to make a movie about a romantic poet and have it just be them,

[01:19:59] I don't know, running in fields and commuting with nature in ways that- This movie could've gone full Malick. Exactly, it might feel a little overwrought because people think of romantic poets as overwrought, I think, right? Where they're just like, ah, God's beauty surrounds me or whatever, right?

[01:20:18] And I think this movie shoots nature so beautifully but mundanely and- It's not indulgent. Yeah, it makes those environments feel regular but also obviously inspiring. It also weirdly makes its poeticism conversational. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, man. Guy's mostly just hanging out.

[01:20:40] A lot of writing is hanging out. That's what I'm saying. He's not like, you know, which another one of my favorite movies, Patterson is also very good about- You love your fucking poet movies. Incredible movie. It's also about the mundanity of life and how he's translating it.

[01:20:54] You're making a little face. Not crazy about that movie. There's nothing I dislike about it but I went into it wanting to have the fucking transcendent experience that Ben and David did and I was just like, yeah, it's good. I don't know if we're-

[01:21:08] You don't like the wife. I like the wife. I don't know if the movie wants us to be laughing at his wife or with his wife and her quirky little thing. I think that's a fair question. I don't know if she's a punchline or not.

[01:21:17] But I love her. She's not a punchline at all. I think that movie is very tender about their relationship. Okay. And I remember- She's cute and their dog is cute too. Great dog. And he knocks over the mailbox, great moment. But I remember seeing that movie

[01:21:30] with Jordan Hoffman, friend of the show. Humblebird. Who has a sort of similar relationship with his wife that those two have except that Hoffman's a little more- Avuncular? Yeah, then battered that Adam Driver's character. Yeah, and I dig this. But he was like, you know,

[01:21:46] he was saying like, hey, she's like, you know, and I was like, yeah, I get it. Anyway. Hey, fun fact. My uncle Ken drove the- Your famed uncle from Midnight Cowboy DVD fame? Correct, correct, correct. He drove that bus route, that same bus route that's in the movie.

[01:22:02] Oh shit! Wow. Because he's a bus driver in Patterson. No one's seen Patterson. Patterson spoilers. He had been a bus driver in Patterson. Did he like the movie Patterson? He did. Yeah, I was gonna say. He likes this show by the way. Shout out Ben's uncle.

[01:22:16] He started listening recently because I told him how to download podcasts. Yeah, and so- That's so nice. We made his fucking DVD collection famous. Yeah. Yeah. Ben McGriffin threw Midnight Cowboy at me when I invoked it on the walks episode. I literally chopped a Midnight Cowboy.

[01:22:31] A one disker at your head. Yeah. Anyway. Oh wait, so you're talking about nature. Can we talk about the exterior, the interior design? Did you guys not- Ben is like looking at us right now like he's about to tell us a secret.

[01:22:46] I've been watching a lot of HGTV, okay? Really deep into just interior design culture. This movie is so beautifully shot, but the rooms man, because the romantic time in my mind you can make it all like gaudy and cantalabras, but you can kind of tell they have money

[01:23:09] but it's not extravagant. They don't have servants. Sure. So it's just like you get this kind of mundane kind of portrayal of that time. Oh, I get what you're saying, that most period films like this, there's such a kinetic energy to the home because there's a staff

[01:23:26] and there's the structure of the functions and the routines and all that. And this is, right, it's got more of a casual vibe. But her bedroom, to me, I'm like that is a beautiful design. I want that for my own home.

[01:23:40] My girlfriend and I, the whole time watching, we're just like, this is so gorgeous. This is shit you would see as far as interior design porn on Instagram now. But they're supposed to, the Bronze are what? Middle class? They're not upper class, are they? No.

[01:23:57] So this is like that sort of pastoral middle class where I think even like Pride and Prejudice, the Bennets are sort of like, they're middle class. We're like, that looks amazing, but it's like, they're not the wealthiest. So this is sort of simple, but it's like.

[01:24:09] Well, it's like you watch The Simpsons and you go, so you're telling me this guy's 34, he has a three bedroom home and we're saying he's middle class? I mean, but. It's exactly like that. I'm not even joking, actually. It is one of those things where you're like.

[01:24:21] I feel like Homer being 34 has been talked about the whole last year. I think he's 36. I always get. Or one of those two. I think he's 37. But it's one of those things where you're like, you're living in your thing. That's fine, I'm still younger than him.

[01:24:31] Right, I feel like. And you're like, they're supposed to be. I feel like Homer's age. You're supposed to be lower middle class and he owns the house outright. They have two cars, all that shit. That just now is no longer. Like you're like, that's impossible.

[01:24:42] He was 34 in early seasons, 36 in season four, 39 in season eight, and 40 in the 18th season. He has sort of a comic book floating timeline. Anyway, yes, exactly. It was obviously, you could get yourself a little pile of bricks when you were just sort of middle class back then.

[01:25:02] There's a lot less people. So they're not gaudy, I think is what Ben is saying. Even that simplicity, sort of simple country life is really enviable at this point. But still nonetheless, Fanny is too fancy for John because he makes no money, obviously.

[01:25:21] Even though Fanny is also, Brown is mean about her because she's kind of like declassé to him. Right, and he's like, you don't need to be. She just likes ribbons. You don't need to be hanging out with her. But that's one reason their romance is so genuine,

[01:25:37] I think, is that they really loved each other. This was not some, she was not angling for this guy's fame or money. He was not angling for the security she could give him. There was nothing in their union that would have produced stability for them.

[01:25:52] Yeah, money means nothing to them in this relationship. And it's like, a pastoral is like a type of poem. And I think this movie functions in that way also, where it just makes their country life look like the most enviable, perfect, natural place to ever be.

[01:26:06] Fairly fringy, the life he was living. Right, you know? Yeah. But also, no sorry, go on. The thing that he's fucking up by being in love with her is that she could be getting married to someone who could give her a nice future.

[01:26:19] And that's what he keeps saying. He's like, someone should fall in love with you who can like fucking set you up, because I can't. You know, and I feel bad being in love with you for this reason. Like, it's a bummer. Those dances though, man.

[01:26:32] That shit is like corny. Oh, you think it's corny? I gotta say. Oh, I like it. And plus rules too, you learn the steps. You learn the rules. Rules, rules, get out of here. At those dances- Anyone can dance. When someone touches your waist,

[01:26:46] that's like the most intimacy you've ever had in your life at that point. And I'm like, that's cool. I love those movies where they have the big dance. Oh, and the dance card. Oh, when the dance card is full. Gotta fill up your card. Oh no.

[01:26:58] Gotta fill up a card. I have to dance with Ba. And then some like Danny DeVito guy comes over, he's like, my turn. And you're like, ah shit, he's on my card. What do I do? I do wish like my middle school dances had operated with those.

[01:27:11] Like I would have had a lot less anxiety if there was a clear structure. Oh, I think parties now, you just fill up your card and then you don't have to talk to the people you don't wanna talk to. You're like, nah, my card's full, I gotta go.

[01:27:20] Party, right. The thing I was gonna say is that unlike, you know, watching all these camp in movies, is such a through line, this sort of constant battle in all of her characters or at least often her primary characters between their sexual impulses and their intellect, right?

[01:27:38] And how often those two things are at odds with each other. And when that drive overrides it and works against their better judgment for better or worse. And this is a movie where like they're attracting to each other is not really

[01:27:54] given that sort of force of animal sexuality to it. Like there isn't that sort of like primal impulse. It is just this emotional connection that is so pure and outside of all of these structures and it's not them fucking wanting to like rip bodices or whatever, you know?

[01:28:09] They just wanna be close to each other. They just wanna be close. Yeah, which I think is sexy in its own way. It's super sexy. Absolutely. But there's just not a lot of movies like this. Yes. And usually if I'm coming to some fucking Eurofinancer

[01:28:19] with a hoop skirt drama, I might be promising like some bodice ripping. Rip a bodice, yeah. And you know, instead she's like, no man, this movie's gonna be gentle AF. Like a touch hands. Like, and he's like, all right, I'll write the check.

[01:28:29] There's gonna be like very effective kissing and that's the extreme, the most extreme end of it, yeah. Yes, but you know, apparently one shot, Greg Fraser set up what Campion described as a sea of daffodils. And Campion was like, too corny, too Disney, she said.

[01:28:48] And so she was like, get these fucking daffodils out and they had to like stop filming and get all the daffodils, pull them all out. That's funny, because there's the scene with either, you know, the lilacs or the violets where it's Fanny and the two siblings

[01:28:59] just sort of laying in those. I like that that's not too corny a flower. Yeah. Daffodils I agree are corny. I mean, speaking about the class and their relationship just for two more seconds, I think the Keats estate sort of grew to kind of resent her

[01:29:13] and like the position that she had in his life and did a lot to try to discredit her. And one of those things that I think was referring to her is that she was sort of like a little bit immature all the time,

[01:29:21] because they had a sort of like little age gap with them. And I think one of the things Brightstar does effectively is like her immaturity is reflected in her optimism that they can pull this off. It's not that she's like not worthy of him.

[01:29:33] It's that she sort of believes up until basically the end that like, we're gonna be fine. But don't you think that's also a reflection of the obsessive, the obsession, the cultural obsession with like great artists just being like pure geniuses who spit gold. Like they were just perfect

[01:29:52] and everything they did was excellent. Like not to fucking wade into this thing, I swear to God, I'm not gonna fucking go down this rabbit hole. But there was the recent fucking wave of Star Wars discourse where people were arguing over whether shit and Boba Fett

[01:30:06] resembled George Lucas's vision or not. This is all I wanna say. This is all I wanna say about it. And there was this argument now where it's like this constant fucking back and forth of like, was George Lucas your Messiah or was he an idiot savant

[01:30:19] who fell into Star Wars backwards, right? And this idea of like, well, but George Lucas fucked things up. Like he had all these weaknesses and these other people save Star Wars and all this shit. And it's like the thing that weirdly feels removed

[01:30:33] from the conversation of how we understand artists at a time where I think more people want to talk about the process of how things are made and who the people are behind them and all that sort of shit is like good collaboration

[01:30:44] is a sign of a great artist. It's not like you're a better artist if you know how to do everything perfectly and no one ever gives you any notes. Knowing the people surround yourself with, knowing when to take their advice and when not to, which influences to take,

[01:30:59] which happy accidents to observe, like which things you pull from in your life or influences another art, like that's part of the soup. And I think people are obsessed with this idea of just like they're touched with brilliance and they sit down and they're fucking,

[01:31:12] they do a perfect work and look at them, it all came out of their head perfectly realized. And it's like, no, part of being an artist is being a fucking person in the world and meeting other people and pulling from them

[01:31:23] and experiences and all this sort of shit. So it's like this weird contradictory thing of like the obsession with telling stories about muses that romanticize that but turn them into objects. And then also like the scholars who uphold these artists being like,

[01:31:36] but let's not give too much credit to this fucking person. He was just the best. He just was a fucking great poet. He just sat down, he wrote great poems and he died. I don't know. You know what a great movie about this is? What? The Wife. What?

[01:31:51] David just made such a thing. There was a too messy. The Wife, the book is actually very much about this and unpacks it a little bit more. Because that's the whole idea. What if there was a wife?

[01:32:01] He did have a wife and she actually wrote the books, right? Like in the movie, he's just copying, she types a document and then he puts his name on it. Whereas the Wife, the book is sort of about a writer who goes home every night

[01:32:12] and has a conversation with his wife. They have a shared process. And she's like, why don't I have a stake in this? Which is a valid question. Drive my car? Sure, drive my car. The movie kind of turns him into Milli Vanilli.

[01:32:26] The movie turns Jonathan Pryce into Milli Vanilli. Oh, I was like Bright Star. Yeah, no, not Bright Star. Bright Star turns Ben Whishaw into Milli Vanilli. I wanna tell you some more trivia facts that JJ dug up. Please. As part of the casting process, Campion required every actor,

[01:32:42] every actor to recite a Keats poem from memory. And she was worried it would be repetitive and was like, it was so cool. Everyone did things differently. Their personalities completely disappeared. The poem, so that's one thing. Once she cast Whishaw in Cornish, she would every day require them

[01:32:59] to perform small unfilmed tasks together, like exchanging gifts, flowers, anything like that. She wanted them to just have a little unspoken bond on set. Sense memory too, yeah. Sure. Her great quote about Whishaw, I don't know why, but I love cats. And when I first saw Ben Whishaw,

[01:33:21] I thought, oh my God, he's a cat. He's like the most beautiful black cat you've ever seen. He's got this mysterious quality. He's a bit of a cat, isn't he? He's a great cat in this movie too. Oh yeah, love the cat. And obviously, the first kiss,

[01:33:37] Whishaw talking about it, we thought a lot about how that should happen, how they touch each other, how they're very sensitive to every physical interaction. They don't jump all over each other. Small gestures speak volumes, which is very much the vibe of the romance in this movie, right?

[01:33:54] Little moments. Selene Sciamma has talked extensively about what an influence Campion was for her. But especially, obviously, Portrait of a Lady on Fire escalates to being more overtly sexual. But the same sort of studied of the micro gestures and movements and the sort of space between them

[01:34:12] or lack thereof and all that sort of stuff, this movie feels so attuned to. Campion's take on Schneider, he's like Jack Nicholson. So original his instincts, what comes to him comes from outer space. That's so nice. He's completely different energy on this set of like Ben Whishaw giving

[01:34:35] Abbie Cornish some flowers. You know what? I think that's why I'm so surprised he nails the accent so much because he is much like Nicholson, one of those guys who I just think is so behaviorally fascinating and having not come from an acting background,

[01:34:53] talks about being pretty instinctual where something like getting a fucking lilting Scottish brogue down feels like the kind of thing that like a drama school person knows how to like study and break down. And he just feels like a guy who just has

[01:35:06] like a good psychology for being in a scene and behaving and reacting and all that sort of shit. Yeah, he's fascinating and I fucking miss him being in a movie. This is the great Schneider quote. What a funny guy this guy clearly is.

[01:35:19] He should write more for crying out loud. You have this beautiful feline guy, Keats, who drags a chair under a flowering tree and farts out the greatest poetry of the 19th century. The process through which Brown eked out any poetry was like passing a kidney stone.

[01:35:33] So he's saying like, I'm kind of playing Brown with a tinge of like sort of Salieri too where it's kind of like, this guy is just, I'll never be like this guy creatively. Like I cannot believe how naturally it comes to him versus me.

[01:35:46] I think that's why that character is so protective of him too with this relationship is like, I know I'm living with a brilliant person and he shouldn't be distracted. Right, right, because he thinks it's sort of his responsibility to help this guy become a great artist

[01:35:59] because what he lacks and sort of the natural instinct he maybe can make up for in like connections and stability and all that sort of stuff. Schneider said this thing to me, I remember when we took this fucking subway ride home. What train was it?

[01:36:12] It would have been the one my friend. We're gonna go get him. The one train. It would have been the one train. We saw it at Lincoln Center. It would have been the one train downtown. Wow, that sounds very. Yep, but I was, you know. The IRT?

[01:36:26] At a relative career, Nadir at that point, but Common had introduced me as an actor and he was like talking to me as if I was like the fucking contemporary of like experiences with acting and shit. And because we'd just seen Holy Motors,

[01:36:40] you get like very existential about like, oh, this weird thing we do for a living pretending to be these people. And I just remember him having this comment where he's like, you know what's a weird thing I think about all the time?

[01:36:49] That I'm like not like very famous and I'm not a movie star, but I've like done enough things that at any moment in time, there might be like two guys sitting on a couch in a foreign country watching me holding a gun on TV.

[01:37:06] That it's weird that these things I do are just sort of like, that that's an image where it's like I would never hold a gun in my real life. You know? It's bizarre that I did that for a job and it's not like I'm fucking Clint Eastwood

[01:37:19] that has some mythic power, but yet that image sort of still ripples. I think he's a very existential guy in that kind of way. Come on, blank check Paul. I have failed him. That line just murdered me. I remember I was just sobbing in the theater

[01:37:32] the first time I saw it. He remains so fucking gentle in that scene. I was so unsettled by this the first time I saw it. Well, it's very unsettling the way he dies off screen, which is like absolutely how of course that would have felt emotionally to her,

[01:37:43] that he just vanished. The last 25 minutes of this movie are so brutal. When I first saw this, I was like, I'm not rewatching this again. I don't, yes, this movie is emotional in a way for me that I can't throw it on.

[01:37:55] Remind me, can we talk about the scene when he's saying goodbye to her essentially? And they both are sort of aware of like, he's gonna fucking die before he comes back here. He says as much. He's like, I don't think we're gonna see each other again.

[01:38:08] It's a statement. It's not even like a probably, it's like, look, come on. And then they have their imaginary conversation of let's say what we'll do when I come back and their way of coping with this being their goodbye is like play acting the life

[01:38:25] they're not gonna get to live together. It's tough. It's amazing. I rewatched this a couple weeks ago and then I started it again last night just to have it fresh in my head and then I stopped it right after that conversation.

[01:38:38] I was like, you know what, I got it. Oh, and I watched, I Have Failed John Keats just because I love when he says that. The way he says it where he's at first trying to be bravado dude, right? He's like, you want me to say it?

[01:38:50] I'll say it. You know, I'm not afraid of saying it. And then once he says he can't stop saying it because he knows how much he failed him. It's so incredible. Not to besmirch them, but I feel like most actors in this role

[01:39:03] would have turned that into a spotlight they all knew scene. Like they would have totally gone for emotional devastation, total breakdown. Yes, it would make him a little more Oscar clippy in some way. Yeah, sure. The stomp is so good. Yes.

[01:39:19] It's so like human and real life tantrum-y. Yeah. I guess what you're talking about Griffin is also the Oscar clippiness of like, there's catharsis, he admits it. And instead it's like, he says this and you're like, okay, I can tell obviously how brutal this is for him.

[01:39:37] But also it's like, what am I supposed to do with this? That's the thing. It's not the catharsis. He's not playing it as catharsis breakthrough in this moment, I'm self-destructing and admitting the thing that's been eating away at me. He's playing it as like, yeah, I fucking know.

[01:39:50] Right. You want me to say it, I failed John Keats. I think about this every fucking minute of my life. You fucking failed him. You fucking blew it Charles. He blew it. I mean, like you think of I've abandoned my boy, I guess.

[01:40:02] It's a similar thing where it's like, he's saying it because he knows he's supposed to say it at first. Right. And then the more he keeps saying it, the more you can tell, oh, the dam is breaking inside him. And Schneider somehow makes this scene

[01:40:13] emotionally devastating despite only playing the scene in the key of the first I abandoned my boy. Right. And that character is not, you know, redeemed which a lesser movie would work to find some big understanding between these two. But he's also not like some villain.

[01:40:27] He's also not a villain. But he's not punished either. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. This film premiered at the Cannes Film Festival in 2009. Lost to the White Ribbon, which I think is a good movie. Oh, yeah, I think it's a very good film.

[01:40:39] But I prefer this film personally. But obviously she had won the Palme d'Or before. And then who won the acting awards that year? That's a good question. Let's find out. Did you like the way I said that? Yeah, because these are two performances that feel very Kahn.

[01:40:52] I mean, I totally agree. Let's see. So the jury president back that year was Isabelle Huppert ruling, I'm sure, with an iron fist and a velvet glove. I can only imagine. Was Haynes, some director had like a falling out with her during a Cannes jury. James Gray.

[01:41:11] Oh, James Gray. He says that in a way, James Gray is funny in a way that I think sometimes doesn't read in interviews. But whenever you see videos of him, you're like, oh, this guy's joking. He says that in a way that feels more jokey

[01:41:25] than maybe it comes out. Like did they disagree about whether or not to put mustard on corned beef? I don't know. Obviously, I'm gonna say this is a wild jury because you got James Gray, you got Lee Chang-dong, you got Robin Wright, you got Asia Argento,

[01:41:42] I forget how you say her name. Yeah, a lot of Hanif Kureishi, you know, a lot of interesting cats. Best, the Palme d'Or goes to the White Ribbon, which was a mild surprise, I guess. Because maybe Hanif hadn't won before. No, he wins again for Amour.

[01:42:01] Am I wrong in thinking he's won three times? Has he won three times? He win for Piano Teacher? No, Piano Teacher won Actress or something. I thought that she would go for her guy, though. Doesn't it? I don't know. Yes, I just remember when he won for Amour.

[01:42:18] He won the Grand Prix for Piano Teacher. Okay. So no, he had never won the prize. Okay, because Amour is one of those things where it's like, we just gave it to him, but this is kind of undeniable.

[01:42:26] Like it was one of those things where they were like, fuck. Yeah. The Grand Prix went to a prophet. Okay. Good movie, in my opinion. Best, Actress went to Charlotte Gainsbourg for Antichrist, Isabelle. What are you up to? And Best Actor went to Christoph Waltz for Inglourious Bastards,

[01:42:47] which was the first sign of like, who is this? He's in the Tarantino movie and he won Camden's Actor? Cool for her to do. Right, definitely. Well, but then also obviously, then he just becomes the story of that movie. But good segue into me saying that Quentin Tarantino,

[01:43:03] who was in competition against Jane Campion, wrote her a letter saying, dear Jane, bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo! Four exclamation points. Sorry, three exclamation points. I wanted to correct myself. My favorite film of yours. I don't like period pieces like that. I loved this.

[01:43:19] Never has heartache been so realistically and movingly portrayed. Heartbreak feels good in a place like this. So heartbreak. Tarantino adores Bright Star. Yeah, it's the best film I've seen since Three Musketeers 3D. It's always funny seeing his year end list

[01:43:36] where it's just like, oh, it's clear that Tarantino weirdly only sees six new films a year. Right, he sees like, you know. Did he do a 2021 one? I don't think he did. Come on, Tarantino. I know, get with it. I want it. Let's see.

[01:43:48] I feel like he didn't though. Well, what's this? This film, no, no, this is somewhere I shouldn't go. Yeah, no, he should do one anyway. And the movie got good reviews, right? I mean, like it went well received. I think it was like a critical darling

[01:44:07] that was hamstruck with a distributor that did not know how to properly release this. And there was more vitality in the distribution world at this point. Like this could have become a minor crossover hit. And I think it just felt like

[01:44:22] Apparition doesn't know how to make these things work. You know, it's that funny Oscar year where it becomes Avatar versus- Hurt Locker. Hurt Locker. Which are these sort of, right, both- David and Goliath exes. But like both obviously. And like obviously In Glorious Bastards

[01:44:37] is a big movie that year. An Education. An Education, right. Precious District 9. Precious is a really big deal that year, right. Up in the Air is a big deal. It's kind of a loaded Oscar year, but obviously- And that's the first expanded field year.

[01:44:52] That's the year where they make it 10. Yes, because the year before had been The Dark Knight. But obviously it's a little sad this movie didn't get. And I guess it's just because it's so quiet and gentle. I don't know that this would have broken through.

[01:45:07] I think, look, I don't think it could have. Just because it can't be and I would have thought maybe, I don't know. I don't think it could have majorly broken through, but this movie made like less than a million dollars domestically?

[01:45:18] No, no, no, it made more than a million, I think. Let's see. I just feel like a Fox Searchlight or Universal Focus could have gotten this movie like two or three steps further. It made a healthy $4.4 million. Okay, you know what? It made 17 worldwide.

[01:45:31] That's better than I remember. It pretty much doubled its budget worldwide. Like it didn't hurt anyone's feelings. But yeah, I agree with you that in the hands of a Sony Pictures classics or whatever, it probably would have. Because I feel like Young Victoria did better than this

[01:45:46] and that had the benefit of even though being released by Apparition, it had like a bigger star and it had a more conventional like, oh, it's one of these. It's like a glitzy or hook. But it's bigger. I just worry that this is- That's a bigger movie.

[01:45:59] And I feel like the period pieces that were doing well at that time are like the Joe Wright ones, which are pretty big and that kind of thing. I mean, Young Victoria, it's just like we all know Victoria and everyone's like,

[01:46:12] old, always old, old lady, big black dress. And the guy's like. You know what? Not a lot of people know is that- I don't think I've seen it. You know that Victoria used to fuck her husband 18 billion times a day and had like 20 kids.

[01:46:28] And did you know, no one knows this, but Steve from Blue's Clues actually wrote the theme song for Young Victoria. Go right ahead. That's a joke for two people. Yeah, I've gotta say, I don't know it. He did the fucking theme song for Young Sheldon.

[01:46:41] People love to throw that out as a digi-no. Someone is speculating that Lynch is playing John Ford in this movie. Fuck! I mean, if that's true. Oh, fuck! Because I mean, I don't know what this movie is, how deep into Spielberg's career it's gonna get, like, but-

[01:46:58] No, but he's- He's told that story a lot. Ford's one of the first people he meets. God, fuck! Can you imagine David Lynch wearing an eye patch on screen? You know what? I can. I can imagine it. Can you imagine how much that's gonna fucking rock?

[01:47:15] Shall we play the box office game? Is there any more bright star we wanna get to? Fran? I love Toots. Just wanna say it, I love this child. I think she's so sweet, she's so cute. Let me give you a quote about her actually. Sorry, go ahead.

[01:47:29] Oh, I just think Campion's so great with kids. Shut up, kids! And the kids feel so perfectly kid-like. And hasn't done that many movies with kids, but always gets incredible, naturalistic performances from them. My favorite sequence in this movie is when Toots is sort of escorting them back

[01:47:44] from when Fanny and Keats have gone to make out, and that every time she turns around, they sort of freeze to kind of fuck with her a little bit. And I think it's such a gentle, jokey thing to do with a child.

[01:47:55] And I love when Toots tells John that she loves him. We've also talked about this a lot, David, but that's one of those movie star tests where you're like, are you good with kids? It's one of those things you kind of can't fake

[01:48:05] where it's like, oh, you have good chemistry with kids. You're either gonna be good at this or bad, right. Your craft is adaptable enough that kids act in totally different ways. Like any director who's good with kids talks about you gotta meet them where they are.

[01:48:18] Both of them are so fucking good with the kids. Let me read this quote as a perfect underlining of that. She was, Campion on Edie Martin, the actress playing Toots, she was wonderful, but because she was such a baby, she got frightened. She'd say she had tummy aches.

[01:48:31] I calmed her down by showing her how to create a bubble for herself. It's easy. You stretch out your arms, and that excludes all the people who are making you nervous. My job was just to help her relax and be herself.

[01:48:41] I told her to forget about the camera, and then I left her alone. But I just love this image of Campion being like, make a bubble. That is so fucking sweet. Isn't it? I'm really touched by that. Griffin's moved by that. I'm really moved by that.

[01:48:51] There's that great Tom Hardy profile in maybe Esquire, where they run into a father and toddler, and Tom Hardy tries to speak to the toddler, because I guess he loves kids, and the kid is immediately afraid. And Hardy has this great quote of,

[01:49:05] I can see I frightened you, and I'm walking away. Just immediately excuses himself. It's like, I see what I've done here. I'm removing myself from the situation. But that weirdly shows you that he's good with kids. Absolutely, absolutely. He's like, I'm not salvaging this.

[01:49:17] I came on too strong. I came on with that. And I'm sensitive enough that I want to defer to you. You get it. I can see I've upset you. I give you the high ground. Maybe it's like, I will disappear or something. It's so good. That's so good.

[01:49:30] Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Anyway, let's play the box office game. This movie came out September 18th, 2009. Not a good release date in my opinion. No, that's not. Don't dump this movie there. That's that kind of zone where it's like. Right after TIFF. Right. Early Oscar.

[01:49:45] And you're like, is this gonna be a slow burn? Do we need to long play it? Because it's not gonna pop until November, December. We gotta just keep it burning until then. Apparition didn't have the strength to keep it going that long.

[01:49:56] It looks like they did this all wrong. They opened it on. It's unbelievable they were actually called Apparition and that they were just like. They put it on 19 screens. That feels wrong. Put it on either two or 200. I don't know. Anyway, it opens number 33. Okay.

[01:50:13] I mean, it's a small release obviously. But this is a four out of five new movies week. Wow, okay. In the top five. So it's September 2009. Correct, and the first, the number one film of the week is an animated film that you're very fond of.

[01:50:31] It's not Hotel Transylvania. No. 2009, it's not Coraline. No. 2009. Dude, you keep saying 2009. Yeah, no, no, no, because I'm trying to think. Animated film. The best animated film nominees in 2009 are up. Coraline. Sure. Fantastic Mr. Fox. I believe it. Secret of Kells. Good movie.

[01:50:56] And was this movie nominated or was it snubbed? Let's find out. Animated feature film of the year. I'm like, is this the fifth that I'm forgetting or was it really snubbed? It was not nominated. The fifth nominee was The Princess and the Frog.

[01:51:08] But this movie probably could have deserved a nom. But that's five good nominees, so maybe not. Yeah. It's a comedy. It's based on a children's book. It's a comedy that's based on, what form of animation is this, CGI? 3D CG. I might know. Go on.

[01:51:22] Is it Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs? Sure is! Of course. It's a great movie. Yeah, it's a wonderful film. But do you put it in those five? I would, I mean, you know I'm not very fond of Princess and the Frog, which you think is rude.

[01:51:34] I don't like up. I also, up is near the bottom of my pretty ranking. I think up's pretty flawed, but there's things about up that are impressive. I like up. I just think it is very flawed, almost intrinsically flawed in a canon

[01:51:48] that I think includes like double digit perfect movies. Sure. But I guess I keep up and I put Cloudy over Princess and David would say rude. Rude. Number two at the box office is a, based on a true story film from one of our great directors.

[01:52:05] Other three movies in that five are obviously undeniable bangers. Oh, in animated films. Sure, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, sorry, go on. Kind of like a satire comedy, black comedy, physical transformation. It's The Informant. Yeah, Matt Damon is The Informant. Yeah. A movie I'd like to rewatch.

[01:52:25] I've only seen the one time. Never seen it. Matt Damon. He's The Informant. Yeah, there's that great Paul Tompkins bit about Matt Damon eating the cube. Yeah. One of my favorite Paul Tompkins standup bits of all time where he talks about like having,

[01:52:38] like being at a dinner with Matt Damon and Matt Damon eats like a blue cube and Paul Tompkins is like, why is no one talking about this? Why is he eating a cube? He shot it. I mean, it's like some weight loss thing

[01:52:50] that like only rich actors know. He shot it like sandwiched in between two Damon action movies, I think. Yeah, or like an Ocean's End, a Born. Right, like he had to look like Matt Damon right before and right after with no time

[01:53:02] and there was this cube that somehow stabilized his weight. It's like a blue cube, you just have to listen to it because there's this moment where Paul Tompkins is like, what about the cube? Anyway, it's really good. And I feel like this is a trick he has used

[01:53:14] a number of times since then. He certainly does it in Magic Mike and behind the candelabra and fucking the laundromat and all these movies. But that's a movie where like everyone in the supporting cast outside of Damon, Bacula and Melanie Linsky is primarily a comedian. Right, yes, absolutely.

[01:53:39] Like it's like Joel McHale and the Smothers Brothers and Tom Papa and Paul Tompkins and all these fucking people. And I was just like, why is he only pulling from comedians? And he's like, in movies like this where you have a lot of like bureaucrats

[01:53:51] and government agents and these characters who are like functionaries and have a lot of exposition, it can get so dry that I find if you hire comedians, people who are innately funny and tell them to play it entirely straight, it still gives it a little more energy

[01:54:05] than dramatic actors who try to turn it into something. And I just think it's always interesting now where I look for that in those sorts of roles where it's like, oh, Cristela Alonso is like the cop in this because she'll just give it a little something.

[01:54:19] A smart director, that's a smart way to use actors. I'm excited for Kimmy. Kimmy. Out next week. Kimmy. Kimmy. Number three is a Tyler Perry film. Okay, 2009. Would it be? I love how it's a Tyler Perry film. There's just such a vast amount of guesses.

[01:54:32] No, but I think I might be able to get this. Is it Madea Goes to Jail? Nope. Fuck. I think that's 2010. He's doing two a year. He's mostly doing about two a year. This would be a non-Madea, right? This is a Madea movie. Fuck.

[01:54:47] Okay, but that makes me think she's not in the title. She sure isn't. Okay, it's not, is it Meet the Browns? No. Uh, it's not Family Appraise. No. I don't think Madea's in that one. No, I don't either. That's why I said it's not.

[01:55:02] Stupid, stupid to even verbalize. Stupid, stupid. Dumb, dumb, dumb fucking idiot. Okay. Stop, stop. Okay, Madea's on the title. Star as an Oscar nominee. Oh, it's I Can Do Bad All By Myself. I Can Do Bad All By Myself. Good title. I should've known that,

[01:55:19] because the apartment I lived in in 2009, we got that poster when they threw it out outside of a movie theater and we put it outside the wall. The thing with, I love Tyler Perry movie posters that are like that, that are like a flower

[01:55:30] with a face in it that are impressionistic versus the ones that are just like, Madea, and she's like kind of just whatever, doing something. Some of those posters are so fucking good. The guy who was the graphic marketing guy for Lionsgate was a genius and released

[01:55:45] a coffee table book of all of his work, which is really underrated in terms of how much he got. Lionsgate stole 10% of the market share of the US box office for those years just through posters and billboards and shit. This is the poster I'm referring to.

[01:56:01] Every Tyler Perry movie pretty much had two posters, one of which was sort of abstract, poetic. And one of which was the comedy poster. But it wasn't even necessarily that they'd be teasers, they'd have both of them up simultaneously and just hit different markets.

[01:56:16] This is the sort of main poster, which is also still fairly dreamy and impressionistic. It's the least. But then you're forgetting with this that there was also a third poster that is a parody of the Straw Dogs poster. Exactly, thank you. Right. Madea's glass is breaking.

[01:56:30] Right, they'd always do that. Like even going back to Diary of a Mad Black Woman, the main poster's a flower and then the second poster is like Madea holding a gun to camera. That's right. All right, number four at the box office

[01:56:42] is one of those movies where I'm like, I guess I remember what this is. Oh fuck, it's a romantic drama with two actors who I feel like at this point should be riding high. And it's kind of a star of how these actors

[01:56:58] really needed to be with other stars to be stars. This is a movie that has the title and tagline of a fake movie in another movie. It's not Time Traveler's Wife. No, no, no, that's way too good. Right. For what this is.

[01:57:13] This is a movie no one remembers. This is a movie like in a movie like fucking Don John gets dragged to see this movie by Scarlett Johansson. He's like, I hate chick flicks. Right. I like porn flicks. It's not definitely maybe. That's what he would do.

[01:57:26] But it's like a definitely maybe adjacent film. Is it like a Sparks thing? No. Is it based on anything? No. I believe the man is playing a widow. It's not Knights in Redanthi, is it? Okay. Good movie that Fran watched recently, right?

[01:57:44] I watched on a, yeah, well my thing I wanna say about it is a spoiler. Yeah, well don't spoil it. Okay, I fell asleep and I woke up 10 minutes later and the stakes had drastically changed. I was like, what the hell? But I love Richard E. White.

[01:57:59] It's about a widower who dates a florist. It's about a widower who dates. Okay, I'm gonna have to give you more clues. The star, the male lead had just been in a huge superhero film the previous year. Okay, 2009. Is it Robert Downey Jr.? No.

[01:58:16] 2008, there was a huge superhero film. Yes, and what's it called? Right, so there's Dark Knight. It was a big deal, the Dark Knight, yes. He's in the Dark Knight? He sure is. Who's in the Dark Knight? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

[01:58:29] Is this the fucking Aaron Eckhart, Jennifer Aniston movie? It sure is, and what's it called? It's called Love Happens. And what's the tagline? Sometimes when you least expect it, dot, dot, dot, love happens. He plays like a motivational speaker? Correct, he's a self-help author who is a widow.

[01:58:44] Yeah. Widower, sorry. And Jennifer Aniston is a florist. And guess what they date? I wonder if I've seen this. I was gonna say, I've definitely never seen this. Martin Sheen, Judy Greer, Danny Fogar? I think I've maybe seen this. Well, Love Happens, it's opening number four,

[01:58:58] but holy shit, it's still beating number five and the beloved cult classic that put its filmmaker in director jail will probably do her one day. It would have to be, it could be nothing but Jennifer's Body. It's Jennifer's Body, which could not even topple

[01:59:10] Love Happens in its opening weekend. This was its opening weekend? Number five, opening at $6 million. You've also got Nine, remember Nine? The Italian. No, the other one. The animated film. There were two Nines in 2009. That was like- Sure, this is not the Italian. This was numeral nine.

[01:59:28] This is the animated one? It was like a student film that fucking Tim Burton and Tim Moore, whatever his name is, who did- I do remember this. What are those movies called? The Vampire, Night, Day? Yeah, Day Watch, Night Watch. They were like, this is the new guy

[01:59:45] and he's got a whole fucking world. We're gonna make sequels. And that movie came out and when Focus was like releasing like a movies and like, maybe we can release mid-budget animated films and it made very little impact. And that guy has like never done anything ever again.

[01:59:58] Shane Acker? I believe you. Nine, Nine. I just remember seeing that trailer like way too many times. Shane Acker, you're correct. And it's got like Elijah Wood, Christopher Cullen, Christopher Plummer, it's like all high-profile. No Fergie, right? No Fergie. Be cool. You've also got Inglourious Bastards.

[02:00:17] I was gonna ask about that. Still in there. Still in there. You got All About Steves cause this is the Sandra Bullock flop hype year. Yeah. You've got Sorority Row. Don't remember that. No, that's like a 70s horror remake with I wanna say Rumour Willis. Correct.

[02:00:36] I believe Carrie Fisher plays the headmistress or something. You're right. And The Final Destination. Is that the fourth? Fifth? Yes, right. Cause then they make Final Destination 5 after that. It is such a box office boom. Yeah, it was like a slight reboot, right?

[02:00:52] It was kind of been a few years. No, it was supposed to be the last. They call it the because they were like, wait, we're done. They run out of steam. And then they add 3D on this one and it explodes overseas.

[02:01:02] And then they're like JK, JK Final Destination 5. It was supposed to be full finale. And now it's getting rebooted. You're top 10 for Bright Star. We're done, Fran. Wow, we did it. Yeah. Wow, we did it. Can I plug some poets that I know? Poet time, baby.

[02:01:23] I complained about poets a lot when I was in my graduate program because they lived around the corner from me and drove me insane. But the fact is that the economy of like doing poetry as your job is basically the same now as it was in like 1818,

[02:01:36] except there are more types of jobs people can have that they can do while they're doing poetry. It is funny that this, like there's this idea of like, you should be able to make a living doing poetry and now all poets are broke.

[02:01:47] And you watch this movie and you're like, nah, it's never been like a booming industry. No, it's like even now it's like maybe there are three professional full-time poets. You gotta get the laureate. Yeah, yeah, the laureate and then two guys who should have gotten the laureate.

[02:01:59] Right, who else? But I went to school with a lot of great poets who I loved and I just wanna sort of, there's if you wanna read books, Tracy Fuad has a great book called About Blank. Anna Portnoy Brimmer has To Love an Island. Ananda Lima has Motherland.

[02:02:16] These are all books that came out if you're like, I wanna read an 80 page book, which is a great length of book to read if you're like, I feel bad that I don't read more books. But then Spencer Williams who does stuff

[02:02:26] at Bright Wall Dark Room with me is an amazing poet. Sydney Jin Choi, Weston Ritchie, Walter Ancaro, Emily Luan. You could Google any of these people with poet and you're gonna find a bunch of their stuff. And these are like poets who I think are amazing

[02:02:41] who are all working in different forms and doing stuff that excites me when I see and hear about it. And it's tough because I think what makes poets now not unlike then is getting the book deal, but that is a really, really hard thing to do.

[02:02:53] So most of them publish online and for free. For free for you to read. It's the one benefit that it is easier to distribute poetry these days. Absolutely. It is no easier to monetize it. True, yes distribution. And I think poetry is deceptively accessible too.

[02:03:08] And I like the way she writes Keats explaining like, when you dive into a lake, the goal is not immediately getting back to shore. It's being in the lake. And I think people are like, I don't understand poetry. Poetry makes no sense.

[02:03:20] And it's like, I think that's cause you're looking for like a three act structure in a poem when they don't have that. Whereas poetry, almost more like it's a quick bite of content. Like I don't even know what word I would use to describe. Oh my God. Wow.

[02:03:33] I can't believe you would summon it. That's what Katzenberg should pivot to. $100 billion for poets. Yeah. That'd be good. You think kids wanna read poems while taking a shit or waiting for a bus? Maybe. Yeah. Poetry's good. Who am I to say they aren't? Yeah. I love poetry.

[02:03:51] Shout out to Edgar Allen Poe. Sure. Trying to think of some other poets I like. Yeah, he needs it. Poe's been hurting. That's true. He does need the attention. Actually, you know what? Poe, he's a great, you can visit a ditch in Baltimore where they found him.

[02:04:08] There you go. Is that true? Ditch history. Ditch history. Rich history, ditch history. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Fran. Fair enough. Fran, I'm a fan. You're frantastic. You're frantastic. Thank you. Thank you for gracing us with your presence and kindly gifting us with another Fran bump.

[02:04:30] Happy to do it. Ready for our Breitzer episode. You guys need it. Suplex three watchables. Struggling podcast, I know you do. Pop culture happy hour. We're just gonna fuckin' give him a pile driver this week. This is one of my favorite movies. Had to have Fran.

[02:04:45] I was saying, this is probably the best movie I've talked about on here. Not to discredit Aliens, but. I mean, you've talked about some good movies. You've talked about some pretty good movies. I'm pretty lucky right now. About the holidays, skee-wee-dee-doop. I know. Well, that's a perfect movie.

[02:04:56] Sort of in another class. Public Enemy is like the worst movie you've covered and it's a pretty fascinating film. Totally, yeah. Yeah. And, look, you so kindly and generously plug some of your favorite poets, but you should plug your own work and people should read. Fran Magazine.

[02:05:13] Fran Magazine.substack.com. It's so good, guys. I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm ready to get bought out though after three weeks. Someone should, right? Oh yeah. Katzenberg? Low seven figures. Katzenberg, if you're listening. Get the Wyrtle deal. Oh, I would take low seven.

[02:05:30] Yeah, Fran Magazine.substack.com. I'm on Twitter and Letterboxd all under my own name. Bright World Dark Room always has great stuff. I haven't done anything with them for a sec, but I'm editing and I'm helping out. Yeah. You were very involved in the Margaret issue, right?

[02:05:47] No, I wasn't involved in the Margaret issue because I only just watched Margaret probably three months ago for the first time and had a meltdown. Yeah, it does that to you, huh? Yeah. And I was like, I can never sit through this again. But that issue is incredible.

[02:06:00] Yeah, it's amazing stuff. No, I wrote for Best of 2021 on The Souvenir Part Two. Perfect movie. Which cut of Margaret did you watch? I watched whatever was on Criterion when it was on there. So I think directors. Okay. Is that the good one? I disagree with some people,

[02:06:19] but I also just think it's interesting to watch both of them. I want like New World style, like five cuts of that movie circulating. Sure. That would be really unsettled. That movie unsettled the shit out of me so much. I can't think about it too hard.

[02:06:31] But in like four years, I'm gonna come back to it and watch it like three times in a week. And then I'll be like, I'm in. Can he make another movie? His Howard's End is so good. Can I plug his Howard's End? Oh, Matthew McFadien. Folks.

[02:06:47] We love him. And we love our friend. We do. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media. Joe Bowen and Pat Rellins for our artwork. Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song.

[02:07:07] Alex Barron, AJ McKeon for our editing. JJ Birch, Nick Loreano for our research. We have a website now. There will be a website now by the time you're listening to this. I mean, I think it's happening. Yeah, I think it'll be.

[02:07:23] So just check social media for a website which now contains all the things I used to have to spend 25 to 45 seconds plugging individually. But we should say that if you go to patreon.com slash blank check, you can get blank check special features.

[02:07:35] We're about to go back to the matrix. Yes. Back to where it all started. Back to the matrix. Have you ever gone back to the matrix? I have, David's giving me the wrap it up fingers. Next week, power of the dog. We fucking caught up to present day.

[02:07:52] Woof woof. Off the leash. Excited, excited, excited. So yeah, tune into that. And as always, Paul Schneider come back. But every time we tell the story every fucking time, but in the early days of the show, we went in for a meeting with a big podcast network

[02:08:21] and they were looking at our numbers and they said, who is the guest on this episode? You really do say this every time. You say this every time. Every time. I want this out of the episode. It's so funny. No, this, we can't do this.

[02:08:31] And he was like, my friend is here. This is embarrassing to me now. Have room. Because I have no job. Where is this man? I want a job. I want to say something that's new.