College / Steamboat Bill, Jr. with John Hodgman

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Your speech was ridiculous. Anyone prefers a podcast to a weak-kneed teacher's pet.

[00:00:27] Mmm, that's true. If you change your mind about podcasts, then I'll change my mind about you. I forgot there was a second part. I remember the teacher's pet part. Yeah. You know what I like about these? Uh, they're written out.

[00:00:40] Yeah, and also no one can say that I'm doing a bad impression. But it's probably not what Buster Keaton sounds like. That's not him! That's the girl! I know, but then the retort. That was all her! It's all her? Yes, she's saying. She's offering the ultimatum. Right.

[00:00:55] When you change your mind about athletes, I'll change my mind about you. Yeah, sure. She's putting the plot into motion. That's all her. That's all her. No, Buster sounds like this. What? What are you talking about? That's what I think he sounds like, right?

[00:01:07] Yeah, well, he's like this, kind of. Yeah, right. Yeah. He's gravely. He was gravely. I mean, you know. Probably was less gravely as a younger man. Yeah, but even still, I think he was always, he had a harsher voice than one would imagine.

[00:01:20] Have you seen, like, you know, What No Beer or whatever? Like the early talkies? May I come in? Yes! May I come in? Yes! With Jimmy Durante. Yeah, I just discovered that for the first time in my life. That they, like, forced him into these movies.

[00:01:36] They forced him into a two-hander, three of them. What? No Beer? I kind of like What No Beer. What No Beer is a great title. It's an incredible title. It's an incredible title for a movie. It's an incredible title.

[00:01:47] It's three movies with Jimmy Durante that were big hits. Speak Easily, The Passionate Plumber, and What No Beer? What No Beer, though, is the best title. Dude, they figure it out. Like, do they get beer? Yeah. It's a prohibition comedy in which they start manufacturing near beer.

[00:02:05] They do get beer at the end. Yeah. I will tell you that beer becomes legal at the end of the movie. Yeah. And they start drinking beer, and then Jimmy Durante holds a beer aloft to the camera and says, It's your turn, folks. Cha-cha-cha-cha!

[00:02:21] You know, so, like, you know, basically saying to the audience, like, let's all drink, you know? This shit's over with. Yes. Of all the completely random duos that could be imagined. It's a star. It's like Prohibition literally at the end of the year came out.

[00:02:35] Two different bingo balls full of, you know, up-and-coming stars and declining stars. Yes. Incredibly. Like Jimmy Durante and Buster Keaton. And just completely incompatible sensibilities. Yeah, absolutely. There's something I find interesting about those movies, because you're just like, well,

[00:02:50] this is just such a horrible comedy team, but the two of them are funny individually. But they just have not much chemistry together. None. Sure. Jimmy Durante had the schnoz, right? He would always talk about how big his schnoz was. The schnoz is very big. Right. The schnozola.

[00:03:04] Yeah. He was a talker. He was a gabber. He was a talker. And you know who wasn't? Buster Keaton. Wasn't much of an actor and he wasn't much of a physical comedian. He wasn't much of a sound actor. He was a great actor. Yes.

[00:03:14] You know, in his way, obviously. He's a great performer. Yes. But right, like, I don't know. But he wasn't a very emotional actor. Right. No, he was a character. He was a good performer. He was a character. Buster Keaton was a great actor and a terrible speaker.

[00:03:27] There's a, there's a. When I heard him speak. It's kind of bizarre. Yeah. It's, it was not merely uncanny and unnerving. Yeah. Because his voice to me sounds like this weird complaining honk. Interesting. Yeah, there is something bizarrely. There's a rasp to it.

[00:03:45] But there's something kind of sour to it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you know, when I see his face. Yes. It's full of depth. Yes. And like, I just think of like his voice should sound like the bottom of the ocean. It's so.

[00:04:00] It should sound like Mandy Patinkin singing. Yeah. For example. Yes. It should sound like Mandy Patinkin singing. It should sound like Mandy Patinkin singing. Okay. I just didn't. The voice sounds and there's nothing against. I mean, it was his voice. What could you do? Nothing.

[00:04:15] Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But it sounded so pedestrian. Yes. Compared to the depth of emotion that would be conveyed by his face. Yes. Even in those talking pictures and then also the talking pictures. Yes.

[00:04:28] You know, I felt very, it felt very awkward to me because his timing still seems to be based on silent films. Yeah.

[00:04:36] So like he'll just sit there and react for a while and then all of a sudden he'll open his mouth like five minutes later and say the line.

[00:04:43] Well, what's funny is like what No Beer has like one incredible sequence, which is basically like a sequence he's reused a couple times in his career. But there's a bit with him trying to fit into a voting booth with a large guy. Okay. Yeah.

[00:04:57] And it's just him having to share the space with this other guy. And it's a lot of fun. But you're like, oh, right. It works when the movie splits him up from Durante and puts him in a situation where he doesn't have to talk at all. Right.

[00:05:11] Despite Marriage, which we'll get to next week when he started with MGM where they were like, come on, these aren't silent anymore. He still was trying to thread this needle of like, can I do like Mr. Bean style comedies? Right. Can I speak an absolute minimum? Right.

[00:05:26] People around me can talk. There are sync sound in the movie. We can have music. We can have sound effects. Right. But my character is not a talker by nature. But yeah, that's it. It does. It does throw things off.

[00:05:38] He's a total genius, but he's not there for verbal repartee. No. And Ben made a good point, which is like where you were sort of asking me, you were like, so he did do patter. He comes from Vaudeville.

[00:05:51] It's not like he didn't know how to sell a joke. He had those skills. He did it for many years, like since when he was a little kid. And when he does verbal comedy, you're like, he does understand where the joke is. He's a good performer. Yeah.

[00:06:03] But it breaks the persona. It's just one of the many humiliations and tragedies that befell this incredible creator. Yes. That he had to, the circumstances were such that he had to speak in order to make money. And leave the talking to us. That's if we've learned anything here.

[00:06:21] This is the place to talk on a podcast. That's right. Listen, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies.

[00:06:30] Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy, passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. It's a miniseries on the films of Buster Keaton. It's called Podcast Junior.

[00:06:45] Today we are talking about one of the two movies that gave this miniseries its title. Okay. It's about Bill Jr. Yes. And also talking about college. College! College! And these are his last two Buster Keaton productions films.

[00:07:02] These are the last two films in the original sort of blank check run of Mr. Skank has put in the bill and you can do anything you want. You have complete creative control and autonomy. No one can rein you in. And how do you pronounce his name?

[00:07:19] Mr. Skank? We were corrected on this. I thought it was Shink. That's what I would have thought too. But Dana said it was Skank, right? Mr. Skank. Skank. Yeah, the skanky motherfucker. Our guest today is himself one skanky motherfucker. Hello.

[00:07:34] He's a dear friend of the podcast and of mine and of ours. Aww. And of America's. Aww. Skucks. Up here streaming now on Hulu? I am not available to promote any WGA contracted productions. Oh, can I promote? You certainly may.

[00:07:55] You can talk about whatever you're watching on streaming or television. Also on Hulu still? This is a fact. Okay. Vacationland is available on paperback? Vacationland is available in paperback. And of course, the, the, of course, hosted the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Judge John Hodgman podcast.

[00:08:12] Gentleman John Hodgman back on the channel. Gentleman John. Yes. How do you do? We were trying to fill this last slot and then I went, wait a second. Why not Gentleman John? J-H. He's a, he's a foppy weirdo. I said Gentleman John.

[00:08:22] Let him come in with his diamond tip cane. He's got radio voice. Anyone with radio voice probably likes Buster Keaton. Yes. Yes. I love Buster Keaton quite a bit. But, but, but a fan of the old stuff. Yeah. Cause I'm very elderly. Yeah.

[00:08:37] As we established when we came in. The simpler times? Simpler times. Ben, you had a question for John. What's the question Ben? I wanted to ask John just, you know, what were steamboats like? Very smooth ride. Very smooth ride. Were they really? Cause it's very still waters. Yeah.

[00:08:55] Yeah. And what were the snacks on board? Snack situation. Mostly Sarsaparilla. Oh, okay. And Welsh rarebit. Welsh rarebit. Pickled eggs? Pickled eggs? Pickled eggs. All kinds of different pickles. And, um, and then there would be a poker game.

[00:09:09] And if you got caught cheating, you'd be thrown into the rotors. You'd be thrown right at. Yeah. Sarsaparilla is like a, it's kind of like a root beer, right? Like a root beer. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever had it.

[00:09:21] Is that something that gets sold these days? Surprisingly, there's no artisanal spot in Brooklyn making Sarsaparilla. You'd think there would be. Well, but here's the thing. Unsurprisingly, you go to any comic convention of a certain size.

[00:09:34] I don't know if it's one company always or there are a couple rival companies that all do this that have like a booth that looks like an old timey saloon. And you can buy an old timey mug and get Sarsaparilla refills all day. What? What?

[00:09:51] But it's just root beer. Yeah. But it's just, but it tastes like more. Like birch beer or whatever. Yeah. Birch beer or root beer? Let's go around the horn. Ben, birch beer or root beer? Mmm, that's tough. I'm going to go with birch beer. Wow.

[00:10:04] Okay, go to David next because I should be last. I'm going root beer. I don't drink a lot of birch beer, I'm going to be honest. No. That's a rare confection for me to be, but yeah, no, I like root beer. Root beer is great. And Griffin?

[00:10:17] Oh, who, me? Yeah. What's the question? Birch beer or root beer? What? Both are trash. No! That is my opinion. Trash? I don't like either. Correct answer is birch beer, but why do you, you don't care if it's birch beer? Absolutely. It's spicier. Spicier.

[00:10:34] But it's like at a certain point, I was looking to be refreshed here. I know. My mouth tastes like wood slurry. I don't drink a lot of soda, I want to be slapped in the face. Yeah, see both of those sodas feel like ork tea.

[00:10:47] I like what's, uh, Sprecher's? Sprecher's is good. Root beer. I like Sprecher's. They're all kind of strong. What is this, suddenly a Fizzy Boys episode? Bring it back. Fizzy Boys. Fizzy Boys. I apologize. Yeah, no, it's fine. Let's move on. Sarsaparilla. John, sarsaparilla.

[00:11:01] I feel like when I had sarsaparilla at some ye olde comic convention. Sure. That's as strange as Buster Keaton and Jimmy Durante being paired together. Yeah, it really is. Yeah. Oh yeah, at Comic-Con you're always going to have an old-timey saloon.

[00:11:13] I'm telling you, people are going to say I know what he's talking about. There's always a fucking booth that looks like a giant oak barrel. I believe you because, not to speak, not to characterize Comic-Con attendees a certain way. Freedom for filth?

[00:11:27] But they are the types who are kind of like, rather than drinking alcohol for recreational pleasure, like many red-blooded Americans, instead they want to overpay for some kind of fancy pants non-alcoholic soda served by a guy in suspenders. Yes. And they're going to be like, thank you sir.

[00:11:44] They're also wearing suspenders. They're also wearing fucking suspenders. I don't mean any disrespect to suspenders wearers out there. Yes. There's suspenders all the way down. Yes. Yes. But John, I said, do you like Buster Keaton? And your response was, he is my favorite. He is my favorite.

[00:12:05] I love Buster Keaton and I bonded very early with Buster Keaton because— You were childhood friends. We grew— Yep, we were on the vaudeville stage together. It's a bit for us to be doing that John Hodgman is 125 years old. He said we bonded early on.

[00:12:20] I know, it's funny. No, it's funny. You do the joke. I'm just saying like, it's funny that there's a motif of our episode. Sure. Yeah. I grew up in a town called Brookline, Massachusetts. Heard of it. Where there is a movie theater called the Coolidge Corner.

[00:12:34] A lovely, wonderful theater. You always shout it out. And I worked there for a number of years. I didn't know that I knew that. Yeah. What'd you do? I did it all. I consessed. Ripped tickets. I ticket ripped. I took the money. I counted the money.

[00:12:49] Stole the money. I didn't project. That's a union job. Yeah, and that, especially back then, that's quite a technical job. Yeah, absolutely. That was Harry Friedman. He was— Not at Harry. Yeah, and there's a number of other projectors. But no, I ran the hokey cat over the carpet.

[00:13:05] That's like a little carpet sweeper. Yeah, I have one of those to this day. Ran the hokey cat over the carpet. Ran the hokey cat over the carpet. Does sound a little naughty. Well, no, that was my vaudeville show. Sure.

[00:13:20] I want to come home and run the hokey cat over the carpet. I want to go back and run the hokey cat over the carpet. Okay, so you did it all at the Coolidge Corner.

[00:13:27] I did it all at the Coolidge Corner, and it is still there on Harvard Street in Brookline, Massachusetts. You should go. Back in the day, before I worked there when I was but a affected, pretentious preteen,

[00:13:43] they had a lot of repertory arthouse movies, and they would do runs. I don't know if you understand the concept of filmographies, but they might show all of the movies of one director. All movies exist in a silo only to themselves.

[00:14:00] I guess they must have had all the Buster Keaton movies in the basement because they would do a Buster Keaton run. It felt like every other month. Sure. Just show them all. Look, he's well-liked. People like Buster Keaton. Dust off, put them all up again.

[00:14:16] What are we talking about? What years are we talking? Are we talking the 90s, the 80s? When is this happening? It would have been probably 1928 or so. Who's seeing them first run? Buster retrospectives, the guy who's fucking 32 years old. They finally hit Brookline.

[00:14:34] No, I mean this would have been the—so I would have been 11, 12, 13, so the early 80s. You were working in the theater at 11? No, no, no, I worked there later. Oh, you were first to seize the film. Yes, yes. What happened in the Coolidge Corner.

[00:14:50] Yeah, no, but they would show lots and lots of old movies, and they showed a lot of Buster Keaton, and I would go and see them. You'd take the Green Line, I assume. I would take the Green Line. I would take the C train. C! That's right.

[00:15:03] Goes to Coolidge. I love Subways everywhere. I understand. I love Subways, near and far. I was just like, wait a minute, is this the new bit that you grew up in Brookline?

[00:15:11] No, but you know, as you may or may not, a lot of my family lives in Boston. Gotcha. I spent a lot of time in Boston, including a wonderful summer once where I interned at the Boston Phoenix. Now fully departed. Completely. Much like the Village Voice. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:28] But back in the day. And that was my alt weekly, and I listened to WFNX, their radio station, which was their alt radio station. Anyway. You're an early convert. Yeah, and so I would go and see everything there, and I loved Buster Keaton a lot.

[00:15:46] And what I remember at the time, so this probably was when I was like a fresh person in high school. Mm-hmm. I went to see it, and my memory is that Valerie Gintis' dad was the one who explained to me the sad trajectory of Buster Keaton's. Oh, sure.

[00:16:04] He was on top, and then, you know, the talkies came in. Yeah, they put it all in context for me. It's like, you know, Buster Keaton was arguably as talented and famous, if not more talented than some of the others. Yes. Charlie Chaplin.

[00:16:20] Charlie Chaplin has been bodied on almost every episode of this mini-series. I like him. I do too. I am. I'm sorry, let me clarify. I don't want to. I'm a big fan of his personal life. I'm not crazy about the movies. I also like Charlie Chaplin.

[00:16:35] I think there have been some listeners who've been a little like, excuse me, like Charlie Chaplin is very. Important canonical director. Of course. Absolutely he is. He has never really been my guy. No, he's not. No.

[00:16:48] I'm not surprised how important this has been coming up over and over again. Obviously he is the great, you know, whatever. He's the great figure. He's the little Tramp. Wait, what? Wait, he was playing that guy the whole time? Yes.

[00:17:01] No, because my favorite movie star, of course, is Little Tramp. Love that guy. That guy's great. Yeah, no, that's Charlie Chaplin. I thought he was just like Monsieur Verdu and like the great dictator. That was it.

[00:17:12] He thought he was the stuffy guy that Little Tramp always fucked with. Charlie Chaplin, you know. I understand why he makes all these movies, casts himself in the most boring role. Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:20] By the time I was in high school and readers of Vacationland, now available in paperback, will know this. Was that I was a cardigan wearing weirdo. Yeah. Who was bringing a briefcase to school. Yeah. And was intent upon leaping over sexual adolescence.

[00:17:37] You were just like, I'm going to barrel right to 55. Just going to skip it to become the gentleman bachelor that I was destined to be forever. What was in the briefcase? Like your homework? My papers. Like if your teacher was like, hey, do you have that paper?

[00:17:51] You're like, click. You know, like, yeah. Well, I think I have it here in this folio. Yeah, no, I was a fan of office products. Hey. And that was what I used to keep a backpack. Instead of a backpack, I brought a briefcase to school.

[00:18:05] It was a leather, soft leather satchel. Yeah. And your fellow students, they respected you for it. I was liked by everyone I met. I'll say this. Brookline was a weird place. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was. You did all right.

[00:18:20] I was so, because I also had, I also had very long hair. You posted a photo recently. Yeah. And I wore a Dr. Who scarf. Yes. People didn't know how to get at me. You were too fun. Do you know what I mean?

[00:18:32] You were kind of fun in the zone. Like, it was just too much, too much. Just leave him, just leave him alone. See, John, I have always thought about. Dr. Who is also too niche to be made fun of for in America in the 70s.

[00:18:43] It's like, no one's going to be like, ah, you love that fucking nerd. And what is he exactly? Is it a police box or a phone box? I don't understand. What is a police box? Sorry, go ahead.

[00:18:54] See, John, I've always thought of you as a man of honest eccentricities. Yeah. They do not, they do not strike me as. It's not affected. Yes, right. No one goes to school in a Dr. Who scarf.

[00:19:07] When I was about 13, I decided I would sit down and read the plays of Athol Fugard, the South African dramatist. And that was an affectation. At that moment, I'm like, this is not. This is what I'm saying. You posted this photo recently. Yeah.

[00:19:22] And I always just assume when you would tell these stories of being an ostentatious teenager, I'm like, he's being self-deprecating. He probably wore it as well as he wears it now. And then I looked at this photo and I was like, I know exactly who this kid was.

[00:19:34] Yeah, I think I had long hair and this. I don't remember who took that photo. You posted this on Instagram recently. I know, but someone else from high school posted it. OK, sure. From my high school. I don't remember anything about.

[00:19:47] It was a yearbook photo, I think or something. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was a jacket. That probably was like a school dance outfit. Oh, yeah. Look at you. You know, you have a bit of a Doctor Who about you. I was very, I was very whovian.

[00:20:00] Tom Baker was my guy. Yeah. And he was cool, but, you know, in his way. He was cool and definitely a gentleman bachelor. Mm hmm. Sexless. That's the thing. The Doctor Whos were all sexless until the reboot. Until they rebooted. They had to be a little sexier.

[00:20:14] But, you know, then they went to Peter Davison, the next one. He was sexier. I knew from watching the original All Creatures Great and Small. Bit of a heartthrob. With my mom and dad because I was an only child.

[00:20:25] And that's all we would do is just sit around and, you know, eat dinner on our laps and watch public television. Right. He's the same. And sane elsewhere. He's the one with the celery stalk. He had the celery stalk. Yeah.

[00:20:37] And he was wearing, and even, and he was wearing like a cricketing outfit. Yes, he had the cricketing. The celery stalk always struck me as like, we need to put something really silly on him because otherwise this guy's kind of just handsome and normal looking.

[00:20:47] Yeah, that's when I turned off. That's when I turned off Doctor Who because I was like, too sexy for me. Right. But you should have just clung on. We've gotten to Sylvester McCoy or whatever. Yeah, no, I really lost a lot of Doctor Who.

[00:20:59] We're going to cast a grouchy toad as this guy. And BBC was like, enough! Enough! You're cut off! No more Doctor Whos! So yeah, no, I, you know, I would wear a cardigan for an evening and go to the movie house as it was

[00:21:15] called then, the corner movie house. Sure, the pictures. And see these things. And maybe it was John Wolfe's father actually. I think it might have been. Maybe conflating the weird and wonderful dads that I got to know through my

[00:21:27] friends who sort of talked about how Charlie Chaplin retained creative control. Okay, yes. And Foster Keaton lost it and kind of lost everything as a result. And I had always heard the story was what I remember for a long time was that

[00:21:43] he didn't retain ownership of his films, but it wasn't that. It was that he gave up like he stopped making films for himself and he started working for money. He signed a deal with MGM,

[00:21:54] but also I mean we didn't find this in JJ's research from one of the earlier episodes that he never actually really owned serious stake in Buster Keaton productions. No, because Skank was... It was a company that was founded for him by Skank. He got Skanked.

[00:22:08] He got Skanked pretty hard. Real hard because right, like Skank eventually signs a deal. Initially they're being distributed by Metro, which is associated with MGM at a certain point. And then Skank signs a deal with UA, United Artists in its fledgling Charlie Chaplin, Mary Pickford, those guys.

[00:22:26] Please don't mention that name again. Sorry, Charlie Chaplin, Little Tramp. Mary Pickford is fine. She's all right. Yeah. And who was the other one? You know, Douglas Fairbanks. Yes. Yeah. And that's, you know, those are the last ones. This is, these ones we're watching were all United Artists.

[00:22:43] Yes. And same with General Navigator? General Navigator College, Steamboat Bill Jr. Am I wrong about this? Or the four UA ones? I have to look it up. Badling Butler was not General Was. So yes, exactly. Right. And then of course, then real MGM,

[00:23:06] you know, like he's actually being signed like as a company player by MGM for the right. And it was a classic. No, we're not. We want you to do your thing. Come aboard. Right. Yeah. We'll play it in the space. Yeah.

[00:23:20] And he makes I mean, we'll talk about this all next week, but he makes two more films kind of his way. And one of them, he's already starting to get bent out of shape. And then they start going. We tell you what you do.

[00:23:31] You do Jimmy Durante movies. You do a film like this. You do a film like that. And that's when I think he, you know, really kind of what wallowed in depression. Whatever the case, John Wolf's father or Val Gintis, his father framed it as a tragedy. Yeah.

[00:23:48] And that was music. That was a lot of music. Of course. Yeah. It's like, oh, this guy, you know, there was there was one guy who went straight to the top and this guy was a flawed and failed. He was failed by others. Yeah. Underdog.

[00:24:05] And that was immediately like, oh, that I'll, I'll I'll watch him for the rest of my life. Right. And that probably framed all of my intake of Charlie Chaplin, even at the Coolidge, because I was always like that guy won Buster Keaton lost in this cosmology.

[00:24:19] And I did. I mean, I do find Charlie Chaplin to be a little bit mawkish and sentimental, whereas Buster Keaton is funnier and I think more deeply emotional. And the other thing about Buster Keaton is that, you know, he could also play a foppish, affected creep. Incredibly well.

[00:24:38] And, and, you know, in all of his vulnerability, which you see it's all over his face, the fact that they call him stone faces, I'm sure it's been discussed. It's like, it's a crime to say that. Right.

[00:24:52] He's one of the best actors of the face of all time. Yes. Like there's so much motive. Totally. Totally. And it's like for all of the vulnerability and the sweetness and the yearning that he can convey in that face, he's equally good at conveying disdain, condescension,

[00:25:08] disgust at other people. And those, those, that's all my wheelhouse. Yeah. Yes. Yearning and condescension. Both sides of the coin. Yeah. I think also, I mean, I feel like... The coin of the Hodgman realm. Read some quote to this effect,

[00:25:21] but I think it also pissed him off that as his creative freedom was taken away, and Chaplin remains top of the world. Chaplin's output slows down so much. That's the thing. And Chaplin only makes a couple more movies. Right.

[00:25:36] So there's like 20 years of his life where Chaplin's like making three films and he's like, I'd be making four a year if they'd still let me. Because it's City Lights and Modern Romance that are the ones Chaplin is making in the 30s. Modern Times.

[00:25:49] Modern Romance is one of the funniest movies of all time. No, those two where he's making them out of step with... He's making silent films for a talky generation. And those are two great films. And that's exactly what Keaton would have loved to have kept doing.

[00:26:04] And they're obviously made at a very high production scale. And then he does Great Dictator, obviously, which is... Great Dictator. And that's it. And then Monte Verdu is like years later and that's after he's fled the country. And then the Brando one. And Keaton's in Limelight, isn't he?

[00:26:20] Keaton's in Limelight. Right. Yeah. But he's not in it enough. Right. That's how you put it to me. It's like... Well, it's... You almost want it to be a two-hander, but that's not quite the vibe. You do. And it's also... I've never seen that live.

[00:26:34] They're old comedy partners and they reunite for a final performance at the end. And it's a good extended sequence, but it should be the greatest sequence of all time. Yeah, but that's... And you can study it and go like...

[00:26:43] There are a lot of theories that Chaplin sort of... Knifed him. A little bit to the detriment of the movie itself. Yeah, knifed him. Knifed him. Chaplin's a knifer. And that's what the great Dan Stevens, author of Cameraman, now available in paperback, was saying.

[00:26:58] And I do think this is correct. The last 10, 15 years of his life were a bit of an upswing. There was the great tragedy that he did not get to maintain what he was doing for the entirety of his career.

[00:27:09] But the MGM period is really where he's just like fucking depths of despair. But he is making successful films. He is. And we'll talk about this in a bit. Many of them are hits. Yeah.

[00:27:21] Yeah, but it's not anything that he's known for and it's not anything that he's created. When you see him next to Jimmy Durante, he does not seem like a happy person. No. What? No beer? I just love the idea of going to the picture window, you know.

[00:27:36] One for what? No beer? And they're like, huh? One for what? No beer? Like you gotta hit the intonation. Otherwise at The Coolidge we would never sell you a ticket unless you did the whole thing. You gotta hit the punctuation.

[00:27:48] I'm gonna pull it up here, but I feel like in college there's a scene where he goes to his dorm room and there's a sign behind him that says, what no beans? Yes, I saw that. I made a note of that.

[00:27:56] Right, and then I was trying to dig of like are both of these riffing on some phrase of the time? Oh, it could be like a Burma shave, like some old piece of advertising or something like that.

[00:28:07] Was what no beans a thing and is what no beer riffing on that or are both of them riffing on something else? Yeah, some kind of old collegey signifier like a straw boater in a fur coat. Yes. Yeah. I don't know. What no beans?

[00:28:19] I've never watched any of these films before. Yes, well, Steamboat Bill Jr. is my favorite. Okay. And I was very, very happy to get that one. Oh, I'm glad you nabbed it. Yeah, this has worked out well. It always is kind of getting their favorites. Yes.

[00:28:35] And college I had not seen because I would remember having seen it. I certainly had not seen college. Blah. I think college is the worst of his fields. It's terrible. I do have it ranked as the worst buster I have watched thus far.

[00:28:47] It's got a couple good things in it. It's just, it's just formless for this late in his, like, having watched things like The General and The Navigator and fucking, you know, Sherlock Jr. obviously.

[00:29:00] I'm just sort of like, it's weird that this is just kind of back to very, very sketchy kind of. Well, in your in your episode with Dana, you talked about how Buster Keaton really prefigured a lot of cartoons. Yes. And as well, specifically Looney Tunes. Mm hmm.

[00:29:16] And this that the extended sequence in college where he's trying out all the sports. Yes. To me felt like a dull Looney Tune. Like, you know, one of those things where it's like there's just a series of vignettes and each one has a gag built in.

[00:29:31] And, you know, you know, Porky Pig's going to try all the sports. Look, I'll say this. Right. I made this comment the day an episode and people were pushing back on it saying that Looney Tunes are more the descendants of Buster Keaton and the early Disney shorts

[00:29:47] are more the descendants of Charlie Chaplin. I don't know where people are pushing back on. I said, I mean, it's the kind of thing that will, you know, really start fights. You think stuff like that?

[00:29:59] There were there were the goofy shorts of I feel like the 40s, the 50s, maybe the color shorts. Yeah. Goofy like trying out different sports. That's maybe that's what I'm thinking of. Because really, because I laughed at Looney Tunes. Right. And I didn't laugh at Goofy.

[00:30:15] They would kind of never do something this mundane. Yeah. There was that point where Goofy sort of becomes like he's your like bumbling kind of like suburban everyman. Right. Before they totally domesticated him to George Gief. A subject Conor Aleph could talk to you about for hours.

[00:30:32] I am so historically and contemporarily disinterested in Disney animation. Yeah. Of those characters. You know what I mean? I never saw Goofy. I never saw Mickey Mouse. I never saw any of those. That whole section feels like some real goofy shit.

[00:30:49] But it also it's just that moment where you go like you're absolutely right. And I take back what I said because it is a dispersion against Looney Tunes, which are brilliant. Right. Bugs. Bugs would be more radical if he were to place him in the Olympics.

[00:31:00] I don't like Goofy. He's a kind of a goof. I don't like his vibe. He's weird. What's this deal? I just don't like him. What do you think of Goofy? I mean, he seems like kind of a dumbass. I wasn't going to say it. I don't know.

[00:31:19] That would be great. That would be great if they introduced a new character called Dumbass. This is for the first time introducing a new character to its core lineup. I love my ass. It's like 60 years. I like Donald Duck. That's it. Tom Duck's very Donald.

[00:31:35] I like those Donald Duck's got got a character. Yeah. Donald Duck gets frustrated. Donald Duck, you know, is angry at the world. And I grew up with the Duckiverse as well. That was very hot when I was a kid. The Duckbooks. All these guys. Of course, of course.

[00:31:53] DuckTales. I played Rocker Duck on DuckTales, the reboot. The new one. Which was an incredible experience. Who? I'm sorry to not know who that is. Rocker Duck? John Jacob. Oh, you're like Rockefeller? I just want to make sure I get the character's name right. Rocker Duck. Rocker Duck.

[00:32:13] Yeah, Rocker Duck. Donald's the one I like the most. John D. Rocker Duck. I played John D. Rocker Duck. Who was, yes, who was one of Uncle Scrooge's rivals. And was, I was the first person to ever do a voice for that character in the United States.

[00:32:30] That's exciting. He'd never been. What's that? Was the only character in the books before? He disappeared in the American, but in Italy and throughout Europe, in the Donald Duck comics, he's still a major foil for Uncle Scrooge McDuck.

[00:32:46] In Italy and throughout Europe, but never over here. So that was very exciting for me. That's great. I also take back my aspersions against Disney. No, there's stuff I like there, but yes. Goofy's just like an asshole. Look, Goofy's a goof. He's a goof.

[00:33:01] Yeah, he says he's a goof, but I think he might just suck. We should call him Sucky. I think it's kind of like Madonna, where every four years there'd be like a radical reinvention.

[00:33:09] And some of them really suck. I think they're funny periods of Goofy, but they'd be like, forget it. Goofy's a different thing now. And then like, what are the phrases of Goofy that I'm missing here?

[00:33:18] There was truly this period where they were like, his name's not Goofy anymore. His name is George Gief. And he's like fucking Ozzy and Harriet. Just like white picket fence dad. What period would this have been? 50s. Yeah, I'm seeing this. Sure. George Gief sucked.

[00:33:37] He kind of has like a bow tie and a suit. He's sort of a hapless. The 50s dad. I obviously watched a Goofy movie when I was a kid. I owned it, I think.

[00:33:48] Which I do remember being pretty good, but he is not funny in it because he's just like an exasperated single parent. Well, his son is like a skateboarder type. Yeah, he wants to be cool and be the rocker.

[00:34:03] I think what works well in that film is they take the character of Goofy as he exists in the public consciousness and use that as a projection of how embarrassed any teenage boy is of their father.

[00:34:13] But then I think I just watched that movie and I was like, I too would be embarrassed of this fucking guy. It is skin crawling. Exactly. It's hard to be cool when your dad is goofy. That's the tagline for a Goofy movie. And I can't disagree.

[00:34:27] I can't disagree. The opening of that movie, have you seen that film? A Goofy movie? No. The opening of that movie, the titles come up and they say Walt Disney Pictures presents. And then in very formal letters it says a movie.

[00:34:41] And you go, okay, I know what I'm watching here. And then John, you would not believe what happens next. Uh oh. A big splat of Goofy, the word goofy, splats onto it. Yeah, probably in a different font, right?

[00:34:54] It would be cool if the movie was just called a movie. I was excited. Oh, finally. Now look, I think what's happening here is we're talking around college because it's not that interesting. Listen, there was one thing that really made me laugh in college.

[00:35:10] And you will understand given the entire, everything that you know about my biography now, you will know that I really loved him getting up there going, here's my talk, The Curse of Athletics. Sure, right, right. It opens with that basically.

[00:35:23] Yeah, so he's just graduating from high school and he walks through the rain with his mother. No one likes him. He's a mama's boy. His suit shrinks in the rain. His suit shrinks because he's sitting next to the radiator. Yes. Because he's all wet from the rain.

[00:35:39] Oh, I didn't realize that's what happened. And then he gets up because he is the valedictorian. Right. And everyone else in the school loves sports because all normal humans love sports so much. And they give meaning and shape to humans' lives. And they're more important than anything else.

[00:35:58] Except Buster Keaton gets up and says, I'm going to give a speech on The Curse of Athletics. And I'm like, I am here for this. I know. I was so all, I was like, why do I have no positive memories of this one?

[00:36:09] This one's like blanked from my mind. This setup is so fucking good. Yeah. And I'm like, we're drilling down to the core of the thing, right? Right. And he's like, I do not understand the rules of masculinity in society. Right. Shit I could not relate to harder.

[00:36:25] And he's doing the fucking smooth criminal lean. The lean is so funny. This first ten minutes are good. Yeah, they are good. And they set up such a good dynamic. You have also the bit early where he gets rained on, right? You know, there's all that stuff.

[00:36:41] We were talking about the rain popping in the... He's got some umbrella business. Some umbrella. And then he's like, does this movie have his eye on the ball? Right. To use some sports analogy. Sure, sure. Sports. Wow. Athletic mind virus. Gotcha. He walks in with his mom, right?

[00:37:00] His suit's shrinking. You get it. This guy under the boot of luck. Should've shrunk more. Abandoned me and understand. Yeah, I just thought it was a bad suit. It wasn't clear that it shrunk.

[00:37:12] It wasn't bad, but part of its badness is that it reacts that poorly to the conditions around him. If you're wearing a full woolen suit, rat time. Come on. But he walks in. His sweetheart, his beloved. Right. What is the name of this character?

[00:37:29] Mary. And she's played by Anne Cornwall. It is my favorite thing about these movies. And I think modern movies should bring back not this one, but so many of them in the credits. The characters are just credited as a boy. His girl. His sweetheart. Her father.

[00:37:47] He does. Yeah. His name is Ronald. Yes, but a nerd name. He walks in. She's being chatted up by this. His romantic rival, right? This creep, this sort of blue blooded jock creep. Yeah. And she's very handsome guy, though.

[00:38:02] I have to say Harold Goodwin took him seven years to graduate high school. This guy's a fucking fool. Yeah. She seems disinterested by him. Yeah. Buster Keaton walks in looking a fool in a shrunken suit. And she's so excited to see him. Of course.

[00:38:17] And you're like, this is interesting. Okay. She's got the lady. She sees his value. And he gets up and gives this. You think I wasn't Mr. Popular with my fedora and my Doctor Who hat and my long hair? I was asked out on some dates after choir practice.

[00:38:33] Go on. Keep it in your pants, man. I'm just saying. I'm not trying to revise history. I'm trying to tell it. He gets up. He starts giving this monologue. And then she just turns out on him. What a betrayal. I agree.

[00:38:47] I'm sorry. Can you define what you liked about him previously and how that was a betrayal? How did this? How did you not see the curse of athletic speech not coming? Because so far, this guy, all of this seems in character with this guy as I've met him.

[00:38:58] You just can't say stuff like that. Okay. Especially on campuses. You can't. You can't say anything on campus anymore. Yeah, but she immediately turns on him. Disgusting. The line I butchered in the opening where she's just like.

[00:39:11] The whole audience turns on him, to be clear. It's not just her. No one is happy with his speech. In the world of the film. But I get that. But you're like, why is she not sticking with him?

[00:39:22] What changed in her? And then she's just like, fuck off until you understand what's good about sports. And here comes the second big betrayal. He decides to be into sports. He goes back on his speech. All those old men on stage shook his hand.

[00:39:36] The modern version of this movie. And I just kept watching it going like expecting this to happen. And then I was like, oh, it's 1928. They haven't developed this trope yet. Right.

[00:39:46] The modern version of this movie when he gets to college, he meets a nice girl who likes him for who he is. And he spends the whole movie pining over this asshole lady who told him become a jock or get or go bust. She's the red herring.

[00:39:58] He's not going to stick with that. So the person liked him for who he really was. Exactly right. And it's like this character is weirdly both of them at the same time. Right. She just changes her mind a lot.

[00:40:09] But then, yes, you go like, oh, OK, this is kind of like fun structure for like a bunch of buster shorts. Now he has to learn every sport. And then once it actually starts in practice, you're like, this is not that engaging.

[00:40:21] You just put him on a new field and he just does some new silly things. And the things are not silly enough. They're not quite the bits were just not robust enough. And for me to really be whatever.

[00:40:35] I mean, here's here's what I'm here's what I'm going to say. Yeah. Obviously, Buster Keaton is legendary for physical comedy. Mm hmm. Careful. Kid could take a kid could take a fall. We're not a campus, but you might get canceled for what you're saying.

[00:40:53] Some wild stuff so far, but OK. Right. Yeah. But. To me, that is that is the the the broad physical comedy, even though it was incredibly capable of it. Yes. That's the least of the appeal. The behavioral stuff. It's the it's the gentle lean on the stage.

[00:41:14] You know where it's very controlled body movement. It's the funniest thing. Yes. Whereas running time and time again to try to jump over a high jump and just not making the jump. Right. It's stupid. That's the problem.

[00:41:27] I think this setup just becomes like he'll get more laughs with a side eye. Yes. For me and humanity. Yes. Then trying to do a pole vault, not making the comedy ends that he's bad at this. Yeah. Right. There's no there's no story like no story or emotion.

[00:41:46] No, I think that is justifying any of this other than we established a premise, which is this guy can't play sports, but he feels like he has to. Right. Like, I think the the soda shop sequence is a bit of an uptick.

[00:41:58] Of course, it's the only other good scene in the film. It's so much more controlled because I mean, here's this other part of the film is he does not come from. I'm a big fan of flair soda jerking. Well, who isn't? Yeah. I mean, let's bring it back.

[00:42:12] A bit of business before I get my sarsaparilla. Yeah. Sure. I almost thought this the fucking senior soda jerk was Humphrey Bogart when he came on screen. I thought I know what you mean. I know what you mean. And also, yeah, yeah, yeah. Before Bogart becomes Bogart. Yeah.

[00:42:29] But, you know, he played all these sort of like blue blooded country club ass, but he wasn't he wasn't an adult. I know this guy looks already like he's in his third. I know. I'm saying at first first glance, I was like, is this 22 year old?

[00:42:40] But I will also say if I'm a Buster fan at the time. Yeah. And fucking like seven years into his career as a feature maker, basically, he's like, I'm going to college. I would have been like, well, Buster, this is the biggest thing. You're not you.

[00:42:52] You're too old for college. He looks, first of all, ancient in this film. Yes. He's only 32, but he looks like an old man. But talk about city miles. Also, also, this kid's jacked. This kid's incredible physical condition. That's the other reason you can't believe it when he's out.

[00:43:10] He's not he's not jacked. He's not like huge. He's got like a swimmer's. He's sinewy. Yes. He's also, I mean, he's definitely very capable. He's probably the most gifted physical human being on that field. Yeah. He probably would be good at athletics. That's true. Well, he's small.

[00:43:30] He's slight. He's a little. This is the thing that we're talking about. All he did in his downtime was play baseball. Yeah. And I can't remember if it was this movie or Sting about Bill Jr., but one of them got delayed.

[00:43:39] The production got delayed because he was playing baseball like the day before they were supposed to start filming. Yeah. And he was like, he loved baseball and his friends were like, he could have been a professional baseball player. I don't doubt it. Wow. He's too short.

[00:43:51] They have a whole spot for that kind of person on the baseball. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. The short stop. It's David. I know sports. Yeah. On the baseball pitch or whatever, they have a short stop area. Yeah. I was in the second basement. I don't know how much.

[00:44:10] I was a third baseman. That's a very tough position. I was a third baseman. I did. We caught up on a lot of things. No, no, I know. There was always that boy.

[00:44:24] I had a friend, George, in elementary school and he was that kid who would just hang with the moms, you know? Not even athletics, just in the playground, just generally. Yeah. I was very interested in sports movies. Can I get you anything?

[00:44:34] I'd make them describe the plots of R-rated films. We're all out here picking our, you know, which Power Ranger, you know, we all are in Georgia's, yeah, catching up with the moms. Yeah. But you were saying so did your dad. Surgery.

[00:44:46] No, that sequence is so good because it's more the. Buster is best is so good at setting up multiple points of tension and stakes, right? Of ways he can fail and how he can overcome it and all of this.

[00:45:01] And what we're talking about is like these sequences where it's just like here he is track and field. He's going to do it wrong. Right. And the stakes are he's trying to get good at this. Right. But it doesn't really feel like there's more surrounding. Right.

[00:45:17] And I don't think much of this woman who is so quick to discard him. I don't care that much about him impressing her. But like even just the soda jerk sequence, there is a it's a job. He's got a boss now who's testisking. Right.

[00:45:31] He's got to do this right. He doesn't want them to know he's working a job because everyone else in this film comes from money. He does not. He doesn't want to work his way through college.

[00:45:40] So he has to also hide when people he knows come into the soda shop. But but even just there's this there's a nuance to he's watching this flair soda jerk. Yeah. He wants to be like him. Yeah. But he knows he doesn't have that ability.

[00:45:57] And so he's trying to find the smallest scale tricks he can do. Yeah. It's funny. It's funny to see him work through it. Of course, the other job he gets is the worst part of this movie. Right.

[00:46:10] And what I think is so often like, you know, most of this movie's reputation is like this is the only film in which Buster does blackface. Yes. And which he himself wears blackface. There's some minor incidents of people wearing blackface in other movies. In supporting roles.

[00:46:24] But in which he wears blackface. And Navigator has the end sequence that's not good. No. Although right. But in the other films, they're pretty short sequences and they do not most of the time feel like they're short. They're also very racially pointed.

[00:46:36] You have the Sojourn sequence, which is fun. And you're like, well, this is a fun track of he needs to keep finding jobs and working jobs. I'm a little more into this than the athletics. Yeah. And then the second time they cut.

[00:46:47] And that sequence has this beautiful full circle thing where he at the end just takes the help wanted sign and puts it up himself and walks out. Right. And then like 10 minutes later, the movie just like irises in on sign wanted colored waiter. And you just go, Jesus.

[00:47:02] No, please. Yeah, right. Exactly. You're just sort of like biting like your tongue for the next 10 minutes waiting for this thing to end. So then when it goes back to the sports from there, it's a little bit of a respite.

[00:47:16] But I think we're talking around here in terms of the context of this movie and like, why is he doing a college comedy at 32? Right. Why does this feel so much less sort of like formally intelligent than the movies leading up to this?

[00:47:28] Is that the general was his big fucking blank check movie. And it bounces. Yes, it hadn't worked. Yes. He had to downside. The other thing and I'm cracking up with the dossier here is that college movies were hot. This is because college was hot.

[00:47:43] It was like the same thing. We're going to college all of us. That's right. This comedy genre he could have done. Subgenre is college comedy. You got you got, of course, Harold Lloyd's The Freshman.

[00:47:53] That's sort of the most famous college, which outgrossed all of Buster films by many multiples was so far and away the biggest of that era. Look, the campus flirt. I believe we that came up on a box office game. Yeah. Brown of Harvard. Yes. The quarterback. Yes.

[00:48:10] These are young college comedy young hodgeman at Yale. Right. Do you still have a scarf? Of course I do. OK. Yeah. Yeah. They let me keep it. I am timeless. I am ageless. I did start a silent a silent comedy in the late 20s.

[00:48:28] You talk about him looking ancient in this movie. And in the later MGM movies of just he looks defeated. Yeah, there was this energy to him of him being like, I guess I have to do this. Right.

[00:48:38] You know, and even though he's still doing silent comedy, he put his much heart and thought into the making of this film as he did to titling it. Yes. College. We'll call it college. I guess this is what they want. Right.

[00:48:55] And then like this movie has a big hit. Right. And then they're like, please, you just want this out of me. Yeah. Buster goes to college. Everyone's like, yes, that's exactly what we want. Buster goes to college. Some context here.

[00:49:10] A lot of his writers, the gag guys had moved on. Clyde Bruckman, I believe is specifically the character in the X-Files is specifically an homage to that guy. The name. Remember Clyde Bruckman from the X-Files? Peter Boyle. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:25] Peter Boyle, who was a big fan of Clyde in classic Buster style. Yeah. Froze them out, basically wrote this whole movie himself. Right. And also Harry Brand, who is Buster's publicist, was also brought in as a writer. And that made their relationship very tense.

[00:49:42] These are all basically, this is all sort of to say like the foundation of Buster's whole operation is sort of going away. Yes. Like this guy. The classic writers have all moved on because they've experienced success at this point. He's fucking up his relationship with his publicist.

[00:50:01] You know, it's all getting a little grim. Yes. And James Horn, James W. Horn, who they hire as the director to sit in the chair, like quote unquote director. Absolutely useless to me, Buster says.

[00:50:15] This is the most dismissive he is of any of the people who co-directed his pictures. Harold Goodwin, who plays Handsome Buster's rival, Jeff, also said that Jimmy Horn sucked and didn't do anything on set. And again, this is not a well-directed film. No. Compared to...

[00:50:40] No, it just, yeah, right. Because it doesn't have the sort of flow of his best films. It doesn't have flow, the shots have no real imagination. It just all feels very obligatory and sad. I kind of like the sequence. I mean, it's got stuff.

[00:50:55] It's got some stuff. I kind of like the sort of hip-hip-hooray sequence where they're throwing him up and it looks like he's a peepin' Tom through the window. And then he starts using the umbrella to try to explain himself.

[00:51:06] And they slow the film down because the umbrella works just like a parachute. That's got a little bit of the filmmaking ingenuity of him actually having fun while... Hundreds of children died trying to emulate that.

[00:51:15] By the way, that's a little thing I got in my dossier. Hundreds of children. It's nice to see Stitz again. I was going to say. It's always nice to see Stitz. This man, Stitz Edwards, who is the dean here. He plays the lawyer in Seven Chances. Yep.

[00:51:29] And what's the other... Battling Butler is the other one he's in? He is in Battling Butler as his manager or whatever. He's become our MVP of the Buster Repertory Company. He's just got a lot of face. He's got a lot of face.

[00:51:42] He's got an incredible face. And you introduced him as Dean Edwards, of course, former SNL cast member Dean Edwards. Yes, Dean Edwards. At this point, I'm sort of hooting and hollering of like, oh, great. We got Snitz in a prime position.

[00:51:55] And I think there's a little juice when he reenters. There's the scene where... I mean, his dynamic is more fun where he comes in and he's like, this place is fucking lousy with athletes. I want this to be a place of academia, of thought.

[00:52:09] And he thinks Buster or Ronald is going to come in and make this a slightly more intellectual school. He's against the athletic mind buyers. Right, right. And so he's disappointed that Ronald only wants to do the athletics.

[00:52:23] And then there's the scene where he finally calls him in kind of Rushmore style and goes, why are you failing out of every class? And he's like, because I'm signed up for every fucking team. And Snitz relates to him. He has this line about like, I understood.

[00:52:34] I want to be a selective bachelor and it's why I'm still single today. Right, because I was stubborn. Stubborn. Right. I was too stubborn, I guess, to choose a bride.

[00:52:42] I found that whole... I mean, he understands that Buster Keaton is heart sick and that's why he's doing this. And he's like, I want to set him up for success. I'm going to rig the row team, the rowing team. He's going to become a cockswain.

[00:52:56] He's small, it makes sense to me. Yes, a cockswain. A cockswain, right Ben? Yeah. Dumbass, dumbass cockswain, right Ben? Dumbass cockswain. What does he say? What does he do even? Just says row? Apparently steers the boat. No, the cockswain, you know, they motivate and they give specific instructions.

[00:53:17] They hold the stopwatch? No, they wear it. Oh, they wear it. Dumbass cockswain. Griff, what's your question? When he shows up, he gets... You got to have a megaphone attached to your head, you fucking dumbass cockswain. He gets the name wrong. Don't even get their own seat.

[00:53:35] When he shows up to the team, he says, I'm a... It's not, I'm a coaxial or something like that. That would be a little... It would be anachronistic. It would be anachronistic if he said I'm a coaxial. That's what I'm trying to remember what the word is, yeah.

[00:53:48] It's when he tries to identify himself to the team. But they of course, they try to give him a sleeping potion and knock him out to embarrass him. The coach roofies him. Roofies him. But the teacups get switched and like...

[00:54:04] This is right when Jeff is also like basically holding her hostage. This is the weirdest fucking dynamic. We're cutting between these two things that are happening. Right. He gets... He gets expelled. Jeff. Jeff gets expelled. He shows up to her dorm room, which is absolutely no men allowed.

[00:54:25] Off limits to men. Very uncool in the 1920s to be showing up in a woman's dorm. It's cool to just show up in the first place.

[00:54:31] But beyond that, he shows up, locks the door behind him, goes, I have been expelled and I refuse to leave this room until you also drop out of college. Right. He's like holding her hostage. Or they discover us and she will be expelled. Right.

[00:54:45] If he is seen there. Right. You're going down with me. Yes. This is the most convoluted cover up for what is obviously supposed to be sexual assault. But it's also, yes, a scene that is like upset. It's very upset.

[00:54:59] Like the energy of it is just like counteracting the comedy of the movie as we're cross cutting to like sleeping man. Right. And at no point is he aware, is Ronald aware that this is happening. Ronald calls himself the coaxer. I found it.

[00:55:15] I was trying to find it. The coaxer. It's kind of funny, but you know what? Oh, Axel's bad. I was hoping for more. Yeah, I was hoping for more. Sorry, you were saying? The whole, the whole sequence is between this boat race. Yes. That Ronald has to win.

[00:55:35] They're in this funny sounding boat. Right. Their hope is that he would pass out so that they could use the actual coxswain, but instead, because the other guys pass out, he has to do it. Right. Because they do a switch of the, there's a switch of the tea.

[00:55:48] One of the teas is spiked. Right. They have cups of tea and it's a switch that is so unimaginative. It's basically like, what is it? I think Buster Keaton accidentally dips his cookie in the other person's tea and then he's like, I guess I better switch these. Yes.

[00:56:03] And then he looks the wrong way. Like of all of the ways you're going to do a tea switcheroo in a comedy, this was the least. But all of this feels like it has this energy of like, is this what you want? Right.

[00:56:16] You know, there's this almost vague contempt for the audience. Absolutely. I felt really contempt. Right. I just spent fucking like a year trying to get like every Civil War uniform stitch perfect. Right. I gave you the most like technically impressive extended chase movie imaginable. Yeah.

[00:56:33] You just want me like. I drove a train off a bridge as it burned. Yes. You want me to just be a dumbass cockswing? But he just, yeah, he fucks up the rowing and they still win even though.

[00:56:46] Right. Well, the point is that I was going to say that I was thinking about is like there's this race that he's got to win. Right. And he's got to win it in order to win because I guess that's what sports is.

[00:56:56] You do have to win the race. Right. I don't like that. That the object of his affection is being held against her will in a dorm room. Yeah. Till long after the race is over. Right. This race is ostensibly to impress her.

[00:57:10] Now, in another version of the movie, like, you know, where as you were describing where Mary is two characters, one who's a jerk and one who's nice or whatever. Yes.

[00:57:19] And the nice one's being held hostage. Wouldn't it be more compelling if he knows that she's being held hostage or that she's in trouble and he's got to finish the race in order to get to her? Right. I mean, that's not a very good punch up.

[00:57:30] But instead they break that into two different things. He wins the race. She's being held hostage simultaneously. And she gets a phone call to him. She calls him. Right. And then and this is one of the easiest things in the world. Yeah.

[00:57:43] In 1927 was getting someone on the phone. Right. Immediate. Yeah. Wherever they might be. But this is a little satisfying. I happen to have memorized the number over at the over at the boathouse. Yes. I have a phone underneath my dolly. Well, there are only five numbers in town.

[00:58:00] That's true. Just try the operators and you connect me to the boat. Yeah. That's how it should be. We need to go back to that. What's just like a bunch of phones. And there's one lady. Whoever's closest. You're just like, hey, can I talk to the library?

[00:58:12] Yeah. Yeah. There's one phone there. Yeah. Yeah. Back to that. I'd like to meet a nice switchboard operator. Run for governor. That feels like I should run for governor. He's saying my. Oh, you should run for governor. Yeah. David's platform is fewer phones, more trains. Oh, sounds great.

[00:58:33] I think, you know what? I think you could be a big third party. Nobody likes their phone right now. No trains and trains are great. Very lovable. Yes. People are like terrified like these, these, these insane liberal politicians.

[00:58:46] They want to come to my house and take my gun out of my hand. Throw it away. Right. That's their biggest fear. I would vote for anyone who said, if you elect me, I will come to your door and take your phone out of your hand.

[00:58:58] You have my unwavering support. Smash it in front of you. How much am I legally allowed to donate to your campaign? Three thousand dollars. I will break your phone in front of you. You have to write a paper check and mail it to me.

[00:59:10] Yes. I would do that. You have to put a stamp on it. No, I wouldn't say it's funny, but this last sequence is a little bit. Where he like pole vaults in. Exciting where he finds out that she's being held hostage.

[00:59:19] He can do all of the things that he couldn't do before. It's just a little bit nice of like you've set up the whole movie. Now everything comes back into play. It is at least a more impressive display of his ability as a physical actor. Yeah.

[00:59:35] OK, but then we don't go ahead. No, you go ahead. Well, I'm going to say something about the last thing in the movie. So if you have anything before then. No, I don't have any.

[00:59:44] I would say that the original, the rowing skull that they're in is like old rock bottom or iron bottom. Old iron bottom. Because he jumps into the other one and which was actually an incredible shot of him jumping off the dock directly into that very narrow rowing boat.

[01:00:02] Yes. And then drops through the bottom of the boat. But that original boat was called the Damophino. Yeah. Which is the name of the boat in the boat. That's all.

[01:00:11] It's a big Damophino is a big running Buster sort of the Damophino Society is, I think, the name of the preeminent Buster Keaton fan club in America these days. Yeah. How I didn't get that printed out membership card into my leather satchel back in high school.

[01:00:29] I'll never know. No, he rescues her. Yes. Right. She's like, great. I'll marry you. Cut to them with kids. Cut to them old. Cut to their gravestones. The end.

[01:00:44] Kind of just felt like Buster didn't quite have an ending. He was like, I don't know. It's kind of funny. Just their gravestone. It's bizarre. It's kind of interesting.

[01:00:54] Now, what would be cool is if he actually predicted the future, right? Like if we cut to like them old, like watching JFK's assassination and like, Jesus, God, this country is really going to hell. Slow down and really go five years at a time and really call everything.

[01:01:07] Yeah, the reverse of the opening of Up. Like them in the 70s being like, this country is a shithole. You know, like they've gotten really conservative in their old age. Complaining about Charlie Chaplin's later films being maudlin.

[01:01:20] Yeah. It's actually set at Kent State and they're rooting for the National Guard. Another college film. You know, Sherlock Jr. has the joke where he sees in the movie like they have babies and he's like, what?

[01:01:37] And Three Ages has the joke where at the end it's seeing how the three relationships end and it's like they have a million kids. They have five kids. They have a dog. He likes the ending that is do they end up with some.

[01:01:50] It's just really on the nose. That's what happens when you get married. I'm like, yeah, I get the idea that they're going to have kids and grow old together. And they die. Yeah.

[01:01:59] And none of the sequences are particularly them living in happiness. They just happen to be in the same movie. They're like five seconds long. Just fading. Right. It was a very appropriately grim ending. Where are you going with this? And it's like, oh, into the ground.

[01:02:14] Straight into the ground. Yeah. It's his worst feature. I do think it's the yes. In a short, it would have been more forgivable, but probably not. Absolutely. It's also the one movie that like from top to bottom feels of its time.

[01:02:30] Let me give you just a little more context in a negative way. Yeah. What? No beans. So there's this whole thing where, as I said, he has, you know, Harry Brand, which is like Buster and Skanks publicity guy. Sure. And, you know, why don't you have him right?

[01:02:50] And so then Brand apparently insisted on a credit. It doesn't tell Buster about it. Buster sees the movie projected to an audience for the first time. And it says written by blah, directed by blah, a separate title supervised by Harry Brand.

[01:03:05] And Buster basically is like, they put this in the prints after I okayed them. You know what I mean? Like they fucked me on this. Gink did it. And the prints were out. There was nothing he could do.

[01:03:17] Like there was like they'd already been distributed around the country. And he was so mad about it. So again, a lot of bad feelings. Um, you know, festering in terms of like this movie's production. Like there's, yeah, there's less fun stuff because he's not doing crazy stunts.

[01:03:34] In the same way as the general or whatever. It's not like breaking his neck. Most of the history of this movie is just he needed a safe hit again. He needed to make a smaller, simpler movie that was giving what he thought the public wanted.

[01:03:45] Um, I've been digging into the tag lines. Ben just sent me no beans on Urban Dictionary. When you have a lack of beans. Hey bro, you got some beans? Sorry, no beans. No, sorry, no beans. Okay. So that's apparently the same thing. Urban Dictionary definition.

[01:04:00] Literally it's you want beans and someone doesn't have them. And you're like, what? No, no beans. And that was submitted by Lean With It on July 10th, 2017. Now here's what's interesting. Also submitted under no beans by Caroline Yixie on April 17th, 2018.

[01:04:16] A year later is no beans when you have so many beans. Well, that's, that's confusing. Can you give me an example? Yeah. Here's an example. Bro, I have no beans. Bro, I have no beans.

[01:04:26] Whoa, whoa. Holy. Just so everyone understands Griffin just pulled out 500 cans of beans out of his leather satchel. No, no. Here's the best one on Urban Dictionary. Not me with beans. Just beans. That feel when you have beans.

[01:04:46] Send comedy points to both of you. Um, this entry is just beans. Okay. And in definition it says beans. Cut this right off. This was going to pay out so big and you have, well now I need to reset it.

[01:04:57] Yeah, reset it. How far back should we go back? The Urban Dictionary entry is beans. Sure. Okay. The definition is beans. Okay. And the sample sentence is beans. Wow. He made me reset for that. That was funny. You got laughs in the room.

[01:05:14] I did a search for what no beans. Jason Momoa in Fast X. How can you tell me that was bad? People were laughing.

[01:05:22] I did a search for what no beans and I got something from search.proquest and an academic article called what no beans images of women and sexuality in burlesque comedy. So there might be something in there.

[01:05:38] But the only other hint, the only other hit that I got was someone's blog about this movie. Yeah. No one has ever figured out what no beans means.

[01:05:49] Look, I mean there's a Twitter account called Good Bean Jokes that apparently, you know, has some great bean jokes if you want to find that. I've been Googling around as well, but no, I don't have anything more for you. Okay, look, a couple things.

[01:06:01] College not very well reviewed. Did do financially successful. But not a hit on the level of say the freshman. Sure. It did good. I wanted to shout out Madam Sultay One. I was going to mention Madam Sultay One.

[01:06:17] When Buster is in blackface, he's with a black actress who is playing a cook. In the kitchen.

[01:06:24] In the kitchen, which obviously just makes the whole fucking blackface thing all the stranger as it always does whenever you watch any old movie that has blackface in it where there are also black performers. He looks like an alien.

[01:06:33] And she is saying things to him and there is an interaction going on that is mysterious because you can't. They're not talking. She's the first African-American actress to sign a film contract and be a featured performer. She was in movies for 50 years.

[01:06:49] She's in The Birth of a Nation. She's in Intolerance. She's in the Black Filmmaker Hall of Fame. She's just interesting if you look her up. That's a stage name she gave herself. It was not actually she was not born Madam Sultay One. Her name is Nellie Crawford.

[01:07:04] She gave herself that name, I think based on it's a character she had played in an old movie. And it meant that she could play any ethnicity essentially because she had a non-white other. She was putting this exotic quote unquote name. Yeah.

[01:07:21] I found her life to be very interesting. Yes, you can read about her. May I say? You know, I've been looking up what the taglines were for these movies to see if I could use them in the openings and they rarely work.

[01:07:33] But I want to read the three for these ones because for this film college because I think they're good. You'll graduate with a perpetual smile is one tagline second tagline. Sounds like a curse. Technically it should be you will be graduated with a perpetual smile. I'm just saying.

[01:07:52] Could have used a copy editor. It's silent, but Buster Keaton makes college a scream. I think this is the best tagline for the movie. Well, the other two were bad. And this is the best one. Hey. Hey, that's it. Just two haze with exclamation point.

[01:08:12] That's extra pretty good. Hey, hey, what could be like a crusty thing? Like, hey, hey, could be look. It's in the eye of the beholder. Let's play the box office game. Okay, we're talking August 1927 baby number one at the box office. This film is opening number seven.

[01:08:27] Okay, not enough number seven fifty four thousand dollars. But number one at the box office. Oh, it's a comedy directed by William Kraft. Oh boy. I have no thought information about this movie called what some beer. I can tell you that. I don't know anything.

[01:08:48] It's called it stars Glenn Tyron and Patsy Ruth Miller and it's called painting the town painting the town painting the town. Hey, what do you think of that? Hey, hey, no, you know, it's not a doesn't that's not the tagline. All right, number two.

[01:09:03] Okay, the drama starring the legendary John Gilbert who's come off on many of these. Yeah, it's kind of the king of the box office. You've also got a very the is it called the drapes of London? It's not called the drapes of London a very specific guess.

[01:09:18] Is it called London's drapes? No, it's not called that either. It's called is it called a three in London town?

[01:09:23] No, it's that no, it's John Gilbert and a very young Joan Crawford interesting in a silent drama about a bootlegger who gets a society girl involved in his activities and they fall in love. The movie is called whiskey town 12 miles out.

[01:09:44] Well, miles Jack Conway film number three at the box office. It's a comedy called. I'm just gonna is it called dumbass Cox Wayne? That's not what it's called. It's directed by the Cox Wayne. It's directed by Richard Wallace. Okay, this one's boring.

[01:10:01] You guys can say some more funny names. No, no stars. Jack Mulhall. Oh, it's a mole Charles Murray. Wow, who looks like a real real fun guy. This guy. I think it's called like a priest who's mad at me. It's called a glass for my best gal.

[01:10:16] It's called it's got a pretty good name. The poor nut. The porn nut poor the poor nut the poor nut, you know like that the porn the poor not. I have no one for you on this movie. There's no plot description.

[01:10:32] All right number four is a King Vidor epic from two years ago. Wow, it has been in the box office for a hundred weeks starring John Gilbert. Starring John Gilbert. I think we actually have had this on a previous box office game is it the original Ten Commandments?

[01:10:47] No, no, it's a war film a World War one film starring John Gilbert. Okay, and you don't probably don't remember the title because it's kind of a boring title. It's from director King Vidor. Its name is the big parade. Okay, remember we had this one before.

[01:11:02] Yeah, what country is he ruler of? Why does he have to be the ruler? Well, he's King. He was the king of the box office. King Vidor was the king of cinema. Of course, what was King Vidor's actual name? There's no way his name was King right?

[01:11:18] Good joke man five comedy points. Whoa his name was King. Good for him. Yeah, you have a baby and you're like my friend my friend Amy Fusselman who is a novelist. She has a book out right now called The Means her first son is named King. Really?

[01:11:35] Yeah, it was big. M-A-T-T. Steamboat Bill Jr. your favorite. Yes, just the final film of the box office Griffin is a young Hodgeman at Yale is a historical drama starring Dorothy Gish and its name is Madame Pompadour. Okay. Oh, sorry.

[01:12:02] Sorry if that doesn't know that I've heard of that film. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's I mean it rings a bell. Sure. I think it's a real person. It's like Louis the something one of the Louis. Maybe that's what I remember. All right, all right.

[01:12:17] Steamboat Bill Jr. he goes out and says Buster Keaton productions run on a high note movie that feels like he's putting it all back in. He is going for a more famous one. Yeah, and he is right. He's putting himself in risk again. It feels like physically.

[01:12:32] Well, yeah. Yes. Yeah. And he's doing the most iconic gag ever, which is the house the side of the house falling at him somehow perfectly landing in the window. And so unaffected on damage. Well, and it's not just that he runs to his Mark and then it falls.

[01:12:52] Yes, so it's not like he's preset there right and this incredible he's not looking he's not glancing. He looks oblivious and yet if you were an inch off his Mark, he would die. He would be crushed instantly and you're watching a big wide master.

[01:13:07] And what I heard is that they had to take 35 takes and he died the first guy before. Yeah, yeah, right. An early an early fan of cloning. Yes, yeah, right. He prestiged this one.

[01:13:21] There is this kind of apocryphal sort of narrative that I think was pushed along a lot by Buster's ex-wife.

[01:13:30] That he was his his widow the woman that he ended his life with the younger woman that he married who became I think this is a what's her name Norma Thomas his ex-wife at that moment who he had to was an acrimonious acrimonious long term divorce.

[01:13:48] So she wasn't saying nice things about him. She was not bad things about him and there are a lot of quotes tribute to her that have like perpetuated the narrative that he was so depressed at this point in his life.

[01:13:58] That part of this whole the end of this film that stunt all of that people saying hey do you realize the margin for error is really really narrow on this if you're off by an inch you die was him being like then I die right that there was this belief that has now existed that he was borderline suicidal making this film, which I don't think is true.

[01:14:19] It's amazing like that. He's almost trying. He's like well if this guy happens that what a way to go if this time is having himself into space vibe. That has become a lot of this movie's legacy weird if the wall fall gag had happened in college.

[01:14:35] I would believe you because he looks genuinely suicidal throughout the rat film right but in this film he seems at the top of his game and the film is full of.

[01:14:47] I don't even know how to put it like I don't wanna say full of life is a cliche but it's just like it's it's alive this movie is so alive it's alive and there's this and so creative and so human and so funny there's a real emotion doesn't feel like to it as well.

[01:15:02] I mean he's playing a real character yes what a character though right what a great what a good this guy's a real cut up I'll tell you with that with the beret and the ukulele mustache and the incredibly wide pants. Yeah I mean no way to get there.

[01:15:19] No I was going to talk about I was going to interrupt this bit just talk about his suicidal you know sure he was an alcoholic obviously which is a recurring problem for him especially later you know but this is really starting to start.

[01:15:33] Yeah he had this disastrous marriage that was costing him money and obviously just causing him anguish in general there's things that would have been.

[01:15:44] Yes we're doing this well right and I he sees this is probably into the road of this era of my career I have to make a move after this so same GM right after this so it's easy enough to sort of then extrapolate to like well that's why he's a little more reckless or a little more daring but like.

[01:16:03] It's then then you have to do like eight more steps to be like and you know honestly he was kind of trying to drop a house on his head you know that's a little right.

[01:16:10] But I wouldn't do what but I do think that there is a there is a psychological mystery yes as to how you go from college to this movie right right like it was this going to be the one last big creative swing before he had already decided he was going to.

[01:16:28] Well I can tell how I'm obviously the other thing with Keaton of course is when he's asked about these things like you know I just wanted a good gag for the good picture you know it's a he's not just like yeah I was really fucked up.

[01:16:40] OK here's some here's some context for steamboat bill junior originally called the long lost son OK Chuck Reisner much better title. Yes Steve of Bill junior is just a joke right it's just it's just a pun about a song bill is the.

[01:17:00] That song which is still some apples and whistle by by Mickey right because we erroneously said and it's often repeated that steamboat Willie the first Mickey short is riffing off of this but they're both in fact they're both riffing off the song.

[01:17:14] Right right which is very popular existing song. Yes I think the steamboat bill junior is a fine title it's fine the long lost son feels a little banal to me I was making yeah and the junior is good. Yeah. Part of the brain part of the brain.

[01:17:29] A good buster junior.

[01:17:31] All right so Chuck Reisner former vault vaudeville guy who worked with chaplain worked with Sid chaplain he had a story that he pitched a buster about an old steamboat captain reuniting with his long lost son right you know and that's what it'll be about right.

[01:17:49] You got the grizzled captain silly son. Yes right. His dandy his idea is right. I show up I have a beret I'm wearing plus fours I have a ukulele under my arm and a quote unquote my god baseball.

[01:18:02] Now put yourself put yourself in the mind of young John Hodgman. Oh you're losing Coolidge Corner movie theater when he's revealed because he's standing on the other side of the train platform the train pulls away and he turns around he's got that little pencil mustache.

[01:18:17] Oh I made me I've never felt more seen in my life. For you this was like seeing James Dean in Rebel Without a Cause. This is the coolest guy in the history of movies.

[01:18:25] I mean I'm not unselfaware I was laughing at what a dopey what a dope like it's such an incredible character reveal you know everything you need to know about him in that one moment.

[01:18:36] And I watched this movie last night with a person who lives in our house he's 21 years old and she laughed hard when she saw him. It is just undeniable. What did you want.

[01:18:46] Well I mean two things one apparently the mustache she's wearing was jokingly at that time called a baseball mustache. The joke being there are nine hairs on each side like innings in a baseball game or you know whatever baseball players. Yeah Ben plus fours right.

[01:19:00] Those kind of pants they're like shorts plus four inches right. Yeah. Big baggy pants. Tintin famously wears plus fours. OK. We bring them back. Yeah they are. They're kind of back. J.Crew did last season. They really big pants. Really. Yeah. Big pants are back.

[01:19:17] But big big billowy pants that come up a little short. It's the balance of both. Right. I don't believe that I'm going to reveal this but I am. OK. Around the time that I would have seen this movie.

[01:19:30] In the in it was early days of rap music making its way to Brookline Massachusetts. Around this time I wrote my only rap lyric. OK. And this is a couplet. I wear white gloves like Bullwinkle moose. I feel better when my pants are loose. Wow.

[01:19:50] I'm a big fan of big pants. Look you just send a text message to Ben if you want to cut that right out. Totally fine. No no I want it out there. I had to audition. I'm going to have to create a beat to go along with it.

[01:20:01] Maybe one of your listeners will do it for me. I had to. I had to. I was forced at gunpoint to audition for Nick Cannon's Wild and Out. Yes. At one point. Wild and Out. Was one at one of the reboots.

[01:20:14] And part of it was you had to do a rap in the audition. This was for Nick Cannon in the room. Sure. And all I ever came up with was I decided my persona was MC cardigan. I love it. You know I'm a fan of.

[01:20:28] I thought it was an OK starting point. Was that all you had though. No here's what I had. I had I'm MC cardigan. Were you here to say something. I'm in your yard again. OK. OK. I thought that was bad. Not bad.

[01:20:44] I feel like outside of the Northeast. Yeah. The Bard reference might not score. No. It's kind of a you know right. But like I like it. Oh Ben sending me giant fit Chino pants. Yeah. Currently on Jake Carreaux. But they're not plus fours. No. I'll be clear.

[01:21:05] This is their crop. Yeah. It's giant fit hyphenated like this is not cowboy fit. I'm not on this text. I'll send it to you. OK. So yeah. So Reisner has this pitch and you know the film was quite expensive.

[01:21:20] This film cost 300 330 grand which is about as much as the general. So that's a problem. Obviously apparently this was a general problem with comedies.

[01:21:30] They were much more expensive to make than dramas I guess just because of the amount of time it took to work all the gags up and all that. Maybe when you simulate a hurricane in a town that you have. Well these dramas have battle scenes and stuff.

[01:21:43] Not without. Maybe maybe when I when a whole building flies away revealing a man in a hospital bed. I mean the last 15 minutes of this movie feel like this might be the last time. It has been setting these links to our text thread with Marie.

[01:21:58] Marie is just getting these links right. Here's here's our group text. It's just Ben Hosley links to no beans urban dictionary. Ben Hosley giant fit Chino pant for men J. Crew and then Marie Barty. I have so many questions. She'll find out. She'll find out. OK. So yeah.

[01:22:21] Those are big. Those are big pants. Giant fit. I like these big pants. The last 15 minutes feel like him going. I'm going to make this as if this is the last chance I ever get to make something. I'm throwing. They shot it all on the.

[01:22:37] It doesn't feel desperate. No not at all. No it's like so much work but it all feels effortless. Yeah they shot on the Sacramento River to double as the Mississippi the mighty Mississippi. And they built like a whole street front. They built piers right.

[01:22:53] You know the whole thing costs like 50 grand. Hundred and fifty people are working on it because then they have to fucking flood it. You know like it's like all this crazy stuff is going on.

[01:23:01] It's the kind of thing that anyone else would have done with miniatures but for him it's like the whole point is me coexisting in these spaces moving through them.

[01:23:09] And they had more plans for like dramatic flood sequences that were stopped because there was a terrible flood of the actual Mississippi River that caused loss of life. Sure. And Buster was essentially told like you can't do too many flood jokes like that's that's too touchy. Right.

[01:23:28] People don't want to do things. Yeah. And so that's why they then shift over to Cyclone. We only actually got clear to make flood jokes two years ago actually. Right. OK.

[01:23:40] You know so that is when they start to think about OK well what are some like tornado gags we can do right Buster's like all while swinging gin. I don't know. Drop a house on me. Right. And yes so you know they had these wind machines and all.

[01:23:56] I don't know this whole thing just sounds incredibly complicated and difficult in 1928. Yeah. He's like trying to run against the wind and he's like jumping up in the air and it's like he's truly flying and I made later points he's literally getting rigged by right wires.

[01:24:13] But yes here's the other thing. I mean look at this image to where he's like leaning in all the way where the force of the right is so great it's bananas. Yes.

[01:24:24] In college there is a movie college or when you were in college when you were in college. Thanks for clarifying. Thank you for clarifying. Dear old Clayton. In college the gag where he is pole vaulting. Yeah.

[01:24:40] Is infamously one of the only gags where he ever used a stunt double in his entire career or at least in his full body age. When it goes over the thing and then lands head first into the crack thing into the hole.

[01:24:54] And I think it was a pile of sawdust they're all falling into. I think it was you know he had had some injuries at this point and it was like this like maybe I don't need to do this one.

[01:25:03] Maybe I can let someone else do this one right. Maybe this one is not important for me to show my face versus the house gag which has less room for error and much greater risks if it goes wrong. Yeah.

[01:25:17] I think that's where I push back on the notion that he was suicidal making this movie of like. He's looking too hard to be suicidal. Exactly. And it's like college is him being like I'm not willing to die for this fucking gag. It doesn't matter versus this.

[01:25:30] He's like if I get it on film this will validate my life. It's it look it's this romantic nonsensical concept of like I'm going to go out without paying you know like I'm going to make the biggest movie ever and then the last scene I'll die.

[01:25:44] It's like his passion is back. Yeah he's invested in making a really good movie. And for him the stakes are I need to be pushing it that far not I and if I die it's pretty good footage. It's like right. People want to see that.

[01:25:58] I mean it wasn't the last thing they shot I presume the house falling down. No I don't think it could have been. Yeah. He wanted to live to shoot the rest of the movie presumably. Is there other set up David. No no talk about the movie.

[01:26:09] Talk about the movie. I mean all of the stuff in the dossier is mostly just like fucking insane you know. We'll get that one. Exactly. I think his father in this film is so good. Yes. And for how much the father relationship is so big in Buster's life.

[01:26:23] Right. Right. And this is not I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. He had a father. He did. OK. Interesting. Father was also a performer failed performer. The son very quickly outshines. The guy playing the dad in this Ernest Torrance. Ernest Torrance. Fucking good. Huge. Very imposing.

[01:26:41] And when you see his the thing that made me. Fucking gasp. Yeah. Is the scene where he's walking around in his nightshirt and you see his feet. Yes. Those things are like seal flippers. Yes. This thing is as long as this desk that I'm sitting at. Yes.

[01:26:57] Guys hugely proportioned Scottish man I believe. This guy was the first man ever to play Captain Hook on film. Yeah there's a first adaptation. It looks pretty terrifying. Yeah. He's a scary looking fellow. That guy waving a hook at me.

[01:27:11] But this is the kind of guy who usually chases Buster in a movie. Right. Right. Or tries to steal Buster's best gal away from him his sweetheart or whatever. Like a Jeff type. Yeah. Yeah. But like a relationship with a dad is not really something he's done before.

[01:27:25] He'll have parents in movies. And you have the disapproving thing but it's not a major. Son you need to go do this. Right. It's really all they usually do. They just set the plot in motion. Right. Right. To really go like.

[01:27:37] This is the thing of Buster not being the traditional man in this modern society. Right. He's not traditionally masculine. He does not get it. Right. He needs to be toughened up. He needs to learn these things. He needs to learn a proper.

[01:27:49] He needs a very certain kind of hat. Right. Yeah. Right. That is not that beret. This is the movie where like all of that energy is put into the father. Yeah. Who is never really like an asshole to him. No. As much as he's just like disappointed.

[01:28:04] Doesn't understand him. Doesn't get him. Doesn't get him. He's not going to abandon him. No. But does not understand him. And Buster wants to really prove himself. Does he though? I mean here's the thing that I like about this movie. He wants his father's love. I would say.

[01:28:21] I guess I mean I guess you could make an argument that that's a human thing. To want love. I think that I think that Buster Keaton's I think his character Willie. Yes.

[01:28:32] You know first of all he is waltzing in directly from the movie that college should have been. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Billy boy with a beret and a ukulele. This is one of them baseball mustache. Classic kid who has gone to college. Yes.

[01:28:46] And has and has remade himself. Come back unbearable. Exactly. It's like such a perfect thing. He's been there for a semester and you're like oh Jesus. And they don't even recognize him.

[01:28:57] And for that reason I kind of feel like he is unbearable at the beginning of this movie. Not in a way that ever tests your affection for him. But you know like he's here to his mother wanted him to visit. Yes.

[01:29:06] Like he's not there to reconnect with his dad. He was told to go. And he traveled from Boston to go see his dad on an errand. And he's he's in it but it's not he doesn't want to be a part of this world.

[01:29:17] He's much more interested in in the in the in the girl for his college. That's it. No you're you are right. That's what Keaton is. That's what keeps him around. And the stakes are higher for the father who's now got this rival. Right. The king. Right.

[01:29:35] And as much as and this is the other things like yeah. And you know the father a completely different kind of man. Yes. Obviously is not an insider though. You know I mean. Yes. He's a he's an underdog too. Yes.

[01:29:51] He's literally being outclassed by a guy named King. Yes. Who's it was a much more blue blooded. A.T.T. Great callback. But yes you start the movie basically with the father as the protagonist.

[01:30:04] Here I am I'm going to be knocked out of business by this this asshole. This asshole swell. Well sons aren't sons supposed to help their fathers. Right. Aren't they supposed to carry on the tradition. I need another hand on the ship. He's going to come visit me.

[01:30:20] This will be perfect. Here comes this twerp. Right. And here comes this twerp.

[01:30:25] The only reason I push back on you is that I feel that one of the beauties of the movie is it takes time for Buster Keaton's character to determine I do want to earn my father's love. Sure. For a long time he's just along for the ride. Yes.

[01:30:44] And we'll get to the scene where I feel like that happens. But it's the fact that that happens makes this such a much more powerful film. They grow to get to care about each other. Absolutely.

[01:30:53] He he writes this letter saying I'll be wearing a white carnation you can't miss me. Right. Right. Then you have the father and his partner just looking for anyone everyone they're hoping.

[01:31:04] And really a more smy looking motherfucker than that little guy who wanders around with that Captain Hook. Yes. And then you get that amazing reveals he says the train pulls away and he's facing the opposite direction. Right.

[01:31:16] And they're sort of tailing behind him terrified like they're almost looking for confirmation. Is it anyone else. Does it have to be this kid. There's a sequence before that though where Buster Keaton has lost the carnation.

[01:31:29] The wind blows it away and he's just terrorizing people the train station by wandering up to them deadpan and just like shoving his lapel in their faces. It makes me laugh every time like you see this don't you. He doesn't know that he doesn't have the flower.

[01:31:43] It's great. Right. But yes then they see his name on his luggage. Yes. And then they follow him around. But they also they witness him taking out his old ukulele and serenading a baby while dancing around which to them is like mortifying. Absolutely. Right.

[01:32:02] This is the moment where they just go like what the fuck are we going to do. What are we witnessing. And it is a very foolish act. But what I like about it is it speaks to his innate kindness. Yeah.

[01:32:15] He's doing something that is silly and embarrassing but it is not stupid. No no it's whimsical and cute. Yes it's not. No it's not the kind of thing that's going to get your boat working. I'll say that. But you're right he's not like an imbecile.

[01:32:33] He's just a silly precious boy. Yes. And of course the dad's solution is well let's get you right to the barber and get the fucking thing off your face. Right. Which Joe Keaton his real father plays the barber. Yes. Oh I didn't know that. It makes more sense.

[01:32:50] Take that barnacle off his lip is the line. Right. But they shave him off and then they do the tweezer to remove what I guess is the ninth man on the field. I watched this. What's his name. Sorry.

[01:33:04] He's one of the co-in media versions of the films and Carl Davis did scores for those versions and his score for this one in particular is phenomenal. Sure. It uses elements of the real steamboat Bill song. It has a lot of great original melodies.

[01:33:27] But the other thing I like is into the orchestration it's a proper full orchestra doing this score. He works in a lot of the fun sort of musical sound effects of the shaving. Yes. Yes. And in a later sequence I will I will get to in a second.

[01:33:40] I wanted to call that out. Now his scores are available on I do a lot of sound effects for shaving scenes. I do a lot of 80 yards your side. Yes they're looking for the outfit to toughen him up. Yes. So every hat on him right.

[01:33:56] All the ads you have this other magnificent sequence that hat sequences to me and it just speaks to he could make comedy out of nothing. What's the gag. They're not even funny hats. They're the worst version of that. Yes would be increasingly funny hats. The hats themselves.

[01:34:12] The hats themselves are just normal hat. Right. But everyone Buster Keaton is making into a joke. He's he's vain. Yes. He's self-impressed. He's got style and taste of his own. Yes. He goes into these weird poses when he gets the Buster Keaton hat.

[01:34:28] He's immediately get that the fuck away from me. It is incredible. It's him acknowledging how humongous the Buster Keaton persona had become. Right. That he needs to like admit he needs to get the audience on board with I'm playing a character in this one. Right.

[01:34:43] Don't hold on too much to the past people I've played. The old boater guy. Right. I'm going to fucking throw the pork pie. He looks to the audience and is like let's don't talk about that. Right. Let's not even let them know I put that one.

[01:34:55] It's so and it's so swift and skill and subtle and you know not not to disparage the amount of physical danger he puts himself in the last quarter of this film or whatever. But this is the funniest as it gets as far as I'm concerned.

[01:35:09] I mean it gets as funny throughout the film but it's like the comedy here is happening through nostril work. True. You know what I mean? Yes. It's just beautiful. Yes. Very pretty too. You know he just has those striking eyes. Right.

[01:35:24] He looks 10 years younger in this one than he does in college. Absolutely. It's the difference of him having like joy. Yeah I think I think that might be too. I think so. Yes. I had a lot of procedures done. Yeah he was fucking addicted to Botox. Yeah.

[01:35:38] At that time but it wasn't the Jim Broadbent. It wasn't Botox at that time. You just you would just inject wood alcohol and bitters. Your skin would just brine. They pickle you. Yeah. It was just patent medicines all the way down. Yeah. Yeah exactly. Sarsaparilla and birch beer.

[01:35:55] You also he reconnects with his with his his crush at the barber shop. Okay and what is the name of this character? Not Mary. His crush in this movie of course is called Kitty. Kitty. Right. And her name is the actress's name is Marion Byron. Marion Byron.

[01:36:12] She is terrific. She was at one point in her life after this movie teamed with Anita Garvin another actress to form a female Laurel and Hardy. Okay. Didn't work. They just did three shorts and it never took off. She had more of a comedy background.

[01:36:27] The most misleading lady. She was known as a. I believe she was like. She had the nickname Peanuts. Her name was Peanuts. She was 16 when they filmed this movie which is pretty wild. That is crazy. I'd rather be nicknamed Peanuts than poor nuts. That is true.

[01:36:43] Yes she's tiny that's why they called her Peanuts. And she's 16 you're telling me. And she's 16 years old. Yes. But it's wild because Buster looks 10 years younger in this and she plays older than she is. You'd guess that both of them were 24. They seem very well matched.

[01:36:59] And they're like 16 and 33. Yeah. He seems younger. All right. So he's in the. Okay. He's on the he's in the naval uniform now. But this is you're right. This is what gets him invested. Right. Is oh she's also here. Right. Back from college. So he's having this rivalry.

[01:37:21] The dad puts the thing together having them be star crossed lovers rather than him needing to fight a romantic rival is a fun flip on the formula. Right.

[01:37:30] And so his father is occupying more of the role of what is usually the big tough guy who's trying to steal the girl away from him. Right. But from a sympathetic point of view. Right. The father's got a lot at stake. He needs to make this work.

[01:37:44] He doesn't want to be put out of business. And he doesn't want his son getting involved with the daughter of his rival. It is the only thing he wants to do. It is the number one thing he wants to do.

[01:37:51] I had said I think in our Dana episode that I ranked this one lower on my my personal buster ranking which is absurd. But I think also I had not rewatched this one in a while and I had not rewatched The Navigator in a while.

[01:38:03] And I conflated them a lot in my mind. Both films. Boat bits. Right. But Navigator is much more boat bits. It's what are the bits that come out of being on a boat. They're on this vehicle. There's the two of them as well.

[01:38:15] It's not like they're working a boat. It's just like these two idiots are on a boat. Right. This movie is much more he wants to fulfill the role of a proper boatsman in terms of dress and demeanor and all. Yeah.

[01:38:28] He doesn't want to be a dumb ass cockswain. He wants to be a proper boatsman. But outside of that his main objective is get off this fucking boat get onto her boat. He just wants to talk to her a bunch. And he doesn't pick that outfit out.

[01:38:38] They pick it out together. Yes. Like that's so beautiful. And as much like the hat bit where it's like the comedy is coming out of him positioning the hat 10 degrees in the wrong way. Right.

[01:38:50] That moment when he's walking up on the deck of the boat and all he's trying to do is just wear his nice little double breasted captain uniform with his little hat and just walk straight on the boat.

[01:39:00] And he he fucks up every element of walking in a straight line. Right. He like walks into the pulley. He almost walks over the edge. And he's just trying to maintain the air of confidence of I know how to be here. That's that that that seaman swagger. Yes.

[01:39:16] You know what I'm talking about Ben? Oh sure. I mean he's looking sharp. Yeah. He looks good. He looks really good. Yeah. And it's so funny.

[01:39:28] And the other thing that the 21 year old who lives in my house sometimes really laughed at was when he comes down and first when the reveal of the naval uniform and then Smee just handing a gun to the father saying no jury in the world would convict you.

[01:39:38] Pretty much always a good joke in my opinion. Yes. Murder is now legal. The idea of a jury being like uh huh. And you say he was annoying. Uh huh. Free to go. Absolutely. Just makes me laugh. Fair enough. OK what happens next on Steamboat Bill Jr.

[01:39:57] He tells her basically she gets the note to him saying I will I will be on the deck of my ship. Right. So he's got a he's got a sneak over there. Right. And the whole storyline is so simple and isn't like crazy boat bitch shit.

[01:40:08] It's just set up right. Right. Buster's been lying in bed all night eating peanuts. Another dang peanut shells all around the bed which you think is just kind of an errant detail to make his dad angry. Right.

[01:40:22] But instead they end up being this incredible runner of any time anyone is trying to enter or leave the room they keep forgetting there are these fucking shells all over the place. Yes.

[01:40:32] And then at the end of the score he he does instrumentation of the shell noise over and over again which is really he does crunchy nuts David. Which is really fun. But all he wants to do is sneak out. Right.

[01:40:45] His father wants to make sure he's not sneaking out because this is this is my my my rival's daughter. Right. You star-crossed lovers can never get together. And he's fully dressed underneath it in his captain's uniform. Taking off the big nightgown to reveal his entire uniform is funny.

[01:41:00] Big nightgowns are funny. Big nightgowns that go down to the floor are funny. But he can't get out easily because of the because of the nut shells. The father finds him he makes him go into the like wardrobe.

[01:41:11] Well no he says you get get undressed and and Buster Keaton won't get undressed in front of his father. Right. So he goes into the closet. Yes. To get to get undressed. Right. But he just puts on some work clothes right. I don't remember what happens.

[01:41:27] No he puts on a different long nightie. Right. And he gets back in the bed and then the second the dad leaves he gets out he takes the nightie off. He's got a different uniform on.

[01:41:37] But he has that look when he when the father opens the wardrobe of like are you happy now. Right. Yeah. These things where he's able to convey something with like such an incredible. He didn't need to speak. He didn't need to speak.

[01:41:51] He didn't need to speak and he doesn't speak because it's a silent film. It is a silent picture. All right. So right. There's lots of undressing business. She's waiting on the deck of the steamboat bill. She gets busted too. She gets busted too.

[01:42:07] And her father calls calls him a river tramp. Uh huh. There's not kind. No it's a good dig. Yeah. Yeah. River tramp. River tramp. That's you Ben. I'll take it. You know back back when I used to go on steamboats right back in those days. Yeah.

[01:42:31] When I was a traveling gambler. Yeah. On steamboats. I knew some river tramps. Oh yeah. And they were fun guys. Okay. Mississippi grind. Yeah. Okay Griff. What else happens in. How we get to the father being arrested. Because you have her waiting for him.

[01:42:48] He puts out the plank. The ship start moving. Beating up. Doesn't he assault King. Yes. Yes. They have the big fight. Right. Isn't that. Yeah. Right. There's the whole protracted sequence of Buster trying to get to her on the boat.

[01:43:04] And then when the father catches him and then Steamboat Bill's father goes after. Right. But there's another thing too which is that the father does. Steamboat Bill Senior. Yes. Gives up on Steamboat Bill Junior. Yes. And gets him a ticket back to Boston. Yes.

[01:43:23] And he's kind of like yeah you know what this didn't work out. Yeah. And then his father gets thrown in jail and that's when he changes his mind and he's going to stick around. That's the moment. Yes.

[01:43:35] And I was wildly struck not only by the emotion of this moment but the framing of that scene where I mean it was just so gorgeous. I mean the so much of this film is shot beautifully. Yes. It's a very good looking movie.

[01:43:53] You know it's this is this one scene where he is standing in the road and he's looking at camera and then beyond cameras that he's watching his dad get thrown in jail. Locked away. Put in the slammer. And Kitty is in the background watching him.

[01:44:09] And it's like here here it is. It's this. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Like like he's in the foreground and she's far away you can't even see her. And it's like not that any of these films were rudimentary but that feels so contemporary that framing to me.

[01:44:25] That feels so emotive. Yeah. And modern. And I just there are so many sequences or you know just images that are so striking including him standing in the doorway of the when he goes to visit his father to break him out. Yeah.

[01:44:42] Now that he's committed to his dad. I want to talk about that sequence. Plot wise just say untangled it. There's the earlier bit where it's a steamboat build senior tries to train Bill Junior down

[01:44:54] in sort of the engine room and he accidentally crashes the ship into the king. So then when they're back on land after they busted the two of them trying to canoe it all. Right. The king the father accuses the Canfield the ship of being like poorly run. Right.

[01:45:11] Unsafe. Oh and he has it condemned. Wants it condemned. And then he's like. Right. This is like my favorite bit of performance in the entire movie even more than the hat thing is Buster has brought this giant loaf of bread. It's very funny.

[01:45:28] Filled with tools and he says you know I made it myself. Yes. And then the prison guard turns around and that's when Buster's like saying to his dad essentially like you know I'm going to break you out of here. Right.

[01:45:41] Guy turns back around Buster's hands in the air. It just kind of puts it on the guy and like that's him like. I just always think that's what you're setting up like so many different things here which is his his dad doesn't want the bread.

[01:45:52] He doesn't want the bread because he's like my son's a fuck up. The bread probably tastes awful. This isn't what I want from you. I even did. I didn't even take it as the bread necessarily tasted awful. It's just like he's a stubborn mad fuck. Right.

[01:46:06] I'm just you know what I mean. I heard of all your bullshit. Yeah you're coming here with a fucking sourdough loaf or some shit right. You're not in your business right. And all he wants to do is convey to his father the bread's going to help you escape.

[01:46:18] Right. He's trying to find a way to pantomime as you said the sheriff keeps turning around catching him he has to try to. There's so much in motion here both sort of plot wise and then emotionally. Yes. It's like this one scene could be a whole film basically.

[01:46:31] But you get just like three minutes of Buster trying to pantomime different ways of conveying. And I remember. Break out walk out of jail. And you're laughing so hard at the Coolidge Corner when he sang that little song. The prisoners lament or whatever.

[01:46:46] And he's like kind of gesturing to the bread just like prisoners might want this bread. He's like sawing off his own thumb to the tune of the song to give the father an idea. Yeah.

[01:47:00] And then he does the little thing the little man with his fingers running away across the bread. Right. And it's all in time to a song that you cannot hear. You cannot hear which is incredible. But you hear it somehow all the same. You know. Right.

[01:47:11] The funny thing is he finds he finds like a piece of rock or something. He throws it over his shoulder out the window so that it looks like someone threw a window from. It's too right. He kicks one rock next to the sheriff's foot right.

[01:47:27] He takes another rock he throws it through the window so it looks like the rock by the foot went through the window from the outside. Right. Tells him look around someone's yelling and you know throwing breaking glass whatever.

[01:47:37] You know throwing a rock through and then just rips the butt off the bread shows his father all the tools inside puts the back on front. And now the dad's like well I think maybe I want I want the bread actually. Right.

[01:47:50] Are we building to my favorite line. Yes. OK. He's trying to get him to take the bread. He goes over to hand it to him right. He's holding it the wrong way. Everything falls out. This is the line David. Go ahead. You want me to say it.

[01:48:04] You know what happened when all the when the dough fell on the tool chest. It's just such a funny idea that he's like well I was making dough and yes it did briefly fall in a tool chest. Maybe it accumulated various tools. I didn't think much of it.

[01:48:17] I just baked the bread. I lifted off the floor and put it in the oven. So is that a real thing though that happens where someone escaped prison. It had to have had a file inside of it. It was such a trope.

[01:48:34] I like to think that it happened. Yes. I mean everyone remembers it's as common as what no beans like everyone. Right. Universal reference point. Oh boy. All right. So he does. Wait how does he knock the guy out again. He knocks out the prison guy at some point.

[01:48:51] Yeah. With the loaf or whatever. Yeah. Gets him out. But there's a storm of bro and then the storms of brewing and then we are basically into just a very thrilling apocalyptic sort of disaster sequence. Mm hmm.

[01:49:04] Which which builds to him in the wreckage of an abandoned theater where he starts to do all these meta gags. Oh there's a thing where he pulls the curtain and the shower comes down he pulls it back up and he's disappeared. Right.

[01:49:18] And it's just on a little platform and then his head pops up like his body like it's disembodied and then he cuts to the side you see like the mirror. Right. That it's kind of a classic magician magician. Right.

[01:49:30] It's almost like him kind of pulling back the curtain and acknowledging the trickery that goes into sequences. Right. Right. Right. And but then also like there is it's almost highlighting that in a lot of the sequence there is no no he's not doing this type of shit. Right.

[01:49:49] Right. Not this is not sleight of hand. Right. This is what my competitors would do. Right. Right. And he just like falls and falls flat on his back and then gets up. That's really happening. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's intense.

[01:50:08] I mean they have these wind machines I guess is how they do it but still it's intense. Were they just really big fans. There's like the building falling down right. The not the one on him but like the big kind of fake town set starting to crumble right.

[01:50:22] The fish palace falls in the water and all that stuff. The heart of destruction crumbles. Hospital everyone like running out of the hospital. They six Liberty Motor wind machines is what they were called.

[01:50:34] The cyclone scene alone cost a third of the movie's total budget which was estimated between 300 400000. I would have thought it was craft services. That was the other. Oh right. It's the hospital blows away and then you see everyone in the beds including him. Yeah.

[01:50:49] And then the bed blows away. Yes. And then the bed blows. It's something like you could only imagine seeing it in a cartoon. It's actually how did they pull that house away. Right. It's astonishing. Right.

[01:51:00] And not only do you feel like I could only imagine seeing that in a cartoon the cartoons you've seen that in came after this. Look everything about this motion picture. Yeah. It's perfect as far as I'm concerned. Yes.

[01:51:13] It's the plot is sound the emotion the emotional core is beyond sound. It's visually stunning and it's quiet moments. When he shows up at the at the prison with that loaf of bread and he's got that upturned umbrella. Yeah.

[01:51:28] And he's standing in the doorway feels like an Ingmar Bergman scene. Yes. You know what I mean is like this omen of death. And then you have this whole sequence which is utterly thrilling. Right. Utterly astonishing.

[01:51:40] On every like it's an incredible action sequence it's a credible feat of technical filmmaking they're incredible gags within it. It works as special effects as as actual thrilling suspense as comedy.

[01:51:51] And it's in service to the core story ultimately because the father is in jail and the jail is flooding. Yes. And he's got to save his father. And so it's not just stuff happening right. It's it's a it's a true impediment to the emotional journey of the story.

[01:52:07] Yes. And yet and it's also bananas and incredible to look at this film was not a hit. This was not at all. So here's my question. What the fuck is wrong with people. Well wrong with people.

[01:52:19] I point this way where he grabs onto a tree for safety and the wind is so insane that the tree is lifted out of its roots and he flies. Yeah. What is wrong with people that they did not love this film.

[01:52:32] He shuts the door and the house just falls apart into pieces of wood. Yeah. Funny. Yeah. There's really really good bits. I think the house would have killed him. If it happened because it was to fall in. Two tons. Yeah. The facade weighed two tons.

[01:52:49] That is I think I think the house would have killed because you look at it and you're sort of like well it's a thin wall. Maybe he could have just kind of broken it or whatever but like but also would would not have fallen as. Yeah.

[01:53:02] And also like you're like it's a wall like you know it's heavy. Maybe not. I mean I read that on the Internet so who knows. Internet says right. But I don't think that it would have. I don't think he would have loved it.

[01:53:12] You don't think you would have loved it. You don't think you would have got off on it. No. And when it fall and it's like yeah it falls and he doesn't die. He also doesn't flinch. No. Like he's still in character looking around. Yes. In the befuddled state.

[01:53:26] His his. After the after the thing works. His mark for that was a nail in the ground. Oh yeah. Right. That's why whenever I act I insist. Only nails. Only nails. No marking tape. Yeah. Take that tape away. Did you get my box of nails.

[01:53:43] Which color would you want to be John. Nails. Steel. My color is steel nails. The other thing I love though is like he becomes heroic at the end of the movie but in a way that doesn't feel like people get tired of that. Also I miss my mark.

[01:53:55] Can't see it every time. There are a lot of nails on this floor. House always falls on me. He becomes heroic at the end of movie in a way that doesn't feel like an unrealistic. Oh suddenly he's become fucking Ethan Hunt.

[01:54:04] You're like he just becomes kind of practical. Right. He figures it out. He saves the two people who mean the most to him. And the scene in which he in which his father teaches him to run the boat and he messes

[01:54:14] up five times or whatever because he's got that one lever. Yes. Pays off because he uses that lever to run the boat properly later on in his own unique college boy way of running the boat solo with with lines of rope. Yeah.

[01:54:27] And so it's a very different kind of thing. I think it's a very different kind of thing. It's like he's got lines of rope. Yeah. And so again it's like it's it's it's built in. None of it is out of nowhere. He's a little bit better at it.

[01:54:40] He's not great. Not great at it but it's enough so that you feel like as you say that it's perfectly believable within the world of the movie. It's terrific. I just have to imagine that people in 1928 were so high on bitters and wood alcohol

[01:54:53] being injected into their being too much birch beer being injected into the into the bags into their eyes. College and Phil is a really good movie. Yeah. Well let me try and give you some some let's see if there's any is there any record of obviously other movies.

[01:55:05] One huge issue is that it cost too much money. Yes there is a record and we will talk about that. There's also you know again ongoing creative issues happening behind the scenes a lot of fighting over this disaster sequence and all that but basically it's a it's a

[01:55:19] early into making the movie also Joe skenk and Keaton fight over this idea of supervisors Right. The super bait after a death to the credit for brand on colon. Yeah. And skank is like you're done man like you're not gonna make any more Buster Keaton movie right.

[01:55:37] Without that. And basically you like you know they split up and skank has got a team with this And basically, like, you know, uh, they split up and skank says, look, maybe you should go to MGM, like maybe shut down Keaton productions. Like they have the money, right?

[01:55:55] It'll be a different vibe for you there. Uh, there's a lot of fighting within the biographies over like, to what extent skink would sort of like made money from that, you know, like to what extent, like that's an altruistic

[01:56:07] suggestion from him or more of a, like, you know, profit. You know, you get what I'm saying. We'll never fully know how skank was, how skanky skank was. We don't, we'll never know the full skank scale of Joe skank.

[01:56:18] But but I do think it's similar to like a dynamic we've covered before on the podcast that's come up with with different filmmakers, but almost like Zemeckis with like his motion capture shit where people go like, you're done, Robert, you're done.

[01:56:32] If you want to, if you want to make movies, you have to drop this shit. Right. And he would come back every time and go like the last 20 minutes of my movie are going to be set in the center of a hurricane.

[01:56:40] And they're like, no, go to college. You know, this sort of like technical complication. It's like Verhoeven with the Nazis. Yeah. He's like, Steven Spielberg Jr. What's it about? I got on a boat with my dad. We're on a boat. OK, you're on a boat. That sounds fine.

[01:56:56] At the end there's a hurricane. We destroy a town. I'm just being like, Buster, this is over. If you want to be in movies, there's a path for you to keep making movies. We're not doing shit this way anymore.

[01:57:09] So Buster decides to switch to MGM, which he describes as the worst mistake of his career. And we can obviously talk about that next week. But well, ultimately, the film just didn't do that well. It did OK again. It did. It doubled its budget. OK.

[01:57:25] It made about 700 worldwide rentals, 700 grand. So I don't think that it's like a bomb per se. I do think that it should have been an enormous hit. And I also just think that times do be a changing a little bit.

[01:57:38] I was alive then and I was saying at the time, this should be an enormous hit. That was back when I would record my movie podcast on wax cylinders with an old river tramp as my producer. Oh, hello. Judge John Hodgman here.

[01:57:56] Send in your questions via message of fire. Brookline, Massachusetts. Hodgman has seen another impeccable film. I do question that where you're just like, was he just like too ahead of the curve? Yeah. Did this just not make sense to people what he was doing?

[01:58:10] Is this like people are getting freaked out because the because the trains come in towards the camera? Like I'm just you know, I'm having this play on my iPad as we're talking and I'm looking

[01:58:18] at this final sequence and you're looking at these like huge vistas of like a town getting flooded and a house just like bobbing along next side it and this woman hanging on for dear life and him swinging like an anchor. And were people just like, this isn't funny.

[01:58:33] This is just like big. Right. Well, I mean, and the general ends in that huge spectacle of the or doesn't end on. But yeah, there's the very expensive spectacle of the train, you know, going off the burning bridge or whatever. They were like, what is this shit? Right.

[01:58:48] Not funny. Like, you know, in a traditional sense. Yeah. But people have always gone to film for spectacle and the and the and the and the look, the hurricane is funny. You have to stop arguing with the box. The ticket goes. I understand.

[01:59:01] I've been having this argument for 100 years since I saw it. A full century. It's just funny that now you cannot make like a film comedy without this degree of spectacle and the spectacle is bad.

[01:59:13] And back then he would give you the most artful sort of marriage of the two. And people would be like, yeah, your spectacle out of my comedies. They would also say, get your spectacle out of my soup because the guy dropped process. Well, yes, I might.

[01:59:27] I might agree with you, Griffin, on this element, which is that, you know, like young John Hodgman of real life, which is coming to CBS this fall. Yes, that's what they renamed young Hodgman at Yale because they didn't find that to be

[01:59:39] they didn't find that to be accessible. It's not their audience. Yeah. Little Hoity Toity. Yeah. Little that was the name of my character. Actually, Little Hoity Toity. It's like, shouldn't it be Hodgman? I'm like, no, no, no, no. That's the thing. His name is Little Hoity Toity.

[01:59:52] It's like the Bob Newhart show. We never explain. We never explain who Young Hodgman is. Right. His name's on Newhart in the show. Yeah. They're like, yeah, no, no, thank you. You're not we're not doing this. And the last third is a hurricane.

[02:00:01] But the point I'm saying is this. What Young Hodgman seeing this. I didn't understand what I was seeing for sure. Like, I didn't get how hard it was to make this go.

[02:00:05] I didn't understand the fragility of the human body the way I do now that my body is. Right. Exactly. And everyone agreed with me. And I think that's what's so interesting about this.

[02:00:10] I mean, I think it's interesting because it's like, you know, I think it's like, you know, I think it's interesting because it's like, you know, I think it's interesting because I guess it's maybe it was too big to take to take into it for a lot of audiences.

[02:00:48] It took a couple decades for like movies to catch up with him. And now we look at him, we're like, how did he make this 100 years ago? Right. CGI, I guess, is the answer. Right. Probably CGI. Yeah. Buster Keaton. Oh, yeah.

[02:01:02] So the film just, you know, look, Variety called it a PIP of a comedy. That's good. It's not a PIP. But The New York Times called it a gloomy and sorry affair. Jesus. Yeah. Notoriously on the money again. Mordaunt Hall is the critic back then.

[02:01:18] His name is Mordaunt? Mordaunt Hall? Yes, Mordaunt Hall. M-O-R-D-A-N-T? Mordant? Correct. Correct. Meaning morbid? Yes, I would say so. Yeah. Maybe look at yourself, Mordaunt. The taglines are very Twister focused. Uh-huh. Hold on, everybody. It's a hurricane of laughs. Right. This one, the screen's first big Mississippi thriller.

[02:01:40] The Sheik of Muddy Waters. Did you say this year's first big Mississippi thriller? Correct. The screens. I'm sorry. What a thrill. Worth the price of admission alone to see what happened to Buster when the Twister hits the town. Here are the two most interesting ones.

[02:01:55] Buster's gayest comedy opus simply bursting with gals, guile and gales of laughter. And then here's one that talks about... I think it's kind of laying it on a little thick. I agree. Talk about Buster being ahead of his time in terms of predicting the genres.

[02:02:11] Fun, fast and furious. Oh! And I am actually ready to announce, we saw Fast X last night, that of course Buster Keaton is in Fast X. That's right. He appears. It makes them all the more astounding that I thought it was the worst movie I've ever seen.

[02:02:26] You should have had that role. You should have had the Buster Keaton role. I should have had the Buster Keaton role. We got one more guy to help us and then the Steamboat Bill Jr. or whatever comes in.

[02:02:34] I'm sitting there with my arms crossed, still isn't working for me. Don't care. It's not CGI, they've actually brought him back from the dead. He's alive. He's alive. He's literally alive. I plucked him from the time screen.

[02:02:47] And Vin Diesel turns to the camera and he's like, Griffin, he can hang out with you after this. He wants to. He heard about your podcast. He thinks you're cool. He liked Draft Day. Yeah, he thought he liked your gag with the coffee and was mad.

[02:03:01] Sorry it was cut out. It wasn't in the movie. He's been watching, has watched the trailer many times. Anyway, let's do the. OK, yeah. Tell me what people were interested in besides this movie. Because Steamboat Bill Jr. is opening at 10. Jesus. Jeez Louise.

[02:03:15] OK, number one is a new film this week. So this is a rival new release. Rival new release that is making three times as much money. It's making a searing 128 grand over Steamboat Bill's 43. OK, give me a genre.

[02:03:29] It's a silent drama from the great British director Alexander Cordo. The Drapes of London. Is it a literary adaptation? Don't think so. Looks like it's a sort of, you know, he's a he's a fancy man and she's a lady. It's Billy Dove and Clive Brook.

[02:03:50] Those are the actors? Those are the actors. Clive Brook, a famous British silent actor of the time. And the film is called The Yellow Lily. The Yellow Lily. Hard to say. No good. Bad title. All right. Number two at the box office is a silent drama.

[02:04:07] This one's based on a novel. OK, it stars Dolores Del Rio, who I think is a pretty well-known issue. She's a Mexican actress. Very important figure in Mexican cinema. Also Warner Baxter.

[02:04:20] OK, who is best known for playing the Cisco Kid in Old Arizona, which he won an Oscar for. Mm hmm. And it's directed by Edwin Carew. OK, Edwin Carew. And it is a literary adaptation. Yes.

[02:04:35] And it looks like it's sort of a it's a Western and the lead character, who is the title character of the film. She's half Native American. And there's a whole romantic, you know, drama about this. You say the title of this film will be canceled?

[02:04:50] No, it is called I don't want to guess for fear of it is actually has it has the title is the name of one of our mutual friends. She's been on this show. Fran Hoffman, Fran Hoffman. Now, it would be great. Emily, you're cheating.

[02:05:06] The name of the film is Hajman here. Dateline Brooklyn, Massachusetts. Run. Don't walk to see Fran Hoffman and Fran Hoffman. The film is called Ramona. Oh, Ramona. OK, number three at the box office. Also new this week. It's a comedy.

[02:05:24] A flapper masquerades as her straight laced cousin to try and impress a potential suitor. That's a good premise. She's trying to be like she's always trying to be flappery and then she's like, I can't be kid flap. The straight, the straight laced flapper.

[02:05:36] Can't pretend to be a normie. A trend. The actress is Lois Norma. Normie Norman, the normie Lois Moran and Neil Hamilton are the stars of Don't Marry. That's the full title. That's the title. I think this one sounds fun. That sounds like a hip of a comedy.

[02:05:52] Yeah, that's a pip. Now, this next film is a horror film, which is funny because the title of it kind of sounds like a comedy title directed by Frank Tuttle. The hilarious murderer starring Esther Ralston. Death comes a laugh. Let's see.

[02:06:13] It's about a thrill seeking socialite engaged to a bland, proper Englishman. And he wants her to purge her of her thrill seeking ways. So he arranges for her to spend a night in a haunted house to frighten the audacity out of her. Sure.

[02:06:29] Unknown to him, this mansion is being used as a hideout for an oriental mastermind of the crime world. Okay. Well, anyway, the film is called Something Always Happens, which I assume is sort of a promise of like every five minutes there'll be something new. Something always happens.

[02:06:49] I'm getting a little bit coaster hearing that movie described. The genre of criminals using a fake haunted house to hide out in occurs all the time. And we got to bring that back. It's been too long. It's been too long. Yeah, that was a good one.

[02:07:04] Well, well, well, you know, we should write it into the hilarious murderer. Yes. Number five. Right, Ben? Right, River Tramp? Uh, yes. Number five at the box office is... I was trying to think of a River Trampian thing to say, but nothing came to mind.

[02:07:20] Maybe I'll put in a horn, but I'll make it sound wet. Yeah, that sounds good. Number five is a part talkie. Part talkie. So, which means basically has a musical score. It has sound effects, doesn't have talking. Okay. So it's more of a soundie.

[02:07:38] It's more of a soundie. Yes. It's a lost film. Okay. No Prince Known to Exist stars Dolores Costello, more interestingly directed by Michael Curtis, who of course directed a little film you may have heard of called Casablanca, along with Angels with Dirty Faces and one billion other films.

[02:07:57] A Hungarian director. Co-written by Brookline's own the Epstein Brothers. Uh, no. Oh, well, Casablanca was, yes. But no, this film was not. But um... I'm gonna guess. It's the name of the film is the name of a neighborhood in New York that doesn't really

[02:08:12] exist anymore, but sort of a classic name for like... Little Italy. Classic name for like, um, uh, the sort of tough neighborhood. Tribe Health Kitchen. Like that. But no, the film is called... The Gasworks Town. Great guess. Skid Row.

[02:08:29] That's a good guess too, but no, it's called Tenderloin. Oh, sure. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Back when they were kind of like, hey, this part of town kind of looks like a tenderloin if you draw on map. And if you go there, you get murdered. What happens there?

[02:08:43] Brutal murder. They'll take your money and your life. Yeah, it's called Tenderloin. She's a dancer in the Tenderloin district. And then a gang, a kid in a gang likes her. And they get, uh, they get... Right side of the track. Okay, so that's pretty good.

[02:09:01] So I'm going to say this right now. That's one through nine? That's one through five. One through five. All those movies suck. Some other films, it seems... You know that one that's lost? Good. See ya. It's lost because you threw it in the fucking garbage.

[02:09:20] No, some other films. A 1928 film called Skyscraper, starring I'm seeing here, Dwayne the Rock Johnson. Starred by Russell Marshall Thurber. Suckscraper is what I call that. Best known for being initially written by Ayn Rand back when she was in Hollywood.

[02:09:36] That was Buster wanted to make his skyscraper movie and he's getting beaten at the box office by some fucking also Rand. You also have a... Also Rand? You have the issue of the film The White Sister, which has come up in prior box office. White Suckster.

[02:09:51] You have a film with a great title that I think we should remake this film immediately called Glorious Betsy. Oh, that's her story. I don't know. She sounds pretty good. Yeah. Sucky as sucksty. And then another great title. Damn.

[02:10:07] I mean, this would be a fucking great title to this day. A crime drama called Diamond Handcuffs. Great title. No plot details on that one. Yeah, that doesn't suck. No, that's pretty fucking cool, actually. All of this is in the public domain, right?

[02:10:22] I mean, this is all IP for... Yeah, we can take this. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of wild how few proper Buster remakes there have been for how many of the premises just feel like, well, that's just like a perfect comedy setup. Yeah. No, no. 100%.

[02:10:36] I mean, anything with identity switcheroos or I have to pretend to be an ex when I like I have to pretend to be fancy when I'm poor or the other way around. I'm always like, it's pretty good. Get a good performer.

[02:10:47] It's like he's a real straight laced buzzard and she's a wild cat. You know, I'm just like, okay. The buzzard and the cat. Buzzard and the cat. Yeah. You know, that doesn't that sound good? Yeah, sounds great. All right.

[02:10:59] So that's Steamboat Bill Jr. and it is, of course, sadly, the end of Buster's real independent era. Yeah. But I do think it is a triumph. I do think it's very, very good. I know that's not like a hot take. I do too.

[02:11:13] And to prevent people from thinking that the remaining episode is just going to be some downer postscript, Cameraman, which is his first MGM film, is my personal favorite. Yes. I have never seen it. I look forward to watching it and listening along.

[02:11:28] It is an incredibly simple, straightforward film, but I think it is an absolute triumph. And we're not ending this series on a fucking downer note. No, I mean, you don't love Spite Marriage as much, right? No, I don't love it as much, but it's fine. It's enjoyable.

[02:11:43] Yeah, it's better than college. Now before we end the episode, could we do a quick merch spotlight? Sure. Do you guys, is that okay? Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. You want to do it here? So I have this package here that we got delivered kind of a while ago.

[02:11:59] Now this isn't a... Do you recall what this is, David? This isn't a traditional merch spotlight where we often talk about merchandise that was manufactured specifically for that movie, of which it's hard to find. Oh, so this is Steamboat Bill Jr. merchandise?

[02:12:12] This is more general Buster Keaton series merchandise. Ben went down a rabbit hole and decided he needed to own one of these. Uh-oh. Yeah, I mean, I wanted to spend the company's money wisely and get something that really

[02:12:24] is useful for the show and is of interest, of course. Let's see if David or John can identify what this is. Is it a bottle of wood alcohol and bitters? Yeah, that'd be real bad. Okay. Okay, I'm going to take my time then. Whoa.

[02:12:44] It's a thing that makes noise. It's a clapper. Oh! Why did we talk about that again? That does ring a bell. Because the kind of comedy that he performs slapstick. Oh, that's right! And that's what this is! Oh, it's so annoying. That's a literal slapstick.

[02:13:02] How much did that cost? $500. This costs... It looks pretty well made, you know? It's sturdy. Yeah, but this is actually vintage. Really? Yeah. To what year? Uh, 2022. Wow, I remember when that was new.

[02:13:18] Look, not to insult my giant merchandise spotlight, but I, uh, John, I bought a present for you. What? I did tell you this somewhat recently. We got launched with our friend Brendan Hines, past and future guest. I don't get the slapstick?

[02:13:28] I told you, just make sure I don't forget to... You're gonna sign it. Can I try it? Okay. Oh, yeah. But John, in addition to being a good friend of mine and a friend of the podcast... And of Ben's and David's as well, I hope.

[02:13:42] There are three times I clocked in the last two years I have gone to you and went, John, we came up with a dumb bit. Would you do this? Yes. Will you record an entire alternate audio track for the sunglasses on version of They Live? Correct.

[02:14:00] I was very happy to do that. We came up with this idea. I'm asking you to do it now, but we've already set it up, right? And like in the Coraline episode, I said, we have this bit where we found a door in

[02:14:10] the studio and JD went through the door and you're recording an alternate episode. Would you just do this? All three times I didn't go, hey, do you have any ideas? I went, here's an idea. Can you execute this? Right.

[02:14:20] You were our live show at the Brooklyn Opera House. You were the phantom of the opera. Very good. Thank you. Yes. You've been so kind every time I throw one of these things out, you go, but of course,

[02:14:32] and you over deliver that I felt the need to repay you with something that I know you want. And I've known you want and any of our listeners know dead to rights that you have wanted. You did hint that something was coming. I don't know what it is.

[02:14:50] And it's not a guess of a gift. Shall I open it? Please. It's here. It's packaged in a, has Japanese on the box. This was shipped from Japan. Shipped from Japan. This was shipped from Japan. Very well wrapped bubble wrap.

[02:15:04] Let me make sure to do this on mic because people love this sound. Sure. Because this is a little bit more of an antique. I'm going to add a little mouth sound as well. I didn't like when he did the opening of the package.

[02:15:17] And this is a regular segment, by the way. Bubble wrap. What is it? It's the, uh, it's a Playmobil set that I have long had my eye on. Of course. I know what this is. Then we talked about this on our master builder episode.

[02:15:34] On our master builder episode. Where we had a 40 minute digression of the Playmobil movie. A truly forgotten piece of content. It's the, it's the, uh, the Austrian police officer slash soldier from an earlier century arresting a tramp. Yes. Oh, why you know, pass that on to Park Bench.

[02:15:54] It's Eric Adams' favorite Playmobil set. He's trying to put one on every stroller. Keeping the streets clean. Number 5508 mint in box. Mints in box. Wow. Straight from Japan. I'm not going to open it up. But the box is the real art, I think. The box is beautiful. Number 5508.

[02:16:11] If you want to make a tag along. And also, I don't need to open it because as it says right here, contents as shown. Oh, take their word for it. That's very kind. Thank you very much.

[02:16:20] I wonder, I'll have to research what year this is supposed to be. Because this, this police officer has a big old Napoleon hat with a big, a big feather on it. I think it was manufactured in the seventies.

[02:16:28] I don't know what year the Playmobil set is set in. No, no, I'm just wondering when it's supposed to be set. The era of the set. The depiction. Right. Arresting a vagrant, Playmobil style. Thank you very much. You're very welcome.

[02:16:37] I have to say thank you again for inviting me to rewatch one of my favorite movies and also watch now one of my least favorite movies. Now you know. But the favorite one was a real favorite to rewatch.

[02:16:48] It's been a while and I got to share it with someone that I care about and it was terrific. And I think it holds up and I think it's better than those other fucking movies. I agree. The rest of the box office was trash.

[02:16:57] I'm really, really mad still, even a hundred years later. It's terrific. David needs to pee. I do need to pee very badly. Great. And we gotta go. We're gonna be done. Thank you for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe.

[02:17:09] Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media helping to produce the show. Thank you to Ben for ordering this slapstick in the trash. This will be great at the picket line for the WGA. Oh, that's smart. Yeah, sure. Oh, and they would love that.

[02:17:26] Oh, they'd love it. Immediately. Zazzalove will go fine. Whatever they want. To put the fucking slapstick down. You like this Zazzy? That's what we gotta do. We gotta raz Zazzy until he gives up. We gotta raz Zaz.

[02:17:42] Thank you to AJ McKee and Alex Barron for our editing, Leigh Montgomery in the Great American Novel for our song, Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork, JJ Burch for our research, David is storming off in protest. Tune in next week for Cameraman and Spite Marriage.

[02:18:07] You could go over to Patreon. We're still journeying through the Planet of the Apes. You a fan of that series? I like the first one. You should watch the sequels. I've seen the sequels, they're great. I'm a fan. I mean, yes. The answer is yes, I'm a fan.

[02:18:22] Okay, I wasn't sure. Well, it's been my pleasure to do all those bits for you and as you say, you do just give me a prompt and then I just do whatever I feel like doing. I hope you've enjoyed it. I've loved it.

[02:18:32] So, also in this box that you gave me with the Playmobil, is my check in here or something? Yes, a blank check. We pay for playmobil, it's not money. It's a very clear system. I appreciate it.

[02:18:44] And as always, I think that slapstick is going to be a regular part of every on mic discussion. What was the slapstick used for? So, it would simulate getting hit on your bottom. So, you swing it, right?

[02:19:02] And you don't actually connect with the person's bum, but the board behind it makes the noise. Nice paddle. Yeah. Nice.