Contact with Jamie Bell

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to express All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check You're an interesting species, an interesting mix

[00:00:24] You're capable of such beautiful dreams and such horrible nightmares You feel so lost, so cut off, so alone, only you're not See, in all our searching, the only thing we found that makes the emptiness bearable is podcasts Okay, I didn't know you had a morse lock

[00:00:47] I didn't know I had a morse too That was great, that was just wonderful Sometimes I look at the quotes page and I dry run it in my head

[00:00:54] And I go, do I think I have the voice? But I don't know until I start saying it out loud That's a decent morse all considering That was pretty good Yeah, he's one of those, he surprisingly has a thing, morse

[00:01:09] Jamie, have you ever worked with morse? Have you ever done a morse? I've never done a morse, I've never done an inspector morse either David knows what that is obviously I do, I do No, I've never been morse, never been morse

[00:01:23] I'm just, I'm very confused for one second What is the unifying thread that would make it so that the two of you knew who detective morse was, but I wouldn't For one, it's inspector morse, not detective morse Yeah, as you said But how do you know that?

[00:01:43] There might be a British Isles thing about it, there might be a United Kingdom thing about it Potentially, I don't want to Famously said in Oxford, I believe, am I making that up? I think it might be right in the good old country of England

[00:01:58] Right, in England and we both sort of spent some time there, we both sort of grew up there To be honest with you, I think you probably spent about the same amount of time as me there Because I left ages ago

[00:02:09] That's probably true, 13 years for me and I feel like it's probably not that different for you It's about the same for me actually But wait a second, Occam's razor states that the most likely scenario is often the correct one Okay

[00:02:25] What are the chances that you and I have been podcasting for five years and I never knew that you grew up in the United Kingdom? Close to zero my friend

[00:02:33] You're asking me to put faith in the notion based with no evidence that you grew up in the UK Yeah, yeah, yes, I did as did our guest but our guest never did a morse and he never worked with the morse He never talked to the morse course

[00:02:50] Yeah He's great, he's great morse He's great, he's great This movie's got a lot of their great people, I mean, Fickner is one of the all time he's great I did work with Fickner, I have worked with Fickner When did you work with Fickner?

[00:03:06] I worked with Fickner on a movie which maybe has the worst title in the history of film It was a film called The Chum Scrubber Oh, of course, that's right Sundance classic And I think if I remember correctly he played my therapist father in that way

[00:03:24] Both, double whammy Right, yeah, I've seen The Chum Scrubber If I could just contest your claim for a second Jamie, I once appeared in a movie that when we shot it It was titled Samaritan

[00:03:38] I was told that I was being paid $100 to appear in a movie called Samaritan And then four years later it showed up on Amazon video titled Butt Whistle So I would argue that's almost the worst title of a movie that has ever existed

[00:03:55] Sure, I mean, as you know that it was Butt Whistle I mean, I don't know maybe you would have been in it I would have asked for $150 at least That's like hazard pay for being in a movie called Butt Whistle Gotta give me that Butt Whistle bump

[00:04:11] Fickner, you're right Griffin, this movie is filled with guys Scarrett Yeah You know, I feel like, you know, Angela Bassett John Hurts Hurt of course Rob Lowe exclusively on television, right? Like do we even see one conference room? He has one scene Yeah, he has one conference room

[00:04:29] He's got to see, he's got to see on a table, yeah Right But it's a real cameo role that role But a lot of those, I feel like this is a movie where I forget that so many other big name actors are in it

[00:04:43] Because it was promoted so exclusively as like Foster McConaughey That then you're like, man James Woods isn't a bunch of this Angela Bassett isn't a bunch of this Rob Lowe is like uncredited We have to do a Woods minute because I love him in this movie

[00:04:57] He's, I really, he wrestles inside of me You want to get lost in the woods? I do, I mean okay But this is the post-gump movie So it makes sense right, anyone who gets called is probably like Oh sure, Zemeckis, like yeah, I'll swing in, I don't care

[00:05:13] This is also a 90 million dollar budget in 1997 Yeah, right So I just imagine that they go to Rob Lowe and they're like We have like three scenes, two of them are fragments on a TV interview We can only pay you $250,000 I said okay, I'm so sorry Right

[00:05:36] Oh boy, all right, Griff, introduce our podcast, introduce our guests We're off the rails Sure, we're off the rails, we're off to the races The orb has dropped into the ocean And it feels like no time has passed at all

[00:05:48] But in fact we've already been podcasting for two hours Folks, this is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David My name's Griffin I'm David And it's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success

[00:06:01] Early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks To make whatever crazy passion projects they want And sometimes those checks clear And sometimes they bounce into the ocean, baby This is a mini-series on the films of Roberts and Mekkes It is called Podcast Away

[00:06:17] And this is kind of arguably the biggest, the purest blank check I mean this is such a... There's the specific category of the immediate Oscar follow-up We've covered a handful of those Right, we have Right, it's like, it's not necessarily their most expensive movie Or their weirdest movie

[00:06:39] But it's the movie where they strategically say like I want to make the thing that either A, I could only make Or make at this size or in this way right after winning an Oscar Or B, it's like I just want the freedom where I can make this

[00:06:54] And they have to back the fuck off, you know? It's also, it's like a project that was long tortured Long, you know, ingestation, pass from director to director And he gets to come aboard and be like I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do whatever I want

[00:07:11] And the studio that has been resistant to even making this movie Has to just be like Well alright, alright, alright, yeah, whatever you want Whatever you want, you made gum And it's a hit, I would say a hit For a movie like this, it's a hit

[00:07:24] It's one of those films, it was kind of like right on the cusp Where it was like no one lost money Yeah And the expectations were either it was going to be a colossal flop Or a huge blockbuster And it kind of landed right in the middle

[00:07:36] I mean, I don't want to jump ahead to the old box office game at the end of this But I would say it's second week If you look at those numbers, it's pretty extraordinary in terms of the drop off It's such a minimal drop off Yes

[00:07:48] For a movie this size, it's a great second weekend Which I think says a lot about Jody's There's a lot about the movie as a whole I mean for a movie this scale to come out And it opens against something pretty strong Found up mistaken right

[00:08:01] And then to have those Yeah, those second week legs is pretty extraordinary Are you a huge box office nerd? Is this like something I, yeah Talking about drop offs Love the numbers But I am a little bit upset, well more than a little bit upset

[00:08:17] So upset about this box office mojo thing I mean, I know it's like old hat news Old news and everything I'll just say for hours Fuck If you listen to our swing shift episode Which is the episode in which I call up them

[00:08:33] You know, like I do my usual routine Box office mojo has suddenly changed And I don't know what to do You can hear the panic in my voice I don't know what we're gonna do now We truly, they audio boom bumped us to a smaller studio that week

[00:08:48] Because they had double booked space And then box office mojo was nerfed While we were recording And David and I walk out of it and we're like Well that's the worst episode we've ever done And then you listen back to it and it's totally normal

[00:09:01] But we were just on like existential panic Like whiten up the link Driving our nails into the table Just being like everything we know has been upended The numbers is, you know I use the numbers now It's okay, it's okay But it's not as good

[00:09:16] Like the layout of the old one was so nice It was so easy It's very fussy the numbers It's got lots of little, you know Texts that you kind of have to know exactly where to go I'm looking at box office mojo now

[00:09:28] I haven't looked in a while I mean it's alright I guess It looks like they've done a little work on it But it's not great It was so clean and unfussy before And just my favorite pastime was There was the drop down menu of Adjust to today's dollars

[00:09:43] But you could also pick any other year So I would do that mental exercise of like What, how much would interstellar gross The same year as independence day Like I would do all those thoughts experiments You know Like would Avengers even cross a hundred million dollars In 1975

[00:10:02] Like I'd do the reverse All that's gone Gone Gone like vapor and smoke But anyway Anyway Our guest today is a big fucking box office nerd He is also one of the best actors of his generation And someone we've been trying to get on the podcast

[00:10:20] For a very, very long time Because he implausibly listens to the show Ladies and gentlemen You know him from Billy Elliot From Turn Washington Spies From many projects But most prominently He's motherfucking Tintin Jamie Bell Welcome to the show Guys it's such an honor

[00:10:42] And I know that as you said We have tried so many times for me to be on this podcast And it just hasn't worked out For various different reasons So I really do appreciate And I, you know Having the chance to come on now

[00:10:50] And to speak about a film that I It's such a, my relationship with this movie is so interesting Because I watched it again recently I obviously saw it for the first time as a child And had a certain reaction to it then

[00:11:01] And I react to it so differently now And I watched it obviously very recently To prepare for this And just for some context I mean we are It is the day before the election The day before the election It's just so interesting that in this movie

[00:11:13] The central idea of this is They're receiving something A message that is going to change Everything about how we live Yes, yes And literally within 24 hours Or less, I mean hopefully maybe more Everything is about to change Absolutely No, because right

[00:11:31] We're recording this the day before the election It will come out like five days after the election And we don't know if this episode's Going to be released into like an apocalyptic Apocalyptic hellscape A state of relief Or a state of greater confusion

[00:11:48] It's like it's and I don't want to Make any further jokes Putting my bets on any one of those three outcomes But it is a very interesting movie To watch in that light I was thinking about how a rival came out The Friday after the election

[00:12:08] Oh, that's right, that's right Right, I remember that And it underperformed Oh, I'm sorry Overperformed that weekend at the box office And then similarly kind of like Sleeper held to a hundred million dollars Which no one thought that movie was going to be A blockbuster of that order

[00:12:23] And then became like A fucking best picture, best director nominee And people were like This kind of feels like the movie That speaks to this feeling most And this movie is an interesting counterpart To that But coming from the opposite side Where it was so hyped

[00:12:41] There was so much pressure on it But it wasn't maybe speaking to a cultural moment In that same way That's the other thought I had was like Arrival was made for like What, like 40 million dollars? I think 40, 50, yeah Right, that movie was like independently produced

[00:12:59] And then Paramount acquired it And it was like, you know They were ready for it to be like a modest performer And then it became like something more And this movie cost 90 million dollars And you're like And this movie would be produced for an arrival Style number today

[00:13:17] With movie stars taking pay cuts And, you know, a scrappy VFX team Because in terms of what the big money Effect shots in this movie They are somewhat quaint by today's standards And they're not many sequences that are that expensive The first shot of the film, right

[00:13:37] Is probably the most visual effects heavy And then you just boom out from Earth And just keeps passing back and back and back And beyond the Milky Way and all that stuff I mean, in terms of like other sequence The wormhole sequence officers will get to Right

[00:13:50] But other than that I mean, I guess the machine but there's It's not a movie where it has dazzling It's talky, it's feelings It's, you know, philosophical Like it's not a movie where Zemeckis is like I'm gonna flex a new visual muscle

[00:14:07] Although he does pull off some little moments That do kind of like knock you on your feet Off your feet, which I love Like that, I do love that he can't help But do incredibly Yeah, the mirror shot I'm just thinking about the mirror shot

[00:14:21] It's so funny that Because the mirror shot is like so Like such a reference point for this movie In terms of its magic and its trickery It kind of comes in a section of the movie Kind of pretty early on And then nothing really else kind of happens

[00:14:34] In terms of like his magic tricks Stuff until much, much later in the film So it's in terms of Zemeckis It's very, in his work It feels very restrained from him Totally Maybe, no I think inarguably his most restrained movie

[00:14:51] And I don't know if that's because of the themes I think Allied's his most restrained movie But I think this is number two Oh, Allied, yeah Well, Allied's very buttoned down But people like fucking a car in that movie And there's like a sandstorm

[00:15:04] Like it has some drama This might be Zemeckis' least horny movie It's a little matter of fact about I said people still have sex in it You know, you got McConaughey and his prettiest I made a note because I've made some notes Because that's what I mean

[00:15:23] Yeah, baby, I made some notes I made a note that says McConaughey is a priest who loves to fuck True Because one of his lines is Yeah, I couldn't handle the whole celibacy thing You could call me a man of the cloth Without the cloth

[00:15:37] That's his defining characteristic It's too horny to be a priest He doesn't want to give it up I can't give it up He's not doing it Oh, man, we got to have a big summit about McConaughey Because this is it

[00:15:52] I guess a time to kill was the previous year Time to kill's the breakout And this was there like anointment Like here you go, now you're one of the guys And I feel like this kind of benches him for a couple years It does

[00:16:03] The people were kind of like I don't know if I like If I like what this guy's giving me Well, he has the Newton boys the next year Right And Ed TV the next year Which of course is one of the great performances Of the 90s Sure

[00:16:16] But it's a movie that is very much The bridesmaid to Truman Show Oh, yeah Jamie, have you seen Ed TV? No, I haven't seen Ed TV But isn't that kind of a I mean, is Truman Show before or after that? It's Truman Show's before Year after

[00:16:29] Truman Show's a year after? No, no, Ed TV's a year after Because I remember Ed TV was supposed to come out Like four months later And they pushed it back a year Because they were so worried about the Truman Show thing It was a March release

[00:16:43] You know, they weren't positioning Ed TV for Oscars Yeah But McConnay ain't credible in it Anyway McConnay for this dropped out of the jackal To do this right Like he had to help the lead role For the jackal Dropped out and did this instead

[00:16:57] Was he gonna play the jackal Or was he gonna play the gear role or whatever He was the lead You would do it, right? I think you would If this was on the... It's a Mechis, it's Foster Yeah It's a huge budget Based on a bestselling book

[00:17:14] I mean, it's a kind of a no-brainer really It's just the role isn't right for him It's undercooked also I just feel like The movie doesn't serve it totally well I think it also like He's a guy where it took weirdly a long time

[00:17:31] For him to totally understand how to use himself on screen He's one of those guys who just like Always was unquestionably charismatic and appealing But his persona is so slippery in so many ways There's so many odd contradictory things going on That it's like

[00:17:48] When you put him in a lead role You gotta have a really deft hand to know how to use The way the audience is going to respond to him Moment to moment I wonder I mean, it's post... So this year he has contact and Amistad

[00:18:05] So he's working with Spielberg and Zemeckis In the same year You're the guy Yeah And Right, I think Contact's a good movie But I guess both those movies are like Seen as slightly underwhelming follow-ups To colossal movies from these big directors

[00:18:23] And then after the Newton Boys and Ed TV And U571, which he's fine in But then he has his whole I'll just do like kind of like fun trash Like wedding planner How to lose a guy in 10 days Sahara Two for the money Failure to launch

[00:18:42] That just that kind of like What? I'll just do like easy breezy stuff And I don't know if that's a conscious thing Or if that's just what's coming across his desk I don't know how that works I remember there being

[00:18:53] I think it was a New York Times review When How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days came out Which was, I guess the second of that run After wedding planner Yeah And they went like finally It took Hollywood a decade to figure out

[00:19:05] What kind of movie star McConaughey was But they've nailed it He's the sort of like lovable cad In the rom-com Right And it felt like they were just like Fuck it all in Push all in And then he would do shit like two for the money

[00:19:18] Or Sahara that were kind of like This feels like his interests Like these feel like his passion projects Where he's like, I like gambling or rock climbing You know But here's the thing And I think he's a very sincere person Like and he's best when he's sincere

[00:19:36] Like I love him in like You know, well, everyone loves the magic mic And mud and Waffle Wall Street and interstellar Like that He's being very like Sort of just sort of straightforward And kind of like mystically sincere in those movies

[00:19:51] But what's the unifying thread between those three roles You said in particular The movie is kind of structured around Like you constantly questioning Whether or not you can trust this guy In different ways Like bright mud It's like, is this guy like an outlaw Is he dangerous Right

[00:20:08] Magic mic is like, is this guy a scam artist? Is he on the level? Is he gonna fuck me over And interstellar is like Where do his allegiances lie with family He's signed, exactly He abandoned his kids And in Waffle Wall Street He's basically like

[00:20:22] He's like a demon Like you know, I mean I love him in that movie But he's like, you know He's otherworldly He comes in, he sings a song He like tempts him into this dark world Then he like vanishes And then there's Dallas Buyer's Club of course

[00:20:34] In that step I just think there's something so naturally seductive About him That you can't position him As just sort of like A sincere innocent There has to be some conflict of like Is this guy on the level And I think opposite Jody in this

[00:20:53] There's just something about that pair-up That match-up that doesn't And listen, I love this movie But there's just something about that That does never really Right from the first meet cute In that bizarre play in Puerto Rico When they're getting beer

[00:21:07] And he pulls the compass out of the cracker jet It's just if that whole From then on out It just never quite fires And never quite works They have zero chemistry Right, I love this movie It's a space movie It's a think-you space movie

[00:21:21] It's like right up my alley And I love both Jody Foster And Matthew McGonaghey But they are what keeps it Or whatever Their connection or just his kind of way Of like flitting in and out of the movie Is what keeps it from being like a

[00:21:36] Whatever, perfect, you know Movie that I watch all the time But I still love this movie Jamie, why did you want to do this movie Like you said you saw when you were a kid What's it to just let's talk some echoes Yeah, I think, I mean obviously

[00:21:49] I grew up with Fran Roger Rabbit And Back to the Future The Death Becomes and all that stuff But I didn't know that the same guy Made all those things You know, I think there's something quite extraordinary When you learn that this same guy

[00:22:03] Has all of these tricks up his sleeve He can do all of these very different Tonally, you know The way he executes his movies Are all very different I'm sure you guys have been talking About him endlessly recently But I think Contact is just kind of

[00:22:19] Because it was recorded off the television I think, it's kind of the perfect film To watch with commercials I don't know that sounds really terrible But it's kind of a movie that really excels In 20 minute segments with a break 20 minute segments than a break

[00:22:35] You know, there's something about The idea of the unknown, right? There's something about reaching into the cosmos And something calling you back That is just inherently fantastical And wonderful and what if And that really inspired me And I love Jodie

[00:22:52] Silence of the Lambs is my favourite film of all time Jodie is an actor that she just There is something in her conviction In her spirit that is just hard to deny I mean like the final scene in this movie When she's giving that speech

[00:23:05] You know, I don't know what it is But her breathing or something about her tonality And her voice, I cannot Not be moved by her So I think if you put her in A lot of similarities between this film And Silence of the Lambs

[00:23:19] A lot of the themes that we're exploring here Tom Skerritt kind of brushing her aside And institutional workplace Kind of sexism, casual sexism and all this stuff And she plays to authority So well There's this set scene with Tom Skerritt as well Where she's like

[00:23:38] He's kind of saying like we're going to cancel it Because basically you could be listening for years And hear nothing and everyone think you're a quack And crazy, but it's my life It's my passion to waste And that's one thing with Jodie

[00:23:50] That I always have, whenever she's voicing Her own thematic element It's me I mean it's us, I just can't help But always side with her So for me it's purely It's not cynical at all I'm not really a fan of it

[00:24:06] But it's a purely emotional film for me I will say that the film has some issues Maybe I would say Like the first 40 minutes I would say It's pretty tough to get through It has blank check issues It has like no one's going to tell them

[00:24:20] That maybe this shouldn't be Two and a half hours long Issues, you know And I don't... I am a person who I'll always go for look He took his big swing and he threw everything in there And I'm like

[00:24:34] The other version of this movie that is noted to Death and you know doesn't have Someone like Zemeckis who can just be like No, there's going to be 14 conversations About whether or not you believe in God Like and that's just going to have to be in the movie

[00:24:46] But Yeah it's got some whatever What you said about cable I just want like I saw this movie like on video when I was a kid But once I was in a pizza place In Manhattan, a little, little pizza I believe it still exists Down on, down on

[00:25:02] Down by City Hall, Griff Because there's a few of them I think that location still exists And contact was playing on TV Like on cable and I literally Like sat there for an hour just like Watching the movie

[00:25:16] It was one of those things where I was just like I don't want to leave because it was probably I think it was like the last half of the movie And I just was like I know what's happening next I'm sticking with this

[00:25:26] In a pizza place on a crappy little like 13 inch TV There was also something just Uniquely kind of sentimental Right about it very much feels like a 90s movie Yes Certain like camera moves, this Alan Sylvesterie score that's tinkling on top Right

[00:25:42] I mean he by the way I would say he's probably The second best actor in this movie Very good performance from Bill But you know what I mean? Like it just has That it lulls you

[00:25:52] And there's a certain point in the movie where it does kick into gear It does kind of like start Driving with a little bit more force And you kind of get hooked after that point No sir There's this weird push And pull with Symecis where there is

[00:26:06] This very sentimental streak To him and there's this very Cynical streak to him And they always coexist in all of his Movies and his most Beloved movies find the right Balance but he talks about And like people work to talk about

[00:26:22] That he's a guy who thrives on conflict Like even just in the process of making The movie and that he Struggled with once he achieved blank check Status that people just trusted Everything he was saying But I also feel like innately

[00:26:36] Because he is such a high level filmmaker Because he started out his career Trying to make Comedies which are inherently kind of One of the most populist Crowd pleasing Genres Even if you're not making a comedy for everyone You're trying to get a very specific

[00:26:54] Response from the audience So you really have to be tuned into the way People are going to receive what you're making And then he just becomes such a successful Filmmaker that he's always at the level of Oh it's the news of the Mechis movie

[00:27:06] Is it going to be a blockbuster And so you feel those weird half Measures where it's like He talks about I mean Sagan and his wife Anderian Developed this as a movie pitch They chopped it around for a long time No one would really bite

[00:27:22] A, it just felt too expensive For a movie that's mostly ideological Without having big action set pieces You were still going to have to spend A lot of money on special effects And B, it just felt like It didn't have the Wham Bam kind of thing

[00:27:36] It was a little too intellectual So then they go fuck it Let's just turn this into a book They write the book and then the book becomes A best seller so then the studios come back Around they go well now that it's proven

[00:27:48] That it's a best seller so then it passes Their hands over and over again for the better Part of a decade George Miller is the guy Who comes very close to making it With Jody Foster and then he eventually I think gives up also partially

[00:28:00] Because he was so Fuckin' done with the studio system After doing Witches of Eastwick I think he just was like There's only so many notes I'll take before I'd rather quit a project I do want to say a couple of Millers things where

[00:28:16] One, he wanted the Pope to be a key supporting character Awesome Which I'd love to see it Fuckin' rad I think there was like a big climax Where there was like a laser light show in the sky That's how Zemeckis kind of like Derisively puts it

[00:28:32] I don't know what that actually means But it sort of sounds like a close encounters thing He said he loved the script And he got to the last page And there was like a bunch of angel aliens Doing light show and he was like no Exactly

[00:28:46] So I guess Zemeckis tears that out But that seems to be part of whatever script Miller was working off of I just want to know how the Pope was involved That's what I just need to know The Bacconi hero

[00:28:56] It was about Jody Foster sticking it to the Pope Fuckin' the Pope It wasn't a priest who loves to fuck He was a Pope who loves to fuck Hot Pope Well there you go, exactly As the original young Pope I found this really good New York Times article

[00:29:12] From the summer of 97 Talking up the sort of Expectations and the fears around Contact And the opening line of it is Robert Zemeckis is scared Not scared simply because his new film Contact is appearing in the most crowded Summer season in movie history

[00:29:32] He's especially scared because it's a 90 million dollar Studio film that was made for Pardon the expression, grownups A film that confronts the tensions between Religion, intellect and faith There's not a dinosaur in sight But the thing that really jumped out to me here is they say

[00:29:46] They're talking about Linda Oates being the producer who saved it Post Blockbuster book Kept on trying to get it made And then it was just stuck in that development hell Period where like If a movie doesn't get made for 10 years Executives start to think That it's cursed

[00:30:06] And then they don't even want to try to revive it It's like when your house is on the market for too long Or whatever, like the house is not Changed but people are just like There's gotta be a problem This just won't work

[00:30:18] But it is a movie that is not without Controversy, right? Doesn't Coppola come after them And try suing them Because he thinks That Sagan developed it with him Yes, right The thing that is wild About that is he sues The Warner Brothers

[00:30:40] Like two years after the movie came out No, no, no A year before the movie comes out Not after And right after Sagan dies Like right after Sagan dies He dies during production Like having to film the movie And the whole point of the suit

[00:30:58] Is like Sagan worked on this with me So it's so weird that he'd like Snuck that suit in right after Sagan died So that like I guess Sagan couldn't be there to be like Yeah You know anyway, it's very weird I believe that lawsuit was dismissed Hmm

[00:31:14] This is the morsel that really jumped out to me So it's 1994 Zemeckis' editing Forest Gump Which no one could have predicted Would be the movie that it was Had the impact that it had He reads it and passes on it And he Said here

[00:31:34] Mr. Zemeckis was offered the film Da da da da da But the plot with its ambiguous ending Left him uneasy, that speaks to maybe The laser light show with the angels And then this is his quote that's so fascinating In the executive suites of Hollywood

[00:31:48] There was the struggle that everyone was having With this movie, which is that it defies convention It's a pedestal picture Said Zemeckis A 46 year old bear of a man Who is alternately friendly and intense The whole movie builds on a pedestal And we don't put anything on top

[00:32:04] We don't have a huge payoff We don't send audiences running and screaming To the parking lot And then by his account, Forest Gump comes out Has this meteoric success And like a year later he goes Fuck it, I'm probably the only one

[00:32:18] Who could actually get that movie made now And he kind of makes it out of a sense Of obligation of like this film should exist And I now have the clout I have the hot hand that I can will it

[00:32:28] To existence and maybe try to solve that ending problem But also doesn't it feel that initial fear is actually true? Absolutely Because here's the thing, it is a movie which goes Wouldn't it be amazing if we heard And then they kind of do all this business about

[00:32:42] Yes we did here And then they kind of go and they're like Well I'm just going to teach a bunch of kids I'm just going to show a bunch of kids how it's done And it doesn't really deliver on the idea

[00:32:52] You know you kind of want to see That movie But where's that movie that we You kind of want to know what contact two is Because right the movie literally ends with them being like Well you've taken your first steps and you're like We've taken our first steps

[00:33:06] We're two and a half hours into this thing It ends up with aliens Playing her father Saying like you have no idea how big this thing is Smell you later And just sending him back I mean the line where they go like so that's it

[00:33:20] And he's like yep, now it's done for billions of years See ya And that feels a little bit And he's right because how can you Structurally what are you supposed to do now Like actually there's a theme park on this planet

[00:33:32] Like let's go ride a bunch of rollercoaster Something like what's he supposed to do Where is it supposed to go I love that about this movie And that's to be clear I think it's great that it is so Unconventional in that way And also like you say Griff

[00:33:48] Made for grownups I don't think that's Inarguable I don't know what a kid would get out of this movie Although I you know whatever Like a younger adult would But rated PG Like you know No swearing really Nothing too intense, sure like some sex But nothing very demure

[00:34:06] Like aimed at the Broadest family audiences But not really for them If that makes sense It's an odd piece, cause it also has that very Shiny Evenly 3 point lit Zemeckis look And the twinkly like Sylvesterie piano Notes which almost feel at odds With what the movie is doing

[00:34:28] Not like he's trying to hedge his bets But he's like can I sell More complicated Questions a movie that doesn't Offer any easy answers If I wrap it in The Zemeckis packaging that audiences Have so accepted now Like the Zemeckis brand was so strong

[00:34:46] People liked the house style And he's sort of like trying to find A way to make a movie that's somewhat ambiguous But I also this is a movie That has like kind of 4 consecutive endings And none of them are Big bang endings

[00:35:00] But it's like if I give him 4 endings That like one resolves Sort of the spiritual aspects One resolves the ideological aspects One resolves it emotionally Will they end up feeling happy But it also watching it made me think About this whole sort of subgenre

[00:35:16] Of like adult space movies That I feel like have made a return In the last decade And you have the ones like Martian And Gravity Well no no I was going to say Martian and gravity are just the survival In space movies right? They're like roller coasters yeah

[00:35:36] Right this interstellar You know I'd say close encounters To a lesser degree because that's a little more Phantasy, arrival absolutely The thinky space movie Interstellar is kind of trying to thread the needle By having a lot of action but yes Yeah but also sort of like

[00:35:52] The thinky first contact movie Like the thinky are we alone movie I even would categorize Even though it's a slightly different piece Prometheus in this territory Where you make this movie that's sort of Like very serious filmmaker Working with big actors

[00:36:08] Making a movie with an elusive marketing campaign Where it's like this has huge sets Huge special effects And this movie is going to grapple With the biggest questions And there's always that mystery box Anticipation of just like Holy fucking shit

[00:36:24] Christopher Nolan's making a movie about are we alone In the universe and the expectations run So high and outside Of arrival which I think Succeeded because it was sort of under the radar I feel like the first response From audiences is always Like pretty loud disappointment

[00:36:40] And then it will grow A sort of second wind appreciation afterwards Because there's sort of just no way For a movie to answer Those questions in a way that is satisfying And when you sit there in a theater opening Night or even you watch it as a kid

[00:36:54] You're just like holy fucking shit Movie starting at the end of this I'm gonna understand how the universe Works. Like I do feel like You stupidly invest this Faith of like this movie is going to single Handedly crack it And the best of these movies try to

[00:37:10] Make it a little more ambiguous And leave you with more questions than answers Because it's impossible to answer Zemeckis himself said like that was his Struggle with Back to the Future too Is he always hated movies about the future

[00:37:22] Cause he was like it's just some guys making some shit up No one fucking knows That's why I wanted to get the future stuff out of the way In the first act And this is an ultimate like nobody knows Movie. Yeah, yeah, I mean there is You know

[00:37:36] As a kid, you know the idea of trying to Wrap your head around the Science versus religion, science versus God and That whole second and central argument of the film And then realizing when she comes back obviously That she's been on this experience that she cannot

[00:37:50] In anywhere prove She cannot in anywhere boil down To science. She cannot come up with Some some or Chemistry that will show everyone What she's experienced and it's Obviously kind of very obvious thing to say As a kid I was so intrigued by that concept

[00:38:08] Because I am an atheist and Have always been and was never raised in a religious Family and I've just never been a part of my upbringing or anything Like that so That dilemma is An interesting dilemma but it's not a dilemma that like Sells tickets

[00:38:24] It's not like a dilemma that makes people want to buy Popcorn. It's fascinating But it's usually contained To like PBS That my dad watched And like National Scientific American articles and things like that Which is why I think these movies get called Dad movies because they are

[00:38:42] You know, you think of them in that way Like Carl Sagan's stuff Is sort of like yeah that's Dad content But this movie is coming out Freakin' July 11th 1997 Like you know this is Warner Brothers big movie for the month Or whatever you know

[00:39:02] We will get to the box office game letter But later but you know Like you said it's a crowded Market out there And Spielberg has Two movies this year Titanic is this year Like this is a no fucking around Year I'm glad it's me because

[00:39:22] It's me for people like me or us But at a 90 million 90 million dollar price tag That's a lot for me Sitting around watching on VHS This is the Linda Oates quote They're talking about how scared they are That they've invested this much money

[00:39:38] Into a movie that doesn't have Like splashy trailer shots And is selling itself on like This is a movie for grown ups And she says this film does not Underestimate the American public If we're right it's fantastic And if we're not well

[00:39:54] It'll just make movie going just a bit more dreary Like it's one of those movies where they were like Let's fucking take the swing And see if we can sell like Big budget intellectual blockbusters But also they sold it You know their T-rex in this movie

[00:40:08] Is that sound right Is that artificial sound of the aliens You know contacting us It's such an interesting idea That you know one of the biggest stars in this movie Is that noise I can't remember the trailer for this movie

[00:40:22] But I'm sure it must be all over that That's a great question actually That sound to title you know Well now that's all you would do right You would structure your whole damn viral campaign The other thing about this movie I think is that the very large array

[00:40:36] Which is a real thing obviously Is like the third character On the poster Very much a part of the trailer Two movie stars in a satellite And it is kind of one of those things Like it's I love Zemeckis' confidence with that

[00:40:52] It's the same thing with using Clinton Like Clinton gives a speech about the Mars rock You guys remember the Mars rock We felt like a rock from Mars you know That had like a worm in it and we're like Life on Mars

[00:41:04] And like Zemeckis sees that and he's like That's all we need, we'll just use this This is great, he's talking about life on other planets They were in talks with Sidney Potia To play the president who is going to be a scripted Character with multiple scenes

[00:41:16] And then Zemeckis sees that conference And he's like we can just use this Like Zemeckis king of the deepfakes The original king of the deepfakes Is like let me just copy paste Cause the White House didn't like that

[00:41:28] They contacted one of brothers after they didn't like it did they? Right and CNN after this Banned their logo from being used in films And banned their anchors from appearing in movies Didn't stop Larry King No, he has the exception In his claws

[00:41:42] He's the one guy they said was allowed to do it Jamie I just want to tell you So the trailer I'm watching it right now The first 40 seconds It's just Jody She's at the very large array She's listening on her headphones Fade to a different shot of her

[00:41:58] At the very large and now it's night time And she's still there, you know, and she's on her car And then 40 seconds in It's the noise And like you see the like wave form Of the noise and it turns into her name So you are correct

[00:42:12] They were like all in on the noise Noise sound But the movie also Like never gets more exciting than that It taps into such a primal thing Of like being a kid and looking at the stars And wondering And the second there's just any proof

[00:42:28] I mean it's part of that thing of just like The mystery of it is always going to be more tantalizing Than any answer That filmmakers can come up with Like the moment when they're deciphering the signal All that stuff where they're figuring out Like oh it's numbers

[00:42:42] It's prime numbers, it's code The first image of it Is a swastika Is of like I just love that It's just incredible because you go like God is this, I guess this means they're pretty hostile Or I guess you know They have a certain ideology that's pretty horrendous

[00:43:00] All that symbol means is suffering and anguish But of course it's noise They're just rebounding the signal I just think that's incredible That's probably my single favorite moment in the entire film It's like such a Carl Sagan idea too

[00:43:14] Where he's like the kind of nerd who had a cocktail party Would be like do you know that's technically The first signal that would have been able to reach Space so if aliens heard something It would be But yes I mean like

[00:43:26] To talk about the 90sness of this movie Excluding Clinton and just like The idea in this movie That would not be the idea now of like Okay okay so there's We learn of alien life what happens And it's like well a bunch of spin doctors

[00:43:40] Like start to figure out what to do with it And like The religious right is involved Like now the movie would just Sling and shit on national television Now it would just be like Nuclear war bruise Like it would be much more apocalyptic

[00:43:56] Whereas in this like a rival You know that's a movie about like We need to talk to each other and we're going to kill each other Right? Like you know that's it And like you know the general Zima Like all that stuff but this is more like

[00:44:08] And you know guess who gets their hands On the cool alien signal A bunch of like slick haired You know Washington lobbyists Like the worst Freaking people in the world It is funny that like the balance between Science and religion And sort of like cultural pride

[00:44:26] Versus like curiosity and all that Sort of stuff like would manifest Were this kind of Contact made tomorrow Especially on election day But The difference is any of those scenes where you have Someone sort of slickly saying like Do we really want

[00:44:44] It's odd to watch a movie like this Where the government isn't going on TV shows And going like eat my fucking ass I'm not letting alien step Fun or our fucking lawn You cock get out of here It's like Air Force One is like that Independence Day obviously

[00:45:02] So many of those 90s movies where it's just like There's this quiet disdain for people who work at the White House That is like is not going to come back around for a while Where you know and like The West Wing pilot that's a couple years from now

[00:45:15] Like that's another one that revolves all around Like well the religious right is on our ass Like it just feels like Now just very quaint to think of them as Like just to sort of you know Flying the suit, flying the ointment And Rob Lowe flips

[00:45:31] Like this is Rob Lowe coming off of his 90s Where he's mostly playing comedy assholes Right where he rebuilt his career as playing like The dickhead in a bunch of Lord Michael movies Wayne Swirls, Tommy Boy, Austin Powers And then the Austin Powers sequels

[00:45:47] And then it's like he does this in the middle This is sort of an outlier and then he ends off The decade with West Wing and now he becomes like The guy in the White House Yeah he's George Stephanopoulos Yeah anyway but yes, contact

[00:46:01] One of the other things about this movie that is a little bit Confusing now watching it as an adult is Why is McConaughey in these rooms? Tolerate Do you know why is he in these places? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me

[00:46:22] There's a scene where Jodie has clearly cracked something I can't remember what bit she's cracked But maybe it's the blueprints or something She's found the blueprints And then she and you know And she's kind of saying this is what we think it is

[00:46:33] We don't know, I don't want to like set up any lawn bells Or whatever Angela Bass is kind of shutting her down Because she's speaking, you know, she's She just needs to kind of keep her quiet basically And Tom Skerrick kind of takes over

[00:46:43] And then McConaughey walks in And just like takes over the meeting Yes Just like oh here he is Here he is, we need to listen to this guy Like this guy has nothing to do with this Didn't find and didn't discover shit

[00:46:56] And he's just going to sit down and take over This fucking meeting It doesn't make, I just don't understand He's just like a Christian philosopher Like I don't think he ever announces like Oh, I'm, yeah, I'm staffed here or whatever

[00:47:10] Well his role is technically spiritual advisor to the president I just don't think that's actually a thing Is it? Well it's like I mean, I feel like certainly There's always this feeling the president needs to have Some like theological counsel

[00:47:24] But what they wouldn't be is this cool and this chill You know? Sure Right, it's like fucking like Falwell Jr. has Trump's ear But it's not some guy like this who's like I don't know, let's consider all positions I definitely don't fucking think he'd be late to meetings

[00:47:40] No, absolutely not Cashily strolling in Yeah Fuck, send the alarm clock Right, he'll be some fucking fire and brimstone guy Yeah It's an odd, I mean that also speaks to why he doesn't Totally fit in this movie Like the character is undercooked

[00:47:57] And he's not quite right for as an actor I also think it speaks to like Jamie What you were saying about the inherent like Appeal of Jodie Foster is she's this movie star Who is just like all focus, all determination, all business Especially for a female movie star

[00:48:15] To make that big of a career being like a fucking professional Who rarely is dealing with like romance or comedy or charm Her whole 90s Makes you show unique Right 10, 2000s Like her whole, I mean it's and this is the

[00:48:28] She makes Anna and the King two years after this For three years before she made now You know, she's fully in that post silence of the lambs phase Where she's like, I make a movie if I want to Yeah Maybe And then like after Anna the King

[00:48:44] It's three more years to panic room You know, like it's she's And like you say, I feel like she's so careful About the roles she picks She's always these serious intelligent interesting people Who are very self-possessed Who are, you know, like

[00:49:02] Do not have to rely on right like some romantic interest Or anything like that And I like that this movie basically starts with her Sleeping with Matthew McConaughey Who is at the time like one of the prettiest boys in Hollywood He's the next Paul Newman

[00:49:18] Like People magazine is like we called it This guy's got the talent and the raw handsomeness He's the guy And then just like piecing out on him And he spends the rest of the movie like sabotaging her career As alien ambassador because he likes her

[00:49:32] So fucked up that he does that It's so fucked that he does that Yeah, absolutely They should send him to a blog after that scene It's like insane Your spiritual advisor to the president You're pulling shit like that

[00:49:47] You slept with her once and you're saying that you sabotaged her hearing So that she could maybe get a chance for seconds She didn't call you back Take a fucking hint Oh my god Sorry, sorry, hate it This fucking New York Times article Which I'm gonna keep referencing

[00:50:05] Because it's like a treasure trove But it's called Using a Big Budget to Ask Big Questions And fosters big quote here She says the idea of someone searching for some kind of purity Searching for something out there that she can't find here

[00:50:19] And that's something that was very, very close to myself I process everything using my head first I cope through my head I cope with the disappointments in my life and the pains of my life By using my intellect That doesn't make me less vulnerable

[00:50:32] But I do a good job of hiding it And that's what this woman is about And you're like man, right Perfect fit for this project Perfect fit for the tone Perfect fit for the character And McConaughey is in the zone where he's like

[00:50:44] Everyone tells me that I can sell anything Like he's just like He's like, oh man, I'm charming as fuck I think he makes sense for this movie In that McConaughey has that classic sort of Just like handsome hippie energy So you get, it's just that the characters

[00:50:59] Like we've been saying it's just an odd fit for Like we found alien intelligence in the universe Let's assemble the crack team Let's get NASA Let's get the military Let's get the White House Oh and call McConaughey What's he, 32 years old? Bring him in He should come in

[00:51:19] The guy who wrote the secret Yeah, he wrote the book about how it's nice to love God But also kiss Like yeah, he should be in on this one Yeah, let's have him guide strategy That's the thing that's just whatever It's also a Carl Sagan concept Yeah

[00:51:34] Sagan's a wacky guy I think he wanted to wrestle with like I'm a man of science like But this is such a huge part of American thought And it's such a, you know The implications of life on other worlds are so staggering From a religious, you know

[00:51:49] Like I get what he wants to do with it And also the movie needs to have some sort of emotional center Sagan's aware of that And Zemeckis says that's a big thing he latched onto Where it felt like some screwball comedy dynamic Of like Ninochkov

[00:52:02] Like oh it's two people who are so physically attracted to each other But have completely opposed ideologies But the movie just has so much more on its plate That those scenes are so undercooked And the two of them, you know I think Foster's great I think McConaughey's okay

[00:52:17] But they just fundamentally don't have chemistry together So then every 30 minutes when it circles back around To being like a linchpin of the film You're like fuck off, this is not important The movie's excelling when she's solving problems Right? When she's cracking it

[00:52:35] When she's discovering whenever she's on the hunt Is when the movie's really moving And as soon as it's, as you say, it slows down For one of those kinds of existential conversations That hasn't, you know Yeah, sure, and it has to have this sense of loss

[00:52:54] Or a love that wasn't quite reciprocate Like none of that is just not reading at all So it just kind of, it really slows everything down Again, and then you have to build it back up They don't really have flirty energy

[00:53:06] They do have, like you get that they want to talk to each other But it's not really, they're not flirty I guess is the best way to put it She's also seven years older than him Which is rare for Hollywood anytime But especially in the 90s

[00:53:20] So that's kind of fun Like, and it is fun to consider Just the immensity of fosters stardom Especially at this point Like right where it feels like she's Kind of starting to drift away from Hollywood Like you're saying, like that quote

[00:53:37] You gave us griff where it feels like Most things across her desk, she's like, no thank you I guess she's also directing at this point Yeah, this is the time here where she's like I prefer directing to acting

[00:53:47] I don't really want to act in that many movies anymore And then she spends years trying to get directing projects Off the ground, but also not taking acting jobs Wait, what's the, is it flora plum? Nor a plum? What's the plum move? Right, flora plum was the one

[00:54:01] That she spent like a decade trying to make Yes, that was the one that was with It was like set in the circus Claire Danes, Russell Crowe And it just like never happened, right Anyway And then she ended up making the David Sims biopic Money Monster Go

[00:54:21] Griffin, I forgot She directed that She directed Money Monster A film I saw and reviewed A film about hate And didn't even hate Launching our Patreon page Yeah, exactly God, I forgot she directed that That is a weird project Directed the beaver

[00:54:41] That's like, I know she directed the beaver But like, money monster is like the last George Clooney movie Like I know now he has this The movie coming on Netflix, you know Which he's in Which that's great that he directed

[00:54:55] But that might be the last movie that he was ever in That was just like a star vehicle that he signed on to Is that post tomorrowland? It's post tomorrow, it's a year after tomorrowland It's the year 2016 he's in Hail Caesar Which he's fantastic in And Money Monster

[00:55:11] Anyway, contact, contact He's also in gravity, of course He is? Yeah, secondary role So good in gravity Really good That is one of his hits that Griffin always forgets about Totally But it's like a perfect example of that's him just being like

[00:55:27] I understand exactly what my power as a movie star is I'm here in service of the film Like I remember my dad not having seen gravity Saying to me, I can't believe Clooney isn't getting nominated for gravity Cause he just assumed like here's this movie that's a blockbuster

[00:55:41] Sandra Bullock's getting nominated in every category Clooney's beloved And I was like you don't understand how selfless Clooney is in gravity Yeah, he's not like dominating his chunk of the movie at all Like he's not trying to steal it It's support work

[00:55:54] But he's using his like megawatt charisma In support of the movie Yeah That's just example of like a movie that is using a similar dynamic Of like the guy is more casual and funny And the woman is more steely and focused And like emotionally bottled in space

[00:56:13] But Clooney I just think has greater command It's weird, the McConney thing We talked about the same thing with Amistad Where you're like he's not bad He's just like one step in over his head He just doesn't totally understand his own effect yet

[00:56:31] And directors don't totally get him yet And then it takes like 15 years for him to totally come into his power Yeah, he's just kind of feels too big for the movie in a way It just kind of can't really handle him

[00:56:45] That space needs to be filled by someone slightly more insular I think Cause I think then also like that chemistry will be much more interesting Because she's a little bit of an insular character too I mean she's someone who's dealt with loss

[00:56:56] She lost her mother, she lost her father pretty horrendously After that point she's clearly like everyone else of her life And you know she's trying to make contact beyond the stars Is having trouble making contact on the ground With people in front of her

[00:57:09] And like that never really kind of Never really explores that between the two of them I think that's interesting ground to probe for characters That's the other heart of the movie is the dead dad And like I know people like to you know whatever roll their eyes

[00:57:24] Because it's such a common script trope But I like that trope And I have no problem with that trope And especially when it's this well executed And it you know it hooks you Zemeckis sort of like digs that in really early That there's plenty there

[00:57:40] Like I don't need necessarily need McConaughey But I don't mind McConaughey as her foil I just the movie just can't sell me on the moment at the end And he's like you know the secret other reason is that

[00:57:53] I really like you where I'm just like nah I don't think so I don't think either of them buy this Like he'd be okay if he's just floating around I also really fucking hate that you know

[00:58:06] That the last line is given to him before he gets in the limo Yeah That just really bothers me I don't know why You know and it's a very touching like I love her in the car And I love her reaching out and she's so good physically

[00:58:19] And her eyes are so connective Without Jody Foster's eyes As much as it's about anything Yes I agree So and I just I really dislike that that moment is given To him and I know it's a reactionary moment And she sells it and kills it and everything

[00:58:36] But she's so undermined in the rest of the movie Constantly by Tom Skerritt By the president, by all the you know Angela Besset All these people That it just you know so James Woods obviously It just feels like in that last moment I want to have

[00:58:50] Her say her fucking thing and walk out and drive off into the sunset Without him having to qualify her You know It's one of those Spielberg-y things of like I don't trust that the audience got it I want to underline everything as directly as possible

[00:59:04] Let's give it to the guy who's light and charming Rather than the woman who's been sort of like Brazen the entire film I do think watching it like I feel like I'd like this movie a full half star more How many stars do you like overall?

[00:59:21] I'd give it like I'd say a 3 out of 4 Okay Right or like a 3.5 out of 5 This is like a 9 to me Geez this is like a 4.5 to me Well I'm saying it would be a 9 for me If it ended with

[00:59:39] Not literally but the final note it ended on Was her hearing where she attests That it happened but she doesn't have any proof Like that's the most interesting lingering thought of the movie The ending should be this She does this thing with James Woods

[00:59:58] In whatever that testimony that she's giving Which is fucking and she crushes it And she's brilliant Incredible I watched her last night and was like I'm gonna cry She's brilliant But then it should end with Angela Bassett saying What's interesting about it is It recorded 18 hours of it

[01:00:13] That is interesting isn't it Black I would also accept that I think the McConaughey Given the moral out of the car doesn't work for me Yeah right Woods's reptile face in that scene And in every scene that he's in is so good

[01:00:29] One of my greatest conflicts in my entire life Is that James Woods is like one of my Five favorite actors of all time I love him so much And like especially in this 90s run Where he's just popping up And he like Casino You know Nixon

[01:00:47] He'll just give you 20 minutes And like play a super asshole But then like in the Virgin Suicides Play like a genuinely kind of sweet befuddled guy Like he was such a versatile actor I know he barely works in He really just doesn't work anymore right

[01:01:05] He's all in on Twitter Like he has a shadow band Yeah he's in frame He's only made a movie since White House Down Which is seven years ago I love his reaction to the swastika When it comes clear on the monitor He just goes okay And walks away

[01:01:24] I love that reaction You know what I feel like the ending Should be one of two things It should be her giving the testimony And then they find the tape And it lingers with the question of Are they ever gonna release this

[01:01:38] It's still sort of a leap of faith thing It should be her giving the testimony And then it cuts to the ending With her teaching the kids But I feel like you either want it to be She was never able to prove it

[01:01:50] But she's devoted the rest of her life To trying to convince other people To ask the big questions Or it should be she couldn't prove it And we don't know whether or not The government decides to back her up We're talking about the end of the movie

[01:02:04] But she would be a messianic figure to people And there's that hint of it And I love that too And I just love that little implication Of like there's that available to her And she has gone more the path of Like well I'm just gonna do my work

[01:02:18] And like give You know like I'm just gonna be over here The thing with the kids just kind of feels like Something so monumental Has happened to the world Into humanity that just for her To suddenly be doing that It just feels like it kind of undermines

[01:02:34] What we've just experienced Two and a half hours or whatever it is That we've said through It only works for me if it happens Under the guise of she's been completely Discredited you know Like this is her one hell Mary pass Sure

[01:02:50] It's the lack of confidence in having all four Of those endings of like the testimony McConaughey offering the moral The discovery of the tape And then her of the kids It just makes it kind of messy I guess if they'd said

[01:03:04] We can't believe we're adding more scenes to this Fucking movie but if there was a scene where It's like you clearly know That publicly everyone knows She's full of shit Everyone knows that it's fucking bullshit She's like they lie, it's just a bunch of more

[01:03:18] Government lies, lies, lies, whatever That then her teaching to these kids Is like keep looking, keep looking for the stars That feels meaningful But yeah that feels don't stop believing No that's the thing It feels like you're watching Your own adventure endings

[01:03:34] Like it's like those two scenes would work together This one would work if this one was cut out But it's just I think they're awareness of they don't Have the pedestal, like they don't have The thing in the pedestal that's going to totally Satisfy people

[01:03:48] I've just realized we've gotten so far into this without mentioning Jake Busey We gotta talk Busey How the fuck, how was that? Is he not come up? I mean Well guys He is like using the very large array Or using the Irocebo Observatory He's just like Only

[01:04:10] We'll just use Jake Busey He will communicate everything you need to know Just the sight of him With long blonde hair That's it, that'll shake America To its core I wonder what the breakdown Looks like for this Where it's like A religious like cult leader

[01:04:30] Needs to look fucking weird Audience needs to remember him After limited screen time What about that scene where You know he's in the Whatever the machine is and he's In disguise Exactly, and she's looking at the monitor

[01:04:46] And people who are listening are not going to see what I'm doing But I'm just going to, you know, he kind of does this He does The world's longest Turn to camera And he moves towards it Stares down the lens finds his light It's what Jamie did

[01:05:02] He passes his eyes across the screen Like a snake Like and he's smiling Like he's like I'm going to get away With it, like a great plan It's like a supernatural evil But he's barely in the movie Makes such a fucking impact That's a thing, he understands

[01:05:20] Does he have a line? Like does he say anything? When they think the Contact the launch And he's yelling He doesn't have dialogue with anybody Yelling is a line David Yelling is a line But it's not like He's like I'm here You know, there's not that moment

[01:05:42] But like The sight of him you're like Oh I know why he's there And I don't like it To just play by play And blowing up By the way my wife is just like Didn't that cost like a trillion dollars

[01:05:58] Like I've been talking about how expensive this thing is He blows it up in five seconds But like he's on the camera and she's like He's not supposed to be there Everyone get out of here He's like what's going on Jody The guy with like the bleached eyebrows

[01:06:12] And that really creepy like sex offender wig Oh that one, yes Oh okay Like try and get in touch with Scarrett And he's just like slowly removing a trigger From his pocket while everyone's just like Well wait what's going on though Wait walk me through it

[01:06:28] He's still just making snake eyes at everybody This maybe has inexcusable reasons For people showing up in certain places At certain times It's kind of Insane really I do love the sort of like Cyclical nature of her relationship with Scarrett Where he keeps on popping up as being

[01:06:46] Like the figure of obstruction for her Cause that just feels so true to like The bureaucracy Of government Of trying to work in science Around a culture that doesn't really respect it It's like he becomes the figure head Of the guy who's always one step above her

[01:07:02] Limiting her I mean that's another one of my favorite scenes In the movie is when they're right before the launch And he's just like look I actually agree with you It sucks that 90% of our country will not Swallow anything unless we project Some sense of religious purity

[01:07:20] I wish I could give the answer you could But if I did I wouldn't be wearing this Jumpsuit smelly later That's because he said he believes in God In his own testimony when she hasn't Right that's right Which is also such a good scene

[01:07:34] Like and that scene is kind of only Undone by McConaughey's performance is so Odd in it because what he's trying To earmark is the This is a crisis of romance for him Right Which we haven't bought into That scene is so great

[01:07:52] Where you're just like okay she understands the challenge She understands how like diverse the Candidates are going to be How like you know strong And varied this board is of the selectors But she makes it to that Hearing she's nailing everything

[01:08:06] And then they ask her that one question And it's like here's a person who fundamentally cannot Lie she is incapable Of bullshitting and giving some wish She wants the answer about her belief In order to get the job But the second they ask her she's fucked

[01:08:20] She knows she's fucked But don't worry because they built Two well that's the thing it's like So my wife's never seen this movie She's why forky my wife forky Sorry And she's like oh so she doesn't Get to go to space and I'm like now

[01:08:36] She's you know she'll go to space She's Jody Foster she gets a good space She's like anyway Tom Scarecrow got to go Roll the credit see it like you know But then he comes back and he's like yeah there's aliens

[01:08:46] It was cool like I'll see you guys later They look like Jody Foster's dad For some reason They said this is the form we chose to take We thought she was going to make it It looked like the guy from the rock Not Ed Harris

[01:09:00] But you know the other guy He's like really locked in He's like the dad slash therapist And chumscrubber He's like But anyway And forky was just like I mean it makes sense There's no way she like a lady would Get to do that

[01:09:20] It would be too easy if she got to do it Like you know especially at this point In time at this you know like you know It's just like no Jody Foster can't They can't just be like now you're the lady You're going to do it

[01:09:32] They're going to pick Tom Scarecrow It just makes sense that the congressional panel The only way she ends up getting a seat Is like crazy Fucking liberal Rupert Murdock in space Using anti-gravity to fight his cancer Is like fuck you

[01:09:48] There's a second one and I bought the company Pack your bags What a bizarre Second act twist it is Because I love the original The first John Hurt scene The first scene too He's like yeah I'm on mirror now Yeah no I'm floating Exclusively floating at this point

[01:10:08] I love John Hurt John Hurt's career I worked with John Hurt on Snowpiercer And he was fucking amazing He was just like You know he was that guy He was the guy sitting on benches Smoking telling stories of him You know he was younger years

[01:10:26] With his other actors that he was with Simon Just phenomenal stories And we were just enamored Everyone was enamored by him He just looks incredible In Snowpiercer He just looks like a ragman Like his face is so perfect And his beard is so bushy

[01:10:46] I love his look in Snowpiercer Yeah he's phenomenal And he's great in this actually It's a real character In there He doesn't have a lot to do But he really makes an impact He's great He's fully a wensy bad He is in As I'm sure you all remember

[01:11:08] The Harry Potter movies As the wand guy It's the 40th most important part In Harry Potter Is the fucking wand guy And that scene in the first Harry Potter movie Which is not a very good movie Like the Chris Columbus movie I advise people to go back

[01:11:26] Hurt is so locked into it And it's kind of an important scene Because it's like Harry's getting his wand It's going to be magical I would say it's sort of Columbus' best decision As a director on that movie Is we have to hire someone super over-qualified

[01:11:40] For the wand scene Because the wand scene is like a real turnkey For the whole universe That's hurt He's very much a wensy bad I'd argue never This is a movie that reunites him With Tom Scarrett Is it the first time since Alien? I think so Great question

[01:12:02] Yeah, you're right It's interesting that Two crew members on a sci-fi movie Again But you so differently that you never really Processed like He's using two alien cast members It doesn't feel sort of clever I read Zemeckis said That the conception Of The character

[01:12:26] Why I'm forgetting his name now Haddon That it was like What if Bill Gates went kind of crazy 40 years from now Like his thing was just sort of like What if a guy had that much money And just sort of went off the reserve

[01:12:42] Visually it feels like he's very much modeled After Murdoch I don't know if I'm just bringing that And it's sort of like the shiny head of it But he just kept bringing Murdoch for me But what he ends up being is sort of like

[01:12:54] This more gentile old man Sort of Morally level Version of Elon Musk Like it does feel like this was very much predicting a sort of A type of figure That would come into culture of just like The guy who was like, I made a billion dollars

[01:13:12] I'm gonna sol-shit myself Working on the career All his hysteria, right? Because remember she's come into his One of his offices and he's seen her over the surveillance camera And he's kind of He's made that crack decision In that moment to give her the funding, right?

[01:13:28] That kind of extends her work in New Mexico For however long So even though he's like a crackpot Kind of eccentric, he sees something In her He sees a thing that I'm talking about Jodie as an actress, he sees this spirit He sees this conviction

[01:13:44] So that when there is this other huge trillion Dollar machine that's gonna send Human beings to a completely different dimension To talk to aliens on a Pensacola beach Yeah He understands that her moral Crack-a-jack compass Is In the right place He knows that and he can see

[01:14:04] He's more emotional than anyone in the White House More emotional than anyone based in science And he can identify Her as the right candidate And I love that that's his observation to this movie He chooses her Right, because he's also like He's one of these like

[01:14:20] Cowboy outlaw billionaires Who's like, I trust my gut It's about your gumption And she's there making her talking points To these committees And they find ways to discredit her Because she's not doing the razzle-dazzle She's not saying the thing she's supposed to say

[01:14:36] And he recognizes the way she's saying it Like the moral character And fortitude That it belies It's great that scene where she goes and pitches to his company And she's kind of bombing the meeting Because she's not like Putting on the show enough

[01:14:52] And then you see the camera pivot And then they get the phone call And they're like, apparently you've gotten yourself a deal Yeah, he says you have the money And then she looks at the camera and she says, thanks I love because that whole speech is like

[01:15:06] Yeah, nuts right? Like airplanes, nuts Flying to the moon, nuts And I love the way that she's You know, suggesting That something that this crazy is actually Able to be something that we should do And that we should... You know, I mean, SETI search for extra-terrestrial intelligence

[01:15:25] They try and kind of make it cool I guess with like all those... I mean, I guess they don't try and make it cool They kind of cast a weird, misfit collection of people In her, you know, in the research facility Neither dishes and stuff

[01:15:37] But my other question is that I guess it's a two-prong thing Just because she listens to a bunch of dishes Does that make her a viable candidate To go through different dimensions and go to space? This is the thing

[01:15:51] And don't you need to be put through like rigorous testing? Well, this is the thing though The implications of this movie are great So... And it's not like we haven't been talking about the entire movie But the plot is essentially She hears a signal

[01:16:03] She works at the very, very large array You know, and she sleeps with Matthew McConnay Back when she works at the RSC Bobserver And she's looking for life The government shuts her thing down She starts her own outlaw, setty group A lot of talk about funding

[01:16:17] Yes, so much funding The first chunk of the movie is a lot of funding It's a funding thriller She gets this signal from Vega Which is a real star in the sky And eventually, first they decipher the Hitler That's being bounced back at them The 36 Olympics

[01:16:33] Then they decipher this code And then with John Hertz' help She kind of turns it into like a cube map For making a spaceship machine Right? Right The aliens have given us blueprints To make something We don't understand what it is Or what it will do

[01:16:48] When it becomes this question Of should we follow these instructions? And the government's reaction Is definitely concerned And definitely bring in Fucking McConnay, you know To wear a scarf Like and look at whatever But like, pretty quickly And this movie which I like Just makes time jumps

[01:17:06] Without worrying about it At a certain point Yeah, yeah Pretty quickly it's just like Yeah, whatever, let's build it I don't know And then like, and definitely is not like We'll get our top astronaut on this Someone will sit in it I guess

[01:17:22] While we drop it into a wormhole When they're turning on the machine And it's going crazy And it's flashing And then eventually It basically pulls Everything close And then there's that sort of shot Of everything kind of stretching Like why is no one like

[01:17:39] Wait, is this just a fucking nuclear Is this just a weapon That's gonna kill us? Why did we build this? Turn it off No one there is concerned That's what I like about the movie I mean, I grew up She doesn't even wear a helmet, Griffin

[01:17:56] No, she just wears this There's no oxygen going into that fucking thing She doesn't want to have a fucking harness She doesn't want to chair All of this stuff out of it Yeah She doesn't even want to chair I'll plant my feet firmly on the ground

[01:18:09] She doesn't want to chair She really doesn't I don't want any fucking comfort On this journey, okay Both of my parents are dead Right, and also like It wasn't in their fucking blueprints And it's like the blueprints From the people who sent us a fucking hit

[01:18:23] The blueprints are literally just It's just a person doing like A sort of Vitruvian man pose Inside like a fucking, you know Cubics or Conia and that's it Yeah It's like, yeah, drop it in We'll handle the rest And everyone's like, yeah, I don't know

[01:18:38] We could spend a trillion dollars on this Like that's fine Like I definitely, I was a kid Who fantasized about being An astronaut A thing that retrospect seems Absolutely bananas with my temperament But I was just like, oh yeah That's like the ultimate job

[01:18:54] I would want to be like an astronaut Like I was always fascinated by Space travel And the idea of like searching for Extraterrestrial life and stuff But I always struggled with actual Hard science Like I've only ever been able to process Science through fiction

[01:19:10] I like flunked out of every science class I ever took But the idea of like I also was a kid where I didn't grow up atheist But I think for very early age I did not really buy Into any organized religion I think just out of the like

[01:19:28] Everyone telling me that this is what it is I was very spiritual as a kid But I was more sort of like Abstractly curious About all of these things And my, you know, I was the first kid My parents I think tried more To raise me with

[01:19:44] Judaism because I was the first strike by my sister They barely gave a shit anymore And it was just sort of like the perfunctory Like ceremonial aspects Of things rather than any feel Like deep investment in faith But watching this movie

[01:20:01] It does like hit a lot of the pillars Of what I sort of Bounce in between Where it's just like this idea Of wanting to only believe In things that are absolutely Based in fact That can be like quadruple verified And also needing to have

[01:20:19] Some sort of willful Naivete and optimism Because the whole thing is like You know, everything that doesn't Make sense in this movie of like Would they really hire this person to do that Would they not? Is like all this clash And this contrast and even you get down

[01:20:35] To her character where she's like I'm a numbers gal it's just about numbers For me that's all I care about Matthew Connaghy I'm gonna fuck you one time Because it's been six weeks I should probably fuck you one time The girl's gotta get it but then

[01:20:49] Like back to science but fundamentally The whole time she has to keep on Saying that this pursuit is worthwhile Without evidence like it takes So long in the movie and so long In her life for her to get Any positive response for all

[01:21:03] The work that she's been putting into it Well there is this kind of really Interesting moment when she gets to Vega and she sees David Moss On the beach and she kind of Reacts as though she's in heaven Yeah, yeah

[01:21:17] Which would imply that she believes in a god She kind of believes that she's experiencing A kind of miracle and there's a kind of Very interesting little shift in her performance Where she goes no Occam's Reza She goes they don't want to scare me Right, right

[01:21:31] You see that scientist click in It's a very subtle beat It's a very short little moment where She kind of goes oh my god I believe And then she's reminded no science Think You know that Bedrock of your whole belief

[01:21:51] Occam's Reza that simplest thing has to be true And science and math and Numbers come in and she suddenly She suddenly shifts and she knows She's not with her own father which again In a way is a kind of loss for her

[01:22:03] For a sex you want to believe That it's really him and she goes I don't believe in that, I believe in none But wouldn't it there is the argument for a sex For her character she goes wouldn't it be nice

[01:22:13] If you just did believe that you could believe It was actually your father maybe In the aspect of the movie where I think Zemeckis Uses an impressively light Touch of just like Morse is really Effective in those opening scenes so he makes

[01:22:25] The impact in your mind he stays there As some sort of like emotional Kind of like center Of the movie and they don't Underline this so much but it does Feel like subtextually Here's this girl who like lost her mother In childbirth lost a father

[01:22:41] Young he raised her With this interest in space And the skies and this pursuit of like truth And knowledge and what could possibly be out there And like to some degree She is out there listening All the time because she wants to hear His voice

[01:22:57] Like you get the sense that she would never admit it Out loud but her greatest Belief is that somehow she could Find some way to communicate with her father Again which goes against hard science You know and as you said She gets that moment

[01:23:11] Not if you've seen frequency That's the thing She had seen frequency You know you can talk to your dead Dead What a potent idea that movie is We should do a hoblet miniseries I had to look that up I'm sorry to admit this

[01:23:29] But I had to look up the director for you You had to look up Gregory Hoblet You know what hoblet it would be Primal fear, fallen, hearts war Fracture? You got to call him Farrell in there Fracture which is It's about You know I killed my wife

[01:23:47] That's Hopkins and Gosling and he goes I killed my wife, I want you to get me off It's not the one that's about the jinx though That's a different No that's all good things And then untraceable Which is a classic In the internet murder Much like fear.com

[01:24:05] Or the net It's like oh the internet www.die.com Is that the one Where the poster is Diane Lane And then there's a clicker On her mouse A little mouse cursor Let's do it, untraceable Anyway Yes no The Unreality Of the scene with her father Is Heartbreak

[01:24:37] And also like mesmerizing And obviously it's incredibly exciting for her But it is I love the weird tragedy of They're doing this to make her comfortable And it works but also She has that moment But then you sort of like

[01:24:53] She moves her hands and you're like oh it's fake I like that Zemeckis makes it look Kind of like beyond real Oh right of course Like this note She was right all along like you said Jamie This is like a hologram She can barely understand it

[01:25:09] It's also fascinating That at this point in his career There's all this shit where the waves are moving Backwards The lighting doesn't match Where the source is It's brightly lit, there is no sun Right, he does all these things Consciously to make it look unnatural

[01:25:27] To create that unease And it works Within a decade Zemeckis is like Look it's photo real, I did it on my computer And it's photo real and everyone's like No way this creeps me out Like it's the opposite I only realized just this last time

[01:25:43] Watching is that she draws The beach in the beginning Yes, that's right I didn't catch that until this last viewing part I like little things like that There's a lot of Spielberg nods in this We're gonna need a bigger antenna being one of them

[01:25:57] It feels very similar to the ending of AI For me too It's like a happy ending We recreated a facsimile A facsimile of your parent In order to make you comfortable But it's all underlined With the creepiness of This is programming Right, and AI

[01:26:17] AI is the best because You're finally here And the alien's like Sure I'm finally here And he's like great I can die Right I want my mother to die with me Here's the last DNA strain That exists of your mother on the continuum Of time and space

[01:26:37] We can pluck it and give you 24 hours But there's the thing In this where Morse is switching back And forth between Speaking in the voice of the alien Collective and speaking in the voice of her dad And he'll say one thing That's sort of just very objective

[01:26:53] About this is what you have to do This is how we operate Mother's eyes or whatever And she's so good at playing the like I've waited my entire life To hear my dad say something like that again But also this is really weird and creepy And not real

[01:27:09] This is like data telling them That they should say that That's a thing my father would say in this simulation Yeah, I mean you know The other thing is It does remind me a lot of sounds of the lambs Because so much of sounds of the lambs

[01:27:23] Is her flashback of her seeing her own father's funeral You know there's a scene with her Where her father kind of comes back from work It just feels so canon For Jodie Foster this kind of stuff She's just right on the money for me I never saw Maverick

[01:27:37] I've never seen Maverick I need to see Maverick There's a lot of her work that I actually haven't I didn't see Nell There's a lot of her work that I haven't seen But she's Right in the pocket with this stuff Emotional Loss You know the conviction

[01:27:57] This spirit, this sense of duty I have to do this I'm going to prove that I can do this You know I guess a lot of it It's kind of metamorphosis Sounds of lambs is all about metamorphosis This is kind of very similar

[01:28:11] I have to do this thing and I'm going to do it And she does I find these scenes so Effective and when she doesn't You know I think you'd like Nell because it is kind of just That's just the Jodie Foster Show for what you're talking about

[01:28:27] Just absolute intensity And sincerity and like very It's not Griff have you seen Nell? It's not a great movie It's an interesting movie but like It's really, it's just all her I want to tell you guys something In the book I've been sort of reading about the differences

[01:28:49] Between the movie and the book When you get cancer He goes into space orbit Bakes his death is cryogenically frozen And shoots himself into space Being like Whenever the aliens come they'll wake me up Like he's even more bananas in the book Essentially I just like that

[01:29:09] What is there anything else? Major I mean we didn't, we talked About this look the shot You can look at it on YouTube It's great we've talked about it in other episodes But it is a power I love the use of it Her dad is dead

[01:29:25] The world is backwards all of a sudden Like I think it is the perfect kind Of Zemeckis Bit of trickery Where he's sort of like Showing off but it has an emotional purpose Like I'll Stick up for that shot any day

[01:29:41] It's also like you need that shot to be flashy In the same way that Jake Busey's Face is flashy It is this thing that kind of drives the rest of her life In that problem solving that single minded Like I'm gonna figure things out way

[01:29:54] Where she's forever haunted by the idea of like If I had also kept the pills downstairs What he made in time Like it crystallizes those final seconds of that run To the cabinet of like is that the time that she lost

[01:30:08] That she could have used to save him Because the priest outside of her house says It's just kind of God's will Which is the beginning of her going well That makes no sense to me I don't like that She responds which is like well actually

[01:30:22] Science would say if he just had the pills 10, 20 seconds, 2 minutes earlier He would have survived So it kind of sets that all game up really well This is from that New York Times piece Zemeckis said I was raised a Catholic On the south side of Chicago

[01:30:36] And I felt I had to undo a lot of serious damage But as I was getting older I began coming off my absolutely young arrogant agnostic beliefs I was thinking more about coming in terms of human spirituality But without the judgments and indoctrination

[01:30:48] That come from being in the church I've tried to come to peace with it And it's no longer a demon in my life Like that's an interesting outlook For a guy making this movie at that moment Right It's a movie that every time after I finish watching

[01:31:02] I go you know what maybe I should be Maybe I should be a little bit more open to the idea of Spirituality Maybe I should be It's so hard not to Give in to the romanticism of it Like Whenever I do

[01:31:16] I give into it in the most abstract way possible Like I start just sort of spinning off into like different thoughts Outside of what is commonly perpetuated And they'll always come crashing back down to like But if that were the case Then why isn't this happening

[01:31:31] Why has this happened and whatever I'll like back it up with You know well-earned skepticism Your cynical self comes out In the end But it is like I feel I don't know the things Zemeckis is talking about Is that like sort of as a child

[01:31:46] It's easy to believe Especially if you're raised with it As you start developing a slightly more adult brain In your teenage years in your 20s It's very easy to fact check it And then I do think there's a point in like You know

[01:31:59] The later areas of your life Where you come back around to it You're like I just need fucking comfort now Like I've spent so much time being angry And trying to change everything around me I would rather reinvest In the idea of something taking care of me

[01:32:13] I don't see myself getting to that point But it also I don't know it is compelling and it's like It's such compelling territory to make A movie about For all these sort of first contact movies Very few of them deal with that Tension Because it is like

[01:32:34] If aliens exist Why wouldn't we have heard from them by now Isn't that as foolhardy As believing that God exists Even though we haven't seen proof of him You know Outside of potato chips or whatever you want to believe I believe you're referring to the The Fermi paradox

[01:32:53] Yes I'm gonna add a little bit of spice To the rest of this recording I have 16% battery left Ooh And I can't plug it in Because the mic is plugged into that That's fine We are almost done We have an interesting dilemma guys

[01:33:10] I've been looking at it incrementally as we've been going And I figured 16% is a good time to tell you I appreciate it No, that's fine Can you lower the brightness on your screen Maybe a little bit I can barely see it Yeah

[01:33:25] As it's been going I've been like 20% do I see it? But then on 20% We were talking about really big themes Really intense personal themes We gotta keep all this I can't interrupt him on that But I thought 16 is probably a good baseline To just kind of interrupt

[01:33:39] Well then, okay So let's speed track I feel like we've done a good job actually No, we've done everything I was literally about to ask you guys Like are there scenes that we haven't mentioned That you want to bring up

[01:33:49] Because I feel like we have talked about everything There's just one moment that I really love Which is when McConaughey is on Larry It's very quick McConaughey is on Larry King And he's saying how technology is Isolating us actually Like he does a lot of good

[01:34:03] But at the end it's kind of making us More alone, feeling emptier And it kind of cuts to the earth And as he's kind of pontificating about His own belief in how technology is ruining the world Is actually when aliens are sending their signal

[01:34:17] And trying to communicate with us We're just not listening And Jody kind of says In another scene that kind of echoes that Which is They've been sending the signal for 26 years Yeah Yes We just haven't received it We just haven't been listening We just haven't found it Exactly

[01:34:35] Yeah And I love that I love the idea that Right, because that confirms the purpose of her work Like it's not just like Well we didn't need Setti Like they get in touch when they get in touch No, she had to be listening And scanning the sky

[01:34:49] And desperately searching for It gets back to the blind faith element of it Of like In order to pursue this kind of work And to believe that you are capable Of making sort of like Groundbreaking discoveries You have to believe there's something out there

[01:35:04] That just hasn't been noticed up until this point Like that's the Fermi paradox thing It's not that they haven't tried to contact us Is that no one's been able to hear it yet And that requires Like a little bit of willful naivety To believe in yourself It's faith

[01:35:18] Taking on faith That's the ironic little twist at the end of the movie Right, you know It's like she's, yeah Before you run out of battery And because we have to do the box office game I just quickly want to do A little corner with you Yeah, yeah

[01:35:32] Because you were pushing very hard for Zemeckis You and I were DMing back and forth When Zemeckis was starting to gain some steam Humble brag And March Madness Little, yeah, humble brag Yeah, I was fucking DMing with Tintin, baby And I said

[01:35:45] Like is there one you'd want to do And you said Death of Cums are contact two of my favorite movies And we were never going to force you to do one of them But I was so fascinated Because you were in Tintin You also worked on King Kong

[01:35:58] Where it has this big motion capture performance in it You have experience with that stuff firsthand And within like, you know Five years after this movie Zemeckis is all in on motion capture Stuck there for a decade And I feel like Tintin for me

[01:36:14] What makes that movie such a breakthrough in so many ways Is that's like the first time where I think There are successfully naturalistic mocap performances So often the ones that work are actors like Andy Serkis who had a really sort of facile understanding Of theatricality and understanding

[01:36:32] What you needed to push through In order to have those performances registered When you get to the Zemeckis movies It's the dead-eyed zombie animatronic thing But Tintin is a very low-key character He is like a thoughtful, you know Sort of like reserved, uh,

[01:36:47] Reactionary character in a lot of ways And yet that feels like A full-bodied performance to me In a way that none of the Zemeckis movies were able to do Did you find Was the technology just at a point Where it was able to pick up on that

[01:37:04] Or was there anything you had to adjust In your technique to figure out how to make that work I mean, it's a hard to say Because, you know, what Andy did with Peter On all those Rings movies was extraordinary And that, I think

[01:37:22] I mean, correct me if I'm wrong But I think that pre-day it's all of Zemeckis' smoke-ap stuff It does, yeah Yeah So to me it's kind of I mean, I know that Golem isn't necessarily life-like And he is much more of a creature than anything else

[01:37:35] You can kind of do a little bit more In terms of the design of the character Taking away from a human And turning it to something different Whereas a lot of Zemeckis' stuff Is very much trying to Get as close to a photo-realistic human As you possibly can

[01:37:49] So that separates it a little bit But also when I did Tintin And worked with all the smoke-ap guys And stuff, they were always kind of like You know, this technology is going to change next week It's going to change on the next film

[01:38:03] It's going to change by the time Cameron gets his hands on it again It's going to change by the next Apes movie So if I went and saw Like what they're doing on Avatar down in New Zealand I wouldn't even know what that was

[01:38:15] Because it doesn't look anything like What we were doing on Tintin So it's such a technology that has Advanced and changed so quickly That it really, for me I think it comes down to the technology Because I think the performers are always

[01:38:28] You're always trying to do honest stuff You're always trying to get to the truth And certainly with MoCab You have to push through the technology Like that was one thing that Andy always taught me And told me was You have to kind of articulate A little bit more

[01:38:42] Like really try and get through the technology And we would have panels of You know the Tintin panels all over the MoCab stage So I think I think it's just more the technology catching up Like I'd be interested to see if he did it now

[01:38:57] If some of those movies would have been more successful In terms of the rendering And how we can view those characters I just think maybe that would be different Because there's no question Jim Carrey can push through the technology That's not a problem of the actor

[01:39:10] It must be more of the rendering And the technology that they had At their fingertips Yeah, exactly Tintin 2 please Sorry, I know I've asked for it before I know I know, if only Well, something they've always talked about But nothing concrete on that

[01:39:29] It's also, I mean the beauty of motion capture You could do it 30 years from now You can't age out of playing Tintin I don't want to be playing Tintin as a 60-year-old To be honest I don't know Maybe you should 15 years

[01:39:41] I would do it, I mean it's great Let's play the box office game Box office game Yes, please Jamie, you alluded to Contact going up against the device I know, I hope I didn't blow it No, it's so much blow it So it opens number 2

[01:39:55] But it's the 4th of July movie Whatever opened the 4th of July is still number 1 So contact opens to 20 million It makes 100 domestic About 160 worldwide Yeah That's good Big legs Yeah And it holds like a 22% hold next week But what's number 1, Griffin? Men in Black 4th of July, 97

[01:40:14] Men in Black Big Willy weekend That's right That's right His second 4th of July home run in Iran The definitive New York 90s movie One of the greatest films ever made Men in Black Number 3 is a big action movie Two stars Also a great film

[01:40:33] I mean also just a great 90s action movie I was going to guess conspiracy theory But then No, no, great I don't think you would call that a great film Right Great movie 97, two big stars Great Two male Male and female Two male stars Two male stars 97

[01:40:50] It's in And I would say this is my new favorite thing Is a new, my genre I love Ham War You got two kinds of ham Going up against each other Oh boy Cause I Oh, it's Face Off? It's Face Off It's Face Off The ultimate Ham War

[01:41:06] Travolta and Cage Right, it's Prejudo versus like I don't know Honey Baked I don't know Black Farr Cage is Honey Baked Right Cage is Honey Baked I don't know what Travolta is Travolta is something weird He's like Deli Meats Anyway Travolta's boar's head Face Off Jamie, Face Off

[01:41:28] Are you a fan of Face Off? You want to take it? Absolutely I've only seen it once But it's terrifying as a child It is terrifying as a child Especially when he has no face Well there's a lot of uneasy stuff Is Dominic Swain in it? Yes

[01:41:42] There's a lot of uneasy stuff All the family stuff is really creepy We've got Magnet Prison Some of the scariest concepts in all the film Alright Number 4 Disney Moving Number 4 Disney Moving would be Hercules That's right There you go, nailed it I've said this before in the show

[01:42:02] At the time I walked out of Hercules I turned to my dad I said that's tied It is tied with Toy Story For the best movie I've ever seen And it is wild that I still think Toy Story Is about as good a movie I've ever seen

[01:42:14] And I don't even like Hercules anymore Like I've twice in the last 10 years Re-watched it and gone like Yeah, not for me I'm excited to re-watch Hercules I haven't seen them in years Yeah, I remember liking Hercules I would love to have a reason To re-watch Hercules

[01:42:31] Wait, James Woods, no? Oh my god, incredible woods That's right It might be my favorite woods performance I have to say that's the one thing That holds up perfectly for me Favorite woods, come on There's too many options Come on, I could talk all day

[01:42:45] His hair is fire It is, it's very cool Number 5 Romcom, Big Movie My best friend's wedding Yeah, alright Well you got it, there you go I remember 97, it was a big year I know, I know It was activated, I was waiting on her to take the green

[01:43:02] It was a lot of movies Here's the thing, Caj, Con Air is number 8 So Caj has two movies Oh my god Which is huge And then you've also got Batman and Robin And The Lost World Jurassic Park So you've got these two giant sequels

[01:43:18] One of which is underperforming One of which is not But then also Out to Sea You know the Jack Lemon Walter Mathow, yeah Is number 6, it's just sort of hanging out That was out, I don't know It's like, it's like peak Hollywood

[01:43:35] Like peak, we figured out this machinery It's just humming along Cause yeah, Jesus you got Speed 2 Liar Liar, Austin Powers Also look at the money on Liar Liar Look how much money they made Huge, and Jamie tell me how many weeks

[01:43:51] Liar Liar has been in the box office What week of release this is Is it like, are we in 10? April 17, week 17 Holy shit And when it's total gross is what Is it like 180? It's final gross is 181 Made 300 worldwide in 1997 He can't lie He doesn't lie that guy

[01:44:13] You look at this and you have like You have star vehicles You have franchises You know you have more You have high concept action Guys, guys, guys, remember movies The movies! I miss them God, I miss them so bad Jamie, how's it this year just fucking sucked

[01:44:33] Fucking sucked Also we don't even fucking know who's president Do you know what I mean? Fuck, this is it What's your pattern here, Jamie? When I pull up Deadline and it says like Shocker, Amblin film overperforms With $3 million weekend What is this movie? I've never heard about it

[01:44:51] Just by process of elimination because it's on 20 drive-in screens It's the number one movie in America Oh boy Jamie, what's your battery at? 9% We could talk about Mank for a sec Have you guys seen Mank yet? Yeah, I've seen Mank You've seen Mank? Yeah You've seen Mank?

[01:45:11] Oh my god I've seen Mank How good is Mank? Jamie, I'm gonna DM you I have a lot to say about Mank I'm very excited about Mank Yeah, I don't know It's been such a bad year

[01:45:23] I mean that's basically the only thing that we have to look forward to Mank Kind of Right, basically Pretty much You're flying out to film a movie tomorrow On election day No pact Can you say No, it's the worst time What the movie is

[01:45:38] I'm curious just what it feels like Is this the first thing you've done Since the pandemic started? Since lockdown, yeah Yeah Well, I did some research I'm in a Tom Clancy film with Michael B. Jordan That we did some I'm very excited for that movie That's why I

[01:45:54] Please Without remorse I did some reshoots on You know, during lockdown Which was scary and everything Because you know, the masks And the whole COVID protocols and everything But this will be the first one that I'm starting Since lockdown, yeah So we'll see how it goes

[01:46:11] I mean it's It's insane I mean nothing will Be the same for an actor I mean, you know, you're kind of The distancing The rigorous testing every week The distance from your director The distance Film sets are places that are communal

[01:46:30] They are places where you stand in close proximity And you huddle together and you speak And you complain Yeah And that is just gone Because there's a guy in a blue jacket That just keeps coming around going too close Too close for too long So go away

[01:46:44] I mean, I find like especially having done reshoots For something that you originally shot pre-pandemic Did it change your process at all? Like do you find yourself having Do you find yourself having to adjust anything And your creative sort of workflow as an actor

[01:46:59] To overcome the weirdness of it Or is there anything you feel like you need to replace When the sort of communal collaborative aspect of it Is a little more distant I mean, because with the clienty thing We're wearing military gear and helmets And headsets

[01:47:18] So you're already kind of like at a disadvantage Because you can't hear anything anyway But then you throw people in masks Kind of trying to go It just kind of makes it impossible I mean, it doesn't really change any process necessarily It's just sad because

[01:47:36] I have a lot of fun on film sets I grew up on film sets I love making movies I love the energy of film sets I love the talent and the craft that people bring Every day to their jobs And having it so compartmentalized

[01:47:51] Where people in zone A can't go in zone B You know, it just creates an atmosphere That isn't, it's not the same And I know that we have to do this For people safety and everything And it's the right thing to do But it's just, yeah

[01:48:03] It's a process of readjustment I suppose They're also, I mean look There are a ton of reasons to want to work in movies But for movie nerds like ourselves Ultimately it's like You want to sit next to John Hurt On a park bench while he chainsmokes cigarettes

[01:48:18] And tells you about his entire career Like that's like the best shit About working in movies Especially when you remove the final product From the equation which you can't really control And I just feel like I don't know, I'm too neurotic To try to do anything during this

[01:48:35] But... Oh no, I'm neurotic Sure, sure, sure Believe me There's also a lot less demand for me to do things Than there is for you I'm gonna be in like helmets and goggles And gloves I'm gonna look like a freak tomorrow on the planet

[01:48:52] I'm gonna make all my family look like a freak too I just think, I mean it's what you said It's, I'm gonna feel very sad The first time I'm back on a set Where even if it's post-vaccine There are just more protocols in place

[01:49:04] And it's harder to just casually walk up to Whatever great character act there And just like try to get them to view In stories about everything It's saying that if I... It's saying that my battery's gonna go into sleep Some nervous I wanna like somehow stop the record

[01:49:22] At least save the recording Can I press stop? Send your final message That will be carried throughout the cosmos Before you stop Well it's pointless I was gonna say go vote But it's fucking pointless as I've already voted Goodbye Jamie He served us valiantly

[01:49:41] That was a great app I'm so glad we finally got him on It's been such a long time coming Alright, so guys Are you ready to get started? Oh no David What's up? Look at his background Are you in a wormhole then? Wait where's Jamie?

[01:49:56] Ben we finished the episode Jamie just left What are you talking about We just seconds We recorded for two hours Oh my god Yeah we did about a gentleman's too Maybe it was a little longer That's crazy

[01:50:09] God I forgot to tell Jamie that the Yankee street gang says hello Damn it Ah fuck that would have been so funny That would have been so funny It is so fucking funny Anyway, also Ben Why are you in a dodecahedron? Is that your new like studio

[01:50:25] Or like your new recording equipment? He's still in the wormhole No he's inside a dodecahedron Alright I don't know David I don't know what that is Yeah define dodecahedron for us It's a 12 sided structure Oh boy Wait a second this is weird Yup

[01:50:46] I just got Jamie's audio file in the drop box We recorded under two hours Around two hours Around two hours This says his file is 18 hours long Oh my god Why is it called manifesto? Fuck do we release this? Could the public handle this?

[01:51:10] I mean they seem to have responded to like Lower-fi audio pretty well I think they're gonna love static They're obsessed with that They love it Look I'm so glad that people have been big fans of our two Big bits this miniseries One leaving in bathroom breaks

[01:51:27] And two me sabotaging my own audio record They were ambitious We did their big swings We didn't know people would like them The bathroom break was next level I was gonna say credit to us that they're like So I thought it was gonna be a bit

[01:51:41] When there's just 30 second pause While there's a bathroom break But then nothing, it wasn't addressed But is that the bit? Hodgman called me And he was like I'm sorry I needed to call to discuss this I listened to it three times

[01:51:56] To try to parse out what the bit was And then I got it You guys are the Andy Koff in a podcasting I really appreciate it And I was like John, we forgot to call it out But he came to me and he was like I see it

[01:52:09] I see the artistry of what you did It took several times Anyway, we're done Griffin please wrap us up We're done I hope everyone enjoyed this crispy clean audio I apologize for the last two episodes There's one more that might be affected But hopefully not

[01:52:28] It's good, Ben says it's good We've come up with a solution Great So then, apologies for the two episodes In which I fucked up and had my input set Incorrectly, we were recording We did like five episodes in six days That's the other thing

[01:52:41] Yeah, it was a weird rush So there was a rush You know, we went out We did our drive-in thing We did it right Which is due next month Really excited about that on Patreon Where we kind of just captured A bunch of field audio

[01:52:56] But I forgot to reset the inputs after that And it was like we recorded Four consecutive nights in a row I apologize, I'll say this I guarantee you however frustrated You felt listening to it I feel more frustrated about Ed doing it I assure you

[01:53:15] But that was our episode with Tintin It's fucking wild that he listens to our show, right? Insane I know I've been saying that a lot This miniseries and we'll continue to say it On future episodes of the miniseries But it's just very Wild and delightful A lovely man

[01:53:32] Such a big fan of his Lovely man But it's also I just do I zoom out And I do strongly believe He is one of the best actors of his generation And I think he has kind of a perfect career In that he was like

[01:53:44] It's kind of stunning Especially like compared to Jody Foster How he is similarly transcended Past a child career Especially one where he had such a big Roll at such a big young age Where he's the title character And has gone on to work with so many

[01:54:00] I don't disagree with him He's worked with great directors Right, but like you know Come on this is his episode Let's not embarrass him here Like gushing about him Okay fine I guess he'll never listen to this one though He's a piece of shit He's an overrated hack

[01:54:16] Tintin blows Oh boy No it doesn't You couldn't even say that with a straight face I can't even say it I'm crying I'm crying Tintin rules Tintin rules He rules He's got a nose for a great story And he loves adventure He's one of my best friends

[01:54:35] He rules He's got a white dog And his best friend is a drunken sea captain AKA Snowy I mean talk about squad goals All I need in life My little white dog and my drunken sea captain I'm a boy reporter Sign me up for adventure

[01:54:55] Thank you all for listening Please remember to rate, review, subscribe Thanks to Ants for good enough for our social media Joe Bowen And Pat Reynolds for our artwork Lay in mind governing for our theme song Go to our Shopify page For some real nerdy merch And go to

[01:55:11] Blankies.red.com For some real nerdy shit And go to Patreon.com Slash blank check For blank check special features We're around in the corner On the alien franchise Starting to get into those big questions Of God And space Allah Ridley Scott Tune in next week For

[01:55:35] What Lies Beneath, right? Three-year gap Then two movies in the same year I always forget which goes first Yeah, next is What Lies Beneath So tune in next week For What Lies Beneath With Star Lee Kynes Star Lee Kynes are very special guests On What Lies Beneath

[01:55:54] And look What else is there to say? Endless always Jake Beasley's a dang-ass freak