Crimewave with Brendan Hines

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check I'm not that kind of podcast.

[00:00:23] Well, with a little practice, you could learn to be. There you go. I was remarking upon how anemic the quotes page was for this movie and our guest volunteered that he still has lines memorized from this movie from 25 years ago.

[00:00:37] So I pimped him out, as it were, the comedic term that probably should not be used anymore. I immediately regret saying hello everybody. Hi. Hi. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's Blank Check with Griffin and David. I don't know. I'm flipping it around. Sure.

[00:00:55] Yeah, do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's just introduce the movie. I mean, the podcast, whatever it is we do. It's a podcast about filmographies. Filmographies which are made up of movies. So we can introduce both at the same time, David. Of course.

[00:01:10] Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion projects they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby. This is a real bounce after a clear that led to a bigger clear

[00:01:24] There was a lot of back and forth with this man at the beginning of his career. The man we're talking about, of course, is Sam Raimi. Yes, that is right. We are talking about Sam Raimi. The podcast is called Podcast Me To Hell

[00:01:37] And the movie we're talking about His second film. His second proper... Do you want to acknowledge this here? Because people have been Yeah, there were some people who were like Are you going to talk about that movie It's Murder which was like a full-length movie.

[00:01:51] It was never really released. But his Super 8 movie And the answer was like No, we're not. Sorry. I mean I think it is You can watch it, right? Is it like an extra on a DVD or something? Like is it kicking around somewhere?

[00:02:07] Because there's this sort of question of like Edgar Wright has that movie A Fistful Of Fingers That one counts. That one really came out as much as he is I think a little embarrassed by it like that did have a release

[00:02:23] He said it came out in literally one theater Well, you know But it still is You know, as a poster and all Anyway, look Crime Wave is Sam Raimi's second movie Really, I would say Yeah, I'm seeing It's Murder Split into parts In a very low transfer

[00:02:40] On Daily Motion That's what I saw So I was kind of like Yeah, thank God we didn't do that This movie is called Crime Wave Do you want to know something Griff? I want to know everything David Okay, well I don't know if I can do that

[00:02:52] This movie came out in America You know, it was sort of sprinkled around Had like a little European release or whatever Campbell's famous line was This movie wasn't released, it escaped Right But it's US release was the day After my birth The 25th of April 1986

[00:03:10] Just isn't that funny to think One day into my life Maybe my parents had the New York Times Delivered and there was like a little ad For Crime Wave in there And they were like, yeah, that looks bad Yeah, it is funny

[00:03:25] It is funny to imagine one day after your birth Your parents frantically calling Anyone they trusted to watch you So they could rush out to theaters to see Crime Wave This guy, I mean he just had He understands how to use the camera

[00:03:39] Like this has got to be good, right? Yes A very bizarre film that is largely forgotten In part because the people involved in it Have sort of largely disowned it I feel like Bruce Campbell is the only one who Will still speak on the record About this movie

[00:03:55] And the three other main creative forces Four if we include Rob Tapper here Still seem to be so traumatized By this production that they never even want to Acknowledge it And that's the thing that is wildest about this movie

[00:04:07] The thing that for me as a young Sam Raimi fan I just went like, what are you talking about? How does this exist? And how does no one talk about it? It is impossible that it's as bad as you're saying it is

[00:04:18] Because this is a movie directed by Sam Raimi And written by the Coen brothers Sounds amazing Right, in the time between Evil Dead and Evil Dead 2 for Raimi And in between Blood Simple And Raising Arizona for the Coens And you're just like how could those three guys

[00:04:34] Together in that moment With that momentum do something That is unwatchable Do you think this movie is unwatchable? I don't, I don't I think it's a difficult film to watch What's hard about it? It is, like I mean I want to bring our guest in

[00:04:52] Yeah bring our guest in I may have to do the quote at the beginning But our guest, first of all, primary credit A dear friend Number one credit with a bullet Top of the resume, dear friend of Griffin Newman He's a dear friend

[00:05:06] But he's also a fine actor, musician In his own right And recently, I don't know if you've experienced this David, but I feel like Or maybe it was just that the show's been going on long enough I feel like in the last 18 months

[00:05:19] I've had a number of close friends Be like, I finally started listening to your podcast Yeah, no For sure, the weird thing of Remember those first couple months In the pandemic where The take was, podcasts are in trouble No one's commuting And then suddenly it became

[00:05:37] Actually everyone's kind of catching up on podcasts Because they're bored And then yes, I did get a lot of I've been listening to Blank Check, having a good time And that's nice So this dear friend of mine Whenever it was 18 months ago Started texting me about

[00:05:54] That he was now listening to the show And when I told him we were doing Sam Raimi He said, I'm just gonna put out there Bruce Campbell And his work in Sam Raimi movies Is pretty much the thing that made me become an actor If there's anything

[00:06:08] Any opening you have for me to talk about this And I asked him about Crime Wave And your line, Brendan If I can quote it directly Yes I said, have you ever seen Crime Wave And Brendan, your response was The old Raimi film, yes

[00:06:24] Paid a ridiculous amount of money For the back-ordered VHS circa 1994 While working at Blockbuster Yeah, I love that slapsticky mess I do I think that's fair And then your text was Or did you mean another one Our guest today is Brendan Hines

[00:06:43] From a little Amazon series called The Tick Lock and Key Yeah The Middleman, Lie to Me What other credits do we want to put in there Brendan? We don't want to put any other credits in After Dear Friend Okay Dear Friend's the most important one Yeah

[00:07:03] As you can see I was waiting for that text From you I was going to jump at the opportunity To talk about it I think actually now that I think about it It may have actually been closer to 1993 I don't want to lead you astray Wow

[00:07:21] I think it was 1993 Okay, wow The point here is It sounds much like what I was talking about You hear about this movie existing And you go, how is that possible And how is that not readily watchable Yeah, well I came to a lot of the Raimi stuff

[00:07:38] Going to comic book stores And I did a play with this guy in high school And he turned me on to a lot of A lot of the stuff First of all he turned me on to Evil Dead 2 Was the first

[00:07:54] Actually that's not true, the first Raimi film I saw Was Darkman Well, that's pretty good In the theater Because I was going to this comic book store Called Cards Comics and Collectibles I believe it's still there And I was always going in there

[00:08:13] And was too shy to talk to anybody But I would just go in and kind of soak up the vibe And They had a poster for Darkman And I thought that's the coolest fucking thing I've ever seen in my life And I still think that And

[00:08:29] Got my parents To allow me to go see this film And That was the First Raimi film I ever saw And I knew that it was Made by someone great And made in a way that was Unique for those sorts of movies Yeah, that's a movie where like

[00:08:49] If you see that poster as a kid you go Oh this looks cool and if you watch that movie You go why is this different from other movies Right Yeah exactly And it was one of the first things where I was like

[00:09:01] Oh this is what it feels like to have Like an authorial stamp on something Or like an authorial take on something I wasn't thinking in terms of the word Auteur but that is what I was thinking That is what I was finally Becoming hip to At that point

[00:09:18] And then this guy I did a play with Introduced me to Evil Dead 2 Which was the greatest movie I had ever seen At that point in my life And it just spoke to where I was at that time In my life

[00:09:30] And all the things that I thought were hilarious Or felt transgressive But also funny And then I was working at Blockbuster I was assistant manager Blockbuster video, Owings Mills This is Brendan speaking Can I help you? And I had access to this Massive bible This VHS bible

[00:09:54] That we had At Blockbuster No IMDB or anything at this point And I would just go through it Looking for actors that I loved And at that point Bruce Campbell was Top of the list And I saw Crime Wave And I cross referenced it

[00:10:13] Realized that it was directed by Sam Raimi And just like you're saying I couldn't believe that no one had brought that up Everyone talks about Evil Dead 2 And Evil Dead And even Darkman But no one had ever mentioned Crime Wave And I found the database at Blockbuster

[00:10:32] Not available Of course But you know back then There was always a copy That was just available If you wanted to back order it For like 90 bucks It felt like more money Than even existed in the world at that point And anyway I ordered it through

[00:10:54] The offices of Blockbuster Video And paid for it myself That's how intent you were On seeing Crime Wave Yeah I mean I was just such a Yeah I was an obsessive I also like it reminded me Thinking about watching Crime Wave

[00:11:10] And then just thinking about talking about it I was reminded I went so deep down I went into all of the Raimi Collaborators The Becker, Josh Becker Who did this thing called Lunatics A Love Story with Ted Raimi And this thing called Sundown The Vampire in Retreat

[00:11:33] I don't know if you've seen this movie It was directed by Anthony Hickox Who did the Waxwork movies Which Campbell is also in I'm looking sorry I mean Lunatics A Love Story I'm seeing Ted Raimi as the star He's wearing a tinfoil suit on the poster Yeah

[00:11:51] Okay this is cool It's similar to Crime Wave The quirky guy trying to get the girl That old chestnut But Sundown Was the one where I was just like Oh god nobody knows about this movie And it's got all the coolest People in the world in it

[00:12:09] I mean David Carradine is in it And Bruce Campbell plays Van Helsing Oh here it is Yeah yeah yeah Damn These video covers are really fun I had them all on my shelf And I watched them repeatedly M. Emmett Walsh playing a character called Mort Bisbee

[00:12:30] That's pretty good That's when I started to really make those connections Between The cinematic universe of Raimi And the Coens Overlapping So much With the people they used And the character names This movie starts off at the Hudsucker prison And you just start to see that

[00:12:53] And then over the years You being me Is getting into The Coen brothers And I'm picking up on all of these references That I don't think anybody else is noticing So it makes me feel very special But also makes me feel very protective Of these things

[00:13:11] I wasn't one of the ones who wanted to share them with everybody I wanted to keep them Did you ever see I just love this title Thou shalt not kill dot dot dot Except Which is another Josh Becker Written with Bruce Campbell And Scott Spiegel

[00:13:29] Of course who wrote Evil Dead 2 And starring Sam and Ted Raimi Sam Raimi plays a cult leader in this movie Yeah That one I could not find a copy of Well according to Wikipedia Some of the fans of the film Hail it is one of the great works

[00:13:45] In American filmography Wow I'm excited there Sure But that's crazy What you're describing too When you say like Oh I didn't really want to share it But right Before the internet It's just some person at a video store Being like hey check this out That's the only

[00:14:12] Here I'm going to make this picture of Sam Raimi As a Charles Manson figure My background In comic book stores Had to function as an analog version of the internet Right where you heard about things from people Where people downloaded trivia into your brain

[00:14:26] And where you could maybe exchange or acquire these things That is a look We're looking at Sam Raimi In Thou shalt not kill Except I was just taking a long pause The top trivia fact On Thou shalt not kill Except Is the movie was mostly

[00:14:47] In the garage and on the lawn Of the house where Bruce Campbell grew up Gotta Go back home And that's the other thing I used to do My friends and I If we had a snow day Everyone did this But we would make these camcorder films

[00:15:07] And I would replicate entire sequences From Sam Raimi films With the camcorder And with one or two friends I also I don't want to embarrass you Brennan But I feel like I just need to state this up front Because this is an audio medium You're an incredibly handsome

[00:15:26] Tall well built and charming man Wow I'm embarrassed You hate it when people say this But When you were telling me how Important and impactful Campbell And the Raimi films were for you growing up I was like that makes a ton of sense When I said to David

[00:15:46] David went like oh that makes a ton of sense Because you do just sort of have that Bruce Campbell Spirit where it's like You genuinely are just such a dork for these things Despite the fact that perhaps from outside perception You do not seem like the person

[00:15:58] Who would be that kind of a dork For these things And you're just very like Passionate and collaborative And knowledgeable about all of this Like on the tick You played a very Bruce Campbell-y part And you seem to really relish that And when I hear you

[00:16:17] Tell me about frustrations you have In your acting career They are often you getting handed sort of like generic Dude roles When people want you to play Like the nice guy version of the thing Rather than the smug asshole version of the thing

[00:16:31] Yeah or the thing with any sense Of or with the thing That has any unique spin on it whatsoever You know Doesn't necessarily have to be smug And you know Nice and well lit Right I feel that thing Shared between you and Bruce Campbell Of just the like

[00:16:53] I want to use the body I'm in In a subversive way Rather than just get plugged into a frame I always found when I was watching Cause I would watch any film If I knew Bruce Campbell had even the smallest part I mean it's fair to say

[00:17:07] I had a massive crush on the guy I would get annoyed when they cast him As just the generic good looking guy Who just shows up for like five lines And then walks away You know and they didn't let him You could see also

[00:17:22] When they're telling him to turn it down When they're telling him to bury That natural thing he has Not just the cockiness Not just the humor But just the He's a collaborator And he could bring so much to anything It's not to front load here

[00:17:41] But it's one of the wildest things Like digging into the history of this movie Was they wrote this as a vehicle for him They wanted him to play The Reed Burney part They made him screen test Cause for the first time they're working

[00:17:55] With like other producers and financers And we'll dig into the deeper version Of all this But all the money people said Like Bruce Campbell cannot be the lead of this movie They take the role of Ronaldo the heel

[00:18:07] And the character runs throughout the entire length of the movie Specifically so that not only He could have a big enough role In the film but also They were like we need to convince them To pay Bruce to be here For run of production

[00:18:21] Because they did not understand Like he is the third collaborator Right he's alchemical here Right but also he's gonna produce shit He's gonna shoot second unit He's gonna be like talent coordinator He's editing on the fly too And they wouldn't pay to let him

[00:18:38] Work or stay there during Post production they were like the movie's done He's an actor he's wrapped You don't need him anymore and it was like a big fight It's weird That they did not Gravitate to Bruce Campbell who is handsome

[00:18:52] And charming and I do not say that I mean No offense to Reed Burney Who obviously has gone on to have a great Career and gave One of the most moving theater performances I ever saw In Circle Mirror Transformation And obviously he's a working actor He's doing great

[00:19:10] But why did they then bring in This basically unknown guy And go like well this is the guy That's what I don't really understand I feel the same way I'm always surprised when I read That they didn't want Campbell Maybe they just found

[00:19:26] Maybe he couldn't be the loser Maybe they felt like he couldn't be the loser It's insane I mean obviously that's the only version Of that decision that makes sense to me But there is the thing Conor Ratliff friend of the show And his Dead Eyes podcast

[00:19:43] Often talks about when he's talking to people About like theories on why He got fired from Band of Brothers That part of it was like Casting made this decision without Tom Hanks the director of the episode And when the director comes in maybe they want

[00:19:57] To exert their control Right or they think there's something wrong But not even that David I mean that's a fair enough thing But I also think sometimes when people Get involved at that kind of level And they're like I need to think

[00:20:12] That I'm more valuable than just being the person Who writes the check I have to put my foot down somewhere And on paper you go If this guy is saying look here's my friend Who I made home movies with in our backyards And he's my leading man

[00:20:26] You go like red alert, red alert, red alert Have to hire a real actor And he's Bruce Campbell And he looks like this And he's this good and this funny I cannot imagine him going like Well this guy's unusable He is fundamentally not a leading man

[00:20:42] I think you're right It's the control thing too Reed Burney they can pluck out of I assume obscurity at this point And he will be so grateful Theater right A well respected theater actor Yeah for sure but leading role And then he will be just Grateful and

[00:21:03] He'll do the job But Campbell will be collaborating With and as the producers Will be seeing it conspiring With Ramey Yes That makes a lot of sense That you don't want The whatever The chickens running the hen house I don't know Especially because it's just like

[00:21:27] It's such an amazing calling card movie You're in this catch 22 Where like if you're the people writing the checks For this movie you go holy shit These guys did what On what budget They pulled that off That's impressive they know what they're doing But simultaneously you're probably scared

[00:21:45] Where you're like they did that all on their own There was no oversight I'm not going to be able to control them at all If you let all three of them retain Their key creative positions Versus if you force A different leading man in there

[00:22:00] How much can we sort of like Elbow out Bruce Campbell Well we'll talk about the strange production Of this film in a sec But I do Just want to get on the record Ben Hosley our producers Opinion of this film Ten stars Because when I was watching it

[00:22:22] It did occur to me That people will appreciate the energy of this film If nothing else And I log on this morning Or log on this afternoon And Ben proved me right I give it ten bonks Four Clanks And a couple of Ha ha ha for good measures

[00:22:45] A couple ha ha ha's That makes sense It's about crime As you pointed out Griffin There's a wave Ben loves water And you know It's just a big old loony tune of a movie Whether or not Sam Raimi was happy with the end result It's just jumping

[00:23:07] From here to there Like you know The whole time It never lets up You recently logged us on Letterboxd Two and a half stars And your review was Now I agree with that but I probably give it three stars Yeah maybe I'm being a little rude

[00:23:26] It's not the most incoherent movie I've ever seen It's not It's absolutely not But I wouldn't say it's in the middle Of incoherence and coherence No I agree with you But it is just like I am fascinated It's hard to even imagine What the sort of Undisturbed version

[00:23:50] Of this movie would look like Right? Like you read about There were multiple steps The production itself was like a nightmare Reading the anecdotes about the production of this movie Which we will get into I'm like This sounds as intense as like The Hurt Locker

[00:24:10] Like the most extreme Apocalypse Now Like the most chaotic shoots of all time Right like they're in the jungle somewhere They force reshoots Edits They make him hire a new composer All these sorts of things But Ramy makes his movies So deliberately

[00:24:31] That it's not like you can easily Recut them and take the Ramy DNA Out of them Right So you don't watch this movie It doesn't feel like other movies we've covered before That were sort of pulled away from directors Where you're like

[00:24:48] The energy of this thing is just so fucking Infectious I am now just looking at my letterbox review Which you reminded me of And the comments are very indicative I guess of how polarizing Crime wave is It's wacky but not in a fun way

[00:25:04] I think it's wacky in a fun way David please reconsider 1.5 stars too many King Or really 2 stars too little It's not good and I hope the writers never work again I think that's a joke about the Coen brothers It's extremely bad

[00:25:18] I was kind of blown away by this movie Just love and hate Doing battle This movie provokes a reaction If nothing else I feel that within me I feel those two sides At war Within me When I watched this movie

[00:25:38] I was reminded of how I felt when I watched it as a kid There's so much of it that I love So many shots that work So many set pieces That are oversized Shouldn't work And yet kind of do Even when she's dangling out the window

[00:25:55] And the flowerpot is falling He catches the pot and the soil comes out Little bits like that Which are very Coen brothers-y For me the big thing That I hated When I was watching this as a kid Was the jokes that don't work The big broad slap

[00:26:13] Sticky three stooges stuff That doesn't work I get mad at that Because this movie could have been perfect This movie could have been perfect And for me the biggest thing I think this movie for you David Goes from a two and a half

[00:26:29] I'm not going to presume to speak for you For me this movie would go To a five Boinks on the head Wow, huge If you take the fucking ADR Of what's his name, Crush? Yeah, the Paul L. Smith character The Paul L. Smith

[00:26:48] If you take that ADR out With whoever Is a wrestler or something The ADR is tough It's not the most seamless It's egregious too It's in all these places where they clearly Are just adding it in post Where he's adding like

[00:27:06] What do you think you're doing here and there And oh I'll show you here and there And that is where you start That's where I think I can see The hand prints of the studio And these producers Just trying to fill every single fucking hole Was the whole

[00:27:23] Wrap around a mandated Reshoot The electric chair I was reading they made them reshoot bookends Oh, I don't know Because the movie was incomprehensible to people Or at least they thought it was That makes sense It's pretty Incomprehensible And it's pretty expository But I agree with you Brendan

[00:27:47] That at moments I'm watching this movie And thinking wait is this my favorite movie Of all time Is this the most perfect movie I've ever seen And then the next scene will happen And I'll like drift a little bit

[00:27:59] Right, it's sort of weird how you can zone out Watching a very very manic movie Because sometimes you're like This is such a cleverly executed sequence And then other times you're like I lost it What's going on Where are we And all three evil dead movies

[00:28:18] Are movies where things just stack on top of each other In this way Instead of taking an hour For the crazy shit to happen It happens for 20 minutes And there's a resolution It's like what if the shit happens for 70 out of 85 minutes But those movies have the benefit

[00:28:34] Of being kind of focused On the stories they're telling Army of Darkness I guess a little bit less so And then I think Because this and Hudsucker Are sort of written around the same time They're written in concert with each other

[00:28:48] And it's only when the Coens are coming off Of Barton Fink And have that success That they're able to get Hudsucker made So who knows what work is done further On the script between then and now And probably a lot of work done

[00:29:02] From the lessons they learned on working And Hudsucker which I love And I think is a masterpiece Is a movie where they figure out The emotional spine of the thing And it's weird because when that movie came out All the reviews are like

[00:29:17] The Coen brothers are so cynical They think all these characters are fucking idiots The movie is so mean spirited And I think that movie is like incredibly sincere And earnest And I think they have a lot of love For this big like galoof at the center

[00:29:31] Whereas this movie you kind of feel like What if we make a movie where everyone is an idiot And that's funny Like it is funny But I do think they realized a decade later It helps if you have a couple characters at the center

[00:29:44] That you can actually kind of care about Yeah you want to root for something I guess If you're going to make a real movie And Crime Wave feels like Like something that escaped From a film canister To paraphrase Bruce Campbell Right? It's like some guy was delivering

[00:30:02] A bunch of movies to a theater And then there's one like case That's like sort of clattering around And the guy is like what's that one? And he's like oh no you wouldn't want to deal with that one No no no

[00:30:14] I was just hauling that off to the dump And the guy is like oh no come on And he knocks it over and then the film escapes Black smoke seeps out Okay let me give you some context about Crime Wave Sam Raimi makes the evil dead

[00:30:28] Famously long torturous shoot No money He goes to Michigan And then he goes to New York Looking for post production And Edna Paul edits that movie And she's got a young assistant Named Joel Cohn And Joel is watching evil dead Get assembled And he's like

[00:30:51] This guy is talented And these two midwestern boys bond Over this Right Joel sort of immediately recognizes He's watching this footage He bonds with them And she says to Raimi You should read the scripts That the Cohn brothers write And Raimi is like there's two of them

[00:31:14] They're like yeah the second one works As a statistical accountant at Macy's And Raimi's reaction is like Look I think Joel is a nice guy I'm not going to read these fucking scripts That sounds like a disaster He's like oh god this is going to be embarrassing

[00:31:28] And then he reads I think Blood Simple Which I think is what they had written With the thinking of That'll be our calling card movie And he's like oh shit These guys know how to write scripts He's like this is a Hitchcock level script

[00:31:42] This is an actual perfect screenplay There's not much detail That JJ could find about the writing of Crimewave Because they hate talking about it They don't want to talk about it It is obviously They're working on Hudsucker at the same time It's obviously some early version of Hudsucker

[00:32:01] And obviously they use the word Hudsucker In Crimewave It's on their minds And it was called Relentless Then it was called The XYZ Murders No one could ever Come up with a good title for this movie Crimewave is not a good title But it's fine

[00:32:19] It's kind of the best Of the options they had I agree and yet it was forced on them XYZ Murders I read it was that You'll have an easier time selling this movie If there's an X or murder in the title Like that always tracks really well

[00:32:33] And they were like we can put both in the title So they get money from Embassy Pictures Classic sort of Low budget you know they did Scanners They did Escape from New York They did The Fog They give them a little money basically off the back of

[00:32:49] Evil Dead and Norman Lear Wait Norman Lear? Yeah this is what's wild David They suggested Crimewave as the title Right shit Robert Remy was the head of Avco Embassy He sells it to Norman Lear He goes to take over He becomes the head of production at Universal

[00:33:10] I think and is the guy who like Greenlights ET and shit And Norman Lear buys Avco Embassy for $20 million Chops the Avco off the top Of the name His two big things are kind of Rob Reiner's career off the ground In that he supports This is Spinal Tap

[00:33:31] And Princess Bride And then within four years The company sold to Coca Cola And folded into bigger Sony So there's this four year run where Norman Lear's in charge He makes two like totemic Rob Reiner movies And this is one of the weird other experiments In that time

[00:33:49] This is also why Louise Lasser is in it I think Because of Norman Lear And Mary Hartman Broken Hearts and Noses That's another Suggested title, terrible title Crime Wave is finally Decided upon And obviously as we said Bruce Campbell Was intended to be the star

[00:34:11] And Embassy Pictures would not bite Reed Burney He's good, I like Reed Burney We pro Reed Burney I always like him and he is good in this And you do wonder if Bruce is A little too cool to play the guy

[00:34:30] I mean I think he would have done it well But Reed Burney is like so Squirrely in this And Bruce you would have had The added level in a movie That's already really manic Of a guy with Matinee Idol looks pretending to play a nerd Right

[00:34:48] I will tell you that Sheree J. Wilson Who plays Nancy in this movie This is her first movie She had actually been cut out of Tootsie But my thing that I like is when she was cast She told Sam Raimi I don't really like horror movies

[00:35:02] I haven't seen your horror movie And he was like don't watch it It's gonna freak you out I don't want you to dislike me You'll quit the movie I don't want you to think less of me Wow she went on to do 200 episodes basically

[00:35:19] Yeah and Dallas as well She was on Dallas as well Damn she was A lead on Walker Texas Ranger That's you know It's money in the bank That's money Louise Lasser obviously specifically wanted to work with Sam Raimi She loved Evil Dead

[00:35:37] She had worked with Leo and Mary Hartman And she is Great in this movie I think She is so much fun I don't know what do you guys think Have you guys seen this movie Blood Rage No There's a movie that she did

[00:35:54] I think around this time maybe a couple years earlier About a pair of twins One of whom is a serial killer And the other is not And she's the mom And It's basically the same performance She looks exactly the same Her makeup is the same

[00:36:12] Her wardrobe is the same And she has a ton of scenes just to herself I highly recommend people watch Blood Rage Because it's A really good slasher film But also it has these long scenes Of Louise Lasser just calling the cops And I swear

[00:36:28] These scenes are like 8 minutes long With her on the phone Having a meltdown There's no cut away And it's just crazy It's batshit crazy stuff And I don't know what Apparently she had some Addiction issues According to Bruce Campbell She's had a long wild life Louise Lasser

[00:36:51] And a lot of the thing with her Mary Hartman Mary Hartman was A Norman Lear doing A satire of soap operas That ran at the same schedule as soap operas So it was 325 episodes They did 5 episodes a week It was this incredibly ambitious thing

[00:37:07] And it was sort of an American housewife Having like a mental breakdown In the style of a soap opera She hosted SNL Very famous SNL story Right And her monologue was her having like a Mary Hartman Mary Hartman Esque breakdown And the cast having to coax her out

[00:37:25] Of the dressing room and whatever And there are all these questions As to whether like Because she was apparently like the first person banned From coming back to the show Supposedly it was like It's a bit but also they were like But she was actually that difficult

[00:37:42] And Michael O'Donoghue A famously chill person called her clinically berserk Right And whatever but then she later said like Chevy Chase sucked which also seems true Look the whole thing is Everyone was doing 4 billion pounds of cocaine a second And they were all probably

[00:37:58] The most insufferable people in the world As much as every SNL oral history Is like man we were inventing comedy It was the comedy lab back there I'm like you guys were all just out of your minds Absolutely Cause even to the blood rage point

[00:38:13] Louise Lasseter is fascinating because she was someone Who was so good at playing women on the verge of a nervous breakdown And then some of the people who work with her Like she was impossible She was on the verge of a nervous breakdown the entire time

[00:38:23] Yeah and they just have to Point the camera at her and they get that And then they turn it off and she's still that But like an incredibly Effective performer Oh great I mean the scene with the When she's running down the hallway You know in crime wave

[00:38:41] Am I skipping ahead No that's kind of the most perverted sequence You can't skip ahead in crime wave There's not like a narrative Thread that we're picking up and dropping Right right that's true So the doors The door ballet

[00:38:59] Like I don't know who else commits as heavily to that As Louise Lasseter or really the whole Thing in the apartment when Crush is chasing her Around Apparently according to Bruce Campbell She applied her own makeup This is the whole thing right

[00:39:16] She fired her makeup person and said She didn't know what she was doing I know how to do my own makeup And showed up with like a version of what we see in this movie But 40% more extreme And part of their job everyday

[00:39:28] Was to like let her do her own makeup And then take it down But I think the amount of like eye shadow and lipstick And rouge on her face But if you see Blood Rage you'll see that It's the same thing Yes

[00:39:42] And in fact I don't think anyone took it down to 40% I think they just They added more Obviously she's a real name at this point So I get that She's the biggest thing they have You would tolerate more unusual Behavior from her but it is again funny

[00:39:58] Where they're like we're not putting up with this Bruce Campbell who does lots Of work and helps out on You can't cast him We see through your lies Here's Louise Lasser Don't talk to her Don't look her in the eyes Bruce Campbell is like carrying around apple boxes

[00:40:17] And they're like this fucking guy Trying to disrupt our production Can I get you a cup of coffee Get the fuck out of here asshole Fucking asshole you bottleneck There's this Louise Lasser Quote here that's very nice You were sort of alluding to this David

[00:40:34] But she said the appeal to me was not in the role The appeal was that it was so clear to me That it was a director's picture I was willing to put myself in his hands I like to be around people like that

[00:40:44] And then seem to only be a hassle And a nightmare for them after that But you're talking about how hard she committed To like that doorway sequence Which is the type of Ramy thing That must be so impossibly complicated To shoot that it is so wearing

[00:40:58] On an actor And to her credit she does fucking go for it Yes she does which is good Which is right That is the upside You're getting someone who has genuine Chaotic energy on screen And that works for this film very very well Brian James

[00:41:16] Another who plays Arthur Another erratic person Bruce Campbell said that he tore his hotel room to shreds And said that the ghost of his girlfriend's ex-boyfriend Was in the light fixtures I love this story so much It's not even a story I love that sentence so much

[00:41:33] I don't know anything beyond it But the implication Ghost of my girlfriend's ex-boyfriend I love the implication Is that maybe he killed his girlfriend's ex-boyfriend Right Is it one He's haunted by something Or two is he having sex with his girlfriend In his hotel room

[00:41:53] And maybe a light turns on or off And he's like it's your ex-boyfriend I'm throwing this lamp out the window I view it almost as like he's afraid of the competition That it's not like I murdered this guy And now he's coming back for me

[00:42:05] It's like fuck if he's back in ghost form I might not stand a chance Well I tell ya I guess maybe the reason I felt It was the former Was because of it's Brian James Oh sure sure The guy who like haunted me as a kid

[00:42:21] Every time I would look at a VHS Tape cover In the video store that had him on it I'm not going anywhere near that movie Right He's a guy you hire For just immediate physical intensity I think a lot of people Probably know him best from Blade Runner

[00:42:40] Right 48 hours Great in 48 hours Great in The Fifth Element Great in a lot of stuff Wasn't he in Shocker The guy who gets electrocuted But then comes back to life That is a Wes Craven film It's not Brian James though Who is it He's in Future Shock

[00:43:05] Yeah something about shock electricity I'm getting confused It's Michael Murphy who's in Shocker But Michael Murphy Mitch Pelleggi is the man Who has been shocked He is the shockie Michael Murphy is like the cop or whatever He was a cabin boy He had a very odd career

[00:43:25] Paul Smith I'm not seeing specifics on it And I dug a little deeper But they said part of why they redubbed all of his dialogue Was because he was Not the most collaborative That they had a very hard time getting stuff out of him

[00:43:39] Paul Smith at this point is probably best known For playing Bluto in Popeye Which is incredibly funny Because the style of the dubbing in this movie Feels like something out of a Popeye cartoon 100% he can only be dubbed Right where Bluto would just

[00:43:54] His teeth gritted at all times in the old cartoons His lips would never move and then words would just come out That felt very disconnected from his body I'll bet he wouldn't do the Cartoon voices Brian James commits to the cartoon voice Yes And I bet Ramy

[00:44:10] This is just conjecture but I bet Ramy wanted him to do A similarly goofy voice And he wouldn't do it He did a tough guy voice or whatever But then they dubbed him with a tough guy voice So maybe I'm crazy

[00:44:22] But why am I doing a cartoon voice? When I heard his voice I was like Who did they get to do this? Was it like Was this an early Tom Kenny job? You imagine they got a cartoon guy to do the voiceover And they're like no

[00:44:36] They hired a professional wrestler To do a silly voice Francis McDormand plays a silent nun in this movie Along with Bridget Hoffman And that's about it The Coen brothers are the photographers In the execution room Yes Ted Ramy pops up obviously Paul L. Smith It is funny

[00:44:59] He's one of those guys where you're like Of course he played Bluto They probably saw him on the street And they were like here he is Bluto in real life He's also Beast Rabban in Dune He's actually really good in David Lynch's Dune

[00:45:13] But the other thing with him Do you know this wild thing about I'm pulling this up because I want to get the specifics Terrence Hill And Bud Spencer were like the big Italian comedy duo In the 70s Oh yeah Terrence Hill from Super Fuzz Yes

[00:45:34] And there was a guy named Antonio Cantafora Who went by Michael Kobe Who was A Terrence Hill look alike And he cast Paul L. Smith Who is from Massachusetts And they essentially Did like rip off buddy movies Trying to trick the audience Into thinking they were seeing

[00:45:56] Terrence Hill And Bud Spencer Like he built this odd career In the 70s Sort of running concurrent with the end of the spaghetti western Shit where he did like 10 Italian buddy comedies And then Midnight Express And then he becomes Bluto Then he becomes an American comedy guy weirdly

[00:46:17] That's interesting because Super Fuzz Is how I know Terrence Hill And this movie has real Super Fuzz Vibes If you've ever seen it Starts with a guy in an electric chair Interesting But if that's the case It's funny because Oh Ernest Borgnine Is the second

[00:46:39] Banana in Super Fuzz Who he could also have been doubling For at some point Right There was some Burly bearded Italian guy Who Paul L. Smith became The poor man's option of for like 8 years With misleading posters that would make people Think they were seeing that guy's beard

[00:46:59] So Production starts in 1983 Halloween 1983 ends In January 1984 They shot it in Detroit Sam Raimi thought like this is perfect You know it's got kind of an out of time You know you can shoot in these like old Motor city you know Vintage hotels

[00:47:20] Right like that have kind of like a throwbacky Crimey feel I guess right You know just the kind of place where you'd imagine Like a bellhop is getting a drink and then a mobster Shows up or whatever you know All that shit And what I guess

[00:47:36] Everyone just says this movie Was an absolute nightmare to make It's partly that they shot it all at night I think it was freezing cold like Detroit In the winter is not exactly like Summery But I don't know like it just seems Like

[00:47:53] As much as the evil dead was also a nightmare To make everyone on the evil dead Was like in the club Right like everyone's like we're doing this together It's collaborative Blood sweat and tears right And this seems like Sam Raimi being confronted with a real movie

[00:48:07] Set and you know Having to adjust to all that weird Well there's a In the notes that JJ put together Of like He got them to approve a budget of 2.5 million Dollars but the thing that he didn't factor In when he budgeted it Was like union costs

[00:48:25] And like five other things That he had skirted on the evil dead Because he was making a small movie with his friends And all the money just went on screen So immediately They realized like we have not Given ourselves the budget necessary for this film

[00:48:40] And everything immediately cost like 30% more than they thought it would And then on top of that Raimi could not rein in his ambition So when things were difficult and they were running over Schedule he refused to compromise And simplify his Ideas

[00:48:56] This is unattributed from the Iron to be trivia Which is notoriously trustworthy But I just want to read this Because this feels like there are a lot of anecdotes Like this about the making of the film The crew spent a week filming

[00:49:08] On Detroit street after dark directly under a nursing Home with huge wind machines Blowing for long hours One evening a glass bottle with a note in it Crashed to the ground from an upper floor The note inside read The noise is keeping me awake all night long

[00:49:22] And I'm getting sick I am dying because of you Oh no Every story feels like that Where they're like they wanted to film this thing in the water But the water had frozen over with ice So they're using dynamite to blow up the water

[00:49:37] They had to blow up the water And you're like how is that a story about the making of the movie And not a thing that happens in the movie That's sick Who yeah also like What's that conversation where it's like fuck What do we do it's frozen over

[00:49:51] And one guy's like I'll call my dynamite guy Get some sticks Yeah Okay so let's see Wait Yeah the cinematographer is Robert Primes Who had just worked with Francis Ford Coppola On Rumblefish but he was like second unit on that So whatever But he and Ramey

[00:50:14] Seemed to vibe but I guess Ramey Would make demands such as I want to zoom into this guy's mouth And see a tongue and two teeth And then the actor will say the line And Primes would be like what are you talking about

[00:50:28] How the fuck am I supposed to do that You know what I mean it's like that Sam Raimey Thing of like he knows what he wants In his head and then he's Trying to explain it to crew members And they're like I've never done anything like that

[00:50:40] Before which god bless him Like you know it's good I love that Sam Raimey does this shit but It must have been crazy There's this Prime quote I like here Primes quote He said I couldn't understand Why would you do this Why would you zoom into somebody's mouth

[00:50:58] I'm a little older now and I understand It's incredibly entertaining It's an exaggeration I don't want to allude to the classical tradition of filmmakers It's his world view He also said like Sam would read the script And he'd go And was like acting it out

[00:51:15] The big impression I got was a comic book It didn't deal with the subtleties of human consciousness It didn't deal with indecision and grey tones It was almost like this was a bad guy And he's really really bad It almost seemed like caricatures Of two dimensional people

[00:51:29] Caricatures of two dimensional people Is a really good way to describe Right he takes Something like A one line description of a character And he's like but let's strip that down Like let's And also at the same time amp that up You know Sam Raimey He's ambitious

[00:51:49] He works really really hard A lot of people say it was a little exhausting He was maybe Moving too slowly for the studio's comfort He was maybe Not going to hit his budget target or whatever It's one of those things Where when you hear about it I'm like

[00:52:06] I imagine making this movie I would be pissed off And then of course This happens with movies where You read these stories and you're like Yeah but the final product Holy shit You read about freaking Mad Max Fury Road

[00:52:20] And you're like but it ended up being worth it right Like that's something to be proud of for the rest of your life And instead when it's Crime Wave And no one sees it And it becomes like the forgotten Sam Raimey movie

[00:52:31] It's difficult to make and it was sort of taken away from you And most people dislike it It's like The Coens I feel like just don't talk about it period And Raimey whenever he's asked about it Will offer like a one sentence quote Which is just like

[00:52:45] Just a miserable miserable episode of my life Will just like say one thing like that Part of me thinks that that's because For the Coen brothers in particular That they are It's so clearly Like the nascent stage of their bag of tricks

[00:52:59] And not that it's a limited bag But it's so clearly In the formative stages And I think that's embarrassing for them And they don't you know Because this movie feels like Fargo This movie feels like Hudsucker Proxy Even a little No Country for Old Men It does right

[00:53:17] So they don't want people to go back and see how Unformed they were At that point Same with Raimey probably too But for all the other reasons It's after Evil Dead It's like you've nailed this kind of once already But not with this budget I mean the money

[00:53:36] Like you're saying the budget of this movie Kind of ruined it I mean doomed it I would say Absolutely and that's why They had all control wrestled from them Because it was like This movie is a mess And the money people are on set

[00:53:52] And they're going like Sam we watched you do 30 takes Of this thing with the fan And he'd be like I don't have it yet And there was just like He just speaks very purely about Like I have a lot of respect for this

[00:54:06] I treat my crew with respect But we're like paying respect To the tradition of this thing And we have to get it right And I know what it is in my mind's eye Can I read this Prime's quote here about the car Did you see this one David

[00:54:22] Yeah that was the quote we should read Yes So Prime's Robert Prime's the DP says My little joke I used to make about this Is that to Sam Raimi when the script says The car pulls off the road

[00:54:35] That actually means that the car is in the right hand lane Of a busy freeway When suddenly the driver jerks the wheel left Goes into traffic Causing cars to spin out and tractor trailers to jackknife The car then jumps the divider Turning into oncoming traffic

[00:54:49] Which swerves around and then the car pulls off the road Six lanes over on the other side And that's what the car pulls off the road means to Sam Raimi And he never, would you agree Griffin He never loses that

[00:55:00] Except, I mean we'll talk about it in a while Like A Simple Plan Is kind of famous for The studio basically had someone on set being like Make sure he doesn't fucking move the camera Like a crazy person But it like takes that long

[00:55:14] And I think by the time he's making that movie He's more mature and he understands Like yeah I don't need the camera to go into anyone's mouth He's also talked about on that movie He was like I know I have this reputation

[00:55:24] I want to challenge myself to move the camera as little as possible Yeah But like by and large that is the Sam Raimi thing Where he's like why should one thing happen When eight things could happen really quickly And it would like you know

[00:55:36] It'll be this like little overload of joy For the viewer and I like it I was never happy when I was A teenage Sam Raimi fan Until I saw the You know the zoom The zoom in pull back I needed it

[00:55:53] I needed it at least once for a movie And I appreciate him for doing it As much as he did Look the week we're recording this There has been a lot of twitter piling on A real underdog movie A movie that has not gotten a fair shake

[00:56:07] Called Spider-Man No Way Home This movie has been embarrassed so roundly It was snubbed by the Oscars No one's giving it any respect Snubbed you say? Snubbed It's so rude of them to not nominate it Because people like that movie But the last week or two

[00:56:25] There's been a lot of people Because there was a video that went out Breaking down the effects of the movie And sort of like revealing how hermetically That movie was constructed and all this shit And saying like why does this look so bad

[00:56:37] Why does a movie this expensive look so bad And I don't mean to add onto this pile up But when this movie was coming out The director did interviews Where he said like because we're bringing And Defoe in We were like we need to have a Ramy cam

[00:56:52] We had a Ramy cam We established the language of the Ramy cam And we tried to shoot certain scenes With the Ramy cam sensibility And get into the head of like How Ramy would move his camera around this And it's not even that I feel like the movie

[00:57:06] Fails to emulate that style It does not even feel like they are attempting it And who knows if all of that Ended up on the cutting room floor Or it's chopped to ribbons Or it's little pieces that are unrecognizable

[00:57:19] But to that point when you're watching a Ramy movie Like you say Brennan Within the first ten minutes will be one of those moves Where you go like okay it's handled Yeah I feel at home now Right and kind of no one else really knows

[00:57:31] How to pull it off the same way I have not seen that film But In fact I had never heard of it It's a small Little underdog film The way you describe it it sounds like something I would probably check out

[00:57:47] You know something that may improve my soul a bit Absolutely David can you read this thing about the Luma crane For crying out loud Paraphrase it But I just think this is a very important story Relative to what we're talking about right now They wanted a luma crane

[00:58:05] A classic It's sort of the crane with the counterweight Right you guys know movies better than me You guys have been on sets You can put the camera at the top You can pan and zoom with the remote control You don't need a 200 pound person Holding your camera

[00:58:22] It's all lighter And the studio is like no You're playing with gadgets too much You can't have a luma crane They're like half way through production at this point We're not getting you another fucking New invented camera No we're not doing this

[00:58:38] And so Sam had used that shaky cam In Evil Dead where they had put the camera That's how they made all those crazy Camera shots work in Evil Dead But it's literally like two guys running Holding either side of a wooden plank With a camera nailed to it

[00:58:52] Correct And so with the shaky cam We went running down a block We had someone get out of a car She started running We run after her And there was nothing that looked like it Then the bad guy Paul Smith comes out

[00:59:08] And we turn around and we do a 180 degree move And we see all this crazy flashy stuff That they do basically for no money The studio sees the dailies Calls them on the phone And says how the fuck You were told no luma crane

[00:59:23] They assumed you must have slipped this by us Who gave you a luma crane And they were like we literally did that for 75 cents It's a piece of wood Which is great I love that Yes That's the stuff in this movie that remains so Infectious

[00:59:42] I guess we should try to run through the events Yeah give it a shot Yeah Brendan is the person who has seen this the most And Ben is the person who gave this 10 bonks Do you want to attempt to guide us Yeah sure

[00:59:56] I mean it makes perfect sense to me So I'm happy to Walk you through it A man is about to be executed He's in the chair He's being taken from his cell And he uses this time Does he seem though Like that he is you know

[01:00:14] Sort of accepting of this No he's still trying to get out of it He's having fun He is fighting it tooth and nail He is against this It's not a solemn sort of John Coffey Walk to the big chair No he claims that he is Innocent

[01:00:32] And so he's going to take this time This walk this drag if you will He's going to take this time To tell us his story And we've also like intercut At the very beginning of this movie These nuns silently driving In a fury listening to the radio

[01:00:49] Listening to the radio This imminent execution The radio announcer is giving us all the particulars And I didn't look it up I don't know who this guy is And I have forgotten about it It's one of the things that made me love this movie

[01:01:03] The guy dusting off the electric chair And then grinning and presenting the chair As he comes through the door That's just That's just golden shit That's very Hudsucker too You get this old guy with this face From wherever it's from There's the guy in Hudsucker

[01:01:21] Who paints the names on the door And scrapes them off Yes It's that beat and it's so good And it's in slow motion In this or he's just doing it very slowly I couldn't tell But it's so good These sort of haunted character actors

[01:01:40] With like Easter Island head faces Where you're just like What is this guy's What is this guy's life And why does he seem to get so much perverse glee Out of doing this horrible thing Yes they all do They're all just hard for it

[01:01:56] All of the governor wants this to happen Everyone behind the glass wants it to happen The Coen brothers who are taking the pictures Everyone wants this guy dead It's like an outing though too That's what's so fucked up People were just going to executions like that Yeah

[01:02:13] And it doesn't even seem like it's family members Who have some Who want to see some sort of Some sense of closure or justice They just are having a nice evening No the public hates the idea of this guy And they want to see him cry

[01:02:27] And it's funny too how public The crime wave Actually was once you see it In flashback Because to anyone who was witnessing It's very clear who was doing it Yeah it doesn't Not easily mistaken But he's seated in the chair And he finally gets to tell

[01:02:47] His story basically to us They're not listening And we find that he is Tech guy He's the guy installing the surveillance cameras For the Security consultants These guys who own a security Company They're sort of having like a Seleno and Barnes moment Where they're like splitting up

[01:03:12] Having been partners for many years Oh right because Bruce Campbell is going to turn it He's going to sell The one partner is going to sell it out From the other guy And Bruce Campbell, Rinaldo Is going to turn it into And the one Guy here Mr. Trend

[01:03:34] Who is the husband of Louise Lasser Is played by Edward Pressman Who also produced this movie Was like a humongous producer He was the heir To the Pressman toy Riches Like the board game and marble company And he grew up a movie nerd

[01:03:52] He was kind of like an original Megan Ellis I'm going to use my money to make good movies And he produced like Sisters, Badlands, Phantom of the Paradise Das Boot Conan the Barbarian This is sort of coming At the end of his Maybe original good run After this

[01:04:15] He produces True Stories but he also does The He-Man movie He does some Morgan movies after this But this is like his only real Acting credit Was he one of the Producers that Campbell didn't get along with I believe so It's very bizarre

[01:04:36] It's bizarre that he has this large of a role In the movie as an actor when that's not a thing he ever did And that it was this contentious Apparently he played a lonely cook In Street Fighter That is the only other acting credit I can find

[01:04:48] Which he also produced Like a decade after this That must have been like his last No he's still producing Well not still But he did do like Bad Lieutenant, Port-A-Call New Orleans And Wall Street Money Never Sleeps He's done movies in recent years

[01:05:06] Those are both because he produced the original movies He might have gotten grandfathered in But he produced like Fur the Diane Arbus movie Never Die Alone Party Monster The Cooler He's a wild career if you dig into it Ben he produced Crow franchise Oh wow Wait, Crow franchise

[01:05:29] You're saying The Crow And I guess there's A bunch of other movies City of Angels But I guess there's like a decent amount Of like straight to Video I've never seen any of those Are they good? The sequels? Never seen them I would say

[01:05:53] The others not so much Anyway Crime Wave You guys explain You guys are doing a great job I don't remember anything about the plot of this movie I watched it two days ago So Bruce Campbell is trying to break up the company He is buying the company out

[01:06:11] From the one guy selling out the other guy And the guy Pressman Mr. Trend And he hires these two exterminators To kill him Which by the way I love the machine That Brian James uses That he has a dial That he turns for rats or men

[01:06:34] And then later on in the movie heroes Come on that's a great bit Their look is incredible The look is incredible God damn if they had just Let him speak Use his actual voice There is that extended minute Shot Where Brian James Is waiting for the elevator

[01:06:57] And he won't stop cracking his neck And clicking his teeth I think that's why It feels incomprehensible Because every time They are on screen Like David said It's busy To the point where It didn't have to be a five minute

[01:07:17] This could have been two and a half minutes We got it But they did not want to cut those guys No all the Evil Dead movies Have for how manic And how fast moving they are They have like these moments Where Ramy will allow things to breathe

[01:07:33] Or reset for a moment And this movie is like operating at this energy At all times And there is so much stimuli At every single moment It's like the little ashes in Army of Darkness It's like the entire movie just populated with mini ashes

[01:07:48] Right and it's like the music is crazy And he's putting sound effects on it And the camera is doing crazy things And the actors are doing crazy things And the plot is dense So these guys get hired to kill The one partner Louise Lasser plays the wife

[01:08:04] Of Trend And they live across the street from the office And she witnesses them going in And Trend goes across the street To show her that it's no big deal Nothing is wrong I don't quite understand why he does that So she says Oh he's in danger

[01:08:24] Trend goes across the street To allay her fears So that she doesn't call the cops And while he's there He sees that Odegaard is dead Great shot cut there Then Brian James Pops up and kills him too Now everything you're saying Makes no sense As I'm saying it

[01:08:47] I'm getting confused Right There are specific scenes that are very interesting to watch But when you lay it out all end to end I do wonder Was this the plan Or is this more like The butchered thing they ended up with And at a certain point

[01:09:05] They were just like I don't know Just put it out I mean I can read about post production It's hard to tell Because I feel like When they do talk About it When Bramie talks about it And Campbell talks about it They don't talk about it as if

[01:09:28] We had this perfect movie and it was taken away from us They sort of talk about The production was a nightmare We didn't totally know how to execute what we were doing And then they took it away from us And made it worse

[01:09:40] I think they learned some lessons in clarity From this movie But this is not a situation where There is a perfect cut of that movie that exists Right Okay we should talk about meeting The Nerd kid Oh yes Meeting the nerd kid Well he's installing Video cameras in

[01:10:04] Trend's hallway Uh huh And Trend gives him a big speech At the door Where he basically says You've got to get yourself a girl It's a sort of quality of life Priorities speech Exactly And then he goes downstairs This guy Vic Who is our hero Goes downstairs

[01:10:33] Sees a beautiful woman almost get run over By an exterminator truck And saves her Or does he save her or just pick her up Uh He just picks her up But she's not that interested in him She's not interested And then Bruce Campbell Playing the role of Rinaldo

[01:10:53] The heel shows up and asks her out To a date that night Jesus this is an exhausting movie To summarize I mean And we're not even that far into the movie This is the first four minutes A bunch of murders start to happen That Vic is

[01:11:12] Being blamed for or whatever Also all these things happen Everything happens on a corner Everything happens catty corner To the other thing So like the apartment Building is catty corner from the Nightclub Yeah from the nightclub and from the security Office So everything is

[01:11:35] Taking place in this one Not even a block radius Just like one corner Three corner intersection Basically And that is very confusing That is never very well established Geographically No which also it's the cameras moving around So fucking much There's no continuity For all the money

[01:11:59] They definitely I don't think had a script supervisor Who was paying much attention There's like some moment where she Drops a pot from the window But then the way that the camera moves It's like just so confusing And like it's like she was across the street

[01:12:13] And now she's on this side of the street Yeah There's some stuff like that Yeah you don't realize that he's actually directly below her window At that time It seems like he's across the street It's a fucking mess It's kind of a mess

[01:12:29] I mean I think we could even just say like Though go on some kind of date Or like we should just talk about the nightclub section Maybe before we get to the hijinks This is where my wife goes Oh the mask She's like you know because

[01:12:44] It's a good call So much like the mask Yeah And especially with Bruce Campbell And they're doing that you know That character The mask also takes place In kind of a A world of gangsters That is not quite like our

[01:13:04] Right like in that weird sort of heightened reality Beyond the fact that the mask is there Of course Yeah exactly All the gangsters in the mask operate like 1940s Gangsters and it takes place In this odd brightly colored metropolis At night Right Yeah

[01:13:24] But they're like playing swing music It's like what like yeah How much the mask is kind of executing What they were trying to do with this movie In a way that was palatable to audiences By going like well there's a crazy supernatural Explanation for everything

[01:13:39] That's the thing and that's why The normal Ramy Camera stuff And absurdity doesn't work because there is no supernatural Right there's no supernatural element There's no demons flying or anything And there's no initial grounding Element None whatsoever I will say also It reminded me so much

[01:14:00] Also of Who Framed Roger Rabbit Which was only what Two or three years later Because it's got Yeah yeah like four years later maybe It's that same That same tone That same leaning into the slapstick The cartoon elements Of it And the throwback Gangsters Yeah

[01:14:26] Once we get to the nightclub The Rialto is it called? Very good Very good Brendan Five memory points A lot of the quotes you read from Campbell Talking about this movie Is just sort of like We all maybe were too ambitious And too in love with the idea

[01:14:46] Of what if we put together All these different genres That we like And what if you had And all that sort of shit And like a 30s Warner Brothers gangster picture You know Everything just smushed together But the comedy is very contemporary And very like What's the

[01:15:09] Where you believe in nothing God I can't think of the term Nihilistic It's very nihilistic It feels very though of the moment I don't know why The style of comedy is very Stupid or bad Like all the good people are dumb They don't really understand what they're doing

[01:15:29] And all the bad people are like really bad And yes unlike Roger Rabbit and Mask Which like would become huge hits But had like a clean explanation For why the world is like this Right This movie just expects you to go

[01:15:43] And you're on the same wavelength as these guys Right And it does feel like a movie that was written by them At like 3 o'clock in the morning With their common reference base If it worked It would work There are movies like this that grab you by the hand

[01:16:00] And race you through all kinds of mania And you go with it Because you're on board for whatever Because Like you say Griffin Maybe because there's one character You can identify with Or one sort of emotional through line Crime wave might even work

[01:16:18] I think if the mystery of like Specific But instead it's kind of not The framing device is kind of irrelevant Like you know But I agree with you That it doesn't feel like an ill-begotten movie Like it does feel like You understand what they were trying to do

[01:16:37] And what they were trying to do was so ambitious And so alchemical That it was really hard to pull off Before all these It would have been hard to execute just on artistic creative basis Before all these other factors come into play So should we talk though about

[01:16:51] Just basically meeting Bruce Campbell's character And like the heel And just all of the great fucking lines He is delivering Like as this character I just feel in very safe hands when he's on screen So do I Exactly And that's the struggle with this movie

[01:17:11] Is just like wanting him to be there more My favorite line he says at the bar After he leaves her He's talking to that other woman at the bar And we zoom in on him from a distance And you hear him say Oh the cab?

[01:17:26] Oh no no sorry That's later when he's walking past the storefront window And he says The cab? You'll pay for that I don't want to break a hundred Which I mean it's a line And you barely hear it And it's great The cab? You'll pay for that

[01:17:44] I haven't seen you before It's a good line It's so funny that Rami was like well this guy is clearly my leading man I'm gonna write the leading man Part for him And they write this part that like From a modern perspective you're like

[01:18:00] It would have been weird to have Bruce Campbell play that part But I'm even just thinking back to a couple Weeks or months ago whenever we recorded our Fucking Evil Dead 1 episode Where he is so innocent And sweet and like soft And delicate in that movie

[01:18:15] And he's like this very self aware Bruce Campbell We know today And here they throw him this consolation role And try to beef it up to get him on set And in the process Accidentally create what then will become The dominant Bruce Campbell archetype Right?

[01:18:31] Like what he plays in this kind of becomes His main stock in trade for the next couple of decades Whether it's done well or poorly But like this is what they're Casting him to do in Congo You know like this is the arched eyebrows

[01:18:44] Smug, punchable, but still funny Kind of like glib Arrogant macho dude And then like Ash even turns Into this more and more It is funny That there's this sort of like secret gift Here in how hard Campbell Kills this role That both like helps Ramy

[01:19:04] Know how to use him even better Going forward and also Becomes the thing that people typecast him for Such a good point But he is yes, you're watching a guy who's just like So in the fucking pocket Not only that but

[01:19:18] He understands the tone of this movie perfectly Perhaps because he's got a really Established relationship with Ramy And can tap into What Ramy wants in a way that maybe others Can't I don't know And they're giving him all the best lines for that reason Yeah

[01:19:34] A lot of the best stuff happens in the In the nightclub Setup I will say that I'll segue into my favorite bit By getting back to the plot for a second Rinaldo the heel And what's her name Nancy right Nancy Rinaldo the heel and Nancy

[01:19:55] Are on a date It's not going well As evidenced by the first thing we hear She says I'm not that kind of girl And he says well with a little practice You can learn to be It's never a good sign And then Vic shows up and basically

[01:20:11] Crashes the date Well isn't it I've seen this 29 times less than you But is it sort of that he was motivated By Trent's Speech to be like I have to chase After that woman Yeah exactly He's gotta take the bull By the horns

[01:20:33] And he's gotta go get the gal This was like another weird budget The first thing was the cabin In the first evil dead Cost them $2000 To rent for the entire Duration of the production And this set for the Rialto Cost them $30,000 And his whole budgeting

[01:20:54] Of the movie was based on him knowing What things cost on evil dead And then it's like here's a location We need just for 10 minutes of the film Their first offer is 10 And then they start upping the number And everything just kind of escalated like that

[01:21:09] And that's why they have to spend so much time In the nightclub I imagine Yes and there's another thing where the person Who owned the building demanded That all the extras be like members of his club Is that right A building it had previously

[01:21:23] Been a hotel it was gonna be turned to a retirement home The first two Offers from production were $10,000 $20,000 both of which were rejected Then they agreed to $30,000 on the condition That the building's owners would be extras drinking Martinis in the hotel ballroom Literally the story of every

[01:21:41] Shitty little movie I've ever made Right Why are the producers here The gift is that they didn't demand Fucking dialogue that's the worst version Of that set which you and I have both Been on My son here wants to be an actor Some guy in suspenders

[01:21:59] That's what I always say Come on you know my son Jimmy here He's funny He's funny Tell him the joke you tell me Jimmy Come on look at that face Guy making a frame with your fingers Anyway What happens later I really like the sequence With the doors

[01:22:26] The walls The doors is great But the sequence in the dance contest Because Ronaldo leaves her Stiffs her with the check She has no interest in Vic But she says can you loan me What is it $36 And he says I would love to

[01:22:44] But I don't have the money And then the announcer says There's a dance contest About to happen They hard cut to them Starting the dance contest You think there's going to be this whole Number and then there's a whip pan It's one of the better

[01:23:03] You saying where this movie fails Is often with the set up punchline Verbal jokes That whole exchange of $36 I wish I never carry that amount Of money around with me on my person To then the announcer Saying that the prize money Is exactly $36 Like that's a pretty fun

[01:23:23] Cartoon logic run of lines It's so good And then to get into The kitchen where they're washing dishes Is great follow through Ok I have a question About this trope of washing dishes Because you can't pay the check Has anyone ever Actually done that Truly

[01:23:46] Tell me one person That you have ever met in your fucking Life That is like I don't have any money What am I going to do Put me to work We gotta file all your paperwork Do you have an I-9 Here's my question Where is the dishwasher

[01:24:06] Does he get off the night Did they just plan on always having someone Not being able to pay the check On certain nights Are they always one dishwasher Sure in order to accommodate For Dine and Dashers Attempted Dine and Dashers Well the dishwasher can always hold out hope

[01:24:24] That someone will come To Dine and Dash And then he'll get off early That's one perk I used to be a dishwasher And that's something we thought about all the time Really You were always waiting Always waiting Maybe somebody will come And not have their $36

[01:24:47] I wonder if it's a reference To some silent film Or some very famous bit In a film from so long ago It never actually happened in society But it happened once as a punchline And now it gets perpetuated As if we're riffing on the actual Real world occurrence

[01:25:05] Yeah and it was such a huge thing This movie was so big In 1929 That everyone talked about it for two years But we don't remember the original I say what we should do Listeners is go to a restaurant No money No cash I'll head in the back

[01:25:26] I'm ready to do some dishes Roll up your sleeves And see how that goes You probably will end up being arrested Ben I agree You absolutely should try this If not at least start getting it going Make it more pervasive So it makes sense

[01:25:44] You want to at least get the ball rolling So when someone else Asks for that the restaurant will be like Yeah sure we know about this I found a What's it called Quora The like question answer website Do restaurants allow someone to wash dishes

[01:26:03] As compensation if they cannot pay Top answer No they won't Are you sure If you don't have the money to pay for a meal That you've eaten one of three things will happen One the restaurant will ask you to leave something

[01:26:17] That you'll return for when you've retrieved the funds to pay them Two depending on the mood of the owner And the reasons that you've forgotten your method of payment They may simply say forget it and come to your meal This will rarely happen

[01:26:27] And no one should expect this to occur when they dine out Option number three They will call the police and have you cited or arrested For fraud Oh that's fraud That's not theft Defrauding an innkeeper is a serious Offense in a number of states

[01:26:43] So you may find that your meal costs you far more Than if you had simply paid for it in the first place I would love to go to jail For defrauding an innkeeper As long as they phrase it that way Right DFI It's another DFI

[01:27:00] I agree that Ben should absolutely try this But you should go in and order the menu And be like I'll give you a week of dishes You go in there You eat 18 courses And then you're like sorry How many dishes would the fettuccine alfredo cost Yeah right

[01:27:18] So if I want to get a dessert Can I maybe come On Wednesday To do dishes for a couple hours If we add that on It's basically your interview It's your job interview Stealing a delicious meal I'd like to work for this restaurant I have no money

[01:27:38] I want to leave a good tip Can I clean some cutlery as well How many knives would it take To equal 20% Anything else about crime Explain the doors falling The most Looney Tunes Text Avery sequence Of this movie Why is that happening At some point

[01:28:03] She gets away from him He's come up to I keep having to go back She gets away from Crush who's trying to kill her Because she saw him Kill someone And she gets away from him After a whole series

[01:28:22] I'm amazed you want to skip the rug pulling sequence No we can talk about that I cannot order these things in my brain That is the problem I do not remember what happens when It's not that we don't want to talk about them

[01:28:34] You're the only one who understands She gets away from Crush She runs to the office Where she thinks her husband Is maybe still there I mean she's delusional at this point She gets away from him She gets into the back where apparently They have a demo

[01:28:53] I don't remember what it's called The most secure hallway In the world or something like that Yeah the most secure hallway in the world Something to that effect Which she clearly knew about Because it's her husband's company And it's a series of doors

[01:29:09] That really it's just a door That leads to another door It feels like the Get Smart opening It's this idea of this location is so secure You have to go through 18 different types of doors To get to the heart of the thing

[01:29:21] But only the last one has a lock on it Right And yeah It's just a great And then some sort of balletic music starts playing And it becomes Very Bugs Bunny I love that sequence And the doors are all different colours And they all start falling on him

[01:29:41] As he's chasing her And so really to just tie it all together Because I think this plot Is like whatever confusing Is the wife Gets away but then Goes into a box She gets away from these basically two maniacs But she goes into a box that's like

[01:30:00] You know going to be mailed to Abu Dhabi Or something like it's that joke And then really we have The couple We can call them a couple I guess Like whatever though Vic And then the girl after being done with dish washing

[01:30:14] They kind of run into these maniacs And then it's basically A couple of sequences of them Just like kind of fighting each other More or less right Is that kind of how to structure it Huge freeway car chase That is 19 minutes too long Probably

[01:30:34] But it's very technically impressive And when you read the reviews of the movie At the time Even the most dismissive ones Are like this end car chase Kind of Implies that this guy might have some talent Yeah exactly this guy isn't an idiot behind the camera Or anything

[01:30:53] That's like when a new president Bombs a new country and people say This is the day he became president That's what a car chase Well a relatively well executed Car chase is for film critics Sorry David No it's true

[01:31:10] I love when Vic goes up to the old guy Right and he's like I need your car He starts explaining something And the old guy just goes Do you love her? That's such a fucking solid joke I think that's so funny It is and it should also crush

[01:31:26] At that point right I should be like cheering This is Vincent Camby's quote From the New York Times His review of this movie He said The only problem is that it's not funny One smiles at the inspiration of the jokes Though not at their execution

[01:31:44] The chase that ends the movie is something Of a technical defeat but it remains as dimly Humorless as a smart film student's essay On how to shoot a chase And that's like sort of the most positive review I've gotten Right it's kind of the reaction that 1941 got

[01:31:58] Obviously 1941 was on a much more massive scale But that was the thing Where the reviews were kind of like This guy's obviously very technically Why isn't this movie funny? Why is it kind of a drag? Why is it yelling at me? Why is it a little too

[01:32:15] It's just hard to hit that carefree tone I guess but also some people love 1941 Some people love Crimeway Yeah and I support them Look here's some post production stuff The studio didn't like the movie They said it should be totally Flashbacks They made them

[01:32:33] Go to LA and do extensive Reshoots all the Hutzucker penitentiary stuff All of the bookends They're like that'll make it make more sense I think that was a good call I think it does make the movie make a lot more sense

[01:32:45] It gives it a little more of a spine They basically were like We need a beginning and an ending That explains the middle A.K.A. the movie you presented Bruce Campbell says You know It was horrible It was a very depressing time Because I guess

[01:33:08] This is what had not happened to them On Evil Dead They're presenting a rough cut to the studio And the studio is like Well this doesn't work And Rami and Campbell are thinking We'll figure it out Give us a minute And they're like no No no no no

[01:33:28] Get out of the way We're going to deal with this I hate the music The music is kind of annoying The thing that Daluca said When he was Loduca I'm sorry The thing Loduca said When he was pitching the producers On his take for it

[01:33:51] With these sorts of parody films Like Airplane They play the music really straight They're not doing a comedy score They're doing a score that sounds like And they got scared off By him saying I'm going to play the music really straight He did say that Rami

[01:34:09] Brought him back to do like The final reel or two of the movie So the car chases his music Again They ended up letting him do a little bit of it Sort of away from watchful eyes But yes the score is not great It's a little too much

[01:34:25] The movie kind of Was taken to film festivals around the world It just came out in like dribs and drabs Bruce Campbell said they did a very nice screening At the Seattle Film Festival Where the host came on stage Before the movie and was like

[01:34:40] This movie is silly Prepare to watch a silly movie And Campbell's like That was the only good reaction we got And I think it's because the audience Was well prepared for what they were about to watch It is wild I mean when we talk about movies that have

[01:34:56] Bad marketing or things like that It's the way people perceive movies The frame that they're like put within Where a guy can get up on stage and use the word Silly 30 seconds before the movie starts And it will play okay And Bruce Campbell also said

[01:35:10] That was the screening that his mom was at Yes that's right So that she likes the movie And he is like grateful that she saw the only time It ever played well with a crowd Right what's it called Embassy dumped the movie

[01:35:24] They did not give it a proper release So it needed to get a perfunctory Number of days in theaters In different cities in order for it to get Whatever the pre-agreed HBO amount was So they released it in like random cities They released it in Kansas and Alaska

[01:35:41] Which is funny It did do a run It screened in 7 theaters total apparently It did do a 2 day run in New York City 2 days Can't even give it a whole weekend And the 2 days were Wednesday and Thursday But with all this said The reviews were not Cruel

[01:36:04] They were all basically This thing is funny in moments And interesting It just doesn't totally work It was kind of It's funny The Canby review References Eating Raul Which is one of the greatest movies of the 80s And he's like there's a guy who knows

[01:36:24] How to present the aesthetic And present the jokes And all that And he's like And Ramy's kind of going for that But he's not getting it And Canby's like Bartel's the only one Who knows how to do this Everyone else is failing

[01:36:42] And a lot of the reviews have the exact same tone You see in like Raising Arizona reviews A year or two later than this Where you're like we get it This movie is more storyboarded Than it is directed Look at all your references We get it

[01:37:01] You're very smart You're very clever You have a lot of energy Is there any perspective here Yeah David Edelstein kind of liked it In the Village Voice That's uh Called it a Jerry Lewis extravaganza About serial killers You know Sometimes Ramy's so badly

[01:37:23] That he's like I guess I'll make the Evil Dead again Like that's the only thing I can do The thing he actively resisted the first time But I Having seen this now And we recorded these episodes out of order We did the three Evil Deads first Weirdly

[01:37:39] Not intentionally but we just did the one two three No we did all three Evil Deads in a row For whatever weird reason They're now filling in the gaps of the movies In between the Evil Deads This movie in between really Helps clarify the leap

[01:37:54] In Ramy's style between Evil Dead one and two Not just I think the confidence And the sort of like focus of it Of knowing he cannot let the thing get ripped out of his hands again But also that he is incorporating More of the manic comedy

[01:38:08] Of this movie into Evil Dead two Like it feels like he wants to prove That he can make the cartoon movie work And not just do another You know I'm happy it exists I guess that's my take on crime And I'm happy Ben loved it

[01:38:25] And obviously that Brendan has such a soft spot for it Here's my genuine takeaway from this movie I want to watch it again Like I want to For as much as I think it's flawed Watching it the first time I was like

[01:38:37] This sucks that I'm only watching this for the first time And I'm not going to have as good of an understanding Of this as Brendan does I want to dig through this movie enough That I can sort of make sense of it

[01:38:47] And I'm really carried over by the Energy and the style of this thing I'd like to see it in a theater I know that's not something that happens often But like that might be fun To try and lock in with it more in a dark room

[01:38:59] It was like a little You know it wasn't perfect to watch this At like 10am you know one morning When I'm just kind of like sitting down with my coffee I don't know Brendan are there any larger Ramy thoughts You want to share here

[01:39:13] Since this is the one episode you get to appear on LRT's I get to have an LRT If you want to throw out an LRT Larger Ramy thoughts I don't know I think we Is Darkman still your favorite Like is that or no That was your entree

[01:39:32] But like what's your top Ramy That was my entree I still love Darkman I watched Darkman as recently as You know 8 years ago And I think it still fucks Yeah it fucks I think it's my favorite Bruce Campbell very end Last shot of the movie

[01:39:50] No it's not my favorite Ramy anymore And when I stopped watching Sam Ramy Films You know I did it with a vengeance I'm interested in what happens When you guys get to Jesus the Oz movie I never even saw it Brendan it's the only movie he's made

[01:40:08] In the last 10 years Right I'm excited to watch it There is something about the Ramy With unlimited resource That felt to me Like such a huge budget movie And that I just Didn't see it being good Having seen all Of his films And I don't know

[01:40:33] This is an interesting film to talk about Because it's the first time he had to work with You know a budget And producers who didn't give a shit About his passion And his particular Vision And then you know Once he gets into The Spider-Man

[01:40:54] That's kind of the world He lives in But what's weird about it Is like You go like well and then Of course he had this transformation To being this big blockbuster filmmaker And you're like he made three Spider-Man movies He did one sort of throwback Smaller horror movie

[01:41:14] And then one more big blockbuster And that's been the last 20 years of his career And now he's returning for the first time in 10 years To make another Marvel superhero movie Like you almost expect That oh he got sucked into the Spider-Man thing

[01:41:26] And then he made like four more big movies Like that Right no Drag Me to Hell is great You either expect that he would make more small movies Like that or that he would make Three more movies like Oz And then he makes like the classic like Bertany

[01:41:41] Like he just got sucked into this system And swallowed whole And instead he just seems a little heartbroken And has been sitting on the sidelines But that's why Drag Me to Hell is so frustrating Where I'm like you literally did the thing That we ask these big shots

[01:41:55] Who then get kind of sucked into blockbuster world To do which is basically like You know sure make the giant movies Work in the top echelons Of the studio system But then use that clout to occasionally It makes everyone some money It's good no one's mad

[01:42:11] He did that it worked Like it was we'll talk about this later It was successful And he didn't do it again And no one else does it Like it's just odd I mean I know he produced And he you know gives the spotlight to other directors

[01:42:27] Like when he's doing that And that's like that is defensible Like that's a real thing But you think about within all those Ghost House deals And no one would object to that And what's more surprising about it Is all the different types of sort of

[01:42:42] Blank check career narratives That we've covered on this show Drag Me to Hell is like this very rare example Of a filmmaker who successfully Goes home again Right like goes to the upper echelons And then is like I'm gonna make like a smaller movie

[01:42:56] Like I did at the beginning of my career And almost always that doesn't work It can't go backwards You know You know Like I don't know how to make something For under 150 million dollars anymore Anything I adapt is gonna become huge And unwieldy

[01:43:15] Or they try to like roll back And act like they're a younger less knowledgeable filmmaker And the movie feels like it has artificial Breaks on it or something But Drag Me to Hell totally fucking works And it's like you did that that worked

[01:43:27] You did Oz that didn't work And then he just spent a decade going like I don't really know what to do anymore Should we play the box office game Griffin? I have some final thoughts Oh Ben kick off Damn cause we Birthdayed

[01:43:43] We birthday carded the shit out of that fucking plot It's alright though whatever I just feel like We birthday carded the shit out of that plot You mean birthday sign right Whatever Yeah big B and then it's like We fucking are just trailing off

[01:43:59] I like this term of like I wish I had written something so quick it could fit inside a birthday card Alright It's funny when after they have this Terrible I guess date or whatever She's just yelling at him No bright side No bright side I felt that

[01:44:18] I also felt when you know The little rat guy is like sadly You broke my shocker Like he really whoever did that In the VO booth crashed You know what that reminded me Brian James hiding in her apartment While Reed Bernie has his eyes closed

[01:44:34] And he's literally right next to him Like taking the coat from him And going Don't come in yet That bit crushes That bit crushes It's a bit crusher Speaking of bit crushers The rat guy rides the big rat That's on top of their truck That fucking rips

[01:44:56] Big rat in general The over extended wind up For the fact that the guy is going to get Knocked out by the bridge Like how Long they belabor that is really funny And then I'll just say Lastly because I think The end Is such a funny button

[01:45:17] That it's gotta get shouted out Oh it's maybe the best joke In the entire movie Truly I think it was like maybe the one time Where I really like You're talking the newspaper Yeah newspaper is like I wanted to shout out because to me

[01:45:34] It's maybe one of the funnier Ways I've seen using that Like gag It's a very Preston Sturges thing I feel like he does gags like this a number of times But all the nuns show up in time right before The switch is gonna get flipped

[01:45:48] They're all freaking out They hold the information to exonerate him But they've taken this vow of silence So they don't know whether to speak or not And then the guy sort of Like the governor goes like too bad The guy's ready to switch the flip

[01:46:02] And then it cuts to like spinning newspaper As the flip goes down Flip the switch What am I saying Hero executed And you're like that's a bleak ending And then the camera goes down Dot dot dot almost nuns bring 40 year vow of silence That's a perfect joke

[01:46:20] Yes but did you stay tuned for the post credit sequence No what's the post credit sequence Yeah it's Louise Lasser In a box In wherever she got shipped to Sri Lanka or something Uruguay And you don't even see her You just see the box on a mountain top

[01:46:41] Shaking and her going hey let me out of here I like this This is the post credit sequence It doesn't really tee us up for a sequel But maybe it does Maybe do it now What if Rami was like I'm back Crime wave 2 baby

[01:46:57] And the Coens were like we're on board And Reed Burnie was like I'm hotter than ever I'm swinging in It's crime wave 2 but it's a horror movie It's a horror version of crime wave Right they go in the opposite direction of evil dead This time it's brutal

[01:47:11] Well I want to play the box office game mostly And shout out Of course to Mark Yuvari We're going to keep shouting him out Who a blanky who programmed The website Where there is now a wordle style box office game That you can play along with everyday

[01:47:28] That's incredible Right so I'm just very excited about this one Because it is literally the box office game of my birth This is it We've never done it before We'll probably never do it again Army of darkness was my birthday weekend

[01:47:42] But not of the year I was born I don't think we've done that You haven't done that one yet Totally random but here we go We're going to play crime wave opening number 24 At the box office for $3000 So let's not talk about that It's not bad actually

[01:47:59] All considering actually It's better than any movie I've been in Well same unfortunately Right we've got number 1 It's a fantasy film Okay I would say it's a film I think I'm going to triple check this Yeah it was a disappointment Because this was a pretty

[01:48:19] It was a movie from a very big director And it didn't actually do that well Is it willow? It's not willow It's the other one Legend? It's Ridley Scott's legend Which is not an entirely successful movie But it is one of the fucking coolest looking movies

[01:48:37] You'll ever see Yes It's just kind of incredible That's like the one time Cruz like fundamentally put his ships down He's obviously made worse movies It's a good movie Yeah yeah But it was a bad career decision for him But on paper it wasn't at all

[01:48:58] It was you know Ridley Scott coming off of Blade Runner Is making a fucking fantasy action movie Like you're the star With a big sword It should work But he's like weirdly bad casting For that movie I would say Like it doesn't play to his strengths

[01:49:14] He doesn't totally He makes sense in that he's very pretty And like that's sort of the vibe But no he's not well cast Tim Curry obviously is sort of the main event Of Legend. Have you seen Legend Brendan? Oh yeah That was a big HBO movie for me

[01:49:30] When I was a kid Yeah good HBO movie I gotta clarify It feels like him putting his ships on the wrong place Only because it's maybe the only movie Tom Cruise Was in post Risky Business That doesn't feel like a Tom Cruise movie

[01:49:45] Where you're just like oh and he's in it as an actor It's the year before Top Gun It's the one in between Risky Business And Top Gun It's wild. Top Gun is the thing that makes him Tom Cruise 100% It's in between those early Tom Cruise appearances

[01:50:01] Like Risky Business and All The Right Moves And The Outsiders where you're like oh it's like baby Cruise And Top Gun where you're like Tom Cruise the movie star Like it's the one in between He needed to go to He needed to go to the brother

[01:50:14] He picked the wrong Scott The wrong brother So look I like Legend And it's number 2 in it's second week But it's only made 8 million dollars Wait I have a procedural question Are these just for Griffin? No you can swing in Swing in if you want Okay copy that

[01:50:36] Number 2 at the box office Is a comedy that again I thought of as kind of a flop But it wasn't It was a very solid hit Starring one of the sort of major comedy stars Of the 80s Who is In the 80s He was a comedy star

[01:50:56] It's not Fletch I'm calling him a comedy star of the 80s But that's a little deceptive He leaps to much more of a mainstream So is it a Robin Williams? Not Robin Williams He makes a bigger leap to mainstream Is it an SNL guy? No

[01:51:15] Although he is a famous SNL host Is it Tom Hanks? Is it Splash? It's not Splash Is it Tom Hanks in Bachelor Party? Is it Joe vs. The Volcano? It's not Joe vs. The Volcano That was a flop That one actually did badly Is it the dog movie?

[01:51:35] No it's not Turner and Hooch Where is it in his career? Not big This is a hit This movie made 37 million dollars A totally solid 10 million dollar budget It's not Splash He's starring alongside a sitcom star Is it the Shelley Long movie? It is The Money Pit

[01:52:01] They bought this house And they gotta refurbish it If I can do a second shout out To a friend of the show Connor Ratliff When I was in the hospital recovering From my organ surgery He FaceTimed me With He had ordered a promotional Money Pit Greeting card

[01:52:26] That was like a baby announcement card To announce the arrival Of this summer's funniest hit Or whatever the fuck Connor reading that was so funny to me That I was truly like I had stitches And was trying not to laugh And I had to hang up on him

[01:52:43] And then he sent me it Like two weeks later So I now have in my bathroom just taped to the wall This fucking Money Pit promotional We're announcing a new hit comedy Card And I still didn't get the name of the movie right

[01:52:57] Have any of you seen The Money Pit? I have never seen The Money Pit I know The Money Pit as an expression I know people who defend it I know people who are very pro Money Pit I think it's Shelley Long Like right off of leaving Cheers

[01:53:11] Right like she's still in the sort of She's bouncing out of Cheers People are like oh is Shelley Long Going to be the thing Right you know like she hasn't quite Started to fall off And you know Tom Hanks charming Well Tom Hanks is a great actor

[01:53:27] I mean he's a great actor But he's also a great actor Well Tom Hanks is very charming It is interesting how much Shelley Long Is framed as one of those great examples Of like an actor who didn't know how good they had it

[01:53:40] And they were on this hit show and they left And look what they got for it But she had like a pretty good run of hits right off of Cheers It didn't last But she had like three or four successful movies In a row right off of Cheers

[01:53:52] Yeah well Outrageous Fortune That was like a successful enough movie With that Midler Yeah no she had a little run there I watched it Not all the way through It was on TV I just want to say there's a funny bit

[01:54:08] Where Tom Hanks he gets kind of stuck Inside a rug That goes through a hole in a ceiling So that he doesn't fall through And he gets stuck suspended there And then he's there for hours and hours And hours and then later they're fighting The couple you know

[01:54:24] She comes home and she's like oh you really Want me to help you get out of this I was like wow Does he do stuff for comedy? Like oh my God Like he's not an actor So he plays a character But they've got a helping hand

[01:54:41] And one of them was authentic We saw him play Classic oue Like I was like wow So he's like I really want you to help me And they're like well you do this And then he goes home And the love story of Timmy Hardwicke

[01:54:55] And then he gets stuck one of the major studios. It's a canon movie? It's a canon film. Okay. And it's got, you know, a very canon film star sort of on the back end of his career and a title that is like a famous expression.

[01:55:12] It's not a Chuck Norris. No. Is it a, um, is it a Charles Bronson? It's a Charles Bronson. Okay. And the title is an expression. It's called you win some, you lose some. Uh, look, what can I tell you about this movie?

[01:55:33] Uh, it's from J Lee Thompson, uh, who I think did a planet of the apes. He obviously, yes. I think he did the last one. Yeah. It's got Kathleen Wilhite, uh, who we all know of course from her work in ER and Gilmore girls. Okay.

[01:55:51] And it's, um, look, Charles Bronson is playing an antisocial LAPD detective. Can you give us a hint about the saying? What kind of saying it is? It's not a saying exactly. It's like a phrase that means things will always turn out like the worst possible way.

[01:56:08] Live and let live. All right. The movie is called Murphy's law. Murphy's law. Well, David, that was the hint you were trying to give. But doesn't fucking interstellar your most beloved movie of all correct that interpretation

[01:56:24] of Murphy's law and not saying the most, the worst thing that could happen will happen, but that anything that could happen will happen. That in interstellar is him being nice to his daughter. Murphy's law is anything that can go wrong will go wrong. That is the classic thing.

[01:56:38] Of course it is only a Christopher Nolan movie where a character would be upset about being named after a phrase or whatever the fuck that storytelling device is. I love interstellar to be clear. Murphy's law. Look, Murphy's law seems like a blast.

[01:56:52] I got to say, yeah, let's get out Charles Bronson. He's a hard bitten cop. His ex-wife has become a stripper and he's mad about it. His career is going nowhere by drinking and then he is framed by an ex con.

[01:57:08] So he starts killing people to deal with that. I'm not gonna. Yeah. Okay. So there you go. Okay. I don't know. Like Murphy's law was like a ska band. You could have just said Murphy's law was like, we all could have said that.

[01:57:24] We all could have said that. And actually we failed you Ben. I'm sorry. It is funny. I'm sorry. I'm just looking here, but Murphy's law is one of three Charles Bronson thrillers that

[01:57:32] comes out in the year in between death wish three and death wish for the man was churning them out and it's, and it's a death wish plot is right. Absolutely. Also Charles Bronson is a punk band.

[01:57:45] We all knew that Ben didn't seem to hear anyone else bringing up number four at the box office is a comedy sequel, a comedy sequel in 1985 in this economy, in this economy. Okay. Was the sequel a flop?

[01:58:04] I feel like a lot of comedy sequels were at this time. Huge success. $12 million budget, $107 million worldwide. This was a part of a hugely popular series of comedies. Okay. And it did fall off over the years. Is it police Academy too?

[01:58:20] It's not police Academy too, but it is police Academy something. Oh, okay. Academy three. And what's the subtitle on that one? Fuck. Okay. So I always failed. No citizens on patrol. Of course is police Academy for, okay. Is this their first assignment? No, that is of course.

[01:58:41] So three is what happens in between a first assignment and being on patrol. It's back to training. They had to go back and train and got to go back to training. Got to go back and training. Yes. This film directed by Jerry Paris. Never get it right.

[01:58:58] As many times as I always fuck up. It's a gear pair pick. Police Academy three, huge hit. Everything's still going great for police Academy at this point. That is one of those things where if you look at eighties or seventies comedies, it's like

[01:59:14] the first one, huge hit a hundred million dollars. The second one, moderate hit $20 million. Like there'd be this huge drop off police Academy street. It stayed strong until like four. Uh, yes, exactly. I like that guy where he does sound effects.

[01:59:28] You, you, there's a guy in police Academy does sound effects. Yeah. No, David is crazy. So he'll be thinking of a different movie. Ben, if this happened in police Academy, I would remember it. No, no, it definitely happens. Trust me. It comes up. Yeah.

[01:59:42] But David, he'll be like, you'll, you know, like it's like if you close your eyes, it's like, wow, is he going up in an elevator? But he's not. No, no one could do that. No one could do that with just the human mouth and throat.

[01:59:53] No one could do that. Not only that, Ben, if it were in the movie, I assume it would just be a cameo. Certainly you could not build a major character across all the films whose primary characteristic is making sound effects like he's in an elevator.

[02:00:05] It's in the movie and it's seamless. That's not true. Every time, seamless every time. All right. Look, number five of the box office is not a film I know. OK. It is a good. Hey, it's a romantic drama starring two pretty major stars to Oscar winners. Yeah.

[02:00:23] Here's the more interesting thing. It's directed by the husband of the lead actress. And this guy, you might you'll know him, Griff, but he's not known as a director. He's more known for his his work in in another, you know, cinematic field is his craft writer. No.

[02:00:43] Is this a Caleb de Chanel movie? No, no. I'm trying to marry. Good guess. Oscar winning star. But that type of person you're saying. Right. He was a production designer. Mostly he directed movies. OK. OK. So it is a Jack Fisk movie. It's a Jack Fisk movie. Cool.

[02:00:58] OK. So it's famously, you know, worked with. Yes, this is basic as in the film. Yeah. And there's a lot of people. There's a lot of people like. Right. Brian De Palma. OK. OK. So Jack Fisk. Later in life. Sissy Spacek. You don't know it.

[02:01:13] The other the male lead is also an Academy Award winner recently. Like recently in 1986. Let's see when. Yes. Oh, you know what? He hasn't won his Oscar yet. He wins an Oscar in 1988. Is it Hoffman? No. Is it Hackman? No. No, no. He already won for French Connection. 88.

[02:01:35] Who wins in 88? I'll tell you this. He won for best supporting actor in a comic film. Oh, it's a Klein movie. Kevin Klein. It's Sissy Spacek. It's Klein and Spacek in a Fisk picture? A Fisk-ture? About two people. Oh no, I'm sorry.

[02:01:50] About a famous photographer played by Sissy Spacek who has been traveling around the world in a sailboat, I think. And then she comes home to Maryland. Brendan. Hello. The Maryland coast and meets her high school sweetheart, Kevin Klein, who's married. But romance ensues.

[02:02:14] So it's clear that none of us know what this movie is. Looks like Bonnie Bedelia plays the third wheel. That's why I'm just telling you. Of course. Bonnie Bedelia. Yeah. Bonnie Bedelia. The movie is called Violets Are Blue. Yeah. I absolutely never heard of this.

[02:02:29] Never heard of it. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it went over very well. It doesn't look like it got any Oscar nominations or any nominations at all. I'm a Kleine and I never heard of this film. You call yourself.

[02:02:41] Brendan refers to himself as a mountain climber because he's- Oopsie daisy! Some other films in the top 10. You've got Gung Ho, the very popular Michael Keaton, Ron Howard comedy that is now unwatchable. Aged perfectly like a fine wine. Tastes even better.

[02:03:00] You go put it back in there for another 10 years. Japanese people are so random. Which is one of two Lowell Ganz and Babaloo Mandel scripts in the top 10 because they also wrote The Money Pit. You've got Critters, a new line classic, right? A fun little horror movie.

[02:03:21] You've got Wise Guys. That's a De Palma movie, right? Yes, with Piscopo. I've never seen it. That is one of the few De Palmas I've never seen. Yes, Joe Piscopo and Danny DeVito. I mean, sounds fun. They're wise guys. You know Dennis Farina's in that too. Just somewhere.

[02:03:37] Kytel's in it. Kytel is in it. Come on, give me Farina. Dan Hedaya is in it. The wildest one is that Captain Lou Albano is in it. Oh, nice! Frank Vincent, Ray Sharkey. Patti LuPone. I'm not seeing any Farina. We could dig deeper. Sad.

[02:03:54] It's also written by George Gallo of fucking Midnight Run. Yes. Wise Guys, so that's in the top. Pretty in Pink, the John Hughes film, The Color Purple, Steven Spielberg's, you know, we got some Oscar leftovers here. Color Purple, Hannah and Her Sisters.

[02:04:12] The only other thing I want to point out is this was also the first week in America for Three Men and a Cradle, aka Trois Hommes et une Coffin. Which of course is the French movie that was remade as Three Men and a Baby. The next year maybe?

[02:04:29] Yeah. Directed by Leonard Nimoy. It is directed by Leonard Nimoy. I just, I'm digging into the Wise Guys cast just to definitively prove that Farina isn't in it, although it does feel like a movie Farina would be in. Both of Scorsese's parents are in it. That's fun.

[02:04:49] That's, that's, you know, the right, those, those guys having fun. Charles and Catherine Scorsese are in it as birthday guests. We love it. I should see Wise Guys. That's truly like the only De Palma I've never seen. Well, you know what?

[02:05:02] I haven't seen the the last one he did, the one with Nikolai Kostorwaldo or Domino. I never saw that. I should see that. Oh, geez. Yeah. You know, the thing you've just came out that he, the minute it was released, he was like,

[02:05:13] I just saw this film, which is just his vibe these days. You haven't played Domino yet. I haven't played Domino yet, but yeah, so that's, I think a very fun box office game. A lot of weird stuff. A police academy, a Tom Cruise movie.

[02:05:27] You know, it's got, it's got it all. It's got it all. Uh, Heinze. Sir. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. It was a goddamn delight. Is there anything specific you want to plug? I know you've been doing more music recently.

[02:05:43] You're unlocking key, but you also have music stuff coming up, right? I'm just playing shows around town and writing new songs. So you know, nothing to plug yet really. New record soon probably. I don't know.

[02:05:57] Oh, but let's see if Brendan Heinze is coming to a town near you. He's probably not. How do you feel about Christmas music, Brendan? Oh, that's a big question. Okay. Christmas music I'm fine with provided it was recorded prior to, I don't know, I'm just

[02:06:16] arbitrarily pick a date. Let's say prior to 1965. Well here's a, here's a question for you, Brendan. Do you have any feelings on the speed of Christmas music? The speed, uh, the tempo? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Uh, I like a waltz. I like a Christmas waltz.

[02:06:34] Okay, we're getting in the right territory. I got this whole little thing going and putting out a slow Christmas album every year. It's exactly what it sounds like. It's Christmas music, but slow. I love it. Like, like slow, like sexy? No, no, no. Slow. Like really slow.

[02:06:54] Throttle down, baby. Right. Year one was just taking Christmas tracks and like chopping and screwing them. Year two was hiring people to record new tracks at an incredibly drawn out pace. I love this. Okay. All right. We'll talk more offline. Yeah. Okay. Uh, you're the best, Brendan.

[02:07:16] Thank you guys. You're a river to your people. I appreciate you letting me be on this. God, I've been waiting for someone to say that to me. You're the coolest and uh, and this was a blast and thank you for helping me understand

[02:07:28] the movie Crime Wave, to be honest. I thank you for helping me understand. I've never been able to talk about it out loud before, to be honest. I never had anyone to talk about this movie with and that's, that's true.

[02:07:39] I do just want to restate, you are an incredibly cool person and I feel like whenever we hang out, you're trying to convince me how much of a dork you are, which you simultaneously are. Both things are true. Uh huh. But it's a surprising fact. I'm not cool.

[02:07:53] I'm not cool. You are though, despite how hard you try to not be cool. Okay. You are very cool. Not cool. Okay. Uh, thank you all for listening. Please remember. I'm pretty cool too. You're very cool. Yeah. Yeah. You're very cool Ben. Yeah. Take us out.

[02:08:10] Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. David texted this morning about the fact that subscribe is permanently banned from Apple Podcasts and they wanted to say follow, but I'm going to keep on saying subscribe.

[02:08:19] Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media, helping make the show. JJ Birch, Nick Loreano for our research, Alex Barron and AJ McKeon for editing, uh, Lee Montgomery, the great American novel for a theme song. Uh, Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork.

[02:08:34] Go to blank check pod.com for all the stuff. That's where all the stuff is now. I don't have to plug it separately. You don't have to tune in next week for evil dead to dead by dawn with special guest John Hodgman.

[02:08:49] We can say who the guest is because we banked that episode up. We got it in the can back to back pick episodes and you can go to Patreon. dot com slash blank check for blank check special features where we're returning to the matrix and doing matrix commentaries.

[02:09:07] And as always, I spent the last like 10 minutes Googling to see if I could find a picture of this money hit card so I could read it without going to my bathroom. But you just have to take my word for it. It's so fucking fun. It's fucked up.

[02:09:30] What's fucked up? I didn't do that. You fucking failed me. You guys like I don't know. Ska bands, Ben, you're, you're, you're barking up the wrong tree. Well, isn't that convenient for you, David?