Dead Poets Society with Nia DaCosta

[00:00:21] We don't listen to and record podcasts because it's cute. We listen to and record podcasts because we are members of the human race, and the human race is filled with passion in medicine, law, business, engineering. These are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But podcast, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for.

[00:00:41] Huh, huh, huh, huh. I did that as vocal warm-ups. Now, look, there are- He's not really doing huh. You know, he's not really doing that. No, but you still need to do it to get into the quiet. Huh, huh, huh. But then when he does like the Brando impression, you're like, right, he needed just five minutes to just be a silly guy. Let's just get straight into this, okay? Okay. It is kind of astonishing. I know this has been much discussed. Okay. But it's the first time we've tackled any of the movies in this set, okay?

[00:01:09] That Robin Williams has four Oscar nominations. He wins his fourth, right? He wins the fourth time, yeah. So I was saying his fourth Oscar, okay. He won his fourth nomination for Supporting Actor. He had three Best Actor nominations. By the time he gets Good Will Hunting, it's like, is he overdue, right? The three movies all where they didn't give him the award feel like, hey, wow, incredible.

[00:01:35] You have found a movie where you can use Robin Williams as your dramatic actor and yet still let him do his thing. So the first nomination, of course, was for Good Will. Sorry. Good Morning Vietnam, which is, he's at his most Robin Williams-y when he's on the microphone and all that, right? Right. So Good Morning Vietnam. Loses to Michael Douglas for Wall Street. Okay. Kind of a freight train. Yeah, I think so. This year he loses to? Daniel Day-Lewis for My Left Foot. It's quite a good performance.

[00:02:04] And it's another freight train. He was never going to win because Tom Cruise was supposed to win. Right. And Day-Lewis for Born on the Fourth of July. And Daniel Day-Lewis kind of comes on late. Fisher King. Fisher King is his third nomination. Loses to, huh, Anthony Hopkins' Silence of the Lambs. Is that a good performance? I would argue get it. Is that one lodged in the culture? Yet another freight train. There was this feeling perhaps of like, oh, he keeps being up against Titans. Obviously Robin Williams is beloved and he's just over time becoming only a bigger and bigger star.

[00:02:30] But I also think there was this feeling of, are we going to give him the Oscar when he's still kind of doing the Robin thing? Right? Like people were applauding the fact of like, oh my God, he can like carry a drama and he can like carry these emotions and whatever. And yet all these movies, Good Morning Vietnam and Dead Poets Society are kind of ingeniously constructed to tap into the emotional sensitive side of Robin Williams and surprise you. And yet allow him to do fucking riffs.

[00:02:56] Like within the structure of him being an unconventional teacher and a radio host, he can just do 90 seconds of impressions in the middle of the movie. Then Fisher King is like, what if he doesn't do the riffs? Right. He's sad. It's a dramatic version of the manic comedy energy. Sure. Whereas Good Morning Vietnam and Dead Poets Society are like dramatic tenor Robin Williams who occasionally does comedy riffs.

[00:03:20] So is Good Will Hunting basically Gus Van Sant being just be sensitive and make us cry? Listen. Yeah. Yeah. And it felt like they were like, there we go. We just need to see that you could drop all of it. Yeah. I do think he was also overdue. He was. And obviously that's a role where it's just, you know, monologues and speechifying and like, you know, making us cry and all that. Who'd he beat out there? He beat up Burt Reynolds.

[00:03:47] It was seen as maybe the odds-on favorite to win. For Boogie Nights, who's great. But perfect comeback. Yeah, no, we can't be doing all of that. Right. That's crazy. It's one of, it's a thing we're fascinated with. It's another example of someone like sweeps all the precursors and then you get to the Oscars and they lose. And it's like because too many people in this academy have worked with that person. Or their speeches. I love when you watch like an Oscar race or tour or whatever and all the speeches before are so insufferable that by the time they get to the Oscars, it's just like, no, we're not doing it.

[00:04:17] There's absolutely that part of it. Yeah. But I think I always cite Eddie Murphy and Sylvester Stallone. Eddie Murphy would have been Dreamgirls. Key examples of like, they're winning everything until the big show. And the big show is a lot of people who are like, I fucking work with him. And also them being like, we'll let you know how you're all wrong. Right. Yeah. Right. This movie has a lot of quotable dialogue. Sure. What's that face? What's that fucking look?

[00:04:46] I don't like the screenplay for this movie at all. I think it's... At all? I'm not a fan. Sorry. That's interesting. I remembered in an episode... I think this is kind of like the, not a very good movie that is just so handsomely made and well acted that it kind of puts a spell on you a little bit. I don't like this movie that much fundamentally. Sorry, guys. This is very upsetting. I'm sorry. This is such a bomb drop at the beginning. David kind of coming in with like a Nia Dacosta and the Fog take here. I know. I know.

[00:05:15] I was literally just thinking about that. I cannot tell a lie. Nia, congratulations. Heats off you. David's fucking taken the Slings of Heroes. I cannot tell a lie. I was really... You know, I'm still aware of how depressing that episode was for everyone. So thank you so much, David, for taking the mantle. Of course. Happy to... Would you like to give a speech of any kind? Yeah. Am I the bad guy? Am I just giving voice to some people who agree with me? I don't know. I don't...

[00:05:41] I can see where like in the structure of the screenplay, for example, it's a bit loosey-goosey. You're like, we're over here. We're over there. I had questions actually about the ending spoiler alert. Like how earned... I would agree. ...what Dr. Wilson... Where his story ends up. Yes. Dr. Wilson of Robert John Leonard. He will forever be Dr. Wilson. Unfortunately. Um... And... But I think you're absolutely right in that it's so handsomely made. Like I was thinking so much about this, like how beautifully shot it was.

[00:06:11] How wonderfully acted it was. Because those scenes, like those... Like two or three scenes leading up to that, um... To him taking his own life, um... Are so upsetting. Like... And so beautifully acted. Like his conversation with his father, his conversation... Like the Kerwood Smith on fire. Whoa! Red! In full foot in your ass mode. That's true. It is so funny that like to our generation... He wants to put his foot in your ass. You watch that 70s show and then you go back and you see like fucking RoboCop and Dead Poets

[00:06:41] Society. The scarier Kurtwood Smith. And you're like, oh it's weird to see like scary Red Foreman. Also it's great casting then. You're like, oh that makes no sense that you would cast. Yeah. Because to everyone like 10 plus years older than us, they're like, how funny is it that that guy ended up being a sitcom dad. Making fun of how intense he is. No, it's... Have you seen the reboot? No, no. But it's all him, right? It's him with like the grandkids. It's him and the grandkids, yeah. I mean, you know, it's... It's always that weird uncanny valley of like a modern three camera.

[00:07:12] Like multi-camera. Yes. Um, but he's just... I just love him so much. He rules. Yeah, it's great. Sorry, you were about to say handsomely made, earned... What? ...those scenes. I feel like... Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Nia's. Well, Nia was possibly like inching towards the vaguest agreement with sort of my sentiment. What I'm not gonna do is go back to the fog. Absolutely. So, um, I love this movie. It made me cry. Yeah. I took lots of notes and realized so much of my life is sort of... I went to New England boarding school for five years. So, I was like, I know these people.

[00:07:42] Right, right, right. You had this sort of experience. I mean, not in the 50s, obviously. Yeah, not in the 50s. Your Wikipedia, famously the most reliable resource. Yeah. Says that you originally intended to be a poet? Oh my gosh. Is that based on any truth? Yeah, when I was six. Okay. Her original aspiration was to be a poet. No citation. No citation. And when you were 16, apparently... This must be from an interview you gained for something. You took an AP English class and you read Heart of Darkness. Mm-hmm. That's accurate.

[00:08:11] And that led you to Apocalypse Now and that led you to cinema? Well, what led me to cinema was my parents' divorce and becoming a latchkey kid. Sure. All of this is good. All of this is good. And watching HBO for hours during the summer. And being like, I don't know what's going on in Full Metal Jacket, but I want to keep watching it. We sent you... Let me... First off, let me just say, just to be very clear, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[00:08:41] I'm David. A little slow. A little slow. I was looking at this Wikipedia page. Uh-oh. Sorry. It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby? My captain? Mm-hmm. To the earlier point, I was setting up the other crazy thing about those four Robin Williams movies. I cite as all four of them were huge motherfucking hits.

[00:09:07] That this guy was such a star at an era where the fucking Hollywood system still worked, where his clout as a comedian could make a drama a blockbuster. This movie made $240 million worldwide in 1989. This was a huge hit. Fisher King, I would say, is the one of the four... Fisher King was a hit. It did okay. It was not a hit on the same level. What's its worldwide? 40. Like, Fisher King was just kind of like a made-its-budget-back movie.

[00:09:36] Fisher King's worldwide was 40? That's great for Terry Gilliam. We're upset with the domestic. The other three were huge. I think it's... No, okay, let's see. Yeah, see, this is what I'm saying. No, it's domestic was 40. There we go. And it's worldwide was 70. Totally fine. Totally fine. But like... The other three were genuine... Good Morning Vietnam, this... 100 million dollars. There was the other... Obviously, Good Will Hunting was a big hit. I mean, you know what else was a big hit? Aladdin. Frickin' Aladdin and, you know... Mrs. Doubtfire.

[00:10:05] I'm just saying, this guy... What was the Birdcage? Birdcage was a huge hit. Was it a hit? A huge hit. Birdcage made a ton of money. We're gonna talk about this. His 90s were incredible until it fell off a cliff. Basically, right after he wins the Oscar. Oscar Chris. Well, he started... I mean, God bless him. He started making really bad movies. Like, I mean, he... I don't know... What was the first bad one? I mean, I think Griffin's right that it's sort of like... Right after the Oscar. After the Oscar, he starts to pick out these projects that are so treacly. Jacob the Liar. What Dreams May Come.

[00:10:34] Um, Patch Adams, Jacob the Liar, Bicentennial Man. Right. So it's like these movies that are all, like, big expensive movies that he will be the star of. Patch Adams is a giant hit. The other three are flops. It is. Patch Adams is also immediately reviled. Like, it being a hit made people hate it more. I feel like actors do this a lot, though, where they are like, now I'm a lead. And it's like, well, sometimes that supporting part is the best part of the movie. Poet Society is a great example. He's on screen for 30 minutes. Stop. Right. He's got a Best Actor nomination.

[00:11:05] He's above the title. He's Robin Williams. And he's sort of the lead, although you're right. It's an ensemble, I guess. There's no real... Yeah, because not even Robert Sean Leonard or Ethan Hawke are really... Like, it's like, there's not even a lead kid. I'd say Robert Sean Leonard. Sort of. But I looked up, there's the one account that does the fucking stop watching. Yeah. And it's 33 minutes out of two hours and eight minutes. Let me just finish the intro, because we're obviously getting deep into the weeds here. It's the main series on the films of Peter Weir. It's called Pod Naked Hanging Cast. Today, we're talking about Dead Poet Society.

[00:11:34] We are the Dead Podcaster Society. Sure. Pod K, cast them. Okay. Producer Ben has shown up. Producer Ben is, yeah, he's outfitted. He's fitting the dress code for the first time. We've always recommended a dress code here on Blank Check that we fail to abide by. But Ben has shown up in his finest boarding school wears. Yeah. Wearing a striped tie. I have a nice brown sports jacket on. Some loafers. Yes. I guess the only thing I'm wearing, denim.

[00:12:03] That wouldn't be allowed at a prep school. You have your glasses on. You got to wear, well, my first boarding school, every other Saturday we had a class for a half day, which obviously is terrorism. That's so rude. Yeah, that's actually the worst thing I've ever heard in my life. I know. It's terrible. And then, but we got to wear jeans. Wear casual dress. Oh, yes. Yes. You got to, right. Sure, sure, sure. I had to wear a uniform, which is so common in Britain, private school, public school. Like, it's like, I think it's still kind of the norm for so many schools.

[00:12:33] I've, so I'd say Ann's, was it recommended that you should really like just wear like whatever household objects? I have shared this before, but in my freshman year at St. Ann's, the horrible school I went to. Where's St. Ann's? At Brooklyn Heights. Prep school? No, it's like a fancy school. That's the fanciest fucking shit. Oh, sorry, energy? Yeah, kind of. I mean, like it was once back in the, it was founded as, we're going to be alternative.

[00:13:01] It was founded as what if you build a whole school out of John Keatings? Right. But also maybe half of those John Keatings were sexual predators. Well, that's what we all find out later. Yeah. But now it's just very fancy. There's lots of rich people in Brooklyn who want to send their kids to fancy private schools. I, as some weird meta-conceptual bit, being the most annoying, precocious child at the worst school, in freshman year, wore my own version of a school uniform for months. Sounds cool.

[00:13:30] That was my big act of rebellion of like, you're all so fucking rebellious. I'm going to dress like I'm part of the book. You're sheep. There was. I'm Griffin. So I did kind of dress the way Ben's dressed today. Ben doesn't look impressed. No. Our guest today returning to the show for the fourth time. Fourth appearance? Yes. Nia DaCosta. Hello. We are recording this very far in advance because you're a very, very busy woman. Well, you're around and you got a couple movies in the can.

[00:13:56] We've recorded with directors who were like, oh, and by the time this episode comes out, your movie will have come out. You were the first person where we're recording at a point where by the time the episode comes out, two films will have come out. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. When does Hedda come out? Director of Hedda and 28 Days Later, Colin, The Bone Temple. Yeah. I like to go 28 years later. Excuse me. Part two, The Bone Temple. And then ask everyone, where does the colon go? These are the questions.

[00:14:24] I noticed the new trailer that just came out at the time of recording this didn't have the part two. It doesn't. I just like to add it. Okay. Yeah. We went to see the film. Hedda. I'm sorry. Well, we saw Hedda, but also when Ben and I saw it 28 years later. Right. At the end, the lights come up, right? After there's the big, the Jimmies. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. This crazy ending. Yes.

[00:14:52] And Ben turns to me and he goes, I like how random that ending was, but part of me just wishes I could watch an entire movie of that. And I said, Ben, do I have great news for you? It's already in the can. It's directed by our friend. And it's subtitled The Bone Temple. And it was like his eyes turned into like three sevens. My eyes started turning into like a slot machine. And it just landed on bones. Your tongue flopped out of your mouth. Yeah, exactly. Yes.

[00:15:17] I will say tonally, my film is quite different from the energy of that scene. But yeah, it is. The Jimmies are a focal point in the film. And they're just. Is the Bone Temple going to be okay? I understand you probably can't answer this question. Also, just to be clear, by the time this episode comes out, we will have recorded an episode on us having seen the film. I'm like, they're going to fuck up all this bone. Yeah, let's keep the bones in touch. He worked so hard on that. It is okay, man. Okay, great. Thank God. That's actually great news.

[00:15:47] I'm actually buoyed by that. That's great. Yeah. We saw Hedda, though. Oh, thank you for coming. Thank you so much. Which I love. Oh, thank God. Which sucks. No, no, no. It's actually awesome. Yes. Thank you. I really loved it. I did ask your dad. I said, did Griffin like it? You met my dad as well. Yeah, which was amazing. Yes. My dad also loved it. Let's talk about the Dead Poets Society. Come on, guys. Okay, so you go to boarding school. Yeah, I went to boarding school. Does this happen after your parents divorced? Where is this in the timeline? I want to put all this together. My parents got divorced when I was nine. Okay.

[00:16:17] Rude. And I was very disrespectful, but thank God they did. Okay, fair enough. Yes, you're right. It was the right thing. I went to boarding school for eighth through 12th grade. But I was in private school when I was younger, and then public school for a bit, right after my parents divorced. And my mother's huge on education, and she was like, we're not doing this anymore. She was like, you know, like in New York City, you have to go to the school where you're living. Yes. And so the first thing we tried was she gave her office address so I can go to a better school downtown. Okay.

[00:16:46] And like day one, they were like, can we have Nia D'Costa come to the principal's office, please? Fucking. They were like, get out. Oh, they rumbled you. Yeah, they did. But then I ended up going to Robert Wagner on the Upper East Side. Okay. And then when it came time to leave. Because you grew up in Harlem? Yeah, more or less. Yeah. I was born in Brooklyn, raised mostly in Harlem, had a stint in Korea. West. Okay. So I was like kind of like near 145th ABCD station. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[00:17:12] And we, my, I think seventh and sixth and seventh grade, my mom was like, you know, we can do better. And so we started looking at private schools. I almost went to Spence. Wow. Which would have been, I think I would have been a shell of a person. I don't, these, these, you know, upper crust, upper, upper crust places. I can't imagine what the kids are like. I mean, it freaks me out. No, I know some Spence girls and they're like, you escaped. Spence has some Dead Poets Society energy. I'm sure. I met a girl who went to one of those schools.

[00:17:42] I don't think it was, it might have been. Nightingale Bamford. Yeah. And like, I was like, oh, I grew up in New York. Like, you know, I said something about how I always loved taking the subway as a kid. Because I did. Uh-huh. This came up. Sure. And she was like, yeah, I never took the subway until I was a grownup. And I was, it was just, I was like, and you went to school. Like, yeah. Fucking, you know, across the park from where I grew up. And like, you'd never ever, like, it was like a whole other life. Sorry? How old were you for your first subway ride? A baby, I imagine. I don't know.

[00:18:12] Solo, solo. Oh, that's a good question. You know, I started, well, I had moved to London by then. Yeah. But I started taking myself to school when I was 10. Yeah. And my guess would be that would be like when I was first. Yeah, mine was nine. Yeah. See, my thing was, right, 9-11 happens when I'm 12. I feel like I had just started to get independent subway rights. And then I got knocked back. Then there was, there was a year of my parents being like, the subway is going to be blown up. You cannot get on it.

[00:18:42] Yeah. My, my parents are weirdly fucking not subway riders. What neighborhood did you grow up in? I grew up in the West Village, but it's, they're just crazy people. My dad would fucking like, would lease a car and drive it everywhere and just be upset all the time. That's what I'm talking about. But, um, anyway. I lived in New York for decades. So I, I had to like come by my love of a subway. Yeah. On your own time. Not that they didn't take me on it, but it was not there. Yeah. Ben, you want to wait? Yeah. I just wanted to share. I actually went to an unprepped school. Oh. Where are you from, Ben?

[00:19:12] You were unprepped? Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Continue. Yeah. Yeah. They wanted you not prepared for anything. So it was, it was an unprepared Tori school that I left and I didn't know what the fuck I was going to do. It is so rude that prep schools, I didn't, you know, like I never went to a prep school, but like, they're like, we're prep school. We're prepping. Are schools not generally supposed to prepare? It's the Fairsly difference. Why do you get to be the prep school? We always have apples. I never thought about that. Anyway.

[00:19:42] I assume it's probably rooted in some, you know, awful thing of Victorian. Absolutely. Probably. Something dark. But were you in like, like what part, what kind of Jersey were you in? So just an hour outside of the city. My city. This city. Yeah. In my city. Sorry. I was just like, I just started thinking about Jersey cities. So extremely suburban. Yeah. Like kind of near Patterson, that area. Okay. Okay. It was a small area, only a couple bone temples. Not like a major hub. What boarding school did you end up going to?

[00:20:12] I went to the Rumsey Hall School in Connecticut. Okay. And then I went to the master school in Westchester. That's an intense name for a school. The master school? Yeah. Yeah. It used to be all girls. Elizabeth Masters was the founder of the school. There we go. It wasn't like we're going to be masters of the universe. Or it wasn't like big Paul Thomas Anderson fans where they were just. No. No. Thank God. Founded in 2013. No sad hand jobs. Actually, probably. We're high school students after all. I'm sure a sad hand job or two. You cannot. Hand jobs. I'm so sorry. You're not promised. I know. That's absolutely. In the math resource center.

[00:20:42] No, because we, knowing you had like a back-to-back press tours coming up and you were going to be in town now. We gave you like the schedule for the whole first six months of 26. And you threw out a couple, but we were immediately like, Dead Poets is interesting not knowing the level of connections. Well, that was what was so crazy because I literally, and I guess we can talk about the movie now, but I literally, when I got to the Yelp scene, I was like, oh my God, Mr. Ketchum made us go outside and Yelp.

[00:21:11] I was like, and I'm like, he was so. What is this word you are using? Yelp. Right. The thing he makes Ethan Hawke. Yeah. Right. The primal. A primal Yelp. But Mr. Ketchum was your Mr. Keaton. Absolutely. Ash Ketchum. Yeah. And I was, Ash Ketchum. He taught you how to rear Pokemon. He taught me how to rear Pokemon. He taught me how to rear Pokemon. And the Nia and the Griffin in this episode. But he was, he was amazing. And my, when I started, I think we were in, it was an eighth grade, in the equivalent

[00:21:40] of whatever aping should be for an eighth grader. But we were reading like Faulkner and Walt Whitman and E.E. Cummings and William Carlos Williams. And now that I look back at it, I'm like, oh, of course we're Yopping. And like Arbor Bark, Yopping, you know, whatever. It's like, so I was like, oh, he's clearly watched this movie and he's obsessed. When did you see it? The first time? Yeah. Well, it was on TV a lot, wasn't it? Yeah. I saw it on TV in high school. Absolutely. I never, I had the same experience of Sound of Music where it's so long because of the

[00:22:09] commercials that you never get to the Nazis. I never got to the suicide. And so I rewatched it a couple of years ago and I, and I was like, no, what's happening? It's fair. It was so crazy. Yeah. Because I feel like, right, everyone's like, yeah, but he gets fired and they all get on their desks, right? Yeah. I mean, that's sort of what everyone references with Poets Society. Yeah. I saw this film when I was like 12 or 13 years old.

[00:22:36] I rented it with my friend Saba and she loved Ethan Hawke. And she was like going through Ethan Hawke phase. Okay. And she was like, I want to rent this movie from like, it was back in the day when you still would be like, we're going to go to the video store and rent a movie. And I was like, oh yeah, I've never seen that movie. I know that. That's like a good movie. Right. And I watched it with her and I thought it was okay. And we both cried and I never saw it again. And then I watched it today or not, you know, the other couple of days ago.

[00:23:04] And I was kind of impressed by how, obviously it's a culturally significant, like it's in the air. Yeah. But I was like, damn, I remember like almost all of this. I haven't seen it in like 25 years. Yes. And it made me cry when they said, oh, captain, my captain. And I was kind of like, this is bullshit. Cause like, I don't even like this movie that much. Easy cry. But I'm like, I know they're going to do it. Like it's like, I'm not exactly like getting caught off guard by.

[00:23:34] Oh, captain, my captain. It's like kind of a magic trick movie in that sense where you're just like, you, you can't not get caught by that. It did work me up. I cried a couple of times watching it. And I have kids now and there's things that this, there are buttons this movie. You yell at your children every day that they got to be doctors. Yelling at twin babies. It's just such a weird complex where he's like, you can't be an amateur actor in any sense. Also, just like, I'm sorry. If your son is Robert Sean Leonard, you're not changing that path.

[00:24:02] He has the most fucking theater actor-y face. So true. No one has ever looked more like an actor and had the demeanor of an actor. Doesn't the acting thing come so late in the game? Pretty late. Dude, cause I was like, did I miss him mentioning liking acting before he was like, it's my passion in life. No, it like finds him like halfway through. Right. And then he's immediately in the play. Yeah. He's sort of like, it feels like he auditions without having told you or anyone that it's a thing he's ever had a desire for.

[00:24:30] And he immediately is like, which, you know, there are certain, there is a type of actor who is like that. Who's just like, yeah, my friend asked me to like be in their short film. Now I'm actually thinking I might like start auditioning and stuff. Maybe I want to do this. Um, I, I saw it in high school. Yeah. Uh, similar to you, like high school was just like cable movie channels all the time. I'm like checklist obsessive. I need to watch all the movies and anything like this that was referenced so much that I knew had Oscar nominations.

[00:25:00] It's like, that's stuff you have to cross off the list. Right. Hadn't seen it since then. David, I feel like at some point the last year or two of the podcast, it maybe came up in a box office game. It certainly did because the box office game we'll be playing is, uh, is, is a movie we covered before I think. And you said like, does that poet society suck? And I was a little surprised by that take knowing that you love Peter Weir and this is the big mini series. And honestly, I love Robin Williams. You've been beating the drum for for so long.

[00:25:29] And I love private preparatory education single set. That's how I think it should be done. Always. Not having seen this movie in 20 years, I was like, huh, that, the take kind of sounds right. I could buy it. Sure. If I watch that now, am I going to roll my eyes at all of this? Right. And then I watched it last night and I was like, I think this thing totally works. Yeah. I do not think it is one of Weir's best films. And I agree with you that it's like what works is, I think, the decision and the control and the taste that he applies to it.

[00:25:59] But I also like, I think this script works. I think it is like. No, I agree with that, that it works. It's a well. Yes. Yes. It's a it's a it's a machine like that. It does what it's supposed to do. I was very ready for in my mind's eye not having seen since I was a teenager being like, I'm going to be more cynical about this now. I'm going to have my bullshit meter up really high for like manipulation, you know? And I think the script is like pretty controlled. Now, we'll talk about it.

[00:26:30] The guy had one of the most insane post Oscar careers that we've discussed before. Peter Ware. No, not Peter Ware. The screenwriter who wins the Oscar for this. Tom Schulman. Yes. This was wasn't this his first. Yes. You know, exactly. And he goes on. It's a semi-autobiographical script that he. It's about a teacher who inspired him. Yada, yada, yada. Right. He gets put on Honey, I Shrunk the Kids. His job is to make it a comedy. Is that right? Yes. It was like a late rewrite thing. From the Stuart Gordon version, which I think was more sci-fi, which of course he wanted

[00:26:59] to call teeny weenies. And then it's like a bunch of big scripts. Well, two. What about Bob? Yeah. Which is, you know, a great movie. It's a fun movie. It's kind of a hit. And Medicine Man, George Miller's Medicine Man. Sorry, John McTiernan's Medicine Man. Right. That's why we talked about it. Horrendous. A horrendous movie. I'm like, who the fuck wrote this movie? Should I watch it? Yeah, go ahead. You know what? I kind of should watch it. I should watch all John McTiernan's, yeah. You should. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:26] Then he wrote and directed the film Eight Heads in a Duffel Bag. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. A Joe Pesci comedy. Have you ever seen it? No. It's pretty fun. I should watch all the Joe Pesci's. There's like eight heads in a duffel bag. Tell me more. And so basically. It gets lost or something? I watched it. It gets lost. Joe Pesci plays a hit man. You know, I'll hold my questions until after I observe the film. His last. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, you should hold your question. His last. Oh, no, no. Jesus.

[00:27:55] Then it's Holy Man, the Eddie Murphy film. Which I watched for the first time recently. And it's one of the most insane films I have ever watched. Wait, is that the. No, I'm thinking of Golden Child. Never mind. Golden Man is like almost impossible to describe. But it like feels like trying to make a dead poet society for Eddie Murphy. It is weirdly like more of a drama. And also much like dead poet society. Eddie Murphy is maybe only in 30 minutes of the movie. And Jeff Goldblum's actually the lead. Right.

[00:28:24] But the premise is that Eddie Murphy is like a weird spiritual guru they find on the side of the road who may be magical or is like a lunatic. Someone with like mental illness and amnesia. I think I've seen this. And Jeff Goldblum is an exec who works for a cable shopping channel. Who like makes him. And he puts him on the air and it almost becomes like a network thing where he like goes on these long rants, like anti-consumerist rants. But it makes the sales go up. So he's commodifying this. It's insane. Insane. Is that.

[00:28:53] Do you think that was an inspiration for One Million Merits? Absolutely. Good. I love One Million Merits. Oh, well. Welcome to Mooseport is his final base. Which I mooseported recently and is not a very good movie. Which is Gene Hackman's final film. That guy just starts his career with like a fucking seismic. He wins the Oscar for an original screenplay. And then you're just like. That happens not infrequently. Absolutely. It's so interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:34] David. What's the matter? I'm going to share for you a horrifying tale. A tale of woe and suffering. Whoa, this is scary. It's a tale of human error. A failing on my part. Tell me. We went to the Wisconsin Film Festival. Sure. Visited our dear researcher, JJ Birch. I'm scared already. Participated in a screening. We dined out. We had fried cheese curds. We drank Wisconsin beer. What was the mistake? Tell me. I forgot to pack my. Oh, Jesus. AG1. You didn't bring your AG1 to Wisconsin?

[00:30:04] This is a fuck. This is an ad read. This is a personal endorsement from experience. They got the travel packs because the thing I love about AG1, they give you different form factors. They give you different ways to handle it. I forgot to pack any AG1. I was there for 72 hours. It took a week to undo. A week to undo. I'm not going to get graphic about this, but it just goes to show, as I always say in these ad reads, AG1 has really become load-bearing within my life.

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[00:32:01] With your first AG1 subscription order. That's a $72 value. Yours free. Only while supplies last. Go to drink AG1.com slash check. Do you want me to open the dossier? Why not? Okay. Yes. Okay. So Tom Schulman was disheartened, I guess the early arc of his career, trying to be a Hollywood screenwriter.

[00:32:31] He was writing stuff, probably trying to get stuff sold, right? You know, he was just writing genre stuff and comedies and whatever. And he writes dead poets, not thinking of it as a commercial script, but more, you know, Colin Card writing sample. Paying homage to this teacher he had. He said, a very volcanic teacher who talked about theater and acting and movies. And we all go out to drinks. And, you know, he imbued me and my, not him and the teacher,

[00:33:00] I think him and the other students, but they were all like, you know, fired up by this teacher. That's like a classic story of like, someone's trying to break through in Hollywood. No one will open the door for them. And then, you know, someone gives him the advice of just like, write the movie that only you can write. What's the personal story that only you have? That's the thing. Right. So he's got all this nostalgia. He went to Montgomery Bell Academy in Nashville, Tennessee. Okay. And he also, I guess,

[00:33:29] had a stern dad who didn't want him to, you know, be a Hollywood screenwriter or whatever. Didn't want him to be in Hollywood. Right. No son of mine will ever put heads in a duffel bag. The real teacher's name is Samuel F. Pickering Jr. And much like the character in Dead Poets Society, he was an alum who had returned as a teacher. And much like Dead Poets Society, he left pretty quickly. I'm not sure if he got fired or anything, but like he moved on and then he ends up at the University of Connecticut. He becomes a bit of a minor celebrity after this movie comes out,

[00:33:59] obviously, because he's the real Dead Poets Society guy. Shulman decides to set the film in the 50s, even though he, this I think had more of this experience in the 60s. He'd been born in 1950. I do think this movie has no sense of when it's set. I agree. And it sort of gets away with it because boarding schools are weird and hermetic and trapped in time or whatever. But I think it was Hoberman's review. I was reading old reviews of it and Hoberman was like, this movie's set in the 50s?

[00:34:28] There's no sense of that. There's no music. There's no sense of what's going on in the world. I'm truly wondering if I clocked it until you're saying that right now. I would say, I think a third or two thirds into the film, someone mentions it's 1950 something. And I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Or maybe I wikied it actually. First, he writes it more about the teacher. He returns to the script. He revises it, makes it more about the students, you know, which there you go.

[00:34:57] And he thinks about Neil as the sort of student that goes too far. I guess is sort of whatever. I mean, Too far doing what? I don't know. Getting too into acting. I mean, this script is so... JJ? This interview is making me feel justified. No, no, no, carry on, carry on. No, but I mean, but I totally got that. But I think it's like, I was thinking about the holdovers when I was watching it. Yes. And I think that feeling of the script being a bit like,

[00:35:27] what's happening? Why does this matter? And like the fact that all the boys have these completely different sort of needs and things that they do because they're inspired. And one of them is kissing a girl while she's sleeping, which is very distressing. It is. It is the element of this movie. Josh Charles being a creep. It does make you kind of tip your head and go like, what's happening? That's inspirational. Yeah. It's like, I have to do it. I just, I'm so sorry. I had to. This is so distressing, but, but it is sort of, it just, but it feels very like,

[00:35:57] it's like vibes, you know? Yes. It's like we're in this, we're in this place, man. It certainly has like a very kind of comforting autumnal feeling. exactly. And also this sort of, I know this movie is 89, but it feels like it's starting to synthesize the look that I feel like becomes the dominant 90s prestige drama look. Yeah. Yes. This kind of golden color. Absolutely. I mean, and in this movie, again, it's got a great director. It's got an incredible John Seale,

[00:36:26] incredible DP, like, but anyway, he's taking the script around. Nothing's really happening. He's not getting any traction. And, and then at some point, Jeffrey Katzenberg at Disney calls and is basically like, I hear someone wants this script. I want it now, you know? And he was basically like, four million dollars, like, give it to me immediately. Like, Jesus. Yeah, right. You know, and it basically became a one person bidding war. I guess so. Yeah.

[00:36:55] The way he puts it is everyone else had passed on the script and not really read it. Jeffrey had actually read it and he had someone who's gone to private school. He, whatever, you know, resonated with him or whatever and he just got super excited. This is also fairly early Touchstone, which was such a big project for Eisner and Katzenberg and a lot of their thing in trying to find like, what are the grown-up movies that Disney makes through this offshoot was like, find good vehicles for depreciated stars.

[00:37:24] That was a lot of their strategy was like, being like, Richard Dreyfuss, Bette Midler, you know? Like, making Splash, you know? Like, what are the scripts that everyone else in town is passing on that we can make with someone who has name value but has a couple flops in a row? So you can get them for cheaper or it's like, they'll be more interested in doing something of it. Yeah, yeah. But you could see this script being a good vehicle for that kind of thing of like, you got this big, showy teacher role that you could get a former A-lister to do

[00:37:54] without having to work that many gigs. Was Robin in that space in his career though at the time? Well, so let's get to that. He was hotter. Yeah, he's, okay, but they bring aboard Jeff Canu, of course, the director of Revenge of the Nerds to direct this film. Katzenberg is so hot on this movie that they cannot find a star and Katzenberg's like, don't worry about it. We'll find the star. Start scouting locations. Get ready. And so they're all set to go and then Disney finally is like, kill this project. There's no star. Like,

[00:38:23] what are you fucking doing? Yeah. And they all get summoned to the office and Katzenberg is like, sort of monologuing about what a great job they did and Knew says, let's get on with it. I feel like I'm having my back rubbed until I die. And Katzenberg is like, okay, we're firing you. Sorry. Now, JJ, who is not fired because he did his job correctly on this one, had alerted us a couple weeks ago. There was a crazy sentence on the Wikipedia and I need to research it. And what David just read is the actual researched answer

[00:38:53] to what happened. The way the Wikipedia recounts it, which is insane, is that they hired Jeff Knew, then hired Robin Williams, but Robin Williams didn't want to do the movie with him. So he signed on then refused to show up to filming during the first day of shooting. So until they fired him and then they burned the sets down. That's what I read and I was like, that's what I thought you were going to say. No citation. I don't think that's what happened. No, it's not what happened. What you just read happened. Jeff Knew is fired.

[00:39:22] Williams had been considered but he'd never gotten attached. He's expensive. He's a big star. Like it was more like it was someone like the eight circles. I just don't even know how that Wikipedia story comes about. It's very dramatic. So then it gets shopped around at a certain point they are told that Knew can still direct it if they can get Alec Baldwin or Liam Neeson. Which is crazy. Neeson is crazy because he's not that famous. Has he done, did he do that Julie Foster movie yet? He must have. No. No,

[00:39:52] that's later. That's like early 90s. It's an odd choice. I mean, he would be good. He would boys. When did Taken come out? I'm kidding. Rip out those fucking pages. I miss, you know, actor Neeson. A very particular set of poems. And then occasionally you get it with silence or whatever. Have you seen Naked Gun? No, I need to. It rules. But the thing it gets so right is how funny it is to have him say anything with that level of intensity.

[00:40:21] And they use both like Taken intensity Neeson but also like Schindler's List intensity Neeson where it's like give him a fucking paragraph monologue of the dumbest shit in the world and just tell Neeson to play it. Like it's the most important thing ever. That's like Andre Brouwer in Broken 99. It's exactly like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All this doesn't work out. The rights revert back to Disney and about a year after Katzenberg is like Dustin Hoffman. How about that? I just saw him.

[00:40:51] You just saw Dustin Hoffman? Yeah. At Megalopolis? Was he going like this? I still haven't seen it. I bought it and I'm like I can't wait to watch and I just haven't brought myself to it. But yeah, I saw him. And I think Tessa had a moment where she's trying to like they're trying to hug each other and then they tried to she tried to like lift him. It was like very He's very small. He's very old and small. Yeah. But I was like Dustin. Anyway, continue. He wanted to direct it and star in it which sounds complicated. I agree.

[00:41:22] He's got a bit of a reputation even at this time for being kind of wishy-washy. You know, like he'll get involved in a project he'll get really nitpicky and perfectionist-y about it and then he'll drop out. Well, he actually only makes three movies in the 80s. Am I correct about that? I feel like the 80s for him are Ishtar, It starts to get out of control. And Rain Man. Really? He like slows way the fuck down partly because he like freaks out over the failure of Ishtar and partly because

[00:41:51] he becomes so controlling that he kind of boxes himself out. I think he is legendarily controlling at that point. I'm going to give you the full list of movies he made in the 80s. Sorry. Because like his 60s and 70s are obviously too much. It's Ishtar and Rain Man and Family Business in 1989 right at the end there. So it's four. Four. And then there is also the Death of a Salesman that he does first on stage and then TV which is very bad. Yes. And you know Hoffman is

[00:42:22] going crazy. Now a big thing in the original script is that Keating is dying of cancer. Insane. Yeah. Yeah. And Hoffman's like I'm going to lose all this weight to like portray the you know portray this. Thank God they cut that out of the movie. Or I mean whatever. Yes. That's like and I'm going to have that you also can't have a kid committing suicide. It's too much. Darkness. I assume that was a Peter Weir judgment call. I don't know. But anyway he's going crazy basically with his auteurdom but then he drops out

[00:42:51] and they go back to Robin Williams. Robin Williams has obviously made Good Morning Vietnam which was a hit but then since then he's had a couple flops. He hasn't really done anything. Well so Good Morning Vietnam is 86? 87. Yeah he hasn't really done anything. This is saying he has flops but he has nothing. It's just Maybe it's in his personal life. Is JJ fired? Damn. Well it's a quote from somebody but anyway. I feel like he has a run of flops

[00:43:21] leading into Good Morning Vietnam. Yeah exactly like Moscow and the Hudson Best of Times Club Paradise Seize the Day all these kind of nothing movies. Never heard of any of this one. It is crazy that he made a movie called Seize the Day. Yes. Based on the Saul Bellow book. Right. A pretty limp film and like his first attempt at doing this kind of drama. Peter Weir has Green Card which is a movie he wrote. Yes. He's been trying to make it. It just got delayed for a year for whatever reason. Katzenberg calls him up and is like hey what are you doing? And he's like

[00:43:50] I'm fucking waiting on this Green Card thing and I'm going to the supermarket. That's the quote Peter Weir gives. And was Green Card Miramax? I don't know. Okay I'm sorry. We'll talk about that. Miramax doesn't even exist then. What? It's 1989. Who releases Green Card? Green Card was of course released by Disney. Touchstone. There we go. And so Katzenberg's like well you want to make a movie? Like I got a movie. Yeah. And Katzenberg had worked with him on Witness and is like sends him the script. Peter Weir's like oh it's about a school I don't care about that but then he reads

[00:44:20] the script and he's like I like this. Yeah right. Right. Then he says this cancer reveal sucks. There we go. Get this out of the script. I mean emblematic of Peter Weir's value on this movie where you're like this is a film of tremendous judgment and good taste. Right? Right. Like his skill as a director in this film is largely invisible in terms of the craft. It's very unshowy. But like I think the things that like you're slightly allergic to in this movie I watch and

[00:44:49] I'm like I am so impressed he stays just on the right side of these things. Right. Because almost anyone else making this movie would probably make me vomit. And just knowing that it was supposed to have suicide and cancer is a perfect. Right. Yeah. Look Tom Shulman is like this is my script. This is the ending. You want me to take this out? Are you crazy? Peter Weir's just like look I you don't have to but I'm not going to make the movie. Like so it's like me or the you know this plot twist. It was set up as a place

[00:45:18] that you don't know he's been dying. I mean I don't know. It's the third act thing. And then Robin Williams comes aboard and Peter Weir says to him like by the way we're losing the cancer thing and Robin was like oh good. Like I don't like that. Oh. And so Peter Weir went to private school as well. The Scots College in Sydney. He said it was an ironbound school. I was a terrible student. I you know so I did relate to that. And I did have a poetry lecture on William Blake where the teacher like you know woke me up and like

[00:45:47] you know excited me about that. And so I kind of tried to put that into the movie. So you know he relates to it but it is a little bit of a higher job for Peter Weir. Yeah. Right. Like he is coming aboard pretty late. Ethan Hawke who he obviously works with on this movie gave his interview like a year or two ago where he basically announced Peter Weir's retirement and it got a lot of headlines. Is it? It's someone he was doing probably some film festival retrospective talk or whatever and they asked him about working with different directors.

[00:46:16] Where's Peter Weir? Why has he made stuff? And he's like he's basically retired. And then that headline carried over. Right. He's just like he just was kind of worn down by the industry. Yeah. But he had this line I think about a lot and that I probably will bring up many many times across the series where he's just like he was this really rare thing and that he was a popular artist. Yeah. And just the succinctness of defining him that way where you're like this was a guy who mostly worked within the studio system. Yeah. Yeah. With major A-list stars. Yeah. And made like intelligent

[00:46:45] mainstream movies. Yeah. He was like with actual art and craft making movies for grownups that were commercial plays. Yeah. Right. You know. Brian Coogler vibes like. But you know. Yeah. But like weirdly in a certain way he starts out making these personal films that are so much about like Australia and its legacy and whatever. And then he becomes this like very emotionally invested director for hire in a bizarre way. But I think I think you know we're so invested in like the

[00:47:15] auteur story. But like directing like I don't know it's like it's a job you know. And I think when people someone like him it's like he's just good at the job. That's the thing. And can be like there's just some oh my God. I'm blanking. Help. Send help. Like check. Mad Max. George Miller. Yes. George Miller. He said which I thought. Hello. He said you have to so much of directing is learning when to be passionate and dispassionate. Yeah.

[00:47:44] And I'm like that's so true. And I think that's how you if you're passionate all the time you will just lose it burn yourself into. Exactly. Yeah. And you'll be Dustin Hoffman and you're like why am I losing all this weight to this movie. Kugler's magic to me is that like he cannot make a film that isn't somehow him making the most personal statement he can at that time. And yet he is able to make it in a way that connects to everybody which is kind of like a Spielberg magic. Exactly. Right. He calls himself a populist filmmaker. Right. Kugler's very clear about that. That's just the language he works in. Yeah. Peter Weir like has this sort

[00:48:14] of like not bifurcation in his career but there's definitely the shift where so much of his value comes from a list fucking leading men love him respect him trust him. Yeah. And he becomes this director for hire in a certain way but none of them feel like dispassionate jobs you know but it's like this is an era where you still could have that level of clout because you're like hey Robin Williams wants to work with him. Yeah. Harrison Ford wants to work with him. Mel Gibson wants to work with him.

[00:48:44] Russell Crowe wants to work with him. Jim Carrey wants to work and these guys are fucking turnkeys and if this is the director they want they get to make whatever fucking movie they want. Yeah. And this isn't treated as well this is Robin's little weird indie project. No this is a big studio movie. Yeah. All right so when they're making it you guys might be shocked to learn. Robin Williams kind of like to sort of be a little goofy and funny when he was doing his teaching scenes and stuff kind of like you go into comedy mode. You do one take is written and then the second take well.

[00:49:14] So Peter Weir had to put the brakes on that. Sure. And said like look the guy's not an entertainer like that's not what this character is. Yes. Like he's not the funny teacher exactly. Like he's he makes jokes and he smiles you know and wanly and. Another example of good judgment I think Peter Weir used just enough of the Robin stuff. A thousand percent. It's like these sorts of like watching the movie and watching Robin like he has

[00:49:40] such deep like sadness in him. He does which is the magic of Robin. Exactly. And for him to use and his deep empathy and it's just like for him to use that to not be able to go to the comedy completely to to be the shield for all of that. Which he does it again with Jim Carrey and Truman Show. We'll talk about that a lot but there's so many interesting stories he tells about the process. I'm really good at and even witness is a version of this where like he's made such good movies.

[00:50:09] It's a Harrison Ford movie star movie where he's playing a cop and where he's like really drilling down into like yeah there's like a sadness in you that other people kind of like haven't been. Well it's also because Harrison Ford's making that movie like after three you know Star Wars and two Indiana Jones and like it's like yeah play a guy right you're gonna play a guy now. I think he's John book but this is like why these guys wanted to work with him is he was really good at like taking someone with a movie star persona and all that eat and being like who's the

[00:50:39] real guy at the center of this. And you can trust me with that guy. Right. I'm pulling something honest from deeper within you. So Robin Williams yes classically yes he would make you do one serious then one silly then one whatever. They did have a half day there. They just let him go nuts unscheduled kind of didn't tell Disney about it. That's where the Brando and John Wayne stuff comes from. Sure. Did Ethan Hawke recently say how much he just hated him because he was so not serious

[00:51:08] but Ethan Hawke is so overly serious so I could see that. Ethan Hawke I think also is very upfront about how fucking serious he was then. Yeah. Like maybe he's a little more retrospective now but like that he was so up his own ass as this young actor. That he didn't get it. That it was like why isn't this guy treating this like the most important thing that has ever happened. I think all these young actors like Josh Charles and him and you know like there he talks about it like they were in that pool of young actors in the early 90s along with like Damon and Brendan Frazier and all those guys who

[00:51:38] were like coming up for all these roles at the same time. There was a really intense crop of young white brunette. Wait what? But all of these guests. The school ties group and the dead poets group all these people who were were overlapping. It is funny Hawke's casting here and obviously he was kind of like the most experienced of all the actors because he had been. Yeah he's in that child star. kid movie. But the rest of them were pretty much first big. Yeah. Yeah. He's like playing the least

[00:52:07] hockey of the kids. Yeah that's so true. Like Hawk is the ultimate like man you gotta go out and learn and take your experiences. He's not the later. You're right. He's not Richard Linklater's Ethan Hawke or Reality Bites Ethan Hawke or whatever. I feel like Hawk's persona as a person now is like forever student right. That like every interview with him is just man I get so funny. You go to a museum and you see a painting and it makes you feel something. And so watch him in this being the young guy who you know

[00:52:36] was that serious and that artistically driven be like I don't know if we should be doing this. Can you stop talking around Mr. Williams please. Let's improve. He wouldn't say action. He would just throw a piece of balled up piece of paper at the head of the person who's supposed to speak first. I like that. Instead of yelling cut he would wrap his coffee cup with a teaspoon. I assume you do the Clint Eastwood thing of you say go ahead and that's enough of that right. Yes. And then I don't realize it's a rehearsal. Yes.

[00:53:05] I read the Clint biography that Sean Levy just wrote like not director Sean Levy the critic Sean Levy. Which is so good. And it does talk about how he would just start filming rehearsals like as a matter of fact. Yeah. Just be like what the fuck are you doing. It's authentic. I love shooting. I mean I always tell an actor when I'm rolling or if I'm like they're doing it do it. And then I'll go talk to them afterwards. But I remember do you remember when it felt like I feel like it was again when we were in our like early 20s when the

[00:53:34] industry was acting as the women had just started directing films. It was and television. Yeah. It was a technological. Yeah. It was insane what we did. And and then there were there's such a story around like women not saying action because action so male and not saying cut because it was so aggressive. Violent. Yeah. And I was just like can everyone fucking relax. My my 80 says action and my 80 says cut. OK. But to be fair I I'm I am. You're in like an egg and you're no one is allowed to look at you.

[00:54:04] I don't go to set. I direct from my helicopter. Right. Exactly. And we ADR all the lines. Yeah. Exactly. And your helicopter is 20 feet above the ground. 20 feet above. Exactly. Really close. It's very windy windy. Sound department hates. Hate me so much but they keep going back. No but I I do I do sometimes if it depending on the scene sometimes I say I'll call it. Yeah. And then I'll just I'll give a whenever you're ready because sometimes you you know you can just tell when they're like oh they need a little something or

[00:54:33] whatever but there's also I mean it is a thing. When Clint doesn't like the take he says that's enough of that. Yeah. Is Clint Eastwood the only director to ever call print on auditions. That's generally. Totally. The book really lays out how philosophical. Throw it in the avid. Like the book is definitely not like he just wants to eat lunch because it's like he was been doing this since the 70s. Yeah. Yes. He's a very good director. And that he's just like the more we do it the more you're fucking it up. Like I like whatever you you know.

[00:55:02] I see that David Fincher. Well but that's the thing but then some actors would come I'm sorry to talk about Clint Eastwood but I did just read this book. Yeah. Would you know like Meryl Streep or whatever and be like what like you're not going to let me like find it. No you're great. Standing right there. You look great. This is great. We're done. You know and Kevin Costner famously fought with him on. Yes. Perfect World and he was like I'll shoot with a stand in. Oh my God. Costner had to back off. To your point he's been doing this for so long. It's like what you're saying of like it's a job. He knows how to treat it like a job. Yeah.

[00:55:32] And when he's working with fucking Costner Meryl Streep those are like two of the best performances those actors have given. Definitely. Where he gets into trouble is when he hires people. I agree. That's the thing. Literal non-professional actors like great. And it's like it's not going to get better than that. It's like it probably would. Yeah. If you work with them just wait. A little bit. Yeah. Also it's so funny because I always like like I had an actor who was like I'm I'm not going to be the first take girl. Yeah. Like it's not going to be me. So I'm like okay I'll then I'll cover you second.

[00:56:02] Like you know like so you start to learn on that. So it's interesting. I mean that's a lot of directing in my opinion is understanding the different flows of different actors. Yeah. Yeah. I guess she'd already done the show like but the Marvels is like her first movie. Iman Vellani. Oh my God. Come on. I love her so much. She's so good. But she's done the show. So she was. She's done the show but no it was actually quite great because we I got her. It was similar to getting Alfie after he did 28 years later because that was his first movie. But. That kid's incredible. He was great. Yeah.

[00:56:31] He's so he's so funny. I think. Yeah. I think. I think the first movie is she's just surrounded by adults but my movie. He has like a bunch of teens and so. Hell yeah. They all bullied me and he made fun of me because it took me too long to finish Uncharted. I was like OK. I'm sure I'm directing a film bro. Like sorry. Were you trying to 100 percent it or just get to the end of the. I was. It's not like I was in story mode. I was in normal mode. OK. But I think. I mean to be fair it's not a long game. And it's not Uncharted 4. It's the first Uncharted. I was just. I'm an. I'm a completionist. I was like I'll play it.

[00:57:01] It's boring. The first Uncharted. I mean there's stuff about it that's fun but then it's like OK now I have to duck behind this fucking statue. Did you play that first before the other ones. Yeah. I played the first three Uncharted. I mean well the story of Uncharted famously starts with Nathan Drake being a young boy his uncle before he has a mustache. Right. He's talking about. OK. I was like I don't remember that. Yeah. The movie that was you know that was a time. It's just one of the funniest things to me that's ever happened in Hollywood development. It's such a weird casting. All the casting is so strange. They took so long.

[00:57:30] 15 years of just like. Gotta be the fucking uncle now. We gotta beef that role up. But also it's like he like they're just and I and I listen I appreciate a Boogie Knight's Mark Wahlberg. I love Tom Holland. I think he's a such phenomenal actor. They're both miscast. It's just like doesn't make any sense. It's just so funny to me. They spent 15 years trying to do the version of that movie that everyone wanted to see. Yeah. And then they were like but hear us out. We know we have failed to make the actual Nathan Drake adult movie that you all imagine. What if we did a prequel instead. And also the thing is Tom Holland's never going to grow

[00:58:00] into being Nathan Drake. No. That's that's that's the thing with casting him. It's like what do you think is coming? It's like Timothee Swiss Chalet is never going to grow into being the messiah of Dune. Well I disagree with you on that. Oh fun. But didn't you find it strange. No I love those movies but didn't you find it strange how in the first movie he's like he has this flash forward. Right. And to him as. He's in a stuntman's body with his VFX eyes. You're right. He's never going to. That's not that. His body is not going to change. It will never change.

[00:58:30] But you are also right that like it is the exact thing that makes Tom Holland the most incredible Spider-Man casting of all time of like they finally got a guy who you can have play 24 ever. Yeah. Yeah. And he's also so good at Spider-Man. He's really good at Spider-Man. Yes he is. Let me give you some some takes from you know Ethan Hawk has talked about this about how Peter Weir likes to quote cast for the final color. And you know what does that mean because he was basically like Robert Sean Leonard is very shy and introverted so he didn't

[00:59:00] make sense to me as this role and I am the opposite and so I didn't make sense in this role either. But Robert Sean Leonard said that Weir said to him like don't think about the suicide at all. Like you are not playing this as a boy who's doomed. You're playing this as a kid who's going on to stuff. And Hawk calls the yop scene your favorite scene the most significant professional day of his life is the first time I really felt the experience of being an actor where I could lose myself in a story and lose myself inside a collective imagination.

[00:59:30] They're doing steady cam so it's like this you know cool long thing that I don't know. Yeah he liked it. All right. Fine. This is a boring quote. At least someone liked the I love Ethan Hawk but that's kind of his vibe. Yeah. He'll monologue you know and you're like yeah he liked it. Thank you Ethan. Yeah. I agree with you. Yeah. And then they had fun making the movie. They like they truly did. I think it was freezing but apart from that like everyone was into it. Where'd they shoot? Delaware. Delaware. Oh fun. I guess. The budget was 16 million

[01:00:00] dollars and the schedule was pretty tight. 16. 16. One six. Sweet 16. And like so they had to do it really fast and Peter Weir apparently selects music for each scene and plays the music while everyone's lighting and rehearsing and stuff. I like that. And then it will fade out right as he is starting shooting. So he's trying to sort of like set a tone. I want to know the guy who has to like determine when it's time to. I know. Right.

[01:00:30] And I was going to say harder to fucking do in like a pre iPod era. Yeah. Yeah. Now now directors do that. I'm like yeah okay. Yeah. Fucking found a Bluetooth speaker. We all read the Quentin Turrentino interview. Right. You're just hitting the volume slider down. That must have been like actually a somewhat complicated maneuver. Anyway. I don't do music on set like that at all. No? No. I mean one occasionally if we're doing a night shoot it's a hover dance party but. That's fine. Yeah. And then there's a party scene and had a. We. The whole movie's a party scene. Yeah.

[01:01:00] Or like the scene where everyone's just like ma. We genuinely had like the best like club music playing and everyone was like fuck yeah. That's awesome. Yeah it was great. It was great. I'm sure some of my extras are drunk but. I've had directors do that and I do find that it helps sometimes. Cameron Crowe is famous for that obviously. I'm sure there's a version of it that is annoying but like if it's really ADs usually hate it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. If it's really being used as like a mood setting thing. Exactly. That's that's what it can

[01:01:29] help with I feel like sometimes if it's well curated. Yeah. One thing I love about Dead Poets Society and do want to give this movie its flowers where I you know sometimes is that the opening just to start talking about the movie. Sure. Because it feels like a funeral. Yes. And you are watching it not knowing what this movie is about. being like oh did somebody die and then it's like no school is beginning. Their spirits are dying. Yes. Like because they're all like filing into this church. Yes. And it's so somber and it's so like funereal. The great Norman Lloyd.

[01:01:59] You know we'd love to welcome fucking Hagrid will be teaching creature you know department. It just feels like Hogwarts like suddenly. It is like it's like a wake for their fucking happiness. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. All these boys these you know preppy Protestant boys who are going to I mean become the leaders of America I guess. Right. Did you have to pray? No you wouldn't have prayed at your school. No. I had to pray at my school. You had to pray to who?

[01:02:29] We had to to God. God? To the Christian God. To white Jesus. It was specifically right. Protestant you know waspy God. We had to it was at Rumsey Hall. So we did the Lord's prayer. Right. And then we had the Pledge of Allegiance which it's so weird doing the Pledge of Allegiance. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. When you look back on it. It's crazy. And I remember the first time I realized I didn't have to say it was I saw this Korean student also a boarding student was like not saying it.

[01:02:59] I was like oh. Because she doesn't pledge allegiance to our flag. Yeah. I'm like that person is not from this country. Right. And I was like I'm from here but I also could just not. No one's going to know. Yeah. There was no prayer in my New York City public schools obviously. Yeah. Because that is against the law. At least for the next six months. Yeah. But then I moved to England and there was praying because it is a religious country nominally. Anglicans. And but I remember I was told as a nine-year-old I was like you don't have to if you don't want to. I didn't get that.

[01:03:29] Because I one didn't know what to say. But they would say the Lord's Prayer. St. Anne's was originally run out of the basement of a church a block away. Right. Of course. That is the St. Anne's Church. So it took that name. Yeah. And then once they had their own building they kept the name. And they killed God. They killed God. But it's it's the most heathenous place on earth quite possibly. But people would always be like oh shit you went to Catholic school? Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like you went to kids. No. No. No. I went to a Catholic school where they get hit the kids.

[01:03:58] There was there was the wrong kind of touching. We'll see. This is well documented. Honestly. Google it. I'll say in this. Yeah. As someone I there's moments where Robin Williams. David's wife also went to my high school. She did. Yeah. And she is a public school teacher now. I want to clarify. She's not a private school teacher. She made it out. Yeah. But there's moments in this where Robin Williams is really grabbing the students like by the shoulders and stuff. And he's being very physical with them. And I was like it doesn't seem unrealistic to me but I was shocked by it. Yeah.

[01:04:27] Like you cannot touch students. But I also think that's a good. Now I mean. But I think that's good judgment from we're where you're like yeah like if it's fireable offense you know like this movie has to end with the guy being fired. Is he a good teacher? I OK. I. This is the central question of Dead Poets Society. They mostly seem to just hang out. I also think. It's a poetry class though. I think a lot of. It is cool though. Yes. I think a lot of this movie is excited by art. Cultural legacy right.

[01:04:56] Our age growing up watching this movie for the first time in a world where we've already heard the things repeated. All of us knew the fucking beats and the parodies and whatever. I feel like the last 20 years of Dead Poets Society has been mostly a lot of things making fun of this type of teacher. Yeah. Right. Like that's. The community episode about it. The community episode's a great one. But the idea of just like. The Colin Joe sketch on SNL where they all stand up and like one of them their heads get cut off. Yes. Right. But just this idea of like

[01:05:25] we all find this fun and inspiring. But actually. I don't know guys. I disagree. I had a couple teachers like him. And like I had Mr. Rothwell when I was in public school for two years. He. And I came from a Catholic school where they get hit the kids. And it was so I was like I didn't know what was going on. Sure. I was like you can't. I saw a nun hit a kid and she was too angry. You know. Was it that's not God. It was the nun. And so I know all about her. So if you want to know more about her past before she was killing people.

[01:05:55] But no I had this teacher Mr. Rothwell and like he was very similar in the sense that and he was absolutely ridiculous. He was an actor of course. Right. And when we were he was white and when we were doing reason in the sun. Uh oh. He was like I'll be the part of this person. And I was like oh. Like that's great. Cool. Cool. But he really wanted us to like learn how to think. And it was so clear even though he was ridiculous. We all were like oh like that's what he's doing. Yeah. But we also were like but I mean I got myself in trouble. He was like challenge where you where are your sources

[01:06:24] in history class. And so in history class I was like what are your sources. And my teacher was like the textbook. Don't flip it back on me. She was like shut up. Yeah. This has been vetted. Exactly. I had a couple teachers that meant a tremendous amount to me that changed my life that all did that like all the people who meant something to me were the. They made you rip out pages. No but I'm teaching you how to think not what to think. Absolutely. And like it felt empowering in that way and had that kind of like I'm putting

[01:06:54] this out there waiting to see the kids who need to hear this. Yeah. And who will respond. And then I'm really going to lock in with them. You know. You know. Yeah. It's a very interesting. So the movie is about his year as a teacher with these boys. You don't see him teaching any other classes. I assume he does teach other classes. Yeah. Like he's not just teaching you know juniors or whatever they are. He's not the POV character. We start the movie with the boys. I mean even to your point the opening of this film it's like you start with a

[01:07:23] shot of a mural of a painting of these well behaved boys. Right. Like literally like this is the model of how we want you to look. Right. And then the camera pans down to a small child being dressed up in his uniform. The sort of feeling of the factory line of like this is we're molding you to just be this. Right. And then going into this funereal procession as you said. And then he's introduced that is the announcement like oh he's an alumnus and we're all welcoming Mr. Keating. But we're seeing him basically from the POV of

[01:07:51] these boys in the pew as they're seeing just this guy sitting at the end of the line on the stage. And it's an interesting high school movie in that there's no bully really. There are meaner kids and like less kids who are less into it. One kid is a fucking fink. Yeah. One kid who is a fink. But he's more of like a little coward. Fucking fink. Right. He just he caves. Yeah. But it's like I watched this movie and I hadn't seen it and I was like oh yeah does Josh Charles play the bully because like that's what he

[01:08:20] usually would play in every other. Just plays a normal forehead kisser. He plays a prince charming. All he's trying to do is rescue princesses by kissing him alert. But like right it's about this like largely very sincere group of boys. Yeah. Who seem I sort of I guess the movie's you know arguing like oh Mr. Keating helped them you know learn to think and love poetry and all that. But I'm like taught them how to be in touch with their emotions. Yeah. Exactly. They're very like feely

[01:08:48] boys and it feels like they're pretty on board with him pretty much right away. I do find this movie interesting to watch now in a kind of peak our young men okay era. Right. Where this is a movie that as you said it is kind of about him teaching them to not be afraid of their own emotions. Yeah. Because they're basically like should we have a secret poetry society. Like so working up about Shakespeare and shit. And I'm like is this the healthiest version of a man cave ever. But I mean I went to a school where I loved English.

[01:09:18] I love poetry. I love Shakespeare and all that. It's like it wasn't I wasn't finding like tons of other kids who were like let's do some late night Shakespeare shit together. Bringing fucking cool lamps into the cave. And then girls. Girls. And that's when things went off. Well the thing about theater which I did in high school was that was how you got to meet girls. Yes. So that was crucial. What does he say that this this is no Greek society. Does he say that. To no pederast.

[01:09:48] There's the point where they're like what you just hang out in a cave reading poems with other boys. And Williams like kind of does the eyebrow wiggle of like not just boys. Right. He says I'll find the fucking line. But I mean yes it does feel like he knows wisely much like theater teachers often weaponize this as you said to be like hey guys don't you want to like know how to talk to women. Yeah. Yeah. You have to trap them. Right. There's no homosexual overtones in this movie despite it being like a movie about a bunch of boys at school. Another thing that's

[01:10:18] surprising. Well it's not surprising because of the era. Did you go to All Boys in England? Yes I did. Okay. Have you heard of Meat Lips? Oh boy. Oh. Don't Google that. Don't Google that. I like how this is going. Did you go to All Boys Griffin? No. Okay. Did you go to All Boys? No. Okay. No. So I go to England. He's like Ben sucks. I go to England. I go to public school at my local school when I'm nine years old and then I to everyone's surprise I tested into this like good school like but that was a boys school.

[01:10:46] My mom was like my I must have been so hard for my mom like in retrospect was like I'm going to send him to like a all boys school where he wears a fucking tie like I was living in New York two years ago. Like what is going on? Adorable? I was very adorable. Of course. I have to see a picture when we're done. Sure I'll find a picture but no I don't know what meat lips is. Is that what you just said? Yeah so so so from at my boarding school some boys came from an all boys school and meat lips is basically where a boy would go into his pants rub his balls

[01:11:16] with his hands and then smack a boy on the on the mouth and go meat lips. Is this a British thing or you're saying it's just a boy in New England? But I would say that sort of stuff was happening plenty. I was always so worried about I once I heard that I was like are will I get men okay? They would never go to a girl. No no men are okay. Yeah it was really crazy how focal your penises were in your daily lives. Getting pantsed was a big thing about a boys school. The thing about a boys school is yes like there's there's maybe too much familiarity and discussion

[01:11:45] of everyone's penises. Yeah yeah. Where it's like you know if there are girls around or maybe everyone kind of like knows to just sort of chill out a little bit that's the problem with a boys school. The advantage of boys schools is that everyone's just lazy and stinky like because there's no I'm sorry that's the advantage? It smells bad. Like to me what was crazy about going to a boys school was girls schools because all the girls I knew who went to girls schools those places were crazy. Like it was so much psychological torment and awful shit.

[01:12:15] Girls were seeing so mean to each other. Whereas if you put boys together yeah there's a little bullying and stuff like there's some jocks and door. But like mostly it's just like 14 year old boys who are just like we're just disgusting. Yeah. We're just all disgusting together. So it's sort of like a keeping you contained quote unquote chill atmosphere I guess. Yes. Interesting. I don't know. Meatlip seems really unchilled to me. That sounds quite unchilled. Yeah. Maybe it's England's different. I don't know. No England's Actually no it's not no it's actually terrible.

[01:12:44] I have a couple of guy friends who went in England who went to boarding school and from the age of like eight and they're all very sad about it. Well that and especially boarding school in England and I would meet people you know and their parents would have gone to boarding school and they had never gotten over it. Yeah. Because I feel like it's you know the Roald Dahl books and all that about his experience in boarding school of like just just institutional bullying like where it's like that sort of the older boys like the structure of like well I was bullied so now I'm going to bully you. Yeah. The hierarchy. Right. Yeah exactly.

[01:13:13] Like it just seems awful. And you're like obviously. Yeah obviously. And then like teaching would be I mean the guy he's telling them to rip the book out. Right. That's a real thing. That's some fucking famous academic from the early 20th century is like yeah poetry should be like put on a graph of like how good it is. That is actually the most insane. It's not made up. It's so crazy. Yeah. And like I mean good for him being like that's silly like or whatever but like yeah it's like that was I guess how frigid their education was supposed to be.

[01:13:42] Did you guys have this game? Oh boy. Of course Ben. Yeah. I'm not looking. All right. Did you like. Go ahead. Oh. I was going to say. Punching boys. It's crazy. Doorknob and safety really were cast a big shadow over my adolescence. What does that mean? Doorknob safety? That if you fart you have to call safety before anyone else calls it calls you out on it and if they say doorknob

[01:14:11] and correctly accuse you of farting before you've said safety. Yeah. Then they get to keep punching you until you touch a doorknob. Oh my gosh. That one I don't know really. I don't know if that's sounding vaguely familiar. It's so the mind of a teenager like this sort of like inventiveness of punishment. This is the other thing. Look the internet existed when we were teenagers but like social media didn't exist in the same kind of way. These things weren't open source. Yeah. The most we had was like some instant messaging trauma.

[01:14:41] But like whatever you experience at your school you're like this must be the most universal thing in the world. Right. I just assumed all three of you were going to laugh uproariously when I said doorknob and safety for all I know maybe no one else has ever done this. Reddit R nostalgia. This is what I'm saying Everyone else plays safety doorknob when farting as a kid. We couldn't go to Reddit to find out if this was a game. Do you want to Reddit meat lips? Yeah. Reddit meat lips. R slash meat lips.

[01:15:17] David. Yep. I love wearing hats. Oh. I'm a hats man. You are. What do you. If I said it was a hats man. I would agree. Certainly. And much like Daniel Plainview I love starting businesses. Yeah. But I'll tell you the one part of the starting a business I don't like having to wear so many hats all at once. I'm a one hat at a time guy. Okay. Well I guess you can only have one hat at a time and you know you're just going to be intimidated and lonely. That's the concern.

[01:15:45] But here's an option. Uh huh. What if Shopify could metaphorically take some of those hats off your head and start wearing them themselves. Look Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world. 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. Pretty crazy stat. Uh you know we've we're working on getting our own Shopify page up. We're relaunching our merch with our own Shopify page and they're the dream business part. But like you know Mama

[01:16:13] Fuku Heinz Mattel. Oh yeah. Heard of them. I just bought a lot of He-Man toys and got tracking updates from Shopify. So Shopify obviously you know gets you started with your own design studio. They got hundreds of ready to use templates. Yeah. You can build a big beautiful online store matching your brand style. Mm hmm. Get uh you know you can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns where wherever your

[01:16:43] customers are scrolling and strolling. I like that. I love to scroll. That's really good language and David. Yes. I enjoy as a consumer on the other side of the transaction. Sure. That I can open my Shopify app and I see all my orders there. I see the tracking updates. I can keep track of what I've ordered. Can I tell you some things I ordered recently? Vinegar Syndrome. The fine folks of Vinegar Syndrome. Love them. I ordered Rod A. Jude's Dracula which is not part of our upcoming Patreon series but I thought it was good supplemental watching. Yeah. And young Sankmeyer's

[01:17:13] Faust. Very good. Lovely diss from those fine folks. Thank you. I bought an action figure of Andor and his droid friend. What's his droid? Emo. Yeah. From the fine folks at Twink. The store is called Twink. But now that I finally watched Andor and I'm Andor-pilled. We love it. I had to ask Twink. We support you. To give me an Andor figure in exchange for money. Right. I also bought replicas of the sunglasses from They Live from the fine folks at Fright Rags. These are things I'm

[01:17:42] keeping track of that are very important and mature. Yeah. Look. You could be like some of the brands that are selling Griffin beautiful things. You can either start a business and look for Griffins to sell things to or you can be a Griffin and buy too many things. So start your business today with the industry's best business partner Shopify and start hearing cha-ching. Cha-ching. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash check. Go to shopify.com slash check.

[01:18:10] That's shopify.com slash check. Cha-ching. Cha-ching. David. Yes. They say that the eyes are the window to the soul. They do say that. What does that make our glasses? The windows. The window frames. I don't know. The curtains. Yeah. The curtains. The point is if you are a glasses wearer like I am or like our own producer Ben is. True. It's a big decision. Sure. Because this is how you introduce yourself to the

[01:18:40] world. This is engage with other people. You make eye contact through the frames. Sometimes it's just time for a refresh. Totally agree. All right. Well, so what about Zeni Optical? Oh. The fine folks with Zeni glasses. The eyewear. They got fun shapes. Sizes and colors. They got a lot of colors. Right. Statement pieces. Bold statement pieces they call them. And they're inexpensive I would say.

[01:19:09] They're an online eyewear shop with prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses all starting at under $30. That's crazy. That is very low. I feel like glasses often cost more than $30. Way more. But you go to Zeni.com. You pick a frame. You upload your prescription. They ship it to your door. No appointment. No store. No upsell at the counter. Easy. At that price. Yeah. Something kind of shifts. You're not like do I need new glasses? You're like why don't I try something fun? Right? Sometimes you got an old pair. They got a scratch on them. It's annoying.

[01:19:39] But you're like am I going to go through the hassle? Or the screws start to get loose and you find yourself taking out that microscopic little screwdriver over and over again to tighten them up. At this price why not just get another pair? Ben I ordered a pair of the Magoo. I think this is funny. Okay. We all know from Mr. Magoo the cartoon character who can't see. And Zeni is saying let's solve that problem. Let's give you glasses called Magoo. They're blue and green.

[01:20:09] Two of my favorite colors. A nice boxy frame. I also ordered a pair. I got crystal sand oval sunglasses. Very reminiscent of a Kurt Cobain-esque looking pair of sunglasses that I feel like you also wore in the film Pavements. Very similar. Yes. Yes. When I played Steve West. I was somewhat inspired by you. Yeah. And I got these great sunglasses. They're sort of clear frames. Yeah. With a greenish tinted lens. I'm wearing the Magoo as just everyday

[01:20:38] optical prescription glasses and let me say I'm having the opposite of Mr. Magoo experiences. They've got 150,000 five-star reviews. Yeah. And if you've never run glasses online before they have a virtual try-on so you can see how it's going to look on your face before you commit. If your glasses are overdue for a refresh now's the time. Go to zenni.com slash podcast and use code podcast15 for 15% off your first order.

[01:21:08] This dials sell out so don't sit on it. That's Z-E-N-N-I dot com slash podcast promo code podcast15. The line William says is we weren't a Greek organization we were romantics. Oh, sure, sure. Yes. Which I guess is more of a fraternity. Right. I mean the you know what Keating is doing

[01:21:37] is just being like hey this textbook is silly we're going to think about art in a more meaningful way. Right. But then the kids are so into him that they are like what was your they find the old yearbook and they're like oh you had the Dead Poets Society what was that and he's like almost half mocking even though they like him they're like what is this dorky thing and the way that he with such inner confidence like says the thing about like we suck the marrow out of life like we like fucking lived it up this shit was rad you see them all

[01:22:07] get sparked of like oh fuck is it cool to care about shit but that's the age when you're you're so receptive to that actually absolutely you need someone to tell you like it's okay to feel things yeah it's okay to be like genuine yeah and that scene is so intoxicating yeah we're jumping ahead now but yes it is crazy to me re-watching this how like the first 15 minutes of the movie you're like oh shit almost all of the iconic stuff happens in the first 15 minutes it's true a lot of the big

[01:22:37] the carpe diem ripping out the yeah oh captain my captain like all that stuff is set up basically in the first class alone you're like most of the cultural reputation of this movie is basically the first 15 minutes in the last five yeah you know with like the stuff in the middle is the stuff that I think not that's forgotten but is less discussed also it's less exciting like yeah Josh Charles kissing a girl and like you know her boyfriend and blah blah blah it's like no who cares I think the middle act of this movie

[01:23:06] is pretty dull yeah it's the duller part but yes he hits the ground running this guy fucking first class it's just like here's my deal another question about this guy I hate to nitpick this guy but it's like right he had such an exciting high school life I guess okay went to Cambridge we learned and studied English now he's fucking back at like his private school that he went to he says it I love teaching just go teach somewhere else asshole where's his partner

[01:23:36] yeah who's he married to she's in England yeah get back to England then fucking what's he doing here in snow town Massachusetts doesn't the autumn and the winter doesn't it look so nice that is it's very it's so romantic you guys have a few teachers I had a few teachers in my school who had gone to the school like in my high school who were like alumni like two or three and I remember being just like you wanted to come I mean I like the school fine but I was like

[01:24:05] you wanted to come back here you didn't want to go somewhere else do you find now that you have people you went to school with who are now doing that because I have a couple people I went to high school with and I'm like that's a good question just go somewhere else it's just like it's fun there must be one or two go carpe diem in like Baltimore or something actually carpe diem here I will say those also weren't the teachers that like changed my life I definitely had a couple who had gone to the school they were not the ones who really stuck with me whatever that says there's the scene the Robert John Leonard scene it does feel like

[01:24:34] he says that where he's just like if you're so great why the fuck are you teaching here and his answer is it's what I love doing and I think the subtext of that also is that like because when he shows up in the class the first day he's like what's the name of the fucking school the school that they're at yeah Wilton Academy right he says right I'm also a wait a second graduate like he's leading with this sort of sense of I know how much this place sucks yeah I'm someone who made it

[01:25:04] out the other side I think the reason he goes back there is because he wants to like repay the loop yeah these are boys who are gonna get fucking crushed like save them although I it's interesting again it's like there's a lot of movies in this movie that I am maybe more interested by because like there's this scene early as Sean where the other teacher not an administrator kind of calls him out being like you're doing what like you're working on pages and shit

[01:25:34] your kids are running around they're friends though right and they're friends and he's kind of saying and William says like oh you're a cynic and he goes no I'm a realist yeah exactly and the guy's basically saying like look I'm not mad about you doing it but right but like I don't think this is gonna work out for you why are you telling them all that they can be artists you're gonna turn them all into frustrating frustrated failed artists right like he's basically saying don't empower all of them yeah like just keep it cute you know right he's giving the advice essentially of like also like don't like

[01:26:03] make a false promise of they're gonna be able to do whatever they want and I guess that's pointing to the end of the movie but I find the end of the movie a little dishonest so well at the end he's walking with his class outside and he gives him a nod yeah yeah which is very cute he's like heating up in the tower yeah that's the other thing I don't think this guy's ever long for this school he doesn't fight the firing it feels like even if they hadn't fired him I wouldn't be surprised if this guy left after a year it feels like he wants

[01:26:32] to go back there right he wants it to be something he wants to be able to do this but it's like the principal of this school is like well I think I think children are awful and books should be shouted at them and I will paddle anyone who disagrees with him he's like the worst guy in the world the paddling scene kind of rocks Weir kind of knocks that out of the park yeah yeah I know he does he does it's a very long time but I think they don't expand on it that much it's a throwaway moment but the very attractive

[01:27:02] blonde woman he has a frame photo of on his desk who's in England I just have to imagine that this is sort of like you know what I'll go back there and teach for a year while she's doing a graduate program abroad or something it feels like there's some reason why he has to be long distance with his girlfriend for a year it doesn't come up but yeah and so he's why not do this rather than I want to be a fucking part of the firmament of this place for decades yeah even when he shows up like his energy is just so I mean it's very Robin Williams-y but it's so like

[01:27:32] I don't know ephemeral it is a perfect use of him you were saying how important Robin Williams was to you he was just like for our generation yeah in the 90s he was the biggest he's the guy he was the guy and to be a child and be like this guy makes like the best family movies he also feels like the ultimate celebrity anytime he shows up on TV he's gonna be funny and yet you're aware like he is taken seriously by grownups yeah there's this side

[01:28:02] of him that I'm not getting yet yeah he's not just inventing flubber out here yo flubber was my shit flubber rule flubber was I haven't seen it in 30 years I remember having a couple notes on that one as well when you were 8 with your pen I think I was 11 when I saw flubber and I was too old for flubber possibly flubber's 97 yeah that was 11 97 98 remember jack jack's kind of fun jack I've often referred to as my least favorite movie

[01:28:31] ever made jack is tough yeah that's a tough movie but sad at the end yeah sure it's also sad at the beginning that's why he ages he ages a lot yeah that was upsetting directed by oh yeah Francis Portopola his low point but Francis okay we can't talk about Frank okay we can't yeah no it's too much you haven't lopped it off yet you gotta lop it off before we talk about Frank wait lop what off megalopolis oh oh I haven't seen it yet yeah exactly you gotta lop it off oh yes yeah

[01:29:01] I um listen I bought it I was so excited I went to see it in theaters or I wanted to and then I just never got around to it and then I just do I have time of the day look he's starting to recut it it's not finished there'll probably seven more versions of megalopolis yeah he's from an era where it was like here's the director's cut and the extended cut and the this cut and the that cut and it's like but you you made the movie with your own money so it should just be your cut right it's true who's who's who's getting your notes Franny yeah

[01:29:30] he did an interview and maybe it's already come out by this point I bet it was normal but he did an interview recently very normal where he was like I might try doing a weirder cut and I'm like a weirder cut my guy oh my god you had no notes on this fucking self-funded fever dream by all means go off show me your weirder cut but why wasn't that the first cut it's long as well it's pretty long it's pretty long it's not like the longest movie but like it's up there for length it's not the shortest either

[01:30:00] um Dev Ho Society so yeah you know they rip out the book and he says carpe diem I like that they don't pathologize this character too much that they don't over explain him okay that he does feel a little magical well cause now if the movie came out now there'd be a scene uh where you'd see they'd realize he's an alcoholic and blah blah 20 scenes right there's there's this sort of uh a purity to just like yeah we don't really know he's we know he's an alum it would absolutely

[01:30:30] open with this guy like walking into the building with his briefcase on the first day I mean like I love The Holdovers a movie I think you only like I like um that to me is a better sort of version of the cause the same vibe obviously it's actually uh you know period boarding school in Massachusetts where it's just like the teachers are like I'm a crusty piece of shit like I shouldn't be here if I wanted to you know if I'd achieved my goals

[01:30:59] like I wouldn't be here but I can still help you like hurt people can still help each other well yeah but that movie is almost the exact shadow self of this movie right that's a guy who's stuck here forever and you're like why you seem tortured and you're torturing others right and also it is from his perspective more than the kid yeah um yeah but it is a similar feeling I had a similar feeling of like oh I'm just we're just vibing out we're just look at the dorm look at the school look at the architecture New England it's gorgeous yeah Dead Poets Society

[01:31:28] is a beautiful movie and it really anytime I'm sort of just like when I was watching it I'm like I was just like this looks so fucking of course I do autumn but I'm like the autumn new Hollywood right brings about a kind of shift in the visuals of American film I would argue where people were trying to avoid a feeling of like overly manicured sumptuousness right yeah which then you're like why is it so ugly even a lot of the big

[01:31:57] epics of the 70s and 80s were like lit hey Pacino why so ugly why so ugly baby were lit a lot more flatly than the like equivalent movies of the 60s and before that right because there was this feeling of like we're going for a naturalism a roughness this movie still has like the grain structure of like the 80s before the 90s really like improved film speeds and then you get these films that just look like immaculately shiny and glossy and it feels like that style comes back into fashion but it does feel like this movie

[01:32:27] establishes like a color palette and a lighting scheme that then kind of becomes the default for like sensitive serious studio dramedy yeah John Seale would you call this a dramedy? I would call it a dramedy yeah um a light drama it was nominated as a drama in uh the Golden Globes I would call this a drama I would call this a straight up drama it has suicide and stuff in it I guess it's light-ish in that like the first chunk

[01:32:56] of it is yeah like oh he's a nice teacher but like it's kind of a sad movie like because even when he's being it's just like you're just like this sucks yeah this fucking sucks these boys gotta go to this fucking place Norman Lloyd not yeah Norman Lloyd right is the principal you know he's great he is great so good you know it's just like this sucks um John Seale who shot it just to reference that you know Weir picks him up from out of Australian obscurity for witness and he had done you know

[01:33:26] uh Mosquito Coast uh like he'd he'd been working with Weir for a second yeah but he'd also done right before this Gorillas in the Mist and Rain Man which are similar vibe yeah where it's like we're going back like you're saying to this kind of like burnished more lush kind of prestigy look for these kinds of movies and then right after this he does Lorenzo's Oil which is a gorgeous movie which is like the ultimate the apex of exactly

[01:33:56] yeah right I'm like that's we finally perfected the 90s Oscar movie look right and then people are like enough already you know like yeah because now people are like is that movie even good right and then he shot Fury Road right yeah I saw it in high school he shot it he shot Fury Road and 3,000 years long he's only worked he's basically retired but he's isn't he 100 John Seale is 82 he's so old I honestly George Miller and him shooting Fury Road I'm just like baby are you okay it is the ultimate I feel like

[01:34:26] with each passing year it just becomes harder to understand how that movie was made and the more information that comes out and especially well they took all these vehicles onto the Fury Road oh of course and the Dew Warrior was there and so on and so forth but I do feel like it is the ultimate movie that filmmakers cite where they're just like I can't get my head around this it's like I cannot it's Soderbergh's famous quote where he's like my three questions are how did they ever finish making this movie how did no one die

[01:34:55] and I forget what the third one is yeah the fact that it's like a masterpiece let alone a movie that cuts together is insane yeah no it's I find it especially like I read Kyle's book about it and yes who I think is such a great writer and you know you're just like I could have never done that because I the amount of fighting he had to do it's insane obfuscating ignoring yeah I don't know

[01:35:24] running off into the wilderness to avoid you know like it's crazy and also like 15 years of not making it being like nope not right yeah you know like I gotta stand my ground I know exactly what this fucking thing is and then it's just like everyone hated him while he was making it and then saw the screening and was like oh you were right yeah like how the fuck do you like have that clear sense of it in your head yeah and somehow get exactly what you want out of everybody even in a way at a time where you can't communicate it to them yeah yeah

[01:35:54] it's madness fascinating madness okay so what else happens they revout the book scene one he sparks them pretty quickly they're on board as you said he has the conversation with the other teacher what were you gonna say Nia well I mean the boys Noanda my favorite he's my favorite and he doesn't really act after I know he's good high level studio exec he did Gail Hanson I believe is his name yes yes he was so cute sort of flipped over

[01:36:24] to being in an internship where I worked under his wife who was just like you know what's weird my husband was that guy in Dead Poets Society and then he kind of never acted again yeah I thought he was really good he's really good he's good all the kids are good would you agree I mean like yes yeah I mean but they all and they all I was just like amazed at how good the casting was because they all are like you know Ethan Hawke Dr. Wilson yes and that ginger bastard but it is it is this like

[01:36:54] era of as David was saying there was just like a crop of brown haired boys who were all just ready to go and there were all these movies that kept being like we need four of you that's the right now though don't you think I think we're finally back like it was so because I was also I was talking to someone I'm like who's a movie star because there's so many white boys right now yes but are any of them actually bankable it's really interesting I think the bankability is a question and it's very much still in flux I think Tim Timmy is the only one who has like

[01:37:24] definitively proven himself in that area but it does feel like there is a really strong crop of young white guys for the first time in like 20 years yeah and they're all just and they're I think similar energy they're all battling it out until someone is like you know what I need five of you I'm like oh thank god but the other difference is it feels like these guys all are a little bit Ethan Hawkey where they're just like I fucking care about this and I want to do it right and I don't care about being seen as dorky about loving acting and I want to work with good people they're not just like

[01:37:53] doing the movie star playbook 100% they want to be like important in a way that is was seen as embarrassing for a while and I think that's finally come back around it's interesting that like Hawk who as you say like had already done kid performances he goes on to obviously be pretty quickly he's a star like by 94 we've got reality bites but even in 91 he did like White Fang he was doing kind of like you know but by reality bites he is like a fully defined Robert Sean Leonard I feel like

[01:38:23] just became one of those guys everybody likes but it's the house role is sort of like a whole reinvention for him before then it was like we love him and he does theater and you know I was gonna say I feel like he was one of those ultimate guys who was like he's not that interested in chasing the Hollywood thing he loves doing theater he's so well regarded in theater and he's played is he a Tony? he has did he win for Arcadia? uh let's find out I think you're right I think you're right no you are wrong he got a Tony nomination

[01:38:53] for Candida okay uh I'm not sure if he did Arcadia uh he did the Invention of Love oh he won a Tony for the Invention of Love yay another Tom Stopper play but did he do Arcadia? I'll find out okay I think he did the Music Man at some point as well that also sounds right he sings? I can't remember yeah yeah he replaced Craig Bierko in that Music Man that's funny with Chenoweth? uh I don't know sounds right uh he yes

[01:39:22] incredibly respected David I've never been wrong once on this podcast not seen Chenoweth uh but you know Chenoweth look at the Arcadia thing because I need to be proven correct about this he did Arcadia woo woo Tom Stopper thank you guys so much it is what I was going to say is it's funny Billy Crotter Victor Garber for someone who had this heat when he was young and such a huge part and such a huge movie that it was like and then he kind of like eschewed that whole thing

[01:39:51] and really focused on theater and then you're like right and he did 10 years of house he probably made 1 trillion dollars oh my god and it's such a life that house role it's the perfect fucking role because it's like you probably only work one day a week perfect work yeah like mostly Wilson in that show is sitting behind his desk and house comes in and is like I'm fucking dumb house I'm a rascal you know and Wilson's like oh boy and then like once in a while he does more stuff but usually you just do that he got paid like

[01:40:19] 150,000 dollars per eye roll at thing house says that show was so crazy I was re-watching it and it's really good especially I would say the first 3-4 seasons yeah yeah I've gone beyond that point I've just heated off a bit on fire is like one of the most undeniable performances but also so inappropriate oh my god but I think the episode 3 stories I mean house is like beloved and people watch it all the time but and yet it's sort of forgotten in that early prestige era yeah 3 stories which is from the first season of house

[01:40:49] it is one of the most amazing pieces of TV writing is that the one it's the one that reveals how he got the list it's like an early season one when he's being he's cutting forces him to do the lecture yes yes yeah um the uh dead poet society so he rips out the pages and he says carpet deal oh my god wait okay no this is what no no so this is what I was actually getting to which was like the boys they each have a thing they do right so the one boy is like I'm gonna kiss a girl without her consent another one is um um I like theater now

[01:41:18] all of a sudden um Nwanda is I'm just gonna change my name to Nwanda I'm gonna write appropriate every exactly and he's but he's also like I'm gonna I'm gonna live that life yeah yeah he's kind of the original Jake Sully sure in that he draws some paint on his face okay guys thank you so much thank you so much for the we gotta go gotta get out of here oh man uh yes no they each have a little kind of mini arc of like what does he empower them to be able to do yeah it is funny that with distance

[01:41:48] you're like a few of these kids didn't need the empowering yeah uh Ethan Hawke he empowers to uh be able to say a sentence out loud at room tone which I I like that scene it's really good yeah I feel like this movie what this movie does really well it's very hard in a film to show an audience art and be like this is good or to like explain that is a great passion for an art form it is the Mr. Holland's opus thing that David always talks about which is what you spend an entire movie being like

[01:42:18] this guy's fucking life's work and you do the opus at the end and it sucks ass yeah and you're like this guy doesn't sell the audience on the power of music and his music is bad to get mad about the reddit but there was some threat about my common complaint about Mr. Holland's opus which is of course that yes his opus is toilet um and people are like he doesn't get the message that like actually all the kids he taught over the years are his opus so I'm like I got that message they kind of hammer it home I know the movie's not like

[01:42:47] fucking Chinatown I actually read that thread it's not like you couldn't you were telling us before you recorded that you read the reddit way too much I do I do we are your opus and he's like I guess so I mean like to be clear in the movie he's such a curmudgeon yeah but then he's like oh yeah sure and then they're like and now you're opus and they're like it's just also here's a retort if the kids were his opus is that that much of an accomplishment either they stink they all stink I can't sell this thing for a second but you are right

[01:43:16] I do think this is a movie that like actually sells you the audience on what it's trying to sell the kids yes right yes and I also think it's a really good screenwriting decision that they like are sparked by the guy they're like what's this guy's fucking deal they go and find the yearbook they find the weird thing that they bring to him almost half mockingly yeah he doesn't say like boys this is what you need to do yeah go find a cave and read each other poems girls will show up he's sort of beyond

[01:43:45] reproach to me personally I mean mine is destroying school property uh-huh of the books but um I'm like he it's really it's not well they go off I'd like that they're basically self-motivated they are yeah well there's this question of like right you know at the end of the movie uh Robert John Leonard's character says you know seeks his advice on the whole like I want to act and my dad doesn't want me to do it that scene is so good that's incredible this scene is really well acted Keating doesn't do anything wrong no

[01:44:15] but Keating definitely sort of knows like you can see on Williams' face like his dad's not gonna go for this this isn't going well like you know like cause Keating says like look talk to him tell him how you feel about this say exactly what you're saying to me right and then they have this second conversation where he's like and you talk to him and he's like yeah it didn't go well but you know and you're kind of like no it's not like Keating is responsible for this kid then killing himself or whatever but you are kind of like but it is it's all a little out of hand right like you know

[01:44:44] he's not doing much communication up or with the parents or whatever like he could be trying to intervene a little more the other thing I think Williams plays really well is you get the sense in him that he is questioning am I responsible for this in any way right that he plays that very quietly it's another thing that's helped by him not being the POV character of the movie right so he's sort of in and out and you're not sure like how involved but it doesn't feel like he fights the firing yeah and it's obviously not his fault but there is this part of him of just like

[01:45:14] I'm just telling kids to fucking yeah you know say whatever they want and do whatever they want I'm not really thinking about and you can't not feel totally somewhat not responsible but yeah in a way guilt has no logic really you know so exactly exactly it's just crazy that the dad and then the administration blames his teaching instead of looking at the obvious which is that the dad is forcing his son to do stuff that he really

[01:45:44] doesn't want to do right but the school can't deal with that right no I understand but it's just such an annoying example of bureaucracy that really gets under my skin it's like so stupid but I also think the school exists to mirror that viewpoint of the dad right like the the function of this school in terms of what it's promising parents is like we're gonna kick all the fucking we're getting your kids ready for we'll do it don't worry doctoring and lawyering and whatever like that

[01:46:14] that's the promise of the premise you know that's what's on the bottle here is like we're gonna make them fucking upstanding citizens of society right and it's just like they're just printing doctor lawyer yeah right and you see them side-eyeing Williams from the beginning even before there's any demonstrable damage of what he's done even before the Gail Hansen character has the act out or whatever and there's anything they can sort of like reprimand Williams for they're already like this could be dangerous you know

[01:46:43] we don't need these kids like fucking believing in themselves that's not what they're paying us for in middle school he got into trouble because he wanted us to read Antigone and we were sixth graders I think it's a little early for Antigone dude Antigone but my wife teaches Antigone what age I would say more like ninth grade yeah which you know yes me however I don't read it because I'm a loser and I

[01:47:13] but I was like yeah there's a lot of suicide in that very dark things I think incest is an Antigone as well you know Antigone is the sequel to Oedipus yeah exactly and yeah so but if you really think about it that's my opinion sorry absolutely I'm sorry no I always forget like when I'm in the presence of it I'm always like oh of his bullshit it's just unstoppable have I ever told you you're a bit boy

[01:47:44] you're not wrong this is like when Kevin Durant went on Bill Simmons years ago started talking about the blog boys you're a bit boy you're a bit boy I'm a nasty little bit boy I was I was telling a friend of mine who's a bit boy I was like oh you're such a bit boy he's like what's a bit boy I'm like you're a boy doing bits yeah yeah you know laser accuracy yeah bit boy yeah I love it for you though but this is your world bit boy away look hey the bits paid for all of this you're sitting in a home

[01:48:13] of bits look upon the toys look at this sorry because the monologue is like a long bit but it's also like you are an actor so it's like this like it's in a bit sort of middle space oh excellent jesus christ david did a bit at some point i don't remember if it was on mic or if it was off mic that's a really good question it's kind of that's become a bit of an andy kaufman thing where it's hard to tell where

[01:48:43] the bit ends is he still in control of it i don't know it makes me i'm so nervous oh i forgot to call my friend so we're all just taking phone calls sorry excuse me hello no okay um yeah he david at some point a couple years ago did an impression of his daughter being a teenager and being dismissive about the podcast and angrily saying oh those bits you're making fun they paid for all earth they paid for your education disgusting it's disgusting yeah

[01:49:12] all my costs covered by his bits my fucking bits um let's talk more about dead poet society yeah what is that just kidding um he fucking rips out the page carpe diem and then they paddle his ass yeah that was funny if the principal paddled robin williams oh that's a different kind of story my guess is they're leaving it downstairs don't worry it's fine um i just ordered it because i know i'm gonna have to go pick up my daughter after this so i got a couple of books

[01:49:42] oh should we talk about the script i'm good yes copay diem does feel like it does not become a thing that anyone can say in any conversation and is understood without that movie with this movie right like it does feel like even if people don't know that it's from dead poet society anymore well griffin it's latin it's right it's of course from morris's odes i'm saying how many latin phrases can you drop into any conversation without the need to translate carpe diem has always been in my life

[01:50:12] and this movie came out when i was three so yes maybe i maybe it's all even just like a a basic kind of like frat boy level like carpe motherfucking diem like the fact that you can just do you think it's funny that robert sean leonard wants to be an actor this school this school doesn't have drama no so it's like he doesn't get to do a school play he has to do like local theater yeah no it's the girl school it isn't the girl school yeah so sometimes the schools will um that is something

[01:50:41] that is something they say it's like two areas interesting yeah all right all right i think that's when they meet all the girls at the dance right and from there laura walters basically cut out of the film but laura flan boyle is one of the actresses in the play yeah oh i totally miss that interesting oh you have puck energy thank you yeah i'll take was he a grumpy puck huh was he a grumpy puck yeah me what you just told all the characters to get along with it whatever oh yeah yeah i was like yeah yeah fucking girdle around the earth

[01:51:11] 20 minutes what do you want from me wait how old were you when you played puck uh i was like 14 maybe yeah 14 or 15 are you a good actor no no very bad me neither i had a sparkly i had this like sparkly sweater david seems to lead cast of next feature yeah you're gonna do me a monologue no i'm a bad actor i'm a bad actor i liked drama because i like theater and i like shakespeare and i like you know

[01:51:40] like i dug the class and all that like i did it entirely in school but um i just you know as griffin knows i sort of i there my i don't have a performance drive that engages enough or something i just would kind of i mean i don't know i think i wasn't like blowing my lines i think i was just kind of flat yeah it was just kind of whatever you have pretty uh severe stage anxiety if not stage fright but then i i think we when we were i just don't like it well this is the bigger thing i'm not like some people

[01:52:10] were like true people are like having a panic attack or throwing up before they get on a stage when we started doing live shows and we don't do them often yeah and it felt like it was a little bit of an uphill battle to get you to do them i felt like you had more acute anxiety leading up to the first couple and then there was the moment where ben and i were like he's gonna get out there and realize like the audience will be happy whatever he says and he's gonna get the bug and i remember you walking off stage one time and being like yeah i just feel nothing yeah it doesn't like i feel a relief of the anxiety i had before but like i guess

[01:52:39] i don't have the chance that makes people want to do this because it's like it's a sickness to want to do like open mics right because it's like you're punishing yourself because you're going in front of these people who are hostile absolutely and being like hey so here's what's up with my dick you're broken if you need that i saw a picture of you dressed up as waddle oh yeah and i and i and i just really because i think as listeners know my first impression oh yes griffin is um and david trivia monsters because they're so good and he never would win and the second is

[01:53:09] um as just like a comedian doing vh1 fits right right so to see you dressed as waddle i was like oh this is his true form it is yeah yeah i just yeah it's sort of like but it speaks to that exact uh what what is broken inside me that i have to put on a waddle costume right like whatever rush i should be visceral rush i should be getting from performing i think i'm not getting it

[01:53:40] performing in front of fans of blank checks who are obviously a warm audience but no but you you do come alive doing it and then you just walk off and you're like huh so you you guys like love doing that i'm not dismissive at all to be clear i don't want it to sound like i am we always get feedback where people are like david's so great yeah he's so good live but but that's that means your mental hygiene must be really good yeah he's the most normal man alive yeah like wait a second there's plenty wrong up here let me open my fifth spreadsheet

[01:54:10] that's where it's all going it is another like i just think like masterfully um realized and judge sequences in this movie is robert sean leonard after the play backstage and just a series of like very kind of understated moments of just that feeling of oh my god i found my thing he's and i played out entirely on this kid's face he's really good before too when he's nervous and he knows his dad's out there and you can see him

[01:54:39] like again just on his face like should i just fucking not do this you know and you also hope that it's like the dad's gonna come up and be like i was wrong son what you did out there i want to put my foot in your critics ass yeah sister act two you know right it's like you think yeah you want it to be a school of rock moment where they're all like we were wrong we get it you have to do this yeah um and yeah the fact that he has this sort of like private moment backstage not even with the rest of the cast who are all

[01:55:08] complimenting him but then he like goes into the blind spot behind the curtain and just kind of like takes a breath in and it's just like you're like this guy feels complete for the first time in his entire life and he knew it from the moment he auditioned that there was something there yeah but having completed it so successfully and thinking also maybe maybe my dad's my i'm showing my dad and now he's seen me and he's in that one moment of maybe yeah because then he has but then his because then he's like oh your dad's one like is back there and he has a moment where

[01:55:37] he's like maybe oh fuck comes around yeah he comes around the curtain and he looks and his dad is still just standing against the back wall and the audience is basically emptied out and it's like oh my god he's here yeah he stayed through it he's waiting to talk to me yeah isn't it correct me if i'm wrong because i've only seen the movie once in the last 25 years or whatever it's like kirkwood smith's character it's like they're not old money like some of these kids no correct he's successful he's like a doctor or something but he grew up kind of poor it's implied and so he has a

[01:56:07] little bit of the kind of like you cannot be fucking around like i keep saying we don't have the kind of money yeah yeah i mean the suicide scene is like i mean it's very like tastefully done by we or whatever but the mom saying he's okay is like very upsetting the whole thing is awful and kirkwood smith's response at the same time right it's i don't like that he kills himself because i don't think he should have done that no i just feels like you cast judgment i don't quite and god will cast

[01:56:37] the ultimate judgment i just don't know if the movie earns it i have a similar feeling but yeah it's like why did he do it his dad wouldn't let him act i'm just like i don't think we got there guys yeah you know and then more feels like the movie just had to have an ending that was sad it's and then i just wanted more because i think part of and i understand we're telling wilson not to do like the whole not to to lead up to the to the suicide not to have don't play but yeah over your head

[01:57:07] yeah i think i needed and and also to be fair like you know i mean i went to nway did you remember you too i didn't i dropped out of cal arts okay beautiful yeah um went on with you and like when i was there someone killed themselves in boops in the library because you could oh before you could jump over them into the lobby kind of infamous yeah yeah and several people had done that and yes you know and you know so of course people no but the way people talked about them was like was like oh they seemed like i'd never expected but i think in the context of a film obviously the point is

[01:57:37] emotional legibility unless you're making head a gobbler um um and and it's like if you're making you know someone's gonna fucking do something everyone needs to die but um but uh you know i i just felt like it didn't the math wasn't completely mathing yeah for me i think yeah i in re-watching it thought i was going to reject it feeling like too much of a push right narratively it went down more smoothly i bought it

[01:58:06] more than i was expecting to yeah it's mostly because it's so well done again it's mostly because he makes the sequence kind of dreamlike right yeah and i think by giving it that space and making it largely wordless and making it feel kind of like weirdly magical right yeah there there is this sense of and and i think it's what you're talking about with like how many uh college suicides there are and even like at places like this at boarding schools like this yeah i think these places that are

[01:58:36] this like high pressure concentration of energy about your future we are preparing you for your future yeah we are trying to break you down to be able to accomplish great things yeah it's a very like combustible kind of potion yeah they're they're brewing of like you're making people think so much about the pressure of this moment as a fulcrum point as in a series of fulcrum points yeah to be able to

[01:59:06] unlock the future you want or not yeah and is it the future you want or is it the future you were told you need to pursue or whatever it is right and i think you do get young people under tremendous amount of pressure who just like break on a bad night yeah not it being the end result of years of suicidal ideation but this feeling of you know i think it is there is a narrative convenience to it well just it just just by a little bit

[01:59:35] but i think what it sells fairly well that i just buy enough is that like the high high and the low low so close together right yeah it's like messing with this moment teenage calibration exactly and his dad's like you're gonna go to here and that it's like a manic cycle of just like i have just found myself for one solitary moment i'm immediately told that door is closed it is impossible and in that moment it's you know what you hear about a lot with teen suicide is just like you wish you could tell them that like

[02:00:04] you will get past this right that this is like a bad night that this is not the rest of your life keating says well you're turn 18 you can do whatever you want totally and so and i think that was the one line for me where i was like oh because again like not like almost like forgetting what was coming like oh yeah he'll do that but he's fighting so hard you don't know my dad you don't understand you understand king's like no truly trust me trust me just say it yeah he'll see it and when he's been told that he wants to believe that he feels such a sense of euphoria from the performance

[02:00:33] and then his dad comes down right so fucking so that's the thing that makes sense totally in a way that's not even vindictive as much as just like this is fucking reality we can't afford this we don't have generational wealth you need to keep this up there are no other choices the house is too big for him to be going on like that place but i agree that's the thing that also is a little bit confusing for the dad's math where i'm like i because my dad's similar we haven't spoken in many years but um it it's like the logic is less about

[02:01:02] like it's all about his trauma exactly and his inability that's the whole thing and and i think the moment where he he talks his mom and his mom's like sorry you're just like oh like he he just really feels alone well kurt wood smith's like i had it rough and this is what i had to do to become successful and the proper way for me to parent you is to do that as well rather than being like i went through that to be able to give you a better more supportive life yeah

[02:01:30] right where you do have options and autonomy i also think it's such a good choice that like kurt wood smith has his like sort of like complete immediate breakdown at like my son my son my son yeah and then his wife comes in and is in absolute denial at it and he starts yelling at her yeah right he lashes out at her and inger he shows genuine vulnerability but it's a very very honest moment exactly there's genuine vulnerability and guilt when he sees his son's body and then when his wife comes in and starts

[02:01:59] reacting emotionally he's stop it stop it yeah like it's that guy it's control he's like he does not have the emotional freedom to be able to really help any of the people in his life even at his absolute lowest moment yeah i love the the way because i you know you always think with like suicide scenes like okay then he finds a gun then gonna be boom you hear the gunshot and the fact that there's no gunshot instead of just the dad waking up oh my another excellent yeah i mean and then he and then he walks around that's what weird knows just to

[02:02:29] pull back yep like you know and that's why this movie works yeah i agree um are you coming around too i look this is i gave it three stars on letterbox it's how and that was the rating i had it like i was just like this is a movie that totally works for me i think it kind of undeniably works david yes you look like a man who doesn't know that fast growing

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[02:04:55] valid for a limited time terms and conditions may apply okay can we have a letterbox moment please okay so I don't want to say this we can always cut it out okay I have a secret letterbox hell yeah um I just started it because Max was like you need to do it it's at I'm not telling anyone I'm not letting any of my friends know because then people might find clues and you know

[02:05:24] stressful um but I have experience where I rated a film two stars but then I also put like it yeah sure have you done this I think that is I think that is a very uh like good way to think about letterbox because people get very tied up on letterbox yeah well what should my rating scale be or do I just not do ratings and I just do hearts and I'm like two stars and a like that's a kind of movie that like I have in my you know what I mean Deep Blue Sea is probably a two star in a life movie Deep Blue Sea is a perfect example

[02:05:53] our friend Ben David I cannot defend a second of that movie our friend Ben David Grubinski he goes five stars or nothing oh well I basically do that I now only give a star rating if it's five or if I really think a thing's stinky poo poo and I want to make a statement with a one and that's usually I'm like this movie is like cynical like end of culture bullshit yeah yeah yeah um but I used to do more star ratings now I'm just like I give it five stars if I'm like I'm officially ready to say I think this is a perfect masterpiece

[02:06:22] uh officially what the fuck am I talking about but otherwise it's a it's a binary like heart or no heart sure sure and I'm just like and it used to be like heart means I love it now I'm like heart means I like it yeah yeah if I'm like positive positive yeah yeah I think we have to step I think especially with like review aggregators which are so upsetting it I just feel like ratings mean less and less like reviews are so much more interesting than like yeah I don't give grades as a critic because the Atlantic

[02:06:51] doesn't do that yeah I worked somewhere else like did that I guess but the people don't really do that much anymore yeah no because it's a bit weird to be like to I love my litter box star ratings yeah and I love how mad they make people not famous people or important people yeah but weird nerds who are like well he gave three stars to this and then you know I also see that he reviewed it again went down half a starless and it can't be as mad as David Ehrlich's reviews makes people because that is the fuck like he cracks me up you know what's

[02:07:20] so funny is that people get so mad and they're like this guy fucking sucks his opinions suck and then when he swings in and is like one battle after another five stars people are like we're cooking yeah so back yeah likes it like ham that yeah but he likes the movie you're excited about yeah suddenly if he doesn't like it means the weird thing that they'll do with him is they're like well he didn't like it that means I'll like it yeah immediate like another movie right yeah I have a reviewer that's like that for me where I'm like I love the reviews

[02:07:49] but I name name can you bleep it yeah of course oh yeah he's the best example yeah I love his reviews but like great writer he rated um bleep this movie as well really highly and I was like that's one of the worst films I've seen and I would say that well I can't talk about this yeah but here's like a very specific example to you right I'd never seen the Annabelle movies mm-hmm I'm like I should fucking watch the Annabelle movies yeah

[02:08:19] the first Annabelle movie I saw you logging it the first one is absolute dog shit it is astonishing how bad it is right then the second one is like one of the best like that's one set in the past right it's it's very good the one with Anthony LaPolla right and I was just sort of like oh this one's like resetting the table and just ignoring the first one and then the last 20 minutes it finds a way to tie back into everything that was bad in the first one but make it good retroactively it's a very solid movie and I was like holy shit heart is that the best kind of surprise when you it's like when I watched The Conjuring for the first time I was like you know who

[02:08:48] rules yeah good director so I watch I watch that Annabelle creation creation yeah then I go see your movie head up right and then I'm like yeah loved it heart and then I go home and I'm like time for Annabelle to come home and I'm like yeah pretty good looking at it and I'm like does this look weirdly is that about I don't think I've seen her come home me either I think it's quite good oh I'm gonna watch that but I'm like if you were like two junky horror sequels that I'm giving hearts and a sandwich

[02:09:18] around a movie that are friend made right am I like being rude to Hedda or devaluing that or whatever I'm just like I'll share space with Annabelle my answer is I watched three Annabelle movies I know have a sliding scale of Annabelle movies and I'm like two of these are good at the assignment of make an Annabelle and because the first one is so bad I'm like giving the other two positive reviews also Annabelle and Hedda are both two women who are in a world that has boxed them in Annabelle is literally in a doll sitting in chairs causing chaos sitting in chairs in beautiful dresses causing chaos

[02:09:47] causing chaos I get it the real Annabelle is just a fucking raggedy do you know that's the real Annabelle yeah for sure and then did you see the guy who died yeah and then they were like we found out the cause of death cardiac event and I'm like fucking Annabelle event is what that was cotton in his mouth exactly I should have been touching that doll fucking stitched up dude the whole thing and Matt Reif bought the doll Matt Reif bought the fucking Warren house Matt Reif owns Annabelle I hope Annabelle you know he's too powerful if he can afford that he's giving tours

[02:10:16] of the fucking Annabelle house anyway I think both of the Annabelle sequels are good fair enough yeah I haven't seen Annabelle come home and I haven't seen the curse of La Garola I'm halfway through that I watched that on a plane once I always mess up the pronunciation here's what Annabelle comes home does that is smart here's what Annabelle comes home does that is smart he says as we get ready to wrap up on Dead Poets Patrick Wilson and Vera Finiga are back in it as the Warrens but they're only at the beginning and the end and the movie is basically

[02:10:45] their young daughter who's McKenna Grace it's her birthday and they're like oh but we got called in to do some demonic thing we're sorry we're missing your birthday we have a babysitter who's gonna watch you and teen girl watching McKenna Grace who's starting to get the feelings and is like struggling with being seen as like the creepy girl right invites her friend over to help babysit with her and her friend is like oh the house with all the creepy shit and she starts fucking with stuff and then the movie is basically

[02:11:15] like a haunted house movie set in the Warren house when they're not there and then we get Vera sometimes being like something's happening very beginning very end the superstructure of the movie is basically what if two teenagers are stuck in the Warren house without them there and they're like what's this bowling ball and they're like no that bowling ball killed eight people in Delaware because the problem with Annabelle is Annabelle doesn't come to life she doesn't move she sits in a chair and then bad shit happens it's crazy they made three Annabelle movies so they clearly knew there was not

[02:11:45] a third movie worth of Annabelle shit so they were like put her back in the house and then everything in the house can go wrong yeah it's smart I guess I haven't seen The Nun 2 The Nuns are my next I'd never watched any of the spinoffs I was a main one guy The Conjuring nothing has met The Conjuring I agree where it is The Conjuring to me is like one of the best horror films that have come out it's so good I wish Juan had come back and done three he's so good he's so good you mean done three or done four well both

[02:12:14] but it felt like they didn't make three for so long and started making all the spinoffs because they were like he's really busy and he wants to come back eventually and then it was like he's never coming back is it because he was doing Aquaman he did Aquaman and he did Malignant I mean I love that he did Malignant Malignant rocks I yeah I had so many emotions watching that film I love that movie that picture yeah so he carpe diem he ripped the pages out what are some other moments that we like I like when they

[02:12:44] they kick the ball and they have to quote lines of poetry I think that's really fun I like the yop scene where they're the camera spinning around them and I was like it's such a great way to just like the energy of it's so good I love when Ethan Hawke has to say one sentence and that's its entire plot someone said to me before I started watching it they were like yeah it's interesting because basically Ethan Hawke's the lead of the film and I watch it and I was like he's not he's not less than Robin yeah he's important he's offline

[02:13:14] he's kind of the passive POV character in a weird way it's crucial that at the end he's the one saying to him like they made us sign that like you know he's like the silent observer who you're just kind of pinning throughout the whole movie and then he doesn't really come alive until the end what kind of like reference do you think Keating's getting out the door for his next next yeah he's going back to England where they don't have internet so they don't know I know we made jokes but can we talk about the Josh Charles thing a little bit because as you said each of the kids has like a thing they need to self-actualize

[02:13:44] it like really does not play well today I'm not even saying this with like modern like you know politics you're just like it is kind of just like such a creepy movie construction it is also what our friend Chris Gethard calls an ultimate but I like her plot Alexandra Powers is the actress yes who's very pretty and has become a Scientologist oh is that right her Wikipedia is just like and then in 2010 she figured it out by becoming a Scientologist I did see this yes it has a section of like and then everything got figured out

[02:14:14] listen life's hard man you gotta sometimes you gotta just you gotta carpet the deal something to help you shoulder the weight of the meaningless universe but Gethard's point was basically for decades many many movies could get away with if a nice boy cares really deeply his crush is very genuine right he's not threatening Josh Charles but I like her you just stay with it until she finally gives in yeah and is like rewarded for it so upsetting and then the story just kind of drops look I think he's good in this

[02:14:43] and he's sweet and he's charming and you're like the behavior is so bizarre he's selling it in a way where you're like not you're almost falling for it but she like answers a door and he's like that is the love of my life and people are like okay can't go off yeah and then he's just like truly I'm not giving up on this and they're like she's got a boyfriend she's setting boundaries she said no thank you she said don't come to my school and she's like yeah she said no thank you for now exactly you know what this character in SWAT was called what

[02:15:13] TJ McCabe cool that's great high school parties are they have that specific thing where people make out just publicly in front of everyone sure and that only kind of I feel like lasts for a little by college it's like get a room yeah exactly it is just so funny to me that the construction of these types of plot lines is so often oh sweet sensitive nice boys self insert for screenwriter has crush on beautiful unattainable girl who is dating like meathead yeah sort of like

[02:15:42] emotionally unbalanced jock right is this something that is common in life of the in the time period it's just like that's so many stories I think it is the way that a certain type of person who is very prone to becoming a screenwriter likes to reframe their experiences of not being liked yes she's trapped by that hot guy or make the kind of revisionist history of like and this is how I wish it had turned out yeah but it is always kind of hinging on this moment of the guy lashes out

[02:16:12] and beats the shit out of the nice boy and that's the moment that makes her wake up from his spell right and then has to sort of like Florence Nightingale tend to him and be like he's so awful I can't believe it and see it because no one in movies can ever put a bandaid on by themselves right it is so crazy that the version of that that happens in this movie is a moment where Josh Charles is empirically in the wrong yeah that the thing that makes the guy punch him in the face is actually valid she's passed out on a couch and he's stroking her face so scary and kissing her forehead

[02:16:41] where I'm like even if I there was no background if this is their first time seeing this guy it'd be like who the fuck are you throw him in the snow because she's also like yuck yes she wakes up and is freaked out and he's just like but but but I like you what if you come see a play with me yeah exactly and she's like I guess I'm gonna see the play you're like it's very but no one has really significant Nwanda again my baby girl love love Nwanda he's the one who I'm most impressed by and then he disappears

[02:17:11] because he gets it's interesting because he's right he's the defiant one who's like we gotta do all this and we gotta have depot society and all that that that Robin moment is good too when he comes back in he's like expecting to get like applause oh yeah and he's just like no dumb dumb don't get kicked out like then all of this was for nothing exactly use your privilege Nwanda's the one who gets his name's Charlie I'm sorry is the one who gets paddled and I do think the paddling scene is good because it's so

[02:17:41] ineffectual and yet also horrible like it's like on the one hand this kid's getting beaten by his teacher institutional the other hand it's just so weird it's just like this grown kid like across the knees of an old man who's got this like it's just also watching him to see how painful it is just like but I also think it's good character construction for Keating that he's just like no I'm not telling you to just like fuck everything up like I still want you to learn shit if you get kicked out of this school no one's benefiting

[02:18:10] and I'll get fired you know and it's the part of him that you could see so quickly blaming himself at least partially for the suicide yeah because it's like I'm trying to push them just up to the line without breaking them yeah look the end is look after my captain it pays out like a slob I teared up yeah couldn't believe it it is just incredibly effective thank you boys so good well Whitman the best Mr. Whitman of course Captain My Captain

[02:18:40] is actually about Abraham Lincoln as as Keating says in the movie I have that in the Marvel movie that I made Oh Captain My Captain I forgot wait unless they cut it but did you not go to no I does Ms. Marvel say that to Captain Marvel yeah she's like she's like zooming around like killing all these Kree in these ships and then she goes oh Captain My Captain and then we whip pan over to Monica and she's like are you good girl like you're crazy that's fine yeah it was funny

[02:19:09] but we had a whole anyway you had a scene where all the all the Kree got up on her chair I was the joke I was gonna let the Kree get on their desk I stole the bit from the bit boy they get on their desk yeah have fun with that bit thank you so much it's yours that's your take home people forget this film won best picture at the British the Baptist yeah it also won best foreign film at the Caesars and the Italian I forget what it's called Davide Donatello yes like this was kind of the most respected

[02:19:38] American film in Europe do you think it's because of the suicide partially yeah come on I think it's also because it's like a movie about like the power of poetry it's a very romantic film about culture did it lose best picture too what year was this 1989 so this is the year after Rain Man it loses best picture to Dances with Wolves nope that's the year after fuck

[02:20:08] oh that was my guess what's the thing in between it's not the most memorable best picture winner it's uh oh hmm hmm it is you've watched them all I have not to date it is the worst best picture winner I have seen oh it's not even close to the worst I have seen it's not a very good try Miss Daisy oh um yes it felt like I was confounded by watching it for the first time last year hmm really I just think that movie is nothing it's not much it's not nothing it's fine I think it's nothing

[02:20:38] I was expected to be more like outraged by it while also being like oh but it's like a manipulative it kind of works and I was just like this movie's like just a it just feels so slight to me it's pretty slight um it's a stage play my crazy take Green Book is better than driving Miss Daisy I have Green Book one above driving Miss Daisy on the best picture list that is so crazy yeah no driving Miss Daisy is not very good uh it's the year that Born on the 4th of July is sort of the frontrunner

[02:21:08] and wins best director and then driving Miss Daisy I guess it's a little movie that could for whatever reason but it's also obviously forever the year that is defined by not nominating Do the Right Thing Do the Right Thing is obviously resigned to supporting actor and screenplay but it's also it's like three of the other nominees are my left foot inspirational true story drama Dead Poets Society inspirational quasi true story drama and then Field of Dreams made up inspirational wait Field of Dreams yes is an Oscar novel

[02:21:38] don't you come in my house and come at Field of Dreams Field of Dreams after defending Dead Poets Society which is treacle you know you know what it is I think I saw that movie at a time where a lot of those baseball men in cornfield movies were out yes or at least the collection exactly sure and so they all sort of are the same in my head because I've not seen them since the 90s Field of Dreams is is it amazing it's pretty it's one of those movies that you're just like

[02:22:07] this should not work it's like Bull Durham I'm kidding I love Bull Durham is the flip side which is like baseball is fucking horny and we're all just here Bull Durham's just like straight up the best movie Field of Dreams is just like I miss my dad I think I need to build a cornfield to summon the ghosts of the Chicago Black Sox that's what I thought Field of Dreams is the best Field of Dreams is like Ratatouille where if you like lay out the plot you're like are you insane what do you mean that's your idea it's about like the sort of the boomer

[02:22:37] dream like coming you know where the boomers are like what what I'm a grown up now what the fuck you know we're forgetting another inspiring film of course Major League 1 and 2 very inspiring let's go win this fucking thing I love I love the 1 and 2 of it all you learn let's have some fun play baseball those are great movies Williams loses to Daniel Day-Lewis Williams loses to Daniel Day-Lewis supporting there's no nominees for supporting I know but I'm saying I love rewatching the fucking Siskel Niebuhr

[02:23:06] Oscar specials and it's a big thing that whole season where they're just like and by the way it is insane category fraud that Robin Williams is in they were just banging that drum who won best supporting that year Denzel Washington won best supporting actor for glory okay so he wasn't going to beat Denzel actually wait who was it oh Robin I want to do the mental exercise you've also got Martin Lando and Crimes and Misdemeanors which is an incredible it wouldn't have mattered and Danny and Danny and Do the Right Thing just wanted to do the mental exercise no

[02:23:35] it is a lead performance in that same way as Hannibal Lecter energetically it is spiritually in the entire movie he is the focus of the movie in this weird way it's like it's not a supporting performance it's nonsense I think it's a performance I think Lecter I agree with you Lecter being a lead who would be the lead of the movie Robert Sean Larnon in my opinion no David made the stinky poo poo no and Brenda Fricker won best supporting actress for my left foot which is a lovely performance and she's a wonderful actor

[02:24:05] and Tandy wins actress it's an odd you know and Jessica Tandy of course wins best actress um and this Dead Poets Society filled with ladies in lead roles no I mean there was but Dead Poets Society does win best writing screenplay written directly for the screen over take a listen to this okay so listen to who is do the right thing it beats listen to me listen to me crimes and misdemeanors Woody Allen yeah say what you will one of his best perhaps his best do the right thing

[02:24:34] by Spike Lee sex lies and videotape by Steven Soderbergh and when Harry met Sally by Nora Ephron it is by far the worst I agree not even close it's a piece of shit I get your ire at the screenplay eat his fucking bananas any of those wins would be great any of those wins I mean Woody Allen would be kind of like he has enough Oscars fuck that but I mean Spike Lee Steven Soderbergh it's crazy that is crazy and obviously that's the thing I think at the time it's sort of like oh well they're all

[02:25:04] up and coming but guess who else was up and coming the fucking eight heads in a duffel bag I know it's like up and came to nothing it ends up being like right okay easy easy the anointment is almost like a death sentence for Shulman whereas everyone else I mean obviously he had a he had a totally solid Hollywood career but it's just nuts to look at that list and you're just like what that is crazy and it is 89 Oscars is the most like ghastly Oscars because they're like no I think I feel

[02:25:34] the drive of this you know like they're watching cinema change around them and they're like no no no no let me hold this close who directed Brian McStasey of course Bruce Beresford and it was infamously at the time one of the only examples of a movie winning best picture without a best director nomination Bruce Beresford which speaks to the like even the attitude of that movie at the time yeah it's sort of like he was a good director Breaker Marant's a great movie Tender Mercies is an amazing movie Crimes of the Heart is alright I like his pre Driving Miss Daisy exactly

[02:26:03] and then he kind of became more of like a Hollywood hack in the 90s Mr. Church is like one of the worst things I've ever seen Double Jeopardy he directed not bad oh my god is that one of the Ashley Judds Double Jeopardy love the Ashley Judds of the 90s if you were Ashley Judd in the 90s your husband was always trying to kill you yeah girl good luck you're the star of the movie but you better on a swivel this film came out June 9th 1989 in middle of the summer

[02:26:32] somewhat limited release 600 screens so it's opening at number 3 7.5 million dollars which is amazing per screen average 680 screens wow and it ends up at like 101 it made domestically come on the numbers 95 and worldwide 239 it was I think worldwide it was the fifth biggest movie of the year yeah crazy and it is crazy that it came out in summer because this is like the most fall wintery movie but it ran and ran the true dominancy

[02:27:00] of 90s Robin Williams is you have these like huge hits that are like of course that's what Robin Williams does like Aladdin and like Doubtfire and Birdcage is Jack Black the heir to Robin Williams right now it's a fair in the sense of like I mean I watched a Minecraft movie on the plane and I feel like I ran on the thing that you hate that movie so much with a deep passion or did you like it what I did not like it I kind of enjoyed that movie I found it very loud it was great for the plane yeah

[02:27:30] the plane was louder so I also I think Jack Black is one of those guys where it's like even the sort of silliest nothing he's he really we have been talking about this I love that yeah Minecraft does feel like the moment where you're like it is undeniable he is the greatest family comedy star of all time yeah he certainly is the most dominant of all time very bankable family comedy star where you're basically like from the school of rock but Robin Williams is a good comp in terms of that kind of like family live action star who made tons of money I guess he doesn't have the drama

[02:27:59] not as much he's done some right I think what happened with Jack Black is obviously like cool edgy comedy guy right makes perfect sense right and then he's like does some things like Margot at the wedding where he's like trying to stretch himself the holiday no but it's like right those things don't go over well at the time his adult comedy start bombing and he's like I guess the only zone I play in is like

[02:28:29] family comedy star so he like doubles down on that while doing his YouTube videos and tenacious D he does YouTube video? Jables I don't I don't do the YouTube but yes he like just really was like as a movie actor my career is family comedies and I'm gonna embrace this and he never fucking phones it in and if you zoom out you're just like the guy's basically untouched for like a 25 year run and he means like as much to my little like six year old cousin as he did to like

[02:28:58] my sister when she was six and to me and whatever whereas Robin Williams it's like by the time you get to the 2000s the family movies don't work anymore the 90s were his sweet spot for that I would like to see Jack Black be able to like find his Dead Poets Society Good Will Hunting The School of Rock is his Dead Poets Society but like maybe an even more dramatic version of it but the way we were talking with Robin Williams that he found these movies that weren't like playing against his comedy but they recontextualized

[02:29:28] it and like pulled he needs like a Peter Weir or someone to pull the thing out of him I have to tell you that maybe it's you Disney was freaked out about the title and they almost called the movie The Unforgettable Mr. Keating well fuck that so hard and they also registered Keating's Way which is even nobody's gonna want to see that that's horrifying Cutter's Way was pretty recent yeah that's true but Weir was like this is an accessible movie like they're freaking out about nothing and it

[02:29:58] starts to test and they got like insane scores and they essentially were like oh shit you know so they moved it right to the middle of summer it is one of those movies where the ending is so fucking strong that people are going to be coming out of the theater pumping their fucking fists and this is an era where like word of mouth could really make a movie a hit over a sustained period of time I thought Ben was gonna punch you again he's getting me a sour patch kid the screenplay Oscar win it's just like it does feel like this movie was so huge they had to give it something

[02:30:27] I think a little bit but I also yeah I think all the other movies we listed were challenging and this is not as challenging a movie now number one at the box-ups though June 9th 1989 now wait what's going on apparently it opened on eight screens the week before which is not even listed on the numbers do you want to do that one we've done the October let's do the eight not the same movies number one June 9th one is by the way Star Trek 5 The Final Frontier got it that's why we've done it so the week before June 2nd

[02:30:56] let's do this number one at the box office is a big sequel that we've covered on this podcast a great movie in 1989 it's a great film says David lots of fun lots of fun been out for two weeks it's made 77 million dollars it's not Die Hard 2 nope I don't like that movie I know that's why I'm surprised but it's not that I'm surprised at the version of you I created in my mind it's a huge huge franchise is it a two three it's a three

[02:31:26] and for a long time it was the last but they made two cents is it the um Beverly Hills cop person is that we covered it on main feed or patreon main feed we covered it on main feed and we cover all of them it's not we've covered four oh it's fuck I was gonna guess we have not covered the fifth I was gonna guess it's beyond Thunderdome but now I there's been one since it's made 77 million dollars in two weeks it's a huge hit there's been one since that

[02:31:56] we haven't covered yeah is that what you're telling me the most recent one we have not covered the fifth is it Ghostbusters 2 no you wouldn't call that a great film it's a third it's an 89 film it's a third come on you're gonna be so mad is it like a is it one of my franchises you love this movie this is your favorite of this franchise oh wow this is favorite of a franchise it's a three and then there was a big gap and we did four but we didn't do five and are they all

[02:32:25] the same director no the first four that's why we've done those four what the fuck you're gonna be so mad at yourself is it like based around a character yeah fuck wow what is it it's not die hard it's not Mad Max it's not like and it's it's the fucking oh my god everyone's screaming at us yeah absolutely it's crazy I'm gonna hang it up it's a big ass hit yeah

[02:32:54] probably the biggest movie in the 19th oh god what is it it's Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade wow Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade yeah everyone's right to be angry at me for that one especially the clue of like director did four but not the fifth I know I know I know number two at the box office is new this week okay it is a an action film starring a sort of a sports entertainer I would call him is it a wrestler yes and he recently

[02:33:23] left this mortal coil is it suburban commander it is not that but I have the right actor I believe I believe that is a Hulk Hogan film is it no holds bar it is no that was his real debut star correct no ring no ref no rules obviously his debut is what Rocky 3 but this is a wrestling movie in which he is the lead fighting Zeus tiny listener yeah I've never seen it I have no idea if it's good but I'm gonna guess we just let people do whatever they wanted then didn't we we used to be a proper

[02:33:53] country but what I like is back then we used to let Hulk Hogan do whatever he wanted no but it'll be like oh Hulk Hogan you wanna be in a movie your movie will cost like 8 million dollars like it's not gonna be a big movie sure you know it'll be a cheap little action movie basically yeah and you'll be playing a wrestler I mean you know it's a version of this that I like that like the first nobody made like 30 million dollars totally and they were like make a nobody too who gives a shit it doesn't need to make 100 million dollars that's my favorite thing it's cheap and you wanna show up yeah we can keep these play on Netflix right there needs to be

[02:34:23] different scales of success a thousand percent number three is a comedy it's not in my opinion we've covered it I think we've talked we've never covered it but we've talked about this one before we've discussed it I think it's not good I've not seen it in a franchise no but it's it's a star duo that made four films together this is their third so it's a Pryor Wilder it is Richard Pryor Ben's beloved see no evil hear no evil it is yeah a movie that which is the one aging where is it Gene Wilder is deaf

[02:34:52] and Richard Pryor is blind blind correct yes and they witness a murder and they each only can attest a part of it is it the other way around I think it's the other way around didn't they not really get along but they knew that they were great together but they didn't not get along they were just like yeah we had like no personal relationship yeah yeah Gene Wilder was like one time we went and saw movie together and we didn't have we like went out to dinner and didn't have anything to talk about but we had good chemistry what was the fourth obviously Silver Street can stir crazy what's the fourth

[02:35:21] the fourth one is another you which is the true disaster Pryor is already really sick Bogdanovich was fired off of it halfway through filming oh Jesus yeah anyway so that's number three number four is a film I brought up and I was yelling at Nia about recently like ten minutes ago it was nominated for Best Picture it's one of the most I can't wait to watch it again it does roll number five is also new this week okay

[02:35:49] and it is not a movie I'm that familiar with it's an you know action movie with a couple members of I guess they were called the Brat Pack an action movie mmhmm it's an action it's a Brat Pack action movie that feels so scary it's not Wisdom is it no it is not I don't even know what that is yeah good poll Wisdom is oh good to run Paul very nice okay so it's got two Brat Packers in it yeah it's not trying to be good is it nope

[02:36:19] action I don't know if you're gonna know this movie I've never heard of it can you give me the Packers Kiefer Sutherland okay and Lou Diamond Phillips oh and the tagline feels like they could have maybe worked harder this one is the boys are back in town it's not it's not Young Guns 2 it is not because that one's got like eight Brat Packers I know that is a movie about boys being back though we are back in town Young Guns yeah I don't know if I know what this is this film is called Renegades yeah can't tell you that I know anything else about it

[02:36:49] I'm sure like ten people will text us and be like I can't believe you guys haven't seen Renegades Jack Shoulder directed it who's the guy who made that movie The Hidden which is a movie I like a lot yeah and he made Nightmare 2 the gay one yeah so he's got cool movies but I've never heard of this one really but it looks like they've got guns and the boys are back in town can I make my joke please it was written by Jack and he is produced by Jack Toes bit boy bit boy number six of the box office is the eternal cult legend

[02:37:19] hit Roadhouse sure number seven is the film that I've always described as what if Clint Eastwood played Gene Parmesan Pink Cadillac where he's like I'm an investigator I'm a master of disguise and his disguise is like I'm a yellow hat guy puts on a hat no one will see me coming pretty fun movie I'm holding a finger under my nose like it's a mustache number nine is Ben what did you think of this movie K9 that's Belushi and the dog

[02:37:48] I've never seen it it's Jim Belushi and the dog obviously I feel like didn't it come up with the Patrick Willems yes he did his there's also K9 versus well no it's the Turner and Hooch Turner and Hooch and K9 are the same year the two dog cop partner buddy movies wait guys sorry I just realized I looked at my notes but I just wanted to make sure I showed you this picture of Nwanda and Wilson oh my goodness it's from the fashion why didn't they make out they could have made out they're so cool

[02:38:17] I'm doing that oh my god I'm doing that video podcast thing oh terrible what thing where you just like look at this thing on my phone oh sure and I can't describe that oh right right no one can see it I love you're like you're in front of me I can see it that's the mystery though put on your whatever I'll put it on blankies yeah put it on those number nine of the box office is the Pet Sematary movie which is a good movie the first one yes yeah not the one that was released recently which is in Clark Mary Lambert yeah that's a good Mary fun movie my favorite

[02:38:46] Stephen King book and then number 10 Ben we hit movies guys Major League nice and number 11 just to shout it out is Rain Man which is still fucking hanging out six months later yeah I just like that you were like ugh I did the video podcast thing that no one can see I just then remembered Ben is wearing a full schoolboy uniform sure is the amount of energy Ben puts into visual bits I was like Ben you look so fancy and he was like yeah Dead Poets Society are you meeting with your account master no it is because I sit across with Ben when I record

[02:39:16] with you guys and you're just always smiling and you're always just like present and you're something to be seen he's our beautiful boy maybe if you do video it's just Ben just Ben I like this that's good that's good that wouldn't infuriate people at all I love that Ben puts this much work Ben mostly like doing work you know checking things on the edit into bits for other people to describe on exactly that was so good it's theater of the minds I have to go pick up my daughter okay enjoy I have to say humble brag again enjoy your lunch

[02:39:45] Nia thank you for being here thank you so much for having me this is so fun I'm gonna say everyone should watch the Bone Temple and Hedda both of which have now been on VOD probably for months but really really loved Hedda thank you and excited to see Bone Temple which we will have seen and talked about in our Patreon at this point to watch Bone Temple and whatever you do next will be so exciting Hedda really rocked I watched I didn't get to see it in the theater I watched the screener

[02:40:14] but I had such a great time it really affected me where I realized I need to start playing more games with people in my life no you should no no no don't don't don't don't don't take lessons what no that was my takeaway no she's not well everyone has their own takeaway at the end of the film it's an ambiguous ending no thank you guys that means a lot you're asking questions I'm really I think I emailed you guys I was like I'm so proud of these two movies I'm so happy I'm very happy we're making movies that you can when we see you be like I'm excited yeah

[02:40:44] it's very exciting yeah I know it's nice in the arc of the time since we've done it cause you were like you were saying like at the beginning like every time you see me I've been like well like smoking a cigarette you vent all the stuff that we can't say on mic and then we're like yeah always a pleasure to have you on that thank you guys and thank you all for listening please remember to rate review and subscribe tune in next week for yeah great question Green Card is next is that right I think you're right but I'm just double checking you finally got to make Green Card

[02:41:13] because of the success of this yeah it was we'll get into it but it was a thing where schedule's set to wait or whatever but yes yeah next is the wonderful in my opinion film Green Card starring unproblematic fave you know it was the 90s yeah and as always carpe diem yeah rip

[02:41:43] oh oh oh I gotta do my my Robin vocal warm-ups oh oh oh oh okay terrible impression coming Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims our executive producer is me Ben Hosley our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon this show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy research by JJ Birch

[02:42:12] our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell artwork by Joe Bowen Ali Moss and Pat Reynolds our production assistant is Minnick special thanks to David Cho Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes follow us on social at blankcheckpod

[02:42:41] subscribe to our weekly newsletter checkbook on Substack this podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions and you