Decision to Leave with Tatiana Maslany

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check The moment you said you podcasted me, your podcast is over.

[00:00:26] The moment your podcast ends, my podcast begins. You're using it too many times! That's the right amount of times because I'm replacing the same word. Right. Love. Yes, correct. And what is a podcast but love expressed? Right, well what is more important than podcasts? Right. Love.

[00:00:43] Remember when everyone went crazy over that quote from WandaVision? What is grief but love persevering or whatever? Uh, yeah. Yeah. Well what is a podcast but love on mic? I thought people were... I think that was a pretty good line. I do too!

[00:00:56] I thought people kind of got too worked up about that. This is the problem with the internet. I'm just gonna hit the nail on the head. I'm gonna sum it up and the discourse is over. I'm gonna tell you what the problem with the internet is. Okay.

[00:01:06] Anything said too many times is annoying. Sure, right. That's it! You got it! That's it! Even if it's something you agree with or... We basically create a platform where every voice is at the exact same volume

[00:01:17] and the most correct point in the world becomes, dare I say it, cringe. Sure. The second is said for the thousandth... Thousandth. Thousandth. Thousandth. Time. Now everyone's going to say that I can't say the word thousandth. That's gonna be the thing that's annoying. That'll be the next cancellation.

[00:01:37] Yeah. Griffin can't say thousandth. Also cringe is annoying because people have said it too many times. People are sick of saying cringe. I saw someone tweet, what you can't type out embarrassing? Like why did we all say cringe now?

[00:01:47] I do think cringe is one of the cringiest things that people are saying online. I think any variation of calling something cringe makes me actually cringe. Me? Oh, I can? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cringe elicits the feeling that it's meant to. Right. It's over. But in the wrong direction.

[00:02:05] It's recursive. In almost the only way. Have you guys heard about the self-described cringe comedians? It's a movement on TikTok. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, like they exist only to make you cringe? Is this like Jake Novak reclaim the word kind of stuff? Wow. What a reference to make.

[00:02:24] It was the New York Times article recently. Okay. And it profiled three or four different cringe comedians and their whole thing is they're just doing like I'm an annoying person characters. Right. I can't imagine someone building their entire comedic persona around being annoying on purpose,

[00:02:43] kind of needling their co-hosts, saying bad jokes, repeating words that are overused. One of the people involved said she made like a half a million dollars. Wow. That's humblebrag. This year just through, you know, deals with brands. Their existence is annoying to me. Yeah.

[00:03:02] The fact that this movement exists. But they would be like, gotcha. No, but I'm cringing. It works for everybody. No, I'm not cringing. No, they'd be like, yes, you are. I'm tisking. You're tisking? I'm going, oh, brother. You're harrumphing? I'm not cringing.

[00:03:16] My body is still, my eyes are rolling. My feeling with cringing is that my skin lifts. That's the feeling for me. It tightens. It like, oh. Oh, your whole like. My skin like wants to leave my body. Right. Is the feeling. Oh, yeah, the tingles. Yeah. Yes, yes.

[00:03:35] You're like, no. I always describe it as making my teeth hurt. Yes. Which I think is one of your best phrases. Thanks. Yeah. Owns bones. Yeah, that's a good one. Makes your teeth hurt. Yeah. I was at a brunch recently.

[00:03:46] This fucking guy next to me ordered Sambuca with this espresso. And it's just like he clearly just learned about Sambuca and he's showing off. Does he want it in the espresso? That would be very odd.

[00:03:59] It's a whole thing where you get a Sambuca and they put like three espresso beans in. It's like, it's a thing that you would do out to dinner. But like this fucker is just like out on a date or something. Do you have Sambuca?

[00:04:13] And they were like, no. See, I don't know. Oh, yeah, because, yeah, it was just some random Brooklyn brunch place. Yeah. What? No, we don't have that. I can put champagne and orange juice for you. Do you want me to do that? Yeah, pretty much.

[00:04:24] This has basically become a new recurring segment. Ben's. Ben's dining complaints. Yes. Tatiana, we're not introducing you yet, but I want to just let you know that I'm directing this next statement towards you.

[00:04:40] Ben, at this point, it will have been several months ago, told a story on Mike about how he was duped into buying an overpriced steak at a restaurant that the waiter upsold him with an off menu item that he did not list the price for.

[00:04:58] And he said it was a better deal because the sides were included and the sides would basically pay for themselves. And then. It costs a lot more money than a regular option. It costs a tremendous amount of money. I can barely comprehend. What was the price? Bleeped.

[00:05:12] Okay, so we're going to bleep it again. We're going to bleep it again. On Friday night. No. Right before we were recording today. Right. This past Friday, some weeks after that episode came out, I went to a friend's birthday party.

[00:05:27] Two different people independently asked me, hey, I totally understand if you can't say it, but can you tell me what the bleeped amount of the steak is? I got maybe 20 text messages. I got a bunch of those as well. How much did the steak cost? Tell me.

[00:05:40] Tell me the number. The following night is Ben's actual birthday, birthday, Benny's birthday. We went to his birthday party. It's like a fun group of people. You know, you have a birthday party of friends and different social groups. Thank you for describing birthday parties. No, I'm saying.

[00:05:54] And Ben's partner, people are hanging out in different spaces in different configurations. Ben at one point walks into his living room, sits on a chair and starts relitigating the steak thing. I swear to you, like a magnet.

[00:06:07] Everyone follows in, sits down crisscross applesauce on the floor, pin drop silence. Half the room is waiting for him to drop the price and half the room doesn't know where the story's going.

[00:06:20] But Ben talked about it because when you did it on the podcast, it was like you were playing up a genuine frustration comedically. Right. When Ben told it at the birthday party, there was a thousand mile stairs if he was recounting his time in Vietnam. No one laughed.

[00:06:36] It was a harrowing story. I'm haunted by it. Truly. I can't sleep. You really, it seems to. I'm experiencing insomnia from this experience. It's getting worse as time goes on. I think you got to let it go. Well, no, I'm just. Oh, OK. OK, you're playing into it.

[00:06:51] Sorry. Sorry. I don't know how much he's playing into it. I'm mad about it. Furious about it. Very much so. He was so mad about it, he got his ear pierced. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Ben got his ear pierced. That's like a recent thing I did. Wow.

[00:07:02] It's close to stake, though. It does feel like an expression of. Yeah. It feels like a response, a trauma response a little bit. Yeah, that's true. Right. Right. Sometimes you just need to change yourself in order to work through something.

[00:07:10] To like recognize yourself again after you've gone through this. Yeah, you want to feel something. Right. Like poke a hole in me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And stuff is taken there. I'm feeling cringe because you're all looking and analyzing me. All right. Come on. Griffin, what's our podcast?

[00:07:22] Our podcast is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. David. It's a podcast. About filmographies, directors who have massive. This is the episode where I'm not going to say anything correctly. You almost said Saskatchewan. Where they have massive. You're from Saskatchewan. That's right.

[00:07:32] I think you were just. That's what I was doing. Feeling the vibes. I was doing that. It was on purpose and it was clever. Do you rep Saskatchewan? Like are you Saskatchewan proud? That's why I'm doing a black power salute.

[00:07:40] Well, I guess it's just general sort of solidarity. Yeah. Oh, for sure. That's why I'm doing a black power salute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, for sure. That's why I was sending it to you.

[00:07:58] Massive success early on in their careers. Enough success to buy the world's fanciest steaks. They're giving a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy. With two sides. Two sides included. You said the sides were garbage too.

[00:08:12] Yeah, it was just like watercress that was dressed in like a normal ass dressing. And. French fries, right? French fries. Oh boy. You can get those pretty cheap. Thin. Yeah. I think they're thick. If they're thin. They were thick. Okay. Yeah. They were good fries. I prefer thin.

[00:08:31] I think a thin is actually classier. Yes, I agree. I think it's classier, but if you pin this much. Thick is like, oh, you chopped a potato four times. Good job. You made a French fry. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Whereas we're talking more like shoestring level thin.

[00:08:43] I like that stuff. Especially with a steak. Yeah. Oh yeah. I think it's right with a steak. Because you soak up the juices. Yeah. But they only gave him five. It was five fries. Seriously. Yeah. I think it's like, you know, there's a series of blank checks.

[00:08:55] Make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Maybe this is a mini series on the films of Park Chan Wook. Today we're talking about, I was going to say his final film, but his most recent film.

[00:09:05] The final film in this mini series. Yeah. Which has been called I'm a Podcast, but that's okay. That's right. It's Decision to Leave. Decision to Leave is the most recent though. And our guest today, correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[00:09:16] Is this our first Emmy winner on the podcast? Tatiana, do you have an Emmy? I do. Congrats. We've been trying to collect an EGOT of guests. Oh, you wanted me for Riff and Black, didn't you? Yeah. That was awesome. I forgot about that. A proper Emmy.

[00:09:30] Don't think she won some. You were like, you were about to denigrate. Sometimes people will kind of sneak an Emmy. She didn't win a day. She was a primetime star. No, when you it was a huge triumph for genre television. It was such a great moment.

[00:09:42] I remember that. I'm just saying we're trying to collect our EGOT. Oh, is that what we're doing? Of guests. Okay. Yeah. So we've had two Tony Award winners. Wow. Cerberus. Who's the other one? Lynn. Lynn, sorry. You have like eight Tonys. Sorry. He might have an Emmy too.

[00:10:01] He might have snuck an Emmy. He does. That's what I'm talking about. I think he won a daytime Emmy for Wonder Pets, for writing songs for Wonder Pets, I believe. Oh, that's nice. It is nice. And he comes for Grammy too. Okay, geez.

[00:10:09] Well, now we're just kind of, you know. Bragging. Tatiana Maslany is here. Hi, hi, hi. Hi, hi, hi. Hi, hi, hi. Hi, hi, hi. Hi, hi, hi. Hi, hi, hi. I'm sorry I forgot about your Emmy winner. Oh, God. That was a big deal.

[00:10:21] I wish you would always reference it. That was a big deal. I've never experienced. It's a very important thing. You demand it. I do. You're one of the people. The most trite question. It's Emmy winner. But where do you put your Emmy? I'm one of those. Bathroom.

[00:10:33] No, it's like in my storage locker. That's fine. Wow. I'm not like a put things on the, I don't have that in me. I like to put toys on the shelf. I don't like to put awards on the shelf. We have a lot of toys.

[00:10:40] I don't like to put awards on the shelf. I don't like to put awards on the shelf. If I won a sports award, I would put that on the shelf. Because that would be really kind of like a thing. Like an Olympic medal. Yeah.

[00:10:47] If I snuck an Olympic medal. You snuck one of those. Just got really good at javelin for a minute there. Yeah. Or got awarded it for. I don't know. I've said this on the mic before, right? This is maybe potentially a five timer.

[00:10:55] There was a rumor I had heard that that was a five timer. I think it was a rumor. I don't know. I'm going to go with my gut feeling. I don't know. I'm going to go with my gut feeling. I don't know.

[00:11:02] I'm going to go with my gut feeling. I'm going to go with my gut feeling. I don't know. I've said this on the mic before, right? This is maybe potentially a five timer. There was a rumor I had heard that that was Cynthia Erivo's gold. What?

[00:11:10] You've said this on the mic before. Was to be the first EGOT winner with also an Olympic medal. Oh, I love that. That's awesome. Because she's very, very athletic. She is. Very good runner. Yeah. She's fit as hell.

[00:11:19] But you could pick up like a Geena Davis archery kind of thing. I remember when I was doing track and field because I was deeply unathletic. I would always pick the ones where you were most stationary. And I would always pick the ones where you were most stationary.

[00:11:23] And I would always pick the ones where you were most stationary. Shot put was a great way. The hammer. Shot put to gold medal to win. That's really cool. I was like three feet zero. I was like the first one. Oh, yeah. That's a great medal to win.

[00:11:42] Not to bring up that you're from Saskatchewan again. But you are from Saskatchewan. Did you skate? I was I didn't play hockey but I skated in hockey skates. I'm a good skater. Yeah. You did it with the Mt. Vernon thing. in hockey skates.

[00:11:53] I'm a good skater, I'm a good inline skater. Did you skate to school? Up a hill? Yeah, backwards. You know what I do? Rollerblade in LA, which seems like I could get an award for that. Well, we should add that to the Olympics and you should compete.

[00:12:11] Do the hills of Las Villas on rollerblades. That is wild. It's very dumb. It's not smart. No, no, I think it's smart and cool. Do you ever see other people? My experience, I walk more in LA than most people

[00:12:26] and it feels like people view me as if I am a ghost. Yeah, no, same. I remember walking in LA and people pull over and are like, are you okay? Right. Yeah, do you need help? Right. Are you gonna wash my windshield?

[00:12:40] Are you gonna walk away from a car crash and so you're some daze? That or which vegetables are you selling? It's like that's the response, yeah. Yeah, no, biking in LA too, which is another thing I do. Also, and I feel like anybody I see that's on bike,

[00:12:55] we nod to each other. We're like, hey, we're doing it. But this is what's weird about this and this is of course a mountain movie so we're actually making a really seamless intentional segue back into the ostensible subject of this episode. People love fucking hiking in LA.

[00:13:11] It's the number one thing they all like to do and then you talk about walking anywhere where people are, where places are. They go to a place to walk. And they act like you are demented. You gotta go hiking.

[00:13:23] You gotta go to this place and then we'll walk. You're not just gonna like walk to In-N-Out or whatever. Walk to the top, walk back. But if you're walking with intent to actually accomplish something, nope. Silly. Silly. I don't wanna start another New York LA beef

[00:13:37] on this podcast right now. They're different in a lot of ways. What? I've noticed a couple and if I can actually take out my notebook here. Do you like LA? Are you happy in LA? I do. You're not like tempted when you're here

[00:13:48] like oh, New York City, Big Apple, never sleep. It's a lot. It's a lot for my little system. You're doing a Broadway play right now. This is the second Broadway play you've done. And are these the two longest periods you've been

[00:14:03] in New York that you've lived in New York? Yeah, yeah for sure. When I did Network that was like a year. Yeah, right. That was like a crazy long run. It was a hit. People wanted to see that. It sold out every night because of Bryan Cranston.

[00:14:14] Bofo Beo. Yeah, that was the Cranbone effect. The Cranbone. And he calls it that and it's copyrighted. Yeah, yeah. It's that Cranbone effect. Knocks on your dressing room, check the box office. They said it's still Cranboning out of control. What is Cranbone?

[00:14:30] I don't think he knows this so I call him. It's one of the Cranbone. Yeah. You need it everyday, dap him up like hey Cranbone. Hey Cranbone. I do a lot of bad impressions on the show like on the spot for the opening

[00:14:41] you know when I butcher the quotes. There's like three impressions I have that are good and one of them is Bryan Cranston in Trumbo. Have you seen Trumbo? Yeah. I'm trying to write in the bathtub. How do you feel about that? I love it. Thank you.

[00:14:58] I love it. It also echoed like you were in a bathtub. You have to. You gotta project so far. Yeah, splish splash. So you're in town. You're not in you're in town. You're in a play called Grey House but you're in town in New York City

[00:15:14] and for a long time I wanted to get you on the podcast. Wow. And it thrown out a lot of things. You're someone who in a way I find endearing. Oh no. Every time we've had the conversation you've been very self conscious of like

[00:15:28] I don't know if I know enough to come on that one. Oh for sure and I feel similarly to today. No, you've come in with three pages of notes. Yeah. Double sided and sort of laid out in front of you. Yeah, just to reference.

[00:15:43] I did not color code them. Did you consider color coding? I did. I did. Because David and I would talk and he'd say like yes, you David Sims. Be like have you talked to Tatiana about possibly doing this show? I said yeah, she wants to do it

[00:15:57] because what movie does she want to do? And I said Tatiana's answer is usually assign me homework. Right, right. Here's the thing, I go out with you and Brendan. Your husband Brendan Hines. My husband Brendan Hines. He's a friend of the show, past and future guest.

[00:16:09] Yeah and the two of you. So handsome. They're so handsome. He's so handsome. And he's an absolute doofus too. Which is the best part. He's a silly Billy. He is a goofball. But the two of you talk about films in this way

[00:16:20] that I'm like this is a different language. These are references to things within the industry that I don't understand. And you guys get plot which I find very difficult. Oh you mean sort of just the general plot of a movie? I find plot really difficult.

[00:16:37] I'm here for vibes, I'm here for performance. I'm here for little moments that I'm like oh whoa. I don't know. Or I find plot which is why this movie is a little daunting to me. Yeah because this movie is incredibly plotty although I don't think it's that important.

[00:16:51] This is the thing with her book is it's like there's a lot of dense plotting but also it's so much more about vibes and emotion and character arcs. Right and you'll often present it out of order. Right. And then you're sort of like am I supposed

[00:17:04] to be keeping track of all these people? He likes the narrative puzzle, he likes the surprise but it's like that's not actually what it's about. Well interestingly too our detective, the plot, he sort of decides what the plot is.

[00:17:16] Like he in so many ways kind of erases the plot. Do you know what I mean? It goes for vibes himself. Makes a decision to leave. He does. What's your favorite movie though? Or what's a movie you throw on?

[00:17:28] I would throw on A Woman Under The Influence often. Yeah I've seen it probably 40 times. Oh. Maybe we should do Johnny's scene. We should. Hey Tatiana I want you to know before you start to give him credit for suggesting that I pushed it many times and David's response

[00:17:48] is always not my guy. He's not, no I like Castamedia he's more your guy. He is absolutely more my guy. I just say don't give David brownie points. I think that's a great idea. I push that up a hill. You're amazing David. I mean, I'd love it.

[00:18:04] We'll come on back for a run. I've seen that movie so many times. The one I feel like you told me after the fact we should have had you on for, although it was a great episode and a great guest, but that you're like no Nightmare Before Christmas

[00:18:15] backwards and forwards. I do, I do. Yeah I really, really do. Like I can quote it. There's a few movies that I've seen so many times that I can quote them. I assume that was sort of a seminal childhood film for you. It was, yeah. Yeah for sure.

[00:18:28] But even like There Will Be Blood is one that I've seen probably like 50 times. It's one that I'll like put on just to watch a scene and then I kind of get sucked in. But I knew there would be movies like that for you, right?

[00:18:39] If you're going for vibes or moments or whatever, right? Like movies where you're like let me put this on. Yeah. But I'll say this too. I think you are very self-effacing in underselling your ability to talk about film. Do you find it cringe? No, no, because no,

[00:18:56] I've had so many great conversations with you about movies. And I think, and look, this is a thing I've perhaps said about other guests before on the podcast. But I think you are one of the few actors I know who I think can really talk about acting intelligently

[00:19:14] and unpretentiously in a way I find interesting and engaging. And I've said that about other actors who have been guests on the show. But the reason is those are the only actors I want on the show. There are a lot of actors I know

[00:19:28] who I find don't really like movies. Sure. And cannot talk about acting at all. It's tough to talk about it. It's a tough thing to talk about. Like if I ever interview actors, I have no idea what to ask them. And I think they often are like,

[00:19:40] I don't really know what you want me to tell. Yeah. About like however this works or whatever. How I pick this stuff. It's a little elusive for sure. Well, I think, no, sorry, what were you gonna say? No, but I was gonna say like even,

[00:19:51] Brendan and I were talking about it, like watching this film with subtitles also like changes the way that you do watch performance in a way. And I felt like seeing it, cause I've seen it now twice. In the first time, I mean,

[00:20:05] I was still struck by the performances, by how, especially our lead dude, just like his beautiful, like intense focus on her, just how he sees her. You can feel it in a way that's so visceral. But also in this way, and perhaps it's in the dossier of research

[00:20:25] that JJ pulled up. Oh, I should pull that up. But watching it this time in particular, I was really wondering how much. Good movie to see twice. Yeah, absolutely. The first time is very overwhelming in terms of you're like, how much should I be following the narrative here?

[00:20:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead. No, I think the whole thing that's so fascinating about Tang Wei's performance in this movie is that it is playing with that, where it's like when you watch a foreign language film, whatever your native language is, any film that is not in that,

[00:20:54] where you're watching a performance with subtitles in a language you do not understand, how are you judging that performance? And I think in a certain way, it's like, well, that really shows you what acting is. It's not about just like line delivery on a surface level, right?

[00:21:11] It's so much of an energy. It's such a visual thing, especially in filmmaking and like connection points and whatever. And you can kind of hear the inflections and the emotionality of a line without understanding the words that are being said.

[00:21:23] But this is like a movie that is about that because for half of the movie, the lead character cannot really speak directly to the female lead character. Either she is translating herself in real time, they're communicating over text message, you know?

[00:21:39] Like he's processing her trying to suss out whether she's for real or not in the way that we kind of view a performance in a foreign language. Sure. Totally. And is she giving a performance, right? How much, yeah, is she playing him? Right. And is that like,

[00:21:54] is him not understanding what she's saying obfuscating it? Is her writing the written word rather than looking him in the eye obfuscating something? You know? All that sort of stuff. Yeah, I was reading about the subtitle translator and it was really interesting because the lines are so precise

[00:22:13] but they don't translate directly. So the line about where she's like Google translating basically the thing about bring me the heart of that kind detective or bring me the head of that kind detective. It's actually in the original script it's supposed to be the heart.

[00:22:31] Physical is what he hears but the metaphorical heart is what she means but we don't have two words for that. Right, right. So it had to be like something more intense like his head to be impactful enough. Or even like the later scene with the second husband

[00:22:51] where he's sort of drunkenly texting on the bridge and it's filled with typos. You're like how do you as a translator translate typos? Right. You know? What's the right letter to drop? What's the right misspelling? There's a lot of, yeah.

[00:23:05] I mean this is a movie about a translation it means a communication. Communication gulfs. Honestly, yeah. Right? It's also just a sort of simmering noir sort of a throwback I feel like we don't get movies like this enough anymore. Genuinely sexy movie without being even like

[00:23:26] particularly lurid but it's just so hot. Yeah. And I remember last year that being kind of a narrative of like you know movies aren't hot anymore, right? Like this is a movie with like real tension, sexual tension. Yeah.

[00:23:39] While having fewer sex scenes than a lot of his films. Movies are often more lurid. And the sex scenes aren't the sexy parts of this movie. No they're like the least sex. Yes. The sexiness is removed. They're routines. They're like tooth brushing. Yeah. I saw this in theater.

[00:23:56] I did yeah, did you guys see it when it came out? Yeah. So on theaters, yeah. Yeah, I saw it at the Brattle I think in Boston. Was it the Brattle? It was like a great old theater. Old rap theater. That is a, yeah. Cambridge, the Brattle. Yeah.

[00:24:09] Might have been the Brattle and if it wasn't shout out to the Brattle because I love you. Got me here in Boston. Shout out either way. We should say also this movie was in the United States released by Mubi. That's true, a frequent sponsor of the show.

[00:24:21] One of our most faithful sponsors. But the beginning of their theatrical distribution. Yeah, and I feel like was a bit of a sleeper hit. Yes, it was unfairly snubbed for an Academy Award. He has never gotten nominated? That's kind of rough. That's not that surprising.

[00:24:37] His movies are very shocking. Like I would say generally. Sure. But I did feel like this was his chance because it's sort of like. This felt like the one. This is a mystery movie. This is the kind of thing people want.

[00:24:48] But it was sort of a hot year I guess. And they have submitted him. It was the first time they had submitted him. That's wild, okay. Wow. Yeah. It's a country that makes a lot of movies too. It's not like.

[00:25:02] And his buddy Bong, he's gotta constantly go up against. Bong has only been submitted twice for Mother and Parasite. Wow, okay. Parasite one, remember? Yeah, best picture, best director, best screenplay. So yeah, let me give you some context then about this film.

[00:25:21] So he's making this after The Little Drummer Girl. So he's just worked on his first television show. It was American or English or it was the English language. Because there's a six year movie gap. But I imagine Little Drummer Girl is taking up a lot of that time.

[00:25:38] He got attached to a very famous blacklist script, a notorious blacklist script. Stoker 2. Called The Brigands of Rattleborge. Okay. Which is written by S. Craig Zoller. Oh yes. The provocateur of independent film. I don't know if you've heard of S. Craig Zoller. Man with the world's tightest ponytail.

[00:26:01] He makes these incredibly gnarly indie sort of thriller. I don't know how you. I used to see him at Sweetgreen all the time. Oh really? Yes and I. In the Harvest Bowl, you told me that. I would text you and you would say,

[00:26:12] I'm surprised you can recognize S. Craig Zoller. And I would just always say, his ponytail is so tight. At first you go, what's up with this guy? So a tight ponytail over here. Like tied up here? Like is he getting tension alopecia at the front?

[00:26:24] It looks like someone's drawn his hair because it's so like stretched. It's slicked and it's just like straight lines back. It's like how a kid draws hair. Yes. Yes. So that's like a Western, you know. Right. That I'm sure is quite violent.

[00:26:40] That was his like breakout spec script. Right, that's never been made. Right, right. He makes all these movies where people get like sawed in half or like their face gets smooshed and you're like, ugh. Or they just like eat a tuna salad sandwich for 15 minutes.

[00:26:51] Right, but then they're also like two and a half hours long. That's also disturbing actually. Right, exactly. It's all, he's. He is a very interesting filmmaker. Yes, yes. I gotta see this ponytail. Yeah, I'll show you the ponytail. Yeah. It's some, okay. You know that thing though

[00:27:04] where you see someone in person and you're like, that person's striking and then the more you look at them, you're like, oh, there's somebody. They have to be, they couldn't just be anybody. Right. I'm trying to find a picture of him.

[00:27:15] I mean, you can kind of see it here. I just feel like it's gotten tighter over time. It looks tighter in person too. It doesn't somehow totally. But you can sort of see the intensity of how tight it's been pulled here. Yeah, that's a tight pony.

[00:27:27] That would hurt. It looks like he pulls the pony and then gels it, if that makes sense. Oh, well as a former ballet prodigy. That's what it looks like. You're a ballet prodigy? No, I was a ballet swatigy. What? What? But I know about ponytails.

[00:27:44] I know about pulling those back so that you're crying. That is what it looks like. It looks like ballerina hair. When do you start ballet? I have a daughter. Four. Okay. If you're like a maniac. Yeah, like you don't have to do that.

[00:27:56] My daughter's gonna be very tall though and I know it's tough to be a tall ballerina. It's tough to be in any ballerina that's not like made of a toothpick. Not very, very small. David's wife is also over six feet tall. We've made a tall child.

[00:28:08] They are America's tallest couple and I am just constantly terrified of how few days I have left until she is taller than me. Weren't we talking about how taller people have more value? Yeah, we were. Was it me and you that were saying like.

[00:28:20] Yeah, we were saying it's the ultimate currency in this broken world. That's right, that's right. And why we have zero currency. Yep, yeah. Your height is listed as 5'4", is that correct? 5'3". Wow. They only add an inch or two. I embellish it slightly.

[00:28:31] Brandon is quite tall as well. He thought I was 5'8". He described me to a friend as 5'8". You have 5'8 energy. You sell it. But do you mean he has. I have this as a tall man where I'm kind of like,

[00:28:44] who knows how tall any of these small people are. Yeah, what are you 5'8"? Sure. These little beeping things running around. These things can barely detect them at all. They're sort of scuttling around my feet, yeah. I always think I'm the same height as anybody I'm standing opposite

[00:28:58] and then I see a picture and I realize. But I do have like a feeling of, I'm making direct eye contact with this person on the same level regardless of their height. The other day you were wearing quite tall boots. Yeah.

[00:29:10] And then we were standing in the street outside a restaurant and you went, do you want to see my impression of when I talk to Brandon? Which I thought that's a weird thing to say when Brandon is right there. And then you walked over to scaffolding.

[00:29:21] This is, Brandon did this. No, didn't you do this? This is my impression of Tat talking to me. I thought you did this. Okay. There was a lot of doing this happening. There were a lot of bits happening. You're aggressive bidders, the two of you. Good.

[00:29:36] I like a physical bit. Brandon walked over to scaffolding where there was a sign placed very high and he basically jumped up and down like a small dog trying to talk to the sign. That is very funny. This is an impression of his wife talking to him.

[00:29:49] The woman he loves. Who's your tallest co-star? Is it annoying to act alongside a very tall person? You're not even that small though. I don't know. I don't know. You put him in heels. You put him. Yeah, you do. Well, wait a second.

[00:30:03] She Hulk is all about you got real big. And there was a physical, there was an actress on set who was sort of like the height eye line reference double. Right. She's six seven. Yeah, she's six seven.

[00:30:14] So she would like sit in a chair to like show us how her body might sit in like a chair that is made for somebody who's not as tall as she is. Right. But then I was on platform two

[00:30:25] and I had like a big face on top of my head. Did that feel good? It was truly like my face like that. Was it green or was it? It was green. It was green. And it was like she hulked out and it was like this.

[00:30:39] Or there was this dead mask that they put on sometimes that had like little silver eyeballs. Okay. And it was like truly like dead face and that would be up here too. So my co-stars, they're the ones who really made it happen.

[00:30:54] Did you feel more powerful being on those like stilts? I felt more like a big baby than ever before. That feeling was like, yeah, like doo-doo-doo. Oh boy. Which kind of works. It works. No, I just don't think about this stuff until I have to think about it.

[00:31:12] You don't think that an actor's going doo-doo-doo. Doo-doo-doo-doo. Park wants to go back to Korea. That's the thing. As much as he's getting attached, I think the whole thing is like Hollywood is like, we want you. You know, like you clearly are a good genre director.

[00:31:28] Wildly out of order, but it's Stoker, handmaiden, drummer girl, this. Right, and handmaiden is a Korean film obviously, but that was partly funded I think by Amazon. It was co-financed by Amazon. Stoker's his only American film and the little drummer girl was American.

[00:31:43] And I think maybe made in Britain. Co-production, for sure. English language. Right, English language. But so he's homesick. He wants to make a Korean film. He starts brainstorming ideas with Chung Sik-kyung, his frequent, you know, co-writer. He has two ideas. One, he has a detective story idea

[00:32:03] and he's like, I don't want to do something about like a macho mystery cop, right? You know, who's like swearing and smoking and punching people. So instead he starts to come up with this character in Decision to Leave.

[00:32:18] His concept is a police officer who doesn't carry a gun, but instead carries wet wipes, right? Like this sort of like weird, courteous kind of cop. A gentleman cop. Right. He's also very interested in, my goodness, a Korean 1967 hit song called The Mist. Which is about a protagonist

[00:32:42] who's trying to understand the world around them. Do you know about this? Well, this factors prominently into the movie. Yes, you know, and this is a song he's loved since he's little. It's a song apparently all Koreans know and sing.

[00:32:58] And he was homesick making The Little Drummer Girl and started listening to Korean oldie like playlists on YouTube. And this song came up and yeah, tragic love song, someone leaving into the mist, looking at the silhouette of the person who left her behind, deeply romantic, all this stuff.

[00:33:17] Does Martin Beck come in later? So Martin Beck is more attached to the former concept of the like, can I make an anti-macho cop guy? Which yeah, those are these Swedish, sorry, Swedish novels. Anyone can mispronounce words. It isn't just a Griffin thing. Swedish, horrible.

[00:33:38] And anyway, so yeah, that is interesting because I remember when this movie was announced, you were like, well, what is it? And they were like, it's like an original crime thriller. But like, I do love like this sort of like myriad influences he's sort of like swirling together.

[00:33:54] He had done a couple adaptations in a row. Yes, true. And with Stoker, he's like taking someone else's script or whatever. This is the first time he's completely auto-generating something. Stoker kind of fucks. I would definitely watch Stoker. I think Brendan hates it. It's a very divisive movie.

[00:34:13] Then I shan't be watching it in our house. Brendan has strong opinions, yes. Okay, so he smashes all these ideas together. So basically what if Martin Beck, this Swedish police officer character falls in love with like the lady from the mist sort of. Right?

[00:34:30] Like that's sort of what he does. So it's not quite a detective story. It's not quite a romance. It's both. Yes. You know, it's also a sort of mystery noir. Like who can you trust? I don't know. I loved thinking about this creative process.

[00:34:47] I just think it's cool. Yeah, it does. Watching it for me the second time, it did feel like, I don't know if this is just my read onto it, but I'm like, I feel like this movie is fundamentally about what makes you attracted to people. You know?

[00:35:05] Like why do you feel inexplicable connections with certain people? You know? And the whole like red flags. You know? There's some red flags in this one. Yeah, but like people, when relationships end, if there is a demonstrable bad thing that happens

[00:35:23] or revelation about the other person or whatever, on any scale, right? Even a small scale. I just couldn't deal with this aspect of their personality. Behavior. It always feels like the first thing that people in your life ask you is, did you always feel that?

[00:35:38] When did you pick up on that? When did you get a sense of this? You know? And like, I've certainly been in relationships where I'm just like, all red flags identified at the starting line. For sure. But here's this undeniable thing. Can I just play this out? Yeah.

[00:35:55] You know? Does this outweigh that? And when you combine that with someone who is a detective, whose job is to just like kind of clinically assess things and just completely reason them out and who has a relationship that seems by and large, very happy and functional and normal,

[00:36:12] but there is just something about this woman. And it's not just about her because it's not like she's like a Catherine Tramiel sort of like seductress in a conventional sense. But it's like, there is some undeniable thing between them. And it's obviously just a thing

[00:36:27] that is also compelling about her and how she's able to live her life. Right. He says- That he can't reason out, that he can't really explain. Her posture. At one point he says, your posture is very upright. And I think that says so much about you.

[00:36:42] I'm so curious about what, because that's those things that like, he's like written a whole story about who she is. Right. And like, regardless of what she shows him, regardless of how often she's like at the scene of a crime, obviously like completely the one who did it,

[00:37:00] he like has this story like protects or like he rewrites it or he like- His job is also of course to be observant and try to understand people's motivations that they would be hiding, right. And all that. And I do think that's short circuited him slightly, right? Yes.

[00:37:19] And so it's partly about that experience, right. There's that amazing early sequence when he's sleeping with his wife and he starts like- The sex they have is hilarious. Yes. Where she's just like... Anyway, yes, go ahead. Like he sees- The creak of your chair was exactly right.

[00:37:39] I think it's so funny that she's smiling in this way of like, this is great, like, you know, good job buddy. Thank you, appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and after she's like, that was great, we're really good and happy marriage. Gotta do it one day.

[00:37:50] But even just the weird, right, the weird structure of their relationship being because he's a commuter. They basically live in different towns. It's like a once a week arrangement. Sort of high five. Right. Yeah, make some noodles. I think it's the first sex scene they have together

[00:38:03] where he's looking at the mold on the wall and then it morphs into like he can't stop thinking about his case. He can't stop his brain from constantly looking for patterns, clues, connections. Then he's looking at her skeleton in her arm basically

[00:38:18] and trying to relate it to the injuries that Tongwei has where it's just like, he's too observant about everything. He thinks about everything too deeply and this woman who is somewhat inscrutable is so exciting to him because he can't quite crack it.

[00:38:35] Yeah, because there's this thing about him looking at things directly. Yeah. He puts those droppers in his eye all the time before he goes into a crime scene or whatever to see things clearly. Get them moist. Yeah, yeah, gotta wet them up, lube them up. But he doesn't...

[00:38:55] Something about her and I think that I also felt this in watching her performance, there's this smile that's always just about to break in her regardless of what they're talking about or how earnest she's being. There's always this weird, what is actually, what's actually being, what's going on?

[00:39:14] And I feel like that inability to see her directly is where he gets totally fucked. He is pretty much immediately totally fucked. Yeah. I feel like I've already referenced this at some point in this mini-series, but Steven Soderbergh and David Fincher

[00:39:32] did a talk together at the Tribeca Film Festival and Soderbergh told this story about going to the edit or color correction with Fincher on one of his movies, watching him work. And they were sort of watching and he was with a laser pointer noting

[00:39:49] and he's up there in the top left corner. He's like, I want 25% more darkness in this sector of the screen. Right, or even he was 2 15ths darker, something hyper-precise. And Soderbergh was like, I walked out of the room, sat on the couch in the living room

[00:40:05] and rubbed my temples. And I was like, I cannot imagine the curse of being able to notice that. Like this is exactly what makes him such a good filmmaker, but it must be so constantly overstimulating to have that ability to suss out detail to that degree,

[00:40:21] which is like absolute what's happening to this guy too. He kind of can't turn it off at any point. Yes, he takes in too much or whatever. He's been doing it for too long. And that is, it tends to be a part protagonist thing.

[00:40:32] These people who feel too much, observe too much, feel too deeply, their senses are all heightened often. All right, so Park takes this idea that I just told you about to his co-writer, who is a woman, she writes all her movies. It's just important because-

[00:40:48] I think that's legal by the way. I think that's legal. Women should write movies! No, he takes it to her and she says, no thanks. I don't want to do this. Which is a woman's choice. Which is, we have to respect. Of course, yeah.

[00:41:04] She says, I said no, I didn't want to write a melodrama about an abused woman. That was sort of her instant reaction to him pitching this kind of like noir romance. And she sends back some thoughts of like, I don't want to do it.

[00:41:16] And he's like, okay, well, what do you think of this? And then they start talking and then she's like, fuck, he like tricked me into writing a synopsis. He's got me invested. She and he immediately agreed. They wanted Tang Wei, who's a Chinese actor, obviously.

[00:41:32] Third time we've covered her on the podcast. That's true because we love her. Between Love's Caution and Black Cat. That's right. Good ass actor. She's awesome. They wanted her, they say they usually do not write with an actor in mind in particular, but they just thought her face,

[00:41:48] they thought about her face immediately. I always feel like she's a shut box and you can't guess exactly what's in her head. She is inscrutable in a very interesting way without seeming deliberately elusive. No, she's not cold. No, right. There's a lot happening.

[00:42:03] No, it sort of looks like she's about to cry half the time. Like, yeah, she does feel very empathetic or like you feel like you want to tell her stuff, right? You know, like, yeah. Have you seen Love's Caution?

[00:42:15] Do you want to buy her like really fancy sushi? Love's Caution's really good. A lot of people have not seen it. Bit of a bummer. It's not a big word. It's not a big word. Bit of a bummer. It's not a big well-seen movie. I love a bummer.

[00:42:25] Well, let me know what it is. But it's a movie about basically she has to seduce a man as an act of political espionage and the whole movie hinges on like, is she falling in love with him? Is it real? When is that moment?

[00:42:38] When can she discern, you know? So she does this. This actor does this. And he doesn't quite know and she doesn't quite know. And as an audience member, you're left to decide at any point does this become real? Uh-huh. You know? Yeah, it's one of those performances

[00:42:54] that's just deeply, immediately captivating. And that was pretty much her first performance, right? She was, yeah, that was her breakout. So Park Hae-il, who is the cop, the detective, he's worked with Park before? No, maybe not actually. He's in The Host, the Bong Joon-ho movie.

[00:43:12] He's a big Korean actor. No, I guess he never had worked with Park before. Okay, he is also basically cast before the movie's even written. He's writing it for the two of them. Yes, he is very quickly brought on board. He brings in these two actors

[00:43:30] as they're continuing to write. And he says like, if you don't wanna do it, we're gonna stop writing. Because we basically just started writing with you guys in mind. Wow. Park had never, Park Hae-il had never worked with Park Chan-wook, they're both Park, before.

[00:43:45] And thought maybe they were just gonna chat. Like he was like, you know, and before they ordered food, Park Chan-wook apparently just like talks for 90 minutes, being like, this is the movie in my head, like listen. Like and tells him the entire thing.

[00:43:57] And Park Hae-il says, I really needed to pee about halfway in. I was so immersed in what he was saying, I didn't wanna interrupt him. So I just let him talk. I've always loved Tong Wei, since Less Caution. So yes, he was interested.

[00:44:14] I just liked that idea of like the fever pitch and the guy's like, I have to pee so badly, when's he gonna stop talking? That is the sweetest, that also just reminds me of like how, the human moments that he brings to this

[00:44:26] that are so, I don't know, something about that is like so human. The second half of the movie in particular, I feel like he really has like a sad puppy dog vibe. When you're really like, buddy, oh God,

[00:44:36] you really, no, you did it, you got away from her. But it's not like a self-pitying performance. No, no. You're truly just like, this guy doesn't, is someone helping him out? Can someone else enter? And then I'm also kind of in the movie,

[00:44:50] I'm like, ride the lightning, who cares? Your life is boring. Ride the lightning is a great way to describe what this movie's about. Riding lightning. So Park and his co-writer Chung do make the conscious choice, let's have less violence and sex than we usually put in our movies.

[00:45:13] Cause they usually think of that as like this sort of like very, you know, you grab the audience right away with stuff like that. And instead they were like, no, let's try to like get away from the sort of extreme label.

[00:45:23] Well, I also think if you make this same movie with more sex, it very quickly becomes a Joe Esterhaus movie, right? Like we've seen the version of this. It is an early 90s erotic thriller. Where the seduction is more physical than mental and is graphically displayed on screen.

[00:45:39] And it just, it will just shift into that. Also like as soon as they have sex, it sort of destroys the thing. Yes, totally. Cause then, right, no, totally. But the other thing they really wanted to use was cell phones, which like movies are scared of.

[00:45:54] I'm scared of them in movies. And in real life. Yeah, I don't like them at all, throw them away. I loved the texting in this movie. And I will never say that about anything else because it's like, it's done so beautifully.

[00:46:09] It's not even like, I don't even think he has made texting more cinematic than other people as much as he found a way to make it more dramatic. Right. Yes, totally. Apparently he was basically like, look I'm writing classical, right? He kept trying to not have cell phones.

[00:46:26] Cause he's like, this is supposed to be a swoony throwback noir, right? And then he's like, I can't get rid of cell phones. So if I'm gonna have them, you gotta lean all the way into them. I'm gonna have this like real drama playing out

[00:46:37] in text messaging, in like whatever, just the minutiae of using a phone. Well that's where the language divide is such a gift for him. That's where the translating app comes in. Talk about this recently where someone basically pinpointed like, oh kind of like the six major

[00:46:51] auteur filmmakers have not made a movie set in present day in 15 years. Like they just tracked like Wes Anderson, PTA. Like all these guys have just moved away. And admittedly, they're like, I just don't know how to tell a story in a world where smartphones exist.

[00:47:11] And Soderbergh is one of the few guys who like head straight into it. And it's like, you gotta make movies about now. You have to find a way to work this into the language, you know? Well I feel like in this one,

[00:47:21] it actually like amps up how much, how sort of emotionally immature. Like they're texting when they're texting about like the granny that she can't go see. And he's like, do you want me to go? And she's like, really? And it's like, I don't know.

[00:47:40] It just sounds like when you're first like dating someone or like interested in someone, it has such a kind of embarrassing childlike quality to it. Text flirting is such a specific thing where you're trying to read energy and intent

[00:47:57] in what is a very flat, sterile, cold thing, right? And the things you do to performatively try to relay intent can feel disingenuous or fake. It's like a dishonest way of communicating for how emotional it has become for most of us.

[00:48:20] And even just the weird, the rhythms of it, the waiting, all that sort of shit. But there is that thing of like, if you're text flirting with someone, I feel like you are visualizing what are they doing right? Yeah.

[00:48:31] In a way you don't if you're like texting someone. The dots. The dots. I mean, there's so much like drama and wait to just watching someone. Well, and also the rhythm of like, how much do I say before they say something back? Yeah.

[00:48:45] Oh, they're typing, oh, I can't talk. Or I start to say something, oh wait, they just sent in two more messages that totally negates what I was about to say. That is all like playing out in this really well. Yeah, and the dots like go over his face.

[00:48:58] There's like a point of view from the phone of the dots on his face. And you realize like how much, like that it takes up more of the frame than his face does. It's just like what the import of those is. Park Jenwick, yeah, he says,

[00:49:12] yes, I like Alfred Hitchcock, but honestly I wasn't thinking of Vertigo. He's a director coming up on the podcast. Film check with Griffin and David, podcast about filmography. He says, I think everyone basically is interviewing him being like, is this like a Vertigo thing? Are you doing Vertigo?

[00:49:28] Vertigo? And he's like, yeah, sure, I love Vertigo. But no, that wasn't my conscious like influence here. He says brief encounter, the David Lean film is more what he's thinking of in terms of vibe, like romantic vibe. GSC is weirdly more brief encounter.

[00:49:46] A little bit of that, sure. And then again, of course this song that is so crucial to him. And then read the ending, because this movie has kind of an iconic ending. He says, I have been trying to put that

[00:49:58] as the end of a movie for like 30 years. And I finally figured out how to do it. Like a person being like, I'm not just gonna commit suicide. I'm going to put a hole in the earth and put a lid on it

[00:50:11] and you will never see me again. I will evaporate. Like that idea of complete kind of like- Closed loop. Yes. Yeah. And so he sort of, he thought about putting an epilogue on the film where you see the detective again

[00:50:30] as this sort of like shell of a person. And he was like, no, no, no, no. Like we'll just end it right there. He's shelled out on that beach. Yeah. You think he just kind of is like, all right, I'll sun myself after a while.

[00:50:41] He's like, I guess she's gone. Maybe I'll dip. That's my favorite kind of ending though, is just what the fuck is this character gonna do with the rest of their life? Oh God, what now? You know? They move on past this. I don't want to see it,

[00:50:53] but I'm never gonna stop thinking about what is this guy, how is he feeling a month from now? You know? Right. So yeah. Okay. So yeah, let's talk about the plot of the movie. Guy falls off a mountain. Go. Go? Yeah, go. Hit me.

[00:51:11] Point of view from dead man's eyes. A couple of times we see like weird dead people's point of view of like ants crawling on eyeballs, which is an, what the heck? It's a very cartoon look. You don't like that? No, I'm just saying,

[00:51:24] I personally don't like when ants crawl on my eyeballs. I like in the movie, that's a good technique. Wait, didn't you say you don't like POVs? No, this is another person I was talking to. But you were around, you were standing nearby. Okay. Do you like POVs?

[00:51:37] Yeah, wouldn't use well. I think, I mean, once again, it's like Park is such a sensual filmmaker and sense-based filmmaker that I do think when he's doing POV shots, it's for a real reason. In the running, the POV shots? Yes. I don't even know how they shot it,

[00:51:55] but it's like on their back. He is also the king of, I don't know how they did this shot. Like every one of his movies has like five shots where you're like, I can maybe game out how you did this, but it's too complicated to imagine.

[00:52:08] Or you're doing visual effects, which this movie has a lot of, that are so seamless and subtle. Like, you know, that I'm not even thinking about them until the camera fucking goes through a wall or something. And then you're like, oh, I guess Jesus.

[00:52:20] I read a thing that said that he like deliberately tried to do many of the text sequences from the POV of the phone, which he doesn't do in like, I feel like sometimes people do it. Like so you're seeing someone's dumb face like with like illuminated?

[00:52:36] Yeah, but also it's just like, right, because for them, it is sort of like, it's a shot reverse shot. It's a conversation. Sure. You know, you need to read their faces. It's just this one device in between the two of them basically.

[00:52:50] He does the same with the phone when he's on the stakeout. And then suddenly he's like inside of her house and her voice is over the phone, but he's in the room with her. Right. Right. And it's like, he's so inside of her space.

[00:53:07] But also that's how he has to think about everything. Like being with like- As a detective, right? He's a creep. Right. He's invading. So pervy. Yeah, it's a little pervy. It's a little pervy. I mean, he's getting his rocks off on it, but you also just imagine,

[00:53:21] I imagine at least, that's his basic technique of like someone's telling you a story. You place yourself in it. Right. You run through the simulation in your head. And you go, does this make sense? Is this plausible? Right. Right. Because a guy has fallen off of a mountain

[00:53:37] that he climbed on. Correct. He was an immigration officer. Right. And his wife was a Chinese immigrant. Right. She's got scratches on the back of her hand. Right. They later discovered she also has bruises on several parts of her body. Right. And a pretty odd tattoo. Yes.

[00:53:52] Oh yeah. With his initials. Yes. Which he also stamped on everything he owned. Yes. A real kind of branding property sort of vibe. Creepiness. Yep. And so if you're a detective, you probably are like, she pushed him off the dang mountain, right? Seems kind of open and fresh.

[00:54:11] I don't know. Movie over. And you know, I'm seeing this film. I haven't seen a Park Chan-wook film since The Handmaiden, which blew my mind. Well, none of us have. By the way, don't fucking make it sound like you were special in that regard.

[00:54:24] I'm sitting at the IFC center at my press screening and I'm rubbing my hands together. I'm like, great, a mystery. And we got that early shot of him and his sidekick climbing up the mountain horizontal. Oh yes. Doing like the fucking Adam West Batman shot. Yes.

[00:54:41] On this like winch. And the guy's like, why are we not going up the road? Like in a car. Yes. And he's like, this is how the body went. The other way, but you know, I think that's his notion of like, we should follow the body.

[00:54:55] Now be my human backpack. Back up. Yeah, it's extra funny that they're doing it in tandem and the one guy is strapped to the other guy. Yes. If you asked me to do that, I would resign my commission from the fucking Busan police.

[00:55:09] I'd be like, no, I will not do that. That's when I really started to love this movie. That's the thing with Park is like, so funny. 10 minutes into his movies, you're like, yeah, I'm ready for a mystery. Sure. Who did it? Yeah.

[00:55:22] You know, who's it going to be? Not the wife, I guess. Red herring. And then he's like, okay, these guys are climbing up the mountain. And I'm like, I've never seen anything like this before. What are you doing? Right, right. The fuck is this?

[00:55:31] That is the most quietly bizarre human behavior I've ever seen. Yeah. And it will happen 10 times in each of his films. Right. Yeah. So yeah, so they start staking her out and he falls in love with her. And he likes what he sees. He likes what he sees.

[00:55:46] Yeah. But you're also sort of getting the idea that he is a deeply odd individual himself. He has this marriage that seems kind of loving, but also bizarre. They're like 16 years in. And yeah, they're kind of like, marriage still going good, huh? Right? What's your name again?

[00:56:02] Like, they kind of have this vibe of like. Yes. I don't know, this is a marriage, right? What we do where we sort of see each other sometimes. It feels like, I'm sure we've all had this thing, but when you have like friends who have a roommate

[00:56:14] who spends half the week working in a different city, and you're like, what's your roommate like? You're like, I talk to him two days a week, but he's cool. You know, it's just kind of in and out. But then they have sex as well.

[00:56:24] I just think it's such a good choice to not have it be like, it is like a horrible, loveless, dead, cold. Right, like they've got nothing for each other anymore. No, they're like kind of good friends. They're kind of good pals,

[00:56:34] but then he's like, all right, back to my city apartment where I have like pictures of murder everywhere. Yes. While I make my noodles. Like, I'm just like. There's a moment where she scolds him, and I'm like, none of the fucking murder pictures here. That's city shit.

[00:56:47] Right, yeah. So he's got that marriage, he's got his weird murder apartment, and he starts buying Tongwei fancy sushi when he interviews her, which looks really good. I mean, the food in this movie, the like movement from like sushi to corn dog, it's such a nice little.

[00:57:09] Yeah, see, I'm not a sushi guy, but when that corn dog came on screen, I went, oh boy. Do you not like sushi? Loops in my tie. I don't like the sushi, yeah. Never? I'm not a seafood guy. It's like glistening. I'm not a seafood guy.

[00:57:21] Do you like sushi? Oh yeah, and this sushi specifically, I was like, I'm gonna murder somebody. It looks beautiful. When he brings it in, and the other cop's like, wait. I'm gonna murder somebody for that sushi. You know there are other ways to get sushi, right?

[00:57:33] I don't know, not this kind of sushi. You know, the cops are like, oh, he got like the good sushi. He got like the $35 sushi, but not the like, you know, $14, right? He got like the good stuff. I do this for all my murder suspects.

[00:57:47] So yes, he starts having these exquisite meals with her while he's also just trying to figure out her deal. Yes. And what else is going on with her? She's a caretaker to an old woman. She's got an airtight alibi they find out pretty quickly

[00:58:00] because of the old woman, because of the schedule. She was there. Yeah, she was caretaking. Yes. What else is going on? She says the woman is her grandmother. Right. Yes. There's another case they're trying to solve, because the whole thing with the chainmail glove,

[00:58:16] which is also early, which is also another- So Ben has had a tab open from basically the moment the episode started. He's been looking up different chainmail gloves on Amazon? That's correct. Oh wow. I didn't know about this. Did you guys know about this? No.

[00:58:30] So there's a whole, there's tons of these products. It's so that you don't cut yourself. What do you mean by these products? Chainmail gloves. It's for like, madeleining. Yes. Right? Like when you're cutting those things, right? That makes sense. Is it for shucking oysters? Right. Let's see.

[00:58:48] Any kind of meat processing, that makes sense. Or slicing like fish fine, right? With super sharp knives. This particular product that I sent a link to you guys- Do you think I need to do it for- It shows someone handling a chainsaw.

[00:58:59] Yeah, and holding it by the blade. Wow. Yeah. Yikes. The Amazon listening. I'm sorry, what were those three sounds? Could you repeat? Wouch, wouch, yikes. I heard them. I heard them. But don't you agree? I do agree. I also feel like I have to measure my palm.

[00:59:17] I'm just wondering if I need an XL or a double XL. I got kind of regular sized hands, I think. You should probably go bigger than smaller. Smaller would be horrific. Because it's chainmail. It's not going to give. No. Are there child-sized chainmail gloves?

[00:59:30] It's got a two X small. I don't know how dainty you want to go. Pretty. Apparently, the actor sort of talks to a couple friends of his who were policemen. He's like, I'm playing a cop. And one retired cop is like, you know what I've got?

[00:59:47] I've got a chainmail glove. Oh no way. Because it's so specific. Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, when he's chasing this guy, which is this sort of an unrelated case. Yes. This scene, right? This big chase. They get to a rooftop. The guy produces a knife.

[01:00:01] And instead of drawing a gun or- I think maybe they don't have guns in Korea that much. There's one gun that the other, his partner has. Doesn't he have a- And they shoot guns off the top. The first moment is them shooting. They do.

[01:00:16] Yeah, so cops have guns. I think South Korea has incredibly strict gun control generally. So it's more, I guess, more common for a guy to produce a knife. He just very slowly and deliberately takes out a plies of chainmail glove.

[01:00:26] And he's like, well, I guess it's the classic battle of hand versus knife. Yeah, so I can just grab the blade. But it's also on the heels of my favorite chase scene I've ever seen in my entire life, which is up those stairs. And it's so exhausting.

[01:00:41] And it's so slow. And nothing about it is suspenseful. And yet it's brilliantly suspenseful. Yeah, and what's funny is the moment of him having to take out the glove and put it on could be sold as this slow stare down intimidation thing.

[01:00:58] But it's basically he has the time to do it because they're both so winded. They're both panting. Okay, okay, he's like, I got a knife. The part pulling the knife is him kind of saying like, so just give me like 90 seconds to catch up

[01:01:13] now that you know the knife's in play. That's so good. But yes, I agree. I love that the chase sequence is trying to be realistic. It's trying to be like, this would cock you out. Yeah. I just, I personally would wear a chainmail vest.

[01:01:29] I don't think I would have enough faith in myself that I could catch knife with hand before it touched other body. Why not go full suit of armor? That is what all pops should be wearing at all times. Lumbering. While running up stairs.

[01:01:44] Well, no, on horseback, of course. Yeah, lance in hand. Some other things. Wait, actually some other details I wanna talk about. He has so many pockets. And this is again apparently a Park idea that the sort of wet wipe detective idea.

[01:02:03] Like he would be filled with little things, like a walking vending machine of a man who's like, because he's like, I can plan for anything. Right? Like is this concept. And are you sending me more chainmail now? Okay, Ben. Now it's a vest. Chainmail vest.

[01:02:18] How much does that cost? It's a hundred bucks. A hundred dollars. That guy looks ready to go. You know what, what? That's not a bad price for a chainmail vest. Hundred what? Well, the shipping though, you know, cause it could be kind of heavy. Very heavy. Yeah.

[01:02:35] David, I think you should get it. I think it would be a good look for you. The chainmail met my expectations. That's what one review says from Mr. Han. What were your expectations? I don't know. That's what we need to specify.

[01:02:46] Here's the guy wearing it on the subway. I don't know how I would feel about that. The model in the listing Ben posted is very much in a fighting stance. Yeah. So yes, Park. Yeah. Just like the idea of this guy being filled with pockets.

[01:03:01] And of course, yes, there's a chainmail glove in his pocket. The eye drops as well. Him trying to see the world more clearly. That's very crucial. Brendan said an interesting thing about the pockets. He said that his wife is always struggling to find something in his pockets.

[01:03:18] Whereas his mistress. She always knows where everything is. She understands him on some inherent level. Or she just studied the pockets. Well, that's the mind fuck of knowing this woman. The whole time you're like, wait, are you in love with me?

[01:03:31] Or are you just like, you just most incredible. Really focused on my pockets. I mean, there is a tweet that I've repeated, which is this bit like someone was like, I love that movie. It was about a lady is so hot

[01:03:41] that a detective forgets how to do his job. Yeah, basically. Because yes, I think what I loved about the movie the first time I watched it is I was like, I am going to watch a movie about a man who is sort of, you know, we like detectives

[01:03:58] because we like that they can fix things. Right. You know, the whole myth of like policing on screen. Right. They're going to come in and they're going to like untangle the confusing. So they make sense of the chaos. Right. And this is a weird, strange murder case.

[01:04:09] And he'll figure it out. And instead, like he only baffles himself more the more he tries to figure things out. Because he adds more complications. Right. And what he realizes about her is that, well, a bunch of things. One, she killed her mother. Right. Yes.

[01:04:30] A sort of, you know, an ethical, you know. That's more now his colleague says like, look, there's a pattern. And then she basically immediately fesses up to like, these were the circumstances. Her mother was ill. Might have been the original decision to leave. Mm hmm. Right. Ultimately. Right.

[01:04:47] Right. Right. It's exciting. Before and then her mother told her to like climb a mountain. Mm hmm. Right. Because she's had some attachment to Korea and she was like, I want you to climb this mountain. Like that. Like there's all these little dangling things.

[01:05:02] Isn't it her family's mountain or something? Right. But that's to find out later. Her grandfather or something. Right. There's this possible sense of ownership of this mountain to some degree. Yeah. But she doesn't like mountains. She says something about mountains are... What does she say?

[01:05:18] She says the ocean is for blank people and mountains are for blank people. I don't remember what the descriptors are, but it's like benevolent. I wish the quote page was better for this. Yeah. Is the quote page not very good? No. I was hoping it might be better.

[01:05:30] Me too. Oh yeah. There's nothing. I'm Chinese. My Korean is insufficient. Great. Great quote. It's just Griffin. It's also true about me. But she does whatever. Like she's officially ruled that she's not allowed to go to the mountains. She's officially ruled...

[01:05:48] It is officially ruled a suicide, this death. Yeah. And then their relationship continues. Because it's only after that that he figures out that she did it. Right? Yes. Correct. The case is closed. Right. And he figured out that she did it because

[01:06:02] there's a cell phone that she gave the old lady that said she climbed 138 flights. I just think it's so funny. Yes. It's great. Just like zero, zero, zero. Yeah. And didn't really climb a lot of flights. You know, on her murder day,

[01:06:15] you climbed kind of like a mountain of stairs. It's weird. And then she also realizes, he realizes rather, that that is not her grandmother. No. And that the woman doesn't know what day it is. So the alibi is meaningless. She doesn't know anything.

[01:06:28] She can barely tell people apart or whatever. Yes. But she loves The Mist. She loves that song. She does love that song. Movies like this that are like fundamentally about can you trust this person or not? Looking at close-ups of actors delivering lines

[01:06:46] and placing yourself in the head of the person who is having to make the judgment calls, I always find so interesting because world's most basic ass thought, all acting is lying. Right? And good acting basically boils down to how convincing of a liar is someone. Right?

[01:07:02] And like method acting, this term that is thrown around so much and that often is misconstrued and most people practice it are not actually connected to the idea of what it was at the beginning. Inner doofuses. Inner doofuses. Right. It was mostly just this idea of like

[01:07:18] can we create a method to make it feel like we are lying less? Right? To some degree, to one degree or another. Not you have to convince yourself you are this person. But how do you bring the lie closer to yourself

[01:07:30] so the truth is more on the surface? But it does still all come down to how well can you lie? Are you lying convincingly because you're making it close to something that's the truth? Do you just know how to perform the truth? What is all of this?

[01:07:45] And so often in noir movies like this, someone is playing unreadable. Like that is the aggressive vibe they are putting out there. Right? Whereas I feel like Tongue Way to a certain degree is playing honest. I don't think she is playing suppressing a lie. No, not... Well, no.

[01:08:05] It's hard to know. It's hard to know but it doesn't read that way. She's not sort of playing mysterious. She's playing like I have an inner life that I haven't totally given you all of the information about yet. You understand that she's not... There's stuff she's holding back.

[01:08:20] She is also a genuinely wounded woman. Like she is the victim of abuse. Right. She is somewhat justified in pushing this sort of dorky husband off a mountain. Yeah. Just a hilarious way for him to die. I mean, you know. She's got a whole YouTube channel about it.

[01:08:37] There's that moment where you see it. You know, him going like boing, boing. You're kind of like, kind of rocked. The boing noise was really I feel like maybe not necessary. He does like an end of Robocop Dick Jones fall basically. Yeah.

[01:08:53] A full tip it stop motion fall. But it's just I feel like it's just more important. It's not that... It's not like who did it or why it even happened. It doesn't really matter. You can figure that out immediately. It's that like him actually convincing himself

[01:09:07] that she didn't do it and then realizing she did it completely ruins his brain. Sure. He's just like everything I've built this brain to be is no longer functional. Yes. If I can't figure that out. Like if I fuck this up.

[01:09:19] If I can't trust my instincts in my job that I've honed so sharply. It's like he's a chef who can't smell things anymore. He's just like, I'm broken. I don't have a palate anymore. He says I'm shattered. A palate for crime. Wait a second.

[01:09:32] I have a great idea for a TV show. A palate for crime. Man smells crime. Tate, you did Perry Mason for HBO. Yeah. When you're on a thing like that where you understand like... Because I think one of your many strong suits as an actor

[01:09:49] is that you're making a face like you hate that I'm about to say anything complimentary. I am not. You are very good at like knowing what project you're in and matching the tone and the style of the thing you were in.

[01:10:04] Because I think you have a tremendous amount of like genre tone range. Thank you. But something like that where you understand like an audience is watching this as a mystery. Yeah. Right? This is the way it needs to operate. Yes.

[01:10:21] Are you trying to play with an awareness of the genre you're in or are you just thinking about like playing the character as written? Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, I feel like when the writing is really good, it sort of evokes something.

[01:10:36] Regardless of whether you like put on top of it the idea of a genre. Yeah. It sort of... If you allow it to like move you in a certain way, it sort of like elicits the... I'm sure you feel that way too.

[01:10:49] Like writing will like open up a certain delivery or a certain space or like a quietness or whatever. What's the hardest thing to do is to act bad writing. Oh, yeah. When a script is really good, even if it's complicated, you're like, well, it just makes sense. Yeah.

[01:11:07] Totally. And now what is the bad writing you guys have acted? And if you could just sort of... We'll go through the IDB. Yeah. 98.9%. Get out of here. I mean, come on. You've been in some good stuff. Wow. But like is that when... Does it...

[01:11:22] This is my question, I guess. Do you really just try to like trust the instincts of like if this is well written enough, I can just play this as it is and just invest in it emotionally and honestly? Or working on like that show in particular,

[01:11:37] are you like I know an audience is going to be reading every scene I'm doing trying to figure out whether or not I'm on the level. And do I need to play with that like a game sort of? I think sometimes you do. Sometimes I do.

[01:11:49] But I also just try to play the honesty, the truth of that moment. And I think we were sort of saying this about Tang Wei too. She's not like... She's one of those actors, and I don't feel like I'm this,

[01:12:01] but I really revere and also I'm jealous of, like especially women who can do so little and you're like... Like you could watch them forever. Yes. Because their face and their just like presence is compelling enough that you... And I think this is also what this character would...

[01:12:19] The detective does is like project onto her a lot. Right? And like she is sort of this like wonderfully open actor who also has all of this shit going on so that you can project a lot onto her. And that's sort of the like...

[01:12:35] You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's the thing they set up early. She like laughs inappropriately early in the movie and then she says like, I'm sorry I sort of like laugh as a nervous response when I don't feel comfortable with my Korean.

[01:12:47] And it's the opposite of what you expect someone to do in a movie like this where it's like, oh their give is something that makes them seem more dangerous. Right. Rather than something that deflates the stakes of the situation. Yes.

[01:13:00] It's so disarming where it does feel like her performance is kind of playing against the genre of the thing. Totally. What's weird is that she's not acting like a femme fatale. No, and I generally don't enjoy those performances. Like I'm kind of like...

[01:13:14] It feels like an idea of a woman that is just like serving a purpose to the men's story. But this one feels like she has like a whole other thing going on that we're not privy to. And like a whole like, yeah,

[01:13:28] like a life that isn't just like... Right, she's not just as a man perceives her throughout the movie or whatever. That's the boring version of this. No, she sort of tells him who she is in a lot of ways. Right. But he's like, no, you're actually the... Yeah.

[01:13:46] It's like the conflict between what he wants to think she is and what she's actually... Right. And he wants her to probably be more... She's easier to handle as like, oh, a wronged wife who got her revenge.

[01:13:58] It's like, great, that's a story I tell as a cop all the time. Yeah, yeah. It does feel like pretty early on he's like, if she did this, she must have done it for reasons. Right. And not motive, right?

[01:14:11] But like, it feels like this must have been somewhat justified. Even if I don't condone it as actions. It does... It feels like pretty quickly he rules out the idea of like, is she some like psychopath? Black widow, whatever. Right, master manipulator.

[01:14:27] Yeah, there's some larger thing going on here or she is on the level. Right. Where are we in the plot now? Well, 13 months later... Right, right. He, broken as a detective, has decided to move in with his wife, which is a decision a lot of married couples make,

[01:14:44] to move in together. Not the decision to leave, decision to stay. Sure. Become a wife, guys. But he makes the decision to leave her. He's like, I cannot be around you. Like, you clearly are throwing my radar off. And he like starts a YouTube channel and a podcast

[01:14:56] and writes a cookbook. That's all just about how much he loves his wife. Yeah, he's gone crazy, I would say. He's living with her in Ipoh, right? This sort of seaside town. Yeah. Away from the big city, because most of them are set in Busan,

[01:15:10] which is the second biggest city in Korea, South Korea. And he's depressed and he's not sleeping. And then one day at the fish market, who does he meet? But Tong Wei and her new husband. A real fool. Yes. I mean, instant moron. Right?

[01:15:30] Like, one of these guys is like, oh Jesus. Like, what is this twerp? I can't believe we forgot to mention, because it is set up earlier. I mean, this is when he's like, it's really hitting him hard after the time jump.

[01:15:40] But this movie is in the detective dormer canon of sleepy cops who can't go to sleep. Oh yeah, he can't sleep. Yes, the film Insomnia is what Griffin is referencing. The Christopher Nolan film. Have you ever seen Insomnia? No. In which Al Pacino is in Alaska.

[01:15:57] Oh, I actually have seen Insomnia. Yeah, yeah. And it's just... I think it was shot in Canada. Yes, it was shot in Canada. That is right. They didn't bother to go to Alaska. It's all Pacino just going like, I gotta take a nap. Well, speaking of method acting,

[01:16:10] I think he was like, I am not sleeping. Yeah. I think he didn't sleep. Yeah, it also feels like... He reads tired in the movie. And not in a bad way, but he's good. I would not be surprised if Pacino did an interview tomorrow

[01:16:21] and said like, I haven't slept since 2001. You know? Still Insomnia. Yeah. Yeah, they filmed it in British Columbia. Stewart, British Columbia. Did you audition for that? No, but I... That would have been a little... I was a little young. Yeah.

[01:16:37] But I didn't, David, I had never put this together that you are the victim in Eastern Promises. I am. I thought you were saying that to me and I was like, I'm not. No. We were watching the game the other night. Yeah.

[01:16:52] And Brendan was like, oh, that's your rapist. And I was like, what? He's like, from Eastern Promises. Like, oh yeah. Oh, he's in the game? He's in the game. Wait, who is it? He's a great actor. But yeah. Because you're mostly dead in that movie.

[01:17:05] I'm only dead in that movie. Right, right. Are you seen? I'm a diary. No, I'm just like a voice. You're just a voice, right? I'm a Russian and my name is Tatiana. That's why I got the pen. Oh yeah?

[01:17:18] Like no one can say that their name is that convincingly unless it's true. Right, right. That's what we're talking about. Armin Mueller. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mueller's style. Oh, right. Yes, yes. He's in Eastern Promises. He's no good. And the game. Yeah, and also any movie he's ever in.

[01:17:35] God bless him, but that actor plays villain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like one of your first credits though, right? Or movie credits. I don't know. First movie credits for sure. Yeah. It was very fun. I know that you're in Ginger Snaps too. You do? Yes.

[01:17:50] I don't remember why I know that. I've only seen Ginger Snaps. I've seen Ginger Snaps one many times. The second one is a real squeakquel. Oh shit! You guys turned into chipmunks? We did. Were monks? Were monks. Were monks. It's a metaphor for womanhood, you know?

[01:18:04] You turn into a chipmunk. Yeah. Wait, how did this come up? Oh yeah, you were pointing at me saying I was the victim in Eastern Promises and I wasn't. I was just the victim of enjoying that movie. Guilty. Exactly. You're actually the perpetrator. Right, exactly.

[01:18:18] I'm having a great time. God, I love that movie. Rules. That movie rules. That movie has some similarly interesting things. That movie rules. That movie has some similarly very, very human fight sequences where you're like skin is going to be actually piercing. Like actual piercing skin. Right.

[01:18:37] Viggo probably could have done with a chainmail glove. They're coming at it with carpet knives. He could buy chainmail. I can think of another place he could have put the chainmail if I was looking after. Just for there? I think his dick survives in Eastern Promises.

[01:18:43] Yeah, but I wouldn't roll the dice on that. No, no. Fight's about to break out. I go, excuse me one second. If you had to pick one place to go, which one would you pick? I would pick the one where I'm not the victim.

[01:18:49] I would pick the one where I'm not the victim. I would pick the one where I'm not the victim. I don't know. Eyes. I want my eyes. I don't know. Don't give up my eyes. You love your eyes. Oh, you want a chainmail goggles? Yeah, there you go.

[01:19:00] Sure. I just want to be able to see. Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right. A trite desire of mine. A foolish thing to want. As a film fan. Sure. So, okay.

[01:19:09] So, I'm going to go ahead and say that I think that the movie is a bit of a shame. I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame.

[01:19:16] I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. I do too.

[01:19:23] I love this any time in a movie where the dynamic is he's losing his mind and his wife was sort of like, isn't this I feel like I've seen this girl's picture. Like, this isn't one of your cases.

[01:19:37] She you as the viewer are trying to parse, like how much does the wife know that he's melting down right now? Right. She's back. Yeah. Right. Like the heat, like this ghost has come to haunt him. Yeah. the eyes of the fish.

[01:19:48] I'm just realizing when we're talking about eyes and seeing things clearly, right? She like squishes all the eyes of the fish to see which one's fresh. Something about that, right? Eyeballs guys, eyeballs. I work at a fish market, I'm like, stop squishing my fish eyes.

[01:20:02] Just like slowly throughout the day those eyes just. No but yeah, not only, in the same way I love that the marriage is not lifeless, joyless, right? I love that the wife is not just like unbearably suspicious and jealous.

[01:20:20] No, the only thing she's stressed about is him smoking. Yeah, right, that's the nightmare. It's a healthy habit. Yeah. Yeah. There's the bit where he comes in from outside and he's wearing just a parka, shirtless over boxers. Sure. And he clearly has been smoking

[01:20:42] and she asked him why he would have gone outside and he has some line about like, men like me need the mist of the air. Fucking mist again. Yeah. I do love, I would love to, I kind of like the look of where they move.

[01:20:54] I like that seaside vibe. Yeah. Go to the fish market all the time. For sure. It's good for you. Well and they say, Parks and Rec said that it was like, he couldn't set the whole movie in this misty city because it would be too boring, he said.

[01:21:07] So that's why in the second half we go into the mist. Okay, that makes sense. Right, right. And also, right, our man now has like, full on sleep apnea, has been outfitted for a mask. Right. Yeah. I mean he can't sleep. No. There's also that thing about sun,

[01:21:25] he says something about like, sunbathing for half an hour a day and not closing your eyes, which is again, eyeballs guys. But it's a weird, yeah. There's all these like, natural remedies for like, there's something about his virility and like, snapping turtles, right? Sure, yes. You know.

[01:21:47] Well that's another case that's happening. Right. And they're trying to show how normally there's not murder, it's, you know, they're investigating soft-shell turtles that got stolen. Right, they got dropped on the road or whatever, yes. But those are supposed to help with men, older men's... Testosterone.

[01:22:10] Yeah, fertility, virality. Turtle power. I just think like, yeah, turtle power. That's what you're... Wait, that's... He wants to raise some shell. Like, is that a thing? I understand that in many cultures, they're like, yeah, you gotta eat like a tiger's paw

[01:22:23] to get your boner back or whatever. Sure. But it's like, are there people who are like, I did it, it worked. You know, like, you know, like, I don't know what to tell you man. Before I ate that fucking tiger, like it was just,

[01:22:33] yeah, there's a giant fucking market for all this kinds of stuff. Is it just like people telling people... Particularly sold on podcasts these days, unfortunately. Wait a second. Those are all above board. Not us, I'm not saying us. Today's sponsor is Tiger Bones.

[01:22:50] Tatiana, we have hawked boner pills on this show so much. You've hawked them? Hawked them. We've hawked them. Do you guys have to try the things you hawk? They were always explicit that we did not have to try the boner pills. Usually you do have to try.

[01:23:03] But we eventually stopped, but so many ad reads. Yeah, I feel like there was... There was so many like... You know, I don't even know how much I hear them anymore, period. It did feel like there were like five years of podcast,

[01:23:15] the podcast industry solely being financed by boners or lack thereof. Yes, right. Yeah. But now they're back. They're back baby. Boners are just back. America is just at attention. Boners are having the best week ever. Hot boner summer 2023. Look, yes, he has been mentally cucked by life.

[01:23:35] Yes, he is in a ruined state. She comes back one day into him seeing her. Her husband is dead. It's the fucking same thing is happening again. He's died in a very dramatic manner. This time in a pool. The water's been drained.

[01:23:48] This guy is like a lot too from the first meeting. Like he's just coming on too strong, laughs too hard, makes too many jokes. Dark guy, right? Yeah, wears a fucking Oswald cobble pot coat. He's just a lot of dude. Yeah, he's a dork. Yeah.

[01:24:04] We see her get beat up before any of this plays out. By Slappy. By Slappy? Yes, yes. Don't we, and because the timeline is kind of mixed up right throughout. Am I wrong in that? Right, and then she takes her wig off and she's just like,

[01:24:19] that was the agreed upon amount of time. Right. But I'm saying this takes place before her now new husband gets murdered. Correct. Right, so because we're basically like, what is going on? And we truly have no idea. Because no, that was the thing. Sorry, yes, we missed this.

[01:24:34] Slappy was asking her to. And he's not, to be clear, the ventriloquist dummy from Goosebumps. Right. But that's Slappy's grandmother is the one she's taking care of, right? Yes, and his mother invested her life savings in the fucking husband, right? And he lost all the money,

[01:24:54] and so Slappy becomes like a potential killer. Yes. Right, he is a suspect. Right? I think his origin story is funny too, though. Go on. And he's like, I just slap, I slap, I slap, I slap. I don't, something like. You can't help but slap. Yeah. I mean.

[01:25:11] Well, he doesn't punch. He doesn't punch or hurt your hand. Yeah. He could slap for longer. Smart. Also, anytime anyone tried to say his name, he would slap them first. They're like, I guess we're just gonna call you Slappy now.

[01:25:22] If no one can even get your fucking name out. He is also, I think, supposed to be a Chinese immigrant as well. Right, like that is. There are some nuances that are, I think, tougher for us to detect because they come out through accents. Yes.

[01:25:35] And like Western viewers don't understand like, oh, that person's talking differently than this person. Any Korean viewer would immediately recognize that. The way she talks, her Korean apparently, is supposed to sound, the way Park Chan-wook describes it is like sort of Shakespearean.

[01:25:47] Like she's supposed to sound very classical. Sure. In a way that kind of would hurt your ear. Because she's trying too hard. Because she watches period films to learn it. Right. There's that scene where she describes something as solitary, when basically she means like only. Right.

[01:26:01] It's a little flowery. Right. Exactly. And he laughs at it and she doesn't understand why because it's like, it's not actually incorrect, but no one would say it that way. Yeah. So he says he did it. He's like, I did it. Right, he gets caught. I don't know.

[01:26:15] I mean, that happens pretty quickly, even though Hae-joon, the director detective is like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not getting fooled again. She did it. Like she killed both of them. I've seen my Hitchcock movies. This is some fucking strangers on a train ship.

[01:26:27] What's the arrangement you guys had? Yeah. And then he finally confronts her on this mountain of destiny. Yeah, which I will say, I don't know if I would go there. Well, this is the thing. Do you go back to your boring wife? God bless her.

[01:26:42] She seems like a nice lady. I'm not saying I wouldn't talk to Tong Wei anymore. I'm just saying I'd maybe pick the location. Oh, you're saying like maybe I don't want to see you on a day, man. During the day, brunch. Yeah.

[01:26:51] I'm not pretending I would be able to. Do you like locks? Do you wanna get some? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I would see her. We'd go to Russ and Daughters. We would not go to a fucking mountain. Right, and you'd have an appointment afterward. Yes, yes.

[01:27:01] Immediately after that you had to get to. Yeah, and I'd say like, David, can you just text me at 1245 just to like. Yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. Make sure, yeah. So, and she's like, I still have the phone. Cause he'd given her this phone

[01:27:13] with the 138 flights or whatever. And said like destroy it. She's like, I still have it. Yeah. Great thing to say. Not dramatic at all. This whole confrontation scene, which is so. Find the deepest part of the sea? Where is that? Oh man. Emotionally loaded.

[01:27:28] This is gonna take all day. Plays out while she's wearing like the headband with the light on it. Yes, which I was like, is this the son he's meant to look into for 30 minutes a day that actually doesn't help with his sadness? Doesn't help with his brain, but.

[01:27:46] I was so worried about the actor. I was like, that. Would hurt, would hurt. For both of them. For her to just have to keep her head at a certain angle so that she wasn't blinding him the whole time during the scene. Or blinding the camera. Right.

[01:27:58] Or him having to like be blinded. Yes. It's a lot. That was the hardest scene for me. She's basically like, here's this phone, you can get me. Like I wanna fix you. Sure. Right? You can still solve the crime. And he's like, here I wanna fix you.

[01:28:17] And by fix I mean make out with. Sure, love. Sex. Fuck sex. Fuck sex. I wanna do a little bit of fuck sex. Well first I wanna take your grandfather's ashes. Toss them out. Get him outta here. Get him out and then let's smooch.

[01:28:34] And then we are kind of in the end game, in the beach game. And there are so many sort of things I have to entangle about this, right? But is there anything else we're missing? Oh can I just shout out to She Young Kim. Please.

[01:28:50] Who is this great little character who comes in and she's his new partner. And I loved her the second she walked on screen. I was like this is my girl. I love her so much. She's apparently a comedian. She's also in a dance group. Yeah.

[01:29:06] Called like Five Something. She's got a cool hat. Yeah, I just love her. I thought that casting was so interesting. Like she's so obviously a comedic force. Right, right. I mean I would have fun with, you know, just a TV show about him trying to be

[01:29:23] a broken ass cop in, you know, Fishtown. Yes. Not to be, you know, right? But I do love Ray. It's like new partner. This should be like a reinvigorating moment for you. Yeah. And he's just so done. He's like so out past the point of no return.

[01:29:42] Yeah, but I mean, I just announced maybe one season every year at the end of every season the Tang Wei shows back up again with a new husband and then he dies. So she's like I swear I didn't do it! Yeah, that sweeps. And just like new highlights.

[01:29:54] She's the sideshow Bob of the show, right? Right. Once a season there's a new plan to kill Bart. So she basically confesses. Yeah. Or he figured, you know, like she did not kill her husband. But she gave Slappy the pills,

[01:30:13] the sort of death pills that she used to kill her grandma and knew he would kill her husband. Yes. Right? Wasn't it that she killed his mom and he said if something happens to my mom I'm gonna kill your husband? Right. Right, yes.

[01:30:29] Right, right, she visited the mom in the hospital. Yes. And right, she knew that would be, right, that's the chain of events. That's what I was trying to like untangle. Right, it was basically forcing, it is a weird or that's just strangers on train thing. Right.

[01:30:49] Where it's like well, she found someone to do the crime for her. Right. So her new husband cheated the mother out of all of her savings. Yes. Because he invested, I mean it seems like he was just a scam artist. Yes, exactly.

[01:31:00] But she just, yeah, recognized he's volatile and vindictive enough. If I push he will respond. The other thing that's happened is he found a recording of their conversation. Of the cop saying I love you on her phone. He's like I don't remember saying that. Yeah.

[01:31:17] And she's like well man, you were fucking in it. Yeah. Because you did. But, and she says I started loving you when you stopped loving me. Right. Basically. And so he goes to the beach to find her and she's buried herself in the sand, she's dead.

[01:31:36] To make herself his unresolved case. Yes. Right, but it's a, she'd go in beach, dig hole, buried, dead. I wanna say like thrill of the, Suicide by beach. Thrill of the chase thing, right? But it is this thing with like, with attraction, romantic interest

[01:31:53] and all these sorts of things where it's like, sometimes you can have the person who makes complete sense for you but the fact that they are so deeply knowable and understandable to you and available. Yes. Can't compete with the idea of like, I can't solve this. Yeah.

[01:32:13] You know? And not like I can't solve this murder, it does not have to be a criminal, evil, scary thing. But just when someone is constantly one step away from you, there's something being held back. Yeah, right. And it's like, she's completely drawn to his interest in her

[01:32:34] and that she can't figure out whether or not he trusts her. And the moment he gives up, she's done. Do you think she loves him? I think she does to a degree. Yeah, I think she does. But I think she also kind of loves the idea of him

[01:32:52] in a different way than he loves the idea of her. Yes. She loves the idea of him as someone where like, after he says like, I know you did it and I'm not going to bust you. How do you not fall in love with that a little bit?

[01:33:09] I also think she has, look, the men, her victims are all so predictable and easily manipulated, right? She knows how to game out, getting to do what she wants and having it all line up. And here's a guy who like kind of surprises her at every turn. Yes.

[01:33:29] She thinks she's got the better of him. And in fact, he is able to come to her and say like, I get it and this is what I'm choosing to do. You know? So much of her life is basically being able to run the simulation and be like,

[01:33:39] I know what fucking slap he's going to do. If I do this, here are the next five steps. And boys are bad. They're stupid. Right. They're going to let her down. But why does she die in beach? Why does she beach hole? Why? Why does she do it?

[01:33:52] Because she has a relationship with the ocean. She beach holes because. I think, see, I mean, obviously the main reason she does it is it's a banger of an ending. Yes. Him just like in the way of saying, where are you?

[01:34:07] I've always wanted to kill someone this way. And that shot of her sort of in the hole, you know, face on like ready to go is very arresting. But it also thinks like what you were saying about, you know, she leaves him with her being his unresolved thing.

[01:34:28] Yeah. Right. Totally. It's one of those people who you'll never get over because they always text you at like this one time of day or night and like hook in a little hook. Yeah. Like those. And now she's just hooked him forever.

[01:34:45] But I also like, I don't think it is purely a, like I am cursing you with this memory kind of thing. This like unresolved dangling thread thing. I think she also is to some degree, like I can't keep running. This will catch up with me, right?

[01:35:02] At some point, whether he decides to turn on me or not, you know, like this is, is this sustainable? She doesn't want to just keep fucking murdering people. Right? Exhausted. Yes. Exhausted. Just wants a fucking nap. She wants to make a decision to leave. To leave.

[01:35:21] But I think the other thing is she is kind of, as much as she's cursing him to think about her forever, I think it's also to some degree an act of empathy for him where it's like, you know, my whole thing now, you cannot get over me.

[01:35:40] If I'm still alive, it is going to destroy your life more actively. You're just going to completely throw everything away. That's a kind way of thinking about it. I do think in the same way where you're like, does he, does she love him?

[01:35:55] And the answer is in a way, right? I think the part of her that loves him is just like, I'm dooming him by staying alive. Yeah. Yes. Although she's not exactly going to make him feel fantastic by sand beaching. No, this is what I'm saying though.

[01:36:10] It's a double edged sword, but also like she's never going to feel the sense of like, I got away with it. Right? Right. Because he did. I really got ducked out of there. I just like the idea of sand beaching as a technique in like relationships.

[01:36:26] She's sand beached! Fucking sand beaches him every weekend. Three girlfriends in a row have all sand beached. And then it's two hours of where are you? Then we gotta dig, you know. I can never go anywhere without a shovel. Oh, very dramatic. Yeah. She buried that crow. Yeah.

[01:36:44] She buried that crow with a little bucket. Yes. She buried herself with a little bucket. She's not a psychopath, right? So it's not like she does not feel remorse. And I think especially knowing that she was figured out, even if she is never captured,

[01:37:03] even if she has never turned in, you know, even if the information is never caught by someone who would sort of close the case on her, she will forever be haunted by the fact that she was knowable, right? Both like in her person, but also in like,

[01:37:29] if it can be solved once, then how am I ever gonna think I'm gonna be able to live free of this? And then I think that's the other part, which is like she feels guilt. Yeah, it's like her taking all those photos

[01:37:40] off the wall to allow him to sleep because these pictures are screaming at him. Yes. But she's also taking away the evidence, but she's also, yeah. Right. She doesn't want him looking at these, but it's also, it's great complex character because we can't know her. No.

[01:38:01] We can't know why she did it really. No, no, and she doesn't wanna know herself. Right, she couldn't sit down and tell us really. No. Him knowing her too well scares her, but I think also it's just like, she is more honestly in touch with herself

[01:38:14] if only in the sense that like, they're both irrevocably broken by this, by this entire series of experiences. And she just does much like she has for the whole running time of the film. I don't care if it's the dramatic thing to do,

[01:38:29] if it's the thing that is justified and the grander course of how I see the events laid out, I guess I just gotta kill myself in the same way that she's like, I guess I gotta kill this guy. That's my read on it.

[01:38:41] I mean, we didn't touch on it too much, but I think her origins are playing into this as well. Her fleeing China, the way that she came over on a boat and it seemed like it was a really traumatic experience,

[01:38:57] that probably also led to her feeling pretty broken inside that whole sort of sequence of events. Yeah, but people have to make a tremendous amount of difficult decisions in order to survive. You either then just sort of shut yourself off,

[01:39:20] put all of it in a box and never think about it ever again, or you're gonna be haunted about it for the rest of your life. She says something like, I was a skeleton covered in feces or something. Like something really intense. Really intense. About the journey over.

[01:39:36] But she's just been in survival mode for so long, where you're like not even, she's just making calculated decisions based on what do I need to do to just stay alive, stay ahead, get my citizenship, all of this. And basically it's like,

[01:39:51] she's gotten to the point where it's done. She's kind of now set and settled. But also, she has been figured out and she is known. And that I think just becomes unbearable for her to live with. There's something about ownership in it too.

[01:40:09] Like there's something freeing about her being like, I'm gonna choose to go and to not be. Yeah, also decision to leave feels like a synonym for breaking up. I broke up with him. I made the decision to leave. You know? I mean certainly in abusive relationships

[01:40:31] that's always the language people use of like, I finally just made the decision to leave. Because it's the hardest thing to do. Right. You're always trying to put it on the other person to do it for you. Yeah, make the decision for you. Right. Exactly.

[01:40:42] Right, whether you're bored, whether it's painful, whether it's abusive. Sometimes you gotta push more than fuck around for nothing. Right, whether you're the problem or they're the problem or the whole thing's a problem or whatever it is. It's like that decision. I do think metaphorically this. Leave.

[01:40:56] I do think metaphorically this movie is sort of just about relationships, attraction, seduction, courtship. Going to the beach. Stagnancy, going to the beach. Sand beaching yourself. Yeah. Right, right, right, boring sex. You know, it's like she sand beaches herself literally

[01:41:13] but it's also just like she dumps him permanently in a way he will never get over as you said. Because she ultimately, why does she do that? Because it leaves her with the power. Ultimately, right? I like to go to the beach. Such a power hungry dude. Exactly.

[01:41:32] When they weren't trying to read into that metaphorically. Yeah. I'm always going to the beach. David loves going to the beach. He just like takes his car and he just drives to the beach in the middle of the day by himself. It takes his laptop. Really?

[01:41:44] Oh, this is real? He just writes shit on the beach. Sometimes. You ever seen someone sand beach themselves or? Just someone next to me like, don't mind me! I'm just digging a seven foot hole. And then sitting in it for two hours. Where is she? Ah!

[01:41:58] And I'm like, I'm going to move. David's typing up his review of Elemental while some detective breaks down. Big news. Ryan Seacrest will be the new host of Wheel of Fortune. Thank fucking God. Our long national nightmare is over. Thank God. Pat Sajak made the decision to leave.

[01:42:18] He sure did. He did? After how many years was it? Eight million? I'm going to guess close to 40. I mean, I don't know. Who's the co-host on the show? Isn't it Vanna White? Vanna White? Still? Vanna's going to still be going, right?

[01:42:32] I think it is still Vanna White. It's kind of rude to just not fucking let Vanna host. You know what? That's a fair point. You're fucking right. There was a point where they started to let her talk. Yeah. Remember that? Yeah, we slowly, it only took 40 years

[01:42:45] to get to that point where she's allowed to speak one word at a time. What does she do? She goes like ding, ding, ding, right? She used to turn the letters. But now it's all computerized. But now she just, yeah. She just kind of taps them.

[01:42:58] Hovers over them. Yeah. It's all a simulation. Real words up there anymore. Yeah, let Vanna do it. Maybe she doesn't want to do it. She made the decision to spin the wheel. She wants to be a contestant now? Yeah, maybe. She really wants to win.

[01:43:17] I've never watched Wheel of Fortune. That's a bad, never my favorite. Stop going to the beach and start going to the... You think I should stop going to the beach? Turn on my TV of time and watch it. Watch Jeopardy and then just unfortunately

[01:43:31] that show comes to an end. No, that's the thing. I would watch Jeopardy and then it'd be like Wheel of, and you'd be like click. Like, it's time to make dinner. No, that's when you turn it up. You get close. Some other facts about this movie,

[01:43:44] the craft of this movie. He uses a lot of old school filmmaking techniques here. Vintage lenses, fixed camera setups, natural lighting. He wanted to go a little back to what he called the traditional carpenter approach for this one because he's doing kind of an old fashioned vibe

[01:44:01] in his opinion. So he wanted it to be a little more restrained. I guess he means more restrained than the handmaiden. This is still a movie with some wild camera moves, right? Like, you know, like a chainmail glove. The production design of this movie

[01:44:16] is out of control so good. All the like crazy wallpaper and the mountains and all that shit. Trying to see if there's anything else like that's really important. They did put body mounts for the chase scenes onto the actors. The cameras are like on their shoulders.

[01:44:34] Yes, so they had to run. So they ran with a camera on their shoulder? Yes. That's wild. So he says that is one of the few like, you know, reverberant things. Is he currently miming out what that would be like? Because you had head on shoulders.

[01:44:46] I had head on shoulders. But no camera. I did have camera. Oh, you did have camera. I had camera on head. Because it's got to like map your face for the VFX. It's right here, like the mic. So camera on face, head on head, stilts on feet.

[01:45:00] Like how do you talk to anyone? You're like looking around them. There's a lot of cross time. There's like romance on that show, right? I had to make out with the camera. You have to, right? You have to, you know, have chemistry.

[01:45:14] I said this to you after I watched it, but like you basically have to do every type of acting on that show. Just because, yeah, yeah. No, but it's like, it swings so wildly around different things. And then all the technical difficulties on top of that. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:45:32] It was a lot. Yeah. It was a lot. This film premiered at the Cannes Film Festival. Park Won best director. In fact, he's won a prize at every Cannes Film Festival he's been at, except for the one with the handmaiden. Rude. Was a pretty big Korean hit.

[01:45:49] Made $15 million there. Was rolled out by Mubi in America, as we said. Was nominated, was submitted to the Oscars, but didn't win. Shortlisted. Correct. And it was shortlisted, right? Made the 10. It made the 10. But not the five. It's tough to make the 10.

[01:46:05] It's not as hard as it is to make David's five, but it is tough to make the 10. And obviously we are concluding our Park series here, but he does have The Sympathizer coming out sometime on HBO or Max or whatever the fuck it's called now. Yes.

[01:46:19] Fall maybe, right? Or early next year. He has an HBO series where Robert Downey Jr. plays multiple characters. Never heard of it. Looks pretty wild. It looks crazy. Yeah. And then he may finally make his long awaited The Axe,

[01:46:31] which is a film he's been trying to make for like 20 years. Okay. I don't know. When they ask him about his next project, he's kind of like, maybe that. Can I ask what the budget of this movie was? $1 billion. What? No, let me see.

[01:46:43] That's the most expensive film ever made. How does a movie like this get made? Well, because it's a CJ Entertainment film, which is sort of, the budget was $10 million. Oh, beautiful. And you know, Korea does have obviously a thriving film industry,

[01:46:56] but CJ Entertainment is kind of like the big boy. Sure. And yeah, they'll put up some cash for a film like this. Yeah. Like 10 million's like such a reasonable amount for a stunning, like such a lushly shot, beautiful movie.

[01:47:13] I could have told you 20 and you would have bought it because it's such a good looking movie. Yeah, for sure. Netsushi. Ugh, that alone. Lucho Dinero. That was five. Yeah, that was half the budget. Yeah. Do you want to play the box office game

[01:47:26] for the Korean or American release? I say let's do both. Okay, fine. All right, so this film came out in Korea. We're gonna play the box office game now. Yeah, I'm scared of this game. Don't be scared.

[01:47:38] I had to listen to Tatiana try to explain this to someone. Oh really? Yeah. You were listening to me? Yeah. It's this, it's a trivia game. No, it wasn't that. It was you were making me sound like I was Rain Man. Were you going through a tunnel?

[01:47:54] Yeah, yeah, I was on a phone. We were in a car and she was like, his friend like points at him and then he just starts saying numbers. You weren't explaining the way that made it sound dumb. You were explaining the way that made me sound

[01:48:07] like a lunatic. But that's how I experienced this game. Sometimes I will be like, yeah, it's like a thriller and you're like, you know, you just say that immediately. Domestic disturbance. Truly. Domestic disturbance. Okay, so this film came out. I mean, I appreciate actually someone sort of

[01:48:23] recognizing my experience of this game. I see you, I feel you. It feels like weird numbers and then them just being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. His friend says a weekend and then he says numbers. The weekend in Korea, Griffin, is July 27th.

[01:48:41] This is like Park Chan-wook's Big Willy weekend? Sorry, June 27th. Oh, okay. Sorry. And it's opening number two behind the biggest movie pretty much of 2022. An American film? Not including Avatar. Yes, an American film. What was the thing before Avatar? It was- The big movie of the summer.

[01:49:01] Yes, Top Gun Maverick. That's right. So all over the world, everyone's going crazy for Top Gun Maverick. And you know why? Because no country was the villain in that movie. That's true. What do you mean? Those bastards in their mountainous seaside country. Yes, from the country of-

[01:49:20] Super weapons. Helmet stand. No facia. I just remember some geographer was like, yeah, it's supposed to be a coastal nation but there's mountains 100 miles. There's nowhere on earth that's like, that would have a nuclear weapon or whatever. Anyway, number two decisionally. Sure, okay. Number three is a sequel.

[01:49:41] It's a science fiction, action horror Korean film. Science fiction, action horror. The director is Park Hoon Jung. Okay. Better known as a writer. He wrote I Saw the Devil. Okay. But he's now a director. You don't know this film, obviously. I don't know this film?

[01:49:56] You're telling me I don't know this film? No, I don't think so. Would I know the first film? No. No, then what is it then? It's called The Witch Part Two, The Other One. I think I could have guessed that. The other one. You do?

[01:50:07] I think I would have gotten to that title if I just started saying words. You would have gotten to The Witch Part Two, The Other One? The Witch Part Two, The Other One. Sequel to Which Part One, the subversion. The first one. Oh, okay. Yeah. The main one.

[01:50:22] I don't know. Something to do with witches. Okay. Number four, another Korean film with kind of a fun title. Which Part One, The Other Two. That's the joke I should have made go on. This is also a sequel. Yeah. Crime action comedy film. Okay. You know.

[01:50:41] A Korean film. A sequel to a film called The Outlaws. And this is called The Outlaws to The Other Four. Both of these films star the actor Ma Dong-seok, who we know as Don Lee. Yes. Who is in, you know, Triniternals. Yeah.

[01:50:56] But he's in many, he's a huge Korean star. Yes. So this is, you know, it's cops. Two Korean cops, they go to Vietnam in this one. Okay. There's some murders, they have to solve them. Okay. Highest performing South Korean release since the pandemic. Wow, what's it called?

[01:51:12] It's called The Roundup. Oh, so it's not two, it's a totally different title? No, apparently in Korea, the title is Crime City 2. Okay, well that's- But the American title is The Roundup. Crime City 2 is a pretty good title. I don't know man, it's a huge hit. Huge hit.

[01:51:28] Number five is a Pixar movie. So that would be Lightyear? Lightyear. Weird, huh? Did it do well there? I don't know. Okay. Okay, number five. Yeah. Are you number five? And is that movie based on the toy

[01:51:43] or is it based on the real man who the toy is based on? Have you seen Lightyear? I have not. It's really easy to explain. Really easy to avoid. Came with a really clean premise and then just communicated perfectly to the whole world. They've also gotten their top 10,

[01:51:57] they got Broker, the, you know, Oh sure. Hirakazu Koreda film, his first Korean language film. You got Jurassic World Dominion. You got a Pokemon movie. A Pokemon movie? There's so many of them. It doesn't, I'll find out which number it is for you.

[01:52:12] Do you not keep up with the Pokemon movies? No. You don't catch them all? I do not catch them all. David catches most things in the Pokemon universe. I enjoy the Pokemon games. Like the card game? No, the video game. It's a video game.

[01:52:28] Well, but it's also a card game. Yeah, you're right. It's also a card game. I did like the card game when I was a kid. I haven't played that in a while. Now he's grown up and he only plays the video games. Oh boy.

[01:52:38] I'm going to have to count. I don't know. One, two. Is this still Ash narrative? They just retired Ash, right? This looks like the 11th Pokemon film. Ash. I didn't know Ash retired. Ash is still involved. Ash and Brock. Yeah, he's in this one. Ash did finally retire.

[01:52:59] He turned 12 or whatever. Yeah, he's a sand beast. And also there's a Come on, Come On, Mike Mills movie. Is it opening in the top 10? It's not even opening, it's number 10. I love that movie. But also like 18 months later. Okay. Does anybody know that kid was British?

[01:53:18] I went to a screening where they did a Q&A afterwards and the kid felt like a bit. It's so disturbing because he's so believable. He's incredible. And he's talking like nonstop in that movie too, right? It's not like a- Like free ball. Like it feels like improvising.

[01:53:33] That feels like a performance where it's like, well, they wrote no dialogue for the kid. And then they just put him in there with Joaquin Phoenix. Right. And like, roll the camera now. Right. And Mike Mills was like, Keanu, Keanu, why am I saying Keanu? Joaquin.

[01:53:46] Was like, he would know Joaquin's lines and he would have to cue Joaquin. Yeah, incredibly good. What's his name? Woody Norman? Woody Norman is his name. And he's in a bunch of, he's working. That's interesting. I hear Woody Norman. I'm like, he grew up on a ranch?

[01:54:03] Yeah, true. It sounds like they put that kid out of Iowa or whatever. Yeah, he's in the last voyage of the Demeter. Oh, sure. The upcoming Dracula movie. There haven't been enough Dracula movies this year. I've been waiting for another Dracula picture.

[01:54:16] He's in this movie called Cobweb with Lizzie Caplan. Okay. It looks like a horror movie. He's good. And he's in the next Russo brothers movie, the Electric State. Okay, this kid's working. This kid's working. Yeah, he's booking. Apparently he was- Woody books.

[01:54:32] Apparently he played a character called Valentine in the fifties in a pole dark? Okay. Okay, do you want the American box office or are we done? All right, fine. Jesus Christ. Okay, this movie came out in October in America. Okay. October, 2022. Number one, big horror film.

[01:54:44] Number one, big horror film. But somewhat of a disappointment. In performance? In performance, especially critically. Halloween ends. That's right. Okay. Number two, a horror film that was a huge over performance. Smile. Smile. Smile. Did you see smile? Too scared.

[01:54:59] I watched the trailer and I couldn't stop thinking about it every time I went pee in the night. Like it's my worst nightmare. When you're peeing, you're just imagining a smiling person? It's something pulled directly from my brain, that movie, just someone walking in and smiling.

[01:55:15] You hate smiling. And then like about to kill ya. No, so you've just been talking to us about how you spent like six months with a fake smiling head attached to the top of your skull. Yeah, totally. Wait, that's where- Maybe you're haunted by your own smiling face

[01:55:27] painted green. Possibly. He just read me for filth, Griffith. Number three at the box office is a children's film. That's the weirdest face. I'm blind contour drawing. Is that supposed to be me? It's a blind contour drawing. It's gotta be fucked up.

[01:55:44] You don't look down at the page, you just draw. It is a good drawing. It looks cool. Yeah. It looks cool. It does. I'll try better. Okay, okay. Don't be self conscious. I'm gonna stay very still. Okay, David, what's number four at the box office? A children's film.

[01:55:58] Just be normal. I'm gonna be very normal. It was pretty much the only children's film at the box office the whole fall, so it kinda ate. Fuck, but it wasn't Puss in Boots because that comes out later. No, and it's one of those movies

[01:56:07] that is clearly absolute garbage, but you and others were sort of like, hmm, there's something to this one. I kinda liked it. Yes. You liked a performance in particular. I liked a performance in particular? Did I give it a blankie? You like trying to sound constipated?

[01:56:22] He's not like moving his mouth. He's trying not to move so that- So that the portrait is flattering. Come on, you gave it a blankie nomination. For a voice performance. No, for supporting actor. What, it's animated? Oh, oh, oh, it's Lyle Lyle Crockabout. It's Lyle Lyle Crockabout.

[01:56:37] Yeah, that movie sucks, but Javier Bardem is incredible in it. Really? Yes, incredible performance. Vocal performance? No, live action. Oh! Big ass mustache. A human man. Suspenders. You wanna see what he looks like? He plays like a failed circus entertainer basically. Wow. Yeah.

[01:56:54] And you zeroed in on this as- I watched it on a plane. He looks like this. Buddy! I love him. I also want that T-shirt very badly. Oh my God. Yep, and so he looks like he's got a big Florida gator on his T-shirt.

[01:57:08] He kind of looks like, I don't know, you know, Wario and Mario got smushed together. Yeah, like retired. Wario and Mario are so close, but there is like, but smushing them together is just a little- But I almost say you need to also throw in Luigi and Waluigi.

[01:57:27] Yeah, get them all together. He's the whole Mario family. Number four, the box office, a film we covered on this podcast, an excellent historical action epic. Rudely ignored by the Oscars. Woman King? The Woman King. Good movie. Good ass movie. And number five, film that was not rudely,

[01:57:50] historical epic that was not rudely ignored by the Oscars. Cause nobody liked it. Sucks Ass. Amsterdam. Apologies if anyone knows anyone in that movie in this room, because there's like a million people. I was the girl who died at the beginning. Oh, you were Taylor Swift?

[01:58:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amsterdam. Amsterdam. Which you've seen, I've never seen. Oh yeah, I saw Amsterdam. I took a trip to Amsterdam. There was a classic, I am a film critic. And there was a release from a studio with major actors from a major filmmaker of sorts.

[01:58:22] And I was just like- Made the decision to leave. I was in Sand Beach that day. You've also got Don't Worry Darling. Uh-huh. Normal, normal, normal, normal. No weird buzz around that one. Barbarian. Uh-huh. Oh, I saw that movie. Which is good. Yeah, I loved that movie. Mama.

[01:58:40] Baby. Yeah. Terrifier 2, the horror movie with the clown. The little clown that could tear up the box office. Bros. Bros? Bros. Oh, oh, okay. And hanging out in October at number 10, Top Gun. Top Gun Maverick, wow. Pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah, so that's the, all right,

[01:59:04] now do your fucking park rankings. Well, let me just say this. We're just, yeah, Tatiana's listening to all this garbage. Fine, I'll do the rankings. No, no, no, what do you want to say? You have yours. No, no, it's better to say this after the rankings, I think.

[01:59:15] Okay, here are my rankings of Park Chenwick films. Number one, Handmaiden. Number two, have you seen Handmaiden? I have, yes. Great. Number two, Thirst. Number three, Lady Vengeance. I went to the bathroom. You did. Number four, Decisional Leave. Number five, Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance. Number six, Old Boy.

[01:59:36] Seven, JSA. Eight, Stoker. Nine, I'm a Cyborg, but that's okay. And I like all of those movies. Yes. And then number 10, Trio. Number 11, and the other fucking, his first movie. The Moon is the Sun's Fart. Yeah, he made these two movies that nobody likes.

[01:59:52] Oh, that he doesn't like? He's like, don't watch them. Yeah, he sand beached them. Honestly, has tried. Yes. Number one, Handmaiden. Number two, Lady Vengeance. Number three, Decisional Leave. Number four, Stoker. Oh, Stoker's a higher for you. This is where I start doing, I think controversial rankings.

[02:00:13] Number five, Cyborg. Oh, you have that higher, sure. I love that movie. Number six, Thirst. Number seven, Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance. Number eight, Oldboy. People will lock me in a hotel room for 30 years for that ranking. Number nine, JSA. Okay. Much like you, I agree.

[02:00:36] Think all nine of those are good. Number 10, Trio. Yeah. Which I maintain is a little bit okay. Another controversial stance. Four out of 10. Number 11, The Moon is the Sun's... Yeah. Great. Here's what I was gonna say. I led with, I think, making Todd feel uncomfortable, self-conscious

[02:01:00] when I foregrounded your Emmy win. There's a better honorific to throw out here because you're in a very select category. We do our own award show at the end of every year and you were nominated by David Sims. I think you won. Pretty sure you were stronger.

[02:01:21] For stranger. For stranger. And I did say it like that, which was weird. Yeah. It's in the most funny... Yeah, no. Whoa, no way. You're incredible in that movie. You were David's best supporting actor pick that one. Actress pick. I was David Gordon Green's best supporting actor

[02:01:35] in that movie. He bet it all on you. He was great. Is he great? Yeah, and what he did for that film was he said, I'm not gonna work with, he usually works with the same crew, people he's known forever.

[02:01:48] And he made a concerted effort to pick people he'd never worked with before. So the crew was new to him. You had to do an accent. He tried to take himself. It's one of the hardest accents in terms of people being mean about doing that accent. So hard.

[02:02:00] Thankfully, mine was a soft, soft version of it. I feel like, well, you did a good job. I had to run. I had to run in that movie. A lot of running. Yeah, absolutely. I'm trying to learn to run. You were born to run. Maybe.

[02:02:14] I don't know why I said that. Oh. That was a classic. I said this on the, we're at TIFF where I go to Toronto and I see, Toronto, a city you know, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm familiar. Okay. Never heard of it. And you're packing in the movies.

[02:02:28] I'm at the film festival. I'm watching a million. And I was like, do I wanna see the fucking marathon bombing movie? It's gonna be a bummer. It was like nine in the morning. And I walked in last minute and I sat down

[02:02:39] and that movie, I love that movie. Oh, wow. It made me, I've seen it four times. No way. Which is insane for a movie about a guy who got his legs blown off. God bless him. Yeah. I'm like, look, not to belittle,

[02:02:50] how many people have won an Emmy? Tons. Tons. Tons. Seven people have officially won a David in that category. Wait, is there a little statue? Every, yeah, sure. I'll get one. Yeah, get me. I'll put that one on the shelf. That next to my Olympic medal.

[02:03:07] That's just my smiling face. Yes. As a mask. Dead-eyed, yeah. Completely dead. Thank you for bringing that up, Griffin. We can do that. That's not embarrassing at all. We can print your head 3D scanned. Cool, that sounds chill.

[02:03:20] Then we print your head, slap it on a fucking little mount. That's first place. I think you should. It's a limited club people we have nominated or given our fake awards to. Who've been on our show. Who've been on our show.

[02:03:34] It rarely happens where that line is crossed. No one should be allowed on the show. I agree, that's why I'm calling attention to it. Never again. Embarrassing. I'm double honored. Yeah, well, I also voted for you at the New York Film Critics Circle,

[02:03:46] which is a real awards organization. For Stranger as well. Yeah, but you got your ass kicked by whoever that was. Oh, by anybody else. By literally everyone. But your name was read aloud. That's cool. Did they pronounce it correctly? That's a great question and my guess is no.

[02:04:05] My guess is, I think it was David Epfelstein was the chair that year and he was not that great with pronouncing. Sure, we got a Titania. There was the one year. Titania, do you get that a lot? Yes. Titania, like sort of like the Shakespeare character?

[02:04:17] Yeah, I think people just don't want to say it right. It feels like a choice. Wait, am I saying it wrong? Tatiana. Tatiana. Yeah. You don't wanna put the H in. Tatiana. No, like Tatiana. You know, like, oh, oh. You know, sort of put a shirt.

[02:04:34] Why do people always say Tatiana? Tatiana. Yeah. Oh my God, I had some incredible. Oh, there was a year, right, the musician and actress Jungle Pussy. Yes. Is in the film. Support the Girls. Support the Girls. Yes, and she got a bunch of supporting actress nominations

[02:04:51] at the Critics Circle that year. The votes. Yes, the votes. And we just read them out of a hat. And so Eric Cohn was the, and he's just Jungle Pussy, Jungle Pussy. It was just very funny. You know, big, so Alice and Janney, Jungle Pussy.

[02:05:03] You know, like, God bless her. I mean, she's amazing in that way. Yeah. Anyway. Oh, what are we doing next? That's the only thing left we have to announce. That's the last order of business. Isn't it? Yeah. This is the end of our mini series, Tatiana.

[02:05:17] So we have to tell people what director we're covering after this one. And you already kind of revealed it. John Cassidy. You did. Yes, it's good. Well, we'll do a one. Yes, I'm seizing the moment. I'm holding the show hostage. No, no, as you said,

[02:05:31] because you rewatched it recently, your husband will be a guest very soon. We are doing the films of David Fincher, who has a new movie coming out this fall. We want to sync up with that. Yes, he has a new film out, the killer.

[02:05:44] We couldn't let the doughboys cover every single Fincher movie before us. Exactly. Yeah. And your sainted husband will be on one of those episodes. That's why you were watching the game. My sainted husband. Sainted husband. Is he not sainted? He's canonized, yes. For random. Yeah.

[02:06:02] Not to spoil who's gonna be on the game, but whatever. David Fincher, the curious cast of Benjamin, the curious pod of Benjamin, but cast. That's what we've decided on. Yeah, you know what drives me crazy? Crazy fans love to try to suss out based on anything and everything,

[02:06:20] what we're covering ahead, months ahead. And they've like gamed out the Fincher thing. And they just keep on being like, confirmed, confirmed, confirmed. We figured it out. And then someone yesterday on Reddit fucking said, they're probably gonna call it the curious pod of Benjamin, but cast, right?

[02:06:37] No way. God damn it, these fuckers. A day before it gets a say on Mike. Yeah. Well, whatever. They're not gonna hear this episode for three more months. No. They'll probably figure out your social security number by then. Yeah. All right, we're done. All sand beached me.

[02:06:52] Tess, is there anything you wanna plug? I just finished a play. Yes. And I hope that you all saw it. I saw it and I had great time. I thought it was- That's great. A lot of fun and you were excellent in it. And unfortunately, it is closing

[02:07:03] the day after this episode comes out. Get your tics now, guys. Get in. It's your last chance. Yeah. You've gotten to work with Laurie Metcalf for the last couple months. She's like one of the best living actors, in my opinion. And Paul Sparks. Who's incredible in the show.

[02:07:16] Yeah. Oh, is he cool? So cool. It'd be funny going, that sucks. Fucking sucks. Bad person, terrible actor. That's right. No, no, I love him. He's wonderful. Yeah, he's really great. But yeah, what are you doing next? Or is this secret? Probably still striking. Yeah.

[02:07:32] That's up in the air, of course. We don't know. We don't know. Thank you so much for being on. Thanks for having me. I loved it. Hey, you're the best. You guys are the best. And thank- You are the best. You are the best. I'm okay. David's mid.

[02:07:46] Pretty mid. Yeah, I think David's actually a little cringe. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media, helping to produce the show. Thank you to Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our artwork.

[02:08:00] Thank you to Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song. JJ Birch for our research, Alex Barron, AJ McKeon for our editing. We're going straight into Alien 3 next week. Is that correct? That is correct. After having to do a couple new releases. Why not?

[02:08:14] And there'll be more towards the end of the year, including the new Fincher. But we're just going straight in, no palate cleanser. But over on Patreon, we are doing, are we onto Brosnan Bond at this point? Are we still finishing up the oceans? Have I ruined a thing?

[02:08:31] Yeah, well we've announced it. Okay. So Brosnan Bond next. Brosnan Bond. It's time for Bond again. Coming up next is, yeah, whatever. It's all good. Tell me, what's happening next? It's the Alien versus Predators episode. We announced it. Well that sounds fun.

[02:08:45] And I'm gonna say it again because we're doing Alien 3. We're gonna cover the two Alien versus Predators. There you go. One of them is really fun and one of them is the worst fucking movie in the world. Yeah, fun. Again, apologies if you know anyone in the movie.

[02:08:55] Tatiana directed it. You know, Stephen Pasquale is in it. I love him so much. Yeah. He's so good. Isn't the actress from Half Nelson's in it too? I think she's in a different one. I know who you're talking about. She's in Alien versus Predator. But maybe I'm wrong.

[02:09:16] Oh no, she is uncredited. Weird. Okay. So tune in for that. Yep. You can go to BlankJayPod.com for links to all sorts of nerdy shit including our Patreon merch. And as always, life isn't always a day at the sand beach.