Detroit with Black Men Can’t Jump In Hollywood

[00:00:01] Black Check with Griffin and David Jonathan Marilak James the third Rob Billigate Diggity Diggity Diggity Don't know what to say or to express All you need to know is that the name of the show is Black Men Cant Jump In Hollywood, Blank Check

[00:00:21] I need you to survive the podcast! What is that? John Boyega says that at one point. Okay, alright, sure. Great, I agree with that. We were struggling. What does he need to survive? The Night The Night, yeah I remember that. It's a trailer one.

[00:00:36] There are only four quotes on the Detroit IMDb quotes page and the other three come from the racist cop. Will Poulter. Right, and can not be rewarded into funny podcast openings. I might have somebody toss on him. Wait till we get there!

[00:00:51] This is a whole movie of thoughts. Hello everybody my name is Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. And this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. We are hashtag the two friends. And this is in terms of the number of people on Mike the biggest episode we've ever done.

[00:01:07] Yeah, except for the live revenge of the Sith one I guess but that was all people were dropping by. This is the most that we're all on Mike at the same time the whole time. The Rugrats are meeting the Wildthorn Berries.

[00:01:19] The Jet Shrug, the Jett and the Flintstones. What else we got? What are some good quotes? The Ninja Turtles when they met the Pyranes. Yeah, yeah. When friends and Matt about you didn't they cross over? Well, they had Ursula. When Erkl went to Full House.

[00:01:35] Yes, when the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles met the Turtles from different time periods. Yeah, sure. So you guys from, wait, I don't know. This isn't a time travel. Well, I guess the Jett Sims was time travel. That was time travel. It was bringing two factions. It's bringing factions.

[00:01:50] Exactly right. You got factions going here. Two friends are meeting three friends today. This is one of our favorite movie podcasts that we invoke a lot. We have had all three of these men on as guests separately. That's right.

[00:02:07] And people were happy, but they said, OK, but when are you going to do the full on? Cross over. This is a crossover. When are you going to blast our eardrums with too much yelling? Yeah. From a combination of six irritable people.

[00:02:24] Welcome to Black Man, Can't Jump in Hollywood. I don't want to do it for this one. James. Yeah, you're right. I don't want to do it for this. You're right about that. You're right. We're just... Hello, hello. Hi, I'm about... What is it?

[00:02:41] That's the only thing that I could potentially do. He's doing a Detroiters song. What was the name of the group? Yeah, what was the group? The Dramatics. The real group. The real group. Great name. So this is Blank Check meets Black Man, Can't Jump in Hollywood.

[00:02:55] Was there a cool name? I think I think of a cool name. Blank Man, Can't Check in Hollywood. Sure. Done. Done. We did it. It's better than Black Check. I can't do that. Black Check, Can't Jump in Hollywood. No, it's right. Yeah, it does.

[00:03:17] You could have called your podcast that. That makes sense. This is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes the check's clear and sometimes they bounce. Maybe.

[00:03:32] Case in point. Case in point. This is a bouncer. This is a big bouncer from a woman who seemed to be on a real can't miss role. She seemed to have, after a real rocky career of ups and downs, she had found her footing

[00:03:48] and had become a full force, canonical major American filmmaker. She's been on the way, got a, yeah, what's this going to be? And we've done a couple mini series now in a row where the people kind of get their groove back

[00:04:02] or even following up with someone like Shyamalan a year or two later. Sure. And he rebounds. They finally figured it out. Right. They pulled out of the tailspin. When we decided to do a Catherine Bigelow mini series, we thought the run was going to continue. That's true.

[00:04:17] We decided to do this before this movie came out. Right. And we were like, oh yeah, she's got this big movie coming out in the summer. That'll be a good thing to peg it to. Right.

[00:04:25] And now it's a real bummer of a way to end the movie because it's a movie that is very frustrating on a number of levels and also just on release people were like, nope. And then that was wildly unsuccessful.

[00:04:41] And it leaves a big question mark as to where her career is going to go next. If she's going to stay in this zone and try to correct or if she's going to take another swing because she's certainly someone who's shifted in terms of styles and genres before.

[00:04:52] Sure. When we were talking about Detroit and we have of course... And the mini series is Pond19, the window cast. The mini series is Pond19, the window cast. And we have John Braylock, James III and Jerome Milligan here on the show tonight.

[00:05:05] I just clearly want to establish my voice for the listener. It's the one that sounds less irritated but also... I haven't done anything yet. I'm just saying like it's smooth. It's the rational... Are you going to just say what our podcast is?

[00:05:21] Are you going to do that intro? Oh yeah. Just for those who don't know, Black Men Can't Jump, we review films starring leading black actors and we talk about them in the context of race in Hollywood. So this would fall under... This falls under.

[00:05:36] You guys hadn't done this movie. But we hadn't done this movie. Well, any reason? Honestly, I fought very hard against it. So much so that when this came up, this cross-lover so, I low key forgot the movie

[00:05:46] until I had to start looking for it and my anger for it instantly came back. Yeah. This is... I feel like this is the kind of movie you always are railing against on your podcast. Oh, the thing is, I can't wait to talk about it. Yeah.

[00:06:00] This movie literally ruined the first half of my morning, but I went on a walk, got to center myself and now I feel calm. All right. See, John thought I was going to yell when he did. No, no, no.

[00:06:09] I rode up in the elevator with James and he was like, I just finished it. I finished it and then walked straight here. So, and I sort of basically said like, sorry. The last movie she did before this was Zero Dark Thirty. Correct.

[00:06:23] That was like a long period of time. That was five years ago. Right? Four years ago. Yeah. Yeah. 2012, four, five years ago. Five years ago. Yeah. And there was a weird series of things she almost did.

[00:06:33] I mean, I don't think it was an issue of her not being able to get a movie made. I think it was her being indecisive about what she wanted to do. Well, because it was that movie Triple Frontier. Right. Which is now being made by someone else.

[00:06:43] It was JC Chandor, but he might have dropped out. They keep on switching the cast around. She announced right after Zero Dark Thirty, which was wildly successful. Controversial, but made a ton of money. Controversial. But it made money and it got Oscar nominations and you know.

[00:06:56] She won for that one, right? She won for her locker. But the other big thing is Zero Dark Thirty is financed by Anna Perna. Uh-huh. And Megan Ellison who's got endless cash flow, right? Yep. Says like, I love Catherine Bigelow.

[00:07:10] She's like, I want to make movies that aren't like studio crap. I want to make like movies that are important, blah, blah, blah. But I think she's particularly proud of Zero Dark Thirty. It was the most successful movie they had. Yeah. And everyone was like, it'll never work.

[00:07:23] Right. Like right. And it was a full on like blockbuster. And so I think she's got a real blank check here. Megan Ellison will bankroll whatever she wants to make. She almost does Triple Frontier.

[00:07:34] I think the cast was supposed to be Johnny Depp, Tom Hanks and Will Smith. At one point. At one point. It's in pre-production now. I'm looking at it. Do you, J.C. Shandor, you're right. Mahershala? Uh, Mahershala, except now he's on the IMDb.

[00:07:47] I feel like he was announced. You announced at one point it was going to be Mahershala and the two Afflechs. No Afflechs. Right now the cast is Pedro Pascal, Charlie Hunnam, Mark Wahlberg, Garrett Headland. That's a weird one. Wow really?

[00:07:59] But I think Mahershala is definitely supposed to be Anna. I know he's now in True Detective. She should have had a blank check after a point break. I mean, because let's think about it. Well she did. She did. Oh, Strange Days. Strange Days.

[00:08:10] That's what Strange Days went for. Which is the movie she made right after it, which James Cameron, her ex-husband, had this crazy deal at Fox off a Terminator 2 where they were like, we'll give you $600 million to make however many movies you want. And he's like, cool.

[00:08:22] I'm going to take $70 million to make True Lies. We don't have to re-explain Strange Days. We don't have time for that. Come on. But there's a lot overlap between Strange Days and Detroit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Except Strange Days is a movie about like police brutality.

[00:08:36] It's a movie about like... It's a movie made me wake of the LA riots. Right. It's a movie about like an anxious city becoming violent. But it's not about a real incident. And it's also a sci-fi movie. It's a sci-fi movie and it has, yeah, I don't know.

[00:08:50] It has a big cast. Oh, I remember this. But it bombs really hard. And that was a check bounce. Took her while to recover from that. Right. Yeah, yeah. So she almost says Triple Frontier. She says it was a show at HBO that doesn't go.

[00:09:04] There are two other movies, the Beau Bergdahl movie, which became Serial Season 2. Right, which turns into Serial Season 2. Which is all research. Which is so weird. That's because it's Mark Boll, her screenwriting collaborator who is working on these things with her.

[00:09:17] But it's a thing that sometimes happens when people have this much momentum is they become a little paralyzed by committing to one thing. Sure, because it always has to be great. Right. You can't fail. Exactly. And it's a lot of research that's been done on this. On Detroit.

[00:09:35] But for a long time, no one really knew anything about it. They just said, okay, it's a movie about the Detroit riots. It's her and Boll. Yeah. And then cast was starting to come out. Boyega was announced.

[00:09:43] Everyone assumed Boyega was the lead because he was hot off a Star Wars. This is true. But people didn't know the title. They didn't know the plot. They didn't know the scope of the story until the trailer started coming out in the summer.

[00:09:55] And very quickly people were like, ehhhhh. So it's like it doesn't need to be called Detroit. Okay. Thank you. Calling it Detroit is a- Why did you call it Detroit?

[00:10:04] Well, I think one problem they have is there's the book called I need to find- I want to find the exact title. But isn't the book solely about the actual hotel? Yes, but it's called The Algiers Motel incident. They do not own the rights to that book.

[00:10:17] Okay, interesting. John Hersey refused to sell the rights. So they couldn't call it Algiers Motel or anything like that. I think that was their one of their roadblocks. Now of course, you might be thinking like, I'm going to make a movie about the Algiers Motel incident.

[00:10:30] Huh? They want somebody to write the book. Maybe I shouldn't make the movie. Right. Like, oh maybe this is a bad idea. Right. Because this book is like- the book apparently is written by a white guy.

[00:10:38] But the thing about it is that apparently it's like one of the most accurate and like- Right. Thoroughly researched. But respected conversations about race. They weren't allowed to use it if that makes sense.

[00:10:48] Which is crazy because I'm thinking like if you have this book that's respected about this incident that actually talks about race and the guy sees a problem maybe with your script or your movie

[00:10:57] maybe you should listen to the dude who like black and white and people from Detroit actually valued. Right. Okay. Wait, what was the reason? Was there a stated reason why he didn't want- I'm going to find a few because I think there is one.

[00:11:10] But I agree with you. I made this point on our Lincoln episode and David said I was really petty for saying that. But I think it hurts that movie that it's called Lincoln because it's not about Abraham Lincoln. It's about the passing of that amendment.

[00:11:21] And I similarly think like Lena Dunham got fucked over by calling that show girls because some people were like this is a show about all girls. You know? I felt like she was constantly asked to represent everything.

[00:11:33] That's not the only problem with this movie but this movie is not about Detroit. It is. Not about the Detroit ride. Not even a little bit. I mean really it's not one specific incident. Yeah. The trailer made it seem like it was about the Detroit ride.

[00:11:44] The posters are the streets. Yes. And the way it was sold, right, because the way it was sold was like this needs to be told and it's all these like sort of vague posters just of the city and the streets.

[00:11:54] And you have John Boeiger saying survive the night which makes it feel like it's going to be an on the ground. Like this is what it felt like to be in the middle of this. And then it's just a movie about this one incident.

[00:12:03] I think my single biggest issue with this movie is I think it's precisely the wrong size. I think it's both like too big and too small. Like it kind of needed to pick a lane and either be this like, aside from the

[00:12:17] problem that she probably wasn't the person to tell the story, right? But like it either need to be a large tapestry of like this is explaining this entire circumstance and showing a lot of different characters over a period of time

[00:12:28] or need to be like just in the motel. And she's kind of trying to do both a little bit. Like the central 80 minutes of the movie is just the motel and then she tries to put some context at the top and some closure at the end that doesn't

[00:12:41] really go down while. The closure at the end I think really hurts. That cool man. I had to pause it and get up at the closure part. You got my man just and again, I know he first off, I need to know what kind of

[00:12:52] movie she was trying to make. Was it a horror movie? For instance, like if you were going to make a horror movie, then like you should have just stuck down. That middle chunk is a horror movie. It is.

[00:13:00] But the thing is I couldn't tell if that was the point get out was that, you know what I'm saying? Like get out made a horror movie and they set it up like a horror movie where this movie is not documentary style horror movie or whatever. Sure.

[00:13:13] I would have issues with the movie, but I still I think the movie would be 30% better if she just made a movie that never left the Algiers. Yeah. You know, and it was that simple for her. She was like, I just want to do ratcheting tension.

[00:13:24] I want to do a story that's a microcosm of what's going on. I still don't think she would have really worked, but it would have been much better. People would have been just as angry about the movie though because

[00:13:33] like a lot of people walk out of the less angry still angry because people were so mad about like why are you making me watch this? Yeah. Is your point that the Algiers Motel and Snub was bad because that's not

[00:13:42] really a controversial or new thing to bring to the table? I mean, I went so I when I saw this movie there was a talk back with her and a lot of this I want to hear about. Interesting. Yeah.

[00:13:56] I mean, well, you know, it was one of those talk backs where because it was like, you know, union actors and union writers and was like a SAG screener. Yeah. Actually, it might have been a DGA screening to be honest, but they were like, we're on 54th screen.

[00:14:13] DGA John. DGA John. Everyone just literally was like, yeah, look at you. To be fair, to be fair, I deserve all of that. That's a nice shirt you're wearing, Brett. I want to hear about this. This is the beauty of having five, six people on time. It's good.

[00:14:33] It's like we're all laughing. It's a nice like room tone. Go away. But because there are no tough, they were all softball questions given to her. How many days did it take to shoot? Was there a lot of improv? The questions that everyone answered every.

[00:14:49] But like her continued stated reason and the actor stated reason for doing the project was like this story needed to be told and it's so relevant to what's happening today. You know, essentially I took from that. People need to know when police, when we talk about police

[00:15:10] brutality, it's a real thing and perhaps the only way for people to really understand that is for them to be put in that situation and literally empathize with the people who are going through horrific police brutality and then go, Oh wow, I get it now.

[00:15:24] I get the mistrust of police. I get this. I get that. In my mind, I think that's what she was going for. This movie has a lot of I mean, how do we do this? Because the thing is like, it's like the initial.

[00:15:35] I guess my initial problem with this movie is that I always bring up sometimes like who's the leader of this movie? That's a great question. The nominal lead is algae Smith, right? And I think is I would never have been thought that he

[00:15:50] would have been the lead until watching the end of the movie, seeing him go to church. Yeah. To me, the person who has won the most screen time, who legit you see his mind playing with what your saying right now.

[00:16:01] The racist cop is the leader of the movie. Will Pultz, who's the lead of this movie? You see him at the beginning. He's giving the most backstory. He's giving the most closure. I agree with this. He's the leader of the movie. A certain point.

[00:16:14] I had that realization for 40 minutes and I was like, what the fuck is she doing? Why is he getting the most screen time? And also it's like, am I supposed to feel bad when he's like, Oh, we're not actually killing him. We're not doing like, wait, wait,

[00:16:25] you giving shit at a certain point? I was so baffled about, also if he's going to be lead, what are you saying about him? Are you saying he's a leveled multi-layered racist? Right. Like are we defending the racism? I don't think she is, but I think it's just

[00:16:38] what you're saying. The amount of time you give him, the more she's letting us think about him. He has layers. I mean, which sucks. I've been saying this the whole podcast, the whole mini series, like especially the Hurt Locker and Zero Dark Third.

[00:16:51] She's like, I'm giving you, you bring yourself to this, right? I'm giving you what happened. You can project what you want onto it. I feel like she has this very removed perspective and it really hurts her in this movie. Well, especially in the, yeah.

[00:17:04] I'm going to say, yeah, my problem with this, the idea of a removed perspective is like, it's inherently a lie. Right. You cannot have a removed perspective, especially with Zero Dark 30. I mean, like that, the idea of like, this is exactly how it went down. It's like, no.

[00:17:21] But I also think Zero Dark 30 is like this kind of like messy gray area story where it's like, okay, this thing that we were all very invested in, this thing that was seen as a great victory when we did it, the means to how

[00:17:31] we got to that point are kind of murky. But this story is like, no, this sucks. Right. This is bad. Like there's no kind of gray area about like, but wait a second. And also they use certain elements because

[00:17:43] like when this movie first came out and I remember when John went to that screen and I like started googling it and started looking stuff up and and they do have that, that in-card at the end of the movie saying like some of the facts

[00:17:53] people really don't know, like some things they exaggerated, which I guess I respect. But for instance, another thing that bothered me is that they had EZE. I'm going to call it EZE. Jason Mitchell. Guys, EZE. Okay. EZE. EZE is in the movie for somebody.

[00:18:09] Could be an Oscar in this movie. I mean, EZE should have got Oscar animation last time but I'm going to leave that alone. Yeah, thousand first. Like, definitely should have got it. But the thing about the gun, right? So the thing about the gun, depending on who

[00:18:20] you ask about the gun and whether the gun was there, like the gun was never found, is that a lot of people say the gun never existed, period. Sure. So a lot of people say the gun just didn't exist.

[00:18:28] So for including her and Stephen is a bit of editorial that, yeah, that also bothered me because what you do is it's like you show this black dude shooting this gun at the cop, whether the gun was real or not.

[00:18:37] And they say in the movie the gun was the toy gun but he's doing this aggressive act which almost could say, oh, he is the reason that they came here in the first place almost putting the blame on them. Which is the thing they say about black people

[00:18:48] all the time. It's like, oh, what did you say back? What did you do to provoke me? What did you do to let this happen? I didn't know that. I didn't know that the gun was something that like, it's still a question today. They legit never found it.

[00:19:00] And that being said, can I just fuck this movie? Oh wow, James! No, because that was the thing that upset me the most was like how, what's the cock and bull, what's the term? Yeah, well, sure. He was shooting. Yeah, yeah. When he's like just shooting.

[00:19:20] Well, that scene is so peculiar. Because we don't know who this guy is. He just walks in. Right. And like, and so if that is a question to show it feels like it's hurt. That's how it's going to do harm to me.

[00:19:35] It's that thing to me is like, oh, and again the moment I saw him with that gun I was like, oh, if he shoots once, it's a problem. Okay, he's only going to shoot once. They're literally shot to him just like popping off with this gun.

[00:19:47] And I'm like you're literally putting blame on them with this shot. Like it's Keanu at the beginning of Point Break. Like it's him just like right. It is, it's like just doing it. And like so now basically everything that happens from this point because

[00:19:56] what you do is you have his black friend say, hey, if you do this, they're going to come kill us. So you have it set out loud and then you have a make a choice to keep popping these guns off. And then after that the whole movie

[00:20:07] the racist cop saying where is this gun? Everything that happens to them is about this gun. That scene essentially makes the movie Hellraiser. Like if you open this box pin it's going to come out. Yeah. And then he does it. Like it weirdly makes the situation less sympathetic.

[00:20:21] It does. Because not fully but like in a way that's like she shouldn't be doing anything to take away from the horror of these circumstances. Yeah. And I really liked when the gun was first introduced and he's like this is I'm going to show you white privilege,

[00:20:35] you know? And he's like playing that game. Like I really like that scene. I mean he's a good fucking actor. But then like the next scene is just like oh. But there are also there are tons of movies that I think are good

[00:20:49] that deal with true life stories where we don't know all the details and they own the mystery and they do not try to dramatize the things we don't know. They make a story intention around that's something like Zodiac where they can't depict the things.

[00:21:01] Right, that's what Zodiac is about. Right. But Mark Boll is not about that. Sure. But you could have made a movie if they all knew we don't know exactly what happened in that first room. Where we're not seeing what's in that. Maybe we hear some noise.

[00:21:14] Starts after that. Whatever. The police come in and they go what happened? Where was the gun? And you play into the mystery of no one in this room knows what actually happened. Can I give you a hint? We don't know what actually happened. Sure.

[00:21:26] So like for instance one of things that happened after this incident is that a church in Detroit had their own trial once all the white guys got off. Right. And it was like this big civil rights thing and it was just people from all over and they

[00:21:36] kind of held like their own mock trial of like with real facts, with real issues and they found the guys guilty. Right. To me it's like if you want it to really show what happened and maybe have flashbacks, you do something like that. That's to frame it around.

[00:21:47] Yeah, just frame it around. And this thing we actually go back and see different things and like the white girls that were there who talked about it see like how people viewed it but don't just show me this crazy horror scene. Right. And also the moment and the

[00:21:57] thing that bothered me the most is that before in the heart movie style when we see the players. When we see them at the party. When it comes to content house movie. Yeah, we see them. We see the two white girls who fucked the black dudes

[00:22:08] and we know this is now going to be a problem. So we're going to see the white girls who fucked the black dudes and we know this is now going to be a problem. Right. We know the fact that like this one dude, Jimmy likes this one girl.

[00:22:18] They have a connection. This is now an issue. She's planting seeds. But I mean that's the thing you see that's the thing about the movie. It's like she wants the tension to be building because she wants you to go. Oh no, I don't know if he

[00:22:28] should be firing that toy gun like I shit, you know, like and she I mean I'm saying she she she like it's like only her. Mark Ball wrote the screenplay right but like fuck I'm losing my train of thought here in the room while you're running around.

[00:22:39] And then we get into the question and I call the elephant in the room while you're regaining your train of thought. Yeah, I just want to point out quickly this is the only time in history that Jorah has been made angry by a swirl being included. Wow, wow.

[00:22:50] Wow, your history. Wow, your history. Wow, your history. Right. Oh my God, I didn't even think about it. First off do we we do see them kiss right? Yeah, yeah. You see them make out. But it's so interesting about that swirl is that

[00:23:02] is that like one this is solely about race but it's also a thing of the it's the thing of like that hatred that these white cops felt the moment they saw those white girls in that room. Right. I think in all honesty and

[00:23:14] this is this may be my theory I think in all honesty and it's not to take away from that situation but if they would have not been there if you just want to saw the white girls I think this situation for those black men may have been different.

[00:23:25] I agree. I think the movie thinks that yeah. Yeah, I mean I guess what I was trying to say was the movie wants you and maybe this is part of the problem to think like hey man even if they fucked up by shooting the toy gun they

[00:23:38] don't deserve it or what right like this shouldn't happen but already you're in this like tricky gray area where like you guys are saying where it's like in the same thing where you have different kinds of racist cops where it's like oh I think that

[00:23:50] cops dumber than that cop yeah that cops more racist than that cop where immediately you're putting people on different levels sure and like two of the cops are like yeah maybe there only like 75% racist right and then of course later we see a cop

[00:24:04] who's like oh you fucking racist or we're seeing this cop who would do this to someone and like everything you do is so loaded like you know like even if you have maybe some story intention with it I'll tell you my least favorite scene movie

[00:24:18] was the scene that started making me feel really angry and it was when I was starting to realize like oh shit will polters the lead of this movie that's a good cop when he shoots the guy in the back right and then he goes into his like his

[00:24:30] chief's office and the chief essentially gives him a speech where he's like this is your last warning if you keep being racist on the street he's like I'm pretty sure you just shot a guy for no reason on the streets so

[00:24:42] I got my eye on you like that's his they like present this hero police chief who's like I know exactly what's going on racism is bad you better stop it no good very bad don't do it but also get back out there and also there's that scene

[00:24:56] right early on where like the tank like shoots out a window yeah and you're like what happened there wait a second and there's no further explanation of it and it feels like almost just meant to wrap don't we see a kid looking out

[00:25:08] that way we see a kid looking out the window they shoot the window and you're like did something happen there is low just a guy from a tank is this something that's inciting things but they don't come back to it during the last like a

[00:25:19] young a young black girl was killed but they know so fascinated about even I'm happy what up the good police sergeant whatever the reason I knew something was off is that as he's describing everybody hates Chris everybody hates Chris he's like I learn William

[00:25:32] this way he's only a Tyler James yes he's the one who gets shot body hates sorry he's one who gets shot in the back right but as he describes the guy who gets shot and he was everybody is Chris I mean they were right everybody hated everybody

[00:25:44] in the back the sergeant literally describes him as oh yeah it was the only shooting where a guy leaked out under a car so like you really just threw away the fact that this guy what I don't know if he's dead yet but I know he

[00:25:59] was found bleeding under a car and like you're just saying it and passing like it's not a big deal which speaks to this movie giving you like eight minutes of really intense riding on the streets that are essentially just there to serve as window

[00:26:10] dressing for the story she wants to tell the problem if you get if you're making a movie about it that's fine but right instead it just sort of all you show where the black people riding you see this one incident right with the black cop going in

[00:26:21] undercover and infiltrating first scene right and then immediately things go from like zero to six million with rides in the street without actually presenting a sort of any sort of understanding as to how these things escalate that there was so much escalation before this moment simmering

[00:26:38] under the surface like you could like do the right thing spends two hours setting up the animated right two hours end up right there is the introduction I forgot about oh yeah the quick history lesson this is my big problem with history lesson I think

[00:26:52] that I can give it as a whole and I and I will say this is this is just my theory personally after working at places like I worked at MTV news right John and James know how much I hated it and I think

[00:27:01] the problem I have sometimes is that the woke white person thinks they may know a little bit better and they may use like oh my friend or my coworker who is a black person like told me it's okay so I know she didn't write this

[00:27:13] movie but the problem with this movie is that there's nuances missing like when Steven Spielberg did the color purple he knew what he like the thing is it was so much pressure he was so like surrounded by black people who were questioning everything like like everything

[00:27:28] is like this is make sense why are you doing that which is why that movie has little nuances that are interested in like how does Steven Spielberg know to do this because it wasn't him just saying it you know like he had help whereas in this movie I

[00:27:38] don't know if she had the help that she needed to get this done like you would have never you would have never added this quick scene of which people believe this start to Detroit rise the speak easy people believe that happened but all you

[00:27:51] show after that is literally just black people riding and it's just you didn't show the people in their families who were scared of everything else and starting with the speak easy makes it seem like the speak easy is what caused the Detroit riots without

[00:28:03] giving any sort of pretext other than a fucking animated intro James like to see your brain also like that animated intro just really rub me the wrong way also because it like it starts with like the great migration great migration it starts with that and then

[00:28:19] it goes like and then like you know and then they they started working and then they moved to the suburbs and then shit happened that's the it's like that joke with the money away it's like that joke on like sitcoms where people go

[00:28:31] like can you tell me the story just start at the beginning and they go OK I was born in 18 yeah later and then they go ahead too far like the movie tries to give you too much context and it's like hurry it up and

[00:28:41] they're like OK we'll get to the point here but you're missing this stuff that actually is relevant to this specific I feel like that that animated opening more so than anything else really clarifies that Catherine Bigelow was making this film for a white audience yes yeah and

[00:29:00] and not only a white audience but like a white talk back sounds like that too absolutely she's like people need to know that this happened and and the idea was like OK there are a bunch of white people who like don't understand like why black

[00:29:18] people mistrust police and I need to show them with this film and like I need to give them like a little quick history lesson so that they understand you know what was happening in the inequality that was happening to them here and then why they started

[00:29:30] writing and then show the riots and then show how devastating the riots were by like showing a maybe a little girl just got shot by a tank showing this kid that we don't know you know who's like who's like taking groceries and and then getting him him getting

[00:29:45] shot in the back even if a white person is like he should have been stealing those groceries but he didn't deserve to die and then you know they shouldn't be riding but you know it is pretty crazy that the tanks are happening and then it's

[00:29:58] like well they shouldn't have shot that gun at those police but you're right I mean they didn't deserve to have a night of horror you know it's all like it's always like this equivocation and even if the movie is not trying to equivocate it you it's that

[00:30:11] you have you equivocate it's letting you it leaves the space for it and also the problem is a tension based filmmaker that opening chunk of like riot stuff is so frightening in the same way that the stuff in the Algiers motel is because she's

[00:30:25] going for intensity or she's making it look like a horror movie rather than like a moment of sort of like uprising something that has a statement behind it and I tell you this right now this is tricky and this is in defensive Catherine Bigelow

[00:30:38] I I respect that she tried to like help show the light of that but the thing that's so tricky about it and I don't know the answer to this I I mean you talk about on our pockets I don't know because I think Steven's work did a good

[00:30:52] job with the couple I can't sit here and say that a white person can't direct a movie about black people I can't say that a woman can't direct a movie that deals on men issues like I can't say that if you're informed but the thing that's very very

[00:31:05] hard for me is that as a black person even right now walking down the street I walked out with you guys say John James were here and it was a cop to come up I will all automatically tense up like that's just how I mean it just

[00:31:18] happens because at the end of the day is that I don't know the difference when I first see someone whether this is a good cop or bad cop I know they are good cops I know they exist I know they're great but I don't know who I'm

[00:31:29] seeing right now until the confrontation or the incident happens so the fact that she had this movie where there's even a part where like the white girls when they get taken out of the room by the was it by the it's not a cop

[00:31:43] he's a national guard she goes are you gonna tell the cops we're here are we safe are you gonna tell the cops we're here in that statement right there to me that is what this movie needed to get to that same it is like the fear you have

[00:31:55] right now is you can't tell who is here to help you and these are the people who are hired to protect you and you are scared now okay so they're two bigger issues I feel like we're talking about now that are the two main things that

[00:32:06] this movie represents that we need to talk about one is the sense of like who gets to tell what stories and Bigelow is a really interesting person to talk about in that light because like her two biggest movies are movies about masculinity yeah are like

[00:32:18] point break your heart locker right and then zero dark 30 I'd say is like the third sure and that's one of only like so much to movie she made that has like a female lead most of her career has been about depicting sort of testosterone with this outsider perspective

[00:32:32] but with this level of like specificity and detail and point breaks a lot more heightened is a little more satirical hurt lockers a lot more stripped down but you watch both those movies and it's like she's getting some things about masculinity that I don't know a male

[00:32:47] director would have the distance to be able to perceive but it also feels like with those movies she did her time she did her research film is collaborative I feel like when people talk about like well this person shouldn't be allowed to tell this story they

[00:33:00] ignore the fact that there are a lot of people involved in a movie but the difference is someone like Spielberg coming with color purple and knowing what he doesn't know and knowing when to listen and when to ask versus like I think I got this I think I

[00:33:12] have a solid handle on this story. Well, and also I mean you know it's written it's made by director by her sure written by Mark Bolls produced by Megan Allison and other white people you know you're not seeing a lot of diversity at

[00:33:24] the top of the movie like Barry Ackroyd shot it who's the guy he's a he's British for sure and he's the guy who like does the born movies I mean I don't know they were very concerned about getting the story of what happened inside the hotel right

[00:33:42] as that was I detail detail yeah like that's where all because they did put a lot of research into this movie but I think that's where most of their research was like let's recreate this exactly how it happened and really get people to feel like they're there so

[00:33:56] much so I mean I don't know if you guys found this new research but during the talk back they said somebody asked the question like how much did you know about this movie before it started and what's this what's the kid who plays the main LG Smith

[00:34:11] LG Smith yeah LG Smith said nothing and he's only 22 years old they didn't like they they didn't give him a script when he was auditioning he didn't know the character that he was auditioning for and then during the auditions like they would just do improv and

[00:34:29] like the improv would be like him like being put against the wall and like you know getting roughed up and all this stuff and then like that's what they did when they were filming it like she kind of met the details right yeah did they

[00:34:43] not have a they didn't have an understanding of this the script as a whole yeah they didn't like the idea was like so and then to get them to be frightened and used or whatever you know really feel like into that to really not know what's going to

[00:34:57] happen next you know that's a weird balance to be like we're gonna research this we're just gonna try to pick things exactly as they were but not tell actors what's going on right like boyega was like they didn't know where the cameras were when they

[00:35:11] were filming that is a horror movie and that's what they would do but that is what they were doing I mean I will say this like that scene like the main scene of the movie is horrified yes it's effective it's a very

[00:35:25] effective in that I was like I was like yep I don't know like there is no right thing to do anybody who thinks you know oh why didn't they do blah blah blah would that kind of logic would immediately leave your mind when seeing this movie because you

[00:35:40] say there's nothing you can do when somebody is this bent on making sure you're guilty you're at you're literally your life is at their hands there's nothing you can think you can say the right thing you could say the right thing the wrong thing you could

[00:35:53] try to stand up for yourself and not stand up for yourself you know you can run away get shot or stay there and get shot you know you can cooperate and still get shot so you know what's just going through your head over and over

[00:36:03] it's like this is unfair this is the worst yeah it's like this is unfair I agree yeah echoing around when you're talking I just want to hear talk was that before the movie came out it was like where their minds were because I bet they got

[00:36:18] different it was definitely before it was before it came out for the review for the wide release yeah I'm trying to think I feel like it was like maybe before like the limited release sure sure yeah I still got good reviews for the most part yeah 80% or something

[00:36:36] yeah it is run tomatoes measure I got strong like big low ratchets up the tension again there's the edge of your seat James or you want to just like hearing the thing that you were saying Bray about how like wondering like why didn't they do blank a thing

[00:36:54] that kept coming up in my mind was like why is no one talking about the toy gun that happened like I kept that that kept repeating in my mind and then why none of them were talking about saying like there is no

[00:37:07] guy I know because I was like you guys are that confident that you hid that guy saw it how could you be that confident and and only two of them were in the room besides Jason Mitchell right that were up against the wall

[00:37:23] right like there were only two other people well it's the two the two white girls and the two members of the dramatics right yeah no where they were they in that room when he was shooting at them though yeah I tend to everybody was

[00:37:35] when they were they were all in the same room everybody was shooting at the police yeah I didn't even read but I'll say this the movie also like it gets so chaotic during this section which I know why she's doing it because she wants this sort of

[00:37:46] like you know a fear based filmmaking but it also got to a point where I was like wait did I miss Anthony Mackie getting introduced I had no clue he was there today the cops dragged right where he just like turns around I'm like that's Anthony Mackie

[00:38:00] when did I miss him talking geography of the hotel I have no idea what I was like what where what and this they show like they show this hotel yes they show like the man has an annex yeah yeah it's like this annex like yeah

[00:38:15] but they but it doesn't feel like when they first were in that room I thought it was just a different apartment building yeah I didn't realize it was the one for bringing this up because this so far crazy yeah a when they go from the hotel

[00:38:26] they're talking outside the hotel by the pool and then they go to this other house I had no idea if they were like 20 minutes away if they were in the backyard if it was a different room whatever it was not but also once we get to the section

[00:38:37] of the movie the centerpiece of the movie which is like these people up against a wall these cops guns pointed separating them playing this intimidation game right you have no idea where any of the rooms are in relation to each other yeah

[00:38:52] movie is playing this game of like okay he's up here she's down here he's there this guy's there and I couldn't figure out who was where at all and also where I didn't struggle with this I'm gonna be honest I guess

[00:39:03] my thing was like there was no hotel attendance and they're right like I was like because they're in this annex I think that why didn't somebody come to a hotel come over and go like what's happening like right cuz Samira Wiley plays like

[00:39:17] a clerk who they talk to yeah early on in the movie who's at the desk right yeah yeah and there's like the pool there's a pool area which feels like the main part of the hotel right but then this is like house and there's like four rooms

[00:39:31] off the hallway and there's stairs up and there's like more rooms off but outside of the house it looks like they're just in a suburb I was thinking that too I was wondering like why nobody was coming from the hotel to

[00:39:43] check up on it but then I was like they have sort of established that you know one goes out no one goes out after a certain right but they were on the property like it was it be different of you like because there was

[00:39:56] a curfew in effect but if I worked at the the motel I'm really just walking to the back of the motel like that's not like me being out and this is the real place I mean which I assume really does look like a house oh

[00:40:09] wow and yeah it's like a house that's off the motel when it is connected how you get this visual something that really looks like a motel classic when they cut to the house and this like front lawn I just was like basically looks like we are amityville

[00:40:23] horror house right might as well be in like Long Island in the suburbs I guess my whole and my whole thing with this part too is like I I sincerely couldn't understand how those cops like got here yes because they they were they seemed

[00:40:37] when he was shooting it from the window it was like there were trees in the way like when we see the cops ducking or the National Guard like ducking down right they have no idea where it's coming from then somebody says like it's the motel but

[00:40:51] my thing is like if did the cops know that this was a part of the motel dude you know what I mean there's a question this one I remember my biggest problem is that again and I will never let it go is that you made

[00:41:07] a movie about victims like terrorizers and victims at one at one point I'm even going to include this in part when did we get to know really anything about these black people besides the fact that they were like they're only algae smith's kind of kind of

[00:41:25] I really like the moment that they give him to sing on stage by himself yeah I love it I really like that part I thought that that was like a great like oh yeah like he just has this dream that he

[00:41:39] is like not faulting I think he's going to show out and do it. I think that seems good the only problem I have with a lot of those scenes is you're just kind of sitting there with your fist balled up being like what the fuck is going on.

[00:41:51] So everything feels like a little bit of a tease for some future harm this is like every thing that seems really effective with me and then if you're going to have him and then what's the kids from Slate, his best friend Jake Landmore? Yeah

[00:42:05] you got him in there and it's like okay let's build this friendship up a little bit more we see that Jake and Bladdemore like always support some right? We see they both like the girls he's a little bit more shy. Let's like build

[00:42:15] the people show me the women then Jason Mitchell comes in with a toy gun like that's the thing where they prostitutes I still don't know what they were they weren't really they were just like girls who were like they like fucking black dudes yeah but it's not

[00:42:31] like they weren't like working prostitutes that makes sense okay they were kind of like they were kind of like I just wish I knew. They definitely were runaways but who maybe had been paid I think it was more of a casual These many things unanswered even about

[00:42:47] where the house is in relation to the hotel and who the people are and all of that is just like for a movie like this to work you need to lay all the pieces out on the board very clearly

[00:42:59] whether or not you should have been making this movie if you want this type of movie to function you need to know where everyone is in relation to each other who everyone is what their back stories are I think that's the challenge Bo likes to set

[00:43:09] right and he said it and it's whatever but Hurt Locker and Zero Dark 30 are both about one character like he's using one character to guide you through this larger kind of thing that's going on we got the one character in this one

[00:43:23] and it's the same just like the character from Zero Dark 30 same like the character from Hurt Locker it's just a white one I mean no let's be straight up he basically opens the movie he has the longest scene we see that he should have got fired

[00:43:37] we even see his mind switch while he's at the hotel of like he's playing everyone against each other the other conversation that we have with him that's kind of a lot more layered is the one that he has when he's ride it, when they're patrolling

[00:43:53] before he shoots the guy and they're just like look at them like the one dude who we're supposed to think is more racist by the end of the movie which dude who wasn't as racist, he's the one who told who's this partner who like shot

[00:44:09] who wound up accidentally shooting that's the guy who was supposed to be like Jack Rainer right but he's not as racist because like he's just stupid the pitch on him is that he's a dumbass which is an easy out for the other two cops

[00:44:23] that they eventually portray both of them as just being like well they're just dopes what's his name? Killed he made like an accent he's like I thought I had to oh you talking about the skinny one there's the kind of like jittery one with the longer back hair

[00:44:41] I'm trying to find the name of that actor because I don't remember what his name is he is familiar he's in like one of the mummy movies, I think he's in like the third mummy movie the one where Jack Lee was in it Jack?

[00:44:55] oh he's in like Jack Reacher or something like that didn't they have a conversation the block guy is the guy from Transformers 4 that's the stupid one the other one who is maybe kind of the one who's just like a brute that's Ben O'Toole that's what I'm talking about

[00:45:11] he hasn't been much he says something to the effect of look at them they're animals and then what's my man's name from May's Runner Wilpulter well you know was originally supposed to play Pennywise? did this instead of it yeah he did this instead of it

[00:45:31] he was gonna play another because he was like look I want to play an unstoppable force of evil but can I have a little backstory can I have the movie give me more screen time to make me a little more

[00:45:41] also he was like oh man it's Catherine Bigelow I gotta do it it's a logical decision oh paper he had Anthony Mackie can you imagine if like it had this many scenes of Pennywise going into his office and the chief of the clown service was like look Pennywise

[00:45:59] you gotta stop eating these kids I think you're being a little no no that scene is bad it's funny you say it because technically that scene is not in it but they took it out cause they said the focus shouldn't be on it the scene fucking existed

[00:46:15] when he goes back in time we figure out how he becomes it when he's still a damn human but they realize it's not about him Pennywise is bad who cares wow it had more concern I just want to say you're being not hard on that scene exactly

[00:46:31] but slightly piffy about that scene cause that scene is definitely there to tell us why the character is angry as well but also I'm not saying I think it's a little bit of an easy causality or whatever but I don't think it's a scene where the cops like

[00:46:45] geez you know you're really pushing it out there mostly the way it depicts the chief where I think it's kind of a like well not all white people we're about to show you three very racist cops but this guy he likes it

[00:46:57] I think that's the problem with the movie where it's like no matter what if you portray a character right then immediately I say it feels like equivocation even if you're trying to be accurate or whatever especially cause the dog is so whole you've dug for yourself

[00:47:09] for me if people if there was no commentary by any of the characters then that scene doesn't bother me because I recognize watching it and hope other people do like wow this cop know this chief knows that his you know officer patrol officer

[00:47:29] maybe killed the person in cold blood and then let him back off the street that dude that dude's messed up also all the National Guard all of the other cops like everybody who was there at the place cause there were so many people there

[00:47:43] and they all just were like I don't know just let them handle it we're just gonna be it indicts all of them you're all guilty so much so that John Boyega becomes a part of the problem too we have to talk about him

[00:47:57] we have to talk about him but before a dear like that should be there but then we do get scenes like the ones that happen after the incident where we have this like really tough almost army general looking person like bring

[00:48:15] will polter it and then let oh no sorry bring the other two in like chew them out for being racist like he's like get it you know what I mean I was supposed to think this is a good

[00:48:23] you know what I mean so it's like we have those things but we don't have the scene where people are getting chewed out for their complacency for their sure it becomes so much about these three super villains and it's two guys who are

[00:48:35] like dumb they're racist because they're dumb and one guy who's like a McEvellian super villain genius who knows how to like he's not a genius and I have a problem with him I have a problem with even that the context of them

[00:48:49] I don't know who the main dude the main racist no no the chief that like chews them out at the end because he goes he goes get in here you knuckleheads people have died people have and he they're treating it like knuckleheads yeah

[00:49:07] so I didn't even see that as like I looked at I literally looked at every white person in this movie as a villain and I think except for that one scene where they show that cop come and be like who would do this

[00:49:23] and he like gently picks them up and brings them to the police and I was like why did you put this film why did you put this scene in the movie it's like what is that scene I know why I think that scene to me personally shows

[00:49:37] that like the guy the main black dude was terrified of him because again we don't know this dude is good right and there's a way you can do that scene where it's effective sure but I think the one thing this movie should have harped on

[00:49:49] because they're trying to say because it's from you know this is what's happening now I think one of the things that gets lost in translation a lot of time is that when people when African-Americans say there's a problem with police

[00:49:59] people are like oh no man you can't just shit on all police and every time we always say the same thing we're like we don't know who's good and who's bad like we just don't so if you had a hat in this movie

[00:50:09] I would allow a fake character in this movie the cops are fake this is crucial to mention these cops are not real they're not real cops they have different names I don't know why but they do that fucking bothers me there may be legal reasons for that

[00:50:25] I have no idea why my thing is this we got movies about fucking OJ movies about him and I can't put the three white dudes who got off okay anyway let me get back to this point like the fact is like if you're gonna add a fake character

[00:50:37] no you're making no fucking sense we can butcher, we can have fucking OJ you're adding a movie to play I wish I had the reason for you and I don't I know exactly what the reason is they deserve respect, they deserve to be left alone

[00:50:49] I mean the white woman who literally got in the till kill Lily we didn't see her so she was on her fucking death band and she's like oh yeah maybe I was wrong but we still don't say her name in the streets

[00:50:59] back to the point ahead because that's some fucking bullshit like if you're gonna add a fake character into this movie then you put a cop who is like not down with this and it's trying you know what I'm saying show me like

[00:51:11] there's a fucking level of good and bad people probably would freak out about that too I'm freaking out for the whole goddamn movie but don't you think a more interesting version of this movie would have been a movie that was putting blame on

[00:51:25] sort of quiet complacency in that kind of way like a banality of evil putting up good well intentioned cop who still doesn't stop any or maybe some what or maybe some people if you're gonna do the trial thing like show some of the white people who are like

[00:51:39] good like those that good man got off it you don't know like show like show what it was like I said I'm just the horrors of the injustice everything you guys are saying like I can I can just see someone running

[00:51:49] being no because that's true people would have complained about what you're trying to put something somewhere you're already in trouble right right you know and so that's why I understand why they were like well the Algiers motel instant is such an extreme example

[00:52:03] true this is maybe why we should focus right I can see how he gets himself here yeah where he's like right this is like no one could it's a microcosm it's like a shock of muzzle in the face it's like most unambiguous thing but

[00:52:15] then there's still ambiguity one so that's a problem and then two I think everyone just walks out of the movie being like yeah I'm supposed to district like is there supposed to be anything it's what it is that was bad

[00:52:27] it's one of these movies and there's a movie I hate what's the movie no I'm not gonna bring up the help right now I'm not gonna bring up the help right now I'm not gonna bring up the help okay I'm gonna bring up uh man almost

[00:52:39] blocked out in my mind cuz I hate it so much ladies and saddles so hear me out hear me out and the reason I bring it up because because no British was brought up oh you can't make this movie again

[00:52:49] sure hit me out here me out I'm not gonna crap on it I promise not gonna crap on it I'm just saying this movie Detroit suffers the same problem that Blazing Saddles does is that Blazing Saddles trying to tell a story about something that in all honestly

[00:53:01] they don't know about like I think the intentions from Elbrich's and Catherine Brigelow are very righteous I love that they attempted to do it but the problem with that movie is is that you're basically saying look at these bad white people

[00:53:13] I'm not like these white people you shouldn't want to be like these white people and what it allows is is that people who aren't inherently bro don't view themselves as racist to go oh I mean I ain't gotta meet black friends but I know I ain't like this

[00:53:25] it alleviates and makes people almost like pat themselves on the back but I'm not this bad and that's the problem I have with both of those movies where it just does more damage than good I think what she's trying to get though is like

[00:53:35] this isn't any different from now but I think the problem is when you watch it you're like but it's so specific like so I can't get there yeah I don't know I was I did feel like the message of this movie was like people are ruining things

[00:53:49] right cause like even at the end of the end of the movie my man Algie is like I will never sing again and that was all he ever wanted to do I can't even sing the music that I love because white people are dancing to it that felt

[00:54:01] that felt like another thing and I felt like there were enough white people going save them alright no let's go let's go too much paperwork or whatever that like that did feel like a message of this movie as much

[00:54:15] as like it's a horror movie for most of it it felt like that was what they were trying to say to me Ben can you get the just get the door I'm sorry I ordered some delivery no problem who can plant a rosebud grow petunias

[00:54:29] to curate the best flowers and deliver them to you Dan Candyman can't so uh wait Dan Candyman can't cultivate the field not candy no of course not you're the pro flowers guy I'm a flower man yeah okay good okay it's just the name well it's my family name

[00:54:49] I mean that's just Dan Candyman I can't control that your name isn't David L. Criticsman people don't confuse you know what you got me your last name with your profession uh okay okay so we were Candyman Ousky at Ellis Island and my great grandparents they changed

[00:55:05] it to candyman and that's just my name okay well anyway I'm a pro flower man right I was looking for some flowers it's the fall I was hoping for maybe you know bouquet with some fall colors I heard you were excited about the fall

[00:55:17] this is a perfect gift yeah I got some burnt sienna's in here some rust oranges right right some nice nice fall palette yeah oh why don't you take away for this oh that's a little bit of a cold it's a cinnamon cider rose

[00:55:29] a great option for a birthday anniversary any fall occasion or go with me on one of the classics like a hundred autumn bloom like a hundred autumn blooms or a dozen autumn roses it's funny that you're singing this stuff but I mean that all sounds good I mean

[00:55:49] you got a lot of flower options it sounds like I'm not allowed to sing no you can sing it's fine all I wanted was a long lasting bouquet if I only had some flowers and maybe you know in some autumn colors

[00:56:03] I got that that sounds great and look let me tell you something what's your name Dan Candyman go right ahead off the record no let's put it on the record Ben cut the mics for a second no let's put this on the record

[00:56:19] I want this on the record David I'm a long time blankie oh thank you big fan of the show great to hear I know you've invoked in the past your struggles with gambling they have a density to gamble

[00:56:31] yeah you're right I didn't know you were going to take it here well because I have some good news for you you send your podcast listeners okay are going to get 20% off of any pro flowers unique bouquets of $29 or more

[00:56:43] so you're saying if you use a promo code it's not a bet you can't lose blank check right the promo code is blank check right you're gonna get 20% off any bouquet any bouquet of $29 or more what if you only want cinnamon cider roses

[00:56:57] done sure what if you want the 100 autumn blooms done what if you want a dozen autumn roses done that sounds good when they last these things last at least seven days or your money back so they're guaranteed staying fresh yeah and here's the other thing

[00:57:11] I met your mercy because you control the delivery date oh so I can order like way in advance it will arrive like two weeks from now fast the candy men promise that's cool I actually got some pro flowers before they came in a box

[00:57:23] come with a vase yeah they come with flower food and it's literally just you just unpack them you put them in the vase it comes with a vase and I lack for vases I am candy man giving you flowers now put them in the water

[00:57:37] you put in the food put them in that included vase they look incredible now let me ask you a question sure mr. candy man what if you want some Kit Kat bars uh yeah the chocolatey treat well don't ask me you're the flower guy

[00:57:51] I'm the flower man you're Dan candy man the flower guy correct well it's been nice to meet you mr. candy man I think I'll definitely back again soon uh yeah this is a this is an interesting thing that's happening yeah David

[00:58:05] also can you not get deliveries in the middle of a recording yeah David why not get the your nose for once right then yeah Dan candy man they high-fived yeah well okay I just wanted everyone to know on this show it's why I did it in the

[00:58:19] middle of the show okay they could use promo code blank check go to pro flowers calm get 20% off any bouquet $29 some more come with me to pro flowers calm I'm sorry do you know my song do you want to sing it sorry sorry mr. candy man come with

[00:58:37] me and you'll be on pro flowers dot com on the internet I'm gonna close the door okay promo code blank check thanks for stopping by mr. candy man well he's on the other side of the door now oh Griffin you're back

[00:58:53] I was here I just didn't really feel like talking oh okay fair enough so so here are these two things I want to get out to talk about John Boyega yeah I was gonna say you want to say Griffin and then we'll talk about John Boyega

[00:59:05] for me the difference between this and Blazing Saddles aside from all the other differences between the same movie right this is an unofficial remake right right this is sort of the 13 going on 30 to Blazing Saddles big but I think Blazing Saddles depicts different

[00:59:27] levels of racism and obviously it's in a different context but I like that that movie has casual racism in it it has the people who are like I'm not racist please don't mention this to anybody and it has your like must-ash twirling like super evil guys

[00:59:41] and in this movie I think there's just kind of like every white character who's central is like such a horrific villain right yeah and then you have a lot of people who are like small parts who are just kind of like well I don't know let's not

[00:59:53] talk about it they're not doing much about it maybe they're a little more like right I think the more effective version of this movie and once again she should have made this movie but the more effective version of this movie would

[01:00:03] have been a movie that we need more fingers at that quiet complacency I also think there's this thing that this movie represents which is like when you make movies about any sort of prejudice or discrimination but you make them period pieces at a distance far

[01:00:19] enough from where you are today it's sort of alleviates a certain sense of like present day of course cultural guilt because it's like well thank god that happened 50 years ago but now we're well I do as I already said the movie is trying to be like it's not

[01:00:33] different but I think inherently that's a flawed concept like I think the second you said it that far back it does create that remove here which the question is should she have made this movie at present day it's because and the reason that it fails at

[01:00:47] that is because anyone who can see that the stuff that's happening in this film is happening today already knows that this movie is not changing one person's mind there's nobody going into this movie who is like yo first of all nobody went to see this movie but second

[01:01:05] of all people I mean nobody would see this and not as many people want it as they wanted but people want to see this some money some money for I think it was like 40% of the audience was black and yeah and and the thing is though

[01:01:19] my thing is like for people to make for people to really make that connection what you need to do is take the exact language that people are using politically today and put those in the mouths of the people here in this period it has to be

[01:01:34] exactly like people have to recognize like it's this is all about law and order like they have to hear the all the phrases that are still being used today in the mouths of these other people and like what I'm saying is like

[01:01:46] for the especially for the complacency thing you need to have white people who were not connected to this event commenting on the event after it happens after the audience has seen what's happened right and then see like a trial period where like people are talking about it

[01:02:04] and going and going well why didn't they just listen to the cops and well maybe if they weren't doing this and maybe if they weren't writing or maybe they you know respected the flag you know I want to see right the thing I want to see is white

[01:02:18] people in this movie a scene of white people in this movie going like well you know we don't know what happened in that room we don't know insidious insidious right yeah but we guys think about John Boiega okay so Boiega is really fascinating to me because

[01:02:32] aside from the fact I think he's really fucking good in this movie give him very little to do every time they give him a moment he kills it I also think he's the pathway to the most interesting thing this movie had to say which is he is

[01:02:44] a guy who is trying to be moderate in this entire situation and he learns conclusively that there is a time where moderation has to be put aside I guess so you know what do you guys think my thing is that he it's like his character

[01:03:00] is supposed to be the black person who follows all the rules and still gets fucked so that people can say go oh man even when they do follow all the rules they still get messed up but again one I don't think anyone who wasn't already

[01:03:22] thinking that way is making this connection from the movie the other problem is like I mean John Boiega was a great actor and he did you know a good job in this movie but we don't know anything about this dude's character you don't get any background at all

[01:03:36] what do you guys think man I find difficulty with it because I'm going to say this before I get into this next statement because this will fuck me at one point in life I know it when I say this I do believe like black actors are black actors

[01:03:56] I do like I don't care where you're from you're a black actor but this story and I feel like this happens kind of a lot to African American men stories that are inherently something that we in America have to deal with

[01:04:08] we're not put in a position to be the stars and be in that spot and I do think if it would have been like an American black dude in this because again John Boiega he has nothing to do in this movie he doesn't but there's also like a

[01:04:22] bruh in this day and age like if I'm around a cop right now my body is different I look at them different even if I trust you I still have a guard up and he didn't have that because I don't think

[01:04:38] aside from here in America we haven't been in a place where the hatred is so steep that it still exists right now and I think it should have been someone American which sucks to say but I do a little bit and I also think that

[01:04:48] I would love to see a scene outside of the one we first see him with another black person in that hotel just look I wanted to see them make eye contact and have a moment because at any time I'm in a room and a bunch of white people

[01:05:00] I see any brown person I'm looking at you and I'm giving you a nod to let you know that we are safe you know what I'm saying that's just period and just to talk about that I felt like so much was happening at that moment

[01:05:14] when he first shows up there's no time for the nod or for anything I struggled with John Boiega for the same reasons you were saying but also just because of like how his character is rendered like we don't we don't really know who he is

[01:05:36] or what he's doing until after he gets like handed the bag of shit she wants him there for that scene where he's in the interrogation room which I think is a very well acted scene shirt where he like dawns on him like oh I see but then I

[01:05:54] struggle with it not knowing the details of the night but then to hear on top of everything that the details of the night are shaky and just are like people don't we don't have an accurate account of everything that happened like the timeline of when he shows up

[01:06:12] I'm questioning that and then he's there for so long and does nothing like it's a tricky to me is a tricky character this is probably the hardest character for Catherine Bigelow to direct in a white screen whatever to write because in reality

[01:06:34] I mean it said in the film right like a lot of black people probably would have looked at this guy like the uncle Tom like oh you're just capitulating to white people to save yourself but I think Catherine Bigelow doesn't want that wants

[01:06:48] us to relate to this character one because it's John Boyega he's the biggest star in the film also because you know she doesn't want to paint another black person in a bad light so we see like so he has this air of like he's

[01:07:02] there to help he just doesn't know what to do he's noble you know he's noble blah blah but in reality I'm sitting there like what I was thinking was like my man if you're not going to help you need to leave what are you doing here

[01:07:16] you're not helping anybody and he was there for so long and the thing he is a fascinating part of this case because you mentioned the tribunal that the the citizen's action committee held like they convicted him along with the three white cops

[01:07:32] they sentenced him to death which is something that was there was like the sentence they passed down and he was there he was the only one who attended he didn't say he attended like he wasn't like testifying and like like you say

[01:07:44] they could have sent her the whole film around like you know like that that's that's a dynamic I'm sure she's fascinated by it's a problem I have with the big scene I think it's big scene again they mean the interrogation and again I am not

[01:07:58] I feel like this is the only thing of like oh man people keep crapping on like British black actors they still black you are you are still black and maybe it wasn't him maybe it's how he was directed but if I

[01:08:08] a black person if I witness a crime and there's no other black people around me I know in my heart that this now will be a problem for me period if you show up to my job you don't buy the he doesn't get that until then

[01:08:20] if somebody walked in here right now and said hey dry you need to come with me I instantly know something is up I'm not coming in that thing and being like really complacent but you're pinning that on his Britishness

[01:08:30] no I do think it's I'm this what I'm saying because I want to I mean here's what I'm saying if I'm saying I think it's one of two things it's like either that or as how he was directed but the thing is there is a loss in

[01:08:40] I think it's probably both it might have been a bad connection in how people were treated I was just saying the thing the reason that I don't buy that at the end is because of how he played the character in the beginning because my thing is

[01:08:54] I would have much rather have seen you know when he comes over with coffee to the cops where the National Guard and he's like and we're watching it the way that it's depicted is like he is doing what he can to make sure that the stores

[01:09:08] don't get messed up he's got his job he's gardener he's gonna be like he's gonna make sure that he doesn't get shot this is also what I find interesting about the character he's the one guy who willingly puts himself into the situation it feels

[01:09:18] brave and noble when he does it instead of what it could have been which was he could have been cowering we didn't have to see him save another black person he could have just been like I'm glad that wasn't me you know what I mean

[01:09:32] like that's I would have believed that a lot more show me what it's like and then him go and then him have because that would be that would be an actual arc right it's like the arc isn't just happening

[01:09:44] because right now it's just at the end he just goes oh I did everything right and now I'm screwed instead of oh my god I thought if I degraded myself and lowered myself and lowered my pride and like yes sir yes sir

[01:09:58] and all this stuff all the things they want me to do is just be subservient I'm gonna be subservient this entire time and then I and then I'm still on the act you know what I mean I could have been like whoa

[01:10:10] that's what I find interesting it's just like he was a really noble guy and then the white people screwed him and he was so brave the whole time and then he still gets screwed and I'm like but was he brave the whole time

[01:10:20] I would love a movie where he was actually the main character they did try to present him as the hero and you actually got a sense of his psychology especially during the alger's motel when he kind of just fades into the background for a long period of time

[01:10:32] you don't understand why he's not acting because I think he's the figure who ends up representing most of what's interesting about this because he was trying to find a balance because he was someone who is trying to build a bridge because he wasn't someone who was

[01:10:46] stuck in this room and wasn't someone who was forced to respond he throws himself into that situation but you don't really understand why you don't understand why he doesn't do more and of course it gets pinned on him at the end but at that point he's not really

[01:10:58] a character you haven't really spent any real time with him and his mind is emotions so it doesn't really mean anything and when it got to that scene I was like fuck why isn't the movie about him

[01:11:08] the thing is it would have been so much better if this movie started with him I don't know either on giving giving his statement like on trial or if he's an old man and he's like recounting everything that had to happen

[01:11:20] show me like who he was before that night yeah give me something show me like how he got to this point and like how screwed it was and then also again like how the black community treated him I mean he got death threats after this

[01:11:30] it should be a bio like I mean I think the problem is this guy's not selling you his life right he doesn't want a movie made about him and his role is so murky I like a lot of people's

[01:11:42] role like you know because no one yeah no one knows you know the testimony is little bits and pieces and like you try and put it all together figure don't make the movie alright I mean they made the movie

[01:11:52] I'm not saying this to you David I'm saying this to Catherine but to me to me the scene that really messes it up is that we see the first time we see him really is him doing a heroic act

[01:12:04] so we're set to believe this dude is a hero and a hero who fails but supposed to be a hero anyway he goes to the house because he wants to make sure that the white people don't kill the black people and that but it happens

[01:12:18] right but he's there but he's there but he's powerless right powerless you know yeah totally he's powerless but what I'm saying is if he's really if he's just I just wish the movie like made it made an interpretation of why he's doing this because

[01:12:34] because the fact of the matter is all the black people in here were powerless so like the one person who could have a little bit of agency you also just may power like he had no agency in the whole film

[01:12:44] which maybe that's how it happened in real life but part of me is like the white people didn't ask him to come what you were saying about Will Pultz for being the main character though I mean like this is kind of a movie about

[01:12:56] everyone's robbed of their agency and so right it's hard to know who am I attaching myself to here cause even his agency is innately he's very very racist which I'm not saying I want some origin scene where he falls into a vat of toxic racism

[01:13:10] but you know it's just like the movie just presents him as being like this guy just is fucking racist the racism power plant exploded and the fumes spread over the city he was too good cause he didn't want to kill anybody

[01:13:22] he was like no we're playing a game his dummy I mean the movie's not saying that the other guy's worse it's just saying the other guy's a fucking idiot but what I'm saying is the problem with me is that

[01:13:34] the movie and him saying how could you do that is just a game almost wipe the hands of some of the fucked up shit that the main racist guy did cause it's like cause to me what he's saying is I didn't feel that

[01:13:46] cause to me what it's like oh I am bad but I am not so bad and so racist that I'm just in here just killing black people that's what he thinks that's what I'm saying I saw it as like he thought that he wasn't doing wrong

[01:13:58] but that didn't expunge what he was doing but what I'm saying is what I'm saying is but that level of me getting to understand he thinks that way I now know more about his psyche than anyone else's psyche in the whole movie and that's a problem

[01:14:14] cause everyone else's psyche is they're really frightened cause they're being lined up against the wall especially at the dude I literally there were so many questions I wanted to ask about I didn't because there's no way I was going to

[01:14:26] but one of the questions I wanted to ask was like Anthony you've been in you're in the hurt locker you've been in three Marvel movies why are you here? you've been in the hurt locker your role is nothing in this movie why are you in this movie

[01:14:46] how did you say yes to them I have this role he's a veteran so I need someone who's got like presence and what why did she give I would be like I know we're tight but also and then when the ad roll out

[01:15:06] and all of the press happen my man I did not know Anthony Mack he was in this movie until he showed up on screen no there's one poster where he's where it's Boeiga Mackie Algie Smith and Will Poulter okay but the trailer that I saw

[01:15:24] the trailer that I saw and like anything that I knew going into this movie was that John Boeiga was in it Will Poulter was in it and it was like this hold up at the hotel but also I thought it was a lot about the Detroit riots

[01:15:36] more so than it was I thought it was about the Detroit riots I just feel like Anthony Mackie was it maybe he was on that poster when I'm talking about it yeah it's like one his but if you're saying that they that's not the main poster that they

[01:15:52] other posters that sort of but Bray if you said before that they didn't have they didn't have like the full they didn't know the full they didn't know you're right like I would say yes to that that there is a relationship thing

[01:16:08] it's like oh yeah oh it's Catherine okay all right great like how is it as a message okay all right like all of that together I would be like I would say yes to that literally no character here's a question that I have no answer to

[01:16:24] okay this is my question for you guys right I'm putting inside whether or not she should have made the movie and just looking at her intentions of what she wanted to try to get across trying to say like this is what's going on now

[01:16:34] place you in the situation make you understand the terror the powerlessness you know that distrust of authority all that sort of stuff do you think this movie would have been more effective had she created a story out of whole cloth or taken a less publicized

[01:16:52] but more recent incident like I can make a contemporary made a contemporary film and just said this is a bit of a that's a tough thing I don't know if there's a story that but I wonder if the better thing to do is make a movie

[01:17:06] that's just about this type of situation and all these things that we keep on getting to where well I guess the character can't do that because

[01:17:12] we don't know what they did in real life or I guess the character has to do this because that's what they did in real life but we still have these big lingering questions of why which the movies never able to answer

[01:17:20] just make a movie that is just like this fucking horrifying like I'll say standoff you know yeah I'll say this it if the sole intention was to make the audience feel like they were reliving themselves and experience of police brutality I felt that for sure that being said

[01:17:50] if that's the only thing you're going to do because that that's really the for me the only thing that was done effectively it is most of the movie but for me it was like everything else wasn't done effectively what he gets the court

[01:18:02] the problem is that it's not all the the problem I think it's summed up by John Krasinski just walking in John Krasinski we haven't talked about John Krasinski we have an hour to go where you're like oh shit John Krasinski is just showing up

[01:18:16] that means he's going to have like a whole role we're not done we're going to have a lunch at court room and he's chattering everybody and I guess the reason that she added that was for people to she wants it to be like they got

[01:18:30] off right she wants that so that they feel the injustice today but my thing is if that's the real goal if the real goal is to change the hearts and minds of people who are not already advocating for this stuff then you have to do it in a

[01:18:44] much more deliberate and obvious way than it was done in this film because for me like you were saying because and like you're saying because it's period film I don't think people who don't understand what's happening today are taking this incident and going I think

[01:19:02] I can just watch and you go yeah I can hear them right now I can hear them right now saying did you see the Eric Gardner video has nothing to do like that Eric Gardner was resisting did you see the other video

[01:19:12] did you see the video of Flanokasail those people were resisting oh yes the boy at Ohio like that was tragic but what can you do he had a toy gun they ran up like they came on them they saw the gun

[01:19:22] they shot him what do you want to what you want them to do it happen in a split second totally different don't say totally different and the reality is it is totally different because it's totally because the stuff that happens today usually at least

[01:19:34] at least the high profile incidents that we have videos of you know what I mean those incidents are usually because like these cops are making these split second decisions right because they're so fearful of their for their own life without even thinking about the life of the person

[01:19:50] that they right and they've been empowered in such an intense way in such a way that it's like it's like hey if you make a mistake it's cool we all got your back because we know you were just trying to do your best whereas these characters these cops

[01:20:02] we see in the beginning them run a black man down shoot him in the back so we know that they don't have the best intentions at heart so when they see this when they see this incident they're like yeah but these cops

[01:20:14] are different because they weren't fearful of their life they were just terrorizing them because they were on a power chip the National Guard knew it that's why they left right you know what I mean it's like why would something do this new it you're what you're

[01:20:24] the main thing she was trying to do I'm like it doesn't work with this movie at all like it doesn't work with this incident but it's and it also doesn't work because she but this is a dramatization of what happened like they had control they could have

[01:20:38] they could have made different decisions like the fact that this begins with like basically everything happens because Jason this will he says these words they'll never know who's doing this so when they go in and there are five people in there yeah

[01:20:56] it could be any one of them right like and then they terrorize them and it's a horror movie but it could be any one of them to them so like you'd like there's the grain of like probably just because he he shoots so many times that

[01:21:12] like right somebody in that house did that somebody in that hotel did that thing which I'm not going to say it's like it's like well you called out pinhead what do you expect I gotta go go off baby before you leave this movie gets

[01:21:30] nothing right yeah we get like oh yeah we had to give it in terms of the yeah is it crossing no I still would give it a white pond yeah I would give it a Chris Chalks in it a Mari Cheathams in it

[01:21:40] it's still good I mean it gave my man on the map he's gonna get some rolls off of this yes I don't like giving the was less than I mean Krasinski anyway the hair no I don't know I will say this I'll say this

[01:21:54] when after I watch this movie I was like I am interested why she chose this but I guess it was because of this police brutality thing but there are so many horrible things that are on a much larger scale that like white people have done to black

[01:22:08] people in this country and I'm just like it's so interesting the ones that like people bring out sure you know what I mean because it's also black people who don't get to pick it so yeah I guess I'm really interested to be like the ones that

[01:22:20] like white filmmakers attach themselves to that I'm just like oh that one I'm like I have a bunch of stories by you know there was a whole town in Oklahoma that was a pretty good black driving black town that just really like so much to do a movie

[01:22:34] just destroyed that entire town anyway that's all I gotta say bye hey yo we so much alright this is my job I I theorize that this movie I think that you could make this movie into a good movie I think this was in theory

[01:22:48] a movie that she should have done I think one simple change would have made this movie better it's like not have the racist white dude be the lead like cause to me again I'm have them be more anonymous more like these people just come in

[01:23:00] and you don't know who these people are you just want them to be like boogeyman that's it that is it because Pulters looks like a boogeyman but it's so tricky because I feel like you know my family they bring this up a lot whereas like

[01:23:12] if you watch the news and this goes for both CNN, MSNBC, Fox all these networks they make it seem like they're such a crazy divide and most of the time it's because you don't realize that a lot of times in these small towns

[01:23:22] people don't interact with one another so we don't get to see when I go visit my family there's black, there's white but they're together so those groups don't like people in New York or California cause they're taking all the jobs and money

[01:23:36] so people don't know that they actually are united so we get the shit together like we're in it together you talked about that in your Beasts of Southern Wall which was like really yeah right so to me if you feel the need to help

[01:23:48] people understand why these atrocities that happen in African Americans paint them as this is also dumb but make a scene cause we are as humanistic as possible show us what our family, show them in love show that guy who eventually dies

[01:24:02] like show him really like have a moment with that white girl like show him like these loving moments we are real people said when atrocities do happen to us it has more weight to it not just victims you can feel sorry, you can feel like

[01:24:14] oh my god I would never want this to happen again I wouldn't know to look out for it I won't be able to sit there and say oh I'm not like that my thought I had watching it was I felt like Boyega was the character

[01:24:24] that was sort of would have been the smartest one to pin like the real kind of narrative story on right and make it from his perspective I think you should know anything about the fucking cops I agree they just be you know like forces of evil

[01:24:36] but I also I had this thought at one point cause I was just playing this game of like okay how would I fix this with this work with this work what are the ways to refocus restructure this movie and this one thought

[01:24:46] I had was if you started the movie with the police walking through the door right here they are at the Algiers motel here we have a group of people lined up against a wall here we have a group of people with guns

[01:24:56] and you just do this Catherine Bigelow like Edgy or C white knuckle fucking terror thing but the movie is no context prior to that the story ends when they leave that room but you flash out of that to each of their lives show me their life

[01:25:12] right and you just go like here's a story that's going to be reduced to a bunch of victims and a bunch of perpetrators but let's flash out of this to give you senses of just their everyday fucking how do I get it because the movie doesn't do that

[01:25:26] at all and the one narrative they do no it doesn't not do that at all it does that for some characters they do it with the Algiers myth character but it's such a big swing of a narrative of like this is what made him give up music

[01:25:38] right sure sure we need to know he was like one specific prison which is just his career whole article you can read it about how he knows you know he met that guy and that was what connected him to the story out you can find it on

[01:25:48] I think it was in New York magazine or whatever one quick thing about that character is that yeah they show him as like I don't even think they make him honorable until the end of this movie because when you first

[01:25:56] see him his friend seems like the honorable one he's like I gotta get bread I have to get bread right no but the ride is happening they need to get out he has his moment of song and dance which is great which is

[01:26:06] beautiful sure the next moment they get out of here they go back he's kind of super selfish again you see a lot more like being nice to him in the moment the moment those white girls show up he instantly becomes a black predator he literally becomes

[01:26:20] he literally becomes at that point the thing that they show in Birth of a Nation to think of like oh he sees a white woman oh he's gotta go like he instantly goes at that moment even so much so when they go to that other house

[01:26:30] where everything goes down he just starts making out with her like legit and that's supposed to be the guy I feel like you're in a room of like 20 other people exactly even talking to her that much you gave him

[01:26:40] that kind of thing where like you almost made him more of a villain than this cop who shot somebody in the back as they ran away from stealing food yeah I don't know guys I'm just gonna say something controversial

[01:26:50] quick because I feel like I have to say it but um I don't hate that they went into Will's Will Poulter's story in the way that they did I agree I really don't and here's why he's a monster and I

[01:27:02] really think that the movie paints him as a monster and I think that the more we hear his the reason that he's doing these things the more he seems like a monster the I think the crime yeah I think if you make these characters anonymous then you can

[01:27:16] more easily dismiss them yes and the crime of this movie is that we see him in his most monstrous after everything that he's done shoot Jacob Lattimore in cold blood I find to be the most effective scene in the movie we have no idea who

[01:27:34] Jacob Lattimore is which sucks and that is the crime it's not that they went into his backstory and we got to see him like thinking that he's thinking that because we're not killing them he's doing the right thing no he's evil and then after all of this he

[01:27:52] does his best to just get off so like he's a villain and he is more of a villain and he's remorseless at the end exactly because they didn't just make him like a faceless sort of like villain character throughout like going into that was good

[01:28:12] but you want every other character have that level of detail it's an unbalanced four it's very unbalanced I want to stick up for John Boyega is the Brit in the room I just want to talk about it because I grew up in Britain

[01:28:30] where police brutality is a big issue too but I'm not really one who can talk about it but he has talked about it it's interesting hearing him talk about it talked about the Rashad Charles incident which is like a really recent terrible incident where a black kid

[01:28:44] in London was restrained for no reason it's like the same shit does kind of happen the difference is UK cops don't have guns and so that obviously that changes the scenario and obviously the American it's a very tough conversation because of course everyone knows this summer

[01:29:02] this whole thing happened with Sam Jackson and I agree black people all over the world deal with the same thing it's just that for some reason when it comes to American Hollywood movies they're given a chance I think that's a good point

[01:29:18] the other weird thing is Will Poulter is also British the two ostensible leads of this movie I was thinking about that too and I was like are they doing that to sort of are we supposed to now distance ourselves I assumed she just thought these are good actors

[01:29:34] but it is a little weird that the two main characters are played by British actors it is strange he's doing that very affected accent and I want to make sure I don't need to clarify because I feel like we get famous this episode

[01:29:50] I mean I've got a couple but I'm trying to clarify on all the ones but I know it won't come back to get me but I feel like there is a thing where it's like there are certain things that I think that it would be different

[01:30:06] if we just had a chance so we saw what it would be like we have to play a certain part that is in Haley something that we deal with every day I'm just curious to know what it would look like and I think it was a mistake

[01:30:20] to only give pieces of the script or have actors have your biggest source of black input in the movie not have an understanding of what the whole game was because I feel like there would have been a lot there would have been push back character input

[01:30:40] all kinds of stuff that we didn't get but I feel like the three of us are actors right you famous though you famous though you famous there you're in my subway station every day you at the airport I was at the Toronto Film Festival and

[01:31:02] the Toronto Film Festival in the Scotiabank where we see all the movies and the trailers on the loop it was like Flatliners, The Tick there was a third one so I watched you over and over again your face is like this is not well he's not into this

[01:31:18] let me restate okay draw James the three of us are the three finest actors of this generation we are the three finest actors of our generation you want to be able to play parts that are outside of you that are different than what you lived through

[01:31:36] but I also think sometimes you see performances where you're just like wow that is such a specific moment that clearly could only be realised by someone who has felt that has lived through that things that are very, very and I think you put it so well

[01:31:56] that shift you feel in physical tension when it cops around right that's something that I think It's a tiny, innate, behavioral moment that would speak volumes if you saw that depicted on screen.

[01:32:09] And that's like not to get lofty about it, but the power of movies where you're able to put a microscope on these little things and make other people understand them for the first time.

[01:32:17] And there are things where it's like, look, you can't say that a British person can ever play an American person this or that. No, shit. The first thing I'm saying is the one saying that I want to be clear.

[01:32:24] I just wanted to at least point out playing because it's time to talk about using knowledge. Thank you. Thank you. Please. I'm not saying it. But it is, you know, certainly with certain stories and certainly the bigger conversation is just as you said,

[01:32:37] like why do Americans never get to tell those stories? Like that's the biggest thing and you want to see people get those chances. We should wrap up. We should wrap up. Two things I want to do just because of time. That was me helping you.

[01:32:47] One, two, three, four. Thank you for it. Did you watch the movie? I thank you so much. We've had five people in the studio. Obviously Ben hasn't really, but Ben, did you even see the movie? No. Cool. Just wanted to get that in there.

[01:32:59] We started this miniseries and Ben was like, you know, Detroit's only going to be playing for like another week. Yeah. Because Detroit vanished from theaters very fast. Very quick. And we were like definitively Ben. You do not need to see this for a while.

[01:33:11] In the room and hear you guys talk about it. I'm really glad because it sounds like everyone's really angry. You would have been here. I want to play a box office game. That's the other thing.

[01:33:22] So this if you guys want to join in on this because we rarely do this recent. Talking on in limited release. It was July 28th. Should we do the limit? Let's do the wide weekend. Okay. So the wide weekend it's right is the next weekend.

[01:33:37] That's that's when it expands to 3000 theaters, which is crazy. And let's all one week in like the 20 theater. The other crazy thing about this movie is Anna Perna had just been a production company.

[01:33:49] And this was their first attempt at releasing a studio movie cost movie themselves releasing it. $34 million to make it grossed 16. I guess it's still technically in theaters, but I mean that's what it is. Domestically 16 has not been released outside of the country yet. Wow, really? Yeah.

[01:34:08] Well releasing this movie in August was bold. This is not a summer movie per se. I thought they would have made it like an Oscar. I thought they went for they were though. That's why it's so weird that they release it in August. Yeah.

[01:34:20] Like usually there's a movie right you release this in like October, November. Yeah. You know, Oscar season trying to get buzz, you know all that crap. Maybe you expand it slowly instead one week limited release then wide release. Right.

[01:34:32] And they talked about it like we're trying to have our kick in it too. We think this can be a big box office play that then will last through the And there's something admirable about that.

[01:34:39] Like especially if this is a better movie, but like, you know, like being like no, no, we're not going to play the little sort of like oh no, it's prestige movie. Like this is a movie everyone should see so we're going to put it everywhere.

[01:34:49] Like there is something to admire about it, but it didn't work for this movie. Absolutely not. It opens so it's so expands to number eight. So it's not in the top five. Yeah. Wow. So we're going to guess the top five.

[01:35:01] That's the box office game and make seven opening weekend. It makes seven point one million dollars. Yeah. In its wide weekend. And this is in August. This is August 4th 2017. Number one is a movie starring an actor of color. I just want to point out one more thing.

[01:35:15] August this year was like the worst August. Like they didn't have competition. If this movie was clicking, this was played and it made two times its opening weekend. Essentially a little over two. Right. What people are coloring number one is a new movie stars an actor of color.

[01:35:30] I saw it. I had a good time. The bodyguard, the bodyguards. It's not the man's bodyguard which comes out maybe a week or two later. It's a franchise play. It's sort of a genre movie. It's the dark tower. 19. I almost said that. 19.1 million. I'm late next one.

[01:35:47] Let's play. Come on. Let's play. It's already. Chainsaw removed his gloves. I know. Did you guys see the dark tower? Did you do an episode of the dark tower? We did. The dark tower, the dark tower, I read, I read over the books. I like the books too.

[01:36:02] So again, but I knew going into it that it just wasn't deleted that movie. I knew it was that little boy. Yeah. I mean that's not my favorite. That little boy had every talking line in the trailer.

[01:36:13] I wish it ended in that movie as it does for the little boy in the first dark tower book. Yeah. I think that would have been, but I mean I can see a studio being like, oh yeah. We're going to keep this child. The kid just dies?

[01:36:26] He just keeps going? He just leaves him? He just dies? He just walks away? Anyway, number two is kind of the out of the box hit of the summer that may is still probably the best picture frontrunner. Dunkirk. Dunkirk. Okay. I haven't seen it. Is it good?

[01:36:42] Yeah, for sure. I want to see it. I got it. What do you got? What do you, James what do you think? No, no I didn't see it. Oh, you didn't see it? I thought I was looking for it. No, I have no opinion. It's a good one.

[01:36:52] It's a good one. Nice trailers. It is a good trailer. Great ad campaign. Number, good ad campaign. Number three is just another huge frontrunner for best picture, animated film. You're saying this facetiously. I'm saying it facetiously. It's not just like, well me three. Oh no, it's emojis.

[01:37:07] The emoji movie. One of the worst of you movies ever. The emoji movie, which was I to America's credit, not really a big hit. 84 million. It did okay. The fact it made 84 million is insane. Right, but they were thinking. I mean, thank God it didn't make 200 million.

[01:37:24] That's my thing. I'm like, it was bad, but it could have been a lot worse. He underperformed relative to the Angry Birds movie. Like you know what I'm saying? Like if they wanted more from this movie. Angry Birds crossed 100. Yeah. Like it flew past it. It's slingshot.

[01:37:39] You and John. Angry Birds made 107. Yeah. Number four is definitely one of the breakout hits this summer. Also starting actors of color. Great movie. Oh, girl strip. Girl strip. Girl strip. The most profitable movie of 2017.

[01:37:56] Girl strip, which is a movie that cost $19 million to make has made 114 domestic. How much did get out made a lot of money too? Get out made a ton of money. You know it. You're right. Get out only costs like $5 million. Less than five and it made 175 domestic.

[01:38:12] The little house this year has been crazy number five. Not only is get out the most profitable movie of the year, get out is like one of the five most profitable movies in history. Split did very well. Split was the cost. Split did really well.

[01:38:23] He made two universal movies that cost nothing to make. Those two movies combined cost under $10 million and made over half a billion. Bloomfield had a great year this year. He should make fucking every movie. Everyone should make every movie. He's kind of a character in Home Again.

[01:38:38] Jason Bloom. Really? I mean like is he? A character that's obviously supposed to be him. Not the main young kid, is it? No, no, no. Is he actually in it? No. It's just obvious this character is.

[01:38:48] You know Home Again is one of those movies where it's about a struggling screenwriter. Oh is it? Yeah. And it's like clearly the woman writing her life 10 years earlier. Every time we pitch movies. I don't know about 10 years early. She's 29 years old. Really? Yeah man.

[01:39:01] So then why is it? Okay. Because we have Hollywood in it. They tell us no one cares about Hollywood movies and then we're like what about these movies? And they're like can y'all do that black thing for a whole season? And I'm like well okay. Well yes.

[01:39:13] How many times is that happening? A garage seven seasons. Seven seasons of extra. Later two, three seasons. Sorry go ahead. Number five? Number five? Yeah. Also starring an actor of color. Wow. It's a thriller. I think it was made like a while ago. Finally came out.

[01:39:32] Is it Kidnap with Halle Berry? Kidnap. Oh wow. That's a movie that already doesn't exist. Considering that that movie basically doesn't exist and got terrible reviews. It was supposed to be released three years earlier. What was it? That was a relativity bankruptcy movie. Yeah.

[01:39:48] It still made 30 million on a 20 million dollar budget. But we already forgot it existed. People rent it? I don't know. Kidnapped. Is that like her taken? Exactly. They're like fighting people? And they made it right after taken. I took this long to come out. What?

[01:40:02] You should have took the take in. Yeah. Going to take in with Halle. She hadn't been in a movie since X-Men Days of Future Past. Wow. Which she's barely in. So like her last like starring role is The Call from 2013. Which is the same movie.

[01:40:15] Which is pretty similar movie. She is in Kingsman this year. Which I just saw it two days ago. I mean, she's in it. She's not giving much to that. She's Ginger Ale. Ginger Ale is kind of in it. She's behind the desk. You know what?

[01:40:29] Maybe in a sequel she may have something to do if she is in a sequel. Which Kingsman 2 does a lot of that like, well this will actually do something in the next movie.

[01:40:36] They straight up admitted they were like, yeah, Chin Tatum was going to be the Pedro Pesco role and then he was busy. Clearly that role is supposed to be in the next movie. So we just had to put him on ice.

[01:40:47] They wrote that to be one character and then he was like, oh I booked something else. A vacation with my family. Sorry guys. Can you put me literally on ice for the majority of this film? That's nice. That makes total sense. That's the top five.

[01:41:00] Guys, you know what? It's six o'clock. I will say this though. I don't listen to podcasts. You guys are the only ones I listen to. So you should feel good about that. Thank you.

[01:41:07] I literally listen to no other ones because they usually annoy the hell out of me. Even though we have our own. But I usually never listen. Because I'm like, you know, people don't know me. I don't like hearing my voice. I hate my voice.

[01:41:20] I only listen to it when people get offended with a bad genre. You're not in a great podcast. The resonance of your voice is not even what you say. You dislike the tonality of your own voice. I think you've got a great voice.

[01:41:29] I will go back to someone who says, you offended me. I will go back and listen to it. And I'm like, all right, you know what? Maybe this was out of line or I will try to...

[01:41:35] But if people call me out of the terms, I will go back and like... I do the same thing. I mean, I don't get called out. I get a lot of hate just generally. But then I go back and listen to it. Internet's so great.

[01:41:46] And I'm in pain for a lot of reasons. They don't like what I'm saying and I don't like how I'm saying it. Sure. You want to argue with them? I also dislike listening to me for different reasons.

[01:41:59] If you wrote out what I'm saying, I would agree with that. I would agree with that. I would stand behind. Can I ask you a question now before I leave? Please. Now that you're famous... Yeah, this is like legit question. We're going to wrap up here.

[01:42:12] We haven't even done our Bigelow rankings though. Let's do that on our family episode. I'm sorry. No, we're right. I think it's still later. That would be real. Having a podcast, you guys could take movies and stuff. Do you ever feel like... Can't say something? It's very bizarre.

[01:42:29] I mean, I've told this story before, but I knew Ben because we did a podcast for the Chris Gethard show, like a recap podcast and that went on for a couple of years and then we stopped doing it.

[01:42:37] And I really wanted to do another podcast and I was talking to my agents about it and they were like, well, you shouldn't do a podcast about movies because you're going to share all your opinions and it would probably be bad.

[01:42:46] That's clearly the thing you have the most to say about, probably bad for your career. And then I started doing this and when I started doing the show, I had gotten fired off of Malini.

[01:42:57] I was being given nothing to do on vinyl which seemed like a sinking ship and I was like, yeah, this might not be going anywhere. I might just double down on stand up and doing this podcast and not try to really be getting hired by big production.

[01:43:10] So who gives a shit? And then this podcast has been charting the arc of me actually getting some modicum of a career under my feet. But I've tried to not like pull punches in that way. The way I always justify it and I feel like,

[01:43:26] I certainly feel this kinship with you because I hear you say stuff on your podcast where I'm like, I love that he's not holding back despite the fact that he's trying to work in this industry, which is my basic philosophy.

[01:43:38] But it's like if you really feel that strongly against something, you would be lying to yourself if you then went in and like said, oh, it's an honor and a privilege and tried to work for them. You know, like the directors that I shit on on this podcast,

[01:43:54] I would feel like a bullshit artist if I was hired by them to be in their movie even if I hadn't said that stuff on my. That's sort of my rationalization. You're going to get cast in like a Trevor.

[01:44:05] I know, probably this is going to bite me ass someday, but that's my rationalization. Okay, I say the same thing all the time. I let go like one of these days is going to come back to get me back.

[01:44:13] And the thing with that though is like Trevor knows that people don't like some of his movies. Well, does he? He knows now. I don't know if he knew. I mean, not before Stallor's hand know that Jurassic World was polarizing.

[01:44:28] No, he did because he had defended things like people would ask him, why'd you do this so he would defend it? So I guess he knew a little bit. But I think he thought the book of Henry was going to be a hit.

[01:44:39] Do you know what I think though? I mean, I feel like I'm always lying to myself, but I repeat this to myself all the time is like the justification for like stand,

[01:44:45] you know, by your opinions, you know, like speak openly on the podcast, share your thoughts is like, yeah, maybe it'll cost me a couple jobs, but someday it's going to get me the job that matters. Yeah, that's right.

[01:44:57] I imagine like Spielberg is going to call and be like, so first of all, I love blank check. And like there we go. I think that's what drives guys like you and I to be like,

[01:45:06] the one person you actually respect is going to be like, I'm hiring you because you said that movie was bad. Spielberg calls. I mean, honestly, I would die. What's up? What's up Spielberg? Guys, we got to wrap up. I'm sorry to push it. Yeah, no, no, no.

[01:45:21] You've got to go to the character. Yeah, Ben. We care about what's happening to you. Yeah, Ben's got to get his back. He has to coach. I do. We're all very, very busy. I'm going to walk in the park. Probably going to get a bagel. Yeah, let's go.

[01:45:34] Let's go walk. But thank you so much for being on the show. I have one to listen to Black Man Ketchup and Hollywood if they aren't already. Please do. What's wrong with you if you aren't listening? Yeah. Please remember to rate your views. Subscribe.

[01:45:46] Thanks to Ang for Guto for our social media, Lee Monk family for our theme song, Pat Reynolds and Joe Bowen for our artwork. Ben looks like he has something to say. Tune in next week for our episode on Justice League. That's right.

[01:45:57] Oh, next week we'll be Justice League. Next week we're going to be Justice League so we can talk about it then. We're recording these in advance. We'll do the big alone one there. Yeah, you're doing Justice League? Yeah. They won't let me do it because, you know, like...

[01:46:07] Because Cyborg's not the lead character. I mean, if y'all want like a Batman aficionado, I'm just saying. Maybe we'll bring you back here in two months from when we're recording this episode. That will then actually be released next week. Good call Ben. Good call setting that up.

[01:46:20] Justice League is next. And Happy Thanksgiving. And Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Because this is coming out around Thanksgiving. Wow. Happy Thanksgiving. We're looking far into the future. And this one knows what secrets will be held for us in that world. And as always, Hancock's a good movie.

[01:46:40] Oh yeah! I mean, I stand by that. 100% Hancock's a good movie. Flowers are my game. Doesn't make any sense. Well, that's just... I mean, what? You're a candy guy or a flower guy? Candyman's my last name. That was the name they picked at Alice Island. We were Candymenowski.

[01:46:58] And then my great-great-grandparents picked Candyman. Don't hold my name against me. It's not like I fucking chose it. No, it's great, but I'm... Sorry, I get defensive because I care about flowers and everyone thinks I'm coming with candy and I'm not. I'm Dan Candyman and I love flowers.

[01:47:14] I'm a pro for flowers. Sure. Tell us more about yourself, Mr. Candyman. Well look... He asked me... This is the word. Hey, you're laughing to my face. I'm a professional here. I'm a pro flower man. You are. My name's Dan Candyman. I demand to be taken seriously.

[01:47:41] We have to do this again. This is insane. Why are you laughing to my face? I had a call with Quince. This is not a comedy. I just care about their breakthrough character. We're gonna sell like, Dan Candyman animated series. Okay, ready? I'm ready.

[01:48:03] Are you gonna be professional about it this time? Yeah. Are we gonna behave ourselves? Probably. Because I came here to sell flowers and I'm gonna do a fucking ad-ery. Stop swearing! Okay, ready? Yep. Oh, can you get that Ben? I actually ordered delivery. Oh, okay. Yeah, sorry.

[01:48:22] How's it going? Who can plant a- Oh, that shit! I'm not being professional. Okay, I'm gonna be very serious this time. Jesus. What a situation. Ding dong, ding dong, ding dong, ding dong. Guys! Jesus. You should have said the first time we had something good going. Okay.

[01:49:07] Oh, God. His face is just full of tears. So when I looked it in, I wasn't prepared for that. Okay, don't look at Ben. No, I'm looking at him. It's fine. Okay, ready? Yep. Do you chill out? Oh, chill out. Oh, my God.

[01:49:20] And you're telling me this isn't a good bit. Look at how- I'm gonna make fucking Candyman t-shirt. Okay. Alright.