Dune with John Hodgman

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Blank Check with Griffin amp

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I must not podcast

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Podcast is the mind killer

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_08]: Podcast is the little death that brings total obliteration

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_08]: I will face my podcast

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_08]: I will let it pass over me and through me

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_08]: And when it is past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Where it has gone, there will be nothing

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Only I will remain

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Very good

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_07]: That's what you gotta do

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_07]: It's what you have to do

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_07]: You were running a couple lines before where you started recording

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Are you talking to me? Am I allowed to talk?

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm talking to you. Well, please talk

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Hi

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I feel like that you were doing a very good impression of a line reading from this film that you could also slot

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_07]: You were doing Kenneth McMillan

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Kenneth McMillan is Baron Harkonin

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Well in this movie, Baron Harkonin

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Not Harkonin

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_04]: In the new movies is Harkonin

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Which I think is correct

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if there's a correct

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Historically accurate

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess right, it's like do we go by how did Frank Herbert say it

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Or do we go by like how linguistically should this be said written out, right?

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_04]: These made up words

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's thousands of years in the future

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_05]: You can say whatever you want

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we don't know

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, which do you prefer?

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I default to Harkonin

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Just because that's what I grew up hearing

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Hearing, having seen David Lynch's 1984 Dune

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_05]: The film Dune

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_05]: The topic of this discussion today

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Celebrating it many times

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_07]: It's 40th anniversary

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_07]: 40th anniversary

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_07]: It's pretty wild for this movie to be hitting 40 in a year where a Dune movie is seen as the great triumph of the American commercial cinema

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_05]: The savior of theatrical presentation

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Is still the highest grossing film of the year as of this moment?

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean I guess

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that record will soon fall

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Inside Out 2 will surpass it

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Without a doubt, but it is the number one film of 2024 in June

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Hold on to it for six months

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I made 282 million domestic, 711 worldwide

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_07]: And all year people have been like, why can't we have more dunes?

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_07]: If we had a couple more dunes this year

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, people finally figured it out

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Dunes got the spice

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Dunes got the spice

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And he who controls the spice, controls the universe

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Spit, spit, spit

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I said you were going to put podcast in there, not trying to

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_05]: No, but I mean I was spacing out because I was enjoying the litany against fear

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Which you were referring to

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, absolutely

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_05]: One of the many self soothing recitations

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_05]: That the characters of Dune say to themselves

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Rather than move the plot along

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Here's another thing

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I used to recite that to myself in high school before tests

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_05]: The litany against fear

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I thought I heard so up

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think it's still valuable to me when I'm combating anxiety

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Or fear of ambiguity

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you still do it?

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I do, but I can never remember it all the way through

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, you used to have it verbatim

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_05]: No, I never actually

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I get hung up on the I will turn

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll let the fear pass through me

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And when it is gone

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I will turn and where the fear went

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Only I will remain or something

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_04]: That's where I get hung up

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I will face my fear

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll permit it to pass over me and through me

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_04]: If it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I really have a very distinct memory of trying to memorize that

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_05]: In the Harvard stop on the red line in Harvard Square

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I was going to go visit a friend there or something

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I will tell you, it's one of my favorite

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_07]: When I was in high school

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_07]: I will say this, non-hyperbolically

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to say it's one of my favorite moments in podcasting period

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Is when you brought your dear friend

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Friend of the podcast, patch and future guest

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_07]: David Rees on Doe Boys

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Very kind of you to welcome

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, you're connecting friends

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_05]: We were promoting Dicktown at the time

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is still available on Hulu

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Get your plugs in early

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Depending on what subscription service you have

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe watchable on Disney Plus

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Always be plugging I say

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Or in the spirit of David Lynch's Dune

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Always be heart plugging

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Very true

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_04]: What's your favorite moment?

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_07]: You brought David Rees onto Doe Boys

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_07]: He did not know the show well

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_07]: He did not know them

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_07]: You were sort of making this connection

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I forget how it happens

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_07]: But at some point he makes some side swipe

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_07]: At how bored he was by Donnie Villeneuve's Dune

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_07]: And said something to the effect of like

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_07]: What is this? None of this

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't understand what any of this is

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And you just went, I can tell you exactly what it is

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And then just like launched into

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_07]: What clearly was still

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_07]: The effects of you having memorized a bunch of stuff as a child

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I know

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_07]: You started like laying out the map

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Of explaining how the world works

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_07]: The world's

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_05]: This is a multi-planetary effect

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_07]: That's just the idea of someone being that close

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_07]: A friend of yours

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And someone you've worked with for so long

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Taking such a fucking hit

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_07]: At a thing that you love so dearly

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And basically framed it as like

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_07]: This is impenetrable

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_07]: No one could understand this

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the Reesian way though

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I don't think he would have said that

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_05]: If he didn't know that I already loved it

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_05]: But this is

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the Reesian jihad

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Your deepest heart song

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Is the worlds of Dune

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_07]: In many ways

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Is it?

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Is that kind of true?

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the podcast? Who's our guest?

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Way to sex

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it's blank check with Griffin and David

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a podcast about filmographies

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Wait which one of you is Griffin?

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm Griffin

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm David

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a podcast about filmographies

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Directors who have massive success early on

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_07]: In their careers and are giving a series of blank checks

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Make whatever crazy passion products they want

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Sometimes those checks clear

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_07]: And sometimes they bounce baby

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_07]: This is a mini-series on the films of David Lynch

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_07]: It is called Twin Pods Fire Cast with Me

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Today we are talking about his

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean his biggest bounce

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_07]: He has a couple bounces but the scale of this

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, there is absolutely no competition

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_07]: What would possibly be the competition?

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_07]: There are other

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean the fucking fire walk with me

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean I guess the other argument

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_04]: For the bounce right is like

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Twin Peaks getting away from him

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_04]: But no, no, Dune is obviously

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the definition of a bounce for us

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Because it's the moment where he's like

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I cannot, I must reorient my career

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So this doesn't happen to me again

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Fire walk with me, he's like

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I made the movie I wanted to make

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry, no way

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Well that's the thing about David Lynch and Dune

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is that this is the one

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_05]: That got away from him

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the one that got away from him

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And he bears the pain for that

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Apparently to this day

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_07]: The week we are recording this episode

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a new like news cycle

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Of some quote he gave in a recent interview

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Of like I died on that movie

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't think I've ever fully recovered

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Although it was very, very painful for him to

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean it was an uncomfortable shoot

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Many, many weeks are

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_05]: You want to make a movie in the desert

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_05]: It's gonna suck

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I have a theory that we can get into later

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_05]: That perhaps why

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean he says it's because he didn't get final cut

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is understandable

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's more to it than that

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a very clear deep wound

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_05]: That he feels about this movie

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_07]: We're watching this again just this morning

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Right before a record

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Hadn't seen this film in 20 years

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to say

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Easy two hours and 17 minutes

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I certainly watched it on TV

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_07]: 4x3 standard definition

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm trying to remember if it was a good version

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I was gonna say

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Which version did you see?

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_07]: I think I might have seen the extended television version

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is just nonsense I think

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I've never seen it

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not like an extended version in any real sense

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_04]: It's just they just put shit in it

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's quite odd

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_04]: We talked about this

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Waterworld episode behind the paywall

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_07]: But this, for a very long time

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Especially with like a big expensive movies like this

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_07]: If your movie had an odd running time

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_07]: It wasn't a clean half hour

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_07]: End time

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_07]: The studio would just

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Without the permission of the director

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Be like here's all the deleted scenes

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_07]: We have that are finished

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_07]: That you can just put in a narrative order

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_07]: That makes this movie totally shapeless and formless

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_07]: But allows you to have it

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Now it's a three hour block instead of it being

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Weirdly under two hour block

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_07]: You either cut it down or you add a bunch

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And Lynch hated them doing that so much

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_07]: That he demanded his name be taken off the TV version

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_04]: He's right, they should have done that

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_04]: It was uncool of that

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think that's what I had seen

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Well he had originally wanted the film to be like about three hours

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll talk about that

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_05]: But that's not his throughout

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_07]: What I was going to say watching today

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Knowing that he disowns it and felt like

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_07]: He didn't have final control

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_07]: It is fascinating how much this movie still

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Thoroughly has the editing rhythms of a David Lynch film

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_07]: It's 100% a David Lynch movie

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I think he overstates that

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_04]: He wanted to make a sequel to this movie

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Like he was not making this movie being like

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh God, what a disaster

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Let me get me as far away from this as possible

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Like he didn't like how it turned out

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And he didn't like what they did to it

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_04]: But like, you know, yes

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_04]: This is a David Lynch movie

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Through and through

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: The quote that we really should do

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Is the sleeper must awaken

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is like his most important quote in this movie

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Because he made that up, right?

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Like that's the thing where when you hear it

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is the line I associate with this movie

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think I saw this movie first before I read Dune

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_04]: It may or may not be true

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Like when I was a teenager

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I read Dune and I was like

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Why does nobody say the sleeper must awaken

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And then you realize like, no, no, no

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Not in there

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That's Lynch

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the transcendental meditative boy

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Reading Dune

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_05]: That's David Lynch TM

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's what speaks to him

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And transcendental meditation

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what's going on with Paul

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Like that's how I'm relating to this

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_04]: As he reads this book

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_04]: He cares about this material

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_04]: It's just, you know

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a weird result

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk about it

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of stuff I love about it

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's a weird result

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Essentially we'll talk about it

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You let me know

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk about it

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, John, let me know

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Can we talk about

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought we were going to go club random mode

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Ben has sunglasses on his doors right now

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_04]: There are some windows in our product

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_02]: What am I supposed to do with this fat ass sand worm?

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a fat ass

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_05]: He's smoking

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a sand worm pre-roll

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's like a stop motion sand worm

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_04]: It moves kind of slowly

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, yeah

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Ben's gone full random

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Our guest today

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Dear friend of the show

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, okay, our guest

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Co-creator Star

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Of Dicktown, now streaming

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Co-star and co-creator of Dicktown

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Still streaming on Hulu

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And also Disney Plus

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And also Disney Plus stars

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Depending on where you live

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And what subscription you have

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And host of the Judge John Hodgman podcast

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Every week on Maxman from the World

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to say something else about

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, have you said his name?

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously he just said his name

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_04]: As part of the show he hosts

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I should also mention

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_07]: I know this is a great shame of yours

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_07]: His book Vacationland is only available

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_07]: On hardback

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_07]: You can only get it in the firmest

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_07]: No, but that's not true

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Of foreign factors

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_07]: John, if it were available on paperback

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_07]: The biggest, largest book

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_07]: If it were a library edition only

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_07]: If it were available on paperback

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I would have heard about it by now

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_07]: With all due respect

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_07]: You're a good friend

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And I do think I would have heard

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_07]: If Vacationland were available on paperback

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_05]: That's what makes me so excited to announce

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Right here

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_05]: What?

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_05]: For the very first time

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Vacationland is available on paperback

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Wherever you get books

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_05]: As is my other book medallion status

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_05]: But can I get it with like

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_04]: John Hodgman

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_04]: John Hodgman's here

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Gentlemen, John Hodgman

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Can I get it with like plastic wrapping

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Around the cover?

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_04]: A real crinkly dust

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Crankles

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Dust guard

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Like a library edition

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll cook one up for you

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's the other thing, John Hodgman

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_04]: This is your fifth episode

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_04]: As a full-time guest

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_04]: On a main feed episode

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You have sort of dropped in

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_04]: A corlin

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_04]: A couple other times

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Such as on our Coraline episode

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_04]: A couple of cameos

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_04]: You had a couple voicemails

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Did they live?

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I've jacked my hands to a couple of them

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_04]: You've nanced it

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_04]: You've nanced it

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_04]: You watched Avengers Infinity War with us once

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Which was funny because you had

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Watched it the night before

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Thinking we were just going to discuss it

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't realize it was a watch

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not really bad about that

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_04]: That was really bad

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I had a really good time

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, wait a second

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And by the way

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_05]: When you say full-time guest

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I only wish it were true

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I wish this were my full-time job

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I wish this were my full-time job

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_05]: You're too kind

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_07]: You're hired

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Just come on, Lord

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Who cares

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And you know what, in fact

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_07]: You want to get in this gumbo?

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_07]: David and I are taking a sabbatical

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you know what, actually

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: You're Zoom

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to collect all the chat

[00:12:37] Yes

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_03]: FYI

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a pure licensing play

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to pay you an honorarium

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, of course

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I like it when they call it an honorarium

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And I mean like

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_04]: You mean money?

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_05]: It feels a little sess

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_05]: You're trying to

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll buy the franchise

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, go ahead

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_07]: A master builder

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_07]: If people often say

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Just maybe your best episode ever

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_07]: An incredible day

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Come in

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_07]: A major day

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Evil Dead 2

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, that's true

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_07]: This is 5

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_05]: What's the fourth one I'm forgetting?

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Buster Keaton

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_05]: College and Steamboat Bill Jr.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Double feature

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_05]: A big five

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But you know what?

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Master builder being the biggest

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm thrilled to be here

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_05]: But I've also never been more terrified

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Why?

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Well so this is what I was going to say

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_05]: This is such, I mean

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a big movie for you

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the unrecordable

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_05]: As much as Dune was the unfilmable novel

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the unrecordable podcast for me

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_05]: It is too massive a topic

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't want to

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_05]: There was so much

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_05]: If you just go quiet

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Emotionally stop speaking

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not saying that there's too much to discuss

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_05]: There's just enough to discuss

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_05]: It's fine

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I just feel like this has always been

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_05]: In our friendship

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Very big emotional topic for me

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_07]: One of the things I have heard you invoke

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_07]: The most often

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I just sort of know this about you

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: That this movie is important to you

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I think branching

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Frank Herbert's Dune

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_07]: The world of

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And then specifically largely within that also

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_07]: The Lynch film

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_07]: How major both are for you

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Well I have only ever read Dune

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I've never read any of the other books

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Interesting

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I've read some synopses of those

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And they seem too weird even for me

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_05]: John

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_04]: It's time for you to read the other books

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it right now

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Really?

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_04]: It's great

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_04]: We're having an amazing time

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Where are you at?

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in chapter house

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in the last Herbert book

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll admit the final

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_04]: How many thousands of years does that take place in after Dune?

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Quite a few

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Like yes

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean the fact that not to spoil things

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_04]: But to speak in the broadest of terms

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Dune Messiah is a direct sequel to Dune

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Children of Dune is about the children

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Of the people in Dune

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_04]: So you're still basically like

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like Dune babies

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And then God Emperor of Dune is like

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, 3,000 years later

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And you're like what?

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And then heretics of Dune is like

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, okay

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_04]: More thousands of years after that

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're like

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Well who are the characters

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And they'll be like

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Well this guy, his name is like Blark

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But he kind of looks like King Leto

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You know Duke Leto

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So kind of think of him as a Duke Leto

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Like it starts doing that to you

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And Duncan Idaho comes back

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And several cloned forms

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Is in every single book

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_04]: If there is a Dune book

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Duncan Idaho is coming out of a clone tank

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Being like

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_04]: What is it now?

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're like

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Hello, welcome

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_04]: It's the year 8 billion

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_04]: One of the top names in science fiction

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Because like

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Duncan Idaho is a great name

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Truly sounds like he picked that out of it

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Like two names out of a bingo ball

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Of potential names

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I hope he like took a whole day by the pool

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_04]: After he wrote down Duncan Idaho

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Being like

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not topping that today

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Like then it goes like

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Like Duncan Idaho

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Because Dune takes place

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_05]: 10,000 years

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Not in our future

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_05]: 10,000 years after the forming

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Of the spacing guild or something

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Correct

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_05]: So many thousand years into our future

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Plus 10,000

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And yet it's this whole incredible

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean this is what makes the book so

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Addictive, spice like addictive

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Is the world building that goes into this

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Where it is this massive

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Multral

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Massive cultural mishmash

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Of words

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I like that word

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a multral mishmash

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_04]: A multral mishmash

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Of words and concepts

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And religious concepts

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And sociological concepts

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Which I think is daunting

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_04]: To some new readers or whatever

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_05]: But when you get to the name

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And so there's a guy named Paul

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Fine to get it

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Jessica

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Jessica

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_05]: These are all real names

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_05]: When you get Duncan Idaho

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_05]: You're like

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_05]: How did we get here?

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_05]: To me there is at least 20,000 years

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Of future history

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And how we get to Duncan Idaho as a name

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like to Duncan Idaho right now

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Just sounds like a thing you could do

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You like to dunk an Idaho

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_04]: That feels like it's sort of like

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm dipping a cookie in something

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Duncan Donut should do a spin-off

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: They should do a partnership

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I was gonna say

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean here's the thing

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: How did that not happen

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I know it's crazy

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the only guy who's thinking money over here

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Ben

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Ben's always thinking money

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_07]: He's got that grind set mindset

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, that's just how I am baby

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You always got the dollar signs on my mind

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_05]: When Ben walked in with his friendlies hat

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Can I

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna say a swear

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like Jesus cock, that's a hot hat

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_04]: You said Jesus and I was like

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You really don't have to pre-apologize for that

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But then

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: May I use that quote

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I know in my marketing materials

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Jesus cock, that's a hot hat

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Please do

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_07]: That's incredible

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Duncan Idaho is a name

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Right?

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_07]: You're just like

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a great name

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Who could ever embody that

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's try it

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's not a guy I like all the time

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_07]: But Jason Momoa

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_07]: If he had any other name in the world

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_07]: It wouldn't be Duncan Idaho

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Duncan Idaho

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_05]: He just fits that so fucking perfect

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_07]: He made a lot of sense

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Richard Jordan as Duncan Idaho

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Doesn't make a huge impression

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_05]: In 1980s

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_04]: One of my least

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I like Richard Jordan as an actor

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_04]: He's amazing in what's it called

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Friends of Eddie Coyle

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is a movie you love

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Lots of stuff

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I was gonna say

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Are you telling me

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_04]: You lost another submarine

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Logan's run, right?

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_04]: He's in that

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Like he's a guy

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Great guy

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_04]: There are several bits of casting in this movie

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_04]: That I'm kind of like fine with

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_04]: But he's one of the ones where I'm like

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Right, there's no oomph to this

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_04]: What the matter

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Isn't this guy supposed to be fun?

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Right, I'm kind of like mega charismatic

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And you know

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Everyone loves Duncan Idaho

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_04]: It's the whole point

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why they send him first

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_04]: He just looks like

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_05]: He looks like your Irish uncle

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Who got sober about 15 years ago

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like really white-knuckling it

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_05]: On paper

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Not telling me what project this is for

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Just listing the actors

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And being like

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_07]: This is the cast of a David Lynch movie

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm like holy fucking shit

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Perfect

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to see him work with all of these people

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Some of these names

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Like Linda Hunter or whatever

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_07]: At least half of them are misapplied

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Or in one scene

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_07]: In the set up of the movie

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Make no impact

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Like who are you thinking of?

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_07]: I think Linda Hunt makes no impact

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_07]: When that should be a slam dunk

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not a huge role

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Jordan's a perfect example

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_07]: One that just doesn't fucking work at all

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean the ones that work are like

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I feel, I mean look

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_07]: We'll be talking

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_07]: We cannot do this episode

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_07]: As David Sims would say

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_07]: We're gonna talk about it

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_07]: We're gonna talk about it

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_07]: We cannot do this episode without comparing this movie to

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_07]: The Villeneuve films

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Which are experiencing this fucking like victory lap

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Of like holy shit this guy pulled off twice

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_07]: The thing that everyone had said for decades

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Was not possible

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think you look at the way he cast those movies

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_07]: And there's a lot of really smart strategic casting

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Of like this is not literal

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_07]: But A, I need to fill this movie with faces

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_07]: That are really comforting to audiences

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_07]: People who are just kind of

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Short-cut casting

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Short-cut casting

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Have your bird in walks in and people are like

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I get what this is

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And the same way you're like

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe the character as written isn't obviously a Jason Momoa type

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_07]: But Jason Momoa will give the energy that needs

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_07]: In a movie that doesn't have two hours to spend with this guy

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_05]: As opposed to the David Lynch approach to casting

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is let's find the weirdest looking character

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Actress we can't

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And then put boils on them

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Which usually works for his movies

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Because very often those people just have to represent energy

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_07]: This movie, and I want to make it clear

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I like this film a lot

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_07]: It played so much better for me on this watch

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Unsurprisingly for a number of reasons

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_07]: I do think there's something to like

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_07]: This thing has been adapted well now

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_07]: There is a pressure off of this movie

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And I also think watching it now

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Having seen the Villeneuve movies

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Not having read the books

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm like it's easier for me to track

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_07]: What's going on in the plot of this movie

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Because I can keep relating it back to the movie

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_07]: That is more narratively functional

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Look

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_07]: But it looks incredible

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_07]: But like Sting is an example of like

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Lynch doing the smart kind of casting

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone wants to see Sting walk out of that steam bath

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Totally

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_04]: With his winged cod piece

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Sting is great in this movie

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_04]: But I always forget that he is in this movie

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_04]: For five minutes

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Barely

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I think of him so

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Like his

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I think of him in an outsized way in this film

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's really like two scenes

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Especially when part two of the Villeneuve

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Is all built around that character

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Like this is what we've been saving

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_05]: So can I

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I've only ever read Dune as I mentioned

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But in terms of

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_05]: What age

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Well here's the thing

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_05]: In terms of my experience of David Lynch's Dune

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_05]: It is an epic story

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Encompassing multiple different books

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Of my experience

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Beginning with a prologue

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I go to my mom's nursing school reunion at Yale

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Humblewreck

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And I had

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_05]: That's right

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Talk about Club Random

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I had a great mom who was a nurse

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_04]: That's wonderful

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_05]: She went to Yale Nursing School

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Must be nice

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And we went to one summer reunion

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_05]: 1984, summer of 1984

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I know this movie is coming out

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I've got nothing to do at this nursing school reunion

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Other than lie around in a dorm room

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And try to read Dune

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_05]: How old are you in 1984?

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_05]: What are we talking about here?

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm turning 13

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Perfect age

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Nail it

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_04]: You know of Dune

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a best selling sci-fi work

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_04]: You certainly have heard of Dune

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And I know that the movie is coming out

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's why I feel much hyped

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I've always been a science fiction and fantasy

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Film and television nerd

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_05]: But in terms of books

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Book learning

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_05]: It was never

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I was not as deep into it as it might have been

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_07]: But here is a film being positioned

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_07]: As a major cultural event

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_07]: This movie is released with the energy of

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Here you go, here's the new Star Wars

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And not only that, the messaging of

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_07]: This is one of the things that inspired Star Wars

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_07]: This is the real shit

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm also a pretentious only child

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_07]: So I was gonna ask

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Lynch was on your radar already

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, of course

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Big for Man was a big release

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think I had seen a racer head yet

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_05]: But I definitely was aware

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And maybe I've seen Elephant Man

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And I knew that he was a really interesting director

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And Dune is this long reputation

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_05]: As being a very thinky book

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Which music terriers I assume

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I got very thinky ears

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to read this thing

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_05]: In my deep and deep study

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And I find it

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Unfucking penetrable

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Set it aside

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like, dad take me to go see

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Ghostbusters which came out that summer

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's what I remember from that period of time

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_07]: This is kind of an infamous summer

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Of just like pure pleasure

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Blockbuster movies

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Rightfully, house cop we just covered that one

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Like these movies that just like

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Fucking hit and just go down easily

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_07]: For everyone

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And I put Dune aside having read maybe two chapters

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Barely being able to understand what was going on

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I would say

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Very little, not knowing at all

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_05]: That this movie was gonna entwine itself

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_05]: With my life for decades

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Dune the book while largely readable

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I would say

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Does not hold your hand at the start

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And instead is kind of just like

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's just plunge your head into the ice

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_05]: It throws your hand into a box and causes pain

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Immediately

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Very true

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the opening scene

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And it throws a lot of words at you that are not

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_04]: English essentially such as

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Quezat's Hadarac, right?

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Where you're just like what Gamjabar

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_04]: What is this?

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Benadjeserit

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And you're just kind of like

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I think I had the same experience of

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I need to put this down

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't like read this in a relaxed way

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I need to read this with a dictionary or something

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And may I plug once more

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Heart plug once more

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll allow it

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, thank you

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I do have a sub-stack, hodgman.substack.com

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a post

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Available on paperback?

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_05]: No, available only in pixels

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a post titled

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_05]: A Secret Report to the Society

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a paywall

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like five dollars a month

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_05]: You can join and then delete it

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Beyond the paywall

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a 37 minute recording

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Of me

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Reading

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_05]: The first chapter of Dune

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Out loud in a thick main accent

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_05]: If that's your kind of thing

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_05]: You can hear me talk about that Gamjabar

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Quite a bit

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_05]: But that's just a little plug

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I think

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm thinking about the money, Ben

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You see what I'm saying?

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It's smart

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Trying to monetize this

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm seeing you hustling

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I love it

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, alright

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you very much

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I threw this all off

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_05]: No, no

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_07]: When I was nine, I believe

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm gonna say this

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Nine at the absolute oldest

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_07]: If not even eight

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_07]: My best friend in elementary school

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Was a kid named Keir Kramlik

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Great name

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Take it back

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Best science fiction name in the biz

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Kind of incredible

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Nine years into this podcast

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I've never named dropped Keir Kramlik

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Who I saw a lot of movies with

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_07]: When I was a stress

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Can you say it sounds like

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_07]: A Dune character?

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Where it's like someone comes out

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Of a ship and is like

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I am herald of the change

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Keir Kramlik

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_04]: K-E-I-R

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the name?

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_07]: K-R-A-M-L-I-C-H

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I will almost definitely get a message

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_07]: From him when this episode comes out

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Saying hey a bunch of people told me

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_07]: You said my name on the podcast

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Haven't spoken to him in a little bit

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_07]: But he was a voracious reader

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Love sci-fi

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Would constantly be recommending things

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_07]: To me

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'd be like

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_07]: This is a little bit tough

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Like for eight or nine

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_07]: He was pretty precocious

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_07]: In terms of what he was reading

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_07]: For sure

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And I remember him being like

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I-Robot rules

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_07]: And I was reading and I was like

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I can kind of go with this

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_07]: But I also understand

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd probably be more into this

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_07]: If I waited five years

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_07]: He got all in on Dune

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is insane to think about

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_07]: At the age of eight or nine

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Nine at the absolute oldest

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_07]: He was reading all of them

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_07]: And was just like

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_07]: This is the shit

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And this is around the time

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_07]: When the Star Wars Special editions

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Have come out

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe the year or two after that

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe that was his bridge to it

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_07]: But he was just sort of like

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_07]: We had just both gotten

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_07]: So Star Wars Pilled

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And was like

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_07]: You have to read this

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And I remember

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe making it through

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Half a chapter

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_07]: But just like

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_07]: This is impossible

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_07]: To what-

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Your point

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_05]: It's still-

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean having just read it out loud

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yesterday and recorded it

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Hodgeman.subtech.com

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I can tell you that

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_05]: It's still pretty opaque

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I now understand it

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so good

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_05]: But now I'm like

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Now I'm like

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And you know

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I did end up reading the book

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_05]: The book

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_05]: The book

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Probably, you know

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_05]: 25 years ago now

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And I loved it

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_05]: When I finally was ready for it

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_05]: But this-

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It's-

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_05]: You know there's a

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_05]: You know

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a section

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_05]: In this opening chapter

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_05]: In which Paul describes

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_05]: His meditation practice

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And it just becomes

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Simply drug language

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the kind of

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Non-sentence

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Non-complete sentence

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Drug language

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_05]: The exact kind of stuff

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_07]: That makes-

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Made people think

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_07]: For a very long time

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_07]: That this book was

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Fundamentally unadaptable

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Like are its key pleasures

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Things that do not

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Translate to a narrative

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_07]: In fixed time

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Especially relative to

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_07]: The inherent cost

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Of realizing this world

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_04]: When you watch this movie

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_04]: David Lynch's do

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_04]: 1984

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_04]: 1984

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I- and you have

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, now seen the

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Denis Villeneuve films

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Which I want to say run

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Probably combined

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_04]: About two-

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Five hours and 15 minutes

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Right?

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_04]: First one was like

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe two and a half

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Hours

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think they're

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Both like two and a half

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Second one I think

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Was a little longer

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Um-

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, so five hours and 15 minutes

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_04]: So I was watching

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_04]: David Lynch's do

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just going to clock where

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Villeneuve cut it off

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Right?

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Where Villeneuve decided

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_04]: To split the story in half

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is basically at the end

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Of book one

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_04]: In the-

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_04]: In the books

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_04]: The book is three books

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Which by the way

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Book one

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Was a complete story

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Before-

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, initially

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_05]: He serialized it

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_05]: In Analog Magazine

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Book one

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And then

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_05]: It was a couple years

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Before he came back

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And wrote book two and three

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Also serialized

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Before he came back

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I think also

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_04]: That some of the sequels were serialized

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_04]: It was how it was done back then

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_06]: It was how it was done

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, it's an hour and a half

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Into David Lynch's doon

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, is the end of Villeneuve's

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Doon part one

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Everything that he made

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_07]: The second film

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Is contained within 45 minutes

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Correct

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Including credits

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And my wife was watching

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_04]: With me

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_04]: My wife has seen the

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Villeneuve movies

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Has no other knowledge of doon

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And was shortling

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_04]: At the point

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_04]: That you know

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Suddenly Virginia Madsen's like

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, and then this happened

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And then she took the water of life

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And he did too

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And let's keep it going

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Like where you can just get this sense

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Of like

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, they just have to run

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Through the rest of it

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_07]: It has the most insane yada yada yada

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I have ever seen in a movie

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_07]: By the way

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_07]: They fell deeply in love

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_07]: They dated for two years

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_07]: His sister was born

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_07]: She grew to maturate it

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Warming

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Things that Villeneuve was like

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I think my audience can't handle

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_04]: At all

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_04]: The movie instead is like

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, she got born

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Then she grew up a little bit

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_03]: She could talk

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_03]: She's like a talking six year old

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You got that?

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, she's gonna be very important

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_04]: She'll have like five lines

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But like hugely important to the plot

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Kills the Villeneuve

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Respect to Alicia Witt

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_04]: My fellow Commonwealth

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Massachesis

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Have you seen the unedited footage of her?

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_04]: She has a little Boston accent

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_04]: That they dubbed over

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_04]: It is adorable to see

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Footage from doon84

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Of little Alicia Witt talking

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_04]: In like a mass whole

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Like high pitched

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_04]: She's from Woodsboro

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Originally

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_04]: It's very cute

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Sims's Hall of Fame well-timed crook

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I had a huge crush on Alicia Witt

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Specifically in Sybil

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Where she was of course

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Sybil's rude daughter

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you watch Sybil?

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I never did

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess I'll go

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Buck myself

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I love to bring up

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_04]: 90s sitcoms that people largely don't remember

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Such as Becker

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And Sybil is another one

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Where obviously Sybil Shepard was the

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm Sybil

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm basically Sybil Shepard

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Right, I'm this old messy actress

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But then Branceki ran away with it

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Branceki is her like

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Martini-swelling friend who's fun

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And Alicia Witt is like

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_04]: The uptight daughter who's like

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Mother, why do you have to be so crazy?

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to play concert piano

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Or whatever she wants to play

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Child's prodigy

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_05]: She's awesome

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Was speaking at the age

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Or reading at the age of two

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Playing piano concierge

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_05]: For David Lynch at the age of three

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Or whatever

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Got cast in this movie

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_05]: She's a great actress

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I agree

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_05]: But I feel your affection for her

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I remember learning that there was a young person

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_05]: From Massachusetts in this movie

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And it wasn't me

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I was a little mad about it

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh sure

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_07]: This is like me with a hidden panteria

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_07]: In the voice cast of Bugs Life

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_07]: How dare they cast any child

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_07]: That's right

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I was right here

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Even if I'm the wrong gender for this role

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And have no acting credits

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to go through more

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Of your journey to this

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Becoming such a key tech for you

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_05]: So that was the prologue

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_05]: When you're talking about doing

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_05]: You gotta have a lot of prologues

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_05]: But sir, you do see it in theaters

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_05]: After abandoning the book

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Like a coward

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this film came out in December 1984

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Now I'm all 13

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_05]: In the midst of my

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_05]: The dead center of my 13th year

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And can I just read for comparison

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_07]: A big budget film

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_07]: You have to imagine

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_07]: And want to end up on this list

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Here's speed round is what the top ten

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Highest grossing films of 1984 were

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Ghostbusters

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Beverly Hills Cop

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Indiana Jones and Temple of Doom

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_07]: The exact amount of uncomfortable

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_07]: That was still tolerable

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_07]: For an audience

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Controversial but not on this level

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Right?

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Then Gremlins, the Karate Kid

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Police Academy

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Footloose

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Romancing the Stone

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Star Trek 3

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_07]: The Search for Spock

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Splash

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_07]: America's going straight down the middle

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_07]: That's incredible

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_07]: That's an incredible run

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Ten like good blockbusters

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_07]: But like

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_07]: That's the temperature of the audience

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Have we just ruined the box office game?

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Or no?

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_07]: No

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_07]: What do you think Dune is on that list?

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I think Dune is number 23

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_04]: 32

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_04]: That is

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_04]: You had it

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Just reverse it

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Below teachers

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And cannonball run 2

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the kind of stuff

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It couldn't eclipse at the box office

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Teachers with Nick Nolte, right?

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_04]: You're telling me

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_04]: The classic poster

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Is it the Apple with the wick?

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_04]: The dynamite wick

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, dynamite wick

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I know the poster

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Also a great science fiction

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_04]: The three sets

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Bring me dynamite wick

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_05]: So December

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Tim McGonagall, my old friend and I

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Decided we're going to go see this movie

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_05]: We're both really into it

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_05]: My dad has known that I'm really into it

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_05]: He has gotten me this book

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_05]: The Making of Dune

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Which I handed

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I'd still have a copy of it here

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe he gets that to me

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Actually he might have given that to me

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_05]: For Christmas after I saw the movie

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I remember receiving it

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Going this is no longer necessary for me to read

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_05]: We no longer want to learn about everything

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_05]: We go to see it in Brookline Village

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_05]: At a movie theater that isn't there anymore

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_05]: My dad's friend Fred Sabini

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Had picked up some moonlighting hours

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_05]: As a manager

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_05]: He ripped our tickets

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he handed me and Tim

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_05]: The famous glossary

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Which was what Universal printed

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Because they were so

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_05]: They were anxious

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_05]: They were a little anxious about

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_05]: The confusion that people would feel

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Hearing so many different oddball terms

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Fremen, Arrakeen, Gamjabar

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Because this movie has no exposition

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah right

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not like this movie tries to lay any of it

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_05]: If things were not laid off into a worksheet

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_05]: In media race

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And I remember sitting down

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_04]: God I wish someone would hand me a glossary

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Before Blockbuster right now

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_05]: You would think that for me

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I would be hell yeah

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm one of those

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And I remember sitting there

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_05]: As a 13 year old looking at this thing going

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh no

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean I understand

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_03]: This will never work

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Right yes the general feeling of like

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_04]: If you're handing out glossaries at the multiplex

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_04]: You've lost your battle

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you yeah

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_05]: No one had ever seen this

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_05]: This has never happened before as far as I'm concerned

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think it's ever happened again

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like this kind of speaks to me

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I definitely am a reference book nerd

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And I love having to read this

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Because they're like

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Why who doesn't want to go to the library

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_04]: While they see a movie

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah precisely

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And I asked

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I really needed something to look at too

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Because this whole moment

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Was infused with this

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Teenage romantic charge

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Because there was a girl who was a little bit older than me

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Sitting next to me with her mom

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And the girl and her mom

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_05]: And I remember the girl was wearing

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_05]: A Canadian tuxedo denim jacket denim

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_05]: You know jeans

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Sort of the stillsuit of its day

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly so

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And she and her mom were talking about the novel dune

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And unlike me they had both read it

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Talk about a girl of your dreams

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah seriously

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Apparently you want to marry Anthony

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm getting goosebumps right now

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Thinking about it

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And she

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And she and her mom were talking about it

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And they were talking about their favorite characters

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And the mom said

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I think my favorite character is the sandworms

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_05]: What this mom is so cool

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_05]: This girl's also got to be very cold

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And she's like I agree with you

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And then she turns to me the girl

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And says are you looking forward to the movie

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And it is not an option for me to say

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Any words to a girl

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_05]: It was in fact not legal at that point

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_05]: No no no

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It was fatal to me

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_05]: It was my gamjabar

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Like if I

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_05]: If I accidentally flinched and turned my head

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And said anything to her

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I would die

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_05]: So this glossary gave me something to look at

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like yeah I'm looking forward to it

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Let me get back to

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_05]: What's

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_05]: What's Gede Prime exactly

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_05]: What's there is that in Relay

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I wish they had a map on here or whatever

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And then the movie came on

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_05]: The first 40 minutes of course

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Our exposition

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Multiple exposition drops

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Starting with Virginia Madsen

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Virginia Madsen's giant floating head

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Talks for about four un-tripped moments

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Fades out and then goes

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh also I forgot to mention

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_07]: It comes back

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Literally

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_07]: It comes back

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It's much more

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Second

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I kind of love it

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_05]: It's wild

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_05]: When she said

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And I've seen this movie multiple times

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I always forget

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_05]: That she goes on and on and on about

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_05]: She's the world

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_03]: One more thing

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah and then she comes back and said

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh I forgot to tell her

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Why who are you fucking talking to

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Forgot to tell who

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's before you even get into a secret report

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Within the Guild

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Where they then show you pictures of the planets

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Like doing all this work

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_05]: To get you to understand what's happening

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And none of it is working

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_04]: That's when I started stroking it

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_04]: If there's just like some

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_04]: 80s optical effect of planets

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Where they're like

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Here are the planets of Dune

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I know they do it better than I just did it

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_04]: But that was good

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I like it

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_04]: G.D. Prime

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you tell it's the bad one

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_04]: It's black

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm just so on board with that nonsense

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I know like you're saying

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_04]: You like it or you don't like it

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Or you said you stroke out

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_05]: When you see the

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_05]: No I'm stroking it

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_05]: It was a disgusting thing

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_04]: You slam in hand

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Do not do that in a movie theater

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_04]: That's not cool

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_07]: You have an arrow 4K

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Or the Tiki Theater

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_07]: What's it called?

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Tiki Theater

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_07]: The first time I tried to watch this

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_07]: On cable was I you know

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_07]: My budding

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Nerds in aphelia

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_07]: That I'm trying to level up

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_07]: David probably similar to this

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Anytime like a magazine

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Published like any sort of listicle

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_07]: I was like

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Well I gotta go through

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Here's a watching guy

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_07]: He was like 30 things

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Some magazine must have published some like

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_07]: The greatest box office disasters of all time

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_07]: It was always on those lists

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Movies that got taken away

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Where I'm trying to knock out all the flops

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_07]: The mega flops

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And I put on what I think was

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Extended TV cut

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And this shit starts

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm immediately like

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_07]: I am I'm never getting through this

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I think I did watch it to the end

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Probably spread out over a week

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I mean I might have recorded it

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Or saved it to a DVR

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Whatever the fuck it was

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_07]: But yes it's like at this point

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Now I love it

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_07]: You love it?

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_07]: You love this movie?

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I get a tremendous joy from this movie

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm saying I love the same thing you love

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is just them being like

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh right

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah yeah yeah

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But when you're 13

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_04]: You're not really all for that

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean even so

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_05]: At the end of the screening

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I you know this could

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_05]: This could be me writing memories

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_05]: But I feel like my memory was

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And Tim

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm still friends with Tim McGonagall

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_05]: So we've talked about it

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Congrats

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_05]: We both looked at each other

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Like what the hell

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_05]: You know like

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It obviously it did not work

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_05]: We were very confused

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_05]: It ends very abruptly

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Quite abruptly

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you're sent out into the lobby

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And then this girl's probably

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Gonna try to talk to you again

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_05]: So you gotta move very quickly

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And get out

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And try to process

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And so to injury

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Run interference

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Put on the blinders

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And you know as you say

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like it's not very parsable

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_05]: As a film

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_05]: It's hardly enjoyable

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean some of it is

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Freaking repulsive

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_05]: It almost feels

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_05]: By design antagonist

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_05]: No it's I mean it's not

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not a fun watch

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_05]: No

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And then it's over

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you're

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you're launched into

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_05]: The planet earth again

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And yet there are things

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_05]: That I remember remembering

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Like how did this

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Happen

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And the thing like

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Just starting with the costume design

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I was not a student

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Of film particularly

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I couldn't tell you exactly why

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_05]: None of it made sense

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Or worked together as a film

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I've thought a lot about it since then

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_05]: But simply like

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_05]: You're gonna have

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_05]: You're gonna have everybody in this sort of like

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Napoleonic Wars military costumes

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Very different from any science fiction film

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_05]: You'd ever seen

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_05]: The set design obviously is incredible

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_05]: It is

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_05]: It's obviously

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Building a world

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_05]: That is old fashioned

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_05]: In a futuristic setting

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Watching this on the 4K

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Lovely arrow addition

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Beautifully restored

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought to myself early on

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And I went let's see if this holds up

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_07]: If this opinion holds up

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Throughout the entire viewing

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_07]: I think this film

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Looks as good

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_07]: As any of the original Star Wars films

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it is pretty immaculate looking

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Obviously from a design standpoint

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_07]: But I also think save for like

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Like a noise

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Two or three shots

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I think almost all of the effects hold up

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Really?

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely not

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I love how this movie looks

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_04]: But at the end when they're writing the worms

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's the one sequence

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_04]: That doesn't look good to me

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_04]: You kinda need that sequence to look good

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_04]: That sequence is your hammer

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you know what I mean

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_04]: That looks good

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Looks pretty fucking good

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And you can go out and watch your D's

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Like oh take all of George Lucas's shit away from it

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Even with Matt Lines visible

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Fucking incredible

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I agree with him

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Whereas in the like

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean my 4K was saying

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I don't really know what's going on

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And then obviously what's going on is

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_04]: They're writing the worms

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And blowing everyone up

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_04]: But you still only

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Kinda just see the worms doing this

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Not really doing this

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like I needed this

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_04]: You know

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Everything else looks pretty good

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And for the listener at home

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Just because what David did was just visual

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_07]: At first he was doing this

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he started doing this

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Doing this

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I would say it was more of a this

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_07]: You're right no no that's good correction

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the sets are tremendous

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_04]: The sets are tremendous

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean the sets are better than say the Luke

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_04]: The first Star Wars where

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_04]: The Lucas Star Wars looks incredible

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_04]: But the janky

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_04]: You know not janky

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_04]: That's not the word but like the kind of

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_04]: The flimsiness of it

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Dirty is part of it

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's covering up for any

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_07]: It's part of that world that he's built on

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly and it shows coming

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Right it's very

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't want to be

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean it seems to say Star Wars has forecoming

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_04]: It looks great

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_07]: A lot of work they came up a lot

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Right thriftier

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_05]: But like smart

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And contemporary reviews was ro-co-co

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Incredibly elaborate

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_05]: But in terms of

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Lush and decadent design

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_05]: That spoke to the feudal system

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_05]: That this future world

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_05]: This future universe

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_05]: That I all worked on

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_07]: You think about like

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Star Wars from 1977

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And part of the great like

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Filmmaking magic of that movie

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Is how strategic they are

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_07]: In reusing certain elements

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_07]: The first one especially

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Right though they have the one hallway

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_07]: They have the one hallway

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_07]: That they can keep replicating or whatever

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_07]: This film I'm like

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Every 40 seconds someone walks into a new room

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_07]: That is an entirely custom built set

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_03]: They have incredible

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's like

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_03]: The halls of grandeur

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_07]: They keeps establishing new locations

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're like

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_07]: This isn't just they rearrange the furniture

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_07]: In that pre-existing room

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_07]: No

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm calling out more

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Think about Return of the Jedi

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Think about like these

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Which David Lynch was talking about

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why I'm thinking about it

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_04]: It's something that John

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_04]: That we're going to talk about

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I understand

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I understand

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate the tease

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_04]: You know

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_04]: This is not quite that

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_04]: You know

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Like forgetting even

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Return of the Jedi

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_04]: The space battles

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Which all look very nice

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And all that

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_04]: But just like

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_04]: When I think of the speeder scene

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Through the forest

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_04]: That's really insane

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Like that they pulled that off

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_07]: In 1983

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And the movement stuff

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Is the stuff that he specifically

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Fails on

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_07]: That is the thing that

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Lucas was so good at

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Lucas is right at the front of it

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_04]: It's beyond the fact that anything else

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what Lucas is pioneering

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Over and over again

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Like some new thing

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_04]: In visual effects

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is great for him

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Do I prefer this movie

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Till Return of the Jedi?

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh wow

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Probably not

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But do I think this movie is more

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Challenging perhaps

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Or ambitious than Return of the Jedi

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Over the years as I would revisit it

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a silly thing to compare

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Except for their sci-fi films

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Came around at the same time

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I think my fondness grew

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Starting with the

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_05]: The set design

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And the costume design

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Already

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Being very challenging to what my understanding

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_05]: What a science fiction movie was

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And sort of changing the game

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And having the courage of that conviction

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I had to say that that was undeniable

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Even as a young person

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And over the years as I would watch it again and again

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I would find new things to marvel at

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Like look what

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_05]: For a guy who's got this mortal wound

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_05]: That he couldn't put what he wanted on screen

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Look what he got away with

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And most notably

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the essentially opening

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_05]: After two different

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Exponential monologues

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Expositional monologues

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_05]: The first scene is

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Jose Ferrer

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Clays host to a worm

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Or not even that

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Not a worm because there are worms

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_05]: A third stage guild navigator

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Of course

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's call it what it is

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_05]: That there's a chill navigator

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is the scene that I return to

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_05]: All the time

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Not just because it's the first movie

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_05]: It's an incredible looking scene

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Starting with the whole court

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Which you barely see

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Like all of the costumes

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Just before they even bring a tank in

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And then there's

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Then he wheels in a tank

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_05]: That is like 20 feet high

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_05]: That is full of this fallacy

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_05]: With the vagina mouth and T-rex arms

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_05]: With blue eyes that's spitting out orange drugs

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_05]: And they have this conversation

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Unbroken eye contact

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I can't argue with what you're saying

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And surrounding him are a bunch of guys

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Who are going to turn into him

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_05]: If you know deep enough

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_05]: They should take it in a spice

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_05]: But you don't know that when you're seeing the movie

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_05]: You just see a bunch of bald guys

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Smoking vape pipes

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Wearing black leather suits

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is the look of the movie

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_05]: If you're not wearing Napoleonic dress uniforms

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_05]: You're wearing black leather suits

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Even in the desert by the way

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Great idea

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And a couple of them have these

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Mops and vacuum cleaners

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_05]: To clean up the effluvia

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_05]: That's coming out of this tank

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_07]: It looks like they're doing

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Like they're the guys with the brooms

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_07]: A curling

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Creating, they're slipping up the space

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_07]: That the tank's going to roll in and out

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry about the big guy

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_05]: You got to smooth down the surface

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And then

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_05]: They're mobile Zambonis, yes?

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_05]: What?

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Just when you think the story is getting going

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Then the emperor and the third stage

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Guild navigator get into a third long conversation

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is all exposition

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Ending with the third stage

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Guild navigator saying

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_05]: This conversation didn't happen

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I am not here

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he disappears

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like what?

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_05]: That Carlo Rimbaldi design

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Is so blatantly grotesque

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And sexual

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And unexpected and weird

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And that to me is the

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I would dare say

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm not going to say

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Linchpin, sorry

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_05]: No, do it

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Say it

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Ben just looked at me

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_05]: What do you think about that, Ben?

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes or no on Linchpin

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Ben's, oh his thumb is going to

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's up

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It's up

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the Linchpin moment where I began

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Sort of the whole thing began

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_05]: To unpack itself to me

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_05]: You lean forward a little bit

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm just like

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Every specific decision

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_05]: In terms of the look and feel

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Of certain sets, certain costumes, certain props

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Certain moments in the film

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_05]: They're so weird

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And so beautifully weird

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And he got away with it

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And not just weird for weird's sake

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But there is the

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_07]: It is an actual effective version

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Of the Linch magic where you're like

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_07]: This is tapping into some weird

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Subconscious nightmare thing

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_07]: There is a potency to this

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_07]: That feels like it is speaking to some unspoken

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Thing in the human condition

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Weirdly, even if the movie narratively

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Isn't always in concert with it

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_07]: As we've been doing these and you know

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_07]: We've recorded some episodes that will come out

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Long after this one

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_07]: So we've been jumping around

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And some Linch stuff

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_07]: He is really not a plotty guy

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Most of his films for how sort of

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Like naughty they can be

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_07]: If you actually break it down

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_07]: You're like

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_07]: There are a couple inciting incidents

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And then weird things happen in between

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Right? And his two most quote unquote

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Conventional sort of straightforward narrative films

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Are the straight story and Elephant Man

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Both of which hold Joker

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Like his two weirdest movies

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_07]: But Elephant Man is just like

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_07]: A man's life, right?

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_07]: It plays out in sort of series of incidents

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_07]: It does not have a plot

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_07]: That is pushing things forward

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And straight story is the sort of

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Like Pick or Ask Journey

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Where it's just like

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Gotta go from point A to point B

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_07]: This is the first and only time in his career

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_07]: That he's just like

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_07]: This movie is making

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm signing up to a movie

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_07]: That is going to make promises to the audience

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_07]: That it needs to fulfill

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Right? Like my clunky metaphor is

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_07]: It's the difference between

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Making a bracelet and making a watch

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Where you're like

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_07]: The only function a bracelet needs to serve

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Is you like the way it looks on your wrist

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Right? A watch there's a fucking promise

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_07]: That it's going to fulfill its end of the bargain

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Right? And this is a bracelet with a watch face

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Right? That is almost mocking you

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_07]: And there's like

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_07]: The machinery inside is on fire

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a melting dial and like a dolly

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a dolly watch

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to compare this film to the Denny Villeneuve movie

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_04]: The whole time because I do think at a certain point

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, what's the point?

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think the opening is pivotal

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_04]: The Lynch film opens with yes

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Virginia Madsen

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, can I tell you some stuff?

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is right from the books of course

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Every chapter you've got

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Princess Eurilons

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Essentially what you're realizing

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Propagandistic diary

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_04]: That she's written post facto

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_04]: About the events of Doom

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's more than one

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Like she's writing

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a Maud d. Breeder for Children

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_05]: That she writes

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a history of Maud d

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I love it

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And you know

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_05]: You gotta love a beginning as a delicate time

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_05]: All great

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a terrific line

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_05]: That's announcing

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to have some problems with this film

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And then as you say

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_04]: There is informing you of the planets

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Here they are

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, and then there is a scene

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is not in the book

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_04]: It is essentially making subtext text

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Because in the book we know this happened

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's never shown

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That the emperor meets with the space and guild

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And the space and guild is like

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Do this

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_04]: You know

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_04]: But put

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I don't like the Atreides fine

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We agree

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Put them on the Spice Planet

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's have the Harkinans do our dirty work for us

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Blah, blah, blah

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_04]: They're all talking about this

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_04]: An audience, even with a glossary

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Is like

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Who are you talking about?

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_04]: What the fuck are you talking about?

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Vilnav starts with the Atreides family

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, he actually starts with like

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Which rocks

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Just so you know

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_03]: You're in for like weird times

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But then it's like

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Here is the father

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Here is his son

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Here is where they live

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Here is what they

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Here is the mom

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_04]: She's teaching her son to be weird like her

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the weirding way

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_04]: They live on a nice wet planet

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_04]: They have to go to a dry planet

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_04]: We're entering with people

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_04]: We gotta move this bull head

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Like we know that we're moving

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Because we're creating up the bull head

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And like

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And now meet Duncan

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And now meet, you know

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Therpher and all this stuff

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And then yes, yes, yes

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna eventually lay out

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Some wider context for you

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Through dialogue

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Through some little film books

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_03]: That he reads

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_03]: That's fine

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, right

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But slowly

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So you actually know who this is happening to

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you're showing not telling?

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, that's a writing term

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_05]: That I just invented

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_05]: But I mean

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I think even as a 13-year-old

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I understood that this glossary announced

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_05]: We have no faith that we can convey

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_05]: The information

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Correct

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think having people just be like

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_04]: So this is what's going to happen

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_04]: In the movie

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, to kick it off

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And information becomes the enemy

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Because the more

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you would think

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, oh, let's show you the four major planets

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_05]: But all of a sudden

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I got four names in my head

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_05]: You got four names in your plans also?

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Caledan, Arrakis

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Also known as Dune

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Now here's the thing

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Like one of the great wounds

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Of this film for David Lynch was that

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_05]: He didn't have final cut

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And in the midst of the production

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_05]: He started to have cut a whole bunch of stuff

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Because they were running out of money

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_05]: One of the things you read about is that

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Where he left his imprint

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Isn't on the whole movie

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's in moments

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you know what I mean?

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Like

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_05]: The things that he fought for

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_05]: That he had to sneak a David Lynch movie

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Into a David Lynch movie

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Having been said

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_07]: The movie opens

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And immediately you're like

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_07]: He got them to let him do the fucking

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Industrial ambient droning noise

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Throughout the entire

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_03]: How did he win that argument?

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_07]: This is cool

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_07]: No, I agree

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, sure

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Like it's so odd

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_07]: The things that they let him get away with

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Versus what he says

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I think he feels like he failed on

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_05]: What I would say is that David Lynch

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, like

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_05]: For all the studio interference

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_05]: One thing that if I were the executive

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Or if an executive

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_04]: So you're a large Italian man smoking a cigar

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm Dino De Laurentiis

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Or whatever

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_05]: But I was like

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_05]: If I were one of these guys at Universal

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Can we just call them planet dune?

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, do we need to say Arrakis?

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Arrakis

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, and that's from the book obviously

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_05]: They're constantly saying Arrakis

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Dune, desert planet

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_05]: There's three words for the same

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Three things for the same for one thing

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And the whole movie is indulgent

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And opulent in that way

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_05]: It makes for wonderful world building in a book

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_05]: But in a movie it's like

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I can't just give it one name

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Call it Arrakis or Dune

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I hate it

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, and the terminology it says

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Arrakis is the desert planet known as dune

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Benz seems like a glossary

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I know that's in the glossary

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Which they also directly say again

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_07]: In the film

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, and they're saying it all the time

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And their idea is

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_05]: If we say this enough

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And also

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_05]: If we do enough internal monologue voiceover

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Then people will get it

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_05]: But in fact

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_05]: All that information just makes me turn off

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_04]: There's an awful lot of like

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Something is happening

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And Paul then thinks like

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_04]: You'd be bad if I did that

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna have to do that

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Where you're just like

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_07]: This is the thing that's so well about this movie

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And I do

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_07]: I now have gotten to a place

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Where I love it as an object

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_07]: As a weird thing and experience

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Me too

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_05]: It's very beautiful and weird

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_05]: In a very David Lynchian way

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_05]: A deformed object

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_07]: It has perhaps the greatest percentage of dialogue

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_07]: That is expositional

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Of anything I have ever seen

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is especially crazy in a Lynch movie

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_07]: It is like 90% exposition

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_07]: There's almost nothing that happens

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_07]: That is said between two characters

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_07]: That has anything to do with them

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Relating to each other

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_07]: As emotional creatures

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Again

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_04]: This is obviously what another film hit on

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Is there needs to be a lot of emotion

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Built into this

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Things like focusing on

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_07]: The Lady Jessica Paul relationship

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_07]: The Paul Chani relationship

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Which like the whole second movie

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Is built around Chani

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And in this film

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Once Paul and Chani actually meet

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_07]: They have less time together on screen

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Than in the first movie

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Where the whole point is

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_07]: She's kind of just a cameo at the end

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Now to be fair

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_04]: The book treats Chani as an object

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_04]: To you know

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Like she's not a particularly important character

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_04]: In the book either

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_07]: But that's smart Vilnav strategy

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Shit

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I'm saying

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_04]: But let's talk about Dune

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm opening the doc saying

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_07]: I just wanted to add the one thing to this

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_07]: He was saying

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_07]: It is so wild

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_07]: When you're like starting with the multiple

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Like prologue table setting things

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Then every character speaks exclusively in exposition

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And then like 12 minutes and they introduce

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Also

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_07]: We hear characters internal monologues

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And their internal monologues

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Are additional exposition

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just too much to take in

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And as you point out

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_05]: They double

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_05]: The internal monologues usually double

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_05]: The information that the characters are giving

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Using their

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Not only their voice is the voice

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And the Lynch dream state thing

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Is what's potent about this movie

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_07]: It makes him a good fit for Dune

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_07]: In theory

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_07]: But you feel something in the inexperience

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Of and this is

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Leeds, Reckley, and Adossier

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_07]: It being insane that this is his third movie

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_07]: That the arc is

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Weirdo midnight movie

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_07]: He basically self produces over five years

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_07]: With film school friends

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_07]: To surprising jump

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_07]: To prestige critically beloved

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_07]: But fairly already sober

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Highly emotional drama

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And like arch period piece

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_07]: To then Hollywood being like

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Well obviously he needs to make a big sci-fi

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Blackbuster next

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_07]: That it's not just that he makes Dune

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_07]: But that he makes Dune after being like

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Dune is the right choice for me

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Over return of the Jedi

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_07]: And that you feel him going like

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know how to quite do this

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't trust myself to

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Figure out other ways to convey this information

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_05]: To me trust is exactly what's lacking

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_05]: In this movie overall

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Like the studio didn't trust Lynch

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_05]: He got entrusted initially by the dealer

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Well let me open the DOS

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_03]: David use the voice

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay I really should use the voice

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Use the voice

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Be quiet and let me talk now

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_04]: David Lynch made the elephant man

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_04]: It was a hit

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_04]: It was nominated for best picture

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_04]: So obviously now he

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_04]: It becomes a director that studios wish to hire

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_04]: He wishes to make a film called Ronnie Rocket

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_04]: We've already talked about it

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Every time

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_04]: About a boy who is electricity

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_04]: He wants to make Ronnie Rocket

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_04]: He actually comes close now

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Because he has real clout

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Zoetrope

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Francis Ford Coppola's you know

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_04]: House of Madness

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I was gonna say great at actually getting movies made

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Especially in the 1980s

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Incredible at having an idea that seems

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Crazy and executing in a way that is

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_04]: After hit after hit

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely people go to see all of them

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Like basically so

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_05]: One of the only studio slates

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_05]: They're like I'll just see whatever they release

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Because it's gonna be a hit

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_05]: You're gonna go check out that new American Zoetrope joint

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_04]: MCU of its day

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So he's then offered return of the Jedi

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_04]: His agent tells him you get this job

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_04]: You're gonna get three million dollars

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's in 1980

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Whatever

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_04]: 1983

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_04]: 1982

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And what's a big part of the promise

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Of getting a job like return of the Jedi

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a double-edged sword

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_07]: One is they're not totally gonna let you

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Sink or drown in this thing

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Because Lucas has some quality control

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_04]: There will be a lot of guardrails around you

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_07]: But the flip side of that is

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not your purpose

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not ever gonna totally be your thing

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_04]: 100%

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_04]: So he

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Lynch recalls basically

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_04]: He goes to San Francisco

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_04]: He goes to a place called Egg Company

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is near the Warner Brothers lot

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And is handed an envelope with a credit card

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_04]: A key and an airline ticket

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And then

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry, no he did that in Los Angeles

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And then the airline takes him of course

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_04]: To San Francisco

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's brought to George Lucas

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And he says he was very flattered

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_04]: You know

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't know why I went

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Star Wars is not my cup of tea

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I have to say I was very flattered

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_05]: To meet George Lucas

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, Star Wars wasn't my cup of tea

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_05]: He said

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_06]: They wore a nice flannel shirt tucked into

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Blue

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Dungary jeans

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_04]: As he

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_04]: This is the line I remember

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I've seen him say it I think

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_04]: His neck was so fat

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't that fat back then

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay give him a break

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay it wasn't 90s Lucas

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't 80s Lucas

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_04]: It's probably middle

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't full bullfrog in it

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Wasn't full bullfrog

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_04]: But he's buttoned in that top button

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_04]: You can't stop him

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Doesn't matter how big the neck is

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_04]: He started talking to me

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And I started getting a headache

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_04]: That got steadily worse

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_05]: George can I give Jabba the hut

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Of a giant mouth

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I feel like he always talks about

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_07]: The moment where George started explaining

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_07]: The Ewoks

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Being the moment that broke him

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean obviously fundamentally

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_04]: He says

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I did feel pressure to say yes

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I did respect him

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And this obviously was a big gig

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_04]: But I didn't want to do it

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_04]: He says to his Asian

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't do it

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel all this pressure but I can't do it

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And he says you don't have to do it

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Calls George says no thank you

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_04]: George is like 100%

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't worry about it

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Lucas in retrospect

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Is like I might have gone a bridge too far then

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you know that might have been crazy as much

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I have deep respect for the guy

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But it is so hard to do it

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Lucas is saying maybe I dodged a

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_04]: A weird

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_05]: When you look at Richard

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_04]: A bullet full of weird

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Mark Haunt and Return of the Jedi

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And everything you hear about that movie

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Lucas is very very hands on

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Much more than empire

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I cannot imagine how that would have worked

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_04]: With David Lynch

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_04]: They wouldn't even thought or

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Probably lynched

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Sensed that he was going to get a very

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Very strong and empowered creative collaborator

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is not what he was looking for

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Here's the other part of it

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_07]: I think about him doing that movie

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_07]: In particular right

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_07]: A film I have great love for

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_07]: The third Star Wars movie

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Not the second

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_07]: A film that in my adult years

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I have now come to recognize

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Some of the failings

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Right the creakiness that does not exist

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_07]: In the first two films

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_07]: In my opinion

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_07]: It's still a good movie though

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I agree it's got some shit in it

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_07]: That's like my favorite shit

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_07]: In all of Star Wars

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_07]: If not some of my favorite shit

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_07]: In all of movies

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_07]: That stuff is the stuff

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_07]: That I could see Lynch totally nailing

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_07]: But to be fair

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_07]: The whole Jabba stuff

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_07]: The whole first 30 minutes

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_07]: You're like Lynch would go

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Fucking hog wild on that

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I actually think he would probably

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Do a good job with the final chunk

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_07]: With Luke and the emperor

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And Vader

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I think he could kind of handle

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_07]: The sort of like

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_07]: A monstrous sort of

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_07]: A sort of broken man

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Inside of Vader

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And all of that sort of reveal stuff

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Like there's stuff in it

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I think he would do an incredible job with

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_07]: But that is the stuff

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_07]: The movie already does excellently

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And everything that I think

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Is a failing in that movie

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I think Lynch would have been

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Completely confounded by

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think he would know

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_07]: How to handle anything in Endor

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_07]: You know I don't think he would

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Have known how to solve like

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Han Solo having nothing to do

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_07]: In that movie

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_07]: I wouldn't like to see

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_07]: An Ewok designed by David Lynch

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that would scare me

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_07]: No and if it was Lynch having

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_07]: To direct an Ewok designed

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_07]: By Lucas' team

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_07]: You could see the movie

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Having a feeling of disinterest

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Whenever it was on screen

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_05]: So in the dossier David

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_05]: When he turns from ROTJ

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_05]: To DUNE

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_04]: He does not yet

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I will say he was offered

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_04]: A couple other projects that are

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Richard Roth approached him

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_04]: To direct Red Dragon

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Which of course eventually

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Michael Mann makes as

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Manhunter

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Would have been interesting

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_04]: That is when

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_04]: He pitches Roth on Blue Velvet

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_04]: We talk more about that

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_04]: On our Blue Velvet episode

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_04]: But that's sort of the germ

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Of Blue Velvet

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Where Bay School Lynch is like

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Manh, keep thinking about

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Like hiding in a closet

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Just spying on a woman

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Roth's like

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Got any more?

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_04]: That's all I got

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_04]: He's also offered

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Tender Mercies

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_04]: The Robert DeVall movie

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is a lovely

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Quiet drama

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_04]: That is again

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_04]: A little hard to see

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Lynch doing

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_04]: But some of the straight

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Stories speaks to it

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_04]: It's very similar

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to say

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_07]: That's very much a match

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Sensibility

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Lynch thinks

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Not right for me

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Turned out to be a great movie

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_04]: In his opinion

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_04]: He was also approached

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_04]: By Cameron Crowe

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_04]: To direct Fast Times

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_04]: At Ridgemont High

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I have no idea

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_04]: What that meeting was really like

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Or what that movie would be

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Why is this happening?

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_07]: It's so weird to think of

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_07]: This guy making

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Crowe says very, very sweet

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_04]: About it

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Slightly perplexed

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_04]: That we thought of him

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Got into a white BW bug

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And drove away

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_05]: David Lynch wasn't a brand

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_07]: I was going to say

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Like here's this guy

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Who has established himself

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Very quickly

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And yet it feels like

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Hollywood doesn't have a handle

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_07]: On who he is

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_05]: What had come out was

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Eraserhead and Elephant Man

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And Eraserhead is a weird

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Student film

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Doesn't count

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_05]: For a lot of people

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just saying

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And then the normies

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Look at the

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Elephant man

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Weird makeup

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And everything else

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_05]: But it is kind of

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_05]: A by the numbers

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_05]: In a way

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But also

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_07]: He's made two

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Movies about

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Sensitive weirdos

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And the pain of existing in society

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_07]: That are shot in

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Like very arch black and white

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_07]: What are you talking about

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_07]: You're talking about Jeff Spicoli

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, of course

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_07]: With like

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Top to bottom clanging

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Those two movies

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Are very similar

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_07]: In a lot of ways

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Well then you see

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Elephant Man

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_07]: And Judy Garmark too

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's like

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Now what if we give this guy

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_07]: A real thing to make

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's just funny

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_07]: To think like

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Well clearly this guy

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Is a chameleon

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Who could make any type

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Of movie

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that it was just like

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_05]: He was the guy everyone was talking about

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_05]: So he's going to get all these conversations

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Just be funny to bring in Judy Garland

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: To a Lynch movie

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: She could sing

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Clang, clang, clang

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Goes the wrong way

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Hold

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Hold

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Hold

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Rafaela de Laurentiis

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Meets with Dune

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_04]: In about 1981 or two

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Saying

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_04]: My daddy Dino

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Has acquired

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Dune

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you can handle it

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_04]: They met

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And she loved him right away

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Dino loved him too

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_04]: My father loved directors

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And he thought David was as good

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_04]: As Fellini, she says

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay

[01:05:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_04]: He might be

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_04]: They're kind of in similar worlds

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Dino does

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: According to the dossier love him so much

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Except

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_04]: He didn't like a racer head

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_04]: He liked the elephant man

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, that's 50-50

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I would say

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But he's sort of saying like

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I want the elephant man Lynch

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Not a racer head Lynch

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And I would say if you're saying that

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_04]: You may have already misunderstood

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_04]: What you're getting with this guy

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I would agree

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I, you know

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't really know how you're distinguishing it

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Except that yes

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_04]: One is a more abstract plot

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_04]: One is not

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_04]: But those movies have tons in common

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_04]: It's just that one is a

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, more straightforwardly sad story

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_04]: About a terrible, you know

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Situation that a person was in

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And the other one is a racer head

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is also

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Honestly, that as well

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Lynch says, Dino calls him

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And says I want you to read this book

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_04]: June and Lynch is like

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_04]: June and he's like

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_04]: No, June

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And he goes on like this

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And Lynch had never read the book

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Reads the book

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_04]: This is the part that I don't understand

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_04]: But I guess love the book

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_04]: If I'm David Lynch reading Dune

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I would kind of be like

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_04]: This is too much to handle

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_04]: People all over the world love this book

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_04]: It was a huge

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_04]: To be clear, I love the book

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I know

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But I just

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_04]: If I'm just kind of like tossed Dune

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Like hey, why don't you check this out

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_04]: First of all, you better duck

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Because if it gets you in the head

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to be hurt

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_04]: But you know, and you crack it open

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to be like

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this would be easy

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I'd be like Jesus

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_04]: How the hell do you do this

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but don't you think that

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_05]: That's what animates David Lynch

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_05]: To a certain degree

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_05]: That and the fact that instead

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Of working with a control freak

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Like George Lucas in San Francisco

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_05]: He's working with two Italian

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Mother, I mean a father-daughter

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Producing

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Who are a little bit outside of the

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_05]: A little bit more male or a little bit

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_05]: A little bit more male or a little bit more

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, what are the De Laurentiis

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_05]: What's the book on the De Laurentiis family

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_05]: At this point

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a really good question

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh god, we have so much to talk about

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, what's the book on Dina De Laurentiis

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Griffin

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I just don't remember

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_04]: He starts making movies in like the 40s

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_05]: But what was he known for

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Well the first Conan had happened at this point

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Barbarellis or

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_04]: First Conan has happened at this point

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, 82

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I think Conan the Destroyer is 84

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: King Kong, the

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_04]: That's a big one

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Like he does these big genre films

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_04]: That do have an arty twist to them sometimes

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but with like a pulpy Italian arty

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Kind of shabby element to them

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But like, he starts out in Italian films

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_07]: He does a lot of genre stuff

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_07]: He does Fellini stuff

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_07]: He's one of these guys who's just like a fucking mogul

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And he does 70s and 80s

[01:08:03] [SPEAKER_07]: He's trying to do big epics

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I do feel like he loves the movies

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, not in a negative way really

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_04]: But he's a big bossy guy

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_05]: But if I'm David Lynch and I see these two

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Charismatic Italian people

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_05]: One of whom has, you know, made Barbarella

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I would be much more inclined to be like

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I can probably work my way into this world

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Better than I can work my way into George Lucas' work

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not just like he did Serpico

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, he did like fucking

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean Barbarella we said

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_07]: John Huston's The Bible in the beginning

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Like just a very weird swath of movies

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Here's the thing I want to bring up

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_07]: As a conversational topic

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Hollywood loves when anything is a success

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Trying to figure out how to copy it

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Run into the fucking ground

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Dune was positioned so much as

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Here is the next Star Wars

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_07]: It is coming out a year after Return of the Jedi

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_07]: So Star Wars has been a thing

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_07]: At this point for over six years

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_07]: No one else really tries to do Star Wars

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Star Trek, I would say

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_07]: You know what? You're right

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_07]: But it's such a weird example

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Because it's like reviving another thing

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: It is

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: But Star Trek The Motion Picture happens because

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_04]: They're like fuck

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Star Wars scooped our ass

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_04]: But here's my point I guess

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_04]: A big space opera thing? There had been the Flash Gordon movie

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Let me pin this

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Because it's like certainly

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Star Wars legitimizes sci-fi

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Which had, you know, it sort of

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Post 2001 run, I would say

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_07]: This is presuming you accept Star Wars as a science fiction film

[01:09:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I'm gonna pin that as well

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_07]: 2001

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Leads to a spat of things like silent running

[01:09:48] [SPEAKER_07]: You know these movies that are like very heady

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_07]: And are serious and grown up

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And sort of more art sci-fi

[01:09:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Clean and streamlined in their design

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Very, very specific tomorrowland look to them

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Then Star Wars becomes an industry in and of itself

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Popularizes this sort of space opera

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Sci-fi fantasy as an A picture

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_07]: A legitimate A picture that is making so much money

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And is like we built a world here

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_07]: This is expansive, this can run forever

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And then the immediate things you get in the wake of Star Wars

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_07]: I would say the Star Wars halo effect are like

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Alien perhaps being a pitch that is more warmly received

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Because it's like well audience is like sci-fi

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_07]: This is an R rated slasher film

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Blade Runner, we got one of the stars of Star Wars

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_07]: But it's doing a weird sci-fi noir

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_07]: No one's trying to do the big like

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Two-fisted four color sort of sci-fi fantasy epic thing

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Build a world, I would argue Crow is one of the only ones

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_04]: There's some, okay there's Crow

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_04]: There is Flash Gordon, that was a big movie

[01:10:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Flash Gordon I want to put as this category of things like

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Last Starfighter, like the Masters of the University

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Where it's like one foot firmly in our reality

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Right? Those movies all have the like

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Here's a normal guy who ends up in space

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Or here are space people who end up in Earth

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_07]: This sort of Star Wars dune, crow thing

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Of course on television you had Battlestar Galactic

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is a full-time response

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_07]: There's almost more of a direct influence on television

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Than people taking the big bet of like

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_07]: We have to invest in building a whole world and the movie starts

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And Virginia Madsen's face has to explain everything to you

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Still feels like a thing they find daunting

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_04]: It is daunting, it's obviously a major ask of people

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Crow is a funny one, but Crow has fantasy

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: To sort of keep it grounded a little bit

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And I would say that you mentioned that Star Wars

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking at a sort of sci-fi list right now

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_05]: As an A movie and it was obviously a very successful movie

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think that at the time like

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_05]: 2001 was an A movie made by a serious director

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_05]: It is so indebted to 2001 I would say

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Right more, but you know Star Wars and

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Star Wars and Jaws in 75 and 77

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Legitimized the B movie

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_05]: What they became was high quality B movies

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_05]: That a lot of people in culture still turned their nose up

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely, and were like still parodied

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was not cool

[01:12:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously George Lucas I think would basically admit

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_04]: That he did, he was heavily inspired by Dune

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_04]: He has no question

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And obviously Dune

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_04]: When the more you learn about it

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_04]: The more you read the sequels especially

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And just Herbert in general

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_04]: You're getting one man's very particular

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Historical and political thoughts and interests

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Crammed into this crazy sci-fi narrative

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And beyond that things like the Ben & Jesser

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Where Frank Herbert is basically like

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_04]: What's up with nuns?

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I went to Catholic school, those people are crazy

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Things like that

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Lucas is kind of like right

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_04]: The Fremen make so much

[01:13:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I never thought of the Gamjabbar as being a ruler

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_05]: That a nun would hit you with

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so deeply rooted in him being scared of nuns

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Which I, nuns are scary

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_05]: You ever see that nun? The nun?

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Well she's no good

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And she's actually in Mulholland Drive right?

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yes, yes

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_05]: She's the lady behind the dumpster

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Whatever, anyway

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Gotta watch out for the nuns

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And the nun too

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Not just the nun, also the nun

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And then Lucas stretches the nun

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's running now

[01:13:33] [SPEAKER_07]: None too hyper, none

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Do the voice, if you want us to stop doing bids

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_07]: You gotta do the voice David

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Lucas stretches I think the guerrilla stuff

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_04]: The Fremen right into this more broad narrative

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Like Lucas is obviously like this is like

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_04]: The Viet Cong, right?

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Like Revolution, threat history

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll make it a little vaguer

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And the force wouldn't exist without

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_05]: All in our journey

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_05]: All of the kind of

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_05]: The force in Star Wars is like dune without the drugs

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I would have loved to have seen the trench run

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_05]: With that like Huffing Spice

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's true

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Like Lucas is like I can't read my targeting computer

[01:14:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I just threw up all over it

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Spice orgy before they get it

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_04]: It is a little bit

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And the force is just like further abstraction

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Right, like in dune it's kind of like

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_04]: You can connect to everyone in your bloodline

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_04]: All the way back

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And the force is kind of like

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_04]: The force is just everyone's energy

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Kind of connected all of life

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_04]: But also it's a blood disease as we've litigated

[01:14:32] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a blood disease and it means that you can like

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Pull something that's like

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You know you ever wanted a serial bowl

[01:14:36] [SPEAKER_04]: That's like kind of far away

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what the force is for

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Star Wars is so wonderful and accessible

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, because it's like

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Here's a big metaphysical concept

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_05]: What is the force?

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_05]: The force is what connects in Binds Universe

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_05]: That's all you need to know

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why it's so funny

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_04]: That when someone is like

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And that means you can do this

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Fans are like

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_04]: No, the force

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_04]: This is the force

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Not this is the force

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You have to go to school before you do anything

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_04]: In the force

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're normal about it

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Always

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Always normal

[01:15:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Hodgman, do you feel comfortable sharing

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_07]: The anecdote you've told me in the past

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_07]: About Peter Berg?

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Well that's book two of the

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Dune Chronicles of John Hodgman

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Here we go

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Director Peter Berg

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_07]: I think we can start interweaving

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_07]: These narrative threads between the dossier

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And the books of Hodgman

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_05]: So after I've seen

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_05]: After I watched the dune in 1984

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Time marches on

[01:15:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Fast forward chapter house dune style

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_05]: 3000 years or whatever

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Did you turn into a worm?

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I read the book

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I saw Hodgman and his wife fall deeply in love

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_07]: His children grow

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_07]: And another thing

[01:15:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I did not become a half human

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Half sand worm hybrid

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Spoiler

[01:15:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I watched the sci-fi miniseries

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Which came out in 2000

[01:15:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Which I love

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is fine

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But that right

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_04]: That thing is basically just

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Someone being like

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_04]: What if I just wrote down dune as a screenplay

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Like most faithful adaptation possible

[01:15:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Whatever sci-fi can afford

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_04]: It has like

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And we'll film it in this high school auditorium

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Right

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_04]: It has like pretty good production value

[01:16:04] [SPEAKER_04]: For a sci-fi miniseries of the time

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Wildly expensive at the time

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_04]: At a scale but now is microscopic

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_04]: But it really is

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And they do children of dune as well

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_04]: With it just like

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's just fucking write it down man

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And I just

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I watched a little bit of it again

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I just wanted to see some scenes

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Who's that guy playing

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Fade Routha

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_05]: He's

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Matt Kieslar

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: The great Matt Kieslar

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_05]: The last days of disco

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_05]: The middle man

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And also he was

[01:16:27] [SPEAKER_05]: He was Johnny and waiting for Guffman

[01:16:29] [SPEAKER_05]: That's another one

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Handsome

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Handsome

[01:16:32] [SPEAKER_07]: What was the thing I saw him in recently

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_07]: You realized like

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_07]: He like quit acting

[01:16:36] [SPEAKER_07]: He's become

[01:16:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Became like a professor or something

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Let me get this right

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to say

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I love Matt Kieslar

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm not even sure if I'm saying his name right

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm pretty sure it's Kieslar

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure he's happy no matter how he says it

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_04]: He became a physician's assistant

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_04]: He's an instructor of urology

[01:16:48] [SPEAKER_04]: At the Oregon School of Medicine

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_07]: You can read a paper he wrote

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_07]: At Portland Community College

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Or I'm sorry

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_07]: From Reed explaining his shift

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_07]: When his career had slowed down

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I think he's really great in Scream 3

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_04]: What was that

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I saw him in something fucking

[01:17:04] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean he wasn't in anything recently

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_07]: So you must have seen an older thing

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh you know what it is

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_07]: What

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_07]: I for the first time ever

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Watch Larry David Sourgrape

[01:17:12] [SPEAKER_07]: You sure did

[01:17:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I saw that you watched Clear History as well

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_07]: You're really a

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_07]: I had a very bad case of bronchitis

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And in my madness

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I was like

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Let me watch both Larry David movies

[01:17:22] [SPEAKER_07]: That I don't know what ever talks about

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Neither one is good

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Matt Kieslar plays Matt Leblanc

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_07]: In Sour Grape

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_07]: There's this whole running thread

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_07]: In Sour Grape of how much Larry David

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Clearly hates friends

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:17:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Because it was made right after he left

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Sign Phone

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Got it

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And Kieslar's clearly playing Leblanc

[01:17:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[01:17:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And to spoil Sour Grape

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a movie that no one likes

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_07]: That's almost impossible to watch now

[01:17:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I promise you I will never see it

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Steven Weber's character

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Is encouraged to perform surgery on him

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Even though it's not his specialty

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_07]: He has testicular cancer

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think Steven Weber's usually a heart guy

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's going through all the stress

[01:18:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Of the Larry David style hijinks

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_07]: And in his stress and distraction

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_07]: He puts the transparency backwards

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_07]: He removes the wrong ball

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_07]: And then has to remove the second ball

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Funny

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And then you see him waking up

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And Steven Weber telling him the news

[01:18:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And then the next time you see the character

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_07]: It's through characters watching

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_07]: This friend's parody

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's called Pals or something

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_07]: On TV

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_07]: And Matt Kieslar now sounds like Mickey Mouse

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And he does the whole second half of the movie

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Doing an incredible Mickey Mouse voice

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, Kieslar did a great job

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_07]: He played Finn for Alpha

[01:18:39] [SPEAKER_05]: By that time I've seen the miniseries

[01:18:41] [SPEAKER_07]: What a tangent

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Incredible tangent

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_05]: It was really worthwhile

[01:18:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And I just wanted to respect that actor

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I liked him as Faye Routhin and that thing

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I liked the man as Johnny and Guffman

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't see whatever movie you were talking about

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_05]: The wrong ball or whatever it was called

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_05]: It gets to the wrong ball

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_05]: And then, you know

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I go through my own life journey

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Where I accidentally get kidnapped by television

[01:19:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I go on The Daily Show

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_05]: By accident promoting a book

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_05]: The areas of my expertise available

[01:19:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Probably somewhere

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I get hired

[01:19:12] [SPEAKER_05]: To do these ads for Apple Computer

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And I get flown a couple of times

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_05]: To the coast in first class

[01:19:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And on maybe my second or third trip

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Had to have actually been by 2007

[01:19:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I had moved to Brooklyn

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I second or third trip

[01:19:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I find myself in first class

[01:19:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Sitting next to Peter Berg

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Now Peter Berg at this time

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I know as an actor

[01:19:33] [SPEAKER_05]: More than as a director

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Even though he directed

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Friday Night Lights at that point

[01:19:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, had only done very bad things

[01:19:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Friday Night Lights

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And the rundown possibly

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And he was obviously an actor

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_04]: He was the guy from Chicago

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm saying as a director

[01:19:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Those with the movie

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I knew him from a Chicago Hope's Billy Cronk

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And I knew him from a weird indie movie

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Called While You Were Sleeping

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Where he's a World War II guy

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Gets frozen, woken up in 1990

[01:19:57] [SPEAKER_05]: It's probably not called that

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Because that's a famous romantic comedy

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, so anyway

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_05]: It was called something else

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Not while you were sleeping

[01:20:03] [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_07]: But I feel like particularly after

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Friday Night Lights

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_07]: He was positioned as like

[01:20:07] [SPEAKER_07]: This guy might be a serious director

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_07]: In the making

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And I believe in the context

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Of our conversation

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_05]: He was probably working on Hancock

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_05]: At that time

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Makes sense

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Which was obviously a huge step up

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_07]: In budget and working with

[01:20:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Hotest Talent in Hollywood

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Would have you

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, so you know

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm still confused as to why

[01:20:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I am sitting in first class

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_05]: In anything

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I can explain to you

[01:20:27] [SPEAKER_05]: You were a PC

[01:20:28] [SPEAKER_05]: That's true

[01:20:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_05]: It's called Late for Dinner

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Late for Dinner

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you very much

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_05]: That is a wild thing for that movie

[01:20:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Pretty good title

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Peter Berg

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So I already know this guy

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I used to work in a movie

[01:20:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Store and I

[01:20:41] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I saw

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, okay

[01:20:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I know he is

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Moving along, dude

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I can't believe that he's here

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Let him

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_05]: We get stuck on the

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll try to keep it

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll thank you

[01:20:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I stretch it out

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_05]: We got stuck

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay

[01:20:52] [SPEAKER_05]: So let me see if I can remember

[01:20:54] [SPEAKER_05]: The type of aircraft

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_05]: If you don't hurry this up

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to cut it off

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I will use the voice

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, okay

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_05]: So

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_05]: So I said Peter Berg

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, wow, Peter Berg is here

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And already my life is pretty surreal

[01:21:05] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a delay

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And we're stuck on the tarmac

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_05]: For a long time

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's really, really annoying

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Like we're there for an hour

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And everyone's kind of

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Huffing and puffing

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And then Peter Berg reaches into

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_05]: His leather suitcase

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Or a satchel

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_05]: That he's got at his feet

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And he pulls out a copy of Dune

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And I can't help myself at this point

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I was like, wow

[01:21:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And I say this out loud

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I wish I had a copy of Dune to read

[01:21:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And he goes

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you want one?

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I've got two copies

[01:21:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Why do you have two copies?

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Why do you have two copies

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Of Dune

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And his answer

[01:21:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Which does not answer the question

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Ever

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_05]: The question is never answered

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_05]: He says

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I'm thinking about turning it into a movie

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Gotta have two

[01:21:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Gotta have two copies, I guess

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Gotta have two

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Just do it like this

[01:21:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And he starts talking about this

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_05]: The couple of hands to work

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:21:47] [SPEAKER_05]: He starts talking about

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_05]: The movie Dune

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_05]: That he's gonna make

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_05]: This is a very famous science fiction novel

[01:21:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, Peter Berg, it's me

[01:21:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I know, I'm a piece

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I got it

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_05]: You know

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_05]: No one's ever really been able

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_05]: To crack it

[01:21:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm thinking to myself

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_05]: At this point

[01:22:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Am I gonna be the one

[01:22:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Who has to break it to Peter Berg?

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Does he not know

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_05]: That this is impossible?

[01:22:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, not only this is impossible

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a Dune movie

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_05]: But there was one movie

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, sure, sure

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Not only one, but two at this point

[01:22:11] [SPEAKER_05]: There was Dune

[01:22:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And then the Frank Herbert's Dune on sci-fi

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Like does he not know this?

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Do I have to tell Peter Berg?

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Is this my job?

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And as David was saying

[01:22:20] [SPEAKER_07]: The sci-fi mini series received well

[01:22:22] [SPEAKER_07]: But kind of interpreted as

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's the only way you could do it

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is just literally spell it out

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And even then

[01:22:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure anyone

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, David, you liked it

[01:22:31] [SPEAKER_05]: But I don't think anyone who

[01:22:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Loved Dune or Frank-

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_05]: David Lynch's Dune

[01:22:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Or anyone thought that they

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Had cracked the code

[01:22:39] [SPEAKER_05]: No, not making something worthy of

[01:22:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And Peter Berg felt that he was

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_05]: He was gonna crack the code

[01:22:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Because he showed me some spreadsheets

[01:22:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Of the most popular movies of all time

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_05]: He had come up with the algorithm

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And he was like, you know

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Star Wars

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Harry Potter

[01:22:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Such and such

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_05]: What do these all have in common?

[01:22:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Young men coming of age stories

[01:22:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[01:22:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, it's pretty universal

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely as part of the Dune DNA

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Is the boys adventure element

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like, I'm

[01:23:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he revealed that he did know

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_05]: That David Lynch had made a version of Dune

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like, I want to make Dune

[01:23:13] [SPEAKER_05]: But I want to

[01:23:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I know that David Lynch had his own take on it

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_05]: But I want to really emphasize

[01:23:17] [SPEAKER_05]: The less weird stuff

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, yeah

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to be boys adventure

[01:23:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Military science fiction

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's gonna make all the money in the world

[01:23:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And basically he was gonna

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Like make Dune for normies

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Was his idea

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he was on that for a couple years

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And then dropped out saying it wasn't the right thing

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_04]: For him and the script was taken to Pierre Morel

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Who is the guy who may have taken

[01:23:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Geez

[01:23:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And was in his hands for a minute

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Before Paramount dropped the rights

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_04]: This was Paramount

[01:23:52] [SPEAKER_05]: At one point

[01:23:53] [SPEAKER_05]: After I talked to Peter Berg

[01:23:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And I do not know how this happened

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Peter Berg and I had a long ranging conversation

[01:23:59] [SPEAKER_05]: About Dune, life and everything

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_05]: That's great

[01:24:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, at one point he asked me

[01:24:05] [SPEAKER_05]: What it was like to live in Brooklyn

[01:24:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I said it's great

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_05]: He's like, well, I have kids

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm divorced and I want to have a place

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_05]: That's good for kids

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like, well, Park Slope is terrific

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, get yourself a brownstone, Peter

[01:24:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And then Peter Berg and listen, Peter Berg

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_05]: If you're listening to this

[01:24:20] [SPEAKER_05]: This is what I remember

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Peter Berg goes right

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_05]: But if you want to fuck a woman at 2 a.m.

[01:24:25] [SPEAKER_05]: What do you do?

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like, okay

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Now you're talking to the wrong person

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_05]: For the Dune conversation

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Park Slope, we're not great for that

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_05]: You can't just hit the bars in Park Slope

[01:24:37] [SPEAKER_05]: At 2 a.m.

[01:24:38] [SPEAKER_05]: There may be an answer

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_05]: But John Hodgman is not going to

[01:24:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a piece of it

[01:24:41] [SPEAKER_05]: There's one Irish bar where cops will yell at me

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if any ladies are going to want to fuck this

[01:24:47] [SPEAKER_07]: The Mac would maybe no

[01:24:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Not to stereotype

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_07]: But the Mac would maybe

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Justin might know

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Justin might know

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not going to say anything about Justin Lump

[01:24:54] [SPEAKER_07]: But the Mac

[01:24:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, the Mac

[01:24:55] [SPEAKER_05]: That's an idea

[01:24:56] [SPEAKER_05]: That character

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a traumatic construct

[01:24:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And some time after that

[01:25:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I got a call saying

[01:25:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Peter Berg is working on Dune

[01:25:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Would you want to take a swing at the script?

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_05]: This is not ever going to work

[01:25:07] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not going to happen

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_05]: So I have to pass it up

[01:25:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is a mistake

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I felt like

[01:25:12] [SPEAKER_05]: You could have

[01:25:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I could have made a little cheap money on a movie

[01:25:15] [SPEAKER_04]: That was indeed probably

[01:25:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I would have gotten to hang out with my best friend

[01:25:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Peter Berg some more

[01:25:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Just don't be around at 2 a.m.

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Peter

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, Griffin

[01:25:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Let me talk

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I think I know

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[01:27:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Now I love Kamala Glocklin

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_07]: This movie gives David Lynch the gift

[01:28:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Of Kamala Glocklin meeting this guy

[01:28:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Who's going to be such an incredible figure

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_07]: In his language as a filmmaker

[01:28:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Being able to use this guy is sort of an

[01:28:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Analog for himself

[01:28:09] [SPEAKER_07]: It is so bizarre to me

[01:28:11] [SPEAKER_07]: That he got this part

[01:28:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Without having a pre-existing relationship

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_07]: With a guy who's a big fan

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_07]: With Lynch and that he is kind of a weird fit for it

[01:28:20] [SPEAKER_07]: In that for how young he actually was

[01:28:22] [SPEAKER_07]: When he made this movie, no one has ever

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Perpetually looked like a grown ass man

[01:28:26] [SPEAKER_07]: More than Kamala Glocklin

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: He just has a grown up fit

[01:28:29] [SPEAKER_07]: He just has such an adult jaw

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I think he's good at this

[01:28:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think he's bad in it

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_07]: But I also think you don't watch this and go

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh my god the shit Lynch is going to do with him

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_07]: This is his guy

[01:28:41] [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't feel like this amazing

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Discovery partnership has been

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Formed

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Well I mean the thing is and I realized this

[01:28:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was reading this when I was 13 years old

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_05]: When I was trying to read it

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_05]: The thing that I could connect with was Paul's 15

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going back to the dossier

[01:28:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You guys we've jumped all over

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I just want to say one quick thing

[01:29:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is late for dinner the film you referenced

[01:29:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Was in fact directed by W.D. Richter

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_07]: The only other film directed by the man who did Buck Rubon

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Buck Rubon

[01:29:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I watched it

[01:29:15] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll talk about that later

[01:29:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Mark and PJ comes at one point

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Wanted David Lean to make Dune

[01:29:19] [SPEAKER_04]: That makes sense

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_04]: David Lean said

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_04]: No

[01:29:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if he actually said no but he passed

[01:29:28] [SPEAKER_04]: At one point

[01:29:29] [SPEAKER_04]: They tried to get

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Well they tried to get the script a little wet

[01:29:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And the Dalton Trumbo was brought in

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_04]: To type this one up

[01:29:38] [SPEAKER_04]: In his bathtub

[01:29:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_04]: There was a writer strike

[01:29:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I think Haskell Wexler was on some kind of

[01:29:43] [SPEAKER_04]: They would have had to put him into a dirt bath

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Or a sand bath

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_04]: That's not the wrong mood

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, Arthur Jacobs dies a heart attack

[01:29:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Trying to write to the sand pit

[01:29:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_04]: The sleeper must awaken

[01:29:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And then of course in the 70s

[01:29:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Alejandro Gagrowski

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_04]: You can watch the documentary about it

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Certainly commissioned

[01:30:05] [SPEAKER_04]: A gigantic book of concept art

[01:30:07] [SPEAKER_04]: He brought in lots of

[01:30:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting people

[01:30:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Spent a lot of money

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_04]: He spent a lot of French money

[01:30:14] [SPEAKER_03]: All over town

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Getting people involved

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_04]: In his notion of a Dune movie

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Which if you want, you know

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_04]: The concept art that was produced for it is really lovely

[01:30:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And cool to look at I would say

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_07]: People he gathered together went on to

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Deeply influential work

[01:30:30] [SPEAKER_04]: He had HR Gieger

[01:30:32] [SPEAKER_04]: The cartoonist Mobius

[01:30:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And Dan O'Bannon together

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Like before Alien

[01:30:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Before anything else

[01:30:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That's sort of his biggest claim to fame

[01:30:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously he makes this giant book

[01:30:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Sent into studios and studios are like

[01:30:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you crazy?

[01:30:47] [SPEAKER_03]: We would never give you money for this

[01:30:49] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'll take this and this

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_05]: They used it as a menu

[01:30:54] [SPEAKER_05]: For science fiction film development

[01:30:56] [SPEAKER_05]: For a generation

[01:30:56] [SPEAKER_05]: But you just watched that documentary for the first time

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Like a year ago

[01:31:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:31:02] [SPEAKER_07]: People talk about it as like

[01:31:04] [SPEAKER_07]: This tragedy about the greatest

[01:31:06] [SPEAKER_07]: The narrative crux of the movie

[01:31:09] [SPEAKER_07]: This is always what I found frustrating about

[01:31:11] [SPEAKER_07]: That movie

[01:31:11] [SPEAKER_07]: It's been so much time talking up the pitch

[01:31:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're like what happened

[01:31:15] [SPEAKER_07]: He pitched it and everyone said no

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_07]: There was no ransacking

[01:31:20] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not like a near miss

[01:31:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone just like, well no

[01:31:23] [SPEAKER_07]: You want to give you money for this

[01:31:25] [SPEAKER_04]: It's an entertaining movie because

[01:31:27] [SPEAKER_04]: He is an incredibly entertaining

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Person when he's talking

[01:31:30] [SPEAKER_05]: My favorite part of Hodorowski's Dune

[01:31:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Was when he was complaining

[01:31:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Like the problem was I could never make my movie

[01:31:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Because all people ever cared about

[01:31:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Was money and he doesn't say money

[01:31:41] [SPEAKER_05]: He reaches in his pocket and he pulls out

[01:31:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Somebody who goes this awful stuff

[01:31:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And I notice he's like you're holding about a thousand dollars

[01:31:48] [SPEAKER_05]: He's just walking around with that

[01:31:49] [SPEAKER_04]: This is flush

[01:31:50] [SPEAKER_05]: You really don't care about this money

[01:31:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Because you got a lot of it

[01:31:54] [SPEAKER_04]: You're trying to get laid in Park's little

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_04]: The thing about Hodorowski also is

[01:31:59] [SPEAKER_04]: You watch it and you're like, okay

[01:32:00] [SPEAKER_04]: So how old is he? 65? And it turns out he's like

[01:32:02] [SPEAKER_04]: 88

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_04]: He's so young and hot

[01:32:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Whatever, he's still going I think

[01:32:08] [SPEAKER_07]: But you imagine that he maybe

[01:32:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Would have in his mind

[01:32:13] [SPEAKER_07]: People had just given him money

[01:32:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And fucked off

[01:32:16] [SPEAKER_07]: That he would have gone like

[01:32:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm just gonna make this about mood

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not gonna worry about every character

[01:32:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Explaining every bit of lingo

[01:32:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Famously he was gonna have Salvador Dali

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Play the emperor

[01:32:27] [SPEAKER_04]: At like 10% of the budget going straight to him

[01:32:30] [SPEAKER_04]: He did something like I will pay you

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't remember what it is

[01:32:33] [SPEAKER_04]: With like a hundred grand an hour

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And that'll quote unquote make you

[01:32:37] [SPEAKER_04]: The highest paid actor in film history

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That no one's ever gotten paid that as an hourly rate

[01:32:42] [SPEAKER_04]: But we'll shoot you out in like three hours

[01:32:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that was sort of their plan

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Right?

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Mick Jagger was gonna be

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Fade Ralph

[01:32:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Keith Carradine I think was gonna be

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Or David Carradine maybe was gonna be

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Leto and of course his own son

[01:32:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Brontis was going to be

[01:32:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Paul and he had Brontis do like

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Two years of kung fu for a movie that

[01:33:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Never even passed the stage

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Also a great sci-fi named Brontis

[01:33:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Brontis Yohtarowski? Stop me if I'm just

[01:33:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Late to this

[01:33:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And everyone's been saying

[01:33:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I've heard good things about that film

[01:33:14] [SPEAKER_07]: From you

[01:33:17] [SPEAKER_07]: If this is a conclusion that other people have come to

[01:33:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Years before me

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm watching this and I'm like could any filmmaker

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Have pulled this off at this point in time

[01:33:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Realistically

[01:33:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Within the studio system

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Within like having the track record

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_07]: To have a little bit of reassurance

[01:33:35] [SPEAKER_07]: From the studio that they know how to handle this thing

[01:33:37] [SPEAKER_07]: There's the one guy

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm happy that he did what he did instead

[01:33:41] [SPEAKER_07]: But in retrospect there's the one obvious

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Answer who in 1984

[01:33:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Would have made sense to do

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_07]: George Miller

[01:33:50] [SPEAKER_04]: It's pretty early for him

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_04]: He had already done Road Warrior

[01:33:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but still pretty early

[01:33:56] [SPEAKER_07]: But if you're looking at someone's

[01:33:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Second film and saying

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Who could make their third film

[01:34:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe you take Miller over

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Road Warrior makes a lot more sense than Elephant

[01:34:05] [SPEAKER_05]: But Oftenman was like a best picture

[01:34:07] [SPEAKER_05]: No I know, at Massive

[01:34:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:34:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Road Warrior

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Overcult

[01:34:14] [SPEAKER_05]: One of the things

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Having just seen Furiosa

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Which I loved

[01:34:18] [SPEAKER_05]: An excellent film that all of us love for the record

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_07]: We hated it, listen to the app

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_07]: That's not what I read

[01:34:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to rewrite this

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean obviously

[01:34:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is true about Lucas too

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Which Lynch couldn't quite do

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is like you know where everyone is at every moment

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_05]: You know how things like

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch curated a beautiful

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Arresting sometimes terrifying

[01:34:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Space where these characters

[01:34:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Were in but you didn't know

[01:34:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Where they were or where they were going

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Or where the worms were or what was going on

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Couldn't move them through the space

[01:34:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Miller incredibly good at just giving you

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_07]: A sense of lore and history

[01:34:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And connections and how structures

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Work without needing to have it

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Actually explained

[01:35:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But when we

[01:35:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Talk about how Dune is unfilmable

[01:35:07] [SPEAKER_05]: As many people did

[01:35:08] [SPEAKER_05]: There are reasons for it right

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously it's very long

[01:35:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously it's pretty esoteric

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously it's multiple different novels

[01:35:15] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a boys adventure novel

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_05]: There is also an ecological parable

[01:35:19] [SPEAKER_05]: There's tons and tons of religious

[01:35:22] [SPEAKER_05]: None fear

[01:35:23] [SPEAKER_05]: There's tons and tons of just drug stuff

[01:35:26] [SPEAKER_05]: In it like it's exactly

[01:35:28] [SPEAKER_05]: What a novel can be

[01:35:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is discursive, tangential

[01:35:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's you know

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And on top of that though

[01:35:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I think the thing that really made it

[01:35:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Hard to do was that so much of the novel

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Is interior

[01:35:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And also these fucking worms

[01:35:43] [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I'm talking about?

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_05]: They're big

[01:35:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And what you know about them is they're weird

[01:35:50] [SPEAKER_05]: They're weird and big and they're phallic

[01:35:52] [SPEAKER_05]: When you are reading a book

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And you read about giant

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Sandworms

[01:35:57] [SPEAKER_05]: That eat sand and vomit

[01:35:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And poop drugs

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And you can ride around on them

[01:36:01] [SPEAKER_05]: You're like yeah I'm all over this

[01:36:04] [SPEAKER_05]: This is fantastic

[01:36:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Images baked into your brain that now the film has to live up to

[01:36:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Well and there are just some things

[01:36:11] [SPEAKER_05]: For the most part that when you

[01:36:12] [SPEAKER_05]: When you put them

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_05]: In front of you

[01:36:16] [SPEAKER_05]: They take it out of your mind's eye

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And put it onto a screen, it looks dumb

[01:36:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So like

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So much of the animus

[01:36:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Behind Superman the movie

[01:36:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And the Spider-Man TV show or whatever

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Is like what do these people look like in the real world

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_05]: It's really hard to make superheroes

[01:36:31] [SPEAKER_05]: In those costumes in the real world not look dumb

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Only Chris Turreeve could really do it

[01:36:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Decades of iteration

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's the one example that worked

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Until the ladies

[01:36:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And those worms

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Setting aside the

[01:36:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Technical issue of filming worms

[01:36:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So they look real

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And that they have to do a lot of shit

[01:36:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, they're a big part of the story

[01:36:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And when you take them out of your mind's eye

[01:36:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Even if you could make them look perfectly real

[01:36:58] [SPEAKER_05]: But you couldn't at the time

[01:37:00] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a real risk of them looking dumb

[01:37:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And I would say the other thing

[01:37:05] [SPEAKER_05]: What Villeneuve could do

[01:37:07] [SPEAKER_05]: With regard to the worms

[01:37:08] [SPEAKER_05]: First of all I think you're right David

[01:37:10] [SPEAKER_05]: That he took it out of the interior

[01:37:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Inner monologue

[01:37:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And actually dramatized what was happening

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_05]: In the story which helped

[01:37:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Building it around relationships

[01:37:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Figuring out the right way to structure acts

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Around interpersonal relationships

[01:37:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And he figured out a way to make those

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Worms look good, move good

[01:37:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously a lot more

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Technology allows him to do that

[01:37:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Obviously perfectly suited for a popcorn bucket

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Which the Lynch worms were not

[01:37:36] [SPEAKER_05]: But even so I would say

[01:37:38] [SPEAKER_05]: That it might not have come off

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Unless David Lynch's dune existed

[01:37:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Like the

[01:37:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Like the Ben Adjesserit Mishianaria Protectiva

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Someone had to do it incorrectly

[01:37:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Seeding myths throughout the galaxy

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_05]: To prepare the way for Paul to say

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_05]: That he's Maud d'ib when he meets the Fremen

[01:37:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like we've gotten this in our head

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Enough that when we see them

[01:37:57] [SPEAKER_05]: This time they don't look

[01:37:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Totally jarring and dumb and weird

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_07]: I would agree with that, I also think it is interesting

[01:38:03] [SPEAKER_07]: To me we were watching

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_07]: The special feature on the Arrow Blu-ray

[01:38:08] [SPEAKER_07]: That's like a 20 minute feature

[01:38:09] [SPEAKER_07]: At about the merchandising efforts of dune

[01:38:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. How hard they went on this movie

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_07]: In the wake of Star Wars

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_07]: And like blowing it out

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_07]: With bed sheets

[01:38:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And fucking activity books

[01:38:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And all sorts of toys

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And pencil cases for elementary school

[01:38:24] [SPEAKER_07]: David you had a very good slam

[01:38:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is they actually only should have made merch

[01:38:27] [SPEAKER_07]: For pointextors

[01:38:28] [SPEAKER_07]: It should have just been that shit

[01:38:30] [SPEAKER_07]: But they made every type of thing

[01:38:32] [SPEAKER_07]: And on the back of the packaging

[01:38:34] [SPEAKER_07]: For all the toys

[01:38:36] [SPEAKER_07]: They used to have what they called the cross cell

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Where you could see all the other products in the line

[01:38:40] [SPEAKER_07]: So you knew what you needed to collect

[01:38:42] [SPEAKER_07]: It said sandworm, deluxe sandworm

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Deluxe

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_07]: And then they put like a fucking bar over it

[01:38:48] [SPEAKER_07]: That said top secret

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_07]: They were in the lead up to this movie

[01:38:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Being like we can't even show you

[01:38:54] [SPEAKER_07]: A toy of the worm yet

[01:38:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Because this has to be saved for the fucking

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_05]: And also probably it would be illegal

[01:38:59] [SPEAKER_05]: To send this through the mail in certain states

[01:39:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Because this thing is so much of a penis

[01:39:04] [SPEAKER_07]: It is so sexual

[01:39:05] [SPEAKER_07]: The great failing of the toy

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Is that the mouth is very shallow

[01:39:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And you can't really get any practical use out of it

[01:39:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow

[01:39:12] [SPEAKER_07]: But otherwise it looks like it's just meant for them

[01:39:16] [SPEAKER_04]: David Lynch

[01:39:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Some other people are going to

[01:39:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Ridley Scott's the most obvious person

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Who flirted with making this movie

[01:39:22] [SPEAKER_04]: But decided to somewhere to stuff it down

[01:39:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to do it

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_04]: David Lynch though

[01:39:27] [SPEAKER_04]: He becomes a board

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Christopher DeVore and Eric Berggrin

[01:39:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Had worked with Lynch

[01:39:35] [SPEAKER_04]: On The Elephant Man already

[01:39:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And so they help him

[01:39:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Kind of

[01:39:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Draft this novel into

[01:39:43] [SPEAKER_04]: A gigantic screenplay

[01:39:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Lynch

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Does pitch should be due to

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Movies which I think is a classic

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Pitch and that gets

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Basically shot down

[01:39:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Even with Star Wars as a model

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone was terrified of the idea

[01:39:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Of leaving any story incomplete

[01:40:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Right

[01:40:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Eventually the other two guys leave

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Because they're sort of like

[01:40:07] [SPEAKER_04]: They sort of see trouble ahead basically

[01:40:09] [SPEAKER_04]: There's no way to make an entertaining

[01:40:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Movie that Danino de Laurentiis is going to like

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_04]: With a lot of action in it

[01:40:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And have David make a movie that David wants

[01:40:17] [SPEAKER_04]: To make

[01:40:17] [SPEAKER_04]: They get David Lynch and they're just kind of

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Like

[01:40:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Navigating being faithful to this

[01:40:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Novel, making a blockbuster

[01:40:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And making a David Lynch movie

[01:40:28] [SPEAKER_04]: We just don't really see how it's going to work

[01:40:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Too many masters to serve in opposite directions

[01:40:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Lynch eventually submits the

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Shooting script, it's about 135 pages long

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It also as Lynch says has to be a PG

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And so some of the

[01:40:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Quote-unquote stranger stuff has to get

[01:40:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Throwing out the window

[01:40:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Now Val Kilmer I believe

[01:40:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Was the first choice to play Paula Trady

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Makes a ton of sense

[01:40:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Because he has that

[01:40:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Kind of perfection to him

[01:40:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Right where you're like it's eerie

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And the sort of

[01:40:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Steadiness

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Right a little like you kind of hate him

[01:41:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Kind of root for him

[01:41:04] [SPEAKER_05]: But you know what I learned and this may or may not be true

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But I saw it online that also

[01:41:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Considered for the role

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Another Buckaroo Banzai

[01:41:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Peter Weller

[01:41:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting, perfect Tommy Lewis Smith

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Peter Weller would be too old

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Well that's why I was confused

[01:41:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And so is Lewis Smith and so is Val Kilmer

[01:41:23] [SPEAKER_05]: For that matter

[01:41:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Because this is post

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_04]: No it's right around

[01:41:28] [SPEAKER_04]: What's how can it be 86

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_04]: 86, yeah

[01:41:31] [SPEAKER_04]: He done top secret and real genius

[01:41:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Had he done like Willow yet

[01:41:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Or is it wait

[01:41:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's take a look

[01:41:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That no that's later

[01:41:41] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah who is he

[01:41:42] [SPEAKER_04]: He done top secret and real genius

[01:41:44] [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Top secret is this year

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Is this same year

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously Tom Cruise is also mentioned

[01:41:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Tom Cruise is just kind of like a hot new face

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_04]: At the time

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_04]: He probably would have fit

[01:41:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they had the fear that he's kind of too

[01:42:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Charismatic

[01:42:01] [SPEAKER_04]: He smiles and yeah well that's another thing

[01:42:05] [SPEAKER_04]: That I had to deal with

[01:42:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Paula Trady's had great

[01:42:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Colin McLaughlin had graduated from the University of Washington

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_04]: He'd never acted

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_04]: In a movie

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Lynch doesn't apparently do traditional editions

[01:42:16] [SPEAKER_04]: He kind of just meets

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_05]: What he does things his own way

[01:42:21] [SPEAKER_04]: McLaughlin said I had seen

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Eraserhead didn't really know what to make of it

[01:42:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I more liked movies like The Three Musketeers

[01:42:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I get it

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Swords

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_04]: They talk about growing up in the northwest

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_04]: They talk about red wine

[01:42:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And Lynch is like I like your vibe

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Read this script

[01:42:38] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll film some scenes

[01:42:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It is wild

[01:42:41] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a weird shit

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Like why didn't he go for Kilmer

[01:42:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Because Kilmer makes so much sense

[01:42:46] [SPEAKER_04]: So much sense

[01:42:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Kind of like a little bit of a known entity

[01:42:50] [SPEAKER_05]: The most commonly often

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_05]: You can understand why someone and look

[01:42:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I was trained to believe the author is dead

[01:42:55] [SPEAKER_05]: That authorial intention means nothing

[01:42:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Only the text remains but I will say

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_05]: You could appreciate a world in which David Lynch is like

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Well there's this movie star that they want me to make this thing with

[01:43:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Or this up and coming star

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_05]: That they want

[01:43:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Or this kid I found in college

[01:43:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I found the Pacific

[01:43:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it's a bit more of a blank slate

[01:43:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And Val Kilmer is notoriously difficult

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Well I don't know if it was notorious back then

[01:43:17] [SPEAKER_07]: But meeting with him you could imagine how he's like

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_07]: The other thing

[01:43:21] [SPEAKER_07]: This guy's got ideas of what this is going to do for his career

[01:43:24] [SPEAKER_07]: David Lynch was like why does this guy keep calling me his huckleberry

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Well he is your huckleberry

[01:43:29] [SPEAKER_04]: He is

[01:43:30] [SPEAKER_04]: The other thing I think that is

[01:43:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Comic-lockling is as close to David Lynch

[01:43:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Finds as an analog for himself

[01:43:37] [SPEAKER_04]: As a young man

[01:43:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously Blue Velvet and Twin Peaks

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_04]: That's him

[01:43:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Everything I'm reading about Twin Peaks

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I am now just deep in Twin Peaks guys

[01:43:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you guys know about this

[01:43:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm so deep

[01:43:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I've seen all of Twin Peaks before

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_04]: But now I'm just kind of soaking in it

[01:43:55] [SPEAKER_04]: In a new way

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And what I've learned is that

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Everything on Twin Peaks was

[01:44:01] [SPEAKER_04]: You know Mark Frost did lots of stuff obviously

[01:44:02] [SPEAKER_04]: But Lynch handled Dale Cooper

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And the words coming out of Dale Cooper's mouth

[01:44:06] [SPEAKER_04]: People were like that's how he talks

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_04]: That's just how Lynch behaves

[01:44:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe he just meets this guy and is like

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_04]: They're talking about the Pacific Northwest or whatever

[01:44:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And Lynch is like yeah

[01:44:15] [SPEAKER_04]: If I'm making a coming of age story

[01:44:17] [SPEAKER_07]: This is me when I was coming of age

[01:44:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Lynch's

[01:44:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Lito to

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Kyle's Paul

[01:44:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Orson Wells obviously is considered for the Baron

[01:44:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Apparently

[01:44:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Divine was considered

[01:44:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Had health issues

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Goes to Kenneth McMillan who I feel like

[01:44:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Is classic just like

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah you can need a British guy to kind of yell

[01:44:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And shit like he's good for that

[01:44:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And does rule in this

[01:44:43] [SPEAKER_07]: He's having so much fun

[01:44:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I like a completely

[01:44:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Unembarrassed performance like this

[01:44:49] [SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean? I love what Stelnskarsgard