Dunkirk with Bilge Ebiri

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check You can practically see it from here What? Podcast! Yeah, sure

[00:00:25] I don't know, right? Whatever. I don't know. This one doesn't dialogue It's a quarter-by-movie You should have just done a plane Just make a made-of-plane noise Then and I were talking about Podcast! How Nolan was just obviously when he's pitching the movies Just like Ahhhh Ahhhh no!

[00:00:44] I love the idea of Nolan coming in His crisp suit, right? Hair slicked back Just give me a moment to sit up here And took out his shoebox Placed all his miniature 10 airplanes on the floor That he had personally built in his garage

[00:00:59] Right, took a deep breath and went Ahhhh And Chris here is a check for $200 million 20 against 20%? Is that good? Here is a Blank Check with Griffin and David If only they had said that to him This is the name of our podcast

[00:01:22] It is called Blank Check with Griffin and David I'm Griffin I'm David, Sims We're the two friends as a hashtag It's a competitive advantage No other podcast has that going for it We do Here is another thing about us Kind of stores of context

[00:01:33] You're all over the place I'm trying to do sensory overload All of Dunkirk I'm trying to fucking blitz your brain This podcast about filmography Filmwriters who have a massive success Early on in their career They give a series of blank checks Sometimes those checks clear Sure

[00:01:53] Sometimes they're clear Sometimes they bounce baby Not this time Not this time This time it's clearing For sure And it's a real blank check of a movie It is in a weird way Even though it's a war movie Yeah The horriest of genres Yes

[00:02:08] This is the last film Hmm Hmm Sad emoji Until his next film But of this miniseries Yeah At that point it'll be a one off It'll be a throwback Thursday Exactly When we cover another Another Nolan Because we even talked about Christopher Nolan It's a miniseries called

[00:02:27] The Pod Nightcats Podkirk It's called Podkirk This is Podkirk We're talking about the movie Dunkirk Yeah Which came out What month and a half ago now Not even a month ago Yeah A little more than a month ago Six weeks ago came out Middle of July

[00:02:45] That sweet spot in July Yeah We're tipping into September right now And it's still going strong At the box office We had said in our inner-seller episode That Dunkirk wasn't coming in Or close to inner-seller's box office I think it's going to pass it

[00:02:58] In the next week or so Yeah, it's doing a great job It's doing a great job It's also been the worst month for movies After, I think, an okay summer This, like the last few weeks have been Excuse me, have you not seen Leap? I have not

[00:03:10] I have not seen Leap Birth of the dragon Is it Leap, Cole and birth of the dragon? Yep It's one movie It's a mashup Weinstein cannot afford to release Movies anymore So he's smuggling movies inside of other movies To Leap fever? Yes We are only days away today

[00:03:30] Two days away from the release of Tula Fever Have you seen Tula Fever, honored guest? I have not You want to introduce our guest? Sure He's my favorite critic to read about Hey Read about You don't like reading his work You like reading other people

[00:03:43] Read his writing about Christopher Nolan I wanted him on this podcast And I'm sorry we couldn't get you on inner-seller But scheduling was too crazy for inner-seller Just because I feel like You're the biggest inner-seller fan in the world If I'm a big inner-seller fan

[00:03:57] I'm a very big inner-seller fan I don't know if I'm the biggest If you could do an installment of Tars Talk We can put us that little time in this episode For some Tars Talk, our regular segment Oh yeah, we're just going to do that every week

[00:04:07] Now David Reese makes it clear He actually likes Case more than Tars On that episode That makes sense I mean David Reese is a real case A critic for the Village Voice Which still exists Still exists It's still here in online form only sadly But welcome

[00:04:26] Thank you so much for being here Fan of the podcast, huge fan of the podcast I'm pleased to report that I am actually An hour into this podcast already While you guys are at the beginning You are at a different temperaholly than us

[00:04:37] And Ben right now is a week ago He always is though That's not unusual Producer Ben The Ben Dooser The Poet Laureate The Haas Our finest film critic Dirt bike banny Soak and wet banny The fart master The meat lover The fart master The fart detective

[00:04:52] The fuck master He's not No Professor Crispy He is the peeper Yeah He's graduated to certain tells Over the course of different miniseries Such as Ahem Producer Ben Kanobe Kylo Ben Ben Sey Ben Night Shyamalan Say Ben Anything A-Le-Benz with the dollar sign War Haas Announcing it here

[00:05:13] Sure Perdueur Bain Perdueur Bain, that's what you settled on Perdueur Bain Not Ben Kirk Ben Kirk's good Not yet I mean look When he catches up with us He can reckon with it I visit the French town of Ben Kirk Get a croissant Yeah, Dunkirk Hi guys Hey

[00:05:30] Hey everybody So this This movie Nolan makes Interstellar Sure Interstellar does Well, but still We thought that was kind of A view to his disappointment I think just in the light Of how huge his He has a high bar Three previous movies have been Right And also how

[00:05:48] Previous sci-fi movies like that Had done Yes, right Right, he had Gravity the year Before when His best director Yeah Makes like Crazy amounts of money Hand over fist There was sort of this revival Of adult sci-fi That's still been going on It's weird Like every year now

[00:06:04] There's one high minded Adult sci-fi movie If you think of Arrival last year What's this year? I don't I guess this year Blade runners Like the closest equivalent Right Was, well yeah Was Arrival And The Martian the same year Or were they different years? No, they're different years

[00:06:20] Different years Right, The Martians 2015 Arrivals 2016 Right But there's like One kind of like real world Parts science Oh, Valyrian That's the one Life Hey, not a bad movie Yeah You haven't seen life I hate that director With a passion He's the safe house guy Safe house guy

[00:06:38] The safe house guy The child 44 guy I've not seen either of those movies Awful Yeah But life, you know The whole muscle Is he the snaba cash guy Or whatever that is He is the snaba cash guy Okay People love that snaba cash Right

[00:06:52] I have no idea what you guys Are talking about He did snaba cash easy money Yeah He did this movie called Snaba Cash parentheses Easy Money Love the title Which was Dutch Is he Dutch? No Daniel Espinoza Is his name, isn't he? He's Scandinavian Because that's where like

[00:07:07] Joel Kinnaman came from Oh, sure Well he's Swedish Overseas success And I think they made like Four of them And they were always saying They were gonna like adapt it With Shia Loebuff Snaba cash Snaba cash Or Zac Efron At some point

[00:07:20] I think Zac Efron was attached to it He gets floated For a lot of Scandinavian Remakes Let's snaba cash They were trying to make Snaba cash happen What is I guess there hasn't been A big sci-fi movie this year Yet I guess Blade Runner

[00:07:34] I guess that's the one But it's weird because it's a sequel But I think we're thinking more Like space movies, right? Right Because I feel like it's that run of like Which life was definitely trying To position itself as one of those Also passengers definitely thought

[00:07:47] They were gonna have that last year And then Arrival came in And had an interesting strategy Which was to be a good movie That was their strategy Was what if good No, but Arrival, Gravity Interstellar, The Martian I feel like there's one more

[00:08:00] I feel like every year between Like September and December There's been one kind of like This is a realistic look at space Yeah There's spinning There's a lot of spinning Space has got spinning now Space, now it's more spinning I'm not seeing anything I'm sorry

[00:08:20] We're lacking one this year Thor Ragnarok Yeah, that's hard sci-fi Hard like a Ragnarok Yeah But I think expectations are very high And it's sort of like You know, has grown since then It wasn't like a total flop But it was kind of like

[00:08:34] What does he do now? Sure What does he do now? Batman's done Not doing Batman Right And there were I feel like rumors for a while Circling things But he keeps a tight lid on it I guess so There's always this Howard Hughes

[00:08:48] He plays it close to the chest Right Very close to the chest Right Like what's he gonna make now For example That's the thing that happens After every Nolan movie Where I think to myself Well, what the hell does he do to kind of Yeah, impress people again

[00:09:04] Yeah, because you have a lot of big directors So they're like Well, I'm gonna go make a small movie now Sure And usually it's because they've done something Bloated and obscene and annoying Like, you know, Michael Bay or somebody Yes But with Nolan, you know You don't necessarily

[00:09:18] I mean, I would I'll watch whatever he does I watch a small movie But you don't necessarily hear him say I'm gonna make a small movie now No Right Well, he's very good about not Being an asshole about his brand I would say largely Agreed But I

[00:09:31] In terms of where thinking people would Care to hear that You know I mean, I care to hear it Yes He's in a very interesting position Because like As Alex Ross Perry very stutely said In our Insomnia episode He's one of like two or three living filmmakers

[00:09:43] Who can like call the shot And force the entire industry to change If he decides to do something Okay In terms of actual filmmaking process Release strategy, what have you You know And I think he like takes that responsibility Seriously So while like

[00:09:57] I would love to see him make a little movie Not because I don't like the big ones But because It would be interesting to see him go back and forth I think he's like I got this power I gotta do big things To try to like advance filmmaking

[00:10:08] Um So it kind of becomes this question Of like, I guess what genre is he gonna take on next Like he's weirdly in that sort of position Now where it's like Oh, a sci-fi movie He's talked about making a horror movie

[00:10:19] It's hard to imagine him making a horror movie Yeah Yeah I don't know Like he's like Producing something You know I mean he produced Man of Steel And Transcendence Right Last we forget Gone but never forgotten Maybe he'll make another singularity movie Yeah

[00:10:37] I'd love to see him use Because he's done that thing where he You know, a couple of years ago With the brothers Kway Yes Where he helped take their films around And did like a little documentary And actually did appearances with them And right around that same time

[00:10:50] He also released a blu-ray Of Zviaginsev's Elena Right Yeah He's been like paying for like Restorations and stuff Yeah Which is sort of the Scorsese Like Scorsese's like A film foundation Where you're like Trying to have some of that stuff And also I think

[00:11:07] Maybe a little bit like Coppola In the 70s Right There was that period I mean because there was that period Where Coppola was like Indestructible Right Until he was destroyed Like destroyed Utterly destroyed He did like the Napoleon tour And stuff And he helped He helped get

[00:11:22] Carousal films Yeah Right And Lucas did that too Lucas did it Tarantino did it Although it didn't really Always work for him But there was the In the 90s too Where Tarantino presents Shocking Express I think the problem was that Weinstein ultimately abused that

[00:11:37] I think he started like Turning Tarantino into a brand Are you saying You don't have Tula Fever? Someone asked us on Twitter If we were going to do A one-off Tula Fever And my response was How can you do a podcast On a movie that Doesn't exist

[00:11:49] Where you have You haven't seen it Were you invited to the Screening that they then Called me and said We're not going to have The screening The day of the screening And I was like Okay I think I was And they were like Instead we will

[00:12:02] Not be screening the movie Like it wasn't like We're rescheduling it To this day It was like So we're not going to Have this screening And instead there won't Be screenings of the film It's so weird I mean because The film has come out In other places

[00:12:15] And it's played And people have said Like it's bad And it's just like This misshapen Like it's just like a crappy movie No worse than the last movie They made I mean there must be some Weird contractual thing Or maybe I mean there's also Let's not forget Harvey

[00:12:28] Is known for being Vendictive with his film releases Sure Yeah but he also has This thing where like He had some upfront deal Let's get into Harvey thought He had some deal Or Christopher Nolan Yeah He hasn't been Talked about much He has this deal With Netflix

[00:12:44] Where they like Offer him a certain amount Of money upfront As a year And some of the movies He didn't want to release Started like Oh I'll put it in one theater So then I can put it on Netflix The next week And like get my money back

[00:12:55] We're doing that thing Where he like siphoned them Off to the lifetime channel Sure Which he's done with Like two or three of his Like long delayed movies He did that with Grace Amonico And he did it with Sweet Frances Right where like Suddenly it just quietly

[00:13:08] Airs on lifetime As a TV movie So the like The Tula Fever thing Is very bizarre Because it's like He's used other escape routes To not release a movie Right but this is Maybe he has some clause Where he has I don't know Yeah I mean that's

[00:13:22] That said He has made me want to See Tula Fever This is kind of amazing I've never wanted to see Tula Fever until now And now they're advertising It as the sexiest thriller Of the year Yeah the movie That Harvey Weinstein Doesn't want you to see

[00:13:34] That should be the tagline Did you read about I think someone tweeted That there was like A SAG screening Or like a DGA screening Where literally people Were in line And they came out And were like Actually never mind And someone put out A paper sign

[00:13:49] Written in ballpoint pen That says Sorry Screening canceled We are showing Annabelle Which I think You should see the sign Because it's so Like plain And just sort of Like there's no malice to it It's a sweet little sign That someone drew For the WGA crowd

[00:14:07] But I just love that Like you're like Man I can't believe They called me And canceled the screening Two hours before it started It was like six hours Okay and those people were like Man I can't believe they wrote a sign And told us the screening

[00:14:18] Was canceled 30 minutes After the screening Was supposed to start They should have just played Annabelle and been People were like That was Annabelle They're like No that was Tulip fever You didn't catch the fever Yeah that was Tulip fever Anyway see you later Please leave Alright Dunkirk

[00:14:32] So this is one of those movies Like Inception That he has had boiling For like his whole career Like he came out for the idea He was like on the beaches And he was like In the 90's with his wife And it was like

[00:14:43] A Dunkirk movie should be Should be done But I don't have the money Or the skill yet Or whatever And he just sort of Had it in his pocket Right But they feel like He always has them in his pocket They play this movie

[00:14:55] Very close to the chest Dammit He doesn't talk about it much There's very little Kind of information circulating Around The couple big actors Who were like Casting in smaller Supporting parts But then it was like Oh yeah He was mostly using unknown Harry Styles isn't it

[00:15:13] All I knew was that Harry Styles I didn't know like Rylan's or Branow or anything Until I saw the trailer Like I knew very little I just knew he was making a Dunkirk movie I never try Because he hides it all the way

[00:15:25] And he never really tried to Sort of dig in But everyone kind of assumes Like okay Chris Reynolds Is doing a war movie He's gonna go fucking huge He's gonna make this big Big, bombastic Like is it gonna be two parts? Like what kind of epic

[00:15:38] Is he gonna build? And then he releases this weird 90 minute Like kind of like experimental Exercise It's 105 minutes I remember when the news Broke that it was 105 minutes Everybody was like What the fuck His shortest movie ever If you exclude the following Right Should be excluded

[00:15:58] Which he made for a few bucks less Which was an SNE mutual I think That was part of his Fatty R Buckle deal Uh But yeah, I do remember We say it on this podcast I think you're like Did you hear how short Dunkirk is?

[00:16:14] Yeah, and it's nuts After interstellar which is His longest movie and is long Right I love it but it's Almost three hours long It's long And when the early Like word comes out People are like It's like It's very short You don't really have Like character arcs

[00:16:30] There's like very little dialogue Like it's like It's an experimental Experiential movie Cause I saw the Lincoln Square press Screening I assume you did as well But I had had Like some of my friends had Seen it already and told Like I just remember Erlich saying

[00:16:45] I think Captain Phillips Not saving Pravell Ryan Like that was all he sort of said to me And I don't know Yeah, like what did you Expect going in? I didn't know much going in One friend who had seen it Earlier said It's insane

[00:16:59] And that was kind of All he said Sure, it is insane I think it's apt That's good I think that's good And so I was So I was prepared for it to be Insane whatever that meant In the context of a Christopher Nolan movie

[00:17:14] I was prepared for some sort of A sensory experience Yeah But that's about it I don't know I was a little frightened And it is a different Well it's also that That very first shot That very first shot Of the soldiers Walking through that town With the papers

[00:17:31] The Lee Foots flying And also it's weird And I saw it again I caught this Although you know It's like It's hard to catch this But They've just like stood up Or something Like it's just like a split second Of them cowering And then they kind of

[00:17:50] Stand up and sort of Start walking more casually And it's such a weird way To begin But immediately pulls you in I agree And then He literally sums everything up With just like a one or other leaflet You know We surround you The like propaganda You, us

[00:18:10] And then there's just that like Loud, clangy Like you saw it in Lincoln Square too The big IMAX In New York City And The gunfire Where you're just like Ugh And then that's the whole movie Right Is you going Oh god

[00:18:27] But also like the thing that strikes me In that opening scene is he like Kind of throws down his gauntlet Which is like This is not a movie about the anime Right This is not a movie about the fight This is a movie about survival Because it's just

[00:18:40] You're just hearing them Yeah You're exclusively hearing them Which immediately is like Very unusual It adds a really strange energy From that opening scene Where it's like We're just watching The back of this kid's head The own white head Right

[00:19:00] It feels like he's being shot at by ghosts Sure Because he's framing it so particularly around this Dude Who is like You know Like such an ideal cinematic cipher Like Nolan found this kid Who like had done one short film before I believe

[00:19:17] One episode of a TV show I'd never been in a movie before He'd been in like some mini series Yeah And just like has one of those faces Where it's like Yup, that looks like a kid and more You know Yeah, no he doesn't

[00:19:28] And he has a certain like integrity to him But is asked mostly to just like Survive throughout this entire film But also this opening sequence There are like 8 or 10 boys who look like him I know watching it I was like Which one's like the lead guy

[00:19:46] And then very quickly Like through process of elimination You're like well I guess that's our hero Because everyone else is dead now The opening is actually I forgot of course it has that Does have that title Yeah The title card with the Yeah The enemy

[00:20:01] The enemy and praying for a miracle Whatever Right they're good people on both sides Uh On many sides Uh On many sides Many sides When did you Cause you were making the tech Yeah I saw it like I guess it was

[00:20:20] I saw it like maybe two weeks later Cause I was making the ticket and it came out when I was at Comic-Con And then I was back shooting this other movie So I saw it a little bit late But I saw it at IMAX Yeah Lincoln Square

[00:20:34] And by the point I had seen it It was like firmly in Like dad mode territory Right Like I had like missed the The Nolan bro window Of like the rabid Nolan stands And I saw it in a theater that was mostly like Fathers and grandparents

[00:20:50] With their like children being like No this is important Right sure sure You know I mean you texted me after you saw it And said I'm very curious to see what you think about this Right cause I thought of our Saving Perver Ion episode Don't like war movies

[00:21:04] Right you don't like war movies I have a hard time with them A war movie with everything Stripped out like that you might Cling to It's just a war movie Right Or yeah Sentimentality Right right and I like You know It has some sentimentality

[00:21:19] Like I was shell shocked when we did Our Saving Private Ryan episode Like I was like Donald Trump had like just been elected president I was fucked up by a lot of different things At that time But I just like that Watching that movie the night before

[00:21:31] Recording I was like Fucking losing it Like white knuckling at the entire time And I feel like my My opinion of that movie has grown Since we recorded the episode Cause I feel like I was very complimentary But I also was like

[00:21:42] No sure you were just not into it I can't fucking deal with this movie Yeah But when I like think about it more I don't know if I have the courage to watch it again But I think about it more I've seen it like so many times

[00:21:51] Right I'm like God that's what a great fucking movie But all the things I think about When I replay it in my mind Are like the dialogue scenes The character interactions Yeah Tom Hanks shit The Spielberg shit Right right And this movie is like

[00:22:03] What if it's just like The storming the beach of Normandy In one way or another Like the entire movie's operating At that level of intensity With very little else to grab onto So it's like It's a movie designed for me Not to like it Sure

[00:22:17] That hasn't been said I like it Sure Do you like it Bill? I love it Yeah it's great Like I feel like How many times have you seen it? Four Wow that's a lot of time I've only seen it twice I wanted to see

[00:22:29] I checked it out in 35mm A friend of mine was seeing it Yes I did too I have still not seen it In just regular 70mm And I would like to Oh no right no I saw it in Sorry I saw it in 70 Right which is

[00:22:40] Which was great I have not seen it in regular 35mm In 35 on a smaller screen Which is what I saw it at I guess the village east Sure And it feels like a different movie It really does Interesting More so than any of his others did

[00:22:56] Kind of in different formats I mean the 70 There was a lot of format excitement Around this movie certainly Yes I think even beyond like Film Twitter or Nolan Bros. or whatever Like I had like a lot of people In my life just asking me

[00:23:08] Like how should I see it Like I know that's important You know like what should I do But that's the point Is like he's able to make These things feel Sure Important Like people know that these Aren't arbitrary decisions And even just like They made those t-shirts

[00:23:20] That they were like handing out The midnight screenings That were like I saw a Dunkirk In 70mm Jesus Christ You know like it's like a vacation Like I just I find IMAX very Very overwhelming in general I found it very overwhelming For interstellar I found it very frightening

[00:23:35] For this I can't handle How big it is Especially when there's a lot Of negative space Which this movie Yeah Especially in the air scene Yeah So tremendous to me Yeah In IMAX And then I saw it in 70 And I had seen it already

[00:23:49] So obviously like a lot of the tension Is gone the second time anyway And I had a great time Like you know but I mean Was that just that I was seeing it I can't you know It's hard for me to It's weird without the IMAX

[00:24:02] It really does feel Like a different experience You know not less immersive Necessarily Sure But it does feel You know strangely A little more unified Okay I thought it wasn't as loud also It's just very very loud I like big loud movies I love IMAX

[00:24:18] I've been waiting for years For someone to use IMAX properly Yeah I think Nolan does it But you know when I saw interstellar The first time I saw interstellar I saw it in 35 Sure And I loved it And I think the second time

[00:24:32] I saw it I also saw it in 35 I finally you know Went and saw it in IMAX And I actually found it Kind of distracting in IMAX Because it cuts between It does cut It's so much Right Whereas this the cuts are much Rarer And briefer

[00:24:47] And it's like Percent 75% IMAX It seems like 70 I couldn't you know I'm not a mathematician It seems like 65% of the movie is IMAX But you really I mean I guess it mostly cuts to the black bars Where you're like You know on the boat With Ryland

[00:25:01] That's what I know It was mostly for dialogue Because it's a sound issue You know but there's not much dialogue in the way So the boat stuff mostly felt Like it was Like it was 35 And then a couple of the brand off scenes

[00:25:11] Where he talks for more than Ten consecutive sets Sure You know But other than that The like large majority of the movie Is in this crazy boxy Overwhelming Like that's the other thing Like you see IMAX movies Where people shoot like Oh we shot 20% on it Right

[00:25:27] And it's like mostly you're watching A letter boxed into it You're used to And then everyone's like Oh my god Tars is taking up The entire screen Tars Right No I mean I remember it with Catching fire The Hunger Games movie where

[00:25:38] IMAX until she gets into the arena And then it suddenly expands out And I remember being like Happy that they like Tried to take advantage of the format That way But rarely do you really like Right Well I loved it in Interstellar But it was my first time

[00:25:51] And I loved space just But I sit in the back Yeah I sit closer I'm a little dork Who wants to sit in the back seat Because I'm scared of the big picture Right And I was of course You know They call me Patricia Hayton

[00:26:04] Because you can see me in the middle So I was sitting in the You're looking for me That's where I'll be At my press screening I'm sitting in those back seats And this guy is sitting across from me Who's got like all these papers around him

[00:26:14] And he's like What are you doing back here You should sit over there And I was like Ah I like to see the whole screen Yeah I just want to sit And he was like I'm only sitting back here Because I have to do all this work

[00:26:23] For the studio Like I see was like Taking notes the whole movie And she was like But Mr. Nolan sits right there And he like pointed right in the middle Like he's like That's his seat And I was like Okay Yeah He's keeping it warm for you Yeah

[00:26:38] I guess so Yeah I mean I feel like There is an An innate glass ceiling to my enjoyment For this movie Just because of the kind of film it is But I definitely sat there And felt like Okay this is like Pretty exemplary filmmaking

[00:26:53] This is an insane achievement I like game recognized game You know Right One master of IMAX to another Griffey Nooms Tipping his hat to Nolan But it is It is a very bizarre movie In that it doesn't Offer you the traditional handles

[00:27:11] To sort of like hold on to And carry you through the story Other than the Rylance plot I would argue which unsurprisingly Was the thing that I was the most Keaton too A nice British man driving a little boat A nice man with nice clothes So the gimmick

[00:27:28] Of the movie If you can call You can call whatever you want But the you know The format of the movie Is these three timelines Right we are hashtag the two friends These are hashtag the three temporality And I remember reading that beforehand And thinking like

[00:27:42] That sounds like a Chris For Nolan thing right there But I liked that the movie is more Is very tries to be explicit about it Like the mole one week You know The sea one day The air one hour Right it lays out its cards Real upfront

[00:27:58] And I To me at least The second I saw how it was laid out It was like oh this completely makes sense This isn't like a gimmick for gimmick's sake Made sense to me I mean did you have any trouble I've seen some complaints about the timeline

[00:28:09] I've seen my share of complaints About the timeline I never really understood what the Because it's I guess it's hard to articulate Like finding a thing confusing But Yeah and I didn't find it confusing And there are moments where you're disoriented But I think in a pleasant way

[00:28:25] I mean I think Nolan likes to be A little ahead of the viewer At various points Sure yes And I think he likes to kind of Pull you in in that way I mean with a film like this I find it so engrossing And beautiful and just riveting

[00:28:42] That it makes me an attentive viewer Right and that's one of the things that Nolan does That I really appreciate is that He finds a way to make sure that You're paying attention Like it's like in the prestige Are you looking closely You're absolutely right Yeah he's right

[00:28:57] He's trying to make sure your mind doesn't Wander Yeah and I am by nature An inattentive viewer I mean a lot of films I review I struggle with it Yeah a lot of films I review I have to watch twice before I can

[00:29:10] Kind of figure out what the hell I even think about it And that's why With Nolan I'm never distracted You know I'm never kind of pulled out of it Almost never pulled out of one of his films I mean I'm always kind of locked in

[00:29:25] Even when I don't know entirely what's happening Yeah I'm totally with him Well there's this other element too Time is obviously this big over-arching thing In Nolan's whole filmography You know like there's the shift of I think his movies When we were starting The Mesaers

[00:29:43] I was pushing this confidence thing Of the hill really hard You know all that confidence There's a certain point it shifts into being about time More than anything like his fascination with time Which I think falls into this Bigger thing he's at which it's like

[00:29:59] I think to one degree or another Nolan's always making movies about movies But unlike some filmmakers who get like Tagged with that label and it's like Oh they're just referencing the movies they grew up loving I think Nolan movies are about the way That people process movies

[00:30:14] You know like I think they're movies about Watching and processing information And how information is told to us And all of that sort of stuff Like I mean Inception like it's Really what that movie is about The reason why everyone's so into like the metaphor

[00:30:28] About it tracking for filmmaking is because it's like You know he's like the BFG He's trying to like cook up some dreams for us You know he's trying to like make this artificial world That like we can buy into And then he casts the BFG

[00:30:42] Right in this movie Yes yes he does Which I thought there's a weird amount of farts Like On the moon stone The scene where they run out of like gas on the boat And Ryland just powers it through farts You're in A little

[00:30:56] You're in oil you're in oil And his good fuzz wimples get me to done Farts and it explodes and everybody burns and dies Yeah it just felt like that was a weird Meshing of tones because on one hand Something very tragic is going on

[00:31:09] And under the other hand the dogs are farting One also Tom Hardy really could have used it more You know like he's the one who's really got a fuel issue In this movie Right right he should have started farting in that tank When his propeller stops turning

[00:31:22] And then he has to fart again You just see him with the can of beans They're peeping you know Yes yes it is Yes you were correct it was very inappropriate Was the saving private Ryan podcast like this Yeah probably worse Probably worse

[00:31:37] We're reverent jokesters I would say Yes We're reverent jokesters But I think this like idea Of being so fast at how things play out in real time Like people trying to fight against time It's like this boiling point with this movie But the other thing you know

[00:31:54] That I think stops it from just being like a gimmick Or Nolan doing it for like the sake of Nolan Loving disjointed narratives and all of that Is that like if you were to try to construct This movie chronologically

[00:32:06] Tom Hardy would only be in the last like ten minutes Sure yeah You know And I think there's just like something Horrifying and very Suspenseful about the mole stuff for the first Half of the movie because you know Nothing's gonna go right Right

[00:32:25] Because you know they're not making it off the beach Right So all of their schemes such as they are Such as like let's try and get on the boat with this guy On the stretcher and like let's try and crawl onto you know

[00:32:34] Like you're just like oh god But that's the point is like if you were doing it in order Yeah Most of the movie would be these guys just not getting saved Sure Before these rescue missions to come after them started Very late within the narrative

[00:32:48] Or you just start on the last day but then there's nothing Right But he doesn't allow you to experience Just the desperation of these people just Waiting there Exactly and like I mean like Same Improver Ryan you know you heard at the time

[00:33:03] Veterans say like oh it really captured the experience Of getting off the boat and just walking into chaos And I read some interview with a veteran about this movie We said it better than any It got the idea of how

[00:33:15] Miserable and scary it was to have to be dive bombed Sure You know just hear that noise for like a while Have nothing you can do except just like lay on the ground Right And just hope you don't get blown up

[00:33:26] Yeah and it also captures that thing about those German bombers which was they could pretty much fly Vertically Right And that great shot which is Which justifies the IMAX on its own Agreed And the noise Yeah of that head in the foreground with that tiny, tiny plane

[00:33:45] In the distance which you can see it so clearly in IMAX Is just so well done And just so terrifying It's very frightening Especially the first time and it's He just makes it like inhumanly loud as it should be

[00:33:58] But that's a good point you make which is like We're watching this movie we know the different timelines going on So you're like well there's I mean They're not gonna get saved now Sure They're gonna have to live through this Cause the first thing they do I mean

[00:34:11] Well oh right we should mention Okay so like right we talked about the scene Where he's running to the mole He gets to the mole what does he try to do He pulls a real Griffin Newman Finds a, oh oh he tries to

[00:34:21] He tries to take a poop He tries to take a poop Which is something you don't see in war movies either too Which I will say you know what you're right This is a good way to get me locked in on a character Yeah

[00:34:30] Especially for a movie that isn't gonna do a lot of character building That's gonna ask you mostly just like accept this kind of like cipher character Yeah If I see someone taking a doose I immediately like I feel like I'm in the headspace

[00:34:40] And that's the other thing about this film In a way much more than his other films It's very intimate in that way That's very true he usually struggles with intimacy I would say Yeah and the fact that this movie is basically one Giant insane combat set piece

[00:34:56] In some way And yet it is in this movie that he achieves What is probably kind of his greatest moments of intimacy Is quite ironic I would say And also kind of his most probing specific kind of human tragedy

[00:35:10] Which is this guy has been holding in a shit for a week Cause he's there on the beach and he's trying He's trying He gets performance anxiety Well he sees a guy burying another soldier on the beach Just a little farther away Right And they join up

[00:35:26] Goes in when he helps Yeah They become buddies This is a A Nuran Barnard That's the actor who plays Gibson Who is a He's a Welsh actor I don't know what to tell you But that is kind of the quiet through line in this movie

[00:35:43] Like in the same way that Bridges Spies like as Tom Hanks going Like I just want to get home and get into bed I think fine whitehead is just like I just want to take a shit I've been holding in a shit for a week

[00:35:54] I've had the worst week of my life It's a bad week they have Yeah And I cannot find a toilet anywhere Well look it's like 24 Like he probably goes eventually I don't think so Jack Bauer goes to the bathroom And it's like there's someone

[00:36:08] We're cutting away he's managing it And another interesting thing about the whole taking a shit Please Narrative element is You know one of Christopher Nolan's favorite movies Is the thin red line You're a great movie In the thin red line The novel There is a great scene

[00:36:25] Where a character tries to take a shit Really And a Japanese soldier comes on him And he has to kill the Japanese soldier You know And it's actually the character played by Jared Lido Sure In the movie And I believe they actually shot it for the film

[00:36:41] But didn't use it Wow And it's actually I think is it Jared Lido? I think it's Jared Lido It might be one of the other But it's another It's another character who we see very briefly In the movie And I believe they had shot that scene Earlier

[00:36:54] Because it's like the first It's like the first person That any of them kills or something like that There's some You know There's some you know Very emotional element to that kill Happening in that scene So I'm sure that Nolan Being Nolan

[00:37:09] Being kind of an obsessive geek about this stuff Probably is Remember that scene Yeah I'm sure that that's I mean considering the things he includes in this movie Which is a bullet train of a movie Right Let me just say Quickly Interesting trade effect

[00:37:24] I don't know if you know this But to prepare for that role Jared Lido sent A box of shit to every one of his castmates And that's a big cast That's why Clooney was really mad about He sent him all poop It wasn't that he got cut out

[00:37:36] It was the box Yeah actually okay That was the only way he knew how to get in a character This is true by the way Apparently On the shooting of that film Woody Harrelson Whenever he was on set Was often like Right off camera Farting in people's faces

[00:37:51] Apparently it's a thing they He just likes to do that They were there for like a year They were there for like a year They were aware of it They shot like the Philippines Or some jungle territory Yeah and apparently You know Woody Harrelson was just

[00:38:04] You know just going around Shitting in the background Shitting in the background That's a great bit 10 background points Yeah and also I mean You know whatever works Like clearly The results they got out of everyone Maybe Woody and Harrelson needs to Fart on more sets

[00:38:20] They shot for 100 days in Australia 24 days in the Solomon Islands Sorry I just wanted to find out Where they shot the thin red line 124 days It's a long shoot Long shoot A lot of hearts So yeah so we've covered The whole movie at this point So temporarily one

[00:38:39] He's on the land He's on the mole The beach The mole is these beach heads I feel like some people also get confused by that Because they think there's Because there's sort of a A spy in the movie Not really though

[00:38:51] Right but I know people who did that But I know people who definitely thought that That's what that referred to Especially because it's the first title card So we haven't set up It's like oh land, sky, sea People think it's like

[00:39:02] Oh which one of these characters is going to end up Getting outstead by Anderson Cooper Yes exactly Great great pull Right thank you But yeah I mean I think what Quickly they find They find the Well they're walking around And they find the guy on the stretcher

[00:39:20] And they sort of run him up to the top This is our mule ticket Well what happens is I think they see Silently I think he sees the stretcher And then the dive bombing happens Right because he tries to get in one line

[00:39:32] And the guy's like this ain't your lawn mate You know like you know cause he's like The Grenadiers right Right and then the dive bombing happens Which is rough Yeah but I think he's seen the I think he's seen the He's seen the stretchers at that point

[00:39:47] The dive bombing happens And I think after the dive bombing He and the Frenchman like kind of exchange a glance And the next thing you know they've got a stretcher Cause they're like we gotta get the fuck out of this This is not Waiting in lines here

[00:40:00] Not gonna work See when you said pulls a griffon Newman I thought you were referring to that Cause that's totally what I would do in that situation I think a lot of us would do that Let me just find someone who's close to dying

[00:40:08] And be like hey buddy Oh my friend I would put myself on the stretcher So I would say Yeah yeah Someone did me That's what they should have done Cause of course then they're running And they run through all these lines

[00:40:22] And you see that they're stopping French people From getting on the boats You know like you sort of get these glimpses Of how this is all being organized They run over the little plank Which is I don't like that That always freaks me out in any movie

[00:40:35] I'm like oh no Cause it's like one board right It's literally like yeah And three guys Three guys Three weight but they do it Three men and a stretcher Three men and a stretcher And then they That's worth cheering for They get him on the boat

[00:40:49] And of course it's just like Alright get off Not for you right Like is that the entire They don't get back That's not the boat that they then sneak onto Is it or is it No no They're pulled off And I believe that that's the boat

[00:41:04] I'm not sure about this But I think that might actually be the boat that Harry Styles is on That sounds originally okay Cause I believe it gets bombed Yeah cause that boat almost immediately right Cause that was the problem they had

[00:41:16] They had to pull up to get them onto these one These moles that had these big boats But then the boats were such easy targets And that's why they stopped essentially Trying the destroyer's evacuation Which brings us to temporality Dose Sneak attack What if we have nice men

[00:41:34] Take their little fishing boats Good British folk Solid people Yes What is interesting though is right before they cut to The Marquerelle Stone Somebody yells Where the hell is the bloody air force And every time I see that movie Oh now they're gonna cut to the air force

[00:41:53] No wait they're cutting to the moose No no Christopher Nolan he's He has a plan And remember at first I was like Is he gonna rigidly stick to like We go mole Sea Air Mole sea air Mole sea air I'm not cutting between like

[00:42:06] I'm not doing like sea mole air Sea air mole But no he just He doesn't do that He doesn't every once He does whatever the fuck he wants He's a grown ass man So yeah So this is a nice man with a good sweater

[00:42:19] And he has a fishing boat A very nice looking pleasure boat And a very handsome little son Yeah who's his son Who's that kid Blondie McBritish Christopher Nolan Jr Tom Glenn Carney He feels like the kind of guy who You know could be playing Ron Weasley

[00:42:38] You know like if the timelines matched up whatever He's got nice red hair in real life Yes okay okay He's got nice blonde hair in this I was gonna say Learn hair colors But in real life he's got red hair That's a good dye job actually

[00:42:51] Yeah good job What else has he been? Cause he does look familiar Uh nothing like literally nothing He was in the British TV soap casualty Which is set in a hospital And he's done some theater But that's it That is all It's crazy Good actor He's good

[00:43:09] He's excellent Everyone's good Everyone's fantastic And you know when I did watch the film again It really struck me how good Killian Murphy is Which we'll get to But he is exceptional in this movie I agree I think he is the best performance in this film

[00:43:27] But he is not my favorite character in this movie Cause I think you can guess who my favorite character is Uh I don't know I'll give you a hint He's the guy who is Under qualified for the circumstances that he is in Sure Uh Barry

[00:43:42] Uh how do you say his name Keegan? I don't know It's spelled like Keokin Uh who's an Irish actor Who I just saw the killing of a sacred deer last night And now I hate him And I can't look at him Oh he's in that

[00:43:55] It really is amazing how different that character is from this one You will really gain even more appreciation for his work in Dunkirk After you see the fucking killing of a sacred deer I can't wait Uh I thought he was fucking great in this movie

[00:44:07] He's good in this He's got a great face He's got this like just sort of like How do you put like this sort of putty face Like he's sort of frozen in this sort of like As the British would say gormless expression

[00:44:19] Yeah and he's got sort of these beady eyes That are weirdly expressive still He looks like he could grow up to be either Christian Bale or Shane McGowan He's like caught in that moment when his fate is about to be decided by the gods

[00:44:35] And you don't know in which direction it's gonna go Apparently he was in the movie 71 which I saw Do you remember that movie? Oh right I did Uh I forgot about that That movie I saw it at like the New York Film Festival or something

[00:44:45] And it's sort of I really liked that film Mostly blacked out of my memory I mean I remember being That was another intense rattling military experience Yeah Did he play one of the young kids in that movie? He must have He must let me see if he's

[00:45:02] No there's no other But yeah I don't know He's Georgie boy He's George He does some work on the boats Yes At first I thought he was there the second son I thought he was related Thoughts of two and then very clearly not

[00:45:15] No he's more just like they're loading the boat up with lifeboats And then Mark Reilly I guess decides I'm just gonna take the boat Yeah he does because apparently that was a problem Right Where the Navy requisitioned certain boats Literally taking your boats

[00:45:30] Yeah they got rid of the pilots And very often the people that were driving these boats Did not know the waters And a number of boats I think I don't know if they sank But like a lot of them just did not get to Dunkirk

[00:45:42] Because they were being sailed by people who just did not know the boat Or did not know the waters Right But Rylan's is a pro He's a steady hand This guy knows from the ocean He does He knows the sea He's a mariner

[00:45:53] And he knows it's pronounced Dunkirk Not Dunkirk Dunkirk He's I mean look Rylan's It's funny because he's this incredibly versatile actor Yeah Who like especially like you know Plays like Jerusalem or whatever Like he can do anything And now he is getting pegged He's getting a certain peg

[00:46:10] Yeah Most definitely But he's great at I mean there's a reason to peg him there Yeah Yeah and it's something that no one else can do As well as he does Like even if he's capable of doing a thousand other things English Mr. Rogers So they're like

[00:46:24] I mean like what are you Yeah the gentlest Man in front Yeah They need to cast them as like a mission impossible villain Yes Like he'd be so good at that Yeah Because even if he played at folksy He could play it terrifyingly folksy You know

[00:46:39] Yeah I think you should play Clayface In the next Batman movie Nolan loves him Maybe Nolan will come back Do you think Here's a side question Do you think if Nolan came around To Warner Brothers and he said I don't like the DC Universe

[00:46:52] I don't like the Joker I don't like what you guys are doing I'll make you a Batman movie If you just wipe it all away They would be like Yes yes we will do it You mean just get rid of all the other movies They have to have

[00:47:02] Yeah we just ignore You can keep Wonder Woman I know that did well Like and that was good But like you get rid of everything else Oh I think I make you a movie I think they're waiting for somebody To come and do that Like just say

[00:47:13] Someone tell us what to do Yeah exactly I think they're in that mode Where you start like acting really shitty To the person you're dating In the hopes that they dump you Yeah You know No you're right I'm passive aggressive I don't want to end this

[00:47:26] So let me just be like kind of a brat So they get tired of me They go endlessly baffling Where they're like Ben Affleck you know Rumors Ben Affleck's gonna leave Ben Affleck's like I'm not leaving And they're like No he was never gonna leave

[00:47:35] Anyway the Batman movie Is not gonna be connected to the universe Everyone's like what And they're like Well it is but it won't And people are like Okay and they're like Anyway Joker movie Martin Scorsese's attached And people are like What And they're like

[00:47:49] Wait hold on but a different Joker movie From the directors of Crazy Stupid Love Or the writers are crazy No No the writers and directors The Ficar and Rekla They didn't write it Every single announcement From them now feels like A cry for help It really does

[00:48:02] It feels like they're just sort of Like lobbing And it's funny because They finally had the hit this year Yeah Like they finally figured out Like here's the kind of movie People are looking for Which is slightly broader And I don't even hate these movies

[00:48:15] Like I feel like I'm actually I mean I was the one guy Who gave Suicide Squad Like a mildly positive review You're crazy You're even crazier than Some of those people on the Suicide Squad You're fucking twisted man And I didn't While I can't really say

[00:48:33] I liked Batman V Superman I didn't hate it I'm sorry what's the full title That movie I don't recognize the movie You just referenced Batman BVS Don Justice You forgot the Justice Don In that movie Yeah and so it's I mean it is It's bizarre Yeah

[00:48:53] Well it's like You imagine like that's what The sort of like development meetings Within the studio are like Okay let's just throw some ideas Against the wall Yeah What are some things we could do Hypothetically what could we do Joker Harlan movie Different continuity Joker in Brooklyn

[00:49:10] Shazam fighting Black Adam No wait Black Adam is his own movie Yeah Shazam will come later Just take a picture of the white board That's our press release We're gonna do it in humans movie That's Marvel No no we're gonna do it It's fine

[00:49:23] But it's like everything in their like Coke fuel development meeting Is like getting issued a statement Via statement to deadline Like they're Publicly disclosing every one idea They have Cyborg though Yeah I mean what a great character I can't wait to see What cyborg

[00:49:41] What comes out of that other box Everyone's favorite superhero Now is he a He's a half man half robot Is that his deal Well that was historically the thing But then if you look at the design Of cyborg and Justice League He is approximately 94% robot

[00:49:53] Yeah he's a 94% robot And like 3 quarter face man Like got the opposite of Phantom of the Opera Right Where he's just got the little sliver Like if a robot lady fell in love with him He'd be like don't look at my human face That's hideous

[00:50:08] Is that what we're talking about here I just you know they should just Broaden Jean-Claude Mandant for the part Yeah Yeah The original cyborg They should have made cyborg too So in the sea Mark Rylance takes his boat out Georgie gets on board You like Georgie

[00:50:24] I love Georgie I love Georgie boy He's real shit And he goes like Georgie We're not going fishing or something We're going to fucking Dunkirk To war To war Georg And George is like Yeah yeah No I know about that No I've been to war Yeah cool

[00:50:37] I told him we were going I did this on purpose Yeah yeah yeah I definitely don't need any kind of like pillow In the back of my head You shouldn't like cover up any Georgie do you want this helmet No I need a helmet I do like

[00:50:51] I mean the Georgie's trajectory though Is really fascinating because Please go on When I first saw the film You know at the end I'm getting a little ahead of us No get ahead But at the end when You know when you see the little news item

[00:51:03] Where they talk about him being a hero And I remember initially thinking to myself Well he wasn't really a hero I mean he kind of He contributes very little Sure Contributes very little And then I realized wait no Because I mean the moment when he hits his head

[00:51:17] I mean he's basically stopping Killian Murphy from Hijacking the boat Well from bashing Mark Rylance's head in Yeah that's right And taking the boat back Yeah yeah And you know it's kind of a sacrifice he does Because later the Moonstone Is the ship is the boat that saves

[00:51:32] You know Phion Whitehead And all these other guys While they're in the oil In the oil which is Right I mean it's really I mean in essence If Georgie had not been there To kind of sacrifice himself These men would not have been saved

[00:51:45] And that's certainly something Nolan is thinking about Oh absolutely Like every sort of like Little bit of balance Like on either side He's thinking about I mean both of the There are only two major characters in this movie That die Right him And the Frenchman And the Frenchman

[00:52:01] Who dies off screen Who dies well it's like Yeah I mean you just see his hand But it is interesting how I mean with the Frenchman He's constantly conspiring To find a way off the beach Or off the boat Sure And numerous points Saves everyone else

[00:52:16] Kind of despite His own best interest Right he saves Everyone on the sinking boat By opening the door And right yeah yeah yeah And then later on When they're on the The lifeboat The one that Killian Murphy's on initially Right He's there He's kind of in the corner

[00:52:35] And he's the one who after They push them away After they push Harry And pulls him back on He tosses them a little line Very quietly So that they're pulled ashore And then at the end I mean I think he's also I guess he's also stuck

[00:52:49] But he's the last person Yeah Who has his fingers in the You know he's the last person And there's the bullet holes Yeah he's the last person Left on that boat Basically allows everyone else To survive Poor guy Yeah That's rough That's the roughest scene

[00:53:05] We'll get to that We'll get to that We got one more temporality to discuss Oh my favorite temporality And much like Aloha It's all about this guy Sure It's a conscious homage Yes No one's like a huge Aloha fan Like he said I think it's two cornerstones

[00:53:23] For this movie Where Aloha and the Thin Red Line Did you hear his list of movies? It's a good list All quiet in the western front He likes to give his little list of movies That inspired him The Wages of Fear Which is obvious

[00:53:38] The movie do two monsters only Dunstan checks in But in 70mm The original 70mm movie Of course yes If you're not seeing a 70mm It's not the same experience Agreed Wages of Fear Tense movies Like Alien Speed Which is a great movie Unstoppable

[00:53:59] Which I really enjoyed the idea Which is a great movie Love that Tony Scott movie The Tony Scott movie Yeah that movie rules Tony Scott's masterpiece Is it his last movie? Yeah It's a great movie I love that movie And I feel like he gets no credit

[00:54:11] Oh it's so great When you do the Tony Scott Have you done the Tony Scott The podcast? No we should do a Tony Scott movie Tony Scott made some wild movies Yes he did And he definitely had some Blink checks there For sure Domino Yeah Love Unstoppable

[00:54:28] Love the idea of Chris Nolan Just sitting down at home And firing up the unstoppable blue ray I'm so happy to hear this So it speaks to this thing Which is like all the most Like intelligent directors I find when you hear their movie taste Are not snobs

[00:54:48] Sure The people who are snobs Are people who like revere Nolan And they're like that's the only real kind of movie Not bullshit like unstoppable And then you ask Chris Nolan He's like I love Unstoppable It's a fantastically well constructed movie What are you talking about? Fuck you

[00:55:02] Here's a 70 millimeter re-release of Unstoppable Yeah what if that's what he's doing next He's like I've decided It's my next project I'm gonna tour Unstoppable with a live orchestra I'm gonna tour Unstoppable on a train Around the country And no one will stop us

[00:55:17] By the way getting back to that discussion The next thing he might do I mean one of the things he's always talked about Is that Howard Hughes Yeah the Hughes movie The film that he still says is the best screenplay He ever wrote

[00:55:27] Which is quite a thing for him to be saying Sure But the rules didn't apply Like I feel like every time He gets big footed By some even more famous director Yeah Well the first time that happened I mean it was the aviator

[00:55:42] And it was like two of his heroes Michael Mann and Martin Scorsese And they had joined their Hughes movies practically Right like yeah Greed, Sunrise, Ryan's Daughter Battle of Algiers, Charity of Fire Foreign correspondent Those are the other movies Great All great movies

[00:56:00] Not many of the more movies I think he was more Unstoppable makes a lot of sense Because that similarly is like Here's a speeding train Literally But then also all the different narratives Of everyone trying to stop it It's a missile the size of The Empire State Building

[00:56:19] Yes What a good film It is a great film It's so fucking cool Years ago I did a List for Vulture of the Like the however many greatest action movies Since Die Hard And I included If I remember correctly I included Unstoppable on that list

[00:56:40] And people got really angry Movies good man I should watch it again I love that movie But Temporality 3 Temporality 3 is in this guy You got three planes You got Fortis Leader We don't see much of him He is not long for this world Played by Michael Cain

[00:57:00] In a vocal omics I know it's Michael Cain on the The guy on the radio is Fortis Leader That is Fortis Leader Which I only put together later Where I was like Oh Fortis Leader bites the dust real fast Yeah Maybe 81 year old guy shouldn't be fighting

[00:57:14] It's Michael Cain Do not go gently That's what he should do He's an actor in the Winter of his life One last time Tell him don't do the poem Do not go gently Prank caller is switching You got Farrier Who is Tom Hardy

[00:57:32] And you got this guy Collins I love that actor Whoever that guy is That guy is hot He's very handsome He is really good looking Tom Hardy which is why they cover up 98% of his face in this movie Well no one was

[00:57:45] The most baller move of all time Jack load in this movie He can accent it down though It's crazy He can accent it down It is You think he's a lock He's a sitting throughout lock I haven't seen lock You get a kick out of lock

[00:58:01] That's a seated performance I guess he's one of our best sitting actors Right? Yeah, no I mean he is such a physical actor And yet For some reason because of that It actually makes sense to have him Be the guy that's sitting down And when this one

[00:58:22] I mean he does so much with just his eyes In this movie He does It's incredible eye acting Which he also I think did a good job Within The Dark Knight Rises Which is the other eye acting heavy Tom Hardy And the first half of Fury Road too

[00:58:37] Yes But this feels like That's very true For God he has the big This feels like Okay so Dark Knight Rises We covered up most of his face But he's got his full body to act with Fury Road it was like First 50% of the movie

[00:58:50] Our first 25% let's say 30% We've covered up his face And he's trained to a car So he doesn't have that much range for his body And Nolan was like Let's go a step further This next movie is going to be a remake of Derek Jarman's Blue With Tom Hardy

[00:59:05] It does feel like Like both he is challenging himself Like it feels like He gets off on like Tying his arm behind his back And still trying to like I think so Win the boxing match But also I think Nolan at this point is like What I mean

[00:59:17] He can do it right? Yeah, hey Tommy Yeah his next movie Tom Hardy is going to be in He's going to play Zordon He'll just be ahead I was going to say He's going to an entire film where he's In a coffin We already had that movie

[00:59:30] Yeah but the camera Never goes inside the coffin Sure He's in there And he doesn't talk And he doesn't talk He could do like A ghost story situation Yes, yes Where it's a 100% Yes, yes Tom Hardy just walking around With like a sack of potatoes on his head

[00:59:47] In a box and his name is Mute Bob And everyone invokes him in the entire movie And he never gets out of the box And he gets an Oscar He gets an Oscar That guy just got so much presence Oh god Burning up every frame

[01:00:00] But yeah the first like chunk of this movie He's wearing like Like a mouth A mouth mask Right at the beginning he doesn't have it And then when they They sort of enter Like you know They go into higher ups He puts it on

[01:00:13] And he basically has it on for the rest of the movie Right but then he also puts the helmet And goggles on on top of that He gets more and more covered as the film goes on I just love And it's in the trailer

[01:00:21] I just love how he says I'm on him Because in any other movie He would say that triumphantly Right And he'd say just as like I'm on him You know just like totally routine It's a work a day Yeah And apparently Tom Hardy's Grandfather Oh yeah Had flown

[01:00:38] I mean if you're a Brit You know You may well have had a veteran parent Yeah had flown for the RAF over Dunkirk And he got these real spitfires Which are amazing I mean this is where the dad shit really kicks in I feel like

[01:00:50] My dad was obsessed with spitfires That is a British man who grew up after the war Like they are like Britain Like really revered spitfires as like Our last great Like Combat thing Right I mean like Britain has really done a lot of cool war shit

[01:01:06] After World War II What's the line? The Rolls Royce engines What's the He's bragging about you know The sweetest sound you never did here Oh shmashwashers you know It's his greatest dad moment It is Of course it's later we realize it's sort of shading

[01:01:21] Because it's like he has the son Who died flying a hurricane And then Ruby Barnhill is weirdly on the boat And she goes A-A-F Now you may not have heard our BFG episode But it's one of our most celebrated And famed episodes Where he does that constantly

[01:01:40] But it's weird they just keep on having her Yell out the initials of the Royal Air Force It's in Rylan's writer Is that she has to now be with him in every movie Saying three letters She's his hype man But those spitfires are very cool to look at

[01:01:54] At least for me I found it very stirring to see the real thing Well yeah and then the crazier thing is that Nolan figured out a way to put an IMAX camera In a cockpit And fly a fucking IMAX camera in the sky And then he goes

[01:02:08] The fucking IMAX camera in the sky Which is like the greatest contribution Of this movie to cinema history for me Is like oh the closest We will ever come to feeling Like Superman Like essentially Watching those sequences Feels like you're superhuman Because I mean the plot of the

[01:02:28] Air temperality is just like They fly across Dunkirk One of them gets shot down Fly some more another one gets shot down Tom Hardy makes it there But he also has basically an hours worth of fuel Right that determines the length Of the thing

[01:02:44] And rather than turning around at a certain point He just keeps going That's sort of his big heroic decision He fights off some other guys He defends a mind sweeper And then he shows up right at the end there And early on

[01:02:58] He flies over like three of the films Big set pieces Which I love because also This is the kind of movie Conceptually it leaves no room For reflection right it's just one Giant montage Which is what being a soldier is You can't have time to reflect

[01:03:16] But the film creates these moments Of reflection by its very structure Which is another reason why I find The temperality so compelling Is that it kind of creates And it's like you would not In a movie like this Or in a set piece

[01:03:32] Like this you would not ordinarily have flashbacks There just would not be time for them It would slow everything down But the film creates flashbacks Because of you know You see Killian Murphy on the boat And he's a mess and then suddenly

[01:03:46] That's my favorite thing in the whole movie When you see him early and he's like now now boys Everyone will catch on the boat eventually He's like totally chill He is literally the most chill survivor Of a ship sinking Ever

[01:04:00] And he's in the fucking water and he's like it's warm Don't worry But also Yeah when his When Jack Loudon goes down And Tom Hardy is like oh you alright You alright And he gives him a little salute and just keeps going And we stick with Hardy

[01:04:18] And we don't resolve that until later If you watch it on IMAX And you sit close enough to the screen Which I was stupid enough to do once Sure And I actually see a tiny little hand Come out of the plane Seen from Tom Hardy's perspective

[01:04:34] A tiny little hand just goes Like like I'm mimicking A actual waving It really is and I think it was like the fourth time I saw it but I actually noticed this So you sat right at the front for the fourth time

[01:04:46] I sat in what I thought was the sixth row But somehow was the fifth row Which somehow made all the difference Sure It was a little overwhelming but at least I got to see the hand A little hand That is the thing that like

[01:05:00] The temporality thing is actually Pretty pragmatic Like it's not a gimmick at all Because it's like that's the only way he can tell this Story that he wants to tell And the fact that like we know In the same way that the Thing that's so tense and stressful

[01:05:16] About watching the mole sequences Is like fuck they still have A week to go They're not gonna get out of this easily In the Hardy sequences you're essentially Dealing in real time You know like you're not It's not a straight hour in his life

[01:05:32] And they're jumps in between But essentially like every minute you're with Hardy Is like a real minute that counts So you're feeling that sustained kind of Like What it must feel like to Have the adrenaline of being In a situation like that where every

[01:05:48] Second feels like a year That's another thing I mean With previous films And in particular I think Dark Knight Rises You know Nolan has done this thing Which ordinarily you don't do I think as an action filmmaker Which is you know he will have An action set piece

[01:06:06] That is also a montage Which is not a thing you're supposed to do I mean you'll have your big set pieces But then you know you'll have your montage And you know those are for getting over Kind of narrative prompts and it's first

[01:06:18] Speaking things up but he'll have scenes Simultaneously a montage and an action sequence It's kind of this editorial thing That he's been pushing throughout his career And in Dunkirk I feel like Dunkirk I feel like is the ultimate expression Of that because the entire movie Is basically that

[01:06:38] The entire movie is a big montage But it's also a giant action set You're right, that was brilliant I feel like we should just end the podcast Good episode thank you so much for coming on I want to talk about Harry Styles He's good

[01:06:52] So at the press screening you were at Was it the one that I was at where As I walked there it was in the morning I just had a morning I got to the Lincoln Square Theatre quite early Because I wanted that back seat

[01:07:04] Give me that right in the back Meanwhile they call me Neil Flynn Because I'm in the middle every week That's right Wednesday is at nine And I don't know if that's the time slot And there are like six girls sitting outside And I'm like

[01:07:18] Are you here for the press screening Which is a silly question to ask six girls Who are obviously 19 years old But I didn't know what else to ask They could be writing for any number Of sustained publications Exactly I should not

[01:07:32] And they were like no we're here for the premiere And I was seeing it on a Monday And I knew the premiere was that Tuesday At that theater And I was like but that's tomorrow And they were like yeah They were really in a different

[01:07:46] And then when it came out they were like Does he die? And I was like you want to know I was kind of shocked and they were like Yeah and I was like no He makes it he's good It's a movie about people making it

[01:08:00] It's not a movie about people dying Because I when they announced Harry Styles Was in this I'm like oh yeah he'll get his head blown off Like in scene two right Like it'll just be like a brief hello You know Nolan's not stupid

[01:08:12] Or like what was the in sync members Who were in Phantom Menace Remember you are I think they were cut out Were they cut out? Yeah That was a big thing Right I think it was Phetone and Lance Bass Were like huge Phantom Menace heads Sure

[01:08:30] And then Lucas' daughter was into in sync She was like dad please Was it Attack of the Clones? But were they cut out of it? They were supposed to play Jedi Knights In the Geonosis battle They were given Jedi robes shoes And padawan braids And they fully shot

[01:08:48] Two different scenes that were cut From the film They were paired off And you know just I think just told Like wave your lightsabers around There's plenty of pictures of the mon set Like plenty I say this as You're a defender of the prequels

[01:09:06] I'm a defender of the prequels in general I'm not a big fan of Phantom Menace I do love Revenge of the Sith And Attack of the Clones is like a rollercoaster ride Of scenes I hate And then scenes I love It's just veers back and forth

[01:09:22] But how fucking distracting With that movie of being suddenly two members of In sync Yoda Especially if they were in Sith like getting murdered And like Jimmy Smith was like no That'd be good That'd be great The Harry Styles thing felt weird

[01:09:38] And it felt when it came out That he was in the movie it almost felt like Okay so he's doing this weird like sort of adult Blockbuster this very Kind of what will likely be a very somber Movie produced at a very high budget

[01:09:50] With mostly a cast of like Noted British You know character actors And supporting roles and unknowns in the lead Did Warner Brothers like push him to put Harry Styles in there for like a little bit of Insurance Is he gonna be really distracting

[01:10:06] Are you never gonna be able to get over the fact that he's Harry Styles and especially for me when the movie started And you see how much it is Just this like sort of collection of chaos That's ongoing it's like

[01:10:16] Is he gonna stick out like a sore thumb I was so impressed by how well He integrated himself to the tabasit He totally belongs He does belong It took me a while before I realized I mean I've seen Harry Styles I'm not a fan

[01:10:30] But like I've seen pictures of the guy Be able to recognize him but it was actually like a couple Of scenes in was like oh wait that's Harry Styles I was more ready for him I'm not really a hero but I have like people in my life

[01:10:40] Who are big Harry Styles fans I mean people who are hyped up For it and And again I was just like oh he's Gonna just because in the trailer There's the scene of them in the boat with the gunfire Hitting and I was like that's it he'll just

[01:10:52] You know they'll just pop them off there I guess there was that shot of him drowning Which I think is in the first Boat sinking scene And so I had this weird Tension in the first few scenes where I was like

[01:11:04] He's not dying and then I just sort of Settled in and he settles I think he's Nolan argues like I didn't even know Who he was and I he just auditioned Against other actors and I He was best for the part and it's like alright

[01:11:18] I'm the most deliberate, careful filmmaker Alive Somehow I was not aware of who this guy is Also like father of teenage girls British teenage girls He knows who Harry Styles is You think he's ever talked to his kids though? No I'm sure he's a very nice

[01:11:36] He's apparently a very devoted family Yeah, doesn't even have like a cellphone Right that's the thing about him He's home, he's home When he steps off that set You better not keep calling I fantasize about that so much What about blank check

[01:11:52] This is me texting you to be on blank check That's what I'm saying My fantasy is that I could become as powerful as Chris For Nolan so then not have to ever respond To anything and just be like If I'm in a room I'll talk to you

[01:12:06] Text messages Stress me out One day Have fun doing that That'll be the day that everyone stops Putting up with me Well great, that is Empirically not worth it Bye Griffin Alright so We're not doing enough of the mole stuff We're not doing enough of Harry

[01:12:28] Because we have the whole scene where the boat sinks With the jam The bread and jam So I saw this movie with Past and Future guest Sam Rigaugh And he When the jam When we saw them eating the tostless jam We both laughed and turned to each other

[01:12:46] And we're like I mean it's just It's so British that like There's some fucking wonder bread eat it And then in this movie you have to imagine that there's Some chef in the back like Furiously spreading just the right amount of jam Like it's so perfectly

[01:13:02] Placed on each slice But it like speaks to like the British sensibility Where it's like well we shan't lose Civility even in the face of danger Apparently at the real Dunkirk it was somewhat more Chaotic I can imagine But I love that and the film

[01:13:18] Is so visceral and you get so into it At least I did and at that point I was like I really want some fucking bread jam Also you're stressed out It's been stressful so far They get on the boat I'm very

[01:13:30] Stressed out because I'm like this boat thing Is a no go this is a bad This is not going to work out for them Let's just go back to Dunkirk And don't these idiots know they have Six days left? Did they read the title

[01:13:42] Card? Haven't they seen Atonement There's the guys singing in the gazebo Go in that gazebo and sure it'll be fine This movie would be a lot shorter If they had seen Atonement If the characters in the film had seen it This is just like Atonement

[01:13:56] It's like a bunch of people going to sing And Joe Wright's going to ostentatiously Glide by them, it's going to be great None of this really happened, it's all conjecture Yes exactly And then That is More visceral fear than like war For me is drowning

[01:14:14] Is like a boat going under That's pretty impressive to Stage the way he does And having come very close To drowning twice in my life He got twice? It was, you know I mean it's so compelling Watching that and just so terrifying Especially because it's like

[01:14:34] Immediately very dark It's all just like flailing bodies And the door opening Is like it's barely perceptible Except that he's looking at it And then later on there's that scene When they're in the oil There's one of the That's the worst one

[01:14:52] I said this once about Titanic too But like boat sinking movies Are really just films Built around A collection of terrible ways to die Yes But like that one guy who is One of the guys on the I guess the trawler Who is You know

[01:15:14] Everything is burning on the surface of the water So he's like hiding underneath But he can't stay under But he's gonna drown so he has to actually surface And then just burns a lot I have spent a lot of idle time As an obsessive fatalistic person

[01:15:30] Weighing in my mind whether I would rather burn to death or drown Like I was like those are the two ways I would least like to die And then Nolan's like hold my beer Burn and drown What if both at the same time

[01:15:48] And it's like wait but no one that gets the other And he's like no oil in the water You are drowning in fire I'm on the record as loving a wet You're a wet guy Soaking wet panties And so you know this is a slick flick The oil

[01:16:04] It's an oil slick flick Exactly, it's not good water It's the bad water. You're in oil, the bad kind They need Kevin Costner to come in with his Oil machine Or with his gills or with his gills But do you remember during the BP oil spill

[01:16:20] When he went to Congress and he's like I have put $10 million into a machine That can separate oil from water I do remember that We're good, we don't need it What happened? For some reason Not a month goes by that I don't Whatever happened to Kevin Costner

[01:16:38] In his turning oil into water Yeah, we could be using that There were a lot of applications for that thing Yeah But unfortunately McFarland USA gets a wide release And then I release the blueprints First I have to teach these Mexican kids How to run

[01:16:56] He's made some choices The thing about that movie is his name is Mr. White Because he's a white person I don't know if you've seen it I actually, I didn't hate that movie I don't either It was actually okay It's Nick Carrot It came like a month after

[01:17:14] The other one which was terrible Black or white That's the one I really wanted to rag on But McFarland USA is a funnier title Because it's just such an Uncommercial title And also do you know that Kevin Costner wholly Financed black or white

[01:17:32] Yes, I know, we've talked about it He read the script and no one would make it On the oil machine I worked in R&D I thought he was good at hidden figures too I sort of forget that he's in that movie But he's a good actor

[01:17:48] I will say though Watching hidden figures He kind of outpits Pit in terms of eating in every scene He does eat a lot And I just could totally see him He's like, I need something Someone hand me a bagel

[01:18:04] He's one of those actors who's always trying to find other stuff To do and not play up too much And that movie was the one where it feels like they let him do All of it Give me more chewing gum He needs to be

[01:18:16] Somebody needs to kind of come in And do something special with him He's so powerful He'd be so good in the Nolan movie He was cast in Jingo and then he dropped out And it was a character that then they folded I think they removed the character

[01:18:32] After he dropped out Was it going to be like Will Smith and Kevin Costner In Jingo? Yeah, exactly He was supposed to be an earlier antagonist Maybe he could have done the Don Johnson part Yeah, but it was a different part

[01:18:48] That was the thing, Don Johnson had already been cast And they cast Kevin Costner We are redeeming way too many Aging right actors It's funny that Don Johnson or Kevin Costner A flyer considering that he went for Eric Roberts And all those guys

[01:19:04] Right, no I think what happened was they were like After Costner dropped out Tarantino was like Well we just removed his character And we gave some of the dialogue to Walton Goggins Walton Goggins is carrying Some of the weight that his character used to have Very interesting

[01:19:22] So back over to the sea I want to take us to the sea You've got Killian Murphy We should talk about that performance And that whole segment of the movie Which a few people I know Struggled with that more because it is the most Non-realistic

[01:19:38] It's the most sort of Fancyful seems to like a weird word for But you know like this sort of Yeah exactly, the weird circumstance of it Like being knocked down the stairs It feels more Hollywood I guess I thought you meant finding him on the boat

[01:19:52] That's all good because I love that's like a Powell Pressburger moment Exactly him just sitting on And the propeller is just turning And you hear the propeller sound in the back And he's so fucking Goodness we've talked about him a lot In this miniseries

[01:20:08] It's been a most of these movies But He's doing this very odd kind of Like there's something sort of heightened In an old Hollywood way about his performance Oh yeah absolutely Like a broken deconstructed version of an old Hollywood Like Matt and A. Idle In a weird way

[01:20:26] That scene where he says Mark Ralliance to turn the boat around It's so well done Physically it's such a great Bit of acting because He kind of does this thing with his hand He's kind of flicking and pointing He's like turn this boat around immediately

[01:20:42] He's also concave as he does so He's just so broken but there's just that little bit Of kind of officer training He's just going to turn the boat around immediately And I also It's also so touching Because once you do find out

[01:20:56] Once you do kind of get that quote unquote flashback And you see him on the lifeboat earlier Then you sort of realize What this guy has been through Because he was on We know essentially he was blown up Twice out of the water He was on that boat

[01:21:12] That went down so which is why He was on that lifeboat And then he probably wound up on another boat Which was then blown up again Right And now he's being picked up by these guys And The first thing he realizes is

[01:21:28] Oh my god these assholes are going back to Dunkirk And it took him a second He has no idea because he doesn't know Nobody knows anything in this movie And he does not know that Boats have been Requisitioned or activated No why would he think about that

[01:21:44] He's such a ludicrous concept These idiots are going to Dunkirk They sort of conceal it Well they lock him in the Cabin Which seems like that's a poor strategic decision But the kid does But you totally get why he does No you do he's frightening

[01:22:02] But it's also I mean I actually love that bit with The kid contemplating whether to lock him in And then locking him in In any other movie I feel like He would be locked in And then there would be some sort of struggle But here it's

[01:22:18] He's trying to get out and Mark Rylance comes down And he's like why the hell did you lock him in Let him out and he's already gone out That's the climactic moment That's where he shoves Georgie Poor Georgie Poor Georgie, what a good cat

[01:22:32] He's kind of an idiot It really is though It's such a nightmare When you put yourself in Killian Murphy's shoes And he's out there going back to Dunkirk And then they lock him in At that point he's ready to kill everybody That's the thing that lasts the moment

[01:22:48] Especially considering what a gentle environment it is To anyone else There are whiz poppers and fuzz wimples Yeah exactly, there are farting corgis on that boat And yet But I think also especially to Brits But to Americans too The idea of being shell shocked is such an abstract

[01:23:04] Concept we're all aware of Where it's like oh yeah they're quiet It doesn't get dug into in movies It's hard to dig into it in movies I agree and I suggest Because it's such an unambiguous thing too In addition to the fact that Killian Murphy is such a

[01:23:18] Good physical actor I think he's really good at harnessing The certain kind of squirminess that makes him Really well suited For you know like The moments like what the one you Outlined where he's sort of contradicting Through his body everything He's saying with his mouth Are really fascinating

[01:23:38] But also he is such a pretty man And he has such stunning eyes And to watch those eyes just be dead And his face kind of look broken Without him doing any obvious contortion You know It's a stunning image to see

[01:23:52] Like when they first pull him out and you're like oh fuck This guy is just completely Broken inside at this moment There's no hiding from this He is a beautiful man and that is why All the time they work together Christopher Nolan covered his face

[01:24:08] With the sac on Killian Who's got the best mouth in Hollywood Tom Hardy what am I going to do Cover that mouth Every time put a mask over The mouth Not an inception He's person is lips an inception That's true So what else should we talk about

[01:24:28] I mean there's the I guess the tugboat scene Or whatever you know the way the They hit Tommy And Harry Styles And various other characters end up in that boat Oh yeah You're talking about the spy sequence Where they're trying to figure out The trawler it's a trawler

[01:24:46] A Dutch trawler Which is claustrophobic And they're getting shot at It's horrible and that's the scene Where I really panic That wouldn't flip me Well it's also intercut with a couple of things But when the water's starting to come in It's intercut with The Collins

[01:25:08] Drowning or all nearly drowning in his plane That's intercut with that sequence And that's actually something else that Nolan does In this movie that is Because you mentioned The idea of when you first saw it You thought oh is he going to kind of

[01:25:22] Really rigidly stick to this structure Sure the one two three one two Yeah and instead what he does is He's going to cut around sort of thematic elements So that's a scene where he's cutting around This idea of water Stuck in the water

[01:25:36] And then there's that other scene where The moonstone is trying to avoid A plane while Another plane is Attacking Branagh and those guys at the mall Yes There's actually another one earlier that I caught The last time I saw it And I can't remember what it is exactly

[01:25:54] But there is another moment where All three different temporalities It's a kind of a turning moment where I think it's when Tom Hardy First sees in his I guess his rear view mirror I guess he has one on a plane

[01:26:08] Yeah why not, who needs to see behind you Where he sees the plane headed Towards the The minesweeper Which eventually we later realize The kind of central That's the final oil set piece Right yes Yeah he's grouping things together I really like that scene where

[01:26:28] The moonstone avoids it Good work And then all these other little things Come into play Because at the end, the very last bit Of sort of suspense In the film is This tiny little moment of Is that plane's Landing wheels going to come out In time

[01:26:50] While the Winston Churchill speech is being read And he's pumping it out And finally also Zimmer's score is Chilling out and has become Melodic, which it has not been for the whole Movie. For the whole movie it's this weird Sort of like throne

[01:27:04] It's like an escalating dog with It's never quite complete some musical Sentence until the end And then finally he has And Also you get that shot of Hardy's face Afterwards saying, you know It's like Tantric's sex Did Sting actually score this movie? Yeah he did

[01:27:24] It's like Sorbet after a 15 course meal But a meal where they keep They're sort of rattling the plates around And they're throwing the food at you It's like Sorbet after a food fight But then there are these moments in the movie It's hard for Nolan because

[01:27:40] I think when you have the slightly Plottier segments Like Bobby, George you started getting Pushed down the stairs And then you have the guys turning on the French guy All of a sudden And there's more dialogue And there's more like It's not just a sensory experience

[01:27:58] We have to think about character motivations I don't think these scenes are bad I just think that they are somewhat jarring That's a complaint I've heard Registered that I get more than the complaint Of like, I don't care how the timeline Match up

[01:28:12] I don't really have a problem with that I'm more just throwing that out there I mean just the fucking The satisfaction you get when the timeline Starts to merge As you said, Symphonic It's this crescendo where suddenly Everything's in harmony It's pretty powerful

[01:28:32] It's this thing that he's capable of doing That I think very few filmmakers Are And especially very few Working at this kind of scale Within the studio system You can get an emotional response Out of The mere craft Of what he's executing

[01:28:52] Not even the content of what he's communicating But it's that same thing that happens in Inception Where you just have these emotional responses To like, oh my god these fucking 12 things Happening at the same time All this different movement And the music swelling

[01:29:08] All these different images that now have this combined Kind of power And the reverse giddiness that comes from like Oh shit, Hardy is now there Branna is there We haven't talked about Branna at all You know I mean he's doing exactly What they hired him to do

[01:29:26] Which is be Kenneth Branna Deliver the minimal exposition we have And just be this pillar of fucking moral Integrity He's basically doing the same part he did In the The Olympics opening ceremony Well he's basically just the guy in the middle of it all Yes

[01:29:44] He's got an ace up his sleeve He's got a signature move which he fucking owns He slams down the table a couple different times Every time just as effective Which is slowly taking off his cap While turning his head to look off at the horizon

[01:29:56] He does it like three times Boy does he kill it though Like if I had a move that good I would do it fucking 12 times Like he should play Iago again And just try taking his cap off Through you know midway through us

[01:30:08] Some could argue that doing it Three times is gilding the Lily And I would argue he actually shows An amazing amount of restraint In not doing it 20 times He doesn't go into the ocean of ham He does not and it's right there

[01:30:22] Do you know about the river of ham? What is the river of ham? When Kenneth Branna was directing Thor 1 Ray Stevenson who of course Played a Volstag our favorite character In the MCU Volstag One of the Warriors 3 The jolly meat loving member of the Warriors 3

[01:30:40] Yeah not the subtlest character to be fair He's a fat guy who is always Eating meat with his bare hands He's sort of the Brad Pitt of the Warriors 3 Right? Rusty that's the character Yes Branna was directing him And Stevenson said I don't know about that

[01:31:00] It feels like it might You know I'm worried about dipping A toe into the river Did he even say I think Branna was the one who said it It might be Hammy and he said Trust me with this performance

[01:31:12] You want to dip a toe into the river of ham River of ham I think that's his phrase And then Stevenson said it's a good river And Branna said I've swam in that river many a time It is a man made river Which I have built

[01:31:26] I built it But no but he's like He's knowing exactly how much paprika He's like he's going to put on the sandwich in this performance Which could be very overcooked And over cranked I think if you're too aware You know what I should give Ray Stevenson credit

[01:31:42] I googled it You were right You know what I'll dip my toe into the river of ham And Branna said trust me I've swam in that river many a time You'd enjoy it Right Stevenson is the one who But Branna then revealed

[01:31:56] That it was his river all along It was the Kenneth Branagh Memorial River But he's not really hamming it up I mean he's hamming it up In more of a Mrs. Miniver way Which is sort of like His upper lip is so stiff He's got all his non-existent

[01:32:12] Upper lip He's a thin lip man But this is the kind of performance That I feel like exceptionally tricky To pull off where you have to Carry weight in a film Representing something More than just playing the character Organically in a behavioral way You have to represent things

[01:32:32] And you have to carry the audience along I've seen actors who are too aware Of that responsibility And lose the human element And I've also seen actors who I think Are so concerned with playing it human That they don't fully rise to the occasion

[01:32:46] Of what the movie's asking him to do It's like right in the strike zone And James Darcy Listens to him He's solid but he hasn't asked to do much other than Not, yes. And he says like, don't they want the boats?

[01:33:00] Or I don't know, he has to ask the questions Destroyers, where are the destroyers? Where are the Air Force? There is quite a bit of exposition That Branagh goes through in the film It's all on him pretty much I didn't actually catch most of it the first time

[01:33:14] Not because I didn't have a problem with hearing the dialogue It's more that you're just so wrapped up in What's happening that you stop paying attention to dialogue I thought that the movie, it's hard to process words You've gotten so into the movie's wavelength

[01:33:26] Which is all this sort of movement Bombass and the sort of paranoia Scanning the film for any possible threats That when suddenly just two people talking on a pier You're like, what the fuck is this? And he's actually offering a lot of information Sorry, I didn't know

[01:33:40] The Air Force, the Tom Hardy scenes I'll admit the second time I saw it It was clearer Especially what's being said over the radio I'm axed, I struggled They're just kind of like The second time I was like Oh, that's Michael Cain Exactly

[01:33:58] But apart from that, I didn't really have I don't know It's not a dialogue heavy movie I often don't understand At least 25-30% of what I hear in movies As far as dialogue is concerned With this one it just didn't So you don't pay attention

[01:34:16] Basically I am a move wrong With movie going today You're just taking pictures of the screen With your phone I just want to know if Harry lives or dies He lives They make it off of the horrible trawler Right, where he's the one who becomes

[01:34:32] Very paranoid and very That's what I'm saying, like it's It's not like it's a difficult turn to understand But it's more like Oh, I have to suddenly think about this as a human being In a different way Rather than just sort of like this person

[01:34:46] Who desperately wants to survive in a very basic way I don't have a problem with the scene It's more just It's plotty The dialogue is a little Fluid at this moment He says, I bet he doesn't even speak a word of English

[01:35:00] And if he did it would be Slathered in his sauerkraut You're like, alright, we're in German You're saying he's German There's people shooting outside But I like that he isn't I like that he's not German That he's not a spy

[01:35:16] Who's just trying to survive like the rest of them And in the process has ended up doing a lot of good Sure, yeah Has helped their men a lot His initial instincts Were totally Based in cowardice Yeah, but now he's A cowardice we can all understand

[01:35:34] And he is risen to the occasion Also with Harry Styles I mean his character There is a strange and touching Quality to his character But he's a guy Who doesn't really Think very hard about These things This guy isn't talking, he must be a spy

[01:35:54] And then later on he's also the one Who really has to express this notion Well We lost, we had to evacuate We're all going to be humiliated He's the one who has to express These very basic, very base Emotions That are then turned around

[01:36:12] And then undercut and redeemed by the movie Which is why it helps having someone With a bit of a rock star swagger Like that, that sort of movie star confidence And that look and everything Because it's a guy who needs to be completely

[01:36:24] Convinced that his first impressions are 100% correct Because even when he figures out he's French He's still annoyed at him At that point you'd think Let's drop it and get it And as a character it almost feels like He thinks he's the lead of the movie

[01:36:40] Like I'm the leader everyone's turning to Looking for an answer I think where Stiles is actually good Rather than just blending in well That's seen on the train at the end Where he's so ashamed In this way he can articulate

[01:36:54] He thinks they're all going to be greeted as cowards Because they basically ran away In a very elaborate way And he's struggling to process Like that they are being greeted as heroes You really need somebody And that's why I think his performance is really valuable here

[01:37:10] Because you really need somebody To express that Very clearly And very compellingly So that when It turns out that the guys are just trying to get them a beer So that Emotional turn Really resonates Otherwise it was just kind of confusing

[01:37:30] And we didn't quite know how they fell And then suddenly they were It would still work I think That emotion of humiliation Really has to be expressed Very clearly at that moment Can't stand that John Nolan doesn't look at him Even though he's just blind

[01:37:46] That's John Nolan from following Right He's in all his movies Is he also blind in the prestige Is he in the prestige as a blind man I think of John Nolan He's always in the port In the Batman movie He's in all the Batman movies

[01:38:04] In Dark Knight Rises He says that's outrageous And then Pat Leahy, the center from Vermont Is Sidney Axelman and he's like I'll tell you something about Bruce Wayne He's in a lot of those movies He's an old English guy Who's his uncle Yeah Yeah

[01:38:24] It's pretty much the effect It's a stressful movie When you said this Scuttlebutt about Will Nolan do a horror movie This feels like the closest He could make to a horror movie This is sort of in his wheelhouse I think he's even said that

[01:38:40] It's not really a horror movie It's just a survival movie And also the enemy is so Hard to grasp at It feels almost rent It's horrifying the way the enemy is acting And there's that line We have no personal perspective on them There's that quote that I'm gonna

[01:38:58] Fuck up now All war movies are propaganda because movies Make war look cool In one way or another There's sort of heroism that happens To whichever side you're leaning on Most World War II movies people are like Well that was the good one

[01:39:14] We were doing something right there There are a couple that don't And it is interesting The responses people will have to those Even then you would argue that those movies Are propaganda in an anti-war way You know In some kind of way It's either the brutality of war

[01:39:32] But this is weirdly one of the few war movies I've ever seen That feels completely apolitical Because it's just about here are people In this situation trying to survive Like that's all it's concerned with Not the larger aspirations of what they're fighting for

[01:39:46] Or who they're trying to survive Being attacked by Or any of that In a weird way As much as I don't like war movies I was like a kid And I would doodle Movie ideas in my notebook When I wasn't paying attention to math class Real cool kid

[01:40:06] And I was the only kind of war movie That I feel like I would ever be able To come up with is just that It's just a movie of one person trying to survive Being in this situation Or a horse A war horse if you will

[01:40:20] Maybe you can make war horse too This movie is crazy Hardly horse Hyper horse We're horse to the widow maker Sure let's do it But it is like a very tense movie It's a very experiential movie In that final scene where you haven't even considered

[01:40:38] The emotional context of what they've gone through You haven't even considered how they'd process all of this The sense that they'd be ashamed Is like a totally new idea Of course not, what are you talking about Like you just went through the worst horror

[01:40:50] We're all so humbled by the very idea But that's the other thing I think it speaks to Is like these kids are so young Like these are like young boys In this situation so they don't know How they're going to be taken in Once they return home

[01:41:04] Because they don't really understand What they've been through Which I find very profound Emotionally devastating Absolutely and there is also Yeah the film is Very good about sort of keeping You in the dark at these various points To sort of mimic the way That the characters themselves

[01:41:24] Don't really know what's happening Another thing about that is Visually something that always jumps out at me In the movie is Towards the end when We're in Tom Hardy's plane And We see this shot of the plane flying And you see The town of Dunkirk from

[01:41:44] The sky finally And it's just fascinating because It's like this pleasant little resort town It's the only moment when you It's a nice seaside town And it's the only moment when you kind of get that It almost looks modern There are some buildings there and I'm like

[01:42:00] That does not look like a building that would have existed in 1940 For all I know maybe it's not But I also find that so touching The way that Right at the end the film kind of opens up Very briefly Just give you a little bit more context

[01:42:14] Right because everyone just thinks of a beach Think of the town of Dunkirk or the evacuation Whatever you want to call it Can we talk about the last couple Hardy shots I know we've just involved Setting up the sequel Getting the thing you want to

[01:42:28] It's true, Hardy has Prisoner of War And for some reason he has like a mask on his face I don't know whatever He's in a cage and it's just His eye is exposed It's one of those cages where you can just pull apart the little bar Yeah

[01:42:44] The next performance Please He's going to be wearing a morph suit And the only part of his skin that's going to be visible is his pointer finger Great What do you want to say about the last Or a barrel, what if he's in a barrel

[01:42:58] And he just sticks his finger out of the barrel and wiggles it Yeah, he plays like a whiskey maker Who gets trapped together No, I just think You know there's something to It's almost like This This is a small thing of like take something away from people

[01:43:14] And make them realize how much they Care about in the first place The fact that the biggest star of the movie Is Wearing a mask the entire time In a plane physically constricted Set within very narrow confines In terms of even the Timeline of what he's in

[01:43:32] That you know once we have The sort of relief of oh shit Zimmer swelling The landing wheels have come out You know I don't know how to fucking describe stuff Right he's pulling the thing The landing gear you know is set He gets on the beach

[01:43:48] And then everything sort of like widens out Like you were saying, like you finally get Hardy in these Wider shots where he's a smaller element And he takes the mask off and here it is Like he's fucking, he's Tom Hardy He's got the best face in the world

[01:44:02] And now he's going to give you like a full face reaction Shot and to immediately undercut That with like No they got him They got him Right he sets his plane on fire That shot of him looking at the burning plane I find very I mean he's well

[01:44:20] He's very warming in general It's very warming and then you see the guy I just think it's like Nice red glow He's Not like a legendary war hero You know He's a guy who saved these people And he got caught and now he's just going to

[01:44:38] Go through a lot of bad shit Like he's just some guy who was doing His job in a way you know Yeah Anything else you guys want to say before we play the box office Game? I mean you should Yeah it's happy isn't You're closing thoughts

[01:44:54] You've said a lot I've said too much No that's crazy There are a couple of these little things in the film Where they do provide a little bit Of additional historical context Like the whole bit with the royal engineers Building these makeshift peers With the trucks Incredible site

[01:45:14] Which was actually one of the Big things about The Dunkirk evacuation was that They built these makeshift Peers so that some of the boats could approach And The film actually, like the first time I saw it I didn't notice that at all

[01:45:30] And then the second time I saw it There was actually a through line In the movie we come back to it several times And there's that very sort of Self-satisfied Shot of the head of the I guess he's like the head of the royal engineers

[01:45:44] There an officer just kind of Beaming at their Handy work after they've built that pier I love that That pier is crazy, yeah and there's that sort of Triumph and swelly moment he gets you there When the boats are arriving And The last German plane Yes

[01:46:04] Like he finally, there is like a lot of release At the end there I Read an interview that Nolan said his pitch to Warner Brothers After he had put away his little 10 planes was he said I want to make a VR without the headset Sure

[01:46:24] Which like the very didactic interpretation of that is like While the way he used IMAX To run the plane and really kind of a Mercy in the situation but it is a movie that like Is constructed In terms of It's use of every

[01:46:38] Single element the way it tells the story What shows you what it doesn't show you to just Put you in the headspace of these people trying to survive Yeah These moments that you're catching them in And I think like on that On that score he like really succeeded

[01:46:52] I mean he's made a very Weird movie It's a weird movie and I think it's very much An Unexpected type of Film as much as it's a blank Check movie there is an astonishing amount Of restraint and Reserve in it And that he's choosing only to really tackle

[01:47:12] A couple different goals and a very Slight kind of Three slices of this larger story In all of that we said In our When we were in the first chunk of our Series the first four Yeah right the first three Three Nolan movies that are These neo-noirs

[01:47:32] That like it's kind of weird that he made The shift to being this big blockbuster filmmaker Because it feels like he could have been this for the rest of his life And it's like sort of sad to think He probably won't make a movie like this again

[01:47:42] Like he's just gonna feel the need to escalate And escalate and escalate but this movie Is this weird case of him like going bigger And smaller at the same time And it makes me very excited about his future If he's gonna keep on taking risks like this

[01:47:54] And keep on going like Sure I'll like play within the genres you know Right and keep having them pay off That's really sort of It's not just going to be Increasingly grandiose pictures Right he's not gonna have Yeah which is sort of what happened

[01:48:10] To James Cameron I think But it is very much a He's bigger every time And he is one of these guys who always says well I'm thinking about making a Movie doing a smaller movie next Yeah sure right right right

[01:48:22] But at the same time 3D with no glasses Can we do it? Right but that's like I feel like a lot of the film actually Is covered there's a bit of like you can't go home again You know and either What they turn into eventually is still good

[01:48:36] Or they lose their way And then when they try to go small again they get Fuck but they kind of Ultimately in one way or another get away from whatever They were originally doing because success kind of becomes This cage, this trapping, the expectations

[01:48:48] And everything but like Nolan seems to be interested in figuring out How to make the biggest movies he can But not feeling burdened By the need to make them Epics it's not like Self justify their size by Pumping them full of self importance or narrative

[01:49:04] Bloat or any sort of Things that I think can really Ultimately like Sink interesting directors Sure it's Interesting movie you can definitely imagine the guy who made The Mento making this movie Yes Ben wait Sorry do you have anything you want to say You haven't talked much

[01:49:24] So this is a dead husband Movie Just saying all the men who are telling this movie Have wives You got that element One of the point that out but Did the lights stay down For during the credits At your screenings I don't know I can't No bloopers

[01:49:48] No outtakes That's what I thought was going on There is a sequence of you saying after the credits There's a sequence where the entire cast and crew Things build me a buttercup Now that I would have liked to have seen

[01:50:02] I would like to see a Christopher Nolan comedy I know That the accusation is that he's humorless And I completely disagree with that These movies can be funny It's hard to imagine An out and out comedy of manners To ask him about Christopher Nolan Isn't that what happened

[01:50:20] With Coppola basically I'm going to make a romantic musical Comedy next and then that was when it all came crashing down It was And yeah I guess maybe That would be the actual challenge for him He could mount Some sort of like

[01:50:36] Big like let's play the box office game I was going to say musical would be interesting To see him do but he would have to pick It would have to be a Les Mis Ask kind of musical tragedy I don't think he could do anything goes Robot musical

[01:50:50] Tars musical Tars the musical Dancing with the Tars One of Stanley Kubrick's greatest regrets was Apparently not Being able to make a musical That was the one genre he really loved And really wanted to tackle You can kind of see it in all his movies

[01:51:08] Like where Gorgorange has several musical scenes And 2001 Is sort of like a weird musical But he made a great comedy Nolan doesn't have that on his belt yet But Why doesn't he make well number one at the box office On the weekend of July 21st

[01:51:26] Was Dunker for $50 million What was number two at the box office It was a comedy Opening against it This should be a slam dunk for me To make it a boring segment But I'm so overtired and so jet lagged It's the biggest comedy of 2017 Girlstrip

[01:51:44] Now could Nolan make a girlstrip You know Could he step into Malcolm D Lee's shoes Probably not No, probably not Not everyone can do everything Can I stand for Girlstrip for a second Everyone talks about Tiffany Haddish She's great Regina Hall She's been doing such

[01:52:06] Consistently good work for like 18 years She's a very underrated actress A really crazy underrated actress Right And I just feel like I know a lot of people saw Girlstrip and were like Who is that lead woman You've seen her in 18 things

[01:52:22] She's been in a bunch of crazy successful movies Equally good at supporting and leading roles She's got that end monologue That she delivers Like in her keynote speech That's like 8 minutes long of like straight talk I just think she's a very good actress I just haven't seen Girlstrip

[01:52:40] I really want to Number 3 Was a big Marvel movie Spider-Man Hulk Michael Keaton the movie Michael Keaton is the movie Is the Vulture Man He's a Trump voter What do you think of Spider-Man It's kind of a boring box up I'm not a fan of Spider-Man

[01:53:02] You actually didn't like it I actually did not like it I was surprised Because I had a good time I mean it was like a TV show to me That's my exact feeling I feel like I watched 3 episodes Of Spider-Man the TV show

[01:53:18] It just felt kind of inssequential to me But like inconsequential But watching it I was enjoying it I went to see I took my son to see Spider-Man And the day before I had taken him to see Baby Driver Which I probably shouldn't admit

[01:53:32] Since that's an R rated movie And it was interesting seeing how You know once I mean Both films are hits Baby Driver has made like 100 million Or a hundred or some absurd amount of money But it was interesting Like the crowd at both places

[01:53:48] The crowd at Baby Driver Was totally wrapped They were just locked into that movie Nobody left to go to the bathroom Or to get more popcorn or whatever Spider-Man movie was More packed Sold out screening And it was just It was like a carnival

[01:54:08] I mean half the people in that room were not Really watching the whole movie I mean people were I sat in one of those kind of You know Like I had some The passage to get to the exit was right in front of me

[01:54:22] So I could see all the people leaving Like I constantly had to keep moving my legs Just so and it just occurred to me You know these people They don't actually Have the time they're not even really watching It's Spider-Man, it's the Marvel movie

[01:54:36] You just have to go because It's like voting It's like a civil obligation And the marketing genius behind Creating Movies Where it's seen as an obligation You're not even really having fun But put your time in because it's going to pay off For the next one anyway

[01:54:56] That's the movie, it's opening this week And the kids want to see it And it was fine It passed the time you don't actively want Your two and a half hours back But nothing special was done with it Nothing It's just so depressing

[01:55:12] It's weird to me how many people I talk to Who say like I only go see Marvel movies in theaters And it's not because they're Marvel fans I don't really like seeing things in theaters I've been watching stuff on Netflix But it's funny because Marvel movies are often

[01:55:24] Visually uninteresting Yeah But hey man See my weird thing with Spider-Man was I really liked all the Peter Parker stuff I liked all the high school stuff I don't think it amounted to much But when it was operating just as kind of like a teen dramedy

[01:55:40] I was really locked into it Anytime Michael Keaton was Keating it up I enjoyed everything he did But anytime it went to Spider-Man fighting somebody It was just so disconnected Just nothing to really Watch And I could watch those Rami swinging sequences A thousand times in a row

[01:55:58] I still find them thrilling And that first Rami is really It's like 90% teen dramedy 10% swinging scenes Yeah it's like That movie is like a weird Like a Douglas Cirque version of a high school movie It's great I love it Those two Rami movies The first two rule

[01:56:22] We gotta do Rami, man Because the first one has some major issues But it's so fucking charming And there's so much style And also it's setting down a template that Is gonna be The bedrock of so much of these movies

[01:56:36] That follow except they're gonna be way watered down But what you're talking about Those sort of wild comic bookie montages And it's simultaneously Much more heightened than the comic book movies we get today Very broad performances And very emotional and human There are these very human scenes

[01:56:52] That one in the backyard When Mary Jane Peter's throwing out the trash Her dad's yelling at her And they have this conversation where you realize They've known each other but never really talked to this degree It's such fucking epic I haven't seen the first one in a while

[01:57:08] I rewatched the first two after seeing Homecoming Which I enjoyed, I thought was fun We gotta go No, it's true War for the plan of the apes is number four Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know that you'd guess it This is when you realize how badly

[01:57:22] What I believe number five Did This is my frowny face I believe it is Valerian in the city of a thousandth plan Opening that weekend That weekend And then I suffered as a film critic through August

[01:57:38] Where I was like, what the fuck do I even review this week There's nothing And why not just open it Like the ass into August, it might make some money I wonder if they thought I wonder if their gamble was They looked at They looked at Dunkirk

[01:57:54] They looked at the fact that Maybe Interstellar was seen as kind of a disappointment Even though it wasn't really But maybe they just thought to themselves You know what We're banking on Nolan withing I guess so I think it was hubris I think like my big

[01:58:12] Thought I had watching Valerian was like Which is a great movie and one of the best of the year I had issues with it but there are things I love about it So good We're seeing on a big screen

[01:58:22] Which is sad because I don't put a guest level Two weeks later I was like, you know, I want to see it again And then it was like, yeah, go on down to Times Square And know what the theater is because it's gone

[01:58:30] Yeah, I saw it like Times Square And it was like there's a 910 And that's the only time it's playing today But I think You look at the marketing that movie and they didn't sell the story at all The marketing was just like here are the images

[01:58:42] Because I think the images are so crazy I agree But I think like It's hard to sell a movie to people without any sense of like Yeah, the pitch in the trailers was like There's a city of a thousand planets And you're like, oh, and they're like

[01:58:56] And they gotta save it Oh, from what? I don't know anyway Go see it That kind of like James Franco In Spring Breakers Check out my shit, marketing campaign Is only going to appeal to a certain kind of nerd Not people who are like

[01:59:14] And I also think that In a lot of the way that Luke Bassan talked about it I think he felt like the comic had more cash Culturally than it does Especially overseas In Europe it does obviously I just read this interview With Luke Bassan where he was like

[01:59:32] I have no idea what he sounds like I think he's a very nice man But like the old people will see Don Kirk and the young people will see Valerian and I was like, what are you fucking smoking? No one's seeing Valerian That's not the play

[01:59:46] The play isn't we get to share the audience The kids love Dane Dahan I love Valerian We're going to talk about it one day I think we'll have a lot of fun We'll see. I think it'll be a testy episode I think he'll get very angry

[02:00:00] I'm going to get really mad at you Despicable Me 3 baby drivers Hanging around they had a great run The big sick which has had a very nice run This summer Wonder Woman Yeah, it's been an okay summer It's been an okay summer

[02:00:14] There's been a lot of nice original movies To Route 4 and then a lot of crap That you just kind of have to ignore I've seen a lot of films I liked I actually really liked War for the Planet of the Apes Which I didn't like

[02:00:26] We were on opposite poles in that one I do like that one a lot But it was, but that opened The week before Dunkirk It opened okay and plummeted Yeah, it really underperformed It actually did underperform Unfortunate as far as I'm concerned But it was really

[02:00:44] That also seemed like a bit of a mystery The week before Dunkirk Week before Dunkirk, a very bleak movie And Planet of the Apes is as well They're similarly kind of brutal You know, kind of a war movie It is a war of the Planet of the Apes

[02:00:58] I actually think that There's quite a bit The Venn diagram between the people Who are interested in War for the Planet of the Apes And people who are interested in Dunkirk Is, you know It overlaps quite a bit It's especially confusing because of how barren August is

[02:01:16] I know it's been weird There's like no movies coming out this week Apart from Tula Fever There's this weird thing that happened this summer That I think is largely positive Where A lot of those like Civic duty, I guess it's my obligation

[02:01:32] To go see its sequels and franchises that everyone Transformers Pirates of the Caribbean There were a lot of mistakes made Where these series finally started Bombing It's fine, it'll do okay here And really well over season Instead it was like it did terribly here And okay over season

[02:01:52] I like season movies, they haven't like the last three But we can make another one, these idiots will go see it And people start rejecting them Weird miscalculation on this too I wrote an article a couple of years ago That never ran Basically around this idea

[02:02:06] It's like what happens when the franchises start collapsing I mean because there is There's always the expectation That one or two might Fail, which is why Each studio has so many of them But they're really I got the sense this summer

[02:02:22] Even though I saw a number of them that were quite good I really got the sense this summer That it has begun They're starting to These structures are collapsing I feel like Cars 3 even fits Faded the furious, Faded Cars 3 Faded the furious didn't do as well

[02:02:38] Maybe if they hoped, it did fine But the last two did so well Kong Skull Island was a play That was sort of a half hearted franchise Play that didn't quite work Out of the box franchise Where they're like you guys want to see this Right?

[02:02:54] What could possibly go wrong Alright we gotta Wrap up but uh But I think that makes Nolan more and more powerful It keeps on boosting his kind of legacy That it's like he's this guy Who's still making original movies And it seemed in defiance of all these franchises

[02:03:10] That would work in spite of Audiences hating them They would still keep on going They would keep on making new movies And then they would just take the code And now that their franchise model Is starting to become less and less reliable Hopefully I don't know

[02:03:28] Hopefully it will empower studios To give more people Nolan type chances If not that big out of the gate Let them go out in a limb Because Blank-Trek movies don't exist As much as they used to It used to be if you made a big superhero movie Right

[02:03:46] But so often now it's like You do the big franchise movie So then you can get another franchise movie You do it so you can get a Star Wars You can really graduate to the next level of franchise Like you look at Justin Lin who like

[02:03:58] Revived Fast and Furious And it's like this guy has a meal ticket now He could make whatever he wanted And then for years it was like He's thinking about rebooting Terminator Like he was going to direct Genesis Then he ended up doing the third Star Trek

[02:04:12] And it's like It's more the track script And I want to make an original action movie For $80 million Hasn't he earned that position If he has a big enough star in the lead role But it doesn't really happen

[02:04:26] Nolan is kind of the one guy who was calling the bluff Of the studio and being like I made these Batman movies for you Let me make my movie about the cruelty Of time Over and over and over again So that's Chris Van Olin

[02:04:40] We might do a bonus episode but not next week Because scheduling has been crazy Really? Yes Everything coming out is good Hopefully next time you hear from me I will be more well rested No, you're alright You never deserve this So next week is our episode On

[02:05:00] The Devil Wears Prada It's a one off Special with my 19 year old sister Romali Newman It's a great movie of all time It was a great episode And then should we Debut the next bigelos next We've announced that Let's make it an official

[02:05:20] The week after that you will get The Loveless Is it good? I've never seen it I like it I like her I have my Hot take On Catherine Bigelow I love the Hurt Locker But I love K-19 I think that is a masterpiece

[02:05:42] That is quite a hot take K-19 That's a nuclear take Sorry I love RZero Dark 30 I saw Strange Days again recently And that movie It is hard to believe that that movie exists That's sort of the bedrock Of the blank check

[02:06:04] The argument for Catherine Bigelow is Strange Days That is a wacky movie It's got cool future drugs Strange Days though If you look at the big studio Flops of 1983 And 1984 Which are I believe Streets of Fire And It was a brain scan Oh Christopher Walken

[02:06:32] The movie Natalie Wood was working on when she died It's not brain scan That is an Edward Furlong movie That's why I was confused Brain storm Brain storm Strange Days is basically Those two movies Smashed together Sort of involved with Streets of Fire

[02:06:52] I think she was the one who suggested Willem Dafoe for the part And James Cameron Apparently had an office next to Walter Hill and Larry Gross I guess he was working on either Aliens or Terminator while they were working on it Probably the Terminator I would guess

[02:07:10] It's around this same time So I'm convinced that Embedded in the DNA of Strange Days Is a brain storm Bigelow recommended Willem Dafoe Alright We'll be talking about that in a couple weeks We'll be talking about all kinds of things Yes, we're going to keep talking

[02:07:30] I promise you that I'm going to try to get some sleep in And then we're going to keep talking Thank you all for listening Please remember to rate, review, subscribe Check out our reddit For some real nerdy shit Thanks too And for Gouda for her social media

[02:07:48] Jebo and Patrick Reynolds for artwork Lee Muck are here for the theme song Thank you so much for being on the show People can follow you on Twitter And they can read my reviews in the Village Voice That's right Good reviews I give your reviews two thumbs up

[02:08:06] Oh boy Griffin, you just embarrassed Everyone we bring on this show I give your reviews zero Warmy Apple So you don't have to worry about that I'm not going to pull a Neil Rosen on you See you guys next week Finish it up Griffin

[02:08:24] You're the man who finishes the episodes Yeah Yeah, I do And as always We're going to Dunkirk It's a week Just what I need I don't know whatever