Flesh+Blood

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to express All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check My father's half-dead, my bride has been captured, and you're babbling on about podcasts?

[00:00:26] What's the line? Seedlings? The other one that's good is Bless you Martin, your reward is in heaven I'd rather get paid sooner, sir, if you don't mind That's a good line, but it's not like a podcast I'd rather get podcasts soon Whatever, whatever

[00:00:47] I don't know, who gives a shit? Hi everybody, my name is Griffin Newman David Sims This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David Wait, what the fuck is the name of the miniseries? I'm gonna tell you

[00:00:58] We don't know, guys, I don't know what it is He's gonna tell me But you're gonna head of everything Because this is a podcast about filmography I know, I just realized, I'm sorry, I panicked Directors who experienced massive success early on

[00:01:13] Are in a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want Sometimes their check's clear And then you just go about your day I'll have a small coffee, please Honey, how was your day, kids? Good day at school

[00:01:28] Go to sleep, wake up the next morning Check your app, oh no, check is still clear But sometimes they bounce, baby Your life's in chaos Excuse me, could I have a cup of coffee? Here's your fucking coffee Honey, how was your day today? Fuck you

[00:01:45] Kids, how was school? Fuck you, dad Kick him in the nards I'm sorry, Tony Cirico is one of the kids? Yes Polly Walnuts himself? This is a film I'm pitching where Tony Cirico does the clumps And plays every member of the family Oh boy And the coffee man

[00:02:02] You know how many times Tony Cirico was arrested for organized crime activity? No 28 I worked with makeup people who worked on The Sopranos Who were a great shout out to Stephen Kimbra Yeah And they worked for the whole round of those shows

[00:02:15] And they were telling me that a recurring issue was that David Chase was like so into like getting these real guys who had the real history Of course, no I mean that's part of the success isn't it? Yeah

[00:02:23] Right and then they constantly had like actors who couldn't come to set because there were arrest warrants out for them And there was one guy in particular, I don't remember who he was I don't think it was a big part

[00:02:34] But he like showed up on set and was like okay I'm ready for work and they're like you gotta get the fuck out of here Like it's the only show in history where the production was telling actors not to show up

[00:02:45] But I learned my lines and it's like no you're fucking want it I learned my lines Oh that was the liney word Hey Oh It says a podcast about The Sopranos I'd love to do a podcast about The Sopranos

[00:02:59] Do you know I have I think only seen two episodes? That's not Yeah It's the best TV show That's what I'm told I think it's like Citizen Kane where we have to sort of just stop

[00:03:11] Like being like but what is it this it's like now it's like Sopranos that you know that was the show that did it Can I just point out we're gonna be like coming off of like a run of like six weeks almost two months with no new miniseries

[00:03:23] Because we had this quarter in the fall where all our sort of running series Spielberg's there Spielberg says that was We had another sibling Justice League We had another DC Universe Right right Avatar Land I went to Avatar Land

[00:03:35] So people have been like chomping at the bit right Right For a new miniseries and now we're talking about The Sopranos We're talking about The Sopranos for five minutes Yeah well it's on HBO now This is Let me swing Crack It's the sound of a new miniseries

[00:03:48] Soaring off and it's out of here That's how baseball commentators speak right Soaring off Snap crack and it's soaring off into out of here What's the name of the miniseries Jesus Christ It's my fault people I'm sorry I'm sorry

[00:04:01] We just haven't seen each other a little bit and it's exciting but yeah Yes this is one I've been dying to do Since our very early days I feel like this is one of the guys we always talked about Yeah And it just felt like it's fucking time

[00:04:11] Let's do it This feels like a good zag you know Sure Yeah we were like this is the moment Well The moment we decided was different than the moment Correct When we started recording which is also different than the moment when you will be hearing this episode

[00:04:27] Correct correct correct Moments slipping between our fingers Yes But we're covering one of my favorite filmmakers of all time Paul Verhoeven That's right And a miniseries that I have just decided Because we're recording this so far in advance That I wasn't going to do the vote

[00:04:46] I wasn't going to ruin it and I went through the titles and I only think there's one that really really works Podshipcasters Sure There's really nothing that works that's fine I think it's that or Podcast Hoven Yeah Podshipcasters It's good this miniseries is called Podshipcasters Great

[00:05:05] Now this is for the second time ever A conditional miniseries Get excited We're putting ellipses around this baby Yeah Because we like people to listen to the show And have seen the movies and be able to watch the movies easily

[00:05:22] And more and more people have been asking us about certain directors who just have unwieldy Filmographies where we just can't do it And so I think you're going to see us more and more Oscillating between directors with manageable filmographies You know 10 is kind of the ideal number right?

[00:05:36] 10 to 12 We have a couple people coming up who have made fewer films We're going to have a couple nice little short miniseries How? Yeah, you know just getting out And it's often out of here Yep boxing

[00:05:52] But I think more and more you're going to see us when there is a good sort of chunk Of a career that has a sort of you know A feeling to it, a bubble around it A self-contained period Yes, we're doing his English language movies Hollywood films

[00:06:12] So we're going from 1985 to 2000 That's where the check is blank The check is blank here Before that he's making Dutch movies Those Dutch movies are very hard to see And funded by the government So is that a blank check? I don't know Kind of but like with conditions

[00:06:34] I today pulled the trigger And bought the long out of print Paul Verhoeven box at released by Anchor Bay in like 1999 of all the Dutch films Oh cool It goes for way too much money How much do you spend on this? I spent 150 That's a lot of money

[00:06:51] The golden price on Amazon is $400 So this is business is business Turkish delight Soldier of Orange What's it called? The Fifth Man Spedders The Fourth Man I always get the number wrong And something called Keechie Depple I don't know Yeah That's what's in there

[00:07:11] So I bought that box at I will be watching those movies Over the course of recording this miniseries So I may throw in hot takes at some point I'm not going to have like a little Fucking segment sidebar

[00:07:21] But I'm saying I just want to be able to contrast I'm not going to talk about it But yeah we can't We look I've seen Turkish delight And I saw Spedders a long time ago I've seen some of them I haven't seen any of them

[00:07:32] But we couldn't do a fucking Spedders episode Lot of dick in that movie Oh I'm excited then Soft Dutch dick My favorite kind But yes A the check is blank at this period of time And B we can't do five consecutive episodes on movies

[00:07:51] Guys we're trying to make money here It's harder to watch than half the Bigelow films Which were Look I mean thank you for listening to those episodes We got a lot of listeners who Still followed along even though the movies were impossible to see

[00:08:04] And hopefully they become more readily available But this movie is on Amazon Prime If you want to watch it And Hulu Yes It's kind of much like when we covered The Lost World Jurassic Park It's sort of a tweener

[00:08:19] It's kind of the bridge film between the two phases Because he started out his first handful of films And his work in TV All was funded by the Dutch government Right? Pretty much you know I mean it's I'm sure there was some private fun

[00:08:34] But you know it's like that's European filmmaking In the 70s Yes There's an infrastructure to provide Like for national art And that also gives them some say And also well he made Turkish delight Which was this genuine box office smash It like cost a few hundred thousand

[00:08:52] Kroner or whatever the fuck Not to just diss a dead currency And it made millions and millions more You know like it made ten times its budget It was like big Dutch smash Which is funny because it's like a super sexually explicit Romance

[00:09:06] But it was kind of like right place, right time It tapped into a sexual revolution Right time, anytime Yeah no yeah sure for sure And these governments you know Even these countries where the Government has more active role in the funding And the distribution of the arts

[00:09:25] They like making money if something's a hit I mean I remember because Britain has cut back On its national funding because of the Conservative government among other things But there was also yeah it's like when some movie How do you know about that?

[00:09:37] Put in the big Ben Shimes Oh I plan on it Big Ben over here The big Ben Shimes? The producer Ben Shimes? No no The benduser Shimes? The producer Ben Shimes? The producer Ben Shimes? Let's see what's on Twitter The Mr. Positive Shimes? The Haas Shimes?

[00:09:51] The Mr. Positive Shimes? The birthday Benny Shimes? The dirt bike Benny Shimes? The fuck master Shimes? For who the Ben tolls? That's my noise for a great bend bit You got more? What are you doing? What are you happening with? Are you frozen in time?

[00:10:11] The meat lover Shimes? The fart detective Shimes? The peeper Shimes? Are you finding film critic Shimes? Can I ask you a question? Are they Professor Chris Biefstrand? No Okay No, sorry Those Shimes have graduated to certain tolls over the course of different miniseries That is true Such as

[00:10:31] Well Kylo Ben Shimes? The producer Ben Kenobi Shimes? Uh huh Ben I Trouble Enshimes? Right Say Benny Thing Shimes? Yeah Ben Sate Shimes? Yeah Ailey Ben's With The Dollar Signed Shimes? Right We're in an episode like six weeks from forgetting them Alright anyway Fuckin' we're done with that

[00:10:49] What were we even talking about? We're talking about the British funding of the film industry We are rusty That's alright Cranky Cranky Yeah, no one's listening to this one anyway right? I guess something fell Everyone's listening to this one Everyone

[00:11:05] This is his least watched movie of the movies we're going to cover Sure This is only movie that wasn't a huge financial success Or showgirls Which was in the end a huge financial success But that's how our first episodes usually go Yeah Except for our next miniseries

[00:11:20] Hint hint hint Oh though that movie was a bomb His first movie That's not true Oh I mean not him, not him, sorry It's the next one whose first movie was a bomb Soundboard Sims over here Hint it Hint it

[00:11:33] You remember it's that old Tignatara bit, the clown horn You know, it's good It's good It's really easy to do So The Dutch government is funding his movies Well no, here no no no let's go back Okay What are we? What kind of sort of context? Thank you

[00:11:51] Poverhoeven So often when my girlfriend is struggling to sleep Humble wreck Yes she will be like Like read some boring shit to me so I'll fall asleep Really? Yes this is a common dynamic for us Because I love to read call up say like Europa

[00:12:07] On Wikipedia the planet you're moon Europa Okay he does protest too much And just read facts They don't fuck over here Europa signalling My voice will send her straight to sleep Like which I don't know if that's really a compliment or not So

[00:12:22] It sounds like you hate Europa Uh Really no I think about it Last night Why did I bring it Probably in the Wikipedia Yeah, jeez You don't know that shit off the back of your hand Damn I got a Europa tattoo On the back of your hand? Yeah

[00:12:35] This Europa fuck boy over here So I actually From the last nerd home Ben is holding up the back of his hand And I can verify I swear to God he's got a Europa tattoo on the back of it Fake news Alright Not true Oh alright so Poverhoeven

[00:12:50] So I read his Wikipedia page yesterday Mmm Allowed That's more like a bedtime nightmare Exactly Cause I knew enough Cause I remember reading Yes An interview with him in Empire magazine When I was a wee boy When Hollow Man was coming out His last Hollywood movie Yes

[00:13:08] In which he talked a lot about how he grew up In Holland during Nazi occupation Okay great cause I have a similar anecdote I want to tell Yeah And how much he thinks that affected his view of Violence and the evil that people do I saw him

[00:13:25] Do a Q&A after screening a Robocop Oh sure About a year ago They did a full Verhoeven It was called Total Verhoeven He's an old man these days At Lincoln Center Yeah He's almost 80 Dude still fucking got his fastball Sure sure

[00:13:39] It's up and it's off and out of here And he does sound like a gold member right? He does Yes okay cause we're gonna do a lot of gold member on this Right He asked the audience if they want to blint some ahuka Smoking a pancake But

[00:13:54] There were two quotes he said Just about the origins of his career And his artistic sensibility I thought were very tell One of them was a more specific version of that Where someone asked him about the level of violence and sexuality in his films Sure

[00:14:07] Which let's just say these are These movies are They're not for everybody They're not for everybody There's one way to put it I was gonna say slippery but they're tricky movies They're challenging and they're aggressive at times He's dealing with loaded guns all the time Sure Right? Yeah

[00:14:25] But I think it's more like he likes to fire guns Yes At you He's dealing with very loaded heavy subjects And he always feature a lot of sexual abuse Yes A lot of extreme violence Right He's a lot of depravity of human

[00:14:40] Yeah he's kind of all in a lot of ways Than the answer to what Hollywood was doing in the 80s And you know I think we talked about it a little bit When we were talking about Kingsman a way back

[00:14:49] We're talking about right these people who are like I'm showing you what you do Just in a much less sanitized way That's Verhoeven's kind of whole thing That he turned subtext into text Sure right He underlines things But should be noted that over the course of this series

[00:15:05] In discussing these films We're going to discuss a lot of things that are uncomfortable That might be Right so just be aware I guess In general of the triggers you may experience That are just requisite with Discussing any Paul Verhoeven plot synopsis Yeah

[00:15:24] But he said the two things that kind of really formed him Were when he was a very young boy He saw a Heronius Bosch painting Heronius Bosch, isn't it? Jesus Christ, okay Wow got real tense in here It's cold like Europa David Chili

[00:15:42] What's the surface of Europa is cold I know Alright For the listener at home David's reading that off of his phone He doesn't even know that He said he saw this painting that was like a big war tableau Right And you know this bloody awful You know Yes

[00:16:02] Rape and murder and all this sort of The battle between heaven and hell going on And the background of the painting there was A man leaning against a shed taking a shit I've heard this story too I told you this

[00:16:18] And Paul Verhoeven said these are the kind of films I want to make These are the arts I want to make Oh boy But Bosch is like you look at those paintings And they kind of are the like classical art version Of what Verhoeven is doing in cinema

[00:16:32] The sort of maximalist expressionistic That's why he works in Hollywood Because he's like I'll use your money Right Oh yeah Like I want to make as big wide screen of movie as I can And you kind of want to turn it back on Without sacrificing Right

[00:16:46] But sort of address the ills Of humanity And then the other thing is he said You know growing up He would walk down the street And there would just be dead people lying there Dead people Bombs flying in the background Bombs going off

[00:16:58] His parents almost died from a bomb attack He lived in the Hague as a young man A young boy We're talking when he was like five Next to a German military headquarters That was full of rockets So the Allies were always trying to bomb that

[00:17:12] So they were like He lived like near more bombing Yes Sorry More bombing than even before But he said that that kind of desensitized him Yes, he refers to his childhood as like Running around gleefully being like Because he was a little kid Like having an adventure

[00:17:29] But he just understood from a very, very young age The full extent of Of the sort of evils And pain and suffering of humanity That's what he thinks That's what he was sort of saying Was that he was seeing the wars happening around him

[00:17:44] No, no, you said the Bosch in the war Right I'm giving you Connoisseur context Context Grew up in the Hague Okay Grew up during the war Studied at Light End University Okay In 1955 Study film? No, double major in math and physics Interesting

[00:18:01] And he was like maybe going to be An engineer or something And instead he goes to the Netherlands Film Academy And starts making movies In their early 60s Interesting So there's some, you know, whatever He also, and this movie deals with it a lot

[00:18:15] Is very interesting in theology Sure And it's sort of like one of the greatest Living experts on Jesus Christ Loves Jesus But he's like obsessed with Jesus I mean, he's interested in Jesus As a man and knows pretty much as much as anyone alive

[00:18:29] Like he's threatening to make a Jesus movie Right I remember a bunch of years ago He did a screening at IFC Where he screened He had his Jesus book coming out He released a book about Jesus He wrote a full book A nonfiction book about Jesus

[00:18:44] And his findings About Jesus as a man And what he represented in all of that Jesus of Nazareth That's like the most romanticized figure What is Verhoeven saying about him? He's saying he's like a politician And he is like a rebel And he's, you know, gone

[00:18:59] What he's interested in Is stripping Jesus from the mythology And just dealing with who he was As a person existing in time With other people Terrorists is what he claims Is essentially the way Jesus behaved According to a historical record

[00:19:11] Is what we would think of as a terrorist Even just things that like Jesus was the most interesting Human being, whoever existed Like that's his hot take But he screened Life of Brian And then did this whole like Academic talk afterwards Which is apparently amazing Yeah

[00:19:25] And he's never made his Jesus film And I kind of feel like if he made his Jesus film It would sort of be disappointing Right Like it's kind of interesting to see How he peppers it into all his other films Like this movie Yes, and Robocop

[00:19:36] Which is American Jesus But we'll get to that next week Also Superman Returns Just want to put that out there Okay What? Okay Anyway Netherlands Film Academy Yes, well anyway The surface temperature on Europa Is minus 260 degrees higher You literally reading off the computer

[00:19:55] I was reading that off the computer I also want to say That I read off the computer I don't know if you guys ever do this But sometimes I go onto iTunes And I go to like our podcast page And I sort by popularity

[00:20:08] Because I'm curious to see like At any given moment what the five most popular episodes are And our five least popular episodes are Okay Because like the first phantom episode Is always in our top five Which is kind of cool

[00:20:18] That people are like always going back to the beginning Right What a terrible episode though One of our worst One of the worst One of the worst if not the object worst We spent like 10 minutes at the start being like So we're not gonna talk about

[00:20:29] The original movies So few we're gonna do Here's what we're gonna do It's gonna be like a bit, okay? Yeah Okay Are you guys ready for a bit? Okay And now we're in No Bits podcast No Bits, CrossMats Yeah But I always look at the top five

[00:20:44] And the bottom five to see like Aside from the most recent episodes Which ones like really sink or swim I think pretty consistently Our episode on the two Cameron documentaries Is our number one least listen to episode ever And that's where the Europa bit comes from

[00:20:59] And we are committing so hard to repeating a bit That just in terms of mathematics Hey man right now it's doing great The smallest Is it doing well right now? It's like the sixth least popular Least popular is denim invasion Right I'm sorry

[00:21:12] Denim invasion is the only one Bound is down there Which is too bad good movie That sounds good movie Praying with Angers down there Yeah The Revenge of the Sith live episode That one's down there That's just a lot of episodes The loveless

[00:21:23] You know a lot of the obvious ones I think denim invasion is actually Always our lowest That's a I mean Don't listen to that episode Deep cut No it's not it's listen to it That's great George Lucas is on it That's great The real George Lucas

[00:21:35] I got this tattoo it's cool It's really good I don't get the Euro potential Yeah but then he's got on the other hand He's got a tattoo of a pair of cap jeans Right now our Minority Report episode With Joe Roe is high up there

[00:21:51] Well let's not just fucking talk about Which episodes of ours are doing well We've got 362 reviews Damn Maybe we'll read a review Maybe we'll read a review Old time's sake Yeah okay Remember when we used to like Read reviews on the show

[00:22:03] Yeah remember when we were still a podcast What are we now I don't know chaos Okay chaos incarnate Alright so yeah he starts making the movies He marries a nice lady Who he's been married to his whole life Martin maybe she's a mean lady What do I know

[00:22:16] Martin tour Who he's been married to A lady of indiscriminate disposition Yeah he's been married to her for 50 years Hey In 2017 Like this year was their 50th anniversary Pretty incredible Pretty impressive He had two kids with her Two daughters Claudia and Helen Must be like 45

[00:22:35] Yeah and totally not warped at all And they're looking at Dutch people Hey hey hey They're not warped They're twisted Twisted Alright he was in the Dutch Navy For a couple years And he made a documentary about the Dutch Navy Which won an award for military films

[00:22:56] And then he makes Oh a Millie Yeah Millie Bobby Brown He makes businesses business Which is some tiny little movie that I've never seen I assume it's in your little box set It is I believe that It's some weird movie about prostitutes

[00:23:12] I believe that film is about sex workers I know nothing about it Those early Verhoeven movies They're tricky because they all have multiple titles Yeah yeah yeah sure I think business and business also has a different title That's like a proper first name

[00:23:27] But I never know if I'm confusing them I think it might be confusing But anyway it doesn't matter It's like 5 films that have 10 titles between them In the A73 he makes Turkish Delight Which stars a young Rutger Hauer Who is his constant collaborator in the Dutch movies

[00:23:41] And not since Which I want to talk about We'll get to that though Yeah we can get to that later So Turkish Delight which is this Like passionate romance About young liberal kind of radical kids in love Very sexually explicit huge hit Gets an Oscar nomination

[00:23:57] It's like a sexual revolution film And he makes this movie called KT-Tipel Which I think is a period piece Starring the same pair Rutger Hauer and the actress Is called Malik van der Ven And then he makes Soldier of Orange Which is super violent

[00:24:13] It's a movie about the Dutch resistance to the Nazis Starring Rutger Hauer And Jeroen Krabe Who's also somebody who works with a lot They're five straight Rutger movies right? That gets like a Golden Globe nomination And like a Lafka award I think you know

[00:24:28] Like he's getting attention in America For all these movies Then he makes Spedders Which is the movie that even the Dutch government Was like Paul you have gone too far He has a lot of explicit gay sex Along with a lot of explicit straight sex

[00:24:41] It's kind of his loveless Because it's about like aimless biker people I have seen that movie That movie is I googled like Spedders streaming And I was directed to Pornhub Cool That movie is in full available on Pornhub If you just want to watch it on Pornhub

[00:25:00] Just that was what you know A hot tip Yeah I mean he Pornhub was like let's not even clip it Just put it on People will have fun with it The whole movie Desensitized the stuff You know growing up in extreme circumstances He also always says he's like

[00:25:16] People say my violence and my sex is explicit It's not true I'm the only one who shows section violence The way it actually is No one has ever had sex the way people have sex In a Paul Verhoeven movie

[00:25:28] But I also think there is something to the fact That he gets to like these impressionistic levels Of like violence doesn't look in real life The way it does in Verhoeven movies But violence feels the way Paul Verhoeven violence looks In terms of how upsetting it is

[00:25:43] It's very... I was wrong I'm sorry He also made the fourth man That was his last Dutch movie You know what I'm saying Like he makes this very visceral When he has violent scenes When he has sexual scenes They're very visceral And they're very protracted Often

[00:25:58] Right and I think he's getting to something greater That I don't know if it's a conscious thing Of like I need to heighten it So that it connects to people Or if in his mind that's how he perceives reality Which by his own admission

[00:26:08] That's kind of what it is I think it's a little bit of that But isn't that true of a lot of directors Where they have a unique perspective on something And that's what makes them special But also super weird Yep And this guy is super weird He's weird

[00:26:22] Yeah So after... He essentially is now at this point In the mid-80s Having trouble getting the Dutch government To subsidize his movies Because they are so controversial And he said he was getting really frustrated with that And feeling more and more pressure for them

[00:26:36] In terms of what they wanted him to do And so this movie is The Bridge Where he goes like Can I get money from out other places? Can I start to piece it together? Or Ryan Pictures But this isn't fully like a Hollywood movie

[00:26:47] No, but they gave him most of the money They gave him most of the money I think he has a lot of Italian money These 80s movies always There's a lot like Piranha 2 Where it's like some Italian guy Who is like, yeah

[00:26:59] My wife's got to be in it though Or whatever, you know But this movie is a Dutch-American Italian co-production Sure With money pieced together They had a Ryan... I'm seeing Spanish Not Italian Oh, maybe I'm getting that wrong I think that's it Okay American Dutch Spanish film

[00:27:14] Sounds like there was some Italian in there Look, don't, don't Let's not stereotype When a Ryan comes aboard though Yes He writes a movie Yeah I think he wrote it with a guy called Gerard Soteman And he had done a TV series

[00:27:28] Who had written a lot of movies with him And wrote black books with him much later He did a TV series with Riker Howard That was a medieval show Yes, he did So they had worked in this That was where he discovered him Patina, if you will Flores

[00:27:40] And he said that this was kind of like Some ideas they had left over from the show Right This was essentially where they're like Exactly Where they're like, let's not varnish Right Life in the 15th century or whatever Which is where I think this movie shares a similarity

[00:27:56] With the Loveless Uh-huh Where it's like, let's take this sort of like Set of aesthetics and this sort of culture And this like film genre That has become really like Romantic And engage with how gross this really was Because from the opening of this movie

[00:28:10] You're like, this is fucking Disgusting Yeah In every sense of that word But yeah, he puts it together Orion has the most money So they are able to Sort of Throw down the most creative control in notes But he's getting it from all sides on this movie

[00:28:29] I mean, everyone's coming to him saying Can you make it a little more like this A little less than this And he speaks to this movie with great frustration Yes, he doesn't like this movie He said he did not want the Jennifer Jason Lee character

[00:28:37] In it at all Orion demanded there be a female character He just Which is the first of many examples Yes That we will cover in which a Hollywood studio Comes to Paul Verhoeven and says Can you do this for us? And he's like, yes

[00:28:51] Yes, I think I have an idea And they should have asked more questions Right Do you want to make an invisible man movie? Hmm, yes Yes, give me the money first Yes, you have the money The budget right here, you know

[00:29:05] No, I got the money, it's cool later And so But it's crazy to me Originally this movie was going to be about these two men Who just wanted to be Who were kind of like at war with each other You know, the Rucker Hauer as the Raider Yes

[00:29:22] You know, the sort of villager Martin And Jack Thompson as Harckwood Who's the No, Harckwood is the other guy Harckwood is his like This is what I'm getting at Oh right That was going to be the conflict Yes And then they demand a love interest Yeah

[00:29:40] So he decides to turn Steven, this sort of good boy Into like the part of like a love triangle A Pulver, Hoven love triangle though Which I'll say I think if the Jennifer Jason Lee character was not in this movie This movie would be incredibly boring

[00:29:54] I think it was the film that he Thought he wanted to make That was just a rivalry between Two men Yeah I think aside from the sort of aesthetics And how he was depicting this world It would be painfully generic Well he says

[00:30:09] Let me find the exact quote In retrospect we should have stuck with Harckwood and Martin The failure of flesh and blood was a lesson to me Never compromised the main storyline of a script Says the man who made show girls So But that's the thing

[00:30:22] Like Love and Her Hate It All the movies from here on out I think you look at them and you go Yep, every single frame of this movie Is what Paul Verhoeven wanted Sure We'll talk about show girls But I think those movies truly do

[00:30:33] Like fit into that Yeah I think this is the one where It's very much a Paul Verhoeven movie I wasn't sure if this was going to feel like A kind of two where it's like a guy testing it out

[00:30:42] Before he figures out how to gain control on Hollywood It's through and through Like of a piece with his filmography I don't know if this movie would be of any interest If you were watching it in a bubble Without any sense of who this guy was

[00:30:53] And what he'd go on to do in his films I think it would be of some interest It's well made It's well made but it's also It's unusual But viewing it like as part of his filmography It's fascinating It is He wanted to make a movie that was

[00:31:05] Quote stinking Yeah, a mission accomplished, Paulie He wanted to depict how gross Like literally gross Yeah, disgusting Could be, one might say A medieval times were Yeah Not medieval times of restaurant Although I heard that's his next film Yes, medieval times

[00:31:20] He's doing a sordid expose of medieval times Um He also wanted Rucker Hauer's character To be very morally ambiguous and villainous And Rucker Hauer apparently Who's coming off of making Blade Runner Yes Is like, I want to play a hero So that's weird

[00:31:37] So I want to talk about this for a little bit So I think that might be informing Rucker Hauer's performance in this movie I think so too Yeah But I want to talk about this for a little bit Because I think there are a couple

[00:31:45] Interesting phenomenons that are represented by That, okay? One is this thing I always Okay, okay, okay, okay Sorry Probably still present right now I don't know Hopefully not This thing I always find fascinating David is tickling Ben Ben is not amused Ben's eyes are closed He is awake

[00:32:08] But he doesn't want to look at us He is sitting at the board With his hands on his chest Picking his nails Now his hand is rubbing He has to listen to us like talk for an hour or two Before we even fucking start a recording

[00:32:21] Alright, keep going This thing that I find interesting Which is when like a foreign auteur Who is starting to gain Some reputation, some renown Maybe some foreign language nominations Maybe some good critical notices And their leading man Or leading lady Both carry over to Hollywood You know? Yeah

[00:32:51] I think Howard and Verhoeven both Those movies were so big for both of them Yeah, Rucker and Verhoeven they were like a pair But very different Hollywood careers Sure, but I think in a similar way To like Vaughn Trier and Skarsgard

[00:33:04] I think in a similar way perhaps to Fuck, there was another example Well Vaughn Trier's never made a Hollywood movie though Nor will he ever make a Hollywood movie But sort of got onto the bigger stage And what often happens is

[00:33:16] The filmmaker continues making their own weird esoteric movies And this star who they used to work with all the time Now becomes like a more commercial Hollywood person Alma Dovar and Fanderis I'm not saying they necessarily fall into the Hollywood system But that they both get big

[00:33:32] I always find that very fascinating When it's an actor and director who work together that much But often what happens is When they both get big They never work together ever again Right? I guess so, do you know why they didn't work together again? Apparently because they

[00:33:45] They fought on this movie Howard was so pissed off That Verhoeven wouldn't let him be Like a fucking matinee idol hero Because he was afraid of being typecast After Blade Runner as a foreign baddie Well right, when you are a I mean he's Dutch but you know

[00:34:01] Germanic villain, a teutonic looking guy Who's played a villain or two You're worried that I'm going to be a villain for Hollywood That's it But also most foreign actors who become big in the states Do so playing villains

[00:34:13] It's a tradition that goes back to like fucking Peter Lorre You know? Yeah Like I think that's a thing That's the joke when like some great foreign actor Gets on it for an Oscar and that's like great Now he's just gonna play fucking Bond villains You know?

[00:34:25] Yeah, well I mean Christopher Right Howard was very afraid of that Wanted to fight that So he fought on the movie Right, then he goes on to make like the fucking hitcher and shit You know? Well this is the thing Howard's career is nothing

[00:34:37] I mean he only makes like the hitcher and ladyhawk And then it's like Right He's a nobody I mean not a nobody but he is But he mostly is I know A Hollywood villain I just think it's interesting Not to like fucking poke a A bee's nest here

[00:34:52] You know? A hornet's nest if you will A bee hive What are you talking about? But in this industry where like people are fucking morally reprehensible But you continue working with them There were like all these like artistic partnership splits That happened just based off of Ego

[00:35:08] Where it's like Apparently the reason that like Murray and Remus Didn't talk for like fucking 15 years Is that Murray was like I want Groundhog Day to be more dramatic We've talked about this And Remus was like I want to be more comedic

[00:35:20] And then they didn't talk for a decade We've talked about this on the podcast Right, that the movie was perfect And I think there was a similar thing I think the other thing that happened there was that Remus is a really nice guy

[00:35:28] Or was a really nice guy Bill Murray is like awful person Very difficult Yes But like Howard and Verhoeven They just had this disagreement, you know Maybe Whereas like Kinski and fucking Herzog Were able to like bottle that tension Yeah They're an extreme example Yes I mean yeah

[00:35:45] Because Kinski like tried to murder her drug Like go all the time But the fact that Howard like still won't fucking work With Verhoeven because it's like Well he didn't let me be a hero Well do you think that's going on now? I don't know

[00:35:55] I mean Rucker Howard is having a bit of a second life right now I feel like Uh-huh Maybe not though He's an excellent actor He's a fantastic actor Yeah I love him in this I love him in the other Verhoeven movies I've seen

[00:36:08] I love him in Blade Runner so much I think that's like An all time great performance That's like about his greatest performance of all time Earl and Babin began He's so good in Earl and Babin again Where he did

[00:36:19] He wrote a memo but then doesn't get the later memo Yes And he did his due diligence He asked people if they got the memo Anyway But it's like It's not like I'm going to tell you Like I'm looking at his recent where I'm like

[00:36:31] Oh yeah he's great in the Scorpion King 4 Quest for Power Okay no he is good in that Stop being a dick He's good in that Uh Lou Ferrignos in that movie Yeah Lou Ferrignos in all the Scorpion

[00:36:42] You know I feel like some of these actors might not be Egyptian though Barry Bostwick Michael Bean M. M. at Walsh This is the craziest cast list I've ever seen Barry Bostwick is the waspiest actor of all time Barry Bostwick is in the Scorpion King 4

[00:36:59] Is the king of Egypt or a king There seem to be two kings Because Rucker Howard's also playing a king Do you think he was like I have to be a king And they were like No one's going to check anyway Yeah you're king There's two kings

[00:37:11] And it's like the first Scorpion King is like Okay they didn't cast Egyptian actors There's three kings Because there's the Scorpion King I forgot about him He's the fucking king Right But the Scorpion King Okay Samoan actor right Kelly who is the female lead She's Hawaiian

[00:37:25] Michael Clark Duncan is African American Like at least you're not casting white people By the time you get to Scorpion King 4 And it's like the mayor from Spin City is playing the pharaoh To be fair I don't think he plays the Scorpion No but what does he play

[00:37:37] What does he play The tarantula king What if they were like really running low with them The ladybug king By the way our next mini series Is the Scorpion King franchise He's playing King Yannick Yeah you got Scorpion King 3 Which has Billy Zayn and Ron Perlman

[00:37:55] You want to know an anecdote I love I don't know if it's two or three Is one of them called Rise to Power That is number two is called Rise of a Warrior Okay that's the one I'm thinking of Which has

[00:38:05] Boy I think it has Kurt Angle in it The wrestler Batista isn't one of them too Is he I think Rise of a Warrior Carries a title that no other film carries No it's Randy Couture Okay I believe Batista isn't one of them Uh huh

[00:38:20] Yes he's in three Thank you Battle for Redemption Thank you And that film of course was directed by Roland Jaffe Scorpion King 2 Rise of a Warrior I believe is the only film in history That is A prequel To a spin off Of a sequel Of a remake

[00:38:43] Let me track that one more time So you're saying The Scorpion 2 is a prequel to Scorpion King 1 Right it's a prequel Documenting the Rise of the Scorpion King Seen in the first Scorpion King Which is a spin off of The Mummy Returns

[00:38:59] Which is a sequel to The Mummy Which is a remake of The Mummy But let's be clear The Scorpion King is a prequel to The Mummy Returns And The Mummy I guess Cause it's set in Ancient Egypt Okay so pick your poison

[00:39:09] You can either say it's a prequel to a prequel Right But it's a sidequel kind of It's a prequel to a spin off is fine That was then sequelized Right Right so I guess that's more interesting A Scorpion King 3 is a sequel

[00:39:25] To a prequel to a spin off To a sequel To a remake Boy So this is our episode about flesh and blood It's a 1985 movie that was made with weird money And was barely released It cost 6.5 million dollars Yeah It was supposedly released on August 30th, 1985

[00:39:49] In New York and Los Angeles Box Office Mojo has no data of it making any money But I mean it did get a release It must have just been so small It was never released wide And very quickly it was put on HBO

[00:40:01] Which at the time was tied to Orion in some way So like movies would get to HBO faster I think it built a bit of a reputation there This became like a somewhat well known cult movie Like you imagine if you were 12 years old

[00:40:13] You would get to make him on HBO At like 10 o'clock at night You would be fucking fascinated You'd be like what the fuck is this Which is how a lot of these movies built reputations And also it has this poster that looks like

[00:40:25] The poster for Willow or Legend or whatever Exactly Where it's like this sort of nice painted poster And that's also what I love about now That we'll finally start talking about the movie At minute 565 But the opening credits of this film This movie has this amazing

[00:40:41] Basil Poliador score It does, great score And the score sounds like it could fit on fucking Robin Hood Prince of Thieves Like it's a conventionally heroic uplifting Like medieval swords epic score That's like thrilling And then it goes straight from those credits To like fucking depravity

[00:41:01] Like now we're in a Bosch painting Well yeah cause it's just like they're on like some fucking hill Outside of a castle It looks like it smells like a walled tail It's a poopy movie, let's be clear Everyone is pooping just taking a poop Right All the time

[00:41:15] Like you said it's the Bosch guy The movie that this is aesthetically most similar to Weirdly is Monty Python the Holy Grail Yes Also because it has that kind of look where like It's raining And they went to some like historic place Right

[00:41:29] And then they were just like let's just throw sand around But Terry Gilliam always talks about how he wanted Holy Grail to be the only comedy that looked like a Pasolini movie Like he wanted it to be like disgusting And look like it smelled bad

[00:41:41] And it also was like a cheap movie So it has that like grimy like low stock And it's like yeah it just looks like it was miserable to film But the movie starts it's like people shitting themselves And like fucking stabbing each other

[00:41:52] And then a pregnant prostitute comes out Serving beer to them And it's like the most maximalist Yeah she's nine months pregnant too It's the most maximalist first twenty seconds of a film I have ever seen But it's also done in this very like

[00:42:06] Elegant like swooping like tracking shot Like you compare this to the opening of Lincoln Which is like here are these men in the mud You see them stomping each other and these quick cuts And it's very charming Look how we're only doing movies to movies

[00:42:17] We have covered on this book Hey we're trying to create a VCU This movie's a lot like the Loveless and Lincoln VCU, Blank Check Universe Oh wow okay Susan Tyrell plays The woman serving the beer The nine months pregnant serving the beer An amazing character actress

[00:42:36] She's got a lot of screen time in this movie Yes have you ever seen Fat City? No no She was Oscar nomination for Fat City John Huston's last film I believe No because didn't he make Annie? Was that oh you're right You're right that was out

[00:42:50] And he made the dead So it wasn't his last film I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about No he made many more movies He made one two three four five six seven eight Eleven more movies Okay so I am a piece of shit

[00:43:03] But yeah he did he made Annie He made Uncle the Volcano He made Prisley's Honor He made the Dead You know yeah he made some big movies Fat City is really interesting Because he was a very classical old Hollywood guy

[00:43:12] And this was him making a new Hollywood movie And Susan Tyrell is fucking amazing In it playing like the modern day version Of this character Like a bar fly And had no idea she was in this Is awesome But from the get go

[00:43:27] You're seeing these people who are just like People are dying People are succeeding And everyone's just having like a fucking fun time Like it's rolling off their back Like it's just like this is the awful time we live in And if you can survive

[00:43:40] Like you know history is written by the victors Yeah a little bit right exactly What's happening in the opening scene This is also a very class obsessed movie What's happening in the opening scene Is that a bunch of Raiders I mean what are they They're mercenaries Marauders, mercenaries

[00:43:58] Led by Rucker Hauer and Including Bruno Kirby His name came up I was like you're kidding me He's in the movie Jumped straight out of a time machine You just... Anyway they are laying siege to a castle That some lord, what's the lord's name Arnold Feeney

[00:44:16] This guy's sloth Yeah is like I left and they occupied my city Go take it and then you can like have 24 hours Just pillaging the city And before I kick you out The terms of his deal are essentially like that old Toys R Us Contest

[00:44:31] Where they give you like 10 minutes on the clock And you get to go through with it It's a supermarket sweep, yes exactly Yeah but like the Toys R Us So he's like all you gotta do is enter a bunch of times And if you take down my enemy

[00:44:43] Get the city back for me 24 hours I'll look the other way I'll cover my eyes and you just take whatever you want Instead And these guys are hedonists They just want to fucking Yes instead but But so Harkwood who's Jack Thompson Who's sort of the leader

[00:45:02] He's against Rucker Howard though Who's like his former buddy Yes Cause I think he doesn't really approve of Rucker Howard's methods This guy has a method to his madness Rucker Howard's just chaos Yeah and so Harkwood also is obsessed with this nun Who's like only in the first

[00:45:16] Like part of the movie And kinda gets forgotten later Like who's having these weird seizures The opening of this movie is really chaotic And everyone keeps on writing her off It's like she's crazy don't deal with her He's like she's not crazy

[00:45:29] He's like he wants, I can help her She does seem to be a neurodiverse woman In a time without proper Mental health care But he cares for her as a human being He also slashed her head open I think that's sort of Something to do with that

[00:45:46] He feels bad about that Ben's not happy about this movie Oh it was upsetting Very upsetting But I think Not to make this argument I think that's kind of the point And I think this is a movie Where there are no conventional pleasures

[00:46:04] Right? This movie is just about Like digging into the morass Of this shit, this time These people, these souls Right? And then from this film On he figures out how to take everything He's interested in The body of a conventionally Entertaining Hollywood movie

[00:46:22] Which is what makes this film so interesting The tension between the two But this movie has no characters to root for Yeah The stakes of the movie are very odd No bleak Because at a certain point it just becomes Let's just fucking do whatever we want

[00:46:38] And let's just try to defend our right To do whatever we want You don't really want to see anyone Succeed or fail It's like the fucking Texas Chainsaw Massacre or something Sure, you're kind of rooting for someone in that one Ben, it's like a biker gang movie

[00:46:54] What's kind of like the love with BCU BCU only reference films we've talked about before Ben, you texted me We texted the two of us I'm like who am I supposed to root for Who's the hero in this And I said you're rooting for The Plague

[00:47:08] That's who you're rooting for in this movie Kill everyone This even Stevens little shit This even sucks I also just love that That's Paul Verhoeven being these chivalrous people It's all bullshit He's mad about that This fucking SJW God damn it

[00:47:28] But I do love that when this movie came out And critics were just like what the fuck Is this Who are we supposed to root for This movie has no heroes That guy who played Steven must have been like My character doesn't murder people For no reason

[00:47:44] Sexually assault people But you suck I mean I think the reason why I was bummed out too Is like I kind of Think everything's bullshit And this was like Confronting you with that a little bit It's very nihilistic Yeah I'm like I have to be more fun

[00:48:04] I have to start being nicer to people So 2018, you're a fun Ben You're gonna try to be more fun You're the fun Ben My friend Pat decided one year That he wanted to start cooking more Chat who listens to the show shout out to Pat May

[00:48:18] And he dubbed that year that was his New Year's resolution that he wanted to start cooking meal So he could save money and eat better And he dubbed it the year of the chef Great Which I never stop laughing at because it's so self aggrieved

[00:48:30] I'm just not like oh it's not just I'm gonna cook this year I'm going to be A chef You're the chef Shout out to Pat May Thank you Pat May So they pillaged the town Pat May Pat May Pat May Nibirre

[00:48:50] Have you ever figured out which one she was Which one is she again Pat May what do you mean Is she Nibirre or am I a doll Oh Nibirre is the fake one I think I'm a doll is the real one Yeah

[00:49:02] Anyway they pillaged the town and immediately the lord's like Get out of here No 24 hours you crazy Get the fuck out of here They were like oh but you promised He was like yeah I promised before I was in my castle Now I'm in my castle

[00:49:16] You guys got nothing on me What's this around us my castle My castle and my rules rule one go away So it's a group of like Eight mercenaries and eight prostitutes Who all hang out together And almost immediately upon being kicked out The Susan Terrell's character Selene

[00:49:34] Gives birth to a dead baby Right she's been there pregnant Handing out these beers and You realize quickly that it is Rucker Howard's baby presumably There's this running joke for a little bit Who knows whose baby it is But they seem to be

[00:49:50] Somewhat together as much as any two people Can be together in this amorphous like puddle Of sexuality This isn't really a monogamy situation Right but they kind of got to think She gives birth It is stillborn They treat this like water rolling off their back

[00:50:06] Because their lives suck so much She's a little sad but actually yeah The woman who delivers it is nice where she's just like I mean it's cold right now But then even she goes like who did he look like And Rucker Howard's like he looked like me

[00:50:18] And she's so smart like it's like we got to find the Lemonade in this lemon almost immediately Because our life is just gonna suck Yeah So they're at rock bottom This group They're rooting for to get out of rock bottom But they're not doing well

[00:50:34] And he decides he's going to bury his Stillborn son And in digging he finds a statue Of Saint Martin His patron saint A man with a sword which is unusual Yes Saint Martin of Tours Because he cut off the hands of thieves Yes Venerated as a military saint

[00:50:56] And they go this is a sign Yeah We're the good thieves The things we were gonna stole were stolen from us By the guy who told us originally We had free reign to steal them Right and there is a cardinal Although I don't think he's a real cardinal

[00:51:12] Because cardinals tend to be like Important people Sure There's a religious man with him Who is insane Yes this movie hates organized religion Ronald Lacey's character A new leader The statue has a pointing finger And they're like let's just go wherever it's pointing

[00:51:32] Whatever it's pointing is relative to where we place it So then cut to The Lord's Son Stephen Yeah Played by Tom Berlins and who is this guy I don't know I looked at the poster He's Australian The poster with its painting style Is that Tom Beringer

[00:51:50] And then the movie started and I saw the name come up And I was like did they just misspell Tom Beringer It's not Tom Beringer I know and the poster kind of looks like Tom Beringer weirdly Yeah he's not a real guy He's an Australian actor

[00:52:02] And he's a number one fuck boy He's betrothed to Agnes Jennifer Jason Lee Who's a young still like On Jannu right? I mean Fast Times, Richard M. Hyze 82 What else This is a weird choice for her to make at this point

[00:52:18] Easy money, yes she had not made a lot of movies yet This is very early for her But she's kind of the only big American actor in this film Uh, yeah Kern Bruno Kirby Jack Thompson's, well he's not American But you know he's a fairly

[00:52:34] At that point well known actor Yeah you're right but he'd been in Breaker Maron And so like people had heard of him I think I said American Made in the USA baby So He's right His dad This fuck head lord Arnold Feeney Says great news

[00:52:58] Your wife's coming she's gonna be here in like 15 minutes And he's like what the fuck are you talking about He's like I made a deal She's coming here I've been writing letters on your behalf No big deal She's a virgin and the kids like get the fuck out

[00:53:10] This is gross shut up dad Then we cut to her in her carriage Right? Yeah and who's her Bart Simpson Do you know this? You know that Andy Handmaiden who's like That's Nancy Cartwright who voices Bart Simpson One of her rare live action Film roles It's all weird

[00:53:30] That's a bummer too because her character sucks She's not the best What about the part where she does the Bartman I like that part I mean that at least like I made it a little bit more palpable Remember that part There's that weird and acronistic part

[00:53:44] Where they just cut to the field And she's there doing the Bartman Butterfinger Phoenix They cut between that and like when the young queen Is watching her fuck And she goes never lay a finger on my Butterfinger Not only does she watch

[00:53:58] She comes and interrupts them having sex in the field And their reaction is like I don't know who's fun though So she spanks her To be with a stick Spanks her in a fun way Bart Simpson's horny Jennifer Jason Lee is like I'm about to go

[00:54:14] Be married to this guy And she asks what's it like And she seems really kind of Fascinating and excited by this And she sees the maid flirting with this night And it's like go fuck him And Bart Simpson's like don't have a cow man

[00:54:28] What are you talking about right This is our worst episode And she's like Go behind those bushes Fuck him now And Bart Simpson's like millhouse I'm so mad at you We haven't even gotten to like The most important parts of the movie yet

[00:54:48] And Jeffery Jason Lee is like I command you I'll fire you if you don't do it Sort of like Monty Bert Yes, she pulls a real Burns to She smithers her pretty hard And forces her to go behind This bush and fuck this guy

[00:55:04] And after like 15 seconds comes out with a branch And like hits his butt a lot And then like runs away with Bart Simpson laughing She's got a weird sexuality This character And they eat a mandrake together And both of them are kind of like

[00:55:18] I'm not happy about this either But then they eat the mandrake Which is supposed to like bond them They eat a mandrake underneath two Hanging corpses They're real corpsie too These aren't just like dead bodies And he's not shooting around them

[00:55:34] And he mentions that when a man is hung They come in their pants And that means something Sure, it means that their seed spills That means something Mandrakes at the time were these If you eat a mandrake The root has hallucinogenic properties

[00:55:50] So she's like let's eat the root And they also look like a person kind of To eat it and you'd be like Mandrake root She's like let's eat these mandrakes And he's like come all over them And this is the meat cute In a Verhoeven movie You're right

[00:56:08] I'm not being cross here She's kidnapped by a bunch of marauders They're sharing a cum drenched mandrake Underneath two corpses And then she's kidnapped Then she's kidnapped and then she is Because this is the start of their renaissance We're gonna fucking do what we want

[00:56:26] Here we go, this fuckboy son We're gonna get back at him, let's take her Yeah they take her as revengeance Revengeance? What the fuck am I talking about? No you should fucking trademark that Revengeance Revengeance to Avi Lerner And get that made tomorrow

[00:56:42] Starring Nicholas Cage and John Q. Stack And then comes What I would call the toughest and most upsetting Scene of the film in which at first They're gonna gang rape her Then Martin decides No, I'm going to Sort of claim her You know he sort of pulls rank

[00:57:02] I'm the leader Among these The most important part of the film Is her people It's a very tough scene It was cut by Orion Jennifer Jasonley was upset Because she thinks it's the most crucial part Of the movie And her argument Which is look, wherever you're gonna land

[00:57:24] On Verhoeven This is the argument to have Her argument was It is more offensive to cut that scene down Than to fully engage with that scene Uncomfortable is one way of putting it Ben pointed out to me before we recorded How upsetting it was to watch the movie

[00:57:40] And also how it kind of comes up on you It's surprising Because even though we know they're very bad It's very matter of fact I'll tell you the element Of this scene that I find There really is a sense of them Essentially like laying claim

[00:57:56] Right, she's our possession The element that is most deserving in this scene Is we forgot to mention there was a small boy And he is just standing there Beating a drum and cheering on Yes, that's right That's his fucking world view It's just this boy being like

[00:58:12] Blat Martin have her But then there's this Very complicated power shift Where Jennifer Jasonley kind of takes control Yes But I think This is the thing that I feel like there's other movies that do this too Where like straw dogs maybe It's sort of a classic example

[00:58:30] Of a scene where then there's like A suggestion that the woman is enjoying it This is more than a suggestion No, right And I think Verhoeven's Think Verhoeven's suggestion is more That she's almost trying to humiliate him That's what I think By robbing him of his power

[00:58:48] Nonetheless very upsetting scene Because she sort of starts saying Yeah and they're like oh She's fucking you Right, something like straw dogs where you're seeing an assault And she's sort of inferring that she's enjoying it Is very different than something like this

[00:59:02] Which is very much a performative power play Of her being like I want to have control of this situation I want to humiliate you so you cannot take anything away from me Yes But then cast this very complicated Die for the rest of the movie

[00:59:16] Which is their central dynamic Their dynamic is that essentially Where it's like they are somewhat romantically involved In a weird way He basically does kind of make her his new woman Much of this may Throughout is that she Is that she's sort of just Trying to stay alive

[00:59:34] You know like She's been kidnapped Insinuate herself into his affections We have talked about in the past I know we talked about it like in The Strange Days episode In the Strange Days episode We talked about the sexual assault scene in that movie Right

[00:59:52] And how like she really makes you sit in it So it's not just some fucking plot device Yeah As means for justification for another Character's actions to go out and do something Right? Yeah And I think this is a movie which like Love It or Hate It

[01:00:08] Is actually interested in the Psychological aftermath of that type Of situation It doesn't just treat as like And now revenge You know what I'm saying? I do And it's kind of similar to Elle With like the conflicting Shifting relationship between the two of them Yeah

[01:00:28] And so they invade this castle Yes They take the castle And they're like branding as king We need to pick a color We're red now But the reason they take this castle with these Is because everyone in it has the plague So it's a bad castle

[01:00:46] On balance, shit castle St. Martin did point them to it But it was also like there's the scene Where they're in the caravan and they're like St. Martin just moved, we have to shift directions It's like it moved because it's in the back of a Fucking rickety caravan

[01:01:00] Of course it's gonna move, everything's moving But they keep on just deferring to this There's also the scene So at this point what's his name? Harckwood What Harckwood has been recruited by By Martin Not Martin, Steven Yes Because Harckwood's like I'm out of the game

[01:01:20] Yeah, actually that's the thing Steven is an asshole Because he takes the nun To sort of coerce Harckwood Into taking down Martin Harckwood's like I'm retired, I said one last job I'm out, please let me be here with my wounded nun Steven sucks

[01:01:34] Steven sucks, good point, Steven sucks It's cool when he gets electrocuted That's an awesome scene And Steven's like if you don't fucking come with me Like, you know And yes Through suffering Yeah Emotional manipulation, Harckwood to joining him And there's the scene where

[01:01:56] They come face to face with what they believe To be the signs of the plague, right? And he goes to see a doctor And Steven who is all college Learned This is a good scene Where the doctor's like here's what you do Lead them dry Right

[01:02:14] You do, I'm a doctor Steven comes in and he's like hey look I went to university What is it, Ottoman Or maybe Moorish or something Arabic The big Arabic trend now, you lance the boils Yeah, exactly, instead of just Bleeding them dry And the doctor's like that's sacrilegious

[01:02:34] I'm not doing any Arabic bullshit Yeah, he's literally just like No, it's against Western religion And then Steven leaves And Harckwood's like okay but seriously Fucking lance me And he's like I'm not gonna do it, it's not what Jesus wants You know, and this movie like the two

[01:02:52] Devotely religious figures are fools In this film, like a doctor who doesn't do his job Properly And a dude who listens to everything the statue says And then later in the movie kind of even has this moment Where he's like please prove to me that

[01:03:04] I'm listening to you and not just a man Well and then also He when he gets He starts beating himself over the back with his belt Because Maybe that'll solve this issue If I repent But also He likes everything Jesus represented Hates everything that Jesus turned into

[01:03:24] I guess so, there's also that incredible Shot later in the movie where he's got The burning wheel behind his head So he's got this sort of flaming halo Martin to be clear And You know, it's very pointed Draw your own connections Yeah

[01:03:42] So here's my problem with this movie The first half is all this stuff we're talking about Yes And there's Martin and his band of warriors Then there's Stephen and him Gathering his warriors And then it just turns into This movie where they're all in the castle

[01:03:58] Alone getting the plague For like an hour There's also a section where it kind of just becomes animal house It's like now they have to castle Right, fucking with each other. There's the fork and knife scene Yeah, they learn how to use forks and knives And there's the

[01:04:12] The bathtub scene The bathtub scene which goes on and on Very long time, which is this sort of like Quasar seduction again I guess Right, but the idea is that this time it is kind of a romantic sex scene Which we have not seen in the film

[01:04:26] But also she's initiating it rather than him Right, because she makes him turn around She has a whole footsie scene Where again it seems like she's trying to Insinuate herself into safety By sort of controlling Martin She has a very odd casting choice for this movie

[01:04:40] Because she is So modern in this era Yeah Later she becomes better at sort of Like Like Atlantic, not Atlantic City Yeah, no, what's the phone thinking of? Kansas City Kansas City, not Atlantic City And Hudsucker proxy She becomes better at like Being a period, ladies and gentlemen

[01:05:02] And John Riz in that, but like in this movie She kind of just feels like The fast times of Riz Men high girl Transposed into this time She's so young too How old was she then? She must be like 21 in this movie Right No, she's 20 maybe 22, 23 Born in 62

[01:05:22] But you know and then there's like the thing Where the dog drinks the plague blood And then the dog gives them plague And there's like dog meat A lot of business with like chunks of dog Well a shot that I think is pure of our

[01:05:34] Hoagin which is like The big flank of dog landing on them On the gun, yeah They got dog steaks flying And they realize it's a plague dog It's the boys dog Ben have you ever been this mad about a movie?

[01:05:48] Choice? Like when's the last time you were this Like pissed off The Phantom fucking Menace dog Like all the way back there This is the worst since The ninth episode about the Phantom Menace Yes, and I like Verhoeven's movies But this is in the middle Of the Weinstein

[01:06:08] Yes So it's just like the morass of Also seeing this now is like kind of Rough What I've been referring to as a cultural Kidney stone being passed Where it's like all of us trying to fucking Exize this like awful toxicity That exists in our culture

[01:06:26] Structures and all of that And this is a movie that's just about toxicity But this movie I'm gonna be A happy Benny Moving forward You're the fun You're right, it's fun Ben So I'm gonna have fun Hey See I like this movie a lot

[01:06:48] I like this movie too I don't think it's enjoyable to watch But I think it's pretty fascinating on an anthropological level I do see I like this movie more in the first half Where I think it's more achieving what it wants to do Yeah

[01:07:02] The second half just sort of I struggle with it Just because I don't think it gains much From then everyone dies at the plague Uh, I kind of do I kind of By that point in the movie I want to see Everyone wiped out

[01:07:16] No no, that's not my complaint My complaint is that they're dying My complaint is just that it becomes kind of boring Chaos where like it's just them fucking around For ages And then they all die of the plague like that Well and it also becomes this

[01:07:30] Game of like one-ups minship between like Steven And Martin that's like all about McKeesville and which one of them controls Jennifer Grayson Lee And he's a real vacuum of a character I don't give a shit about him There is a great moment where he invents the fireman's ladder

[01:07:44] Yes Earlier in the movie he kind of invents the bomb Yeah, he proposes rolling dynamite at the walls Right, he's like flick from a bug's life Where he's kind of with these crazy inventions and everyone's like Don't do it

[01:07:56] Yeah, this movie is kind of like a bug's life But right then there's the scene where they build A whole siege tower Yes And then Rucker Hauer has the great idea of blowing it up Right And they have these pretty impressive shots

[01:08:10] They do, that's expensive, I mean that's the trick of this movie Right? Is it's presenting it to you Like you're watching Freaking Excalibur How did anyone give him the money to make this? Didn't they read the fucking script? But still the level of production value when there's like

[01:08:24] No conventional heroics in this film The question with Verho Yes How do you get the money for this? Because I mean the Starship Trooper story We'll talk about it on that episode But we're here this demo There was all VFX of a bug killing a cow Yeah

[01:08:42] And then he just walks in front of the demo at the end of it And goes, please let me make this movie And it's like, you know, so he was just like See, looks nice, crazy, right? Well here's the thing I'll say about Verhoven Okay

[01:08:54] He has his own skin, he has roller blades He likes gold He loves gold Ben kind of likes that Ben he loves gold, remember We can call him Gold Benber When we do our J. Roche miniseries We're never doing that Gold Benber J Roche No, he didn't

[01:09:16] He stayed away from that toxic I know the first name of that person It was J. Roche's first AD Really? He might have wanted to take the helm on that one I think it's Marco something What I was going to say is Marco Schnabo

[01:09:30] One out two ain't bad It might be Schnabel Julian Schnabel's brother Is he? No The two things about Verhoven He's always been such a kind of Inarguable technical filmmaker Right? A, he was incredible with Effects and pioneering effects Once he gets into his Hollywood period

[01:09:54] And he pushed forward a lot A lot of special effects Technology, right? So that's a big thing But also just in terms of his basic Cinematic language, he is kind of this very bizarre Classicist In terms of the language of his shots And editing and construction of sequences

[01:10:12] Which then he uses that very conventional Film making style for this very Maximilist, extreme Upsetting material But he's not doing it in a schlocky way Like that's kind of the bizarre thing Is when you watch this movie and it has these Like big sweeping Vistas

[01:10:28] And then people like shitting against a shed You know? This is not a movie that is trying to hide under The like, oh what just a B movie Thing, like this is no Basket case He takes everything equally seriously And he's not like a flash over substance guy

[01:10:44] So there was always like a technical filmmaker There to go back to to give studios to give him Money, because it's like the guy knows how to make a movie He's never going to hand us something that doesn't Cut together Well sure girls, but yeah

[01:10:56] That movie cuts together Oh I love that movie but I don't know if it cuts together That's my complaint about that movie It's his complaint about the movie We'll talk about it We'll get there eventually As Han said to Giselle The other thing about Verhoeven Is this moment

[01:11:14] This movie was the real sort of like Reckoning moment for him Where he said like, okay I can't make Dutch movies anymore I tried to make this movie with a weird combination Of financing not really in the studio system Not really out of it

[01:11:28] This is where you think he's like You know what? I just got to be Hollywood Like that's where the money is Advantage is to movies I want to make And he has said when this movie came out And the critics had it and barely got released

[01:11:40] You know what? I guess I don't know what a fucking American audience Is want So he takes his wife and he moves to Hollywood He ingrains himself in American culture And starts studying popular American films And this is the thing that I think defines him

[01:11:52] It's the difference between Like a rich little And a Bill Hader, okay It's like rich little someone who can just Learn the voice and impersonate someone And say, uhhhh great who gives a shit Sir, I had no idea we'd be dragging rich little Okay, sure

[01:12:08] Oh technical oppression as to who gives a shit Yeah I get you, I get you Bill Hader is the guy who's able to get the technical qualities of Impression but then turn a character into it Use that as a device to get at some other bit

[01:12:18] Is James Carville looks and sounds like James Carville but he's not interested in just doing James Carville Bill Hader is not that gifted impressionist But he is a wonderful Comedian and character actor It doesn't matter, it's not because his impressions are never That precise

[01:12:34] I think they're pretty good but okay there are other examples like that But I'm with you Dana Carvey is a similar kind of guy where it's like You learn the moves so that you can make something else out of it But Carvey was so like

[01:12:44] He would always find like one thing Right that's just right that he's gonna harp on But I think Hader's like, I mean he's the best I think Verhoeven kind of becomes this Weird impressionist of American blockbuster films Like he figures out all the technical

[01:12:58] Aspects he needs to know And it's like if you're gonna beat him You have to know their own game And if I can learn their language If I can learn their language Then I can smuggle all the things I actually want to say Into these conventional looking movies

[01:13:12] Yeah you're right I think you're right You've created whole arcs for Verhoeven But he says that himself Where? What do you mean? There's an interview on the fucking Wikipedia page Where he said I surrounded myself With American culture and wanted to figure it out

[01:13:30] And he said after he got the Robocop script He like watched fucking action movies And studied them and said like I need to make something that looks like an American action movie He also grew up watching Hollywood movies

[01:13:40] And loved them, like he was always I think a little fascinated That's mentioned in the uh But he said after this I guess I don't know what Americans want And I need to figure out what they want If I'm gonna be able to make a movie

[01:13:52] Yeah well this is not a Hollywood movie Surface pleasures for anybody Right, whereas in Robocop In Total Recall In Basic Instinct even like You know these are movies with more of an arc for a character Yes Maybe a happier ending at least a sort of a resolution

[01:14:08] They're what I've called Before movies where he gets to have his cake Needed to, they get to function both ways They're dissections and sort of post-modern Like deconstructions of these tropes But also for an idiot they work as like Oh it's cool it's a Robocop he shoots people

[01:14:22] Yeah but I mean and then Starship Troopers Is sort of the most extreme version of it Where they're like, wait what, yeah! And you know even Hollywood Like even people in America are like This is very over the top

[01:14:34] I don't know how I'm supposed to feel about this But he was able to make it Within the system because he was able to Make movies that looked and moved and sounded Until he wasn't able to make it Into the system anymore, right?

[01:14:46] He cashed one too many checks maybe I don't know Is it's not like he ever, this is his biggest failure This movie You know it's not like he crashes Cause Hallowman even was like Reasonably successful Cost too much money but was like a hit It was a hit

[01:15:04] But so at the end of this movie There's this sort of Moment where Steven throws the one remaining Piece of his beloved dog Into the water well for the castle Poisons them at the source This is your moment Who are you with? You get to choose

[01:15:24] Powers in your hands Everyone drinks the water Including this young boy Let's them all get the plague But then when Martin's gonna drink She knocks out of his hand Cause she's got these conflicted feelings for Martin But then almost immediately Vomiting Boils Everyone realizes what's happened

[01:15:46] It happens too fast for me Yeah, they find it really fast I just don't like it It's goofy, it's sort of zombie-ish And what I kind of like about the movie Is that it's very mundane before then But then even he goes back to these weird moments

[01:16:00] Like when they find the boils on the kid And they realize the kid has the plague And they all have to turn on this woman And be like you can't have your son here Like it's us or him But the movie becomes like the total Like destruction

[01:16:16] Of this society that they built And Steven and Martin Right, fighting for the hand of this woman That neither of them actually care about Steven Martin, I just put that together Oh yeah, this movie's about Steve Martin No, Martin tries to kill Jennifer Jason Lee By smothering her

[01:16:32] And he says sort of like You only love me when it's convenient for me He's figured out that she knew about the plague And then How does she I guess Steven shows up They have a fight Martin overpowers him and like Chains him up

[01:16:51] Or is that earlier? Yes And then Steven's trapped They're both trapped Right, cause Martin gets shoved down a well They shoved him down a well Right, and then she lets it happen But then when he comes back She's like oh honey so happy to see you

[01:17:09] And he's like I was just down a fucking plague well Yeah, it's a shitty well But there is that scene where Martin gets struck by Lighting, I see him get struck by lightning I think it's really cool Yeah, and the scene where Steve Martin

[01:17:19] Get struck by lighting and comes up with the idea For Walden Crazy Guy That's in the movie Yeah I just feel like our energy is gone That's the top of the talk Violence, yeah The crucial thing Because this is what I was saying about Robocop

[01:17:37] That movie has an ending This movie's ending is Steven Rescu's Agnes Yay, he burns everything down Let's Martin get away But she sees Martin getting away With some spoils Of war And she sort of just doesn't say Anything about it Yeah He probably has the plague

[01:17:55] Yup, it's a movie about bad people Anyway, they're probably all gonna die Right Life in 1501 was shit Yeah, and this movie comes out and people go Fuck you It was a shit life Why did you make us watch this? It's just like it comes out

[01:18:11] Some limited screens and the studio's like Yeah, we're not gonna release this wide And that's that I don't think it even had a chance to be hated I think it got okay reviews The ones I read were not very positive

[01:18:23] And people were like, what the fuck is this Because as you said they were comparing it to Like the other medieval epics At the time they were like, what the fuck What are we supposed to be taken out of this?

[01:18:35] But he's got his foot in the door at Orion Sure You see that he is a technical You know, a technically adept filmmaker And they start throwing him scripts and going Okay, what if we could reign you in a little bit We'll get to RoboCup

[01:18:49] But that's the big thing this movie accomplishes But first We're gonna play it The box office game even though this movie doesn't have a box office But it did come out Labor Day weekend 1985 Number one In its ninth week

[01:19:05] Is what I assume had to be the number one movie of 1985 You know what's crazy It will have like It was the number one movie of nothing It was the box office by the time this episode comes out But right now the big news story is Disney negotiating

[01:19:19] With movie theaters About the terms for The Last Jedi As they've done the last two years for Star Wars Where they want like an insane cut They want like 75 to 80% Of the box office revenue Whereas in most situations The split between the studio is like 50-50 or 60-40

[01:19:35] It's usually weighed towards the studio In the opening weekends Which is why we've created an opening weekend Culture And Disney's just sort of like Fucking take it or leave it where Star Wars The other deal is you have to commit to playing the movie For like

[01:19:51] Two months on your biggest screen And in the story they were like The theaters kind of have to go with it I mean after all The Force Awakens was number one For four straight weeks And it's like the highest grossing film of all time now

[01:20:05] The big selling point is like four weeks where it was number one E.T. was number one like 17 weeks But it's a totally different era Because this movie that's number one And it has been on in theaters for nine weeks Is on 1500 screens And that's the most

[01:20:19] Slower of any movie in the box office You know now of course the movie Like Star Wars will come out to like 4500 screens Even like Unforgiven It took a year for that to make $100 million It just made $10 million a month

[01:20:31] So what do you think an Unforgiven movie in 1985 was? I can give you more hints What are the other hints other than how it's done I haven't given you any hints It's just the number one movie of 1985 Oh it's the highest grossing film of that year

[01:20:45] Back to the future? I thought you could get it just from that I didn't hear that it was the number one Number one movie of 1985 What was the number two movie in 1985 Unrelated You know what I always mess up 1984 is gremlins and ghostbusters Come out the same day

[01:21:03] We're gonna talk about that So we have more to say Number two Is Has been in the box office for two weeks Star's the star of Back to the Future He's number one and two At the box office Michael J. Fox It's Teen Wolf

[01:21:23] They came out the same time Two months later This guy and he's in family ties This guy is fucking owning right now So shrimpy guy You know what's weird about Michael J. Fox Because I think a lot about Certain good actors who don't last

[01:21:39] Culturally because they never found A movie that stuck in the craw People who are big at the time Bruno Kirby is always In film history, no because he's been in five Of the most beloved movies of all time So this little mousy character

[01:21:53] Actor is always gonna be known Yeah Michael J. Fox after Back to the Future Why didn't that guy become a huge star He did, he had a bunch of movies that were huge That no one ever talks about ever again

[01:22:05] And also he won four Emmys in a row But he had Secret of my Success Big City He did that buddy cop movie with James Woods Life with Mikey, Doc Hollywood No one fucking talks about it Doc Hollywood is the second most popular

[01:22:19] Michael J. Fox movie behind Back to the Future What? Like that's what's crazy I'm saying in terms of still current day standing You know, reputation Michael J. Fox is not listed on Box Office Mojo, that's why I went silent I was trying to find him Anyway, doesn't matter

[01:22:37] Number three Is a movie The debut Of a very big filmmaker Who you like Sort of a cult comedy hit It's in its fourth week Peewee's Big Adventure It's made 25 million dollars It's a sleeper hit Yeah, for sure So three pretty definitive 80s films

[01:23:02] Are the top three, I mean Teen Wolf's Bad Yeah, Teen Wolf's Bad But you know, I guess it's well Known Yeah, but I mean Back to the Future And Peewee's Big Adventure Those are 80s like cultural Touchstones And let's not talk about Peewee's Big Adventure anymore

[01:23:20] And we'll probably never talk about it again On this podcast Wink, wink, wink, wink Wink, wink, wink, wink You're very annoying Tell the listener at home what I'm doing He's winking with like both eyes And saying wink every time he does it

[01:23:36] I'm alternating, don't make it sound like I'm blinking I said both eyes Oh, okay, whatever Alright, now the next one is an action movie I've never heard of It stars Michael Dutekoff Michael Dutekoff? Who the fuck is that? I don't know, some guy

[01:23:50] He was like an action star Michael Dutekoff Yeah, he's, I think he's Tron No, he's not Tron Bruce Brock's letter You know it's one of those names, he's in Tron I don't know, he's a guy I mean there's no way I know what this movie is

[01:24:06] It's about a ninja American Ninja? Okay, I do know about that movie I didn't know he was the star, yeah I know American Ninja I know that, but I don't know anything about American Ninja It's exactly what you think it is Well the poster is an American flag

[01:24:20] And it looks like Sort of like Gile from Street Fighter Basically like a guy in camo pants and then a tank top Is, has a Katana And he's fighting a ninja So a lot of I think this might not quite know What a ninja is this poster

[01:24:36] I repeat it is exactly what you think it is Sure Well it made It made a more American It made 3.2 million dollars And it's open weekend, which is triple its budget I know Well so Dutikov must have been His quote must have been What, I mean 50,000

[01:24:56] His quote was definitely You have to feed me every day Now number five Is a Nicholas Mayer joint You know Nicholas Mayer? Directed Rathakon Directed Undiscovered Country Directed time after time That's right No that's not what it is Wrote a lot of movies It's a comedy

[01:25:20] Yeah I think it is No but it's M.E. I don't know It's a two hander Starring a famous actor And another famous comedy Actor of the era But it's this famous actor It's when he's still in his straight comedy phase Two male actors One of them is

[01:25:44] Straight comedies but the implications He later got out of comedies Oh I mean he just becomes a movie star Hanks? Okay so Hanks picture Is it He's the more famous or the less famous Who's more famous than Tom Hanks? At the time of this film's release

[01:26:00] He's top build Someone else is the other hand You know what his wife's in this movie So is this where they met? It might be Two hander The comedic actor is one of my favorites Oh really that makes sense You know what

[01:26:18] They first worked on episode of Buzzing Bodies But here's where they reconnect And they kind of get together I think And so where was this guy at in his career And where is this guy now The other person? Dead The second answer is dead

[01:26:34] He's just starting to emerge As like a comedy star He'd been in a movie with Hanks the year before He's like a sidekick guy But he becomes kind of At least for a little while there He's like a leading man In a sort of comedy guy way

[01:26:50] I mean He comes a lean comedy man He's dead now Like a tragic young dad Pretty young How old was he when he died 43 Is this the one with John Candy? Mm-hmm It's not the great outdoors Is John Candy and Danak Right I believe that's correct

[01:27:14] This one is called I Know Ah Fuck This Movie Candy and Hanks I have not Heard of this movie Is it sort of like camping outdoors themed? Yeah well they go to like They join the Peace Corps If you were to join the Peace Corps

[01:27:32] How would you describe what you're doing? Signing up Volunteers! The movie's called Volunteers Thank you Ben Yes Volunteers It's number 5 in the box office Great pick Ben with John Candy Oh yeah for sure Uncle Buck Is a TV movie that I would watch?

[01:27:54] Would you call it a Ben's Choice? Yes I'm not dropping any hints here I'm not winking as I'm saying That's a John Hughes movie We're not doing John Hughes Let's do John Hughes Let's do John Hughes Well you know he only directed That's a really good number Like 9 8

[01:28:18] But you know they're samey And the first one is So racist It makes me so mad I almost shoved my computer off the screen In anger at that joke Off the table 16 candles is the first one I have a tough time with that movie Not only it's pretty

[01:28:38] Gross too Weird movie Kind of like the movie we just talked about Yeah but that movie Doesn't think it's a whimsical comedy for teenagers Sure It's a bunch of blood doesn't 16 candles stuff Breakfast club I stand behind Breakfast clubs are really interesting movie

[01:28:58] I know the complaints against it I face them, I recognize them I think on the whole I think it's a well made film Plain Strings and Automobiles is a masterpiece It's like one of the best It's like one of the best American comedies of all time

[01:29:12] Love Plain Strings and Plain Dentrains I love Plain, I don't know about Best American comedies of all time But it's a great movie I put in my top 25 And then I put in Top 50 at least It's a really good holiday Yes, it also

[01:29:30] Talking about our man JC should have won Best Actor That is an Oscar worthy performance If I've ever seen one There's a lot of depth to him He's terrific He has these like really great moments The I Like Me People Like Me scene Put that clip up against

[01:29:48] Anyone Else's Oscar clip That's a fucking phenomenal piece of acting And that happens minute 30 Like that's not even like his big final scene People like me My wife likes me because I'm an open book What you see is what you get Year of the Dragon? Del Griffin

[01:30:04] Del Griffin baby We're doing John Hughes We got her Year of the Dragon came out this week Tramino and Rourke We're doing him next Everyone we promised we were doing Tramino Yeah right The other And then the other thing I want to mention Numbers 8 and 9 are reissues

[01:30:26] Of the films Gremlins and Ghostbusters Oh wow only a year later Okay yeah huge movies Watershed movies I cheered Ben up remember how frustrated he was Yeah no I got Well that's my thing I'm going to be happy It's fun Ben you're the fun

[01:30:42] Because this movie reminded me of like Don't be a bummer don't be like Interesting take away from this movie I don't want to be real I want to be fantasy Like I'm going to start watching football I'm going to fucking I don't know man

[01:30:56] If you want to avoid problematic things Football is something to stay away from These are fun things a fun sport completely Devoid of conflict right now Yeah that's fun I don't know I'll think of more fun I also think The way that Verhoeven Starts dealing with problematic issues

[01:31:14] In the future films we're going to discuss Becomes more pointed and productive Whereas this movie is just like Fucking just wallowing Right in depravity Like Rebel cops about an American Jesus Like you get these movies where it's people fighting against The evil

[01:31:32] Yeah and like I said there's also an ending Like with a character Whereas this movie is just like Everything got burned down or people died of the plague Martin doesn't even die And moments of thrilling adventure And successful comedy And such In other movies I'm saying

[01:31:50] This one's just a lot of Like Just fucked up people going like AHHHHH Across like a banquet table at each other But let's give this movie credit It deserves a lot of credit Because I think it's kind of the Rosetta Stone For one man's career

[01:32:08] Oh Rosetta Stone your favorite term Who's? Mark Maron This movie where they lock the gates Okay Get out Leave the room get out of here You wouldn't have men And not for flesh plus blood I'm done I think we should call it Flush plus blood

[01:32:30] Thanks for your good outdoing our social media Joe Bond, Pat Reynolds From our work Game song Podship casters Tune in next week for The greatest movie ever man Griffin's gonna go wild I have never been more excited to talk about a film on this podcast

[01:32:50] I mean I think it's why we're doing Verhoeven It's the main reason but I think all I'm Interesting to talk about but I mean This is my favorite film we have discussed Up until this point and I don't know if we'll ever

[01:33:00] Discuss any of the movies I like more than Robocop Which are like That Altman movie you love In the dark cloud Toy Story 2 Yeah And Rushmore I'd say Robocop is my numerator He got so mad at me when I shot on Rushmore that one time

[01:33:18] You can go fuck yourself He was so mad I'd say like lock it in that's my first My top four in order I don't even hate Rushmore You thought you were done Get the fuck out of my studio But Robocop might be

[01:33:34] The top movie on my favorite film Last we ever discussed I get that, that's cool I think I would have an aneurysm Trying to do Wes Anderson with you Maybe I would be somewhat negative about a lot of the movies Right, I don't think we'll ever do Lasseter

[01:33:50] No, you never know Maybe Altman we could maybe if we ever did That decade But I'm not doing like Buffalo Bill in the Indians He made a lot of movies where you're just like My pitch would be 1970 to 1980

[01:34:04] Yeah, but I think Buffalo Bill in the Indians is in there Okay, so that's the one That's our way to water Bring on Han and Stefan I've never seen that one It's really boring 1976, yeah Robocop, it's gonna be awesome So we've announced our next 12 miniseries

[01:34:22] They're all here in this episode Tremino Lasseter Altman in the 70s The ratings are gonna skyrocket Straight down the middle Strike baby, and it's all finata here Okay, that's enough Bye bye Thank you all for listening And as always Let's stick with us

[01:34:46] We're talking about Robocop next week I swear to God we're talking about Robocop We're talking about Robocop Robo cop, he's a robot in a cop He's a robot in a cop Half man, half cop I fucked it up