Full Metal Jacket with Jon Gabrus

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David, don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check.

[00:00:21] Freedom? You better flush that out your head, new guy. This isn't about freedom, this is a slaughter. If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is podcast.

[00:00:31] He really waits to say poontang though. He really takes a beat before he says poontang and you're like, ha, poontang! I didn't think he was gonna say that. You're not surprised that's the concept, you're surprised that's the word he chose to describe it.

[00:00:50] Poontang, okay, sure, yeah. Here we are in Vietnam, thanks for saying poontang to me. Like we talked about, just to front load this, we talked about this in a previous episode our guest was on. In Heat where Al Pacino talks about the concept of bawling his wife.

[00:01:06] And it's like that's never a term you should use to define what you do with your wife, right? And similarly, if you're talking about dying for something, I don't think you should call it poontang. I think you wanna pick one or the other.

[00:01:19] You know what, that shows you're not ready to die for pussy if you're calling it poontang. You're just not ready. You're not mature enough. A real man dies for pussy. And this is a film of course about defining what a real man is.

[00:01:30] Something we will litigate for the next two hours on this podcast as four experts on masculinity. But I think that's a great point and I think let's get this engraved above our door. Real men die for pussy. Boys die for poontang. Finally my lower back tattoo makes sense.

[00:01:55] The context has been created. You guys are the connoisseurs. I appreciate it. Connoisseurs of context one could say. This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. Did you know that poontang is a corruption of the French word poutin which means prostitute.

[00:02:15] Oh no! I just looked that up. Wow. Well now your lower back tattoo makes sense David. Probably originated in New Orleans is the thinking. And poutin's also just used as like an exclamation. Yes. Yeah. Poutin. Yeah right you can say it as an exclamation.

[00:02:34] Poutin's kind of used as a French fuck. Yeah those guys are crazy. The French? Yeah the French. Don't get me started. The French. The French. Look this is a podcast about filmographies.

[00:02:48] Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce maggots.

[00:03:04] Then right before we start recording producer Ben was like Griffin you might want to back up from the mic because he was assuming I was going to boulderize one of the early army quotes for the opening.

[00:03:16] I don't want to have to do the work necessary to recite that. The dense level of word replacement. Well that. A. Delivery wise it's tough. It's why you bring that guy in. Yeah. Right it's tough.

[00:03:28] But B. I might have to use podcast interchangeably for like 12 different words he uses. Right. Where do you put it? Where do you put it? Yeah. Right. Oh man. You better un-fuck yourself or I will unscrew your head and shit down your podcast.

[00:03:47] Yeah you could take a small piece but I'm like if I take one line it feels like I'm half assing it. The whole beauty of this performance is that every time he talks he talks for like 600 interrupted minutes. He keeps going and you're like I'm still transsexed.

[00:04:02] I guess Griff you could have done the gun mantra you know and replace that with podcast. There are a lot of things I could have done. This movie has a lot of iconic lines. I just liked saying that I would die for podcast.

[00:04:15] Look it's a miniseries on the films of Stanley Kubrick. Our guest has something to say. I thought it could have been remember this was all just a bad podcast fat boy. Well that's what we'll say at the end of the episode. That's what you'll say to me.

[00:04:29] That's what I'll say to you. Gee thanks guys. You have the thousand mile stare and I just go hey fat boy remember this is just a bad podcast. It's a miniseries on the films of Stanley Kubrick. It's called Pods Widecast.

[00:04:43] Today we've gotten to the last film released in his lifetime. True. Sad but true. Just a wild thing to think about. Yeah that's fair. This is it. It's his penultimate film. He does not live to see the release of the final film.

[00:04:59] This is the first film in a three picture deal he signed with Warner Brothers that would remain incomplete. Yes that's funny to think about as well but yes and it was a hit and it's an iconic film. It's it's an incredibly iconic film. Yes.

[00:05:18] I'm not saying that in some argumentative way. It's just when you watch it even though this is you know has a reputation that I'm sure we're all about to talk about.

[00:05:27] When you watch it you're like God no one has imitated this better or like no one has evolved what this movie does. The first half of this movie does like we'll talk about it.

[00:05:37] There's that there's that Kubrick argument that sometimes comes up certainly from his biggest fans that like he made the single best film in every genre he worked in. Right.

[00:05:46] That's a thing that Kubrick fans like to push forward as a notion and it's not like I think this is thought of as the best modern war film but I do think every war film after it is somehow defined by the shadow of this movie.

[00:06:04] You talk about how iconic it is. It is just like every element of this movie you're sort of like are you doing the full metal jacket thing or are you moving in the opposite direction of full metal jacket. Right.

[00:06:14] Just introduce the say the movie's name and introduce our guests in the full metal jacket. Our guests return to the show of high and mighty of action boys pumping two guns looking fit. Let me say. Yeah yeah. He's got a TV bot now. I mean come on.

[00:06:30] He's leaving us. He's a TV star. John Gabrus back on the show. And fit as I drink my second coffee of the morning.

[00:06:37] I want to I want to say Griff I was going to do the background you're doing and I was just like well Griff's gonna do that. I have to let him have that. Yeah. You have the army man voiced by Arlie Army. Right.

[00:06:49] This film is this is Arlie Army's third fourth best performance on film as a as a sergeant. How many toy stories is he in. He's in a lot of three. I mean one it's it's the smallest role. He's sort of got the D3 the mighty ducks Bombay.

[00:07:05] I'll show up at the very beginning of the very end thing. Is he not a military guy in Saving Silverman because that would bump Full Metal Jacket down a whole nother one right.

[00:07:13] You know I was debating in my head I was trying to remember what his status is and saving so he is incredible and so good when he rolls he like rolls out of I'm realizing I remember so little about that movie except how much I love it.

[00:07:28] So now I want to rewatch it but I remember him talking and rolling out of a van as like a surprising moment in the movie when I saw it. His character name is Coach Norton.

[00:07:37] I cannot remember if the bit is that he's a vet who then became their coach or it's just a coach who acts like a hyper intense. Yeah right right. I can't remember which version of it is. It's one of his best performances.

[00:07:51] I remember him taking a I think he takes a shit on a lawn in that movie and there's like a wide shot of Arlie Army with his pants down like sort of smiling and waving as he's taking a shit and seeing that my father and him just saying I can't believe they got him to do this.

[00:08:05] Yeah well it's it's so weird that his career like every time you watch him you it's understood that creatively you've seen Full Metal Jacket.

[00:08:15] That's the you know what I mean like it's like it's such a weird thing where anyone who uses him in a movie is like well you've seen Full Metal Jacket so we're either doing an homage to that or kind of pulling the rug out from that. Yeah exactly.

[00:08:27] But that's part of the weird legacy of this movie. Yes right.

[00:08:31] Every time he's cast it is like I was looking through his his Wikipedia and there's stuff like right like several TV shows using the reveal of oh and our lead character's father is Arlie Army and you understand what that means in shorthand.

[00:08:47] It's like this explains why this guy is such a nervous now. He is dead. Is it fucking is this guy and everyone's like oh the dude from Full Metal Jacket. Right.

[00:08:55] Season five you reveal that he's house's dad and you're like well that's the final piece of the puzzle. You don't even need to write this anymore. There's another one where he played someone's dad.

[00:09:04] That's what I'm sure I was trying to think of this like I'm trying to think because he popped up in so many things over the years. Oh and he's in seven you know. Yes which is great. But that's a really interesting use of him.

[00:09:17] Briscoe County Junior the Janitor's dad right on Scrubs I think. Yes he is. You're right. Yes. And it's like he was tough on him. Yeah or right. Is he again. Is he a prison break. Does he play someone's dad in prison break. No no.

[00:09:36] I'm sorry he plays a prison warden on SpongeBob SquarePants. That's what the whole whole nap of the prison was tattooed on him and no one thought to check. They checked his butt. Check his. They did his tattoo.

[00:09:49] It's a wild career he has and it is a career that's just like well you exist as like a permanent piece of like the tapestry of American pop culture in perpetuity and everyone now hire you to redo that riff on that or subvert that.

[00:10:06] If you watch this movie for the first time now or recently you could like retroactively understand everything about Arlie or you know what I mean. Like it's like watching American Gigolo now and then you're like I see why everyone was obsessed with Rich with him with gear.

[00:10:23] Like it comes to you where you're like oh I never understood why everyone was obsessed with this person. Then you see the movie that makes everyone upset and you're like oh shit yeah I'm on board. Hopkins and Sounds of the Lambs is like a similar thing.

[00:10:36] Not that we just watched it for action but it's so funny you choose that. It's like right. And Jodie Foster even arguably in that movie you watch it you go well this is what I mean Jodie Foster that's like your 70th movie at that point.

[00:10:47] You're like oh of course Anthony Hopkins you get to do whatever the fuck he wants. I'm going to start calling him Sir Anthony Hopkins. But there's also just that thing of like with this too where you're like this character is so parodied.

[00:11:01] He has so many times done the parody himself. You imagine going back and watching the original thing it will be devalued. Right. Instead it's like no it strengthens it.

[00:11:12] Yeah I feel like Star Wars not to activate you fucking dorks but Star Wars suffers from like the parrot the over parodying like when you go back and watch the original trilogy. You're like this is like it's hard not to see a mob instead of a wookie.

[00:11:27] But Full Metal Jacket you don't watch this and go like oh you just do it like this. You're like oh this is the fucking nexus point of the creation of the idea of a drill sergeant in a movie. Yes. This is my thing.

[00:11:40] I just watched a movie at TIFF this year called The Inspection that is an A24 movie. It's coming out this year that's a debut from this guy called Elegance Bratton which is one of the best names I've ever heard. Incredible. Yeah.

[00:11:56] Elegance Bratton and it's him telling his true story of his life. He was kicked out of his house when he was a teenager by his mom for being gay. He joined the Marines and he served in the Marines for years but it's like set only in basic training.

[00:12:09] Right. It's only it's you know it's a drill sergeant movie. It's set in basic and or boot camp whatever you want to call it. And it's a good movie and it does lots of interesting things with being like a gay guy in the 2000s in the Marines.

[00:12:24] But I think it knows because every movie knows that it's like it's everyone knows Full Metal Jacket. Yeah. Like let's not try to mess with that.

[00:12:33] Everyone knows the structure of being in basic training or boot camp in the military and being barked at by a guy with a hat with like a circular brim. Like we just know no one's going to fuck with that.

[00:12:47] But Bo Keem Woodbine plays the drill sergeant and he's good. Love Bo Keem. Good casting and it's a different character. I'm not saying the movie is some Full Metal Jacket ripoff. I'm just saying like I've never seen anyone try to subvert this movie's presentation of that.

[00:13:05] You know because you can't really. No you can't. You can't. And it was like they would just get R. Lee Army to do this again. Like you know to his credit he was not one of those guys who was like look I've already done the definitive.

[00:13:16] I'm not going to try it again. Right. Like you could just pay him and get him to do this again and it would work.

[00:13:22] Not a movie I like particularly but like Hacksaw Ridge is one of the only movies I think to get around this where it's like oh get Vince Vaughn. He's like a different type of motor mouth. He's scary in odd ways.

[00:13:37] He has so much baggage himself as a movie star. It's just inherently different enough from R. Lee Army that you're not saying oh they got the cheap R. Lee Army which I feel like so often you do.

[00:13:48] So often you watch a movie where the drill sergeant shows up and you're like you really weren't willing to pay R. Lee Army the extra forty thousand dollars. Right. Come on. The guy does stuff. He's not hard to book. Right.

[00:14:01] Just to jump to Hacksaw Ridge stay on Hacksaw Ridge for one second. Yeah. My experience with that movie was watching it the whole time going what the fuck is Andrew Garfield doing vocally here. This is insane. Oh my God this movie is a fucking cartoon blah blah blah.

[00:14:14] The whole time I'm bugging out like two hours. They do the classic credits biopic thing where we see real footage of the guy and the real guy sounds crazier than Garfield. And I'm like oh my God. Oh my God. It's true.

[00:14:28] Garfield is like rounding the edges on how crazy this dude sounds. The real guy was a talking stick of corn. Like he genuinely was. Yes. He was like it's true. He was like actual Gomer Pyle like Jim Navers. His voice was insane.

[00:14:44] And I'm going wow actually Garfield brought this character to life in a digestible way now. So thank God they put that. They were like just so you know he wasn't just off the fucking reservation doing this. Take a look. Yeah. I feel like we're forgetting something.

[00:14:59] What are we forgetting? That's major pain. Okay. Because that answers your question David subverting. How to subvert it. Yeah. Uh huh. And do it well. Which your answer is do it to children. Major pain which was of course directed by Nick Castle right. Directed by Michael Myers himself.

[00:15:21] The shape. Yeah the shape himself. I've never seen it but it's Damon Wayans screaming at a bunch of children right. That's the idea. Yes. Okay. What is that genre that it's so recurring in our lives.

[00:15:36] I'm a little bit older than you guys but everyone everyone was like okay they're a crazy action star or total badass. It's like right now they're a nanny. Now they live in the suburbs. Now they're a house cleaner. Now they're a babysitter.

[00:15:49] They just get like it's like let's just let's give one of these alpha dudes a chick's job and watch how fucking funny it is. It's truly one of those things where like twins was Schwarzenegger's highest grossing film up until that point in time.

[00:16:07] And then I think kindergarten cop might have been number two and if it wasn't it was so big and it immediately like expanded his audience base. Like I think there was like that's the thing it was you need one of these. That was the idea right.

[00:16:21] Even if it's not going to be your biggest hit you need that. It was the quantifiable thing of like look at how much bigger Terminator 2 got because now kids like him and now every guy has to go through that.

[00:16:32] There's the point where it's like you start out being a badass then you go back down to the kids and then you make the badass movies that are a little more family friendly. Right. You know the classic Matthew Modine arc. Very similar to that right.

[00:16:47] This is the kind of movie that kids love. Yeah. We're talking about how iconic this movie is how iconic Arlie Ermey's role is all this shit. How iconic D'Onofrio's the pile. Absolutely. Half the movie less. It's 45 minutes.

[00:17:07] I feel bad because I'm coming on this podcast where people just love to hear my really interesting and insightful opinions. And my take on Full Metal Jacket is the first part's the best part and the second part isn't as good. Aka everyone's opinion on Full Metal Jacket.

[00:17:24] I'm not coming on here but it's most of the first part is in my opinion like knife perfect some of the most incredible stuff Kubrick ever did. I think it's amazing. Go on. Talk John.

[00:17:38] This is one of those movies that when you see it I saw it young I was like I was into Clockwork Orange. I got like the Kubrick box set was like the first DVDs I bought and I watched this and I was like I fucking love this movie.

[00:17:54] And then like three years go by I watch it again and you're like oh right they do go to war in the second half of the movie. Like sometimes you remember this movie and you forget about the rest of the movie.

[00:18:06] It all takes place in the barracks in your mind at basic. It's Paris Island. Yeah it's a little bit like Stripes except the difference is I do think the rest of this movie is good.

[00:18:19] Like Stripes is a movie where you don't remember anything that happens after basic training because it's kind of bullshit. It's not good. Yeah and it's a little misogynistic. Every time I watch this I am like the rest of this is better than I remember it being.

[00:18:34] Like that's yes that's the part of the very obvious take we're going to have here is it's like on one hand in arguably the first first 45 minutes are the best part.

[00:18:44] But also the rest of the movie is underrated but also it can never come out from the shadow of the first 45 minutes.

[00:18:50] It's a crazy dynamic to land in in that the second half of the movie isn't as strong as the first half of the movie and is still maybe the strongest representation of war ever recorded on film. You know what I mean?

[00:19:02] Like it's just like one of those experiences where you're like oh man. And like on this rewatch Tiff came home during a post basic training and sat down and she was like God this movie is so fucking good. It's so fucking beautiful.

[00:19:17] And I was like right and you didn't even watch the first so you're not going like oh now we're here. Like you have none of that.

[00:19:24] If you just sat down at the first you know Boku Bucks scene if you sit down at that point you're like fuck this movie is magnificent it's intense and disgusting and magnificent but the first half of the movie prepares you for all that shit too.

[00:19:41] It's a weird thing where if the entire film was one half of the movie it would probably have a better reputation.

[00:19:49] Like even if the films they cut all of the Paris Island stuff out and they added 20 minutes on with Boku Bucks as the starting point as you said Gabriel I think this movie would have a better reputation because it wouldn't be fighting against the idea that it's a disappointment to the standards it sets up for itself.

[00:20:08] I found some quote that like Billy Wilder said that he thought the first 45 minutes were the best movie ever made. I think there's an argument for it like I was watching it again. I threw it on.

[00:20:19] I've seen Full Metal Jacket a few times but I'm like all right time to watch Full Metal Jacket. I put it on and exactly. Yes my steel book and the for the first time I'm really thinking about it because I'm watching for the podcast.

[00:20:31] This is a movie that like my dad had told me all about before I'd even seen it. Like he described killing himself like all of it. Like I think this movie just really buried into his brain and relatable as fuck David. Thank you.

[00:20:49] And the first 20 minutes you don't even see anyone talk to each other. It's just Arlie Ermey yelling at them and then marching in formation. The first time anyone even speaks to each other is Modine finally helping you know Gomer pile D'Onofrio like load his gun.

[00:21:10] And at that point it feels like the greatest act of compassion you have ever seen. Exactly. Exactly. It's so powerful for that very reason. And like I was just thinking about how I love military movies.

[00:21:22] I love war movies like but you know you just get a lot of the sort of like the guys hanging out and one of them's like yeah well hell I'm from I'm from you know South Carolina and this is what I do.

[00:21:32] And the other guy's like oh I'm a nerd and I'm from you know New Hampshire. You know like the little the little sort of privates talking to each other stuff. And like we're just not given anything like that.

[00:21:42] We're not given any humanity because the whole point is that this guy is shaving their humanity away. They're not allowed to be humans. They have to be you know living guns. It's amazing.

[00:21:52] It's amazing and along to establish that but also to get us to be able to differentiate the bald white people in the movie. Yes. He this is like this is corny but it's like an improv opening. He like runs around each character and is like you are Joker.

[00:22:10] You are the funny one. You are smart. You are a cowboy. You are the Texas one. You're the black guy. You're the fat idiot that's going to ruin this for us. And it's like he just runs around and labels everyone.

[00:22:20] And this is talked about a lot but everyone is in focus inside the back. There's no there's no blurriness like it just is focus full focal length. So it's just like everyone is on the same level quote unquote.

[00:22:35] But Arlie Ermey is running around explaining to us who we need to know to watch the rest of the movie. And none of these characters have backstory. There's not a lot of conventional characterization even as the movie goes on.

[00:22:45] So basically especially with this starting group it's like he's telling you what everyone's game is. And the level of characterization you get is like the most obvious joke that the world's biggest asshole would latch onto upon seeing someone and hearing their voice. Right.

[00:23:01] It's like oh you're a gay intellectual because you have like a smart ass answer. Oh you are a giant slow person because it took you a second to answer. Oh you're from Texas so you're a gay cowboy.

[00:23:12] Oh you're black so I have awful things to say to you. You just crystallize it.

[00:23:17] There's like that stand up thing how most stand ups like starting out you know I'd say up until someone has like their first special and has really like built an hour that has been out there in the world.

[00:23:27] Most people open their sets with like I know what you're thinking. Right. This is what I look like. I chose this outfit but I have a joke for it. This is what I sound like. You know. And it's like he's essentially doing that to them.

[00:23:42] It's like I'm going to make the joke so the audience gets on my side before they think it about me and he's doing that to pinpoint characters you need to remember. It's crazy how little we know about everyone. Nothing.

[00:23:56] And then how much it affects you later on in the movie when. Right. And you're like holy shit like you are heartbroken when Cowboy dies. Yeah. I'm like spoiler.

[00:24:07] You are heartbroken when a character who you only know their nickname and haven't even seen for like 20 minutes in the movie but like because you're following Joker and he's looking for him you get like in the same level of attachment.

[00:24:20] And like then you realize oh of course they're totally friends. They had like their drill sergeant and one of their like squad mates die in front of one of them like in a room that the two of them were just cleaning the day before.

[00:24:32] Like there's so much going on with still so little info like we don't even know Joker's real name until you like see if you catch his crew neck sweatshirt at one point. Right.

[00:24:43] And Ben for the sake of this episode we're going to retire retire a bit otherwise it'd just be too much of an editing hassle. We will call him private Joker by name. Oh yeah. No we got a we're not going to do that.

[00:24:54] Yeah it's a it's a different Joker. This this guy actually does not find crime funny. We know we know why he's so serious. We actually have a very good sense.

[00:25:07] Full Metal Jacket Stanley Kubrick's film 1987 based on the novel The Short Timers by Gustav Herr has for Gustav has for this. What do you want to say. This is an 80s movie. This is an 80s movie. Like it's crazy that this movie came out in the late 80s.

[00:25:22] Imagine someone's like we're having an 80s night. You put on full metal jacket like are like oh it's 80s night at the club and you dress like Arlie Ermey or something.

[00:25:33] You're like it's so not indicative of they even like because Kubrick style of course too is not it's not modern in any way. So it feels like when you're watching it with them between the music and the footage and the subject matter you're like this.

[00:25:50] When was this movie fucking made. And then when you realize it came out in 87 you're like I was five. What the fuck was like 20 year olds thinking when this movie came out. That must have been crazy. It is Walt.

[00:26:04] I mean it's in now where you can say David. Well I was just going to talk about like it's this is the time when Vietnam movies are suddenly everywhere. Right.

[00:26:14] Obviously there's the deer hunter and apocalypse now in the late 70s that are sort of the twin like masterpieces. But those are very like big operatic unrealistic movies. But we're in the realm of platoon. Rambo comes platoon. Yeah right.

[00:26:28] And then in 87 you have gardens of stone full metal jacket hamburger hill. Good morning Vietnam. Like you have four that sort of more like this. This is what it was like in Vietnam. I'm kind of Valor casualty is a war that everyone thinks is. Yeah. I'm coming.

[00:26:44] Right casualties of war on least rewatchable movie casualties of war is one of the most upsetting movies ever made. But like that's right. And born on the 4th of July obviously 89 as well.

[00:26:58] Like there's that this whole realm of late 80s movies about Vietnam where they're like OK we're going to depict the war in its utter foolishness and pointlessness and bleakness like you know these are not going to be like what you've seen before.

[00:27:12] And like we haven't really had that for like the Iraq War. I guess we sort of we've had a few sort of major movies about that. Like Jarhead feels like it's very much trying to be the full metal jacket. Yes. Of its generation. Yeah.

[00:27:28] Have you seen on Netflix that there's like five jarheads and they completely abolish the idea of like any like it's just like Jarhead to Marine Revenge. It's just like killing.

[00:27:38] I think we've talked about this before but I think one of them is called Circle of Fire or something like that. Let me look it up. I think it's the whole house. I want Cole Hauser now does a lot of the chart.

[00:27:50] It's just does he really charge Jarhead to field of fire field of fire. Right. And that's then Jarhead three the siege. Uh huh. Was there a jarhead for Jarhead three has Scott Atkins. Okay. Jarhead four has Devon saw.

[00:28:09] I mean Jarhead obviously just a slang term for a soldier you know a Marine. So I guess it's pretty it's a pretty fungible title. You can use it however you like. Jarhead to field of fire. Bokeem would bind.

[00:28:26] I'm sorry I just had I mean the guy works the guy where I could do a good job for you if you ask him to. That is a classic guy who will do a good job no matter what the project. Yeah.

[00:28:36] How far away are we from full metal jacket colon Hartman rising or some ship where like the origin story of Joker's Revenge. What man they should cast fucking Modine in retired bit to fully a do. They should. They should bring all the Jokers together.

[00:28:55] They should do a full metal jacket sequel. They bring back to know for you inexplicably. They're just like he's back. Cyborg. He's the right size. Yeah. Cross over with other Vietnam movies. You know yeah. Apocalypse now. Oh please. Metal Jack. We need a non verse.

[00:29:12] It would be awesome if Joker was on Robin Williams talk show.

[00:29:17] Jumping back to what David said about all these Vietnam movies come out but every one of the ones you mentioned felt like a modern movie when they came out to even though it's taking place like 10 you know 10 plus years ago.

[00:29:31] They always feel they still felt modern like the platoon platoon felt like a modern. This somehow feels like and I think it's because of all the basic training all the Paris Island stuff feels a bit like a documentary like like like it feels more in the moment.

[00:29:49] And I know we're just you know we're talking craft like it's Kubrick as well. Godfather of realism but like he he there's something different about this.

[00:29:59] I mean obviously the tone of Good Morning Vietnam is different but there's something about this movie that all the other movies are like war is hell man and this one just fucking feels does it feels anachronistic I guess is like no it's totally out of time.

[00:30:15] You look at Ebert's review for this movie when it came out and he says it's one of the best looking war movies ever made on sets and stage which is like a real backhanded compliment because then he follows it up by saying it's not enough to compete with the quote unquote.

[00:30:29] Awesome reality of platoon apocalypse now and the deer hunter like a lot of the sentiment at the time even more than the oh the first 45 minutes or the best part when you read reviews from this movie's release is like well the rules have changed.

[00:30:44] We have movies like platoon that feel so visceral and real like the way we're like able to actually depict combat on screen Kubrick doing this on sound stages isn't the same like this movie is not as harrowing. In its viscerality or whatever you know I agree.

[00:31:03] I mean I think again I know I hate being basic about this movie but I do think it's weird that it was shot in London like not even fucking northern England or whatever they just shot it in London. How do you know that David.

[00:31:18] Well two reasons one I did grow up there. I read the dossier as well. Which explains it.

[00:31:24] It's crazy when you see this movie as a young person and don't know that there are parts of Vietnam that are in a jungle like I'm not like yes yes that's fair. We all have one image of it.

[00:31:35] Yeah I'm a grown up now and I understand how countries look and isn't always represented in our movies but at the time just seeing like a city like and it felt so and then that kind of felt like one of those powers of the limitations of wanting to only shoot in London.

[00:31:51] It does thing I mean it's like a stylistic choice but at the time people were sort of dinging him by saying like that's not how it works anymore. We've seen platoon you can't do this now. And he's like I shot fucking 2001 here I think we can handle.

[00:32:06] I showed you Mars here I think we could handle Vietnam. It's funny to your point about this not feeling like an 80s movie it's like he only made two films in the 80s.

[00:32:16] You know one at the top of the decade one at the end it's The Shining and this.

[00:32:20] And he worked within two genres that were running wild in the 80s and the two movies feel so disconnected from all of the trends that were happening in those genres and yet were like big hits.

[00:32:33] Like the fact that The Shining comes out in the same decade as like Friday the 13th Nightmare on Elm Street most of the Halloween franchise you know. Yeah Texas Chainsaw sequels Child's Play like all this shit right.

[00:32:49] Not to mention just like the endless barrage of Stephen King movies in that decade. And as we're saying like Vietnam was like a fertile fucking subgenre in this period. And he's making this movie that feels totally out of time and place with this.

[00:33:04] I think about you know they'll do like studios will will like reissue all of their DVDs for Walmart with like the slipcovers trying to rebrand them in some way. And they'll do like totally totally 80s collection. Right. Do you know what I'm talking about. Mm hmm.

[00:33:20] To like make it seem like a party.

[00:33:21] I just remember seeing one of those ones where it was like Paramount had their like totally 80s collection where they redid the cover art to make it all look like the inside of the Max from say by the Bell or whatever.

[00:33:31] And then including that collection was The Accused. God. Love the 80s. I heart the 80s. It feels like what you're saying Garry. So it's like you can't file this in your mind as an 80s movie. Yeah.

[00:33:45] I forget like when I just looked it up I was like where this fall in his and I was like his second to last movie. Oh my God. This movie is a couple of years. It's on video in the early 90s. Like that's just so crazy to imagine.

[00:34:01] And I was like that was my childhood and it feels insane to. And like Full Metal Jacket was just like in the culture. Like you just knew about it even though it was like the most adult movie ever. You knew about it as like a child like instantly.

[00:34:16] Yeah that you could use it as fucking shorthand and Toy Story. Let me tell you a little context about Full Metal Jacket. Okay please.

[00:34:27] There's seven years in between The Shining and Full Metal Jacket and obviously Kubrick's career slows down a lot which we've talked about like he you know he takes longer to make movies.

[00:34:38] But it isn't just like persnickety ness or laziness or whatever it's or his like you know attention to detail or whatever Kubrick myth you want to run.

[00:34:48] It's that he's exploring tons of stuff that he can't make it you know his ambitions are so massive I feel like that he's trying to you know in the 70s he's trying to make the Napoleon movie happen and it's just such a huge ask.

[00:35:01] And in the 80s he's trying to make artificial intelligence happen. That's sort of his biggest unrealized project. And again he's just running into the technology isn't there yet right like that's that's the sort of big problem with AI which obviously Steven Spielberg eventually makes.

[00:35:19] And then apart from that he just reads books all the fucking time and is waiting for a book to capture his interest. And he reads The Short Timers. I'm assuming nobody's read The Short Timers. I have not read The Short Timers.

[00:35:33] I'm a real cop to have having seen this movie 10 times and on this viewing notice that it's based on a story. So the thing I've never read it it's very short. I should have maybe thought about reading it. I was just like not even 200 pages long.

[00:35:48] It has the exact same structure as this movie. It's three sections. It's like you know boot camp and then journalism. Him is him as a journalist and then the sort of the whole sequence with this with the sniper like.

[00:36:01] And so he's taking the book and obviously he co-wrote the movie with Gustav Hasford who wrote the book. Well there was a lot of fight over that. There's a lot of but he has a credit. He has a credit. He does.

[00:36:16] I think they wanted very badly for it to be obviously based on the book by an additional material and there was an ongoing arbitration fight. Kubrick apparently only met him once.

[00:36:24] But he certainly likes the book and I do like his take on it which is basically like it's not pro war or anti war.

[00:36:35] It seemed only concerned with the way things are which feels like a very Kubrick like something that would appeal to him right where he's like this is trying to present this in all its frightening realism like then we can we can decide what we do with that information.

[00:36:51] Yeah. Like it's a polemical thing. I mean this period of time he was kind of looking to make a Holocaust film and he is such an adapter.

[00:37:01] He never generates his own material that he kind of was constantly on the hunt to try to find the right starting point. And then in that hunt he finds this instead and just shifts over I think that energy to this. Right.

[00:37:15] But we've talked about I mean war is the thing he goes back to most in his career. Goes back to the most. Right. 100 percent. And then he goes back to the other co-writer other listed co-writer.

[00:37:26] He wrote that book Dispatches which is about his life as a war correspondent in Vietnam. That's like a classic of new journalism and that's like another thing that Kubrick wanted to adapt. Right. So he's kind of he's kind of got both those things floating around.

[00:37:41] And when they find the short timers they're like well there's a story here. Right. So why don't we make this the movie. And you can work on it with me because Dispatches obviously does not really have like a narrative to it. It's just it's journalism. Yeah.

[00:37:58] So he sort of absorbs the writer from one piece of material to help him adapt a different piece of material. Herr apparently said to him like don't meet Hasford you're not going to like this guy.

[00:38:05] And Kubrick was like what are you talking about I have to meet him. And then he met him. And then he was like you were right I shouldn't have met him. I don't like that.

[00:38:12] I mean I think I think you're if you're going to say Kubrick I don't know if you're going to like Stanley I don't know if you're going to like this guy. You're going to be right 70 percent of the time. Like just roll the dice. Yeah.

[00:38:23] I think a lot of people get into Kubrick's orbit that he's like now this guy I like. Yeah. He fought for his credit beyond just like additional dialogue or story or what you know he fought for his screenplay credit. He won.

[00:38:35] He says he for the quote from him is a little Canuck friend of mine would say I kicked a butt. I don't know what that's a reference to. Yeah. My hair is reacting is Terrence and Philip. Is that a Terrence and Philip. Yes yes of course.

[00:38:51] No that's what it is. Yes. A little Canadian friend of mine would say very little just a fart noise here. So I said to Stanley shut your fucking face uncle fucker. Hair's reaction is like he deserved the credit. It was not that complicated.

[00:39:05] Like he doesn't seem to beat up about it. So I don't know. Like Hasford seems to have this take of like I had to fight tooth and nail and hair's take is like I don't know I guess so. I don't mind.

[00:39:15] And Kubrick's take is like you know cut to a gravestone because he's dead. So we don't know what he said. It's funny you say that because on this on this watch I was most impressed by the way he was talking.

[00:39:26] It's funny you say that because on this on this watch I was most attracted to or most drawn in by the journalism stuff like the middle chunk.

[00:39:36] And it's not just because of how attractive Lieutenant Lockhart is but like it in the rear with the gear quoted by Starcraft Marines. Yeah. Hell yeah Gabrus. All right. Maybe we played each other on Battle.net sometime in the 90s. Yeah.

[00:39:55] Let me know if you ever went to Uncle Meat Man on Battle.net. I've been playing a surprising choice of username. I've been playing Starcraft 2 for 20 years. I still I just played the campaigns over the pandemic just to stay alive. Oh yeah.

[00:40:13] But I the journalism shit drew me in so much more than previously and that's because in my age since watching this I went from being like a warhead to being like a podcaster to being a podcaster. To being into journalism and having leftist point of view.

[00:40:29] And it's like all of a sudden now I'm like intrigued by Joker's kind of rebellious attitude and like his intellect appeals to me more than like when you're a kid you like Animal Mother because he's like such a badass. Right.

[00:40:44] And you like lose all the confidence and then when you watch it again you're like I can't believe I like that guy. That guy has way too many bullets on his person. Way too many. You don't think he needs that many.

[00:40:56] No I don't know based on how he's going I don't think he has enough based on his behavior. He does shoot them a lot. I'll say that. He's not wasting them. He's not wasting them but he's not wasting them carrying them. Right. He uses them all.

[00:41:12] He does use them. I found the bit on the Hasford Kubrick thing I was looking for. So Michael Herr wrote a book about Kubrick. Dispatches. Kubrick. Oh sure. And this is his. Called My Buddy Stan. No I think it was called Kubrick by her. Yeah.

[00:41:33] I'll just read this verbatim. Hasford was by her own description a scary man. This is a Guardian piece when the book was coming out. Hasford was by her own description a scary man a big haunted marine who Kubrick was determined to meet.

[00:41:49] I advised him against it recalls her. I told Stanley I didn't think they'd get on. Kubrick insisted. Hasford duly came over to Britain and there was a dinner during which Kubrick passed her a note saying I can't deal with this man.

[00:42:00] From then on Hasford was dismissed from the master's presence. I know. Kubrick does just seem like the fussiest little fella sometimes. It's just so funny. He can't even say it he has to pass a note. Stanley this guy's an intense marine you're not going to like him.

[00:42:16] Don't tell me who I'm going to fucking like him. I can fight him over dinner comes over for dinner immediately writes a note. Please get rid of this guy. Did you guys did you guys read the making of Space Odyssey that book.

[00:42:28] It's no we awesome and has a lot of like perspective a lot of perspective on Kubrick.

[00:42:34] It's really fucking you're like you hear a lot of these weird fickle things where he's like well get back in the ape suit you know and like you like guys are like fainted and shit like his energy towards everyone is so.

[00:42:45] And even just hearing interviews like readings snippets of interviews from D'Onofrio and Joker and Modine and all that you're like man it must have been one of those things where if you didn't know in the moment like like you would be like I fucking hate this guy.

[00:42:59] Like it would be so easy to hate Kubrick if you like if you don't have the zoom if you don't have the vision which I wouldn't have had if I was cast in Full Metal Jacket.

[00:43:07] But I think even if you do have the vision like Modine you know who is so much of his life since this movie has been defined by this movie and continue to talk about this movie releasing his diaries on an app. Yes exactly.

[00:43:23] He has that attitude I feel like Malcolm McDowell talks out the same way where it's just like I knew this guy was a genius. I put myself in his hands. I submitted myself to the process. You know. Yeah.

[00:43:34] But even if you do have that perspective I do think it takes a certain kind of person to be able to like detach in that way while also staying invested in your work.

[00:43:44] Even if you go into this being like it's Kubrick he's a genius by day 200 you're probably like I don't fucking care. I don't fucking care.

[00:43:51] There's no you know like the two casting stories on this movie I find really interesting that the sort of almost stories are that he really wanted Anthony Michael Hall to play Joker. Sure yeah. That was his first choice. He saw 16 Candles.

[00:44:06] He was like this guy's incredible actor which I think he's right. I think he's right. I think he's right. I don't with hindsight. I think they crushed it with Modine. I think Modine is a. It's incredible.

[00:44:18] It's one of those things where you wish there just had been a Anthony Michael Hall Kubrick collaboration especially Kubrick did recognize in him that thing and it's like the soft era of Anthony Michael Hall before he over corrects and feels like he needs to be a tough guy to prove that he's not a dark anymore for the remaining 40 years of his career.

[00:44:41] So small but he is like incredible in those Hughes movies and you're like he's good. No one else really kind of got how to use him in that era but there were like eight months of negotiations until it finally broke down and it's always very unclear.

[00:44:57] I mean Anthony Michael Hall does interviews about it. They're like did you ask for too much money. Was it like a creative thing.

[00:45:04] Was it like the length of shoot and he's always kind of like vague about what it was but you can almost imagine just his reps at the time being like Anthony is making like hand over foot being the nerd in these comedies that we can shoot four of a year.

[00:45:21] Yeah. And we've got 12 offers taking us through the mid 80s where it ends with you having six homes. Right. Michael Hall. How do you feel like this guy. Like who knows what comes of it. Yeah. I mean he was like 18 years old as well.

[00:45:38] Like I mean he would have been striking in that movie and his way. The other one is Rico Ross who plays Frost in Aliens was an American actor who went to England because he felt like in America and Hollywood he was only getting offers to play gang members.

[00:45:54] So he like went to England went to drama school and became like an American actor that English productions could use and then mostly became kind of a military guy instead. He got offered a part in this. I don't know which character he was supposed to play.

[00:46:09] I guess would be payback or not payback. Hardball is that was character's name is April. Unfortunately it's not that character.

[00:46:20] The character name I saw was a different one who I don't know if the character was mostly cut out or the role is so small I didn't observe it. I want to say like Cleveland is who he's supposed to play.

[00:46:31] But he got offered the part and then he got offered the part in Aliens. And it was like this coin toss thing for him.

[00:46:40] It came down to Kubrick had an eight week hold on him and there was one week of overlap between Aliens and Full Metal Jacket and they were trying to negotiate the two. And eventually it was just like you're dealing with two different tyrannical control freaks.

[00:46:58] Neither one is going to give an inch to the other one. You have to pick one. He picks aliens and he was like coin coin. Imagine having a coin toss in your life where it's like which iconic film do you want to be a part of.

[00:47:09] Which iconic film directed by someone who is a proven master would you like to be in. Ideally both. A lunatic. It's going to be like an incredibly difficult production.

[00:47:18] But the thing was Kubrick was like we can't give you up a week early but but we need eight weeks. And then he said that when Aliens came out in theaters in 86 Full Metal Jacket was still filming.

[00:47:33] It was one of those things where it was like he thought he could do both maybe. And he went through. It's legendary that like Modine got engaged married pregnant and had their kid and like celebrated the kids first birthday all while shooting Full Metal Jacket.

[00:47:49] It was like two years right. I mean another crazy stat I saw was that Arlie Ermey got in a really bad car accident and couldn't film anything for four and a half months.

[00:47:58] But it happened at the point in production where they had filmed everything but Arlie Ermey's footage. Yeah he got hurt like after they shot Vietnam. It massively delayed production. Yes. I mean he he also yeah it's crazy that he survived that apparently like he should have died.

[00:48:19] He kept himself alive like flashing brights in the Jeep like in the yes the account I read he just like. Yes. Over turned over on the side of the road broken ribs and broken arm or whatever.

[00:48:30] And he's just flashing the brights on his car trying to stay away on the Jeep staying away. Broken ribs puncturing organs. Yeah yeah. In Epping Forest which is not like a place that anyone is in in the night time. Well what the fuck was he doing out there.

[00:48:44] We don't even have to get into that. I think you're about to say that's why he doesn't move his arm in the movie. Yeah there's like a whole chunk where he's not moving one of his arms.

[00:48:52] And I mean it plays into the character because he doesn't really move a lot like without the exception of walking and jog. Man talk about this long ass production.

[00:49:02] What if you're not Arliss Howard Matthew Modine or Vincent D'Onofrio you are fucking guy number 10 who's just got to do push ups and jog. I think that's basically what Rico Ross's thing was going to be. I mean my understanding is Rico Ross auditioned for like Drake in Aliens.

[00:49:23] And then they cast the other guy and they were like we'd like you to play one of the Marines. And he's like I got an offer from Kubrick and Cameron was like I will promise you have dialogue in this. Right.

[00:49:36] He's like I will create frost I will give you the Arturian Poon Tang joke. I will give you beats. I assure you you will not just be the guy in the background. But yeah these guys just had to fucking be here for 18 months or whatever.

[00:49:49] Well but also come on I mean like just think about how he hasn't made a movie in seven years. Yeah. And it's like hey Stanley Kubrick is making a war movie. It's like oh shit a war movie.

[00:50:00] He's made war movies before and he needs like every you know young actor below the age of 28 to be like everyone must have wanted a full metal jacket right.

[00:50:12] It must be one of those things where it's like holy shit you know you only get so many bites at that Apple. This was an early case of letting people submit auditions through videotape like having a pretty open audition because they needed young people and they got 3000 submissions.

[00:50:28] Which yeah this created one of my favorite early viral videos is that dude and I'll send it to you guys if you haven't seen it or don't remember it.

[00:50:36] It's a dude's audition tape for full metal jacket and he's like at a Sears like with a ladder and his leg is up on. He's like hello Mr. Kubrick.

[00:50:49] It's like how it begins and then he like talks about all his acting training and it's in it's like pure like unsheathed like actor ego stuff. And it was just I remember watching it in like 07 and everyone just like cackling about it. So I'll track it down.

[00:51:05] Hello Mr. Kubrick. Yeah you also have to think like at this point the Leon Vitaly stuff has sort of already happened so any young actor is viewing this partially as like this is an education you know. Right.

[00:51:21] Like it's not just that I want this opportunity as an actor I understand that what I'm signing up for here is the idea of like studying under this guy. Leon Vitaly is like a filmmaker or whatever that documentary is about. Yeah film worker. Film worker.

[00:51:35] Ah I fucking love that. That was so good. Who plays like Barry Lyndon's stepson and was like a young actor who then gave up his entire acting career to be Stanley Kubrick's executive assistant for the rest of his life.

[00:51:49] You know was just like I'm so enamored of this man's process. I just want to serve him.

[00:51:52] This man that's a fucking the sign of a true artist like I completely switched mediums to just like right carrier just to be around talent just to be around genius like it's so fucking crazy. Right.

[00:52:03] I think my dean talks about this movie that way too not that he wasn't like in it as an actor but that it was like well the main thing was me studying Stanley Kubrick for two years. Right. So fucking cool. Yeah it's probably pretty cool.

[00:52:16] I mean probably good time. I don't know. I mean I have a lot of stories. I mean you know he's sitting there he's playing chess he's still Stanley Kubrick. He's the same you know grumpy genius.

[00:52:27] Griffin do you think it was a union like a SAG movie because that's this is what I was thinking the whole time about it going over is like yeah he's getting a fucking weekly rate for two years is sad.

[00:52:38] And I get a lot of these people have other movement in their career. But for me if I accidentally got locked off in London for two years working on a war movie I think it would be the best thing that's happened to my career.

[00:52:51] Oh I mean great shape. I mean running around a lot of job. You know because I know that's the reason that Lucas kept filming in London for as long as he could. He probably does not have to abide by the unions.

[00:53:05] I just know people were like crazy underpaid on the Star Wars movies up through like Phantom Menace and that the unions are more fungible there at least were at this point in time. Yoda was living out of his car. Yeah crazy.

[00:53:21] I think there's a difference between if like someone comes to you and they're like you booked a movie.

[00:53:26] You are guaranteed two years of work and you're like hell yeah here we go steady paycheck versus like the Rico Ross story is so telling that they're like oh we'll shoot you out next. And then you're like I'm going to eat weeks.

[00:53:37] You know that no one here thought they were signing up for this long.

[00:53:41] And if you're saying someone's gonna be shot out eight weeks that is there's two halves to the movie that are or three parts of the movie where it's three fully different casts like Joker jumps around first and third has Joker and cowboy.

[00:53:55] The middle one is Joker and Rafterman. The third one Rafterman's in two and three. But you're right it mostly switches up. So if you were like if you're stuck there for two years and you're in one third of the movie that's all crazy. Yeah.

[00:54:10] And it's like he's already had several movies run this long and yet he by all accounts is still going into it being like no we're gonna do like a normal shoot. None of that Kubrick shit. This war movie of mine. OK let me give you more context here.

[00:54:26] I like this quote I like Kubrick talking. You can hear kind of the exasperated sigh.

[00:54:30] If I'm forced to suggest something about the deeper meaning of the story I would have to say that it has a lot to do with the young gang idea of the duality of man altruism and cooperation on one hand aggression and xenophobia on the other.

[00:54:45] So I guess this is his thing he's like I don't want to make a war movie about good and evil. I want to make it about good and evil right in the same person right rather than like the interplay between the two. Yeah.

[00:54:59] The line when whoever I think it's Eightball who Animal Mother is very racist towards the entire section of that movie but Eightball is the one who defends Animal Mother to Joker and says when shit hits the fan that's the guy you want.

[00:55:16] And that's like a weird duality of man moment too.

[00:55:20] It's like this guy oh yeah legendary piece of shit actually treats me personally awful but I now need to hold two thoughts about this person in my head because he is good and may be the reason I stay alive and does later try to save him to the detriment of the rest of his platoon.

[00:55:36] But there is something about like every single person like even Pyle is bad.

[00:55:43] Everyone hates him and he's bad at everything except shooting and like every like and so all of a sudden Arlene all sudden Drill Sergeant's like hey okay this you know maybe there's a side of this guy I like and we see that so frequently throughout and like obviously there's a straight up monologue about the young duality of man which yes which fucking rules as well just randomly dropped in the middle of the movie.

[00:56:05] A fucking intense backdrop of like bodies under lie and fucking the monologue about the theme of the movie happening in the foreground fucking great moment which I never really hit hit me before I always thought the piece thing was funny and now on this viewing I'm like fuck that's heavy.

[00:56:27] We just recorded the episode this week and I know Gabriel you've seen this movie as well so I mean I'm just putting these two films together because I've seen them within the same seven days but it's the thing that like woman King goes into a lot as well of like how much you have to break your brain to survive in an environment like this right.

[00:56:50] Like you know the pile suicide is like shocking but then it's almost more shocking that more people don't kill themselves in this environment the way this film. Like this.

[00:57:05] Like thriving in this environment is a weird human human failure as well like it's like there's something like if you did well in Paris Island that's like a bad sign as much as killing yourself.

[00:57:18] Joker is such a fascinating character like Joker is clearly smart right and he is clearly.

[00:57:25] An intellectual and we don't know that because he says anything in the first chunk of the movie except for that he doesn't believe in God right except for that moment but like you just know it because it's Matthew Modine and you can just tell and he seems to be able to let the basic you know basic training just kind of pass through him like.

[00:57:44] For whatever reason like he's just turning off his brain and he's just like OK fine I'll just do whatever this guy tells me to do and emerge on the other side of a capable journalist of sorts like and then that's how he's perceiving Vietnam for so much of it he's just sort of like yeah I don't know this is I don't think this is good but also I'm unmoved by it in a weird way.

[00:58:06] I assume it's very powerful to watch he got drafted he's like there against his will a lot of people assumes they're against their will so.

[00:58:15] I am choosing to be a journalist is also like I am not going to die on the front lines if I can prevent it. But he's not like oh my God this is horrible he's watching it just somewhat dispassionately for most of the movie.

[00:58:29] Having the peace sign button and born to kill on the helmet you know and the more he's press on the more he's like I don't know.

[00:58:36] I mean what you're saying give or just like animal mother is the example of someone who is built to succeed within this system and the take is bad. This guy's terrifying.

[00:58:46] Also the guy he's most racist to is like I mean in this environment he kind of needs to be my best friend. One of my favorite war movies is Black Hawk Down. Same.

[00:58:58] Yes incredible movie I've seen a million times and Eric Bonner's character is sort of similar where everyone's like look that guy freaks me out but he's very helpful when a million people are shooting guns because he seems to be really suited to that atmosphere.

[00:59:15] That is when that guy locks the fuck down and starts doing stuff that I'm too afraid to do. What's the thing they say when they're worried about the guys being mentally unbalanced.

[00:59:25] Class eight or whatever they say you talking about the guy who jerks off too much but they say this they have the story about the guy who jerks off 10 times a day. His name hand job.

[00:59:35] This is about a pile to though early on in the movie when he's like I caught him talking to his gun right. Right. The thing of like how funny it is to frame anyone as like oh this guy might section eight. OK.

[00:59:49] So it's both public housing and psychiatric discharge in the Marines but yeah they say sorry. No it is that thing where you're just like well but the entire exercise of boot camp is essentially trying to break people's brains right.

[01:00:03] Sure we are going to remove your personhood and to rebuild them. We build them in what we need in a soldier.

[01:00:11] Right. And then the people who acquit themselves best in this environment are the people who seem to be perhaps a little deranged going into it that their temperament is already a better fit to this where there's. Yeah well it's chicken or egg like like what.

[01:00:28] Like if that person was just drafted into the Peace Corps would they end up being like you know close to God like God. You know it's just funny to be like they did the Peace Corps the same way though that'd be funny.

[01:00:38] They had the early army screams at you. You bag it's you're going to build houses all over the world.

[01:00:45] I've said I've said before and I don't know anything about the actual but there should be like a militant like a non like a non military service you could join.

[01:00:55] Yeah that has all the same perks as the military but you go like they send you to Wyoming to help put solar panels in or whatever and it's service you get like some you get some home loan benefits you get some college pay.

[01:01:08] You get some payoff benefits it's like it's a way for poor people to get out without having to murder on behalf of imperialism. That's the thing we're really looking for yeah.

[01:01:17] It's like that's the shit that needs to come around is that you get set to like you know like all right now everyone we're going to Bozeman and we're gonna get water to the native people you know like.

[01:01:28] I just find it funny that it's like the section 8 threat looming of like this guy jerks off too much he might be a problem piles talking to his gun and all mother that's a good soldier and you're like no you've like made him the right kind of crazy versus the kind of crazy that scares them you know.

[01:01:47] The apparently the animal mother back story is that he was like a criminal who got like it's not in the movie but he's a criminal who got arrested and was like jail or classic jailer jailer army choice yes yeah.

[01:02:02] And this is a big thing in the inspection which is just on my mind because I just saw it but you know the way you can't say I you have to say this marine right sure you you're literally not allowed to have be individualistic.

[01:02:14] You know this this marine needs information is how you ask a question essentially which I love what a crazy thing to train people to shoot guns at other people.

[01:02:26] There's the moment that I find so fascinating where I forget what the thing is that they're fighting over but where our early army calls Modine out and Modine refuses to like change his opinion and says like Sir I think you'll respect this marine.

[01:02:41] Do you believe in God oh yeah it's a yes it's yes yes yes.

[01:02:46] This marine believes that the drill sergeant will be unhappy with whatever answer for a cowardice of changing the answer whatever like and that's when he gets promoted to squad leader right and that's the thing where army does not warm up at all but it's the only time he respects anyone the entire movie where he has to call over other guys and go like you just been demoted I think this guy's a piece of shit but he's got fucking integrity.

[01:03:08] One other one other time we see the drill sergeant supportive and it's when pile is hitting targets.

[01:03:17] It's the only other which is very distinctive in that he's a good job yeah it's the only two times it's like when he's like oh this big dumb idiot I have I'm saddled with at least could maybe be a killer and I'm happy for that unbeknownst to who he may end up be killing in the next couple of days.

[01:03:34] I mean just dynamics of that that Joker or me scene are so fascinating to me because it's like this entire operation is designed to knock all individuality out of these fucking guys right and to just like turn them into weapons this thing we talked about a lot in the woman king episode where it's just like your job is just to hone every single part of your being into being the most efficient weapon possible.

[01:03:59] And yet it's like. Modine is displaying the kind of intelligence he knows is a value within a battlefield.

[01:04:09] Yeah he can't actively encourage it right but it's like oh this guy has some level of strategic thinking that is good even though he's going against what I'm asking him to do.

[01:04:22] But he's not exactly going against what the drill sergeant taught him he's playing within the rules of the Marines but keeping his opinion so that's like a very specific needle thread that he does that I don't think in that moment the drill sergeant Ernie is even real like didn't think of that as a possible answer.

[01:04:41] Oh fuck. Okay tough guy you're right. Hey and he's like you know like you got me. I'm the Sphinx you be my logic puzzle. Exactly. This guy's got upper management potential like that's essentially what he's recognizing.

[01:04:55] So Kubrick considered a number of actors to play gunner Sergeant Hartman Robert De Niro which is interesting to imagine Ed Harris who probably would be good.

[01:05:07] Yes but we had just decided to take a year off of acting because he had made a little film called The Abyss which broke his brain into a million pieces. Life's a business. Exactly.

[01:05:19] Earlier we had been a technical advisor in Apocalypse Now Purple Hearts Boys and Company see a lot of these Vietnam movies he was working at a factory as a quality controller I'm sure he was very chill.

[01:05:29] He was like a very fun co-worker and he was brought along to interviews with these British soldiers and he the stuff he would scream in their faces. Kubrick was like all right you yeah you should.

[01:05:45] Apparently he initially thought he wouldn't be vicious enough but then realized no obviously this guy is perfect and would write down everything he said because all the insults came right from him all these like.

[01:05:58] Elaborate essay length sort of you know treatises on what a piece of shit somebody was like it's it is like improv like you guys are saying like it's like this incredible you know there's no way he's writing this stuff down right.

[01:06:12] He just has some sort of ability to generate but that's really not having been said there is the misconception that his monologues in this movie are improvised which belies like that's not how some production works.

[01:06:22] They would just be like Arlie give us a run and like why Vitaly would be there like a fucking.

[01:06:29] And like riffing and rehearse like it's rehearsals and it's like just go and also I think a lot of it was in like test foot there's like this legend that there's this video of Arlie Ermey that Kubrick saw of him rattling off all these like insults and scream while being like pelted with tennis balls and oranges and never and never breaking.

[01:06:50] And then something to the effect of like someone transcribed it and it's three minutes of video but it's like 70 pages of writing or like there's like all these legends of like what he the output he was putting out and you believe it.

[01:07:02] I also you saying it Griffin I had never heard that but I believe if you look at Arlie Ermey or interact with him when he's not fully in Hartman mode you're going. I don't know this guy seems kind of like cute and nice right.

[01:07:14] Gaber's that story is even wilder than what you heard they hired first this guy Tim Colceri who ends up playing the door gunner in this movie to get some as much get some right that that line is very chilling.

[01:07:28] Yeah so he was supposed to play Hartman right and Arlie Ermey was mostly supposed to be a technical consultant he starts doing all these riffs they're like fuck we should just do this but his whole fear was that he was going to like clam up on camera aside for not being vicious enough it's like well basic the fact that you have this background doesn't mean it will play.

[01:07:48] Screen right you know things don't translate so like they would do these sessions were Liam Vitale was the one who was pelting him with oranges or they be like we're going to film you you have to do all your dialogue while playing soccer.

[01:08:01] Essentially say the one I heard about the oranges thing was that Liam Vitale was pelting him with our oranges and he had to catch each one and throw it back without missing a word of his dialogue.

[01:08:10] And if he either dropped an orange or fucked up a line they had to start over again from the beginning and Kubrick was like he can't shoot until he's able to do the whole thing perfectly like you want to make sure this guy who didn't have a lot of on camera experience would not get not only stage fright but would be able to like withstand the technical demands of the thing so they just made him run his dialogue while playing sports and shit.

[01:08:37] I allegedly call Sari the door gunner guy who was maybe going to play Hartman at first spent like six weeks getting off book on all the crazy monologues had his role change.

[01:08:48] I mean look at least they give him like a good moment like he has an iconic moment in the film it is funny to imagine you hear all these stories of like Cooper calling cut and being like Arlie what's what is a reach around.

[01:09:05] And then Arlie explaining it and then go back going good leave that out. But also like the early army stuff is apparently like two three takes like this was where Kubrick was like he was so precise. Yes we actually didn't have to do it the normal amount.

[01:09:23] This is a Cooper quote that I like acting is amazing part crazy part magical gift and actors power rests in the ability to create emotion himself and that's in the audience the ability to cry at the clock of a clapboard is a strange and rare talent.

[01:09:36] Of course drill instructors can do it naturally because they're performers and liars can do it because lying is important to the liar.

[01:09:44] But basically he was just like you know I guess realize like you are an actor already like I hadn't considered this but what you're doing is acting and army basically said like what he thought was realistic about full metal jacket which is what I just remarked on actually I didn't put this together is that no one's talking.

[01:10:04] Everyone is just silent and he says most films about boot camp have too much gabbing that's why they're unreal. Right because they wouldn't be like they would be scared got to be quiet.

[01:10:15] The other guy's fucking talking he's in charge of you shut up don't speak he will cram you into your locker and that's our introduction to Joker private you know like we get like we like Joker chatting is what we learn the rule like we learn the rules of like he's the weird one he's the intellectual he's making a wisecrack here and early army is about to kill him for it.

[01:10:37] It becomes Joker in that's the other thing about this movie this movie fucking starts. Yeah. Just fucking starts dude I paused it at one minute and 21 seconds you're in the barracks. And he's calling a maggot.

[01:10:55] Yes at 19 like at like nine seconds their heads are being shaved it's like MGM into head shaving it with that. I was you're just fucking plowed into it sorry go David.

[01:11:07] I was watching this with friend of the show Emma Stefanski and we were just like wouldn't that be satisfying to be the guy who shaves everyone's head it just looks satisfying to just get all the hair off doesn't it right.

[01:11:19] It seemed good to activate some OCD and the floor is a little gross. Yeah. I guess you need another guy to deal with the floor. You want to you want to get that.

[01:11:31] But the thing I read is that obviously when they were filming they had to shave the guy's heads every single day like you shave it again every single day for continuity.

[01:11:42] The opening of all of their heads being shaved was shot like four months after they thought they had wrapped. He brought them back and was like I need a new opening. So everyone had grown their hair out and it's that's allegedly why everyone is miserable. Exactly. It's sales.

[01:12:01] They look really sad because they genuinely thought they were out of this thing. They thought they were finally done and he's like one last reshoot. Oh God what a fucking monster.

[01:12:09] So Griff obviously earlier me was not nominated for an Oscar for I was just about to say yeah a surprising snub.

[01:12:17] Now I have two things to say about it one we're going to talk about that category briefly I just want to talk because it is loaded as fuck. OK OK can see why he didn't get the nomination.

[01:12:26] Yeah too and I'm think I hadn't thought about this Lou Gossett Jr. had just won an Oscar a couple of years. Oh gentlemen gentlemen. So maybe it was kind of like a drill sergeant.

[01:12:37] We've seen that even though obviously this is a more realistic you know this is not like a bigger character. Do you want to know who the five nominees were Griffin. Yeah I just want to say two other points there.

[01:12:48] One I think there was a little bit of D'Onofrio or me split. I mean Ernie got a golden glove nomination and I think Ernie got a Golden Globe. And he got I was looking at this here hold on.

[01:12:57] He won a critics award but D'Onofrio won a different one. Ernie won Boston Society of Film Critics. Sure. And then I'm going to not for it was nominated by New York. Sure.

[01:13:13] But there's also just the thing I feel like actors are at a real disadvantage if their part is front loaded in a movie. Like if you look at supporting winners very often they are people who end the film more than they are.

[01:13:27] People who are at the opening section. This is one of the 10 most iconic screen performances in history. I agree. Right. Yeah it's one of those situations where like it's no one could know at the time that this how iconic this role. You know what I mean.

[01:13:44] But if you're like acting wise you're like oh this guy's just screaming at people and it's the first half of the movie. And he doesn't have a clip. He doesn't have an Oscar clip. Sure. And also it's like it was his job. So like he's just being himself.

[01:13:58] It's also just odd to me because I feel like in the 80s I mean obviously there are wins like Hayeng S. Nagor for like The Killing Fields. You know where it's like oh this guy wasn't even really an actor.

[01:14:09] And there are also things like you know like Round Midnight and like Baryshnikov getting nominated and stuff like that where it's like sometimes you have someone who's acting isn't their main thing. But there's this incredible film document of their work. Right and it's a fun nom.

[01:14:26] I like those noms. They're usually like fun. But here are the five. Okay give me the five. The Oscar went to Sean Connery for The Untouchables. A sort of combo career win and big meaty role right. Just like a Dago to bring a knife to a gunfight. Sorry.

[01:14:44] Gotta do that. The one slur I'm allowed to do. And then you've got Griffin. I want it is a it is category fraud but one of your favorite performances ever. I would say Albert Brooks and broadcast news. Oh yeah.

[01:15:02] I disagree on it being category fraud maybe but that's a tough one. Well I'm not sure how I feel. It's sort of it's a you know it's kind of a three lead movie. He's sort of a lead sort of supporting. It's one of those things.

[01:15:14] The part that's weird is that he's supporting and Hurt is lead. You feel like either they're both leader or they're both supporting. But exactly. Obviously for politics sake. Sure they put the you know Marquis Idol as the lead and him as the supporting actor anyway.

[01:15:30] Certainly deserves a nomination. Then you have Vincent Gardinia in Moonstruck. Now this is maybe the most vulnerable of these five picture but your favorite. I love that performance. And he's also kind of there for like all the fucking guys in Moonstruck. Danny Ayala John Mahoney. Yeah.

[01:15:51] Nicholas Cage is kind of lead obviously but like you know there's just a lot of big watery eyed Italian guys in that movie who we love. Right. Sure. You're saying he's he's nominated on behalf of the cast. Yes. The over 50 cast. Yeah.

[01:16:09] And they're both doing their first nomination. So Denzel Washington and Cry Freedom and Morgan Freeman in Street Smart. Huh. Yeah. You know what I mean like where it's like those actors actually both went on to do better work. Those are both good performances.

[01:16:22] But like at the time it's like well holy welcome to the club nominations. Yeah right. Right. And the Golden Globes are very different. It's Connery and Morgan Freeman but then they have Richard Dreyfuss in Nuts. Oh boy. And then they have Richard Dreyfuss in Square Dance.

[01:16:39] And then R. Lee Ermey. You know so for a bunch four of the movies you've mentioned in the last minute I have not even heard of like which have you not heard of. Cry Freedom the one Morgan Freeman was nominated for Street Smart.

[01:16:53] And that was the last one you just said it was Square Square Dance Square Dance. Yeah. Well so so Nuts is the movie where Barbara Streisand goes nuts. It's got a great poster. It does. She looks real nuts. I gotta tell you.

[01:17:13] I think it's a movie about her trying to be declared mentally incompetent in some kind of murder trial. It's like a very serious movie.

[01:17:19] Street Smart is this like Christopher Reeve goes he's a reporter who goes undercover in like the world of hustling and Morgan Freeman plays a pimp called Fast Black Smalls who's like taking a dump. And he's like getting him around Times Square in the 80s.

[01:17:37] And obviously like he's the thing that is good about that movie I think it's a Jerry Shattsburg cry freedom and Street Smart both sort of have that thing of like here's a vehicle for a beloved leading man and then the supporting guy just completely steals the movie.

[01:17:50] Right. Like Denzel stealing cry freedom from Kevin Kline. And like that was supposed to be Christopher Reeve doing like I'm going to go a little darker I'm going to move away from Superman. Everyone was like we only want to talk about Morgan Freeman.

[01:18:02] No one is paying attention to what you're doing in this movie. Now I have never seen Square Dance. It is from Daniel Petrie who directed a zillion movies like back in the day. But I don't really know anything about it. I think it's set in Texas.

[01:18:15] Jason Robards Jane Alexander coming of age drama. I think I think Rory sorry Rob Lowe plays a character called Rory who I think like has an intellectual disability. Great. So I'm not sure how that plays today.

[01:18:31] But I could see that being the kind of thing where in the 80s they were like oh good job very brave performance or whatever. Maybe it's good but I doubt my guess is no. Yeah. And so that's the vibe.

[01:18:44] Yeah. But it's that's you know so it's kind of it's it's it is a stacked year but early army is good in this movie as is as you say Griff Vincent to know for you. Yeah. I'd say it's pretty great.

[01:18:56] I think they might have split. I think the first the first half of the movie. Like I was thinking about Mark Rylance Bridge of Spies right. Like an incredible performance and similarly a thing where he just kind of owns the first 45 minutes of the movie.

[01:19:10] I'm like I don't know if it should have been well for that one. Well I will fight I will fight that. I think that should have been Stallone. The Stallone performance in Creed is incredible.

[01:19:19] But my point is arguably one of his only good ones in his entire career. We could have definitely just been hooked him up at that. He wouldn't be doing Samaritan now.

[01:19:29] But but if Rylance doesn't come back at the end of Bridges buys I don't know if he wins the Oscar. You know what I'm saying. Like the fact that he comes back at the end for like five minutes after being missing for like an hour.

[01:19:39] You're right. He gets the one knockout punch at the end. Right. Just so you don't forget about it. You don't forget. I get that. It's not like you think Ernie should come back in this movie. You guys are good now. Yeah. Great job.

[01:19:51] He showed up in the clouds and just started yelling. I would rule. I've whipped heaven into shape. St. Peter's a maggot. That would be good. That would be good. You know what's a funny use of early.

[01:20:09] I mean it's what we're talking about but he plays the ghost version of this and the frighteners. That's funny. Yes that's right. He plays like spooky ghost real search. We should do Peter Jackson. I want to rewatch the frighteners.

[01:20:22] I haven't seen that since I was like 12 years. Yeah. Ripped. Yeah. I remember it ripping Vincent D'Onofrio as we said he was a bouncer right at the Hard Rock Cafe. I think my favorite fact I've been dying to throw that out. But yeah sorry Ben. Sorry.

[01:20:38] Yeah. Sorry Ben. Sorry. And he taped the audition himself and mailed it to all the way to Stanley in England and then put on something like 70 pounds. Right. Like he put on an incredible amount of weight. Modine was the one who tipped him off. They were buddies. Yes.

[01:20:58] And and Modine had already gotten the part and was like you really should get your name in the mix for this.

[01:21:03] And yeah I mean it's one of these things that's like hard to verify but it has long stood as like the claim of the most weight an actor has gained for a role.

[01:21:16] Sure. There was sort of the victory lap of like he gained 10 more pounds than De Niro in Raging Bull. It also speaks to just like he's got a very different body type.

[01:21:25] You know I mean D'Onofrio is like is like seven inches taller than De Niro or something crazy like that. Yes. De Niro is very short. It lends Pyle's size in this movie.

[01:21:37] I really like I was saying earlier I got really connected to the journalism section in the middle because I felt the most seen like I was like oh this would be like my energy there.

[01:21:47] But the fucking Pyle his size makes him so sympathetic and scary at the same time. And the shaved head. Yeah.

[01:21:57] Yeah. It's like all together he has this giant evil baby look which just works so powerfully for the role of Lawrence or of Pyle where you're like you're like I want to help this guy but also I don't want this guy anywhere fucking near me.

[01:22:15] De Niro talks about he said that when he was filming this movie for whatever 16 years of his life where he had to maintain this look that that people would talk to him more slowly.

[01:22:27] Right. I believe it that just with this size and this shaved head and when he still got the sort of baby face thing there is that odd quality of something about him seeming simultaneously very very innocent and deeply cursed and deranged at the same time.

[01:22:43] It's also wild to be like when does Adventures in Babysitting come out. Hmm. Adventures in Babysitting is 1987. Same year. OK. So same year as this. Who knows. You know probably shot two years later or whatever. Right. Yeah.

[01:22:59] But for those who have not seen it or have not seen it recently the bit in Adventures of Babysitting is he is like a guy who works at a parking lot.

[01:23:07] But the little girl in that movie is obsessed with Thor Marvel's Thor and she thinks he looks like Thor. And it's it's D'Onofrio as like presented as the ultimate beefcake. Here is like a golden god D'Onofrio with long blonde hair ripped.

[01:23:23] It's it's wild how fundamentally different he feels in these two films and it's not just a difference of 70 pounds. It's like his aura is different.

[01:23:33] Yeah. Fuck. He's really a great act. Like this is one of those movies. One of those moments I think I talk about every time I'm on this podcast and I think I even already said it this time.

[01:23:45] This one of those movies where you're like that's why this guy worked forever. You know what I mean. Like you're like yeah he does some great work down the road too but nothing that you're like.

[01:23:53] Men in Black. Yeah Men in Black is maybe his second best role behind Pyle. It's you know like when you're growing up you're like this guy's in everything and he's just like fine.

[01:24:04] And then when you're like oh I see like I always think about that the Sopranos will do that to you or The Wire will do that to you when you like rewatch those shows you're like now I know why everyone likes this guy.

[01:24:15] He like did this cool thing. Like if you're coming on to someone's career late and then catch one of their early roles it really explains everything to you.

[01:24:23] Absolutely. I mean the thing is like D'Onofrio is has done a tremendous amount of great work over decades as we've said but this is truly one of those lifetime past performances.

[01:24:33] And you even feel it where it's like he's gone through varying levels of like bankability but he never stops working because it's just like well everyone knows he's got this. And isn't this insane Ben. I just see the picture.

[01:24:45] Right. Damn. Yeah. But like I'm really surprising. You just don't think that D'Onofrio could be positioned in the same category as Chris Hemsworth. But you're like he was essentially the first guy to play Thor.

[01:25:00] He's so statuesque you know he's so tall. I guess that's that's what he's working with. Yeah. And you forget because I forget personally because I just watched Full Metal Jacket two nights ago but you forget that he is like a chiseled leading man jawline.

[01:25:18] Yeah. In the like and in David's background it's most apparent the open mouth pile face not the thing not the crazy Kubrick face which he also succeeds at greatly but the open mouth big dumb baby face that's in the has on is unreal. It's like to live like yes.

[01:25:37] And like his eyes are just dead. I you know the whole movie it's that thing where you're talking to someone and you can't figure out if they understand what you're saying or not. Just his introduction with Ernie trying to get him to stop smiling and he cannot.

[01:25:51] It's genuinely really funny. You immediately start giggling because you understand the feeling of like the more this guy screams at me to stop laughing the funnier it would get.

[01:26:03] God. You also would be inescapable. We were asked to leave Easter Sunday mass one time because me and my brothers could not. My dad my dad wasn't there the real disciplinary and my mom was there and my littlest brother farted and the three of us could not stop laughing about it like other people.

[01:26:20] And like we're in church. So it's even harder not to not laugh. You know what I mean. Like it's that same energy. And my mom's going knock it off. And then like an old lady's coming over and it's like could you please have your boys be quiet. And we're like well if Jason wouldn't have farted like we can't stop that night.

[01:26:38] My dad gets home from work at midnight. This is like too dramatic for real life but like we all have to get up and stand in the living room like drill sergeant style and get yelled at by my dad because he's an angry alcoholic and the punishment guy.

[01:26:53] But he's doing that and me and my brothers are locked exactly back into we can't laugh. And now it's even more scary. And it's like twice in one day we have to live the whole like you're trying to lock it up and it's impossible. So I relate hard to pile in that moment and not just because I'm fat and soft.

[01:27:12] You have to imagine that like if you're seeing this in a theater as a new release the audience is laughing up until that point. Right. Like yeah he's doing is so over the top. So extreme so relentless that like the whole audience is cackling uncomfortably.

[01:27:28] But when you cut to D'Onofrio and he's laughing now he's the first person on screen who also recognizes the absurdity of this. It feels like cathartic like it not only like I understand that's what I would be doing in this situation but it's like this is what I'm doing now watching this.

[01:27:44] How is everyone else able to maintain their composure. And then there's the tension of like even when he's being choked he can't stop. You know it's like yes it's impossible for him to stop.

[01:27:55] And I do love that Ermie is like I'm not going to choke you. You're going to choke yourself on me so I am not culpable for what is happening. It's great. Right.

[01:28:04] Right. The shift of choke yourself reaches for his hands. You fucking idiot. Don't touch me. My hands. Then he reaches for Ermie's hands. He's like don't fucking pull my arms towards you. No you will. You will get down. Yes yes.

[01:28:21] You will do all the work. The bag of oranges thing is like so brutal. You know it's just because as you said you have this moment of compassion between a pile and Joker and then just that hazing moment.

[01:28:37] You mean the soap party. Oh yeah. Sorry. So yeah. Yes. Blanket. They call it a blanket party. Right. Yeah. Oranges are famously the ones that if in a towel wouldn't leave a bruise. I know that. That's why I assumed.

[01:28:50] I don't think they have a lot of oranges on hand. Well Liam Vitale was fucking throwing them at our army. They're all smashed. They're all on the floor. Well let's use them all. Exactly. You fucked up. Yeah. That sequence hit me so fucking hard on this. Yeah. Horrible.

[01:29:05] Like his his acting of being in pain after the fact. And like this whole time you're kind of viewing pile as a baby in the pity way and the like annoying way of like this.

[01:29:17] And then when he's like literally in his underwear on top of a bunk bed. Yeah. Literally crying like a baby. And you're like oh my fucking God. Like he's been dehumanized like back to zero. You know what I mean. Like he's been brought back to being a newborn and he's reborn as an absolute fucking psychopath.

[01:29:40] Right. Yes. You know a he's in a tremendous amount of pain. Right. But but B it also just feels like he's finally releasing all of the abuse he's been suffering for who knows how long. And I think the Joker thing is like a Joker even feels that like right.

[01:29:56] That's like a final straw. Yeah it's the final straw of like shit everyone. Because you said earlier everyone hates me. You hate me. Oh man. Is is private piles voice up there with Buffalo Bill's voice from Silence of Lambs of like voices you kind of want to do and are I kind of being working weird for some.

[01:30:18] Actually he'd be great. He would. It could be a great rafter man. Here's a good. Yeah he would be. Yeah. There you go. Here's a good to know for you. Quote apparently before one scene Kubrick said I want you to be big lawn Cheney big. They shot three takes and then they sat down and watched the tape and they were sitting next to each other.

[01:30:40] And after the third take Stanley took his fist and gently rubbed it against Vincent D'Onofrio. Vincent has never forgotten that it was the approval from Kubrick. That's all. That's all he would do. He would just give you a little. And the other thing D'Onofrio says is like he was very supportive. We used to have conversations in the trailer. We never talked about the project. We just talk about boxing or football or whatever. Like that was that was the vibe.

[01:31:02] The other thing I saw is that D'Onofrio was like studying Lawn Chaney the entire time. Like that was the guy he was sort of trying to build his performance off of and had never expressed that to Kubrick. So when Kubrick gave him that direction it was like OK it's working. Oh yeah right. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of rules.

[01:31:19] Another thing that stood out for me a long time ago I watched the director's commentary. I can barely remember. Oh it's not even director's commentary. I watched the commentary with the screenwriter D'Onofrio and I forget who else is in there. And D'Onofrio says he's listening to No Woman No Cry a lot in between takes on his headphones which is just like interesting choice but then you sort of get it like weirdly like and maybe I'm just like you know want to get it so I'm pretending I get it but it like it makes total sense.

[01:31:48] It does. Yeah. I don't like soft. It's like soft. It's upsetting but it's also very gentle. There's something about it. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Kubrick says Matthew Modine is as if Gary Cooper and Henry Fonda had a baby. High praise.

[01:32:04] Wow. Modine three of his brothers and one of his sisters served in Vietnam. So he said like I told I just grew up with Vietnam like Jesus. We'd listen to the radio we'd listen to the body count is how he puts it. I was you know old enough to understand what was going on. I was probably interested in the role because I grew up with it.

[01:32:22] He says he has this long. Did you read the thing where he tells the joke to Kubrick Griffin in the no in the dossier. All right. Well you know he he goes over to Kubrick and he's like I'm going to tell you a joke. You're dead and you're up in heaven and Steven Spielberg has just died and he's being greeted at the gate by Gabriel and Gabriel says dog. God likes a lot of your movies and he wants to make sure you're comfortable as anything you need.

[01:32:49] And Steven says well I always wanted to be Stanley Kubrick. Could I arrange that. And Gabriel says you know Steven why would you ask me that. You know Stanley Kubrick doesn't take meetings. And then the second part of the joke is that they go around heaven and Steven sees a guy wearing an army jacket with a beard and he says look there's Stanley Kubrick. Can I say hello. And Gabriel says that's not Stanley Kubrick. That's God. He just thinks he's Stanley Kubrick.

[01:33:14] And and Modine says Stanley liked that joke. So there you go. Stanley had a sense of humor about him being God. No he's obviously he has a Riley funny guy I think. Yeah that's something that picked up I picked up on this viewing too. And besides the obvious humor in someone berating someone else besides that humor the back half of the movie it has like the wise ass humor in the second act with the journalism stuff you're like you got to be kidding me.

[01:33:44] I get like a lot of like the cheeky because now it's like the smart guys hanging out in the back and there's humor in that being funny to Jay. What's his name John Terry who's the editor in chief. Right. You know they're absolute fucking hunk absolute John Terry hot very objective. Yeah objectively like when he's on screen I'm like Jesus Christ that's what movie stars look like.

[01:34:08] Jack's dad from Lost right. Yeah. Best known as Jack's dad from Lost to our generation has aged beautifully fucking silver Fox. Yeah he did. He did age very nicely. It's true. He also he's in the R for first ER super fans and he would often play like really dark guys much like you know the Jack's dad on Lost. Yeah. And you see him in this and you're just like why wasn't this guy a huge movie star.

[01:34:33] He's so handsome. Right. Like totally like you know cut chin you know perfect face kind of thing. I don't know. I think he's the drunk absentee father in The Big Green as well. That's right. He is. Yeah. A soccer movie. Yeah. Yeah. Gutenberg. Yeah. Yeah. No. He incredibly humor in the third part in in in the shit rafter man on like I never picked up on how funny.

[01:35:03] And an evolution that this character has. And it's so it's so funky. I mean we have the we have the funny scene in the bunks where it's like you never saw action that we set up the thousand yard stare that we've already seen a couple of times right now we have named it and then we will get to see it again from other characters but rafter man kind of being like a soft weird photographer you know kind of not. And then when they're doing the documentary and he's all of a sudden super he's like you know you know when shit hits the fan I'll put the camera down.

[01:35:33] And go to the gun and you're like you fucking lie. And then later on he's literally like kills a fucking young. He has to. It's not like he's a murderer but he kills a young woman and like that's his evolution is that he kills a 15 year old girl and is a hero for it. But he goes from like everyone's like good camera guy barfing in the helicopter like and that that character that's such a rich funny character that you just meet as dumb photo friend of Joker.

[01:36:00] And by the end of the movie he's like indicative of what the war can do to a person in a different way than we see in on the other people. Yeah this actor retired from acting has not appeared anything since 1999 is now referred to as the king of Hollywood headshots but came a photographer and is apparently the best headshot photographer around.

[01:36:18] Well he has a lot of experience nine cameras on him in this movie. I know but he must have. And you heard it's a 200 day shoot so homie got some practice with the cannon. Yeah you can headshot photography dot com is his Web site. He now. Wow wow early URL grabber.

[01:36:38] The ongoing sort of like discourse of like did Kubrick have a sense of humor was he funny this and that sort of shit. I do feel like now having watched all the movies rewatch for you know this miniseries and everything.

[01:36:54] I I rank strange love lower in the pack of movies I find funny by him like I I I know you're saying Barry Lyndon this shining even I shot Clockwork Orange to a degree like I think that run.

[01:37:16] It's all incredibly more than funny. Yeah yeah and maybe just more my sense of humor but I find myself actually laughing at these movies more than strange love where I watch it I'm like this is funny you know but you have people giving comedic performances you have more conventional jokes.

[01:37:34] And all the other movies you described the comedy comes as tension cutters in a way that would hit him a little harder and him like weaponizing his status as Kubrick like how much of the comedy in this movie comes from song choices.

[01:37:47] Yeah the song cuts to ending on the Mickey Mouse March stuff like that.

[01:37:53] But like I feel like what you're saying is like you're not saying like you know what Dr. Strange love is mid humor wise you're more saying like Kubrick sense of humor makes the most sense when he is directing a horror film or film.

[01:38:06] That is where his it just perfectly matches with the kind of very very dark humor that he obviously has within him.

[01:38:14] I mean Dr. Strange love is a great comedy it's a great film it's very funny but I think it is sort of unsettling in its trying to be a comedy or whatever.

[01:38:23] And it's also like I think by his own admission it's like this isn't my kind of comedy I will let Peter Sellers figure this part of the movie out.

[01:38:32] Whereas the comedy he is able to exert as a director and the other five movies I just cited is like putting very earnest impassioned committed performances that are not winking at all in the center of the film and then building the humor of contrast around them.

[01:38:48] A little bit of context on something we've already talked about Kubrick told Ken Adam his famous production designer you need to find every location within a 20 mile radius of my home.

[01:39:01] Which was basically the same thing he told him for Barry Lyndon but I think you know with Lyndon they did eventually go to Ireland and stuff but they almost entirely use London and its suburbs to be South Carolina to be Vietnam to be you know they have fucking helicopter shots where they're going over the jungle.

[01:39:22] That's like I assume the freaking Lake District or whatever all of the battlefield sequences were shot in Kubrick's kitchen. He just set it on fire. Light it up like his backyard is fully on fire. All right.

[01:39:37] I just didn't want to have to commute the boot camp they use like a British territorial army base so that makes it you know it's a boot camp like you know you don't really need too much there.

[01:39:52] The most interesting part is all the Tet Offensive stuff they shot in Bechton which is basically like in the Docklands which is like at the time in the 80s this like abandoned industrial area like a very depressed area and all that does when you're watching you know the stuff where they're like it's dark and they're shooting and it's just this like crazy bombed out kind of like urban landscape.

[01:40:14] It does work but as you were saying it's very it's a very urban war environment versus almost every Vietnam movie we see that's like obviously been shot in like the Philippines or whatever and it's like taking advantage of like a jungle.

[01:40:29] But that is weirdly what works to its advantage is like the actual Vietnam City stuff in the movie is really good and the other movies don't really try for that as much.

[01:40:39] Yeah it's all it's all jungles and hooches and all that's right this there's a sequence where when they throw the smoke to hide from the sniper I don't mean to jump around too much but when they throw the smoke to hide from the sniper and they sprint into vanishing horizon like that shit you don't like the follow shot of these guys just disappearing into it's so real so ham fistedly metaphorical but like also at the same time hits you where you're like.

[01:41:09] Shit these guys are like running into not existing anymore and then a handful of them will no longer exist after this moment the moment they send a ball out and you're just watching him get smaller and smaller in the frame going in and you're just like I know what's going to happen here.

[01:41:24] Well also also it's like on spot there's a lot of spoken racism in this movie and then a lot of unspoken racism like the idea first of all the name eight ball is a classic racial term and then also sending him out like it feels it feels so fucked up and the other cool thing about that and this has nothing to do with the race stuff but I'm just while it's on my mind watching cowboy climb the ranks in within 16 minutes.

[01:41:54] Of the movie he goes from like fifth in command to fully squad leader and over the course of the movie apparently I don't know this I only read it in my in my dossier the joke private joker private joker is a sergeant by like the end of the movie like he's going up in ranks yeah he's and it's it's sort of that like failing upwards of the military but then you see it nakedly displayed where it's like it's not failing upwards it's there are vacancies.

[01:42:21] Yeah the people are dying people be dying yeah or leaving or getting wounded and all that yeah cowboys kind of like fully unremarkable to you know yes right he's not good nothing about him except that he's jokers friend right and he's only jokers friend because he stood next to him on day one right because they got stuck in the same shit together yeah fucking di and one of their guys in their platoon fucking died on the last day.

[01:42:49] Yeah and he was jerking off just so much to get out of it and he still yeah.

[01:42:55] Adam Baldwin I'm like if that could have gotten you discharged from the military wouldn't have had to worry that much in this era you know the second you know I would have been like one I'm gone you know what I'm saying guys right yeah let me just bring national booms Christmas vacation with me.

[01:43:09] I got flat arches and hairy palms discharge.

[01:43:12] Sears catalog know what I'm saying all right they they're shooting at what's called the Bechtin gas works which was the largest gas plant in the world and was basically scheduled for demolition and so British gas the company that owned it was just like do what you want you want to blow shit up fine like who cares and all the actors in retrospect are like we were probably breathing in the most gas we could get.

[01:43:38] It was like insane fumes like this was like an abandoned gas factory. So much concrete. It's like this concrete is just burning the entire time like 12 different buildings it looks so good but you're right it feels like that would be like lethal for and you know that this.

[01:44:01] This is a ball the actor describes his like they took like six weeks to shoot that portion where they're like creeping up and a ball describes he's like I literally laid on the ground for six weeks.

[01:44:14] Yeah like I was like I didn't even think of that as an actor it's like we can't even put a mannequin out there because he is kind of alive. The last 20 minutes of the movie are just orange. Yes yes yes.

[01:44:28] David we were joking about this with the doughboys over text I don't think we've said this on Mike but the thing of like we're almost surprised that Universal didn't let Christopher Nolan drop an actual nuke for Oppenheimer.

[01:44:43] Right. Just let him blow one up. Come on. Right. Just one. Just one.

[01:44:47] Right. At this point where you're just like if the master wants it and he claims the first space out here no one's going to drop a tactical nuke in Van Nuys and they're going to get it.

[01:44:58] You know they're going to use 12 cameras on it. Don't worry folks they are shooting it on IMAX. We're going to get really good footage.

[01:45:04] All right. Adam Baldwin famously chill guy. Actually don't know what he's up to lately but I feel like he was the first celebrity when you were like oh follow him on Twitter. Oh this is fun. An actor I like has a Twitter account.

[01:45:17] And then like 10 minutes in you're like oh Jesus Christ I've done this guy. What do I have that experience.

[01:45:23] Oh yeah absolutely. One of my favorite types of IMDb trivia fact is of course IMDb user comes to conclusion on their own presents it to everyone to show how smart and perceptive they are. Right.

[01:45:37] I'm going to try to get the wording right here. But it's essentially like Matthew Matthew Modine plays a liberal character in the movie which is funny because he is also liberal in life whereas Adam Baldwin is more conservative and plays a conservative character.

[01:45:56] That's a pretty reductive way of looking at full metal jacket. Yeah. I don't know if I would call it conservative. There's such a that's such a modern look at it where it's like well there's a classic delineation between people in America liberals and conservatives. It's like whoa.

[01:46:13] That's only recently a battleground. I found it. I have to read this verbatim just because the wording of this is incredible. The casting of Joker in Animal Mother can be seen as a case of art imitating life.

[01:46:25] Colin Matthew Modine is an outspoken liberal Democrat not too dissimilar to Joker who is clearly more of a dove and may not have any religious preference. He tells Sergeant Hartman he does not believe in the Virgin Mary.

[01:46:38] Meanwhile Animal Mother's hawkish instinct can be somewhat of a parallel to Adam Baldwin's conservative. He's really hawkish. Yeah that's how I would describe the guy with 80 bandoliers fucking giant bullets around a very hawkish dog. Yes I would say Adam Baldwin is excellent in this movie.

[01:46:57] He's generally a great actor. I really like Adam Baldwin as an actor. He's good at playing this type of a guy.

[01:47:03] He's he's sort of the anti D'Onofrio what you're talking about Gabrus where it's like you watch him in this you're like how did this guy not get roles this good for the rest of his career. And that's like oh he's a nightmare to work with.

[01:47:14] But he does have one good story which is that you would play chess with Kubrick all the time which I feel like there's a story from every movie or some guy playing with chess with him all the time.

[01:47:23] And he said you know we'd lay out the board and he would kind of waddle over and wipe you out in 15 moves. And one time I do like him saying that he would waddle. You can picture it for some Kubrick waddle and wipe out.

[01:47:36] One time I actually got him to blunder and I won the game. Big deal one out of 50. But I said hey I gotcha I gotcha you have to resign.

[01:47:44] And he said to me the only reason you won Adam is because I have so little respect for your game that I made a blunder. Now get back to work. And then he had a little wry grin and he walked away. Well I do like that though.

[01:47:56] He's just an absolutely sore loser. Well a scene I wanted to spotlight that really disturbed me this time around this viewing is when we're meeting in the third part the platoon. There's I don't remember the character's name but he reveals the dead soldier.

[01:48:22] The guy whose birthday party it is? Yes yes yes. Who you think is just like a sleeping guy. Like a dude taking an Indiana Jones style nap. And obviously it's disturbing it's a dead person but I like really listened to like what he's saying in that monologue. Yeah.

[01:48:40] And it's like it's kind of this thing where we're like talking about how the comedy really works in this movie because of the context of what's happening. It's war. This is like a comedy bit right or like it's like he's trying to be funny. It's the opposite.

[01:48:57] It's fucking terrifying. But that's pretty much any time anyone in this movie tries to be funny it's upsetting. Yeah. And anytime people are serious it's kind of funny. Like it's like he's doing this bit and you're like this person is never going to be the same. Right.

[01:49:15] Like this person has lost their mind. Yeah that's I mean that's it's so much what this movie is. You got like a defending animal mother you got like fucking what's his name touchdown who we meet briefly like Ed O'Ross. Love Ed O'Ross.

[01:49:30] Look coming from Action Boys where Ed O'Ross. Wait you're telling me that you like Ed O'Ross? I mean The Hidden I assume you guys have done The Hidden on Action Boys. We have not yet. What oh God can I come on from The Hidden please? Of course. Great.

[01:49:50] I love that movie. Ed O'Ross plays a different nationality in like 12 movies. He's like a Russian bad guy he's like a Latino bad guy. He owns the flower shop on Six Feet Under. Oh he's so good in that.

[01:50:04] That's like a later in life role for him where he is really good. And I feel like right because he dates Francis Conroy for a while and his like dating style is like you you should date me. Hey why don't we go out?

[01:50:16] You know like he's just doing that the whole time it's great. You want to hear a weird Ed O'Neill credit? Ed O'Ross. You want to hear a weird Ed O'Neill credit? He was on Married with Children. No one talks about that.

[01:50:29] Weird Ed O'Ross credit he was the voice of Agent K on the Men in Black cartoon show. Huh. He did TLJ. He was doing TLJ I guess I could see him being a diet TLJ.

[01:50:40] He's also he's itchy in Dick Tracy and he's kind of unrecognizable in that but he's really good. Wait a second I'm sorry you're telling me someone is unrecognizable in Dick Tracy.

[01:50:49] But like in Red Heat he plays a Russian in Lethal Weapon he plays a Latino and then in Universal Soldier he plays an American like Colonel. He could do like a cigar chomping thing too.

[01:51:02] And then in this he's in a Notre Dame football play like there's not much more American and then that kicks off the we meet someone they die. We meet someone they die we meet someone or Joker meets someone they die however you want to look at it.

[01:51:18] And it's so realistic they're like hey where's Cowboy we're coming to meet oh Cowboy's up there and then it's just like everyone that they meet along the way dies.

[01:51:27] And it's just like if you mapped it out outline wise you'd be like this is so cartoonish it's like the leader dies then the next leader dies then the next leader dies.

[01:51:34] And it's like it seems cartoonish on the page but watching it in this movie it feels so realistic how a guy like Cowboy who is just a random banana from fucking a platoon is now leading a squad in like an anti-sniper mission and shit.

[01:51:52] It's fucking I never picked up on all of that stuff like the war is hell elements that aren't said out loud like I'm more like Boku books you know when I first watched this.

[01:52:04] I'm embarrassed by how many times I watch this and Clockwork Orange as sort of like sick hit him with the giant concrete dick. Don't be embarrassed it's okay. Whatever. Haas and I can go in on this I think it's like recovering dirtbags. Yeah.

[01:52:21] Like I feel like we like we can like speak to that like ex-dirtbag life but on this like on this I'm getting like and now I'm like crazy you know an anti-war person anti-military and like watching it I'm like holy shit.

[01:52:34] Man this movie is so rich and real and has such a strong take on war that I had previously just been like drip down to crack your ass end up staying on the mattress is the coolest thing anyone could ever say.

[01:52:46] I do love good remember when on Facebook we would all have our favorite quotes. Yeah. Instant Messenger away mess. Look again I know I like to be the 40 year old in the room but I used to make mix CDs burn CDs with movie quotes in between songs.

[01:53:05] Oh I would do that. I think about the time I spent assembling mix CDs sending them out in the mail handwriting liner notes you know and being like how many skits can I fit on before it's too many.

[01:53:20] Like what's the balance between comedy and spoken word and actual music. By the way Gabrus I'm about to be 37. You're not that much older than me. I'm a grand old man over here. And my bar mitzvah is next week so I'm about to be a man.

[01:53:34] You're about to be a man. And I think Griffin when he's like an 11 year old in your improv class just kind of establishes a dynamic that never goes away. Sure. Even once you've now seen him be like a 35 year old with like a health issue.

[01:53:48] You're like yeah you're an old man right. Like it happens fast. You meet him when he's a 16 year old child actor wide eyed you're like this kid is a fucking baby for life. I'm old.

[01:54:00] I'm 20 years older than when I met you and that I don't put that on you. Right. Yeah.

[01:54:06] It is you know like the strike that people have against this movie of it just being kind of like formless or like incidental anecdotal kind of you know like oh they just took the book and it's these three sections and shit just kind of happens.

[01:54:20] All the stuff we're talking about where it's like when you get to that moment of the guy taking the head off the dead guy. And just being like oh he's just here and they're all making jokes about it and everything.

[01:54:29] That makes sense to you if you've watched 45 minutes of like boot camp of dehumanization. Right. You know in the same way that it's like the speed at which people die.

[01:54:43] I mean all this stuff it's like I do think the odd structure of this movie benefits it in a lot of ways of really placing you into each of the three spaces.

[01:54:51] It wants you to consider psychologically as aspects of war and how they interact with each other to get to the point where these guys are just sort of like weird dead broken inside.

[01:55:03] Yeah. Along those lines like the middle chunk is that is the 12 intellectuals drinking coffee talking about what's wrong with the Vietnam War or whatever like that middle chunk gives you that other perspective of like intelligence whatever you want to call those people like hipsters.

[01:55:18] Like we get to see that perspective for a brief moment and then see Joker's perspective shattered from like the Ted offensive through him chasing down his old buddy.

[01:55:30] Like you see him destroy himself at Paris Island but survive and he's now he's still got this personality but by the end of the movie he will have the thousand yard stare.

[01:55:40] Like he's given the thousand yard stare. He's given the choice of something he has to do that will fuck him up for life or he's already fucked up for life.

[01:55:51] He's got to do one more like it's it's thinking about it from like that perspective like you're saying the three different movies each one makes them make the other ones hit harder.

[01:56:01] Right. That's the thing. And like the middle section is him feeling like he's pretty cocky that he has figured out the exact amount of healthy distance he can have from this incredibly unhealthy thing to not have it destroy him right. It's psychologically literally kill him all of that.

[01:56:20] There's something to that. They're working for stars and stripes that never really hit me in past viewings of that. They're they're journalists but they're part of the propaganda.

[01:56:31] Yeah. Right. Right. I'm going to stick up for stars and stripes. It's not propaganda at all. I know people who work for stars and stripes and it is much more complicated than that to call it then calling it propaganda.

[01:56:42] But back in the day they certainly you know they certainly especially in Vietnam had their limitations. Well yeah I think he's talking to his.

[01:56:49] I think they shaded a little bit here like they shaded a little bit from him of like from the hunk explaining to us Lockhart is his name in the movie but like he kind of is like we don't want people don't want to hear that.

[01:57:02] People don't want to hear the real shit right now. Right. Yeah. He's like around other sort of like grunts or superiors or whatever they're like well you're going to do the right kind of piece right.

[01:57:11] Even if it's not he's being told those are the marching orders from his editor as much. There is that assumption of like you're not one of these fucking lefty outside journalists coming in and writing some judgment on us.

[01:57:24] I love also in the third act every time he meets someone they change they get excited. Yes. Like the energy of these people who are in the absolute hell are like oh wait I could be famous. Oh wait hold on. What's my character's story. Like who am I.

[01:57:38] What's my bit.

[01:57:39] Yeah. What's who how do I convey my like that that run when they're doing the documentary Kubrick shooting someone shooting a fucking war movie is a war doc is a wild fucking like you know zoom out moment but everyone changing like their POV or their attitude once they're rolling on themselves like Rafterman as I brought it up earlier.

[01:58:04] But we hear it from a lot of these guys like they're posturing they're creating of their character or they're creating of their belief in war. It's like they're actors in a movie you know.

[01:58:15] Yeah. Whoa. You've ever heard is how making movies is harder. Yeah. That's the main takeaway from this movie. The only Oscar nomination this gets is screenplay.

[01:58:27] Did you get a sound nomination maybe or is it just screenplay. It's just screen wild. Even if it is wild hit in the major categories you're like you don't give this cinematography you don't give this sound.

[01:58:39] Yeah it is. Well hell let's look at cinematography because while we're on the subject of cinematography I talked about that beautiful shot of everyone running into the smoke.

[01:58:49] Another great one is from Paris Island when they're all covered in mud and running at camera. Yeah. And I in the director's commentary I also or the commentary I remember hearing D'Onofrio saying when they watched that clip back everyone was really impressed like Kubrick wanted to seem like a stampede of buffaloes.

[01:59:13] And like when you watch it really they're filling the frame coming right at them with covered in mud and you see like everyone is now like becoming the killer vert the marine version of themselves. It's a fucking great great storytelling in one frame. It's like if we're gassing up cinematographer.

[01:59:32] The nominees were Last Emperor which is like the big winner of 1987 on every technical award. Right. Yeah. And then Empire of the Sun and Hope and Glory which are similarly big epic movies. And then May to one which is Haskell Wexler in his like old age you know absolutely fucking crushing it.

[01:59:52] And and then broadcast news which is sort of a surprise nominee. It's Michael Ball house but that movie does have great cinematography. But I guess. Yes. Yeah. I mean I don't know. I mean they're not bad nominees is what I'm saying. And then sound you know it's losing out to like Empire of the Sun lethal weapon Robocop witches of Eastwick and Last Emperor.

[02:00:12] I'm surprised to. Maybe there was Griff some internal resistance to Kubrick the king of England right like this sort of like hey man you don't work in Hollywood because like these are trade voters essentially. Maybe that was it. I don't know. I don't I genuinely don't know. But obviously the shining full metal jacket and Eyes Wide Shut are all basically ignored by the Oscars after you know a run of his movies getting lots of Oscar attention.

[02:00:39] I know the one that's wild is is that Clockwork Orange got got a best picture. Yeah yeah totally. Yeah you feel like that's the one that would have totally turned them off.

[02:00:49] Right. But that's I guess such an exciting time for the Oscars and they're they make mostly good choices in this you know but it does feel like starting with the shining for whatever reason the Oscar game is it may. And I'm sure Kubrick did not really play it either. Right. Like I'm sure. Oh not. You think this guy didn't do the campaign.

[02:01:09] Kubrick was probably part of it. Yeah. Dude I remember reading the interview with Pacino or hearing it somewhere where he was like talking about the Oscars like I don't want to go to that bullshit and it's like it felt like imagine an actor with that attitude now how much like like we got like our legendary actors are selling fucking like content like on.

[02:01:33] And this is like things have evolved so much you have to be so much more than like you used to be able to be like a freak actor just be like oh yeah guys just like a free and he's so good and stuff. But the the amount of press about Florence Pugh not doing press it's insane.

[02:01:50] It's insane. We're talking about this movie. Yeah don't worry darling. Right. You're referencing the amount we're talking about this movie like I wish we didn't know this much but that the cornerstone of it is like she's only done six interviews for the movie. Clearly there's a big problem here. And I'm like yeah the problem is that marketing is insane on all of these fucking things.

[02:02:12] The problem is that she's expected to do 60 right. And it's like why it is. It's a right. I can't speak to the inner workings of all this dynamic but it's like the idea that it's like she's doing nothing for this film. She hasn't been putting out the hashtags that that makes me want to go into the latrine with my fucking with Charlene and fucking paint the fucking tile with my brain.

[02:02:36] Full metal jacket. What one thing I want to shout out is of course the score is credited to Abigail Mead but that is Kubrick's daughter. Right. Vivian Kubrick who did not want to be judged by her last name so she had the pseudonym and it's like this weird sort of synthesizer score. It's very cool. It was disqualified from Oscar consideration because I think because it was too short.

[02:03:06] Like literally there's not a lot of it. Yeah yeah. It's like 22 minutes long. Yeah. The soundtrack is so iconic in this movie that you think about that when you think about the entire movie and the music but on watching it you're like and I mean soundscape be synthy music is like my dream in movies.

[02:03:24] You know what I mean. Like I love Michael Mann Carpenter. Yeah. That's all my wheelhouse. And then I really picked up on it this time. And then the juxtaposition of that to like these boots are made for walking is such a fucking fun rich dynamic as well.

[02:03:42] Surfing Bird. Yeah. That's the best novel. Hands down ever made. Yeah. Fucking the trash man. I got to see them actually at a WFMU record fair. They were all in their 60s but and like did they do show up in black. Of course they know. No they didn't fucking.

[02:04:04] It was so incredible. Like 60 year old men with like black dyed hair still wearing skin tight black jeans black shirt and they fucking I mean bless them. The trash man also a great name for a band. We should change the bit from screaming free bird at concerts to screaming surfer bird.

[02:04:23] I first fell in love with that song in Frankie and Annette's Back to the Beach. The humongous. Oh yeah. From down under. Yeah. Peewee Herman dances to bird bird bird. Bird is the word.

[02:04:38] I was like, no, that's not it. This is Vivian Kubrick did a score for Eyes Wide Shut that wasn't used right. This is her only used score. She was sort of right. Yeah. Because the protégé of his daughter was Pook. Right. Who does the Eyes Wide Shut score. But Vivian was the one who was working on all the sets to the China documentary obviously.

[02:05:00] I believe she did one for Full Metal Jacket as well. That's called like shooting full metal jacket. I've never seen it. Kubrick said he just wanted no recognizable instruments. He wanted like a score that sounded different and was harder to place. And it's coming off of like Wendy Carlos delivering two of the best electronic scores ever.

[02:05:17] Yeah. It's so interesting how Kubrick it's like he has so much iconic. His movies are iconic musically obviously. Right. Like the soundtracks the music they picks and then they always have these idiosyncratic actual scores or often have. Right. Like the Wendy Carlos stuff like this. I love it. He's a cool guy. I actually think he's a good director.

[02:05:38] I think the thing he's good at doing is making films. Making films. Film making. This film made 38 million dollars against a 17 million dollar budget. In its first 50 days of release it ultimately grossed 46 domestic and 120 worldwide. It was a hit that got mixed reviews. His movies played really well overseas always. Yeah. But like I also feel like much like The Shining it's like it actually did well despite the big budget.

[02:06:08] Yeah. It was a big investment of time and money. Yeah. And the reviews were very like eh. You know like on release. That's what like both these and then of course they endure. These are enduring films but it's funny.

[02:06:21] I know there's inflation because I'm on Twitter but there is 17 million for a movie that went like 150 days over and is like legend. And it's like that's what like Ryan Reynolds hair guy got on Red Red Scare 2 or Red Alert whatever the fuck that right. The Red Zone whatever the fuck that movie is called. But it's like it was called Red Scare.

[02:06:44] 17 million seems like like people are like if you could make Full Metal Jacket for 17 million dollars. Right. What the fuck is Doctor Strange 2 guys. Because even if you adjust for inflation and you're like this cost 50 or 60 million dollars I'm like over two years. It sounds like a bargain to me.

[02:07:09] Should we play the box office game. Yes. Is there. Yeah. OK. All right. All right. Let's do we want to do the first weekend or the first wide weekend. They're very different. One is full of iconic movies and one is full of trash. Not trash. That's too strong. I want to you know what I'm going to do the wide weekend Griffin because OK you'll see. All right. So it's first weekend wide. It's limited for the first couple of weeks and it goes wide. So it's number two at the box office. Full Metal Jacket. This is just a little bit of a preview.

[02:07:39] It's July 10th 1987. OK. OK. Number one is a comedy sequel. Number one is a comedy sequel in 1987. It's the Beverly Hills Cup 2. No I mean I actually like that movie. That is number seven at the box office. OK. This is not a good comedy sequel. Is it a two. It's a two and not a good comedy franchise. Oh it's not a good comedy.

[02:08:05] It is no but you know close to say Arthur 2 on the rocks. I mean good guesses. No it's a similar franchise where it's like not the last franchise and this is a two. I believe it's the last me. It's the last that's not made for TV. There are two more that are made for TV. Interesting. OK. Yeah. Two more there. Oh oh oh. Is it Revenge of the Nerds 2. And what's the subtitle on that baby. Fuck is it nerds in paradise. That's right.

[02:08:35] Yeah. We're in paradise. Right. Because I think three is nerds in love. But no that's for TV. That's for three is the next generation. Oh boy. Do you know do you know that like 10 15 years ago they started filming Revenge of the Nerds remake and like a week into filming were just like what are we doing here. And they just shut it down and never finished. I did not know that that whoever said what are we doing here should get the palm door.

[02:09:02] Yes. I just get like whoever said that deserves the highest award you can have in cinema because thank you. You did more for movie making than Kubrick did by just not making that movie. Yeah they did right. This was it. They shot I think for like a week on some campus and then the campus the college read the script and was like leave immediately. We do not approve. You guys don't even have the third act raped by the hero and we don't even want to watch this.

[02:09:31] That's one reason this franchise should be left for dead. And then Fox watched the dailies and was like you know what guys forget it. We don't we don't need to restart this. I remember who it is but it was like some current film producer executive who worked there at the time. No I think Howard Sturm was involved in it and Adam Brody maybe as well. Adam Brody was in it. Yeah yeah. But but one of the exec when they were at that point where like they had lost their location and they were deciding whether or not to put it back up.

[02:09:59] They watched the footage and they were like wait nerds aren't like this anymore. Like that was apparently the point they made them. Yes they were like the rest of our Fox film slate is super hero films. They have one. They don't act like this. They don't look like this. There's nothing for them to overcome anymore. And that was a run the world. That was 15 years ago. Like they weren't even aware of how much worse it was going to become.

[02:10:23] Number one is Revenge of the Nerds 2 nonetheless. Number two is Full Metal Jacket. Number three. Who are these nerds. Number three goes nerds. Yes. Number three is a very sort of well known film take on a hit TV show that is bad.

[02:10:53] Yes. So it's OK. So it's not the untouchables. No no it's a comedy version of OK you know along those hard 54 where are you. No but very close. I'm close. I'm sure I bet there you go. There we go. Dragnet with Dan Aykroyd and Tom Hanks just the facts these days I feel like mostly famous for its bizarre city of crime. Yes rap video that you can Google anytime you want.

[02:11:21] But also what are the bizarre high concept premise for that movie of like the bit is we're taking Dragnet a deadly serious show making as a comedy where the joke is one guy acts like he's in Dragnet and everyone else does not.

[02:11:35] Because it's Aykroyd is he's Joe Friday Jr. or whatever right like he's Joe Friday and he just acts like Joe Friday but it's the 80s now. Right. Yeah. OK. Sounds good. Dragnet never seen it. Number four is a high concept sci fi comedy that we will cover on this podcast one day.

[02:11:55] Huh. We will cover it on this podcast one day in 1987 is a high concept sci fi dramedy. It's not a McCartney. I would call it a comedy. It's not a it's not a McTiernan. No just thinking of people in the someday file. It's not a Joe Dante. It is a Joe Dante. It is a Joe Dante. Fuck. OK. 89 is the verbs. 89 is the bird. That's right. Is it the explorers. That's 85. It's the movie in between those two.

[02:12:22] You say inner space. Inner space. We go. Martin Short. Yeah. Dennis Quaid obviously. Mike Ryan. I love that movie. Yeah. I haven't seen it a long run post gremlins where Dante has these movies that like score through the roof and test screenings and everyone's like it's another hit for you Joe and all of them underperform. And they're mostly all good. Right. He's working with like nursing school premises. Is it good.

[02:12:51] Explorers is the one where it's like one of those truly unfinished movies where they like didn't let him shoot the last act of it. And he's kind of disowned it because he's like I just fundamentally did not get to finish shooting the script.

[02:13:04] I remember liking it as a kid because of real like wish fulfillment shit. But I never. There's nothing that stands out to me about loving it. You know it is good. It just is very much a movie marred by being like there's clearly a version of this that wasn't made that was just unfinished right there that will never get to say it.

[02:13:26] And it's Ethan Hawke and River Phoenix. Yeah. If if Dante never makes another movie Griffin I know he you want him to and he he may well make another movie but do we just do him and just do the whole and bearing the X as one episode like we just try to limit the badness.

[02:13:44] I pretty much everything else is good. I don't really have a problem with the whole you don't have a problem like but does it need its own episode or can we just kind of tack it on to the bad. I just truly don't want to end on him. I know you don't. This is this is why we've never done Dante. That's your thing. You don't like him to make another. Yeah we'll see. I hope he does. I hope I hope that's number four number five Griffin and this is why I wanted to do this weekend is a film you've mentioned on this episode Robocop.

[02:14:12] No that is the summer right. Yeah Robocop is maybe later this summer because it's not here. Maybe that comes out in July July. Okay. Next week. Oh baby. Number one at the box office. That's right. It's fine. Mentioning this episode. Is it a war film.

[02:14:30] No we mentioned it in the context of one of the actors. It's a teen comedy. It's the debut of another director who we could I suppose do on blank check. I think he was on the March Madness once it was not an Anthony Michael Hall movie. No teen actor director we could cover. He's not a teen actor. It's a teen comedy. You're saying yes. Okay. Yes yes yes. Adventures in babysitting. It's adventures in babysitting. Wow.

[02:15:00] I was like it can't be that one that we really talked about an extended series. That's crazy right. It's no free. Oh it's on. It's on you know different screens in your multiplex in completely different bodies. Yeah. Who directed who directed Chris Columbus.

[02:15:16] Columbus. It's his director because he wrote Gremlins obviously. Right. His directorial debut and he wrote the Goonies right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Damn. He really kind of damn. Jeez. Chris Columbus one of the nicest people I've ever met. Chris Columbus everyone's sweetheart. Total sweetheart. Number six is the witches of Eastwick which obviously we've covered on this podcast. Number seven Beverly Hills cop to number eight the untouchables which you mentioned of course.

[02:15:44] Number nine is Spaceballs which just came out a couple of weeks ago and then number 10 is Roxanne. It's you know some good movies quite a summer. Yeah. And look just to go back to a previous thesis I made the other nine movies on that list all are 80s movies.

[02:16:03] Yeah. Right in the middle. Like yeah. Number two is yes full metal jacket which does not feel like no like every other movie is just like oh we're having 80s movie night at the local cinema. You could play any but if you threw full metal jacket up there people be like really. It's so hot. Yeah. We hurt 80s. Michael Ian Black would love to chat about full metal jacket.

[02:16:27] You know my my college internship was on I love the 90s part. Do you. I mean did you ever do any of the best week ever reboots. No I was a P.A. on the OG best week. Right. And then you were obviously in the in the guy code circuit but it truly feels like you missed the I love the and the best the by like by that much you were there on set.

[02:16:53] If I would yeah if I would if I would have started my career like three years ago. It's funny how much talking head comedy is in like the first eight years of my career including I know my three years of my survivor job was like working at VH1 on talking head shows and then my big quote unquote break my first acting gigs were being a talking head on a different MTV network. It was a million.

[02:17:17] It was that was the industry indicative of the time. It's like right. Living in New York and you want to work in comedy it's like you can't get The Daily Show or SNL like that's what you have left.

[02:17:28] John. And I was next year on 30 Rock. I literally hit like all of the 90s. All of the New York jobs you can have at the time.

[02:17:35] Did you do that show. It was a pilot that didn't go but that I think it was for VH1 that was like 20s versus 30s.

[02:17:43] No. Do you remember this. Now there's a chance you maybe did this and don't remember it because it was just like everyone got fucking called in for it.

[02:17:52] But it was like a panel show it very much maybe you know what if you weren't on it it was probably because guy code was already running and there was a non-compete thing but it was like this is what your 20s are like versus this is what your 30s are like and they pick some subject and you fucking talk about it and they had like comedians in their 20s of comedians in their 30s.

[02:18:09] Years later when she fucking did the podcast put together that fucking Nia da Costa now director of the Marvels was the person who like fucking was prompting me off camera for that. That is so fucking funny.

[02:18:25] Because we started emailing about doing the podcast and I was like and I think we met at like trivia once and she was like you wouldn't remember this but I did that stupid fucking thing.

[02:18:33] And I was the person saying like so what's it like buying groceries in your 20s. They were just the only thing that people wanted to make for like 10 years there in comedy. They're kind of dead now right like they don't exist anymore I feel like.

[02:18:49] No because I whole yeah tick tock IG front face camera just all just social media just kill that.

[02:18:55] Yeah I can't and it can't happen fast enough like no best week ever was insane because it was a weekly turnaround like that was what was crazy about at the time.

[02:19:05] Now if you had to wait four days to like watch comedy about something that happened in the news you'd be furious with your weight because we get it in six seconds.

[02:19:16] It felt astonishing they could get an entire segment out on Friday night about something that happened on Wednesday right.

[02:19:23] It was crazy and we were like we thought we were like fucking the newsroom you know what I mean like we were like we got to get the Bachelorette package in for this week's episode. It's like we got to transcribe the Chuck Nice interview.

[02:19:35] It's like there's just always some dumb fucking shit and of course every job you're in is like the highest stakes. Of course you can possibly have 22 being like need to find turkey baster footage. But now you're just like Twitter has rung dry Adam Levine's fucking DMs within 12 hours.

[02:19:57] There's no way you could get it on air fast enough. You would have to like by the time if you had a weekly comedy show like that rounds this shit up you would have to like have the sixth take on Levine.

[02:20:07] Yeah like you know what I mean like you'd have to have like some sort of galaxy brain take that is like somehow no one has gotten to it and that's just embarrassing. Yeah you literally cannot upload the files fast enough. John always a pleasure. Please seriously. We were.

[02:20:24] I was trying to do the take account of the episodes you've been on. He wrote Warrior Full Metal Jacket like three and two beyond canonical movies. No I know I know I see I see right. You're saying that one's a bit of an outlier.

[02:20:41] Yeah but like you got like Heat Road Warrior Full Metal Jacket arguably all classics within their genres at the top top tier. Of course. No I feel fucking blessed. Also you bring me in for action shit which I could. Sure.

[02:20:55] Watched thousands like these all the movies you've described are movies I watched when I was 14 and 40 and had two completely different takes and opinions on them and it feels so rich to get to talk about it at that level rather than my nor my normal like comedy riffing on jokes about Neal's love of Neal McCauley's love of metal books like getting to fucking analyze it from with the connoisseurs of context themselves.

[02:21:20] Tensile strengths. Yeah. Speaking of though people should subscribe to Action Boys. Yeah Action Boys dot biz. We have some free episodes if you're just want to listen get a little sniff get you hooked.

[02:21:33] You can find free episodes wherever you get podcasts but we're on Patreon at Action Boys dot biz putting out weekly episodes for over five years in the blank check mold of nothing has been under two hours ever.

[02:21:46] As a matter of fact we are famously we have a three hour and 40 minute episode about the movie The Program. Like that's humiliating. Perfect. And under one places to party before you die. Yes. True TV.

[02:22:01] Use your parents log in watch it at the dentist office or however the fuck you can get through TV. Get hit by a car wake up in a hospital and finally get to watch it. Or true TV please. Intraction.

[02:22:13] And they put it on it's like oh man the Joker's for six hours. You put on your TV. It's either fucking playoff hockey or the Jokers. But in between you got a hundred one places to party before you die. Buy it on Amazon or whatever I don't know.

[02:22:28] We're trying to get a second season we'll see. Corporate mergers are thrilling for shareholders and brutal for creators. But but also let's say also bad for consumers. Yeah. It's truly only good for the investment class. So absolutely again if you have discovery fucking shares. Yeah.

[02:22:49] Thank you for being here and thank you for having me. This was a fucking blast. Oh hair by Leonard. This is the one thing I meant to talk about. What an insane title card at the end of the movie. It just says hair by Leonard.

[02:23:01] It's like the classic Kubrick end of credit shit where it's like everyone. And he and there's just hair by Leonard. I'll send you guys the pic. I could not fucking get over it. This is the guy who shaved all the heads.

[02:23:14] I'll send you just the name of the guy with the buzzer. His name is Leonard Lewis. He was the world's first celebrity hairdresser. He famously had a salon in swinging hair. He was the first celebrity to have a salon in swinging hair. In London.

[02:23:33] And Stanley Kubrick always used him. And that's why it says hair by Leonard on many a Kubrick movie. This is just such a great fucking credit to see something like that. Especially for this one where this is like almost the least hair in any movie we've covered.

[02:23:47] It's true. Leonard phoned it in for this one. He just threw someone a razor. It was like come on you know what to do. Here's some clippers. Ernie.

[02:23:58] And then they used animal shears because they needed it to get like the bigger cinematically get bigger chunks of hair in like one. So he's got these guys fucking coming back to shoot like four weeks after and then hit them with animal shears on the head.

[02:24:12] That shit hurts. Wild. Thank you again Gabrus and thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media and helping to produce the show.

[02:24:26] Thank you to AJ McKee and Alex Baron for our editing Lee Montgomery in the Great American Novel for our theme song. Joe Bowen and Pat Rounds for our artwork. JJ Birch for our research.

[02:24:39] You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit including our Patreon blank check special features where we're currently doing the Roger Moore Bond movies. Have you guys watched those for action boys. I think the one we've done your the Chris Walken one.

[02:24:56] That's a big Bond head. That's not more though. That's a Dalton. That's Chris Walker one is a more no no no. Chris Walker. It's more being super old. That's what is that. That's the last one right. We haven't gotten to that yet. Yeah.

[02:25:15] Next on the feed is Octopussy and then you know Budokil shortly after that. Wild wild fucking movies. So crazy. Yeah. Low key wild. Hosley I'll see you in the trashman fan forums. That's where we keep up.

[02:25:33] And tune in next week for Eyes Wide Shut our final Stanley Kubrick episode. That's right. And then we should say. Well we'll announce whatever at the end of the week. That's the next week. People figured it out. Anyway thank you all for listening. Uh huh. As always.

[02:25:54] Uh huh. I don't know how to gun myself. Now you're like stop laughing. You bag it. I can't I have to use David's hands to choke myself.