Going In Style with James Urbaniak

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David

[00:00:09] Don't know what to say or to expect

[00:00:22] I gotta look back and say that my life was okay.

[00:00:25] I got my share of everything but money, and the guys who went out for that,

[00:00:28] some of them got it today, but put too much time in getting it.

[00:00:31] Whatever. That's history.

[00:00:33] Right now, here we are.

[00:00:35] And I ain't complaining, but things would be a lot easier if we had a little extra cash.

[00:00:39] And besides, what the hell could we lose?

[00:00:42] Either we get the money or we get caught.

[00:00:45] We're podcasters either way.

[00:00:47] Wow.

[00:00:48] I didn't have it.

[00:00:49] Nice.

[00:00:50] No, no, no, no, no.

[00:00:51] Grizzle.

[00:00:52] I was like watching it last night and I was like,

[00:00:56] do I have a George Burns in me?

[00:00:59] And I could do Grizzle, but there's some specific quality in the voice I feel like I'm missing there.

[00:01:04] They don't make guys like me.

[00:01:06] They don't make guys like that anymore.

[00:01:08] Can I chime in already?

[00:01:09] Yes, please.

[00:01:10] I think he's deceptively hard to do.

[00:01:12] He is.

[00:01:13] Because I watched in my research, I watched a clip of him on a special that Rich Little was on, The Eminent.

[00:01:19] Okay. Yes.

[00:01:20] Biggest impressionist of the 70s.

[00:01:22] Right.

[00:01:23] And there's a bit where Rich does George to George's face.

[00:01:26] Yes.

[00:01:27] And frankly, no disrespect to Rich Little.

[00:01:29] No, I think I want you to disrespect him.

[00:01:31] I don't think he quite nailed it.

[00:01:32] I think it was as good as what you just did.

[00:01:34] Interesting.

[00:01:35] I have long found, I've complained about it on this very podcast, that Rich Little is weirdly overrated.

[00:01:41] Rich Little mid is a take we have.

[00:01:43] And you'll watch these clips of him doing exactly this, of him going to Carson and being, you know, doing Carson in front of Carson.

[00:01:49] And you expect like, man, Carson's voice is about to come out of this man.

[00:01:53] Instead you're like, oh, this is like a fine impression.

[00:01:56] Maybe it's generational.

[00:01:57] When I grew up, Rich Little was the impressionist in the 70s.

[00:02:00] So number one.

[00:02:01] So he just equals impressions to me.

[00:02:03] But like you watch it now and he just seems fine.

[00:02:06] I remember, I think towards the end of his life.

[00:02:10] If we're going to talk about Rich Little on any episode, this is a good one.

[00:02:14] Towards the end of his life.

[00:02:16] Rich Little's life.

[00:02:17] Nope.

[00:02:18] Introducing a new person.

[00:02:19] Frank Gorshin did a George Burns one man show off Broadway called Say Goodnight Gracie.

[00:02:26] Oh yeah, sure.

[00:02:27] And I remember seeing a poster and being like, Gorshin's a good visual fit.

[00:02:32] I wonder.

[00:02:33] And he's a great impressionist.

[00:02:35] Gorshin's really good and bells are ringing.

[00:02:37] He does a really funny Marlon Brando impression.

[00:02:40] I'm just wondering if Gorshin nailed it.

[00:02:42] I think he did.

[00:02:44] I think Gorshin may have a little more dimension.

[00:02:47] I think Gorshin may be.

[00:02:48] Here's the thing.

[00:02:49] I'll argue this 100%.

[00:02:52] And there's, here's the thing.

[00:02:54] In the movie of The Late Shift that Betty Thomas directed.

[00:02:59] The Letterman-Leno Wars.

[00:03:01] One of the great films.

[00:03:03] Gosh.

[00:03:04] John Michael Higgins and Dan Roebuck.

[00:03:07] Dan Roebuck plays Leno, the teen murderer from River's Edge.

[00:03:11] Which seemed like a very appropriate casting.

[00:03:13] He was in Lost Arts.

[00:03:15] He gets dynamited.

[00:03:16] But they're playing Johnny Carson, Letterman's confidant and mentor is Rich Little.

[00:03:24] Because presumably Rich Little can do a Johnny Carson impression.

[00:03:27] He said he could do a famous Carson and I thought it was not as good as mine.

[00:03:30] I think he does a good Carson impression but he's not an actor.

[00:03:33] And you need a real actor in that role.

[00:03:36] Don't worry about, I think that's the one major misfire of The Late Shift.

[00:03:40] The casting of Rich Little as Johnny Carson.

[00:03:42] A deeply watchable movie.

[00:03:43] My buddies, our buddies at Podcast the Rider are obsessed with The Late Shift.

[00:03:47] And watch it like biannually.

[00:03:49] Well just like the utter nicheness of like let's do a TV movie about this recent change.

[00:03:55] It was like 94.

[00:03:56] It was like not long, oh no 96.

[00:03:59] But still, pretty soon.

[00:04:01] That stuff was news.

[00:04:02] It was a huge pop cultural event.

[00:04:04] But look, I mean you, I said this last time you were on, I'm going to say it again.

[00:04:08] You're one of my favorite people to talk about acting with.

[00:04:11] And I remember you and I having a conversation about how good John Michael Higgins was in The Late Shift.

[00:04:17] That that was the time you first noticed him.

[00:04:19] Ah, that makes sense.

[00:04:20] And what feels like it should be an impossible role to pull off.

[00:04:23] Letterman would really make fun of him.

[00:04:25] Letterman liked to roast that performance.

[00:04:27] Took a lot of swipes at him.

[00:04:28] But I think his is the very good performance.

[00:04:30] Yes.

[00:04:31] Roebuck is totally fine as Leno, but Leno is so cartoonish as a person.

[00:04:35] He's a little easier to do.

[00:04:37] And Kathy Bates is like going to the fucking mat.

[00:04:39] Kathy Bates is a great part for her.

[00:04:41] Or Lou Rudel.

[00:04:42] Right, yeah, she's Mormon natal.

[00:04:43] David, what do you mean about Leno?

[00:04:45] There's just, you know, there's something about that guy.

[00:04:48] Really?

[00:04:49] Hey Ben, you ever notice this?

[00:04:50] There's something.

[00:04:51] Hey Ben, hey Ben.

[00:04:53] There's something.

[00:04:55] That's the only Leno I have is just saying here's something.

[00:04:58] Here's something.

[00:05:01] What's Leno doing?

[00:05:02] Is he around?

[00:05:03] Oh, he got like set on fire.

[00:05:04] He was set on fire.

[00:05:05] Yeah.

[00:05:06] Which I shouldn't make fun of.

[00:05:07] And then he, and then I've talked about this in the podcast.

[00:05:09] But have you heard about this?

[00:05:10] Yeah, I remember he was in an accident.

[00:05:12] I don't remember the details.

[00:05:13] I've talked about this on the podcast,

[00:05:14] but he did like his exclusive first interview after they did like the skin grafts

[00:05:19] and he had recovered.

[00:05:20] And I forget what news show it was part of.

[00:05:22] It was Today Show or whatever.

[00:05:24] But he wouldn't stop making jokes about it.

[00:05:27] And whoever it was interviewing him, like Robin Roberts or I think it was Savannah Guthrie,

[00:05:31] was like, Jay, but seriously, are you okay?

[00:05:33] Hey, who cares about me?

[00:05:34] No one wants to hear me talk seriously.

[00:05:36] And they were like, you almost died.

[00:05:37] You can talk about this if you're so sure.

[00:05:39] You can talk seriously.

[00:05:40] Hey, who do you have?

[00:05:41] No one wants to hear a millionaire complain.

[00:05:43] The weird thing about Rich Little, I already have said this.

[00:05:46] It's like you can go see him perform now and he'll do like a Jack Benny impression.

[00:05:50] Yes.

[00:05:51] And it's like, the cultural context required at this point for a Rich Little performer.

[00:05:57] He's passed, hasn't he?

[00:05:58] No, he's still alive.

[00:05:59] Oh, he is?

[00:06:00] Oh my goodness.

[00:06:01] He is 85 years old.

[00:06:03] Here he is as Jack Benny at like the comedy store.

[00:06:06] Insane.

[00:06:07] Like recently-ish.

[00:06:08] Yes.

[00:06:09] Wow.

[00:06:10] That's amazing because there's a great sketch on,

[00:06:13] there's an I think you should leave sketch where very young people,

[00:06:18] like Z-Lenials are at a party and they all recognize that a man has shown up as a Johnny Carson impersonator.

[00:06:24] For me, the funniest joke of the sketch was that a bunch of 23 year olds know who Johnny Carson is.

[00:06:28] Yes.

[00:06:29] That he's such a part of the culture that even they-

[00:06:31] I thought you were going to say the opposite.

[00:06:32] The Heidecker charade sketch where he keeps putting obscure jazz musicians in it.

[00:06:36] That one's awesome.

[00:06:37] Griffin, Griffin.

[00:06:38] Who's Dan Wonk or whatever that is?

[00:06:40] For those who don't know, that's about a Gen Xer at a party who's dating a millennial.

[00:06:45] Yes.

[00:06:46] And they're playing celebrity and all his, the Gen Xer is doing all, not only Gen X references but old timey references.

[00:06:52] Right.

[00:06:53] Some of which are made up for the sketch.

[00:06:54] Gen X nostalgia.

[00:06:56] Right.

[00:06:57] They start out real and get more absurd.

[00:06:59] I felt like I was having my skin taken off.

[00:07:02] That hit so hard.

[00:07:04] Yes.

[00:07:05] It was incredibly funny but also-

[00:07:07] In the writer's room, they were actually like, let's sock it to her, Banny.

[00:07:10] Well, that's what it felt like.

[00:07:11] Yeah.

[00:07:12] Well, this is a big old timey episode.

[00:07:17] It is.

[00:07:18] We're going to be talking a lot of old timey showbiz here on this episode.

[00:07:21] And thank you for asking me to be on this.

[00:07:24] Well, I'm going to say why we had you on in a second but this is Blank Check with Griffin and David.

[00:07:28] I'm Griffin.

[00:07:29] I'm David and I'm just realizing we don't know what this miniseries is called.

[00:07:32] I know what it's called.

[00:07:33] I figured you did.

[00:07:34] I texted it to James.

[00:07:35] I've had it locked in.

[00:07:36] You didn't text it to me.

[00:07:37] Because he texted asking me what it was going to be.

[00:07:39] Oh, sure.

[00:07:40] Except they were in pitches.

[00:07:41] I knew you had already thought of all the things I texted you.

[00:07:43] I was just curious.

[00:07:44] Yeah.

[00:07:45] So this is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers.

[00:07:50] Yes, undoubtedly.

[00:07:51] Giving a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

[00:07:55] Sometimes those checks clear.

[00:07:56] Sometimes they bounce baby.

[00:07:58] Sometimes they bounce baby.

[00:08:00] See, I can't do any of that.

[00:08:01] Sometimes they bounce.

[00:08:02] Is that a little bit close?

[00:08:03] Sometimes they bounce.

[00:08:04] There's the cigar in the-

[00:08:07] We'll get to this because there's a very precise management of energy that he does.

[00:08:12] That's true.

[00:08:13] There's a very-

[00:08:14] No.

[00:08:15] Yeah.

[00:08:16] It's masterful.

[00:08:17] This is a masterful performance.

[00:08:19] I mean, he burns us incredible.

[00:08:22] Unbelievable in this.

[00:08:23] In my opinion, he should have won all four acting categories at the Oscars this year.

[00:08:27] Wait.

[00:08:28] Well, you're going to have to-

[00:08:29] Oh, just as an homage to his great skill.

[00:08:32] Yeah.

[00:08:33] I mean, people are like, there's no best supporting actress this year.

[00:08:35] Only George Burns again.

[00:08:37] Come on stage please, sir.

[00:08:38] Thank you very much.

[00:08:39] Yeah, right.

[00:08:40] This is a mini series on the films of Martin Brass.

[00:08:42] Someone-

[00:08:43] We're kicking it off here with this one, but someone who had what we were discussing off

[00:08:48] mic pre-record, the kind of classical blank check arc we originally built this show around.

[00:08:54] 100%.

[00:08:55] Always has.

[00:08:56] Like the perfect kind of-

[00:08:57] The show could have been conceived around his filmography.

[00:09:01] It was a huge success.

[00:09:02] The series of blank checks bounced.

[00:09:03] I feel like just one of the earliest people we thought of for this show.

[00:09:08] Because of Gigli, because of like this sort of meet Joe Black Gigli ending, we probably

[00:09:13] were often building around famous bombs and then going outward.

[00:09:18] And at the time we started the show, he hadn't made a movie in over 10 years.

[00:09:22] And nine years later, he still has not made another film.

[00:09:25] We're talking about Martin Brass.

[00:09:26] The great Martin Brass for the next couple months.

[00:09:29] Yeah, just what?

[00:09:30] Seven weeks?

[00:09:31] We're going to be some breast men.

[00:09:32] We are.

[00:09:33] We're the breast men.

[00:09:35] And this series is called Podverly Hillscast.

[00:09:39] Nice.

[00:09:40] Which is one of a reference-

[00:09:42] Thank you.

[00:09:43] Thank you.

[00:09:44] One of his big breasted hits, if I may.

[00:09:47] B-R-E-S-T.

[00:09:48] Okay.

[00:09:49] Am I allowed to say that for this mini-

[00:09:51] You can say big breasted.

[00:09:52] I'm allowed to say big breasted hit.

[00:09:54] Do you agree, Ben?

[00:09:55] Yeah.

[00:09:56] As long as you spell it without an A.

[00:09:57] It's acceptable.

[00:09:58] I'm allowed to say big breasted hit.

[00:09:59] Okay.

[00:10:00] Yes.

[00:10:01] So you didn't want to do pod of a scent cast?

[00:10:04] No, I wanted to do podverly.

[00:10:06] I said to James, I said, podverly is such a good word.

[00:10:09] It's going to be a pleasure to say on mic.

[00:10:11] It's going to hit the ear beautifully.

[00:10:13] It has good mouth feel.

[00:10:14] For weeks on end.

[00:10:15] It has great mouth feel.

[00:10:16] I don't know if it's hitting the ear beautifully.

[00:10:17] It's rattling in.

[00:10:18] Podverly Hillscast.

[00:10:20] It's not like a three pointer where it's just nothing but net.

[00:10:24] There's a couple bounces.

[00:10:26] Yeah, but that's adding tension.

[00:10:27] That makes it all the more satisfying when it goes through.

[00:10:29] Did you consider meet podcast?

[00:10:31] I did and here's what I landed on instead.

[00:10:33] Podverly Hillscast.

[00:10:36] Podverly Hillscast.

[00:10:39] Today we're talking about his first commercially released film.

[00:10:43] He had a very kind of successful, unusually successful short film

[00:10:48] that got a lot of traction, a lot of play, including being aired on SNL.

[00:10:52] And then he went to AFI, made a thesis feature length film that got seen to some extent,

[00:10:58] but mostly was sort of a calling card movie for him.

[00:11:00] This is his first studio movie, the first film to get wide release.

[00:11:03] Those two things I just mentioned, Hot Dogs for Gauguin and Hot Tomorrows,

[00:11:08] we will be covering on Patreon.

[00:11:10] Yes, we are.

[00:11:11] But this is his first real.

[00:11:14] Full breasted movie.

[00:11:15] Yeah.

[00:11:16] If I can say that.

[00:11:17] Ample breasted film.

[00:11:18] Okay.

[00:11:19] Okay.

[00:11:20] We got to nip this punning in the bud pretty soon.

[00:11:22] I think so.

[00:11:23] You just allowed me.

[00:11:24] I opened the door on it.

[00:11:26] And I can't say no to movie stars.

[00:11:29] Because I had to be the first one to say big breasted hits.

[00:11:32] Of course.

[00:11:33] You get to set the precedent.

[00:11:34] Because I needed to.

[00:11:36] Return to the show.

[00:11:38] He's back.

[00:11:39] My dear friend.

[00:11:40] Yes.

[00:11:41] One of our finest actors.

[00:11:42] Well, I mean, yes.

[00:11:44] Last time.

[00:11:45] Had you been on Oppenheimer?

[00:11:46] No.

[00:11:47] You filmed it but it hadn't come out.

[00:11:49] No, I think the last time.

[00:11:51] I was a guest just almost a year ago.

[00:11:53] It was May of last year.

[00:11:54] Right.

[00:11:55] We're recording this in April.

[00:11:56] That's right.

[00:11:57] You had, right.

[00:11:58] Obviously Oppenheimer came out in July.

[00:12:00] Yeah, I must have just done Oppenheimer.

[00:12:02] You had recently been in West Side Story.

[00:12:04] Yes.

[00:12:05] And so we discussed that.

[00:12:06] I mean, Fablements.

[00:12:07] I always confuse the two.

[00:12:08] Because you're in a gym.

[00:12:09] Yeah, and I'm a high school principal.

[00:12:11] Both films feature a high school gym.

[00:12:13] Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:14] And both of those movies have friends of the show in them.

[00:12:16] That's right.

[00:12:17] I once was like, there's three friends of the show in the West Side Story scene.

[00:12:21] But no, you're in the Fablements scene, of course.

[00:12:23] Yeah.

[00:12:24] No, I mean, you, a highly esteemed actor, incredible career.

[00:12:28] I'm only doing ten-pole movies.

[00:12:30] Of course.

[00:12:31] That's my new thing.

[00:12:32] No more of this indie bullshit.

[00:12:33] Well, also trying to only be in films that have to be covered on blank check because

[00:12:37] they're previous directors we've covered.

[00:12:39] Yes.

[00:12:40] You already had an incredible career under your belt last year when you were on the show.

[00:12:46] But since then, America, nay the world, saw you stare at the sky in IMAX.

[00:12:52] True.

[00:12:53] A transformative effect.

[00:12:54] Indeed.

[00:12:55] Saw Einstein Tut about you.

[00:12:56] Yeah.

[00:12:57] Watch me play with my little hat in IMAX where my hat was as big as a Volkswagen.

[00:13:02] Humongous.

[00:13:03] And the resolution, the detail.

[00:13:04] You could see every pore in my relatively good skin.

[00:13:08] Tom Conti nice?

[00:13:09] Very nice.

[00:13:10] We were both staying in the same hotel in Princeton when we shot that scene at Princeton.

[00:13:15] It's set at Princeton.

[00:13:16] Right.

[00:13:17] Did you actually shoot it at the, what's it called, research?

[00:13:20] I don't know if that place still exists.

[00:13:22] It does.

[00:13:23] It does.

[00:13:24] It does.

[00:13:25] No, we actually shot it at the university which is not where that scene is set.

[00:13:27] Okay.

[00:13:28] But the adjacent research place.

[00:13:30] I would see him, my first morning there I saw him eating breakfast in the hotel.

[00:13:36] Nolan or?

[00:13:37] No, Mr. Tom Conti who plays Einstein.

[00:13:39] Nolan doesn't eat breakfast.

[00:13:40] No, Nolan and Mr. Murphy were not staying in the hotel that I was staying at.

[00:13:44] Smartphones, no breakfast.

[00:13:45] With Tom Conti which is perfectly nice.

[00:13:46] The Conti Hotel is still nice.

[00:13:48] It was like a Westin.

[00:13:49] It was just your standard, you know.

[00:13:51] But I saw him and I thought, oh there's Einstein.

[00:13:54] But I was a little shy.

[00:13:55] I actually didn't want to bother him because I was like, I'll see him on the set tomorrow

[00:13:58] and I'll talk to him then.

[00:13:59] And was it just one day?

[00:14:00] It was.

[00:14:01] It was just one day.

[00:14:02] People talk about how surprisingly fast Nolan works.

[00:14:05] Well, my only context is that scene which is a relatively simple scene with three people

[00:14:10] in it that goes by quickly without a lot of setups.

[00:14:13] But it did go by pretty quickly.

[00:14:15] Yeah, that's what I've heard from everybody.

[00:14:17] How loud is the dang IMAX camera?

[00:14:19] That's a good question.

[00:14:20] That was insane.

[00:14:21] It was like making a silent movie in 1918.

[00:14:22] It was like.

[00:14:23] Yeah, that's what's it.

[00:14:25] Benny Safty says it sounds like a lawnmower.

[00:14:27] I was completely befuddled.

[00:14:30] I mean, and I didn't do any ADR.

[00:14:33] So somehow they captured.

[00:14:35] Look, it is weirdly under discussed when people talk about.

[00:14:38] Well, Killian had a big microphone in his hat.

[00:14:40] That's why he has to wear it all the time.

[00:14:42] But people talk about like, why is the sound mixing weird in Nolan movies?

[00:14:46] Why can you sometimes not hear dialogue and whatever?

[00:14:48] And what I've always heard is that like he doesn't like ADR.

[00:14:52] He thinks ADR sticks out and he loves to shoot with these loud cameras.

[00:14:57] And so instead he's muffling the camera sound, which then maybe has some ripple effect on the dialogue.

[00:15:03] Tom Conti, the only actor my mother ever wrote a fan letter to.

[00:15:07] Which I believe.

[00:15:08] Did I not bring that up on here?

[00:15:09] What year did she write this?

[00:15:10] He was in.

[00:15:11] It was last year after she saw Alpenheimer.

[00:15:13] Was this for the Norman Conquests on PBS?

[00:15:15] No, although what a wonderful pull and I love the Norman Conquests.

[00:15:18] Was it the Broadway production of Whose Life Is It Anyway?

[00:15:21] There you go.

[00:15:22] That's right.

[00:15:23] She saw him in that.

[00:15:24] I know my Conti.

[00:15:25] She saw him in that on Broadway.

[00:15:26] So she would have been.

[00:15:27] How lovely.

[00:15:28] I was like 79.

[00:15:29] So she would have been like, you know, 26, 27.

[00:15:31] And she wrote to him care of the theater?

[00:15:33] That's actually a good question.

[00:15:34] How did she get in?

[00:15:36] But yeah, either care of the theater or maybe his management or something.

[00:15:40] And he replied.

[00:15:42] That's lovely.

[00:15:43] Well, he was a very nice guy.

[00:15:45] But she said it was the only time she had been so affected by something,

[00:15:49] you know, some performance that she felt moved to write a letter.

[00:15:52] And I remember I grew up in New Jersey.

[00:15:55] So when I didn't see that show, but when it was on Broadway,

[00:15:58] I was in high school and they had a local TV commercial for it.

[00:16:03] And it was Tom Conti speaking as himself saying,

[00:16:05] my name is Tom Conti.

[00:16:07] Hello, dear boy.

[00:16:08] Yeah, hello, dear audience.

[00:16:09] I'll be on Friends in 20 years or so.

[00:16:11] I'm in this play called Whose Life Is It Anyway?

[00:16:13] And it's about a man who's paralyzed, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:16:17] And then he said something to the effect of,

[00:16:19] and it has such a remarkable effect on audiences.

[00:16:22] So the thing you're just describing is what he was selling.

[00:16:24] And he was right.

[00:16:25] He was right.

[00:16:26] His mother would lose her lip.

[00:16:27] I got a letter from a Mrs.

[00:16:29] A Ms.

[00:16:30] Well, whatever her name was at the time.

[00:16:32] It's still her name, Toposky.

[00:16:33] Yes, by a young lady named Toposky.

[00:16:35] Yes, right.

[00:16:36] I mean, I just think about it.

[00:16:38] And I can see her teardrops on this very piece of paper.

[00:16:40] He also said, someday Colin Mochrie and Ryan Stiles

[00:16:44] will make a whole career riffing on the title of this play.

[00:16:47] For humorous effect.

[00:16:49] Yes.

[00:16:50] And there is humor in the play.

[00:16:51] He'll read Brady too, but he'll have other things going on.

[00:16:54] Yes, he'll sort of branch out.

[00:16:55] And Mochrie will really kind of pitch his tent here.

[00:16:58] I will one day play Albert Einstein.

[00:17:01] Me!

[00:17:02] In a Y-Mas film, he didn't quite have IMAX right.

[00:17:06] Right, right.

[00:17:07] Incredible.

[00:17:08] Forgetting even some of the letters.

[00:17:09] Some letters.

[00:17:10] But it won't be about him.

[00:17:11] I'll just be off to the side.

[00:17:12] Some New Jersey upstart.

[00:17:14] With a very handsome young character.

[00:17:16] Well, not that young.

[00:17:18] Anyway.

[00:17:19] Look up at the sky.

[00:17:20] James, as I said, you're one of my favorite people

[00:17:22] to talk about acting with.

[00:17:24] A thing that often I feel like people struggle to have

[00:17:27] the language for.

[00:17:29] I certainly feel like I struggle with it.

[00:17:30] I find you often find that critics struggle to really understand

[00:17:35] sort of on a process level.

[00:17:37] And I think many great actors also,

[00:17:39] the process is sort of so deeply ingrained in them

[00:17:44] and kind of unknown that it's hard for them to express themselves.

[00:17:47] And when it comes out, it often comes out in very pretentious ways

[00:17:50] where I feel like you've had this very,

[00:17:53] always had this very strong language for sort of

[00:17:55] a brass tacks analysis of sort of acting styles

[00:17:59] and people's effects on screen and on stage.

[00:18:01] It's just something that I've always been interested.

[00:18:03] I think I was compelled by this when I was very young

[00:18:06] before I even knew I wanted to be an actor.

[00:18:10] I remember a few years ago,

[00:18:13] a character actor named Jack Riley died.

[00:18:15] Jack Riley played Mr. Carlin on the Bob Newhart show,

[00:18:18] the sort of misanthropic.

[00:18:20] He was on many episodes of Night Court.

[00:18:23] A lot of TV in the seventies and eighties.

[00:18:25] Or Mary Tyler Moore show.

[00:18:26] Yeah, Mary Tyler Moore show.

[00:18:27] He was on a couple of times, I think,

[00:18:29] actually playing different parts.

[00:18:30] You know who else he was?

[00:18:31] I was going to say.

[00:18:32] It was Stu Pickles in Rugrats.

[00:18:34] Okay, that's after my time.

[00:18:35] I know that's after your time.

[00:18:36] So I don't know him from then.

[00:18:37] David has contended that is the hottest man

[00:18:39] in the history of animation is the tired dad on Rugrats.

[00:18:42] I think he's good looking.

[00:18:43] I'm not saying he's the hottest.

[00:18:44] Anyway.

[00:18:45] But I will tell you that when I was a kid,

[00:18:48] I would watch the Bob Newhart show during its original run

[00:18:52] and Mr. Carlin was this sort of, for lack of a better word,

[00:18:56] deadpan sort of character who was kind of a misanthrope

[00:19:00] and a sad sack.

[00:19:03] And Jack Riley just had this sort of

[00:19:06] very contained quality to his acting.

[00:19:08] It was very funny.

[00:19:09] You know, he just talked about how depressed he is

[00:19:11] and his voice always sort of stayed at this level.

[00:19:15] And I thought it was really funny.

[00:19:17] And then when he died a couple of years ago,

[00:19:18] I thought, oh, Jack Riley, I always loved him.

[00:19:20] And I realized when I was 10 years old,

[00:19:23] he was my favorite character on Newhart.

[00:19:25] And I'm sure because it was some incipient interest

[00:19:28] in the technique of acting

[00:19:31] that I was actually drawn towards his performing technique.

[00:19:35] And the fact is that sort of internal kind of,

[00:19:39] that's actually an area that I get cast in sometimes.

[00:19:42] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:19:43] And in fact, I think George Burns

[00:19:45] is actually very good at that in a certain way,

[00:19:47] this sort of contained energy.

[00:19:49] Yeah.

[00:19:50] So I think, so my point is,

[00:19:52] I think from an early age,

[00:19:53] I was drawn to the technical aspects of acting

[00:19:56] before I even knew the vocabulary or knew what that was.

[00:19:59] I didn't just think Mr. Carlin was funny.

[00:20:02] I was compelled by what Jack Riley was doing,

[00:20:04] even though I didn't understand that at the time.

[00:20:06] I just wanted to double check my facts here

[00:20:09] because I watched both Mary Tyler Moore and Night Court

[00:20:11] in the pandemic, in sort of mushy brain era

[00:20:15] in their entirety.

[00:20:16] He's, he was on two episodes of Mary Tyler Moore

[00:20:19] and he was on seven episodes of Night Court.

[00:20:21] And in all cases,

[00:20:22] he played an entirely different character on each episode.

[00:20:25] This is a great thing that Law & Order did this in New York too.

[00:20:29] They would cast the same actor six times

[00:20:31] over the course of a few years.

[00:20:32] Law & Order is the only one that still does it.

[00:20:34] I wish they'd keep doing it because I need to work.

[00:20:36] It was fun to like watch, well, yes,

[00:20:38] but it was also fun to watch Night Court

[00:20:41] and be like, oh, two seasons later,

[00:20:43] here's Jack Riley as an entirely different guy.

[00:20:45] And he wasn't transforming himself.

[00:20:47] He had a very specific style.

[00:20:48] Yeah, but who's checking?

[00:20:49] He's doing his Jack Riley thing.

[00:20:51] And it was just like, this guy always scores, bring him back.

[00:20:53] Exactly.

[00:20:54] If it's been 35 episodes,

[00:20:56] put a different suit on him and introduce him as a new guy.

[00:20:59] Yeah. And if some people remember, it doesn't matter.

[00:21:01] We all know this is make-believe.

[00:21:03] Who gives a shit?

[00:21:04] Griffin Neumann going to be watching this in the pandemic

[00:21:05] on Amazon freebie four years from now?

[00:21:07] No, I want them to bring that.

[00:21:08] I want TV producers to bring back the,

[00:21:11] the multiple guest shot where you play different characters.

[00:21:14] Cause you and I would clean up.

[00:21:15] Oh, even show out Griffin, just buy that sucker.

[00:21:19] You're suffering through the ads.

[00:21:21] Well now, now I bought the whole series on iTunes.

[00:21:24] The point here is I went to see,

[00:21:26] you were doing a play in Los Angeles.

[00:21:28] Yes, just last month.

[00:21:30] And you happened to be in LA.

[00:21:31] Brushstroke.

[00:21:32] You saw it.

[00:21:33] Brendan Hines.

[00:21:34] Friend of the show.

[00:21:35] Dear friend of the show.

[00:21:36] The great Malcolm Barrett.

[00:21:38] Great Malcolm Barrett.

[00:21:39] Who I'd never met before,

[00:21:40] but been a fan of for a long time.

[00:21:41] You were excellent in the show.

[00:21:43] And we went out for drinks and chips afterwards at a Mexican place nearby.

[00:21:48] And you said,

[00:21:49] so who do you have coming up on blank check?

[00:21:51] And I said,

[00:21:52] Martin breast.

[00:21:53] And you went,

[00:21:54] ah, going in style.

[00:21:55] You immediately.

[00:21:56] Did I not the first thing many would say?

[00:21:58] I would say,

[00:21:59] you know,

[00:22:00] right.

[00:22:01] Most people would probably go for Beverly Hills cops.

[00:22:02] And then you ran down the rest of that.

[00:22:04] I was like,

[00:22:05] I think then I said to you,

[00:22:06] who are you getting from midnight run?

[00:22:07] Cause that's obviously the,

[00:22:08] the brass,

[00:22:09] right.

[00:22:10] It's the apex.

[00:22:11] You said that.

[00:22:12] But,

[00:22:13] but the first words out of your mouth were,

[00:22:15] ah,

[00:22:16] going in style and just hearing you say the title in your voice.

[00:22:19] It pinned in my head and I texted Sims and I said,

[00:22:22] we should get fucking our Baniac for going in style.

[00:22:25] That's like,

[00:22:26] I didn't throw up a wall.

[00:22:27] Like,

[00:22:28] like perfect.

[00:22:29] Well,

[00:22:30] thank.

[00:22:31] Well,

[00:22:32] I'm glad you did.

[00:22:33] Thank you.

[00:22:34] Malcolm Barrett.

[00:22:35] So funny.

[00:22:36] And I'm better off Ted,

[00:22:37] which I feel like not enough people talk about that show.

[00:22:38] You love it anymore.

[00:22:39] Very good show.

[00:22:40] Yeah.

[00:22:41] I mean,

[00:22:42] for many reasons,

[00:22:43] I thought it's Malcolm's a brilliant actor as a lover of old timey things.

[00:22:45] And that is a thing that you and I bonded over.

[00:22:47] And this star is three old timey things.

[00:22:50] It's stars,

[00:22:51] three old timey things.

[00:22:52] And also sort of like three legends of show business who I would argue had very different acting styles.

[00:22:58] 100%.

[00:22:59] And yet one of the things that is fascinating,

[00:23:01] they harmonize beautifully,

[00:23:02] but you're watching a match of them on paper does actually does not make sense except that they're the same age.

[00:23:09] And how much of this movie plays out in three shots,

[00:23:11] like masterful extended unbroken three shots,

[00:23:15] especially straw.

[00:23:16] Well,

[00:23:17] we'll get into this.

[00:23:18] We'll get into it.

[00:23:19] This is because Brest is very much an actress director and Martin Brest loves.

[00:23:23] And you'll get into this over the course of the series.

[00:23:25] He loves actors and he loves what he gets from actors.

[00:23:28] He also loves movie stars,

[00:23:30] but he loves all actors,

[00:23:31] even the small down to the smallest supporting roles.

[00:23:34] So he'll just he likes.

[00:23:37] And he likes behavioral energy.

[00:23:39] Yes.

[00:23:40] So in all his films,

[00:23:42] there will be kind of long takes that aren't broken up.

[00:23:47] That are low on action that are just people behaving.

[00:23:50] And there's some fantastic behavioral scenes in this movie.

[00:23:54] This is a movie that is like truly might be 15% footage of very old men sitting in silence next to each other.

[00:24:02] Making coffee or whatever.

[00:24:03] Right.

[00:24:04] Yeah.

[00:24:05] Just like being in a kitchen.

[00:24:06] Just adjacent quiet stillness.

[00:24:07] Or in a park.

[00:24:08] Or mild sort of like puttering around.

[00:24:11] And it is utterly captivating.

[00:24:14] This movie just sort of like has incredible confidence in that.

[00:24:20] In never leaning on what I assumed this movie was going to lean on.

[00:24:24] Absolutely.

[00:24:25] Hilarious old guy hijinks.

[00:24:27] Yes, because it's a high concept pitch.

[00:24:31] On paper.

[00:24:32] These three old men decide to pull off a bank job.

[00:24:34] Right.

[00:24:36] And the kind of movie that could very easily be made, remade in a very obvious way.

[00:24:41] By a sitcom star.

[00:24:42] That's my I haven't seen the remake.

[00:24:44] But from what I've gleaned, that's a little more where that.

[00:24:46] Exactly what you would imagine.

[00:24:48] And like you could see like okay the remake is the worst version of what was a more delicately handled version of a high concept comedy.

[00:24:56] Rather than this movie which is really like a pretty sobering meditation on the rejection of old people in society.

[00:25:03] Like Martin Brest is also a great comedy director.

[00:25:06] But the movie doesn't lead with the comedy.

[00:25:08] The comedy resonates out of the situation.

[00:25:10] It is deeply funny.

[00:25:12] And the thing is of the three actors, two of them are basically comic actors.

[00:25:16] Right.

[00:25:17] George Burns is a comedian.

[00:25:19] Art Carney was known as a comic actor.

[00:25:23] Yeah.

[00:25:24] And who also did like impressions and sketch comedy.

[00:25:27] One guy whose background is Scott like Mr. Dramatic Acting Lee Strasberg.

[00:25:32] The man who synthesizes the method.

[00:25:34] Right.

[00:25:35] Exactly.

[00:25:36] You have that.

[00:25:37] You have a guy whose training is basically like adjacent to clowning and one guy whose background is primarily stand up.

[00:25:42] And then you've got a guy how old is Martin at the time 28 or something.

[00:25:45] That's the craziest part.

[00:25:46] He's in his mid 20s.

[00:25:48] And he wrote the script.

[00:25:49] He wrote the script and he seems to totally understand what it is to be a septuagenarian.

[00:25:53] And these three older gentlemen.

[00:25:56] Yeah.

[00:25:57] Although Art Carney is actually my age when he made the film.

[00:25:59] Art Carney is 60.

[00:26:01] He's got.

[00:26:02] Which by the way, James, you look incredible.

[00:26:03] Thank you.

[00:26:04] He's got Wilfred Brimley energy.

[00:26:05] I want to get Greta and Boulder and Fetter because I think I'll get more work now that I'm 60.

[00:26:10] But all three of those gentlemen understand the assignment.

[00:26:13] And it's a 1979 movie.

[00:26:15] So there is still a little element of 70s naturalism.

[00:26:18] Absolutely.

[00:26:19] Going on in the film.

[00:26:20] And they all get what they're there to do.

[00:26:24] It's great.

[00:26:25] Everyone's on the same page.

[00:26:26] I watched this movie for the first time probably 10 or 15, 10 or 12 years ago.

[00:26:33] It was when you remember when Warner Archive briefly had their own streaming service.

[00:26:39] I do.

[00:26:40] Which then turned into Filmstruck, which then became Criterion.

[00:26:42] Back when they were just like, just put them online.

[00:26:44] Who cares?

[00:26:45] Right.

[00:26:46] Because this movie was out of circulation for a while.

[00:26:48] Still is not on Blu-ray.

[00:26:50] Is that right?

[00:26:51] Correct.

[00:26:52] Unfortunately.

[00:26:53] I bought it on iTunes.

[00:26:54] When I had become like sort of breast-pilled.

[00:26:56] Very good.

[00:26:57] Thank you.

[00:26:58] Ding!

[00:26:59] Thank you.

[00:27:00] Just putting a little, I have an abacus here and you just got a point.

[00:27:05] When I was just sort of sticking my nose in between breasts.

[00:27:10] Motorboating between my breasts.

[00:27:13] It's gone.

[00:27:14] It went away.

[00:27:15] You ruined it so quickly.

[00:27:17] I went too far?

[00:27:18] I saw this film was on the Warner Archive thing and I was like, oh, that movie is actually

[00:27:23] kind of hard to see.

[00:27:24] And I watched it and loved it and have like cited it to people as sort of an undersung

[00:27:28] gem.

[00:27:29] And then rewatched it last night and I, about 15 minutes in was like, is this a full-bore

[00:27:34] masterpiece?

[00:27:35] Do I think this is like a great American movie with capital letters?

[00:27:38] I think it's a very good film.

[00:27:40] I think there's really, there's little complaint you can have about it.

[00:27:44] It is small, right?

[00:27:46] It's like.

[00:27:47] 100% it's small.

[00:27:48] You know, but that's to its credit.

[00:27:50] Yes, it's restrained.

[00:27:52] It's modest, but that's part of its power.

[00:27:54] Thank you.

[00:27:55] 100%.

[00:27:56] And then later Mr. Breast will actually lean into grander stories.

[00:28:00] Gets very big.

[00:28:01] Yes.

[00:28:02] And the saxophone will come in on the score.

[00:28:05] And after his great success in these big, big breasted comedy hits.

[00:28:09] Well, and we're back.

[00:28:11] Then when you're in the, you're in the center of the woman and meet Joe Black, you're telling

[00:28:15] grander stories which are novelistic.

[00:28:18] Whereas this apparently was actually based on a short story.

[00:28:21] And the movie is like a short story.

[00:28:23] And that's its power.

[00:28:24] The economy and the smallness of it is actually the power of the film.

[00:28:27] It might just be the mood I'm in or whatever.

[00:28:30] But last night this was hitting me so hard.

[00:28:32] And part of it was just like my deep appreciation for the simple power of it.

[00:28:39] Of course.

[00:28:40] I have no objection.

[00:28:42] I was completely impressed by this movie.

[00:28:44] Yes.

[00:28:46] Now I was just thinking, I don't remember if I'd seen it before.

[00:28:49] I watched it for this podcast.

[00:28:53] And I remember when it came out because I was in high school in 1979.

[00:28:59] And one thing I've always remembered for some reason is an interview.

[00:29:03] Tom Conti.

[00:29:04] An interview that George Burns did about promoting the movie.

[00:29:08] And I remember George Burns.

[00:29:09] That's maybe a little close.

[00:29:11] I had it for a second.

[00:29:12] But I remember an interview where George Burns said,

[00:29:15] It's directed by this very smart kid, Martin Brest.

[00:29:18] I remember him calling him very smart.

[00:29:20] And then he gave an example of this.

[00:29:22] And he said that George Burns said that he had ad-libbed a line.

[00:29:26] And that Martin Brest said,

[00:29:28] That's a very funny George Burns joke but it's not a good Al joke.

[00:29:34] No, no, or rather Joe.

[00:29:36] Joe is George's character.

[00:29:38] And then George Burns appreciated that.

[00:29:40] And then said to the interviewer,

[00:29:42] You see what I mean? Smart.

[00:29:44] And for some reason that has stayed with me for like 40 years.

[00:29:47] If I were directing Going in Style.

[00:29:50] If I were for some reason at the age of 20, whatever, 27,

[00:29:53] put in charge of these three guys,

[00:29:55] Three legends basically.

[00:29:57] Three legends.

[00:29:58] Two Oscar winners here.

[00:30:00] And then Lee Strasberg who's no slouch.

[00:30:02] Recent nominee.

[00:30:03] Recent nominee, of course.

[00:30:05] And they started doing bits.

[00:30:08] I would certainly be too afraid, I think,

[00:30:10] to try and reign George Burns in.

[00:30:12] And yet clearly that is how he got such a wonderful performance out of him.

[00:30:16] It is astounding that he had the level of insight

[00:30:21] as a 27-year-old

[00:30:23] to execute this movie as both a writer and a director

[00:30:26] in terms of the subject matter, right?

[00:30:28] And the specificity of it.

[00:30:30] It is astounding the level of command he had over craft.

[00:30:33] But in a way, the single most impressive thing

[00:30:35] is that he earned the respect and trust of those three guys as a 27-year-old.

[00:30:40] That they not only agreed to do the movie,

[00:30:43] but in the dossier that JJ put together,

[00:30:46] there's quotes from all three of them where they were like,

[00:30:48] two days in I was like, this guy knows what he's doing.

[00:30:50] I trust him. I'm in his hands.

[00:30:52] We will, yeah, exactly.

[00:30:53] We will discuss it.

[00:30:54] I mean, it's so weird.

[00:30:56] Considering he got started in his 20s,

[00:30:59] Martin Brest should have like 20 films under his belt.

[00:31:04] He was already spacing them out before.

[00:31:07] Yeah, before he stopped making them.

[00:31:09] Right, before G. Lee lands like an atom bomb.

[00:31:13] Griffin, it's the same dilemma every year.

[00:31:17] What do you get the man who already has everything?

[00:31:21] Put down those slippers. Get away from the ties.

[00:31:24] It's Father's Day.

[00:31:25] You want to get your dad something unexpected.

[00:31:27] An Aura digital frame.

[00:31:30] Ben, do you know about these?

[00:31:31] I do know about these.

[00:31:33] Let's tell our listeners in case they're not familiar.

[00:31:35] No, I think we should just assume everyone knows

[00:31:37] and I'll just stop talking about it.

[00:31:39] And, you know, we can just move back on to the conversation

[00:31:42] about the film that we're discussing today.

[00:31:44] All right, now I'll tell you about that.

[00:31:47] Look, there are these beautiful Wi-Fi connected digital frames.

[00:31:49] They allow you to share and display unlimited photos.

[00:31:52] You can upload and share your photos using a super easy Aura app.

[00:31:56] And if you're giving it as a gift, you can personalize the frame.

[00:31:59] You can preload photos and memories onto it.

[00:32:01] Okay?

[00:32:02] So that's not just one damn photo.

[00:32:04] No, that's the thing.

[00:32:05] For years we toiled with picture frames that could only have one photo.

[00:32:10] Which one?

[00:32:11] Well, I posted it!

[00:32:13] And then it's hard to take it out.

[00:32:14] And then what if it like falls?

[00:32:15] You know how sometimes they kind of fall to the side

[00:32:17] and like get weird and you know, you got to fix it?

[00:32:20] Yeah.

[00:32:21] Aura frames, not like that at all.

[00:32:23] Because you just upload photos to it.

[00:32:24] It can slideshow through them.

[00:32:26] You know, you can do all kinds of stuff.

[00:32:27] It's in 130 gift guides.

[00:32:29] One of Oprah's favorite things.

[00:32:31] We like her.

[00:32:33] It takes about two minutes to set up.

[00:32:35] You know, it comes packaged in a premium gift box.

[00:32:38] So you don't even need to wrap it for Father's Day or any other day.

[00:32:43] This thing is dad proof.

[00:32:44] Yes.

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[00:33:02] Weird that Griffin didn't want to weigh in on that, but whatever.

[00:33:05] Anyway, okay.

[00:33:08] So what do you know about Martin Bress?

[00:33:09] Because I can tell you some things.

[00:33:11] Born in 1951, August 8th.

[00:33:13] In the Bronx.

[00:33:14] My wedding anniversary.

[00:33:15] Well, well, well.

[00:33:17] In the Bronx.

[00:33:18] That's right.

[00:33:19] Jewish Eastern European immigrants.

[00:33:23] They give him a classic, you know, Bronx.

[00:33:28] Jew upbringing.

[00:33:29] I feel like David was miming a stamp.

[00:33:32] It's just a lot of laundry out on the line, right?

[00:33:36] Go on further.

[00:33:37] Come on.

[00:33:38] You got your Manhattan Italian Martin.

[00:33:41] Sure.

[00:33:42] A little earlier.

[00:33:43] Gorcheezy.

[00:33:44] Little shirt down a little early.

[00:33:46] Now you got your Bronx Jewish Mart.

[00:33:48] You know, taking the, taking the circling around each other.

[00:33:51] Taking the Grand Concourse line and going to the, that's right.

[00:33:55] Going to the deli.

[00:33:56] Right.

[00:33:57] And Martin Ritt on the other side of the country going, what about me?

[00:33:59] Yeah, yeah.

[00:34:00] What about me?

[00:34:02] Let's see.

[00:34:03] You know, this is, you know, he says, I remember my father sitting at the table reading the Jewish paper and I was watching television and a dog food commercial came on and he looked up and he saw.

[00:34:13] Martin Ritt was born in New York City.

[00:34:15] In the Bronx.

[00:34:16] Well, there you go.

[00:34:17] Hang your head in shame.

[00:34:18] Let me finish this dog food anecdote.

[00:34:19] Please.

[00:34:20] Sorry.

[00:34:21] This is Martin Bress.

[00:34:22] And he looks up and sees not only do they make special food for dogs in America, whereas any one of his family would starve to death under millions of circumstances, but they advertise it.

[00:34:32] And my father looked up and he said in Yiddish, Das ist Amerika.

[00:34:35] And that was a truck wagon commercial directed by Marty DeBergia, the director of This Is Spinal Tape.

[00:34:42] And that is when Martin Bress fell in love with cinema, of course.

[00:34:45] Yes, exactly.

[00:34:46] I do love that idea of like these sort of immigrant Jews being like, this is why we came here.

[00:34:52] And yet also, I, you know, I will never understand quite what this is, this country.

[00:34:58] And it's Meshuggah.

[00:35:00] Yes.

[00:35:01] All right.

[00:35:03] Yeah.

[00:35:04] You know.

[00:35:05] Loves the honeymooners, relates to the honeymooners, according to the Wikipedia.

[00:35:09] That makes sense.

[00:35:10] He went to Stuyvesant High School, which obviously is a smarty pants public school specialty high school.

[00:35:17] Malcolm Barrett went, I believe.

[00:35:19] You are correct.

[00:35:21] You are correct.

[00:35:22] Did he go to Stuyvesant?

[00:35:23] I only know that because I just Googled him.

[00:35:24] Wow.

[00:35:25] He went to Stuy.

[00:35:26] Marty says it was like Stalag 17.

[00:35:28] No one would bathe.

[00:35:29] Everyone was horny as hell.

[00:35:31] All these ultra extraordinarily bright working class Delore middle class kids, a lot of them schlepping in from the Bronx or Brooklyn with their monster briefcases.

[00:35:39] It's an interesting time.

[00:35:40] He went to NYU, which his father thought was not sensible.

[00:35:44] He went as a film major.

[00:35:46] So this would have been in like the 60s.

[00:35:48] Yes.

[00:35:49] The late 60s.

[00:35:50] My mom has a very close friend who went to NYU and he likes to say, I went to NYU and it was bad.

[00:35:54] You know, because NYU became this like hot school.

[00:35:57] But like back in the 60s and 70s, it was a very like, you know, not a glitzy school in the slightest.

[00:36:02] No.

[00:36:03] The other fascinating thing is that by his own account, he was not like a major cinephile.

[00:36:08] It almost feels a little arbitrary that he ended up landing there.

[00:36:11] And then the sort of passion.

[00:36:12] No, he says not right.

[00:36:14] Like he was not talking about Antonioni and how to move the camera.

[00:36:17] And he said, I was like, why would you want to move the camera?

[00:36:21] I like the little rascals like just point the camera at him.

[00:36:24] And he even says like his favorite thing growing up were low rascals, which quote, technically are horrendous, bad angles, terrible editing.

[00:36:33] And I almost couldn't shake that sort of dopey technique.

[00:36:37] That's interesting.

[00:36:38] I mean, because this movie is obviously simply made.

[00:36:40] Right.

[00:36:41] But like I would not call it amateurish or like badly done.

[00:36:44] It's not like he was like, well, I was so studious about the little rascals.

[00:36:48] I came to film school trying to continue the tradition of Hal Roach.

[00:36:53] He was just kind of like, yeah, there's like some movies I like.

[00:36:55] He, like a lot of people, credits the Million Dollar Movie.

[00:36:58] I think a lot of people of his generation will talk about the Million Dollar Movie, which was a channel where they would play the same movie multiple times within the given week.

[00:37:06] And it was often an old classic film.

[00:37:07] This is back.

[00:37:08] And I remember something they got for cheap.

[00:37:10] I remember the end of this era because I was born in 63.

[00:37:13] Sure.

[00:37:14] In New Jersey.

[00:37:15] And we got all the New York stations.

[00:37:17] So the first old movie I fell in love with was King Kong.

[00:37:20] Oh, yeah.

[00:37:21] Because I think it was it was either Channel 9 or Channel 11.

[00:37:24] I forget which one.

[00:37:25] But one of those local channels, for some reason, every Thanksgiving, they would show King Kong, which makes no sense.

[00:37:30] There's not a Thanksgiving.

[00:37:32] There's no Thanksgiving theme.

[00:37:34] I mean, they give thanks that they've caught King Kong.

[00:37:35] Yeah.

[00:37:36] Up to a point.

[00:37:37] Yes.

[00:37:38] But I was entranced by all the mysterious quality of this 1930s black and white film with this early stop motion.

[00:37:50] There was something very compelling to me about that.

[00:37:52] And I'm sure it's the same way to a lot of people who watch like these old films.

[00:37:55] But there's also something about the distance of them that's.

[00:37:58] Yes.

[00:37:59] That actually draws you to them.

[00:38:00] I feel like I just heard a lot of major film people of this generation talk about, especially grew up in the tri-state area.

[00:38:09] The influence of the Million Dollar Movie were because of whatever licensing agreement they had.

[00:38:13] Whatever movie was playing that week would play nine times within that given week.

[00:38:17] It would play every day and twice on the weekends.

[00:38:19] And he was like, it's not like I was a movie movie obsessive, but I really was starting to teach myself from watching the same film nine times, even if I wasn't obsessed with that.

[00:38:28] There's no home video.

[00:38:31] There's nothing like that.

[00:38:33] So you just kind of stumble upon these things which are just shown locally.

[00:38:36] And if you have some incipient desire to do this or some connection to it that you don't even understand yet, that's very powerful.

[00:38:44] Seeing these images.

[00:38:46] His quote was to be able to see the same movie four or five times in one week was a revelation because you could start to see, even if you were unconsciously looking at it,

[00:38:53] if you felt the experience, you were able to then somehow subliminally see how that experience was constructed to make the impact on you.

[00:39:01] Um, yeah.

[00:39:03] Proto film school.

[00:39:05] 100%. And then he goes to actual film school.

[00:39:07] His father wanted him to become, I want to check here, a sheet metal worker.

[00:39:10] Makes sense.

[00:39:12] An apprentice in local 28.

[00:39:14] He says, you're going to make $400 a week if you do that.

[00:39:16] And he said, Papa, I want to be a director.

[00:39:18] I got to dance.

[00:39:19] That's really funny.

[00:39:21] Like, he's been warning us that this guy is very quick.

[00:39:23] He actually said, I got to dance like Adam Goldberg in the film.

[00:39:26] He claims he says that it's written phonetically.

[00:39:29] Got to dance.

[00:39:31] It's a metaphor.

[00:39:33] But he was a classic comedy.

[00:39:35] It was Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin and The Little Rascals.

[00:39:37] Honeymooners.

[00:39:39] And then he ends up casting Art Carney.

[00:39:41] Yes, of course.

[00:39:43] Who was the only one of the three guys who he wrote the part for.

[00:39:45] That's interesting.

[00:39:46] I believed as Art Carney as the Al.

[00:39:48] You're too young to have been watching The Honeymooners live.

[00:39:51] Right?

[00:39:53] That was a 50s show.

[00:39:55] Yeah, it was 50s.

[00:39:57] But it was heavily syndication in New York.

[00:39:59] It was on like every day at like 11 o'clock.

[00:40:01] The way he talks about it is the way a lot of people that I, you know,

[00:40:03] boomers that I know, not, not, I'm not saying boomers now,

[00:40:06] like everyone's mean about.

[00:40:08] David's holding up an accusatory finger.

[00:40:10] You know, like where like this is a show about working class people.

[00:40:13] Like it was the first show they'd ever seen about working class people.

[00:40:16] By the way, there's an old Burns and Schreiber who were a comedy team.

[00:40:19] Oh yeah.

[00:40:21] There's an old Burns and Schreiber routine where every Schreiber is talking to Burns

[00:40:25] and Burns says, Burns like an Irish guy.

[00:40:27] So you're a Jew, excuse me.

[00:40:29] And then Schreiber says, hey, Jew is not a derogatory term.

[00:40:32] So I just like boomers not necessarily a derogatory term.

[00:40:35] Even though it can be used that way.

[00:40:37] Now everyone, you know, oh, you know, you just,

[00:40:39] you forget how to do anything.

[00:40:41] I just wanted to chime that.

[00:40:43] Hey, boomers not a derogatory term.

[00:40:44] No, no.

[00:40:46] Your point is that the sitcoms used to be about sort of idealized perfect families.

[00:40:50] Often.

[00:40:52] The honeymooners, they live in Brooklyn.

[00:40:54] They're working class.

[00:40:56] They have blue collar jobs.

[00:40:58] And he says this was a show made for my neighborhood.

[00:41:00] Ralph Crandon, the angry soul whose spirit blossoms.

[00:41:02] That was a character he, you know, like really.

[00:41:04] Yeah.

[00:41:05] And it's Jackie Gleason is street.

[00:41:07] He's got a street quality.

[00:41:09] Very different than Father Knows Best or whatever.

[00:41:11] Yeah.

[00:41:12] Okay.

[00:41:13] So he goes to NYU.

[00:41:15] He crossed over with Amy Heckerling.

[00:41:17] He was friends with her there.

[00:41:19] They dated.

[00:41:21] Yes, they dated.

[00:41:23] She has an amazing quote about him.

[00:41:25] I'm too here.

[00:41:27] She said he was the coolest.

[00:41:29] There were a few people that everybody knew were going to make it and he was one of them.

[00:41:31] And then her other quote was sometimes he does such stupid self-destructive things that you just want to punch him.

[00:41:33] When we were going out.

[00:41:35] I can't count how many broken bones he had.

[00:41:37] Amazing.

[00:41:39] By the way, sort of talk about.

[00:41:40] I have met Amy Heckerling and she is a cool lady.

[00:41:42] She seems cool.

[00:41:44] So that was that was very good that Marty snagged Amy Heckerling.

[00:41:46] That's pretty cool.

[00:41:48] And she has a very attractive New York accent.

[00:41:50] Oh, yeah.

[00:41:52] He pops up briefly on camera in hot dogs for Gauguin.

[00:41:54] And he looks fucking hot.

[00:41:56] He's hot as hell.

[00:41:58] No, he's even really cute in Fast Times.

[00:42:00] He's in the.

[00:42:02] He's in the.

[00:42:04] He's in the.

[00:42:06] He's in the.

[00:42:08] He's in the.

[00:42:10] He's in the.

[00:42:12] He's short hot dogs for Gauguin.

[00:42:14] He is on the subway with Rhea Perlman.

[00:42:16] Yes.

[00:42:17] And I'm watching it going, who is that?

[00:42:19] Who's this young slice?

[00:42:21] I'm not saying that at the end.

[00:42:23] I saw the credits and went, that was Martin Breast.

[00:42:25] I'm not saying he aged poorly, but you have not watched hot dogs.

[00:42:27] Not yet.

[00:42:29] He's got this little smirk on his face.

[00:42:31] It does jump out where you're like, that's a fucking pretty man.

[00:42:33] He and Amy were walking into parties in 1970 and people were like, what just happened?

[00:42:38] Yeah.

[00:42:40] All right.

[00:42:42] So he's a sure breast breast.

[00:42:44] He's confident.

[00:42:46] OK, so he makes hot dogs for Gauguin.

[00:42:48] It's very well regarded.

[00:42:50] Not known.

[00:42:52] Mr. Danny DeVito and of course, Rhea Perlman, future husband and wife there.

[00:42:55] It sort of pointed to like almost like the fable Godspell performance of like all of these people when they were unknown worked on this one thing together.

[00:43:03] The DP is Jacques Hathken, who's well known for shooting West Craven movies.

[00:43:07] Right.

[00:43:09] Almost everyone involved in this went on to have a serious career.

[00:43:11] William Duff Griffin is his friend who was actually a prominent stage actor in New York back in the 70s and stuff.

[00:43:16] Um, applies to AFI with it.

[00:43:19] They they they initially apparently had rejected him, but then they saw the short film and they they accepted him to become an AFI student.

[00:43:27] By his own admission, he wrote a sort of like, I don't know, fuck you kind of admissions essay.

[00:43:31] Right.

[00:43:32] And they were like, who's this punk?

[00:43:34] And then when they saw the movie, they were like, we kind of can't question this guy.

[00:43:35] But let's skip past that because we're going to talk about hot dogs.

[00:43:39] We can't we can't do the whole origin.

[00:43:41] Let's do the origin story of going in style.

[00:43:43] OK, OK.

[00:43:45] Edward Cannon.

[00:43:46] The point is, though, he makes it goes to AFI.

[00:43:49] He makes Hot Tomorrows and Hot Tomorrows gets sort of sent around Hollywood.

[00:43:53] The studios see it and they go, this guy undeniably knows how to make a picture.

[00:43:56] He pitches this idea for going in style.

[00:43:59] Well, Edward Cannon was originally the film was originally called Stepping Out, which is a pretty bad title.

[00:44:03] Going in style is a very good title.

[00:44:05] Much better.

[00:44:07] Edward Cannon, a 49 year old carpenter from Queens, had this idea for a story about old men seeking glory via bank robbery.

[00:44:13] Records it to tape.

[00:44:15] It gets in the hands of Leonard Gaines, a friend of Marty Brest's, who is the producer on this movie.

[00:44:20] He this guy gives the tape to Brest and Brest buys the rights to it.

[00:44:26] It's sort of it's not really even a short story.

[00:44:29] It's like someone just said an idea for a movie.

[00:44:31] Based on a cassette.

[00:44:33] You know, there was another famous carpenter who told parables and didn't write them down.

[00:44:39] Yeah. Other people had to spread his word.

[00:44:41] He was the tape recorder of his day.

[00:44:43] And I think he also had a Queens accent.

[00:44:45] It was the mount.

[00:44:47] Well, it depends if Martin Scorsese is making it real.

[00:44:49] Consider the lilies.

[00:44:51] So wait, this guy just recorded this thing and it just made its way.

[00:44:55] Is it truly just the guy being like, these three guys, they're old guys, you know, and they want to rob a bank.

[00:44:59] So they do that. You know, I don't know how much of his idea is here.

[00:45:04] So this was never published?

[00:45:06] No. Never published. And it doesn't have a credit in the movie.

[00:45:09] It's literally like based on a story said out loud.

[00:45:13] I think the movie has a credit saying based on a story by Edward King.

[00:45:17] Oh, yeah. Okay. You're right. You're right. It does. Okay.

[00:45:19] But I didn't realize the story was just something he recorded on his Radio Shack cassette.

[00:45:23] Yeah. We don't know that it was Radio Shack.

[00:45:26] Yes, it was. Trust me.

[00:45:27] So Brest goes, pitches this movie to Warner Brothers.

[00:45:32] They go, sounds good. Let's find a writer for it.

[00:45:35] They go around looking for a writer. No one's biting. He's like, can I just take a strike at this?

[00:45:40] Brest in the Bronx fashion does the wiggling thumbs to himself.

[00:45:43] This guy right here.

[00:45:45] Writer right here.

[00:45:47] But they almost treat it like, I don't know why not. We'll have someone else rewrite his thing.

[00:45:49] At least it gets a first draft out. And everyone's like, this script is fucking great.

[00:45:53] Jay Presson Allen is busy.

[00:45:54] Yeah. There were three writers at that time.

[00:45:57] Yeah, William Goldman couldn't do it.

[00:46:00] He's handed a $5.5 million budget, which is a major budget, obviously.

[00:46:05] So they're like, you better cast some real actors here.

[00:46:08] Art Carney, as you say, was the only choice for Al.

[00:46:13] But the original choice for Lee Strasberg's part of Willie was an actor called Barnard Hughes.

[00:46:21] Barnard Hughes, a fine actor.

[00:46:24] He's a great actor.

[00:46:26] I feel like a guy where it's like, you have seen him in at least one movie as an old guy.

[00:46:30] He had a very good long old guy career.

[00:46:32] Only played old guys his whole life. He's a midnight cowboy playing an old guy.

[00:46:35] He's in Doc Hollywood. He's in tons of stuff.

[00:46:37] And Burgess Meredith makes a ton of sense.

[00:46:40] As the George Burns guy.

[00:46:42] Would have killed on his own terms. One of the great actors.

[00:46:45] Absolutely. A legendary stickman.

[00:46:47] A legendary stickman, but also just like the wrinkles and crags on his face.

[00:46:51] The voice comes out in a different place, a different acting style.

[00:46:54] But unfortunately, the most famous actor in Hollywood was George Burns.

[00:46:59] He had just won an Oscar like three years ago.

[00:47:02] Amazing career resurgence.

[00:47:04] And then he did Oh God, which was like a hit.

[00:47:07] We have to pull over to the side of the road for a second to just explain the bizarre phenomenon of George Burns.

[00:47:13] Right. The sort of like old vaudevillian man.

[00:47:16] It's sort of like Betty White or something like that kind of thing of like a sixth act from the movie.

[00:47:21] I'm not a fan of this performer.

[00:47:23] George Burns is not in a movie between 1949 and 75. Is that right?

[00:47:29] 39, 39 and 75.

[00:47:33] He's in Honolulu in 1939, a classic old Golden Age musical.

[00:47:38] And then the sunshine like fucking couples act of Burns and Allen.

[00:47:41] Right. His wife, Chrissy Allen. Exactly.

[00:47:43] He goes from being a vaudeville guy to a radio guy to a TV guy.

[00:47:46] He was huge in radio. And then like a lot of people of that generation saw the opportunity for TV.

[00:47:53] Lucille Ball's another one. Right.

[00:47:55] And and then became a huge TV star and actually did some very inventive stuff.

[00:47:59] Famously, like his TV was like the template for the first for not Larry Sanders.

[00:48:04] Sure. But the what you call it?

[00:48:07] Yes. Yes. The one before.

[00:48:09] It's Gary Shandling. Gary Shandling show.

[00:48:10] Gary Shandling show. He talks to the I remember at the time everyone was like,

[00:48:14] this is like the George Burns show where he talked to the camera.

[00:48:17] Yes. Bringing that back. I've never seen Burns now, but he's the straight man. Right.

[00:48:21] Like she's the wacky. This is the thing. Yes.

[00:48:23] George Burns comedy thing is he's a straight man and she's flighty and says wacky, crazy stuff.

[00:48:30] Right. And he's like, what are you talking about? What did you say? Right.

[00:48:33] But then yeah, he has. But then she retires in the 50s.

[00:48:38] The two of them is a double act. We're as big as anybody in comedy.

[00:48:42] They were married for 40 years.

[00:48:44] She was long dead by the time this movie came. She died in 64.

[00:48:47] His famous catchphrase. I mean, their line was, say goodnight, Gracie.

[00:48:51] And then she would say, goodnight, Gracie. The classic joke.

[00:48:54] It's pretty funny. Yeah.

[00:48:56] But when people would do impressions of George Burns, that's what they would say.

[00:48:59] They were so associated with each other. She passes away.

[00:49:02] You have to imagine people viewed it as like, well, look,

[00:49:04] these dinosaurs of a bygone era of American entertainment.

[00:49:09] She passed away. He probably will die in the next two years.

[00:49:12] She'd actually she'd retired a few years before she died. Yeah.

[00:49:15] So then he's solo. And that actually is very successful as a TV producer.

[00:49:19] He did other TV shows that he starred in that she wasn't in.

[00:49:23] And then she dies and then go on. I don't know.

[00:49:27] You're right. I mean, he mostly does TV and he does like play car.

[00:49:31] And then what was the first big as the Sunshine Boys?

[00:49:34] It's the thing when people are so like kind of inextricably tied to each other

[00:49:42] and like creative partnerships like that, and especially like very, very long marriages.

[00:49:46] You often find that like if one person dies, the other one dies pretty shortly thereafter.

[00:49:51] Sure. There's some sort of like symbiotic relationship of they were so dependent on each other.

[00:49:56] The other person sort of loses the will. Yes.

[00:49:59] And it's like George Burns is still alive.

[00:50:01] His wife, who he was always associated with, has passed.

[00:50:05] He's still around, but it's in this sort of like elder statesman capacity.

[00:50:09] And also when he was a young man, he was kind of puttering around vaudeville and just hadn't broken through.

[00:50:17] And then when he met her, it was they became a double act.

[00:50:20] That was what made it all happen. Yeah. So so and that his strength,

[00:50:24] which was that very sort of restrained, just I'm just kind of dealing with the situation.

[00:50:29] And and then what he's it's always about his dryness set against something.

[00:50:35] Yes. So when his career explodes, it's because that when he came out by himself in vaudeville,

[00:50:41] it wasn't set against anything and people it wasn't land.

[00:50:44] Then when it's set against this kind of woman doing this kind of crazy lady thing.

[00:50:49] By the way, Gracie was a very talented comedian.

[00:50:52] Really, really funny, like really good. But she was the energy of the.

[00:50:55] And they also the two of them also have a wonderful sort of spontaneity.

[00:50:59] They're doing all these scripted jokes, but there's a real sort of spontaneity in life.

[00:51:03] If you listen to their radio show and I've seen it, I haven't seen a lot.

[00:51:06] I've seen some of the TV show, but she's she was really, really good.

[00:51:10] But it's all about her energy sort of set against his dryness.

[00:51:15] Yes. And then when the Sunshine Boys happens, which was a Broadway play that he wasn't in.

[00:51:20] So the whole thing with it, right, was that it was supposed to be OK.

[00:51:23] First was supposed to be Hope and Crosby. This is a Sunshine Boys or Herbert Ross.

[00:51:27] The movie version, the movie version. They they fascinate.

[00:51:30] They decide I think it's Neil Simon is like absolutely not.

[00:51:34] You need Jewish performers. It's a movie about old vaudeville young guys.

[00:51:37] Then they then they decide Red Skelton and Jack Penny.

[00:51:42] OK, Red Skelton realizes that. Not bad.

[00:51:45] I don't trust Red Skelton to deliver the goods.

[00:51:48] Red Skelton realizes, you know, the thing about Red Skelton, too.

[00:51:50] Also, he's annoying. Never had a dinner.

[00:51:53] That's right. That's red buttons. Goddamn it.

[00:51:56] You got the wrong red. Oh, my God. Red Buttons. Better actor than you.

[00:52:00] So you can't pull out the wrong red in front of Jimmy or Bannay at Griffin Newman.

[00:52:05] I would be embarrassed making that mistake under any circumstance.

[00:52:09] By the way, this is so you have the character in that sketch.

[00:52:12] I'm embarrassed for myself that I corrected you.

[00:52:15] And I'm embarrassed that I forced you to correct me.

[00:52:17] Red Skelton. But I appreciate the effort.

[00:52:20] Yeah, Red Skelton realizes he can make more money on the road than being in The Sunshine Boys.

[00:52:25] And also he's annoying and not fun.

[00:52:27] Yes. Jack Benny realizes that he is old and he dies.

[00:52:31] Has pancreatic cancer. He does.

[00:52:33] Jack Benny would have been great. Jack Benny would have killed it.

[00:52:36] Benny, much bigger star and was a close friend of George Burns.

[00:52:40] By the way, can I just do a sidebar? Do you know who is in the original Broadway cast?

[00:52:44] No. Sam Levine. Not the Star Freaks and Gates.

[00:52:47] That'd be weird.

[00:52:49] There was an older actor named Sam Levine.

[00:52:51] I was a great guy. I was in the original Guys and Dolls and stuff and did movies.

[00:52:55] And Jack Albertson. Chico and the Man, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

[00:52:59] But they probably, the two of them were not considered, despite the splendor of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,

[00:53:06] were not considered maybe big enough.

[00:53:08] George Burns?

[00:53:10] George Burns is essentially Jack Benny's very good friend and he subs in.

[00:53:14] Last minute substitution.

[00:53:16] In Grief, he's very sad.

[00:53:18] And then Walter Matthau who is probably in his 50s.

[00:53:21] Is doing the sort of Art Carney age up.

[00:53:24] And Walter Matthau has a very flamboyant acting style.

[00:53:29] And is really getting into, I'm an old Jewish vaudevillian!

[00:53:34] It's great. I love Matthew in the movie.

[00:53:36] I do too.

[00:53:38] But again, part of the power of Burns is his dryness set against mayhem.

[00:53:42] It's one of the rare films in which he mugs. He never really would.

[00:53:47] But I think it works for the character because he's this old vaudevillian who's striving.

[00:53:52] But again, here's the power of Burns. You set him against something.

[00:53:55] So it was Grace and her flighty ideas.

[00:53:57] Now it's Matthau and his kind of hyper vaudevillian who doesn't want to stop.

[00:54:05] And Burns' character is past it. He's retired.

[00:54:08] He doesn't want to get the old team back together.

[00:54:09] So you have the perfect set up for Burns' strength.

[00:54:15] Which is his, you know, it's David Spade and Chris Farley if you will.

[00:54:20] If I may be permitted a comparison.

[00:54:22] Absolutely. George Burns.

[00:54:24] It's the nut and the guy who's like, just come on.

[00:54:27] George Burns, a man who was born in the 1800s.

[00:54:31] Whose first on-camera credit is Lamb Chops, an eight minute Vitaphone comedy short.

[00:54:36] And then doesn't appear in a film for over 30 years.

[00:54:42] Gets this part as a last minute sub in for his friend and wins an Oscar.

[00:54:47] Wins an Academy Award at the age of 80.

[00:54:49] He was the oldest Oscar winner in the history of the Academy Awards.

[00:54:52] And he's fucking great in that movie.

[00:54:54] But what's astounding is you have to imagine people were like,

[00:54:57] what a nice sort of stage bow for this legendary career.

[00:55:01] I think that's partly why he won the Oscar of course.

[00:55:03] It was a, right, it was a, you know, God bless you.

[00:55:06] You're back.

[00:55:08] Now he's hot again.

[00:55:10] The public decides you are an A-list movie star.

[00:55:13] We want more of this guy in movies.

[00:55:15] Vehicles. We're building movies around you.

[00:55:17] You're going to have your own trilogy.

[00:55:19] Not just that, they're like, who would you work best with?

[00:55:22] John Denver. That's right. The two of you.

[00:55:24] You will be playing God, George Burns.

[00:55:26] What is this, a two-hander with Brooke Shields?

[00:55:29] Does he? What's that one?

[00:55:30] That one's called, what's it called?

[00:55:33] That's not, just you and me kid.

[00:55:36] I thought that was a remake of, is that a remake of Lamb Chops by the way?

[00:55:40] It might be. The story of two juvenile delinquents.

[00:55:43] But yes, he does, he does Oh God, just you and me kid,

[00:55:47] going in style, Oh God book two.

[00:55:50] Of course.

[00:55:52] Two of a kind.

[00:55:54] 18 again, which is a sort of body swap comedy type thing.

[00:55:56] Yes. Oh God, you devil and 18 again.

[00:55:57] And that's basically the end of his run from 75 to 88.

[00:56:02] And you're like, well, at that point he's really old.

[00:56:04] He must've retired, right? He must've died soon after.

[00:56:06] He lives another eight years.

[00:56:08] He makes it to 100.

[00:56:10] He lived to be 100 years old.

[00:56:12] I remember watching him show up on like award shows and variety specials as a kid

[00:56:16] in the mid nineties and being like, this is the oldest man who has ever lived.

[00:56:20] This is like a dinosaur is presenting an award.

[00:56:23] Like how are there still people alive who span the entirety of America

[00:56:27] and American popular comedy?

[00:56:29] It felt like he was this living history.

[00:56:31] He's like four years older than the 20th century.

[00:56:34] And at that point he has outlived his like victory lap Oscar

[00:56:39] when everyone was like, this guy's probably got 18 months left on this mortal coil.

[00:56:42] And going in style is just part of this like his,

[00:56:45] I can do anything I want era of his career.

[00:56:48] He, he it's estimated he smoked 300,000 cigarettes during his lifetime.

[00:56:52] Cool. Starting at the age of 14, never smoked a cigarette,

[00:56:54] never used marijuana saying I can't get any more.

[00:56:57] He's got cigars.

[00:56:59] Cause that was his go-to prop for the bulk of his comedy career.

[00:57:04] By the way, he's cigar less in going in style.

[00:57:07] I feel like again, right.

[00:57:09] To make, to make you realize like he's not just doing his shtick here.

[00:57:12] Like he's playing a real guy.

[00:57:14] He's playing a real guy, but the thing is, again,

[00:57:16] he is really giving a performance here.

[00:57:18] It's a character with a lot of dimension,

[00:57:20] but he's still, it's still the thing of the George Burns dryness set against something.

[00:57:24] It's set against the insanity of his idea, the plot.

[00:57:28] So that's, that's where he plays it so fucking straight.

[00:57:32] This is a really good George Burns line.

[00:57:34] Sure. So they call him, you know, he's 83 years old when he makes this movie.

[00:57:38] And if he's in the other room and he doesn't even know the phone is ringing,

[00:57:41] like the maid has to tell him because he can't hear it.

[00:57:43] Bob Shapiro, the producer says,

[00:57:46] George called me on the phone and said,

[00:57:48] when you said the director was young, I didn't think you meant this young.

[00:57:50] I've got ties older than him.

[00:57:52] Yes, sure. It's a great line. Incredible.

[00:57:54] But he liked, like you say, he liked the director.

[00:57:57] He and Marty sat down and tried on 150 different pairs of glasses to find a new look.

[00:58:03] Cause they were like, we can't have your usual glasses.

[00:58:06] Brant's just really smart about understanding what aspects of George Burns' star persona

[00:58:11] are useful for this movie and which ones do you have to push to the side to make him stand as his own character.

[00:58:16] And his comedy persona, he's kind of natty.

[00:58:18] He's really put together.

[00:58:20] If you watch him on TV, he wears really nice suits.

[00:58:24] He looks crisp and he's got these kind of stylish big glasses that he wore when he got older,

[00:58:29] but they look kind of stylish.

[00:58:31] You go to the club with him.

[00:58:33] He looks successful and kind of hip for an old guy.

[00:58:38] And in this, he looks frumpy.

[00:58:40] And he's playing kind of a grumpy frump or a frumpy grump.

[00:58:45] I mean a country club, to be clear, not like Studio 54.

[00:58:48] I got you.

[00:58:50] He probably was hit in 54.

[00:58:51] I'm going to tear it up if you let me.

[00:58:53] Smoking, taking cocaine with Truman Capote and Bianca Jagger.

[00:58:57] So he's in his 80s.

[00:58:59] And as you said, R. Carney is actually younger.

[00:59:02] He's in his 60s.

[00:59:04] Lee Strasberg is in his mid-70s.

[00:59:06] This is his last performance basically and he dies a couple years after this movie.

[00:59:09] It was a smaller version of what George Burns experienced,

[00:59:12] but this guy who like synthesized the method took from Stanislavski

[00:59:15] and built this whole sort of like school of acting thought in New York City

[00:59:18] and was seen as this guru to so many of the guys who become the big leading men.

[00:59:22] Not so much known as started as an actor, but became known as a great acting teacher.

[00:59:26] And talked about that like when he became obsessed with acting,

[00:59:29] he was like, I know what I look like.

[00:59:31] I don't have like star energy.

[00:59:33] I probably would not have the greatest career trying to pursue acting,

[00:59:37] but I'm so in love with this art form.

[00:59:39] Do I want to keep going to the lobby and signing in when I'm 75?

[00:59:42] Lee Strasberg, writer's and artist.

[00:59:44] He didn't have many acting credits.

[00:59:46] It wasn't a thing he seriously pursued.

[00:59:48] It was Pacino who really wanted him to play Hyman Roth in Godfather Part Two,

[00:59:53] which he gets an Oscar nomination for.

[00:59:55] And suddenly it's like Gordon Willis shoots those tufts on his chest so well too.

[01:00:00] That's right. But it's another thing where like, like George Burns,

[01:00:03] people are like, God, we have this guy who's like this living history of this like important movement.

[01:00:09] But I think now he's having his moment in the, in the, in the star, you know, in the spotlight.

[01:00:14] There's a nice, there's a nice meta thing of casting Hyman Roth as well.

[01:00:20] Because, because Strasberg's character going in style is the, is the meekest member of the team.

[01:00:27] Right. He's not a terrifying, psychotic gangster who will kill people at will.

[01:00:33] But he has one of like four or five years of doing a lot of movies and this is his last one.

[01:00:38] He, Strasberg says, I was not sure why Breast wanted me because these are two comic actors.

[01:00:44] It's not really my thing. But Breast said he wanted characters who appeared real and natural.

[01:00:49] The comedy would come from that. And Strasberg was like, okay, well that makes sense to me.

[01:00:54] Like I can't do gags for you, but I can play a real guy.

[01:00:57] Which he does astoundingly well. I mean, this is like a stunning performance.

[01:01:01] I mean, he's so good at this. He, like, I love him in The Godfather,

[01:01:05] but that does kind of feel more like Pacino being like, you know, oh, you know, you know,

[01:01:08] you know, Master Strasberg and like, you know, he's, he's, it's all restraint and it's brilliant and all that.

[01:01:14] But this, he's so wonderful. This is like an act-y role.

[01:01:17] He has his one big monologue in this that is devastating.

[01:01:19] But also just any time he's just sort of sitting in a shot, the presence of this guy,

[01:01:25] like the weight of this guy, I mean, like they're all playing different approaches to dealing with their age.

[01:01:32] And Burns feels like angry. Like Burns is frustrated at how old he is and how he's viewed by society.

[01:01:40] And Strasberg just seems so like bereft. He is so deeply sad.

[01:01:45] Absolutely. And this is the interesting thing, which is why do these guys do that?

[01:01:48] And there's not a lot of explaining. Apparently in the remake, they do the classic remake thing.

[01:01:53] Yes. They lost their country plan.

[01:01:55] I refused to watch the remake, but I was horrified to learn that right.

[01:01:59] It disobeys everything that's good about it.

[01:02:00] I read a review and I thought, oh, it's one of these things where they try to spell it out too much.

[01:02:05] But they're very distinct characters. And Burns just does seem to have some kind of, Burns' character has some sort of anger going on that makes this happen.

[01:02:18] And yes, Strasberg's character is bereft. Strasberg's character is living with regret.

[01:02:23] And there's this moving monologue he has about this incident where he spanked his son and then the son died young and they never got past that event.

[01:02:34] He didn't even make it to 18, the boy.

[01:02:36] That line is crushing. The boy either died in the war or killed himself.

[01:02:40] I'm guessing it suggests that he died in World War II because that would be the generation.

[01:02:45] That was my guess.

[01:02:47] And then Strasberg, they never reconciled.

[01:02:50] It was never the same between us.

[01:02:51] He lives with this regret.

[01:02:53] But just the fact that, like, I watched the monologue twice because I was so in it.

[01:02:57] And then I was like, wait, what was the boy's transgression? I've already lost the thread.

[01:03:01] And then you go back and he's like, I don't even know what it was.

[01:03:03] I don't know what he'd done. Like, I can't remember.

[01:03:05] But I had the exact same experience.

[01:03:07] I replayed it and watched the monologue twice in a row because I got so engrossed in the acting that I actually was missing the meat of what he was saying.

[01:03:13] I was like, this performance, the emotion he's conjuring.

[01:03:15] And up until that point, I mean, he dies.

[01:03:17] Spoilers at the 40 minute mark.

[01:03:20] He's the first to go in the terrifying slasher movie.

[01:03:24] Yes. Yeah.

[01:03:26] One guy dies at the end of every act of this movie.

[01:03:29] And he has the least dialogue of the three of them up until that point.

[01:03:32] That monologue comes like 30 minutes in and up until then, he's mostly just the sad, quiet guy.

[01:03:37] And just the feeling of regret within him is so palpable.

[01:03:41] He is just like silently conveying in every single moment that when the explanation comes, which Strasberg so beautifully underplays, it's like devastating.

[01:03:50] And that's I mean, not to get ahead, but that's where I really click into like, oh, this movie isn't just the sort of high concept version of wouldn't it be funny if grandpas robbed a bank.

[01:03:59] This is like a pretty sobering meditation.

[01:04:04] And there's also a very, it's not a very big point put on it, but there's some mild social commentary.

[01:04:13] Yes. These are three working class guys.

[01:04:16] They live in Queens.

[01:04:18] They live in Queens. We only kind of get hinted.

[01:04:21] We learned that Strasberg's Willie was a cab driver.

[01:04:26] And the only other career information we get is at one point, Art Carney's character mentions he worked as a bartender at one point.

[01:04:34] And we don't know what George Burns did, but they, we also learned that neither George nor Art Carney's character had ever been on a plane.

[01:04:44] So there are basically three provincial guys.

[01:04:46] They live in Queens. They're on social security.

[01:04:49] That's which is part of the reason George Burns decides to pull the job.

[01:04:52] And they're, they're kind of, they're three nobodies.

[01:04:56] They're old school guys who no longer really recognize the culture they live in.

[01:05:00] They also just have nothing to do.

[01:05:02] They seemingly do have families in some sense, but we don't know.

[01:05:06] Well, this is interesting because, yeah, because Al, Art Carney's character has a nephew.

[01:05:12] The only other speaking character in the film basically.

[01:05:15] Charles Hallahan.

[01:05:17] Hallahan from John Carpenter's The Thing.

[01:05:18] Oh, yeah.

[01:05:20] His stomach becomes a mouth and he kills Richard Dysart.

[01:05:23] Yeah, a great role.

[01:05:25] And he did all of that.

[01:05:27] He does all of it.

[01:05:29] He severed his own head when it goes spider legs.

[01:05:31] All his stomach stuff.

[01:05:33] But yeah, I was watching it going, who is this guy?

[01:05:37] I know this guy that I helped him up.

[01:05:39] Oh shit, he's part of the crew on The Thing.

[01:05:41] Of course. Now I remember.

[01:05:43] Kind of looks like John Ennis.

[01:05:45] Yes, that's true.

[01:05:46] Anyway, yeah, they're just sort of adrift.

[01:05:50] Yes.

[01:05:52] They're just sort of adrift.

[01:05:54] They live together.

[01:05:56] But yeah, he's the only family member.

[01:05:58] And later in the movie, George Burns looks through a scrapbook and we see like, we see a baby.

[01:06:02] But we don't know that he has any connection with a child.

[01:06:05] I believe that those are photos of the real Gracie Allen and George Burns' real child.

[01:06:10] Yeah, it's definitely Gracie Allen.

[01:06:12] It looks just like her.

[01:06:13] The other question is, are his kids estranged?

[01:06:17] Did they also...

[01:06:19] I think the lack of backstory is valuable.

[01:06:21] Because again, I'm reading about the Zach Braff remake, which it's what, Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman and...

[01:06:26] And Alan Arkin.

[01:06:28] On paper you're like, let's do the Academy Award winners.

[01:06:30] It's like, oh, their pensions get robbed by an evil banker.

[01:06:35] There's like motivations built into it.

[01:06:37] Which you understand some screenwriter looks at this movie and is like, well, it can't just be like they sit down.

[01:06:43] Yes.

[01:06:45] And are like, let's rob a bank.

[01:06:47] That doesn't make any sense.

[01:06:49] They need to be like getting one over on the man.

[01:06:51] And like Ted Melfi who wrote it has this quote that I won't read verbatim, but where he's just like, you know, I hadn't even seen the original movie, but I looked up what it was about.

[01:06:58] And I was like, two of the guys die and the third one goes to jail.

[01:07:00] That's not the kind of movie I want to write.

[01:07:02] Which again, I understand a 2017, like, you know, a studio then being like, yeah, it can't end like that.

[01:07:08] Were you saying you feel there should be more backstory?

[01:07:11] No, no, no.

[01:07:13] The thing about this movie is for the first like 10 minutes, you're seeing almost wordlessly three men with this relationship.

[01:07:20] You don't totally understand other than it feels like some situation of convenience.

[01:07:24] Three old guys must have known each other for a while who are not related, who all live together, who don't seem to have strong family ties, even if their family is alive.

[01:07:33] No, and I agree because I think there's a strength to later in the movie.

[01:07:36] George Burns looks at some at a box of scrapbook type stuff, keepsakes.

[01:07:40] And there's a picture of him with a baby and a birthday card for a two year old.

[01:07:45] And I'm like, I think his daughter is estranged from him.

[01:07:48] I think she's moved to California and like he's a mean old man.

[01:07:51] Right. These three guys didn't end up in a retirement home.

[01:07:53] There's a power to not really knowing.

[01:07:55] But their family's not taking care of them.

[01:07:57] They just found a way somehow they're in an apartment together and all they do basically is they silently eat breakfast.

[01:08:03] Then they go sit in the park.

[01:08:05] Then they shuffle back home.

[01:08:07] They hope that their pension check has arrived.

[01:08:08] And then Burns complains about things.

[01:08:11] Yeah.

[01:08:13] And like Art Carney kind of puts a bright spin on stuff and Lee Strasberg does nothing.

[01:08:17] He's the most affable of the trio.

[01:08:19] But if like Strasberg seems sad and Burns seems angry, Carney just seems kind of mortally bored.

[01:08:24] He's serious.

[01:08:26] And he's also a bit of an, he's sort of the most innocent of them two.

[01:08:29] He's a bit naive.

[01:08:31] He's also bigger. You know, he's, he sort of sticks out a little bit more than the other two.

[01:08:34] He's a large man and he has a kind of, one of the things I love about Art Carney's performance, which is magnificent,

[01:08:42] is that he's sort of employing his comedic vocabulary.

[01:08:47] You can see sort of Ed Norton, not the eminent movie actor, but Art Carney's character of Ed Norton on The Honeymooners.

[01:08:54] You see Ed Norton flourishes, but they're done more naturalistically.

[01:08:58] He was like, he played the actor Ed Norton on The Honeymooners.

[01:09:02] Of course.

[01:09:04] He was supposed to be Ed Norton before he broke through.

[01:09:06] I got this big audition for Primal Fear. They're looking for an unknown.

[01:09:09] They actually think it would be an asset to the role.

[01:09:12] He had his Yale diploma on the wall.

[01:09:14] Yeah.

[01:09:16] But Ed Norton's this guy who's like, was sort of the Bill Irwin of his time and was this hyper-physical clown.

[01:09:20] He's the clown of Kramer.

[01:09:22] Sorry, what did I say?

[01:09:24] You said Bill Irwin.

[01:09:26] No, he is a Bill Irwin.

[01:09:28] Art Carney was Ed Norton, which was a Bill Irwin type performance.

[01:09:30] But he has, Art Carney in the movie has this, it just comes out as spontaneous behavior.

[01:09:37] Yes.

[01:09:39] His Honeymooners character is a sitcom character, so he's more heightened. He's more comedia.

[01:09:44] And in this, like all of them, Art Carney gets the assignment.

[01:09:48] So all the comic flourishes come out very naturally and they're behavioral.

[01:09:53] And his body had changed so dramatically over decades where like he was always this super bony, lanky guy.

[01:10:00] He's the skinny guy.

[01:10:02] Gleason is the meat-hox.

[01:10:04] Yeah.

[01:10:06] And he's tall, which makes him so much bigger than the other two guys who are sort of shriveled.

[01:10:10] But he can, like you see the precision with which he uses his physicality even if it isn't as broad as what he'd done earlier in his career.

[01:10:16] But it never seems performative in the film. It always comes out of the character and just seems very like just a natural behavioral extension of who he is.

[01:10:25] He also has all these, and they never seem indulgent or unnecessary.

[01:10:29] He has all these very interesting little tics that he keeps doing.

[01:10:31] He'll just do things with his mouth or the way he'll move his face.

[01:10:34] Glasses off and kind of taps them.

[01:10:36] But it all just seems like behavior and it's great.

[01:10:39] Here's another thing about this movie.

[01:10:41] I feel like, and this is also why it probably doesn't work as well remaking it in 2017.

[01:10:46] It's to a certain generation of guys who just like do not want to talk about their feelings.

[01:10:50] Yeah, well I was thinking about this though because these guys are basically not the World War generation, right?

[01:10:57] They're in between.

[01:10:59] Now if anything when George Burns talks about the war he's talking about the first World War.

[01:11:03] So I looked it up. George Burns was rejected from the Army for World War I because...

[01:11:08] Too funny.

[01:11:10] Just too funny because he can't see a goddamn thing which is why he wears very thick glasses.

[01:11:13] Art Carney actually served in World War II but Art Carney is kind of plain older.

[01:11:17] Art Carney was in combat and injured his leg in World War II.

[01:11:20] He kind of had a lifelong limp because of that.

[01:11:23] And Lee Strasberg served in World War II.

[01:11:26] If you said to him like, you're in World War II...

[01:11:28] I'm joking about method acting.

[01:11:30] Imagine you're in World War II.

[01:11:32] I think Strasberg is probably right on the actual age these guys are supposed to be.

[01:11:37] And it's like yeah, these guys didn't actually serve in either war.

[01:11:40] They're weird in betweener kind of silent or what's even before the silent generation.

[01:11:45] This is my point. They don't feel like deeply repressed men.

[01:11:48] No, they just...

[01:11:50] It's what I think this movie sets up so well at the beginning because when George Burns pitches the plan to do the stick up...

[01:11:56] The lost generation.

[01:11:58] George Burns pitches the plan to do the stick up maybe 12 or 15 minutes into this movie.

[01:12:03] Yeah, because he saw money in a bank to be clear.

[01:12:06] That is pretty much what gives him the idea.

[01:12:07] You've just been watching them putter through the routine for the first 10 minutes.

[01:12:10] It's deeply captivating.

[01:12:12] This movie basically opens on extended opening credits over a three shot of them just sitting in the park in silence next to each other.

[01:12:18] Right, and then one of them rips on a kid in the park.

[01:12:20] Yes, George Burns.

[01:12:22] Yeah, he's mean and then they go home.

[01:12:24] But this sense of like...

[01:12:26] These guys might sometimes go full days without uttering a word to each other and yet they're best friends.

[01:12:31] They don't talk to anyone else.

[01:12:33] You know, they don't seem unhappy but there is a certain kind of...

[01:12:35] Wait a second.

[01:12:37] ...Malaise.

[01:12:39] I would say they seem a little unhappy.

[01:12:41] They don't seem happy.

[01:12:43] They don't seem happy.

[01:12:45] They don't even want to watch TV or something?

[01:12:47] That's the thing, I'm like guys turn on the bird tunes.

[01:12:49] Our Kearney's Al sings while he's doing the dishes.

[01:12:51] He's the happiest.

[01:12:53] His default is a little more glass half full.

[01:12:55] They're bordering on catatonic and there is this feeling of...

[01:12:58] And the movie captures it well.

[01:12:59] I mean like Brest sells this well visually of how much they're sort of just being ignored by their surroundings.

[01:13:06] Even the way he shoots them, right?

[01:13:08] It's like they're in the middle of a park where in the foreground of the shot you have kids like running through sprinklers and all this activity.

[01:13:15] And then all the way in the background of the shot are just three old guys just silently muttering to themselves.

[01:13:19] By the way there's also another thing that Martin Brest does really well which is...

[01:13:23] And this also feels like it's the tail end of the 70s.

[01:13:25] It also feels like very 70s filmmaking vocabulary.

[01:13:28] But there's a real sense of environmental reality.

[01:13:31] And a lot of the shots of Queens and New York City, it kind of feels like Dog Day Afternoon.

[01:13:39] Yes.

[01:13:41] Or movies from that era where there's a real sense of reality of the neighborhood and the environment.

[01:13:47] In actual New York City in the 1970s gets so much power from that.

[01:13:50] Yes.

[01:13:52] It's a story I believe is where they live and like you know they're just shooting there.

[01:13:56] They shot the rest of the movie at Coffin Studios up there.

[01:13:59] And of course they actually go to JFK.

[01:14:01] They go to the beautiful old TWA terminal.

[01:14:04] And there's a great sequence in Vegas.

[01:14:07] But that's it.

[01:14:09] The most excitement these guys have...

[01:14:11] Oh I like that when they go to Manhattan George Burns is like,

[01:14:14] All these people walking.

[01:14:16] How come everyone's outside?

[01:14:18] He can't even stand that people live in New York City essentially.

[01:14:21] The one thing New York is famous for having a lot of people in it.

[01:14:25] Even that annoys him.

[01:14:27] Everything annoys him.

[01:14:29] Using the internet without ExpressVPN.

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[01:14:45] My nightmare.

[01:14:47] This is truly terrifying.

[01:14:48] To be clear I absolutely know what to do because I always pay attention to the safety briefing.

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[01:16:38] So they have this Vegas run.

[01:16:41] What can I say about when they go to get a meal in Vegas to kind of subvert what you normally see in these kinds of movies?

[01:16:48] They order, both of them order cream cheese and jelly sandwiches.

[01:16:53] Yeah.

[01:16:55] Like they, and you know, he opens, Art Carney opens the menu and I'm like, he's going to order lobster, right?

[01:17:00] They just want a bunch of money.

[01:17:02] He just gets the same thing that George Burns gets.

[01:17:05] George Burns just orders cream cheese and jelly sandwich.

[01:17:07] And then Art Carney just looks at this giant menu and says, I'll have the same.

[01:17:10] Yeah. But he can't even begin to.

[01:17:12] He doesn't even know where to begin with this lifestyle.

[01:17:15] And then of course a plus would be then the waitress being like, all right, it's five cents extra for jelly.

[01:17:19] And George Burns is like, forget it.

[01:17:21] No, but I think it's right. Their tastes have not changed.

[01:17:25] Like their brains have not really expanded.

[01:17:27] And again, right?

[01:17:29] It's not like they're like, we need to high roll now.

[01:17:31] It's more like they go to Vegas because they feel like they have to do something.

[01:17:34] Yeah.

[01:17:35] And the scene where Art Carney is looking at the pretty lady.

[01:17:38] Yes.

[01:17:40] At the slot machine.

[01:17:42] A sex worker, let's be specific.

[01:17:44] Or as he would call her at the time, a hooker.

[01:17:46] A woman of the night.

[01:17:48] Yes. Like again, it just kind of feels like that's like, you know, like that's beyond anything they've like considered in years.

[01:17:55] It's actually a very sweet moment because he decides to play a slot machine.

[01:17:59] He notices this pretty lady looking at him and he starts to flirt with her in a very sort of sweet way.

[01:18:05] He did that.

[01:18:07] But he doesn't realize that she's working.

[01:18:09] Sure. And also Burns.

[01:18:11] And then George Burns comes up behind him and gives her a little shake of the head like, no, we don't need your business now.

[01:18:16] Yeah.

[01:18:17] But Art Carney has no idea that that was a part of it.

[01:18:20] But then Carney dies anyway. You couldn't.

[01:18:22] Geez.

[01:18:24] Because for like the first time in a long time, this guy believes like I could be noticed.

[01:18:27] I feel like I exist again.

[01:18:29] He's using a muscle he's not used in 20, 30 years.

[01:18:32] And just his sort of he's just experiencing joy again.

[01:18:36] They both are. Yeah.

[01:18:38] And they're both and they're both in a quiet way.

[01:18:41] They're both exhilarated.

[01:18:43] Just by being out having a good time together.

[01:18:45] They go back to their apartment.

[01:18:47] They're sort of like, wow, what a wild run.

[01:18:49] They're just having a conversation while our Carney lies in a bed and George Burns sits in a chair.

[01:18:53] They both fall asleep.

[01:18:55] Just mid conversation.

[01:18:57] George Burns wakes up and realizes that our Carney has died.

[01:18:59] Yes. And attributes it to he had too much fun.

[01:19:02] Too much excitement.

[01:19:04] Well, they just they didn't even stay in the hotel.

[01:19:07] No, they just leave.

[01:19:09] And the logic is it clear?

[01:19:12] Well, Burns Burns. Yeah.

[01:19:14] Because they end up winning a great deal of money at the casino.

[01:19:16] And Burns starts to freak out thinking they're making too much of a if they if they've won that much money, they're going to the authorities are going to notice them.

[01:19:26] And he's worried about getting caught for the robbery.

[01:19:28] So he doesn't want to pay.

[01:19:29] And he's like, they have they have detectives who work here and look for thieves.

[01:19:34] And yeah, there's even though they won the money in Vegas, honestly.

[01:19:37] He's afraid of talking to me.

[01:19:40] He's like, I just want to get out of here with this money and get back to Queens right away.

[01:19:44] In cash, not like don't get the check.

[01:19:46] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:19:48] And they deal with the cashier, which again is a perfectly cast person who really seems like a nice cashier lady.

[01:19:53] It doesn't seem like an actor dealing with these old men.

[01:19:56] Yes. Who there's no schtick involved.

[01:19:57] It's great.

[01:19:59] Between, I think, the robbery in the Vegas sequence, I forget where it lands exactly.

[01:20:03] But there's the scene we alluded to briefly of George Burns looking through sort of like the memory box.

[01:20:10] Yeah, we talked about it.

[01:20:12] But then he pisses himself while crying and stands up and goes to the bathroom.

[01:20:17] And he's like full circle. I'm a baby again.

[01:20:19] Yeah. Like a scene that could be played so broad and silly and even describing it right now.

[01:20:23] You're like, how could that be pulled off in a way that is emotionally resonant?

[01:20:27] And he stands up and just goes to the bathroom.

[01:20:30] I'm just crying and pissing myself.

[01:20:32] He says, I guess the goddamn cycle is complete.

[01:20:34] Yeah. He should have gotten an Oscar nomination.

[01:20:36] And it is funny, but it's equally sad and touching.

[01:20:41] I would have given all three of these guys Oscar nominations.

[01:20:43] Well, it's tough to give.

[01:20:45] Yeah.

[01:20:47] Let's see. It's a good year.

[01:20:49] Dustin Hoffman, Kramer vs. Kramer is the best actor.

[01:20:53] Roy Scheider, All That Jazz.

[01:20:55] Peter Sellers being there, which is obviously Al Pacino in Injustice for All, which is not a movie I love very much, but it's Al Pacino.

[01:21:03] But I'm going to bump that one.

[01:21:05] Uncorking.

[01:21:07] That's a bump for me.

[01:21:09] And Jack Lemmon for The China Syndrome, which he's awesome in.

[01:21:11] I guess that's sort of the softest nom there.

[01:21:13] And it's fucking Jack Lemmon.

[01:21:15] Heavy hitters in that one.

[01:21:16] And then supporting actor is Duvall in Apocalypse Now, which insanely does not win.

[01:21:22] Melvin Douglas wins for being there, who's good.

[01:21:24] All right. That's also thank you, Melvin Douglas, for your years of service.

[01:21:28] Mickey Rooney in The Black Stallion.

[01:21:30] That's a weird, famously weird.

[01:21:33] I took the hat to the mixer, but maybe that's a bump for Lee Strasberg.

[01:21:37] They're like, Mickey, thank you for not playing Asian in this one.

[01:21:40] That's all. At least you're playing an Irish guy.

[01:21:42] Frederick Forrest in The Rose, which is a really cool nomination, actually.

[01:21:46] And then the kid in Kramer vs. Kramer, Justin Henry.

[01:21:50] Which you probably want to buy. He's good.

[01:21:52] He's great in the ice cream scene.

[01:21:55] But, you know, yeah, maybe you get one of the old guys in there, but I guess it's kind of like, well, we've already given these guys trophies.

[01:22:03] They had their laurels.

[01:22:05] But I agree with you. No one's phoning it in.

[01:22:08] They're all really committing to these performances.

[01:22:10] The performances have dimension and nuance.

[01:22:13] They understand the assignment.

[01:22:15] And as you said, Strasberg gave me a D.

[01:22:19] This movie?

[01:22:21] Strasberg was not very well liked in the theater community.

[01:22:25] I mean, I think he was a prickly fella.

[01:22:27] He was considered a bit of a major asshole.

[01:22:30] He doesn't seem like the easiest guy.

[01:22:33] I once met Cloris Leachman, and she had been in the Cloris Leachman.

[01:22:37] No, I said, ooh.

[01:22:38] Oh, I love Cloris Leachman.

[01:22:40] I was astonished that you said ooh.

[01:22:42] And I asked her about the actor's studio, and she said, oh, Lee Strasberg was a real cocksucker.

[01:22:49] That sounds like something she would say, too.

[01:22:51] And it was kind of great seeing...

[01:22:53] Now, that was schticky old person talking dirty comedy, but it was real life.

[01:22:57] But Cloris Leachman, I mean, I would have paid for just 200 minutes of her on a Broadway stage doing schticky old person saying cocksucker.

[01:23:05] Like, that sounds great.

[01:23:06] By the way, she was wearing an outfit that looked like she'd bought it at Forever 21.

[01:23:11] It was like some sort of fashionable workout outfit.

[01:23:14] She has finally departed this moral cult.

[01:23:17] And this was about 15, 20 years ago.

[01:23:19] She was 94 years old.

[01:23:21] She only died a year or two ago?

[01:23:23] Yeah, two years ago.

[01:23:25] I remember when she did Malcolm in the Middle, right?

[01:23:27] And it's like, oh yeah, of course, Cloris Leachman's kind of playing a grandma now.

[01:23:29] And then she did Raising Hope, which was like 15 years later, and you're like, she's still just playing grandmas.

[01:23:33] Like, she's got like three cycles of grandma in her.

[01:23:36] She was asked to reprise her role in Young Frankenstein for the Broadway musical.

[01:23:40] That would have been amazing.

[01:23:42] And Mel Brooks said he wouldn't do it because he was worried about the insurance policy of her having to dance every night.

[01:23:46] I mean, she must have been in her 80s.

[01:23:48] She lived another 10 years.

[01:23:50] And she, to spite him, I believe, went on Dancing with the Stars the following cycle to be like, I'm not falling down, Mel.

[01:23:57] She's a regular George Burns.

[01:23:59] Yeah.

[01:24:01] Okay. Just to finish the plot.

[01:24:03] Suddenly it's like George Burns is all alone.

[01:24:04] Right. He gives all of the money to Pete at this point.

[01:24:08] And Pete, by the way, is living.

[01:24:10] He confesses to Pete that it was actually a robbery, not an insurance policy.

[01:24:14] But he's like, don't tell me.

[01:24:16] And they're like, we want to give you this money.

[01:24:18] So you can open your own gas station. That's the idea too.

[01:24:20] Right. And he's heard on the news broadcasts that they think there might be leads on.

[01:24:23] There have been some radio broadcasts and the last one says the FBI is on the case.

[01:24:27] So George knows that the heat is closing in.

[01:24:29] Could you imagine this becoming like an exciting news story for the New York Post to be like, three old guys robbed a bank?

[01:24:35] It's almost like they're going insane.

[01:24:37] It's such tabloid fodder.

[01:24:39] The media would have a field day with this.

[01:24:41] And everybody would be on the side of these old guys too.

[01:24:43] Yeah. And Burns is like, I don't know what it is, but something must have been sloppy.

[01:24:47] And we never do learn what it is.

[01:24:49] No.

[01:24:50] He just gets pinched.

[01:24:52] He gets pinched.

[01:24:54] There's a great scene where he's going to go to Al's funeral and he puts on a suit.

[01:24:55] He's by himself.

[01:24:57] And again, the only reason they put on a suit is to go to a funeral or to do a bank robbery.

[01:25:01] And then there's a very interesting moment where he shuts off the lights.

[01:25:06] He's going to go to the funeral and right before he leaves the apartment, he looks at the apartment and then he exits.

[01:25:13] And it's like he's having a premonition.

[01:25:15] Like I'm saying goodbye to this place.

[01:25:17] Like he knows he's going to get pinched.

[01:25:19] But it's not played in a super obvious way.

[01:25:21] It's very subtle.

[01:25:23] And then he goes outside and is immediately arrested.

[01:25:25] Just imagine if not pinched, he's like, I might have a heart attack before I make it back here.

[01:25:29] Yeah.

[01:25:30] My friends are dropping off.

[01:25:31] But he looks at his home.

[01:25:32] Yes.

[01:25:33] In a way that's like, this might be the last look I have of this.

[01:25:36] There are two very likely scenarios in which he never returns to that apartment.

[01:25:40] Either he gets thrown in jail or he dies.

[01:25:42] Exactly.

[01:25:44] And either one could be happening at any moment.

[01:25:46] Well, he gets pinched.

[01:25:48] Gives this final great like fucking speech.

[01:25:50] And FBI, the kind of smarmy FBI guy comes in and says, look, you know, tell us where the money is and we'll go easy on you.

[01:25:57] Yeah.

[01:25:58] And he's like, go to hell.

[01:26:01] He's essentially like, I'd rather die in prison.

[01:26:03] Put me away.

[01:26:05] But I'm not going to tell you where the money is.

[01:26:07] You can't scare me.

[01:26:09] Like what can you throw at me that is worse than my oncoming death that I cannot avoid?

[01:26:13] Yes.

[01:26:15] And like, as we all know, of course, he's going to live another 20 years because that's what George Burns went ahead and did.

[01:26:20] He's probably going to be running that prison.

[01:26:23] He's got four more major movies left in it.

[01:26:26] He's going to start the theater company at the prison.

[01:26:29] Right.

[01:26:30] But Pete comes to the last scene as Pete goes to the prison to visit him.

[01:26:33] And he says, he says they treat me like a king around here, which I'm sure they're all like this is the baddest motherfucker in the joint.

[01:26:40] Fucking rules.

[01:26:42] And he's like, the food's OK.

[01:26:44] And I have my own toilet.

[01:26:46] That's one of the perks.

[01:26:47] But that's part of his argument at the beginning when he's pitching it to the guys is like, worst case scenario, they put us in jail.

[01:26:53] That's our rent paid for.

[01:26:55] They have to feed us all day.

[01:26:57] All our social security checks accumulate.

[01:26:59] We'll come out with thousands of dollars.

[01:27:01] It was all worth it.

[01:27:03] It was all worth it.

[01:27:05] I mean, the only sacrifice he had to make was his own life, I guess.

[01:27:08] But right. What was his life anyway?

[01:27:10] Yeah.

[01:27:11] You know, but it's still a sad ending or an incredibly melancholy ending.

[01:27:14] Like, whereas I believe, again, the Zach Braff remake ends with everyone going to see Garden State and a big multiplex or whatever happens in that movie.

[01:27:22] Morgan Freeman plays the shins for Michael Caine.

[01:27:26] It'll change your life.

[01:27:28] But that movie just feels like it's kind of generically doing like Ocean's 81 or whatever.

[01:27:33] Right. Like it's not this.

[01:27:36] It's just what if old guys did a crime?

[01:27:38] Absolutely. This on paper, this sounds generic as hell.

[01:27:40] Yeah.

[01:27:42] But maybe that's because we've had the last 40 years of that approach to this kind of story.

[01:27:46] Same with Beverly Hills Cop, though.

[01:27:48] Same with Midnight Run where you're like, we've been living in an era of seeing like the shittier versions of the things that Martin Bress perfected.

[01:27:55] I mean, Going in Style is basically a movie coming off of a trend of like Last Vegas and stand up guys.

[01:28:03] There was like that whole run of like, oh, you put four old legendary Oscar winning leading men in a movie where they're playing like misbehaving dudes.

[01:28:14] What's the Tim Allen one?

[01:28:16] Wild Hogs.

[01:28:18] Right. That's the middle age version of that basically.

[01:28:20] I think I think that's interesting about this too.

[01:28:23] You're talking about like out of the gate how this seems like someone who's made many more films because of the power of its restraint,

[01:28:29] which seems like something you only learn after you make a lot of movies.

[01:28:33] Is that it sort of has all the elements of all the films, but in a more restrained way.

[01:28:41] So it has it kind of has it has the criminal comedy element of Beverly Hills Cop and Midnight Run.

[01:28:48] Meechel Black is explicitly about death, which he always said was his major obsession.

[01:28:52] But also Scent of a Woman and Meechel Black.

[01:28:56] Are kind of he leans on sentiment in those.

[01:29:00] I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing, but the sentiment is leaned on a bit more.

[01:29:04] In fact, the sentiment and the sort of grandness of the stories drives those movies in the way that the plot mechanics drives Beverly Hills Cop and Midnight Run.

[01:29:12] It's what I don't understand about what happened to him and plot at all there.

[01:29:17] But it's much more low key.

[01:29:19] And again, that's the power of it.

[01:29:21] I don't understand.

[01:29:23] And maybe I'm going to watch Meechel Black and be like, this is an underrated gem.

[01:29:27] But I don't think so because it's not a very popular movie.

[01:29:29] And what I've seen of it, I did not respond to.

[01:29:32] I don't really understand how this guy kind of lost a little bit and got lost in the weeds of like both movie stardom.

[01:29:39] And these like very all of these later movies are very long and like not economical as this film is like, you know, like I really like the economy of this movie.

[01:29:48] Yes, it's very blank checky.

[01:29:51] Because he gets to do these overlong somewhat grandiose films near the end.

[01:29:57] And I agree. I don't think they're as good as the early funny ones.

[01:30:01] Well, one of those. But also like he becomes a runaway shoot guy.

[01:30:05] He becomes like James L. Brooks is very similar to this where it's like, oh, now it becomes you got to give the master his time and space because he just knows it when he sees it.

[01:30:13] And he has to keep doing scenes over and over again and rewriting and reediting.

[01:30:18] No one's going Kubrick's going over budget. So you've got to finish this thing up.

[01:30:24] Right. He's got and there is the irony is there is freedom in the grid.

[01:30:28] There is freedom in the limitations. And that's very powerful.

[01:30:33] You see that in this definitely.

[01:30:35] This film was a hit. I want you guys to understand that it came out of Christmas.

[01:30:39] George Burns still Mr. Hollywood.

[01:30:41] It was like an A cup.

[01:30:44] If it wasn't a big breasted hit on the level of Beverly Hills, creating a scale of comparison.

[01:30:51] Shepherds crook that you can yank him with.

[01:30:54] Now, can I just do a sidebar here, please?

[01:30:57] So my son Severin Urbaniak, who was mentioned on the prior podcast that we did on Buster Keaton.

[01:31:04] Who I who is here in the studio with us today, who I used to babysit when I would fly out to L.A. for auditions and such.

[01:31:11] And stay on your couch.

[01:31:13] Yeah. You were very young.

[01:31:15] I'd stay on your couch for free. And in exchange, I would give you and your then wife date nights where I watch.

[01:31:21] Griff was in L.A. sometimes when you were very young. He came over and watched.

[01:31:24] But then you guys met in L.A. a couple of months ago after the play.

[01:31:28] But I said I was going to just hang out in the studio today.

[01:31:30] But I wanted him to see the film so he wouldn't be completely at sea as we talked about this for two hours.

[01:31:35] But he is a young man who's about to turn 18. And what were your thoughts on this film?

[01:31:40] Well, thank you, James, slash my dad.

[01:31:46] I liked it a lot.

[01:31:48] You liked it a lot. So here's here's a young person who's still responding to the.

[01:31:52] Yes, I am. This 40 year old movie about old guys.

[01:31:55] And if you like the movie, here's a picture.

[01:31:56] There's a movie in which George Burns plays an 18 year old or 17.

[01:32:01] I've never seen that film.

[01:32:03] That film's 18 again, 18 again, where it's just different than 17.

[01:32:07] George Burns. It's in the bodies. I don't know if it's a body swap, but George Burns suddenly becomes young in the early 80s.

[01:32:14] And and a young actor who I believe is named Charlie Schlagher, who years later, I we had the same voiceover agent and I met Charlie Schlagher in L.A.

[01:32:23] But I've never seen that film. But so a young man gets to chomp cigars and go, wow, that was radical, dude.

[01:32:31] Most of the movie, I guess he's not.

[01:32:33] I know Harry Truman.

[01:32:35] He's not on screen and it's Charlie Schlagher doing a George Burns.

[01:32:39] And I'm guessing his friends are like, hey, do you want to go to the movies?

[01:32:42] And he's like, sure. Is the new Ingrid Bergman picture, right?

[01:32:46] Stuff like that. I don't know if I can go to the Nickelodeon.

[01:32:49] My wrist is literally about to make an.

[01:32:51] I can say another thing, please.

[01:32:54] Yes. Like I do agree that it was like very reserved shirt.

[01:32:59] Like when the guys die, it's kind of sudden.

[01:33:03] Like when it happens, it's like it's a couple scenes, but it doesn't really feel like.

[01:33:09] And it's surprising, but it's not really shocking.

[01:33:12] Yeah. And I think that's part of the theme of the thing.

[01:33:15] That's that because death is such a normal part of these guys lives.

[01:33:17] Yeah. It's still sad and painful, but that is kind of the point.

[01:33:21] It's not shocking. In fact, it's so not shocking.

[01:33:23] It's like we said, it's mundane.

[01:33:25] Martin Brest in an interview last year and they were asking him about what made him write this movie when he was in his 20s.

[01:33:31] And he said, even in my 20s, when I did Going in Style, it seemed to me the biggest possible issue mortality.

[01:33:37] What could be a bigger idea than that?

[01:33:39] I think that's a good point, Seb, because also the deaths are not major plot turns at all.

[01:33:45] It's just what happened.

[01:33:47] It's just what happens.

[01:33:49] And by the way, can I just, we touched on it briefly, but another sequence that also feels like he's just shooting and letting stuff happen is this great sequence where they're going to do the thing.

[01:34:00] It's before the robbery, but they're only good mood because they're going to do this thing.

[01:34:03] So they have something to do and they're walking.

[01:34:05] They've got to scope out the bank.

[01:34:07] They scope out the bank the day before they do it.

[01:34:09] The dance sequence?

[01:34:10] They go to a bank in Manhattan and Burns is like, this will work.

[01:34:14] All right, we've done.

[01:34:16] We'll do it.

[01:34:17] Can you get the guns tonight?

[01:34:18] Great.

[01:34:19] We'll do it tomorrow.

[01:34:20] He has some line like, why don't we have, it's a bank's a bank.

[01:34:22] And then they're walking in like Midtown and there's some guys, there's like a steel drum combo.

[01:34:25] And Lee Strasberg starts bopping his head and then Carney kind of looks at him.

[01:34:29] And then almost like, there's the thing where also Carney now and then goofs on Lee Strasberg a little bit.

[01:34:33] And he starts goofing on him.

[01:34:34] But then Carney does this sort of eccentric art Carney dance and the crowd is into it.

[01:34:40] And it's incredibly charming.

[01:34:42] And it's just a, and it goes on for a little while.

[01:34:46] And it's just about this guy with joy in his life again for, you know, for a minute.

[01:34:54] And Carney's really funny.

[01:34:56] But again, he's not being sticky with it.

[01:34:58] He's it just seems like the way this guy would happily dance.

[01:35:01] And it's, and you go along with it.

[01:35:04] It's a very joyous, real moment and people are enjoying it.

[01:35:09] But again, it doesn't feel staged.

[01:35:11] It feels like it's actually happening.

[01:35:13] It has a documentary quality to it.

[01:35:15] And that's the strength of so many of the sequences in the film.

[01:35:19] There's another moment like that where when Burns is going to each teller during the bank robbery, he keeps like complimenting them.

[01:35:28] Yeah. And he's kind of making little jokes, but it's like the anecdote that Burns told.

[01:35:33] They're not George Burns style wisecracks.

[01:35:36] They're just things that George, there's a moment in the casino where Burns says something like, why did you give me more money?

[01:35:44] I'm being funny. Like he actually says that.

[01:35:47] But yeah, at one point he says to like the teller, thank the jokiest joke is a teller fills the bag.

[01:35:54] He goes, you're doing a good job. Ask your boss to give you a raise.

[01:35:57] But again, it feels like Joe just in a good mood.

[01:36:00] It doesn't feel like a famous comedian doing shtick in a movie.

[01:36:03] I was struggling to find anything that backed this up, but I was curious if like did this movie, did these guys even get like Golden Globe acting nominations or whatever?

[01:36:13] This film played at the Venice Film Festival in 1980, the year after it was released.

[01:36:17] Yes. They won a joint award.

[01:36:19] Yes. The Pasanetti award, which it seems like there was a 10 year run where the Venice Festival didn't give out acting awards, but there was a sort of Pasanetti award that was for some other extra like accomplishment related to a film.

[01:36:33] Who's Pasanetti?

[01:36:35] An Italian film figure?

[01:36:37] P.M. Pasanetti.

[01:36:39] Pasolini's cousin?

[01:36:40] Yeah. He was like one of the first Italian film critics. I think he's like an early person. His award still exists. I don't know the arcane details.

[01:36:52] The three of them split a best actor award, but not when there was a designated best actor trophy. It was sort of like the Pasanetti this year goes to these three guys for acting, which I thought was cool.

[01:37:02] Anyway, this movie was a hit?

[01:37:04] This movie was a hit. It was a soft, slow word of mouth success.

[01:37:09] It's very word of mouth-y.

[01:37:11] It made $30 million having cost five. So it was obviously like a very worthwhile little thing. It is kind of funny. It got good reviews. Siskel liked it. Canby's often lukewarm in the New York Times. He was a bit of a grump.

[01:37:28] I will say Siskel, who you and I agree was never the finest writer. His going in style review is really good. It's kind of one of the more beautiful pieces of wording I've ever seen out of him.

[01:37:39] Yeah, I think Siskel gets the not as good a writer rap because Ebert was a better writer than him. But like I've read Siskel reviews where I'm like, you know, this guy had the juice.

[01:37:47] Let's play the box office game. Also, of course, it was famously remade by Zach Braff inexplicably starring a bunch of guys.

[01:37:54] The film came out at Christmas 1979, Griffin. It's opening at number 10. So it's not in the top five.

[01:38:02] Christmas 79. Very exciting. I am a sophomore in high school.

[01:38:09] Okay, so you probably would have been interested in what I'm going to say in some of these movies.

[01:38:12] Yeah, I don't know that I was... This is funny because I was on another podcast recently where I was trying to remember like when Star Wars came out what movies I saw in 77. And there were very few. So I wasn't going to the movies a lot in high school. But this is interesting. We'll see how I do.

[01:38:29] So the number one film at the box office is, I am not sure how you feel about this franchise, but I feel like you might like it a little bit. It's a science fiction film.

[01:38:40] Is it Star Trek the Motion Picture?

[01:38:43] Oh, okay. Yeah, I saw it when it came out with my friend Dan who I often went... If I went to the movies, I went with my friend Dan. And Dan was kind of a sci-fi nerd. He later wrote for Starlog magazine.

[01:38:55] Oh, that's cool. We've quoted from Starlog many times.

[01:38:58] I saw Capricorn One with Dan.

[01:39:00] Not a bad movie. So you're not a huge Star Trek guy. But you saw it. It was a big movie of the year.

[01:39:04] I didn't really watch Star Trek. I wasn't that into it. But I went to the movie because it was a big deal. I remember what a big deal it was at the time.

[01:39:15] It was the big, obviously, it's somewhat disappointed, but people I think confused that with it was still a massive hit. It just cost a lot of money to make. So that's number one. It's been number one for a month.

[01:39:27] Number two is the film that will win Best Picture of 1979. Another gigantic hit, but it's just beginning its run.

[01:39:33] The Deer Hunter.

[01:39:35] No, I think the year before.

[01:39:37] It's not Cranberry versus Cranberry.

[01:39:39] Which was the highest grossing film of its year, right?

[01:39:41] I mean, it's one of those things though where it's just beginning its run. It's obviously a huge grosser. Now number three is a comedy griffin. One of your guys, one of his early hits.

[01:39:51] It's not The Jerk?

[01:39:53] It is The Jerk!

[01:39:54] I saw that in the theater.

[01:39:56] Probably with Dan again, my movie buddy.

[01:39:59] That must have been incredible to see first run.

[01:40:03] I can remember moments, I can remember the laughter in the theater at moments.

[01:40:09] But I even smelt like pizza in a cup and Murray getting a big laugh in the theater.

[01:40:12] Everything in that movie is pretty funny.

[01:40:14] I watched that again a few weeks ago and it really holds up.

[01:40:18] I think it is still kind of for comedy.

[01:40:20] Directed by Carl Reiner who really knows how to direct comedy.

[01:40:22] One of the funniest movies ever made by him.

[01:40:24] I think a lot of Steve Martin stuff holds up better than almost any other comedy of that era.

[01:40:29] His whole body of work I think makes more sense than a lot of guys who you point at and go like, you kind of had to be there.

[01:40:36] There was a thing going on in the culture.

[01:40:38] And it's all the more fascinating because he's gone through so many cultural shifts of what his persona is.

[01:40:44] I'm very excited to watch that documentary.

[01:40:46] Will have been out by many months by the time this comes out.

[01:40:49] The sequence when he is leaving at the end.

[01:40:52] The funniest shit in the world.

[01:40:54] And he keeps grabbing things.

[01:40:56] Classic sequence.

[01:40:58] One of the most famous comedy sequences ever I would argue.

[01:41:00] I think about it kind of all the time.

[01:41:02] I think it's just one of the best pieces of comedy acting.

[01:41:06] Yeah, I think that movie has 15 of those.

[01:41:09] I think that's probably the best one but there are 15 things in that movie I could point to where I'd be like, that's like an instructional for the funniest a thing could be.

[01:41:18] And the late Emmett Walsh doing a brilliant turn.

[01:41:23] Recently late.

[01:41:25] Hates these cans.

[01:41:27] And then the equally funny payoff when he shows up and sort of sheepishly apologizes for trying to kill him.

[01:41:31] Yeah, I just got divorced and also I quit smoking.

[01:41:34] That's the reason.

[01:41:36] And that being the build up of the phone book.

[01:41:38] That movie is so well constructed.

[01:41:39] I remember it's a classic line, but I remember I can remember being in the theater and he hates these cans getting a huge laugh.

[01:41:47] Yeah, I wish I could have been.

[01:41:50] Hates these cans is just very funny.

[01:41:53] Yeah, number four at the box office.

[01:41:55] It is a family sci-fi film.

[01:41:58] Family sci-fi film in 1979.

[01:42:01] So this is a sci-fi film that's rated G.

[01:42:04] Is that what you're saying?

[01:42:05] It's rated PG.

[01:42:07] Actually, it was notoriously the first film from the studio to get a PG rating.

[01:42:11] Oh, it's a Disney film?

[01:42:13] Is it The Black Hole?

[01:42:15] The Black Hole.

[01:42:17] Didn't I guess that already?

[01:42:19] Has that just been in my mind?

[01:42:21] Perhaps.

[01:42:23] Probably just in your mind.

[01:42:25] It feels like again, like a James movie.

[01:42:27] But earlier you said science fiction.

[01:42:29] Possibly came up then.

[01:42:31] And then I thought I was thinking of so it was in my head.

[01:42:33] But you guys said it first.

[01:42:35] Like this is 79 Hollywood clearly responding to 77 Star Wars and Close Encounters blowing up so big.

[01:42:42] And then they return with like Star Trek and Black Hole, both of which are so slow that are borderline art films.

[01:42:49] I mean, I'm just like watching the black hole through space as slowly as possible.

[01:42:54] This may presents Andre Tarkovsky.

[01:42:56] Black Hole is closer to Solaris than you would imagine.

[01:43:00] I would say exactly that.

[01:43:01] Black Hole makes Star Trek the motion picture look like, you know, Death Race 2000.

[01:43:05] I did not see The Black Hole.

[01:43:08] I like The Black Hole, but it's one of the most ponderous studio films ever.

[01:43:11] It's very ponderous. It's like Maximilian Schell and Anthony Perkins.

[01:43:14] It's all these kind of like...

[01:43:16] And Borgnine jerking off in the corner of the ship.

[01:43:18] And the robots, of course.

[01:43:20] That's how we had to stay young.

[01:43:22] It's a movie that every time I've watched it, which is like two and a half times, I've been like, I'm really going to like it this time.

[01:43:28] And I'm always like, I watch it when I have insomnia and it really does the trick.

[01:43:33] Oh, it's really good for that.

[01:43:35] Number five at the box office is a film with movie stars that was a hit, but I think is pretty...

[01:43:39] And a big director, but is pretty forgotten. It got kind of mixed reviews.

[01:43:43] Was it a disaster film?

[01:43:45] No, it's like a sort of comedy drama.

[01:43:48] Can I ask like the age of these movie stars? How established are they at this point?

[01:43:52] Very established at this point. I would say...

[01:43:55] Middle-aged type people?

[01:43:56] Well, let's say like, you know, late 30s, early 40s.

[01:44:01] Is it a Neil Simon?

[01:44:03] No.

[01:44:05] Good guess though.

[01:44:07] Right. It's not like a Four Seasons type thing.

[01:44:09] Did you say the genre?

[01:44:11] It's like a comedy drama, but it doesn't have a Western tinge to it.

[01:44:13] It has a Western tinge.

[01:44:15] It's a Western tinge.

[01:44:17] 1979.

[01:44:19] 1979, Western tinge.

[01:44:21] The film was successful. It made $60 million on a $10 million budget.

[01:44:23] Huh.

[01:44:25] The film's kind of well known for a musician making his acting debut in it.

[01:44:28] Is it Hector and Billy the Kid?

[01:44:30] No. Solid guess though.

[01:44:32] I think it was a little earlier.

[01:44:34] Is Mr. Willie Nelson?

[01:44:36] That is correct. Willie Nelson is making his acting debut.

[01:44:40] Willie Nelson plays a man in prison.

[01:44:42] That's Thief.

[01:44:44] Okay, I was thinking of Thief.

[01:44:46] But that is not this film.

[01:44:48] It's called Ramblin' Bros, isn't it?

[01:44:50] No, that's a really good movie.

[01:44:51] So, Willie Nelson's acting debut, Western.

[01:44:54] Is Willie Nelson a supporting role or one of the principal characters?

[01:44:57] He looks like he's the fourth lead here.

[01:44:59] And it's kind of forgotten you said?

[01:45:01] This movie I think is forgotten now, yes.

[01:45:04] But again, it was a reasonably sized hit.

[01:45:06] But given the two major stars and the major director, I think it was seen as underwhelming.

[01:45:12] Huh.

[01:45:14] You might not know this movie. I don't know. You probably know the title.

[01:45:18] What is it?

[01:45:19] It's directed by Sidney Pollack, if that helps.

[01:45:22] It stars Robert Redford and Jane Fonda.

[01:45:25] The Electric Horseman.

[01:45:27] The film is called The Electric Horseman.

[01:45:29] I do know that title.

[01:45:31] It's like he's an old rodeo guy.

[01:45:33] Never seen it. Once you said that, it was either that or Rhinestone Cowboy.

[01:45:38] As a very young person, it hasn't endured into my time.

[01:45:42] It's not big on TikTok?

[01:45:44] Yet.

[01:45:45] You don't even know who Tom Green is.

[01:45:48] That's how young you are.

[01:45:50] We were talking about Tom Green before, Mike, who now feels like George Burns.

[01:45:53] Or something else though.

[01:45:55] Like some old vaudevillian where by the 50s he'd been forgotten.

[01:45:59] But Seth, you've got to admit that The Electric Horseman is a pretty cool title.

[01:46:02] It's a good title.

[01:46:04] The other movies in the top ten. 1941, Fistfield Break, Mega Flop.

[01:46:08] Ah, yes.

[01:46:10] It's a bounce.

[01:46:12] His first World War II film.

[01:46:13] Yes. Apocalypse Now. Big hit of 1979.

[01:46:18] A movie called Roller Boogie starring Linda Blair. Cool.

[01:46:22] Which I don't really know.

[01:46:25] The Rose, which is the Bette Midler movie. She gets an Oscar nom for it.

[01:46:29] And Going In Style.

[01:46:31] By the way, the score, kind of a pastiche of a 1930s jazz score.

[01:46:37] But real good.

[01:46:39] Going In Style that works.

[01:46:41] Michael Small.

[01:46:43] It's got a little banjo in it.

[01:46:45] Very Waka Waka, you know.

[01:46:47] I need to go take my little cousin to see Godzilla X Kong.

[01:46:51] What's it called again? The New Empire?

[01:46:54] Either A or The New Empire.

[01:46:56] But James, thank you so much for being here.

[01:46:58] Thank you. I need to take my son back to New Jersey to see my family.

[01:47:02] Who are the Godzilla X Kong of New Jersey?

[01:47:05] Your family?

[01:47:07] An old empire.

[01:47:09] My dad is the Godzilla of the family. Towering figure.

[01:47:10] We're all in awe.

[01:47:12] We all have the same plans tonight.

[01:47:14] Who's the Kong?

[01:47:16] That's what you need to resolve tonight.

[01:47:18] Maybe it's James.

[01:47:20] James, is there anything you want to plug?

[01:47:22] I'm in an Apple Plus series called Palm Royale starring Kristen Wiig.

[01:47:28] Which I hear is so funny.

[01:47:30] I've heard only incredible things.

[01:47:32] Kristen Wiig plays a lady trying to socially climb 1960s Palm Beach.

[01:47:36] Carol Burnett.

[01:47:37] Carol Burnett is who I met at a table read.

[01:47:42] She's sort of a George Burns. Where's she still going?

[01:47:45] I was honored to meet her and I told her, which is true,

[01:47:51] if my late mother had only known that I would be working with Carol Burnett someday,

[01:47:55] she would get quite a kick out of that.

[01:47:57] That's pretty well.

[01:47:59] I'm sure Carol Burnett, God bless her, gets a lot of people coming up to her being like,

[01:48:02] it is a true honor to meet you.

[01:48:03] I'm sure she handles it with a plop.

[01:48:06] She handled it very nicely to me.

[01:48:08] And then there's a handful of independent films.

[01:48:10] There's an indie called Breakup Season that just won a bunch of awards at a festival in Utah.

[01:48:15] Where I play a dad. It's a bit of a stretch.

[01:48:19] So that's going to be on the festival circuit. Look for that.

[01:48:23] Directed by a very talented guy named Nelson Tracy.

[01:48:26] Very smart, very smart young man.

[01:48:28] I had a joke and he said, that's a good James Ebaniak joke.

[01:48:30] That's a good James Ebaniak joke, but not a good Mr. Breakup joke.

[01:48:34] Got neckties older than him.

[01:48:36] Yeah, I got neckties older. I have mouse pads older than this.

[01:48:39] And of course, you know, Oppenheimer, if you haven't seen that.

[01:48:43] Let's give Oppenheimer the blank check.

[01:48:45] Yeah, that movie's not really getting...

[01:48:47] I can be briefly glimpsed at Oppenheimer.

[01:48:49] In which you play Kurt Godel, who I believe had George Berns' glasses.

[01:48:52] He had circle glasses.

[01:48:54] I do. I have little circle glasses in that. I don't have a cigar, but I...

[01:48:57] Well, about half there.

[01:48:59] I'm an Easter egg. Kurt Godel is sort of a... for math geeks.

[01:49:03] He was a famous physicist.

[01:49:05] So I didn't think I'd make the cut, but somehow Mr. Nolan kicked me in.

[01:49:10] You stuck to Einstein like White on Rice or whatever.

[01:49:13] I just stayed in the shot. I always tried to stay in the shot with Einstein.

[01:49:16] So you can see me waving like I'm photobombing.

[01:49:19] You made the cut and I feel like I heard so many blankies talk about at their screenings

[01:49:24] doing the fucking DiCaprio thing at the screen.

[01:49:27] I got a lot of texts from friends who had no idea it was in it.

[01:49:30] Yesterday, a friend of mine actually seemed to get angry with me

[01:49:33] because his suspension of disbelief shattered to the floor when fucking James Rabanian showed up.

[01:49:37] It's like, well, that's not... I know who that is.

[01:49:39] I also met demons in the movie. That didn't suspend your disbelief?

[01:49:42] Yeah, it's kind of... it's a mad, mad, mad bomb.

[01:49:45] Yeah. Yes.

[01:49:47] Someone turns around, hey, look who it is. It's Phil Silvers.

[01:49:49] Should have been the title.

[01:49:51] Thank you for being here, James.

[01:49:52] Always a pleasure.

[01:49:54] And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe.

[01:49:57] Thank you to Marie Barty for co-producing the show.

[01:50:01] Thank you to Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for their artwork.

[01:50:05] Thank you to AJ McKeon and Alex Barron for our editing.

[01:50:08] Layne Montgomery in the Great American Novel for our theme song,

[01:50:11] JJ Birch for our research.

[01:50:14] I should mention AJ McKeon, also production coordinator on the show.

[01:50:17] You can go to BlankCheckPod.com for links to some real nerdy shit,

[01:50:19] including our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features.

[01:50:22] Next episode is Hot Dogs for Gauguin and Hot Tomorrows in two days.

[01:50:25] There we go. We're doing a temporal pincer movement,

[01:50:28] moving back to his two guarantors, basically.

[01:50:31] And also doing tabletop games, correct? Or are we still on turtles?

[01:50:35] It looks like we are still on turtles.

[01:50:37] Then we're still turtling. Turtle. Turtle.

[01:50:39] Tune in next week for Beverly Hills Cop.

[01:50:41] Good movie.

[01:50:43] A wildly successful film.

[01:50:45] That's true. I'm getting calls from the same spam people who call me.

[01:50:49] They call me every day. It just happens every day.

[01:50:52] Great. And as always, George Burns lived another 17 years after this movie was made.