Gone Girl with Esther Zuckerman

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check You fucking podcast

[00:00:24] I'm the podcast you married. The only time you liked yourself was when you were trying to be someone this podcast might like I'm not a quitter. I'm that podcast. I killed for you. Who else can say that?

[00:00:34] You think you'd be happy with a nice midwestern podcast? No way, baby. I'm it That's what I thought you were gonna do Thank you. I couldn't do all of Cool Girl, despite the fact that it will disappoint some people

[00:00:49] You doing Cool Girl would, I would have actually quit the podcast You would have quit Yep, would have been a, not because it's too long, because the idea of you saying some of that would be a little tough You married this podcast. You can't quit

[00:01:01] I quit. I would quit In that moment, I know I'm like, no, no, no, I quit. I quit. I'll go to jail. It's fine. Jail. Jail for me You're not in Missouri This is the podcast you fell in love with, David You can't get out of it now

[00:01:14] No, Missouri does have the death penalty No, I said you're not in Missouri Yes, oh, but New York also has the death penalty, FYI This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin I'm David

[00:01:23] It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want Sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce Baby This is a mini-series on the films of David Fincher

[00:01:40] It is called The Curious Pod of Benjamin Butt-cast We're only going to get to say that one more time Oh, that's so sad for you Second to last one we're recording Yeah Yes I think the listeners will hear it multiple more times Yeah

[00:01:53] But we've only got The Killer left to do after this Yeah, but also, by the way, there's only one film chronologically for listeners in between this and The Killer Alright, alright It's just, it's kind of, it remains wild that he goes cold for so long after this movie

[00:02:11] He made a TV show We've talked about it so many times, but it's just very indicative of what changed in the industry over the last nine years He had to mink He had to mink it up, but it took six years to get to mink after this

[00:02:24] It did, yeah, it took him six years Yeah, it's well to me I don't know, we're talking about Gone Girl today A movie that fucking slaps and rocks and rules and fucks Mm-hmm Right? A wonderful film Introduced our guest

[00:02:38] But also a movie that was, can I say it? You're going to say Big Titty'd Hit? It was a Big Titty'd Hit The Big Dick Hit It was a floppy dicked hit It was a floppy dicked hit Right? It was a big, flaccid, shower-salami'd hit

[00:02:50] I know, I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves But I did This is inevitable That we were going to talk about the dick first Well, I just like, I messaged David Okay Let's set it up now and we can bring it back later

[00:03:07] I feel like You said you'd never clocked it before I never really like clocked The Enormity of Death Yeah Before When I was watching it this time, I was really Like I've seen this movie Yeah Countless times Especially the back half Because it's like on TV a lot

[00:03:23] Sure And I'll put it on and just be like I'm going to watch the end of this movie You still have TV? Oh yeah, I love having TV It's the best I've been thinking about getting back into TV No, you gotta have What are your channels?

[00:03:35] I mean like we have all of like basic cable All the sports channels And HBO and Showtime Yeah Not stars? Not stars Or Cinemax? No Wow The movie channels I miss having Epic The movie channels are kind of fun to have but

[00:03:51] That's how I've watched the end of Gone Girl so many times It locks you into watching movies that you've seen Yeah, but I like that Yeah, I like it Good cable Yeah But I guess I was just saying that like

[00:04:03] This time I just really honed in on the dick Because I knew we were going to talk about it So I was just like I was like a chunky boy I gasped at the world premiere of this film when I saw the dick

[00:04:13] I've been with it since day one I was among the first people to see it And I was like oh shit Like you know I was right there with it And as I was walking out I was like You know a little glimpse of

[00:04:24] And the people were like really? Like immediately I had the experience of some people not really clocking Yeah, people didn't clock it No and I saw this film at least twice in theaters And I feel like my

[00:04:35] My opinion on the dick changed depending on where I was sitting In the theater too You know it is kind of like And some people were like I didn't see it at all And it's like might have been a mat problem

[00:04:47] You know with the projection at your theater Like it is the kind of thing you can kind of miss Like the For a man who is so compositionally specific He does not construct that frame to draw your attention to the dick You almost need to know

[00:05:01] No, the dick is almost just like a fun little surprise I'm looking for the dick and it's only at the one angle Alright, it's getting embarrassing Okay No, carry on, carry on Let's move off the subject I think that is under discussed

[00:05:12] Is that you also see on Neil Patrick Harris' dick No, that I was like That I clocked immediately Because it's covered in blood You see it immediately and it's covered in blood Yeah Wait, I missed it Yeah, it's brief It's got a bloody dick

[00:05:24] But I mean again it's not Both of these are incidental viewings of nudity It's not like the movies like Zoom in Like and playing like a guitar Which maybe it should I mean that kind of sounds fun Well, when you see Neil Patrick Harris' dick

[00:05:40] You are in the middle of going like Jesus Christ And the music is going like You know and you're like oh my god Like you're not really like The reason why it always jumps out to me When I watch it is it's the kind of thing Neil's dick?

[00:05:53] Yes Jesus Christ This is what our podcast is This is the podcast you married I know, it's just right at the start And Marie just texted us About the button episode having a lot of dick talk Which I didn't even remember And I'm like what are we doing

[00:06:06] Go on, go on Sorry, go on Dick's in the button episode? Apparently, are you not checking your texts? Yeah, I was Look, the thing about the Neil Patrick Harris dick And this is the point This is to your point of being kind of incidental nudity

[00:06:19] Every time I watch the movie And she's about to dismount him I'm like conditioned by watching So many other movies that don't do this Where I'm like how are they going to frame this So you don't see his dick Yeah, they'll sneak it Right? Like there

[00:06:33] Right, there's somehow Suddenly his underwear is back up Or whatever it is Right, well but he couldn't have done that Of course, but I see those moments in other movies Where I'm like you're cheating And it took me out of it for a second

[00:06:45] And in fact, it jumps out to you less Watching this because you're just like Oh they're not cheating They're doing the thing you actually see in this moment This is an episode on Gone Girl Our guest is Esther Zuckerman Hey, what's up?

[00:06:57] We're going straight into the deep end Yes, welcome Esther To Blank Check for basically So we're saying it's your sixth time? Last time we said it was my fifth time But we can just say it was my fifth time this time The asterisk is

[00:07:14] It's your fifth film discussed on Blank Check Not including special features I think you did one of those We just did an episode with Katie Rich recently That will come out 15 years from now Oh, that's right Yeah, and that She similarly has an asterisk on her record

[00:07:29] Because of the Titanic episode being split in two But I've always argued because Kill Bill style That was shot as one episode It should count as one Whether it's I'll do anything but you coming back weeks later I did come back to the studio

[00:07:43] You did, which is true But still, this is your fifth film discussed on this show Apart from the fourth You get two fifth episode celebrations Captain Marvel, which apparently did the commentary for it Can't remember that I did The Marvel's in cinemas soon Yeah America can't wait

[00:07:59] Beating down the doors Esther, welcome Thank you I'm so excited to be here for this episode I know you are I'm so excited I didn't get bummed for the more famous person Let's just talk about it Let's just tell you Dicks Booking issues

[00:08:17] Does everyone want to know who couldn't make it for Zodiac? Should we talk about that? We could talk about that Sorry, I was being rude No, no I think, look I think We had There was No, we shouldn't Alright, go ahead No, I'm just going to say this

[00:08:32] There was another episode we offered that I think would have been good Yes Yeah, yeah I had two options You had a good backup I had a good backup Yes, of course In fact, we need to book that backup episode now We do need to book that now

[00:08:42] And there was There was, I think, a pretty There was a channel of transparency I would have been On all sides I would have I would have bowed down and sort of exited gracefully There was a famous person where it was like

[00:08:57] Specifically might be a very good fit for this episode Of course And there was a pathway to that person And it like took a while to pin down whether or not it was going to happen Yes But you had pinned this very early on

[00:09:10] For a very specific reason that I think we should just get out of the way Oh, really? Is there a reason I'm unaware of? Well, no I mean, it was It was You said you wanted to share this anecdote Well, yeah It was funny because

[00:09:23] Oh, I know what you're talking about Yeah So Bob, my boyfriend Had told me like when we watched this movie We were not together when this movie came out in 2014 No We got together the following year He was dating someone else when this movie came out

[00:09:38] He was dating someone else when this movie came out And they saw it together So this is BES BES And afterwards B-E-S BES BES Afterwards Apparently she told him That she would like to do this to him She was like Wait, wait, wait That's what it was?

[00:09:55] She was like I'm gonna gon-girl you? She was like She was like I would like to gon-girl you basically But like she said this as a sort of like I'm so mad at you so I now will wanna gon-girl you? Yeah Okay, okay

[00:10:05] Because it'd be weird if it was like We're doing great It'd be so fun to gon-girl you No, no, no Was it said in the heat of an argument or was it said No, I think it was more just like casually after they saw the movie

[00:10:14] Maybe I'll gon-girl you So it was just like walking out of the theater Like that might be the solution Here's my take Yeah I think, okay so the world of this movie Yeah Where, um, Jesus what's her name? Amy? Amazing Amy herself Amy Dunn?

[00:10:32] Doesn't get mugged by friend of the show Lola Kirk Uh-huh And acquaintance of the show Boyd Holbrook Just kidding we don't know him He was supposed to do the gon-girl That would be funny actually We thought he was a fan of this movie

[00:10:46] I guess we could've asked Lola I didn't even think of that I don't know where Lola is these days We could've asked Lola I feel like that happens sometimes when we're covering a movie People who've done the movie never really want to do that

[00:10:55] No, and I don't think we want them to do it We mentioned it to Max About social networking he was like oh no I wouldn't want to do it No, I even felt like we framed it to Max as like Maybe another Fincher Because you've worked with Fincher

[00:11:06] Would you want to do anything other than social networking Right But it always just feels like Even sag strike issues aside Which makes it like this is the one time we couldn't do this Right, they wouldn't be able to talk about

[00:11:17] That's also not what the format of our show is If people have insight with the Yeah, no it isn't Into the person but not this specific film And you want like 10 minutes of people talking about the dick Sure I mean I'm sure Lola would have thoughts on that

[00:11:29] Lola would have thoughts on the dick It would be fun If she hadn't been mugged by Lola Yeah, if she sort of If her plan succeeds And she gets away to wherever I don't know what her next step is No, she's supposed to

[00:11:40] I mean she's gonna kill herself as part of it Yeah That's what she has on the post-it note Kill myself question mark She's not gonna do that Well I think part of it is that she's just like I don't know how this ends

[00:11:50] I guess that's what I have to do Yeah, because she wants him to have the Like get the death penalty And to a certain degree she's like stalling for time Like she kind of needs to be dead Yeah Okay, because I was wondering

[00:12:00] Like I guess if she shows up dead But like could she actually My point is I think she's actually worse at this Than she thinks she is Which the movie is sort of on board with I think the movie

[00:12:10] Yeah, I mean the movie is very aware of that She does a really bad job Yes Like Lola Kirk literally says like you I mean Lola Kirk doesn't pin that she's Amy No Which is like Which is a clever actually, a clever idea

[00:12:22] She's like I don't actually care You just have money in your pocket But she's like, but Lola Kirk pegs that She is really bad at like hiding That she's hiding something Right And they are instantly be like You're a rich person like Right

[00:12:36] You know, she lets the money bag fall She doesn't respond to the name she gives herself Like Yeah And she thinks things through Up to the point where she leaves And then once she leaves You guys are right Her focus is all on him Yes

[00:12:51] Like what do I do to make him look bad Right Because that's why I'm doing this But like could he have gotten away with it Is my question Could he have gotten away with it Correct Now if she kills herself You know what, even if she does

[00:13:03] Try to stage her own death In a way that looks like he did it Yeah Would he get away with it He hires Tanner Bault And Tanner Bault's like What kind of moron would kill a woman in his house And then invite the cops over

[00:13:13] Have this orgy of evidence You know, what kind of You know what I mean Can he get away with it I think if the body shows up He's fucked Yeah, I think if the body But what if the body shows up

[00:13:21] And it's like not consistent with what happened Because it wouldn't be And Tanner Bault He's the best damn lawyer in the biz I mean, Tanner Bault is I don't know I don't think he gets away with it I don't I think he might get away with it

[00:13:34] I think if she doesn't To be clear Getting away with it In that he did not commit the crimes Right He is innocent as we know Do you think he walks Is the question I don't think he walks I don't think he walks Alright

[00:13:49] I mean, I'm like trying to Like compare this in my mind To other sort of like media sensation cases But I think a lot of them Like, I mean, the one that just Natalie Holloway Yes Where a lot of it was

[00:14:02] Like the lack of the body for so long Yeah When it's a disappearance People kind of live in the ambiguity for longer Whereas I think when a body shows up And there's this sort of like Visceral emotional element of like We found a damaged body

[00:14:16] There is such a bloodlust In the media that I think like Does translate over into the courtroom Yeah Yeah, yeah I mean, obviously part of what is Good about this movie as well Is that he's kind of bad at being Right, that's what I was going to say

[00:14:33] Accused But then he kind of is starting to get good at it Yes But he also is good at it in a way where He's trying to appeal to her He knows she's still out there All that, you know Right, and the moment

[00:14:44] It's just fun to think about The moment that he gets good at it Is the moment she falls back in love with him Yes And in a way falls like In love with the truer version of him Yes But also she's I'm going to say this

[00:14:57] She's a little cuckoo No, she's amazing I don't know She does some stuff That I think is a little rude I think she's I think she's a girl boss Yes I think she's a girl boss Okay, you agree with me I agree She's a girl boss

[00:15:10] I think she's a girl boss Is she a girl boss? Yes, slay queen Yeah, she got that bag She actually kind of lost the bag She loses Definitively loses She hands over the bag She has a bag She hands it over That he's taken from her Yeah

[00:15:23] By Lola Kirk with a Very visible cold story Which I have always focused on Every single time I watch this movie May well be makeup Lola's so good in this movie No, I mean I assume it's makeup She's really good She's great in this movie

[00:15:36] She's better than Boyd I actually think Boyd is kind of a non-factor Which is fine, I guess I like him as an actor I do too He's meant to just be kind of a silly doofus I mean, I watched this with the Fincher commentary

[00:15:50] And he was saying like I like how irrelevant he is to her Immediately the moment he's introduced Yeah Like he's sort of like out of focus In the back of the shot As Lola is talking to Amy About like how much boyfriends suck Right, right, right You know

[00:16:09] Yes, yes, yes, yes She's good Everyone's good in this movie Everyone is good Astounding But I think Amy is a bad person I'm just saying I disagree Slay queen Slay queen I also just want to Wait, wait, wait She slays She's a queen who slays

[00:16:26] You're not being an ally, David Well As a father of a daughter There's a lot of language being thrown at me right now Not to bring up my Not to bring up another point of discussion That we will get to later

[00:16:37] But a person who was going to star in this movie Reese Witherspoon Had a Quibi show that I love Called Fierce Queens And we'd like her to return to the network Reese had a Quibi? Yeah You're inviting her back Called Fierce Queens Which was about

[00:16:54] Which was a nature show About animals that were fierce queens Gotcha So in the same way Amy is a slay queen Because she actually slays These are fierce queens Because they're fierce Cheetah And all the commentary that Reese did was like You go, girl boss cheetah Yeah

[00:17:13] I mean, and as we all know That got one bajillion Quibi hits Yes Which is a metric of my personal algorithm Which I will not reveal how it's actually You don't call them hits You call them punches Yeah I also just want to put on record

[00:17:25] One zillion views Views count as someone even thinking about it This bite was punched Can I also just put on record That I really, really love my boyfriend Bob And I do not want to gone girl him No, that's why you're still together

[00:17:40] That's why you are with him But you at no point have ever considered gone girling him No No, and I think it's good to establish that On like now Yeah I just want to I did, I did want to establish it I just wanted to make it clear

[00:17:52] No, no, it's smart for you to say Because that way if you do end up gone girling him At some later point in time You've already established that you don't want to do it Everyone heard that That's true, that's the alibi But I recently visited

[00:18:01] I don't know how you're going to feel in a year or two I went to Roku City Oh sure And I bought Quibi back It's lovely this time of year So purple Yeah Just the sky is at it's most purple there in October

[00:18:11] Yes, the trees, the leaves are turning purple And I went to a little purple office And I bought Quibi back for five Quibi bucks And so now I do own Quibi So you can bring back Fierce Queens And so well we're trying to get Reese on the phone

[00:18:26] But unfortunately she's not starting on the phone I've heard a rumor And I understand it because you know The stock market swings on this information So if you can't say this If you can't confirm or deny on mic I know I've got FCC coming after me

[00:18:39] I've heard you guys are doing R&D Into the idea of doing longer bites Really long bites Lonby Lonby Low-eyes Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Definitely I mean everything's on the table Right Right, that Quibi's gonna rebrand as the king of slow media

[00:19:02] Remember when it was a year of like No, no, no, people want this People want this And then it came out And it was like one day in It was like Quibi has failed Well it also came out I know I know when it came out But still

[00:19:14] Anyway Quibi will be back It was clear for a year or two leading into it That no one wanted it And then it came out at the time Under the circumstances That would accelerate its death So To such an extreme degree

[00:19:26] That they had bought Super Bowl ads that are like You know that feeling of being stuck Waiting for your table at a restaurant And people are like No, I don't know that I fucking have been ordering in for six months Quibi launched on April 6th, 2020 It's like

[00:19:40] It should just go on a tombstone Yeah Like just like Cause of death Launched on April 6th, 2020 They should've held Oh boy Anyway, Quibi's doing better than ever Just to be clear And obviously We're really excited to work with Reese again And every time I say that

[00:19:57] I have to read this statement That was given to me by our attorney Reese Witherspoon will not be working with Quibi In any shape or form ever In perpetuity forever and ever Amen But we might be working with her This movie Reese Witherspoon Who's starting to build out

[00:20:09] Her sort of Southern Oprah dynasty Sees this book With her producing partner Hello Sunshine Yes, correct She buys this Yeah, I mean hell sure Right And this is in her sort of post-wild Like Reese has taken back the reins No, they came out the same year

[00:20:25] It's not wild You know what? Yeah, I know Good point Okay Yes But all this to say She's clearly in this headspace of like I kind of want to get back to doing serious work I want to find material That I can adapt for myself Takes this book

[00:20:40] Has the smart idea Bring Fincher on board Fincher immediately says By the way You're not starring in this Well, okay Alright, okay Let's talk about it David Fincher Which I think is the right decision Well, we have to discuss that That is the question that must be answered

[00:20:55] And I think wild coming out the same year Vindicates it of like She ended up in the better thing for her I have a take But we'll talk I think the answer is yes Or at least I like to float the idea Would Reese have been good

[00:21:07] But Fincher David Fincher So his film before Gone Girl, of course Is Girl with a Dragon Tattoo Girl with a Dragon Tattoo Yeah You a fan? Yes But I haven't watched it that much So good He's doing well Maybe that's a slight thing It underperformed

[00:21:28] But it still did well Yes As much as it underperformed a little bit I also think people were like Maybe we We pumped up our expectations too high for this thing Yeah, maybe we shouldn't Rather than blaming him for executing the thing incorrectly

[00:21:43] But obviously there's no sequel to that happening And instead While he's working, I think, on this social network He had signed with Disney To make 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Yes Taking over from their first choice, McG Of course Not joking Yep And Scottsy Burns writing the script Yes

[00:22:05] So big writer He wants to do it with Brad Wants to do it with Brad Daniel Craig and Channing Tatum supposedly Are both considered at some point I mean Disney basically His version of the movie would cost over $200 million $200 million To make it in Australia Right

[00:22:19] And Disney has a very short list of like If you get one of these five guys It goes He said It became this bizarre endeavor to find Which three names you could rub together To make Platinum He wanted the French character on an axe To be French

[00:22:32] I assume Disney was not interested in that They were like Yeah, is Benedict Cumberbatch French? Whoever it is A bad hero Whoever the Benedict Cumberbatch is of 2010 Channing Tatum I suppose Put a mustache on him Might be funny So it does fall apart It's one of many

[00:22:50] Spinter swings we never get to see He's always In interviews with that one He always talks about like I wanted to make my Empire Strikes Back And that I have always found it astonishing How dark Empire Strikes Back is While working as a movie for children

[00:23:05] And I thought I could I had it in me to maybe thread that needle once To make something on a blockbuster scale I mean you read this shit where he's like It was gonna be Osama Bin Nemo Nemo is gonna be a Middle Eastern prince

[00:23:18] With a wealthy family Who decided white imperialism is evil And should be resisted We were gonna put kids in a place Where they would agree with everything he espouses It sounds amazing But take issue with the means Yeah, it sounds cool But Disney is probably like What?

[00:23:31] Osama Bin Nemo? We don't wanna do that Let's also say He's like starting That movie is being developed You know by McG in the era That we've talked about a lot Where Disney is like We need things that boys like And they don't have them

[00:23:44] And over the time that Fincher Is trying and failing to get this movie off the ground Marvel and Star Wars get acquired And they're like We never need to make a John Carter ever again We don't need to make Tron Legacy

[00:23:55] We don't need to try to like mine our archives We'll buy the IP Yes Rather than trying to invent it whole cloth Now we'll probably see some attempts At invention again coming soon Cleopatra, we've discussed this movie I think a little bit With Angelina Jolie

[00:24:10] He is attached to that Yes Taking over from Paul Greengrass That was originally a James Cameron project I'm fascinated by that specific project It's the same one that Galved out But Patty Jenkins left it Who's supposed to do it now? Patty Jenkins is the queen of leaving projects

[00:24:29] I don't really know I was gonna say The Cleopatra movie almost feels like A project meant to help you negotiate For the project you actually want Right now it's Kari Skoglund Yes Who's that again? Coming hot off of Falcon and the Winter Soldier Yeah, no, that was it

[00:24:46] Sorry Wrong person Just an absolute victory lap For everyone's favorite Disney Plus show Yeah, she's done a lot of TV Like that does not seem like someone That would hand a colossal project like that But I don't know When Avatar came out And Fincher Cameron was like

[00:25:03] I might actually have some more Avatar stories in me And Fox was like Okay And he's like Here's how much you'd have to pay me And they were like Yeah, you said this Slow it down Cleopatra's leverage He then flirted with Cleopatra And I feel like

[00:25:16] Well, you know who else flirted with Cleopatra? Julius Caesar Yeah Antony and her had sex But Julius and her we don't actually know That doesn't mean they didn't flirt That's what I'm saying Consummated Yeah What's the other Unrealized Fincher project, Griffin? In this era? Yes Specifically?

[00:25:36] Star Wars Episode 7 Of course Kathleen Kennedy Yes Definitely talks to him about it The first two asks in some order Are her and Brad Bird Or him and Brad Bird Supposedly the first ask was Nolan And Nolan just was like Right

[00:25:52] And then they did the courtesy Nolan ask Right And then it's Fincher And then Brad Bird Right Brad Bird says I would do it if I weren't doing Tomorrowland A decision I think he probably Backs up 100% to this day And Fincher says like

[00:26:07] Will you give me complete autonomy? And she's like what the fuck are you talking about? She gave her directors more autonomy than most But yes Yes He also allowed a certain someone to be Frank In between these two movies Tattoo and Gone Girl Which is important because

[00:26:26] He's had the success of House of Cards Which he gets less involved in as the show goes on But he makes a tremendous amount of money over And Netflix as they often do And he pays a bunch of money to like Earn his shine

[00:26:42] And use it to boost their whole profile I mean it is crazy Like to think back I remember sitting in that Dinky Atlantic office Yeah The day House of Cards came out And sort of before it came out Having no The Soho office or the Park Avenue?

[00:26:59] Yeah the Soho office And having no Like No real sense of Like what it would What it was going to mean That there was a show on Netflix Maybe this is a one off gimmick And then it comes out And everyone starts watching it

[00:27:15] And just being like oh this is a new People didn't even love it They liked it They liked it But also everyone watched it Like within that first weekend And just sort of like Realizing that that was a thing That was going to happen now Not only that

[00:27:31] It was sort of like a strange Thinking back to it is sort of strange They also hit Ten years ago They hit and then it very quickly Like Netflix immediately had The kind of reputation that like HBO and AMC briefly Fought to have of like

[00:27:46] Oh does Netflix have like a brand identity That is a marker of some Consistent level of quality It was briefly Briefly for about the first year If Netflix had a show it was interesting It was the equivalent of like HBO putting something new on Sunday And now

[00:28:02] It's still true Every Netflix show Perfect Prestige I'm watching these Later digital Fincher movies Recently And knowing that he starts doing The shows around this time We all complain about like the sameness Of how all the Netflix shows look And Netflix has Basically a style guide

[00:28:24] That they impose on most shows It does feel like As much as I love the way That Zodiac, Dragon Tattoo, Social Network And Gone Girl look I do watch these movies now And go like oh we're kind of living In a world where everything is forced to

[00:28:40] Look like a bad Fincher project Horrible knockoff Because he established the look Of Netflix prestige But it's way not as good No it's watered down Wait what even is Netflix prestige now? Genuine question What's like their most prestigious I guess the crown still The crown is still

[00:28:54] I mean and but then I mean besides that There's this sort of sub-universe Which I like but it's very much It's own thing Well but that's it's That's over there Yeah I mean now that's done He's left Yeah now he's done

[00:29:09] I mean Fall of the House of Usher Was really fun though And he's like He makes fun shits But I'm talking more about their Like shitty dramas Like their junky dramas Um The Diplomat Oh sure Yes That I think look like crappy Fincher I don't watch those shows

[00:29:25] You know why? I don't watch them either Of course I don't watch them Why? Because you don't like bad things? Yeah I don't want to I think they've started to look less Like crappy Fincher The Diplomat sort of looks like 24 I mean or like

[00:29:39] Which one the Diplomat is? Kerry Russell It's pretty fun Because it's just sort of like She's a diplomat She's a diplomat It's like not smart But it's like very But it's very entertaining And she's great to watch So Kerry Russell's the diplomat Richard Madden's the bodyguard Yeah

[00:29:56] What's the one with the kid from Super 8? I don't know Is it like the agent or something? I don't fucking know I can't keep up with this garbage It was something for a second Sorry go on And then the other Netflix prestige thing

[00:30:08] Just to close the circle on this Which is its own thing Is also the Bridgerton stuff Which is quasi- That's not prestige I know but it's quasi-prestige And they're still trying to The night agent is the one I was fucking thinking of I don't even know

[00:30:21] I don't like night agents I like my night managed Okay By Tom Hiddleston Yes Not to have an agent Who is from Super 8 And I like my agents in broad daylight Yeah I have no idea what this is Gillian Flynn Wait you guys are forgetting that

[00:30:35] Emily went to Paris Oh yeah Emily went to Paris And that's pretty prestige Didn't they buy that off of Trist Paramount Network They buy a lot of this shit They buy it all That was made for a channel They can go to hell Listen to me They can

[00:30:48] No they're alright I don't care Someone's Netflix paychecks Are about to stop showing up Notoriously kind on all Netflix projects David Sims Look if they make something good I am next to it I think you're more critical than most Yeah they've been mad at me at moments

[00:31:02] Gillian Flynn Entertainment Weekly She graduates from Northwestern Universe in 1998 Thank you for including this fact JJ Thank you JJ Gillian Flynn JJ went to Northwestern to be clear Gillian Flynn worked at EW Is that Gillian Gillian Flynn worked at EW I don't know I dated a Gillian

[00:31:24] So I always Well humble brag my friend Gillian Flynn I believe that's Gillian Went to EW And would always try to write novels She said she had many failed attempts And then read Dennis Lehane's Mystic River Which in my opinion is An incredible piece of writing

[00:31:42] That was turned into a Flawed movie His worst adaptation That's an interesting question I would have to Take a look at the whole list She reads that And she's like This has an unsolved crime As if it were a real crime This has an unsolved crime

[00:31:57] As it's spine But it's not really about the crime Like it's about the characters And all this emotional stuff The crime is the red herring in a way Exactly And so she's like That's what I need I need some sort of crime As the red herring

[00:32:10] For what the book's actually about Right And so Sharp Objects and Dark Places Are both kind of like Attempts at that Right Has anyone seen Dark Places The Charlize Theron movie? I read the book I have not seen the movie It does exist Yeah I was like

[00:32:26] Wait why is no one Oh someone actually has Right And it just didn't go anywhere Who directed that? Ariaga? No Someone halfway respectable Directed that movie No, Ariaga you're thinking of The Burning Plain Right Which is the Jennifer Lawrence Jill Paquette Brenner Okay well Truly not

[00:32:43] No offense to him But not someone I know Or he's a big blanky Or he's active on the red He's gonna be really happy to hear that I know he is It came That movie Dark Places Came out a year after Gone Girl

[00:32:53] And had like Gone Girl on the poster Sure Like from the author of Gone Girl You know like they were really trying The character The poster is Charlize Theron Holding up the theatrical one sheet For Gone Girl Wait you know what

[00:33:03] I actually think I did see Dark Places And? Clearly memorable as hell Yeah The book is fun In the old big box The first two books are moderate success But not huge Gone Girl in 2012 Huge breakthrough Kind of immediately Right like an immediate literary phenomenon

[00:33:22] That was one of those books That was regarded as trashy Because it's a crime novel And because of the way it was marketed I would say Yeah And then there were even people Kind of writing pieces of like This should have been considered for awards

[00:33:35] And wasn't because of the kind of Bias against this genre Arguably the exact same thing That happened to the movie Indeed I mean and this is also like The thing that Obviously we have to talk about this But like when you're reading that book

[00:33:46] It is such a skilled piece Of like literary ingenuity Like I mean it's just like Unreliable narrators Two unreliable narrators And it's just But when you reach that halfway point And it switches It's Also great in the movie Also great in the movie And I remember

[00:34:07] I'd read the book And I remember being like a huge I was a huge fan of the book And I was so excited for the movie Because I was a huge fan of David Fincher But it was sort of like How is he going to do this?

[00:34:18] How is he going to How is And how When she adapts it How are they going to make this work on screen? Because it is such like a little Fun piece of First person narration Trickery And a very literary Yeah She's putting herself in it more

[00:34:36] In a way She's from Missouri She exited journalism You know At a sort of crisis point for that industry Much like Amazing Amy and Amazing Nick I remember loving her EW work That was sort of a golden age Yeah And that she was like

[00:34:51] Landed as a distinct voice Yeah That was a good time for EW Yeah And you know Leslie Dixon Producer Who worked on movies like Frankie Friday and The Thomas Crown Affair And does Sharp Objects Sure, I believe you I think so Reads the manuscript Takes it right

[00:35:11] To the top of Sunshine Mountain And delivers it to Reese Witherspoon He said hello Sunshine Yes Reese Witherspoon loved The manuscript They start pitching it around 20th Century Fox acquires the rights And Witherspoon actually never had the rights She shepherded the deal

[00:35:31] And was brought on as a producer But she did not own the rights At any point Gil Flynn I call her Old Gilly Yes, Gilly Sorry Target Lady takes the first Passage of the script And that didn't work out So they brought in Gilly Yes

[00:35:48] That didn't work out So they brought in Gilly and Flynn Right, they asked Leslie and Melody To turn on a lamp And Gilly Writes a screenplay She'd also never written A screenplay before She turns to A simple plan for inspiration Which I really like Yeah Oh, that's awesome

[00:36:07] The band? Yeah, the band No, the movie That we covered on the show Yeah

[00:37:12] I was going to say It's been so long That I've read the book So long ago that I read the book And I've seen the movie So many times That I can't remember It's overpowered it Yeah In your memory Turns in the screenplay Fincher reads it

[00:37:25] And is like This is what I want to do It's not just I want to do Gone Girl It's like she has the right approach Sure So rather than let's Okay, the novelist took a pass Let's now kick her off And bring in Andrew Kevin Walker Scott Burns

[00:37:40] Eddie Eric Roth I will work together with her On like making this great Like, you know And she's the writer It is interesting He obviously Andrew Kevin Walker Does a lot of sort of Uncredited ghost work On a lot of his scripts But I feel like he is

[00:37:55] Pretty loyal To his screenwriters Where If Even if the material Is not totally working for him He'd rather just drill into that person For like a year A year and a half Until they give him The version of it That he wants They just seem to

[00:38:10] Really like each other They seem to have very much Clicked those two Well they almost Immediately announced After this The Strangers on a Train That doesn't happen Would've been cool With the two of them And Affleck Could've been cool Could've been cool I mean, I love a train

[00:38:25] Yeah I love strangers Yes You know, and I see all Of his strangers this year And I'm like Where's the train? I don't want a train Like, they're just sitting You have the right amount Of strangers For once In the movie He actually That movie actually

[00:38:40] I will be clear Has tons of trains So what's your complaint? There's a ton of trains In that movie I have complaints about that movie But I should be clear Not It's lack of trains Okay Yeah But it would've been nice If it was called

[00:38:53] All of the Strangers on a Train Yeah, no I'll agree with that It's more butts in seats Like You know They talk about movies They like Lolita Clockwork Orange Talented Mr. Ripley She goes to Steve Kloves And is like How did you adapt The Harry Potter books? Like

[00:39:09] How did you approach Like just What to keep What not? I love her Because that's Just such a I went to I also like Went to J school I don't know if she went to Medill But like I'm a journalist Sort of This is how You figure out

[00:39:26] How to write a screenplay Is by asking other people Yeah Yeah That's cool Especially adaptation Yeah Which is very specific You know You're not gonna learn Going to You know Sid Field Yeah Classes or whatever Yeah She Fincher makes some changes She collects her own blood

[00:39:45] In the book He doesn't like that He's like That wouldn't work Like he makes changes like that Where he's like No, practically That makes no sense Where he's like It's too If you cut your jugular Like no Too hard Like he's I just like thinking about Sure Sure

[00:40:02] The big Three Names initially cited Olivia Wilde Julianne Hoff I mean Should have just You know Stopped right there That's wild Emily Blunt Natalie Portman Charlize All no mentioned But those are all squashed And Rosamund Pike Then floats You know Into nowhere You know Out of nowhere

[00:40:24] As the Well And Reese wants to do it Yeah Sure And he says No He I mean I don't know if There are quotes To this effect In the dossier But like The way I always heard him talk about it Was like I read this

[00:40:41] And I immediately felt It needed to be a Hitchcock blonde Which is just not Who Reese is as a type I think Reese is Rosamund Pike literally played a character In a play called Hitchcock Blonde Right Of course I think Reese is like

[00:40:52] I think Reese could have played this role Incredibly well In a different version of this movie Right I don't think she would fit into a Fincher version I Don't think Reese is right For this role In the same way That I Think Reese Is

[01:55:14] I Think Reese Is I Think Reese is Not Just A Fischer In the same way That I Think Reese is To me The Best Of all It's It's Just It's The Best Of All Of Them I Don't at like, sort of... subversive feminist work that this like,

[01:55:51] that feels trying to speak to a specific moment. What are you thinking of? Drag them! I'm not even, I mean like, honestly, like, I am a defender of this movie, but like, promising young woman, like, you know. I'm somebody who likes that movie.

[01:56:09] Wow, both her movies have come up on this podcast? David's making a face that I won't describe. I like, I did... That makes it sound, I'm making a grimace. No, but I did... So he's making more of a Hamburglar. But it does feel like they're...

[01:56:21] What did he say? Hamburglar face. David's grimacing, I said Hamburglar. Probably the best joke I've made in 15 years. Ah, get out of here. You're gonna be doing two of those a week. But what I was gonna say was like, even in its fucked upness, it's sort of like,

[01:56:38] it feels like Gone Girl sort of latched on to a, was sort of organically spoke to a moment rather than latching onto a moment and therefore feels sort of timeless in its commentary on like men and women dynamics and the sort of cool girl feminism of the time.

[01:57:02] And it felt, it doesn't feel dated in a way that I think, you know, other stuff has. I agree. I mean, I also have to fend promising young woman. David's now making a Ronald McDonald face. Mayor McCheese, please. Okay, Mayor McCheese. I'm sorry, it's the funnier version.

[01:57:24] But I think that is a movie that like on a pretty fundamental level does not really have a clarity in what it is saying or what its worldview is. It often does things that are like working against itself. Whereas I think the cool girl monologue is like,

[01:57:40] was taken by a lot of people at the time because it was such a good entertaining summation of a thing that had not necessarily been totally crystallized. Kind of a rallying call inadvertently. But it is like means to an end for the larger thing

[01:57:56] that I think this movie is about. And even Rosamund Pike calls it out later in the movie more directly, but it's given less attention here, which is just like, dating is this weird form of theater. Like relationship is a form of theater.

[01:58:10] And the most extreme part of that is that when people meet each other, they present the absolute best version of themselves. There is this trickery, inflirtation, and seduction in like meet-cutes of just like, well, you choose when to dole out what information about yourself,

[01:58:30] show what sides when people get deep enough into the foxhole with you that those things are no longer like turn-offs, right? And the cool girl thing is a version of that. And the movie presents that as like part of a larger societal pressure towards women.

[01:58:45] But there's also the thing that they call out about like, Nick was presenting a like impossibly charming version of himself that he could not maintain. And like when he's tired, he's not that charming. And eventually she has to spend time around tired Nick. You know?

[01:59:01] But that's dating too. You're presenting your best version. I'm saying that's the bigger point this movie is making is that like you date someone based on the best version you meet or the version that you fall in love with.

[01:59:13] And then over time, those layers start to go away. And it's like the best relationships are ultimately the ones where when those layers go away, you still like each other. But some people find themselves in these situations where you're like, wait, who am I with?

[01:59:26] And it creeps up on you over time, over a long period of time. And I think some people might go to couples therapy. Some people might cheat on their partner. Some people gone girl their husbands. I don't understand those three equivalent things.

[01:59:40] Amy's move is like, what if I gone girl you? And then you say, as you say, she's like, maybe I'll just kill myself to prove a point. I think six of some half a dozen of the other. I think your therapy gone girling are like.

[01:59:52] Okay, here's my question. And I mean, we're trying to understand the mindset of a fictional character who is as Esther says, a little crazy. But still, does she want the whole time for Nick to, quote unquote, be the man she married again

[02:00:06] and like win her back, which is what he does. Somewhat inadvertently. Or is that another escape valve for her when she kind of realizes like, I actually don't know what to do with myself as a person. No, I think it's an escape valve.

[02:00:21] Because I think what happens is. Because this is a movie about marriage, right? It's like a whole satire. I think it's the thing is like, she never really wants to kill herself. No. She never like. She doesn't know what to do with herself. She doesn't know what to.

[02:00:31] She's the dog who caught the car, right? Right, she planned it all up to a point. She always has a question mark next to kill herself. She doesn't feel like that's necessary. And she starts doubting it when she's spending, when she's in the sort of motel area.

[02:00:52] She starts sort of to doubt that element of the plan. Because she's also having too much fun watching him sort of get grilled over the coals. Is that right? Grilled over the coals? I don't know. Yeah, I would say. And then once she loses all her money,

[02:01:04] she's like, she reaches out to Desi, which she knows is a trap anyway. And then. Desi is the desperation play. Desi is the desperation play. And as soon as she gets there, she's like, oh fuck, I need to get out of this. But that moment.

[02:01:18] And then she's watching the interview and she's like, oh, he's playing my game. Right, right. That's hot. My read on it is, I think it's not that she is specifically suicidal, but I think she has no sense of self anymore. Right?

[02:01:34] So it's like, number one thing is she wants to punish Nick. But the second thing is like, she cannot envision what her life is anymore. Because the key detail of this movie is, the book is the Amazing Amy series, right? It's not just that like her boyfriends

[02:01:49] have done this to her. It's not just Nick. And even there's a similarity in how Desi, Scoot and Nick all talk about her where they're like, I meet this girl and she seems unreal. Like how could she possibly be this great? Right?

[02:02:04] There's this presentation of her that is just impossible. And then when I can't keep up, it starts to fall apart or whatever. Like they all kind of have this thing of like, I kind of failed her. Right. Well, it's also this thing of like,

[02:02:16] she, which I believe if I'm not, if I'm remembering correctly, I think the book goes into more that like, you know, she was supposed to be this great writer and she's writing quizzes. Personality quizzes for magazines. You know, she's writing personality quizzes.

[02:02:31] She was supposed to have more of a career. She sort of- They keep telling you, you have to murder your husband. It's weird. I give up my cello. I give up the cello, the next book Amy becomes a cello prodigy. Like it's-

[02:02:40] She's actually something of a failure who has been like, who has kept up appearances. So she hates herself in a certain way. Thoroughly, deeply. So deeply. And she like, doesn't like who she is if she really has to spend time with herself,

[02:02:55] which she's now forced to do in Missouri. Right? She can live through the relationships, through her job, through her friends. But like suddenly all those things have gone away. They've been gone girled out of her life. The fact that she has to like go to press events, right?

[02:03:11] Like book parties for the anniversary of the book where a table of people want to sit around and ask her about who she is, this is her life. Like she's rich off of this, but like she has to do these fucking where are she now kind of things.

[02:03:25] It's sad. That have nothing to do with her present sense of self. They have entirely to do with like this constructed version of her that was a version of her that was a reflection of her never being good enough for her parents. She's amazing.

[02:03:38] Look how pretty she is. Look how talented she is. But also in the book, she's even better. And you're right. The books sound like they suck. No one would actually read them. But that has to be the thrust of the book of

[02:03:47] she is the most perfect girl in the world. She always does everything right. It's a great motif, right? It's a great device. So I think she's like, it's the fact that the post-it note is kill myself with a question mark. Yeah.

[02:03:59] That it's not a clear end point that she's like, I guess that's probably what I do because what else would I do at that point? Right. Because you can't go back to New York. She can't resume her life. Like, okay. I think when she pigs out,

[02:04:11] hits her face with a hammer, dyes her hair, reinvents herself in the Ozarks, there's a little bit of like, she's actually kind of stripped everything out of her personality. It's not like she's killing it. She's still doing a fake accent, but yes. But for once,

[02:04:25] she's like not playing the game of trying to impress other people. And I think that's the one where she's like, wait, why would I kill myself? I can just like reset. I can find a new life for myself. This isn't it, but like,

[02:04:35] I can venture out and find something new. When she goes to Desi, she's like, I need more money to continue doing research to figure out what kind of person I want to be. And then she's like, I'm going to do my project of reinvention,

[02:04:47] which is my new project. My old project was frame my husband for murder. Now my new project is my next phase. And then as you said, Esther, seeing him on the TV, doing the interview where he's talking to her. Suddenly it's like,

[02:05:01] oh, I'm reconnected with what made us like each other in the first place. I think that's true, but I do think it's also his escape valve. She is also kind of like, I fundamentally don't know who I want to be

[02:05:09] because I don't know who I want to be. I have no sense of self. And it's also like the Desi thing is desperation. And she realizes there she's in a worse place than she would ever be before because he's also psycho. And she's a terrifying character,

[02:05:23] but it's also like, it's why the cool girl monologue exists where it's just like, it's every step of her life has been building her to this point. Well, it's also, it is this weird relatability that she has because every, which is sort of what you were saying earlier,

[02:05:37] because everyone has put on a different face to impress somebody at some point in time. Right, I've never had. No, David Huffpack never has. He's always exactly. Yes, so authentic. Now I have, I want to, all right. How many Fincher films have voiceover narration?

[02:05:56] Obviously the film Gone Girl does. Fight Club. Fight Club has voiceover narration. The Killer. The Killer, this is my point. The Killer has voiceover narration. Benjamin Button has voiceover narration. A Diary as well, yeah. Right, much more sort of, that's the most mundane, I would say, right?

[02:06:12] That's really like. And then there's a casual trip down a laser. Seven has Morgan Freeman saying, you know, the world is, but he doesn't have much narration apart from that, right? No. Okay, so it's really just like, Fight Club, forget Button for a minute.

[02:06:26] Let's take Button out of the equation. I don't think you'd forget me if you met me. I got quite a curious case. But like Fight Club, Gone Girl, and The Killer are all very unreliable voice. Like the voiceover is ever present, but you're kind of like, wait,

[02:06:42] after a while you're like, wait, the voiceover's full of shit. I didn't realize. I didn't realize this was lying to me. And it's also like, they're also all like funny. I know you haven't seen The Killer yet, but like you will. But that's Fincher's fundamental take on dialogue,

[02:06:55] which I think I've invoked before, is he says like, I think people use words to lie. Dialogue should not be like revealing truth. Finchy, come on! No one's a truth out, no. All liars, perverts and liars. The truth comes across in the behavior and the actions,

[02:07:09] but like all dialogue is sort of what Gone Girl is getting at, of like you presenting the version of yourself you need to win that moment. Even if it's like 90% true, it's like how do I sell this? It's also so sort of great

[02:07:22] that you get the cool girl monologue and then actually the narration slips away. Yes. And then we're just with her. We're in hard reality. But then after that, what do we cut to? After some motel business, let me tell you what we cut to. And it's so crucial.

[02:07:42] Tyler Perry sitting laughing, being essentially like, what is the matter with you? This is the craziest shit I've ever heard. It's so vital for the audience, I think, to be like, yeah, this is crazy. This is how people behave. And Tyler Perry is so good. He's so well-passed.

[02:08:00] And it is. Look, I think Tyler Perry's obviously a talented performer, but he largely plays either Medea, who's a little on the colorful side. She's a little over the top. But I'd say he plays her quite well. So he certainly knows,

[02:08:14] he has a handle on that performance, I guess. Like he does when he's- Good afternoon. Hellerween. Or I feel like when he's in his own films and he's not playing Medea, he's usually playing kind of a boring character. Like he's playing kind of like a straight man.

[02:08:31] I'm just like a decent guy. Right, right, right. He often plays the sort of like, well, I can help you fix the house kind of like- You're like, why are you even doing this? But I guess, you know, you're such a big name.

[02:08:40] He is not a very nuanced writer. This is true. But, and then in this, you're like, he's so insanely like, it's such a natural performance, right? He's so funny. He's like so responsive. Like we were just like, can I get more of this?

[02:08:55] There are a couple of them. I think he'll pop in every other year or so and do one of these. His one scene in Those Who Wish Me Dead is incredible. It is. That is not a movie I think about often? Knockout thermostat one scene performance.

[02:09:09] But it is. I remember him being pretty good in Don't Look Up, not that I like care about that movie. He's like Tyler Perry bits that much. He is the best performance in Vice. He's, yeah, yeah. I mean, Vice sucks. I don't even remember.

[02:09:23] He's in Vice, all right. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, who's he in that? It was Baxter Stockman, my friend. Very good. Is he good? He's okay in that. I mean, that's one where he's like, I did that for my daughter. Alex Cross.

[02:09:37] Well, that's why Fincher cast him in this. I know. It's just, is he good in that? I mean, that's something that should, here's what's frustrating about Alex Cross. I'm always just kind of like, why didn't that work? Yeah. Right. Well, because he hired Rob Cohen. Yeah.

[02:09:54] Like largely a hack, right? He's a huge hack and he's a bad director. Right, and it was a project largely shepherded by Tyler Perry, who doesn't have the best dramatic instincts, is much better comedy than he is a drama.

[02:10:05] I'm just like, why can't I get a Tyler Perry crime thriller every three years? You know? If Gone Girl had come first and then he was like, I want to take on Alex Cross, I think a better Alex Cross franchise would have gotten constructed around him

[02:10:19] versus the moment Alex Cross happens, it felt almost like this weird vanity ego thing of like Tyler Perry releases three hit movies a year and now he wants to have his own like cop franchise. Right. Because that movie was Lionsgate as well. I can find out.

[02:10:36] It felt very much like a Tyler, if you want to do this, by all means go do this and then come back and give us three more Medea movies. Right, well, I mean, obviously the Alex Cross books are huge bestsellers.

[02:10:45] It's just a world where they're like, hell yeah, please. The upside on this is potentially great and the downside is almost nothing. I also think he is good in Star Trek and I- He is good in Star Trek. I will never forget, I saw that movie

[02:10:58] at the Regal Court Street, the audience going completely ballistic at the sight of him. Where I was kind of like, this man has more juice than anyone on earth right now. Like, you know, like the, also because no one knew he was in that movie

[02:11:11] in the Regal Court Street audience. Like, I think I'd heard like, oh, he's a huge Trek fan and wants to do a cameo like or something. Anyway, I'll never forget it. The only other one I haven't seen is Brain on Fire. What the fuck is that?

[02:11:23] Yeah, what is Brain on Fire? Chloe Grace Moretz. When she's in a movie, you know it's good. A young capable professional cannot explain her newly erratic behavior based on a bestseller. It was about this person who had encephalitis. There's a memoir. Yeah, I remember that book.

[02:11:37] Never saw the movie. No, that's just the only other instance of what we're talking about of like, Tyler Perry just turns in some serious supporting work and something. He's so good and this role obviously should be almost quasi villainous in a way. Like, oh, the fucking attorney

[02:11:51] who takes on the deadly husbands. He's likable immediately. He's like laughing, but he's like, look, I believe you because this is too crazy for you to be making it up. Right. But like, you know, I'm all the way in and you're just immediately like, I love this guy.

[02:12:06] Well, here's what Fincher said. Go ahead. One, he said Tyler Perry is one of the best living actors at listening on screen, which is an interesting thing. And crucial. And I don't think I would have picked up on. Like Fincher clearly just saw that in him

[02:12:21] and it certainly pays off like crazy in this film. Right? Right. But the other thing he said is like, you read the character in the book, the way the guy is positioned, the way he's framed, the way he's talked about his reputation,

[02:12:33] the types of cases he represents, right? Often representing guilty people. The way it reads on paper is you imagine him being more of a like Baldwin and Gary Glenn Ross. And he said, if that guy enters with that energy

[02:12:46] at this point in the film, the audience is going to hate him. Hate him, hate Nick for associating with him. He's going to be so unsavory. And that's exactly the stereotypical. Right. That's the easiest way for that character to come across. And weirdly it's like,

[02:13:00] what we're talking about all the sort of like wet paper, a decent good man, sort of boring guy roles that Perry will put in his own films and play himself. Right. Or the foundation for him in this, where it's like there is that weird fundamental

[02:13:15] just kind of like gentle decency of Tyler Perry and like the morality of him that comes across where Alex cross, where. Don't cross him. Right, you're never grossed out by this guy. Yeah. And it helps that it's like,

[02:13:29] you know by reputation he represents a lot of guilty people. You know at this point in the movie that Nick is innocent. Right. You want him to kind of like be like, we're fighting on the right side here.

[02:13:40] Right, and also there is kind of this moment of like, okay, Nick, you need a lawyer. Like you can't just keep like hanging out with Kim Dickens and being like, yeah, I don't know what's up. You know, which is what he's been doing.

[02:13:49] And the thing that is astonishing is the authority with which Tyler Perry delivers everything. Such a quiet, like unforced authority in all these scenes where he's like, here's exactly what you need to do. And when he says something, you're like, I absolutely believe this guy.

[02:14:06] I would follow every instruction he gives me. Definitely, yes, definitely. And then the crucial moment later in the film where Affleck's like, I can handle this interview. Yes, I'm zagging. And then Nick and Affleck are like, they're like, we're not locked in with each other

[02:14:20] where he's like, okay, all right. I think, you know. Yeah, I mean, and it's just, it is such a good, like, because I think the thing about Tyler Perry is he's a brand too, like he is a brand too. And so is this character.

[02:14:32] And you sort of get the idea that like he knows what it's like to sell, you know? And that I think is part of it. The thing Nick has been missing this whole movie is the consistency of what he's been dealing with. Yes.

[02:14:48] Tyler Perry has excelled at in his life. Sincerity, yes. Yeah, but also just like consistency of message, right? Like consistency of brand. And selling yourself, yeah. Absolutely. And maybe we should have a TenorBalt Daredevil crossover. TenorBalt's like defending someone in the inner city, maybe, and Daredevil's there too.

[02:15:07] I just want him doing shit like this. I do too, but also if this is it, what a thing. Yeah. This guy was a mogul and like one of the most successful like comedy, you know, he made movies every year.

[02:15:21] It was a whole other thing and he just parachuted into this film and crushed it. It's why you wish he had gotten the Oscar nomination though because it would have been a nice like, like Dexter Gordon, Mikhail Baryshnikov. Yeah, right, like hey, by the way, right,

[02:15:34] good job coming in and killing it. Even if this isn't your main thing you want to do, you can play with the big boys. Look, he's great. At this point, we're sort of cutting between him being like, okay, let me meet Margo, let me go to the houses,

[02:15:51] or let's try and figure this out and everything unraveling for Amy with Lola and Boyd. Lola drinking Mountain Dew in a glass full of ice, just sitting in the lazy boy chair with the bottle and the cup and the ice. And what I think is probably like,

[02:16:09] which is a makeup choice to have her have this giant cold sore. Yes. Which is so good. Fincher casting the British American daughter of a musician who went to like eight of the fanciest schools and barred and all that and being like, you're gonna make sense

[02:16:26] as like a real piece of shit girl who robs people in New York. Someone like 10 years older would have auditioned for Amy. Right, right, yeah, sure, sure, sure. And it like totally works. Yes, it's so fun. I mean, that's the one thing in the commentary

[02:16:40] where the one person where he's like, this is me casting someone who could not be farther from this character. Right, right. Which I usually don't try to do. I love that she spits. I love that she spits in her Mountain Dew. Yeah. It's such a weird power move,

[02:16:52] but it makes sense for the character. I really do believe her when she's kind of like, by the way, this could have been worse. Like we're just hitting you and taking your stuff. Like other people are worse. Yeah. Anyway, see you later, we really need the money.

[02:17:03] And I'm sort of there going off and I'm like, I hope they buy some great drugs or whatever it is they're gonna do. It's a really good math. Them stealing her money like- Maybe like a jet ski for no good reason. Alters Amy's course, right? Yes.

[02:17:16] I do think the fact that like, what's Lola's character's name? Lola's character's name of course, we all know it as Greta. This is like the first person in her life who's ever just talked to her like a person. Like there's something to how unimpressed she is

[02:17:31] that like I think is the thing that like gives her a new lease on life of just like, oh, I can just sit on a couch with someone and eat junk food and not worry about how I come across. Yeah. And the fact that she's like,

[02:17:43] that this girl immediately pegs Amy as a bitch. Yeah, and it's cool, and likes it. Yeah, and liked it, which offends her in the reason for the spitting, but is also sort of like tantalizing. Yeah. But I do think it's like, you know what, Amy?

[02:18:00] You're really good at like faking everything in this meticulous way where you drew the diary. But you're actually not good at like improv faking it. You're kind of bad at it. Yeah, and so she's done. She has to go to Desi. Yes.

[02:18:14] Neil Patrick Harris, I want to say this about his casting. Fincher said he wanted a Clare Quilty type and he's like, what's a modern Clare Quilty type? He's watching the Tonys and he's like, this guy. This guy is like, Clare Quilty by the way of sting

[02:18:28] is how he puts it. His line in the commentary is, anyone who can make me watch the Tonys is a good performer. Right, yes, right. Jesus, Fincher, come on. Support American theater. As you said, yeah, Alex Cross, not Alex Ross, Perry. Alex Cross was the reason.

[02:18:45] Should we make Alex Cross Perry a series in which Alex Ross Perry bested him? I mean. No, I mean make like a film series. Yeah, that'd be good. Yeah. What were you gonna say, sorry. The thing I like about Tyler Perry is just like,

[02:18:57] if I knew who David Fincher really was in his body of work, I probably would have said no. I would have been too intimidated. I actually wasn't that familiar with his movies and my agent did know and probably knew that I would have said no.

[02:19:09] But instead, clearly the agent was just like, you really gotta do this. Like, you're really gonna crush this. And then he gets on set. And one thing that is probably really different from Fincher's directing style and Tyler Perry's directing style, I think Tyler Perry does half a take.

[02:19:23] I think they're setting up the next scene during the scene. And like his first scene, 30 takes. And he's like, what's going on? Like, this is crazy. Is the camera broken? The blood was draining from my face. Oh, no, no, this is it. He sits down and Affleck goes,

[02:19:42] by the way, minimum 30 takes. And Tyler's like, what are you talking about? And he's like, yeah, yeah, no, that's what it's gonna be. He says, I realized Fincher sees like no other person I've ever known. His vision is so hyper. When he's doing a take,

[02:19:56] he sees everything on screen all at once. He's like an alien. And if nothing, unless everything lines up perfectly, he's like, again. That's another thing, by the way, when you get to Tanner and Nick working together, you've got two directors.

[02:20:09] Fincher's hiring two people who have made their own films. It's a good point. Even if their movies are different styles. No, no, no, you're totally right. I would love to know more just about like Affleck and Perry chatting while they're waiting for Fincher to set.

[02:20:22] What those conversations are like. Okay, so the film, Medea's Tough Love. No, that's a straight to video. That's a cartoon, sorry. So it's Boo and Medea Halloween is Perry's first film in the Medeaverse. Okay, post Gone Girl. Gone Girl, do you think he maybe did

[02:20:38] like two or three takes on that one? Yeah. I learned something from David. Yeah, I don't know. It's just funny to think about him being like, I'm gonna bring some Fincherian technique into this one. Yeah. Anyway, all right. Final act of the movie, The Interview, Sela Ward.

[02:20:53] Come on. Great casting. Is it Sela or, is it Sela, right? Not Sela. I think it's Sela. I honestly don't know. Yeah. The most beautiful woman. But she has that kind of like. Scariest. Yeah, imperious like talk show beauty, right? Like she's perfectly cast.

[02:21:10] What was her ABC show called? Not Once and Again. Once and Again. She was amazing, that was a great show. Yes. Back when TV could just like have a show where it's like you're just gonna cry every fucking week. Yeah.

[02:21:21] Not much will happen and then there'll be a big hug. Weepy. Yeah, yeah. When ABC used to have their studios right on like the West Side Highway before Trump built 15 bad buildings covering it up, the main thing you used to see in the West Side Highway,

[02:21:35] which was otherwise pretty barren on that like stretch, was the ABC building and they always had like the entire side of the building was draped with whatever their new big show was. And I just remember a year of like,

[02:21:47] we lived downtown, I went to school in the upper West Side and my dad would like drive us to school every morning and I would just see the giant Sela Ward face. Sela! On the side of the ABC building and yes,

[02:21:57] there is something like kind of scary about her. Yeah, she's impressive looking. She has like an intense beauty. Just, you know, you believe it, she's fearsome. Like she could destroy him. Yes. I think the thing of cutting right to them in the car

[02:22:13] and Nick with like a piece of shit grin on his face. Yeah. That we don't see the interview till later but then like even Tanner's like, all right, relax, you were good, but relax. You know, is clever. Yes. Yeah. Just like lay low until it airs.

[02:22:26] She's eating the creme brulees. Yes, yes, out of the little ramekins. Well and like, Desi is so happy when she shows up and she's clearly in this like rough state, right? And she's in a rough state but she's also doing the performance. Of course.

[02:22:43] Like I don't know where to go. She looks very different than the last time he saw her and he's just like, finally I get her back but also I need to build her back into the version of Amy I fell in love with.

[02:22:52] And he's doing so much good subtle reaction work in this scene when they're watching the interview. He's like pouring more wine. His disgust at like the way she is scarfing down. Right there, the creme brulee. Yes and then she finishes his

[02:23:08] and you can just see him going like, okay, I gotta get her on a diet. You know like- Well he mentions like the gym when she's walking in. Like she's- He's so proud of his like perfect tone. What is the bed? Yeah, the best sleep of your life.

[02:23:20] I forget what the brand is but it's something like $30,000 bed probably or whatever and like his stupid fucking camera app. But it's just so revealing that he thinks of himself in his mind as like her one true love and he fucked it up or whatever, right?

[02:23:35] And she's throwing him bait with the whole like his, Nick's idea of high culture is football or whatever and he's like, you know, hand down his pants. But he is like fully in love with the construction of her. Because when she shows up- Another fake version of her.

[02:23:51] In a raw state, he's not like, oh, anything. Yeah, I mean he wants to imprison her in his weird fortress. Yeah and rebuild her to the way she was when he met her. And then the second he leaves her just like faking the,

[02:24:08] you know, like going to the camera and screaming. It's so scary. When the biting of his lip on the goodbye so that with the tussled shirt. Yeah, like it's just- So he has blood when he is walking out. You can see him like-

[02:24:20] The scuffed up hair, like just she's, I love her just figuring out like she knows her angles. She knows where the 10 cameras are. It's also like there is this time jump. Like the days gone are really interesting from once you start her angle.

[02:24:34] Because it's like when we first meet her, it's like it's closer in time, it's one day gone. And then by the time she is back to looking, because I actually had forgotten that and I was like, how did she lose all that?

[02:24:49] Wait, and it's like, it's been a month. You're a month in now. Yeah. Right, right, right. That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that. It's been a month from the interview basically too. Because I think it says like 29 days gone.

[02:24:59] It's only she cuts her hair the next day or whatever. Yeah, it's like it's been a month. She's gotten skinny again. There's two weeks basically of her like in captivity, rebuilding herself and planning. Then she has sex with him.

[02:25:13] And during the sex, she slashes his throat with a razor. Right, we call that sex. Well, first she also- What do you mean? I already said that, the screaming, the violating herself with a champagne bottle, anything else? I mean- No, I had forgotten.

[02:25:26] For some reason, the screaming is actually what disturbs me the most. Like the way she just like bids him goodbye and then runs and does the fake screaming like that. She's doing the- Yeah, so good. The wrist. The wrist thing.

[02:25:38] I didn't hear that you said the violating part. It's quite all right, I say a lot of bullshit. I said the screaming part. Oh yeah. This is relevant. Steven Soderbergh's liquor, yes. Which I love, I got really into in the pandemic. Good sipping liquor, he always says. Yes.

[02:25:56] But Fincher wanted to put it in the movie as a nod to his buddy Sodie and said, you can pick the scene where you want it applied. And Soderbergh said, I want it to be the thing she violates herself with. I didn't realize that's what it was.

[02:26:14] It's not, it's a bottle of champagne. No, it's not a champagne. It's a wine or whatever. But Rosamund Pike was- Sorry, a champagne bottle would be much worse to do that with. Yes, yes. Very true. Well, if you took the cork off, I suppose not.

[02:26:26] No, you can't take the cork off. It'd be funny if she said like, spraying a wall. It's very true, yes, of course. Yes, a bottle of champagne would not be workable. Fincher was gonna do that and Rosamund Pike was like, she would use wine. I'm sorry, I refuse.

[02:26:42] Right. He was gonna do the cigani? Yes. Wait, now I gotta see this bottle. It's a kind of wild looking bottle. The scene where, it's one of the scenes where Kim Dickens and Fugit come to Affleck's house and he's drinking. It's when he throws the glass.

[02:26:55] Yes, that's right. It's sort of a tall, thin bottle. He's drinking cigani then. So that's where they put it in the movie. But I just like this idea of like, yes, it's kind of a colorful bottle with this clear liquid. And Fincher presenting this to Rosamund Pike

[02:27:09] on set and her going like, absolutely not. Good for her. I have to maintain the integrity of this character. Yes. But yeah, no, she kills him with, you know, pretty crazy. Once again, this is called missionary position. I don't understand why you're making

[02:27:22] such a big deal out of this. What's your take on it? Well, it's funny too, because it's like, I thought about like the cut to blacks because they're so prominent early on. And suddenly he does this sort of flashing effect. Yeah. During the-

[02:27:35] And the music's going like, wow, like that. Like that's kind of crazy. It feels natural. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's wild. He cuts it so crazy. There's so much blood. There's so much blood. It's really great how much blood there is.

[02:27:48] I'd argue this is almost a point of no return for the character. For her? Yeah. Oh. What do you mean? Well, you know, I've really been on her side the entire film. I've liked everything she's done. Or at least you've understood her perspective. Yes.

[02:28:02] Yeah, and then when she, yeah. Joe Pera did a very funny Seth Meyers interview this week condoning or rather condemning murder. He just did a bit of wanting to very clearly establish his anti-murder stance. Joe Pera's special, which I don't know if you've watched. It's so funny.

[02:28:20] And he opens it with like a note that he writes and he says, hello, my name is Joe Pera. My favorite food is rolls, which is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. It's so good. I can't stop thinking about it.

[02:28:32] If you had him on the show, would the episode be nine hours long? Yes. The slowest episode. Right? I'd love to have him on the show, God. I mean, we could have him on. What kind of movies does he like?

[02:28:43] I feel like there's certain movies he jokes about a lot. Right. Like nature documentaries. Yeah. There's some weird movie reference point in the special I'm trying to remember now. There definitely is. He does this bit. What about like the straight story?

[02:28:56] You know, like something like that, you know, or like a movie about people who talk kind of slow. Here's a promise. What if we do Lynch? If we ever do Lynch. We'll ask him if he wants to do the straight story. Yes, yes. We can't guarantee him. No.

[02:29:09] He might be like, oh, I've never seen that one. He's not going to say that fast. Oh yeah, it's true. Sorry. I'm trying to rush this along. He does a bit in the special where he like chugs a bottles of water, crushing a beer.

[02:29:21] And it's not something he calls a lot of attention to, but it's just like at one moment he starts doing it and then the audience starts cheering and he's like, I'm going to take this all the way down. It's really funny. He's always been very, very funny.

[02:29:33] One of the funniest men alive. Yeah. Yeah. So Desi's dead. And then there's just 20 minutes left of the movie and it's all suddenly very rapid. Like her returning, swooning in his arms while he says you bitch, like you fucking bitch. Right, right.

[02:29:49] He said he, I mean just the incredible theatrics of her walking up looking like that. Right, running to him, him saying you bitch and immediately quote unquote fainting into a gone with the wind pose. That she just knows it's like, she's worked this whole thing out.

[02:30:06] The public relations side of it. I mean, the scene looks so good in this last, which you sort of mentioned is the, when after she's in the hospital, she's been treated and the FBI is there and Kim Dickens is like, wait, hold up, hold up, hold up.

[02:30:24] Tries to actually interrogate her. None of this is fitting. And basically everyone tells Kim Dickens to shut up and she's just like, God damn it. Like you can just. Because everyone else in the film is like, in that room is like, are you kidding?

[02:30:38] Look how gripping this is. Yeah. Like we want to follow this story. And Kim Dickens is like, wait, so you went there first? Why did you buy the gun? And then like, yeah. It's a story that would fall apart under a lot of scrutiny. Right.

[02:30:52] And you know, Amy knows there won't need to be much scrutiny. I'm back, there's no crime. And she's also doing the sort of like, I'm so faint. I feel myself fading. Yeah, I can't really remember everything. And we skipped over, but like they finally

[02:31:04] do arrest Affleck shortly before this. They do, yes. They find the weapon. The weapon is enough for them to arrest. He does the thing where like, he doesn't listen to Tyler Perry and he responds to the handwriting. Right. Yeah. You're not a handwriting expert.

[02:31:20] And then it's only after all that that she gets home with him. And he's like, what is going on? And she's like, you're doing great. Like, what are you talking about? I fucking love it. Hottest shit I've ever seen. Take off all your clothes.

[02:31:33] And he's like, I have one question. She's like, are you wearing a wire? Take off your clothes. It's like this trust is not reestablished. No, no, but it's so funny because she walks back in like, we like that was real. What happened between us?

[02:31:45] What you said to me through that interview. Yeah. You're not feeling what I'm feeling. Like it does feel like she's like. It's really great. They play it both so fucking funny. She's so turned on by the fact that like, oh, he's figured it out.

[02:31:59] And he's like throwing the ball back to me that she assumes that that's like love language from him rather than like him playing defensive. And him just like being like, I'm just trying to survive over here. Yes. Yes, I know I was reaching out to you.

[02:32:11] He was, he knows what he's doing. He says, do I have to convince America? Maybe I only need to convince one person. And right, 100%. But right, and she's like, so come wash the blood off with me in the shower

[02:32:24] and maybe I'll take a look at that fucking hammer you got. Yes, I sort of forgot about. And he is just like, no, I don't like you. I'm mad at you. Right. You've gone girl. I'm terrified. Also, yeah, you murdered the fucking next guy you saw.

[02:32:40] So I'm not exactly. You're still covered in his blood. You have blood on your boobs. That actually is unrealistic. No, I'm sorry, what were you saying? Surely at the hospital, she might've gotten cleaned up, right? It is weird that they're like,

[02:32:55] anyway, off home with you if you want to take a shower. It's very pivotal to the visuals of their marriage at this point. Yes. And she's just like, you don't understand, you did great. I want that Nick permanently from now on. He's like, I'm leaving.

[02:33:09] And then she impregnates herself. I buy that she doesn't wash the blood off when she's at the hospital or the police station or any of that shit because she's like, well, the press will still be there when we go home. Right, I need one more round of photos

[02:33:26] with covered in blood. They probably offered and she had some reason why she didn't want to do it yet. You know? And then just as pivotal as his last time, finally he gets a break, he goes to see Tanner

[02:33:40] and Tanner is like, you two are the most fucked up white people I've ever met. It's so incredible. You know, where she's like, come on, you know, goes like, can we get her on tape? He's like, no, he made me get in the shower. Like he's just laughing.

[02:33:51] And a line of dialogue. Kim Dickens is there and she's like, I agree with you guys by the way, this has been crazy. You know? A line of dialogue that hits pretty hard coming from Tyler Perry, the man who's directed some bug nuts stories.

[02:34:02] Like some just fucking lurid as shit, pulpy tales with insane plot twists. His films understand human behavior on a very natural level. That's what I'm saying. Well, not natural, but he does. He has the clearest eye on the human condition. I should check in.

[02:34:15] I haven't seen a Perry film in years. He's made so few. He mostly went to TV. That sounded like a joke. Recently. You're right, he doesn't really make movies anymore. He's made like two movies in the last five years

[02:34:25] as opposed to making five movies every year for 15 years. That man has maybe directed 25 films over? I can count, but you're gonna have to talk. But the final scenes of this movie. Okay, you go ahead. So yeah, she gets pregnant. He actually, you know, is physical with her.

[02:34:45] Yes. When she reveals this, he slams her against the wall. Yeah, but that is the sort of, but it is also the moment where she's sort of turned on by it. Like, it is this moment of violence and it is him actually enacting

[02:35:01] sort of what she had imagined. But that is what leads into the, I'm the cunt you married. Like, sorry, I just had to say cunt on Mike. We hadn't said cunt on Mike yet and it just like felt necessary. No, but like in the context of this.

[02:35:16] Yes, Jordan Hoffman. I think it's 24. Did you say Jordan Hoffman? Yes, it's a Jordan Melvin and Howard episode. Is that the one? Yes. He tells a story that involves someone yelling the word cunt over and over again and he screamed it in retelling the story.

[02:35:33] And it was when we still recorded at Audio Boom. And David's response was just, Jordan, we are in a workplace. There are people at desks. Remember we were at a workplace, Ben? Remember that? Your workplace. Your workplace. I do remember. Did you have to explain that to people?

[02:35:50] Like, you would be hard at work and then two idiots would roll into the office. And you'd be like, hey, time to do our podcast. I don't remember exactly anyone bringing up the fact that Jordan was screaming. I guess the room was soundproof. Yes, right.

[02:36:05] But I do remember very often when we would go on three hours of recording, people would be like, what is this show and why did it take that long? And I didn't usually have a good answer. Because their answer would be they talked about a movie.

[02:36:23] Why did everyone eat three meals during the course of this recording? And I'd be like, married to the mob. And they'd be like, what's that? Good times. It's so weird that this show is quite popular and yet also most of my friends are like,

[02:36:37] well, I don't understand what you're talking about when I've ever tried to listen to it. No. I mean, Bob has like, I'm always like, oh, you're gonna listen to my episode? He's like, that's too long. Yeah, too long.

[02:36:49] I like when I have to tell people what I do for a living, and they're like, oh, that's interesting. You're talking about a movie? And how long is the show? And I just go, it's long. And they go, so how long, like an hour?

[02:37:01] And I'm like, we are so... Keep going up. Ben, what time are we at now? We are at two hours and 43 minutes. Wow. This was another thing that people were so angry that the Zodiac episode was quote, only two and a half hours. What fucking golden hand-clicking

[02:37:22] golden handcuffs we have given ourselves. We're gonna work this down to a 90 minute show, I promise, 2024. Really, truly, whenever I can finally finalize the soundproofing, the space, we're gonna hang that goddamn clock. We haven't hung the clock. Countdown clock. We really are, I'm very proud.

[02:37:40] And it's gonna be, I think, a big change. And it's gonna go. This show's gonna get longer. My prediction is the show's gonna get longer when the clock's up. Yeah, so at the end of the movie, he's cradling her head, he's looking at her.

[02:37:53] It's the same shot from the beginning. And he says, what have we done to each other? Essentially. Well, you have the interview. Mr. Paul comes to their home, gives them the robot cat. And he makes the choice to announce the... Because you have the scene in the airport

[02:38:09] with Tyler Perry, with Kim Dickens, with Margot, where they're all like, you can't fucking go through with this, you lunatic. And he's like, what about the kid? What about the kid? Margot has that scene in the kitchen where she's like crying. Yeah, well, there's a flashback.

[02:38:20] It's sort of like a flashback. It's like a little bit of a flashback, I think, where he tells her and he's like, no, I have to raise this kid. Because he's basically, he's sort of like, his almost justification is like, well, I'm less fucked up than her.

[02:38:33] Right, right. It's dooming this kid to a worse life if I'm not... There. Right. But it's all, yeah, I mean, it's just... But you are like, is there any... In a movie with so many twists and moves,

[02:38:43] you're like, is there some way he gains his way out of this? You go to the interview and it's his move. And there's that moment where they're like, we're so happy together. And Rosenpike looks at him and like, and? And what else?

[02:38:56] And he makes the decision of like, I'm announcing on TV that we're having a baby, which is not just choosing to remain in that kid's life. It is choosing to publicly perpetuate the fantasy, the narrative of their... Right, everyone's now like in love with them as a couple.

[02:39:15] Because it's like, he's innocent. He's fully re-upping. She was missing. He thinks they're reunited. And he's like, I'm so happy now that we're having a baby. He's reinvesting in the charade, even if it's a new charade now. And what is marriage, if not reinvesting in charades,

[02:39:30] according to David Fincher? Which I do think is very funny. Like truly, what have we done to each other? And Fincher's like, roll the credits, get the fuck out of my theater. Yeah, goodbye. What do you think of that? And America's like, we like it. Yes.

[02:39:42] And everyone's like, rom-com. Right. Here's the thing I think we should bring up. Yes. It would be us, but you play it. Here's the thing I think we should bring up, because weirdly it's been an oversight in our episodes, but every movie from the game on of Fincher's

[02:40:02] is produced by his wife, Shawn Chafin, who is not a very public figure, like does not do a lot of interviews. She gets a lot of credit as the kind of like, you know, if the Coens kind of had this relationship, you know, where it's sort of like,

[02:40:15] yeah, they kind of just complete each other's sentences. Nolan and Emma Thomas, but Emma Thomas is much more out there. Certainly Snyder and his wife. Early career carpenter with Deborah Hill, you know? Like a lot of people we've covered where it's a key part of like,

[02:40:32] because I think somewhere I read a point out, it's interesting that not only does Fincher not have a single writing credit on any of his films, which makes him unique from any other director we've covered, but he also doesn't have a producer credit on any of his films,

[02:40:43] which most directors who get to this level. It's extra money. It's extra money and it's control and all of that. And it does feel like, as you said, a little bit of a like Coen thing where it's like, oh no, they're very collaborative on this.

[02:40:56] Like there's a symbiotic nature to the way the two of them build the movie. Exactly. She's the other side of a one headed or two headed one person, you know? I just find it very funny with this being his marriage movie where he's like making it like,

[02:41:10] and here's my take on marriage. And he has what seems to be from the outside an incredibly healthy, long lasting two decade plus creative and business relationship with his wife. Can I say an insane thing? Please. Like, it goes without saying that this is an unhealthy relationship.

[02:41:30] In Gone Girl. In Gone Girl. But there is this weird meeting in the middle sort of philosophy behind it about marriage where it's like you flip it and they're not two insane people and not two pieces of shit. And it's like, oh, these are two people

[02:41:48] meeting in the middle. Yes. And so there's this weird sort of like- Marriage is compromise. Yeah, marriage is compromise. Which I think is the bigger point of this movie, not like marriage is a sham. It's not quite as anti-marriage as you would think it is.

[02:42:02] It's more just like this heightened version of the compromise conversation. Yes, yes. And that's I think why it has a sort of like weird, like, oh, I, you know, a lot of people are like, I see Gone Girl as a rom-com. Like, and I think that's sort of-

[02:42:17] Some people say it's their comfort food movie. I mean, I think it is a comfort food movie. But like, I think that's why, you know, the rom-com thing, that's why it happens because it is two people who are meeting in the middle,

[02:42:29] which is like sort of what a lot of rom-coms are about. Yes, yeah. And I do think like that movie couldn't be made, this movie could not be made by someone who does not have a healthy marriage built on reasonable compromise.

[02:42:44] Like there's a soberness to what you're saying that I think is the movie's take on it, heightened to extreme circumstances that are unrealistic. But two psychos. Right. One more psycho than the other, and one just like a piece, one psycho, one piece of shit.

[02:43:01] They're both, they're both pretty wacky. They're both flawed people. I'm just gonna say that. But she has killed more people than him. Yes, one to zero is still- And she's a little bit more- It's a significant error. One's a rounding error. She's a little more maniacal.

[02:43:14] He's just a bumbling sort of fool. He's a dummy. She's maniacal. I wanna point out something, Eric Messerschmidt, who has now become Fincher's cinematographer, this film shot by Cronenweth, I believe, is the gaffer on this movie. He's in charge of Leighton. And Messerschmidt, you know,

[02:43:34] he shoots Mindhunter Mankin, the killer. He also is now the DP on Michael Mann's Ferrari. Oh. And when I interviewed Michael Mann, which I just did, You just did. I asked him about Messerschmidt. Mic drop. And he was like, you know why I like that guy?

[02:43:48] Because he was a gaffer. And to me, cinematography is all lighting and no one understands lighting anymore. And then he started talking about like the kinds of lights he used on Heat and I had an orgasm or whatever. You know, he was like talking about lights

[02:44:00] and I was like, I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm like going into a dream state. But I like that idea of Fincher, common for him. Yeah. Promoting from within, like he usually, Especially with DPs. Yeah. Did you interview Mann in person? I sure did.

[02:44:13] Where did he go? The Mandarin Oriental, of course. I mean, I didn't pick it. That's a classic interview spot. Yeah, I know, I know. Did you wear a black hat? No. Did you? Don't know that I own a black hat. David, did you order a mojito?

[02:44:29] Like one in the afternoon at the Mandarin. You just order it and then like, don't say anything. And I go like. Yeah. You're like, will you say it? Will you say it? I got mint all over my, no, I ordered a green tea

[02:44:43] and Michael Mann went, oh God, you're so close to mojito in a way. It's true, it's green. And Michael Mann got a chicken and corn and had a long conversation with the waiter over like, what is this? And the waiter was like, it's polenta, but also corn.

[02:44:56] And Mann was like, okay. And he ate it. It looked pretty good. Mandarin Oriental, for people who don't know, it's a very luxury hotel in like, it overlooks Central Park. It's this very like gorgeous vista. More like Michael Mann during the Oriental. That's a good point.

[02:45:09] And I should have said that to him. I literally just said that two seconds ago and everyone ignored me. Okay, credit to Esther. Well, we're talking about Michael Mann. So women should not be heard. Sorry. Well, I didn't say Michael Mann, I said Mandarin Oriental.

[02:45:20] Oh, you didn't hit it hard enough. I didn't hit it hard enough and everyone ignored me. No, I would never ignore you, Esther. But wait, oh yeah, Messerschmitt, right. I just like, you know, yeah, right. He's getting his work done on Gone Girl. Yeah.

[02:45:33] No, it remains bizarre to me for how big of a hit this movie was and how much it was critically well-regarded that it gets the one Oscar nomination and nothing else. The missing screenplay was surprising. The screenplay is the one that is galling.

[02:45:48] But even aside from the supporting noms that we all argued it should have gotten that I kind of get being overlooked. It's weird that it doesn't get cinematography or editing or score. I'd expect at least one of those. Well, there was a lot of really good movies

[02:46:03] that needed attention that year. Birdman, you know, American Sniper, The Imitation Game, The Theory of Everything. This is cinema! I gave the editing award to Birdman? That movie has no cuts in it. That movie is one honest take. That didn't get a, it didn't get a- It didn't?

[02:46:21] No. Oh, thank fucking God. The editing went to whiplash. Okay, that's a good point. Those noms are for American Sniper or whatever. You know, it's probably, you know, it's a well-constructed war movie. This is the year that- Boyhood. Budapest should have won. Budapest and then The Imitation Game,

[02:46:34] which is so well edited. Yeah. The Imitation Game and Theory of Everything being in the same year is incensive. I will tolerate one Miramaxian project for the Oscar year. Not two! Right, because one of those is like a sneaky focus or a searchlight or something.

[02:46:51] They both feel like they should be Weinstein. Imitation Game is Weinstein, obviously, because like Harvey was like- I think Theory is focus. Yes, Harvey was having like, you know, congressional hearings about how good Alan Turing was or whatever bullshit he would pull, right? Honor the man.

[02:47:05] Yeah, that's right, that's Turing. That's Imitation Game, Honor the Man. The Oscar will go to his grave. It's such a weird Oscar year. Foxcatcher doesn't get the best picture nom but does get the best director nom. Right, and two acting noms. There's stuff like that where you're like,

[02:47:19] that was made for the Oscars and they didn't even totally bite. Stuff like American Sniper kind of comes out of nowhere and then they kind of have to pay attention to it. And Gone Girl, like you said, is a big tittied hit. Well received. Thank you.

[02:47:34] And like much adventure, people are like, yeah, slick fun exercise. Can we call it a big hog tit? On this one we can. But also he's coming off like an Oscar heater. He is, he is, but Dragon Tattoo kind of got the same treatment. It got more noms.

[02:47:50] It got four more noms. It got more noms, but it's the same thing of like, yeah, well at the end of the day though, you're just a stylist, aren't you? Anyway, we're going to hand it to something really subtle like Birdman. It's too fun. Yes. Too trashy.

[02:48:02] Too trashy. Yeah, again, Birdman. And both of those are like based on, you know, sort of novels that are sort of dismissed as pulpy. Which is how he got big budgets to make them. Whereas Birdman was based on, what if there was a Birdman? Yeah. Birdman.

[02:48:19] Should I watch Birdman again? No, no. Yeah, this movie. More like what? I liked Birdman. I remember you liked it. You know, we filed out of Magno possibly together. Maybe not. No, I didn't know because I saw it at Lincoln Square Amnesty during a New York Film Festival.

[02:48:32] I saw it at Magno. The best place to see a movie. The terrible place to see a movie. This movie is a fat hogged hit. Yep. Feels like Finch is on a roll. You're like, great. He's fucking figured out his space within the studio system.

[02:48:45] Keep making these, Finchy. He's like, well. And then on the horizon of Mindhunter, yes, he works with Netflix. He does, you know, but on the horizon, there's a whisper, Hank. But that's also Netflix saying like. What do you want to make?

[02:49:01] Right, what's the thing that no one else will let you make? When he is in talks to do World War Z 2. What else will they not let you mank? They let him be mank in a way that no one had up until that point. Mank.

[02:49:13] When he's in talks to do. Ben, do you want to say mank? When he's in talks to do World War Z 2 pretty shortly after this, and the response from most people is, why the fuck would Fincher do a World War Z sequel?

[02:49:26] The answer was, he can't get shit made anymore. They won't make his Fincher movies. He needs to find a thing that's already in the pipeline that's closer to what he wants. And the system he had had of pick up a good bestselling book with adult themes

[02:49:41] and use that as your main story. And he's like, I'm not gonna do that. And use that as your way to Trojan horse in. It's like, you gotta find a $200 million franchise movie. You're not getting the green light. You motherfucker. You motherfucker.

[02:49:55] Or maybe a movie about like a Birdman or something. Let's do the box office game October 4th, October 3rd, 2014. You said it's a bad weekend. No, it's just a weird weekend. Gone Girl's opening number one to $37.5 million. Healthy. 167 domestic, 367 worldwide. I mean, that's a big fucking multiplier too.

[02:50:18] Hot Yom Kippur weekend. Yeah, it's the kind of multiplier you look down at twice in the shower. Number two. A length and girth. Exactly. Number two also opening this week made $37.1 million. Wow. Two movies opening to the same amount of money essentially. So it had to be counter-programming?

[02:50:36] Sort of, it's a horror film. It's in the horror space. Is it a sequel? No. It's an original horror film. Well, let's not go crazy. This character had appeared in another horror film and now she's getting her own runway. So this is the first Annabelle? Annabelle is here.

[02:50:53] She's sitting her way to the top of the box office charts. You won't believe the places this doll will be inexplicably found over the course of an hour and a half. This character's now appeared in four movies. Now Annabelle's opening to the same amount of money

[02:51:06] by the way, makes 84 domestic. To give you a sense of its lack of place. Gone Girl's double. Her legs, very stubby. She's got tiny little legs, she doesn't move. This is my point. I find it fascinating that Annabelle's such a horror icon and most people still don't realize

[02:51:19] the doll never comes to life. She's not a Chucky. She never Chuckies. The thing is always someone walks into her room and goes like, ah! And she's sitting on a chair. But what does she do? They have rung three movies out of that scare, my friend.

[02:51:32] Well, what is she? Fuck, how'd she get in the bathtub? Then like shit will go wrong. Other shit happens, bad shit happens. She never moves, she never talks. She literally just pops up sitting in different places and then like someone dies. But like Annabelle has no physical agency.

[02:51:52] Well, she's got box office agency, my friend. Ding, ding, ding! Is she a big ass hit? Yes. Number three, obviously she's in The Conjurer. I'm testing out some alternatives. I like big ass hit. It's just so funny that The Conjuring is like, here's a movie about the people

[02:52:07] who actually investigated the Amityville Heart and you're like, oh, is it about them going to Amityville? No. It's about them going to a different haunted house. Oh, okay, and Annabelle's part of that? No. That's another thing that happens in the movie briefly.

[02:52:20] Annabelle's like kind of the cold open. And you're like, oh, so is this movie a mess? No, it's tightly wound. It's beautifully constructed. Every performance is great. It's the best horror film of the decade. Kind of like deep modern studio horror. No, Annabelle's like the cold open

[02:52:35] that doesn't really go anywhere and it's this incredibly creepy looking doll, right? In real life, it was a fucking Raggedy Ann doll. It's just a Raggedy Ann and it's literally in a glass box and it's like, don't go near that fucking thing. Raggedy Ann doll.

[02:52:48] And they're like, that doll's got bad vibes. Truly. And then in- They made three movies! I believe we talk about this on an episode longer ago, but yes, it's so funny that they're like, should we just use a Raggedy Ann doll?

[02:53:00] No, it's gonna look like a melted candle. Like, what are you talking about? Anyway, number three at the box office, The Equalizer. Griffin, you watched it recently. It's a franchise starter. It's a franchise starter. Is it The Equalizer? The Equalizer! Ding, ding, ding. And in second week.

[02:53:18] My man. Pretty fun movie. It rules. Antoine Fuqua's The Equalizer. Yes, I love those films. I'm all in, I'm equal-pilled. Well, my big thing right now is, as I believe I've said online, The Equalizer 1 made $101 million domestically. The Equalizer 2 made $102 million domestically. Equalizer 3's at 91.

[02:53:40] I need it to get to 103. They need to do- Badly. A re-release with bonus material. They need something to juice it up. Denzel will give you a hug and a soda, I don't care. Get people in. They also, all three opened within one million of each other.

[02:53:56] It's opening weekend. Everything looked good. I mean, and it's done fine, but I just need it to get to 103. I need it. You haven't seen it yet, have you? I have not seen three. I've seen one and two. Well, you know what?

[02:54:06] It looks like you're the fucking troll. I kind of am. March your ass out to a theater. And buy a robe. Yes, buy the whole screening. Number four, have you seen The Equalizer, Esther? I've never seen The Equalizer. They're so good, Esther. It's quite fun. He equalizes people.

[02:54:22] The first half hour of the movie is him trying to equalize one of his coworkers by helping him lose weight. Well, this is what's nice. My parents love The Equalizer TV show. Well, that's true. Starring Queen Latifah. Oh, the new one? Yeah. There's also the old one.

[02:54:36] No, but they love the new one. I'm waiting for them to team up. Number four at the box office, animated film. And Robin McCall. A good animated film. It's a good animated film. In the year 2014. It made 50 domestic. Huh. A mild hit. It's not Kubo. No, but.

[02:54:53] It is a Laika? Yes. Is it box trolls? The box trolls. Good movie. Charming movie. Kind of scary. There's the guy who eats the cheese and his face sort of puffs up. Kind of crazy. Yeah, well, fucking Ben Kingsley in one of the all time great voice performances

[02:55:11] in any animated film. Is that Cheese Guy? Yes. He's the evil cheater guy. It's good. But I remember liking it. Number five at the box office. A franchise starter. YA. YA franchise starter. What genre? And you said YA, but YA masked up with. It's not Divergent. No.

[02:55:34] It's the first Maze Runner. The Maze Runner. They ran that maze. I'll never get out of the maze. Oh, in fact, there's a way out. The scorch trials await. Yes. And then the death cure. Your cure will be given to you. Yes, the Maze Runner.

[02:55:47] A very healthy hit. Yeah. 102 at the box office. Not a bad movie. Wes Ball, the director of action. Yeah. Yeah, I think Scorch is the best, but I think the first two are good and the third's a little disappointing because you were kind of like, hell yeah.

[02:56:00] You know, this is fun. Also the scorch. The scorch is the best one, obviously, when they scorched the hell out of them. He did the new Planet of the Apes. Which we will see next year, right? Yeah. Next, number six left behind, the Nicholas Cage Faith-based movie.

[02:56:16] That movie is bad, actually. What? Wait, what? Yes. It is not good. It's better than the fucking Kurt Cameron one, but it is not good. Number seven, this is where I leave you. I mean, isn't it a lot of Nick Cage in like a cockpit

[02:56:31] going like, what's going on? Yes. People are disappearing. Like, you know, it's a lot of that, right? Am I wrong in thinking that Chad Michael Murray is his co-pilot? That sounds about right. This is where I leave you. Is that the one where-

[02:56:42] That's the one where no one's Jewish. That's the one that I- Everyone in the film is Jewish. I bring up so often on this podcast. It's a Jewish family sitting shiva. You're correct. I know, it's James Fonda, Jason Bateman, Tina Fey. Corey Stahl, Adam Driver. Yeah.

[02:56:55] Are the kids. It was directed by Sean Levy though. Yes. You know, we're there. Our people are there. Absolutely. Yeah. Number eight, we all were waiting for it and finally we got it. The most anticipated sequel of 2014, Dolphin Tale 2. Oh wow. Flip flip.

[02:57:09] Number nine of the box office, a pretty enjoyable film from a sort of forgotten franchise, Guardians of the Galaxy. Mm. Wow, that was August, right? Wow. Good movie! David, we were working together when Guardians came out. Yes. Because Courtney would only let you go see it.

[02:57:25] We were so mad that I was the only person allowed to see it. I remember very well. What, in terms of the screen or in terms of letting you leave work? I got in, no, I got invited and Esther didn't and Esther was talking about it.

[02:57:35] And they said only one person from the Atlantic Wire could come. That's fucking rude. There was often a lot of. You should have gone girl, to her. A lot of, look, I love you Courtney if you're listening. Never, never be mad at me.

[02:57:48] Number 10 of the box office, No Good Deed? What's that, oh that's the ghostly Ms. Robert Durst? Idris Elba. Oh no, that's Idris Elba. Idris Elba and Taraji. What's ghostly Ms. Robert Durst? That's called All Good Things. Okay, all right. It's the opposite. Give me a break.

[02:58:04] That movie's all about good things. Yeah, No Good Deed is Idris and Taraji and he's the bad, he's the ex-husband from hell or Right. Something. But that was like kind of quietly fucking robust hit. Yeah, it made 52. Yeah. Counted okay.

[02:58:19] Is he her husband or is he just like the guy who broke out of jail from hell? I think he's the ex from hell. Yeah, it's the parolee, you know, whatever. I should watch it. Sam Miller directed it. He's a Luther guy. Okay. Yeah, he does TV. Okay.

[02:58:36] Luther. Luther. Luther. Gone Girl. Esther, any final thoughts? Great movie. Five stars. Just, even I was guilty of it. When I saw it, I was like this rocks. But I probably like, you know, took a minute for me to be

[02:58:52] like, I should stop by having any caveats about it as like trashy or fun or something. Like this is one of the great films of the year. I was all in. I was like banging the drum. I was all in, I was so excited. Yeah, top tier entertainment.

[02:59:03] It's such a weird year. Yeah. Do you like it? I love it, it's one of my favorites. Ben? Love it. Yeah, pro? Big time. You haven't said much in this episode. You got any hot takes? Yeah, I'm sorry Ben. That's okay.

[02:59:14] I think this is a great beach house movie. Right, you rent a beach house. Fucking finest man's credit card. And they always got kind of like a couple of random. That's something we needed to get out of. Anytime you throw the ball to him.

[02:59:28] There's a couple of random DVDs and this feels like a quintessential. So true. Yeah, you're excited that they have this one in their collection. You're like, of course they do. Cause everyone likes Gone Girl, let's watch it. And you're like, and this is the exact mood

[02:59:39] I'm in right now. Yeah, it's like, oh shit. It's a rainy day. Can't go to the beach. What should I do? Ben's so smart. But next week is the even better beach house movie everyone can agree on, Mank. Mank. Yeah. Get to the beach house, everyone's like,

[02:59:53] what should we watch? Don't worry guys. And I pulled Mank out. I know there's no physical copy of Mank available. Yeah. Or I'm scrolling on Netflix and I'm like, hang on, who's that over there? Is that? Is that Mank? Who do I spy with my little eye?

[03:00:08] And then somebody in the corner goes, ah, nurse. Do I smell alcohol and regret? When you select Mank on Netflix. It should go, Mank. No, before the movie plays. No, it should go, nurse. It should go, nurse. Before the movie plays,

[03:00:24] you should be like pushing the button and no effect. And then you should just hear Gary Oldman go like, just give me a second. Give me. I gotta finish up this drink, yeah. Absolutely. So. It should take 45 minutes for Mank to start playing.

[03:00:42] Yeah, I think we just did. All these fucking episodes are three hours. Esther, thank you for being here. I almost felt the need to apologize for the Zodiac episode before. You did! I was like, guys, I'm really sorry. All the other ones are three hours. You did apologize.

[03:00:57] I know. What's the matter with me? You should not have done that. Do you know what happened? Okay, I have to say this office just makes you feel crazy. Yes, it does. The lack of windows. I feel insane. Yes, it does. It's that I quit Twitter.

[03:01:10] In a good way. Yeah. It's that I quit Twitter. Oh, so now you're on the Reddit more? I think it's making me look at other apps more. And so now, so maybe I gotta quit Reddit. Maybe it's just that, you know, I keep quitting. My friend, this is-

[03:01:21] I'm like all in on like, you know, playing one of those games where you gotta rescue the king from the burning house. Disney Mochi Blitz, it's right there. It's the key to a balanced brain. I fucking failed to get Long John from the Treasure Planet event. It's annoying.

[03:01:35] It'll probably be a year before he comes around again in a diamond box. It sucks. Next week, Manc. Esther, thank you. Esther, Manc you. Manc, thank you very much, Esther. You would've been great on Manc, but our guest for that one is Sean Fantasy. Yes.

[03:01:49] America's number one Manc defender. Absolutely. I am also a Manc defender. We know the truth. Sounds like you maybe should've taken my seat on the episode. You're not? You're not a Manc defender? You're mid on Manc. Yeah. You're not a hater, but you're pretty mid on Manc.

[03:02:03] I'm pretty mid on Manc, yeah. Manc. Yeah, I was trying to like- Mid on Manc, pro saying Manc. I love saying Manc. Saying Manc is one of the best things on the planet. But tune in for that next week. Esther, anything you wanna plug?

[03:02:19] I'll have a book coming out. I have a book that's available. It's called Beyond the Best Dressed. You can get it at the Academy Museum, if you're so inclined or from anywhere else, but that's pretty cool. What's your main qualification in being asked

[03:02:33] to be part of the Congratulations New York Fashion Week runway show? Right, which was a true honor and genuinely. And I will have another book coming out next year on Rom-Com. Hell yeah. You're gonna have to have me back on.

[03:02:50] Yeah, I'm gonna have to have you back on, uh oh. Okay, uh oh. Too bad. Bye. Bye. Thank you all for listening. We should. What Ben? Very quickly at the end here. What? I'll say the link to get Esther's book will be in the description. Thank you.

[03:03:05] We also though should mention that we are going to in fact release a Mindhunter episode. Oh it's happening? It is indeed happening. I just got confirmation from Wall Street. This is new information. I just got confirmation from one. This is news to me! News to me as well.

[03:03:20] Marie, party, party, party. Okay, so should we just say this? David and I really didn't want to do this episode. No! We just, I think you all know it. We don't like covering TV. It's a pain in the ass. I love Mindhunter. Yes. I'm a fan of that.

[03:03:35] Right. But covering TV within our format is incredibly annoying and the work just like multiplies exponentially and then it's hard to cover within an episode and people get even angrier than usual about us not mentioning certain things, which is just impossible with the volume of TV.

[03:03:53] And with Mindhunter, it's like two full seasons. Most of the TV we've ever done has been one season or a limited series. This is two full seasons. It's a lot of episodes and he didn't direct all of them and we were just fucking feeling very frustrated

[03:04:05] figuring out any reasonable way to cover it. I also was deep in watching eight million lawyer movies for a big picture draft episode and I did not want to take on also trying to get through two seasons of Mindhunter. So Marie is going to do the episode. Yes.

[03:04:22] So all I can really share as far as details is that we will be putting out at least one, if not one of some, you know, many more, right? Again, I'm trying to be somewhat vague here. But expect on our Patreon, November 16th,

[03:04:43] we will have a Mindhunter episode featuring Marie, myself, potentially some guests. This is again sort of a thing. News to us. Yeah, this is a thing that all sort of just came together. And it's going to publish off cycle. Like literally it's just going to publish,

[03:04:57] going to publish. You'll get an extra value this month. You'll get it exactly. It'll come out on a Thursday, sort of five days after our Empty Man episode. That's the thing. David and I didn't want to do it. We wanted to do Empty Man instead

[03:05:11] of just prior getting a cash, a little bit of the Fincher check. Yeah. And Marie got angry at the notion of us skipping Mindhunter as I think most of our listeners would have gotten if we didn't do it. So we said, if you want to do it,

[03:05:22] by all means, we give you the space to make an episode or perhaps even more. But that's good announcement. Good. Good. Okay. All right. Now do your thing. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty,

[03:05:37] host of the upcoming Mindhunter episode for our social media and helping to produce the show. Thank you to Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our artwork, Lane Montgomery in The Great American Novel for our theme song, AJ McKee and Alex Barron for our editing,

[03:05:51] JJ Birch for our research. I'm glad he mentioned that Ben Affleck shows Hog in the movie. I would have missed it if he hadn't put it in the dossier. Tune in next week for Manc with Sean Fennessy. You can go to BlankCheckPod.com

[03:06:03] for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, where you can hear the aforementioned Empty Man and Mindhunter episodes coming up. And as always, Gone Girl's a fat hog tit. Could I get one more time?

[03:06:21] Because it sounded like you said fat hog tit. Great. Okay. I'll give you one more if you keep in. Gone Girl is a fat hogged hit. Great. Perfect. Perfect.