Green Card with Esther Zuckerman

[00:00:21] The story of two friends who got a podcast, did bits, and then fell in love. So true. Now this movie does have a perfect tagline. It's a really great tagline. Do you know the tagline? No. I'm gonna read it. Was that it? That was a riff. That was a little bit of a riff. It's the story of two friends who got married. No, two friends. Because we're the tagline. Yeah, no, obviously. That's competitive advantage. Two people? The story of two people who got married, met, and then fell in love. Yeah. It's good.

[00:00:51] That's how the fucking film industry used to work. If you could walk into a room and say, a matter of the poster... I will say, the poster does look like Obelix is kidnapping a woman. David, I like this movie a tremendous amount. I had never seen it before. Look at him! I know this is a favorite of yours. She is mine! This is a thing we're gonna have to keep talking about in this movie. Where this movie is super charming and sweet and exquisitely made. It really is.

[00:01:18] And yet, it is all this study of, what is the weird charm of this guy? Totally. And part of it is, this guy is, why no Shrek? Is he an emotional terrorist? You know, like... I thought you were gonna do something like... I wanted you to do something like in a French accent. Like, I am a beast. Or the beast will come out. Right. Or something like that. Right. This movie is trying to present Gerard Depardieu as, like, the Walt Disney version of the beast.

[00:01:48] Who's not actually that bad of a guy. But obviously has this kind of, like, rough, oafish personality. And then you're just like... You know, it's really close to, like, just... We took all the bad things out of Gerard Depardieu and left the baseline. I mean, I'm sure... Gerard Depardieu was hot and sexy, guys. I hate to, you know, I hate to break it. I do not get it. And I think we will discuss that I... But it was not like a... No, I know it's not like a... A shocking proposition in 1990.

[00:02:18] This is the thing. Times change. Or do they? Well, yes, but also... I think times change for Gerard Depardieu. This was the real project. This was the... Do we get... How do we make Americans get Depardieu? Right. And I think this is the one time that Americans really got him. Yeah. I guess so. As like a romantic lead? Yeah. I mean... I think the other stuff in a part of the hero... Not in a... Yeah. Oh, God. 1492. Right. Like his other stuff later.

[00:02:47] But like, didn't Americans... It was the same year, but like, didn't Americans get him even though in Cyrano? Yeah. That was the... Which is like obviously a French film, but... But gets him an Oscar nomination. Yeah. That was just a huge crossover hit. Right. Yeah. But like, here's this guy who's in his third decade of being a movie star in France. Yeah. Yeah. And had worked with Bertolucci, had sort of like touched the membrane of Hollywood... Yeah. ...without fully crossing over. I mean, he was a French actor.

[00:03:16] That was the most crossing over international films that existed. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And he was in like the last... We'll talk about it. And in the 90s, there was this push of like, are you ready to meet France's Robert De Niro? I've got that baguette for you. Well, he got a fucking handjob next to Robert De Niro. I know. In the movie. He said, you know what you should try is B&M. I wish there was a French Fockers trilogy with Deb Perdue. There must be something approximating that. Exactly. That sounds like...

[00:03:46] He made so many comedies. He makes so many movies. Right? Like he made a bunch of silly... Like he probably did something... Also, French comedies, as I know, I don't want to offend someone who is French. My mother is French, yes. Yeah. Or isn't it always like, oh, my daughter, she married an immigrant. Oh, Sacrebleu! Right? Like it's like a lot of that. A lot of that.

[00:04:12] Let's also acknowledge that Deb Perdue's breakout was in the movie Going Places, which is basically just about a fucking contest. I'm sure a bunch of French listeners are going to explain how I'm not paying proper respects to Going Places. No, I don't think so. Going Places, you know what in French it's called? Like, you know, that was the American title for Going Places. And then we'll introduce our podcast. In French, it's called Les Values, which means the balls. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like...

[00:04:41] It's like slang for the balls, but like that's what it means. That's what it means. Every year at Cannes, I've been going for three years now, and every year there's some movie that sort of pops up that's like the French pick. And it's like often there's like a French comedy and you're like, oh, wow, this is just playing so much differently here than it would in... You see the French response. Yeah. Well, you're like, there's French comedies that are like based on very retrograde cultural

[00:05:10] socioeconomic racial stereotypes. Right. And then regional stereotypes as well. Bonvenue, Le Chutie, which is like the biggest French comedy of all time. I think it has not been beaten since. Um, but then there's like you, you will go to France and there will be giant billboards for a movie that is just like four firmly middle-aged actors wearing like suits and dresses, making faces. And you're like, what's that?

[00:05:39] And it's like, it's been number one, five weeks in a row. It's called like, you know, the fucking fart family. And it's just about them all walking into walls and stuff. No, no, it's like, it's called about like, uh, uh, uh, uh, you know? Right, exactly. And you're like, what's it about? And you're like, um, it's kind of just about like two couples have a dinner. Right. But then it finds out that they've all slept with each other. There's a lot of puns, but there, you wouldn't understand because it's French puns. And so, you know, there's a lot of, you know, double meanings to the words. But some of them are like these kind of classical, almost like stagey French farces.

[00:06:09] Just four characters. They haven't really gotten over that. No. I remember when I lived in Paris, uh, there was a movie, uh, called Paris, made in 2008, starring Juliette Binoche, that I believe was sort of like the, you know, Valentine's Day or New Year's Eve of like French movies, because it was like a big ensemble movie with a bunch of stars that was just called Paris. And the only thing about it was that it was set in Paris. Oh yeah. That's a good movie. Is it? Is it? Have you seen it?

[00:06:39] Yes. Correct. Yeah. I've seen it. Yeah. And I remember when I was just like looking at that, I was like, is this like the biggest French movie ever? It's just called Paris. Is this the biggest French movie of all time or is everyone in Paris? What if we had like New York? Right. Right. Because there was Perry and Don Perry were around the same time and Don Perry is much better. Don Perry is Louis Garel and, um, Romain D'Arise. Yeah. That one's fun. That's about like some, some, you know, shaggy boys, right? It's about depression. It's about two brothers. There's that movie rules.

[00:07:08] And then Perry, I'm trying to remember, but I have seen as well. Yeah. It's got a huge cast. Yeah. A lot of Frenchies. Romain D'Arise is in that one too. Yeah. What's he up to these days? Yeah. I realized cause he's so good in all the money in the world. Oh yeah. That's right. He's excellent. Sort of a movie. I forgot. And I was like, yeah, he doesn't do enough like American films. And I looked and I think that's literally the only one. Yeah. I guess it's just not. Well, you know what? He was the French voice.

[00:07:35] This is so fun when you learn this of the Edward Norton character in Isle of Dogs. I'll tell you that much. There we go. Uh, yeah. But he does a lot of, oh man. And he did a movie called Eiffel about Gustave Eiffel, like a biopic. Okay. Where you're like, that doesn't even make it to America. No. But in France, they're like, please enjoy it. He was also in that really big Three Musketeers. They told him he could not make The Tower. Yeah. He's a great actor. I think he's one of the best movie actors working. And he's a babe. Yeah. But it's just interesting. And he's got a hanger. I've seen it.

[00:08:04] He does. In like 50 movies. But I even feel like his biggest French movies haven't crossed over super wide here. Not since like Beat That My Heart skipped, you know, but in those early days, he was having some. Yeah. Yeah. What can you do? He's French. I'm sure it was he in Die Person or whatever it's called. You know, is he in Call My Agent ever? Yeah. It just felt like Depardieu was the one male French star. They really tried to make work.

[00:08:32] There's a history of here's the most beautiful woman in France. Sure. And we try to make her convert. And that usually does work, but for a period of time. You know, you have your Sophie Marceau. You have your Isabella Gianni. You know, I'm sure certainly Bardot. And like Marion Coutillard has probably had a better, more sustained, fully French and American career. Laissez-due. Laissez-due. Yep. I mean, you're forgetting the queen, the number one.

[00:09:02] Juliette. No. No. Binoche. Binoche. The whole thing with Juliette Binoche is anytime you see her in a movie, you're like, this is the best movie I've ever seen in my life. I had this experience recently. Also, mothers around the country were captivated by Chocolat. Yes. Well, that's true. And you wanted a bite? Love her. Yeah, of course. Right. You just named her one. The French actors who've crossed over, it is an interesting list because I'm thinking of like Vincent Cassell, right? Yeah.

[00:09:32] Where it's like he crossed over, but in America mostly he plays the weasel. I was gonna say, with the men, it's usually kind of that where you're like, it's a little Mads Mikkelsen. Jean Reno, he plays the living cigarette? But the Mads Mikkelsen effect where you're like, Hollywood has accepted this guy doing one kind of thing. Yeah, maybe two. Garel has sort of had a little. But in New York. No, if Garel shows up again, you're just like, who's this molester? Right.

[00:09:57] I know in Little Women, he has the, but you know, that's sort of a tankless role. Right. Sort of exception to the role. There was one French actor who accepted an Oscar with pleasure. And what was his name? Jean Duvardin. Jean Duvardin. Jean Duvardin. Oh my God. Jean Duvardin. Duvardin. Jesus. Jean Duvardin. Who did he beat for best actor, Garel? George Clooney. I guess he just recently won. Brad Pitt. Yeah. Right. For Moneyball. He beats.

[00:10:27] I just like, I recently watched his like win. And the other four guys were like, hmm, heavy hitters. One of them is Demian Bashir, who's a great actor. In our buddy's film. In our friend Chris's film. And there's the other one, Gary Oldman Tinker Tailor. Yeah. Pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah. That's my example of like, we've talked about it too many times. But Jean Duvardin, a name I know how to say, wins best actor. And you're like, you know what?

[00:10:55] This is kind of a little ready made for Hollywood. He's making it easy for them to cast him. He's weird cartoon version of a Frenchman. But on the other hand, it's weird that he has an Oscar and a bunch of the guys we just mentioned don't. Absolutely. And he basically does not do any American productions anymore. But also he doesn't speak in the movie. He doesn't. And he did Monuments Men, right? He's more bilingual now than he was when he was doing the Oscar campaign. Also that movie like doesn't exist.

[00:11:24] It truly is a memory hold film. But he has this small collection of like, I'll do a two scene role in Wolf of Wall Street. I'll do a couple scenes in Monuments Men. And I feel like there's one other film in that period where it was like a supporting ensemble role. And then he has not made any sort of American film in over ten years. Yeah, I think those might be the only two. He's made plenty of other films. He works steadily in France. He's their- He's a big star. Biggest star. Yeah. He's a big star, certainly.

[00:11:54] And he did another OSS 117 finally. Right. Yeah. And he did Zorro recently. Did you know that? Yes, I did. A French Zorro. Yes. Jean Dujardin. Yes. He's like Chris Pratt. He's stealing all the characters. He was already Lucky Luke. He of course originated Brice Dunice. What's that? Brice Dunice. What's that? He's a surfer from Nice. Oh, that guy sounds silly. That was kind of his Wayne's world that broke him out.

[00:12:23] Is that like their version of like a kind of right like a Venice Beach kind of dude? Like I am from Nice. This is the Dujardin. I have tan. My sunglasses though, so it's white around my eyes. Any time I would go to Paris and there'd be a poster for a big comedy film and I'd ask someone, what is this? They'd be like, it's a very specific type of person who lives there. I mean, that was as a child. I mean, that was as a child.

[00:12:51] I was obsessed with Asterix books as I've talked about, I'm sure before. And those are all about ethnic stereotypes, mostly of internal French ones where I would be like, I don't get the joke. And my dad would be like, people are from Bordeaux or like that. And I'm like, they are. And he's like, I think so. I think that's the joke. And I'm like, okay. Like, Bonvenue Le Chutti is like big businessman has to move to small town to like take care of the operations there.

[00:13:16] And 90% of the jokes in that movie are the people in this small town say SH at the end of every word. And it performs like Avatar. Are French people going to be mad at this episode? Probably. What are they not mad about? Probably. Ah, yeah. I lived in your great country. It was nice. But it is, it is an example of like, right, Deppardieu, if American audiences had familiarity with him, it was like, here's this big like fucking burly man who's doing historical epics

[00:13:46] and intensity and playing the great characters. And they're like, but in France, we find him charming. Would you believe in France, he's something we wish to kiss you. Mwah! He's what we call a kiss-wisher. What's our podcast called? Our podcast is called blank check, avec Griffin et David. Check blank. Je suis Griffin. Je suis David. I'm giving up the French.

[00:14:14] This is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have- Directors. Directors. Who have massive success. Realisateur. Realisateur. Realisateur. Cinema. This is the worst episode we've ever done. This is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

[00:14:38] And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes those checks get interviewed by the immigration agencies. By Neelix from Star Trek Voyager. Baby. Yes. E.T. Phillips. Today we are talking about a motion picture called Green Card. Mm-hmm. It is written, directed, and produced by Peter Weir. Uh, yep. Correct. I believe it's got a big hunkin' fuckin' final opening credit card. Yep, written directed produced. It's a flex. You're right.

[00:15:04] And this is kind of his first, in a way, this is his first American blank check. Uh, yeah. He basically says that he took Witness to figure out how to break through to Hollywood, that this was the dream, his passion project at this moment that he really wanted to make, and the success of Witness granted him, and certainly Dead Poets as well, granted him the freedom to make this.

[00:15:30] It's just so funny if you look at his career, as we will discuss, you don't really see a I've just been waiting to make green card in there. And yet you read that was- That he's like, exactly how he feels. Right, yes. He's like, I really liked this script and I wanted to make it. Which I think is correct, because it's a great film. But he's just taken like two assignment jobs. Mosquito Coast and Dead Poets Society, Griff, uh, start to be clear. Well and Witnessed, so really three. Yeah, he's taken three assignment jobs, and he's like, have I proved myself enough

[00:15:59] that at a lower budget, with my casting choices, you let me make the one I want to make? And you're right that it is funny because, and so often in these cases, you're like, now can you let me make the ambitious thing with the scary budget that you wouldn't grant me unless I proved myself in other arenas? And he's like, no, I want to make like a pretty contained- Right, pretty cheap. 20 million dollar, I have to imagine, 20?

[00:16:24] Uh, the budget is listed at 12.5 million dollars. Okay, so is that USD or Francs? USD. I had to ask, I had to ask. Our guest today returned to the show. To talk about this rom-com, and we can discuss the balance of rom versus com in this movie. Which I think is an interesting starting point for conversation. Okay. The great Esther Zuckerman. Hello. Something of an expert on the subject. Yes.

[00:16:55] Though I have never seen this movie. Neither did I. Uh huh. Uh huh. You guys are crazy. We're not? We're gonna do the wide weekend, I think. Okay. Just FYI. I'm just inspecting the box office choices here. Okay, so just establish that tab and then place it two hours from now. Yeah, sure. Esther, you wrote a book on rom-coms. I did. Is it now available on paperback? No, it's never gonna be available. It's never gonna be available on paperback. It is a gift book. Yeah, it is. It's more like a little hardback. It is for... Yeah.

[00:17:25] But... Yeah, you can still buy it. It's still available. And one should. Yes. But did not watch Green Card. No, it didn't really come up in my research. Like I... Because I did try to like fill in a lot of like blind spots. And somehow Green Card never came up. Well... It's a great film that I was introduced to at a young age by my mother because it's a great New York rom-com. But I do feel like it's not part of any particular movement. No.

[00:17:52] Or like sort of star narrative or anything like that. And certainly it's by a director who never made a rom-com again. Yeah. So it wasn't like... It was Oscar nominated. It was a solid hit. Like yada yada. You know, like it's not like it was a forgotten movie. That's the wildest thing. But it is sort of forgotten now. I think it is. Well, that's crazy. I think it is. I mean, it's interesting. I was... I'm right here. That's what we're here to do. No, David is... And you are sort of carrying the torch, I feel like, for this movie. I love this movie. My mom showed me this movie when I was a kid. This is just like a Sims family classic.

[00:18:22] But I was like, for instance, I was at a... I was watching the Super Bowl with some friends. Some very film-oriented friends. Okay. Our friend Rob was there. Rob was there. Allison was there. Spike, Marty, Francis. I mean, and now... Our friend Rob is someone who has seen literally everything. The great Rob Shearer. Rob Shearer. I mean, God bless Rob, who is our friend. He is, you know, certified. Psychotic. Yeah.

[00:18:50] He goes to see movies where I'm like, I've never heard of this. He's like, well, let's do one show time at like the Regal S6 at 11 a.m. Yeah. He's like movie-going Pac-Man. Yeah. He is like the king of Cinematrix. Like he sends me his grids every day and I'm like, are you cheating? And he's like not cheating. He just has like an insane memory. And he had not seen it. And Allison had not seen it. And, you know, I think it is sort of memory hold a little bit. I agree.

[00:19:17] I think David's a little right that it might have to do with the fact that this basically becomes just like a blip in the 90s, Annie McDowell kind of arc. But it's before. There's so many. That's the thing about... That's what's crazy. Like, which I honestly didn't even like really clock. It's before her rom-com arc. It is after... We're gonna put a pin in this. Yeah. But I agree with you. That's what I think is fascinating. And I just want to be able to fully zoom out and talk about the Annie McDowell thing.

[00:19:44] The Depardieu thing is so much what's selling this movie of like, we're trying to make you like this guy, which worked at the time. But then because it did not last, that also feels like a weird dead end. And then as you said, David, like, we didn't make a movie before this with this kind of vibe. Never made a film after this with this kind of vibe. Not really. Despite coming from comedy, this is a very gentle comedy. It's not one hard on laughs.

[00:20:09] And his movies that have comedic elements tend to be harder comedic elements than this. Yeah. It's, um... Yeah, I'm looking at McDowell again. Very interesting career. I had completely... Let's just do McDowell now then. So the film stars Andy McDowell. I had completely flipped in my mind that the reason she is so bad in Four Weddings and a Funeral is because it was before she kind of figured out her thing through working with better directors after. No. It's the exact opposite.

[00:20:39] No. The whole thing with Andy McDowell in Four Weddings is that it will never be explained. You can... I'm serious. No, truly. It is like science just because... No, I thought you were... I'm just laughing because I thought you were going to explain it and then you were like, it will be. It will be. I will run it for you right now, quick. Okay? She breaks out in Greystroke, Tarzan Legend of the Apes where she is Jane. But like, yeah, it's dope. She's gorgeous. Yes. And it's like, okay, on she. Ben, producer Ben, she is cast as Jane in a live action Tarzan movie, Big Warner Brothers production because of her look. Yeah. She's very young.

[00:21:09] And she is so bad in the film that they hired Glenn Close to re-dub all of her dialogue. Well, it's also because she's like, you know, she's got the southern thing. Yeah. But she's landing immediately with this framework of like, well, she's nice to look at. I guess so. Sure. She has a small role in St. Elmo's Fire, which is a big, you know, movie for that generation, but it's obviously a stupid movie. In 1989, she's in Sex, Lies and Big. Three years later. Probably. Yeah. She did a little TV in between, but not much. Probably kind of her best role.

[00:21:39] She's amazing in that movie. She's incredible in it. Makes Soderbergh look like a genius. A huge movie. She's so effective in it. Yeah. Then she's in Green Card, which she absolutely rocks. I agree. Just thunderous. Yeah. 82 points. I agree. She's awesome. Just fucking crazy. And then she's in The Object of Beauty, which is- You're skipping right over Hudson Hawk. No, I am not. Oh, okay. Sorry. That's next. Object of Beauty, which I've never heard of, but it's a rom-com with Malkovich with the poster looks like this. Yeah. I'm not turned on. Me neither. I don't really know.

[00:22:08] It might not be a rom- No, it says it's a romantic comedy about the fine art of thievery. Okay. Then Hudson Hawk, which is a huge bomb. I've never seen. I have seen Hudson Hawk. How is it? I think it's pretty fun. I think it's fun. That's one where people are kind of like, oh, it's not so bad. I think it's fun. I mean, it's not- Is she good at it? No. I mean, she's barely- Right, okay. It's a nothing fun. She plays a nun who falls in love with him- Oh, who wouldn't? He's Hudson Hawk! He's Hudson Hawk. He's saying, you know, he and Danny Aiello sang throughout it.

[00:22:37] She's one of the only people in the movie who doesn't get to be fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So much of that movie's embarrassing reputation is that everyone's like swinging for the fences, and every character is overconceived, and she's kind of playing the straight character. She plays herself in the player little funny cameo. She's in a movie called Deception, pretty forgotten movie with Neeson. Sort of like a thriller, whatever. She's in Groundhog Day. Incredible. Phenomenal! Light right out in Groundhog Day. You're in love with her. Yeah. She's in Shortcuts. Really incredible in Shortcuts. Agreed!

[00:23:07] Like, and everyone's good in that, but she's kind of one of my favorite parts of it. And you're like, great! Annie McDowell has totally figured out how to act. She's arrived as a movie star. Then she is in one of the most important romantic comedies ever made, like where everyone is on fire good, that is a huge hit, and gets nominated for Best Picture, and she's weirdly flattened. Like, it doesn't make any sense. She's a contest winner plucked off the street! I don't think it's entirely her fault. I don't think it's- I mean, I- My point is it's clearly not her fault. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Something happened.

[00:23:36] I love Four Weddings and a Funeral more than any other movie. Me too! And I think it's just- Part of it is that she's up against Kristen Saad Thomas, who is just like, again, you know, like, I don't know, slam dunking the ball. And she's just so out of place in it. What's it about? Four Weddings and a Funeral? Have you never seen? No. It's about- I can tell you. Are you setting us up to say Four Weddings and a Funeral? I sure am. Okay. It's about a group of friends.

[00:24:04] It's about the lives of a group of friends set over four weddings and one funeral that they attend over. Those are the only events you see. Oh, okay. A couple years of their life connected by- And she is an American- And they sort of- They have sex, actually, that first wedding. They sure do. And- And- And then one of the weddings- Yeah. No spoilers.

[00:24:32] And she's hot, like, and the whole point is she's this sort of mysterious object of affection. But she and Grant just don't really have much chemistry. Yeah, they don't have the chemistry. And it's sort of weird. And it kind of doesn't matter. The movie rules. Yeah. It weirdly doesn't affect the movie that badly. It weirdly doesn't matter. But yet everyone comes out of it going, why is she so bad at that? And then she- Her career dies. Yeah. She keeps making movies, but like she never was like a big deal again. Yeah. When it should have been like, great, you were just in a huge hit.

[00:25:02] Like, get rid- And she's in, of course, Michael, a film we've covered on this podcast. Yes. She's in The Muse. She's in your favorite film of all time, Muppets from Space. Yeah, she's pretty good in it. Can't say I remember. First of all, do you like- Do you actually like Michael? No, that's my least favorite. I have a lot of issues with that film. Yeah, it's bad. But she plays a rival local news reporter who Miss Piggy is trying to beat to the scoop of alien existence. Right. She's never stopped working. Like, she's, you know, working all the time.

[00:25:30] She has produced, of course, a Hollywood's great ingenue now, Margaret Qualley. Really? I thought she was excellent in Magic Mike XXL. Loved her in that. Did you like her in Goodrich? Yeah. She had a couple scenes there. We talked about that movie on the show. Yes, we did. I do feel like every time I see Annie McDowell show up in that size of role- Right. In like a dramedy, I'm like, she's really kind of aged into something interesting. I remember liking her in Ready or Not, the horror film. Very fun. I really-

[00:25:59] Obviously, she's in Beauty Shop, your favorite film. Not. Your favorite film? Not my favorite film. She says, for your FYI. Or does Alicia Silverstone say that? I think Alicia Silverstone says that. Yeah. She is quite good in the limited series, which I'm sure you guys don't watch, Made, which was- I remember that existed. Which was, it was Margaret's, it was a role for Margaret that she plays her mom in and she's very done. I mean, I think the beautiful thing about- Oh, M-A-I-D. Yeah. Yes, I remember that.

[00:26:28] I think the beautiful thing about, you know, I mean, she looks incredible. She looks incredible. Yeah, she looks incredible and she has gone totally natural. Right. She has gray hair. Yes. She like, if she's had work done, it's like super barely. She is aged incredibly. It is one of the things. She feels- And she now has this, I mean, I guess she always had it, but she feels so earthy now in a way that's very interesting. It's one of the things I like most about seeing her show up and stuff now. Yeah. It is crazy that it's just a crazy weird career.

[00:26:57] She also has the best hair of any human that ever lived. I mean, there's that moment in this movie where he's like, where she puts her hair up to go to dinner and he's like, your hair looks better down. Here's another reason I think this movie is a little forgotten. Yeah. What year did it come out, guys? 1990. What's another movie that came out in 1990? Pretty Woman. There was actually, I was doing a little bit of research. I'm sure that- Which is, in my opinion, a far inferior film to this film. I don't really like Pretty Woman that much.

[00:27:26] No, I think, yeah, I don't like Pretty Woman that much, but- I appreciate the phenomenon. I'm not, you know, I'm not here to deny it. But I didn't mean to step on JJ's toes, but I did do a little Googling. I didn't do that deep to Google. Uh-oh! JJ gonna be- I'm gonna have to fire you? We've been trying to get JJ to Google. We've been asking him for use it. No, but there was a story in the New York Times literally about how Green Card I can't remember which came first, but like Green- I think Pretty Woman came first.

[00:27:55] Well, yes, I think Pretty Woman came first because there was a story in the New York Times that was basically like, oh, this is trying to do the Pretty Woman thing and it's not working. Like, you know, it's not working as like, well, and it's like, it's, it was almost framed as they were trying to copy it, but it was like- That's so weird. Pretty Woman was March 1990. Yeah. And was obviously this runaway success for like the whole year. And Green Card comes out Christmas time 1990. Yeah. It's a funny article. I read it sort of confused almost like, why would you even compare these two movies? You know?

[00:28:25] Well, it's got two people in it. A man and a woman. It does have two people. And they're kind of- Green Card, the literally- Oh, Karen James wrote this. Interesting. Karen James. Karen James, our colleague at the New York Film Critics Circle. Green Card Apes Pretty Woman was the headline. Green Card was not conceived as daughter of Pretty Woman, although it seems that way now. Pretty Woman, she's walking down the street. You know? Da-na-na-na-na. Um- Also, they were both Touchstone. Ben like that. Yes, they're both Touchstone.

[00:28:55] They're both Touchstone and part of it was that it wasn't that, oh, the movies were the same, but that Touchstone was trying to market it the same way. Sure, they gave us a pink composter. Because they were like, you know, yeah. Yeah. But I also think there was this codification of what a Touchstone movie was, which was really important to the film ecosystem for a while. I remember a Mad Magazine article in the early 90s. Absolutely. It's a kid who devoured that. You read it for the articles. I only read it for the articles. Sergio Aragonius, you tore it out. Yeah. I don't want to see it.

[00:29:26] Sorry. Those spies are up to no good. We cannot support the spies. Get out of here, Antonio Prohas. He- there was an article that was, uh, what if, uh, Walt Disney was, uh, awakened from cryosleep. And it was a multi-page illustrated comic, uh, story of Walt Disney being shown around the 90s. Right. Like how things have changed. State of Walt Disney by Michael Eisner. Right. And it's saying, and here we have Touchstone pictures. And he goes, what's Touchstone pictures?

[00:29:54] And he goes, Touchstone pictures are labeled for films with more adult themes that we could never release under Walt Disney pictures. Like, for example, Pretty Woman, a movie about like a financial maven who falls in love with a- Oh ho ho. A prostitute. Right. Right. And he goes, oh, and at the end she's like sent back to her life of struggle. And he's like, no, he basically like marries her and makes her a princess. Like the bit that they were sort of found a way to make movies that almost had- A Disney, uh, arc to them.

[00:30:24] Right. Despite being for grownups. I think of Touchstone films with a lot of warmth. Yeah. Because there was, not just because of the air it represented, but it did feel like Touchstone had a lot of good mid-budget kind of gooey movie star comfort films. I think of the warmth because when lightning strikes. Hot. And that's what Touchstone is. You don't want to touch the stone if lightnings hit it. You don't. Um, I think that was some of- No, I do too. You see that logo and you're like, ah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

[00:30:52] I think that's sort of maybe what people were starting to comment on is like, is this just going to be their fucking beat now? Um, and you know, up until that point, when they found it, Eisner and Katzenberg, their whole strategy was like get diminished value stars. Yeah, sure. Like a sort of a B-level guy. Right. They were like, Bette Midler, five picture deal. Richard Dreyfuss, five picture deal. It was so easy.

[00:31:19] No, it was either people who had flops they were too afraid to recover from. Yeah, or- Or had just kind of like alienated too much of the industry and you could get them at a bargain. No, Richard Dreyfuss wasn't either of those, right? Right? He hadn't had any flops or alienated anybody. No, it's- I think it's down and out in Beverly Hills is Dreyfuss, Nolte, and Midler who were all like fucking bargain basements, clearance, must go movie stars.

[00:31:46] And that movie opened to number one at the box office and they were like, see our fucking thing works. The trailer for Green Book, which is very deranged- What do you mean Green Card? Thank you. Yes. Because nobody does an accent in Green Book, that film. You're right. No one's doing a kind of like a big ethnic sort of accent. Let me correct myself. No one's eating a pizza. The trailer for Green Book is sensitive, profound- Thank you. Uproariously funny. Right, yep. And it has- A beating heart. A beating heart at the center named Linda Cardellini. Yes.

[00:32:16] The trailer for Green Card is insane. I haven't seen the trailer. It's a peak 90s trailer. Yeah, I haven't watched the trailer. It was on the Blu-ray. It felt like it was 12 minutes long. She's a horticulturalist. He- we actually- it's hard to fucking tell what he does. Who knows what he does? He's maybe a composer, but maybe he's not. He walks around in a cloak. It's a lot of that, but there's so much voiceover talking through every plot. He's heaps in the pod. She needs the apartment. But this is the one- the part I want to call out.

[00:32:39] Touchstone Pictures presents France's most acclaimed actor, Gerard Depardieu, and America's newest film sensation, Andy McDowell, in the story of two people, yada, yada, yada. Like, the wind up on that fucking trailer. I mean, I guess I get it because it's like, neither of them are household names, but they are both, you know, you can present them credibly as like, these are new exciting people. We need to explain to you why these are movie stars. He just won the fucking, you know, in a movie that won the Palme d'Or. Yeah.

[00:33:09] And he is from France. Yes. Which is cultured. But do you think like the sex- It's not a handyman De Niro. Like, do you think the sex- lies in videotape was at all of a selling point for her at this point? That was a big movie. I know it was a big hit, but it's interesting, I guess, to- Sex- lies in videotape made more money than green card. Like that- Yeah. Sex- lies in videotape was a big old hit.

[00:33:33] But it's interesting also though to like transition from that into sort of like sweetheart territory. Which is also why I think they're not- That's sort of what I'm- Yes. I'm more mean, which is like, you know. A little sugar to the salt here. I think that's why they're not naming- But not total sugar. Right. They're not going and from sex- lies in videotape. You know that movie about filming people who fuck? Right. They're saying America's newest film sensation. Yeah. And you're like, oh, right. They let you fill in the blank because they're trying to frame her a different way. They did a good job.

[00:34:04] We love Andy McDowell for about five or six years. And then we kind of get sick of her. I just think the tagline for this title, which I butchered- But it's a great tagline. But it's the thing that like 90 studio exec dreams were made of. Absolutely. Of like walking in and you're like, here's the poster. One movie star holding another movie star. And you're like, you're promising me two movie stars? And they're like, yes, TBD. Probably.

[00:34:27] The title is Green Card and the tagline is the story of two people who got married, met, and then fell in love. And you're like, you've just told me all three acts. I see the movie in my head. And it's like everyone knows what a green card marriage is. Yup. No one's thought to do the movie yet. No. It's the obvious rom-com setup. I will say, though, I think what's interesting about the movie is the three acts come are more subtle

[00:34:54] and not exactly what you would expect from that tagline. Like I'm expecting, I was watching and I was expecting like, you know, oh, there's one night when they, you know, they, they- You get drunk on the beach, confess the secrets. And then one of the builds a raft and says, fuck you, Linda. Sorry. Keep going. Sorry. Was that sent help? Okay. Have you sent help yet? Oh, yeah. I sent help with David. Yeah. I sent help with David.

[00:35:23] Um, I love send help. Um, but yeah, you're expecting, there's that scene where they're, um, where they each, they each go to bed in her apartment for the first night.

[00:35:35] And, you know, he's bare chested and burly and he asks her what side of the bed she sleeps on and you, and she looks at the door and you sort of, you know, in a more tropey movie, you know, she walks out the door, she sees him, they, you know, they kiss, they maybe do something else. But it doesn't, but it doesn't happen that way. And I think that's a good thing about this movie, but it also makes it a little bit more of an honor duck than you're expecting. It does.

[00:36:05] I found this movie odd. I loved the ending. I- The ending is so good. The ending is incredible. The ending is kind of like, you're like, oh fuck, this whole thing made sense. Any, yeah, that any sort of reservations I had went away, but I still have my problems. I also have problems with Depardieu. That's my thing as well. It's a little bit of a hurdle for me to get over.

[00:36:32] And it's not just because we know now he is a bad person. He is a bad person. He's a bad person. He's quite a terrible person. It seems fairly definitive that he's- Especially become quite the ogre. Yes. Is it, can I now tell my story about- Please. My most recent Depardieu story was I was in Cannes last year and I got an email from an editor at the New York Times asking me to write a story on-

[00:37:00] It had just, his conviction had just been announced. In his- When you say conviction, he has been accused and put on trial several times for various things. But he finally- But he finally got- But there was one that got- There was his sexual assault conviction actually. Like, he actually was convicted. There have truly just been decades of stories about Gerard Depardieu. And even in this moment in 1990 where it's like, Cyrano's getting him in a Best Actor nomination. He's starring in Green Card. He's doing his American Press, like his first real run of like, is- Are we ready for France's biggest movie star?

[00:37:30] He says like, seven insanely objectionable things in interviews that were litigated for weeks in the press in a way that like, feels like our modern discourse cycle. Back then people would kind of move on from shit. But this he was found guilt-like- Yeah. He was found guilty of sexual assault in last match. And was he getting a pass because he was foreign? No. Well, this is what Esther's about to tell you though. Well, this is like, I- Yeah, I- So they were like, can you write a story about like, Can reacting to it?

[00:37:59] Um, and obvious, he's the king of Can. Like, you know, you walk down the street, there are pictures of him. He's been in, um, like so many- Like so many movies that were at the festival. And so basically my task was to go around and find people to talk. I got the Simon, I went to a party and I was like, I'll- I'll- I'll- I'll- on the beach. It was very fancy. It was very Can. Um, Shirley, I'll find people. And I sort of started putting out feelers with American colleagues.

[00:38:27] Like, do you know any French colleagues that would like be willing to speak? And a lot of the thing was like, no, no, no, no. Like we- we cannot speak about Gerard. And I finally just sort of was like going around listening and seeing if I heard French accents and going up to people. And I- Profiling people, Esther. Well, yeah. Um, and so I found, you know, like a publicist who's like, you know, and- And the quotes were exactly what you would expect, which is like, he's probably guilty. Probably- I found the quote. Probably guilty.

[00:38:56] Probably being a very bad man. But he's also been- he has been also more respectful. A man who has achieved an unbelievable work in many domains. And it's just like, it was so like walking around and everyone's blowing cigarette smoke in my face. It was just like the most- but I think there's been a- yeah, years and years and years of this happening and being like, oh, but he's Gerard. This is- this is what Gerard does. He's- this is fine. Frances Hull response to me too made America look like fucking woke point 10.

[00:39:26] You know, like- Yeah. Like it's just like where they're always just like, uh, yes, but he's good actor. You know, and I'm being- I'm doing a dumb accent and I'm being like silly and dismissive about it. But it is true that when you like- like artists would just like sign petitions randomly defending people and it's like, why? And they're like, well, he is such a celebrity- like how can you attack art? Yeah. This is, you know, you are lynching this man, you know. Like former presidents. Right. The tone is very often like, you know, who knows if these things are true.

[00:39:55] And even if they are true, such things happen. Boys will be boys. Right. You know, blah, blah, blah. But what we cannot deny is that Gerard gave us 50 years of film history. Yeah. And how dare you threaten to erase that? Like the French's response- They do not care. Like he was found guilty and they were like- Yes. I think it's getting a little more serious. Like I do feel like there's been genuine cultural- Like sort of- And there have been people who have taken like- Facing up to it a little. An incredible stand, like Adele Hanel. Yeah.

[00:40:25] Adele Hanel has done like incredible- But it's basically only this current younger generation of French filmmakers and actors who are actually pushing back on the thing. And even so have experienced insane career repercussions. Um, but yeah, no, their attitude is just like- It felt like what they saw was, Oh, so what? People say a story about Kevin Spacey and now Kevin Spacey movies no longer exist? They cannot do that to our culture. Right. And they get so defensive about like-

[00:40:53] Honestly, they feel that way about like Kevin Spacey too. Yeah. He was all over Cannes last year too. The other thing is that he became this like comical like cube of a man. Yes. Who not only was like credibly accused of basically just being a total creep, you know, for decades. But also was like, and I will pay no taxes. Right. And I can piss anywhere on an airplane that I want. And like, you know, it was just like, he was just this like cartoon villain. Yes. Like-

[00:41:22] But he was given like such cultural indulgence, right? That you're like, this guy is just like- He randomly like wrote a letter about how Putin is good. Like he was really freelancing out into other areas of evil, like in the 2010s and 2020s. Like kind of like the sort of Steven Seagal approach of like, I'm flooding the zone. Yes. Bad in every direction.

[00:41:44] And also like my, my uncle who's an actor in France is just like, yeah, it's like one of the open secrets that Gerard has used in earpiece for like 25 years. Even when he's doing like stage, when he's doing TV, when he's doing film, like he's a lazy piece of shit and he doesn't learn his lines. That is me quoting an angry working actor in France at like how much they let Depardieu get away with. Like, he's like, he shows up and he doesn't know what the character is and the audience applauds.

[00:42:12] Like he just became so deeply tied reputationally to the idea of French cinema. Like this is our living legend and nothing he could do would distort the sort of enormity of all of it. So he just made so many fucking movies. A ton of movies. It's like 15 years. A bunch in Hollywood, but way more in France. Yes. Like, and he sort of, right. In every genre.

[00:42:36] He sort of successfully morphed from young, you know, interesting actor to leading man to like older comic actor supporting. To Obelix. Right, like he even has his big franchise. I mean, when they were making the Asterix movie, they were like, there is one Obelix and it is Gerard Depardieu. I remember reading. No one else can play this man. I remember reading an Asterix book in like the early 90s. And in the front page, they had a caricature of Gerard Depardieu. Right. As Obelix. And I was like, why'd they make it Depardieu?

[00:43:06] And my mom was like, because they just know he's going to play him in a movie at some point. Because like the Asterix keeps changing in those movies. Yeah. And Depardieu is Obelix for the first four. Like he didn't change. Here's how I would put it, Ben. Okay. Imagine if the biggest star in Hollywood. And I know in your head, you're probably thinking John Goodman, right? Yes. Mm-hmm. Was not asked to play live action Fred Flintstone. Was basically asked to play live action Barney Rubble.

[00:43:36] Yeah. He did it like- Obelix is sort of the Barney. Ten times. Right. And the guy playing live action Barney Rubble had over decades been seen as the nation's greatest heartthrob. Right. Our most intense dramatic actor. I mean- Like all of it, you know? And you're like, now kids are like, yeah! Obelix! Obelix! Obelix! Obelix!

[00:44:05] I've got an intentional air about you today. Well, I'm more intentional about what I wear day to day. Oh, interesting. I like to lean into pieces that feel easy, comfortable, and put together. Well, I'm sure you could get those from anywhere, right? No! Quints! Look, really, I am wearing- Oh, he's showing tag. I'm literally wearing quints right now. Listeners, he's showing tag on me. What are you doing? It's been my go-to because very clean fits. Mm-hmm. Very nice fabrics. They don't feel like cheap fabrics. I hate dirty fits. I hate cheap fabrics. I am in, we're in, you know, the weather's getting warmer.

[00:44:35] I really rely on my quints polo shirts for the kind of like, exactly like a formal enough piece of clothing that I can go to the office. Mm-hmm. But it's comfy. Yes, because we do have a dress code here at Blankton Productions. Uh-huh. So, they got those 100% Pima cotton tees with a softness. They got a feel. Oh! And for the list of our home, David is touching the fabric. Pants hit that same balance, relaxed and comfortable. I gotta tell you, I recently had a birthday and my in-laws sent me a Quints gift card

[00:45:03] because they know I like Quints so much and I am itching to spend it. That's a really strong endorsement. That's an endorsement? Yes. Right? Yes. Um, everything at Quints is priced 50 to 80% less than what you find in similar brands because they work with those ethical factories. They cut out the middlemen, getting premium materials without the markup. Mm-hmm. I've got the cashmere zip. Okay, David is showing me a- Oh, nice. Cashmere zip sweater. I like that color. It's very nice. Yeah. I wear it all the time. It's got pockets. Um, so, refresh your everyday with the luxury you actually use.

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[00:45:57] All right, I'm gonna open the dossier before we can return to the sort of where Depardieu was in his career for green card. But I want to open the dossier. Witness, Peter Weir. He's transitioned to Hollywood. He made a massive hit called Witness. Wins two Academy Awards. John Book. His name is John Book. His name is John Book. And he's gotta go to Amish country. He witnessed something. You like Witness? Yeah. Oh yeah. Witness the Fitness? Witness the Fitness? It's a British song people will understand. Oh my God. Uh, his follow up- I thought I was like, what? Witness the Fitness.

[00:46:26] His follow up The Mosquito Coast. Mm-hmm. Not successful. Not really- I like that movie. I do too. But you know, sort of went over a little tepidly at the time. Doesn't really get awards. And so on and so forth. Peter Weir, very frustrated by this. Thinks about getting out of Hollywood altogether. Um, and uh, you know, he hasn't written a movie since Year of the Living Dangerously. That's the last time he's credited on a screenplay. But so then he's just kind of like, I think I should just write something for myself. It can be something commercial.

[00:46:55] But like, maybe this is what I'm frustrated about right now. Green Card is kind of, he says- It's like, it's I gotta get back in the game. His movies have been getting more epic too. Right. He was working in extreme landscapes, period, different cultures. Yeah. The way he puts it, I was reviving something Frank Capra had perfected, the romantic comedy, A Light Snack. I do love A Light Snack. Mm-hmm. Girl dinner as they say. Is our rom-coms now girl dinner? Our rom-coms girl dinner.

[00:47:22] Um, now of course rom-coms have to be about FBI agents who are rumbled and it turns out- They're going to do a spy mission. There was one- Is there another one? There was one announced, I think yesterday, a new Eddie Murphy, and I'm astonished to say this, streaming movie. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Eddie Murphy wants to make a straight to streaming movie? It won't be anonymous though. He has some weird medical condition where if they project him onto a big screen- He melts. Yeah. Like Alex Mack. Yeah. A bottle of metal.

[00:47:49] I'm just waiting for him to start to become the first actor with an exclusive deal with Delta Airlines. No, he's going to be the first actor who's like, they AI-ed me. Yeah. I'm a fucking AI now. Yeah. They can just put me in anything now. I watched his last one, The Drop, which sucks. Evil Longoria plays his wife in it and is quite good. They've announced that of course they now need to re-team as if the public's demanding another- Wait, he made a movie called The Drop? Or it's called The Take? There's another movie called The Drop. Yeah, because The Drop is the one with Tom Hardy. Maybe it's called The Pickup. And then there's Drop. Right. Which is the phone one. Yes.

[00:48:19] Looks like Pete Davidson's in this one too. Uh huh. Kiki Palmer. Was Pete Davidson- Evil Longoria. Was he playing a character that's like really different from like his general vibe as a guy? David, you joke. I would argue the problem with that movie is he is playing a character that is way too different from his general vibe as a guy. Oh, okay. Fair enough. It is Pete Davidson as, I can't get laid. I don't know how to talk to girls. And I'm like, are you fucking winking at the cameras this whole movie? But I feel like Eddie Murphy looks at him and is like, is that his deal? Like, Eddie Murphy's just like- Correct.

[00:48:47] So on planet famous. He's like, what's this nerds deal? That's the energy of the movie. Right. It's like Pete Davidson making Eddie Murphy look at text exchanges. Right. And he's like, I don't fucking know. Shut up. So you didn't like it? No, it sucks. Okay. It's a movie for idiots and losers. But he's announced another streaming film, of course. Eve Longoria is kind of good in it. Okay. And then it's like, they gotta re-team. The chemistry was so undeniable on Amazon Prime that they're making a new movie and it was called like Parental Attachment Style or something like that.

[00:49:17] I saw, I believe I saw a Deadline article or whatever. Relationship. Attachment Parenting. Attachment Parenting. And I was like, okay, okay. That's like, sounds low concept enough. It's like a green card-esque title. Is it just about the two parents empty nesting? No, it's about they get tied into the mob. Right. A relationship is put to the ultimate test when they're forced to counsel a crime boss's family while being held hostage. Great. Sounds like it has a bunch of fucking guns in it! It probably has a lot of guns.

[00:49:47] At least a couple guns. Like the first sentence of that, I was like, is it just gonna be Eva Longoria and Eddie Murphy have to figure out what their marriage is like now that their kids have left the house? Professional comedy. Yeah. Right. And just let them talk to each other. A light snack. A light snack. It sounds like a light snack. Can we talk a little sort of like larger rom-com theory here, Esther? Okay. What do you mean? Well, I just, the modes of rom-com and sort of like what we each believe in, in terms

[00:50:15] of like what makes a fruitful rom-com. Okay. There is a thing this movie does that I value greatly and I realized while watching it how few examples I could think of, of this being utilized. Which is, I am often frustrated by the rom-com that is predicated on a lie. Yeah, sure. To people meet. You know the lie's gonna get busted. They fall in love and it's just kind of an annoying tension till they get to the conversation and they blow up and someone has to come apologize for being mad about a thing they should have

[00:50:44] been mad about in the first place. Right? This movie is, they're in the same lie. Yeah. Yes, right. They meet each other. For different reasons. Basically forming a lie. Right, right. But they're a hundred percent on the same page within that, which is so much better as a kind of like pressure cooker for tensions to develop. Yeah. I mean, I think, do you think there are other examples? Um, though nothing is coming to mind. I'm sure if I thought about it harder.

[00:51:13] Um, but I think the, the situation with the, like the rom-com of deception is always hard because then somebody needs to forgive someone. Sure. Yeah. You gotta buy that. And you always have, and then, and sometimes it works and sometimes it like absolutely doesn't. And that's like, but it's been, I mean, and that has been like, for instance, like the, um, the Doris Day Rock Hudson rom-coms, like two of them, not the last one, but like,

[00:51:41] are all like, he's pretending to be a Texas guy and she's like a working woman and like literally, you know, at the end of pillow talk, he literally like carries her out of bed and like, you know, brings him up and it's like, okay, she's fallen in love with him. But do we really believe this? And the movie has to end. So that's what we, we have the movie has to end. So that's what we have to do.

[00:52:05] And obviously it always seems more fair when either the lie is so outrageous or there's so much of a double sort of standard. Like, I think like, I think sometimes the lies work when, you know, it's for instance, a like Lady Eve where she sort of double crosses him and then double crosses him again.

[00:52:35] And it's like triple crosses. I don't know. I don't know numbers, but how many crossing? I'm going to give you some other ones. Yeah. While you were sleeping. Yeah. The most insane built on a lie things ever where you're like, I love this movie, except for she will eventually have to reveal. I am a psychopath. Like you're right. I mean, you've got mail in Seattle and you've got mail both have this. Yeah. I'm trying to think what else. Well, does Sleepless in Seattle actually have it outside of the fact that she doesn't really,

[00:53:05] she's like stalking him, but like, you know, she doesn't really lie to him. No, that's more. She's just being insane. That's more. She's being insane. You've got mail is more the like, he actually lies to her. He's not telling her something. What's interesting to me is Lady Eve, which I think is as good as any rom-com ever made. Yeah. It does the triple lie at least. And yet it almost feels like it pushing it that far is a commentary on how many rom-coms

[00:53:34] were already built upon lies at that point. Yeah. Like it feels like the postmodern version of like, they're just going to keep fucking lying to each other. Well. And then spoilers, the end of that movie is the guy being like, I don't even fucking care what reality is anymore. Well, I mean, but the thing is, is they break up in the first place in that movie because he is mad. He actually is mad at her for lying to him. And then she gets pissed at him. So she gets because she actually does fall in love. So then she lies to him again to back. And then he's just so confused.

[00:54:02] And that's the screwball thing that happens all the time, which is like, they just get so confused at the end. Like someone just gets so confused at the end and they're like, whatever, let's fuck. Like this takeaway is also like the energy of you as a person is who I want to be with and who I am in love with. I'll work out whoever the fuck you actually are later. Yeah. It's kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like there's some, you know, I mean, this is a shitty movie. Well, it's not a shitty movie, but like this movie. No.

[00:54:30] Oh, the movie about the movie I'm about to say. I do think there are some that try to do like double deception. Like, you know, I don't like this movie very much, but like how to lose a guy in 10 days. That's a classic. They're both lying about different things. Right. You're sort of like, but I mean, I just don't think that movie is that good. No, I think the unified lie is an underused power move. Yeah.

[00:54:55] And I think it's also because the best rom-coms are there is a circumstantial reason these two people need to be together. Yeah. There's a reason they can't leave. This is like forged in fire. And you can have the arc of like, they're driving each other crazy and then they start to connect and then they realize their feelings and they hurt each other in a way that doesn't feel like, hey, why wouldn't you walk out the front door? Why are you still bothering with this guy? Right. I mean, there have been some more we have to date, you know, to like more recent ones.

[00:55:25] It's such a romance novel trope. Yeah. Like we have to fake dating to in order to. But I think what's interesting about this is that also they don't. They don't getting into it. They don't think they have to spend any time together, whereas the fake dating thing has is often. Oh, we have to pretend like we're in love. And so then we actually fall in love. This event gets there eventually. But they literally are like, bye. Once again, it's why the tagline is good because they mean they fucking.

[00:55:54] No, I mean, they get married. They meet. Then they meet. They don't exchange pleasantries until after they marry. Yeah. And it's like so long for the road. I guess I should know what your name was. Peter Weir. Great quote. I thought Green Card was a film that should be seen at five o'clock in the afternoon. The perfect sort of late matinee. I never thought of it as a night out sort of film. Initially, he wrote it for an Englishman. Right. Like that was his that was his concept. Right. You know, it would happen one night.

[00:56:23] He put it in a bottom drawer, as he said, just kind of felt irrelevant. Felt like it had been done before. Like I was writing it for like a Dudley Moore, you know, Jared Depardieu. He's told many different stories of how he sort of first noticed him. But it's basically like I kept seeing this guy in movies. Now, the movie he cites the most often is Danton, the great Andre Wadja movie about the French Revolution, which is mostly which rocks. Especially if you love the French Revolution like I do.

[00:56:50] But is a lot of sweaty, hot Depardieu as George Danton in his final days. Basically, like going like, oh, they are going to execute me. Oh, this is so bad. And then yelling at everyone. Why would you do that to me? This was part of the riddle for American audiences is they'd be like, they think he's hot. A little bit. But I look, I'm sorry. Like, I think Jared Depardieu is so hot. I like, you know, 90s, 80s and 90s Depardieu. Yes, absolutely.

[00:57:19] Like he I find him incredibly magnetic. I kind of get it in this movie. I don't care. I don't care. I super get it in like, Last Metro and shit. Like that, like all that stuff. Yeah, earlier Depardieu. Yes. I think here he here he feels inches inching to. Quasimodo. I mean, the hair is so. He's slouching towards Quasimodo. He's full of crap. Because he's always got like this like cloak on. It just makes him look like some. I know. It's.

[00:57:48] We've said this about other actors before. And I just want to say as a hyperbolic person, I'm about to say it and mean it as the ultimate. He has the most face of any person. Yeah. Ever. There's so many crevices and contours. It's insane. So many directions it goes in. There's no way you can point a camera on him and that face not taking up like the full frame. No. It's just like. It's like a fucking. It's like a Frank Gehry building or something. You're trying to figure out how it's like set up.

[00:58:18] You know, it's interesting. His son, you know, Guillaume Depardieu who died very young. Right. Like but like he, you know, who he had with Elise Ventre, right? His sort of very beautiful wife. Was sort of like what if you kind of programmed a computer to make a sort of more conventionally handsome Depardieu. Yeah. But you don't lose the nose. Like you still see him in it. But it's kind of like this is like the sanded off Gerard. I think it was let the sunshine in. Sure. The Claire Denis film where he comes in at the very end.

[00:58:48] I mean, a movie about how French men are normal. A movie I love. Great movie. And ends with France's most normal man being her therapist or like spiritual. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good twist. And he shows up just in a close up like jump scare. Cut in. He's like a psychic. He's like reading her. Right. Like 80, 90 minutes in. I swear to God for a second. I went like, is this movie in 3D? Just looking at his face in 2015 or whatever.

[00:59:17] And you saying like Peter Weir was like, who's this French man who keeps popping up on my screen? A little bit. I can't shake this guy. He wasn't buying tickets for Depardieu movies. There were just Depardieu movies playing on the screen next over and his nose slid in. I invade. So he writes this screenplay with Depardieu. He doesn't tell the actor I'm thinking about you or anything like that. He's just kind of like, all right, the Englishman thing is not sparking for me. What if I wrote it for a Frenchman? He's afraid of calling him up to say that he did this.

[00:59:46] So instead, he took a picture of him that ran with an interview he gave in the local paper and he kept it on his desk. And he would just look at it. And I guess probably just go, whoa! Like every time he looked, whoa! There he is again! Danton, he likes the picture. The Frenchman, Charles Depardieu, had never given an English language performance. So it's not even like, you're not even automatically assuming he'd work, you know, in a movie where he has to speak English. Here's how, here's the things that he was interested by.

[01:00:15] His masculinity, his vulnerability, his mysterious contradictory quality of child and man, beauty and beast. I mean, yeah, sure. Here's the thing I'll throw out that I think is worth considering as well. He's just done, Peter Weir, three big A-list Hollywood movie star movies in a row. Two Harrison Fords and then Robin Williams. He gets along with these guys really well. But that's a level of stardom where the plus side is automatic green light, big budget given to you. Yes, totally. Confidence from studio.

[01:00:45] The downside is you're kind of, you've got some co-authoring with those guys. And you're on their rails. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And like, obviously he, with Mosquito Coast, he went against type with Ford and Ford's there with him. Yeah. But then the reaction from everyone is like, this doesn't make sense for Harrison Ford. That's too much for Harrison Ford. At the time, everyone was just like, nah, he's trying to do something he can't do. It does feel like he is strategically here trying to make a movie where he, it can be his movie and he is selecting actors.

[01:01:13] And unlike those guys who are going to command a big salary, but also an automatic green light, the alternate way to go about this is to basically bet on movie star futures and get two people who are in a transitional state where you can point to, here's what's worked up until now. And if I can get them over this line, suddenly you have a movie star who's worth more than you paid for them.

[01:01:36] There's also, but that's such an interesting thing in the case of Depardieu, I think, because I think usually when you're betting on movie star futures, it's that people haven't fully figured out their persona yet when you're betting on. And here, the movie does have to be so catered to the Depardieu-ness of it all because he's so, like there's no way for him not to be that.

[01:02:06] So, it's just an interesting thing because he's, yes, he's not Harrison Ford, but... Did you ever do like an action movie? Harrison Ford? No, Sherrod Depardieu. No, no. Yes, it was, I don't know. I genuinely was wondering. Him buying a fucking piece of ham, I don't know. No, I don't know. I feel like he never was that... I guess what I'm saying is that he has such a star persona, you know? Yes, yes, he does. He does. And that's just an interesting sort of, you know...

[01:02:36] And his star persona is like... And obviously it's untested in the United States, but it's also just so, like, the minute you see it, you're like, okay, I get it, you know? His star persona was inherently a little lascivious.

[01:03:18] Yes. The character is not presented in a way that makes me uncomfortable. But the movie is pointing to a character, and I can't stop thinking about how right past that line, real-world Gerard Depardieu starts. Well, no, and obviously, again, it's, you know, trying to think of where we were then and where we are now.

[01:03:40] At the same time, I think one of the interesting things, and I agree with you, maybe, I wouldn't say troubling, but one of the hurdles you have to get past is people keep talking about how dangerous this man is. Yes, right. And how he's, you know... It's baked into the text that this guy seems like he could be. Something unpredictable about him. And obviously we get to the point where it's like, oh, he just did, like, kid stuff, whatever.

[01:04:09] And yet you're sort of like, oh, did he do something real bad? Because I feel like this guy could have done something real bad. That's the innate dangerous energy Depardieu has, and I think Weir was really smart to make a movie that leads with that. Right. You're worried, and then the chips start to, the layers fall away. I mean, there's that moment where he gets mad and he slams the thing and her picture falls down and breaks glass.

[01:04:34] And I don't know, there's a weird, it's an interesting thing, and it's obviously modern opinions versus now, but there's an interesting thing to reckon with, too, where, I don't know, if a man ever did that, like, that freaks me the fuck out, like, a little bit, you know? And I think it gives the movie, I think, this oddness that you have to reckon with now. Which also, I like this movie a tremendous amount as well, but it is kind of predicated on

[01:05:03] Annie McDowell keeps not being satisfied by these kind of hyper-woke, liberal, New York soft people. I mean, yeah. Get him out of here! Oh, I know, but this movie sets up, like, a series of, like... He's the big one, Edelman. Indefensible Baxter. Yeah, right, right, right. And the way she talks about her past relationships. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, this guy doesn't even eat meat. All of this is not stuff I hold against the movie. It's the no oil, no salt, is where Edelman loses me. Or no butter, no salt, whatever, you know?

[01:05:32] But it does feel like in doing that, the framework is anything you might find unsavory about Gérard Depardieu is just a byproduct of him being, quote-unquote, a real man. Right? Real men do get angry. Edelman gets the fucking call for this. It's like you're playing a chinless loser. Right. Depardieu's gonna throw you through a window. And also, Depardieu, like, fucking clocks you for being too sexually pushy? Like, that's the worst case scenario as an actor. Right, right, right.

[01:06:01] Is Depardieu is like, you are not respecting women's boundaries! Throws them down a flight of stairs. Playing George Farre. Yes. So, Depardieu reads the script, finally. Loves it. Says, for me, this is a great situation. You can make a comedy with this, but you can also make the truth. He likes the, you know, the setup. He's committed to make two other movies, so he can't shoot Green Card for the year and a half. Weir is like, ah, fuck. Like, I want to make this. What year is this?

[01:06:28] We're talking probably like 88 or whatever, because Katzenberg at Disney goes like, it's fine. We'll put the movie on hold. We can start in 18 months. Here's the script, by the way, in the meantime, Dead Poets Society. Goes off and makes Dead Poets Society. And so Katzenberg is, and then Katzenberg is like, you can have Final Cut on Green Card. I like this script. It's not going to be expensive. Like, go for it. You know, which, cool. Like, God bless. Like, they don't do that much anymore.

[01:06:55] And Weir, I think, somewhat convinces Disney to basically just be a distributor. Gets a lot of, like, independent financing. Like, makes it like an Australian-French co-production. There was still... It's like a big profit from the movie. Like, Weir made, like, a ton of money off this movie. Yes. Because he had, like, a genuine cut. Yes. He got the Australian film board to partially finance this movie. Because he's making it, essentially. No Australians are in it. Right.

[01:07:22] I guess at that point in time, there was still a lower tier kind of level of support you could get if it is an Australian filmmaker and some number of Australian crew people, even if you don't film in Australia or with any Australian cast. So he really built this movie in a way that is closer to modern film financing and kind of made out like a bandit. Yeah. While having the full support of Disney in the United States. He... Depardee barely spoke English.

[01:07:48] They would translate the screenplay into French for him and then translate it back in English so he understood what he was saying. Depardee's famously, like, completely lost in 1492, which is the Ridley Scott movie in which he plays Christopher Columbus. It's one of the worst... It's the worst Ridley Scott movie ever made. It sucks so, so hard. And I think part of what happened there was he truly did not know the lines he was saying. It's like what he supposedly... You know, and Ridley Scott was probably just, like, eating cigars and just being like, just get on with it or whatever.

[01:08:14] I mean, this movie benefits from leaning into his, like, rough franglais. Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's sort of... It doesn't even... Right. It doesn't even matter. No. David? Yes? You look like a man who doesn't know that Fast Growing Trees is America's largest

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[01:13:13] Didn't feel like he was ever going to become one based on how he speaks. Right? And I do feel like though he made a lot of Hollywood movies after this, he largely just sort of plays villains or comical oaths. My Father the Hero is the year after this. That's certainly comical oath. Then 1492 is the year after that. The Dalmatian? He's in 102. He's in 102. Oh, he's in 102. Yeah. Isn't he the villain in that? He's Cruella's right-hand man. Right. I saw that film in theaters.

[01:13:43] I'm sorry. The French My Father the Hero is 91. The American remake, which he also starred in, was three years later. Right. And then I feel like there's one other big, well, there's like Bogus, which is insane. Never even heard of that one. Bogus is Norman Jewison's last theatrical film, I believe. Oh, wow. Unless, no. No, The Hurricane. The big three. Whoopi Goldberg, Gerard Depardieu, and Haley Joel Osmond. Exactly.

[01:14:08] Haley Joel Osmond is an orphaned boy who's taken in by Whoopi as his godmother, and Gerard Depardieu as his drunk French invisible friend named Bogus. Oh, so far. It sounds like a role he's suited for. But then, right, he's in Branagh Hamlet. He's in Man in the Iron Mask. Right. Well, he's obviously right. In Man in the Iron Mask, that's kind of where they found him. That kind of like, yeah, you can play a drunk French musketeer. But then also, most importantly, in 1999, he does a film called Asterix and Obelix versus Caesar.

[01:14:38] And he's like, I don't need this American bullshit. I got an Asterix movie every three years, no matter what. Yeah. And I mean, Griff, you and I have certainly both seen Le Placar, you know, like that gigantic hit. Giant French movies. A movie where you cannot believe Disney didn't remake that in 2005. Do you know this movie? I do not. It's Daniel LaToy as a man who's going to be fired from his job as an exec at a condom company. It is at a condom company. It's the most French-ass fucking shit.

[01:15:07] And his next door neighbor is like an old, sad, gay French man who was like, I could never come out, but I tried to march and this and that. But the times have changed. Now, if I were gay, they wouldn't have been able to fire me. And it inspires Daniel LaToy and he tells everyone that he's gay and he's fired by discrimination. Well, and it's like because they're a condom company, they cannot fire a gay man. Right. Is the implication. But then they basically make him like the spokesperson for the company.

[01:15:34] They keep traveling, like pushing him around saying, like, look at our gay employee. And Gerard Depardieu plays the boss who has to do the Seinfeld-y, like, not that there's anything wrong with that. And then starts to be like, am I in love with you? Yes. Depardieu is incredibly funny. He's very funny. It's like perfect. It's a really dumb movie. Yeah, but it's fun. It made like one trillion francs. It was like a giant smash hit. It won the Olympics that year. France submitted it in track and field.

[01:16:02] But yes, like that's the kind of stuff he then gets into where it's like he's playing Obelix. He's playing like funny supporting guy. He'll have those art movies or whatever. Two scenes behind a desk and a cop drama or whatever it is. It does feel like he kind of never did a movie where he was running around holding a gun. But even like him showing up in like La Vie en Rose was just sort of like, if you're going to make a legitimate French movie, you need three minutes of Depardieu. He's like blessing your production. Maybe, but I do feel like he stopped like the whole thing with him in the world.

[01:16:30] The 70s and 80s is he is a true collaborator with like a lot of the like giant French filmmakers. And that kind of goes away. He's still like a mainstay in French cinema, but he is not being picked up by like the newer names in French cinema at all. I think he stops being collaborative, period. And I think he becomes a shut up and pay me guy. He's an evil asshole who's right. Impossible to work with and is the sex offender. There's one I really like called When I Was the Singer. Okay. And it's him and Cécile de France.

[01:17:00] When I Was a Singer. It's called something like that. Conjeté Chanteur by Xavier Giannoli. It's sort of an attempt to do a sort of fabulous Baker Boys thing. Like he's one of the few remaining dance band singers in France. It's that plus Lost in Translation. Yeah. It's the sort of like weird. Is this guy sad stuck in the middle in a loop kind of movie that I thought he was very good in. Yes.

[01:17:26] But it definitely feels like the 2000s are the last time where he even kind of gives a shit. I mean, true. Like if you look at his. Yeah. It's like, I just have not heard of many of these movies and I've not heard of many of these filmmakers. Whereas in the 70s, you know, he worked with Rene. He worked with Bertolucci, obviously. He worked with Truffaut. Yes. I mean, that last match was incredible. Like he worked with, you know, Bertrand Blier. You know, Under the Son of Satan is a big movie that is.

[01:17:57] Marcus Pliot. You know, a zillion things. And obviously, Jean de Fleuret is like kind of a big breakout. Oh, yeah. You know, all the way to America. It's another thing that helps push him to America. Yeah. But like 2022, which is the last year before his legal troubles completely consume him, he has seven credits. And I think what you're talking about, Esther, of like the act of trying to introduce a star, right? Or like explode them in that way.

[01:18:25] Getting someone who has the potential and the juice potentially was so different at this point in time with international stars. Yeah. Because it's like it is insane. I think it is one of the few things where I feel the need to constantly give Netflix credit. Netflix figured out how to get people over subtitles. Right. It is fascinating. Right, right, right. Right? That it was just always like even people would struggle with British shows and you'd have to fucking remake them in English, you know, in American English.

[01:18:55] And Netflix has just made it like we are an international company. Everything goes on the same site. It catches on with this audience. And you watch it with subtitle. You watch everything with subtitle. Totally. And so if like someone pops in Squid Game, Hollywood isn't like, oh, I watched this weird thing. This guy is good. How do we find a new way to introduce him to a new audience from square one as if to them he hasn't done anything? It's like, no, put the Squid Game guy in Star Wars.

[01:19:22] Like there is a kind of open playing field in that way. Even I feel like like Omar Sy, who was like one of the last guys where it's like this dude's become the biggest star in France. Let's put him in Jurassic World. And you're like, he's in this. He hasn't really make an impact. He's in a couple other American action films. Then he does Lupin French series. And everyone's like, oh, cool. Yeah. Show us the real fucking thing. Yeah.

[01:19:47] I mean, I do feel, though, that there are still hurdles for a lot of these people in the sense that what it was sort of what you were talking about earlier. So I don't want to repeat anything, but it's like it's the Mads Mikkelsen thing of what they're getting in the United States is still like third lead in a Star Wars thing or, you know, sort of some villain role.

[01:20:17] You know, I think it was like it was sort of what you were talking about with Lee Biong Kong on your No Other Choice episode, which is that like, you know. The American roles have not been in any and this is I mean, I guess this is not really post his is not really post Squid Game, but like still it's still he's still getting better work in South Korea. He's had like six franchisee big budget movies in which he played a principal character and

[01:20:46] all of them are basically exactly the same and did nothing for his career other than normalizing his name above a poster in America. And then you're like, yeah. And then in his fucking homeland, he gets to do whatever the hell he wants. He's got like infinite range of versatility. And like, I mean, I was just looking at this is like, what has Omar Saeed on like post? And it's like he's doing a, you know, upcoming. He did the John Woo remake of The Killer and upcoming. He has some people tell me that was kind of good.

[01:21:15] Yeah, I never watched it, but I heard it was directed. He directed it. And Natalie Emanuel. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, John Woo doesn't have a perfect track record these days. No. What was that Christmas movie? That movie was Silent Night. Terrible. Worst shit I ever saw. But Omar Saeed's next big thing is Shadow Force. A Joe Carnahan like, I think, direct to something. Yeah. I think that's been in the can for a while. I think that came out. Am I wrong? I don't know.

[01:21:43] No, it's, I mean, it says it's in post. I'll say this. I don't know. Whatever. I went. Maybe that did come out. I have no. Yeah. It came out last year. I went to see Thunderbolts and they were holding us. We couldn't leave the theater because. Because you were so excited? Because the Thunder Force? Shadow Force. The Shadow Force. Shadow Force. The Shadow Force premiere was happening at the same time. Right. And they held us in the lobby of the AMC Lincoln Square so that Omar Saeed could get to his. Right. Like, oh, the Shadow Force is here. Yeah. Lupin, Lupin.

[01:22:12] I don't know. It still feels very hard for that true, like, crossover. It does. Yeah. It does. In a leading role. I think the only thing that's changed is it used to be like Gerard Depardieu has been one of France's biggest stars since 1975. And now we are going to present them to you and explain to you how historic they are and

[01:22:41] ask you to just buy in here in his third decade. Right. And that's like what would sometimes feel like a psyop of like the way there was so much energy behind trying to get Robbie Williams to connect to America. Well, you make him a monkey. Yeah. It took him too long to figure that out. But everyone's response to that was just sort of like, why do you keep telling me how big this guy is? Let me form my own opinion. I think that tends to fuck people a little bit.

[01:23:08] And when Gerard Depardieu's whole thing is so strange to begin with, you're like, are you tricking me? The hair is just, I don't know. You don't like my hair? I don't like it. He's too mushroomy for you? He's too mushroomy. So, Annie McDowell, he took a year to find her. Not that she was nobody, but like, you know, like he auditioned people for a long time, but he liked her. I assume he saw Sex Lies or was it? Yeah. And Gerard loved Sex Lies and videotape. Weird. Which parts of that title do you think he liked?

[01:23:37] He was like, he was like, I too film. I love to lie. He might have added like five more words to that title. So, Peter Weir really enjoyed making the film. It had final cut. He had a great, you know, incredible amount of control. Katzenberg did want the ending to change and was basically like, if you reshoot it, if they don't separate, if they humiliate the wreckage immigration officer, I think you're going to make like double your money.

[01:24:06] And Weir was just like, I thought about it, but I was just like, no way. Like the ending is the ending. Like, which I also think Katzenberg's kind of wrong. I agree. I mean, maybe. Jeffrey Katzenberg is wrong. Jeffrey Katzenberg makes the sort of wrong decision. Has he? I mean, what about if he comes up with an idea for vertical short form? It's crazy you say that, Esther. I'm reading here on the dossier.

[01:24:31] He also pitched to Peter Weir, what if the ending is five minutes long, doesn't play at the end of the movie. It plays as the final installment of a Quibi original you can only watch after sundown. He was right about many things, obviously. He was once a very savvy executive. I mean, I guess he's just kind of going for the like, you need a happy ending for good word of mouth. But I think the green card ending leaves you feeling pretty satisfied. It's very satisfying. You're like, they're going to figure it out.

[01:25:00] For all my quibbles with Depardieu and how I couldn't, I was just like, oh, I love it. Like, I love the ending so much, you know, and it's perfect. I mean, I think that's another rom-com thing that we like talk about a lot. It's the perfect sort of like bittersweet ending that I think some of my favorite rom-coms do that it's like, you know. And you're watching the whole movie thinking, all right, so what are they going to pick here for the end?

[01:25:27] Like, you know, like what, you know, because like, you know, the sort of roads this movie can take and they pick the right one. Like, that's how I feel watching. I'm like, yes, good. Good job, guys. Because I think, and again, this is sort of the thing that I like about the movie. It's all of these beats that don't happen exactly the way you would expect them and don't feel perfectly tied up in a bow. They don't have like some amazing sex and then are like, oh, I have to be with you. And they aren't like, and they don't get their happy, their perfect happy ending, but they

[01:25:57] do find that they're in love with each other and he does have to go back to France. Like, it's just like, it's the, it's sort of the big moment is he gets it wrong. Yes. You know, in the interview. And that's when he realizes like, oh, but there are actually a million things I do love about her and who cares that I would love to call up Bob right now and ask him if you could name the face cream that I use. I feel like, I don't know, it's like in a blue container. I don't know the fucking name of it. Yeah.

[01:26:23] I mean, it's funny that like that is the one it hinges on where like an obvious. And then, I mean, his bigger fuck up is that he says that he, I memorized all of them. I think that's how he messes up. If he had just not remembered it, he would have been fine. But it is funny that it's like, I guarantee you, Bob would not be able to name the face cream that I use. Hans Zimmer did the score. Young Hans Zimmer in his sort of more synthy days. Very good score, in my opinion.

[01:26:49] But the composer does have a little bit of that Hans Zimmer sort of exoticism that people sometimes get mad at them. Well, his early scores were very world music. Totally. Totally. Do you revisit this score? Yeah. Absolutely. Really? Those early Zimmer scores are really good. Rain Man, this, there's a third one. Like, I'm a big fan of Lion King, you know. It's just visualizing you. The Lion King. Putting, throwing this on. Remember when Jeffrey Katzenberg almost got bit by a lion? Yes.

[01:27:19] I mean, no, but yes. Do you know this? Do you know this video? I do. Yeah. Wait, wait. I want Ben to finish his thought and then. Oh, I just find it very weird to be like, what did I do today? I listened to green card soundtrack. That's why we love David, though. There is a video. I'm doing a thumbs up. Of a promotional event for the Lion King where they brought out a real lion. Or maybe it was like the illustrator. I can't remember exactly what it was. Somebody can correct me.

[01:27:46] But basically, the long story short of this is that it seems like Jeffrey Katzenberg might get eaten by a lion in this video. Right. The lion gets aggressive. The lion gets aggressive towards Jeffrey Katzenberg. So, when this film, I want to say, begins with R.I.P. to her. We love her. We miss her. The nine train. A little shot of a nine train disappearing. Yeah, you need to tell us about the nine train. You don't know about the nine train. I don't know about the nine train. You're kind of pre-nine train. Back in the day, Ben.

[01:28:16] I was born in 1990. Yeah, the nine train was still existing then, but it was on its way out. So, back in the day, Ben, you know on the 7th Avenue line, the red lines of the subway, right? There's the one, two, and the three, right? The two and the three are express. In Manhattan, the one is the local. There used to be a nine train on that line, too. Weird. And it was a local as well. It was the same as the one in every way, except... There's no eight train. There used to be an eight train, Ben, long ago. What the hell? Yes, there used to be an eight train as well in the Bronx.

[01:28:45] Let's not talk about that right now. But the nine was skip-stopped with the one north of 96th Street. So, like, when the one is on its own. And the idea was just like, oh, a rush hour, like, just to speed things along. These trains kind of, like, hop. And it was too annoying. And I think people who lived in Upper Manhattan in the Bronx didn't even like it that much. For me, who lived on that line, but not in the skip-stop area, it did nothing different from a one train. But I was just still always different on a nine. I was like, look, a nine train.

[01:29:15] It was so funny to get to the platform and be like, what's here? One, two, three. Okay, cool. I bet I can guess what the fourth train is. Nine! Skipping all the way over. Yes. So, when Peter Weir, this movie has great New York, I would say, energy in general. I would agree. Is navigating a subway station. He hears a chorus of voices led by the unhoused singer Harry Stewart and the Erasmus group, sorry, the Emmis group singers named after Harlem's Emmis house for the unhoused.

[01:29:44] And he was like, I love this. I want this to be in the film. So, that's why those guys are in the movie. For the opening. Yeah. I do want to call out because I know what happened while I was in the bathroom. Uh-oh. I do think Hans Zimmer's score in this is great. I agree. Oh, yeah. We already talked about that. I just wanted to second the... Did you hear us or did you just think... I heard David saying this was an early Hans Zimmer score. It's a great score. I think a lot of the early Hans Zimmer comedy scores have aged to varying degrees. Yes. Some of them age better than others.

[01:30:12] I was just talking with Esther about his kind of early like world music vibe. But also... Hey, he's still doing it. Dune. Right. I think this is like kind of one of the better comedy era Zimmer scores. I like that era of his career. It's interesting to hear it now, obviously, knowing what he like turned into. Correct. Which turned into something interesting as well. It's just like completely different. But this is like... It's so much my problem of the modern rom-com, which barely exists,

[01:30:40] but what does exist feels like it is just trying to be one step elevated above the like Hallmark Christmas movie churn, which is this could have been shot anywhere and we're pretending it's anywhere else. Yeah. It's like a place of specificity, from the feeling of like neighborhood haunts and like the rhythm of whatever the fucking city or the town is.

[01:31:06] And like just the fact that I put this movie on and immediately it's like subway drummer, people getting on and off the train. No, I mean... I'm like, this is set in a place. And it speaks to very quickly what is kind of actually the biggest point this movie is making. We talk a lot about the cinema of men will literally blank to avoid going to therapy. One of your favorite, right, tropes. Yeah. This is... And I think this movie's dead on the money. Can I say it? Yeah.

[01:31:35] Women will literally get married for... To get a great apartment. I think it's... Women will literally do anything to get the right apartment. Amen. And women in New York City. Yeah, I was going to ask. In particular. Would you get green card married to get that apartment? To... Oh, fucking... And that's... Because my answer is... I would marry DeVard you now! Same. Same. It would pay his legal fees. Same. But that's... That has to be specified. That's the thing this movie gets so right that has only... He's a terrible person.

[01:32:02] ...aged better with every successive year. The opposite of Gerard Depardieu who ages worse every year. Yeah. Is you're just like... Yeah. Yeah. So now... You could justify almost anything in the reality of the movie if there's an apartment this good on the market. Now, I did look it up and it is... It's not real. It's a soundstage. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. But imagine if that happened. Can I tell you? Is there a greenhouse and an apartment? I mean, maybe somewhere. Yeah. Like, so I'll tell you. The first garden that they used that's a community plot, that's a real place.

[01:32:31] That, you know. There was another garden that's like a treed garden, right? The one in B.B. Neuer's parents. Correct. That, they basically moved a bunch of crabapple trees in Central Park's Conservatory Garden, which is on 5th and 105th, over to like a sort of terrace to create that kind of like... Yeah. Fakey. It's sort of like the Frick or whatever. Like this weird kind of indoor. Yeah, it looks sort of... It looks so, yeah. The main apartment, obviously... It looks like the part of MoMA outside of the modern.

[01:33:02] Right. Yes. Yes. Like that, too. Exactly. And the main apartment, yes. They built it on a soundstage because they were like, we are building paradise here. Like, it's such a specific vibe. It's supposed to be basically out of her dreams with the arch and the wall fountain and the tiles and all this stuff. But very cool. I'm sure there are places in New York, yes. Like weird... Don't you think so, Esther? I'm sure. Like weird pre-war buildings that are like, oh yeah, there's the weird conservatory apartment.

[01:33:30] I love that it's also not just, man, there's a great apartment. She wants it really badly. No, it's really important to... That it's so specifically tied to her interests and her behaviors. To her interests, yeah. To her... And I love the fucking co-op board, by the way, being like... The one lady who's like, well, I like the couple from the bank. And the other guy's like, she's a horticulturalist. She'll probably be good for this place. I mean, my best friends often mentioned on this podcast, Sophie Fader and Hawken Lindsey.

[01:33:56] Uh, he is a ceramicist. Cool. And it's like... So he lives in a kiln? Living in New York City, he's constantly having to like calculate everything based on what kind of work he could legally do within a New York living space. Right. Am I allowed to have X in this house? Right. Right. Sorry. I literally just Googled greenhouse, New York greenhouse apartments. And there was... There's a street easy thing.

[01:34:25] And honestly, this is like... It looks like a dream apartment? Yeah. And like, I mean, it's very expensive, but it's not as expensive as I thought it would be. Okay. Can I ask a couple of questions? Because you're trying to figure out why it's so cheap. Upper West Side. Upper West Side. You're trying to figure out why it's so cheap. Washer dryer included? Yeah. Walk up? Um, yes. In unit Depardieu? No. Because that would drive the price down. Yeah, I was going to say that knocks about $200,000 off your list.

[01:34:54] If there is a non-negotiable... Unfortunately, a French ogre lives here. In unit Depardieu. They might pay you to live there. They're like... Yes. He's just there being like, Oh, your coffee is bad. And I like butter. I don't want to keep going back to the same joke. Well, but it is crazy how much he looks like Shrek. He is Shrek. He is Shrek. And he only becomes more and more Shrek. Do you know who voiced Shrek in France? It was a Gerard Depardieu. No, Alain Shabbat. Because they were like,

[01:35:24] That's too fucking on the nose. It's too on the bulbous nose if we hire Gerard. Does the French guy voicing Shrek do a regional accent? You know, like I saw that. He says he does. He does the French version of Scottish. What's the French version of a Scottish accent? We're back to French stereotypes. We're back to this. Yeah. I believe he does. You know Alain Shabbat. Sure, Alain Shabbat! Yeah, I mean, sure. I mean, I don't know him personally. Really? You should meet Alain. It'd be funny if I did. Yeah. Let me see if I can find what kind of accent. Keep going through the dossier.

[01:35:54] One of my favorite films that Alain Shabbat made, where he was, because he would direct and star, is just called this. Roar! Not kidding. That's what it's called. It's called Roar? What's it about? I don't know. Sort of looks like holes. Okay. Roar! He also made a movie called DDA about a dog. Sounds great. It's a dog who turns into a person. He plays the dog. Sounds like good shit. Made one trillion dollars in France. DDA is on their money.

[01:36:24] Shrek 5 got moved. Yes. Right? To summer of 27. I think they had to redo some of the voices or something, or maybe redo like... People thought they were redoing the animation because people didn't like the new character designs. Oh, interesting. I think it also might be script things. They're taking some big swings on this one. Was it that people figured out what Shrek 5 is about, didn't like it, and so now they're scrambling? It's maybe... Interesting. I don't know. I heard what Shrek 5 was about a couple of years ago. What you described to me didn't sound great.

[01:36:53] It was a big swing. Okay. It was wild. Well, off mic, you gotta tell me. I will. I could see them either panicking and going, do we have to rethink this? Or saying, if we're going to do this, we have to get it right. Yeah. So, the plot of Green Card, which is a tidy, you know, hour 45, this film, and it's a really, it's a film with,

[01:37:23] you know, some great, it's got a great cast, but like pretty much all of the supporting players, it's like a couple scenes. But Prosky comes in, just knocks it out of the fucking heart. One time, he must have had more, like... I'm doing Prosky right now. He must have had more scenes. I'm sorry. I can't believe you broke the law. His character's name is Bronte's lawyer. We should mention... Her name is Bronte Parrish. Because all of her... Yes, and Del. Because her dad named all of her siblings after authors. So it's Bronte, Austin...

[01:37:53] Austin, Elliot. Elliot, right. Collette. Collette. After female authors. Yeah. And then who's the fifth one? I don't fucking know. Oh, Kuntz. King Kuntz. Yeah, there you go. My name is Kuntz. Kuntz Parrish. I like to pick up a trashy airport paperback. Nothing wrong with it. Oh, fun read. Yeah, Robert Prosky crushes, I would say, in his one scene. You've got the great John Spencer

[01:38:21] as like a nice horticulturalist. You've got Lois Smith as Bronte's mother. Yes. Like when's she bad? As you mentioned before, Neelix, Dr. Neelix. Do you spot Andow? Andow is Peggy. Yeah, quick Andow. A young Andow. Not a bald one. Nope. Nope. Quite a head of hair on this one. You're right. What if... And I'm sure that bald Andow, who I know... Friend of the show. Yes. Has interacted with Andow in some way at some... Right at this point? I'm not actually sure. But like, what if one day

[01:38:50] Andow does take it all off for a role? Just to find... Just to kind of complete the circle. Yeah. You know, it shows that... Like, does a THX remake or something? Like, something where she's bald. I don't know. I mean, my favorite performance in this movie. Yes? Bebe Neuwirth. Bebe amazing. God. Just... And it's... Also, can we just talk about... illegally hot. That's the thing. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Can we talk about how Bebe Neuwirth is the hottest person I want to talk about Bebe. Ever. And I just want her to, throw me into, like, a sewer

[01:39:20] and just, like, spit on me. Also, she has these little, like, rat earrings. Did you clock her? I did clock her cool rat earrings. The earrings are incredible. I clocked everything that was going on here. What? So, like, what she... Because she's... This is her second film role. Period? Very small. Obviously, she'd been on Cheers for years in that kind of, like, quasi-supporting role. You know, like, sort of quasi-guest, quasi-supporting, you know. She went from... She's got, like, two standalone guest appearances.

[01:39:50] Then they decide to bring her back. Then she becomes a recurring. Then she becomes a regular. And then she goes back down to recurring. Right. She got... She wins two Emmys? Uh, two Emmys. Does she have both of them by the time she does this movie? She has one. And she's got another one to come. And she has one more the next year. That's what's crazy. But she had already won a Tony for Sweet Charity. I mean, she's a big theater actor. But she won a second Emmy for the final season when she demoted herself to recurring. Yeah.

[01:40:20] But she did enough episodes to count. Back then, they were very, like, fungible about it, I think. Uh, she has two Tonys, of course. Uh, can you tell me her second Tonys for? Chicago. Of course. Chicago. I recently saw a clip from the current, like, a current production of Chicago. I don't know who's in it right now. It is the secret life of a Mormon wife. Oh, I see. Yeah. I was kind of getting the vibe where I was like, if I paid for this, I think I would call it the Better Business Bureau. No, I mean... It looked pretty shocking. Yeah. Because, like,

[01:40:49] she's obviously doing nothing and the other ones are like, the other ones are just around and they're, like, flapping their arms around. They were on E-Track or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. What's going on over there? Is it time to wrap it up? I think it's time to wrap it up. But I think they keep making money by, like... It's very cheap to make. ...by... and throwing all these, like, reality TV stars in there. I also feel like all of their runs are pretty short where they're like, if one of them sucks, they're out in 10 days and maybe the next one's better. And then the other thing about Chicago is there are, like,

[01:41:18] standbys, like, who are... Right, they can cycle in. ...have done it for years. Like, I believe, like, Charlotte D'Ambouin does it, who's, like, a legendary dancer and, like, does it all the time. Like, there are people that can always do it and Bianca Maricott, like, there are people that can always do it and they always just throw them back in. But also, like, do twice a year, do they pick up the red phone and go, Wayne Brady, we need you back? Yes, I believe so. We should get Wayne Brady on this show. At the King of Podcasts. Remember when he crushed it on Comedy Bang Bang? Yeah. He was so good.

[01:41:48] Wayne Brady's awesome. Plugging that Headgum show that no one listened to. But he was so good on Comedy Bang Bang. His WTF is amazing. Back to BB. Yeah, BB. The big, big, big. It's not like this is her best work ever, but it is such a great time capsule of BB at kind of peak power. Also, when she is, like, when they go over to dinner at her parents' house and she shows up and she's just, like, legs for days and it is so... And you're just, like, well, everyone should just, like, fuck BB

[01:42:17] because she's the hottest person that has ever lived. She's, like, two foot negative five. Yeah. Yeah. She's a small woman. She's so cool. And yet she appears in anything and you're, like, this is the funniest, smartest, coolest, and hottest person who has ever lived. Very, like, debonair. Very funny. Very wry. She's very, very... She's very, very, very, very cool. Also, you just want to hang out with her. She's so fun. Like, this character, you're sort of... You sort of expect, like, oh, is she going to be sort of, like, a villain? And she's like, nah, she's just, like, a fun hang.

[01:42:46] Esther, that's exactly what I like about it. Yeah, is she going to cause trouble? Right. Right. You're like, is she going to make a pass to Depardieu and it's going to cause all kinds of problems? She's sort of just like, no, she just likes to party. She's got rich parents and she's an artist and she just likes to party. I think there's a really... another real positive function of her character, which is, you're set up to think, oh, she's going to stir some shit or she's going to try to steal Depardieu and she's going to make a bigger mess or any of this stuff. No, it's like, you understand that this is Annie McDowell's closer friend,

[01:43:16] that this is someone who can call Annie McDowell out on her shit, knows her well, cares about her, and also is like, this guy's interesting. The co-sign of, I don't know, there's something kind of going on there. It's less about that she's going to make a move on Depardieu and more that it forces Annie McDowell to reconsider. Wait, you're interested in him? Like, maybe I should take a second look at this. Yeah. And I also feel like, I mean, it's another way in which the movie sort of subverts the tropes that you're expecting, which is,

[01:43:45] you know, a hot, brassy lady comes along and steals the guy and then he realizes that's not right for her, you know, like, that's not right for him. And it's like, no, she's just, again, she's hot and fun and having a great time. Do you know what this movie feels like to me? It's like eating a birthday cake and then being told after the fact, this cake is entirely vegan, there were no eggs, right? Like, it's soybean frosting. And you're just like, huh, it tasted good.

[01:44:16] I didn't question it at all. And the more I study how you were able to make this without doing the usual things, the more I have to, like, applaud you. Right. Without doing, as Esther said, like, the tropey things. Right. You would imagine if I told you it's about a green card marriage and then they have to pretend to like each other and then they do like it. It removes all the unhealthy ingredients in a way that is so unshowy that you're taking it for granted of like, yeah, it's like doing a rom-com thing. And you're like, no, it's actually like harder. I also think

[01:44:45] the other thing is when they're studying, you know, when they're doing sort of the part where they're studying each other and studying up on, there's something very earnest about it. Like, especially, there's something very, you know, they do the montage of them taking photos, but there's something so, sort of like the genuine facts of like, how do you get to know a person? As opposed to the sort of Hollywoodized version of like, let's just blast through this and like, make it all a joke.

[01:45:14] There's something very genuine about like, the way, you know, though I did, I don't know if that is Gerard Depardieu's actual handwriting, but it looks like a serial killer. interesting. I think. His personality doesn't suggest anything like that in his sort of backstory way he behaves. I think you're right though, Esther, that like, this movie deprives its characters of kind of like, snappy, small talk, get to know you banter

[01:45:43] because of the language divide. So it's so often them communicating through actions or struggling to get the other one to understand their meaning or then like, basically leapfrogging to deeper, more direct questions because the formality of needing to study for this test means that you're just like, asking things you would never ask on a date. But I will say that's also the thing that unsettles me a little bit about it too, which is, like there's something unnerving about it to...

[01:46:13] Like, what's the deal with this guy? Yeah, like what's the deal with this guy? It's also just his presence. He's so, in addition to being like, you know, his face is sort of funny and his haircut is insane. Like, he's so looming. He's so sort of terrifying and, you know. Seems kind of quick to anger even though he doesn't explode that many times. And he's got some level of criminal history that he explains as like, boyish shenanigans. Yeah. But also this series of tattoos that are all these kind of like, impactful moments

[01:46:42] of his life that he can't really unpack. I mean, there is a thing that like, doesn't, never is resolved which is, you know, which is sort of scary where he has the knife and it's like, you draw the knife on one side if it's like, the knife is drawn and then you, then you put it back in its shaft once you've gotten your reject. Did I say it? You said shaft. Okay, I think, sorry. John Shaft, of course. Yeah, you put it back in its hilt? No? Sheath, is that what I would say. Um,

[01:47:12] once you've gotten the revenge and he hasn't gotten the revenge, so it's like, I'm kind of giving you a Sean Connery Chicago way monologue here. Think about it. It's just like, there is a sense of danger to him. Mm-hmm. And, I am not opposed to, like, rom-com leading men having that sense of danger. Yes. But, maybe it's just the Depardieu of it all. You guys are getting hung up on the real guy, which I understand. Yeah. But,

[01:47:42] it's not just the real guy and his real actions. It is like, what is his energy on screen? And I do think, Esther, there's something to, perhaps, in this type of character, often you cast a charming person and have them as an actor work to affect a layer of edge on top of that that can then melt away. And Depardieu is the opposite side of the equation, which is, here's a guy who feels a little dangerous, and he's working to, like,

[01:48:12] show you the charm inside of it. But, so the edge never melts away. But it's not really, you know, it's not like a Heathcliff thing of, like, this is a monster that she must tame. It doesn't hang out with the Calico cats or anything. That's so true. Yeah. Here's the thing about that joke, which every person I know has made, or at least just three men that I know have made with the new Weathering Heights. It's the joke of the season. It's the joke of the season. I think we maybe have to have a moratorium

[01:48:41] on that joke. Wow, you're calling for an end to Heathcliff joke. You're saying specifically Calico? No, I think you did a good job with it. I'm just saying that like... Okay, okay, all right, all right, Because the other men you're talking about, were they just making jokes about Heathcliff the cat, or did they go for a specific Calico? I have not heard the Calico angle yet. No, I haven't heard the cat, and so I'm fine with it. I just think everyone thinks they're so fucking clever making a joke about the fucking cat, but, you know.

[01:49:10] What if Emily Bronte was hearing about this? How do you think Emily Bronte would feel about Heathcliff the cat? Oh, the cat, I think she would be bemused. I don't think she'd mind the cat. Guys, what's up? I'm sorry. What's going on? I need to... They're not called the Calico cats, are they? Retire Bip myself. It's not Calico. You're hoisted by your own... You're hoisting yourself to the ceiling? He's not Calico, he's orange. No, no, no, but there's... The Calico critters, the line of toys, the little fuzzy animals. Yeah.

[01:49:40] I was confusing them with who Heathcliff hangs out with, who are the Cat-A-Lac cats. Cat-A-Lac cats. This is from the Heathcliff, like, animated series. Yeah, the one that was recorded while Mel Blanc was dying. Right. They kind of, like, flew a drone into his hospital room and were like, I don't know, say some shit into the safer corner. What's up, dog? Wow, he really was on his way out. The Cadillac cats. Anyway,

[01:50:09] sorry to derail us. Everyone is banned from making this joke now. from making this joke. You're right. I do think there is a thing where if I had seen this movie when I was younger prior to knowing the whole Depardieu of it all, I think I might have been more purely charmed and just been able to get over my shit with that, you know? And now, and it's, again, like, I think I'm pretty good as a, you know,

[01:50:39] watcher of things to be like, to separate myself from, to put myself in the time period in which it was made and to, like, I mean, like, it's something you have to do for your job and, like, all this stuff. But, obviously, I do think if I had seen this when I was just, before, I knew all about, maybe if I was just an American moviegoer in 1990 who was like, I want to see this in Cyrano and I'm just, like, charmed. Well, I think it's like, he's just different.

[01:51:09] It's just like, there's nobody like him. There's nobody like him and it's so weird. And it is, I do think that is a thing to the movie's credit, which is, like, you can't, you can't, like, recast it with someone else. You can't, and, like, the movie, but also, that the movie is not like, this is a stunning, like, fucking babe. It's more like, this is, what is this? What is this guy? I gotta look at this from ten angles. Like, what's going on with this guy? Yeah. But it's just, the whole thing is that, like, but there is a whole thing

[01:51:38] where his energy is so off in a strange way where, like, like, when he goes and plays, when he's asked to play the piano and he just, like, bangs on the keys and then plays, like, a lovely thing. That scene kind of rocks. It rocks, but it's so weird. Like, the first scene where they go to the, was that a real restaurant they meant to look that up? The All Nations restaurant? I couldn't, I didn't think so. I couldn't quite tell what the vibe was. Where it's like, you just are like, hey, we have the Swiss dish

[01:52:07] and we have the, you know. But let's even zoom out here for a second, right? The piano scene. We can dig in the piano scene as kind of emblematic of the whole thing. This movie's set up on the idea that he wants to become an American citizen because of the opportunities that could provide him in his career as a composer. And whenever she sort of asks him about it because his English is so broken, he responds strangely. And I watched the movie the first time and like, is the composer thing a lie? Right.

[01:52:37] Is he truly making this up? Right. Because we don't really have any sense of him. Is he making it up? Her, we know she wants to fucking have a husband so she can get this apartment. This board won't approve of a modern woman living single. That doorman, what a fucking rat. I don't go for this women's lip thing. I hate it. I hate the guy. Also, that is what's sort of so strange about it is that like, is he a composer? Is he not? Is he actually, you know, they talk about how he's, you know, he's got stuff in his past. Like, is he actually trying

[01:53:06] to be in America? Because he's on the run. Like, he is a composer but there's no sort of, he gets fired from his restaurant job and he's like, well, that's fine. You know, he says I quit. Yeah, and he says I quit. Everything's a little, everything feels a little like he's lying to you just in his persona and then that never fully, he is a composer. Right. Some impression. Can we unpack this scene for a moment? So like, B.B. Neuwirth takes a liking to him,

[01:53:36] brings him to the party, right? Yes. When you're meeting B.B. and she's so big, part of you is going like, is she doing this to make her friend jealous? Yeah. Or is she just sort of such a like wild She's such a fun gal. pre-rolling that she's like, I don't know, this guy's weird. Let me figure out what his fucking thing is. Everyone at the party is kind of a little confused but like, oh, wow, a Frenchman. How interesting. Comes up that he's a composer, they ask him to sit at the piano, he sits there very intensely and then just starts like mashing the keys with his fists. To the point that you're like,

[01:54:05] he's been rumbled. Like, you know, he's making something up because he doesn't know how to do this initially. That's what it feels like. Right. And then you're like, it's just like, there are moments of tonality within it. I still don't know if that was supposed to be a real piece. I don't either. I think it is. But you don't totally know. Is it him saying, fuck you? Is it, this is the kind of composing I do? You don't know. And you wonder like, is this him revealing that he's never touched a piano before in his fucking life?

[01:54:35] And then he like, comes around and like, plays this beautiful piece and does the spoken word poetry over that is like, translated in real time. And it's Depardieu in close up while playing a piano, basically looking down the barrel of the lens with tears in his eyes. And I'm like, this is undeniably effective. Right. Like, yes, the whole movie is built around this, which is, you're just like, why am I drawn into this? Right? This guy has not made sense to me up until this moment and something is happening here that's emotionally affecting. And B.B. Neuwirth goes,

[01:55:05] I think you just got your flowers. And that's what happens. He fucking, she got the trees because whatever Gerard Depardieu just did charmed the shit out of everybody. Then like 30 minutes later when they're going through the studying for the test, he brings up or she repeats, they filled in this information at some point, that he stopped playing music because he was in love with a woman. They got married. She died. And he couldn't hear the music anymore. And he realizes the way to explain in this interview

[01:55:34] why they fell in love to make the case in the most ecstatic way without overly explaining that their love is real is to say, when I met her, I heard the music again. Which is so kind of beautiful and poetic that you see her get charmed by that even if it's only a strategic lie. The notion that he could think that way starts to open her up to him a little bit. It is the rom-com leap that I think you have to make with a lot of rom-coms which is like, if this were real life,

[01:56:03] how would I react to this? And there's something for me that is still I don't, by the end, I get there. But for a lot of it, I don't know if I fully, there's something still like, that creeps me out about the mystery that is written into the character. And the fact that

[01:56:33] even at the end, it still feels like I don't fully know this guy. And she is willing, and she has fallen for him and he's written her this thing and she's willing to do it. But like... But we don't even know what she's totally willing to do. Yeah, I mean, yeah. They're just... They know... Well, and that's the thing. They know something's going on that they can't ignore anymore like in the last scene. To make a very dumb comparison point... Make sure this is very dumb. Please. If you were to try to watch The Cosby Show and apply... Oh, boy. Let me say this. Let me say this.

[01:57:03] Let me say this. Let me say this. Go ahead. And try to apply cognitive dissonance and go look at just this show, history, nostalgia for me reminds me, right? You are in an episode of The Cosby Show pretty unlikely to butt up against something that directly reminds you of everything you now know about Bill Cosby. I'm not even... At this point, I'm not even talking about the Depardieu of it all. Genuinely. I'm genuinely talking about the way this character is written. This is my problem. Yes.

[01:57:33] Is that there is still something that feels odd about him and off about him in a way that feels either potentially dangerous or potentially... If David's shaking his head. I'm not with you on this. Yeah. Let me finish my bridge here because I think Esther and I are feeling the same thing, right? Which is like, if Cosby Show episodes... Oh, my God. Stop it. I don't want to talk about Bill Cosby. Honestly, I think you have to stop. You have to...

[01:58:02] I appreciate you defending me, but also I don't want to hear about Bill Cosby. Because this is not defending me or you. This is me just like how I think about it, right? Okay. If Cosby episodes had him regularly going like, I'm going on a date tonight, I'd be like, well, now I can't stop thinking about what would happen on that date, right? And I think similarly... No! No! No! That's not what I'm doing. No, I just think the fact that there is mystery to this character and the mystery is coded as being a little bit dark, it's hard not to let

[01:58:31] your brain go to darker things because of the guy who's playing. I don't even think that's it. I just think there is... I understand what you're saying, Esther. Yeah. I don't think I have to say it again because I'm just like... Yeah, and we can just agree to disagree. I just... I think there is something in the writing of the character that leaves me at arm's length. Ben, you got to decide. You got to weigh in your take on Green Card, which we haven't heard yet. Anyway, it's still Mary Him for the Apartment. Yeah. I mean... Did you like this movie? I mean, you haven't weighed in. It was okay. Fair enough.

[01:59:02] I don't... I'm not a huge rom-com guy. Yeah, what's your favorite rom-com? I have no idea. What? I guess I never thought about this. Yeah. Yeah. You never really talk up a rom-com. No. Nothing comes to mind. Nothing comes to mind? Nothing. Not a single thing. No. Fair enough. I'll look. Maybe there's one. But here... There's got to be one. But here, this is what I'll say. I watch Dave Perdue and I'm like...

[01:59:31] There's definitely Moments 3 is effective. No question. For sure. Yeah. He's got a great face, great nose. Big old nose? I don't see the Riz. Mm-hmm. I just... It's not... This is the question of society, really. At the time and now. The hair is such a problem. He looks like an old-ass painting come to life. What you just described is to me is the Riz. Really? Well, yeah, because how many people look like that? I know,

[02:00:00] but it's like... He should be wearing one of those Shakespearean weird collars. Well, he did a lot of the movie or two where he's done that. Right. Right. I mean, if you want to see him in period dress, certainly. Allow me to speed around a couple things. Yes, please. One, this is kind of... You're allowed. Thank you. I appreciate it. No Cosby. That's true. With one corollary. Okay, allow me to speed around one thing. Yes, go ahead. No, I'm joking. First of all, this is a really strong

[02:00:30] Invisible Craft movie where he has done so much at this point that he knows exactly how to service whatever type of film he's making that having been said, there are two camera moves in this movie that I thought were so fucking classy. Can I guess one? Yes. Is it the... What are those things called? In the door. Oh, well, that's good. Yes. The kind of peephole in the door and the click. Yeah. That's a great shot. No, it's two moves. Classy camera moves. Yeah, where I was like,

[02:00:59] this is using the movement of the camera for storytelling and for emotional connection in a way that is so unshowy. One of them is when he's talking to Annie McDowell's dad, her parents show up unexpected and he takes on the role of the handyman to justify why he's there. And her dad, you feel like, is sniffing him out as a fake. Annie McDowell's saying, go, you're done. And he wants to stay because clearly he's interested in her enough that he's kind of curious to secure her parents

[02:01:28] to eavesdrop in on this. And the dad goes into the kitchen after him and he's going in, you worry, motivated by suspicion of who is this fake. When in fact, what's motivating him is I kind of sense the heart of an artist inside you. I sense an artistic spirit inside you. You know, I used to work jobs like this when I was writing poetry. What are you really? I'm a composer. They're having this whole talk. They're having this male bonding thing.

[02:01:56] He notices that her dad has his arm on a table atop a bunch of papers including their marriage license. And Depardieu's like, I gotta get that fucking away from him. So that he doesn't see and this whole thing doesn't explode. And he tries to grab it and it kind of is too aggressive. The dad freaks out a little bit or is a little shaken. Falls to the ground. They both go to pick it up and it's a Polaroid from their faked honeymoon. They stand on the roof

[02:02:26] of this apartment that is absolutely worth marrying Gerard Depardieu to get with skis and they fake like three different vacations they've taken together put in the scrapbook. And the camera move is these two men are both holding the Polaroid on opposite sides and it's basically the POV of her dad. And the camera just like dollies up with Depardieu of the two of them the feeling of maintaining eye contact as they're holding this object

[02:02:56] that they know says a tremendous amount that now needs to be acknowledged in some way. And Depardieu holds that close up really fucking well and it's that feeling of you are stuck in a moment as you two would say that you can't get out of. Right. That's so true. And then there's another one which is when It's a beautiful day. He basically drops Annie McDowell off with a fuckhead boyfriend. Yeah. Greg. What's his pants? Phil! Edelman. Depardieu's like halfway down the block with envy realizing for the first time

[02:03:26] he's jealous he is and rather than walk the opposite way as he should he walks towards them to basically challenge her. Are you going to break reality on this? Or are you going to treat me like a stranger? Either way I get a closer view of whatever's going on with you. And the camera tracking with him as he does that is like really really I think you're I think you're speaking to what Weir brings to so many of the movies we've discussed so far and will continue to discuss which is that kind of like quiet classy

[02:03:56] non-showy but stylish like visual storytelling. It is like what does this moment need to convey? Right. And what is the best technique to get that feeling across in the story? And it's like not as slick and over the top or like whatever you know like it's not going to pop in the way that certain big stylish filmmakers do. Here's another thing I like about this movie that I feel like doesn't happen often enough. It's like a rom-com that isn't very funny. No. It's a good point.

[02:04:25] It would be false to categorize it as a rom-drom. Right. But it's certainly not like a screwball movie with a bunch of lines. It is funny. It has jokes. More than anything it has a sustained like comedic wavelength to it. But I think it's very concerned It's not over the top. It doesn't want to break its own reality. Well and the reality of it is something interesting that I wanted to bring up which is that it is very rooted in like 1990 in 1990 New York and some of that some of that

[02:04:54] feels a little creaky now. You know the I think the talk about I mean obviously some is just the time periods but like the garden argument and like the under oh the underprivileged kids we just bring such joy to their lives of chaos. I mean it's also funny this Lower East Side and that you know Even just this energy of you know some people don't eat meat. Right. And also some there's this moment You will have fish of course. No I don't eat that either.

[02:05:24] There's also a moment where she tells him he's being very right wing right now. Because I am no wing you are wing. Yeah. And I don't want to pay taxes to be clear. And I pee any airplane I want and not in the bathroom. No no in fact I avoid it. The cockpit. Your cup of coffee. The aisle. It does it is a version of New York that is very rooted in the real world of the time

[02:05:54] as opposed to even you know Pretty Woman or whatever. Well Pretty Woman of course but like you know even the Nora New York which is its own form of But she's got this sort of snow globe She's got a snow globe of New York. Plus of a curated bubble. I mean even just down to like starting with like fucking subway musicians and shit. It's like this is like real New York we're not doing your kind of And some of it feels a little clunky but I think it's interesting. I think the weird

[02:06:23] thing about rom-coms is there are a good number that have this feeling of you know you know David put it I believe his letterbox which I saw but like the gentleness and like I do think there are there are a couple that you know get this like it's not really that funny but they get the romantic ness right and they're really

[02:06:51] tied into the characters they are well observed yeah my letterbox review refers to a list of gentle movies that I curated for my wife after our first child was born where she was basically like I cannot watch any movies with a lot of like peril or stress and certainly no like danger for two children and so I like kind of like I was like alright let's really narrow the focus to movies where it's like pretty low like stakes a lot of rom-coms obviously but you know some other stuff too yeah 27 dresses uh huh

[02:07:21] where you're just like who gives a shit the whole time but I'm a little worried if she's gonna hit it 28 or not morning glory at the best yeah serendipity the paper I hate serendipity it sucks you hate serendipity I hate serendipity the paper I do think kind of fucking rules the paper is so good the only issue with the paper is that you're like why isn't this a masterpiece agrees yeah because like it's totally good everyone in it's having fun you have fun papers but you're like the ingredients are incredible it's a three star general and the whole time

[02:07:50] you're watching it you're like shouldn't this just be perfect what is it not pulling together David did you only rate Working Girl three and a half stars I don't like that movie that's silly that's silly fucked up I think that movie has huge flaws there are things about it I love I would say Working Girl is kind of the patron saint of the thing we're talking about where it's like a rom-com mostly with dramatic actors who have comedic chops but it's not that funny the comedy is more tonally I mean the funny stuff is like Joan Cusack going wah right

[02:08:19] and it is kind of doing character stuff what no bows Kate and Leopold one of my favorites someone like you a movie for nobody that I have seen like five times Made in Manhattan terrible Forces of Nature hugely underrated Leap Year two weeks notice Fever Pitch the British Leap Year definitely was a modern semi-modern attempt to do this and it's not that good it does have there's no room at the end which we always love you know what's another one you have to sleep in this little bed you know what's another one that I was thinking only you

[02:08:49] is another one that sort of does this that's the Norman Jewison Marissa Tume Robert Downey oh yeah is that good I mean it is it is one of those you have to like get over the hurdle that she seems fucking insane because it's like she's gonna get married even though her destiny is to marry Robert Downey Jr it's like I am trying to remember the exact thing but it's like the night before there's like a fortune teller who's like you're you're definitely

[02:09:19] gonna marry Robert Downey no you're gonna marry somebody with this name oh yeah that's right and so then she goes to like Robert Downey Jr so then she goes to Italy and he thinks trying to find this guy and then Robert Downey Jr lies to her that that's his name and then it's like you know right it sounds pretty good and by good I mean it sounds kind of insane yeah it's very insane and you have to get over the fact that it's like insane and they lie to each other you know all that I wanna no no you finish your thought because I'm pivoting often

[02:09:48] my thing's a little bit of a pivot as well it's a mini pivot I wanna shout out Mary Louise Paulson the only actor in this we haven't cast a true legend like a face you guys all know has a Tony great theater actor she's so good Lois Smith as Annie McDowell's mom yeah we said we shouted everyone else out I think yes Prosky of course we've always but we must give him many flowers it is crazy that he doesn't have one more scene but whatever it is yeah they're probably I don't know it's a pretty

[02:10:17] economical movie it is but the billing on it is also weird like Prosky's like high billing John Spencer's like single card and he's in like one scene but he was sort of a name I guess he's a great actor I have great John Spencer story I'm gonna tell you guys off mic is there anything else we wanna talk about I just wanna do this this soft pivot yes yes what's your soft pivot off of what we were talking about of this kind of modality of rom-com that is one that's really hard to execute and especially now

[02:10:47] we live in a fucking desert where we're only getting like the dumbest most synthetic rom-coms or they have to also be gun movies right like either they're like two dollar movies our buddy Amanda Dobbins on Big Picture was making this case recently where I think they were talking about the people we meet on vacation ugh that movie and was saying how like Hallmark and Netflix have made people think that rom-coms are designed to be really cheap programmers right and she was like you know

[02:11:16] there are entire Instagram accounts now with millions and millions of followers based off of travel and based off of look at how nice the sweater I bought was and this face cream I'm using was right if it's just about the access to the luxury events locations items like people can get that they don't need it delivered to them in a movie and yet if you're not actually putting that level of like production value

[02:11:46] on screen and those things are production value tantamount to like a Marvel movie not investing enough in CGI then you're like then what the fuck am I doing here I mean I think the other issue though is that for me the appeal of the rom-com location is not the same as the appeal of someone's Instagram or TikTok you just want a rom-com to feel like it exists in the real world I think it needs to exist in a specific place

[02:12:16] yeah for the fantasy to work at least for me the fantasy has to be rooted in the reality of a place and has to be rooted in the tangibility of that place and then I can forgive some of the rom-com tropes some of the rom-com ridiculousness that you have to get over because I feel like it's in the real world I was talking about this with somebody another day where it's like I always have trouble like I love rom-coms and I have trouble reading romance

[02:12:45] I've tried rom-com novels and I have trouble with them they seem to be very tropey because they're so tropey and also because the writing's just not good enough for me to like glom onto but also not to dismiss a genre that I know people enjoy yeah again not to dismiss a genre that I know people enjoy I just don't feel like I can latch on in the way and I feel like when I latch on to a rom-com it's because the fizziness is in the dialogue

[02:13:14] is in the writing and the reality is in the world I think it even goes beyond that which is just like for me it's the magic act of the chemistry that two people are creating and then when that's working in tandem with the writing with the location with the supporting cast all that stuff when it feels like you've created an ecosystem but I do agree with you it needs to feel like it is grounded in the specific and the specific can't just be the tropes of the characters or the plot beats

[02:13:44] it also needs to be like a sense of place even if that place is made up or heightened and I feel like we're stuck in a lot of like streaming movies that are based around vacations where the characters have no relationship to the place they're in and the place is being rendered very artificially which is like the worst of all worlds we're in a fake Maui and they just happen to meet here you know and it's like great so now you get a fucking surfing sequence the fuck is this doesn't mean anything and I think

[02:14:14] like you know it's you want some level of like tactility you want a level of like time and place in that specificity a movie I love which I will continue defending for the rest of my fucking life is Materialist which I think has been so wildly misunderstood David is making the rudest face a person could possibly make I don't like them I know you don't you've made that very very clear to me but I think Materialist is I like Materialist I don't love it but I don't

[02:14:43] David is now making the rudest face we sat next to each other yeah we did we sure did and David is making a face that says don't talk to me ever again but I feel Materialist is with like a pitch black heart and a real cynicism more attempting a movie on this kind of wavelength than a proper rom-com it is I think so much of the hyper negative response to Materialist which I fully understand is a very acquired taste movie that's not going to work for most people

[02:15:12] is that it felt like 824 successfully marketed to people were bringing the rom-com back and people were so ready to just see a fun love triangle movie and then it was this kind of movie digging into is all of dating bullshit which then made people feel like you offered me a cookie and then like threw acid in my face they made the money yeah no I was proud of them making their money I was happy I made money I like movies making money I want to hear Ben's rom-com yes well you know I look up this list

[02:15:42] I don't know there's a bunch I just went to IndieWire like 100 top rom-coms and it's it's a reminder that this subgenre what comes to mind is the stuff I remember as a kid that were very like very much leaning into the tropes okay and that's like all of the McConaughey movies yep so I forget when I look and I'm like seeing stuff like Breakfast at Tiffany's I'm like yeah

[02:16:11] I guess McConaughey did a lot of damage the McConaughey run was quite bad and kept getting worse and he knows it no and that era was the death of it it was and it felt it felt very cynical and the like the McConaissance was all about him being like yeah I agree those movies sucked which kind of left those movies even further in the dirt without anyone stepping up to try to reclaim or recontextualize there's also just the big thing which is basically like

[02:16:41] Knocked Up skewed everything when Knocked Up hit people went oh can you make a rom-com that's dude perspective first and has this kind of like harder comedy edge in it and women will be more willing to see a dude rom-com than dudes are to see like a more female perspective driven rom-com which I think had always been seen as a bit of a hurdle and then that leaves you with like nothing when that goes down they started to lose respect for their audience they did

[02:17:10] yeah and they they felt like they had contempt for themselves were like embarrassed to be rom-coms and had to be like but it's not really a rom-com okay but I'll say 500 Days of Summer uh-huh Moonstruck well yes Harold and Maude yeah and then Roman Holiday which I just saw recently I watched with my wife because we were going to Italy and it was great you had a bit of a Roman Holiday we did that's true I mean for the

[02:17:39] first 60-70 years of cinema a like wild percentage of the greatest movies ever made could be classified as rom-coms and it's really when they start to nail the formula down to the wall in the 80s and then like kind of 90s Touchstone like just fucking goes like here it is it's math yeah it's a little bit of a like take actor A actor B you know add situation C there are wildly successful movies that come out of that era and ones that have stood the test of time and even the middling ones are fun to watch now

[02:18:08] but it does feel like you know it's like what fucking happens to Marvel where people go like oh my god I get it I know what's gonna happen I've seen 20 of these they never change I get frustrated like when I was in the process of writing this that like rom-com fans have this idea of the rom-com sometimes as being only this like 2000s sort of there's a lack of history oh shit like they think 27 dresses is the apex right she did have

[02:18:38] 27 dresses she did have 27 dresses and that I find very frustrating and I think the problem with reviving the rom-com a little bit is that that stuff still maybe looms a little too large did you see Your Christmas or Mine what was that no one's seen it Your Christmas or Mine they made a sequel as well you know even thinking about movies that we've covered on the show that came up broadcast news all of the Nora movies Nancy Nancy

[02:19:08] Nancy totally did we like classify them as rom-coms during those series where we like yeah I think you did yeah yeah because I don't I don't know I don't even think of them as really that maybe the Nancy's well and look no I mean Nora is the queen of it like Nora is the always at the top of the list yeah yeah but I don't know why I just I'm like those are funny movies whereas rom-coms I also equate kind of in my head as being like a little bit schlockier but I think that's the problem

[02:19:38] is that that's like the inherent that's what I'm talking about is that it used to be like these have to be high thread count movies like people want to see movie stars looking incredible yeah you know they want to see nice homes and outfits you think that's a huge problem with material I think every actor is so wrong for it and then is styled wrong is like just like not locked into whatever character she wants like that that's the biggest thing with that yeah I disagree on that yeah I have some issues with the casting

[02:20:07] in that movie but I will say it but I think that's the thing that bothers me which is that rom-com got no wait let me okay that Pedro Pascal and Dakota have no chemistry that is the point stop it I have a point to make go ahead rom-coms got equated with chick flicks yes sure and that is the big and honestly I don't think it's a 90s thing and into the 2000s thing and I think it's a problem on multiple levels because I also don't think like the term chick flick

[02:20:37] should not exist because it's in and of itself productive and then you factor into now that rom-com has been like so inundated with the Netflix schlock and the Netflix you know and and then on a side of that is ripping off the hallmark the hallmark schlock and that is the problem and it's all been denigrated and I mean I think it all comes from like a sexist place which is that like at a certain point they stopped realizing that everyone likes these movies and they thought that only women like these movies but it's like

[02:21:06] a very frustrating thing well it's also just right that we don't have to make an effort as long as it's your Christmas or mine and then their Christmases get swamped that's the problem with the hallmark and the Netflix stuff is people go oh if they'll watch it and we put two dollars into the budget and it stars Joe Fuck and Alice who gives a shit then right then no one fucking matters I also think you're right that it's one of those genres that in the 90s and the 2000s where it was financially very very lucrative it was never treated with a lot of respect

[02:21:36] by the industry itself it was like this is one of those things we have to fucking make we thank Julia for keeping our industry afloat but we're not going to take her seriously until she does Erin Brockovich right whatever it is even that arc between like 90 and 2000 where it's like they cannot ignore her in Pretty Woman they have to give her a best actress nomination because it's such a phenomenon it's seismic but by 10 years later they're like you're not getting one again until you actually break the genre and it was always just

[02:22:05] well if they keep making money we'll keep making them even if we don't really respect them the second the fucking obsession with overseas grosses blew up yeah it fucked everything up because these movies are super culturally specific and it's like in the same way that we don't fucking want to watch the french movie called quelques chances about like four people drinking wine and finger banging each other they don't want to see our movies even if they are our stars they don't want to see our movies it's rare those aren't the movies they want

[02:22:35] us to export as much right best rom-coms and they tend to be remade in every country where they're like we'll do our version of that premise like what well there's so many french comedies that were remade as american comedies like three men and a baby and stuff like that but even like what was the olivia wilde's new movie the invite yeah it's a remake sundance

[02:23:05] is like it was a spanish film originally coda coda sure but that movie is a spanish film and i believe it's the fourth remake like three other countries remade it before we did it's called the people upstairs i haven't i'm excited olivia wilde though she's made a film directed no no she's an actor oh okay right that makes more sense yeah and she's in the film yeah of course if she was directing a movie i would have heard about the i would have heard about it green card

[02:23:34] was released limited christmas we're done we're wrapping up i'm wrapping us up guys do you have something you want to say this has been a spirited conversation it's a good reminder though i need to revisit how i think about the rom-com and you know what i'm gonna do what are you gonna do i'm gonna pick up esther's book she's got some great great wrecks in that book seriously if you just like watch along with her like i highly recommend thank you her other books are trash though not true garbage

[02:24:04] uh but falling in love at the movies yes well yes but but but we're not i mean you know we're not at the plugs i mean we should plug esther's book plug away but i mean um also talking about it not naming it i thought it was good oh that's a good point yeah david box office um yeah it comes out christmas uh expands wide ish february 1st okay uh made 30 million dollars domestic i think more worldwide so like we are made some good movies it gets a best screenplay nomination good money

[02:24:34] so that i wanted to point out golden globe it wins best musical or comedy i have all this queued up so do you want to say it yeah so it wins best musical or comedy at the golden globes which is shocking because the other nominees were this is crazy that it won i don't know they must have paid someone off or maybe it was the classier movie i'm going to give you the nominees for best you gotta remember euro voting base you're right but listen because gerard also wins best action he does he does but at least

[02:25:04] he's sort of you know listen to this yeah dick tracy okay fine that wasn't gonna win pretty funny yeah ghost yeah i mean ghost is feels like it's slammed on home alone yeah but they they may be sobby about it but it had made a billion dollars i know and pretty woman yeah it beat all of those out like was there almost like a weird like the bigger movies were sort of splitting votes or something it's crazy i think it's a euro thing and i think pretty woman being released at the beginning of the

[02:25:33] year and green card at the end of the year i think it was probably positioned as that this is the headier pretty woman but this is the rarefied the upper class and i think it's the euro thing jeff arju beats out macaulay culkin richard gear patrick swayze again you'd think the globes it might be going for these guys yeah and johnny depp and edward scissorhands it was the hollywood foreign press so they were like i guess so but like you know uh andy i think was nominated but she she lost to

[02:26:03] julia roberts they at least for that one were like i think julia roberts maybe should win the golden globe and what were the other screenplay nominees i'm gonna tell you because it is it's quite a bunch now the winner is bruce joel rubin's screenplay for ghost which is a stupid winner but obviously that movie was such a phenomenon and i think there was that hollywood of like you know you wrote the movie that was sort of out of fashion yeah and it worked it's also like he invented silly putty where you're like i don't know if we needed this but certainly it caused a sensation

[02:26:33] and no one else was gonna think to write the other reason he won is you look at the other nominees and none of them really feel like winners it's woody allen for alice which is like a weird fucking movie kind of doesn't exist it's a really interesting movie but certainly not gonna win an oscar barry levinson's avalon which was i feel like a movie that everyone thought was gonna be like yeah his big like next oscar epic yeah and everyone was a little tepid on it it's a pretty good movie favorite of my father it's a pretty good yeah it's made though with this kind of like

[02:27:01] it's very historically it's like his fable mens or whatever exactly yeah it is yeah and then wit stillman for metropolitan which is a feat of writing yeah thank god he got in there but like but that feels like you're lucky to be nominated we're giving you that level of respect yeah it's a weird one because it's the 90 oscar so it's dances with wolves and good fellas are like the big you know sort of awards contenders and then shit like you know fucking bugsy shit like fucking bugsy is that is it bugs is no it's not the bugsy

[02:27:30] year it's uh no dick tracy is the big tracy yeah yeah so it's the following year shit like fucking bugsy i guess i mean misery wins best actress best actor jeremy irons for reversal of fortune you know they all the comedies we just noted which are like memorable smashes yeah ghost home alone pretty woman it's like yeah take your noms i mean ghost got some wins right you know but like at the end of the day this wasn't oscars that right that tended to ignore that stuff how much of it's the 10 but i've just been thinking a lot

[02:28:00] about are we a little past the era of like the oscar-winning performances are the only nomination for the movie yeah it doesn't happen much anymore but partly because right 10 10 best picture nominee i mean were there any this year i mean weapons uh weapons yes yeah could quite possibly yeah pull off that exact trick but like you know i feel like a historic one is is that michael douglas was the only nomination that wall street got it's a

[02:28:29] weird reversal of fortune didn't get a ton of nominations did it or am i wrong i might have gotten a few though let's yeah let's great movie because misery i think similarly was just the one uh reversal of fortune got weirdly got three noms uh director actor screenplay oh wow well glenn is truly in a coma for most of it um i mean she is i mean he fucking put her there let me ask you though or did he did you see her blink once it's pretty good performance made a choice and stuck to it

[02:28:59] um misery i think just got the one not misery is the rare truly which is a little rude because like it's actually really good adaptation exactly but i think it's a very crowded field yeah con is great yeah con is great con is great i sound insane right now but he is he's kind of great yeah box office uh so i'm giving you the february 1st expansion it's still only number six it was a slow grower this one number one at the box office we've

[02:29:28] mentioned it a few times already it's a phenomenon a christmas phenomenon it's been number one for three months home alone it's called home alone r.i.p catherine o'hara that's absolutely right yeah but it was one of the ten highest gross and yet the wet bandits still at large they're still at large unfortunately uh one of the ten highest grossing films of all time upon release it made 285 million dollars domestic insane when did they remake it i mean they've tried so many shitty versions of sequels and remakes and reboots and

[02:29:58] like it never it's nobody cares i think also isn't there like a johnny hughes thing like he is very specific like the no because they've done other ones i i mean i think i know sorry esther i was not saying that in a dismissive way just that they've done shitty runoff home alone stuff in a way that i think maybe because he didn't direct it the contracts weren't as tight maybe yeah because i know he wouldn't let something like ferris or right although they were about to make a fucking ferris

[02:30:26] bueller spin-off at paramount plus and it got shut down at the last second thank god thank god the fucking super bowl ads obviously are horrendous now yeah i hate all this shit yeah the one with broderick where he's like i love ai because it helps me like do spreadsheets and shit i'm just watching i'm like broderick you've never done a spreadsheet what is this you don't work in an office the only good get out of here broderick was the one with the toilets i didn't see that but sounds like my kind of thing i saw that one and i mean it was okay i laughed but there wasn't

[02:30:56] like a you know it was bad a single tier like you know kind of super bowl ad that you were looking for there's like the two to three shitty post macaulay home alone the sequels and then the reboot attempt home and i feel like macaulay more recently started being like what if we did like a legitimate one and it was me as the dad i think katherine and her dying kills that kills it even harder i think it kills it really fucking hard in the weird way of course like her like later in life like yeah fifth wave of success probably would have made it

[02:31:26] easier totally like and now it's sort of like oh forget it right and people wanting to see the two of them together if it's just him griff you just know if they do a home alone now it's like he'll we have an app he'll like you know swing the swing the cans with like an app yeah he'll do he'll like put a tick tock filter it on his face to order the pizza and he's not even swinging cans he's taping older iphone models and then he's using an app to it's all be apps

[02:31:55] number two of the box office is the best picture winner dances with wolves that's right so these are it on this bike these are just like fucking juggernauts running the box office that are I mean just three months month long campaigns yeah number three is a film I didn't see in theaters but definitely saw as a boy it's a an adventure film for you know for young people for young people it's not Homer bound no it's more like grown up and dramatic than that but it's definitely still like for you know kids

[02:32:24] and teenagers to Disney film it's a major great actor as a young man you know young newsies nope but kind of you know that level of prestige I don't know it's not it's not the Cusack one it's not the Ethan Hawke one it sure is an Ethan Hawke one it's the Ethan Hawke one and it's called I get all these titles confused it's not something with a G never cry wolf no but it doesn't involve a wolf it doesn't involve a wolf it's not a wolf dog

[02:32:52] white fang white fang there we go I thought that before him yeah you nailed it Esther Esther Zuckerman Esther and I say this look at me I say this from the bottom of my heart points thank you based on Jacqueline's novel you know he's in Alaska or wherever the fuck he is there's a wolf dog they go on an adventure I saw it as a kid I can't say I remember it very well Ethan Hawke yeah Randall Kleiser film yeah who made honey I blew up the

[02:33:21] kid and Grease did you know there's a new TV show where big top peewee where Elizabeth Banks has shrinks and it's like there's there's like a honey I shrunk the kids TV well it's not it's not honey I shrunk the kids but it's called a miniature wife and Matthew McFadden shrinks Elizabeth Banks I just think it's funny I'm right I'm gonna say this from the bottom of my heart oh my god this is coming up yeah it's coming out he made her tiny he made her small it's literally honey I shrunk the kids but it's Elizabeth Banks but it's not like just imagine

[02:33:51] McFadden going like oh which platform is this on I believe Peacock I'm gonna say this from the bottom of my heart I think we need to create Skynet and use it to destroy the servers that all of these streaming platforms use I think we need to wipe this shit out enough is enough whatever the algorithms are that are making it like they've got to go yes we need to do a movie about your mission to like tear out like servers in

[02:34:20] like Hollywood basements or whatever I'm like I'll just I'll get a sledgehammer right now and just start we fucking ran the McFadden Elizabeth Bank see shrinks her it's enough it gets you know like the profit loss we it gets us there and I don't know I we have to create an entity we have to create we have to find a pod cova I don't know what we have to fucking do man remember how often they say pod cova in that movie yeah we saw that film together I still have so many questions yeah number four I

[02:34:50] tried to work through I've gotten somewhere still waiting on Christopher McQuarrie's remaining 800 hours of explaining why it's good he got he tapped out after four he did I would love him to come aboard I wonder I truly wonder how he feels I genuinely want him to go through a couple years of therapy yeah yeah maybe write like a book even make another movie yeah and then like be like okay you know what fine in retrospect I made a couple right I'm opening the final reckoning files right three million will remain redacted but three

[02:35:20] million will be released to the public maybe I didn't mean to do that many flashbacks um number four is a best picture nominee um from a director who we will cover on this podcast one day you're always saying we're going to cover her I'm always saying we're going to cover her her Penny Marshall it's the motion picture awakenings awakenings wake up kind of just like ultimate sturdy oscar bait movie why is Penny Marshall a joke like I great question you should do it no great question and I'm glad you're saying

[02:35:49] me up for this because I think the longer it's been a joke the more people think you're making fun of Penny we would never do it and we don't think she's worthy of a series like she is absolutely a hundred percent I actually want to do her as a series yeah I I need to do a Penny episode which Penny would you want to do a penny for your thoughts I mean you can't just call League of Her Own so come on you can what I I'm not asking her to call one I'm saying which one would you want to do in your heart of hearts you can obviously I would want to do a League of their own but you get someone more famous to

[02:36:18] do that sorry you guys are big time now let's just a rod had told us he was interested a rod's become a rod's become a blankie and a checkmate I mean yes Lee I mean look riding in cars with boys would be fucked up to do that's fun yeah it's more fun than League of Their Own dude League of Their Own is kind of like yeah it rocks you know I mean it would be fun but like the weird ones are funner also a rod has like a lot of takes on that one he said he has some personal stories that he thinks would be a good

[02:36:48] place to share I know the actual answer is it was a bit very early into our run when we had been covering kind of like more obvious people and landed on that as the joke answer to throw people off our scent it's a griff bit and then now it has circled back to just I can always say we're doing Penny Marshall next to divert people's attention from what we're actually doing but to be clear which is Roman Polanski Lester you're on every

[02:37:17] episode to be clear I would very much like to do Depardieu Polanski just people who have other people have signed petitions in support of yeah I would very much like to do Penny Marshall and I'd like to do it sooner rather than later how's next week for you David yeah let's do it let's do it number five of the box office is a romantic comedy drama about a young woman who falls forward eventually marries an overbearing older man who proceeds to rub her close-knit family the wrong way would you believe that this

[02:37:47] film stars Richard Dreyfuss this is what about Bob no this is not a movie I really know it's a Lasse Hallstrom movie it's his first English language film the great Swedish director Lasse Hallstrom who became a very mediocre Hollywood director mediocre Hollywood director is almost yeah too kind he did make chocolate well he made a couple of good American we're coming back around everything's the whole circle look I watched chocolate for the first time like two or three years ago after mostly knowing it as like ultimate Oscar villain

[02:38:17] you took a bite and I'm like this shit rolls chocolate's pretty good obviously being nominated for best pictures the worst thing that ever could have happened to it I wish we had three chocolats a year I think that like what is chocolate about dude it is about what if you were a stuffy French town and Juliette Binoche like at her peak performance yeah showed up and started making chocolate and everyone just got so horny and then Johnny Depp showed up and Johnny Depp is there too but he's on you know Johnny Depp is like a Romani drifter

[02:38:47] who like steals her heart and then returns it to her Alfred Molina seemingly coming straight from the set of Dudley Do-Right he's just like this chocolate is bad he's got the mustache and the cape and everything her daughter's ponette the saddest girl in the history of movies right right alright I gotta watch this it's a pretty silly movie Judy Dench is an old lady who's like chocolate makes them horny I will report back I think that like Gilbert Grape Chocolat

[02:39:16] are the sort of I guess the two best Hallstrom Hollywood movies I've never seen something to talk about no the Julia Roberts movie he made is there another 90s one Cider House it's a movie that is again it's like if you remove the Oscar nominations like the unjust wins that it got yeah you're kind of like oh this is interesting there's things about this that work like it's just my princess of New England personally I think Cider House rules boo I had to do it

[02:39:45] I liked it I liked it Cider House rules but you know my life as a dog is like incredible like he made great movies anyway this movie I've never heard of I'll tell you the stars Richard Dreyfuss Holly Hunter Danny Aiello Laura Sanjiacomo so uh Andy McDowell's co-star yeah also in Pretty Woman there's like a lot Jenna Rowland's is in it Roxanne Hart Tim Ghani I don't know this movie do you guys know this movie is the title a sentence no it's like a very generic sounding title

[02:40:15] it's called Broken Hearts no it's called Once Around produced by Griffin Dunn I wonder if he ever considered directing or something I have no idea I don't know he was producing a lot in that era though he produced Running on Empty Griffin B. until he's seen the winter yeah yeah so that's the top five number six is green card number seven is it's not a tumor kindergarten cop number eight is a movie called Popcorn what is that? that's a horror film isn't it about a haunted movie theater? yeah

[02:40:44] I've always wanted to see it I've never seen this poster I've never seen this movie yeah college students hosting a film festival stalked and murdered by a serial killer sounds fun number nine is The Grifters another Oscar holdover great film great film and number ten is Hamlet I think the Mel Gibson Hamlet sure which is very a very solid kind of like I think I remember what Mel Gibson said what did he say? it's clueless she's reference oh got it

[02:41:12] you got a lot of the kings of the 90s in that ten true for being true Trifus you mean? no but you got you got Macaulay and Arnie and Costner and Gibson totally it is like it's a snapshot of a movie star era definitely yeah I mean hell number 11 is Godfather Part 3 well look at that Pacino's there number 12 is Jacob's Ladder Tim Robbins the biggest tallest he is tall one of our tallest actors

[02:41:42] I just saw Howard the Duck for the first time recently because I'm trying to watch every movie you know what? I know this because you liked Ross Leupold's review of it I thought it was funny during and it was he got that notification during our Super Bowl watch he was like well no because you liked it and then a bunch of people started liking it if I like a review I don't mean to do this but because I have a big following he was like what the fuck is happening? I mean his review to me nailed I know you've discussed Howard the Duck many times

[02:42:12] on the George Lucas talk show I'm sure yes duck tits yes duck tits right but his review nailed the whole thing to me where he's like what bugs him is the duck is not funny he's not trying and failing he's not even intended to be funny he's just grumpy about being a duck in the real world the whole movie where's the point of the comic book character is he's like eh my wife's cracking duck in this one he's just like what the fuck's up with me not being in my duck world? it feels like real Lucas influence that if he had been like I read the comic

[02:42:42] book and I liked it and I hired funny filmmakers and I let them do whatever they wanted to do right I'm not sure the movie works but it's probably more of an out and out comedy right I kind of went into it because of its weird status now thinking like this is going to be interesting and then I put it on and I was like this is like sludgy like this is really slow run a thousand miles for and she looks great it also has a duck in it

[02:43:12] Howard the duck and Tim Robbins is in it I just remember and Jeffrey Jones he's really good yeah legally in the movie what am I supposed to do about the fact that half of Hollywood respects criminals Griffin what do you want me to do about this stop inviting them to your birthday party that's all I'm asking I haven't had a birthday party well I had one last year what should I do this year

[02:43:42] invite Jeffrey Jones or just text him and ask what he's up to oh my god 1-800-Jeffrey Cosby Jeffrey Jones yeah we gotta who else we already invoked Kevin Spacey Cosby runs may be cut out or it's and Tripled I was thinking it is kind of nice that they got Beetlejuice Beetlejuice made while Catherine Herra was still alive not knowing that we were gonna lose her so soon yes like that that movie ends with her being

[02:44:11] reconnected with her dead husband whose top half has been bitten off so you don't have to look at Jeffrey Jones anymore but the movie ends with you being like she seems happy yeah totally she rocks in that movie she's really fun she's so good in that yeah not a movie I like remember that well otherwise watch it again and it grew for me a little it's a fun it's fun it's pretty fun it's fun I definitely was not like like watching that movie I was like no you know what movie rules what Beetlejuice sure well a little bit less Esther anything you want to plug my writing

[02:44:41] you're writing everywhere well obviously my book is but a plug rom-com so falling in love with the movies rom-coms from the squirrel ball era to today um I write many places uh including the New York Times and Los Angeles Times um so you can read my writing around there I'm working on a new book uh that won't be out um by this time but are you allowed to say what it's about yeah it's about the television show Girls hey and people are talking about

[02:45:11] it people are talking about it it will not be out by the time this is done and maybe not out by the time I come back on this show so we will see well you're doing great thank you you're the best I appreciate you guys in fact I would say you are the best oh never forget you can do anything thank you uh Esther I've rewatched Aloha in the last year and do you know that it secretly rips now okay we should I should rewatch it I've been trying to get David to rewatch it but if you get around to rewatching Aloha please touch base with me I will I would rewatch because I really

[02:45:40] should we do a reunion pod let's not go crazy it's only an hour 45 it's not like a big task let's say Aloha to our previous episode on Aloha and meanwhile say Aloha to our new episode on Aloha here's another thing I bought the blu-ray and I dug into the special features there's a 20 minute alternate opening with Jay Baruchel as Bradley Cooper's brother who is entirely cut out of the movie and has multiple scenes sounds like they really had a handle on that movie there's also like a 15 minute alternate ending it's insane sounds like they

[02:46:10] definitely knew what was going on in that movie thank you all for listening please remember to rate review and subscribe thank you to Esther Zuckerman for being here tune in next week for we have our episode on fearless with guest Timothy Simons hit maker you mean hit maker and over on the patreon just a few days ago we released a special bench choice episode on the film edge of tomorrow slash live die repeat yep slash all you

[02:46:40] need is kill love that movie excited well I mean we haven't recorded yet but I'm sure it went great or have we recorded it like 150 times there's gonna be so many bits so many bits let's have like two but anyway if you're interested you can sign up for blank check special features over at patreon.com slash blank check hell yeah Esther you could just get in front of David's mic for one second here I'm just trying to remember

[02:47:09] the movie Aloha it's about the sky we're ASMR again blank check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims our executive producer is me Ben Hosley our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon this show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy research by JJ Birch

[02:47:38] our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the great American novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell artwork by Joe Bowen Ollie Moss and Pat Reynolds our production assistant is Minnick special thanks to David Cho Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit join our Patreon blankcheck special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes follow us on social at blankcheckpod

[02:48:07] subscribe to our weekly newsletter checkbook on Substack this podcast is created and produced by blankcheck productions well then I'm gonna start rolling are you gonna do a French accent better better push that nose up push it up but then push it down kinda we can discuss all this is going at the end of the episode sort of the contours of that nose okay ready