Heat with Jon Gabrus

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Why'd I have to get mixed up with that bitch?

[00:00:22] Cause she's got a great podcast! Oh god, I'm sorry for saying bitch to lead off About a great Ashley Judd performance God, I'm embarrassed My life's a disaster zone God, stepdaughter so fucked up because a real father's this large type asshole I got a wife

[00:00:40] Passing each other on the downslope of a marriage My third, because I spend all my time chasing guys like you round the block That's my podcast So we were talking about this You gotta do 50 blinks, that's the only thing

[00:00:52] But, well you know, for me the action is the podcast Or the podcast is the juice Whatever you- The podcast is the truth No but that's the size more so it's different But you gotta do a lot of blinks For me, the podcast is the truth

[00:01:06] You know what? You're just Pacino, no matter what There's a line in this movie It's when his wife has given him the business about missing dinner Incredible scene I'm sorry if the chicken got overcooked

[00:01:19] No but you see, you're even doing too much because what I love about it is It feels like the take where Pacino gave up But within the movie it feels like this character is so broken That he can't even commit to saying something quippy

[00:01:33] So he starts off with all this entry He was like, I'm down there triple homicide So apologies if because of that the chicken is overcooked Like he just gives up on trying to be a movie character 100% God damn it

[00:01:50] You wanna sit down on the couch, podcast my wife Ball my wife I hadn't heard Ball my wife That's one that has completely slipped out of the vernacular Oh it's still there Really? Yeah I'm trash It just slipped down Right

[00:02:06] It's out of the ether but it's down here in the fucking murk It's settled into the soil I got it I bawled It's weird to say bawled my wife Like that's the only- It's almost weird because Well it's because Sander Berkeley's bawled

[00:02:17] So you're like, wait is this a bawled joke? No he's talking about his bawls, okay You have to watch it with subtitles on Because I feel like I'm a connoisseur of awful euphemisms for sex And I love reappropriating them in a post-modern context Post-modernistic bullshit house Right

[00:02:36] But I just was like wow I have let bawled And maybe it's just my own feeling I've let bawled fall out of my rotation I don't think it's been there in six years I think it's my wife never pairs well

[00:02:47] With like, you're like, I titty fucked my wife You know it's like it just doesn't sound right You know who's got a great set of tits? My wife Like it just sounds crazy I slipped my wife the salami I laid pipe on my wife I don't like bawled

[00:03:02] You don't? I don't like no I like how bad it is It's so bad And it doesn't have a flow to it It stops the sentence cold no matter where you put it Let's see if there are any other good patino quotes here

[00:03:13] In this movie are you kidding me? I don't know let's go to hour two minute fifty six Where I find a couple more Exactly, you can just sort of spin the globe And put your finger down Look here it is Here it is I'm angry

[00:03:25] I'm very angry Ralph You know you can bawl my wife if she wants you to You can lounge around here on her sofa And an ex-husband's dead tech post-modernistic bullshit house If you want to But you do not get to listen To my fucking podcast

[00:03:39] He picks up that tiny little television He picks up the server And he takes the feed with it I was doing a podcast with David Sims A half an hour ago When I get to Phoenix When he starts singing Oh yeah and he's like rock Everything was yesterday

[00:03:55] You're wasting my motherfucking time This is the performance that breaks him Right? Cause I feel like people point to devil's advocate Sure Because they go that was the last time he was kind of good He is still good in devil's advocate But this is him starting to break

[00:04:09] And it's still entertaining I think this is him peaking I think he's cresting here as Pacino I think so But I think he breaks at the top of the mountain He gets to the top and he starts cracking

[00:04:19] Sent to the woman is the one that breaks the dam Right? Where he's like oh this is allowed You know and they're like here's your Oscar sir And he's like that was good It's his privilege Right? I've rewarded And then like he still can

[00:04:31] He does Carlitos way the day You know the year after that's a quiet You know that's not like an insane performance It's not super you know Donnie Brass goes after this Donnie Brass goes after this The insider which is a yelly performance

[00:04:41] But the good one is after this Insomnia obviously is after this But we both agree Insomnia says last good performance in a Theatrical released film In a movie His only good work after that is Angels in America HBO it's on HBO Yeah it's all way good killers Right

[00:04:54] He really likes to play killers that have weird looks Did you see the paterno movie? I did not I couldn't bring myself to like Supporting It's literally just him sitting in a chair And everyone's like Of course Jack and Jill There is Don Cacino

[00:05:08] That's his only other good Well that's not a feature film It's a great commercial Yeah Exactly If you broke that out Yes But you know in paterno he just sits in a chair And everyone's like what should we do about paterno And he's like

[00:05:20] He used to be a football coach And just doesn't do anything at all In this boring movie in the world William Freakin called Pacino In his memoir He called him a hair actor Wow He said yeah He spends an hour doing his thing And he's like

[00:05:33] He's like yeah He spends an hour doing his hair Or whatever And then Freakin goes on to tell the story That he would let Pacino Tire himself out And always use the fifth take He'd be like Yeah Go bigger, go bigger

[00:05:44] And then when he didn't have the gas left His way He got the I need one more out of it This is IMDb trivia So who knows And Freakin was with him I mean was in the 80s Yeah Cruising Yeah For sure Al Pacino had a full facelift

[00:05:57] Before filming began Now that's just IMDb trivia Like no attribution No I do love that idea Where he's like He's getting weary in the faces And he's like Pull it back up I got a movie to make Al Pacino and my grandmother Sure

[00:06:13] Ruta have weirdly morphed into the same person Through similar procedures And hair strategies Because I think my grandmother Is probably around the same height as Pacino I say with no disrespect I'm a little man But she does the exact same Sort of like weird rod steward

[00:06:30] Let me add six inches of height But it's like sort of flat ironed Into like separate strips And stricter than it should be And a similar coloration Because she's gone to the same thing as Pacino Where Pacino is now kind of like Strawberry blonde in these movies

[00:06:44] He's somehow salt and pepper and Honey Yeah, salt and lemon pepper The most fucked up scene in the entire movie Of course is a close up of Pacino kissing his wife Oh, that's crazy And that looks like kind of two of age lesbians

[00:07:01] Making out and I didn't hate it And then it's like when you zoom out and realize It's not like an Italian and a Greek lesbian kissing A two-foot-two shirtless man It's just one of those things where you watch the scene You're like, right, this is the last time

[00:07:13] You can film this And not get arrested Diabonora is roughly She's like ten years younger than him They're almost age appropriate I mean they're basically age appropriate I don't like any of the relationships In this movie You don't think this movie depicts healthy relationships

[00:07:27] It's just like the throwback of like the 80s Of like men got to work Except the work is killing or stopping killing And that's my, it's Michael Mann, man I know It's like my wife, my girlfriend wants me to go to Fiji with her

[00:07:39] But I need to kill Wayne Groh I gotta get the juice He does gotta kill Wayne Groh Wayne Groh is no good Yeah His biggest sexual release in the movie is saying Look at me to Wayne Groh before he blows him away Look at me Look at me

[00:07:54] You know we've said on this many series I'm sure we'll continue saying this But Michael Mann movies are about You know above all else tough men making tough choices And there's no tougher choice Then do I go on vacation with Mike

[00:08:07] For the rest of my life, you're your girlfriend An infinite vacation With a girl who hit on me Right She saw, oh look at this fucking psychopath Reading a metal book So you're 30 years older than me And look like you killed recently In the timeline of this film

[00:08:24] And my reaction to you hitting on me was like Look lady, what do you want to know about me? And then she's like, oh sorry Well let's give him one more chance He is old and unattractive He does not have cutlery in his house

[00:08:35] He does live in an Ikea showroom I like even Val Kilmer in that movie He's like dude, you gotta get first I tried to crash into your house I just sleep on the floor But you know the good thing is He is completely emotionally vacant Right

[00:08:50] What about that moment of seeing this cold killer In a gray suit at a bar Makes you go, uh oh, I am an artist A female artist He's hot, I'm sorry I would go for a denier in this movie I'd be like, I can crack him open

[00:09:04] I'll be the one Cocky hot dude Like you kind of want him to pay attention He is Because he's so cold You're like, if he gives you This is like my father My wife, like all my friends Like the people I find the most

[00:09:16] You surround yourself with Michael Mayhem character I do because I surround myself With people that I'm like I don't know if they like me or not Let me confirm Make sure they like me through effort This of course is a podcast Called Blank Check with Garfun and David

[00:09:28] No, it's quite alright We've started pushing that The introduction until the second hour If we can It's a podcast about filmographies Directors who have massive success Early on in their career In a given series of blank checks To make whatever crazy passion projects They want

[00:09:42] Sometimes those checks clear And sometimes they bounce Baby He does baby in this That's where Gina Lombard Is my character I do on Comedy Bang Bang I stole baby Really? Yeah Because I just loved baby I wrote it in a screenplay one time

[00:09:55] Where like a shock jocks is You gotta love yourself baby And I just took it from Pachino And I can't stop it It's so much fun You were gonna have to share me With the bad people And all the ugly events on the planet

[00:10:05] You know what you signed up for Baby Baby Chicken is over choked What do you want me to say There's a baby in the microwave baby I put a baby in the microwave Oh my god This of course is a master's on the films Of Michael Mann

[00:10:20] It's called Cast of the Pothekins Sure, is that what it's called I already forgot A.K.A. Michael Mann's Plain And with us today An amazing, amazing guest Thank you So we wanted to have on for a very long time Yep And the schedule's always

[00:10:35] Whenever you were here David was away Oh my fault Well I do live on the other coast Yes But as he said in his introduction Our guest today is Gina Lombard Thanks, asshole Uh, John Gabers is here Hey, thanks, asshole I'll survive, Michael My characters are ThinValors

[00:10:53] Most of Action Boys Gina Lombardo is my favorite character In the entire CBV universe It is said that to me when you weren't here Yeah, truly Yeah, he's just a ramped up version of me It's an immediate play Yeah Yeah That's the immediate top of Q

[00:11:08] If Gina was on an episode Do you know how deep Mine and Griffin's history goes? Go ahead I was his level one improv teacher Are you kidding me? I met him when he was I mean, I still think he's 19 But I met you when How old were you?

[00:11:20] I think I was 19 or 20 Yeah, I think it was 19 Always hard to guess with you Yes I think I was a hard 19 Let me just show me your ID Before I blew you though Yes Just to confirm We were equals And then we cast Griffin

[00:11:33] In what we thought was going to be a pilot Right It ended up being a digital series A TV show that we filmed At your real childhood home My mom's house Because you said like We're like okay friends We she's like

[00:11:44] We see each other like once or twice a year And you're like You have been to both my childhood home And my home in LA Right I don't have any friends that have that couple Yeah I met your mom Right How's his mom? Lovely

[00:11:55] Looks a lot like me Right Shorter, slightly less hairy And even more Italian Kept on bringing food around Yep For the casting crew But sometimes would do it mid-take Yeah Also we cast My mom as an extra And she just watched She's They showed me like playback

[00:12:10] And she just stared at me and smiled And she's not supposed to know who I am Just so much fun And she's just like Oh my god look at my son shooting the movie But they'd be like Roll for room tone

[00:12:21] And then she'd come in and be like Anyone want Tatinos? Like a big plateau Of course I would Yeah, he doesn't want Tatinos Yeah Yeah Yeah You're here John Well thanks for having me I'm a fan of listening to the podcast Thank you I'm like

[00:12:36] We're saying you're like the king of podcasts I love guesting on podcasts I love listening to podcasts And I love Hosting three different podcasts The sound of yours Me blowing my head off But you know when you like see like I hope this doesn't sound back-handed

[00:12:48] Because it's certainly not the intention Right And you are a very skilled actor And a very skilled writer Yeah But you know when Like certain stand-ups You're like Why haven't I heard of this guy Like I'm seeing him host Or I'm seeing him

[00:13:03] Like do an hour at the club And he's like killing And you're like It just doesn't translate Like he's specifically someone who works In a live comedy club There's something about what you said Like everything you've developed in your life Is like perfectly suited to the podcast

[00:13:18] Was accidentally pointing to podcasts I had no idea until the medium Until I moved to Los Angeles I was asked to do an episode of Comedy Bang Bang Right And I'm like what is like I never even listened to podcasts I listened to This American Life before then

[00:13:27] Because this would have been 2011 or 2012 So I wasn't even into podcasts I didn't have a car I was reading books on the subway Like a grown-up And then I moved to LA And I do a podcast And people are like Wow you're really good at that

[00:13:38] I'm like you mean sitting and talking For two hours And purposefully trying to ruin Conversation with jokes And they're like Yeah that's what podcast is And I'm like Well let me get a slice of this shit Right it's like all the stuff You enjoy doing an improv

[00:13:50] That all your improv teachers told you Not to do Yeah it's like be yourself Be real Reveal dark truths Yeah right It's the best Steamroll the conversation That was the great thing about Gabers as an improv teacher Was he would like sort of do the

[00:14:04] Like I mean look You're not supposed to do that He wouldn't slap you down Cause he's like look it's kind of working Like come on it's funny Well the old joke I used to say As I got longer into teaching I would say like

[00:14:17] Look you're not supposed to like Steamroll like that Someone like him He can steamroll She's allowed to steamroll Cause they're funny It's like get out of the way Let them be funny You can't do it Because you can't really hold your weight These guys These girls

[00:14:32] They got it It's getting better They have like a steamroller license You gave certain people a Warren Beatty pass Rules don't apply Rules don't apply Those rules Sure little WB Man Lily Collins Lily Collins That's her name right Lily Collins from Rules Don't Apply She's got those brows

[00:14:50] She's in Tolkien She's got those brows They play like a little version of her Like a younger version This girl has like the craziest And you see her first I was like Lily Collins is playing The grown up of her And she's like

[00:15:02] Lily Collins is playing the grown up of this Whoever it is They put like fake mustache She has the grouchos over her eyes It's so good They're like six inches off her head Like an animatic cartoon They're Morgan Freeman and Dreamcatcher Yeah Yeah, dyed black It's so good

[00:15:20] What a specific Well they're the best eyebrows in cinema Morgan Freeman I'm gonna find him right now I'd say Peter Gallagher in the OC Yeah well that's in television He's the record holder He's got eyebrows Now talk about specifics You love action movies Love crime movies

[00:15:36] I love crime movies Right I love Michael Mann movies I consider myself Like the thinking man's meat head You know what I mean Where I like I love that Oh hell yeah He literally looks like a bowel from Winnie the Pooh What am I a fucking owl?

[00:15:51] What am I a fucking owl? No this is like We knew we were doing Michael Mann I reached out to you I was like you're gonna be here anytime You were like Yeah you're like We've been here for about three months We're doing Michael Mann And I'm like

[00:16:03] Ah yes I'll be here I have one day in between My nephew's christening and a friend's baby shower Right And you were like we're available Right I mean AI was so like Happy that the reason you were gonna be in the city

[00:16:14] With a four hour window was because You were in between like a christening Well the most in a baby shower In Long Island I saw Billy Joel on Friday At the garden So I did the most Long Island weekend you can I was like

[00:16:25] Faber's can only do Sunday afternoon And they're like Is that convenient for him I was like yeah he's got like A christening on Saturday This is the most Long Island Friday trip ever And I love getting to say to my wife And like the people I'm staying with

[00:16:37] I'm like Well I gotta run Sunday morning To go to work for a little bit It's like screaming about movies with friends But there is that imperfect I mean I feel like you're one of those guys Who's like king of the specifics Yes

[00:16:47] Like you're really good at these polls It's one of the reasons I love Gina Lombardo Because you were like pulling Just from your reference base From when you were 15 So it's like an infinite well It's a time travel for me Right and you just go hyper specific

[00:16:57] And to like where the parking lot is In relation to the sub shop And like all the stops on like The LIRR course When you find out people don't hate that You're like okay fine My favorite thing kills me The LIRR thing kills me

[00:17:08] I love that so much But you're also one of those guys Where it's just like And I remember you saying this In class where it's like You should learn a little bit About every subject Yeah to be good at improv It just gives you guys You gotta

[00:17:20] Right because it's like If someone brings up the Bible And you want to have two Bible Specifics you can throw out Yeah or at least to recognize That what they're discussing Is the Bible Right right You need to have like some base working Knowledge

[00:17:30] So you're telling me you just told Everyone in the UCB to read the Bible Is that what you're trying to say That's why I was fired You were like fellas This is called the King James Bible You handed them out I taught a class to a dude

[00:17:40] Who English was his second language He spoke Mandarin And I go Your English is actually very strong Where'd you learn that He goes I looked up then I'm not gonna do an accent I looked up the number one Selling book in America In English and read it

[00:17:51] And I'm like what was that book He's like the Bible But I was like You learned English from the Bible It seems insane It seems like the The origin story of a very specific villain Right right Where he's like I only had this one book to work up

[00:18:03] And thus I am fully evil Right After reading everything in this Right I want to take over the world Your lessons for him were like Look we usually try to yes and not A shout not Well here are the ten rules of improv

[00:18:19] You had to teach him a herald on stone tablets That's the only way you would learn Yeah But I was watching this movie Having known you for a while Being a big fan of your work And I was like Michael Mann movies in this movie

[00:18:35] In particular feel like a movie That you crib from a lot Whenever you have to do an action Or crime scene in any sort of comedy show Hell yeah Because the specifics in this thing Are so good The rhythms of how they talk

[00:18:48] The energy of how they talk It's one of those things that they Like always teach you in improv Where it's like If you're doing a scene And you recognize that it sort of Feels like a cop show Go like full steam into it

[00:18:58] And I think Michael Mann does that So well where no one says Like there's never a moment where Like here's the plan Right You're just like It's just like they're pros They all know the plan They don't even explain what they say When it's like

[00:19:11] Is it a prowler or is it a Through the front door That's such a great phrasing of that Yes And it's so awesome I have this weird like ASMR type reaction It's not like fully like that But I get a sort of physical Like sort of tingle

[00:19:24] Whenever movies go this hard Into vocabulary that isn't explained That you don't understand That's my favorite It's the fucking best When you're like someone Researched the shit out of this And the actors learned it Until it sounded like it was nothing I fucking love lingo

[00:19:37] And it's all fucking thrown over the shoulder I love jargon I love lingo I don't care if it's medical I appreciate tactical the most I love medical lingo But yes Tactical lingo is good Military lingo Say tango down is like One of the best things you can say

[00:19:49] All that out But there's so much in this It's scum lingo But like this where The studio like shoots the bottom And top of the door So cool Where you're like Why have I never seen anyone do that before Like that's so good What I recognize this time

[00:20:01] Is that he switches the shells Yeah He puts in the special blue shells Which are scatter shots That's why he's pumping them Right Cause he puts it in the elevator And I'm like I don't remember Why is he Why are they making such a show

[00:20:13] Of putting the blue shells in And I'm like Oh that's the scattered door blower Like if there's someone standing on the side You don't blow their head on them Right And they rollins And they're like And you can see weight lifting And we rollins

[00:20:24] And we rollins in sweatpants What a great fucking character To just be in the middle of this movie I would be so honored if I were to There's so many weird people Who show up for one scene Oh, Piven Jeremy Piven Piven, Dr. Bob Piven with the hair

[00:20:37] All the way back All the way back All the way down the front of his chest Exactly That's where he pulled from For Ari Gold He had like a reverse Transplant You're right He had the opposite where They took hair from the top of his head

[00:20:49] Transplanted onto the back Of his shoulders 100% The best place for him Tom Noonan in a wheelchair Talking about microchips or whatever Oh god Early internet Very early internet Here in Tom It's all on there I love that The printout The printout on that like perforated Oh yeah

[00:21:08] The Dot Matrix printer Where he's like Look at this number here Like it is Like the details In Michael Mann movies Are erotic Yes Well this And this is his first Manhunter But manhunter is sort of its own thing It has a lot of the cop stuff Right

[00:21:22] But this is his first like Criminal movie since he I mean since thief Since thief Yeah Right when thief is loaded With all that shit too All these guys talking about I don't know Drill bits Kind of pinch ya Yeah pinches All that Well like you said

[00:21:36] Like you This is from IMDb Trivia as well Oh yeah Michael Mann saying Like you took all the guys To meet criminals And like you feel that They're soaked They're steeped in like How they hang out With each other This is one of those movies where it's like

[00:21:48] These are not movie cops Or movie criminals Right Like he's establishing new Stock types now Right You know Yeah And we talk a lot about like He refers to his own style As like stylized realism Yeah Cause he's like I'm trying to make everything really real

[00:22:04] But also cooler than real life Right it's got It's reality but blue Right But like Kind of a neon blue There's a little jazz into it But I'm also just not like Embellishing or creating anything He's like getting all the details right And then he's just throwing like

[00:22:19] A little stank on it Yeah So much cool shit in this one Like the detail One of my favorite details of the movie Is the rear windshields blowing out On when the shape charge goes off That fucking detail is just watching The ripple of those things

[00:22:32] I'm like that's That must have been so much time And effort to set up that shot And it's a one second In a three hour movie And it fucking lands hard Ben asked us recently Why movies cost so much And we were explaining to him

[00:22:46] We're like well you have to like Essentially like set up You're three of the podcast About how much movies cost Almost five We've been talking about some of the biggest Films ever made I think we've covered probably half of the The highest budgeted films ever Sure

[00:22:59] That's what I think Yes But he was asking We were like Well it's like You kind of have to like Found an entire company Like you have to create this Infrastructure and payroll Pire all these people Right Right And like obviously like big people Like you know

[00:23:14] You pay them a crazy amount of money Or if you have things like CGI Or costumes or sets Those are sort of things like that You can see how somewhat Like some people can understand Ben perhaps Why do Michael Mann movies cost this much

[00:23:25] Like why did he cost like It cost 60 60 million dollars 25 years ago No 100% It cost a fair amount of money It's an insane And it's on the screen But you don't see any visual effects There's no sets There's no weird No sets Not one set All locations

[00:23:40] Is there one weird green screen shot Where they're on the hills In the hills That looks like a green screen That's the only thing possibly I think so And I wouldn't be surprised If they were on that actual patio And then put a green screen up around

[00:23:54] Because they wanted the exact shimmery look That is what it was I think it's because They couldn't get the shot to look right Right 100% He would not have done it otherwise No and that's like You see in that shot You watch that shot And you're like

[00:24:07] I totally get why Michael Mann Became so obsessed with digital video Because digital video allowed him to get that shot Like what he wants is like Two actors Crystal clarity And just the real light Of the city behind them With no artificial lighting around them

[00:24:23] So it really looks like night And you see the cars moving behind them And it was impossible to get that in focus Totally Without blowing it out At the right time Right, because there's that shot At the beginning of Miami Vice When they're on the rooftop

[00:24:35] See, because I was about to say If you like leave go Miami Vice the only dialogue is lingo They take everything else out It's all in the garbage Miami Vice is one of those movies Where I'm like How does this work

[00:24:47] And why do I like it so much That's a good call Like when you like On paper you're like Oh, it's Jamie Foxx, Colin Farrell Doing Miami Vice, a kitschy 80s TV show And then all of a sudden you're watching You're like

[00:24:59] Oh, if you just called this movie Like we're cops versus drug dealers Whatever you'd be like It's a fucking great movie Pros versus pros Yeah, right But it's also like this thing We've talked about where it's like He gets $100 million budgets Or what at the time

[00:25:12] Would adjust to $100 million budget And big stars Because he's always like Look, I got two or three massive stars And it's just a simple cops and robbers story Like he sells them on these Like little kid playground terms Where it's like Here's my cowboys in Indians movie

[00:25:26] Here's my cop and robber The pitch of heat is the simplest Most effective, you know Like De Niro and Pacino Cat and mouse Cop, robber Like you've never seen him together Here they are And you're like cool It's like a taut 85 Cool, so after the big bank robbery

[00:25:41] It's over No, there's one more hour Natalie Portman's gonna try and kill herself She is, who she is Shut up David, you're saying that I've seen this movie 40 times Possibly I watched it again last night To be as fresh as possible And still moments I'm like Oh, right

[00:25:58] Natalie Portman I totally forgot about that I've seen this movie so many times And I was like We're wrapped up, right And then I'm like no No, we're like there's that coming And then I forget And I forgot also the other thing That was a surprise

[00:26:10] Or I can't believe I forgot Because there is 70 story lines Up in the air in this movie Yeah, because it's a TV show It's a remake of a TV pilot It's a TV pilot and so much of it Is like oh right

[00:26:20] That would have been a whole thing Like the whole Wayne Grow Is also a serial killer thing That Yeah That's the thing that I also forgot about the movie When they cut back He's like the Grim Reaper's here And you know And I was like oh right

[00:26:32] Is that a David Lynch movie? Right Is this Bob? For fucking Twin Peaks Sorry, Kari What were you going to say, Griffin? No, it's such a crazy like He This is a real sort of Relationship between a cop And a thief from the 70s Yes

[00:26:49] That he did insane extensive research into In Chicago Right In big Chicago Then he wrote it as a film script That was this long Right He said at the time of Thief In 1979 He has like 180 page Right And he was like What is this movie?

[00:27:03] He's like this is the big one And he was like I'd never even attempted to direct it No I wouldn't even know how to pull something of this size off I want to produce it I'm very proud of the script

[00:27:11] I think it's the best thing I've ever written I couldn't even touch it Right And then several years later Well he asked Walter Hill to make it Yes, Walter Hill turns it down Someone else turns it down I think you're right

[00:27:20] Walter Hill is the one I think of Walter Hill is the obvious guy in 1979 He's your hard boiled crime master Right And everyone's like This is too much Well sure that's the other thing But it feels like this thing's way too long

[00:27:31] I don't want to fuck with it Right Because everyone respected that it was good Then post like Miami Vice crime story When he's now become a big power guy in TV Sells it as a pilot He directs the hour and a half pilot himself Which I didn't realize

[00:27:47] He had never directed an episode of Miami Vice Which is kind of nuts No Because he was such a hands on executive producer And I spent too long on the Miami Vice Wikipedia last night But they were like

[00:28:00] He was the guy who set up the whole color palette And all these rules Right, because I was going to say He's so visually oriented Based on all of his movies And even the shows that he wasn't directing It's crazy that he didn't go like

[00:28:11] Well let me direct a couple of years And he had directed For some reason he is considered the auteur Of Miami Vice By the studio Even though he never He set up the whole sort of visual language What the soundtrack was going to be like

[00:28:22] What the plot lines were like Like he wasn't the showrunner But it sounds like he ostensibly functioned as one He made a lot of the creative decisions Right, he was sort of the ultimate guy At the top of the heap

[00:28:31] So it's like maybe I could make this work as that They shoot it as a 90 minute pilot They don't like the lead act They don't like Scott Plank Yeah Oh, I don't even recognize that No, of course you don't Have you seen LA takedown? No, I have not

[00:28:43] I watched it Right In preparation for this It's bad That's what I've heard It's a network pilot, right? Yeah, but no But it's insane And you can watch I advise everyone going YouTube You can watch the coffee shop scene Okay It's just on YouTube Yeah

[00:28:58] It's the exact same scene It has the same dialogue And it's two actors you've never heard of And they're terrible And like it's like The ultimate testament to movie start-up And like great directing And they're money Right, it's just funny to say like Yeah, these two no-name actors

[00:29:14] Didn't do as good of a job As a hero and a general meeting For the first time on screen A peak of both of their careers Scott Plank and Alex MacArthur And it's literally But like it's the same dialogue Like there's basically no embellishment

[00:29:28] And then did Xander Berkeley play Waingrove? Xander Berkeley is Waingrove Which is why Xander Berkeley is in this one It's a little like hat tip He's the cheater, right? Yes, the baller He's Ralph He's Ralph But NBC went to man and they were like

[00:29:41] Well pick it up if you recast Scott Plank And he was like no go Which is insane They were gonna pick it up We don't know But you're Michael Mann We'll do it But Scott Plank really Make him walk the plank Yeah exactly

[00:29:53] So then he sits on it for a while And then he's like, oh god Plank fuck you But it's crazy What year is LA Takedown shot? He's 788 I believe it's 89 Let me check 89 Right and then this movie's 95 There's like a huge gap first of all

[00:30:07] Between manhunter and Mohicans In which he's making LA Takedown Right And making his other TV shows Doing crime story and Miami Vice And all of that But you know that's right And then after the LA Takedown He moves over to Mohicans Right, Mohicans is his biggest hit

[00:30:21] Of his career Still if you adjust for inflation He's a fucking movie Amazing movie But you also go like here's Daniel Day Lewis Who's like so temperamental You know but he got it out of him Like these tough guys respect man

[00:30:34] He can wrestle a performance out of these guys Who are reticent to sign onto movies Yeah and he'd also walked into a studio And said like this James Fenimore Cooper Novel it's time Right Like we can And it was not really the moment

[00:30:47] Where that was a sure sale Right You know like we should do an 18th century Period action movie And he got it Also like even in a like we should side with the Native Americans Right Totally Totally Yeah like the idea of mass premise of just like

[00:31:00] We should be on their side for the movie Right But I think a lot of that is The key to him is He almost always uses I mean I think Hemsworth Is the sort of exception this Because Hemsworth by all accounts is Very affable Yeah

[00:31:15] And sort of just a good guy But he always works with these movie stars Who are kind of notoriously difficult Lot of ego to wrangle In one way or another And like can steamroll a director Yeah I think it's

[00:31:26] And he's like one guy who can fight back with them I'm gonna speak at a turn Not being fully informed on Michael Mann But he seems like he's sort of like Enjoys the macho-ness of it Where he's like He's like look They're fucking guys

[00:31:38] You know like let's get him in the room And we'll get it done Billion percent David has locked into this notion That he's sort of like an NCAA basketball coach Right That it's that sort of antagonistic Like fuck you you can't dribble

[00:31:51] And also it's like this is my system You're gonna do my system Yeah I blame you I say hey look I don't care what you did in high school You put up a hundred baskets in one night Nah you're playing my system Right You're defense only 100%

[00:32:03] And some guys like that I think some stars also just like being sort of Obviously he commands much respect I think it's also Well respected director But macho appreciates macho always You know what I mean Like you know alpha to alpha They're like alright

[00:32:15] Well then we're making a fucking heat bro But I think there is a lot of those Especially male movie stars Who have difficult egos People tend to think like cool You have to put your foot around them And in fact the only times they have good relationships

[00:32:27] With directors are people who are sort of As antagonistic as they are Because they want that weird It's like that weird sort of sports thing This movie is full of legendary psychos Angry Like John Voight making his first movie in five years Yeah because he was like

[00:32:43] Man was like I want you to do it And John Voight said no This is John Voight's first wide release film Since Runaway Train Yeah crazy ten years earlier And his first film period in five years In five years Yeah And this like relaunches his career Yeah

[00:32:57] But all these guys like I heard a very similar thing About like I worked on I'll just say this I worked on the motion picture draft day You did that's right Absolutely This comes up every once in a while Yeah Touchdown I've been right man

[00:33:11] Kind of surprisingly one of these guys That makes sense Like kind of like fuck you Like I'm the boss here kind of guy And sort of will nag you and is pretty aggro I like alpha comedy guys Is like an interesting world He's been around the block

[00:33:25] And I was like I'm very surprised by his energy I think he's a very good director Well also he's Canadian So you always assume Canadians are polite But the thing that they said was like Well how did he make his career He made his career

[00:33:36] By him being the guy that Murray wanted to work with And it was like That's the one guy Murray responds to That's the one director Right Murray who is like the deniro of comedy When Murray was in his studio comedy days Rightman was the only guy

[00:33:48] Cause like Ramis even Like his best friend Led to a falling out after both of them Made their best film ever But rightman was like the one director Apparently with Murray was like Fuck you you can't act I think right And Murray would like kill it

[00:34:01] I think man's other thing too You know so many of these movies is like Say I'm Seismore and I'm like Do I have to and it's You know or like This is bullshit and he's like Yeah well I have the real career criminal Right here

[00:34:13] Hey come here Tony you know He brings this guy's like Yeah I cracked 50 safes That's how we do it You know He puts you through the spin cycle Of like these tough guys I saw Aronofsky speak Right after the Oscars Of the wrestler year

[00:34:27] Where he's like the campaign's over I can tell you everything Mickey's a fucking nightmare And he just told a bunch of stories where he was like He's like a six year old He's like a petty child And the only way you get a response out of him

[00:34:37] Is to be like the mean softball coach And I just did that with him all the time Like I'd pull him aside And I'd just be like Mickey your career's fucking over No one wanted me to hire you I'm losing money because you're working on this

[00:34:48] If you fuck this up You're never gonna work again And he'd be like I'm done I did one take I'm done And he'd be like Mickey this is why they threw you out They're gonna throw you out again And he was like It was just that

[00:34:59] And Michael Mann has that sort of thing With these guys Which always gives him A sort of blank check Up until a point When these types of films become Fully unviable Right Where it's just like Which is now Right But it's like

[00:35:14] If you can get Pacino and De Niro in the movie Here's your 60 And he gives it straight to De Niro And De Niro's like cool I'll call Al And he was like Al you should do this And Pacino was like Yeah cool I'll do this

[00:35:23] De Niro basically loved the diner scene He like read this script And he was like This scene is magnificent And I want Al You can sell a pitch on At that time You can sell a pitch on Like and the criminal And the cop meet Yes

[00:35:35] And it's not contentious No And it's respect It's the middle of the movie Like a cup of coffee Right Sure It'll be a trope forever That cops and criminals Are actually really similar Right But it's a different Yeah But I think he does it the best first

[00:35:54] But who is this now There isn't this now No I couldn't walk into a thing And I'm getting you Leo And like X movies Sorry they're gonna You know like there isn't A Pacino De Niro now Right In order to get Pacino and De Niro

[00:36:06] In a movie together They both have to have Trilogy's that have made Billions of dollars Right And the extended universe Then we combine these two characters I mean The argument is The closest to this Is like the fucking Irishman Which I know your argument is

[00:36:19] He had to go to Netflix to make it But he's also making it But that's just Pacino De Niro again I know I'm saying like What's the pitch of movie stars now Who would get you the budget Just based on like It's these two huge stars

[00:36:29] And they're gonna Face off I think you're talking about The rock and Kevin Hart To be like Unfortunately Unfortunately I think That's the two people They're gonna be in a movie together No if you're talking about Yeah cause I'm like Even trying to think of like

[00:36:41] There's something about Oh that pit and Leo Dio Being both in one That's close enough That's close enough But I see that trailer And it doesn't feel like Finally It feels like Oh it's cool There was the point in time Where they were saying

[00:36:53] It was gonna have a pit De Caprio And crews And I was like If you got all three of them In a movie That would have blown my mind I think if you have crews And maybe like Yeah pit or downy junior Something like

[00:37:04] Maybe that would be enough The other one That's what I'm gonna throw out is I feel like If you could get Hackman and Nicholson out of retirement The guys we've all counted out Yeah that's the movie If you got Hackleson Hackleson Hackleson That's what it's called

[00:37:20] But this is the thing You're reaching into The prior generation Right that's the thing Like that's the thing You're reaching into the 70s Because also as you said So much of our Our culture now is about those mashups It's like grand conscious And it's And also like

[00:37:34] This movie has a split title card And it's just split Stars of all time Like you know Al Pacino, Robert De Niro Come up at the same time Heat Like that's how It's the only way you could do this But I think The whole thing is

[00:37:45] Like it used to be like If you were a movie star You made movie star movies Right Like you were the one selling something And occasionally You'd team up with someone else But it would likely be like Scarecrow at the beginning Of your career Yeah sure

[00:37:58] Sure it's like Towering in front of them The other person's doing a small part As like a favor And nod to their friendship Or whatever it is And now Carrie Bradshaw And the dude get Stella Artois together Right it's so much about these things Crossing over

[00:38:10] I think that's maybe the worst thing That's ever happened in culture That was not so great And you also need like Six movie stars in order to sell a movie You know Where it's like The lone guy surrounded by A bunch of great character actors Well right

[00:38:23] That's the other thing now too Right it's like We got Morgan Freeman to play A guy at the desk Like you know Like the Marvel approach Where they just like flood in Any star you can find That's like Batman Begins Where you're like Freeman's on the bench

[00:38:34] Right exactly He's the tech guy He's not Alfred Just make him Alfred Michael Cain is Alfred No he kind of has like a second Alfred Who only handles tech And you're like And that's Freeman So Alfred one is sort of Breakfast and chat

[00:38:52] And Alfred two is all cars and stuff Like yeah You're like Lawrence Olivia Is balancing his books It's kind of how you have Like an iPhone charger In every part of your house Or it's like Yeah this is my Alfred for upstate Just why not

[00:39:05] The couch versus the chair A lot of those like 90s thrillers And my favorite genre Like the Grisham movies They did that too Where like It's down to like Luis Guzman is the U5 You know what I mean Where it's like Hoffman, Hackman, Cusack, Vice

[00:39:20] Like what's that one called Runaway Jury And it's like The jury The 12 actors who are Barely in the movie You recognize all of them And that's what this movie is too You're like What is area shows up Or would it like Everyone in this movie is someone

[00:39:33] When Bubba is a cop like Oh yeah He's so good Oh my god Heat Okay so heat So he makes Ellie take down That doesn't go well He makes Lasthelma and Heacons He gets to near on board He gets to make heat Which is insane He hires

[00:39:50] Janice Polly To location scout LA He's like Find me places in LA That have never been in a movie They're like There are four locations In the entire film That have been photographed And he says in all these interviews Where he's like LA is underutilized as a location

[00:40:04] Like if you're in LA Or you can go to a sound stage Right like you know People don't use the city enough Which I think is maybe less true now Because they're all copying heat Right Well the other thing was Now I mean the LA tax incentives

[00:40:16] Are so bad compared to Everywhere else People are like Sure let's go shoot in LA That people kind of only film in LA If they want it to be LA Whereas at that time It would be like Well even if it's taking place In another city

[00:40:26] We're gonna shoot LA for Washington DC Predator 2 is LA It's shot in LA But they call it New York Exactly Tom 3 and 3 different scenes Tom 3 and 3 different scenes Yeah He hires Andy McNabb Who in Britain is like The most famous fucking He writes all these books called

[00:40:39] Like Soldier of Fortune Or like you know First stop glory Yeah cause I grew up in Britain Oh that comes up every once in a while Yeah yeah See you know See he remembers He remembers I do want to point out

[00:40:51] You said because you said this off mic You're like I like the show I listen to it I'm not a completeist Cause they don't listen to I probably watch more than Nancy Meyers than any other I know which is crazy Cause I also have seen

[00:41:02] Most of the movies you do But I want to get it Fresh to rewatch You know what I mean Or if I know I'm gonna do A movie on action boys I'm like I don't want to Hear their take on it But I was like

[00:41:11] The two pillars of your personality Are Michael Mann and Nancy Meyers It's kind of true though I am like Someone called me soft butch A lesbian called me soft butch And it fit very well I was like oh yeah I'm kind of like a male Soft butch

[00:41:24] The thinking man's meat head That's right I'm like Joe Rogan with feminism Yes Yeah, woke Rogan I'm woke Rogan Maybe you should like Make a compound and do your Woke Rogan High Amity is woke Rogan It's just people I want to talk to

[00:41:39] About the show I want to talk about Except instead of like Sensory deprivation tanks It's fast and furious Right Is that what Joe Rogan talks about? They're all like Biohacking and shit Is that what they're into now? He's like He's pulling from Tim Ferriss

[00:41:52] And then also pulling from like These guys are critically Thinking outside the box Arguably racist thinking Right, exactly This guy comes on He's like I'm saying something That no one will say And it's like turns out there's a reason Anyway Joe Rogan is not in this movie

[00:42:06] He's the one guy who isn't News radio is on at the time He could have He could have been like a bank teller You know who Rogan replaced On news radio, right? I do and you're going to That dude's only in the pilot Ray Romano Ray Romano

[00:42:19] That's Ray Romano I think he actually Wasn't even in the pilot No, he's not in the pilot He just watched it for I think he played the part Yeah, he was going to play the They got someone else in the pilot

[00:42:29] And then replaced him a third time with Rogan That's crazy But Romano made it to like the cable Which is nice because like Rogan isn't That funny and new He's fine Like Rogan's probably the least Interesting guy in the cast for like

[00:42:38] This guy doesn't have a comedy background Yeah, he agree He's the only one with one Right, that's just crazy He's like the only stand-up in the cast So this guy came from like what? He's like Tony Danza They pulled him from like a boxing gym

[00:42:49] Yeah, I just watched the pilot And the redhead Lily I don't know if he's going to forget her name I'm pretty scared It's a, why am I forgetting her name now too She's Christ guys She kills it Vicki Lewis She kills it the most Yes She's the funniest

[00:43:03] And I'm like this show's not even that funny The pilot, like it's like work Yeah But Heat Heat Andy McDowell Oh yeah, Ray He teaches them all how to use Automatic weapons Val Kilmer's reload During the bank robbery Is still shown to people

[00:43:17] Is the perfect way to reload A carbine rifle Which he talks about all the time And is so proud And he's like Yeah Schwarzenegger also got When he did T2 He got a soldier of Fortune magazine They labeled him as like Hollywood's best gun Useer or whatever

[00:43:32] And I'm like what a weird Corner of the world to have Val Kilmer's casting in this is so weird Well Keanu Reeves was going to play this role Which kind of makes more sense Makes so much sense He'd be great in it

[00:43:44] And he's sort of on the rise at this point Where it's like Point break has already come out He's a leading man But it like makes sense that he would play Third to two luminaries Whereas Val is kind of like

[00:43:54] A little too big to be playing this part But the other element is that he's already established Reputation as being too difficult to work with He, I mean Tombstone is 93 Which is like the moment where everyone's like Yep for real Like Kilmer forever

[00:44:06] I mean obviously he has like Top Gun in the doors That's just because he's been around for so long But now he's getting a little haggard But then of course in the summer This year he had Batman Forever Right Which I'm sure he filmed this

[00:44:17] Before Batman Forever came out Right But he is still going to be Batman Right So yeah it's a little wild to put him in I mean he's on the poster He's the third much lower than But he is playing a role that you're pumped

[00:44:32] To see him play too Where it's like Val Kilmer being quiet Oh yeah Is so You realize how intense of a person he is Right When he's not Because he does so little in this movie And when you see him Like when he's doing

[00:44:47] Even on the small thing when he's drilling And he's like let's go it's off He's like I'm almost in Just the look on his face He's been like a long The character's been like a lone drilling For like eight minutes

[00:44:56] And Val Kilmer brings so much weird background intensity To everything For me the sun rises and sets with her man Is like all you need him to do But that's worth like one million dollars Right He's also He's so scuzzy looking in this movie

[00:45:09] And I love that on the poster They find a way to take the one screen shot Where from an angle He looks hot He kind of looks conventionally Val Kilmer I mean Joanna was like what's going on with him

[00:45:19] And I'm like this is the same year as Batman In which he's very like angular and handsome You know like He's chiseled in Batman And this he's like puffy like pills and alcohol And he's got the bags under his eyes They give him the weird scar

[00:45:30] He's kind of constantly doing this lip furl Yes Like the ponytail is like ratty And not sexy And it's so cool Which I love all of this Because like why is Wayne growing the crew Right He's a disaster Right But like Val Kilmer's the guy where you're like

[00:45:44] If you walked into a casino Someone would immediately alert security Like keep an eye on that copy Yeah But he's a pro He's fine You know like DeNiro trusts him implicitly I think you The role Val Kilmer plays in the crew Is he's the killer Yes

[00:45:58] He's like he's capable of Right He's the best shot He's clearly He's like a point man Yeah And it's such a great He's chosen cordon levitt in Inception Only I know the exact weight of this loaded dime Right I mean like Chris Vernolyn has spent his entire career

[00:46:16] Remaking this movie over and over again And that's the other obvious thing That's why I like Nolan movies Of course We need the actor code Watching this I wonder what you're gonna say How do you say the guy's name Who directed Drive, Nicholas, Wendy Oh, money rafting Yeah

[00:46:31] He also is sort of doing Like the music video version of Michael Mann And I eat it up Because it's even a pale reflection of man Is delicious There are points in this movie Where it feels like watching it

[00:46:41] You're like, oh Dark Knight is a literal remake of this This is like Magnificent 7 to 7 samurai Where it's like What if we transpose this into a different genre Yes But there's so many sequences in it Where it's just like

[00:46:52] He knows the other guy who's obsessed with this movie And he says He references it in every one of his films And that there are specific lines And shots that he takes from this film And uses in all of his films Wes Anderson I don't even see

[00:47:04] Wes Anderson's like I always pull from heat Because Wes Anderson has that thing He's like I like people who are taking whatever they're doing Very seriously His movies almost always have some weird heist element Yes Yeah There's almost always some break in Break out

[00:47:19] There's always something great to go down Right, there's a crew A big music change Right For like a weird Right, but he's kind of doing twee heat Twee Tweet Imagine like Seismore showing up in a Wes Anderson Oh my God Seismore and Angelica Houston Have seen them together

[00:47:36] Seismore was in a Wes Anderson movie And he shoved someone they would like fly against the wall Because everyone in Wes Anderson movies is like so Light and weightless Right, need to have like a poor old mustache Oh boy I saw him do a talk once

[00:47:50] And he was like They were like What are your big influences And they were like obviously And they like named the things Obviously Hal Ashby And he's like also He's like I mostly pull from heat And no one ever calls me out on it And I'm like

[00:48:01] Direct lifting shit from heat I always having coffee with Max Fisher What the fuck are you doing What is their office Hey Tommy it was right in the play Where's that concrete grill in their office What is that thing It's so cool Outside the parking lot

[00:48:18] That thing looks so dope And this is the first time I noticed it in the movie I was like holy shit That's such a cool shot That like abandoned The abandoned drive in theater That they do the meet in That thing is so cool

[00:48:29] Some of these locations are incredible Yeah, they're incredible And it is like It's one of those things where you go like Do you not understand that movies are more interesting If you just put the little extra effort Into doing things that other movies haven't done Right You know

[00:48:43] Like when I get so tired When like obviously this is a movie about crime Crime It makes sense it's in the plot But when I see movies That aren't about the characters professions Where the characters have the same four professions And I'm like

[00:48:54] If you just pick a job That has never been in a movie before And you devote one scene To the intricacies of their job Your movie becomes ten percent more interesting Right it just It stands out Right and like Simultaneously like The fact that this movie

[00:49:07] Pacino's crew is like West study And Michael T. Williamson Amazing And like all these movies where it's like You have the six Ed Levin And how you say his name I think it is Michael T Michael T. Williamson Cause Michael T. is one word Yes Which I love

[00:49:21] That confused me So I was like I guess I don't know how to say his name It's not like Michael T. It's Michael T. But like all those guys It's like You're like Oh this is like The practical argument Aside from like The reputation matters

[00:49:34] And the industry has a horrible history Of like stereotyping actors Into roles and this and that You're like The film becomes a lot more interesting If the five guys on the cop team Don't look the same Right Cause so many movies like this It's like Four

[00:49:46] Forty-something character actors It's just Agents from The Matrix Right Right you know And they're like Anonymous And in this You're like All these guys have like Very different looks Very different styles Very different speaking patterns That's Los Angeles stuff Also that's what makes it even cooler And LA

[00:50:02] So a little nod to That's how similar criminals and cops are Yes You have two paths They're both blue collar jobs Where your life is on the line That consume your entire life And it's like Whether you're Latino, black Native American possibly And it's like We all

[00:50:18] This is the job we chose And it makes it so fucking No women on either team No no My only advice My only advice changes that My only advice half the team is ladies Alright Cause you got Naomi Harris You got the Well we can get to my

[00:50:31] We'll talk about playing with that Can't wait to listen Yeah No it's just like It makes everything more interesting In the same way That like this movie is obsession With a lot of the little procedural things Or the details or the equipment Also bumping it down

[00:50:45] To just the most basic shit ever If you're watching a movie for the first time Having your characters look different Really helps you keep track of them Huge It's like massive Just to jump back to news radio For a second Watching the pirates Of course Cast

[00:50:59] Eight lead cast members Who a person of color ever Well there's Candy Alexander But she's not in the pilot Yeah Which is like You're watching You're like My favorite thing And I just did this again And I do it all the time Just look it up Melrose Place

[00:51:13] Opening titles super cut In which someone has taken Every actor who's ever In Melrose Place His opening titles Cut them all in together Right There's one black person It's like 45 white people And one black person And like if they did that now It just wouldn't happen

[00:51:28] Even like lazy Prejudice studios would be like Oh wait a second The race shows off of this one Like what's going on here It's not gonna be 45 to 1 25 to 1 is what we discussed And it's truly mind boggling But it was one of those things Where it's just like

[00:51:42] Aside from the fact that It's like a good thing to do morally It does make your movie Easier to follow Especially in a film like this Where no one's like You know me My backstory Exactly No one ever shows up And it's like Right I hate criminals Because

[00:51:57] My mom was No They're just professionals And even like the other white guy On the team is Ted Levin The man with the world's widest mustache The world's widest mustache With the greatest voice You're not gonna mix up anyone on this team Who was supposed to play

[00:52:11] I think the Seismore role He was supposed to play one of the criminals Yeah Maybe Wayne Growl Wayne Growl Which is obvious And he was like I can't play another psycho And then he becomes like a movie In TV cop

[00:52:24] Like this sort of creates a new path for him He's so cool He's great in this He's so great He has the perfect look Yeah it's really sad that he dies The movie does a very good job of Making you support

[00:52:34] Like which is a very difficult thing to do You're like on both of their sides For almost a whole movie This is the magic of this movie Yeah you're like I don't even know who I want to win And then at the end when They when they give

[00:52:48] When they tap up You're like I wanted to near or to win That's when the only He couldn't win But it feels so like Justin Poetic You're like right This was the only way he could go Right But at least he got Wayne Growl and Fick Oh Fickner

[00:53:02] Oh yeah Fickner Alright so the first thing is The armored car robbery Right Which rules Well the first thing is a shot of trains At which point I'm like My Oscars are like already being handed To Michael Mann That's what he means when he says

[00:53:18] Part of this movie has never been Filmed before in Los Angeles Like showing a train in Los Angeles Like a train And he's still yet to make the definitive LA subway system movie Which is collateral Yes exactly Collateral is the one movie that's like

[00:53:33] The LA subway system is important It's like the last third of the movie Right And like they talk about the subway Yes And like I literally have watched Collateral one billion times with so many people And multiple people have been like LA has a subway

[00:53:47] Like when they watch it Truly that was my first Cause I would go to LA after that movie came out And I was like where are the subway stops And they were like I don't think we have a subway I've seen collateral Michael Mann doesn't make shit up

[00:53:58] Well Michael Mann Like you wouldn't put a pass in that to build a subway system In the last six years since moving to LA Re-watching a lot of movies that feature LA I'm like It really gives me like Re-watching heat having now lived in LA

[00:54:11] Really also I never lived in the LA of heat You know what I mean which is so wild But then also like all the other things When you watch these movies you're like Oh Beverly Hills Cop See oh I know what validate parking means now

[00:54:23] Which I never knew what that meant I just knew that it was a joke you said In the end of a thing Can you validate And I never knew what that meant Me neither Oh my god And they caught away and you're like

[00:54:35] What they tell him is parking was good What do they mean validate parking Let me take a look at this I remember a thing I was going to say earlier Ben asking about why movies cost so much money The thing with Michael Mann

[00:54:46] Is aside from the fact that they are long That he takes a long time to shoot That he moves slowly This one took almost six months to shoot A very long time that he mostly films at night Which is even harder to do on real locations

[00:54:59] Which sometimes makes it only on the weekends But you saying like stuff about Like when the windshield goes out The wipers and stuff like that You just get the sense that Michael Mann And we've heard stories of this effect Is like cool so there's one shot

[00:55:11] In which someone shoots a shotgun towards a car Let's do seventeen tests Like you just imagine they're spending One pre-production doing like ballistics tests 100% Because he wants to know exactly what the physics Of the thing working are They built an entire staging area For the big robbery shootout

[00:55:29] Right on 5th street They knew they couldn't rehearse on 5th street So they replicated it out in the wilderness somewhere So that everyone could learn all their marks For all the cover that they have to do All that shit But they were shooting it like a musical

[00:55:41] Where people had to learn their choreography 100% Every take they would fire a thousand rounds For that thing basically That's so awesome That's unreal I am so anti-gun except for movies Of course, me too It's horrible But he put microphones all over L.A.

[00:55:58] So he could capture the bullet rounds And then put them in afterwards That's why the bullet rounds in this Sounded insane Well isn't he like That's kind of what he's famous for Is like not having music underneath Gunfire either Right Like in public enemies

[00:56:09] Like music cuts out whenever there's a Gunfire Cause then you just hear the pop pop And it makes it stressful Very rattling I was just watching on my iPhone With noise cancelers last night Which is the best way to watch a Michael Van movie

[00:56:21] Michael Van just cheered to hear you say that Mike, it was my 50th viewing It's okay I watched this movie on my Nintendo 3DS With earbuds From the airplane The free Delta earbuds Yeah they're not even earbuds It's the little The metal The phone

[00:56:38] They have the two headphone The plugs So I only used one of them I was only getting the sound If you like touch the little chord The sound goes out You have to arrange it a little You have to keep your finger right on it

[00:56:51] But the gunfire noise Very rattling Stressed me out And I never felt that experience The noise cancelers like daddy layers But that's also especially of this era And with things like Miami Vice And also what like Catherine Bigelow is doing at this time When people are like

[00:57:03] Oh god They're like sort of glamorizing Gun violence They make it look so cool Even if it's the good guys doing it Sure And Michael Mann there's like So much of guys walking around In like really good jackets Incredible jackets With awesome music playing With like ultimate confidence

[00:57:18] And you're like this is fucking cool Are they gonna make this like too sexy And then every time everyone shoots a gun You're like oh no this is like upsetting Yes Yeah This is a piece of machinery That is complicated Right Yes this is fucking scary

[00:57:30] And it's like too like hot And loud And heavy And like powerful And that big We'll go through the We'll start the plot in a second But that big shoot out in the middle When there's so much distance between them And he's shooting it from behind their shoulders

[00:57:46] And you're like They're like shooting at like ants In their perspective Right You're like that's what a shoot out like this Must actually feel like And that's terrifying It's terrifying And also you know the criminals in the big shoot out They're just firing their weapons Right Automatically

[00:58:01] Whereas the cops have their weapons on semi-automatic They're trying not to just shoot anything You know so they're like pop pop pop He says like watch your lines Exactly You want someone returning fire at you With civilians behind you Or you shooting through someone Through a civilian

[00:58:12] But the differences of the rhythms Is like unsettling It puts you on edge It's very unsettling Pop pop pop Pop pop pop I will say If you can see this film in a theater Any time it's doing a rep screening Or like it's very worth it

[00:58:23] Because it's very loud Like it's very good to see this movie As loud as possible I tried to see it a rep screening When I was in Paris last year Sure Where they were just like constantly Like they have this you know Rep district Yeah they do

[00:58:36] Rep territorial Rep territorial But like the Latin Quarter Yes it's like mostly like rep theaters And I was like oh my god Heat's playing And it's not like rep theaters here In LA where it's like A one week run of this It's like tonight we're doing this movie

[00:58:50] And so I was like awesome I get to see heat And I got to the theater And they were like Yes he did not arrive No heat Michael did not bring Right so you get to watch Serpico now Not her I was like I like Serpico

[00:59:04] But I just loved that it was just like So they were just like Find whatever Pacino movies in the attic Like they were just like Dig through the reels They told us To arrive in the mail by today No no no Oh it's a strike

[00:59:16] A buff what can I say But it has a different The title of heat It's not chauffeur Or whatever the French word for heat is No no Let's find out Caps et rebbe Yeah but I'll say Right I've never seen it in a theater Bobby and Al

[00:59:32] It's just transparent marketing I've never seen it in a theater And I realized watching it last night That I had never seen it In that sort of structured of a I am watching heat from beginning to end Not on television In the proper aspect ratio

[00:59:47] Without commercial breaks or edits Like it's one of those movies where I had like seen it in so many pieces That I felt like I had seen it And I'd never sat down Just watched three hours of heat As Michael Mann intended

[00:59:58] It was on Netflix like six months ago I did it twice on that Because I was just like oh it's here I watch heat all the time I own it but I buried my DVDs So I'm okay I watch the first half hour a lot

[01:00:10] I love basically the robbery You know the armored car robbery Wingroach shooting the guy All that shit And then Pacino coming in And explaining what just happened And like if you just watch that For a half an hour It's better than anything You're 100% right

[01:00:23] And we talk about how they don't Explain anything in this movie Run slick you'll get the phone book Do it anyway Like all that stuff Yeah it's such great business And he also retroactively explains How everything went down Exactly When he's like

[01:00:36] These guys are ready to rock and roll That's like the best line Ready to rock and roll at the drop of a hat Like they knew they had the murder charge So kill everybody Like that's something I didn't pick up on When they do it

[01:00:46] And then he explains it And it's like so And then when you rewatch it And there's that thing where Like Kilmer looks at De Niro And De Niro's like okay And Kilmer shoots it And the masks make it Like you don't know who's who Really except for Wingroach

[01:00:57] Which is totally what he's pulling from The beginning of the Dark Knight Yeah no absolutely It's got that exact same energy The bank looks like the bank from the Dark Knight Like I don't know He can't be the cast Fickner Which he acknowledges as his hat tip

[01:01:10] No he's always said like If I was gonna Fickner's playing the same character He's like the mobster white collar guy We've litigated this on the podcast before But it is disappointing that It felt like what Nolan was setting up With the Dark Knight trilogy is

[01:01:25] Each movie I'm going to mash up Batman With a different film Right Like the first one is like him Doing his weird like Lawrence of Arabia Like David Lean kind of movie And the second one is him Doing his Michael Mann heat film

[01:01:38] And then the third one is The Dark Knight 2 Yeah the third one he was like The third one is like the negotiator The League of Shadows came back I guess Right It's a movie where they shut Manhattan down With Sam Jackson and there's like a terrorist

[01:01:51] Yeah that's the negotiator I wonder what Negotiator is the one with Kevin Spacey Not Die Hard with a vengeance Not Die Hard with a vengeance It's the one where they Ah fuck it'll come to me There are a lot of same-sex movies with similar hotlines Yes

[01:02:03] But this one's like there's like a terrorist Is this The Siege? The Siege The Siege is his mashup for the third one Is it Annette Benning in The Siege? Annette Benning that's like her one big action movie She wears a hijab

[01:02:15] Yeah that movie's like a little like problematic And isn't Bruce Willis in it for like two scenes Is he? Yeah I think he's like one of the generals that kind of like He gets like a power-tang But I think it's like a Steven Seagal executive decision

[01:02:27] No he isn't of course Yeah yeah Yeah he was on the poster Right But like small Yes That's a weird movie That's a pre-911 Manhattan terrorism movie Yeah Like now you're like Got everything wrong Oh right this is bizarre Right Anyway Pacino

[01:02:42] Alright so they rob the, yeah they get the bearer bonds They do all their shit Yeah Pacino comes in And we see We see like little tastes of like De Niro casually stealing an ambulance Val Kilmer buying something weird Love that And they never like explain it

[01:02:55] And you just see all these people in different places You see Well Wayne Groh getting in with the car with Seismore With Seismore was like Stop talking please Like not interested in a conversation Yeah I love that About to rob a armored car

[01:03:06] And here's a massive thing that Nolan pulls These movies being about confidence In every sense of the word That it's like These are people who know what they're doing And don't need to show off Right And Pacino's line where he's like Pop the guy because They could

[01:03:20] You know Whatever the lines Where he's explaining why they shot the dude And he's like They knew it didn't matter at that point What's their ammo? They're the best That's such a great Yeah the ammo is that they're good Right Once they escalate to murder one beef

[01:03:33] Yeah yeah They didn't hesitate Right What difference does it make? Wile-y Drop of a hat these guys will rock and roll Such a green line Which means like they're so scary You know what I mean They're not evil But they are They will kill you

[01:03:47] I wish not in this context But someone said that about me one time Someone said You'll rock and roll Griffin Newman Drop of a hat he'll rock and roll Okay Noting it down Patiently And that's why Drop of a hat Griffin Newman will eagles Soft rock Yeah

[01:04:04] No I just like the idea Of someone saying like Drop of a hat Griffin Newman will rock and roll And that's why I'm recommending him As a babysitter for your toddler So they're gonna kill Wayne grow They don't like that They smash his head against the diner

[01:04:21] Sizemore looks at someone Sizemore looked at me like that in a diner I would leave the diner And the city probably Sizemore moving from the bench to the counter Is enough for me to shit a brick Exactly He's like a throwback Hollywood actor In that he's 6 foot

[01:04:39] 4 to 6 foot 9 200 to 400 pounds But manages to be like A hot leading man During the surveillance scene They're like which one is Sizemore And the guy says the wide one And that is very accurate But also weird is that like Michael Mann Is like responsible for like

[01:04:57] You know kind of pushing Danny Treyos Career along Discovering Farina as like an ex cop Like these guys who came from real like criminal Or like law enforcement backgrounds And making them to actors And giving them big speaking roles And you're like so what

[01:05:12] I mean Sizemore must be one of these guys So they like got his like for a technical He was robbing the consultant And they were like okay Yeah you could join us And you're like this guy comes from an acting background

[01:05:22] Yeah like Treyos was a criminal turned actor And Sizemore's an after-turned criminal That's one thousand percent Right but you're like Sizemore They must have like got out of like scared straight Right And they were like this guy popped on camera

[01:05:36] And they were like no he went to like I don't like Northwestern drama That's cool He's making the George Clooney Peacemaker hair look Or this like that He's making that look tough The weir tight Caesar With the speckle of pepper Yeah I mean where's Treyho is literally playing

[01:05:51] Treyho His name is Treyho Right Let's not even fuck around This was like the first time someone had like Written a real role Is that right? Oh yeah let's look at Treyho's I mean I guess he started doing the Rodriguez movies He did the Rodriguez movies Right

[01:06:03] I mean the greatest face in cinema I really think so He lends instant credibility You're like yup I know people that Look like that exist Yes I haven't seen one in a Hollywood movie in a long time This guy has lived Desperado is the same year

[01:06:19] And he obviously before that He's been in a million things But it's all like prisoner Tough prisoner Prisoner who's tough Angry client Right up until this point he was like Prison inmate oh You would cast him like just for verse of millitude You wouldn't actually let him act

[01:06:35] His death scene in this It's like incredible It affected me I forgot how It's so real when he says like Where's Anna? She's dead And he makes that like crying The way it's supposed to And also you talk about how much character his face has

[01:06:51] Getting some blood in the crevices of that face Jesus Holy shit yeah The Martian landscape The blood dripping into the like Crash It's like the beginning of Hellboy Where they pour the blood into the ground And it like makes the like You imagine like NASA You play too

[01:07:07] This is like releasing photos of his face And here's where the canal system You know what I mean I'm just realizing that's one of Guillermo's big moves Is pour the blood into the labyrinth The etchings in the stone They also rip it off in the X-Men with Apocalypse

[01:07:23] Which is a terrible one that was I wonder if he got it from watching this He's like trails And they hate to be heard about blood in trails face He looks like a monster So Wayne Groot gets away I love they pop the trunk and it's lined with

[01:07:38] Carved with tarps Whatever it's so dope I don't know how Wayne Groot gets away But whatever It doesn't matter Wayne Groot is a little There's a couple of major plot point Like weird anomalies in this movie For a movie that's like airtight everywhere else Right

[01:07:52] But I landed to man's love of reality Where it's like you know Sometimes you accidentally do kill the serial killer Yeah Sometimes a guy just gets away Sometimes the word slick ends up Undoing everything Right And those are stupid common But I think that's like a cop thing

[01:08:09] Like I'm sure every cop will say right I got so lucky when I caught that guy Did you ever see the Do you guys watch Bosch? The Amazon show Bosch No It's four dads by dads You do? Of course you do I mean I'm all four Bosch

[01:08:21] I want to be on the record Great movie Great show But the most recent season wraps up With like an accidental solving of something That was like four seasons That's unbelievable Titus Welliver should be in Michael Mann Michael Mann needs to come back to

[01:08:33] He never been in one I don't know Michael Mann doesn't make enough movies You know what I mean Well yeah it takes 280 shoot days You can only get a cover You're like a surprise that Titus Welliver isn't in this

[01:08:43] You imagine that he'd be part of a SWAT team He would be great fit in this Can I tell you there's the posters we had For season one of the tech The individual character posters Are all like each of us standing on like a rooftop

[01:08:55] And then you see like city skyline behind it And I had to sign a bunch of them For like giveaways once And the Amazon PR people were like You ever look in the windows And I was like no what do you mean

[01:09:07] And so I looked into the windows of the Backdrop right Of these city buildings And Bosch is just in a bunch of them And they were like we want to not Just have it be like a yellow square Of like the lights on

[01:09:21] But you don't want to have to license Oh that's funny there's a bunch of little Bosch So it's like there's a bunch of But then like the perspective is totally off Because it's like Bosch's head The size of the window Like he's sitting at the window like this

[01:09:35] But it's like a little screen grab Like Bosch After getting his photo taken on the roof across the way But there are like four Bosches If you ever come across one of those Full-sized posters and you look in really closely It's just Bosch being like

[01:09:48] I'll be there in five Bosch will be there in five And he will walk out in 30 seconds Five of the heaters around the corner I don't know Bosch will date a woman 20 years younger Also Bosch's age is very confusing in the show

[01:10:03] Because he's like a Gulf War vet Or Afghanistan vet And he's either 50 or 30 He's either been a cop for a year Or 20 years They don't want to change the specifics from the books The books is Vietnam which is the real

[01:10:17] So they can't do that or else he'd be 8 So they're like He just should be Should be like yeah I served in Vietnam You did? And they show flashbacks And they don't like make them down It's really funny to flash back 20 years and see

[01:10:30] Titus well over as Titus well over Titus has never been in a man? It's rude honestly I think that's rude That he's not in Black Hat is outrageous Black Hat you can put a few more people on it They should do Black Hat too

[01:10:45] I mean he was the man in Black He was the man in Black You didn't have a hat though I have a question So this is a dad movie right Is that a dying kind of genre? Television TV is for dad Bosch is for dad

[01:10:59] Anything like that now is just a TV show Liam Neeson I think was our last dad movie guy too All his movies are like I may be old but I'm street smart That's what my dad said until he died The dad core

[01:11:12] And it was always just sort of a tough broken man They're more high concept But they don't dip into sci-fi So it is just that kind of like I have no other choice And Bruce Willis kicked that all off He's always just like I'm just a guy

[01:11:30] Yeah I'm a cop But I shouldn't be here But because I'm tough and curse And I know how to talk to people And that's what dads love to hear Dads love to hear I don't have to do any work But I could be considered a hero

[01:11:42] Because I'm around kids So I'm stronger than them And smarter than them So I have this alpha feeling I remember Mark Wahlberg When Broken City came out Which is like a movie That doesn't really exist He's in the dad zone though Right yeah He was like

[01:11:55] I had like four or five big hits in a row And I was like This is the kind of movie I actually like Like he without saying it Kind of said I don't like the movies I star in I think they're for pussies

[01:12:05] I like a movie about a tough man In a tough city Could you imagine Wahlberg And like the Wahlberg brothers Hanging out watching Transformers Right exactly What do you think Stas screams up to Donny? Who's with Wiki? You're right Because Broken City I've never seen

[01:12:20] But it's trying to be like a Pakula movie Really it's like a city corruption Right but he's like Yeah you know my dad doesn't really like the movies I'm in Yeah right of course I made this one for him Even though he's dead now Aw

[01:12:30] Alright I gotta be, you guys keep talking Costner too Costner's a great dad movie But Costner's now gone like back to TV again sort of I just watched The Highwayman On Netflix which is him and Harrelson Full of bullets boy Yeah but that's peak dad

[01:12:42] Their dad's in that movie too Hardcore Older men Like oh you don't They don't know about wiretaps Triple Frontier David loves Triple Frontier Yeah I mean all this stuff Netflix is the only place Literally it's about Ben Affleck's fatherhood Getting in the way of them being bad asses

[01:12:57] That's David's read on it Yeah it's really funny I love Triple Frontier I still haven't watched it Yeah JC Chandoir can shoot the shit out of landscape shots Like it's beautiful Yeah And then he pulled And then it's a movie with guns But also Cool wide shots

[01:13:11] He feels like a guy who would have had a very different career 20 years ago If the movies he wanted to make Were still getting made Right he would make these awesome cowboy movies With like giant beautiful fucking landscape shots And shit Right What else has he done besides

[01:13:26] All his lost in Triple Frontier He did most filing year Oh yeah I love that movie too And margin call Oh I've never seen that Margin call is good Margin call is one of those movies That's the political one right It's the economy collapse Oh okay

[01:13:39] I skip anything where it's like It's based on real bullshit Well I put it off forever And then finally watched the screener And I was like this thing fucking slaps Oh that's awesome Yeah See I'm thinking about Dunkirk Right As like a more recent dad movie

[01:13:53] But I think what's so unique about Man is that It's like It's just this unique intelligence To this kind of filmmaking That you don't have anymore It's care It's taken over now by like The like Twisted Zack Snyder boys Like you know everything's gotta be Edgelord stuff Yeah

[01:14:13] It's unfortunate It's unapologetically manly But it is at the same time Trying to be a beautiful movie Right and if you compare Which is not like a Not a lot of people are like Trying to make a gorgeous movie About men Are we talking about heat? Yeah

[01:14:28] This ends with them holding hands That's another thing If it didn't end with them holding hands And saying goodbye to each other Yeah you'd be like right It's about tough guys And they shoot each other The other scene that I think Like really kind of crystallizes

[01:14:39] What man is into Is Pacino and his wife at the hospital And she's like you know what I'm going to take you back And he's like it's not gonna Make a fucking difference I'm a piece of shit But she's still She's so moved that Natalie like chose him

[01:14:52] Like you know like all the Dian Vanora Rules in this movie Doing work She's so heavy in this movie She's gonna be in You know she did The Insider She has a big couple of years In the 90s and then disappeared She's a theater person Like she's like 100%

[01:15:10] A theater person I think Pacino respects her Like she's sort of like No but she's really fucking good in this She's amazing in this She's amazing in Bird The Eastwood movie She's been in stuff Like but yeah she's sort of Stop making movies Yeah

[01:15:23] But it is like you know He is so uninterested In any sort of like Happy ending or easy way out And the movies are about The fact that these guys Are kind of fundamentally fucked Like they're hollow inside And like this is their juice And they need it

[01:15:41] To me the action is in the juice Right what's the line he says also in the hospital Where he's like I'm always gonna be chasing something It's better than that You know But it's like the chase for me Is the thing or whatever it is

[01:15:50] I forget what it is Yes but that's the line Well she even gives it to him right She's like you're just a predator Seeking your prey Stocking, hunting or whatever And it's like That's what any dude wants to hear You're right I'm a fucking tiger

[01:16:03] Whereas Pacino's slightly more aware of it Right Yeah And he keeps trying to get married anyway Right like you know he's like a passionate guy Right Daniro is like I'm just professional This makes logical sense Right Daniro is like The best way for me to live

[01:16:16] Is to have nothing Right Like that's the only way for me to live Pacino's like I'm trying to have some stuff But it is not working I love I keep tricking myself into thinking I love Voight's rundown of him That moment is great

[01:16:28] When Voight is talking to Daniro And he's like He's like Guys on his third marriage You think he's taking nights and weekends off You know it's like The idea that it's like He looked at it and said This guy's been through two divorces He's married to this job

[01:16:40] Yeah exactly And it also calls him out as an ex-marine Which I think we're supposed to know that They're both ex-marines They both have tattoos Yeah And you're assuming Val Kilmer And is also have some military background Because he's too much of a badass Val Kilmer

[01:16:56] And he also seems rattled by a war Like he seems like a guy Who can't totally shake it off Right Which it's nice that this movie like Doesn't pinpoint those things It's just like baked into the cake But it's like never called out Another thing is

[01:17:10] You just like watch all the scenes with Pacino When his wife and you're like Oh I totally get the dynamic here This guy must have been great to date Yes Right And he's so seductive Right Until you put the ring on him And then he can't chill up

[01:17:24] Right You know like because it is the hunt of the thing You're like this guy must be so into you When you're still a little hard to get But then when he catches you And kills you in the airport Done He needs a new chase Right

[01:17:36] And he has the self justification of Like you don't want me to talk about work with you It's a baby in a fucking microwave I'm doing you a kindness by not telling you about that But also it's like I get no enjoyment out of being with you anymore

[01:17:48] But that's 90% of your life That's all of you Exactly Right You don't have a life like this She's on brass and Xanax or whatever it is she says She's just right She's like my wife's been so hopped up On Xanax and pot Right She's like the way she's

[01:18:01] And like the shitty version of this movie Which is Nine Out of Which is Den of Thieves Right Which I liked But it is heat for dummies Right But you're like 99 out of 100 Writers, directors or both Would make Natalie Portman's Vacant father turn out to be

[01:18:18] Someone else in the movie He would be De Niro Or he would be part of the crew You bring in Azaria and it turns out He's the deadbeat that Right Right Right But it is the thing with him Where it's just like Sometimes like You know

[01:18:33] I think you Did you bring up the No, no it was Weirdly I thought because we're recording Or you must have brought up in a man episode But you brought it up in Dumbo Sure The KC Affleck Manchester Like I can't beat this thing

[01:18:46] Like every Michael Mann lead is I can't beat this thing guy Where it's like there's just Something in me we're never going to fix Yeah You know And like the same thing with the Natalie Portman thing It's like that doesn't have a plot Function

[01:18:58] It's just about how tough everything Is About how hard life is It's very fucking hard for everybody And I think it does it good in this Movie where everyone is going through It And then like you get caught up in the Fantasy of like cool We're drilling

[01:19:09] We're doing this We're doing cops We're hunting We're on the hunt And then it's like a prostitute A 16 year old prostitute was murdered Don't forget Bad guys Life sucks The world is fucked 10 year old girl Kills her Tries to kill herself You know

[01:19:23] Like they like flash to anything You want some help Sighs more grabbing the little girl Oh yeah You know Oh that's like That's what you're Like a nice life But he'll still grab that girl Right and it's like anyone in this movie

[01:19:34] Who has an act of personal life It's an impediment to what they do And anyone who doesn't have a personal life It's an impediment to what they do Like either they're hollow or they're vulnerable That is like Didn't you realize what it is? Excuse me

[01:19:48] He loves his medals I mean medals To book about medals Stretch fractures and titanium or whatever It's like even just way too specific To even be like I'm casually into metal I'm third level metals I'm about the fracturing of metals now I already read intro to metallurgy

[01:20:05] Now I'm on Stretch fractures and titanium De Niro is one of those insane things Where like he's never been overweight Yet throughout his entire I mean other than like raging bull He's never been Accidentally overweight He never went to a doughy period

[01:20:20] In a way a lot of former leading men He's also kind of the same guy Right he's maintained like pretty good shape He has throughout his career Even when he was young Always breathed like a fat guy Oh yeah he has Gandafini sandwich bread No full time Yeah

[01:20:37] His nose is such a powerful Prop But also he does mouth breathing too Like it's bold Well you know There's a flip side to that coin Pause 80 minutes What if I gotta take you out You know what I mean? Like shit like that

[01:20:53] And all he needs is his face We've talked about how much face he has He's so good He has like the Italian actor septum That you get And then it gets you like booked on more roles Like if you're an Italian male

[01:21:04] You get this like fucked up septum That gets you to Yeah You know like Even Seismore has it a little bit In this movie too When he talks you're like What? Where is that coming from? And De Niro's always Bottle vulnerability Like that's the key to him

[01:21:18] Is he's the guy who never shows his hand And if he does It's that weird thing where it's like Oh fuck I've never seen my dad cry before Like this is kind of scary to watch him Try not to cry But there is that thing

[01:21:30] I remember my mom saying to me like earlier Earlier in my life Before now When I was young and I would like Ask my parents question about like Film history or whatever And they were like the 70s Where like one of those turning points

[01:21:42] Were all the leading men looked like a butcher And that term has always stuck with me I think my mom was the one who said it But it was just like all these guys Dying for the swing back to that Right Speaking from a very personal perspective

[01:21:55] Dying for the swing back to that Do you want someone who could like Work at a deli counter To be the leader of your movie? You and I have talked a lot about How much we both just like Want to play villains and things

[01:22:06] I just want to play something in an action movie And I don't have It doesn't make sense for either of us Until we're big enough stars to force our way Right that's the thing Like my thing is like I want to play like weird Weasley like sociopaths

[01:22:18] In like genre films You want to play like an Eric Bogosian type Right and I feel like you want to play Like the fence in like a movie like this So bad And you could like kill that dialogue so hard

[01:22:30] I think my dream action movie role would be You get, you're the secret agent You get sent down to Havana And there's a guy who you're supposed to meet Down there and he's been living there for four And he's like a Tiki Bar

[01:22:41] He has like an open line shirt with a rom And I'm like hey sweetheart I'm grabbing the waitress's ass And I'm supposed to be like CIA But I'm like into D You're CIA like gone to C Exactly that's my dream role

[01:22:52] The bodega guy and you were never really here Have you seen that movie? That feels like something you could have knocked out of the park Like just this kind of really like dialogue dense Like just here's a little flavor I want the pre-lap

[01:23:06] I want to be the bodega guy who's on a phone call Right I get to do like improvised pre-lap Here's a sloppy expert This guy used to be all about finesse And like the details I fucking love that And then he discovered shorts And gyros

[01:23:25] I'm trying to think if there's a guy like that in this I guess there isn't I guess everyone in this is I mean like tone-loak Like end to end to Ricky Albert, Ricky here is But not really Oh god the way The way he talks to tone-loak

[01:23:40] And it's like insane That scene is crazy That scene is I would argue that's the one scene where he tips the scales a little too much Wrong Yeah When he goes into the And he sings the Phoenix song Why don't I get the Phoenix?

[01:23:55] Did you fall in love last night? I'll take that Right isn't that the line? Let me find it The eight feels a little like Just tell me that I'll bite that It's when Danio... Danio It's when Pichino goes like full like actor studio exercise

[01:24:09] Where it's like your goal is just to surprise your scene partner He also reminds me of He also reminds me of improvising with someone who doesn't do improv You know and you're like Who? Who? Who? Look it out! You know it's like

[01:24:22] You're just like riffing off the last word you heard from the person Not responding to the content I think it's... Phoenix That's the part You just have to adjust your levels twice in a row That's going to continue to happen That is the plot Right it's like

[01:24:34] He's looking for the guys who did this right So he's going to hit up the snitches Okay He hits up the snitches Every scene with the snitches He's just trying to make them Like not understand what the next thing he's going to do is Right

[01:24:45] Everything he says I think it's just like They're like No I got this guy and he's like Bwa! And they're like What's he going to do? Right? Like that's the idea He keeps everyone unstable That's how he's able to like Yes, nervy energy The entire time

[01:24:57] And that's the beauty of the take that man uses with the She's got a great ass He's clearly about to say big He's starting to form the mouth for big Yeah Like you see his fucking posture of his lips Yeah

[01:25:09] And then he just shifts at the last second Yeah Because he's like Wait, Judz ass is actually kind of small I've seen it Regular ass Like I feel like you see in his eyes Like technically it's not that big You know like it but it's great He

[01:25:21] Apparently earlier this character was conceived of Is having a coke problem Right In this big interview that Pacino did with Chris For Nolan Right About this movie he was like Yeah I played him like he was on coke Which is big sense Excuse me What he said was

[01:25:35] I believe this is the interview that's on like the Insomnia DVD Yeah it's also on the heat DVD Right You can watch it Right But I believe what he says is You know I was trying to make sense of why this character would act this way

[01:25:47] Staying up all night And antagonizing these guys And I went to Michael And I met Michael The only explanation is This guy is constantly chipping cocaine And the specific of chipping cocaine Chipping He's got like a brick in his jacket He's just like alright Alright Chipping cocaine

[01:26:05] And it's like alright so that makes sense for heat Now Pacino Were all of your characters secretly on cocaine For the next 25 years I read the script for Ocean's 13 And I said Stephen The only thing that makes sense Is if this guy is constantly chipping cocaine

[01:26:20] I love retroactive explanations of your choices Like we always talk about Vin Diesel After meeting the rock on the table Really for him He was like well you know In a men's health interview He's like well you know Toretto kind of drinks corona And works on cars

[01:26:34] He wouldn't have a good body Like he's like retroactively explaining Why he's kind of fat The other one we talk about is like Russell Crowe's in this zone now And Val Kilmore was doing it for a while Where he was like they sent me the script

[01:26:45] And I went ah god I gotta gain 80 pounds For those who are supposed to be fat He like puts the sandwich down Yeah I can only play this fat Yeah okay I'm gonna have to gain 100 And thankfully it was easy for me

[01:26:56] Because I had just come off of another role That forced me to gain 80 pounds My seventh in a row I went from boy a race where I had Gained 80 pounds to Roger Ailes So 40 pounds on top of that I didn't know if I wanted to do

[01:27:08] Pill weight or food weight Do I want to carry it all in my face Or should I have fat hands Like in the nice guys It is truly what he I like it when actors do that Where they're like I'm denihe For the second half of my career

[01:27:21] That's fine right It's easier It's easier to maintain If you want to watch me You know it's like a The guy who had to like Go to a trainer every day Like watch Gladiator He did that movie already It also gives these guys So much more character

[01:27:36] You know Prosky Prosky You know he's a legend Durning my all time favorite Durning right Oh hell yeah So I don't know what He talks to the fences It's all going back ToneLoke shows up And then ToneLoke says slick And Pacino's like oh fuck

[01:27:52] I know you know right Like so that's the little He's about to tap out on the guy He's gonna tap out on him He's gonna tap out on him Calls everybody slick So that means we called him slick He's like nah that's definitely Not how nicknames work

[01:28:03] It's just a verbal tig Everything is slick to him You know how that's slick over there French fries Yeah sure And but one thing I love Is like if there's a scene Then we're cutting to the other guy Right you know what I mean

[01:28:15] It's like one scene Pacino One scene denier He's never, it's literally A 50-50 split right It's like two parallel movies Happening and it's And they're very similar people As well as learning Right Just to jump back When he lists the fences He does like

[01:28:29] It's the best it's like one of Each ethnicity 100% It's like you check Rostine Check Giovanni and I'll check Jackson You know it's like Oh yeah there's a Latino fence 100% It's such a fucking Harshawitz I'll take Mendez Yeah exactly Yeah so right They rob the bear bonds

[01:28:46] The fence John Voight Is like let's just sell it Back to the mob John Voight just like incredible To be like Because he worked so Sporidically over the course Of the 80s In the 60s and 70s He was like a heartthrob He was like a boyish looking

[01:29:00] You know cutie pie Right That's the whole point of him Being that cowboy And then apparently he was At the gym and he touched His face touched Treyho's face Exactly Right he's like What's happening He got two faces but both sides

[01:29:15] Like someone threw acid on the whole thing Voight just got that Like face that you get Sometimes if you're an old person Yeah this sort of pockmarked face It's like so incredible to be like This is ten years after Runaway Train which is like The only big movie

[01:29:30] That charts his transition From like heartthrob to like Like a human like grease ball Yeah yeah yeah Human bag of meatballs Right I mean he's a dog face Right and then this A real dog face His facial hair and the pony tail Is just dog men

[01:29:45] Yeah you're right Just dog men Just walking around And that's man saying realism You know what I mean Like man's like people are Fucking ugly in real life But in Mission Impossible He's looking to clean up again Yes They have some big like Right studios sort of

[01:29:59] Resurgence of playing Anaconda is two years after this Anaconda is the performance of a man Who has not acted in ten years Like that's the moment It's a big guy I kind of forgot It's good Very good Oh he is doing a Spanish accent

[01:30:14] Or like a South American accent Yeah probably like that But he's also like a priest And Cajun at times throughout that movie Like his accent in that movie Makes no sense Ice Cube is like Maybe saying things that I think are racist Where I'm like

[01:30:27] Are you allowed to say that? Oh my god Yeah after this it's crazy He's in like four movies a year after this Right and he becomes like He's in like Pearl Harbor And Transformers It's like Roosevelt It's crazy to picture him He's a translator

[01:30:45] He gets an Oscar nomination for Ali Which he's wonderful in But he also becomes this like Oh if you like hire John Voight You give him four million dollars To be ten on your call sheet And he like lends you an air of respectability

[01:30:57] For four scenes in your blockbuster Yeah He's a villain or the mentor Like whatever it is Yeah He's so good in this And it's hard to I can't Like I didn't even place that He hadn't worked for ten years It's crazy Because he looks great

[01:31:11] The look is unreal But we're used to the look now Cause we're like Well I know what John Voight looks like in year 2019 Right Like this is him emerging in 95 What happened to you John? Right Your ass used to be beautiful Right Yeah he's like

[01:31:25] I don't know like 48 in this movie He's not that old No No he can pair like De Niro and Pachina both look a lot sexier Than him in this movie Well De Niro is so hot So hot Right That's the thing but my mom He's real handsome

[01:31:38] I always think of the butcher thing And I look at De Niro and I'm like No but that guy's like Fucking handsome He's very clever He's got the salt and pepper Which is a good choice Hard goat Yeah the hard goat The hard goat works

[01:31:48] The hard goat works It also De Niro has always had The best kind of good looks Which is He looks like anybody But a handsome version of them Upon further analysis Right You know what I mean He looks like a guy you could work with But

[01:32:02] He's actually more handsome than I remember It's when you buy like Home furnishings from like Target And you're like This only costs 40 dollars And there's nothing fancy going on here But it's just a little cleaner Than the Walmart version Right They just put a little extra effort

[01:32:14] Making sure it's symmetrical Everyone in this movie is either that Super hot Or Voight Right Where you're like Holy shit what Like Ted Levine with like Where a man was like Go in a room and don't Like cut your mustache for a month Well the Pacino facelift thing

[01:32:28] Makes sense because he's got that weird thing Where like his cheekbones are really sharp But also saggy Yes Like he's got sort of eye bags Underneath his cheekbones Yeah he's got like a Boston Terriers face He does I love that because right Pacino Big sad dog guy

[01:32:43] He has like the three current Murder cases he's working In his face Right Where's De Niro is a guy who's like I have no worldly possessions And that's why I'm like angled Right Like his apartment just makes me laugh So much And De Niro's like

[01:32:55] If you pause it it's like Oh yeah he has four plates I think Like they probably came with the place Yeah De Niro's like super boxy Like Italian Suit jacket Yeah That was not the other way I was reading on the Miami Vice Wikipedia It's just like

[01:33:09] How many things Michael Mann is credited For popularizing In fashion Right Single-handedly it was like Yeah American men didn't wear Italian clothes Right It was like a very unusual That would be too like dandy That would be too poofy Right And like the Ray-Ban Pastels with like a

[01:33:25] Pastels Underneath like a khaki suit Open collars Right it was like no one other Than jazz musicians war wayfarers Before Miami Vice Sockless shoes Right all these things Like loafers Highline he brought it back Right here like some of these cuts And colors have changed But like

[01:33:43] Hockey golly masks with And assault rifles For your bank robber It is also crazy how many bank robberies Are credited to heat I know Where like the cops were like The bank robbers specifically watched heat And then decided to copy it Yeah Because it's so realistic

[01:33:56] I do love that they each have a slightly different Hockey mask Like you have the black one You have the white one The positioning of the holes are different Yeah That moment when In the beginning When they show the shot of the ambulance And there's

[01:34:07] The mask is in the foreground Yeah And if you haven't seen the movie before You're like what is that thing And then when they slap them on You're like that's scary Scary It is a weird thing though I mean because this movie is so much about confidence

[01:34:18] Like you don't have like In those scenes the tension of Like are they going to pull it off Because the guys are like laying the tracks Like literally let's put this thing out in the road So when they come to get us The tires

[01:34:28] Right like all that shit And my favorite thing in the entire movie Is when they just abandon The heist Right When like Kelmer's getting in And he's like we're out of here Yeah he hears like one noise Right And he's like That's the best thing in the movie

[01:34:42] That's the coolest It goes to like That's Pacino and De Niro Meeting face to face Right but it goes to the Like the silence of the lamb Like they're staring straight down the barrel Like first person shot And you're seeing like Like that's shot sequencing

[01:34:56] Gives me like chills Where it's like De Niro's face Reacting to the sound Then Pacino's face Just seeing that he knows De Niro knows Then back to De Niro Then back to Pacino Then the ghostly visit Yeah you see it because they tease it

[01:35:11] In like the right until they Take it full frame Also De Niro Delighting in that scene Where De Niro comes out of the building Like kind of looks around And then just disappears Just in like the shadow Like that's so fucking cool Oh yeah

[01:35:24] And I love that when that shitty guy The guy who leans his gun Against the van What a great character You can just tell right when the thing Starts by his glasses Right And the fact that he has his gun On his back inside a thing

[01:35:34] You're like this guy's a fucking nub And then he blows it And when they get out of the van He's the last one out And they just like He doesn't have the scene Where the guy gets chewed out Right He doesn't have Pacino give him a real look

[01:35:46] You just watch that guy walk out And try to maintain composure And knowing that he just blew the entire thing And so it's like And now the movie just leaves that guy And you just have to imagine How this is gonna stick with this guy For 20 years

[01:35:57] That was just cop Vincent had He's a legend But I fucked this thing up And I know he knows I did that Right That Pacino like not saying Fuck Until he like Let's go with the walkie-talkie Right The itchy trigger guy Who's like

[01:36:11] Why aren't we making them move And he's like What am I gonna get if we're breaking and entering Right Exactly Then six months And he's back on the streets These guys are good They know what they're doing And right after that is the coffee shop We should

[01:36:22] The diner scene Pretty soon after that Is when he pulls them over Has the scene where they The The psych out Where they make them show up So that they can get recon On the cops That's after Right Right And they do the thing

[01:36:35] Where they kind of lead them To this industrial zone They confuse the audience Which I think is the best So good We've got the freeway over here We've got the freeway over here Yeah And De Niro's face When he can see that Pacino realized what's happening

[01:36:49] De Niro has that Like telephoto lens And he just smirks A little bit One of the only few He barely smiles in this movie I didn't recognize that Until I was reading the IMDb trilogy It's like He smiles five times Or whatever in the movie And I'm like

[01:37:01] That's why that look When he's so subtly smiling You mother fucker It's that He smiles like Amy Breneman once He smiles when John Voight is like This guy says you're good And he's like Yeah And the beauty is It's in response to Pacino Looking around Yes

[01:37:17] Like these two guys are so professional They both respect That they're fighting against someone Who recognizes all the work they're doing Right Like they're both like You're great Hey no Because Pacino it's just like Look usually I'm dealing with fucking idiots

[01:37:32] Guys there's like some craft going into this And DeNiro is like Usually you know Like maybe I go home I question whether it's worth the effort I put into this Anyone even notices What I'm doing I like that Pacino's accent is Insane in that monologue Where he's like

[01:37:49] You know who they're looking at Los Angeles Police And he's all of a sudden has like A weird black voice Why he does this weird Like he's like Becomes this like Cajun man Further and further into the 90s Which is so strange because like

[01:38:03] When you get to the Azaria scene Right Azaria has said that Like all of his Simpsons characters Are pretty much him doing a bad Impression of a movie star Right Where it's like Chief Wiggum is I'm forgetting now What's his name? Edward G. Robinson Sure Edward G. Robinson

[01:38:21] Right Or James K. Right But that's probably Edward G. Robinson Yeah But he's like See-Hi Right It's like Panic in Neil Park Where he's like Eh, come on here You know what I'm just trying my best Hey, homie Yeah Right, that kind of thing

[01:38:36] And then you get to the scene Where like Azaria is still kind of Doing his like 70s Pacino affectations Right And Pacino's going like Oh, you know, Darren on the by you I'll serve you some gumbo Like you won't believe Oh yeah, we're going down tonight

[01:38:51] Big daddy, Pacino He's a maniac Yeah, he's doing like Cat on a hot tin roof He's like, you know me from New York I think he's also that guy He was like, I did ten solid years As arguably the greatest actor in Movies

[01:39:06] Why don't I just do some other shit Right Also, like his 80s were largely bad Well, barely works Right, he barely works And like every time he comes back And he's like, I'm ready He flops even harder Revolution being at the cap Right, so like especially him

[01:39:19] Getting like his Oscar Like the very top of the 90s It's just like cool I just victory laughing now I'm just going to have fun Yeah, 100% Right Cause you have to imagine like Having like one of the best decades That any actor has ever had

[01:39:33] Then having a decade that bad Following it He's like, fuck They assume they'd have many chances To give me an Oscar And I might not ever Give them another shot again Right, and then so he just gave A performance in a movie That like had a script

[01:39:46] And they were like, great Sure, here's the Oscar Jesus Finally Oh my god Right, alright Now you look at the camera You're going to retire now, right? Yeah What, Jack and Jill What script are you reading? Yeah Put that down Apparently he won't let people

[01:39:59] Talk to him about that movie That's fair Really? It's his only good He's so funny Dunk, dunk, a chino Yeah, he's so good He's got one line reading of a joke Burn this Yes Is that it? There's that's great Sure But they're playing like catcher Something

[01:40:15] And she accidentally throws And hits his Oscar Which knocks over and breaks And she's like, I'm so sorry But I mean You must have a ton of those Right, and he goes You would think so But no So great I love this

[01:40:34] The part in Heat at this moment When they go like What's around here And the guys have already researched The area, like the cops Seeing them be really When he's like Factory only pays and checks No cash on site This place, you know Like, anything

[01:40:48] Anything is just solved I love all So once they figure out Wingrow They're like, here's what you do You feed that to every source we have Right, yes And tell them not to tell it Right Like they just know We will circulate back around the street Right

[01:41:05] But act like they shouldn't be hearing But yeah So there's that incredible thing We should also say Just the line where DeNiro says I'm talking to a dead man To Fickner on the phone This is fucking pornographic Forget about the money Yeah And Fickner's like What?

[01:41:22] He rattles him instantly He goes, you know who this is I'm talking to it There's no one on the other end of this line I'm talking to a dead man But it's also especially for like Okay, this is the movie Like, you know

[01:41:32] Two after he does his Hannibal Lecter movie And then someone else does The even crazier Hannibal Lecter movie And we've like set up how these like Psychopaths stalking their preys scenes go Where like the innocence is like Drained out of it And still I think the most chilling

[01:41:47] Writing of that I've ever seen Is just Wingrow going You don't get what this is do you? The grim reapers But even before he says that That like they're both smiling and laughing like Oh, you don't know what this is You're not feeling the tension in the room

[01:42:01] Cause I'm like He just changes the temperature immediately That guy Kevin Gage went to prison Later in life for growing marijuana Which is fucked up Leave him alone And apparently everyone in jail Just called him Wingrow Which makes so much sense This is probably criminals' favorite movie

[01:42:18] People who are like IMA criminal You know not people who broke the law People who are like my job is criminal And my favorite movie is Heat And you are Wingrow I think also he's huge in prison Because it's like it's movie night

[01:42:30] It's like pick the longest movie So I'm gonna go back to the cell How you three hour movie Can we watch heat twice? It isn't saying this movie's three hours long I think we've said this already on another episode But when they were like selling the TV rights

[01:42:43] And they were like Yeah we've said this but it's amazing It's 254 Michael we have to like cut it down Like 40 minutes to have it fit into any traditional TV slot Right even if we take a three hour block

[01:42:55] You're gonna have to cut at least 40 minutes out of this thing And he was like what if I give you another 40 Right what if we beef it up to like 320 So it can be a four hour That was his pitch He was like I could get it

[01:43:05] If we're at like Read the room man He's like I can get it right You want a four hour block Okay I got you You need 40 more minutes No no no Slow down He's coming to exactly real strong This is fine

[01:43:17] Pacino just yells into a pillow for eight minutes I got Natalie Portman buying raises West duty just cleans a gun Do you need that? John Voight makes a you know eggs and Eggs and peppers Hands in b-roll That was good Yeah John Voight just chopping eggs and peppers

[01:43:38] This is one of those ones where like Every time it's re-released He changes it a little bit But it's so minor It's like he inserts one shot Or removes one piece of dialogue I changed the timing of this I picked an alternate take Like he never restructures it

[01:43:51] The way he does with his other movies No because honestly The idea that it's a perfectly structured movie Is kind of hilarious Because it does feel like a TV pilot It has stuff like the Dennis Haysburg character Where you're like you don't need No absolutely not

[01:44:03] You know what I mean Or the Natalie Portman stuff Like plots that feel a little superfluous Or whatever Well when they first show Dennis Haysburg Before when he's just like A guy on parole Getting the chef job You're like what the fuck is this one of the time

[01:44:14] I'm going to come back for 90 minutes A chef job from Bud Court Oh yes the kid from Harold and Ma Oh yeah he looks like a fuck Oh and jumping back to the I'm talking to a dead man on the other line On this phone Hangs up

[01:44:27] And he's at fucking it Like that's like double duty He's making that call from outside Ashley Judd's apartment Watching Like that's such great filmmaking Where he's like This is a major plot point Hang up DeNiro's gonna hang it up a fuck Oh hell yeah

[01:44:40] That's such a beautiful thing too When he goes to Ashley Judd And is like If you just hold out for like six months I will Or six weeks I will finance you leaving him You give him a shot And if it doesn't work out right Yeah and that's

[01:44:52] After he has the conversation with Kilmer Where he's like You know in my opinion Men should have no attachments And Kilmer says Well the sun rises and sets And DeNiro's sort of like Okay I'm gonna go talk to her Ashley one million bucks If he fucks up again

[01:45:06] DeNiro's like I'm not gonna get Kilmer to quit Judd But I can't have him be distracted And sloppy right now 100% So it's like I'll pay a million dollars For you to stay with him For three more weeks And I like that he's kind of

[01:45:18] A real monster to her Like he's just like Like he's That's when you're like You're rooting for DeNiro And then you're like See the way he treats Ashley Judd And you're like Oh yeah He is a bad guy It's bad with feelings Amy Breneman

[01:45:33] Who's great in this movie I love Amy Breneman But you know She's playing this very sort of like Lonely Introverted person Aspirating graphic designer Yeah Who's like moved to LA And doesn't know anyone And DeNiro is classy And mysterious And like you sort of get it

[01:45:47] But once she's in the car at the end You're like Yeah gotta go Like why are you still doing this Once he's like holding her face On the hill I'm like That's again He does like medals though He does I'm into medals When the movie reminds you that

[01:46:04] DeNiro is a scumbag Is the best parts of this movie Because where you're like I'm with you I can't believe this bitch will go with him And then you're like When he grabs her and then you're like Oh wait no He's a killer She's not a wait

[01:46:16] Especially when this is like Only like a handful of years after Cape Fear Which is like the one time DeNiro went Full scumbag Like nothing else Other than just like monstrous That he like has that in his back pocket We've seen him do that

[01:46:31] And then the couple of scenes where he like Launches into that It's not even the like Raging bull thing of like Oh this guy's got anger problems It's like the little touches of like This guy's kinda sadistic He'll kill you? Right it's not that he can't control himself

[01:46:45] It's that part of him seems like He sort of enjoys this Sure but he's not like a wangro Who like literally like murders for fun But he'll kill you He's not a moral person I think is in there So that you go like You swing back Oh right

[01:46:58] You have to work with some unsavory fellow And then also But then you also go like Pachina It also makes you wonder like Hey Hannah shouldn't you be more concerned about The serial killer than the guys robbing banks Right You know and it's like

[01:47:11] But they did kill three armed security 100% but that's another thing Right that scene where Not just wangro killing the prostitute But then Pachino giving the mama hug Like where he's like He's not exactly empathetic But he knows like if he just kinda grabs her

[01:47:26] Is sort of like 90% of what she needs Great Pachino moment I love that hug But when you're watching the movie You're like This is about bank robbers right Or are they gonna rob a bank Right you know Yeah And then come on the diner scene Yes all right

[01:47:41] They're at the diner I always fast forward to this part Yeah bullshit You're in the movie theater You're in the movie theater and people I was one time This is a terrible Rocky Balboa That Rocky movie Sitting The movie sucks No one's enjoying it

[01:47:55] Where the cobble hill cinema And then Like he's obviously about to start training And the two guys in front of me Get up and go to the bathroom And I'm like If there's a moment to not leave It's like the build up

[01:48:07] It's like failing to run the restaurant Is when you pee Why did you buy the ticket my friend This is why I'm here I would have just come If they could have told me when this was I would have just came in for it

[01:48:19] Right if they did this in the trailer I would have skipped the movie This fucking scene It's so good Yeah it's so good Wanna get a gobble coffee It's so good And such like deft under playing Don't take scores Right Yes very underplayed

[01:48:35] Cause you get to something like Righteous Kill Where it's like Now it's a whole movie of the two of them together And it's like This weird competition of like Pacino being like We're gonna see who can out act And De Niro is like

[01:48:45] Yeah yeah it's definitely out acting That's what I've been famed for recently Take a nap on camera Like it's such a weird movie Cause it's like Pacino's doing more than Either of them have ever done Combined And De Niro's doing less I mean De Niro

[01:49:00] In so many of those two thousand movies Like you're like I know that's him I can see him Right But is he aware that he was in a movie today? Yeah he's like He's like He's like He's like That's a wrap That's a wrap Five million dollars

[01:49:15] That was like My brother and I would get into like The discussion of like Who's more embarrassing now De Niro or Pacino And it's like When Pacino Fucks up He fucks up like Big He makes big hard choices They're more outwardly embarrassing

[01:49:28] And because he still has the vanity of wanting to be like The sexy like tough cop He takes worse movies And De Niro phones in Kind of more mediocre He phones in like supporting performances In a film they never should have been allowed to call him Right Right

[01:49:44] Like the director should not be He should call De Niro's agent And the agent should be like How dare you He should say He should say I want to call De Niro And the director's agent should go Come on No Right De Niro's like I see this guy

[01:49:58] He's like a tough guy I'll take it, sure Yeah I need My rider is A bowl of oranges And it's also that he's like This like conglomerate Who wants to like I got to open another Tribeca grill That's the thing That's why he needs these

[01:50:11] Because he needs to buy like A square block of Tribeca Every year with it Right Like that's his actual move He gets a block a year Right Pacino's bad shit is Jotun Which at least You could appreciate Right The element of craft But Pacino is unable I mean

[01:50:26] I know you guys Believe Jack and Joe I think De Niro is Way more skilled In comedy Oh I agree I think Pacino I think Jack and Joe's The only time he's actually Landed jokes Yeah How many times tried to do Comedy really Have you guys seen

[01:50:40] I've talked about this before De Niro has good timing He's good at pausing Yeah He's like Good pausing Right Famously takes Long pauses Very long Well Minnai Run's incredible There's a flipside to that Minnai Run I also think Is like the sexiest Film character of all time

[01:50:55] I watched that movie And I was like That's what I wish I looked Like 100% Yeah Talk to me with Joe Manginello In Key Blunt When he's a wolf Yeah I think I've talked about this In the previous episode Maybe on Insomnia or something But there's a video

[01:51:12] That's now weirdly kind of Hard to find From the tail end Of Letterman Where Pacino comes on And they were like Having more and more guests Come on to try to like Send them out in style Where He Pacino comes on And he's like Ow

[01:51:27] What are you doing here? And he's got like The 17 scarves And like the two feet ahead Right Right And he's like You know I Don't get to do enough comedy So I thought maybe I could help you out With one of your top 10 lists And the bit is

[01:51:41] That he knows he can't deliver Jokes So he wants Letterman to still do the 10 But Pacino's going to do the numbers That's really funny And he tries to give Each number A distinct line reader That's great That's funny It's so good Self-aware too Which is cool

[01:51:58] But he also looks Like he has no idea What he's doing It's weird It's like on one hand Very self-aware And on the other hand Totally oblivious Do we like the diner scene? I mean what is this It's take 11 Yeah He set up three cameras

[01:52:11] So like they just ran The whole thing They don't like do sides Even though people would Freak out and be like They're not in the same frame To get you know But that's intentional Yeah There is one There is wide shots There's a couple

[01:52:23] That's not what it's about But I think that's also Keeping with We're watching two movies Yes So when we're showing We're showing Vincent That's the cop movie When we're showing Neil That's the robber movie Right Just so you wouldn't see them Together because they're not

[01:52:37] In the same movie yet 100% Their movies are still running Parallel The tracks are getting closer And closer They're not ready to shake hands Yeah Dylan you son of a bitch That's the thing Pacino is like You were in jail You know you were in You were in shoe

[01:52:52] Which is solitary confinement Like you know Isn't that tough And Danilo's like You're gonna become a Penologist Right Like he's like Not interested He's like There's no depth to me Forget it Let's not talk about it Right And then Pacino's like Let's talk about our dreams

[01:53:09] I see my You know The guys I took down With the black eyes You know Bleeding out of their eyes And Danilo's just like I have a dream where I'm drowning I'm gonna go to the shit I wanna do Danilo's very Like let's get to the point

[01:53:22] Of it right away I have a dream where I show up to a bank robber I'm naked And all like All my high school teachers Are in the bank You're just having Traditional anxiety dreams About your career But it's also one of The things for Danilo's

[01:53:34] Like we're the same person Like stop trying To psychoanalyze me Exactly But Pacino keeps Being like Come on Do you do it for The thrill of it And he's like No I'm good at it Just like you I do it because Like Danilo is telling Pacino

[01:53:49] Who Pacino is And Pacino's learning For the first time Like maybe he's always Thought it But now he's like Oh yeah And that's I think Why he knows He's gotta break it off With the girl Cause he's like I am Danilo I shouldn't have anything

[01:54:03] Cause in case the heat is on I gotta be able to walk away When I see a microwave baby I can't bring that shit Back to anybody else Yeah But yeah And he can talk To Hannah Can say Like I'm on my third marriage Failing You know

[01:54:16] And Danilo it feels like Him falling For Amy Ranan is like Less about like Oh my god They have this Unbelievable chemistry And more about like This woman tricked me Into spending time with her Because I put no effort Into trying to meet women She just tried

[01:54:31] Right she just tried And that was enough for him Like he needed love Most people don't make An outward move to him Of course not And she tried like Four times in a row And he kept shutting her down And so it sort of feels

[01:54:41] Like him falling in love With the person He lost his virginity too Right And it feels like We gotta spend the rest of our lives together I got a woman Yeah This is a little head tilt He's doing his head tilt With the lizard at home

[01:54:52] Yeah and he like That would be the moment Where she's like Watching on surveillance Right He called me his woman I have a woman That's the discipline Right yeah But she knows like What you're gonna give her up That's the discipline Right And he starts repeating that

[01:55:07] Like don't have anything in your life You can't get rid of in 30 seconds Like more and more More in the yard told him Right And it's like He says it more and more And he convinces himself Right It's so cool And then they rob the bank Yeah

[01:55:21] They're not gonna do it They need the money Now this is the first third act Of the movie Right In order to keep track I mean this is The end of the second triptych Right This movie has a three act third act Right Yeah Yeah

[01:55:36] You figured the bank robbery Is the end It's the thing It's a heist movie So the big heist should be the end Right There isn't a bunch of the men on both sides Of course So Going back to you talking about confidence Yeah

[01:55:50] Pacino and the cops running up When they know the robbery They know that these guys are Literally the best at killing And everything And they're running up And no one is like What the fuck Right This is our job They're like Walking along with the buses

[01:56:03] The bus moves Like all that cool shit Give me that shotgun Yeah Give me that shotgun Yeah Well also right After the coffee shop is when Everyone suddenly vanishes And Pacino is like Half an hour ago That's that Yeah But yeah They have the bank robbery It's great

[01:56:19] They have a great bank robbery The bank robbery is so We talked about the shoot out of Once earlier I know The lead up to the bank robbery The look on deneros Then seismors Then Val Kilmer's face Or whatever the order is Where you could just see

[01:56:32] Three guys like Well It's time to fucking rock it Like at the drop of a hat We're ready to rock it We've been preparing to Potentially die This way our entire life And Kilmer's reaction to When he's walking up to the car Yeah And you're like

[01:56:46] The way Seismore he hits Haysbert Where he's like Yeah We're doing it And Neil's in the car And then Val Kilmer's walking up And you know it's all And then he just sees The guy across No hesitation Slings has gone out You barely see him Starts firing around

[01:56:59] Seismore starts firing Everyone just goes No one at any point is like So if there are cops Remember shoot them with guns Right Which would be helpful I mean I would like to know that There's not even parts where they go You take that guard Hey Handcuff him

[01:57:13] It's like all solid They've been running the plays In their mind for so long That nothing needs to be said now I think it's like men Right We don't talk Men don't We don't communicate To say it our story of a podcast You know what men don't do?

[01:57:26] Talk These are four men who never talk Oh my god I mean I think it's sad that Haysbert dies You know You feel that Because he liked that guy Even though maybe he's terrible Like who knows Right I don't know what he was in jail for Exactly

[01:57:41] But again that's just what I love about the movie Where it's like Don't forget this is sad for this woman Yes 100% Other people are affected Like and Pichino even says Like well when you come around the corner And you just made a woman a widow You're like Remember

[01:57:55] Every time you kill Those three armed security guards Were dads You got fucking money But you killed dads And especially during this shoot out They cut to random people on the streets So much You're like more than like Marvel movies do Which are ostensibly about saving civilians Right

[01:58:12] This movie keeps reminding you Like there are people who are just watching this happen When they get to the grocery store And Han is just shoving people From standing to the ground That's like so dark and fucked up This person has PTSD This person has PTSD

[01:58:25] Every person I touch Just fuck around The size war picks up Right He just keeps cutting to them And like close ups Like just They are never going to get over this They just watch Ted Levin And head Levin gets shot in the neck With a shot

[01:58:38] Poor Teddy Yeah And size war bites it Obviously Kilmer gets shot Yeah Everyone's basically Except for DeNiro Is out of commission I mean Kilmer survives the movie Which is wild Yeah He gets a haircut He gets the Saint haircut Right He's going to go make a template

[01:58:54] That would be great When they went into the car Sir Let me see your ID And he's got like the fake teeth But wait Oh no, excuse me He's like doing one of his Goofy Saint characters He's like That would be so good Alright, well don't go

[01:59:07] Every movie should have to do that Where it's like At the end of the movie You have to set up the actor's Next role in whatever it's going to be I don't care if it makes no sense Like a post credit sequence Where you see everyone setting up

[01:59:17] For their next movie He's like transitioning Yeah, it's actually Neil McCawley will become Gaylord Focker's father-in-law Right I guess I guess Pacino's next movie is City Hall Which is very similar to this movie Oh yeah Five boys What's DeNiro's movie after this Let's find out

[01:59:33] This is a fun game Like literally the immediate follow-up Is Sleepers I found that exciting Sleepers in Marvin's room A weird 96 for him Yeah Because like his next This movie is Ronin Yeah Right Which is 99 Or 98 That's like Which I love that movie Which is also like

[01:59:52] It's so good He's playing Neil McCawley He's playing a very similar character You've got to be ready to do blank Like Except like It's like if Neil McCawley Is putting a crew He doesn't know anyone You guys seem fucked up I don't like it Right

[02:00:04] Like why don't you all be robots Like me Right No I was going to say that's And that's sort of the last time That DeNiro gets to do this As the leading man Ronin Right Yeah Pretty much Right Like he's not going to be

[02:00:18] Your sort of like quasi-romantic lead Even if he The score I guess is Norton kind of The lead of that It's about a score Don't take scores As Pacino says to him I just don't It's because like Pacino Keeps trying to like Make these movies Yeah 100%

[02:00:32] For far too long Two for the money Like that's this head Right Like I mean if you look at the Pacino filmography Oh the recruit At least in the recruit I guess he's You know you've got Farrell To sort of like do the action That's the way that

[02:00:44] These guys should survive In these movies It's like I'm now the guy who Like Michael Keaton An American assassin You know like everyone Could be playing that role But then He's interested Doing like 88 minutes Right just kill All that shit Right Danny Brasco very soon After this

[02:01:00] Cause that's he's playing Like a pathetic guy Right Who's pretty beaten down By like He's pretty subtle And internal I think he's great That's one of his best Performed I love Sirpreco And a son of a woman Who doesn't Dog Day is probably my number One

[02:01:15] But Danny Brasco He's also got this film That I really like Called The Godfather I don't know if you've Heard of that one It's really good Is there like a blank Check director guy No he never made much Much else Yeah One of them

[02:01:28] He didn't literally take out Like the biggest checks in the world He didn't bankrupt multiple studios And like you know basically Like buy a country for a while Right Ashley Judd's hand signal To Val Kilmer One of those most I just love that The little tap on the

[02:01:45] Like on the rail Judd's great in this This is like her first Big studio film Right It's a great question I feel like this is Her first Yeah 100% She's been in Ruby in Paradise Which is like a Sundance winner That's it She's been in this movie

[02:02:01] She's in this movie for a total Of six minutes out of 180 And she's the most On camera female Right Yeah cause it's her Vanora and Brenna Monroe Kind of the same Right My dad worked on Smoke Which is the same year as this Right

[02:02:19] And so she was shooting These two things at the same time And it was like Oh she's like Everyone's saying Which is kind of true Right We went to like A repertory screening of it Recently with my sister A smoke? Yes who was born years later

[02:02:32] My sister's much younger And she not only Was not alive When the movie was being made But she wasn't like Pounding the ground To see smoke When she was a kid Like I want to see the Cigar shop movie Right like five years After its release

[02:02:45] I love Wayne Wang Yeah She did like Wayne Wang You're Wayne Wang's cool Yeah she thought His name was Wayne Wayne Yeah she was too But the thing that was crazy Was we were watching it And Ashley Judd's got One scene in that movie

[02:02:59] Shot the same time as this She's in a similar kind of mode She's like sort of beaten down Addicted bleach bottle blonde Right And Romley was like Who the fuck is this And I was like Oh you like passed the entire Era in which Ashley Judd

[02:03:15] Was a major movie star By the time Romley's ten Ashley Judd's out of theaters Is show out Has been out for like Five years and I was like She was like Why didn't that person have a career And I was like Not only did she have a massive

[02:03:26] Career But she essentially had her own Genre Totally Like there were ten years Of like Ashley Judd movies Airport thrillers Right That are kind of violent Right And like with an older guy Maybe not as romantic But like Tommy Lee Jones And Morgan Freeman Right you know

[02:03:42] Like a sort of like Kind of grizzled guy And you were like Once every three years With sort of like A sex element Something else Right And like she was just like Here's her zone That's what she does Kiss the girls Double jeopardy Eye of the beholder Right

[02:03:57] High crimes Twisted Like all that shit Then she does bug And studios are like We're never calling you Right It was like Right She's amazing in bug Oh yeah But even at that point It's like High crimes was the last Of the Ashley Judd thrillers Yeah

[02:04:13] I would say Right that's like 2002 Yeah Twisted is 04 I call twisted Kind of the end No That's basic Oh basic yes Right She did separate Tommy Lee Jones And Morgan Freeman High crimes is And Sam Jackson movies She worked with all them In different

[02:04:30] She did a Sam Jack movie Right Twisted Oh right Right Right High crimes is Morgan Freeman again James Caviesel Isn't that what James Caviesel Oh yes Now I know which one That is That's what I was thinking of Right Kiss the girls Obviously that's a frame Like that

[02:04:49] Like here's your own little Subgenre And it's like People write Ashley Judd movies Or they like option novels That could be turned into An Ashley Judd vehicle And everyone's all She's like I'll do a comedy Yeah give me a small role Someone like you And everyone's like

[02:05:04] No thanks I hope you had fun There's not a threat of Kidnapping in a cave Or something We need that I know she's just been On like 4 TV shows Where you're like Oh Ashley Judd is on Berlin syndrome On epics Berlin station You're right

[02:05:18] A while back was on a True TV show And I was going to the Turner Upfronts And they were flying us All from L.A. to New York Private And showing up there For the Turner Upfronts I'm like oh it's gonna be Like the impractical jokers

[02:05:31] And these guys And then I guess I didn't realize What shows were Our long dramas on TNT In like 2013-2014 And it's Lucy Liu Sharon Stone What's his name? Andy Garcia All these people I'm like This is like my This is my movies of my childhood It's Blockbuster

[02:05:50] It's literally the Blockbuster Video 90 and not thriller That's what TNT Probably was Right they were just like Like to get a time machine Go to a Blockbuster In Omaha, Nebraska All the people who were 20 when the Blockbuster Was huge are 40 now And they're watching TNT

[02:06:04] But we should mention I feel like this is a movie Whose reputation is largely Solidified by TNT By cable But TNT I feel like two movies That they really pushed into The ultimate pantheon Specifically are this And Shawshank Where there are like long movies

[02:06:21] That people would just be like That's my afternoon I'm just watching this Every scene is engaging on its own Or like oh they're about to rob the bank Let me watch up to that If you're flipping through And you're sitting here like This scene's good

[02:06:32] I should watch just this one Or it's the diner scene Coming up obviously Right because between Like 95 and 2005 Like heat goes from being like What was seen as kind of A disappointment relative To the expectations Relative to the hype 100% That people liked but then it was like

[02:06:48] Well it kind of didn't live up to the potential Kind of bloated Like Kilmer's all wrong for it Like that was its rep in the 90s Like I mean obviously Quickly there were people who like That thing's a masterpiece Or like that thing is like

[02:07:00] The most elevated crime movie Or whatever they wanted to say about it But it had like no awards Traction whatsoever It was released for awards Traction but got none Right it like barely made back Its budget domestically And did well enough worldwide

[02:07:12] That it sort of was like net neutral Right you know I don't think anyone was furious about how heat did But yeah No but then I feel like by like 10 years later it was like Long-tail Right he kind of fucks And by the time you get to like

[02:07:24] 2015 it's like We all agree heat is one of the American Masterpieces Yeah I think like in the The Nolan shit helps too All of a sudden a lot of people Who grew up watching Mike Wren And John I think John Carpenter Kind of benefited from this too

[02:07:37] Like most people grew up watching That sort of stylized Worlds are now doing that And then all of a sudden everyone's like Oh if you like this You're gonna love this I feel like there's such a big Carpenter Revival happening right now

[02:07:49] And I feel like a lot of it is Jordan Peele Like he's not the only one Right But I think when people go like Oh it's cool it's like a hormone It's like about shit it makes you think And then like we're sitting on a poach

[02:07:58] And like I got some more things for you Come to my movie poach Are you like You like the music movie board Do I Should we have one We should have one Ben used to watch He's talked about Most of when we cover a movie

[02:08:12] That he's seen before These circumstances in which he saw that Film are usually watching the VHS On someone's porch in New Jersey So we've talked about we want Is it one person's porch Or do multiple people have TVs on porch Multiple people I grew up with

[02:08:26] New Jersey had porch TVs Right like it wasn't a basement Or a rumpus room It was a porch With an extension cord running through The window Nothing like watching a movie In broad daylight On a cat food tube TV What's up with TVs in this movie

[02:08:46] Why is CRT such a major part of this movie Like there's the TV man Whose TV is plugged in He's like a homeless guy who has static on He feels very MTV Yeah because it's sideways Because that's what it was Right It's just glowing colors And then that

[02:09:02] And then the whole shit with The deniro's face off is first on that screen There's like a lot of They're saying something And Pacino takes the TV And puts it in his car Curries it with him for like three seasons Yeah It's in there for a while

[02:09:16] He finally dumps it Yeah and another movie Like you were saying Another movie would have Natalie Portman be attached to someone Another movie would have A guy with a fucking shopping cart Come up and go Oh a TV Right Reset the cycle Right No absolutely not Alright

[02:09:31] Oh and the TV guy Heard someone say slick That's the crazy thing That's it That's all they got That's the only thing You'll get the phone book Do it anyway I wonder if the TV guy is meant to be Like a like a Radio man thing Sure

[02:09:43] You know about Radio Man No Do you not know about Radio Man I mean I know about the Cuba Gooning Genie Radio Okay this is what we have to talk about See Gavress knows about Radio Man Because he's worked on some East Coast sets

[02:09:53] Yeah it's the dude who just Wonders around Oh it's Moonvest He's Moonvest Right Yes in 30 Rock Right I do kind of know who this is And the Fisher King was kind of based on that Right Not in script form Right Robin Williams is like I paid Radio Man

[02:10:09] Because he was like my technical consultant For the movie Right Radio Man's a dude who loves fucking movies He loves the magic of the movies I have sat next to him a bunch of times At film forum Really? He unprovoked those on monologues

[02:10:21] About how Claudette Colbert was the only person Who could do comedy and drama Cool Like I'm just like He's at least got taste Right He has a fair number of credits He's part of SAG A bunch of like New York based actors And directors like love him

[02:10:35] Will give him parts that he can meet his do's And get his health insurance Because his job is He just knows whatever is filming In the tri-state area And he rides a bicycle there We shot an overnight In Long Island For vinyl And he biked there

[02:10:53] I believe he lives in downtown Manhattan Sure He looks like Moonvest He looks like a crazy homeless man He's got a radio and headphones on all the time He's got a phone line He's got like a 1-800 phone line where you can call it

[02:11:06] And he records new outgoing voicemails That tell you what's filming that week And he shows up on every fucking set And it's that thing of just like You don't feel like you've made it Until you show up on a set That Radio Man has like decided

[02:11:21] Is worthy of your time Give me a fingernail TV Man feels like A little bit of a tip of the hat Except right after this It just becomes like Let's just hire Radio Man And Radio Man self identifies as an actor now Good for him He's the best

[02:11:35] I'm dying to get to that point Yeah I self identify him He's got credits He's got credits He's got 9 to B profile Is it listed under Radio Man? No, it's under Craig Castaldo But he's often credited as Radio Man Yes Awesome So the last act of this movie

[02:11:55] Yes, that's right There's another act The third act of the third act Yes is all kinds of stuff The trajo scene we talked about It's kind of structured like a herald Taking down The third beats are like Guys, edit Killing bands and killing

[02:12:13] We're only getting to the second group game now I don't understand your herald jokes A couple people I love in this I know There was more of a crossover In the improv and podcast Yeah Never Those guys don't talk to each other, right? No, because men hate talking

[02:12:31] Vincent Hanna never made a mod team Vincent Hanna never made a mod team Natalie Portman tries to kill herself Him going to kill Wayne Grow is like A full on heist of itself He cases the hotel He sees that the clerk has a shotgun

[02:12:48] He does the thing where he does like the fake Get the info He's like, James Hanna, P.L.T. I hate when that happens Yeah, I know The beauty of him too In the light tunnel with Amy Braneman Yes, where he's like free and clear

[02:13:00] Right, they're gonna do it And then he can't The sudden right turn That's maybe one of the other smiles, right? Yes But I think he smiles before he Yeah, he smiles when he knows he's going to kill Wayne Grow I mean you would kill Wayne Grow, right?

[02:13:12] But it does And it also, it doesn't feel Wayne Grow is bad He's bad And it feels like I was just holding in a burp He's bad I'm holding in all of my What is it? My gasses today Because he knows that Wayne Grow Leaked the shit to

[02:13:25] Van Zandt Yeah Wayne Grow is the guy who really betrayed them Not betrayed Right And so not only did he get Hanna on them In the first case He then also gets him But like Wayne Grow has fucked it up And then unbeknownst to Neil

[02:13:41] Wayne Grow's also a serial killer So it's like somebody kill him Yes, exactly Please He's in a fucking luxury suite right now But the choice that DeNiro makes which is so good Is he plays it less as You know what? I gotta get my revenge on this guy

[02:13:55] And more as like I'm such a professional It will drive me crazy for the rest of my life If I don't close this loop It's 100% that Even though Voight knows telling him Because he's a singular fucking goal guy Voight's like Because you asked me I gotta tell you

[02:14:09] I was trying to hold it He's at this hotel And I'm sure you don't want to do anything about that DeNiro's like You're right, of course not And then just like that quiet And then that smirk as he goes out the road And he says to Edie

[02:14:20] Like wait here 45 seconds I'll be back 45 seconds It's gonna take you an hour But it's played like the moment where The dad is like What am I doing And he turns around from the big meeting To go to the airport His daughter's soccer game

[02:14:34] It's like the abrupt shift of Like what am I doing There's a serial killer out there He says look at me Look at me The move also when he throws the chair Through Fickner's window is so good So awesome Because he gets the balance of it just right

[02:14:50] Yeah, he does like the Pick it up like discus Okay, I'm gonna spin this You're trying to get some torque on it And it's startling It's very startling Fickner's reaction is awesome I don't fucking know Yeah, well how the fuck would I know

[02:15:02] And he's like great killing you Don't need that anything else out of you Oh my god Now, I saw that this movie came out in December I am praying That that means that The movie I think beat this at the box office

[02:15:16] Is what beat it at the box office We'll talk about it If you want to do the box office game now We just have to talk about the airport showdown Oh sure, sure That's the only other thing I just love that Right and you go what this is

[02:15:26] Two three years after point break That's point break 92 93 Is it 92? Right? Yeah 92 right? 91 Wow Four years It's an interesting counterpoint That shows you the difference Between these two filmmaker styles And man and big will have a lot of overlap Especially in this time period Oh hell yeah

[02:15:47] And they're both very hardcore In terms of how they make them And also both like that's my two sides of my brain I think If you put like Steven Segal John Carpenter in there and shake it up That's like my movie taste Bigelow's maybe like Nancy Meyers

[02:16:03] Oh yeah there's some Nancy Meyers in there Michael Mann Bigelow's in the middle Boy what do you want to say about point break What's the whole life Because bigelow has that thing where it's just like Everything has to look so sexy And so stylized

[02:16:15] In this sort of Nancy Meyers like Everything's so opulent I'm trying to do to crime and cops What Nancy Meyers is trying to do To your weekend home And the hand process And the same sort of romanticism of everything Whereas Mann is like more unsparing

[02:16:28] And I think comparing the two Especially with this like cat and mouse Opposites at the same coin That like point break leads to these Like big physical outbursts And like shooting in the air And letting the guy catch the wave And this movie just leads to like

[02:16:44] This is being like Should we hold hands quickly No one's around No one sees it That's like a joke Like that's like De Niro cracks Like a joke Yeah he's just like Told you I wasn't going back Yeah But all the planes landing

[02:16:59] The way the lights come on And the fact that Puccino uses the plane Oh it's so good Well because I think It's so loud I think De Niro is intending to use the plane The lights He felt blinded by them So he's like Oh this will blind Puccino

[02:17:12] And I'll get it But then his own shadow That's the thing Yeah no you're right You think it's They're both smart And that's the thing It's a cat and mouse game And then the cat wins The movie song plays And I cry for 20 minutes It's great The heat

[02:17:26] That's a movie song? Yeah Wow That's something we haven't spoken about At all The music Tangerine dream right No no no It's Elliott Goldenthal But if he's doing such a Tangerine dream kind of riff Oh shit Because he's done like Three Tangerine dream movies in a row

[02:17:41] Is manhunter Tangerine dream Yes And keep and thief certainly are Keep and thief are Manhunter Composer I don't fucking know The Reds Which is another band like that But no yeah And then obviously Maheakins has that very orchestral score Right This is very Tangerine dream

[02:17:59] And talk about it Right Val Kilmer And Elliott Goldenthal In the same year Doing Batman Forever And Heat It's wild The Batman Forever soundtrack Is one of the great scores It's also crazy because I As we've talked about my tonsils show Don't Wait Batman Forever

[02:18:15] But I feel like that score Never gets enough credit Because people always attribute A lot of those themes to Elfman And don't realize that Goldenthal Actually kind of made up Like eight new Batman themes 100% That's a whole thing Yeah I know It's a whole fucking opera score

[02:18:28] Dun dun dun dun dun dun Dun dun dun dun dun Is all Goldenthal and not Is that the movie That we get to do For the bet Like if yours is Old Dogs Is Mine Batman Forever Oh fuck maybe You know for the For the Lion King bet

[02:18:42] Yeah I made a bet Like a year and a half ago That the Lion King was going to be The highest grossing film of all time And I stood by it really confidently Until like three days ago When the new trailer came out And now you're kind of

[02:18:55] You're a little janky When the teaser came out I was like come at me Bro I'm standing behind this Right because the teaser was just circle Like Right And I was just like oh fuck They're like wait it's just the movie again Oh now they're talking

[02:19:05] No no that's not the problem It's like if it's just the movie again It's going to make all the money in the world And then the new trailer came out And I was like oh fuck They're not showing any shots Of the characters talking

[02:19:14] They clearly still haven't fixed this They haven't cracked this The Aladdin shit too Like that's so funny to me That they were like look at this picture In Willsmith everyone's like What the fuck Back in the room guys Wait a second wait a second

[02:19:25] Hey you're going to work a 20 hour day Forever Until Willsmith looks hot Well it's not Tangerine Dream But the score Score is beautiful Brennan and De Niro's Like when they're getting a little hot and heavy That score Like that It gets like faster and more intense

[02:19:43] Is so fucking cool It does feel so telling that Like throughout the film's release All at home video releases Like the poster The cover always remain the same They never create a new image That was sort of the floating Visages of these famous guys And the blue

[02:19:57] And you got cops You got cars Whatever Right it's sort of a classic action movie poster And now he like did his life The director's definitive edition And the cover is just The LA skyline from the view of Amy Brennan's apartment

[02:20:10] Like it's just the grid of the lights Cause that's a great scene where he's talking about Like it's C in NM C in NM C in NM Yeah he's talking about the Fiji Bio And he's always trying to get that shit In the background

[02:20:20] And you're like that's what this movie's about Like it's just about looking out into that grid And this is also It's just part of the like Michael Mann series of films About men who contemplate the ocean You know like You look at ocean Well it's like the painting

[02:20:32] Pacific that he's doing right There's like that famous painting From the 70s where there's like Gone on the table and he's like leaning This is the thing now That's so dope It's so good I have that That's my own It's just Pacino, Dineiro, Kilmer, he Kilmer made it

[02:20:45] Kilmer made it He makes it Alright so let's play the box office game December 15th 1995 Pacino, Dineiro, Kilmer, Piven Griffin I think I know it Well no Griffin go ahead What do you think is number one On December 15th 95 Is Toy Story still running on the table No

[02:21:00] What? I'm sorry to report that Toy Story has fallen It was 1 for 3 weeks Right it came out right before Thanksgiving Right and it has fallen to number 2 In its fourth week 10 million bucks How dare they The highest grossing film of this year Sure 1995

[02:21:16] But it has this is the box office game But this you've listened to This is another children's film Has dethroned it Heat opens number 3 8 million Wow Make 67 So which is a high multiple December 15th you said what Okay It's a trolled film is it animated

[02:21:33] No but it's got a lot of like CGI And like you know a lot of business It's a bigger it's an effects thing Yeah Honey I shrunk the kids I mean you know it's that vibe It's that sort of vibe Sure like big effects heavy kids movie

[02:21:46] With a big kid star With a bit exclusively kid star Exclusively no but like I mean That was his niche in the 90s for sure That was his jam Interesting He made a lot of kids movies

[02:21:58] I worshiped him as a kid like he was in all the movie If he was in a movie I had to go see it Is it a franchise movie Well it wasn't And then many years later it became a franchise Oh Jumanji Jumanji Okay Oh hell yeah Yeah

[02:22:15] Right I mean you know I saw that in theaters I was like whatever this is Plays a board game they're animals Yeah where do I sit No of course it's the Remember when Robin I'm sorry to interrupt Remember when Robin Williams was the Actor for kids

[02:22:26] Now it's like fucking a guy named Blippi On YouTube Six million views Yeah And we had fucking Robin Williams Making movies for us That run from like 90 to 95 Where you have like Aladdin Mrs. Doubtfire Jumanji Sure after this you get like flubber Right

[02:22:43] You know this is after this is where it starts to Curdle a little bit But he's still in that zone Do you remember then when you went back And watched old Robin Williams When he was like Like I remember when I Then finally saw Fisher King Right

[02:22:55] Holy shit Oh he's a good actor And a comic And like he's on cocaine He did cocaine That's like one of these things That always flips me out about the career And my dad was like yeah That was his thing That was that he did cocaine

[02:23:06] It's not just that he did cocaine He was famously cocaine Right It's one of those things That blows my mind Where you're just like Okay This is a guy who you must have assumed Checking in at like The beginning or end of every decade

[02:23:19] Being like and that's as famous As he's gonna get right Yeah This is the peak right For 25 years it was like Well he's like a weird standup He found a perfect sitcom vehicle This guy isn't gonna transition into movies Right And then over the course of 10 years

[02:23:31] He's now like becomes a successful movie star But like a very serious respected actor With a bunch of Oscars And you're just like Well it's not gonna get any bigger than this And then he has this year where he like Makes like five 300 million dollar grocers

[02:23:43] In a row in the 90s And then caps it off with an Oscar And then you're like It's not gonna get any bigger than this And they were like No that actually was the peak We finally got there It was hard to go much higher Right

[02:23:54] After that he does like You know some okay stuff It took 23 years But like he finally just I feel like also Robin Williams is one of those dudes Like if he picked up a lacrosse stick Instead of a microphone We would be talking about how he's like

[02:24:04] The most amazing lacrosse stick You know like Right Like I just think Like he's one of those dudes where it's like Cause I think There's plenty of other people that fit in this But the most recent version I think Is Donald Glover Where you're like He's like

[02:24:16] I guess he can do whatever Yeah Best album and best TV show in the same year Well it's like that Tom Cruise thing of just like They have a lot of energy Right Like all Like Glover even when he was like a UCB guy The thing was like

[02:24:28] Yeah he like doesn't sleep Yeah He just like does shit all day But when he was just a sketch guy from Hammercatch You'd be like holy shit This guy is ridiculously talented Right Then he's like Oh man he's 21 and guys writing on 30 Rock That's bullshit

[02:24:40] And then you're like Oh wait he's super talented And he's like He quit 30 Rock what Oh to be in community for six He quit community What's he thinking Quit community Alright it's over Right And he's always rapping Childish Kevin Oh this is silly

[02:24:53] Like he was so good at the other thing Yeah And now he's like yeah I own music I'm like the first person to grant me For record of the year An album of the year You know what I mean like And he ends He's about to start

[02:25:02] The nice grossing film of all time Yeah Guava Island Lion King So many times I can just feel Like you keep on thinking That he's not going to get any bigger And he's probably going to have a Robin Williams Type growth for decades Number two is Toy Story

[02:25:14] Which gained theaters this week Wow People love Toy Story Reclaim number one Tell me of reclaims number one I think it pops again over Christmas Yes It reclaimed number one two weeks from now Amazing Amazing Number one is home night time And then goes to four Wow

[02:25:31] All over the place Yeah Alright Number three is Heat Number four is a sequel to a comedy That we both have seen more than the movie It's a sequel to We've seen the sequel The sequel more Wings World 2 It's like that but not Wings World 2 Major League 2 No

[02:25:44] That's one where I don't know If I've ever watched major league It's a good movie It makes Ben Cry Top 10 Every time I've watched major league 2 so many times Major League holds Major League 2 Really Haysburg Haysburg's in it We were just talking about Major League the other day

[02:25:59] Roger Dorn is 35 in that movie And he's like so I only remember him as being so old Right I'm 37 now Oh shit It's insane We would be too old to play the Tom Berenger role In that movie now Brutal Can you do this? The sequel to a comedy

[02:26:16] The what? The piece of it's horror 2 In Nature Call No, that's in the That's number 9 Really That's in the list Can't wait, can I do this How much later is the sequel Or is it a quick Pretty quick I think Okay This is what This is 95

[02:26:30] And the other one Let's find out Is this the second and final Yeah Yeah And it's star driven This is your guy It's your guy It's star driven The last one was 91 This is Mike Is it father of the bride part 2 Bingo Oh yeah

[02:26:47] I have seen father of the bride Part 2 more than I've seen father of the bride Of course Everyone has That's the law My guy BD Wong Yeah right My favorite comedian Written and directed by Nancy Myers Charles Shire But Nancy only wrote it Yeah right Number 5

[02:27:04] Is an ill advised remake of a classic film Sabrina Correct Bingo Bingo Bang dude I feel like that's the one That people always throw out It's the classic Why do you remake Right You got GoldenEye American President Casino People don't talk about how DeNiro made 2-3 hour

[02:27:24] Crime Epics in the same Fucking month basically Holy shit Yeah Seriously People are getting out of casino And they would have dinner And then go back into see heat I guess Casino dinner heat Is a 9 hour Exactly And DeNiro smiles Like 8 times combined And you leave with a

[02:27:46] And both movies shatter the Bec Delta Casino 6 course lunch at Bukko de Beppo Then you go back into the movie theater Marty cooks you lunch Yeah Marty's mom comes on set Gives everyone eggplant roll of Dini Slices you the garlap With the straight razor Oh boy That is

[02:28:07] I know we talked about a lot of things Like in this movie that are erotic Without being explicitly erotic Nothing is more Accidentally erotic in the history of film Than Paul Cervino slicing the Garlic with the straight razor Right, that's the number one Well I think like

[02:28:20] Food Network launched that Off that movie They were like wait a minute People really like to slice into the garlic They're like What if we just show shit like that All the time 24 hours a day Oh wait some other trivia Amy Brennan told Michael Manche

[02:28:34] Didn't like the script And cause it was too filled with blood And no one was moral And Michael Manche was like Yes you're perfect for the role So you got what I was going for Exactly Right Ted Levine was supposed to play Wayne Grow

[02:28:48] Keanu Reeves was supposed to play Chris Yeah The thousand bullets per take Is pretty fucking wild too You can only imagine what that sounds They shot that only on weekends Which means that cost a fortune And like they would wait five days In between set up

[02:28:58] I'm sure they were banging out Some other stuff in between But still that's wild Could you imagine How much time did they spend In between In between But still that's wild Could you imagine how much It would have sucked to Live in that neighborhood During production

[02:29:10] It's like it's another heat weekend Yeah I think it always sucks To live in that neighborhood Yes yes fair enough It's like downtown LA Isn't that ideal I was just staying there That is a weird place You were downtown Yeah Well you are downtown Griffinian I'm downtown Griffinian

[02:29:25] So I demanded they book me Into a hotel as far as possible From all of my press obligations And they were like You're sure you want to do Downtown You're like it's the brand baby Downtown is great If you are in New York Or in New Yorker

[02:29:35] And you're like But if you want a remotely LA experience Downtown is not it yet No It's still like Oh it's cool It's just like New York It's like I don't want like New York I want palm trees now And it is all those old Historical buildings where

[02:29:49] You're like Ah these used to be the great Movie palaces And now it's like an abandoned Like they sell off-brand Spanx Right now it's like a Lululemon That's going out of business Somehow Right Now it's a place that sells Sequent jumpsuits By the dozen

[02:30:03] It's like the Madison Park area Where you're like You sell only wholesale Handbags in this place How do you stay open It's either that Or like a rat hostel Right Like they're like This is just empty Yeah We're done I mean we only went

[02:30:18] Two and a half hours Two and a half Yeah It's all done It's heat We started talking about The movie at hour one We had a lot to talk about We had a lot to talk about If heat You have to blow that one out

[02:30:29] We're not even including Ben's Delaney Oh, Ben How are we doing, Ben? Oh, fine Ben, have you had Anything to eat today? No Oh boy Ben, I said this to Griffin Before we recorded But watching the heat Watching the heat I watched the heat instead

[02:30:44] Sorry, I didn't know what We were talking about this whole time Yeah, by the way I was like What about Sandy Bullock? Huh? Call me and bring her up once It was Bull to call a movie The Heat Yeah It's crazy The Heat This one's The

[02:30:57] No, ignore it Like it's The Predator But I They did that That's what I'm saying It's Wild 2 The Wolverine And then we're gonna get The Suicide Squad Yeah, The Batman Oh, that movie fucked me The Predator ruined me I was never I got hyped for it

[02:31:11] Because I believed Shane Black Was gonna help us in some way I know Woof Can I give you a hot tip? This is not even for you Because it's too late But for our listeners I had that same level Of just like He's gonna fucking nail this

[02:31:23] Yes, he's the one When the reviews were bad I was so like bummed out I couldn't even Take myself to see the theater Because I knew it depressed me Too much Please pretty well on a plane I believe it With zero expectations On a plane You're like

[02:31:36] They're doing weird shit The fact that there is a Tourette's character in a comedy After, or playing for comedy After Deuce Bigelow Makes no sense Right I will say I, uh The man who directed Not directed The man who directed that Phone was Shane Black

[02:31:52] The man who edited The Predator Edited the pilot Of the tech Yon-Tik And he did not do the series Because he was like Yeah, The Predator Ended up being a 19 month edit job Oh boy That certainly is a movie That seems edited Right, but he was like

[02:32:06] It truly Maybe he should have spent Month 20 Yeah Exactly Maybe he would have seen it One more month, guys But he was saying like Because I was like I watched on a plane I thought it was pretty good And he was like I think it probably

[02:32:19] Is better on a plane Oh boy And he was also like He shot it Proved the script He cast it They delivered it And they were like Wait a second I shot it And it was the first So it's like Well, I think this was

[02:32:32] Like the first one But it wasn't But it wasn't That it's like There were a couple of So that was something That was like But it's like The first one And there were a couple of People who were like Like, why are they Like, are they

[02:32:46] Like, you know You know All of the short movies They were like They were like And then you read What's the next thing And you wrote You were like And then

[02:32:57] bits. Right, right. And then like a magical autism, which always is like, you know who's good in it is Trivante Rhodes. He's the only one who kind of has everything that guy is so good. Yes he is.

[02:33:09] Keegan, who's Trivante Rhodes remind me of Moonlight Moonlight. Who's like a former linebacker like he's so hot. He's got says he shot himself in the head. Right. Right. He's legit. Keegan Michael Key is like dialed to one zillion in that thing. Yeah. Yeah. Although him and

[02:33:25] Thomas Jane's death is the best in the movie. Yeah. Yeah. But no, Trivante Rhodes you're just like it sucks that this didn't do well because he should have gotten his own franchise coming out at that

[02:33:36] hundred percent. I even kind of like the dude the bad guy from Logan who's the lead. Yeah. He's a lot of style. I mean he's like one of those like he makes sense for like a predator type

[02:33:46] movie but it just like he's good. Yeah. I mean he's in that Hedlund zone right? Yeah. Exactly. A little more. I think he's got a little more offbeat energy. You could have liked Hedlund.

[02:33:54] I'll go to Bath for Hedlund. I like Hedlund too. I'm not anti Hedlund. I certainly put Hedlund above Hunnam, you know. Oh I'm anti Hunnam and I watch every episode of Sons of Energy. Just

[02:34:04] let him be British in a movie. If it's all British. I love him if he's British. Yeah just be British. What velocity is that? I love that. Yeah that's actually pretty good.

[02:34:12] I don't like him that way and we've talked about this and that's my one issue. If you swapped fucking Hunnam and Pattinson probably would have been my favorite movie that year. But Pattinson is like I will not play a clean man. No, no. The beard will grow.

[02:34:27] No more sparkles on me. Exactly. It is funny that it is like Hunnam, Holbrook and Hedlund. Like the three like Sandy Blond Age boys who all are sort of doing like tough guy patois but look like models. Yeah you're right. They have similar names but this guy kind

[02:34:43] of breaks that pattern but he fits Joel Kinnaman. Yeah he's like one of those guys like because my wife has two types and they're that world of like scrawny, mousy like blondes and big heavy set dark bearded guys. Right.

[02:34:56] This sort of like affected tough guy. Yeah yeah yeah. Like Hoid Holbrook could have been in Triple Frontier and we might not even have noticed. We're gonna swap out for a whole scene from someone. Casting Hunnam and Hedlund as brothers in Triple Frontier is like the

[02:35:09] funniest joke in the world. That is like so funny. Yeah it's brilliant. No one ever thought to do that before. Right because they were always been like coin toss guys. Exactly. Is this Hunnam? I don't even care. Who's Arthur? I don't care. I fucking care.

[02:35:25] Did we say that on like the Arthur thing? It's a one whole movie about him learning how to use a sword. Yes we said that. Five hours ago on this episode. All right ring it up. We're ready to rock and roll.

[02:35:36] Okay thank you all for listening. Is there anything you need to plug? Yeah you gotta plug. Oh yeah for you movie fans out there I do a weekly podcast called Action Boys where we do if you like reviews longer than the movies themselves that's exactly what we do

[02:35:51] for classic action movies from like the mid 70s to like late 90s. We kind of keep it in that world and it's uh you know we I'm a huge fan and I love talking about movies so I was

[02:36:00] I'm pumped to be here. Check out Action Boys. And then High and Mighty which I've been on twice to talk about the Fast and Furious Ranch. I standing you will be doing it.

[02:36:08] We're gonna send her a flight around doing it. You might be my first Skype interview if you have to be. I'll get on a fucking plane because we need to feel that energy because the one we did

[02:36:17] for one through seven ended with both of us crying. Yes which I thought was and we we had kind of known each other but I was like we both kind of talked about it online a little bit. I'm like

[02:36:25] Griffin would you want to get together and talk and we got so into it. Yeah we truly were crying at the end of the episode. Came back for eight which was sort of like a dissection of

[02:36:35] like what we thought had gone wrong. Yeah and we ended that with our my favorite we pitch nine. And we pitched ourselves with characters. What is nine? I heard a really good scoop

[02:36:45] about and I'm going to tell you guys the second we finish recording. I had a whole pitch for nine too. I bet they're not doing it. I heard some hot shit and I can't believe

[02:36:51] I haven't told you yet. Fast and Furious is so good that like I showed Joanna, my girlfriend all of them before eight because she'd never seen any of them and then she recently

[02:37:01] asked me she's like when's nine out because I want to do it again. Yeah that's the best thing you could say about Fast and Furious that you're excited for a new movie because you want to see

[02:37:09] all the other ones. You have an excuse to soak in it. Fast and Furious and now also the Mission Impossible movies. Yes. Yes. Saved me from Marvel like has saved me emotionally from

[02:37:19] Marvel in that I'm like okay I want big budget action. Oh Marvel has me. I've seen everything opening. You're saying right here. Yes. This is what I'm looking forward to is big budget action movies that don't have cartoons in there. Right. Like and that's

[02:37:32] and I think Fast and Furious is doing that. It's doing Marvel movies just with like only a suspension of disbelief. Right. I'm worried that they will have cartoons. You

[02:37:40] want to tell us this thing off Mike? No. I do. I'm also going to I'm going to tell you a thing that our guest Alex Ross Perry said that's because I want to get your reaction on Mike

[02:37:50] as the final thing of the episode. So thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Andrew for a good offer of social media. Joe Bowen, Pat Rounds for our artwork. Lane Montgomery for our theme song. Go to blankies.red.com for

[02:38:02] some real nerdy shit. Go to T-Public for some real nerdy shirts. Go to Patreon for blank check bonus features where we are covering all the Marvel movies. Oh yeah. Oh fun.

[02:38:12] And as always as suggested by Alex Ross Perry if I can get your real time reaction to this imagine the alternate universe in which Michael Mann had made Mission Impossible 3. Thank you. Now I wouldn't skip one in the rewatch.

[02:38:29] Okay so here's what I heard about Fast and Furious.