[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Though a kid of Zeus is asking me to jump into the fray
[00:00:25] My answer is two words, podcast Two words, podcast But the joke David you understand is that in the song it feels like he is winding up to say no way
[00:00:39] He's got the arms, he's going no way and then Zeus hits him with the lightning and then he says okay And it's a reversal, okay is also not two words, podcast is not two words
[00:00:51] Also I just went through every other song in this movie and they're either too hard to sing or too lyrically hard to put podcast into or both So I decide to do the one that Danny DeVito kind of quote unquote sings You were drawn to DeVito, that's fair
[00:01:04] Yeah, yeah, that's my vocal range is DeVito Hey kid You know, well we'll talk about it but you know that like someone who they audition for that role was like You're just gonna hire DeVito, right?
[00:01:19] In 1993 when this was like in the gong show period of Disney animation where like anyone could pitch any movie Someone pitched Hercules, it like developed a little, it laid dormant and the key part of that pitch was the sidekick is Danny DeVito
[00:01:36] Like everyone was in such a like romancing the stone you gotta have Danny DeVito chasing the heroes helping him out kind of mode That was part of the pitch
[00:01:44] Then Muscar and Clements pick it up a couple years later they redevelop pretty much the entire thing and they're like It should be Danny DeVito as the sidekick, right? They go to Danny DeVito, Danny DeVito is like hard pass, no go fuck yourself
[00:01:56] They auditioned everyone else in Hollywood and everyone's like what are you doing, you're gonna cast DeVito Why are you wasting my time? And the- It's Red Buttons Right Who was the one who was like just hired DeVito, what are you doing?
[00:02:09] They also auditioned like Dick Lettessa and Ed Asner Like every ornery guy Every grump Every grump And it's Borg9 Right, Borg9, they just everybody Borg9 was willing to take a break from his non-stop masturbation schedule to put down an audition for Philatides
[00:02:29] And then apparently they ambushed DeVito while he was eating pasta on the state of, instead of Matilda Did you see this? They ambushed him during a pasta dinner Which is, I mean, you know, I find that I find that very offensive
[00:02:43] Of course, you can't interrupt a pasta dinner There's nothing more intimate Exactly Than a pasta dinner And I also want to circle back because it got no response Am I the only one who remembers the thing where Ernest Borg9 was on The Today Show
[00:02:57] And they asked him what his secret was to living so long He jerks off all the time Right, it was whoever it was on the show He like leans in and whispers as if he doesn't know how microphones work
[00:03:09] And then the sound team fully picks up him saying I masturbate a lot I masturbate a lot Uh, let me see who he's doing it to It's someone on Fox News Oh boy It's like one of the Fox, you know, fascists It's one of those guys
[00:03:28] He said it's a bill O'Reilly It's not even that though It's like just one of the like, look Introduce the show, introduce our guest We're so deep already We had to go in the deep We're deep on a Borg9 jerk off tangent Yeah, David O'Pon's the dinner
[00:03:44] Borg9 yanking it This might be our horniest episode ever Just talking about two short hairy guys in their sex lives Folks, this is a podcast about A here-suit egg-shaped character actors It's called Blank Check with Griffin and David I'm Griffin I'm David
[00:04:03] Uh, and it's not actually about that It's about filmographies It's about directors who have massive success Early on in their careers And are given a series of blank checks To make whatever crazy passion projects they want And sometimes those checks clear And sometimes they go the distance, baby
[00:04:19] This is a mini-series on the films Of Musker and Clements The Disney renaissance Through the eyes of these two guys Who kind of had The exact, like, kind of The perfect arc to be able to look at This 30-year journey The part of the studio went on
[00:04:38] And that kind of changed American animation In general forever Today we're talking 1997's Hercules Arguably their first bounce Right? I suppose so I mean it did alright But I suppose it underwhelmed I think this is a soft bounce And then Treasure Planet's a huge bounce
[00:05:00] That's the big one This one is the trouble in the water This is the sort of like, oh You know, we're having trouble with the formula But this is also that weird point Where the Disney movies have gotten so big That like this and Hunchback
[00:05:13] Back to back making around a hundred million dollars Suddenly looks like a disaster Because the movies had become humongous And expensive And I'll say this Our guest today, we have an incredible guest today And he is being so respectful But what he doesn't know
[00:05:32] Is that's the opposite of what we like here We live for the drama and we love When a guest speaks before they're introduced That's how we like to operate You won't do it I'm just supposed to get in here No, this has been really informative
[00:05:51] Because I'm just absolutely shocked I call this a dip To me this is like a Bible canon Pentateuch movie And you're citing an hundred million dollar gross My wikipedia showing me 252 on an 85 million budget Is this over time? Adjust if we're inflation, what is that? That's worldwide
[00:06:21] I will admit Larry I'm a big box office nerd Our guest today of course An incredible comedian, incredible actor Winner of a drama desk award Needs no intro Let's just dive into brass facts I'm supposed to elbow my way in here Larry, Owens, motherfucker
[00:06:41] One of the funniest people on the planet One of those talented people I've ever seen First time I ever saw you perform What did I say to you? Is he supposed to remember? Something kind, I hope Yeah, I said you're the biggest star in the world
[00:06:58] I truly feel that every time I've seen you perform Larry You are going to be the biggest star in the world You're one of the most talented people I've ever witnessed In any capacity In addition to being incredibly funny and smart Not as smart as you guys
[00:07:13] Because I don't know any of the technical stuff I truly like my eyes are right now Being open to like, oh yes Animated movies have directors To me they are like such the property of The composer, the lyricist Obviously are like stars
[00:07:30] And just to look at this trajectory That Musker and Clemence Yeah, shocked that they didn't do Beauty and the Beast They didn't They did not No, that's the one they didn't do There's like this alternation They were sort of the default directors
[00:07:47] Every other movie would be directed by some other team And the other teams never solidified themselves As much as Musker and Clemence Who did a lot of films together and always together But like the Lion King guys don't make a movie together again
[00:08:01] After that, I think, you know And that was sort of seen as the B-Team movie In a lot of ways Hercules was supposed to be I mean here's, look Larry We're not smart, we're just big ol' fuckin' dorks And we're connoisseurs of context
[00:08:17] And David and I collect all this goddamn information But the story we're kinda telling Over the arc of these movies And to some degree, usually our show is a little more Autour based, but talk about Musker and Clemence We really are talkin' more about the Autourism
[00:08:33] Of the Disney Renaissance And of Menken and Ashman, you know And this is the first movie we're covering Where Ashman is fully gone Where he's left no work behind It's Menken charting new path without him And Ashman was very much a big kind of Autour figure
[00:08:50] In Aladdin and Little Mermaid And Beauty and the Beast, which we did not cover Yeah, the Howard Ashman legacy is a huge It is like one of maybe the only historical talking points Which I have in regards to this movie
[00:09:11] In that I lament the passing of Howard Ashman I guess marked significantly by this movie Just in terms of like a musical theater Lover born in the late 20th century Because to me, that marriage of humor, reference And pop sensibility It's almost all of any Disney score
[00:09:39] In the 20th century is a pastiche It's a pastiche score of writing songs That sound like other things And then of course there is like the Disney sound Of like Go The Distance Those sort of sweeping I want song And I feel like Howard Ashman just
[00:09:54] In terms of using that device And keeping it so earnest and unironic Like now everything is a comment On sort of that sensibility And I don't like it But I feel like Howard Ashman had just the perfect amount Of understanding of grit and nuance
[00:10:15] And like honestly vaudevillian humor As well as like pop styling And like I don't know, it's just like that Like sensibility, modern sensibility I couldn't agree more And we've talked about it in some of the other episodes But it's like Lil Choppa Horrors is my favorite musical ever
[00:10:32] And that's such a good example Of something which on its face seems like A totally ironic experiment Yeah, he's adapting a crappy B movie Right, it's something like this shouldn't be a musical No one cares about this movie And the amount of emotion and intelligence
[00:10:51] You can abuse into it But I also think it was like so much of it Was his sort of you can If you understand the fundamental tenets Of storytelling and of the power of music In storytelling, you can turn anything Into a functional story, you know? Yeah, literally
[00:11:10] And into like a huge hit And I feel like it is Howard Ashman He was the artistic director Co-archist director of this very, very Intentionally small theater Called the WPA Theater And something about my career Having worked only off-Broadway Like I've never been in a Broadway show
[00:11:30] But I have been a part of a Pulitzer Prize-winning musical So the sort of skewed impact Perception of Broadway versus The work that can happen in small spaces And then how that translates To the global stage Like I feel like by perfecting
[00:11:49] Moments for that few people a night It totally informs The intimacy that comes across Even in these big budget movies And I just feel like it's just such Like fascinating sensibility And being another gay man from Baltimore I feel like there is like Something in the water
[00:12:09] And I'm like I want to be era parent Yeah, no but I do I think you have that sensibility In all the work I've seen you do I mean for folks who don't know And should educate themselves I mean you have such an interesting Sort of like combination
[00:12:25] Of influences in background In that you have like musical theater training But also kind of like hardcore theater Step and wolf training And then came to New York And sort of found yourself doing stand up Very much stand up on your own terms And so you approach things
[00:12:43] From like a couple different minds equally And this movie is in a certain way At a cross section of a lot of those things And I feel like it is It is, I encountered this movie in Latin class So I went to a nativity school
[00:12:58] Which means that it was all these Like really smart little black boys And our education was paid for by like Nice kind Catholics in the neighborhood And but they like it was like a really great Education to you know get us out the hood
[00:13:10] And you know onto podcasts And so we all were required to take Latin And to like we were learned about mythology And then we watched this movie Over a series of class periods And I was just like yeah I get this Like I understand the mythology
[00:13:26] It's the sound of like my black church That I like go to every Sunday And then it's like this Disney story Which is all about like fantasy and destiny And like meeting your fate Like it's day, muskier and Clemens Yeah, yeah, yeah and it is
[00:13:44] I mean it's funny like we're talking about Ashman so much but this is like The first post-Ashman Menken But yet you still really feel his Shadow on it, there's still very much Using sort of all the lessons I feel like he imbued
[00:14:00] Yeah storytelling wise, also in terms of Let's blend a familiar fairy tale myth Whatever with like Hollywood Old Hollywood right, like this is A little screwball and it's got like Kind of like you know Well I mean he's a himbo right
[00:14:20] Like a big you know sort of fun Doofus as the lead and then a bunch of Wisecrack and like that's all Ashman energy I guess Totally, I mean that's the self-referential stuff You're talking about Larry the sort of Knowing sort of mashup of different
[00:14:34] Pop culture elements it's like You're taking Greek mythology Like that's the patina that they're Based in then you're like Mapping sort of Screwball comedy energy Like Tex Avery animation energy Then the score is very much feels Like Phil Spectery you know I feel like
[00:14:54] Like the Ronettes are the main like Touchstone for like aside from Go the Distance is the one that just feels There's always we were talking about this There's always the one that they just Had to make as adult contemporary Easy listening adjacent as possible
[00:15:11] It's like who's gonna sing it over the credit song Right so they had the Michael Boatlin Version of Go the Distance Yeah I feel like this movie is brilliant There's a rule in the musical theater that You have the first 15 minutes to establish
[00:15:23] All of the rules like that are gonna be at play And so like in this like In like this like opening shot you get this Like Charlton Heston voiceover so like Immediately Old Hollywood then We like go to Mount Olympus and it's
[00:15:36] You know we're storytelling of these muses It's very like contemporary Like this is still happening now and then There are like so many like references that follow Like that where like the Hercules branding It's like they're almost like Jordan sneakers And like very Very 1997 is true
[00:15:52] Yes it's so 1997 And we just like And it's a story and I feel like it's just like By it being mythology It just so easily lends itself Like it is the actual hero's journey Yeah And that earnestness is captured as well
[00:16:08] In that first moat and like in that First 15 minutes of like Yeah this is gonna be this type of ride How Yeah I just don't ask the questions No ask the question No I just love Howard Asher Like you keep talking about Howard Asher
[00:16:25] I mean we've been talking about him Because you know we did Lil Mermaid We did Aladdin obviously Yeah part of your world and Somewhere that's green kind of the same song But honestly like use what you know Like Yeah it also If you write one song that good
[00:16:41] You're allowed to use it five times Like it's so good and they both Work so So wow Like for what they do For what they do in these I just love I feel like the only musicals It's like been able to Bridge that gap
[00:16:58] Maybe because it's source material But it's hairspray where it's like Each number is pastiche Like they can like sometimes go low But like mostly it is just like Yeah let this little fat girl dance And so it's like yeah let this him bow Like Find his dad
[00:17:14] His parents But also that weird balance Of just like kitsch with With the genuine feeling You know That doesn't just feel like it's in air quotes That's I mean that's the other part Of the soup on this is like Muscle and Clements weren't really
[00:17:32] Musical guys or fairy tale guys Right And then they make these two humongous Disney musicals But the thing they wanted to do The entire time was Treasure Planet Right That's the one post Aladdin They're like now can we do Treasure Planet The movie we've always wanted to do
[00:17:49] Cause from the 80s Every time they got to make a movie Their first film is Great Mouse Detective Every time when the studio is like Great job what do you want to do next They're like Treasure Planet We want to do fucking Treasure Island in space
[00:18:02] With no songs it's not a comedy It's a straight sci-fi adventure movie And every time they be like That sounds too fucking weird You have to do one more movie That we want you to do And then you can do Treasure Planet And they just kept like
[00:18:15] Lucy Van Pelt lifting the football And never letting them make Treasure Planet So wait do you want to know what Much like last time with Aladdin They picked between a bunch of projects Do you want to know what the three were this time Do you know
[00:18:27] No I just know I mean it's wild cause Aladdin was So fucking big The biggest animated film ever The biggest film of that year And still they were like You have to do one more commercial movie Before you can make Treasure Planet
[00:18:41] So then right they looked in the pile Of all the stuff from the 90s What were the other two Well Hercules wasn't any of them First the three that they mulled were Don Quixote Apparently Disney had a Don Quixote Lined up around the world
[00:18:55] In 80 days and the Odyssey Which was their initial Like thought well we'll do like A Greek mythology thing which And then they realized that There was like a Hercules pitch That was simpler and that's what they Finally elated on They wanted to do a superhero movie
[00:19:13] They were like okay we can That can be the Hercules pitch I was gonna say that's the final Element in the soup of this movie Which is they had been wanting to do Like just a straight boys adventure Movie And so they saw this and they were like
[00:19:27] This is an opportunity to do Superman We could do Superman as a screwball Musical comedy influenced By Phil Specter wall of sound pop He is definitely like heroic And it follows like Oftentimes the laws of that Sort of genre It's definitely not the dominant
[00:19:49] Sort of like energy of the movie I think in a good way Because the music I just always come back to it But okay so first of all Treasure Island honestly Sounds good I want to know have you watched it
[00:20:06] And like does it like hold up in a secret way Where it's like yeah it flopped But like we're doing that I love what you That's our next episode It's one of those things that has It has its cult for sure There's a whole generation that saw that
[00:20:19] At the right age that's like no that movie's good So I'm hoping yes I'm hoping That we're gonna watch it and be like Oh yeah this thing is great Treasure Island for these two Elderly even at the time men Like that being just like there
[00:20:36] I have to do this Honestly makes sense And then also chronologically Like their space interest And then probably like Their peak of this that's Entertainment is probably like Raiders of the Lost Ark Or Indiana Jones That's where their heart lies And this is literally like
[00:20:58] Matt and Neyfluff to them I get it I understand their psyche I guess Yes I think I wouldn't say Like I think they care about all the movies They made but it was one of those things Where it's like if we could make anything
[00:21:10] If we had the blank check as The premise of this podcast proposes Right they were like this is the thing We'd most want to see You just had the title of the play Inside of the play I love that Thank you
[00:21:23] I mean the superhero stuff comes into play And Superman in particular I think They look at the changes they make To the Hercules myth itself Right where he's essentially this abandoned Orphan from another world rather than The product of a god Seducing Oh he's both
[00:21:41] He's a product of a god And through a series of You know godlike events He is believed to be an orphan But much like Annie That's true he's a bit of a little Orphan Annie but they drop the he's half Mortal Because Zeus like to get around
[00:22:00] When he was visiting Earth they have to drop that That's too much for the first 15 minutes No we're not really going to do Nookie Zeus and Hera become the parents And which actually It aligns with tenets Of Latin class mythology In that they were husband and wife
[00:22:16] Yes right I mean They don't want to have to show Zeus Using trickery To fuck a woman on earth In the first 15 minutes It's also like the song you have to write about that Right right it's just no one wants any of that But so their work around
[00:22:32] Is they essentially give him like the Superman myth Where it's like he was the golden child Of the two golden people in the golden place And then he got sent down To Earth I mean in this case he's stolen You know but it's like he's there
[00:22:44] He doesn't know his background He's raised by two kindly farmers And then at a certain age Finds out his birth right and has to figure out How to like fill out the suit So I feel like that's the superhero Side of it And there's that 30 minute chunk
[00:23:00] Of the movie that feels like it's really Following that kind of Superman The movie arc and then once Meg comes in I feel like it Fully just loses to That energy which I Think is the right decision A far better energy Meg is the because the musker
[00:23:18] I think it's musker yeah I have this interview Right we wanted to do the screwball thing Where Hercules is Jimmy Stewart right he's like the The lovable Doide idealist and Meg Is like Barbara Stanwyck in the Lady Eve Or whatever right like Meg is Meg is the prickly
[00:23:36] They feel so much I mean Have you seen Lady Eve Larry No one of the greatest comedies Of all time put it on the playlist Right after Treasure Planet But I feel like the Henry Of Samwick Dynamic is almost identical To this where it's like incredibly powerful
[00:23:52] Privileged man who's sort of Oblivious and easily duped And the very worldly wise Fast talk And damn yeah and honestly it was refreshing To see I loved the Subversion of trope here I think Something that maybe lean in Powerful feminine energy Man has done
[00:24:12] It was all reading to me is honestly Very true to life and I think The reasons why You know we have a bunch of women We have curvy black women We have Meg And you know very much like you will never
[00:24:26] Like I like love is like the last thing And she's honestly nefarious She's a little twisted Or I don't know She a prisoner of war or something I don't like what is that It's she her boyfriend Died She made a deal with Hades to bring him back
[00:24:44] To life and then the boyfriend ended up leaving her Anyway it's sort of similar Giving me a little of that What's her name Not Euryphe What's her name It's in Hades town Who does she play? Yeah you're her to see Yeah it's like Euryphe's no bitch
[00:25:04] She's Eurytesy and then his name Who does she turn in the pomegranate Who does she turn round for Orpheus is the one who wants to get her back It's incredible it was thinking a lot About Hades town watching this You were? Well just another Hades A different Hades
[00:25:22] Because the Hades in Hercules He's this we'll talk about James Woods But you know he's like a Hollywood agent Right he's like chatty And he's jokie and he's kind of cynical And then the Hades I was thinking about Patrick Page Patrick Page and Hades town is not
[00:25:38] I don't know if Patrick Page is giving Jimmy Woods is giving Yeah fast talking neurotic Yes very neurotic Literally cigar smoking Did you see Larry the public theater Production of Disney Hercules a couple years ago No I was very curious about that
[00:25:58] And it seemed like that was probably Like it felt like this must be a prelude They're trying it out before they try to bring it to Broadway And then there was never any talk of that I mean like that production got such good reviews
[00:26:08] And then there never seemed to be any movement On bringing that thing to Broadway and the cast was so good I know Jelani Aladdin as Hercules This is what we want to see Chris Rodriguez as Meg Fucking Slam Dunk Textbook Meg Roger Bart moving from singing voice
[00:26:24] Of young Hercules to Hades That's a great Easter egg That was fun but the last Bit of chat about that was This summer Menken said No it'll happen it'll go to Broadway Like we have an adaptation ready Whenever There is a Broadway again So hopefully that will happen
[00:26:44] To me that is indication of This movie being like beloved in a hit Like Disney movies don't get traction Unless they have that built in audience And just the generation comes of age Like right like the kids who saw this movie Are now ticket buying
[00:26:58] Grown ups I don't know I think there's another factor here I mean I need to do a little bit Of not me a culpa But sort of like addressing I in a recent episode Said that this movie was my favorite Movie of all time when it came out
[00:27:14] And that I don't even like it anymore That I had rewatched it some years back And was pretty nonplussed about it And I rewatched it today For this and I don't know what the fuck Was wrong with me the last time I watched this movie
[00:27:26] But like Toy Story Was my big fucking movie for like Four years ago My parents take me to see Hercules I turn to them afterwards and I go It's a tie Hercules is tied It's the only movie I've seen That's as good as Toy Story
[00:27:42] And then like Toy Story 2 Comes out a couple years later That usurps it Hercules sort of falls off from the brain I had rewatched it a lot Like 97, 98, 99 But then I don't see it for a while And I feel like I watched it
[00:27:58] Very drunk on Netflix like five years ago I think it was a thing Mad at Hercules, you weren't into it I think part of it was That I was like Watching a movie I hadn't seen for almost 20 years And Remembered as being my favorite movie
[00:28:14] And I burned it with unrealistic expectations Much like the phenomena that happens When adult men see Star Wars movies And get angry that they don't make them feel like a six year old Anymore One of our great ills of society I was able to apply the perspective
[00:28:30] This time watching Hercules That I always try to apply when I see a new Star Wars movie Which is this movie will not Make me forget that the world is bad Because I know too much now The other part of it is I think when I get drunk
[00:28:44] I have a very hard time watching movies that are fast I become very aware of like edits And rhythms and this movie is So frantically paced It is just like The entire movie has genie energy It's quick, quick, quick, quick Very quick So we have Our lead
[00:29:04] Then we have five narrators Five narrators Who sing on pitch and in harmony Yeah a little great chord We had Charles Vanessa never to be heard of until the end of the movie Then he has a nemesis His nemesis has two henchmen Then He gets A love interest
[00:29:24] A woman enters And then he gets a coach And he has parents And then adopt a parent So there's four parents There's a ton of characters And just like pain and panic Pegasus who is like his BFF There's the titans
[00:29:42] There's a bunch of titans that show up late You know, there's all that And the fates I mean there's also just like Greek mythology is so dense There's so much more world building And the movies is a character Yes, we literally see every god
[00:29:56] Lord Case G on Mount Olympus All doing bitch Paul Schaefer as Hermes Paul Schaefer as Hermes icon Looks like him It looks like if they did such a good job with that animation You're like that's Paul Schaefer It's Paul Schaefer I remember this being one of the
[00:30:14] Kid movies that my dad took My brother and I too that he actually clearly liked But when he would talk to his friends I'd hear my dad in the phone be like I'd tell him the kids to see Herculee say That movie was actually funny
[00:30:26] And the only thing he would cite is Paul Schaefer's in it and he just looks like Paul Schaefer My dad just couldn't get over Paul Schaefer being in the movie It's so good He's just like it's like Hermes But it's Paul Schaefer and he's just agreeing with everything
[00:30:40] It's so good It's the type of cameo that I don't think will ever have The impact again just because of how Over-exposed celebrity is You know like you're in my home every day But then I go to the Like you're a TV star now you're in a movie
[00:30:54] But it also feels like The weird meshing of like all the sort of Pop culture Sort of reuse we are talking about Where it's just like It's not like they're putting Kim Kardashian In a Disney movie Like it's a weird pick
[00:31:12] It doesn't feel like they're putting Paul Schaefer In there because he's a big name cameo It feels like they're putting him in there Because they're like What's a funny person to play the yes man You know And then they're like oh Paul Schaefer is a yes man
[00:31:26] What if we just make the character Paul Schaefer He just talks like Paul Schaefer It's so bizarre But yeah I mean it's just like This movie is So much my Sensibility In so many ways It got kind of mixed response from critics
[00:31:44] Not like it did okay at the box office Disney fatigue People were just getting a little Tired of every year You know the big That's what it was I think that's a huge part of it I think the marketing for this movie was fucking relentless
[00:32:00] They also pinned a lot of A lot of toys A lot of toys, a lot of everything Like every Disney store was changing to a Hercules store Do you remember all this New York shit They did some fucking Central Park Thing and they took over all of Chelsea
[00:32:16] Peers and made it a Coliseum And then they had a Hercules Parade And when the Movie opened it was only playing At the New Amsterdam Theatre for the first week They did like the limited run thing That's where I saw it was
[00:32:30] Disney had just bought the New Amsterdam Lion King hadn't opened yet So they had Hercules play there as a movie For two weeks And it was just like particularly in New York It was relentless And I think Katzenberg was more and more trying To push Disney away
[00:32:46] From girl princess stuff because they wanted To get the boys on board And they sort of in the process might have Alienated some of their Like died in the wool audience But I think the reason why It's reputation is so much better now Larry
[00:33:00] Is I feel like this is kind of The favorite Disney movie Of a lot of people who work In the media from our generation now You know? I think Because of its weird sense of humor I think so there is this phrase
[00:33:14] It comes from a musical yes it's called It says I'd rather be Nine people's favorite thing Than a hundred people's ninth favorite Thing. It's definitely that energy Right. And it's like unapologetically Like yeah about like A Disney movie about a male Like superhero in a way
[00:33:32] That I guess Aladdin kind of was But I don't know Hercules I don't know it just has a different edge It's a little bit edgier Yeah it's about getting famous It's about weird things for a Disney movie It's specificity is what makes it charming
[00:33:46] And I think that like I think that If Meg were the center of the movie She would not be allowed to be as complex She would have to be flattened To the like Disney standard And so Yeah I like You know Musker and Clements To Okay bars
[00:34:08] Yes bars I feel like the like confidence And like sort of like later career Nature of like some of these like Really bold choices for Disney Like for me makes it Yeah you're right makes it a stand out for me It represents like Some sort of like
[00:34:30] Departure maybe it's the Thing but like it does feel like It feels separate Than Aladdin and Yes Mermaid It's also like you know like Jafar and Aladdin And Jasmine are Pretty straight characters You know it's like Aladdin has that division Of like here are the comic relief characters
[00:34:52] Here are the heroic and villainous Characters you know and this is a Movie in which every character is comedic The whole thing is just top to bottom Comedy energy You also have a very different visual Style like it feels like they're really
[00:35:06] I mean they're obviously trying to like Incorporate you know Greek art and all of that but it just has Very different sort of shapes In it and a different kind Of score and like different Action sequences like the hydro Sequence is very different than any action
[00:35:22] Sequence in like Aladdin Partially just because of technological advancements And budget I love it I think You love it anything in rules Yeah it's so it's sort of Video gamey I like that it's sort of video gamey I just think it's cool it's like
[00:35:40] It's got such a different Vibe and it's also They just like were able to At this point pull off like camera Moves and shit which They could barely do in Aladdin Everything is so kind of locked down because Stiffy, stiffy this doesn't feel stiffy
[00:35:56] It just feels new modern It feels closer to 2000 Than it does to 1990 This is true it's just like All of it feels a lot closer to Just like we're going somewhere different Like even the pace like probably Nickelodeon is just like such a machine
[00:36:12] Now in like Disney channels Like they're starting to which is like Disney Channel television Is just Borschbell Vaudeville like these kids Like they sell a punchline A three stack build Like they sell it to the balcony On television and they like Do a hundred scripts like
[00:36:32] It is truly like little rascals type Training For an actor and tonally Like if you talk to a kid Like between the ages of like 8 and 11 their personality Is actually wise cracking Sidekick like they very much Have like why I ought to like
[00:36:50] They like a kid will say that And you're like who taught you that It's like it's fucking Miley Cyrus Like It's also like I mean you You look at so it's Aladdin Right and then am I forgetting One no yeah it's the three Disney movies the three
[00:37:08] Other Disney animated films That happen between Aladdin And Hercules between the two musker Clements are Lion King Not in order are Lion King Pocahontas and a Notre Dame that's in order Well so you know what I got it Right by accident but All three of those movies are
[00:37:28] Definitely trending More serious right There was this thread of Katzenberg like the two things you hear About Jeffrey Katzenberg running Disney animation at this point in time Was he always said like I want more Edge I want more reverent I want more pop culture references
[00:37:46] And he wanted to win best picture Like Katzenberg got so hard When they got Beauty and the Beast nominated for best Picture and that was the first animated movie That he kept on going like Pocahontas Hunchback Lion King their tragedies They're like big tragedies Pocahontas especially
[00:38:04] I think he for whatever reason Thought that was gonna have The right mix of like prestige And class And star power with like Romance and shit History Right it's gonna like Beauty and the Beast But leveled up we got more money We've got more time to do it
[00:38:24] And then Pocahontas is I think you know It's a little snoozy You know there's things that are fun about it You know I kind of like how it looks I don't know how you guys feel about Pocahontas I don't want to come too hard
[00:38:38] It's never been a favorite I like Pocahontas a lot It's an imbalanced imperfect movie Is there a short score on that? It is Well no it's Menken Wait it's Menken and Schwartz Menken and Schwartz working together On Pocahontas I mean well the story Is gonna be tragic
[00:39:00] Cause that's just what she wrote Yeah And so yeah In terms of like I actually don't have a huge appetite For this I'm like trying to not offend my future bosses I'm like I watch animated movies Or maybe I'm just not like a Disney gay
[00:39:20] Or a princess girl I like my musicals live I like my musicals sanguine Flesh and blood White woman out front That's another thing for me That I find interesting about Hercules Which rewatching it now Correcting my past Greasy talk about it I do think is my favorite of
[00:39:42] The Musker Clements and my favorite of This Disney Renaissance era It's just so my Sensibility but I feel like A it's the one that has Live musical theater energy Something about the relentlessness Of it and the kinetic energy Of this movie and how fast
[00:40:02] It moves really feels more Like a staged musical Than an animated musical film And I also think that Like The Those films right they picked More tragic source material Right but they also I think were going for that sort of prestige They wanted seriousness
[00:40:24] In the eyes of Hollywood at large And this movie is like owning Being a cartoon Not owning being a Disney movie Is owning being like a fucking Bugs Bunny cartoon to a certain degree It has bugs money energy I don't know where this is
[00:40:40] Related to this is to Space Jam But I don't know something about it Feels hand in hand A year apart No not same year right Space Jam's 96 you're right You're apart I think and The whole section of him Of Hercules being merchandise That's obviously Michael Jordan satire
[00:41:00] Right like all the big Gulp and all that stuff Air her Exactly But I I mean I can't agree with you Griffin We have to talk about David Zippel Then we have to you know this is The guy coming in To replace Asherman as the lyricist here With
[00:41:22] Working with Menken what do we have Strong opinions on David Zippel Larry do you care about David Zippel I have a personal connection David Zippel is a friend Very sweet charming person This is perfect let's talk about it then I don't know him well Fantastic lyricist
[00:41:42] David's credits goodbye girl on Broadway Brought up Peters vehicle Which is that's with Hamlish Right that's Marvin Hamlish Yes Marvin Hamlish and then city of Angels I believe he's a lyricist of that So these just like really really like Stallworth like show business
[00:42:00] Like like shows and so I feel like Sort of like that show business edge Comes into play here And I find that like The lyrics like they're so Like I feel like it is definitely Completely hand in hand with like Understanding the assignment of like
[00:42:16] Howard Ashman did this really well Like things are conversational They're breezy it's contemporary vernacular But with always the reach to pull from Anything in history and assume that Our audience knows what this is So it's an intelligent but innocent Listener and so I feel like
[00:42:34] That carries through in terms of like The voice of the show and he has a lot Of fun with like and this perfect Package packed a pair of pretty pecs Like he's having fun he's showing his Pen it feels like Cabaret right like it's It's clever it's like
[00:42:50] Yeah it's like meant to be listened To and understood in a way that like A musical theater lyric is distinct In that way like a pop lyric The chorus has to be pronounced but Like you really don't know what Ariana Grande Is singing and like you prefer it
[00:43:04] Because she's literally like oh no That's Selena Gomez you got me Walking side to side to me one of the Like a more lewd song Than WAP because She's literally like I got rocked And now I can't walk correctly This is Selena Gomez Disney star
[00:43:20] You got me walking side to side And so you don't know That's what the song is about because You can't hear the lyrics But David Zippel's lyrics are Now I have to shout out My Beltruses, The Vocalists The Ladies, Multiple Tony Award winners
[00:43:36] In this group of singers playing the muses We have his Kaliope Lilius White We have his Turbus Gr.. I don't even know I can't really do it It's Lilius White, Roz Ryan Cheryl Freeman, LaShonze And I think there's one other female vocalist Vanessa Tom
[00:43:52] Vanessa Tom is who like I Like I don't know where her stage career is But the four women that I mentioned Just like So indelible to The like growth and life of Broadway The roles that they played between them In just Just as a group
[00:44:10] Like as like a girl group The energy that they infuse Into the score And the like Amount of storytelling that they truly Cover As these direct to camera narrators And also just like the style that they bring Like they dance, like they're gorgeous Like they represent this like
[00:44:30] Very, very fierce modern sensibility of the show And this tearing down of like The literal fourth wall And also the energetic fourth wall of like We're having fun like like this isn't This isn't Beauty and the Beast We actually like actually
[00:44:44] One of the Easter eggs visual Easter eggs I think like A scar or A scarf is in the clouds No, no scar is when Hercules Is posing for his painting He's wearing scar as a pelt As a pelt A skinned scar Yeah, I mean
[00:45:04] You can hear the pen is a great phrase Larry which I'm going to use all the time And a good way Sometimes it's a bad thing But here in a really positive way What were you going to say David sorry I agree with you Larry that yes
[00:45:18] The Muses they're setting the temperature of the movie Which is what you need like right like Here we're having this is going to be Silly it's going to be referential It's not going to be disposable Like this is fun But like you know and I love the look
[00:45:32] Of them but I wanted to ask you if you knew Who the first choice to play the Muses Was Very 1997 Choice TLC The Spice Girls Oh my gosh Which is why there are five Muses Why they're a five person act And I Have no idea
[00:45:56] They declined whatever they know It's the height of the Spice Girl Yeah it's a busy moment Honestly it's a lot of development Like the involvement There's like some really great Making of and you just I just love to listen to Lillius White Who sings like the lead music
[00:46:14] I just love to listen to her stories of Making it and how they like you know Consulted them about their design And like Lillius is She's like Zoftig and Curvy But she you know requested to be a slender Muses like her her muse does not resemble
[00:46:28] Her Ros Ryan who is Like the shorter more curvaceous Muse like that is very Ros Ryan energy And And just yeah I love it when they dance Like the movement for the muses If recreated on the human body Would be impossible and it's just so fun
[00:46:46] It's the same with how Meg is Animated I was gonna say Meg silhouette it makes zero Sense I mean it's just like I love the weird angularness Of the designs for these characters Because I feel like they're on a base That's what I love about it Vaz
[00:47:04] To Hercules joke But that's like that's the thing Zero to Hero has so many fucking Funny jokes within the lyrics Jokes jokes jokes jokes jokes Jokes jokes right I mean he could tell you What's a Grecian earned is like Okay so I think Jerry's out on this
[00:47:20] Lyric so you believe it to be what He could tell You what's a Grecian And then sometimes I hear He could tell you what the Grecians Earned. So I think The joke is that it sounds like both That it sounds like He's telling you what a Grecian
[00:47:38] Earns and what is a Yes brilliant lyric What's a Grecian earned right yes He could tell you what's a Grecian Earn which is hilarious because you're like One Grecian like even just like a passing Like music man High school you know you've been in the production
[00:47:54] Of music man you're like one Grecian Earn and then so it's already Pricking the musical lovers ear And then it's funny and then it's a double Entourage What the Grecians earned Which is hilarious And the literal pitches that she's singing on It's just like so perfectly placed
[00:48:12] In the power part of her voice Wait now I'm David Zippo Hey, hey Zero to Hero is one of the songs I like sing while Puttering around my apartment the most And has always been and I think it's Just because the lyrics
[00:48:28] Are so jokey that they're wedged in My brain forever. It's a top to bottom Stopper like the first time you hear it You're just hit with like the velocity Of like seeing an amazing musical theater Number which like there is no other Feeling like
[00:48:42] That like when you see for the first Time you're just like I would hear that again Immediately and you can't because Two more hours of show there's no CD Whatever and you just have to live with a song Until you hear it again and then
[00:48:54] For people who love this movie to Officially learn the lyrics to like Break it down like for a kid Or like a young person discovering What these lyrics mean like often times You have to ask your parents like What is you know like
[00:49:08] Like what is all about Eve because it's like a reference In like a movie and they're like Well it's this this this and so you really learn About life through these lyrics That and these references that happen in passing Aladdin has that too right yeah
[00:49:20] Which Ashwin right all that all That little referential stuff to where you're like As a kid you're like well I get it something I get that this is something I want to know about Yeah like then and like how like comedy
[00:49:30] Like how you just hear the inflection of comedy Even if the joke's not for you Like you just still know that something's funny And then the invent like And then truly learning about Things that you wouldn't learn about in school But just like popular culture
[00:49:44] Roll things from these movies That like pass on this sensibility Like something I think about a lot Tangent as a creator you know Who's very intimidated by like Tick-tock burns through material intentionally Like am I a font of creativity Or do I have like a fix you know
[00:50:00] And it's like no People like kids will always Respond to live comedy because They're being taught it in these little moments Yeah like there's like a jazz A jazz cue in a Disney movie Make someone like hear La Vie en Rosa in real life
[00:50:16] And have an attachment to that Like La Vie en Rosa the song Is never going to die because it's used in These properties like It's still been passed on Yeah and like Bugs Bunny teaches you vaudeville and shit I mean it's like all this stuff
[00:50:32] There's like comedy weirdly I mean the weird self-referential Element of comedy ends up functioning As like a history of itself You know Like all comedy is influenced By I should say all the influences That go into any work of comedy End up becoming Weird Sort of indoctrination
[00:50:56] Tools into those different voices And sensibilities I mean it's just our shared History of like what we acknowledge To be either true in life So it's funny or to be presented In a way that's like not quite like life Which is like fun to watch
[00:51:10] And it's just like how we cope Like it is, I don't think it's ever going to go away Because humor is Like one of the most universal things Like not everyone has been in love Like everyone has laughed, period You know like not everyone has parents
[00:51:24] But like everyone has laughed, period And so Yeah I just love I don't know I feel like the comedy In the In the lyric writing Zero to Hero Is just such an amazing song Those references and the alliteration And how specific they are
[00:51:42] To the singers as black women Like using like Their natural vernacular patterns And then like to thinking of them as truly muses Who Hold the history and also like the future Truly of Hercules And they're like genuine excitement for the character And sort of the double entendre Of
[00:52:02] Like by telling a story of gods They use godly music A.k.a gospel Normally I hate when White composers lean on Black musical idioms Make this idea apparently Like I because like because normally it's a very Canned and artificial version Of The spirit but I because
[00:52:26] I think it's like so Dramaturgically important As a way in of telling an epic Story Storytelling music right like Telling a community story like a telling a good News of gospel a literal gospel In terms of that framework It allows the music to blossom
[00:52:44] And then to keep like Subverting and playing with Like the contract of five female singers Or like I won't say I'm in love Just becomes you know like probably the most Ron that's Phil Spector of the references For me. I think that's That's my That's just a
[00:53:02] Banana's good song. I love that song I love how it's portrayed As well but it's just That's why I want to see this On Broadway someday Like I want to see that I mean I would like to see all of it obviously
[00:53:16] But like I would love to see that Done to a crowd Yeah just like an honest moment When you're excited for an adaptation So that you can see Someone just like deliver a killer song In front of an audience which is all that Theater is versus like
[00:53:32] I want to see how they do the What do they call The Hydra It's gonna be some fabric That's the lights honey Yeah who gives a shit You want to see fucking Krista Rodriguez sing that Shit with emotion With the girlies singing and you want to hear her
[00:53:50] Check the grand your real love It's like not clean See they're gonna be clean vocals At the same time and I also wanted to say Before I forget my wife uses the Muses in this to teach her kids She's teacher about the chorus Really? Yes That's cool
[00:54:08] If you're getting a bunch of 13 year olds to read the odyssey Or whatever like I feel like the chorus Is something that is hard to Summarize or whatever Anyway I just want to Cause you guys are talking so lovingly about this
[00:54:22] Griff you're saying you're singing zero to hero You like this movie less No I don't know I like the movie a lot Every time I watch I've seen this movie Like three times in my life And I don't know why it was never
[00:54:34] In my rotation except maybe I was Like a year or two too old for it You know like I was 11 when it came out You're kinda starting to You know write like Not just watch disney movies anymore Right you know what I mean
[00:54:48] And like maybe that's the difference Like I feel like hunchback was the last disney Movie that I remember being like pumped To see in the theater And I remember seeing hercules and Like being like oh that was fun And like never thinking about it again
[00:55:02] And because it was light And you were like hold on I'm not attached Like literally to the trauma It was too light for you You're like I I just want to say I was like someone who was A 12 so I think I aged out
[00:55:18] But I also was just like this is like homework Yeah You saw the ancient Setting and you were like no Nah that's the stuff I try To not do at school I've heard of hercules He's some old guy Yeah it's like It's a book or something Is this
[00:55:40] The exact Is this the exact same year That hercules the legendary journey The Kevin Sorbo show Yes my background Right now on Zoom Your background I believe is just of Kevin Sorbo the man It's just Sorbo being intense That show began in 1995 So it's already been running
[00:56:02] For a couple years Yeah so I feel like that stole Some of their thunder I do think there was A little bit of disney fatigue as you said I think it's weird because It's like this movie in a way Feels like such An Attempt to
[00:56:22] Make a hairpin turn Away from the increasing Sort of self serious stodginess That the increasingly Dramatic Oscar Thirsty films had had But I think so many people were just Off the train at this point that you couldn't get them back on And then it's like
[00:56:40] I feel like there's this movie And then Emperor's New Groove is three years later And Emperor's New Groove is like This but without songs and just Fucking comedy and similarly Kind of underperformed in theaters Kind of got a shrug from critics And now has like a really
[00:56:56] Positive reputation Right but I think people were like This isn't a disney movie Like this isn't what a disney movie is supposed to feel like Emperor's New Groove Totally to me I don't know To be totally very I don't know It's giving me Lorne vibes Lorne Michael's vibes
[00:57:16] It's got Lorne vibes, I mean David Spade is involved It's got some Lorne vibes Is that why I was like It's going in a straight Direction It's got David Spade Okay, Babe Energy Why am I saying okay babe that's Dennis Miller The other thing about Emperor's New Groove
[00:57:34] Is that it was going to be a self serious Epic and disney Turned it into a comedy which is a weird You know like a weird microcosm Of that than being like oh god Should we have to stop being prestige Like should we have to do something different
[00:57:48] That was also a Hail Mary pass To escape the film being cancelled entirely Like the self serious version Of the movie was such a disaster That they were like give us a weekend to rewrite it And just turned it into a parody of itself
[00:58:00] And like cut down the budget And then the film got made That film is like 75 minutes It's so short Yeah and it was made in like a year I mean everything about it is just like trying to I think You have Hercules Then you have like
[00:58:18] You have Mulan and Tarzan Which zag back in the other direction And are bigger hits Tarzan is like Hercules but not funny It's also a superhero story About a himbo but I don't remember Being funny like it just forgot to be funny I think it kind of sucks
[00:58:34] And the Phil Collins music blows But it was a huge hit And then after that it's like Emperor's New Groove they're just doing Fucking comedy it's not even a musical And then they do the back to back Atlantis Treasure Planet And I was wondering when Atlantis came
[00:58:50] Into all of this because totally You gotta go to Atlantis They do two back to back Like sci-fi boy Hell yeah Adventure films with no songs And both of them bomb so hard And Treasure Planet is the one where they're like We're canceling all future plans
[00:59:08] No more hand drawn movies But also worth noting of course That like Katzenberg is over Dreamworks at this point spooling up Like Prince of Egypt like he's like Well I'm still gonna make These like big self serious musical Epics over here He does
[00:59:26] Rotel Dorado right like he's trying To sort of keep the Disney Thing alive and failing I guess Sinbad And then it's like Shrek is like Sort of the like accident off to the side That ends up fucking everything up But this movie I mean Katzenberg must
[00:59:42] Have started on this and then gone Over to Dreamworks during the development Of this right? Yeah because you know this thing They started whatever working on it in 93 Yeah And that Muscle and Clements come in And they're like it should be a screwball Comedy like
[01:00:00] Bring that energy into the screen Writing that's they wanted They want to do a bunch of Michael Jordan style right like they want A parody like celebrity culture Like we mentioned they Read every ornery old guy in the world For Phil and eventually Hire Danny over pasta
[01:00:18] Susan Egan Who plays Meg had to basically Beg for this role because they were like No you're Belle you can't be Meg you're you know Sweet innocent Belle you can't be Flinty clever Meg you know And so she like She had read for every single female
[01:00:36] Lead in the Disney Renaissance And she didn't get it would come close and wouldn't get it And was begging them was playing Belle on Broadway at the time And was like let me come in You all close your eyes Let me record the dialogue I'll sound like
[01:00:50] Barbara Stanwyck animate it and then get back To me and tell me if it works And they did that and then like six months later They were like we looked at the animation test It's good you got the job She's great she said
[01:01:02] Tate Donovan falls into this weird category Of I feel like Tony Goldwyn playing Tarzan Like there's this era where it's just like Tom Hulse playing a hunchback Of Notre Dame like you get someone Who's like a known actor But isn't really a movie star
[01:01:18] Is kind of a leading man who never Became a leading man right not really Like a himbo and he is a real life Himbo I remember when he was on friends He had like curly hair and he was dating Jennifer Anderson in real life and it was
[01:01:30] Like oh is this like a guy we're gonna have to I love Tate Donovan I enjoy I just like I enjoy dad Tate Donovan Right like I enjoy the OC OC Tate Donovan is where we Get peak Tate yeah Tate really grows into it
[01:01:46] He's a little lost in the 90s I like Kenny Lonergan Tate Donovan on stage But as a kid who was So movie obsessed and when I would see A movie I loved as much as Hercules And then asked my parents 5000 questions
[01:01:58] Because I wanted to know everything about it I'd be like who is Tate Donovan Like he's the star of Love Potion Number 9 he sure is Like so often with these movies If I liked a film and then I'd be like
[01:02:10] Danny DeVito is funny I gotta watch Danny DeVito Movies you know I'd be like this is my New favorite actor this voice You really do you find You find some people you like this swing You do but Tate Donovan they were like
[01:02:22] There's no real path for you to go down As a Tate Donovan fan As an 8 year old Tate Donovan fan There's not really a syllabus I can hand you Stick around you know in 15 years This guy's gonna be giving great You know supporting role like
[01:02:38] He's gonna play managers and club Owners it's gonna be a lot of fun He'll be on damages for a long time He'll be like the other guy on damages Remember when he just kinda clung on For dear life on damages
[01:02:50] Is no one want to talk to me about damages That's you that's some you territory Damages Glenn Close is my new best friend I was in Montana She lived famously lives there And yes we did Hang out Did you really? Absolutely Larry! There are 12 people in Montana
[01:03:08] Like yeah we like Truly ran into her in the corner Wow David is holding a is this a cardboard Sandy or is it a screener It's a screener I mean if I had a Carb board Sandy of Heliobiliology This fast that would be impressive
[01:03:24] I just want to make this very clear The background on with the photo of like The Titans on the I love how they're animated They're fun but because of the way that Zoom virtual backgrounds work where they're Trying to identify what the background
[01:03:38] Is and what your face is The DVD screener Of Heliobiliology David is holding up It's cutting out the back It looks like it's just Glenn you're right Right so it just looked like David Was holding up a cardboard Sandy Of Glenn Close and Amy Adams in Heliobiliology
[01:03:54] That's what he had on his desk Mama did you talk about Heliobiliology When you hung with Glenn? No we were castmates in a Virtual benefit of Angels in America Love it This summer yes She played Roy Cohn I played Belize And so we chuckled About being castmates virtually
[01:04:16] And Yeah and then we helped to move A chair Right the side tangent here You're an excellent On-camera actor as well but you are Like such a live performer You're one of those people who it is So infectious to watch your energy on stage
[01:04:34] And how much you clearly feed Off the energy of an audience and work With it and everything and you've done Like a bunch of these fundraiser things I mean you had like a small part in the Ratatouille Tick Tock musical And you did the Angels in America thing
[01:04:48] You've been doing a lot of these like live Streamed Web Peace meal kind of let's try to do the Equivalent of a show sort of thing Like how are you dealing with The Absence of live performance Right now like the absence of that Energy I mean it's like
[01:05:10] I'm just really biding my time And there's nothing To replace it there's like nothing To do it really is I have to submit to Yeah It's the most vulnerable I've ever been in my life Because I don't get to air out my dirty laundry That's why I ask
[01:05:28] Either subtext or literal text Right that's why I ask because it's just like If you've had the honor of seeing You perform your thought is like Oh this guy lives on the stage Like this is just I rarely have seen Someone this at home
[01:05:42] Getting this much power from this And giving this much power It would just be a lot It would be a lot of moments together With people like together with those audience Together with like fellow Artists like in that is like It's just a true true true lack And
[01:06:00] I always say that like one of the deadliest Things you can do in corona is sing in a group Because of the droplets Like you can't gather an audience Like and so like it just has made me Really like a true Movie reference Avenger in terms of
[01:06:16] Just like really wanting to have Like a very very like pro quarantine lifestyle Like trying to do as much as I can To encourage everyone to look out For the collective good so we can get Back to that sooner And then When we go back I am
[01:06:32] So excited there's a Vaccine now and I'm just going to Absolutely just Like pump it like it's going to be So fantastic to like Have a ripple of people like Laughing again and laughing And it's going to be so phenomenal But right now I'm my
[01:06:50] Own grip I'm my own sound person And it fucking sucks Sucks sucks A it's like I'm not I No part of me ever wanted to be my own tech And B all the sort Of half measure Like a sort of Facimally sort of Live performance shit ends up
[01:07:10] Making me miss live performance More than if I wasn't doing anything The amount of work that I've done With my skills so that I like Strategically do not have to do tech And now but again It's very very humbling Humbling time And I and Fortunately I feel
[01:07:30] Like I'm getting better At the thing that we have to do now Like I have a ring light Like the most important element Of all time I have this microphone Like it's I And honestly like for the tiktok Ratatouille like Tiktok acting is different babe like
[01:07:48] Oh yeah don't even don't look at the camera And don't pick an eye line you look at yourself That is weird I didn't think about that but that is crucial to Tiktoks they're looking like over there Did you watch the tiktok ratatouille David I did absolutely so I'm
[01:08:02] I'm not going to drag anyone Or praise anyone I'll be as vague about This as possible but it is very interesting Watching that thing Larry And seeing the different Choices people make With regards to eye line and some Of them work much better than others
[01:08:18] There's just like if you use The platform like to a certain Degree like you just understand Like that certain And it could even be generational I think I think it is to A degree but it was very interesting to watch Like performances super
[01:08:34] Imposed next to each other side by Side and like one person Is looking at cue cards one person Is looking at themselves on camera One person is looking to the side pretending That they're looking at their costar Someone who had to submit a Some total of three lines
[01:08:50] To that operation Like what they did Like was fun like Unbelievable like truly like It like I like the organization I mean just some behind some TTS and like I worked so hard on my three lines If I had anything else I would have been
[01:09:08] You know showing some it's like On chop like don't make too many dishes okay It's also I mean I want to make it clear I'm not throwing shade At anybody it was impressive what they put together What's interesting about it is watching The learning curve of these
[01:09:22] Things in real time you know Where it's just like people having to figure Out what the language is of how do you Do a filmed musical Where no one is in the same room And it's just trial and error Yeah David I think
[01:09:38] All your reasons why you didn't Connect with Hercules make I think that was just too old for it I had seen Independence Day You know what I mean like I was just like Oh like I've only been seen kids movies And when you're like eleven or you know
[01:09:52] Suddenly you're like whoa there's a whole other world of movies And I probably and I didn't own it on VHS And I Whatever it just was never but anytime I Watch it I've always had a fondness For it I think it's very clever I really like the animation
[01:10:06] So I love James Woods unfortunately I talked about this many times We unfortunately have to talk about this How he's one of my Favorite actors and he's like the worst person In the world and I don't want to say much more
[01:10:18] Because I don't want him to sue me But he's very funny In this and It's similar to like a Robin Williams thing Where it's clearly a very Adelaide performance and the animation feels like It's trying to keep up with him And there's like just
[01:10:34] A dynamism to that that's really cool And it's also Trafficking so much in his persona As a movie star that's the other thing With Robin Williams analogy is that It's like it's not just oh James Woods Happens to be the voice of Hades It's that this movies characterization
[01:10:50] Of Hades is he's a James Woods character Yeah It's weird to think that that was once a thing though That where it was like yeah James Woods he'll give you a great character You know what I mean Like sure he could be a star for you
[01:11:04] But also he could be a great sixth lead Like that was his whole 90s vibe Like he could play a slime ball He could play kind of a comic role Yeah It's weird I keep talking about it Of course How incredible is he in the virgin suicides
[01:11:22] He's in like just a devastating performance Like what the fuck happened to this guy Yeah he was an incredibly good actor And is an incredibly bad person Yeah It's just fascinating but it's like I don't know if I mean He's been shitty for so long
[01:11:38] That whenever I last rewatched this movie I'm sure my opinion of James Woods Had already been totally tainted But now it's so beyond the pale And watching it I was like This character is so good The just the animation Acting on Hades is so impressive
[01:11:54] Like his weird fingers The design is cute The design is so fun It's so like magical But he looks menacing He looks terribly evil But also slick Yeah I mean there's just the The character animation in this movie is so fluid While the designs
[01:12:14] Are so detailed and complex I really think this Is kind of Maybe the most impressive Of this era just as a technical Achievement But like I was telling you We were talking off Mike David about how I had rewatched A Bugs Life recently
[01:12:34] Movie I had not seen in a couple years Another movie with a cancelled villain Right and I was a little bit worried about Watching A Bugs Life again because of the Kevin Spacey Thing and I was like am I just not going to be able
[01:12:44] To get over it and the thing is He's very good in that movie Playing a fucking horrific Monstrous creature Who is very similar to Kevin Spacey In real life and The character is not a Kevin Spacey Archetype in the same way It's just Kevin Spacey providing the voice
[01:13:02] Of someone who's awful so you're able To sort of transfer your contempt of the guy Over to your contempt of this villain But then Hercules gets into this zone Of like he almost looks like James Woods You know Yeah, no it's true he does I mean sort of
[01:13:18] He also has blue flame hair but it's true He does But the animation is so Like the way he lights up when he's angry Yeah Is so clever as well Do you know the story about the casting on this? I think that
[01:13:36] I knew that it was Liff go right That was the initial Oh no okay I know Right so DeVito was first priority We got to get DeVito right And we talked about that old rig of a roll And we enjoy Phil and he makes sense
[01:13:50] Right RipTorn feels like That had to just be a very short walk to get To that casting at this point he's in the pocket He's on Larry Sanders that's good Hercules takes on it and feels like it was Their lowest priority just gets someone
[01:14:02] To do that at the end of the day And then we already talked about all the hoops That Meg had to jump through But also you know some of the little Love Bobcat gold tweed obviously Yeah Bobcat Oh my gosh This is almost like an early
[01:14:22] Bobcat reclamation project Cause he's kind of like a little bit Washed up at this point He's a little wildernessy You're right you're right Bobcat this is good for me to isolate I watched It is a whoopee Goldberg movie A burglar Burglar and Bobcat go away
[01:14:42] This in that movie and Wow Behavior That's the thing though but he had one of those Arcs were in the 80s everyone was like Can't get enough of this fucking guy This Bobcat and she's out of control And then around 93 everyone was like
[01:14:58] Fuck Bobcat throw him in a furnace We never want to hear that guy again So this movie is coming like four or five years After Bobcat sort of Come Pauly shore at people's eyes Yeah Bobcat grateful for this Yeah grateful for this role As you sing Larry
[01:15:14] But as you are trying to Set up Griffin DeVito is the one who suggests The casting of Hades that I believe You're about to talk about Yes cause they couldn't solve what's the energy For Hades Hades should be the dynamic Genie style character what's the energy
[01:15:30] And DeVito said you should get Nicholson what would be funny The Lord of the Underworld is Nicholson And you have it be the Nicholson persona So he is such good friends with Nicholson He throws it over to Nicholson And Nicholson's like I'd love to do that
[01:15:44] Sounds great, Nicholson comes to the table And he goes here's the deal I want 15 million dollars I respect it, I respect it And 50% of all Hades merchandise sold Because that was his Joker deal Sounds like a good start to bargaining To me if I'm Nicholson
[01:16:00] They wanted him so badly For Batman that he negotiated That deal where it was like 5 million But he got 50% of any merchandise That had the Joker's face on it And he made the most money That any actor made for a movie And that record stood for like 20 years
[01:16:16] So he just saw dollar signs here And was like okay That's the deal you're giving me 10 to 15 million dollars 50% of all Hades Dolls and they were like cool cool cool Here's our counter $500,000 Which you know Jesus I mean like they're like look Here's $500,000, I mean Disney or Cheapskates
[01:16:34] Okay I'm not saying that that's a good offer But they're like it's a week of work What the fuck just come do it And also Robin Williams had gotten $75,000 to claim the G&A Rude, rude, rude But it's like 15 is so
[01:16:48] Outside of the range of what they even Consider doing at this point Then you get like I mean you know Fuckin four years later five years later whatever Mike Myers gets 20 million dollars For Shrek 2 like then it starts to become The era of if it's a sequel
[01:17:02] To an animated movie and you cast A big famous person for the first one They get fucking 20 million the second time But at this point in time no one's going to Get 15 million dollars for doing The villain role in an animated film
[01:17:14] Right but so then they hire Lithgow They spend nine months trying to get Him to work for the role I don't really know what that means exactly But they finally fire him And they bring in Ron Silver they bring in Spacey They bring in Phil Hartman
[01:17:30] You know a lot of the era's Wise asses like scary wise Asses Rod Steiger I can't imagine that James Coburn And a bunch of others you Know million people James Woods This is his it's his whole character Like he comes up with the interpretation
[01:17:46] Like he it's his whole idea I mean when you say you don't understand What they meant by Lithgow not working I think it's just they didn't fucking know What the character was Right and Woods came in And just came with this whole thing
[01:18:00] And gifted this movie with his toxic energy And for once found a positive receptacle For it rather than Twitter Yeah I mean have we we've I feel like we've talked about everything What are we missing here I mean we should go through the basic plot
[01:18:16] Of it I feel like not that I mean we've talked about the broad strokes But you have as Larry said I mean this is another reason why This movie's in my wheelhouse And it's just a thing I've liked ever since I was a kid
[01:18:30] But just fucking bathos humor always gets to me Anything where you inflate shit with Pump in circumstance and then deflate it Immediately cut it down And like slap it down with some silly shit I also just like this movie has like full on Looney Tunes like if Hercules
[01:18:44] Shakes someone's hand Then their fingers are crushed and red and pulsating It has so many like Weird sound effects and shit But this movie has so much world Building to do at the beginning Because like Greek mythology Is so much more convoluted
[01:19:02] Than most of the worlds that they've set these films in You have to set up like The rule of the gods Hercules coming down Hades ruling the underworld Half of his immortality getting drained There's a lot of sort of larger Shit to set up
[01:19:20] Which the film does very quickly and does Mostly through the Greek chorus, the goddesses which is So smart The use of them is brilliant Right, the plotting Whatever Yeah they have to sort of get around So he's just the son of gods and he
[01:19:38] He almost drinks the mortality juice But not all of it That's all fine This is not a movie where the plot matters to me Much like the final showdown with Hades is not Maybe as operatic So that's still pretty good when he dies Yeah, thank you
[01:19:56] It's good but I'm more Like this movie for the characterization Of Meg, the weird humor The cleverness of The lyrics, all that stuff But I also think Hercules is a character There were two recent Hercules movies that no one even remembers Existing
[01:20:16] Even though one of them started the biggest Movie star But I think the character Hercules despite a lot of Himbos wanting to play the role Because of how it looks I think it Often gets foiled by how kind of inherently Boring the character is because he's just
[01:20:34] Too perfect Like he's just too kind of Strong in every single sense And I do genuinely Like I'm just a sucker for this Shit but I just, it works for me to Make Hercules this like Awkward gangly Tripping over himself, knocking over A fucking Colosseum
[01:20:54] Like I like that It doesn't know how to handle his power shit And it means that once Phil does train him He does become a fucking hero He's still got that insecure Dude energy which I like You know it's like he still carries with him Yeah, he's hot
[01:21:10] And sweet because he's kind But his body's good And Yeah I feel like Titi's not wanting to train him We love that, just like no Good opening act Arc, good tension To leave off with you No I don't want to do this also just a little
[01:21:28] Shout out to the fates when she holds the eyeball Like those three crones We just love crone work The fates rule Great crone work in this movie I don't know who the crone wrangler was But it must have been one of the best Amazing, they were legitimately scary
[01:21:44] The fucking world building this movie has to do It has to set up that shit with the fates And the future The omen, the strings of life The well of souls, all that shit before Hercules even is born It's all true
[01:21:58] I just think the movie does a pretty good job Of getting through a lot of shit and setting up both The world of Greek mythology I mean the disnified version of Greek mythology That's the thing, yeah It's simple But more importantly setting up Setting up its own internal
[01:22:14] Story stakes which I think it does Well like everyone has very clear Wants and drives Phil wanting to have His kid, you know? I feel like it is boy in energy throughout Which I love as a viewer And I feel like As a departure from
[01:22:32] The gloom and doom prestige I don't know, it just feels like such a I don't know, it feels like a well balanced movie It feels like actually Just like enough like humor and heart Like the balance It feels It feels like they knew that they had to work
[01:22:48] To get that Ashman quota And I feel like they It was good I struggle with heart until Meg shows up And then I'm all in on that front And then you get that little jolt Just when you need to
[01:23:04] So I feel like that is a compliment for the pacing Because these movies They're just long That's honestly my qualm Is that an animated Disney movie is just as long as a real Person movie and I personally can't I can't, I was like no I've already seen it
[01:23:22] I've seen the animation is cute And then the boss It's always when I think that every Disney movie should end Right before the boss Before they get to the boss level you're saying We've seen them do enough Now we have to bring in like a Gorgon Aladdin's 90 minutes
[01:23:40] This movie is 90 minutes A little mermaid is less than 90 minutes Aladdin gets turned into A live action movie somehow It's 2 hours 15 minutes long They did that to Beauty and the Beast They'll do this Griff I assume Wasn't the thing announced
[01:23:58] That it's going to be the Russo brothers doing it With Alexander Sarsgard which sounds like The exact wrong combination Yes It did, I mean it was very vague And they were The Russo brothers were very much like It'll be really different, it won't be a literal
[01:24:14] But that's my thing, I'm just like Are they just going to make some new live action Right, so you're just doing another Hercules movie Like who cares? Who fucking gives a shit But that having been said I don't know how You translate this film to
[01:24:26] A live action movie The energy is so specific to animation And could only parallel to the stage It needs whimsy It needs whimsy The movie would have to Suck out the whimsy To be literal Because these Disney Remakes are They literally are coming out so Hyper-literal
[01:24:50] With the anime Like how they looked at Beauty and the Beast And then Aladdin I was like what? It was like so you Did a live action just so you could do CGI people and CGI green screen sets Like You're animating the humans And you're animating the set
[01:25:10] And such a big part of this movie Is just their faces and their bodies Moving at a speed and in shapes That human bodies cannot Truly Instead, as you're saying The live action they just go grounded They go The Lion King Not be paying $15
[01:25:30] $30 to watch a National Geographic I was like What? This is National Geographic without the Verisimilitude Stop Another one that is somehow Like 45 minutes longer Even though it adds nothing This is somehow word for word remake With 40 minutes added on Word for word remake for me It was
[01:25:54] It was word for word remake With the exception of one scene And sometimes it was in my stand-up act Where I went to go see Lion King alone In IMAX I was the only person in the theater live action And there's a scene where a piece of
[01:26:10] Dung rolls across the savannah For 5 minutes Rafiki Of true to life Mandrill Out of the doodoo and says It is time It is so unbelievable I forgot that scene existed The Dung Beetle scene? Yes, it is truly A bug shit scene It is in IMAX Yes Demented
[01:26:38] Can I say, I think I like A lot about this movie and why I prefer it to Aladdin It is just my taste It is just my preference It is my tempo I'm not saying it's better I know people will be angry
[01:26:54] But a thing I like about this Is I kind of agree with Larry on the perfunctory Of the final boss battle in these movies Where usually the villain takes some new form And the stakes are just like Fucking whatever, the guy's gonna win
[01:27:06] How do they throw him off a cliff Or down a pit or whatever How's the guy gonna get foiled I like that this one I like him defeating Hades And more about the knot Of him needing to prove himself And Meg needing to get the curse lifted
[01:27:22] Like, I'm more invested in The final test of this movie Being Herculean, sacrificing himself Jumping into the well of souls Being ready to die Having that prove his heroism Turning the string gold Like that stuff I like, I think that's good Plotting
[01:27:40] That stuff is all great, I just don't like you bringing Aladdin in Because Jafar turns the palace Into a horny capital mayhem And then Aladdin Slides on a jewel And tricks him into becoming a genie It rules, there's no one to throw it into a pit
[01:27:54] It's the best. The genie's thick, yeah And the genie is so thick Aladdin's just pretty good actually You can get that visual, that like gold visual So good And just how horny everything is Like that's what I love It's like Jafar isn't like I'm evil now
[01:28:10] He's like what's happening now is This is a horny space, that's what's happened To Agrabah, that's what I am Bringing in as Sultan I'm just saying I prefer this, this is just my taste That's fine It's fine It's all good, don't cast Aspersions on Aladdin's ending
[01:28:28] I'm sticking up for it I like that their kneecaps look like triangles Yeah, it's great, we love that It's fun Absolutely, great kneecaps Best kneecaps It won the Academy Award for kneecaps Best supporting kneecaps, yeah I'm trying to think If there are other things we should
[01:28:48] Talk about in this Film We hit all the songs that I like I don't like This movie lacks a Sort of boring ballad Like I like everything here Like you know there's not Like a sort of plotting number But the song is I Can Go The Distance
[01:29:08] Which is the I Want Song And that's a better place to put the boring song And it's early, yeah exactly It's moving the plot so that's okay It's actually a good song It's just I argue a key or two Too low I will find my way
[01:29:24] I can go the distance And then Michael Bolton is actually I will find my way I can go the distance It's so good I can go the distance I will find my way I can go the distance I will find my way I belong That's not rousing
[01:29:46] Not after you've just heard Lillius White and LaShon's In three part harmony I will find where I belong You want that You know what I mean And you just put the orchestra behind that Did you know that Ricky Martin did a Spanish language version of Go The Distance
[01:30:02] That could be amazing Tag him in I was like obviously growing up Overweight I am the hunchback Actually horrified to internalize But then of course they cast the hunchback He's all about being conventionally Attractive and then they have muscle Twinks play him on stage And it's like okay
[01:30:24] So You gotta just Have a little bit of curvature And hit the B flat And y'all choose him Larry you and I were tweeting about this Some months back But our shared frustration At the casting Too many hunks to see more Crell-Born It just is
[01:30:48] So it's because they keep moving the line So first they say you can't play the Romantic leads because you don't look like them And then when the structurally And textually Have those attributes Then they still cast him so what can I play Okay? Because it's a curve ball
[01:31:04] Oh they're doing something different You don't want to see something different from them Literally the industry just cannot go on without seeing Like the most chiseled Like outside of Jonathan Jonathan Grawff is perfection And then they were just starting to bring
[01:31:18] Houten Haller anybody up in there to that And I was like oh Okay, alright Wow Gunning to be See more I want to see you fucking play Seymour It's Terran Edgerton Like this is a Seymour I know that's what I'm saying but when When fucking theaters reopen
[01:31:40] I want you playing Seymour up Broadway You should have a fucking run Oh my gosh, honestly I do love Seymour So much Little Shop was my senior year show In high school and my vindictive director He cast me in the ensemble And I was like
[01:31:56] I'm not going to just be backstage Houten and Haller in the soul My senior year I want to play the lead In my soul I feel much more close to someone who's Being overlooked and pining for love than I do For being a man eating Like blood thirsty
[01:32:16] Like monster He was like you played a monster or your skip snip Which is If you know the musical it's one third It's one fifth of a role that like An actor normally plays So that's my like Little Shop trauma
[01:32:32] I will be good at Seymour, I admit I would be good You'd be good at Seymour, you'd be good at Seymour I want to see it, it's also just fresh That's my favorite musical and now it's just It feels like every time they're like
[01:32:42] Can you believe the transformation This guy somehow hid his pecs long enough To play Seymour Jake Gyllenhaal His glasses on his face I don't know how he did it Gyllenhaal remained with bangs What it says about like inner beauty Is like so weird It's like
[01:33:02] I don't know honestly it feels toxic Like it makes it like weird She should be with someone Who was like energetically like matching her Where like he has this like really Big inner thing but then like The world sees him with less value
[01:33:16] And like she is very coveted And looks but no one is looking at her inside If Seymour looks like Taryn Edgerton then Audrey has already Fucked Seymour Like it ruins the poetry of the connection And I just feel like it's dramaturgically Unsound and honestly it's like It's vile
[01:33:36] I agree Hashtag Larry for Seymour I love it But yeah the music so there are some really amazing Vocal moments The voice is bad right now It's truly tired I can't do it but like it's when Roz Ryan in the Second Muse Breakdown He had a plan to
[01:33:58] Shake things up And that's the gospel The way she opens The trap like these are the vocals Are insane and that's The gospel We get like four big like Jump rope Nine waves of shake To roof It's so good Larry how dare you share that bad voice
[01:34:22] On this podcast We're gonna have to cut that out Everyone is turning it down They're like how Ouch It's just so good and Star is born It's actually one of the best songs You just have to wait till the end Like it's so good
[01:34:40] I just I like the whole thing I just think this movie is a whole lot of fun And a lot of it is probably My contrarian nature That I like that it's the movie that's kind of thumbing It's nose at everything that Disney had
[01:34:52] Only had success doing up until This point But I just think it's a movie where Like I don't know It is free Of self seriousness in a way That gives it some More emotional potency in other Areas because it is not treating Itself as epic
[01:35:12] I think it's the only Disney movie Where Black woman stays in her Human form for the entire time Very true Or maybe even black persons like say like There's like not even I guess they They turn into stone for like They're like a part of the vase
[01:35:30] But they're always in human silhouette form I was gonna say that's more like They're depicted in different art forms But they are always retaining their own body And that was huge for me I think it's why it absolutely stands out to me And I just feel like
[01:35:46] This is for another tangent for Susan Egan Fans there's a show on Disney Plus called Encore And it's hosted by Kristen Bell But don't worry she's not in it a lot And so basically she introduces a group Of high school alums
[01:36:00] Who go back to their literal high school To do their high school play And there's an episode where they do The Beauty and the Beast and Susan Egan Who play Bell on Broadway And also Meg in Hercules voiceover She does like a side coaching
[01:36:14] Of an actress as Bell Singing the song Home And it's amazing It's like you will cry So Susan Egan fans Disney Encore And Disney Plus Encore I will watch that I just think Like Personal preference thing But like Phil getting the That's Phil's Boy moment
[01:36:38] At the end of the movie really kind of gets to me I just think that's such a nice Little quiet understated Little arc they give him Without drawing it out too much I want to share because I found A larger sort of explanation
[01:36:54] Of the marketing blitz I was remembering They did a thing For five months When this movie was coming out In February before it came out in the summer Called Disney's Hercules Mega Mall Tour They went to 20 malls And essentially built a theme park Inside each mall
[01:37:12] They had 11 attractions A multimedia stage show A carousel themed to baby Pegasus A carnival with Hercules booths And an animation workshop where they sent animators Mall to mall to instruct kids how to draw Then they did A Hercules parade in Times Square
[01:37:28] And aired it live on the Disney Channel In the middle of the summer Like it was the Macy's parade With Lauren Hutton, Harvey Kytel Andy Garcia Barbara Walters Michael Bolton, Mary Lou Henner And Olympic athletes Which is a real Pupery of people who exist Ed Koch Who was
[01:37:52] I guess no longer president Publicly criticized the fact He was never the president So no longer Mayor publicly criticized The fact that Giuliani had handed over The city to Disney to that degree It became like a huge thing 100 members of the National Association Broadcast Employees and Technicians
[01:38:10] Used the occasion to strike for a new contract From Disney ABC Complained, I think the mayor gave away The city to Disneyland It was that moment And 5000 businesses and residents Who felt unusually eerie upon being Asked to dim their lights as the Parade passed
[01:38:28] At the end of the parade there was a private party Where they rented out all of Chelsea Piers And had Susan Egan singing songs live On the Hudson River with fireworks This is the moment where everyone's like Fuck Disney Fuck them, too much
[01:38:42] And Giuliani handing the city over to Disney Right, it was seen as this sort of like Oh my god, like New York is dead It was one of those many moments That people pronounce New York Dead I just think all of that Is coming to this film's
[01:38:56] Slightly more muted response Which is it made like 99 million dollars As Larry said, it made like 230 something Worldwide 250 worldwide It did fine But it was a downward slope It was the first one not to crack 100 in a while Lion King was like the third highest
[01:39:14] Grossing film of all time at this point It was a drop off It was and I think it just didn't have As big a tale that they did They did a direct to video prequel Of course They did an animated series, I believe They cancelled the
[01:39:30] Straight to video Hercules 2 Because there's a story Sylveon Chomey Director of Triplets of Belleville talks about That he was one of the main people on Hercules 2 And they cancelled it Because Hercules wasn't popular enough And that was sort of his What am I doing with my life moment
[01:39:48] I should make a movie about French Triplets About old French ladies One of them has a club foot and cycling Vacuum cleaner and the dog on bicycle or whatever Great movie But the prequel movie is this thing that Disney would do If the film wasn't successful enough
[01:40:04] To actually make a direct to video sequel They would take the first three episodes Of the TV show they already planned And release those Right So there's a Hercules prequel movie That is just three episodes of a TV show That aired for a couple years
[01:40:20] We should do the box office game though As we're now talking about The box office game And once again Griffin I'm just checking with you But I'm sure you agree we should do the Wide weekend Not the new Amsterdam theater, Giuliani Blesses Hercules
[01:40:36] Gives him the key to the city weekend This is It's opening number two essentially It's June 27th 1997 Okay So it's going to be a big summer movie In the fall of 1997 But Men in Black is obviously July 4th It's Big Willie weekend Not yet
[01:40:56] Men in Black has not yet come out The Lost World Jurassic Park Has just fallen out of the top five Right because that was like Memorial Day That's what I'm trying to think Those are the two big movies of the summer In my memory 97 Is Lost World
[01:41:12] And Men in Black Is the most exciting movie Being the table in between those two So number one it's new this week It's a movie for grownups It's an action movie It's a great movie It's a lot of fun It's got the kind of irreverent energy Of Hercules
[01:41:32] But much more grownup Is it Con Air It's not Con Air But that is number five And you are in the right ballpark fucking two weeks of each other. That's crazy, really. Yeah, it is. It's very silly. But yes, they're both in the top five.
[01:41:48] But I think Con Air is the Hercules of Brachheimer movies. I, yeah, sure. I mean, I vastly prefer Face Off as a cage experience. But Con Air is, you know, there's a lot to love there.
[01:42:00] I prefer Con Air, but I would argue that a Face Off is kind of the Aladdin, so that tracks. You prefer Con? Well, we'll talk about that one day. That's very interesting. OK, number three Griffin though, we have to talk about it,
[01:42:14] is the one you're forgetting, the flop big movie of 1997. And you know, flop is, you know, it's made $75 million in two weeks. It's doing OK. Batman and Robin, right? Yes, exactly. Chad Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin. So you, I mean, you talk about having seen Independence Day
[01:42:32] the year before this kind of putting you on the other side of Disney movies. My parents were so overprotective that like Lost World and Batman and Robin, those two movies this summer were like the first times I felt like I got to see a quote unquote adult blockbuster.
[01:42:49] And both of those movies are notorious for being kiddy down. So I was still like, I was everyone was fucking playing to me. I was so ready for Hercules because I was like, oh, grown up movies are exactly the same as kids movies.
[01:43:04] Little girls do gymnastics and punch raptors. Batman has ice skates. I never have to grow up. Number four, a great movie. Romantic comedy. One of my favorites. A summer romantic comedy that's one of your favorites. It's not my best friend's wedding, right? It is.
[01:43:23] It is my best friend's wedding. You got it right in one. I always thought that was a fall release for some reason, but something was telling me like a fall movie. But no, it came out in June. Wow.
[01:43:35] Yeah, yeah, came out June 20th, came out a week before. This is a good top five. You got Lost World. You got, all right, Speed Two, another bomb sequel. Number seven, you got Liar Liar, Austin Powers and then of course the biggest movie of them all, Gone Fishin'.
[01:43:51] Of course. Tessie and Glover. JJ Abrams. That's right. Wait, so Austin Power. When does Austin Powers come out? Does it come out in April or May? Austin Powers comes out May 2nd, right at the top of May. So it really is hanging in there. It's hanging in there.
[01:44:07] I think that was part of why it got a sequel, right? Yeah. Had a good VHS run or whatever. But the VHS, yeah, it broke like every VHS record, but it's also impressive that it's still in the top 10 almost two months later. Austin Powers.
[01:44:22] Those were the days, Griffin. You'd watch TV, you'd see commercials for movies, you'd be excited to see the movie. Yeah, I mean, I miss that. I also miss the thing that Austin Powers is so emblematic of, which is something accidentally becoming a franchise. Right.
[01:44:38] Like something that had no designs. It was not planned on a spreadsheet to have different revenue streams and to be able to be a four quadrant thing. It was some bizarre passion project from a guy who had kind of had a flop that then became a major franchise.
[01:44:54] Mike Myers, baby, just like with Shrek. Yeah. See when you make it from the heart and blow up. You make it from the heart. Just like Love Guru. It never fails as long as it comes from the heart like the Love Guru. It never fails.
[01:45:10] And you know, the most famous movie to come from two people's hearts. Which one? Treasure. Oh, Treasure Planet. Larry, that's what's next on Blank Check. Thank you for setting us up. What a perfect setup. Larry, thank you so much for being on the show.
[01:45:27] That was a perfect setup. It was a perfect setup. You're a prince and a king and Duke. A prince and a king. And a lord. I don't know how many different titles can I bestow upon you? The Duke of Hastings. I look forward to your Bridgerton series.
[01:45:40] Is there anything you want to plug? I know you always tell people to listen to Strange Loop on Spotify. Yes, you can listen to. Are you seeing that score on Spotify? And you can follow me at Larry Owens Live, wherever my platforms are not deactivated.
[01:45:58] I understand if it is a thing you can not talk about, but is there any possibility of Strange Loop coming back on stage in some capacity on the other side of this? Absolutely. Everyone take your vaccines and social distance. Great, because that's what I want to see.
[01:46:14] Larry was fucking unbelievable in that show. He won the Drama Desk Award, the show on the Pulitzer's incredible performance. And I hope people get to see it at large. This podcast is only one obis. We don't have any drama. We have zero drama desks. Yeah.
[01:46:29] Also, people should watch Larry's Drama Desk acceptance speech, which he... No, don't watch that. It's really good. No, it's so bad. I honestly think I've archived it. Larry, I think it's so good. You can watch me on High Maintenance on HBO. Great on High Maintenance.
[01:46:45] Let's see, episode five, Dash and Lily Christmas is over. I got cut from search party, so you can't watch me on that. And yeah, I won the Drama Desk, the Lucille Lortel and the Obi. And you hit the triple crown. Yes, hat trick, baby. Incredible performance, incredible show.
[01:47:06] Thank you so much for being here. Larry, I look forward to seeing you live on stage again. It is truly one of the things I keep in my mind as like that's a thing to look forward to in the world.
[01:47:17] Being able to go to a bar, being able to see Larry Owens live, all these things I miss. Staples of New York culture. Oh, my gosh. Folks, thank you so much for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe.
[01:47:31] Thanks to Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our art work and the great American novel, Les Montgomery, for our theme song. Go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit. Go to our Shopify page for some real nerdy merch.
[01:47:48] Tune in next week, as David said, and as Larry so perfectly set up, Treasure Planet. We're going treasure hunting. We're going to space. A first time watch for you and I have not seen it since it was in theaters. Shingo. Very excited to revisit it.
[01:48:04] I mean, I got the same attitude as Larry of I just I want that movie to be an unsung masterpiece. I want to watch it and go, no one gives this movie credit. They were right. Time will catch up. I'm hoping to looking for a gem here.
[01:48:18] Diamond in the rough, if you will. A diamond in the rough. And you can go to our Patreon, of course, Blank Check Special Features to hear us do commentaries on the Star Trek movies, which are my cold watches. Oh, yeah. Go and track David.
[01:48:29] I'll show you offscreen, but I've been buying a last star Trek action figures off of eBay, and I also got a box set of everything. I'm fully in the tank now for Trek. Hell yeah. I'm all in. Folks, thanks again. And as always, Larry, can you please sing
[01:48:47] any line you choose from Hercules? Oh, yeah. Bless my soul. Hercules on the road. Her's another week at every Greek available. What a pro. Hercules stop the show. Point of matter. I'm also at your talking SRO.