Hollow Man with Alex Ross Perry

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check You know what Matt? It's amazing what you can do

[00:00:23] when you don't have to look at yourself in the podcast anymore That's right, yeah, I wondered what line you'd pick, I had no idea Hi everybody, I'm Griffin and I was two hours late to record the clip Oh god it was insane, David Sims, hi

[00:00:38] This is Blank Check with Griffin and David You guys are just listening to an episode of a podcast, you're just like, oh it's Sunday night? Blank Check's in my feed? Yeah, I fucked up badly

[00:00:49] I've been losing my mind and I've been staying up till 6am and then I slept through Ben and I were talking about how you sent us a text, like one of your late texts

[00:00:58] where we get a text from you at 3 in the morning and we're like, who's this poor? Who is he? Biggie's texting right now That's also mean To asleep people Not realizing it's that time, but also 3 o'clock is when I'm just getting started In the words of Ron Shelton

[00:01:14] Oh god, I read this interview Very topical joke by the time The NYC movie guru interviewed Ron Shelton and I read the interview my friend and it is worth reading Ron Shelton doesn't like dirty jokes or fart humor FYI That's a guy, that's weird I know

[00:01:31] Because they're definitely fart jokes and just getting started right? I have no idea We've been seeing it but there has to be at least one Alright, let's not get too sidetracked, sorry Let's get sidetracked I, yeah, I'm losing my mind Just stop losing your mind, okay?

[00:01:47] I gotta stop Make a promise Alright, well look, here's an on the record I've been going crazy staying up late working on this part that I really want to get By the time this episode comes out I probably will have not gotten the part On the record baby

[00:02:00] On the record, someone else will be doing the job by the time But at least you went crazy Yeah, but here's the other thing If I do somehow get the part then this will seem awesome Yeah, fair enough But that's not gonna happen, I'm not gonna get it

[00:02:12] Can I interject with a funny thing here? Please, please Great guest So, you're so full of casualness with what you're projecting with your legs crossed and that cup of coffee Is so at odds with how late you are It's, it's, you should be like How?

[00:02:27] Yeah, you should be like super professional right now Like, side over side But you look, he looks deeply like Sure An absolute ready to go Right He looks marinesque I think your point is that it's not arrogant casualness It's a professional

[00:02:41] What you're saying is I'm the most professional person in the world I mean, the way you hold that mug is very professional Sure It's very Andy Richter like just leaning right in I'm trying to, you know, I feel like I almost sunk the ship

[00:02:52] I'm trying to pull the Titanic out of the ocean We're recording this episode because there's, I would, Alex asked me Like, is this the latest Griffin has ever been? Correct And I was like, I think so for an episode we then record Yes

[00:03:08] But you have just not shown a couple times But I don't think you've ever been like this material There's one time I remember distinctly when my bathroom collapsed There was the bathroom time and then there was the time when you like left your wallet at home

[00:03:20] Or you like lost your wallet or something I lost my wallet Yeah, those were both in the old days Those are the old days And then, and then the Lang, the, uh Oh yeah, that's right I see, I'm good, I took the mic away Thank you

[00:03:35] Yes, me and Rachel Lang hung out for quite a while I think this was the longest This is the, this is the worst I've been Anyway, doesn't matter, me and Alex have all this gossip Well don't spoiler who the guest was Yeah, could be anyone, Alex Uh, Jones

[00:03:49] Yes Today we have Alex Jones on the podcast I was gonna throw something else in there but even off the top of my head I couldn't think of many other Alex I know, I was like how do I not know Trebek

[00:03:59] I mean, Trebek, I usually thought of immediately thought of Alex Trumboli Which from American Vandal Who's not even a real person It makes you realize though, there isn't really an iconic Alex of the generation You have the ability to become the first name Alex Maybe Alex D. Lenz

[00:04:17] Well yeah, I mean, but he's He had a shot Yeah, he had a shot I'd say you and him were neck and neck But you maybe started pulling ahead What's in a name? I feel like you could, you should put Alex D. Lenz in one of your movies

[00:04:29] Ah, he hasn't made a movie since 2007 Perfect, ready for comeback This is your turn to go I just saw a picture of him and he kind of looks like a guy who could be in sort of like a, you know

[00:04:41] Like a domestic drama or like an indie movie or something Right, he looks like a guy That's him, no Normal guy He actually does, he looks like someone He could be like a barista in a movie He would fit perfect in a listen up fill up

[00:04:53] We could get him in there But I'll think of another Alex by the end of the episode Cool You were sort of trying to surreptitiously introduce our guest through his credit Our guest today, a returning guest A favorite, a friend Huge fave

[00:05:07] He is the director of films such as Listen Up Phillip And Queen of Earth And Golden Exits Which will have come out by this When does this come out? This is posting February 26th Oh great, so it'll probably still be at Metro Graf Where it opens

[00:05:23] Where it opened two weeks ago Go see it at Metro Graf And other places in the internet and country and cities Are your movies going to still be on Filmstruck? How long does that last for? At least a year Okay so yeah Go watch like Impalex or whatever

[00:05:36] All my movies are on Filmstruck Yeah And you have a lot of great bonus material A lot of interviews That you're conducting And people are conducting with you It's a treasure trove A lot of stuff and the new movies out So yeah, this is really time to

[00:05:48] This is a good movie And I tried to send Alex after I saw it This metaphor that I had described to my girlfriend about I'll crack I get to describe metaphorster About a magnet sweeping through iron filings And moving them around without picking them up

[00:06:04] And I think Alex was just completely baffled by that email I got it But thank you guys, great to be back Most famously known for the Insomnia episode That's his biggest credit Right, right, right We didn't say his name, Alex Ross Perry Thanks for being here

[00:06:16] This is of course a podcast about filmographies God, what a disaster this episode is Directors who have mastered success earlier on They're careers in a given a series of blink checks Make whatever crazy passion project Because they want sometimes those checks clear And sometimes they bounce baby

[00:06:29] And this is This is it for Hollywood ball Yes, we have put ellipses around this miniseries I'm going to try and talk you into an L-bonus Okay I think we could do an L-bonus And skip black book Yeah, I don't know And skip tricked

[00:06:45] Which is not really a motor Skip tricked, yes But I think there might be some value Emily Ashida was pitching me on an L-bonus And I was kind of like She was not the first too Like a lot of people have A lot of people have

[00:06:57] You guys got to do L Yeah But anyway, but this is the end of Hollywood Paul I'm not against it This is the end of Hollywood Paul And it's weird because it's kind of viewed as a check bounce But Yeah Is Hollywood Paul

[00:07:09] Is that what he was called at the time? No, well we call him that No, but this miniseries is called Paul Verhoeven in Hollywood It's called Podshipcasters Podshipcasters In two hours we had hanging out here I didn't ask What the name of the miniseries was called

[00:07:21] Or where you're at with Verhoeven Now that this is the end Well, you hate spoilers Yeah, but I just, you know So I was caught up to speed Because by the time people hear this They will have heard all the others Correct At this point we have recorded

[00:07:31] Every Verhoeven episode but one I won't reveal which one But none of them have come out yet No, of course not To give you a time and a place We're recording this before The Last Jedi has been released Yes, that's right Before Griffin's even seen it

[00:07:43] Before the Greatest Shulman's been released Before the Greatest Shulman We're in a pre-GS Oh yeah Yeah I missed that screening Because it was on Sunday afternoon And I have like People in my life Who I want to spend my time with Humble Brack It is post-post Post-post-a-seeing post

[00:07:58] Yeah, oh but pre-post- But pre-us releasing post That's true Right We recorded our post episode Have you seen post yet? No, can't wait It's great But by the time this comes out I will So I should have just said Yeah, I've seen it

[00:08:10] I saw it two months ago And on the record What's your review? It's amazing I think you'll love it I think you'll dig it There's almost 0% chance Of me not liking it Yeah Much like There was almost a 0% chance Of me not liking Hollow Man

[00:08:23] When I saw it twice opening weekend Twice opening weekend I'm so glad you're the guest on this So this is the movie where we were Kind of like Who's gonna want this one You know And I did float to you A long while ago

[00:08:34] In like an email thread I was like, do you think Alex would Want to do Hollow Man? It was like a sort of a random guest Because it was two thumbs and one hollow man And then you like emailed The second I think the Justice League

[00:08:44] Ups have dropped So that the Paul News went live And you were like Can I do Hollow Man I will reveal when it comes up The very ulterior motive For why I wanted this There's a specific Hollow Man related reason That I desperately wanted to

[00:08:59] Somehow become part of the public record Please tell me you're remaking Hollow Man Please tell me this is your platform To announce that you're rebooting the Hollow Man I'm taking over Dark Universe I'm directing the Johnny Depp Hollow Man movie There's a specific reason

[00:09:11] That this movie looms large for me That it'll come up organically Yeah, because the crazy thing is We threw a flyer to Yashida Or dear friend Mother of Blankies Well, a flyer is even too strong I essentially shanghide her Where I was like

[00:09:23] Maybe you could do Hollow Man Like where I was just like Trying to think of a guess She's a beloved guest We were like, why not have you on It looked like she probably wasn't going to do Our following mini series after that Exactly, she loves Verhoeven

[00:09:32] But she was like I never even saw Hollow Man So it was not a good fit The reason that I saw this twice Opening weekend This is a big summer for me Is the first summer I had a friend Do had a driver's license So we were free

[00:09:45] 2000, the summer of 2000 Yeah, we were free And we could go do whatever we wanted I don't even know where you grew up I don't know where you're from From Bryn Marn Okay Outside of Philadelphia So if anyone saw Hollow Man Opening weekend at the King or Prussian

[00:09:57] Movie Theater I was probably there You could see it like Because I saw it twice Yeah, you were there Probably one in ten chance Probably Friday and Sunday But I'm not ruling out That it might have been Friday And Saturday So what for you Age 16 or how

[00:10:12] You know, like Was it like I can't wait to see this New Verhoeven movie Was it like I'm a big Kevin Bacon Fan Or was it just like There's an R rated Violent like Har movie Out in August That I can't wait to see

[00:10:26] Or are you an invisible guy Or worried I was an invisible boy Right All of the above I mean This is also a big special effects movie Like if you were a film making This movie was kind of Piped up If you were watching HBO First Looks

[00:10:42] And things in the 20 at the time This was huge for me But all of the above But this was for me Like right at the time Where I was becoming aware Of the whole game Of talking about directors My whole thing would have been like

[00:10:57] Come on guys, this is the director Of Robocop And other movies that we like This isn't just some movie This is part of an movie Was it Robocop Total Recall Or was it also Were you also into show girls And Starship Troopers I was only at that time

[00:11:11] Into Starship Troopers I probably hadn't seen Show Girls yet But I was just like Guys, this is We know Paul Verhoeven This is an important person So that was it And also for the other reason That I'll get to shortly Did you get people to accompany you?

[00:11:24] This is like It's not that exciting When it's revealed You'll roll your eyes probably I can't wait Did you get people to go with you? Yeah, it was different groups I brought my friend With the driver's license Okay, right Both times Maybe

[00:11:37] I just think we liked the effects The effects are very fun to talk about This was like We also had fake IDs To get into R rated movies Because this movie theater Really carded So whenever we could get into one We felt like we'd gotten away with something

[00:11:50] Generally it would then be a double You'd stick around Or maybe buy a PG-13 movie But I saw this movie twice Opening weekend And then not again Until three days ago Wow I did not see this movie In theaters because it was rated 18 Because I lived in Britain

[00:12:06] Ding dong ding dong And in Britain movies are rated 12, 15 or 18 And if you're under 18 You can't get it It's not an R rated thing Where it's about getting No adult can get it And a company guardian It was rated 18 Which only movies that are Either like incredibly sexual

[00:12:22] Explicit or really violent Are rated 18 And this movie's kind of both Yes And sexual violence Will usually get you an 18 Yeah And so I had to wait for video On hollow man But I had the poster in my room Before you'd seen it?

[00:12:38] Yes, because those were the days When I would just get posters You could like go to the movie theater I could go to the Odeon And just be like Do you have any leftover posters? I love that era And they would just give them to me

[00:12:48] What if I still do that? I bet they do I see that sometimes when I'm at a screening At some far away art house theater They don't do it here I don't think you could walk into The AMC 34th street But I think if you're a local theater

[00:13:00] They're just like Yeah, we got a bunch of shit in the back We don't need Like standees and all that stuff I'm a man of many regrets in life Sure I'm filled to the brim with regrets One of the top ones for me

[00:13:10] Was I went to what at the time I believed would be like the last Public screening of Margaret Sure Before the Save Margaret campaign happened When it just played at Did you see it at the cinema village? The Sunshine No, before that

[00:13:23] It was originally only at the Sunshine Right, and it was there for like Ten days in September Before it was outstead And I was so obsessed with it That I knew Okay, this is the last day It's gonna be playing I saw the latest showing on the Thursday

[00:13:33] So you asked for the poster I saw them pulling the poster down I didn't ask for Oh And I was like They're never gonna release this movie on DVD Cause it was caught up in so much Weird legal And I remember at the time

[00:13:46] It did feel like this sort of ephemeral thing I felt like if I don't see a second time I will never see it again Cause the cost didn't pop up For like two more months But I was like I could get this Margaret poster

[00:13:55] And even though it then Probably became more available The idea of it being like The one pull down from the Sunshine No, I just remember I mean, I don't know If you remember the Holloman poster Do you guys remember It's like a sort of a silhouette

[00:14:06] White on black Yeah It's a good poster When you said you were a man I thought you were going to say That you didn't see this in the theater I also didn't see it in the theater You're probably pretty young Yeah I had not seen it until

[00:14:16] Two nights ago Oh, okay I also ran it Whenever it came out on a TV I also realized I told the lie because I did Rent this on DVD And watch it right when it came out Because this was a big early DVD Yes Because it was like

[00:14:28] The kind of movie you wanted In the DVD format With the good sound Right And I believe it had You know Special features about the making of The normal 2000 era special features A featurette Do you guys remember Superbit Yes, this was a Superbit This was a Superbit

[00:14:41] Superbit was I was trying to remember What that was called I could picture the silver box But I couldn't remember I was going to say Ultrabit It was Superbit And it had like The steel border Frame around the movie poster Yeah, it looked like you had bought

[00:14:52] The Terminator 2 DVD For all DVDs For all DVDs And the idea was We're going so fucking extreme On the picture quality here Even though it's standard def Right That we don't even have Space for special features Right It's all the movie That was like the big deal

[00:15:08] Where a real like Yeah Like kind of like Cinephile You'd get a Superbit But then you'd also have to get The regular commercial release So that you could have the making of So Are you saying that when you watch this movie For the first time

[00:15:21] You watch it on a Superbit I watch it on a Superbit Congrats to you for watching I bought the Blu-ray So I own this movie on Blu-ray now I'm going to buy it Which I usually with Blank check I enjoy when we pick a new director

[00:15:32] I go to Amazon I load up on the Blu-rays Because they're usually cheap Because Blu-rays You can get them for like two bucks And there is always that moment where I'm like Yeah, but I'm not going to buy this one This I can rent Sure

[00:15:43] Do I want to own this forever? But that's why I own Like The Weight of Water on Blu-ray Or what I know on iTunes I think that one But I had the poster Can you tell me the tagline Because I think it's a great tagline Fuck

[00:15:55] I was looking at the poster last night It's a question and an answer What would you do Or some hypothetical pondering Yeah Think you're alone Think again Oh, okay There's a question and an answer Yeah Grif got the door Let me get the door Delivery

[00:16:17] Why don't think we ordered anything Oh yeah What I think box Let me just drop this off I'll call up my supervisor See if there is a false delivery Okay Oh, you're still leaving Oh wow Alright, and he's gone Oh, he's gone What's in the box

[00:16:32] What's in the box What's in the box Play music or something Is this a cereal box Hello, I'm Sarah Canig And I'm inside a box Oh god It's a cereal box Yeah I thought you guys wanted a cereal box I think there's

[00:16:49] There's just been a bit of a mix up I asked myself Who would want a cereal box Why would someone order that I think a lot of people What is this box Doing here in this room Sarah I know you're monologuing I can't hear you very well

[00:17:02] I'm inside a box Ben, can you just get the box off of her Like, you know, just open it up Alright Here There you go Alright Sarah, hi Hi, what's going on You're a legend in podcasting Oh Thanks for being here Thank you And I thought to myself

[00:17:18] Why is he complimenting me Is this for some greater gain Or is he just being nice Uh, Sarah If you can just focus in on me For a second, I know that's hard I started in David's eyes He seemed trustworthy But was I falling for him Wow

[00:17:31] Who else fully wanted Could I be objective anymore Sarah Let me tell you about cereal box Blankjack is sponsored by cereal box This week and adaptive studios And that's, it's an app That National Public Radio Has called the HBO of reading You work for National Public Radio

[00:17:47] So you know what I'm talking about I do Radio The device we use to listen to Audio Alright, well adaptive studios They're an entertainment studio They reimagine how film and TV And digital projects are developed And produced and distributed Much like I reimagined the podcast

[00:18:01] When I created the first podcast Correct And thanks for that by the way Because this is going well for us You're welcome Mail KIPP Cereal box brings you gripping stories Written by bestselling and award winning teams of writers Who develop these stories in a room

[00:18:17] Like a TV writer's room They have new episodes released every week And you can read or listen to all the serials At no extra cost And you can switch between listening And reading in one click So like if you're on the subway And listening to it

[00:18:29] But then you get off the subway And want to read it on the app It'll pick up right where you left I thought to myself Is there any kind of special deal? I guess I'll never know Some of these questions can never be answered

[00:18:40] Well, they've got this new serial called False Idols And our listeners can get this series now With a 20% discount on the first season of False Idols If you go to serialbox.com Slash blank check 20% discount Wow Now for some perspective Usually people pay 100% Right Well you get 20% off

[00:19:00] If you go to S-E-R-I-A S-E-R-I-A-L-B-O-X dot com slash blank check Only paying 80% You have to go to serialbox.com Slash blank check Or you can go to the redeem page And use the code check18 Then you will get a 20% discount On the first season of False Idols

[00:19:19] So I have to check the box 18 times? No, you just use the code check18 On the redeem page But Sarah Sarah, I'm going to let you finish But let me talk about false idols For one second Sure, sure thing You know it's about an FBI linguist

[00:19:35] Layla L. Deeb who is deep undercover Posing his narrows in the Middle East And has to infiltrate high estrangements of society Trace some priceless relics And her trouble pass And her growing feelings for an art dealer's son Complicated judgment And there's a big terrorist plot

[00:19:51] That she has to uncover And she has to decide where her loyalties lie It's a... you know it's heady stuff It's like the kind of stuff that you like to dig into Yeah, that sounds interesting But it still leaves one question What about the Nisha call?

[00:20:04] Forget the Nisha call just for one second And let me remind you to go to... Very tough, America cannot forget about the Nisha call S-E-R-I-A-L-B-O-X dot com slash blank check Or go to the redeem page and use code check18 For 20% off The first season of False Idols

[00:20:19] Well, thank you No, I want to put you back in the box Okay, before I do just say Jay and Anand did it together Oh, alright Hey, sorry about that Wrong, wrong... I was supposed to deliver this To Flat Stanley Do you know where he lives?

[00:20:32] Oh boy, he's always mailing himself everywhere Flat Stanley, he's very famous Everyone knows who Flat Stanley is Ah, forget it I'll figure it out Sorry And as I was telling Alex off Mike In the like, you know, 15 or so minutes Before you showed up

[00:20:49] Whatever period of time that was Two hours Kevin Bacon is my favorite actor As I think I might have mentioned on this podcast And you've mentioned a lot in your life You'd like to put some bacon on the dish if you can

[00:21:00] I love a side of bacon or a... Or on top, a crumble Yeah, main of bacon A strip in the middle You're fine with whatever And boy, you get some bacon strip in this movie This was one of those first movies Whenever

[00:21:11] You do, you get some bacon strip Yeah, well yeah, we'll get into it Is this the most CGI penis? Most bacon dick No, because I was thinking It's not a this and Watchmen I think Watchmen I think this trumps it

[00:21:21] This has you more thinking about the fact that His, you know, dick is sort of flapping around As he's doing all these horrible things Like killing poor Greg Grumberg Yes, and this movie was pointless He was killed by a naked man And this movie has... It has...

[00:21:36] The dick depicted in different states Yeah, right, right, right Like you've rarely had to use CGI This was a one... I mean they didn't scan Billy Crudup's dick They scan Kevin Bacon's dick That's his dick Yeah, they definitely like

[00:21:46] They just had an artist come up with a dick for Watchmen This is Kevin Bacon's dick In 15 different forms Right Yeah, they probably had a whole day Of like photographing it from every angle I mean, pointedly they did I read a lot of stuff on this movie

[00:21:57] I loved Kevin Bacon Yes, you loved Kevin Bacon And so I was very excited for this movie Because it was that rare Kevin Bacon vehicle Yes Which, you know, usually he was your You know, your off-ball guy But he had had stirrup echoes the year before

[00:22:12] Which I think is an underrated little movie It's like a nice little scary movie That got totally blown out of the water By the sixth sense Yeah And then he was in My Dog Skip Sure, the same year The same year at Hollow Man And then after that

[00:22:25] Yeah He stopped being a star Because like 80s he's a leading man And then 2000s he becomes either Like a villain Or like the right hand man good guy Right, but you skipped the 90s You skipped the 90s in which he has this

[00:22:39] I'm sorry, that's what I meant the 90s was The 90s was that Right There's a lot of heavies Heavies, villains, weird guys Like this incredible character run But then you also have like the Apollo 13 The basis of like the game Of the Six Degrees game Sure

[00:22:53] Where it's like he just pops up in a lot of things In a lot of different like scenarios J.F.K. murdering the first Well, do you want me to run it down for you? Run it down for me Yeah The big picture

[00:23:03] Which I think is a great movie The Christopher Guest one Yes Tremors, Flatliners JFK Which he's so good in A few good men Which is where I fell in love with him Right The air up there In which he's circumcised on screen

[00:23:16] It's the second thing I've told you about Circumcision today out I wonder what the first one is The River Wild Yeah Which he's, I think I love that movie Yeah And he's, I love him in that movie Murdering the first His only SAG nomination And the River Wild

[00:23:32] He's got a Globe nomination, right? I think that's right I think for both those movies People thought he might get the Oscar now But he didn't Yeah Apollo 13 sleepers And then sleepers is where He really starts to be like Let me just be like Really monstrous on screen

[00:23:44] A lot of the time Wild things Yeah Stereo beckows Yeah Well, he starts engaging In the kinky side He gets a little kinky, right? Even when he's not playing Sexually explicit characters There's a sort of weird dark charm To what he's doing a lot

[00:24:02] How do you feel about bacon? Well, that's a great run Of notable movies Like there's nothing in there That everyone's like Wait, what is that? Right I'm running with some good directors too He was never like an anonymous guy And I kind of was thinking During this like

[00:24:14] Movies like this are so amazing Because there was this like Brief window that I was kind of Trying to figure out That I'm sure you'll have more on Where guys like your Bacon's and your gold blooms And your cages Suddenly somehow became Like a viable studio leading man

[00:24:31] For a summer release Where it's like They're kind of locked into that Nicholas Cage somehow goes from Wild at Heart to Conair In like six years Right And like Kevin Bacon Somehow goes from Like, you know Those things to this In like ten years Goldbloom had a point

[00:24:44] Where he was in three of the Twenty highest grossing movies of all time You know Which is crazy to think about And that's like After he was making, you know Transylvania Like fucking Right, right, right Trapped and you know Deep cover Like he's And then suddenly he's just

[00:25:00] The leading And I feel like Bacon Is the same kind of thing In this movie Which I believe as a thing Totally ends around this time Those guys are either movie stars But then there's no more like Steve Buscemi becomes The leading man in a movie

[00:25:11] Like he gets to be in there But I feel like Watching this movie and thinking Like, oh, there is a time where A 45 year old man Who became famous 15 years ago Is now the lead in a studio summer movie Yeah Like that was to me

[00:25:26] A very interesting thing of being like There's no version of this now I mean we could just talk about Bacon For this entire episode But you go like Obviously Footloose is the big thing Right, after being in like But at that point You'd already been in like

[00:25:38] Three iconic movies He's already in like Animal House In Friday the 13th Right But like Footloose is what makes him Like a leading man, right? Sure And there's a career he couldn't play out from there Even like she's having a baby

[00:25:47] Like he has those 80s leading guy roles Where he's like He's handsome He's a handsome guy But he's talked about the fact that he Felt uncomfortable Yeah, he didn't like it By the way he was sort of Viewed after Footloose Quick silver Sure

[00:25:59] He does a lot of comedies He does a lot of leading man stuff But when he gets to the 90s Oh, and he's in diner of course Right Right So good in that Right, he's got those three movies before Footloose But then when he gets to the 90s

[00:26:10] He wants to like shake that off And I think there's a lack of vanity to him That I've always really loved For a guy who could have been Just a very conventional leading man At that point Doing things where he's not above the title

[00:26:20] Or where he's number two Or where he's playing the oddball You know Or just doing like heavy lifting support Like Apollo 13 Love him in that He seems to just fucking love acting You know Yes And I read I don't know if you guys read this

[00:26:35] I must have read this when it was Published as well Which was weird He has a very good reputation too Just like a nice guy Hardworking Good guy He, when this movie was coming out Wrote a column that I think ran Two or three consecutive weeks in

[00:26:49] Entertainment Weekly called The Hollow Man Diaries That must have been a big part of Why I was so excited for this I have this called up Oh no no I owned this copy of Entertainment Weekly And I read it over and over again His Diaries

[00:27:01] And it includes his utter depression Over the flop of Stir of Echoes Which came out while he was shooting this And then just the miserable process Of making this movie And being like cast in rubber and wax But it goes from him being miserable

[00:27:14] About trying to get this movie And thinking he wasn't going to get it To him being miserable about making this movie The first half of the Diary is him Trying to impress Paul Verhoeven And get this gig And their first choice was Robert Downey Jr. Interesting

[00:27:27] Who turned it down And he remembers reading in the trades He thought he was going to get it He reads that they've offered To Robert Downey Jr. And he hits rock bottom Which you go At this point Kevin Bacon's been famous For like 20 years, right?

[00:27:38] Or has been a working actor for 20 years Has been hyper famous for like 15 of those And still is in this state where he's like Fuck I'm not going to get the part Like he's like Griffin Newman Staying up until 6 o'clock in the morning

[00:27:49] Being two hours late to his podcast Because he's stressing out about getting a job You know? I'm an idiot But he really fucking wanted this job And thought he wasn't going to get it And felt like There's a really touching thing At the end of the Diary

[00:28:03] Where he's complaining to his daughter Who is like 8 at the time About like the movie And the toll it had taken on him and everything And she said Dad, you remember how excited you were When you got this And you were jumping up and down and crying

[00:28:14] But you really wanted this part It's cool that he didn't think like I'm not going to get it Because I'm kind of an older guy And I don't get the lead in movies anymore He thought he wasn't going to get it Because he just thought he lost it

[00:28:25] And not only that Like he had given it away Where he's like I wasn't even trying to get leading parts anymore So maybe yeah I can't And you go It's like him versus Downey Jr. And Downey Jr. Like Rocky stayed at this point

[00:28:36] This was him like trying to get back up But he still had a couple more like Slapdowns after this This is like In between Wonder Boys And Allie McBeal Well Wonder Boys comes out this same year Right And Allie McBeal is a one of them

[00:28:50] In the variety piece where they say That he was the first choice It says that he was just filming Wonder Boys Yeah He was sort of on a reclamation tour I think Downey Jr. Probably wisely realized He couldn't play someone this monstrous If he was trying to like

[00:29:04] Get America's heart back Which is also exactly why I think they wanted him to do this Because he was so seedy at this point in time But he's like in in dreams as a creep Like he had done some creeps recently Downey was Yeah Downey

[00:29:17] So do you feel like Bacon at this time Who does he have to impress in Paul Verhoeven Who just maybe you've covered this But like is coming off of A pretty bad period himself Yes and not only that Had just made a movie featuring Essentially like animated

[00:29:32] Barbie and Ken Dolls Like it's not like He was like look I just worked with Casper Vandy And Kevin so I don't know if I'm gonna Like him on But he said he felt the need to make a movie That like worked you know

[00:29:42] He was like feeling a little Smarted That was what compelled him to do this movie He doesn't like this movie Right Do you know about like He's very down on this movie Online after watching it Yeah where he's just like I made that movie

[00:29:56] Essentially to prove this point That I could still make like a movie That he made money And he said he was so depressed afterwards That he was like He moved back to Denmark He like right Where I think he Kind of correctly said

[00:30:10] Like a lot of people could have made this movie And I never felt that way about a movie I made before And I think he's right Because the script for this movie Is really weak Yeah Although Alex may disagree And I'm excited for Alex's taken

[00:30:25] For the mystery of why he wants to talk all then And all the other things That are gonna come up on this podcast He's correct in a sense that No one else could have made His movies The way they were made Right but this movie

[00:30:37] Everything that's interesting about it is for Hoven You know? There's sections of this movie There are elements of this movie And the visual effects That feel a little more conventional But I'm saying that I consider that baked into the cake I think what's interesting Baked into the cake?

[00:30:50] I consider it baked into the cake I think everything that's interesting About the visual effects in this movie Is very much in line with where he was at In terms of visual effects at that point in time He was very Excitingly engaged with that stuff

[00:31:00] I mean at least after Starship Troopers Not prior to that at all really And he's just like It just seems so pointless for him to Make a movie that has no point of view And nothing to say Which all of the other movies Robocop Total Recall

[00:31:15] Right up until Starship Troopers They all have a very distinct point of view But also like A lot of those movies In my recollection Are things that like Other directors were always attached to Like Cronenberg attached to Total Recall But then Verhoeven makes it

[00:31:29] And it's obviously the only good version of that movie That would have been made Whereas this feels like And I have a fun list of Potential other directors That Verhoeven is not But this feels like And again these are not all people Of this exact moment But like

[00:31:42] I'm just trying to find it Because I wrote down some fun ones Obviously very Verhoeveny hooked to this movie Which is The invisible man would just be a creep He would rape people That wasn't necessarily his idea No, I assume the script had that I'm curious like

[00:31:56] What the origin is of the like Not your grandfather's blank And like why that would have seemed Like a good idea Well, I think there's an even bigger thing I mean you made your dark universe stroke earlier But there was this run That ends with this movie essentially

[00:32:09] But runs through the 90s of Let's take the universal monsters So you're saying With this Kenneth Branis Frankenstein Even before that wolf Bram Sturker's Dracula and Wolf Yes I think all four of these movies are Let's take the classic Universal Monsters And the Mummy

[00:32:23] Which I think is right before this Yes, but I think that's outside of this The four movies No, I think that's in this The point I'm making is The four movies that are What if we take the classic monsters And make them really sexual Yeah, rated R

[00:32:34] No, I agree with you on that Which is Wolf Frankenstein, Dracula and this And then Shape of Water weirdly is a spiritual Shape of water is its own thing You're saying it's the original dark universe Imagine if you united Nicholson Bacon Oldman De Niro And Arnold Vosloo

[00:32:53] Yeah, that's a murderer's row But there was like A lot of that stuff was happening For whatever reason But none of those I mean they're all kind of not your grandfather So and so And they're all sort of like modern takes

[00:33:03] And the Mummy was the only one that Universal actually did Which is the one that isn't hypersexual But to that end Like watching this And thinking about it In the context of your Hoven Who I love tremendously As a filmmaker Like this is not Stephen Summers

[00:33:17] Or like Stephen Norrington Or like Len Weisman Or like any of these kind of Genre-y guys who you can make An R rated genre movie Like any of them could have done that But if your Hoven's like Especially you could do something else

[00:33:30] And instead he just kind of makes the like Van Helsing Underworld version of this movie Van Helsing is a good follow up to what you were talking about That's the Avengers of the 90s dark universe Trying to do it backwards I kept on thinking during this

[00:33:42] Could you imagine if this movie came out in like August of this year Like how the whole fucking critical community Would react to this movie Which at the time To this exact movie? Yes Like if the... What I'm saying is When this movie came out everyone was like

[00:33:57] The menacing returns for Verhoeven But it's so bizarre I don't think it's a perfect movie But it's so its own fucking thing And it actually does have ideas in it I don't think it has a coherent thesis Which the other Verhoeven movies The Hollywood films do

[00:34:12] I think this movie is more just Batting around a lot of stuff And the fact that the ending is such a shrug Goes to show that he didn't really have anything That's like winding up to say I mean this movie is

[00:34:21] What if a guy was an invisible man Okay 20 minutes and he becomes invisible And then immediately he attacks a woman Squeezes her boobs Like I mean like Two minutes in He squeezes Kim Dickens boobs 10 minutes in He's raped a woman

[00:34:34] And then there's an hour and a half of movie left No there's like an hour I was watching the clock pretty close I was watching the clock Because what I think is interesting about this movie Is it's essentially The first half is kind of a character study

[00:34:45] Of what would be the psychological effects If you didn't have Yeah It's sort of what could What would you do if you could get away with anything Right And then there's a point where the movie Just becomes a slasher film Yeah exactly The last half

[00:34:58] One of it one being picked off That's like the halfway point It's very strange How like Non Specifically Verhoeveny it is But also like to your point Of like what if it came out I don't think at this time People thought about him No

[00:35:11] I think like this is That's the point I'm trying to make I think I wrote you both an email about this Like in the middle of your Catherine Bigelow series Like I think this is a movie that could have been reviewed Upon release without people mentioning

[00:35:21] That Paul Verhoeven made it Yeah Because at the time No one really took him seriously Yes Except that he was famous as having made hits But no one was like Is Verhoeven back after the bomb Of Starship Troopers It was just like whatever This is some summer thriller

[00:35:34] He almost was viewed like Wolfgang Peterson Where it's like You divorce Doss Boot from the guy Who's currently making Poseidon I remember because I would read all the fucking reviews Of everything whether or not I was seeing it And I remember everyone would just be like

[00:35:47] It's a dumb summer like fuck you whatever And I remember Time Out New York was the one place That like viewed this of a piece With the Verhoeven arc Yeah And I was like wait This is supposed to be an interesting movie

[00:35:58] Like this is a movie that people are engaging with Critically but it was the only review I read That was going like Verhoeven's like really smart about the fact That like If someone had the power to become invisible A man would just Use it for sexual deviancy

[00:36:13] Which is very That's a point of view But also like this confused the fact That the other Paul Verhoeven movies were Very satirical Yes But also Lurid and Gross and Sexual And this is just Lurid and Gross and Sexual This is removing the satire

[00:36:28] Which all of them are Every single one of them Correct They're all comedics In like a way they're Even L and like still Yeah L's a comedy He does these things that are like Yeah but what's like absurd about this situation Is this thing that I can see

[00:36:39] Because I'm this weird Dutchman with black humor He's a wattu the watcher Very much so The Dutch a wattu the watcher And yet like this just There's no like But what's absurd about this It's just like What's absurd about this is how much blood there is

[00:36:53] And what's absurd about this is like Watching an invisible boob Like a boob gets squeezed by an invisible hand Right Well that's the thing By the way the only image from this movie I remembered other than the infrared Peanuts dangling I remember the infrared dicks

[00:37:05] I remember him smashing the dog to pieces For like No reason except They kind of needed him to do something crazy You know for like It'd been ten minutes since he'd done something crazy Sure And I remember also Bacon describing in his diary How they shot that scene

[00:37:19] Which is he has a real dog Yeah And he's like hey doggy hey doggy And then he passes the dog off screen And is handed A fake dog full of blood That he then smashes around Yeah And when we watch it I notice you know

[00:37:33] He totally like just like Takes it out of frame Yeah The thing with this movie for me Is that it has some of the most Bizarre upsetting I think brilliant image Or he's ever come up with in any film Cause he's mostly just kind of into the

[00:37:51] Visual possibilities of this guy The stages of his body And the way he interacts with the elements Right well that's so fun But there are moments in this movie Where like feels like There are images that feel like Fucking like on Shananda Lu for me

[00:38:01] Where it's like this just makes me So fucking uncomfortable Like what When she has the sort of Makeshift flamethrower And he's in his weird burned state Yeah that's cool That is very cool Right The rubber mask is cool too The rubber mask is incredible

[00:38:18] The rubber mask is so good Super fucking upsetting But I even think things like the groping Are really bizarre the way They do the CGI fingerprint The first groping scene When he's choking Greg Grunberg Some of the stuff where it's his Hands touching things

[00:38:31] The way it's realized is like Really fucking creepy to me But my complaint is kind of like The set is sort of anonymous It's a weird donut underground Right so much So many action sequences take place in a hallway It also feels to me like

[00:38:46] I was talking to someone who worked on The Shape of Water Asking about how they got it down for that budget Because the sets are so big in that movie When they're in like the underground lab And they were like

[00:38:57] The secret is we only had like one set And we shoot it from different angles And we redress it And this feels like a movie Where they came up with one section of the lab And the whole movie takes place in these fucking hallways

[00:39:08] That they keep on shooting from different angles To make it look like It's an intricate series of like an underground maze After the movie ended I wrote this down I went back and like Maybe I didn't It was exactly But there's like 37 minutes of this movie

[00:39:21] That does not leave the lab Except for one short scene With Brolin and Elizabeth Shoe at their house And then it's like a 40 second scene And then they're back to the lab And you're mostly in these hallways You know it's like it gets very repetitive

[00:39:34] It's entirely in this lab Yeah, from like 20 to 55 There's 60 seconds not in this lab Which is weird And it's also a very Indifferently designed lab But it also feels like It feels like if the movie was budget like 55 No, the budget was really high 95

[00:39:51] It feels like 60 of that is special effects And the rest of it is like a set Pointedly it says on the Wikipedia And who knows how accurate this is The budget was 90 And 55 was just for the digital effects That's perfectly logical

[00:40:03] Like when he set out to make this movie He was like I want to push fucking visual effects $55 million goes towards CGI The rest of it will like do what we can That balance is not weird I mean that's not at all Ordinary I think Right

[00:40:16] It's cool that they were like Yeah but also the movie can be violent and sexual We're not going to protect our investment By making this movie accessible to people No, it's a Columbia movie It's a big studio movie I mean it came out in August

[00:40:26] Which in 2000 is your kind of dumping Ground for your more lurid blockbusters But yes But it did pretty well I mean it opened big It did okay It opened very big Especially considering August And it did well overseas It did okay It made 190 worldwide Made 73 domestic

[00:40:44] I think that's a reason they might have been Hesitant to cast bacon though It's like A, we've designed this movie To not need that big of a star And B, will a star that well known Be okay being invisible for that much of the movie Being this unpathetic

[00:40:59] Not being invisible So we got to talk about billing Because the first email I sent you guys Once I fired this up I couldn't believe it I had totally forgotten Even though I had the poster in my house In my room Next to a training day poster

[00:41:12] With just a huge Denzel And like a tiny sliver of Ethan Hawks Face behind him That's like a great indifferent set design For some young man's bedroom These movies are violent And then you would say Why are those the two movies in his bedroom And then it's like

[00:41:26] Oh they're both released by the studio And they both came out in the summer of 2000 It's a rom-com with a flashback To the character being a teenager in 2001 And those are the two posters No, training day is 2001 I believe I said 2001 Yeah no I know

[00:41:39] I was correcting myself You know what does a really good version of that The movie that you already love Because you've seen it now at the post There's a scene at the beginning Where they break into One of the early break in scenes They're surrounded by Fox posters

[00:41:53] And it's really good They're appropriate Fox posters It's when Ellsberg is copying the papers Oh yeah right, you're right Yeah, like Invasion of the Bodice You'll see, you'll love it I loved it by now It's really good fucking Original Planet of the Apes You've loved it

[00:42:06] It's your favorite movie that you're a problem Went wild for Odin Kirk's performance But you're gonna talk about the Holloman Billing Oh yes, yes, yes So the billing of this movie Thank you Alex I'm just excited to talk about Because it's baffling Is number one build Right

[00:42:19] Elizabeth Shue Now they got her first Like they made it very clear That the most important role for them was her Because I think they viewed that as This is our Lori Strode, you know This is our final girl

[00:42:30] That's really who the audience is gonna have to connect with In this movie And thought maybe we'll get it down on his luck Character actor to play the Holloman But still at this time they were like You know who can be our final girl

[00:42:40] Is like a 40 year old woman Right, right That's true Like four years off of an Oscar nomination Is kind of in a career swing Well let me give you her You know after You know Elizabeth Shue and As a fucking Hamlet 2 Says dreamer with the fucking horse Right

[00:42:58] Isn't that the line She has a big 80s Yeah, it's dreamer She's a big 80s with Karate Kid And the Back to the Future sequels And adventures and babysitting And then she's in The Underneath And then she's in Leaving Las Vegas Suddenly she's like a serious actor now

[00:43:11] So the 96 she's in the trigger effect The David Kapp movie, forget that Then she's in The Saint So they both worked with Kapp They did both work with Kapp Kapp's people The Saint is a huge bomb Sure But it was a big paycheck for her

[00:43:27] Yeah, and she's above the title And she wouldn't have gotten that part Pre Leaving Las Vegas That was a big revival And then she's in Deconstructing Harry Right Then she's in Palmetto What's Palmetto? Oh, what's Palmetto? Volker, Schondorf, fucking Woody Harrelson What a hero

[00:43:42] It's a very sexy thriller Gina Gershawn I believe I think so In a classic like Mc90s Gina Gershawn role If it's not the bayou It's like essentially the bayou It's like everyone's sweaty And the lawyer's office is above something I've got to see this

[00:43:53] Yeah, there's like lawyers There's no one in the office You know, it's like a good description That run of mid-90s Is like Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil They're like Twilight You know these movies were like Savannah, yeah Yeah, exactly Twilight's a weird one

[00:44:05] Robert Benton's Twilight Fucking like a whole new man Paul Newman Hapman And Serendon It's like hot movies about Hot sexual adults And Louisiana Blood and wine Blood and wine Yeah And decent exposure It's like A decent proposal That's what I'm thinking of, right?

[00:44:20] Well that was actually a hit Yeah That's also what he had That's also what he had I mean a decent proposal Has the best trailer of all time Yeah, what do you have a sexy 90s? He did Even though his hair was thinning

[00:44:30] And he was the idiot from Cheers I mean no offence It's a weird undervite Yeah Palmetto is very solid I'd check that out If you like it, it was a show I'd check that There's like a very sexual Like I think he's either What do you hear else

[00:44:41] Is either like a cop or a lawyer But there's a very sexual Like frisking thing That becomes like a consensual Fondling between him and Elizabeth Shoe Shoe is great I mean she's very But I'm just Just cousin, Bette Whatever Molly I've never even heard of that

[00:44:56] I looked Molly up It's like a handicapped adult movie Oh my God I think it's either Down syndrome Or autism or something I instantly wanted to see it after That's actually Autistic She's so fucking good In leaving Las Vegas A movie I've never been crazy about

[00:45:12] I like that movie I don't know how do you feel about Leaving Las Vegas I haven't seen it since Yeah, I haven't seen it Since I was a teenager I bet it would hold up I think it doesn't hold up I think she's the element

[00:45:22] That holds up entirely And it was because She was mostly like A kind of teen star in the 80s It was like a big deal that now Like oh wait this is a serious actor Right And then she doesn't really Get the parts that play to

[00:45:37] Her ability again She makes some terrible decisions I would say Or whatever She just doesn't get the right roles This is her last role And at this point she's 40 Which in this awful fucking industry Is like Well what's cool is that They're the same age in this movie

[00:45:50] I like that they're both I love that too I like that they're both adults And they're pros It's a very Verhoeven thing Even after Starship Trooper Is like She's a sexy adult He's a handsome adult man Her character likes sex A lot in this movie

[00:46:03] I don't know if you notice That seems to be the only defining Character trait she has Unfortunately Because she really is Sexually aggressive whenever She's alone Right But it's cool that they're both It's not I mean I don't know who in 2000 It would have been

[00:46:15] I'm sure we can think of something But it's not like 30 year old woman And 45 year old man Right Kind of gross It's not Denise Richards and Casper Vanity Right Or like Denise Richards And Kevin Baker Kevin Baker In the movie Wild Things Yes Right Yes it's not Wild

[00:46:32] Yeah No but I think you're right I also just But I do think Like it's almost crazy to me To think that Bacon Like had to fight for this role Because Like he was born to play this role Which he might be upset to hear Right

[00:46:43] But it's like You need a guy who you're only Going to see for 10 minutes 15 minutes whatever Yeah Who you just need to know Like yeah the second that guy Goes invisible He is just being the worst Well you know that because He has like a knee-length leather jacket

[00:46:55] Yes He has a knee-length leather jacket He lies to congress Like at the drop of a hat Yeah And he tells the most Convoluted terrible Superman anal sex joke Oh boy Yeah Like eats up like A minute and a half Longer Longer I remember that as a big

[00:47:11] School yard joke I remember that joke too But like he tells it slowly Even Ben jumped in to say How bad that joke is Alright so Ben Let's get Ben in there Ben the producer Ben the producer Ben the haze Mr. Positive Mr. Positive

[00:47:25] Poet Lori at the tie breaker The peeper Dirt bike Benning Soak and wet Benning Heart detective The meat lover We have him wish you A hello fennel In a good period of time It's been a while Yeah I mean you are the fuck master

[00:47:38] You are not professor crispy No And you have graduated certain titles For the course of different miniseries Such as Kylo Ben, producer Ben Kenobi Ben I, Shyamalan Ben Sey, Sey Ben anything Ailey Ben's with a dollar sign War haze Ben 19, the fennel maker Perduer Bane And also

[00:47:53] Oh this is the one Well whether or not we're doing A bonus episode He's Robo haze I guess right I guess so But we don't usually name him Within the miniseries I don't know Yeah whatever We're throwing out options I'm thinking about stuff

[00:48:07] Have you ever covered that when you do that Ben Just sits with his hand on his forehead Like as though like you're just jabbing him No Good to get that on the record I'm glad that you brought that out The entire duration of that

[00:48:18] You just, because the whole time so far You're kind of engaged You're watching your As soon as that happens Your eyes close and your Hand touches your temple Well especially because I do it When Ben's getting ready to actually say something

[00:48:30] So I'm stopping him from making a point That he wants to make it that way He needed to point out how bad That Justice League joke was Which is more relevant now than ever That's like the most bottom of the barrel Posts like Crimson Peak, Tarantino

[00:48:40] Like Script Polish kind of joke Or it's like you know what this movie needs Is like 60 seconds of lewd pop culture That's what it is It's a guy who thinks he's Tarantino Who's like oh I'm gonna have a whole Superman walk-in talk scene It's the Mallrats Kryptonite condom

[00:48:54] It's unbelievable We were talking about Kevin Bacon's character Wearing like this long leather jacket And the whole problem I had the whole time Is they're trying so hard to make science seem cool Well we're also, you have to remember We're post Ian Malcolm here Sure

[00:49:09] And post the fly Post David Brundle All the Goldblum scientists are cool That was Goldblum's whole thing Was can I make scientists like rock stars Seth Brundle, David Brundle Seth Brundle Seth Brundle Got it there I played taboo with my family Over the Thanksgiving break

[00:49:24] Which at this point was a year ago I was teamed up with my mom Who is probably the worst taboo player In North America Uh huh And she Because she just says the word by mistake Every time or just she doesn't

[00:49:37] Bad at both sides of it in every way Here's another thing my mom does during taboo She gets a card and she goes Uh pass But at that point she's already taken up ten seconds Yeah, yeah, yeah Um but she got fly as a word Fly

[00:49:52] And her clue for me was David Cronenberg's first movie And I just like put my head in my hands And said I know it's not what you think it is And my siblings were like That's the most griffin moment of all time

[00:50:04] Was like I don't know what word you're trying to get The taboo word was stereo Yeah, stereo But you could I was like is it scanners Yeah but couldn't you think of what her Idea of his first movie would be I went through all of them And then

[00:50:16] Which one was it and she was like flying I was like that was this fucking sixth movie Oh like seven Tenth Like kidding me I went like fast company Like I was going like deep cuts She was like no his first one

[00:50:26] I was like it's not the one you think it is Use a different clue Um this I was thinking about the fly a lot during this He's a very fly reckless guy Doing his experimentation on himself Yeah no he's in the tradition I already mentioned

[00:50:39] Of like here's this weird actor from ten years ago Who's now the star of a movie And also he seems smart and cool and old So he can do whatever And Elizabeth Shue kind of has a Gina Davis She could be a Gina Davis Yes

[00:50:51] It's very fly like minus the like overt disgustingness But still and also Brolin is the same As the stand-in boyfriend in the fly Who like I don't even remember who the actor is But like he's just some hunk of meat But Brolin's a total baxter in this movie

[00:51:04] Which is fascinating because it looks like that was going to be The rest of Brolin's career Brolin in this movie is It's wild to think that he is now Thanos You know like the like whatever Like that he is like Hollywood's like Big burly guy

[00:51:16] His body is so disgusting in this movie When he has his shirt off It's huge and puffy and smooth And he's got the glasses I think To try and make him look nerdy Because otherwise like We're just never gonna buy that this guy Is the third scientist

[00:51:29] Like the guy who's like I don't know guys If that's a good science experiment Josh Brolin's one of those guys And I'm gonna say this as delicately as I can He's one of those guys And I think Hollywood has now figured out

[00:51:40] How to shoot him and how to dress him But he looks like a six foot two man with dwarfism Oh that's a good point He's got very weird proportions He's got short arms I think he's like six foot one Really? Yeah He's got very short arms

[00:51:54] And a really big head And a stubby body He's five ten Which is a perfectly You know For Hollywood pretty tall Yes But I remember like seeing him do monologues on SNL And going like He looks like he's five foot one You know? He's the one who's

[00:52:08] Absurdly rich just from online stock trading Right? Like he made He made like so much money doing that He's sort of like a Jeremy Renner That's amazing And like being in movies Is just like kind of a joke to him or whatever

[00:52:19] Imagine how much he's cleaning up on bitcoins and stuff Oh my gosh He probably Thanos likes bitcoins Very weird in this movie But the scientists are very Sex Those two are sexy Brolin's kind of like a potato Potato with glasses

[00:52:34] Then you have like the rest of the bench You have Kim Dickens But she's been given this short haircut I think so that the audience will be like She's a real scold You know what I mean? Right I thought her haircut was more like Oh, she's like crunchy

[00:52:47] Because she wears no bra and loves animals She wears no bra She's a vet So I guess she's like Very 2000 in this movie Oh my God She's wearing giant baggy pants With like little tiny cardigans With nothing underneath And bright the button top I like adork him Dickens

[00:53:01] I also find her like I couldn't believe she was in this movie Incredibly appealing Where are you between this and Gongirl? Uh, so I mean Cause this would have seemed like a great break For someone getting into Hollywood movies She's like the fifth character

[00:53:12] Take your top off of your hoe And there's, you know, worse ways to the top Exactly And then when I saw her in Gongirl I was like who is this actress She's great She mostly goes to TV Because well no Before then she's on Deadwood

[00:53:22] And everyone who was on Deadwood Then went to Lost Cause Damon Lindelof was obsessed with Deadwood And when Deadwood got like Kind of untimely cancelled He like started just literally writing parts For everyone in Deadwood And so there's like season three And four of Lost

[00:53:36] It's like it practically is just like The Deadwood guest star Cavill They were in the tail section Paul and Alcubeson You know, Kim Dickens Welcome them all You know, and Uh, but Who was she on Lost? She was Sawyer's Yeah, she was Sawyer's Recruiting Mara Recruiting Mark

[00:53:52] And the mother of his child Cunnington Interesting Um, but so She was in the blind side too, right? I want to start at the beginning Cause we were talking about Palmetto Her debut Was in Alan Taylor's Palucaville Which is a 1995 movie William Forsythe Vincent Gallo Lisa Gay Hamilton

[00:54:13] Like it's like where we're just like Just like who Francis McDormand is in that movie Yeah And then, you know, I think she's sort of a note You know, she was in Zero Effect Remember that Oh yeah I think she's sort of the love interest in that

[00:54:26] She's in Mercury Rising Which we have invoked a weird amount of time I feel like you just talked about that Yeah I talked about how badly I wanted to see it Cause it was about a weird kid Yeah And then this year she's in Hollerman and the Gift

[00:54:36] I think she has a small role in the gift Okay Uh, and then she's in House of Sand and Fog Which I believe she's like The, like, you know The Sand I remember her in that What was Ben doing? He sent me a hilarious note

[00:54:50] I'm never gonna do what he asked me to do But no, she moved to TV Like Deadwood Lost She was in 12 Miles of Bad Road What's that? The HBO show with Lily Tomlin That was filmed but never aired I've always been obsessed with that Yeah, yeah

[00:55:08] They shot a full season of that And then she's in Trumay Which is I feel like when people really take her seriously And then she's a great young girl And then that's when she sort of loops back around And she's in Gone Girl

[00:55:17] And, you know, the great Miss Peregrine's Home for a Beautiful I mean, Precure Your Children She's really, she's great But she's pretty good in this movie It's a shame that like Her most memorable scene is having her bosom squeezed By an invisible hand

[00:55:29] The boob grab scene is just a Feet of visual effects Where you are kind of like How did they do this? Yeah, it's so upsetting Dude, invisible acting fucking rules You're just into invisible acting I think it's great You mean being the invisible one

[00:55:44] Or being acting against someone who's meant to be invisible I think it's like for the actor It's the best kind of performing For them, right? And for us Would you say that the hour and 50 minutes We were waiting for Griffin He might actually have already been here

[00:55:56] Thank you Oh my God, wait That's what I'm gonna do in this much-balleyhood audition As well as show up two hours late Is it the whole time he was just in here naked Invisible Waiting to see what we would say about him

[00:56:07] Because we think we're alone, but were we? Yeah, he was just standing there naked I was actually early You guys don't realize that Yeah, that's what happened Okay David, I gotta bring this up I gotta talk about this You're gonna get upset but I gotta talk about this

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[00:58:58] For a trail membership audible That's right That's all we can do Wanna go higher? No about the Holloman Oh, God To round out the ensemble We got Greg Grumberg A.K.A. Facke and Arieves Sure, Joey Slotnik Joey Slotnik Now this is where my thing comes in

[00:59:18] Oh, here we go I need help with this Okay Because this is important to me And this is a big part of why I was thinking about this movie A lot when it came out Do you remember And if not someone In your fandom

[00:59:30] A blankie has to provide this Do you remember how much Craig Kilborn Made Joey Slotnik a running gag No Forever Slotnik was like his A-Vagoda? Yes 100% I don't know Was Slotnik a part of the gag? No He was always there Okay, okay

[00:59:48] Joey Slotnik was always on Craig Kilborn As himself Because Craig Kilborn seemed to have some relationship With Jonathan Silverman Okay They seem to be friends So he was in the single guy orbit Sure And therefore he was always We're just staying right in 1995 We're just never leaving

[01:00:02] So he was part of the SGU He was all, yes Yeah, well you got Ming Na You got Ernest Borgne They weren't made fun of by Kilborn But he was deep into the single guy somehow And Slotnik was always the butt Of some running joke on Kilborn

[01:00:16] That I can neither remember Nor find online I cannot remember nor find it Oh, I see So you remember this happening But you don't have evidence of it So for the month leading up To the release of Hollow Man Kilborn was always talking about Slotnik

[01:00:28] And Slotnik must have been on five or six times He would pop into the beginning He would be a cutaway So you were watching Kilborn every night? Every night There was another reason I knew this movie came out in the summer Because I was watching Kilborn every night

[01:00:40] So this is Kilborn This is incredible Post-daily show Or is this This is late night I could watch Slotnik Because Slotnerman then watched Kilborn He gets late night in 99, I think So this is early Kilborn late night

[01:00:50] And the way he wants to make his mark on late night Is by having some running gag with Slotnik That I barely remember But remember so vividly As happening So when I had the opportunity to Because I was not invited to be here I asked to be here

[01:01:03] It was because I need to just see If anyone else remembers how or why Kilborn was always talking about Joey Slotnik To the extent that when I saw this movie with my friends And when he came on I said there's Joey Slotnik Thinking that this would be funny

[01:01:17] I thought everyone knew that the words Joey Slotnik could get a laugh He was like snakes on a plane Yes, truly And I can't remember what this was Or why But everyone else has to be able to There's no proof I googled it for a little bit

[01:01:29] Yeah, you like tried to Couldn't find anything There's no clips of like Oh, 10 minute compilation of Kilborn Slotnik You know one problem I think that you have Is that I think CBS has just erased Craig Gilborn from the internet Like they just don't want to acknowledge

[01:01:42] That that ever happened Well the other thing that I know connects this Is that I believe also summer 2000 Maybe 2001 2001 when John Favreau's maid came out Sure John's, John and Silverman is in that movie Very briefly And that was also a big running Kilborn thing He kept every time

[01:01:58] Favreau or Vince Vaughn will be on the show He'd be like, most important question Why is John and Silverman only in one scene of the movie? Oh my God So this is why, this is my real reason for being here today

[01:02:07] It's not that Paul Verhoeven's one of my favorite filmmakers And I wanted to re-examine his most unheralded You've just, you've been waiting You've had like an alert for when we're going to cover a Slotnik Yeah And I just, no, but there's something about this That I can't remember

[01:02:19] Because then he's just like science dork number three Like he's just the nerd who wears sweater vests with a tie Do you think Yeah, he has no role in this movie It's almost insulting It's unbelievable how many The whole, before I remembered that this movie becomes

[01:02:31] Like how does he even die? He just gets killed like everyone else He just gets like stabbed with a crowbar He gets stabbed through the chest Before I remembered that this movie just becomes like a slasher I was like, why are there so many people in this movie?

[01:02:42] There's a lot of people in it Like what is there? Because there's him, so now, okay So my Slotnik thing is planted I've led that out there Right So anyone who wants to get at Alex Ross Perry About Joey Slotnik and Craig Kilborn's relationship

[01:02:52] Just somewhere I'll look at your Reddit And I'll try to figure out if anyone else is like I watch Kilborn and I actually remember what you're talking about What's your home mailing address? Can I send you a letter? Yeah, yeah, and what's your annual salary?

[01:03:02] Do you want my theory? I got a theory And I don't remember this bit, right? I was not a Kilborn You were too young for, right? Oh yeah, you weren't a Kilborn Although I, you're not a Kilborn again No I would sneak, like stay awake

[01:03:13] And watch Conan on my little like rabbit ear TV I never dipped in the Kilborn But my bet is that those were like his drinking buddies That his like pussy posse, if I may At the time was like Silverman, Slotnik Like some weird group of like NBC

[01:03:30] Like Primetime, like Hamuked in between friends What a depressing, yeah And Mad About You, sitcom guys When they would like try and launch like Union Square Out of Friends Right, right Like that run of failed sitcoms Right, and it was like an inside joke Veronica's closet

[01:03:45] That he tried to make happen with the American public Worked for me Yeah, yeah And made me super aware of Hollow Man And made me, you know, 17 years later Be like there was something about Slotnik It's like a splinter in your mind You can't like let it go

[01:03:59] His works are even one person then it was worth it Slotnik's Wikipedia page is really depressing Is it? Oh god I mean it just has very little effort His profile picture is him shaking hands with Steve Wozniak Who he looks nothing like

[01:04:12] And he played in Pirates of Silicon Valley But they're just like, I feel like his page Like it doesn't have Look at this like, this sort of bizarre table It doesn't have like links to the movies It's just a list of movies

[01:04:22] Yeah, well then it becomes just like Cause it's some movies like Twister And Pirates of Silicon Valley Right, and then it's just TV shows It's like Alias, CSI, Boston League You know like just Twister by the way is another cool scientist movie That's true, that's true

[01:04:35] Yeah, yeah, yeah, these scientists They drive cars and stuff They're like kind of fun normal down-to-earth people Another Apollo 13 turned lead In a cool scientist movie cast member Very true Yeah, that's right Every Apollo, cause Gary Sinise got something too Out of this, right

[01:04:48] Like he had to have something Come on, help me out here Well, he was in reindeer games Not a cool scientist Maybe, yeah What's your my call it? Snake Eyes He hasn't really screamed scientist He screams more, you know Authority figure Yeah, he's your Fed

[01:05:02] Yeah, I mean, well Snake Eyes He's the villain's part So did the cool hacker Replace the cool scientists, right I guess so I feel like that becomes the next trooper He's like, I'm a cool tech guy And it's like the blade guy Because then it becomes your scientist

[01:05:15] Or the nerds again And then there's this guy Who's got kind of like frosted tips or something And he's got like a, you know A mug full of pistachio notes or something Wait, is it Greg Grumberg Who's always drinking a big gulp in this movie? Yes, yes, yes

[01:05:27] So that's like his, and he always has headphones around His headphones looking at porn He's looking at a perfect 10-magazine And like, has like a whole monologue He's fitting their muttering Like, oh I sucked the nipples off those tips That's what he says

[01:05:37] And you're like, who's, never once ever said that That feels like someone being like Your hoven movies are gross and lurid And people talk about sex So we're going to have this character Talk about nipples while he's looking at this perfect 10 At his job in a bunker

[01:05:49] Where there's only like six people who have the access code Uh, right Andrew W. Marlowe is the writer of this movie I'm sorry I just, I found confirmation on something I need to share Joey Slotnick in 2009 Yeah Did a stage production Oh no This is already bad

[01:06:07] I don't like this At the Williamstown Theatre Festival Oh that's nice, that's fun Okay Yeah Or no I'm sorry That was several years into making this happen It started at Chicago Okay Of Animal Crackers The Marks Brothers movie Which they tried to turn into a musical

[01:06:24] I think in the hopes of going to Broadway And Joey Slotnick played Groucho Marks He spent most of the last like seven years Trying to make this happen Turing to become the stage version Of Groucho Mark That sounds like his Kilmer Twain Oh yeah

[01:06:36] You're not gonna flip your phone back around Interesting Yeah there he is There he is with the glasses and the mustache He's trying to make Groucho happen Well, there's something about Slotnick There's definitely something about Slotnick It connects this movie to a certain time in my life

[01:06:50] Where I was very happy Big summer My friend Guy's Driver's License We saw a lot of movies Mission Impossible 2 had just come out Sure Other things that hopefully we'll be talking about eventually But I feel like the kind of crew of scientists

[01:07:03] In this movie is very humorously diverse In their like, each one has a thing In their types Can I say one funny thing also? Of course One thing about See anything else This is something that I was thinking about Constantly during this movie Is I am

[01:07:17] At one point I asked Jason Schwartzman Why have you never been in like a big Hollywood movie like this? Sure Not like this but like something You told me this I told you this No tell me, I want to know I said why have you never

[01:07:27] You've worked with Jason on multiple movies Not to name drop Name drop And cold names It's now playing in MetroGraph And on iTunes and whatever I said how come you've never been in like, you know That kind of a movie And he said because

[01:07:37] Every thing I ever get sent to be in that movie Is the guy who Who says But gentlemen What if we weaponize it? And I thought yeah that is the kind of guy You would get asked to play in that movie And this movie

[01:07:49] Doesn't really have that exact guy But I can easily picture someone being like You know who could be like Dorky scientist number three Jason Schwartzman would be so good for that Who gets impaled on Rebar Like 40 minutes to go You told me that story as like

[01:08:05] A like lesson Like not in like a teaching way But I was complaining to you about Not wanting to play parts like that And you were like That's what Jason's always talking about Where he doesn't have any interest in showing up

[01:08:14] To be in a big movie to say What if we weaponize it? Go to Vancouver for four months to say that one Right, right Like if I want to do it I want to have something to actually do Right so I feel like that's a good reason

[01:08:22] For him to have avoided This kind of being in the crew of science Yes Which is generally a good crew I mean they look good together Bacon also We didn't talk about his house With his thing on the ceiling Wait what thing on the ceiling?

[01:08:36] You should be working or whatever Oh yeah right It's similar to the Mulder pencils It's like a real hot trend at this time Of guys who sit at their desk And have crap on the ceiling above their desk They also have this video call Which is so advanced

[01:08:48] It makes no sense Yeah When he like calls them with the It's like hyperskype Yeah it looks good It works really well The point isn't like I guess in the world of having Invisible Serum Skype Had been taken care of

[01:09:00] I guess this is set in the near future So to start the plot As Ben was bugging me to do Hey Ben There's an hour in Yeah I think that's great But I do feel like In the hour there's not It's all on the topic of how

[01:09:11] The beginning of waiting for us To get into it The beginning of the movie Is he discovers invisibility Or whatever He like puts the right genes In the right place He's on his computer He's looking out his window He's peeping at Ronamitra And he's angry that she closed

[01:09:26] The blinds Yeah he doesn't like that Yeah sure Have autonomy He cracks the code You know what else he's doing? He's eating a Twinkie He's eating a Twinkie He's eating a Twinkie Is that his blender? 100% He does it like Jump food

[01:09:41] There's a box of Twinkies next to his desk And later not at home at the lab He has a whole case of Twinkies Right he should not be this He's very sort of fit He's a sinewy guy He always has been So Hollerman So they've invented

[01:09:58] They cracked the case What have they been doing before now Just not making things invisible Is that what's been happening down there? They've been making animals invisible The thing they haven't figured out They made like little animals invisible They got the gorilla Well no that's the first thing

[01:10:10] Like that's the first time they do it Incorrect Because they have the rat The gorilla is already invisible Right That's the thing they've been struggling You're right They've been making animals invisible But their goal is They want to weaponize it They want to give it to the military

[01:10:24] Yeah this is like a government contract It's like the re-begulator D-begulator Right but their waterloo is How do you get them back Because they can't leave people invisible forever They'll go crazy and grab boobs Anyone playing blank check bingo He just said waterloo Yeah thank you Patina

[01:10:39] Where's that a stone I have four phrases But yes He suddenly just kind of cracks it The movie doesn't really It doesn't care It's just you see the like Wire frame of molecules And he's like Oh but what if I put A freaking electron over here Right

[01:10:55] And then he calls up Kim Dickens Not Kim Dickens sorry Elizabeth Shoe Very excitedly Yeah He sees in the background That there's a guy in her bed Sure Who's that Who's that none of your business Pulls the cup over his head He's flirting with her But he's excited

[01:11:09] Because he just fucking figured it out We gotta get to the office Do you think you can get in touch With Josh Brolin Yeah I think I can reach him Ha ha ha And the video call She's sleeping with Josh Brolin Okay so there's a secret

[01:11:19] Who plays Dr. Matt Kensington Who is literally That name is straight out of like A porn parody Isn't it fascinating that like As is Sebastian Holloman Sebastian Kane Sebastian Holloman When I was watching the movie I just kept calling him Sebastian Holloman Mr. Holloman And then someone like

[01:11:34] Puts a space in between the two Anyway yeah Um It just feels you watch this movie And like the zone that Brolin was in And continue to be in for like Another six years after this Until 2007 When he has this crazy year Yeah

[01:11:47] And it's like he was just Gonna go from being this kind of Like fucking wet blanket guy In like mid budget You know Mid level studio blockbusters To them being like the boss in comedies And then the dad in movies Like he did not seem like someone

[01:12:01] Who was primed to suddenly become A like substantial American actor That didn't seem like a shame either It wasn't like Ah that guy could have been Yeah you're not mad That we're not getting to see him Josh Brolin's a pro You know He doesn't seem like he deserves

[01:12:15] A bigger shot than this He just shows up and he does his part And then in 2007 He suddenly becomes this like Very interesting actor Out of nowhere He blows off of the character actor list To me he was the Goonies guy right

[01:12:26] I mean there was nothing in between Thrashing That's what he was to me Right But then he does He's good in flirting with disaster As the super aggro potential brother Yes yes yes But then he does like this He's in mimic He does a fucking

[01:12:40] What's it called into the blue The Paul Walker just album movies That's 2005 That's much later Whoa that movie from 2005 So here we go Just change this out And I mean you know You know about his legal issues To be kind Which we probably shouldn't be Because it's from 2000

[01:12:57] Hollerman right 2005 Melinda Melinda There's nothing in between So he just stopped making things And in between This was it for him? Yeah In between those two is when He's, Diane Lane calls the cops on him And then it like drops the charges You know and like

[01:13:14] It just becomes this sort of thing That was like you know In the papers And they're still together now right No they did get divorced They got back together for a while after Much much later They got divorced in like 2013 or something And the other thing with her

[01:13:26] Was Diane Lane was going through this Real like upswing And it became like Oh that's where the Diane Lane's married To the guy from Goonies Like Yeah right He just became a professional Plus one Cause she was like getting nominated For Unfaithful and stuff

[01:13:38] And he was just like Sitting next to her at the Oscars Every year And like he also like As of this Like he wouldn't have been on talk shows He wasn't promotable Zero percent He's like one notch above your gray Grumbert Here's where you would

[01:13:49] Is it Grunberg or Gundberg Grunberg It's Grunberg Matt Wexley himself That's right I mean Grunberg was just J.J. Abrams this guy right Yes This was Josh Barolin's role In Hollywood at this point in time Yeah Was if You got Robert Downey Jr And Robert Downey Jr's quote

[01:14:07] Was a little bit lower than Kevin Bacon You could get a bigger star For the Josh Barolin role But if you spent the extra million Or two On Bacon It's like Barolin we can get for like 250,000 He's a pro He'll show up He'll do the job

[01:14:21] You know what I'm saying? Like he was that guy where It's like we can slot him in If we got a bigger star for another role Just get Barolin to fill out the cast So Barolin Okay fine So they're sleeping again They're the three scientists

[01:14:31] We're the three scientists We're the two friends They're the three scientists Yeah And we've got to mention Mary Randall who plays Another lab tech That's the entire crew Correct And then William Devane plays Like a congressman or whatever And then I'll say Like a general

[01:14:46] Whatever the fuck he is He's at the penagon You're right This is one of the only movies That's shot in front of the penagon For some reason Like the penagon allowed Big showgirls fans For just like one steady camp Shot as they leave And give Bacon the business

[01:14:57] For lying to the government And he's like I can do what I want Bacon does some serious Movie star strutting And that's strutting But you know what's also Interesting is that he's Wearing the Regis Philbin Who wants to be a millionaire Collection In that scene

[01:15:09] It's like the shiniest Purple shirt And exactly the same color tie I've ever seen outside of Regis Correct It's unbelievable And not only is he dressed that way In the penagon Then the next scene He has his jacket off And he's still wearing the purple shirt And tie

[01:15:23] Yes, it's insane So he cracks the code Shoe comes over There's a Shoe comes over You mean from the funny Is the bird The movie puts on a shoe Yeah Elizabeth's shoe No but there's this thing Where you see Josh Brolin in the trenches With the animals

[01:15:41] Who Kim Dickens is very protective of Yeah He's got his weird Heat vision goggles Because that's the only way They can see the invisible creatures Yeah, those goggles are Those are some 2,000 tech Right there They're very virulent It's so good Those are also just like Post-terrastic part

[01:15:55] Like it's still the same thing It's the same aesthetic background Do you like Wolfen, Ben? I've never seen Wolfen Never seen Wolfen? You like Wolfen? No, no It's a Wolfen fan I've heard of Wolfen It's a werewolf movie With Albert Finney And Gregory Hines What?

[01:16:09] It's like the first Steadycam movie That Steadycam was invented for It's like 83 81 81 And all the wolf POV stuff Is Night Vision Infrared Steadycam That's hell It's just this load of the ground Endless, and at the time though Steadycam, you have no idea How they're doing this shot Yeah

[01:16:27] Even still the movie is incredible But all this stuff looks like Wolfen when they're looking at the animals I do love Albert Finney and then You can't understand a word he's saying He seems so drunk That sounds great I love it when Albert Finney Oh my God

[01:16:37] Like when he shows up And he clearly is just drunk And they bow fingered him Anyway It's a very good movie Pre-Dark Universe of the 90s Sure So I was shocked to realize This movie is two hours long Because it barely has a plot

[01:16:51] But I think it's because every Injection scene Is like incredibly long It's a real showcase And in a way that I like Right, because it's fun With the first the gorilla Where you see the gorilla's body Like slowly rebuild And let's say there's a little tip

[01:17:06] The cap when Barola's trying to feed the gorilla That it attacks him And then they have this little Like dick measuring contest They're trying to capture And sedate the gorilla first But it kind of gets at this thing That perhaps there are the unexpected side Effects of rage

[01:17:19] Aggression Aggression Mixing monstrous All the other animals in the movie Were real animals And the gorilla was a person in the gorilla suit Very clearly So yes It's not a realistic one So according to the IMDb trivia What they had to do for the gorilla

[01:17:32] In order to get it Because they used real heat vision cameras They got some camera Where they filmed it That's not like a process thing So for the gorilla shots Right up until they called action They had like 20 PAs with Hair dryers

[01:17:47] Who were just heating up the gorilla suit So that it would show up on the camera Do you think like Just having fun looking at some Sochi-like clothes Yes or no of the Invisibility sequences Is this when we have good special effects Or bad special effects

[01:18:00] Does yes or no I think yes I think it has good special effects I think the only thing this movie You can see this seems more than I remember But I don't really care I think the only thing that feels Notably creepy to me

[01:18:11] Is the visible man stuff When it's him with the muscles Sure That looks pretty flubbery I just dig it The rest of it I think is really good This is such an era of some of the worst CG This is like the Scorpion King Shot that everyone always

[01:18:23] Yes And I just can't believe how Not terrible this looks Considering it's the same time As most of the worst computer effects of And the other thing was He talked about how He's a very extensive storyboarder You know there's a real intentionality In designing

[01:18:36] Yeah he said this entire movie with Storyboarder Like to the teeth Verhoeven is a guy who plans everything Out meticulously in advance And understands the limitations of the technology And how to work around them But also how to push them And he said that he Worked really hard

[01:18:48] To have as many camera movements As he could In the special effects Big showcase scenes Because he wanted to integrate it more That the mind processes it As being real If in a shot with a CGI skeleton man You also have You know a track and move

[01:19:05] Or whatever it is Which I think is really smart But also makes his job A lot more complicated But he committed to that And said like I had to know every shot in advance Because if I changed a shot on the day It would add $300,000

[01:19:16] So we shot everything Exactly the way a storyboarder did But I think especially when you look at that Like the effects are really fucking good And certainly like It's simple But when he has the rubber mask And you can see through the back of it

[01:19:26] It's the fucking best thing ever It's also like All the effects make sense They're not pointless But you're right All those sequences are long And then baking But then he's just invisible He's then baking just invisible Well this is the thing So yeah how much baking

[01:19:38] I think we got like 15, 20 minutes I think like 30 Cause you have the gorilla You have him testifying Maybe 30 You have a lot of him flirting With everyone in the office being gross Yeah he's gross to everyone He has a fucking slot neck I'd be into that

[01:19:52] Everyone knows he's a bad guy Everyone knows he's a bad guy Everyone knows he's a bad guy Everyone's like Whatever with him No he's an asshole Everyone knows that he's just kind of an eccentric jackass He has that line about like A toxic person

[01:20:04] Yeah being with him is a lot less interesting Than you think it is Right And then he turns invisible Because he decides Fuck them we're just going to do this on me He wants to hold it back from the military

[01:20:14] Because he's worried they'll take it away from him So he goes We need to get this 100% cracked by ourselves Before we hand it over And then they'll shut it all down Not that they'll be like Cause it is theirs But he says that

[01:20:23] You know what do they do with us Once they have it Right So let's make me the guinea pig Which everyone is skittish about This is the best sequence of the movie probably Him turning invisible It's just phenomenal Yeah It held up for me Yeah

[01:20:36] And I feel like what's the name of that Like tiny horizontal special effects magazine That they still publish Oh yes Yes I feel like this was on the cover of The audience But it was still from this exact sequence This movie lost best visual effects to Gladiator

[01:20:48] And I remember at the time The pitch on Gladiator was like You won't believe it Like they made ancient Rome Like look real again And now you watch Gladiator And the visual effects in that are a little rough Well you know the other thing with Gladiator

[01:20:59] I think got it The win What? Was the Oliver Reed thing Which is actually kind of impressive Impressive But at the time it was so impressive As impressive as making bacon invisible I don't think so I mean this should have won But I did forget because like

[01:21:11] I was reading an interview recently Yeah With Ridley Scott Now long ago About all the money in the world Where he was like This is fucking Just you know Disney shit I don't give a shit Christopher Plummer He's here, he's alive Oliver Stote He died

[01:21:25] Like three days in or whatever You know like I had to build An entire performance out of nothing And Christopher Plummer This is easy Imagine what Ridley could have done With an invisible man movie Oh he'd have fun Wonder if he's available for Dark Universe Yeah

[01:21:40] He's just slotted in Give him the whole Dark Universe He's only booked five movies to direct next year So we could probably slot one of them in there By the time we're recording this Christopher Plummer has probably won The Oscar, right? Yeah That golden globe nomination

[01:21:53] Where you just know that there was They didn't screen the movie They just threw a party for the Hollywood farm press Ridley Scott comes out And he's like You won't believe it Christopher Plummer J. Paul Getty It's great Anyway, nice to see all of you And they're like

[01:22:07] Oh yes we give him a vote Director Actress Supporting actor God Then he got a director nomination And not a picture nomination Is so funny to me What, ten nominations? I know Insane Are you excited for all the money in the world, Alex? No I'm not

[01:22:21] I'll watch if I get a script By the time this comes out I will have not seen it Unless I get sent to my house I'm so pumped to see it I mean I guess I'm mildly curious I'm like not curious And I love Ridley Scott

[01:22:31] Except for the fucking Plummer I mean I like a kidnapping movie I like a good kidnapping movie Me too The first trailer was like A lot tonier And then the re-edited Christopher Plummer trailer Now has an instrumental version Of Kanye West power

[01:22:42] And makes it look like a CIA thriller Yeah, yeah I'll see it Wait, it's Michelle Williams And Mark Wahlberg And Mark Wahlberg I'll see it, I like that Yeah, exactly Yeah, you know, whatever I'm sure it's fine I'm sure it's not as impressive As making that rubber mask

[01:22:57] It's one best picture at this point But I do think Holloman has Holloman won best picture in 2018 Holloman should have won best visual effects 100% So this sequence alone But also I think What I really love are all the like Silhouetted bacon stuff later

[01:23:11] Like the pool and the nests It just seems like I feel like by this point The movie now we're like Halfway through the movie Practically He's invisible And he like has a sandwich And then he decides to grab Kim Dickens And then they're basically

[01:23:24] Right, it's like really immediate Then right away they're like Good now it's been three days Let's reverse him and it doesn't work But I feel like This gets to the point of like We love Invisible Man Like this is a cool idea Yeah There's no story in that

[01:23:34] Because it's like What do you This movie to me was like There's nothing you can do with that He's invisible Yes, this movie is just Interested in the power trip element What's your picture You need another Invisible Man Invisible Man Sure Well, that was That's the problem

[01:23:50] You need two invisible people There's Hollow Man 2 The direct to video sequel Which is briefly titled Hollow Man Starting Peter Fatshinelli And Christian Slater Yes I just feel like At this point in the movie Like he's invisible And he's freaking out It's obviously affecting his brain

[01:24:06] But then like this Just points out that There's really nothing you can do With an invisible man Right Unless he joins The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen I was like, T.C. with my humor God But he's like He's like a hawk Like he works well as like

[01:24:18] Part of a team But he has no actual journey Of his own That's like going to sustain this Which is why it just becomes Like the killer's inside the house That's what's weird about this movie And why it sort of makes sense That Elizabeth Shue is first bill

[01:24:29] Aside from the fact that she Also signed on first And I think there's a thing where She might have gotten paid more She might have gotten paid more And if you sign onto a movie first Sometimes you work that into your contract

[01:24:38] Or even if they get a bigger star They're kind of fucked Because we already promised someone First billing You know But I think This movie only kind of Makes her the protagonist halfway through The first half of the movie They make Kevin Bacon The really unlikable protagonist

[01:24:52] You know The anti-hero And then there's a point where it's like Well now he just has to become the villain Because we can't, you know Follow this guy in his journey more There's nowhere else to go He's just become a monster He sneaks out and like

[01:25:03] Immediately rapes his neighbor He's a monster right away Second thought is Yeah, you're right that of course At first he is confronted with the news We can't turn you visible So I guess that's eating away at him Then they put the latex mask on him

[01:25:16] His eyelids are transparent The light hurts him so much I say that a couple times You know what's another thing Similar to how Grunberg Is holding up the perfect 10 magazine And saying what he wants to do to the woman Is the part early when Sebastian's

[01:25:27] Looking out the window at his neighbor Who takes off her clothes And she closes her blinds And he goes, damn it Like he's really He's a jerk He's on the line that he wants to see that So you know You know He's getting it You know right away

[01:25:38] He's from the get go which I like And this movie is I mean it's that The line where it's like What you would do if you didn't have to look at yourself In the mirror, you know I feel like that for him

[01:25:47] He splashes his face in the mirror Which is very interesting I've written down That's in the trailer It's at 56 minutes Yeah Which is like the first time where he says Like what am I doing Right It's like suddenly this guy realizes He's up to no good

[01:25:58] Cause that's after he attacks Runamitra right Yeah When he splashes I also wrote down What would happen if he ate A not invisible twinkie Well Why don't they ever do that Like he never eats when he's invisible Cause it would be so much fun To watch the

[01:26:11] The digestion Silly effect Exactly Like do we see him like pee Like no He throws up He does throw up And the door opens invisible Right You see it make the imprint in the toilet water But there's nothing actually coming out You see like the ripples Interesting

[01:26:27] You know why he's perfect casting for this movie Aside from everything else We've already said Yeah He is such a specific looking guy Yes That A even when you only see his body He's got such a specific body Right And he's shown it off so much in movies

[01:26:39] That he like Recognize it But B his face is so fucking unique That even if it's just like Water being splashed on the side You're like That's Kevin Bacon's nose And he has a great voice Yes, this C is a really distinct voice Nothing sounds like Kevin Bacon

[01:26:52] But if you have the character Just in silhouette Affected by smoke or whatever It doesn't look like Just some generic CGI model It always looks like Kevin Bacon It seems like It's recognizable like Kevin Bacon The point of the second half Of this movie is how many things

[01:27:04] Can you put an invisible man In that you can sort of see Right A pool A smoky corridor A fire extinguisher A miss smoke from a It's just how many things Can you sort of see something through So when they were filming this movie They thought originally

[01:27:17] That he wasn't going to have to be on set They would just have like A teacup on a string He'd be like Right And then Verhoeven did a lot of test footage And he realized that A the performances were kind of Unmored when there wasn't A person there

[01:27:29] In the room Right So they would shoot everything Two times once with him In there once with him Without For performance But also Any time he's interacting With the elements That they needed him there In real time on the set

[01:27:41] So they would have to paint his entire body One color Yes Green, blue or black Right Including contact lenses That were fully that color Face paint All of that He also says that the latex mask Smelled like rotten eggs And he had to wear it a lot

[01:27:56] And it has no nose holes Did that bother you guys? I'm sure it bothers me And later when he goes out He cuts nose holes in it They appear at like The hour forty Which is probably a demand for him Because they mostly shot this movie Chronologically

[01:28:07] They shot this movie in sequence But there's so much of it With no nose holes He probably at certain points Like I'm quitting unless you cut Those fucking nose holes in But each of the colors They painted and corresponded To a different element

[01:28:17] Where they had to come up with a code Where it's like If he's interacting with liquids He's black for the day If he's interacting with gases He's, you know Maybe the nose holes weren't there Because you couldn't put The color inside his nostrils

[01:28:29] They do show up as you say Like in like Maybe they just put A little dab of blue on that Yeah He looks like Michael Meyerzy Yes Like when he's got I just think that's such a good look That latex man It is the perfect modern version

[01:28:42] Of the bandages and the glasses Yes, exactly And I love how goopy it is In the back Anytime you're seeing him from behind It's really imperfect Yeah, it's so gross And he does have such a weird face He's got that Kevin Bacon nose So it is distinctive

[01:28:55] It doesn't just look like A generic dude No, it looks like Kevin Bacon's face Pouring that stuff on it That's so cool looking Pour the rubber on it All that stuff is great And even just like It's simple effects But just When they're testing him after

[01:29:08] The failed conversion back into the The land of being a solid man Rather than a hollow man And it's all the little What do you call them? Yeah, like the little heart rate monitor The heart rate monitor Is things on him When you see them all

[01:29:21] Snapping off as he walks away Like that shit is all Just really fucking effective for me It's fun I wrote down around this time When Greg Rumber is looking at the magazine He started to remind me Of Ken Merino and what hot American summer Just like some doofus

[01:29:33] Who's talking about babes Right, who's never seen a woman Nation in his life And the secret subplot of this movie Is that he's a virgin Yes, and then he's talking to Kevin Bacon I wrote down that he says You should be out there Messing with people

[01:29:44] Yeah, that's his first He says this And this is after Kevin Bacon Has attacked Ronamitra Which, who to Just to get down the record I don't know if she has a line In the movie apart from like Hello and like Is not a character

[01:29:55] And we do not revisit her After he attacks It was a deleted scene Oh, is there? There's an extended Of like the actual After effect of a woman Being sexually violated By an invisible person So it's just like It's like a quick shot of her

[01:30:08] Like curled up in the fetal position Crying on the bed Which is kind of your Hoveney In a way He said Like deeply amoral and strange Yes They test screened it And people like ripped their chairs Out of their favor Like no one wanted to see that

[01:30:20] Right, which I mean Sure, but also You did put that in 45 minutes into the movie Bolly Yeah And again, I mean Like I was gonna say This movie is written by Andrew W. Marlow Who just seems like to me Like Andrew W. M You know

[01:30:33] Just the epitome of like A bro-y douchey guy in the room Right Cause his credits are Air Force One What if, alright The president Yeah And then End of Days Which is a terrible movie And then Hollow Man And then he created Castle Right

[01:30:48] This guy has more money Than you'll ever see in your life He literally just does things That I couldn't even imagine doing With his incredible amounts Of money Such as writing a holler But Gary Scott Thompson Was the what if guy on this Right, he was the

[01:31:01] Original idea And then Marlow sort of Correct They both have a story credit Gary Scott Thompson, I mean He had the Fast and Furious Yeah This is basically his earliest Like pitch that hits Apart from K911 Uh-huh Which I believe The Believer Is a sequel to K9 Right

[01:31:20] But remember That there's K9 Yes That came out in 1989 Yeah Then in 1999 Finally Right The public's demand for a sequel Was satisfied with K911 Which is then followed by K9 Colin T The Widowmaker Not K9112 That's just a zip code That's not a movie To be clear

[01:31:47] Jim Belushi is in all three films Like it's not Yeah, they started to have Three-picture deal from the get go This movie has like real Hollywood Like Workhorse Rider pedigree Yes That's what I'm saying Like I really don't think That Verhoeven was the one

[01:32:00] The invisible man must be a rapist Like it's like This was a pitch That was made I think he You know, for a hundred million dollars He turned all that out Yeah, some ideas probably I'm sure he did Do you feel like, yeah There was like that

[01:32:12] He was kind of Like those Nordics in Hollywood There was a lot of them And they all kind of had their own Excesses That they were fascinated with Yeah Who else are you thinking of? Well, like Yann de Bon And Renny Harlan Right

[01:32:24] There's gotta be at least one or two others But like a lot of these Danes and Nordes And Swedes coming to Hollywood And kind of making these like Excessively well crafted Wolfgang Peterson Yeah Obviously not Nordic But European Same, same But he like

[01:32:37] I mean, I don't think Verhoeven's Capable of making a film As uninteresting as The least interesting movies That those guys made Right He just has too much going on But he also sort of at this point Said, oh, I think I'm starting To tip into that territory

[01:32:51] I need to get the fuck away from here Yeah, he ran He runs away Whereas Renny Harlan's like I can make the extra system Prequel, you know Right There's like a weird level Of self-awareness for Verhoeven Considering that he's also like A weird like lunatic Who's like, what?

[01:33:08] What am I doing? Why is it weird? You know And he's a Jesus scholar In the seminarian Right It's right So there is some sort of Moment of self-awareness Yeah, and how much Jesus stuff In this one That's the thing Like this movie just has no allegory

[01:33:21] Like Robocop allegory Total recall Like a very metaphysical look At like humanity Yeah Showgirls You know Of course It's about so much This movie does not amount to anything It's like Except if you were an abyssal man You would be awful Isn't it sort of like power corrupts?

[01:33:36] Right It has one idea But I also think it's not presenting That movie as a thesis Right It's one of the ideas And once again Like, you know I think endings of movies are very important Because the ending is Like this is what it was about

[01:33:51] Not just what note you end on But like putting a frame around a thing And the fact that this movie just stops No, it's just they kill him in the lab They blow up the lab Right It's like, oh, this movie has nothing to say

[01:34:00] They don't even blow up the lab in a fun way Elevator shaft Yeah Go to hell It's weird Like to even like jump from the point where He's like not going to be turned visible again To the end of the movie It's like I don't remember

[01:34:13] The only thing I remember there Is the blood all over the floor And the amount of blood in the Kim Dixon So much blood Which is cool And the Willem de Veyne pool Like each kill is kind of neat Yeah, that's the thing

[01:34:22] So yeah, let's just go through the kills But they're also stacked up Like it's the moment where you realize Oh, that's why there are that many people in the lab This is going to come a slasher foam Or they're knocking them off one by one

[01:34:30] It's like four of them die within eight minutes Of each other Right, so here's how it goes A more conventional movie would have had him Turn bad 15 minutes in and made the whole movie Because I want to get Alex out of here In some semblance of a normal

[01:34:40] I know, I know Don't worry about me I know, I know I'm here to talk Holliman We've barely scratched the surface Of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen yet And Van Helsing We do have to talk Alice G Which the Captain Nemo's submarine sequence And that is

[01:34:54] Oh, it's the Nautilus Yeah, there you go The Nautilus man Tom Sawyer is on the Nautilus What kind of world is this? Tom Sawyer We need an American Dorian Gray Like the characters they added into the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Like what guy was like

[01:35:06] I got it, I got it Guys, Dorian Gray Dorian Gray is not in the comic? No, and they were clearly like Are you sure? I'm almost certain here I'm going to look it up I think that's great I mean Tom Sawyer definitely was added

[01:35:16] Tom Sawyer was the obvious Right, because it's Nemo, Meena, Harker, Quirer Quarterman, Invisible Man and Hyde Oh, that's the comic The comic is those Meena, Harker, Quirterman, Nemo The original comic at least The Invisible Man And that's it Can I stop Dorian Gray was in the comic?

[01:35:32] No, they add him Because I think they were just like Scanning through public domain And they were like What's a name, right? Like, because like Dorian Gray What's he supposed to do Like kill them with like a bunmo Or what are they like Yeah He's ageless, sure Right

[01:35:46] I mean like, you know It's not really like a power But they try to make it that he's like Got Wolverine healing powers I think what they try to do in the movie is Oh, because he doesn't age That also means that any damage Is immediately healed

[01:35:58] And then Jekyll and Hyde Also, are they in They're not in the comic either Really? No I think Hyde's in the comic That has to be in the comic You're right, they are Sorry, take them back Isn't it weird that a couple years later

[01:36:10] There was another Invisible Man on screens Yeah And it's like wasn't a bomb Oh, you mean in LXG? Oh yeah, of course What else would I be talking about? Played by Jason Fleming No, he's Hyde Oh right You're not gonna have the name

[01:36:23] No, I am gonna have it Ready? Ready? Fuck you, Tony Karan Tony Karan Well done Thank you Tell me anything about him Griffin knows his LXG I don't remember anything I remember he's great in that movie Is he better than Kevin Bacon? No

[01:36:36] And is he better than Johnny Depp will be In Dark Universe in this movie? That is That movie is never getting me Now now You don't know by the time This podcast comes out There could have been a huge Johnny Depp Invisible Man Announcement

[01:36:48] Look, the Dark Universe is going really well Despite some setbacks Obviously Charles Manson Was supposed to play the Wolfman Charles Manson They're getting top stars That cliquill article Perfect Did I show you the one where it's like Uh oh, is Louis CK's movie about Matt Lauer

[01:37:03] In Trouble or whatever It's Harvey Weinstein's Matt Lauer Biopic starring Louis CK Like this is To borrow a frequent joke of yours This is being recorded in September The Dark Universe is doing great Right And by the time this airs The Dark Universe will be doing better

[01:37:16] And Trump's been elected double president Oh god And greatest showman won best picture Great showman won best picture Trump's been elected greatest showman You're going to read the order of the kills I will I'm going to do that in one second But LXG, I just want to say

[01:37:29] That's Connery's last movie, right? Oh yeah Except for the animated movie Billy Bill or whatever it is Wild Billy And that was a movie where literally Like Connery on set was like You're a hock, Stephen Norrington I'm going to doosh my shelf Right?

[01:37:42] He like directed the movie himself Well, the other thing was That Connery had turned down Like five movies that became huge Because he was like I don't get this shit Right So he turned down Morpheus in The Matrix Right He turned down fucking Gandalf Right

[01:37:55] But then he was taking the Avengers And entrapment Like he was And finding Forrester Like he took all the wrong roles Right But he was like I guess she's sci-fi films I don't get them But I should do one So he did LXG because he was like

[01:38:06] Well the last three times I passed Eyes open boy Right And another big one I'm forgetting That he turned down So he did that And after that He was like Fuck it Like I don't get anything He was a good quarter-main I remember seeing If he says Okay

[01:38:21] Two things in the trailer The game is on And that was not The game is on Yeah That was schnaughty Yeah, me and my friends used to say That was not each other All the time The game is on I would say all the time still

[01:38:32] Every day we would say That was not each other That was schnaughty Eyes open boy LXG opening day My friends wanted to go see Parts of the Caribbean At the moment it was a question Like which one's going to do well Because they both looked a little dodgy

[01:38:43] They both came from like Weird backgrounds And we got sold out of pirates So went to see LXG Which I was like pumping my fists about And the audience was so Like they were so clearly in the mood To see Parts of the Caribbean

[01:38:57] And had to settle for this That they just like transferred Their enthusiasm over to it And Connery's entrance in LXG Got an applause break from the audience Isn't it weird that like There was that time As I already You know LXG and Van Helsing

[01:39:10] This other things where it was just like This is what people wanted And that kind of became Underworld Which there's inexplicably Like a million of Yeah, there's like a whole franchise But then that becomes a very small Like budget conscious franchise But regardless like the appetite

[01:39:22] For this sort of like Revisionist things Of 100 year old Yes HG Wells characters Yeah Time machine that came out Like a year after this If LXG hadn't been made Could you imagine the fucking Getting more for it now Oh my god People would be going crazy

[01:39:38] That is totally true Yeah Yeah like she could also be in the dark universe 100% They could Most of them are in the dark universe I think they already threatened to redo it But doesn't Moore have some kind of power Is a TV show Threat is a TV show

[01:39:49] Oh it says a TV show That's actually I believe you're right I think that might actually even be in the works Yeah Like that's probably in production right now Like Jason Patrick or something Yes Moore doesn't have veto power Maybe not Okay So the kills are Uh huh

[01:40:02] He sees He discovers Shoe and Brolin Going in Right Boy he's furious That guy There's also that nightmare sequence She has where he's undressing her And then it's just a nightmare sequence That feels like a studio note to get Elizabeth Shoe's clothes Almost all the way off

[01:40:16] Right yeah exactly But there's that moment before that Where he puts her up against the wall In the lab Yeah And tries to seduce her Don't you want to do one last test Before you turn me visible Right That's even before She has a good line

[01:40:28] Wait what she has a good come back to that Something like you were never really there Yes that's it And you're like Yeah Right And he kills Devane first There's also the ripping off of the Latex mask Which is sort of like Yeah

[01:40:41] You know he's going breaking bad Right But he kills Devane in the pool right Well because he sees that Shoe and Brolin I just said that Right yes Goddamn sleepy boy No not that he's seen them in bed But that he sees that they go and speak to

[01:40:53] Devane Yeah they're going around Right he knows Thank you I had a new point to make I'm wide awake Okay okay Right chill Alright Ben is currently splitting us apart I was about to punch David in the face Jeez Uh things getting heated

[01:41:06] They go to Devane and go look We lied about that Yeah right they spill the beans And Devane is like Geez this is bad His wife comes down He's like what's that And he's like You're gonna have to make a phone call Worth getting me out of bed

[01:41:16] He's like we're waking up two generals for Have you ever seen a Paul Verhoeven movie It feels like something right out of that I'll tell you more later honey But Bacon's been watching the whole conversation These fucking turn coats He's furious It's a thing you never know

[01:41:29] Invisible man's around I know Unless you have The cool red glasses That is the big question this movie asks Is he around Yeah Big hero alone Yeah Yeah No Think again Nope Drowns him in the pool which is really I love I think it's such a good Yeah

[01:41:47] Nightmarish and cool C.J.C.G.I Then he goes back to the lab First Does he first kill Grumburg Or does he kill Janice He kills Janice first Yeah that's a bad look for this movie Yep That was a different time That was a studio note too

[01:42:02] They were like You know who should die first But now it's like this movie Where they would actively enforce it This movie has like 40 minutes left And it's like Okay they're all locked in this metal Donut underground He's got a sphere

[01:42:13] He's changed all the code so no one can leave He wants to kill us Yeah he changes the code so Right He'll be able to get away with it If there's no evidence of the fact that he ever existed That this experiment was ever done

[01:42:22] So he's gonna try to kill us off one by one She's like running behind the group She's like the slow poke And he kills her And they don't realize that she's not with them Yeah he like drags her away She gets a very eagerness death

[01:42:31] She goes to the bathroom a couple times in this movie We like see her taking off her pants Where she's wandering if he's there or not But it's like a bathroom It's like a massive room with a toilet in the middle of it And no door

[01:42:42] Yeah it's the room the size of like my apartment She's not in a bathroom stall It's like a toilet that's like Yeah just in the middle of a game It's like they took the set for the hallway After they were done shooting the hallway stuff

[01:42:52] And just put a toilet in it And now we say bathroom So then he's sort of like He does like a Spider-Man trick on top Of some pipes Lifts Grunk Grunberg off into the air Which is really creepy The Grunbergs folds of fat His pudgy face all squeezed

[01:43:08] This is in the middle of his Felicity run And Brolin's like shooting at it And doesn't and he realizes he's up there And he throws him onto the rebar And like the R-Roy That's gross Yeah that's a good little overhoofing Total re-hoofing Yeah exactly we were just like

[01:43:22] Whoa oh oh yeah And the mushy face feels like a prosthetic I wasn't freeze framing yet But it had a very unique look As opposed to the CGI fingerprints And other moments And then he tries to kill Brolin and fails So then he goes off to Dickens

[01:43:38] And that's the blood on the ground scene She spills it to see how to see his footprints To see his footprints But she doesn't weird Like he just comes up behind her Yeah It's like a bad idea Yeah But it looks cool Yeah it looks great

[01:43:51] That's a great way to describe this movie It's a bad idea but it looks cool Yeah Where she's just like I'm gonna go get some extra blood I guess because Grumburg is bleeding out I mean Grumburg is like so dead I don't know why they even bother

[01:44:03] And she gets six blood packets And they say that to her Like but she's like the den mother She's the one who cares after the animals She's the vet too So she's humane So Shoe and Brolin are like He's not gonna make it it's bad

[01:44:14] And she's like no no it's fine Let me get some blood Yeah let me go get six blood packs Spill five Right I'll have one left And then how does he kill her? She's the one Oh no no Grumburg he snaps through the thing He kind of uh

[01:44:28] What does he do? Oh first he shoots the dart into her Yeah He sedates her She's on the ground He starts groping her And then he snaps her neck Yeah he snaps her neck Right That's very brutal But it's covered in the blood There's that whole weird

[01:44:41] This is the point where his strength And his power and his inability to be killed Just becomes insane It's true he's like shot and lit up I mean it's Michael Myers Eska He's shot and lit on fire And like thrown down an elevator shell And then electrocuted

[01:44:53] And he's just still coming Yes It makes no sense Right because in somewhere in here is when he locks Elizabeth's shoe In the meat locker Or whatever it is And she asks to like MacGyver her way out of there somehow

[01:45:04] And let's just say because I don't think we've talked about it enough Anytime any sort of substance is thrown on him Anytime he's put into any water Any gas anything like that Yeah you see his silhouettes And you see his flapping dong

[01:45:17] Well sometimes they kind of deploy the dong And they're in for a bit And the infrared every time Every time Yes And some other times too But there's also this sort of massive like veins There's lots of info When he Visual info Sure

[01:45:33] When he's in his sort of partly visible state With the muscles and everything You clearly see the muscles of a dick and balls Which I like Fair enough You know Verhoeven at that point was just like Didn't even have to argue on that I watched for this

[01:45:44] Yeah yeah where it's like right In his muscle phase you see the muscles of the penis And the testicles Yes Don't forget the testicles I don't know how many muscles they have But yeah Consider the testicles But then right as it bleeds away His dick does go away

[01:45:57] And then he's just a skeleton Which is fun That's sort of like the most gentle version of it Yeah He then he kills Slotnik with a crowbar Which is sort of half-assed But then he doesn't kill anyone Yeah well

[01:46:08] And then Shoe and Brolin get away in the elevator Brolin should die Stabs Brolin Brolin's bleeding out And this is the second movie Within close range in which Brolin is trapped underground For a long period of time With a woman and then survives

[01:46:22] That was his role at this time That was his valley work I really just think Brolin should die That's my main pitch on the end of this movie That I really would change What do you think out? I didn't really By that point I was pretty checked out

[01:46:34] Yeah It wasn't even It gets boring By that point I wasn't like You know what would fix this movie I was just thinking like This is a fascinating monster character It's a fascinating scientific parable And the last 40 minutes of this movie is neither

[01:46:48] You wish that he had gotten New Meyer And to do a pass on that script You know Something that's like Even some more fun techie stuff Like do some weird lab shit Yeah Something where they leave the lab Or something I can't even imagine

[01:47:01] That's the thing is like I don't know what a good Hollowman movie is Like Hollowman You kind of want him to escape To Hollowman Well no Shoe gets hollowed Because I think I don't like any of the sexual violence stuff I think the fix of this

[01:47:14] Hard to watch and it's completely disposable In this movie And I don't like it I don't know how you get there But to me it's like Make a heist movie Run the jewels Run the jewels I think like Come on that would be cool Jewelty

[01:47:27] Yes I'm with you I think the sexual violence of this movie Is an idea where Verhoeven Had that idea Or whoever had that idea That's in the movie And then they're just so like We did that Right? Like we don't have to do anything more About this right?

[01:47:38] This whole last chunk of the movie Aside from really good visual effects And then the second chunk of the movie Is right And then he kills people With superhuman strength It just feels like going through the motions Like how do you get into the pipes

[01:47:46] And then get grumber Lifting strength Right And you also Get to the point where When she's sort of Blame throwered him You realize like Okay so he's completely burned Over the entirety of his body Right yeah And yet he's still able to run this fast

[01:48:03] And there's like stuff Melting onto him Right Yes Right But then it's all gone Yeah I also love strange I love how the electrocution like Restores him to like muscles Yes For some reason Makes zero sense But it looks cool It does make some sense

[01:48:21] Because it's like Street Fighter 2 logic Where like the electricity makes your bones Visible right Like because you're like It's like a cartoon character Yeah right Sticking their finger in electric socket You're talking Barak Yeah I'm talking Barak Blanca Obama Blanca Yes I'm talking Blanca Who's that? Your guy

[01:48:36] I don't know I've been playing The last Street Fighter 2 On my house On your iPad? On my SNES classic Oh I have one of those too Yeah Oh I've been playing a lot of Street Fighter 2 It's fucking impossible Yeah I had to go back reset the game

[01:48:50] And set the difficulty level lower Well you know one thing is I was playing it for three days Without beating a level Well Who were you being? Who are you guys? I kept changing What's the, I was Vega Vega's cool Yeah My best one

[01:49:05] Great opportunity to say that Those were my guys I was Vega sometimes What's the sumo wrestler? He's actually really easy to win with Because if you just lock into the 100 hand slap thing Like you can just destroy everybody I remember that time Chunlin was always quiet

[01:49:20] I remember that time that M. Bison came up To me and said he was just going to do a jazz fight Griffin has been trying to say this for five minutes He keeps me Perfect appointment But yes because I had just been playing Street Fighter

[01:49:33] Probably the day I watched this I thought of that during that electric use Benny liked it Did you know that M. Bison is called Vega in the Japanese game And Balrog is Sega is called Balrog or whatever Maybe it's an M because M. Bison's

[01:49:46] Supposed to be Balrog the boxer They were worried that Mike Tyson would sue them So they like switched all the names around Yes, I did know that Xangief is my guy Xangief is hard to play with He's so slow He like lumbers I like the wrestling stuff

[01:50:00] I like the grabs Yeah, yeah, yeah You get up close and personal I like Chunlin because she can like jump all around Really, really fast Yeah, I don't play with her She's good She's weak but she's like really fast

[01:50:10] This is a great way to end your review of Your whole business Talking about RSNES Classic Yeah Yeah, this is why I think we should do an L bonus We can do some rankings Is this something we combine it with Blackbook Or do we just skip Blackbook

[01:50:20] Don't skip Blackbook Blackbook is amazing Here's the thing I love Blackbook To end like not having participated Or heard any of the other ones yet Like it's amazing that he rebounded from this Yes This movie is fine It's like a C plus Yeah, that's what it is

[01:50:33] It's unbelievable that he went away Six years later made an amazing movie No, it's five out of ten There's enough stuff The stuff I like in this movie I like a lot It's just a kind of end-to-end Well, we're gonna do our ranking Okay

[01:50:44] But isn't it cool that he disappeared from Hollywood Permanently I'm sure Made a really good movie An epic Didn't do anything for ten more years And then made a masterpiece Yes It's cool that he didn't hit rock bottom And be one of these guys like Yes, of course

[01:50:59] Yeah, for sure For Peter St. who just are never going to do anything And then he made L and it got a fucking Oscar nomination He made that movie and it got an Oscar nomination Which is insane Yeah He's the opposite of the hollowman

[01:51:10] In that he looked in the mirror And didn't like what he saw and took stock And then And he felt like Hollywood was making him hollow Yes They call it hollowwood for a reason I mean L has fucking video game porn in it

[01:51:21] Like it's not like he went stately You know, he's still a same old Paul And the Blackbook is really lurid and sexual And thrilling The other thing that's fascinating Don't skip on it No, the other thing that's fascinating Geez, I just broke my microphone

[01:51:33] Oh my god, holy shit The other thing, I'm good Ben I'm good Ben's so mad Ben's furious, he's screwed up with rage The other thing The other thing that's interesting about L And I guess we'll just do a fucking episode now

[01:51:43] But that L is kind of to the French erotic thriller What the Verhoeven Hollywood movies are To the American blockbuster Like it's him adopting An outside perspective To the dominant genre Yeah I wanna, yeah one thing like We're doing a bonus Yeah

[01:51:59] One thing that I'm sure will come up box office wise But like talk about the American blockbuster But like, you know, two weeks before this movie Uh-huh X-Men Yeah Well, we're gonna do the box office game right now Not to spoil any element of it

[01:52:14] But there's no chance you wouldn't have gotten that Look, the man not beaten by the man This is like, to me like There's no clear thing that like this era is over The 90s are over Yes, you're right Uh, adult R rated sci-fi high concept thrillers Are over

[01:52:31] This is a good box office game And as of two weeks prior to the release of this movie Like this is the thing now And you have this summer is kick started by The highest grossing film of that summer Which was Mission Impossible 2 Correct

[01:52:42] And is like once again Here's a passing of the baton It's no longer the star driven Right but the But there's still gladiator this year You know there are still these movies That now no studio would be interested in But it's shifting Yeah, it is shifting

[01:52:54] You go Russell Crowe with that point to put that big of a budget on him Well you know who is going to be the star Guy Piers Banderas What? You didn't know that Of gladiator That's why he's Spanish That's insane In the movie he's called the Spaniard

[01:53:06] You know, he's Maximus But they keep calling him the Spaniard They didn't change that after Banderas They decided not to change that Because who cares it's Iberia anyway But like It's like That was a Banderas role

[01:53:16] And I think Banderas would be a lot of fun in that movie I don't know if this is good Because Russell Crowe has Is phenomenal in that movie I think It's just like that's the role he was designed to play Exactly

[01:53:27] But I do feel like that to me is the thing when I look this up Because again I didn't look at what else was out at this time But I just know that X-Men had just come out Yeah, because X-Men is a July movie And now 17 years later

[01:53:37] Like the idea of there being a movie like Pullaman is insane And the idea of there being a movie like X-Men is Monthly Right, and I was Fucking bi-weekly This summer I was all about X-Men I was just like X-Men obsessive Came out the weekend on my birthday

[01:53:51] Couldn't have been happier I was waiting my whole life for it That was how I felt when I saw X-Men I was like they finally made something approaching What I was looking for I had all the trading cards I was like all in on fucking everything

[01:54:02] I had also seen Hugh Jackman On stage in Oklahoma So I was even in on Hugh Jackman Before the movie came out Like that's how far into X-Men I was I was so into X-Men And I loved Fly Away Home

[01:54:15] So it was like on the Anna Pakwin trade I was gonna say I was so into X-Men That for the year or two after this I felt personally invested in the career of every actor in X-Men So I remember seeing like Sugar and Spice opening weekend

[01:54:25] Cause Marsden was in it And like Swordfish Right, like any of the movies that had any of the X-Men In them I was behind Swordfish is another kind of relic Like the kind of thing here that's going out I would love to do a Swordfish

[01:54:39] Dominoxenna, that's her next name That's Dominoxenna Who's right to that? Dominoxenna Why did I think that it was Simon West? Cause they're very similar Cause it makes no difference No, that is Dominoxenna in between like California And Gone in 60 Seconds He made Swordfish Which has that absolutely

[01:54:55] No it's after Gone in 60 Seconds Maybe yeah, you're right Yeah, absolutely horrifying monologue from John Travolta That opens the whole movie I look at that monologue all the time It's so funny He's like they don't shoot the hostages It's just monologuing to like a video camera

[01:55:09] About Hollywood and how Hollywood movies are crap And he has like the razor's pen It's not even a soul patch It's like a little triangle It's like a vertical Hitler mustache It's like a soul sabre It's like razor fin

[01:55:21] Is it true Alex that every time you've auditioned an actor For any of your films you've had them do that monologue? That's the monologue You just hand them the sides The script is top secret So you're gonna do this monologue from Swordfish

[01:55:32] And when you're given the choice to walk in When they're like have you prepared something You're like yes I'll be doing Yeah John Travolta's monologue from Swordfish Or a nice monologue from Crash about racism Oh my god I did see someone do a Crash monologue once

[01:55:46] Like my bold statement Yeah that is bold We also keep crashing into each other I couldn't tell you one fucking line from Crash I just remember crashing into you I just remember that when I walked out of Crash I was like so she falls down the stairs

[01:55:58] Because she was so mean to her cleaning lady That the cleaning lady cleaned too much And so the stairs were slippery right And everyone else was like huh Like you're thinking too hard Yeah Anyway Number one What's Hollywood Man 26 million That's a good opening For 2000 for August

[01:56:12] That's a healthy fucking opening It's fine It makes Got my money Twice How much was a King of Prussia ticket back then $8 I was gonna guess eight Do you wanna hear something really embarrassing Sure The only movie I've seen multiple times in one weekend

[01:56:26] I think was the first Shrek The only movie? That's the worst thing I've ever heard in my life I'm sorry I think that's the only movie I saw I saw literally Friday, Saturday, Sunday Oh my god Is that true? That's even worse

[01:56:37] I've just like seen movies twice in one weekend So like you won't see Last Jedi Like Thursday and Saturday I saw I remember seeing Force Awakens Thursday and Sunday Yeah I do this even still like once a year for whatever this movie is

[01:56:47] I might have seen Wally three consecutive days in a row When it came out I don't do it as much as I used to Yeah I mean at this time I would have done it regularly Like this probably would have been the third movie this summer

[01:56:56] I did it for Sure Cause you gotta see it with other friends Yes I got it That was the thing with Shrek where I saw With my little sister on a Friday It was the birthday of her and Saturday So on the princess Sunday

[01:57:06] My dad I remember showed me the box office For Shrek and said like That's your $30 right there No You moved that decimal point over Cause you saw it Number one is Halliman Number two is the previous film Number one the previous week Not X-Men

[01:57:22] No no X-Men is number six So it's not even in the top Oh interesting So I didn't ruin anything You didn't You didn't well done it Number six after Two weeks It's been out for a month I thought it came out July 16 Is it beginning to look like

[01:57:33] It came out July 14 Oh it came on my birthday I thought it came As wide as Shrek came out to 16 A year earlier Oh interesting So I think it came out on my birthday So that was a great day for me What a great day

[01:57:43] So number two was number one week Before it's a sequel in a comedy Well Not a professor to the clowns Correct I remember we saw the trailer for that In front of some movie I was with my mother watching Some probably very nice movie Yeah

[01:57:57] And we saw the trailer for that And she leaned over and she said You would have to point a gun at me To see that film My dad gladly took me Opening week and me and Jamesy I saw that movie at least twice in theaters

[01:58:07] Talk about a movie with an Unexceptible amount of sexual violence Correct Hamster on man violence That movie has dropped 60% But still 18 million in its second weekend It's dropping like a clump It's clumping down there Made 123 domestic Again Jesus Number three is a new movie

[01:58:27] From one of America's most established Oscar lauded auteurs Who makes like eight movies a year And this movie is like completely anonymous And also like I saw it in theaters And it stars a bunch of guys And I don't know He makes eight movies a year

[01:58:45] I mean I'm kidding He's incredibly prolific He's incredibly prolific He's won like three Oscars He's won three Oscars He might have four I don't know how many he has He has a lot of Oscars Geez Okay wait He still makes movies today What's the number it did

[01:59:00] And it's first weekend 18 mil And what did it end up at domestic Good question 90 Wow so it played well And it's set in space a little bit Oh it's Space Cowboys Alright I'll give it away Did you see Space Cowboys No never saw Space Cowboys

[01:59:17] I saw Space Cowboys It's kind of rude because it's Eastwood, Sutherland, Garner Who are all like old And then Tommy Lee Jones Who's like 15 to 20 years younger than them But they're kind of like looping him in It's like the crew

[01:59:28] But wouldn't he have been the young hot shot He's the young hot shot That's the idea I haven't seen that movie But I knew that right away Right John Hamm's in that movie Do you remember the crew though That's like C-Horcaxell No we don't

[01:59:39] Right and then Richard Dreyfus is 15 years younger We're going past this Alright number four We'll do our crew cast later Number four is Based on a famous bar Coyote ugly Which opened to 17 million in fourth place It was a big hit

[01:59:59] That may have been part of a double feature That I did with this movie I saw that on a date A little 14 year old date Sorry to take that away from you No I was just so excited It was a birthday present It's a birthday present

[02:00:08] John Goodman, Maria Bello, Bridget Moynihan It was a parado vehicle She learned how to dance on the bar I guess A movie based on a famous bar is a great way to I don't know how else to describe it There's only two

[02:00:21] There's that and CBGB from a few years ago Right Number five is It's based on famous bar Number five is like a sort of mainstream thriller That was a huge summer hit What lies beneath What lies beneath Which we've discussed many times on this podcast

[02:00:36] It's a crazy box office performance Yeah 150 Lot of good movies here Yeah What a great week What is this one August 10th Yes, I didn't even give you the date It's August 4th August 4th I can't believe X-Men is not even in the top five that soon

[02:00:50] I thought it would be number two It's number four I'm sorry, number six Six million It's made 136 You got Scary Movie, Perfect Storm Disney's the Kid Disney's the Kid The Patriot Pokemon the movie 2000 Which I saw alone in a giant multi-times We were talking about Pokemon

[02:01:06] Weird Al Jankovic song in the soundtrack It's called Pokemon Thomas and the Magic Railroad With Mara Wilson and Alec Baldwin I've gotta find more gold dust That's one of those trailer lines I used to make fun of all the time Do you remember that? I do

[02:01:18] When they say Alec Baldwin There's a shot of him Just springing up a waking bed Like don't wake daddy going I've gotta find more gold dust Ben Hosley has been put through a lot recently And I would say this is another one For the books Well let's say

[02:01:33] We're gonna do a bonus episode Let's announce our next miniseries Oh good call Oh yeah Oh yeah That's right And I know what the name of it is Gentlemen and Lady We're still debating over The name of this miniseries Is Podcast News It says Pod as a Cast

[02:01:50] And it's the films of James L. Brooks Podcast News I'm happy to be here to get to Hear an announcement like that Right That's the perfect title for it I agree As a pod as a cast I mean it almost seems like you

[02:02:02] I mean that's obviously less good It almost seems like you I'm gonna say obviously Realize if we did a James L. Brooks series We could call it Podcast News Right Has that been used for anything? Has that phrase existed anywhere else? I don't know

[02:02:12] I hope that I invented it And I get royalties on whatever Like NPR show called Podcast News Eventually gets invented That's really clever Yeah what would the other ones be? As Pod as a Cast Which is really good Pod as a cast How do you podcast?

[02:02:24] Pod as a cast Spang podcast He did terms of endearment? Yeah Pods of Endearment No I think Podcast News is clearly the winner Thank you Congratulations I've been given the seal of approval Well we'll continue arguing over this How many bonus episodes will that series have? 17

[02:02:44] It's gonna have one We're gonna do every episode of this We're gonna do every episode of Mary Tyler Moore It's own episode Yep It's own bonus episode Yeah just Brooks on TV is one Yeah One Yeah we'll just watch everything And in preparation for that

[02:02:57] And we'll just be on as Mad Men Did you hear him when he was on On Marin? When he locked the gates Yeah Was he good? Ken and Jim Really good episode He's a smart guy He's really smart We're gonna talk about it

[02:03:11] But not based on what our world is right now No He's very smart and he doesn't understand The world that he lives in Correct Which is fascinating He wishes the world had never changed Yes And then he came right around Spanglish time Right No one has

[02:03:28] Like he came out of the gates As hot as someone can And lost it as dramatically as someone And then kinda got it back And then really lost it again Yeah Unlike for Hoven he doesn't have A country to return to That's true Well

[02:03:40] He returns to the Landon Springfield Yeah the Bronx Ken and Jim That's his whole Twitter account Alright Ben He seems to be getting some kind Of cattle prod Oh no I see it's a Roku remote It'd be fun if you had a cattle prod though

[02:03:52] I should that one Ben is holding a stun gun right now Alex you'll be back Yes thank you for having me We'll have you back It's always a pleasure to have my own For a dynamic sound of mini series We'll have you on for swordfish Yeah

[02:04:03] Well that would be Pod in 60 seconds Yeah that's what it's called There you go you named that one too Thank you so much for being on the show Please check out Golden Exits And then Go to the Metra Joint That one was great Filmstruck Watch all this film

[02:04:16] Filmstruck great service Worth getting in on Anyway I think they're buying my entire Filmography recently So you'll probably be able to see My bakery in Brooklyn And the border of the Gonsa Free the nipple Romy and Ely's No Kiss List Naomi and Eli's No Kiss List

[02:04:30] Please no disrespect To all the great films I've been in Sorry so sorry I haven't seen that one Yeah show some respect What's it called What Fucking the beach Fortelton Well that doesn't fit in with the Drill kind of thing Right right right That one's actually interesting Yeah

[02:04:46] Thank you all for listening Please remember to rate, review, subscribe Thank you to Laymon Montgomery for Social media And for Goodo for Thank you for Laymon Fuck god damn it Jesus Christ And for Goodo Social Media Laymon Montgomery theme song Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds artwork

[02:04:59] Is that it? Please remember to rate, review, subscribe We said already Go to reddit.blankys.web.edu.org Angelfire.com slash blankys Yes 8028 Burger 8028 Burger Call into the Burger Report hotline anytime Yeah Should have asked Alex for Burger Wait no I didn't Can I just mention the thing

[02:05:18] I'm gonna talk about Oh please Very briefly And as always As always So Griffin when I saw you at the Mother Premier at MetroGraph Hummel Rack yeah Oh yeah right I was talking to you and you said I'm gonna get out of here Very tired You said goodbye

[02:05:31] Yeah I looked up five minutes later And you were standing talking to Kevin Bacon and Kira Sedgwick And I said I guess Griffin didn't leave And there was nothing but tiny Sliders being passed around that party We didn't see Bacon eating one

[02:05:43] Do you think he gets Bacon on his burger? But I thought it was Very cool that you were like I'm gonna get out of here I'm exhausted and then Two minutes later I just saw you talking to Kevin Bacon and Kira Sedgwick So I was exhausted

[02:05:52] I wanted to leave My father as I was trying to leave Roped you in Went hey Kevin you remember my You know my son Griffin right And afterwards I said Why do you say that And he went well you're both on Amazon There you go

[02:06:04] You guys hang out the water Part of the Amazon family My dad literally said He must have been so excited to talk to you And I went he had no idea who the Fuck I am What are you talking about You're both on Amazon

[02:06:12] That's a beautiful thing to say He must have been so excited to talk to you That's what my father said His your dad's the best Yeah my dad's a good guy So as always I remember seeing you Talk to Kevin Bacon at MetroGraph

[02:06:20] Who had no idea who I was And was not excited to see me He was very nice A mirror ten feet away from both myself And Jennifer Lawrence Yeah yeah who neither of us talked to No She's doing fine Okay Red Sparrow is coming out right about now

[02:06:34] Yeah goodbye