Horizon: An American Saga

Welp, our Kevin Costner series ends not with a bang, but a whimper. With the pulling of Horizon: An American Saga - Chapter 2 from theaters, we are left to only speculate what the future holds for Costner’s self-funded crazy passion project. What we can tell you is that Chapter 1 doesn’t really feel like its own self-contained movie. Plotlines are established, characters are introduced, and then…Giovanni Ribisi shows up.

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[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_00]: The American Podcast begins this summer. This movie has no quotes page. No, it's brand new! David, that doesn't stop. IMDB, user editors, most of the time. People are usually adding shit the second a trailer comes up, adding it to the quotes page and then putting in brackets from the trailer. I don't think anyone who's seen this film... Was there dialogue in the trailer? Yeah. Not much, but... Dialogue like, I'm gonna get on this horse.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone who's seen this film knows how to operate IMDB. They might know how to go to it, but like, knows how to edit IMDB? That's so true. The tagline for this movie is the American Saga begins this summer. Well, no lies detected. No lies detected. Okay, great. The American Saga does begin this summer. Okay, what's next? I can say that unilaterally about this movie. It absolutely begins. Does it end?

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_12]: We're not sure yet. I think this movie does not end. I'm gonna say that. This nice Cinemark exclusive trailer calls it the story of a nation unsettled. Ooh. Not... I mean, once again, no lies detected. No lies detected. Now I'm looking at the character posters. Whoa, there's a lot of them! Really?

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I... I'm like, even just searching Horizon and American Saga quote, I'm not finding anything on any site.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_12]: Who's your favorite? Tag yourself. I'm Abby Lee. I know I'm Abby Lee. There's no question about that.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_12]: There's no question you're Abby Lee. Yeah, I'm like, I don't wanna go... Where? We gotta go somewhere? Like, her whole arc is like, what? Can't I just hang out?

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_09]: I still am not... We gotta go. Is the baby hers or Jenna Malone's? No, it's Jenna Malone's.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_04]: It's Jenna Malone's. Yeah, it's Jenna Malone's baby. She is looking after the baby.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_12]: I think this whole episode is gonna be a lot of... Wait, what?

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Who is that guy doing, though? What now? Is that the same kid or is that a different kid?

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: This is... Same kid. No, no, I'm saying... Oh, yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_04]: This is how Griffin and I watch the entire movie. With hushed voices going, did we meet this person yet?

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Did we already know this? Yes. You spent 30 minutes thinking Abby Lee was Anna Lynn McCord.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_05]: That is very true.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm so embarrassed about it and I wasn't going to bring it up.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Who's Anna Lynn McCord again?

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_04]: She's like the crazy lady from the Beverly Hills 90210 reboot who, like, read some poem about...

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_04]: The first reboot, not the second.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: The one just called 90210.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_04]: They did a second one?

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Which was the original cast in a meta show. It was almost like a Cobra Kai.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, weird.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But they're the actors.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_04]: That cultural moment completely passed me by.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I thought it was Anna Lynn McCord and I was like, to Griffin, I was like,

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_04]: this woman's a crazy person.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And he was like...

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Anna Lynn McCord does a lot of stuff on social media that's a little unhinged.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, she seems a little, like, Q adjacent.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_04]: She references the storm a lot, which I don't know if she's referencing the Q storm or some

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_04]: other storm, but, like, that's like...

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_12]: This is a great way to start.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_04]: First line and bio.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_04]: But anyway...

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_12]: Talking about someone who's not...

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_12]: Not in the movie.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_12]: ...in this movie.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Griffin was like, oh, is Abby Lee crazy?

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, it's Abby Lee.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, my mistake.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I apologize.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But Marie was looking with great concern.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, from the moment Abby Lee entered on screen, I was like, what's going wrong?

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was upset.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here, casting-wise.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know...

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_12]: I think about how the 90210 reboot, titled 90210 on the CW...

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, which was very much a post-gossip girl, CW's trying to build out...

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Ran for five seasons.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And Anna Lynn McCord was tapped with a similar kind of, like, Blake Lively energy, and then

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that show very quickly did not become a full phenomenon, even though it lasted five seasons,

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and she sort of disappeared, other than being the world's best poster.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_12]: I remember that Tristan Wilds was on it.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Who's Tristan Wilds?

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_12]: He was in The Wire.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_12]: He played Michael Lee, one of the great characters in The Wire that's introduced in

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_12]: the school season.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_12]: And it was just so funny that he had gone from that character in The Wire to, I assume,

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_12]: someone who sits in a pool a lot of the time in 902.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_12]: It's just like, hey, you got to shoot in Baltimore.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_12]: It's going to be a lot of, like, really dingy stuff.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, you're on the streets.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_12]: Blah, blah, blah.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_12]: And then it's just like, what's your role on 90210?

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_12]: Pool man.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_12]: What is it, Ben?

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_11]: It's just, before we start to record, got to make this one a short one.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, we got to start.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_11]: We got to get into it.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_11]: We do got to get into it.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_11]: And then, and I'm just watching it unfold before my eyes.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_11]: Ben's losing it.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: You kidding me?

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be the Tom Payne character poster.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at the Tom Payne character poster.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: He has my cluck energy.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: He's the only one who...

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: He's the little glasses guy.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: He's the British guy who's...

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_10]: He's a loser.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_12]: We're all allowed 50 jugs of water a day here, right?

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_12]: Luke was like, come on, man.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Making his little drawing.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry to be a bother.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Would you mind not looking at my wife's snips?

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_12]: Can we all just say this right now?

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_12]: I want to just see if everyone agrees.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_12]: The best plot line is Luke Wilson's wagon train.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_09]: No question.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_12]: But it comes in two hours and is kind of almost an L because you're like, I could have been

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_12]: with this wagon train the whole time.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I was so in every time they went to the plot line.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say, like, the Tom Payne and Ella Hunt characters are kind of driving me crazy,

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: but drive me crazy in a way where I felt really engaged.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_04]: You were engaged.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I wanted to see them killed.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like...

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_04]: It's horrible.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_04]: They better get scalped by the end of this movie.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_11]: Do you disagree?

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_11]: I saw this movie last night in the middle of the night.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_11]: So it's kind of a blur to me.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_11]: Welcome to Blank Check.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: This is Blank Check with Griffin and David.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Griffin.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm David.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Who else is here?

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Marie.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Barty.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And Ben.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Posley.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success,

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: early on in their career, such as making Dances with Wolves.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I like that you said directors.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Directors.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Like director-actors.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't intentional, but I'm going to own it now.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's really cool.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Directors who win Best Picture and Best Director and make a film that grosses hundreds

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: of millions of dollars worldwide and then basically spend the rest of their career

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_00]: as a filmmaker chasing that to a certain extent.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Costner looks out on the horizon and goes,

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I know where I'm going.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone follow me.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone does for a while.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: They get a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes those checks clear.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they bounce baby.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes you're not given the check.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you have to whip open your own checkbook.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Put the money down.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Sell a couple of waterfront properties, maybe.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And insist upon the public that you are making four of these.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Today we're talking about one of the wildest gambles in a long time.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Horizon, an American saga, chapter one.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I have a colon and an M dash.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is our, of course, our series on the films of Kevin Costner podcasts with Wolves.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh!

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Marie.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: David, you saw this movie at a screening?

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I did.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_12]: I saw it at Warner Media.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_12]: Was it an afternoon?

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, yeah.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_12]: It was a 1 p.m. screening.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_12]: A mercifully scheduled 1 p.m. screening at Hudson Yards.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_12]: Marie and I saw it on 1130.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_12]: A.m.?

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_12]: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_12]: At the Alamo, so you had what I really would have liked, which is essentially a meal break.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_04]: So that was intentional.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Of course.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_12]: That's how I would have done it.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_04]: We did not see this film on a big screen.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_04]: No.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It was in one of the little shoebox theaters.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, all those Manhattan ones are small.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_12]: But I mean, the screen's still pretty sizable.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_04]: You're close to it.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_04]: But we, you know, we sacrificed the vistas for the sustenance.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But there was this question.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You had seen it.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, hey, Ben, Marie, let's figure out when all three of us can go see Horizon

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: together.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to leave one sad soldier fighting Horizon alone.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a thing where it was just like, Marie can only do Saturday.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, look.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_06]: It was tough to do schedules.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie can only do Sunday.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben could only do Saturday.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And I put my thumb down and I was like, Ben, I'd rather do the day-to-day.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Valentine Sunday than the evening Saturday.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So we went, we saw it at the right time, which is you wake up.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Get some coffee.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You have five cups of coffee.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You order three more cups at your seat.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You watch Horizon.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben?

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_11]: I went on my halonesome to go see a screening at 10 p.m.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_11]: So it technically started at 1030.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_11]: In Astoria, Queens, right.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: At 1030.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You had to sit through trailers.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You texted us at 1027 the title card coming up.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said that title's just getting started because what you texted us was just the word

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Horizon.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: There's more to come.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_04]: There's more to come.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So we got a text from Ben at 9.58 p.m.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_04]: My private Horizon.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Just Ben.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Empty.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Completely empty theater.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_11]: That's correct.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_11]: I was the only soul in the theater.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_12]: And that remained true?

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Wow.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_12]: Paul Rubin's dream.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_12]: No one even came in to like have some anonymous sex or something.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_12]: An employee came in and was like, oh, surprised to see you there.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin came in and shook your hand personally.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_03]: David threatened to show up at 1130 and rob your sleeping body.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't even be asleep by then.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_10]: I was just going to lift your wallet.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: You said you had bought popcorn.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said that Costner paid for the colonels himself.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And then this quote from Alex Barron is funny.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Kevin Costner has the wide open expanses of the American West, then has Theater 5 at

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_04]: the Kauffman Astoria.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: The UA Kauffman Astoria, which I love.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: United Artists, the theater chain, has long been owned by Regal.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: That is the one that is still just like we haven't bothered to reprint it.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Relax.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_11]: It's the UA.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_11]: You get it.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_11]: I love that theater.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's great.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, they've done it up, it seems like, in Regal finery at this point.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_12]: They got the recliners and all that.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_11]: That theater is a little hidden gem.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_11]: It's just if you're in New York City and you want the suburban movie going experience,

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_00]: that's the place to go.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_11]: It absolutely feels like a mall movie theater.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_11]: Like the people that work there are not like currently at NYU studying to be filmmakers.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_11]: They are like pimply high school kids.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_11]: You're surrounded by eggheads like us.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You're with the real America.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: America.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: The America that Kevin Costner dreams of.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really funny that he's a California guy.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Costner?

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_04]: The man literally grew up in Compton.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think he, there's something, I don't think he's disingenuous.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's ever pretending.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But his spirit, you're like, did this guy emerge out of a literal tumbleweed?

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Out of like an eagle's eye.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: In Montana.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Did he crawl out of the rocks?

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Like so many Montana residents, he moved there once he got rich.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_12]: And I, by the way, I mean, you know, people who own vast swathes of land in Montana.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_12]: Um, Kevin Costner has directed Horizon American Saga for chapter one for us.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_12]: We've all seen it.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_00]: He did it for us.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_12]: He did it kind of for us.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_12]: We have done a little Kevin Costner series and we've had fun with this silly, silly man.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And look, we, we decide these things fairly far in advance.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: A couple months ago, we were like, should we fucking do it?

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about Costner for a while.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: He's such a fascinating figure and Horizon's such a big gamble.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And the question was like, how is this thing going to pan out?

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We're committing to doing him before we get to see it.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the weirdest things.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He's had a really fun press tour that's justified our decision.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think talking about the previous movies, I think you're seeing a lot of movie podcasts

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: doing this.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Big Picture did their fucking great Kevin Costner Hall of Fame episode, uh, that almost

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: broke out into fisticuffs.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But like just Amanda and Sean trying to interrogate, like, what is he?

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_00]: He is such an endlessly fascinating figure as like this weird, like American West Sphinx.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And like at his rise, at his peak in the 80s and 90s, when he has his moment of kind

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: of inarguably being the guy for a couple of years, he was throwbacky at that point.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like an 80s, 90s movie star who's like, we got to roll things back to the way

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: they were in the 40s and 50s.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And now in the 2020s, he's like, we got to roll things back to how I did them in the

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: 80s and 90s.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you mean when you were then throwing back to the 40s and 50s?

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And he remains so adamant of like, I don't care what anyone thinks.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not chasing trends.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I got to do things my way.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And Fran, our friend, Fran Hoffner, wrote this great fucking piece about him.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen this from a lot of people where there's something so square about him that when

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: we were growing up, our people, our generation, our age, he seemed kind of like,

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of lame.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, this is the ultimate dad movie star.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And now I feel like there is something that almost feels transgressive about how square

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: he is, where he is so against the tide of what's happening, which has made the idea of like,

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: wouldn't it be great if Horizon just proves fucking everyone wrong?

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: If like his audience just rolls out in droves and it's this kind of success that no one could

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: anticipate.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's an artistic triumph.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I had not seen a Costner directed film until I watched Dances with Wolves this week.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, so you still haven't seen the postman?

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm handing you a letter.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_12]: Let's put on a hat.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_12]: And you still haven't.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I have the open range.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that what it's called?

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Open range.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Griffin told me I would really like open range.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_04]: But unfortunately.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_12]: It has a monologue about chocolate delivered by Robert Duvall.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_12]: That sounds great.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And I didn't even realize like Annette Bening's in it.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_12]: She's all over that fucking thing.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_12]: You kidding me?

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds great.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I will watch.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, by the time.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Michael Gambon plays a mean Irishman.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_04]: That's how that's how we love to see him.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, by the time this episode airs, I will have seen every Kevin Costner movie.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But you're still really trying to wrap your head around it.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying to wrap my head around him.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas David Ben and I are deep in it.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_04]: You guys are deep in Costner.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you have worked with him as we've talked about.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Your close personal friend.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_04]: One of my best friends.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_12]: I've worked with him in that I find watching his movies to be like work.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Same.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_12]: I love the guy.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_04]: My my like experience of Kevin Costner is mostly through Madonna colon truth or dare.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: A film with one of his better performances.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Where he, you know, goes backstage at a Madonna show, tells her her show was neat.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And she immediately like doesn't know how to respond, gets totally grossed out and then

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_04]: does like the like vomit thing.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Neat.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_04]: What kind of loser is Kevin Costner?

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_04]: That to me was Kevin Costner.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: That has framed your perception.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And you were talking about Madonna right before this episode about seeing her at a restaurant

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: once and not being able to eat because you were so transfixed.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I was.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So you follow what Madonna does.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Madonna framed your perception of Kevin Costner.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So and I'm, you know, I'm a woman not to be gender essentialist or whatever, but like

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Westerns have never really been my thing unless they're like revisionist Westerns or like

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_04]: commenting on masculinity or American power or whatever.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But we were talking about this walking out of the theater, how like Costner sort of in

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: in this very self mythologizing press tour he's been doing for Horizon, both pumping up Horizon

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and looking back on his career and patting himself on the back for all the times he was

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_00]: correct.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And his sort of strategy.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: He always talks about like, I'm not afraid to make the kind of men's movies that people

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: don't make for men anymore.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But also the reason I'm successful is because I think about my female audience and you watch

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: it and you're like, here's the thing.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie's making a face that I don't disagree with.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm making like the Robert De Niro like.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But I also think they showed up more than men.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: If you they did this weekend.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at like the six years of his like absolute dominance, that was clearly the

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: X factor going on with him.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes a lot of the ways it felt like I mean, he he does try to establish these strong

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: female characters.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: He like sort of objectifies himself in an interesting way.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_00]: In a lot of his movies.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's something very like arrogant about it.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But you watch him in his movies be like, well, obviously women are coming to see my butt.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_08]: I got to show my butt and Robin Hood.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_08]: One more.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_08]: One more shot.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Let's get it into for love of the game.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_12]: Really, Kevin?

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_04]: What?

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I have never.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_04]: The only time I've ever been attracted to Kevin Costner was in that clip from Tony Scott's

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Revenge that was circulating on Twitter recently.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_12]: Of them driving normally.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_12]: In their car.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Of him and Madeline Stowe.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Being normal in a car.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Having a normal drive.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And doing normal things to a.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I think.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Massey, massey, mas.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_12]: You don't think he's hot in No Way Out?

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_12]: He's really hot.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_12]: Bull Durham.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_12]: He's really.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_12]: Bull Durham is when he's hot.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_04]: He just.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't do anything for me.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_04]: But I will say.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_04]: The one thing that helped unlock Kevin Costner for me.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know if you've brought this up yet.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I haven't listened to the episodes.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, because the way we're recording this.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_04]: That he is like Barbra Streisand, but for boys.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you talk about this?

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we have.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I look.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: This was not.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Game.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's like Barbra Streisand.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_12]: And the reaction from our Reddit was very similar to us doing him.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think these two careers are paired in a lot of ways.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting that we're covering them both within the same year.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there are certain like everything that's powerful about him also feels very in

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation with his like humongous blind spots, which is also Barbara.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, where you're just like there are the ways in which they are like, this is what

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I the story I need to tell.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And then there are the things they are saying even louder than their intent that are so reflective

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: of their mind and their worldview that are so fascinating to me.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: We get to not to jump way ahead in this movie, but we get to the scene where,

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Abby Lee, basically as a thank you, as as a return act of kindness, fucks the sleeping

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Costner.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's kind of trying to like distract him, too.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I thought it was like a farewell.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that we're going to fucking dissect the scene at length.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But Marie goes, what is the sex scene?

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And knowing she hasn't watched the other Costner movies, I was like, Marie, get ready.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to see this scene play out two more times.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Kevin Costner has like a fetish for like laying there something going on here.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Because Postman is going to give you six minutes of this.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_12]: No, Postman is very normal.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_12]: And the way that happens is regular.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_12]: It happens all the time that a husband approaches Kevin Costner and is like, please, your sperm.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The amount of Kevin Costner movies where a woman comes up to him and is like, I assume

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: you want sex.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, no, I'm not interested.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm looking out into the distance right now.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get naked.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It's happening.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But then an hour later, the woman comes back and she just starts.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Starts fucking him.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, why are you doing this?

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, because you didn't want it.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_12]: And then they're like, and you're good at this somehow.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_12]: I know.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And also your come is our gold.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: David.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what we like?

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_00]: If you had to name one thing that you and I show like.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we love the movie.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We love the movie.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: What?

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And what do we love?

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: We love going to see the movies at the theaters.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: That is very, very true.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a thing we stump for.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_12]: The theater experience is worth preserving, is the best way to experience a movie.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And let's just say it.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: David, we're thrilled.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We're excited.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We're overjoyed.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: This has long been in the works to celebrate the great union of Regal and Blank Check.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Because Regal Cinemas is offering Blankies an incredible deal on unlimited movies.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You know from the Regal Unlimited program, David.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_12]: The Regal Unlimited program is an all you can watch movie subscription pass.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_12]: It pays for itself in just two visits.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You see any standard 2D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions, premium formats.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You can get your reservations for those as well.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Pay the little surcharge, which of course includes my beloved 4DX.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: With Regal Unlimited, you won't just save money on tickets.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You also save on snacks.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Members get 10% off all non-alcoholic concession items.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're planning to see two movies this month, Regal Unlimited just makes sense.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: We're both fans of this program.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_12]: We're both members.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_12]: Regal Unlimited, exactly.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_12]: We're both members.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_12]: Card carrying members.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_12]: And it is insane how easy it is to use it.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It is so simple.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy peasy.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what else is easy peasy?

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You can sign up right now in the Regal app or at the link in the description for this episode

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and use code BLANKCHECK, one word, to get 10% off your three-month subscription.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is a big deal.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Huge.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_12]: This is a movie company that shows movies in theaters.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_12]: Which we love.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_12]: Sponsoring our movie podcast.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_12]: And the two of us go to Regal Cinemas to see movies.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Once again, 4DX.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't understand how exciting this is for us, guys.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I also want to say, here's some benefits.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You sign up for Regal Unlimited.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You get the free tickets for your one subscription fee, right?

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Per month.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You also can earn points.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Get your points.

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[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: This is real Griff stuff here.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: The Regal Crown Club.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_12]: I've been a member since 2008, baby.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You can redeem those points for upgrades on concessions or free concessions.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But also, you can log on to their website and you can buy excess promotional merchandise.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I do this all the time.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, how do you get figural cup toppers months later?

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[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_12]: I love my birthday.

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[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little more excited about it, David.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: That's incredible.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_10]: It's really incredible.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_12]: What ease of use.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Once again, go to the Regal app or you can use the link in the description

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_12]: and use code BLANKCHECK to get 10% off your three-month subscription.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Regal.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you can go see movies.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_12]: I go to the Regal Essex a lot.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_12]: That's sort of my local Regal.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm a little brag.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_12]: Where do you go?

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I go to Union Square because they got the 40X.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_00]: A classic.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You like the 40X.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I love the 40X, David.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_12]: Regal.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_12]: In 1988, a couple years after the success, mild success, of Silverado,

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_00]: a film he was in.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Starting to become successful.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Silverado was an MGM film, a United Artists film.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_12]: Back to the UA Kaufman Astoria with you.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_00]: He's talked about how him popping in Silverado.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it was Sony.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It was Sony.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: They came to him and were like,

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: we want to actually be in business with you.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Here are scripts we have.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We feel like you're a leading man on the cusp.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So he's starting to already think about, I'm developing my own projects,

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: even though he hasn't really been tested as the guy yet.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_12]: I just know that he had made Silverado.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_12]: He wanted to make another Western, a darker one.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like this.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I made my Saturday matinee Western.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I made my sort of for fun kids Western.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I make my searing epic?

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: He turns to Mark Kasdan.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Brother of?

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_12]: Lawrence Kasdan, director of Silverado.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_12]: And he turns to him and says,

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_12]: do you want to write me maybe like a two-hander Western?

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_12]: And like, we can see where we go from there.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_12]: And out of that comes the character Hayes.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Hayes Ellison.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_12]: Hayes Ellison.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_12]: That Kermit Costner plays in this movie.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You might have noticed that his son is in this film in a primary role

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and that his son is named Hayes Costner.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people surmised,

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: oh, he must have named his character,

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: the one that Kevin plays in Horizon,

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: after his son.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And the reality is,

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: he named his son after the character

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that was written for him in 1988.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_12]: He's had this name for a long time.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_12]: It's true.

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_12]: This character Hayes lived in a town called Sidewinder.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_12]: Eventually that would become Horizon.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is one of the early concepts he's really into is

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_00]: all these Westerns are built around this small town,

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: this local economy,

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: this America that's building itself.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to make the movie about the town,

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: how the town comes to exist.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like a TV show to me.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, certainly in the 80s,

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_12]: that would not have been less of a thing.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_12]: And no one wants to produce the script.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_12]: He said it was a single movie.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_12]: It was a two-hander,

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_12]: a conventional Western with a beginning,

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_12]: middle and end.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_12]: And I couldn't get anyone to make it.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Time passes.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Other Costner movies that are Westerns come along.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_12]: Dances with Wolves.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_12]: Why?

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_12]: He makes himself.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_12]: He wins the Oscar.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_12]: It's a huge hit.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you know who gives the best picture Oscar to Kevin Costner?

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Barbara Streisand.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_12]: Barbara Streisand.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_12]: She sure did.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: She sure did.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Wyatt Earp, another cast in project.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_12]: The Postman, which he makes himself.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Open Rain, which Costner directs in his wonder.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie and I were talking about this on Sunday.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Costner recently came up in the Cinematrix

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and the grid was Western.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Pick a Western with Kevin Costner.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And we were like,

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: ostensibly there are only five that are actual Westerns.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we just named them all.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah,

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you could argue that like 75% of the movies this guy has made feel like Westerns.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Western vibes.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: What are we talking about?

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: James Mangold over here?

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Secretly.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Secretly a Western.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing though.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like...

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_05]: A perfect...

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Is it a perfect world?

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_00]: A perfect world feels very Western-y.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Of course.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Revenge, wherever it takes place.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Feels Western-y in some of the tropes.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: His very presence feels Western-y.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Dragonfly?

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_12]: I haven't seen it.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_00]: A death Western.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that the one directed by Tom Shady?

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_04]: We're definitely covering it.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_12]: After Open Range, Costner goes to Disney and says,

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_12]: come on, I've got this script.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Open Range was just kind of like a solid on-base double or triple.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, you know what?

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You found a good model.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You kept this movie.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Sort of...

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: He kept it the right size.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Kevin's still trying to overcome his reputation for being an out-of-control,

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: over-budget, over-schedule maniac from the 90s, especially as the star is dimmed.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And Open Range, it's like he delivered it.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It did well.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to continue to do well on DVD.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, can you give us another one of these?

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_12]: He said they had a $5 million difference when it came down to budget, and they didn't make the movie.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: At this point, it's still the two-hander script.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_12]: One-year-old movie.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_12]: And then it dawned on him.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_12]: Every Western always has a town.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_12]: These towns are fought over.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_12]: There was struggle.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_12]: The land was important.

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_12]: The Native Americans had already picked the best places to settle, and now us white people go,

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_12]: well, we'll just take this.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_12]: And I wanted to think of the idea of what if we reverse-engineered it and said,

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_12]: let's go to when there's no town.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_12]: How did it start?

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_12]: What's the mythology?

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_12]: And so all of this starts churning in his brain.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_12]: In 2011, he seriously restarts this with a writing partner, John Baird.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_12]: Who had written some sort of illustrated novel called The Explorer's Guild with Kistner.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Which Costner has a write-up for.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Costner bankrolled this.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Said it was going to be a four-part book.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Only the first one has ever come out.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I just ordered it.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I only found out about it the other day, so I will have read it by the time we get to our Horizon Chapter 2 episode.

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It is like, yeah, a book series that never concluded or never continued about the American frontier

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that is apparently indebted to Tintin in its illustration style.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds cool.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds very fascinating.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_12]: Costner says a Baird who apparently was in the band Lustra, who had the song Scotty Doesn't Know in Eurotrip.

[00:28:09] Oh, wow.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Great moment.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_09]: So random.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_09]: But I think JJ made a point of saying he didn't play on that one.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_09]: We're not sure.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The credits are unclear.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: He was part of that band, but perhaps not for their biggest moment.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Costner says, John's a big research guy.

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm a human behavior guy.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_12]: He goes back and forth between us.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_12]: So I assume John does all the work and then Costner's like, yeah, but he would fuck Abby Lee at this point.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_13]: Let's write that in.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_13]: These are coming out of his mouth.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_13]: She's coming really hard.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I just can't get over it.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_12]: All of the everything I just said is alleged.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_12]: For all I know, Kevin Costner writes and flames come out of his pen every time he does.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_12]: But everything I just said is a direct quote.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Their vision for the project.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_12]: America's expansion to the West was one that was fraught with peril and intrigue from natural elements.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_12]: That's interactions with indigenous peoples who lived on the land and the determination and ruthlessness of those who thought to sought to settle it.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon tells the story of that journey in an honest and forthcoming way.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I just want to just restate.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: He spent 20 years.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: That spanned the absolute rise and fall and then sort of vague rebounding of his movie star career and his currency in Hollywood, trying to get a focus two-hander off the ground.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And after 20 plus years, his takeaway was I should make four of them.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: No one's giving me money for one.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is this is too contained.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I should make this unwieldy.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_08]: He's been in interviews basically saying this, like, I'm such an idiot that everyone told me no.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_08]: And I figured, well, if it's hard to get one of them made, I should make it four instead.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_12]: It's almost like it's a bit of a blank check project.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_12]: Also, there's lots of quotes where he's like, the story involves lots of women.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_12]: Women, you know, the West doesn't carry on without women.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_12]: And if they, you know, blah, blah, blah.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_12]: So, you know, does that placate you, Marie?

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, Marie, do you feel good?

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Actually, women are at the center of this story.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Do you feel good now, Marie?

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Are they?

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_12]: I said to you guys, I was like, if you pointed a gun at me, I would call Sienna Miller the quote unquote most important character in this movie.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_12]: But that's a huge stretch because it's there's really just multiple parallel storylines.

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really hard to pick a there's no real lead.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Women at the center of the story.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_00]: If you pause this movie at one hour and 30 minutes, there might be a woman on screen.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_06]: There could be.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I guess I just went into this movie figuring Costner would be the center of gravity.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_12]: And then you realize, like, now he's kind of like a C-plot like character.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: This pheasant structural thing where the movie is like intertwining plots from the beginning.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not broken up into like sections.

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You could absolutely see this being more Buster Scruggs-y.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Chapter one.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Like this whole movie is chapter one, correct?

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_04]: That is correct.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's not divided like, you know.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why it's weird.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_00]: The first hour, we're cross-cutting between a couple different narrative threads.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And then one hour in, you introduce Costner.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And now he's getting worked in as are a couple other side threads.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we don't meet the wagon people until hour two.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_12]: It's very regimented.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_04]: One thing I just want to just so the audience, you know, listeners feel like they're there with us.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And Griffin at one point, 40 minutes into the movie goes, I really have to pee.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not leaving.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_14]: Until I see how Costner is introduced.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: We've told this story on our Batman Begins episode where similarly I had a horrible nosebleed and I wouldn't go to the bathroom until Batman came on screen.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I turned to my friends and said, I'm not leaving until he says I'm Batman.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had the same thing of like, I need to see how Costner shoots himself if he's taking an hour before he brings himself on screen.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the shot's in the trailer.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_04]: But honestly, it was thrilling to see.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We both kind of gasped.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And you were just like, that's movie star.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That's movie star shit.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You cut an hour in new fucking establishing card, a line of horses.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And then without the focus shifting, Costner just rides directly into the center of the frame perfectly in focus and just holds a look for like 15 seconds.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_05]: It was good.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And you feel some juice of like that is an undeniable movie star on screen now.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I proceeded to take a shit.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I took three shits during this movie, I want to say, which speaks to just kind of speaks to length.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But also, I would say it speaks to you more than the film's length.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_05]: That many cups of coffee.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't care.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't go to the bathroom at all during this movie.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_04]: But I did have horrible acid reflux when I got home.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, what'd you eat?

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Philly Tuesday.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Philly Tuesday.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And a coffee.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_12]: At the Alamo Draft House.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_12]: That might do it to you.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, boy.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, it was really painful.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought I was having a heart attack.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_12]: When you got home?

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_12]: Bad acid reflux will really fuck with you.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_04]: It happened like two hours after I got home from Horizon.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_04]: But I was really like, I was really scared.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't feel my hands.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_04]: But no, it was just really bad acid reflux from Horizon.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you sure you weren't just deep in thought of how America was formed?

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_12]: And how, let me read another quote here.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not looking for kudos because women are in it.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_12]: For me, they're not in it.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_12]: They actually dominate the movie, to be honest.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Each one of these women dominate while they're on the screen.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_12]: That's like him saying like, anytime a woman's on the screen, she, her whole body is visible.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_12]: She's standing there.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Every time a woman is on screen, I am laying down and she is mounting me.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_07]: As a thank you.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there was also.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_12]: It's just one of those things where it's like, Kevin, shh.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_12]: There's honestly plenty of women in the film.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_12]: You do not need to suddenly be like, if anything, there aren't any men in the film.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, going on like a reverse.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_00]: For our sake, for the podcast, I'm like, Kevin, never stop talking.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't censor yourself at all.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: He, I mean, I've just been watching and listening to like every interview of him I can find.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And it is a point made on Big Picture this week.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that Horizon Part 2 comes out only six weeks after this one.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Is he just going to stay on the campaign trail for the entire summer?

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Great question.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_04]: There are so many more banana smoothies for him to try.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good shake.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: He was saying that obviously he put up most of the money for this movie or at least a chunk of it.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: A good chunk of it.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_00]: A good percentage of it.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: He is just a pure distribution deal with new line of Warner Brothers for this.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But the film plays at the Cannes Film Festival and it was going to be on his dime.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Any of the sort of Cannes related expenses.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And he went to the men of the cast and he was like, look, I'd be the one paying out.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd be the one paying out of pocket to fly people out.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the right thing to do if all of you agree is I only bring the women out.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And so at Cannes it was just him walking the fucking staircase, walking the closet or whatever with all of the women in the cast.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think he presented it as like, I want to give them their moment.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Sienna Miller, Jenna Malone, Abby Lee, Ella Hunt, Isabel Furman, other people, I assume.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And so his read is just like, this is the generous thing to do.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the gentlemanly thing to do.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And I listen and I'm like, that is also huge divorce guy energy of being like, you know what?

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm paying out of pocket, I just want to be surrounded by eight beautiful women.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Ladies and ball gowns.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Now, I'm going to tell you some more Costner quotes here because he's normal.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_12]: There's real drama in how people cross this country.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_12]: There's always this tendency to think it was a simpler time.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_12]: It was infinitely more difficult.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Does anyone think it was a simpler?

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_12]: You're dealing with unknowns, Marie.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_12]: Everyone thinks it was simpler.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_12]: You didn't know where you were going.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_12]: You had to arbitrate your own problems.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_12]: When you were confronted by issues, you had to make up your mind very quickly in tough situations.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_12]: Sometimes life and death situations.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Try that on a daily basis and see if you don't want to live with your computer and shit.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, speaking of computers and shit, I mean, my childhood, we had a whole fucking computer game about how hard it was to move westward.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_12]: But it made it seem hard, but it also made it seem like you just pushed a button every so often.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_12]: Once in a while you would die.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_02]: They're also like cannibal shit.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_12]: And then remember when you had to hunt and it's like you're like shooting in a circle.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_12]: It's really hard to get those guys.

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_12]: Ben knows.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I was very into the American Girl.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, series.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm surprised.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_04]: People are always people are always fucking dying.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's part of why little girls.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Kirsten's best friend got collar or whatever.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_04]: She's fucking dead.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_12]: Might be one of the most tragic toy line of all time.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_12]: They should do that in Home Story.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_12]: Home Story.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon Story.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_12]: Toy Story.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_12]: Have some American Girl doll show up.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Mattel's saving that for its own movie.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they made one, didn't they?

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Kit Goodrich.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: American Girl.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But now they're doing some bigger.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Isn't it like Lena Dunham doing an American Girl?

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_04]: She's in Polly Pocket.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Never mind.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_00]: With Lily Collins, of course.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Hollywood onward and upward.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's also say Oregon Trail is being made as a comedy parody musical movie.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Great.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Pasek and Paul are writing an Oregon Trail comedy movie.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they should do that.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I love my soul leaving my body.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_12]: I want that to be released in my favorite cineplex.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_12]: Hell.

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_12]: All right.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Costner says, look, there was great injustice in the West.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_12]: And there was, but that doesn't minimize the courage it took for ancestors to cut loose

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_12]: and go out there.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Minimizes it a little bit, but whatever.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_12]: That's my editorializing.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_12]: But I do think that's kind of what Costner is going for with Horizon, colon, and American

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_12]: Saga, M-Chapter 1.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_12]: He's kind of like, what they were doing was kind of awful.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_12]: And they kind of were walking into death almost deservedly.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_12]: These people going far beyond America at that point.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_12]: Right?

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_12]: But at the same time, there's something stirring about it.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_12]: Right?

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_12]: They're going out.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, he's trying to balance an old Western and a neo-Western.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_12]: And it sort of works.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_00]: At times.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just get this out of the way.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_00]: 34 minutes into the episode.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_04]: That's it?

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Only 34 minutes?

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I think let's wrap it up.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Right?

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_12]: We've talked about the scene where Abby Lee fucks Costner.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_12]: And I feel like that's all we needed to cover.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_12]: Honk shoo.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_12]: Honk shoo.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_09]: No, I didn't say let's end things.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_00]: No, when do you want to get out of the way?

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: This is in many ways less of a movie than any movie we've ever covered on the show.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: As much as in many ways it's so much movie, it is almost impossible to actually engage

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: with this thing as a complete object because it isn't.

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It is the most incomplete.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_12]: It is essentially four to five.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_12]: Stories that begin and don't even really get to a middle.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_12]: And then the movie, the movie ends in that there is no longer pictures on the screen.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_12]: But the movie doesn't end like even with the kind of like looking over the horizon type

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_12]: Empire Strikes Back type.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, well, what awaits us next?

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_12]: It just stops telling the story.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't end with like lost style cliffhangers of like holy shit.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_05]: No, it ends with a sizzle reel.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I said out loud to Griffin.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_05]: This season on the horizon.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It does have a sizzle reel.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_00]: This montage begins at the end of the film that at first I was like, well, this is this

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of multi-part story ending that you're used to where they do a montage to just remind

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_00]: you where we're leaving all the characters.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_12]: Captain America does this.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Matrix Reloaded does this.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what it feels like.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like you're watching the montage that's like keeping tabs on everything.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So you bookmark place.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you realize you're seeing stuff from the next movie.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Which Maria asked.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_12]: Because there's like a new place.

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And then seasons are changing.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It goes on for like seven or eight minutes.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a mess.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I honestly, I'm not being rude here.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I almost thought it was the most gripping part of the movie.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It's 100% the most gripping part of the movie.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_12]: Which is a huge problem for the movie.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And we can, we can circle back to this and explain it.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I watched this thing and I'm just like, you feel like you've almost watched the prequel

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_00]: to a movie that doesn't exist yet.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I understand that we're watching like part one and he's telling us like, buckle up.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: This is, I'm going to take my time to spill this out.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But you're like, this feels like an entire movie, a backstory.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like three hours of watching someone read word for word, cover to cover the instructions

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: to a complicated board game.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, so next time we get to play, there are scenes in this that are super gripping.

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: There are character ideas.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00]: There are notions.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_00]: There are images that like got me.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But the whole time I'm watching it, I'm like, this is like the thing we need to get out of

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_00]: the way to figure out if he's actually pulling off what he's trying to do.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I, in theory, like the idea of spacing, giving yourself enough time to explore the fringes,

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_04]: the side characters.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_12]: Are you talking about their jackets?

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's watching this movie.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, oh my gosh, there are like people of color in it.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, okay, that seems interesting.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, we're going to talk about like Chinese immigrants building the railroad.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, like all this stuff gets like dangled.

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_12]: We're going to see them.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I'm like, even in terms of the, oh, we're going to spend a lot of time on the

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Native American perspective.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Are we?

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_12]: It's a storyline of five.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Four?

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_12]: More.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_12]: How many storylines are there?

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_04]: So we've got, we've got Kevin Costner, Abby Lee.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, that is not even one of the most important ones.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But no, but this is the thing.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there are like fragments of them where it's like, so are Annie Rano and Jenna Malone

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: are re-including that as part of the Costner, Abby Lee thread.

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But they have multiple scenes that don't engage.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And they have, they have separated.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Sienna Miller and her daughter are connected to the Worthington and Rooker.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the story.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_04]: But they also are connected to the Apache Tatanka means.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Like each, sort of.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_00]: There are like five main story groups, let's say.

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And within those groups, there are multiple strands and none of them intersect with each

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_00]: other.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, but some do, but like, so, okay, you have, there are really three main storylines,

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_12]: which are the settlers led by Sienna Miller, et cetera.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_12]: And they are attacked by Apaches and Sam Worthington eventually shows up to pick up the pieces.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_12]: There is Jenna Malone who has a baby, runs away from Wyoming, is chased by her husband.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think it's the guy she's having an affair with.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I thought she was the mistress.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_12]: Possibly.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_12]: I think you're right.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_12]: She kills the man.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Who she has a child with.

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_12]: But who seems like was sort of essentially abusing her.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Correct.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_11]: But I don't think that he dies.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_12]: He doesn't die.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_12]: No, he doesn't die.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_12]: She tries to kill him.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_00]: They also imply that their father was abusive.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_12]: Or did I misunderstand?

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_12]: That's their father.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_12]: That's their father.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_05]: He's the Sykes Patriot.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_05]: So there's like the Sykes family.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_12]: And their sons go after her.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_12]: And then, and then Abby Lee and Kevin Costner get mixed up into that plot.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_04]: So like, is Dale Dickey his wife?

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And Jenna Malone is the mistress.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And the bad boys are John Beavers and fucking.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Jamie Campbell Bauer.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Who's pretty, having a good time.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_12]: They're both having a good time.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_12]: John Beavers, who I spent 20, 25 minutes being like, Padalecki put on some weight.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, this guy looks rough and cool.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was Padalecki too.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_12]: It looks so much like Jerry Padalecki just kind of like hit a jam.

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_04]: What is it with this movie and like CW stars?

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_12]: And then the third storyline, my favorite storyline is, there's also randomly a wagon train we assume

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_12]: kind of heading towards horizon.

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_12]: Luke Wilson is there.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_12]: He's stressed out.

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_12]: There's some lowlifes.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_12]: There's some priggish, you know, rich people.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_12]: The entire movie could have been this for me.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I was most into that storyline too.

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_12]: There's sort of a floating fourth storyline that I actually struggled to keep track of,

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_12]: which is Jeff Fahey and his band of like scalp hunters.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Who kind of emerge out of the first storyline, right?

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_12]: And now they're kind of just going off on their own by the end.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_12]: The prologue.

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, this movie literally.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_12]: Forget the prologue.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_12]: Let's not even talk about that right now.

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_12]: We have to talk about that later.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_12]: I can't.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_12]: It's too stressful.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But also like, where is the Native American story?

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is when I got excited.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm saying that's, you would say that's sort of part of plot one,

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_12]: but really to me is its own thing.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_12]: Because there's complicated politics within that storyline.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_12]: So then that's four.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_12]: So I would really say four to five.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I just want the prologue thing, right?

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's a prologue.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_00]: This movie literally starts with a stake being driven into the ground, right?

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like a planter.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Like here's the new town.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_04]: On top of a bunch of crawling ants.

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_04]: This is Horizon.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Metaphor alert.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And here's where it will be.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Somewhere in Arizona.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: This sort of bookish man and his child sort of mapping out the land,

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_00]: measuring and building out.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So they're going to converge on this.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_00]: This is where we're ultimately heading.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you cut to two Apache children on a mountaintop,

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_00]: on a cliffside, let's say.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're sort of like, what are these guys doing?

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, they're setting out their land.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, what do you mean?

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not their land.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_00]: What does this mean?

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Putting a stake in the ground.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, this is interesting.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It is.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_00]: This is why this movie is interesting.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gripped by the movie at the beginning where I'm like,

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: is Kevin about to pull this off?

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Because here's the whole fucking back and forth I want,

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_00]: which is the idea of like this whole formation of a town thing.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Who owns the land?

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, what is this?

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_00]: This is all conceptual.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_00]: This is people saying it's my land because I'm telling you it's my land.

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You might still pull this up.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You might.

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we introduce this character of like a priest.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Who happens upon the decomposing body of the father and son.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Who is Angus McFadden?

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_00]: McFadden.

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Great actor.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And we, you know, I was like, ooh, it's dark.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_04]: It's, you know, this is crazy.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And then.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And then.

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_04]: The movie keeps going.

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, then we basically are like years later,

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_12]: this settlement has begun to flourish.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_12]: And there is an Apache raid led by like sort of a section of a pet.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_12]: Like we later learn like this is sort of like a politically unstable thing.

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Like the bad, the bad actors.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_12]: These people are more like, we need to just take this out.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_12]: We need to clear this out.

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_12]: Like rather than let it encroach.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_12]: And there are other people who are like, you're only going to bring.

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_12]: It's kind of the hot headed song.

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_12]: You're only going to bring.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_12]: Just hunk of means is kind of in the middle.

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_14]: But.

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_11]: It's.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_12]: Owen Crow shoe.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, sure.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Who's the one who's like, I'm going to get out there and get those guys.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_11]: But they have genuine motivation, which is that their food source.

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_12]: Is being disrupted by the settlement.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_12]: And the chief is basically like, look, if you.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_12]: Doing this will bring.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Bring.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_12]: You know, the essentially the army, the government, you know, white eyes.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_11]: They call correct.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_12]: Like the really, you know, being bring stuff upon us that we are not ready to deal with.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_12]: But.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, we have to do a whole movie out of this.

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm watching this and I'm like, I could watch 12 hours.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Griffin.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_10]: This is what Costner is thinking.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_10]: I know.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_10]: Because you just said that about the wagon train.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_10]: And I kind of agree with you on that, too.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a lot of things you could build movies out of here.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_11]: All of these storylines are interesting.

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_11]: I like the Worthington.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_11]: I like it, too.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_11]: Sienna Miller storyline.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_11]: That's actually my favorite.

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_11]: I think he's hot.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_11]: I think their relationship.

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm like, wait, I want to see this.

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_11]: It's nice seeing.

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_11]: It's nice seeing old potato head.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_04]: He got over her dead husband real fast.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_11]: I'd get over that guy.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Who sucks?

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Who cares?

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even get a character poster.

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_03]: He seemed brave.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_00]: There's like 40 of those.

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_00]: They're giving those things away.

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Costner would tell you, hey, back down.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_12]: You had to get over husbands quickly.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Costner might be coming around the corner and he's sleepy.

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the whole time I'm watching it, I have dances with wolves in the back of my head.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And the whole thing about like Mary McDonald needs to like be approved that she is done mourning her dead partner or whatever.

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_04]: To be able to fuck Kevin Costner.

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Different culture.

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Americans are not that classy.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_12]: We're always tossing people overboard and fucking planting stakes where they don't belong.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon and American Saga.

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Chapter one.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_12]: I'll get back to the dossier in a second, but just to complete the sort of, you know, it's like, like you said, there's this prologue and then this kind of like prologue part two with the priest.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_12]: And then we're in this settlement and I'm like, oh, OK, we're here.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_12]: All right.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_12]: I guess the movie has started.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_12]: And then it is an incredibly long and devastating sequence of like battle that you're kind of like, this is just going to keep going.

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Keep going.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_12]: And you see insane shit like this family gathering and like blowing up their tent.

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, you know, like obviously like Sienna Miller, like barricading and like, you know, running into this tunnel with her daughters and going crazy.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the perspective of the white people.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_00]: This is shot like it's the strangers.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very well done.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's scary.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But most of these sequences are like home invasion sequences.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_00]: It's that sort of language of that kind of horror movie.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_12]: What I love is that when Sam Worthington shows up like afterwards, he's like, what are you doing here?

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_12]: You don't belong here.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_12]: It's not your land.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_12]: We can't protect you here.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_12]: Some crazy European sold you land that he didn't own.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, you can't just be here.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, we'll try to help you get out, you know, to safety.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_12]: Safety.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_12]: But like, I like that Costner immediately gives us the, you know, the people who are furthest west in the American government.

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_12]: The people in the forts that are all in the Midwest and stuff are just like, this is way further than we are.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_12]: And you can't like, yeah, you can't just assume that you can fucking put a tent here and be like, I own it now.

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And it also introduces this thread that we get some payoff at the ending of these mysterious flyers.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_12]: Which, Rippisi, obviously, searching for unobtainium.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The twist of the end.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We assume it's Rippisi, right?

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we see in the trailer.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a montage.

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_00]: They're building up the intensity of everything that's to come.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And the camera's pushing in on the back of a man looking out a window.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And you realize these flyers you've been seeing the whole movie that are driving all our characters, we assume, nine hours from now will all arrive in Horizon.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And all the plot threads will meet.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_00]: The man who's been building the flyers, who's been printing them at his own printing press is Giovanni Ribisi.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And I turned to Murray and went, he's the Thanos.

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I hate to just use the same six pop culture references over and over again, but Costner drops it with this intensity of, I bet you wonder where the flyers are coming from.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And Ribisi looking out the window has the intensity of him being like, I'm five infinity stones away from my gauntlet.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_04]: He's like the mastermind.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's very clearly in an urban setting somewhere.

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_04]: He's not out there in the West.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm like, okay.

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_12]: He's kind of driving people out there.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_12]: He's a classic Western intellectual villain.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Which I'm like, ooh, I love this.

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm immediately like, I've been wrestling with this movie the whole time.

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I get to that reveal and I'm like, God, I'm excited to see chapter two.

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, what if he's not even in chapter three?

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_12]: No, because they filmed chapter two.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_12]: And he's in it.

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_12]: And he's filmed parts of three.

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_12]: He started three, although it seems like he's kind of doing it with his own money.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And so like, who knows what that means?

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing a kind of Eraserhead style piecemeal over weekends.

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_00]: He started his press tour for this movie and he was rocking the mustache and the weird haircut

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_00]: of Hayes Ellison.

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, clearly he must truly be filming chapter three right now.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And you get to the banana shake video and he looks like classic Kevin Costner.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, you're saying you're filming this now, but you've been doing 18 interviews

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_00]: an hour for the last two months.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_12]: And you don't look like your character.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_12]: When he wants to sell a movie, he doesn't have acid.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_12]: He is trying out here.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_04]: He's been like going to like small markets and like appearing on like local.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_04]: He's been doing everything.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like been going full P.T. Barnum.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Like my circus is coming to your town.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Except it's like P.T. Barnum who fucks, which I guess is what The Greatest Showman was.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_12]: But anyway, Kevin Costner.

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_12]: I just want to give you this quote.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going back to the dossier a little bit.

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_12]: I realized the content was four movies.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_12]: It's like when I did Hatfields and McCoys.

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_12]: They thought it was two nights.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_12]: I said it was four.

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_12]: I feel like every scene that was written in Hatfields and McCoys.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm saying this to the executive at the time.

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Then it's four nights.

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, we only do two nights.

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_12]: And I said it's only going to be two nights.

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not going to be able to be in it because I'm not going to have all these scenes edited

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_12]: because they'll go away.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_12]: Kevin Costner.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_12]: He's like it's like inside out or something.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_12]: He's like if you don't shoot the scenes, they vanish and then they're dead.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Why would you just make one horizon when you could put all of the stories into four horizons?

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I saw him on The Rich Eisen Show, my secret favorite talk show.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I love The Rich Eisen Show despite not liking sports.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_12]: I agree with you that Rich Eisen is a good professional interviewer.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Rich Eisen's kind of my guy.

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Were you familiar with Rich Eisen from the I Love the Decades?

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm sure that endeared me to him.

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But also, you have to remember that my entire childhood was fighting every day, every morning,

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_00]: every night for control of the television.

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And James just wanted my brother James.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_00]: He just wanted to watch SportsCenter.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And I very early on was like Rich Eisen and Stuart Scott are fun.

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_00]: If they are on SportsCenter.

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like 5% engaged with what's happening because these two guys I find funny and charismatic.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So I always, I think, had an affinity for him.

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I Love the Decades probably just intensified that.

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I really like when he has movie stars on his show.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Because he likes movies.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_00]: He's a big movie fan.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_12]: He actually cares.

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But he, Eisen said like, I've heard you say that you don't think you're a very good director

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_00]: to Costner for how bullheaded Costner is.

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And Costner was like, look, like, you know, I mean, it's just like not my primary identity.

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And Eisen was like, but you won best director.

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You beat Goodfellas.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, there's no doubt that like Scorsese knows how to use his camera better than I do.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I think my primary function as a director is I know story.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I know drama.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I know character.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I know what I want these stories to be.

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_00]: He did say I'm TNT.

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also very funny.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_00]: He is TNT.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_00]: He's basic cable.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's, he is basic cable.

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But he presented it as like, I think my main value as a director and why I choose to direct

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_00]: movies sometimes is like as a wedge to use my power as a movie star to make sure no one

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_00]: stops the way I think the story needs to be told.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And it always breaks down into this shit with him where he's just like,

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_00]: you need these 20% of scenes that everyone else would cut.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You need the length.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You need the runtime.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It is very weird watching this movie that feels like it's all sort of like appendix backstory

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_00]: information.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a three hour film.

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the first of four.

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_00]: That also feels kind of rushed at times.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it goes really fast.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're like jarring about.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a quote in the dossier where he was like, I really wanted to be deliberate and

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_04]: not rush the introduction.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_12]: Like the and I'm like, it isn't or there's action at least where you're like, wow, this

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_12]: is happening.

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, I think this is the argument we made for open range in our episode.

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said this to Maria as I was selling her on why I think she'll like open range a lot.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a very simple story that could be told in 85 minutes.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And the extra hour that Costner is fighting for there is all just letting you live in

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_00]: the details, the character moments, the depth, the specificity.

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Somehow you're watching Horizon and he's like saying like, I need 12 hours to tell the story.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're going, did you actually need 20?

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Or did you write a 20 hour story that you're now scrunching into 12?

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Look, my hope is that Horizon Part 2, which has been made in 20 hours, is kind of a season

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_12]: of television.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Can I just ask a really quick question about that?

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Reviewers at Cannes saw both?

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_00]: No, they just saw Part 1.

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_04]: They just saw Part 1.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_04]: So no one's seen?

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_00]: No one has seen Part 2.

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I assume somebody's seen it, but not me and not critics.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_00]: OK.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_00]: No, they just screened Part 1.

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_04]: That seems stupid to me.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Because he's saying.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's all they had done.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_00]: He's saying, hopefully I'm back at Cannes with Part 3.

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_00]: He's presenting a universe in which Part 1 and Part 2 come out one summer.

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Part 2, Part 3 and Part 4 come out one summer.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_04]: They only screened Part 1?

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_00]: This is exactly what they saw.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You can't.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_04]: OK.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I just feel like you.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Marie, this is what they released.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I know, but I feel like you can't.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It just feels like so clearly part of a whole.

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it does.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_05]: More so than any other movie I've ever seen.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_10]: That is why this movie is weird.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_10]: What you just said is true.

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_10]: Sorry, Ben.

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm excited to go back.

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_11]: That's the thing.

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_10]: Will you go at 10 p.m. though?

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_10]: Never again.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to have to make a point.

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to have to.

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Someone's going to have to sacrifice.

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to have to do it together.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_12]: No, we have to do it together.

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_12]: Costner does fund the movie himself a little bit.

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_12]: He does get a couple of mysterious financial backers to put up some money.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Saudi people.

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I just remember Tim Simons, dear friend of the show.

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_00]: World's greatest texter.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_00]: During the filming of draft day, being like, he has a lot more money than we realize.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He has a lot of money.

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_00]: There was just this feeling of not just like, oh, clearly he has a lot of money.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_00]: He's a movie star who is very successful.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_00]: There was just always this vibe where he would invoke certain things where it's like, he clearly invested his money.

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, saved it.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, put it into certain things where just assets would get referenced sometimes.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And it also just feels like he like runs in very wealthy circles.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't feel like he has movie friends that much.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You never hear about like.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_12]: He's not in Hollywood.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_00]: He hangs out in Montana and Wyoming or whatever.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, that's where he is.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're just sort of quiet billionaires that I think he's friends with who he got to pitch in.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And he put up apparently a couple of quote unquote Middle Eastern businessmen also put some money in.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_12]: And I don't know.

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_12]: I'd love to see those meetings, though.

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_12]: Costs are being like, rise.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_00]: The most interesting thing about this movie is that he does own it outright.

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And so much of his argument, there's obviously been an immediate doomsdaying of like this movie's opening weekend was bad.

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_00]: He kept bullshit.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But he this is what he's always said.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think he's right about this.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like people view the cost of a movie as a bet on the opening weekend.

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It's an asset.

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It has a life of its own.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_00]: If you make this thing correctly, it lives forever.

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like in his mind, whatever version of this movie, whatever version demands, you know, how many parts he actually completes.

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a movie he gets to like resell every three years.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, beyond that, I mean, I sell it again to streaming services into television on DVD and whatever it is like these contracts will just renew.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_12]: The reaction to like the box office of Horizon is just so demonstrative of how poorly the trades can handle box office reporting at this point.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_12]: Where they're like, the $100 million movie opened to 11, like small.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm like, the film cost $100 mil for two, not one.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_12]: $50 million can be your number for one part.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Number two, like, he owns the movie outright.

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_12]: No one is like this is a passion project.

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_12]: This is not some Warner Brothers like stock razor.

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like so upfront that he's like, I didn't do this as a bet to get rich.

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It was driving me crazy not making this movie.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think there is especially guys like him and Coppola.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And I even would put like a fucking Seinfeld's unfrosted.

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And some of these weird passion projects made by incredibly rich, incredibly famous old men.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Who have no reason to, you know, put anything on the line.

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Why?

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And what's fascinating is them making these weird misshapen things.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, you thought this would be commercial.

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, these guys didn't think this would be commercial.

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Seinfeld got Netflix to give him money and probably laughed all the way to the bank.

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do think there is a commonality that I don't see being discussed.

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll hear it in other areas of like the arts world.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But guys of a certain age who I think during the pandemic were like, what if I never got

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_00]: to make anything ever again?

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's probably driving it a little bit.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: What is the thing I've been too scared to bet on or that always feels a little out of

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_00]: reach or I'm not ready for?

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're seeing now when it's like, why is there all this energy in the air of

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_00]: these guys who could be retired instead taking their biggest swings?

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think it's all these guys were just like, well, if I die tomorrow, what's my regret

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: in my career?

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Eddie Murphy talks about that.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Eddie Murphy.

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_04]: In that profile in the Times.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: What a normal guy that is.

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Super normal.

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Love him.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_12]: Is like, wait, you should make this like this is really funny and this is so perfect for

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_12]: you.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_12]: And he's like, I don't know if everyone would like it, though.

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's his reaction.

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But then in that same interview, he's like, how much do you think about your audience?

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I don't serve the audience at all.

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care.

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I do whatever I think is funny.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_05]: He sounds like six different contradictory things.

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_05]: He's fascinating.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_12]: He's obviously intelligent.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_12]: He has made amazing movies.

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_12]: I hear this new one is good, which is great news.

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_12]: But that interview is so telling of like, what a weird funhouse mirror his brain is.

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_09]: But look, these.

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_12]: And then moments like when Marchese is like, Bowfinger is one of your best works.

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_12]: He's like, anyone could have done Bowfinger.

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_12]: And it's like, absolutely.

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_04]: No.

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_04]: No one could.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_04]: I was the only person who could have done all of those clumps.

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Mark is like, oh, that term.

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_04]: That's so much hard to say.

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Comedians in cars getting coffee where he's like, fundamentally, at the end of the day,

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a comedian.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That's my primary identity.

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And Murphy's like, what?

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a comedian.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't done stand-up in years.

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's like, then what are you?

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, a very sensitive artist.

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, why do you think your career has sustained?

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, because I'm very funny all the time.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_12]: But this is, I mean.

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_12]: He also says Pluto and Ash is the only bad movie he ever did.

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, earlier he says he's had a handful of flops.

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when he's litigating, he's like.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_12]: He's like, Pluto and Ash is really the only piece of shit.

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, he does start kind of like differentiating.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_12]: And you're like, Eddie, Pluto and Ash might not even be one of your five worst movies.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Like.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I've still never seen that.

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But like, there's so much competition.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But here is the point.

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_00]: This is why we're not going off subject here.

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Costner and Eddie experienced a similar level of fame, a similar level of you control Hollywood.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You can do anything.

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone is begging you for your attention, for your time.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So like sprinkle a little bit of your magic dust on everything.

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I do think that fundamentally warps people's brains.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you cannot hit the absolute top of the mountain and like come back down to normal altitude ever again.

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Even if your star wanes, even if your status changes, the perception around you changes.

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: If you make it to the top, it does kind of like rewire you.

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And you watch both of these guys and the way they talk about themselves and their career and what they want to do and who they aren't.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You start to build these like weird walls around yourself.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of Eddie Murphy is clearly him protecting his like very apparent vulnerability.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: He's a sensitive guy.

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: As he says.

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: No question.

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And Costner has just always been like, I just have to like true north know exactly who I am and not listen to anybody.

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I last for decades.

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_04]: There was an interesting comment on our Reddit about Yellowstone.

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like the perception of Costner's relationship to Yellowstone.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_00]: People assuming that Horizon would be a big hit because his audience would roll out.

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_04]: But that actually Taylor Sheridan and the Yellowstone enterprise saved Costner.

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_12]: I saw that post.

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_12]: I did not totally agree with it.

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it raises some interesting points.

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is true that people like us who talk about Yellowstone and people in the industry who talk about the Yellowstone phenomenon largely do not watch Yellowstone.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I've watched Yellowstone.

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't it just like succession?

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Not much because it was awful.

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So my mom watched the like.

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_12]: I think Costner was crucial to that movie.

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_12]: That show having a big footprint.

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_12]: Landing with prestige.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And as the show has gone on, he's become less and less central to the show in terms of the narrative.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: The ensemble's got larger.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_12]: And obviously Sheridan has built out this Empire spinoffs and all that.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_09]: But he's right.

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_12]: And what if Sylvester Stallone ran a bar?

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Let's talk about it.

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Costner.

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like cowboy archetype.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very Dallas.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: He's JR.

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I agree.

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: There's not a straight line between them.

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And Chris Ryan was saying in the big picture episode, like there is this version of Costner being strategic that is like stay on Yellowstone.

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Every one season of Yellowstone you do further could basically fund another horizon.

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Possibly.

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Like space them out, this and that.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I get where he's coming from.

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Not that we need to give a ton of fucking time to the whole like Costner, Yellowstone fallout.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But it is like no one should ever make a TV show shit that I think got fucked up even further than the pandemic.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Where and and and the the Sheridan Empire expanding and now he's running like 20 shows and he claims he writes every single episode himself.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were just like they kept saying, hey, you're on hold.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to film the next season in four months.

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they get to four months and they go, we're going to push it back another six months.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And Costner's like, I'm sitting around.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing nothing.

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm nearing 70.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I have to fucking make this.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_12]: That is so much.

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_12]: The big thing in his press tour for this, it's part of it is, yeah, a lot of money.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm spending a lot of money.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_12]: I can't deny.

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_12]: And the other part is like, I had to do this.

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_12]: I was running out of time.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_12]: And there's this line he has about like, I saw my son and I was like, I have to make this.

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_12]: He's 13 now.

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_12]: I want him to play the 13 year old.

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_12]: Exactly.

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I knew his son was in the movie, but I had never seen a picture of him before.

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_04]: You clocked him immediately.

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's one one face I knew.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, that's definitely a little Costner, isn't it?

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_11]: Can I guess?

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_11]: Because I don't think I know, but you get a character post.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_11]: Is it the boy who rides the horses and gets away?

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's Sienna Miller's son.

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, wow.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_11]: Yep.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_11]: Yep.

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you if you Google Kevin Costner, Kittredge, high school, and it kind of looks just like him.

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_12]: There's so many Kittredges because there's Kit Kittredge and American Girl.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_12]: Exactly.

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_12]: And then there's so there's Sienna.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Apparently Orphan is a sorry.

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I keep referring to Isabel Furman as orphan.

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, she is orphan.

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Because she's orphan.

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_04]: But her last name is Kittredge.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_12]: As is Will Patton's.

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_12]: So it's like there's Kittredges everywhere, you know, coming towards each other.

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a movie that could use that's a future episode.

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But a Lynch's Dune style glossary pamphlet in theaters standing or a pamphlet.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And not not to just repeat everything big picture said.

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And usually I'm against things that are this didactic.

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But like they made the argument, does this movie need like fucking Game of Thrones map transitions?

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: There's so many action movies we watch where you cut to the Eiffel Tower and then a chyron says Paris, France.

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, yeah, I'm not a fucking idiot.

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to tell me we're in Paris, France now.

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: When the line before this was we're going to Paris and the first line after you're in Paris was so this is Paris.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But this is a movie where I could use a greater visual sort of like template for letting me know where characters are in time and space.

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Because every time they're just sort of like this region this year, I'm like, I can't remember where we were before.

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm so respectful of the movie going experience.

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Much like Kevin Costner.

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_12]: And Ben Hosley, of course.

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I think, you know, the only.

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I did have my phone open during Skin and Mering because I like had trouble.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you were also hiding in a.

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I was hiding in my jacket.

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You told us you were inside your coat.

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_04]: But I had to open fucking Wikipedia.

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_04]: You were cross-durping.

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: During this movie.

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_04]: To keep track of who everyone was.

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I was just trying to raw dog it like the world's bravest airplane.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_12]: My friend wrote that story.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_12]: And when she told me about it, I was like, that is everyone is going to be talking about.

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_12]: So.

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_12]: It is the ultimate are men okay story.

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_04]: What is this?

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_04]: We tried for my other job.

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_04]: We tried to do our own thing with that.

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And we were really proud of our post.

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And it got taken down by PR.

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, can't be raw dog and nothing on official social media sites.

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say this.

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I went into as like, I got to commit to just trying to engage with this thing just

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_00]: as what it is.

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It had helped me that you and a lot of other people I know had told me, hey, this thing

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: is like shapeless.

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It's him throwing a bunch of shit at you.

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It has no ending.

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Threads are like picked up and dropped in seemingly like absolutely chaotic order.

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was not trying to wrestle my understanding of this movie to fit into how I normally.

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_12]: Perceive stories that are told visually to you.

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_12]: In a theater.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But it is a, you know, who is who and what is what we, we introduced the screening of

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: cloud.

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I was about to bring that up.

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_00]: A film I had not seen on the big screen since it came out.

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It was my third time seeing the movie period.

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie, you saw it for the first time.

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you had the reaction.

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Most people have to cloud Alice the first time, which is like, but I do think that movie very

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: skillfully, even just from the beginning interweaves the plots where when you're moving

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: between six very different storylines directed by three different people.

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: In two different combinations with different styles and different sensibilities.

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It does from the beginning make you feel like they're all in the same movie.

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_04]: But they also have the advantage of having very different visual languages.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So you know where you are.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Totally.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_12]: And also they do this interesting thing that you guys might not have picked up on, which

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_12]: is the use the same actors in every storyline, but they're wearing makeup and stuff.

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_12]: It is subtle.

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Like Tom Hanks actually plays the gangster who throws someone off.

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if you noticed that was Tom Hanks.

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: The Irish guy?

[01:09:40] [SPEAKER_02]: He's not Irish.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But it doesn't feel like a cockney gangster.

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't feel like there's a schematic like we go story one, story two, story three,

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: through to six and then back to one.

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And the book is organized in a specific order.

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I think Sienna Miller could have played Jamie Campbell Bauer.

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Could have played Hayes.

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Could have played both people in the shootout.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, we're doing a Cloud Atlas.

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm kidding.

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Cloud Atlas will like cut between them.

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: It'll keep you in one story for a while.

[01:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Go back to another one.

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But it'll also have these moments where they're sort of shaking hands and you're seeing the

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: echoes.

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Obviously, that's textually part of Cloud Atlas as a story.

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Beautifully done.

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_12]: But as Marie says, of course, it does have the advantage of all the stories looked

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: different.

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not saying you should have done it.

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just because that's another film with multiple threads that I saw recently at an

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: epic length.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Costner.

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't do that.

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: He just like and he doesn't break them into totally isolated segments.

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But the stories aren't really commenting on each other.

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: He's just setting up things in motion.

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, are they?

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like trying to think because like in Cloud Atlas, it's like, OK, there's there's

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_04]: like a different archetypes in each plot line.

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_04]: But I guess it's not.

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like.

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the whole cloud Atlas does those montages where it's like sort of hero characters

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: at similar moments.

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of emotional arcing.

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't think that's there.

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_04]: No, none of this is happening in Horizon.

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's a great quote from Kevin Costner.

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm saying Horizon does none of them.

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Kevin Costner.

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_12]: Why did he direct the film?

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Why not let someone else do it?

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_12]: He's never meddled with the director, for example.

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_12]: Might be a great choice by him.

[01:11:11] [SPEAKER_12]: But Kevin Costner can protect the little stuff.

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_12]: This is his argument on the Rich Eyes, I'm sure.

[01:11:15] [SPEAKER_12]: I felt like this movie has a tone and it has to be maintained.

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know that I could have lived with myself if I saw scenes where a female character

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_12]: is bathing and someone said, we need to cut that out because women's desire to be clean

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_12]: and keep their families clean was utmost.

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's why he included.

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_12]: OK, that's the sensuality or just a plain idea.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Can I get this dirt off me?

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_12]: He turned into a sensual moment in the film until it was busted by a voyeuristic situation

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_12]: and we suddenly saw the scene for what it was, which is that they ruined it.

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Him talking is a roller coaster.

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_12]: That's also the wildest example he could choose.

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_12]: Women want to be clean in all times.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Marie, can you confirm?

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_12]: Women be clean.

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, that women's desire to be clean and keep their families clean was utmost.

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_11]: You don't have to answer this question.

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_12]: It's so crazy that he's just like, they tried to cut the peeping Tom scene, but I'm here

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_12]: to protect it.

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_12]: I, Kevin Costner, director of film.

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_12]: And that scene is actually really interesting.

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's interesting for the menace that it presents, but not for the first part of

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: it.

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_12]: What do you mean?

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_12]: That scene is clearly until the menace about women's desire to keep themselves clean throughout

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_12]: history or whatever.

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_12]: That scene actually rocks.

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_04]: The other women in this movie are dirty as hell.

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_12]: Isabel Furman especially.

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_12]: Loving her look.

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_12]: But that scene rocks, not the peeping Tom scene itself, but the Luke Wilson confronting

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_12]: them scene where you're like, this has juice.

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, this is crazy.

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_11]: I thought it reminded you of how hard it is.

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_11]: And it's, you're dirty and it's hot.

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_11]: You're on a fucking wagon train and you stink.

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think the conservation of water, like this is always, this is something that's

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_04]: really, really interesting.

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_04]: But like, he already introduces the conservation of water part with when she takes the cup

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_04]: of water and treats it like it's a water delivery service.

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's like, we already get that.

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_04]: So, I mean, I don't know.

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I think like that sequence, especially all the fallout of it, Luke Wilson.

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_13]: Come on, man.

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: This is annoying for me.

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Costner shootout with Jane B. Campbell Bauer.

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_00]: The raid at the beginning of the film we're talking about.

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_04]: You missed this part, but I liked the scene when Sienna Miller squashes some scorpions with

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_04]: a boot.

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: That was fun.

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_12]: I think I did see that.

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_12]: No, you were away from it.

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_12]: There's also the big shootout.

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_12]: I thought there was just a mother squashing that.

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_12]: She's always squashing.

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_12]: Women have been squashing throughout history.

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Women be squashing.

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Women be bathing.

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Women be squashing.

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_12]: Since women stood up right, they have squashed to protect their families.

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_11]: Griffin, you missed it.

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_11]: They invent squashing.

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, that's cool.

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_12]: And she changes her name to Lady Squash.

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_12]: It's crazy.

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_12]: There's also the big crazy, like, horseback battle in the end with Jeff Faye and all that.

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: That they largely cut away from.

[01:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And you watch the boy watching.

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's kind of a cool.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but the sort of pressure cooker standoff in the general.

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The general.

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that scene was really intense.

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: The four sequences in the movie that are undeniably gripping are the ones that are most conventionally

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: playing by the Western playbook.

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_00]: They are scenes that feel like they could come out of any Western.

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's your classic two guys squint at each other and the tension builds.

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And is it going to boil over or not?

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_00]: What's a little interesting is that in two of the big cases, he avoids the conflict.

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It does feel like he's letting it simmer.

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But like in those moments, the movie is fucking cooking with gas.

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not him dissecting the Western and the mythology.

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: That's not him getting into the types of scenes that movies wouldn't have time to cover.

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's him hitting the big scenes.

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_12]: He hits the big scenes well.

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_12]: But I was often intrigued by smaller scenes like the Luke Wilson confrontation.

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_12]: Like the conversation between Tatanka Means and, you know, the chief.

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, you know, like there's even the Jenna Malone stuff, which was the most Twin Peaks The Return coded stuff.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_12]: I did refer to that in my review.

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_12]: You've seen Twin Peaks The Return.

[01:15:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Nope.

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Nobody's seen it.

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_12]: We'll all be watching.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_12]: We will be watching.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_12]: We'll be watching around the time this drops.

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm making my way through season two of Twin Peaks Now.

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Which David Lynch undeniably did basically make as like one big giant thing that he then like cut into pieces.

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_12]: Does kind of have this quality where it's suddenly you're just cutting to an entirely new thing that's not seemingly connected to anything.

[01:15:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.

[01:15:26] [SPEAKER_12]: With a Luke Wilson type actor that you recognize.

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_12]: And it's jarring and puts you out of place and is kind of cool.

[01:15:37] [SPEAKER_10]: In Twin Peaks, often very cool.

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_10]: In Horizon, maybe often more just jarring.

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_10]: But the experience is interesting and unusual.

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_12]: Right?

[01:15:48] [SPEAKER_12]: Why am I watching Luke Wilson right now?

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_12]: He wasn't here before.

[01:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And now is he important?

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's two hours in.

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Is this a cameo?

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Or is this guy someone I'm going to spend time with over the next couple years of these movies getting released?

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_12]: In Cloud Atlas, say, it's like, well, I'm like, oh, I know this is going to kind of relate to another story somehow.

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_12]: They all have handshakes.

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_12]: In Horizon, I'm like, all I know is they generally are kind of going in Horizon.

[01:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only thing really linking these.

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Where you're like, is he doing something that's almost abstract?

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Or is this just sloppiness?

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_12]: That's why it always you will wrestle within me, Horizon, in American Saga Chapter 1.

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_10]: Like the Michael Anagaro, is that how you say his name?

[01:16:27] [SPEAKER_12]: Angarano.

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Angarano.

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_10]: And Jenna Malone.

[01:16:29] [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, like that whole sequence.

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_12]: It's suddenly out of nowhere.

[01:16:32] [SPEAKER_12]: He's like, well, gentlemen, if I could just sell you my house.

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_12]: They're like, we mean to shoot you.

[01:16:36] [SPEAKER_12]: And he's like, well, scuttle that.

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_12]: And here's the documents.

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_12]: Like he's not even listening to them.

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's such a weird, funny scene.

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also dark.

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Is this transgressive or are we projecting something onto this?

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_12]: So that's a good call on late Clint traditionalism.

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_12]: Clint is really good at setting out an idea.

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_12]: And communicating it really simply and effectively.

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_12]: And like sometimes the idea is perhaps that choo-choo, what happened here?

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_12]: There was a railroad and it went right through somebody.

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:17:12] [SPEAKER_04]: But he also, I think, is just better at like this movie, even though we're talking about

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_04]: little scenes, I'm not really getting as much of the texture.

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Couldn't he sort of see a better director?

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_04]: No question.

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_04]: No, no.

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_12]: I agree with you.

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_12]: But I know what Griffin means about like you're engaging with something that's so traditional

[01:17:31] [SPEAKER_12]: or straightforward or whatever that you do.

[01:17:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it a horseshoe theory?

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It's gotten so complicated that yes, it's horseshoed all the way around where I look at

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: this and I'm like, it's insane that he's not building this in a way where the pieces

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: add up to something greater.

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And you maybe will.

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, right.

[01:17:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's the part of it which is like, is it too soon to say, which that makes it

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: impossible to talk about this movie in the present moment.

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But I see people arguing like this thing's either just like a drafts folder that he's

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: just relaying to me in some chaotic order or there is something daring in him not choosing

[01:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: to spoon feed it to you in a way.

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's like, are we now narrativizing what is in fact?

[01:18:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I am so jealous of the listeners who will get to because these are coming up back to back,

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_04]: right?

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to this as because all our crap now fucking break.

[01:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not.

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We're having them back to back.

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Great.

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_12]: No, just moved up.

[01:18:25] [SPEAKER_12]: It actually made it easier.

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Next week is going to be fascinating for you folks.

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, it's five weeks in the future for us.

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:18:32] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon and American Saga chapter one.

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_12]: So what haven't we talked about here?

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_12]: Not that I'm saying we're wrapping it up.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm more like.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_12]: So we talked about the first chunk.

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So I will attack.

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_04]: But just another thing to add on to the attack is I my favorite scene in Dances with Wolves

[01:18:51] [SPEAKER_04]: that obviously it's Buffalo.

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And that is a scene that I think is just like really you feel you feel the texture of it.

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think the closest he gets to that in this is when they're in the dirt.

[01:19:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We were all a little perplexed by Dances with Wolves.

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But I've seen it before.

[01:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: That's inarguably.

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm saying in that episode, in our watching it again for this show.

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that is the inarguable thing, though, is like that movie has a sweep.

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It has a style.

[01:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It has an emotion.

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But it has a detail.

[01:19:28] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's also it's also like an experiential moment where you as the viewer are like actually

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_04]: you're feeling what the characters.

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And I thought the claustrophobia and terror of Sienna Miller and her daughter in The Little

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Hideout.

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Particularly the getting the shotgun through.

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I was very.

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, man.

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_04]: In it.

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in that.

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_04]: This is going to be like that her crawling out of it.

[01:19:55] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, but that was a I was like, all right, I want more of that.

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But this goes back to the core thing for me of like he's made a lot of movies where

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone else is like this is a 90 minute story.

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, no, it's a three hour story.

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's allowing you to live in those details versus this feeling like a 20 hour season

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: of television squished down to 12 hours.

[01:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're losing those details at times when those details do come up, when there is a

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: moment that feels more visceral, then I'm like excited.

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of it I was just sort of like this is all just information he's trying to he's

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: laying so much fucking track and I don't know what's going to like return the investment

[01:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: or not.

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I was not bored watching this film.

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I was a little less engaged than I wish I could have been.

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to be fully gripped more often.

[01:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I let go of the rope at times.

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_12]: There are scenes where I'm just kind of like, OK, you know, and then there are other scenes

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_12]: where I was very engaged, such as like the showdown with Michael Ingarano.

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_12]: Like suddenly I was just like, this is this is a crazy dynamic.

[01:21:05] [SPEAKER_12]: And what is this?

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_12]: The Faye general store scene.

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: That general store scene.

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Two and a half hours movie into the movie.

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that the first time we're seeing Faye in the whole film?

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Possibly.

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[01:21:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[01:21:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we saw him before.

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_04]: They did have that moment in when they're deciding to like, oh, some of us are going to go off and

[01:21:25] [SPEAKER_04]: get revenge.

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_11]: Can we explain that a little bit more?

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_11]: I was so confused.

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So that sequence is the kid who wrote away who Ben thought was Costner.

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_04]: So that kid is orphaned by the raid we see in the beginning of the movie.

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And as they are, as the settlers are taking stock of what they've just experienced.

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And then the the Union Army comes with Michael Rooker and Sam Worthington.

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_04]: They're like, you know, you guys, we're going to bring you to our outpost where you'll be

[01:21:59] [SPEAKER_04]: safe.

[01:21:59] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not safe for you here.

[01:22:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And you guys were stupid to settle here.

[01:22:02] [SPEAKER_04]: But we're going to we're going to move you guys back.

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_11]: We can't defend you.

[01:22:07] [SPEAKER_11]: If you decide to stay here, we can't defend you.

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_04]: So so the group of settlers splinters.

[01:22:13] [SPEAKER_04]: The women and children go and like, yeah, we out.

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_04]: They're like, we're going to be with Sam Worthington.

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_12]: And then that potato head.

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_12]: They just it's so easy to follow it.

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_12]: How can you not?

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Exactly.

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Not the squarest.

[01:22:28] [SPEAKER_12]: As long as exactly as long as the sun's in the sky, the shadow it casts.

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And then there's a a faction of the group, all men.

[01:22:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And I guess it's supposed to mirror the faction of the group of the Apache who who are kind

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_04]: of like the raid in the first place.

[01:22:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's escalate.

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Like we're going to escalate.

[01:22:46] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to get revenge on.

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to avenge our lost family members and fellow white people.

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_12]: There's quote unquote scalp hunting because they're like, we're going to get money for

[01:22:56] [SPEAKER_12]: every person we kill.

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_12]: You know, like they're talking about it amongst themselves.

[01:22:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Like a scalp currency.

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And they even talk about basically scalp counterfeiting where they're like, you find an Italian guy

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that's dark enough that we.

[01:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:23:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Some other, you know.

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_12]: I think Costner is trying to show you like how this is building to like all out war.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[01:23:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Rather than like maybe there's a way we can all share.

[01:23:18] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[01:23:19] [SPEAKER_11]: Like zero honor to it.

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, certainly.

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_12]: It's just disgusting.

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_12]: On the settler.

[01:23:24] [SPEAKER_12]: American side.

[01:23:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, exactly.

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_04]: You see it through the eyes of the young boy who is like, you know, trying a young person

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_04]: trying to be a man.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And but also like what path is he going to go down?

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, is he going to choose violence?

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Is he going to be turn away from violence?

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, like we see him not shoot the father and son in the general store when given the

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_04]: opportunity.

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_11]: But what what what did the father think was going to happen that he was going to miss

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_11]: in that scene?

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I think.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Why is he not running for his life?

[01:23:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Because the guy whispering to him who can speak Apache, the translator, was like making

[01:23:58] [SPEAKER_04]: a judgment that the kid wasn't going to go through with it, that it was going like stand

[01:24:02] [SPEAKER_04]: your ground.

[01:24:03] [SPEAKER_04]: The kid's not going to do it.

[01:24:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So he the guy just like guessed that the kid wouldn't shoot.

[01:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: What's interesting about that scene is you're trying to figure out if he's trying to psych

[01:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: out the Apache in order to save his son's life so he can get the first shot.

[01:24:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But in reality, I think he was making correct judgment call.

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is I swear this is not me just saying it from the fucking vantage point of

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: being like a woke liberal on a mic.

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But I just feel the narrative imbalance on the perspective in this movie, especially relative

[01:24:32] [SPEAKER_00]: to the prologue where I'm like, well, if this is all about the land, then this is I want

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: to see more of a back and forth versus it feeling like we are like 80 to 90 percent settler

[01:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: perspective.

[01:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: 10 percent like indigenous perspective, maybe 15 if you want to be super generous.

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And any time the movie kind of shadows the two sides, it feels like it's getting at something.

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm saying about like, right.

[01:24:59] [SPEAKER_12]: If there's really three big storylines, they're kind of half of one.

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_12]: And then the other two obviously are so far completely disconnected.

[01:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And half of one is even being a little generous.

[01:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd say it's maybe a fourth of the one.

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.

[01:25:15] [SPEAKER_11]: But the trail storyline could use a counterpoint.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_11]: Correct.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_11]: Because there are there are indigenous characters that are introduced.

[01:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we're going to get to part three and there's going to be fucking 90 straight minutes.

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know.

[01:25:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is why it's impossible to talk about it.

[01:25:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's also the reason to like fucking make this movie in 2024 is like this is what

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: they wouldn't have done in the 40s.

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we watch Dances with Wolves now and it feels a little like slight on this scale.

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Paternalistic.

[01:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But you read reviews at the time and people were just like there has been no American

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Western that has spent this much time in the perspective of the Native American.

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I get why.

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: At the time it was seen as revolutionary.

[01:25:56] [SPEAKER_04]: It was like the important movie.

[01:25:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It is weird that this movie does less than the movie he made 30 plus years ago on that

[01:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: front.

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I understand he's trying to tell a much broader, more expansive story, but it does

[01:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: often feel like an afterthought in this.

[01:26:08] [SPEAKER_12]: A little.

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_12]: It I almost wish it was more of an afterthought because then you could just be like, it's

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_12]: just an afterthought.

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_12]: There's just enough and enough interesting performances in there.

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_12]: Actors doing it.

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Exactly.

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_12]: That you're like, ah, there is actually something to this.

[01:26:22] [SPEAKER_12]: I want more and sure, I can hold out hope that after four, maybe, you know, like I

[01:26:28] [SPEAKER_12]: have no, but like I don't, I assume that it will stay balanced like this.

[01:26:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing he said on the Rich Eisen show, he was talking about how the story went from

[01:26:38] [SPEAKER_00]: the one movie script to the four parts.

[01:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, so what was the central movie and what expanded?

[01:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: What wasn't it originally or wasn't it originally?

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, look, when it was one movie, my character Hayes had a line where he was like,

[01:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: he mentioned some trouble he got into in the past.

[01:26:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[01:26:56] [SPEAKER_12]: And now we're in that.

[01:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Trouble.

[01:26:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:26:58] [SPEAKER_00]: We're halfway through the trouble.

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So the movie he had originally built around this character that he loved so much, he named

[01:27:04] [SPEAKER_00]: his son after him.

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_00]: We're still later.

[01:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Prologue territory.

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't even gotten to that starting point.

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, maybe Abby Lee is just backstory for him, but certainly everything with John

[01:27:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Beavers and Jamie Kimmel Bauer and like him having to fight off these guys, which seems

[01:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: like it's maybe going to be resolved in the next movie.

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I told this to David Roth, Mike.

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say this to Ben and Marie because it's kind of nice.

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: When I was at Cal Arts, my very brief tenure at film school, there was a horrible wildfire

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and they asked everyone to evacuate the campus of the Santa Clarita area.

[01:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: My friend who lived down the hall, Stephen's guest on, who was a drama student, was like,

[01:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I have a friend who's got an apartment in Hollywood.

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We can sleep on his floor.

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And me and two of my friends went there.

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And the guy whose apartment we were staying at was John Beavers, who was a struggling actor

[01:27:48] [SPEAKER_00]: who had gotten no work and was like, I'll take care of you guys.

[01:27:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, can I show you my favorite movie of all time?

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And he played us his VHS of Fandango.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Costner's Kevin Reynolds first starring role, major film that kind of starts his career,

[01:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: starts the relationship.

[01:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Tell me this when we saw them.

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I want you to tell me now.

[01:28:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.

[01:28:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was just like, I've watched this movie 40 times.

[01:28:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Costner's so good at this and that.

[01:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: David sees this movie.

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, there's this guy in it.

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[01:28:18] [SPEAKER_00]: He popped so hard.

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was Panalecki, John Beavers.

[01:28:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, fucking John Beavers did it.

[01:28:23] [SPEAKER_00]: He's got in a Costner movie.

[01:28:26] [SPEAKER_11]: He pops and he's good.

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_11]: Fucking you.

[01:28:29] [SPEAKER_11]: He's big.

[01:28:29] [SPEAKER_11]: He's a great boy.

[01:28:30] [SPEAKER_00]: He's a big, tall guy and always seemed like kind of a sweet, goofy dude.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: After I knew him very briefly, hung out with him a couple times 20 plus years ago.

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: He then was on like a Nickelodeon children's show where he was part of the Fresh Beat Band

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: as like a Wiggles type performer.

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, good for John.

[01:28:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Getting work doesn't seem like what he wanted to do, but he's doing it without shame.

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And now has like transitioned into like, it feels like the exact character actor career

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: he always wanted.

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Shout out.

[01:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Rules made me really happy.

[01:28:59] [SPEAKER_12]: And I think he's one of the best performances in the film.

[01:29:03] [SPEAKER_12]: Although I think most of the performances are good.

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Again, you're getting this kind of like report card incomplete, but I like where you're going

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_12]: with this.

[01:29:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, Marie, I didn't love Abby.

[01:29:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, well, she's got big saucer eyes.

[01:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I like Abby.

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: She's fine.

[01:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I was more teeing you up for what you said afterwards, which is like, it feels like this

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: movie needs movie stars.

[01:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it's a production value thing.

[01:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's that it's like.

[01:29:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the fact that I like I keep confusing people for people who are on CW shows.

[01:29:34] [SPEAKER_10]: No, OK, you can't just get everyone.

[01:29:37] [SPEAKER_10]: He can get Sienna Miller.

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_10]: But just Sam Worthington.

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_04]: But they are.

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_04]: They are just like the most like milquetoast.

[01:29:43] [SPEAKER_10]: Like, dude, what do you expect?

[01:29:46] [SPEAKER_10]: This is a self-financed film.

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know of it that you're like the epic of it.

[01:29:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he loves How the West Was Won so much and cites it so much as an example.

[01:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And clearly that kind of multi-part storytelling.

[01:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: How the West Was Won is essentially three movies.

[01:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But also, like, OK.

[01:30:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Three sections.

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But you're watching that movie.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And even though the guys don't cross over, you're like, man, this movie has all of the

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: leading men in it.

[01:30:09] [SPEAKER_12]: But How the West Was Won, which is long, overstuffed and stupid, super indulgent.

[01:30:14] [SPEAKER_12]: Is a lot shorter than Horizon and American Saga chapter one.

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_10]: It's less than three hours long.

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, yes, movie stars, but mostly just like faces.

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I needed like Jamie Campbell Bauer.

[01:30:28] [SPEAKER_04]: That's his name, right?

[01:30:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Correct.

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_04]: He has a face.

[01:30:30] [SPEAKER_12]: I think that there were a lot of good faces.

[01:30:32] [SPEAKER_12]: Beavers has a face.

[01:30:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Beavers has a face.

[01:30:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Friggin' Rooker, man.

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Rooker has a face.

[01:30:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Rooker's like weirdly kind of touching in this movie.

[01:30:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I needed like at least 40 minutes with his wife.

[01:30:43] [SPEAKER_04]: This is David's right.

[01:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[01:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: She was a great character.

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_00]: That anything we ding this movie for kind of boils back to I wanted more of that.

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Where you're like, are we proving Kevin right?

[01:30:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Here's my hotter take.

[01:30:55] [SPEAKER_12]: We've spent years suffering watching pretty good television shows that were clearly movie

[01:31:02] [SPEAKER_12]: scripts that got stretched a little far so that they could cover eight episodes on

[01:31:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Hulu or whatever.

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[01:31:08] [SPEAKER_10]: Movies have been turned into TV shows for too long.

[01:31:10] [SPEAKER_10]: It's time for movies to get their revenge.

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to have TV shows turn into movies for no good reason.

[01:31:17] [SPEAKER_10]: And movies will just have TV qualities to them.

[01:31:20] [SPEAKER_10]: This is what I'm fighting against.

[01:31:21] [SPEAKER_10]: To confuse and annoy people.

[01:31:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I need a bottle episode about the death of Michael Rooker's child.

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_12]: What a great performance he's given, Michael Rooker.

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_12]: You liked that.

[01:31:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I just said that.

[01:31:32] [SPEAKER_12]: I know.

[01:31:32] [SPEAKER_12]: He's having fun.

[01:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: No, but I just I was just thinking of her with a soft look, a soft eyes.

[01:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: He's great.

[01:31:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I for you know, for my other job, I spent a lot of time rewatching Killers of the Flower

[01:31:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Moon.

[01:31:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And those are not necessary.

[01:31:46] [SPEAKER_04]: There are there are two movie stars in that movie.

[01:31:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_09]: But the faces are very distinct.

[01:31:52] [SPEAKER_04]: But the faces are distinctive of every small character.

[01:31:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And you can keep track of who's who.

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think I think I'd say for 50 percent of the characters, he succeeds on that front.

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And for 50 percent of the cast, it tends to be with smaller roles.

[01:32:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But in a movie like this, it is disorienting if in some of the smaller roles you cannot keep

[01:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: track of.

[01:32:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Am I meeting this guy for the first time?

[01:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Jeff Faye, you are not familiar with.

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I comes in over two hours.

[01:32:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I said, who is this Pierce Brosnan looking guy?

[01:32:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, that's fucking Jeff Faye.

[01:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited that Jeff Faye is in this movie.

[01:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm also immediately going, was Jeff Faye in an hour earlier?

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But was it in a three shot where I didn't get a close enough view at his crystal clear

[01:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: piercing blue eyes?

[01:32:33] [SPEAKER_04]: It also does like a weird job of like, I recognize someone and then my expectations are that person's

[01:32:38] [SPEAKER_04]: going to be a main character, like with Michael Angarano.

[01:32:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And he gets killed off immediately.

[01:32:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:32:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And that feels Jamie Campbell Bauer.

[01:32:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, this is going to be the main antagonist gets killed.

[01:32:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just kind of being here, you're like, is this just a favor for Kev?

[01:32:53] [SPEAKER_00]: No, he'll be going to stick around.

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: He'll have some importance later on.

[01:32:57] [SPEAKER_01]: He will, presumably.

[01:32:58] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:32:58] [SPEAKER_12]: He's also a Kittredge.

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_12]: It's also just the law for him to be in any movie shot on like, that's like west of the

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Mississippi.

[01:33:05] [SPEAKER_12]: It's like Will Patton has to be in it.

[01:33:10] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm looking at the cast list.

[01:33:12] [SPEAKER_12]: It is a lot of faces that I am fine remembering.

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_12]: You're Danny Houston's.

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_12]: You're Jenna Malone's.

[01:33:17] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[01:33:17] [SPEAKER_12]: You know, where it's like, yeah, I know who that is.

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_12]: Great.

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_12]: Great to see him.

[01:33:20] [SPEAKER_11]: Who's the chungus on the Santa Fe trail?

[01:33:26] [SPEAKER_12]: The chungus on the wagon train?

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_05]: The voyeur?

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_12]: Who is that?

[01:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_11]: That guy stuck out in my mind.

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Both of those guys are good.

[01:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Because the other one.

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me get this right.

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_12]: Because there's, I think there's Charles Holford.

[01:33:46] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_12]: I know he's one of the, he's the dad.

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_12]: He's the dad that they shoot.

[01:33:50] [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_12]: Is it Tim Gunny?

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_12]: Gwynny?

[01:33:53] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[01:33:54] [SPEAKER_12]: That guy?

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[01:33:56] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[01:33:56] [SPEAKER_12]: He's a kid.

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_12]: This guy, Roger Ivins.

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_12]: Roger.

[01:34:02] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I don't even see him in the cast list.

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_04]: He plays blindfolded man in Love Lies Bleeding.

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_04]: He plays helicopter sniper in Stranger Things.

[01:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Am I wrong in thinking the younger of the creepy guys, the smaller one is Douglas Smith,

[01:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: who we were recently shitting on in our Ouija episode?

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's the little peeper.

[01:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:34:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:34:25] [SPEAKER_04]: He is the little peeper.

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_12]: I just don't love that actor.

[01:34:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Although I think he's good in this.

[01:34:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I think he's very effective in this.

[01:34:30] [SPEAKER_04]: He's in vinyl.

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_12]: He's in vinyl, which we talk about, I think, and he's in Terminator or something.

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_12]: Genesis?

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Is he doing an accent?

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Are they both non-American?

[01:34:39] [SPEAKER_04]: This is another thing.

[01:34:40] [SPEAKER_04]: This is another thing.

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's figure out where they're from.

[01:34:42] [SPEAKER_11]: Roger Ivins is the big guy.

[01:34:43] [SPEAKER_11]: I think they almost are like doing Russian, maybe?

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_04]: One of them felt like German and one of them felt Slavic.

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, is that going to get explained?

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_04]: It must.

[01:34:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm also like, I need to know more about the British people.

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, is he an illustrator?

[01:34:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, is this part of like, you know, he seems like he's an artist.

[01:35:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So are they-

[01:35:02] [SPEAKER_11]: He talks about how they're going to print his illustrations.

[01:35:05] [SPEAKER_11]: Right?

[01:35:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So is he like, you know, like a Remington or someone like along to like kind of document

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_04]: what's going on?

[01:35:11] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, like I'm just-

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I-

[01:35:14] [SPEAKER_04]: These are like threads that are dropped and I'm just like, I-

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely said this when we did the original episode at the time.

[01:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But when I went to see Matrix Resolutions with my-

[01:35:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.

[01:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Revolutions.

[01:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Resolutions is the next one.

[01:35:28] [SPEAKER_00]: The Drew Goddard one.

[01:35:29] [SPEAKER_04]: You mean Resurrection?

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm joking.

[01:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm making a bad joke after I fucking misspoke.

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_00]: When I went to see Matrix Reloaded, the second one.

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_00]: The second one.

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_00]: When it came out and my friends were like, was that disappointing?

[01:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember my take as a 14 year old being, that movie just threw a bunch of balls into

[01:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: the air and I guess the real question is if the third movie is going to catch them.

[01:35:52] [SPEAKER_00]: My view on those two movies is different now than it was then, as David has forced into

[01:35:57] [SPEAKER_00]: my brain.

[01:35:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do feel this way with Horizon where I'm like, so many of these details we're

[01:36:02] [SPEAKER_00]: talking about.

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, man, if fucking part two pays some of these things off, if it sees them through,

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_00]: if it digs deeper, if he gets to make three and four, like does all of this seem better?

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But I also could just imagine a world in which part two just introduces 80 new things

[01:36:19] [SPEAKER_00]: where he just keeps piling stuff on.

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is often the risk of what happens with passion projects that people have live

[01:36:27] [SPEAKER_00]: in their mind for decades, is they start to go like so deep into their own universe that

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_00]: it no longer becomes like translatable to an audience.

[01:36:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It is like the miracle of Fury Road that that works.

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But when people talk about the people who've seen Megalopolis, it's described in very similar

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_00]: terms to this movie.

[01:36:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Not for being the same movie, but having the same like this guy's thought about it so deeply

[01:36:50] [SPEAKER_00]: that he's worked past the version that makes sense to us.

[01:36:54] [SPEAKER_12]: And obviously, as much as we love to deride studios and studio notes and all that stuff,

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_12]: we're mostly watching movies that were shaped by that.

[01:37:02] [SPEAKER_12]: So when there is especially a ostensible blockbuster, which this sort of is, and Megalopolis will

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_12]: have some semblance of that doesn't have that loose boundary around it, it's going to often

[01:37:15] [SPEAKER_12]: feel weird.

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_12]: This movie feels very weird.

[01:37:18] [SPEAKER_12]: It's for a very normie dad movie in many ways.

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_12]: It does feel strange and quote unquote avant-garde.

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Kind of.

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I wish it looked more.

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I agree.

[01:37:30] [SPEAKER_12]: I think it would be great if, again, I assume this is economics.

[01:37:33] [SPEAKER_12]: As you said to us before we started recording, Marie, this film shot for only 52 days versus

[01:37:38] [SPEAKER_12]: a hundred plus for.

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Dances with Wolves.

[01:37:40] [SPEAKER_12]: Dances with Wolves.

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_12]: Obviously, it's not shooting on sumptuous, you know, beautiful, you know, grainy film.

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_12]: It's.

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:37:47] [SPEAKER_12]: Looks fine.

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_12]: I would say.

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It looks fine.

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's fine.

[01:37:53] [SPEAKER_00]: There are moments that are very striking.

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say this movie just.

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Kind of looks like TV.

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Not have a consistent visual language.

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of it feels out of necessity.

[01:38:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Like there are times where I would just feel like the visual language would change within

[01:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: a certain scene.

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_00]: There are shots that look like it was shot on an iPhone where they're like, we just have

[01:38:10] [SPEAKER_00]: to get this quickly.

[01:38:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying it was literally shot on iPhone, but like I feel the circumstances in some of

[01:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: the setups.

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_11]: They're on location.

[01:38:18] [SPEAKER_11]: They are.

[01:38:19] [SPEAKER_12]: And I feel like.

[01:38:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Immediate production.

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: They.

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_12]: They take advantage of that.

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Just sometimes looked a little flat.

[01:38:25] [SPEAKER_12]: Like the guy who shot this shot open range.

[01:38:27] [SPEAKER_12]: Like it's J. Michael Murray.

[01:38:28] [SPEAKER_12]: Like it's not like he has incompetent.

[01:38:31] [SPEAKER_12]: Nobody's behind the camera or whatever.

[01:38:32] [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, just give me some, you know, some green.

[01:38:40] [SPEAKER_12]: Are there other things we have to say about this movie?

[01:38:42] [SPEAKER_11]: Hmm.

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, we kind of jumped around with the plot and it already jumps around so much.

[01:38:48] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't really know where we would pick up or where we left off.

[01:38:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know that Ella Hunt, who's the British lady, the British bathing lady is playing Gilda

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Radner in Jason Reitman's SNL movie?

[01:39:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You can see that.

[01:39:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Could you?

[01:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: She's got a face.

[01:39:04] [SPEAKER_00]: She's a woman.

[01:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You are right that Gilda Radner was a human woman with a face.

[01:39:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[01:39:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think I watched this movie and I'm not saying this was her audition for SNL that

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_00]: she walked in.

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Am I a cup of water, please?

[01:39:18] [SPEAKER_00]: It actually sounds like something Gilda Radner might have fun with.

[01:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And Jason Reitman went, you are my Roseanne, Roseanne Adana.

[01:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It is just kind of funny.

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_00]: She came on screen.

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I turned to Marie and I said that to her.

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what?

[01:39:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't process.

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_11]: So the Costner shootout leading up to it, the brother hitting the kind guy, Michael Angarano.

[01:39:41] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm mad.

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Because he's a sweetie and he's been sucked into something he doesn't really understand.

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_10]: And he's so small.

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_10]: These guys are so big.

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_11]: Next to beavers, he looks like a fucking little minion.

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_11]: He would have.

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_04]: He would have.

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You would have played that role.

[01:39:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I would have.

[01:40:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would have.

[01:40:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I would have played that role.

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_00]: He is kind of the Rick, the intern of Horizon.

[01:40:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I want all my picks back.

[01:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the Costner just in that scene.

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_04]: But also, I like got.

[01:40:11] [SPEAKER_08]: You hot cake eating motherfucker.

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_08]: What?

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I was asking again, like in real time asking you questions when he and Costner confront each other.

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, is this completely ran?

[01:40:24] [SPEAKER_04]: What is what is Hayes Ellison's backstory?

[01:40:27] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't know.

[01:40:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:40:29] [SPEAKER_04]: This is what I what is.

[01:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So my read of what he's getting at here.

[01:40:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But you're watching this movie trying to like fill in blanks going like, I guess I'm supposed to infer this.

[01:40:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And then certain times you're like, no, I guess I wasn't.

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm supposed to know nothing.

[01:40:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm supposed to just be reading only what's happening.

[01:40:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess the idea is that Hayes Ellison is your classic like fucking man with no name.

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I ride into town.

[01:40:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I have no attachments.

[01:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:40:52] [SPEAKER_00]: He finds himself in this moment accidentally placing himself at the center of a conflict, which ties him to this woman.

[01:40:59] [SPEAKER_12]: Making an emotional decision to help people while also being like, you know, this is the world's a cruel place, man.

[01:41:06] [SPEAKER_12]: We got to get out of here.

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't protect you forever.

[01:41:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Blah, blah, blah.

[01:41:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the moment of greatest like visual triumph in this movie is you're having this pressure cooker.

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_00]: These two guys centering circling around this.

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you call a trough?

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.

[01:41:21] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the best.

[01:41:21] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the best shot in the movie.

[01:41:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're you're like a little visually disoriented.

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the camera goes over Jamie Campbell Bauer's shoulder and you see the reaction of Costner in the water shooting.

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that was cool.

[01:41:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like incredible.

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I think it's so crystal clear what's happening.

[01:41:37] [SPEAKER_11]: The dynamics.

[01:41:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm saying in a good way.

[01:41:40] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, that he's he's purposely throwing you off a little bit of like these two guys keep moving around.

[01:41:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Where are they relative to each other?

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Who's going to pull the gun first?

[01:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're waiting for your classic like it cuts to a close up of Costner lifting the gun.

[01:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And instead, you're seeing the shootout happen in a reflection of the other guy's shot.

[01:41:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, right.

[01:41:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It somehow captures the feeling of being caught unawares rather than needing to telegraph to the audience.

[01:42:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And here's the impactful moment.

[01:42:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that genuinely made me gasp.

[01:42:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was cool.

[01:42:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, David.

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon American Saga.

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_12]: After one.

[01:42:14] [SPEAKER_12]: Say it again.

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon and American Saga.

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_12]: Chapter one.

[01:42:18] [SPEAKER_00]: This episode is kind of the opposite of Horizon American Saga.

[01:42:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Chapter one.

[01:42:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I keep checking the clock and being like, what?

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We've been going for four hours and we haven't.

[01:42:26] [SPEAKER_02]: How long have we been recording for?

[01:42:27] [SPEAKER_00]: One hour and 40 minutes.

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Who needs it?

[01:42:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Who needs anything else?

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what else is there to talk about?

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the problem.

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much in this and yet it's so overwhelming that you end up just talking about it in sort of large abstract swallows.

[01:42:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Or we also are talking like individual scenes we like.

[01:42:41] [SPEAKER_04]: We like the characters.

[01:42:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm excited to see what.

[01:42:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we didn't hear Ribisi talk at all, right?

[01:42:47] [SPEAKER_04]: No.

[01:42:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So what voice is he going to do?

[01:42:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to make a choice.

[01:42:53] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[01:42:53] [SPEAKER_00]: What?

[01:42:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You know who else is apparently in chapter two?

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't.

[01:42:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Thomas Hayden.

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I know, which I'm very excited for.

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I did know that.

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's cool.

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully he's playing sort of the Ronan, the accuser of this universe.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I think he is.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:43:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Ribisi's the Thanos.

[01:43:07] [SPEAKER_11]: Who's the guy that.

[01:43:12] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry.

[01:43:12] [SPEAKER_11]: We're doing great of names.

[01:43:14] [SPEAKER_11]: Who's the guy that what?

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_11]: Marigold sleeps with.

[01:43:17] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, for.

[01:43:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[01:43:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Example of a scene where I'm like, I don't understand.

[01:43:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand if I'm supposed to understand.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Marigold being Abby Lee's character.

[01:43:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And I asked Griffin, like, is she fucking turning tricks?

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_04]: That was my read.

[01:43:29] [SPEAKER_04]: But who's this guy?

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, what the hell is going on?

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I think he's a John.

[01:43:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he starts referring to their backstory and almost speaking in a way like she's running

[01:43:38] [SPEAKER_00]: a con on Hayes where it's like, when's he going to find out about you?

[01:43:42] [SPEAKER_00]: How long is he going to stay by your side?

[01:43:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Then he hits her, walks away, and then she fucks Costner and slips away in the middle of

[01:43:48] [SPEAKER_00]: the night.

[01:43:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, where'd she go?

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And she leaves the kid behind.

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Where'd she leave people?

[01:43:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But I could not understand.

[01:43:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Is this supposed to be a little bit confusing and a mystery for me?

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Or am I supposed to get what's happening?

[01:44:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I didn't know what was going on.

[01:44:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that I didn't get it.

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_00]: It's that I didn't get whether I was supposed to get it.

[01:44:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is a little bit of trouble.

[01:44:07] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know that we're supposed to get half this movie's plot movements.

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Really.

[01:44:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Which is a huge thing to ask of.

[01:44:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Not to speak ill of our older citizens.

[01:44:19] [SPEAKER_12]: But Costner is kind of pitching it at the 50 plus crowd.

[01:44:23] [SPEAKER_12]: And he's essentially saying to them, watch my movie.

[01:44:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Then come back in six weeks.

[01:44:28] [SPEAKER_12]: And you're going to have to remember kind of who everyone was and where they were.

[01:44:32] [SPEAKER_12]: And then we're going to do more.

[01:44:33] [SPEAKER_12]: And then I'm going to try and make the third one to get it to you pretty soon.

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_12]: You know, but it's like, not like TV where it's like, yeah, you can binge this.

[01:44:40] [SPEAKER_12]: Or yeah, like once a week we'll do like one check-in.

[01:44:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you think he's going to do a previously on Horizon?

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_04]: An American saga.

[01:44:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Chapter one, sizzle reel at the beginning of part two.

[01:44:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Couple minutes.

[01:44:51] [SPEAKER_00]: A couple minutes.

[01:44:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, Griffin.

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_00]: A couple minutes.

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I agree.

[01:44:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about how good Giovanni Ribisi's agent is?

[01:44:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Because of his fourth billing?

[01:45:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he gets the end.

[01:45:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the billing on this movie.

[01:45:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Costner, Sienna Miller, Sam Worthington, and Giovanni Ribisi?

[01:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me see if it's on the poster.

[01:45:13] [SPEAKER_00]: My memory is that everyone else is on a split card.

[01:45:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[01:45:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's it.

[01:45:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you're right.

[01:45:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Like Luke Wilson, Danny Houston.

[01:45:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:45:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It goes two cards to three cards quickly.

[01:45:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And Ribisi.

[01:45:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Malone, Ingenaro, Lee, Bauer.

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Ribisi also had single card billing in Avatar The Way of Water, a film where he appears

[01:45:31] [SPEAKER_00]: on a video screen that someone else is watching.

[01:45:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but he's in the rest of them.

[01:45:35] [SPEAKER_00]: For five seconds.

[01:45:36] [SPEAKER_12]: We should remark upon the fact that, you know, of course, Avatar.

[01:45:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:45:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Dances with wolves.

[01:45:41] [SPEAKER_12]: Often compared to Dances with Wolves.

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_12]: And now Costner is using multiple Avatar actors.

[01:45:55] [SPEAKER_00]: This is true.

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_04]: We were saying about Costner, or not Costner, about Eastwood being able to like...

[01:46:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Focus on the one thing.

[01:46:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Focus on one thing or distill it to something.

[01:46:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I was waiting for some spine here of like, is there clearly a main thematic concern that

[01:46:26] [SPEAKER_00]: makes these scenes worth seeing part one?

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the correlation or whatever it is.

[01:46:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it is just so bizarrely organized that it does just feel like, here's the start

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_00]: of it.

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:46:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the beginning of all my pieces.

[01:46:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I do hope Paiacan's in the next one.

[01:46:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I forgot that...

[01:46:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It's too painful.

[01:46:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It's too painful.

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I forgot that Glenn Turman also is in the coming up this season on Horizon.

[01:46:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Love Glenn Turman.

[01:46:50] [SPEAKER_00]: One of my favorite guys.

[01:46:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Glenn Turman, I like him already.

[01:46:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Put him in a hat.

[01:46:54] [SPEAKER_12]: I like him even more.

[01:46:55] [SPEAKER_12]: He's just sitting in a chair in a hat and I'm pumping my face.

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_04]: When you Google him, the first picture comes up.

[01:47:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Him with a hat.

[01:47:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Him with a hat.

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Looking great.

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_00]: He looks incredible in a hat.

[01:47:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a picture of him with a hat and then a picture of him not wearing a hat and

[01:47:08] [SPEAKER_04]: he definitely looks better in the hat.

[01:47:10] [SPEAKER_00]: He looks better in the hat.

[01:47:11] [SPEAKER_11]: What else do we have to say?

[01:47:12] [SPEAKER_11]: The daughter of Sienna Miller.

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_11]: Mm-hmm.

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_11]: Looks a lot like Sienna Miller.

[01:47:16] [SPEAKER_11]: She does.

[01:47:16] [SPEAKER_11]: I think she's great in it.

[01:47:17] [SPEAKER_11]: And I really like...

[01:47:18] [SPEAKER_11]: I found it heartwarming when she cuts the flowers.

[01:47:21] [SPEAKER_11]: Sure.

[01:47:22] [SPEAKER_11]: With the soldiers going off to fight in the Civil War.

[01:47:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Are we going to see Civil War battles?

[01:47:27] [SPEAKER_12]: No, I think that's like something that the idea is it's more like this is almost happening

[01:47:32] [SPEAKER_12]: more because of what's happening in America.

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:47:36] [SPEAKER_12]: Of like we both don't have the manpower militarily to really be on the West.

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Right?

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:47:44] [SPEAKER_12]: And no one...

[01:47:45] [SPEAKER_11]: It's stalling expansion.

[01:47:46] [SPEAKER_12]: It's stalling it, but also it's making it wilder.

[01:47:48] [SPEAKER_12]: And the people who are going out there are kind of completely just doing it, you know,

[01:47:52] [SPEAKER_12]: willy nilly.

[01:47:54] [SPEAKER_12]: That's why I assume it's set at this point.

[01:47:57] [SPEAKER_12]: And it's also just this kind of moment of like...

[01:47:59] [SPEAKER_12]: Like there's that conversation Worthington has with Rooker where they're like,

[01:48:02] [SPEAKER_12]: what do you think is going to happen?

[01:48:04] [SPEAKER_12]: And they're like, I don't know, man.

[01:48:05] [SPEAKER_12]: But like whatever happens, like this is next out here.

[01:48:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Right?

[01:48:09] [SPEAKER_12]: Like it's going to be that, but then it's going to be this.

[01:48:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Which is...

[01:48:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Dances Wolves is the same vibe of like, it's coming for us, man.

[01:48:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Like we don't really know exactly when.

[01:48:19] [SPEAKER_04]: No, it starts with the Civil War.

[01:48:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Dances Wolves is also set...

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_12]: It's set right at the end of the Civil War.

[01:48:26] [SPEAKER_12]: But yeah, but it's more, you know, just that vibe of like everyone who's out in the open plains is like,

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_12]: we know this annihilation wave is approaching.

[01:48:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, yes.

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_12]: Like from the east, basically.

[01:48:36] [SPEAKER_12]: Like we don't know exactly how.

[01:48:38] [SPEAKER_04]: The great white wave is coming.

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_12]: Elegant.

[01:48:42] [SPEAKER_12]: Except this is...

[01:48:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Dances Wolves is about a culture that's being lost.

[01:48:45] [SPEAKER_12]: This is more about, right, like something that's being planted here forcefully, violently.

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_12]: A culture that is being lost.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Somewhat destructively.

[01:48:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Right, you know.

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_12]: And we're watching how that works.

[01:48:59] [SPEAKER_12]: It's an interesting idea.

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_11]: I think...

[01:49:02] [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't totally work.

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_11]: You're not wrong in that it's very imbalanced of settler versus indigenous.

[01:49:09] [SPEAKER_11]: Man, the massacre by the bounty hunters is a disgusting...

[01:49:15] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[01:49:15] [SPEAKER_11]: ...scene.

[01:49:16] [SPEAKER_11]: And I found it vile and awful and necessary.

[01:49:20] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, exactly.

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_11]: It's not romantic.

[01:49:22] [SPEAKER_11]: And it's...

[01:49:23] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, what happens to those settlers is not right.

[01:49:27] [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, in the beginning of the movie.

[01:49:29] [SPEAKER_11]: But this is women and children.

[01:49:30] [SPEAKER_11]: They're waiting for the men to leave.

[01:49:33] [SPEAKER_11]: And they are going to scalp these innocent victims.

[01:49:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That is a good point, though.

[01:49:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That it is a kind of impressively unromantic movie.

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[01:49:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think Hosner is the only one who is like in his performance and it's just in his bloodstream serving up the like kind of idea of the Western in his character.

[01:50:03] [SPEAKER_10]: But even so...

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_00]: He's an old, weird, sad, broken man.

[01:50:07] [SPEAKER_12]: That's the thing.

[01:50:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Even so, he's not in the main storyline.

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_00]: He's playing the blue bonnet in this, basically.

[01:50:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:50:12] [SPEAKER_12]: It's a little clownish in a way, this like plot he gets wrapped up in that he doesn't even really want to be a part of.

[01:50:18] [SPEAKER_12]: And you don't really get how it's going to relate to Horizon.

[01:50:20] [SPEAKER_12]: But you know what I'm saying.

[01:50:21] [SPEAKER_12]: I know what you're saying.

[01:50:22] [SPEAKER_12]: He's not...

[01:50:23] [SPEAKER_12]: He's got a hat on.

[01:50:24] [SPEAKER_01]: No, but also that.

[01:50:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And a scarf.

[01:50:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:50:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's big.

[01:50:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Everyone else...

[01:50:28] [SPEAKER_04]: A scarf looks like a pashmina scarf that my aunt gave to me for Christmas 12 years ago.

[01:50:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Koster knows that.

[01:50:33] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why he put that there.

[01:50:34] [SPEAKER_00]: The Pharrell hat.

[01:50:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to need a picture of that, Marie.

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll see if I can find one.

[01:50:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think most of the actors in this movie, and even the style of the filmmaking, he is not riffing on Western movies as much as he is just like, this is what things were actually like in the West.

[01:50:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying it's incredibly gritty and stripped down and realistic.

[01:50:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But he's not in love with the romance of the thing.

[01:51:00] [SPEAKER_12]: Not entirely.

[01:51:01] [SPEAKER_12]: He's in love with the struggle and the grit of it.

[01:51:07] [SPEAKER_12]: But no, not really romantic.

[01:51:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Ben, you bringing up that scene reminded me of a really impactful moment where one of the guys takes blood from the scalp and rubs it on the little boy's face.

[01:51:25] [SPEAKER_04]: As like a, I don't know, some machismo, like war paint or whatever.

[01:51:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was just like, this is like disgusting.

[01:51:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, there's some powerful stuff in it.

[01:51:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It's just such a long movie that, you know.

[01:51:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, look, you'll all tune in next week and we'll have a better sense to some degree of what this is or isn't.

[01:51:47] [SPEAKER_11]: I kind of think we said this a bunch already, but do we want to say maybe what we want to see in the next one?

[01:51:52] [SPEAKER_11]: This is good.

[01:51:54] [SPEAKER_11]: I'll start.

[01:51:55] [SPEAKER_11]: Beans.

[01:51:57] [SPEAKER_11]: I'll continue.

[01:51:58] [SPEAKER_11]: Bees.

[01:51:58] [SPEAKER_11]: Yep.

[01:51:59] [SPEAKER_12]: Costner has to shoot some bees.

[01:52:01] [SPEAKER_12]: Yep.

[01:52:01] [SPEAKER_11]: No, beans are so important to the Western area.

[01:52:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Someone just sitting down.

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Luke Wilson, let's say it.

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Yep.

[01:52:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[01:52:08] [SPEAKER_12]: And cooking a pot of beans.

[01:52:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:52:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And holding his spoon a weird way like this or whatever, you know.

[01:52:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:52:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to see a big keg with three X's on it.

[01:52:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That would be good.

[01:52:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe also at some point someone loses all their money and has to wear that keg like a barrel.

[01:52:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:52:22] [SPEAKER_00]: With suspenders.

[01:52:23] [SPEAKER_12]: With suspenders.

[01:52:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Yep.

[01:52:25] [SPEAKER_12]: Yep.

[01:52:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have a joke, but I just, I want to see more of Isabel Furman.

[01:52:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I think she's a very talented actress.

[01:52:32] [SPEAKER_12]: She's such a talent and she's so perfect for this.

[01:52:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:52:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, more of her, please.

[01:52:39] [SPEAKER_12]: Did you see The Novice?

[01:52:41] [SPEAKER_12]: I did.

[01:52:42] [SPEAKER_12]: She's so good in that.

[01:52:42] [SPEAKER_04]: She's great in that.

[01:52:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Great movie.

[01:52:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Shout out to The Novice.

[01:52:46] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm hoping the film in the middle, they just show The Novice.

[01:52:50] [SPEAKER_12]: Costner comes on screen and is like, and now a pause.

[01:52:53] [SPEAKER_12]: And he wheels out of TV.

[01:52:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, a fucking boat.

[01:52:56] [SPEAKER_10]: He's like, do you like her?

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_10]: She was in another movie.

[01:52:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to load the VHS.

[01:53:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the friend Alejandro's bit he used to do about how long Atlas Shrugged was,

[01:53:03] [SPEAKER_00]: where he says in the middle of the book, they just read another book.

[01:53:06] [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, in the middle of Atlas Shrugged, one of the characters reads Moby Dick and all of

[01:53:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Moby Dick plays out.

[01:53:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And then it just says, wow, that was a good book.

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Good book.

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Call me Ishmael.

[01:53:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Am I right?

[01:53:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_00]: He could just start putting other movies into Horizon.

[01:53:19] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I hope to see more of the many plot lines in Horizon.

[01:53:23] [SPEAKER_12]: And I hope they continue to not interweave or end in any way.

[01:53:27] [SPEAKER_12]: Stick to the plan, Kev.

[01:53:30] [SPEAKER_05]: There's one.

[01:53:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Full speed ahead.

[01:53:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I won't say.

[01:53:33] [SPEAKER_11]: I want actually new stories.

[01:53:35] There probably are.

[01:53:36] [SPEAKER_11]: It's fucking Glenn Turpin or whatever.

[01:53:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I was telling some of my girlfriends that we saw the movie.

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And one of them who has a friend who is an actress who I will not name.

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_04]: But she was asked to read for the saga.

[01:53:53] [SPEAKER_00]: A part that was in this film or not yet?

[01:53:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Unclear because she mentioned that there was a lot of sexual violence.

[01:54:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.

[01:54:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And that I did not really see as part of part one.

[01:54:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm curious to see if that's a big part of part two and how that will be handled.

[01:54:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Because, I mean, Costner keeps talking about women and their, you know, their role in westward expansion.

[01:54:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, hmm.

[01:54:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, it does feel like whatever they're setting up with Ella Hunt is going to come to a head in some way.

[01:54:29] [SPEAKER_12]: Throughout history, women have longed to clean themselves and their families.

[01:54:33] [SPEAKER_12]: Nice.

[01:54:33] [SPEAKER_12]: That's what he says.

[01:54:35] [SPEAKER_12]: This film came out June 28th, 2024.

[01:54:38] [SPEAKER_12]: And a great weekend for Hollywood.

[01:54:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:54:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It just feels weird not to release a movie on July 4th.

[01:54:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I've complained about before.

[01:54:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll complain about again.

[01:54:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Griffin is really upset about July 4th weekend this year.

[01:54:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really angry about it.

[01:54:49] [SPEAKER_02]: What comes out?

[01:54:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Despicable Me 4 and Maxine is the second widest release of July 4th.

[01:54:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's so many movies that feel like they should have gone on to July 4th instead, leaving other weekends empty instead.

[01:55:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Number one at the box office, Griffin.

[01:55:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Number one at the box office is still Inside Out 2.

[01:55:06] [SPEAKER_12]: With $57.5 million in its third week, it's made $1 billion in the globe.

[01:55:14] [SPEAKER_00]: A movie that I think is pretty mid.

[01:55:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I still haven't seen it.

[01:55:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I was not very impressed with it, but you know what?

[01:55:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy that it keeps...

[01:55:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Same cinema, basically.

[01:55:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and Disney breathing down.

[01:55:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It is funny.

[01:55:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It just feels like for the foreseeable future, two movies a year are going to get credited for saving cinema.

[01:55:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And in between those two movies, every time people are going to be like, is this the last stand?

[01:55:37] [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, exactly.

[01:55:38] [SPEAKER_11]: Instead of seeing Inside 2, how about go outside?

[01:55:42] [SPEAKER_11]: Number two at the box office, Griffin.

[01:55:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought that was funny, Ben.

[01:55:45] [SPEAKER_11]: No, it's just a genuine like, come on, guys.

[01:55:48] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, let's all go outside by wrapping this episode up.

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_04]: It's too hot.

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I like that.

[01:55:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I like being inside with air conditioning.

[01:55:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I think that's part of why Hollywood is back better than ever, baby.

[01:55:57] [SPEAKER_12]: All of its films are shown with air conditioning.

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Probably will leave the studio, go to a movie theater.

[01:56:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe to see the number two film at the box office.

[01:56:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is?

[01:56:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Quiet Place Part 2, which if Inside Out were not fully fucking dominating, I think would even be getting more credit for like, is this movie saving signals?

[01:56:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it made a lot of money.

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_00]: In my opinion, a pretty good movie.

[01:56:13] [SPEAKER_04]: It looks good.

[01:56:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Deadline, who is so fucking cynical with their box office reporting every single weekend.

[01:56:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I would load your Alamo app and see if you can get some tickets to this if you're going to go right now.

[01:56:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Quiet Place?

[01:56:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I'm going to look into it in a second.

[01:56:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to engage with the episode at hand.

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Quiet Place Part 2.

[01:56:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, day one.

[01:56:29] [SPEAKER_00]: What I was going to say is, this weekend, when you were so expecting Deadline, just fucking dunk on the horizon number, which of course opened number three with $11 million.

[01:56:38] [SPEAKER_00]: That's correct.

[01:56:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It didn't even make it to 12.

[01:56:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It was down from the early Friday estimates.

[01:56:44] [SPEAKER_00]: That's $11 million.

[01:56:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It made it to $11 million.

[01:56:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[01:56:48] [SPEAKER_00]: An American number.

[01:56:49] [SPEAKER_00]: They were like, look, is this a great number?

[01:56:50] [SPEAKER_00]: No, but it's nice that there are multiple types of movies at the theaters right now.

[01:56:55] [SPEAKER_00]: There's four movies making over 10.

[01:56:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, yeah.

[01:56:58] [SPEAKER_00]: They were just like, this is the first weekend that looks a little normal in a while, but we're not even going to ding this for underperforming because you're like, here's a movie for one audience.

[01:57:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's a movie for another audience.

[01:57:07] [SPEAKER_00]: They're all coexisting.

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_00]: That part of it's...

[01:57:09] [SPEAKER_12]: One assumes it is hoping for a bit of a July 4th run, you know, in a mild way.

[01:57:15] [SPEAKER_09]: But the Quiet Place movies...

[01:57:17] Shh.

[01:57:18] Sorry.

[01:57:19] [SPEAKER_01]: There's been a growth in opening for all three, right?

[01:57:22] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, pretty much.

[01:57:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:57:25] [SPEAKER_12]: It's...

[01:57:25] [SPEAKER_12]: Look, it's just...

[01:57:26] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think it's a masterpiece or anything, but I think like...

[01:57:30] [SPEAKER_12]: The amount of interest I had in a Quiet Place prequel was so little.

[01:57:35] [SPEAKER_12]: And...

[01:57:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I only just found out it's the pig guy, like...

[01:57:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:57:38] [SPEAKER_12]: For the pig guy to essentially just make a small movie about grief and dealing with your cat while the world is ending is exactly what I wanted him.

[01:57:46] [SPEAKER_00]: All these big bets that people feel like are failing and are showing that audiences don't care about cinema and, you know, fucking whatever.

[01:57:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, quietly, Godzilla, Modern Apes, and Quiet Place are these franchises that do not...

[01:58:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Nice new franchises.

[01:58:01] [SPEAKER_00]: ...dominate the fucking, like, blogosphere.

[01:58:05] [SPEAKER_00]: We're not breathlessly reporting on everything that happens, every development, every fan theory.

[01:58:10] [SPEAKER_00]: In between the movies, people kind of just chill out.

[01:58:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when they come out, everyone goes to see them and then moves on.

[01:58:18] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm happy they exist.

[01:58:20] [SPEAKER_12]: I guess we're going to have another Quiet Place at this point, but...

[01:58:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Almost definitely.

[01:58:23] [SPEAKER_12]: I wonder what the next one...

[01:58:25] [SPEAKER_00]: If they're going to...

[01:58:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.

[01:58:26] [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if they're going to keep building it out in other directions or go back to the Ellison Simmons saga.

[01:58:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Number four at the box office.

[01:58:36] [SPEAKER_00]: A film we both like.

[01:58:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a movie we both like that's number four at the box office.

[01:58:40] [SPEAKER_00]: It's called Bad Boys Ride or Die.

[01:58:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Fun.

[01:58:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's making a...

[01:58:43] [SPEAKER_12]: It's making a...

[01:58:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Number five at the box office.

[01:58:47] [SPEAKER_12]: New this week is an Indian film.

[01:58:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, yes.

[01:58:49] [SPEAKER_12]: I do not know the title.

[01:58:50] [SPEAKER_12]: It's called Kalki 2898 AD.

[01:58:54] [SPEAKER_12]: It's some sort of sci-fi epic.

[01:58:57] [SPEAKER_12]: Looks kind of rad.

[01:58:59] [SPEAKER_12]: It's, you know, Telugu language.

[01:59:03] [SPEAKER_12]: You know, much like it's from that sort of sphere of Indian cinema.

[01:59:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[01:59:07] [SPEAKER_12]: So, I don't know.

[01:59:09] [SPEAKER_10]: It looks kind of cool.

[01:59:09] [SPEAKER_12]: It looks sort of a...

[01:59:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, fuck.

[01:59:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Rebel Moon coded.

[01:59:14] [SPEAKER_12]: God, I had to struggle to make my stupid joke because I already forgot the name.

[01:59:18] [SPEAKER_12]: It's giving scars.

[01:59:18] [SPEAKER_12]: Of Zack Snyder's stupid fucking thing.

[01:59:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Can I get some credit for that joke?

[01:59:23] [SPEAKER_12]: It's giving scars.

[01:59:23] [SPEAKER_12]: I love it.

[01:59:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, thank you.

[01:59:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Funny.

[01:59:25] [SPEAKER_12]: The only problem with it, of course, is that the R-rated cut of The Scargiver has a different

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_12]: name.

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_12]: Jesus Christ.

[01:59:30] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's called like Strawberry Tales Forever or whatever.

[01:59:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, I don't...

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't keep track.

[01:59:34] [SPEAKER_00]: There's four different titles.

[01:59:35] [SPEAKER_00]: The Scargiver is such a funny title to give someone because you're just like, you mean

[01:59:38] [SPEAKER_00]: the guy who cuts people?

[01:59:40] [SPEAKER_00]: No, they give scars.

[01:59:42] [SPEAKER_12]: The Scargiver is such a funny title.

[01:59:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Also in the top 10, the Bike Riders, aka Dry Turkey Dinner.

[01:59:47] [SPEAKER_12]: That's what I'm calling it.

[01:59:47] [SPEAKER_12]: You know what?

[01:59:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm coming out on record.

[01:59:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Jesus Christ.

[01:59:49] [SPEAKER_12]: David's being so...

[01:59:50] [SPEAKER_04]: David hates the Bike Riders.

[01:59:52] [SPEAKER_03]: The problem with this movie getting pushed back is that David's also been mean about this

[01:59:56] [SPEAKER_00]: movie for, it feels like, four straight years.

[01:59:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I just didn't like it that much.

[02:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You guys are acting like I'm beating someone up in school.

[02:00:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I want you to say...

[02:00:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I want Austin Butler to look you in the eyes.

[02:00:08] [SPEAKER_04]: David.

[02:00:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I need you to say that to his face.

[02:00:12] [SPEAKER_12]: I would be like, ah, A, B, you're great.

[02:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what's quietly...

[02:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Even though...

[02:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Shh.

[02:00:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Even though it's going to be profitable and no one's going to be a bit of a

[02:00:22] [SPEAKER_08]: complaining about it, what I think is quietly kind of an embarrassing box office number.

[02:00:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Is it number seven?

[02:00:27] [SPEAKER_12]: I think so.

[02:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: The Garfield movie?

[02:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Considering...

[02:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's made 90.

[02:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It came out in May when everything was flopping and people were like, the sky is falling.

[02:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It had two weekends at number one with very little competition and it's going to crawl

[02:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: to 100.

[02:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's two reasons for its failure.

[02:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Compared to Inside Out Exploding where you're like, clearly there's a family audience that was

[02:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: very eager to see things.

[02:00:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And even still, a lot of parents were like, wait a month for Inside Out.

[02:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to go see Garfield.

[02:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I just think, like...

[02:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything about it's so uninspiring.

[02:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It was just sort of like, correct that you want to see another Garfield movie, you fucking

[02:01:02] [SPEAKER_00]: idiots.

[02:01:02] [SPEAKER_12]: And as much as Garfield has endured, I think Garfield's peak as a sort of pop culture figure

[02:01:09] [SPEAKER_12]: was long ago at this point, right?

[02:01:11] [SPEAKER_12]: Like...

[02:01:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[02:01:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Does anyone really get excited about the idea of Garfield?

[02:01:14] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.

[02:01:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Do you, Ben?

[02:01:16] [SPEAKER_12]: You like cats?

[02:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Are kids into Garfield?

[02:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think they're that into Garfield.

[02:01:21] [SPEAKER_12]: They're into a cartoon cat.

[02:01:23] [SPEAKER_12]: And so that's sort of enough to get you over the line.

[02:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's like the bare minimum number.

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It does kind of feel...

[02:01:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a Heathcliff guy.

[02:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah.

[02:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: That guy's weird.

[02:01:31] [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of our listeners are Heathcliff guys.

[02:01:33] [SPEAKER_11]: Number nine at the box.

[02:01:34] [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry, number eight is Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes.

[02:01:36] [SPEAKER_11]: I do know that because one of them got me subtly featured in a Heathcliff.

[02:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, right.

[02:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they wrote in a letter.

[02:01:44] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[02:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben and his cat pig from...

[02:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, my cat Fletch likes to get wet.

[02:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:01:49] [SPEAKER_12]: That's what it was.

[02:01:50] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[02:01:51] [SPEAKER_12]: Kings of Planet of the Apes, a movie I, you know, I was sort of like mildly into.

[02:01:57] [SPEAKER_12]: It's definitely a little slow at times.

[02:02:01] [SPEAKER_12]: It's a movie that feels like it has three different movies in it.

[02:02:04] [SPEAKER_12]: It's one really fun one.

[02:02:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Number nine at the box office, God bless it, is Yorgos Lanthimos' Kinds of Kindness, which

[02:02:11] [SPEAKER_12]: is almost three hours long.

[02:02:12] [SPEAKER_12]: A crowd pleaser.

[02:02:13] [SPEAKER_12]: And makes Horizon look like sweet syrup going down.

[02:02:18] [SPEAKER_12]: You know what I mean?

[02:02:19] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, have you seen it yet?

[02:02:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I have not.

[02:02:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Are you interested?

[02:02:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I am interested.

[02:02:23] [SPEAKER_12]: I want you to see it.

[02:02:25] [SPEAKER_12]: Has anyone here seen it?

[02:02:25] [SPEAKER_12]: Nobody?

[02:02:26] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[02:02:26] [SPEAKER_12]: I got a lot of stuff on my to-see list.

[02:02:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's rough out there.

[02:02:30] [SPEAKER_04]: There's so- and I was out of the city for a while.

[02:02:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I'm like trying to pick and choose what to see.

[02:02:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I had to see Horizon.

[02:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We've been recording a lot of episodes, too, for a couple of reasons.

[02:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:02:41] [SPEAKER_12]: But like also, you've got your evenings.

[02:02:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Go see a cinema.

[02:02:45] [SPEAKER_12]: You know what I do in the evenings?

[02:02:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Honk shoe?

[02:02:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:02:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Like Kevin Costner.

[02:02:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I get honked.

[02:02:51] [SPEAKER_12]: Sorry.

[02:02:52] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.

[02:02:53] [SPEAKER_12]: Number 10 at the box office is a film called Jet and Juliet, which appears to also,

[02:02:59] [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's a Punjabi movie.

[02:03:02] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know much about it.

[02:03:03] [SPEAKER_12]: But you also got If hanging around.

[02:03:07] [SPEAKER_12]: It's made it $110 million.

[02:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Another example of the Garfield effect of like family audience is so hungry that it feels

[02:03:13] [SPEAKER_00]: like any family movie put in theaters will basically crawl to 100.

[02:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:03:17] [SPEAKER_12]: And then Thelma, which is like obviously going to be like a nice little sleeper hit this

[02:03:23] [SPEAKER_12]: summer, which is a lovely movie.

[02:03:25] [SPEAKER_04]: So I saw Powell and Pressburger's Gone to Earth.

[02:03:29] [SPEAKER_12]: That made $48 million last week.

[02:03:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Gone to Earth?

[02:03:33] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[02:03:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I've never seen it either.

[02:03:34] [SPEAKER_12]: It's been recently restored.

[02:03:35] [SPEAKER_04]: It is incredible.

[02:03:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Is it playing somewhere?

[02:03:38] [SPEAKER_04]: It's MoMA.

[02:03:40] [SPEAKER_04]: It's MoMA.

[02:03:40] [SPEAKER_04]: MoMA's doing a full Powell and Pressburger retrospective.

[02:03:43] [SPEAKER_04]: It's playing again on August 15th.

[02:03:46] [SPEAKER_04]: OK.

[02:03:46] [SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, I bring this.

[02:03:49] [SPEAKER_07]: But that's we have tickets for midnight showing of Horizon American Saga chapter two that night.

[02:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the 15th is the midnight.

[02:03:56] [SPEAKER_12]: Dory, go see it.

[02:03:57] [SPEAKER_12]: Leave 10 minutes in.

[02:03:58] [SPEAKER_12]: Watch the Powell and Pressburger movie.

[02:04:00] [SPEAKER_12]: Go back.

[02:04:00] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon will still be going.

[02:04:01] [SPEAKER_12]: You'll pick it up.

[02:04:03] [SPEAKER_04]: So I bring this up.

[02:04:05] [SPEAKER_12]: Jennifer Jones, right?

[02:04:05] [SPEAKER_12]: Is the star of this movie.

[02:04:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is a famous like David O. Selznick on amphetamines, like sending them a lot of studio notes.

[02:04:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:04:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Making them, you know, do a lot more close ups on Jennifer Jones, re-editing the movie two years later and releasing it under a different title.

[02:04:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But like anyway, incredible film.

[02:04:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And Michael Powell's widow is Thelma Schoonmaker, the great editor.

[02:04:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And she has been responsible for like, I guess, shepherding his legacy and getting.

[02:04:37] [SPEAKER_04]: She and Scorsese have spearheaded a lot of the restorations.

[02:04:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And she was in attendance at the screening at MoMA last night, just in the audience.

[02:04:48] [SPEAKER_04]: She didn't introduce it or anything.

[02:04:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And she was sitting behind me.

[02:04:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Cool.

[02:04:51] [SPEAKER_04]: A couple of rows.

[02:04:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:04:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like freaking out.

[02:04:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was taking a lot of selfies just to like get her in the background.

[02:04:56] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's like, you know, it's kind of not.

[02:04:59] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a little blurry.

[02:05:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And I kept sending to people.

[02:05:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God.

[02:05:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Thelma's behind me.

[02:05:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[02:05:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And everyone's like June Squibb.

[02:05:09] [SPEAKER_12]: She owns the name now.

[02:05:11] [SPEAKER_12]: Squibb's rocking it right now, man.

[02:05:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Squibb's rocking it.

[02:05:13] [SPEAKER_12]: We love Squibb.

[02:05:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Star of Scent of a Woman, June Squibb.

[02:05:18] [SPEAKER_00]: June Squibb's also the lead of Scarlett Johansson's directorial debut.

[02:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?

[02:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like there's all this press about Thelma's her first time in a leading role at like 94.

[02:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: She's not 94.

[02:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: She's 94 years old.

[02:05:32] [SPEAKER_01]: David?

[02:05:32] [SPEAKER_01]: She's 94?

[02:05:34] [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm saying.

[02:05:35] [SPEAKER_10]: I think she might be playing younger.

[02:05:39] [SPEAKER_10]: She's like an 88 year old.

[02:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: 94 is so fucking old.

[02:05:44] [SPEAKER_12]: She's kind of like needs to tell me her diet.

[02:05:47] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[02:05:48] [SPEAKER_12]: Given if that she's doing this well at 94.

[02:05:50] [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm saying she's got another one in the cam where she's the lead.

[02:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're saying Scarjo directed this?

[02:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Scarjo directed a movie that June Squibb's the lead in that they just finished filming in New York.

[02:05:58] [SPEAKER_12]: It's called Eleanor the Great.

[02:06:00] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[02:06:00] [SPEAKER_12]: And it's about a 90 year old.

[02:06:01] [SPEAKER_12]: So once again, she's way out of...

[02:06:03] [SPEAKER_12]: This is actually terrible casting.

[02:06:05] [SPEAKER_12]: Floridian woman who strikes up an unlikely friendship with a 19 year old student in New York City.

[02:06:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds a bit like Lost in Translation.

[02:06:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Perhaps.

[02:06:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Who's the 19 year old again?

[02:06:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Erin Kellyman, who's the girl from like Solo and stuff.

[02:06:19] [SPEAKER_12]: She's in Solo, right?

[02:06:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Enfys Nest.

[02:06:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[02:06:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Enfys Nest.

[02:06:23] [SPEAKER_12]: The very freckly one.

[02:06:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, she was Enfys Nest.

[02:06:25] [SPEAKER_12]: Enfys Nest.

[02:06:25] [SPEAKER_12]: And she would tell a G04 and Jessica Hecht.

[02:06:27] [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, it's a good cat.

[02:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Jessica Hecht.

[02:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: This episode's over.

[02:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: This has real...

[02:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Episode has been over energy.

[02:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It's weird to think about.

[02:06:53] [SPEAKER_12]: I feel like we're time traveling in a way.

[02:06:56] [SPEAKER_12]: That it's coming this soon, right?

[02:06:57] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[02:06:58] [SPEAKER_12]: It doesn't feel right.

[02:06:59] [SPEAKER_12]: But nothing about this movie feels totally right, I guess.

[02:07:02] [SPEAKER_12]: So that's the magic trick of Horizon, colon, an American saga, hyphen.

[02:07:07] [SPEAKER_12]: What?

[02:07:07] [SPEAKER_12]: After two?

[02:07:08] [SPEAKER_12]: I guess that's just, you know, that's just what he did.

[02:07:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Is this a Battlefield Earth level disaster for him?

[02:07:14] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[02:07:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Is it a Dances of a World of Trial for him?

[02:07:18] [SPEAKER_12]: Certainly not.

[02:07:19] [SPEAKER_10]: It's something weird in the middle.

[02:07:21] [SPEAKER_00]: No, he also keeps talking about the $100 million investment, and people took that as

[02:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: part one is $100 million, and then it started to sound more like, no, him shooting part one

[02:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and part two are $100 million.

[02:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And then recently, I read a quote from him that almost made it sound like $100 million is

[02:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: the whole endeavor.

[02:07:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's $100 million of his own personal investment.

[02:07:38] [SPEAKER_12]: That's, I believe, what he was saying.

[02:07:40] [SPEAKER_12]: I think he was kind of saying, like, I think I'm going to end up $100 million in the

[02:07:43] [SPEAKER_12]: whole when all is said and done.

[02:07:46] [SPEAKER_12]: But I also just don't know how much we should be listening to him about this.

[02:07:50] [SPEAKER_12]: Like, I assume he has accountants who are drinking many poisons as he continues to make

[02:07:55] [SPEAKER_12]: these movies.

[02:07:56] [SPEAKER_12]: But, like, they are the ones who actually know, like, what's at stake.

[02:08:00] [SPEAKER_12]: He's been clear, like, look, my children will not be penniless.

[02:08:04] [SPEAKER_12]: They just might not have my fancy waterfront properties.

[02:08:07] [SPEAKER_12]: He's also, as we have not mentioned, in the middle of a divorce.

[02:08:10] [SPEAKER_12]: And possibly he's just kind of draining the accounts.

[02:08:13] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't have any assets.

[02:08:17] [SPEAKER_10]: Sweetie, I'd love to give you money, but...

[02:08:20] [SPEAKER_10]: That might make its money back in time.

[02:08:22] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll give you a chapter.

[02:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You want one of the chapters?

[02:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: What if the divorce settlement is she gets chapter three?

[02:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[02:08:32] [SPEAKER_11]: He might try and take it all the way to chapter 11.

[02:08:38] Ben!

[02:08:39] [SPEAKER_12]: That was a little bankruptcy joke from old Hoaster.

[02:08:42] [SPEAKER_12]: Very funny from the Hoaster.

[02:08:43] [SPEAKER_12]: What's Kevin...

[02:08:44] [SPEAKER_12]: What's his Kevin Costner name?

[02:08:46] [SPEAKER_12]: We have one more part to figure this out.

[02:08:48] [SPEAKER_11]: Fuck, didn't we figure out what it was?

[02:08:51] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I think so.

[02:08:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Well...

[02:08:54] [SPEAKER_11]: It's, again, we've been recording these all so, like, scattered.

[02:08:57] [SPEAKER_04]: He stands with a vape.

[02:09:02] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't vape anymore.

[02:09:03] [SPEAKER_11]: He doesn't vape anymore.

[02:09:05] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't even freaking smoke anymore.

[02:09:07] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm sorry.

[02:09:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Stands with a chain?

[02:09:10] [SPEAKER_12]: The post-production man?

[02:09:12] [SPEAKER_10]: The post-production man.

[02:09:13] [SPEAKER_10]: That's kind of funny.

[02:09:14] [SPEAKER_10]: That's kind of funny.

[02:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of a thinker, but it's pretty good.

[02:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of a thinker.

[02:09:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben Hosley in American Saga Part 1.

[02:09:24] [SPEAKER_11]: Now that I like.

[02:09:26] [SPEAKER_00]: What was your joke you...

[02:09:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you wrote...

[02:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: When Marie and I bought tickets for Sunday afternoon,

[02:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: you wrote...

[02:09:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Horizalone?

[02:09:35] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, that's right.

[02:09:36] [SPEAKER_12]: You did.

[02:09:37] [SPEAKER_12]: And we were all like, huh?

[02:09:38] [SPEAKER_12]: What did that word?

[02:09:39] [SPEAKER_12]: Ben, what did autocorrect do to you?

[02:09:42] [SPEAKER_12]: It didn't make sense visually.

[02:09:44] [SPEAKER_11]: No, and it wasn't...

[02:09:46] [SPEAKER_11]: Hold on, let me see if I can get it just perfectly right.

[02:09:48] [SPEAKER_11]: And this is going to pay off in a huge way.

[02:09:50] [SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.

[02:09:51] [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you all for listening.

[02:09:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you to Mernie for being here,

[02:09:57] [SPEAKER_07]: helping to produce the show.

[02:09:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you to AJ McKeon for editing,

[02:10:01] [SPEAKER_07]: production coordinating.

[02:10:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Hallows...

[02:10:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, Hallowsen.

[02:10:08] [SPEAKER_11]: Hallowsen.

[02:10:09] [SPEAKER_10]: Griffin, whatever Griffin said was better.

[02:10:12] [SPEAKER_10]: Makes more sense, right?

[02:10:15] [SPEAKER_11]: I guess so.

[02:10:17] [SPEAKER_07]: You put the A after the H.

[02:10:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, because Alone is right in there.

[02:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Hallowsen.

[02:10:24] Hallowsen.

[02:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, J.J.

[02:10:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Birch, for doing the rare new release dossier

[02:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: for a movie that has 30-plus years of development.

[02:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Very good.

[02:10:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Very good.

[02:10:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you to Pat Reynolds,

[02:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Joe Bone, for artwork.

[02:10:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Lame, Mike, Army, The Great American,

[02:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Ola, for our theme song.

[02:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you to Kevin Costner

[02:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: for being the last true American.

[02:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Tune in next week for...

[02:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Record Scratch?

[02:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what Ben wanted to do.

[02:10:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I had on horse noise.

[02:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I thought you were going to place the noise,

[02:10:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and then afterwards,

[02:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying Record Scratch

[02:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: to make it clear what happened.

[02:10:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, cool.

[02:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think people have heard

[02:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: a perfect sound effect

[02:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: of a horse,

[02:11:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and by the way,

[02:11:01] [SPEAKER_00]: all of this is staying in.

[02:11:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[02:11:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And then me saying Record Scratch,

[02:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and everyone's confused.

[02:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.

[02:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the Blank Check guys fucked up.

[02:11:09] [SPEAKER_00]: They recorded an episode

[02:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: when they thought Horizon Part 2

[02:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: was going to come out one week later,

[02:11:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they never bothered to update it.

[02:11:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're wrong.

[02:11:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the addendum.

[02:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the fucking epilogue.

[02:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: We're back in the studio.

[02:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Not the epilogue.

[02:11:23] [SPEAKER_00]: The intermission.

[02:11:25] [SPEAKER_12]: Addendum.

[02:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Addendum to chapter one.

[02:11:28] [SPEAKER_12]: No, this is an addendum slash epilogue

[02:11:30] [SPEAKER_12]: for chapter one, of course,

[02:11:31] [SPEAKER_12]: but it's like,

[02:11:31] [SPEAKER_13]: it ain't over.

[02:11:32] [SPEAKER_12]: It's just taking a break.

[02:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: A week ago, we were rattled.

[02:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: We received the news

[02:11:38] [SPEAKER_00]: that Horizon, colon,

[02:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: an American saga,

[02:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: colon, chapter two

[02:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: had been removed from the schedule.

[02:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Not postponed.

[02:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Not postponed.

[02:11:46] [SPEAKER_12]: Not put on max.

[02:11:48] [SPEAKER_12]: Just, uh,

[02:11:49] [SPEAKER_12]: we're going to just whoop

[02:11:51] [SPEAKER_12]: for a minute

[02:11:52] [SPEAKER_12]: while we figure this out.

[02:11:53] [SPEAKER_12]: Date announced.

[02:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: That was the energy, right?

[02:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people

[02:11:56] [SPEAKER_00]: interpreted it as

[02:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: this movie is never coming out.

[02:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: The movie has been canceled.

[02:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, it'll come out in some form.

[02:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I saw some people doing that

[02:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of hand-wringing,

[02:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: which is wrong,

[02:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: which is part of why

[02:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: we're doing this to talk about

[02:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: the state of Horizon.

[02:12:07] [SPEAKER_00]: They said,

[02:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: we're removing it.

[02:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: The important line

[02:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: in the announcement was,

[02:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: like,

[02:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: we are rushing this thing

[02:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: to PVOD and max.

[02:12:17] [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, chapter one.

[02:12:18] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[02:12:18] [SPEAKER_12]: It's being put on PVOD and max,

[02:12:20] [SPEAKER_12]: uh, tomorrow,

[02:12:21] [SPEAKER_12]: actually,

[02:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: the other feeling was,

[02:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: well,

[02:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: this absolutely didn't work

[02:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: in theaters.

[02:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: If we're putting the-

[02:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It's weird,

[02:12:35] [SPEAKER_11]: because when I went to see it

[02:12:37] [SPEAKER_11]: at 10 o'clock at night

[02:12:39] [SPEAKER_11]: at a theater in Queens

[02:12:40] [SPEAKER_11]: by myself-

[02:12:41] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, no,

[02:12:42] [SPEAKER_10]: it wasn't.

[02:12:42] [SPEAKER_10]: It was filled with ghosts.

[02:12:43] [SPEAKER_10]: That's the thing.

[02:12:44] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yes.

[02:12:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Kostner always has to remind us

[02:12:46] [SPEAKER_12]: his biggest audience

[02:12:47] [SPEAKER_12]: is haunting, uh,

[02:12:49] [SPEAKER_12]: audiences.

[02:12:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Ghost audiences.

[02:12:50] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[02:12:51] [SPEAKER_12]: From, like,

[02:12:51] [SPEAKER_12]: frontier times.

[02:12:52] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[02:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: His key audience is ghosts

[02:12:54] [SPEAKER_00]: who still buy DVDs at Walmart.

[02:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And women.

[02:12:58] [SPEAKER_00]: How dare you?

[02:12:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And women.

[02:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Female ghosts who stole my DVDs.

[02:13:00] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon has made

[02:13:00] [SPEAKER_12]: 28 million worldwide.

[02:13:03] [SPEAKER_12]: 26 domestic,

[02:13:04] [SPEAKER_12]: one point something foreign.

[02:13:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Okay?

[02:13:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.

[02:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Doing okay.

[02:13:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they are correct

[02:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: in that they were like,

[02:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: look,

[02:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't know if this is

[02:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: ever going to work,

[02:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: but if we release chapter two

[02:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: in a month,

[02:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: it is going to die.

[02:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: A deeply embarrassing death.

[02:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: If you have to assume

[02:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: that no one's seen chapter two

[02:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: hasn't seen chapter one

[02:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and that some of the

[02:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: chapter one audience

[02:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: isn't returning for chapter two,

[02:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I do think Kostner's correct,

[02:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: which he's always said

[02:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: that his audience

[02:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: is not necessarily

[02:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: an opening weekend audience.

[02:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: An opening weekend audience.

[02:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: An older audience.

[02:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was throwing out

[02:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: as an example,

[02:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to,

[02:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[02:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[02:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben Simpson,

[02:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: producer of Thelma,

[02:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: a movie you and I both liked

[02:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: quite a lot.

[02:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Fun movie.

[02:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Um,

[02:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that movie is,

[02:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[02:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: very,

[02:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: very similar to the relationship

[02:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I have with my grandmother

[02:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: who is 94 would fucking

[02:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: love that movie.

[02:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It would probably make her cry

[02:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and she loves movies more

[02:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: than anything else

[02:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and has not been to a theater

[02:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: in five years.

[02:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And I cannot get her

[02:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: to go back to a theater.

[02:14:10] [SPEAKER_12]: She just,

[02:14:11] [SPEAKER_12]: and I have this with some

[02:14:12] [SPEAKER_12]: of my older relatives

[02:14:13] [SPEAKER_12]: as well as sort of like,

[02:14:14] [SPEAKER_12]: I kind of just got used

[02:14:15] [SPEAKER_12]: to not going

[02:14:16] [SPEAKER_12]: and it's on my TV

[02:14:17] [SPEAKER_12]: eventually anyway.

[02:14:18] [SPEAKER_12]: Absolutely.

[02:14:19] [SPEAKER_12]: And I keep yelling at them

[02:14:20] [SPEAKER_12]: and they,

[02:14:20] [SPEAKER_12]: they don't listen to me.

[02:14:21] [SPEAKER_12]: And also I'm like,

[02:14:22] [SPEAKER_12]: what else are you fucking doing?

[02:14:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Well,

[02:14:23] [SPEAKER_12]: this is my thing,

[02:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: but whatever,

[02:14:26] [SPEAKER_00]: but Ben was talking about like,

[02:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: oh,

[02:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know,

[02:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: it's going to VOD

[02:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and streaming soon.

[02:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And I,

[02:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you know,

[02:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: it's always a bad sign

[02:14:33] [SPEAKER_00]: if you announce the things

[02:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: to her.

[02:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I hope I'm not relaying

[02:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: anything that's,

[02:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[02:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: untoward here.

[02:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But like this battle

[02:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: that we're constantly

[02:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: talking about of like,

[02:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: if you announce

[02:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: the streaming date

[02:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: the week after your movie

[02:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: comes out,

[02:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: are you shooting yourself

[02:14:45] [SPEAKER_00]: in the leg?

[02:14:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said,

[02:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: no,

[02:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: for Thelma,

[02:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: there's genuinely

[02:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: a huge audience

[02:14:48] [SPEAKER_00]: for that movie

[02:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that was never going

[02:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: to go to theaters.

[02:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And that movie

[02:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: has done very well

[02:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: in theaters.

[02:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been one of the few

[02:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: successful,

[02:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: like genuine

[02:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: indie summer

[02:14:57] [SPEAKER_00]: counter-programming

[02:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: releases since the pandemic.

[02:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But no question

[02:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: that movie is going

[02:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: to explode on streaming

[02:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and VOD.

[02:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And that might

[02:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: happen with Horizon

[02:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: or it might not.

[02:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But it certainly

[02:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: is smarter

[02:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: to push it over

[02:15:12] [SPEAKER_00]: to those platforms

[02:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and let it play out

[02:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: that way for a bit

[02:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and see if there's a way

[02:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: to drum up more excitement

[02:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: for chapter two.

[02:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: When the news hit,

[02:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: my phone blew up.

[02:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I imagine you guys,

[02:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: David certainly

[02:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: had a similar thing.

[02:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Certainly all the various

[02:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Blank Chat group techs

[02:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: were blowing up

[02:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and people,

[02:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of people I know

[02:15:30] [SPEAKER_00]: were like,

[02:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: oh, you guys are fucked.

[02:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Did this fuck you over?

[02:15:33] [SPEAKER_00]: How much are you

[02:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: stressing out right now?

[02:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: As if.

[02:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Best thing to ever happen.

[02:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course,

[02:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: it makes it all

[02:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: way more interesting.

[02:15:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And some people

[02:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: are going to say

[02:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: like,

[02:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: cope shit,

[02:15:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you're fucking coping.

[02:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You're saying

[02:15:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not big mad.

[02:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Genuinely,

[02:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: this is the best outcome.

[02:15:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[02:15:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah,

[02:15:49] [SPEAKER_12]: I think one.

[02:15:50] [SPEAKER_12]: It's fascinating.

[02:15:51] [SPEAKER_12]: They're,

[02:15:52] [SPEAKER_12]: you know,

[02:15:52] [SPEAKER_12]: like immediately

[02:15:53] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm starting to see

[02:15:54] [SPEAKER_12]: on like,

[02:15:56] [SPEAKER_12]: you know,

[02:15:56] [SPEAKER_12]: film Twitter

[02:15:56] [SPEAKER_12]: and Letterboxd

[02:15:57] [SPEAKER_12]: and stuff,

[02:15:57] [SPEAKER_12]: people being like,

[02:15:59] [SPEAKER_12]: you know,

[02:16:00] [SPEAKER_12]: they came for Horizon

[02:16:01] [SPEAKER_12]: and I will now speak out.

[02:16:03] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon is going.

[02:16:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Horizon has gotten

[02:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: a new level

[02:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: of underdog status.

[02:16:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.

[02:16:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Like weird kind of

[02:16:08] [SPEAKER_12]: vanity,

[02:16:09] [SPEAKER_12]: like dad movie

[02:16:10] [SPEAKER_12]: to like,

[02:16:10] [SPEAKER_12]: like instant,

[02:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: weird cult classic.

[02:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: We thought there was

[02:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: a binary.

[02:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: We thought either

[02:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: this movie is going

[02:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: to have some weird

[02:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: sound of freedom

[02:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: out of nowhere

[02:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: over performance,

[02:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: which would have been

[02:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: an interesting

[02:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: cultural narrative,

[02:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: but not that interesting

[02:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: to our podcast

[02:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: other than Kevin

[02:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: proved them all wrong

[02:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: or it's going to

[02:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: just belly flop.

[02:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And it felt like

[02:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that's where we were

[02:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was kind

[02:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: of a sad note.

[02:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like,

[02:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: does he get to make

[02:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the other two?

[02:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Who fucking knows?

[02:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the most

[02:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: interesting note.

[02:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Much like Horizon

[02:16:39] [SPEAKER_00]: chapter one,

[02:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: our miniseries

[02:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: now is on

[02:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: an indefinite

[02:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: cliffhanger.

[02:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[02:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll be back.

[02:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But who knows when?

[02:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Who fucking knows?

[02:16:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And will we see it

[02:16:49] [SPEAKER_12]: in theaters

[02:16:49] [SPEAKER_12]: or will we watch it

[02:16:50] [SPEAKER_12]: on Max or will it

[02:16:51] [SPEAKER_12]: get shuttled over

[02:16:52] [SPEAKER_12]: to Crackle?

[02:16:53] [SPEAKER_12]: Like,

[02:16:53] [SPEAKER_12]: who knows?

[02:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not being

[02:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: insane here,

[02:16:56] [SPEAKER_00]: but like,

[02:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to a lot

[02:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: of people who were like,

[02:16:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of feel bad for him.

[02:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is a

[02:17:01] [SPEAKER_00]: conclusive failure.

[02:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: They'll eventually put

[02:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: part two in theaters

[02:17:04] [SPEAKER_00]: or streaming or whatever,

[02:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: but the dream is done.

[02:17:06] [SPEAKER_00]: He'll never make it

[02:17:06] [SPEAKER_00]: to part four.

[02:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not betting on him,

[02:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think it is stupid

[02:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: to bet against him.

[02:17:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And part of his strategy

[02:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: always for this shit

[02:17:15] [SPEAKER_00]: has been like,

[02:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: if people don't like it

[02:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: as a movie,

[02:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I recut it as a TV show

[02:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: in two years

[02:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I resell it

[02:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and I make more

[02:17:21] [SPEAKER_00]: of my money back.

[02:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I could totally see

[02:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: a scenario

[02:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: in which,

[02:17:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not betting on it,

[02:17:26] [SPEAKER_00]: but I could see

[02:17:26] [SPEAKER_00]: a scenario

[02:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: wherein

[02:17:29] [SPEAKER_00]: this does

[02:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: better than expected

[02:17:31] [SPEAKER_00]: on VOD and streaming.

[02:17:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They put chapter two

[02:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: on VOD or streaming.

[02:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: He spends a year or two

[02:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: building up the money

[02:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: to basically be able

[02:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: to sell back

[02:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: to Paramount Plus

[02:17:41] [SPEAKER_00]: or someone.

[02:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I will cut the first

[02:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: two chapters

[02:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: into episodic

[02:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: if you give me

[02:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: X amount of money

[02:17:46] [SPEAKER_00]: to do the rest

[02:17:48] [SPEAKER_00]: of the story

[02:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that I want to play out

[02:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: in TV

[02:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'll just design it

[02:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: for TV at that point.

[02:17:52] [SPEAKER_11]: Wait, hold on.

[02:17:54] [SPEAKER_11]: I could see that happening.

[02:17:55] [SPEAKER_11]: But you're saying

[02:17:55] [SPEAKER_11]: he would put out

[02:17:57] [SPEAKER_11]: part one as a movie.

[02:17:59] [SPEAKER_11]: Part one went to theaters

[02:18:00] [SPEAKER_11]: as a movie.

[02:18:00] [SPEAKER_11]: Then he would re-release

[02:18:02] [SPEAKER_11]: it as a series

[02:18:03] [SPEAKER_11]: including part one,

[02:18:04] [SPEAKER_11]: re-cut.

[02:18:05] [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe.

[02:18:06] [SPEAKER_11]: People have done this.

[02:18:07] [SPEAKER_11]: Chop it up

[02:18:07] [SPEAKER_12]: like Tarantino did that.

[02:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Tarantino did it

[02:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: with Hateful Eight.

[02:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: He's been saying

[02:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: he's going to do it

[02:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: once upon a time

[02:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: in Hollywood.

[02:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: He did it very quietly

[02:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: as an experiment

[02:18:14] [SPEAKER_00]: for Netflix.

[02:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Baz Luhrmann just did it

[02:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: with Australia,

[02:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: a movie he shot

[02:18:18] [SPEAKER_00]: 15 years earlier.

[02:18:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[02:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Re-cut as a miniseries

[02:18:21] [SPEAKER_00]: for Hulu.

[02:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a thing

[02:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that's been happening

[02:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: on a low level

[02:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and so many people

[02:18:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like their response

[02:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: to Horizon was

[02:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: if this is what

[02:18:28] [SPEAKER_00]: he wanted to make,

[02:18:28] [SPEAKER_00]: why didn't he do it

[02:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: as a TV show

[02:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: in the first place?

[02:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the answer

[02:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: is what David fucking said

[02:18:34] [SPEAKER_00]: in our main episode

[02:18:35] [SPEAKER_00]: chunk,

[02:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: which is like,

[02:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: fuck you.

[02:18:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Movies are better

[02:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: than TV.

[02:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's been saying

[02:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: TV is like long movies.

[02:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: He should make a movie

[02:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: that's like long TV.

[02:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It's time for like

[02:18:46] [SPEAKER_00]: the revenge, right?

[02:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But I also think

[02:18:48] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a certain strategy

[02:18:49] [SPEAKER_00]: to it where it's like

[02:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: he always could have

[02:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: sold this as television.

[02:18:53] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, for sure.

[02:18:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Why not try to make it

[02:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: a movie?

[02:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And if it fails,

[02:18:56] [SPEAKER_00]: then it's like,

[02:18:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I make it TV

[02:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: instead.

[02:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Versus if he made it TV

[02:19:00] [SPEAKER_00]: in the first place,

[02:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: that'd be depressing.

[02:19:03] [SPEAKER_12]: Here's my question, Griffin.

[02:19:05] [SPEAKER_12]: My Costner rankings

[02:19:06] [SPEAKER_12]: of the four films

[02:19:07] [SPEAKER_12]: he's directed.

[02:19:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, right.

[02:19:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Which we had put off

[02:19:10] [SPEAKER_12]: because we assumed

[02:19:10] [SPEAKER_12]: part two was coming.

[02:19:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Chapter two.

[02:19:12] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[02:19:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Do I put Horizon

[02:19:14] [SPEAKER_12]: over Dances with Wolves?

[02:19:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Is that a weird thing to do?

[02:19:17] [SPEAKER_12]: I think one cannot.

[02:19:21] [SPEAKER_12]: So it's Open Range

[02:19:22] [SPEAKER_12]: Dances with Wolves,

[02:19:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon,

[02:19:23] [SPEAKER_12]: American Saga,

[02:19:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Chapter One,

[02:19:25] [SPEAKER_12]: The Postman.

[02:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm doing.

[02:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:19:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm tempted to put

[02:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Postman over Horizon,

[02:19:31] [SPEAKER_00]: but only because

[02:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Horizon is not

[02:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: a complete movie.

[02:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It just kind of

[02:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: can't be judged.

[02:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I do think that.

[02:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like it resolved

[02:19:39] [SPEAKER_12]: all the different threads.

[02:19:41] [SPEAKER_12]: My only question is,

[02:19:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[02:19:43] [SPEAKER_12]: and we'll find out

[02:19:44] [SPEAKER_12]: I think one day,

[02:19:46] [SPEAKER_12]: does Chapter Two

[02:19:47] [SPEAKER_12]: have a little more

[02:19:48] [SPEAKER_12]: of an ending?

[02:19:49] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.

[02:19:49] [SPEAKER_12]: Because at least

[02:19:50] [SPEAKER_12]: Costner knew.

[02:19:51] [SPEAKER_12]: More storylines.

[02:19:52] [SPEAKER_12]: No, no, no.

[02:19:52] [SPEAKER_12]: Chapter One ends

[02:19:53] [SPEAKER_12]: with a trailer for Chapter Two,

[02:19:55] [SPEAKER_12]: which they were filming

[02:19:57] [SPEAKER_12]: of that footage.

[02:19:58] [SPEAKER_12]: But Chapter Three

[02:19:59] [SPEAKER_12]: obviously had just

[02:20:00] [SPEAKER_12]: sort of started work

[02:20:01] [SPEAKER_12]: when, you know,

[02:20:02] [SPEAKER_12]: so it's like,

[02:20:03] [SPEAKER_12]: does Chapter Two

[02:20:03] [SPEAKER_12]: have a little more

[02:20:04] [SPEAKER_12]: of a like,

[02:20:05] [SPEAKER_12]: okay,

[02:20:06] [SPEAKER_12]: there's more we can do

[02:20:07] [SPEAKER_12]: and there's more story

[02:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: to tell,

[02:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: but here's the end.

[02:20:10] [SPEAKER_00]: This is my big question.

[02:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: My big question is,

[02:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: in his grand narrative,

[02:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: do all the plotlines converge?

[02:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Does everyone make it

[02:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: to Horizon in Part Two

[02:20:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and then the story

[02:20:19] [SPEAKER_00]: is cooking for Parts Two,

[02:20:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Three, and Four?

[02:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Or is Horizon

[02:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone converging

[02:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: the end point

[02:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: of Chapter Four?

[02:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it the beginning

[02:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: of Chapter Three?

[02:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So the first two movies

[02:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: are set up?

[02:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there is

[02:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: no clarity on this.

[02:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: When he's been saying

[02:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I've already started

[02:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: filming Chapter Three,

[02:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I have since heard

[02:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: that possibly

[02:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: what he has shot

[02:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: is what would be

[02:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: the coming soon

[02:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: montage at the end

[02:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: of Chapter Two

[02:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that he basically shot,

[02:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: he like put up enough money

[02:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: to do like a week

[02:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: or less

[02:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: of like grabbing

[02:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: some elements

[02:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: to tee up Chapter Three,

[02:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: which then he was hoping

[02:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: to get the money

[02:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: from the first two

[02:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: to make.

[02:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't fucking know,

[02:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think this remains

[02:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the weirdest experiments

[02:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: in the history of Hollywood.

[02:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think

[02:21:04] [SPEAKER_00]: it's weird liminal space

[02:21:06] [SPEAKER_00]: outcome right now

[02:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: makes it even more interesting.

[02:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I,

[02:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the one thing

[02:21:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that's absolutely happening

[02:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: is some version

[02:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: of Chapter Two

[02:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: is coming out

[02:21:15] [SPEAKER_00]: because he has shot

[02:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: the entire fucking thing.

[02:21:18] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh yeah.

[02:21:19] [SPEAKER_12]: No one's seen it.

[02:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: There's no clarity

[02:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: on what level of cut exists.

[02:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But something's

[02:21:24] [SPEAKER_00]: going to come of it.

[02:21:25] [SPEAKER_12]: I think

[02:21:26] [SPEAKER_12]: it's going to be

[02:21:29] [SPEAKER_12]: released direct

[02:21:31] [SPEAKER_12]: to a streaming service

[02:21:32] [SPEAKER_12]: likely Max.

[02:21:33] [SPEAKER_12]: I think because there is

[02:21:34] [SPEAKER_12]: sort of an existing

[02:21:35] [SPEAKER_12]: relationship with WB

[02:21:36] [SPEAKER_12]: for these two movies.

[02:21:38] [SPEAKER_12]: It's possible

[02:21:39] [SPEAKER_12]: it could be

[02:21:40] [SPEAKER_12]: released first

[02:21:41] [SPEAKER_12]: direct to PBOD

[02:21:42] [SPEAKER_12]: and then Max.

[02:21:44] [SPEAKER_12]: The chances

[02:21:45] [SPEAKER_12]: of a theatrical release

[02:21:47] [SPEAKER_12]: seem slimmer.

[02:21:48] [SPEAKER_12]: I will say that

[02:21:49] [SPEAKER_12]: I have heard

[02:21:49] [SPEAKER_12]: that Costner's

[02:21:51] [SPEAKER_12]: original take

[02:21:53] [SPEAKER_12]: was

[02:21:54] [SPEAKER_12]: let's release

[02:21:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Chapter Two

[02:21:55] [SPEAKER_12]: more like

[02:21:56] [SPEAKER_12]: four months later.

[02:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Not six weeks apart.

[02:21:59] [SPEAKER_00]: His grand dream

[02:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: was to have

[02:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: four movies

[02:22:01] [SPEAKER_00]: come out in the span

[02:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: of 12 months

[02:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: four months apart.

[02:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when

[02:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: he hoped he'd be able

[02:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: to make all four

[02:22:06] [SPEAKER_00]: straight through.

[02:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And then instead

[02:22:08] [SPEAKER_00]: it became

[02:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: two movies

[02:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: six weeks apart

[02:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: which is

[02:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: really close.

[02:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: is really just

[02:22:14] [SPEAKER_12]: only allowed

[02:22:15] [SPEAKER_12]: if your first

[02:22:17] [SPEAKER_12]: part is

[02:22:18] [SPEAKER_12]: going to

[02:22:18] [SPEAKER_12]: really smash.

[02:22:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Like the second

[02:22:21] [SPEAKER_12]: Horizon underperformed

[02:22:22] [SPEAKER_12]: the idea of

[02:22:23] [SPEAKER_12]: releasing Chapter Two

[02:22:24] [SPEAKER_12]: like basically

[02:22:25] [SPEAKER_12]: a month later

[02:22:26] [SPEAKER_12]: seemed suicidal.

[02:22:27] [SPEAKER_12]: Like that's

[02:22:28] [SPEAKER_12]: that's

[02:22:29] [SPEAKER_12]: that's crazy.

[02:22:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Almost every time

[02:22:31] [SPEAKER_12]: someone has

[02:22:32] [SPEAKER_12]: done the split

[02:22:33] [SPEAKER_00]: sequel thing like this.

[02:22:35] [SPEAKER_12]: It's like

[02:22:35] [SPEAKER_00]: spring and fall

[02:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: like summer and winter.

[02:22:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:22:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Max Reloaded

[02:22:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Revolutions is

[02:22:41] [SPEAKER_00]: May and November.

[02:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: May, November.

[02:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: November.

[02:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Pirates did that

[02:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: too basically right?

[02:22:45] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[02:22:45] [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm saying is

[02:22:46] [SPEAKER_00]: almost every other time

[02:22:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it's different calendar years.

[02:22:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh sure.

[02:22:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Pirates did two years apart.

[02:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Pirates was July and May.

[02:22:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Back to the Future

[02:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: two and three were like

[02:22:54] [SPEAKER_00]: summer 89

[02:22:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and then spring 90.

[02:22:58] [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds right.

[02:22:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And uh

[02:22:59] [SPEAKER_00]: they're usually

[02:23:00] [SPEAKER_00]: less than a year apart

[02:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: but they put them

[02:23:02] [SPEAKER_00]: in different years.

[02:23:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Lord of the Rings

[02:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Harry Potter

[02:23:04] [SPEAKER_00]: all those things

[02:23:04] [SPEAKER_00]: it's like

[02:23:05] [SPEAKER_00]: same season

[02:23:05] [SPEAKER_00]: every year

[02:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: like clockwork.

[02:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: The six weeks

[02:23:09] [SPEAKER_00]: thing is kind of

[02:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: insane.

[02:23:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Infinity War

[02:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and uh

[02:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: fucking end game

[02:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: were like

[02:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: one year exactly

[02:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: apart.

[02:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Six weeks was

[02:23:17] [SPEAKER_00]: gonna be

[02:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: bold.

[02:23:19] [SPEAKER_11]: Whose decision

[02:23:20] [SPEAKER_11]: do you think that was?

[02:23:21] [SPEAKER_11]: Who decided on six weeks?

[02:23:23] [SPEAKER_11]: What was the strategy?

[02:23:24] [SPEAKER_11]: I think it was Warner Brothers.

[02:23:25] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[02:23:25] [SPEAKER_12]: I think it was them

[02:23:26] [SPEAKER_12]: kind of being like

[02:23:27] [SPEAKER_12]: look man

[02:23:27] [SPEAKER_12]: we've got our schedule.

[02:23:29] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.

[02:23:29] [SPEAKER_12]: You know

[02:23:29] [SPEAKER_12]: we've got Trap

[02:23:30] [SPEAKER_12]: we've got Beetlejuice

[02:23:31] [SPEAKER_12]: we've got you know

[02:23:32] [SPEAKER_12]: so like Horizon

[02:23:33] [SPEAKER_12]: is gonna go

[02:23:34] [SPEAKER_12]: where we want it to go.

[02:23:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Also their exposure

[02:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: is limited

[02:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: because Warner Brothers

[02:23:37] [SPEAKER_00]: just has a distribution

[02:23:39] [SPEAKER_00]: deal on this

[02:23:40] [SPEAKER_00]: so for them

[02:23:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was

[02:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: some degree of like

[02:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: can we use this

[02:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: as a guinea pig

[02:23:44] [SPEAKER_00]: for experimentation

[02:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: right?

[02:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And uh

[02:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the other part

[02:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: of it was

[02:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: truly that they were like

[02:23:51] [SPEAKER_00]: if they're six weeks apart

[02:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: we save on marketing spend.

[02:23:55] [SPEAKER_12]: Um

[02:23:55] [SPEAKER_12]: you basically have

[02:23:56] [SPEAKER_12]: one marketing campaign

[02:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: for the two movies.

[02:23:58] [SPEAKER_12]: You just decide one poster.

[02:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh

[02:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Fear Street

[02:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: which was

[02:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: the Netflix trilogy

[02:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: based on Earl Stein books

[02:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that at one point

[02:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: uh

[02:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: our friend Alex Ross Perry

[02:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: was in uh

[02:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: uh

[02:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: was attached to direct.

[02:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: That movie was

[02:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: originally developed at Fox

[02:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: before Disney acquired Fox

[02:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and that was supposed to be

[02:24:16] [SPEAKER_00]: this grand experiment

[02:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: for them of

[02:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: we're filming three movies

[02:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: with three different directors

[02:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: back to back to back

[02:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: the three directors

[02:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: will run their own

[02:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: post processes

[02:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: so that we can get them

[02:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: all finished at the same time

[02:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and they will be released

[02:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: in three consecutive

[02:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: months in theaters.

[02:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And this was back

[02:24:32] [SPEAKER_00]: in 18 or 19

[02:24:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and it felt like

[02:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: a radical idea

[02:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was like

[02:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Fox just wants to try it.

[02:24:37] [SPEAKER_00]: They want to see

[02:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: what in this weird

[02:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: mushing between

[02:24:41] [SPEAKER_00]: film and television

[02:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: is there a way

[02:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: to make

[02:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: a movie that feels

[02:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: like TV

[02:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and has people

[02:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: come back every month

[02:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and the question

[02:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: has always been

[02:24:48] [SPEAKER_11]: Can I ask?

[02:24:49] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[02:24:50] [SPEAKER_11]: Have people come back

[02:24:51] [SPEAKER_11]: every month?

[02:24:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Well what happened was

[02:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: instead in the pandemic

[02:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: they sold it to Netflix

[02:24:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and it just went up

[02:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: on Netflix

[02:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think they were

[02:24:58] [SPEAKER_00]: released two weeks apart

[02:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: or some shit

[02:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but it didn't have

[02:25:01] [SPEAKER_00]: the same thing

[02:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think the feeling

[02:25:03] [SPEAKER_00]: with these things

[02:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: being so close together

[02:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: is like either

[02:25:07] [SPEAKER_00]: the thing flops

[02:25:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and by the time

[02:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: the second one

[02:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: comes out

[02:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: people are like

[02:25:11] [SPEAKER_00]: what?

[02:25:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Or if the first one

[02:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: is successful

[02:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: are you cannibalizing it

[02:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: by having the second one

[02:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: come out and take screens

[02:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: away from the first one?

[02:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And the only thing

[02:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I can really think of

[02:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: that's kind of like this

[02:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: in like

[02:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: mainstream popular

[02:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: wide release studio

[02:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: theatrical strategy

[02:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: is the Star Wars

[02:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: re-releases

[02:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: of the special editions

[02:25:31] [SPEAKER_00]: in 97

[02:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: where they were like

[02:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Star Wars comes out

[02:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: in January

[02:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Empire Strikes Back

[02:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: comes out in February

[02:25:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Return of the Jedi

[02:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: comes out in March

[02:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: but it was very different

[02:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: because those are

[02:25:40] [SPEAKER_00]: archival movies

[02:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's different.

[02:25:43] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, obviously.

[02:25:44] [SPEAKER_11]: Just putting myself

[02:25:44] [SPEAKER_11]: in the viewer

[02:25:45] [SPEAKER_11]: myself

[02:25:46] [SPEAKER_11]: in the shoes

[02:25:47] [SPEAKER_11]: of the viewer

[02:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Put yourself in the shoes

[02:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: of the viewer

[02:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: which you were

[02:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: alone at a theater

[02:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: in a story

[02:25:51] [SPEAKER_11]: That's right

[02:25:51] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm like

[02:25:53] [SPEAKER_11]: oh I love this movie

[02:25:54] [SPEAKER_11]: and then the sequel

[02:25:55] [SPEAKER_11]: comes out

[02:25:55] [SPEAKER_11]: the next month

[02:25:57] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah

[02:25:57] [SPEAKER_11]: I guess if I really liked it

[02:25:59] [SPEAKER_11]: I would maybe

[02:26:00] [SPEAKER_11]: want to show up

[02:26:01] [SPEAKER_11]: I would be probably

[02:26:01] [SPEAKER_11]: more motivated

[02:26:02] [SPEAKER_11]: but wouldn't I just

[02:26:04] [SPEAKER_11]: also be motivated

[02:26:05] [SPEAKER_11]: if I liked the first one

[02:26:06] [SPEAKER_11]: to go see it a year later

[02:26:07] [SPEAKER_11]: I just

[02:26:08] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't understand it

[02:26:09] [SPEAKER_11]: like

[02:26:10] [SPEAKER_11]: even from like

[02:26:10] [SPEAKER_11]: a financial standpoint

[02:26:12] [SPEAKER_11]: couldn't you make

[02:26:12] [SPEAKER_11]: more money

[02:26:13] [SPEAKER_11]: by holding back

[02:26:14] [SPEAKER_11]: and then having

[02:26:15] [SPEAKER_11]: just the first

[02:26:16] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, here's the argument

[02:26:17] [SPEAKER_11]: go out and be streamed

[02:26:19] [SPEAKER_11]: or you know

[02:26:19] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know

[02:26:20] [SPEAKER_11]: I just

[02:26:20] [SPEAKER_00]: sold physically

[02:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why

[02:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that's what they're doing now

[02:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[02:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: which feels like

[02:26:26] [SPEAKER_00]: a course correction

[02:26:26] [SPEAKER_00]: to like

[02:26:27] [SPEAKER_00]: oh we've actually

[02:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: made a mistake

[02:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: by setting these movies up

[02:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: to not let chapter one

[02:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: have a full life cycle

[02:26:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and this would only work

[02:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: if chapter one

[02:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: was an out of the box

[02:26:37] [SPEAKER_00]: phenomenon in theaters

[02:26:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and the excitement

[02:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: was so high

[02:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: that basically

[02:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: people were like

[02:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I gotta see chapter two

[02:26:43] [SPEAKER_00]: immediately

[02:26:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and or

[02:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: by the time chapter two

[02:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: came out six weeks later

[02:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: people could be like

[02:26:49] [SPEAKER_00]: programming marathon screenings

[02:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: where it's like

[02:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a higher ticket price

[02:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: for six hours of Horizon

[02:26:54] [SPEAKER_00]: you sit

[02:26:54] [SPEAKER_00]: you watch both of them

[02:26:55] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think the answer is

[02:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: there was not a lot of confidence

[02:26:58] [SPEAKER_00]: in this movie

[02:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: they were like

[02:27:00] [SPEAKER_00]: look if it's a low key phenomenon

[02:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: if it has a rabid passion

[02:27:03] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's smaller

[02:27:04] [SPEAKER_00]: why not just get them

[02:27:06] [SPEAKER_00]: twice

[02:27:07] [SPEAKER_00]: in two months

[02:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: why not fold in

[02:27:09] [SPEAKER_00]: the marketing campaigns

[02:27:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and especially

[02:27:11] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're not the studio

[02:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that made the movie

[02:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: all of this is interesting

[02:27:16] [SPEAKER_12]: it's very interesting

[02:27:17] [SPEAKER_12]: it's going to work out

[02:27:18] [SPEAKER_12]: in some way

[02:27:20] [SPEAKER_12]: in some way

[02:27:21] [SPEAKER_12]: and

[02:27:22] [SPEAKER_12]: you know

[02:27:23] [SPEAKER_12]: 100% chance

[02:27:24] [SPEAKER_12]: chapter two will be seen

[02:27:25] [SPEAKER_12]: in some form

[02:27:26] [SPEAKER_12]: somewhere

[02:27:26] [SPEAKER_12]: the over under

[02:27:27] [SPEAKER_12]: on three and four

[02:27:29] [SPEAKER_12]: maybe

[02:27:31] [SPEAKER_12]: maybe

[02:27:31] [SPEAKER_12]: I hate to say this Kevin

[02:27:33] [SPEAKER_12]: is there some compromise

[02:27:34] [SPEAKER_12]: where you can just do

[02:27:35] [SPEAKER_12]: one finale movie

[02:27:37] [SPEAKER_12]: sure

[02:27:37] [SPEAKER_12]: rather than two

[02:27:39] [SPEAKER_12]: yeah

[02:27:39] [SPEAKER_12]: maybe that's the conversation

[02:27:41] [SPEAKER_12]: people start having

[02:27:42] [SPEAKER_12]: yeah

[02:27:43] [SPEAKER_12]: he obviously had this

[02:27:44] [SPEAKER_12]: whole pitch of like

[02:27:46] [SPEAKER_12]: you'll see

[02:27:46] [SPEAKER_12]: yeah

[02:27:47] [SPEAKER_12]: and you'll be hungry for more

[02:27:49] [SPEAKER_12]: and the ball will keep rolling

[02:27:51] [SPEAKER_12]: and now it's more of a sort of like

[02:27:53] [SPEAKER_12]: okay how can we

[02:27:54] [SPEAKER_12]: how can we get this done

[02:27:55] [SPEAKER_12]: in any way

[02:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: but that pitch was

[02:27:57] [SPEAKER_00]: as if

[02:27:58] [SPEAKER_00]: chapter one would be

[02:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: the greatest appetizer

[02:28:00] [SPEAKER_00]: you've ever had

[02:28:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and you'd be like

[02:28:01] [SPEAKER_00]: bring on the fucking main course

[02:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and especially

[02:28:04] [SPEAKER_00]: essentially

[02:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: it feels like chapter one

[02:28:06] [SPEAKER_00]: was handing out napkins

[02:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and silverware

[02:28:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and being like

[02:28:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I swear to god

[02:28:10] [SPEAKER_00]: what we're cooking up in the kitchen

[02:28:11] [SPEAKER_00]: is gonna be delicious

[02:28:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're like

[02:28:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin

[02:28:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so fucking hungry right now

[02:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and you've not fed me anything

[02:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: there's not even bread on the table

[02:28:18] [SPEAKER_12]: I want some bread

[02:28:19] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm hungry

[02:28:20] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm hungry too

[02:28:21] [SPEAKER_12]: uh goodbye

[02:28:22] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm wrapping this

[02:28:23] [SPEAKER_12]: oh

[02:28:23] [SPEAKER_12]: what else is there to say

[02:28:25] [SPEAKER_00]: hey

[02:28:25] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't know

[02:28:26] [SPEAKER_00]: well here's what I want to say

[02:28:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and I do think this is important to say

[02:28:29] [SPEAKER_00]: here's the other message

[02:28:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I got from a lot of people

[02:28:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that went along with like

[02:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: are you guys panicking right now

[02:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: there was a lot of hypothesizing

[02:28:36] [SPEAKER_00]: about well what are they gonna do

[02:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: how are they gonna fill this blank spot

[02:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: on the schedule

[02:28:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and here's the answer

[02:28:42] [SPEAKER_00]: next week David Lynch

[02:28:43] [SPEAKER_00]: yep

[02:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: we're going straight into a race

[02:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: right people thought

[02:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: we were gonna use this

[02:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: to put water world on main

[02:28:48] [SPEAKER_00]: to do a Ben's choice

[02:28:50] [SPEAKER_00]: to do any other kind of thing

[02:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: no guess what

[02:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: actually our schedule

[02:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: was a little crunched

[02:28:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and stressed

[02:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of fitting all this stuff in

[02:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: by the end of the calendar year

[02:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and this has given us

[02:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: a little breathing room

[02:28:59] [SPEAKER_00]: it's worked out great

[02:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: also quite possibly

[02:29:02] [SPEAKER_00]: we will have to loop around

[02:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and schedule Horizon Part 2

[02:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: sometime in the fall

[02:29:07] [SPEAKER_00]: yep

[02:29:07] [SPEAKER_00]: or next year

[02:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: who knows

[02:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: so right now

[02:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: everything is just moving up

[02:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: one week earlier

[02:29:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Eraserhead starts next week

[02:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: yep

[02:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: David Lynch

[02:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Twin Pods

[02:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Firecast with me

[02:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: horizon chapter 2

[02:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: question mark

[02:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: question mark

[02:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: question mark

[02:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: but whenever it happens

[02:29:21] [SPEAKER_00]: we will cover it

[02:29:22] [SPEAKER_00]: your Kevin Costner ranking

[02:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: we said

[02:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: my Kevin Costner ranking

[02:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I said

[02:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[02:29:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's

[02:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: been fun Kev

[02:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: he's the weirdest

[02:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: normal man

[02:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: in American history

[02:29:32] [SPEAKER_13]: I'm spinning this oil

[02:29:34] [SPEAKER_13]: right now

[02:29:35] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[02:29:35] [SPEAKER_13]: spinning

[02:29:36] [SPEAKER_13]: I'm spinning

[02:29:37] [SPEAKER_13]: I just think he's gonna

[02:29:38] [SPEAKER_00]: anytime people are like

[02:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: he's done

[02:29:40] [SPEAKER_00]: he's cooked

[02:29:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin's like

[02:29:42] [SPEAKER_00]: five years away

[02:29:43] [SPEAKER_00]: from like a surprise

[02:29:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and a second win

[02:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Big Kev

[02:29:47] [SPEAKER_00]: the cause

[02:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: what sandwich

[02:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: should I pick up

[02:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: on my way home

[02:29:50] [SPEAKER_00]: that's an incredible

[02:29:51] [SPEAKER_00]: question

[02:29:52] [SPEAKER_11]: what are you in the mood for

[02:29:53] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know

[02:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: turkey

[02:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: it's too bad

[02:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Blimpy's close

[02:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: ham

[02:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: we had one of the last

[02:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Blimpy's

[02:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that was mere blocks

[02:30:00] [SPEAKER_00]: away from our studio

[02:30:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and it closed

[02:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think a Blimpy's

[02:30:02] [SPEAKER_00]: is being good

[02:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I was joking

[02:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: the point is

[02:30:04] [SPEAKER_00]: it's maybe the worst

[02:30:05] [SPEAKER_00]: ever

[02:30:06] [SPEAKER_00]: it is the funniest thing

[02:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: in the 30 Rock season finale

[02:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: or the series finale

[02:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: when they're trying to tie up

[02:30:12] [SPEAKER_00]: all of the narrative threads

[02:30:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and they devote

[02:30:14] [SPEAKER_00]: 30% of the running time

[02:30:16] [SPEAKER_00]: of the finale

[02:30:16] [SPEAKER_00]: to

[02:30:18] [SPEAKER_00]: in the lunch rotation

[02:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: of who gets to pick

[02:30:20] [SPEAKER_00]: the lunch order

[02:30:20] [SPEAKER_00]: it landed on Lutz

[02:30:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and he wants Blimpy's

[02:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: right

[02:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and they just do

[02:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: everything they can

[02:30:25] [SPEAKER_00]: to block his choice

[02:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that sounds funny

[02:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: it's so good

[02:30:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I should rewatch

[02:30:30] [SPEAKER_12]: 30 Rock

[02:30:30] [SPEAKER_12]: yeah it rolls

[02:30:31] [SPEAKER_11]: okay

[02:30:32] [SPEAKER_11]: you know what's another

[02:30:33] [SPEAKER_11]: funny one

[02:30:33] [SPEAKER_11]: Quiznos

[02:30:34] [SPEAKER_12]: yeah

[02:30:35] [SPEAKER_12]: well Quiznos is like

[02:30:36] [SPEAKER_12]: gone

[02:30:37] [SPEAKER_12]: they are

[02:30:37] [SPEAKER_12]: so

[02:30:38] [SPEAKER_12]: both of them

[02:30:39] [SPEAKER_12]: barely exist

[02:30:40] [SPEAKER_12]: that was just

[02:30:41] [SPEAKER_12]: the weirdest one

[02:30:41] [SPEAKER_12]: where they were like

[02:30:42] [SPEAKER_12]: the sandwiches are bad

[02:30:43] [SPEAKER_12]: and I'm like

[02:30:43] [SPEAKER_12]: okay

[02:30:44] [SPEAKER_12]: but they're toasted

[02:30:45] [SPEAKER_12]: and I'm like

[02:30:46] [SPEAKER_12]: but they're bad

[02:30:47] [SPEAKER_12]: and they're like

[02:30:47] [SPEAKER_12]: yeah

[02:30:47] [SPEAKER_12]: but we did toast them

[02:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and what about

[02:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: your mascots

[02:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: they're ugly

[02:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: so they look bad

[02:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: yes but also

[02:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: they sound annoying

[02:30:56] [SPEAKER_12]: do you guys like

[02:30:57] [SPEAKER_12]: Subway

[02:30:57] [SPEAKER_12]: no

[02:30:57] [SPEAKER_12]: oh

[02:30:58] [SPEAKER_12]: oh shit

[02:30:59] [SPEAKER_12]: okay

[02:31:00] [SPEAKER_12]: well

[02:31:00] [SPEAKER_12]: it is that

[02:31:01] [SPEAKER_12]: but we did toast it though

[02:31:03] [SPEAKER_12]: and I'm like

[02:31:03] [SPEAKER_12]: uh-huh

[02:31:04] [SPEAKER_12]: here's the thing

[02:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: the toasting thing

[02:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: really worked on me

[02:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: of course it did

[02:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it worked on everyone

[02:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: for a year or two

[02:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and then that was that

[02:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: for one visit

[02:31:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I went too many times

[02:31:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Quiznos is one of these

[02:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: things where I feel like

[02:31:17] [SPEAKER_00]: the parent company

[02:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: has shut down

[02:31:19] [SPEAKER_00]: but individual

[02:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: franchisees exist

[02:31:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're basically

[02:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: lawless

[02:31:25] [SPEAKER_00]: the last time

[02:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I went

[02:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: it's kind of like

[02:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: a horizon situation

[02:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: exactly

[02:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: gone beyond the borders

[02:31:30] [SPEAKER_00]: there was a Quiznos

[02:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: near the AMC 34th street

[02:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: that I think finally closed

[02:31:34] [SPEAKER_00]: sure

[02:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that was like

[02:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the one still left

[02:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: in Manhattan

[02:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: that I would go to

[02:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes if I was

[02:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: seeing a movie there

[02:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and the last time

[02:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I went

[02:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: the guy who was

[02:31:42] [SPEAKER_00]: working the register

[02:31:43] [SPEAKER_00]: was not only not

[02:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: wearing any of the

[02:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: like Quiznos

[02:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: like shirt hat

[02:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: the things that signify

[02:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that this person

[02:31:49] [SPEAKER_00]: works here

[02:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: right

[02:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: he was wearing

[02:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: his backpack

[02:31:52] [SPEAKER_12]: oh cool

[02:31:53] [SPEAKER_12]: he was just standing

[02:31:53] [SPEAKER_12]: at the register

[02:31:54] [SPEAKER_00]: with the backpack

[02:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was like

[02:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: did you just get here

[02:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: are you about to leave

[02:31:58] [SPEAKER_00]: do you just not care

[02:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and it

[02:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Quiznos felt like horizon

[02:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: it felt like a town

[02:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: of possibility

[02:32:03] [SPEAKER_12]: he had to

[02:32:04] [SPEAKER_12]: keep his stuff

[02:32:05] [SPEAKER_12]: on his back

[02:32:06] [SPEAKER_12]: that's why he had

[02:32:06] [SPEAKER_12]: the backpack

[02:32:07] [SPEAKER_12]: sure

[02:32:07] [SPEAKER_12]: I just looked up

[02:32:08] [SPEAKER_12]: the nearest Quiznos

[02:32:09] [SPEAKER_12]: where is it

[02:32:09] [SPEAKER_11]: it was in Connecticut

[02:32:10] [SPEAKER_11]: great

[02:32:11] [SPEAKER_11]: how far

[02:32:11] [SPEAKER_11]: are we talking

[02:32:12] [SPEAKER_11]: western or eastern

[02:32:13] [SPEAKER_11]: baby

[02:32:13] [SPEAKER_11]: it is in

[02:32:15] [SPEAKER_11]: uh

[02:32:16] [SPEAKER_11]: orange Connecticut

[02:32:17] [SPEAKER_11]: that's not that close

[02:32:19] [SPEAKER_11]: no

[02:32:19] [SPEAKER_11]: orange is pretty far

[02:32:21] [SPEAKER_12]: that's kind of

[02:32:22] [SPEAKER_12]: near New Haven

[02:32:23] [SPEAKER_12]: like that's in the

[02:32:23] [SPEAKER_12]: middle of there

[02:32:24] [SPEAKER_11]: and so by car

[02:32:25] [SPEAKER_11]: it is uh

[02:32:27] [SPEAKER_11]: I'd say good

[02:32:28] [SPEAKER_11]: two and a half

[02:32:28] [SPEAKER_11]: yeah

[02:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a patreon app

[02:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a slot filled

[02:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: in 2025

[02:32:32] [SPEAKER_00]: why the fuck

[02:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: would we go to Quiznos

[02:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: because we brought it up

[02:32:35] [SPEAKER_00]: in this episode

[02:32:36] [SPEAKER_00]: what do you mean

[02:32:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that's not enough

[02:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: of a reason

[02:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: what kind of question

[02:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: is that

[02:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: it's lore now

[02:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: because we brought it up

[02:32:41] [SPEAKER_12]: in this episode

[02:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: it's lore now

[02:32:43] [SPEAKER_00]: wait a second

[02:32:44] [SPEAKER_00]: this is weird

[02:32:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I just got an old flyer

[02:32:46] [SPEAKER_00]: from a mysterious source

[02:32:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm looking at it

[02:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and it just says

[02:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Quiznos

[02:32:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Orange Connecticut

[02:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: you know what I'm gonna do

[02:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna pack up

[02:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: my fucking wagon

[02:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Rabeasey did that

[02:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and journey

[02:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that's just Rabeasey

[02:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: he just printed that out

[02:33:02] [SPEAKER_00]: this guy

[02:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: he's fucking

[02:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: printing flyers

[02:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: he's shooting movies

[02:33:05] [SPEAKER_00]: he's fucking

[02:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: lensing

[02:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: indie horror

[02:33:08] [SPEAKER_12]: oh that guy

[02:33:09] [SPEAKER_12]: lenses

[02:33:10] [SPEAKER_12]: like no other

[02:33:12] [SPEAKER_12]: yeah

[02:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: David is on his phone

[02:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm literally

[02:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: ordering a sandwich

[02:33:15] [SPEAKER_00]: thank you all

[02:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: for listening

[02:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: to our Kevin Costner

[02:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: series

[02:33:19] [SPEAKER_00]: yep

[02:33:19] [SPEAKER_12]: the same sense

[02:33:20] [SPEAKER_00]: of closure

[02:33:21] [SPEAKER_00]: that the last

[02:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Costner movie

[02:33:23] [SPEAKER_00]: had

[02:33:23] [SPEAKER_00]: we leave you

[02:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: we leave you

[02:33:26] [SPEAKER_00]: with nothing

[02:33:27] [SPEAKER_00]: but a sort of

[02:33:28] [SPEAKER_12]: whisper of

[02:33:29] [SPEAKER_12]: exactly

[02:33:30] [SPEAKER_12]: yes

[02:33:30] [SPEAKER_12]: of what could

[02:33:31] [SPEAKER_12]: happen next

[02:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[02:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: just imagining

[02:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: the kind of

[02:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: sleepy time

[02:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: sex scenes

[02:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that might be

[02:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: coming

[02:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: should

[02:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin ever

[02:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: finish

[02:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: his saga

[02:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: oh god

[02:33:39] [SPEAKER_12]: he's gonna get

[02:33:40] [SPEAKER_12]: laid so weird

[02:33:41] [SPEAKER_12]: next time

[02:33:43] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know

[02:33:43] [SPEAKER_12]: how

[02:33:44] [SPEAKER_12]: but it's gonna

[02:33:45] [SPEAKER_12]: happen

[02:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: tune in next

[02:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: week for

[02:33:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Eraserhead

[02:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: uh

[02:33:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that's right

[02:33:49] [SPEAKER_00]: no you're

[02:33:50] [SPEAKER_00]: not wrong

[02:33:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not gonna

[02:33:51] [SPEAKER_00]: repeat the credits

[02:33:52] [SPEAKER_00]: because we did

[02:33:52] [SPEAKER_00]: it before

[02:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: in the original

[02:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: part of the

[02:33:54] [SPEAKER_00]: episode

[02:33:54] [SPEAKER_00]: honestly

[02:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: you just need

[02:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: to record

[02:33:56] [SPEAKER_00]: the credits

[02:33:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and we put

[02:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: them at the

[02:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: end of the

[02:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: episode

[02:33:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie was

[02:33:58] [SPEAKER_00]: supposed to

[02:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: be here

[02:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: she showed

[02:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: up in studio

[02:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and then she

[02:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: puked a bunch

[02:34:01] [SPEAKER_12]: yeah for an

[02:34:01] [SPEAKER_12]: episode that's

[02:34:02] [SPEAKER_12]: coming out

[02:34:02] [SPEAKER_12]: in fucking

[02:34:03] [SPEAKER_12]: December

[02:34:03] [SPEAKER_12]: we miss

[02:34:04] [SPEAKER_12]: you

[02:34:04] [SPEAKER_12]: Marie

[02:34:04] [SPEAKER_00]: November

[02:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[02:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: miss you

[02:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie

[02:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: feel better

[02:34:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and as always

[02:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I think

[02:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin's gonna

[02:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: pull it off

[02:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: we're getting

[02:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: all four

Horizon: An American Saga - Chapter 1

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