Incredibles 2

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to express All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check That's what we are Couple Rapscallions You know what that was?

[00:00:37] You showing what a great job Brad Bird does is the voice of Edna Mode I'm not being mean, I'm just saying like it's not as easy as it sounds to do a funny voice But I think that wasn't Oh my god

[00:00:49] And for the listener at home, apparently it's not as easy as it seems to not knock a cup of ice onto Ben's mixing board Two little chips of ice It's fine, it's fine A Dunkin Donuts cup with nothing but ice Directly onto a mixing board Yellow card

[00:01:07] Oh there we go This is what I like, we're gonna get regimented here We're gonna get serious about this podcast Oh there's gonna be a card system You would collect like eight red cards in episode David, I have been avoiding having this conversation Throwing up red card

[00:01:23] I feel like you have gotten too lax, too loose Because of your wild erratic behavior This podcast has gone off the rails And we have to start regulating it So Ben's instituted a card system that is never gonna bite me in the ass

[00:01:40] Starting on this episode, cards will be handed out for infractions I expect to have a goose egg Sure By the end of the year A goose egg In terms of what do they call it? Bowling? Yeah, is goose egg bowling? No

[00:01:56] It's an egg that comes out of a goose I mean like, what? Not a spare, what do they call it when you get nothing in bowling? I expect to have no cards, that's my point No I understand now, I'm actually trying to remember

[00:02:08] I don't want to go on about this too long Because that could get me an infraction I don't want one No cards For the record David has one yellow card Hello everybody A gutter? Yeah, gutter, I don't know It might, they call it a duck My god

[00:02:20] It's like you're cruising for a card right now Watch yourself Fucking brought up the United Kingdom already Why? Why is that weird for you to bring up? It's the world cup Everyone's talking about a bunch of countries Exactly, and that's why Yeah, I don't understand why

[00:02:36] It's odd that he would make such a point About him bringing up a thing that anyone would bring up It just seems like a tangent I'm testing low limits of the card system Watch yourself No tangent Hello everybody, my name's Griffin Newman David Sims I'm filing papers here

[00:02:53] Like a serious newsman Which is funny because my name is now going to be Griffin Newman Give me a great new character Thank you This podcast This is a podcast This podcast I've been listening back to episodes

[00:03:08] Because I've been filming a TV show which no one should do Bad idea So I've been listening to these episodes from months ago Without recording new episodes You too And it is astonishing how much I don't Clearly pronounce any of the words in the introduction anymore

[00:03:25] I just barreled through Filmography, dredges, and math And of course a mini series called the podcastables Yes, we're looking at director's filmographies Oh I just said all of that Yeah, of course Clearly A mini series on the films of Brad Bird And this is the final question mark

[00:03:45] He's out No, teasing something later Making the highest I'm teasing something that we'll reveal later This is the final Brad Bird film The most recent Brad Bird film A film so recent Oh it's hot off the presses It's breaking box office records as we speak

[00:04:02] Biggest opening weekend for an animated film Biggest Monday for an animated film Biggest Tuesday for an animated film Probably the highest grossing animated film ever made Right? Like I'm assuming It will It's following the Dory path So it'll beat it It's zoomed and passed it Yeah, it is

[00:04:19] I mean Disney is gonna have like three films gross Over $500 million domestically within four months Yeah That's insane That's the thing they released a giant flop And they're just sort of like whatever Well cause look It wasn't a giant flop, it was a moderate

[00:04:34] But that was the thing, like looking at the schedule last year It was like Jesus Christ Disney has Black Panther, Infinity War, Solo And Incredibles all coming out within like four months They're gonna have four billion dollar movies Right, and so they have three They have three

[00:04:47] And I was talking to a Disney person Not that long ago And I was like But then after Incredibles like Yeah, there's a little bit of a gap Right between that and the Winnie the Pooh movie And they were like No, it was Ant-Man like three weeks later

[00:04:59] And I was like right Like that's gonna make a ton of money Yeah Yeah, it just never ends And I think I wanna go on the record here I think Winnie the Pooh is gonna break The opening weekend record for

[00:05:12] A movie written by a former blank check guest Shit, I think you're right I think it'll also It's also gonna smash the Pooh universe I don't know Yes, you're right You're totally right Right, because my number two The prior record is I don't know what

[00:05:29] Like ListenUpFillip probably opened Like 200k Yeah I don't wanna misrepresent Don't get mad at me, Alec Okay Oh, you know what I forgot about Trolls Oh, that's right, his trolls Oh, yeah, Richard Trolls Richard Lawson's trolls ListenUpFillip opened at 23k So if anything, I was over-inflating Yeah

[00:05:49] You know, in two theaters Yeah, I think Pooh's gonna clear that You think so? You think it'll be there? Yeah Okay, fair enough This is incredible, too It's burning up the charts But what do we think about it? Because we're connoisseurs of context

[00:06:01] And we've been digging into this bird filmography Or at least we did dig into this bird filmography Four and a half years ago We were talking about like Reading Player One on those episodes Which were like Interesting Could be good, who knows

[00:06:14] We're literally like speculating on the quality Of a movie that just like posted a trailer Don't we in the Iron Giant episode Comment on Disney having just bought Star Wars? What are they gonna do with that property? Yeah, I've actually appreciated listening back

[00:06:32] To our bird episodes which he did record We did record it a while ago Because yeah, it helped me think about this movie Yeah, certainly Sweetenly Certainly But it is weird as you said When we were recording these episodes There was like a teaser trailer for Incredibles

[00:06:46] And now the movie is here I think you like it a lot more than I do I think so because you ranked it below Finding Dory Now here's the thing On the Twitter.com Here's the thing And I saw that and I was like I made that noise

[00:07:01] Alec Baldwin, here's the thing I like finding Dory a lot more than most people So I think people saw that ranking And were like, oh god he hates it that much Which it's like far from it I think it's on the exact same tier

[00:07:15] As Monsters University and Finding Dory Three movies I like a lot I think are solid interesting sequels To like perfect movies Right, I think Right, I mean I think we have This is the thing I was like Pixar rankings

[00:07:30] To me this is the third best Pixar movie ever made That's insane But that's basically how I feel about this stuff Behind the two Brad Bird movies Yeah, you are much more of a Brad Bird fandom They are the Brad Bird

[00:07:41] Right, they are the Pixar movies for me Yeah, that's crazy I like Toy Story Well yeah, I mean that's great Can we be very clear about that? Sure, let's be frank Okay Like Toy Story 2 Sure, okay Perfectly with the grace A pinnacle of American cinema

[00:08:01] And then I think Finding Nemo is really pretty I like the Pete Doctor movies By and large but I don't think I love them I like them a lot I'm getting so angry just here right now And then I really like Wally

[00:08:11] I was like there's one other Pixar movie I really do think is terrific And that's Wally It's called Wally It's about a rabbit Yeah, it's about a couple of rabbits It's about a rabbit in love Let's be frank Young Rebets in Love

[00:08:23] Right, I come at this from a very different angle From you because I'm not just looking at These films within the bird canon But also the Pixar canon I'm very interested in the arc of Pixar As a company which we've talked about A lot on this miniseries

[00:08:36] We have Yeah And you know the thing I find frustrating About them right now is I'm very interested to see I mean at the time we were recording this Pete Doctor was just announced Within the last 48 hours to be taking over Pixar Seems like an appropriate hire

[00:08:50] Right, he's institutional But he's I don't know I feel like he pushes to make interesting things I do too Right, yeah, I don't know I don't immediately see what will happen next With him taking over But I think he's a solid choice Well, probably nothing immediately

[00:09:05] I'm saying I can't immediately imagine What the next five years will look like What have they got coming up Pixar? Well, it's like a kind of a question mark Toy Story 4 is supposed to come out next year They hired a new writer two months ago

[00:09:17] To rewrite most of the movie That thing which we'll get into Has been pushed back a lot They've gone through many writing teams Last year was supposed to direct it He dropped out before getting Pushed out of his own company So Josh Cooley is directing it

[00:09:34] He's just sort of like a Pixar career man He's like a good Pixar story guy I think he's co-directed a couple of their films But then there's a Dan Scanlon, my fuck-campus name Who directed Monsters University Has an original film that's set in a fantasy universe

[00:09:53] That still hasn't officially been announced But they have two untitled films in 2020 Right, I think one of those is supposed to be the Scanlon Move And the other one hasn't been announced Another one for 2021 And then two more for... Yeah, but this is right It's all a mystery

[00:10:10] Disney just claiming dates Which they might replace one of those With Mulan or whatever It's like it's all a chess board for them Of just making sure they have all the prime Sort of like tentpole dates It's a big question mark

[00:10:27] The one thing they keep on saying in interviews Is because people have complained about how many sequels They're constantly looking forward Toy Story 4 is the only sequel Pixar has In development right now They claim that there's spade original films coming up

[00:10:45] Right, because they don't have a lot of obvious sequels They could do now No I mean I guess they could do finding Marlin I don't fucking know Like finding that Starfish Doing Incredibles 3 seems more viable than any of the other ones

[00:10:59] Well, Incredibles 3 is it feels like a movie that actually should exist Because these movies feel a lot more like there's this big story being told Right Whereas like right it's like if they made a Finding Dory sequel

[00:11:12] It would be like wait the ocean we got to find something Like it's not like Finding Dory ends where you're like I can't wait to find out like where this goes No and I was one of those people who was really angry

[00:11:23] When they announced Finding Nemo because I'm like Finding Nemo You mean Dory I was very angry because Nemo ends Perfect Great ending And I was just like fucking book clothes put it on the shelf Done

[00:11:36] Was angry about it hearing it's Finding Dory is like that just sounds like a dumb flip Yeah And there are things in that movie that drive me crazy I think the first 30 minutes suck I think it's not great I know you don't like it

[00:11:48] I think it's gentleman 6 territory like at best I think it's like a gentleman 7.5 That's what you think this is too That's no good Alright go on I think this movie is about the same I think the difference is the last 30 minutes of Monsters University or Brawl

[00:12:03] Which you've never talked about on this podcast Never Yeah Finding Dory I do go like You know what I think they actually found some good angles to it And I think they came up with some things that actually deep in the first movie

[00:12:14] In an interesting way which is the same thing I like about Monsters University It's not super necessary but I think they found the most interesting sequel they can make I just can't remember anything about Finding Dory Like I really can Sounds like you got a door Oh boy

[00:12:27] Now wait what the hell Sorry take 6 Sounds like you have a bit of a Dory problem there I And before we get into this movie But do you get the joke I was making? Memory issues Okay now take 27

[00:12:40] Maybe you should have the inside out emotions help you with that one Because they have the memory balls Do you remember that? Ben just bleeped that out for his sake It's right I'm very close He's got an imaginary card I'm very close I'm sorry cut all the takes

[00:12:58] Cut it out One more picks our question What do you think of Cars 3? Well here's the thing that I find interesting David you too You know where this is going to go Now commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Do I have to answer the question now that he's asked

[00:13:18] Will I get an infraction for answering the question The fans are baying for him to answer this question right now Answer the question Cars 2 makes Cars 3 you look like Cars 1 Is that what it is? I literally couldn't even

[00:13:30] It took me a second because I didn't want to get a red card For mingling my own joke I don't think any of us would remember I just think the big picks our problem

[00:13:41] Is that people talk a lot about how Lasseter kind of created a boys club environment there Which he literally did in terms of just not letting women rise up to higher positions of power But the other problem is he has his old friends that he brought with him

[00:13:55] And he did not incubate new talent in a major way He trusts his old guys and right he struggled to They did have you know like They had that system where it's like Uncritch is a co-director And he gets sort of kicked up to direct right

[00:14:09] But Uncritch was there from Toy Story You know I understand And most of those guys didn't rise through the ranks Like Bob Peterson who was one of their big story guys And co-directors forever developed good dinosaur Got pushed off of it Jan Pinkovo was a similar thing

[00:14:22] I know you You know and there are a lot of guys like that There's a little sink or swim over there Yeah I mean it's a Silicon Valley company Ralph Eggleston, there are all these guys who have been there since like 1995

[00:14:33] And you also have a lot of guys like What's his name Doug Sweetland who is one of their best animators Who did Presto Sure And everyone's like Love Presto When are they gonna hand him a movie? So funny He's been there since the beginning

[00:14:45] When are they gonna hand him a movie? Oh boy we gotta talk about Bow We all talk about Bow You see that dumpling movie? Yeah Yeah we're gonna talk about it Crone and Bergen No no no it's not Keep your opinion We'll talk about it

[00:14:56] What happens to Doug Sweetland? I don't know He goes over and makes Storks for Warner Brothers They let all these guys get away And then they made shitty movies at other studios People kinda like Storks I guess I don't know Do people like I don't remember

[00:15:09] I tried watching it because I like Sweetland But like they just weren't giving these people opportunities And if they did it was like Congratulations you get to make Cars 3 Like you get to inherit someone else's franchise You know? So there is this weird factor of like

[00:15:24] They don't have new original movies being developed Because Pete Docter was the only guy who was still there Stanton and Bird felt like they kinda wanted to move on And then had to come back and like Okay I guess I go back to my original franchise at Pixar

[00:15:35] The movie I know I can get made With total creative freedom And this is kind of It feels like that movie for Bird This is the Safe Rebound He also, you know he had said For years and years and years Because everyone's always asking

[00:15:48] When are you gonna make Incredibles 2 I don't wanna make a sequel for the sake of making a sequel I'll make it when I have a great idea It feels like Brad Bird It's sort of the bird move Felt a little convenient that that great idea

[00:15:58] Came to him right after Tomorrowland bought Sure Yes And yet This movie does feel like he's wrestling with the Tomorrowland shit again I agree So I do, even if it maybe You had to make this movie now I do feel like he's like

[00:16:12] I still got all that Tomorrowland juice I wanna sort out Tomorrowland and Incredibles 2 Kind of feel like Two Sides at the same coin for me I agree Oh, now in terms of quality Just in terms of ideas This is a better movie than Tomorrowland Yeah, but it's

[00:16:24] But I like Tomorrowland Yeah, I mean, look I re-listened to our Tomorrowland episode And was Great up Even myself astonished when we got to a gentleman's B plus Well, you know, I was like Wait, we did it I was talking to my brother about it Yeah

[00:16:38] And he was like I love the episode But I do feel like I like the movie more than you And I was like, no We both like the movie It's just if you talk about the movie You just have to acknowledge all the shit

[00:16:47] That doesn't work about it And listening to us And yet it's such a special weird movie That you do kind of like it And I kind of like the fact that it's fucking broken Yeah In its own weird way Weird ass broken robot

[00:17:00] Right, but like listening to the episode Listening to us talk about all the problems with it I was like, this movie is a disaster But then I think back to how I feel watching it And I'm like He is just such a symphonic film Yes I remember

[00:17:13] What was the season where 30 Rock was kind of shaky Was it like four or five Yeah, I think four Where they had like a really off season Sure And I remember Nathan Ray been writing this piece about it Where he was like

[00:17:22] The problem is that like 30 Rock is so well made The cast is so good It's well shot The music is good That even when it's bad It's just fucking enjoyable to watch Which also makes it more frustrating When the writing isn't there Right

[00:17:36] When it feels like they're off And like Brad Bird is kind of like that Where he's just such a symphonic filmmaker That like even when Tomorrowland is like completely Like it's like a Tesla catching on fire underneath the hood Right You're like, but this thing looks so good

[00:17:49] It feels smooth And I'm told that it's good for the environment You know Have you seen that video of like Mary McDonald's? Yeah, it's insane Yeah, it's fun But that's the thing And I feel like So I had this thing watching Incredibles 2 Right And I admit

[00:18:06] I mean, it's a filming I don't want to make a TV show I'm very stressed out right now You're all stressed out I'm very stressed out We're gonna talk about this But yeah, okay So where did you see it? Did you see a diaper cinema?

[00:18:15] I didn't see it at the diaper cinema Okay, fine Saw it at the E-Walk in Times Square With the great theater now With that little desk Great theater now Great seats I love that theater I got the seat I wanted That theater is like kind of secretly

[00:18:26] The best multiplies It's sort of become Very recently the best one I got a perfect seat I saw it in 2D The crowd was a good mix Of adults and families Yeah Because it's like Well, I don't want to see a Pixar movie Just with fucking kids

[00:18:40] But I also don't want to see a Pixar movie Just with fucking grown-ups Ben, of course, nailed it By seeing a Pixar movie Just with fucking teenagers Yeah, and I'm also about to turn 33 years old Congratulations Birthday Benny Yeah Okay, the Ben Deustre When this comes out

[00:18:56] Oh, okay Poet Lori at the house When this comes out It'll be officially my birthday Tiebreaker Fart Detect with Meat Lover I was surrounded by high school kids Feeling very much like My own aware of my own mortality And it just was really hard to hear

[00:19:11] Like teens sort of teetering And snickering Fuckmaster, don't call him Professor Christy Themselves I guess what it's certain tells are Of the course of different ways It's just a color, color, and color And it's fine Ben, I trauma on Ben's 8 Say Ben anything that that that

[00:19:23] I was able to enjoy the movie Nonetheless Ben, I'm the female maker Ben, I'm the fish And got out of there pretty quick But you did text us But I was self-aware You texted us like Going in grumpy Yeah Exactly I hate teenagers

[00:19:36] Going in with a bad attitude Bunch of teens around me I'm so old I felt very like weird As just an old guy by himself Sitting, you know Amongst the children Mr. Ben credible Yeah I sat there I was like I think I've created

[00:19:50] The best circumstance in my time You're like this movie This seems like a good vibe Right And I sat there the whole time There was never a moment that Made me angry the way That Tomorrowland makes me angry But I will also say There was not a moment

[00:20:02] Where the movie felt transcendent for me Okay So I sat there the entire time Being like this is good He's not fucking it up I'm waiting for it to click Into that bird magic And instead the magic for me Was just good filmmaker This movie smooth

[00:20:15] But I came out of it And was just like I kind of feel like That script doesn't Totally come together And it feels a little bit To me like Indian Jones and the temple of doom Temple of doom Yes Okay Now temple of doom My find

[00:20:31] My problem with temple of doom I think the last half hour is good It's more the The getting there Is a little rocky Like once you're on the mind carton Shit like you know That's kind of what I Rescuing the kids That's what I feel about

[00:20:43] Like this movie is like Great set pieces Yeah Great action This movie certainly It doesn't have a willy scott It doesn't have a short round It doesn't have characters That make me want to pull My eyes out of my head But Seems like we're comparison Make them

[00:20:56] I'm like this is a really good filmmaker Yeah Constructing really good entertainment There are sections with ideas That I find really interesting It sort of ends in a place That feels satisfying I don't really know what this movie amounts to

[00:21:08] I read you after seeing it a second time Coming up with your pitch Which I want to give I talked about the movie On twitter.com Like an idiot Which is mostly just the website For Feeling that Morons Moron Morons What's it for morons Yeah Prego Moronos Yeah

[00:21:29] So here's where I saw it at a press screening Oh, I'm gonna brag I was with mother of blankies Emily Yoshida Congratulations I think it was with Richard Yes Well, that's gonna come up Yeah It was with Emily and Richard They're two favorite guests We saw it together

[00:21:44] Our mommy and our daddy Exactly We saw it at the Lincoln Square AMC She got married to Richard Lawson by the way Sure I'll do it Sort of the Lincoln Square AMC Not a great theater Look Certain screens are great Did you see it in the Dolby Prime?

[00:22:00] No, we saw it in a bad theater And I'm not dissap... The big theaters at the AMC Are great experience The small theaters There's plenty of seats But they're kind of crummy Picture was out of focus Just at first bad I rush off

[00:22:18] I say, hey, picture's out of focus It's always a little weird Especially with press screenings Because they don't even really know who to bother They fix it, but it's still a little off I've had this and it drives me insane And it drives me crazy Absolutely not

[00:22:32] Especially because you know how meticulous Bird is This is when I walked in my screen I was screaming a phantom thread Because I can't watch a movie about a guy Who's so meticulous Being persnickety That's 5% projected wrong It's one of those things Where the whole time I'm like

[00:22:46] Is it just back in focus? And I'm just like In my head about this So the whole time I'm a little off And I watched the movie I had the same reaction as you Where I was like, the action in this thing Just fucking is great

[00:22:58] And there's so many character beats And story beats I love I can't add it all up But I am just like There's so many ideas And there's scenes like the screen slaver Like monologue, things like that Where I'm like, whoa, there's a lot going on here A lot

[00:23:19] And I get very buzzy and excited About movies like this Star Wars This is like a Star Wars Love and Movie Where I'm just sitting there Being like, I hope this is good And I'm nervous This is my most anticipated movie of the year Sure

[00:23:31] My most anticipated blockbuster of the year I guess And so I always walk out And I'm just like, I think I like that Oh my god, look, whoa And you texted me and you said He didn't fuck it up It's really weird It's got a lot of ideas

[00:23:47] And I went, that's exciting Sure, sure Right, he didn't phone it in He didn't phone it in was the big thing you said Yeah Because I was really worried about it Just being on rails And I would always prefer a movie like this That's trying for too much

[00:23:58] Than a movie that's like fine Just sort of getting in and getting out Exactly, just getting in Yeah You know So then, yeah This weekend I went to Emily's wedding In North Carolina Humble Brat Which was wonderful And on the way back We drove because I'm a maniac

[00:24:13] Double Humble Brat And on the way back What did you drive with? My girlfriend Humble Bag Triple Brat Humble Bag Triple Bag What the fuck I meant to say Humble Bragg Can I make my case? Alright, okay I meant to say Ben's holding up the card

[00:24:28] Like he's threatening me I meant to say Humble Bragg Hat Trick Now in my defense I'm sleep deprived I've been burning the candle at both ends I don't think that would have been A great joke He's been in too much time justifying jokes Yellow card

[00:24:43] Oh, you know he's right though This is why he's the commish And now that's a new nickname God damn it He should give us both triple red cards You're giving him a new nickname And what if we also add Michael Chiklis As one of his new nicknames?

[00:24:59] Yeah, of course, the chick Yeah Okay, so on the way back Driving up from NC We stop over in like suburban DC Like in Virginia Northern Virginia And I'm like Oh, there's like an Alamo here We went to Nando's Which is like my favorite chain restaurant

[00:25:19] That's only down in DC Like it's big deal Right, you got the chicken sandwich UK No, I got half chicken Perry Perry fries Garlic bread Paranase I love it all, man And we went to see at the Alamo This like huge suburban Alamo Wait a second

[00:25:36] Wait a second I'm sorry Did you say Bernays? No, something before that, Ben Paranase Just I want to investigate this Because this seems like a potential Video with Perry Perry Spice It's real good Commissioner Yes I want to investigate this Because it seems like a potential yellow card

[00:25:50] Go on You said they have locations in the UK So many But how would you know that? I mean, he's probably traveled there You know, a vacation Sure I've heard that he would eat fast food During a vacation I would want to have higher cuisine

[00:26:06] Yeah, it's just really like I literally make it a point To eat at Nando's as much as possible When I ever go back to the UK Go back Commissioner, permission to follow through on this Follow through What do you mean go back? That would imply That's a place

[00:26:20] That I used to live That's right I used to live in the United Kingdom For 13 years of my life It's never been talked about on this podcast before But it's time to talk about it Yellow card, keep your secrets Now I want the fans to keep track

[00:26:36] Of how many yellow and red cards Are distributed Comedy points are done It's all about the cards now baby Now I want to point also in soccer I think it's two yellow cards It's a red card and you're out So this is clearly a different system

[00:26:50] It's a very different system Maybe there'll be other colors I don't know Also, I want to give Ben five comedy points For the card system Really good, really good There are about 280 Nando's in the UK Wow There are five in America All near DC Geez Okay

[00:27:06] So it's this gorgeous big theater Great sound, full audience Like kind of like you Like good mix It was Sunday This Sunday And yeah And then that's when I like I was like okay, alright Now I think I settled into the story These scenes popped out of me

[00:27:22] Where you know It always helps to see a movie too Once you know what the twists are And you sort of like Can think about the themes a little more And I'll say this too I always feel like It's rough for me to formulate my thoughts

[00:27:33] On a Pixar movie the first time Because the Pixar movies are the ones I've seen more than anything else Yeah What's a Pixar movie That's like risen for you Over the years Well, righta two of you said It's risen wildly for me Yeah

[00:27:44] I mean at the time of its release I would have put it Maybe second to last And now I put it maybe third To last It's kind of one No, it's like third or fourth for me I think of that ranking I did

[00:27:55] The other day it was fourth It's numero uno for me Yeah, I know But yeah, I mean They're constantly shifting for me Which is why I do my ranking Every time there's a new one Because in the year in between I've rewatched like most of them again

[00:28:07] You know Trying to find your rankings We're just gonna sift through All the fucking retweets Of misery from you Yeah Well, I don't know if you've heard about it But the world's bad It's not so good World's people's doopoo As you said on the Tomorrowland episode Yeah

[00:28:20] No good very bad don't do it Yeah, you got Toy Story 2 Incredibles Toy Story Wally Ratatouille is your top five I mean that's a solid top five I think that's a good five I think it's a gentleman's five And then you got Nemo Monsters Cocoa

[00:28:31] I'd give my five a gentleman's ten See, I actually like your basic order here I think Bugs Life should be above Toy Story 3 But apart from that Those are pretty close for me You know, you got some like Nemo Monsters Cocoa inside out That seems like

[00:28:46] That all flows nicely for me You buy that And then you get into And then you're in the sequels You think I overrank some of the second tier stuff Oh, for sure You also You would put a lot of my second tier stuff Into third tier

[00:28:57] That's where we disagree Well, you don't Your only third tier is cars 2 Your entire third tier is cars 2 That's the big shift Right, that's the big shift Is you would put a lot of other movies Around there Yeah I mean I don't like the sequels

[00:29:10] But also cars 2 makes cars 3 I like the cars And you have Up Low Which I find with Up is not a movie I've ever watched again But I think Up is still interesting Yeah, I like it That's a movie with like Thematic resonance

[00:29:23] And like set pieces that are interesting That's like my 17th favorite Pixar movie I like more than most movies Yeah I also don't care so much about the Pixar rankings As you do You know what I mean To me it's like Brad Bird made a movie Great

[00:29:38] Let's go to Turd Rude Yeah You're like, seems on level to me Alright so anyway I really love the movie I think it's great It's probably going to be like In my top 10 of the year Maybe not quite incredible level Where it's like a contender

[00:29:53] For like my favorite movie of the year But really love it Think it's great Think it's got all kinds of shit going on Let's talk about it Yeah And I want you to offer your analysis Because I don't have much at this point

[00:30:05] I just know the things that felt Like they didn't really click for me Yeah But this is the last piece of context I want to throw on Which just kept on jumping out to me He says I finally got an idea Now that Tomorrowland's bombed

[00:30:19] I'm going to do Incredibles 2 Right He starts digging into it They've announced that And they've announced Toy Story 4 Yeah And then Toy Story 4 gets pushback Yeah And Incredibles gets pulled forward a year Yes it does Which is very dramatic in animation

[00:30:38] Yeah this was made on a tight schedule Brad Bird gave an interview to Kobe Cannon Saying like I think fear is a motivating factor We lost a year of development And people talk about why the good Pixar movies are so tight

[00:30:52] It's that they spend two years just fucking cracking story With a full team every day Not letting themselves off the hook And the ones that just feel like immaculate Zero fat Clean, economic, smart storytelling Are really good graduates of that program One exception What? Right at two Yeah

[00:31:13] And Toy Story 2 is the same thing as well Two right yeah those are the ones where they rushed them Yes They probably made everyone work way too hard And were like violated all kinds of like Right Laws Toy Story 2 especially

[00:31:25] They say like it kind of ruined some families That one was like a year right Like they did that I think right at two they turned it around in two years Toy Story 2 was supposed to go straight to VHS Oh I know we've talked about it

[00:31:34] Within the next six months And Laster said give me a year and I'll get it in theaters Right which is crazy But then he probably touched a lot of people inappropriately Yeah gave too many He gave lots of hugs Lots of hugs You know what I mean

[00:31:47] I hate the fucking universe Sorry And Jennifer Lee Could hire at Disney I think as well Yeah I think both of those are good hires She's the person who sort of changed the frozen script And made it sister focused That seems like Disney Creative voice you want

[00:32:01] Disney has done a much better job of bringing new voices in On the animation side Can I say one other thing I want Pixar to do that I want Pete Doctor to find interesting people And develop and nurture new voices Me too and I hope he does that

[00:32:12] That's what they need to do is a studio And Ben I don't want to hurt your feelings And I don't know how you feel Oh my god his hand is reaching for the cards I'm a little worried about Wreck-It Ralph too I saw the trailer in front of

[00:32:24] Oh my god his hand is under the desk I can't see what he's grabbing He's got like more cards He's still he's motionless But his fingers Can you see the trailer for Wreck-It Ralph too In front of I think it's something I see maybe no it's

[00:32:35] I think that was a nod Under the desk Yes I saw it How do you feel I'm not like saying like Oh it looks bad But I'm still like what's going on here I still can't see his other hand Oh he lifted it up It's empty wow

[00:32:47] He just opened his hands Nope it's a death card What Jesus Christ Death card You're doing tarot card readings now That seems like a major upgrade from yellow card This card system is amazing This is a massive breakthrough Am I dead now

[00:33:06] Look at that spike in the audio You're gonna have to deal with that Yeah my defense that was astonishing It was I think the podcast has just Gone to a whole new level I couldn't have known to roll away To roll away from the mic on that one

[00:33:17] I didn't know I thought at worst we were going to get a red card I thought it might be like a purple card You know like some sort of new color I don't know Maybe like an American Express black card Sure sure

[00:33:30] You're still going to buy me dinner You're just going to buy me dinner David I want to buy you dinner I will say this about Wreck-o-Ralph 2 Which we should spoil is going to be a Ben's choice When it comes out Oh yeah Right

[00:33:44] We're gonna do an episode on the Ralph's I do feel a little scared by the way They have moved so fully away from video games Right And now it just seems like this kind of like Shrek 2-E sort of like reference-y But that's what the trailer is

[00:33:59] The trailer looks like good Emoji movie But I'm still not super interested in seeing a good Emoji movie I guess I see your points But I love Ralph and Vanellope They're great movie friends And I yeah I'm really looking forward to it Because I just want more Ralph

[00:34:18] Yeah But Great great point We do get more Ralph I want more Ralph Yeah yeah we're gonna get him He's in it he's gonna wreck stuff And that's He's gonna wreck it And that's what you know Going into it You're gonna at least get that

[00:34:31] They're making you a promise that they cannot break Ralph may break the internet But the movie won't break that promise Right no He's gonna wreck it He's gonna wreck it and get more Ralph But You're right It might be a little reference-heavy

[00:34:43] And it might be kind of more like commenting On contemporary Online culture Yeah In a way that might be It might be a little like And I get it See when you said like Wreck-A-Ralph 2 looks like bad Trek I feel like Wreck-A-Ralph 1 is like Better Shrek Oh totally

[00:35:00] It's a really good Deconstructing Deconstruction of storytelling tropes Yeah yeah yeah totally And character roles Yes yes you're right You know in a really smart way And this I'm just like Is it just gonna be them Making fun different things In cold weather

[00:35:12] Man you know who else is out in North Carolina Katie Rich Another friend of the show Who lives there And we were talking about Shrek Cause Charlie's been watching some Shrek Yeah Well the Coco is his fave right now apparently Good kid And she was just saying like

[00:35:24] Shrek's such a piece of shit Yeah blows And not only that looks terrible Yeah Also Shrek's a fucking loser Also Shrek sucks Losing the fucking swamp By an apartment loser We talked about this probably like 200 episodes ago But do you remember when Shrek like 3 came out

[00:35:39] Or I'm sorry Shrek the 3rd Came out And they did the whole campaign With like the natural National board for like Children's health Where it was like Shrek like on a skateboard With like a fucking Jug of milk and an apple Saying eat healthy Right

[00:35:54] And it's like no one eats more Fun healthy shit It's garbage There's a fucking set piece in Shrek 1 That's like him eating like pig pew And eyeball soup and shit And they were like Shrek says being in shape is fun I'm like first of all he's fat

[00:36:10] Second of all There's a burlap sack Right Right he like literally Cause he can't find clothes that fit him He drinks dog diarrhea for breakfast Like what are you talking about Especially to donkey That's a filthy animal Also here's a picture of Shrek at Ralph Okay so Incredibles 2

[00:36:27] Blank Shrek Would you say you're in a blank Shrek To make that joke Yes I think Okay good No but before we talk about Incredibles 2 What's before Incredibles 2 A little film called Bow Yes Let me find the name of the filmmaker Cause I forgot it

[00:36:42] First female picks our short direct That's depressing Boy they did have I mean obviously they had a female director on Brave Who they fired Yeah they bravely fired from her own movie She is credited Yes as a co-director Domi Shi is the director of Bow Now Bow

[00:37:01] It was announced oh it's a movie about a mother Raising a dumpling who becomes a boy Everyone was like Yeah I see this and I'm like I see like a little still from it And I'm like one You know I'm a little sick of the Pixar cutie thing

[00:37:13] I'm sick of your cutie thing I am it's true Too much Too cute And two I was just kind of like viscerally Like my food is not going to talk to me This was your argument No doesn't come to life it stays dead And then I eat it

[00:37:27] Asks too many questions You're right How much is there consciousness I don't want to have to think about this It's like Cars times a billion Mr. Now then we see the movie Right especially cause you get into the thing where it's like

[00:37:42] It is Cars times a billion exactly But you're like pork dumpling So obviously pork it was a pig who was alive Then it gets grounded to meat Then put in a bun and then that gains its own consciousness Is the pork the brain? Like how does it work?

[00:37:58] Does it have any memories of pre slaughter? Hey why so literal Yeah well fair enough then I see the movie And I'm like oh Why so serious You know even though this is a pretty twisted movie Yeah I have to

[00:38:10] It gets a little twisted in the end there Well they twist the dumpling Well also true A lot of twisting But you know it's a metaphorical film about like An immigrant mother like having to sort of Let her son go and grow up

[00:38:25] And he's going to be different And might be you know A little less like sort of You know interested in the culture She wants to impart to him Right you know like When this thing started working for me I was like oh this is very metaphorical Very metaphorical

[00:38:39] But this movie does two things I do not like Okay One the food comes to life Nope It does happen in the movie Let's be clear Two of the food has a little goatee Didn't like that That's sort of like 1A right Two there's a scene in this

[00:38:54] 8 minute movie Where she makes this fucking Sumpchewas banquet This is your least favorite thing in Santa Clara You see there's this great shot of her Like in a walk like cooking a lot of Meat and you know she makes this like Platter and she's like

[00:39:09] And he just walks out He's like you know don't want to eat that Fuck off leaves And I'm just like at that point I'm practically like we need to leave the theater I need to go throw up I liked it I thought it was

[00:39:19] I'm so upset that they didn't eat the food I thought it was a sweet little movie To be clear for listeners I don't like it when people don't eat food Right I really like the character animation On certainly dumpling boy I did too

[00:39:29] I liked what a little stinker he was Yeah And it came together for me at the end I thought it was a nice little thing Hey they should let her make more movies Sure I mean it was obviously a very personal Movie for her

[00:39:40] She's talked about it in interviews Yeah Which is look the best picture of movies Come out of the director who have really personal Stories to tell Also right to the twisted part she eats him She eats the fucking dumpling person And it's like a metaphor for like

[00:39:55] Her anger and her inability to let go But also she like eats the dumpling man The theater I saw then After he married a woman A human woman I mean the trauma that she's going to have to go through Who comes in with and then she's like

[00:40:08] The human woman leaves and she eats the That's crazy Hey how's your husband Jerry doing Well His mom eats him My mother-in-law ate my husband You're familiar with how my husband was A not a little dumpling boy right It's a poochie of dumplings Oh my god

[00:40:29] In the theater I saw it It's a lot to throw at anyone I think The theater I saw it in I also just want to acknowledge the fact that We are still only on the short That plays before the movie Honestly for this podcast we're doing fine

[00:40:41] Who fucking cares The theater I saw it in when she swallows him And it's like very quick She just goes like Right And then just like in the tummy The theater I saw it in someone Not like yelled it out Like they were trying to get credit for

[00:40:55] But just very loudly said You just ate your son Uh-huh Uh-huh Yeah She did Good cognitive abilities on you Whoo Anyway, if fascinating short Certainly more interesting than Some of the shorts they've had recently Like you know, shorts like Piper Where it's like this is very pretty

[00:41:16] Looks great It's like an incredible piece of animation But it's not much too Right So you know it's not a Piper But it also fails to reach the heights of Say lava I love my curvy volcano It's a thing she's not curvy though It's one of the guys

[00:41:31] You have a guy's fucking curvy That guy's a mound It's like Kevin James of Volcano It's a Shrek of Volcano Okay, I lava you David Can I just say one thing Before we get onto the movie Because How many times have we said can I just

[00:41:45] Can I just say one thing Yeah Because you brought up Twisted I have a big announcement Career announcement here Okay I have just signed a deal With Warner Brothers The new DC Entertainment To do a solo Joker film Interesting Very excited

[00:42:02] I think it's going to be a breakthrough It will be the fifth solo Joker film to market Right So we're going to have Leto We're going to Phoenix And then this is on top of that Well, yeah, I guess you'll have Whoever the new Joker is established

[00:42:14] In the Matt Reeves movie And then this I guess this will be the fourth new Joker to market But it's very different Because I'm sort of taking a Logan approach Sure It's going to be like an older Joker Who's tired of making people laugh And gassing them

[00:42:28] And all of that So we have some more I'm going to go with the What's the story of the movie The movie that talks about the The real thing when you think about it In terms of the mortality And it's called Richard T So One dollar for that

[00:42:45] Their stock would immediately Drop to zero Just like that Boink It's called Richard T I'm recycling Twitter jokes Because we have to look after Our environment So the film is called Incredibles 2 the Terminator 2. And I was like, good argument point buddy fucking cool way to win that one.

[00:43:02] Yeah. Yeah. I had to like people had to probably go home and cry after he annihilated them with that response. So Cole open in this movie. I'm getting pumped because they're immediately bringing back one of my favorite characters. The under minor Tony ride. Sure. Oh, that's

[00:43:15] right. They called open right right love Tony ride and Tony ride and you're who Tony love who I think is voiced by Brad Bird son who in the first movie played the something amazing. I guess now he's over. Now he's old, a little interesting nod to the

[00:43:31] passage of time. Benny Michael Bird, Michael Bird. Yeah. He was been in. No, apparently he was the voice of Tony ride and you're in the incredible really. No, no, no. So maybe it was

[00:43:43] the other bird son. Yeah, maybe. Okay. Anyway, Tony, right and Jerry's got a turtle neck. Okay. So dreamy. He's very dreamy. Yeah. Do you like Tony? Yeah. Okay. He's polite, a little doofus. I'm not doofus. But you know,

[00:44:00] it's a little head in the clouds, I guess. What is his type? Dreamboat. He's like a nice boy. He's like a nice boy from high school approachable for your mom's not going to like freak out

[00:44:10] about you dating right like he's like a nice boy. He's like a fuck boy. He's in trauma. Yeah. Yeah. But one thing jumps out to me immediately. We talked a lot about on our Incredibles episode, which was very tight, very short. No tangents.

[00:44:27] How universally clean. Everyone loved it. Probably our most favorite episode. Favorite episode. That movie when he pitched it, they were like, we cannot afford to make this movie and they had to come with a lot of budget hacks for Incredibles. Okay. And one of

[00:44:43] them was this movie has too many characters. Okay. So they developed a technology called Everyman that allowed them to have pretty much two stock eye types for a female character and a male character

[00:44:54] and they could fill out crowd scenes with minor variations. It would like auto generate like, okay, this nose is 20% bigger. These eyes are 20% smaller. And so outside the primary principal characters and Incredibles who were very meticulously designed all the background

[00:45:08] characters and Incredibles and the one liners, the under fives, what have you all look kind of the same. Sure. And Tony Rydger falls into that where he's very much the stock mold they have.

[00:45:18] He's very subtly redesigned in this opening in a way that makes it clear that it's like, oh, Brad Bird has, if not a blank check, a much larger check. I'm sure this was, well, the listed budget is $200 million. Right. It's a lot of money. Yeah. It's

[00:45:32] like twice as much as the first one. Yeah. And I mean, it's been a while. Technology is advanced. He hasn't made an animated film in like a decade now. Right. So all these things, the processing power is there, but I just- This movie looks gorgeous. Unbelievable.

[00:45:44] I mean, it really does. He also has found a way to do like, it's not cell shading, but he does some really interesting things with lighting in this movie and also design the characters at sharper angles, especially the new characters like the devours. But even

[00:45:58] the way he subtly redesigns the models for the Incredibles so that the lighting hits them in a way that it looks more like shading on a 2D drawing than it does lighting in a three-dimensional

[00:46:11] film, which kind of blew me away. Yeah. I think he's doing something really interesting. Yeah. But so that right away, I was just like, okay, so he's going to push this fucking technology through the limits now. And this cold open is kind of replicating the cold open of

[00:46:25] the original Incredibles where you're cutting between these brief conversations and the black music list title cards. So I was like, okay, interesting mirror here, but now it's Rick Decker. Now by Jonathan Banks. Lucky died, who was still very much alive when we recorded our

[00:46:37] other episode 15 years ago. Very old man. And he gets the final dedication at the end of the film. He's interviewing Tony Reidinger about what he witnessed, which was this under minor attack

[00:46:50] that was teased at the end of the first movie. And then we go into that set piece itself. Yeah. You got John Ratsenberger. He's kind of playing like it's like a moment, but a little more blue collar. Right. Kind of a blue collar, Mole Man.

[00:47:04] But I always loved the underminder ending because of course that's the first issue of Fantastic Four is the Mole Man and his creature popping out from the middle of the street and his family coming together. Incredibles obviously very indebted to the Fantastic Four and having them

[00:47:17] have this first big public fight feels very classical FF to me. Okay. And this is just like fun fucking roller coaster set piece, Brad Bird. So much fun. You got Mr. Incredible Trampolining into action and getting sucked into the I really like that.

[00:47:37] And the good story beat that they tell Dash and Violet to stay behind and watch after Jack Jack. Both of them want to be part of the fight. So they keep passing Jack Jack. The bit with the stroller just rolling into view. Really good.

[00:47:53] And Jack Jack's like or Dash is like what happened and then it's like, oh no, it's Violet. She was pushing it invisible runs away. Good stuff. Violet does some cool shit. She throws like force field bolts. Yeah. Violet has a lot to do with this movie.

[00:48:04] Does a lot right by Violet for me. I read a lot of interviews with Vowell where she talked about how she records just alongside Brad Bird. Brad Bird does every single voice of every other character which she says he's like weirdly good at.

[00:48:17] But she talked about how like when you record the movie you're like, man, this is like a Violet movie because you don't know anything else. And if you watch like there's a good B-roll video that came out, I think someone posted

[00:48:28] in the blankies Reddit of Bird working with like Sophia Bush and Hunter and Nelson and Jackson when they were recording. And he really does like contextualize every line for them. Like he comes in and works with them and he's like, so this is like you have to imagine

[00:48:44] there's like a giant drill and what you're feeling right now is before they do a series of that line over and over again. So I think he does make things very personal for each actor, you know, which helps with their performances feeling that lived in.

[00:49:00] So this is a fun fight scene which ends in a tremendous amount of destruction. Chaos. And here I'm like, okay, so is this because I've tried to stay pretty clear, not just spoilers but major plot details of this movie going into it because I was like,

[00:49:14] I'm on board. I don't even really want to know what he's doing outside of the broad strokes. And all that I'm hearing is just the basic plot. And I'm like, but what are the themes of this movie?

[00:49:22] What's the thing that Bird's digging into? So now very quickly this movie is setting up this like, yeah, but look at the fucking public damage of this thing. You say that you're out here protecting

[00:49:32] us but you didn't catch the guy. People could have gotten hurt and now the city has to pay for this. Which is the classic superhero thing. They do these things and the villains usually

[00:49:42] get away because they're going to come back. Right. And right, like what about the aftermath? That's the gag of the first Incredibles 2. Right. You know, the first Incredibles, T.O.O. Right. Because here's the other big gambit this movie is doing starting immediately after the

[00:49:56] first one. Right. So you don't have any shift of like, oh, here's what's happened in between the two so we can set a new table for new circumstances. No. He wants to make a movie about like, okay, if they're going to come back, how do you re-legalize superheroes?

[00:50:10] Like this is a world that'll made them outlaws, right? Right. So this movie is about like the legal question of superheroes. Like should they exist? Because I guess the under minor fight at that point in the movie, it's a couple weeks after

[00:50:23] they do that quick jump after there's a very short time jump right into the movie. Right. Which we never really see the public, like the larger public ripples of the syndrome fight. Obviously the people who are around and they meet at vicinity or like cheering and are

[00:50:36] like, yay, supers are back but we don't see how the news covers it. We don't know, you know, Rick Decker seems optimistic about bringing them back but we don't know the full sort of effects of that culturally. But this makes it clear that people are fighting against it.

[00:50:54] The government is? Yes. People seem mostly fine with them, which I think is a crucial part of this movie. But the media is able to sell the story. Yeah. Well, that's Winston's argument where he's like, all you see is the news footage

[00:51:08] of the aftermath and that's no good for you guys. And that's a problem. Ben, what do you think of the big under minor fight? Great set piece. I loved his vehicle.

[00:51:20] And how it was a big drill. I love how he had it built so that then it had the escape designed right into it. Oh yeah, where it tunnels away. Sort of teenage written into turtle esque. Remember how they had those drill cars? Yeah.

[00:51:33] And there's some really great pun names. This one in particular is good. I think though a villain that's just driven for money is such a clear thing. And we'll get to it later, but I don't know. Like to me, I'm like, oh, he's bad and he wants money.

[00:51:54] This whole like weird sort of like loftier sort of like bigger ideas of why someone's bad. I feel like this movie struggles with it more than the original does. Yes, for sure. Which I think like, you know, Becky Drysdale in our episode was talking about how she has

[00:52:11] a hard time totally reconciling syndromes, a whole sort of stance, what he's fighting for within the story and also what he represents to the viewer. I like his jackhammer punching the under minor. I think that's cool.

[00:52:23] Oh yeah, that he's got his weird mechanical hands. I fucking love it. Yeah. And his hands themselves also look like Wall-E's claws. Yeah, they're little claw hands, which I don't know if that was intentional, but they're very similar sort of flat claw hand designs.

[00:52:35] I don't know. Yeah. I think Bird likes Easter Eggie stuff. I mean, the Pixar movies always love each other. Right. Love that. I couldn't totally figure out what he was trying to say with the villains here. I think he's trying to say a couple different things.

[00:52:49] Uh-huh. Well, we'll talk about, well, I mean, the main villains we'll talk about. The under minor is more your classic. And also, we so rarely get that in superhero movies these days because it's usually people who are trying to end the world in one way or another.

[00:53:02] Well, right, which I think was just have like petty bank thieves. Like a thing I love about Spider-Man 2 is that he has a Bank High sequence. I also just like, well, yeah, Spider-Man 2 with Joel McHale and the toaster. Yeah, I love that. The best.

[00:53:16] Well, no, I even like in Spider-Man 2 recently. How the fuck did we not nominate Rosemary Harris for Vesa Porti and Anfils? You love her in that movie. She's so good. You gotta do a Rami because I really want to talk about the Spider-Man movies. Me too.

[00:53:28] But anyway, but Homecoming 2, I like that Homecoming has the sort of working class villain where he's just like, I'm trying to make some money here. Yeah. Right. You know, which is, I mean, Spider-Man's always been the classic street hero. So, yes.

[00:53:39] No, all of Spider-Man 2's problems come from the Spider-Man arc. Spider-Man 2 doesn't have any problems. I'm sorry, Spider-Man homecomings. Oh, yeah, sure. Problems come from the Spider-Man arc or lack thereof. Sure. All its world shit, I think is exemplary.

[00:53:55] But yes, it is nice to just watch a very clear, like he's trying to rob the bank, they have to stop him. There are four of them. We know what their powers are.

[00:54:00] Also, his way of robbing banks is cool where he blows up the banks so they fall down and he can just suck money from underground. Right. Like that the banks literally like fall down.

[00:54:09] And he has, doesn't he have that speech where he's like, I'm undermining the pillars of your, like, it's like great where it's like, right, this is how like Stan Lee would come up with like a villain, right? Right. Where the villains bit is part of everything he does.

[00:54:21] Yes. His car, his, his morals, like, in a very Bradford way. It's like the design has to match up with his philosophy, which has to match up with his movement. You're right. It is the classic. Love it. The classic good Stan Lee villain. Yeah.

[00:54:33] The bad ones are the guy who's like, my name is the schemer and it's like, what do you do? I scheme. Yeah. Oh, okay. What does that mean? I've got a great scheme. I'll kill you. My teeth are lighter together than they get hot. Oh boy.

[00:54:45] I guess that's scheming because that's a giant. I just read this old comic with the schemer where he's like, I'm going to scheme to take over the mob. And I'm like, you sound like a mobster. He's like, no, the schemer. Anyway. Yeah.

[00:54:58] There are some of those characters like the shark. What's your power? I'm ruthless like a shark. Okay. You're just that's all criminals. I also don't sleep. Right. Yeah. Got to keep moving. Where's the bit with the kingpin in the, in the Stan Lee Spider-Man?

[00:55:13] Every time like Spider-Man is always like, hi, he's so fat. And then he punches me. He's like, I forgot he's solid muscle. And you're like, we get it. Okay. He's strong. But they're like, can you believe a fat man, but not fat muscle?

[00:55:26] Like they do that every single time he shows up. But I also liked that the kingpin, it's like, he gets mad about being cold fat. He's like, I'm not fat. I'm like, work hard on this body. Dude looks pretty fat. He's a big man. Just poking up.

[00:55:39] You're right. I'm building muscle mass. When Spider-Man is always like, hi, you're so fat. And then he's thinking like, he's not though. It's tall muscle. Yeah. Every time. I know that the fucking Marvel TV, Marvel movies thing is a real grand

[00:55:53] A line that doesn't seem like it'll be crossed anytime soon because of Pearl mother, uh, Fiege fights. I would love to see Tom Holland fight Vincent D'Onofrio. Hey man, let's make it happen. It would just be the fucking best. Oh, I think isn't, isn't fucking, uh,

[00:56:09] Lee of Shriver playing kingpin in the spider-verse movie? Oh, voicing him. That's what I've heard. Oh, that sounds cool. Yeah. That movie looks really interesting. Yeah. Like visually. Remember I said that six months ago and you were like, eh, and I was like, looks pretty interesting.

[00:56:23] I think I wasn't that dismissive. I'm more dismissive of the title. Well yeah, it should just be called spider-verse. All right. Anyway, so the big fight happens. They get in trouble. They're shipped away as usual in their witness protection program.

[00:56:36] Earl friend Decker and he makes a clear like look. They're shutting the whole thing down. He has this line, politicians don't understand people who do good things. That makes them nervous. And in general, he's really nice with them. Yes.

[00:56:50] Like where he's like, I love you guys, but you know, yeah, it's like, they just don't want to pay for this shit anymore. Yeah. Go on. What are we going to say? Which gets into something culturally now where I feel like this entire,

[00:57:00] not to get into this fucking thing, but like the social justice warrior thing is so insane to me because it comes out of this fight of like, wait, if you're trying to like stand up for people who are being persecuted,

[00:57:13] there clearly must be something in it for you. Right? Like when people derisively call someone a social justice warrior, it's like you're just trying to get the credit for doing the good thing. And it's like, why are you so skeptical of anyone trying to do a good thing?

[00:57:27] And also kind of doesn't matter as long as you're doing a good thing. Yeah. Like better to do a good thing for the wrong reasons. Yeah. Than a bad thing for the right reasons, you know?

[00:57:37] But at this point, the movie is kind of dealing an interesting kind of murky territory where it's like this public relations fight, the imagery, the sort of, the optics, if you will. And the Incredibles are coming from this place where it's like they don't have a big ideology.

[00:57:54] They love being superheroes. It's their core being is just to do this. There's a place of sort of automatic empathy for them in justice where it's like they don't have a thing they're standing for. It's just like, oh danger, let's stop that. Right.

[00:58:08] I mean, that's one thing Winston is sort of pointing out to them, but yeah, where he's like, you know, like it's good to manicure this a little bit, you know, streamline what you're here. You're here playing an action, right?

[00:58:18] But the movie is being made so many years after the first one. And there's been all these superhero movies since. So here's the core of your little bit. I do think Bird's been watching that and thinking about it, like, because I think we're thinking about this shit. Yeah.

[00:58:32] And the movie is like, is there a place for these people in our society? And what is their place and is that a good thing or a bad thing? And right when they get to the hotel, they have this big fight,

[00:58:45] which is essentially like, should we break the law in order to like fix the law? Like, is it worthwhile to do that? This is the angle of your take that I find the most interesting, which is why do we keep on asking for this from our pop culture?

[00:58:59] Right. Why have we been on this kick for 16 years that we have not stopped? In 2008, everyone thought this is the end of an era and then fucking Iron Man and Dark Knight came out. I feel like at the end of last year, everyone went,

[00:59:10] we must be hitting peak superhero. And we're now going to get the three highest grossing superhero movies. I mean, really, like there's a good chance that Incredibles ends up the third highest grossing superhero movie of all time behind. You're right. I didn't even think about it. You're right.

[00:59:23] Behind Black Panther and Infinity War, you know? Which came out this year. Right, which are all going to end up in the top 10 in history. So there's a question about Ben is, looks like he's having an existential crisis. But there's a question. Why do we ask for this?

[00:59:37] What are we getting from this? Is this helping us or hurting us to be constantly investing our sort of imagination into these pillars of moral integrity who are also so wildly super power that we just go like you deal with it. Yeah.

[00:59:53] And also like what are the risks inherent in that? It's funny because I do feel like Incredibles one is this movie that's like they should be allowed to be superheroes because that's what they are. And that's where people see this argument of like, you know,

[01:00:08] this sort of like super elitist whatever, you know, where it's like Dash should be able to run as fast as he can because that's what he can do. So like why would you restrain him? Right? Like that's the sort of free enterprise kind of thing.

[01:00:19] And then this movie is a little more like you can't deny that, but also, you know, there's a lot of risk there. Yeah. Yeah. Because this is a movie about superheroes being used for evil.

[01:00:32] And this is a movie about morality and how people who don't have any morality are the most frightening, like dangerous people of all. Yeah. And it's a movie that ends with like the villain saying like we would have been friends

[01:00:45] if it weren't for your like code of ethics. Yeah. Yeah. And missing and elastic girls like yeah, I mean sorry. Like that's a crucial lie. I mean, there's I agree. Evelyn Helen is the, you know, that's like the crucial relationship. Look, I like all their scenes together.

[01:01:01] But I came out of the movie being like I still don't understand why she did this. What do you mean? She hates superheroes. I don't understand this being her plan. We mean the hypnotism? We will get to it. Okay.

[01:01:14] So let's so now they're relocated to a shitty motel. Yes. Which is nice bird and I feel like this movie really doubles down on the 60s. Totally. Totally. It makes it a little later made me like, you know, it's yeah.

[01:01:26] But it makes it very clear that well not because I mean it's like 30 seconds. No, I know. You know what I'm saying? You know, like the stuff like the new math, like he's talking about.

[01:01:35] But I feel like this makes it clear like this isn't just like Mad Men House and an aesthetic choice. We're clearly like setting this movie in like Walt Disney's Tomorrowland Future right. Especially the house with the water features and the TV being black and white.

[01:01:48] TV being white outer limits and Johnny Quest. This is 100 percent the 1960s. Just an alternate version. Right. They get to this motel. Yeah. And they're all sort of trying to like figure out like where do we stand here

[01:02:05] and having this thing they're explaining to the kids about like, you know, can we break the law? Right. Which is like a thing I see coming up now with like all the sort of immigration nightmares that are happening right now

[01:02:20] with people being like the only way to really fight this is to actually be to break the law. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. And in the first movie, Helen is pretty steadfast. It's like, well, superhero is illegal. Like that's over.

[01:02:33] You know, Bob's the one who's like secretly doing the police scanner. But as I saw someone tweet this week, like Harriet Tubman was breaking the law. No, people of course. I'm not. Right. No, no, no, we're on the same page here. Slavery bad.

[01:02:46] But no, but the argument that Harriet should be. The people who are canonized, right? As being like our big trailblazers and human rights, we're all breaking the law at the time. Sure. Who then were able to remake the law by their actions.

[01:03:02] And so that's one of now let's add that onto the pile of arguments that the movie is sort of stewing on. Sure. But right. I mean, like that to me is a core argument of should superheroes be legal where it's like

[01:03:15] Bob is basically he keeps saying like the kids need to be able to choose. Like he's saying like again, like kind of like we are a thing. Like we can't just be ignored. Now Helen seems a lot more rational about it. Well, she's the rational right. Right.

[01:03:28] But Bob has so much like self worth issues wrapped up in it. You know what I mean? I feel like Helen's more chill is like I have a family that I love. Like I'm doing okay. She was also fine leaving it behind.

[01:03:38] I think she gets a rush out of doing it again. Yes. But Bob is very clear. He's so miserable at the beginning of Incredibles one. And then he gets such a pep in his step from like getting reignited by the Mirage syndrome stuff. Right.

[01:03:50] Whereas his arc in this movie is him realizing that he gets so much out of being a dad. Like that's that's his arc in the movie. Right. Which I mean, it's a I mean, Bird just flipped the arcs. Like it's a classic sequel movie. Right.

[01:04:01] But it's a career thing where it's like he needs to find a way to not only find value in his career. Because at the beginning of this movie, like they're like Elastigirl you'd go do it. And he's like what but I'm the I'm the bacon getter.

[01:04:15] You know, because even she even says early she's like well why don't you do that and I'll get that. He's like no no I'll do it like you know he thinks he's going to have to go back to another insurance company or whatever right.

[01:04:26] But he won't like allow her to like supplant him in this sort of hierarchy. You know, I had like a vaguely terrifying moment the other day where I had to go get out of jury duty. Oh yeah. Or get it postponed rather. Right.

[01:04:42] Until I'm done taking it up. Yeah. And I had to fill out one of those forms where you know all the information but then also said like occupation and then it said hobbies. Okay. And I was like occupation actor, I guess.

[01:04:57] And then it was like right hobbies and I was like fuck I think I don't have hobbies anymore. This form just gave you an existential price. It really did and I was like everything. Buying toys. No but I was like everything. Toys.

[01:05:12] But this is what's terrifying for me is I was like everything I would have listed as a hobby 10 years ago is now my career outside of that. So like what like seeing movies? What do you mean?

[01:05:22] Like oh like a comedy, reading movies, you know like whatever it was like hosting bad ass podcast right. Right these things that I was like I find this fun. You know and then sounds good your job or this is the thing you find fun.

[01:05:37] But I also was like I have no separation from like my professional life and the things that like make me happy. You can't just go home and say like let me let me just do this to unwind. Like nothing to do with.

[01:05:47] Right and I've been talking to you about you know like production stress, the like par for the course just like you know it's simple making a TV show. And part of the problem is it's like I am completely incapable of just like

[01:06:00] hanging my hat up at the end of the day and being like I got to go to sleep. No. I had this moment where I was like I need to find like I need to get into like

[01:06:06] fucking making paper or like some sort of like to join a choir. You just need to do something just that's other right. Because like I have nothing my entire sports membership,

[01:06:19] my entire sense of self worth is tied up in this thing but also like if I have struggles with that thing right then it just ruins your life completely ankle. That's work life balance right? That's what you're talking about right. I don't have children.

[01:06:31] You can have a couple. I'm like let's get on that you know. Yeah tossing. When everyone sees me they're like that seems like someone who is so in control of his own life. He should have direct. Right. He was like why is that guy have kids?

[01:06:43] Screaming out for him. So good at waking up. Going to the bathroom and stuff. He's just great at it. The Bob stuff was kind of hitting me hard there because it's like especially like if your career is going well you know I'm look I relate to Bob.

[01:06:56] I'm a superhero. Yeah, it's true. It's like then the moments where you don't have that thing. Am I getting a card for that? You're close. Okay. God knows what card it's going to be. The moments when you don't have that thing get really bleak. Yeah.

[01:07:12] So, but our old friend Lucia to talk about Bob's arc like right it's about him accepting the value he can draw from his family and from being a dad. Right. Lucia shows that that can be as satisfying that absolutely like yeah parenting when done

[01:07:28] properly can be a heroic. Absolutely. And so yeah, but what's his name? Lucia shows up looking hotter than ever looking a real snack looks cool. I get so that's the worst thing about our Incredibles episode the universally acclaimed

[01:07:41] episode is that you not you really Becky does it more but you kind of like you know have fun get a little where she's like you have a crush on Lucia. Yeah. Yeah, he's hot. He's a hot guy so cool. He's hot so hot. He's cool. Right.

[01:07:55] He's ice. Someone said that that little tangent in our episode caused them to apply. What is it rule 34 sure sure like look up the sexy frozen lot of frozen porn out there stunned stunned to learn this frozen rules.

[01:08:12] Yeah, you know usher plays the limo driver who says I'm your biggest fan really and that's because usher loves frozen. I'm almost certain it's usher. I'm going to look it up. That's funny. Yes usher. It's just weird.

[01:08:25] Let's throw zone right outside of like all the you know elastic girl porn that Anthony Lane has commissioned himself. He literally is a boing joke. That's what it is. Yeah, check out the New Yorker. You know the New Yorker the most sophisticated publication around. What's up?

[01:08:43] You know the New Yorker. You've heard of the New Yorker elitist man with a monocle looking at a butterfly. Right. Yeah. They're funny cartoons. Yeah. Yeah. But but not so much life out loud funny is how right funny right.

[01:08:57] Their review of the Incredibles includes a paragraph about how attracted their head and most senior critic was to elastic girl ending with a joke about the popcorn on your lap being flung up into the air. No because you're boner red card to it talking about the scene where

[01:09:20] elastic girl and Evelyn chat to each other which I do think is you know there is like a sort of tension to that scene that's but not not quite boing you know. Agreed. I think there is some interesting tension.

[01:09:32] He also implies that every time two women talk on screen he's like why isn't this rated NC 17. What is how they get away with this? Oh boy. Boy all right. Boy are you all right. I think you mean. So Lucius looking fucking hot.

[01:09:55] Yeah he's like come with me. So during our big adventure this guy Winston Devereux who we see in this great action sequence played by Odin Kirk. Also looking at snack. Yeah and also looking a lot like Bob Odin Kirk. Oh who's a hottie. Yeah.

[01:10:09] Number one hottie gave me his card and like he wants to talk to us about super stuff. Yeah. And so they put on their costumes. I just love trench coats. I love that. It's so good because it's just like. I love them sans masks.

[01:10:23] Clearly wearing super heroes like unit hearts underneath trench coats. There's such a cool meshing of styles there. I also like you know the first movie has that sort of it's playing on that vibe of Bob's having an affair right like with Mirage and it

[01:10:40] ends with him hugging her and less girls all mad and like it's got the she listens in on the phone and she and this is like the the married couple of kind of rekindled and

[01:10:51] like they're putting on their coats and they'd be like bye kids we're going out for a walk. Watch the baby. All right see you later. You know pizza on the table. All right. Are they going to like a key party? Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, right.

[01:11:03] Like a fuck fro zone because frozen shows up and look at it. And David said like they better fuck from and then they lanes like boy. I mean everyone knows that Elastigirl is like so so hot but like you know fucking relax.

[01:11:24] They're all I mean look Elastigirl is like very very very cool. I can't say that because she's my mother but right. Um Holly Hunter did you have that little teaser in front? Yeah, which was really weird at AMC theaters. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:11:39] Right where it's like making like this is really hard like takes a lot of work and we're like okay brag about it. I'll tell you why I want that in front of like Den of Thieves, you know like in front of like the stupidest movie ever.

[01:11:51] Before you make fun of us just know like it's the Jeff. Look I mean four months of my life on this. It's the death bed the bed that eats people a bit where it's like someone had to wake up at 4am and toast the bagels.

[01:12:02] You know this is a lot of people working a lot. I'll tell you why I didn't like it. Felt like they were still on my bed. What are you saying no one should ever make an animated movie? Yeah. Yeah, they were stealing your bed.

[01:12:14] It's also like fucking calm down. And we know it took 14 years. Christ we paid! It's okay! Yeah we're fine. That's what the money is for! To quote the great John Draper. Right that's like one of the uh oh I talked at Sky High on Masterpiece

[01:12:28] Theater recently joined the Six Timers Club and uh- Are you the only member of that club? No. Really who else is in there? What's this I'm forgetting now. Oh boy. I'll get to it.

[01:12:39] But uh I threw in my old Sky High Blu-ray and it had like three because that was like first wave of Blu-rays. Three anti-piracy ads at the top of the Blu-ray and I'm like I just bought it! See you're right I love it. You wouldn't steal a car!

[01:12:56] In 2008 I'm sure I paid $35 for Sky High on Blu-ray lacking any bonus features. Remember that old Mindy Kaling stand up bit about that? Yeah. Where it's like I might steal a car if I just had to click a button

[01:13:09] and then it was free and no one ever bothered me about it. If I could touch a car and it would immediately reproduce into another identical car and the person who owned that car in the first place still got to keep their car.

[01:13:21] But it's like this is the last person you should be telling like please watch our movie! I'm like we're here! Yes we're here. Winston Devere. Yes. Here's his tragic story his dad was this captain of the captain of industry type love superheroes right?

[01:13:36] So like a right he's sort of like a pre-war you know what I mean? Like a forties guy like who's just like America! Loves heroes because they're heroic! Loves Gazerbeam. Nice little Gazerbeam shout out. Gamma Jack. He had phones. He's like a classic Golden Age.

[01:13:54] He financed them so much. Right. They had a direct line to Gazerbeam and the flame one. Wonderful guy. Flamoyd. Dynaguy? No not Dynaguy. Dynaguy is like a thunderbolt in his head. Okay. Yeah. Okay he has his name in his dumb name. Yeah okay.

[01:14:08] Right like he's like a Golden Age of comics guy right? Yes. Yes. Or it's just like it's great that there are superheroes because what they do is they fight crime. Crime is bad. Right. That's like the whole take of the Golden Age superhero. Yes. Yeah.

[01:14:21] If you're criminal they fight you at the end. And also I think the idea that they like inspire people that they're like good upstanding like sort of. Right. Good Americans. Examplars. Where masks and won't reveal who they are. Yeah.

[01:14:36] So this stuff I get to this trunk of the movie. Right and then he died after the Superheroes are banned. He gets robbed, he picks up the phone no one's there, he gets shot. Right. And I get like a little worried at this moment. Just because I'm like.

[01:14:51] You're thinking like is Brad like grinding an axe? Is that what it was? No I get worried where I'm like okay he's really showing the work here. Oh sure yeah I agree the first. This is such a clear. This scene this sequence. Tea up. Like the devour.

[01:15:04] So much exposition that's so clearly like I'm saying if the conflict at this movie I'm saying if these two characters in their history. Their opposite viewpoints on what happened. Because he has them over he's like I don't agree with you but we can't talk about it right now.

[01:15:16] Right and it's like it's not like I can fully solve the equation here but it's like I got it down to three options. Like this movie is giving me such a clear tea up. And it's not like the syndrome thing is a big twist in the first Incredibles.

[01:15:28] But it's also like the way buddies introduced feels pretty organic. It contributes for interesting tension to that opening set piece. Then he's gone for a while you know. There are other things going on you're caught up in bobs like sort of. Yeah no I know I know.

[01:15:41] And then re-entry is now we're in it and this just feels like you know it's I just feel it doesn't feel sweaty to me but I'm seeing some perspiration. Well I think it's. And then being like can we just get this all out there.

[01:15:51] Well that's more what I think are his birds like okay we're gonna have the one scene that just gets it done right. And we're just gonna have to bite that scene. I always get bummed out when that happens.

[01:15:58] Yeah I can handle it as long as it's one scene. Especially someone like Brad Bird who's usually so good at finding ways to very efficiently work that stuff into actual action. Well in the first comedy or drama rather than having someone explain shit.

[01:16:11] In the first Incredibles he does so much of that with the documentary talking head stuff. Which is sweaty and it's alright but you can also get away with you know what I mean. And this time he doesn't do that he does this fine okay.

[01:16:23] And also when like syndrome is finally like explaining everything to him monologuing to him he also a calls out the fact that he's monologuing and B is fighting him while it's going on. Yes like he is physically beating this guy up while he's explaining.

[01:16:38] You know syndrome has but yeah syndrome does have that moment where he's like you got me monologuing so it's doing the kind of like meta joke about him info dumping you know but they

[01:16:46] you know yeah there's always gonna be cute ways around this right but I hear a movie people explain their plan. I'm like this feels a little less elegant than what Brad Bird usually does. Well you're a little less elegant. Agreed.

[01:16:56] So Winston's like I love superheroes they were to save my dad that's why I love superheroes and Evelyn Devere evil endeavor great name yeah is like well I never much liked them. She comes in and she's first presents as this sort of like wacky inventor because

[01:17:15] she's got all her like papers and stuff and she seems kind of hung over. She's played by Catherine Keener who has the greatest voice just the greatest voice. I mean Bird cast so well voice wise in the Incredibles movies particularly like.

[01:17:29] I just anything Catherine Keener is in a movie and then now we've crossed a new threshold with just her voice being in a movie voice. I'm just like this is the coolest lady alive right this is the number one.

[01:17:39] But you know what else is in this movie Holly Hunter the other coolest lady alive. It's crazy. We're such distinctive voices and such opposite voices and then Sarah Vowell. Who's the cool yeah and then Sophia Bush our third favorite. Sure. Fourth I'm so sleep.

[01:17:55] I mean I like void. Void school. Void school. I wish void feels like a character that was a little more weaved into the story at large in a previous draft and now it's just more void but we'll get to that.

[01:18:09] I'm not saying I need more of it but it just feels like there was a version where she was more intricate to the plot rather than just being someone who gets brainwashed later. Sure yeah maybe incredible three maybe I don't know right.

[01:18:20] Oh because this is the other thing I want to say in terms of not just Brad Bird saying like look I like the pressure of losing a year knowing I had less time to crack everything. He said I finally cracked Incredibles 2.

[01:18:33] I had two really strong ideas for what I want to do with the film. We started working and about a year in I realized it didn't work. Interesting sure. So after waiting like 14 years going like I'm not going to do it until I have it.

[01:18:46] He felt like he had it. He started working on it went like actually breaking this out as a story it doesn't function and started rewriting the whole thing then and there when the movie was already up on

[01:18:55] rails had been announced licensing deals were in place what have you and so I see a little bit of that in the movie. Maybe I would imagine he just simplified like that has to be what he did. He makes it sound like he did a big change.

[01:19:08] Sure okay well what was it? I also know give me the deeds bird. He said like I think up until like a year and a half ago screen slaver was not a part of the movie at all. The movie was about artificial intelligence. Sounds wild.

[01:19:22] Yeah which sounds like an Incredibles 3 idea Brad. Yeah let's wait on the AI questions. I don't know if that means the devils weren't in it at all but it sounds like certainly there was no physical manifestation of a villain like that.

[01:19:34] The film was more about technology run amok in a very literal way. That's a different movie right right right. Which makes me think he literally threw almost everything out. Well but that sounds like the only thing that stayed in place was the Bob Helen shift.

[01:19:49] He said he had two big concepts it was the Bob Helen shift elastic girl taking the lead Bob having to deal with the family and then his big concept for what the superhero plot line was

[01:19:58] and it sounds like he threw all of that at about a year into development. Well what then became a three-year process rather than a four-year process? I don't know what happened but if I were talking to him I would say

[01:20:07] why I feel like what he settled on was the right thing to settle on which is like you're making a movie about superhero legalization so make the movie about the argument for the role of superheroes in society.

[01:20:19] If you want to make an AI run amok movie Brad I'm ready. I want your AI run amok movie whatever the f**k wackiness that's going to be. But also maybe it wasn't a movie about superhero legalization at that point. I mean this is just speculation.

[01:20:31] That's fine I'm just saying I figured it out. Yeah. Like you know with the story like he may have literally just made it smaller because the other thing where I know why he wants to not jump in time.

[01:20:42] He wants the baby right like you know and so and and like so he did the short jack-jack attack which was on the original DVD release of the film I think it got nominated for an Oscar maybe.

[01:20:54] Which is just the the stuff we didn't see with Jack Jack and the babysitter which is really fun and I think that stuck in his brain of oh the family still doesn't know that Jack Jack has powers.

[01:21:05] Yeah syndrome knows the babysitter intentionally makes it because in the final thing which was then he shows off to syndrome he's too far up right. And I think that was the one comedic device he was like a hundred percent passionate about towards making a sequel was.

[01:21:18] It did not get an Academy Award nomination. Bomber. Mike's new car did maybe you think of that. Yeah. Yeah go on sorry. Which Mike's new car f**ks. Sure great car yeah. That that feels like that was always in place and then he reverse engineered from there

[01:21:33] oh it'd be fun if Bob was the one who had to take care of him. Yeah which again just seems logical. Right and so that means it has to take place in the same time period you don't want to

[01:21:40] check Jack any older you don't want them having discovered the powers yet all of that. You can see a version in this movie a lot of people were just gone well it gets legalized. There's no movie about them fighting legalization. Totally you could do the second movie.

[01:21:52] Syndrome court of public opinion and maybe convinces the politicians. That's and that's part of my argument and I don't know about development. I'm just talking about the movie I see yeah.

[01:22:00] Yeah that and that feeds to me into the argument I'm making about like this is a movie that's about superheroes and we're there's so many superheroes in our culture. Like it's about superheroes in our culture right because that's what Winston is like superheroes belong in our culture.

[01:22:16] They're good for people. Because they're a force for good yeah and Evelyn eventually you know when she's revealed because at first she's more just like I'm the tech lady yeah is like superheroes are convenience and they don't like you know they don't let people help themselves right.

[01:22:32] Like you know that's that's and like my dad's dying because he's like well blah will save me instead of like yeah dealing with anything himself. Right so her argument is my father invested too much in this idea of superheroes

[01:22:44] and it's just it's like a gossip in right it's a gossip right. It's like she says convenient there's that big the big moment in the movie is the that sexy the Anthony Lane's boner moment their big convo about this versus idealism which we'll get

[01:22:58] there we'll get to right but um but first they make this pitch where it's like elastical is going to be the hero. I at this moment in the film go okay so they're both in on it they're both going to

[01:23:08] be the bad guys yeah right there's some weird this is a ball and shell game that they're doing in the same way a thing I love about syndrome in the first movie is he's like

[01:23:19] I want to kill all the superheroes so that I can look like a superhero because I'll be the only one who can solve my own problem. Yes yeah yeah he won right that's his his concept is it'll all be staged because then I look great.

[01:23:33] He wants to win over the public right and so he has to create but he should be at it I mean he's bad at it like for even a second because whenever his wristband gets knocked off and it all goes wrong.

[01:23:43] So then this movie is getting so literal about the sort of like branding PR relations yes yes yes the superheroes being sold to us they are brands and here they are their big company they're kind of creepy like Elon Musk.

[01:23:56] This weird right industrial like they're like what are they like a telecommunications company right but it's like no but they want to help the public right and you're like okay but it seems like a lot of decisions are just being made by two people and

[01:24:07] Odin Kirk who has always had a dark side is playing so positive so cheery so boisterous in this that I'm like they have to be setting up a heel turn yeah Evelyn seems more jaded

[01:24:18] I was like maybe she's the misdirect uh-huh my inclination is both of them are in on it and somehow bringing superheroes to the forefront is going to help their bottom line

[01:24:27] some cause that they have no I right I get that the second viewing is good for that because Winston's character makes much more sense or well I just Winston's character felt deeper to me on the second viewing because because he felt a little thin

[01:24:40] friend the first viewing and I love it he's so like it's like bird is not making like bird is criticizing his sweetness almost where he's like I like what I like this stuff makes

[01:24:51] me feel good yeah like because he has that monologue where he's like you know smell the flowers like you know or he's like he's a genuinely optimistic guy and that is kind of his undoing like he can't see the bad side of anything and Evelyn talks about how

[01:25:07] he's like the great salesman that's question of like who has more value the salesman or the inventor yeah that's the part of their sort of optimistic conversation right which made me feel like okay he seems like he's devious in some way obviously salesman we always think of

[01:25:20] as being slippery at the very least kind of overly slick the Brad Bird but do you think the notion is that like he's such a good salesman just because he is kind of that infectious right he believes in his Billy Mitchell or whatever he's just this guy

[01:25:33] who sells the passion for the thing there is no dark side to him no there's a blind spot to him blind spot and that's what screenslaver slash Evelyn is thinking you know where she says like

[01:25:43] people believe what they're sold and that's a weakness and like superheroes are the ultimate version of that where it's just like here's a person who solves all your problems and it's like over and over again in the movie like there's this I wrote some things down like

[01:25:55] there's like this ad for like so easy even the man can do it like as he's like pulling something out of an oven like right in the middle of a crucial scene like bird keeps dropping all this

[01:26:04] shit in where he's like ordering on Robo cop yeah yes totally I'm trying to there was another thing you know they're both selling supers right uh-huh but they both have these sort of blinkered

[01:26:16] points of view right her blinker points of view point of view is like making them these like robotic monsters at the end of the movie but he's trying to get into something about

[01:26:25] people not wanting to do the work anymore just right which you know right which feels like Brad Bert like you know it's a thing I've been thinking about he's such an individualist even if he claims

[01:26:35] like bollocks nonsense I've just made six movies about the power of the individual but you know no of course not like I think I've been thinking about a lot recently which I think ties into both of these movies because there's been so much conversation about like toxic fandom

[01:26:53] recently right and the first movie is right because even like in the time between he's a toxic I'm your biggest fan which is more clear now than when we recorded that episode in February

[01:27:03] it's true you know I feel like that's a shift of like a couple months totally just like because it hits how possessive he is of his fandom and he obviously wasn't commenting on a thing that

[01:27:14] was as culturally obvious at the time but he was commenting on an ideology that's tied into this sort of thing and you know we always act like everything's the worst right now but

[01:27:22] you know shit was bad then too there were dicks back then too but what's the root of that thing is I think uh uh Joe row did a twitter thread about this Joanne Robinson has been doing some great

[01:27:32] work about fandom yeah because she is a big fan herself and she's someone whose career is based on her yes fandom of certain things that is true and also she has to deal with fan community yes

[01:27:42] but she was talking about I believe it was her and I'm not misattributing this it was either her anthony lane yeah I wanted to she was saying boy oh did she had she talked about like the popcorn and going everywhere yeah exactly a projectile popcorn um

[01:27:56] she was saying that the thing that gets kind of dangerous is this idea of fandom being part of your identity yes yes right and I see the way that people talk about fandom now oh I'm new to this

[01:28:07] fandom right when people are like I just started watching the flash it's not that anymore it's I'm new to the flash fandom you right and it's like I have joined this church what are the things

[01:28:17] we believe in what are our what are my options who's my ship here like who's my favorite character who's my least favorite character right and it becomes part of your identity in a way that I

[01:28:26] think gets very dangerous all three of us love shit right we are people who are fanatical about our things we have our big like things that we fucking love and spend a lot of time looking

[01:28:36] into and thinking about and working on working around and all of that um but even at my most obsessive moments I've never felt that sort of like this thing I love dictates what kind of person

[01:28:48] I need to be totally that is it's the opposite it's like these things I love reflect on things in my personality which I'm seeing in these other things that I like not I need to reflect myself

[01:29:02] reflect the fandom in what you're right no you're yeah I do get what you're saying um and I feel like that's a thing this movie is kind of grappling with is this idea of like

[01:29:11] like superheroes make it very easy to be like oh I'm a pro superhero person let's have superheroes I like the costumes all that's great theme songs and also they'll fix everything I don't have to

[01:29:21] think about anything ever again right which like you see that which was her dad's undoing but you even see that with political ideology now where it's not just like I like this candidate it's like I am so deep in on this person that anything he does must be

[01:29:35] the right thing to do or she right which I think is where like toxic Bernie Bros come from is that people got so into this idea that like no this is the only honest one right yeah

[01:29:43] that then when weird shit started happening it's like then I have to attack the other candidate right becomes very negative right yeah because it becomes so personal some people like that about Bernie Sanders and some people are like that about the flash like you're saying right and

[01:29:58] Evelyn Devere it feels like at the beginning is just kind of like dismissive of like this don't buy into this fucking thing we yes yeah right she talks about convenience and like the myth of it

[01:30:11] you know and then that's what screenslaver is monologuing about in his big monologue you know which I also but then he's also you watch game shows like you know like all that stuff

[01:30:20] you don't talk you watch shows yeah um but I also he's also talking about a sort of lack of engagement which I guess is not doing the work it's wanting to live a more removed life like the

[01:30:34] blinders on right yeah um but what I don't understand and let's jump ahead towards the you know sure well not not no no I mean it's not even hard no but we won't this is my question to you and I

[01:30:46] don't say this and I'll like this is why the movie is bad I'm like I haven't practiced yet oh my god swear to me oh hey bats fuck um did your own bit yeah uh this is a thing I couldn't crack watching

[01:31:00] and I say this in the least cinema sins oh sure okay explain to me why this isn't like what you're there's there's a problem with her plan that you can't think around

[01:31:11] I don't understand why this is the course of action she takes but okay is letting her brother get the superhero things off the ground creating a straw man hypnotizing people right in order to

[01:31:24] well like she wants the superheroes on the biggest stage possible right which is this big bill she wants to humiliate them the most public way it's not really humiliation she's making them frightening like it's a narrative in and of itself right like it because like they give these

[01:31:39] monologues where they're like you know for too long you have been mistreated us right like it's a whole thing where she is manipulation though feels like it's it's so much better so many steps

[01:31:53] but that's her villain power right I mean that's what she is she's like an addict but but here's my question to you okay yes they're already illegal right at the moment the movie starting it's like

[01:32:04] fuck I guess we can't do this anymore and all the superheroes are under threat of retirement the only thing that gives them the courage to think they can do it again is Winston no it's not Winston people are already into it they just rescued from like all the

[01:32:17] shit the syndrome and the undermind are like immediately we're like shut down well they're shut down by the government right but like all right so again one thing I want to put like so bud lucky has that crucial line to me about politicians don't understand people who do

[01:32:30] good things not bud luckiest Jonathan banks you're right but lucky is the right that guy eat that yeah r.i.p. Rick Decker right more like riff Decker okay come on fans holding up yell

[01:32:42] card so not the yellow card and then not long after you have this part where they're in the car going to Winston's fancy house and you hear over the radio people saying like you know Americans

[01:32:55] trust like congress less than they trust a monkey with a you know dart or whatever right like a monkey throwing darts but the end of the movie they they save the day yeah right they arrest

[01:33:08] Evelyn yeah what happens what happened what's the reaction to Evelyn being arrested from the film's best character I violet says she's just she's rich she's just going to buy her way in our prison

[01:33:20] immediately that is like this is a movie about like total distrust in like the institutions right and he's peppering it in right from the start pepper pepper pepper pepper it's good shit

[01:33:31] but here's my thing yeah I am and again I'm politically I'm like I don't know bread like chill out but I'm just saying like as his vision a lot of ideas a lot of ideas like their points in

[01:33:41] this movie first time I saw it I was like a lot of ideas second time I saw it I was like oh this is unified it makes much more sense to me this doesn't kill the movie for me but their points in the

[01:33:49] movie where I just felt a little bit of the bird man thing where it's like oh so characters are just going to speak in op-ed headlines sure and you're just going to pepper in a lot of large

[01:33:59] notions that you're not necessarily that's a fair criticism I mean he definitely for me that's what drives me insane about that movie we're just one series but per man's just monologues too it's just

[01:34:09] like and none of the characters are characters none of the characters are characters it's just like so this is up rocks fighting with the bird man is so bad god name a character from bird man

[01:34:20] apart from bird man yeah who's great obviously uh mean critic mean critic stoned teenager that's so clearly the most embarrassing best picture winner the last 15 years that when people say otherwise it drives me insane yeah I think we're embarrassing the crash crash is pretty bad I think

[01:34:37] crash is like a stain on the nation I agree man's just like a bad movie I find bird man so much more arrogant than crash though crash is just like this is so fucking naive what was the what was

[01:34:49] the old movie oh the artist yeah that one's not great that's just like that's just like a fucking gentleman's five you're just like yeah okay yeah the artist you're like yeah I mean I didn't

[01:35:01] like I wasn't mad bird man good dog I guess I agree I know I'm on board with you basically but like at least when I watch bird man not that I'm gonna yeah I'll be like you know I was well made

[01:35:15] I like the score the crash isn't even well made like crash is just bad it's like a tv movie it's just crazy it is crazy to crash like almost one straight to dvd and then in a

[01:35:24] winning this picture and like both fates are plausible yeah right yeah um what I was going to say was I do not sit there in the theater looking for plot holes or logic sure no I'm saying I hate that kind

[01:35:41] of movie watch no I know you do I know I buy your argument when she is doing this you're just like why is this her play here's what I like out of movies and I think Pixar especially has a very

[01:35:51] good track record of this lining everything up very smoothly I like when they answer my questions before I've even asked them that's always a satisfying feeling right when it's just like oh so now you've

[01:36:00] explained why that's not oh I get why this is the one way this movie has to go you're right she has everything feels very inevitable she has such an exaggerated power which is that she can hypnotize

[01:36:10] people right and there's so many directions and also outside of that you go she's incredibly smart and she can apparently create any technology so this sure it's all broadcast technology that's her thing she makes the little cameras she hacks into it's always broadcast that's

[01:36:24] her thing I'm saying her power is greater as you said in terms of her her strategy her you know her technological ability we're focusing in on this one thing she can do which is insanely powerful but

[01:36:34] also she has even more power outside of that and what I ask you is here's a question when I asked you is when I asked you is here's a question I wish the movie didn't make me have to ask

[01:36:47] why doesn't she team up with the government I don't know maybe she doesn't like me there because she has a common like that's an ally with a common enemy so why does she let her brother go down this road

[01:37:00] and then just try to fight against her brother I mean or is it just chaos for chaos sake then okay that's true no I see what she said she said she talks about how good her brother

[01:37:11] is selling at selling things right and I think she wants to harness that she wants to get them on this big stage where she can sort of turn people against heroes forever I don't know I mean that's

[01:37:20] that's my counter but I get your point I think she just kind of like shrugs off her brother is like you know he's whatever if it was right but I'm saying if it was like I want to let him try to

[01:37:31] do this so I can not only embarrass superheroes but him right that would be one thing for me I'm not saying that's the answer I want no she's not like something like that I would go

[01:37:40] like well that's why she has to do it this way no her brother she has to let her brother get the superheroes off the ground so that she can bring in a supervillain to beat him at his own game

[01:37:51] instead I'm like you have to hire like hypnotize pizza boys to then present a public face so that you know that makes sense to me because that's her and bird being like this is all

[01:38:03] like this is all just like narrative it's not there's not ideology like you know what I mean like here you're by a hero villain fight since you know let me that's what she said that's a

[01:38:11] screen slavery he's so screen slaver who by the way looks super cool yeah looks cool I wish he was visually on screen a little more people said that but I was like I mean to me I'm just

[01:38:21] like he looks like a cool skull man do you know what I honestly would have liked I would have liked and this gets into the fantastic four thing a great device in the

[01:38:29] fantastic four is the doom bot thing sure which is in there from I think his first appearance where it's like dr doom who's a dude wearing this metal suit has a lot of robots that

[01:38:38] look just like him yes so a lot of times you'll be on an entire fantastic four adventure and they're like we finally got him and they're like god damn it's another robot yeah he was in his office

[01:38:46] the whole time right and he's like diplomatic community bye bye right and I kind of once they set up the pizza boy thing which when she beats him and at that early in the movie I was like

[01:38:55] there's no way this is actually screen slaver I was like I would like it if she keeps on having to track down different screen slavers if you get to a sequence where you have 50 screen slavers

[01:39:05] you know you want a burly brawl yeah I want a burly man brawl but I also just thought that was like a fun opportunity there that's not totally exploited what was the other thing I was going

[01:39:17] to say about screen slaver he does look fucking cool oh yeah this movie is an epileptic seizure waiting to happen so great I love that when he was when they had that big fight in

[01:39:26] the flashing lights room I was like I can't believe they let him do this this is so crazy it looks amazing looks amazing it's pretty transcendent it also is going to make people yeah I was I was just surprised

[01:39:35] that they didn't have a warning I mean I know they do now they're now doing but I was just surprised at Disney especially you so over the top of that right anything yeah I know but to me screen

[01:39:46] slaver he's so he's so comically evil looking I love it like you know it's all part of the gag so here's the thing that I kept on thinking about I know I'm doing a lot of here's the

[01:39:55] thing the real you know fear is manipulation right like how your narratives get shaped for you without you even realizing it I mean that's smart one profounded point you know but I do think

[01:40:07] you know seraph's a login screen yeah don't put me through that again I kept on thinking this feels a lot like a less concise effective uh Trevor slattery thing for me

[01:40:25] oh wait who's Trevor slattery again fake Mandarin oh I love that though that's why I'm bringing it up because you and I both recognize that Iron Man 3 is the best of the Marvel movies don't at me

[01:40:36] it's a masterpiece the fact that people hate it makes me insane crazy but also I feel like when people hate it that's always the thing they bring up they're like I hate that the movie makes

[01:40:45] me invest in a fake villain for half the film that's stupid only to reveal Iron Man 3 spoilers that he's actually just a media manipulation and I love that like when the movie starting out

[01:40:55] like I mean that is a movie about the military industrial complex it's a movie where Don Cheadle is rebranded into this red white and blue superhero yeah which is basically just like a shell game to kill the president and like that's and the Mandarin is like a media

[01:41:10] creation by the state he's the most comical version of like a that times villain which is like this sort of vaguely Middle Eastern hero a villain with like you who's like America is very bad

[01:41:23] you know like you know they they took amalgamation of villains they took the Mandarin who's like a horrible Fu Man Shu right in the comics he's just like literally just like a red Chinese

[01:41:35] villain right like he's just like the other and instead they in the movie turn him into like a Joel Silver version of Osama bin Laden right exactly right which I'm watching and I'm

[01:41:44] like okay first of all Ben Kingsley swimming in the river of Ham oh boy this fucking rules I love the design of the character I like the fact they're keeping him in these videos yes they're winding

[01:41:53] him up so much what's it going to be like when they come face to face and then the reveal of like oh that's all he is he's literally a series of viral videos he's a piece of branding to sell

[01:42:01] this notion but then I think there's literally a complicated shit joke in the movie where he's like do not go in there yeah you know it's great which is the moment they should have

[01:42:09] gave Ben Kingsley the Oscar they should have stopped the projector at the first screening and just handed him an honorary award correct but I think the killing thing really tracks in that movie

[01:42:20] and I'm not saying killing is like cinematically the best villain ever but you also totally get where he's coming from I think it's a great rebuke of everything that sucks about Tony Stark the fact that they've made you buy into this franchise about a guy who's essentially an

[01:42:33] asshole right yeah and it's like yeah he fucked over everyone for like 20 years until he finally gained a conscience but guess what he also was like a war prophet here for decades before that

[01:42:41] yeah that's a movie and also on a great movie on a micro level look at him just like fucking dunking on this nerd and thinking like I'm so cool I'm funny I'm Robert Dianne Jr. I can get away with it

[01:42:51] and this guy held a grudge for 20 years agreed which is why I'm in through rules and we'll do an episode on it one day want to mention yeah space force Trump is militarizing space

[01:43:00] yeah we need an aloha sequel right now that deals with this that's all I wanted to say yeah this is a moment where like read Hastings could step up and upload all of Netflix into the

[01:43:10] space for satellite upload fucking that cigar rose song or whatever the fuck it is into the satellite it blows up yeah and then you have fallen love with the white asian lady and it's

[01:43:21] great aloha to to loha right any getting a card out of your eye what are you doing you're gonna go hold out a you get a car it's a beyblade he's not even in a card form anymore

[01:43:37] ever Beyblade yeah I do I remember Beyblades that's the most insulting thing you've ever done towards me sorry no I'm starting to get a migraine cool yeah only four more episodes

[01:43:47] you want to take a break no just keep going I mean you can walk out of the studios with no I'm okay all right I find the decoy villain thing oftentimes frustrating and I agree with that

[01:43:59] but but Iron Man 3 is one of the examples where it doesn't deflate for me because A I think what they're saying about propping up this fake villain is smart I got we gotta get

[01:44:06] off Iron Man 3 we both agree on it I'm watching me build this bridge right now and killing a bridge remain satisfying right yeah I do find a a gulf between screen slaver as a

[01:44:19] fake media idea and Evelyn but I can't totally bridge I think it's a fair criticism I also think I got I also think he keeps doing these movies where the villains are people inventors tech people yeah with no powers yes and he does keep making these movies about

[01:44:36] this sort of individual rights of inherently gifted people right where the villains are not I mean they're gifted with intellect or whatever you're getting to this argument Twitter isn't a little weird that in both of these movies the villains have been

[01:44:48] not saying that's what I'm saying I will gossbrook that brought that up and I was like it's fair goss and I responded with like I do think it genuinely terrifies it's the core thing with Evelyn and syndrome is that they're amoral they're not using their technology for anything

[01:45:03] but what they want and you know they don't care about killing people and that's the big showdown with Helen and Evelyn at the end that's what they're fighting about yeah yeah but you know I think it would do him well to have like a

[01:45:17] like a super villain you know like a classic super villain I think so too I don't maybe maybe he just thinks too hard about this stuff and he always like is like well but what if I add

[01:45:25] like this extra layer to it you know I would love to see him make an Incredibles 3 where they're not fighting a civilian creating a strong man identity I would like to see someone of equal power to the Incredibles with a combating ideology yeah the scariness of

[01:45:41] what if someone has the same level of ability yes is gifted and doesn't care yeah you know or cares about the wrong thing which is a basic superhero trope but it's also like look he's deconstructed stuff enough our culture is deconstructed stuff enough that there's no

[01:46:00] reason not to just let Bradford do a better version of that and in a certain way that feels more classical to just do that now maybe we're gonna have to wait 14 more years to

[01:46:09] make incredible 3 I have no idea but let's talk about a couple set pieces in between okay so yeah I was gonna say because we don't have to go through all the plot because that well here's what they do they everyone just saw them there's two parallel lines so

[01:46:19] there's the Helen stuff and there's the Bob stuff so the Helen stuff the first set piece is the motorcycle set piece with the monorail that's going the wrong way sure I just rules right and and the elastop cycle splits in half fucking great yeah that's fucking cool

[01:46:33] this thing my favorite moment is when she's driving on both sides of the tunnel over the train like movies are cool I know but these movies are and also it's like elastogirl is endlessly fun yeah in animation you can do so much shit with her

[01:46:48] yeah her body your your sort of sort of taciturn about this please stop talking about her body that way I also just love comedically the showcasing the new house sequence sure which is like just kind of feels like animation

[01:47:06] porn for a little bit right and then the comedic game reveals itself which is dash now can't stop hitting buttons and the buttons are contrasting with each other like of course it's inconvenient to have like water can just appear anywhere and also

[01:47:20] like furniture can rise up from the basement like yes very fun when the couches are getting crushed in the water love yeah the other Helen stuff is right is her meeting these new superheroes

[01:47:34] avoid is the only one that is even given like a quarter of characterization the rest of them are just kind of comedic types right but I'm into that screech screech is cool yeah brick is kind of

[01:47:47] weird brick is I was like what's going on here yeah bricks fascinating yeah I have seen people online wondering if brick is transphobic interesting I'd be interested to know who voiced brick I don't even know who voiced brick I was looking at the credits and it was a

[01:48:02] lot of just kind of like journeyman voice artists yeah but film are who bush plays two boy he's a classic he does electrics who is the electricity guy playboy siru dude which I just

[01:48:13] like because visually I like that and then crusher who's funny right the uncrush thing is right the void power I think is awesome that bit so coffee oh it's great looks like Kristen Stuart I

[01:48:24] wonder if they offered it to her maybe she also kind of looked like Katy Perry in she had a real hair color I think facially she looks really Kristen Stewart I think facially you look like Kristen Stewart um reflux who is a real griffin character

[01:48:41] yeah I was like so surprised by the fact that I wasn't like all in on reflux I had no problems but I was like oh man I'm gonna fucking love this guy barf salt lava yeah he's an old man what they

[01:48:52] say I can't tell if it's a disorder or a power yeah something like that yeah funny you decide comedy point and then she has this big of sequences screen slaver where she captures him

[01:49:06] in his house he's norm a pizza delivery guy and it's yes and there's that cool shot of her likes unlocking the doors and you see him in the background of my whole audience when like yeah

[01:49:16] and the strobes fighting sequences cool fun stuff and then on the other side you got Bob raising the kids I mean this is just kind of like home run stuff to me

[01:49:26] the I like it's so much fun totally works yes it's so good yeah it's it's deeply felt yeah you know it's it's like heart stringy like it's good right but it's also really funny I yeah I mean the jackjack

[01:49:40] stuff is really funny like yeah the raccoon sequence just feels like something where bird is like we can have so much fun doing this it's amazing like the shot of him blowing up with with

[01:49:50] flame like and igniting all the now can we talk about the thing that made me laugh incredibly hard during this movie and no one else my theater laughed at if they did they just did like a huh and I was

[01:50:00] like had to take my glasses off for like 30 seconds being like am I the only one the vital plot line is Decker has to bring Tony's forgotten about her because Decker erases me right which Violet

[01:50:13] can't figure out a first she just feels like he's being an asshole yeah and I love the scene where Bob like comes in he's so excited to like he's started being a good dad yeah he figured out the

[01:50:22] math thing right he sees Violet and he can't break through to Violet and can just tell she's hurt and he doesn't know what to do right and then Violet at some point pieces together that through an offhand

[01:50:33] comment that's why but she figures it out right you know how many people we've had to write and then just goes into toll angst motive just like this thing that I didn't choose is now ruining

[01:50:43] my ability to be a normal person live my life and do the things I want sure and I renounce superheroes right the garbage is that the bit that got you that's funny it's when Bob thinks

[01:50:53] I know how to solve this will bring yeah well this is my favorite sequence in the right this is the key it makes me laugh so much stand out on the movie which is funny because it's less animation

[01:51:03] yes heavy well except for the one thing I'm gonna say sure it is it is so wrong headed and he is so confident going into that this is the joke about like oh this is nice over by the philandra

[01:51:14] I can't remember the road of dendrons or some plans whatever it is right and he just thinks he's in line for a dad of the year award right and then Tony comes over to pour the water yeah

[01:51:27] and when she notices him I know it's so funny she shoots the water out of her nose I mean we'll get a freeze frame of it so like her face is just hysterical you this will be the only

[01:51:37] give out every there was like a pop yeah and I was laughing through to the next 15 lines of dialogue because this is also an animation thing I love where it's like which I finally feel like CGI is

[01:51:48] getting to the point where it's exploiting I feel like we lost this for a bit when we went to 3d animation as opposed to hand drawn animation the ability for a character based on circumstances

[01:51:59] or mood to completely change the shape of their head so it's not just that like watersuits out to her nose it's like her whole head like expand and then when she saw the area and she's like

[01:52:14] right right right like her entire chemistry changes in reaction to this thing I was losing it yeah and I just I yeah I mean philandra is the best she rules I renounce superheroes is really

[01:52:27] funny yeah the the costume yeah not being destroyed by the garbage disposal I renounce my renouncement is really funny she rules I agree all her cool force field should is great yeah I love bob with

[01:52:40] the baby yeah I just love that whole arc right I know some friends with young kids who said it was chilling me realistic yeah jack jack is hilarious uh-huh he's a star I'm with all this stuff

[01:52:52] yeah yeah no I know I have seen do where I mean this stuff is like I said it's just sort of home right like it may be easier for the movie to nail it but they nail it I've been sort of distracted

[01:53:03] a little bit my apologies did you talk about um the sequence with baby getting like dropped off oh we haven't talked about it and well so the end that's the ad na scene right yes

[01:53:14] I mean come on that is like one of the best moments in the movie I think really you love the adness well you're you're really into fashion now I am into fashion yeah did you not like the I

[01:53:24] mean the ad na scene feels more fan service because it's like just all the stuff we love from Edna I was gonna say there was a little bit of that you know I like all the jack jack stuff that's

[01:53:33] happening jack jack mirroring Edna when he's jack jack mirroring Edna is the part that rules when he when he grows the little wig no but not even that when she's walked down the the whole

[01:53:42] oh yes walking when he's got the lolly pop that's that fucking rules all his powers are good I was so happy that there were powers I didn't know about you know what I mean like the teleporting

[01:53:52] and the multiplication and all that I love that shit in the other dimension that's so funny and like sort of how they explain it really cleanly yes the monitor yeah and like I love the metaphors

[01:54:03] of all that like that's where the parenting metaphor is translating the most in this movie sure you know like that you have to learn how your kid works right exactly and like if they

[01:54:12] do things that like seem irrational yeah it does feel a little bit to me though like you already have okay so her superhero suit because I'm watching I'm like how are they

[01:54:22] gonna work Edna into this again obviously they can't make a sequel without her well I do right the gag that Elastigirl has this dark and gritty suit right so they didn't go to Edna yeah

[01:54:32] Gagbaggio right yeah they say that line I was like so is she gonna come back angry at the suit thing is she gonna show up at their doorstep like I rate like what's the thing because Edna in

[01:54:42] addition to being just like a funny device it's like the damage control from Marvel it's like oh who does make the suits right yes like good fucking Brad Bird bit well character is not

[01:54:53] character is right what the fuck am I talking about but then also the fact that she's the one who like gives the motivational speech to Helen right it's such a good like you're going to use

[01:55:03] every part of the buffalo like don't establish something and you're saying in this one she's feels a little bit like crush the turtle being and finding Dory well it's not that bad it's not as bad

[01:55:14] I think the sequence is fun but I'm also like it's a little sweaty that his solution is Edna figures out parenting you know sometimes your friend's got to help you out sure I don't know sure gotta

[01:55:25] learn to be a dad his big breakthrough being a dad though is the when he talks to Violet that's that's the nice nicest moment you know where he's like I was trying to be like she's like

[01:55:35] yeah you know you are you're super that's such a good kid five heartwarming points it was weird I was very keenly aware like when the first one came out I was like the same age as Violet yeah and watching

[01:55:47] this one now I'm like oh she's a child and it's not like I haven't watched the original incredible since I was a kid but I also watch it and think about like well I saw this when I was 14 I remember

[01:55:56] how I related to this character and I'm like well she is more together though you know she's no longer the hair in the face she's different now she seemed confident what's holding up a car

[01:56:10] yeah no we're almost done too long it's fair fair criticism yeah that's both of us I guess both yellow cars all right um and so there's this sequence where Frozone rescues them

[01:56:25] well because Bob figures out why does Bob go after Helen again Bob gets the screen sliver sets Bob up to be hypnotized by Helen right and but he goes off and he says Frozone watch the kids like

[01:56:39] you know he's basically told Helen's in trouble oh right so he goes out to rescue Helen and obviously you know that's not actually what happened is Frozone watch the kids yeah wears my super suit

[01:56:48] ASAP Frozone comes in gets to do some cool Frozone stuff which I was happy about do you know who plays honey I don't Frozone's wife who the head of uh HR at for me a dare Clark hey man

[01:57:02] she's funny just got someone from the HR department who now gets residuals good for her the Incredibles and the video games probably is like a sag card yeah it must fucking rule yeah good for her

[01:57:12] but don't I just because in the first movie Frozone super cool yeah does have this one where he like makes a wall of snow and the machine just goes through it you're kind of like

[01:57:20] this Frozone shit yeah like and this he like I like his like ice blasts and stuff like he's fun fighting all those guys yeah then he gets hypnotized they escape in the car and you know

[01:57:31] I like showing you he's a good superhero he knows that he's not going to be able to beat this right so his priority is yeah giving jack jack and violet all the information they need to

[01:57:41] know of how to be able to escape right and like putting them into the car recognize the voice giving them the voice ID um I mean they set up the car thing earlier in the movie with the

[01:57:51] the collector I like it driving out while the guy has the date and him hiding behind the date yeah um Bradford doesn't like rich people right so then then you get into this thing where it's

[01:58:02] like jack jack uh dash and violet realize or rather violet and dash realize they need to save the day and they have jack jack as their secret weapon right and there's the whole boat

[01:58:14] sequence and this is yeah to me this is just Brad bird where he's like bang bang bang this is great but this almost feels like an entire incredible thematic idea in and of itself which is parents

[01:58:26] wrestling with learning their kids be independent and make decisions you want them to follow you in what you did yes sure sure sure that's the thing I get a start it just becomes a final

[01:58:36] act sort of another thing we need to let our kids choose and this is what they want to do right and it's great they rescue their parents this then becomes like one of five or six thematic ideas

[01:58:48] you know that integrate into plot rather than a like everything is you know yeah the sort of like aerostautals poetics like cleanness of ratatouille and Incredibles where it's like everything is on theme we know what our themes are even the things that feel tangential actually line up

[01:59:08] this is like we got a lot of stuff going should rather too much than too little yeah but it's also like he sets such a high standard for himself he did I do did this all does sing for me I think

[01:59:20] it's so fun the final boat sequence I didn't find as exciting as the rest of them I didn't find it unexciting but I was just like the the end syndrome on the enjoyed sequence which is much smaller and so small it's contained essentially within one city street because

[01:59:34] it probably could only afford to render that one city street much like the first Avengers it's like geographically it's very small yeah they're kind of fighting a I mean it's great I

[01:59:44] love this syndrome but I just find the stakes of it very easy to follow yeah it's very exciting in how the story has built up to that point and the rules of how they fight how they stop

[01:59:54] these things what the weaknesses are this just started feeling like a lot of stuff to me and stuff that he's executing all really well but it's like I was just sort of going like oh

[02:00:03] so this is the point where everything it's the soft work curse a little bit hard to be you know come on it's hard to be in a movie like The Incredibles I'm sort of mapping it to music right

[02:00:16] with bands that have this successful debut now you can do anything now you can do anything and then it's just too many ideas agree and like someone else wants to start writing a song now

[02:00:25] you know yeah and like it just becomes a right a mishmash of ideas and it's not elemental yeah right which none of these things mean the movie is bad these are arguments

[02:00:34] why the movie is not a masterpiece in my eyes it's like oh this is why it's only like you know I think an exemplary piece of animation rather than being like a perfect piece of art I kind

[02:00:46] of agree with David that maybe seeing it a few more times it's so dense yeah it's so good it is so dense like I know I missed up 100% yeah and it's also taken me 35 viewings to respect

[02:00:58] everything going on in the first Incredibles this much you know I'm holding it to an unrealistic standard because I'm like but it doesn't immediately register for me in the way that The Incredibles has registered after 14 years of thought yeah I recognize that

[02:01:14] but this final boat sequence I thought was fine didn't do a tremendous amount for me I would watch I would like to know what you think about at the second time it's I mean honestly talking about it right now makes me want to go see it again tonight

[02:01:26] I'll probably see it this weekend but I do think I'll see it in 40x I'll see yeah see it in fucking 80x yeah but I do think yeah there's there are these crucial exchanges

[02:01:36] between elastic girl and Evelyn that are sort of the core of their philosophical you know like Bert is basically saying in my opinion like the heroes are going to exist yeah and you know what makes elastic girl etc superhero is that she is an ethical person

[02:01:53] she wants to do good you know she has a code that she and that's the end all be all for her it's not an ego stroke in the way to kind of is for Bob right I mean no he's not saying Bob's

[02:02:01] bad but you know he's basically just saying like yes this is what's crucial to their existence solely an ego stroke for Bob but he gets some juice off of that in a way that Helen doesn't

[02:02:12] as much I mean I love that moment when he she loves to be good at it when she calls him that broadcast news moment oh and she's like talking about how great she did

[02:02:21] stop in the train and running him through it right and then Bob says what if needy was sexy you think you can do these things me more but you can't he says both of those things it's

[02:02:32] horribly and conquests yes disaster inappropriate yeah I mean Anthony Lane might have been onto something um no but but yes that is great and it also like the thing I liked about that moment

[02:02:45] was I was like well wouldn't Bob already know about it and it was like no this because this is the 60s you find out about things when you watch the nightly news yeah right he has to turn

[02:02:53] the TV on I'm like it's been an hour since she stopped the monorail wouldn't he know and it's like oh right no the world used to be better also worse whatever who cares everything's bad

[02:03:01] everything's good I don't know but at the end when Evelyn is locked up Violet's saying like she's just gonna get away with it and um and I like the violet finds a contemporary and void

[02:03:12] yes definitely I just thought they were going to do more with void in terms of making Helen aware of that sort of impact she had which they only do in the one scene the idea that Helen

[02:03:23] wasn't just saving people in terms of actually saving people but saving people in terms of giving people a sense of meaning in their life by seeing themselves in her yeah um wait ahead oh yeah oh

[02:03:38] as Evelyn's being locked up um she says just because you got me doesn't you know mean you're right or whatever right and Helen's like yeah but it does mean you're alive and for her it does feel

[02:03:51] like Helen's like look I feel like satisfied by this you know what I mean like I don't have to be tramping over you like I know I did the right thing because there's that moment where

[02:04:02] void's like you know save yourself save yourself save yourself when Helen's falling and like and then final and she doesn't and so void has to do it help her out but that's you know exactly that's superhero shit man that's the magic elastic girl is helping void realize some

[02:04:16] shit I'm doing like a yeah I need to see another arc with my hand right now it just you know it's also like I played all the like incredible video games they made they made an undergamer

[02:04:26] under minor game that was a sequel mark wade wrote a comic for a little bit there were all these sort of supplemental like I guess he's never gonna make a sequel so we'll do other

[02:04:35] stories kind of things and I was like okay this is fun like you know the animated series Saturday morning non canonical like adventures but I'm waiting for the definitive Brad Bird like this is the sequel we obviously the only sequel he could have made sure and this didn't

[02:04:50] feel like that to me and perhaps once again unrealistic expectations possibly hard to be hard to be number one also I'll probably see it 15 more times over the course of the next

[02:05:00] decade so let's see where I stand there how do you merchandise spotlight I swear this will be short Ben I didn't even bring it in so we don't even have to do a fucking demonstration or anything

[02:05:10] okay I just think this is a very clever item okay that I can't believe they didn't think are for the first one they have a toy called the Elasta arm that is like one of those old

[02:05:21] boxing glove extension things I love so it's like the grip which has the sort of like crisscross hinge kind of thing and and you got Elasta girl's fist at the end of it pretty cool

[02:05:35] yeah and you can punch someone that's great across the room that's great right that rolls when I was a kid I love those things also there was like claws yes the robot love those there was my favorite

[02:05:45] thing to like modify my body like I was playing with a friend I could be the villain I had like a claw hand if I was a kid and I had that toy I would immediately punch my smaller friend

[02:05:55] you would have been a disaster with this toy you would have caused so much damage oh and I would have definitely hid and then hit my dad in the nuts for sure god what a nightmare why didn't they just

[02:06:06] like throw you in a valley let you die they did it was called New Jersey they did it's true um box office yeah I just want to say one more thing about this thing sure because I like I also think

[02:06:19] the final scene with Tony is really cute the date it's really cute oh I love it love it um and and then the sequel kind of ends the same way it's so sweet yeah right as the first one um

[02:06:29] the thing right what they're all playing the mask on she's like wait also Isabella Rossolini as the ambassador holy shit yeah anyway um I like uh when they make merchandise for movies that are

[02:06:42] like the hands of the characters we'll talk about this in a future episode but that whole sub genre of merchandise I really like when the first uh Johan Griffith Fantastic Four came out

[02:06:53] they tried to come with a Mr. Fantastic toy like that that was just like it's a hand and then it can just reach out further but you can't really like grab stuff like a claw right and I just think this

[02:07:04] is so much simpler and it's like punch yeah you just want to punch people like you want to punch your dad in the nuts paint it red put a black glove on it perfect done best toy ever I'm

[02:07:15] raiding Toys R Us's going into business sales for these um box office game yes the incredible is to open number one right so let's see if I can guess the other movies in the box office that came

[02:07:27] out what was the weekend gross 182 correct 182.6 million dollars highest animated gross opening ever by a wide margin like by like 50 million yeah I think finding Dory was 135 something like that

[02:07:41] yeah number two uh-huh the film that is number two at the box up come on number two so it was whatever was number one the week before which is uh not dead pull two it's the thing oh ocean

[02:07:53] oceans eight a film that you will be getting checks for I probably will get more money for oceans eight than most things I have ever worked on really exciting yeah so oceans eight has made now 78

[02:08:04] million dollars in two weeks pretty solid yeah it's going to make an easy hundred yeah easy breezy hundred I think it'll uh sort of end up in that ready player one territory uh-huh except

[02:08:14] it makes like a third is cost less but won't make as much worldwide would be my guess I think it's gonna do pretty well yeah but not like ready player ready player one did the same worldwide

[02:08:23] yeah number three is a film I saw that soon we will recognize never existed it's just sort of ready to not exist it's ready to not exist just a movie where you're like Jesus and he

[02:08:35] was in it that's a movie so it's got good it's about this are you sure that was a movie that wasn't like some dumb idea you had not even thinking it's based on a true story

[02:08:48] oh it tag tag yeah I gave a tag then you know what you just proved your point because already that movie doesn't exist doesn't exist does have you seen it it's not your story we swear

[02:08:59] um I have not seen it are you gonna see it probably watching an airplane that's exactly the kind of movie I like watching on airplanes it's just not what I wanted which was fun

[02:09:09] yeah that's it's just not so good so it's sort of like the idea of playing tag with friends over 20 years tedious well and also I wanted to be because the movie is immediately you're just like

[02:09:19] this is so fucked up they're crazy this these people need an intervention was it your sheet who wrote the review about like I wish this movie acknowledged how sad this I well I think I

[02:09:28] kind of did she might have to I just it's your that's what it is and then sometimes it does sacrifice for this it does acknowledge it yeah and then it kind of pulls back from and then

[02:09:35] the end to tries to totally have it's doesn't look like a big twist like in terms of it's a really jarring dramatic shift annoying twist yes which I won't spoil renors skin he can't touch it

[02:09:47] yes exactly he's made of acid yeah he's got boy in the ball and renors weird in this movie renors so weird in this movie that you're like is germy renors psychopath is it the kind of

[02:09:57] performance that someone who is in constant pain from two freshly broken arms might give what if he was just on painkillers the entire might be he's a little zoned out number four it's made a hundred and ninety three million dollars it's the biggest flop of the year

[02:10:13] how weird it's like the justice league of this year I know where you're like but it made money yeah well yeah I get that it costs way too much because like Justice League it was shot two times

[02:10:22] but also it is bizarre that we live in a world where it's like hundred million dollar opening weekend it's a disaster right two hundred million dollar final gross a calamity it's true like that used to be like the number one movie of what 1986 was three

[02:10:38] men and a baby which did like 160 million sure it's a long time ago though yeah I know superfies number six devil twos number five did you see it I have not seen it yet and Deadpool will not

[02:10:48] stop calling me and taking me to task we're not having seen it yeah that's his bit hereditary do you see hereditary I have I love it I think it fucks do you not like it no I like it I just

[02:10:58] don't I'm sick of you saying that things fuck I pitched my ending for hereditary please yeah you saw hereditary right we talked about it yeah what's running for hereditary is it could be

[02:11:07] a hereditary he had a good bit so I was sure spoilers for hereditary really I think so let me talk about the ending I've kind of gotten a little more on board because I initially wasn't

[02:11:16] into the ending okay just felt I don't know I just I would rather it be more grounded and not be like this whole like elaborate right Ben didn't like so real so turn towards the super natural I like

[02:11:28] that it goes bug nuts at the end because it shows so much control up until that point right that's fine that's a good argument I like hereditary I feel like in the middle I think a big improvement would be all right so you see what happened right he

[02:11:40] speak and vague speak and vague yeah he comes this thing sure and then the camera sort of pulls out and it sort of gets all like glassy and then you see you're in the

[02:11:50] devil's lair and he's like and this was all one of the devil's snow globes yeah Ben pitched this to me we were doing pickups the other week and I was amused that sounds great

[02:12:02] I'll say hereditary I think one of the best in congress and credits needle drops in recent history oh yeah people try that game a lot the lime in the coconut at the end of like

[02:12:12] fucking the reservoir dogs I like that and so often I'm like okay a little too winky playing both sides now at the end of hereditary I thought I found genuinely amusing I agree I like that

[02:12:25] yeah okay so we're done book club you saw book club yeah fucks Jesus that one does all right I'll say this yellow card good good thank you remember I thought I was gonna get zero

[02:12:36] cards oh boy um I saw book club with uh uh uh Bromley my mother I tweeted this but Romley who bragged on a ratatouille episode that she never cries during movies right was

[02:12:48] drawn to tears by the mama Mia here we go again trailer which is a bad trailer yeah and it was a performative tears right I went like you're gonna see that right I looked over her formally

[02:12:56] and she literally had tears in her face and she was trying to wipe it right right right right but the thing I was gonna say is you know everyone was complaining about how dark

[02:13:08] solo is and we were talking about how much we liked the cinematography and being like if you're saying you can't see the movie come on grow up the projection for book club was so dark that

[02:13:19] it looked like solo where I can't imagine how bad solo looks if you saw it in those circumstances yes like book club it's like I'm paying I'm throwing $17 down in the barrel

[02:13:31] so I can see the brightest most flatly lit that movie was shot by my grandma right who is dead right let's be honest right and my screening of book club looked like hereditary it was so

[02:13:44] fucking dark thank you it's all pastels and white yeah a lot of shadows in this film we're done okay great uh thank you all for listening please remember to rate review subscribe thanks to

[02:13:54] and for good oh for our social media uh pat ron's and drove bowen for our artwork go to blinkys at red dot com for some real nerdy shit and as always cars two makes cars three look like

[02:14:08] cars one but also what's coming next here's a twist but the bonus episode next week we will be starting our next miniseries yep we're going right into it is the films of on lee just gonna

[02:14:28] admit it we lied before when we said we'd never do him and that's part of our devilish charm wait what's the devil saying right now next week pushing hands and the wedding banquet we combine

[02:14:41] this first two movies because most people haven't seen pushing hands pushing hands is it's fine that's fine the rest of them great yeah uh but get ready we're going through it we finally get to

[02:14:53] talk about the Hulk um my friend mr. Hulk uh johnny t hulk um so tune in for that but just a couple days from now we'll be releasing a bubba bonus episode on brad bird's family dog yeah his

[02:15:08] american won't be too long not gonna be too long right the episode no no it's gonna be 15 minutes long um but this is experimenting a way to bring back the bonus episodes of literally doing them as

[02:15:18] like a midweek little shorter drop thing to be able to throw out our information thoughts on the filmmaker ben and stay tuned because you have some burger reports some burgers and also stay tuned because cars too makes cars through

[02:15:45] thank you for calling the burger report hotline 802 eight burger please leave a message with your famo type of burger and location and we will try to put it on the podcast if we can that's 802 eight

[02:15:57] burger in February I was working at a hotel shooting there and I saw a happy man himself farel Williams walk in with a crew of gentlemen and it seemed like all of them ordered the burger

[02:16:15] and I happened to also get that burger the same day all right that's it hey guys this is danish from chicago calling in with a burger report about 10 years ago I was on my way to work in

[02:16:28] downtown chicago when I see a large man jay walking across state street while eating a pretty sizable burger with one hand it was already a striking image but then I saw it was none other

[02:16:38] than actor mike star probably best known for his role as the gas man from dumb and dumber although he's been in hundreds of shows and movies including the most crossing at the

[02:16:47] war at the office and blank checks very owned blue steel so uh someone notes on the burger it was big it was unwieldy uh all he was handling pretty well with his single hand um he had taken

[02:16:58] a couple bites out of it already it was a little soggy I could see some of the lettuce hanging out the size um he had taken it to go because it was still wrapped in a sort of

[02:17:06] apartment paper tin foil wrapping the looks of it it was definitely not a chain like donald's burger came it was heftier meatier I would have guessed portilloes or albeath but those were all

[02:17:17] four blocks west and he was coming from the east however there was a Weber grill restaurant not too far back so I think that's the safest bet anyway that's my report it was obviously a

[02:17:28] pretty impactful encounter as I still remember vividly this many years later so I hope that helps thanks guys and keep up the great work uh yes I'd like to call in an incredible related burger

[02:17:42] report um years ago uh I was working at a bar in long beach california and a one mr jason lee voice of syndrome came in um he sat at a table and he ordered a blue cheese burger it was a uh

[02:18:04] rectangular shaped burger with blue cheese and bacon on it incredibly polite customer it's very yeah it's very nice I saw him in an art show uh probably a year later and he remembered me so just just great guy had a burger with some fries chilled down

[02:18:27] yeah there we go uh jason lee's a he's a he's a burger fan that's all I can say