Insomnia with Alex Ross Perry

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David What to say or to express? All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check You don't get it do you Finch? At my job!

[00:00:23] What I'm paid to do you're about as mysterious to me as a block toilet is to a fucking plumber reasons for doing what you did who gives a podcast is it better or worse than your

[00:00:36] goblum uh well i uh i don't uh no it's it's better the answer is better the answer is better i just proved it was better hi everybody my name is griffin newman i'm david sims i'm drinking a juice i'm drinking a

[00:00:48] vitamin water and this is a podcast called blank check with griffin and david yes we are interested in filmography directors but massive success early on in their career and given a series of blank checks to make whatever they want their own crazy

[00:01:01] passion projects and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby well done it's booking it this amazers on the films of chris for no one yes who we're covering right now old chris chris

[00:01:14] no one lightning chris chris we don't have a name yet we'll come up with like you worked with lolly fister like was he ever like ah chrisy you know like you know he always called him chrisy um uh the podcast of miniseries is called

[00:01:28] the pod night casts yeah great title who is the pod night we will solve that by the end yes of this minister that's our overarching mystery we're getting back to the phantom podcast days where it's a mystery show yeah an investigation everybody's got a box

[00:01:42] i see that was my following reference for you great where's everyone's love in this uh and uh today we're talking about the movie ensemble yeah our guest hasn't talked yet but i wanted to talk

[00:01:54] before we introduce him that's like you know i was waiting i was waiting for an introduction no no no okay sorry no no i made him feel uncomfortable so i was just following the sort of you know protocol and etiquette no i don't

[00:02:04] like i don't like the etiquette we do things like chris for no one here baby we do them out of order sometimes that's good that's a good way to explain why i'm talking exactly we do them out of order but then we explain why

[00:02:15] sometimes um do you want to say some more stuff which we introduce i mean now i have to like okay we've got a great guest yes a fan of the show fan of the show uh a mutual friend of ours reached out and

[00:02:28] said hey would you want to have him on the podcast and i said jeez louise yes i said no way and then we fought and then we agreed we're very excited to have you uh he's a writer and director films like

[00:02:41] The Color Wheel and Listen Up Philip so good and your new movie Golden Exits yeah coming out this year uh probably awesome fingers crossed alex dross perry is here with us in the studio yeah i'm very excited to be here

[00:02:54] i'm a huge fan and when uh our mutual friend publicist said uh you know you i turned down a lot of things i don't feel like doing interviews and stuff and i said i really want to do this he said we need you don't talk about

[00:03:08] yourself you don't promote anything and i was like yeah that's i know and i don't want that at all i just want to sort of drop in on the conversation um because i was a little confused by that but here we are

[00:03:18] does our mutual friend want to be named or should i keep him nameless i just want to i just heard a story about him oh then i want to share is it the kind of story that's better to share if we don't name him no no it's fine

[00:03:28] either way it's just you said rob shear right no well i i only met rob recently but it's through adam kership brigade who okay that's right that's right got you okay our mutual friend pilot ferwitt uh-huh on our warhorse episode yeah uh walked into a screening

[00:03:41] and rob shear apparently just yelled i want to fuck that horse pilot was like uh he's like i love i love playing jacky and he had to anyway pilot had to be reminded of a conversation she had had

[00:03:53] six months earlier anyway alex i'm honored to be here and i thank everyone for helping set it up honor have you now we gotta just address immediately the elephant in the room what's that you used to be a rival of ours at

[00:04:04] videology trivet did you not you would go to videology trivia that's true yes yes you know it's sort of thing that slowly gets sussed out listening to a lot of right check episode we were a law venture a pet detective

[00:04:15] right that was right it's a good one you know like a routine like top three placing oh yeah no you were the ones i feel like we feared the most interesting yeah i feel like you were one of the camp mo hawks when we

[00:04:25] first started going because when david and i started we started going with pilot she had a team very slowly the rest of that team stopped showing up because they were like these guys immediately it was just us to immediately

[00:04:33] right so for a long time it was just the two of us playing against like five six person teams and we'd look at that scoreboard maybe like someday we're going to be like right sure a pet detective yeah it was like a six month

[00:04:44] run that we did before everybody got too busy yeah well that's sort of web nest it gets tiring it gets tiring and also the you know starts at like eight but someone has to get there at six

[00:04:54] yeah man and um don't i know it the short straw of it sort of dragged out but um the sort of format of that and the and what i love about the show is the same kind of deep uh consideration and appreciation of

[00:05:08] movie ephemera well i feel like the the main thing that drew me to that trivia night was the feeling of like oh i'm no longer the person in the room who thinks about this stuff more than anyone else

[00:05:19] yeah you know there was like a kind of flat playing field of like all of us spend too much time thinking about all of these details and not just in like the basic kind of like movie nerd trivia way that people consider

[00:05:30] but like i think we've referenced it before but there was that audio around that was just like movie studio fanfare was just about to ask if you were there for that right i think about that all the time all the time and like everyone

[00:05:39] in this room was like this is something i've wanted to be tested on my entire life that was one of the most beautiful things it was incredible had their eyes closed looking up at the ceiling and you like suddenly

[00:05:50] you don't understand what you're like suddenly you can't figure out if it's this or that and there was do they include the paramount dvd only it was the whole video i think it was even the vhs right right yes right

[00:06:01] because paramount used to not have music in their fan because i remember it's being like oh no there is a paramount fanfare like you know yeah but it was like the kind of fanfare you'd only know if you were big on into like paramount vhs is

[00:06:11] in the 90s well i also want to mention you're a blanky nominee or at least your films are blanky nominees i definitely nominated queen of earth for a couple blankies i don't know if you've listened to the blanky awards i haven't listened to the awards episodes

[00:06:21] just saying you get some shout outs i get so into the miniseries yeah if i knew that i would have been more self-conscious uh i believe it was the year before our first blankies but uh but uh

[00:06:32] jonathan price best supporting actor oh for sure would have been would have been a griffy nominee for me he's my winner really yeah him and moss both my winners that year interesting well i'll go back to those into that and i'll feel

[00:06:42] glad that i didn't know that before i came in yeah i agree and i take no credit for how good jonathan price or moss is in that movie there's so much fun what a hero he is

[00:06:51] hey he is a hero you want you want to watch me get things on track go right ahead he's smiling like a fucking idiot here here's a thing i was thinking about too venomous here's the thing i was

[00:07:03] thinking about watching insomnia last night which i think applies to you too that like adage that uh like like 70 percent of the job is casting yeah the percentage changes i feel like depending on who recites it but the idea that like

[00:07:16] you know so much of a director's job is like hiring the right actors you know and i feel like you're someone who has very good taste in actors like when i see your movies you can tell what kind of movie fan you are by who you

[00:07:27] cast and roles yeah hopefully i mean it's all i remember tarantino had some line ones talking about jackie brown which is something i hope we can talk about later in reference to bizarre third films that director loves to tell you absolutely but um

[00:07:40] he says there's some you know quote the time where he said he only wanted to work with actors that were in movies made by his favorite filmmakers so he was like deniro was in greetings and hi mom and obviously many other great

[00:07:50] movies but i wanted to work with him because of how much i love diploma and so on and so forth and i always was like yeah you should just only work with actors that have worked with directors that you think are the

[00:07:58] best well and there's also this element too of like i feel like a lot of times like every year at sundance there's this thing that annoys me where you'll see like movies starring the people who were in the breakout

[00:08:09] sundance movie from two years earlier right and this sense of like you know someone went to sundance and they were there as a filmmaker trying to get their first movie off the ground and they see like obvious child

[00:08:20] and then they're like oh jenny slade and then they cast jenny slate in their movie because they saw someone else in a similar type of movie like make you know yeah make it and uh i feel like when i always get

[00:08:31] excited is when i see a director who i feel like has a sense of curation of like they're hiring like actors that they love that they've had their eye on for a long time whether it's because they're in some of their favorite

[00:08:40] movies or worked with their favorite directors yeah and i feel like to veer back into real i feel like no one is really good at that so good at that and you've always felt like from the eight films in a row he's made with michael

[00:08:50] kane and his respect for that and sort of post this movie the company he's more or less put together of right a big rotating a serbant of actors and duncork certainly seems to take that to a whole new

[00:09:00] level for sure but this movie seems like to transition into casting like like this was a crazy cast this was like three actors pretty much in their prime and watching it last night i just remembered how big of a deal it

[00:09:12] seems to be like oh robin williams just won an oscar few years ago yeah hillary swank had just won an oscar yeah and then there's like this legend in the movie and it was just like oh

[00:09:21] this has to be a good movie because this is a great cast you know insomnia had was the pachino's first movie in basically three years basically his first movie since any given sunday i was wondering about that

[00:09:32] i didn't make i didn't look anything up that i'm curious about in hopes that it would stimulate more conversation he because i was wondering if this was like the last kind of like obviously seriott like i had a great last great

[00:09:44] pachino did you have any reason at this time to not take him seriously had he not done any because 99 was inside or any given sunday right i really want to talk about pachino because i do feel like this is a

[00:09:54] big pachino movie as well as it is you know the things we want to i think this was the last moment where he was kind of like a capital a little great actor yeah i want to talk should we just like because like look

[00:10:05] let's let me i feel like after sin of a woman the the hit on him does become a little bit you know in the like because he took that long break between here i've got it you know it's evolution and sea of love right

[00:10:17] and then you know he comes back and everyone's like oh he's gotten real big you know and then he's real big like i like him in these movies in the insider he's real big he yells a lot in the inside even though he

[00:10:27] was big though like he did have this kind of respect no no absolutely i worked on serious movies that's another thing he worked on serious movies he's good in donnie brasko he's good in carlitos way obviously is the same way as this

[00:10:39] movie is it donnie brasko any given sunday insider is there anything what is that like so yeah if you want me to run down like devil's advocate too right i think that's the same year after sin of a woman he wins his oscar right so you know

[00:10:50] carlitos way 93 and you should have won for dick tracy but you know he was over down two bits in 95 never it's a james fully movie i've never heard of okay which he plays grandpa i don't know if that's

[00:11:04] heat city hall in 96 the kind of movie you really don't make any more about municipal parking scandals starring al Pacino and john cusack then you got donnie brasko which he's great in but depth definitely overshadows him

[00:11:18] like she knows kind of doing his thing depth's really good in that movie devil's advocate he's you know he's very big 97 97 but that's kind of that's the kind of best slice of big Pacino for sure i mean while the movies

[00:11:32] the movie's not trying to be so serious and he's playing the devil so he's playing the devil and he's fun and he's called john milton like it fits the tone of the film and he's enjoyable to watch that's like ideal Pacino ham and

[00:11:44] then that's like more like a niggleson joker where it's just like yeah you're like i'm here to see this yeah i'm riffing it's a jazz set it's not like wow this performance is pretty right pretty strange in this movie about the devil running a

[00:11:56] law firm it is weird that like early 70s Pacino was like his thing he was muted was that he was quiet you see like scarecrow whatever he's like mumbling like and not talking to anyone and he had this very high pitch voice i mean like

[00:12:08] most his lack is based on Pacino yeah because areas said so that like early like yeah come on you know um and then 99 just to continue running this time he's got the insider and any given sunday any given sunday again he's

[00:12:20] very there's a lot of screaming that's a loud movie in every way editing wise it's a loud movie you know like you know music wise it's a loud movie there is something interesting though that like certainly with both the

[00:12:31] insider and donnie brasko there's a bit of a like a handoff right this is i was about to say he's getting over shadowed again letting younger stars by this transformation performance like both dep and crow it's like oh they look

[00:12:42] different you know look at them act like she knows there to give the weight and he gets first billing but it's really like oh but look at this guy he also still seems up until this point like very

[00:12:51] director centric very much Carlitos way with another depolma and then working with michael man a couple times yeah and oliver stone like he seems to actually care about who's making his movies because even sure that's yes although i would

[00:13:03] imagine he was probably involved with this movie yes before anybody else because even like devil's advocate is taylor hackford who sucks but he's like respected yeah you know he's like a respected hack uh i should from blood in blood out i should mention also exactly he also

[00:13:19] directs looking for richard in 96 which is a nice little movie uh and he directs chinese coffee in 2000 which i've certainly never seen has anyone ever seen none of those were available until they all came out in a box set like six or seven

[00:13:30] years ago there was a pachino collection people were like oh what's going to be in this pachino collection dog day after an oh no it's four movies he directed about yeah exactly and then he takes a little break

[00:13:40] and then insomnia and in the same year he had simoon the andrew nickle movie which was like height i remember that was like people were like this is an oscar play and expensive and he got like 15 million

[00:13:52] dollars for that movie that was like a big salary like payday for him and then the next year he's in the recruit right and then giley that in 2003 yeah but also angels in america which he is very big and but very good and he wins

[00:14:07] an emmy well that's the transition post insomnia he never gives a good performance in a theatrical movie again right it's just hbo like he does like weird yeah movie work because you know he's he does there's that

[00:14:20] merchant of venice where he plays shilok that's very broad you don't need to see pachino play shilok i can imagine that performance for the money with mcconohay where he says talon's in the trailer 88 minutes with uh i don't know ben

[00:14:35] mckenzie right which i think like i remember just the most withering review of that movie was like they even got the runtime wrong it's like 94 minutes they were close enough and they couldn't just trim an extra six off it uh he's in

[00:14:46] ocean 13 obviously right which is a weird role and i remember him very dismissively saying at the time like they were like you say about being this movie and he's like it's always the ones that are the worst that pay

[00:14:56] you the most like he was kind of very backhanded about even being in the movie that by the way was a very good impression thank you very little i think it's like the quieter you go it's the exact like it's the fame is like

[00:15:08] the michael kane on the trip there's like the loud one which is funny but if you can do the subtle one right the quiet ones much actually i can do quiet and this movie is all quiet pachino also this movie right

[00:15:17] is it is definitely like he's tapping into a pachino we had not seen a lot of right that's part of the appeal right i mean what i think there's like two moments where he's loud we'll get to it more but there's some interesting

[00:15:27] factors i think to this performance well that's why i think this is a good pachino move because i think it is about him going like look i know i'm a bit of an old hack at this point because that's what his cop is right well like

[00:15:37] aside from michael kane it's the only like no one sort of older generation casting that i can think of there's no like no one obviously as a student well apart from like where he like digs up tom barringer or

[00:15:49] matthew mcdean has him as a side mo dean or anthony michael hall where you're like why does he want some eighties like forgotten like but the difference is having rucker howe having and eric robertson one of her it's crazy how

[00:16:02] many of them he under these are like you know he's not like getting the like he's not like i want to work with nickle said like you know he could probably get warren betty's attention or he's not doing anything but that falls into what we

[00:16:12] should do a movie with cloney i mean like that seems like the most obvious pairing in the world in this case he seems to have which i forgot or didn't know ever that this was one of those cloney sotterberg when they were just

[00:16:21] buying up all these like salaris and insomnia and try and do these remakes of like esoteric what was it called again they're a section eight section eight yeah yeah i thought for a minute was called k street but then i

[00:16:31] remembered that was that was his hb o show he always used to get in confused he had two hb o shows because he had unscripted as well or whatever yeah right yeah they were just lobbing content as so yeah i forgot that this was

[00:16:41] from that era where like you would just see in the way that now you'll always see like executive produced by brett ratner you just used to always see executive produced by cloney and sotterberg right right right now it's

[00:16:50] steve manutian and brett ratner throwing their name on all the water brothers production that's yeah when water brothers was still like they taking these flyers on sotterberg because he had had that crazy year where he like won the oscar and had 200 million dollars movies

[00:17:03] and then followed it up by oceans 11 they were like this guy's tapped into the zeit guys and they were like what do you want to make the good german and they were like i guess this is a blockbuster he would make full frontal but he could

[00:17:12] get julia roberts to be in right so even if like it's flops it doesn't matter it'll still make a little bit of money so many things set up there um but i just want to wrap up pachino sure sure because i feel like 2008

[00:17:22] when he makes righteous kill with the janiro which was john avnan the same guy who did 88 minutes yes that was when everyone was like forget like i'm not getting excited about either of these people being in a movie anymore right it's not like they'll be bad every

[00:17:34] time but i you're not going to sell me on like deniro's in a movie pachino the two of them together like after heat after all the hype about the mean together in heat to make

[00:17:43] that have you ever seen that movie yeah it's a disaster it's really not good i remember talking to my brother about like when that came out and being like man both those guys are cooked and we were like my argument to him was

[00:17:52] yeah but the difference is if deniro's bad in a movie now it just feels lazy right when pachino's bad in a movie it feels like he's trying so hard that it makes you respect him less in a way yeah no

[00:18:04] well it's just pachino since then yeah he does these hbo movies he's got one you don't know jack phil specter and i believe he is and he has the joe paterno movie but it's supposed to be depalma but now

[00:18:16] it's not oh right now it's fucking leavenson again right six years ago it was supposed to be depalma and then depalma said that that guy who was the main villain on project green light is the reason that movie didn't

[00:18:25] happen oh interesting that guy who's like the exact on project green light like is giving all the approval for whatever and like loves the movie that they made yeah depalma was like you see that show that's the guy that like made

[00:18:36] me not want to work in television but that's like that his like trilogy of like angels in america yeah let me don't know jack the most hated right the word in america right and he gets his kind of like eighties o tours to

[00:18:48] like direct them for him and he'll get his emmy nomination and stuff right i mean he gives one good theatrical performance yeah everyone post insomnia i'd say theatrical there's one really strong pacino which is big screen performance post 2002 are you going to say jack and

[00:19:02] jill i'm gonna say jack and jill he's very good in jack and jill i've never seen it has no that he plays himself he is me neither yeah very good in jack and jill i'm not coming out here with hot takes i'm not trying to argue

[00:19:10] jack and jill is good he's really weirdly like locked in in that movie i mean honestly when you're looking at his imdb page there's not a lot else to really because it's like stand up guys the humbling

[00:19:22] manglehorn danie collins like he's churn out content that comes out in january i feel like the manglehorn was david goren green right yeah i feel like that like should have been it should have been i feel like it was even at venice maybe

[00:19:32] like i think you're right he plays manglehorn for crying out loud had all the makings of something that could have been decent as like a return to form and just it can't get seen well that was every time the

[00:19:41] poster is like pacino looking fucking weird he's got some hair dude looks really weird he's wearing like grandma glasses in manglehorn he's holding a cat in front of a wall what is this room well that there was this weird dip dick that david goren green did in between

[00:19:56] like studio comedies that was joe and manglehorn where he was like i'm gonna take these once very respected actors who now have kind of become cartoonish parodies of themselves look really weird and try to make really stripped down character dramas with them and both of those movies like

[00:20:10] almost work they're not bad but they just like okay yeah and manglehorn's okay he's a good director i mean here he makes like sort of sometimes you're it's more you're more just thinking like what why do you make this

[00:20:22] like why was this the script you wanted to do i don't know i just feel like both of those movies i think those actors especially were hoping that they were like tender mercies like here's your combat you know here's yeah and sparse

[00:20:34] character drama that like brings you back into the pocket so just to wrap here's what he's got coming okay number one he's got the irishman the new martin scorsese movie he's playing jimmy hafa right in the irishman the hundred million dollar netflix movie right also something called hangman

[00:20:54] directed by someone called johnny martin i don't know him alex i'm sure you haven't heard of johnny martin co-starring carl urban and britney snow a homicide detectives cheems up with a criminal profiler to catch a serial killer whose crimes are inspired by the children's game

[00:21:10] hangman so like that's like that's what we got with pechino i feel like i'm gonna throw out a hot that's sort of the shit sandwich yeah hot take pechino should not play cops ever again if you tell me pechino's like a lot of

[00:21:21] a movie i'm out at this point i'm out like how crazy would it be how surprised would you be if you heard the reviving law and order dick wolf is reviving law and order like the original and it's pechino

[00:21:32] i would not be surprised wouldn't be that surprising it would be boring it wouldn't be exciting to watch but so that's what's interesting about insomnia is it does have that vibe a little bit where they're like let's bring in the

[00:21:42] old cop and it's pechino and everyone's like oh you know right like everyone around him is like oh you're the legend well couple factors i think are interesting one uh the character is very different in the original insomnia okay so griffin watch the original norwegian

[00:21:58] movie humble brag uh the eric skuldeberg right i don't know how you say he went on to prosek nation um yeah the movie is very similar in plot all the major incidents are the same

[00:22:12] and it's set in like the arctic circle or whatever right right but it's still it's a novelist it's a teen girl all the sort of details the plot events happen in the same kind of way the characterizations are very very

[00:22:22] different it's like a dirtier movie it's a grime your movie it's a much smaller movie it's less emotional but the big thing is in the original it's stonestarsgard who's a great actor but he's much the cop younger he seems like a kind of

[00:22:34] virile in his prime cop and he's a little disgraced the thing is that he uh they caught him sleeping with a key witness in a case uh so he used to be a big city cop and now he's relocated to like the middle

[00:22:46] of nowhere he's not brought in as like the outside expert the way pechino was here sure i see he's just been shuffled over to trump so yeah he's a little kind of like on the back of his heels

[00:22:57] and he's not revered in the same kind of way that's interesting because i did question halfway through the movie if the movie had done enough to establish why this cop was brought in from la all the way to alaska to solve something

[00:23:08] absolutely nothing to establish it's crazy this is like a hundred person town in alaska they're two lines la cop when he first meets paul dually he says something like yeah don't do me right they're like old

[00:23:19] friends right like the guy asked him to do it and the other thing is i think he just wants to get the fuck out of la because he has like what's going on i think the idea is the la pd wanted him out because they're investigating him so

[00:23:28] they're like yeah sure go but they even send him with his partner like they send his partner his poor partner has to go to night mute it's the sweatiest part of the movie because because in the like in the

[00:23:38] original it's like oh saris guard wasn't relocated to this small town but he's in a town adjacent enough that they were like hey would you mind go checking on this murder case in like in insomnia it's like hey do you want

[00:23:49] to board a like eight hour flight yeah right to team up with hillary swank and the hillary swank type character in the insomnia is not they don't have the same kind of relationship where she's

[00:24:01] as sort of green and idolizes him to the same kind of that's interesting too to learn that in the world of detective work there's like book reports and select she's like i wrote my my kid my dissertation on you

[00:24:11] i love that i love that she's like a cop nerd yeah but like it's not there's not a lot done with that it's just a way to sort of explain that there's like a secret this guy has that she at some point wrote a book

[00:24:22] report on but it also it's an interesting counterpoint to this cop who's just so idealistic and in love with the world of like solving crime yeah it's i mean look i think swanks good in the movie i mean to me has the

[00:24:33] robin rite pen roll in unbreakable where you're like she's doing a great job but she's got like half a character yeah i have a lot of thoughts on her character in the nolan filmography of women characters yes i

[00:24:44] also wanted to hopefully talk about like how like how this movie comes for nolan and where you guys are at with thinking that like because he's such a good subject i think for a series and this i think is so far

[00:24:56] away from where he gets a blank check uh yeah to me is like that's why i was that's why i i raised my hand about this movie because i hadn't seen it since it came out i had basically no memory of it

[00:25:07] and um love the guy so much now and thought this was just like a weird movie it's a weird turning point too because we were saying you know following memento and insomnia are all like neo noir crime movies they're all

[00:25:22] starring adults they're all pretty grounded you know he was almost just like the neo noir guy right and then the next movie is batman and he becomes the epic there all spins on neo noir like with memento it's like a

[00:25:34] neo noir but the guy can't remember anything insomniates neo noir but the sun never goes down so it's like a reverse noir right like he's doing like a little tweak every time right but it seemed like this was

[00:25:44] gonna be his like patina and there's this leap of like okay following 6000 dollars and he makes it with his friends then he gets to make a movie with real actors for like a small budget and it blows up and everyone goes like

[00:25:55] okay this is the guy and then he makes us like 40 million dollar Warner Brothers like nice looking Oscar winners top to bottom right yeah right and also like but also importantly i think from my interest like he lands this job yes like this was something that came

[00:26:10] across because after memento people were like well i want to what do you like now you would go from memento to batman right right right and instead there used to be this intermediary step well and there also used to be these

[00:26:21] intermediary movie right right he lands this movie after memento has come out in britain uh but before it's come out in america interesting i guess it had already done festivals yeah it was it was obviously a hot movie but he filmed this movie from april to june 2001

[00:26:35] like a memento came out in like march 2001 yeah so obviously it was kind of probably a little like trevor or whatever it was like they knew he had another movie in the can before they memento came out in the spring of 2001 came out march

[00:26:50] 2001 was it at sundance in 2001 i think it was i'm gonna look it up uh for you right now while you do that can i say a full disclosure that i know chris nolyn and his wife a little bit

[00:27:00] interesting and they're very great people and have done good have helped me ever so slightly tell us more helped you move helped you yeah yeah yeah just like been supportive i met him he owns a you-haul you

[00:27:12] didn't know he does everything just he may live in la or are they like based in london right okay um i met him because i moderated a panel at sundance about shooting on film with him collin trevoro and cinematographer rachel morrison

[00:27:27] okay and part of the setup for that was that every one of these moderators watched a movie of mine and i talked with them on the phone for like two hours before the for sundance so at some point i

[00:27:38] just got a phone call that was like hello and i was like uh please hold for chris nolyn damn which movie did he watch queen of earth and had like just watched it i guess in a screening room

[00:27:49] and had all these questions about like the sort of filmic texture of it and asked if we'd like printed our titles optically and other great compliments sure and then we did this panel and um the experience of being around him like in public is really exciting

[00:28:02] as you can probably imagine uh yeah he is one of those directors who's become like visually iconic in and of himself right which i also am excited to talk about because at this point he's like a studio gun for hire

[00:28:14] right and like by two years ago when i did this thing um there's like a security detail around him when he walks into a room full of nerds well i remember when like in some uh not this is before interstellar or had it just come out last january

[00:28:27] okay so interstellar had come up right right when inception came out there was that running meme about the fact that de caprio is styled so much like nolyn in that movie which that joke wouldn't have legs if the

[00:28:37] mainstream public didn't know what christopher nolyn looked like that's also an important thing like he's become a celebrity right without doing any without coveting any press at all like uh yeah it's true you never really

[00:28:48] he's not like the kind of director that would be on a talk show it's from like feature red interviews but those feature red interviews like everyone fucking watched because there was this immediate like hope that sprung up around i'm trying to figure out like this guy's making movies

[00:29:00] differently than everyone else it feels like i love i mean memento so was it at sundance yeah so i'm going to give you the rundown it actually debuted in the venez film festival uh in 2000 and then you know so it did like

[00:29:11] doville it did toronto in 2000 so he's locking down the insomnia deal while it's on this festival i assume so and then it's at the you know 2001 sundance film festival and uh comes out in america it had already come out in

[00:29:25] britain last year i saw it in britain as we discussed on the previous episode that we haven't recorded yet and uh comes out march in america and of course it's this surprise hit yeah i mean we'll talk about this in the previous episode right but just to

[00:29:40] like contextualize that at this time he's not iconic he was just like he made a movie that blew people's minds but i yeah i remember by the time that insomnia came out the fact that it was from the director of memento

[00:29:52] even if he wasn't like name brand was like that's a guy everyone's paying attention to now to see if the memento guy can replicate it yeah that's certainly why i saw it opening weekend it was very

[00:30:00] especially if it came out a year later yeah came out a year later in america and uh came out uh sorry when did it come out it came out may i remember may 2002 we will get to the box that shocks me and i'm excited

[00:30:12] it is crazy that's another throwback is like this movie was like a 40 million dollar studio movie starring three oscar winners that it was billed as like academy award winner pochino academy award williams what i was gonna say on

[00:30:22] the blu-ray box they do this thing where they simplify it and they just say academy award winners and then have the three names underneath it such a fucking it's a bra boss move to just go like we don't have anyone above

[00:30:33] the title who doesn't have hardware i've never seen that before i like that it i was really impressed it's a rare feat i mean yeah it's also the poster the theatrical poster was just like floating heads and

[00:30:44] dark it was like a very studio crime movie swank and full right like crouching by the body or something or maybe it's pochino actually no because it's big pochino head with sunglasses i know i think it you

[00:30:55] know it is on it twice like yeah chino and then pochino with sunglasses and then yeah in opposite profile you got rob will the blu-ray cover is like one of the few times i've ever seen like not criterion but a studio so greatly

[00:31:09] improve the image for their movie in the home video release the blu-ray cover is just pochino in the fog with the gun and robin williams silhouette cover yeah it's like really good uh yeah but it was a summer release they weren't like it was a movie Oscar play

[00:31:25] filmy hadn't written we should know this is the only filmy ever directed that he had no uh credited hand in this way i was watching the credits leaning on the edge of my seat because i didn't know that i was like i wonder if

[00:31:35] there's a writing they said i think he did a rewrite on it before he took up but he has no credit yeah but even just that like it was a script that existed and it was also based on another movie right based on another

[00:31:44] movie is written by hillary sites whose only other credit is eagle eye interesting the shyla buff michelle monahan joint but you have to imagine like you know the original film comes out in 97 warnerberg buys the remake rights they hire someone to write it they have

[00:32:00] scripts and development for a little while it's kind of like a precursor to the nordic crime thriller that like becomes so popular and then you know next few years but this was probably a property that was kicking

[00:32:10] around within one brother trying to make some version of it and then here's the hot guy here we got a couple huge actors attached to it the movie is ready to go was an oscar play it was like this is a smart

[00:32:20] summer thriller for a thriller with pechino yeah right yeah it's a yeah um and it did fairly well did good we'll get to that and then led to this crazy success but i feel like it's kind of weirdly the

[00:32:31] most forgotten nolyn movie i mean that's why i was so excited about picking it just because it's so not and also like there's no having just watched it there's no reason for that no it's not like it's

[00:32:41] the forgotten one because like you know it's not like his big trouble where he just like came in after someone got fired right right right it's like you know he made this movie he nurtured it he has like the same crew as as he

[00:32:51] yeah it's just it's the memento crew it's it's david julian did the score while he fist or shot at dodie doran edited it it's like the same memento yeah but that is like a true no one thing but there's just something about it that

[00:33:02] like between memento and and batman it's just it's so easy to forget about well it's also this is the movie where the nolyn house style i feel really solidifies because of the budget because of the

[00:33:13] the sort of the scale of everything the prestige of everything the sort of meticulousness memento is obviously much more like a down and dirty production uses that to his advantage but like stylistically batman begins as far more similar to insomnia than it is to memento

[00:33:28] but people make that memento jump because memento in terms of narrative is very nolyn sure well yeah of course but i mean also this is the last one we makes that is not genre you know in some way obviously it's a detective

[00:33:40] movie so it is that but you know every movie makes sense either it's like sci-fi or he's doing a twist on a larger genre rather than just staying with him this noir patina although obviously you know he brings his

[00:33:51] gritty realism to genre i guess is what he does that's his thing finger um well what do you think of the movie alex i really never even said what we thought of the movie yeah i mean like i said i hadn't seen it in

[00:34:02] 15 years and it really i thought it really held up and it's it's just totally solid it's a like this is the kind of movie that is tv now i was about to say i mean it's almost hacky to say but it is you almost kind of

[00:34:15] alluded to the killing and like nordic crime yep it's like this movie feels a lot like what true detective feels like at its best i suppose sure and i think that's kind of shocking because like the 40 million dollar studio movie doesn't exist especially the non-gimmick driven one

[00:34:31] right um starring you know something but oscar winners and this style has just sort of moved away from theatrical filmmaking um i don't really know if this movie has anything to do with that but like it's the kind of movie

[00:34:45] that i appreciate has a beginning middle and end like can you imagine watching pachino try to pieces together for seven hours well and also right i actually liked that about it and i had kind of forgotten that about it uh because it

[00:34:56] had been so i don't think i've seen this since i thought and saw it in theaters maybe one time uh that it's a murder mystery where the murder is not that mysterious and gets solved pretty quickly like no an hour in tops it's a

[00:35:08] character story really you know centered around a murder mystery but he puts it together very fast yeah there's two suspects and one of the suspects pachino's like this kid didn't it becomes a morality tale i mean that's

[00:35:19] what the movie really becomes yeah no for sure it's about a man in in purgatory or something right like in a in a weird sort of like tormenting landscape i mean we'll talk about it but like that shot of him under

[00:35:30] the logs that's the one i think is great that's one of two amazing i mean there's that sequence and the initial one in the fog the fuck the fuck seems true those are incredible and there's no question that people saw those and were like

[00:35:40] this guy's going to be an amazing visual filmmaker let's see what else he can do because those sequences are representative to me of so much more than what this movie needed to be enjoyable first that's right there's a

[00:35:51] especially i mean the fog obviously you need that's crucial to you know the actual plot mechanics but the things like the logs uh that's not something you necessarily the weird log chase that immediately just turns into him like

[00:36:04] like being like trapped and tormented under this little prison of like logs bashing together well it's just a cool idea i'll say this to like from from having worked with fister i think the thing that like united the two of

[00:36:17] them that made their partnership so strong like walley like hates cheating on anything sure you know and we should mention like walley fister had not done anything before memento it was like a huge huge step up and in between memento

[00:36:34] and insomnia he did scotland pa right you know like so it's like it's not like walley fister some it was like a lot like mora tyranny's guy for a rush him and tyranny were just like if you wanted more tyranny you want to

[00:36:46] get into sundance you had to hire walley fister scotland pennsylvania direct by her husband i believe billy marisette yeah i'm mostly familiar there was an poster for that somewhere at nyu okay with the spatula yes yeah i just remember that was that that like yeah

[00:37:00] the turn of the you know the 2000 uh let's update shakespeare run with an exclusively bad company based soundtrack right um no walley had like only done like b sci-fi movies and had done a lot of like playboy videos

[00:37:16] and stuff like that and then had been like a c or second unit or things like that on bigger things but then memento was really the breakthrough and then this is the movie where for the first time he has like a budget to create these images

[00:37:27] with nolyn and he's just like you know not faking light sources not cheating on angles trying to do stuff for real as much as possible which is obviously an aesthetic that like nolyn shares and you just feel that with this movie in

[00:37:39] terms of like um the color palette this movie is really really interesting to me because i feel like a lot of people would have tried to like go kind of like scrubbed out sure and desaturated you know especially with this

[00:37:51] whole like okay these white skies but i like that the rest of the movie is kind of really colorful yeah in terms of what people are wearing and the set dressing and all that as like a daytime move it's so like

[00:38:02] come unnecessarily complicated the entire movie looks like just like heinously hazy 10 30 in the morning right and um it's a it's a good easy trick that he's pulling yeah every you know every time you're like oh right

[00:38:15] it's it's nighttime like you know it's such an easy trick to pull like and it works so well it's so unnerving at a certain point so so unnerving yeah and this is the first movie where like they have the money and the time to like get

[00:38:28] everything they want you know and to be able to be like what's the best version of this sequence the best version of this shot which i think you see like this is how people get blank checks is when

[00:38:40] they're given money and and the studio sees them spend every single dollar every single cent well this is a Warner Brothers movie we should say and they're they're going to make Batman again and he's never not he's been at Warner

[00:38:52] Brothers do you feel like Batman Begins is a blank check or do you feel like that's landing a bigger more high-profile job than this yeah Griffin kind of has a take i think i i think this was kind of a test

[00:39:04] like i i think memento ended up being like okay let's see what he can do and then Somnia was a test to see if you can like play in the studio big leagues and then when he like surpassed their expectations on that test

[00:39:15] Batman Begins is like the weird blank check test but inception to me is that's that was my thinking yeah which is weird because that's like many movies into a career that started very strong with movie number two

[00:39:26] right it's absolutely in a way that long every movie has sort apart from the prestige i think has sort of tipped him into greater success but inception is the kind of thing where i mean that's

[00:39:35] why he gets to make whatever he wants right yeah the thing that's big about him though is that like he's got this crazy quiet confidence and is so exacting knows exactly what he's trying to do and everyone says he's this amazing

[00:39:45] communicator that whoever he's talking to department head actor he can convey exactly what he wants in like a sentence without any sort of wiggle you know not like in a demanding tutorial way but just like here's

[00:39:56] exactly what it is and it just tracks and so you just imagine if you're at like Warner Brothers and this 31 year old guy comes in and he's made two movies that exceeded where what they should have

[00:40:08] and is able to very succinctly explain to you what he wants to make you just go like i guess we should give this guy a shot at batman right like he's getting like blank checks with like a lot of stipulations

[00:40:19] like they're like here's a check we might take it back from you if this doesn't work out well that was what i i mean i feel like we're not really talking so much about the movie which will be sad because i love when i love

[00:40:28] when you guys do that we're good yeah but um it is interesting to think like this was just a job like cloney and sotterberg had this movie he made this movie batman's obviously something

[00:40:38] they were looking to do it's not like when he walked in and was like what are you guys doing with batman they were like i don't know nothing because i had been trying to make batman movies so many aborted attempts right there's a

[00:40:46] writer's direction right there's just looking for like whoever's going to be the guy that says the thing about batman that makes sense click now and his ability to do that is kind of amazing but even still he's like in the still like he's still just doing these other

[00:41:00] things yeah and that you mentioned aronofsky thinking about this movie i was thinking a lot about aronofsky because i feel like nolyn super smart uh makes this movie plays their game sure does a really good job with it by my opinion i assume i love this yeah yeah

[00:41:18] yeah i even said that i full stop love this movie him doing a good job with this and then getting a bigger job and doing a very good job with that eventually leads him to inception whereas aronofsky basically makes his inception which is the fountain immediately

[00:41:32] after right too early his equivalent of memento yeah which is like this small breakout movie that blue teenage alex's mind yeah and then they're like what do you want to do and he wasn't

[00:41:42] like well what scripts do you have yeah he seems to have said he was like i've got this thing it's the craziest idea now's my chance to make it and then that set him back big time what a it took him just like seven eight

[00:41:52] years to make it he didn't make you know anything for a while i think right there were six years between reqwim and fountain i think it's 2000 to 2006 yeah sounds right fountain definitely came out when i was in college it's yeah 2000 to 2006

[00:42:05] but no one was very deliberate but the fountain had all these problems right where like a star left it i came it was brad piton cape lancet right left really soon before they were gonna stop and then he freaked

[00:42:14] out and there was like a graphic novel and he was like maybe this is the only thing we get from the fountain and then he then it was like no he's making a fountain he makes the fountain and it was like people were

[00:42:23] like what the fuck was that like people were those movies where people are angry about it but and he also was like in the mix for a batman movie and instead he was just like we're one pitch yeah he said he was just like

[00:42:32] i'm gonna do my thing i have my great fountain idea and no one was just like well let's take these meetings at warner brothers and see what they've gotten see what i can do with their properties and learn how to make like the 200 million dollar movies i

[00:42:42] already want to make because i feel like inception was his fountain and he just kept holding it back because even the prestige he had inception as like a concept in 99 he said and he had sold it to

[00:42:53] warner brothers earlier but they like weren't ready to make it yet we'll get to inception right yes um but but that is interesting because erinofsky was the guy who came closest to making batman posh shumaker he was the take that they were the closest on

[00:43:06] he was attached for a long time and i think they ultimately thought it was too weird what he was trying to do um and no one just was like very deliberate and patient um let's take into this moment i really want to talk

[00:43:17] about one more quote okay did no one talk about insomnia to you no right i just i'm sure if i'd ask you would have right right i just wanted to know if he had any like because it certainly is the movie he talks about

[00:43:27] the least yeah now i kind of wish i had or like you know some point could sort of get the read on but i imagine there's there's pride in it i mean it certainly is uncompromising it doesn't feel like it's his like oh the studio kind of you

[00:43:39] know had their own ideas and you can see when you watch that movie it's not mine and you look at it you're like oh yeah no it's no one doesn't feel that way it has that visual trick that he used a

[00:43:47] lot of memento of the the rapid cuts you know to flat like sort of surreal looking imagery that are you you know flashbacks that you're eventually going to put together like the blood yeah spreading on the cloth and you know but especially compared to the

[00:44:02] original this movie feels very nolany it's not just like okay just do an american version of that film right everything he adds to it is very distinct but it is also a Pacino movie it's very

[00:44:14] movie okay oh wait ben how you doing if you want anything just tell me and i'll swing the mic over i'm good thanks you guys are so smart i just ben doesn't have a microphone so hey ben yeah what's up

[00:44:28] come on we're a finest film critic i know and i i yeah i i yeah producer ben it's true the ben do sir yeah the pro doer ben okay you're right you're cheering me up you're the haze yeah mr positive mr positive

[00:44:43] the tiebreaker birthday benny you're the meat lover you're the far detective he just looks at me when he does this you're the fuck master yeah come on people don't call you professor crispy they can't but they wish you a hello fennel yeah please do

[00:44:59] graduate certain tells her the course of different mini series yeah yeah yeah prusa ben kenobi kylo ben yep ben say ben i shamalan say ben anything ailey ben's with the dollar son war has right come on have some pride all right you

[00:45:12] did it anything else ben uh now okay uh no great okay cool so let us know let me just give me a tap in and i'll swing over insomnia all right i'm gonna run

[00:45:25] down the plot of insomnia it's that night mute alaska who's a real town but i think is not an arctic town how ironic i think they just like the name it's a good name night mute more like day mute because it's never night in this movie

[00:45:38] sure because it's the summer time well it's not ironic they mute night so there is oh it's actually wow alex just schooled wow i didn't occur in the current watching them and names wow and it's the halibut capital of the you know

[00:45:50] martin donovan really likes ripping on that in his uh ten minutes of screen time and as my wife looked up filmed in british columbia not alaska right most of the movie doesn't look like alaska uh it has these gorgeous landscapes they're very green

[00:46:03] like very pretty i promise i'm not going to keep on doing this but i think this is an important distinction uh martin donovan dies at the 30 minute mark in this movie sure in the original his partner dies like 15 minutes in

[00:46:15] okay and the partner is the older more seasoned guy oh interesting not the sort of idealistic younger dude you know martin donovan is actually pretty good because he strikes me he's not like anything in particular he's a little prickly he's a little bit of an

[00:46:28] asshole but he's okay yeah and you know it's not like the eyes of a character the character i mean he's the way you know like he's not playing him as someone who hates or looks up to pacino exactly he's

[00:46:39] kind of like respects him probably knows he's a little fucked up like right i mean i like that the movie doesn't do any stack the deck it doesn't do any legwork to establish their relationship right there's no like introduction to how they work together they just show

[00:46:52] up together and that's it and they're just partners and you know like you know they talk to each other and yeah but it's also just good casting because like martin donovan's just a really fucking solid actor yeah and he shows up and he's comfortable on screen and he

[00:47:04] just like he immediately there's there's a sort of like welcome sort of like warning quality with him where you just like hit the ground running and you're like okay i'm buying this guy and see him with with pacino he

[00:47:16] seems like a cop like this movie can just start moving along you also have a real sense of this guy is not in the whole movie yes that is true you know right off the bat that it's not pacino

[00:47:25] william swank and donovan right and he just could have pulled a trick i guess and cast like you know name an oscar winning actor i don't know like even not remembering the plot of the movie i knew this guy was either going

[00:47:36] home right or something was happening to him so uh they are la pd detectives will dormer with pacino's character and a half echart echart echart yes uh they've been sent to last card is the the copiest name i've ever had a cop named hap

[00:47:55] hap echart um they've been sent to night mute because the police chief paul dually like knows will hey do me a favor come investigate this murder you know he was like an la pd guy and then he was like all right

[00:48:07] packing up going back to night mute when alpajina walks into the room and he's got sunglasses and he's got the leather jacket on and his weird pacino hair and makeup yep he's like hey fear from la you're like this is

[00:48:18] no like cop when paul dually is like where you so work on the force together it's like you never lived in la paul dually you have been in night mute Alaska your entire life i love paul dually i do too

[00:48:29] he's a great actor this is the thing i was talking about like okay you got three big oscar winners in this movie like you know you could give nolyn credit for working with them well but the studio probably

[00:48:38] wanted those people but nolyn's real like fingerprint in terms of cast and comes from like the below the line like a dually cat you know inicky cat for sure more tarny like these are just like really good like actors actors five time emmy award winner jonathan jackson

[00:48:54] is really good in this i just i just like noting that he has five daytime memories yeah um anyway uh there was a girl who's been murdered twin peak style a 17 year old girl uh was beaten to death

[00:49:08] and they have to solve the murder she was like let me see the body he goes in there he immediately just fucking nails it you see this guy's the best god damn the tech and nicky cats all like i did the report right like he

[00:49:18] he doesn't like the pachino wants to see the body nicky cat maybe hollywood's most underrated scoffer he's he scoffs a lot in this movie if you need someone to just be kind of like like just a simmering irritation and with the main characters doing i think

[00:49:32] the mustache is just that's the decision they all made then it was such a good decision because you just look at this guy and you're like right this is what he decided to do every day he's like gotta keep the mustache

[00:49:42] perfectly trim well especially because this is this thing i love about pachino being in this movie is like here's this weird quiet like kind of character study movie about a guy breaking down in every sense right breaking down physically psychologically his whole set of morals and everything

[00:49:59] but pachino is kind of treating this to a degree like it's just him doing another cop movie so like you could tell he came in with like this is how i'm gonna dress sure this is how i'm gonna play some of these

[00:50:08] scenes in terms of the movements he does a little bit of his like pachino kind of like swagger shit sometimes so it's like halfway in between like sea of love and something like you know the insider yeah um but the movie contextualizes that so well by

[00:50:25] being like he's this la cop he's the hot shot everyone like respects him hillary swank studied him and now you're just gonna see him f**king crumble so it plays into the fact that it's like pachino is a little too

[00:50:36] old to be like getting away with acting like this sure hey i get the movies kind of on the same page what do you think alex uh i mean his sort of like introduction to the town is

[00:50:48] really simple and i think that i mean he is kind of doing the doing the thing you're describing i don't know if i have much more to say about i like his mumble it's just like it's like it's the quiet pachino and

[00:50:59] his like disintegration into like illness is really interesting and kind of believable i agree because it's not too uh pronounced like he really feels sick and tired it's kind of like hanks is cold in bridge of

[00:51:11] spice where it's like you know like yeah i get this guy's tired without him going like like every scene or whatever his he's just his eyes i mean is the right it's the best way to put it he just looks f**king

[00:51:23] weary like if it wasn't the point of the movie you would be like man he's just like someone's like feeding lines to him like someone's just like feeding lines to him through an earpiece he is like asleep at the wheel but because it is the point

[00:51:35] he kind of has an excuse to like just not seem like he's paying attention in any scene yeah it's actually right it's a good that's probably why the movie is a good pachino movie in a sea of kind of mediocre pachino performances when

[00:51:47] people do their like modern day pachino impression they do a lot of that of like squirming around in the chair and like not making eye contact and like mumbling stuff under their breath this idea that he's like trying to

[00:51:57] do this almost like kind of brando i don't want to be on camera thing and this movie like uses that to like this is just him f**king being off the rocker there's this uh it was in like the last couple weeks

[00:52:08] of uh david letterman doing his show when pachino came on to do like a guest top 10 uh and he wandered in with like the seven scarves on and the hair adding like an extra 12 feet of height onto his head

[00:52:22] just be like oh dav always want to do the top 10 and then the bit is he doesn't feel like he can deliver the joke so he's asking letterman if he can just read the numbers so letterman still does

[00:52:32] the jokes and pachino reads the numbers and pachino reads the numbers as if they're like shakespeare text like he gives them all these like weird actor twists sure but there's one of them where letterman

[00:52:42] forgets the bit and it's clearly a real moment not a plan moment but the cameras on pachino and they're ready for pachino to go like number six or whatever and letterman forgets the bit and just says number six himself

[00:52:54] instead he says it himself uh and the audience kind of goes aw and there's this shot of pachino just deflating and he kind of looks around and like like he's a confused old man who doesn't remember where he is anymore

[00:53:07] and can't remember if he was supposed to say the six or not this is grim and that moment is like exactly how pachino plays sure being tired the rest of the movie which is just like was i supposed to say six or not i can't remember anymore

[00:53:23] it just feels like actual senility sounds like something i'd say he has a big ring in the movie too like a sort of like which is definitely a depth style ring i think his whole styling in this movie was like he brought his

[00:53:34] team in and was like this is how i'm dressing there was no like a leather jacket somewhere between the waist and the knees but this is like not a trench coat and not a real coat either right i don't think nolyn was allowed into

[00:53:43] any costume meeting for pachino's character i think pachino just said here's what i'm doing it's also it's also interesting that like as you're saying like especially at this time there could be like a pachino robin williams movie that is just nothing but like hamfisted yeah idiotic performances

[00:53:58] right and they're both as far away from that as i think they could possibly be at this point i agree i mean we'll get into williams who i think is terrific in this movie but you also has the weird scar on his neck in this movie which they

[00:54:08] never talk about it right right right right right right right right right awesome is like is that when uh jimmy the snake it was just famous she's like she basically is like that's from like you know the whatever case and he's

[00:54:18] like yeah and she's like were they really hiding in the basement at 385 whatever street drive and like and he's like yeah that's that's how it happened so yeah oh yeah so swank comes in pretty soon swank is uh what's her character's

[00:54:29] name uh detective ellie burr right she's she's a cop nerd like you say right i spent the whole movie trying to figure out who she reminds me of in this and then i realize it's kimmy schmidt sure she's a little bit very earnest like

[00:54:41] oh gee whiz let's solve the murder well right and he's just he's dispensing these like really hacky aphorisms where it's like hey misdemeanor you know it's the same as a murder one you know people

[00:54:54] make the same mistakes like where i like i could be saying this like it sounds like something an old detective might like think it feels like patina wandered in from a shittier cop movie with shittier dialogue and the rest of

[00:55:05] the movie is going like wait a second fucking take it down a notch dude this movie definitely doesn't work uh quite as well if it doesn't have that like tiny little b-plot of her just being like oh he's a little full of

[00:55:15] shit yeah but then at the end being like but i get it you know i get that the shade's a gray right right but it is like he's the outsider in the town which

[00:55:24] is good because now we can like find this place through his eyes but then also like she's the insider who knows this guy already so like the outsider has some pre-existing reputation so now there's just like two layers yeah and it's what

[00:55:38] you can sort of latch on to it's a nice way to drop in you know your exposition because the only scene that feels clunky to me is that when they check into the hotel yes and Pacino and donovan had that conversation where

[00:55:48] donovan's like so i guess i have to talk to ia and pacino is like about the case like you know that scene made no sense it seemed as bizarre it was very like 20 minutes later we were like wait do we have to rewatch that because

[00:56:00] it's not being addressed they don't pay it off for like an hour but then when it does pay off it's like oh okay that's just right finally you just waited to sort of fill us in on that it's not that that was a bad job it's that it

[00:56:09] didn't matter until now it just has the one thing i really hate only because i really care about what actors i when people are about to eat in a movie i get excited for the food they're gonna have yeah and the thing where

[00:56:19] he's like uh lost my appetite and he stands up and i'm like no you're definitely hungry you were on a plane like i start to feel hungry for al pacino well look i mean if you if you love eating in movies uh pacino does the most active

[00:56:32] gum chewing i have ever seen i love it especially in that one montage where i was trying to fall asleep and he spits out the gum that's a losing through his teeth can i offer one thing about the gum because he mentions it

[00:56:42] later yeah he's talking to someone about it and uh how it keeps you away yeah which never which then never comes back into the movie but i was very excited for the gum to be what uh and this is a term

[00:56:54] i would love if people continue to use to be what my wife and i call a blender as a character tick which is named after wilson this blender an enemy of the state where a character in a movie from like 96 onward has one

[00:57:07] inexplicable thing as a screen it's like a screenwriting term that never caught on yeah but it's like give him one thing that's their thing i don't know if you remember enemy of the state wilson yeah there's like a scene where

[00:57:19] he talks about how much he loves his blender there's a scene where he asks his kids not to touch his blender when the house is ransacked the blender is destroyed or stolen i don't remember what and he's like i don't know how

[00:57:27] you take a man's blender and then i believe later in the movie he gets a new blender and then we after we watch that we watch murder at 1600 for westley's knife i've never seen that movie his blender

[00:57:38] that he's painting like a little model village in the basement like basically like a train set and we were just like oh this is his blender and now ever since that day that we watched both of those movies on fourth of july three years

[00:57:48] ago anything like that in a movie it's great it's like this is the blender this is just like the extra thing that pechino didn't have in the last cop movie right but now he choose the gum so now he has this one more character

[00:58:00] trait and i was really excited to continue to track that and it never comes back no no it doesn't yeah it's not like he then uses the gum to like you know wedge a door together no just gives him a lot of

[00:58:10] business to do in any scene where maybe it's something he brought like it's like how breb pits always eating a fucking sandwich in the ocean 11 movies like right like where he was just like i had an idea where i just like one

[00:58:20] extra thing right no one's like yeah fine chew gum okay i'm not gonna fight you on that so let me ask you a question i want to ask about like maybe not i don't know blender blender classifications what would qualify as

[00:58:30] a winner and we'll go right in the blank check no question i mean that is goes right there with flubber my greatest my greatest contribution yeah too much paprika and the sandwich this is going into the the term book

[00:58:40] wilf smith and iroba is the converse his converse loves those converse right would you say that counts as a blender or because they later in the movie call out like oh he likes retro shit does that make it

[00:58:53] too clear to be a blender i feel like to me a blender can lift right out of the movie right like yeah right it's something that like can be added in on like the polish a week before shooting where it's just like oh

[00:59:02] we have an idea this guy's always wearing converse we just need a specific yeah we just need like something yeah that he's doing i mean somewhere in my mind i have dozens of other examples but it's just like it's just whatever that is

[00:59:16] sure but it can't yeah so if you have any other questions about a specific example i'll certainly i'll do my best to see if i consider them blenders but it's really in the eye of the beholder

[00:59:26] we're gonna do a devil where's brought episode right with your sister i think so at some point yeah because then i really just remind me then to talk about it has two of the most hurtful discarded meals

[00:59:37] in the history of movies and it really that's another one that i really fixate on in terms of food not eaten uh yeah just to address that uh we had like thrown out the joke idea of having

[00:59:49] have said whatever our siblings on an episode and then people start asking for that on twitter and then my sister weighed in sure so now at some point on the books we're gonna do a devil where's proud episode with my 19 year old sister

[00:59:58] i assume what i want to do my brother too i assume we'll do swat it just seems like the movie that we would want to do the most because we've watched it together so many times yeah but uh i'll i'll ask him if he wants

[01:00:09] if there's something else you would think of but swat to me just seems like the obvious uh anyway i think i was gonna say i like about hillary smank's character in this movie and how she functions

[01:00:18] is that because she is such a big fan of his and i studied him so much it gives the movie this reason for her to pay such close attention to everything he's doing without being suspicious so there's this constant tension of her asking him why

[01:00:32] did you do that what happened there what's going on here without him feeling like he's under investigation but he also knows he's not getting away with anything every detail is being picked up on well i mean all right so let's continue the movie yeah all right so

[01:00:45] they're here they're investigating this crime uh pretty quickly why is it they go to is because oh they find the bag they find the bag in this cabin right they go through the the items and then they find it here's what

[01:00:57] we should do like you put the bag back we should say big reward for whoever brings us the bag if anyone knows where the bag is and he's like it'll drive this killer crazy because the body has been scrubbed he he knows like this is

[01:01:09] someone who knows what he's doing in terms of crime scenes or whatever and he has that one moment of doubt where he goes maybe we shouldn't do the i don't think that's a moment of doubt that's him fucking like that's him trolling

[01:01:20] martin donov you think so yeah maybe we should do it by the books donovan just right and he's like oh i don't know i mean yeah maybe it's a bad idea to like try and bait a criminal with some evidence i remember what do you think and the

[01:01:29] guy's like no that sounds fine you know like he's trying to be like oh i guess it sounds fine oh i guess that's fine then let's do it see i think that's what he's doing moment of like it's performative doubt

[01:01:39] but i think there is genuine doubt in him because he is starting to question everything now i mean as we figure out later in the movie this sense he has like his past catching up with him you know even if you're doing their

[01:01:51] the wrong things for the right reasons um but they put the bag back there which is a little iffy the like rationale behind going back to that place is a little confusing it is um and this leads to this chase where they are

[01:02:03] kind of caught flatfooted because the guy they are chasing knows this whole terrain really well where they're going you know he has an escape route out of this cabin they don't know about they right pachino is chasing him through the fog this

[01:02:15] like shadowy figure oh let's set up at this point they've interviewed uh dron the jackson high school boyfriend high school boyfriend man that guy that guy's a real good teenager uh randy stats he has a pantera poster

[01:02:26] he's an asshole he's a pantera poster he lights a cigarette during an interrogation with the la pd yeah i mean like he's got all he's got some balls for it alaskan he's got some rude to

[01:02:37] yeah he's got a rude to he's got a rude to and uh but pachino is kind of into it i think but she loves fucking with yeah exactly because he gets to be like movie star cop with this kid right but this kid's just like such a

[01:02:49] fucking like unqualified piece of shit where it's like okay he's physically abusive to her sure right shitty to them he's an obvious uh stool pigeon right as we eventually and you can tell they wish it was

[01:03:01] him but it very quickly becomes clear it isn't there's another guy this guy didn't do anything this guy hasn't killed anyone essentially is what he's realizing so he starts mocking the guy for the fact that his girlfriend was sleeping with someone else he presumes right but they realize

[01:03:13] that's the sort of turning point there's some other guy that she's been seeing and because she has like fancy gifts that obviously someone was but she now picks that dress up and he knows exactly what it cost this is designer

[01:03:24] this is designer yeah the clip nails he understands women's fashion in this movie so they go they're on this foot chase and they think maybe we could do like a prequel to insomnia that's about him on the case of like some fashion

[01:03:35] murder in like Malibu what if it's a pretty cold like Malibu knights i don't know i was gonna say it's a prequel to insomnia but also a sequel to devil wars prada insomnia Malibu

[01:03:47] is like the mallaboo in the script yeah exactly uh but yeah so they think they know like exactly the basic type of who this suspect is the person who killed her is whoever this other older guy she was

[01:04:00] seeing was who bought these presents for her so we're gonna leave the bag there and this will show us this guy yeah so there's this chase in the fog which i think we all agree is a very well executed set piece and really like

[01:04:11] actually starts the plot of the movie because up until that point it's like a cold case murtley the murder happened long enough ago that there's nothing it's not like long enough ago that these la cops have flowed all

[01:04:20] the way up this is like the actual incident that like 40 minutes into the movie or half an hour becomes the thing that the rest of the movie is actually about right and then go joanna was like he when he shot his like you know

[01:04:30] you realize like oh that right this is the actual plot and at this point he's had one night where he didn't sleep very well you know he goes uh why don't we go to school and terry at the guy that go it's 10 10 30 no let's go i don't even

[01:04:40] think i know he's just like yeah yeah he's good he's super excited he's good he's he's really good at those scenes because he's saying you got it when they say it's 10 he says some like very casual life he's like you got it yeah it's 10 and

[01:04:54] yeah that's a good way to set that up is really up until that point that element hasn't really been announced either yes it hasn't been like when they're landing they're like you know it's always day here

[01:05:04] right they wait until they're already in it to be like oh the sun never sets original does that literally the plane lands and in the car ride they're like it's so weird that it's always a day here

[01:05:12] lots of good that's a good move yeah i think moving in a little bit later 100 because first you just think okay this is daytime investigation he's had no no it's a nice little right little twist you've had one night

[01:05:23] where he doesn't sleep very well but he's a cop he's miss sleep some nights so like you know that's not really an issue yet okay and then in the fog he fires his gun uh and he fires his gun now the

[01:05:36] figure he's chasing is fired at them so he has reason i think to be alarmed shoots another cop in the leg right yeah shoots another cop in the leg right one of the one of the sort of twin peaks cops yeah he's like oh i don't

[01:05:45] know beach you know like i've never seen a murder before and uh and then yeah he shoots his partner martin donovan hap and has enough of like martin donovan takes long enough to die to be angry at al Pacino and suspicious that he shot him for a reason

[01:06:00] martin donovan gives good death in this movie a nice nice little death very good death but he's starting to realize like did you did you mean to do that why do you do that hap why do you do wow or dormer why do you do it

[01:06:11] he's starting to question if dormer was trying to silence him and dormers very no no no i thought it was him i thought it was him dies in his arms and also like the audience you don't really know that it's not him it's not

[01:06:21] like the audience has any clue that who this is you're on will's side i would say right a hundred percent it's more like by the end of the movie where he

[01:06:28] says like i don't even i don't even know if i meant to yeah we i feel like we still basically know but we just understand why he's it's a great touch on that i feel like a lesser movie would

[01:06:39] keep him alive and kind of have him like really try to tighten the noose on pacino right and also a lesser movie would like 100% make hillary swank his new partner yes as in fact she sort of just like is

[01:06:49] also on the force because she's now assigned to the case to figure out there's these sort of murmurs that like you know that she from her that like she's sort of treated as the junior cop yeah she's on the new does misdemeanor

[01:07:00] she's right she's on the new case which is she gets put on the shaggy shooting but and it's but it's like paul dually's like just write it up doesn't have to be shakespeare or whatever where you're like you know he doesn't

[01:07:09] really want her to and there's that great moment i love in the scene where they're all having beers after they think they've solved the case and nicky cat makes the like hey hey what has two thumbs and looks blowjobs

[01:07:20] this guy and everyone laughs and then you see him just nudge her out of frame and he goes like hey sorry like she's not even in the shop for the reaction no yeah for sure and just like she's with all these guys we're making fun

[01:07:29] of her all the time i didn't know the two thumbs gag went back this far i don't think i heard it before i must have heard it when i saw this movie but i don't know if i heard it again until 2007 or eight

[01:07:38] this guy um i feel like the first time i ever heard it there's some movie where someone applies it's taking a shit okay really go what has two thumbs and just took a stinky shit

[01:07:49] this guy great thank you for that uh and uh but no yeah so she's on this think i was in the king's speech it was in the kingsmatch that's the one that's the one i was trying to remember what it was was the kingsmatch

[01:07:59] just about the king tom hooper loves doing the this guy joke uh did he make no the last movie he made was the danish girl right correct he doesn't have a new movie uh anyway i i don't know why i just

[01:08:12] direct your cars three that's what it is tom hooper directed cars three um so tom hooper uh doesn't matter uh so yeah so so pacino is still on you know on the hunt on the hunt for this guy who is

[01:08:26] now being charged with two murders essentially but also first he sort of confesses that he sort of confesses that he killed hap to paul duly right and he's like don't worry about it yeah and then when hillary swank comes in he's like just give this guy an extra

[01:08:40] couple of volts to fry with yeah because he killed this cop now as well yeah and it's really not clear i mean that seems like that's like their old friendship but it is sort of an interesting really just doesn't press

[01:08:49] him on it at all he confesses it basically right away he's like i accidentally shot him i almost take it as duly doesn't even process yeah he's just like here's what he wants to get because he's basically

[01:08:58] saying it's my fault and duly's like hey don't worry about it i mean i just like we should just i mean because yeah because swank is not really doing a lot it's just little bits of investigation

[01:09:08] but the moment where she just comes to will and she's like anyway here's the case you know we figured that guy did it could he just sign and he like has the chance to exonerate himself yeah

[01:09:17] and he wants her to find him guilty he's like no you really want to you know don't just put your you know it's a bit shine on it you really want to like dig into this case every case matters or whatever right like

[01:09:29] i think that's yeah also a good scene when he calls the guy's wife and he's like hey good scenes but because it's not too silly there's a lot of talking on the phone in this movie there's a lot of like

[01:09:40] long phone calls where you can't really hear the person on the other end yeah and like you can tell like is the daughter answers he knows who the daughter is he wants he knows the wife by her first name you know right

[01:09:49] these are like real people to him because at first in this when the scene starts i thought oh he's calling his wife and kids which then kind of underlines like oh this guy might not have anybody

[01:09:59] like he might be this weird swaggering la cop who just like goes home alone yeah right there's all the other phone business with what turns out to be robin williams with there's a lot of fichino talking on the phone in this movie

[01:10:09] and good talking on the phone because it's like him being like oh yeah you know like having to sort of answer noncommittally and public on the phone to this guy who's like i saw you kill your partner

[01:10:20] and in like super tight wonners like it's it's playing out in full pretty much so yeah so right so he but that's the thing he quickly figures out pretty much right after this like oh she has these crime novels right

[01:10:33] uh this guy's a local he interrogates her best friend he interrogates her best friend trying to fuck that's one of the only times he goes a little more full but she goes full he loves talking about the pile of garbage

[01:10:49] let's see i also tries in front of a moving truck yeah he does have fuck with her just to freak her out i'd say letting pacino stand next to a pile of garbage is a really bad choice as a director because it's

[01:10:59] essentially a pile of props for him to do business with coming where's a hat she's a good team too both of these things are good because they are obviously traumatized but they are reacting by being annoying teenagers rather than like

[01:11:14] you know sobbing and wailing or what right like you know she's an asshole he goes to the memorial service he sees the shitty boyfriend put his arm around the best friend and realizes the two of them are sleeping

[01:11:25] together sure and she's like yeah but he she had her you know finchy yeah who cares i mean it was whatever the the character she hated him yeah she says like i don't know who he was she'd never told me his real name

[01:11:37] and then somehow he just intuits what's the nickname there's a nickname there was it's like either maybe the mysteries are called by whatever name she used i forget it's like you know that's what is it's the

[01:11:47] the um the character the lead character in his mystery series has the same last name as the nickname right that's whatever his name is knobby or whatever and he yeah he goes through the box he finds out who it is so

[01:11:58] he essentially solves the murder there like 45 minutes into the movie right now robin william speaks his first lines 47 minutes into the movie he appears on screen 58 minutes in which two hour rules yeah it's good

[01:12:10] so right he calls him at the hotel and is saying like oh yeah it sure sucks up here you know hard to go to sleep you put your clock in the drawer i like that he put his clock in the drawer yeah

[01:12:21] and then he calls him again before they've met right he calls him twice before they meet twice and and at the same time pacino is doing his little business where he gets the other gun and he shoots the dead dog

[01:12:33] right and digs the bullet out yeah like a lot of shoe leather on the forensics and the ball the ballistics report yeah he's like working hard to fabricate it and the dog thing is introduced earlier we see that he's seen this dead dog

[01:12:47] but i do like that yeah the shoe leather because like there's that thing where he says to the mortician like did you recognize what kind of bullet and she is it is and she was just like i don't know a small one like we never see those here

[01:12:59] you know everyone just has rifles right it's like because he's so she doesn't know like the difference between a 38 and a 45 on site or whatever but like it's it's very complex but it tracks perfectly like he's chasing during the shoot out

[01:13:10] his gun stops working or runs out of bullets right pulls another gun out that's what he kills his partner with yeah his like backup then they pull that bullet out which obviously is a special gun that only he has right special cock gun later he sort of like

[01:13:21] backtracks but he also finds this old revolver he does find the other gun so then he's trying to like just make it seem like this mystery gun that they found it's good it like all

[01:13:30] works perfectly no it's nice shooting it into a dog and then cutting it out is a very strange way to go about getting a discharged bullet but he does it and

[01:13:37] and then he just has it in his pocket until the final scene of the movie what's this thing I love the counterpoint between the two characters is that like she knows such a good detective he knows exactly what any other detective would look for so he's able to

[01:13:49] like cover his tracks and like fake it really well and be comprehensive and Robin Williams because he's like this shitty middling crime novelist thinks that he has the same level of mind for

[01:14:00] this kind of thing that's the best thing about it to me love is that Robin Williams is coming into this being like this is a cat and mouse you know his character right he thinks he's

[01:14:08] got this one right exactly like I understand cops I know what cops are like because I saw a cop when I was a kid and he was wearing a nice uniform so now I love cops and the thing that

[01:14:18] Erick's Pacino most is anytime Robin Williams tries to imply that they're the same type of guy whether it's because they have the same understanding he's trying to do like heat because we're not so different you and I like he's saying like it's finally the two greats

[01:14:30] have come head to head and but you keep so going like you suck that's where the line that you read earlier yeah that there's like a toilet yeah but he like the so he like tries

[01:14:40] to you sort of get the sense that he's like planning on planting this gun that he now has like implicated right or something yeah he again he not only solves the crime he solves his own

[01:14:49] like how to cover it up cover up an hour into the movie right so then there's the great chase where he Robin Williams comes home right when he's there yes and then he chases him and

[01:14:58] that's the law's log and it is the first time you see Robin Williams face in the movie aside there's the photo that he finds and you got this clear shot of what just looks like Robin Williams

[01:15:08] in hook or whatever it's like sure him smiling in front of a river and then there's the moment where Pacino is in the apartment he hears the sound outside the door and then just cuts

[01:15:16] to the shot of Robin Williams knowing that Pacino is there and it's like I feel like the way this movie deals with Robin Williams both the character and also casting that huge of an actor

[01:15:26] as the killer yeah is like the opposite of what they do with Spacey in seven where like Spacey famously said like don't want to be in the poster don't want to be in the trailer

[01:15:36] I just won an Oscar if they know I'm in the movie they're going to know I'm the killer so when he comes in an hour later like the movie kind of like flips and you have no idea what's

[01:15:44] going on and this movie it's like the ad campaign was like Robin Williams versus Pacino yeah for sure his face is a lot of his dialogue is in the trailer you know that rob Williams

[01:15:52] is going to be the killer there's no mystery there no not really but the movie also doesn't I mean because it resolves it like at the 55 minute mark right movie doesn't claim there is

[01:16:00] which is neat and also yeah direct descendant of seven yes like for sure voice on the phone the like all of that he thinks he's that cat and mouse yeah but that that's the function I love

[01:16:10] is that by the time he had a crush on this girl right he's a pathetic kind of guy like in a way and he beat her up because she's been because she obviously knew he was a creep but but he you

[01:16:21] know the thing I love is that by the time he enters into the movie you're going like so what is Robin Williams going to do in this movie if it's an hour and they've solved the case then

[01:16:32] like he has to have a substantial part and it's that he has backed him into this corner hitting on all of Pacino's insecurities I mean A obviously being a witness to the murder

[01:16:42] but also making Pacino question his own sense of morality by how frequently he keeps on going you know it's the same thing you murder someone in a second you know yeah right I mean this

[01:16:52] distinction Pacino keeps making is that like yeah you know you took 10 minutes to kill her like this was a real like thought through process for you she's she's a lonely teenage girl she reads

[01:17:03] these novels she sees he lives in the town she reaches out to him he becomes a mentor figure to her it's very clear that he was sexually attracted to her but didn't act upon it and then this one time

[01:17:13] he tries to kiss her she laughs and beats her to death and he goes it's like so bizarre how in one instance someone you know life which is the most precious thing is also so fragile

[01:17:22] and Pacino keeps on saying like it took 10 minutes like this wasn't some like spur the moment mistake but Williams keeps on claiming like it was a mistake I didn't know I was killing her I wasn't

[01:17:31] trying to kill her so why don't like bygones be bygones we both killed people by accident this is a great this is on the boat right yeah this is like their fairy conversation it's like a

[01:17:39] three minutes shot of the two of them yep it's got to be maybe even longer and then it cuts to yeah because it starts out with like shot reverse shot of them sitting on the bench

[01:17:47] and then when it goes to them on the pole it's a three minute shot and the only time they cut away from it is once to show the water like their POV of the boat right it's really and then like now the

[01:17:56] movie's about now it's just like we both killed these people and I have this tape recording of our conversation right you're going to like help me get away with this or else I'm going to like

[01:18:05] and Williams point which is good is just like this boyfriend fucking sucks you know he's a shitty guy he was beating her yeah Williams's thing is like who cares if we pin it on this guy

[01:18:14] because he deserves to go to jail anyway and he could kill if you heard the things that I heard about him from her that boat stuff is great so that's what stuff is really like a simple killer

[01:18:24] like midpoint of the movie sort of like switching where because yeah at this point it's a total pivot you're like I have no idea what the rest of this movie is going to be like this guy's confessed

[01:18:31] right the cop knows it all he's already planning evidence to like bust him and what like you just don't know what happens next it's really neat the rest of the movie is just his deterioration

[01:18:39] right because you've got that scene where he tries to plant the gun where he does plant the gun at Williams's house right then he goes to get it after their interrogation scene yes and like

[01:18:48] that's him like melting down right like where it's like why are you even what's what's even the goal at this point what are you trying to do uh and Williams is fucking incredible in this movie

[01:18:59] it's a great performance yeah I think it's probably my favorite like dramatic performance of his and it was in his serious year to give you and we know we shouldn't go too

[01:19:06] too deep but you know he had done his 90s like you know thing had run out so badly on him with like patch Adams and bison tenial man I think people were so sick of like close out the decade

[01:19:16] saccharine Williams jake of the liar those are all like end of the century movies and then so he doesn't do anything except the voice in AI for three years and then this year he has

[01:19:25] one hour photo death to smoochie and insomnia yeah and I think one hour photo is an okay movie I haven't seen it since it came out death of smoochie's a masterpiece I have never

[01:19:34] seen death just a masterpiece uh but uh like one hour photo is really leading with like robin williams is a creep right like you know it's like a very manicured very uh serve like sort of strange and settle yeah yeah well and I think a fundamental difference between

[01:19:50] that Williams performance which I think is very good and this one is in that one they were like what if you took away everything audiences like about robin was sure right so he's this

[01:19:59] weird creepy unnerving husk of a man and he looks weird we dye his hair we give him weird contacts like he looks like a weirdo this movie chalmolester glasses yeah yeah yeah this movie robin williams uses all the robin williams tricks like he's not doing the riffing

[01:20:13] but the thing that I love so much about those scenes on his voice man like he's doing the voice they make it look like him never did any animated yeah he would have been so good in

[01:20:22] a cartoon yeah I know you're right I didn't even put that together yeah um he's really sad looking in this movie very sad but he also well cast his character smiles a lot when

[01:20:32] he's talking and they don't play it as this like this richard t joker thing where it's like sadistic that he's smiling they play it is like he thinks he's a lot more charming than he is right

[01:20:43] like this character but also you're in this tiny town where you can imagine how he would inflate his opinion of himself this character thinks he's robin williams in dead poet society like he thinks he's this very genial kind of like kind and he

[01:20:56] keeps on reasserting that the relationship he had with the girl wasn't sexual he calls her he calls himself her mentor during the the interrogation scene where they do bring him in

[01:21:03] is really if I thought it was kind of like the master where it's just like actually two great actors just across the desk from each other for minutes on end yeah and you're just like well

[01:21:11] this is kind of great and you're watching pichino because what I mean I think what nolan knows that you want from that scene is like okay here's pichino is going to deconstruct him

[01:21:19] like this will be the scene where pichino just destroys this guy we have two great actors the movie has told you exactly what's going on with both of them and now here's a scene

[01:21:26] where both of them have to play people pretending to be different right and they're but they both have these very specific agendas like williams is trying to pin the crime on the teenager on

[01:21:35] but it's trying to catch me a lie right and of course halfway through williams is revealing like I know that you planted a gun in my house you know like so there's that but like I love

[01:21:44] yeah you see pichino he's like well what if I try this approach he does that for five seconds he's like no maybe not then he tries a new thing like it's it's it's it is a nice set piece

[01:21:52] it's probably the best set piece of the movie yeah in a weird like in a sort of in terms of them matching with it's like exactly what the joker batman interrogation later is to me yeah watching that I

[01:22:02] was like oh this just feels like he figured out how to put two you're right organic characters in a room and just be like this is cinema and it's the same thing you guys sitting it's the same

[01:22:10] thing in the dark night where you're like batman's gonna deal with this and again a minute in he real like batman's realizing like shit I don't actually have the way to figure this guy

[01:22:20] like I can't deconstruct the joker it is pretty fascinating to me that like you saying the thing about putting two guys in a room making it feel epic it struck me while watching this like that really

[01:22:31] is kind of what no linds best at is like he's better at filming two people in a room than anyone else he's good at it just in terms of passing the right actors writing the right scenes putting

[01:22:41] them in there how to shoot it you know the using the environment all of that he makes conversations feel very ominous or exciting or unnerving or like these epic philosophical debates or whatever

[01:22:53] they are the detail I love in that scene is that on the boat Williams is pitching him like so here's what I'm going to do in the interrogation and put you know it's like you're overwriting it yeah

[01:23:04] this is too much the cops are not going to buy this because it's too simple you need a little bit of sandwich so much right so he says like I'll pin it on the boyfriend and he goes you don't

[01:23:13] have to mention the boyfriend leave the boyfriend out of it they'll get to the boy they're not going to ask you don't give him anything you don't have to but then it works in Pachino's

[01:23:21] he's like salieri he's like fuck they actually do like the boyfriend Williams you know Williams throws the boyfriend out there he starts improvising cats like boyfriend you know that the gun that's

[01:23:31] definitely it and then you see Williams get cocky like he's like well maybe we are at the same level maybe we're both masters of crime right and then it becomes this like dick measuring contest between Williams and Pachino where Pachino starts really laying into the sexuality

[01:23:44] of the relationship yeah that's where he's right which for him he's playing his final he's just trying to embarrass me I'm gonna be embarrassed even for these people he has that

[01:23:52] line on the boat where he says did you ever touch her and he goes no and he goes but now you wish you did huh right right I can the interrogation when he's like she pretty he's

[01:23:59] like she was 17 he's like what's she pretty come on yeah it's it's right I mean it's almost in heat when he's like biggest but it's not you know I mean and you see Swanks kind of

[01:24:10] watching the scene being like this feels like I know that's a little off swing definitely like right this is loaded in a way I don't understand where's Nikki Katz like hey the teenager mentioned

[01:24:19] the teenager let's go get the teenager Pachino Hilary Swankle leans over to Nikki Katz and goes like doesn't this kind of feel like the interrogation scene from Dark Knight what's going on here this

[01:24:28] like from this part up movie set in 2012 yeah yeah yeah this part up through where she sort of pieces it together which is pretty soon there yeah no I mean there's not much of the movie

[01:24:38] this scene sets her home to review her book report on exactly but like this is where I'm sort of like when you finally go into her house or work maybe that's her office it's neat that the movie doesn't

[01:24:47] give her an internal life no because like she doesn't need one but you also I mean it could benefit from her having like a husband and a kid or like yeah or the opposite of that some depressing

[01:24:57] apartment that she never lives in but her sort of like function in the movie becomes very clear at this point yeah where it like it wouldn't have mattered if she had a husband what matters is that

[01:25:07] like she just sort of sits back and pieces this together she is the sort of moral force in the movie like there's this question that gets brought up about this gun that sets her off which I thought

[01:25:16] was like a good callback to the business with the dog and the bullet yeah and then you realize right and there's that scene where she's arranging her co-workers to try and exactly

[01:25:25] restage the crime scene they're all like god why do we have to do that and she's like no on your side she also earlier and not having been mentioned yet was like hey I looked at like the ballistics

[01:25:32] of that yeah what you're talking about where they're putting everyone on the ground it makes no sense he's like the shot came from that direction this doesn't really work and he's like oh that's

[01:25:40] that's interesting yeah yeah yeah he's like I guess I miss remembered um there's only two more scenes yeah that we need to talk about I'm just trying to you know yeah yeah one is the thing

[01:25:50] where Pacino finally is like you know what needs to talk to Maratirani and like just lay out my uh my immoral action as a police officer you know like the thing I'm in trouble for because at this

[01:26:02] point she's been good but you're like why cast Maratirani in this role sure there's that opening scene at the hotel when she kind of makes a nice impression then there's the next day back when

[01:26:10] she kind of says that it's weird he was standing here 24 hours ago she was like he liked you yeah I hope I was nice to him right and then this he's freaking out and taping seat cushions

[01:26:22] right right and she comes in and she's very much the trailer I remember this yes being in the trailer quite a bit yes uh so and he talks to her about right like I framed a guy I knew was guilty

[01:26:31] yeah I got a complaint about too much noise and he's like Los Angeles 1999 nobody says it's too light in here and she goes it's really dark right and she turns on the light that's a nice

[01:26:42] little trick love it yeah and suddenly you're like ah right um he's looking at me yeah he remembers but he gives the speech that's that's the opening credit sequence those close-up macro shots of the blood on which we've been seeing the whole time that shot of the blood

[01:26:57] spreading on the on the cuff extreme insert shots were very popular at this point in time yeah like that yeah that's another seven technique I feel like seven does seven pretty much invented that

[01:27:08] but he went for a dream yeah perfected the art form but he does it a lot in memento that thing where he's having the memories of her his wife's attack is you know presented as those little

[01:27:17] flashes at first there's a moment I love in this when he's on the phone with haps wife do you like my representation it's great for the listener David is flashing his fingers I dare say that the

[01:27:29] rise in those flash blips came from switching editing from editing flat on a steamback editing and like people were like we can just put in a three frame shot easier to just copy paste

[01:27:40] a thing like oh wow really three frames we should do that all the time yeah exactly there's that moment when he's on the phone with haps wife and she said like did he suffer and there's the quick

[01:27:48] three second flash of hap in his arms like crying with the blood oh and by the way I wrote down the scar on his face looks exactly like the joker's scar when half is lying there in the ground

[01:27:58] it's only on one side I don't know if that's where he's meant to have been shot or he scratched his face while running but it is a scar from his mouth almost all the way to his ear

[01:28:05] so maybe we do know how you got those scars Richard T Joker this is a call back to our following episode Alex all right call back I'm just referencing a character that's in one of

[01:28:16] these movies Richard T Joker so and then there is the final chase I guess not even chase no it was there's a bit of a chase the confession the Pacino confession to murder tyranny well

[01:28:27] right no yeah oh yeah we weren't done with that he this man he framed a guy who was fucking and then murdered a small child yeah it's like a horrible story he hung the

[01:28:37] child and no hung you know the hanging didn't even work and he died of shock he knew the guy was guilty but the case didn't they didn't find the piece of evidence they needed he tampered with the

[01:28:45] evidence he put that lady Macbeth sort of stain on his cuff that he can't get out that references scotland pa that's what it was it was this isn't the scotland yeah yeah um but more tyranny

[01:28:58] kind of says like well I'm no one to judge the line about Alaska you know I clearly ran away and that's the thing right like he's in purgatory but it's like I get it look it's retroactively retroactively it's like oh that's what they were talking about earlier

[01:29:10] like yeah had he testified this guy who's definitely guilty would have been set free right she knows been living with that I guess that sort of pays off the conversation when they first arrived yeah because in the way he says that the name of whoever this guy is

[01:29:21] he's like what about that guy yeah and Donovan's like no he won't get out don't worry about it and Pichino like knows that he will well it gets into a little bit of overlap I think the

[01:29:30] idea is that Donovan doesn't know that Pichino did this but Pichino just knows if they dig they'll figure it out for me it's like uh it's much like a David Dopkin's the judge

[01:29:41] and that oh yeah great great you know the titular judge's big concern is that a people know that he's seen now that all his cases will be reviewed yeah she no cares a lot about

[01:29:49] legacy because he doesn't seem to have a home life his thing is that he's a great cop and that people look up to him he knows that this case is the one that's going to crumble but the big

[01:29:57] fear and this is the thing that William says to him is like if they know you shot your partner all your guys are going to be let out yeah no for sure and also much like the judge fears that he

[01:30:05] will poop his pants in a bathtub correct it's true I mean look who has two thumbs and poops himself in a bathtub I'm pointing to Robert DeVall right now um the final set piece is

[01:30:18] Hillary Swank going to Robin Williams' cabin correct now why does he want her is it just because he notices that but he notices that she's seeing the dress is that why he hits her

[01:30:30] correct is that that's what he like calls her and invites her yeah he's gonna give her the letters that a murder victim sent him right right right on rainbow station yeah they're on like Lisa Frank

[01:30:41] stationary yeah uh but then she sees the girl's dress which he's capped because he's a creep of soid did I misread this the implication that he wrote the letters to kind of help up his case

[01:30:52] because I don't know I didn't put that together it seems like there's something off about the letters yeah right with the letters are like I just hate my boyfriend so much he has a gun like

[01:30:59] there's that moment in the interrogation where he brings up the letters that say all these incriminating sort of things towards the boyfriend right and she goes like do you have those letters

[01:31:07] or Pachino goes do you have those letters and he kind of like stares him down goes yes I do right which feels like okay here's this hack writer he's gonna buy some Lisa Frank stationary and

[01:31:17] you know practice is cursive or whatever right then this final part is like 90 silence of the lamp's feeling it is very solid but it's also kind of not in doubt like you know yes what's

[01:31:31] going to happen which is they're going to shoot each other which is but also he's getting she knows driving and he's like falling like this is the like he's so tired he swerves off the

[01:31:38] road he's beaten Williams is because there's been a scene before where he says to Robin Williams like I'm gonna just confess like fuck all of this so they shoot each other Robin Williams his death is is phenomenal the tip into the water and then the like

[01:31:53] first there's that kind of badass moment where like you know Swank doesn't have her gun anymore but she no checks he's like I got seven rounds make him count yeah and he realizes the floorboards are really unstable goes down and so he kicks through and he

[01:32:06] treks through the water to sneak attack Robin Williams they shoot each other at the same time Robin Williams is like stunned because oh he has that moment where he goes wildcard like it's some fucking screenwriting you know I got the hidden gun I'm gonna get the upper

[01:32:23] hand on you and right when he's saying wildcard Pacino shoots him I mean the isn't the idea basically like on a good day Pacino would have this guy signed sealed and delivered no

[01:32:34] he's just tired so he's like 40% and that's why Robin Williams can get a couple over on and also this guy's making him doubt himself yeah it's a movie about right he feels and also he killed

[01:32:45] right there's a crisis of confidence he killed Hap so he's right he's he has a moral crisis as well as a as tiredness and what he's saying to more tyranny in that scene about the the tampered

[01:32:56] evidence is like I just had a feeling someday was going to catch up with me this movie would be hacky and bad with a different yeah director there's no question yeah I well one thing I wrote

[01:33:06] down I just wrote down apropos of nothing right I just wrote down bone collector from this like this era of like yes sir serial killer dramas that were like 30 to 50 million dollar the seven

[01:33:18] ripoffs basically yeah like this is almost 10 years after coming up on a decade of seven right younger female protege yeah we like kiss the girls or along came a spider as well those

[01:33:28] taking lives there's just like a huge amount of taking lives I really have bone collector and taking lives I just wrote down apropos with no commentary but um there's just like a lot this

[01:33:37] kind of movie was very easy and everyone in the marketing said the best thriller of its kind since seven or silence of the lamps right yeah and then within five years and this is just

[01:33:48] migrated to television it's true I mean that's the thing that's and that's where it will stay for a while and yeah with anyone other than him this could have been you know another along

[01:33:57] along came a spider because I don't think the screenplay is fantastic like I don't think it's terrible or anything but it's not like the dialogue like really crackles like it's like

[01:34:06] it's all fine although I mean and who knows how much of this was in the script or how much of this was added by Nolan and the uncredited rewrite but um the the original has a lot

[01:34:19] less of these sort of character connections yeah these sort of thematic concerns there isn't the investigation in the original insomnia there's not the same sense of a past history catching up with

[01:34:30] him it really is just the fact that he killed his partner by accident sure and the relationship is different that guy's older he's not as disgraced the Hilary Swank character isn't someone who idolizes him she's just a cop working a case and this movie really kind of

[01:34:45] tightens everything and makes everything really kind of on yeah I like at the end where she's sort of put together this thing about his extra gun yeah she gives him a hug to see if he always

[01:34:55] he still has it right feels the gun yes that's right and she sort of knows that he did it and then right when he's dying that's already happened when they go to Williams's house right when he's

[01:35:02] dying she's saying like look I get it like you didn't mean to do it right she's she has put it all together and he's like just let it I'm gonna throw it away no he's like don't don't do

[01:35:12] bad idea don't lose your way that's really doesn't say tired baby tired that's what he says in Carly this way he says let me sleep I think right yeah but it also like it just where you just feel

[01:35:22] you're like yeah Jesus go to sleep man it's good it's also a great end of story end of movie yeah movie yep just directed by chris I was so nervous at when that scene faded out that it

[01:35:31] was going to be like her and nicky cat right you know like oh whatever happened with that and it's just it's like a great thing that just ends and then it ends and in the original

[01:35:39] he doesn't die uh oh really the hillary swank character kind of calls his bluff and lets him get away with it and he drives away interesting and I like this ending better especially with the whole

[01:35:51] movie where he's like trying to fucking go to sleep it's like Bridget Spies yeah I'm asleep yeah you promise one thing the whole time all right let's check off snap let's play the box office game

[01:36:01] Ben Ben is something you want to say it's a good wet death the wet movie wet movie it is it's very wet and I like wet movies but I would say this is like up there is a wet death rum Williams get shot

[01:36:15] and then takes a bath takes a little swim I think that death is really effective where he's got he holds on it for a really long time that's like a very like he goes under and then he floats

[01:36:25] up a little bit uh it's got all the things I like Benny good boy now play the box office before you do can I just read a few oh please I love it I love this game and I'm excited

[01:36:38] it's a good week other notes that are noted one is that um this movie I think is a great case for helicopter shots being far superior to drone shots yeah oh yeah the endless amount of shots of

[01:36:49] the aerial views of this place are really beautiful and obviously drone shots would just look cheap and flimsy in a way this movie doesn't and big thing Nolan and fister like really committed to on

[01:37:00] this movie they don't do second unit on anything so really any sort of establishing shots they shot that themselves and you can tell that there's like meaning behind those helicopter shots like they're not just like getting overhead yeah they're really nice and I like a small point

[01:37:14] too as I mentioned earlier I like that this kind of parallel to Jackie brown is like you have this thing that's a breakout in one way or another and then you do the only

[01:37:23] I mean obviously Batman's pre-existing but those are original stories like then you do the like remake or adaptation of a crime yeah it's interesting it's an interesting thing as opposed to the

[01:37:33] fountain where you're like it's all me right the other brain on the page the other version of that is like after pulp fiction is like four and a half hour long samurai movie exactly it's

[01:37:41] that it's like would be him doing kill bill right away instead it's like from the writer of get shorty comes my next movie it's also like a very kind of a tourist thing to do

[01:37:50] where you like okay start out with your fully original like thing yeah smaller thing right and then you're like let me take someone else's material let me flex my muscles let me show you

[01:37:58] how much my style is like built into my veins and work with some legends like let me get in some big actors like it's not going to be their greatest performances ever but it's going to be a

[01:38:07] memorable little like it's like a solid decision that doesn't exist anymore because movies like this right like now after memento he would get the job directing a pilot of whatever this

[01:38:16] version is now yeah right he would do that he'd knock that out and then he go make batman or whatever but back in 97 except it wouldn't be batman now it would be like you know the atom

[01:38:24] or whatever because they'd be like digging through like what do we got you know like he'd be making the lobo movie exactly uh in 97 you could go throw me an elmore Leonard right

[01:38:33] they'd throw you a paperback i like the trajectory of this in the career the other thing nice if everyone could do an elmore Leonard everyone should do one elmore there's an elmore Leonard series in anthology a couple years ago and there's some dreadful movies

[01:38:45] in it that's sure so i think that ran it's i think that ran it's course yeah circa be cool yeah or be but uh the big bounce and be cool really killed oh yeah yeah but the other real i mean

[01:38:55] we haven't talked about hillary swank but like what a strange crazy trajectory like she's like 32 in this movie and no no she's not even when she wins her second oscar she's 28 in this movie and

[01:39:06] has an oscar because she wins boys don't cry 25 that's right she's 28 she's 17 so by the time she's like 32 she has two oscars this movie is like a great sort of like step away from that where

[01:39:18] it's like in a supporting cast you have to work with pachino and then like a year later two years later a million dollar baby uh just yeah anyway so the only thing i did look up last night i was like

[01:39:28] what does the deal with hillary swank's complete career yeah because this movie raises a lot of questions because she's so interesting and good all the time yeah she is and then like just

[01:39:37] has not done a lot they didn't know how to use her in between the two oscars i mean it was this weird like there's a fairer than necklace where it was like fairer than necklace which is them

[01:39:45] trying to cast her is more of a traditional romantic lead in like a costume drama that flops bad movie she's in the gift but that's a very small role it's a small role movie i think

[01:39:54] yeah i like the gift the gifts a good movie uh and then after this she does the core which is i guess like hey well let's put you in a big blockbuster right that's a terrible movie i mean

[01:40:01] that's that doesn't have no favors uh and then after that million dollar baby so she wins but i really think that win but is like so bad but she's like 32 or 30 not even 33 now right she's like

[01:40:13] she's 32 when yeah she is right yeah uh because she's now in her 40s but she got stuff in like another land because she's a very good actress but she's like not a movie star like there's not

[01:40:24] like when they tried to put her in blockbusters or romantic comedies there wasn't like a personality there that kind of translated across it yeah she's a femme fatale in the black dolly which doesn't fit

[01:40:34] she's like not on the teacher she's not really she's an inspirational teacher and freedom writers which was sort of like not a bad idea but i think the moment had passed for these kinds of movies

[01:40:44] and it's a bad movie i mean she gets a lot of bad scripts i mean she's in amelia which is this just i have either of you seen mirror night years i mean it's

[01:40:52] it's a horrendous movie i remember everyone being like oh here comes our third Oscar it's nobody's i don't know who's fault that movie was it's a horribly written movie probably but

[01:41:02] but i guess that's the kind of role that you would expect like an actor of her stature to be angling for that movie after that there's like there's nothing really i mean she did no conviction

[01:41:13] and then she's like nothing she's in new year's eve and she's in the homesman which she's excellent in and is an excellent little movie the time ealy jones movie but obviously that goes

[01:41:22] nowhere now this year she's in logon lucky i don't know how big her role is but i'm excited she looks really good in that and then next year she's got a tv show coming i was gonna say i mean

[01:41:30] she seems like the person who's primed to have a tv show it's weird to have someone who has two oscars and is 40 be the be perfect for a tv show i know it's very bizarre but also like

[01:41:39] those kinds like all of her kinds of movies are what don't get made like the kinds of movies that elevate someone who's like very classically pretty in a way and also like very classically tough in like a womanly way like whatever that character needs doesn't

[01:41:52] like she would just be on like true detective now she's she's very contradictory in the person she's kind of closest to is like jody foster but jody foster fit into a more typical movie

[01:42:04] star mode because she found her sort of footing in genre work and stuff like that and it felt like she had a lot more kind of creative like say in her stuff i know i know i know okay all

[01:42:15] right sorry i couldn't let the box i couldn't let the hillary swine confusion go without being she's great in this one i think it's the best of her she's good when he's performing it's just it is an example of the kind of slightly

[01:42:26] undercooked roles they handed her sometimes but she's very good in the movie but i want to play the box let's do it as we noted this film came out memorial day weekend right 2002 may 24th yeah

[01:42:38] so it was a four-day weekend and it opened number three to 26 million on a 46 million dollar budget it makes 67 domestic 113 worldwide which would be like a hundred million today it would be i don't know about that let's see let's see you're usually good at i think 67 15

[01:42:56] years ago it'd be like 102 million dollars there we go so good at that it's weird i spent a lot of time on this website what was the number one movie at the box office memorial day week in 2002

[01:43:05] it has been out it's in its second week it would be star wars episode two attack the clones right yeah which is dropped only 25 percent still the lowest grossing of all the star wars movies but

[01:43:15] it's now made 201 million dollars okay number two is spider man see in terms of my love of box office game i was disappointed when i saw when this movie came out because i knew that those

[01:43:26] two movies were just still just running the spider man had changed the game you know we were all hyped for star wars and then spider man had come two weeks before it and had that

[01:43:34] 114 million dollar opening weekend as one was like shit this was also the end of my senior year of high school and one of the happiest times of my life that's great i mean i was 16 i saw it

[01:43:44] in theaters did you see it in theaters uh insomnia yeah i think i did i think i started a couple years later on dvd but this was also one of the happiest times of my life i would say i was so

[01:43:54] glad to hear it life was so good it felt really good in 2002 i was about to graduate got out of my we got shadow of 9 11 got to skip scan 9 11 was in the past we were moving forward as

[01:44:03] country president they're finally releasing collateral damage and the remake of big trouble for the second big trouble reference today we're hearing up for war in iraq yeah great time great time i know uh and then insomnia is number three uh number four okay you got any idea it's

[01:44:20] another new movie the rest of the movies are new movies oh interesting three new releases okay number four is it live action i animated animated from 2002 correct uh spirit stallion the samaritan

[01:44:34] simmering i believe okay i've never not a yeah the horse movie with matt daemon a stallion the samaritan of the spirit uh exactly simmering spirit of the stallion cool the joke is you can rearrange

[01:44:47] it in any order i believe we've done that joke on this podcast before uh kelly asbury joint oh yes the great kelly asbury number five okay is uh is like an r-rated tough hard hitting drama but

[01:45:01] it's also a revenge movie it's it's a terrible movie uh that i saw in theaters anyone i what's what's like a revenge movie yeah mm-hmm is it is it led by a star is it like a star star

[01:45:17] and its title is like the end of the tagline oh enough enough interesting enough the jaylo joint enough uh is that a michael apted yes michael apted which made 40 million domestic it was kind of the

[01:45:32] tail end of jaylo i think as a star of like uh because she made like a few dramas in a row because the cell yes is before then made manhattan comes out later that year and is huge and then everyone's

[01:45:43] drama wait we maybe we undervalued her and then and then gily is the next year but no yeah because it had been the cell angel eyes and enough come out and they're all flops what's the rest of uh

[01:45:54] what else is out there we got about a boy uh which is a movie i thought was very overrated living in britain but was like one of those british hits sure that britain was very proud that had done

[01:46:05] so well it gets oscar nominations and stuff what do you guys think about a boy we watched a couple years ago i thought it was pretty good i like it i held out pretty well for me fine all the performances

[01:46:14] in a really tonic callets amazing and i haven't yeah she's she's usually good when's tonic left bad never uh unfaithful uh these kinds of movies that don't you know like that's a sex thriller

[01:46:25] like summer movies and there's summer movie it's cool crazy like adult dramas in the top ten and it's also crazy to think that diane lane gets an oscar nomination alpha faithful

[01:46:36] which had come out in f***ing april or whatever like that's uh pretty crazy and i wanted to say robin williams should have gotten an oscar nomination and like i think that one hour photo

[01:46:47] kind of diluted it yeah uh the new guy it's a dj qualms company do not remember it one of those dj qualms vehicles a zero will rise that was the tagline yes do you remember this movie yeah

[01:46:59] ever so vaguely i guess it just as a sort of by product of the qualms dynasty because road trip is 2000 is right then they made white qualm yeah white qualm uh equal to white qualm of the wild um you don't really need to qualify dj qualms you don't

[01:47:15] need to qualify it well well done unqualified changing lanes that's another in the summer a roger michelle picture it's a that's a good movie that's a good move when i was in my u i took

[01:47:28] a producing class from the guy who was either like the line producer of the production coordinator of that movie uh and every week the class was just him telling stories about changing lanes and

[01:47:37] how the movie got made and how budgets on movies like that happen and good new york move it made 66 mil you know solid no one remembers that movie exists i saw with my mom i saw in

[01:47:48] theaters we had a nice time number 10 the scorpion king okay yeah so back in the news back in the yeah exactly very topical would have been great if the mummy had ended the new mummy had ended

[01:47:59] with the scorpion king being back that was the actual reveal um my big fact requesting is is just starting its run okay it's it's in number 11 it's been out for six weeks it's only made

[01:48:11] seven million dollars so it'll probably end up on 10 or 12 yeah so it's it's sort of spinning up its wheels yeah uh the rookie which was another like word of mouth hit from that year

[01:48:21] e2 mama 10 bn is still hanging around this is like grown up movie monsters ink is in its 30th week at the box of movies good smart movies for grown ups like monster's murder by numbers which is another

[01:48:32] another i say that uh no use it taking lives but murder by numbers is totally another one of those that's barbish rotor that's what barbish rotor right and michael pit yeah isn't it right

[01:48:40] right another one because gosselin bullock dated for a while off of that movie weird uh uh yeah uh some other new movies 13 conversations about one thing roman coppola cq that was roman coppola yeah yeah that was yeah uh yeah that's the box office passing passing different time

[01:49:02] different time all right uh what's in tanya it's a movie i love uh and it's like an interesting you know kind of like sliding doors like imagine if you just kept making movies like this for the

[01:49:14] rest of his career i mean that's like the fun thing with directors where it's just like imagine if this is what like he yeah at this point he could have made more he could have just been

[01:49:21] like a fincher who's just like great career i do like these genre movies i elevate them i have fun i love i must i only do r-rated movies i love like technical craft of filmmaking and i just kind

[01:49:31] of like look at whatever scripts i can and i do my own but like yeah that's about partnerships with actors yeah and that just went away for no land and then he became you know an empire

[01:49:40] unto himself does he seem like a happy man when you met him seems happy he seems like satisfied i mean he's someone who has a artist in a film professional can like literally change the

[01:49:49] way the world in front of him is by snapping his fingers which is the yeah which i think would like like how many other filmmakers get like a blank check for the way their movies are

[01:49:57] distributed yeah yeah it's awesome like it's just him and tarrantino and paul thomas arison that are like i think my movie should come out this way and everyone's like okay yeah well you

[01:50:07] say so i mean everyone will everyone will be into that if you think we should release it a few days early so that people who live near a 35 millimeter projector can see your movie that sounds like a

[01:50:14] great idea right his movies make so much fucking money like tarrantino is like hit and miss paul thomas arison's always been like his niche audience but like no one has the same level

[01:50:23] he's gonna make money i do yes i think so too i think people are ready for a war movie if it's good it's going to be huge yeah and even if it's only okay it'll still do way yeah because

[01:50:32] the fact that interstellar made the amount that it did is pretty nuts when you watch interstellar right but dunkirk is a cool movie to be releasing in july like that's what you're talking about it's

[01:50:40] like it's like saving for ryan which came out in july last time that there's been something like i feel like you could easily make about that much money yeah if it's good i think it will yeah

[01:50:50] we will see we'll know by the time we get to dunkirk i think yeah um alex thank you for being thank you guys so much it's such an honor will you come back i have nothing to make me

[01:50:59] good guess right great guess hell the guest so exciting step through the looking glass here but oh also i didn't make any of my 30 days of night references that i wanted to make as a prequel

[01:51:08] as a prequel or sequel to this movie i get it i get it right oh glad i remember that griffin's really bummed i would i had a bunch of them locked and loaded

[01:51:20] because we'll do it now like one of those youtube videos of like where the fireworks all go off at the same time by mistake but also do the minute just slowly fades out yeah right

[01:51:29] could be your end finally they do in the original there's like he's like is it light here all the time to his partner stonestars grid says like is it day here all the time they go no in the winters

[01:51:38] it's night all the time and then i was like oh wait a second hey wait a second david slayed yeah um well thank you so much for being on here people should watch all of your movies i'm excited

[01:51:49] to see golden exits when i'm very excited to see golden exits when can i see it uh tbd yeah i mean you live in new york it's playing a bam next week well really well like the cinema fest right

[01:51:59] this will have okay you know that won't help anyone listen probably will have aired right after this will come out a week after that happens yeah that's it well it was fun it was a fun screening

[01:52:07] good crowd great crowd hometown yeah rooting for you um yeah your movies are pretty available on the online streaming platforms all yeah all on this you have a great filmography itunes and amazon i suppose uh someday someday there'll be people doing a podcast mini series on the

[01:52:24] films of alex ross we should all be so lucky alex we should all be so lucky as to live in a world where filmmakers and my generation will ever get these opportunities yeah that's that's the question

[01:52:35] al pod ross pair cast i don't know i'll be named in the mini series our children will host it david yeah that's right david and griffin junior and ben's dog will produce or go just be future on

[01:52:48] the heads yeah yeah we'll be hits in a jar all right let's wrap it okay griff uh thank you all for listening please remember to rate your views subscribe check out reddit dot blinkies dot com

[01:53:00] for some real nerdy shit that people are doing on a weekly basis um big thanks to and for good oh for our social media uh of course pat reynolds and jo bowen for artwork may mark every for the

[01:53:13] theme song uh and as always oh god these uh vampires here good uh just sell uh what it's a night here all the time uh gotta fight these uh vampire