[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check I'll play you. For what? Your podcast. Hey David! Yeah. All's fair and loving podcasting.
[00:00:33] That's right, that's right. This is the start of a new miniseries. Very often we mimic the sound of a baseball game when we're doing that. Oh sure, right. Crack! Crack of the bat. Yeah. Hit the stands. Roar of the crowd.
[00:00:51] Well the crowd might be roaring but this time the ball you're hearing is doing a little bit of this. Trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble. Yeah that's what it sounds like. Tr-chub, tr-chub, tr-chub, tr-chub, tr-chub, tr-chub. The sneakers are squeakin' on the court. Squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak!
[00:01:07] Ladies and gentlemen. Now slam dunk. Come on and just slam and welcome to the podcast. Oh boy yes. I'm joking of course because I am not much of a sport though. I'm Griffin Newman but I have a co-host and my David Sims big, big basketball fan. Love basketball.
[00:01:34] Not love and basketball. Well I was going to say and I basketball love. Yes sure. Right. That's what makes us a good team and this is a podcast called Blank Check. It's about filmography. It's directors who have massive success early on in their careers
[00:01:48] and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion and projects they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they dribble, dribble, dribble baby. Yeah they bounce back and forth. But like a ball. Between the hand and the court. Yep sorry.
[00:02:04] Yes between the hand and the court. What is a career in the entertainment industry if not the dance between a hand and a court? Okay. You just keep bouncing. That's what you're saying. Right, right, right. This is a new May series on the films Gina Prince, Bythewood.
[00:02:21] We're starting out with your debut film Love and Basketball. Now I'm not a basketball head. David, you are. Yeah. You call yourselves basketball heads right? Yeah. That's the term. Of course everyone calls themselves that. Producer Bent. Yeah. Basketball, yeah or nay.
[00:02:42] I used to watch as a kid when Jordan played. So you were a cash fan. I was, I'm like a basic basketball fan basically. And then when he retired I kind of fell off. I think then Iverson was kind of my guy there for a minute.
[00:02:57] I collected basketball cards, but yeah, it was just sort of more of a thing I was into as a kid. Were you, were you a Nets fan? You're a Jersey boy. I was. They were terrible. They would go to the game. It was like seven dollars.
[00:03:11] You could just show up. Yeah. It was like when we went to go see Turok the first flight and they gave us and they just paid us money. Yes. Introduce our guest, but also what's the title of this mini series?
[00:03:25] You said we were starting a new mini series. I was talking around for it. The name of this mini series is pod and basket cast. That's right. Wow. Rolls off the tongue the way it dribbles off the table. It dribbles off the time. He really landed that three.
[00:03:40] I landed that three. Our guest today knows about basketball knows about comedy knows about podcasting. That's what I call a hat trick. Does that apply in basketball or only hockey? No, just hockey, hockey or soccer. Ladies and gentlemen from the flagrant ones writer from Brooklyn 99 you
[00:04:03] seen him on the good place. And of course most importantly chief on comedy bang bang ladies and gentlemen Carl Tarr. Hell yeah. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. You know, comedy people know me as Carl Tarr chief all those credits
[00:04:18] but basketball people know me as seven foot four center out of the University of Virginia 1984 Ralph Samson. Of course. Wow. Yeah, 83 excuse me. I forgot the year I got drafted but that I want to appreciate y'all and
[00:04:33] I want to say thank you for bringing me on to talk about such a great film a film that I celebrate. I just realized that I'm wearing a USC shirt. Oh yes. I pulled this shirt out of the hamper this morning to jump on a zoom
[00:04:48] meeting because that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing these miles and some went to Virginia. I believe he did. Yeah, University of Virginia 1983. Yes, of course. I know this. Yeah, but of course Q Quincy McCall is in a USC alum as is Monica
[00:05:05] Wright so it was very appropriate. Yeah. Yeah. I this this movie. I can't wait to get into it with y'all now you you grew up in the south and then in California. Yeah, I moved to Los Angeles when I was nine years old and I moved
[00:05:23] right into the area of USC South. So yeah coming of age at the same age as as these characters. Yes. Yes, my mother lives in the in the area that Quincy and Monica lived in Lidera Heights is where my mother currently lives right now.
[00:05:39] I don't know who this would apply to but if any listener of blank check does not already listen to do boys your Roscoe chicken and waffles episode great episode made me cry when you relay the story of going there for the first time. Oh, I love long stories.
[00:05:58] I love people taken a lot of runway to get to a big finish and that was one of those stories where it went on so long that I was enthralled but I couldn't remember how we got there
[00:06:09] and then when it came back around to and that's why I chose this restaurant for this episode. I think I shed like a tear just in sort of like appreciation more than anything. Wow. Of the journey we had made Lidera Heights is near Westchester
[00:06:23] right because I have family who lives in Westchester and anytime I mentioned that to anyone who's not from like LA they're like there's no Westchester in LA there is a Westchester and we've all been to it is what airport is considered.
[00:06:35] They live like right under the airport and their house has like special windows that block out the sound of the yeah, yeah, it's a Lidera Heights is not far from there. So there's a Windsor Hills Lidera Heights and then you got Englewood to the south right there.
[00:06:49] Westchester is right to the west of that and above that is Culver City. Well, I'm sitting right now but like an Englewood is like that's where the whole new Clippers thing is going to be right like where they're building this brand new basketball arena
[00:07:03] you know, Englewood the city of champions. You got the forum there. You got the new Ram Stadium so five stadium that is so five stadium apparently according to the NFL is going to have some fans maybe not in LA but they are going to play
[00:07:16] in front of people. Did y'all hear that? Yeah. Oh yeah. Of course. And it seems like a conspiracy theory to me at this point I find that highly suspicious in certain states they were like fans are welcome to come and watch Giron your Miami Dolphins.
[00:07:32] Watch them go 0 and 18. I was texting David about this the other day but as someone who does not watch televised sports at all, I think I am probably going to watch the first batch of games happening in like the Disney dome or whatever it's called. The NBA bubblegames.
[00:07:52] I am just I am so excited to see what those look like and more importantly sound. How they stage it how they write how much they let us here. I think it's going to look like summer league which I always
[00:08:05] am very excited for and I watch like the first five to ten minutes of a game because okay I'm bored. Yeah, I'm always so pumped for summer league because I want to see Zion right you know you want to see like some new
[00:08:16] player who's going to come in you watch him for five minutes you realize that everyone else is like players the Knicks like wavered two years ago and you're like oh right. Yeah, it's not the game that's necessarily boring as the so
[00:08:29] like those games are usually the big premiere games usually at Thomas or low yeah. Yeah, the Vegas games are kind of fun to watch because they feel kind of real but the ones that are just in a gym or Orlando games or the Orlando summer league pretty rough.
[00:08:42] I don't want to see the Pacers play against the magic in Orlando. Well, that's what we're going to see except it's going to be like the NBA finals. Super weird. That's what interests me is like it's going to look and
[00:08:56] sound like that but it's going to have the stakes of a finals game like psychologically how is everyone on the court going to behave like the thing that was so fascinating to me was watching like I feel like the
[00:09:08] first six weeks of late night hosts trying to do their shows at home or remotely or whatever. Everyone's timing and rhythm was off and like all of those people have experience doing comedy in front of a live audience and but also doing it with no audience.
[00:09:24] But it was just like they were so tuned into how they did their shows where they sat in relation to the camera when they took their pauses that like the first couple weeks of like last week tonight John Oliver just like couldn't speak properly.
[00:09:38] Yeah, and I couldn't watch him properly. Right, right. And now it feels like everyone's like adjusted. I want to see the couple of weeks where it's like, oh, this isn't practice. This isn't summer games. These are like real games with real stakes but no one's in
[00:09:54] the audience and everyone can hear everything that's happening. Unfortunately, there's no time for that. There's no time to get your footing is so quick like they're going to be getting there going to be practicing for them. They start practicing like tomorrow or next week.
[00:10:07] Like yeah, it's really really soon. Yeah, so then in the first games on July 30th or whatever. But I will say what is what I think it's going to be like because it's something that's actually really fun and intimate to watch Griffin. And that's like overrun.
[00:10:21] It's going to be like pickup and these guys who are pros are extremely competitive and are extremely like into pickup games. So when I was a kid, we used to go play pickup at UCLA and we would have to go there before like the
[00:10:36] college older college guys, former college players current pros and like retired pros will come and watch. And I've seen some amazing pickup games in the men's gym at UCLA with like some crazy like players, like and their brothers who are also almost just as good as them.
[00:10:54] It's kind of like how people talk about the famous Space Jam practice gym right where like Jordan is shooting that movie. But then in the off hours he has to train and all these other players are there and they're just like going at each other.
[00:11:08] Yeah, that's what it's going to be like the famous the dream team game. Like this is all in the last dance. That's probably why it's all on my mind, but you know, like where it's like, yeah, they just like, you know,
[00:11:18] they divvied it up that like 12 best American players basically and they just went at each other. I think they should go shards versus scans. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yes, they should talk about this with the production of Space Jam. But like, you know, famously Jordan had the gym
[00:11:33] constructed and they would fly in top NBA players so that he could like, you know, stay sharp in between scenes and shooting days and whatever. Bugs had a similar thing where he made them construct a forest and they threw in different
[00:11:49] cartoon hunters and he would have to get the better of that. I've heard about that. No, I've heard about this. You see, I'm not joking. Carl's heard about this. I've heard about this and I heard there were like all types of carrots all around and
[00:12:05] they flew the forest in from Albuquerque. Absolutely. And like, see, I'm not joking. David they had different lady outfits for him. They had different gadgets, different tricks. Like it looks like a birthday cake, but the candle is a stick of dynamite yet to stay sharp.
[00:12:22] You have a lot of downtime on a film shoot. Carl, who's your team? Who's your NBA team? I am a proud and loyal supporter of the Los Angeles Clippers. Only that's awesome. You've gotten it's been a good year. No, it hasn't.
[00:12:39] I mean, no, it's been a weird horrible year. Hasn't been a good year. I'm a Knicks fan and the Knicks were not even invited to Orlando. Be a Brooklyn fan, man. Well, I live in Brooklyn. I've been a Knicks fan my whole life.
[00:12:56] The Knicks are what got me into sport in general like, you know, little kid on the couch watching those like Ewing Knicks teams. I've had a lot of diverse experiences as a sports fan, but the Knicks are horrible. They're owned by a terrible person.
[00:13:09] They behave in an embarrassing manner and they don't. They're not good and I live in Brooklyn and I only go to Nets games really because they're cheaper and that can walk to the arena. So at what point am I like? Should I just like admit to myself that
[00:13:23] I'm a Nets fan? You know you sound like a pretty reasonable person. So I'm going to ask you. Okay, so Laker fans are are can you can you cuss on this podcast? Oh, yeah, you can say whatever you want about Laker fans. Laker fans are shit bags to
[00:13:42] the fans. Yes. Yes, they're terrible to us. They're terrible. They always have some especially when we're good. So for the past 10 years, we've been the better team in Los Angeles that is not. I am a I've been a fan of this team since I was nine years old.
[00:13:56] I am not going to say that this is a Clipper town. It is not the numbers prove that they Clippers were better than the Lakers for years. And it didn't really seem to move the needle all that much. It did not move the needle except for the
[00:14:08] for the millions of people who migrate to this city every 10 years are now support them, but they also still support their home team. So it's like, you know, I'm from St. Paul. So I'm a Timberwolves fan. Clippers because I hate the Lakers.
[00:14:21] And you know, and so like I'm like I even have two teams, but I was a Clipper fan before my second team. I'm a Pelicans fan too. Okay, but I Clippers is my I'm like 70 75 25 when it comes to I got you 80 20 honestly, but they're so bad.
[00:14:39] Are the next fans that bad to Brooklyn fans? No, they just ignore them. They're just they just think that they're cute or whatever. That's what he used to be with us. That's what he used to be with us. They just didn't bother us and then we
[00:14:52] started getting good and then now they're good too. It's possible that the right if the Lakers are good, they got Katie, whatever. You know, if they have a sustain room, maybe the next fans get more aggro about it, but it is very difficult to pretend that
[00:15:05] there is any authority in being a next fan. That's what I was going to say. Terrible. My perspective is that every next fan I know has a Charlie Brown complex. Like I don't know what you could be arrogant about right. There's I've never had a prideful next
[00:15:21] fan because like the Laker fans can they are so many dynasties and eras and like, you know, they have to watch that team be good. Like the Knicks were basically less good when I was a little kid, a little baby hairless boy and they didn't win
[00:15:35] anything. That's the other way. Anything anyway, right? And even in the nineties, they were like the fifth best team in the NBA or whatever you know to be like that was about their ceiling. They haven't won since what 1973 seventy seventy. Seventy and seventy three. That's the
[00:15:51] you know, like Earl the Pearl and you know Walton Clyde and Bill Jackson. Yeah, I love going to the games though. Wait, what's going to next games? Yeah, I mean that's the thing. That's great. It's so great. Yeah, but it's usually great if you
[00:16:07] go to see the Knicks get thrashed by some other really good team that's like, oh, we're in the garden. This rules like let's totally humiliate the Knicks and put on a show like this will be great. I mean like I'm just sad. It's like I
[00:16:23] had to try and talk myself into loving Carmelo Anthony like I, you know, sort of got my hopes up about Pozingas and then that all went to shit. Like it's like this. It's just sad. It's a pathetic life that I lead, but like for the last 30 40 years,
[00:16:37] I feel like the Washington Generals have won more games at Mass and Square Garden than the Knicks. Wow. Wow. I had to Google that to make sure I had my reference. Correct. I did. So Carl pimpinng to love and basketball. Did you see this
[00:16:53] movie when it came out? Carl, like when did you first see because like this is a pretty pivotal basketball movie? Yeah, I saw it in theaters and it became one of those classics that just that black families just have on tape and on DVD.
[00:17:07] So it's one of those ones you just pop in when you just want to like when the cable is out or it's a rainy day. It's a rainy day movie for sure. It's a classic film. It is the best basketball movie. No. No. Basketball movie is. Yeah,
[00:17:27] I would say bad as I want to be the Dennis Robin story. It's a good thing. I mean that was a book first because that's the book where he is naked on a motorcycle and there's a basketball in between his legs. I remember the book cover very well.
[00:17:45] His penis is what's keeping the air basketball. Did you know that? It actually has a double function. Right. Yeah. David, you say that like that means something many of the greatest works in all of American cinema were books first. That's true. You're it's a good point.
[00:18:03] How about he got game? He got game is a great movie. He got game is all over the place. It is. Yeah, it's not the it's not the greatest basketball movie. The thing about he got game that's weird is that Ray Allen is pretty great in it
[00:18:17] pretty like an actor. Yeah, like which is doesn't make a lot of sense given that Ray Allen seems like a total weirdo and that he never acted again. Right. Gator performance before or since I'm going to have to disagree with y'all on
[00:18:31] that way. I was trash and he got game. Yeah, he couldn't act in that I enjoy Ray Allen's performance as Jesus. Shuddlesworth and he got game the best acting performance by basketball player has to be Shaq in blue chips. That's up there. Shaq in blue chips
[00:18:49] Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in airplane. I'm trying to think of great basketball player performances. People give LeBron train wreck, but I think Oh, I mean well hold on wait a second Blake Griffin on bra city was he was awesome. He was truly funny. Yes LeBron
[00:19:07] in train wreck he he was like very point. I feel like it was he it seemed like it came very naturally to him. That's like I'll say that likeable in it. Yeah, right. He's incredibly likeable Oh Rick Fox. Rick Fox always good and everything he does
[00:19:21] yes. Yes, Rick Fox is the type where you're like he's maybe a better guy playing a basketball player than he actually was a basketball player and he wasn't a bad basketball play. He was a fine basketball as Rick Fox is just so beautiful that you have
[00:19:35] to like you have to watch him in anything and everything he does. Yeah, he is very well. When you see a man like Rick Fox who's that talented is like hey man I'm sorry dude, but I'm gonna have to shoot you
[00:19:47] you're in a great job too. He's like a good smile and amazing job like when you look when you see Rick Fox coming and it's like amen if I'm walking with my girl and Rick Fox is down the street like we crossing the street
[00:20:01] well when you see him like on the bench with Kobe he look it looks like there's an actor who's pretending to be a basketball player. Yeah, you know like who's like doing a week or something. Yeah with the Lakers. No, sorry go ahead
[00:20:13] Griff. No, he's also just done so much acting now and has done it for a while that I don't even think about him having been a basketball player first that also speaks to my frame of reference. He's a huge contributor on championship teams is that's the wildest thing
[00:20:29] he's not he wasn't a slouch he like Rick Fox was a baller Kobe teams. Yeah, yeah and he is so gorgeous. He's very handsome. He's a pretty person, yes. I'm sorry man if he's coming I got to beat him with a
[00:20:43] baseball bat I got to he's got to go. I feel that like do you ever Carl like go to auditions and like usually but like you know if you're a comedy person you come from a comedy background you go to audition
[00:20:57] you see a lot of people you know from like the comedy scene and then there's one person there who's just like you've gotten to acting because they look perfect yeah you just you just get angry you know what it's it's all fair but you get angry at them
[00:21:11] here's how that goes at the black guy auditions so you got a room full of comedy guys and we all know each other yeah and you're catching up it's like very informal like right yeah it's not even it's not even the
[00:21:25] black thing is more of the comedy thing than it is the black thing but there is the kindred like we're all black comedians type situation and we're all up in there just joking shoot the shitcast coming out like little scrawny white guys
[00:21:37] with glasses and you make a character actor yeah with boyish bodies yeah because you guys keep it down I hear we're just trying to so anyway I was talking that bitch and I was like and then there's just this one guy who's just laughing at everybody's jokes
[00:21:51] me like haha man y'all crazy man it's like what the fuck are you doing here Gorgio and then I feel like increasingly that guy gets the part these days of course he does because he stole all of our jokes in the waiting room right he was just collecting
[00:22:07] I feel like I saw this movie fairly early because my brother was such a big basketball fan that anytime there was any sort of basketball movie because there weren't too many in the 90s and like early 2000s he would rent it it was like an immediate first week
[00:22:25] new release rental and I was excited that the TV was being used to watch a movie about basketball rather than a basketball game like if my brother was watching basketball on the main TV I had to figure out something else to do
[00:22:39] if he was watching a basketball movie I could get down with it I could lock in I would say the 90s basketball output is mostly movies that are kind of about like ego and stress you know you got like white man can't jump you got he got game
[00:22:55] you've got blue chip six man I was gonna say that that was his number one six man I probably have seen five or six times because he probably sought 15 times you have space jam but that's sort of its own thing you have above the rim
[00:23:09] right like they're they're kind of like they're not like this this is a very like emotional and like fleshed out characterization you know like the where is like a lot like blue chips I love but like that's like a movie about like sweat
[00:23:23] ego and corruption you're forgetting one other big one if you're talking about more emotional sort of fleshed out character based stories from the 90s you're forgetting about slam dunk Ernest sure okay I haven't seen slam dunk Ernest basketball film Vern they're having a huge
[00:23:39] auto sale down at Serito's obo square Fern that's my what's his name Ernest yeah Jim Varni yes yes there is no I was gonna say this movie like stood out to me watching it with my brother who would have been seven or eight at the time
[00:23:57] and I would have been like eleven or twelve probably that this was a very different basketball movie while also satisfying his desire because he would so often like if he heard a movie had any degree of basketball in it he would rent it so
[00:24:13] how a movie come out that is basketball based pretty much from beginning to end it never it never moves very far away from basketball and is good but was also kind of adult like post this there's I feel like there haven't been a lot
[00:24:29] of good basketball movies in years until very recently because there's like glory road and coach Carter like there's the sort of like inspirational kind of true story basketball movies yeah which are like okay those movies are all okay and they're kind of they're very coachy to they're
[00:24:45] all about the coach yeah but like has there been a good basketball I like like I like high flying bird like last you know but that's that's about like the business of basketball right like I like the way back but that was like a real throwback
[00:24:59] to just sort of like that was just a drunkard movie who's a good drunkard movie I didn't watch either of those sure I don't think there's been I feel like sports hasn't been like sports movies are tough man we we had great
[00:25:15] one Flagran wants to talk about drab day which is one of my favorite movies like I would love to see a really good sports movie but I don't feel like it would first of all they're always trying to make movies do well internationally and so basketball
[00:25:27] not gonna do well in a national no certainly not yeah back then maybe now you could sell up more but like I feel like in 2000 like this movie just didn't play internationally my dream is to have a movie about the 80s and basketball when you hear about
[00:25:45] the showtime Lakers which there is a TV show coming out about that on showtime and then you hear about like the traveling cocaine circus of the bulls of 84 like I want to know what those guys like just a bunch of six eight dudes party in
[00:26:01] in Lycra because it's the 80s right and like cocaine is just sort of like this fun new thing that everyone's trying yeah there is not yet the lesson that's been learned of like well actually maybe you want to like take it easy on that stuff
[00:26:15] yeah I like there has to be a way that that movie can be done really well without people being like in sports is this also that was the hero when like they were just like smoking cigarettes and like eating cheeseburgers and like on the bus and then
[00:26:29] they would play basketball yeah yeah like it was like a like Larry Bird like right there's that story where like there was that player they had to trade because he would just drink so much with Larry Bird that it would affect his performance
[00:26:41] yeah once they traded that player Larry Bird got better yeah they were just popping open chorus lights in a half time right can I read something insane to you guys no I was because we're having this carl I'm sorry Carl I'm sorry for you suggesting it
[00:26:55] we're having this conversation trying to like think of big sports movie so I just I said let me google the highest grossing sports films okay here is what Wikipedia lists in order as the top 10 highest grossing sports films of all time with a very very liberal definition of
[00:27:13] I was about to say I imagine this is okay go ahead number one highest grossing sports from of all time furious seven there's what what sports are in that motor racing yeah no there's no racing okay now let me speed around this because I
[00:27:29] bet you can guess what several of the other top okay okay number two the fate of the furious number three sport number three sport movie the hunger games catching fire number four fast furious six games are not a sport excuse me it says here very clearly sport is
[00:27:49] battle royale and your number five movie is the hunger games mocking j part one your number six games your number seven film your number seven film is neither part of the fast and furious franchise nor the hunger games franchise and they listed as representing two different
[00:28:07] sports do you have any guest david no I don't have any guest force gump American football in ping-pong oh I was going to say Invictus sure rugby number eight hunger games mocking j part two number nine fast five and the 10th highest grossing sports film of all
[00:28:26] time casino oh my gosh because gambling because of poker yes they listed as Carl they listed as gambling oh my gosh then you have the cars films gladiator elito battle ranger does it count wait these slumdog millionaire at number 16 the spade is game shows yes
[00:28:52] I would say it's not until number 22 is the blind side and number 23 is rocky for those are the first two that I would get a proper sports movies I remembered a basketball movie Carl did you see uncle drew that is a recent basketball movie yes uncle drew yes
[00:29:10] uncle drew was silly but it was at least a basketball it was fun I can understand why a lot of people wouldn't go see uncle drew but for the kids and for basketball fans like it was a fun it was a fun experience
[00:29:24] it was a perfectly fun as an autos of old age makeup like myself that was it had incredible amount unbelievable so much an embarrassment of riches and embarrassment of wrinkles there you go when did you see love in basketball David
[00:29:40] I saw it at a sleepover when I was a teenager probably you know around when it came out because it was a movie about love and basketball and so my entire sleepover cadre could agree upon it and I remember thinking it was pretty good
[00:29:58] and then like I don't know maybe catching it again in college and being like this thing's kind of like because like I feel like for a while like a lot of those teen romance movies that I saw like from that era from when
[00:30:09] I was a teenager they all just sort of went in one basket where I was like yeah they were all okay and I remember seeing this again and being like this is like an insanely thoughtful movie this is definitely like better than like
[00:30:21] save the last day like I'm trying to think of like movies I watched at sleepovers right tell me give me some more give me like teen dramas teen romantic drama a walk to remember sure sure yeah that's more like right with the tragic tinge I feel like after
[00:30:37] yes summer catch yes summer now wow that's a sports movie I have seen summer catch they play summer catch on the MLB network all the time really you think the network bought it for literally a hundred dollars can we have the rights you'll be watching like a
[00:30:57] really dope interview on like doping and then they're like coming up after this doping summer catch summer catch and then we're going to play it backwards right after you won't even notice so I had seen and then I think it had been
[00:31:15] years though when I watched this even though I remembered the ending and I remembered the general gist of it like it had been years since I'd seen this film in fall yeah I texted you a couple weeks ago I was watching it it was on some
[00:31:29] streaming platform and I was watching it and I texted you about how good it was and you were like fuck it is really good and then we both went like wait a second what if we just did Gina Prince by thought because we're because she has
[00:31:41] the new movie coming she has a new movie coming out she has like a big action movie coming out she has four films which she should have made more films by this point but it fit in well to our schedule and we just like
[00:31:53] committed to do it also Beyond the Lights we talk about as being one of our first date movies it's one of the first movies we saw together yeah but it was it was that thing of me watching it and texting you and going like this
[00:32:05] movie is pretty fucking perfect yeah and then us within like half an hour just going like let's just do it let's just do all her movies well I and I checked with a critic who had seen the old guard I was like
[00:32:17] well let me let me see what the word is on the old guard that was a movie she's got coming up Carl yeah which is going to be on Netflix in a couple weeks and he was like oh it's great
[00:32:27] and then I got a screener and I was like oh this thing rules and I don't know I haven't seen it and I am jealous well can I reveal something else Griffin yes yesterday I interviewed Gina Prince by what that's right I called her up on
[00:32:41] the telephone I call talk to her about the old guard tell her that we did this did you pull any scoops out of her no you know I did talk to her for quite a while you got to get her on the show I can ask
[00:32:53] David's always so fucking professional whenever I ask him to do stupid things in interviews he refuses to do them it's almost like I have a job to do I know and he like separates the two and he doesn't want like one area
[00:33:05] of his life to completely corrupt all other areas he's like a responsible well-balanced person but but I mean it was just it's just that especially in quarantine it's kind of been a little easier to just be like hey can I you know chat to this
[00:33:19] filmmaker on the phone because it's like they don't have to do a press tour where they're like flying all over the world and you know yeah doing junk it's where zillion people are like you know coming in the room one after the other so
[00:33:31] like you know I talked to Spike Lee I talked to John Stuart I like it's just a jot-jot apatow now Gina like these people who have cool movies coming out this summer now I want to say humble would be an instance of you humble bragging
[00:33:43] so I can't really say it now I see because you can only say it if it's doesn't apply at all if it's right okay um yeah she comes out of TV she has a long resume writing for TV yeah she Gina Prince by
[00:34:01] which she worked on a different world is she right on fresh print she did not read on fresh prints I don't believe she wrote on Felicity and was a producer on Felicity I want to get the whole list here
[00:34:13] because she worked on like five or six different shows before she got to make a movie well she when she was just Gina Prince she worked on a different world she meets her husband on the writing staff of that show you know her husband Reggie Rock Bythwood
[00:34:27] she did work on Felicity that's the only other big show she worked on South Central Sweet Justice she directs a TV show only ran for a season she directs a TV special called what about your friends which I'm trying to track down
[00:34:41] because it looks like it was released on DVD at some point but it seems hard to find which is I think that's about like girls in high school preparing for college it's like a sort of like TV movie trying to imagine
[00:34:53] what the rest of their life is going to be and she had made some shorts mm-hmm and then she writes this script for Love and Basketball but let's say very pointedly she was an athlete when she was younger she was primarily focused on basketball yes for most
[00:35:11] of her life growing up until she went to college and then got into film and then ended up becoming a filmmaker did she play at USC? I think she did no she went to UCLA where she went to film school and was a competitive
[00:35:25] track runner like you know she was she was into athletics but she will you know whatever she yes she took that film school track but she played basketball throughout high school sure I yeah where I'm sure I'm sure that's true
[00:35:41] I'm not I'm not I'm you a computer David you interview it I did I did interview her and I did talk to her about Love and Basketball at the end but I was mostly talking to her about this new action movie she made with Charlie's there
[00:35:53] on with you know all kinds of fucking cool action in it we love comic books yes he made my they tried to execute her but she's back she didn't have any directing credit except for school break special yeah and she brings this script to Mike DeLuca
[00:36:15] who works at New Lime and he said you can cast an unknown for the female lead but you have to cast Omar Epps well you're getting ahead of yourself I am not getting ahead of myself I promise you I just listen to a whole commentary track but please
[00:36:31] all right all right you then you go ahead because this is she does the Sundance lab before that that's right you're right of course I forgot about the Sundance lab right she she develops the script she's working on this script all working as a TV staff writer
[00:36:45] and then she takes the script submits it to the Sundance lab works on it there does a reading there that reading was Mackay Pfeiffer and Sana Leithin and I love Mackay Pfeiffer that it was not supposed to represent who was going to do the movie
[00:37:01] but a lot of big actors do Sundance readings it was supposed to be someone else who got sick like the day before and Gina and her husband were friends with Stan Leithin who is Sana Leithin's father who is like a legendary TV producer and director
[00:37:19] going back to the 70s and 80s and he I think recommended his daughter she flew in did it did a good job but Gina was so insistent on the most important thing in this movie is that the lead actress actually plays basketball believably so I want to hire
[00:37:39] a completely unknown woman I want to hire someone first as a basketball player and then teacher how to act which then new line said because Spike Lee his 40 acres in a mule representatives from his company were at the Sundance reading they said we would be interested in this
[00:37:55] Spike Lee sign on as a producer he produces they brought it to new line new line said we're fine with you hiring an unknown as long as you can get Omar apps they insisted on Omar he was the guy at that moment I'm trying to think of exactly
[00:38:07] where Omar apps was that they were so into Omar apps was this before after in too deep is it right after yes let's see he had done that other cop movie yeah it's right after in too deep he done the wood he had done the with the mod
[00:38:24] squad which was a bomb scream to he's in screen he had done an arc on er of course yeah you know right Jews hire learning yeah I guess he just been around I guess right he's just like a proven guy yeah majorly yeah
[00:38:40] the before I let go video by black street he had done that very important whatever our tour de force I'm gonna save you if you want to go watch a video that has an amazing arc that of course you won't be able
[00:38:52] to hear what they're talking about because you listen into the song but films of visual medium yeah Omar apps and sherry headley we left sherry headley yeah but Omar apps is that man he's the man good actor well I think I think he was in
[00:39:08] that position in the 90s as we said like he had a lot of big credits he wasn't necessarily like a huge huge like movie star but he was a leading man he had been in a lot of big films and for a movie like this
[00:39:22] that's gonna be produced at new line like kind of in between a studio filming independent film that's like a guy whose name above the title means something who also isn't gonna cost you like 20 million dollars so I think they were very singularly focused on him
[00:39:38] and that gave her permission to cast an unknown and son of leithin because she had done the reading loved the script so much and she was really adamant to try to get the role and it was one of those things were like the whole story the commentary is
[00:39:52] really fascinating because it's it's Gina and sauna recording like a year after I think the movies come out maybe a little while after the movies come out but they've also done disappearing acts which is the HBO movie she does right after this with mostly snakes my
[00:40:08] mom was in that really yeah we're gonna watch that can we look out for your mom who did she play it's the scene but I don't know I've never seen it I've never seen it okay I'll ask her and I'll text her yeah I'll ask her and I'll
[00:40:20] text her I can call her right now if you want me to send her a text she won't respond to text but I'll ask her after we get done today and maybe at the end of the episode we'll call your mom
[00:40:32] is that like a good way to end the episode no I will call her after you get done out and I'll text you what what the part that she plays yeah so they done those two movies together but their whole relationship and then
[00:40:48] they work together again on Shots Fire the Fox series that Bythewit did their whole relationship was like Jeanne and negging her over and over and over again because she didn't want her to do the reading at Sundance her father recommends it she calls up
[00:41:08] Son of Lathen who's doing a play at that point and says would you want to come do this reading and she goes yeah that sounds interesting to me let me see if I can get out of the play so she goes to the play and tells them
[00:41:20] like I got this big opportunity it's a movie I'm trying to transition out of theater into doing more on camera stuff I need to follow through on this so she quits the play calls back Gina and says like okay I got approval and she goes
[00:41:32] great can you come in tomorrow and audition for me right so she had already quit the play and was intense audition for the table read at Sundance does the audition does the read and then is told there's no way I'm going to hire you because I have
[00:41:48] to hire a basketball player right you can't dribble she she failed to dribble at the first audition I play right so then she said like is there any way I can convince you she said yeah if you want to train so she spent four months training with
[00:42:00] real players like real college players and a coach from the sparks yeah but still did not have the role she was doing all of that for four months so that she could then do like not a screen test but essentially a court test to show
[00:42:16] Gina that she could play well enough do you know the Gabrielle Union side of it no Gabrielle Union is in this movie as I'm sure you guys all know and she auditioned for the role of Monica and she played basketball as a teenager and was much more sporty
[00:42:34] and she arrives to the audition dressed in you know a basketball uniform like dressed in the clothes she plays basketball in and according to her Gina is like yeah you don't look like a baller to me wow and just dismiss her out of hand yeah and
[00:42:52] Union like protest and she's like no you're not going to work but I have a role you're perfect for and so I'm just going to quote this is Gabrielle Union from the LA Times did a big oral history of love and basketball
[00:43:02] she gives me the sides and I'm like ho because she was like you don't look like an athlete which I was my whole life but you do give me hoe vibes I was very offended but it was my first big break it was only the third
[00:43:14] movie I ever did so I was very grateful so Gabrielle Union walks in there she's like no I do know how to play basketball and Gina's like I see you in this role and Gabrielle Union is just kind of like all right but she did it
[00:43:30] their commentary where it's like you're listening to two hours of two friends who have worked together multiple times talking about their entire relationship and it sounds like a Gina Prince by foot is incredibly direct like does not mince words she talks about like it's like it's
[00:43:48] all about what's for the good of the movie I don't have any ego everyone else has to surrender their ego like she she kind of views filmmaking in a way that makes sense coming from a sports background because it's just like we have
[00:44:02] to win we have to work together as a team we have to win I'm not going to like waste time on pleasantries and things like that but they talk about how and it wasn't something she was doing consciously making son of Leithan go through all those
[00:44:18] tests worked as sort of character building because she started to develop the same sort of mindset that the character needs to have of just like I am so single mindedly focused on this being my path even though people aren't taking me seriously even though it seems
[00:44:34] like my prospects are limited she is very plausible as a basketball player in this movie like I would have assumed she like whatever as a teenager had played yeah it's like six months of work she said she came from a dance background her mother was a Broadway
[00:44:48] dancer and she had done gymnastics like she had done a lot of movement based things but had literally never picked up a basketball until she started training for it she looked great in it I haven't watched the movie in a while but I've seen it so
[00:45:04] many times that I like remember how she was playing and it looked like her shot was pure like the basketball playing in this movie looked better than a lot of movies that play about most basketball movies I would say
[00:45:18] blue chips is probably stands to be the best basketball player in the movie but this looks good and you could tell that they're not shooting around her like anytime there's a shot that's focused on a hand and you're like oh this is so they could use
[00:45:32] an athletic double then the camera tilts up and you see her face in the same shot yeah it's always her and she also looks jacked like her arms are ripped they talk about in the commentary that any of the scenes where she is shirtless they would have her
[00:45:48] leaning against a surface so that she could show off her abs more like she was so proud of the fact that she had gotten into that good shape that they always wanted to find positions to show off her muscles the best they could
[00:46:00] but it was like six months of work that A got her good enough to be able to fake it on camera and not really fake it to be able to actually play because in almost every scene everyone else she's playing against is a real basketball player
[00:46:14] is at least like a junior varsity player if not so they were you know playing on real courts with a large amount of extras and they would boo if the actors missed shots and they would cheer if the actors did well so she said like there was
[00:46:32] that sort of pressure on Omar apps and on a lathe until I actually perform well because the crowd would actually turn on them everyone else on the court actually knew how to play so they weren't doing any favors they weren't like grading anyone on a curve
[00:46:48] but it is I just think like there's a focus in her performance that aside from the fact that she learned how to play basketball well enough to do the movie also just translates to the character of just like she so badly wants to be there
[00:47:04] and that applies for the character in the actress at that point damn doll, shit is real deal shit is real shit it's an impressive performance and it's like this pretty much she does her she's such a serious actress and all the oral history stuff talks about
[00:47:20] how intense she was on set and that she and Omar apps were dating really they were like yes yes and so the Gabriel union talks about they were really not interested in talking to me and so now it's sort of treated me like an enemy
[00:47:36] not in a bad way kind of just we're not going to pretend to be your friend It all sounds very, very focused. There's all these weird unconscious, like unplanned, methods stuff happening behind the scenes on this movie that translates into like the texture of the thing.
[00:47:57] And I think like one of the things I like about Gina's movies so much is that they feel like very classical. They feel very old Hollywood. Like when you watch like a big studio movie from the 40s and it doesn't have a genre, it's just kind of everything.
[00:48:15] Like the idea of like a big expensive studio movie was like you're gonna have romance and you're gonna have comedy and you're gonna have drama and it's gonna be like an epic story that spans some amount of time
[00:48:25] even when it was sort of character based and actor based and all of that. And this is a movie where it just like it has every kind of element in the pot, you know? Yeah. I mean, she and Omar Epps had been in the wood together.
[00:48:43] You know, so like maybe that's where the romance starts. And I'm not sure they were definitely dating on the set of this movie. I feel like I heard that when they screen tested together, they were trying to hide that they were dating. Right.
[00:48:56] So I think they were prior to this. Yeah. They have great chemistry. I mean, it's why did they would try to hide that because I heard that in the screen test, the whole screen test was just them having sex. It was them fucking. It was them fucking.
[00:49:08] It was just like and rolling, but also they had to dribble at the same time. That was the difficult part. Right. And basketball. Well, at that point, the movie was called fucking basketball. But right. This is a crazy thing that kept on coming back in the commentary.
[00:49:23] She had to re-edit this movie like 15 times because the MPAA kept on giving it an R because they said it was too erotic. It's that classic thing with the MPAA when when sex scenes are actually
[00:49:37] like emotional and kind of like there seems to be like a lot of realism, even though you're not, you know, quote unquote seeing anything. This is what she talked about. The MPAA flips out and they're like, no, I like this is too far. No kid can handle this.
[00:49:52] She kept on saying like the word they kept on using was erotic. There were no scenes that I cut out. It was a matter of like having to go back and cut out another second here, another frame. Right. Finding an alternate take. Right. But it was never visual.
[00:50:07] And she's like almost every intimate scene in the movie is tight on their faces. And then they would tell me it was too erotic. And it's because people aren't used to seeing that kind of like intimacy and that vulnerability in sex scenes. That it like there's the most.
[00:50:24] She said the biggest argument they had was the moment when they sleep together for the first time. It stays for a long time on their two faces without cutting as you see them start to have sex and you see the range of emotions go over like
[00:50:38] Son of Latham's face as she starts to enjoy it. And they flipped out over that. Wow, too real. Flipped out. It's weird. I have one bone to pick with this movie. Do you guys have a bone picking section of this podcast?
[00:50:51] It's whatever you want to pick the bone pick away. The movie starts in 1982. And Quincy plays for the Clippers in 1982. And they called him Quincy's Quincy's dad. Yeah, Zeke Zeke. Yeah, plays for the Clippers in 1982. And they call them the Los Angeles Clippers. Well, here's the thing.
[00:51:16] They have banners up in his house that say San Diego Clippers. Okay, so they got it right. So I think they get it right, but it is within why are they in LA? It is the only thing that's a little weird.
[00:51:28] You know, I mean, I will say like I was just watching the Griffey dock. Oh, thank you. Thank you for supporting me, girl. Yeah, yeah. I worked really hard on that one. I was watching the Griffey Newman Junior dock. Yeah, downtown Griffey Newman's dock. Yeah.
[00:51:42] And they lived in Cincinnati even though he played in Seattle. Right, because that's where they were from. It's funny. It's like the Clippers Griff just so you know, moved from San Diego to LA in 84. Yeah, of course I know that.
[00:51:59] And so I guess they just want it's interesting the timing of this movie in general. I guess they just want it to line up so that by the end of the movie we can be
[00:52:10] in the present day, the WNBA can exist and all the age stuff can make sense. Like is that the thing? You know, like that must be how she's working backwards from there. Yeah, you don't want to set the end of the movie in the future.
[00:52:22] I can sure something like that anyway. Yeah, it's but you're right. You're right. Technically his dad plays for the San Diego Clippers, not the Los Angeles Clippers. Okay. All right. Right? I mean, no, you're where you're agreeing. I take my bone back. I know you can.
[00:52:36] I think you can keep half a bone in. No, I think they kind of they you see the banners, but they kind of talk around the fact that he plays in San Diego. I guess he's San Diego is what like an hour and a half from LA.
[00:52:47] I'm not an expert at two hours, two and a half hours or. Okay, that's how good you drive. See, I'm a very good driver, so I get down there in 45 minutes. But what do you drive, Carl? Dodge Challenger. I'm wow. I want to get a new car.
[00:53:01] I've been trying to get a new car. You're finding a way. I'm realizing now this episode is an excuse for you to talk about everything that you and I don't overlap on here right that we don't have anything much in common, but driving and basketball are probably one
[00:53:14] and two. What kind of car are you looking for? You live in Brooklyn, New York. I live in Brooklyn. I would say you got to get something compact. Well, I have something compact and that is the logical choice, but I'm going for it and get a pickup.
[00:53:32] Well, yeah, I'm looking somewhere in the middle of those two. I'm gonna get a pickup, get an F 150 Raptor in Brooklyn, New York. Get a stretch PT cruiser in purple. I want one of those, you know when hummers were like big yellow hummers
[00:53:48] like in the mid 2000s or all the rage? That's what I want. Yeah. Get a Nissan XTERRA. A Nissan XTERRA. The yellow ones. They were trying to beat. Oh yeah, look at that. Yep. I mean anyway, we can talk about it off like, yeah, God, look at this.
[00:54:03] This thing's got a big butt. You know what I got? It just kind of has like, yeah, exactly. It's kind of has that extra like there's a window onto the trunk. Like why would you want to look on at the trunk?
[00:54:14] So people see how much space you have. It's not for you. It's for other people behind you. Anyway, this movie, Love and basketball. This is what I had an actual question. I wanted to ask. Okay, when does the WNBA start 96?
[00:54:30] I think 90 96 97 so it is like I feel like that's an important factor in this movie is 100 percent. You're kind of charting the life of a woman who is in the first generation. Yes of female basketball players who have an outlet in America on
[00:54:47] a major when she's right when she's playing college in this movie her only route out of college would be to go play in Europe like that's the only thing available right and it's not really right. It's like not really talked about but it's it's a thing I
[00:54:59] find so fast. They kind of the movie kind of talks about you know like she ends up in right in in farce. No, no, what I'm saying is what's not really talked about is the understanding that there's very limited side route like they
[00:55:13] are charting their two careers and for him the potential is he could go to the stars and for her it's like you could end up in Europe. You know like there's no way for her to end up at equal footing to him while doing the same thing.
[00:55:28] That's what I like is like it runs throughout the entire movie but it's never sort of directly stated. It's what I love about the the writing of this film is like the dynamic of their relationship is often that she's a little too
[00:55:41] serious and that he's a little too carefree right like he's kind of like well whatever it's all going to work out for me where she's really not and it's right it's because her options are narrowing in his or widening like you know that's got your own adventure book.
[00:55:56] He's got many different outcomes that would work out for him and for her it's like there's literally one pathway. You know she has to get one of these scholarships. He has to be a one of these schools.
[00:56:06] She has to perform at this level to get a limited slot on a team in Europe and then come back home and work at a bank and then they're like they're starting up a leave for women and she's like I'm old right right because when the WNBA
[00:56:21] started a lot of those those big stars who are like you know they were they were kind of at the twilight of their career. Yeah. Like yes Cynthia Cooper that's what I'm talking about Cynthia Cooper who played on the which I recommend a documentary for
[00:56:33] you guys to watch on HBO called Women of Troy and it's about the USC teams of the mid 80s and those like Cynthia Cooper played on those things that she was like she graduated college in 1984 the league then started under 10 years.
[00:56:50] She was 31 32 years old right when the league started and still like was able to dominate but yeah, but like Cheryl Swoops I mean I think she was she was maybe in her late 20s like I'm trying to think of like those early stars and
[00:57:04] wasn't able to play Cheryl Miller couldn't even play like she got her Reggie Miller sister who was more famous than Reggie Miller when they were kids like that's kind of a funny version of that though that's brother sister but
[00:57:19] right that same dynamic where it's like there's a while where women's basketball wins basketball are relatively parallel and then they very much are not like you know then it just it's yeah well right like in high school or whatever it's one thing but there's like there's
[00:57:35] this cloud over the movie which is the highest she could possibly ascend is still pretty much lower than the lowest he could possibly ascend yeah while following it through you know. Yes exactly which it all just feels pretty realistic and
[00:57:56] kind of you know guys let's give up on me. We got to fucking take it dude I don't want it well I shouldn't say that I want this shit can I say something definitively yeah go ahead because I want to
[00:58:10] I want to let action speak louder than words I want to you know offer up something substantive I will hear by promise that I will never play in the NBA. You're out solidarity with women you know I'll do the same
[00:58:22] thing you're out I'm never going to do it I'm never going to do it in solidarity with me I'm never going to do it because I understand that I have a better chance of making an NBA team than most.
[00:58:33] Technically a woman could play for the NBA there's no rule against it women have been drafted yes Mark Cuban is kind of hinted at that sometimes being like you know draft a woman like it for the Mavericks like because I think he's sort of like stirring that
[00:58:46] conversation up every once in a while but then what happens when they draft someone the times that they have drafted a female player in the past nothing comes nothing comes of it when they when those women the two women that have been drafted to team what
[00:58:57] has only been one draftee and then there has been a woman who's been getting gotten an opportunity to try out and because of science they just were not able to compete with the men yeah but they are both two amazing basketball players I believe
[00:59:10] Louisa Harris is the woman who was drafted she was drafted by the jazz the New Orleans Jazz in 1974 she went she played at Mississippi Valley State Mississippi Delta State or something like that Delta State yeah I always love a good Mississippi story
[00:59:24] there's no footage of her but I mean if she if she got drafted in the 70s she was she must have been really good and then there was this what's her name you know whom talking about she played she got to try out for
[00:59:39] the Pacers in the early 80s little blonde hair woman who does commentary she also could really who is it Denise long that's a person I've heard of I'm not sure I'm not sure I remember Denise long she like worked out for the Warriors or
[00:59:54] something like that who's the player who plays for the Phoenix Mercury now their center and Myers who I'm talking about okay okay yeah I'm Carl's you know who I mean you talk about Brittany Griner yes Brittany Griner yes exactly and like Mark Cuban definitely
[01:00:13] like when she was about to get go number one in the WNBA was like maybe we'll draft her maybe the Mazel taker like you know he was sort of like kind of trying to start that conversation again I just think it is
[01:00:28] fascinating to watch I love movies that are about someone with like a single minded focus working towards some kind of goal you know any movie where it's like this is my dream I'm gonna work tirelessly until I get to this point and in this movie you
[01:00:45] have like dual narratives there but one person has like an incredible glass ceiling placed above them and it's not reflected in how she goes about her pursuit of the thing you know like I think it's it's obviously there in the text of the movie but the shittier version
[01:01:06] of this movie has a bunch of tearful monologues about like you don't understand what it's like for a woman I'm never going to get to play in a professional league in America. Yes you're absolutely right right she's not interested in that crap. Right she keeps on talking about
[01:01:19] her pursuit of basketball in the exact same terms that he does it's the exact same thing even though the final resting place of where she thinks she can end up for much of her life is so far away from where he can end up but also there like
[01:01:34] all of the romantic and family drama in this movie is rendered very like realistically like Dennis Hayes Burt the second Dennis Hayes Burt who is great in this movie and in all movies and we need to talk about him for a second but
[01:01:49] when he enters and he's talking about like he has a meeting you're just immediately like well alright okay so this guy is cheating on his wife yeah but like there's a version of this movie where he is a dirt bag like you know he
[01:02:00] is just a shitty guy yeah who is a totally one-dimensional character and it's you know whatever like you know it it dominates the movie and that's not really what she's interested in doing and when they break up when they have their big breakup like in the middle of
[01:02:16] the movie like it's not over any one thing it's like he acts shitty because he's going through stuff and she's not interested in like salvaging everything you know like making all the effort you know what I mean like it's a very realistic and sort of quiet breakup
[01:02:31] they talk about in the concert that the goal was to make like everyone kind of right and kind of wrong at the same time right and so when no one is doing anything outwardly right or villainous yeah and they have that conversation
[01:02:43] in the bleachers when he's found out about his dad's affairs and he's like trying to get her to console him and she's freaked out about curfew yeah in the commentary they're like well I mean he has a point which is like she's
[01:02:58] not really really needs her and he's being like emotionally open he's asking her directly he is telling her directly I could really use you right now I could really really use your support right which is a big moment and she rejects
[01:03:12] that and she could probably skip out on curfew it's like a thing that players do he maybe would do the same thing if the situation were flipped but on the other hand they're going to be much stricter on her yeah gonna be held
[01:03:27] against her more strongly and as you said she has fewer outlets if she gets reprimanded there if she gets penalized if she plays less games if she gets kicked off of the team any of these things it's like well then she's fucked she doesn't have backup roots
[01:03:42] right so I mean she has her justification there and also their young people like they're two young people there's so many things in the movie where people make like stupid decisions that are so rational and understandable Carl yeah what is your opinion on
[01:04:00] Dennis Haysbert love him I will say I'll say Dennis Haysbert is the most believable television athlete oh absolutely because he's got the physique he's got the physique he's very believable is like a military guy he's very believable and he is like you
[01:04:18] know a professional thief like he's very very very convincing as an athlete like you're saying like yeah he's a very robust guy yeah when he played what was fucking Joe boo's name major league yeah what was the character's name Pedro Serrano Serrano when he played Serrano
[01:04:37] that was believable he looks like he could really be a baseball player when he played we don't see him play basketball in this movie but he looks like somebody who's like when they first started a movie look like he could have
[01:04:48] been playing in the 80s he looks like six four yeah he looks like like Marcus Johnson and he dresses perfect like they have costumed him perfectly yeah I just realized that they're both in major league two together yeah yeah because Omar Epps plays the Wesley
[01:05:04] Snipes role in in the movie is Hayes yeah which ain't that wild that they did that I know it is pretty well it's pretty fucking crazy just eliminate the character yeah especially because it's like well Snipes has become a major movie star at
[01:05:19] this point it's not just like oh the guys unavailable like I assume he was just like yeah I'll be in major league two if I'm above the title and you give me ten million dollars and they were like oh no forget it but at that
[01:05:31] point you're gonna be more aware of the absence of Wesley Snipes if you have someone else playing his character than if he wasn't there at all especially since like what is Willie Mays he runs really fast yeah it's all like he's like an incredibly
[01:05:45] deep character was major league two good I had to see major league two it actually kind of rips yeah it's really good it makes me cry so hard it's same here is it it's not as good as major league one major league one is
[01:05:57] up is one of the top sports movies of all time it's so major league one is great to recreate major league one has let's go win the fucking thing which is like one of the top ten sports movie lines of all time so you know
[01:06:09] that is so funny also portrays pretty good baseball right uses real team names I talked about this when Griffin was on the flag room once after I need I need real team names given Sunday I can't do it it takes me out of it
[01:06:29] it takes me out I forgot to mention this on the Flagert ones episode Carl but I think you'll find this interesting one of the conditions of working with the NFL for draft day and being able to use real team names and logos and everything
[01:06:44] and also being able to film at the actual NFL draft was the filmmakers had to agree to dub over the booing when good tell you know what we'll give you permission we'll let you film here will give you the names you have to make it seem
[01:07:06] like everyone is very happy to see Roger Goodell it's amazing how protective they are over that brand and that just let you know that they know it's bullshit they know that the NFL is absolute dog shit they know it because there's so protective of it
[01:07:21] remember playmakers on ESPN yes that was my brother's favorite TV show yeah they pulled a plug on that one I couldn't get with that one either because of fake team names but it was a good show but like in the NBA draft when David Stern came out
[01:07:35] with a boo and like that was part of the joy of it he would do his ear like for the credit like he would play it up and then now Adam Silver no one booze because he's like whatever he's much more anodyne no one
[01:07:47] has a problem with Adam Silver and like that's fine too like I like the NBA it's much more it's much more on the level but it's also like this year the draft the hashtag was hashtag booth a commission like and he's like in his living room with
[01:08:01] a big as jar M&M's being like come on I can't hear it looking at his TV where everybody's on zoom and they're just like you know like putting off for the camera you know they're hired hired people like yeah come on I can't hear you
[01:08:15] like Sicilian mourners yeah why would he why would they care that booing that's funny that they've embraced it now when they were like making people I know I know but also and in that in that case like the way they embraced it this year
[01:08:29] was like well now he's acting like he's in a joke and he likes it but also right he's only doing that so he doesn't have to do it in person like the one actually have to hear a fucking arena full of fans and then remain
[01:08:43] in a room with people like that level of content for him yeah right right it makes a lot of sense that he finally embraced it once there was distance just back to Hayesburg and literally everyone in this movie is famous which I remarked to Gina Prince by
[01:08:57] Thouad when I interviewed her like it is wild how like Tyra Banks or Regina Hall are like popping up for like one or two scenes Boris Kajo shows up you know like all those little cameo performances by Kyla Pratt as baby Monica like almost everyone in this movie
[01:09:13] with dialogue who doesn't go on to become famous was a basketball player and not an actor right but Dennis Hayesburg in this or in he was in I'm trying to think of like other movies where he's played trashy like I feel like there's a few few times like
[01:09:31] he's great at playing like kind of a dirtbag he's also great at playing like immense gravitas I was going to say like he's so good at playing authority figures or like voices of reason he can be like the president right he can be like
[01:09:45] far from heaven love field he plays like these incredibly sensitive characters but then also if you need a to master storming ox like those types of very high status characters obviously all state uses him to literally just represent like safety yeah like you know like he
[01:10:01] just plays the concept of safety yes and waiting waiting to exhale he plays like a smooth talking play it right you know like and obviously in heat like he's a pretty lovable character in heat but he is playing like a you know a professional criminal
[01:10:15] who doesn't want to be a fry cook got Mr. Baseball too I forgot that he had such a big sports run in the 90s like Carl said that's career I want yeah yeah he does three major leagues loving basketball Mr. Baseball I think everyone regrets major league
[01:10:31] back to the miners so right like that's not for anyone yeah Scott Bacula Scott Bacula yeah he was back in Bacula for that one but that's what that's like where enough people have left that now Haysbert is third build we're like he's kind
[01:10:45] of just like bumped up the rain king Bacula Bernson Haysbert right Bernson is the other one who's around he's the one yeah but yes and no it is everyone so well cast in this movie I think that obviously Alfred Woodard's incredible
[01:10:59] in this like she is like and she has to be one of the top like minutes to like performance you know what I mean like even if you put her in for like one scene in a movie she will completely dominate the
[01:11:13] scene and change the picture of the movie like yeah she like it no matter what like lead role absolutely she'll kill it and then she'll like she's gonna completely destroy I came up with a term for this in a text and you said that's
[01:11:25] good and I've been waiting to use it in episode go ahead thermostat performances right right right right right it's when an actor is so commanding they change the entire temperature of the movie in a scene yeah and she's like a perfect example
[01:11:39] of that when she's the lead she does that within the movie when you only give her one scene she does that within a movie yeah the movies it structured the first quarter's yeah which I love your four quarters another thing I like is that each
[01:11:51] quarter I believe I was trying to time it watching it today I believe each quarter gets longer than the previous one which happens in real basketball all right a hundred percent but it's it stretches out like well because like in basketball the fourth quarter takes much longer
[01:12:05] because they keep on calling timeouts right yeah right you know there's a lot more fouling and like you know it can be really stop start but yeah the first 12 minutes are this opening in the 80s which start with her a kyla Pratt
[01:12:21] asking to play basketball with the boys taking off her hat revealing that she's a girl playing with them in the script it was supposed to be that they knock her tooth out son of leithin has that scar in real life right which is so
[01:12:35] so noticeable and right so good that they were like let's just use that rather than cover that up that's the thing we'll use to carry over for the whole movie now I just want to say as someone who had a friend who scarred me
[01:12:47] mm-hmm it's kind of messed up that then later it's like get over it it's like no this is on my face you fucked me up man I also have a scar but unfortunately it was my own fault I don't I can't really blame anyone
[01:13:01] I have a squire on my forehead because a kid stabbed me in the face with a wooden steak in shop class damn wow yeah do you think you were a vampire I think that was the confusion I think that was the misunderstanding I am very pale sure
[01:13:17] right yeah right um but yeah that I was bleeding out of my head wow and look then I married him had a child with him so this movie is very realistic right and I have this on my eye because I tripped over a chair in pre-k
[01:13:31] and whacked my face against the table leg and then of course I did end up marrying the chair you did marry the chair I got the scar on my finger here y'all can't see it in here but my finger is lacerated right there by the top of
[01:13:43] can of refried bean oh and me and those beans just hooked up for a while you messed with me yeah you figured it out but it was it was right exactly yeah it was casual um but that's just really good efficient economic character building and the commentary she
[01:14:05] talked so much about how hard she worked on the script how long she worked on the script how many drafts she had that she didn't think it was ready to go into production when new line wanted to acquire it she wanted
[01:14:17] like another year or two to work on it but you can just tell that it's like every single line every single movement and especially in terms of what doesn't happen on screen is so well thought out and because this movie is so much
[01:14:31] about this power balance between these two characters in the different stages of their life it's like every movement emotionally is so deliberate and so precise but yeah this opening the first quarter is mostly that sort of table setting of their dynamic as a kid
[01:14:51] he's already a hot shot and she's already constantly fighting to be recognized and he's more of a rich kid because of his dad and they're much more middle class like they are and like there's that scene between the two moms
[01:15:05] where you can see that there's kind of a gulf between them right away and even just as a kid it's like everyone views Quincy as if he is on a track for greatness and everyone views her by saying like when is she gonna drop this basketball thing
[01:15:19] right her dad Harry Lennox who I love the great yeah is like a good dad again again I just love this that like none of the parents even when the parents are maybe being unsympathetic are bad people it doesn't take any easy narrative route
[01:15:37] like that and the dad he's like you know he's supportive but he's also like yeah he's just kind of quietly like yeah well you know this won't last forever and the Quincy character goes back and forth in terms of allegiance between his parents you know
[01:15:53] I do like that he shifts between the two of them I feel like a lot of movies like this even if the story you want to tell is disillusionment with your father they wouldn't put the work in to make the relationship with the mother that strong
[01:16:09] it would just be about the opposition to the father rather than the relationship with the other parent she's really good too Debbie Moore again go man awesome so fucking yeah yeah you're just like your damn daddy did she say that in that movie
[01:16:25] I think she does yeah I know her best from Eve's bayou where she's kind of incredible in that movie if you guys have seen it which was sort of her big breakout right before this movie she got like a bunch of you know critics awards
[01:16:39] and stuff for that so wait we don't we jump towards we jump forward to nineteen nine nineteen eighty eight they're playing high school ball on the court their pals but he's kind of like you know a little cutie pie hooking up with all the girls
[01:16:57] and she's like very very serious and very closed off and very kind of like sports focus well and also my my single favorite moment in the entire film is when when Quincy's parents are fighting and then he opens up the window and knocks on
[01:17:13] son of leithon by monica's window just sleeps on her floor and it's unspoken there's just nothing said it's just very clear like this is like a routine to it there's a known routine that anytime he can't sleep because they're arguing he doesn't even have to say anything
[01:17:27] there's the spot on the floor for him to sleep and and that comes right after you see the two of them like bickering in school you think almost do they not talk at all anymore they not really close at all but it is that kind of thing
[01:17:39] that they have a really nuanced complicated relationship depending on what environment they're in right but then right then their teenagers and there's the whole teenage section the whole like there's you know on the basketball side it's sort of monica right like you know hoping to get
[01:17:55] recruited and Quincy is like already set on that for when he has like reporters following him his dad like functioning as his like publicist you know yeah like everyone's talking about where is he going to go and with monica it's like there's a
[01:18:11] hair's difference between whether I get to continue playing basketball or not yeah like I'm fighting to just continue she has kind of a temper on court and I feel like this is not really heavily addressed in the movie but Carl would you agree it's sort of like
[01:18:25] there is that kind of thing of like male players are a little more allowed to showboat a little bit more and any time she showboats or has kind of like an attitude like everyone's mad at her they're like their coaches are mad at her you know
[01:18:39] it's kind of that thing of like that's not welcome in women's basketball stick to your game like right for sure it's a sort of like a quietly coded thing guys let's just give up on male privilege right now I I rescinded I gave up my
[01:18:53] standing in the NBA all of it I don't even want to play like celebrity all-star game I'll say that I surrender that too I'm not giving this shit up if they call me for all-star weekend if I ever get big enough to play in that
[01:19:07] that's my true career goal is to play in the celebrity game and the celebrity games are getting real dumb now yeah they've gotten worse they've got babies out there and stuff it's like come on man you just damn baby off the court I'm trying to who
[01:19:21] Chuckie Finster was in the last all-star game right? Me and Brian McKnight out here trying to give buckets and you got Chuckie Finster on the court but Chuckie Finster he's like mugsy bogs like he can kind of like you know go between your legs
[01:19:37] he's slippery in the sense that he's covered in drool like he literally can slip and slide on the court and then he goes into the hardwood allergic to bar caves but somehow the sneezes help him there's that scene where Monica's older sister Lena who's played by Regina Hall
[01:19:55] yeah like this is her second or third movie I think yeah a scary movie comes out this year right right but she was in the best man she's in the best man that's literally all she's been in so far but
[01:20:11] I love that scene where she gets to the makeover and also when you see I assume like the idea is like she was a cheerleader because you see her watching her sister in the stands and she's sort of mouthing along like to the cheer like she still remembers
[01:20:23] like the basics of the cheers I really like that little moment like I like all that little character stuff that the movie doesn't need to put much emphasis on like it's all just sort of woven in there but they're still at this point treating her basketball
[01:20:37] sort of obsession as if it's a phase to keep on trying to break her down to like when will you just wear makeup you could actually date a boy if you wanted to right she basically calls them out on like you think I'm a lesbian
[01:20:47] right yeah do you want to hear something insane yeah when this movie got into Sundance in like the premiered at Sundance yeah in the booklet or whatever with the descriptions of all the films they described it as a love story between two women
[01:21:05] set in the backdrop of basketball oh so they just assumed they were like it's about female basketball player yes oh my god like obviously whoever was on the board at Sundance had seen the movie but whoever wrote the description just made the assumption and she said
[01:21:19] that when she was pitching the screenplay when she was writing it when she would talk about to people everyone assumed oh if it's about a woman in basketball it's a love story it's a game movie like they couldn't conceive of the fact that there was a straight
[01:21:33] female basketball player I heard the description said verbatim a love story about basketball and a couple women who are kind of you know right they somehow wrote that down yes yes yes it's insane through clenched teeth you know you know so they go to prom
[01:21:59] you got Gabrielle Union at this point who's looking to hook up with you right and Virginia Hall and Alfred Woodard have made over Monica and of course Gabrielle Union will go on to marry Dwayne Wade in real life yeah unrelated to this movie
[01:22:13] but she is that was the part I like the most when you took me to a Nets game when we went to a basketball game together Carl we went to a Nets game with Griff and yeah it was it was it was Dwayne Wade's last
[01:22:23] game it was the Heat Nets game there was like Wade's last game we're in like LeBron and Mellow and people were standing there and Mellow gets up and does the little dribble thing yes yeah and and when Gabrielle
[01:22:35] Union came out on the court at the end of the game Griffin got really excited I said finally a movie star as though I've been waiting all game for a movie star to come out she fired the t-shirt cannon she did that's great do that she had
[01:22:49] a good hat on from what I remember yeah maybe Mellow gave her a hat because Mellow is a real hat man yeah I'm a head man beat up a but up he's yeah exactly this is the section of the movie where you should talk about the music
[01:23:03] because the soundtrack is great the soundtrack to this movie is so good it's a pretty legendary soundtrack yeah yes I get this soundtrack mixed up with the the Wood soundtrack because that's also another amazing soundtrack yes but what I do
[01:23:19] know that it's from this film is I go to work by Koumou Di while they're playing basketball in high school and I want is the one that's like that's a that's like a banger like that always makes me think of every time I hear
[01:23:33] that song which is rare because they don't play that song but when I hear that song it reminds me of this movie and I mean like him playing for Crenshaw High School and that Koumou Di song playing I go to work well the Wood soundtrack is killer
[01:23:47] looking at it the Wood soundtrack is so good I think they have similar soundtracks because they both are set in Los Angeles in the late 80s right there they're very similar right vibes as movies I haven't seen the Wood in a very long time
[01:23:59] I have seen it those three movies Love and Basketball the best man and the Wood are like the best man those three are those movies that you like black households just have on tape or DVD and they were all like 1999 2000 yeah I'll share so much cast
[01:24:15] like between the three and they all have big ensemble actors right yeah and the best man and Love and Basketball are both produced by Spike Lee like this feels like the beginning the Wood comes about separately Rick Femiouma went to USC I think but the other two
[01:24:37] it's very much Spike Lee now finally having the cache to be able to sort of shepherd in a new generation of black film yeah Spike Lee right kind of help certainly was a big part of getting Love and Basketball made right he's sort of and I think also
[01:24:51] in the best man to Malcolm D Lee yeah right yeah Malcolm do yeah but like yeah I mean like there's a version of this movie where she is the screenwriter but they're like look you've never directed before like we're not gonna sorry like
[01:25:03] this is a big studio movie that was like so like yeah he had been Spike Lee for over a decade at this point he was so established that he could extend that to other young filmmakers and say like trust me this person's a director let them make
[01:25:17] the movie anyway at prom you just have that like they're though their whole the whole sex scene like the whole like them finally coming around on their feelings for each other seen all of that stuff the acceptance from USC for her right like yeah
[01:25:33] it's just this like lovely serendipitous kind of stuff where it's like you can absolutely see these teenagers being like this is this is meant to be we're gonna be in college together we've known each other a whole lot you know what I mean like yeah it's
[01:25:47] it's a little fairy tale and also a little like realistic and regular and kind of like awkward she said it was the thing that like the new line executives kept on complaining that Monica looked upset in the whole scene she was like no the whole point is that
[01:26:03] she's like scared nervous right and like it was one of those things like alongside the fact that everyone thought the scene was too erotic there's there's an authenticity to this as like an actual loss of virginity scene an actual sex scene between two
[01:26:19] people have known each other for that long that like it makes people uncomfortable because it's the type of thing you don't often see in movies I'm with new line it looked like she was saying the dick was trash like she sees it and she's like oh boy
[01:26:35] yeah get that trash dick back back in your pants go back across the street go back next door she does I mean it is weird that she ends the scene by logging on to Ron Tomatoes and giving it a rotten tomato giving it a little splat
[01:26:53] something to be said about showing like a condom and it being put on and it spending some time on that because of this time for special yeah yeah there's just like there are motions that without getting graphic there are motions they go through in this
[01:27:07] scene that are just like oh right they make you realize the things that most sex scenes gloss over right in just sort of doing like the softly lit montage over sacks music bullshit right and then but the thing is then because we're going to jump to them
[01:27:25] in college when they've been dating for a while which is what happens next then we just get a genuinely hot scene like the strip D's seen like the you know play which that's the other one that they wanted to give an R because that
[01:27:37] scene is really hot like that scene is like you know but it's not sexy they like the fact that the scene is actually hot yes too hot and also it's like narratively important that's what I love about it too it's like it's not just like yeah
[01:27:53] we'll just have a really cute sex scene in the middle of the movie where they like play each other you know where there is love and basketball it's like no we need to put this in because that's going to be the crucial moment in the finale is that
[01:28:05] they play for each other's love essentially for your heart so good play me for your heart this main they used to pass around it was like play me for your heart and it was just like crazy dunks on these um but yeah like you right you know
[01:28:25] the college part the typical rom-com and a second act stuff where it all falls apart it just feels realistic and it's not like oh you lied about being a baker like you know the stupid thing I always talk about
[01:28:37] let's talk about another I mean she talked so much about like the not that they were like battles with new line but there were so many things that they didn't get that she had to sort of double down on and they didn't get them because they were used
[01:28:49] to how people behave in movies rather than real life yeah and she said like I think I thought was really interesting that Gina Prince by the way said in the commentary is that she had like very protective parents and she did not see an R-rated
[01:29:03] movie until she was 18 right she was adopted yeah and when when she was at the three weeks old when she was a tiny tiny baby and grew up I think in a pretty nice neighborhood in in I think so California right yeah yeah Pacific Grove
[01:29:19] and and she had multiple siblings like adopted so well pull no no I'm sorry no this that her parents had four children and then they adopted her wow but she hadn't seen an R-rated movie until she went to film school essentially so like that's the same
[01:29:35] her going to film school was like the moment in which he started to take film more seriously is also the moment in which she starts to like greatly open up the types of movies she's watching right and she said that Scorsese was like the single biggest influence
[01:29:51] on her in the way that it was pretty good good good filmmaker but in the way that he was just sort of depicting his life and it felt that didn't feel shiny as much as there is stylization it was like he wants to show his upbringing
[01:30:05] and his experiences that have been in movies right yeah that's the thing about Scorsese the magic that people I think kind of forget now because his filmmaking about his own life has become a stereotype right now everyone references Scorsese movies when they're
[01:30:19] making it was crazy in the 70s for this guy to make these movies about like yeah it was kind of tough like I grew up in a tough neighborhood and like it was it was intense like and people are like Jesus I've never seen anything like this before
[01:30:31] yeah so she said that was like a big thing she was trying to do broadcast news was like a landmark movie for her but the other thing she said she wanted to do with this movie was when Harry Metzali yes she wanted to do a black
[01:30:43] one Harry Metzali she's pretty like she like that was sort of the marker she was throwing down right that basketball felt like the right sort of superstructure to chart that but she wanted to do that sort of story about a relationship between going through different stages
[01:30:57] over a long period of time but the thing I was gonna say is the big scene where you know he finds out about his father his father comes to him after a game right and then tells him that there's a lawsuit a paternity lawsuit yeah which he adamantly
[01:31:11] denies that when he goes home to his mother she's crying and drunk by the pool and she has the photos that a private eye is taken of him and also by the way like if you're gonna adamantly deny a paternity lawsuit
[01:31:23] after the DNA test to be done before you're just like it can't be I mean so fucking arrogant like that's this character's downfall he doesn't think that anyone can touch him I just like that he's not an absolutely evil person though
[01:31:37] you know what I mean like in all these scenes you're just like yeah he's a pro basketball player yeah yeah he has that monologue where he's like you know there are 100 girls outside the hotel room then there's 20 on
[01:31:47] your floor and there's one who makes it to your door you know like they're always trying to get you which is ridiculous and you have to reward her that's a defense you have to reward her the gauntlet the gauntlet that she made through
[01:31:59] Carl if you're thinking about like the 80s right like he's even he's on the Clippers who were shitty in the eight you know what I mean that like yeah like that's when basketball is becoming a game that's nationally televised not on tape
[01:32:11] delay like you know it's becoming a proper cool you know generational sport in the 80s like not not like sort of an also ran sport the idea I think is supposed to be that they got pregnant in their freshman year of college
[01:32:27] right right he knocked her up and right so there's this thing of like he doesn't hesitate to marry her and to be a father and to be there but he's also very aware that now this is interrupting what would be like his 10 years of bachelor dumb
[01:32:43] at the peak of his fame and success in the NBA does Quincy come at his mom about being like you were one of these holes to or like or was it he doesn't do that I think it's who says it right because it's when she finds
[01:32:57] the earring in his bed and she's yelling at him about having girls over then he tries to throw it back on her like you wanted a girl that dad had over something like that yeah like basically like like basically calling her out for being like you're you're calling
[01:33:15] these girls out but you are one of these girls so right which I think what she's doing is calling out like don't get someone pregnant yeah don't get yourself locked into like a sort of forced marriage I mean it's a I
[01:33:29] think there's such a good balance of you don't get the sense that they don't love each other you don't get the sense that they like hate each other you get the sense that they would have stayed together but they probably wouldn't have spent the
[01:33:41] rest of their lives together had she not gotten pregnant yeah there is like actual romance and sexual chemistry between the two of them charismatic people yeah yeah so yeah so but anyway so the relationship falls apart fairly realistically because of this you also have
[01:34:00] you know these great juxtaposition sports scenes where you see him playing for USC in a screaming arena full of people with TV cameras and you know what I mean and like and you see her playing in like a pretty regular gym and those games are of equal importance
[01:34:18] you know what I mean yeah USC not a great basketball school right OJ Mayo I'm trying to think of like like USC players SC basketball has never been a thing FC men's basketball is never really a thing the women dominated demar to Rosen yeah
[01:34:32] right there yeah touch Gibson was on that team okay yeah but like they never go like deep in the and seeing the March madness or Nick yeah also the women's team obviously right way who Nick young was also a SC oh sure Swaggy
[01:34:48] yeah they have they usually have good players but they don't really make it that far but like there's this sort of undercurrent in this movie of like he's like why I'm just gonna go pro as soon as I can yeah yeah and his dad is like don't
[01:35:04] do that that's what I did like and it kind of leaves you a little emotionally stunted like it's not gonna be good for you but like which is because like which I feel like in the 90s Carl like that was still definitely the
[01:35:16] thinking of like stay in college as long as you can no and now sort of like this thing where it's like well yeah what are you gonna do play for no money like and you know enter the NBA when you're 23 years old or whatever
[01:35:28] and you know like having essentially just wasted years of your life not making money it sucks I mean it's a bad system but also the just go ahead and say Carl say something far more insightful about how basketball works now I was just
[01:35:40] talking about how they even going in at 20 I was looking at when Cal Cousin the first came to the league and how people were like well he's older and he's like the dude is 22 right and people just act like he's fucking done yeah whatever
[01:35:52] in a couple years you just gonna have to get rid of him anyway I was gonna say it's just the narrative disparity between the path these two characters are on that that's the battle he's facing is like how long do I stay in college relative to going pro
[01:36:08] and for her it's like how close am I to being kicked out of this dream entirely because also her coach is much harder on her right which you come to understand is because she recognizes that she's a high level player that the standard is higher
[01:36:24] for women in basketball because the opportunities are fewer and so she has to be harder on her to make sure that she does become good enough to be able to continue he's kind of set like it's just the matter of which which options he picks right it's Christine
[01:36:40] Dunford place a coach I was looking her up she's I'm very familiar I feel like she's just been in a ton of stuff is like authority figures I feel like she must have played like a lot of lawyers and cops and stuff did she hoop though
[01:36:52] well she's tall she looks like a basketball player she's from the Bronx she she's like a theater person though she went to Juilliard she seems like just fully a theater person so I guess she just had the look David did you play basketball
[01:37:10] was that something that you were into when I was a little kid when I was a kid I played because I was tall like literally just basically like they were like well you're really tall you should play basketball but I have terrible hand-eye coordination which is pretty crucial
[01:37:24] to playing basketball how tall are you David? I was like 6'3 I was always a tall kid but eventually when you're 6'3 you're probably going to be a guard and I love basketball so much but I'm not very good at it
[01:37:40] you wiggle your arms a lot like a muppet I have to imagine that doesn't serve you particularly well in basketball Carl did you play basketball? yeah I played up through freshman year college I played Division II basketball there you go you were a point guard? I was
[01:38:00] I didn't play that was when I kind of realized because I was a power forward in high school of course because back then you're tall enough to play the forward and I was able to walk on to the team and practice basically get used as a practice dummy
[01:38:18] got very minimal playing time and then kind of realized at that point it was just like okay this is done and what's next? I will do comedy you're good at it we're not just saying this because you're on I feel like David and I both flipped out
[01:38:40] the first appearance of chief like as long time it is one of my favorite ever moments listening to a podcast while I'm doing the damn dishes and like one minute and I'm like oh I see what he's doing oh my god like you know that just that little
[01:38:56] moment but also I think it was just the feeling of like that came at a time where it felt like there was a rotation happening where a lot of like the old guard comedy bang bang people were like starting to not appear on the
[01:39:08] show as much a lot of characters were getting retired sure there was the question of whether like new replacements would come in and I remember us recording like the day after that first chief episode dropped and going like it's here we're there's gonna be another
[01:39:20] stage like there's gonna be a continuing run of comedy bang bang value I appreciate that thank you so much X told me to do that character really yeah did you do like that impressionist like a character you did right yeah it was something
[01:39:38] I was messing around with her like okay we were talking about Carmen San Diego and I started doing that voice and she was laughing the voice is also like spot on it we have the same like tenor or whatever Tom Burr or whatever the whatever that
[01:39:54] word is me and land thick pen have the same because also you know whenever you see comment just kind of say you know when they love to criticize and they will be like oh this character what's that up to criticize yeah especially airwolf fans yeah they say
[01:40:12] he signs that that character sounds like chief like when I did a Larry black man is like that character sounds like she's like well yeah I kind of sound like I think that's why I do it good yeah yeah you gotta know your strengths
[01:40:32] but next week I'm doing a lot of lozha really no you should no one does a lozha if you had a lozha if you had a lozha you could get on SNL next season they're looking for a lozha he was like killed off on the Sopranos
[01:40:46] because he didn't remember his lines really yeah Robert lozha look did Robert lozha just zoom bomb us suddenly I'm podcasting with the lozha himself go fuck yourself that's like that story I forget what actor it was who's the actor who got fired from like LA law or
[01:41:12] homicide because they they took long shits it was murder one you're the camp the TV show murder one yes his name was Daniel Benzali yes the star of the show like it's not like he was a small number one on the call sheet
[01:41:28] do you know this story Carl no big bald guy but I love his story and he was like kind of like he'd been around but this was like his big breakout role he gets like you know whatever a golden glow you know like he's he's hot shit
[01:41:42] and then he gets written out of the show the show got cancelled after two seasons because it just went downhill and the reason he was always late to set was that he took a giant shit in the morning and was an hour late to work every day because
[01:41:58] of it and I want to fight he was like it was like he lived in like I get up I have my coffee then I would have to wait till I get my morning dump and botch go the even botch go is like just come
[01:42:10] to work and do it there and he was like no now I can't do that I can only do it in my own house which I get I get it yeah right and they were like they were like I guess we're going to fire you as the star
[01:42:22] of this hit show is like about the story is that when you hear it it was like months of negotiation where they kept on trying to problem solve and botch go would be like okay what if you just don't drink coffee until you get to set and
[01:42:36] like the drive so long I need it to stay awake and it's like okay what if you only drink decaf or like a smaller cup and then the rest of it you drink when you arrive what if we there was
[01:42:46] like a thing of like what if we rent you a hotel room that's halfway between Malibu and the sets so you can pull over take a shit and then come to set like they really tried to solve it every way they could
[01:42:58] and then finally he was like what can I say I guess this just it's not going to work out gonna work I can't be the star of your TV show my turds come first kudos to him for standing strong I love it it's my favorite story I wish
[01:43:12] that was the every time you hear that an actor was fired because they were difficult to work with that was always the reason and I would be great I love that everyone involved was like look there were no hard feelings we just
[01:43:22] go we couldn't square the circle it was I think there were some hard people people I mean look there might have been some soft bowel movements but no hard feelings all right look okay what happens in the break up scene the break up scene right you have
[01:43:36] the confrontation on the bench when he tries to like tell her I could really use the support right now and she goes to sleep because she has to respect her few and then the next night there's the party scene and he shows up really so fucking mean right
[01:43:54] really mean really drunk dismissive of her and then when she finally tries to break through to him then he starts getting like overly sexual with her in front of everybody so she sort of pushes him away and then there's the scene in the dorm room yeah where
[01:44:10] he shows up with another girl and then acts like what what's wrong like what's the problem and that was another scene that they apparently argued over a bunch because she was like why isn't she screaming why doesn't she break down crying
[01:44:22] why doesn't she like go to her own door and like close the door behind her she reacts in character totally this is a very contained performance like she's just not this kind of person who's going to let herself be vulnerable in that way
[01:44:34] and the other thing the executives asked her was like why doesn't she attack the other girl that he's bringing what sure yeah and and Gina Prince why I throw like to her credit was like these movies always fucking make it this thing where it's a competition
[01:44:48] women new line being like so what isn't there a cat fight right moment I that's what I'm imagine they literally wanted her to slap the other woman and she was like it's not about her like that she's not the problem here the
[01:45:02] problem is that he's doing this to her and she's so sort of like blindsided by that she doesn't even know how to react in the moment that's such a good scene because she includes that nasty little button of the Monica walks out
[01:45:14] and the guys laugh and it's like why the fuck are you laughing except that you just feel awkward like I guess is the reason but it's so it's so awful that they laugh and she doesn't even see it's just for us to see that's crazy
[01:45:28] wow and then but then but yeah fourth quarter I really love this because it does feel again like a really realistic basketball they finally have a breakup but it's like their breakup is happening like four chunks but they finally have the real conversation but like
[01:45:44] when we jump forward she's in Barcelona she's playing for in the Euro League basically so crazy fact she assumed they wouldn't be able to film in Barcelona that they obviously did because it's got all that great location you know how they did no
[01:46:02] because they had cast Tyra Banks right Virgin Airlines had offered to pay to fly everyone out to Barcelona in exchange for Tyra Banks wearing a Virgin Airlines outfit because her character was a stewardess and they thought it would be good promotion for them wow
[01:46:22] even though Tyra Banks is the character you want out of the movie I know but that's the only reason we got to go to Barcelona I had never budgeted for it I assumed we couldn't do it and then Virgin Airlines came in and said we heard you have
[01:46:34] Tyra Banks we heard she's getting into acting is there any way we can have her be a Virgin Airlines stewardess I love the Barcelona stuff I love it when she's like sitting on the balcony like I love that it really feels like she's in a completely foreign place
[01:46:48] like that it's kind of cool but she can't even enjoy it because it's so weird and she's so lonely and that she's like signing autographs for those kids in front of posters of herself but the posters are already kind of falling down and they're in Spanish
[01:47:00] and like that opening scene where the coach is giving this impassioned speech but like she doesn't even really know what he's saying and it turns out he was just saying look just give the ball to Monica
[01:47:10] and there are no subtitles and the scene goes on for so long like you keep on waiting for him to translate himself and he never does until the very end and then he's just sort of dismissing and the one that says on the team
[01:47:20] just get the ball to Monica yeah yeah I like and then she runs into her old rival from USC like all that stuff it just it all feels so natural just like Quincy becoming a shitty role player who has obviously been traded three times and like maybe
[01:47:38] is a three and D guy like Carl what do you think his ceiling is he like takes a three well first of all Omar Epps is 5'10 he's not a tall man he's a regular size person well I think that it was just that's kind of what
[01:47:54] Griffin has been talking about this whole time of their two ceilings and how she is still like because of all the work that she's put in all those years she's still like killing it in Europe and he's just like yeah he made it to the league
[01:48:06] but he's not going to be in the league very long it also feels like his heart's not in it like from the moment he finds out about his dad he feels so disillusioned with life and I think he kind of resents the NBA for his parents relationship
[01:48:22] like he views it as like if my father were not successful if he didn't have women like banging down his doors in hotel rooms and stuff my family would have been happy so it feels like he's very cynically playing major league basketball because
[01:48:36] he feels like he's supposed to right and I would say this is more her movie like it's an incredible performance and she is kind of the big but he's good and he is good at playing that kind of sullenness
[01:48:48] like you know without without having to go too big like right he still made the NBA even though he kind of doesn't give that much of a shit anymore like he was on such a guaranteed pathway he's like Patrick Ewing jr. or whatever or you're just like yeah
[01:49:04] your dad's famous when you're deep on the bench do you still get paid well no I mean it depends on your contract yeah league minimum is like 650,000 or you might be like a 400 jokin or whatever where like you are riding the bench
[01:49:20] because you're no good anymore but you're still like you know you signed a huge contract back when you were still pretty good I don't know oh a rookie in NBA makes a minimum of $893,000 to play yeah I think it went up it went up and when
[01:49:34] assumes he was drafted in the first round right like I was probably making like a million a year maybe not 90 the 90s 99 yeah for $893 $893,000 a year you ain't never got to play me you would do like the thing where you just have like complicated handshakes
[01:49:54] or doing this player I'm just holding people back I'm doing the whole back with somebody please can you like holding up you're holding up the three at each time anyone's in the corner ooh yeah I'm talking shit to the other players you're doing a big towel
[01:50:10] work oh man making money if you are going on the court your job is that you are fouling someone you're only going I'm like looking at the women in the first couple roles being like okay listen listen we're at the four seasons we're at the four seasons
[01:50:26] you're the opposite of dance hazebert you're telling them exactly where you're staying I am on the fourth floor asked to see Robert lozha that's who I booked at this hotel and can you guys guess what the maximum salary is the maximum salary 2020 in the WNBA
[01:50:50] oh boy the max salary in the WNBA I'm gonna say it's $230,000 overshot it $215,000 it was a significant bump only this year from 117 they just signed a new CBA maximum's 117 as you said versus being paid a little under a million to ride the bench and also
[01:51:18] those women have to play year round so they finish their WNBA season and then they go overseas still to this day and a lot of them get like Breanna Stewart who's like one of the top players in the league can't stay healthy
[01:51:32] and it's because she's constantly playing basketball I know it's so crazy well also like so many so many male athletes after they retire it's like okay you have for many of them this short shelf life but then you get to open a restaurant
[01:51:48] or you get to be a real estate broker or you get to go on tv or you get to be a coach like you can you know go into WNBA coaching ranks even the less shiny right you can cash in on your celebrity probably right
[01:52:02] you're still sort of front facing it's still your name it's still like look it's my name it's my face it's this and that even like the real estate ship where so many of them go into that it's like for that reason
[01:52:12] she ends up working at a fucking bank it's just like I know it's like now you just have to sit at a desk like even if as you said Carl you're being paid the maximum salary which is $200,000 a year
[01:52:24] but also you're playing in Europe in the off seasons when your career ends you're not able to capitalize upon it even in the way that the lowest level NBA player could yeah let's renounce our male privilege guys I already did I'm never gonna play basketball the WNBA is
[01:52:44] inarguably like the biggest success in American sports in terms of like a women's professional league that is like you know on television and like you know the NBA like made way more of a concerted effort on that front than baseball or football has ever done and nonetheless
[01:53:02] that disparity is so extreme what I want to talk about is that they play basketball for each other's heart let's talk about high skates game of gas of ball right guys it comes all the way back around yeah yeah it's great I don't know it rules it's great
[01:53:16] it's exactly what you want to happen no I like the way all of this plays out I mean A.I. like the scene where she has the she gets drinks with her formal rival from college I do like that shift and like they have so much
[01:53:30] tension in the second quarter and now it's like they've both made it like they both have gotten where they wanted to get to even if they're playing on opposite teams now rather than the same team they're able to casually have drinks and compare stories
[01:53:44] after that and the difference of just like she totally enjoys it she likes traveling around the world she likes sleeping with random guys in Europe Sana Layton seems a little miserable with everything outside of the basketball the basketball is the only thing that Monica's really enjoying
[01:54:00] she hates sleeping with random guys she feels like it's a part of the job but she hates it she gives it a splat tomato much like Omar's dick also when she is going through it because she realizes that he has a fiance I like how you see the
[01:54:22] relationship with her mother kind of go to this new place that's a really crucial scene not exactly showdown but the kind of reckoning with her mom where it's like both of them are realizing like we were really misjudging each other's love for each other
[01:54:40] when we were when I was a teenager when Monica was young I also think like the fact that she Tyra Banks the fiance is a flight attendant they talk about in the commentary that's the idea that it's like here's someone who's traveling as much as he is
[01:54:58] who has gone as much as he is right, right, like he lifestyle like how often are they syncing up in the same place at the same time he's able to have this sort of right, that's the thing she said like it's like
[01:55:10] he has a fiance who's like a trophy nice woman she's incredibly beautiful and he probably doesn't have to spend that much time with her put in the work in the relationship and her name is pronounced Kira not Kyra because Tyra Banks demanded
[01:55:22] that the character not have a name that rhymed with her name I love that she's not like an asshole just letting you know she's like an obstacle like at worst right like she's you're just like now this is not how this movie is working out
[01:55:38] she's an optical illusion very well said I make sure that every part I play the character's not name is Laurel that's your first question when they offer you a role who am I playing in this? Laurel? Laurel? No, no, no Laurel
[01:55:58] you were supposed to be in the Laurel and Hardy biopic and it was too close for comfort yeah I said no I can't do it because I have a southern accent so when I say that name I say Laurel and it sounds
[01:56:10] you put a drawl you put a drawl on Laurel yeah that becomes Laurel when they play the one-on-one game it is a little bit like that meme where Omar Epps is like alright let's me basketball and then like starts like you know he's not he's not really playing
[01:56:26] for her heart like he's just trying to beat her yeah you know there it's that him kind of like working out that I feel like that anger of over you know how things went wrong for them but isn't that like the thing that drew
[01:56:38] them to each other so much in the first place was that they both were such like passionate focused people like it wouldn't be romantic if they were playing a flirty game rather than playing their hardest and it's also nice that even though he's been playing in the NBA
[01:56:54] like this is the first game he's played probably since getting injured like you see him at the beginning of the game be kind of rusty and have to loosen up right and but then of course right the little twist is that even though he wins
[01:57:08] he's like you know two out of three because you know obviously he does want to be with her yeah and then you get a little flash forward where she's playing in the NBA and he's sitting in the NBA she's on the sparks yeah
[01:57:22] did you guys watch until after the credits you see your daughter playing in the playground you see her daughter get a get a bucket this is I mean I pitched Gina on a sequel when I interviewed her because like it's been 20 years yeah everyone in this movie is
[01:57:38] famous yeah like you know get them all back and then have it be about their daughter right like it's such an obvious there's so many things you could do I mean she told me like no way but maybe I thought it was a good pitch
[01:57:50] maybe replace Omar Epps with Leslie Snipes oh just is like a little meta thing even things out but what's the same as like 10 years older than Omar Epps which is one reason that it's crazy it's crazy major league too and it's like do you find a
[01:58:06] fucking found of youth you just lost a cool decade man like but like you know she was I mean she gave me a nice answer which is essentially like go fuck yourself think she was like if you fucking talk to me like this again I'll kill you no
[01:58:24] no she was like she really thinks like the movie is pretty unspoilable and I worry that I would ruin it like you know like they ever like and so well it's such a nice contained story like I almost just want to leave it alone but
[01:58:38] she know I mean she gets that it has it was not a huge hit when it came out it wasn't like a flop or anything but like it did not like overperform and it's just had like such an insanely long tail was Carl said it was like
[01:58:50] huge home video movie huge TV movie soundtrack was a huge trailer and like by two or three years later people were already sort of heralding it as like this is the most one of the most underrated movies the last however you read the
[01:59:04] reviews and they're all kind of like oh yeah it's okay and I think it's because the movie is understated like they just didn't know what to do with it like I think you know probably critics are just going in expecting like more of a really brassy sports movie
[01:59:18] or like I don't I don't know exactly but like it's a because it's a black movie right there's a huge part of it part of it yes people immediately go oh this is not for me it's not for me and it's like just watch a good movie
[01:59:30] especially in 2000 like I think it's just unassailably true like so many critics are just like oh this isn't something I need to take serious yeah it's unfortunate like you know I mean it won the independent spirit award for best first screenplay it's her and I played at
[01:59:46] Sundance and it was kind of a big it was really well received it's like so it's absolutely ignored but I do feel like it was not quite given its do no but it also a grew very quickly you know and it's some weekly didn't issue that was
[02:00:00] like the 25 best movies you haven't seen and it was only like a year later and they put this on it and I think it was the most recent release they had put on it I feel like everyone in the media very quickly was like we fucked
[02:00:14] this one up we should have given this one more attention I do think you're right Carl that it is like in the same way that I think the ratings board was freaked out because like you're seeing that kind of intimacy especially
[02:00:28] with black actors was like a new thing for them and I think for critics they didn't know how to process it because they were so used to seeing like films with black leads be a very limited type of thing yeah those three movies were talking
[02:00:40] about best man the wood and love and basketball really start to like redefine that a little bit I feel like that's very much a sea change I'm trying to find this quote here that is really aggravating but David maybe pull up the box office while I find it
[02:01:00] I've got the box office ready for you this movie came out April 21st on the year 2000 so Carl I have a broken brain and my version of sports got the stats is that I remember almost every box office weekend damn that's tight
[02:01:14] so I try to guess this was my equivalent my father would do the sports scores with my brother and then he would flip to the other section of the newspaper and do the box office top 10 with me and the movie made 27 million domestic and basically nothing internationally
[02:01:28] which you know because it basically wasn't sold internationally Gina when I interviewed her said the old guard the Netflix movie is her first movie that will really play internationally crazy like all three of her other films Secret Life Bees Beyond the Lights like
[02:01:42] have just never like this the studios just didn't even bother to sell them yeah if that you know like sell the international rights because you know movies with black actors don't sell was always and then also movies party American sports on top of that I mean this
[02:01:58] one right right right but then but like you know like Beyond the Lights was not released internationally so this movie did pretty well but not huge I think it made 27 on a 20 budget and probably killed on home video like you know
[02:02:10] but number one that week it opens in number two Griffin number one that week is oh shit we just did it in a box office game weekend again April 21st 2000 it's a war movie you 571 yeah damn dog and you know what's crazy about that I
[02:02:24] don't know that much about sports you're saying you would if I was like hey Carl who was like leading in the Atlantic Division in April and then I was like I'm not going to be able to do that I'm like leading in the Atlantic Division in April
[02:02:40] 2000 like go you know well you know what was the Clippers record in 1982 man I might know a little bit of that but that's because I just read books and kind of can remember facts every now and then but I would not know what the Clippers
[02:02:52] were doing the April 21st 1982 a specific weekend look I've said this before it's not a joke I could probably identify five states on a US map visually I'm guessing I would pop out at five there are so many basic things that I don't know
[02:03:10] and I remember what you 571 it opened like 16 it opened to 19 million dollars to have a submarine movie I've seen it once I remember having cool sound design you know I'm not going to go weeks it's a decent movie
[02:03:28] I remember going to see it and finding it too stressful and walking out and into a different movie and now I'm trying to think what movie I must be into a stressful movie it's definitely stressful maybe we'll hear about it the wind up was was Harry Potter out
[02:03:40] then Harry Potter comes out 2001 okay I know I was in the fifth grade when I came out right right right yeah I was I was 14 when this movie came out um yeah it was fifth grade for this yeah number two is love and basketball number three is
[02:04:00] a war what did it open to love and basketball open to 8 million dollars okay that was all me is you went million times at a dollar theater at a dollar theater yeah it's a war movie it was number one the week before
[02:04:18] kind of doesn't exist we were soldiers we were soldiers later um big director but he is enemy at the end of his career no fuck that's another good guess though engagement rules of engagement you gotta follow the rules Samuel Jackson Tommy Lee Jones Guy Pierce William Friedkin
[02:04:40] director of the exorcist doesn't exist kind of doesn't exist have you seen rules of engagement Carl no no it's uh some sort of true story movie I don't know what it's about thank you all for having on your movie podcast but I have to tell you something
[02:04:56] I don't watch movies like that that's fair movies at all so you must be loving quibi Carl are you just eating that shit on quick bites quick bites taking a ton of quick like a quick bite yeah Carl you might not know this but I am the founder
[02:05:10] and CEO of quibi so thank you for watching I won't I won't disparage you a rough couple thank you for the candy in the office oh you're welcome of course I sent candy to every office I thought it'd be a great strategy
[02:05:22] to quibble it up they have a wall of candy at the quibi offices and they go have some candy that's nice take advantage of this huge candy wall and I think because of COVID now we're not gonna be able to do candy wall anymore can I ask you
[02:05:36] the candy wall is just rotting I assume I assume the candy that quibi offers is only like fun size like many like fun size bars yeah many many fun size bars but it's a full wall of everything like so you get anyone
[02:05:50] brings a king-size twix in or whatever we throw it out the window with a golf club and do they do they serve you Laquaw in like the little like cap that they give you at the doctor to swallow cough syrup yeah it's a
[02:06:04] it's a they say drink this and remember it's of quibi and they pour it into yeah it's a quasi it's a quick sip the body of quasi yeah the body of quasi thank you speaking of drinking number four at the box office griffin
[02:06:20] it's in its second week it's made seven million dollars it's a rehab drama twenty eight days twenty eight days that's easy to narrow down yeah sandra bullet goes to rehab meets Steve Buscemi and Vigo Mortensen yeah I would say it girl interrupted that's a that's
[02:06:42] sort of mental institution movie but yeah sure take one more step and I'm a jandice in my order your elders in your chest about doing whoopee no I thought about it that's when I got a master they I mean you had when you said chess like that that's
[02:07:00] you know she has this kind of base that kind of like her voice can go really deep and here's why I know that because I've seen the commercial a million times because I watch a ton of TV hmm right but
[02:07:12] I just wasn't a huge movie guy but I just take one more step I'm a jandice in my order your orders in your chest David and I often invoke we are duly appointed federal marshals you do a little bit of federal marshals from the Shutter Island commercial
[02:07:26] anything like that where you just hear the one line over and over again for nine months David and I will continue to do for a decade after that God there's some trailers yeah all right number five at the box office is and these movies are all making like
[02:07:40] eight seven to eight million dollars it's a very even box office is a romantic comedy I recently rewatched it it's pretty good hmm kind of similar to love and basketball in that it is like a big generational like you know it's like you have charting a
[02:07:58] relationship from when their kids to when they're grown-ups but it's like a trio I'm wondering if this is what I snuck into after leaving you five seven one does this feel like a movie that ten or eleven girl Griffin would want to see probably yes
[02:08:14] because it has a comedy star who you probably liked has three people oh oh is it keeping the faith keeping the faith Edward Norton Ben Stiller Jenna Elfman directed by Edward Norton inexplicably classic rabbi priest sex comedy all my brother's favorite movies for sports movies
[02:08:36] almost specifically basketball movies keeping the faith weirdly my brother loved so much we saw it twice in theaters he was seven at the time and then that movie is long it's long the following year my brother's birthday party was a sleepover where they watch keeping the
[02:08:54] faith on VHS it was a bunch of eight-year-old boys watching keeping the faith it is one of forky's favorite movies one of my fiance's favorite movies wow I I mean forky loves Edward Norton yeah Edward Norton is the cutest which I
[02:09:12] kind of snack a never understood who does more snackable in that movie yeah I guess so I like Edward Norton in The People vs. Larry Flint oh so good now oh yeah he's creating that was that the top five that's the top five you also got
[02:09:26] Aaron Brockovich big summer hit spring hit you've got the road to El Dorado another animated not classic El Dorado right um you've got Return to Me the Bonnie Hunt movie yes man none of these movies would exist anymore no you're probably stuck in El Dorado
[02:09:46] no because I definitely I made a point I bought a ticket for El Dorado I remember dragging my dad to El Dorado and him resenting it you 571 I saw by myself okay well you probably weren't sneaking into final destination no because that's even more stressful
[02:10:02] were you sneaking into the skulls no classic secret society at college drama the skulls no like now I'm wondering if there's a holdover movie from like late 99 that I was seeing well I don't know I'm just giving you what's in the you know you got high fidelity
[02:10:18] you got um the under seen teen drama gossip mm with James Marsden and Joshua Jackson you've got Romeo must die with Aliyah and Jet Lee look I saw these movies in theaters I saw Romeo must die in theaters I'm inclined to say looking at the box
[02:10:38] office here there's a decent chance I snuck in to see Toy Story 2 again toy story 2 is still playing on 516 remember in Romeo must die they would like you heat jet Lee would kick someone and it would go to like an x-ray and you would see him like breaking
[02:10:52] their bones yeah you had like jet Lee vision yeah it was cool do you remember in Romeo must die when the guy says sorry Romeo but you got to die in case you didn't get it and then the greatest
[02:11:06] you never see whether he dies or not it's like they were hoping they were really banking on being able to make a sequel or at least a quick so weird that they were we're going to make we're going to make a martial arts movie
[02:11:18] that's an adaptation of Romeo must die about American Romeo and Juliet sorry about African-American and Chinese gangs like you know doing martial arts together and it's directed by a Polish cinematographer everything about the movie is insane it's so weird person piece of Lea
[02:11:36] yep but that's it that's the box office we did it that's the love and basketball box office game yeah just just a great movie like a perfect little movie I found the quote I was looking for I was trying to find this special that she did
[02:11:50] the first thing she directed what about your friends that Gina did she directed the water much the video the music video for TLC no it's like a CBS see this is the problem I was looking for the special and the results kept on being the TLC video
[02:12:06] this was like a CBS TV special that's three high school friends talking about their future and predicting what the rest of their lives are going to be like and it's a large four he's a Monica Calhoun and Melinda Williams and it's about them heading off to UCLA
[02:12:22] and I can't find it anywhere it looks like it was released on VHS or DVD at some point it was like very high rated and it seems to have been popular I feel like that was on UPN maybe I don't know but there's this
[02:12:36] line in the review it's what you were saying Carl about how like people didn't take this movie seriously at the time because they dismissed it as a black movie they weren't thinking of it as a romance or a character based story or anything else like that
[02:12:48] like that was viewed as the genre this review from variety of the special says director writer Gina Price's story line sweet and endearing in itself to be sure and nicely paced has no particular ethnic relevance what is that me like what he's saying is I don't understand
[02:13:10] this movie why is it being told with black characters gotcha gotcha gotcha gotcha which is like a crazy thing to read in a review from 1995 but I do think if we're going to spend the next month talking about her movies
[02:13:22] and I think none of her movies have sort of been recognized in their time to the degree that they should have that's sort of a recurring thing of her getting pigeonholed where people like taking too long to eventually see her films because they view them
[02:13:36] as something else and the idea of what they're viewed as is stupid golly that's the way the world boys that's how the cookie crumbles boys that's how the cookie crumbles say griffin when I was talking to her I kind of floated the narrative of like you haven't
[02:13:56] gotten to make enough movies because her career is kind of you know she makes a movie like every sort of six to eight years like it's not you know every couple years and she kind of slapped it down where she was like I've gotten a lot
[02:14:10] of movie offers that I did not want to do like I really just only make a movie if I want to make a movie she's like it's a lot for me to do a movie like I've got kids I have like a whole
[02:14:22] life I'm working you know like and it's sort of what you're talking about with her script for this where she was like maybe it needs another year I think she like really really tries to hone her whole like the script to the project she's working on so
[02:14:34] perfectly so that it's like absolutely ready to go when she's going to give it a green light it's it's sort of fascinating she's a very deliberate artist yeah and speaking of deliberate artists Carl Tartan she has a very interesting arc
[02:14:46] that we're going to get into but yes Carl Tartan Carl Tartan thank you so much for being on the show listen thank you for having me boy y'all go long don't you we go long we're so long Carl he didn't
[02:14:58] warn you they didn't tell me this is maybe the shortest episode we've ever done that's wild and that's not true we're going like two and a half hours gripping and y'all do this weekly yeah holy shit and we have a patreon we essentially do two a week
[02:15:14] listen man i love it i had such a great time talking about this movie i haven't been able to talk about this movie in this much depth ever in my life with like other people that aren't my mom or my friends not that you guys aren't friends
[02:15:32] because we are friends now baby we're working towards it we're working towards it but i appreciate you for having me and thank you so much well i came on Flager on to talk about my draft day and then you and i were messaging
[02:15:44] back and forth afterwards about other sports movies you were asking me about like slap shot which i said of course i've seen i have to uh respect and support all of my fellow cinematic newmans but then we were like scheduling this episode and i realized like oh
[02:16:02] i think david was one suggested like if you've been talking about sports movies with Carl you should see if he likes loving basketball you did it right as soon as you said it oh yeah i'm all about this shit i am here for this
[02:16:14] and thank you for being here hopefully soon to be on the NBA celebrity all-star game man absolutely that would be dope let's put it out into the universe i on the other hand will never play in the NBA and that's a promise that's a promise i'm making publicly
[02:16:30] uh thank you all for listening please remember to rate review subscribe thanks to and for good for co-present show rachel jacob's for editing help thanks to laymon covering for a theme song jupon and pat randals for our artwork go to uh patreon.com
[02:16:48] access blank check for blank check special features uh we're gonna be doing an episode on disappearing acts starring carl's mother i have to call her and see what part she plays should we do that now should we do it on the air it's your call it's your call
[02:17:02] totally your call you can tell us later whatever you feel most comfortable doing carl um but yes a carl's mom son of leith and uh westley snipes vehicle oh here we go oh my god wow this is good content
[02:17:16] she saw it was you and she was like yeah straight to voicemail she can tell you're peak podcasting out mom mom can you can you answer a question for me right now you're currently live on the radio can you answer what parts you played in the movie
[02:17:33] disappearing acts did you hear that i'm not sure disappearing acts yeah weren't you in that movie no what you tell me with westley snipes and son of leith yeah weren't you in that no i was not in that one which one were you in at around that time
[02:17:53] now i look like a fraud live on the radio oh my goodness no it's okay which one which movie are you looking for maybe it was what was the movie you was in with angela basit what movie was that strange days
[02:18:11] why do we use to talk about disappearing acts you're in strange days we love strange days she can't hear you guys but yes they love strange days so they may have seen you in strange days but did you have it on tape or something
[02:18:27] yeah i had disappear nags on tape okay that's what it was alright i'll call you back well me and michelle that's probably a popular one that they like you know i don't know yeah wrong me and michelle wrong me and michelle's high school
[02:18:39] you and she was in that alright i'll call you back my okay alright alright shout out to your mom just in general for owning disappearing acts on vhs and like she's in strange days is one of the strange days is like ultimate one of our biggest episodes ever
[02:18:59] yeah she was in that huge wait what's your mom's name her name is bleep my mom's name please okay i'm sorry your mom is of course juliet lewis in the film strange days yes my mom is juliet lewis i also love that you are confusing
[02:19:17] which movies your mom owned with which movie she acted because i was so young back then yeah yeah right you just assumed like oh it's on the shelf she's probably in it oh man Carl thank you again for being on the show
[02:19:33] and thank your mom for being on the show anonymously yes i appreciate uh and tune in next week for the secret life of bees that's right and as always i'm officially retired from the mba