Lust, Caution with Chris Weitz

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to express All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check To kill the enemy, she would have to capture his heart And podcast her own!

[00:00:26] Oh, what are you replacing? Break, I don't know. That's a- Okay, I mean that sums it up. I got another one. Here's the other tagline from the real poster From the Academy Award-winning director of Podback Broadcast! Yeah, uh-huh. That's good. Have we started? Yeah, we've started.

[00:00:45] You're talking about the earliest two have ever jumped in before being introduced. Very early. I have a respect tradition. Yes, thank you. A true blankie knows when to jump in and it's ASAP. I think we've been saying the name of this miniseries- The soonest podcastable. Thank you.

[00:01:01] Yes, right. Like, I don't even remember what the name of this miniseries is. We've been getting it wrong because we established, we picked a name and then we told the great Pat Reynolds to do the artwork

[00:01:13] And then I forgot what the name was and I said the opposite thing of the artwork he had made I think it's officially Podback Mountcast That is what it officially is. But I think I've been saying Broke Pod Mountcast almost every episode. Right, we have it.

[00:01:28] It doesn't matter. It's silly that we do this. All of this? No, we'll get you. Yes! But especially name these absurd names for our miniseries.

[00:01:41] I did see on the Wikipedia entry people were saying it is yet to be seen if they will correct the name of the miniseries in later episodes. Fans are on it as always on the blankopedia. You're going to have a blank check wiki entry now. That's pretty exciting.

[00:01:55] I mean, you have a real wiki entry but you could get a blank check one. I've got it. Well, I'll be very proud of that. Sure. I think I've got a wookie pd. Oh, that's big.

[00:02:06] We have to look up because we have spent a lot of time on Wikipedia. Yeah, of course you do. I'm not wookie pd. You're an American screenwriter director producer and actor according to wookie pd. Actor, sure. Hey, you were in some movies. I was in a couple.

[00:02:20] You know, you've got some works of note American Pie about a boy golden compass. I'm introducing our guest again. Yeah, the Twilight saga new moon Cinderella linked one citation your IMDB profile. But there you go. You're on wookie pd. Congratulations. No picture though. You could have.

[00:02:38] See the thing I like about the blank check wiki. The fans, the listeners who fill them out. It's not just like regurgitating the info available somewhere else in the area. There's some flavor. And they write specific to your relationship to the show and the things you've established

[00:02:54] within the episode and also Richard Lawson asked to be like for there to be a paragraph break. Richard Lawson is openly gay period paragraph. You know how like a wikipedia that's sort of dramatic announcement in the middle of like personal life or whatever.

[00:03:10] He donated $30,000 to the John Kerry presidential. See, I want a wikipedia entry and then I want like one of those like little announcements at top with like an X-wing where it's like this page is under construction or what do you know

[00:03:23] where there's like the page is bad and they have to have a little like picture of like Yoda being like. Are they like editor wars? Yeah, a lot of controversy which at it was destroyed in the battle of something or other. I should know these.

[00:03:38] You should know these things. You wrote an ad at battle Chris White's our guest today Chris White's you wrote Rogue One. I am one of the writers on Rogue One. Yes, you were square on Rogue One. How credit Tentac Star Wars star. Yeah.

[00:03:52] How deeply did you have to go into like Star Wars studying for that? I was already pretty deep. Yeah. Here's my attitude. I'm like an orthodox Star Wars fan. Okay. All that matters to me or is the first trilogy. Sure. By which I mean. The Phantom Anarchist trilogy.

[00:04:07] Yeah, because the other things just happened late. I don't really care. What I don't care about is the young Anakin Skywalker and his fall from grace. And those later movies, I heard they're not even finished yet. I heard he's still working on. And you know what?

[00:04:18] They just blow up another Death Star. It's repetitive. They blow up two more Death Stars. We already had Starkiller base. Repetitive. Now I'm going backwards in time. You have your own order. You go seven, eight, nine. One, two, three. One, two, three. I've got a reverse machete.

[00:04:36] No, I mean, I thought it was going to be a kind of a nightmare of having to become the ultimate fanboy. But you felt like that stuff was mostly at your fingertips. I felt like what I really wanted was mostly at my fingertips.

[00:04:47] And then there's Pablo Hidalgo, the famous who is there if I had questions. For instance, I had some important questions about kyber crystals. Sure. I forget what they were now, but. They're the things in the lightsabers. They're the things in the lightsabers. Oh my God.

[00:05:02] I don't want people coming after me. I'm sorry. Did you introduce Wills? Rogue One has Wills talk. And I was like, that's the original George Lucas napkin scribbling that he presents to Alan. Now it's like, okay. Sure. I did.

[00:05:21] Yeah, that was me because I wanted to go deep. I wanted it to be the ultimate fan movie. And as much as everybody who's working on it, I think was a deep, deep fan from back in the day.

[00:05:35] So yeah, that kind of stuff was important to me to get in. And I killed everybody. You did. That is my innovation. Was that your big note? That was your big note. That's awesome. Was there a moment there?

[00:05:47] So there was a time when they were like, well maybe we'll keep them around and they can have a Rogue One 2. Rogue One 2? Yeah, there was a time when it seemed as though nobody believed that Disney was going to let the heroes die. Sure.

[00:05:57] And I remember being in the meeting with Alan Horn in which he said, well, I guess, I mean, I guess because of the thing they've got to die. Right. I didn't want to like fist pump at that point. Right, you don't like punch the air.

[00:06:10] It was an internal fist pump. He gave you the permission and then you ran off and you killed them all. I destroyed them. Wow. That's one of the best things about Rogue One is you get to do all these wonderful dramatic deaths. I like it.

[00:06:23] I think it's justified by the situation. Yeah. It would be weird if it was just like final destination and they had like increasingly comical, like they drop a space toaster in the space bath or what. Lightsaber accident. That would be interesting to see one of those.

[00:06:39] Any time you see someone use a light, exactly. You're like, how does no one like cut someone's arm off by mistake? It's dangerous.

[00:06:46] I do want to see, you know, now that there's this question of like what the Star Wars stories are going to be if they're even going to continue within the franchise. I want like instead of like, oh, let's do like sort of side cool, you know, prequel stuff.

[00:07:00] I want them to just go like just pick a movie and remake it in the Star Wars universe and be like it's final destination in Star Wars. Right, right, right. It's while you were sleeping in Star Wars.

[00:07:09] You know, you just pick a good movie like that and you just go pick a couple. You open on Dex's diner. Right, right. Right, you do Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore with Dexter. Yeah.

[00:07:19] You know, like you pick a film you love and you go to Pablo Hidalgo and he'll pick the species. He'll pick the ships that match up with the film. Like she's like a lonely ticket taker on the Coruscant monorail. Right, exactly.

[00:07:32] He's going, oh, okay, Coruscant and it would be a Poggle the Lesser. Let's put him in there. Yeah, of course. You got to get Poggle the Lesser in there. Yeah. Oh man, do we ever meet Poggle the Greater or is that it? It's just Poggle the Lesser.

[00:07:46] Yeah, I think, I mean, my thought was always is it, is he not named, is it not like, oh, he's Poggle Jr. Is it that he has to work up to becoming Poggle the Greater? Is it again off the gray, again off the white?

[00:08:00] He doesn't have a twin or anything. He's also an archduke according to Wikipedia. He's a good guy. Yeah, you think he's good? Poggle the Lesser. I don't know. Doesn't he like enslave people? Stage gladiatorial, you know, combat. He didn't. Okay, fair enough.

[00:08:18] It's the time and place kind of thing. Right, right, right. We have to respect the culture of his planet, the gladiatorial. We can't erase history, okay? We can't say he was important. Archduke Poggle, yeah. He's the click and sound bug.

[00:08:31] Yeah, he's the click and dude who's got kind of like a tendril beer. Right, he's got a walk and stick. He's got a walk and stick. He's a Geonosan. And he was part of the Confederacy. Yeah, he's part of the whatever. The African Confederacy.

[00:08:44] Right, the bad people, separatists, whatever they're called. I don't know if you don't want to talk about this. Oh what? You had your tweet before Rogue One came out. Oh, I think I wrote a take about that. This was like a nightmare for you, right?

[00:08:57] Well, it was a nightmare for me. Apparently it was a nightmare for parents everywhere who suddenly were really upset. But in theory I said that they were Nazis because they bought stormtrooper toys. I didn't know that...

[00:09:11] First of all, it was a joke and like many jokes that one regrets on Twitter. Not a very good one. I remember it being fine. Look, I wrote a take about it. Look, a deleted tweet won't hurt Rogue One. Wow, yes, okay, I've read that.

[00:09:23] I think that in the depths of my depression over that whole thing, I really... But here's the thing, I actually hadn't even meant to say white supremacists. I think I'd meant to say human supremacists. I think you did say human in parentheses maybe?

[00:09:35] Yeah, but I should have just said human. I should have said white supremacists. Maybe you've been a human organization, right? You know what? Get out of this podcast. How dare you, Sully, the good name of stormtroopers. Look, on this podcast people never say things they regret,

[00:09:50] least of all me. They never read SLC. That was a lesson in Twitter, I gotta say. Sure. And that was the last time a film director tweeted something that got them in trouble with Disney. That was the very last time everyone learned from that.

[00:10:03] No, but my question is, are you implying that their biggest concern was parents don't like thinking that the stormtrooper action figures are Nazis? Well, I gotta say actually, first of all, both Lucasfilm and Disney were not too incredibly fussed about it. Of course they were fussed about it.

[00:10:22] Of course they do care what parents think and what fans think, but they weren't... They didn't like smash me with a giant mallet. They were kind of like, hey, Chris. Walt's favorite mallet remained on the wall. Here's why I actually have regrets about that,

[00:10:40] not just in terms of sending a stupid tweet, but just generally speaking. It upset some parents and you can't always expect people to take things in the spirit in which they were intended. Sure. A, and B, let me see. Conceivably, I mean the movie did really well.

[00:10:59] Thank goodness as far as that tweet is concerned, but I wouldn't want to damage the work of a lot of people at work. Sure. So that's why I felt super dumb about it, as well as just having said something in moments thinking like,

[00:11:13] oh, this would be a funny thing to say. But there was such a weird... There was an element of it, at least a sliver of the reaction to it. I found surprising were the people who were acting as if you were applying politics

[00:11:28] to those characters that never existed before. Right, that's the ridiculous idea. The original social group was hyper-political. And all that was intended... I think all of that was intended. I mean actually I think George Lucas might have had the Vietnam War in mind. That was his big touchstone.

[00:11:43] But there's so much sort of visual echoing of the Nazi party in the empire. There's the Newenberg rallies. Absolutely, right. That's like the introduction, the big introduction to General Hux. Yeah, but I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings or get people freaked out.

[00:12:01] And I also certainly didn't mean to receive neo-Nazi hate messages either. That sounds fun. It was interesting. I got to say because I feel like it was a sort of a canary in the coal mine experience for me. That like getting hate tweets. Right, because that's pre-election too.

[00:12:24] It was pre-election. Yeah, right where you're like, hmm... Yeah, this isn't... There's something going on here. Storm cloud building, yeah. What's with all these frog avatars? People like frogs all the time. I mean I like a frog once, you know, cute to look at, I don't know.

[00:12:41] So I just sew into frogs. This is of course our episode on lust caution. Lust comma caution. One of the great comma movies. Yes. I love a comma and a title. This is blank check. Yeah, I said that didn't we? I don't think we did.

[00:12:55] It's a podcast about directors, filmographies, filmmakers with massive success. Earlier on in their career we're giving this series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes projects. Poggles. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. I guess this is actually not a bouncer.

[00:13:12] No. Because it actually did really well in China. Much money in America. Right. Yeah, skimmer. No one got hurt. Skimmer is a good term. That's a good one to add to lexicon. Skimmer check.

[00:13:22] Is that when I deposit my rent check and it's like my bank account goes like $6 and it's like, yes. Got it in just in time. This does definitely feel like a blank check movie though. Sure. I think people don't think about it as much as...

[00:13:39] No, because it wasn't that expensive but still, yes. But it's a cash in terms of it. They never would have let someone who didn't just win an Oscar make a movie like this at this budget. It'd be one thing. Do you know how much it cost?

[00:13:49] It cost $15 million and it was largely funded I think by Chinese and Taiwanese studios. But yeah, right because it's not just that he's making a historical epic and it's not just these making a foreign language film. It's also that it's like incredibly sexually explicit.

[00:14:04] Like all of that, like to secure a budget, that's an Oscar like winner's decision. Yes. The thing I was very surprised by was... And it's hella long. That's the other thing, very long. Sure. I had not seen this movie before. Okay.

[00:14:20] And I remember when it was coming out reading reviews, seeing the trailers. No. I don't know if I just misremembered everything or if I just had a false perception of this film but I thought it was like nine and a half weeks. I thought this was like...

[00:14:31] Yeah, that's true. I think the like... I think the like... The reputation of the movie, you just think it was like two and a half hours straight sex. I guess they kind of doubled down on that in America with like, hey, it got an NC 17 so

[00:14:42] we might as well like lean on that. I think that was their thing like weaponize it because NC 17 has always been such a kiss of death. Which it was. At least make it seem really sexy. Sure, it is. But it's like... Sort of.

[00:14:53] The sex stuff in this movie is... They go hard but it's not a very large percentage of the film also. But even also the sex scenes of these very tense power plays, they're not really... It's not like nine and a half weeks where it's like very...

[00:15:04] It's not a sexy movie. No, no, it's not. And I think... So, I have a theory about this movie which I could say for later but I'm just going to roll out the preview of the theory. Which is that every once in a while...

[00:15:14] For the film, I think Hung Lee is one of the greatest living filmmakers. He's an amazing filmmaker. Okay. And each drink man-woman is maybe one of my top five favorite films of all time.

[00:15:24] But every once in a while he will sort of seem to discover something new and be like, yes, this, this one. And like with the Hulk it's like CGI. This is gonna... I'm gonna use this. And with this one it was like, ah, fucking.

[00:15:36] Like I haven't done this before. Like all my other movies have been... It's true. He's quite a horror... He was scrained. Yes, this one. We're going all out, baby. Going for it. And when he... And it's also like with Billy Lynn's... Long hand, half time long.

[00:15:50] It's like 72 Friends a Second. It's gonna be great. Yeah. And sometimes they bounce. And sometimes they bounce, baby. When you hear about him it is always also right people around him might be like, are you sure about the camera? Like this frame rate thing is crazy.

[00:16:04] And he's like, no, it's gonna be great. Like he's a very driven like positive mind and director in that sense. The thing I keep hearing about him post-life of Pi is that he's like, I never want to do a 2D movie ever again. Wow.

[00:16:16] That like he got so into 3D because everything he said up after life of Pi was for Billy Lynn. That's kind of like depressed me hearing that. Yeah, let's just work in 2Ds, man. Right. But Billy Lynn, that was his big thing was like,

[00:16:28] I want to make a 2D, 3D drama. And he was like developing a couple things before Billy Lynn went and all of them were 3D. Wow. Like he wanted to do a Muhammad Ali George Foreman movie that was gonna be in 3D. I remember that.

[00:16:41] And that got shut down because I think the budget was getting too high. Sure. There was like a bunch of stuff like that. Boxing movies don't really play in the same way they used to. Yeah. He definitely does seem to, you know,

[00:16:51] one of the reasons we picked him why we think he's so interesting is because there's just such a weird variety of stuff in his filmography. I think because he constantly needs to find some new shiny toy,

[00:17:00] whether it's thematic or whether it's like genre or technological or whatever it is. I think that's very apt. He does seem really excited by the idea of sex in this movie. Not like a horny way, but like 100 hours of sex scenes were shot. That's insane.

[00:17:16] Like are they shot for 100 hours? And like we, I read an interview with him where he was like, it was very punishing and difficult work. Like he doesn't talk about it like, you know, it was really like fun to dig into this. He was like, it's very hard.

[00:17:26] We had to work very hard. He doesn't seem like kind of filmmaker who would enjoy directing sex scenes. No, I mean, nothing in his past filmography really suggests that.

[00:17:33] I mean, every indication is that he's like a total gentleman and like not a kind of a James Cameron, you know, like a brow beater. Sure. And so, I mean, this is to put the director's hat on like to direct. I wouldn't want to direct sex scenes.

[00:17:51] One of my worst experiences just personally as a director was like a topless scene in American Pie. I was about to say, like, I was going through the whole... You made like a totally sex obscenity. You broke onto the scene, like essentially like reinventing a genre.

[00:18:11] But that kind of wasn't, I mean, that was like my brother and I weren't dying to do a sex comedy. It's like you direct the first movie that you get off. I mean, I really loved the script and Adam Hurst did great work and it was super fun.

[00:18:24] And it probably the best time I've ever had making a movie, but that's not me. And like to just like, you know, just my brother and I trying to direct like a topless scene is just so the saddest thing you can imagine.

[00:18:37] Like, okay, no, you take off your clothes because we're so embarrassed. I think that's like a thing that people who haven't spent time on set, like don't understand is how embarrassing it is even to just do anything on camera. Yeah, right.

[00:18:54] Right. So then you add on like, okay, any sort of emotional vulnerability gets really uncomfortable. Like anytime you're on set with like an emotional scene where someone's like crying, all the guys like holding the boom poles just look uncomfortable. Yeah, of course.

[00:19:07] You know, they're like, I shouldn't be here. This feels like kind of private. Right. And I would never bid like, you know, like nudity and stuff like that. And then beyond that until like actually like replicating sex. Like that's the sex in this movie looks really like acrobatic.

[00:19:23] It's very physical. It's very physical. And like it doesn't. I mean, that's what's interesting about this and feels like the thing that he kind of landed on was like, I want to make sex that actually looks like sex because watching the love scenes in this movie.

[00:19:40] You're like, oh, most sex in movies looks really fake. Like it kind of underlines how bullshitty it is. There's nothing, there's nothing kind of soft. Right. Core about this. Although I do think that like there's some really strange bodily contours. Yes. They go for it.

[00:19:56] That I don't know. I've never considered before. Yeah. When you got totally lung, you know, you gotta fold them like a pretzel. I don't know. I started having to direct that and being like, no, 15 degrees higher with the leg. No, no, the other leg.

[00:20:11] I think he's like that because I remember speaking to Eric Bona once about shooting the Hulk and he you guys have pointed out that he's very intent on body language and sort of getting that right.

[00:20:21] But like the position of the head, the way that your head is tilted like from one degree to the next is very, very important. Well, that's why the hundred hours then kind of make sense. You make sense. I think that's why I also go the movies like 240.

[00:20:34] And I'd say there may be five minutes of sex scene six. Yeah, certainly it's mostly not sex. Right. That is true. Right. It's not even like, I mean, it's a little bit like blue is the warmest color. Those sex scenes are very long though.

[00:20:48] But there's kind of like the one big section. You're longer than X. And then it's a lot more just emotional, you know, dating content. A 13 year old kid watching this on HBO in the old days. Right. You'd be like avoiding it out a lot.

[00:21:03] You learn a lot about Shanghai. I guess there was a Japanese puppet government. I had no idea, right? This is one of those movies that would have like identified cinephiles at a young age

[00:21:15] because all the 13 year old boys would say up to watch it and then like one out of every like a thousand would go like, wait a second, but the camera angles are really interesting. Really building very slowly like to like an emotional climate.

[00:21:26] I'm not seeing butts, but the mise-en-scene is incredible. But that's the part where this movie gets so blank checky is that like with this script and this story, right? You could have seen them go like, so do you think you could get it in a PG-13

[00:21:41] if we're clever about how we do the sex scenes? Right. Like this boy doesn't even necessarily need to be R. Right. But he, to him that was paramount importance. 100% if we're going to do it, the sex scenes have to be visceral.

[00:21:51] I guarantee you though, there were heated discussions between the MPAA and the studio where it's like, well what if we took some thrusts out? Yeah. Not that shot. It is interesting how thrust, you read about that. They really, they're like two thrusts, not five.

[00:22:07] Then you shall have your R. We had, I think we cut two pie thrusts as the last thing to get down to R on American Pie. You got that. And there were multiple pie situations, right? Remember there was like a harder pie edit.

[00:22:21] There's a more or less caution kind of pie version that we didn't use. But by the way, while we're having fun here, I want to say also the sex is problematic in this.

[00:22:32] I want to be the first to use that word ahead of anybody else because actually I was kind of distressed at the sexual politics of this. It's a little horrifying. I don't think it ages well. I mean it's more horrifying that she, that this becomes an emotional relationship.

[00:22:49] But I don't think that's unintentional. Like, unfortunately, you know, or not unfortunately, but I do think that's part of the larger point he's making. It's not like this is not a love story exactly. No. It is. It's a very complicated affair they're having.

[00:23:03] What it reminded me of was that, I think some scene, I think I said, is it in any hole? I forget which, but there's like, there's some scene where it's like a Hollywood party and a guy saying like, it's a movie about a guy who screws so good.

[00:23:14] And Woody Young goes, screw so good. What are you talking about? You know, and it sort of felt like that. Like there was this kind of thing that I don't buy about it where it's like, yeah, she's getting swept up in a web of sensuality.

[00:23:27] And it doesn't really matter that the guy is clearly sadistic and frankly. No, what are you going to say? He's evil. Yeah, I agree with that. Well, certainly by the end of the film, that's crystal clear.

[00:23:38] But the arc kind of goes that at the beginning, not to jump into like the meat of the movie, but at the beginning, the sex is purely like violent and terrifying. And it is fully abusive with no gray hair. Yeah.

[00:23:54] And there's the point where it starts to feel a little bit more consensual. Sure. And he's softening slightly also outside of the bedroom anyway, like, you know, the ring and all that. Right. But that's also tied to the fact that she seems to be enjoying it more. Sure.

[00:24:09] So you're saying that the complication comes from the fact that it's like, she starts falling for this evil guy once the sex becomes enjoyable. Yeah. And I also, I'm not buying what they're selling, I got to say. Yeah.

[00:24:22] This is sort of a trope that I think Game of Thrones got in trouble with before because it's so fanboy intensive. They're like, oh, what are you going to do? It's like where Daenerys is raped at the beginning by what's his face. Jason Mimoa guy. Yes. Aquaman himself.

[00:24:35] Yes. She marries Aquaman king of the season. And then she eventually loves him and I'm like, I don't know, man. Yeah. I don't know about the viability of that. It's funny.

[00:24:43] In the book, that's also not how it goes, which is interesting that the TV series dials it up. That she loves him eventually? No, no, no. That he rapes her. That doesn't happen in the book.

[00:24:53] Their first sexual encounter, he first sort of tries to kind of like mount her or whatever. And she sort of turns them around. No, no. Let me show you. Yeah. And new way.

[00:25:02] And I think the TV show is like we need to like push the brutality of this because like we want it to feel like she is really like stuck in this horrible situation. But that's just taking with her and makes over and over again.

[00:25:14] As a trope, the sort of the journey from kind of abusive sex to obsessive love is like I just don't. I think so probably you would go into this movie thing like Tony Lung is fucking, you know, so incredibly charismatic. Sure, yeah. You can understand it.

[00:25:35] It's fascinating that he casts him in this role that is so inhuman and evil. Like that he is one of the most charming actors alive and one of the most handsome actors alive. No, I have that thing too. Like I have such problems with Fifty Shades of Grey.

[00:25:51] And I've not seen those. I try to engage with it a little bit just because it feels like enough of a cultural thing that I want to know what it is. And I'm constantly checking myself and going like, is this my puritanical whatever?

[00:26:02] Is this me being a guy? Like where's my hang up here? But there is something about the fact that the relationship does feel straight up abusive to me. It doesn't. I think that's because Fifty Shades of Grey is poorly written.

[00:26:17] I do not be mean but I do think like two Fifty Shades. I mean, but like I do think the core problem there is that Mr. Grey or whatever, like they're trying to be like the movie is not actually about a guy who's like very into BDSM.

[00:26:30] It's about like a very damaged man, right? Cause she's always like finding like trauma in his childhood and like that's like the crux of every movie where it's like, oh, it turns out this. And so the movie is like, and that's why he does this stuff.

[00:26:41] And then you're like, oh, so he's just like a traumatized person who does abusive things rather than like, oh, you know, he likes to have a contract that you sign and you negotiate and whatever.

[00:26:51] And also that it's poorly written in a way where the character's behavior is totally inconsistent. It also doesn't make any sense. Like she works in an hardware store. I don't understand any of this stuff.

[00:26:59] It's all dressed up with like a lot of money and Jamie Dornan being sexy. Right. And the apartment and the private plans. It's also, you know, I mean, can I call bullshit on a major aspect of this franchise? The Shades? There's only one shade of gray.

[00:27:14] Wait a second. Does she works in the paid store? Multiple shades. I don't know about that. Doesn't she work at like a hardware store in the first one? Yeah, she does because he comes by to buy rope. You know, this is how I spent my birthday.

[00:27:28] I went to see 50 Shades of Gray on my birthday. Like the first one? Yeah. I saw an IMAX. It was a down. You saw an IMAX? You see it on your own? Like was it? I saw it with like four people. What?

[00:27:39] Were you like excited to do this? I was just like, fuck it. You were like, wait, this is, but you know, wake again? Like we're all going to die. That's what it kind of felt like. That's what it kind of felt like. Yeah.

[00:27:53] Wait, I want to pull back. Sure. Okay. We're talking about less caution. Correct. Sorry. Chris, for some insane reason you like our podcast. We can get into that if we want to. I mean, I don't know.

[00:28:05] We didn't know you were listening and then you tweeted about the Starship Troopers episode. Indeed. That's a work of genius actually. That's a great moment. That's great. And well, yeah, here's the thing is that I love your podcast because amongst other reasons,

[00:28:23] there was a genuine enthusiasm for film and I have been having this kind of crisis of meaning with films. And it made me want to approach things. Sounds like you might be working Hollywood. Man, they're really hard to make and bad films are hard to make.

[00:28:42] And I don't know. So from time to time you think like, and also if you make them, you can no longer really watch them in the same way. I'm sure you experienced this to Griffin where it's like, you know, this shot and that shot.

[00:28:58] Look at that extra doing that. And so I've started to go a bit crazy on the question of like, why films? And this sort of started to renew my faith. That's the highest we could possibly get.

[00:29:15] But so then you're chatting and where you're saying, well, I'm going to be in town. And we were like, sort of looking at our schedule, Griffin and I are conferring. We're like, oh, it's not a lot of stuff we don't have a guest already expressed interest.

[00:29:28] How do you feel about a lust caution Mary pass and you responded with you've used the score as your temp track or temp score to the hell out of that score, which I did not expect you to say. No. Well, I think Alexandra Day plot. Yes.

[00:29:44] He is my homie. We've done four movies together now because we just finished working on the fourth movie and was it was a golden compass when you guys first gold. Yes. Then the Twilight saga, Colin New Moon and then a better life.

[00:30:04] And now we just did Operation finale. And so I love his stuff. Needless to say, and I think he is fantastic. And I actually think less caution is one. It might be my favorite. It's an underrated score. I feel like he's amazing and he's the kind of composer.

[00:30:21] He works in such bulk like you'll have like six scores a year and you don't know how he does it. So it can be hard to sort of like find the gems sometimes. I think, yeah, his underappreciated was people know the ones that sort of got

[00:30:33] you know, I'll squeeze in whatnot. I see me less caution painted veil is pretty. Paint a great score. Good movie. Great score. Yeah. But lost cause I think actually the not having because I hadn't seen I agreed to this. I haven't seen the film of the temp connection.

[00:30:50] Yeah. And and actually I don't think that it is cut particularly well into the movie. That is to say, I don't think it gets its day in court. Sure. In the way that like if you're understated in the movie. Yeah.

[00:31:03] If you're doing temp, you get to hear the whole track and then you're like, oh, we're going to use this bit here and you hear it over and over and over again. So these themes are really in my mind. There's some of these beautiful lush melodies.

[00:31:12] So did you, you know that he's your friend, your collaborator? Do you go? Let me pick another one of his scores. So I have something to cut to is that how you landed on that one? Well, when, when, when you're temping during editing, obviously,

[00:31:28] you know, the scoring's going to come much later and sometimes maybe I've sort of shitty since synthesized versions of what you might use during the line. But mostly so you're trying to get what suits the movie but

[00:31:40] also to avoid template, which is like when you fall in love with something that you've put in. And yeah. And ideally you're, you're temping with the composer, work of the composer that you're, that makes sense. So because then they're not thrown because they're also hearing the temp.

[00:31:56] Actually, Alexandra, I think said to me that he would rather not have any temp music at all in the movie that he sees, but that isn't possible for me to do. Yeah. I need to think about it. Or else it just doesn't make like the movie just doesn't

[00:32:08] seem like a movie. I mean some, some sequences are like only supported by music. I mean like certain kinds of, you know, montage pieces or certain kinds of shots. You know we're going to have music. And so I think sometimes maybe we send Alexandra a version

[00:32:23] without music, but at least he's familiar with what he was going for and a point in the past. Right. I was, so you said that I went, oh man, what a funny coincidence. Then I watched this movie last night and I realized the

[00:32:38] score for this movie is what my, my old acting teacher used to use in class. Wow. To like hype you up. To like lock us in to like go deep. Like she would like play this track and I'll like guide us

[00:32:50] through her thing where I wouldn't think about their mother and start crying. Wow. So I have this almost like. You do a very strange thing. The weirdest fucking thing that makes no sense. Right. Yeah. And this is Elizabeth Kemp who passed away last year

[00:33:03] I've talked about was like the one acting teacher I started working for. She was like a very hippie, dippy lady who did all this stuff that when it was described to me I was like, I don't want to fucking do that. No. And then I was like.

[00:33:18] You just described to me sounds like my worst nightmare. It was truly like yoga mat in the floor of a church in Harlem where she like played the last caution score and talked about a green light going into your heart and thinking about your parents.

[00:33:30] And I was like, this is so dumb. And then 90 seconds later I was balling and then I gave the best performance of my life. I kind of like that. I would like to do that part. I wouldn't like to do stuff in front of other.

[00:33:40] Like this seems like more like the meditation class. Yeah. Yeah. Privately, I think it might be a rewarding experience doing that from another person is I would literally like wake up in a cold sweat as a that would be a nightmare.

[00:33:52] Well, that part of it was everyone lying on the floor with their eyes. Sure. You had the self-awareness. You silently crying. Right. There's the self-consciousness of knowing you're around other people. But the thing I liked about that class was it wasn't like, OK, and we prepared this scene

[00:34:04] and we're going to perform it for you. Right. Like a lot of it was the meditative stuff and the just sort of getting out of your head, getting out of your sort of physical tension sort of stuff. And then like at the end people would come up

[00:34:15] and do what they were working on, but she didn't let people do like the material by and large. Huh. So what an actor is like, what actress do is amazing. I got to say. It's so stupid. It's really strange.

[00:34:27] I mean, I suppose you could look at a stupid. Like if you look at one fact, look at it from one angle. Yes, it's stupid. But another angle is like this weird ritual of like channeling voices. Yeah. I like love doing it and I love watching it

[00:34:42] and I feel dumb all the time if that makes any sense. Right. Sure. Like it just feels like such a weird like, I can't be doing this right. Because some the thing that's so strange about it is like whatever anyone tells you doesn't really

[00:34:56] matter because you have to figure out how you work. Like your brain doesn't make sense to anyone else. Your body doesn't make sense to anyone else. You have to figure out your voice and all that sort of stuff.

[00:35:06] I liked her a lot as a teacher because she would just play less caution and let people tap into their own thing. Right. Nothing like this is the way you do it. But I know Valerie Curry, who passed on Future Guests, who plays my sister on the show.

[00:35:20] We were talking about all the tricks we have to use when we're doing like crying scenes. And something like the tick, we work on like a TV schedule. So we have to do... You gotta cry right now. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, it's sudden.

[00:35:32] Oh, we changed the scene order. We're doing this now. We have to do like, you know, seven or eight pages a day. And sometimes it's like a bunch of stunt stuff and then a comedy scene and then like an emotional scene. Right.

[00:35:43] And it's literally just the stuff of like, oh, I have a crying scene coming up. Okay. Let me find the biggest light on set and just stare into it for three minutes until they call action. Wow, that's how he went blood. Right.

[00:35:53] So then just the second I start, I'm teary-eyed and hopefully I can run from there or whatever it is. In theory, you're priming the pump. I mean, it's not just fakery, right? Right. Because you're trying to access, like once you start crying,

[00:36:02] you actually, the emotions presumably follow sometimes. Right. But it's a combination of things. Like sometimes you just think about what the scene is and that gets you there. Sometimes you're like, oh, fuck, I gotta think about my dad. Sometimes it's like physically punishing yourself.

[00:36:14] My dad has got a done. Yeah. Damn it. Whatever it is, but it's like, you're just... Again, very strange for you. So weird. You're so weird. Yeah. And it's like... You can understand why many actors are kind of cuckoo because they have to do these things. Yeah.

[00:36:26] They suddenly have to do this emotional sprint and then it's like, okay, thanks. Now we're gonna reset the lights. I mean, I do sympathize. It's so bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have done a little bit of acting, so I feel like you have that sort of knowledge

[00:36:41] of at least knowing how weird it feels to be in that position. Only enough to know how weird and uncomfortable it is. Which I think makes a big difference. Like with the people I've worked with, the ones who just are like,

[00:36:50] I've done that for five seconds and I hated it. Right. I get it. Yeah. I'm with you. I feel a lot more secure. But something like, not to run things right back on topic, but like I look at the sex scenes and like Tasha

[00:37:02] and I go like, how could you ever feel comfortable doing that? Right. Maybe that's the hundred hours is like for two hours it was deeply, deeply uncomfortable. Right. And then like about three hours in they're sweaty, they're angry and then you get there. There you are. Yeah.

[00:37:17] But even so, like to even on a close set, you still got a bunch of people watching you doing technical things while you're supposed to be, you know, doing. And then getting notes on that is just like, people going like, hey, look, it's actually better for sound

[00:37:33] if you don't hit his back. Yeah. It's like, you know, when you bite his nose. Yeah. If you could just angle out a little bit because otherwise we're getting shadow. There's this Michael Douglas quote I bring up.

[00:37:46] I think I've brought it up on the podcast before where he says like it's the worst thing to do because everyone watching has probably had sex and like is like thinking like this is bullshit. Yeah.

[00:37:57] And he says like dying is his favorite thing to do because no one has ever died. So they're not going to be like, he's dying wrong. Like and that's it just I read that quote now it's like, you've done so many.

[00:38:06] He is like Michael Douglas is like the sexenious actor there is. And it also is like he was doing the most like over crank the most intense like fatal attraction basic instinct. But then you think about like those things are all about

[00:38:21] like the angles and the editing rhythms. And if you're actually looking at it like as a person on set and they're both wearing like flesh colored underwear very strange and they're like trying to make it look right on camera, it would look so unlike human sex. Right. Yeah.

[00:38:35] That's like a thing in this movie is it's like a lot of full body shots. Yeah, that's true for me what like makes it kind of startling is that the actual awkwardness of their bodies together that because you're not just getting like clipped angle.

[00:38:49] They're not just looking for beautiful pictures as right. It's like the herky jerky movements feel, you know, and this is a man who can make beautiful pictures. You can. Yeah. So this movie I started up in a real immediately go like,

[00:39:04] oh, I guess I have no idea what the fuck this is. Whatever notion I had of what this movie was, I guess is 100% wrong. Why are all these people talking? Yeah, it's like 10 minutes of Mahjong at the beginning. Yeah, that's true.

[00:39:15] This movie is that's the most angrily thing about this movie. The Mahjong. I will say when I was watching it, I was like, I wish I understood the rules of Mahjong because there's so much better. It seems like there's a lot going on like there's

[00:39:28] that thing where she gets the red tile and everyone's like, whoa, is that that big a deal? It's just like Casino Royale. When I got on the edge of my seat if I knew. But yes, no, but that felt like Ang Lee's like favorite thing

[00:39:41] is those charged Mahjong scenes where it's all chat and all small talk among the ladies. The wives who really kind of secretly hold the power. Right. Joan Chen holding court. Like that's some good shit. That stuff is great actually. I do like the Mahjong scenes.

[00:39:55] You know what should have been all Mahjong? It's actually in some ways a very old fashioned movie because it starts in this kind of thing and there's like four years earlier. And it feels very traditional in that regard. It feels very 40 something.

[00:40:07] I was going to say that media res opening feels very like 40s, 50s Hollywood. And then you're in let's put on a show. You know, it's like, you know, little rascals all of a sudden where they're like, oh, here we are in Hong Kong. Let's all right.

[00:40:21] Actually there's a brief interlude right where they're on the road somewhere in China. We know that they're refugees heading to Hong Kong. They're going to university in Hong Kong. The sign of Japanese war. So it's like, you know, Japan and China are China still this

[00:40:35] like very unstable place. Hong Kong is like one of the bargaining chips almost like one of these sort of colonial outposts that's different from the mainland China. But that's the thing casting all these Hong Kong actors. I carry on.

[00:40:48] No, that's the thing that feels very classical to me is like a trope that's still used today. Story telling wise is the start media res with a crazy crazy situation. Right. And then they're like, I bet you're wondering how I got myself into the situation.

[00:41:01] The thing that feels very 40s, 50s Hollywood is start with something that seems kind of innocuous live in it for a period of time and then jump back. Right. The first 10 minutes you're just like, I don't know. Yeah.

[00:41:14] The first time when it's is mahjong and then like a phone call and you're like, oh, there's Mr. Yee. Oh, what's going on? But then Liang shows up and you're like, is this the meeting? Have they already met? Like it's a little like the Carol opening. Sure. Yes.

[00:41:28] That's right. I forgot Carol has that opening right and that's basically in the end dress. Right. Like, you know, finale when the film cuts four years earlier, things are more dramatic. Yes. Like it's not like they're going back to a simpler time. Yeah.

[00:41:41] I wonder if you need the beginning. I mean, I saw this film in theaters when it was 2007 and then had not seen it. And when this movie started, I was like watching and like, I swear there's all this stuff with the students.

[00:41:52] Like I'd like checking the Wikipedia be like, wait a second and then realize I forgot about this sort of opening. It's kind of like one of those editorial choices you make where you're like, well, what have we sort of framed it with the scene that they come

[00:42:03] to later? But usually when you frame it that way, there's like something like you said something like exciting. Like holy shit. Right. Because we're going to foreground all the action to show, but instead they foreground the mahjong. Right. And you're like, we got to get some mahjong

[00:42:18] in earlier. Otherwise how are people going to know, you know, that's the strength of our movie? Yeah. It's all about the tiles. They had to lead. I mean, the big selling point in this movie was tits and mahjong. That's a good thing.

[00:42:29] It should have been called Las Mahjong. Las Mahjong. All right. So we've got this university student played by Tang Wei. And you know this movie stars the two stars of Black Hat, right? I do know that. Yeah. And there's siblings in Black Hat. That's right. They are. Right.

[00:42:46] Because she's Chris Hemsworth's love interest in Black Hat. Have you seen Black Hat? No, I've not seen Black Hat. You can. Black Hat's good. Try to track down that director's cut that has only played on FX though. Yeah. I still haven't seen that. That's a good. It's crazy.

[00:42:59] He moves a major plot event like an hour earlier in the movie and then suddenly the movie makes sense. Like that movie is the opposite of that where he took a thing that's supposed to happen at the end of act two and made it the cold open. Yeah.

[00:43:12] But just changed the chronology of the event. Like nothing else is. Oh, he didn't. It was not a flash. It's not a flash. So the movie doesn't totally make sense. Yeah. And then he puts it. He puts it. He puts it. He's done it. Anyway.

[00:43:26] He's a weird guy. I mean, look, Chris, take it from us. You got to wear that hat. Chris, you should go on the DJ podcast and be interviewed by Michael Mann because that is the most incredible thing in my entire life is the episode where he interviews Ridley

[00:43:38] Scott. Oh yeah. And he's just like rich people are really interesting. And Ridley Scott's like, was there a question? He's like, I don't know. It's like that for an hour. Yeah. It's every time Michael Mann takes the mic it's eight minutes and it doesn't end with the question.

[00:43:56] I guess there isn't a question. I just wanted to say, I thought it was well made. Doesn't care to, you know, he's not going to dig him out of that. No, no, he'll be like, what? I mean Ridley Scott is also gravel voice making himself.

[00:44:09] That's like the gravel cast. It wasn't really. I was like, I could listen to these two talk every week just about like their haircuts or like, you know, the ravens or whatever. I don't know any old crap. I think Tong Wei, I started to know was fantastic.

[00:44:23] I think she is so good in this movie. She was, I'm looking like she was on note. Like, you know, this is her first role and it was a hyped thing of like, you know, only picked her. She's going to be a big deal. She makes this movie.

[00:44:37] She gets blacklisted by the Chinese film industry for like four years. Oh, was she? Yeah. 100% black. She's back now though and she is actually pretty big. She actually had a rebound but yeah, she was basically, I think given, it's almost like sports.

[00:44:49] She was like given like a two year ban. Like it was like we just can't make movies with you. Right, like as you made this explicit movie, like how shocking. Tony Lung, no ban. No, of course not. But he is not from Mainland.

[00:45:01] He works in the Hong Kong industry which is more, you know, a Lucy Goosey. Also come on, he's a guy. He's a guy. He's a good undo. He also is and was a pop star, right? Tony Lung? He has a music career as well.

[00:45:16] Yeah, yeah, he's done music. I don't think of him as like... Was he an actor first? Because Lee Hong Wong who plays... He's like a big pop star. Who's the other half of the blackhead siblings. Yes, I'm trying to... Is a pop star?

[00:45:30] Yes, he's like a pop star first. Tony Lung, I know I'm right. He had boyish looks. Did Tony Lung just do like a crooner album or two based upon... Like he might have pulled a Downey Jr.? Yeah, Downey Jr. He was named one of TVB.

[00:45:45] TVB is a television channel. One of TVB's five tigers, AKA the five hot young stars in the 80s, along with Andy Lau and Felix Wong, like these other... And then he was in something called Police Cadet, which sounds good. Played a lot of policemen.

[00:46:02] But you know, yeah, he's done some singing. I do feel like that's a thing in China that every movie star needs to have at least one album. Yeah. That I kind of wish was enforced here in the States. Also very old fashioned, I think.

[00:46:13] The only people doing it... This sort of like triple threat kind of idea. Disney Channel kind of does that. Right. Where they're like singing, dancing, acting. It would kind of be nice if it happened with adult actors. Yes. If they like force Paul Geomotti to do an album

[00:46:25] every time he did a movie. Joe Pesci has an album. Yes. Because Joe Pesci discovered Frankie Valley, right? Yes. Wasn't he their manager? Someone plays Joe Pesci in Jersey Boys, which is the weirdest thing. Yeah. Someone... Joe Pesci was just a guy who worked

[00:46:42] in like the Jersey Club scene. And then like Scorsese likes him. He was like a bouncer. Yeah. He put out a rap album though. He did, that's true. That was a little... It was more in the Home Alone era, right? Yep.

[00:46:54] So you think every star should also have to do a novelty rap album? Correct. I just... For Tony Long, I feel like this is a shocking role for him though. Because he's like the handsome... He's a leading man. ...of Hong Kong cinema. He'll play cuties.

[00:47:06] He'll play love interests. He'll play like heroic cops. But this is like such a villainous role. It's like casting Tom Hanks in this type of role. Yeah. God, something interesting about this is like... So eventually these kids are putting on a show. Yes they are.

[00:47:23] Decide to become spies and assassinate the Tony Long character who is a collaborator. Right. I love that though that they get into revolutionary... Theater. ...the movement through the revolutionary theater. Right. People see how taken everyone is by her like... She's a great performer. ...political speeches.

[00:47:38] They go like we gotta weaponize this and we gotta use it. Yeah. But the interesting thing to me is that the only murder on camera that you see is done by the people who we sympathize with. Like solidly brutal. Holy crap, they're stabbing this guy to death.

[00:47:54] Whereas Tony Long, we know he's doing terrible things but only describes them. Yes. He describes the most horrific things. Yeah, he does. But I wondered what was the reasoning behind that and perhaps it's just sort of give a visceral sense of violence

[00:48:09] but also that Tony Long somehow is immune from it in terms of how we're supposed to regard him. So much of his power is wrapped up in his sort of like how well dressed he is, how sophisticated he is. Right.

[00:48:20] And I think that is like you never see him do anything and like that's maybe part of just the horror of collaboration where it's like well all I'm doing is signing papers. Like hey look you can forgive me like once the...

[00:48:32] But he's also describing people with their brains out of their head. Not nice. Yeah, he's clearly doing some gnarly stuff. You're right the only violence scene is that scene that sort of ends the first act of the movie. Which is like horrifying.

[00:48:44] Which is I think really well done. It's one of the most like there's that bit where he like stabs himself in the hand by mistake. Like it's so clumsy and nasty and it feels like so what a murder should feel like, you know, realistically.

[00:48:58] Because when they first say to Tang Wei, when they try to give her the pitch of like look I know we just had that good play. What if we start killing people? Right, it is an escalation. Opening night was a hit. Why don't we start murdering?

[00:49:08] And she's like I don't know how to... I got no experience. Well beyond that they're like you should seduce them and she's like I am a virgin though. Like there's also that hanging up right. You're talking about two things I got no experience with. Murder and sex.

[00:49:20] But they keep on saying this whole kind of thing of look when you think about those people, what they've done when you get in the room with them you'll know how to kill them. They remain emotionally driven the entire film.

[00:49:32] Right, and I think that's kind of as much as and I'm still sort of trying to wrap my head around the movie as much as I can sort of parse the point of the sexuality and what's being said by that relationship

[00:49:46] it's that she never stops existing on an emotional level. She always remains a sort of human person. Right, but I think a lot of the movie especially the brutal sex scenes later like that's you know he... The woman's role in this revolutionary movement is even more inhuman.

[00:50:02] Like you know the things they're doing to her are even more like horrifying in a way. Oh 100% but she is never able to sort of turn it off. No, for sure. She's always feeling everything. Yeah, she can't just like...

[00:50:11] And so even though this relationship with him is abusive she's in it deep enough that she starts having whether it's a Stockholm syndrome or whatever it is whatever sort of transitive feelings for him and he treats everything like it's just a fucking job.

[00:50:26] You know he's able to very clinically and calmly describe what he's done until the end and kind of keep his hands clean of it at least emotionally. Right, yeah and I think in theory she is getting sort of corrupted by it

[00:50:41] or you know it's insinuating it's over there. There's this weird scene too where old woo the spy master for the resistance is like talking about how the spy has to sort of just never be emotional or involved in any way.

[00:50:57] You know I would sit down with this guy in spite of the fact that he killed my wife and two children and then she starts talking about sex and he's like, no go away can't deal with it. To me that didn't quite read

[00:51:09] where I was like, geez old woo come on man. But right but they can't... And like she's sort of breaking hearts like inadvertently like within the resistance cell because Wang Lee-Hom's character is so in love with her and like won't say anything about it.

[00:51:26] And then she's forced to sleep with this other guy. Sleeping with the other dweeb just to sort of get some experience in the bedroom. There is something interesting in terms of how it fits into his whole filmography though because he so often is interested in emotional repression.

[00:51:41] This is a character who's like superpower and her kryptonite is her emotional access. You know it's like they go, oh you should be in the play and she's like I'm not an actress and they put her on stage and she starts crying and screaming.

[00:51:54] And they're like, wait that's powerful you can make people fall in love with you. And she's like I don't know love, I don't know murder. And then they like the rowing the deed. And then she just walks into her room and everyone's like magnetically drawn to her.

[00:52:06] There's that scene after she while she's still having sex with the student when she's just... You see her lying in bed, she's covered the sheet and then she sort of flings off the sheets and like just walks up to the window

[00:52:16] and the scene has no purpose apart from that. Like you know and like we just cut to her then her she's dressed and like and it does feel like Ang Lee's like this isn't awakening for her as like brutal as it is.

[00:52:28] There is independence here that is like a little seductive right? Like even though it's not gonna... Right, because they sell her on this idea she tells them that she's a virgin and they say look there's only one guy in our group has any sexual experience

[00:52:42] and she's like with whores. And it's like look we don't got you know beggars can't be choosers. She comes in like takes a final swig out of the bottle and it's like so depressing. It's quite depressing. The whole situation she looks so physically uncomfortable. Sure.

[00:52:58] It's so unromantic but then you see them sleep together a number of times after that and she starts to sort of gain control over the thing at least in the sense of her being like let's just get this over with. Sure, you know...

[00:53:10] He says like you're getting the hang of it and she's like shut up. Shut up, just finish. I think to me what it lacks for her character is some sense of where she starts. That's true. She does just kind of like get dropped into the movie. Right, yeah.

[00:53:24] She's like a mousy girl who they like activate and then she becomes like the center of a hurricane. What we know about her is that her father has remarried and he's in London now and doesn't want her to come over

[00:53:36] or can't be bothered to sort of get her over to London. And this would be clear again like Japan is invading China like there's this collaboration government that's what they're resisting. There's like a Chinese nationalist movement is what they're part of. Which is eventually going to be

[00:53:54] what retreats to Taiwan actually. Like what seeds Taiwan because they flee the communists. Later... But she starts seducing him, infiltrates the Mahjong game. Things get really heated. A couple big Mahjong set pieces. And then there's this moment when she comes back reports to them.

[00:54:14] Oh, they're leaving. They're moving. We're fucked. We miss our window. And then his... Is it his driver? Like who tips him off? The guy who comes back where they have to murder. Oh, you know, it's... Oh yeah, good point. It's the contact who was from the same village

[00:54:32] as when he's from the same... He's from... But he works with Mr. Yi. He might be the driver. I forget what his role is. And he's kind of... He's potentially blackmailing them. Or he's like, hey, I could work with you guys. Yeah, he doesn't seem...

[00:54:48] He's not saying for sure you guys are in trouble. Because that would be weird if he wouldn't come to them. He says, hey, I'm from the same village. You think I don't want liberation? Right, and then they just stab him to death. Right, really... Really clumsily.

[00:55:04] Well, because it's for real now. This shit is scary and hard and it's very violent. And also, they kind of think like, oh, it's a movie, you just stab the guy and he's down. Right, because they do the very dramatic stab. And he's like, ah!

[00:55:18] And then it's like, he's still there. They're like looking downstairs. Right? He's still alive. He falls down the stairs. It's not funny, but there is that reality of... That's a very upsetting line of dialogue where you know somebody could hear you and you're saying he's still alive.

[00:55:36] It reminded me of that moment in Casino where, back to Joe Pesci again where Joe Pesci says he's still alive about his brother who's been beaten with an aluminum baseball bat. Yeah. And he's basically saying kill him please. Yeah, that... Because it's that thing of like...

[00:55:52] Okay, so the one guy makes this knee-jerk decision, right? Yeah. Okay, this is what we gotta do, we gotta kill him. Stab him, thinks that's it. That's done. I did the scariest thing I'm ever gonna have to do. And then the more they realize that this guy

[00:56:04] is the one guy that's been beaten tonight for Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the more everyone else has to like jump in and keep taking turns. The deeper they're in, there's no way they get out of this now. There's no way this guy survives.

[00:56:18] So someone has to deliver the death blow and everyone just keeps on taking their shot and she's out in the balcony the whole time. She wasn't even in the room. She remains innocent of the whole thing. Well, because it's like that's not the woman's business.

[00:56:30] That's the man's business, right? No, I'm not saying the movie's second thing. They think that. But she's the one person who's not like sort of following this like motley crew of murderers. They finally snap the guys in the act. It's like so deeply upsetting.

[00:56:46] And then the movie is like end of act one. Intermission, if someone comes out with like Jolly Ranchers and Sour Patch Kids they're like, how is everyone liking the movie? And everyone's like, I thought it was gonna be sexy. Oh really? Oh, I'm sorry.

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[00:59:16] Or as Tony Montano said Say hello to your little friend. Thank you, Ben. Did you just come up with that? It's in the copy. Oh really? That's like movie stuff. Talk about sexy. Oh boy. See that's like a very

[00:59:33] like at this point you go like what the f- is this movie? For sure. And then it jumps four years later. Yeah, back to Shanghai. I guess that's maybe why he has that at the beginning because then when it makes that jump

[00:59:45] you're not like, wait, what the f- is going on? Right, you know. And she's in Shanghai. She's back in school. She's occupied Shanghai, yeah. And she runs back into a place. She's clearly traumatized. She's studying Japanese because that's how nihilistic it is that she's like, oh f-ck it.

[01:00:07] I'm gonna study the language of the oppressor. She goes to a movie a Carrie Grant movie thinking that she'll get some kind of autumn serenade something similar. Oh yes. And then when she's like five minutes in the movie simply stops and Japanese, pro-Japanese propaganda comes on.

[01:00:25] And the whole lines goes, oh not again and they stand up and walk it. I was trying to think is like is that just like a thing where there's a part of the movie where they're like, well we gotta cut this out

[01:00:35] so we'll just put in an ad? Or is it just like now it's just... That's how I try for God's sake. We suckered you in here and now we're just gonna show you this. They stick around. I feel like they're suckered in. Because otherwise I would hang out.

[01:00:47] I just want to look at my watch. But you're asking are they trying to kill two birds with one stone and like inflict censorship on American movies by replacing the objecting scenes with... With Japanese propaganda. It's not a good business model.

[01:01:03] That's true for the cinema to do that. Those people aren't coming back. Ben just dropping the Japanese propaganda right here. The thing that I think is kind of interesting is not just her hands clean of the murder because she's physically on the other side of a window,

[01:01:17] but she seems so traumatized from the moment the first stabbing happens. They had been telling her like when you're in the room with these guys you know what these people have done, you've got in your hands, you'll want to do it. And she seems so

[01:01:33] uncomfortable with the violence actually happening. I think that they're all imagining this is to be one bullet to the head. Right. Yes and then in the middle of the film. Victory, another scratch on our side where the movement continues. I also want to point out

[01:01:51] that Tony Lung is considered the Hong Kong carry grant. I have no idea if Ang Lee is being cute there. Look at this handsome guy in his suit. Turns out he's a sadistically sexual collaborator. He sucks. So she gets re-recruited. Yeah.

[01:02:13] Look, we didn't know what we were doing earlier. We were kids. That was the dog and pony show. Now we've made it to the A-list. We really got in operation. He's back in town. You gotta seduce him. Sure and the KMT's only gotten more sophisticated I think so.

[01:02:29] They got a little more of like an infrastructure now. And they're in Shanghai and he's like the secret policeman. He's like shooting people or signing death papers and all that stuff. And so she's given some training this time. Yeah, right. She's given a suicide capsule. Yes.

[01:02:51] And he says, so this ends your clothes and I imagine she's gonna have to redo it every time she changes her outfit. That's actually really annoying. Can you give me like 40? What if I forget it? It's a very phantom thread. Never occurred. Unless you have a cyanide capsule.

[01:03:09] Yeah, right. So there's this like... This is a funny movie. A lot of opportunities for humor. Yeah, clearly. It's like our Armistad episode where we were like Okay. Things are rough. I don't know why I just remember this but sometimes I'm listening to your podcast

[01:03:29] and I think of jokes that I could have said if I were there. You guys are talking about Titanic and how the Italian immigrant character is like a very stereotypical super marionette himself. I wanted to jump in at that point and say

[01:03:41] as a matter of fact when he dies he says Mum, mummy, that's a spicy iceberg. Danny Nucci, I hope you're listening. I think that's his name right? I just love the notion of a spicy iceberg. We have one scared then they go like

[01:03:57] it's been a heat on this thing. That's why I went right through the metal. In my memory he said mum and me as he dies. He doesn't actually say mum and me. He just goes ah, it's a smokestack crush. It doesn't go I'm going to win.

[01:04:11] Yeah, that's right. He's more of a Luigi actually. Anyway, sorry, I just described him. No, no, no. For Ritio, I was like what the fuck is his name? He's a really good guy. Not many Hyuk's in this. No, especially not in any of it.

[01:04:27] Apart from the Majang, Majang's fun. Majang, no Shanghai Hyuk's. There's some more innocent time Hong Kong theater or the students. There's a little bit of ball busting I guess. But this is the section of the movie. The second act is more just like Tony Lung's balls.

[01:04:43] Where it gets... We go from ball busting to balls. No, but this is where the movie starts getting really terse. The first scene where it's like okay, this is some femme fatale like spy seduction thing we've seen in movies before and he just essentially assaults her.

[01:04:59] Right, you're thinking the honey trap is working rapes or any attacks. He binds her with a belt and then he unbinds her and hits her with the belt. You're like oh, he's unbinding her. Oh, you know it's a very strange series of choices in this scene.

[01:05:15] And I think that, yeah, I guess you could say he only knows how to communicate at this point through violence. I would think that is the idea. I'm sure if you sat only down that would be his concept of the scene.

[01:05:27] And she is stuck having to bear it that this is her job to try to kill the guy. So that's also justified. But the part that I don't quite get even with Tony Leung and the Rodrigo Prieto beautiful shooting of it all his

[01:05:43] and she's starting to get into it. Like I don't get that. Don't either. The best I can figure it out my analysis is just this notion of not the repetitiveness of it, but the duration the length of time she has to

[01:06:05] continue seeing him and being involved with him. Right. Eventually like it's biologically. It's taking hold. Yeah. And in a creepy abuser abused and I think that is true about victims of abuse that that some aspect of it that they need to internalize some aspect of it is making

[01:06:29] some sense. That's my sense of it is not that it's like she's falling for him because she's enjoying the sex. It's because she is having to repeat these acts over and over and over again. She's having to pretend so avidly that she is in love

[01:06:43] with this guy that it becomes a sort of effect. Cause she has that scene where they're sort of briefing her. Yeah. And she basically breaks down. Right. And she sort of says very odd feeling plotting to assassinate the man that you're involved with.

[01:06:59] Can I swoop in with context corner? Please. Alright. So this is based on a novel by Eileen Chang who is a very famous Chinese writer who is long dead. It's like a short novel. Yes. A novella perhaps you could call it and I think so. I think

[01:07:13] a lot of, you know, a lot of this is in the novel and she's trying to write about honey traps are very common in the days of the KMT and like the resistance and stuff. And I think she's trying to like sort of de glamourize

[01:07:27] like right. She's trying to like really like deep day into the inherent misogyny of like that and how these women were used and abused and obviously it's based on I mean, she claims it's not but it's inspired by the story of a real Chinese spy who was executed

[01:07:45] you know, who became sort of a folk hero. And I think their family were annoyed by this movie because they were like she never fell in love with the guy and you know, like, yeah, you know, like, that's that's not how it went. So they had to be

[01:07:57] very clear like well just inspire by it's not not about it. Sure. Oh my god. For the first time ever. Yellow card yellow card. This moon. Do you got all right. It's a spam call. Thank you. I want to ask you a question.

[01:08:13] Do you get spam calls every day? Yes. So much in the last few months and it's always from numbers that have my area code and my exchange like so basically looks like my number. Yeah, that's how they get to it's so you call yourself where I'm like

[01:08:27] I'm supposed to be like oh six four six like must be a friend of mine and then pick it up and it's like you want to trip on a cruise or whatever. I get five a day now. It's what's going on.

[01:08:37] I have no idea. There was a New York Times article about it about and I said there was a Chinese in fact. So there were a lot of like Chinese spam companies and stuff that were but like

[01:08:45] it's how do they do that? How do they make the number something I recognize? Do they leave voicemails? Yep. Okay. I rarely get voicemails sometimes. I have one now that is like constantly be like you need to call us back because you have a lot of credit problems.

[01:08:57] Right. The IRS and you're like yeah, I know. But it's like something like you owe us money. It's like snow. There was an IRS thing. IRS for sure. I keep on getting college loans and I go you fuckers. I dropped out of college. I'm dumb.

[01:09:13] You can't trick me because I'm a loser and I dropped out. They're just trolling you. Yeah, it's true. You have credit. Are you my dad? Auto? I wish I had college. Insurance on your car is running out and I'm like wait a second. It's that trick anyway. Sorry.

[01:09:31] That's really bad people. I mean, I know that's sort of an obvious thing to say. Someone should do something. I think it's cool though. I think it's super cool. I mean, it's like what's your thing? What are you into? Scam caller guy. You know those calls you get?

[01:09:47] That's me. On a scale from one to ten how surprised would you be if it turned out Ben secretly was like running a phone scam bank. Yeah. There'd be classic. Offshore. I feel like that's a I mean just looking from the outside that's a persona

[01:10:03] that he adopts is the kind of like edgy. One of his characters. Right. Yeah. He's not really criminal, but that now that I see him. You're meeting Ben for the first time. He's a sweet boy. Well, I'm a bad man. You been across me.

[01:10:19] I also want to point out this film is written by James Seamus. Yes. Frequent and Wang Huiling who wrote Eat Drink Man Woman and Crouching Tight. So it's the same team. Same team. Exactly. Good stuff. That is to say they do good stuff. They do.

[01:10:37] It's so weird that he made this movie. It's so weird. I mean, I think you're on something there with the idea of trying to de-glamorize that type of narrative. Right. Because it does feel like one of those movies that's like, hey, you know that

[01:10:49] type of story you've heard before? We're going to show you the version of it that just sucks. Right. That just makes you really uncomfortable and as awful as the real world. That's the thing because it'd be one thing if it was just that he's an abusive monster.

[01:11:01] Sure. That's fine. We understand that I'm sure that's what these people were the further uncomfortableness of like, and she's she does eventually just sort of get Stockholm syndrome into it. It's such a bummer. To the extent that it fails. I mean, this is the thing. The movie ends

[01:11:15] with her warning him because he's beginning to show just like slivers of humanity and so she's sort of moved enough to prevent his death. She is so moved by his lover. I don't think it's even that she's so in love with him but she is moved

[01:11:29] by his gesture which is clearly all he can manage is to fire some shit. Right. Yeah. And she's like it's so nice and he's like, well, I just wanted you to have something and just that alone she's like sort of like flabbergasted because he's been

[01:11:45] such an inhuman monster. Right. But she's sort of a person who can never stop seeing people as people. Yeah. And he's kind of a person who is able to completely turn that off. Imagine going like, all right, you've pitched you've gone to a boardroom, right? You've

[01:11:59] had to like go in and like, all right so it's like sexy cat and mouse thriller. She's trying to kill the guy and the great thing is here's what happens. She saves him is executed offscreen and then he feels

[01:12:13] bad about at the end. Yeah. All of her friends are killed too. Right. Right. Right. And they don't even know that she is the one who messed it up. Not just for herself but she gets her five friends and they feel guilty. They think it's their fault

[01:12:25] and then but then he does you know, feel some weird existential regret and then the movie's over. He does sit down on a bed and look sad for about 10 seconds. When you're putting it that way, it sounds a little like the ending of Rogue One.

[01:12:37] Yeah. Hey, it's just sort of completely well. They ripped us off. Let's not go all out. They built a time machine. In fact, watch Rogue One went back again. Yeah. And they which is not cool. What were you going to say? Miss you so the technology

[01:12:51] does he seem haunted? Yeah. No, little haunted, little haunted and I can just imagine you have studio being sure 15 million you're asking for. Okay, here you go. And do they give a check like that? Is that a big check? Do they have like a big check?

[01:13:05] What would they do? Yeah, they have a big big thing with a big check and they do a big sign. Yeah. Yeah. Big pen. And McMahon is there. They pull a giant lever to initiate the green light. Confetti comes down. There's the green light.

[01:13:19] Yeah. Well, no, the great thing is that like at the studio had every studio had has a big button which is a green light button. Right, right, right. And if they hit red, does that trap door and you fall through the trap door? Well,

[01:13:33] they stopped doing that because some people got hurt. But so you're right. They still hit the red button and the lights flash but you just someone just comes in and goes like, yeah, yeah. But underneath the trap door is director jail, right? Director jail is

[01:13:47] is a real thing. And it was pretty nice. You just don't get to make movies, but like this good bed. Otherwise it's like a hotel. Yeah, right. No, the thing that's a real bummer in this movie is that you go, okay, so one of two things

[01:14:03] is probably going to happen. Either she's going to fall for him, find his humanity, save him. Sure. Or she's going to realize he can't be saved and she's going to kill him and it's going to kill her that she had to kill him.

[01:14:15] It'll be tragic in a way that he's dead or brutal or whatever but right, he will die. Right. And instead it's she has a moment of pure humanity that she cannot suppress. And she does not learn. In kind. But you also learn

[01:14:29] and I wonder if it's a bit of a get out of jail but he does still sign her death paper. He learns a bit, but then it turns out his number two guy has been following the thing all along. Yes, yes. We were hoping to crack

[01:14:43] open the cell essentially which would have bummer. And that's the thing they're basically telling him like you were quasi expendable to us. Like if you die during this shrug, they didn't get a woo. Old Woo got away. The spy master. And it turns out also there were two

[01:15:01] other honeypot traps right. They mentioned actually no he someone tells that to her. Oh, Old Woo says that to her to Tung Wei that there have been two other attempts to seduce this dude and each time he killed them. Yeah. Right. She's the third.

[01:15:17] But I think the implication is partly like that the lingering affection from back in the day is sort of like interesting enough this was the first time he actually sort of fell. Right. So there is something that is where this movie gets

[01:15:31] so blank checkie is just how fucking bleak it is and then that bleakness tied to an NC 17 rating. Like the fact that he was able to win both of those arguments like the ending is just so soul crushing yes. But also

[01:15:47] it's going to be box office poison because we have six minutes of graphic sex scenes. Right. It's a curious film. I assume he had final cut and all that and he was just like this is the movie I want to make

[01:15:57] and there you go. Wouldn't let them cut it down for an R it ended up getting an R cut when it went to home video because this was still a blockbuster era and most home video stores will not stock NC 17 movies. So I watched

[01:16:09] it on I think it was through Apple do you think I saw the NC 17 one because now I'm feeling like I know I don't think you did because I first looked on Apple and it looked like it was saying and that this was what was weird. It was

[01:16:21] like the R rated version. So you see in theaters and I was like that's because it's not way to try to make this sexier but I think it's less sexy and then yeah because the difference in time is one minute it's one minute yes so it's really

[01:16:35] balls or balls I mean really I think that he let me scrotum yeah I did see the back sure I think you just missed more of a scrotum. I think they cut specific shots or made certain shots shorter or limited the thrusts I mean all this insane

[01:16:51] shit that they do I mean it is bizarre how much the MPA runs off of like a checklist system where it's like one thrust, two thrust, NC 17 you know what this process is called eventually what frame fucking is when literally I've had marketing and post people

[01:17:07] to talk to me about it like I mean listen they're gonna get really mad if we feel we're getting into frame fucking but that's what is called because you're like well okay you know there are 12, we'll take out 12 frames of frontal nudity

[01:17:21] from this shot and we'll get closer it's horse trading we're not supposed to say that by the way I think I'm not supposed to have said that because the MPA is like no no no we don't do that. We don't negotiate, we just say what it is

[01:17:31] the MPA is so strange well I mean and also this is the thing is like this film was released on cut in Hong Kong and Taiwan cut in Singapore and the Singapore like the people of Singapore cried out

[01:17:45] and were like we can handle it and so then it was released on cut and they're like no we've gone too far and then they all had sort of breakdowns like Tong Wei has but in mainland China there's a lot of a lot was cut the dead refugees

[01:17:59] were cut oh wow the stabbing scene was cut down a lot two of the sex scenes with the student were cut three with Mr. Yi were cut the shot of her going to the window was cut that the oh whoa dialogue modified in diamond ring

[01:18:17] scene so that she does not betray the resistance wow they just changed the movie yeah and she's still blacklisted by the Chinese movie industry she was replaced by Maggie Q in some big movie that she was about to be in and so she like moves to the UK

[01:18:35] and does other stuff for a while but now she has made this comeback and that but nonetheless despite all the stuff we're saying it was a huge hit in China it did really well yeah you know by the standards of like this kind of movie here it made

[01:18:49] a couple million bucks and focus was like we thought it was pretty good for an NC 17 but it kind of was just like forgotten well here's the other thing so this film was at the Venice Film Festival only had won the Golden Line

[01:19:01] two years ago for broke back he wins again yeah like and which is I feel like that's really unusual like festivals are often very like you know you already won once right especially back to back he's up against I'm looking at is Zhang Yimu the famous

[01:19:17] mainland Chinese director it was the chair so it's sort of an interesting pick in a lot of ways because this is sort of a you know it's very fudgy like morally like gross movie it's more interesting than a chair you know that was kind of slow

[01:19:35] I'm two hours of a chair atonement I'm seeing some of the Venice movies just the chair it was just a chair for two hours it's like you know did people sit in it no it just sits there on the eastwood says hi to it quickly

[01:19:51] give me back our country sorry atonement assassination Jesse James I'm not there Michael Clayton I mean 07 was like a big this is a good Venice festival like you know there's some there's some Romero movies one of those like like 90 year old Eric Romero movies Kenneth Branagh had

[01:20:17] Sleuth there that was whatever that one but that's like it wins that award and then has no awards traction after that no it gets on for best I think she's the globe I believe she got an indie spirit nomination I think both of them got spirit nominations

[01:20:33] really yeah it got a BAFTA and a Golden Globe farm film nomination and they both got and there's some cinematography to it's very pretty yeah that's but it's kind of an odd duck forgotten movie in his filmography yeah and now feels like you wonder

[01:20:55] if he would ever do something like this again now that he's on such a technological yeah I wonder that's a good point it does feel like you know there are periods that he'll just dip back into like I'm gonna make a Chinese language movie again

[01:21:07] and then this is the last one this last time we did that so will he do it again well here's a question for you Chris you have a very eclectic filmography that's how I like to be that's why I filmmakers like I'm they're all rounders

[01:21:21] we love that about him with you do you feel like that's a strategic thing of I want to mix it up I like doing different types of things is it trying to constantly zag from whatever you did last yes definitely

[01:21:33] I think it might have started it might have started with doing American Pine thinking like and getting offered every teen sex comedy and you don't want to get stuck in that yeah but then just sort of thinking it's so hard to make movies right it's at least

[01:21:45] a year out of your life of really really hard work and I don't want to do the same thing interesting like strategically it could be a bad decision because people are become sort of known as a tourist often for doing the same kind

[01:21:59] of movie you expect certain tone or genre whatever so that you develop a brand and it's a different thing to sort of bounce around like anything on Lidia does it you guys have talked about Sutterberg but he really puts a stamp on it somehow Michael

[01:22:15] Winter Bottom you know these guys people who are always like I'm gonna do this crazy thing but usually I'll make a movie and then I'll be like that was really hard I don't do that again so you're you're zagging mostly just like no no thank you what's

[01:22:29] this I haven't done this so it's like whatever will get me to do it again is usually something quite different from what I've done before because you could have so easily after American Pie just cash out on that for 20 years just think

[01:22:43] so suddenly be a guy who is getting all the big live action comedy scripts you're being able to choose what you want to take on develop whatever you wanted around whatever personality or yeah I think I'd want to die right you would feel

[01:22:57] trapped in that sort of I mean I guess you could perhaps if you looked at all the stuff I did like critique me for trying to be the sad clown you know like where a comedian is like and when I really want to do dramatic roles

[01:23:09] and then it's like God we got to put up with like sad Jim Carrey again but there's like there's such a weird and I say this in a good way like it's not just like oh please take me seriously it's like you did like two big like

[01:23:23] YA adaptations you know you did like drama D's you did drama you did like comedy I'd like to think people are like huh? which I like your new movie is like a thriller right this is right it is an assassination attempt movie kind of

[01:23:39] it is the the abduction of Adolf Eichmann the organizer of the final solution by the Israelis in 1960 so it's a spy thriller and Eichmann was one of those like the functionary type right he wasn't like the grand le evil one he was the one who's like

[01:23:57] I'll just you know make sure everything works perfectly to eliminate all the Jews that's the version that Hannah Arendt kind of put forward and it was an argument that he sort of put forward when he was put on trial right he's one of the few

[01:24:11] there are also other takes on him which point out that he was actually kind of a careerist and ambitious and that at times he seems to be an ideologue as well so it's a kind of an interesting character in as much as it's sort of hard

[01:24:23] to understand whether he is sort of the embodiment of evil or just some guy who got swept up in it or a functionary or what that movie conspiracy I like that movie the H.B.L. movie yes that's the one about the vonzai conference where Stanley Tuch

[01:24:39] Tuch, Tessa the Tuch it's more than a touch it's a way it's the sous-saint of the Tuch and he plays him basically as that the sort of like softly spoken kind of yes he's very he's a very efficient kind of guy he's like the mid-level exec

[01:24:57] but he has this moment where he talks I've seen that movie a weird amount of times I'm really obsessed with it it's a Frank Pearson movie it's a great movie where he talks to someone about how he's learned Hebrew and he'll talk to rabbis

[01:25:13] he likes to understand the mind of the Jew in ways that the others are just like aren't they just awful? not just supposed to hate them well that's sort of the stuff that Tarantino was playing on with Christoph Hals is sort of great monologue at the beginning

[01:25:27] of how to think like them that's like this stuff in less caution in Nazi Germany when you look at like where you go like where's the dividing line between these people who are like I got a thing I gotta make happen

[01:25:41] and these people who are like it's alive and like both are evil in terms of what the final output is you're saying that the Flintstones is about collaborators well it is 100% they do have like a chattel system with all these poor animals

[01:25:55] who have to like do their dishes or whatever they live as the garbage disposal oh my god the food is so weird Flintstones is so fucked someone came to you and said we're bringing back the Flintstones would you be like I can do this

[01:26:13] do you feel like you'd have a take no I don't I don't know if there can be a take on the Flintstones I just feel like that is the supreme Hollywood 90s blank check movie where they're like sets costumes like blow this out

[01:26:27] like this should be an epic cartoon reel I was very disturbed I never saw it but I was very disturbed by the trailer in which John Goodman he says like I got a flat and he holds up his foot and his foot has this long gash

[01:26:41] in it it upset me so much because I got it's looked incredibly painful and there should be blood sort of streaming from it avoiding the movie since then like Luscaution they want you to reckon with well also Luscaution apart from the rape also this tearing of that

[01:26:57] really nice dress bothered me because I was like oh fuck that was like a really carefully tailored dress and also how is she going to get home it feels very intentional right where he's like all the finery of this

[01:27:09] the way you're being dressed up and everyone's so classy in those mahjong scenes or so like oh yeah you know and then he's just like ripping it apart I'll say David you've talked about a lot how much you hate when people don't eat

[01:27:19] meals that were prepared in movies I feel that way about clones getting ripped I do every time it happens even when it's like a fully consensual sexy fun time let's rip each other's clothes off thing I'm like paid for that I'm like that was a cigarette

[01:27:35] where someone doesn't smoke like a whole thing I'm like come on it's a waste if they throw it down after two pumps two pumps I'm like get out of here you don't really smoke well that's caution can we play the box office game

[01:27:47] yeah sure yeah you guys excited pumped I'm always astonished at the ability you guys have this is a weird one any September box office game is usually going to be weird okay so this is a period of time I think it might be very

[01:28:02] burning to my mind because this is me starting in my one semester of film school oh wow sure die September 28 2007 September 2007 like fluted California yeah I'm looking at box office module do you want to I've never heard somebody like gizump you and get in before you

[01:28:22] want to try yeah you can jump in trying to figure out what will be more fun for me whether to get it up on IMDB or to I guess with me I'd be box office mojo yeah you gotta go with the mojo no no I'm gonna try

[01:28:34] okay I'll say my my thing is I remember these movies very vividly because this was the first time in my life having grown up in New York that I didn't have movie going autonomy if you remember any of these movies vividly I tip my cap to one

[01:28:46] of them what I'm saying to you I think I do because I was living California now driver's license if I want to see a movie I to talk someone into seeing it oh I was you needed a lift to aware of what to see

[01:28:56] and there were times where I saw movies I didn't want to see because I was like I need to see something is to move the guy with a car would rather see this than that so let's let's test it alright so number one opening this weekend making

[01:29:08] twenty two point nine million dollars just to be clear a lost caution opened at number forty nine in one theater although I had a great purse green average sixty three thousand very good purse green average I assume that was the angelica or whatever right like an chick that's

[01:29:24] like every single I mean it was aingly baby his broke back follow up you know this is a sports comedy the game plan I had more do you remember what this movie is because I know it sounds like a movie it's the game

[01:29:40] plan but I have no idea what that is has a daughter right correct and he said what if an athlete had a child and he had to raise that was he couldn't get over and she like likes ballet why doesn't she like football the only

[01:29:52] thing he does this was interesting because football is different from very different now very different that's that this is the border pictures like football like the slide just a picture of a football right and then they click ballet and people go wait what happened the last

[01:30:08] movie either two different pitches football ballet can't be in the same film I just remember the poster I've got the dog is him that the daughter is in her ballet outfit and she started and he's looking like he also has like a bulldog under his arm correct

[01:30:22] and so they're like and don't there's gonna be a bulldog to yes right like get ready that's the way we're in a tiara it is 100% but dog, she put a tiara on a bulldog who does that this is a Disney movie the Disney live action

[01:30:36] family comics that era all needed an animal like the pacifier they weirdly spotlighted a duck in all the advertising the poster for the past fires like Vin Diesel with like ammo and the baby that's right that's right there maybe they're like they're testing

[01:30:52] is like we don't know what to do the only thing it tests well is this duck more duck but that's the thing they like get an action star put them with kids throw in an animal just like in the in the angry birds trailer for some

[01:31:04] reason this joke must have tested well but one of the characters saying oh my god and like they did that like ten times in the trailer like you have kids do you see a lot of kids movies like today actually no because we're kind of Amish about that

[01:31:18] we don't let them see much but sadly I did watch I'm sorry I'm sure somebody I know worked on it but the angry birds I did I directed the anger really sorry it's fine I checked my email basically I caught up on my

[01:31:32] emails throughout the entire angry birds the angry birds is actually like just about how immigration is bad I think yes yes there's these green pigs don't trust them the pigs are bad right never ride yeah I heard someone I am only a sheet of talking about this yeah

[01:31:48] now David gotta be honest and it's a great shame I admit this podcast does not pass the back they'll tell no no it never really has probably never really well well well maybe on an upcoming episode oh actually okay yeah I know what you're talking about

[01:32:06] but but you know it is like this you know we're a couple of boys talking about movies right which who fucking gives a shit we're coming from this male perspective we're mansplaining these things to you you know sure and you know sometimes we overlook the sort of quiet

[01:32:24] sexism the way the patriarchy is forced upon us in the media right okay not so for this podcast it's called the back they'll cast it's a great podcast yeah I mean much significantly better in every sense yes it's it's like healthier it's it's a smarter it's

[01:32:44] funnier one of the great movie podcast out there yes and by every measure better than blank check yeah and they they bring on a special guest popular movie and discuss its representation of women through a feminist lens sure they determine if a movie passes the back they'll test

[01:33:02] a famous test designed by Alison Beckville it requires two named female characters to speak to each other about something other than a man of course many movies do not pass this test yeah it's a joke she wrote in a comic strip about the bare minimum

[01:33:16] and unfortunately still 20 years later most movies do not pass yes of intersectional theory this podcast it aims to call attention to Hollywood's long history of under and misrepresented women and to encourage listeners to be more critical than media they consume but it's like funny and they tell

[01:33:34] jokes and Jamie and Katelyn are really funny and so we're talking about some of the biggest movies of all time you know that's not the only lens they're viewing them Star Wars but maybe Black Panther Frozen Jurassic Park Beetlejuice Pulp Fiction Beetlejuice oh no he's here Love Actually

[01:33:54] Clueless, Alien, Titanic, Transformers many more so they got new episodes every Thursday you can listen and subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts listen to them and stop listening to us objectively yeah can you tell me someone else who's in the game plan

[01:34:12] fuck I really my cap is on there has to be like I mean tell me who directed I've never heard of Andy flickman nice director of Pulp Art Monocop too because I know he also did the escape to which mountain or race to which mountain

[01:34:28] right he was like one of the rock guys I think that was the first movie where he was accredited as the rock where it's just Dwayne Johnson on the poster oh it was Dwayne the Rock okay well that movie probably has someone

[01:34:42] who is honest to come at that time an adult and it probably has one weirdly over qualified actor to play like the head of the team or something like that kind of John Gielgud right it must have a like yeah no it doesn't have

[01:35:00] like Janet Mcteer or whatever you think you know Kira Sedgwick is in it oh the closer the closer herself yeah Morris Chestnut I'm guessing he possibly plays another player maybe a coach I used to play basketball with him very good guy is he a nice guy

[01:35:14] great three point shot as well clutch incredibly handsome he's one of the best and he's one of those guys where you're like oh he's 50 like you could have told me he's 28 yeah like he is incredibly handsome all right number two

[01:35:28] okay and this is you see this is your film school year this is the film I'm doing this is the year I'm doing red carpet okay for People Magazine and I did attend the Golden Comp this is well premiered as I told

[01:35:38] you I guess I docked to you you might dodge no not him I went to the after party too it was like in like the docklands and it was like so lavish I remember we were like driven out on a bus okay wait I'm sorry hold on

[01:35:50] one second this is uncomfortable David the bits retired I know that's why you what were you doing that you can't bring it up the bits retired wait I'm not allowed to talk about my life no we agree that we retired the bit that you're

[01:36:04] from England do you see the Jersey the Jersey's up there we've retired the bit that you're from London so I'm not you're alleging that I was just pretending the whole time like that it was my bit I'm saying it was a bit and everything

[01:36:16] that was contained within the bit has now been retired so there's a great just MVP two championships number number two at the box office okay is a film I attended the red carpet for I believe I've talked about it on this podcast it is it's an action movie

[01:36:32] the kingdom because he told the story about Jamie Foxx in the SUV drove his SUV into the theater you drove it up the road and he said the kingdom see it that's what he said to the and they backed up I've never seen

[01:36:44] anything like it I was I was truly surprised but then Jennifer Garner told me that she would never allow Violet to act in a movie oh wow and I wrote that up and it was like the biggest story people had that week and like really a call

[01:36:56] from someone wow great great job on that story and I was like what it's like one quote yeah yeah because moms yes mom's mom's like moms we was one of the same where I was like and how is Violet and she's like great and

[01:37:10] someone else I don't know maybe I was like you know who do you think she'd be in a movie she's like no I put the kibosh on that and I came home and my editor was like what'd you get and I was like he was like

[01:37:20] write it up stop the process and got a runner who ran your job red carpet reporting is she always had her very nice to be oh she had her kids on set with her during draft day sure really fucking good mom hey

[01:37:34] like she was like constantly moming in between takes I can buy that which which like a is impressive because we're talking about how weird acting is that she'd do a take and then go like how are you guys doing like jump right back into it

[01:37:46] I met her when she we were shooting something in Hawaii and she was working with a friend of mine on Pearl Harbor can that be right yeah she's in Pearl Harbor yeah she was really cool really really nice that's that's a young Garner too I feel like

[01:38:00] that's pre alias or maybe no maybe it's during concurrence yeah alright number three is a sequel it's not a sequel no in a long running franchise let me I actually have to find out which edition it even is is it a saw picture no it's not a

[01:38:16] saw those first firm October right right right right right it is the third it's the third I think it's a great movie in a oh okay so well you given me the hint which is that doesn't have a number no no I'm sure which one

[01:38:30] it was because the sub title it's a colon is it Resident Evil extinction apocalypse no you had it there's like I there's no point my I'm sorry this how are you getting this so that I can follow box office mojo um Resident Evil extinction which

[01:38:50] is kind of the first good Resident Evil movie the first one's okay yeah but is the CGI is like kind of not great and I'm like a big fan of these movies to be that's the one that has a bus driver named auto

[01:39:02] right yeah Ben you like it well I you recommended it to me and it's on my list oh sure sure sure yes right I'm really into video games movies yeah that's right no I know that about you you like Assassin's Creed movies you like wet

[01:39:16] he likes wet it's like flicks he likes to slick flick that's why you subscribe to wet flicks the Netflix for wet movies the moisture the better thank you comedy boys oh yeah what if they did this sub category so like damp drenched like films with a soggy protagonist

[01:39:38] all right so extinction extinction is kind of the first good one right because the second one's a nightmare yeah extinction is where they kind of figure out what the formula these movies are and it's doing what like mad max fury road does

[01:39:50] ten years later no one gives a credit for it interesting great movie number four is a comedy starring like a real hot comedy person of the like moment oh so it was like a brief moment pretty brief okay so I'm gonna guess it was a dane cook

[01:40:06] move correct but which dane cook movie and I'm gonna tell you the embarrassing reason I know this was a good luck Chuck it was good luck Chuck I was I think it's really the tailor because I think employer the month did okay

[01:40:18] right like is we go lower from there because we haven't even gotten to my best friends girl yet yeah I think that follows good luck Chuck right well let's look at his filmography yeah you got a good luck Chuck in 2007 employee the month was the year before

[01:40:34] my best friends girl is 2008 right because good luck Chuck and that's it and my best friends girl have almost identical premises oh really good luck Chuck good luck Chuck that he has bad luck good luck Chuck is that after okay break up with him after you slept

[01:40:50] with him you then meet the love of your life exactly if you sleep with him you will find oh that's right right right right my best friends girl is kind of a good premise like you could go do a movie is that I haven't seen it is that

[01:41:04] a magical fact or is it a tendency that people are noticing I think they don't make it magical and it had like they don't come in really double down on what's his name Dan folder so I'm just gonna say I remember

[01:41:16] this because I had I had the good luck Chuck character poster for Jessica Alba that was in a big Jessica Alba phase at that's truly one of the most distressing it's one of the most embarrassing things I've ever said with the ice cream

[01:41:28] that was on my wall in my college dorm room was on your wall that was on my wall no keep it in double it I want I want to be open I want to do what I want to all my mistakes was it a was not framed

[01:41:38] situation I'll tell you what I did no I thought this was kind of clever I got grip tape I got red grip tape and I made little X's on the corners and I thought it looked nice and it didn't hold very well my concrete

[01:41:52] or cement walls also had that very weird poster there's a ripoff of the John Lennon Yoko Ono picture yeah very strange marketing campaign not a hit the Alba poster it's her holding an ice cream cone

[01:42:04] and the ice cream is dripping down her hand and then the tag line is there's something about Jessica come on yep you know what actually when when American by came out that I think the poster said there's something about your first piece

[01:42:16] I hated everything about that's that's the its derivatives and the I mean I hate to say this but it's it's very little but it is it is a good tag like in terms of not a good tag in terms of its effectiveness exactly does

[01:42:30] your brain yeah wasn't American by one of those movies that had like a million titles though right like like they were cycled yeah it was at first called something like teen sex comedy that can be made for whatever I read that legend again you

[01:42:44] will hate you will hate whatever audience will love right and then it was called grand rap it's high great title no not east ground up sorry east great falls high sure yeah which should it should have been frankly right yeah yeah that's that's then the studio one

[01:42:58] point tried to sell us on comfort food that's weird yeah that's terrible like you just described two scenarios in which your career possible I know like my life flash before my eyes I don't know American pie there's something about your first piece just for

[01:43:16] contrast my best friends girl is Academy Award nominee Kate Hudson dumps Jason Biggs so Jason Biggs hires dame cook to pretend to be a shitty guy to by contrast to break her heart right yeah right that's a great idea I mean just not for a

[01:43:36] movie but for life but it is weird that there are two movies in a row that were dame cook being the worst guy who can make people end up with the people they should be with but then he ends up falling for the

[01:43:46] people so in good luck Chuck does he like false for Jessica Alba and does he like not want to sleep with her is that the game I think that's the big 40 days 49 I think it's that sort of bit and I think in my best friends girl it's like

[01:43:58] a Mrs. Doubtfire thing where he gets so into this persona of the asshole but still somehow yeah that's kind of like a triple reverse really and then the asshole yes also I like Baldwin's in it fair enough that was in the that's in the

[01:44:14] Baldwin comeback phase where 30 Rock is just just our hypo yeah exactly Baldwin Assance number five is a great movie real throwback I'm giving you nothing because you're getting them all anyway I told you this this period was brain memory it's a remake so remake it's a throwback

[01:44:32] remake of a great movie but I think this is a good move is it 310 humor it is the only James mangled movie that is not a secret western it's just a western he's out in the open about it right yeah good movie Russell Crowe Christian Bale Peter Fonda

[01:44:48] yeah Luke Wilson weirdly isn't that yes look one of the early Ben Foster is crazy movies yeah Ben Foster walks on screen you're like this guy yeah you want extra sour cream Ben Foster with a barrel of paprika what you know one of the because

[01:45:06] like I was gonna say in hostiles I think I brought this up when he's when he appears on screen it's because that they're like could you take this prisoner to the next town and then it's been Foster and you just go like no I don't do not

[01:45:18] accept his next he's only trouble I remember in cold mountain where they they demonstrate that a character is loco by having him jump backwards off a fence or something Charlie Hunnam the albino was that Charlie that's another example of a character

[01:45:36] who's extra where they're like how do we show these crazy does everything backwards and also he's albino yeah that's a weird one some other we got the brave one this sort of Jody Foster Deathwish revenge yeah yeah Mr. Woodcock which I think you've invoked on

[01:45:52] this podcast multiple times reference directed by Craig Julespy yeah I Tanya that last and wasn't the brave one directed by Phillip noise that sounds plausible he's one of the no it's Neil Jordan even more weird he's a self blank check Neil Jordan

[01:46:08] because you know things I mean obviously like interview the vampire but also he got to make his like Tony Irish independence like movie off of the crying game and like in dreams is a weird one the end of the affair is a classic thrusting situation rusts

[01:46:24] where it was like we'll have this many thrusts right were you guys surprised in the crying game I remember the first the think I knew the twist the moment that sure she David's came on screen is like you got it yeah we're had

[01:46:42] did you see it in theaters like and I was like what I did see with the twist right yes so I was really pushed that I was twist spotting for sure spotting yeah no when you watch it now it's actually a fascinating

[01:46:56] movie it's a great movie yes I saw it knowing this movie about like queer romance like and it feels that way very early on yes but yeah J David's really good in that and stargate and then is not in any other movie yeah done

[01:47:10] right yeah to and out crazy also Eastern promises great movie yeah sort of a stealth moneymaker across the universe that's a real blank check movie we ever do TAMOR yeah yeah it's a weird one yeah this is like that's like a very kind of like a tour driven

[01:47:28] September box office yeah because also opening limited is the Darjeeling limited yeah opening the Darjeeling limited you know yeah you're right I mean this was a weekend before it went Darjeeling wide come on half half take them 10 dark comedy points there you go September I love September box

[01:47:52] office games so you you have no your films coming out and you film will have just come out this would be almost concurrent yes this is coming out the Monday after your movie comes out that's exciting I know so I didn't

[01:48:04] you know I you know what I I told myself I wasn't gonna plug I'm not I'm here to plug you're not you have been it's very exciting you want to sneak in with the great Isaac Oscar Isaac Oscar Isaac Ben Kingsley yeah you work with

[01:48:20] Ben Kingsley just Ben Kingsley feel weird about having played like multiple like sort of villain like he's playing a Nazi or he's played like resistors of Nazis and past Mandarin he has played also I demanded the Mandarin of course we did talk about that damn it

[01:48:38] I wanted you to sit down with him and he's like you know my favorite I really like that performer it's a great person he was the host of Croydon yeah well who else who else we got we got your Nick Krolls yeah Nick Krolls in it

[01:48:54] Nick Kroll who feels very I feel like he wants to do serious he's in that phase of his career where he's like I want to do serious where he knows he can and and he's sort of got the window Joe Alwyn of Jilly Lynn

[01:49:08] Billy Lynn fame yeah yeah yeah she taught us great Jilly Lynn that must have been a crazy experience we didn't talk about Billy Lynn there's some very jealous of the work of other fair enough you don't want to talk about other Haley Lou Richardson

[01:49:22] who I feel like is like the like so amazing right now yeah she's great well she was in a movie that I produced Columbus right you produce Columbus yeah yeah which weirdly was a movie that for me came about because

[01:49:36] of Twitter so there are some good things coming from Twitter which is that Cogonada's video I tweeted at Cogonada and then we sort of got into an email relationship and then it turned out he wanted to make a movie

[01:49:48] and then he said to us I don't know if you know but Ben has a pitch he's been throwing around Hollywood it's like a few it's like a prequel to the thing you work no no I got a new one well you had a new one yeah

[01:49:58] are you ready yeah alright so we have this thing on the show where we have pointed out that especially action movies the screenwriter will just have them do some kind of thing doesn't drive the plot along it's just like their shows like their buddies or they got

[01:50:18] the example we use is we call it the blender so in Will Smith movie the enemy of the state he keeps on talking about his blender and it's like a character pork that's just to give them a little color

[01:50:28] but it doesn't actually factor into the story at all they're a real person so the movie is called Night Eggs I already like that I do just on the title great so it's sort of like a transition of diehard type action movie

[01:50:48] Luke Holler guy or just like regular guy he's not like he's not like Keanu's franchise John Wick he's like a Ben Haasley type good call and so he is just he's gonna have some kind of three day sort of situation

[01:51:08] it's like you know what I mean very contained terrorist whatever you get it the reason is called Night Eggs he likes to have breakfast at night so there's all these scenes where he's monologuing and he has like he's making eggs make an eggs I like it

[01:51:24] and that's they call him Night Eggs like it's kind of his nickname because everyone knows he likes to have breakfast at night does he wake up in order to eat in the middle of the night or does before he goes to bed he makes him eggs

[01:51:36] he keeps late hours but you know what I mean like but when it's like night time and it's dinner time is it is it okay does he discover the plot the plot gets said in motion because he's making eggs at night like out of his

[01:51:50] rear kitchen window thing right because there's like the diehard thing we're like oh the reason he's in the building is because it's his wife's Christmas party there has to be something where like he's awake at a time that no one else is because that's his breakfast tower

[01:52:02] alright and he sees a murder it's like a rear window but Night Eggs right yeah that's good sure alright I think we're cooking with something here do you find out later that the reason he cooks eggs at night is because his father was a Night Watchman

[01:52:16] wanted with the only way could really show his love was to give him some of the eggs that he made when he got home from work called a Hollywood note right there that's a really good note yeah thank you

[01:52:26] I mean so how about this I'll be an executive producer I'll uh thank you for saying Chris already already treatment who needs it just just just go straight to the script get the big check put in which the green button where is it

[01:52:42] does it come out of the ceiling alright so I'll write the screenplay and uh I'll send it along what do you think like how many pages for the treatment no no for the screenplay oh for the screenplay uh well probably should not

[01:52:54] about two hours fifteen two hours and two and a half hours that's what you're thinking time wise is that people know that it matters it's an important movie yeah alright oh boy I mean this could be a great night eggs great cooking movie great food

[01:53:06] movie that's true I love a good food he's always going to finish his breakfast right who's going to sing there shouldn't be the song called night eggs oh for sure uh but we should bring somebody back to do that right um Tina Turner yeah Tina oh god

[01:53:18] perfect do you know what I miss I miss when movie theme songs used to have their own titles but then parentheses the theme from night eggs yeah from night eggs right yeah from Arthur yeah nobody did better right parentheses in songs finishing a thought yeah it's

[01:53:32] pretty great too yeah right I would do anything for love parentheses but I won't do that yeah uh before we wrap um well thank you for that oh thank you I'm expecting uh great things uh night eggs I mean meet Griffin yes gendry tartoski has signed on

[01:53:50] with Sony Pictures Animation to direct two features what did this just come out while we record okay uh an r rated comedy called fixed no idea what that is it'll never happen and black night an epic action adventure in the vein of samurai jack which he has written

[01:54:06] interesting yeah there was a movie called black night that's true I mean it's unimpeachable I mean you couldn't you couldn't be that one right yeah that works name it's an animated remake right um well look I mean this is the same thing that happened

[01:54:22] after uh hotel Transylvania 2 where they announced two projects and they have announced he's on board he's going to do his own movies with us and we're excited but who knows will that happen I'll tell you the thing because people on red after episode came out or hotel

[01:54:36] Transylvania mega episode came out we're saying like why won't someone let him make a 2d film sure like if brad bird couldn't cash in a check to get that done like who's gonna get it done I wish a guy like uh gendry tartoski would go to like anapurna

[01:54:52] sure didn't you make uh is an operation family anapurna see I'm jamming my stuff because like anapurna made sausage party and that was because I made my conventional animation studio was like we can't do this sure right and I feel like rather

[01:55:06] than going to a place with an animation department he needs to just find a financier well he signed on with Sony so it's not happening you had a good experience with anapurna though very good experience they seem cool yeah they have a great lineup as well

[01:55:20] they have like a lot of fun too they make classy movies I think sausage party yeah because they've got a like the barry jenkins movie this year they have the end of mckay dick chaney movie this year they got a lot of fun

[01:55:38] did they make the jonna hill movie no that's 824 well operation finale is playing in theaters now at the time you're listening to this episode you're not plugging it it's not a thing you're plugging I'm just mentioning that in my own volition

[01:55:50] I didn't even give you any hand signals none at all and also you know ants is always available to rent on streaming platforms your first very good script was that your very first script it was actually yeah yeah that was very lucky for us me and my brother

[01:56:08] it's a hell of a screenplay thank you very much thank you for being here come back I will tomorrow perfect no no this is great it's so much fun to do this one of my favorite podcast we really cannot believe

[01:56:26] that you think that but thank you for coming yeah it is very weird every time someone likes the show anyone I had like one of those yesterday where I was talking to someone he was like oh by the way I've been listening right

[01:56:38] it always feels a little bit like someone has discovered my extramarital affair I'm having when someone tells me I've been listening to the show you're talking do you feel weirdly ashamed or does it make you lose respect for the person where you're like oh god

[01:56:52] no it doesn't make me lose respect it makes me feel ashamed it does I'm like do they know too much about me now sure you know oh god what have I said you know there's that I worry about that where I'm like fuck what

[01:57:08] I was listening to sort of just to catch up you were talking about the Sam Gamgee's butthole yeah he's got stinky buttholes oh right that was an ad read sure whoever that was was that a dollar shave club I think they pulled all their ads

[01:57:26] it was dollar shave club we love you guys no we got paid money for I made money for saying that if you break it down whatever amount of sense I made for saying the brown eye of the sorrow that's something I do um

[01:57:44] Ben has an adding machine in front of him so my grandma started like bragging to people about my podcast like point of pride like oh my grandson he's got a podcast people say it's great you're like X-na on the agbray

[01:57:58] well that I was like she was like you have to give me an episode that I can listen to and hey I think she thought I was gonna like hand her like a 45 that she could like play but yeah he's like what episode

[01:58:08] won't have something that my grandmother will be terrified or confused by right um I not this one no no I think she listened to broadcast news maybe she also keeps complaining that she doesn't have any good photos of me I'm sorry I said I'm on a tv show

[01:58:24] that's true but maybe she doesn't want you in a moth outfit well tough titties then tough titties uh and on that note thank you all for listening thank you guys for being here Chris please remember to rate, review, subscribe thanks to Antro Guto for our social media

[01:58:44] lame uncumbering for our theme song Joe Bowen, Pat Rounds for artwork go to BlankiesOutRad.com for some real nerdy shit and as always Nighthack's right yeah coming soon