Millennium Actress with Hoai-Tran Bui

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David, don't know what to say or to expect,

[00:00:12] cause we're shy with Blank Check.

[00:00:18] The part I really loved was podcasting him.

[00:00:25] Wow, the end of the movie.

[00:00:27] The end, the profound end line.

[00:00:29] Um, very profound.

[00:00:31] At the end of the day, isn't life about the podcast you chase after that you never get to record?

[00:00:37] What's that one for you then?

[00:00:39] For me, Tom Shadyac series.

[00:00:41] Right, that'll always be one year ahead.

[00:00:43] That's the key around my neck. It says Evan Almighty.

[00:00:46] And someday I imagine I'll get to that episode ten years from now.

[00:00:50] Yes.

[00:00:52] I'm chasing...

[00:00:54] I don't know what I'm chasing.

[00:00:56] Penny Marshall, confirmed, next miniseries.

[00:00:59] I'm bringing this back!

[00:01:01] I think so.

[00:01:03] I'm sorry that we have to address this up top.

[00:01:05] It's very boring.

[00:01:08] I watched Jumpin' Jack Flash.

[00:01:10] Correct.

[00:01:12] The first Penny Marshall movie.

[00:01:14] A movie she was hired on late.

[00:01:16] It was supposed to be someone else.

[00:01:18] I don't know why they were like,

[00:01:20] this director isn't working out, let's hire zero-time director Penny Marshall.

[00:01:24] But they did.

[00:01:26] Have you seen Jumpin' Jack Flash?

[00:01:28] No, your comment was you said the most plot in any movie ever.

[00:01:30] Have you seen Jumpin' Jack Flash?

[00:01:32] I have not even heard of this movie.

[00:01:34] It's a particularly well-remembered movie.

[00:01:36] It's an early Whoopi vehicle.

[00:01:38] Sure, it's one of her first.

[00:01:40] About a data entry person who starts talking to a British secret agent on her computer

[00:01:44] and gets sucked into a whole Cold War intrigue spy thriller.

[00:01:48] Am I wrong in thinking that is immediately post-Color Purple

[00:01:52] the first time studios are like,

[00:01:54] let's build a movie around Whoopi?

[00:01:56] Even if it's not build a movie around her,

[00:01:58] it's certainly like,

[00:02:00] she will be...

[00:02:02] Let's give her a script

[00:02:05] and she will be the star.

[00:02:07] It's a weird pick for her

[00:02:09] because

[00:02:11] it's like she's playing

[00:02:13] kind of like a bookish,

[00:02:15] nerdy, desk-bound person.

[00:02:17] This is what's so fascinating about the Whoopster as a movie star.

[00:02:19] The Whoopster?

[00:02:21] I do love the Whoopster.

[00:02:23] She just kind of became undeniably famous, talented, respected

[00:02:25] and then they were like,

[00:02:27] we have no model to fit her into.

[00:02:29] Yeah, that's true.

[00:02:31] That's why she was always getting back in the habit.

[00:02:34] They were often written for men

[00:02:36] and they'd be like, let's rewrite this for Whoopi.

[00:02:38] This movie was written for Shelley Long Griffin.

[00:02:40] Fascinating.

[00:02:42] And the script was seen as problematic.

[00:02:44] Howard Zeef, that guy,

[00:02:46] was the director.

[00:02:48] They fired him and replaced him with Penny Marshall

[00:02:50] and she rewrote the screenplay during production.

[00:02:52] So it was like an insane...

[00:02:54] What is this?

[00:02:56] Jumping Jack Flash is one year after Color Purple.

[00:02:58] It's her second movie.

[00:03:00] She's hot stuff.

[00:03:02] Every Whoopi movie was basically written for someone else

[00:03:04] and at the last second

[00:03:06] they were like, what if we do a dramatic rewrite

[00:03:08] and let Whoopi put her voice in this?

[00:03:10] Anyway, go on.

[00:03:12] Bette Midler, you're correct.

[00:03:14] The role that she had in Star Trek was written for her.

[00:03:16] Yes, of course.

[00:03:18] She demanded it!

[00:03:20] She pulled a Mace Windu.

[00:03:22] She was like, I love Star Trek.

[00:03:24] And Roddenberry fucked with it.

[00:03:26] Roddenberry was like, she's too famous.

[00:03:28] That... jerk.

[00:03:31] Her reps tried to block it from happening

[00:03:33] because they were like,

[00:03:35] if you do TV, you're never coming back.

[00:03:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:03:39] She was right. Guinan, an amazing character.

[00:03:41] Iconic character.

[00:03:43] Jumping Jack Flash. A lot of plots.

[00:03:45] This is all very important for our millennium actors.

[00:03:47] I decided for some reason

[00:03:49] to watch any movie ever

[00:03:51] that depicts

[00:03:53] what I have decreed cyberspace.

[00:03:55] Okay.

[00:03:57] I made a giant list of movies.

[00:03:59] Some of them I've already seen.

[00:04:01] Doesn't sound like you.

[00:04:03] The Matrix.

[00:04:05] Spreadsheet, by any chance?

[00:04:07] It actually did on Letterboxd.

[00:04:09] Letterboxd is sort of the postmodern spreadsheet.

[00:04:11] Can you export to XCO?

[00:04:13] That should be his new tagline,

[00:04:15] the postmodern spreadsheet.

[00:04:17] It's kind of what it is.

[00:04:19] I made a list of 20 and then people started commenting.

[00:04:21] They saw the list and they were like,

[00:04:23] what about this?

[00:04:25] I started adding things.

[00:04:28] I was like, I guess I gotta watch it.

[00:04:30] I watched it and two things happened.

[00:04:32] One, I realized the film does not exist in cyberspace.

[00:04:34] It's just chat room.

[00:04:36] That's interesting. It's an early chat.

[00:04:38] At the time that was cyberspace.

[00:04:40] Somewhat.

[00:04:42] My arbitrary rule was wireframes.

[00:04:44] Ben, I feel like this might speak to you.

[00:04:46] Like the Tron rule.

[00:04:48] I wanted to see some wireframes.

[00:04:50] When we're entering cyberspace.

[00:04:52] Bio-digital jazz.

[00:04:54] Sure.

[00:04:57] What do you mean wireframes?

[00:04:59] Visually, you want to see some wireframes.

[00:05:01] You want to see the holodeck.

[00:05:03] Early Tron animation.

[00:05:05] It looks like chicken coop.

[00:05:07] Sure.

[00:05:09] The other thing I was trying to chart is

[00:05:11] what is the peak?

[00:05:13] Obviously the peak is 1995.

[00:05:15] 1995 is when

[00:05:17] here are the movies.

[00:05:19] Disclosure.

[00:05:21] Virtuosity.

[00:05:23] Hackers. Johnny Mnemonic.

[00:05:25] The Net.

[00:05:27] And over in Japan, Ghost in the Shell.

[00:05:29] Ben was fucking eaten in 1995.

[00:05:31] That is the

[00:05:33] Hollywood collectively

[00:05:35] has the same brain quake

[00:05:37] where people need to have short peroxide hair.

[00:05:39] It'd be like clickety clackin'.

[00:05:41] Everyone has to be called

[00:05:43] Crash, Override.

[00:05:45] I'm in.

[00:05:47] They're always in.

[00:05:49] It can be set in the future.

[00:05:51] It can be set in the present.

[00:05:54] You see it tailing off, but then the Matrix comes

[00:05:56] a few years later.

[00:05:58] A lot of this was seeded

[00:06:00] in bad attempts.

[00:06:02] From 96, 97, 98

[00:06:04] it becomes deep supporting characters.

[00:06:06] It's what

[00:06:08] Jason Schwartzman always calls the go-for-cricket roles.

[00:06:10] I'm in.

[00:06:12] The guy with the...

[00:06:14] But that guy's no longer the center of the movie.

[00:06:16] It's not the main plot point.

[00:06:18] Now he's just yelled at by the main lead

[00:06:20] to speak English.

[00:06:22] It's all too cool for computers.

[00:06:24] In English, please!

[00:06:26] Like I'm 12!

[00:06:30] And that means?

[00:06:32] I watch some awesome

[00:06:34] junkie movies like

[00:06:36] I watch Brainstorm.

[00:06:38] Which is kind of a stretch

[00:06:40] for what I'm going for, but it's very cool.

[00:06:42] I watch

[00:06:44] Brain Scan and Ghost in the Machine

[00:06:46] and The 13th Floor.

[00:06:48] You ever seen The 13th Floor?

[00:06:51] I watched the first two episodes

[00:06:53] of The Matrixes, The Sixth Sense.

[00:06:55] We're kind of doing the same thing

[00:06:57] and everyone's like,

[00:06:59] Don't care, this one's over here.

[00:07:01] I'm going to this one.

[00:07:03] Now our listeners try to constantly

[00:07:05] game out what we're doing next.

[00:07:07] This is the problem.

[00:07:09] I caused a problem by accidentally

[00:07:11] watching Penny Marshall's first film.

[00:07:13] At the time we are recording this episode

[00:07:15] this miniseries has not yet been announced.

[00:07:17] It's a short miniseries.

[00:07:20] They are. You know what?

[00:07:22] You know what?

[00:07:24] There's only a few of them who behave that way, but yes.

[00:07:26] A couple of them are.

[00:07:28] And you had that E's sort of nickname

[00:07:30] before Swifties did.

[00:07:32] We did. We had the blankies thing down.

[00:07:34] That's interesting.

[00:07:36] David logs this.

[00:07:38] This happens constantly

[00:07:40] and then I say to David,

[00:07:42] Hey David, if we're covering a movie on a miniseries

[00:07:44] that hasn't been announced yet, can you wait to log in

[00:07:46] until later? And David says, Nope.

[00:07:48] So I just don't log any

[00:07:50] film I've watched for the podcast

[00:07:52] that has not been announced.

[00:07:54] That's confirmation.

[00:07:56] Because I have the fucking iCal

[00:07:58] of when we recorded. When the series gets announced

[00:08:00] I go back and add the watch dates

[00:08:02] for everything retroactively.

[00:08:04] It's intense.

[00:08:06] But David logs Jumping Jack Flash.

[00:08:08] Someone screenshots it,

[00:08:10] goes onto our Reddit, says Penny Marshall

[00:08:12] miniseries. And usually

[00:08:14] the bit is if we have something on deck

[00:08:17] I start to go, We're never gonna do it.

[00:08:19] So people look for the tea leaves

[00:08:21] of me overselling

[00:08:23] that this will never come up again.

[00:08:25] This will never be discussed.

[00:08:27] I see this Penny Marshall post. I think I'm on the subway

[00:08:29] or something. I'm like in between two things.

[00:08:31] And I see this post and I'm just like

[00:08:33] you know what would be funny? And I just right underneath

[00:08:35] confirmed. And I turn off

[00:08:37] my phone and I go off for the rest of my day

[00:08:39] and then like three hours later

[00:08:41] Maria, David and Ben are telling me.

[00:08:43] It was just Maria who was mad. I was amused.

[00:08:45] You are that meme of

[00:08:47] what's his name? Roman Kendall.

[00:08:49] Yes. Checking his emails.

[00:08:51] But the other part of this

[00:08:53] is for the first couple years of the show

[00:08:55] our joke would always be and of course

[00:08:57] the next miniseries will be Penny Marshall.

[00:08:59] We used to say that. We would say that.

[00:09:01] It would be our version of the

[00:09:03] Sorry Matt Damon had to be cut for time.

[00:09:05] We should do it.

[00:09:07] We're doing it next. I'm confirming it right now.

[00:09:09] Right now. Let's reform.

[00:09:11] We are covering

[00:09:14] We are. I think Maria was really

[00:09:16] just mad at you because this was like one day before

[00:09:18] the live show and suddenly the fans were making like

[00:09:20] eight reddit threads being like so Penny Marshall's

[00:09:22] movies are available here.

[00:09:24] They were basically going all in.

[00:09:26] We had enough to worry about.

[00:09:28] That's how you throw them off the scent so people never know

[00:09:30] we're covering Satoshi Kon.

[00:09:32] Now I'm playing 8 dimensional chess at all times

[00:09:34] with what I watch.

[00:09:36] I'm gonna log four Satoshi

[00:09:38] Kon movies and they're gonna be like

[00:09:40] I don't know though that Jumpin' Jack Flash

[00:09:43] thing really threw me.

[00:09:45] Maybe he's just having fun.

[00:09:47] I will strategically watch and log films

[00:09:49] in groups. Oh my god.

[00:09:51] To have them be like he watched both of these on the same

[00:09:53] day? Hell yeah.

[00:09:55] You could say I could just do this.

[00:09:57] I could do fake logs just for the sake of

[00:09:59] stirring up the pot. No, I'll do it.

[00:10:01] I'll be like I'm gonna watch four Eddie Murphy movies

[00:10:03] this week and have them try to figure out what the fuck is going on.

[00:10:05] Perfect. Yeah.

[00:10:07] And of course they almost figured out the 9th anniversary thing

[00:10:09] when I watched a few 9 movies but then I logged

[00:10:11] my head in a duffel bag and they went crazy.

[00:10:13] They went insane.

[00:10:15] This is all very inside baseball. I'm so sorry.

[00:10:17] No, it's okay. Got em.

[00:10:19] Got em.

[00:10:21] A great film.

[00:10:23] This is Blank Check with Griffin and David.

[00:10:25] I'm Griffin. I'm David.

[00:10:27] It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on

[00:10:29] in their careers and are given a series of blank checks

[00:10:31] to make whatever crazy passion products

[00:10:33] they want and sometimes those checks clear

[00:10:35] and sometimes they bounce baby.

[00:10:37] This is the most tragically cut short career

[00:10:40] Yeah.

[00:10:42] We've covered other people who passed away when it felt like they still had

[00:10:44] good work left in them

[00:10:46] but talk about a guy just making four perfect movies

[00:10:48] and tragically dying before the age of 50.

[00:10:50] Yeah, and he didn't

[00:10:52] he probably didn't really get a

[00:10:54] blank check I guess

[00:10:56] in the way we usually think about it

[00:10:58] but you know he's so

[00:11:00] It's kind of weirdly kind of

[00:11:02] retroactive with him.

[00:11:04] I mean now his films I do feel like loom so large culturally

[00:11:06] and we'll talk about this

[00:11:08] but I feel like a lot of this is just kind of like the mainstreaming

[00:11:10] of Japanese animation since his death

[00:11:12] I feel like Paprika too

[00:11:14] like that's the closest thing he

[00:11:16] I don't know if you have an opinion on this

[00:11:18] like his movies didn't do

[00:11:20] like amazing

[00:11:22] when they were released

[00:11:24] and nonetheless they were so well received

[00:11:26] and his reputation was so strong

[00:11:28] that he would get weirder

[00:11:30] and weirder projects approved

[00:11:32] like he could make Paprika

[00:11:34] even though Tokyo Godfathers was not a big

[00:11:37] No, that's the other thing with him

[00:11:39] his films were big in Japan but they were not huge

[00:11:41] in Japan like his legacy there

[00:11:43] also only grew over time

[00:11:45] Yeah, they were well respected

[00:11:47] I think his legacy only really grew when

[00:11:49] Hollywood directors started

[00:11:51] you know picking up

[00:11:53] his work and kind

[00:11:55] of you know

[00:11:57] not ripping from it but so to speak

[00:11:59] Well I think even more than that

[00:12:01] like a lot of major

[00:12:03] directors who

[00:12:06] count him as a major influence in a lot of

[00:12:08] general and hyper specific ways

[00:12:10] but then also like 10 years of the internet

[00:12:12] being like do you know that actually

[00:12:14] this movie is?

[00:12:16] Like he's a guy whose profile did get raised

[00:12:18] by well actually people

[00:12:20] online constantly

[00:12:22] redirecting everyone to this is the real shit

[00:12:24] Aronofsky is the one who bought

[00:12:26] the rights to Perfect Blue right?

[00:12:28] We'll talk about that on that episode

[00:12:30] It's disputed but yes

[00:12:32] he bought the rights but he never actually

[00:12:34] made them in a very proper way

[00:12:36] But then some people question if he did ever actually

[00:12:38] have the rights? Yes. That's for that episode which we will

[00:12:40] have done at this time. It's a miniseries on the films of

[00:12:42] Satoshi Kon. We're calling it

[00:12:44] Precast

[00:12:46] Satoshi Kon

[00:12:48] Precast

[00:12:50] Now you pitched Perpica

[00:12:52] Cast. No I pitched, ok let me find

[00:12:54] This is the problem. I was running it both ways

[00:12:56] One looks better visually, one sounds better

[00:12:58] out loud

[00:13:00] Pod Precast

[00:13:03] But what you pitched was Podpreca Cast

[00:13:05] I'm trying to find it

[00:13:07] Podpreca Cast is that what I pitched?

[00:13:09] Yes. You know we like to squeeze podcast

[00:13:11] into the title of one of their films

[00:13:13] and his films tend to have fairly

[00:13:15] short titles and there's only

[00:13:17] four of them. So we're already in trouble

[00:13:19] Pod Precast

[00:13:21] Perfect Cast

[00:13:23] So obviously Perfect Podcast

[00:13:25] Tokyo Podfather

[00:13:27] Cast. I don't know. I said

[00:13:29] Podlenium Castris

[00:13:31] Podpreca Cast. Yes

[00:13:33] You said damn that's good

[00:13:35] I did but then I started saying it out loud and I was like

[00:13:37] what's cleaner out loud is Podprecast

[00:13:39] Podprecast

[00:13:41] You're the one who's going to have to say this out loud

[00:13:43] But it looks bad when you just type

[00:13:45] that out

[00:13:47] So this might be one of those like

[00:13:49] which is the real title

[00:13:51] It's Podprecast

[00:13:53] Ok we've decided. Podprecast. Ok

[00:13:55] That's what this is called

[00:13:57] Today we're talking about a second film

[00:14:00] I think it's a masterpiece

[00:14:02] Is this your favorite? Have you seen all his films?

[00:14:04] I haven't seen Tokyo

[00:14:06] Godfathers. Neither have I. That's the one I haven't seen

[00:14:08] I highly recommend. I have seen Tokyo Godfathers

[00:14:10] I highly recommend it. I don't care if you recommend it

[00:14:12] I won't see it. Another masterpiece

[00:14:14] David's abstaining from the episode

[00:14:16] He's recusing himself

[00:14:18] He'll just be silent the entire time

[00:14:20] He'll just be Griffin saying like David what do you think and he'll just be

[00:14:22] nothing. That's the thing that's fascinating about him

[00:14:24] is I feel like three of his movies have now been

[00:14:26] canonized as like these are three of the greatest

[00:14:29] animated films of all time. Tokyo Godfathers is the one

[00:14:31] that's a little ignored and even still people are like

[00:14:33] that one's quietly a masterpiece too

[00:14:35] It's quietly a masterpiece and I will say it's one of the best

[00:14:37] Christmas movies of all time

[00:14:39] Wow. That's intriguing

[00:14:41] Our guest today coming in hot with Hot Takes

[00:14:43] Entertainment Editor, correct title?

[00:14:45] Correct title

[00:14:47] Hell yeah. At Inverse, Hoytranboy

[00:14:49] returned to the show. Thank you so much

[00:14:51] Thank you for having me again. Excited to

[00:14:53] get all millennium up in this

[00:14:55] You were just three millennials

[00:14:57] Are you a millennial?

[00:14:59] I am a millennial, yes

[00:15:01] I'm very firmly a millennial

[00:15:03] We're a couple millennial podcasters

[00:15:05] That's what I'm saying. Look at us

[00:15:07] Someday we'll make a movie about us as old people

[00:15:09] Well obviously this movie is not about a millennial

[00:15:11] No

[00:15:13] She didn't get trophies for finishing

[00:15:15] fifth. I don't know what the millennial trophies are

[00:15:17] I think it is a very millennium movie

[00:15:19] in that sense of like it being

[00:15:21] 2000 and we're being like let's look back

[00:15:23] Yes, right

[00:15:26] How things have changed

[00:15:28] You love this movie

[00:15:30] You have a poster of this movie on your wall

[00:15:32] I do

[00:15:34] You got the poster when you went to see it at the Metrograph

[00:15:36] Was that your first time seeing it?

[00:15:38] No, that was a rewatch

[00:15:40] First time I saw this, I saw this way too young

[00:15:42] I watched this as a child because

[00:15:44] my parents were one of those

[00:15:46] this is an animated movie, you'll probably like this

[00:15:48] Cartoons for kids

[00:15:50] How old were you?

[00:15:52] Oh, I was probably like 10 years old

[00:15:54] It kind of

[00:15:56] It looks cool

[00:15:58] It did blow my mind

[00:16:00] That was the movie, I think it was the first movie I saw

[00:16:02] where I was like wow, movies can be like this

[00:16:04] and then watching more movies

[00:16:06] and realizing oh, only one movie

[00:16:08] can be like this

[00:16:10] It's probably his least

[00:16:12] um, like

[00:16:14] you know, adult movie

[00:16:16] Like it's his PG movie

[00:16:18] Like Perfect Blue, you can't show to a child

[00:16:20] obviously

[00:16:23] Tokyo Godfathers

[00:16:25] I assume there's some

[00:16:27] gunplay

[00:16:29] Not so much

[00:16:31] Do you guys know what Tokyo Godfathers is about?

[00:16:33] I know it's a remake of Three Godfathers

[00:16:35] It's them with a kid

[00:16:37] It's three homeless people

[00:16:39] who discover a kid on Christmas Eve

[00:16:41] That sounds heartwarming

[00:16:43] It's really heartwarming but it's also quite

[00:16:45] sad and melancholy

[00:16:47] Probably the one

[00:16:49] that is by default the most child friendly

[00:16:52] I would say so, yeah

[00:16:54] It's like a Christmas movie in some ways

[00:16:56] It's very Capra-esque

[00:16:58] This movie is very like

[00:17:00] psycho-emotionally sophisticated too

[00:17:02] This is about grown up feelings

[00:17:04] It's not for adults

[00:17:06] as the way that Perfect Blue and Paprika are

[00:17:08] It's not extra violent

[00:17:10] but I would say it's maybe his most mature one

[00:17:12] because it feels like he hones a lot of the themes

[00:17:14] that he picks up

[00:17:16] and kind of explores in Perfect Blue

[00:17:18] and then does in further ways

[00:17:20] It feels like his

[00:17:22] movie for adults in a different sense

[00:17:24] He's exploring other

[00:17:26] mature avenues

[00:17:28] It's one of those movies where it's almost

[00:17:30] Sarah Polly away from her

[00:17:32] Where I'm like, why did you feel compelled to make this movie

[00:17:34] at such a young age?

[00:17:36] And then the fact that he dies so young

[00:17:38] makes it kind of profound

[00:17:40] where it's like, this guy wouldn't live to make this film

[00:17:42] relative to his own experience

[00:17:44] looking back

[00:17:46] The fact that he as a 37 year old

[00:17:49] was able to sort of tap into this feeling

[00:17:51] of an age that he would never make it to

[00:17:53] Yeah, it does feel like

[00:17:55] a late career kind of movie

[00:17:57] Like the movies that Scorsese and

[00:17:59] Tarantino are making later in their

[00:18:01] career after they're done with the violence

[00:18:03] and bloodshed and looking back

[00:18:05] in a much more wistful way

[00:18:07] And he's doing this in the middle of his career

[00:18:09] It's his second movie

[00:18:11] I know. It's not a tough sell

[00:18:13] exactly but it's definitely

[00:18:15] like, if I'm looking

[00:18:17] to break out and make something

[00:18:19] really like, you know

[00:18:21] commercial

[00:18:23] this would not be where I would go

[00:18:25] And I agree with you. Second movie

[00:18:27] it's an amazing movie so whatever

[00:18:29] Go off, King. Perfect Blue also didn't

[00:18:31] explode as much as it was well regarded

[00:18:33] It had the benefit

[00:18:35] Perfect Blue is fucked up! Sorry

[00:18:37] When it came out, it had the benefit of

[00:18:39] it was meant to be direct-to-video

[00:18:41] It gets bumped up to theatrical

[00:18:43] so it was seen as overperforming

[00:18:46] overdelivering in the

[00:18:48] Moana 2 way of like, look

[00:18:50] no one expected anything from this

[00:18:52] I like that you're talking about Moana 2, a movie that has not come out yet

[00:18:54] We were just talking before recording

[00:18:56] about the new thing of like, put everything

[00:18:58] in theaters. Yes. It's the mean girls

[00:19:00] of movies. I don't care if it's

[00:19:02] pure garbage. People will

[00:19:04] There is a Don't Tell Mom the

[00:19:06] Babysitter's Dead remake that will have been

[00:19:08] out in theaters by the time this episode comes

[00:19:10] out and at the time we're recording

[00:19:12] there is no trailer for it

[00:19:15] Why bother cutting a trailer? Who cares?

[00:19:17] Produced for BET Plus and now they're deciding

[00:19:19] it's only in theaters

[00:19:21] What that is, is just

[00:19:23] it's so maddening to imagine

[00:19:25] the conversations people have. Did you know that we get

[00:19:27] like a cut of ticket sales?

[00:19:29] That's money! Wait a second

[00:19:31] We need that. Right. And you're telling me

[00:19:33] with this plan there are multiple

[00:19:35] steps, like the movie has multiple steps

[00:19:37] It comes out here, then on VOD

[00:19:39] then when to streaming?

[00:19:41] It's almost like you're leaving money on the table

[00:19:43] We put it to streaming, we actually don't

[00:19:45] sell any tickets. That's so weird

[00:19:47] Why were we doing that again?

[00:19:49] What was the deal with that? We put Dune

[00:19:51] on streaming? We did that, right?

[00:19:53] Dune, that movie

[00:19:55] And certainly that made us more money than when we

[00:19:57] put it in theaters. Oh no wait. The Matrix

[00:19:59] we put that one right onto streaming

[00:20:01] Right there. Good

[00:20:03] Anyway, it's fine. It's good that they did that

[00:20:05] Everything's good

[00:20:07] Yeah, no, I got this

[00:20:09] I imported

[00:20:12] the British version of Millennium Attress

[00:20:14] because it was the only place where they

[00:20:16] released it in 4K

[00:20:18] I have the steelbook but it's a Blu-ray

[00:20:20] And it is one of the last

[00:20:22] major animated films to

[00:20:24] actually be done on

[00:20:26] cells. Hell yeah

[00:20:28] At an era where Disney had already

[00:20:30] transitioned to digital and could pay

[00:20:32] like 10 plus years earlier

[00:20:34] Most of Japan, the major

[00:20:36] work had as well. This is kind of seen as

[00:20:38] the last significant

[00:20:40] work through the gates of purely

[00:20:42] like people painting on physical

[00:20:44] things and then using cameras to shoot it

[00:20:46] And they did this 4K restoration

[00:20:48] that I think led into it getting its sort

[00:20:50] of re-release, it playing in Metrograph

[00:20:52] a bunch. They did a new

[00:20:54] US dub and

[00:20:56] restored the original version

[00:21:00] Yeah, I checked in with the dub. It seemed fine

[00:21:02] I watched Dub this time

[00:21:04] because I had seen it. I hadn't seen it until

[00:21:06] it was playing at the Metrograph a couple years ago

[00:21:09] I saw that version in the original Japanese

[00:21:11] The American dub is good

[00:21:13] It's funny to watch

[00:21:15] I'm sure we said this a billion times in the fucking Miyazaki episodes

[00:21:17] It's funny to watch

[00:21:19] the films with the English

[00:21:21] dubs but the translation

[00:21:23] subtitles

[00:21:25] Because it's always just that they try to make everything

[00:21:27] more conversational where the lines

[00:21:29] are almost exactly the same except they add a bunch of

[00:21:31] like, you know, I mean come on man

[00:21:33] Yeah, the localization of just dumbing things down

[00:21:35] in a way

[00:21:38] Yeah, I just sort of switched over to it

[00:21:40] because I realized it existed and it was like

[00:21:42] hmm, seems fine. But this movie works

[00:21:44] It does. It's odd in English

[00:21:46] in a way because

[00:21:48] any movie that's literally about Japanese people

[00:21:50] The history. It's so much about Japanese history

[00:21:52] and Japanese cinema specifically

[00:21:54] Yes, yes. Which I think was

[00:21:56] a very cool thing to see. I feel like very rarely

[00:21:58] we see even Japanese films

[00:22:00] kind of go so deeply into Japanese cinema

[00:22:02] and like a love story for that

[00:22:04] A love letter rather. And a love story

[00:22:06] I have one dub complaint about Miyazaki

[00:22:08] because my daughter watches a lot of Miyazaki

[00:22:10] Now she's watching Castle in the Sky

[00:22:12] Love that movie. Which is not appropriate

[00:22:14] No, I was gonna say I'm surprised you got there

[00:22:16] How old is she again? She's three!

[00:22:18] She's way too young for that

[00:22:20] It has like guns and pirates and explosions

[00:22:22] Yeah, Mark Hamill being scary

[00:22:24] Yeah, Mark Hamill very

[00:22:26] So his performance in the dub, excellent

[00:22:28] Unsurprisingly. He's a pro

[00:22:30] And she loves it

[00:22:32] She loves the robots

[00:22:35] That's what she says

[00:22:37] James Van Der Beek is

[00:22:39] He should be

[00:22:41] He should have a couple years in jail for that one

[00:22:43] Just a couple

[00:22:45] I've noticed

[00:22:47] that in the prior Terrible English dub

[00:22:49] and in the original

[00:22:51] that character's played by a woman

[00:22:53] And I think he's kind of trying to go for

[00:22:55] the sort of very shrill, high

[00:22:57] little kid voice

[00:22:59] But he's so annoying in it

[00:23:01] And I'm just hearing his voice constantly

[00:23:03] Shut up, Van Der Beek

[00:23:05] Yeah, a lot of that

[00:23:07] And there's a lot of yelling in that movie

[00:23:09] That's the other fascinating thing

[00:23:11] I know we're going all around here

[00:23:13] But 90s, 2000s are the era

[00:23:15] of Disney and Miramax

[00:23:17] trying to figure out how to make Miyazaki

[00:23:19] translate to American audiences

[00:23:21] and doing these star-driven dubs

[00:23:23] And none of them totally hit

[00:23:25] in theaters

[00:23:27] It's seen as a major success that Spirited Away

[00:23:29] gets to like six

[00:23:32] or whatever it does and wins an Oscar obviously

[00:23:34] But it's still like this is never going to be seen as mainstream

[00:23:36] It remains insane to like

[00:23:38] think about how

[00:23:40] recently a Miyazaki movie just made 50 million

[00:23:42] dollars in theaters domestic

[00:23:44] Opened at number one

[00:23:46] So happy it won the Oscar

[00:23:48] Deservedly won the Oscar

[00:23:50] Didn't feel like a weird oddball choice

[00:23:52] No, this was a movie that permeated

[00:23:54] American popular culture

[00:23:56] I low-key thought it was going to win

[00:23:58] And it was because it had the financial success

[00:24:01] And even the people who weren't familiar

[00:24:03] with the movie were like, oh yeah Miyazaki's going to win

[00:24:05] because he's Miyazaki

[00:24:07] But he lost for Howl

[00:24:09] Everything in between, Wind Rises and Ponyo

[00:24:11] He wasn't nominated for Ponyo

[00:24:13] Which I was very upset about

[00:24:15] At the time and now

[00:24:17] Weinstein trying to make

[00:24:19] the Miyazakis work, re-editing

[00:24:21] rewriting a lot, casting them poorly

[00:24:23] Then Disney putting a lot of them only

[00:24:25] out on home video

[00:24:27] I have a soft spot for the Mononoke dub

[00:24:29] The Mononoke dub is alright

[00:24:31] There's some weird choices

[00:24:33] I'll put it that way

[00:24:35] Thornton, Crudup, Danes

[00:24:37] Mini Driver

[00:24:39] Got some good stuff going on there

[00:24:41] Just an era of

[00:24:43] It felt like you would constantly be reading

[00:24:45] As a dumb animation kid

[00:24:47] Who was reading about this stuff all the time

[00:24:49] Took a while for me to actually get into Miyazaki

[00:24:51] But it would be like

[00:24:53] Why don't American audiences accept this?

[00:24:55] Here are the greatest films in the world

[00:24:58] They play well everywhere else

[00:25:00] Here they're punted to being art house stuff

[00:25:02] Or Disney will only release them on VHS

[00:25:04] And put whoever the

[00:25:06] teen star du jour

[00:25:08] The Vanderbeeks of the world

[00:25:10] In to try to get them in there

[00:25:12] They lucked out with Kirsten Dunst at least

[00:25:14] Sometimes they nailed it

[00:25:16] I'm now watching all the dubs

[00:25:18] They are fine

[00:25:20] I as someone who grew up on the dubs

[00:25:22] I genuinely have a soft spot for them

[00:25:24] Even though I do prefer the subs

[00:25:26] I think that mostly they're okay

[00:25:28] I'm very used to the Ponyo dub obviously

[00:25:30] I've talked about the Totoro dub

[00:25:32] Where the fanning sisters

[00:25:34] Have southern twang

[00:25:36] Which is really funny for a movie

[00:25:38] That's set in rural Japan

[00:25:40] They're trying to go for the rural aspect

[00:25:42] A little too hard

[00:25:44] Are you a great big suck gremlin?

[00:25:46] That's a line reading I've heard 50 million times now

[00:25:48] The point I'm trying to wind up to

[00:25:50] What are you winding up to?

[00:25:52] You have big actress

[00:25:55] 90's, 2000's

[00:25:57] This arms race between Disney and Dreamworks

[00:25:59] Katzenberg leaving

[00:26:01] Starting his own animation wing

[00:26:03] And being like I've got to fucking beat them at their own game

[00:26:05] We're doing hand drawn, we're doing CGI

[00:26:07] CGI is working, we're shutting down hand drawn

[00:26:09] Dreamworks very briefly

[00:26:11] Establishes a label called

[00:26:13] Go Fish Pictures

[00:26:15] Which they could never quite figure out

[00:26:17] What it was

[00:26:19] But this was released by Go Fish

[00:26:21] I get it because the Dreamworks

[00:26:24] Guy is fishing

[00:26:26] So he's pulled up some foreign films

[00:26:28] From the lake of art

[00:26:30] Is this Fox Searchlight for us?

[00:26:32] Sure

[00:26:34] Is this acquisitions of independent form

[00:26:36] They released Ghost in the Shell 2

[00:26:38] But they also put out The Chum Scrubber

[00:26:40] Which is one of the most disastrous

[00:26:42] Was that a Sundance movie?

[00:26:44] That cost 10 million

[00:26:46] What is that about?

[00:26:48] The Chum Scrubber

[00:26:50] Stars our buddy Jamie Bell

[00:26:52] I would say, kindly it is a disastrous film

[00:26:54] About like a

[00:26:56] Suburban

[00:26:58] Teenage malaise

[00:27:00] Disenfranchisement

[00:27:02] What was the other one?

[00:27:04] There was another film that was the exact fucking same vibe

[00:27:06] United States of Leland

[00:27:08] That's one but that's Gosling right?

[00:27:10] No

[00:27:12] Oh Thumbsucker

[00:27:14] Thumbsucker and Chum Scrubber

[00:27:16] How am I not confusing them?

[00:27:18] Those are not the same movies

[00:27:21] Chum Scrubber though

[00:27:23] He's scrubbing chum

[00:27:25] Why is he? Meet Generation RX

[00:27:27] It says

[00:27:29] It has something to do with sharks though right?

[00:27:31] What I had is like a shark spin

[00:27:33] What's it about?

[00:27:37] Suicide of a drug dealer

[00:27:39] In an idealistic but superficial town

[00:27:41] Lack of communication between teenagers and their parents

[00:27:43] The inauthenticity of suburbia

[00:27:45] It's one of those movies

[00:27:47] Are they trying to do like train spotting

[00:27:49] Or like yeah modern Burton

[00:27:51] Like 2000's Burton

[00:27:53] Where it's like he never figured out like a suburbia bullshit man

[00:27:55] But what if you removed all genre elements?

[00:27:59] But where does he scrub the chum?

[00:28:01] Everywhere

[00:28:03] What does that mean?

[00:28:05] Why is it called that?

[00:28:07] Why did a studio allow a movie to be called Chum Scrubber?

[00:28:09] Lex G in a recent podcast episode referred to the early 2000's era

[00:28:11] Of the special little guy movies

[00:28:13] Like clever little guys

[00:28:15] Where it's like the Igby goes down

[00:28:18] Do you think that morphs into the Leland Chum Scrubber

[00:28:20] Miserable little guy?

[00:28:22] 100%

[00:28:24] There's good versions like

[00:28:26] Catch of the Ripe

[00:28:28] Minus The Charm

[00:28:30] Is Donnie Darko part of that?

[00:28:32] Chum Scrubber is also a long tail Donnie Darko movie

[00:28:34] But the entire Go Fish Pictures

[00:28:36] Arc is

[00:28:38] They acquire Ghost in the Shell 2

[00:28:40] And Millennium Actress

[00:28:42] And they're like this is us trying to like compete

[00:28:44] With Disney having the Miyazaki thing

[00:28:47] We're trying to popularize our own

[00:28:49] Important Japanese animation over here

[00:28:51] Millennium Actress gets great reviews

[00:28:53] Does not get a major release

[00:28:55] Ghost in the Shell I think does pretty well in theaters

[00:28:57] But it gets an Oscar nomination

[00:28:59] But that movie is really weird

[00:29:01] If you saw Ghost in the Shell 1

[00:29:03] Congratulations

[00:29:05] 2, you're already confused

[00:29:07] It's a weirder movie than what the reputation would have you believe

[00:29:11] But like Ghost in the Shell

[00:29:13] It rocks

[00:29:15] It's a mega intensely coherent plot

[00:29:17] And Ghost in the Shell 2 is him being like

[00:29:19] That movie was like too normal

[00:29:23] But it had like grown on like DVD

[00:29:25] Over the years

[00:29:27] It got a reasonable release

[00:29:29] They do those two movies

[00:29:31] It's like Go Fish might have their thing kind of figured out

[00:29:33] They spend a ton of money on Chum Scrubber

[00:29:35] Chum Scrubber comes out

[00:29:37] It makes I believe $35,000

[00:29:39] No Griffin

[00:29:41] It made $350,000

[00:29:44] That's worldwide

[00:29:46] Give me the domestic number

[00:29:48] Let's see

[00:29:50] You're right

[00:29:52] So Chum Scrubber scrubbed them clean

[00:29:54] It made about $50,000 in the US

[00:29:56] And $350,000 worldwide

[00:29:58] Basically right after Chum Scrubber announced

[00:30:00] Go Fish Pictures is done

[00:30:02] It's about 1 20th of a black hat

[00:30:04] Prize winner of Defiance Idaho

[00:30:06] Comes out like two months after that

[00:30:08] And they had a pre-existing deal

[00:30:10] For Casern which is a

[00:30:12] Yeah

[00:30:14] I just think it's interesting

[00:30:16] They had this brief window

[00:30:18] Where they were like

[00:30:20] Our competitiveness with Disney

[00:30:22] Is forcing us to broaden Japanese animation

[00:30:24] In American theaters

[00:30:26] And in both of those cases

[00:30:28] They didn't do like star driven dubs

[00:30:30] The Millennium Actress dub was just like

[00:30:32] Good American voice actors

[00:30:34] They put it out in specialty theaters

[00:30:36] This movie didn't get an Oscar nomination

[00:30:38] Because of the weirdness of it coming out

[00:30:41] Is it the same fall as Tokyo Godfathers?

[00:30:43] Yeah it came out in America in 2003

[00:30:45] Yes

[00:30:47] Obviously it came out in Japan in 2001

[00:30:49] So right

[00:30:51] No it actually came out in Japan in 2002

[00:30:53] I'm sorry

[00:30:55] It was at festivals in 2001

[00:30:57] So you know it took a long time to reach here

[00:30:59] And then both films come out in 2003

[00:31:01] Both are up for Oscar

[00:31:03] Submitted and I think they kind of competed

[00:31:05] With each other

[00:31:07] The Oscar nominees for animated film

[00:31:10] Do you want to guess?

[00:31:12] Triplets of Belleville

[00:31:14] And

[00:31:16] Belleville I'm sorry

[00:31:18] Brother Bear

[00:31:20] Um

[00:31:22] Yes correct

[00:31:24] In a year with five

[00:31:26] One of these two movies probably would have gotten them

[00:31:28] Trips to Belleville

[00:31:30] Remember that?

[00:31:32] Guy was playing a bicycle at the Oscars

[00:31:34] They had a song nominated

[00:31:36] Belleville

[00:31:38] And they did a performance

[00:31:40] You know it was one of those things

[00:31:42] Where people are like are they going to perform this?

[00:31:44] And they did and there's like a guy on stage

[00:31:46] Who's like whacking a bicycle

[00:31:48] Like just hitting a rusty bike

[00:31:50] It's fun

[00:31:52] Great movie

[00:31:54] You should watch the musical

[00:31:56] Musical performance

[00:31:58] A guy who also kind of weirdly disappeared

[00:32:00] Sylvain Chomé

[00:32:02] He made one movie after that

[00:32:04] He made the Jacques Tati movie

[00:32:07] The Illusionist

[00:32:09] Which I liked too

[00:32:11] I think he directed one live action film in France

[00:32:13] And then disappeared after that

[00:32:15] This one was about wokeness

[00:32:17] I'm joking

[00:32:19] It's called

[00:32:21] Attila Marcel

[00:32:23] Who was in it?

[00:32:25] Guillaume Guy

[00:32:27] I don't know

[00:32:29] No one I really know

[00:32:31] Seems like it went okay

[00:32:33] I did not see this when I was too young

[00:32:35] I probably should have

[00:32:37] I remember reading the reviews

[00:32:39] I was still in my I don't understand anime phase

[00:32:41] Which took me a while to get over

[00:32:43] But I remember reading the reviews

[00:32:45] And everyone's take on it being like

[00:32:47] It's weird that this is animated

[00:32:49] Like even the critics who liked it

[00:32:51] I think A.O. Scott was very positive on this movie

[00:32:53] We're all like

[00:32:55] It's an odd film to make an animation

[00:32:57] Because it's pretty grounded in reality

[00:32:59] He gave it a critics pick

[00:33:01] But yeah I think American critics

[00:33:04] Cartoons have to be genre films

[00:33:06] They didn't understand

[00:33:08] They didn't understand how you can maybe

[00:33:10] Blur the lines between reality and fantasy

[00:33:12] In interesting ways

[00:33:14] In this medium

[00:33:18] David

[00:33:20] I'll admit it makes me a little self conscious

[00:33:22] Hosting a podcast?

[00:33:24] Hosting a podcast that's produced by Ben Hosley

[00:33:26] Because every time I walk into our studio

[00:33:28] I know I'm not going to be the best dressed person in the room

[00:33:30] Sorry

[00:33:32] I just know it

[00:33:34] There's nothing I can do to beat him

[00:33:36] There's no service, there's no company

[00:33:38] No one can help me

[00:33:40] Yep that's it

[00:33:42] There's no one who's going to help you

[00:33:44] Wait a second

[00:33:46] What about a fully custom suit from Indochino

[00:33:48] You walk into a wedding season

[00:33:50] Into a wedding season

[00:33:52] Looking like a million bucks

[00:33:54] Even though they just started $4.99

[00:33:56] To be clear $499

[00:33:58] Not $4.99

[00:34:00] That would be absurd

[00:34:03] Let's also make it clear

[00:34:05] Good for a wedding season but also just

[00:34:07] Good for a weekly podcast record

[00:34:09] If you happen to be on a podcast produced by the best dressed man in New York City

[00:34:11] Start showing up in custom suits

[00:34:13] This podcast I might be annoyed

[00:34:15] Indochino

[00:34:17] The whole thing with Indochino

[00:34:19] It's not off the rack or whatever

[00:34:21] These are custom made suits

[00:34:23] You go to the website

[00:34:25] You shop your menswear

[00:34:27] Obviously they don't just have suits

[00:34:29] They have jackets

[00:34:32] They have bespoke clothing

[00:34:34] It just takes a few minutes

[00:34:36] You pick your suit

[00:34:38] And then you can customize it

[00:34:40] Make it a tuxedo

[00:34:42] You can change the jacket style

[00:34:44] You can change the lapels

[00:34:46] You can change the vents

[00:34:48] Every single thing is up to you

[00:34:50] Or you can just go with what they want

[00:34:52] If that's overwhelming

[00:34:54] Indochino has great custom built suits

[00:34:56] That you can just take

[00:34:58] And they're bespoke without the premium price tag

[00:35:00] You can choose customizations without ever leaving the house

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[00:35:39] When you see this as a 10 year old

[00:35:41] I assume this is the first of his films you had seen

[00:35:43] Did you see it in theaters?

[00:35:45] I saw it, I wanna say that my parents rented it on Netflix

[00:35:47] Like the disc

[00:35:49] Yeah the disc

[00:35:51] Because a long time my parents had the disc

[00:35:53] Do you think they rented it for you

[00:35:55] Because they were like, it's a cartoon

[00:35:57] Was there more thought put into it

[00:35:59] Than like, here's a new animated film

[00:36:01] They would just rent movies

[00:36:03] That they're like, oh this sounds good

[00:36:05] And then they see it's a cartoon so they let me watch it

[00:36:07] Right

[00:36:09] So it was their choice that they looped you in on

[00:36:11] Yes

[00:36:13] They were very open with the kind of movies that I would watch

[00:36:15] As a kid mostly if they were cartoons

[00:36:17] We stand

[00:36:19] What's like

[00:36:21] What's a cartoon you watched

[00:36:23] That was too grown up for you

[00:36:26] Oh obviously

[00:36:28] I do remember watching Princess Mononoke too young

[00:36:30] And being like, there's a lot of beheading in this movie

[00:36:32] There's a lot of blood

[00:36:34] My daughter cannot see that one

[00:36:36] That one I draw the line

[00:36:38] It's very violent

[00:36:40] She's watching Wind Rises though

[00:36:42] I put on Kiki for her and she was bored by it

[00:36:44] Anyway, care about it

[00:36:46] Bored by Kiki? Alright

[00:36:48] The early 2000s growing up then

[00:36:50] Was very interesting because there was that explosion

[00:36:52] Of anime

[00:36:55] The anime wave

[00:36:57] Yeah it was just like the anime wave

[00:36:59] That was taking place in the late 90s early 2000s

[00:37:01] And I think that was making anime in general

[00:37:03] More accessible

[00:37:05] And something that my parents were specifically

[00:37:07] Open to just letting me kind of

[00:37:09] Try whatever

[00:37:11] And read whatever and watch whatever

[00:37:13] So it was basically just like

[00:37:15] I could choose because they weren't really vetting it

[00:37:17] Did they let you watch Ghost in the Shell

[00:37:19] I didn't watch Ghost in the Shell

[00:37:21] I wasn't interested in that

[00:37:23] I would sit down at the rental shelf

[00:37:25] And be like this looks really scary

[00:37:27] Yeah I was like this looks scary

[00:37:29] I don't want that

[00:37:31] So watching this you felt like you had a sense of context

[00:37:33] For this film being unusual

[00:37:35] Yeah it was definitely

[00:37:37] Very unusual for me as a kid

[00:37:39] Just because

[00:37:41] Even not knowing everything that was happening

[00:37:43] And the inspirations

[00:37:45] That it took from real life Japanese actresses

[00:37:47] Or the real Japanese history

[00:37:49] That it was portraying

[00:37:52] Just the way that it was made

[00:37:54] Was so new to me in general

[00:37:56] And not just being an animated film

[00:37:58] But because it was

[00:38:00] I'm going to cite a YouTube video

[00:38:02] That I'm sure many people have seen

[00:38:04] But the Every Frame a Painting video

[00:38:06] On Satoshi Kon and Editing Time and Space

[00:38:08] And he specifically talks about

[00:38:10] The way the editing is done

[00:38:12] Not in all of his movies

[00:38:14] But I think a lot of the way that he does it

[00:38:16] In Millennium Actress

[00:38:18] Where it just goes from scene to scene

[00:38:20] And sometimes a scene will interrupt the next

[00:38:22] And then the reality will converge on each other

[00:38:24] The modern day will start interacting with

[00:38:26] The past and that kind of thing

[00:38:28] And that was something that really blew my mind as a kid

[00:38:30] So I was really taken and dazzled by that

[00:38:32] It blows my mind as a 37 year old

[00:38:34] You don't see movies do shit like this

[00:38:36] You don't see movies do shit like that

[00:38:38] But it's subtle what it's doing

[00:38:40] Like it's not like Gonzo

[00:38:42] Right

[00:38:44] His other films can certainly go full Gonzo

[00:38:46] I mean like

[00:38:49] The backbone of Satoshi Kon as an artist

[00:38:51] Is like subjective perception of reality

[00:38:53] Right

[00:38:55] And this sort of like blending between

[00:38:57] Fantasy, imagination

[00:38:59] Identity

[00:39:01] And this is a movie doing that in a

[00:39:03] Ostensibly very grounded way

[00:39:05] It's using this framing device of

[00:39:07] Being elderly, looking back

[00:39:09] Memory, senility perhaps coming in

[00:39:11] In a way that allows you to sort of

[00:39:13] Build that into the framework of the story

[00:39:15] In a more, I don't know

[00:39:18] Literal minded way

[00:39:20] But yes, it's like a movie that does not

[00:39:22] Hold your hand

[00:39:24] That doesn't give you easy signifiers

[00:39:26] For when reality is shifting

[00:39:28] Yeah

[00:39:30] And I think the way that it kind of holds itself back

[00:39:32] In terms of how wild and Gonzo

[00:39:34] It can get in terms of

[00:39:36] Blurring the reality in fiction

[00:39:38] And pushing the boundaries

[00:39:40] Of animation

[00:39:42] Makes it so that a lot of

[00:39:44] Maybe the critics at the time kind of overlooked

[00:39:46] Because it's a movie that really couldn't have been made

[00:39:48] In live action at least to the degree that it was

[00:39:50] In this medium

[00:39:52] That was totally his take

[00:39:54] And pitch on the thing

[00:39:56] I was reading this

[00:39:58] The booklet that came with the

[00:40:00] Fancy Schmancy Blu-ray release I got

[00:40:02] But also all the notes that JJ pulled up

[00:40:04] And there's a really interesting thing

[00:40:06] It might have been in the perfect blue dossier

[00:40:08] But him talking about how

[00:40:10] He thinks the key to art

[00:40:12] Is there being like a step in

[00:40:15] And that he feels like

[00:40:17] A lot of movies are based on movies

[00:40:19] And filmmakers are inspired by other

[00:40:21] Filmmakers primarily

[00:40:23] And that his background, his training

[00:40:25] Was in illustration

[00:40:27] But then once he sort of built

[00:40:29] His muscles as like a draftsman

[00:40:31] Sure

[00:40:33] He then started obsessively studying live action films

[00:40:35] And was like I was not really paying attention

[00:40:37] To what was going on in animation

[00:40:39] I wasn't looking to my contemporaries

[00:40:41] I didn't want animation to be inspiring

[00:40:43] I really was looking to live action

[00:40:45] And thinking what are things you could do

[00:40:47] With the live action language of storytelling

[00:40:49] And then plussing that with animation

[00:40:51] And this is

[00:40:53] Yeah it's a script that like

[00:40:55] I just saw

[00:40:57] Fucking

[00:40:59] One from the heart

[00:41:01] Is in re-release right now

[00:41:03] In a weird re-edited version by Coppola

[00:41:05] Yes which I've heard some people say

[00:41:07] Is actually maybe not an improvement

[00:41:09] I think it might be worse

[00:41:12] Yeah

[00:41:14] But that is very much a movie

[00:41:16] Without it being as baked into the story

[00:41:18] Or the themes or the premise

[00:41:20] Where Coppola was like what if there are no normal transitions

[00:41:22] What if like images blur into one another

[00:41:24] And the camera moves

[00:41:26] And time and space change

[00:41:28] And all this sort of stuff

[00:41:30] And in order to do that live action

[00:41:32] He bankrupted himself

[00:41:34] Like he drove himself crazy

[00:41:36] And put himself in a financial hole

[00:41:38] Versus Satoshi Kon was able to do that

[00:41:41] While also producing one of the cheapest

[00:41:43] Animated films ever

[00:41:45] This movie was made adjusted for inflation

[00:41:47] The budget of this film

[00:41:49] Is still beyond 1 million dollars

[00:41:51] Incredible

[00:41:53] It is crazy

[00:41:55] Yes produced it in 2 years

[00:41:57] Did it on cell animation

[00:41:59] But it's like he was very strategic

[00:42:01] About how he did it

[00:42:03] And for how beautiful this movie is

[00:42:05] You study it and for a lot of it

[00:42:07] There's like almost no motion on screen

[00:42:09] He used a lot of pencils and paper

[00:42:11] From the garbage too

[00:42:13] Is that true?

[00:42:15] David is making things up

[00:42:17] Let me crack open the dossier

[00:42:19] So

[00:42:21] Perfect Blue

[00:42:23] It's a little film that Satoshi Kon makes

[00:42:25] That comes out

[00:42:27] What should I make next

[00:42:29] He wants to make Paprika

[00:42:31] Adaptation of the novel

[00:42:33] And that fizzles out

[00:42:35] Because Rex Entertainment

[00:42:38] Who financed Perfect Blue

[00:42:40] Said we don't have the money for that

[00:42:42] They went bankrupt

[00:42:44] So he contributes some work

[00:42:46] To some other directors

[00:42:48] The only project that JJ can find

[00:42:50] That's listed

[00:42:52] Is a movie called Jinro the Wolf Brigade

[00:42:54] Some other stuff

[00:42:56] Who knows

[00:42:58] But Millennium Actress

[00:43:00] He traces to Taro Maki

[00:43:02] Producer on this film

[00:43:04] The producer of this film I believe

[00:43:06] Perfect Blue and loved how it moved

[00:43:08] From objective to subjective storytelling

[00:43:10] Seamlessly

[00:43:12] That's interesting

[00:43:14] Compares this bending of reality

[00:43:16] To the Trompe l'oeil

[00:43:18] How do you say this

[00:43:20] I was trying to practice it

[00:43:22] Trompe l'oeil

[00:43:24] You know

[00:43:26] Ben, you know when you paint

[00:43:28] Something and it kind of makes it look 3D

[00:43:30] Like back in fucking

[00:43:32] Castle times

[00:43:35] You see this all the time

[00:43:37] With street artists

[00:43:39] Who try to paint

[00:43:41] Or draw on the sidewalk

[00:43:43] Images that from certain angles

[00:43:45] Will look like the illusion of depth

[00:43:47] You know if the roadrunner paints

[00:43:49] Kind of like a tunnel

[00:43:51] That's the best way to put it

[00:43:53] It's a classic roadrunner

[00:43:55] No, it's like the coyote paints the tunnel

[00:43:57] And then the roadrunner will go through it

[00:43:59] It's a really good gag

[00:44:01] Whoever thought of that

[00:44:04] Wiley Coyote paints tunnel

[00:44:06] Rubs his hands together

[00:44:08] Bib around neck

[00:44:10] Fork and knife

[00:44:12] Licking lips, ready to go

[00:44:14] You know what's funny

[00:44:16] Looney Tunes

[00:44:18] Roadrunner goes through a tunnel without a problem

[00:44:20] Wiley Coyote is confused

[00:44:22] Then goes I'll chase after him

[00:44:24] He immediately slams into the wall

[00:44:26] What a freak

[00:44:28] Perfect

[00:44:30] 10 out of 10

[00:44:32] Taramaki compares

[00:44:34] Satoshi Kon's storytelling style

[00:44:36] To right

[00:44:38] Also his visual style

[00:44:40] It's a good handle

[00:44:42] On basically his entire

[00:44:44] Worldview as an artist

[00:44:46] Right and his voice

[00:44:48] What if everything was possible

[00:44:50] And also this kind of

[00:44:52] Constant shifting of reality

[00:44:54] Relative to perception of like

[00:44:56] What looks flat actually might have a dimension

[00:44:58] That you didn't perceive from the previous angle

[00:45:01] Yes

[00:45:03] So

[00:45:05] Basically he's like do you want to make another movie like that

[00:45:07] Right

[00:45:09] Perfect Blue has gotten my attention

[00:45:11] So the word stereogram

[00:45:13] Is also brought up a lot

[00:45:15] As a sort of translation of this

[00:45:17] Concept that they're thinking about

[00:45:19] Where you know depending on what angle

[00:45:21] You're looking at

[00:45:23] Is a term they use in Japan for this type of art

[00:45:25] The picture will change

[00:45:27] If you look at it from different directions

[00:45:29] So he's like it's not like I want to make another suspense movie

[00:45:31] Like a thriller like Perfect Blue was

[00:45:33] Um

[00:45:35] The method itself

[00:45:37] Is the aim of the movie

[00:45:39] Which is a very interesting way of putting it

[00:45:41] Yeah because this is not an obvious

[00:45:43] If that's the assignment

[00:45:45] This is not the obvious movie to land on

[00:45:47] Yeah

[00:45:49] If you're coming off of Perfect Blue and they go do another thing

[00:45:51] With a weird sense of reality

[00:45:53] I just want to credit JJ here because I think he wrote this very well

[00:45:55] So Kon had his method

[00:45:58] He didn't yet have a story

[00:46:00] Naturally he turned to the two oldest stories in the book

[00:46:02] Boy Hero Science Fiction

[00:46:04] Or Senile Old Lady Costume Play

[00:46:06] But if I was on the count

[00:46:10] He said I look for a story like a stereogram

[00:46:12] I came up with several ideas

[00:46:14] Science Fiction with a boy hero

[00:46:16] A senile old lady in a costume play

[00:46:18] Something like that

[00:46:20] I wrote them down

[00:46:22] I tried to decide which one to choose

[00:46:24] You can just imagine him saying that to the producer

[00:46:26] He's like I'm either going to go like boy does science fiction

[00:46:28] And he's like I'm going to flip a coin

[00:46:30] And it lands on the old lady

[00:46:32] And they're like great

[00:46:34] Calls him

[00:46:36] I'm going to go with the lady

[00:46:38] Okay let's go with the lady

[00:46:40] So thinking about this

[00:46:42] Make the protagonist an actress

[00:46:44] Actors and actresses work both in fantasy and reality

[00:46:46] A perfect situation for this kind of a tricky world

[00:46:48] But also on his blog before he died

[00:46:50] He said some years later

[00:46:52] That a friend of his had emailed him

[00:46:54] In 1998

[00:46:57] With the phrase imaginary great actress

[00:46:59] That like stuck with him

[00:47:01] It is kind of evocative

[00:47:03] This is the whole thing with a filmmaker like this

[00:47:05] Because he died but he left behind interviews

[00:47:07] And blog posts

[00:47:09] You can really pour over everything

[00:47:11] In the record

[00:47:13] In this kind of not obsessive way

[00:47:15] But just this kind of archival way

[00:47:17] Of like everything he said is sort of interesting

[00:47:19] Especially because he made a movie like this

[00:47:21] That is not

[00:47:23] The kind of movie people make

[00:47:26] In either field

[00:47:28] I mean I guess in a live action

[00:47:30] It's like being Julia

[00:47:32] It's like the bad version of this movie

[00:47:34] Sure

[00:47:36] Like an actress is like oh I had some roles

[00:47:38] In my day

[00:47:40] I think a lot about Babylon

[00:47:42] By Damien Chazelle

[00:47:44] It's not about

[00:47:46] Filmer acting in the same way

[00:47:48] But I feel like Big Fish is a much more conventional

[00:47:50] Version of this type of story

[00:47:52] Yes

[00:47:54] I guess this has it too

[00:47:56] The thing of like the old person is laid up

[00:47:58] In bed or in hospital

[00:48:00] Or something

[00:48:02] She's thinking back on her life

[00:48:04] Or you find a box

[00:48:06] Dewey Cox

[00:48:08] What's this picture of him?

[00:48:10] The atonement story

[00:48:12] Where she has literally the same haircut

[00:48:14] As the lady from Atonement

[00:48:16] That was Joe Wright's brilliant idea

[00:48:18] They all have the same bad haircut

[00:48:20] And you'll know it's them

[00:48:23] Okay so

[00:48:25] Cone brings back his Perfect Blue screenwriter

[00:48:27] Sada Yuki Murai

[00:48:29] Who was sole credit on Perfect Blue

[00:48:31] They are co-credits on this one

[00:48:33] So Cone also gets a story credit

[00:48:35] I guess for originating the idea

[00:48:37] Can I just call out the thing

[00:48:39] I find very evocative in

[00:48:41] Imaginary great actress

[00:48:43] That he seems to have sparked on

[00:48:45] Is the notion of not just being like

[00:48:47] I'm making a film trying to depict

[00:48:49] Someone who is great at what they do

[00:48:51] But the idea to build a fictional legacy

[00:48:55] Right?

[00:48:57] Can I create a person with a career

[00:48:59] And a history that never happened

[00:49:01] And sell that to an audience

[00:49:03] A sense of import

[00:49:05] But also it's like

[00:49:07] That's true but he's deciding

[00:49:09] They have to decide

[00:49:11] Where in history do we leapfrog from

[00:49:13] What will we touch on

[00:49:15] JJ said that

[00:49:17] Pouring over all the

[00:49:20] He's incredibly self-effacing

[00:49:22] So it's sometimes hard to get

[00:49:24] An accurate account

[00:49:26] Of how things came about

[00:49:28] Because he had the tendency to undersell himself

[00:49:30] But he basically said going into this

[00:49:32] He did not really know anything about Japanese film history

[00:49:34] That they started writing the movie

[00:49:36] Just thinking it was interesting

[00:49:38] And then said I guess

[00:49:40] I should figure out what this maps onto culturally

[00:49:42] Yes

[00:49:44] I will say I do realize we forgot

[00:49:46] One other sort of standard

[00:49:49] One more conventional type of story of this

[00:49:51] Which is Forrest Gump

[00:49:53] Yes

[00:49:55] What's he doing?

[00:49:57] He's sitting on that dang bench

[00:49:59] And he's about to tell you his whole life

[00:50:01] Forrest Gump has lived through

[00:50:03] 100 years in American history

[00:50:05] Here he goes

[00:50:07] You're absolutely right

[00:50:09] This is a double history

[00:50:11] Where it's like she's going to tell us

[00:50:13] Sort of about 1000 years of Japanese history

[00:50:15] But also 100 years of Japanese film history

[00:50:17] Which is interesting

[00:50:19] This movie is so interesting

[00:50:21] Yes

[00:50:23] I'm not joking

[00:50:25] It really is

[00:50:27] It's not facetiously said

[00:50:29] Yes

[00:50:31] I don't think it's even 90 minutes long

[00:50:33] The credits roll at 1 hour and 22 minutes

[00:50:35] Right

[00:50:37] And it feels like one of the densest movies I've seen

[00:50:39] I was about to say it's not action packed

[00:50:41] But obviously it has a lot of

[00:50:43] Action

[00:50:46] Situations

[00:50:48] But you could watch it and it could kind of bounce off of you

[00:50:50] Yes

[00:50:52] I think the first time I saw it I liked it

[00:50:54] The first Conan movie I saw was Perfect Blue

[00:50:56] And I think I sought this one out

[00:50:58] And I think it kind of

[00:51:00] Bounced off me a little bit

[00:51:02] And even on rewatch

[00:51:04] I was like this is good

[00:51:06] This is incredible

[00:51:08] And then you just keep thinking about it

[00:51:10] And I think I'm going to need to go back to it again

[00:51:12] It's one of those movies you kind of need to watch

[00:51:14] And I think it's so much more of a horror writer

[00:51:16] Because of how wildly things are shifting around

[00:51:18] That you need to actively hold on

[00:51:20] Rather than passively let it wash over you

[00:51:22] Because you do need to be choosing

[00:51:24] In every moment

[00:51:26] How much you're trying to actually game out

[00:51:28] The reality

[00:51:30] Of what you're seeing

[00:51:32] Versus what really happened

[00:51:34] Because yeah

[00:51:36] It's actual Japanese film history

[00:51:38] This imagined career of this woman

[00:51:40] Her life getting mushed in with her career

[00:51:43] They call out early on

[00:51:45] Isn't that one of her movies?

[00:51:47] And you're like okay so she can't really differentiate

[00:51:49] Between the two

[00:51:51] We're seeing both in the same narrative stream

[00:51:53] But there's also sort of the story

[00:51:55] Of the perspective of the two guys

[00:51:57] We're hearing the story from

[00:51:59] And the two guys, the documentary filmmakers

[00:52:01] Also are kind of drawn into this

[00:52:03] What is real, what is fiction

[00:52:05] And they become participants too

[00:52:07] Right and then you realize

[00:52:09] It's so fascinatingly built

[00:52:12] But one of them is like Slate Queen

[00:52:14] And the other one is like

[00:52:16] What's going on?

[00:52:18] That's their vibe

[00:52:20] That's why I think Lights, Camera, Jackson would like this movie

[00:52:22] He would

[00:52:24] He would vibe with it

[00:52:26] He would

[00:52:28] He loves old ladies

[00:52:30] That just seems like his vibe

[00:52:32] In Hollywood history

[00:52:34] There was a Hollywood version of this one especially

[00:52:36] He'd be the guy who's like

[00:52:38] Oh well you're fantastic

[00:52:40] Wait is he the Slate Queen in this set?

[00:52:42] He would be the Slate Queen

[00:52:44] He would be the one who saved her life

[00:52:46] On the set of

[00:52:48] Secret Life of Walter Mitty

[00:52:50] So

[00:52:52] This is a very interesting quote

[00:52:54] From the screenwriter

[00:52:56] In Japanese history

[00:52:58] There was a time before the war when they favored

[00:53:00] Foreign ideas, they dreamed of continents

[00:53:02] It was an era very rich in vitality

[00:53:04] It fits so well with Shioko's young

[00:53:06] Poetic energy, it matches perfectly

[00:53:09] World War II was the so called time of struggles

[00:53:11] That overlaps with her struggles

[00:53:13] In her adolescence

[00:53:15] And then there was a time when vitality comes back

[00:53:17] After the war, that links up very well too

[00:53:19] Like they're trying to build a personal narrative

[00:53:21] On top of a historical narrative

[00:53:23] And a cinema narrative

[00:53:25] It's wild how much they make it sound

[00:53:27] Like all of this was accidental though

[00:53:29] Where they're like oh I guess that means we can do

[00:53:31] This as well

[00:53:33] Millennium Actress is a title

[00:53:35] We're saying this movie having the whole attitude

[00:53:37] It's time to look back on the last hundred years

[00:53:39] And a century of such extreme progress

[00:53:41] But you're also like this is basically

[00:53:43] The hundredth anniversary of movies

[00:53:45] This is like cinema looking back

[00:53:47] On itself which also means it's like

[00:53:49] The first century that we have

[00:53:51] Documented in a certain way

[00:53:53] Not only do we have the like cultural

[00:53:55] Artifacts but there are visual artifacts

[00:53:57] There are like representations of real life

[00:53:59] You're seeing real faces moving

[00:54:01] In motion from a hundred years ago

[00:54:03] Which people didn't have a hundred years

[00:54:06] Before that and you can like track

[00:54:08] The industry and the culture based

[00:54:10] On the rise and fall of these different things

[00:54:12] I mean it's also

[00:54:14] It's evocative to open a movie

[00:54:16] With a movie studio

[00:54:18] Being demolished

[00:54:20] And a man who basically

[00:54:22] Looks like the Japanese Joel Silver

[00:54:24] Crying and having a tantrum

[00:54:26] And then to open it with

[00:54:28] The entire movie rewinding

[00:54:30] I don't think we've talked enough about that

[00:54:32] Because it's such an interesting device

[00:54:35] And it's again something that only Satoshi Kon would do

[00:54:37] And this Blu-ray booklet

[00:54:39] I keep throwing down like it's the constitution

[00:54:41] They call out that it was

[00:54:43] Like a pretty pointed choice

[00:54:45] To make it a VHS

[00:54:47] Because at the time they start producing this movie

[00:54:49] It was like DVD had won

[00:54:51] The animation companies

[00:54:53] There was some big anime film

[00:54:55] That was the first one to skip VHS

[00:54:57] And go only to DVD

[00:54:59] And then the PS2 had come out

[00:55:01] That year and they were like

[00:55:03] VHS is over it's done it's a dead format

[00:55:05] Poor VHS

[00:55:07] Now it's back

[00:55:09] Is it back?

[00:55:11] I don't know I feel like people kind of like it now

[00:55:13] I miss it

[00:55:15] Well you can get a little TV

[00:55:17] You can get a VHS collection going

[00:55:19] If you want

[00:55:21] My old VHS collection

[00:55:23] Isn't my parents but they never threw it away

[00:55:25] They never threw it away

[00:55:27] You got a great base

[00:55:29] I'll say this the effect of rewinding

[00:55:32] The noise will always be VHS

[00:55:34] Much like

[00:55:36] If someone is to stop

[00:55:38] In a moment

[00:55:40] Or like someone said something weird

[00:55:42] It's a record scratch

[00:55:44] Those are just inherently

[00:55:46] I think going to be the sound

[00:55:48] It's attached to an old media

[00:55:50] But it's very evocative seeing that happen

[00:55:52] In this movie watching someone in animation

[00:55:54] See the crackle of the TV

[00:55:56] And have to sit too close

[00:55:58] And those sounds and everything

[00:56:00] It's also interestingly

[00:56:02] Anachronistic for the movie itself

[00:56:04] Because the movie takes place

[00:56:06] Over film history

[00:56:08] Going back to the 1940s

[00:56:10] Through like the 1970s

[00:56:12] Essentially

[00:56:14] And that's a time when VHS was really not prevalent

[00:56:16] So like the whole device of rewinding

[00:56:18] It was something that doesn't feel

[00:56:20] Even close to the career

[00:56:22] That she has

[00:56:24] But even so

[00:56:26] It feels right

[00:56:29] It's what I find so fascinating

[00:56:31] About this movie

[00:56:33] Not being

[00:56:35] Reverse engineered from some desire

[00:56:37] To tell a film about film history

[00:56:39] Or about acting

[00:56:41] That both of those were things

[00:56:43] They basically found their way to

[00:56:45] When it's like this movie

[00:56:47] Is so good at expressing the weird

[00:56:49] Time machine quality

[00:56:51] Of film

[00:56:53] Like film as cultural preservation

[00:56:55] But also that thing

[00:56:58] I was watching these movies

[00:57:00] That are over 100 years old

[00:57:02] And you're like watching them

[00:57:04] And thinking about

[00:57:06] Imagining the time after they call cut

[00:57:08] And him walking over to whatever

[00:57:10] Their version of a craft service table was

[00:57:12] You know that this doesn't just exist

[00:57:14] As like a work of art

[00:57:16] In the same way that looking at a painting

[00:57:18] Or a book does

[00:57:20] You're seeing like an actual capture

[00:57:22] Of existence at that point in time

[00:57:24] I think it adds like an extra layer

[00:57:26] Yes

[00:57:28] And it's basically going through her mind

[00:57:30] And her imagination and her memory

[00:57:32] And you are

[00:57:34] It's called to attention

[00:57:36] The fact that they're making a film

[00:57:38] About this too

[00:57:40] Which is why that DHS rewind

[00:57:42] Is sort of the calling attention

[00:57:44] To that extra layer

[00:57:46] Of like looking back

[00:57:48] That you are

[00:57:50] And when they're entering into the story

[00:57:52] When you see the two of them pop up

[00:57:55] And you make sense of what she's telling them

[00:57:57] It like does feel like an interesting depiction

[00:57:59] Of the process of documentary filmmakers

[00:58:01] Where it's like

[00:58:03] Isn't your job to listen to what they're saying

[00:58:05] And actually try to place yourself within it

[00:58:07] Figure out how to tell the story

[00:58:09] That they're telling you cinematically

[00:58:11] And then there's the third aspect of it

[00:58:13] Which is like

[00:58:15] I do think this is one of the best movies

[00:58:17] About the psychology of an actor

[00:58:19] I have ever seen

[00:58:21] I think in a really fascinating way

[00:58:23] It's about this acting process

[00:58:25] Which is so hard to depict

[00:58:27] And like is so infamously hard to talk about

[00:58:29] Where actors usually easily

[00:58:31] Sound dumb or annoying

[00:58:33] Or pretentious

[00:58:35] And this is a movie that isn't about method acting

[00:58:37] But it is about the weird meshing

[00:58:39] Of like

[00:58:41] Well if you're doing this well

[00:58:43] You're pulling from some real emotion

[00:58:45] And whether that is because

[00:58:47] You have an innate sense of empathy

[00:58:49] And the ability to relate to situations

[00:58:52] Whether it's because the material does remind you

[00:58:54] Of something from your own life

[00:58:56] That you're pulling to

[00:58:58] Whether it's because you're able to just imagine it

[00:59:00] So thoroughly that it starts to feel real to you

[00:59:02] At the end of the day

[00:59:04] Like in the soup

[00:59:06] If you're fucking 85 and you're dying

[00:59:08] What's to differentiate your memories

[00:59:10] Of your real experiences

[00:59:12] From the memories of the emotions

[00:59:14] You created to depict other experiences

[00:59:16] Especially when that's

[00:59:18] Going to be what everyone remembers about you

[00:59:21] You know that's your whole legacy

[00:59:23] Until these two guys decide to sit down with her

[00:59:25] They have no idea what her fucking life is

[00:59:27] Even this guy who spent time with her

[00:59:29] They know her movies

[00:59:31] That's how she's going to be remembered

[00:59:33] 100 years later

[00:59:35] This movie's so good

[00:59:37] The way that it observes stardom

[00:59:39] I mean kind of going off what you're saying too

[00:59:41] About just like her legacy as a star

[00:59:43] And how that's so wrapped up

[00:59:45] In her own personal life and history

[00:59:47] In that in chasing the man

[00:59:49] That she'll never be able to find

[00:59:51] That leaks into

[00:59:53] Her roles

[00:59:55] And it makes her such a star

[00:59:57] It keeps her young too

[00:59:59] And once she gives up on that

[01:00:01] Then she kind of becomes just another person

[01:00:03] And fades to the background

[01:00:05] I know they based this film off a couple specific actresses

[01:00:07] As a starting point

[01:00:09] There's the woman from

[01:00:11] Yes, yes, from Tokyo Story

[01:00:13] And Late Spring

[01:00:15] One of the greatest actresses who ever lived

[01:00:18] And was just retired for the last 40 years of her life

[01:00:20] Just at a certain point stopped making movies

[01:00:22] But there's also

[01:00:24] There was a ton of that in Hollywood

[01:00:26] She retired laziness

[01:00:28] Just to be clear

[01:00:30] That's why she backed it up

[01:00:32] She didn't have that grindset mindset

[01:00:34] But she did a lot of the movies

[01:00:36] That are, you know

[01:00:38] A lot of movies that are like this movie obviously

[01:00:40] The other one, what were you saying, sorry?

[01:00:42] No, no, I'm just saying Greta Garbo is like an American analog

[01:00:44] Who is this massive movie star

[01:00:46] Who won Oscars and then at like 42

[01:00:48] Was like, I'm done

[01:00:50] And lived another 40 years

[01:00:52] And wasn't like a recluse in a Howard Hughes way

[01:00:54] Lazy

[01:00:56] That's why it's called Millennial Actress

[01:00:58] Millennial

[01:01:00] Because they're lazy

[01:01:02] She has the hustles

[01:01:04] But I just think that's a thing

[01:01:06] That is basically like culturally gone

[01:01:08] Not just in Japan

[01:01:10] But in American cinema as well

[01:01:12] I was watching some fucking interview

[01:01:15] About the making of Ragtime

[01:01:17] And how it was like

[01:01:19] They were trying to get Jimmy Cagney

[01:01:21] To do his first movie in 20 years

[01:01:23] He had been on the bench

[01:01:25] And he didn't want to come back

[01:01:27] And they got him to do one more

[01:01:29] And he was retired

[01:01:31] And you're like, yeah

[01:01:33] There was an era of

[01:01:35] Our greatest movie stars

[01:01:37] At a certain point just pulled the fuck back

[01:01:39] For whatever reason

[01:01:41] Is there anyone like that now?

[01:01:44] Has anyone called it quit

[01:01:46] In their 40s or 50s

[01:01:48] Daniel Dan Lewis

[01:01:50] If he sticks to his guns

[01:01:52] I don't know

[01:01:54] We'll see

[01:01:56] Based on some of our texts recently

[01:01:58] Is he loosely attached to Tuesday?

[01:02:00] Is he circling Tuesday?

[01:02:02] Well, I can't say too much more

[01:02:04] I might get us in trouble

[01:02:06] He's been spotting around town wearing a calendar

[01:02:08] As he gets into character

[01:02:10] Rise of the Internet

[01:02:12] This is the thing that starts to go away

[01:02:14] Where like

[01:02:16] In the year 2000, 2001

[01:02:18] You could have people who were giant movie stars

[01:02:20] In films that remain in circulation

[01:02:22] Or watched

[01:02:24] And then you're like, what happened to that person?

[01:02:26] They sit in their house

[01:02:28] And it's not easy to check Wikipedia

[01:02:30] You're not finding someone who's taken paparazzi photos

[01:02:32] Of Gene Hackman going to an Arby's

[01:02:34] You're like, these people just kind of vanished

[01:02:36] And sometimes there's a tragic story behind it

[01:02:38] And sometimes it's just like

[01:02:41] They were just done

[01:02:43] Lazy as hell

[01:02:45] I remember that Audrey Hepburn retired early

[01:02:47] So that she could be a UN ambassador

[01:02:49] For like the second half of her life

[01:02:51] Grace Kelly, you know

[01:02:53] She married a prince and then died

[01:02:55] So lazy

[01:02:57] She was so lazy that she drove her car off a cliff

[01:02:59] Whatever happened to her

[01:03:01] What happened to Grace Kelly?

[01:03:03] Did she drive her car off a cliff or something?

[01:03:05] Dig yourself deeper into this one

[01:03:07] Yes, she was driving

[01:03:09] She had a stroke and she lost control of the car

[01:03:11] And drove it off a cliff

[01:03:13] So I was right, wow

[01:03:15] Whenever you say that, David views that as lazy

[01:03:17] Classic millennial Grace Kelly

[01:03:19] That sounds like her doing a lot

[01:03:21] Stroke, car, cliff

[01:03:23] Incredibly dramatic

[01:03:25] That's the most dramatic way to go at it

[01:03:27] I'm so sorry Grace Kelly

[01:03:29] For bespirching your name

[01:03:31] A couple other thoughts that Cone has

[01:03:33] Before he gets into the making of the movie

[01:03:35] One, obviously he's working with a female protagonist again

[01:03:38] He thinks

[01:03:40] He's like, I'm not intending to do this

[01:03:42] But I do think the movies are quite linked

[01:03:46] You know, the depiction of the relationship

[01:03:48] Between admirer and idol

[01:03:50] Right?

[01:03:52] Fandom in general

[01:03:54] Is sort of a theme

[01:03:56] Definitely less poisonous

[01:03:58] Right, so he was like Perfect Blue had turned out

[01:04:00] So dark that I kind of wanted

[01:04:02] To make a more positive movie

[01:04:04] That's doing the same kind of thing

[01:04:07] In an abstract kind of a way

[01:04:11] Love is so beautiful

[01:04:13] A tale of loving someone is beautiful

[01:04:15] Whether it's fulfilled or not

[01:04:17] I'm surprised that love is always filled

[01:04:19] In American animated films

[01:04:21] He's right

[01:04:23] This is a very unfulfilled movie

[01:04:25] It'd be funny if the Little Mermaid ended with Eric being like

[01:04:27] You're fish

[01:04:29] I have to marry like a waste of crap

[01:04:31] If they followed the original fairy tale

[01:04:33] She would have become sea foam and died

[01:04:35] Maybe she goes to heaven

[01:04:37] That book ends with

[01:04:39] Maybe she's going to go to heaven

[01:04:41] She goes to heaven and they're like, no, no, no

[01:04:43] Maybe

[01:04:45] It's because as a mermaid she doesn't have a soul

[01:04:47] But because she became human

[01:04:49] Maybe she has a soul now

[01:04:51] You're borderline though

[01:04:53] It is really nice

[01:04:55] Those stories are great

[01:04:57] Cohn claims I hadn't actually seen that many movies

[01:04:59] So I had to consult a lot of books

[01:05:01] And films

[01:05:04] Says he consulted upwards of 600 books

[01:05:06] Visited a lot of old film studio prop houses

[01:05:12] Not very millennial of him

[01:05:14] No, no

[01:05:16] He was absolutely so Gen Z

[01:05:18] When he was digging into like

[01:05:20] Japanese costume design

[01:05:22] In the 40s and 50s

[01:05:24] And stuff like that

[01:05:26] Really going for full fidelity

[01:05:28] To the filmmaking eras

[01:05:30] What like

[01:05:32] He was behind the Showa era

[01:05:34] And the Heisei era

[01:05:36] And all these major movements in Japanese film

[01:05:38] He faced a lot of questions from the press

[01:05:40] About why he was making his film

[01:05:42] In such a realistic style of animation

[01:05:44] I guess that's true

[01:05:46] I guess this movie is less showy

[01:05:48] Less showy, the colors are more muted

[01:05:50] The eyes are smaller

[01:05:52] This is also just an era where people are like

[01:05:54] You should use animation to make animals talk

[01:05:56] Well that is true

[01:05:58] It's cool when they talk

[01:06:01] I do love when animals talk

[01:06:03] And maybe they're wearing clothes

[01:06:05] Maybe like

[01:06:07] They're kind of sexy

[01:06:09] Okay, sorry

[01:06:11] I think whenever animals talk in Satoshi Kon movies

[01:06:13] It's always seen as very bizarre

[01:06:15] It's like what the hell is going on

[01:06:17] We covered this back in the day though

[01:06:19] When Brad Bird was setting up The Incredibles

[01:06:21] And they had to go pitch it to Disney

[01:06:23] With Pixar behind him

[01:06:25] I don't know if it was Eisner

[01:06:27] Who else it was at Disney

[01:06:30] He was like these are all human characters

[01:06:32] What are you talking about

[01:06:34] He was like superpowers

[01:06:36] I can make them stretch

[01:06:38] I can do shit you've never seen

[01:06:40] You don't understand how animation works

[01:06:42] So you have to imagine this was like that times a million

[01:06:44] Because he's making a biopic for a fictional person

[01:06:46] Even as much as this movie blends reality

[01:06:48] Outside of the science fiction segments

[01:06:50] At the beginning and the end

[01:06:52] Most of what it's depicting

[01:06:54] Is grounded

[01:06:56] Like it's war films

[01:06:58] That's why the subtlety

[01:07:00] Of like oh we're moving between fantasy and reality

[01:07:02] Like oh you can do that

[01:07:04] In live action I suppose

[01:07:06] But it would feel much more right

[01:07:08] Blatant

[01:07:10] Like oh now we've moved into a flashback

[01:07:12] And Kon said his big thing was like

[01:07:14] I don't want to have any

[01:07:16] I don't want to be riffing on a clean

[01:07:18] Established language

[01:07:20] You don't want to do wavy lines when you're going

[01:07:22] The camera moves through a window

[01:07:24] It's a really good way to know though

[01:07:27] He said I'm not doing any of the Wayne's World tricks

[01:07:31] So Satsukihara

[01:07:33] Obviously an obvious inspiration for the film

[01:07:35] He cannot

[01:07:37] Deny the parallels

[01:07:39] An additional inspiration is an actress called

[01:07:41] Hideko Takamine

[01:07:43] Best known for Floating Clouds

[01:07:45] And 24 Eyes

[01:07:47] Also retired young

[01:07:49] In her 40s

[01:07:51] He also refers to

[01:07:53] Chiyoko as just like a folklore character

[01:07:55] Like she's beyond like some

[01:07:57] Easy analog

[01:07:59] Makes the movie for a tiny budget

[01:08:01] Like you said

[01:08:03] Was working off storyboards before the script was even finished

[01:08:05] The film doesn't have a lot of wide shots

[01:08:07] I think you were saying this

[01:08:09] Like you know

[01:08:11] It's a lot of sort of telephoto lens feelings

[01:08:13] As a cost cutting measure

[01:08:15] Right

[01:08:17] Look he's a smart enough filmmaker

[01:08:19] That he was like

[01:08:21] I probably can't afford wide shots

[01:08:24] I need to make them count

[01:08:26] But if I'm going to do that

[01:08:28] I need to justify it within the story

[01:08:30] Which is you're staying within her perspective

[01:08:32] As tightly as possible

[01:08:34] And it also lends to the whole

[01:08:36] You know

[01:08:38] Love letter to cinema kind of thing

[01:08:40] Of the glamorous close up

[01:08:42] Of actresses

[01:08:44] Drink it in

[01:08:46] This is the first film of his scored by

[01:08:48] Susumu Hirasawa

[01:08:50] Who scores all his other films

[01:08:53] I'm not sure

[01:08:55] One of his primary objectives

[01:08:57] Was working with this person

[01:08:59] The score is unbelievable

[01:09:01] It's very cool

[01:09:03] The whole score during that montage

[01:09:05] When we get sort of

[01:09:07] The clips of her life

[01:09:09] Merged with the clips of her early career

[01:09:11] Incredible score

[01:09:13] Score very crucial to a movie like this

[01:09:15] Where it's like

[01:09:17] You know

[01:09:19] About people talking

[01:09:21] The flow between locations

[01:09:23] Places, times, realities

[01:09:25] Yeah

[01:09:27] David

[01:09:29] You know the thing I always say

[01:09:31] My famous catch phrase

[01:09:33] Watching Netflix without using ExpressVPN

[01:09:35] Is like buying tickets to a Taylor Swift concert

[01:09:37] But only being allowed to watch the opening act

[01:09:39] That is your favorite thing to say

[01:09:41] It's my favorite thing to say

[01:09:43] And people love when I say it

[01:09:45] Well can you explain exactly what you mean by it though

[01:09:47] Well here's the thing

[01:09:50] If you're buying tickets for a Taylor Swift concert

[01:09:52] You want to see the whole show

[01:09:54] You want to see her go through the eras

[01:09:56] Sure maybe a Himes opening

[01:09:58] That's a fun little set

[01:10:00] But come on

[01:10:02] Ice Spice

[01:10:04] Maybe a bit of Ice Spice

[01:10:06] Maybe Phoebe Bridger swings by

[01:10:08] But you want to hear about the

[01:10:10] Shaking of it off

[01:10:12] That's right, Welcome to New York

[01:10:14] You want to hear about the welcoming of New York

[01:10:16] Let's keep going

[01:10:18] www.netflix.com

[01:10:20] Oh there's some stuff on here but not everything I want to see

[01:10:22] I guess this is everything Netflix has to offer though

[01:10:24] Right? Wrong

[01:10:26] Because in different countries

[01:10:28] Netflix has different content

[01:10:30] And they're putting up walls

[01:10:32] Keeping us separated from each other

[01:10:34] And separated from the art

[01:10:36] It's true, they have thousands of shows

[01:10:38] Without a VPN though

[01:10:40] You only get access to a fraction of that

[01:10:42] Based on your location

[01:10:44] So I guess there's nothing to be done about it

[01:10:47] If ExpressVPN goes no no no

[01:10:49] We're bypassing those walls

[01:10:51] ExpressVPN lets you

[01:10:53] Change your online location

[01:10:55] You can control where any streaming website thinks you're located

[01:10:57] Right?

[01:10:59] So you can just open up an app

[01:11:01] ExpressVPN app

[01:11:03] You select a country name

[01:11:05] You tap one button to connect

[01:11:07] And when you refresh the page on your Netflix or your Hulu or whatever

[01:11:09] It's going to be there

[01:11:11] Britain all of a sudden

[01:11:13] Hungary

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[01:12:10] So let's talk about the movie

[01:12:14] I know we've already done that

[01:12:16] It's a hard film to recount plot wise

[01:12:18] You start with the demolition of this dude

[01:12:20] Or I guess you start with the space shot, right?

[01:12:22] Yes, you start with the space shot of her filming

[01:12:24] The film that she is

[01:12:26] I think it's her last film

[01:12:28] In which she's going to space

[01:12:30] And she's chasing after the man she loves

[01:12:32] While one of her co-workers declares his love to her

[01:12:34] And she

[01:12:36] Falls on deaf ears

[01:12:38] On the moon in space

[01:12:40] She only has eyes for one thing

[01:12:43] She's just whining as she lifts off

[01:12:45] I just remember seeing this at the Metrograph

[01:12:47] And thinking when this sequence came up

[01:12:49] Wait, am I wrong about what this movie is about?

[01:12:51] Because I had always

[01:12:53] Like, right, it's the anime film that's just like

[01:12:55] A woman trying to remember her life

[01:12:57] And then this starts

[01:12:59] And the first three minutes look like a standard

[01:13:01] Anime film of this era

[01:13:03] Yeah, it's really cool

[01:13:05] You open on the cyber detailed rocket

[01:13:07] Yeah

[01:13:09] And then, yes, revealed that this guy

[01:13:11] I just love the design of this character

[01:13:15] Because

[01:13:17] The lead

[01:13:19] What's his name again?

[01:13:21] Genya

[01:13:23] No, I just think he is presented in a way

[01:13:25] Where visually

[01:13:27] I said Japanese Joel Silver

[01:13:29] But he looks like a sort of gruff

[01:13:31] Cynical exec

[01:13:33] He doesn't look

[01:13:35] Suspenders, goatee

[01:13:37] He doesn't look like a sensitive

[01:13:40] He looks like a desk pusher

[01:13:42] Yes, and his sort of

[01:13:44] Slacker cameraman

[01:13:46] Visually

[01:13:48] Looking very 90s

[01:13:50] He should be the nerd

[01:13:52] He should be the one like, you don't understand

[01:13:54] She was a legend

[01:13:56] And Genya is yelling at him

[01:13:58] You don't understand the importance of this

[01:14:00] But he's so aggro about it

[01:14:02] But they're checking up a mountain

[01:14:04] To find this woman

[01:14:06] Who has been off the radar for 40 years

[01:14:08] And as the studio has been destroyed

[01:14:10] She was the star who was most associated

[01:14:12] With this studio for decades

[01:14:14] And they feel the need to document it

[01:14:16] To have some sort of living testament

[01:14:18] To this woman

[01:14:20] No one knows what she's even going to look like

[01:14:22] What her memory is going to be like

[01:14:24] This opening montage of them driving

[01:14:26] Her in this sort of post-World War II

[01:14:28] Bombed out

[01:14:30] Right with cranes

[01:14:32] Landscape

[01:14:34] And then the spaceship flying

[01:14:37] If you've never seen this movie

[01:14:39] It's not like you're like, what is going on

[01:14:41] But it is laying subtly out

[01:14:43] What he's doing

[01:14:45] Like, you know, for the rest of this movie

[01:14:47] Without you really understanding it

[01:14:49] You know, like this sort of imagery

[01:14:51] Of her in various movies

[01:14:53] It's giving you that information right up front

[01:14:55] While they're also in their car looking at papers

[01:14:57] Exactly

[01:14:59] It's like, this is what we're gonna see

[01:15:01] And we're gonna fill it out later

[01:15:03] Yes

[01:15:06] I love that feeling of

[01:15:08] When they're outside her door

[01:15:10] Right, and I guess first

[01:15:12] Her sort of maid answers the door

[01:15:14] They don't know if it's her or not for a second

[01:15:16] Because no one's seen her in so long

[01:15:18] But that energy of going to see a real

[01:15:20] Elderly person and being like

[01:15:22] I don't know what this is gonna be like

[01:15:24] I don't know how functional this is gonna be

[01:15:26] I don't know if this is about to be upsetting

[01:15:28] I don't know how much they're gonna be

[01:15:30] Like, cogent

[01:15:32] My grandmother is

[01:15:34] She's 93 now

[01:15:36] And she is kind of like remarkably sharp for her age

[01:15:38] But I spend a lot of time with her

[01:15:40] She lives in the city

[01:15:42] And I feel like

[01:15:44] Similar to this character

[01:15:46] We have a lot of conversations now

[01:15:48] That I did not feel she was capable

[01:15:50] Of having five years ago

[01:15:52] Where she kind of zooms out and looks at her whole life

[01:15:54] And simultaneously

[01:15:56] Starts talking about things

[01:15:58] In much greater detail than I've ever heard

[01:16:00] Her talk about before

[01:16:03] Her broad swaths are now like

[01:16:05] Very minutely

[01:16:07] Sort of like honed in on

[01:16:09] And then other things she gets way abstract about

[01:16:11] You know, and she just wants to zoom all the way out

[01:16:13] And just kind of think about

[01:16:15] The larger arcs of her life

[01:16:17] And I just feel like this movie gets that

[01:16:19] Feeling down very right

[01:16:21] Of like being with someone who's like

[01:16:23] I don't know how many more conversations I have

[01:16:25] In me

[01:16:27] Certainly of someone who really wants to listen

[01:16:29] And I want to be heard

[01:16:31] Yeah

[01:16:33] I do sympathize with the guy too

[01:16:35] Where he's like, I love you

[01:16:37] But not in a weird way

[01:16:39] Like he's trying to be chill

[01:16:41] His face goes all red with her

[01:16:43] And she's just like a nice old lady

[01:16:45] There are these guys

[01:16:47] You come across in the film industry

[01:16:49] Who are just these horrible blowhards

[01:16:51] And you're like, how did you end up in this job?

[01:16:53] And then you trace it back

[01:16:55] And you're like at some point

[01:16:57] This guy was some innocent sweet film nerd

[01:17:00] Who learned how to be an asshole

[01:17:02] Like ruined people's life

[01:17:04] And has made bullshit for the last like 20 years

[01:17:06] But then he'll point to like

[01:17:08] The Cassavetes poster on his wall

[01:17:10] And he's like, that's why I got into it

[01:17:12] And this energy of this guy being like

[01:17:14] I care so much about what you do

[01:17:16] I think it's a different kind of unrequited love

[01:17:18] In a way

[01:17:20] Because this movie is all about unrequited love

[01:17:22] And like how that drives a person

[01:17:24] And I think it's so interesting

[01:17:26] After the depiction of how toxic

[01:17:29] Fandom can be in Perfect Blue

[01:17:31] He depicts fandom as being this kind of unrequited love

[01:17:33] And something that is much purer

[01:17:35] In a way

[01:17:37] The closest thing this movie has to a

[01:17:39] Quote-unquote twist is the reveal

[01:17:41] Where it's like, no he was like

[01:17:43] Part of her life at different times

[01:17:45] There were like actual moments

[01:17:47] Of meaningful impact between the two of them

[01:17:49] And he goes there assuming

[01:17:51] That she would not remember

[01:17:53] Both because of her age

[01:17:55] And because like, well someone like you

[01:17:57] That was impactful for me but why would it be impactful

[01:17:59] For you

[01:18:01] And the notion of like, viewing him as just

[01:18:03] A fan and then coming to realize

[01:18:05] Like, no he's this guy

[01:18:07] Who exists in this space where it's like

[01:18:09] You're meaningful to me, I don't know if you feel anything

[01:18:11] About me

[01:18:13] Again, unrequited love

[01:18:15] And it's kind of, yeah

[01:18:17] It's like the most optimistic

[01:18:19] Portrayal of fandom

[01:18:21] That I think I've seen in a while

[01:18:23] That feels like very loving

[01:18:26] And it's a dark time for fandom

[01:18:28] But in a way

[01:18:30] This is the one good side of fandom

[01:18:32] That we see, that it's just another type of love

[01:18:34] And I just

[01:18:36] She's playing someone who is

[01:18:38] Born during the great Canto earthquake

[01:18:40] That's how she starts off

[01:18:42] My destiny is tied to earthquakes

[01:18:44] So she's from the early 20s

[01:18:46] And like, she's representing

[01:18:48] The history of the country

[01:18:50] To these people

[01:18:52] And to the viewers

[01:18:54] And like, that's sort of how I thought about

[01:18:56] I knocked my head off

[01:18:58] My great grandma who died when I was young

[01:19:00] But like, that's a person where it's like

[01:19:02] When you were born

[01:19:04] We didn't even have

[01:19:06] Whatever

[01:19:08] Slice bread, cars, whatever

[01:19:10] My grandfather was born before cars existed

[01:19:12] And that blew my mind

[01:19:14] There's a link from that time to now

[01:19:16] How many channels on cable did he get?

[01:19:18] Six

[01:19:20] They lived all different lives

[01:19:23] It's so bizarre to think

[01:19:25] It's baffling to think about

[01:19:27] You're like, wow, I can't imagine my life without this technology

[01:19:29] But that's the millennium look back thing

[01:19:31] That was like the fucking 99, 2000 energy

[01:19:33] It's a millennial look back

[01:19:35] It's crazy how fast the last hundred years moved

[01:19:37] You know?

[01:19:39] When you think about it

[01:19:41] How many cable channels do you think she had when she was born?

[01:19:43] Her? Yeah

[01:19:45] At least two

[01:19:47] Are you talking basic package?

[01:19:49] She had ESPN but no ESPN2?

[01:19:52] And their programming was bad at that point

[01:19:54] They only had like Welcome to Pooh Corner

[01:19:56] And Dumbo Circus and shit like that

[01:19:58] Absolutely

[01:20:00] So you know

[01:20:02] She's recounting her childhood

[01:20:04] Born during the earthquake

[01:20:06] Was spotted as a young girl

[01:20:08] By a studio director

[01:20:10] When she was at school

[01:20:12] And her parents kind of like forbade it

[01:20:14] But she starts acting anyway

[01:20:16] You're fully taking at face value at this point

[01:20:18] What she is relaying to you

[01:20:20] Is just purely the story of her life

[01:20:22] Leading up to how she became an actress

[01:20:24] And then you get to the scene with her and the soldier

[01:20:26] That hangs over the rest of her life

[01:20:28] Right, sure, sure, sure

[01:20:30] But like this is the first scene where like

[01:20:32] When she's like recounting this meeting

[01:20:34] Where her dad's like

[01:20:36] You can't do this or whatever

[01:20:38] Her dad has died actually

[01:20:40] Cause he died at her birth

[01:20:42] Is it the studio head who's yelling at her?

[01:20:44] I think I got the feeling

[01:20:46] It was her teacher or something

[01:20:49] And they're just in the room with her

[01:20:51] The cameraman's there

[01:20:53] And that's like where you're just like

[01:20:55] What is this?

[01:20:57] And the cameraman is also saying what is this?

[01:20:59] And they're in their regular clothes

[01:21:01] Modern clothes and all that

[01:21:03] And yes, then you're having this moment

[01:21:05] Where like you said

[01:21:07] This sort of pivotal meeting

[01:21:09] She finds a soldier hiding out

[01:21:11] With a key

[01:21:13] Well he's not a soldier

[01:21:15] He's a revolutionary

[01:21:17] And he's kind of hot

[01:21:19] Not just kind of

[01:21:21] For her to be obsessed with him her entire life

[01:21:23] He has to be super hot

[01:21:25] And he lives up to the hype

[01:21:27] But he's like a paint splattered suitcase

[01:21:29] And also blood splattered suitcase

[01:21:33] The imagery of him like painting in the snow

[01:21:35] Setting up his easel

[01:21:37] Like with no one around

[01:21:39] Creating a far away world

[01:21:41] He's got a little bucket hat

[01:21:43] What kind of like passing encounters

[01:21:46] Do you have to say something

[01:21:48] So poignant and profound

[01:21:50] That someone just falls deeply in love with you

[01:21:52] And thinks about you for the rest of your life

[01:21:54] What like

[01:21:56] I'm doing that all the time

[01:21:58] Yeah exactly

[01:22:00] We release an episode every week

[01:22:02] That changes someone's life

[01:22:04] No, no, yes

[01:22:06] I mean for sure

[01:22:08] It's also like he is

[01:22:10] In a weird way

[01:22:12] He is instilling in her

[01:22:15] The stakes and importance of the idea

[01:22:17] Of being an artist

[01:22:19] That it's like here is a man

[01:22:21] Who is creating art in a time of turmoil

[01:22:23] Against all odds

[01:22:25] Putting his life at risk

[01:22:27] But he's holding on to his paint brushes

[01:22:29] And bringing them with him

[01:22:31] Because he needs to express something

[01:22:33] Things need to be documented

[01:22:35] They need to be communicated

[01:22:37] Like for someone who's at the early stages

[01:22:39] Of being pulled into

[01:22:41] An art form

[01:22:43] It's like this guy is saying to her

[01:22:45] This matters

[01:22:47] Art for greater meaning

[01:22:49] Yes

[01:22:51] Also he's hot

[01:22:53] Even if you don't see his face at first

[01:22:55] He's all in shadows

[01:22:57] And then the instance where you do see his full face

[01:22:59] It might be a film

[01:23:01] Yeah right

[01:23:03] Because this sequence

[01:23:05] She basically runs off

[01:23:07] Is chased away

[01:23:09] Runs to the train station

[01:23:12] Then Genya says

[01:23:14] I remember that scene

[01:23:16] It made you famous

[01:23:18] Or whatever he says to her

[01:23:20] And the camera guy is like

[01:23:22] I thought that was a movie

[01:23:24] At this point already

[01:23:26] The two realities are starting to blur together

[01:23:28] Ben you love a key

[01:23:30] A serious key

[01:23:32] I do

[01:23:34] I love the aesthetic of it

[01:23:36] As just a piece of jewelry

[01:23:38] And his whole thing of this

[01:23:40] Carries a key with them

[01:23:42] Well I guess that would be just your key chain

[01:23:44] But you know what I mean

[01:23:46] It's a functional piece of jewelry

[01:23:48] It serves some function

[01:23:50] There's the thing where she touches pinkies with him

[01:23:52] And then you dissolve to her

[01:23:54] Holding up her pinky

[01:23:56] She's like I will never throw this shirt away

[01:23:58] She's remembering it

[01:24:00] My precious pinky

[01:24:02] All those little details

[01:24:04] I feel like with most great performers

[01:24:06] There's this conversation

[01:24:09] Was there something that formed them

[01:24:11] In sort of action

[01:24:13] In incident

[01:24:15] That changed their relationship to their own emotions

[01:24:17] Their access

[01:24:19] Their sort of emotional intelligence or understanding

[01:24:21] Or were they like born with some innate

[01:24:23] Sensitivity

[01:24:25] And sense of empathy

[01:24:27] The ability to connect

[01:24:29] But like in the way that

[01:24:31] Barbra Streisand who we talked about very recently

[01:24:33] Talks about like her father

[01:24:35] Passing away

[01:24:38] You know like this longing for approval

[01:24:40] From the men in her life

[01:24:42] Who weren't there or could not reciprocate

[01:24:44] Love

[01:24:46] And that sort of like built her whole thing

[01:24:48] It was the reason why at 1516

[01:24:50] She was able to sing these ballads with a wealth of emotion

[01:24:52] It's like that is this moment

[01:24:54] For her

[01:24:56] I think it is the meaning

[01:24:58] Of the final line

[01:25:00] Where it's like it's not like she was purely

[01:25:02] In love with this guy as an idea

[01:25:04] I think she absolutely would have been thrilled

[01:25:06] If she had found him again and could have had a relationship with him

[01:25:08] But also he is emblematic

[01:25:10] Of like the ability

[01:25:12] To tap into a sense

[01:25:14] Of longing, of deep emotion

[01:25:16] Of pathos

[01:25:18] The ability to connect with this man in such a brief encounter

[01:25:20] And hold that with her for so long

[01:25:22] And so many of the great movies stars

[01:25:24] When people discuss like what are their

[01:25:26] Like what is the quality that makes them

[01:25:28] So poignant and lasting

[01:25:30] It's that there's some sense

[01:25:32] Of like something that can't quite

[01:25:35] Be expressed

[01:25:37] As much as great movie stars are great communicators

[01:25:39] It's usually

[01:25:41] The thing that pushes people from actor to star

[01:25:43] Is usually some inexplicable

[01:25:45] Like there's something they're holding back

[01:25:47] There's some sense of longing

[01:25:49] There's something they're reaching for

[01:25:51] That they can't quite grab

[01:25:53] And this is just like a very smart literalization

[01:25:55] Of the type of like incident as a child

[01:25:57] The kind of memory you could hold on to

[01:25:59] The sort of like constant

[01:26:01] Grasping for a thing

[01:26:03] Which is really

[01:26:05] What the whole thing's about

[01:26:07] Yep, 100%

[01:26:09] Some of our greatest films are just centered around yearning

[01:26:11] And conflict itself

[01:26:13] Is based around

[01:26:15] Searching for something that you don't have

[01:26:17] Resolution often born

[01:26:19] Actors say what's my motivation

[01:26:21] What's my want in this scene

[01:26:23] David's

[01:26:25] Mucho dinero

[01:26:27] But if you're someone who

[01:26:29] Either is born with or

[01:26:32] Some set of experiences

[01:26:34] Some set of conditions

[01:26:36] That gives you that innate

[01:26:38] Unbreakable sense of yearning

[01:26:40] In your life

[01:26:42] Then it's like you're always going to be kind of compelling

[01:26:44] On screen

[01:26:46] If that's being captured

[01:26:48] Right?

[01:26:50] Like if she hadn't met this guy

[01:26:52] She would have willed into existence

[01:26:54] Another thing like this

[01:26:56] Yes

[01:26:58] She would have had some experience like this

[01:27:01] He leaves behind a magic key

[01:27:03] And he had a painting

[01:27:05] And he is maybe on a train eventually

[01:27:07] And she's chasing after the train

[01:27:09] Is he actually on the train?

[01:27:11] At that point we're seeing the movie as well

[01:27:13] But the servant who tells her

[01:27:15] That he escaped after the police found out

[01:27:17] He was hiding in their shed

[01:27:19] He says oh he made it to the train station

[01:27:21] What I love about the train sequence

[01:27:23] Is it is so magisterial

[01:27:25] And it's like many a film and television show

[01:27:27] You would know

[01:27:29] It's kind of goodbye

[01:27:31] Way better than playing goodbye

[01:27:33] So hard to run after them

[01:27:35] Although movies have tried

[01:27:37] Liar liar

[01:27:39] Where he drives the stair car

[01:27:41] I mean the best you can do is

[01:27:43] Two guys running in a plane field like in heat

[01:27:45] Well that is

[01:27:47] That's a good version

[01:27:49] But also I love that the cameraman

[01:27:51] And the other guy are running after her

[01:27:53] And they're like this is exhaust

[01:27:55] Like the idea

[01:27:58] You have to like follow her

[01:28:00] Through her world

[01:28:02] It's tiring

[01:28:04] And then later when he's in the samurai outfit

[01:28:06] And he has to call out

[01:28:08] Like I know it isn't era appropriate

[01:28:10] Like he's trying to integrate himself

[01:28:12] Into her memories

[01:28:14] And knowing that it's a struggle

[01:28:16] He's not quite getting there

[01:28:18] But also having the best fandom dream come true

[01:28:20] By getting to play out the roles

[01:28:22] Opposite his favorite actress ever

[01:28:24] Which also just makes it then so

[01:28:26] Impactful to me when you start to

[01:28:28] Recognize like oh that's him

[01:28:30] He exists as a younger form

[01:28:32] In this story

[01:28:34] He's now gotten to the point where he enters the narrative

[01:28:36] And he's like watching himself

[01:28:38] Watching the things

[01:28:40] That he witnessed

[01:28:42] With the new sense of context

[01:28:44] There's a really interesting moment

[01:28:46] In the later scene after he gets introduced

[01:28:48] As the younger version of himself

[01:28:50] Who's in her life

[01:28:52] They're searching for the key at one point

[01:28:55] He brushes past himself

[01:28:57] And knocks himself over

[01:28:59] Which is so interesting

[01:29:01] So much going on in this movie

[01:29:03] Because there's also the stuff

[01:29:05] Where they're shown in her home

[01:29:07] And they're acting it out

[01:29:09] On the stage

[01:29:11] But there's also no one there

[01:29:13] There's no crew

[01:29:15] And so that's another sort of like

[01:29:17] Almost the other mirror of that

[01:29:19] There's always lenses upon lenses

[01:29:21] Of looking at this woman's life

[01:29:24] And career

[01:29:26] Yeah you have this whole period film

[01:29:28] That she's in

[01:29:30] Where she's on the boat

[01:29:32] There's this sort of villainess

[01:29:34] With the cool glasses

[01:29:36] Who's trying to stop her from reuniting with her love

[01:29:38] Yes

[01:29:40] We'll see the film like stop down

[01:29:42] Or no no no I'm sorry

[01:29:44] That's uh

[01:29:46] Eiko Shimao

[01:29:48] The Betty Davis

[01:29:50] She's a villain in the movie

[01:29:52] The lights will appear

[01:29:54] The director is giving her directions

[01:29:56] The actress is like she can't handle this role

[01:29:58] There's two layers of villainy

[01:30:00] There's an all about Eve story

[01:30:02] Going on here too

[01:30:04] And then you have this manifestation of a witch

[01:30:06] That's sort of like hovering over her life

[01:30:08] That is like a character in film

[01:30:10] She's done but also seems to be haunting her

[01:30:12] And whether she is one and the same

[01:30:14] Yes

[01:30:16] With Shimao

[01:30:18] Or is like a reflection of herself as an older woman

[01:30:21] Because at the end we see her see that reflection

[01:30:23] For the final time but then she's like

[01:30:25] Is that me and it kind of morphs together

[01:30:27] She has the mole on the face

[01:30:29] But it's like this very honest reflection of

[01:30:31] Even if you're like a child actress

[01:30:35] Plucked from a very young age

[01:30:37] You're being placed into an industry

[01:30:39] Where it's like oh and by the way

[01:30:41] The road tends to end for actresses

[01:30:43] Here

[01:30:45] Like your clock is ticking almost immediately

[01:30:47] Yes so here's a woman who's like an adult

[01:30:49] And seems to be in the prime of her life

[01:30:51] And is so mortally jealous of this young child

[01:30:53] And she's also terrified of getting

[01:30:55] To that point in her life

[01:30:57] Um absolutely

[01:30:59] Big train crash

[01:31:01] Sequence

[01:31:03] Right

[01:31:05] And then that merges into

[01:31:07] A like true period film

[01:31:09] There's a name for it

[01:31:11] You know

[01:31:13] Doing my best

[01:31:15] The Jitageki

[01:31:18] Is that how you say it?

[01:31:20] I don't know

[01:31:22] Like the samurai

[01:31:24] Samurai

[01:31:26] You know

[01:31:28] Period costume

[01:31:30] She's got the painted eyebrows

[01:31:32] All that

[01:31:34] That is the most drastic transition

[01:31:36] Between

[01:31:38] The sort of you know

[01:31:40] 1930s movie or whatever

[01:31:42] And this like 17th century movie

[01:31:44] Where she like

[01:31:47] She's about to kill herself

[01:31:49] I mean so interesting to me

[01:31:51] As someone who is only

[01:31:53] Casually familiar with Japanese film history

[01:31:55] That I even now

[01:31:57] See like the

[01:31:59] Things I recognize

[01:32:01] Like the Jitageki films

[01:32:03] Feel to me very much like Akira Kurosawa films

[01:32:05] And then when we get to later with contemporary films

[01:32:07] Ozu films

[01:32:09] That kind of thing

[01:32:11] And then of course the Kaiju films

[01:32:13] Which we'll talk about soon

[01:32:15] It was very fun to see

[01:32:17] But yeah this feels

[01:32:19] Yeah there's the ghostly lady

[01:32:21] This feels like Throne of Bud a little bit

[01:32:23] I think that was one of the inspirations

[01:32:25] That he used

[01:32:27] But you know the ghostly like

[01:32:29] Rumpelstiltskin lady

[01:32:31] With the big loom

[01:32:33] She's cool

[01:32:35] Who tricks her into drinking the tea

[01:32:37] It's so interesting the scenes that we see

[01:32:39] That she's filming

[01:32:41] They feel so important and pivotal

[01:32:44] And it feels like the tea that she's doomed to drink

[01:32:46] Is also dooming her

[01:32:48] To never get over

[01:32:50] This love that has defined her for so long

[01:32:52] Right

[01:32:54] But once again it's like

[01:32:56] To some degree

[01:32:58] The final line of the film

[01:33:00] You spoiled it

[01:33:02] I spoiled it

[01:33:04] Gives her the sort of narrative agency

[01:33:06] Of she was not a victim of circumstance

[01:33:08] This idea that this truth was held

[01:33:10] From her for so long

[01:33:12] And she had this fear of this would destroy her

[01:33:14] If she knew the man she had been chasing

[01:33:16] Was long dead

[01:33:18] Already

[01:33:20] And for her

[01:33:22] She has this ownership of

[01:33:24] The chase was always the thing I was going to be in love with

[01:33:26] The resolution won't be nearly as good as the chase

[01:33:28] And that's why making the movies

[01:33:30] Is better than real life

[01:33:32] That's why escapism of movies

[01:33:34] Is better than real life

[01:33:36] Everything that's haunting her

[01:33:38] Is also something to some degree

[01:33:41] The energy to fucking act

[01:33:43] You know to feel shit

[01:33:45] But what if someone told you a story

[01:33:47] About the movies they were in and then you were in the movies

[01:33:49] And then you almost died making

[01:33:51] The movie that is a memory

[01:33:53] Okay so I want to say this now

[01:33:55] That sounds awesome

[01:33:57] Like every time I have to profile an actor

[01:33:59] They're like well if you'll remember

[01:34:01] And then suddenly I'm in the movie with them

[01:34:03] Suddenly you're in feudal Japan and you're getting attacked by bandits

[01:34:05] I want to say this now

[01:34:07] And I want to make it clear that I'm not saying

[01:34:10] That this bullshit had happened

[01:34:12] Or wanted to happen

[01:34:14] But re-watching this

[01:34:16] It is astounding Hollywood has not tried to remake this movie

[01:34:18] Hmm interesting

[01:34:20] It feels like such an obvious

[01:34:22] As an animated film?

[01:34:24] No as a live action film

[01:34:26] As a live action film

[01:34:28] Being Julia, bam

[01:34:30] Well they nailed it

[01:34:32] I mean I think that the closest equivalent is Damien Chazelle's Babylon

[01:34:34] Which is more of a love letter to movies than to a specific actress

[01:34:36] I think like

[01:34:38] I think that Hollywood was trying to remake in live action

[01:34:40] For like 10 years and finally seems to have given up on

[01:34:42] And part of the struggle was that they were like

[01:34:44] We cannot figure out how to culturally transpose

[01:34:46] This thing

[01:34:48] It is so specific to Japanese history

[01:34:50] And they were trying to do it with indigenous Americans

[01:34:52] And it never totally worked

[01:34:54] It went through different directors

[01:34:56] This movie you could transpose in live action

[01:34:58] Sure

[01:35:00] On to American film history

[01:35:02] With the exact same narrative structure

[01:35:04] And the documentary filmmakers are entering the narrative

[01:35:07] I mean I want it to happen

[01:35:09] But I just like cynically

[01:35:11] You're like there aren't two actresses

[01:35:13] Who are like desperately clawing for the rights

[01:35:15] To this movie to set it up

[01:35:17] To remake it themselves

[01:35:19] As like a star vehicle

[01:35:21] As the two ages

[01:35:23] I wonder if the relative anonymity

[01:35:25] Of Satoshi Kon has helped that

[01:35:27] Because yeah

[01:35:29] It's not even one of his most well known films

[01:35:31] Also would it depict the civil war?

[01:35:33] Well

[01:35:35] I think we maybe want to go back

[01:35:37] You don't want to go back?

[01:35:39] Be a northerner

[01:35:41] Fall in love with a northerner

[01:35:43] I'm just saying

[01:35:45] In your name they couldn't figure out how to do the thing

[01:35:47] Where you make the sake out of the virgin spit

[01:35:49] That was the thing they couldn't crack

[01:35:51] I can't find an analog for this

[01:35:53] The weird cosmic love story

[01:35:55] Yeah they could crack

[01:35:57] There's a lot of like

[01:35:59] The spit is kind of pivotal in your name

[01:36:01] They gotta make the chair movie in America

[01:36:04] Yeah

[01:36:06] The hot chair

[01:36:08] He is hot and he's also a kung fu kicking chair

[01:36:10] I love that chair

[01:36:12] A three legged kung fu kicking chair

[01:36:14] We did our award show episode

[01:36:16] And we'll take notes throughout the year

[01:36:18] Of like what my picks would be

[01:36:20] And what would be funny awards to give out

[01:36:22] And the one I fucking forgot to read was

[01:36:24] Most handsome chair

[01:36:26] It was fierce competition

[01:36:28] He is very handsome

[01:36:30] He is and he's handsome in chair form

[01:36:33] As good as millennial actresses

[01:36:35] At no point 10 minutes into the movie

[01:36:37] Does anyone turn into a chair and then not turn back into a person

[01:36:39] He was the only note I have for this one

[01:36:41] It's the only thing I would hold against it

[01:36:43] I think we could have used a talking kung fu fighting chair

[01:36:45] Every movie could

[01:36:47] I've talked about it

[01:36:49] I probably talked about it

[01:36:51] Just the growing realization where I'm like

[01:36:53] Okay he's gonna be a chair for a bit

[01:36:55] He's still a chair

[01:36:57] I've seen this guy's movies

[01:36:59] He might have the guy be a chair the whole time

[01:37:01] It's not primarily a chair transformation

[01:37:03] It's about natural disasters

[01:37:05] And instead it's about this guy in a chair

[01:37:07] The guy's just kinda going on his chair journey

[01:37:09] To the side of the main story

[01:37:11] They're chasing after a cat

[01:37:13] Who cursed them to be a chair

[01:37:15] That movie rolls so hard

[01:37:17] Is he working on something new?

[01:37:19] Do we know?

[01:37:21] Those are films that would be impossible

[01:37:23] To localize

[01:37:25] To adapt

[01:37:27] To remake

[01:37:30] And obviously other filmmakers have pulled elements of Satoshi Kon's work

[01:37:32] It just feels like this is a movie

[01:37:34] That you could remake

[01:37:36] And the changes you would have to make

[01:37:38] Mapping it onto American culture

[01:37:40] Would make it different enough

[01:37:42] That it's almost a worthwhile effort

[01:37:44] I agree with you to an extent

[01:37:46] Because I think now more than ever

[01:37:48] It's actually more possible to make this kind of film

[01:37:50] Even in Satoshi Kon's style

[01:37:52] I think of Everything, Everywhere, All at Once

[01:37:54] Which the Daniels have cited Satoshi Kon as inspiration

[01:37:56] And influence

[01:37:58] And the rapid fire editing and framing

[01:38:00] And blocking of their films

[01:38:02] And that's the closest I've seen in live action

[01:38:04] To Satoshi Kon being made real

[01:38:06] There's an understanding of the language

[01:38:08] And there's a democratization

[01:38:10] Of the technology

[01:38:12] That would make it easy enough

[01:38:14] To replicate these kinds of transitions

[01:38:16] I'm just like

[01:38:18] I think this is the best version

[01:38:20] Of this movie that could ever be made

[01:38:22] I'm not advocating for someone to make another version

[01:38:24] But I'm just like

[01:38:27] It's so fucking poignant

[01:38:29] And part of it is it's just poking a lot of

[01:38:31] The bruises of my favorite types of stories

[01:38:33] Where I'm like

[01:38:35] I love shifting between reality and memory and fantasy

[01:38:37] You love yearning

[01:38:39] I love yearning

[01:38:41] I love movies about the complicated history of movies

[01:38:43] And our relationship to them

[01:38:45] I like any movie that's basically someone about to die

[01:38:47] Trying to make sense of their entire life

[01:38:49] In a final moment

[01:38:51] Especially if they're dumping it all into another person

[01:38:53] Who's overwhelmed

[01:38:56] And the fact that this movie's able to do all of that

[01:38:58] In 88 minutes is astonishing

[01:39:00] I'm pulling a bridge in Madison County

[01:39:02] Go on

[01:39:04] I'm dying and putting in one suitcase

[01:39:06] Like

[01:39:08] You're not gonna bring over

[01:39:10] He never did anything

[01:39:12] It was like no I had one emotional affair

[01:39:14] It's in the suitcase

[01:39:16] It was a weekend

[01:39:18] But you lost the key

[01:39:20] Yeah

[01:39:22] That'd be funny if they tried to open it

[01:39:24] Those are real opposite ends of metaphor

[01:39:26] Someone gives you a key and you hold onto it forever

[01:39:28] For the rest of your life

[01:39:30] And when you lose it you chase after it

[01:39:32] Versus Clint taking everything

[01:39:34] Putting it in the suitcase

[01:39:36] And being like I don't know it's in the basement

[01:39:38] I never want to look at that again

[01:39:40] It would be funny if they went and found Clint

[01:39:42] In that movie

[01:39:44] And he just lives in a tree

[01:39:46] He's like a thousand years old

[01:39:48] What if you make Millennium Actor with Clint

[01:39:50] Oh fuck

[01:39:53] Who plays Clint

[01:39:55] I'm saying Clint plays

[01:39:57] Not Scott Eastwood

[01:39:59] Oh who plays young Clint

[01:40:01] That's the advantage of animation

[01:40:03] We backed into the issue

[01:40:05] If we set that up

[01:40:07] We don't get away from Scott

[01:40:09] Now what someone would do

[01:40:11] What do you mean AI

[01:40:13] I'll clean Clint right up

[01:40:15] He'll be as young as new

[01:40:17] Go right to rawhide with him

[01:40:19] Isn't there some sort of like

[01:40:21] Just two great actresses

[01:40:23] Sure that sounds fun

[01:40:25] The other problem with the Clint movies

[01:40:27] They'd be like tell us about this movie

[01:40:29] And he's like too late we already wrapped

[01:40:31] I shot it in 12 minutes

[01:40:33] I barely remember

[01:40:35] That film is actually fast forwarded

[01:40:37] The take was done before we even started

[01:40:39] Also it would just be him telling the documentary

[01:40:41] Guys that they were all rooted in

[01:40:43] Although maybe you would have a talking chair

[01:40:45] In that because

[01:40:47] He likes to talk to chairs

[01:40:50] So is that the one Clint needs to remake

[01:40:52] I like this kid

[01:40:54] Clint that's a chair

[01:40:56] He's got the face of an old movie star

[01:40:58] I'm going into production on my 95th film

[01:41:00] A live action remake of Suzume

[01:41:02] I love these warm portals

[01:41:04] I play the chair

[01:41:06] He's just like Clint walking around

[01:41:08] Ikea being like I'm looking for my star

[01:41:10] He's here somewhere

[01:41:12] Or 1517 style

[01:41:14] He just casts the chair

[01:41:16] He's sitting on at that moment

[01:41:19] Why look further

[01:41:21] I knew it

[01:41:23] It truly is

[01:41:25] God

[01:41:27] They only let him do that once

[01:41:29] Why go to Ikea when we have chair at home

[01:41:31] Truly probably Richard Dooley

[01:41:33] He's like we'll just cast the real

[01:41:35] He died

[01:41:37] God damn it now I have to do auditions

[01:41:39] I'm furious

[01:41:41] They railroaded me into making this movie

[01:41:43] Why didn't anyone tell me he was dead

[01:41:45] Clint

[01:41:47] Yeah

[01:41:49] Ok so what are some of the other movies

[01:41:51] There's this sort of

[01:41:53] The booklet here has the full fictional filmography

[01:41:55] Oh please there you go

[01:41:57] Heroism of the Wounded Soldier

[01:41:59] I'm reading the American titles

[01:42:01] Yearning for You, Castle of Phantoms

[01:42:03] Scarlet Glory

[01:42:05] They're good titles

[01:42:07] Shiyoko's Seven Ninja Transformations

[01:42:09] Shimbara Pure Love

[01:42:11] The Song of Snow

[01:42:14] The Legend of the Black Tengu

[01:42:16] Encounters the Madonna of Tokyo

[01:42:18] Schoolhouse in Spring

[01:42:20] Midsummer Horizon

[01:42:22] The Garden of Women

[01:42:24] House of Fossils

[01:42:26] Some of these make brief appearances

[01:42:28] Giglia

[01:42:30] The Truck General

[01:42:32] Chapter of the Race on the Noble Highway

[01:42:34] Planet Z

[01:42:36] Is her final film

[01:42:38] I have to say I love that Shiyoko

[01:42:40] Was never limited to

[01:42:42] The prestige films

[01:42:44] She was doing kaiju movies

[01:42:46] When that Godzilla type

[01:42:48] Rolls up and it's just a dragon

[01:42:50] I was like this is great

[01:42:52] But she's doing sequels to her

[01:42:54] Samurai film where she was

[01:42:56] Where she's basically just like Bandit now

[01:42:58] And it's like definitely a direct

[01:43:00] To video B movie sequel

[01:43:02] Where they're like what if you were showing off your legs

[01:43:04] Right

[01:43:06] I think of Setsuko Hara

[01:43:08] From the like three

[01:43:11] Ozzy movies I've seen her in

[01:43:13] And she made like a hundred movies

[01:43:15] Yes

[01:43:17] I'm sure some of them were trash

[01:43:19] No offense

[01:43:21] But someone like Lillian Gish who starts young in silent films

[01:43:23] And then you're like because of when she was born

[01:43:25] Her career spans like the entire

[01:43:27] Arc of film figuring out

[01:43:29] What it is

[01:43:31] Where it's like oh and then she's gonna get to like talking westerns

[01:43:33] Right

[01:43:35] And she's gonna do like later old lady noir parts

[01:43:37] And all these sorts of things

[01:43:40] It's sort of like

[01:43:42] Being alive the years this character was alive

[01:43:44] You couldn't be pretentious about your career

[01:43:46] Because the industry

[01:43:48] Is like rebuilding itself

[01:43:50] And reshaping itself

[01:43:52] And the country is literally rebuilding itself too

[01:43:54] So like if you survive

[01:43:56] If you continue working across decades

[01:43:58] You're gonna make every type of film

[01:44:00] Yeah

[01:44:04] We eventually do cut back to the movie

[01:44:06] From the start of the movie

[01:44:08] And we're covering a ruined landscape

[01:44:10] Post war

[01:44:12] One assumes

[01:44:14] Like a sort of bombed out landscape

[01:44:16] I do like the line from the filmmaker guy

[01:44:18] Who when they get to the

[01:44:20] Right before her hometown gets bombed

[01:44:22] He says is this a sci-fi movie

[01:44:24] And no it's reality

[01:44:26] Yeah

[01:44:28] But also again the Japanese cinema had decades

[01:44:30] Of processing that reality

[01:44:32] Through genre

[01:44:34] And the horrors of the real life war

[01:44:37] Felt so absurd

[01:44:39] That they feel like a sci-fi film

[01:44:41] But they had to turn into monsters

[01:44:43] But he is putting both sides of the coin

[01:44:45] Because the man she falls in love with

[01:44:47] Is a dissident opposing

[01:44:49] The Japanese invasion of China

[01:44:51] The sort of like pre-war

[01:44:53] You know kind of

[01:44:55] Imperialism of Japan

[01:44:57] And then like the post war trauma

[01:44:59] It's so funny

[01:45:01] In the interviews

[01:45:03] He's like yeah I don't know

[01:45:05] This is what I'm saying

[01:45:07] And it's such a dense complicated film

[01:45:09] It's like astonishing

[01:45:11] That it feels like he kind of landed on this

[01:45:13] By accident

[01:45:15] But had the rigor to be like

[01:45:17] If I'm gonna tell this I need to now do the work

[01:45:19] And fucking study this well enough

[01:45:21] To be able to paint it properly

[01:45:23] Good for him he did it

[01:45:25] He's a great fucking filmmaker

[01:45:27] This movie is so

[01:45:29] It's so good

[01:45:31] Masterpiece

[01:45:34] The character who keeps showing up and saving her

[01:45:36] The ghosty lady

[01:45:38] No the like

[01:45:40] He is

[01:45:42] Yeah yeah

[01:45:44] It's the younger version of the documentary

[01:45:46] Where he can't help but insert himself

[01:45:48] And be her savior

[01:45:50] It's not actually him

[01:45:52] It is him

[01:45:54] In every single occurrence

[01:45:56] There's always this character type

[01:45:58] That's recurring

[01:46:00] The kindness of strangers

[01:46:03] I think it's interesting that

[01:46:05] She's always playing a very specific type of role

[01:46:07] The woman who is

[01:46:09] Pure of heart

[01:46:11] But also has a little bit of fire and spark in her

[01:46:13] But also will

[01:46:15] Has that purity of spirit

[01:46:17] That men will immediately jump in to save her

[01:46:19] So it's kind of like

[01:46:21] In a way

[01:46:23] It gets to this sort of

[01:46:25] Conservative idea

[01:46:27] Of women

[01:46:29] The purity of women

[01:46:31] Which I think a lot of Miyazaki films actually get into

[01:46:33] Like the purity of spirit

[01:46:35] And that is something that kind of drives

[01:46:37] Her roles as well as

[01:46:39] Her fans who feel like they have to

[01:46:41] Protect her

[01:46:43] Right who's ruled by this unrequited

[01:46:45] Love

[01:46:47] Like she's forever sort of

[01:46:49] I mean we've gone through that purity

[01:46:51] Yes

[01:46:53] Shimao ends up taking her key

[01:46:57] I mean it's funny how quickly the movie

[01:47:00] Freezes over this

[01:47:02] But it's like the key is stolen

[01:47:04] It feels like she sort of loses her drive to work

[01:47:06] In the same degree

[01:47:08] She ends up marrying this director

[01:47:10] Sort of set up by an executive

[01:47:12] And her career starts to like

[01:47:14] Slow down

[01:47:16] She becomes a housewife

[01:47:18] But then maybe she's just playing housewives

[01:47:20] Yeah

[01:47:22] You see the posters of her throughout the movie

[01:47:24] And there's this poster of her as like

[01:47:26] A nice middle aged lady

[01:47:28] She's making less thrilling films

[01:47:32] You see this confrontation with like

[01:47:34] A mother or mother in law

[01:47:36] Where she's basically like a woman's happiness

[01:47:38] Is making a nice home

[01:47:40] Oh that was an interesting scene

[01:47:42] Because we see that scene playing out first

[01:47:44] Between her and her actual mother

[01:47:46] And then it cuts

[01:47:48] And it's actually Shimao

[01:47:50] The lady, the actress

[01:47:52] Who has always been sort of her antagonist

[01:47:54] Her Bette Midler

[01:47:57] I love that scene

[01:47:59] It's another one of those effortlessly cut scenes

[01:48:01] That you're like, oh yeah

[01:48:03] We're still in this

[01:48:07] David, you know what I hate?

[01:48:09] What?

[01:48:11] Weak short erections

[01:48:13] I just hate them

[01:48:15] They grind my gears

[01:48:17] You just come right out and say it

[01:48:19] What if I told you that longer, stronger

[01:48:21] Lasting elections were just a click away

[01:48:23] Why that's the opposite

[01:48:25] Of what I just told you

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[01:49:04] Now David, just on behalf of a good friend

[01:49:06] Isn't there maybe a promo code

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[01:49:10] Well, you can use code check

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[01:49:22] I find it interesting

[01:49:28] The reaction that Genya

[01:49:30] The filmmaker

[01:49:32] Always has against the director

[01:49:34] That Shioko marries

[01:49:36] It's a kind of

[01:49:38] I wonder if it stems from that protectiveness

[01:49:40] He feels as a fan

[01:49:42] Where he is just like any man

[01:49:44] Who is exploiting

[01:49:46] The woman I love

[01:49:48] Is always going to be evil

[01:49:50] But I don't know why

[01:49:52] But for a long time

[01:49:54] And this is from my first or early watches of it

[01:49:56] I had that idea in my head

[01:49:58] And then when I watched it again

[01:50:00] I was like, oh I guess he didn't

[01:50:02] But I always had that sort of feeling

[01:50:04] Yeah, yeah

[01:50:06] I guess in his mind it's more just like

[01:50:08] He domesticated her

[01:50:10] And he was older than her too

[01:50:12] When they first met

[01:50:14] So there's definitely that degree of power imbalance

[01:50:16] To this guy it's almost like

[01:50:18] There is a form of abuse

[01:50:20] In not allowing her to continue

[01:50:22] As an artist at the scale

[01:50:25] I'm in love with her work

[01:50:27] I think she's incredible

[01:50:29] I stand here and sit off to the sides

[01:50:31] And watch her work and try to help her

[01:50:33] And suddenly there is some shift now

[01:50:35] Where her career is throttling down

[01:50:37] You would hate that guy

[01:50:39] In the way like

[01:50:41] If I'm a super fan

[01:50:43] Insane modern fandom will get upset

[01:50:45] Like if Colin Farrell got married tomorrow

[01:50:47] And stopped acting

[01:50:49] Yeah

[01:50:51] People burning their Ana de Armas cardboard cutouts

[01:50:53] Exactly, that kind of thing

[01:50:55] But there's this pile up of

[01:50:57] You have that whole sort of moment

[01:50:59] The transition between her conversation

[01:51:01] With her mother and Chi Mao

[01:51:03] The key going missing

[01:51:05] Zhenya saving her life

[01:51:07] I guess happens a little bit later

[01:51:09] But that whole like

[01:51:11] Marriage happens very quickly

[01:51:13] And the movie sort of treats it like

[01:51:15] She just has this kind of like lost ten years

[01:51:17] Where she's trying to play house

[01:51:19] And doing less engaging work

[01:51:22] And then how does she ultimately find the key again?

[01:51:24] She finds it in his office

[01:51:26] Yeah, because you have her basically

[01:51:28] Breaking down as

[01:51:30] Both a young married woman

[01:51:32] And as an old woman

[01:51:34] And then she's cleaning his office one day

[01:51:36] And she just finds it

[01:51:38] Yes, and then we have that scene where it turns out

[01:51:40] They're having this confrontation on a set

[01:51:42] Which is very interesting

[01:51:44] For no audience

[01:51:46] You see the lights go out behind them

[01:51:48] Which is very cool

[01:51:51] But it's like they literally took her

[01:51:53] Artistic yearning and put it in a box

[01:51:55] And said don't worry about this

[01:51:57] And then she sort of got the spark again

[01:51:59] She found it again

[01:52:01] And she made Planet Z which I want to see

[01:52:03] It looks fucking rad as hell

[01:52:05] It's a moon invasion movie

[01:52:07] I want to say

[01:52:09] I'm just saying if tomorrow someone was like

[01:52:11] I'm making a movie called Planet Z

[01:52:13] I would be interested

[01:52:15] Don't worry, I'm on it

[01:52:17] It'll be done tomorrow

[01:52:19] I'm taking a chair to the moon

[01:52:21] Clinton is chair, going to the moon

[01:52:23] Clinton you can slow down on this one

[01:52:25] No, I'm going faster

[01:52:27] Like I assume he took a minute

[01:52:29] To make Space Cowboys, right?

[01:52:31] Maybe not

[01:52:33] It is so funny the couple of times

[01:52:35] Like that and hereafter where he's made

[01:52:37] Movies with like a ton of CGI

[01:52:39] Where they have to like

[01:52:41] Fucking projection map

[01:52:43] Donald Sutherland's face onto a

[01:52:45] CGI astronaut suit and you're like

[01:52:48] He's like it's already done

[01:52:50] No way, he's like

[01:52:52] Just print

[01:52:54] Go Clint, that's a storyboard

[01:52:56] Print it

[01:52:58] Where's the print button

[01:53:00] Now we're making younger Clint

[01:53:02] Into just like a senile Joe Biden parody

[01:53:04] Well that's the Millennium Actress way

[01:53:06] I'm done painting the wagon

[01:53:08] I think I've already said this

[01:53:10] But he should make a movie about Joe Biden

[01:53:12] Getting railroaded for being too old

[01:53:14] I know it's probably not in his politics

[01:53:16] But I think returning to Biden would probably resonate

[01:53:18] With Clint Eastwood

[01:53:20] Just cause he's a million years old

[01:53:22] I can wake up with the best of them

[01:53:24] I get out of bed everyday

[01:53:26] Good for him

[01:53:28] He probably doesn't direct from a chair like Scorsese does

[01:53:30] True

[01:53:32] Scorsese really did look like he was

[01:53:34] About to turn into an enchanted sleeping frog

[01:53:36] At the Oscars

[01:53:38] He looked very old

[01:53:40] Oh sorry, it was really Scott who directs from a chair

[01:53:42] Then he naps between takes

[01:53:45] I bet he wakes up from those naps grouchy

[01:53:47] Yes

[01:53:49] Because that's how he films so fast

[01:53:51] He directs from a chair that he naps on

[01:53:53] That's great

[01:53:55] Chair, not bed

[01:53:57] My experience, I was on the vinyl pilot

[01:53:59] The Worst Things Scorsese Ever Directed

[01:54:01] And that's like 10 years ago at this point

[01:54:03] Well 8

[01:54:05] And still far and away the worst thing he's ever done

[01:54:07] No I'm just saying he was a little more spry

[01:54:09] But yeah he's early 70's at that point

[01:54:11] He has his video Village

[01:54:14] And they would literally construct a pillow fort around it

[01:54:16] So sometimes it was like

[01:54:18] Cardboard boxes taped together

[01:54:20] Sometimes depending on where we were filming

[01:54:22] They would literally take pillows and put them around him

[01:54:24] Or chairs or whatever it was

[01:54:26] But he's sort of closed off

[01:54:28] They kept on saying it was because

[01:54:30] And I believe this

[01:54:32] His asthma is so bad

[01:54:34] And that show was just lousy with people fake smoking

[01:54:36] That he couldn't be on set that often

[01:54:38] And so it was like

[01:54:40] You do like 3 to 5 takes

[01:54:42] And his first AD would come out and just be like

[01:54:44] He's happy, keep doing it

[01:54:46] And then after like 5 takes

[01:54:48] The door would open

[01:54:50] The cardboard door

[01:54:52] And Marty would storm out looking like the man from Up

[01:54:54] I'm guessing like amid a plume of smoke

[01:54:56] Basically

[01:54:58] They'd bring out a giant

[01:55:00] Fan, like pipe

[01:55:02] To blow the smoke out of there

[01:55:04] And then he'd come out and give like a bunch of notes

[01:55:06] For 5 minutes

[01:55:08] And then keep going, go do the other thing

[01:55:11] And by the time he was like sitting in his little fort

[01:55:15] Ari Aster just announced his new moving

[01:55:17] The Western?

[01:55:19] Yeah, Eddington

[01:55:21] Wow. Did they announce the cast?

[01:55:23] Lockheed, Pedro, Emma Stone

[01:55:25] Luke Grimes

[01:55:27] Austin Butler

[01:55:29] Michael Ward

[01:55:31] From Empire of Light and stuff

[01:55:33] Sure, yeah

[01:55:35] Clifton Collins Jr.

[01:55:37] It's like he was like

[01:55:39] Nabbin Butler is kind of a big thing

[01:55:41] At this point

[01:55:43] Right now with Butler it's like

[01:55:45] When does that guy roll snake eyes

[01:55:47] He's just like hitting

[01:55:49] After Dune he has Bike Riders

[01:55:51] Where he is taking the baton

[01:55:53] I forgot about Bike Riders

[01:55:55] I mean he's not bad at it or anything

[01:55:57] I haven't seen it but I do know

[01:55:59] That he's doing a weird voice

[01:56:01] And he's taking the baton from the king of weird voices

[01:56:03] Tom Hardy himself

[01:56:05] What if that's the millennium actress

[01:56:08] I've done so many weird voices

[01:56:10] He could play the actor throughout the centuries

[01:56:12] Or the decades

[01:56:14] Because he would just do a different weird voice

[01:56:16] He would

[01:56:18] He'd be great

[01:56:20] But then who's old Tom?

[01:56:22] Tom, obviously

[01:56:24] Tom in old age makeup

[01:56:26] He plays it all

[01:56:28] You think he would let anyone else do that?

[01:56:30] He would love it

[01:56:32] I'm so old

[01:56:34] My bones

[01:56:37] What's he doing?

[01:56:39] He's doing fucking Venom

[01:56:41] But it is weird

[01:56:43] I mean I'm fine with that obviously

[01:56:45] But I would like him to do some other stuff

[01:56:47] I like that the franchise he's stuck in is at least one

[01:56:49] That's totally based around his personality

[01:56:51] And performance

[01:56:53] It's not like he's doing clocking in

[01:56:55] Clocking out work

[01:56:57] But it is weird how much his output slowed down

[01:56:59] He did a lot

[01:57:01] I guess it's hard to keep that up

[01:57:03] He also fucked up his legs

[01:57:07] Because he did the symbiote

[01:57:09] Because he wore weird boots on Venom

[01:57:11] I'm telling you

[01:57:13] And not even like for when he was doing mocap

[01:57:15] Or whatever

[01:57:17] He was like I saw these boots I thought they looked cool

[01:57:19] I wore them and they fucked up my legs

[01:57:21] What kind of boots were these?

[01:57:23] I don't know

[01:57:25] He wore them inside out

[01:57:27] I think he's had a lot of surgeries in between the Venom movies

[01:57:29] For these fucking boots

[01:57:31] A lot of surgeries?

[01:57:33] I'm not kidding you

[01:57:35] I love these boots so much

[01:57:37] Two knee surgeries after making Venom 1

[01:57:39] But that was because Richard Fleischer kept kicking him in the knees

[01:57:41] Not Fleischer what's his name?

[01:57:43] Ruben Fleischer

[01:57:45] My knees were fucked

[01:57:49] My knees were fucked

[01:57:51] I'm not gonna try it

[01:57:53] Your knees were born in the darkness

[01:57:55] Whatever he says

[01:57:57] I should watch that again

[01:57:59] Yeah they should bring Bane back

[01:58:01] What if James Gunn announced phase 2 Bane

[01:58:04] Now that I have my Oscar

[01:58:06] I'm making a Batman movie

[01:58:08] Is Batman in it?

[01:58:10] No

[01:58:12] Just Bane

[01:58:14] Chaos of DC film slate

[01:58:16] Everyone trying to let James Gunn

[01:58:18] Give him the time and space

[01:58:20] Everyone trying to give James Gunn the time and space

[01:58:22] To actually try to build this thing properly

[01:58:24] If Christopher Nolan walks into Warner Brothers

[01:58:26] Holding his Oscars

[01:58:28] Slams them down and goes Bane movie

[01:58:30] Can anyone say no to him?

[01:58:32] He's got that blank check now

[01:58:34] He has the blankest of blank checks

[01:58:36] I saw someone say

[01:58:38] There was some tweet from an anonymous

[01:58:40] He could make a movie called My Dick

[01:58:42] What's it about?

[01:58:44] He's gonna make a MacGruber movie

[01:58:46] Because that's his favorite movie

[01:58:48] That would be fun

[01:58:50] Some film executive who was

[01:58:52] Anonymous source quoted on Twitter

[01:58:54] By some entertainment journalist the other day

[01:58:56] Said he may, it is arguable

[01:58:58] That Christopher Nolan is the biggest

[01:59:01] And I think it's an evocative thing to think about

[01:59:03] Yeah, it's interesting

[01:59:05] There's an argument

[01:59:07] But he's going to make something probably weird next

[01:59:09] Maybe not, maybe he'll do the opposite

[01:59:11] And make a super genre-y silly thing

[01:59:13] But what's wild is that Tennant and

[01:59:15] Oppenheimer both feel like

[01:59:17] Movies you only get made after

[01:59:19] You've just won best picture

[01:59:21] Yes, and he won best picture for one of them

[01:59:23] One of them's really silly, one of them's very serious

[01:59:25] Both of them feel like

[01:59:27] I guess we can't tell you what to do movies

[01:59:30] I just want to rewatch Tennant

[01:59:32] It's just impossible

[01:59:34] I rewatched it recently on the big screen

[01:59:36] They had that re-release on IMAX

[01:59:38] It was amazing, it rocked hard

[01:59:40] It's so cool

[01:59:42] Even when you zone out

[01:59:44] Because sometimes you might zone out

[01:59:46] It's great to zone out in Tennant

[01:59:48] That makes it better

[01:59:50] But even when you zone out

[01:59:52] You come back in and the coolest thing ever

[01:59:54] Is happening on screen

[01:59:56] You're also like what's going on

[01:59:58] The soldier comes back

[02:00:00] Reveals

[02:00:02] She goes off and runs out

[02:00:04] After

[02:00:06] Let me get this

[02:00:08] The timing of this right

[02:00:10] Because basically later

[02:00:12] Once she's in the hospital, Jania releases the cameraman

[02:00:14] That he had the remainder of the conversation

[02:00:16] With the soldier

[02:00:18] That she didn't hear

[02:00:20] That he killed him

[02:00:22] Yes, that he was tortured and killed

[02:00:24] After his arrest

[02:00:27] The man with the scar on his face

[02:00:29] Who would appear in some of her movies too

[02:00:31] As sort of like the

[02:00:33] Vision that she had

[02:00:35] That she was always running from in a way

[02:00:37] In confessing this he's trying to like atone

[02:00:39] Or whatever

[02:00:41] I'm sorry that I did this

[02:00:43] But she doesn't hear the full confession

[02:00:45] He only confesses to Jania

[02:00:47] Then there is a literal earthquake

[02:00:49] She is hospitalized

[02:00:51] We're back in the present day

[02:00:53] She's on her hospital bed

[02:00:55] Jania is like you're about to pull through

[02:00:57] This is great

[02:00:59] And that's when she's like

[02:01:01] Nah bro, it was all about the chase

[02:01:03] Peace

[02:01:05] Right? I mean basically

[02:01:07] Like incredible final line

[02:01:09] And also she says I'll chase him in heaven too

[02:01:11] Which is just like she's gonna continue the chase

[02:01:13] It's not even about finding him

[02:01:15] That key is gonna work in heaven

[02:01:17] The afterlife

[02:01:19] Sequel to Millennium Actress

[02:01:21] Chiyoko

[02:01:24] Through the what?

[02:01:26] Seven circles of hell

[02:01:28] Nine circles of hell

[02:01:30] Finding her man

[02:01:32] Yeah she's like in heaven and then she's like no I must depart

[02:01:34] But here's the problem

[02:01:36] The real sequel to Millennium Actress

[02:01:38] Would probably be called Zoomer Influencer

[02:01:40] On TikTok

[02:01:42] Jeez I hope they ban it soon

[02:01:44] Zoomer Influencer Ben

[02:01:46] It's so funny

[02:01:48] How old crusty weirdos

[02:01:50] In congress right now

[02:01:53] And me and people I know are like

[02:01:55] I hope they do

[02:01:57] I'd love it to be banned

[02:01:59] Just for my personal mental health

[02:02:01] Anyway Millennium Actress world premiere

[02:02:03] Was at Fantasia International Film Festival

[02:02:05] In 2001

[02:02:07] Released in Japan September 14th

[02:02:09] 2002

[02:02:11] American release doesn't happen until

[02:02:13] What's that?

[02:02:15] I got a bite

[02:02:17] They went fishing

[02:02:19] Go fish

[02:02:21] Go fish as we said

[02:02:23] Rumors circulated they asked him to

[02:02:25] Recut the film for American audiences

[02:02:27] He says this was never the case

[02:02:29] He didn't love how they

[02:02:31] Handled the

[02:02:33] Poster is the one with her sort of standing

[02:02:35] With a sword surrounded by the photos

[02:02:37] It looks a little more

[02:02:39] Like it's sort of evoking like

[02:02:41] Sort of House of Flying Daggers

[02:02:43] Well that hasn't even come out yet but

[02:02:45] You know like Crouching Tiger I guess

[02:02:47] But not really it's still a fine poster

[02:02:50] Cool is the original poster which is really awesome

[02:02:52] Yeah

[02:02:54] Well Cohn didn't like it he said it

[02:02:56] Sabotaged the culture of the film

[02:02:58] To put it bluntly what the hell

[02:03:00] Samuel Goldwyn Pictures

[02:03:02] As you said Griffin

[02:03:04] For some insane reason decided to

[02:03:06] Rush Tokyo Godfathers into theaters

[02:03:08] Just two months later

[02:03:10] Three months later

[02:03:12] After like cause this is coming out

[02:03:14] And this was kind of de rigueur at the time

[02:03:16] That Japanese films are coming out in the states

[02:03:18] I mean like Hero was nominated for best foreign film

[02:03:20] Two years before it was actually

[02:03:22] Released in theaters and shit like that

[02:03:24] Well that was cause of Weinstein

[02:03:26] Samuel Goldwyn was like we gotta get this thing out now

[02:03:28] So he has two movies come out

[02:03:30] In America within two months of each other

[02:03:32] Even though they had been made

[02:03:34] And released years apart

[02:03:36] Film was well received only grossed $37,000

[02:03:38] In America though but got good reviews

[02:03:40] Barely a chum scrubber

[02:03:42] Yeah didn't even

[02:03:44] They didn't even crack the chum

[02:03:47] Let's look at the release date

[02:03:49] For the box office game Griffin

[02:03:51] Which is September 12, 2003

[02:03:53] Now Millennium Actress is opening

[02:03:55] Number 75 in one theater

[02:03:57] No I'm sorry

[02:03:59] Six theaters

[02:04:01] Tough to make the 75

[02:04:03] Right in between the 10th weekend

[02:04:05] Of the highly underrated Tim Feilwell drama

[02:04:07] I Capture the Castle

[02:04:09] And a film I've never heard of

[02:04:11] Called 30 Years to Life

[02:04:13] Don't know it

[02:04:16] It's an ensemble comedy

[02:04:18] Love those with Erica Alexander

[02:04:20] Okay

[02:04:22] Number one

[02:04:24] 30 Years to Life a joke where it sounds like a prison sentence

[02:04:26] But the movie is about marriage

[02:04:28] That old chain and ball

[02:04:30] The real

[02:04:32] Number one

[02:04:34] There are three films new films at the top three this week

[02:04:36] Number one

[02:04:38] It's a sequel

[02:04:40] September 2003

[02:04:42] Once upon a time in Mexico

[02:04:44] Salma Hayek

[02:04:46] Antonio Banderas

[02:04:48] Robert Rodriguez

[02:04:50] Coming out like six weeks after Pirates of the Caribbean

[02:04:52] Where they were like

[02:04:54] Depp is

[02:04:56] Very funny in it

[02:04:58] But he is a supporting character

[02:05:00] But he is kind of mostly

[02:05:02] What I remember about the movie

[02:05:04] I have not seen the film

[02:05:06] I remember

[02:05:08] Being a bit of a slog

[02:05:10] But all three of those movies

[02:05:43] Have you seen Once upon a time in Mexico

[02:05:45] I have not

[02:05:47] That's when I missed

[02:05:49] I have seen clips of Antonio Banderas looking extremely hot

[02:05:51] Him and Salma

[02:05:53] Looking the hottest together

[02:05:55] Salma is also barely in that movie

[02:05:57] Like she's above the title

[02:05:59] Huge on the poster

[02:06:01] The movie starts and they're like yeah she's been dead for ten years

[02:06:03] Yeah there's a big flashback sequence

[02:06:05] You're right though

[02:06:07] She was busy

[02:06:09] Making something

[02:06:11] We have a new this week

[02:06:13] An underrated film

[02:06:15] From a director we recently mentioned

[02:06:17] In the last half hour or so

[02:06:19] Interesting

[02:06:21] In a positive or negative way

[02:06:23] We were talking about his directing style

[02:06:25] And how he sits

[02:06:27] It's a Ridley movie

[02:06:29] Ridley Scott film

[02:06:31] September 2003

[02:06:33] Matchstick Man

[02:06:35] Nic Cage

[02:06:37] Sam Rockwell

[02:06:40] He's really fun

[02:06:42] There's a big twist

[02:06:44] Several

[02:06:46] Bruce McGill's in it

[02:06:48] What do you want

[02:06:50] Pigs

[02:06:52] Medicine

[02:06:54] Number three at the box office

[02:06:56] It's a horror film

[02:06:58] I believe it's a debut

[02:07:00] A debut

[02:07:02] For a frequent

[02:07:04] Director in this genre

[02:07:06] It is his debut

[02:07:09] He's not annoying

[02:07:11] You find him not annoying

[02:07:13] Honestly I actually find him

[02:07:15] Someone charming

[02:07:17] Actually in interviews

[02:07:19] But you find his movies annoying

[02:07:21] He's got a bit of an annoying thing going on

[02:07:23] Is it a torture porny thing

[02:07:25] He would dabble in that

[02:07:27] This movie not so much

[02:07:29] This isn't Cabin Fever

[02:07:31] It is Cabin Fever

[02:07:33] That's not torture porny

[02:07:35] No but then he

[02:07:37] I do find him annoying

[02:07:39] The thing about him is I do find him annoying

[02:07:41] But then sometimes

[02:07:43] He will talk about the genre

[02:07:45] In nice ways sometimes

[02:07:47] Every time I start engaging

[02:07:49] With Eli Roth I'm like I find this guy annoying

[02:07:51] And by the end of the engagement

[02:07:53] I'm like why am I so tough on him

[02:07:55] And then I loop all the way back around to annoying

[02:07:57] It resets

[02:07:59] I was like I kind of like Thanksgiving

[02:08:01] I like Thanksgiving

[02:08:03] If you ask me what I think of the guy at this moment

[02:08:06] It's in cycles

[02:08:08] I did not see Thanksgiving

[02:08:10] Because I find Eli Roth annoying

[02:08:12] What about he put a house

[02:08:14] With a clock in its walls

[02:08:16] He put it inside the walls

[02:08:18] The house has a clock in its walls

[02:08:20] That's right

[02:08:22] I think he became for me one of those guys

[02:08:24] Where I was like can you make a movie

[02:08:26] Rather than talking to me

[02:08:28] Or being in other movies

[02:08:30] It definitely felt like there was a

[02:08:32] Disproportionate balance of how much people

[02:08:34] Like this guy is an important filmmaker

[02:08:36] Versus how infrequently he seemed to make movies

[02:08:38] Right he made like cabin fever hostile

[02:08:40] Hostile part 2 I'm like okay

[02:08:42] Then he doesn't make a movie for 6 years

[02:08:44] And then when he does it's the green inferno

[02:08:46] Which stinks

[02:08:48] Then he makes knock knock

[02:08:50] Which I think kind of stinks

[02:08:52] Then he made death which is way worse

[02:08:54] Than those two movies

[02:08:56] And then I guess I should see the house

[02:08:58] With a clock in its walls

[02:09:00] I was thinking the other day

[02:09:03] I remember watching a clip on Fallon

[02:09:05] Playing the saxaboom

[02:09:07] Which is a clip I go to a lot

[02:09:09] That's the one you can put on repeat whenever

[02:09:11] It's really good but at the end of it

[02:09:13] Jimmy Fallon comes out and goes

[02:09:15] The house with the clock in its walls

[02:09:17] In theaters now

[02:09:19] And so I just keep watching this clip

[02:09:21] That I find so funny and entertaining

[02:09:23] And then I'm reminded Jimmy Fallon yells at me

[02:09:25] About this movie I didn't see 8 years ago

[02:09:27] And I'm like would I secretly love this

[02:09:29] I just remember when Richard Lawson tweeted at us

[02:09:32] And I've just never forgotten that

[02:09:36] Few movies have ever dared to put a clock in balls

[02:09:38] Not and

[02:09:40] Number 4 at the box office

[02:09:42] It was number 1 the week before

[02:09:44] Opening to a robust

[02:09:46] Last week

[02:09:48] 6 million dollars

[02:09:50] It has dropped only 24%

[02:09:52] Good hold

[02:09:54] 5 million dollars

[02:09:56] So it is a comedy

[02:09:58] Now Ben may have seen this

[02:10:00] Now you may not have

[02:10:02] But you might have thought about it at least

[02:10:04] Can I just say what it is?

[02:10:06] It's Dickie Roberts Former Child Star

[02:10:08] Starring David Spade

[02:10:10] There's the limited grouping of movies that

[02:10:12] At least pre-COVID

[02:10:14] Where suddenly numbers went wackadoo

[02:10:16] In the slow reopening of theaters

[02:10:18] Where it's like what are the lowest number 1s

[02:10:20] Of all time

[02:10:22] What are the lowest number 1s in recent memory

[02:10:24] And there was always this tier of like

[02:10:26] The Second Weekend of The Watcher

[02:10:29] Bangkok Dangerous

[02:10:31] Movies that opened to number 1 with 6 million dollars

[02:10:33] Only we care about this

[02:10:35] We care about it so much

[02:10:37] Have you seen Dickie Roberts Former Child Star?

[02:10:39] I have not

[02:10:41] I've never even heard of it

[02:10:43] Well it was a David Spade vehicle in 2003

[02:10:45] But I do like David Spade

[02:10:47] So I can appreciate where you're coming from

[02:10:49] But no

[02:10:51] I assume you've also not seen it

[02:10:53] I've not seen it

[02:10:55] But David Spade used to be in movies

[02:10:57] Remember SNL?

[02:10:59] Tuesday you would write the sketches

[02:11:01] It's literally like

[02:11:03] At this point I'm like

[02:11:05] I could go to SNL and do the job

[02:11:07] I wouldn't be good at it

[02:11:09] But I would know where to go

[02:11:11] Little guide to working at SNL

[02:11:13] You're used to writing longhand

[02:11:15] Yeah I know you guys talk about this

[02:11:17] Every fucking week

[02:11:19] For so long

[02:11:21] Even though those guys

[02:11:23] Barely overlapped on the show

[02:11:26] They were in different circles on the show

[02:11:28] They were just like

[02:11:30] Who are two SNL guys we can put together

[02:11:32] I guess it's a good source of passive income for them

[02:11:34] Totally

[02:11:36] It might be primary income

[02:11:38] But then they also were like

[02:11:40] Having other SNL writers and cast members

[02:11:42] And then it would extend to like

[02:11:44] Hosts and producers on the show

[02:11:46] And then someone was tweeting the other day

[02:11:48] About who they've had on as guests recently

[02:11:50] And they're just fucking anybody now

[02:11:52] People who have no connection to SNL

[02:11:55] I'll go on their pod

[02:11:57] Has never written for SNL but thinks he could

[02:11:59] That's your title

[02:12:01] I'm like I could do it Tuesdays

[02:12:03] That's when you stay up all night

[02:12:05] I'll be ready for that

[02:12:07] And then Dress is on

[02:12:09] Beforehand

[02:12:11] I'm sorry the most recent guest

[02:12:13] On Fly on the Wall

[02:12:15] Was Ted Sarandos at time of recording

[02:12:17] Hey Ted how you doing

[02:12:19] But they did have a legendary

[02:12:21] SNL cast member Bill Simmons

[02:12:23] I'm sure that

[02:12:25] You can do these jokes now

[02:12:27] That you guys did

[02:12:29] Anyway

[02:12:31] Eight Heads in a Duffle Bag spades in that

[02:12:33] I watched it for Ben

[02:12:35] Have you ever seen that movie

[02:12:37] It's another one I haven't seen

[02:12:39] It's not one of my favorites

[02:12:41] It's a movie I like

[02:12:43] It stars Joe Pesci

[02:12:45] He has got to

[02:12:47] Deliver Eight Heads in a Duffle Bag

[02:12:49] Hijinks and soot

[02:12:52] We love a good hijink

[02:12:54] Things go wrong but in ways you wouldn't predict

[02:12:56] I believe as

[02:12:58] A 13 year old, 12 year old

[02:13:00] I auditioned for Dickie Roberts

[02:13:02] Former child star

[02:13:04] Cause the premise of that movie is

[02:13:06] Who never had a proper childhood

[02:13:08] And he's trying

[02:13:10] To get a big role

[02:13:12] And they think he didn't have a normal

[02:13:14] Life to play the character

[02:13:16] So he moves in with a family

[02:13:18] So it's like him

[02:13:20] With two young children and a mom and a dad

[02:13:22] Living in suburbia trying to learn how to be normal

[02:13:24] I think is the premise of that movie

[02:13:26] But the thing I remember

[02:13:28] When I auditioned

[02:13:30] Was the stakes of the movie were

[02:13:32] He's got a big audition

[02:13:34] To play the key supporting character

[02:13:36] In the new Martin Scorsese movie

[02:13:38] Starring Robert De Niro

[02:13:40] And De Niro and Scorsese were written into the script

[02:13:42] And I was like

[02:13:44] They're getting Scorsese and De Niro

[02:13:46] And they were like we're hopeful

[02:13:49] And then it came out it's Rob Reiner and Alec Baldwin

[02:13:51] And 03 Alec Baldwin

[02:13:53] Sure

[02:13:55] Yeah it's a new Rob Reiner movie

[02:13:57] You're right

[02:13:59] Number 5 at the box office

[02:14:01] Just to wrap this up

[02:14:03] It is a movie you already referenced

[02:14:05] It's the biggest hit of the summer

[02:14:07] Pirates of the Caribbean

[02:14:09] Curse of the Black Pearl

[02:14:11] Biggest movie of the summer

[02:14:13] I was funny not to be pedantic about it

[02:14:15] But I think that was

[02:14:18] The grossing live action picture perhaps

[02:14:20] Pirates of the Caribbean though was

[02:14:22] The surprise of the summer

[02:14:24] Culturally seismic

[02:14:26] We're all dressed in like Jack Sparrow

[02:14:28] And we're still playing the Pirates of the Caribbean score

[02:14:30] At the Oscars

[02:14:32] They played it after someone's win

[02:14:34] They played it at a weird time

[02:14:36] It was a very strange time

[02:14:38] They played it when Devane Joy Randolph was leaving the show

[02:14:40] It'd be so funny to think about

[02:14:42] With the fuck we don't have a score

[02:14:44] It's like their default

[02:14:46] It's rousing

[02:14:48] Skeletons are marching

[02:14:50] It's either that or I'm Just Ken

[02:14:52] Also at strange moments during the ceremony

[02:14:54] They played I'm Just Ken after

[02:14:56] The guy who gave the speech about Ukraine

[02:14:58] Yes

[02:15:00] But they probably, you're right

[02:15:02] They'll be playing I'm Just Ken for the next 20 years

[02:15:04] They'll be doing versions of I'm Just Ken at the Oscars

[02:15:06] For 20 years

[02:15:08] You know what I don't envy?

[02:15:10] The people who have been locked inside a conference room

[02:15:12] For 5 years trying to solve the idea

[02:15:15] Of making another Pirates of the Caribbean movie

[02:15:17] So is it him?

[02:15:19] Does it have to be not him?

[02:15:21] Is it him in a smaller part?

[02:15:23] They seem to refuse

[02:15:25] The notion of maybe

[02:15:27] Don't make another one

[02:15:29] That's definitely what they should do

[02:15:31] And they just keep banging their head against the wall

[02:15:33] And being like does it have to be all Jack or no Jack