Millions with Adam Kempenaar

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check God Dozen Podcasts!

[00:00:24] Okay, um, I'm not mad about it at all, but I am trying to remember what he said. Rob Banks! I heard the tone, Rob Banks, sure. I mean, I think that's, I'm gonna be, I told you I had to be honest with you. I demanded radical honesty.

[00:00:41] I don't think we're gonna redo it. No, we're not. But I don't think that's, you know, I don't think that's the best. But then again, it's not like a movie about scintillating dialogue, so I understand. Do you want to hear some alts? Sure.

[00:00:56] We're not retaking it, I'm just letting you see what could have been. Okay, but that is canon. What I just did is canon and these are just some alternate drafts. The podcast just makes everything worse! Now, accurate. Money, uh-huh, right. And accurate, right. This is the thing.

[00:01:11] Almost every one of these quotes, I'm just gonna be replacing the word money with podcast. Yeah, that's about it. I'm looking at the quotes and... I thought it was from God. Who else would have that kind of podcast? That doesn't make sense. That doesn't make sense.

[00:01:23] That doesn't track. No. I thought it was from podcast. Who else would have that kind of money? That's kind of funny. It's like a joke about the podcast industry. Well, sure. I thought it was from Spotify. Who else would have that kind of money? You'd have to like...

[00:01:38] That's what you'd have to do. What was the other one here? Uh, I need a we. I don't know how you change I need a we. I would argue that's the best line in the movie. Yeah. Um, you did fine. The tagline is, can anyone be truly good?

[00:01:55] That was the tagline of this movie. Well, but there's another tagline to this movie. And it's a tagline that our guest ripped into aggressively. And we will talk about this in a second. The other tagline on this poster, David, of course, is

[00:02:07] a new film from the imagination of Danny Boyle. Right. Okay. And what's the beef with that? Apart from... Well, what's the beef with that? I don't want to speak for you, Adam. I don't know how you feel about this today. But your defense...

[00:02:24] Your argument at the time was, why is Danny Boyle presenting himself as if he's Tim Burton? Well, that in retrospect or having re-watched the film, that feels appropriate, doesn't it? I think so. I think so too. Yeah. Because Tim Burton is all over this film. Yes.

[00:02:44] It feels very much among other types of films and filmmakers that he's throwing into this mix. It definitely feels a lot like Edward Scissorhands, but without any real commentary or satiric bite, which is fine. And I'm sure we'll get into that more.

[00:03:02] But yeah, Burton's all over this film, so I understand why they were trying to sell it that way. The irony is, if Tim Burton made this movie tomorrow, we would all be doing cartwheels. We would be so fucking ecstatic if this was the filmmaker he had become.

[00:03:17] If Tim Burton made this movie tomorrow, it would be nominated for the Academy Award for Best Picture. That's how excited people would just be. It might win. It might win. I mean, people might be like, why did you set it in the British... Britain left the EU?

[00:03:30] There might be some notes now if you made this film. Odd alternate past. Yeah. Right. But I think, yes. Yes. If a filmmaker who was sort of like a Burton-esque, like, oh God, he lost his touch with humanity, made this, there would be a lot of excitement. Yes.

[00:03:48] Right. And I think when people are depressed about who Tim Burton has become, it's because they hoped he would be able to evolve into something like... I don't know. If not like this, something else. Here's a crazy stat I didn't realize.

[00:04:02] Because, you know, this is this period we've talked about a lot where Danny Boyle's like trying on a bunch of different genres. This is his real experimentation period, trying to see what sort of... How we can use genre as a delivery system for different ideas.

[00:04:16] This is not only his only children's film. This is his only movie that is not rated R. Yes. Is that surprising really? He doesn't have a PG-13. No, he does not. I think the only... But here's the thing. What could that possibly... Yesterday, I guess. Slumdog. Slumdog.

[00:04:39] But Slumdog has lots of violence in it. Like it's... Wait, is yesterday PG-13? It's kind of a gangster movie. Is this stat I saw pre-yesterday? Yeah, this stat must be pre-yesterday. Because there's no way yesterday was rated R, right? Yesterday is rated PG-13. Yeah. I mean, yes. Okay.

[00:04:54] So he finally... Yesterday should have been rated X. But... Yeah, yesterday should have been rated... I'd like to see that one. Wear a hazmat suit. Yes. Radioactive. This thing's a bomb. It's radioactive. Listen, this is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David.

[00:05:11] It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce.

[00:05:22] Baby, this is a mini-series, as you may have picked up on, about the films of Danny Boyle. We're calling it Trainspodcasting. Today we are talking about... Millions. Millions! His 2004, 2005, depending on which country you were in, it was released in different years, children's fable. Yes. Yes, it is.

[00:05:46] But it's also like a, you know, sort of quasi-remake of Shallow Grave with kids. That's also what it is. Yes, it is. Kids and saints. He loves his big bag of money. He loves a bag of money. It's very Hitchcockian of him.

[00:06:01] He just, you know, what's going to get plot moving? Scary guys who show up after the bag of money is dropped. Trainspodding's got the whole last act about like the sort of sports bag, the gym bag full of money. He loves that. Sure does.

[00:06:16] The plunk, drop in a big old stack of bills. So Millions is a PG, huh? In America. It's a 12 in England. Interesting. Which I think is appropriate because this movie is, you know, it's a little frightening. It's a little intense.

[00:06:34] I think if I was like six or seven, I would have been a little spooked by this movie. Yeah. No, he gives it some genuine menace. Now, our guest today, returning to the show, second appearance, first time solo, co-host of the Filmspotting podcast,

[00:06:52] which was previously the Cinecast when it launched in 2005. David, sometimes people will say you guys are lucky you got in on podcasting early. When we started our show 10 years later. Yeah. A full decade later.

[00:07:10] You launched when like listening to a podcast was that you had to listen to it on your iPod. That's right. Exclusively. It was purely a podcast. Which I did. Yeah. And you weren't even able to go to iTunes yet. Then launch podcasting.

[00:07:26] You had to go to these different podcasting websites to download shows and then sync them up with your iPad. Wow. You had to plug in an RSS. Yeah. Right. And you had to make sure you were downloading episodes specifically onto the pod before you left your home.

[00:07:44] That's right. Yeah. Right. You had to do your morning download. Right. Yeah. And it turns out we in fact launched around the same time this movie came out because episode two. Episode two. Yeah. The second episode, the second movie we ever discussed on the show was Millions.

[00:08:05] Of what was the Cinecast. Yes. Now film spotting Adam Kemp and are returning to the show. So Adam, I listened to episode two which I had never heard before. I think I started listening to the show around 2010 or 2011.

[00:08:19] And recently you guys just offered up your entire archive for the first time. You have a supporting cast membership with them that is very much worth your money if you're a film spotting fan because it's 15 years worth of episodes.

[00:08:38] But I had not listened to episode two before which runs a brisk 29 minutes in total. That's right. Which back then that people were like, oh, these episodes are so bloated. The most self-indulgent. Yeah, that was kind of part of it. On episode one we talked about Be Cool.

[00:08:53] Yes. And Sam, my co-host now producer of film spotting, we said at the time the show is only going to be 20 or 25 minutes. And that's what it's going to be every week. 20 or 25 minutes in and out people are just going to get their movie talk fix or whatever.

[00:09:07] And that first episode ended up being like 45 minutes somehow. And we were actually apologetic about it which is ironic here talking with you gentlemen as well. Oh yes. Looking back on that.

[00:09:18] And so I think we deliberately tried to pick up the pace a little bit with episode two. And so under 30 minutes we got Sam's story about meeting Alan Ball and lying to him.

[00:09:29] We reviewed millions and we did the top five movies we're most embarrassed to admit we've never seen. Any one of those things now would take at least 30 to 60 minutes on our show. In and of itself. I can't believe it. In and of itself.

[00:09:42] No, you were done with your millions review before the 10 minute mark of the episode. That's right. And then you start your top five with nine minutes left. And that includes having to do like theme song intro outro on either side of those things.

[00:09:57] The first time I met you, Adam, because you and Josh whenever you're traveling will sometimes do film spotting meetups to pick a bar and try to create a centralized place for listeners to hang out.

[00:10:11] And JD Amato, friend of the podcast, constant guest, was the one who turned me on to film spotting because he's a Chicago guy. I think he first listened to it on the radio. I think so. Yeah. And so we went to the meetup.

[00:10:25] I mean, this was this was right when we had started our show. So this was seven. 16 or 17 early. Yeah. Seven years ago.

[00:10:33] And you were you were telling JD and I that internally you guys had been debating whether to split the weekly movie review and the theme top five list into two separate shows because you were worried that the show was getting too long per episode. Yeah.

[00:10:52] And in fact, maybe one episode could not sustain both segments. And it used to all happen in 29 minutes. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's crazy.

[00:11:00] And actually talking to you and then starting to listen to your show, even though we don't go as long as you usually it made me realize that. Don't rub it in. No, it's a good thing.

[00:11:10] If if your audience likes what you're doing and you're giving them, I hate to say it, decent content, then they they're not going to they're not going to start getting bored. They're not going to tune out just because all of a sudden they've hit a certain mark.

[00:11:23] If they like the show, if they like the hosts, they'll listen. At least that's what seems to be happening. Sure, but they're also disgusting pigs. Yeah, revolting, revolting creatures. Yeah, they should all shut up. And this episode is going to be 25 minutes long.

[00:11:37] And that's that's the pattern going forward. We'll do commentaries Griff on Patreon. Yeah, but we'll just we'll just hit stop at 25 minutes. We'll be like, all right, that's all you get. You know, whatever. You're not even saying 4x speed.

[00:11:50] You're saying just you only get the first 30 minutes of a movie. It would be funny if we watched movies death. Yeah, and tried to talk that fast. We would hit like the 15 minute mark.

[00:12:00] If you listen to them as early some of those early episodes, we would get about 15 minutes into a review. And I would say something like, well, we've got more to say, but we should probably cut it off here.

[00:12:09] It was almost as if I had this internal clock saying, well, no one's going to listen to this for more than 15 minutes. So you got to just shut up and move on. And, well, we've we've all changed with the times.

[00:12:19] Adam, Ben just started salivating at the at the notion of one of us saying that. Oh my God. Yeah, truly. That would be a blessing. Can I ask a question about the coming up with the name?

[00:12:32] Because you were at a time where you probably could have picked the movie podcast like as your name. I mean, like as far as real estate goes, you had your you had your picking. You had your pick. Yes.

[00:12:47] Maybe even been the podcast you could have just called the podcast. I like it. I like it. I don't remember where Cinecast came from. If you go back and look all those early shows, they felt like that they had to have podcast in it somewhere. Right. Yeah.

[00:13:03] So cast was very common. And we had Cinecast in about maybe 60 or 70 episodes in. So into that first year of Cinecast, we got a cease and desist letter from a company called Cinecast. Was it a podcast company? No, they weren't. They weren't.

[00:13:22] But they were in they made a product that was related to theatrical distribution somehow. I think they were the company that made the technology that did the ad shows before movies. Oh, wow. And I remember, fortunately, I went to college. One of my roommates became a lawyer.

[00:13:41] So I had someone I could get advice from. And at the time, he was like, we could probably fight this because we're not sure there's reasonably any confusion here. Or we could argue that there's not going to be any confusion between your two ventures.

[00:13:55] But then he said something really smart. And I guess this will be advice to any young podcasters or aspiring podcasters out there. He said, but you know what? You should take this opportunity to come up with a new name anyway that nobody else has used.

[00:14:07] That is unique to you and that you guys can trademark. To Sam and I, it was like, we're going to have to give up Cinecast, but that's who we are. It's the greatest name ever. It's the greatest movie podcast name ever. We're never changing it.

[00:14:21] But we took that to heart and we embarked on a search, a lot of conversations about what our new show title would be. And I'll just, I'll conclude by telling you that we went so far, speaking of really generic bad names,

[00:14:33] we went so far as to announce at one point that the new name of Cinecast was going to be The Cinema Show. But that's what Ben is saying. It's clear. You know what it's about. Right. Yeah.

[00:14:45] I know. But we got so much pushback from our audience about how terrible it was that we said, okay, we take it back. Everything's back on the table. And then a listener, a listener sent in film spotting a student.

[00:14:57] I think he was at Florida State and he said, what about film spotting? And we went, yeah, Danny Boyle's cool. We like train spotting. It wasn't an homage to him explicitly. That wasn't the point of it, but it worked. And we said, okay, we'll be film spotting.

[00:15:13] Yeah, I never, I didn't even put that together. Of course, it's sort of a train spotting reference. It definitely is. Boyle, when I interviewed him the first time, made a joke about it when he heard the name of our show.

[00:15:23] Like, don't you owe me something? Don't you owe me some cash? No. And you said, no, I owe Irvin Welsh something. Danny, you didn't come up with that name. It's just, I just like the idea of being there like that early.

[00:15:35] Like Ben says, you get to be called film potty. There's like Off Menu, my favorite new podcast. Do you know Off Menu? No, I don't think so. British comedians talking to other British comedians about their favorite food.

[00:15:47] One point, Bob Mortimer, his episode, he says like, well, you know, I'm pre-yogurt. Like there wasn't yogurt when I was a kid like that. I was I was alive when that got introduced. Like they were like, check this out. This new product yogurt. I think about that.

[00:16:03] That's what you guys were. You guys were like you're pretty good. So early in podcasting. Yeah, the film spotting connection. The title connection was one thing.

[00:16:11] And then I remember that millions had some important place in the lore of film spotting in the in the development, in the birth. But this is we've been trying to do. We still have failed to do the in-person episode. This is over Zoom.

[00:16:27] But you were supposed to you guys were supposed to come to New York to do your anniversary show in 2020. We had an episode scheduled on the books. Then we, of course, did Romancing the Stone with you and Josh Larson over Zoom during Deepest Darkest pandemic.

[00:16:44] And then you finally got to do your New York show about a month ago. But both your schedules end up being too wild and the turnaround time too quick.

[00:16:55] So we will have Josh on at a second time because four people, five people on a Zoom tends to make brains explode. But we definitely want to have you on for this, especially because I feel like you have not having heard the millions episode until today.

[00:17:11] But I feel like I heard it invoked so many times as like what you were talking about, the episode where you put the pressure on yourselves. Like, we got to keep this thing tight. We got to limit our thoughts as much as possible.

[00:17:23] And you and Sam Van Hogger, who was your co-host at the time, still producer of the show, were like fairly dismissive of the movie. We were. But in a pretty quick rushed way, like a kind of hand wave kind of way.

[00:17:36] And I feel like you'll talk about this as like we maybe never gave millions a full shake. I don't know where you stand on it today, but it was impossible listening to the episode to imagine you not digging into this movie more deeply.

[00:17:50] That was that was my takeaway listening to that review as well. I felt like I had to go back and hear what my thoughts were then.

[00:17:58] I rewatched the movie first, of course, so I could have completely new fresh thoughts and then I could see how they lined up and I could try to reconcile those a little bit.

[00:18:07] And there's no doubt if we talked about this movie today, look, 18 years, almost 18 years since that review. There's a reason why I had very mixed feelings about putting the entire archive online and making it available. People can go back and listen to those shows.

[00:18:23] I haven't listened to that show since I recorded it and edited it in March 2005. And I don't particularly want to go back and listen to even the shows I did last week or a month ago or a year ago, but especially those early shows.

[00:18:39] That was almost 18 years ago, and I'd like to think I've become a better talker about movies and a better podcaster. I'd also like to think I've become a better watcher of movies in that time and over the course of doing a thousand episodes or so.

[00:18:55] Also, though, you're seeing the movie for the second time.

[00:18:58] And even if you haven't seen it in 18 years, you're obviously able to pay more specific attention to choices that are being made because you're not caught up in or maybe distracted by the narrative and what is or isn't making sense.

[00:19:10] And there are elements of this movie I think we'll probably dive into that maybe don't always make total sense or that you're questioning.

[00:19:18] So I watched it the second time, had my new reaction to the film, and then I went back and listened to that 10-minute profound conversation on Cinecast number two. And the long and the short of it is we were a little bit too hard on the movie.

[00:19:36] I think the allegation of cynicism on Danny Boyle's part, which is an allegation we made at the time, was probably going too far. I think his heart is absolutely in the right place with this film.

[00:19:49] But the bottom line is I ended up having the exact same overall experience, which is I was mostly enjoying the film and I think the last 20 minutes or so are catastrophically bad. Interesting. I had a real rollercoaster experience watching this.

[00:20:09] I saw this, I took my sister to see this, and she would have been seven at the time when this came out. So she was even younger than the two characters.

[00:20:21] But like, you know, I was in high school taking my much younger sister to see this movie, seeing it with her. I think it was kind of exciting any time there was sort of like an elevated kids movie like this, a tourist kids movie.

[00:20:37] Because I would take my sister to see anything that was appropriate for her to see. I like going to see movies. It was a bonding thing for two of us. But anytime there was like, oh, there's a kids movie playing at the sunshine, I can take you to.

[00:20:49] That felt kind of cool. And it was like exciting that he was doing this. You know, David, you and I talk so much about like liking our auteurs to like do one of each kind of movie. You have to make a space movie at some point.

[00:21:06] You have to make a period epic. You have to make this. You have to make that. The kids movie, I think, is a thing that a lot of series filmmakers feel above doing.

[00:21:14] And those who figure out how to do it well and in their style, it's kind of a really special thing. And I remember being really excited for this and then walking out and feeling a little deflated without thinking it was bad.

[00:21:27] And then in like the 18 years since, I mostly just think back on that as like being like, oh, that movie is fine. But it's kind of like, you know, a little bit of a deflated balloon. It's like charming enough. It's sweet. It didn't really work. And then?

[00:21:44] And then like every 10 minutes watching this, I would oscillate between being like, this thing's great and feeling kind of exhausted by it. That's fair. Well, that's the Danny Boyle experience a little bit. Being super charmed or feeling like sugar poisoning or whatever.

[00:22:00] And I think I evened out on like maybe respecting it a little more than I did at the time. Mm-hmm. It's got some like I mean, the good elements of this movie, I think, are incredibly good.

[00:22:11] And I think the biggest thing watching it present day is I have more appreciation for it just because it feels kind of unfathomable for someone to make this today. Yeah, yeah. Or certainly make it with as many bold choices, not surprisingly, that Boyle makes.

[00:22:28] I mean, this movie could be made by any number of filmmakers. You could take the exact same storyline. Chris Columbus could make this movie. And it would be the most saccharine, pedestrian, but probably uplifting movie that would send people out of the theater feeling great.

[00:22:43] You know, that anyone's ever seen. It could be that experience. And it's not. And it's on the whole maybe a little bit unsatisfying. But the highs, I think you're right. Some of the highs really are high. They're really good.

[00:22:54] And I didn't fully appreciate them back in 2005 the way I did watching it a little closer now. And there's another element that I got just completely wrong. I can listen back to and say, well, that's the experience I had in 05.

[00:23:06] But I think I was just genuinely wrong about it, which is I thought that the way Boyle depicted that neighborhood estate, it was a little bit snarky and a little bit cynical itself. As in, you know, it's so gorgeously rendered and everything's so perfect.

[00:23:26] But also he he likes to kind of show you the power lines behind everything, just muddying up the view a little bit. And it's so about conformity.

[00:23:34] It felt that I thought he was applying some commentary to that and kind of making us think that he's he's having a bit of a laugh at at this type of living people who aspire to live in these types of places.

[00:23:51] I watched that again now and I realize I think I was applying my own sense of, oh, it's a simulacrum of the perfect life. Boyle doesn't portray it that way at all.

[00:24:00] I think he I think he's genuine about this being this step up from where they were, that we are all aspirational, I suppose, in that way. We want a, quote unquote, better life.

[00:24:14] And I don't think he's I don't think he's dogging or he's trying to critique in any way the people who live in that environment. I was just wrong about that. David, have you seen this when it came out?

[00:24:25] So I did not see this came out when I was in college in England. And I think I was I was like disdainful of the very idea of it in this kind of like, what is Danny Boyle making a kid's movie?

[00:24:41] And then the reviews were tepid or whatever they were right when the reviews are sort of shrugged like and so I avoided it in cinemas. But then my brother, who is younger than me, saw it in theaters and was like millions. Millions is good.

[00:25:01] You know, like check out millions. My brother has always stand this movie. And I did and I liked it. But I think I still was a bit too much of a cynical college student. He guy to really lock into this movie unabashedly, especially because it was Danny Boyle.

[00:25:22] I was still like, like this sort of I had the hangover of being like an Empire magazine reader. And I was just like, why isn't he making a cool movie? Like, you know, sure, sure. You know, you, you know, okay, fine.

[00:25:33] You prove some sort of a point here. Like you can make a kid's movie and still have it be interesting, right?

[00:25:39] Like, you know, I think I was projecting on this movie to it is funny how a movie about a nice boy who gets money and wants to help people. We're all just kind of like, what's what's this movie's game? You know, what is it? How dare you?

[00:25:53] What's all this sincerity? I don't understand. And now I rewatch it. I'm just like, yeah, I think this is I think it's a I think it's a very good movie. This kid stinks. Ben, he stinks. You don't like him? He's not doing the right thing. Come on morality.

[00:26:14] What would the right thing? Okay, Ben, what would you do? You think he should just like he should blank check it up. He should buy like 10 TVs. Mr. Macintosh. So Ben's the brother. Ben's the brother. Absolutely. I'm buying an apartment. 100% apartment. You're really swinging there.

[00:26:34] That's what he goes and does in the movie. One point he goes in these, you know, checking out what he can do with his money. Yeah, absolutely. No, listen, this is like one of those classic things where I watch this and I'm like, I

[00:26:45] would have done everything different. It all would have worked out. I would have made actually more money. I would have invested and been set for life if that had happened to me. Oh, you would have invested. Well, sure, sure, sure, sure. In 2005, too.

[00:26:59] No, no trouble on the horizon there economically. Ben, I have a hard time believing you would have been responsible with the money. I believe you would have had a good time. Yeah, you probably would have seen me wheeling like a wheelbarrow full of cigarette packs.

[00:27:16] You would have been like the brother hired out your friends to be Secret Service agents. Yeah, you definitely would have. Yes, you would have hired some guys. I would have had a golden slingshot.

[00:27:31] No, it just is upsetting to watch this because I understand he's saying like, this is not right, but it's, I don't know. Maybe it's just the rebel in me, but I'm like, this is truly like money that you should be taking. You should not be giving it away.

[00:27:51] It would have gotten burned. Like I'm totally with the dad. I don't know. What are your guys thoughts? Look, because we're doing Danny Boyle, we've talked about this scenario multiple times now.

[00:28:03] And I just I think if I found a bag of money, it would be a no for me. It would be, you know, hello. I found a bag of money. Can someone come collect it for me? I just I think I would immediately be too stressed out.

[00:28:16] I don't know. I always land on that side, David. Every time we've talked about a big bag of money moving like simple plan stresses me out so much. This is the one movie where I'm like, maybe keep it. Maybe keep it. I don't know. Fell off a train.

[00:28:32] It fell falling off. You're right. That is that does feel like provenance more than oh, there's like a dead body next to this. And that's the key. That's alarming. Yeah, right. The government ever done for you. Okay. Do you know what I'm saying? This isn't a government thing.

[00:28:49] It's more. I'm worried someone wants this and that person is unscrupulous like that would always be my fear. That is one way though. The choice is very different from those other scenarios, right? Where this boy is a boy.

[00:29:03] He's genuinely naive and innocent and he has no sense that there's any nefariousness attached to this money. And because of his imagination and these flights of fancy and the people he randomly sees appear, he thinks God really did send him. Genuinely believe a bunch of money.

[00:29:20] So for at least a good chunk of the movie, he's not making a choice. He doesn't have to think in those terms, right? Right. Yeah, no, but it is true. Most the other like a big bag of money movies.

[00:29:31] The setup is always you find it next to a dead person, right? Like no country and shallow grave. Simple plan. There's a body and a bag. And the question is, do you take it or not?

[00:29:44] And it's like, you know, pretty bad omen that someone died trying to get away with this money. Right? Doesn't it doesn't pretend well for you. But this this kid's in a cardboard box. He's having a grand old time.

[00:29:59] Big bag of money flies out of the sky, lands on his head, bunks him. If anything, he's owed that money for the injury. He got bunked in the noggin. True. I guess you could call British Rail and be like, hi, a bag hit me in the head.

[00:30:15] His beautiful. Wouldn't say bag of money. He would just beautiful for crushed. Those things don't just grow on trees. He has to build a new one. He has to buy new masking tape that takes money money that is in a bag that hit him on the head.

[00:30:30] Well, you see, maybe you do some creative accounting here. We are like, I itemized everything in the four, you know, expenses about 200 grand. So I'll just keep this. It's called a wash. It was about six different boxes taped together.

[00:30:42] I don't know if you saw the dimensions on that thing. I remember thinking this movie was more explicitly about like the changeover of currencies, right? That there would be some and obviously that is that is the idea is that they have to spend it fast.

[00:31:00] Yeah, I think you'd be forgotten that element to me too. Oh really? Oh yeah. Well, it was such a big deal when this movie came out because that was such a you know, topic of constant fucking unending debate in Britain when I lived there.

[00:31:14] Will we ever change the euro? Not my country. None of these euro dollar, you know, I don't want to touch that kind of money. The Queen must be on my money. Baba. But it really is just boil or and I mean, it's a new screenwriter but boil

[00:31:29] returning to like his favorite topic of this sort of, you know, you're presented with a moral slash immoral choice. What do you do? And for the first time he's putting it in the hands of like a cherubic little boy

[00:31:43] with freckles on his cheeks who lost his mother and wants to do wants to make people happy. And I think that's nice Ben. This kid's exhausting with this all the Saint business been you're related to a Saint. That's true. I forgot. I do love the dad energy.

[00:32:03] You're bringing to this. You're like I I'm owed this. I'm taking it. This is like this is the kind of thing in life that never happens and you should you should with open arms accept it and and say thank you and spend that damn money.

[00:32:20] It is such a funny Danny Boyle balance where you're like the fact that it truly falls out of the sky. You're like there is the element that feels like magical in this movie and then

[00:32:30] it's cut with a villain character who feels like he could be out of train spotting who is not pitched to a children's film at all an aspect that I kind of admire that he's genuinely scary and he's so scary that it almost feels like

[00:32:45] he might be a hallucination as well. There was a part of the movie where I started tracking has anyone else actually seen this guy. I had forgotten that the other brother sees him in the first meeting because

[00:32:56] basically every other time this guy corners the main kid it's in isolation. Yeah he's at the school he's in the hallway nobody notices him right right the attic even later. Honestly the first time I watched it and even rewatching it a little bit there

[00:33:09] was a part of me that thought there's no way we're supposed to believe he was really in the attic. This is some kind of vision that he's having but no he's he's really in the

[00:33:19] attic and even at Selfridge's he just kind of shows up and then disappears just quickly but it does feel like is this guy just as tangible as the Saints are. That's how he appears to him the first time right.

[00:33:31] He comes over that he appears the same way all the other saints do and you can tell that he is Damien's confused that first time whether or not he's really there. Right now mind you the older brother also sees getting ahead in the plot their

[00:33:46] mother when she reappears. So like this movie does put forward that these two things might be equally real. Sure yeah I'm not I yeah I don't I mean I like the sort of childlike you know blurry line between imagination and reality thing.

[00:34:05] I think that's fun isn't it funny though how he how he does portray the villain as scary certainly scarier than the home alone bad guys. You know I was thinking about them too while I was watching this but he doesn't

[00:34:22] ever cross that threshold where he really seems evil or he seems like there's imminent danger facing. Sure he doesn't he doesn't threaten them in a way that this this guy in real life. I'll say really would even the whole thing about the money at the end it's

[00:34:40] sort of like I'm going to call you on the phone and then you're going to deliver the money to my door. If this guy is really the bad ass he kind of carries himself as he he just come into the house and grab the money right.

[00:34:52] He's not worried about the dad or these other people but they don't cross that line. Yeah that's interesting. I think it's because they didn't want to. My sense of it is they wanted him to be scarier than the home alone bad guys

[00:35:05] Boyle needed some authenticity if you will that way he wanted to add that element but he also didn't want it to cross over into shallow grave or rated our territory. He wanted kids to steal feel OK. That's the thing.

[00:35:18] If you project the sense that this guy murdering the kid is on the table the movie becomes unwatchable. It does. If you ever get the vibe that that guy has it in him which I don't think you do feel that way.

[00:35:32] I think you feel like this is a dangerous guy who is doing everything he can to intimidate this child but that is maybe a line he wouldn't cross in actual. He's not like a professional criminal right because they're the storyline of

[00:35:45] how this robbery went down like these are just regular like regular blue collar guys that decide to steal this money. Yeah it's the thing I like about this movie too is that when you get the

[00:35:59] explanation of where the money came from it does feel like that could be its own heist movie totally. It feels like a British countryside Logan Lucky or something question about home alone about the wet and or sticky bandits.

[00:36:13] I know they rebrand they discuss killing him right like I feel like they do have more like outward malevolence even though they are also like you know cartoon animals that get bonked in the head right like I feel like there's one

[00:36:28] point at which they discuss like shooting him is that maybe I'm making that up maybe they never get that intense. No no no I think that's the weird balance if if the guys act like cartoon

[00:36:39] characters then they're allowed to say I'm going to kill that kid because it doesn't feel real whereas if you hire the guy in this movie and tell him to give a real performance then he cannot imply that he would kill the kid like the

[00:36:52] wet bandits want to kill Kevin McAllister in the same way that like Wile E. Coyote wants to catch the Roadrunner right but yeah he is he's scary in that kid way adults are scary you know yeah and yeah especially adults you don't

[00:37:08] know who are asking you kind of a question you know yeah and like you know he works his name he's the poor man right like that's the credit he gets yeah it's kind of a cool credit actually I Christopher Fulford is the

[00:37:23] name of the actor David you were sort of starting to get into this but a day an entirely fictional thing correct it a fictional thing that but nothing even close to this ever happened well England never entered the year I never

[00:37:40] came close but but obviously when I was a kid most of Europe did enter the euro and they did have you know a day like this I mean it would be a thing where it was a very long extended window of two currencies though I don't

[00:37:55] think it would ever be as drastic as this movie makes it seem sure where it's like spend them if you got a man like that's it you know like it was always you know I think I even went to France or wherever in you would you know you

[00:38:07] could pay in both Franks and euros for a while you know it's like but I guess there always is there is always going to be a day where that's that like where it's like okay you know the end like we were we're switching to one I know the

[00:38:21] pushback on the euro was happening like early you know pretty much as soon as the idea was presented it was pushed back at the time this movie was written did they think this was going to happen or did this almost feel like a possible

[00:38:35] thing to project that no because this movie is written in the mid 2000s during the Blair government and the Blair government was ostensibly pro-euro was ostensibly like they kind of did this you know to thing two-way thing of like

[00:38:52] we'd you know we're supportive of entering the euro someday but we would need many economic things to change for that to happen and you know it was kind of a kick the can thing because it was always pretty obvious the Britain British

[00:39:05] people there was never going to probably majority support for it there you know people can read about the economics of the euro people you know Black Wednesday people never got over Black Wednesday in the 90s and I think that was you know

[00:39:18] what scared and then after the 2008 recession that that the that there was never any any political support for entering the euro so this is before then so it's a little there's probably like a little bit of a like fantasy of maybe

[00:39:32] someday you know right I feel like I saw somewhere though the Boyle said it was almost like if we don't make this movie fast enough then this will all be it'll look also silly because there was this idea that it was imminent somehow or that

[00:39:47] the euro was going to take over and even though there would be tons of pushback that that that would just happen at some point I thought I read that comment from Boyle somewhere you know I'm sure I'll dig into the dossier I'm you know I'm

[00:40:03] sure there were people who figured it was inevitable right because of because the mainland had done it and in many ways look I mean I like my politics on this are sort of agnostic at the time I was pro euro because it just seemed good and

[00:40:20] now I you know I just know that's sort of like not a thing anymore but also like I remember being a kid and like going to Italy and you know getting a you know one ten thousand you know lira no you're like oh what's this like I don't

[00:40:34] know it's like a dollar and you'd be like what like and like once the euro came about the euro is this very boring currency like the money is very boring looking there's something about it that feels a little fake but like obviously

[00:40:47] it made life so much easier to visit Europe and use the euro I don't know I'll just throw in that one thing I did think about this time that I certainly didn't think about in 05 is it obviously the whole euro aspect of this is is the thing

[00:41:03] that drives the plot forward and the money that's why it is fundamentally there but it also does support Damien as a character and his mindset when we meet him right this idea I believe that he probably has been obsessed with Saints for some

[00:41:21] time before we meet him at the beginning of the film I don't think he's already started to see Saints and so this combination this confluence of things happening in his life his mother has just died how world changing is that now

[00:41:36] we're moving to an entirely new neighborhood leaving everything behind that I knew oh and on top of it money is no longer money you know everything about the world you inhabit it could not have changed more in kind of a blink

[00:41:51] of an eye for this kid so it it it isn't just this whimsical thing that it is that oh he sees Francis of Assisi no he's he's manifesting his his grief he's dealing with trauma and and all of the things that are changing all the

[00:42:07] uncertainty and chaos around him yeah and I you know the fact that it's three years between him and his brother the difference between nine and twelve in this movie is huge we're not just how pragmatic the brother is and sort of you

[00:42:24] know trying to approach the idea of this money like an adult what's the responsible thing to do what's the profitable thing to do but even just sort of like keeping his catalog of nipples on his computer you know needing

[00:42:37] to like explain how the world works in black and white terms at all times you know even just the like do not understand the implications of this woman being invited over to the house and dad laughing at her and all this sort of

[00:42:52] stuff it's like the lead boy is sort of at the last age where he would still process all of these things in that way what you're saying Adam right where he would look at all these things and come to a magical conclusion you know where

[00:43:08] he would still need to use Saints and process his emotions maybe in such a vivid way there's also just the childish the sympathetic thing of like hearing these stories about Saints and thinking them as sort of superheroes because

[00:43:24] those stories are so lurid and supernatural like you know and so like that he's talking to like Sink and Saga where like when you read that story of what happened to that guy you're like Jesus Christ is horrible but you know

[00:43:39] to him he can sort of filter it into this kind of you know super heroic you know vaguely exciting vaguely frightening kind of idea because also if you're a kid people around you and if you're a kid who grows up in the church

[00:43:56] people around you are saying like Spider-Man's not real put down that comic by the way this guy is real sure right you know they're pointing at like biblical stories they're telling you tales of Saints that all have these

[00:44:10] magical elements in them you know equally kind of inspiring and terrifying elements and they're like no no but this actually happened yes and I think it like English people get spooked by religion I don't mean to paint my other

[00:44:30] home country with a broad brush but I do think that's true obviously this boy is Catholic these are count you know the hence all the Saints and all the you know gore it's such a gory religion and I you know I say that with respect and

[00:44:43] fear of that religion but I do think that must have made some viewers in Britain kind of uncomfortable with like we don't give in for all that like you know like the sort of super super Saint II stuff like but because it's a kid you

[00:44:57] can you can forgive it in a way like his kind of simplicity about it and his way of rendering everything sort of sweetly or maybe your bed and you think like this kids a little twerp and you wish the train and like wiped him off the map

[00:45:10] I don't know like maybe not I love this little kid I'm so I throw this little kid I'm so yeah I'll tell you about kid actors often I think it's a pretty phenomenal performance me Adam in your episode you are saying you were sort of

[00:45:24] complaining about the kid being like so perfectly precocious but I think it's one of the most successful elements of this movie that this kid is so on self aware in his performance he feels so unstudied he feels so real and earnest you

[00:45:39] genuinely believe that he believes everything he's saying that I think anything about this kid that could feel contrite on paper he sells so thoroughly it makes it feel very natural and honest and he's so funny just his his way of

[00:45:56] being is funny yes he is I think it is hard to play naive and innocent or it's very easy to make naive and innocent be kind of silly and dumb and boring and

[00:46:09] this kid isn't I don't I didn't feel that way I am with you Griffin and that I constantly felt the authenticity of those moments that needed to be authentic and that he didn't part of it is I don't think he overplays anything

[00:46:24] no there's a lot of emotion underscoring everything that's happening and as I just said there's real grief and real trauma behind it he he doesn't play any of that in the way that I don't think you should as an actor it's it's there

[00:46:39] if you if you do the lines if you bring to it that authenticity and honesty the screenplay and everything else around it will do the work for the audience we don't need the actor to lean into that and he doesn't get that haven't been

[00:46:53] said I don't think it's like a coolish of effect thing which can oftentimes happen with kids where you're sort of treating them like trained animals yeah he's not a blank slate no I you feel the thoughts going on behind his eyes but

[00:47:05] he's not playing any of that as you said yes David let's crack open the dossier because I want to find out how he found this fucking kid right well that's true but also of course it begins with Frank Cottrell voice the writer of this film

[00:47:19] who had done lots of sort of British soap stuff but I feel like is probably best known for his many many collaborations with Michael Winterbottom and this is like this is kind of coming off of them working together multiple

[00:47:35] times they did Welcome to Sarajevo they did The Claim which is a crazy movie if anyone's have you seen The Claim Adam I had a sort of a forgotten movie it's like it takes the mayor of Casterbridge the Thomas Hardy novel but like puts

[00:47:50] it in immigrant California gold mining country it's with Wes Bentley and Sarah Polly and Peter Mullen and it's like one of those movies where you're like God how do you get the money for this like it's sort of like big and it was a total

[00:48:04] flop yeah but then they did 24-hour party people which is a great film maybe Michael Winterbottom's best movie about the Manchester scene in the early 90s with Steve Coogan and then they did Code 46 which is like a weird sci-fi movie

[00:48:19] with Tim Robbins and Samantha Morton I was seeing all of these because I was very in on Winterbottom and like these are just like cool British you know art movies in the in the early 2000s Tristram Shandy to write didn't he write

[00:48:35] Tristram Shandy yes I think that's the last movie he did with Winterbottom and he also did other weird stuff like Hillary and Jackie and Revengers tragedy which was like this insane comeback attempt by Alex Cox the yes you know

[00:48:49] repo man guy with Eddie Izzard and you know it's a really interesting movie anyway he was the thing about him is like he also does not scream I have a whimsical children's film in me you know neither of them do he's not finding

[00:49:06] some guy who's like all right here I am a British children's laureate you know maybe I'll give you something they both clearly wanted to do something different yeah I mean but you talk about like the cynicism you approach this movie with

[00:49:20] David is like why is fucking Danny Boyle making a kids movie the fact that Danny Boyle's movie before this is 28 days later like his gnarliest movie his like grimeyest you know sort of lo-fi film and that I know there's Code 46 before it

[00:49:37] as well but like Frank Cattrall voice is coming off a 24 hour party people like you have these two guys who basically in like 2002 2003 made these movies that like crossed over that were really exciting and full of fucking like piss

[00:49:53] and vinegar and then now they're like we're going to take you to the countryside where a young boy who talks to Saints questions how he can do good in the world right absolutely I don't know Frank culture boys basically says no

[00:50:06] one wanted to make this movie until Danny Boyle got interested and and picked up the script and I don't know like he probably was attracted to the script because of the writer less because of the you know theming or

[00:50:24] whatever but he loved the idea of his the way he puts it is it's the most shocking thing I could have done his favorite filmmakers Nicholas Rogue he talks about Nicholas Rogue all the time and he loves the Nicholas Rogue made

[00:50:37] the witches like you know it's like whoa he made a kids movie and like whoa this is what that was like this is his version of a kids movie so I think he was just intrigued by the the sheer perversity of him doing a children's

[00:50:53] movie at that point in his career and also as we've mentioned before Danny Boyle has a religious Irish Catholic mother I think he loves that sort of element of the story and he wants to tell it sincerely we've talked about how

[00:51:10] he sort of grew up a strict Catholic boy and wanted to be a priest the classic origin story of many a filmmaker so they they like the idea of the like theatricality and drama of Catholicism and these Gothic tales about Saints and

[00:51:24] how violent they are and they probably both felt that way when they were kids they were probably both into those kinds of stories and so it resonated for him this is also this movie is one of those cases that I rarely happens now but

[00:51:38] weirdly happened like a lot in the 70s where he writes the script they make this film he adapts his own script into a novel the novel is published before the movie comes out but is derived from the screenplay knowing the movie was

[00:51:56] being made and then the book becomes pretty popular and wins awards so this is like a movie that you kind of would believe is based on some pre-existing book and I'm sure there are a lot of people who have the false memory of why

[00:52:11] remember reading that book before I saw the movie so it was based off a book but it was actually sort of like the love story thing it was almost like a reverse marketing tactic for the movie and the book I feel like maybe was even better

[00:52:25] received in the movie was yeah the book won the Carnegie Medal which is like the biggest children's book award that exists yeah like when I was a kid in Britain if a book won the Carnegie Medal I read it like because it was sort of

[00:52:40] like you know okay that's like the best children's book it's just kind of wild that that's like ostensibly like a junior novelization of this movie that was just released before as its own thing yeah no it is funny it's kind of a

[00:52:55] 2001 a Space Odyssey situation it was sort of like I think the book actually came out in Britain before the film I don't know you know anyway it's it's very funny another thing that's interesting Boyle says his dad moved the

[00:53:09] family to a better neighborhood when he was a kid this is Boyle talking my dad was a working-class laborer he was a big man he worked all his life with his brawn he worked in a power station as a at a stove boiler and he was smart and

[00:53:21] he knew enough to make sure I didn't follow him so he you know moved them within Manchester to a better neighborhood so I think the way he puts it is this was kind of a gesture of love to her his mother and his father

[00:53:33] like he identifies with that too it's one of those things like I love Danny Boyle and Adam you've talked to him I've never interviewed him but it feels like you're like so why'd you make this movie he's like oh I don't know I

[00:53:45] thought it'd be fun to make a kid's movie and then like two minutes later he's like so my mother and father moved you know and you're like oh this clearly is some speaking to something very deep in you you know it's not just

[00:53:55] like a bit of a whim for you yeah he's a sincere fella which I like the original script was set in the 60s which is crazy oh that's wild and so instead they decided to modernize it to the weird point of fantasy right of like

[00:54:14] actually sending it in a sort of near future and he was very interested in the sort of lower middle class housing estate milieu which was something he just thinks was not being like represented in British film at all at the

[00:54:31] time like that that you know that setting yeah so is that is the notion that if it had been set in the 60s the whole sort of like currency conversion element wouldn't have been part of it it would have just been bag of money I

[00:54:44] assume so yes yeah it would have just been what if some kids found millions of pounds for sure in a bag of money he thought it was too close to whistle down the wind if you guys know that movie which is like kids find a criminal

[00:54:57] in a barn he's played by Alan Bates for whatever reason he thought that the period setting made it feel like whistle down the wind which is not I don't think that's a movie that non Brits know that well no I've never heard of it

[00:55:08] it's not a bad movie the other thing he considered which he's talked about a lot is that he wanted to turn it into a musical and he wishes they had like that's his big regret he thinks they wouldn't have gotten the money for it

[00:55:20] but he wishes they'd had the chutzpah he says this constantly because I feel like basically anytime he does an interview and people ask him you've covered so many different genres what do you still want to do he always says I

[00:55:32] wish I had done a full out musical it's like the biggest to do on my list the closest I came was millions I think the movie would have connected with people more if I had done it he always says like we didn't have the courage to commit

[00:55:45] to that at different times he said he wanted Liam Gallagher to write the songs Noel Gallagher I'm sorry I'm sorry Liam Gallagher doesn't write I'm sorry I mean he does write some songs but they're very they're very simple no

[00:55:58] offense maybe he wanted bad songs maybe he wanted bad songs in the movie maybe he wanted really shitty songs maybe the song should suck it's a Manchester it's set in the suburbs of Liverpool actually but you know it's set near Manchester

[00:56:10] like I can see him thinking that like what if we do this sort of northern soul movie right where we have like you know music by Oasis and stuff like that sounds great but that also sounds like a movie that costs twice as much money

[00:56:23] and can't be as kind of like impish and small scale is this thing right like it would have to be a pretty blown out thing at that point yeah and I think there's like the Ken Loach element to what he's doing obviously with the

[00:56:37] magical realism on top of it right right yeah that like I don't know how you square that in a movie that's already like trying to combine a little bit of like kitchen sink with some magical realism and then also having people

[00:56:51] break in a song that Herman said this feels like a movie where they could announce tomorrow oh they're like doing this at New Horizons as a musical right right and suddenly it's like one of these bizarre musicals that becomes

[00:57:04] a Tony favorite off a movie that no one's thought about in 20 years like on stage I could absolutely see this story working with songs as a movie I find it harder to picture me too I think that's fair either way I would probably

[00:57:20] forgive some of its logic trespasses more if it was a musical I think it would I think it would make more sense as a musical I wonder if that's what he's getting at when he says he wishes he had done it you know and saying like

[00:57:36] I kind of felt like that movie was totally close to being a musical but I just didn't have the courage to put the songs in it's like maybe that's just the plane of logic he wanted to operate on there's something more ecstatic

[00:57:50] about this is already a fantasy film in a way he's seeing visions he's seeing it's it's set in an unreal moment right that just telegraphs it to the audience much more clearly and it's just funny that he does sunshine after

[00:58:06] this but then he does Slumdog Millionaire where you're like once again it feels like you made kind of like a quarter of a musical like yeah why not just go all the way buddy I mean yesterday is probably the closest he's actually come

[00:58:18] to finally being like I shall make a musical correct he keeps saying that he's actively developing Miss Saigon which sounds interesting I mean look I don't like that show that much and I don't know that Danny Boyle should be

[00:58:32] making a movie out of it but like you say interesting I could be interesting does it is funny how much Slumdog feels like him figuring out the way to make this type of movie that connects with people he pitched this movie to Pathé

[00:58:47] who financed it as a cross between train spotting and Emily so if that's if that makes sense yeah I kind of does make sense like the whimsical visuals yeah I mean Amelie one of those weird examples of like an R-rated children's film it's

[00:59:04] like ostensibly a kids movie for grown-ups right right so Alex Attell as you said Griff the the main actor here he says Kelly McDonald Frida Pinto and this guy are the three times he cast someone the second they walked into the audition

[00:59:24] right like those are the three sort of Thunderbolt casting decisions he made he was eight years old apparently there was another kid who was a sort of more professional better actor better honed he doesn't say who obviously most people

[00:59:42] right who is I found me back he was dorky and he walked in with shoes on his knees he's done it again he told told Danny he'd been living as an eight-year-old for an entire year for 12 years no he he like a lot of people were pushing into

[01:00:02] cast what I assume was more of a established kid actor kid and Danny Boyle was just like I just he was so natural like he just felt like the lack of profession was

[01:00:15] was good for him and so that's why he cast him whereas the kid he cast as the older brother Lewis McGibbon was a professional kid actor and I think Danny Boyle was like he can he can fill out gaps like he'll be he'll be the one who can

[01:00:35] sort of hit that you know hit his lines and have the timing right and know how movies were you know like like if as long as I've got one of them that's fine but also I mean

[01:00:44] the key to this movie is believing that this kid is sort of this guy list and Alex Attell none of these sound like line readings you watch the movie and you kind

[01:00:53] of can't believe he was able to get a second take out of him you know because it just feels like well this kid's just saying this shit and there's also the big factor

[01:01:03] which is just this kid has an unbelievable pun on him yeah like the fact that the poster for this movie is just this kid's damn freckle face some unknown eight-year-old and the poster is just him smiling because it's like huh that is that is an

[01:01:19] interesting looking kid and for how much the movie's got to be him sort of like looking at things and thinking about them and reacting he's just got a funny look yeah it makes it hard to get so mad at him but I still do

[01:01:33] yeah he's he's got a sweet little face I think he's great Boyle says he'd never really directed kids before right is that true like he probably hadn't kids in the early movies the baby puppet the baby spotting but other than that

[01:01:48] yeah sure so he says like at first he was being like very interventionist right giving lots of specific direction and he the way he puts which I like it's like you get your fingerprints all over them like and it feels like what he really

[01:02:05] just wanted was natural performances you know as much as he could get them you know what I mean like like the quote from him is the best example of that is the scene where they look at the bras on the Internet if I told them what I

[01:02:16] think about bras as a 40 year old man on the Internet it gets very complicated I just let them play it as they wanted to like you know they're all they're responsible for that scene like and Boyle's opinions on bras they are

[01:02:29] complicated very hot takes like he is not yeah right exactly that's a very specific I think women should wear them upside down and you're like what does that mean Danny what's the function that you like that aesthetically

[01:02:41] he says the only time he ever lost his temper was the two kids were in one room I was in another they had to come through to the room I was in they were mucking around they've been eating tons of mint chocolate biscuits and were

[01:02:53] wired and I lost it and I was about to go yell at them and someone stopped him and said like they relax their kids but I think he did a great job I'm trying to think if you ever directed kids again not really again I mean there's a

[01:03:08] pivotal kid in Steve Jobs slumdog and then slumdog there I will know you're right of course they're little kids in that right yes I forgot I was like first come on no no I was like Griffin Depp Patel is not condescending but

[01:03:21] that's how I said the first chunk of that movie is like no you're right eight-year-olds or whatever yeah David here's another question I had watching this movie hmm is James Nesbit like a much bigger star in the UK than I

[01:03:34] realized yes yes absolutely he's like a humongous deal I mean I humongous is maybe not but he was in cold feet which is one of those things that like everyone in Britain knows but I guess no one in America knows right you don't

[01:03:48] know what cold feet is right no I just think of him as like a great character actor and I'm always happy when he shows up and then I was digging around his Wikipedia what do you know him from well like Bloody Sunday obviously he's the

[01:03:59] lead in that yes I mean obviously that's sort of an ensemble film and like an experiential film but he is absolutely the lead of it right and then you know that's Greengrass is like career maker but it's like no I know him I know him

[01:04:13] from this I know him from waking at divine I know him from the Hobbit you know yeah like I was one of the doors right as like a supporting guy and then in the UK like on TV he is a leading man right 100% because I would say in

[01:04:28] waking that divine he's he's pretty supporting in that yeah too right like because the old guys are the main guys in that he was the star of a British of a television show called cold feet with Helen Baxendale and other people you

[01:04:43] might recognize like that was like kind of a big very popular soapy comedy drama and he was like the sexy one of the guys in the show and he was like the sexy leading man in that okay as you know silly as that might sound to

[01:04:58] some and then you know he's had yeah he's our TV guy you know he's had a long successful career he had this like cop show called Murphy's Law he did Jekyll which was the Stephen Moffat update on Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde you know he's he's

[01:05:14] always around he's such a charming guy I love James Nesbitt yeah no I don't I think it's a pretty great performance but he's like he's the name in this movie not that it's being sold on his name he is the the only name in this

[01:05:29] movie I would say because Daisy Donovan is you know sort of a somewhat known comedy star at that point maybe that's about it now she's married to Dan Mazer I don't know if you knew that you know I didn't yeah can I give you my

[01:05:44] favorite James Nesbitt movie I've ever seen I've never seen it I've never seen a James Nesbitt bit in this movie please because I think David you'll have to tell us these two things seem especially British or at least

[01:05:59] stereotypically British and the Nesbitt one is the moment when he has to come to school because they've stolen money they think yeah and he's taking them out of school and Anthony the older brother is pretending to cry and be all upset about

[01:06:16] it and twice Nesbitt is like you shouldn't steal money but really don't cry and then and then a minute later he's like now let's stop crying oh and also don't steal it's it's as if I'm not ready to deal with any emotions I do not

[01:06:31] want to face any of these emotions and really I'm more horrified that you're crying than I am that you stole money it's much harder for him to take that they're crying I mean the most heartbreaking and clever shot in this

[01:06:44] movie is when the kid demands to get in bed with him early on and he pulls off the sheets and he's been hugging the pillows pillow like that shot just like is destroys me and like the pillows to replace his wife in bed for people who

[01:07:01] haven't seen the movie because up until that point in the movie he's not playing the morning at all Nesbitt's like being so upbeat and happy for the kids and it doesn't feel like he's hiding anything you kind of can't believe this guy lost

[01:07:14] his mind so instantly yeah I even think it's it's like that moment when I do like that other moment he has where they're in the car and everything's loaded up and he does go back into the house one more time and you hear on the

[01:07:27] in the sound design the mix you hear his wife possibly saying something to the kids but it's also like figuratively I don't want to live in this grief but also literally I don't want to live in this grief I don't want to live in this

[01:07:40] space let's go move somewhere else I got it I got to get out of here the other thing I had to ask you about because it happens twice in two different school scenes the exact same phrase is used so David I can only assume that your

[01:07:52] posture is perfect because twice they say is everyone sitting up nicely what kids weren't allowed to slouch at all at at assembly in the classroom I guess I mean that that feels very old-fashioned to me but I can I can imagine that being

[01:08:08] a thing you know keep your back straight that that's very old-fashioned to me did you guys in school talk to like did you have a talking trash can did you do that bit of course I mean that was that was a standard government issue at that point

[01:08:22] to have a talking trash bin yeah no there there there's just which I like there is you know the something driving this movie is that these kids don't know how to express how sad they are which is normal like obviously they've gone

[01:08:38] through this thing that's very difficult to process but that the culture around them is certainly not like hey have as much space as you'd like to talk about your feelings like right that is kind of like all right let's move on let's you

[01:08:52] know let's let's just you know no fussing yeah the other running joke in the film the my our mums died and they get whatever they want everybody hears that and instantly does just do whatever they have to do to get them out of the room

[01:09:05] and to not talk about it anymore what I like about that Adam is the implication is when when faced with that a kid saying my mum died these adults are so terrified of having to console this kid emotionally or get into it that they're

[01:09:20] like the easier thing to do is just give them whatever they want yep it's kind of funny too that the kid thinks that he got the money like this logic of like

[01:09:29] even God feels so bad for him yeah that he granted him you know all this money I mean that like as a kid that would make sense right right I love that as a kid

[01:09:39] he has that logic and you're like good kid logic but then every grown-up is like is there a lot of Bible stories about God just giving people money no he doesn't do that oh my god when you learn about religion he's like oh my god

[01:09:54] yeah he's like oh my god yeah he's like oh my god yeah he's like oh my god he doesn't really shell out has some joke about that at one point where he's like not known for giving money that's right known for taking not for you

[01:10:09] yeah he's always passing around a damn plate you gotta give him more cash what's he spending it on would be funny if that was what they said at church like this money will be put in a bag that will then drop at the feet of a

[01:10:24] needy child it's all gonna move around like it's yeah he does kind of have some fun at the expense of the Mormons the latter-day saints too right that they're totally hypocritical yeah it does which I found kind of shocking because like

[01:10:36] Britain doesn't really have a lot of Mormons obviously I know Mormons go on missions and I'm sure they're there but I Mormons might as well be space aliens to Britain just kind of mean to the Mormons but yes there is the scene with

[01:10:52] the Mormons where they they take the fall I guess for you know the kids that's where the money came from right that's the that's the gambit yeah I mean we should I guess just say basically you know the beginning this movie sets up

[01:11:07] this kid in his worldview them moving to this new community he likes to build cardboard forts and go on sort of flights of fancy I mean this is like a place where Boyle style really comes works the movies benefit I think there's

[01:11:23] certain moments where Boyle over cranks it and the style becomes a little bit self-defeating where the movie could maybe just take it a little easier but anytime the film is depicting the boys imagination especially that sequence

[01:11:36] where he's sort of at the very beginning imagining his cardboard fort being filled out with everything and you're watching like the computer being constructed one piece at a time and it's all sort of very handcrafted like

[01:11:48] almost Bishal Gondry esque it feels like a pretty good depiction of how a child's imagination works it doesn't feel overly synthetic or cutesy you know all of that I think is really good and even just the rendering of the the Saints I think of

[01:12:05] their performances but also the way he does the halos I really like I like the halos yeah the halos are fun and yeah and I like that they're all kind of regular you know like the performances are natural all of that's really really

[01:12:19] good but so yeah basically like 10 minutes into this movie a bag of money bumps him on the head while he's playing in a cardboard box by the side of train tracks and it is the central conflict for the rest of the movie now

[01:12:33] what do you do with the money he believes it is from God his brother thinks they should invest in real estate and all these sort of characters that pop up like the Mormons he's starting to test to figure out who is worthy of

[01:12:46] getting this money it's this odd little boy going around with like money tucked in his pants very gentle pay it forward kind of thing right like without any of the preachiness or the kids just like do you deserve money yeah are you in

[01:13:01] trouble there's the person selling the big issue which was a which I don't know if it still exists it was like a magazine that homeless people could sell like to make money that was like it was like the sort of very 90s British thing oh

[01:13:16] that's in New York in the early 2000s to big news yes it was called Street News Street Street in New York yeah yeah but like there's that moment with that person you know like there's there's that kind of like sweet kid thing like

[01:13:31] where when you're with a kid say and you see maybe a homeless person you're like let's keep moving like you know like the kids the one with the correct questions of like what's wrong can we help like right that person not sleeping in a house

[01:13:44] like yeah right and the grown-ups are like don't worry about it that's not our problem we're gonna keep it moving now you know like that weird dichotomy yeah yeah there's even just like him going up to people and asking are you poor which

[01:13:58] obviously bites him in the ass when we meet the poor man with the right but it's so funny because he's like he's not doing a moral test on these people he's not making them run through some gauntlet of questions to judge whether

[01:14:11] they're worthy of it in his mind is just like do they need the money or not yeah it's just a reality right yep right anyone who has does not have the money they want and obviously they're not rich by any means they live in this you know

[01:14:23] sort of modest circumstance like but that's you know now that he has this bag of money that's beyond him obviously that's why yeah the older brother is like you don't understand but you know we gotta we gotta we gotta we could put

[01:14:34] this to good use yeah right we gotta think towards the future well that's the other thing is that you know early on when he's talking to these saints he asked them about his mother he wants to believe that his mother has achieved

[01:14:46] sainthood in the afterlife that she's still there that she's been recognized so for this kid it's like he's he's playing the long game you know he like for him it's a simple calculation of like you got to give this mind to people

[01:14:59] in need and he's like I'm gonna give this mind to people in need and he's like I'm gonna give this mind to people in need and he's like I'm gonna give this mind to people in need and he's like I'm gonna give this mind to people in need

[01:15:10] because I need to be doing the saintly thing these are my heroes I want to be amongst them I want to be amongst my mother I just want to point out Griff this is interesting this is from Boyle one about the the talking bin they went

[01:15:22] to Disneyland Paris he took his kids there and they had a talking garbage can correct and he was delighted by it there was a guy in the distance who talks to him and he says I don't think I'm going to Disneyland Paris anymore but

[01:15:33] Matt Matt Gourley past and future guest friend of the show I believe was at one point the talking garbage can in Anaheim so that's hilarious the Halos Griff were done by a little CGI house called clear that doesn't exist

[01:15:50] anymore but Danny says he likes that they have a delay on them when they move I said they were initially done without a delay and they looked really bad but once the delay was built in that was that was what made them work and the

[01:16:02] other thing about the stop motion you know the boys new house thing you mentioned as you guys already sort of pinpointed biggest inspiration Tim Burton like that's he was like I wanted to go for like a Tim Burton thing

[01:16:16] even the score for this movie a lot of times starts to feel scissorhands there are themes in it yeah especially at the beginning that's what really clued me into it more than anything I mean yes the stop motion and CG is but

[01:16:28] the score John Murphy is that the guy it just seems like he was deliberately trying to draw on that well and it was just like such a specific tone that Burton was able to create at this point or before this point his like kind of

[01:16:44] miracle run in the 80s and 90s where like that's a guy who could quickly table set a world where you would accept anything happening even though it wasn't a musical and it's like Boyle is trying to keep one foot of this movie

[01:16:59] clearly ground of reality but it's also trying to give himself that latitude I think to some degree and it's interesting like that you know he's using Anthony Dodd Mantle again the cinematographer who had he just worked

[01:17:11] with on 20 days later but they're not shooting on digital they're shooting on film because at that point he was like you just couldn't get colors like this on digital and he wanted the movie to really pop with color it's a pretty lush movie yeah that's how Manchester looks

[01:17:27] Manchester looks right David colors are just brighter I mean I think what you joke but I do think he kind of was like this is often seen as a deadly and boring kind of a place especially the suburbs of any English sort of town

[01:17:44] like that and he wanted it to feel like delight he wanted to feel like what a kid would think a place like that is I agree right you know the town is called the town of darkness which is sort of basically in between Liverpool and

[01:17:56] Manchester Liverpool Manchester sort of like next to each other and and you know say a Ken Loach movie Griff or whatever would probably paint this is kind of a bleak industrial landscape and yeah it was like I don't want to do

[01:18:10] that I love the cop the cop is great this movie is very anti cop in a delightful little way like that kind of classic British thing like oh they're the kettles on right he's just like where give me something give me

[01:18:26] something for being here he welcomes everyone he walks everyone to the neighborhood and he's like you will probably more than likely be burgled so here's my card when you have to eventually you know put in an insurance

[01:18:39] claim but I'm not gonna help we're not gonna get anything out of it yeah and when their home is actually invaded he like makes the joke of like you know you can file a claim and you know try to get your money back but that probably

[01:18:49] won't happen till next Christmas and I'm like dude don't fucking kick this guy like he's down he really sucks he's a yeah yes there's a healthy disrespect for that kind of authority like at no point in this movie is anyone

[01:19:05] really like like you see you know like like you're saying Ben like you know well that's the government's money you know like no one's actually there's no moral concern over you know taking this bag of money there's more of a

[01:19:17] practical concern David I know if you skipped over this or if this is even in the dossier or it's coming up later but that control boy says that his like starting inspiration for this movie was reading an interview with Martin

[01:19:36] Scorsese where Scorsese talked about as a child the way he thought of the Saints yes he there's a book called the six o'clock Saints by Joan Wyndham which Scorsese had cited as a reference as an influence in an interview with

[01:19:54] Roger Ebert and basically you know thinking of them as these like insane gory erotic you know kind of mad people was an early influence on the movie and the script yes it's cool and this kid who's like collecting like view

[01:20:15] Saints like they're baseball players or whatever you know wants to like carry them around in his pocket yeah yeah he's there's that cute scene where he's in the classroom and like the teachers like so who inspires you and every kid is

[01:20:27] just naming a Manchester United player yeah and then he's like oh Saints inspire me like there's this one you know St. Catherine she got executed on a wheel like and the teacher has to immediately be like all right all right

[01:20:39] you know like you know it's like all of those stories are horrible like there's no Saint story that doesn't involve like death or war right like or sick people or whatever you know like a while that they're like taught to children I think

[01:20:53] the patron saint of TV is kind of cool who's the patron saint of TV she's the one that smokes a big ass bone in the beginning of the movie oh yeah right first on Claire that's right yeah she is cool she seems hip it would be funny

[01:21:06] if like she came back today she's from like the 12th century she's like so how do people remember me and people like your patron saint of television and she's like oh my god you know why she's the patron saint of television God

[01:21:27] Catholicism absolutely no idea why Pope Pius the 12th one of the weirder popes of the 20th century designated her weird that's a good idea yeah oh that's the next HBO show weird Pope he called her the patron saint of television

[01:21:46] in 1958 on the basis of when she was too ill to attend mass she had reportedly been able to hear and see television on the wall of her room what what is that like that that's insane that doesn't make any sense she was it's the 12th

[01:22:03] century she didn't have teeth whatever does she call it TV how did they know be funny if she did she was like I had like CBS Fox was kind of fuzzy couldn't make it to service she zoomed in okay yeah that's what you do so yeah

[01:22:22] is it what else do we want to say about the plot of millions before I mean we discussed the release of it because I feel like we've been all over the place so the what's her name Daisy Daisy Daisy Donovan comes in as a woman who's

[01:22:36] representative for guess it's not supposed to be UNICEF but maybe a UNICEF style charity right sure and time to this whole e-day thing the conversion that's supposed to happen she's trying to get basically the idea of the kids to

[01:22:50] donate pocket change whatever leftover money they're not going to convert at the bank to African villages to feed them to give them clean water machines and they have this truck talking trash bin played by Matt Gourley who are main

[01:23:08] kids just in trance by but also sees that she's the one working it I think that's kind of a cute moment where he notices her with the remote control and she kind of gives him the look that we're both in on this don't ruin the

[01:23:19] magic for anyone else but then he puts a fat wad inside this garbage can he's got like a broccoli wad of cash that he puts in there they call his dad and we want yeah it functions as a meet cute between Nesbit and Donovan which I

[01:23:38] think their scenes together really sweet but it also gets her involved in this sort of her voice in his ear additionally I do like that once she's aware of the money she's not the one who is virtuous about it she's not saying like well

[01:23:59] like I told you in school you need to donate all of this money to charity she's like I would like to go on a vacation yeah I appreciate that too at the same time there was another part of me watching it that was like he the

[01:24:11] father is so I understand that he's so irate and upset in this moment that he might not be thinking clearly but he's just met this woman who also knows what she does for a living or how they all met and he has to assume she's a fairly

[01:24:27] virtuous woman and he doesn't hesitate to just show this side of him and be like no I'm entitled to all this we're taking the money he he did you know when you are starting to date someone you're putting on the best version of yourself

[01:24:38] and he doesn't he doesn't seem to mind at all that she might actually judge him I actually do think that's maybe a problem with the screenplay a little bit that doesn't allow those people to be more real characters that he doesn't seem

[01:24:53] to hesitate for a second and that she doesn't seem to hesitate for a second they don't have a conversation about it at all no I'm a little surprised that they let her in on it and she buys into it so quickly with no hesitation I kind

[01:25:06] of I would accept her also been just been shaking his head I accept that she also gets to the point of look there are things I could use that money for it's it's the speed at which they like lay everything out for her and she's

[01:25:20] like well obviously what we should do but I don't know maybe maybe I'm wrong maybe this movie is about a group of Ben's surrounded by one twerpy kid I'm pointing at the screen at that point in the movie I'm like finally someone's

[01:25:31] talking some sense I do think you're right Adam like there's the characters the adult characters have that kind of one foot in fantasy or like kid vision you know like which is fine for the tone of the movie they're there that the

[01:25:50] kids the protagonists of the adults only have to make so much sense but there may the movie might be even sweeter with like 10 more minutes for Nesbitt Donovan to really like fall in love or whatever you know like for it to be

[01:26:07] maybe even more of a three hander whereas Nesbitt is very in and out in the early chunk of the film which is fine like it's fine I get it I like that the kids lying keeps getting them like like gets a second date you know because

[01:26:22] they're hiding the money in the bag that's their props for the play and that sort of sets up a second date like I don't know I think that's really fun especially because the older brother is trying to prevent it from happening

[01:26:36] David that thing you said about Boyle talking about having to figure out how to direct kids for the first time that this scene of the school play with the director feels very telling in that context right where the guy is trying to

[01:26:49] change the innate energy of this kid rather than just accepting like this is what this is what this kid is the thing he does yeah right you're not gonna you're not gonna turn that around yeah can we go for annoyed tired that stuff's

[01:27:04] all very cute there's the whole sequence where we sort of see what happened with the money this kind of like fast cut robbery action sort of fantasy sequence which is very Danny Boyle and very enjoyable with the football match and all

[01:27:20] that you know yeah and I think I read somewhere that Danny Boyle pulled the kind of nature of the heist from something in his life that it was sort of an urban legend his town growing up let me see if I can find this thing I think but

[01:27:35] I think the specifics of the heist and how it plays out or something he added to the script that's makes sense there is there is sort of a childish story aspect of the way it's really it's like it's Arsenal versus Newcastle and then

[01:27:50] this happened you know like you know like it does feel like something a kid would make up in a way but it's devastating for Damien for the main kid to learn that the money is stolen right like that is actually like tough for him

[01:28:01] he he wanted it to be from God yeah I mean it's maybe my favorite line in the movie where he says it isn't the money's fault it was stolen very very kid like to empathize with something inanimate but everyone's saying like this

[01:28:16] is bad money and he's like it can do good things the money didn't do anything wrong well he's a good boy he's a good little boy despite what Ben says yeah what about the interstitials what is what is going on with this old man and

[01:28:31] this woman dressed up like Santa's helper what what is going on he's like the British Bixby Snyder saying I'll convert that for a dollar essentially so that's Leslie Phillips who is like he's a lot of carry-on movies you know

[01:28:48] the carry-on movies Griffin Oh the carry-on movie the carry-on films are a for people who don't know there's dozens of them these British comedies from the 50s and 60s where Chateau is like you know a woman's top falls off and then a

[01:29:05] man's like oh no I say you know and all that his famous catchphrase is ding dong I believe Leslie Phillips he is better known these days probably as the voice of the sorting hat in oh sure Harry Potter but I think the idea is that's

[01:29:24] like the fake advertising campaign that Britain would roll out for the euro they would get some old beloved comedy guy and because it's Leslie Phillips they're putting him with a buxom lady because that's what he was famous for and he's

[01:29:39] going like oh the arrow it's gonna be fun and sexy for Britain to use the euro now it's it's just like a it's just a weird little joke I think about like Britain would deal with the euro I like it it's a good one pain yeah yeah he

[01:29:53] died Leslie Phillips by the way died last year at the age of 98 this movie is almost 20 years old but Leslie Phillips kept on going for another almost 20 years pretty cool what else guys there's the big Christmas shopping spree after

[01:30:10] the robbery right I'm trying to think of her forgetting anything else major before the finale so you really hate the finale Adam when when when do you turn on this movie let's let's dig into it yeah I turn on the movie pretty much

[01:30:27] right after the play I like the scene going to the old house and yeah he thinks the the bad guy is there and it's really dad but once they once they start rounding up the they find the house has been burgled they then decide to go to

[01:30:44] the banks I'm sort of out on again I didn't really buy the dynamic and the motivation of all the characters there at that point because of the the way she reacts or doesn't react and just as in on it even he the Damien goes from you

[01:31:01] can't do it dad you can't do it dad to then all of a sudden he's making up the we stories at the at the bank to hurry things along and helping her out which I

[01:31:09] can understand but also feel like wow he kind of he kind of goes along with the plan a little it is a good racket you have to get credit I have to we is a

[01:31:19] pretty solid racket but it almost seems like he's you know he's so into being genuine and honest and here he is embracing it for something that he's not fundamentally into now maybe the point is is that he knows he has to get the

[01:31:33] money because the bad guy is expecting the money so whatever he has to do to get it whether he wants to do it or not he'll he'll do it but where it just

[01:31:41] falls apart and this is you guys can tell me if I'm I'm just not I'm not giving Danny Boyle the latitude to use your word earlier Griffin that he's looking for or that he needs here if I'm if I'm being too literal and I'm too

[01:31:55] caught up on the the narrative in the structure of it but that moment where the doorbell rings and there's a line of people outside in the middle of the night around Christmas I know it was set up earlier in the movie right he's

[01:32:09] sending those checks away and yet at the envelopes and one of the Saints says don't check those boxes they'll hound you forever that's only set up for that but the idea that in the middle of the night those people would show up and it

[01:32:23] just so throws things off completely and then and the idea that Damien if he was envisioning that or that's part of the fantasy then I would get it but it's not it's not Damien's point of view it's it's really happening those people are

[01:32:38] really on his street his dad has to talk to them and I find that sort of I guess a little too contrived and it's sort of it exists to push him out of the house

[01:32:48] that's it to the train tracks right exactly and it's it's it's it's it's it's incredibly and I so I don't buy that and then I have to say I I do like the moment with the mother not deliberately obviously but it reminded me actually

[01:33:03] of The End of Field of Dreams a little bit you know that whole movie is about his relationship with the dad and if you build it he will come but we think he's talking about Joe Jackson and everything's been resolved in the movie

[01:33:15] but then all of a sudden right after everything's been resolved the dad just shows up and reminds you that oh actually this is about it's about father and son Right? I mean, in Field of Dreams, to me, it's just like a hammer blow that turns me

[01:33:25] into a puddle of mush. Obviously, people make fun of that moment, but I love it so much. Thank you, David. Thank you. You're in a safe space. Me too. And here, it's kind of like that, where all of a sudden, oh, this really is

[01:33:36] all the stuff we're talking about. The saints, you name it, right? What he's going to do. It really is just all about the loss of his mother and looking for her and trying to connect with her and have some closure there. So the fact that we get that,

[01:33:50] that reminder, I felt great about that. And so then to tack on to that, the imaginative, let's take a rocket ship to Africa and we're going to play in the water, that's what really bugged me a lot back in 2005.

[01:34:08] I give it a little bit more leeway this time just because I feel like I was more in tune to the fantastic or the fantasy nature of this film. But there's something that still sits really badly with me about that. I would have never used a term in 2005,

[01:34:25] like, you know, white savior. But, and it's not that, because they're not the ones responsible. I don't think we're supposed to believe that they're the ones responsible for bringing the water. But they show up and they get to frolic around in it.

[01:34:38] There's something that just feels a little exploitative and a little too sweet, as if all of a sudden, Boyle has taken you through all this and then he's going to want to really make you believe that he wants to change the world.

[01:34:51] That Danny Boyle wants you to feel like we're going to all work together to make the world a better place. It felt inauthentic to me. So two-pronged thing for me. One, I think this is... a weirdly difficult movie to resolve.

[01:35:07] I agree with you that I don't really like the way it wraps anything up, but I also have no idea in my mind how you do it better, because it just starts to stack so many things up on the plate. Yeah. I don't know what...

[01:35:22] Obviously, the resolution should be him talking to his mother. Like, we all, I think, agree on that. Like, that feels so natural. And the brother. The brother moment too. The brother seeing the mom too. That's closure after they've had their split.

[01:35:35] And they've been on opposite sides of this. So the fact that now they're coming together as a family, as brothers, is important too, with the mom. I guess that's the problem. The movie knows how to resolve itself emotionally, and it executes that well.

[01:35:47] It does not know how to resolve its plot. It's totally stuck on how to resolve its plot, which has gotten kind of out of hand. And it's like, we need to just get him to the train tracks, wanting to get rid of the money.

[01:36:00] And it does feel like a sort of absurd contrivance that these people show up on Christmas. No one, you know, would do that. And you're not even mentioning the additional contrivances, which is, they all show up on Christmas

[01:36:11] after he's left his home to go to the other home. But they come back, they see the people there. He thinks it's the poor man, quote unquote, right? Doesn't want to answer the doorbell. It's the line around the block.

[01:36:23] The cops show up to see what the disturbance is. That gives him the distraction to be able to leave and go to the train tracks. But it also means that when the poor man is now sneaking in through, the cops are already there

[01:36:36] because they're investigating what's going on here. Because they're suspicious of Nesbitt. So it gets him caught perfectly without ever putting the kid in any immediate danger at this final, like, denouement. But then also things like, why are they, like, uh, papering their walls with the belts

[01:36:54] perfectly for anyone to walk in and see? And then what does the cop end up making of all of this? These all feel like Danny Boyle ideas, where he's like, wouldn't it be brilliant if that happened? And it's like, yeah, that's fun.

[01:37:08] You know, and the same thing with the dream sequence in Africa at the end of the movie that feels like, wouldn't that be lovely? You know, you sort of like see him imagining how the money would be used. And that's fine.

[01:37:22] I don't dislike it as much as you, Adam, but like, I do feel like it's kind of just the movies in search of like a triumphant tag it doesn't need and it feels a little kind of like basic or head patty or whatever.

[01:37:36] Absolutely. Well, it goes back to the logic part we were saying in the musical. I can almost go with all those people showing up. I can hear the song in my head. It's almost a Jesus Christ superstar moment where we're hearing all the different people

[01:37:52] in unison, they're explaining what their cause is and what their need is. And it's this rousing musical moment. But as it plays out in this film, where no matter how fantastical the movie is, this is being played mostly straight. And it's setting up all those things, David,

[01:38:10] you said that it has to. It... Wow, does it not work. Wow, does it not work for me. Especially when you're cross-cutting it with the conversation with the mother, which is explicitly magical, but feels emotionally honest and realistic. Deeply, mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yes.

[01:38:28] Right, versus this other stuff that is presented as reality and feels incredibly over the top. The other thing that I think is interesting, so I was watching Trance. We've recorded that episode already. But there's a special feature on the Trance, like Blu-ray, iTunes extras,

[01:38:48] that is Danny Boyle doing an overview of his entire career. And he's sort of just like doing speed round on all of his movies. And he talks a lot about how with Slumdog, he was basically trying to correct the sins of his past because he has been living,

[01:39:09] I think still to this day, with an extreme amount of guilt over the damage that filming the beach caused to that location. That they caused actual physical sort of damage, having to redress this kind of perfect, idyllic, you know, untouched piece of nature for their own filming.

[01:39:33] But it also turned into a tourist attraction. The government has had a really hard time controlling it. It was closed down for a long time. It's more the lingering damage that they're... Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The ongoing, yeah. Right. He's like...

[01:39:47] For a movie that most people don't even remember, that movie has irrevocably fucked up that island. And it still lingers, like, you know, almost 25 years later. And he talked a lot about when he did Slumdog, and he was like, I'm gonna make a movie,

[01:40:01] I'm gonna go into India, I'm gonna film in the actual slums, I'm gonna film with actual children. We cannot be invading this space. You know, on the beach, I was trying to make a movie about colonialism, and we ended up doing

[01:40:11] the exact thing we were trying to make a movie against. And now I try to really think about not just the movies themselves and the message, but the way in which I'm making them functioning in a moral way, that I'm like sort of walking the,

[01:40:24] you know, the walk. Uh, and a thing I read that was very interesting is that Danny Boyle made a sort of plea to the cast and crew of this movie that there would not be cast and crew wrap gifts, that they would not spend the money

[01:40:39] to make a bunch of cheap T-shirts with millions 2004 on them for everyone to take home and probably never wear, that they allocated the money that would've been for that to donate to a village in Africa to create one of these clean water machines.

[01:40:53] And it feels like he was so caught up in that concept that he also decided to make it the end of the movie. LARSON Right, right, right. There's... Yeah, well, that's funny. I mean, I can see that... It just... This movie marks a shift for him thematically.

[01:41:08] Right? Beyond just... Like, making a movie for kids. There's just like... I mean, Sunshine is sort of... Even Sunshine has an optimistic tinge to it at the end. And then Slumdog and 127 Hours. Yeah, you know... CARLSON Oh, especially the end.

[01:41:23] I think it's one of the things people don't... But yes, this is when he starts wearing his heart on his sleeve and it starts to turn certain people off. LARSON Right. But it does seem to be a huge part of him. And yeah, maybe you're right.

[01:41:35] Maybe he does kind of have the burnout of like, I have to stop being this kind of like... You know, sexy, play-fast, hard-and-loose kind of, you know, young filmmaker and I should be more conscientious or whatever. And that's forming the ending. I don't care.

[01:41:51] I just don't really care. I care about him talking to his mom. I think that stuff is fine. I think it's good. You know, I think it's well done. It's sweet. And it totally carries off the movie for me.

[01:42:02] But yeah, the rest of the stuff I could take or leave. CARLSON Yeah, and just having every one of them reveal that they secretly kept some of the money so that... It's a little have your cake and eat it too.

[01:42:14] And then he doubles down and again being like, we all did the thing that we wanted. We got our vacation, we bought the PlayStation 3, this and that, but then also we did the charitable thing. Like, it just feels like he is two or three times in a row

[01:42:27] trying to land on both sides in this ending. But it is like, I do like this movie. You know, the ending falls apart for me, but it doesn't totally sour me on it. And I do just... I don't know, I like the swing of it.

[01:42:50] BOWEN Yeah, me too. CARLSON You know, for these two guys to do something so outside of their wheelhouse, that was also pretty out of vogue in general in the industry at the time. I mean, Boyle was talking about like, you know,

[01:43:02] he pitches he wants to do a zombie movie. People can understand the idea of doing an arthouse zombie movie or an inexpensive zombie movie. And he's like, if you go to Fox Searchlight and you say we wanna make a kids' movie,

[01:43:12] they don't understand how you're gonna compete against Pixar. Like, there isn't a thought of there being different scales of family film. And so to make one that's more grounded and lower budget and all of that, it's a thing that people rarely do.

[01:43:26] You rarely see people going to Sundance with movies that are PG, you know? That independently working outside of the studio system, that's what they're choosing to focus their energy on. BOWEN Right. And I said this time around, I definitely appreciated the filmmaking.

[01:43:40] I appreciate the filmmaking a lot more. And you talked about Anthony Dodd-Mantle in the cinematography here. There is some real artistry, of course. And I've been listening to your guys' series and you've touched on this with Boyle, right? Like, he's never gonna be bland.

[01:43:55] He's always gonna make a choice, right? And that's why we like him and that's why even when the films don't quite work, like this one doesn't quite for me, we still respect it and we still wanna talk about it. And there are moments like that shot

[01:44:08] when Damien early in the film, when he's in the new house, right? Leaves his bedroom. And we get the over-the-head shot, which it didn't occur to me until thinking about it more ahead of this that it's kind of a nice heaven's eye view,

[01:44:20] maybe the mom sort of looking down on the family. But anybody could have shot that. Oh, Damien is having trouble sleeping. Let's have a shot of him getting out of bed. Then the door opens. You know, long shot of him going down the hallway.

[01:44:32] Door opens on the dad. I mean, we all could script or choreograph this moment. And the fact that he found such a graceful way to look at the entire family and move through that house is, it's really wonderful. And even when he opens the door,

[01:44:48] he opens the door to his brother's room and the lighting is so precise that the triangle of light that comes in from the hallway points perfectly at his brother at the computer. You know, it's like that type of attention to detail

[01:45:02] that maybe you can miss the first time through, but you see it again and it just all feels right in that way. There's another really nice moment the first day at school when, I mean, there's a lot of great shots in this film,

[01:45:14] but there's a great shot the first day of school where his brother's kind of like, you're weird, stay over here, don't embarrass me. And he stays there and they just do this long pull back to show the whole expanse of the playground

[01:45:28] with Damien sitting, you know, standing there against the wall. And the separation, the juxtaposition of him, motionless, alone, but against all these people having so much fun, right? It's just such a lovely shot that captures his mental state

[01:45:45] at that moment where I think he can go a little too far, where I think we can get Danny Boyle being like, oh, I gotta get out my bag of tricks here. This isn't really adding anything, but I'm gonna do something cool,

[01:45:56] is the moment where they have just come back, I think, or they're about to start looking at apartments. The brother's looking at real estate. And so the shot starts with them walking down the sidewalk and going around a corner, and then the camera pulls back to reveal

[01:46:12] that's now a photograph of a neighborhood on the glass of the business they're looking at. It's a really clever shot. I've actually never seen, I'm not sure I've seen anything like it. It adds absolutely nothing. Nothing, nothing. There's no thematic purpose. It's ingenious. But that's the Boyle magic.

[01:46:36] It's just right. Every, like you say, there's no boring shot. He can't do it. He won't do a boring establishing shot. No, everything is a choice, and sometimes it is a choice that somehow expresses a thing visually better than you could ever imagine.

[01:46:49] And sometimes it is just a flourish for the sake of a flourish. But the other thing is when you read about how he makes his movies, especially at this point in his career, it's small crews. So it really is, I think, him being like,

[01:46:59] come on, that'll be fun. You know, like there is this kind of like everyone's in it together to do this inventive stuff. They're not like, oh my God, Danny, like that's gonna take all day. Like, what are you thinking?

[01:47:10] Like, did we need the video phone part of the movie? Probably not. It feels like that just feeds into the cutting edge part of the movie. Like the sort of like, oh, it's like the near future. Like everything's changing. Like Britain's gonna have the euro, all that stuff.

[01:47:25] And then he does a wipe that is like basically a screensaver. Yes. Yeah. I mean, stylistic, I guess. Pretty... He loves that new digital feel. Pretty dated at this point. Yeah. Well, whatever. You're dated. Hey. I am. Hey! Yeah, you heard me. Box office game.

[01:47:45] Well, one thing as I set up the box office game, uh, this film premiered at TIFF in 2004 and Danny Boyle, I think in my opinion, kind of wisely was like, so is this gonna be a Christmas release? And Pathé decided to kick it to March.

[01:48:00] And they probably should have released it at Christmas because it wasn't a success anyway. Like it made six million US and about 11 worldwide. Like, I think it did okay on home video. But like he... The Boyle's quote is, uh,

[01:48:13] there was a lack of confidence about our ability to compete with the big three American movies released at Christmas. I remember thinking they'd be awful and they were. Actually want to look up America at Christmas. Do you know, do you remember what the Christmas movies were that year?

[01:48:26] For 2003 or 2004. Four. Uh... So I guess it's like the Polar Express year, but obviously that had been... Polar Express, Elf, Incredibles. I'm like, what comes out on Christmas day, 2004? It's like Meet the Fockers and Lemony Snicket. Okay. And, you know, I guess that sort of, you know, Spanglish.

[01:48:50] It isn't the best weekend. I can see what he's saying. National Treasure though, that's good. Hey. Oh no, but that's been out since Thanksgiving. Yeah, I'm sorry. The Christmas Day releases, Fat Albert. Yeah, it is a bad crop. Yeah, those were the three.

[01:49:08] It was Fockers, Phantom of the Opera and Fat Albert were the three that came out on Christmas basically. Well, nonetheless, this was more of an Easter release. And so let's do the March 11th, 2005 box office Griffin. This film is opening in limited release on five screens for $70,000.

[01:49:25] But number one is an animated film for children. In 2005, was it Meet the Robinsons? No, it is not a Disney film. It is from Fox. It's a Fox movie. Is it Ice Age 2? No, but it is from the director of Ice Age. It's Robots. It's Robots. It's Robots.

[01:49:49] Which I've never seen. Robots. Have you seen Robots? It's William Joyce. So the whole, like the design of that movie is incredible. And I remember the script being incomprehensible despite being written by David Lindsay-Abbey. That is who it was written by. You were correct.

[01:50:08] Along with Lowell Gantz and Babaloo Mandel, you know, the icons. But like, a movie with like a great The Art of Robots book probably. It works on that level. Have you ever seen that movie, Adam? Have you had to... You have not had to go through Robots

[01:50:24] with any of the children? No, we have not seen it. And obviously, we chose to talk about Millions that week instead of talking about Robots. Yeah, you did not talk about Robots. Just feels like a movie lost to time. Like could be on Disney Plus, isn't. Is not.

[01:50:40] Like no one wants to think about it. Millions is on Disney Plus. Disney has claimed Millions as one of their own. Robots, absolutely not. Um, so number two is a family film, Griff, that was number one the week before and it stars one of your favorites.

[01:50:54] Uh, it stars one of my favorites. Is it a Steve Martin film? No, this guy doesn't do a family film usually. Nope. I know what it is. It is arguably my least favorite film of his. It is The Pacifier. It's The Pacifier. Vin Diesel's The Pacifier.

[01:51:12] Uh, with Vin Diesel and Lauren Graham. He's an FBI, no, Navy SEAL who has to be a babysitter. Yeah, there's a duck in it. Okay. I've never seen it. It was an unambiguous hit. That is the thing people forget. Huge, huge hit.

[01:51:29] It was kind of the moment of like, okay, Vin Diesel must be for real. He's, you know, getting that over the line, you know? And then, and then The Rock follows his lead and does like two theory in the game plan.

[01:51:39] He does his run of doing the family. Now I'm with a bunch of little kids movies. The Pacifier bigger than any of The Rock's attempts to do that. The Pacifier was wildly successful. It is, uh, not a good movie. Speaking of The Rock, uh, number three,

[01:51:55] uh, Adam already invoked it. It was the movie he talked about on the prior episode of his podcast. Uh, it is a, a crime comedy ensemble picture. Yes. Be cool. And a sequel. It is Be Cool. Uh, F. Gary Gray's Be Cool, which I remember being god-awful.

[01:52:16] It is god-awful. And it's, The Rock is in that, right? Because he sure is. He's one of the more interesting parts of it. That was the last time maybe The Rock was ever interesting on screen. In fact, I think it's that and Pain and Gain,

[01:52:28] although I know Pain and Gain is also a very contentious movie in the history of film spotting. Oh, divisive. Divisive. Josh is a big fan. He's also a much bigger fan of Millions than I am. Damien was on his top five Danny Boyle characters.

[01:52:40] Wow. When we have Josh on sometime in the future, we will get a speed round on his Millions of fans. You know what else he likes, guys? Sorry. He's also a big fan of A Life Less Ordinary. He's the one. Okay, well, that's...

[01:52:54] We might try him at The Hague for that. You know, a lot of people like that movie, Griff. Like, our Reddit was very like, oh, what a charmer. And I was, I can't get there with A Life Less Ordinary. I hate it. You were all ready. Yeah. No.

[01:53:09] So, number three is Be Cool, which was, you know, kind of a flop. Made 55 million. Number four is... I saw this film in theaters. It is an action picture starring an action star. It's very basic film. I remember that the opening credits were the best thing about it.

[01:53:28] Bruce Willis in Hostage? That's correct. I saw it in theaters. Just don't remember anything else about it. Kevin Pollack might be the bad guy? I thought Ben Foster was the bad guy. Oh, yeah, that's right. Ben Foster's the bad guy. Kevin Pollack might be the good guy,

[01:53:41] but then maybe turns out to be bad. Yeah. You know, one of those classic, like, he's your friend, and then he's like, hey, I'm sorry, they offered me a lot of money. I'm Kevin Pollack. I have a flat cap on. It's just business. It's business.

[01:53:54] Yeah, it's just business. But I know we're friends. Like, yeah, no, I went to your daughter's wedding. I understand, but you know... Ben Foster, like, deep into his run of reading a script and going, my take on this character is shaving my head

[01:54:05] and acting like I'm on crystal meth. He did that about ten times. I feel like in movies... Oh, interesting choice for you, Ben. Okay, very good. I don't know, I'm seeing this sort of... explosive... No, like, you describing that, as generic as your description sounded,

[01:54:23] I felt like there was only one movie it could be because this was that era where even though Bruce Willis movies weren't as big as they were, they obviously were more legitimate than like the sad sort of run into diminished states.

[01:54:35] Yeah, they would get a big wide release, you know, this movie opened to ten million dollars and made 35. It did not do well. I just remember that one coming out and going like, why did he sign on to this? The pitch was, what if there was a hostage?

[01:54:50] Pretty much. There's like no hook here. Yeah, it's not really a hook. Uh, I don't know. And the director is not like a well-known director. So, yeah, I don't know. Number five, Griffin, is a big hit of the early... winter, spring, whatever, you know,

[01:55:08] it's been out for a month plus. It's a romantic comedy. It's a romantic comedy in 2005. One huge star? One huge star. This star is this movie. Oh. Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. You're talking about less a movie and more a movement. You're talking about the one name that is

[01:55:35] the cure for the common man? Sure. Yes, he was the cure for the common man. And his name was... It's Hitch. Uh, and he would tell you things like, don't offer to buy your girlfriend a diet soda, you buffoon, that'll be $10,000, please.

[01:55:50] Or whatever, whatever it is he does. Expensive but he's worth it, the results. I mean, you talk about Pacifier being one of those moments where people threw up their hands. I mean, the moment pretty much ends right after Pacifier,

[01:56:00] but go like, if Vin could make this a hit, then I guess this guy is more powerful than we thought. Hitch becoming that level of blockbuster was truly the moment where I think everyone went, I guess Will Smith literally in anything,

[01:56:12] in any genre, at any time of year works. Um, I have long contended that film is now... There's just a lot of fake nostalgia for that movie. It's not a very good movie. But, uh, some people stick up for Hitch. Including maybe one Griffin Newman.

[01:56:29] Is it a better... Let's put it this way. Would Hitch have aged better as a best picture winner than Crash? This is the question I threw up. -...Yes. Unambiguously. -...You're saying it doesn't age well. But, unambiguously. Yes. I mean, obviously you're putting it up against...

[01:56:47] I mean, Crash is the biggest fall guy possible, but yes. Yes. Yes. If Hitch won best picture, it would not be like one of the most embarrassing best picture winners. If Hitch had beaten Brokeback Mountain to best picture... Okay, you're right. People would be angry.

[01:57:03] I do think people might hold a grudge against it. They gave it to Hitch? Yeah, they put that, you know, imagine Jack Nicholson going, -"Hitch?" Like, that was... Andy Tennant won best director for Hitch? Some other films in the top ten that week.

[01:57:21] Million Dollar Baby, which is on its post-best picture win run to $100 million. Diary of a Mad Black Woman, which had come out three weeks earlier and shocked everyone and, you know, against the... The first Halloween movie. Empire, yep. The wildly underrated Constantine that is... Isn't getting a sequel?

[01:57:41] It's... They're like now tripling down on, like, we swear to God we're doing it. Yeah. Man of the House, the Tommy Lee Jackson movie, the Tommy Lee Jones, Christina Milian two-hander. I don't know why those guys haven't worked together again. Okay, Adam, you texted me about this recently.

[01:57:59] Uh-huh. Oh, about Man of the House? Was there a misunderstanding? Because you were getting mad at me for defending Man of the House, the Chevy Chase, Jonathan Taylor, uh, Jonathan Taylor Thomas comedy. Were you confusing it with this

[01:58:14] or do you hate that movie as much as this one? I've actually never seen either. I was more just aghast at your ability to pull these titles and to... And to sometimes say positive things about these movies that I've always assumed were just awful.

[01:58:32] I have not seen this film. Oh, Ivan either. Your exact text, Adam, was Man of the House, come the fuck along. I couldn't believe you pulled that. Well, got a broken brain. Apparently, Ann Archer is in this movie. I just remember that being one of those releases

[01:58:50] where it was kind of like, well, what? This isn't helping anybody. Tommy Lee Jones, he has more dignity than this. He doesn't need to be the Man of the House. No, also one of those movies where you're like, was this shot in 96 and it's just sat on a...

[01:59:05] It didn't feel like a 2005 movie. Tommy Lee Jones, cheerleaders? Like, I'm supposed to be like, oh, wow, what a combination. I assume he does rock the house, though, of course, Griffin. Well, that's why they called it that. Right. Number ten at the box office

[01:59:21] is Cursed, the Wes Craven, the much delayed Wes Craven werewolf horror comedy. Yes, Eisenberg-Greechy. Which I've never seen. I've never seen it. And I was hyped for it, I remember. And then the reviews were so universally despondent that I avoided it. I think fairly disowned,

[01:59:40] because it was also Kevin Williamson and Craven working together. It was, there was excitement about it. But everyone swore off of it. There's apparently still an outcry to release the Craven cut. Why not? Do it. What do I care? Yeah, release the Craven cut.

[01:59:58] We'll do Craven one day. I don't know. Maybe. The film got good reviews. And I do think it's not a cult classic by any means, but it's sort of like a well-liked... family, you know, rental, like that. Maybe got to that status.

[02:00:16] But it is just a funny little oddity in between these two hyper-dark sci-fi films that he made. Especially, you're scrolling across Disney+, where so much of what's on there next to millions is either so humongous and bombastic and like overexposed, or like weird, nonexistent live action Disney curios,

[02:00:38] like a man of the house, that no one but me can find any nostalgia for. Like, this is sort of an odd outlier. And it is like... It is a charming movie for its faults. Agree. Millions. We did it. We talked about it.

[02:00:55] We did it. We talked about millions. Adam, thank you so much. Thank you. Such a pleasure. People who should listen to film spotting who don't already. It's a real comfort food podcast. It's a real comfort food podcast for me. I find you guys very relaxing.

[02:01:14] And I hope that doesn't sound backhanded in any way. But it was a thing I found so funny listening to the second episode for the first time, is on that, at the beginning of the Cinecast, you maybe talk even faster than I do.

[02:01:29] And I think of you now as someone who has settled so well into like such a professional broadcaster, like public radio voice. You have like very specific rhythms. That is something that has changed. That was one of the things that horrified me.

[02:01:44] Besides the fact that I felt like I did not give my much smarter co-host, Sam, any room to talk. It was exasperating. It felt like I was talking so fast. I don't know what the race was. I don't know if it was that I was trying to

[02:02:00] make the show quicker for our listeners or what. But I was just talking so fast about this movie. And it did make me realize how much I've settled into something maybe a little bit more comfortable in terms of my pace. Yes. I highly recommend listening to current episodes

[02:02:17] of Film Spawning and then maybe when you're done, go back to episode two. Or not. You don't ever need to listen to those. It would be quite a project if someone was like, I'm listening to every damn episode. I'm firing it up. I'm doing it all.

[02:02:30] It happens. It blows my mind. But some people, they hear, they get into the show. I'm sure they do with your show too, right? But they hear it and they go back to the beginning. They go back and they want to hear everything in order. It's crazy.

[02:02:41] They do it with our show and I get it. And I do it with new shows that I discover. But, you know, 18 years, it's just a lot of show. Also, your show is usually tied to new releases.

[02:02:54] So it's truly just time traveling back to what was the thing? Be Cool was the talk of the town in April 2005. I know. We actually felt so bad about it. I remember having a conversation at the time where it's like, what should our... Now this is Be Cool,

[02:03:08] but we were saying, what should our first episode be? And we knew that coming out in a month or two was Revenge of the Sith. Oh, yeah. And so I remember posing to Sam, like, should we actually wait? Should we make our first episode be

[02:03:22] at least a movie people maybe want to hear people talk about and are excited about it? And Sam was smart enough to just say, no, we should just start. You know, it doesn't matter. Yeah, get your sea legs. Let's get it going. Right.

[02:03:32] And so we did, and I think that it ended up being episode 14 or something like that. He was really right, because if we hadn't had that leeway, it would have been a struggle. Adam, sorry to correct you, it ended up being episode three.

[02:03:44] Episode three, Revenge of the Sith. There's no way. Was it? Apologies. No, let's make a bad Star Wars joke. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, thank you. I feel so bad I missed the joke. It was bad. I was thinking, no, I remember we talked about

[02:03:57] Melinda and Melinda on week three. So how dare you, Griffin? She's comedy and drama. And, you know, if you had done Revenge of the Sith, if your first episode ever had been you shitting on Revenge of the Sith, I don't think Josh ever

[02:04:10] would have agreed to co-host FilmSpot. I actually loved Revenge of the Sith. Really? I loved it in 05. I think I might have given it like five stars. So maybe at this point, I should go. These are reasons to dig through the FilmSpotting archive. There you go.

[02:04:27] And thank you so much for doing this. Thank you. No, it's always a pleasure. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media and helping to produce this show.

[02:04:39] Thank you to Alex Barron, AJ McKeon for our editing, Leigh Montgomery for our theme song, Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork, and JJ Birch for throwing a duffel bag off of a moving train filled with notes about Danny Boyle's millions. His dossiers have gotten about as heavy

[02:04:58] as a duffel bag full of a million dollars. Yes. We love him. Yes, we do. Tune in next week for Sunshine. Another wild swerve. One of our shared favorite movies and a movie we've been waiting to talk about since we started this show eight years ago. Legit. Legit.

[02:05:17] You can go to BlankCheckPod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, where we do franchise commentaries and all sorts of other bonus things, like the Olympic ceremony. And 28 weeks later, will both be happening over there. Yeah.

[02:05:36] Sunshine, no guest. We're calling it right now. For you dang ass freaks. No guests. Nope. Because Dave and I just need to vibe out on this one. I didn't realize this movie was a thing for you guys. Now I'm so excited. Humongous. Okay.

[02:05:50] Humongous. Like, before we even had the miniseries we were doing, we were doing a lot of stuff. Before we even had the miniseries idea, we were like, we should just do a Sunshine episode on its own. When we were just a Star Wars podcast,

[02:06:03] we were like, we should just talk about Sunshine one week. So get ready for what will be the most important episode in the history of podcasting. It'll be 29 minutes long probably or something. Yeah, quick 29. No, we're gonna keep that one short. As podcasts should be. Yeah.

[02:06:19] And as always, if Ben had found the bag of money for millions, it would have ended with him living on an island that he owns. A hundred percent. I thought you said you had your quote. I did. I'm second guessing it, but I'm gonna do this.

[02:06:40] Just do it. And then if we hate it, we'll tell you. Yeah. And we'll tell you. We won't spare your feelings. Ready? Ben? I want you to place that at the end of the episode in anticipation for what I'm about to do

[02:06:55] because I think there's gonna be some befuddlement. Okay? I can't wait to hear you do a minion voice. I'm not doing that! This isn't minions. I hope you didn't watch Minions by accident. What? And that's at the end of the episode. Ready?