Mulholland Drive with Leslye Headland

[00:00:21] When you see the podcast in the picture that was shown to you earlier today, you will say this is the podcast.

[00:00:28] The rest of the podcast can stay, that's up to you, but the choice for that lead podcast is not up to you.

[00:00:34] Now you will see me one more time if you do good. You'll see me two more times if you do bad. Good podcast.

[00:00:42] There's sometimes a podcast. How many hosts does a podcast have?

[00:00:47] There's so many more you could do. Come on. No iPodcast? I thought you might do that.

[00:00:53] Oh sure. A man's podcast goes some ways.

[00:00:58] Oh, you just like the cowboy.

[00:00:59] Yeah, I do. But you're not doing his voice. You're doing a more generic cowboy voice.

[00:01:03] I'm doing more generic cowboy voice.

[00:01:04] There's sometimes a buggy. I wish I could do Monty Montgomery exactly right.

[00:01:08] Monty Montgomery, secret legend of Blank Check.

[00:01:11] He's come up before.

[00:01:12] Oh, he hasn't come up before.

[00:01:14] Do you know who plays the cowboy?

[00:01:16] Yes, the producer.

[00:01:18] Montemore.

[00:01:18] Yeah, yeah.

[00:01:18] But was the co-director of Catherine Bigelow's first film, The Loveless.

[00:01:23] Excuse me?

[00:01:24] Which we covered on the show and was also the producer of Jane Campion's Portrait of a Lady.

[00:01:29] True.

[00:01:29] And then produced several of David Lynch's films and appears in this as an actor.

[00:01:33] Like has now crossed three miniseries in a way, in a capacity that kind of feels like the role the cowboy plays in this movie relative to those people's careers where it's like I just roll into town.

[00:01:44] I make a big impact.

[00:01:46] I disappear.

[00:01:46] There's sometimes a buggy.

[00:01:48] I'm working with you very intensely for a short period of time and then I'm gone.

[00:01:52] What were you going to say?

[00:01:53] What were you going to say about the cowboy?

[00:01:54] We've covered him as a director, a producer and an actor.

[00:01:57] That's true.

[00:01:58] We have.

[00:01:58] Well, he in Room to Dream, he talks about how he just wanted Monty for the role and said, I would like you to play this role.

[00:02:12] And Monty said, absolutely not.

[00:02:14] Yeah.

[00:02:14] But then people kept calling him being like, so here are your dates.

[00:02:18] Right.

[00:02:19] Which I do think is kind of the Lynch.

[00:02:21] The funny thing to think about, he's in the TV pilot.

[00:02:23] We're going to talk about all of this.

[00:02:24] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:25] And you can just imagine the Twin Peaks thing of like, sorry buddy, now you're just going to be in every five episodes.

[00:02:32] Right?

[00:02:33] It's like, you're the log lady now.

[00:02:35] Yeah.

[00:02:35] You're just going to be showing up.

[00:02:37] Yeah.

[00:02:37] Like it's not just you did me a favor for the pilot.

[00:02:40] He is very log lady though.

[00:02:41] That's what I'm saying.

[00:02:41] Because the light flickers.

[00:02:44] Yes.

[00:02:45] Before he shows up.

[00:02:46] Yeah.

[00:02:47] I was just double checking.

[00:02:48] This is his only acting.

[00:02:49] It's his first and only acting.

[00:02:50] Like obviously, not only was he not a professional actor, but it's not even like he has a cameo in the Loveless.

[00:02:56] It's not like he has cameos in his other films he produced.

[00:02:58] No.

[00:02:58] He does.

[00:02:59] Lynch saw him.

[00:03:02] And either came up with the character.

[00:03:02] Had already been working with him for like five or six years at this point.

[00:03:05] But do we think he came up with the character looking at him and thought.

[00:03:08] Possibly.

[00:03:09] I'm kind of guessing.

[00:03:10] Or he had the character and then was and then felt Monty's the only person.

[00:03:13] There's sometimes a buggy.

[00:03:14] When we talked about him in our Loveless episode.

[00:03:16] And this was before we had researchers as we were fucking scrambling for context on Mike.

[00:03:21] We were like, who's this guy?

[00:03:23] And we Googled him and saw a picture of him.

[00:03:25] We're like, first of all, his name is Monty Montgomery.

[00:03:26] Here's the picture.

[00:03:28] This is his IMDB picture.

[00:03:29] It looks like a tin type of a bank robber from the fucking 1870s.

[00:03:34] Can we make the Garrett type jokes?

[00:03:34] We did like 40 minutes of bits of like, how did this man enter through a time warp?

[00:03:38] So I kind of see David Lynch looking at him.

[00:03:41] I believe he wore his own clothes.

[00:03:42] Yeah.

[00:03:42] And so I believe.

[00:03:43] He'll be like, you know what?

[00:03:44] If I just put you in front of camera and you just say my oblique dialogue, that will

[00:03:48] have some power to it.

[00:03:49] Yeah.

[00:03:50] Yeah.

[00:03:51] And again, in Room to Dream, he says that, or maybe Thoreau says that he said, do you

[00:03:57] want to run lines to Monty?

[00:03:59] And Monty was like, I'm good.

[00:04:01] Hell yeah.

[00:04:02] Then they start the scene.

[00:04:04] He has no idea what he's saying.

[00:04:05] Yeah.

[00:04:06] So they just wrote the lines and then taped them on Justin.

[00:04:11] We should cut to Justin just covered inside.

[00:04:14] Sometimes there's a buggy.

[00:04:15] You know.

[00:04:16] Have you guys seen those pictures?

[00:04:17] You're too busy being a smart aleck to be thinking.

[00:04:19] The behind the scenes pictures from the filming of The Godfather, where Brando, of course,

[00:04:24] was in his PQ card era.

[00:04:25] Right.

[00:04:26] And every other cast member.

[00:04:27] There are photos from The Godfather where you're like, this is one of the most iconic

[00:04:30] scenes in the history of movies.

[00:04:31] Right.

[00:04:32] And Michael Corleone just has Q cards around his neck or something.

[00:04:34] There's a great one of Duvall, where he literally has 10 different pieces of paper

[00:04:38] pinned to his wool suit.

[00:04:40] But hey, it seems to be working.

[00:04:41] Yeah, I've seen this one.

[00:04:42] It is.

[00:04:43] It seems to be.

[00:04:43] Robert Duvall looks like he's doing the Love Actually proposal.

[00:04:46] Yes.

[00:04:46] And he's just got like giant.

[00:04:48] To me, you are perfect.

[00:04:54] It works, man.

[00:04:55] If it works, it works.

[00:04:56] That's the thing.

[00:04:56] If it works, it's working.

[00:04:58] I mean, that's so funny though.

[00:05:00] Especially, I mean like Clooney, the famous thing with Clooney that I talk about sometimes

[00:05:04] is that in ER he would put his sides on his, you know, little clipboard, right?

[00:05:09] Because he's a doctor.

[00:05:10] Yeah.

[00:05:10] And so, and he looks down at them all the time.

[00:05:13] Yes.

[00:05:14] And then it turns into a tick that he uses in all his movies.

[00:05:17] Oh.

[00:05:17] Not to look at things.

[00:05:19] Just to, because he knows it makes him look cute and vulnerable to go like, eh.

[00:05:23] And there's the famous story.

[00:05:24] Right.

[00:05:25] And it's the number one Clooney move is to look down.

[00:05:27] Oh.

[00:05:27] There's the famous story when they're making The Peacemaker, the inaugural film released

[00:05:31] by DreamWorks.

[00:05:32] DreamWorks.

[00:05:33] And his sort of first star blockbuster.

[00:05:36] And Spielberg had obviously been like part of the process of him getting on ER and whatever.

[00:05:41] Yes.

[00:05:41] And he's now on the set of like the first vehicle that a studio is banking on.

[00:05:46] Yeah.

[00:05:46] And Spielberg comes out from behind the monitor.

[00:05:49] That was pre-Badman?

[00:05:50] Yeah.

[00:05:50] It's this year before.

[00:05:52] Or maybe, yeah, maybe the same year.

[00:05:54] Anyway.

[00:05:55] But Spielberg comes out from behind the monitor and he puts his arm around him and Clooney

[00:05:59] thinks he's about to get complimented.

[00:06:02] Yeah.

[00:06:02] And Spielberg's like, I swear to God, you'll be a movie star if you can ever stop looking

[00:06:06] dead.

[00:06:07] You gotta get over this thing.

[00:06:09] He was wrong!

[00:06:09] And I think he knew like the backstory of it.

[00:06:12] But he was like, if you can just fucking nip this one tick in the bud.

[00:06:15] Never.

[00:06:16] You'll be a movie star.

[00:06:17] No, he's gonna look down for the rest of his damn life.

[00:06:19] Yeah.

[00:06:20] Please introduce our show.

[00:06:21] I have so much to say about this film.

[00:06:23] Really?

[00:06:24] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:24] Had you seen this before?

[00:06:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:26] Yes.

[00:06:27] I have seen this one before.

[00:06:28] Mid, where do you stand on it?

[00:06:31] Wait, did you-

[00:06:31] This is basically my favorite movie of all time.

[00:06:33] I would say it's definitely in my top ten.

[00:06:35] This was in David's Sight and Sound top ten list.

[00:06:37] That's true.

[00:06:38] It was on his ballot.

[00:06:39] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:39] Have we covered-

[00:06:41] I feel like we've limited this in the Elfett Man episode.

[00:06:43] We covered-

[00:06:44] We did a-

[00:06:45] I did have Alien on my Sight and Sound top ten.

[00:06:48] Yes.

[00:06:48] We did on Patreon.

[00:06:49] Which we did do on Patreon.

[00:06:51] And that is it.

[00:06:53] Yeah, right.

[00:06:53] Of my Sight and Sound top ten, it's the-

[00:06:55] This is the first film we're covering.

[00:06:57] Well, you're forgetting I Love You to Death.

[00:06:58] Yeah.

[00:06:59] That was in your ten.

[00:07:01] You were forgetting because it wasn't part of a proper director miniseries.

[00:07:03] It was Ben's Choice.

[00:07:04] You did a Kazdin then.

[00:07:05] We didn't.

[00:07:06] No.

[00:07:06] Ben sometimes just picks a movie that he thinks is elemental.

[00:07:10] That are usually kind of curated around what was on Comedy Central.

[00:07:15] Yes.

[00:07:15] So, the early 2000s.

[00:07:17] The summer and the afternoon.

[00:07:18] That's how I saw that movie.

[00:07:18] They're usually curated by like one of the most totemic films in American cinema.

[00:07:23] It's sort of his own Sight and Sound bound.

[00:07:25] Yeah.

[00:07:25] What films start with a freeze frame of a spinning pizza?

[00:07:28] Which that movie does.

[00:07:30] Blank check.

[00:07:31] Freeze frame.

[00:07:31] With Griffin and David.

[00:07:32] I haven't seen it in so long.

[00:07:34] Oh, it's normal.

[00:07:34] I'm David.

[00:07:36] It's normal.

[00:07:37] It's a normal movie.

[00:07:38] Aggressive.

[00:07:39] Oh, normal.

[00:07:39] Top to bottom.

[00:07:41] Tip to tail.

[00:07:42] Not to get-

[00:07:43] This flick is normal.

[00:07:44] Not to get derailed, but Ben just give me like one or two other ones that you've picked.

[00:07:49] Oh, oh, please.

[00:07:49] Oh, let's end this game.

[00:07:50] You want some Ben's choices?

[00:07:51] Yeah.

[00:07:52] The man who knew too little.

[00:07:54] Under Siege 2.

[00:07:56] Dark territory.

[00:07:57] We find out halfway through that episode that he had never seen Under Siege 1.

[00:08:01] He has now since seen it.

[00:08:02] I have.

[00:08:03] Pretty good.

[00:08:03] It's good.

[00:08:04] It's actually kind of better than 2.

[00:08:06] It's a lot better.

[00:08:06] It's one of his favorite movies of all time.

[00:08:08] No.

[00:08:09] We said, Ben, you could pick any movie.

[00:08:11] He said Under Siege 2 and then Al went into the conversation.

[00:08:14] We were like, is this what the character's like in the first one?

[00:08:17] He's like, I don't know.

[00:08:17] Wouldn't have never seen it.

[00:08:20] Fletch.

[00:08:21] Fletch.

[00:08:21] Fletch.

[00:08:22] Fletch.

[00:08:22] Yeah.

[00:08:23] Yeah.

[00:08:24] That's a solid choice.

[00:08:25] Street Fighter.

[00:08:26] Yeah.

[00:08:27] This?

[00:08:28] I'm on a roller coaster.

[00:08:29] Assassin's Creed.

[00:08:30] There've been two video game movies.

[00:08:32] You're a gamer, Leslie.

[00:08:34] Do you like Assassin's Creed?

[00:08:35] No.

[00:08:36] No.

[00:08:37] No.

[00:08:37] No.

[00:08:37] Well, here's what's fun.

[00:08:38] Neither does Ben.

[00:08:39] He never played the games before watching the movie.

[00:08:41] Much like Under Siege.

[00:08:42] I just got really into it and I was in a bad relationship and I just kind of kept rewatching in the middle of the night.

[00:08:49] And then I got like obsessed with it.

[00:08:50] He'd wake up and watch it again.

[00:08:51] He saw it like 30 times.

[00:08:53] Yeah.

[00:08:54] I bought him the steel book.

[00:08:55] It was a nice present.

[00:08:56] Wait, are we forgetting one?

[00:08:57] There's so many.

[00:08:58] What do you mean?

[00:08:58] Joe Dirt.

[00:08:59] Joe Dirt.

[00:09:01] Clifford, obviously.

[00:09:02] Oh, of course.

[00:09:03] Clifford.

[00:09:03] We've done it twice.

[00:09:04] We went back for seconds.

[00:09:05] Clifford 2, Hyper Clifford.

[00:09:06] Anyway, we're moving on.

[00:09:08] Look, that's what our show is sometimes, but what it's usually about is...

[00:09:12] It's usually a podcast about filmographies.

[00:09:14] Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks

[00:09:18] make whatever crazy passion products they want.

[00:09:20] Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes your failed pilot is retrofitted into a feature film

[00:09:26] that not only makes David Sims' ballot, but ranks number eight.

[00:09:31] That's a good question, actually.

[00:09:33] What do you mean like on the total sight and sound list?

[00:09:35] I believe on the last sight and sound ballot, it is insane to go like, what is this movie?

[00:09:39] David Lynch made a 90-minute pilot for ABC that they deemed un-airable.

[00:09:43] Sure.

[00:09:44] Oh, great. So it's lost to time?

[00:09:45] No.

[00:09:46] He got a French company to let him film an hour of new footage and edit the two things together.

[00:09:50] It was eighth in the critics poll.

[00:09:51] Oh, so the movie's a disaster?

[00:09:52] No.

[00:09:53] It's considered to be one of the ten greatest films of all time.

[00:09:56] That's true.

[00:09:57] Didn't they...

[00:09:58] Something...

[00:09:59] I don't know what it was, but something named it the greatest film of the 21st century.

[00:10:05] I think that is what it is.

[00:10:06] But shortly after it came out.

[00:10:08] Yeah.

[00:10:08] Like, it's just...

[00:10:09] In 2001.

[00:10:10] Yeah.

[00:10:11] It was like, this is it.

[00:10:12] This is the bar.

[00:10:13] I even...

[00:10:13] It is the highest ranked film of the 21st century on the sight and sound poll, right?

[00:10:17] I believe that.

[00:10:18] No, it's not.

[00:10:19] It's actually not.

[00:10:19] Fuck!

[00:10:20] What's higher?

[00:10:20] Who else is it?

[00:10:22] It's...

[00:10:22] In the Moon for Love is ranked higher.

[00:10:24] Okay.

[00:10:24] Fair.

[00:10:25] Which is another wonderful film.

[00:10:27] Yeah, fair.

[00:10:30] That is the only other one that's ranked higher though.

[00:10:33] Best American film in the 21st century.

[00:10:34] Wow.

[00:10:35] Well, I watched this movie last night with my friend.

[00:10:37] I've seen this movie...

[00:10:38] Oh, wait.

[00:10:38] Have you finished this spiel, please?

[00:10:40] This is a main series on the films of David Lynch.

[00:10:42] Thank you.

[00:10:42] Sure.

[00:10:42] We're blank check over here.

[00:10:44] I said all the other stuff.

[00:10:45] Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:45] Choo-choo.

[00:10:46] It's called Twin Pods Firecast with me.

[00:10:48] Sure.

[00:10:49] Whatever.

[00:10:50] Our guest today triumphantly returning to the show.

[00:10:53] Piping fists.

[00:10:54] Oh, I'm...

[00:10:54] Ready to fucking go.

[00:10:55] Oh, I'm ready.

[00:10:56] I'm very regretful that our Zodiac we only got...

[00:11:00] I feel like we barely touched the surface.

[00:11:02] Sure, but...

[00:11:03] Barely.

[00:11:03] I'll say this.

[00:11:05] We had like a little bit of a, like...

[00:11:08] There's a problem moment with the response to that episode where people were like, I'm so disappointed it's only two hours and 45 minutes.

[00:11:14] What went wrong?

[00:11:15] And we're like, how have we gotten ourselves into a gilded cage where if an episode is only a little above two and a half hours, people feel like we're ripping them off?

[00:11:26] Okay.

[00:11:26] I agree that I could talk about that movie for seven straight hours.

[00:11:29] For the same, same.

[00:11:29] But also, hey, motherfuckers, if an episode's longer than 90 minutes, that's a kindness.

[00:11:34] That's a...

[00:11:36] And usually they're way over that.

[00:11:38] I feel like...

[00:11:39] But I specifically feel like just a...

[00:11:44] This is why I had to come back and atone.

[00:11:45] Sure.

[00:11:45] I had to atone because...

[00:11:47] And you've cleared out your week.

[00:11:48] I cleared...

[00:11:49] I'm here.

[00:11:50] We're gonna be sleeping here tonight.

[00:11:52] You brought a sleeping bag.

[00:11:52] Yeah, exactly.

[00:11:53] Leslie did text me and, you know, like, hey, do you want to do...

[00:11:55] Oh, mall hunt drive.

[00:11:56] That sounds great.

[00:11:57] Yeah.

[00:11:57] When can you do it?

[00:11:58] You guys need like all day, right?

[00:12:00] And I was like, I mean, it doesn't hurt.

[00:12:02] Yeah.

[00:12:02] Yeah.

[00:12:03] Leslie Hadley, the acolyte of...

[00:12:07] Sleeping with other people, my favorite romantic comedy of the 21st century.

[00:12:10] Thank you.

[00:12:12] Uh, Bachelorette.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:14] Many other things.

[00:12:16] Mulholland Drive.

[00:12:17] A show...

[00:12:18] Crying out loud.

[00:12:19] That no one was ever gonna watch.

[00:12:21] Because they said, no thank you, this does not go to series.

[00:12:24] I just can't get...

[00:12:25] It is the weirdest...

[00:12:26] I know you can't get over it.

[00:12:28] That is the most Griffin thing to...

[00:12:29] I've never gotten over it.

[00:12:30] Okay, well...

[00:12:31] It is so bizarre that this is the process that leads to this movie and the movie turned out the way it did and has the reputation it does.

[00:12:37] Yeah.

[00:12:38] And I just want to state again, the only clear takeaway from this is that Moana 2 is gonna be the greatest film of the last 20 years.

[00:12:46] It's the first time since then that someone's finally gotten the idea of, we should replicate...

[00:12:51] Is there any other example?

[00:12:52] I can't think of one.

[00:12:54] TV pilot rejected...

[00:12:55] I think Moana 2 is the first time since Mulholland Drive that someone has finally had the bravery to say, fucking, these aren't episodes.

[00:13:03] Add some new shit, re-add it, put it in theaters.

[00:13:06] Sight and sound, here we come!

[00:13:09] Sight...

[00:13:10] Oh my god!

[00:13:11] Well, it's sort of interesting...

[00:13:13] Lone best director now.

[00:13:14] It's interesting to think about it with Twin Peaks, and we're gonna talk all about this.

[00:13:17] Yeah.

[00:13:17] But obviously with Twin Peaks, he makes...

[00:13:19] He does the same thing.

[00:13:20] He makes a 90 minute pilot.

[00:13:21] Mm-hmm.

[00:13:22] Uh, shows it to ABC, convinces them, they are suspicious, but are like, okay, let's do it.

[00:13:28] Yeah.

[00:13:28] But he did then shoot the quote unquote international version of Twin Peaks that has tacked on scenes that sort of explain what's going on in that you see Bob in a basement going like, ah, ah, ah, ah.

[00:13:40] I like being crazy!

[00:13:42] Yes.

[00:13:42] It doesn't explain much.

[00:13:44] Sure, yeah.

[00:13:44] But it's sort of what he does here.

[00:13:47] Yeah.

[00:13:47] Where he's like, well, let me tack on an act.

[00:13:49] Right.

[00:13:49] Uh, where I'm gonna go, where I go nuts.

[00:13:52] Mm-hmm.

[00:13:52] Uh, it's, I mean, I may be simplifying, but you know, I guess he thought like, well, I'll just do something like that again.

[00:14:00] You say already that you like this as much as any movie ever made.

[00:14:02] That it's on that tier of movies you can comfortably call your favorite movie, even if it's not, you know, strictly your number one.

[00:14:08] Yeah, and like, as a lesbian in Hollywood who suffers from suicide ideation, this is a biopic.

[00:14:14] You find it hard to relate.

[00:14:15] Oh, okay.

[00:14:15] Yeah, okay.

[00:14:16] No, this all happened to me.

[00:14:17] Yes.

[00:14:17] Yeah.

[00:14:18] Um, no, I was gonna say, we were talking about a couple days ago getting ready for this episode, and I was, much like I'm now doing on mic, just spinning out over like, I can't believe this is how this movie came into reality.

[00:14:30] And you were like, and the craziest thing is, you can so clearly tell while watching it what was part of the pilot and what he shot later.

[00:14:38] Well, I can't see that.

[00:14:39] I will reveal now.

[00:14:40] That's really interesting, because I can't.

[00:14:42] I'll say, I don't know if I could, I would nail it 100% of the time, but I was watching it and feeling like I could parse it out.

[00:14:48] And it's like, there's even just like the sense of like, some shit being shot a year later.

[00:14:53] I will just, I'm just gonna cut you off.

[00:14:55] Okay.

[00:14:55] I have seen the pilot.

[00:14:57] Wow.

[00:14:57] I found it and watched it this week.

[00:14:59] After long avoiding it.

[00:15:01] Yeah.

[00:15:01] Out of fear not of, just of spoiling my love of Mohandre.

[00:15:05] Sure.

[00:15:05] Yeah, yeah.

[00:15:05] Yeah.

[00:15:06] Um, uh, it's on the internet.

[00:15:07] You can find it if you look.

[00:15:09] Okay.

[00:15:09] You can go look at it.

[00:15:10] I didn't do the work.

[00:15:11] Uh, it's fine.

[00:15:12] I didn't want you to, honestly.

[00:15:13] Me neither.

[00:15:13] Thank God.

[00:15:13] Uh, and, uh, we will talk all about this.

[00:15:17] Okay.

[00:15:17] But the pilot is essentially the first, uh, is the first 90 minutes of Mahalo Drive.

[00:15:22] That was my guess.

[00:15:23] Without too much fucking around.

[00:15:25] Right.

[00:15:25] The only thing that is added is the Winkies scene, which is not in the pilot at all.

[00:15:29] The, uh, you know, diner.

[00:15:30] The Patrick Fischler?

[00:15:31] Yes.

[00:15:31] Okay.

[00:15:32] And the sex scenes and the nudity are not.

[00:15:34] No, that's what I'm saying.

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:34] When they find the body, like, uh.

[00:15:37] Oh, I see.

[00:15:37] Everything after the pilot.

[00:15:38] That is the end of the pilot.

[00:15:40] Yeah.

[00:15:40] The only thing that's really added is the Winkies scene.

[00:15:43] A couple things moved around.

[00:15:44] There are a couple extra scenes of Robert Forster in the pilot.

[00:15:46] Love to see him.

[00:15:47] Sure, yeah.

[00:15:48] But literally just him kind of doing like, well, looks like something's going on here.

[00:15:52] Where you're like, right, this is going to be, you know, a continuing storyline.

[00:15:55] That was my guess.

[00:15:57] And the visual language of the movie.

[00:15:58] Some scenes are shuffled around a little bit, but it changes a little bit after that point.

[00:16:01] Yeah.

[00:16:01] But also it's like, that's built into the text of the movie.

[00:16:05] That makes sense.

[00:16:06] Right?

[00:16:06] That like, the movie's vibe changes.

[00:16:08] The characters change.

[00:16:09] The look changes.

[00:16:10] I don't know if it's because I had no idea of the backstory the first time I watched the movie.

[00:16:15] Yeah.

[00:16:15] And the movie made such a deep impression on me.

[00:16:17] I watched it.

[00:16:18] I saw it in the theater.

[00:16:19] Same.

[00:16:19] It was the first David Lynch film I'd ever seen.

[00:16:22] Wow.

[00:16:22] Okay.

[00:16:23] Possibly so.

[00:16:24] And I was on Ecstasy.

[00:16:26] Cool.

[00:16:27] Not same.

[00:16:28] Now our paths diverge.

[00:16:30] And...

[00:16:30] Or I took Ecstasy right after.

[00:16:33] Sure.

[00:16:33] There was Ecstasy.

[00:16:34] Yeah.

[00:16:34] What do the kids call it now?

[00:16:36] Molly.

[00:16:36] Molly.

[00:16:37] I was doing Molly either during or after.

[00:16:40] No, no, but Leslie, we're similar ages.

[00:16:41] It's Ecstasy.

[00:16:42] Yeah.

[00:16:43] It pisses me off so much that people don't call it that anymore.

[00:16:45] I'm like, God damn it, I grew up with everyone calling it that.

[00:16:47] No, just kind of like...

[00:16:48] And it's a great name.

[00:16:49] Why are we brand?

[00:16:50] It's a great name.

[00:16:51] It's a great name.

[00:16:52] It's Ecstasy, right?

[00:16:54] No, but just say funny.

[00:16:55] What?

[00:16:55] It makes such an impression.

[00:16:57] It's just...

[00:16:58] I know it's a little different or whatever.

[00:17:00] It's different because the era of Ecstasy was more, it was pills.

[00:17:03] And a lot of times it was cut with like weird stuff.

[00:17:07] I know.

[00:17:07] I know.

[00:17:07] And it's actually better that nowadays MDMA is pure and it's referred to as Molly.

[00:17:13] I'm aware.

[00:17:14] I'm aware of what happened.

[00:17:15] And I grew up in the 90s where they were like, don't take Ecstasy.

[00:17:18] You'll die like this one kid did one time.

[00:17:21] Everyone else seems to do fine, but there was that one kid.

[00:17:24] Ecstasy and Dungeons and Dragons lead to death.

[00:17:26] Kind of?

[00:17:27] Yeah.

[00:17:27] There's one example and maybe the story doesn't show up.

[00:17:30] Anyway.

[00:17:30] Anyway.

[00:17:31] You saw...

[00:17:32] I was just saying it made such a deep, deep impression on me and I...

[00:17:35] When I was rewatching it for this, I felt like the best place to come from would be

[00:17:39] to really do the sense memory of this is what I felt the first time I watched it and then

[00:17:45] rewatching it for this, this is...

[00:17:48] But I had no idea the background of it.

[00:17:51] I don't think I found out...

[00:17:52] When you saw it the first time.

[00:17:53] Oh yeah.

[00:17:53] I don't think I found out about that until 10 years later.

[00:17:56] I was gonna say, I think the same with me.

[00:17:59] And when I heard it, I was like, that can't be true.

[00:18:02] Yeah.

[00:18:02] That does not process.

[00:18:03] I would have known that.

[00:18:06] And the movie would have felt that way.

[00:18:07] That's so funny that you guys...

[00:18:08] That's what's weird.

[00:18:09] I don't remember when I learned, but it certainly wasn't within the couple of years of the movie

[00:18:13] coming out and being fatted.

[00:18:15] Um...

[00:18:15] It was probably 10 years later.

[00:18:16] I was 15 years old.

[00:18:19] It's David's story time now for doing a Mulholland Drive episode.

[00:18:22] Wait, I...

[00:18:22] You were 15?

[00:18:23] All right, so you're a little older than me.

[00:18:25] Oh God.

[00:18:26] It's fine.

[00:18:27] Leslie, I'm 38.

[00:18:27] What are you like?

[00:18:28] It doesn't matter.

[00:18:29] Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:30] We're similar.

[00:18:31] I'm 21.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:33] Ben is five.

[00:18:35] No, I watched this on DVD with my mom when she rented it.

[00:18:38] Right.

[00:18:39] Probably a year later.

[00:18:40] Fuck yes.

[00:18:40] And that was like super cool when the sex scene happened and everything.

[00:18:45] Yeah.

[00:18:45] You were just kind of like white knuckling it.

[00:18:46] Yeah.

[00:18:47] On the armchair.

[00:18:48] The armrest got a big workout on that couch.

[00:18:51] I was 15 years old.

[00:18:53] If I had seen a Lynch film before this, that I actually do not remember.

[00:18:56] I saw a straight story, which I will have talked about in that episode.

[00:19:00] Yeah.

[00:19:00] But that was my parents being like, there's a David Lynch movie released by Disney playing

[00:19:05] at the Angelica that's appropriate to take kids to.

[00:19:07] That's good.

[00:19:08] We'll take the boys.

[00:19:08] Right.

[00:19:09] And you liked it.

[00:19:10] And I was like, well, that gives me no sense of who David Lynch is.

[00:19:15] Um...

[00:19:16] Like, I walked out my parents were just like...

[00:19:17] Was it Disney?

[00:19:18] It's a Disney film.

[00:19:19] Touchdown or Disney proper?

[00:19:20] It really says Walt Disney Pictures presents the straight story.

[00:19:24] Dear Lord.

[00:19:24] Yes.

[00:19:25] And they couldn't stop saying like...

[00:19:26] With the acolyte.

[00:19:27] With the acolyte.

[00:19:27] It's so weird that he made that.

[00:19:29] And I was like, what do you mean?

[00:19:30] That's the most normal movie I've ever...

[00:19:32] Ever seen.

[00:19:33] ...seen.

[00:19:33] Yeah.

[00:19:33] It's normal to a fault.

[00:19:35] So when I'm watching this a couple years later on DVD at that point, I probably knew

[00:19:40] him by reputation, but also was like, oh, this is the weird David Lynch shit everyone's

[00:19:44] talking about.

[00:19:44] Yes.

[00:19:44] Yeah, yeah.

[00:19:45] Same.

[00:19:45] Yeah.

[00:19:45] So I was 15 years old.

[00:19:47] I'm a budding cinephile.

[00:19:49] I certainly know I have to go see this new movie that won a prize at Cannes.

[00:19:52] Right.

[00:19:52] That is the new David Lynch film.

[00:19:54] It's on the awards.

[00:19:54] His first in four years.

[00:19:56] Prognosticator lists.

[00:19:57] Um, I know that it...

[00:19:59] I do know about the TV pilot thing.

[00:20:01] There is a...

[00:20:02] An article in Sight and Sound, which of course later I would rank this for, you know, as a

[00:20:08] working film critic.

[00:20:09] The dream of my life was to get to make it Sight and Sound Top 10, which I then got to

[00:20:12] do and I made a really boring one.

[00:20:14] Good job, me.

[00:20:15] Um, but I did put Mulholland Drive on it.

[00:20:16] David's process was borderline insane for developing movies.

[00:20:19] Um, I was like, hmm, boring, boring, boring, boring.

[00:20:22] Um, but, uh, and so I read Graham Fuller's piece.

[00:20:25] Graham Fuller is in the New York Film Critics Circle to this day, of which I am currently

[00:20:28] the chairman.

[00:20:29] Must be lost.

[00:20:30] I'm just...

[00:20:31] Fancy.

[00:20:31] Like, I read David Graham Fuller's piece on Sight and Sound, on Mulholland Drive

[00:20:35] in Sight and Sound 100 times.

[00:20:37] You're saying this, this movie represents a lot of full circle stuff of your entire

[00:20:41] relationship to film and film culture.

[00:20:43] I'm saying this is the tunnel opening for me.

[00:20:44] Yeah.

[00:20:44] For my life.

[00:20:45] I would say it is formative in my identity.

[00:20:48] Like, it...

[00:20:48] Exactly for me as well.

[00:20:49] ...seeped into my bloodstream, into the molecules of my body, in a way that I...

[00:20:54] And I am not a lesbian who works in Hollywood and had suicidal ideation.

[00:20:59] And nonetheless...

[00:20:59] Oh, humble brag.

[00:21:01] Nonetheless.

[00:21:02] Drag me, drag me.

[00:21:03] No, I'm just using your words against you.

[00:21:06] No, I...

[00:21:07] I went to see it at the Holloway Odeon with my friend Oliver Stevens.

[00:21:11] Shout out Ollie.

[00:21:12] Yeah.

[00:21:12] He's now Ollie Kinderberg actually.

[00:21:14] I should use his current name.

[00:21:16] Please.

[00:21:16] Yeah.

[00:21:17] Um...

[00:21:17] He did kind of a Mulholland Drive character name switch.

[00:21:19] He did.

[00:21:20] God bless.

[00:21:21] And, uh, I've never been so scared by a movie in my life and never will I be.

[00:21:25] Oh, same.

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:26] Because it's so elemental.

[00:21:28] Like, now I...

[00:21:28] Whatever.

[00:21:29] I go see Long Legs and I'm just like, all right.

[00:21:31] You know.

[00:21:32] We're too scared.

[00:21:32] I was.

[00:21:33] I was.

[00:21:33] I read your fucking byline.

[00:21:35] I was scared.

[00:21:35] Well, I didn't write that headline.

[00:21:36] Okay.

[00:21:36] But, uh, but, uh, but I was scared.

[00:21:38] But, you know, it's now...

[00:21:39] It's just funny for you to say that when this week...

[00:21:42] It's like, yes, Long Legs is scary.

[00:21:44] Yes, was the headline.

[00:21:44] Literally, the headline they gave David's review is like, it's true.

[00:21:48] Long Legs is as scary as everyone's telling you it is.

[00:21:51] And then David's here going like, yeah, Long Legs, whatever.

[00:21:53] I'm just saying, I'll never have that elemental fear that I was like, I don't know what's

[00:21:59] going to fucking happen in this movie.

[00:22:01] And where did this come from?

[00:22:02] Yeah.

[00:22:02] Yeah.

[00:22:03] Like, uh, like, not, not, scenes like the diner, of course, freaked me out.

[00:22:06] But then also just scenes where like, they're just in their house.

[00:22:09] Sure.

[00:22:10] And I'm just like, I don't know what's going to happen.

[00:22:13] Yeah.

[00:22:13] Is someone gonna come in?

[00:22:14] Are they going to...

[00:22:15] What's going to happen?

[00:22:16] I'll never have that feeling quite the same way.

[00:22:19] Yes.

[00:22:20] Uh, and it changed my life.

[00:22:22] And I owned the absolutely shitty, boulderized DVD that David Lynch put out.

[00:22:26] Leslie?

[00:22:27] What'd you say?

[00:22:28] The DVD.

[00:22:29] Did you have it on DVD?

[00:22:30] Yes, I did.

[00:22:30] I did.

[00:22:31] I was obsessed with his hatred for this DVD.

[00:22:33] Well, it's famously bad.

[00:22:35] It doesn't even have chapters.

[00:22:36] It's nothing.

[00:22:37] It's bad.

[00:22:38] Yeah.

[00:22:38] It's got those weird 10 clues.

[00:22:39] It's got the 10 clues, which are very annoying.

[00:22:41] Yeah.

[00:22:41] And people fixated a little too much on.

[00:22:43] I don't think they've made it.

[00:22:45] There are no special features.

[00:22:46] No special features.

[00:22:46] He censored the nudity.

[00:22:48] Yes.

[00:22:48] And there's no scene selection and he put in the fucking piece of paper.

[00:22:52] And it's obviously not great quality.

[00:22:53] This is when you know he's sick of...

[00:22:54] Is he okay?

[00:22:55] I think he was kind of...

[00:22:57] Whatever.

[00:22:58] He was dealing with the dawn of the digital era, you know, in his own way, I feel like.

[00:23:02] He's now kind of...

[00:23:03] I feel like...

[00:23:04] I want to say his Criterion discs don't have scene selection still.

[00:23:08] I think they do not.

[00:23:09] Which is fine.

[00:23:10] I mean, are you...

[00:23:11] I don't mind that.

[00:23:12] He's got a big, like, I don't want people jumping around.

[00:23:15] Yeah.

[00:23:16] Just think about it.

[00:23:17] Right.

[00:23:17] Like, even as I was watching it for this, I sort of started to go, okay, so if I could

[00:23:23] just get my thoughts together...

[00:23:25] Yeah.

[00:23:26] You know, this section and then this section.

[00:23:28] Sure.

[00:23:28] And I got so lost in trying to make the bullet point outline that I just brought my laptop

[00:23:34] this time.

[00:23:35] There it is.

[00:23:35] Because I was like...

[00:23:36] I just noticed you have your laptop in front of you.

[00:23:37] Yeah.

[00:23:38] I mean, Zodiac I know so well that I felt confident coming in without it.

[00:23:43] A far more linear movie that you can obsess over Robert Graysmith style and be able to

[00:23:47] recount how many steps it took to get from scene one to scene 15.

[00:23:50] Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:51] And break it up like in that LA confidential way of like, I know this section, then this section,

[00:23:56] then this section.

[00:23:56] Yeah.

[00:23:57] Yeah.

[00:23:58] But this is no way.

[00:24:01] No.

[00:24:01] So, but I know, I watched the DVD over and over and over again.

[00:24:04] I can read everyone's lines in this movie.

[00:24:05] And every time you're fuming, you're light knuckling.

[00:24:08] The quality of this is poor.

[00:24:10] Yeah.

[00:24:10] No, I was obsessed with it.

[00:24:12] No, I had the 10 clues pinned to my wall, just, I'm a little embarrassed to admit that

[00:24:15] now, but...

[00:24:16] Well, I had a big, um, I would steal, well not really steal, but like at the end of the

[00:24:21] day I would take Variety magazines home.

[00:24:24] And this is back when they were like, you know, humongous.

[00:24:26] Humongous.

[00:24:26] So all of the...

[00:24:27] They were basically wallpaper.

[00:24:28] They were basically, that's what I did.

[00:24:30] As I took out, no I did, I took out...

[00:24:32] Leslie?

[00:24:33] I took out the ads.

[00:24:34] Yeah.

[00:24:35] The FYC ads or whatever.

[00:24:36] Right.

[00:24:37] The full ads and just put them on my wall.

[00:24:39] I also did.

[00:24:39] And just, you know, it just became, I think I had like, not that many, maybe like three

[00:24:44] or four.

[00:24:45] Yeah.

[00:24:45] I had a lot more than that.

[00:24:46] But...

[00:24:47] You know what I would do?

[00:24:48] I had this FYC ad for Quentin Tarantino, best director for Kill Bill Volume One, which

[00:24:52] he got no Oscar nomination for, where that's him and his little...

[00:24:56] I thought she was nominated though.

[00:24:57] She was snubbed.

[00:24:59] The movie got zero noms.

[00:24:59] Zero noms.

[00:25:00] Insane.

[00:25:00] Across the two films, zero noms.

[00:25:02] And she wasn't?

[00:25:03] No.

[00:25:04] It was at a Golden Globe, is that what I'm thinking?

[00:25:05] Yeah, she got a Golden Globe nom.

[00:25:06] Yeah.

[00:25:07] And it's him doing this and Uma's like looking at him in her yellow tracksuit.

[00:25:11] I think about it.

[00:25:15] Oh, okay.

[00:25:15] Got it.

[00:25:15] That was the only one I heard about.

[00:25:17] Amelie.

[00:25:18] Amelie.

[00:25:19] I had a couple Amelies.

[00:25:20] 2001, baby.

[00:25:20] It was 2001, baby.

[00:25:22] That accordion music?

[00:25:23] Yeah.

[00:25:23] Come on.

[00:25:24] We had nothing else going on.

[00:25:25] I keep trying to explain this to people who are younger, much younger than we are.

[00:25:29] I'm like, you don't understand.

[00:25:32] We didn't have the internet.

[00:25:33] Yeah.

[00:25:34] Or it was the dawn of...

[00:25:35] It was an ancient internet.

[00:25:36] We didn't have anything to do.

[00:25:38] It was like that wheel with the stick.

[00:25:42] Like we had...

[00:25:43] That was what we were doing.

[00:25:44] This is what's interesting.

[00:25:44] My version of that was we got the fucking trades.

[00:25:49] Like my dad had Variety and Hollywood Reporter subscriptions.

[00:25:51] I would certainly pore over those FYC ads.

[00:25:54] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:55] I would love being like two page FYC spread for meet the parents.

[00:25:59] And my dad would be like contractual obligation.

[00:26:01] They don't think it's going to get anything.

[00:26:04] But they have to.

[00:26:05] Terry pulled up for supporting actresses and he's like, it's baked into her contract.

[00:26:08] Um, but I would never think to pull those out.

[00:26:11] New York Times would always do summer movie preview, fall movie preview.

[00:26:16] Oh God, remember that?

[00:26:18] In addition to the art section.

[00:26:19] Yeah.

[00:26:20] For those two seasons, they'd be like, here's its own thing.

[00:26:24] Yeah.

[00:26:25] That's full New York Times sized.

[00:26:27] Yeah.

[00:26:27] Posters for all the things that are coming out this summer with the dates.

[00:26:30] Oh, that was fun.

[00:26:31] Basically in chronological order.

[00:26:33] Yeah.

[00:26:33] And I would pull those out for whatever movies I was most excited for and put them all

[00:26:36] on my wall.

[00:26:37] Oh yeah.

[00:26:38] And to your point of the internet not existing, sometimes I'd be going through that and movies,

[00:26:43] giant blockbuster movies that were coming out two months later.

[00:26:47] Yeah.

[00:26:47] That would be the first time I heard about it.

[00:26:50] There you go.

[00:26:50] You're like, this movie cost a hundred million dollars.

[00:26:52] Yeah.

[00:26:53] I'm paying attention to everything.

[00:26:54] I'm watching Entertainment Tonight.

[00:26:55] I'm reading Entertainment Weekly.

[00:26:57] And the New York Times in May is telling me what is going to be the biggest movie in August.

[00:27:02] Like what the fuck is The Sixth Sense?

[00:27:04] Oh.

[00:27:04] Oh.

[00:27:05] That is a movie that does not exist with the internet.

[00:27:09] No.

[00:27:10] And that poster is nothing.

[00:27:11] That's a fair point.

[00:27:12] It just doesn't exist.

[00:27:13] It doesn't exist.

[00:27:14] Not in the same way.

[00:27:15] No.

[00:27:15] It just doesn't.

[00:27:15] Not as a way of like six weeks later people being like, I guess I should see that, huh?

[00:27:20] Yeah.

[00:27:21] Everyone's talking about it.

[00:27:22] Same thing with The Matrix, I think.

[00:27:23] Yeah.

[00:27:24] That was a weirdly, obviously it was a huge hit.

[00:27:27] Yeah.

[00:27:28] But both of those were weirdly word of mouth movies.

[00:27:30] And same year.

[00:27:31] 100%.

[00:27:32] Oh, 99.

[00:27:33] Right, right, right.

[00:27:34] And both of them have the same thing.

[00:27:35] Who's the fucking idiot who was like, 1999, the film, the year that changed film.

[00:27:42] Let's not say his name on mic.

[00:27:43] Oh, okay.

[00:27:44] Sorry.

[00:27:44] No, no, we can.

[00:27:45] No, please go ahead.

[00:27:45] We know this person.

[00:27:46] David thought about pitching that book.

[00:27:47] Is it?

[00:27:48] But it was an entertainment, wasn't it an entertainment weekly like?

[00:27:51] Yes.

[00:27:52] That's who did that.

[00:27:52] Yeah, I think he worked at it.

[00:27:53] I can't remember.

[00:27:54] Like 10 years later they were like, we're going to make this a thing.

[00:27:57] Yeah.

[00:27:57] But I feel like everybody already knew that.

[00:27:59] Yes.

[00:28:00] Yeah.

[00:28:00] That's why it was a good pitch for a book.

[00:28:02] And it's, well, and it's right.

[00:28:03] The thing with that year is just.

[00:28:04] You need to pitch something that lots of people know.

[00:28:06] Yeah.

[00:28:06] The cross section between things being like popular phenomenon and that culturally important.

[00:28:11] Like, yes.

[00:28:13] You had Star Wars and Blair Witch.

[00:28:14] You had The Matrix and The Sixth Sense and Fight Club and Magnolia.

[00:28:18] But like being John Mowling.

[00:28:19] Making $300 million and getting nominated for six Oscars.

[00:28:22] Sleepy Hollow.

[00:28:22] And being critically beloved.

[00:28:24] Good movie.

[00:28:25] Good ass movie.

[00:28:26] I just rewatched it.

[00:28:27] I was like, this fucking movie is so great.

[00:28:30] Both of those movies.

[00:28:31] Yeah.

[00:28:31] While being very mainstream blockbusters.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:34] Had this thing where they like come out, they open a little better than expected.

[00:28:37] Yeah.

[00:28:37] And then the marketing campaign is people saying to you, I can't even tell you what this is.

[00:28:42] You just have to take my word for it.

[00:28:44] Yeah.

[00:28:44] Just go.

[00:28:45] Yeah.

[00:28:46] Which is how Lynch movies usually tend to stick in the culture.

[00:28:50] Or Twin Peaks, people just going like, I can't explain this thing.

[00:28:53] You just gotta watch it.

[00:28:54] You just gotta go.

[00:28:54] That's how you, you know, as like a budding cinephile, usually most people watch Eraserhead.

[00:29:00] That's how people got into Twin Peaks at the time.

[00:29:02] Yes, Leslie, do you have a Lynch, a larger Lynch take or whatever?

[00:29:06] Like, you know, if Mulholland Drive was your first Lynch, like, do you like David Lynch?

[00:29:10] I love David Lynch.

[00:29:11] Have you seen all of his films?

[00:29:12] Yeah.

[00:29:12] I have not seen all of his films.

[00:29:14] I have oddly read a bunch about David Lynch.

[00:29:18] Like, Catching the Big Fish, Roar into a Dream, Lynch on Lynch.

[00:29:21] I find his personality to be sparkling.

[00:29:25] I mean, he's really the funniest.

[00:29:26] He's incredibly uncharismatic.

[00:29:27] Not hot and not cool.

[00:29:29] Oh my God, he's so hot.

[00:29:30] He's really hot.

[00:29:30] Jesus Christ.

[00:29:31] This is another thing we've talked about.

[00:29:33] All the arrows too.

[00:29:34] And Lynch.

[00:29:34] I'll do the most hands-on.

[00:29:35] Yes, you're right.

[00:29:36] But you're right.

[00:29:37] Lynch was always hot.

[00:29:38] Always.

[00:29:38] There's different kinds of Lynch or whatever, but he's hot in all types.

[00:29:42] He's aging like Paul Newman.

[00:29:44] It's that thing where you're like, every version of him.

[00:29:46] Yeah.

[00:29:47] He feels like this, this is, this is not quite right.

[00:29:51] And I think he's a superior artist.

[00:29:54] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:54] But he does feel like the cinematic version of Tom Robbins.

[00:29:59] In, in terms of-

[00:30:00] Interesting.

[00:30:01] Everything that happens feels like this, this stream of consciousness of him.

[00:30:06] Yeah.

[00:30:07] There, there isn't, there, there isn't sort of a, a set up payoff to, uh, still life with

[00:30:14] Woodpecker.

[00:30:15] Sure.

[00:30:15] And yet at the same time, you, once you finish it, you're, you have the experience of, oh,

[00:30:21] that was holistic.

[00:30:23] This is what's kind of-

[00:30:24] You, you, even though it felt like each step was so wild.

[00:30:27] Yes.

[00:30:28] But you had characters you could hold onto, you had themes you could hold onto, you were

[00:30:33] compelled by particular things.

[00:30:34] Yes.

[00:30:35] But then you're told other things that, or you're shown other things, I should say, for

[00:30:41] Lynch, that you're trying to place as, um, you're just trying to place.

[00:30:47] I guess you're trying, you're, I love Lynch because you are always, you're, and this is

[00:30:52] what I mean by Tom Robbins, it's like, you're always trying to find your footing.

[00:30:55] Yes.

[00:30:55] And yet you're con- you are taken care of.

[00:30:57] You, you don't feel completely abandoned.

[00:30:59] It is what is so bizarre about him.

[00:31:00] Yeah.

[00:31:01] I mean, like, I'm, I don't say this in the framework of me patting myself on the back and

[00:31:04] being like, what are you talking about?

[00:31:05] All these movies are easy to understand.

[00:31:06] I figured them all out.

[00:31:08] But it is fascinating for how much hand-wringing there is about interpreting meaning of shit

[00:31:12] in Lynch movies, right?

[00:31:13] Yeah.

[00:31:14] And this movie's Wikipedia page is the longest Wikipedia page I've ever seen for any movie.

[00:31:19] I didn't go to it.

[00:31:19] It has 20 subsections of analysis and theories and fucking whatever, right?

[00:31:23] Yeah.

[00:31:24] And I, I feel like was talked about so much as this puzzle box movie that's completely

[00:31:30] bleak.

[00:31:30] Like people are obsessed with trying to crack a thing to the point of putting the 10 clues

[00:31:35] in.

[00:31:35] And I, maybe it's just that like watching them in the context of this podcast and all

[00:31:40] that came around here.

[00:31:40] Where we are going chronologically and we're reading dossiers.

[00:31:42] You didn't just fall out of a coconut tree or anything.

[00:31:43] This is true.

[00:31:44] Yeah.

[00:31:45] I'm like, all of these movies are clearly very representative of things that he's going

[00:31:50] through in his life.

[00:31:51] Well, that's true.

[00:31:51] That's true.

[00:31:52] They're all so personal and they make sense in the chronological order of like, everything

[00:31:57] we're reading.

[00:31:58] Yeah.

[00:31:59] That's what her face is about.

[00:32:00] The, the.

[00:32:00] No, it's about a girl who lost her keys.

[00:32:02] I'm sorry.

[00:32:02] I have to make that joke with this one.

[00:32:04] Yeah.

[00:32:10] Wait, you've been saying that.

[00:32:11] It's like a joke.

[00:32:12] Like just being like movies, movie, movie, movie, easy to solve.

[00:32:15] That guy who lost his keys.

[00:32:16] David, that's David's joke about how people are like, um, I can explain eraser to you.

[00:32:21] Okay.

[00:32:21] The guy lost his keys by the end.

[00:32:22] You got his keys back.

[00:32:23] People try to read them.

[00:32:25] Like he's trying to transmit some weird.

[00:32:27] Now this is a clue.

[00:32:28] This is a clue.

[00:32:30] No, he's trying to work through his own shit.

[00:32:32] He's inviting you.

[00:32:33] This is what I mean.

[00:32:33] Like he's inviting you into his brain.

[00:32:35] Yes.

[00:32:36] He's not going to apologize in any way for it.

[00:32:39] It's going to be extremely confident.

[00:32:41] Yes.

[00:32:42] And he is gifting you the opportunity to have an experience.

[00:32:48] Right.

[00:32:49] Digesting it.

[00:32:50] And the miracle of him as an artist is that he does that in a way that is compelling to

[00:32:55] people who don't have the puzzle pieces of what's going on inside his head.

[00:33:00] Yeah.

[00:33:00] Or in his life.

[00:33:02] Yeah.

[00:33:02] That it can represent different things to different people and meaning and be gripping

[00:33:06] and be funny and be scary when he is also not really playing by any conventional rules

[00:33:12] of narrative cinema.

[00:33:13] I remember the other thing too is it's the word that keeps coming to mind is experiential because when I think of David Lynch, I don't have a beginning, middle and end narrative that comes

[00:33:30] to mind.

[00:33:31] What I think is I know exactly where I was sitting when I saw X scene.

[00:33:37] Sure.

[00:33:38] You know, like Laura Dern's monologue in Blue Velvet.

[00:33:43] Yeah.

[00:33:43] I know exactly where I was sitting.

[00:33:45] I know exactly the feeling.

[00:33:46] It's a physical sensation.

[00:33:47] Yeah.

[00:33:48] You're remembering as much as remembering the film.

[00:33:51] Exactly.

[00:33:52] Yeah.

[00:33:52] And you just like I remember watching that and going.

[00:33:55] How long has this been going on for?

[00:33:57] Sure.

[00:33:57] Has this been the whole movie?

[00:33:59] Right.

[00:33:59] Is the whole movie the scene?

[00:34:01] Yeah.

[00:34:01] Because I'm trying to.

[00:34:03] Usually with other films, you're you're watching the scene in relation to the scene you just saw.

[00:34:09] Mm hmm.

[00:34:10] Right.

[00:34:10] So there's this quote.

[00:34:12] I don't know who said it that in plays, the viewer is thinking this is what's happening now.

[00:34:18] And in movies, they're thinking what's going to happen next.

[00:34:21] Interesting.

[00:34:22] And I think David Lynch is you.

[00:34:24] You have to watch him with this is what's happening now.

[00:34:27] Yeah.

[00:34:27] You can't say while you're watching Laura Dern, you're not going.

[00:34:30] I wonder how.

[00:34:31] Where's this leading?

[00:34:32] Where's this leading?

[00:34:33] You just think, wow, what am I watching?

[00:34:35] Right.

[00:34:36] You're never going to predict where it's going.

[00:34:39] But I think that his thesis statement might be because Blue Velvet comes out of the disaster

[00:34:44] that's down.

[00:34:45] Yeah.

[00:34:45] So it does.

[00:34:45] I like this movie better.

[00:34:47] I consider this movie to be his masterpiece.

[00:34:49] Yeah.

[00:34:49] But I do understand that Blue Velvet is what cements him as him.

[00:34:54] Yes.

[00:34:54] Erase your head.

[00:34:56] He bursts on the scene.

[00:34:57] No, no, no.

[00:34:57] There's nothing controversial about saying Blue Velvet is not cements.

[00:34:59] Blue Velvet, I think if there were a thesis statement for him that he hasn't already said,

[00:35:04] I think he articulates his work extremely well.

[00:35:07] I agree.

[00:35:08] But I think that it's when Isabella Rossellini discovers Kyle MacLachlan in her closet.

[00:35:14] Yeah.

[00:35:15] And then she's like, take your clothes off or whatever.

[00:35:18] Yeah.

[00:35:18] And she says, what do you want?

[00:35:21] And he says, I don't know.

[00:35:22] Yeah.

[00:35:23] I feel like...

[00:35:24] This guy is like trying so hard to figure himself out and that's what all of these movies

[00:35:28] are.

[00:35:29] And that's what all of the movies are about.

[00:35:29] Yeah.

[00:35:29] And they're reflective of whatever the specific issue is he's dealing with at that point in

[00:35:34] time.

[00:35:35] Yeah.

[00:35:35] To some extent.

[00:35:36] Yeah.

[00:35:36] Right.

[00:35:38] I think with Mulholland Drive...

[00:35:40] It's about a woman who loses her keys.

[00:35:41] It's about a woman who loses her keys.

[00:35:43] No, I think...

[00:35:43] That's genuinely true though.

[00:35:44] It is.

[00:35:45] Yeah.

[00:35:46] But like, I do think there is...

[00:35:48] I don't think it is a...

[00:35:50] Say it, David.

[00:35:51] I'm so afraid of making like any blankety statements.

[00:35:53] But anyway, I think there is a...

[00:35:54] You are representing your personal relationship experiences.

[00:35:58] No, no, no, I'm not.

[00:35:58] I'm saying...

[00:35:59] Okay, then you're making a grand blanket statement.

[00:36:00] It's a fairly...

[00:36:01] Not straightforward, but like there is a way to read the plot of Mulholland Drive that's

[00:36:05] not that complicated.

[00:36:07] I would agree with you.

[00:36:08] It uses dream logic obviously.

[00:36:10] And that's the idea of what's going on here.

[00:36:11] There are other things that are a little more like, it's up to you.

[00:36:15] Sure.

[00:36:15] But I also think David Lynch very happily wants anyone to bring anything to these movies.

[00:36:21] Yes.

[00:36:21] And so...

[00:36:22] To all of his movies, right?

[00:36:23] Right.

[00:36:23] And so he's obviously certainly never gonna sit down and be like, the thing that's going

[00:36:26] on is this.

[00:36:27] Right.

[00:36:28] You never do that to an audience.

[00:36:30] Right.

[00:36:30] And if I went up to David Lynch and I was like, Mulholland Drive is about like something

[00:36:34] that happened to me, like, you know...

[00:36:35] He'd be thrilled.

[00:36:36] Exactly.

[00:36:37] He would be like, that's great, I'm sure.

[00:36:38] Or he would be like, you know, have you heard of Transcendental Meditation?

[00:36:41] I'd be like, yes, I have David.

[00:36:42] He would, absolutely.

[00:36:46] But I do feel like this film came out at the dawn of the internet.

[00:36:50] Yep.

[00:36:50] Not dawn, dawn, but you know...

[00:36:52] Oh, like, yeah.

[00:36:53] Where people would then go...

[00:36:54] I would say mainstream of the internet.

[00:36:56] Right.

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:57] I would type in Mulholland Drive.

[00:36:58] There is a website called Mulholland Drive.net that still runs, that has this kind of lovely

[00:37:03] early 2000s sort of aesthetic to it that has like theories and stuff that people were piling

[00:37:09] in.

[00:37:09] And there's a very famous Salon.com article that I remember I would read over and over

[00:37:12] again that was like trying to explain what's, you know, like...

[00:37:15] Yeah.

[00:37:15] It was the beginning of let's use the internet to collectively try and understand something

[00:37:20] that was confusing.

[00:37:22] A movie that made $7 million that was not like some sensation...

[00:37:27] It wasn't like Twin Peaks.

[00:37:28] But was an abstract piece of storytelling, not like aggressively abstract, but still abstract

[00:37:33] enough that broke into a mainstream sense.

[00:37:36] Yeah.

[00:37:36] And thus lots of people are like, what was that though?

[00:37:39] But here's what's fascinating about it to me is like Twin Peaks had that same cultural

[00:37:43] we are in on trying to game this out, right?

[00:37:47] Kind of thing.

[00:37:47] It did.

[00:37:48] But we're going to talk about Twin Peaks.

[00:37:50] I know.

[00:37:50] Yes.

[00:37:50] In a pre-internet era where the way that happens on a peer-to-peer level is so much more

[00:37:54] bizarre and circuitous and whatever.

[00:37:57] And that's a phenomenon that stretches out but also like rises and falls really quickly.

[00:38:01] And then as we've discussed, the stuff between Twin Peaks and this movie is largely reviled.

[00:38:09] It is.

[00:38:09] He goes through this period...

[00:38:10] That's true.

[00:38:10] Where people are like, he's cooked, he's gone too far up his own ass.

[00:38:15] Yes.

[00:38:15] Over on Lynch.

[00:38:16] And they're mad at him because...

[00:38:19] I mean, they...

[00:38:19] Why are they mad at him?

[00:38:20] Just, I mean, I'm talking about people in the 90s and the broadest brush.

[00:38:23] But I think people felt betrayed by Twin Peaks.

[00:38:26] You gave us a beautiful thing and then you killed it.

[00:38:27] You destroyed it.

[00:38:28] When you break through with a show that has such a wide cultural, you know, acknowledgement

[00:38:34] or whatever, and people are like, but you fucked that up.

[00:38:37] Like, I didn't like that Twin Peaks like didn't end how I wanted it to or didn't keep going

[00:38:42] how I wanted it to or whatever.

[00:38:43] What about the...

[00:38:44] I mean, listen, echoing a particular fan base, I may say, the first season, why didn't you

[00:38:51] give us the answer?

[00:38:53] Sure.

[00:38:53] You know, second season, you gave us the answer, we didn't like it.

[00:38:56] Right.

[00:38:56] Go fix the answer.

[00:38:57] Go fix the answer.

[00:38:58] You're talking about young Sheldon fans, right?

[00:39:00] When you're talking about which fan base?

[00:39:01] I'm sorry, the Sheldonverse.

[00:39:03] We need closure.

[00:39:05] Here's the closure.

[00:39:06] How did he get older?

[00:39:07] When, as time passes, people grow up.

[00:39:09] I don't like that answer.

[00:39:11] Do we even have a lore director?

[00:39:13] Sheldon wouldn't do that, even if he were young.

[00:39:17] Okay, fine.

[00:39:18] All right, fine.

[00:39:18] Sheldon discovers an autism cube when he's 10 and that's okay.

[00:39:22] What do you want from me?

[00:39:23] Autism cube.

[00:39:24] I just like the idea that someone's like, explain why he's like that.

[00:39:27] I think some of the Sheldon legends should count.

[00:39:30] Work them back in.

[00:39:32] Reclaim Sheldon legends.

[00:39:33] I do think that is a sign of a fan base that has gone on too long and needs to be nuked

[00:39:38] from orbit where they're like, I know you removed all this from canon.

[00:39:42] Yeah.

[00:39:42] But I liked that one and enough of us do that you've got to bring it back.

[00:39:46] And they're like, all right, bring it back.

[00:39:48] All right, we're going to take that one thing.

[00:39:50] Honestly, in my opinion, Timothy Zahn wrote Sheldon better than anyone else.

[00:39:54] I don't even think Chuck Lorre really got, he created Sheldon by accident.

[00:39:59] He never really got Sheldon.

[00:40:00] Mulholland Drive.

[00:40:01] Mulholland Drive.

[00:40:01] Sorry.

[00:40:02] Mulholland Drive starts with Tony Krantz.

[00:40:04] My point I was going to make.

[00:40:05] Just to finish this off.

[00:40:06] You love for me to do one sentence of the thing.

[00:40:08] And then break in with some other shit.

[00:40:10] It's funny.

[00:40:11] I'm not helping.

[00:40:12] Thank you.

[00:40:13] No, it's just this film when this comes out.

[00:40:16] And as you said, in a much smaller way, 7 million domestic, one Oscar nomination, what

[00:40:20] have you.

[00:40:20] It's not a cultural phenomenon on the level of Twin Peaks crossing over the mainstream.

[00:40:24] The first time in 10 years that the public was like, let's lean in, crack our knuckles

[00:40:28] and try to figure this thing out.

[00:40:30] People were ready for Lynch to be back.

[00:40:32] Yes.

[00:40:32] They were ready.

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:33] It's true.

[00:40:33] It helps fuel this to be like, there's now a dialectic going on between the viewers of

[00:40:39] the movie.

[00:40:40] Yeah.

[00:40:40] And this other section of like pop culture and the text itself.

[00:40:44] Tony Krantz is a CIA agent.

[00:40:47] Okay.

[00:40:47] He is instrumental to the creation of Twin Peaks in that he sort of brings Lynch to ABC

[00:40:52] and somehow makes that work, which obviously must have been a little complicated.

[00:40:57] You think?

[00:40:59] Supposedly Lynch recounts at one point that he has this idea for Audrey Horn's character

[00:41:07] in Twin Peaks, Sherilyn Fenn's character, Audrey Horn, that one day she'll have like a storyline

[00:41:15] where she goes to Los Angeles and starts a movie career and will make a movie about it.

[00:41:19] Interesting.

[00:41:20] Well, kind of like, because there's been a lot of talk over the years.

[00:41:23] Not another show.

[00:41:24] Right.

[00:41:24] He was like, we'll do like a Audrey Horn movie that'll be about her trying to make it in show

[00:41:30] business or we'll do a TV pilot or something.

[00:41:33] Or we'll do a TV pilot or something.

[00:41:33] Yes, exactly.

[00:41:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:41:35] Mark Frost remembers something similar.

[00:41:38] Like we were maybe going to do a spinoff show.

[00:41:39] We were maybe going to do a TV movie.

[00:41:41] We were maybe going to do a pilot.

[00:41:42] Who knows?

[00:41:42] And it's one of those like classic, like, we wrote on a napkin.

[00:41:45] It's an idea.

[00:41:45] We wrote on a napkin.

[00:41:46] They may not have been written on a napkin.

[00:41:48] They disgust it.

[00:41:50] Sherilyn Fenn, who is, I will say, insane.

[00:41:54] So she can't be completely trusted.

[00:41:58] It confirms this like, yes, this was something they were cooking up.

[00:42:02] Like I would go to California.

[00:42:04] Uh huh.

[00:42:04] I'm sorry to call her insane, but check out her Instagram.

[00:42:08] It's insane.

[00:42:10] David Lynch says, I don't know about that.

[00:42:12] All right.

[00:42:13] Well, thank you, David Lynch.

[00:42:14] The answer is it's probably somewhere in the middle.

[00:42:16] Right.

[00:42:16] You know, like, I don't know.

[00:42:17] Someone discussed this.

[00:42:18] However, of course, Twin Peaks falls apart on the air and hotel room kind of turned David

[00:42:24] Lynch against TV for a while.

[00:42:26] Sure.

[00:42:27] Right.

[00:42:27] You said on the air?

[00:42:28] On the air.

[00:42:29] Yeah.

[00:42:29] And hotel room.

[00:42:30] Have you ever seen on the air?

[00:42:31] I haven't.

[00:42:31] It is so bizarre in how much it isn't weird.

[00:42:36] Like that's the thing.

[00:42:37] You're watching it and you're just like, is this like sarcastic?

[00:42:42] Are you?

[00:42:43] I don't think it's bad.

[00:42:45] I think that.

[00:42:46] Okay.

[00:42:46] I was going to go on a tangent.

[00:42:47] I'm not going to do it.

[00:42:48] I want to make an old timey sitcom.

[00:42:51] And then he just does that.

[00:42:53] Um, there's a, there's a, there's Lynch is very attracted to the quote wholesome.

[00:42:58] Yes.

[00:42:58] He really likes that.

[00:43:00] You know, it's so it makes sense.

[00:43:02] It makes sense that he would do that.

[00:43:03] Are those H HBO is hotel room.

[00:43:06] H HBO is hotel room.

[00:43:08] On the air.

[00:43:09] On the air was also ABC.

[00:43:10] Am I wrong?

[00:43:11] Was on ABC in the summertime.

[00:43:14] Yeah.

[00:43:14] In 1990.

[00:43:14] It was a real burn off.

[00:43:15] Which is right when you know a network is confident.

[00:43:19] Yeah.

[00:43:19] Your show will be debuting in July.

[00:43:21] Um, so, but however, uh, Krantz and who now works at Imagine Television, uh, the spinoff

[00:43:28] of, uh, Ron Howard and Brian Grazer's show.

[00:43:31] Water be dropping.

[00:43:33] Yeah.

[00:43:33] Ripple effects.

[00:43:35] Imagine.

[00:43:36] Um, is still like, no man, you should make another TV show.

[00:43:40] Like, you know, it's over the years, just kind of like, come on, any ideas, throw in

[00:43:45] peanuts at us.

[00:43:45] That was your biggest success.

[00:43:46] Yeah.

[00:43:47] Why wouldn't you try to do that again?

[00:43:48] Lynch, of course says, yeah, here's my perfect idea for a movie.

[00:43:51] No, I'm joking.

[00:43:52] He says, I picture Mulholland drive at night, you know, classic David Lynch.

[00:43:56] Sure.

[00:43:56] I have one thought.

[00:43:56] He doesn't even have a story.

[00:43:58] I have one thought.

[00:43:59] Right.

[00:43:59] And that's like.

[00:44:00] It's a road of mystery and danger.

[00:44:02] Sure.

[00:44:02] But isn't blue velvet like the ear?

[00:44:05] Yeah.

[00:44:05] It's the first idea.

[00:44:06] Blue velvet is the ear and I've always wanted to, uh, crawl into a woman's closet and wash

[00:44:10] her dress.

[00:44:11] I'm not joking.

[00:44:12] Yeah.

[00:44:12] That's how he said that.

[00:44:14] He said that?

[00:44:14] He pitched it to execs when they said you got anything else.

[00:44:18] What happens next?

[00:44:19] I crawl into a woman's closet and then she catches me.

[00:44:22] In the framework of, do you have any movie ideas?

[00:44:24] Honestly, that's hot.

[00:44:25] They were like, do you have any ideas?

[00:44:26] He's like, I have always personally.

[00:44:29] Uh, but also lost highway is like, what if you got a videotape of yourself?

[00:44:35] Exactly.

[00:44:35] Yeah.

[00:44:36] That was the whole fucking thing.

[00:44:37] And this was the street sign, right?

[00:44:39] It's a mysterious road.

[00:44:40] Yeah.

[00:44:40] It's rural in many places.

[00:44:42] It's curvy.

[00:44:43] It's two lanes.

[00:44:43] It feels old.

[00:44:44] You feel the history of Hollywood on that road.

[00:44:46] Now I have only driven a molehound drive once or twice.

[00:44:48] It does.

[00:44:49] When I was on it, I am like, it is fucked up that this road exists.

[00:44:52] I don't know.

[00:44:53] I mean, you probably, have you ever lived in LA?

[00:44:55] I have a, I lived in LA for, uh, uh, ballparking three years.

[00:45:01] Okay.

[00:45:02] And I gotta say, I'm excited to get into it because he really pinpoints particular LA,

[00:45:08] like corners of LA.

[00:45:09] Sure.

[00:45:09] Right.

[00:45:10] And they all amplify the characters so much.

[00:45:14] Have you ever driven on molehound drive?

[00:45:16] Well, I don't drive famous.

[00:45:19] I've definitely driven up there and there is this like, it's, it's, especially at night,

[00:45:22] there's this sort of like dreamy feeling to it.

[00:45:26] Yes.

[00:45:26] And it's kind of cool.

[00:45:27] And it's dangerous.

[00:45:28] Yes.

[00:45:28] And you feel like, I'm gonna kill someone if someone's gonna kill me.

[00:45:32] It's the fury road.

[00:45:33] But then, um, during the daytime, it is this, it has this, like, if I'm remembering correctly,

[00:45:40] like one side of it is this kind of like Burbank-y, we're in the desert.

[00:45:44] And then the other side of it is like the richest of the rich.

[00:45:47] Yes.

[00:45:47] Uh, right.

[00:45:49] I mean, look, it's like, it's like fucking David Lynch deserts.

[00:45:52] He designed a road to metaphorically represent his entire relationship to the entertainment industry.

[00:45:58] That's actually true.

[00:45:59] You look at a map of LA and you're like, here is LA.

[00:46:01] And then here is, you know, whatever, you know, the North Hollywood and Van Nuys and all this stuff.

[00:46:05] And it's like in the middle there are these mountains.

[00:46:07] You're like, oh, okay, mountains.

[00:46:08] And then there's just the map just has this one road that's like.

[00:46:11] Yeah.

[00:46:11] And you're like, what's that?

[00:46:12] Like Mulholland Drive.

[00:46:13] And you're like, okay.

[00:46:14] It looks like you're driving through the Pyrenees.

[00:46:16] Like it just, anyway.

[00:46:17] I want to make it clear.

[00:46:18] I'm not making an empirical slam on the city that many people live in and love, but much

[00:46:24] to the point of what you're saying, I watched this movie and I'm like, this is why I don't

[00:46:28] live in LA.

[00:46:29] It's, I'm like, it's very, it is.

[00:46:31] I think it's very specific to like specifically a certain type of person who wants to work in

[00:46:36] the entertainment industry and doesn't like specifically the culture of living in that

[00:46:41] geographic place while trying to do this type of work.

[00:46:44] Yeah.

[00:46:44] And the way the city is built around it.

[00:46:46] Well, and the roads are squiggly line.

[00:46:48] Yeah.

[00:46:48] But I watched this movie.

[00:46:49] I'm like, yeah, yeah, David, I fucking get it.

[00:46:52] That's how I feel too.

[00:46:53] I think that all of this feels weird.

[00:46:54] It's one of those movies that I think people love to say, you know, it's a love letter

[00:46:59] to this.

[00:47:02] Maybe they don't say love letter, but it's a twisted love letter.

[00:47:05] It's a twisted love letter to the city.

[00:47:07] It's, it's, um, Los Angeles plays itself.

[00:47:10] Sure, sure.

[00:47:11] And I'm like, no, no, no, it is Los Angeles.

[00:47:13] Yes.

[00:47:13] Right.

[00:47:13] It's not.

[00:47:14] He's actually not making any value statement on it.

[00:47:17] He's not making any statement on it.

[00:47:19] Right.

[00:47:19] That's it.

[00:47:20] You know what the love letter to Los Angeles is?

[00:47:22] The fact that he still lives there.

[00:47:25] I thought that.

[00:47:26] Right.

[00:47:26] When I was reading the book before.

[00:47:28] That's something like the movie's saying, this is a movie about him being terrified by the

[00:47:31] city and yet he stays.

[00:47:32] And yet he stays.

[00:47:33] He doesn't have to.

[00:47:33] He's like, I moved there in the middle of the night.

[00:47:35] Yeah.

[00:47:36] I woke up the next morning and it was so bright.

[00:47:39] Right.

[00:47:39] Just like loved it.

[00:47:40] He never left.

[00:47:41] Right.

[00:47:41] And Twin Peaks, not Twin Peaks, but Twin Peaks to an extent, I was going to say Blue Velvet,

[00:47:45] but like the suburban section of his work is like, this is the environment in which I

[00:47:51] feel the most comfortable.

[00:47:52] I genuinely get pleasure in that sense of security.

[00:47:55] Yeah.

[00:47:55] From this type of attitude, culture, look, vibe, whatever.

[00:48:00] And I acknowledge there's stuff right under the surface.

[00:48:04] Right.

[00:48:04] Right.

[00:48:05] Versus this movie is him being like, this is fundamentally alien to me.

[00:48:10] Yeah.

[00:48:11] Yeah.

[00:48:11] And I choose to stay here.

[00:48:13] Yeah.

[00:48:13] But all of this is weird.

[00:48:14] This business is weird.

[00:48:15] The city is weird.

[00:48:16] People are weird.

[00:48:17] The people in it are weird.

[00:48:18] Yeah.

[00:48:18] I'll say something else.

[00:48:19] I think David Lynch is kind of weird.

[00:48:21] Well, he would disagree.

[00:48:22] In August 1998, straight stories in pre-production, Lynch and Krantz pitch Mulholland Drive to Jamie

[00:48:28] Tarsus, the then somewhat legendary head of ABC.

[00:48:32] Inspiration for Amanda Peet's character on Studio 60.

[00:48:35] A great character with the Tron.

[00:48:38] Basically pitches them.

[00:48:39] Passed away recently, kind of tragically.

[00:48:41] Yes.

[00:48:41] A little too young.

[00:48:41] I thought you meant Amanda Peet and Knight.

[00:48:43] No, we still have her.

[00:48:44] Amanda Peet's still alive.

[00:48:45] Amanda Peet's Studio 60 character canonically dead.

[00:48:47] She died filming season seven of the UN or whatever the show is that she's, I'm joking.

[00:48:52] She committed seppuku live during a broadcast of Studio 60.

[00:48:56] Will someone please end this?

[00:48:58] Please, please stop right, guys.

[00:48:59] Bradley Whitford chops her head off.

[00:49:01] She's pregnant with Bradley Whitford's 10th accidental child.

[00:49:04] Okay, alright.

[00:49:05] David.

[00:49:05] Yes.

[00:49:06] We are so thrilled that this episode is brought to you by our friends at Regal Cinemas.

[00:49:13] Regal.

[00:49:13] The movies.

[00:49:15] The theaters.

[00:49:16] The kings of movies.

[00:49:17] The kings.

[00:49:18] The crown is atop their head.

[00:49:20] Yep.

[00:49:20] When it comes to theatrical exhibition.

[00:49:22] Yeah, you probably have a Regal somewhere near you.

[00:49:25] Yeah, they're all over this beautiful country of ours.

[00:49:27] They're all over.

[00:49:28] And here's the thing in particular that's great.

[00:49:32] Regal Unlimited.

[00:49:33] Okay?

[00:49:34] Because Regal Unlimited is the all-you-can-watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself

[00:49:38] in just two visits.

[00:49:39] You can see any standard 2D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions.

[00:49:44] And with Regal Unlimited, you won't just save money on tickets.

[00:49:47] You also save on snacks.

[00:49:48] You get money off the snacks.

[00:49:49] It's true.

[00:49:50] Members get 10% off all non-alcoholic concession items.

[00:49:53] You just open your app to see the movie you want to see.

[00:49:57] Pick.

[00:49:57] You pick your ticket, your seat, and then you go see it for free.

[00:50:02] It's like a convenience charge.

[00:50:04] That's it.

[00:50:04] If you see two movies this month, you've made back the purchase.

[00:50:08] It pays for itself immediately.

[00:50:09] And if you're a listener of this podcast, there's a reasonable chance you see more

[00:50:11] than two movies in theaters per month.

[00:50:13] The thing I love about it is it also encourages you to go to see movies more because you're

[00:50:18] like, eh, you know, I'm already an Unlimited member.

[00:50:20] Like, eh, I'm on the fence about seeing that in theaters.

[00:50:22] I'm just gonna go.

[00:50:23] Can we talk about some things happening in the world of movie theaters this November?

[00:50:27] Yeah, what do we got?

[00:50:28] 2024, Year of Our Lord.

[00:50:29] You saw Conclave?

[00:50:30] Yeah.

[00:50:31] It's a rollicking good time.

[00:50:32] We had a lot of fun.

[00:50:33] Glossy grown-up thriller.

[00:50:35] Yeah.

[00:50:35] As our friend John Hodgman said, a great movie about doors.

[00:50:40] That was his line.

[00:50:41] I give him full credit.

[00:50:42] And a movie with an incredibly normal ending you need to see for yourself.

[00:50:47] Is that fair to say?

[00:50:48] Absolutely.

[00:50:48] It's a movie that gets a great response from a crowd going through the sort of rollercoaster

[00:50:54] arc of what is...

[00:50:55] Whoa!

[00:50:56] Yes.

[00:50:56] But November has lots of big movies, Griff.

[00:50:58] Sure.

[00:50:59] Valiator 2.

[00:50:59] You've seen?

[00:51:00] Wicked.

[00:51:01] I have seen Valiator 2.

[00:51:02] Lots of fun.

[00:51:02] Denzel Washington having a ball?

[00:51:04] He's in it?

[00:51:05] I hear he kind of just disappears into the tapestry.

[00:51:08] Moana 2, right?

[00:51:09] Like, this is like, you know, Thanksgiving's approaching.

[00:51:12] There's all kinds of big stuff to see.

[00:51:14] We're gonna get wicked.

[00:51:16] We're gonna get glicked.

[00:51:17] Yeah.

[00:51:17] Is that how it's said?

[00:51:18] I see it typed out.

[00:51:19] People talk about getting glicked.

[00:51:20] Oh, because it's like Gladiator 2.

[00:51:22] It's just not very clean.

[00:51:23] Well...

[00:51:24] Look, maybe you're someone who wants to catch Robert Zemeckis' Here and it's Final Days playing

[00:51:30] in theaters and you're like, do I pay full ticket price to see this movie?

[00:51:33] Why don't you sign up for Regal Unlimited and just use one of your slots on that?

[00:51:37] Covered it on our podcast if you want to catch up with it.

[00:51:39] It's a perfect use of Regal Unlimited.

[00:51:41] Now listen...

[00:51:42] Anora going wide.

[00:51:43] That's true.

[00:51:44] Spreading across this great country.

[00:51:45] A film we both love.

[00:51:46] When you join Regal Crown Club, which is free to join, right?

[00:51:49] That's their free membership program you can upgrade to Unlimited on top of that.

[00:51:52] Right.

[00:51:52] For Regal Crown Club, you're gonna get concession upgrades.

[00:51:56] You're gonna get movie tickets and exclusive prizes and stuff when you earn points.

[00:51:59] You get discounts on certain days, benefits on certain things.

[00:52:02] You're collecting points every time you spend.

[00:52:04] On Mondays, you get 25% off candy.

[00:52:06] Tuesdays, you get 50% off popcorn.

[00:52:08] Yeah.

[00:52:08] Discount of movie tickets with the Regal Value Days program.

[00:52:11] They got all kinds of stuff.

[00:52:12] On your birthday, you get a free popcorn.

[00:52:13] And here's the thing I love.

[00:52:14] If you're like me, and I think a good percentage of our listeners are,

[00:52:18] those points can be cashed in a number of ways.

[00:52:21] You can get free movie tickets.

[00:52:22] You can get upgrades on sizes of soda or popcorn or whatever it is.

[00:52:26] A free concession item entirely.

[00:52:28] You can also go to their website.

[00:52:29] Yeah.

[00:52:30] And spend your points on some fun promotional movie memorabilia.

[00:52:35] Yeah.

[00:52:36] They'll throw weird stuff up there.

[00:52:37] I certainly got a lot of our Avatar cup toppers.

[00:52:40] They also have sweepstakes you can join with points.

[00:52:43] A lot of posters.

[00:52:45] All this stuff is very exciting.

[00:52:46] Yeah.

[00:52:47] It's on its own.

[00:52:48] It is.

[00:52:49] But if you sign up now and use the code blank check.

[00:52:52] That's us.

[00:52:53] That's us.

[00:52:54] You will get 10% off your three month subscription.

[00:52:58] So not only do you already get this great deal,

[00:53:00] you get 10% off it and you get to support the show.

[00:53:02] Yeah.

[00:53:03] It's win, win, win.

[00:53:04] Now go to the Regal app and click the unlimited banner.

[00:53:07] Follow the instructions there to sign up and enter the promo code blank check

[00:53:11] when prompted to receive your discount.

[00:53:13] Just to tell you how it works.

[00:53:15] Yeah.

[00:53:15] We're making it as simple as we can.

[00:53:17] And boy, once you've done the sign up, does it make life a lot easier for regular theater goingers.

[00:53:23] Like us.

[00:53:24] Yes.

[00:53:24] Can't wait to see Red 1 and 4DX.

[00:53:27] They pitch essentially two pages, they say, which is basically like a woman who's trying to be a star in Hollywood finds herself becoming like a detective.

[00:53:34] Yeah.

[00:53:34] Ticking into an underworld.

[00:53:36] Jamie Tarsus, somewhat surprised to their surprise is like you have $4.5 million.

[00:53:40] Jesus Christ.

[00:53:41] And can make a pilot.

[00:53:42] They get another two.

[00:53:43] Does she approve at 90 minutes?

[00:53:45] She approves essentially.

[00:53:46] Whatever it takes.

[00:53:47] They get a little bit more money from Touchstone TV.

[00:53:49] And so they basically approve a $7 million budget for a TV pilot, basically feature length, 90 minutes.

[00:53:56] They do demand.

[00:53:57] 25 years ago at a time where no TV cost that much per episode.

[00:54:00] That is crazy.

[00:54:01] They demand the closed ending.

[00:54:03] Closed ending.

[00:54:03] Yeah.

[00:54:03] For the international.

[00:54:04] Sort of the same deal with Twin Peaks of like you need to produce a cut that we could maybe like sell in Europe as a movie.

[00:54:09] Okay.

[00:54:10] Uh, all right.

[00:54:12] Uh, let's do it.

[00:54:13] Uh, Krantz hooks up with, uh, David Lynch with Joyce Eliasson, I want to say her name is.

[00:54:18] Uh, who is an experienced, she did the Jackson's mini series if anyone remembers it with Angela Bassett, which is really good actually.

[00:54:26] Uh, but kind of like an experienced TV hand.

[00:54:28] Kind of the same thing as Mark Frost.

[00:54:29] Like here's someone who can manage a lot of this sort of day to day TV shit.

[00:54:34] Think about, it must've been such a weird moment to be like, look, we're 10 years out basically from Twin Peaks, right?

[00:54:42] Yeah.

[00:54:42] So now there's enough distance that everyone's calmed down a little from their anger over how it collapsed.

[00:54:49] Mm.

[00:54:50] And everyone's starting to feel like, like it's an X.

[00:54:54] Yes.

[00:54:54] Yeah.

[00:54:54] If we give it another try tomorrow, would it work?

[00:54:56] Would it work?

[00:54:57] Yeah.

[00:54:57] So they're probably like, look, we don't know where Twin Peaks came from last time.

[00:55:00] You got to do your David Lynch thing, but everyone's also like, let's keep a little bit more attention on this.

[00:55:06] Yeah.

[00:55:07] Um, let's put some like steady hands around him with good taste.

[00:55:10] Exactly.

[00:55:11] Yeah.

[00:55:12] Uh, David meets with her a few times and they don't get along part ways.

[00:55:15] He writes the whole thing himself.

[00:55:16] Uh, he delivers the screenplay to ABC.

[00:55:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:55:19] They order the pilot.

[00:55:21] Okay.

[00:55:21] So it's not like he fucking comes out of nowhere with the thing he makes.

[00:55:25] No.

[00:55:25] Uh, they have a, they have six pilots ordered.

[00:55:30] They only have room for about three or four, but nonetheless, this is strong contender.

[00:55:34] The 99 or 2000 season.

[00:55:36] Uh, this would be, this, I think this would have gone to air in 99 probably.

[00:55:40] Um, a few other projects that Lynch passed on or sort of, you know, considered at the time,

[00:55:46] American Beauty.

[00:55:47] Yep.

[00:55:47] The Ring.

[00:55:48] Uh huh.

[00:55:49] And Motherless Brooklyn, uh, which, you know, was sort of kicking around at that time.

[00:55:55] Uh.

[00:55:56] All three make sense.

[00:55:57] Yeah.

[00:55:58] I mean like, those are three separate parts of the Lynch worldview.

[00:56:01] That's actually true.

[00:56:03] Right?

[00:56:03] Yeah.

[00:56:03] The suburban discontent.

[00:56:04] Right.

[00:56:04] You can see what someone saw for him in any of them, but obviously none of these went

[00:56:09] anywhere with him.

[00:56:10] Right.

[00:56:10] Jay Moore.

[00:56:12] Yeah.

[00:56:12] And the like sideways detective story.

[00:56:14] Yeah.

[00:56:15] You're like, most of his movies are those three things happening simultaneously.

[00:56:18] Obviously.

[00:56:19] Can you focus on one?

[00:56:20] It's fascinating to see three movies on his desk that are all just like, you just do

[00:56:23] this for two hours.

[00:56:25] Uh, David Lynch's casting process famously is he basically just looks at photos and just

[00:56:30] waits until something, you know, strikes him.

[00:56:32] Sure.

[00:56:32] Yeah.

[00:56:32] Yeah.

[00:56:33] And he's like really trusts Joanna Ray.

[00:56:34] Joanna Ray.

[00:56:34] Yeah.

[00:56:35] He's just like, I'm assuming this person can act if you're showing me a picture.

[00:56:39] Sure.

[00:56:39] Naomi Watts intrigues him.

[00:56:41] Australian actress who had done some Australian stuff, but I feel like when she is in this

[00:56:46] movie is mostly, I'm mostly reading that she was Nicole Kidman's roommate when she was

[00:56:50] a kid, a teenager.

[00:56:51] Yeah.

[00:56:51] Someone, when I said I was doing this, uh, podcast, I was doing the movie for this podcast

[00:56:56] was like, is that the movie with Nicole Kidman's best friend?

[00:56:59] Right.

[00:56:59] And I was like, burn bitch.

[00:57:01] Yeah.

[00:57:02] Um, I think that's a lot of it is like, they both are like, we're going to go to Hollywood

[00:57:05] and try to make it.

[00:57:06] And Nicole Kidman hits.

[00:57:08] Right.

[00:57:08] Ten years earlier than Naomi Watts does.

[00:57:10] And Naomi Watts is in.

[00:57:11] I wonder why.

[00:57:12] So strange.

[00:57:13] Some of these inexplicable things.

[00:57:14] You know who I was thinking about a lot.

[00:57:15] It's so strange, isn't it?

[00:57:17] It is.

[00:57:18] It's not.

[00:57:19] I think someone is serving the C word over here.

[00:57:21] Somebody.

[00:57:22] I understand what you're saying.

[00:57:23] Somebody gets married.

[00:57:26] Yeah.

[00:57:26] But yes, absolutely.

[00:57:27] Yeah.

[00:57:28] But also.

[00:57:28] I'm not saying she's not talented.

[00:57:29] I'm just saying.

[00:57:31] But her early career.

[00:57:32] It's interesting.

[00:57:32] You're right.

[00:57:33] Yeah.

[00:57:33] You're totally right.

[00:57:34] Yeah.

[00:57:35] Uh, I, I do, I was thinking a lot while watching this, both in the real Naomi Watts narrative

[00:57:40] of her career.

[00:57:41] Yeah.

[00:57:42] Leading into this movie.

[00:57:43] And of course the character she's playing where there are a lot of parallels.

[00:57:45] I, that I was thinking that too.

[00:57:47] What this movie represented for her as a chance to like basically get off the bench.

[00:57:51] Yeah.

[00:57:51] This is your shot to make them take notice.

[00:57:54] There you go.

[00:57:54] Right.

[00:57:54] Um, I, I, we probably talked about this in past episodes, but this insane stat that for

[00:58:00] both Bryan Singer, Superman returns.

[00:58:02] Hmm.

[00:58:04] If not.

[00:58:05] Additionally, also maybe some of the earlier developmental Brett Ratner, McG versions

[00:58:10] of trying to revive Superman.

[00:58:11] Ah.

[00:58:12] And for Nolan's Batman Begins.

[00:58:15] Hmm.

[00:58:15] Amy Adams was the actress who screen tested against all of the candidates.

[00:58:20] Amy Adams was playing the role that would go to Katie Holmes.

[00:58:23] Amy Adams was playing Lois Lane.

[00:58:25] When those tapes leak out and you can see Killian Murphy in the bat suit as Batman, it's Amy

[00:58:30] Adams over the shoulder.

[00:58:32] Right?

[00:58:32] Whoa.

[00:58:33] Whoa.

[00:58:33] And they talk about that and how like when she got cast as Lois Lane in the Spider-Verse,

[00:58:38] it was, or the Snyder-Verse rather, it was this full circle moment.

[00:58:41] Right.

[00:58:42] And you're like, okay, so Amy Adams was in this position where she had been living in

[00:58:46] Hollywood for like 10 years.

[00:58:48] Yeah.

[00:58:48] And was respected enough.

[00:58:50] Yeah.

[00:58:50] That John Papsadera, the studio, whatever was like, oh yeah, no, bring her in.

[00:58:55] She'll give the actors good things to work off of.

[00:58:57] Yeah.

[00:58:57] Was nowhere near the conversation of getting either of those parts.

[00:59:01] Getting the parts.

[00:59:01] Yeah.

[00:59:02] And in both cases, you're like, would have been better than the people they hired.

[00:59:05] One of them was.

[00:59:06] Yeah.

[00:59:06] And if you're her, you're like, what isn't happening here?

[00:59:09] All right.

[00:59:09] All right.

[00:59:10] But I think this relates to the movie.

[00:59:12] I agree.

[00:59:12] I was just going to say.

[00:59:14] I'm here.

[00:59:15] I'm in the room.

[00:59:15] I'm having the conversation.

[00:59:17] People are acknowledging me.

[00:59:18] Yeah.

[00:59:19] And yet it's not happening.

[00:59:20] Yeah.

[00:59:22] Which is the kind of thing that drives a lot of people crazy and leads to, let's

[00:59:25] say, a Mulholland Drive-esque psychology.

[00:59:29] Yeah.

[00:59:29] Yeah.

[00:59:30] Yeah.

[00:59:31] I couldn't agree more.

[00:59:32] Now we want to, it's a classic David Lynch thing.

[00:59:34] He just, she's beautiful.

[00:59:36] I want to meet her.

[00:59:37] She's got quite a face.

[00:59:38] She's gorgeous.

[00:59:38] She really does.

[00:59:39] Yeah.

[00:59:39] She's beautiful.

[00:59:40] And she was like.

[00:59:42] Yeah.

[00:59:43] Famously, the first time you met her, she was like, I look like shit and I feel like

[00:59:46] he wasn't that into like, you know, I wasn't giving my profile picture.

[00:59:50] Wasn't she like she'd just come off a plane or some shit?

[00:59:52] Right.

[00:59:52] Right.

[00:59:52] And so she asked me with them again.

[00:59:53] but she was basically like,

[00:59:54] this is like my story.

[00:59:56] Like, remember,

[00:59:57] she's only seeing the pilot.

[00:59:59] She's not seeing Diane.

[01:00:00] She's seeing Betty.

[01:00:01] But that also, I imagine,

[01:00:03] seeds something in his brain

[01:00:04] where he's now seen her

[01:00:05] at her most tired and worn down.

[01:00:07] And then a second time...

[01:00:08] And then a sec comes back.

[01:00:09] Right.

[01:00:10] Where he's like,

[01:00:10] oh, this woman has the range.

[01:00:11] The range to do both.

[01:00:13] Yeah.

[01:00:13] I didn't think of that

[01:00:14] because I read that story too

[01:00:14] and I was like,

[01:00:15] ooh, I got a kind of icky feeling from that.

[01:00:17] And then I was like,

[01:00:17] oh, you just pointed it out.

[01:00:19] I was like, oh, right.

[01:00:19] He did have to see

[01:00:21] essentially both versions of her.

[01:00:22] When I've heard her recount that story,

[01:00:24] she doesn't make it sound like,

[01:00:26] well, he was judging me

[01:00:27] for looking tired.

[01:00:28] I think a lot of it's

[01:00:29] her internalization.

[01:00:30] She's in her head about it.

[01:00:31] Yeah.

[01:00:31] No, he does say,

[01:00:34] when I meet her,

[01:00:34] she looked nothing like her picture.

[01:00:36] She didn't look bad,

[01:00:37] but she didn't look like her picture.

[01:00:38] And I wanted the girl in the picture.

[01:00:39] I thought, this is crazy.

[01:00:40] This is the girl.

[01:00:41] I'm imagining a person

[01:00:41] who doesn't exist.

[01:00:43] Yeah.

[01:00:43] So I asked if she could come back,

[01:00:45] made up, and she came back.

[01:00:46] Okay, so I'm wrong.

[01:00:47] Yeah.

[01:00:47] He meets...

[01:00:48] He did need to see both.

[01:00:49] Laura Elena Herring

[01:00:51] was Miss USA in 1985.

[01:00:52] She's obviously...

[01:00:53] Like, she is such a lynched girl.

[01:00:54] Was married to the Prince of Denmark

[01:00:56] for two years and was...

[01:00:57] Hasn't been...

[01:00:58] We've all fucking flirted

[01:01:01] with a European prince or two.

[01:01:03] Yes.

[01:01:03] She was briefly a von Bismarck

[01:01:05] from like 87 to 89.

[01:01:07] Wasn't that later?

[01:01:08] I'm trying...

[01:01:09] But yes, certainly she was

[01:01:10] in some royal family.

[01:01:13] Let me find it.

[01:01:15] Yes.

[01:01:17] Karl von Bismarck.

[01:01:19] So actually, you know what?

[01:01:20] He's just the fucking

[01:01:21] Prince of Bismarck Griffin.

[01:01:23] And Germany abolished

[01:01:24] its royal family long ago.

[01:01:26] Well...

[01:01:26] Like that.

[01:01:26] But he's still a...

[01:01:27] Probably a count or whatever.

[01:01:29] You know, he's got some castles.

[01:01:30] She was a countess briefly.

[01:01:32] Ten years later,

[01:01:33] he gets cast in a David Lynch project.

[01:01:34] Well, she met him

[01:01:35] at the 92 Can Film Festival

[01:01:37] where he's presenting

[01:01:38] Firewalk with me.

[01:01:39] And 1999 years later,

[01:01:42] Johanna Rae is like,

[01:01:43] David Lynch wants to meet you again.

[01:01:44] But this is also the kind of person

[01:01:46] David Lynch loves to cast

[01:01:47] where it's like,

[01:01:48] they're carrying over

[01:01:49] some weird energy of like,

[01:01:51] you were Miss America

[01:01:52] and then you were a countess.

[01:01:54] And then you were a countess.

[01:01:54] That's what he loves.

[01:01:54] And also...

[01:01:55] Like he loves people

[01:01:56] who have some weird

[01:01:57] metatextual history.

[01:01:58] She is such a Lynch girl.

[01:02:00] Yes.

[01:02:01] Image-wise.

[01:02:01] And like,

[01:02:02] when you think about

[01:02:03] who he put in Twin Peaks.

[01:02:04] Yes.

[01:02:04] And if you think about this,

[01:02:06] this is his next Twin Peaks.

[01:02:07] Like she makes so much of

[01:02:07] just this throwback look.

[01:02:09] Yeah.

[01:02:10] Totally looks like someone

[01:02:10] from 50s Hollywood.

[01:02:11] She's got Rita Hayworth on.

[01:02:13] She really does.

[01:02:14] Yeah.

[01:02:15] Yeah.

[01:02:15] The,

[01:02:16] because they're both Hispanic.

[01:02:17] Yes.

[01:02:18] Yes.

[01:02:18] Yeah.

[01:02:19] So,

[01:02:19] yeah.

[01:02:20] We will,

[01:02:21] we will talk about it more,

[01:02:22] I assume.

[01:02:23] And it like,

[01:02:24] it's certainly this movie

[01:02:25] is built in a way

[01:02:26] where of course

[01:02:27] it's more of a showcase

[01:02:28] for Naomi Watts

[01:02:29] and it makes sense

[01:02:30] that she's screenboarded.

[01:02:31] But it remains wild

[01:02:33] the absolute disparity

[01:02:34] between the Watts trajectory

[01:02:36] immediately after this movie.

[01:02:38] Yeah.

[01:02:40] Versus like,

[01:02:41] kind of nothing immediately.

[01:02:43] Yes.

[01:02:43] You're like,

[01:02:44] three years later,

[01:02:44] she's Travolta's wife

[01:02:45] in The Punisher

[01:02:46] and hasn't really had

[01:02:47] good roles in between.

[01:02:49] I mean,

[01:02:49] I think Laura Herring

[01:02:50] is not the actor

[01:02:51] that Naomi Watts is,

[01:02:52] I guess.

[01:02:53] I would agree.

[01:02:53] if you made me,

[01:02:54] you know,

[01:02:54] be mean about it.

[01:02:55] But she's pretty excellent

[01:02:56] in this

[01:02:56] and you at least think

[01:02:57] she should have had

[01:02:58] a better version

[01:02:59] of the career

[01:02:59] she had off of this.

[01:03:02] She's just perfect

[01:03:03] for this movie.

[01:03:04] She is.

[01:03:04] And perfect for David Lynch.

[01:03:05] Like,

[01:03:06] there's no question.

[01:03:07] Justin Theroux,

[01:03:09] uh,

[01:03:09] kind of nobody

[01:03:10] at this point,

[01:03:11] right?

[01:03:11] Like,

[01:03:12] what did Justin Theroux

[01:03:13] have been in?

[01:03:13] That's a good question.

[01:03:14] Uh,

[01:03:15] no offense to him.

[01:03:16] I mean,

[01:03:16] he's had a great career.

[01:03:17] You're throwing bombs

[01:03:18] left and right.

[01:03:19] Oh, right.

[01:03:19] You know what?

[01:03:20] He's in Romeo and Michelle's

[01:03:21] high school reunion

[01:03:22] and he's so funny.

[01:03:23] Oh, right.

[01:03:25] He's in American Psycho.

[01:03:27] He's one of the zillion.

[01:03:27] Oh, yes,

[01:03:28] he is in American Psycho.

[01:03:29] Yeah.

[01:03:29] But that's basically

[01:03:30] concurrent with

[01:03:31] this pilot.

[01:03:32] That's true.

[01:03:33] That's true.

[01:03:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:03:34] Um,

[01:03:35] you know,

[01:03:36] you know,

[01:03:37] he,

[01:03:37] so I don't,

[01:03:38] there's nothing really,

[01:03:38] there's definitely no,

[01:03:39] like,

[01:03:39] I saw his picture

[01:03:40] and I fell in love.

[01:03:41] I mean,

[01:03:42] I don't know.

[01:03:42] He's great casting.

[01:03:43] It's an I shot Andy Warhol.

[01:03:44] Yeah.

[01:03:45] Obviously,

[01:03:46] a lot of the other parts here,

[01:03:48] Robert Forster,

[01:03:49] Monty Montgomery,

[01:03:50] Ann Miller,

[01:03:51] like,

[01:03:51] that's more classic Lynch

[01:03:52] of like,

[01:03:53] you know,

[01:03:53] I want these

[01:03:54] old Hollywood people

[01:03:55] like who,

[01:03:56] it's a whole,

[01:03:57] it's a Hollywood story.

[01:03:58] Or Monty Montgomery,

[01:03:59] my buddy who has a vibe.

[01:04:01] He's old Hollywood though.

[01:04:03] Yeah.

[01:04:03] Um,

[01:04:04] and,

[01:04:05] yes,

[01:04:06] we,

[01:04:06] we write the Monty Montgomery story.

[01:04:07] Uh,

[01:04:08] you know,

[01:04:08] Dan Hedaya,

[01:04:09] for whatever reason,

[01:04:12] David has always thought

[01:04:13] that Angelo Badalamenti

[01:04:15] looks like Dan Hedaya's brother.

[01:04:17] Oh,

[01:04:17] that kind of.

[01:04:18] And he's like,

[01:04:19] I want to do that now.

[01:04:20] I would like you two

[01:04:21] to play brothers

[01:04:22] in,

[01:04:22] in L'Hawnda Drive

[01:04:23] and Angelo's like,

[01:04:24] okay.

[01:04:24] I didn't know that.

[01:04:25] Yes,

[01:04:25] he's the guy

[01:04:26] who hates the espresso.

[01:04:27] Yes,

[01:04:28] he is.

[01:04:29] I did not know that.

[01:04:30] She.

[01:04:31] Yeah.

[01:04:32] Uh,

[01:04:33] if you could see my face

[01:04:34] right now,

[01:04:35] listeners,

[01:04:35] I'm gooped.

[01:04:36] It's fun to tell people that.

[01:04:37] I had no idea.

[01:04:38] Apparently,

[01:04:39] Billy Ray Cyrus

[01:04:39] came in to talk

[01:04:40] about another part.

[01:04:41] I'm not sure.

[01:04:43] What's role.

[01:04:44] I think he.

[01:04:45] Betty.

[01:04:45] Betty slash Diane.

[01:04:47] I got a real strong take.

[01:04:48] Uh,

[01:04:49] and Lynch said

[01:04:50] he was

[01:04:51] Gene the pool guy,

[01:04:52] which I don't know

[01:04:53] how Billy Ray

[01:04:54] should be taking that.

[01:04:55] I don't know.

[01:04:55] He is kind of incredible.

[01:04:58] So,

[01:04:58] I guess.

[01:04:59] He's amazing.

[01:04:59] We don't spend a lot

[01:05:00] of time on it,

[01:05:01] but Billy Ray Cyrus

[01:05:01] has blamed him

[01:05:03] being on this movie

[01:05:04] for the dissolution

[01:05:04] of his family.

[01:05:06] He.

[01:05:06] Excuse me.

[01:05:07] When he and his wife

[01:05:07] were getting divorced

[01:05:08] and Miley Cyrus

[01:05:09] was going through her,

[01:05:10] like,

[01:05:10] I'm trying to own

[01:05:11] being an adult

[01:05:11] and having sexual agency era

[01:05:13] out of,

[01:05:14] like,

[01:05:14] Disney stardom,

[01:05:15] and Billy Ray Cyrus

[01:05:16] went to the press

[01:05:17] and he was like,

[01:05:18] my whole family

[01:05:18] is strayed from

[01:05:19] the path of good.

[01:05:20] We were corrupted

[01:05:21] by Hollywood.

[01:05:22] None of this would have happened

[01:05:23] if David Lynch

[01:05:23] hadn't cast me.

[01:05:24] No,

[01:05:24] what he says,

[01:05:25] I do want to give

[01:05:27] Billy Ray credit

[01:05:27] that he does say

[01:05:28] that David Lynch,

[01:05:29] I love him

[01:05:30] and he changed my life.

[01:05:31] He doesn't blame Lynch.

[01:05:32] But right,

[01:05:32] but he's like,

[01:05:33] because.

[01:05:33] It started the path.

[01:05:34] I was in it.

[01:05:35] I was right.

[01:05:37] Now in Hollywood

[01:05:37] while I was doing that.

[01:05:39] Oh,

[01:05:40] I see.

[01:05:40] And I remember feeling,

[01:05:42] quote,

[01:05:42] this is Billy Ray Cyrus,

[01:05:43] not me,

[01:05:44] this might not be

[01:05:45] what God had in mind.

[01:05:47] And then what he chooses

[01:05:48] to do is

[01:05:48] continue to ride it out,

[01:05:50] make a ton of money

[01:05:50] playing her dad

[01:05:51] on her show.

[01:05:52] Like,

[01:05:53] it's not like,

[01:05:53] he's not saying,

[01:05:54] like,

[01:05:55] Lynch cursed us.

[01:05:56] Yeah.

[01:05:56] But he's like,

[01:05:57] that was the siren song

[01:05:58] that called me over

[01:05:59] to Hollywood.

[01:06:00] Right,

[01:06:01] right.

[01:06:01] And then now my daughter,

[01:06:02] can you believe it?

[01:06:03] I did not put that together.

[01:06:04] Has a body

[01:06:05] and my wife doesn't

[01:06:07] want to be married to me.

[01:06:08] Who is his wife?

[01:06:09] And now she's married

[01:06:10] to Dominic Purcell.

[01:06:12] Oh,

[01:06:12] potato head.

[01:06:13] Trish Cyrus.

[01:06:15] Sure.

[01:06:16] Maybe.

[01:06:16] He's amazing in

[01:06:17] Mulholland Drive,

[01:06:18] Billy Ray Cyrus.

[01:06:19] He is fantastic.

[01:06:20] Yeah.

[01:06:21] He cucks the show.

[01:06:23] There's nothing,

[01:06:24] if I ever get cucked,

[01:06:26] it better be

[01:06:27] Billy Ray Cyrus

[01:06:28] and he better,

[01:06:29] like,

[01:06:29] as I walk in,

[01:06:30] just be like,

[01:06:31] just,

[01:06:32] just leave.

[01:06:33] Just leave.

[01:06:33] Just get out of here.

[01:06:35] Your attitude is,

[01:06:36] if,

[01:06:36] if,

[01:06:36] I'll just be pumping

[01:06:37] with my fist.

[01:06:38] you have to be cucked.

[01:06:39] This is who you want it to be.

[01:06:41] It'd be great.

[01:06:41] I'm like,

[01:06:42] this would piss me off so much.

[01:06:43] If it was this exact situation,

[01:06:45] you'd like be,

[01:06:45] his energy.

[01:06:47] You would go paint mode?

[01:06:48] Yeah.

[01:06:49] Paint mode?

[01:06:49] You're pouring paint.

[01:06:51] He pours the paint.

[01:06:51] Yes.

[01:06:52] I'd paint a fucking drawer.

[01:06:53] I don't know what this says about me,

[01:06:55] but now that we're,

[01:06:55] I never thought this watching the movie,

[01:06:57] but now that we're talking about it,

[01:06:59] what does it mean about me

[01:07:00] that I would just walk away?

[01:07:02] Oh,

[01:07:03] you would be like,

[01:07:04] you know what, buddy?

[01:07:04] 10-4,

[01:07:05] I'm out of here.

[01:07:06] I'm out of here.

[01:07:06] You know what?

[01:07:06] I would just leave.

[01:07:08] Eternal sunshine, baby.

[01:07:09] I think the lid would remain on,

[01:07:11] you're saying.

[01:07:12] I'm turning on the window wiper.

[01:07:13] Yeah,

[01:07:13] I would just get back into the Porsche.

[01:07:15] Yeah.

[01:07:16] I'd go golfing.

[01:07:17] Yeah.

[01:07:17] And I'd deal with it later.

[01:07:19] Right.

[01:07:20] Yeah,

[01:07:21] I do think to some extent,

[01:07:22] if I walked in on the love of my life

[01:07:25] in bed with Billy Ray Cyrus.

[01:07:27] But is she the love of his life?

[01:07:28] I don't know if she's the love of his life.

[01:07:30] She doesn't seem that nice.

[01:07:31] Good point.

[01:07:31] No offense to her.

[01:07:32] You know, like, she seems...

[01:07:33] Let me...

[01:07:34] No, I think you're right.

[01:07:35] And let me rephrase it.

[01:07:36] Her reaction is so funny too,

[01:07:37] where she's like,

[01:07:37] now you've done it.

[01:07:38] Fuck this up.

[01:07:41] I kind of...

[01:07:42] Do you know why I would because of that?

[01:07:43] Because she said that.

[01:07:45] I didn't feel like,

[01:07:45] fuck the pool guy in peace

[01:07:47] without you being here

[01:07:48] and it being a problem.

[01:07:49] And I was like,

[01:07:49] let me correct my statement.

[01:07:51] Fair, babe.

[01:07:51] Fair.

[01:07:52] If I were dating someone

[01:07:53] and I walked in,

[01:07:55] she was in bed with Billy Ray Cyrus,

[01:07:57] that was her energy

[01:07:58] and that was his energy,

[01:08:00] I'd go like,

[01:08:01] well,

[01:08:01] this was never going to work out.

[01:08:02] Yeah,

[01:08:03] I gotta go.

[01:08:03] Even when I feel offended,

[01:08:04] it's insane that you were ever dating me

[01:08:05] if this is what you...

[01:08:06] Yeah, you're gonna hear from the lawyer.

[01:08:08] You're into this?

[01:08:08] I would be more like...

[01:08:09] You're gonna hear from the lawyer.

[01:08:10] I would probably,

[01:08:11] iPhone time,

[01:08:11] just take a picture and leave.

[01:08:13] Yeah.

[01:08:13] I just would like to speak

[01:08:15] for the audience

[01:08:16] listening right now,

[01:08:18] the ones who are thinking,

[01:08:20] I would lose my fucking mind

[01:08:22] and scream in rage.

[01:08:24] Just want to put that out there.

[01:08:25] Ben would fucking...

[01:08:26] But Ben would do...

[01:08:27] 40 paint cans.

[01:08:28] Yes.

[01:08:28] What, if Billy Ray Cyrus

[01:08:29] fucked your wife?

[01:08:31] Fiancé.

[01:08:32] Fiancé.

[01:08:32] Oh, are they not married?

[01:08:33] Maybe it's because...

[01:08:34] No, I'm saying in Ben's case.

[01:08:35] Oh, oh, oh, oh, I'm saying

[01:08:35] we're specifically going to...

[01:08:36] I guess maybe...

[01:08:37] I would light a cigarette,

[01:08:39] take a couple puffs,

[01:08:40] throw it on the ground

[01:08:41] and burn the house down.

[01:08:43] Wow.

[01:08:43] Jesus Christ.

[01:08:44] Maybe it's because I'm gay.

[01:08:45] I just...

[01:08:46] Maybe it's just because I'm gay.

[01:08:47] I think I would also just be like...

[01:08:49] I mean, I love...

[01:08:49] I'm not this.

[01:08:50] If you wanted this,

[01:08:51] like, all right,

[01:08:52] take a tumble with old B, B, R, C.

[01:08:54] My attitude is just...

[01:08:55] My basic operating principles

[01:08:57] of a human being

[01:08:58] is if you break my heart,

[01:09:00] my icky breaky heart.

[01:09:01] Oh.

[01:09:02] Keep going.

[01:09:03] Keep going.

[01:09:04] I just don't think

[01:09:05] you'll understand.

[01:09:05] Speak on that.

[01:09:06] What's the next line?

[01:09:07] I don't know.

[01:09:08] I just have to make that.

[01:09:09] I think it...

[01:09:10] And if you break my heart,

[01:09:11] again, it just brings it back.

[01:09:13] Yeah, a lot of repetition.

[01:09:14] They shoot the pilot

[01:09:15] from Mulholland Drive.

[01:09:16] Yeah.

[01:09:17] Everyone has a really nice time

[01:09:18] making it.

[01:09:19] And Disney does not seem

[01:09:21] dissatisfied with the dailies.

[01:09:23] Jack Fist said

[01:09:24] he got a little trouble

[01:09:25] from Disney getting their money

[01:09:27] to, like, build sets and stuff,

[01:09:28] but that just sounds like

[01:09:29] working with Disney.

[01:09:30] Yeah.

[01:09:31] Well, it's because

[01:09:31] fucking Scrooge McDuck

[01:09:33] was running payroll

[01:09:33] at the time.

[01:09:34] He's not letting go

[01:09:35] of those fucking coins.

[01:09:37] He has to do the backstroke.

[01:09:38] In April 1999,

[01:09:41] Lynch delivers

[01:09:41] an initial cut.

[01:09:43] He gave me a knowing look.

[01:09:44] Go on.

[01:09:44] An initial cut

[01:09:45] that runs over two hours.

[01:09:46] Two hours, five minutes.

[01:09:48] Jesus.

[01:09:48] Oh, so they have to get it

[01:09:49] down to 80.

[01:09:50] ABC is like,

[01:09:51] David, 88 minutes.

[01:09:53] Respectfully.

[01:09:54] That is your edict here.

[01:09:55] And then how many,

[01:09:56] how much,

[01:09:57] how much is ads?

[01:10:00] That's what I'm saying.

[01:10:00] I think they're like,

[01:10:01] if you give us 88 minutes,

[01:10:02] it can be two hours.

[01:10:03] It can be two hours long.

[01:10:03] Yeah, yeah, got it.

[01:10:04] At a time where the longest

[01:10:05] any episodic show is

[01:10:07] is 44 minutes.

[01:10:10] Like, that's what's crazy

[01:10:11] to think about

[01:10:11] is he delivered something

[01:10:12] that was over two hours

[01:10:13] and they were like,

[01:10:14] we were being generous

[01:10:15] by asking for 88 minutes.

[01:10:18] Double what everyone else

[01:10:19] is doing.

[01:10:25] Sort of collaborator partner

[01:10:27] says.

[01:10:27] In life and in work.

[01:10:28] Yes.

[01:10:29] I think they were,

[01:10:30] the minute they saw it,

[01:10:31] they were immediately

[01:10:32] kind of like,

[01:10:33] we're not going to do this.

[01:10:34] It's right.

[01:10:35] You didn't recapture the magic.

[01:10:36] It's not going to be

[01:10:37] Twin Peaks again.

[01:10:38] Despite 88 minutes,

[01:10:39] whatever,

[01:10:39] he did get it down to,

[01:10:40] like the pilot

[01:10:41] that you can watch

[01:10:42] in very shitty VHS form

[01:10:43] is sort of floating around.

[01:10:45] It is 90 minutes.

[01:10:46] So he clearly,

[01:10:47] you know,

[01:10:47] he gave them what they wanted,

[01:10:48] but he didn't really

[01:10:49] give them what they wanted.

[01:10:52] According to the network,

[01:10:55] it's not that good.

[01:10:56] It's slow.

[01:10:59] The actresses are old.

[01:11:01] That was,

[01:11:02] I think,

[01:11:02] something.

[01:11:03] I mean,

[01:11:03] which is funny

[01:11:03] because right,

[01:11:04] with Twin Peaks,

[01:11:05] he's smartly

[01:11:05] is sort of like,

[01:11:06] it'll be like a high school show

[01:11:07] so there's all these

[01:11:08] young people in it

[01:11:09] along with my lovely

[01:11:11] collection of freaks.

[01:11:12] To them,

[01:11:13] it's like,

[01:11:13] why are you discovering

[01:11:15] actresses who are already

[01:11:16] in their 30s?

[01:11:17] Right.

[01:11:18] These people aren't famous

[01:11:19] and they're older than 25?

[01:11:21] Well,

[01:11:22] I have been in that

[01:11:22] position before.

[01:11:23] Interesting.

[01:11:24] In casting,

[01:11:24] where if you're looking

[01:11:26] for somebody of a certain age,

[01:11:27] Yes.

[01:11:29] you do kind of get

[01:11:30] into this weird space

[01:11:31] where you have to get,

[01:11:35] let's say,

[01:11:35] let's just say,

[01:11:36] a male in his 50s.

[01:11:38] Sure.

[01:11:38] Let's just say that.

[01:11:39] Sure.

[01:11:39] And you need to either

[01:11:43] get an A-list actor,

[01:11:46] you know,

[01:11:46] somebody that has,

[01:11:47] if you're 50,

[01:11:48] you've either been

[01:11:49] working for decades

[01:11:50] Right.

[01:11:51] or no one has

[01:11:52] found out about you.

[01:11:53] Right.

[01:11:53] Even if you're not

[01:11:55] presently A-list,

[01:11:55] they want someone

[01:11:56] who at one point

[01:11:57] was A-list.

[01:11:58] Exactly.

[01:11:58] And you could bring them back.

[01:11:59] Exactly.

[01:12:00] Like,

[01:12:01] because you don't,

[01:12:04] discovering somebody

[01:12:05] at the age

[01:12:05] that Naomi Watts is

[01:12:07] That's a thing.

[01:12:08] is odd.

[01:12:08] And it's one of the things

[01:12:09] this fucking movie

[01:12:10] is about to a certain extent,

[01:12:11] this feeling of desperation,

[01:12:14] right?

[01:12:15] Yep.

[01:12:15] Going back to sort of

[01:12:16] the Amy Adams thing

[01:12:17] and Amy Adams and Naomi Watts,

[01:12:18] both people who seemingly

[01:12:19] didn't go crazy.

[01:12:20] Yeah.

[01:12:20] And when they got their

[01:12:21] deserved shot,

[01:12:22] we're like,

[01:12:22] great,

[01:12:22] I'll get to work.

[01:12:23] I'm professional.

[01:12:23] And I'm not saying

[01:12:24] it doesn't happen

[01:12:25] because it happens

[01:12:26] to Naomi Watts

[01:12:27] with this move.

[01:12:28] It does.

[01:12:28] You know,

[01:12:28] like,

[01:12:29] so it's not.

[01:12:29] Of course it happens.

[01:12:30] But it is when you're

[01:12:31] in that position,

[01:12:31] you're in David Lynch's

[01:12:33] position,

[01:12:33] it's odd.

[01:12:34] The industry

[01:12:34] does genuinely go,

[01:12:36] wait a second,

[01:12:37] if you are over 25

[01:12:38] and it hasn't happened yet

[01:12:40] and other people

[01:12:41] haven't taken the chance

[01:12:43] on you,

[01:12:43] what do they know

[01:12:44] that we don't?

[01:12:45] That we don't,

[01:12:46] exactly.

[01:12:46] There is a fear-based,

[01:12:48] there must be a reason

[01:12:49] we have not yet uncovered.

[01:12:51] I realize.

[01:12:51] Why hasn't this apartment

[01:12:52] rented?

[01:12:54] It's low.

[01:12:55] The price is low.

[01:12:56] It's been on the market

[01:12:56] for two years.

[01:12:57] And this does.

[01:12:58] It must have bed bugs.

[01:12:59] And this.

[01:13:00] Right?

[01:13:00] Like,

[01:13:00] that's sort of their thinking.

[01:13:02] They're like,

[01:13:02] if you're 30

[01:13:03] and you haven't gotten

[01:13:04] famous yet,

[01:13:05] then there's a problem.

[01:13:06] And it does relate back

[01:13:08] to the movie

[01:13:09] because what you're saying,

[01:13:12] which is absolutely correct,

[01:13:13] is it is a fear-based

[01:13:15] way of thinking

[01:13:16] and Hollywood,

[01:13:18] the main fuel

[01:13:19] of Hollywood is fear.

[01:13:21] And those,

[01:13:21] right,

[01:13:22] the people who are making

[01:13:22] this decision

[01:13:23] deciding your fate,

[01:13:24] it's fear.

[01:13:25] It's fear.

[01:13:26] It's absolutely fear.

[01:13:26] Yeah.

[01:13:27] They're operating

[01:13:28] on a fear-based system

[01:13:29] and then they are thus

[01:13:30] creating on the people

[01:13:31] whose lives they control

[01:13:33] an even greater sense of fear.

[01:13:35] Yeah.

[01:13:35] And so you end up

[01:13:36] in this state

[01:13:36] where you feel like

[01:13:37] you're in a fucking

[01:13:37] David Lynch movie.

[01:13:38] It's it.

[01:13:39] And you're like,

[01:13:40] what is this reality

[01:13:41] I am in?

[01:13:42] Does it ever change?

[01:13:43] Do I ever become

[01:13:44] the other person

[01:13:45] I want to be?

[01:13:46] The movie.

[01:13:47] Like,

[01:13:47] what is the exchange of that?

[01:13:49] What do I have to do

[01:13:49] in order to get that?

[01:13:50] And that's literally

[01:13:52] what I need to protect

[01:13:53] and make sure

[01:13:53] I don't give up.

[01:13:54] You just gave the

[01:13:56] fucking movie.

[01:13:56] That's the logline

[01:13:57] of the movie.

[01:13:58] Yes.

[01:13:58] That's the logline

[01:13:59] of the movie.

[01:13:59] Yes.

[01:13:59] And that's why

[01:14:00] I'm only half joking

[01:14:01] when I say it's a biopic.

[01:14:02] Like,

[01:14:02] it's my...

[01:14:04] Yes.

[01:14:04] Because I...

[01:14:05] And I even think

[01:14:06] at the young age

[01:14:07] that I saw it,

[01:14:07] which was 20,

[01:14:08] you know,

[01:14:09] I still sort of...

[01:14:10] As somebody that was

[01:14:11] in theater school

[01:14:12] and had aspirations...

[01:14:13] Wanting to do this.

[01:14:14] Yeah.

[01:14:14] It just...

[01:14:15] It did cement in my mind,

[01:14:17] you know,

[01:14:18] this is what you're

[01:14:19] entering into.

[01:14:19] Right.

[01:14:20] It isn't Sunset Boulevard.

[01:14:22] Yeah.

[01:14:22] Which is like a big...

[01:14:24] You know,

[01:14:25] he's got the car.

[01:14:26] He's got Paramount.

[01:14:29] He's got the street sign.

[01:14:31] Yeah.

[01:14:31] He wanted to put

[01:14:32] some of the score

[01:14:33] in the movie.

[01:14:34] Sure.

[01:14:37] So it's not gonna be that.

[01:14:39] It's also interesting

[01:14:40] to think about

[01:14:41] this movie being

[01:14:42] whatever it is,

[01:14:43] 15 years after Blue Velvet.

[01:14:46] Sure.

[01:14:46] And the amount

[01:14:47] of hand-wringing

[01:14:48] Yeah.

[01:14:49] in the press and such

[01:14:50] of people being like,

[01:14:51] is this movie exploitative?

[01:14:53] Is it evil?

[01:14:54] Oh, right.

[01:14:54] How dare he do this

[01:14:55] to Isabella Rossellini?

[01:14:56] Right.

[01:14:56] Is it abusive?

[01:14:58] And it's like,

[01:14:58] that woman becomes

[01:15:01] his life partner.

[01:15:02] Wife.

[01:15:03] For a number of years.

[01:15:04] Wife.

[01:15:04] Yeah.

[01:15:04] Partner.

[01:15:05] Partner.

[01:15:05] You know,

[01:15:06] and has always been like,

[01:15:07] no,

[01:15:08] I felt completely treated

[01:15:09] properly.

[01:15:10] Yeah.

[01:15:10] And for him to,

[01:15:11] 15 years later,

[01:15:12] make this thing

[01:15:13] that is in many ways

[01:15:14] about his own experience

[01:15:15] coexisting in L.A.,

[01:15:16] but it's also sort of

[01:15:17] him doing this act of like,

[01:15:19] what does it feel like

[01:15:20] to be on that side of it?

[01:15:21] Yeah.

[01:15:22] And is there a position

[01:15:23] where you can feel like,

[01:15:24] no,

[01:15:24] I have complete autonomy.

[01:15:25] I want the guy

[01:15:26] to do the version

[01:15:29] of the scene

[01:15:29] where we get real close.

[01:15:31] And I'm choosing

[01:15:32] to do this

[01:15:32] and I'm getting juice

[01:15:34] from it

[01:15:34] and my performance

[01:15:35] is great.

[01:15:36] And then maybe 15 years later

[01:15:37] do you back up

[01:15:38] and go like,

[01:15:38] what the fuck was I doing?

[01:15:39] Exactly.

[01:15:40] I think that's what I'm saying.

[01:15:41] Well,

[01:15:41] anyway,

[01:15:42] we can talk,

[01:15:42] I want to talk about

[01:15:43] that scene later.

[01:15:43] We're going to go through

[01:15:44] Mulholland Drive

[01:15:45] like a fine tooth comb,

[01:15:46] but I do want to tell you

[01:15:47] that ABC passed

[01:15:48] on the pilot.

[01:15:49] I'm sorry to break

[01:15:50] this news to you.

[01:15:51] May of 1999,

[01:15:51] they said no.

[01:15:52] I'm just hearing this

[01:15:53] for the first time right now.

[01:15:54] Lynch now says

[01:15:55] it's a blessing.

[01:15:56] Standing at the tarmac

[01:15:56] putting a finger

[01:15:57] behind my ears.

[01:15:58] Lynch says,

[01:15:59] look,

[01:15:59] I do think the first thing

[01:16:00] I sent them

[01:16:00] was too slow,

[01:16:01] the two hour cut.

[01:16:02] But then I do think

[01:16:03] the finesse cut

[01:16:04] was kind of not good.

[01:16:06] Yeah,

[01:16:06] compromised.

[01:16:07] Right.

[01:16:07] The rhythms of it were off.

[01:16:09] And I look back on it now

[01:16:10] and I'm like,

[01:16:10] it was fate.

[01:16:11] It's better

[01:16:11] the way it turned out

[01:16:12] was the way

[01:16:13] it was supposed to turn out.

[01:16:14] The show that

[01:16:15] everyone assumed

[01:16:16] ABC would put it on

[01:16:17] Thursday night at nine.

[01:16:19] The show instead

[01:16:20] that they order

[01:16:21] is a show called

[01:16:22] Wasteland.

[01:16:23] A Kevin Williamson show

[01:16:25] follow up to Dawson's Creek

[01:16:26] starring Sasha Alexander

[01:16:27] or Rebecca Gayhart

[01:16:28] gets canceled

[01:16:28] after three episodes.

[01:16:29] And doesn't it get canceled

[01:16:30] like

[01:16:32] like the day

[01:16:34] or the week

[01:16:35] that straight story

[01:16:36] goes into theaters?

[01:16:37] That sounds right.

[01:16:37] 1999,

[01:16:38] fall of 1999

[01:16:39] or something.

[01:16:40] It's so funny to think

[01:16:40] about David Lynch

[01:16:41] at this point

[01:16:42] just like deeply entrenched

[01:16:43] in two different sides

[01:16:44] of the Walt Disney Company.

[01:16:46] Like a movie he made

[01:16:47] independently with

[01:16:48] foreign financing

[01:16:49] is now bought by them

[01:16:50] and released by them

[01:16:52] at the same time

[01:16:52] he's working at ABC

[01:16:53] and trying to get through

[01:16:54] their development process.

[01:16:55] I also just can't imagine

[01:16:57] Lynch in the development process.

[01:16:59] No.

[01:17:00] It is hard to imagine

[01:17:01] any of this

[01:17:01] and I do think

[01:17:02] from what I've read

[01:17:03] about it

[01:17:03] it's like

[01:17:04] he has a person

[01:17:06] who's usually good

[01:17:07] at like kind of right

[01:17:08] being a middle person

[01:17:09] between him

[01:17:10] and a studio.

[01:17:11] Not that he's like

[01:17:12] What he's trying to say is

[01:17:14] right like

[01:17:14] but the other

[01:17:15] also like

[01:17:16] hey David

[01:17:16] the studio said this

[01:17:18] like

[01:17:18] but maybe knows

[01:17:19] how to finesse that

[01:17:19] with him.

[01:17:20] Also at this point

[01:17:20] he is like

[01:17:21] a proven brand

[01:17:22] like all these people

[01:17:23] bringing him in

[01:17:24] for the meeting

[01:17:24] are like

[01:17:24] oh he's doing

[01:17:25] the David Lynch thing

[01:17:26] David Lynch.

[01:17:27] To some extent

[01:17:27] they must be excited

[01:17:28] that they're like

[01:17:29] where does he

[01:17:30] fucking get these ideas?

[01:17:32] Who else talks this way?

[01:17:34] Rumors

[01:17:35] circulate that HBO

[01:17:37] might pick it up.

[01:17:37] I'm trying that Goofy

[01:17:38] was one of the execs

[01:17:39] in the room.

[01:17:39] Okay.

[01:17:40] It was ABC.

[01:17:42] Doesn't happen.

[01:17:43] Sits on a shelf.

[01:17:43] Pierre Edelman

[01:17:44] at Studio Canal

[01:17:45] who has worked with Lynch

[01:17:47] in the past

[01:17:47] finds out about it.

[01:17:48] The French HBO

[01:17:49] basically.

[01:17:50] Yeah.

[01:17:50] Sure.

[01:17:51] I mean

[01:17:52] Canal Plus

[01:17:52] is TV

[01:17:54] but they have a film

[01:17:55] they produce

[01:17:56] their own films.

[01:17:56] Studio Canal.

[01:17:57] But just to create

[01:17:58] a sloppy analog

[01:18:00] for people who don't know.

[01:18:01] He's basically like

[01:18:02] there's a David Lynch project

[01:18:04] complete or almost complete

[01:18:07] It's a jump ball.

[01:18:07] That's there?

[01:18:08] That's sitting there.

[01:18:09] Right.

[01:18:09] He finally hears about it

[01:18:11] and Lynch is like

[01:18:12] look I don't

[01:18:13] you know

[01:18:13] I don't want to hear

[01:18:15] about that.

[01:18:15] I don't want to think

[01:18:16] about that anymore.

[01:18:17] Like it didn't work out.

[01:18:19] Edelman raises

[01:18:20] four million dollars

[01:18:21] to buy back the right.

[01:18:22] Sorry.

[01:18:23] Not to interrupt you

[01:18:23] but he also hates

[01:18:25] that the pilot is out there.

[01:18:27] He does.

[01:18:27] He's very upset

[01:18:28] that I can watch it.

[01:18:29] Yes.

[01:18:29] He's very upset about it.

[01:18:30] Which I had respected

[01:18:31] his wishes until

[01:18:32] I was like

[01:18:32] I'm doing a podcast

[01:18:33] and I'm finally going to

[01:18:34] see what it looks like

[01:18:34] and I know

[01:18:35] Mulhollandreff so well now

[01:18:36] that I will be okay.

[01:18:38] Pierre buys it

[01:18:38] for four million.

[01:18:39] Four million dollars

[01:18:41] The money against

[01:18:42] this movie at this point

[01:18:43] what is it

[01:18:44] twelve million?

[01:18:45] That sounds right.

[01:18:46] Okay.

[01:18:46] I guess.

[01:18:47] It's like right

[01:18:47] sort of seven mil

[01:18:48] of Disney's money

[01:18:49] another four

[01:18:50] or so of

[01:18:50] Pierre's money.

[01:18:51] Yeah.

[01:18:52] They have to then

[01:18:53] essentially convert it

[01:18:55] from TV pilot form

[01:18:56] to cinema form

[01:18:58] so they have to deal

[01:18:59] with that.

[01:19:00] What amount of time

[01:19:00] had elapsed

[01:19:01] from when they filmed

[01:19:03] the pilot?

[01:19:04] Do you know?

[01:19:05] I will tell you

[01:19:06] he gets two million

[01:19:07] more dollars

[01:19:08] basically told

[01:19:10] go shoot a third act.

[01:19:11] So 14 million.

[01:19:12] Yeah.

[01:19:13] We're piling on here.

[01:19:15] Lynch is

[01:19:17] anxious.

[01:19:19] He's like I don't know

[01:19:20] if I have a third act.

[01:19:22] Maybe he should have

[01:19:23] tried transcendental meditation.

[01:19:25] I hear it works very well.

[01:19:27] He's worried that

[01:19:28] the sets have been struck.

[01:19:31] How am I even going to do it?

[01:19:33] And so there's a lot

[01:19:35] of anxiety about that

[01:19:36] but they figure it out.

[01:19:39] Supposedly Tony

[01:19:42] Krantz,

[01:19:42] the agent guy

[01:19:43] who we've been talking about

[01:19:44] who had sided with Disney

[01:19:46] basically and sort of

[01:19:47] you know helped fuck the project

[01:19:49] threatened to sue him

[01:19:50] at one point.

[01:19:51] Yeah.

[01:19:51] They had a big

[01:19:52] falling out.

[01:19:53] Seems very fraught.

[01:19:54] Yeah.

[01:19:55] But then finally

[01:19:56] David Lynch sat down

[01:19:57] in a chair

[01:19:57] and the final act

[01:19:58] of the movie

[01:19:58] came to him LOL

[01:19:59] as JJ put in the research here.

[01:20:02] Beautifully said.

[01:20:02] I sat down in a chair

[01:20:03] at 6.30

[01:20:04] and at 7

[01:20:04] all of the ideas

[01:20:06] were there.

[01:20:06] They came out of darkness

[01:20:07] and made themselves known.

[01:20:08] Cool.

[01:20:08] Sounds good.

[01:20:09] At 8 o'clock

[01:20:09] you took a shower.

[01:20:11] But that's classic him.

[01:20:13] It is.

[01:20:14] It's just classic him.

[01:20:15] He's just like

[01:20:16] remember there's one

[01:20:18] interview with him

[01:20:19] where he says

[01:20:21] if you forget an idea

[01:20:24] he's

[01:20:24] if I forget an idea

[01:20:26] you fall in love

[01:20:27] with ideas

[01:20:27] and if I forget an idea

[01:20:29] I want to kill myself.

[01:20:31] Yeah.

[01:20:31] Right.

[01:20:31] He literally says

[01:20:32] I'm going to commit suicide.

[01:20:33] Every idea is valuable.

[01:20:34] Yeah.

[01:20:35] Yeah.

[01:20:37] And so he starts writing

[01:20:38] and yes

[01:20:40] they essentially

[01:20:41] you know

[01:20:42] almost all of the

[01:20:43] reshooting they do

[01:20:44] is the third act

[01:20:45] of the film.

[01:20:45] They do a little bit

[01:20:46] I think of finessing

[01:20:47] for the stuff

[01:20:48] they already have

[01:20:49] but it's basically

[01:20:50] they're just reusing that.

[01:20:51] Like winkies.

[01:20:51] But they

[01:20:52] right.

[01:20:52] But then they do

[01:20:54] also of course

[01:20:54] have to like

[01:20:55] call Naomi Watts

[01:20:56] and be like

[01:20:56] good news

[01:20:57] Mulhollandrov is back.

[01:20:58] Interesting news

[01:20:59] the third act

[01:21:00] is you as a new character

[01:21:01] there's lots of sex scenes

[01:21:03] there's going to be nudity

[01:21:04] this is going to now

[01:21:05] be a feature film

[01:21:06] in like you know

[01:21:06] Europe.

[01:21:07] And so your contract

[01:21:09] completely changes

[01:21:10] I'm assuming

[01:21:11] there's some sort of

[01:21:13] renegotiation of the salary

[01:21:14] because it's so different.

[01:21:16] Yeah.

[01:21:17] There has to be.

[01:21:17] Right?

[01:21:18] Yes.

[01:21:19] Yes.

[01:21:19] Oh 100%.

[01:21:20] Yeah.

[01:21:20] Yeah.

[01:21:21] I mean I do think

[01:21:23] it's one of the fascinating

[01:21:24] just sort of like

[01:21:25] in the soup things

[01:21:26] about this movie

[01:21:27] is when her character

[01:21:29] shifts

[01:21:29] it's not just that she

[01:21:30] is a skilled actress

[01:21:31] who is playing

[01:21:32] a second character

[01:21:33] but it's like

[01:21:34] you feel like

[01:21:35] she is a fundamentally

[01:21:37] different actor.

[01:21:38] I can't.

[01:21:39] It's incredible.

[01:21:40] is different to the parts

[01:21:41] in terms of process

[01:21:42] not in terms of

[01:21:43] interpretation of character

[01:21:44] where I'm like

[01:21:45] this is the difference

[01:21:46] of when she's

[01:21:47] shooting the pilot

[01:21:47] it's that nervous

[01:21:48] pilot energy

[01:21:49] of like

[01:21:50] this might be

[01:21:51] the next 15 years

[01:21:52] of my life

[01:21:52] am I on this forever

[01:21:53] this is my big shot

[01:21:54] and then by the time

[01:21:55] they go and film

[01:21:56] the third act

[01:21:56] she's gone through

[01:21:58] the process of like

[01:21:59] grieving for the thing

[01:22:00] that went away.

[01:22:01] That's right.

[01:22:01] That's right.

[01:22:01] I guess it doesn't

[01:22:02] fucking happen

[01:22:03] and coming back

[01:22:04] to do it

[01:22:04] you feel her having

[01:22:05] kind of

[01:22:06] don't give a shit

[01:22:07] energy.

[01:22:08] They also like

[01:22:09] magically fuck up

[01:22:10] her teeth

[01:22:10] it's incredible

[01:22:11] I don't know

[01:22:11] what they did.

[01:22:12] What was that?

[01:22:12] I don't know.

[01:22:13] It's so weird.

[01:22:13] It's so weird.

[01:22:14] But you know what I'm saying.

[01:22:15] I do know what you're saying.

[01:22:16] There's a sense of abandon

[01:22:17] with how she plays

[01:22:19] someone who doesn't

[01:22:20] have anything to prove.

[01:22:21] So they shot it

[01:22:21] just to answer your question

[01:22:23] Griff

[01:22:23] in October 2000

[01:22:24] so we're talking

[01:22:25] basically like

[01:22:26] close to 18 months

[01:22:27] after they shot

[01:22:28] you know the original.

[01:22:29] Imagine the fucking cycles.

[01:22:31] It is a mind fuck.

[01:22:32] Yeah.

[01:22:33] Of the true

[01:22:33] like creative career

[01:22:35] grieving

[01:22:35] in those 18 months.

[01:22:37] Yeah.

[01:22:37] The film premieres

[01:22:38] at the 2001

[01:22:39] Cannes Film Festival

[01:22:40] Liv Ullman's jury

[01:22:41] insane journey

[01:22:42] jury gives it

[01:22:43] to The Sun's Room

[01:22:43] the Palme d'Or

[01:22:44] which is like

[01:22:45] an okay movie.

[01:22:47] It splits best director

[01:22:48] with man who wasn't there.

[01:22:49] Lynch shares

[01:22:50] the best director prize

[01:22:51] with Joel Cohen.

[01:22:52] Wait what one?

[01:22:52] The Sun's Room

[01:22:54] it's an Italian drama

[01:22:55] about a family

[01:22:55] that loses.

[01:22:55] Of course you remember.

[01:22:56] The film that beat

[01:22:57] Sun's Room.

[01:22:59] It comes out

[01:23:00] it was released

[01:23:01] by Universal

[01:23:02] slash Focus

[01:23:02] in America

[01:23:03] came out October 2001

[01:23:05] expanded to about

[01:23:06] 250 screens

[01:23:07] made about

[01:23:07] 7 million domestic

[01:23:08] 20 million dollars

[01:23:09] worldwide

[01:23:10] and was well received.

[01:23:12] It might seem like

[01:23:13] weird like

[01:23:13] the Sun's Room

[01:23:15] beat Mulholland Drive

[01:23:16] and man who wasn't there

[01:23:18] that feels like rude

[01:23:19] and then you step back

[01:23:20] and you're like

[01:23:21] well if you look at

[01:23:21] the Cannes competition

[01:23:22] slate in 2001

[01:23:23] Mulholland Drive

[01:23:24] did win one award

[01:23:25] over Shrek.

[01:23:28] Shrek was there.

[01:23:28] I just want everyone

[01:23:29] to think about

[01:23:30] they were in

[01:23:31] competition

[01:23:32] the same year.

[01:23:34] Who's that?

[01:23:35] Who's that Cannes?

[01:23:37] Yep.

[01:23:37] 2001 Cannes Film Festival

[01:23:39] a great slate

[01:23:41] including

[01:23:48] might win.

[01:23:49] Mulholland Drive

[01:23:51] The Piano Teacher

[01:23:52] the Haneke movie

[01:23:53] Oh my god

[01:23:54] I love that movie.

[01:23:54] The Sun's Room

[01:23:55] What Time Is It There

[01:23:56] one of my favorite movies

[01:23:57] and of course Shrek.

[01:23:58] Yeah no this slate

[01:23:58] it makes perfect sense

[01:23:59] that The Sun's Room won.

[01:24:01] I love The Piano Teacher

[01:24:01] I think The Sun's Room

[01:24:02] which I have seen

[01:24:03] was just

[01:24:04] it's a weepy

[01:24:04] it's a well made

[01:24:07] drama

[01:24:07] that's well acted

[01:24:08] Yeah like Shrek

[01:24:09] Yeah like Shrek

[01:24:11] Mulholland Drive

[01:24:11] came out

[01:24:12] and yeah people

[01:24:12] thought it was okay

[01:24:13] and so Ben

[01:24:14] do you want to hit stop

[01:24:15] on the recording

[01:24:16] we're done?

[01:24:16] Thank you so much

[01:24:17] Let's talk about Mulholland Drive

[01:24:19] Film begins

[01:24:20] with a jitterbuggy

[01:24:23] scene

[01:24:24] jitterbugging scene

[01:24:25] my god

[01:24:25] When we did our

[01:24:27] Crouching Tiger

[01:24:28] Hidden Dragon episode

[01:24:29] with David Ehrlich

[01:24:29] he said

[01:24:30] has any movie

[01:24:31] ever announced

[01:24:32] it's a masterpiece

[01:24:33] faster than

[01:24:34] Crouching Tiger does

[01:24:35] which he said

[01:24:36] half is a joke

[01:24:37] but he was just like

[01:24:38] the title

[01:24:38] the beginning

[01:24:39] of the score

[01:24:40] the first image

[01:24:41] you see of the city

[01:24:42] I'm not saying

[01:24:43] the opening of this movie

[01:24:44] is bad

[01:24:45] but if you were to

[01:24:46] pause it

[01:24:47] on the first

[01:24:47] 15 seconds

[01:24:49] I don't think

[01:24:50] most people

[01:24:50] which I just did

[01:24:51] would expect

[01:24:52] flat out masterpiece

[01:24:53] widely accepted

[01:24:54] as one of the

[01:24:54] greatest films

[01:24:55] That's so funny

[01:24:56] of you to say

[01:24:57] It does not begin

[01:24:57] like a masterpiece

[01:24:58] in an obvious way

[01:24:59] Well okay

[01:25:00] I suppose

[01:25:00] I love

[01:25:01] I think it's

[01:25:02] a great opening

[01:25:04] I pointed out

[01:25:04] to my friend

[01:25:05] recently like

[01:25:05] that's the

[01:25:06] jitterbug competition

[01:25:07] and she was like

[01:25:08] oh I never thought

[01:25:09] about it that way

[01:25:09] I just kind of

[01:25:10] let that wash over me

[01:25:11] and I was like

[01:25:11] oh okay

[01:25:12] well that's the

[01:25:13] that she says

[01:25:14] she won a

[01:25:14] jitterbugging competition

[01:25:15] Oh shit

[01:25:17] See I was surprised

[01:25:19] to realize

[01:25:19] a lot of people

[01:25:20] don't put this

[01:25:20] together

[01:25:21] because they're like

[01:25:21] oh I'm in a

[01:25:22] David Lynch movie

[01:25:23] Yeah I didn't put that

[01:25:24] together

[01:25:24] I thought he was just

[01:25:26] referencing swing

[01:25:27] That's what I thought

[01:25:28] too

[01:25:28] I thought it was

[01:25:28] swing dancing

[01:25:29] doing like a sock

[01:25:30] and I was like

[01:25:30] oh it's like

[01:25:31] people changing

[01:25:31] positions

[01:25:32] and whatever

[01:25:32] Yeah I did

[01:25:33] I did

[01:25:33] I did think

[01:25:34] that was

[01:25:34] Well

[01:25:35] clearly I didn't

[01:25:36] read the ten clues

[01:25:37] clearly enough

[01:25:38] because number one

[01:25:39] pay particular

[01:25:39] attention in the

[01:25:41] beginning of the film

[01:25:42] at least two clues

[01:25:43] are revealed

[01:25:44] before the credits

[01:25:45] The most important

[01:25:46] thing before the credits

[01:25:47] and the thing

[01:25:48] that makes me laugh

[01:25:49] every time I think

[01:25:50] about Mulholland Drive

[01:25:51] and how people

[01:25:52] are like

[01:25:52] what is going on

[01:25:54] and when I say people

[01:25:56] I realize I'm talking

[01:25:57] about abstract things

[01:25:58] lots of people

[01:25:59] understand Mulholland Drive

[01:26:00] very well

[01:26:02] You have the jitterbug

[01:26:03] Thank you David

[01:26:03] I'm not saying you

[01:26:04] I'm saying like

[01:26:05] I just hate saying you

[01:26:06] Oh so you think

[01:26:06] I don't understand

[01:26:07] You don't understand

[01:26:07] shit

[01:26:08] No no

[01:26:08] I didn't know

[01:26:09] it was the jitterbug

[01:26:10] Then there is a

[01:26:10] point of view shot

[01:26:11] of someone's head

[01:26:13] hitting a pillow

[01:26:14] Hitting a pillow

[01:26:14] Sure

[01:26:14] That is like

[01:26:16] it's like

[01:26:17] it feels like a studio

[01:26:18] I know it wasn't

[01:26:19] like the studio being like

[01:26:20] I don't know

[01:26:21] that people are gonna get

[01:26:22] that it's a dream

[01:26:23] Can we have like

[01:26:24] a shot of someone

[01:26:24] going sleepy time

[01:26:25] bed bys on their

[01:26:26] big red pillow

[01:26:27] Yeah

[01:26:27] Like I'm just worried

[01:26:29] Like it's just funny

[01:26:30] Yes

[01:26:31] That the movie starts

[01:26:32] with someone going to sleep

[01:26:33] And people are like

[01:26:34] I don't fucking get it

[01:26:36] The dream begins

[01:26:36] What could this

[01:26:38] To be clear

[01:26:38] I know lots of people get it

[01:26:40] It's a dream story

[01:26:42] Yes

[01:26:43] Yeah so it begins

[01:26:44] with someone going to sleep

[01:26:46] and then

[01:26:46] we see the opening credits

[01:26:48] which were the opening credits

[01:26:49] of the pilot

[01:26:49] which are the car

[01:26:50] snaking through Mulholland Drive

[01:26:52] as that beautiful music plays

[01:26:53] the title shot

[01:26:55] of the you know

[01:26:56] the sign

[01:26:57] with the lights

[01:26:58] flickering on it

[01:26:59] such a cool shot

[01:27:00] credits rolling

[01:27:01] and Laura Herring

[01:27:02] this glam bomb

[01:27:04] of a lady

[01:27:05] Sure

[01:27:05] in a slinky dress

[01:27:07] Yeah

[01:27:08] is going to get murdered

[01:27:09] in the car

[01:27:10] we assume

[01:27:11] or right outside of it

[01:27:12] Is being driven to

[01:27:13] it feels like

[01:27:14] nowhere good

[01:27:15] Right

[01:27:15] It's just immediate

[01:27:16] bad vibes

[01:27:16] Get out of the car

[01:27:17] Right

[01:27:18] Like they have a gun

[01:27:19] and then some joyriding teens

[01:27:20] disrupt this assassination

[01:27:22] and cause a big car crash

[01:27:23] and then she stumbles

[01:27:25] down the hills

[01:27:26] into LA

[01:27:27] Right

[01:27:28] The city of angels

[01:27:29] And as she stumbles

[01:27:30] her memories fall out

[01:27:31] Yes

[01:27:32] It's also very comical

[01:27:35] that she travels

[01:27:36] from Mulholland Drive

[01:27:39] on foot

[01:27:41] Yep

[01:27:41] to West Hollywood

[01:27:44] Very much my experience

[01:27:45] of Los Angeles

[01:27:46] And it's still

[01:27:46] and it's still nighttime

[01:27:47] That was my

[01:27:48] It's just

[01:27:48] She would

[01:27:49] That would take her

[01:27:50] a day and a half

[01:27:50] Yeah

[01:27:51] A day and a half

[01:27:52] It's also

[01:27:52] She's in high heels

[01:27:54] How's she scaling this?

[01:27:55] It's just

[01:27:56] It's just

[01:27:56] I know

[01:27:57] I know I shouldn't take it

[01:27:58] Hint

[01:27:58] Right

[01:27:59] I got that

[01:27:59] Something was askew

[01:28:00] No you're right

[01:28:01] You're right

[01:28:01] Pre-Rideshare apps

[01:28:02] when I would go out to LA

[01:28:03] to like piloties

[01:28:05] and do auditions

[01:28:05] Yes

[01:28:06] Fucking take meetings

[01:28:06] whatever

[01:28:07] Yeah

[01:28:07] I'd show up at places

[01:28:08] and they'd be like

[01:28:09] do you need parking validated?

[01:28:11] And I'd be like

[01:28:11] no I walked

[01:28:12] Yeah

[01:28:12] And they'd go from where

[01:28:13] and I'd go Santa Monica

[01:28:14] And they were like

[01:28:15] that would take five hours

[01:28:16] And I was like

[01:28:17] yes it took five hours

[01:28:18] That's why I'm caked and slept

[01:28:19] I would just fucking walk

[01:28:21] I took the bus

[01:28:23] I straight up took the bus

[01:28:24] I would do that as well

[01:28:25] If I could take the bus

[01:28:26] I would take the bus

[01:28:27] Yeah

[01:28:27] Sometimes the bus

[01:28:29] was so complicated

[01:28:30] It's complicated

[01:28:30] In terms of the amount

[01:28:30] of transfers

[01:28:31] A lot of transfers

[01:28:32] Or you miss the time

[01:28:33] and you're like

[01:28:33] the next one's in half an hour

[01:28:35] It's actually faster

[01:28:36] if I walk for two hours

[01:28:38] Yeah

[01:28:40] I'm surprised he didn't skateboard

[01:28:42] I'm not that cool

[01:28:43] Then

[01:28:45] the next thing we see

[01:28:46] is the great Robert Forster

[01:28:48] looking like

[01:28:49] a primo snack

[01:28:50] A million bucks

[01:28:51] Yeah he looks great

[01:28:52] He really looks good

[01:28:53] The great Brent Brisco

[01:28:54] Brent Brisco

[01:28:56] who's

[01:28:56] We've shouted out

[01:28:57] A guy we've covered a lot on the show

[01:28:58] A Raimi favorite

[01:28:59] Exactly

[01:29:00] Great character actor

[01:29:01] But it is so funny

[01:29:02] where you're like

[01:29:03] well these two guys

[01:29:04] would be like

[01:29:05] the sort of like

[01:29:06] Greek chorus

[01:29:07] of the mystery

[01:29:08] you imagine

[01:29:09] on a series version of this

[01:29:11] Not to talk about the pilot

[01:29:12] too much

[01:29:12] but weirdly

[01:29:12] Briscoe is in the opening credits

[01:29:14] and Robert Forster is credited

[01:29:16] as a special guest star

[01:29:17] Now I don't know

[01:29:18] if that's Forster

[01:29:18] just getting some kind of like

[01:29:20] special billing

[01:29:21] Can I tell you

[01:29:22] what my guess would be

[01:29:23] and Leslie

[01:29:23] I think you'll probably

[01:29:24] back me up on this

[01:29:25] especially at this point in time

[01:29:27] where people who were

[01:29:27] considered movie actors

[01:29:29] there was a stigma

[01:29:30] against TV

[01:29:31] Yes

[01:29:31] Very often

[01:29:32] It's like how

[01:29:33] Edward Herman

[01:29:33] is always billed

[01:29:35] as a special appearance

[01:29:36] on Gilmore Girls

[01:29:36] Right

[01:29:37] Even though he's in every episode

[01:29:37] Where they're like

[01:29:38] even if you have

[01:29:39] like a contractual

[01:29:40] you're guaranteed

[01:29:41] X number of episodes

[01:29:42] you don't want to be

[01:29:44] locked into the regular thing

[01:29:45] where they actually own you

[01:29:46] Yeah

[01:29:47] Yeah

[01:29:47] For seven seasons

[01:29:48] That's the thing

[01:29:49] That's the thing

[01:29:50] At pilot stage

[01:29:51] you're signing up

[01:29:51] for seven seasons

[01:29:52] potentially

[01:29:52] So a guy like Forster

[01:29:53] is like

[01:29:54] I will probably do

[01:29:54] every episode

[01:29:55] but you need to structure

[01:29:56] my contract

[01:29:57] in a way where

[01:29:57] I could bail it

[01:29:58] I could leave it anytime

[01:29:59] Yeah

[01:29:59] So we see Laura

[01:30:01] Herring

[01:30:01] her character

[01:30:03] is not yet named

[01:30:04] but will take the name

[01:30:05] Rita

[01:30:05] She has amnesia

[01:30:07] She sees a gilderpost

[01:30:08] Hiding

[01:30:09] Right

[01:30:09] But she hides out

[01:30:10] in this woman's house

[01:30:11] You see this woman

[01:30:12] with red hair

[01:30:13] who we actually see again

[01:30:14] at the end of the movie

[01:30:15] Right

[01:30:16] Supposedly Diane

[01:30:16] sees a woman

[01:30:17] leaving the house

[01:30:18] and is like

[01:30:19] great open house

[01:30:21] And goes and hides out

[01:30:22] The next scene in the film

[01:30:24] is the Winkie's Diner scene

[01:30:25] Yeah

[01:30:25] It comes quite early

[01:30:27] I was

[01:30:28] really did not remember

[01:30:29] that it was that

[01:30:30] early

[01:30:32] I didn't either

[01:30:33] in which Patrick Fishler

[01:30:34] and who's the other guy

[01:30:37] That's a good question

[01:30:38] He's got

[01:30:39] because he's also got

[01:30:39] kind of a recognizable face

[01:30:41] Yes

[01:30:42] Are sitting at Winkie's Diner

[01:30:44] which

[01:30:44] Is it Denny's?

[01:30:46] Right

[01:30:46] At Gower Gulch

[01:30:47] which is

[01:30:48] just

[01:30:49] Is it still there?

[01:30:51] The Denny's

[01:30:52] probably not

[01:30:53] When I lived there

[01:30:54] it was

[01:30:54] It's on

[01:30:56] Gower and Sunset

[01:30:58] And it's this weird little

[01:30:59] I mean I know

[01:31:00] it has some history

[01:31:01] of like the Copper Penny

[01:31:02] or whatever

[01:31:02] but like

[01:31:03] you know

[01:31:04] in the mid 2000s

[01:31:05] when I was there

[01:31:06] the Denny's

[01:31:06] was still there

[01:31:08] and

[01:31:09] it was

[01:31:10] it's like a little

[01:31:11] strip molly

[01:31:12] The actor's name

[01:31:12] is Michael Cook

[01:31:13] Okay

[01:31:14] found out

[01:31:14] What's he from?

[01:31:16] Just a bunch of shit

[01:31:17] Not much

[01:31:18] Yeah

[01:31:18] No offense

[01:31:19] Yeah

[01:31:21] Embarrassing for him

[01:31:22] How embarrassing

[01:31:23] He played Casino

[01:31:25] Letcher

[01:31:26] in Showgirls

[01:31:27] Well hey

[01:31:28] so he's one of our favorites

[01:31:29] Sorry

[01:31:30] about the Denny's

[01:31:31] yes

[01:31:31] No no no

[01:31:31] it just

[01:31:32] when I was talking about

[01:31:34] you know

[01:31:34] these kind of

[01:31:35] spaces in Los Angeles

[01:31:37] this scene

[01:31:38] very much

[01:31:39] sums up that

[01:31:41] you know

[01:31:42] shitty

[01:31:43] middle of

[01:31:44] middle of nowhere

[01:31:44] but in the midst

[01:31:46] of everything

[01:31:46] Yeah

[01:31:47] and by the way

[01:31:47] these are the types

[01:31:48] of spaces

[01:31:49] where I feel

[01:31:49] most comfortable

[01:31:50] in LA

[01:31:51] But I think

[01:31:52] like these weird

[01:31:53] like

[01:31:53] what is this diner

[01:31:55] that feels like

[01:31:55] it's in the middle

[01:31:56] of the suburbs

[01:31:57] but is actually

[01:31:57] but it's actually

[01:31:58] on sunset

[01:31:59] and feels kind of

[01:32:00] frozen in time

[01:32:01] like when I would

[01:32:02] take these fucking

[01:32:02] two hour walks

[01:32:03] to appointments

[01:32:03] Yeah

[01:32:04] and I could find

[01:32:05] a diner like that

[01:32:06] in between

[01:32:06] I'd go inside

[01:32:07] and I'd be like

[01:32:07] I feel safe now

[01:32:08] Yeah

[01:32:09] Well that's true

[01:32:09] Yeah

[01:32:10] Psychologically

[01:32:11] Yeah

[01:32:11] Not like

[01:32:12] from Assassins

[01:32:13] I think what

[01:32:14] Leslie said is

[01:32:15] is interesting

[01:32:16] Yeah

[01:32:17] Because I know

[01:32:17] what do you guys

[01:32:18] think of the

[01:32:18] winky scene

[01:32:19] it's an incredible

[01:32:19] scene

[01:32:20] I've never been

[01:32:20] so scared

[01:32:21] in a movie theater

[01:32:22] in my life

[01:32:22] Well it sets you

[01:32:23] off balance