Munich with Emily St. James

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Wait, what? Is that the tagline? That's the tagline for the movie Great tagline

[00:00:37] What a somber beginning Hey everybody, I'm David Sims My name is Griffin Newman This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David This is a show, hashtag the two friends That's very important, I almost forgot that We're two friends, we host a podcast together

[00:00:55] That's our competitive advantage It's unique That's the secret we cracked I'm looking at quotes from Munich That's proprietary, but we talk about movies on the show We like directors and filmographies And looking at the context of what happens when someone has a massive success

[00:01:14] Early on, they become a brand and they get a series of Blank Check It's funny that you're doing this for Spielberg Because it's not really the premise of the Spielberg podcast No, sometimes those checks clear And sometimes they bounce baby

[00:01:26] And sometimes you save up enough checks that you buy a studio You found a studio with two other really rich guys And then you just make whatever the fuck you want This is a movie series about Stevie Spielberg It's called Pobby If You Cast

[00:01:40] And it's about Spielberg and the Dreamworks series And this is kind of a midpoint This is kind of a fulcrum film I guess so It's a fulcrum film? I'd say maybe this is like the halfway point of our mini-series It probably is

[00:01:57] I'm not cracking the hard rap out there I think it's about there And this is an interesting one because The film we're talking about today is Munich Yeah It's a two hour, 45 minute laugh riot It's long It's serious political Spielberg One of the modes he goes into

[00:02:17] It's push to Spielberg Which is the beginning of that new genre Right This film was part of this phenomenon That we keep on talking about when Spielberg tried to do A two for a year Yeah, well three and two I call it a three and two

[00:02:33] Why do you call it three and two? Because it's a lost world Amistad saving for a riot Three movies in two years Oh interesting AI Minority Report, catch me if you can And then this time it's Terminal War of the World's Munich Interesting

[00:02:49] He keeps on gunning for this one specific year thing Which is Can I make a huge blockbuster And a huge Oscar film And this film was paired up with War of the Worlds And they're interesting because both films are closer to the middle

[00:03:01] Yeah, they're both very very grim Right, they're both very very grim And Munich is pretty violent In actiony, not in like a cathartic Popcorny way But for an Oscar movie And War of the Worlds was pretty grim and bleak For a popcorn movie Yeah, not much action

[00:03:19] And War of the Worlds made a lot of money But mixed response and Wasn't the number one movie of the year And this movie got a bunch of Oscar nominations But didn't win any It's one of his least seen films

[00:03:31] But it's an interesting film, we have a very exciting guest On the show You're supposed to talk before we introduce you Or interrupt us or make some annoying comment I thought you'd yell it I'm a very good boy

[00:03:43] This is the most polite guest we've ever had on the show Usually people are jumping in They're hot takes, they're cold takes The Redditors are gonna make a politeness ranking And he'll be number one Yeah, you know him from The AV Club Back in the day

[00:03:59] When the two of you were bosom buddies We still are We're still really Not as tidy as you two I would say that we are Hashtag really good friends I'm not trying to argue that David and I are best friends And that there isn't room for other friends

[00:04:15] I'm not saying that we are the two friends I'm not saying we're better friends than anyone else I'm not saying our friendship is better than anyone else's friendship We are friends and they're two of us That's a fact Can't argue with it And we're the only ones

[00:04:29] And the two of you might still be bosom buddies But used to be suckling at the same bosom Is that what bosom buddies refers to? I think so I believe that if you think of the AV Club as a giant wolf Yeah, right

[00:04:41] We once both had separate wolf teats We were like Romulus and Remus Now we have different wolves And your new wolf is Fox Fox Yeah, it's less of a wolf It doesn't I was going to make a fox joke

[00:04:57] Remember how at the end of every episode of bosom buddies Peter Scolari and Tom Hanks would like recount what happened in their day Walls sucking at the breast Wolf Of course they do Todd Vander Wolfe is our guest One of the biggest hits of the 80s

[00:05:11] Thank you so much for being here I've been on your podcast many times Is it dormant? I suppose it's dormant Libby and I keep thinking we're going to relaunch it It's called TV on the internet It's still on the internet and you can still find it

[00:05:25] And it's still about TV Yeah, it's still about TV But yeah, it's dormant now because Libby works for a print publication And so they're not They're weird about the internet They're weird about the internet So, yeah What was I going to say?

[00:05:41] Well you're here to talk about movie And you're in town You're from the city of angels La La Land Which at this point is probably one best picture This episode won't post for a long time At this point everybody's fucking sick of that movie There's been a backlash

[00:05:57] Can we do this actually? I'm going to say Moonlight This will probably post in March I'm going to say Moonlight You say La La Land and let's not talk about it for the rest of the episode But let's just pick our bets at that You're calling a shot

[00:06:11] I'll say La La Land as well I don't think Moonlight has the juice I mean we like the movie To be clear Once again, look I'm on the record as having Moonlight as my movie of the year I sense A surge coming in like January

[00:06:27] But right now we're recording in December This is going to look hot I don't want to put the chips on Moonlight right now Because I'm sensing a January-February surge But this is very low stakes because like Who fucking cares?

[00:06:39] In March people will be like, oh well he was wrong Yeah right, whatever Or they might be like, we must join the resistance Oscars don't matter Who cares what happened at the last Oscars Anyway Sorry

[00:06:53] I don't need to joke about whatever horrible shit might be happening in the future If I was really courageous I'd put my bet on a movie I'm lucky about now where if it loses Or doesn't even get nominated Then it'll look like it was just a joke

[00:07:05] And if it wins I look like the single smartest man in history Exactly, it's the old Shakespeare and Love trick you pulled Right, yeah And for that reason I'm predicting that Collateral Beauty takes home Seven Academy Awards But all technical Film is a work of technical precision

[00:07:19] Alright so Todd We've known each other A very long time And we met as Oscar prognosticators On the message boards? I've heard of these fable boards We used to ride the board Yeah, yeah And I remember 2005 What was the hot movie of two? Crash It was The Crash

[00:07:45] Was the hot movie What a weird Oscar race That was kind of a muted Oscar race It was I recall the first year in a long time That none of the movies had scored More than 100 million And that was considered a big Shocker

[00:08:01] Well Brokeback was the highest grossing and it did 85 Right? Yeah you had some sleepers in there Crash obviously was a summer movie That had built a little Good Night and Good Luck Capotees, these very Glum movies It was a dour year It was the year of Katrina

[00:08:21] It was the year of the post-bush 2005 We were in the thick of it What I remembered is that Todd loved Munik at the time And when the words munik bubbled into my brain And Todd bubbled into my brain For our podcast I was like

[00:08:37] Todd's got to talk about munik Well here's what I remember about the munik thing Because I wasn't, I might have been lurking Those boards, I was certainly checking Oscar sites all the time I was deep in it I remembered there was I remember it was very supportive because

[00:08:53] Both War of the Worlds and munik Got pushed in production very quickly Right And munik was like, he had been thinking about Making it for a while and then suddenly it was like He's making it, it's a three month schedule

[00:09:05] They're shooting it in the summer, it's coming out in the fall People almost couldn't Believe that it would actually make it out Because it seemed so hard to turn it around It got screened very late I think they started production in June It was kind of crazy

[00:09:19] It was kind of like mystery box heat Of like Spielberg's got this burning passion Sure, and of course he's making a historical True story movie Like surely that'll be a big deal And this has been like his Oscar zone before And I remember He had a cover story

[00:09:35] Of Time Magazine And I forget what the headline was But it was like, you know, Steven's back You know Steven Spielberg's secret important film Or whatever it was And the narrative I kept on seeing repeated And the rest leading up to the release of the movie was like

[00:09:49] Yeah, I know Steven Spielberg has two best director trophies But he wants three They kept on saying like yes He's the most celebrated and successful director of his generation But Howard Hawks had four You know, it was like that kind of thing

[00:10:02] Which was the least sympathetic narrative of all time But I remember people being like He's gonna drop this movie, it's gonna come out late And it's just gonna fucking sweep Because Brokeback at that point was like the one to beat But you could already

[00:10:13] People are like, oh it's so sad Like are the Oscars, are they ready for a game movie? Which they ultimately proved they weren't Right? And Crash at the time was like Oh, I guess it's gonna get nominated It has its fans

[00:10:26] But it didn't seem like it had the juice to win I mean when you think about Todd Crash, Todd And when you think about Todd, Crash It is crazy that they're going to like it Crash Bandics is also in the studio today It came out too bad review

[00:10:36] Crash came out to very mediocre reviews There were some people, I mean Roger Ebert loved it Yes he did And he stumped for it the whole time But New York Times and LA Times both destroyed it Yeah they both like trashed And Variety and Hollerhead They trashed Crash

[00:10:49] But it was a sort of a surprise hit And like it was like it's one of those LA things where people get very excited about like Here we are on screen, it's very weird Yeah Well it's that thing of like

[00:11:02] Oh my god this movie speaks to what we're going through as a nation It's like no this movie speaks to what you're going through As a voting member of the academy As a Hollywood executive Yeah Being asked to cast people in movies Yeah it was a movie

[00:11:12] As Tony Danza It was a movie about racism made to a swage Rich white people Yes They weren't that racist Right Which is the academy Didn't Spanglish come out the same year? Year before, 2004 It's just there's a lot of real white guilt movies

[00:11:26] Like written by like established Hollywood people Who were obviously like Wanted to wrestle with issues But like you could not find the right track You know not find the right way to do it And probably shouldn't have been the people doing it in the first place

[00:11:39] But I think yeah Post 9-11 in the middle of two wars I think there was a lot of like looking in the mirror Being like are we the fucking bad guys Yeah sure But ultimately going like nah not really Right

[00:11:50] Like all those movies kind of went like ehh I don't know And Munich's interesting because Munich really is Like wrestling with that it has no need to answer Well Munich's actually good Right Right As opposed to the other movies

[00:12:00] I cry I mean this is kind of the start of a really Like dark period of Oscar Best Picture Winners Like I mean Crash is not an especially dark winner Whenever you get departed You've got no country for old men Crash is pretty dark

[00:12:10] You've got you've got Hurt Locker in there So it's like this it's this list of movies that are like You know we've abandoned the American ideal Well I guess we might as well die And it is interesting Even Swamp Dog Millionaire which is the like feel good

[00:12:22] Winner of 08 Like that's that's a that's a dark movie Yeah And then The Artist Which Is A Feel Good Movie Is also a fucking silent film Like we have this run where for like a number of years None of the Best Picture Winners are traditional Best Picture Movies

[00:12:35] Sure So where do you think In very unconventional trappings So when do you think it swings back around Well King's Speech in 2010 I think is the outlier Sure cause that is That's a classic Best Picture movie I could have won it in 1950 Right

[00:12:46] And then I think it swings back I don't think it's swung back Cause you the next then you've got Birdman and Spotlight I think it's still like I think Argo's kind of a classic Best Picture Winner I do I'm a slav No No It's a thing

[00:12:59] Like they've made some wild choices They made some wild choices Assuming while all the land wins it will be But if moonlight wins And you're the genius And I'm the genius Or collateral beauty Yeah you're hedging But with collateral beauty I hedged my bets Yeah

[00:13:12] I love Oscar talk guys I don't know It is funny though that we're Because yeah Munich I feel like Todd correct me if I'm wrong The reception of Munich was so Muted and confused All over the place Yeah So all over the place That it was almost surprising

[00:13:25] That I was a little bit A little bit of a surprise I think it's a little bit of a surprise I think it's a little bit of a surprise I think it's a little bit of a surprise I think it's a little bit of a surprise

[00:13:31] That it was almost surprising When it did eventually It did get to the Moscow It got nominated for picture Director, screenplay, score Everybody thought it was good Everybody thought Spielberg would Get nominated but the movie Would get edged out by Walk the Line

[00:13:43] Yes Walk the Line was the big And like you know It didn't get a lot of precursor You know like Golden Globe shit You know like so yeah so It was that weird arc of Oh it's going to be The surprise sweep Of the whole season

[00:13:56] Then people saw it and they were like I don't know what the fuck this is They were like forget it Now It wasn't a contender Too weird Then it got a bunch of major nominations Didn't win any And it just kind of like

[00:14:05] Well the prize was being nominated Like it like No one ever viewed it I think it was probably the least Likely to win in the eyes of most people Of the five films Yeah although people did start Beating some drum that was like You know, Jews

[00:14:19] Like you know It is weird how sometimes People will just be like You know what When we're talking about the Oscars We can just sort of say out loud That they like Jewish things Like you know They can be like Get a little uncomfortable

[00:14:32] But no but this movie struggled With the perception that it was anti-Israel Yes As well Which is also kind of And sort of a less prominent But also from the What was the American left at the time Which was like very small But sort of the

[00:14:47] Counter-criticism of it Was too anti-Palestinian Of course Which is I mean as they say That's a good thing right When you're getting criticized From all sides In this movie's case I think I think so This is a thing I like in movies Which is

[00:15:01] Doesn't try to provide answers Tried to ask you questions It's like a fucking Worshack test movie In a lot of ways, you know The characters are I remember I think It was Minola's Argus It might have been I don't know what's bad But the New York Times

[00:15:14] Review of Munich When it came out Which was very positive And was one of the more Positive ones I remember reading At the immediate release I'm finding it The headline I think Was something like And you're probably Gonna now find it Have it right here I think it's

[00:15:28] An action movie about The importance of talking An action film about The need to talk Yeah It was Darjean Yeah, which I I had not seen this Movie until last night I somehow didn't see it At the time But for years For the last 10, 11 years

[00:15:42] I kept that in mind And watching this It really kind of Is the best description I've heard of The movie That's what it is It's this action movie That has no visceral Pleasures to hit Sure, no Because it's a bunch of People in a very Very different way

[00:15:57] But it still makes that action Pop That's the fun of him He gets you into it And you're like Oh, this is And then you immediately You're like, oh my god Why am I enjoying this It's that adage of All war films Or pro-war films Like violence translates

[00:16:11] Well to cinema Oh, sure, sure You know It always kind of Glorifies it to a degree Because it's kinetic And But I think this movie Works so hard to frame Every action sequence Whether it's kind of A thriller Tension sequence Or an exciting cathartic Or whatever it is

[00:16:29] It's so conflicted With everything it's doing I think it humanizes Almost every single character You meet in the entire film You know Even the characters Who are speaking A foreign language Without subtitles You get a real strong sense Of like that Greek guy In the movie Yeah, yeah

[00:16:46] Of like this is a real person You know one's just Like collateral damage In this movie Yeah And it, yeah It is It's a movie about Beauty though It is a movie about Like conversations And it reminds me a lot Of the conversation Interesting I think stylistically

[00:17:05] I had not watched it Since it came out Is that right? Yeah I saw it in theaters It was my favorite movie That year And then I saw it on DVD And I put it aside Because you know Where are you going to make Two hours and 44 minutes

[00:17:18] I almost bought it And I was like I'm probably not going to rewatch It even if I buy it Sometimes you're just A nice Thursday Munich Like all of the scenes I remembered were like Quiet conversations Yeah The conversation in the Safe house with the Palestinian guy

[00:17:32] Yes, absolutely And the conversation with Papa Like I remembered those scenes I did not necessarily remember The visceral action sequences Yeah Which are there And are great I remembered I remembered one of the I remembered the And I forgot how the Hostage You know how the

[00:17:49] Recreation of the Munich massacre is done And I remembered that very Viscerally And then in the movie When it starts And you only see Second of it at the start You know I was like Oh maybe I forgot that it's Dribs and drabs And then of course

[00:18:03] I remembered the sexy Everybody remembers And I remember the talk About the sexy And that was the other Thing this movie This movie has a very Intense Strangely shot We can talk about The sex scene later It's also kind of Like the only full

[00:18:16] Sex scene of his entire Career It's true Spielberg doesn't It's like what's another Spielberg movie With like an actually Intimately shot Sex scene I don't know And it's got two Essentially And then you also have The whole thing with Marisa Jose Crows Which is just like

[00:18:32] Even nudity you don't Usually see in Spielberg Movies Certainly not in a sexualized Contact And it's got Karen Hins' dick You see Karen Hins' shadowy Peanut That is a thing You see Gotta talk about it You see a Shadow cast Tallywacker of Karen Hins And then

[00:18:50] A lot of people came out And they were like I don't know It has this Crazy Sex scene That's really bad Like and that Suddenly became Like the Munich Problem Yeah I tweeted about Re-watching it Like half the tweet What about that Sex scene You know It's

[00:19:09] Such a weird Crazy notion But I think that The reason Spielberg Never has sex scenes Is because When Spielberg Has sex He's imagining Right Close For sure There must be a sex scene I mean I was trying to think of One other one You know

[00:19:26] And then when I was trying to Even just think of What are other Spielberg movies With nudity It's like Amistad and Schindler's list Like he only shows nudity When it's in Sort of like Human atrocities You know And I understand Like the biggest nude scene In this movie

[00:19:40] Catch me if you can That must have a sex scene I feel like It has scenes where they're Jumping on beds It has like Underwear We will have Re-watched it By the time this episode comes out But we're recording out of order I remember that movie

[00:19:53] Cutting away before the sex Ever happens Or showing people In bed right after sex Who are mostly clueless You know what So Spielberg's a bit of a prude But hey He's shot a sex scene That was one of the reasons Why everyone was so surprised When he gave

[00:20:05] The palm door to Blue is the warmest color He was like And I loved it He was like very Yeah This movie's great Good for him I mean you're forgetting The big sexy When he's just like Oh that is true Just walking around naked Yeah

[00:20:20] He's got the stove by bat over Yeah Okay Look Munich Very serious film War Wars 2 has a lot of sex scenes Munich So it's about The 1972 Munich Olympics Right as I covered in my introduction To this podcast Right And the Black September Hostage situation That went wrong

[00:20:42] And everyone died You know Palestinian Terrorist organization To costages I mean Jesus Christ Do I have to go through this Bad scene It was a bad time It was a bad one day in September The Kevin MacDonald documentary Which is very good And very very intense

[00:21:01] Has an interview with one of the Black September survivors One of the I think the only surviving member Of the attack maybe It's a good movie If you guys ever want to check it out Whatever happened to Kevin MacDonald Did he do like a YA movie

[00:21:15] With Seussha Ronan that barely got released He's made a lot Yeah, he did He's made a lot of weird feature films Since he switched over to that time He had a very strange Cause he made like Lasking a Scotland Right But then He's made a lot Holy cow

[00:21:29] He keeps working State of play Remember that Remember the eagle That's what people need Oh the Channing Tatum Yeah, Channing Tatum Roman Caper He made something called Marley I was at Bob Marley documentary Right How I Live Now That's the Seussha Ronan one Yeah

[00:21:48] And apparently he worked on that James Franco time travel TV show Oh he directed 11 No that's right he did do that Yeah So You guys You guys are blushing right now Cause it's a super star Yeah That guy's killing What a weird Yeah, okay

[00:22:04] And yeah he was in that He made that submarine movie With Jude Law that like Didn't come out in a very long time Black sea Black sea Yeah I don't know why we're talking about Kevin McDonald I mean I know why He's our next subject

[00:22:14] So but I mean At least listen to Miniseries in history But yeah, seriously So we start with a brief recreation Of the beginning of that hostage situation We cut to The biggest star in the movie You know her name Tell me your name I had Zora

[00:22:31] No what the fuck is her name Who plays Gold of My Ear What's the Lynn Cohen Oh Lynn Cohen Lynn Cohen She's Gold of My Ear Prime Minister of Israel Yeah she's really good She's great It's one fantastic scene Yeah And she's like We gotta

[00:22:45] You know how are we gonna respond to this Essentially Cause what happened was quickly The A lot of the surviving Black September Who were arrested And got released because of Another hostage situation The tons of crisis If you guys know Yeah So like everyone was mad

[00:22:58] And you know so they yeah How do we How do we address this As Israel As Jews As like people under attack What are we gonna do Going back one step Sure I do think it's interesting that in the opening Recreation a lot of it is retold

[00:23:11] Through news broadcasts Yeah Right there's that As the score is playing and stuff Not just archival footage but watching a lot of Different people across the world Watching the story be covered by different Anchors and different outlets Right and there was this Thing where like the

[00:23:27] Briefly all the reporters thought that It would resolve what like that the hostages Were okay And that these terrorists were dead And then they realized like no They're all gone There's that Is it Howard Cressel Who the hell is it who would know

[00:23:38] Yeah because it was there for the Olympics Right And he says they're all gone and it's I mean And it feels weird coming out of this Jim McKay says Jim McKay says they're all gone Yeah Yeah Um Crazy It's really interesting TN72 Yeah bizarre footage

[00:23:53] But I also think it immediately frames You know People would expect I think especially out of Steven Spielberg Making a movie out of this subject matter That he would give you a nice Lady way to interpret everything that happens Sure Right

[00:24:08] You know like here's how you should view it And especially when it's someone who has been Such a big supporter of Israel Throughout his life Right I mean yeah I mean we're watching all these different people Watch the story be covered in different ways

[00:24:21] And it kind of sets you up to think Like okay we're going to be given The news the straight facts that sort of way And then from then on out the movie is On the ground floor with people who don't really Know what the fuck they're doing

[00:24:33] And are wrestling with it And we don't really deal with the media again After the introduction No and I also like that We're focused on one team Of this operation Yeah You know that they organized it Operation what's it called Sort of vengeance or something crazy like that

[00:24:47] A wrath of God It's a very focused movie I mean they're not trying to cover the entirety Right and then only at the end of the movie Do we realize like right This was not like the whole operation This is just one team of essentially

[00:24:58] Assassins or you know like Spies Toy makers Toy makers Danish Antiquity What's the word for when you decide How much money something costs Appraisers Appraisers yes Yeah no just one team that is Right Cure in Hines is shadowy penis It's just a team an oddball team

[00:25:20] And the man attached to it as well He came along with the game Oh right he's in it I forgot about that I forgot that he's in it He's so good He's so good But come on guys It's just Lin Cohen Give it up for Lin Cohen

[00:25:31] Yeah great performance great performance I do remember that When people first started seeing this I think it was like David Poland It was like oh Lin Cohen There's your Oscar winner Watch out Yeah If Lin Cohen was in 25% of this movie giving that performance Like sure

[00:25:47] Yeah sure let's talk about it It was a very strange call It's just the one scene Can I throw some real inside baseball For one second Yeah sure If I were a rival studio And there was like you know

[00:25:57] A front runner who I felt stood in the way Of my contender I would hire David Poland to say That they were going to win That's the easiest way to knock someone Out of their running is for Dave Poland to go They're gonna win That's good Thank you

[00:26:11] Inside baseball done David Poland though Thanks dude Shout out Poland Shout out to Poland Okay alright I already told Todd this I forgot to tell you this last week And again this is months after the incident Jeff Wells emailed me What Isn't that crazy

[00:26:26] This is the most interesting Okay so context for our listeners Jeff Wells is I'm gonna find the email A troll who lives under a bridge on the internet And pokes people with a stick And just spouts lunacy He's done many terrible things

[00:26:40] But by far the weirdest is when he thought He had reserved a hotel room with a hat Yeah You can go and find that online If you search for it Do you not know this story Wait he thought the hotel room came with a hat Or

[00:26:51] Okay I gotta tell this for one second Because this is the best story of all time And even if you don't know Who the fuck were talking about The story is objectively funny He looks like He looks like Christopher Walken Cosplaying as a vampire Right

[00:27:03] Oh I've seen him in real life He looks like an aging Penny Marshall Right He's a misanthrope He's a misogynist He thinks like We all should be tough Tough guys Right He's very into like masculinity He's the Zen samurai warrior poet

[00:27:20] Isn't that his thing he always throws out I think so yeah Emotionally vivid Right So he and he does shit like he'll like Have a tinfoil wrapped piece of cake That'll bring to a restaurant And then he'll ask if they can serve him a plate

[00:27:32] So he can eat the dessert He brought from home And then get angry when they tell me Can't bring his own dessert into a fancy restaurant Right But the story is he was at Sundance Where rooms fill up like super quickly

[00:27:43] Far in advance people have to book their rooms at Sundance Because it's not a huge city And the desirable hotels That are close to where the theaters are Hard to come by He had a hotel room And when he left and he checked out

[00:27:53] Put his cowboy hat on the desk On the counter And said I'll be back for this next year Oh and he thought that was enough A year later he arrives at Sundance And goes Jeff Wells checking in And they go you don't have a room book

[00:28:05] And he goes online He goes on live Yeah I mean I think they had to dig through it They went we don't That was the further insult Was he went well what about my hand They went what fucking hand But he went online

[00:28:17] He went if a man leaves a hat on a counter It is very clear What does he think this is like dead wood Like it doesn't Yes that's the problem with Jeff Wells Is he thinks he's living in dead wood He thinks it's constantly a last stand

[00:28:26] For masculinity And his small movements Say volumes Speak volumes But he's a horrible person Yeah he's bad anyway he got mad at me Because I mentioned Casey Affleck's Legal issues And an Oscar prediction piece Just brought up the fact that This has been coming up

[00:28:45] That it's a fact and it's a case That's been public for fucking five or six years Yeah you know he was you know He was sued for sexual harassment He settled out of court And I said something like that That could come back to you know

[00:28:57] Haunt him in the Oscar race Or something like that Anyway he said that I was Falsely equating his Bourish behavior with Nate Parker How dare I you know And yeah The thing that Affleck's thing Direct quote Was nothing compared to the Parker thing Or the Polanski thing

[00:29:18] Tideus and unwelcome behavior That he paid to settle Yeah nice use of the word thing Much less match The Agnes and the Peoples associated with Parker This is my way of addressing it Todd Because I asked you what to do And you were like don't email back

[00:29:31] And I was like don't email back Also you know what Maybe let's not sit around And rank which sexual assaults Are worse or better than others I'm just realizing that sometime In March I'm going to get a tweet That's like an aging Penny Marshall

[00:29:47] And you're like what the fuck is that He does listen to this show And he's going to be our guest on the Tintin episode He also once and I think more than once But one time very publicly E-mailed James Mangold Director of 310 de Yuma

[00:30:02] Because there was a scene where Actress Vanessa Shaw was naked but covered And he believed that there must be Onset stills of her fully disrobed And asked her to just you know Pass along the stills Which is a thing that maniacs do

[00:30:18] And somehow didn't like kill his career I mean he's self employed What is his career exactly Right he has such an odd career But like he's I don't understand how Like he gets access He gets money Like he gets like he apparently lives A jet setting life

[00:30:32] I love that we're going this deep In the Jeff Lawson middle of the Munich of us That's enough sorry I'm sorry that I brought it up And we can cut it if we go too long here But I just had to tell you

[00:30:41] Oh but that's important for our listeners To know that a cowboy hat is not a binding Reservation Not at a restaurant Not at a hotel Also comes up in Munich It does I mean Emotionally vivid cowboy hat They traced the cowboy hat back to them

[00:30:56] That's how they know So Eric Bonner Yes The actor Eric Bonner And we I was looking through Eric Bonner What a like rapid rise and fall Weird And I got no beef with Eric Bonner I think he's excellent in this movie I don't know if you guys agree

[00:31:11] I agree It's funny how like this is the This is it This is the end of Eric Bonner This was like third strike You know you're at bat We're giving you three to be a leaning man And it was like Hulk Hulk in 03 People hate that movie

[00:31:26] Troy in 04 Right which did really well But people didn't like it really Not well remembered I guess And he certainly didn't really stick in that Although I'd say he's pretty good in it I think he's pretty good in Hulk too I think he's pretty much good

[00:31:39] He's a good one I mean Hulk's a weird movie Masterpiece Sure exactly And then Munich And then yeah after that like Lucky you two years later The other Berlin girl which I like Eric Bonner but he's horrible in that movie Yeah I can imagine

[00:31:54] And he's the villain in Star Trek Oh well remember Eric Bonner like And then funny people that same year It was like oh maybe he's a character And the time traveler's wife Right Yeah And then and you know now He's just kind of floating And he's not gone

[00:32:06] No He was in the finest hours And he's He's pretty good there And he's and Eric Bonner Not bad But although he has like a Texan accent Or something Yeah it's terrible Everyone's accents in that movie are real fun Well it is a weird art because

[00:32:23] He was an Australian comedy star Yeah he was in like the castle And he had like a sketch show Yeah he did like sketch TV and sitcoms You know he was really funny But he was this conventionally good looking guy And he usually was funny up ending that

[00:32:35] You know He kind of was doing like a twist On straight man stuff Sure And he does chopper Where he plays Wait Australia's most notorious serial killer Because Australia is Bronson He killed three people Right I remember my friend Sam Rogal passed guest on this show

[00:32:49] Always said like that shows you what Australia's like This is the worst criminal we had Three murders There we are And he's like a live wire in that movie He gained a bunch of weight Yeah looks great And he plays this very charismatic Very terrifying person

[00:33:05] It's weird that then everyone shifted to going Oh this is a conventional leading man Well but no you gotta remember Then he's in Black Hawk Down Which he's fantastic And which is more of like He's playing like a tough chiseled soldier He looks great He's really intense

[00:33:17] I love him in that movie But that comes off of chopper Yes No but I think but then I remember seeing Black Hawk Down And already knowing at that point He had been cast as the whole I know But like they see that And they're like right

[00:33:28] Yeah like this guy's hot This guy's handsome But yeah he's really good on Black Hawk Down He gets the final monologue And he kind of nails it That's great Who Yeah Hulk was supposed to be I was trying to get Todd with that one I got him

[00:33:40] Do you know who's supposed to be Hulk Billy Crudup Which is why if you look at Ang Lee's Hulk The Hulk looks like Billy Crudup Like a grumpy Billy Crudup Yeah it's got Billy Crudup's face I swear to you Sure Eric Bennett gets slotted in

[00:33:53] For the very last second Oh wow this is huge Yeah right I mean it's like Okay You know X-Men Made Hugh Jackman Right Spider-Man at the time It felt like Toad McGuire was Now made And then he didn't really do movies

[00:34:06] No and he's a weird little Weasley guy Right So you know he's never gonna be Anyway But it was like here's a new anointment Sure And then people hate that movie Hate that movie But Troy was already running Right And Troy makes money But nobody likes Troy

[00:34:19] And then there's this Yeah Right and this I remember This is supposed to rebrand him As like a series That was the thing I remember people being like This is gonna be a lady role Okay he tried to do two summer blockbusters And they didn't really work

[00:34:29] But now this is who Eric Bennett is He's an Oscar perennial Yeah And then you see him in this And he's really solid in this But it's not a very showy part No I mean his job is just to kind of Hold the movie

[00:34:39] Yeah I mean it's not an Oscar nomination type No This was a year where they had to go out of their way Not to nominate him Best actor And they did go out of their way And they did Yeah Not to nominate me

[00:34:50] Well then you guys tell me Toffman and Ledger Toffman and Ledger And BX Straithorn And Strathern Yes And then there's the fifth nominee And is it Hustle and Flow Yeah Strathern's having like They like Strathern And Terrence Howard They both were kind of On the outside looking in

[00:35:05] Yeah And then Yeah I'm very happy for Terrence Howard's nomination In that movie He's great in that movie He's terrific in that movie Yeah But you're absolutely right They also didn't nominate B. Gommortensen Got a lot of good actors that year Who you know Keanu Reeves and Constantine

[00:35:21] Like that's an Oscar That's a really good performance Mike Laniarano and Sky High I mean we're talking like These were the guys who were like Six, seven, eight You know Keep going baby Nicholas Cage and Lord of War Yeah Was Weatherman that year? Maybe It might have been

[00:35:40] It was either 05 or 06 I would have nominated Nick Cage And Weatherman, no question 05 He had that bow and arrow Yeah, I mean I would have put Christian Bale in Batman Begins For a Griffey He's I think that's the one Batman movie where he has A full performance

[00:35:54] Because I give him a real art It's a great performance He's amazing in that Anyway The movie's called Munich It does not feature Batman So Eric Bonnet plays Abner Kaufman Who is a made up character And yet they keep talking about His dad as like a war hero

[00:36:06] Yeah So I guess he's supposed to be Burdened by some kind of Like patriotic responsibility That he wants to live up to Can I just quickly point out That none of the three Major actors in this movie Are due to us Yeah

[00:36:17] I want to say Daniel Craig's due He's not I looked at that I know, but I just wanted I just want him Want him for our team This was one of two Angry Jews get vengeance Movies that Daniel Craig did It's true

[00:36:29] And yet he's a fair haired blue-eyed Blonde Brit Steely Brit Born in Chester, Britain Nothing reads Jewish about him I had to look it up Because I was like He's a French Huguenot ancestry He is not Jewish No No I'm not offended by it

[00:36:47] Like I'm not saying that To bring up a steak But it is a little bit like Ten years earlier He would play You would have this guy as like The racist in like Gandhi Or like, you know Some kind of African Like, you know

[00:37:01] Like he'd play like an Africana, you know President The bratty student in school ties Or something Like he looks like the What do you want to say? Bigoted antagonist If you believe The Holy Blood, Holy Grail theory The Huguenots are descended From Jesus and Mary Magdalene

[00:37:14] And Jesus was a Jew Jesus was a Jew Jesus was a Jew But I have a question for you Was Mary Magdalene? Because it's through the mother It's through the mother She was She was Alright, then we're cool Fair enough I think you're correct that she was

[00:37:26] The Jews at the time were not Happy with it Yeah, I just like that they picked Like three actors Like an Australian, a Brit And Jeffrey Rush is an Australian too Two Australians Yeah, Kieran Hins is Irish Right And they were just like

[00:37:38] I don't know, just get guys With weird noses No, I mean they They get these guys who I mean not Daniel Craig But Kieran Hins Erich Bonner Like They have sort of A like a Sephardic look Like slightly Like a little more of A Mediterranean look I guess

[00:37:54] If you have their hair dark I remember from the time that they Were talking about that Like these guys were not necessarily Like the character The real people that these fictional characters Are based on were like Not necessarily going to be Like the Daniel Craig character was

[00:38:09] Fair Hair So that was their out for it Yeah, look I mean I don't care But they're all fictional characters anyway So They are all fictional I guess they're like Composites Yeah, so they could have just done Whatever they want But Matthew Kastavitz

[00:38:23] I will point out he is Jewish He played a Jew in La Ain In his breakout role Which he directed as well I know he directed that He's not in No it's Kassel It's the Kassel And then he directed Gothic Yeah, then you've directed Gothic

[00:38:36] And won the Oscar He is unsurprisingly My favorite character in the film He's terrific So I'll say They assembled this team For Ovner And it's You've got a And it's assembled by Efraim Who is Jeffrey Rush Who is his sort of Haley Goodness Who is terrific

[00:38:53] Who is terrific What do you think of Jeffrey Rush, Todd? I'm a Jeffrey Rush fan Me too I like him here And let's go a little more background Eric Banna is kind of a straight arrow guy But tightly wound His wife is like three months away

[00:39:04] He's got a pregnant wife Who he likes to have sex with Right But also love of country You know He likes to have sex with the country too Yeah, he loves talking to that country Sideways while she's pregnant Absolutely So they assembled this team

[00:39:18] And it's a South African Driver I guess Daniel Craig's the wheels guy I guess He's just sort of your number two His name is Wills Hershkowitz In this movie, isn't it? His name I think is like Steve It's not like really like A Jewish warrior name Steve Blonde

[00:39:36] Steve of the Maccabees Guys, me and Griffin are joking You can do all this You've got a Matthew Cassavitz He's a toy maker And a bomb maker I guess as a result Although let's be I like his performance a lot This guy is a shitty bomb maker Terrible

[00:39:53] He makes like three bombs One of them works One of them is too powerful And one of them blows him up Like he's not like a great They maybe should have like combed Israel a little harder for him Okay, what I like about him

[00:40:04] Is the movie acknowledges that Right? I also think he's kind of in his own Inspirational Disney underdog movie Which is like the little bomb maker who could He just everything's against him But he just believes someday He's gonna make a great bomb This is also unquestionably

[00:40:18] Who I would play in this movie Right? Because I always play that game where it's like Okay, who would I play in this movie? I just chew that shit up so hard Little Frenchy Jew Toy maker That's me You kidding me? So who would I play?

[00:40:33] Who would you play? You'd play wheels or schools I'd be a cause I'm sort of a fair-haired Jew No, I think you'd be I think you'd maybe Kieran Hines Well, Kieran Hines, Carl Yeah He's I mean he looks like an accountant But I mean

[00:40:46] The idea is that he's a former Sort of tough guy, Mossad soldier Something like he's like He's someone who's got some blood on his hand He's a regular Gal Gadot type I don't know what that means Gal Gadot? Oh she was even Mossad Asian Which is pretty crazy

[00:41:00] Awesome I always like to point out that Wonder Woman has Almost definitely killed people Jesus That's probably Then there is Hans Played by Anitha Hans Zichler He's the sort of The Frenchy guy Yeah, the Danish antiquity guy He's great Who is that guy? No idea

[00:41:20] Who the fuck did they find? Yeah, everyone's great I would say everyone's great in this movie But like I mean, I'm looking out I mean he's a German actor He's in some German stuff I don't know what to tell you He's great

[00:41:31] I think he's terrific at his, you know This is the thing I like about this movie And the part that's like I think left over from Eric Roth's script Is the scene where they're like Here's what everybody's job is And then the movie just utterly

[00:41:41] Just forgets about that It doesn't care This is not a movie that is process oriented This is not a movie where I mean like we get through Osmosis and through some dialogue That like they're going to Matthew Almondereek's character What's his name? Louis

[00:41:56] And like he sells them information And they use this information to But like it never says like Who are these people they're trying to kill Who like, what do they do? Why are they, you know It's all vague Like you would think there would be a script

[00:42:08] Where it would be like You would maybe Be watching someone Then it would cut to a black and white photograph And then they'd be like looking at the table And they'd be like There's, you know Oh the jackal, you know He killed eight Israelis and a bomb

[00:42:20] Oh that's why we got it killed Captain Boomerang Deadly foe of the flat Like it feels like you could do the Suicide Squad Amanda Waller explanation For every character in this movie It's a two hour or 45 minute movie It's not like they didn't have time to do it

[00:42:33] But it shows you That's not what he's concerned with So was Eric Roth's script first? Yeah he wrote the original script And then Tony Kushner did Punch Up Which was apparently just like Basically a page one rewrite Right Which you can tell But like they kept Roth's structure

[00:42:49] So they had that It was a pretty cushy script Yeah I think we can all agree Yeah I mean And he never worked with Roth again Or before Really? Roth has got a weird career Because he wrote Forrest Gump So obviously that's his sort of like

[00:43:03] Eternal Calling card But he also wrote like The Postman And like the horse whisperer Like Eric Roth No I was going It sounded like who Who If you guys do Eric Roth miniseries I'm there for every episode You want to be in there

[00:43:18] You want to be in there for A movie he wrote called James House Oh no it was a TV movie Well I was reading But he also of course Wrote like The Insider And Ali He's like worked with Michael Manilot He wrote Benjamin Button

[00:43:28] Well I was reading an interview With Spielberg Because I've just been reading A lot of Spielberg recently While doing this podcast Cruise and Spielberg apparently came close To doing Benjamin Button years earlier That would have been weird Really weird That would have been a weird movie

[00:43:43] But in that period of time Where they had been dying To make a movie together That was a weird movie that is Weird movie I love that movie That's a great take I haven't heard that take in a while I like that movie a lot

[00:43:53] I think that movie is due for re-evaluation Yeah because I was thinking about the movie And I'm like I saw it And I remember that it's about A little old man who turns into A sexy young baby But I do not remember the movie that well

[00:44:03] I was just seeing hidden figures Like and I was like I remember when Taraji and Mahershala Ali They were married in Benjamin Button Like eight years ago Yeah And now they're flirting again They're flirting up a storm Todd's least favorite movie of twenty-six Really hidden figures It's fun

[00:44:20] I don't hate it But yeah I think you kinda hate it I'm not as gung-ho about it As David Who it's his favorite movie Twenty-six Absolutely You're banging the drum I find Benjamin Button really interesting Because I think People at the time wrote it off

[00:44:36] Because this is failing to be force-gum Yes Like they were like This is what it's aiming to do And it doesn't hit And I think it's a movie that is Not concerned with being emotional Yeah It's a very existential meditative movie I need to re-watch it

[00:44:50] It's David Fincher's Wes Anderson movie Right I feel like people at the time were like This is an Oscar movie from Fincher Like Fincher's usually all fucked up And like he just played it safe To get an Oscar nomination And I think that's

[00:45:02] He was just coming up so yeah A huge misread of David Fincher Because he would never be interested in that kind of shit Yeah He'd just come off as a zodiac I think Benjamin Button's a very cynical movie Yeah I mean it's about like

[00:45:13] How sort of inherently doomed this guy is To live alone Right And I also think it's Like pointedly bottled In all of its emotions I mean he holds away from all the big scenes And I also just think like He's so unconcerned For a guy who's so meticulous

[00:45:29] About thinking through the reality Of what happened to recreating things He's so unconcerned with the logic Of the situation That doesn't really make any sense That he's using it in kind of like You know an abstract expressionistic way To get at these ideas

[00:45:41] Of just like a man out of place And out of time But was it a better expression Of that concept than the fourth season Of Mork and Mindy Where their child was played By Jonathan Winters as Murk I mean I think they're about equal I do

[00:45:53] I think they're very similar This is why you get Vandiver This is why you get VDW They're bosom buddies Those two things It's also I think That movie is interesting Because of how little narrative Effectively character has Like he just kind of wanders through shit

[00:46:07] And rather than force gump it's like But he was at the right place At the right time It's like no this guy just kind of Wander through life And he never really fit in anywhere But guys We're talking about Mianna So he assembles this team

[00:46:19] I mean like you said And I know we say this on the podcast All the time The plot is there's no plot It's Vignetti It's very very Vignetti It's a series of yeah It's a series of quote unquote Missions but they're not connected It's almost nightmarish this movie

[00:46:34] In terms of how it kind of like Just barfs out some new scenario That's you know always like Morally very muddy and confused And like completely isolated from information Like we don't know who's this nice He goes to the nice Italian like

[00:46:49] Shop and he likes the clerk lady And you know he's buying some sausages Like we gotta murder this He looks like a fucking playwright He doesn't look like so dare you know He's in like a tweed suit you know Go on No that's what I was gonna say

[00:47:03] You were talking about the lack of Sort of exposition explaining who these people are What they have to do and that we're just sort of seeing Structurally this movie is actually Kind of similar to like something like elephant Yeah Where it's like this repetitive like

[00:47:15] We're gonna see you know Them understanding what they have to do Them doing it and then sort of processing it afterwards And it's that sort of in a series But in this kind of I mean almost abstract way Because you're not giving out much context

[00:47:29] And I think what's interesting about that is You're kind of knowing as much as They would know In a way I mean sure they had Probably briefing a little more information But it also is like you're forced to look At these people they're about to kill

[00:47:43] The same way they would in a situation Where there's that galt of like Are they they seem like a nice guy This is just a dude in a nice jacket Like why would I have to kill this guy Right well that first scene of the first assassination

[00:47:55] Is it the Arabian night sky or is that Yeah yeah yeah With Kassimitz and Banna are pointing the guns at him And they like don't even want to fire Even though they're like no it's him Right And that thing where he's like sort of like

[00:48:06] No no no and he's like trying to push Kassimitz's gun down He makes all the violence feel very real Like the bullets like the gunshots are very loud And kind of jarring and not It's like not poppy you know Not Hollywood but also it is Kind of exciting

[00:48:21] One of my favorite shots in the movie is At the hotel And it's Banna standing there and then There's his target and the next one over And then there's a couple that's just fucking all the time They're so good The canoodling the classic canoodling couple

[00:48:34] You think Steven Spielberg at this time was just like Really like man everyone's getting laid Like he was just really like worked up He just got into sex for the first time So it's kind of shot in It's shot in wide and deep focus

[00:48:46] So you have all these like different little stories Playing out in the same shot Right And then Banna talking to this guy and it's like You know you're still early in the movies You're still like yeah these guys are going to get these terrorists

[00:48:57] But like it's every shot Even underlines that these are like human beings Right That maybe they were responsible for this Poorable atrocity but like they still Probably don't deserve to be blown up in a hotel room With no trial or no You know a presentation of evidence

[00:49:13] Or anything like that Well if you had scenes with Jeffrey Rush Giving him the dossier and explaining who everyone is And what they did Is they were like You know there's a lot of people in the audience Because that scene would then have to quickly

[00:49:25] Because it's a movie and there's a finite amount of time You're like great I get it I get it this guy is bad I know how to view it I'm not going to have any sympathy for him But in real life if you were handed a dossier

[00:49:35] Like that and then you had a little time to think over it And then you see someone in real life Part of your job is like making sure they're them So you kind of talk to them for a minute And you're like you know what's up Right

[00:49:46] Unless you're an associate path If you're taking us of those sort of explanations The movie forces you to be in the same position That someone like Eric Vanna would Which is like looking at the gestures these characters are making How they're interacting with other people

[00:49:58] The little glimpses we get of their lives And being like this doesn't seem like Someone who needs to be assassinated Yeah Which makes it all upsetting and kind of terrifying Well then also that assassination right is the bed bomb Right

[00:50:10] So that's the one that almost blows up the sexy couple And they make sure that the sexy couple is okay And they're all obviously completely traumatized She can't see He also he shoots I feel like every He shoots end cuts

[00:50:22] Every sequence of this movie with the same amount of tension So you feel as nervous in the scenes where Someone does actually end up doing something As the scenes where nothing happens Like he's using the language of thrillers And of tension to like

[00:50:37] When you're watching him have the conversation With the guy and the couple there You don't know if anything's going to happen in that scene Because He's been ratcheting it so much consistently That you're like this might be a misdirect When also there's this

[00:50:50] Like they suddenly the couple they're So fucking in love with each other They like bang into a shutter or something And it makes a noise and it like startles him Right You're, it's such an edgy I remember I saw this

[00:51:01] The book is already doing fake outs on you Right I saw this in the theater And I just remember being this like very jangly edgy movie That's like you know the explosions are all very visceral And like not fun explosions I don't know that there's a director working

[00:51:13] Who's better at making you feel exactly What he wants you to feel than Steven Spielberg And this movie is just like Constant paranoia Right and that's why I guess why he gets hit with manipulative Yeah But like that's manipulative means that you can

[00:51:26] Like see the strings really easily And you feel manipulated right like you know Like you're just like oh you're just trying To get a rise out of me and Spielberg's He's effective This is no monster calls Boom roast it Yeah

[00:51:38] Is this movie about Steven Spielberg losing his virginity The more I think about it It feels like someone who just had sex for the first time And can't stop sharing details about like As if they've already had sex Like you know my favorite part of sex is

[00:51:51] You know when you're sexing somebody You're just so excited to join the table And also You'll have those sex and conversations Well also when he had sex with someone He had a feverish image of the 1972 Munich massacre of the Israeli athletes Right He was like I guess that's

[00:52:06] I don't know He called up Kushner and he was like Wait a movie about this weird sex tree my head And he's like that's a real thing that happened So but we should as part As this is unfolding once in a while

[00:52:18] As Bonn is character sleeping and guessing This is a bit of a Hollywood storytelling device But he has these visions of The hostage situation Of 1972 Which are also very grim And very And similarly There's a similarly amateurish quality Like sort of on both ends

[00:52:35] Which I like that mirroring Like Bonn is team You know there are a bunch They seem like a bunch of middle managers Who've been like giving guns and elusive names And like go kill people And like the hostage You know the back September The terrorists they seem like

[00:52:48] They don't know what they're doing Right you know like half the time They like just sort of like fire their guns wildly Because they just know Like they're in trouble Or right or like you know something has to happen I don't know like it's all very chaotic

[00:52:59] And they're really scary scenes The hostage Can we talk about the safe house Section In the middle of the movie This is Todd's favorite No you refuse Because it's too perfect You don't want to We can talk about it With Papa you mean

[00:53:13] No with the when they are at the safe house That Louis has sent them to And the Palestinians are also there And they listen to Al Green's Let's Stay Together They do no right That's a great scene The only song that can hear That can affect world peace

[00:53:25] Yeah right If only like we could have that At the table right now Just Al Green You see he's dead No he's not Al Green's still alive Is everyone I think he's still alive That conversation he has Still gone Yeah smoking Yeah With the Palestinian guy

[00:53:42] Is so fucking good It is Because it's just like Oh this is like an infinite feedback loop This is something that can't be untangled And that's something the movie Is reinforcing throughout Which is like Again Bona doesn't know What's happening to the In the outside world that much

[00:53:56] But we're hearing like Look you know you kill these terrorists More terrorists just sort of Pop up even more radical terrorists Often you know Because you're murdering people And you're you know You're making this a war And like so yeah The next soldiers are even scarier

[00:54:08] Than the last one So very early in the film A lot of the time when there's Foreign language And it's not important to the plot It's not subtype But very early in the film They go to this lecture From a woman Who's talking about In German I believe

[00:54:22] She's like babbling Yeah she's talking about How you need to get beyond Concepts of good and evil And like see the systems That are oppressing you And all this stuff It's very Tony Kushner It's like he just randomly Dropped in somebody from angels

[00:54:32] In the middle of this script And I love the fact that she's saying that And I think it's Eric Bona And Matthew Elmeriecker Meeting in that scene right And they're like And he's like What the fuck is she saying He's like I don't know

[00:54:42] I never know what she's talking about Like she's like dispensing This sort of almost accidental Profundity and Anyway here's $60,000 Yeah and that like becomes The like load stone for the movie Like the North Star Like everything in the movie Points toward You need to get beyond seeing

[00:54:53] Good and evil Right And understand that like There's it's not even like Shades of the world But it's like Like you're like You're like And that like there's It's not even like shades of gray It's like they don't exist Like you've invented a dialectic That is pointless Right

[00:55:07] And if you can't get beyond that You can't like see Anything clearly And that's sort of What that safe house scene Says to me is like They all want home But like home is this Weird concept to begin with Well those are like The two sort of

[00:55:20] Biggest themes I feel Like he keeps on hitting on In like a traditional Spielberg Way you know As like okay Here's a clear thesis That's running through the movie This concept of what home Is that what drives everyone Is just being able to have

[00:55:31] A home and be safe in your home Which is like one of the three Most primal human instincts That we cannot kick out of our system No matter how much we develop As a society Everyone just wants to have a home Feel like they own it

[00:55:42] Feel like they're protected there And that's you know Like maybe the most Spielberg Moment in the movie Is when you have Eric Banner Looking at the model kitchen In the window Yeah And seeing the reflections Of passivits there Which then turns into Matthew Almerik

[00:55:57] And it's like this whole thing of like Okay what is he actually fighting for Like what is a home actually You know This feels like it's a representation Of the kind of kitchen I'd want to live in But what prices I come at Literally

[00:56:09] I mean this is the one scene where I think he lays it on a little thick Right I like it when Stevie lays it on thick I'm not complaining But it is He goes blunt here Cause Almerik goes like It's nice kitchen but it will cost you

[00:56:18] You know like that kind of thing That's true yeah They literally All the subtext becomes taxed Yeah But home is like The main thing Driving all these people Which is very relatable Right and we should say In the safe house scene They're all pretending to be like

[00:56:30] He's like I'm at a Like he's pretending to be part of The Basque Liberation Movement Or maybe the like The barter maid hop Like all of these sort of liberation Movements of the era That we're about Like finding a home for ex-people Right and then I think that's

[00:56:41] The second big theme of the movie Is like identity and allegiance Like who are you part of Not who are you as a person But who are you in relation To what you are united with Because you're not a person Of what you are united with

[00:56:54] Because you have people hiding Behind layers and layers And layers of deception But it's constantly coming under A question like who are you working For I told you I'm working for that No I know you're working for this But you think you're working for

[00:57:04] That you're actually working for this You know everyone has like bought into To some degree or another Some kind of community Or some kind of you know Legacy Or some nationalism Some pride whatever it is That they feel like they need to Represent that or defend that

[00:57:22] Or attack the other But no one really knows where they stand Omar Mettwally In that sense it's really good In that sense it's interesting That the movie ends in Brooklyn Right so yeah he's robbed of his Home of the movie Brooklyn Very sure

[00:57:36] Oh that's where I recognize it from I was spending the whole time I was like I know I've seen That was the first I mean this was the first And Brooklyn was the second But it's not only that he is An immigrant now to another country

[00:57:45] And it's not only that The United States has always sort of Self conceptualized it as self As a home for people from everywhere And New York especially And New York especially And but it's also like The United States is a country where Often your identity as an American

[00:58:00] Is secondary to your identity as something else Like you are an American But you're all your Jewish American You carry your baggage as an American Right and that comes first before American That's the first word in the hyphen You know Yeah that is really interesting I just think

[00:58:15] Manola had a line I want to find But we can get back to it Keep talking Yeah it's just I mean I love that papasine Yeah let's talk about it Michael Lonsdale Yeah That's Michael Lonsdale Is he the father of Amarik? Or is he just Yeah he's

[00:58:31] I mean it's entirely possible They're making it up But yeah he claims to be They're at least involved together Yeah they're involved You know and these are people And there's another fascinating Sort of shade of gray right Is like They sell secrets from everyone To everyone

[00:58:46] There's no partisan thinking There's no like allegiance Or patriotism at work Like they're simply like Trafficers of information Well much like Dominic Toretto His priority is protecting his family Right and you're saying Papa's priority Papa's priority is If they added Papa To the Fast and the Furious series

[00:59:04] They could They could tomorrow Lonsdale Yeah He's still alive he's 85 Oh he'd be perfect He'd be perfect He'd be great What if it Literally he plays Papa And like it's Dom needs some info And he goes to Papa And Papa's like Hands in the corona Yeah Papa's like

[00:59:20] Carving the fat off of like A rabbit or whatever You know he's like He's making some un-pasturized cheese And he's like No Dom You know that'd be great And we realize That these are in a shared universe But that is I mean Papa doesn't feel an Allegiance to

[00:59:34] Country To religion You know To race Papa's allegiance is To family And every time we see him He's at this massive estate They keep on talking about How much money he's made And the point of that money was To be able to Support all of these people

[00:59:48] To create this sort of commune Almost you know It feels like he lives in this bubble Where it's just great food And all of his family Right And the way that we don't know For sure if Al-Marik is actually some Because we don't know At all

[01:00:00] If anything they're saying is true Yeah The family's so big We don't know how much of it Is blood and how much of it's Chosen Yeah You know but it is The sense of like He chose his people This is who he's protecting

[01:00:11] This is what he stands for And everyone else in the movie Is kind of constantly questioning Yeah You know where they fit into it And he's the one guy Who's got his feet totally planted He's also the most Even-keeled calm person In a very jittery movie Yeah

[01:00:25] Michael Anstiel Yes And we were Everyone's always on edge He's the one guy who is just like I know what I've done And I've made my deal I've made my bet And make sure to get this fat Off of that rabbit You gotta get the fat

[01:00:37] Off of that rabbit So when he comes back in Toward the end And it's vaguely threatening To get the movie completely Off the rest Yeah and like I sort of In a good way I took that scene as him Giving him kind of a friendly Warning like look

[01:00:48] Matthew Amarica's sort of Sold you guys out So you know watch your back Yeah So I'm sending you some Unbasterized cheese Which I would love it If that guy called me right Now was just like I'm sending you some cheese He does make cheese sound great

[01:01:00] He makes it sound true Hugo Drax He's Hugo Drax In Moonraker Oh right He's the villain of Moonraker Michael Anstiel Um Just one Said I want that on the record Thank you Dave Where's Ben Prusa Ben We haven't even introduced Ben in this whole episode We've been so

[01:01:17] So having so much fun talking Munich The Benduser Ben are you here Yeah I'm here Pradoorba The Poet Laureate Our finest film critic Yeah The Peeper I've been known to Look Just do the names The Fluckmaster Part Detective Part Detective Dirtbike Benny You're not Professor Crisp No No

[01:01:38] Okay But you have graduated with Dissert and Tells of the Course Of Different Masters Yeah Okay can I just run a couple By you and you tell me If they're correct or not I will confirm if they're Correct yes Prusa Ben True Kylo Ben True Ben Aichan True

[01:01:54] Ben Sate Oh yeah true Say Ben anything Dot dot dot Ily Ben's with a dollar Sign at the end Just call him Ily Ben's Yeah Yeah those are his names Okay Great Also The Goyas Goy Yeah how'd you feel about this Big ol' Jufest It's great

[01:02:11] I really can't Add very much Cool action movie The context with the whole Palestine-Israel thing Makes me uncomfortable Being on the record talking About it so I'm not gonna say much You wanna take yourself off The record I'll throw this out In espionage movies It seems like

[01:02:34] It's like a trope to have a kid Almost get killed Sure that's true That's a good scene though I don't like it Love watching Kieran Hine's Book it He has to run around that corner He's gotta put a hand on top Of that fedora so it doesn't

[01:02:46] Fly away I'd prefer next time A cat Or a dog Like a cat's under threat So the cat answers the phone Yeah exactly That's what I'm saying Then I would really be upset Great great work That's a good scene

[01:03:04] You want me to get the cat out of the room? Yeah please Alright hold on Thanks Ben It's what we needed in the middle It is interesting The big episode was a good old fashioned bit Fully bit Ben You know immediately jumping to Cool action movie

[01:03:18] Does bring up I think we should acknowledge this This movie's lasting legacy Is kind of The scene knocked up I feel like that's Most of this movie's cultural legacy now Okay Ben Just grab by the scruff Grab by the scruff Alright He's really committed

[01:03:34] Yeah the scene knocked up Which comes out two years later Yes In which they are at the club And I guess they've all just watched Munich Or maybe they just Want to talk about Munich They're just talking about Munich

[01:03:44] He says like you know what I saw the other day And it was a fucking cool movie Munich and all of them go like Oh yeah Munich It's like J. Baruchel And Jason Siegel Right and they're like That movie flips the script The Jews are the one

[01:03:54] You know and then he has Like the line like If any of us get laid tonight Because of airtime And then he's like What's the line like If any of us get laid tonight It's because of Eric Bonna and Munich Which is a great line

[01:04:03] What do you think of this line It's a good line It's a good line I'm a little dismayed that I love this movie That's over That's dismayed that this is now That this is its legacy And the weird sex scene And occasionally Somebody who remembers

[01:04:16] That it's somehow anti-Israel Right And You should know That Steven Spielberg sent Joe Deppatao framed still From the film Munich Signed Because when he saw Yeah Well it does feel like The joke of that sequence And I think why It hit so well Is that the idea

[01:04:34] Of anyone watching Munich And being like Hardcore Jews Right is really funny Because that's not What that movie is It's not a Jewish revenge fantasy Well no exactly I mean it's sort of a Yeah it's a complete It's underlining Of a Jewish revenge fantasy It's to underline their

[01:04:49] Man-child status et cetera But so few people Had seen Munich No no it's funny Like now it's been cemented I think people think it is What they think it is In that movie The joke at the time was Like Munich's very austere If they think this movie

[01:05:01] Is badass And that's leading to them Getting laid Then they've misread Munich Because I would say The most quote unquote Bad ass scene is when they So Kieran Hines Hines I don't know how you say it I say Hines We've mentioned him so many times On this podcast

[01:05:15] I know Mans Raider Mans Raider himself There we go He gets caught And assassinated by This one shot character Marie Jose Cruz Who is she? She's in a dime bell In the butterfly She's like the main nerf She's a very Very fine French actress

[01:05:32] Alright she was in the Barbarian invasion She's Canadian I'm a huge fan of hers Really? Oh she's French Canadian? Yeah I'm a huge fan of hers I think she's really good at it So she kills Poor Kieran You know He gets a nice little Goodbye scene actually

[01:05:45] At the bar with Eric And so then they Exact their revenge With those weird little Like flashlight guns That like So interesting The And she's a creepy scene But that's the most badass scene Right Like that's in another movie That's when they're taking their Like Their brutal revenge

[01:06:03] But think about how upsetting That scene is because They walk in She's there Who are you What's going on She sees Banna She puts it together Right They take out the things They start assembling them She goes well at least Let me get dressed You know

[01:06:17] Reach is reaching for the gun You go okay I know where this is going It's gonna be a shootout thing That's the attempt that's like Well You know tries to seduce them To see if she can throw them off It'd be a waste to let these

[01:06:26] Talents you know And then they shoot the things And it It's like some weird It's almost like The These cattle stun gun From no country for old men Like it immediately Leaves this mark Right But it doesn't really start bleeding And letting out for a little while

[01:06:40] She starts breathing And he starts holding You know Like you see her with these Two large red dots She's like stumbling around And they're trying to Kind of like just get her to sit back down His half-robed Cat She hugs her cat And they're just like Sit down

[01:06:54] Sit down And you just have to sit with her You know watching her Stumble around Really uncomfortably Knowing that she's about to die Before it starts getting gruesome And it's like This isn't a movie that gets Any satisfaction of like You know It'd be so easy to

[01:07:07] Especially when it's like You know A honeypot character Like that You know Sure Where it's like Oh her job is to seduce And kill It'd be so easy to just Be like Yeah you fucking get what you deserve To be like In a video version of Munich

[01:07:21] That the knocked up guys Think they're watching That's the kind of scene Because I mean She's not a character with any Dimensionality Or like I mean She's just in a set We only know her As someone who kills One of the Like it's not like It's not like

[01:07:35] There should be sympathy for her And yet Right To hold on her death That much is just Like death is never cool Yeah You know It doesn't matter If someone's done something Wrong if they're On the opposite side Yeah to watch someone in their final moments, except death.

[01:07:52] And she's like puttering around like a baby. I mean, she's like losing her facilities and it's just like, grab in a cat. Let me sit in the chair. I like, you know, yeah, it sucks.

[01:08:01] Death blows. I want to go on the record and say that I think death is fucking lame. Yeah, Todd, I think if Eric Banna comes and shoots me, I'm going to hug my cat. I think that's a good way to go when Eric Banna comes for us

[01:08:14] and he comes for us all sooner or later. He comes for us all. He does. You got to grab your cat and give it a nice little hug. My cat. My cat's name is Pig. Is that true?

[01:08:28] Yeah, and we'll be selling Pig Plush in the Blank Check online store. Oh, I have actually a pitch for you guys. Oh, sure. Why don't we just make like customized blankets? Yeah, that's what we should do. We should make like stadium blankets with our faces on them.

[01:08:41] Yeah, for the blankies. Yeah, that's what we should do. Blankies. This store is going to be open any day now. Blanky blankies. We're working on it. Other thoughts about this movie? I mean, should we talk about the sex scene? We should. I don't know.

[01:08:52] Yeah, well, that's the thing. So they do all this stuff. They kill lots of people. Eventually, Bonnig, does he retire or do they retire him? He's just, he's out. They can't pull him back in. They have one right. They have one mission that goes kind of wrong

[01:09:03] where they're trying to kill this big shot and instead they kill this like teenager and sort of a disaster. Oh, hey. Then he's out. He's in Brooklyn and what is it about? Griffin, you were on a show where you had to be like set in the 70s.

[01:09:18] A vinyl? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And this is also mostly set in the 70s. Mm-hmm. What did you think of the fashion in those days? I dig it. I do too. And I actually, I thought that during the movie

[01:09:31] but I thought it wouldn't be cool to bring up on this podcast. Well, I brought it up for you. Everyone looks really cool in this movie. Hell yeah. It's a really well executed 70s costume world because they don't feel costuming. Everyone feels like it's like real outfits

[01:09:46] and they do the thing that the best period films do which is like the clothes are mostly from like six years earlier than the movie was set because fashion like lasts, you know? People are wearing older clothes. I think everyone looks cool in this movie.

[01:09:58] I think 70 stuff is cool. I think it's a good fucking zone to set stories in. I like all the facial hair. I love chops. Yeah. Stashes. But I like like Kieran Hines is sort of still like in a 60s mode.

[01:10:11] You know, he looks like he's like from the Anderson tapes or something. It's like this is an older guy and he's holding on to his his prime. James Bond's haircut is pretty pretty rough. How's he talking about? Oh, you mean Craig? You mean Daniel Craig?

[01:10:24] Yeah, you know, this is it. This is the year before Casino Royale. Yes. Or again, no, it's also six. Yeah. Right. So this is he's just about to pop. Yeah, he's just about to become a huge star. But right now he's still like steely British theater actor.

[01:10:38] Daniel Craig and very much like a supporting player. Right. Like eight lead in Road to British and Daniel Craig. Yeah, it's really good. And that's perfect. Yeah. It's a mushroom cut though. All right. That's enough.

[01:10:50] There's a moment in this film when he when he gets back and he meets the Israeli soldiers who are like escorting him and they're like in awe of him. They're talking to him as if they're the knocked up guys. And they're like, we know who you are.

[01:11:01] You're not allowed to say it, but you're fucking cool. Right. And they put out their hand to shake his hand and he like really hesitantly does it slowly. Yeah. And it's so clear this movie is framing it as like this guy isn't some Oorah hero.

[01:11:13] You know, he's not like the underdog defender. This is a guy who's got to live with this for the rest of his life. I just want to I just remembered that Karen Hins is who Daniel Craig shoots and wrote to perdition that's like sets

[01:11:24] off everything off in the movie. Oh, that's crazy. And then Superman sees it. Yeah, little Superman. Tyler. He's a little Superman. Yeah. And also a Matthew Ulmarique is the guy who James Bond punches in Quantum of Solace. True. That is true.

[01:11:44] And Michael Lonsdale played the city of Chicago. Right. Yes, yes, yes. The entire city. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And Matthew Kasimitz was the rain. Yeah. What a great movie. It's a yes. Todd way in. I like what I would not say it's I would not say great

[01:12:00] but I like I like it a lot. My favorite Mendes probably mine too. What's what's it? Well, I like skyfall. I fall. Yeah, I like skyfall. Say for that one scene. Which one scene when he just goes into a no yeah when he just sexual abuse survivor shower.

[01:12:16] Let me get the shower with you. Yeah, we've just talked about how you were like a weird scene. That is a jump in your show objectively odd. So I'm shocked. Daniel Craig has talked about that scene like ever since he made it.

[01:12:29] Yeah, like an example of like why do I play this guy? Yeah, this guy's this guy's gross. Yeah. Oh, but I mean the sex scene this movie is interesting now just because it's it's so over the top because

[01:12:42] he's done so few sex scenes in his career, but it's also like a day new month of the film. Yeah, so yeah right we're on the sex scene. Yeah and when no no it's and also because it's cross cutting with the massacre of these poor Israeli athletes.

[01:12:55] It's an odd choice. It is a it's almost a bold choice I would say right than a misfire there were intentional. There were many defenses of this movie at the time but of course you know it's when there's a obviously

[01:13:09] weird scene in a movie like you think about Spider-Man 3 which has a lot of problems but all anybody remembers this scene where he dances right right like all anybody remembers about this movie is this one like really tonally

[01:13:20] strange kind of off the wall choice which I really I actually really liked this time around. I remember the first time I saw it. I was like I liked it more than I thought in my head. So I feel like you could cut one shot out and then

[01:13:31] maybe fine and the shot is him orgasming and like just like beads of sweat flying into the air and now in my head that was like literally like so much water suddenly with and it's not gets in the flash dance.

[01:13:44] So I do feel like maybe I don't know just do some pickups right in my head it was five minutes long yes me too all the time yeah it's not that bad but you know I'll admit that I get that it was jarring for people and I do

[01:13:59] think the cross I mean the idea of course is that he's 100% traumatized yeah right by the violence and like the the violence is all sort of becoming it's all blended together for him as well. And the fact that the movie is kind of book ended by these

[01:14:11] sex sequences the one in the beginning of the film is not very erotic is very just kind of like this is just a married couple having sex. It's right. She's pantsless he's nothing right clothes right there's like a blanket over them yet nothing clothed

[01:14:24] yeah but it's it's very just like you know he doesn't do any flashy camera work or anything it's just watching two people make love who are in love with each other right this is moving and then the end of the movie it's like

[01:14:36] he's having this very visceral like or thrusting sex you know shot in this very very cinematic way cross cut with like the horrors that he's never going to be able to live down like this is defining him for the rest of his life now.

[01:14:48] Well it's because you know you start he thinks you can be safe and you can have a home and he knows you can never be safe right right right he's sort of in that way he's like yeah he'll always be looking over his

[01:14:59] shoulder and also I think he's got this extra charge now that's not going away but I also think there's an intention in Spielberg showing the murder of the Israeli hostages which was so random like you just see it's like when Black September terrorists realize that

[01:15:11] it's all going down they just sort of fire wildly at the guys and it's not that different from what you've seen on in his crew do. Yeah which is kind of just fire wildly at people when they think they got you know like yeah.

[01:15:23] And then and then there's the factual final scene is his conversation with Jeffrey with a frame. Yeah on the docks of Brooklyn. He's really good in this which which has that very intentional shot of the World Trade Center. Yeah final shot has the world in the skyline.

[01:15:38] Yeah I do love that's a thing I love about this where your frame is like come back to Israel will kill more people talk about why did we do this did it work and he's like yeah so always more people to kill them.

[01:15:52] Flip a coin but I mean it's I mean I'm making it sound silly it is it's it's a scene where both characters have staked out there sort of sort of philosophical territory and the movie ends in a note where it's

[01:16:02] like these two guys are going to walk in two different directions and shit's going to keep happening like there's no you know was it a success like in the immediate they accomplished the thing they were trying to do but like it you know nothing's

[01:16:15] resolved really in the grand scheme of things. I do I love how and this is like because it's like a $60 million Spielberg movie and he could do it every once in terms of like the period setting was about 70 Wow in terms of the period setting

[01:16:31] and how many different locations this film has the world of this movie is so huge because he does a lot of wide shots he does a lot of long tracking shots where you're going across city blocks and the degree to which they had

[01:16:44] to set dress like every car every outfit all the signage and everything he makes the world feel very just sort of lived in an off hand. That's the thing in this way that kind of reminds me of the conversation is a lot of times he uses

[01:16:56] more sort of like documentary film techniques. He does a lot of zooms in this which Spielberg doesn't usually do usually moves the camera yeah not shifts the lens right now and he does a lot of like quick zooms into people from

[01:17:09] a distance this sort of paranoid kind of birds eye view or like a you know birds nest view of characters talking it's like an uneasy movie. I think it's great. I think it's really good. I don't think it's great but I really really like

[01:17:24] you don't think it's great. I think it's great. This would be my top 10 of the year for sure. It's top five Spielberg for me. I do think there's something though to what you were saying about like the Spider-Man 3 comparison where when audiences have a very

[01:17:36] specific idea of what they want out of a movie yeah and it doesn't work for them. They always latch on to like the thumb sticking out the furthest you know sure where it's like I think the weird scene Spider-Man 3 that the dance shit all those weird scenes

[01:17:50] aren't the promise by my three it's the rest of it. Yeah that stuff's kind of interesting. There's taking bold swings there. Interesting is too strong. You guys like that movie more than I do. I think the basic functional Spider-Man stuff in Spider-Man 3 is totally dysfunctional is where

[01:18:03] that movie it's kind of all over the place and I think similarly like most of Munich is so kind of locked down and focused that people who I think we're looking for the film to give them any sort of emotional catharsis or this sort of

[01:18:15] rush of an action thriller or the kind of neat answers that they wanted out of like a movie on a hot button issue were able to especially because it's the end go well that scene was weird that's the fucking problem and pin way too much

[01:18:29] on the sex scene because it's it's the loudest thing in the movie. I think of his 2000s work though this sort of grown the most reputation over time. Yeah I think that a big part of why this movie kind of rubbed people the wrong way was when

[01:18:42] it came out like yeah 2005 certainly we were starting to explore the moral questions of what the United States did after September 11th but we weren't like all the way there yet right and a lot of the reviews I went back

[01:18:53] and looked at them a lot of the commentary was saying is this movie saying taking action against terrorists makes you a terrorist because that's wrong. Yeah they're yeah right. That's not what this movie saying at all but like that's an easy superficial reading it's

[01:19:06] it's kind of similar to what happened to Zero Dark 30 in a lot of ways. Yes yes very very similar another good movie and some of the it's also very long yes some of the same sort of like themes that come up in Minority Report

[01:19:19] where it's like look it's like two two wrong answers really. Yeah you have to choose which wrong you want to go with right you know either you invade people's privacies in order to stop crime or you give people freedom and you let more crime happen.

[01:19:34] This movie is ranked 29th in the box office mojo category of travel on Middle East you know what number one is Transformers Revenge of the Fallen. Yeah a great Middle Eastern travel log. It's like another sweep of that kind of number two is the passion of the Christ.

[01:19:52] What the fuck. Oh I knocked over a little bit of tea. Thank you great job. I love obscure box office mojo every movie is American Sniper Aladdin. Why would you call this travel anyway that is my way of setting up the box office. Yes OK great.

[01:20:13] Yay so this opens in Christmas it was Christmas weekend 23rd of December 2005 it opened at number 10 at the box office with six million dollars so it's not in our top five it opened 530 screens so like sort of semi limited right it expanded out but you know it ended

[01:20:31] with 47 domestic it didn't really 30 World War anymore I feel like it's first wide weekend it did the same amount right. Let's see yeah yeah pretty much yeah I never it's biggest weekend is seven million dollars yeah OK so this is Christmas 2005 Christmas 2005 number one it's in its

[01:20:52] second week of release OK Todd loved this movie at the time I remember I did I rewatched it last year and you know that still really still really like it I would love to say I love it anymore.

[01:21:03] I think I might side with you on this I haven't rewatched in a while but I certainly so everyone knows that the movie is paying the drum highly for King Kong right King Kong which I don't like OK I was fully in the

[01:21:12] masterpiece boat at the time it's release. It's overstuffed but the stuff that works is so good I think is incredible I also would have given Naomi Watts best actress she's I think she's terrific I think that's an incredible one day we'll do our Peter Jackson any

[01:21:25] series and we'll then I'll rewatch King Kong I can't wait but that that holiday season was an arms race King Kong was expected to be the movie of the year not plenty of money but to 18 but another film sort of

[01:21:39] laughed it I mean came on strong and I think the weekend after this weekend returned to number one after seating to King Kong for a couple weeks and that is you are correct the Chronicles of Narnia the Lion the witch in

[01:21:52] the wardrobe right which ended up being the bigger sort of fantasy family event film everyone director of Shrek made a Narnia movie with Tilda Swinton that was a huge hit during the director of Shrek had the most consistent box office track record of anyone in

[01:22:06] history because Shrek Shrek to Narnia is one and two right and then Mr. Pip yep okay so they're heard of this movie so that's one and two and you also did it made $1,700 at the box office. He also did a Cirque du Soleil documentary I did he did

[01:22:23] okay so that's King Kong and Chronicles of Narnia one and two right that's one and two correct okay number three. Number three is a comedy that actually open pretty good it opened $29 million this is its first weekend considering

[01:22:40] that no one has ever seen it I know and it doesn't exist phone with Dick and Jane that's correct you guys both are you can talk to the box my wife worked in a movie theater at this time so I remember every because I was there

[01:22:53] visiting her all the time and seeing free movies so I remember like everything that's that's one of the quiet best hundred million grocers ever yeah the movie made $110 million 202 worldwide it was co-written by Joe Apatow and Nick Stoller yeah and Dean Perron saw directed it

[01:23:07] yet started Jim Carrey you know it was ostensibly also it was 2005 and it's kind of a movie about like financial yeah white collar crime it was like weirdly prescient too bad no one's ever seen it and I haven't seen it and it

[01:23:21] doesn't exist I saw it I saw in theaters it doesn't really exist yeah yeah because isn't a button joke on that one the final joke is that he's finally got a new job and he'll be fine and the job is at Enron yes it turns out to

[01:23:32] be a period piece that's the big twist okay go fuck just just remember me yeah it's just like remember it's very very it turns out that an early ought crisis is is the twist ending of the movie now yes number four is a

[01:23:46] secret like a ghost of the best much like this the best number I had to make that joke I'm sorry of course number four is a sequel okay to a family film by the dozen two there you go open to twenty million dollars for cheaper

[01:24:03] by the dozen to yeah is Tom Welling in that one as well yeah Hillary Duff yeah so yeah Piper Paribas Piper they're all back they're all back the whole family's back plus a new family Eugene Levy and Carmen Electra that couple

[01:24:17] that couple there's some episode back in the archives where we rent on like a twenty minute Eugene Levy right I can't remember what Jim's dad we talked about Jim's dad about Eugene Levy mid two thousands dominance of the sex company genre achieved by those in two features Taylor

[01:24:33] Lautner playing the child of Carmen Electra and Eugene Levy the biological child of Carmen Electra and Eugene Levy oh god so live without America yeah and the number five is a film that just added it was limited last week just added fifteen hundred screens and made ten million

[01:24:55] dollars was an Oscar player an Oscar player that won some Oscars but no but did not was not good and did not get good reviews. No right that fits the discussion pretty well you're on it was that your people like oh no this all

[01:25:10] this will be a player seriana watch out for also an ebert favorite serial that is a movie that I saw I don't remember it at all but I saw that Thanksgiving night two thousand five with my wife we drove to LA to see seriana

[01:25:25] ate a KFC and you lived in Nevada at the time you drove through the night to see seriana and what did you think of seriana I don't remember goddamn thing about it. The only thing I remember is the gif of George Clooney

[01:25:40] walking away from the car that blows up right you sometimes right there's he died right there's this scene where he's like in a Humvee and he's like no no don't do it then they all blow up and I don't remember why he won an Oscar for

[01:25:52] it. He won an Academy Award. I mean it was his only Oscar this year because that was like good night and good luck and then he got like nominated in like five different categories but I mean before the movie came out it was

[01:26:04] like oh he grew up here gained weight tryptic with him Matt Damon and Jeffrey Wright yeah I I could point it gone at Steven Gagan who I believe wrote and directed that film he couldn't tell me what the Jeffrey Wright arc

[01:26:15] was about I mean I it's so weird I have a theory that 75% of the people who voted for George Clooney didn't see serial they were just like sure it was a bad or something great it's always here anyway no it's not seriana okay

[01:26:28] it's not broke back it won a couple Oscars he won three last King's Column No that was the year later. Okay with that year walk the line give me another hand. No it's bad it's a bad movie it's a bad movie and I want a couple Oscar

[01:26:46] you won three do you know the movie I'm not I'm not placing look it's crazy that this movie exists it was criticized at the time for I know what you're talking about I know what you're talking about words of a geisha more of a

[01:27:00] geisha a Rob Marshall joint so it's thought to be an Oscar front runner and I think it was the Hollywood was like what should we give to Rob Marshall you know he made Chicago we should give him something kind of

[01:27:10] musically right I don't know you know like really complex period drama set in it's is it that it's set in China and feature Japanese actors the other way like it was it had this problem where it cast like Japan and feature

[01:27:23] Chinese right it cast it was it was a catch all Asian actor pool for a very Japanese movie because they were like let's just what I mean what not be get them on the phone John G like get them on get me right Lee right

[01:27:38] Kong Lee's and I think Michelle Yo's in it am I wrong about that I feel she is a supporting part I haven't seen it since it came out yes you're correct yeah believe it when you have one three Oscars cinematography

[01:27:49] well my girl Colleen outward one for costume yeah that also is a movie that Spielberg was going to make for years he bought the rights he had it set up a dream works he was always going to make it was a

[01:28:00] hot book club yeah and that was another thing when people were doing the Oscar prognosticating months out I'm being like it's going to be memoirs versus Munich it's going to be is it would all the irony if Steve got beaten by the movie that he almost directed and

[01:28:15] finally handed off to Rob Marshall our next great American director are newly anointed so some other movies and a good job guys family stone is in there which is a film that people now claim is good which I hate because it's bad it's got some moments

[01:28:31] no moments that I like family stone hey Todd terrible move definitely has some moments remember that scene where I don't even want to the ringer Rachel McCam so the ringer imagine that movie coming out today yeah people would not like it I mean people didn't

[01:28:51] like it then but imagine that now yeah and I think I've never seen it but I think it sort of criticizes Johnny Knoxville for pretending to be like mentally disabled or whatever the hell it is a special Olympics yeah but a rumor has it everybody

[01:29:04] fucks Costner yeah that was the working title for them I think that's an eighth and Ravens that I dug up from my the recesses of my brain Goblet of fire is there the worst Harry Potter I would agree at least I mean if you're giving Chris Columbus's movie

[01:29:19] kind of like you're sort of ignoring them I guess oh I keeping them in mind still think that's the worst one then Munich a Wolf Creek remember Wolf geez Sireana the producers lots and lots of movies in 05 that we're going to be Oscar players

[01:29:32] didn't that's the movies like the producer that's passing because you could have gone like if you ask I'm sure if you check through those boards right and found like the August predictions they would have been like best picture producers memoirs of

[01:29:44] a geisha Sireana Munich's gonna win in a sweep right yeah Mrs. Henderson presents oh there you go remember when she presented a new review trans America's probably in there so trans and she's trans another movie that release that today oh sure

[01:30:00] let's see how that goes who of the I'm actually issue of the polar express yeah that was a period time where Polar Express would make another 10 to 15 million dollars every year they just bring it back is dock into the station but that's it that's it

[01:30:17] well much like the film Munich were left with a lot of questions and in general unease thank you so much being here I was glad to be here people can follow you on Twitter yeah Twitter Twitter's a TV OTI

[01:30:29] you can find my work at box dot com or you know just following on Twitter do it to vote to vote to vote do you ever regret it being to vote because I feel like to vote you now you just made that your brand

[01:30:40] I don't because Todd Vanderwerf is such a long stupid name people would not spell it TV OTI that's easy it's easy to remember TV there's a guy who's TV OT who gets a lot of tweets from me and he just

[01:30:52] tirelessly is like I think you mean TV OT he's from like England or something why do they why not just do something else there's this my you know I'm David L. Sims right Twitter plug for me you know there's a

[01:31:05] David Sims yeah and like in his he's he tweets never yeah and in his profile says I'm not the TV reviewer or the fashion photographer is also a fashion photographer by my name this poor guy's probably just getting tagged like once every few

[01:31:18] hours like with some great job shooting Miley Cyrus this week's interview magazine there's a dude who was also named Griffin Newman who lives in New York and works for like Swiss banking for like credit Suisse they loved him in the tick every once

[01:31:32] in a while he'll send me something he'll be like hey I think this offer to star in a web videos for you all right anyway good times thank you Todd God how long have we known each other Todd 15 years yeah probably it's been since like 2002 2003

[01:31:49] Chicago Oscar right yeah I think so I think so and you were like you were like a tiny baby I was I was a tiny upstart baby who just got a computer in his room I was still married well congratulations you and live here so married today yeah

[01:32:06] congratulations to all of us grown into it a big baby yeah a little too big of you know pretty big very tall man that's a throwback very tall man anyway I thank you for listening please remember to rate review and subscribe Spielberg does another one

[01:32:22] of his classics you know three in two and then takes a couple years off and next week will be discussing his right it is his immediate follow up to this Crystal is a film called Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull which I think is the

[01:32:36] first film and an aborted Indiana Jones franchise we're not doing that I love that movie you love that movie. I mean I like parts of it but I think there's some good parts I think that's a movie that also falls prior to the Spider-Man 3 problem people focus on

[01:32:51] the wrong things they do but we'll talk about that next week that's right. But in the meantime I think and as always a big congratulations to students for this.