Open Range with Chris Ryan

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_00]: A man's trust is a valuable thing, Button. You don't want to lose it for a podcast.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. Don't want to lose it for a handful of cards, game of cards.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_01]: That line comes very early in the film. And it, to me, feels like Costner's stating his intent of like, this is where this movie is operating for the next two hours and 15 minutes.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Trust?

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is totemic. Everything is like the grandest statement possible about what defines a man.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? Every action, every line, every shot. It's like, this is a movie about moral fiber.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: This is about where you stand.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And then five minutes later, you're like, oh, that was a throwaway line that Robert Duvall delivered as if it was the most important line in the movie.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Five, ten minutes later, Costner kicks Diego Luna off horse.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Diego Luna's like, what's going on? He's like, the fucking card thing.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: He's still mad about it.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I told you.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I apologized.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything matters.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, no, you're right. You're right.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I got to that line and I was like, this isn't the best line in the movie, but it feels like the quote I have to do because it just stands out so strongly and early.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Really defending your line choice here.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: They're the longer ones.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to hear a longer one?

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It is a lot of monologues. This is a, yeah, this has got some monologues, some meaty monologues.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Kevin Costner loves to give a speech to a woman.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_03]: He does.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Just be like, you stand there for a second.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm about to pop up.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to encore.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to tell you how it is.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It would be cool if it was just like Kevin Costner live at Red Rocks and it's just women in the audience.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_02]: He's just talking.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He just like locks in with Jennifer Garner.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, you're getting the next five minutes.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: What I want, I want Kevin Costner to do a Kevin Smith style tour.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I want him to do evening harder.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Just him motherfucking Taylor Sheridan.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Dude, he could fund Horizon that way.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: He could.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: He could.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, right.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I want him to like talk shit about his past projects and the coward executives who got in the way of his vision.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But I also want him to just plant his feet, look at a woman in the second row and explain to her what a man is.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_01]: He's usually right.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not objecting.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the thing.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm usually like, yeah, you're right.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what a man should be like.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Kev.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I think Chris, you're a little older than David and I.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I think for our generation in particular, David, and even more so, I'd argue almost doubling for every generation below us.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: There is this kind of attitude I see from younger people that is like, he's a problem, right?

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Is Costner a problem?

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And their evidence is just like, he's got the vibes of someone who's a problem.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: The things he represents, in his basic essence, seem to be weaponized by the worst people in the world.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_03]: You mean this kind of heartland dad, you know, thing.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And men are men and women.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You got a looker.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And all this sort of stuff.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's not.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we got into this a lot in the post-man episode of like, his odd politics.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That often are defined by this sort of Western value of like, you need one good man to stand up.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_03]: One good swing vote.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And that man is Tom Daschle.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's the thing.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_01]: He likes like, Mayor Pete.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I keep bringing this up.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm like...

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the thing.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: He's so weird.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you say something like...

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of middle of the road.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You say something like, Costner likes to stand and look at a woman and tell her a bunch

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: of stuff.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're just like, oh boy.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you watch it and you're like, this is the most compelling shit I've ever seen

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: in my life.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He's good at it.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_01]: He knows what he's good at.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: There was...

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: When...

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: On draft day, Chris, I remember talking to the screenwriters a bunch about how they had

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to rewrite the script when he came on.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it was...

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: They wrote it with the intention of it being an Affleck movie.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Ben?

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_01]: They were like, that's her idea is it's like he's in his 40s.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Casey.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine if it's Casey.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, can I...

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll trade you pick.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I want Fonte McNamara one.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You pancake eating motherfucker.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_03]: That's...

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe too quiet.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe too quiet.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_03]: You pancake eating.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_03]: All right, they wrote it with Affleck in mind.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: They wrote it with Affleck in mind.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it went to Paramount.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It ended up going to Lionscape, but it went to Paramount.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And Paramount was like, you know who we'd make this movie with?

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Kevin fucking Costner.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Like some exec had the brilliant idea of like...

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You know who's good at monologuing.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know who's a little too old to be on the field?

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But we love him in sports movies.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was right after Hatfield's McCoys and they brought him back.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, we had to rewrite it a bunch when Costner came on.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Because you just have to run through your head the idea that everything Costner says feels like it's representing America.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Like he is like a living physical embodiment of an idea for good and bad.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Chris, do you like draft day?

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: You're a draft day guy?

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a big draft day like rewatcher.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially certain scenes.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I want my picks back.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just throw that on just to get in the right mind state for a pod.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_03]: What was the matter with America not embracing that movie with open arms?

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yes, of course, it's destiny was airplane movie, cable movie.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, of course, in retrospect, you see it and you're like, yeah, well, it's a movie.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: It's in offices.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_03]: It's perfect for that.

[00:05:22] What the...

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, come on.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, look, we'll get to later in the episode the 21 years between open range and Horizon

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_01]: part one and American Saga.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Horizon American Saga part one.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's it.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Where he does a lot of stuff, but he doesn't direct anything in between.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But this feels like the second horizon, the second swing at what draft day was attempting

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: to do 10 years ago, which was Hatfields and McCoys weirdly overperformed, was like the

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_01]: highest rated broadcasting cable in years.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: The two or three parts of that.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: He likes to mention that whenever whenever anybody is just like talking about yellow

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: cities again, Hatfields and McCoys.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I made the history channel.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So fuck you.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I've forgotten.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it is.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a big deal.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You're right.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Won the Emmy for it.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I think he did.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I think he won the Emmy.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: He won an Emmy.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a huge broadcast.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And all the studios like sat up and they were like, fuck is Costner back.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is coming off of a 10 year period where like open range is his most successful

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: movie.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I think if you average out critical consensus and box office consensus.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe had a few that were slightly better.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And also dads who were like open range rules.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Correct.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is why you're, you know, which is why we're all here today.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a film that had kind of lingered.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But he had like in that period.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's yeah, you're right.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like rumor has it.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, swing vote and stuff.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Upside of anger.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Stuff where it's like, yeah, no one really loved it.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a shadow of a better thing.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_03]: He's made before.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Totally.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Hatfields and McCoys hits really big.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Every studio sits up.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Snyder's the first guy to pull him and be like, put him in idea of America.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: He's Superman's dad.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And then these like three separate studios all have this strategy of like, we're going

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to relaunch Costner.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a three punch thing of in January, Jack Ryan shadow recruit is coming out.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: He's the elder statesman mentor figure.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: In February, I think the movie was called three days to kill.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: The McG movie.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Which was now Costner's got a gun.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: He's doing his taken.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And then in March or maybe it was the beginning of April draft day comes out and it's Costner

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_01]: sports monologue dad.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And those three movies in a row will have prime the pump and Costner's back.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And Jack Ryan bombed and the Lionsgate people were like, well, it's not really on his shoulders.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe Chris prime was a little green.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_01]: We're not worried.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And three days to kill came out and they were terrified.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, we fucked up.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: The movie's going to bomb.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, three Costner's in three months is maybe too much.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But there was this strategy and it was premature.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_01]: This is blank check with Griffin and David.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Griffin.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a podcast about filmography as directors who have massive success early on in their careers,

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_01]: such as making a best picture winner.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the highest grossing films of its decade, if not of all time at that point.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It was way up.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a big hit.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and I give a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a mini series on the films of Kevin Costner director.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And today we are talking about the only normal sized film he ever made.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Not talking in terms of length.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the only time he stepped up to the plate and wasn't going, I'm making an epic.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm making a class.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: As I told Chris though, it is his shortest film.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It is.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is wild.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's also, it's him being like, I'm just going to make one.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to make a paperback Western for you guys.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, right?

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: How better to describe it?

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Who's our guest?

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Podcast with Wolves is the name of this mini series.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Today we're talking open range.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And our guest today for the first time ever, long overdue.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You were saying I think the most requested.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: The most demanded guest.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I just didn't want to waste his time with this nonsense.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But this is what you're here to talk about.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: The man, the legend, the, the, the saga, the American saga that is Kevin Costner, Chris

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Ryan.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much for having me guys.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey Chris.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You can refer to me as Bluebonnet from now on.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Hell yeah.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: That's my given name.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you'll open up to that.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll, you'll, you'll, you'll admit it.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, um, you know, I was, I was very excited to revisit this movie with you guys because

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I realized that this is something where I probably have watched the gunfight 300 times.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and some other scenes, but like it's been a long time since I, I really crossed the river

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and then crossed the river and then crossed the river.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Then went into town, then crossed the river.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: This like in, in a long time where I did the full, the full sit and watch sat and ate beans a couple

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: of recording.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: We were talking about, uh, the day, the day we're recording this is the day after he did

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_01]: an extended sit down interview with Michael Fleming of a deadline and anticipation.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_03]: One of the great interviewers.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey Michael Fleming.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: In anticipation of horizon premiering at con where Costner just said some hall of fame shit.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But the point he keeps coming back to is like, there's a way I tell stories and I

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: trust and respect my audience and the studios don't fucking get it.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't care about them.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I care about the people.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is a movie that's like not a difficult watch.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_01]: No, you are like, he demands that you fully lock into what he's doing.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to adjust to his rhythms and his timing and his pacing.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And even just what you said of like, you're going to cross the river seven times.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to be five.

[00:10:51] Yeah.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He landed on seven for a reason.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: He shot nine.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: He cut two out.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: He wants you to know it could have been longer.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: There, that the tone of the deadline interview is this, is this kind of dad thing of like,

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I know better.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, and he, the undertone of the deadline interview, right?

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: That I feel like no one is like, that he's not specifically saying is like Taylor Sheridan

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03]: writes every episode of Yellowstone.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm .

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So when Costner's like, look, there were a lot of overruns.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I get it.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Writing is hard.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_03]: He's specifically saying, look, this is fucking Taylor Sheridan just like writing the whole

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_03]: goddamn thing.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Is fucking me up and I'm sick of it.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And he keeps adding new shows to his plate.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And he keeps adding, he's going to film every year as a television show.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Like that's his, his idea.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like Sufjan Stevens, but he's doing years.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_03]: He's just like, uh, 1982.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_03]: What was going on then?

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Two.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Two AD.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yellowstone two.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just two.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just fucking.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_02]: My favorite part of that, that whole, that whole run in that interview is Costner explaining

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_02]: modern streamer shenanigans with splitting six into five A and five B as seasons is like

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: my mom trying to explain crypto where it's just like, you don't really know what we're

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: doing here.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you could just say they didn't abide by the contract, but he'd be like, there was

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_02]: a six and a seven, but then it became a five B. And I actually, you know what?

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I think probably I'd be like, what is this five B shit?

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: He knows speak truth to power.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He knows that it's wrong.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think he can explain why I'm not, I'm not mad about it, but I'm rewatching

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Madman.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm almost done.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, Madman did the seven, eight, seven, D right.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe the first major.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Early in that.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_03]: AMC with Breaking Bad.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Where they were like, we can't say goodbye.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, let's spread it out.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Seven A seven B. And so halfway through your season seven, suddenly fucking Sterling's got

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: a mustache.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And is like, fuck, sorry.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I said my voice.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Leave it.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Forky was like, you know, what the hell?

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, you don't understand.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Like six months passed between these two episodes and it's bullshit.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Just do a new season.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It sucks.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: No, no.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: The whole, the backbone of the thing is.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not, they don't want to renegotiate your deal or whatever.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not even that.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not even renegotiating.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever you sign up for on the onset, it's baked in every season.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You get X percentage pay raise.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's 2% up.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: They don't want to give you a raise.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And they go, this is one season, but we're going to show the two parts of the season, eight

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_01]: months apart, release them in two calendar years.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We get two bumps in our quarterly earnings.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Two Emmy campaigns.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: We get two Emmy campaigns.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have to pay you shit extra.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you see in the interview that he's-

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_03]: He's right.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It's bullshit.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Of course he's right.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That he went to Cannes to see a Matrix movie.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Can you imagine him just like vibing with the Matrix reloaded?

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Not at all.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And like putting on his hat and being like, well, that was interesting.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_03]: This comes out.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Fun to meet the architect.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: That architect had a lot of good points.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he should run for office.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: My only complaint, he should have stood up.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Because cowards sit in chairs when they monologue.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: A man stands up, plants his two feet.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It would have been better if he was talking to a woman, telling her-

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Telling Trinity.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But Neo is a swing vote.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: He is.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, look, left or right, Neo.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think that's bad?

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think he walked out of Matrix reloaded into the studios at Disney?

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: He said, get those guns out of here.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Get those agents.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Take off those dusters.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_00]: We got something.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That would have been him going to see the Matrix reloaded.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: This movie comes out almost dead in between Reloaded and Revolutions.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it came out summer of 03.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Just an interesting way to place where this movie is and how anomalous it is in the studio landscape in 2003.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Chris, what's your Costner relationship?

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_03]: What's your, you know, what's your sort of life with Costner like?

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: It's uncomplicated.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's super positive.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: He has been somebody who, you know how like when you're a kid, your friends' older siblings or like the kids who were like in high school and you're in middle school or whatever, like they seem impossibly old to you.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you're like, oh my God, when I'm as old as Alex's brother, like I'm going to be like 50.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That's how Costner always seemed to me and always seems.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Like he always seems like he is like this thing that's going to be the next phase of my life.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a man.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Even all the way back to Untouchables where he's like this clean cut kid.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: He already seemed 50 to me.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll say that was the other thing the draft day writer said was everything we had to look at again, the character doing and saying through the prism of everything this guy does represents America and he is everyone's dad.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_03]: He is.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_03]: He's everyone's dad basically from like 1987 onwards.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's basically it.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like his his interests are at my my base and core.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I love the West.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I love baseball.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like I like standing and looking out over the landscape and dreaming big talking to women like yeah, and I love I love it when a woman just like gives me an audience.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: She's just like tell me what's up.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I just think he's been such a constant presence in my movie going life from as early as I can remember my parents even telling me like I was supposed to be Kevin Costner and big chill like when I first, you know, would walk through the living room and they were watching that and right.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It was he's so so yeah, like a real stalwart in my movie going life.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_03]: They had it on like twice a week.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You're like you guys.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the soundtrack was on every night.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the soundtrack was a lot.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You're gonna wash the dishes.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Silently.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I it is funny that yes, like the things he most represents are baseball and you know being a cowboy.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and those are things that it's like horses.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we have not left these things behind in America in American culture exactly, but they are old fashioned now and they're more like things were putting museum like sort of line around right like where it's like, yeah, no, we still respect baseball.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It's still fine.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_03]: It's good.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I love baseball to be clear, but like, you know, it's passing into it's like jazz.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: This is where I'm saying that younger people I think misread him where they're like it feels like this guy's whole attitude is things were better back then which isn't.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_03]: No, he he he he has like a perspective on stuff, right?

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But everything he does is rooted in there was a time.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, so did you see open range in theaters?

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, I'm assuming yes, I think so.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I would have been oh three in New York.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I think I was probably so yeah, I think I remember seeing it on a big screen.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, but it also is one that like it was a TNT stalwart and an HBO or Cinemax stalwart.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So as soon as I had thing three hours clean that's prime time solved 8 to 11 on TNT because I was trying to do the math on your wildly popular podcast the rewatchables.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Would Constance maybe be the most covered actor?

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: It's Cruz, but he's he's up there.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, he's in he's on he's probably on the rush more of people that we've covered on the pod.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys should do open range now realizing we're actually kind of bogarting this from you a little bit.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think honestly, like I wouldn't be surprised if someday we do.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it would be something where it was like I don't know if Bill love would love the first hour of this movie because it's a little it's a slow slow.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty deliberate. Yeah, yes deliberately based.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So I but I so I don't think I've ever really heard him mention it.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But like I know his dad is super into Westerns and he would probably have seen it at some point.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I do feel like like you said the film's ultimate cultural reputation is that it has one of the best gunfight scenes in like any Western period period.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and who thinks that Kevin Costner another instance of him being correct.

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, of him standing up and saying something.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Where you're like, she's the ego on you not disagreeing.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But like Jesus.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Take some balls to say that by the way your balls look great.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_03]: He probably has really nice balls.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I saw this film alone.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the first film that I ever saw by myself.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: It is a very clear memory for me.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I was 17 years old and guess what nobody in Britain none of my teenage friends wanted to go spend 140 minutes with Kevin Costner in open range.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I had to go by myself.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You look at the box office this movie almost made negative money overseas.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I'm actually amazed it was available to me in London.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I was like, no, come on.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like they have guns.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And people were like, I have to go to like a house party and smoke weed.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: This is maybe another aspect of Costner's reputation changing is like this is when Hollywood starts to become a lot more obsessed with overseas grosses.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And overseas values.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like this is the first moment, but this is certainly things getting more intense.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It was already starting to happen to him in the 90s.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: He is such a fundamentally American star.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_01]: That his movies and it's maybe why he was trying to take swings on things like Postman and Waterworld that even though they're very cowboyish kind of traffic in this sort of larger.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's bring genre.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And the way that you actually place yourself in the headspace of the run this guy had that was so insane was borderline like arguably as good as any run any list star had and the consistency of it.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And not just that it was like a series of almost unbroken hits and critical successes and many of them also Oscar successes, but that that run has basically all become canonized as rewatchables for everybody.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And then it's like a series of wolves.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_03]: The Postman.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: One like kind of fun movie in there.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And Waterworld has kind of retroactively become one of his big 10.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_01]: People kind of dig Waterworld now.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you feel about Waterworld, Chris?

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's honestly a rite of passage.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I would almost say it's like Citizen Kane.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you gotta watch it once.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You gotta watch it once.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So what about you?

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you see Open Rage Theater?

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I did not.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't like 14.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I just wasn't a big Western guy.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Costner hadn't, I hadn't come to terms with it yet.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you now, Griff?

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you become like a big Western fan since then?

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say I'm a big Western fan, but I love Westerns.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I always feel like it's one of those things like horror as well.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know you're a guy who goes so deep on horror where I'm like, I love horror.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I think you need to have certain bonafides to say you're a horror guy or a Western guy.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's about like digging around the corners.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I have not seen the C tier of great 50s Westerns probably.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_03]: The deeper you go.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I love a Western.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you a big Western guy, Chris?

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know like how completist I am, but like, I mean, it's up there among my favorite

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: genres.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I often will like go to sleep watching like whatever spaghetti thing I can find on

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Tubi that I haven't seen before.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's a very, very, very familiar genre to me.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I will watch guys get off a train and walk into a town and get a horse

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and kill someone no matter what.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_03]: But like killing someone.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Great.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm into it.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_03]: We love it.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_03]: We love harder on this podcast.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_03]: But I truly am like the, just the fucking screensaver of yeah.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Guys in leather jackets sitting by a campfire with horses.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And like one guy's playing the harmonica and you know, like, I'm just like, yeah, just

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: sit me here.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm saying to my wife the whole time, like I should do this.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, you would die in minutes.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, like you wouldn't make it one night without like being like, where is the bathroom?

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, but, but I just, you immediately I'm like, yeah, this is, I want to be in this

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_03]: as long as I can.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's be obvious.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You'd be the saloon owner who is never shot from anywhere but behind the counter.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That's who you would be in a Western.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: You would never step outside.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: The saloon owner who just won't put anything on the line is just, I'm just trying to just

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_02]: try to make a buck here.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't help that Baxter runs the town.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: What if I ran the cafe?

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I like how there's a cafe in a lot of Westerns.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I need to talk to you guys about the prevalence of cafe culture in open range.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It's so weird that like we found button feasting on cafe scraps.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what the hell?

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, come on.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I just like the idea.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, now I ain't open an ordinary restaurant out here on the plains.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm opening that cafe.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_03]: What does that mean?

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like that he like has bacon?

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Like what makes it a cafe?

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a barista coming in from Brooklyn.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_04]: You ever heard of matcha?

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It means you sit down at a table for four hours, even though you're actually only eating

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: or drinking for like 45 minutes and you bring your abacus there.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Abacus.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Abacus.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: That's where you read all your correspondence.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You're going back and forth.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_03]: It's gone through the almanac.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_02]: My version of that, of that screensaver is essentially the scene in Rio Bravo where

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Ricky Nelson and Dean Martin are singing.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's where I like, I've actually said to my wife, I was like, if I die, you could

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_02]: bury me here.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's just like, you're the weirdest person I've ever met.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, that is my favorite Western.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And that scene you're describing the rifle, my pony and me scene.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I just, the first time I saw that probably at some rep theater screening, maybe six or

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: seven years ago.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It had been a big blind spot.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I got to this scene.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, this is as good as anything gets.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: It really is.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: This is as level of, as I have ever felt in my life.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Just the sense of absolute comfort and satisfaction in that.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Pure well-buterin.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, yeah.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's leveled out.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Incredible.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I like that.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm worried about her because horizon's like a civil war saga, right?

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Like horizon's got like a lot of deeper stuff going on, right?

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: My understanding is that it's sort of him making a movie about the way America transformed

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: as a result of the civil war more than a civil war.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to be like a war movie exactly.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas like I want open range where it's like the conflict in this movie is they want

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_03]: to have their cattle graze wherever they damn please.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And this Irish gangster is like, well, that's my land.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't do it.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's it.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_03]: That's it.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the whole fight.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's the plot of the whole movie.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: We're open rangers.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like open rangers.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what that voice is.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't either.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You, Harmon.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to kill one of your guys.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Or he says, I'm going to beat up one of your guys.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: They get angry.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: They go to get revenge.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: He kills one of the other guys.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: He kills the same guy.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_03]: He tries to kill another one.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Injures the other guy.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they're like, I guess we've got to have a shootout.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess we've got to fucking take this town to pieces.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And the last hour and a half of the movie is them prepping for the shootout and then the shootout.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Costner uncorking a monologue.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Cool.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Benning.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_03]: While she just takes it like a fan in her face.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's truly, it's a movie where there is like one disagreement that is had early

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: on.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And things spiral out from there.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Leading to an inevitable shootout.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so simple.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It's very simple.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It's based on a book that looks like, you know, just like a paperback, like, you know,

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_03]: with the cover, it's just someone just drew a horse and it's like, I'm done.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a guy with a girl's west resting on his bosom, you know, and like he's looking

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: out at the planes and he's just like, well, we've tamed another town.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Here we go.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's so funny to me that like every other time he stepped up to the play as a director,

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: he is taking on something that is by its very nature, almost by design unwieldy.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Dances postman.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: He's going against like so many forces.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: This is like, let me strip it down.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: David.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what we like?

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, if you had to name one thing that you and I show like, I think we love the movie.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_01]: We love the movie.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And what do we love?

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_01]: We love going to see dumb movies at the theaters.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That is very, very true.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That's very true.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's very important to us.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: The theater experience is worth preserving, is the best way to experience a movie.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And let's, let's just say it, David, we're thrilled.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: We're excited.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: We're overjoyed.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: This has long been in the works to celebrate the great union of Regal and Blank Check

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: because Regal Cinemas is offering Blankies an incredible deal on unlimited movies.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, from the Regal Unlimited program, David,

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_03]: the Regal Unlimited program is an all you can watch movie subscription pass.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It pays for itself in just two visits.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You see any standard 2D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions, premium formats.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You can get your reservations for those as well.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Pay the little surcharge, which of course includes my beloved 4DX.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: With Regal Unlimited, you won't just save money on tickets.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You also save on snacks.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Members get 10% off all non-alcoholic concession items.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're planning to see two movies this month, Regal Unlimited just makes sense.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: We're both fans of this program.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_03]: We're both members!

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Regal Unlimited, exactly.

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_03]: We're both members.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Card carrying members!

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And it is insane how easy it is to use it.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It is so simple.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's easy peasy.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what else is easy peasy?

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: You can sign up right now on the Regal app or at the link in the description for this episode

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and use code BLANKCHECK, one word, to get 10% off your three month subscription.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is a big deal.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Huge.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a movie company that shows movies in theaters.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Which we love!

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Sponsoring our movie podcast.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And the two of us go to Regal Cinemas to see movies.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_03]: All the time!

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Once again, 4DX!

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't understand how exciting this is for us guys.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And I also want to say, here's some benefits.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You sign up for Regal Unlimited, you get the free tickets for your one subscription fee, right?

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Per month.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You also can earn points.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Get your points.

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[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I've been a member since 2008, baby.

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[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I do this all the time.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, how do you get figural cup toppers months later?

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Type, type, type, type, type.

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[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I love my birthday.

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[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a little more excited about it, David.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That's incredible.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It's really incredible.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_03]: What ease of use.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Once again, go to the Regal app or you can use the link in the description and use code

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_03]: BLANKCHECK to get 10% off your three month subscription.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you can go see movies.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I go to the Regal Essex a lot.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_03]: That's sort of my local Regal.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a little brag.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Where do you go?

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I go to Union Square because they got the 40X.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: A classic.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You like the 40X.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I love the 40X, David.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Regal.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let me, in fact, let me give you a little bit of the Costner, what he's been up

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_03]: to since the Postman.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_03]: He makes Message in a Bottle, a movie I've never seen.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Has anyone ever seen Message in a Bottle?

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I've not seen that film.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that Diane Lane?

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's Robin Wright.

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Robin Wright.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's one of the last Paul Newman movies.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Interestingly.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Huh.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a movie that does okay.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a Nicholas Sparks movie.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_01]: The first Sparks, I think.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_03]: He was sparking one up.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It does all right.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_03]: He does For Love of the Game now.

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, you have to have a For Love of the Game take.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not one of my favorite sports movies.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It should be a masterpiece.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_03]: It is so frustrating to watch.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a little bit of a tough, you know, loss for Raimi, for Kaz, for, you know, like,

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_03]: why isn't that good?

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But we definitely-

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm in a pretty minority position at the ringer when it comes to Love of the

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Other people love it.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, Bill is obsessed with it, I think because of how it screws up baseball, but

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, because-

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, also because he made it in the middle of the steroid era and like watched like Jason

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Giobbe juicing up or whatever it was.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And possibly fucked Cal Ripken's wife.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm repeating a rumor.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_03]: The rumor is that he fucked Cal Ripken's wife and Cal Ripken broke his hand and they

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_03]: had to sabotage Camden Yards.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Punching him.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But the electric grid went down in the city so that Cal Ripken's-

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So that Cal Ripken's-

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The streak could stay alive.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_02]: The streak could continue?

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: That's great.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: We did a full episode on it, Chris, and it is weirdly a movie where Costner staked everything,

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: where he did his classic, I'm not Ahab, but it has to be this way, and fought really hard

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: on everything and made everything more difficult and lost the battle.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But also, infamously, when the movie was coming out in the press, just shit talked the movie

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_01]: a bunch, was like, these execs are cowards, they didn't back up my vision, and they were

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: like, you're not the fucking director, dude.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And Universal issued a statement that was like, Kevin Costner was holding our asset hostage.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And this was in the week or two before the movie came out.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So that movie's underperformance also just kind of makes him borderline radioactive to

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_01]: studios, of like, is this guy no longer capable of being reigned in?

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Three more movies.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_01]: 13 Days, which we've talked about.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Solid.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Pretty good.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Pretty good.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Sort of like him doing an accent again, him in politics.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's a solid movie.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But cost a lot of money, didn't make a ton, didn't get the Oscar nominations they clearly

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: were hoping for.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: 3,000 a Miles to Graceland, a film I've never seen, obviously like a notorious bomb.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, I assume you have not seen 3,000 a Miles to Graceland.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I have not seen, I'm not a big Elvis, like, mythology guy.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But that's the absolute need deer.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's the point where it's like, he just released a movie that did nothing.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Then there's Dragonfly.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is, I never saw also, I'll admit.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll cover in 10 years.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Fine.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And as JJ pulled out, at the peak of his career in the mid-90s, he drops all of his representation.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_03]: He fired Michael Ovitz, or no, he fires the CAA when Michael Ovitz leaves CAA.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And he just has no agent.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And he had no PR person.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't show up to interviews and say this or that question is off limits, like he said.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe he finally is like, something's not working.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think basically everything between Postman and Open Range is him in the wilderness

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: where he's like, I make my own decisions.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and he decides, I'm gonna make a Western.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_03]: He developed two Westerns.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't know what the other one was, but Open Range is one of them.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, this guy, Craig Storper, who wrote it, uh, is a grip, basically.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And who's adapting this, like, sort of, you know, dime store Western novel that Costner had read.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Costner didn't even know it was a novel.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, he didn't know it.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, okay, right.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: He says he's read other works by the same author.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But was, had been working with this guy for like almost a year, uh, uh, developing the

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_01]: script and only then realized it was based on a book.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, please.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just say another one of my favorite bits in the deadline piece is when Costner's

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_02]: like, yeah, I showed, uh, Taylor the Horizon script just in case they needed some Yellowstone

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: writers.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, we were just wanting to show what we were working with over here.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I was just imagining Taylor sharing it to me like, thanks, man.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Cool, man.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_03]: He's handing him this like bound volume too.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It's probably like wrapped in leather.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_01]: This guy wrote four movies in the time it's taken you.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Um.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, that must have been part of this kind of like, uh, the subtweet of the thing.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like the fundamental thing is Costner is like, I am king, not you.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And I sort of know what he means.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I do too.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Cause like now the Yellowstone mythos is all like, oh, Taylor Sheridan, like the battle

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_03]: of the bard of the fucking, you know, mountain west, right?

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, and Costner's like, you know, Yellowstone doesn't work without me.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't, you know, explode without me, which is probably true.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And that just festers.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But also, I mean, this is in the deadline piece.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Costner talks about how he doesn't do press ever unless he's promoting a movie.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Or promoting a TV show that he refuses to speak to the press outside of promotional cycles

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_01]: for new projects.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's like, I don't even know what that means.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it's like, you mean you don't just like go on pods?

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Like what are you talking about?

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look, he's yet to say yes to us.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Come on, cause you were, we offered him mirror has two faces.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_01]: He never got back to us.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It's unrealistic.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I love Babs.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, no, but he was just like, I've basically let them for a year and a half say whatever

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_01]: the fuck they want about me.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Leaking stuff from anonymous sources about how I was unprofessional and shut down Yellowstone.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, I didn't break my rule.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't talk to anybody.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Now I have a new movie coming out.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll tell you exactly where I stand.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And he lays it out very basically, which was just like, I don't want to have downtime

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_01]: where I'm not working.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I, I, to be clear, I sympathize with Kevin Costner.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Yellowstone was probably annoying to make only got more annoying with all the delays.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And right.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, look, I'm, I'm not a young man.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to go do stuff.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And they carved out.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_01]: They were just like, here's when we'll be shooting.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Here's when you won't be shooting.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And he tried to develop.

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: He finally has the capital to fucking Mount his big magnum opus movie.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they suddenly were like, it's a five a and it's a five B and the five a isn't

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_01]: starting for 16 months.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, I sat around in my ass for 14 months.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't shoot anything when I was contractually like obligated.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, whatever.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Fuck you.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_03]: My favorite part was in Mike Fleming disses the runtime of his movie.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And he says, Oh, shut up.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I like that part.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And then he keeps circling back and saying, I was just joking.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was just joking.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But why are you so obsessed with the runtime?

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It's he was like this number you're fucking in love with is my favorite part.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You guys like Yellowstone never watched it.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_03]: The little bit I've seen of it felt like something I would vibe with of like, yeah, Dallas with

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03]: horses.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Like where I'm like, yeah, this is fun, but I was not so compelled.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: The first two seasons are awesome.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_02]: The it's just got a little bit of like, we can't afford to kill any of these people, but

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: the entire like the world that we've created is so violent.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: That like people survive office bombings and walk out smoking, you know, it's like a Marvel

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_02]: problem.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But it had it had like a it had like a real amazing spirit.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_02]: The first two seasons, I thought it was just like took itself so seriously.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is the sure entertaining.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_01]: It is awesome.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: What's your power ranking in the Sheridan shows?

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I know you're America's number one lioness defender.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I am.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought lioness was incredible.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also am a big fan of the first season of mayor of Kingstown.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, sure.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the renter.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: That is for absolute sickos.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I can't with a straight face recommend that to anyone who.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_03]: That's one of those things where Paramount spins a wheel for a while and then they're

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_03]: like, really?

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you didn't.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_03]: This isn't mayor of Easttown to be clear.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not the one with Kate Winslet.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the plot of an episode in the first season of mayor of Kingstown.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_02]: A meth dealer blows up a house with a child inside of it and goes to prison.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And Jeremy Renner's character orchestrates his assassination by multiple racial gangs in

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_02]: a prison.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And there and the whole thing is like the cops are going to let it happen.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And Jeremy Renner's like, you shouldn't.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Because if you do this, the lion will be out of the cage.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And you get like 30 minutes into and you're just like, what am I watching?

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, how is this?

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: How is this on my screen?

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Fucking Diane Wiest is in this.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_03]: What the hell is this show about?

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like set in like a town where prison is.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: He's Michael Clayton for jail.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That's Renner's character.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: He's the mayor.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: He is like the fixer of the city, but mostly in the corrections office.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He's a bail bondsman of some kind.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And he basically does a lot of like, I'm going to get these guys to like lay off the

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: drug dealing while the guards are on strike or, you know, like all sorts of stuff like that.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Aiden Gillen plays a Russian mobster?

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the thing.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It sure does.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_02]: If you go to any.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_02]: How's that accent?

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It's exotic.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's spicy.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: If you go to any Sheridan show and go one, two, three, four, five, six, go down to number

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: 12 on the cast list.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: The name will blow your mind.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's always right.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_03]: It's always these like Oscar winner.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I know the guy has obviously a track record at this point that he can draw

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_03]: in people.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And I do feel like he has this mystique where he's got his cowboy hat and he's

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_03]: like, yeah, I'm just doing my thing, man.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And like that works.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you get Nicole Kidman in Lioness.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And she's in that.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Morgan Freeman.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just kind of like, oh, also they're just here.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, not to speak of Morgan Freeman, but he's in a weird place.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_03]: He's in a very weird place.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But like there is a scene in Lioness where it's like it's Nicole Kidman, Michael

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Kelly and Morgan Freeman are talking to one another about like the Lioness program.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is it is another like pinch me.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't believe we've arrived here in entertainment.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_02]: The fuck is the Lioness?

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, this is a real thing.

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my God.

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Huh.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Taylor Sheridan's never made up a thing in his life.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's all real.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, and he's got something new that's okay.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Billy Bob Thornton is like an oil guy.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_03]: That's so good.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Landman.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Landman.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Jon Hamm's in it.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he's playing like a Titan of the Texas oil industry.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Isn't it funny how Jon Hamm now only plays the worst richest people in the world?

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's just jumped to that.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_03]: He's doing everything now.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he is charming.

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they could someone could do that with him again.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_03]: He's another guy who's in a weird place.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_02]: To pull it back to the Western.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I will say that probably the best thing.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_02]: The best thing I think he's done is, is still 1883.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_02]: That was the one everyone was vibe.

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_02]: The Sam Elliott thing.

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is just a really, really amazing.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I, I, I Lonesome Dove is my favorite Western novel and I, I, I, the miniseries,

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: it, it, it has the same kind of like, we're on a wagon train.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_02]: They were on a cattle drive and Lonesome Dove, but this is a wagon train going West,

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: trying to get to Oregon and Sam Elliott's leading them through the Badlands kind of.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just, it was just an awesome like miniseries can see.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And the, the, when they, when they end it, cause you kind of think, oh, this is going

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_02]: to go on for six seasons.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they can, they can take their time getting to Oregon.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It could take forever.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It ends like with such a hammer and it actually is so effective the way it ends that I really

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_02]: admired Sheridan for like being like, I'm walking away from the bag and just, I'm

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_02]: actually going to have like, I'm not going to get Yellowstone where like we're somehow keeping

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: all the main characters alive for, for five seasons.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's really brutal.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's also say Sam Elliott, much like Robert Duvall is the rare modern actor who you

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: put them in a Western and it's just automatic integrity.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It is automatic credibility.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's legit.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, you're making a real Western.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you, do you think Duvall's obviously incredible in the, in the Lonesome Dove miniseries?

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Like this character isn't like completely apart from that.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I feel like the most interesting thing about open range is Costner being like Duvall's

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_03]: first build.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_03]: He's the star.

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I am only making it if he's the star and I want like that to evoke that kind of like,

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, true gritty.

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Which I think is a two pronged mystique.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's Costner being like, I worship this guy.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to work with him and I want to make a work that is basically a tribute to him.

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the second part of it is Costner is relishing, relieving himself of the responsibility

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_01]: of being the guy.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not all on my shoulders or whatever.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas much as in many ways he is the protagonist of the film, you feel him loosing up of being

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: like, I can be a little more of a cad.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_01]: It's this thing I said that he like talked to me about on, on the set of draft day.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Where he was like always talking about Silverado.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And the sort of breakthrough of Silverado for him and that he got to be the guy who could

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: just be fun.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And basically from that moment on, it's like that launches him to untouchables.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And now it's like, you're the shoulders.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You're the steady hand.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Other characters, the other guys at the side are getting to be the color in the movie.

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're this like incredibly stoic vehicle for narrative to be carried through.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And this feels like by putting that emphasis on Duval, he gets to cut loose a little bit.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And he gets someplace sort of the sad, the sadder older version of his Silverado guy.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Like what if this guy never kind of grew up?

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And he kind of has this take of like, this guy's like a Vietnam vet.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's, it's the civil war obviously, but it's like, it's the same thing.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like come back from war and he doesn't know how to like fit into society.

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, he's a killer.

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And the weird part of this movie being like this odd kind of emotionally stunted relationship.

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Or like the roadblocks to a relationship between two people who basically have no language

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_01]: for like adult mature romance.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Who both know they're at a place in their lives where like they've maybe missed the window.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they've missed the window.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you mean him and Benning?

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_01]: For sure.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But just how incredibly awkward he is with her is so endearing.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_03]: He literally spends all day hanging out with Robert Duvall and Diego Luna.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_03]: These are his boyfriends.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Like this is it.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_03]: That's his life.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: They move.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_02]: He's rolling around in the mud.

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the highlight of his day is digging a wagon wheel out of, out of a pile of dirt.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he, he winds up with, with a tea set.

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And he meets her and it's so clear.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I want this so badly.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And I lack the language to make this happen, to understand it, to come to terms with it.

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_03]: The emotional intelligence.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so, okay.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So Costner develops this and he decides he has to direct it.

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you know, he felt like the little things given the state of movies would have been lost.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, someone would have gone through with a fine tooth comb and eliminated six or seven minutes brackets or 40 minutes.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Kevin.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Not complaining about the runtime of this movie.

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I enjoy it.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But Costner, I guess, has the cred to be like, yeah, this movie will be long and we'll sit in the atmosphere of this life.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Rather than just like, let's get to the conflict pretty fast.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And beyond cred, it's that he's putting up a sizable amount of the budget himself.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing compared to the horizon outlay.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But he's putting up a lot of the money himself.

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_01]: He's calling in a lot of favors.

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_01]: He's managing the production, getting it to the right size where he knows they'll back the fuck off.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's shit like, you get to the chocolate scene, which I think is one of the best scenes in the movie.

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And is the perfect example of the thing that anyone else makes him cut.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And that if he's the actor and not the director on the movie, the director says, do we really need this one in there?

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my entire like sort of theory about this movie is that it's essentially a B movie.

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, like the plot of this film could be done in a 90 minutes.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Quick and tidy.

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You never spend any time with Michael Jeter.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't go to the cafe for dinner and meet the cafe owner.

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't meet the chocolate salesman.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And all the stuff that you spend so much time doing, you could get in and out and knock this out.

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, it would have been like fairly entertaining, but probably not as resonant as this movie winds up being.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It's an on paper programmer.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And then like, but he treats it.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I almost I was like, it's hard to ascribe, you know, actually, in reading this deadline thing, you know, it's like, you know, it's hard to ascribe a certain perspective to him because I want to be like this guy shooting this movie like it's a European art film.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_02]: He's just like, I'm going to get the process of what it was like to be here and we're going to spend time so that the gunfight feels so momentous.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But like, he's got such a unique set of interests, I would say, you know, like in terms of like what he thinks is a valuable use of film.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm hmm.

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And once you give yourself over to that, I think there's some magic in there, but it is it is very odd.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It is very odd when you're like 99 out of 100 other directors know that the audience will understand that, like when they ride away from camp, that they did cross the river.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But we don't have to show it.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_02]: The third time, you know, and he's he is like, no, it go camp was on the other side of the river.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So when they go to town, they got to go over the river.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're just like, again, it looks nice.

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_02]: It looks great.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you want from him?

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And in that deadline article, it's like he keeps on setting up this sort of battle that's like I'm fighting executives and studios and networks who don't respect the audience.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And I have a deep relationship with the audience.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had it for decades.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they've been with me.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I owe them something.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I need to give them what they want.

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But then the second part of it is, but they actually don't know what they want.

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I know what they want better than they do.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a rise in American saga parts one, two, three and four.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:48:06] Motherfucker.

[00:48:07] Motherfucker.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's just like, you can't give.

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about making money.

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You keep saying like, well, you know, I like making money.

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about making money.

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not about this.

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not about that.

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just about I see a vision of things and this is how it should be.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is how it could be done right.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is what I want to tell the people.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not Ahab.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_01]: He keeps saying I'm not Ahab because I'm not obsessive in chasing these things.

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_03]: My I'm not Ahab shirt answers all the questions.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I that's sort of open range is a smaller version of that.

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Disney is like, we will give you 12 million dollars.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_03]: He puts up 10.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It seems.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's him and two other guys.

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_02]: David Valdez, too.

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Put together the remaining 10.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Which like, I think in like 1996, he can get this movie funded no problem.

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But he's also in 1996.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, no, let me make three hour sci-fi Western epics.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I have the I have the, you know, the backing for it.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And now his cred is gone enough that Disney is like, we don't want to do it.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we'll do it.

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll kind of do it because you're Kevin Costner and like it's cheap enough.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But like the lack of enthusiasm for a film like this in 2003 is pretty evident.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And if anything, people are actually more into a movie like this now.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I do feel like Yellowstone, et cetera.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_03]: There is more appetite for the Western a little bit.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is what Horizon is going to test out.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's not going to do that well.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, who knows?

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it will.

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think you should count it out.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not counting it out.

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_03]: He's been counted out before.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But like I'm not hearing Horizon buzz as I walk the streets of Brooklyn.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess that's not where I would be hearing it.

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_01]: 1990, Dances with Wolves.

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Big hit, wins Best Picture.

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And then three years later, Unforgiven?

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You had two Westerns win within a short period of time that were both these like all tourist

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_01]: movie star driven kind of, I mean, Unforgiven's fully revisionist kind of deconstruction thing.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But it felt like there was this movement of like, oh, is there a new Western wave coming?

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you have things like Wyatt Earp and Tombstone and whatever.

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_01]: But it does feel like by the time this movie comes out, which is only 10 years after Unforgiven,

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the thing is done.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the whole moment had like come and gone.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And especially to make a movie like this that is not framing itself as an epic because

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Dances with Wolves was like, well, this is a saga.

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Unforgiven is like we're viewing this from a modern vantage point to make something

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that's this classical and also this simple.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I think felt bizarre.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I see a lot of people refer to this as a revisionist Western, which I think it absolutely is not.

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_01]: No, not really.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It is a Western made from someone who lives in a modern world.

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think it's revising the view.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_03]: The only thing that feels quote unquote revisionist about it are things like his trauma about the

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Civil War being a little more direct.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the way that they shoot the gunfight, while I wouldn't I don't know necessarily

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_02]: is, you know, no perfect accurate to like what those were like the idea of like you do read

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_02]: about like these guys were basically drawing down on each other from five feet away and

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_02]: missing because the guns were 11 pounds and would misfire and go left and whatever.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And like so those guys standing right in front of each other and just like missing or nicking

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_02]: each other is somewhat from my understanding, historically accurate.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And like I think he plays up that you don't really that's not Peckinpah.

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not right.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not Eastwood.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you don't have that kind of that kind of like intensity of of like something to go

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_02]: wrong.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_02]: There are accidents that are happening all over the place.

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_02]: People are slipping and falling like that's not that's not a classical Western.

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the revisionist part for me, at least in the gunfight.

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of that, too, to me is just when, you know, the greatest American studio filmmakers

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_01]: were making Westerns in the 30s, the 40s, the 50s.

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_01]: There was a major calculation of these movies are partially for children.

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Good guys, bad guys.

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're trying to smuggle some of the more complicated themes or psychological depth

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_01]: in there.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But you're sneaking it through very conventional sort of programmatic.

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Like these are the stock beats of these types of movies that audiences have learned to accept

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and love.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Now these movies get made more infrequently.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm hmm.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And I do think people put that psychology first and foremost forefront because he's not making

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_01]: this movie for children at all.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, this is going to get released in August.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_01]: This is counterprogramming for grownups.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_01]: It was rated R, I think.

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_03]: He was mad about that.

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_03]: He's always fucking mad.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_03]: What was he mad about that?

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_03]: God, this is just like with For Love of the Game where he's like, I should say fuck eight

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_03]: times.

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It would have made like a hundred million more dollars.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But this is why he's like such an important like modern Western figure.

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_01]: His band, of course, is called Casey in the Modern West.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Is because like in his root philosophy, he approaches everything with the attitude of

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_01]: a cowboy in a movie.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm hmm.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Like Westerns like this, like open range are all about like you meet some guys and we establish

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_01]: what their code is.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And the dramatic tension for the rest of the movie is going to come from they have drawn

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_01]: a line for the audience.

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Of what they stand for and what they will not stand by and witness.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And the whole movie is about pushing them to face those lines and test them to see if they

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_01]: can break.

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, um, and that's like how he approaches everything he fucking does in his life.

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care what anyone else says.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_01]: This is who I am.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_03]: He's got a zillion quotes in this dossier, which are all, you know, badass stuff.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like he's a badass.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't deny it.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's not in vogue.

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not in vogue.

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_03]: But tough shit.

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a real genre.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_01]: In vogue is the term he uses over and over and over again of just like basically after

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Waterworld and Postman, he's just like, I know I no longer fit into this.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And like by 2003, the big movies are what?

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_03]: The Matrix.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_03]: The Hulk.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_03]: He brings up Hulk in an interview.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Like Pirates of the Caribbean.

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder what he thought of that.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Finding Nemo.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Finding Nemo.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_03]: He probably liked Finding Nemo.

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_02]: That's one tough fish.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's got lots of water.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_02]: He must have loved it.

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, Open Range, uh, is about Boss Spearman played by Robert Duvall, uh, who is a seasoned

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_03]: cattleman and he's got three hired hands.

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_03]: He's got Charlie Waite.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That's Kaz, who's an old ex-Civil War sort of, what was he?

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Like an assassin?

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't really, like, yeah, he was like a hired killer.

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he was essentially in like the 18, you know, the 19th century version of Special

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Forces.

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So it sounds like he was like plucked out of, out of, uh, yeah.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And he was like, he was like the lioness of, of the 19th century.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, he was plucked out of like the usual infantry to be part of like a kind of guerrilla force

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_02]: that's attacking the Confederates.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I think is key here is that this is sort of his like Top Gun Maverick character

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_01]: of like, this is an aged hotshot.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And even like the hair is so perfect for that because it's like he has highlights, but

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_02]: it's also thinning.

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's, that's where this guy is at.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_03]: He does have some cool guy tips though.

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's true.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Some little frosted tips.

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he had his run in the nineties where the, the press was constantly mocking the

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_01]: way his hair loss was clearly visibly taking over movie to movie.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And he just publicly always said his line, uh, uh, no plugs, no rugs, no drugs.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_01]: When it's gone, it's gone.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's still there.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think at some point he maybe went back in a couple of those things.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I was about to say.

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a very different head of hair now.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He does.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_01]: He does.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's kind of incredible to watch this where it's just like, yeah, it does.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_01]: His hair symbolizes something.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything about him symbolizes something.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, with them are Moe's played by the great Abraham Benrubi.

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I love Abraham Benrubi because of ER.

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I love him because of Parker Lewis can't lose, obviously.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, he, by all accounts was cut out of the postman and Costner gives him this role as

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_01]: an apologist and then proceeds to beat the shit out of him.

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_01]: He's really good in it, though.

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_01]: He's really good.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And he does get a lot to do at the beginning.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they have to forefront the character to make his death matter.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Diego Luna is button.

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Looking, dare I say, cute as a button.

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so, but here, okay, here's my big question.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Snack and a half?

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_03]: No, well, obviously Diego Luna is a cutie pie, but did Costner watch Itumama 10th?

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_03]: He must have.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, that is fun to imagine.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_00]: These two men, they stood up straight and they looked this woman in the eye.

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_00]: There's two men at once.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that was also a can when he was there for Matrix.

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Possibly.

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, oh.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_03]: He shifted his brain into Europe mode.

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: He must have seen it, right?

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I, of course he did.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Diego, this is like the first thing I saw Diego Luna in after Itumama.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he's in Frida, but I don't really remember him in that.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But this is kind of the beginning of Hollywood trying to plug him in.

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's great.

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_03]: He's great.

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_03]: He's full of beans.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_03]: He's really a sweet pie in this movie.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, and they are cattlemen and they're moving cattle.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_03]: On the open mind.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Free grazing.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_02]: They're free grazing.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_02]: They're going across the pastures and feeding off of whatever they find.

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And then they come into contact with somebody who doesn't like that.

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_03]: The great, the late great.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_03]: One of my Mount Rushmore actors, Michael Gambon, as an Irish douchebag who owns like a good 40,000 acres or whatever the hell is going.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_03]: How much land does this guy have?

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, get your cows over off of it.

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot.

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to see if I can find this.

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_01]: My grandmother, Chris, is in her 90s, let's say.

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And we email a lot.

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_01]: She'll just send me Aaron thoughts throughout the day as it needs to communicate what's in her heart.

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_01]: This was an email from last September, the day that Michael Gambon died or the day after.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_01]: The Sherpa throw is way, way too large.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're sure you don't want it, we'll give us an excellent present to someone.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_01]: This is her complaining about the blanket I bought her from Costco.

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Great puffer jackets.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Great warm enough.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then she just writes new paragraph.

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Read the obit on Gambon in the Times.

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Looking at his photo, I felt he was beautiful.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_01]: She's right.

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Felt more than just sadness.

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Certainly something spiritual.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, how do you feel about Gambon?

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, are you a Gambon man?

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Just an incredible, incredible character actor.

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I am a Gambon man.

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also, the Westerns of the late 80s to the early 2000s gave me a lot of self-consciousness about my Irish heritage.

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Because often, at least at Young Guns and Open Range, the Irish are the bad guys.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this movie is almost racist to Irish people, I will say.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But Young Guns is straight up racist.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it is.

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Ben, you often weigh in when we cover films on the podcast that are anti-Irish.

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been known to mention my thoughts.

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't find this portrayal to be very...

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Sensitive?

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Sensitive.

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_04]: No, not at all.

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if Jim Sheridan maybe had a different take on this material.

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_02]: If he was like...

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, obviously, Sir Michael Gambon, the great Sir Michael Gambon, an Irish actor, to be clear.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_03]: He's not just putting on some Barney accent or whatever.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Is the villain here and that's that.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_03]: There is this...

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess there's a perspective where you can be...

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_03]: This guy made it all the way from fucking Ireland.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_03]: He says as much.

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_03]: His whole thing is like, I just want my goddamn land and now you're coming.

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I don't know how much a bunch of cows eating some grass is really messing with his day-to-day margins.

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: He seems to already control a town or two.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Also, didn't he flee a place where land ownership was kind of the whole problem that he was trying to get away with?

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why he's got a chip on his shoulder about it.

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's much more of a sort of spiritual argument of if I let this pass, you know, I rule through fear.

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I maintain a hard line.

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's less what these guys are doing and more that they represent.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Because look, these guys are fucking free.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Is free ranger a thing?

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never heard that.

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, to this day.

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, if you're driving in the West, like, you'll see a sign.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_03]: This is open range.

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And that means, like, cows are allowed to, you know, animals are allowed to eat here no matter what the land ownership situation is.

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot of open range laws in America.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_03]: You live by your own laws.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of what Nomadland's about.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's what Nomadland's about.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And if this was set in the modern day, Blue Bonnet would work at Amazon.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, constantly pooping in a bucket.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's the best movie with pooping in a bucket in it to win Best Picture, right?

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Nomadland.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Is anyone else pooping in a bucket in the Best Picture winner?

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually weird there's no bucket pooping in Green Book.

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So, okay, so yeah, right.

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_03]: They go to town and Denton Baxter, the evil landlord of the town, is like, fuck you.

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I hate you.

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: You're open rangers.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_03]: They beat up Moe's.

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_03]: They put him in prison.

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_03]: The guys kind of ride in and get Moe's out of prison for, like, a hundred bucks or something.

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, for a lot of money.

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, it's initially going to be a bunch of money.

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think Baxter's just like, just get this guy out of here.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's true.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: They kind of intimidate it.

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_03]: You're right.

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_03]: You're right.

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_03]: They lean.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I guess this movie could just end with them being like, all right, well, this guy's a shithead.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go somewhere else.

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_03]: But sticks in their craw, to use a Griffin expression.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's also just like, there's a matter of principle here.

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And everyone in the town is like, we don't like this guy either.

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But what are we supposed to do?

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: We're just innocent townsmen.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: They bring Moe's to the local doctor, who's supported by a woman who Costner interprets at first as his wife.

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And continues to interpret that way for 90 minutes.

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Because he's too scared to basically ask.

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Who is Annette Bening in it.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty phenomenal performance.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Bening's amazing in this movie.

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: She's amazing in this.

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like there's almost, this is one of the last films in an era before she kind of enters.

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Her character poster.

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you know this movie had character posters?

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I vaguely.

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea.

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's.

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It's ringing bells.

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: They're really cool.

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: She's got a gun in her character poster.

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_03]: She doesn't really wield a gun in the movie too much.

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_03]: She's got a moment.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: No, but she likes to jump in the middle of a gun.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Bening's thing through most of her career is like few people have ever been able to more consistently portray a certain headstrongness.

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: She's flinty as hell.

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: She's the flintiest actress.

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a reason why.

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Look, it's not her best movie.

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not her best performance.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But Nyad is like a perfect encapsulation of what Annette Bening has come to represent.

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, fuck you.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me swim.

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_03]: God, that movie is a camp classic.

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think she's like, if you don't put a gimp suit on me right now, let me swim the goddamn ocean.

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: There was an incredible emotional sensitivity to what she does as an actor.

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But this is like one of the most quiet and internalized characters she has ever played.

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that fair to say?

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And she loved this character.

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: She was like, this is a great part.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, she's simple.

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: She's got principles.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: She's like...

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's so insane.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_03]: She has made one movie since American Beauty, which she basically like probably should have won the Oscar there.

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_03]: She loses, surprisingly.

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_03]: She's the performance in that movie that has aged the best, no question.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_03]: She does What Plan Are You From?

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is obviously like a noxious bomb.

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But then, like, just sort of, I think it's just chilling.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_03]: She doesn't really make...

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Until this.

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think she...

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_03]: She's a lot of kids.

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the era where...

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying she's not allowed to have kids.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: She's pregnant at the American Beauty Oscar year.

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That was part of the thing was people were like, she's gonna get up there eight months pregnant, whatever.

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: This is like...

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_01]: This is her coming back.

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: This is an outlier in her career up until that point.

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And then after this, she sort of pivots harder into like...

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And Costner talks about studio didn't want her, wanted a younger actress.

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, she's gotta be the right age.

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: The whole point is where these two people are in their lives.

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: They gotta be in sort of the same station.

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, you need to believe that she maybe thinks that love has passed her by.

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's not gonna be the case with a woman who's 30.

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And he even says in one of the quotes that J.J. pulled up, he was like, I like the lines in her face.

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I think they're cool.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: God bless.

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And I do feel like Benning is like this ultimate champion for one of the only top-level actresses in Hollywood who has clearly just aged.

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, you're right.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean...

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she's had invisible micro work done that I can't see.

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But like more so than anyone else, I'm like...

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: She looks like an adult person.

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she rocks.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that fitting.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody in this movie pretty much...

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: ...has this like incredible line that they're walking where they look authentically of the place where the movie is set, but they also look like movie stars.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Like even the way that the costumes work where it's like Kevin Costner just has a cool neckerchief, man.

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like did guys back then always have cool neckerchiefs?

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's a great touch, you know?

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the little garnish.

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like...

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And she has that same thing where it's like she's like wrapped up in a corset the entire movie, but just looks great.

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And she looks like a Net Benning, but also Sue.

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a great piece of like Hollywood movie making in that way.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Costner also...

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there are a few actors in history who have had a better understanding of how they play on camera.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Like he has such an incredible movie face.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: The angles of his head are so fascinating.

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And he understands the power of them.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And like you just see him making adjustments by a millimeter of the angle so that his nose catches the light the right way or whatever it is.

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: We haven't talked to Naby enough about Duvall.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to talk to Duvall.

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Who's unbelievable in this movie.

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Even though it's like, yeah, do your thing.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know what I mean?

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's not like...

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: This is not some challenge for him.

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's just a rare gift to see him play a guy like this.

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Right?

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how else to put it.

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: This is like a very obvious fit of a role where you're watching it and it's very easy to take for granted how high level what he's doing actually is.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It also feels like he's been doing this part for a long time and then Costner finally turns the camera on.

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, he arrives on screen like fully...

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: The full package is there.

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I love the note about like how he accepted this in 24 hours.

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, he was just like, yep, I'm in.

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'll do this.

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: His reps reach out...

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Or Costner's reps reach out and go, hey, we think we have something for Duvall.

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't take anything.

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We can't send him a script yet.

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not ready, but it's being written for him.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Please don't take on any other jobs.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they finally get back to him like a month later.

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_01]: They send him the script.

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: He says yes within 24 hours.

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Duvall for me is just like the ultimate.

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Has that guy ever had a dishonest moment in his entire career on screen?

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And beyond that, has there ever been a moment where it feels like he's even reaching an inch?

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Ging and screaming?

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say he keeps it fucking centralized.

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_01]: The judge?

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_03]: The judge.

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we hate the judge.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a bad movie.

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I can ding a moment of his performance.

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Thinking of shitting in a bucket.

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, no bucket.

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_02]: No, he's shitting.

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They just hose it off.

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: He lets it all out.

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about the judge at length.

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that Oscar nomination is patently absurd.

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah, yeah.

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But I can't criticize anything in that performance.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I've talked about it before, but he did like a very long sit down with Colbert last year

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: where Colbert went to Duvall's ranch that I think he owns in Montana.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: He's going to Duvall's ranch, and it is in Montana.

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_03]: That is correct.

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was just like a 40-minute interview.

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_03]: He's not going to the fucking Ed Sullivan studio.

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely not.

[01:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You go to his ranch.

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But Colbert was just like, how do you act?

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, not to ask the dumb question, but like, what makes you so good?

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And he gave this answer that I paraphrased a bunch poorly.

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You can watch the full clip for the better explanation.

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_01]: But he just talks about, like, it is having a sense of your own temperament

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and finding a way to bring anything the character needs to do within your temperament.

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're never reaching outside of it.

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Because the moment you reach is the moment something starts to feel fake.

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, yeah, that's his whole fucking philosophy.

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Duvall just makes everything feel like he's breathing.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just him existing.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so there.

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Gone in 60 seconds?

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: He's not bad in that.

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm truly just trying to find bad movies.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the thing, though.

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: In, like, absurd movies, you're never like, ah, Duvall hamming it up.

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no, like, he has no, like, Tommy Lee Jones two-faced performance.

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: What about when he played Joseph Pulitzer in Newsies?

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And he shows up at the end of the movie.

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, I'm going to crush you fucking kids.

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: He's gone big.

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: But, like, I've never felt like.

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes big.

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: He can go big.

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I've never felt him be self-conscious.

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_03]: What about, like, if he was playing, like, a network executive who had, like, kind of, like,

[01:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: a successful show on his hands?

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Like a big titty-tack?

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_03]: What might he say about that?

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a big, fat, big titty-tick.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: The other thing about Duvall is when I'm a kid, I know two Duvals.

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I know the Robert Duvall of my life.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is, like, open-range Duval.

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Bald guy.

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know that he was in Apocalypse Now and The Godfather with hair.

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm almost like there's two different actors to me.

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I'm like, he just became bald Robert Duvall in the 80s, and that is the Robert Duvall

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_03]: that I know.

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_02]: In my mind, he's bald in both Godfather and Apocalypse Now, even though I know he has hair

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: in them.

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_03]: It's actually insane that he has hair in The Godfather, because the hair on his head even

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: there feels crazy.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't he the, he's the Barry Pepper part in the original True Grit, right?

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_03]: That sounds right.

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Is he Barry Pepper or Josh Brolin?

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's Pepper, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I've actually never seen him.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, he's also, like, Boo Radley.

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I was going to say.

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: When you watch those ones, you're like, this is a third actor.

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: How was he ever 20?

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he rocks, to be clear.

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, always.

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Even in To Kill a Mockingbird.

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I mean, he's always good.

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But there is so much, like, humor and, like, sensitivity to Boss Spearman.

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that he hates God.

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_03]: He's happy to shit talk God after his nice dog gets killed.

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And there is this, I mean, there's the scene where he talks about his failed marriage.

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, that's the best scene.

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's the scene where, like, why is he getting a fucking, why is he getting an Oscar

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: nomination for fucking the judge where he's yelling and screaming?

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: This is our judge argument.

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And not this.

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Our judge argument was, if you're giving him a Best Supporting Actor nomination for the

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: judge, you have to nominate Duvall every time he gives a performance, which I'm not against.

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You can do that.

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just more absurd to single out that one.

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But, yes, it's like, he has this beautiful monologue about, like, his failed marriage,

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_01]: his failed attempt at being a family man.

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Costner's like, he never told me that.

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And it sort of sets Costner off on, like, this guy is me plus 25 years.

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's no looking back for this guy.

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Is this my final window to, like, make a happy life for myself?

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not failed.

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_04]: They died of typhoid.

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I blame that on him.

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he fucked up.

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: He fucked up.

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's on boss.

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean more in the sense that it's like, and then he just went back to being some lone dude

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: in the game.

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: He gave up.

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Doing dude stuff.

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: It's also, it's so great because, like, these guys have been out on the open range for,

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_02]: is it nine years?

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, like, this is the first conversation they're having.

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_03]: What do they talk about apart from, like, what the cows are up to and cards?

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_03]: What do they talk about?

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_04]: They talk about rain.

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, they can't even talk about fucking Netflix.

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, they have nothing else to talk about.

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_03]: They can't even talk about sports.

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the thing that kids don't understand when they're watching this movie is that these

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: characters don't even have Netflix.

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It is actually crazy.

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: This guy has never seen Squid Game.

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You know?

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, they don't know about Kissing Booth 1, let alone 3.

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And those things are costnerian in length.

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_03]: They don't even have the Yankees to talk about.

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: That actually is crazy that there weren't the Yankees to talk about in America for, like,

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_03]: the first hundred or so years.

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Did I tell you this?

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Did they invent balls yet, even?

[01:12:30] No.

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Fuck.

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_04]: That's rough.

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_04]: They had carts.

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I was...

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_01]: They got carts and buggies.

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I was on a plane recently.

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Humble brag.

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I was waiting for it.

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a JetBlue flight, so they got the satellite TVs in the back of the seats,

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: right?

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Got a little direct TV action.

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sitting there, I'm watching whatever.

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Fox Business.

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Fucking...

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably, like, flipping on a SpongeBob episode or some shit, right?

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: The guy behind me starts making weird noises.

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, fuck.

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You know that feeling where you're, like, in a space?

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, sure.

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way out.

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Doubly so when it's in a closed space.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, like the time I went to see the Wolverine and people started making noises

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I realized someone in the theater had been stabbed.

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But it takes a moment to acclimate yourself, right?

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, are we in danger?

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Especially on a flight.

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's intense.

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And the guy's just going, and he's right behind me.

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, is this guy having a psychotic break?

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_01]: What's he watching?

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I hear a couple other dudes on the flight make that sort of noise.

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the male flight attendant very sternly walks down the aisle.

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, is he about to, like, chastise?

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Is he about to break something up?

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And he walks up to the guy behind me and he high fives him.

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, because.

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And I go, oh, the Knicks must have won.

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: The Knicks won.

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_02]: See, you've obviously never flown American into or out of Philadelphia on a Sunday.

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Where, like, the fully, like, the whole plane is just like, yeah.

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[01:13:53] Yeah.

[01:13:53] Yeah.

[01:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And CR, I do not engage with sports.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I grew up in a household where it was the number one thing my brother and father care about.

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was around it a lot.

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like I had never been.

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You're aware of sports.

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Witnessed to something like this before.

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But it really did crystallize for me in a moment.

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there is a certain type of shared language.

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: For a certain type of guy who has no other outlet to express his emotions.

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And the only outburst he will allow himself is on a plane when the Knicks have won.

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That was really tough.

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Or watching the last act of open range.

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, but this feeling of, like.

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: He just wants to be with someone who understands him.

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: What crystallized for me was the flight attendant clocking the guy and going, I know exactly what he's responding to.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to say, hey, I'm right there with you, brother.

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, in this environment, if you're processing your emotions through sports.

[01:14:48] [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm saying.

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing is socially unacceptable.

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But open range, they can't talk about what sports are there.

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I'm saying this.

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Balls and hoops.

[01:14:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why these guys have never had a fucking conversation.

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because you can transition from, like, I don't think the Mets pitching is there this year to when my wife died of typhoid.

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the thing.

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's the faucet.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I also think it would have made a huge difference if you woke up at the sunrise.

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And worked nonstop.

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Harder than we've ever worked in our lives.

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, any day of the week, these guys are like, I had to dig out a wagon.

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[01:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, like, move cattle, like, four miles in a circle or whatever they're doing.

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you would be so tired, you wouldn't be like, oh, man, what I really want is an episode of SVU just to kind of take the edge off.

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's also acknowledge these guys basically sleep at the office.

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: They sure do.

[01:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: They, like, they sleep on the work site constantly.

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: They do.

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to figure out what's Boss Spearman's financial model.

[01:15:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Great question.

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So they've got, like, a not significant amount of cattle, seemingly.

[01:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[01:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it, and enough to fit in one shot.

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like it's miles long, lonesome dove style.

[01:15:58] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a small business owner.

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And do they ever mention, like, we're headed here because we're going to get, like, that

[01:16:04] [SPEAKER_03]: They never talk about, like, if someone's buying the cows from them or something like that.

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So this is Bob Dylan's never-ending tour.

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, they're just, like, the whole point is to take these cows around and fucking circled.

[01:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: No wonder the Irish guy's, like, come on, where are you guys going?

[01:16:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have a destination in mind?

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_03]: You assholes.

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Across the river and then the other way back across the river.

[01:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It's another one that makes this so fascinating.

[01:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: The Costner canon, both as actor and as actor-director, is usually when Costner's stepping up to the plate, the stakes of the movie are, this one's for all the marbles.

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And here's a movie where these two guys are like, we're just doing our thing and we'd be so happy to continue uninterrupted.

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And you fucked with us a little bit and we're debating whether or not we can let this pass.

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_01]: What were you going to say, CR?

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I was just going to say, like, it is one of those things that when you watch this film for the third or fourth time, you're just like, wait, where are they going?

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Where?

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You guys go to, like, Montana?

[01:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, where's the station?

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: No, but it's what's so profound about the Benning relationship to me is that, like, the conversation about Bluebell.

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_01]: What's his name?

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Bluebonnet.

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Bluebonnet.

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Losing his wife and child.

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Would never have come up had they not been taken off their usual routine.

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:17:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Hossner never would have heard this.

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_01]: It makes him view his friend in a different way, which makes him view himself in a different way, which then meeting this woman for the first time, he's just like, do I just want to go back to this fucking loop of doing this shit over and over again?

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_03]: He's also running away from his past.

[01:17:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, in this sort of drudgery and the kind of, like, hard work, right?

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll just do this.

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, at least I'm fine at this and I'm not hurting anyone doing this.

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_03]: He's got that great line where he talks about it.

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_03]: That's why the reluctance, I think.

[01:17:59] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, I can take these guys down probably, but, like, do I want to open that up again?

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Me, like, shooting people.

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: The line where he refers to the fact that he had a knack for it.

[01:18:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:18:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is what freaks him out, that he was good at it.

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: He was good at it.

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Killing people.

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what he's good at is fucking busting through a wall like the Incredible Hulk so he can shoot the 14th guy that's after him.

[01:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Just let me know when it's green light to talk about the guy who's fighting.

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we're almost there.

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to think of, like, are there any other touching, sensitive, atmospheric, environmental moments we need to, like, remark on?

[01:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, so there was a couple of things that when you're watching it, when I was watching it this time, I was like, wow.

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, the details that he, and he's talked about this a lot, the details that he chooses to focus on, like, bridging the road in town that's flooded.

[01:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's lots of moments like that, like, whether it's setting up camp, playing cards, like, the process.

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you said, digging the wagon out, like, which is a pain in the ass.

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, this really kind of almost, like, every other director, this is, like, a two-second shot of them walking across the road.

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's.

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And instead it's like, no, if it rains, you cannot get from the one side of the town to the other.

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's like, yeah.

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a real obsessive devil in the details guy, and I do think it's why the postman is the obvious stumble, is, like, he's not good at world building in a fictional way.

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He's great at, within realistic circumstances, drilling down to, like, and what are the tiny moments within that that most people would skip over?

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: When he also has to create the universe and establish new rules, Bill Maher style.

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so fucking sick of that guy.

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Really?

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's starting to get good.

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_02]: But he's just, he's really rounded into shape.

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_03]: My brother is obsessed.

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_03]: My brother is obsessed with sending me clips of Bill Maher.

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess he has a podcast, too.

[01:19:50] [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't have a podcast.

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_03]: He has Club Random.

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Club where.

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Where he smokes blunts with comedians and talks about cancer culture.

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you guys seen the Bill Burr clip?

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Bill Burr is like, where he's like.

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_01]: What the fuck are you talking about?

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Where he's like, shut up, Bill.

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I know about this stuff.

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And Bill Burr correctly is like, you've never done anything in the sphere of foreign relations.

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_03]: You're an asshole with a fucking talk show.

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Why are you better than me on this?

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so satisfying.

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the only time anyone has ever been like, based on what?

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you host a show with the word politics in it?

[01:20:23] [SPEAKER_03]: In the title?

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Jay Leno goes on that show.

[01:20:26] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, this isn't the fucking, like, think tank.

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Why do?

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_03]: New rules.

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, what were we talking about?

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Damn it.

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: We were talking about fording the flooded town.

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Which also.

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, awesome.

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, go ahead.

[01:20:40] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.

[01:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Just the postman thing of, like, he's trying to set.

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he can't do the world building.

[01:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_03]: No, boy.

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Also what, Chris?

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I think they used, like, 32,000 tons of water.

[01:20:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And that would be, like, a total, like, if I was producing this movie, I feel like, man, really?

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Because there's no fucking Chekhov in this movie.

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_02]: There's no, this is Chekhov's flood.

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to come back.

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it doesn't matter.

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't matter that it's flooding that night, other than it's like, it traps them in town.

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_02]: He saves the dog.

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is both a screenwriting gambit of, hey, this cause ain't so bad.

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_03]: He'll go save the dog.

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And the bad guy is so bad because he killed the dog.

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But then also Costner's, you know, the townspeople are like, these are all right guys.

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty much it.

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:21:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.

[01:21:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But then, of course, he saves the dog.

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But you don't need 32,000 tons of water to make that point.

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So much water.

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He could have just saved the dog from, like, falling in the river that was already there.

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_01]: The movie costs 22 all in.

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_01]: All the actors, I believe, work for scale.

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And the crew, I think, basically all work for scale.

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: They spent a million dollars building the town.

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that correct?

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_01]: He built the town because he didn't like the look of any of the towns.

[01:21:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Is a million the number?

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_03]: That's something like that.

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: They couldn't find it.

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was doing stuff, like, where they were like, the buildings are too far apart.

[01:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, make them closer.

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, fuck.

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_01]: They built the town from scratch.

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: In just an open range.

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say.

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_03]: They filmed it in Alberta, Canada, which is where you film westerns because it's still,

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_03]: like, rugged and rural enough.

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_01]: There's, I mean, so much of the entire country that is fully unpopulated.

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And he has said, like, the only reason this movie looks as good as it does is because Canada

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_01]: basically gave me three times the production value.

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: At better rates.

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It looks fantastic.

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.

[01:22:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But this set they constructed in whole, so none of it was on sound stages, all the interiors

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: are done in these buildings that they constructed just for this movie.

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Was so far out from civilization, they had to spend an additional $60,000 paving the road

[01:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: so they could drive from the nearest town to the set.

[01:22:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, like, him just being like, no, this is the place to spend the money.

[01:22:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:22:47] [SPEAKER_03]: The production value of this thing is immense.

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It does not, it looks like a way more expensive movie.

[01:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It looks like a $60 million movie.

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think the only other thing we should talk about for the shootout is the chocolate

[01:22:56] [SPEAKER_03]: scene.

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:22:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is kind of just the scene that gets cut.

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Costner's right about that.

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: In the hands of, like, whatever.

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Just, like, let's make a western.

[01:23:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, we don't need him rhapsodizing about, is it Belgian chocolate or Cuban chocolate?

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's Switzerland.

[01:23:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's Swiss chocolate.

[01:23:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Dark Swiss chocolate.

[01:23:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It's dark chocolate.

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Or pittersweet chocolate.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And, like, every part of that scene is on the chopping block if it's a normal movie.

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: A hundred percent.

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But, like, the things that come out of that where it's, like, first of all, like, you

[01:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: get the tour of candy that would have been available at the time.

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Then you get this store owner.

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Great performance.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's like, I never, I can't afford to indulge.

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: My own product.

[01:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: In anything that I sell.

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the high-end sort of leisure class.

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's, like, 20% of my margin if I eat one of those.

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And the interaction between the store owner and Duval, where Duval's like, you should live

[01:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: a life where you can have the chocolate.

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know what I mean?

[01:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, like, such a great moment.

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's so crazy that that's just happening before, like, an all-out slaughter is about

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: to happen outside of us.

[01:24:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's another thing.

[01:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: In most westerns, at this moment, where the two guys shake hands and go, I guess we're

[01:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: going into battle.

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: We might not make it out of this.

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Because they could always walk away.

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: They could always just, like, take it on the chin.

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_01]: In 9 out of 10 movies where that's the setup, the next scene is Costner goes to Annette

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Bening's door at night in the rain, tells her he loves her.

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: They at least have a kiss, if not sleep, together.

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the next morning he goes to the shootout.

[01:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, like, with the love of the woman in his heart.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, the chocolate scene is replacing that scene because he still basically hasn't built

[01:24:36] [SPEAKER_01]: up the courage to have the direct conversation with her.

[01:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And it is only after he survived the shootout does he have that talk with her.

[01:24:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: The chocolate is, like, the indulgence.

[01:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's also the, like, the slight emotional grounding of, like, what am I doing this for?

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But them giving the bite back to the store owner, let him try it, is so good.

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just love them coming in and being like, what's the best thing you got?

[01:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: We need to, like...

[01:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: What is your number one most expensive item?

[01:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: We need to spoil ourselves.

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going, I'm getting in a coffin with empty pockets.

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go.

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:25:09] Goddamn.

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_03]: That's so it.

[01:25:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, yes.

[01:25:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Then, right before they go to war, Charlie is like, what is your name?

[01:25:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Your name is not Boss.

[01:25:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:25:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I need to know your given name before we die.

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Blue bonnet spearman.

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Fucking blue bonnet.

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_03]: The greatest name in the world.

[01:25:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's Charlie Possileweight.

[01:25:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:25:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Possileweight.

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_03]: He does say, right.

[01:25:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not Waite.

[01:25:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It's Possileweight.

[01:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess he's embarrassed about sharing a name with a great character actor.

[01:25:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Probably.

[01:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Or embarrasses Irish.

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean...

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[01:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[01:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That might honestly be it.

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to get, like, an Atlantic City airbrushed name shirt that just says blue bonnet spearman.

[01:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: The one guy who recognizes that will mean a lot to him.

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And just a chocolate bonnet.

[01:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Rock.

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Two chocolate.

[01:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: It is such a good name.

[01:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But what was the other thing I was going to say?

[01:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You have the earlier moment...

[01:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it when Bennett is...

[01:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Benning is making them tea where Duval comments on that he can't hold the tea glass.

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he can't get his fingers in the hole.

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: That the hole is too big because he's broken his knuckles too many times.

[01:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Hell yeah.

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_01]: That these guys...

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: These are men.

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: But these guys have broken themselves in a way where they almost cannot enjoy life.

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, the tea set, which is another thing Costner is like, that gets cut if it's not

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Costner directing.

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this other motif of, like, you know, their sensitive side.

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_03]: They seem stinky.

[01:26:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Their carefulness.

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_04]: They're probably a little stinky.

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_04]: They seem really stinky in that setting in her home.

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Before we get to...

[01:26:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they feel that way.

[01:26:37] [SPEAKER_03]: They feel like these oafs.

[01:26:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:26:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, that's what you're saying about Costner.

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't know how to talk to her.

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to say, so before we get to the shootout, just to, like, lay out.

[01:26:46] [SPEAKER_01]: They bring Moe's to the doctor.

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: She's just standing by assisting.

[01:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: He makes the assumption she's a wife.

[01:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Then they keep on going back there and she starts reluct...

[01:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, not reluctantly, but starts very quietly, timidly making these overtures of you could

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: spend the night.

[01:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's just shutting it down.

[01:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I'm too nasty.

[01:27:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think he's truly, like, I'm too dirty to be in your house.

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I belong out in the wild.

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:27:08] [SPEAKER_01]: There's that part of it.

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And also, he's like, isn't that your husband?

[01:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I have too much integrity to sleep with another man's woman.

[01:27:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Then it takes so long for him to come around and be like, hey, this is so embarrassing.

[01:27:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:27:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You're never going to...

[01:27:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was your brother.

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So, last night when you told me to stay over, I thought it was your husband.

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Now he's like, isn't this, like, crazy?

[01:27:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And then even still, he doesn't act upon it.

[01:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Because then he's like, but also, I'm a piece of shit.

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a disgusting...

[01:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: He thinks he's going to die.

[01:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to die.

[01:27:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And you don't need to get involved with me.

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_03]: So, it's the two of them.

[01:27:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And how many guys does Gambon have, do we think?

[01:27:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Does someone have a count?

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Six or seven?

[01:27:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Does he have more?

[01:27:50] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a lot of guys.

[01:27:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, he has the three that are in jail plus James Russo, who we haven't mentioned yet.

[01:27:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Who rocks, obviously.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And those guys are all fucked up on chloroform.

[01:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So, that's awesome.

[01:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's also call out the guy who plays the doctor.

[01:28:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Dean McDermott.

[01:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, why does this guy look so familiar?

[01:28:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Why does his name sound so familiar?

[01:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I realized he's fucking Tori Spelling's crazy husband for the last...

[01:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's been on, like, a ten-year reality show.

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Their reality run.

[01:28:18] [SPEAKER_01]: What was it called?

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_01]: The reality show that is known as all of our fucking gossip cycles that they've just been monopolizing for decades.

[01:28:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: He gives a perfectly sort of locked down performance, and this is totally fine.

[01:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: He, like, limps in and limps out three times.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_03]: James Russo, I mean, just watching him in Beverly Hills Cop, obviously.

[01:28:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: He's playing a loose cannon.

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Love James Russo.

[01:28:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, that guy has to play a dirtbag, though.

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, has he ever not?

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: No, and this is him just playing the ultimate dirt...

[01:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I killed your friend.

[01:28:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed it.

[01:28:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It was fun.

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But, yeah.

[01:28:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So, those guys are in jail, and then I think Baxter's got about nine, 12 guys otherwise,

[01:28:57] [SPEAKER_02]: because it's, like, eight guys walking up the street and three or four hiding in the galleys.

[01:29:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Begins with...

[01:29:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Button is in bed still, laid up.

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Button's laid up.

[01:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Moe's is gone.

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Moe's is in the ground.

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: It's...

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: The dog's in the ground.

[01:29:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Just the two guys going into bed.

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Just two guys.

[01:29:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:29:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And they kick off...

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the coolest moment, basically, in movie history.

[01:29:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Is Costner just plugging one in Kim Coates' face?

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Which one of you killed most?

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: The preamble, though, is really awesome.

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Give me the preamble.

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: This is how this is going to go down.

[01:29:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right, right.

[01:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, him talking to a blue bonnet.

[01:29:27] [SPEAKER_02]: These guys, there might be two killers, three cow pokes, you know, a couple of ex-union

[01:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: guy or ex-army guys, and then they're going to come up the street.

[01:29:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Once we start shooting, like, if they're made of anything, they'll try and, like,

[01:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: retaliate, but there's going to be a couple who scatter.

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, here's how you live through this.

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Here's how we're going to...

[01:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're just going to make a run for the barn.

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, they're not counting on the townsfolk rising up in rebellion against Baxter,

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: but they get lucky with that.

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But, yeah.

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it is one of the all-time Western moves, which is, like, take the biggest guy

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: out on the yard first.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[01:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And he just walks up to Kim Coates.

[01:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Kim Coates is on screen for 90 seconds.

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Kim Coates literally is...

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's a good actor.

[01:30:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I like Kim Coates.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_03]: He just is just there to be shot in the head, which is a privilege.

[01:30:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I would like to be that.

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But first to be a giant prick.

[01:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: To be like, I loved killing him.

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[01:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And...

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_01]: This is...

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_01]: To paraphrase fucking the recently departed...

[01:30:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Why am I fucking blanking on his name?

[01:30:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Fucking Bob Rafelson.

[01:30:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not who I thought you were going to say.

[01:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Fine.

[01:30:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Bob Rafelson.

[01:30:39] [SPEAKER_03]: What did he say?

[01:30:40] [SPEAKER_01]: The famous line about him watching Bogdanovich's dailies from last picture show when the studio

[01:30:44] [SPEAKER_01]: was freaked out and said he's not getting the right coverage.

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, this thing's going to cut together like butter.

[01:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.

[01:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And this whole fucking final shootout sequence is like that, where it's just like every shot

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_01]: is so deliberate and so specific, starting with the cut of Costner taking out the gun,

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_01]: immediately going to reverse shot a bullet in head.

[01:31:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:31:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And then just, it's chaos.

[01:31:06] [SPEAKER_03]: There's like 40 minutes left in the movie when the gunfight starts, I think.

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like 20 minutes or shootout, 20 minutes or emotional wrap-up.

[01:31:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:31:17] [SPEAKER_03]: 15 minutes emotional wrap-up credits.

[01:31:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:31:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Like that's how they do it.

[01:31:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:31:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, it's both incredibly badass and it's also like a bunch of guys in their

[01:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: 30s and 40s wearing suits.

[01:31:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:31:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Or like cowboy outfits scrambling around, randomly firing at like maybe they hit someone, like

[01:31:38] [SPEAKER_03]: you say, with these shitty old guns.

[01:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and the deliberateness of when you have something that's kind of badass and cinematic,

[01:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: like fucking Costner.

[01:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Duvall, there's the part where Duvall shoots the guy through the other side of the barn.

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And the whole crate by his gun is like the silhouette of his body, like he's a fucking

[01:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Looney Tunes character.

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But then sometimes it's like Costner's moving the camera like fucking five miles away.

[01:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And letting you just watch with this sort of like objective distance, these guys scrambling

[01:32:08] [SPEAKER_01]: around in the heat, struggling to reload.

[01:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it looks as lame and clumsy as it possibly could.

[01:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it's all wide angles.

[01:32:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So you kind of always know where you are in the town, which is really brief because like

[01:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: you would want, you know, ordinarily you would just do all these quick cutting closeups.

[01:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's like some long sequence where Costner shooting at a guy who is hiding behind

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: a water barrel.

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's shot from underneath the horse basically.

[01:32:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Tilted up.

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just like Costner slowly like kind of blowing away this water barrel to get to

[01:32:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the other side to get to the guy he's, he's attacking.

[01:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it's, it's actually, you know, like you get into like the whole, like, can you

[01:32:51] [SPEAKER_02]: make an anti-war movie?

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you make an anti-gunfight movie in a cow in a Western?

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, this is pretty close.

[01:32:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's, there's some bad-ass parts of it, but there's, it's also like, man, this

[01:33:01] [SPEAKER_02]: would really suck.

[01:33:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like.

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It would really suck.

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I would be really bad at it.

[01:33:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I would probably die.

[01:33:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:33:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't be scared.

[01:33:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And it kind of also reinforces the whole, like the whole myth of like the gunfighting

[01:33:14] [SPEAKER_03]: in the West.

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And like, is you, you start to realize like, right, this is people watching from a house

[01:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: of like, you know, 500 yards away as these guys kind of scramble around and they're like

[01:33:27] [SPEAKER_03]: shooting puffs to smoke at each other.

[01:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're like, I think he got him.

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, it's not like whatever the Wyatt Earp mythos of like, yeah, he would just

[01:33:35] [SPEAKER_03]: come in and clear everyone out.

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But also like, you know, just tracking people and objects in space and time, which for me

[01:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: is the cornerstone of narrative filmmaking and the clarity with which you're able to do

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that.

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: This final chunk of the movie, you got like 15 characters in place.

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Across basically like three city blocks.

[01:33:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're always perfectly on top of what he needs you to follow, what he wants you to follow.

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Can I just read directly here?

[01:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Here, this was Costner in an interview with Roger Ebert right when the movie was coming

[01:34:06] [SPEAKER_01]: out about what you were saying, Chris.

[01:34:09] [SPEAKER_01]: It was very much his intent to like make a gunfight that didn't make guns seem cool.

[01:34:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:34:14] [SPEAKER_01]: He said, I know I'm going to get my gunfight.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_01]: That's an obligatory thing.

[01:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was happy to do it and wanted to do it.

[01:34:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think guns should be loud in a movie and scare you.

[01:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember this being so loud in the theater.

[01:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: The guns are so loud in this movie.

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_01]: The best anti-gun message is that there is a result after guns go off.

[01:34:30] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just people who are hurt.

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Animals are hurt and buildings are torn up and people are scarred for life.

[01:34:35] [SPEAKER_01]: A couple of people told me that after the gunfight, we should go have a drink and have

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_01]: a nice ending.

[01:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, if you look at the old black and white photos of the Old West, if there are

[01:34:42] [SPEAKER_01]: people dead in the street, townsfolk gather and look at them and those bodies don't disappear.

[01:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody has to pick them up.

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Someone's got to deal with them.

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: There's an aftermath of violence.

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_01]: If a normal person sees it, it will make them sick.

[01:34:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:34:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Go off, Costner.

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Rules.

[01:34:57] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so funny because Costner is, I'm like, you're like this cobbled movie star.

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But then he just hypnotizes me.

[01:35:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, you're from then.

[01:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You understand.

[01:35:07] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a story.

[01:35:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And he doesn't drop the dramatic principles of the movie and the characters during the

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_02]: gunfight.

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the best part of the whole gunfight is when Charlie's hunting down that wounded guy

[01:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and Boss jumps in front.

[01:35:26] [SPEAKER_02]: He's just like, we may kill, but we're not murderers.

[01:35:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:35:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And this distinction of like, you know, because a lot of this movie is about like domesticating

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_02]: the West and whether this like rough and tumble ranch hand can hold a teacup and the changing

[01:35:41] [SPEAKER_02]: of the sort of country at that time.

[01:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, whether there's place for them.

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Whether there's space for them.

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But this guy's like, you let the beast out and now you want to have rules about how we

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: clean this up.

[01:35:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But Boss is like, I have these principles where it's just like, if somebody quote unquote deserves

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: it like that, that we would go through with it.

[01:35:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But this guy's wounded.

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: He's not going to hunt you down like it's a great little moment.

[01:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And then they shoot it in such a way where you see like Duvall wins the scene pretty much.

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But Charlie walks over to the side of the barn and is like basically having like a PTSD

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: moment, but it's like the back of the frame.

[01:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a really, really interesting way of blocking it and shooting it.

[01:36:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And the final shootout happens with two old guys slumped in corners of a small room.

[01:36:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're like a foot away from each other.

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Gambon just being like, I'm dying.

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And he says it in this way that's kind of incredulous.

[01:36:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And Duvall's like, yeah, I don't feel bad for you.

[01:36:35] [SPEAKER_03]: This was over like cows.

[01:36:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:36:37] [SPEAKER_03]: You're stupid.

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Duvall's not like, I understand.

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm here with you.

[01:36:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry that, you know, we're Bushido here.

[01:36:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:36:43] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, he's just like, you're dumb.

[01:36:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, we just ate grass.

[01:36:46] [SPEAKER_03]: That's all we did.

[01:36:47] [SPEAKER_03]: You dumb Irish prick.

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't say the last word.

[01:36:50] [SPEAKER_01]: We skipped over it.

[01:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But it is such a good moment when Gambon basically takes the doctor hostage and holds Benning

[01:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: at gunpoint.

[01:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_03]: He's kind of overplaying his hand at that point.

[01:37:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, which he calls out.

[01:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Where he's like being, he's like, I own all of the you in this town.

[01:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you all are beholden to my behavior.

[01:37:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:37:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: He's mean.

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: He's a nasty bugger.

[01:37:10] [SPEAKER_03]: He's a nasty piece of shit.

[01:37:14] [SPEAKER_03]: The whole thing with Gambon was that, like, in the 90s in Britain, it was like, this is

[01:37:18] [SPEAKER_03]: one of the most masterful theater actors that ever lived.

[01:37:20] [SPEAKER_03]: He's a king.

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_03]: He does a lot of British TV and, like, indie movies and Peter Greenway stuff.

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Toys.

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: He's in toys.

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_03]: He's in stuff like that.

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But when he was going to do, I think, The Caretaker or something, like some theater thing

[01:37:33] [SPEAKER_03]: in New York.

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Actors' Equity blocked him for not being a big enough star because Equity could block him.

[01:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And Britain was one of those things where they're like, this is Michael Gambon.

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't misbehave like this.

[01:37:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:37:43] [SPEAKER_03]: This is one of our legends.

[01:37:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:37:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And then right after that is when he suddenly is, like, in any Hollywood movie.

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Gosford Park is 01.

[01:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Life Aquatic's 03.

[01:37:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He's really funny in Life Aquatic.

[01:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like there's another early 2000s one.

[01:37:56] [SPEAKER_01]: There definitely is.

[01:37:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You do.

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: His first Potter is the year after this.

[01:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: It's 04.

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You get the sense that if that one were directed by anyone other than Alfonso Cuaron, they

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: would have gone with a more obvious choice.

[01:38:08] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[01:38:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[01:38:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Cuaron picks him because he likes that he has this kind of, like, saucy, wicked side.

[01:38:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And the Rumble side of him.

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, we're presenting this guy as, like, sort of too kingly and too benevolent.

[01:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's the prime minister in Ali G in the house.

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that what you think?

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I was thinking.

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Layer Cake.

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[01:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: He's really good at Layer Cake.

[01:38:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, he's really, that's a fun performance.

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And then it's just, he becomes one of those British guys that's like, I'll play a Brit

[01:38:34] [SPEAKER_03]: for you, but also I can be in, like, The Good Shepherd or something.

[01:38:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, I can play, like, a kind of Tony American guy for you.

[01:38:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:38:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I can be a villain.

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I can, what, do you want some, like, video game narration?

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll do that.

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:38:48] [SPEAKER_03]: He's just like around.

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he definitely did that.

[01:38:50] [SPEAKER_03]: In what?

[01:38:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Elder Scrolls Online.

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there you go.

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, he's just, he worked.

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: No, he worked.

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_01]: He worked.

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I saw him on stage.

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Sleepy Hollow.

[01:38:59] [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.

[01:38:59] [SPEAKER_01]: 99 Sleepy Hollow and the Insider.

[01:39:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:39:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Sleepy Hollow.

[01:39:02] [SPEAKER_03]: He's great in that.

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Those are sort of his first two Hollywood toe dips.

[01:39:05] [SPEAKER_03]: He played a president.

[01:39:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Did he play Johnson?

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_03]: He played President something.

[01:39:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm looking through.

[01:39:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he played Lyndon Johnson in Path to War.

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_03]: It was like a TV movie.

[01:39:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I saw him on stage in Henry IV playing Henry, uh, playing Falstaff with Matthew McFadden

[01:39:24] [SPEAKER_03]: as Henry V.

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And David Bradley as Henry IV.

[01:39:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:39:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Incredible.

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And I saw him on stage in A Number, which is an amazing play with, where Daniel Craig played

[01:39:34] [SPEAKER_03]: three clones and he's the creator of the clones.

[01:39:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh.

[01:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So cool.

[01:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It was just the two of them yelling at each other on stage.

[01:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I saw it when they did it here and it was Dallas Roberts and I'm trying to remember

[01:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: who would have played the father.

[01:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Good play.

[01:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Good play.

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Good play.

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_01]: They made it into a movie?

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I love Gambon.

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Or a TV movie.

[01:39:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Wilkinson and Hardy?

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?

[01:39:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Sounds alright.

[01:39:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're right.

[01:39:54] [SPEAKER_03]: No, Reese Ifands and Tom Wilkinson.

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Gotcha.

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh.

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:39:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but I love Gambon and whatever.

[01:40:00] [SPEAKER_03]: He just, he's an asshole and he gets shot in the face and he's dead.

[01:40:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And then the last 15 minutes.

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And then like some movies, again, the cost are things.

[01:40:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Some movies end right there.

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_03]: He writes off.

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, alright, we did it.

[01:40:09] [SPEAKER_03]: See you later.

[01:40:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, audiences are shifting.

[01:40:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there like a stinger on this?

[01:40:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Like what's going on?

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's also the double down of being like, and now the guy's got his shit figured out.

[01:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[01:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes to Benning and he's like, I'm not quite ready to commit.

[01:40:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:40:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell you now that I should have proposed to you yesterday.

[01:40:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:40:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to do it now, but also I need to write off.

[01:40:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Correct.

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_01]: There we go.

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And Dallas Roberts.

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:40:42] [SPEAKER_03]: He's still kind of afraid of his feelings and she's like, I don't give a shit.

[01:40:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I have a big idea of our future together.

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I'm sure you wouldn't want to wait for me.

[01:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, what do you mean wait for you?

[01:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, what's going on around here?

[01:40:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:40:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:40:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And he rides off and it's this trick that many movies pull that is incredible because

[01:41:01] [SPEAKER_01]: it should never work where like a character leaves dramatically and then the movie straight

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_01]: cuts to them returning a while later.

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:41:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the only thing that they skipped through in this movie is his return.

[01:41:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And like so little time has passed for the audience.

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no feeling of absence that we've had to live through.

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: He basically cuts to like three shots of nature and then cuts back to him riding up in a different

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_01]: outfit.

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And she's been waiting for him.

[01:41:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And also Duval's like, that Swiss chocolate has given me a hankering for opening a salute.

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And they do.

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:41:34] [SPEAKER_02]: They just, there's a lot of growth in the cafe industry.

[01:41:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Huge.

[01:41:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Huge.

[01:41:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, do you think he's like, look, I make nothing driving these fucking cows around

[01:41:43] [SPEAKER_03]: all day.

[01:41:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I go to any cafe and I can get like a side of beef for like 14 cents.

[01:41:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I need to be on the other side of this.

[01:41:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, cause that's what my impression of like the old West is like, you'd be like, can I get

[01:41:57] [SPEAKER_03]: a 14 ounce steak and they'd be like, yeah, it's free with your room.

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, of course.

[01:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a hay penny.

[01:42:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is like when you watch Deadwood, you're like, oh yeah, it's the old times.

[01:42:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Deadwood, they're thrown around like, no, I'm getting 800 grand out of this deal.

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're like, I guess it's not that old.

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But then they can also get like a room for a dollar a week or whatever.

[01:42:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Deadwood is quietly set in 1982.

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:42:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, anyway, uh, open range.

[01:42:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:42:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It takes, yeah.

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a slow landing.

[01:42:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a glider coming in.

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Love it.

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I love it.

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Love it.

[01:42:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, it's yeah.

[01:42:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it sending audiences out like shooting guns in the air?

[01:42:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Like maybe not, but it was like a slow burn hit.

[01:42:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the end credits like happen over footage of how well decorated the home is.

[01:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think if you're like the architectural digest tour.

[01:42:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Truly.

[01:42:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Of Sue's place.

[01:42:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think if you're like a 24 year old living in Harmonville or whatever this place

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_03]: is called and there's like not a lot of women around.

[01:43:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:43:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:43:04] [SPEAKER_01]: In the time of this film.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You're like barking up Annette Benning's tree.

[01:43:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[01:43:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the most crucial question.

[01:43:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:43:09] [SPEAKER_02]: If you've got a good eye.

[01:43:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You're like, look, I know you don't want to have kids anymore.

[01:43:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You're probably past that part of your life.

[01:43:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But I still just want to throw down.

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, let's do it.

[01:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It is incredible that she's just like, no one's even asked.

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've also been waiting for a guy just like you.

[01:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:43:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Where have you been?

[01:43:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Essentially.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:43:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she has to buy a shirt that says I'm with my brother and wear it all the fucking

[01:43:30] [SPEAKER_01]: time.

[01:43:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, like maybe the brother could get a wife.

[01:43:33] [SPEAKER_02]: That could help.

[01:43:34] [SPEAKER_02]: He could.

[01:43:34] [SPEAKER_02]: A little bit of a distinction.

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you could introduce people and say, hey, I'm Dr. Dean and this is my sister who

[01:43:40] [SPEAKER_02]: serves as my assistant.

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It would just like really clear things up.

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_03]: No, but Tori wouldn't allow it.

[01:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Like even on screen.

[01:43:47] [SPEAKER_03]: She's like, you can't be married.

[01:43:48] [SPEAKER_03]: No, you have to be single.

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Only thing we weirdly skipped over because we love to talk about this guy in the podcast.

[01:43:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Michael Jeter.

[01:43:54] [SPEAKER_03]: The great Michael Jeter.

[01:43:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:43:55] [SPEAKER_03]: In his final film performance.

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: His last performance.

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: This is his last performance.

[01:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: The film's dedicated to him.

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And very self-consciously styled as like a Walter Brennan style, like John Ford supporting

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_02]: actor in this movie.

[01:44:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And it to great effect.

[01:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And you watch.

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_01]: No disrespect to Walter Brennan.

[01:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But you watch a lot of those films and you're like, oh, the comedy of the comedy characters

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_01]: is at a wildly different pitch than the rest of them.

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.

[01:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's your sort of classic.

[01:44:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Back in the day, it was like, hey, we need to like wake people up for five minutes.

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Like go do funny stuff.

[01:44:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like Michael Bay movies where you're like you have one guy showing up for four

[01:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: scenes who's just like.

[01:44:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Take your dentures out and blow on a harmonica.

[01:44:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Play into the rafters.

[01:44:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Goofiest shit you've ever seen.

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_03]: You're falling into a water tub.

[01:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Just that way, buddy.

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Michael Jeter is playing like the emotionally grounded version of that archetype.

[01:44:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:44:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And doing it beautifully.

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a beautiful actor.

[01:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're just like, it's not like he transformed his look for this, but he shows up in this

[01:44:48] [SPEAKER_01]: film and you're like, oh, right.

[01:44:50] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, obviously he is the heir apparent to those guys.

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's got the awesome harness that he can jump around his barn in.

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[01:44:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: What a king.

[01:44:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Where's there's a really good Costner quote about him.

[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he said he screened the movie for Jeter before he died, which he was really happy

[01:45:04] [SPEAKER_03]: about.

[01:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll read it to you.

[01:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: He says, you know, he's very much in the mode of the Walter Brennans and the Ward Bonds.

[01:45:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Cooper and Stuart and Wayne, they just wouldn't act without those guys.

[01:45:12] [SPEAKER_03]: They needed them to do the dance.

[01:45:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You need a scene where someone whoops and hollers and the heroes can't do that.

[01:45:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So you need the whiskey old guy to do the dance.

[01:45:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Jeter, one of the great dancers.

[01:45:22] [SPEAKER_03]: One of the most incredible dancers.

[01:45:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Watch his Tony acceptance speech.

[01:45:24] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll read for Grand Hotel.

[01:45:25] [SPEAKER_01]: For the fifth time on our Twitter when this episode comes out.

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the great moments in broadcast television.

[01:45:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But I also just love that he's like the moral center.

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_01]: They get to the town and they're like, no one wants to stand up against this guy.

[01:45:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, I hate this guy.

[01:45:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you.

[01:45:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been saying this for so long.

[01:45:40] [SPEAKER_01]: This guy sucks.

[01:45:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know that Costner's appendix burst a few weeks into production and he didn't bring

[01:45:46] [SPEAKER_03]: it up with anyone?

[01:45:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:45:47] [SPEAKER_03]: That's great.

[01:45:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Because he didn't want to shut down production.

[01:45:49] [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't have the room in the budget.

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And they had to build like a new bridge.

[01:45:52] [SPEAKER_03]: So like appendix doctors.

[01:45:53] [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, you can either have the flood or appendix surgery.

[01:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to choose one or the other.

[01:45:57] [SPEAKER_01]: He white knuckled it.

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Knew something was wrong, but didn't understand the scale of it.

[01:46:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And then once they had wrapped, went to the doctor and they were like, bro, your appendix

[01:46:04] [SPEAKER_01]: has been shot for weeks.

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_01]: That's fucking nuts.

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, movie did well.

[01:46:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, like we cost $22 million.

[01:46:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Makes about 70.

[01:46:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:46:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Worldwide.

[01:46:17] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like open at 14.

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Ended up at 60.

[01:46:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So like good fucking multiplier, 10 overseas.

[01:46:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And he also was just like, the thing I'm investing in is like these are long term investments.

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You read a lot of these quotes that JJ pulled up and he's like, the industry has become

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_01]: very obsessed with like opening weekends, theatrical grosses, DVD sales, them trying

[01:46:38] [SPEAKER_01]: to algorithm out like how much this will do in whatever territory.

[01:46:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, you make a good movie, people come to it.

[01:46:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It truly is.

[01:46:44] [SPEAKER_01]: If you build it, they will come.

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_01]: He does have this like moral thing.

[01:46:47] [SPEAKER_01]: If the movie is a good object, it will continue to play and have value, which is why I'm willing

[01:46:51] [SPEAKER_01]: to put my money into it.

[01:46:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It's also like a business proposition.

[01:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[01:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: We just did Jerry Maguire again on the rewatchables.

[01:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, his manifesto in the beginning of the movie is partially based on Katzenberg's

[01:47:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Disney.

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:47:03] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what they wrote, which is essentially the same thing Costner is talking about,

[01:47:06] [SPEAKER_02]: which is like we're way too beholden to opening weekend now.

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So the idea of a movie with legs and we used to like set these movies up so that they could

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: run all summer.

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And now we're like, we're setting these movies up so that they can run for one weekend.

[01:47:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And if they fail, like we're, we're out of business.

[01:47:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Like open range is a perfectly good example of a movie where it's just like, we're here

[01:47:25] [SPEAKER_02]: 21 years later, still talking about this thing.

[01:47:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:47:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:47:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think it's just because of Verizon.

[01:47:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I think I'm a lot of people I know are like, that's low key.

[01:47:33] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the best Westerns in the last like 30 years.

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_02]: That's exactly it.

[01:47:36] [SPEAKER_03]: It's one of those movies that when you mention it, there are certain amount, you know, certain

[01:47:39] [SPEAKER_03]: people will just be like, oh, well, open range is one of my favorite movies.

[01:47:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:47:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, quietly.

[01:47:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Just kind of why I wanted to do him in the first place.

[01:47:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Like all the other movies he did are the kind of bloated, insane, ego driven passion projects

[01:47:53] [SPEAKER_03]: that clear or bounce that we like to cover on this show.

[01:47:56] [SPEAKER_03]: At the time, open range is like a modest, well-made, like character driven movie.

[01:48:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what's well.

[01:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously next week we will be talking about horizon, which we have not seen yet.

[01:48:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:48:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And is the ultimate test of the balance.

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But as you said, he made two insane bloated passion projects.

[01:48:11] [SPEAKER_03]: One hit, one failed.

[01:48:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_01]: One a wild success, one a giant disaster.

[01:48:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the third film is just this like reasonable, perfectly executed little masterpiece.

[01:48:22] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[01:48:23] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to play the box office game, Chris.

[01:48:25] [SPEAKER_03]: This film came out August 13th to sorry, August 15th, 2003.

[01:48:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:48:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It opened number three.

[01:48:33] [SPEAKER_03]: 14 mil, as you say.

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Good.

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Solid.

[01:48:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:48:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Solid.

[01:48:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But number one this week.

[01:48:37] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to, you know, Chris is going to try and guess.

[01:48:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, feel free to guess if you want, Chris.

[01:48:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it your favorite movie?

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[01:48:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you talking about, say it.

[01:48:44] [SPEAKER_03]: SWAT?

[01:48:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So the film SWAT.

[01:48:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.

[01:48:46] [SPEAKER_03]: A great film.

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Clark Johnson's SWAT.

[01:48:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:48:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.

[01:48:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Is number two.

[01:48:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:48:50] [SPEAKER_03]: It opened last week.

[01:48:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.

[01:48:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Now that's a film.

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_03]: No drop off for SWAT.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:48:55] [SPEAKER_03]: SWAT's doing good business.

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_03]: People forget SWAT made.

[01:48:57] [SPEAKER_03]: A clean million.

[01:48:58] [SPEAKER_03]: A clean 100.

[01:48:59] [SPEAKER_03]: $116 million domestic.

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_03]: $116.

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_03]: $116.

[01:49:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you agree with me that SWAT fucks and slaps?

[01:49:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God.

[01:49:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:49:06] [SPEAKER_03]: More like slap weapons and tactics.

[01:49:09] [SPEAKER_03]: S-L-A-T.

[01:49:12] [SPEAKER_03]: SWAT, which is great, is number two.

[01:49:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But no, number one is a horror movie.

[01:49:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.

[01:49:17] [SPEAKER_03]: A big sort of horror title.

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_03]: 2003.

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:49:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's opening to 36.

[01:49:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It's opening to 36.

[01:49:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Like kind of blockbuster numbers for a big horror thing.

[01:49:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it Freddy vs. Jason?

[01:49:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Freddy vs. Jason.

[01:49:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, talk about a great film.

[01:49:32] [SPEAKER_01]: A movie I adore.

[01:49:34] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you feel about Freddy vs. Jason?

[01:49:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Was there a scream around there?

[01:49:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Is this kind of a dead period in between screams?

[01:49:41] [SPEAKER_01]: No, because Scream 3 comes out early that...

[01:49:44] [SPEAKER_01]: No, Scream 3 is 2000.

[01:49:45] [SPEAKER_03]: 2000.

[01:49:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Scream 3 is 2000?

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_01]: The screams come fast.

[01:49:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:49:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, and then it's...

[01:49:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It's 97, 98, 2000.

[01:49:52] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

[01:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And then 4 is 11.

[01:49:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:49:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:49:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you like Freddy vs. Jason, Chris?

[01:50:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Of course.

[01:50:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:50:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:50:01] [SPEAKER_03]: You're a smart man.

[01:50:03] Yeah.

[01:50:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Who wins again?

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is...

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I've seen that movie.

[01:50:06] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the story of my...

[01:50:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Jason, right?

[01:50:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like Jason...

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, Freddy...

[01:50:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Jason wins, but then maybe Freddy's still alive, right?

[01:50:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, Jason drowns him in the lake.

[01:50:16] [SPEAKER_01]: The final shot of the movie is Jason rising from the water, victorious.

[01:50:21] [SPEAKER_01]: With his head.

[01:50:21] [SPEAKER_01]: As they fought to the death in the water.

[01:50:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And the innocent teenagers, 20-somethings, have walked away.

[01:50:27] [SPEAKER_01]: They're no longer at the scene of the crime.

[01:50:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Jason rises victorious with the machete in hand.

[01:50:31] [SPEAKER_01]: The other hand, Freddy's decapitated head.

[01:50:33] [SPEAKER_01]: You think Jason's won.

[01:50:34] [SPEAKER_01]: As he walks towards the camera, Freddy's head winks.

[01:50:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:50:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So everyone wins.

[01:50:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I have...

[01:50:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is maybe a friend of a friend, but I've never forgotten this.

[01:50:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Who goes to see the film with his girlfriend.

[01:50:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And the lights come up after that moment I just described.

[01:50:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And she says, I don't get it.

[01:50:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Who won?

[01:50:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And he turns to her and says, the viewing public.

[01:50:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just...

[01:50:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I always think about that.

[01:50:58] [SPEAKER_01]: The audience wins.

[01:50:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:50:59] [SPEAKER_03]: The American viewing public.

[01:51:00] [SPEAKER_03]: We all won.

[01:51:01] [SPEAKER_03]: We all won.

[01:51:01] [SPEAKER_03]: On August 15th, 2003.

[01:51:04] [SPEAKER_03]: A perfect movie.

[01:51:04] [SPEAKER_03]: When Freddy fought Jason and Blue Bonnet fought that Irish guy.

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_02]: That dirty Irish landowner.

[01:51:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Who dared get too big for his britches out in Montana.

[01:51:16] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[01:51:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So number two is SWAT.

[01:51:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Number three is Open Range.

[01:51:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a good...

[01:51:19] [SPEAKER_03]: We're feasting right now.

[01:51:20] [SPEAKER_03]: We're having a great time.

[01:51:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Number four, it's a family comedy that is a big hit.

[01:51:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Freaky Friday?

[01:51:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Freaky Friday with Lindsay Lohan.

[01:51:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Also, soaring its way to a clean 100 mil, right?

[01:51:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and kind of another movie that I think the studio didn't see coming.

[01:51:34] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[01:51:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of a dumb.

[01:51:35] [SPEAKER_03]: This will do okay.

[01:51:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Right?

[01:51:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of an afterthought.

[01:51:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's dump it in August.

[01:51:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:51:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:51:38] [SPEAKER_01]: There is an argument that in the soup of what made Jamie Lee Curtis, quote unquote,

[01:51:46] [SPEAKER_01]: overdue for the Oscar, she finally wins.

[01:51:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Freaky Friday is a huge part of that.

[01:51:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Freaky Friday is like 20% of it.

[01:51:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:51:51] [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the...

[01:51:52] [SPEAKER_01]: She's really good in that movie.

[01:51:53] [SPEAKER_01]: People talk about that being a bad Oscar snub, that she should have gotten a Best Actress nomination.

[01:51:57] [SPEAKER_01]: She's got to go on Gloom now.

[01:51:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:52:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so weird that she won an Oscar for Everything Everywhere all at once.

[01:52:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a really weird win.

[01:52:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a really good performance.

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I think she's good in it.

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_01]: She's fine.

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I defend it.

[01:52:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like people get caught up on like, oh, she won because of narrative.

[01:52:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think she's very good in that film.

[01:52:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Who did she beat?

[01:52:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I forget.

[01:52:14] [SPEAKER_01]: She beat Stephanie Hsu.

[01:52:15] [SPEAKER_01]: She beat her co-star.

[01:52:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Angela Bassett for Wakanda Forever, which was the presumed frontrunner going into the night.

[01:52:21] [SPEAKER_03]: But eventually the Oscars were like, we're not fucking voting for the movie with Namor in it.

[01:52:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, for anything.

[01:52:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.

[01:52:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other two nominees were Carrie Condon.

[01:52:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:52:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Who's kind of the critic pick.

[01:52:32] [SPEAKER_03]: It's incredible in that.

[01:52:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Really good in that.

[01:52:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And then who is the fifth person?

[01:52:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Hong Chow in The Whale.

[01:52:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that actor.

[01:52:38] [SPEAKER_03]: One of my favorites.

[01:52:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm happy she got an Oscar nod.

[01:52:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, that's not a win there.

[01:52:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Number five at the box office, Griffin,

[01:52:45] [SPEAKER_03]: is a family comedy as well.

[01:52:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Another family.

[01:52:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It's opening this week.

[01:52:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of a bomb.

[01:52:50] [SPEAKER_03]: From August 2003.

[01:52:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It's sort of like a very, very, very mild camp classic.

[01:52:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Very mild.

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.

[01:52:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I know a few friends who kind of go to the map for this as like a good, stupid camp classic.

[01:53:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the distributor of the picture?

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_03]: The distributor is MGM.

[01:53:06] [SPEAKER_01]: The fine folks at MGM.

[01:53:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:53:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a real boom time for them.

[01:53:09] [SPEAKER_03]: It's on Sleepover, is it?

[01:53:11] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't even know what that is.

[01:53:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I do know what that is.

[01:53:13] [SPEAKER_03]: That movie's actually like, all right.

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Corral.

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_03]: No, come on.

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_03]: That's an 04 release.

[01:53:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like an actress, a name actress.

[01:53:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's an actress.

[01:53:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And a kid actor.

[01:53:24] [SPEAKER_01]: In 2003.

[01:53:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's Uptown Girls.

[01:53:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Uptown Girls.

[01:53:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[01:53:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You ripped that out of the quiver.

[01:53:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Great job.

[01:53:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Put that between.

[01:53:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, fuck.

[01:53:34] [SPEAKER_03]: What's his name?

[01:53:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And my finger's ready.

[01:53:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Put that between the eyes of.

[01:53:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I forgot his name already.

[01:53:39] [SPEAKER_03]: What are you saying?

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_03]: The actor who gets shot in this movie.

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Kim Coates.

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Kim Coates.

[01:53:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Britney Murphy, Dakota Fanning.

[01:53:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Never seen it.

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_03]: What is it?

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, she's a nanny and Dakota Fanning's kind of a pain in the ass.

[01:53:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, something like that.

[01:53:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Cool.

[01:53:53] [SPEAKER_03]: She's type A.

[01:53:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Britney Murphy's type C.

[01:53:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Number 6, Pirates of the Caribbean.

[01:53:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Going strong.

[01:54:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Number 7, American Wedding.

[01:54:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.

[01:54:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Going fine, actually.

[01:54:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I was going fine.

[01:54:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[01:54:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:54:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Seabiscuits in there.

[01:54:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[01:54:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Pretty good movie.

[01:54:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:54:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:54:09] [SPEAKER_02]: A film I have definitely seen.

[01:54:11] [SPEAKER_02]: We all saw it.

[01:54:12] [SPEAKER_02]: We all saw it.

[01:54:12] [SPEAKER_01]: In 03.

[01:54:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It was actually required.

[01:54:16] [SPEAKER_03]: It made 120.

[01:54:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:54:17] [SPEAKER_03]: These movies made money.

[01:54:19] [SPEAKER_03]: That's good.

[01:54:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And America was humming.

[01:54:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:54:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You had to see Seabiscuit if you wanted to vote, actually.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:54:24] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a box office weekend I'm obsessed with that we've weirdly never covered on this show.

[01:54:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't bring it up then.

[01:54:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the last weekend of July was the first time in 2003, the first time in history

[01:54:34] [SPEAKER_01]: that the top five movies all made more than $20 million.

[01:54:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're right.

[01:54:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, there was a fucking spread.

[01:54:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:54:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Different audiences were being served and it was Seabiscuit, Cradle of Life.

[01:54:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Correct.

[01:54:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Spy Kids 3D Game Over.

[01:54:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Just doing a different box office game now.

[01:54:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Pirates of the Caribbean and whatever weekend.

[01:54:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And is the other one a holdover?

[01:54:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Bad Boys 2.

[01:54:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:54:57] [SPEAKER_03]: It's good times.

[01:54:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Good times for America, except we were like mired in Iraq and it was actually terrible

[01:55:01] [SPEAKER_03]: times for America.

[01:55:01] [SPEAKER_03]: We need to believe in a horse.

[01:55:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Spy Kids 3D is number nine and Bad Boys 2 is number 10, just to close that out.

[01:55:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So that is the box office for open range.

[01:55:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And it does.

[01:55:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it has a good run.

[01:55:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, the end of August is pretty quiet.

[01:55:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:55:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, coming up is like the medallion and Dickie Roberts' child star.

[01:55:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So like there's space for Costner to graze.

[01:55:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, look.

[01:55:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Is what I'm saying.

[01:55:24] [SPEAKER_01]: In the Deadline article, Costner seems to imply that all in hard production costs of the

[01:55:30] [SPEAKER_01]: four horizons will end up being $100 million.

[01:55:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:55:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't actually.

[01:55:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to ask.

[01:55:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to parse this.

[01:55:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Was he saying that it was $100 for the first two or for all four?

[01:55:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I had always thought it was $100 for the first two.

[01:55:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And that quote made it sound like he has figured it out.

[01:55:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So all four will cost $100.

[01:55:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, he's also like, I'm just going to start shooting this at the end of May, whether we

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_02]: have money or not.

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if he is the best accountant in the world.

[01:55:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know if I want that guy on my books.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I do think he should explore DTC, direct to Costner.

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and you just like.

[01:56:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Costner Plus.

[01:56:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Costner Max.

[01:56:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And like, if you're a dad, it's $10 because like, you know, you'll pay it anyway.

[01:56:06] [SPEAKER_02]: But like, you know, if you're without children, it's just $5.

[01:56:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That's another.

[01:56:10] Right.

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think there's just like a live stream of him like chopping wood on Costner Plus?

[01:56:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, he has that Fox News.

[01:56:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the streamer.

[01:56:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, where he like narrates America.

[01:56:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's America.

[01:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: The national parks.

[01:56:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like footage of a tree.

[01:56:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Look at this.

[01:56:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Look at this eagle.

[01:56:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Look at her.

[01:56:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Only here.

[01:56:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You're right.

[01:56:28] [SPEAKER_01]: If there was like a yule long type stream of him just lacquering a table.

[01:56:33] [SPEAKER_01]: The most amazing thing Americans do is act like they invented parks.

[01:56:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:56:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It is so insane that they conquered this country, killed the people in it.

[01:56:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And then they're like, and then we have the idea of open parks.

[01:56:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Look at our grass.

[01:56:46] [SPEAKER_03]: We have the idea of not drilling here.

[01:56:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll drill right next to it, but not right here.

[01:56:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:56:52] [SPEAKER_01]: They want credit for both colonializing and choosing to not disrupt certain spaces of nature.

[01:57:00] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a quote in the deadline thing where he says something to the effect of like, look, I'm not driven by the opening weekend because some of my audience, they can't really leave the house.

[01:57:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And you can hear him talking around.

[01:57:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say a lot of my core base is 90.

[01:57:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:57:16] [SPEAKER_03]: He also says like, hey, the DVD market is still there.

[01:57:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, yeah, sure.

[01:57:20] [SPEAKER_03]: For your audience.

[01:57:22] [SPEAKER_01]: No, but it's smart because like Fleming makes his offhand comment of like, well, profits went down because DVD went around.

[01:57:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, my audience buys DVDs.

[01:57:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:57:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Not a Blu-ray.

[01:57:31] [SPEAKER_01]: They're 90.

[01:57:32] [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to send their grandson to Walmart to buy them Horizon Part One in October.

[01:57:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[01:57:38] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the long play.

[01:57:39] [SPEAKER_01]: He knows what he's doing.

[01:57:40] [SPEAKER_01]: He knows what he's doing.

[01:57:41] [SPEAKER_01]: We're done.

[01:57:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Wrap us up, Griffin.

[01:57:44] [SPEAKER_01]: CR, anything you want to plug.

[01:57:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Rewatchables.

[01:57:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Rewatchables, the watch.

[01:57:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm on the big picture with some frequency.

[01:57:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You're in the rotation.

[01:57:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:57:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It was just fantastic to be here, guys.

[01:57:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for having me on.

[01:57:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for making the time.

[01:57:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing to have you after all these years.

[01:58:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It had sort of been on our agenda, especially after we did the legal draft on big picture.

[01:58:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[01:58:08] [SPEAKER_01]: That you were part of.

[01:58:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And we were sort of like scrounging around.

[01:58:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we committed to Costner.

[01:58:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And there was an aha moment day.

[01:58:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:58:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But I just turned to Dave and I said, we should obviously ask CR to do open range.

[01:58:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But we're going to get you back sooner than, you know, whatever.

[01:58:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Please do.

[01:58:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Nine years.

[01:58:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:58:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for coming on.

[01:58:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you got any strong opinions on riding cars with boys?

[01:58:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Not to spoil our next miniseries.

[01:58:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:58:29] [SPEAKER_03]: We're not doing Penny Marshall next.

[01:58:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Are we not?

[01:58:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Stop baiting our audience.

[01:58:34] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[01:58:35] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[01:58:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Wrap us up, please.

[01:58:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for being here, Chris.

[01:58:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you all for listening.

[01:58:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Please remember to rate, review and subscribe.

[01:58:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for to Marie Barty for helping to produce the show.

[01:58:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to AJ McKeon for editing.

[01:58:47] [SPEAKER_01]: AJ McKeon is also our production coordinator.

[01:58:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel for a theme song.

[01:58:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to KC and the Modern West for the theme song of America.

[01:58:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to JJ Birch for our research.

[01:59:00] [SPEAKER_01]: He put so many good paragraph long Costner quotes in the dossier that we might need to ask

[01:59:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Marie to just screenshot some of them.

[01:59:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if we just read every cool thing Costner ever said, we wouldn't have our own opinions

[01:59:11] [SPEAKER_01]: on this episode.

[01:59:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to Pat Reynolds, Joe Bowen for our artwork.

[01:59:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You can go to BlankCheckPod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon

[01:59:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Blank Check Special Features, where we are doing tabletop games.

[01:59:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we are.

[01:59:28] [SPEAKER_03]: We're doing...

[01:59:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, God.

[01:59:30] [SPEAKER_03]: What are we doing?

[01:59:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Clue coming out around this time?

[01:59:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Waterworld will be up on that feed, too.

[01:59:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Waterworld.

[01:59:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:59:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Listen to Waterworld episode.

[01:59:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:59:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[01:59:38] [SPEAKER_01]: That will be a great one, I think.

[01:59:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[01:59:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Tune in next week for Horizon, colon, An American Saga, part one, a film that at the time of

[01:59:49] [SPEAKER_01]: this release will have been out for a month and we have yet to see.

[01:59:51] [SPEAKER_01]: We might be doing Trap next week.

[01:59:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're right.

[01:59:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Trap.

[01:59:54] [SPEAKER_01]: We're taking a little break.

[01:59:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're doing that.

[01:59:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about it.

[01:59:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Just a little interruptus.

[01:59:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We have to figure out the timing of the two Horizons and Trap.

[02:00:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.

[02:00:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But that's what we're doing.

[02:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[02:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[02:00:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And?

[02:00:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And as always, Kevin Costner is America's daddy.

[02:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[02:00:11] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.