Point Break with Lux Alptraum

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to express All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Bode, this is your fucking wake up call man I am a P-O-D cast

[00:00:27] Yeah, no that's great. That's the best line in the movie, right? It's a great delivery. I love that line I love that movie This movie that we're talking about today on what podcast? Blank Check with Griffin and David Hi, I'm Griffin Great job, David Sims Griffin Newman

[00:00:47] This is a podcast about filmography directors who have had massive success earlier on in their career and are giving a series of blank checks to make whatever wild passion projects they want Sometimes those checks clear, sometimes they bounce, baby And this is kind of the movie that starts

[00:01:02] The checkbook is sort of issued with some contingencies after this No, no, no, no, no Because after this is her blank check This is her blank check, her whatever This is her loan approval What do you call the movie that gets you the blank check?

[00:01:19] Right, what do you need to do to get a checkbook To open a checking account? Right, this is her two forms of ID You're guarantor This movie's her guarantor This is like your rich parent coming with you to the bank That's the word, this is her guarantor

[00:01:32] Thank you for talking on my before we introduce you as I prefer Thank you Always So this is a main series about the films of Catherine Bigelow It is called Pod 19, The Widowcaster That's right And today we're talking about what is sort of I mean weirdly

[00:01:49] She's got two defining films of her career Her consensus favorites, I guess Right And this is the first Right Yeah Two movies that if you point a gun at someone and say What are your favorite Bigelow movies? They, you know, like family feud style

[00:02:04] These would probably be top two Right, and they're arguably like Hurt Lockerby Yes, they're arguably like two major phases of her career And this represents one The second represents the other Yeah, I would say there's the sexy boys phase And then there's the sort of like gritty realism

[00:02:19] Like topical Docu-Drama phase And then I'm curious to see whether I feel like we might be on the verge of a third phase I would love her to go back to sexy boys, honestly Me too Yeah, that'd be just fine

[00:02:30] This is one of the sexiest boy movies ever made Yep It is called Point Break Yep And boy, everything about this movie is sexy Steeped in the female gaze Yes It is But even just like I want to fuck the waves in this movie That's also true

[00:02:43] You know, like everything is so well shot I want to fuck the meatball sandwiches in this movie It's a very like weirdly sexual romantic movie in every sense Because I do, I look at the sandwiches I'm like, that's a good fucking looking sandwich

[00:02:54] I want to fuck Swayze's hair in this movie Swayze's hair is unbelievable He grew that shit That's him So the movie we're talking about today of course is K-19 The Widowmaker Point Break The phone we're talking about today is Point Break

[00:03:08] And I'm very excited for our guest we have today Who has already spoken because She knows her shit That's how I like it She knows her shit She's a big support of the show And she's a performer And a writer Gal about town Gal about town TV producer

[00:03:24] All kinds of shit All sorts of stuff Friends of mine looks out Trump, thank you so much for being here I'm so excited to be here This is one of my top five movies I said to David and Ben This is like your toy story too Yes

[00:03:37] Like this is the movie that you know backwards and forwards Have analyzed every single element of Could probably watch the most Have maybe watched the most I love it so much I feel like years ago when we were still Star Wars podcast and we were kind of like

[00:03:48] What's this podcast going to be You pitched us on a Point Break episode I probably did That's what I remember Yeah, because I love it And it's finally come to pat And it's my dreams are coming true And it's all downhill from here

[00:04:02] But it is one of those movies that you like Enjoy Because I know I have some distinction between Like these are my favorite movies and these are What I think are the best movies ever made And there's some overlap in my top 10 list

[00:04:14] But like this is a cross-section Way for you where it's like You probably enjoy watching this as much as any movie ever made But you're also like fascinated by the semiotics Of this movie and everything Yes, no I took my like pages and pages of notes

[00:04:25] But no I mean it's interesting because Like I think it's a great movie There are also things that are ridiculous And stupid about it But it's like if I make a list of like The top five movies that are like Not necessarily greatest movies ever made

[00:04:38] But like movies that like I love It is definitely on there And like movies where I'm like These are maybe little outliers But like I'm deeply emotional about them Point break But it also is like one of those movies Where everything that's stupid about it

[00:04:50] Is baked into the cake Like it's necessary for the things that are Like aesthetically wonderful about it to work Well yeah like I was watching it this time And I was like everything that she plants gets paid off Like there's just like so much shit

[00:05:02] Where you're like oh that's a throwaway detail No it's not And there's also this weird thing where like I feel like largely because of this movie Catherine Bigelow's reputation for a long time Was like someone like a Walter Hill Or something right

[00:05:15] Where it's like they've had some hits They've had some flops A certain like section of like the film Literati go like there's a really strong Technical filmmaker there But they work so much in genre And so much of it's kind of like Extensibly corny that like

[00:05:31] A certain pretentious film snob Won't take them seriously And it isn't until like a decade or so later That people go like no that's a real deal filmmaker And we didn't give them credit at the time And I feel like that re-evaluation

[00:05:43] Was happening right around the time that Hurtlocker came out Like she had this amazing timing where everyone was like Oh we didn't really appreciate her when she was getting Big studio budgets did we And then she made like a quote unquote

[00:05:55] Serious adult movie without those like genre trappings Well this movie when it came out did not get great reviews Exactly that's what I'm saying Like people were like oh it's like dumb fun Like I feel like it's one of those movies that critics didn't want to admit

[00:06:08] They respected because it's sensibly stupid But it's not Yeah and also the critical community in 1991 Is maybe a little less right Like interested in trash masterpieces or whatever Right but that's like something like the Warriors or whatever Where when it comes out everyone's just sort of like

[00:06:22] Okay I see what you're doing You like Walter Hill we get it I just feel he's an interesting kind of like Counterpoint you know But he never had his Hurtlocker But it does I think it's like really well done But it's also really easy to miss

[00:06:34] Like it's not well done it is Because like there are the ridiculous elements I mean it's basically a movie about like Tim Tebow becomes a cop and then learns to surf But it is like It is such a tight fucking screenplay It is W.Peter Eilif

[00:06:50] What else has he fucking done He wrote Patriot games after this He wrote like a bunch of other specs And sort of you know he not Not what you would think of as a great Screenwriter but he's like a Hollywood guy This was his breakout script

[00:07:04] I'll call up his credit She perhaps plus this substantially If he hasn't made another film that's this Oh yeah I mean look If you read this on the page you wouldn't think Like that's a great movie right No but while I was watching it I was like

[00:07:17] This is so fucking well structured It's a well structured movie and it has A handful of like All Hall of Fame lines But you know I'm just saying like The script itself is not Certainly enough to Let's see he um

[00:07:32] Yeah he makes he writes Patriot games after this He writes Varsity Blues Oh my god first Then he writes Under Suspicion With Morgan Freeman and Gene Hackman It's like a shitty crime movie Uh then Oh boy that's Kind of it You know what

[00:07:50] Yeah that's sort of the end to him He's still around I guess but This feels like one of those things where like She got the script that might have been overwritten at first And was like we can cut a lot of this You know what I'm saying? Yeah

[00:08:01] The dialogue is really good They're all these iconic lines But there are also a lot of scenes that like There's certain sequences The dialogue is really good but it's also really bad I don't know it is a very fine line

[00:08:10] Like I mean the dialogue to live it wrong Would be torturous There's some camp to it Yes high High amount of camp to it There are also these like sequences of the movie That feel like Battleship Potenkin Where it's just like these like very raw visceral images

[00:08:24] And it's only playing out on faces And like blaring music you know There are like four moments like that That are just like transcendent Yeah there's also an I think an attention to stunts Like that's very careful and brilliant Playing out on back of heads

[00:08:40] In the case of many of the surfing scenes Right or very far away Yeah well yeah you tried fucking surfing Keanu'd never surfed in his life Swayze had like a couple times But Swayze liked to skydive So he did that shit And you can tell like

[00:08:57] They had to stop him at a certain point Swayze's face in the skydiving Whereas Keanu it's like far away Or really really close I mean Keanu did some of it Like he did the jump Which is I feel like the crucial stunt Which is so fucking good

[00:09:13] I think that's like a top 10 stunt of all time Is him jumping out of the plane I agree Whatever it is But Swayze he loved it so much I think they had to stop him Like there was some sort of like You're gonna hurt yourself

[00:09:26] Now have either of you folks seen the remake? No you like it I don't Well you said the cinematography was good And I got mad at you for like two weeks about it It is, it's very true Yeah well I don't want to talk about it

[00:09:36] It just feels like if you were like Hey that person who cut off your sister's face And started wearing it Have you gotten coffee with them? Yeah Now point break the sequel I mean the remake Yes Edgar Ramirez is the Swayze right Correct Who you tell me

[00:09:50] Who plays Reeves Luke Bracey I know that answer Who the fuck is Luke Bracey Are you ready for this? No I'm not ready I'll never be ready He played Cobra Commander in G.I. Joe 2 Retaliation He replaced Joseph Gordon-Levitt Okay once Cobra Commander is fully under the mask

[00:10:07] And you don't see his face And I think they dubbed over the voice He was the physical performer for Cobra Commander Right And then he got to replace Keanu Reeves That was his next movie Not okay I think he did a Nicholas Sparks film too He's like fine

[00:10:21] He's like a Plank of Wood Apparently he was in Hacksaw Ridge But all of the sort of background soldiers He's one of them He's an Australian dude He's a handsome Australian Sure He's like a fourth, you know, Hemsworth Like a seventh Hemsworth Sure

[00:10:35] He was in the best of me That's the Sparks you were talking about I think he was young Marsden in that Right And a big thing that happened Was that was supposed to be Paul Walker And Paul Walker died But they had already cast Bracey

[00:10:47] To play young Paul Walker And they're vaguely similar He looks more like Paul Walker than he looks like Nothing like Marsden Yeah Alright anyway But no, but the interesting counterpoint is that The point break remake was directed by a cinematographer So it's just a fucking It looks good

[00:11:04] If you cut it down to 45 minutes of IMAX done photography It'd be the best movie ever made Well No, because the shit in it is unbelievable I'm sure it looks good You mean it would be a very good looking movie It'd be an incredible piece of film

[00:11:16] To have You guys are at film of waves You all know what the real point break remake is Fast and Furious Yes, it came out in 2001 It's called The Fast and the Furious It's basically a carbon copy of this movie And it's great

[00:11:27] I just want to set up those two pillars As counterpoints that I might reference again As we go through this movie Because the things this movie gets right And we know I love the Fast and Furious franchise But like I probably, I hadn't seen this movie

[00:11:40] Maybe since I was like 14 on cable Oh sure And I've rewatched the original Fast and Furious Too many times since then Yeah And so I had forgotten how much beat per beat It really follows the original Fast and Furious Fast and Furious just rips this whole sale

[00:11:53] I mean the structure of it Not obviously everything about it But even the basic character dynamics Yeah And like the fact that there's a raid halfway through Where Walker has to then be a cop again Yeah You know, like a lot of the, yeah

[00:12:07] And then the ending obviously And then just the same beats and the same order And the same timing Except Vin Diesel doesn't die But you know But he lets him get away He lets him drive away Right Except in point break when he lets him get away

[00:12:17] You get it more because he's like Well, he's gonna die Yeah Because like Swayze needs to suffer more than Diesel needs to suffer Swayze is a little scarier in this movie Than Diesel is Which is the thing I love about this movie Right Me too

[00:12:29] But also talk about a good decision Could you imagine if they ended The original Fast and Furious With Vin Diesel driving off into the middle of a wave Yeah Or even like Driving off a clover or whatever Right Yeah, yeah, yeah They could bring him back

[00:12:41] They fucking bring everyone back in those movies Sure And then he tapes all the major story beats Of point break but doesn't execute them With the same level of Stalm Finesse Because Rob Cohen is No Katherine Bigelow No And then point break

[00:12:53] The remake takes the exact same basic plot details And amps the stunts And the stunts shit's great And none of the character stuff works What so ever Doesn't it have more than surfing though? Do they do other extreme sports? That's the thing Okay, right But they also

[00:13:05] They fuck up all The core elements of what makes the story Interesting Which is They don't want to make Edgar Ramirez scary They don't want to make him redeemable So A, he's a Robin Hood figure He steals money but gives it back to the people Oh no, no

[00:13:18] You can't do that But Swayze is a Hollywood hero right now Right? This is the last good movie he ever made Which is nuts After an incredible run After a sort of like brief but intense run Of stardom Where he was directly tapped into the zeitgeist

[00:13:31] And everything he did And then after this it's gone Right Never makes a hit movie again Which is so weird Which is weird because this is his best performance And He's a monster in it I'm showing my cards here But I really liked him in Tuong Fu

[00:13:44] Thanks for everything You know what? I take it back And that was actually a quasi hit That's the one thing he makes That's a hit after this And he gets a Golden Globe nomination Right But after That was him having to like do the like

[00:13:57] You never imagine Patrick Swayze doing this performance Let me just do Swayze really fast, please I have thoughts on that Okay So his first, I feel like his first big hit is Red Dawn in 84 But that's like, you know, he's a young guy

[00:14:08] You don't know if he's going to end up being anything But then he's in North and South Which was this very big hit miniseries about the Civil War That launched him to fame And then that's in 85-86 And he's in Young Blood Which I've actually never seen

[00:14:21] Me neither And then he's Dirty Dancing in 87 Which I love, was obsessed with as a child And then Stealed Dawn in Tiger Wars Whatever But then 89 Roadhouse 90 Ghost 91 Point Break Yeah And then that's all He's doing great I mean, Dirty Dancing and Ghost

[00:14:38] Are both movies that you would not think would be Like basically the highest grosser of their year And they end up being that Right, and that's the other crazy thing about him Is not to be binary about it But he had like two massive female-focused movies

[00:14:52] And two massive male-focused movies And so he kind of set himself up He's straddling every... In this like Channing Tatum way Where it was like, you know Usually you kind of get one or the other Or even if like, oh, you're a sex symbol

[00:15:03] You're more of like a dude's dude action star Or romantically, you know? So it's interesting that you bring up like Channing Tatum comparison Because I don't care about most celebrities But Paowen Patrick Swayze died I was like gutted It was very hard for me He died young too

[00:15:17] Yeah And it was very fast And he was by all accounts like one of the good ones Like all the stories were always like He was the nicest guy in Hollywood Right Like one of the things that I love about him

[00:15:26] Is that he was like a very masculine guy Who also aggressively embraced his femininity And he was a dancer And he was super into that Absolutely And two long food thanks for everything Julie Neumar Exactly I think he was like very comfortable with all that stuff

[00:15:39] So when you say like I mean it was pitched I was like can you believe the Roadhouse dude Is doing this I think even more just him doing a comedy Like an out now comedy like that You know, and it's a different style of performance

[00:15:49] Than he usually does But that certainly has been an element Of his career success up until that point I just want to give you after This movie though Sure So 92 makes City of Joy with Roland Jaffe Which is like an Oscar play that's a huge bomb

[00:16:01] It's about like a white guy In like the Indian slums or something I feel like there's like a kid peeing on him In the trailer That sounds plausible Than he makes Father Hood Which is some kind of like family comedy Where he's like

[00:16:16] Like posters him in a leather jacket With his family But he's standing at like a You know, a line up Then he makes the Unbelievable adventure Adventures of Pico's Bill in 95 Which was retitled Tall Tale A movie I saw in theaters opening weekend It was a family movie

[00:16:31] I've never seen it He's not in it much right He's the lead But I thought it was like that they're trying to find him Or something No, he's a big part of it I was weirdly obsessed with the Pico's Bill Lower when I was a child

[00:16:42] I gotta say I am not I fucking loved Pico's Bill For whatever fucking reason Don't even know who he is That's a baby Nick Stahl Right, that movie is like Monster Squad And Nick Stahl needs to unite The Tall Tales Like the urban legend folk heroes

[00:16:56] And it's John Henry, Pico's Bill And Paul Bunyan And Oliver Platt is Paul Bunyan I forget who's John Henry And he's Pico's Bill Roger Aaron Brown is John Henry I think it's like William H. Macy's first movie too It's got a weird cast to it

[00:17:09] William H. Macy plays a railroad magnet And Catherine O'Hara plays Climby Jane Yes Anyway, I just want to keep going And then Tuong Fu is 95 That was a big flop That movie was a humongous flop Tuong Fu is 95 Three Wishes Which is like another family movie

[00:17:23] He made all these family movies Which is the Mark and Short That's a simple wish Right, what's Three Wishes? I don't know Some piece of shit movie he made Then that's 95 He doesn't make a movie for three years So he makes Black Dog in 98

[00:17:35] Which is like a shitty thriller I've never heard of any of these Did you do a Whoopie Goldberg comedy? That sounds right Right, I remember him and Whoopie On a video box together You're talking about ghosts? Well, he wasn't ghost I know he was a ghost

[00:17:49] But I feel like I remember some Maybe I just created him Ghost 2 Yeah, they could have done a ghost too I picture, I imagine some like Video box where it's the two of them In front of a white background With their arms around each other

[00:18:01] I just don't know what it is And if I Google Swayze and Whoopie Goldberg I'm just gonna get ghost I'll see if I can find that later It's just interesting to me Like yeah, I tell you a movie like Black Dog He made Point Break

[00:18:13] Like why didn't he ever have a huge hit again? Like ten years later is Donnie Darko Which is like when he's popping up And you're like oh shit, Swayze He's pretty good in that When he essentially becomes like A Travolta career revival Yeah, we're like oh yeah

[00:18:26] Except like he's playing He's good but he's playing such a villainous character And it's a small role but he is good And then like it kind of never goes anywhere But right before we started recording We were just talking about Channing Tatum

[00:18:38] And said like that guy needs a hit And five years ago or four years ago Whatever it was when he had his breakout summer It felt like this guy has cracked the code He's a movie star Like he had this year where he had like

[00:18:48] A couple action movies and a Nicholas Sparks film Or the Val wasn't technically We talked about it But like you know a Weepy romance drama He had Magic Mike, he had G.I. Joe He had 21 Jump Street It was like this guy established himself well

[00:19:02] With every possible audience in one summer And he's just like set Because he was not Afraid to embrace his feminine side And appeal directly to that audience And wasn't worried about alienating like the bros You know, it had something for everyone Like Channing was something for everyone

[00:19:19] And since then has done like a weird balance of work I mean he's dryin' but Channing Tatum is not a movie star Is my argument Like there's certainly not the kind of guy Who's gonna open a movie for you Right, but for like a pocket there

[00:19:30] It felt like he was the one short thing White House Down didn't happen Logan Lucky didn't happen These movies are not happening Even Magic Mike XO was a bomb Good leading man though Quasabum What disappointment in relation to The first one But Swayze should have kept going

[00:19:44] Like it should have just been straight heat Now Keanu Yeah What we gotta get on the record Keanu never been in action movie Right Yeah, was this his first one? This is his first action movie And Catherine Bigelow insists on him Yeah

[00:19:59] Cause I think they want a dep They want, I think they want a Johnny Depp That would make sense And she was like no, no, no Keanu Reeves And they were like the Bill and Ted guy Who was in parenthood Like that's your guy?

[00:20:12] Those are my two references for him Before prior to this movie Those are his two big movies I mean he had made a lot of movies Cause he has like little roles With a lot of movies But like, you know Bill and Ted is 89 Parenthood is 89 Yeah

[00:20:24] I love you to death is 90 When is Bill and Ted's bogus journey? 91, same year as this As is my own private Idaho To arguably best performances Which is the what is He's in River's Edge River's Edge is now in 86 Okay That's a good movie Yeah

[00:20:40] So that was like his like, you know Young angst drama Then he does the two big big comedies Where he establishes a persona That everyone can easily mock Yeah, but he's like the Right Like that's his thing Right And like cause we think of Keanu

[00:20:57] Obviously we think of that But we also think of point break And speed and the matrix And you know, he's like He's the action guy But this is the movie where Bigel is Like I can see Like this guy's perfect to play A quarterback A former quarterback

[00:21:09] Like Keanu's not small But he's not exactly He's not broad certainly No Like, I mean quarterback's supposed to be small It's brilliant casting But like saves the movie In a lot of ways I think so But I also think Keanu's career is so fascinating

[00:21:23] Because he's always had this pattern Of like he has something that hits Really big in the zeitgeist And then he makes a couple really big mistakes Everyone counts him out And he comes back And he's like, fuck it I'm not doing it anymore And then he right

[00:21:34] And then he finds the new thing Right Like he's had more second chances But every time it's like You earned this Yeah Right You reminded everyone What you're capable of doing well He's unkillable Right Cause I think Don't ever tell me Keanu's out Again, right?

[00:21:48] Like that's the less of you 47 Ronan everyone was like 100% done cooked over After 47 Ronan and You know, let's remember Like it was really like Daily Earth stood still 2, 40 Like that sort of like String of nothing for him People were like, alright I guess Keanu's He's just done

[00:22:03] He's down for now We're not going to talk about it And yeah man But that happened between Speed and Matrix Yeah For sure Yeah, Matrix was definitely about like He's back It's a rebirth That happened between Point Break and Speed Yeah

[00:22:17] I mean you have a couple disastrous performances there Like Dracula Which I'd say like almost Killed his career Well, his 91 is great Because he's in my own private Idaho Which he's so good in But yeah, the 92 is Dracula Which he's horrible and no offense Horrific, I mean, yeah

[00:22:30] We all love Keanu on this podcast That's one of the worst performances In any major film from a real actor 93 is much of do about nothing Which he's fine in I guess Sure He's sort of whatever But this is him punching A little outside of his zone

[00:22:41] Little Buddha freaked Well, he's not But I think the other thing that's interesting Is he always kind of like Sort of like taken seriously And then become a joke over time Right Where it's like, yeah You know, like the Matrix It was like really cool

[00:22:53] And then after a few years It's like, come on Sure Like that's a joke And then now he's back in John Wick And like that's really serious And who knows what jokes Will make about it Yeah John Wick Well, yeah, they might run John Wick into the ground

[00:23:07] But John Wick 2 is great Yeah John Wick 3 is coming out In the summer Do you see that? I saw that They're making a tent pole I feel like that's a perfect Like January movie But also, I saw like John Wick 1 Opening Day With an audience that was like

[00:23:23] Snickering but they were like Does this movie know what it's doing? Like that kind of like A really irritating condescending Kind of like laughter At a movie that's clearly heightened And knows, you know Yeah Like point break I mean, there are different types of movies

[00:23:36] But movies that know what they're doing I saw John Wick 2 Opening Day And when John Wick first appeared On screen, the entire audience Burst into applause Oh no, he's a legend That's funny because I've never seen that before It was like Indiana Jones returning He's the best Yeah

[00:23:49] Don't set him off Don't set him off No, but I saw That's funny because I saw John Wick With an audience that was clearly going in Being like It was like half full And we were like What is this? And by 30 minutes in They were all it

[00:24:03] The mitt where Michael Nikes says Like oh No, oh He just says oh Yes Where it's like John Wick was almost like Killed his, you know He killed John Wick's dog And stole his car And he just goes Oh and the audience just went Ahhhh

[00:24:17] Like it was great That was one of the best Theory experiences I've ever had Can I offer my My key thesis On why Keanu's Casting is perfect in this movie Yes, please Because it's outlined By the couple of movies He did right after this

[00:24:31] He was really trying to push his persona Keanu like started out As a stage actor Right in Canada Sure And wanted to be seen as a serious actor And then got this reputation For being this kind of like Airhead Yeah, pretty boy Right, pretty boy kind of thing

[00:24:44] And he really was like I want to do serious parts Let me do a Shakespeare You know, let me be in Dracula And he's too contemporary Right, he just doesn't fit Into these zones at all He can't do accents So he just always sounds like Keanu

[00:24:59] And I think that really throws people off And I think he has a very specific Energy that you have to harness Yeah, he's like Dane DeHun Right, he's a very contextual actor I'm just trying to get your goat there Go on I agree with you

[00:25:11] I think Dane DeHun is very much like Keanu I think the difference between Dane DeHun and Keanu Is that Valerian shows that Dane DeHun can't do Keanu action movie I disagree But we'll get to Valerian But I think Dane DeHun is like They're similar where you just

[00:25:27] You have to find the right context 100% Yeah, I've seen Dane DeHun be phenomenal In five movies and disastrous In five other movies Sure You know, and the ones where he's good I don't think it's an accident But I just think it's like

[00:25:38] You need to know where to place him Yeah, cause I love Keanu to death He's bad in some movies He's terrible in some movies He's misused But also when Keanu's good He's capable of doing things that no one else can do He's got a very specific screen power

[00:25:51] And he's this incredibly physical actor And it's not just like, you know He's always, I think we've said this before About him, but when people go like You do a lot of your own stunts He always goes like I don't do stunts Stuntmen do stunts

[00:26:04] I do physical acting He's very into the role And the power of the stuntman Which is why the one movie he directed Is like a martial arts movie Yeah, man But his whole thing is He's just really good at conveying a lot Through body language

[00:26:18] And sort of the ramp up The tension before the stunt start Which is what makes an action start Like how well you can like Get the audience primed for what A stuntman is then gonna do In the next shot on the back of your head Right? Yeah

[00:26:32] But this movie is like Right in that peak of him trying to be like I want to be seen as a serious adult In movies and be taken more seriously And that's totally what Johnny Utah's going through Like Johnny Utah's this broken guy Who's like Literally

[00:26:45] Loan off the rose, right? He should have gone pro Sure He didn't He poked up his knee Right, you get the sense that he was like He was all conference in Ohio State Well you know what this guy's life was He was the cutest boy in high school

[00:26:56] Sure He was high school quarterback Yeah He probably killed it He was the rare jock That was actually nice to everybody Right That's actually a question Yeah When he gives the speech to Tyler Where he's like I always did what my parents wanted me to do

[00:27:09] Yada yada yada And then they died Obviously they didn't die Right But how much of that do you think is supposed to be real? I think most I think most He was the golden boy Yeah And then instead of his parents died He blew out his knees

[00:27:21] Then he was like Oh, well what do I do with my life now? Right But I think that is a psychological makeup And I think He's had all this pressure his entire life And he's been told that he's great And all of that

[00:27:31] But really worked hard to achieve it And then his life is totally derailed The thing he thought, the path he was on And it's almost like those guys who like Rather than peak in high school And spend the rest of his life Bemoaning what he could have been

[00:27:43] Yeah He tries to find the thing he can do instead Well And I think he also tries to find a father figure Yes 100% Sure, that's a boat he is right Right Well and potentially Angela Like I think somebody was asking me If I thought this movie was homoerotic

[00:27:57] And I don't I don't either I think that's a mischaracterization I think it's bromantic Yeah And I think it's There's the one scene where they're wrestling Around with each other on the sand But yeah, no, it's not exactly It's only homoerotic in like

[00:28:11] You're already saying the female gaze Like it is an erotic movie about men It's an erotic movie about And it is mostly obviously about men Interacting with other men I also think the distinction I would make Is that I think it's a very intimate movie Yes

[00:28:25] And I think in movies where men are Intimate with each other People go like, oh it's homoerotic Because you're not used to seeing men Having anything more than like A back pat like Sure Good work out there buddy Kind of like relationship

[00:28:38] But it's really about like father-son relationships Yes But we don't understand intimate father-son relationships Right So it feels like Well this is the way Like why are men acting like this? Do they want to fuck each other? You're right I get what you guys are saying

[00:28:53] There's a lot of them looking at each other And being like I like you man Right, but there's also The crucial moment here In this movie Is that he jumps out of the plane to grab Bode Sure And then can't kill him Right, but I think Yes

[00:29:10] There's a dynamic between the two of them And it's a love story It is movie about two guys who love each other Just not in a purely sexual sense But it's also a very erotic movie Right I think I think it's an erotic film Yes

[00:29:22] So I feel like it's this conflation And you kind of touch on it That A, we're not used to seeing men being objectified Right And B, we're not used to seeing men being intimate Right So that this movie does both It's like, oh well it's gay

[00:29:34] And it's like no It's a woman who's objectifying men Right And also unveiling their intimacy That is not sexual Right And I think with a male director You either would have had That intimacy couched With some level of like Sure You know arms length humor or whatever

[00:29:52] Or they would push it even further And genuinely make it homoerotic Like that would be the gag Right You know? In a weird way I don't know I don't know I could see but I like what you guys are saying

[00:30:03] I just don't think a movie has to be Ridiculously homoerotic Like Top Gun or whatever I agree with that To, you know Have a sort of It's a romance I think there is a romantic dynamic Between Bodhi and Johnny Right Because Bodhi is seducing Johnny Into life Right

[00:30:19] But I like the father son angle Yeah, I mean the romance Is not necessarily eroticism Exactly That's the distinction is like I think Top Gun is sexual And this is romantic Yes What Top Gun is about ego Right And how man's ego is man's sex

[00:30:33] Like that's what that movie is about And how you put them all together It's confidence as a currency In a little ring Like they're all just going to start bumping around Right And like Top I mean Lori Petty Ben, I want to bring you in now

[00:30:43] Because I feel like you have some thoughts About Lori Petty Producer Ben? Ben Dooser? No, maybe not Hank Girls in this movie Poet Laureate? The Haas Yeah The Peeper Go on Tiebreaker? Yeah Birthday Benny Dirtback Benny Right The Fuckmaster Yeah The Meatlover, the Fart Detective Yes

[00:31:02] Not Professor Crispin No, don't call me that Graduate to Certain Tales of the Course Of Different Main Series Yep Producer Ben Kanovi Kyle Lovain Ben Tate Yeah Say Ben anything Ben Aichamwan Yep Ailey Benz with Dollar Sign That's true Warhawes Yeah Perdure Ben Wait Perdure Bane Yeah

[00:31:21] Lori Petty for a second Oh yeah She was like the 90's girl For her to early 90's girl Yeah For her to do point break And then Liga Daron Liga Daron In back to back years Should have been like She should have had a humongous career

[00:31:32] But she's such a specific type Right She's a good actress But you know She's got her thing I also She's got a great sort of I don't know Attitude Yeah punk Exactly I also don't think it's coincidental That her two big performances Both came from female directors Sure

[00:31:48] Yeah Because I think she's exactly The kind of actress that a male director Wouldn't necessarily hire For this movie Three good performances Yeah What's the deal Tank girl Which is also directed by a woman But was a big flop Sure But she's good in it Yeah

[00:32:04] But those three movies were like Her three big films She's also in free willy Oh my god Yeah She's pretty good Everyone's getting that right I mean it's not like a poorly acted film So I want to argue That I think that Lori Petty's character

[00:32:19] Is the moral center of this movie Oh yeah 100% Yeah Because I think Well because Go on I think there are reeds that you could make Of this movie And I'm sure there are dudes who watch this Movie and they're like Oh yeah this is amazing

[00:32:32] I want to be like Bodie I want this Or like Sure Who idolize a lot of the masculine Qualities But I think it's a movie Very nihilistic That is both celebrating And also condemning Masculinity And I think You know Johnny Utah is not The hero of the movie

[00:32:47] Johnny Utah is a dude Who is searching for a father figure Can't find it in the police force Can't find it in this surfing cult leader He consistently makes very poor decisions Throughout this movie Yeah Kind of ends at a standstill Where he's like

[00:33:00] Well I'm not going to like Align with the cops I'm not going to be a cop But I'm not going to I'm going to let Bodie kill himself I'm not going to save him But the only person who Yeah Like Lori Petty Tyler Like she

[00:33:12] Is very upset about being lied to And like Sure She is into surfing And you don't get any sense that she Is even aware of the bank robbing She just loves the purity Right Of being in nature And I think I mean it's telling to me that

[00:33:26] In the last scene He's like yeah I still surf every day Yes Like it's about surfing Being this powerful thing That gets perverted by Bodie It does Right And even though Bodie doesn't Bodie knows it's getting perverted He just won't admit it

[00:33:39] Like even near the end of the movie He's like I'm sorry I mean you know What's The fucking Lee Tergensen character Called Rosie He's a wild man Like I didn't mean to You know like He's still trying to like Cover his ass about it

[00:33:51] It's sort of like bad Buddhism Too a little Yeah Because the name Bodie Is based on Bodisabha Bodisabha Yeah Oh wait Oh Which is like a term in Buddhism For someone who's like Sort of on their way to being Enlightened like a Buddha Like on the path

[00:34:09] On the path Exactly Ties in nicely to another Keanu Performance as Sirarta And Little Buddha Yes Not a bad performance In a Okay movie But I think there's also something to There is No attempt And I think this is what's great About the casting of Lori Petty

[00:34:28] Who is like A very steely actress With a very odd energy Because she sounds like a rug rat You know She's got a funny voice Right Yeah she does She sounds like Chuck E. Finster Right and she's very She's very slight But she has

[00:34:42] This like anger to her That I think She's got three really good performances Tapped into And I think she's very high status In this movie Like she always She plays the football game Right And she's the intellectual superior Of everyone she's talking to in every scene Oh yeah

[00:34:58] I want to get back to what Lux was saying About Just for a second Because I do feel like This movie has one crucial action sequence In the middle right That is a badass action sequence Where tons of people get shot There's a lawnmower

[00:35:08] A naked girl beats the shadow Johnny Utah But like It is a pointless expression Of like police You know Coolness Because it just turns out It's like Now you fucking idiot It's like Seismore was here the whole time And it was just We just

[00:35:24] You just fucked it up And now we won't find out who's You know like Right And it's like an awesome sequence Perfectly directed That's so cool Like to watch And then at the end It's like Well that was completely worthless Like what a waste of all Unescalant energy

[00:35:37] And it's also interesting That that whole thing Is literally set off by Keanu getting punched on a surfboard Yes That is like He gets punched on a surfboard And then he's like This suit is bad It's got to be these good drivelas And Anthony Kitas I mean

[00:35:50] He's got a bad look in this movie You know He takes one look at Anthony Kitas And he's like This guy has to be LBJ Or whatever Right I mean He does it about He should be arrested for that haircut Oh boy That is an arrestable offense

[00:36:02] The Keanu thing here is that Like He is trying So hard to be a good cop Which uses the earnest energy He had in this time period Of like really wanting to be a better actor Or a more diverse actor Whatever it is

[00:36:17] And also the fact that he is There's something so gentle about Keanu Like even when he's yelling There's like the serenity to him You know which I think is what other people Like When he's miscast Reads his spaciness Sure Or a vacancy You know it's that

[00:36:34] He's very internalized Yeah So he's zen He's very zen Yeah So I just love that thing And then the other thing is He actually Like most undercover sting operation We have to infiltrate this world movies You're like They would never buy this guy

[00:36:53] They would sus him out as a cop immediately And Keanu shows up Keanu you get it And you're like Of course he fits into this And the Gary Busey counterpoint is Like when Gary Busey is at the beach Wearing the shirt with the sunglasses You're like

[00:37:04] Well this is why he could never crack the case Because he looks like a fucking narc He's Gary Busey Like you know when he's like I'm pinched on my radio It's like Busey is so good in this So good The thing that I love about the Busey character

[00:37:14] Is I think in a lesser movie It would be like Not even just Busey was right all the time But like Busey cracks the case And he's just been like Undersold And in this it's like No he sucks He sucks He's like He fucking blows the steak out

[00:37:28] Because of his Breeding Marmaduke And he's And he's fundamentally The wrong person for The case Do you know who plays the Who plays the remake Who plays that Ray Winstone I could see that Is he good? Well but he's just The problem is he's just too angry

[00:37:47] Like he's doing Surly Ray Winstone Part of what's great in this Is that like Gary Busey Like thinks he's the fun cop Like he thinks he's the star Of his own movie Yes You know he thinks this is his story Right Yes I agree Oh there's one

[00:38:01] I think Go no go ahead I'm just going back a little bit Sorry just to the steak out scene Because you mentioned The naked lady And I think That both the naked lady And the lady in lingerie are Like was there a studio note That was like

[00:38:14] Put some naked women in here I don't think so I think Bigelow wants a naked woman To beat the shit out of Keanu Reeves You don't think so She beats the shit out of him He doesn't land a punch on her She is naked

[00:38:25] She knocks him to the ground He gets back up She knocks him down again That's a good point There is no ambiguity To what happens to Johnny Uta In that scene Because I just got distracted I feel very strongly about this I got distracted by the shower spying

[00:38:37] But You do make a good point That there's like These women are taking him down Johnny Uta doesn't win a single fight In this movie He's really bad at fighting He's bad at it He's good at shooting His gun in the In the opening montage Yes

[00:38:51] And into the air Yeah But he fights The surfer guys And it's sort of You know the Sort of decoy surfer guys Yeah At first it looks like He's doing okay But then he's doing okay And he's like He's just doing okay And he's like I'm like

[00:39:06] You know You know Like he's like Like he's gonna beat the shit out of him So the peppers And then they beat the shit out of him In the stakeout He fights a naked woman Who kills Right I mean kicks his ass Yeah

[00:39:19] And then when he fights Bode He never wins that either Absolutely not This is not a movie Where like Johnny Uta Has like Got the skills To solve all of this Right And he fucks up At the bank robbery That's it's good that he's shitty. Yeah.

[00:39:32] Because he's not like a law and order movie. It's like, oh yeah, cops are fucked up. All these guys are assholes. He's also 25. Yeah, he's young, dumb and full of comies, blue fame especially. He takes the skin off chicken. He eats the donuts. Yeah. He's the donut.

[00:39:46] He takes the skin off the chicken, but he eats the donut. He does eat the donut. John C. I mean, John C. McGinley doesn't like that. That's the scrubs dude, right? Yeah. That guy is so good at being just like a dick.

[00:39:56] Yeah, like a pencil, like a living pencil with glasses. It's just like. There's that. I remember seeing some interview with John C. McGinley where he said when he got the script for scrubs to audition in parentheses, it said, imagine a John C. McGinley type. Sure. Yeah. Right.

[00:40:13] And he was like, did they offer this to me? And I was like, no, it's just like an open audition. And he had to go through like seven rounds of it and he kept on being like, guys, you wrote it? He should be. Yeah.

[00:40:24] I mean, obviously he had scrubs and I'm sure that set him for life. But like Del Rolando plays this part in the remake, which like once again, Ray Winston, Del Rolando, great actors, but minus that like comedic edge. Yeah. You know, you're talking about two great performances, Busey

[00:40:39] and McGinley, that are, you know, people are going to think about when you're playing the role. So it's hard to really, you know, beat them, especially if you're in a shit movie. But also, yeah, a self serious movie. Yeah.

[00:40:49] Um, so the plot of this movie is that there are bank robbers. Right. The ex presidents. Yeah. Who rob banks. So good. Who are good masks. The masks are great. Unbelievable. And just like the spiel, like, oh, just the scene where they're

[00:41:03] getting ready in the car, like all the detail on that, just like shot at the abs, pulling on the gloves. So good. And the fact that they stay in character to the fact that they each like have their like. Impressions that they do. Right. Except for Carter.

[00:41:15] He doesn't do much. Yeah. Good bit commitment. No, I agree. It's a great bit. Carter, there is that scene where they cut to Carter when everyone else is like loading the money into the bag and he's just farming peanuts. He's planting peanuts in the dirt outside the bank.

[00:41:26] Putting on a sweater. Giving a sermon. I just got a Google report. Ben just Googled bank robberies 2017. Just giving you a Google report right now. That's a new segment on the show. How many Reagan masks we're involved? I tell you what Ben is googling.

[00:41:39] I'm just interested to see if people are still robbing banks. Well, it does seem like a bad idea. Yeah, it seems like it's really hard now. Yeah. Because you go into a bank, you're like nobody has any money. Like, right?

[00:41:50] Like, I mean, I guess they have their little like little cash registers, but it's not like, like these days you want to get money out. They like seem to like shoot out of a slot like from somewhere far away. Yes. Yes.

[00:42:01] Which is one of the things I liked a lot about Logan Lucky is like, oh, this is a very smart place to rob. Yes. Yeah, totally. As long as you can make a gummy bear bomb. Do you like that? I haven't seen Logan Lucky, although thinking about

[00:42:15] the mask, I remember one of my favorite bits in Baby Driver is when they're supposed to get the Mike Myers mask and he shows up with Austin Powers mask. Yeah, that's a great bit in Baby Driver. That's my favorite gag. That's outrageous. That's your favorite gag. I'll never.

[00:42:28] Not the one that you predicted for not liking great gag in Baby Driver. But there are two things like one watching this movie, I was like, why don't people use masks in films more? Yeah. And so often I feel like when you have

[00:42:45] mask characters, people do the wrong thing, which is whether it's because they're directed that way or the actors have that instinct, which is to over physicalize everything to make up for the fact that your face is invisible. But this movie, the fact that he's just moving

[00:42:59] normally and he's stuck with this one static like grinning expression is unbelievable. I think it takes a really good actor to pull off a mask. Like I agree with that. Like one of my problems with Ant-Man is that I don't think Paul Rudd is a good voice actor.

[00:43:15] So every time he's in the Ant-Man suit, it feels like a poorly voiced video game to me. Paul Rudd is also a really good face actor. Right. You're losing a lot if you cut out his face. He loses charm.

[00:43:24] My only counter of that is I agree with you on Ant-Man. I do think he's better at it in Civil War. So maybe there's some sort of like progression that he's making or maybe they just had to fucking rush Ant-Man, which is more my guess. Yeah.

[00:43:37] They had to do that shit fast. Go to voice actor school. Yeah, right. Come on, Rudd. Just see here's a microphone. Here's it. Well, Skype you in. Just say your Ant-Man lines. Right. But I also think like it's weird when you think about

[00:43:48] like, you know, both times that Fox has tried to do Fantastic Four, there was this like reticence to putting Dr. Doom in the full mask for too much of the movie. Right, right. Because they were like, well, but then you can't see the guy's face.

[00:43:59] And it's like which is just fine. Then fucking cast on nobody then. Right. Because why are you casting a star you want to see? Like massive movie star Julian McMannan. Julian McMann. OK, I'm sorry. But I feel like a good actor with a well designed

[00:44:14] mask would be the scariest fucking thing in the world because every time they cut to a close up of Swayze in the Reagan mask grinning, it's like terrifying. Well that's really shot of his eyes. Right. Is unbelievable. You know, in the LA Basin scene. Yeah. No.

[00:44:27] I mean he's got really expressive eyes which talks a lot. Great eyes. And they, I think she also, she knows how to shoot it and he's a good enough actor to pull it off. Like his whole spiel. And he's a very physical actor.

[00:44:36] He's able to convey a lot with his body much like Keanu. And his voice. Yes. I also think the master stroke is cutting the slit in his mouth so that when he talks, the mouth moves a little. It has that weird muppet jaw thing.

[00:44:48] Oh I hadn't even noticed that but yeah, that is key. Because the other ones don't do that. He's the only one who has to talk extensively. Right, he helps. Everyone else is just, they have their jobs. Also I have a question about his gang.

[00:44:59] Are they actual actors or are all they just stuntmen? Because I feel like you see some of them like in the skydiving like you see their faces. Two of them are surfers. James Legro. James Legro is a great actor. And he's great in this movie.

[00:45:11] The other two are just surfers she liked. Okay, I have a feeling that they were probably either surfers or just stuntmen because I was like they don't actually act. Right. And I'm pretty sure you see them doing the physical things. Yeah. Yeah, they don't.

[00:45:24] They're just like the dudes who just hang out there. So yeah, John Philbin and I think the other ones like Bojesh Christopher, they're not actors. James Legro is great in this movie. He really has the California surfer dude that like on lock. And they Legro.

[00:45:39] And he's the one who dies on the plane. Yes, Legro is the one. Like he dies in the midair. That's why I like because he jumps out and then when you lie into it like that guy's dead. It's the dude who has the knife to like.

[00:45:53] That's Lee Terjinson. Was he the brother on Weird Science, the TV show? Great question. I think I've been in Bill Paxton. He's from Oz. I mean, I feel like that's his biggest. He's a beacher in Oz. But let's see, was he on Weird?

[00:46:09] While we're doing that, I will say. Ben nailed that. One other weird, very, very minor, the kid in the surfing shop when he goes to buy a surfboard. I had to look up because I was like, I know that guy, I know that guy.

[00:46:20] He is one of the brothers from Don't Tell Mom the Baby Sitter's Dead. Wow. We are plumbing the depths right now. I don't know. I love that movie. Sorry. No, no, no. Amazing 90s movie. I've never seen that movie.

[00:46:32] I always get Don't Tell Mom the Baby Sitter's Dead and Serial Mom confused. Serial Mom. Even though they're very different movies. Yeah, I mean, one is by John Waters and the other is a feminist movie. Is this seminal feminist movie of the 90s? Lee Terjisson. Lee N. 14.

[00:46:50] I love how he's just looking at bank robbery records right now. Lee Terjinson is also in Wayne's World and Wayne's World too. He's the guy who's like, I love you. You know, and like he can't stop saying who went to get him going.

[00:47:01] The guy who was vomiting in the back of the car during quicky-means and wraps. But I mostly think of him as Beecher and Oz where he's like a terrifying neo-Nazi. But you see like the opening sequence of this movie, right? Like this is only coming,

[00:47:13] she makes two movies in between the Loveless and this. And Loveless is like a very academic semiotics experiment. And by this she's fully figured out how to just like metastasize that into the body of a movie that is like just narratively exciting

[00:47:28] and enjoyable on a surface level as well. And the opening sequence is just like, I think cross-cutting between these like very serene like romantic shots of Bodhi surfing and Keanu in the rain shooting at these targets, right?

[00:47:44] Is like, these are these places of Zen for these two guys. Yeah. But where is like Bodhi is actually experiencing something transcendent. Keanu's just getting off on the fact that he's successful. He's good at it. Because at the end the guy gives him the big thumbs up.

[00:47:55] And it's like, okay, he still, you know, he didn't peak in high school. The quarterback found a new thing to be great at. You might say he's getting approval from a father figure. Right, right. So... Also I just love that it begins and ends in the rain. Yes.

[00:48:11] All good action movies Water. Are rain like dependent. Yes. Rain cut with wings. This movie was gonna be called Johnny Utah. I'm glad they didn't go with that. And it was gonna be called Riders on the Storm after the door song.

[00:48:28] And they decided that that was a bad idea because it's a door song and this movie has something to do with the doors. And so let's forget it. And so then they were like, what's a cool surfing term? They go through their cool...

[00:48:39] Much like in under siege to dark territory where they're like, what's like a cool train term? Like someone's like, there's a thing called dark territory. And they were like, great, great. That's the title. They were like, found this term point break. Yeah. And they were like, perfect.

[00:48:50] That sounds like the, like a great action movie. Even though it's about like a specific like rock outcropping or you know. Cameron was executive producer on this. Where was this? This movie comes out. Well, actually I don't want to spoil the box.

[00:49:01] Okay. Where was this within their relationship? I always forget what period of time... Well, I mean, I mean, Cameron's off making Terminator 2 when she's off making this. Oh, okay. And Cameron's falling in love with Linda Hamilton. So this is like the end. Yeah. I mean they divorced in 1991

[00:49:18] when this movie came out. Sure. But I think like pointedly she makes blue steel right before this. Sure. And blue steel is like a big flop. 89. Yeah, sure. Yes. Right. And this feels like Cameron going to Fox and being like,

[00:49:34] I'm telling you she's fucking capable of doing this. And her leaving it all on the dance floor because like she's got to have a hit. You know? It's so good. Right. But this feels like a movie where she's like full force

[00:49:45] like I'm gonna fucking make this thing work. Yes. I want audiences to love this movie. But this movie was not a huge hit. It was a decent hit. It was a solid like it was a double. And then it just sort of quickly I think

[00:49:57] grew and grew and grew. Right. But yeah, I mean she marries Cameron in 89 when blue steel's coming out and she divorces him in 91. So it was a, it was not a long relationship and they both made like their biggest movies to date during it.

[00:50:15] So I don't know how much time they were spending together. Sure. Cause if you think about like they're married from 89 to 91 they're probably both shooting in 90. Like, I don't know. Right. And the Gail Anherd marriage doesn't end that long before that, right? Yeah, James Cameron's love life is

[00:50:30] It's weird. Yeah. I mean cause yeah it's like Sharon Williams 78 to 84 Gail Anherd 85 to 89. Like we're talking about marriages here. He's a taxing. Bigelow 80, 99 to 91. Now Linda Hamilton is 97 to 99 but they were together. They were together for years and then they get married and divorce almost immediately.

[00:50:49] The marriage is the end of the relationship. Right. And then Susie Amos 2000. So it's like there's it's always like they always butt each other. But there was like then after Susie Amos that's it. Like she's the one who's like go diving. I know, I know, I it's fine.

[00:51:02] Surf into the middle of the wave. David Lynch is a guy who has one of those weird ones too. We're like, I think he was with his script supervisor. Well, he's He had a wife who made like a racer head with right? Mary Fisk is that right? Right.

[00:51:20] You know, right there. He had a 20 year relationship where they were never married and they had a child and then they finally got married and got divorced within like nine months for reconcilable differences where it just feels like sometimes if couples wait that long to get married,

[00:51:36] getting married, you're talking about Mary Sweeney. That's what he's like. He's editor. His editor. There we go. Okay. Who I believe I think still works with it. Maybe not. I believe so. Yeah, no, yes. But they were together for a very long time,

[00:51:48] had a child, didn't get married, got married and then suddenly got divorced. Right, right. Let's get back to Bigelow. Like stop talking about dudes fucking around. Sorry, sorry. Oh wait, so the thing that I was going to tell you, a bit of context that all left out.

[00:52:02] Excuse me, I'm a connoisseur of context. Please serve it up. And yet, no, so when I was prepping to be on this podcast, I was at a dinner party with some of my artist friends who are both graduates of the Whitney Independent Study Program.

[00:52:17] And I was just talking about Point Break, blah, blah, Catherine Bigelow. And they're like, and I always have this question, which I had posed to you at one point where when Catherine Bigelow won the Oscar, I remember somebody was like, is Catherine Bigelow an amazing female filmmaker

[00:52:31] or just a tough guy in drag? And just talking about like, oh yeah, she's the first female director to win an Oscar, but all her movies are dude movies, which is a question for me because it's like, is she strategically doing that because she knows she'll get attention

[00:52:46] or is she drawn to this and just getting rewarded? So I'm just posing this question to my friends and they're like, well, did you know she is also a Whitney ISP graduate? And they're like, and she was there in like the 80s, I think,

[00:52:58] but the curriculum is the same. And they're like, it's very Marxist, like already downtown New York, like my friend's final project for it, they, it was a performance art thing and they were like wearing a bikini and they were like the Whitney ISP

[00:53:15] being like bound and beaten by someone in a suit who was Mr. Whitney's or was about the artist being tortured by Capitol but also needing capital. So that's a Whitney ISP thing. And then for Catherine Bigelow to come out of that, I was like, this is...

[00:53:29] So I have a theory that ties into all of this. Right. Which is, The Loveless is very much a movie about masculinity. Yeah. Right? Near dark is kind of like even handed on the gender spectrum, right? No, that's very,

[00:53:46] I think that's very much a movie about masculinity as well. It's a cowboy movie. Sure, but sort of from a female perspective, even character wise, do you know what I'm saying? Yes, yes, yes. And then Blue Steel is like, I'm gonna make a female action movie.

[00:53:59] Like she clearly had this interest in action film making and tried to make Jamie Lee Curtis an action star, which seems like it should have worked. Yeah, why didn't that work? Right, and then it's a big flop. She, yeah. She's always been in weird box office

[00:54:14] to draw Jamie Lee Curtis. Like she endures, but there's only certain kinds of movies that she's opened, if that makes sense. I don't know, she's a funny one. But I'm saying in terms of her movie star persona, she feels like she should have worked as an action star.

[00:54:27] Right, she matches that kind of energy. Yeah. I think if Blue Steel had been successful, she would have done female lead action movies for the rest of her career. I think that's what she would have done. And I think when that movie bombed,

[00:54:38] it was like one of those write off things of like, well, there you go, women can't direct successful movies. There you go. People don't wanna see women in action films. So I think Point Break was very deliberately a reaction to like, fuck it.

[00:54:49] You wanna say, I can make a boy action movie. Yeah. And then I think the diet was cast. I think she knew this was her Hail Mary pass to get to still play at a high level within the studio. And then when this worked,

[00:55:01] it was like, oh, she's good at deconstructing masculinity, which had always been an interest of hers. And that becomes her thing. Cause she doesn't- Stay in that lane. Right, you know? Yeah, but after this she makes, well, for getting Strange Days, which is her fabulous masterpiece

[00:55:15] that we'll get to, you know, she did make the Boys in the Boat movie. Right. And then she made the Bomb Boys movie. Right. You know, and then- Hey, you know what K-19 could have used more of? Meatball subs. Hmm. But it takes- Less nuclear subs.

[00:55:28] It takes until after she wins an Oscar to make another female driven movie. And even that as we will talk about, she sort of stumbles into by accident. Like that movie wasn't intended as one. And then they went, Osama Bin Laden got merked. They decided to retool it

[00:55:42] around this female character. But there is that ghettoization of like, what has existed for decades is like, these are the types of movies that women can direct. Like the way the studios see it. And Catherine Bigelow I think always had ambitions beyond those obvious genres,

[00:55:56] which like most women unfortunately only get hired to make romantic comedies. And it's usually cause they wrote them. Right. You know, they're able to like attach themselves after selling the script. And I think she just didn't wanna be stuck with like, well, what do I do?

[00:56:09] I do a Kathleen Turner action movie next, you know? When the first one didn't work, I think that sort of like set her path as like a reactionary kind of like, I need to survive within this system. Yeah.

[00:56:20] Which I, I mean, again, like as someone who thinks a lot about women writers and women behind the scenes, it's like, it's always this question of like, well, do we want more women writers and directors because that gets us more women on screen?

[00:56:32] Or do we want it cause we just want women to work. And I want both. So she's like an interesting thing to me where it's like, yeah, she's a woman like getting paid, making movies, winning awards. And she's always telling men stories.

[00:56:44] But I think she does it in a twisted way. Yeah, she definitely twisted. But there's also, I think this thing that's like, it reminds me of the Paul Verhoeven's like blockbuster movies where it's like, he's able to comment on American culture better than any American

[00:57:03] because he's one step removed from it. And he knows how to play into it and make it like function on that proper level. But there's just a little bit of objectivity that like adds this whole different air to it.

[00:57:16] Right, and she is able to sort of make this commentary on like why masculinity is terrible. Sure, sure. But also trying to like present different types of men and different types of male relationships. Okay, so basic thrust at the movie after this opening sequence. Five hours in.

[00:57:39] We're just gonna start the plot. All right, so. We've been doing a lot of deep thinking now. There's bank robbers, there's Johnny Utah. Set in a stage. People really get the plot. Fresh out of the academy. He's an Ohio State quarterback. Quantico. Fresh out of Quantico.

[00:57:55] He's partnered up with Angelo Papas, played by Gary Busey. Going full Busey. And Papas has this long running case of bank robbers, the ex-presidents who they're in and out in 90 minutes, like 27 banks in three years. 90 seconds. 90 seconds, sorry. Geez. Never go to the vault.

[00:58:13] They never go to the vault. They just rip the cash drawers and they leave. And the only thing they do is they moon the camera. And leave sex wax behind. And because they moon the camera and have a tan line, they leave sex wax behind

[00:58:27] and then there's some sort of weird clay or dirt or whatever. It's a big sand. Sand residue. He's convinced their surfers, which everyone mocks him for. They treat it like it's a big foot sighting. Like you're a dumb fucking surfer. Yeah, right, right, right, right.

[00:58:40] But Keanu takes to it. And Busey doesn't like Keanu. He doesn't like the cut of this guy's jib. He hates that he's being gifted. The rookie kid is his partner. As he tells him while blindfolded at the pool. Yes, because I love that scene.

[00:58:54] I love that scene because Keanu, Johnny's just like totally, he gets it. He has no chip on his shoulder about it. And also he's a people pleaser. Like he's a people. Oh, when this guy over eventually. That's why I like it. He's like... He's not like Papa's surgeonious.

[00:59:08] He's like, surfer is cool. I'll be a surfer. You know, like fun. Just point me at it, baby. But that's why the eagerness of Keanu is so effective here. Yeah. Initially he's kind of like, fuck, there's this scene where he's in the suit walking around with the surfboard

[00:59:21] and he's like, what am I gonna do? Just like, be like sticking out on the beach and they're like, no, you have to go fucking surf. Yeah. So he does need to be won over initially. And then when he's first surfing,

[00:59:32] he's like bad and not really into it. Yeah, yeah, right. He doesn't ever get great at it either, which I love. It's not like... Lori Petty is the initial draw. It's just... Yeah. What's my in with her? Yeah. You know?

[00:59:44] So he pretty quickly gets mixed up with Bode and his gang because Bode recognizes him as a quarterback, which is insane. There's no way he'd recognize him. What is a blue flame? Does anybody know? It's your idea. Well, doesn't that... It just means new, right? Like, I mean...

[00:59:59] Oh really? Like, I don't know. They keep talking about like you're a blue flame or a blue flame special. Blue flame special, that's what they call them. I think it's just... But yeah, but Angelo says a blue flame or two. No, yeah, blue flaming. Let me see.

[01:00:12] You know what's crazy about like how point for point, fast and furious rips, point break off? Do they also refer to someone as a blue flame special? No, but the meeting of Jordana Brewster and Paul Walker is the same where she's behind the counter

[01:00:26] at the walk up sandwich place who he's trying to flirt with and she's like, I'm just doing my job. Like other than the Bodie and the, what's your name? Tyler. Yeah. Being ex-lovers rather than brother and sister, the dynamic is exactly the same

[01:00:43] and the introduction scene is exactly the same. Yeah it is. You know what? Movie I feel like is spiritually connected to point break if not plot connected and also has Vin Diesel in it, Boiler Room. Sure. I am Boiler Room also one of my top five. Interesting.

[01:00:59] I love Boiler Room. My boy Vin's good in that. That was my first Vin Diesel experience so I never understood why nobody thought he could act because he's so good in that. Definitely could. I always just thought of it as blue flame

[01:01:11] being the first part of the flame. I don't know. I don't know why I've never thought this through at all. I never noticed a Google's not. No, Google's just like that's the line from point break. Weird. So it's not like a surfing term?

[01:01:21] No, well it would be a cop term. A cop calls him then. Right, right, right. Yeah. And so I guess the first half of this two hour movie pretty on the nugget two hours and moves really fast I think

[01:01:33] is he's like becoming friends with Bodie in his group but he's definitely sure that these other surfers including Anthony Kitas are the ex-presidents because they're very aggro. He doesn't even consider the fact that it could be Bodie because he loves Bodie in his crew.

[01:01:47] And everyone watching the movie is like, it's Bodie. Right. Right. But it's not even that like Bodie's hiding it so well. It's just that he's so in love with them that he's just like, I want to live this life. I'm not going to question this at all.

[01:01:59] Well, I think he's conflating his love of surfing with his love of, I mean Bodie is basically a cult leader. Yes and Bodie represents what is appealing to him about surfing in that lifestyle. Yes. Bodie says later in the movie, it's not about the money,

[01:02:13] it's about us against the system, the system that kills the human spirit. We stand for something here to show those guys that are inching their way on the freeways and their metal coffins that the human spirit's still alive. David did that for memory?

[01:02:23] No, I totally read that off the, I just love metal coffins. Yeah. It's so fucking 90s. It's great. That's what's so great about the character too is he just like and Sweysie plays this so well. He's just this like gumbo of like, like he's like vague Buddhist shit

[01:02:40] and kind of fucked the system shit like Gen X nonsense. He's got sexy blonde hair. But the level of rationalization that he just fundamentally continues until the very end believing that he's the hero even when he's killed most of his friends in the process.

[01:02:52] And Bucie and he's taken a his ex-girlfriend hostage at knife point. Like, and he's still like, look at him making a statement. Right. Not to get political, but I would argue that there is, one of the things that frustrates me about our current political environment

[01:03:09] is that I think there are a lot of angry adrenaline fuel. You like the president though, right? No, I'm not even talking about the president. Angry adrenaline fuel. We do like Don, right? Oh, sorry. Yeah, rock him, man. Of course.

[01:03:21] No, there's a lot of angry adrenaline fueled young men on both sides who I think just wanna fuck shit up and are like, and here is my rationale. Like I'm gonna punch Nazis because like this is the thing or like I'm gonna like go fuck up these people

[01:03:33] because yada yada, whatever they all write. Bunch of Ricky T Joker's running out. Right, Ricky T Joker. But Ricky T Joker knows that he's a Nile list whereas Bodie doesn't. Is in denial. Bodie's like, no, no, I'm against the system and really he's just an adrenaline junkie

[01:03:48] who's doing all this shit but he's like, no, no, no, but like I'm doing it for a reason. Right, and he's a means to an end guy who doesn't actually have an end in sight. That's what I like about it. The only time he ever explains his philosophy

[01:03:59] is that monologue I just read and that is well after we know that he's like a total fuck, yeah. And his plan, his ultimate plan seems to be I'm gonna get all this money, we're gonna rip off all these banks and then I'm gonna go to Australia

[01:04:13] and totally die in this insane storm so I can ride the biggest wave there ever is. He does even ride the wave well. Well probably because Bigelow or whoever is like, well how the fuck do we shoot? Like look at this, this is insanity.

[01:04:26] We can't put a person in this, right? So they just had this very far away shot. That's not a person? It might be but like I mean they only get like what five seconds is it? You're saying it's a dummy? They just threw a dummy on the surfboard.

[01:04:39] I would love to know how they shot that scene. They shot it in Oregon. It's like a car lot thing. It's just like Bodie's plan, it makes no sense, never makes any sense. Apart from the 50 year storm, you gotta get to the 50 year storm.

[01:04:54] In the remake it's like a perfect storm, like CGI, like massive insane wave. I guess that's not surprising. Although I would argue that his original plan before he goes balls out, that was kind of makes sense. Which is just rip off the banks, move around. That's true.

[01:05:11] It's like a seasonal worker, it's just work is illegal. He's like an athlete, he's gonna leave it all. Here's my question. We've covered a lot of the plot actually, because in the middle of the movie there's the big raid and Seismore's there.

[01:05:25] Early Seismore, who's later gonna be in Strange Days and absolutely just eat the whole scenery. He's going big in this but he's really good. He's great. Seismore when he's good. But you need him because that is a fulcrum point of the movie where it's just like

[01:05:39] all of this was for nothing. Yeah, fuck, you're just an idiot trying to solve a problem that you don't even understand. Karen is just like, if I just get the guys, then yeah, that'll be great. You know? And go back to Serpent.

[01:05:54] He doesn't even know that he's kind of being suckered in by Bodhi sort of subconsciously for the first half of the movie. And there's a weird, and I think this gets to the self-awareness of the movie of what it's doing. There were a couple moments I noticed

[01:06:10] where a featured background person has a prominent reaction to what the movie stars and the movie are doing. There's when like Busey and Keanu are walking through the hallways of the police station with the surfboard for the first time. Oh, I love that scene.

[01:06:29] And there's a guy who walks past them and kind of bumps into them and like takes an extended look. They don't cut to a close up, it's a two shot. It's like a walk and talk but he's just like, what the fuck are these guys doing?

[01:06:38] Yeah, what is this dumb adventure they're on? Right, right. Why aren't they solving actual, like dealing with fucking real shit right now? And when he gets into the hand-to-hand fight with the lawn mower or whatever that piece of lawn equipment is. It's a lawn mower.

[01:06:50] You keep on seeing the next door neighbor in the background who's like, what's this fucking action movie going on in my backyard? I also love the lawn mower. That like when it's introduced, you're just like why the fuck is going on?

[01:07:02] And then it's like both the noise distortion so that he can't communicate and then also the weapon that almost kills him. Which is like, it's like everything in this movie is like set up pay off. You know, like his knee is like check off his gun,

[01:07:17] but also just the fact that like if she introduces a visual element with a weird specificity that might just look like a Tony Scott level, like show all the details, insert shot like flourish. It's like, no, this is gonna serve a function practically. Even the butt comes back.

[01:07:32] Even the butt comes back. What happens after? Is the skydiving scene right after that like the sort of initiation or when does that come? No, because the skydiving, okay. Because what happens he goes back, he goes surfing again and he gets mooned. He sees the butt.

[01:07:46] He sees the hairy butt. And he immediately figures it out, right? He's like, wait, there's four of them. And then he stakes them out. He stakes them out and realizing they're talking to Angela, he's like I stuck them out. Me bullsup. Not that yet. Oh, not that yet.

[01:07:59] You don't see the stake out. He follows them. And then he's like, hey, Angela, like I realized that they are like mapping out this bank and they're gonna hit this bank and then they're gonna leave. And then they do the botched stake out and the botched stake out,

[01:08:13] it's got the chase scene where a dog gets to just throw it at him. Oh God, the throwing the dog at him is so good. So good. Oh my God. And then that's when that's when... That's the firing the gun into the air.

[01:08:24] And that's when Bodhi figures out that he's... And then it's like, then there's the plane scene which is such a weird energy because we know that Bodhi knows who Johnny Utah is. And you know... You wonder if Bodhi is testing whether Johnny knows. That it's him.

[01:08:42] Right, cause I'm like, why is Johnny going along with this? Johnny has to know that Bodhi knows he's a cop. Right, but I think... I feel like Johnny is looking for a reason to excuse Bodhi. Like he's hoping there's some explanation that somehow resolves the entire thing

[01:09:00] and absolves Bodhi of guilt. Like he doesn't wanna have to dump Bodhi. Or he's like, maybe if I convinced my dad that I didn't see him cheating on my mom that like he'll stop doing it, but it escalates.

[01:09:13] And so yeah, there's the whole jumping out of the plane scene. But I love it's like a powder keg attention cause you're watching at the whole time. The scene's really fun. And if it was happening earlier in the movie,

[01:09:21] you just be like, this is a fun, burl out like something. And instead there's right... Right. Yeah, the parachute thing. And the shit with the parachutes which would have felt just like early goofing around. And instead you're like, what are they gonna try? Like in a skydiving accident.

[01:09:35] Right, but yeah, it's so much fun. I mean, God, I love... We can just go back to the meatball subs for a second. Those sandwiches look so good. It may be so hungry. Only you had one to eat on Mike. That's true, she got a meatball sub.

[01:09:51] I think Bigelow is really good and not over using close-ups. She makes her close-ups really count for when she wants to sell something totally on her face. Like the first shot of his eyes in the mask. But otherwise, she does a lot of two shots

[01:10:03] and a lot of like medium shots where you get, she has a lot of really physical actors in this cast and you need to see what they're doing with their body. Right? Yeah. Cause that's what I love about Mews,

[01:10:12] he's casting is he's got, he's built like a linebacker but he just seems kind of run down as a person. Like yeah, and it's sort of fun to watch him like shamble around. But the fact that you get to see like unbroken, him sitting there unwrapping the sandwich,

[01:10:25] taking some bites that it's not just all on his face with the sandwich coming out of frame, you know? But that moment is so masterful when Johnny just like, happy go lucky goes and orders the sandwiches and the lemonade and you see them pull up behind him.

[01:10:39] Like it's almost like a fucking looney tunes gag. Like it's almost like a Michigan J Frog bit where it's like, oh, of course the second he turns around. Of course the second Busey's eating the sandwich. But then so right, but no, the skydiving scene right after that

[01:10:52] is when they go to the bank right? Cause it's like the skydiving land, Bodie's like I have taken Tyler hostage and you have to go and do this thing. And then he's like special agent Utah. Mask off. Yeah. Also that like when they're leading up to the

[01:11:07] that bank robbery where Johnny's there was a line that I was hoping might be your line, although it's a Swayze line, which I would have just loved if you had said all I'm asking for is 90 seconds of your podcast. I thought about that. I really thought about that,

[01:11:20] which is all I ask of our listeners. Early technology that when they show the video, I don't even know what that is. I have no idea what the fuck that is. It's not a VHS. No, it must be some kind of earlier.

[01:11:33] Maybe I have no idea, but I loved it. It's a lot of old computers in this. Yeah, maybe 1991. Like the database where they look up Tyler. Yeah, love it. So good. Yeah. Where the database where it's like it first, the first page is her arrest record.

[01:11:47] And you're like, yeah, okay. I buy that they and then he's like, no, what else they got in the second page? She's like, yeah, mother and father died. I'm like, it wouldn't have that. Like this isn't eight is a DOS database. We don't just put in like,

[01:11:59] oh, you know, some personal info, you know, some color. The thing I love about this movie, and I think it speaks to the screenplay because this had to have inherently been part of the script is that a shittier movie, I think would end with that foot chase. Sure.

[01:12:16] And Johnny shooting in the air and letting Bodigo. I guess so. I think you would have had a little more meat before that, but that would have been the ending is he's heartbroken by the guy he was so close to

[01:12:26] and he lets him get away rather than letting Bodie become terrifying. Right. And that's the midpoint. Right. I remember. Yeah, yeah. Because like the remake lets Bodie stay noble the entire time and you're like, fuck. No, the minute Bodie kidnaps Tyler, right? He's hard because like, yeah,

[01:12:41] bank robbery is a fairly victimless crime. Like it's easy for people to root for bank robbers. Right? Sure. There's a zillion movies about bank robbers. Right. Often the bank robber is not. But usually. And it feels kind of cultural, which is Bodie's whole philosophy.

[01:12:54] But then usually of course in any bank robbery movie, shit goes bad. Right. So here's my question. Uh-huh. In the bank robbery scene where he's got Johnny there unmasked to sort of implicate him, why does Bodie want to rip off the vault all of a sudden?

[01:13:08] Like why does he make that decision? I think because he's an adrenaline. I mean, I think he's self-destructive. He's just sort of losing it. He's like going full tilt like or whatever. And he's just kind of like, because there's no like obvious plot reason for it.

[01:13:21] Well, because he also, he says in the lead up, because they're all just like, we should fucking bail this dude's an FBI agent. And then he gives a whole speech where he's like, I think that's when he gives the like, it was never about the money thing.

[01:13:32] He's like, this is the ultimate thrill. Yeah. And I think that's when it's starting. He's becoming unhinged clearly. But it's also pointing out, it's like he wasn't robbing banks to surf because it was just convenient thing. Sure. He wants to. He really gets off.

[01:13:47] It's same with the skydiving obviously. It's like chasing the dragon. Yeah. It's like trying to get that, that better high. And I think this is probably the last time they're going to rob a bank. Right. So he just wants to go all out

[01:13:58] and just like get the highest he can off. See, that's the additional layer that I would put onto it. And I think it's this isn't me objecting, by the way. I was right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I agree with everything you said.

[01:14:10] The other element I think that's at play is we're talking about the fact that Bodie has no real long term plan other than this idea of like travel around the world, live off the land. But he's kind of one of those people keeps on saying,

[01:14:19] like, yeah, I'm just going to retire and move to the woods. And you're like, you'll never fucking do it. And say you'll do that, you'll never do it. Right. All Bodie wants to do is just continue surfing with his bros and robbing banks,

[01:14:29] getting a reasonable amount of money where they can keep it safe, right? Right. But at this point, I think he knows no matter what, as Ben said, this is probably his last bankrupt. Right? He's got Johnny Utah here. So if he's going to make a life for himself,

[01:14:41] he needs to like go all in, get all the money because he's going to be running for the rest of his life. Yeah, and Johnny even says that. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. Right. He's like, you've killed an FBI agent.

[01:14:49] Like people have figured out who you are. Right. When they get on the plane, he's like, oh, I love that line. He's like, there's this new thing called radar. Maybe you've heard of it. Great technology. But it's like he needs to build a bigger parachute

[01:15:03] for himself now because this is like the end of the line. Yeah. Of course, that's the thrill. They spend too much time in the bank and the hero cop decides he's going to shoot at them. It all goes wrong. We don't do this often.

[01:15:16] Occasionally we'll play the game of like, which role would I play in this movie? You're the guy who's like, don't do anything. 100%. Don't do anything. 100% an idiot. Who are you, crazy? And he's the security guard. He's like, come on. Get them. Dude, don't do anything. They're in charge.

[01:15:29] Just let them take the money. Yeah, that's what we care. Who gives their shit? Yeah. Hero cop fucks everything up. So now they're in trouble and one of them is dead. Two of them are dead. Do two of them die at the scene? One of them's dead.

[01:15:41] One of them severely injured. And the cop is dead. I think, right? Yeah. Two of them are dead because it's just, by the time they get on the plane, it's just Bodie and James LeGro. Oh, you're right. Yeah. Now two of them die.

[01:15:49] I can't remember the exact sequence. No, no, no, I think one of them dies with Busey. Or does Busey issue James LeGro? That's how James LeGro gets shot. Yeah, because right. No, it's just one dies at the bank robbery. Right.

[01:16:01] And then Bodie knocks out Johnny Utah at the scene, runs away. And that's when, and then Busey springs Johnny. You know, it just brings him down. And they go to the plane, to the airfield. And then that's where Busey dies, which is like,

[01:16:15] you know, already, you know, Swayze's kidnapped Tyler. Now he's responsible for the death of a character. Like, right? Like, you know, this is a monstrous thing. Yeah. Right? And I like how Bigelow's like doesn't just then flip in his

[01:16:28] like, yeah, well Bodie's an asshole and he needs to die. She's still kind of with him, you know? Yeah. Because he's been the same throughout, I think is what he's saying. Well, you know, someone asked you on Twitter. I know you were saying this is an Ilystic movie.

[01:16:39] Yeah. But someone asked you on Twitter, David, after watching The Loveless going like, so was Bigelow an Ilyst? And your response was no, I think she's a realist, which is even more depressing. Right. And I think that's true.

[01:16:52] Like, I think a lot of her movies are about like how people kind of are inherently drawn to doing the wrong thing. Yeah. Or sort of fundamentally fucked. Yeah. You know? I mean, I think that's, yeah, I think that's true of, obviously this is not a realistic movie.

[01:17:04] At all. It's very hyped. In terms of how the right things happen. But I do think she's realistic about her character's motivations, like you're saying. And I think it's the true of like the Hurt Locker. I think it's true of all of them. Emotionally honest. Yes. Right.

[01:17:17] And this last act of the movie is like Johnny Utah kind of being caught in like a psychologically abusive relationship with Bodie. Yeah, literally. Right. Because he wants to keep on giving him another chance. Weirdly. Like he, number one priority, get Tyler's safety. Right?

[01:17:30] But number two is like, he doesn't want to bring the hammer down on Bodie because he wants to believe this guy's better. And in the process, causes a lot more damage. Well, and I think it's again because he's confused the purity and joy of surfing with Bodie.

[01:17:45] And he's like, no, no, you taught me this. You must be. Right. You must be the enlightened person. On a surface level, it looks like Bodie is living the life that he wants to live where it's just he's only doing things for himself.

[01:17:55] He doesn't need to prove things to people. He finds peace in the solitary personal activity. He's into free love. Right. Right. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. But then the plane seems great. Yeah, where he goes like I'm really cold and Keanu's like the blood is leaving your body.

[01:18:14] That's why you're cold. The skydiving photography in that movie is fucking unbelievable. I don't know how she did. I don't either. It's it's insane. How do you do that stuff? It's insane. I mean, I really like I already said, but I really

[01:18:24] do think that shot of Keanu leaping out of the plane to grab him. How did he fall? The best shot. Well, if you make your body a tube, you can fall much faster, but you have no control over. Right. That's not like this.

[01:18:38] No, no, no, that's how you go faster and slower. My exact thought. There's no way they would fall for 90 seconds though they'd be dead. Yes. I looked that up. Yeah. They'd be dead. It's like 30 seconds max. You're falling. The first skydiving sequence goes on for so long. Yeah.

[01:18:51] Right. It doesn't work that way. But also they wouldn't it would be very hard for them to talk to each other. Obviously. Sure. You know, right. And really have to basically just like go into someone's ear and be like, Boney, you betrayed me. Or you know, like.

[01:19:02] They like talk to each other. They hold hands. They break apart. They each listen to an episode in WTF. They just guess who. Like they do a lot of stuff up in there. Who are your skies? Sorry. Um, but uh.

[01:19:15] Well, and then they have like their second like parachute pole chicken. I think it's that's so good. So good. Where Bodie is not like he's like you got to kill me or pull the shoot. Like he explains it all. But I don't know.

[01:19:27] Which is it's set up so well by the first one where it's like the game of chicken is like a Keanu's half questioning whether or not they gave him a dummy pack. But yeah, also it's like he wants them to be a unit.

[01:19:38] He wants them to be like operating in tandem. Yeah. But two thoughts I had were one, this movie is so sexy just on like a filmmaking level and how like I watch and all these things I've like always hated. This movie sells me on where I'm like,

[01:19:54] fuck, I want to live in California. The way this films California when you see the scene and you're like God, I want to eat that sandwich. I would never skydive in my entire life. And when I watch the sequence, I'm like,

[01:20:04] fuck, I want to do that right now. I know it's really cool because she's getting the shots of the land, which is like it looks like an alien planet from that. And also if it lasted that long, I would probably do it.

[01:20:15] It even makes bleeding to death look cool. It makes it look awesome. That is skydiving school. You done it Ben? I've done it a couple of times. Of course you have. It's amazing. Not surprising. You have to go tandem so you have to go with somebody. Right.

[01:20:27] You're not legally allowed. So they're taking care of all the like, shoot all that stuff. But there is nothing. So you're just literally having the experience of falling slowly, majestically. With style. Yeah. I remember the guy the second time around

[01:20:40] because I had told him I had gone before. He's like, you're like spinning man? While I'm hanging out of the plane, I'm like, yeah. And he went for it. And it was. You mean so you're going like we were like corkscrewing in the air.

[01:20:51] We were like corkscrewing flying around. No thank you. Then finally leveled us out. But like vertically like almost doing like spinning like 360 around. That's someone's job. Like every day he's like, what am I going to do today? I'm going to jump out of a plane again.

[01:21:04] I'm the spinning guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um that no where you guys say some. Oh, it just also fallen through clouds is really insane. How does it feel? Well, you can't. I mean, yeah. Is it wet? Yeah, that was my assumption. It's kind of wet.

[01:21:20] You're a wet guy. It's kind of wet. It's like when it's like a little damp outside like post rain. Is that what it's like? Yeah. Sort of. Yeah. I mean, it is like just falling through fog. Right. Sure. Pretty much. The moment when Keanu jumps out packless

[01:21:32] with the gun, gun first. God. The thought I had to myself was, well, this is why movies exist. Yeah, I agree. Like I was like, this is why we go to the movie. And I think that's what Bigelow thinks too. Yeah. That's what she sees in this movie.

[01:21:44] And not just because it's a cool image, but the way the entire story is built up, that image, the way the image is captured, you know, like everything about it is just like, this is what is capable like with cinema.

[01:21:55] This is what you can do in long form narrative storytelling on a big screen. Yeah. Even if you're watching it on your fucking laptop, like I did, it's just like, oh God. Such a pretty boy. He's, it's great. So there's this emotional confrontation in the sky. Yeah.

[01:22:11] This movie's about the sky. It's not a lo-ha, but it's about the sky. And he again doesn't kill Bode, you know. He's had two clean shots on him in this movie and he, you know, he doesn't do it. Right.

[01:22:22] But Bode has kind of put him in an impossible situation. Yes. No, for sure. He needs to protect Tyler or you know, so on. Right. And then Bode runs away. James Legro does not make it. He dies midway through. Sure.

[01:22:34] He does pull a shoot, but then he doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. But so Bode escapes with the money and then we just cut to nine months later at the beach for the 50 year storm. Mm-hmm. And Johnny's found him there, knowing he wants to do it, I guess, right? Right.

[01:22:48] Yeah. And he like, he snaps the handcuff to him. And Bode's just like, come on, man. I just want to fucking surf. Like, let me do this last thing. Just want to die. I'm not going to go anywhere. Like, cliff's on either side, you know.

[01:23:00] I can't be in a cage, man. What am I going to do there? So Johnny's like, OK. Yeah. And he goes and he fucking wastes himself out there. It's great. There's a good detail I love when they release Tyler

[01:23:12] that she runs to him and they embrace, but they don't kiss. Yeah. Because I feel like you have a- She hates him, right? Yes. Because she feels betrayed by him when she finds out he's a FBI agent. And like, by-

[01:23:23] You know, she yells at him about lying about his- He manipulated her. Like, really, really hard. Although doesn't- I think it's that scene because there's the scene earlier where he wants to tell her that he's a cop and she thinks he's trying to say he loves her. Yeah.

[01:23:38] And I think when she comes out of that, I think they repeat that moment where she's basically about to say, I love you. Right. And he's like, we can talk about it later. So I don't think she hates him. Well, she definitely hates him in that moment earlier.

[01:23:50] Right, absolutely. But yes, maybe she's right. But I think at that moment she's also just dealing with like the trauma of what she's just been through and it would be so easy to do the like fucking man of steel, Jurassic World,

[01:24:00] like we kiss while the world is burning around us. But it's like in that moment you wouldn't- Like it doesn't matter whether you love the guy or hate the guy. It's not really romantic moments. She runs him just because she's like,

[01:24:08] I need to get away from that guy with a fucking knife. Yeah, she's been through. Like, wow. And she just like kind of collapses. And I would argue that this is probably the first time she has realized how fucking evil Bodhi is. Yes.

[01:24:19] And so now it's like, oh wait, you were staking up Bodhi. You lied to me and that's fucked up. Sure, yeah, she- Right, you're right. Yeah, she has new perspective on Bodhi. And she's always been giving Johnny the like straight talk on Bodhi

[01:24:31] where it's like, Bodhi's a kind of full of shit. Like, you know, there is this thing where I think she's always high status. Like, you know, until intellectually at least. Obviously at some point she's low status physically. But like intellectually she's always like,

[01:24:43] I get this more than everyone else. Gee, boys are gonna do your fucking boy thing. Yeah. Like run around and put guns at each other and whatever, you know? But I like, I know it's driving all of this. Yeah.

[01:24:52] You're all just like scared of your own mortality and yeah. Yeah. This movie I think is like the spoof cop action movie, right? Like Hot Fuzz is spoofing this movie more than any other movie. Right. Like down to like the gun in the air,

[01:25:07] the throwing the badge away, all that's all this sort of semiotics. Hot Fuzz another movie that I love. I realized while watching this in Hot Fuzz that I think like it's in the final action scene when they're getting ready.

[01:25:18] They say Little Han says it's time to rock and roll. Right. Which is what the ex-president say. And I was like, interesting that you have the cops mimicking the bad guys. Sure. Time to rock and roll. Yeah. I am not a crook. All right. So originally.

[01:25:32] It's I mean five comedy points for that because he is literally stealing mine. That's the joke. Five comedy points. Yeah. Potomous comedy points. Yes. Patrick Swayze. So some little just some little trivia pieces. Ridley Scott was going to make this movie. That was the original concept. That's weird.

[01:25:49] With thinking of Broderick, Matthew Broderick or Johnny Depp as Utah and Val Kilmer, Charlie Sheen as Bodie. Wait, Charlie, Charlie Sheen wouldn't have been old enough, I feel like. I don't know what to tell you. That's weird. He was hot shit. I mean platoon. Oh, no.

[01:26:06] But then it just sort of, I guess, got passes on it or something. You know, it doesn't come out. It falls apart and Cameron, who is an executive producer, recommends Catherine Bigelow, who had was just being finished. Just wrapping up Point Blue Steel. OK.

[01:26:18] So I assume she gets she nails this job down before Blue Steel even comes out. OK. Because they're pretty close together. Maybe not. I'm not sure. Yeah. So that happens. And then the movie comes out and we should talk about that box. In the box of this game.

[01:26:34] OK. Right? Yes. July 12th, nineteen hundred and ninety one. OK, middle of the summer. This movie opens. What number do you think this movie opens? It's a wild weekend. Three. Wrong. Higher or lower? Lower. Five. Higher. Four. Fourth. Four and a half. Fourth.

[01:26:55] Eight million, eight and a half million dollars. OK. And what does it end up at? Forty three, which adjusted is at ninety one. You know, it was like a solid hit. It's an R rated action movie.

[01:27:06] And then coming out in the high of some video cable TV movie. That's some essence legacy for sure. It is the number three surfing movie. Behind and box of a smooch. Number three surfing movie. The top two are very surprising to me.

[01:27:22] One of them is surfs up the animated one. One, the animated film about surfing penguins. OK, is the number two like strictly surfing where it does just contain like surfing stuff? Like would you say it's about the world of surfing?

[01:27:34] It is, but it's also about like personal healing and redemption. I think it's sort of like an inspirational true story movie. It's not Blue Crush. No, that is number four. Soul Surfer. That's a great movie, Soul Surfer. Weird. Who even remembers that movie?

[01:27:49] I do because that was one of two. Anna Sophia. Helen Hunt surfing. Right. Along with chasing Mavericks. No, that's the Gerard Butler movie. Yes. Do you know that that Lori Petty directed a movie 10 years ago an autobiographical film? She has a crazy, crazy life story. I did not.

[01:28:06] Where she was one of three children raised by a single mother who was a prostitute. And she wrote and directed an autobiographical film about her childhood with Jennifer Lawrence and one of her first movie roles playing the Lori Petty character. What's it called?

[01:28:19] And Anna, not Anna Sophia, Rob, Chloe Grace Moritz. The poker house? Yes. Yeah. Co-written by David Allen Greer. What? How weird is that? What a wild movie. Jennifer Lawrence. Jennifer Lawrence played Lori Petty in a film. I did not know about any of that. All that's true.

[01:28:36] All that's true. Apparently, David Allen Greer is one of her best friends and she told David Allen Greer about her life story and he was like, I want to write this with you. Does he write a lot of movies? I don't think so.

[01:28:46] I know people who are friends with David Allen Greer. So it doesn't surprise me that he's Lori Petty's friend. He seems like a nice guy. It just, I never knew him to write at all. He's so good in the Carmichael show. He's a really fucking good actor.

[01:28:58] He is. You know what he was great on? The Wiz Live. Oh, yeah. He fucking killed it on the Wiz Live. Amazing. Which I was underwhelmed by. Sure. Right. Yeah. It was fine. I liked it. I enjoyed it. I mean, it was all just like cool.

[01:29:13] We're finally going to have a musical that's not all white people. So that already just made me like, I also saw it under the perfect conditions. I saw it in a townhouse in Harlem with all black people. So I just feel like I like my ways really sad.

[01:29:28] Yeah. I think the Loomettes really a sad movie. I think some productions are sad and I felt like the Wiz Live was a little too glitzy. Oh yeah, about box office. So point break opens number four. Okay.

[01:29:40] Number one is the movie that came out the week before that is still number one at the box office. It has grossed $90 million in two weeks. Makes $20 million this weekend. What does it end up? 1991. I know. What does it end up at? It ends up at 204 domestic.

[01:29:59] It is one of the biggest hits in history. It's also the most expensive film ever made to that point in time. True lies? No, 1991 my friend. Right. 1994. Oh, Terminator 2. Terminator 2. Her husband's movie came out a week before her movie.

[01:30:16] I have no idea why they're totally they're different studios. Wow. Because point break is a Fox movie. Terminator 2 is tri-star I think. I mean Terminator 2 is a tri-star. I mean Terminator 2's rights issues are so bizarre. But she got her revenge. Yeah, well, yes, that's true.

[01:30:30] She kicked his ass in 2009. But so Terminator 2 is just, I mean, is redefining action movies up at the top of the list. Right. Redefining success. Yeah. And point break, which is another like generational action movie comes out the week after. That's crazy. That is insane. That's wild.

[01:30:50] Wild shit. Wild. Number two at the box office is new this weekend and is a reissue of an animated classic. I have no idea how you're going to guess which one. Wow. It opened to $10 million. This is back when Disney would reissue, yeah. Little Merman? No.

[01:31:04] Oh, no, no. Because Little Merman comes out shortly before that. Little Merman's like two years old. Pinocchio? No. I haven't. Little later. Okay. I see, I think I might be able to pinpoint this because I would go to those re-releases. Is it The Jungle Book?

[01:31:15] No, which I went to. I remember that one. You're a little too young at this point though. 91? I mean, you're like a baby, right? I think this might have been my first movie I saw in a theater. You were two.

[01:31:26] That's why I think it might have been the first one I saw. My parents would take me to movies early on. I go, they'll hit me with it. So it wasn't Pinocchio, it wasn't John. I'm trying to reverse engineer because those,

[01:31:35] they stopped doing the re-releases maybe when I was like five. But I definitely saw the first three. This movie first came out in 1961. So this is the 30 year anniversary of this movie. I feel like I know what it is. Not Sleeping Beauty, is it? No.

[01:31:46] This movie made $144 million when you take all its re-releases into account. It's a huge hit. It's not 101 Dalmatians? Yes, that's it. Oh, OK. 101 Dalmatians. I was wrong. Bingo. No, it's Pongo. Pongo, whatever. Fuck, I fucked it up. Pongo and what's the other one? Perdisha? Perdita? Perdita? Pongone Perdita?

[01:32:07] Yeah. Not my favorite Disney. But some kids love it because they love dogs. Yeah, I always thought it was fine. I just love Corella Deville. Corella freaked me the fuck out. I couldn't deal with her. She really scared me at the end when her eyes go crazy.

[01:32:20] Didn't did not like that. I like the human couple. I think I just like that they're kind of like a weird like East Village like songwriter, you know, kind of yeah. OK, three at the box office is another generation defining movie of the early 90s,

[01:32:36] also opening this weekend to $10 million. What do you call it? I guess it's like a gritty crime drama, I guess. But it's like really, really, really, really crucial movie to in like it's like a fucking bedrock movie for a whole like genre of 90s movie that feel like.

[01:32:58] Interesting when you say gritty crime. And it's like an Oscar hit like this movie makes a lot of money gets nominated for some Oscars. Sounds to the lambs. No, that came out in January. OK. When you say crime is more focused on the criminals or the law enforcement?

[01:33:15] I guess it's about life on the street. It's hard to side. No, it's it's hard to talk about this movie without totally giving it away. Yes, I was going to say I love this. But you know, Boys in the Hood, John Singleton,

[01:33:27] still the youngest ever director, I think 26. He was 26 when he got nominated. I think he might have even been younger. Oh, I think I think 24. Jesus Christ. I got freaked out when Johnny Utah said he was 25 in this movie. Oh, yeah, me too. I mean, look, we're all.

[01:33:41] 35 tomorrow, so. I'm turning 47. He was 24 years old. That's insane. The first African American and the youngest director ever nominated for a best director. Crazy, crazy, crazy. I don't think he'll ever be beaten. You know, Rosewood is kind of a blank check.

[01:33:59] You know, it was a more expensive movie. You know, he definitely. I mean, Rosewood wasn't like a huge budget movie, but still. I got a lot of money to make this very specific period movie. But also when you're the youngest. No, I know it's the biggest director.

[01:34:12] I think he thought he was going to be like a major American force. Yeah, so it's just like looking at this top five. You got three movies that are really like huge early 90s. Yeah, that's very definitive early 90s. A lot of dies are being cast this weekend.

[01:34:29] Yeah, number four is point break. Number five is I think we talked about this one before. It's a comedy sequel. I can't remember which one another stake out. No, look who's talking to. No, no. It's a comedy sequel. When did the first one come out?

[01:34:48] Was this like a rush sequel or is this a delayed sequel? That's a good question. It's the first one came out in 88. This one comes out in 91. The last one comes out in 94. There's three of them. Three of them big, broad comedies.

[01:35:01] Oh, oh, oh, oh, it's the naked gun two and a half the smell of fear. Best one. Maybe the highest grossing. Yeah, I'll say this. I had always argued that it was the best of the three. Yeah, I rewatched one and two recently

[01:35:13] and one has moved up now on my list. Once great. They do kind of blur together to me. Which is what we've discussed. Two got some great gags. One just something. Some of the other movies. We've got Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves,

[01:35:23] which is hanging out just a huge in five weeks. It's made 109. Massive. That's another butt movie. Yeah, a lot of button. That's true, but not his butt. Not his butt, but double. He did not want to get in the water. I think I love about point break

[01:35:37] is that clearly isn't a butt double because it's just kind of like a mediocre butt with a hairy ass. It's true. It's not a great butt. It's not like a manicured butt. Very true. Number seven is Regarding Henry, which we I'm sure get really deep into later

[01:35:52] when we do our Mike Nichols. I don't know. We talked about it in K-19 though. Yeah, we do. City Slickers. Oh. Big hit of that year is. Generation Defined. Yeah. I remember when that was a thing. That was a big thing. Problem Child 2.

[01:36:05] And a movie I'm sure Griffin loves a lot. The Rocketeer at number 10. You know, I like that movie a lot. I don't love it. It's weird. I always feel like I should adore it. I kind of I'm with you. I like that movie, but it's never been a

[01:36:16] I remember seeing it in the theater, but I all I remember is that he was a Rocketeer. I don't remember any of the plot except that maybe there were Nazis. Yeah. Yes, there are Nazis in it. Timothy Dalton is really good. Also, by the way, I realized

[01:36:32] I should tell you how I discovered point break. Oh please do. And then I'm going to turn the tables. I got surprised. Please tell us how you know. Point break. So summer of 1996, I went to Oh, so you didn't see it in theaters? No, I was eight.

[01:36:46] OK. Yeah. I was two young. Yeah. So summer of 1996, slight context for this is that my parents lived in Israel. I have an Israeli uncle. Like my family has ties to Israel. Summer of 1996, my aunt and uncle and take me and my cousins to Israel

[01:37:03] for three weeks and dump us with my cousin's babysitter. So we're in just some like Israeli suburb for three weeks, kind of going to water parks, going to this, blah, blah, blah. I just basically hanging out a lot. And this is the perfect way to discover a movie.

[01:37:16] This is in Israel with a baby. Going through their V. I'm 13 and going through their VHS collection and like I must have watched other movies. But point break was one of them. And I just remembered like watching point break with Hebrew subtitles a bunch

[01:37:30] and being like, I love this movie. I really love this movie. I've talked about how there was like a summer I spent with my family in the south of France, where there was a video store that only had like four movies with English subtitles

[01:37:44] and a lot of movies I watched for the first time dubbed in French. I think I mentioned that before in the podcast, but like Wayne's World, I saw it in French five times before I saw it in English

[01:37:55] and I only was able to pick up on the visual gags Oh my God. And context clues to figure out what was going on because I do not speak French. I also saw Jumanji in the Israeli theaters and they do intermissions in like screen. For Jumanji? Yeah.

[01:38:08] That's giving Jumanji more pomp and serve. What was it? Jumanji like 90 minutes long. They just do it for all movies apparently. They're just like, oh, it's too long to sit through. That that's a movie that looks like Jumanji. Jesus Christ. I was reading an interview with a

[01:38:21] Jit Kastin who used to be a very good filmmaker. Yeah. What's the good one? Zero effect. Zero effects pretty good. He directed most of Freaks and Geeks. Yeah, he directed a lot of Freaks and Geeks. He did the pilot and directed the majority of the season.

[01:38:34] But TV directing is all about it. Orange County's totally solid. Solid. Yeah. And then he just stops making good movies. Orange County's the one with Jack Black, right? Correct. Yeah. I like that movie. Some people like the TV set. I've never seen it. It's okay.

[01:38:45] And he directed Walk Hard. Right. Walk Hard rules. Walk Hard's good. TV sets about... Then he did Bad Teacher which is basically a terrible movie that's sort of watchable. Right. But that felt like a rebound. Which is like, yeah, a nightmare. And then Jumanji looks horrific.

[01:39:00] I've read some interview with him. He was talking about it and he was like, we know how important the original is. So we want to be very reverential to the original. And I was like, we're canonizing Jumanji now. Jumanji's not good. No, it's okay.

[01:39:09] It's like a C plus, a B minus. We all just saw it. Yeah. Right. You know? I mean that's fine. That's fine. Is your mandatory Robin Williams film that summer? Right. Yeah, I saw it. Jumanji's best thing it has going for it

[01:39:21] was it was at that nexus of like still having a lot of practical effects. Like they're cool animatronics in Jumanji. But the movie who fucking gives a shit. Well, the trailer that I saw for the new one I was just like, what the fuck is this movie?

[01:39:33] Okay, David, can I turn the tables? Oh, sure. For once, I want you to guess the box office. OK. For the weekend of December 25th, 2015, Christmas weekend because that is when Point Break 2015 came out. It is one of one, two, three, four, five new releases that weekend.

[01:39:56] It opens at number eight with $9 million ends up making $28 million, which usually Christmas even a shitty movie multiplies like five times it's opening weekend. You got all the Jews going. Yeah. Dead on Arrival that haven't been said it made $100 million overseas. That was the big play there.

[01:40:14] OK, so it's Christmas. 2015. So I'll tell you the other movies that opened lower or around Point Break hateful eight is number 10 in limited release before this is just when it's in the 70 millimeter, right? We saw it together. Yes, we did.

[01:40:32] Hunger Games, Mock your day part two is number nine. Point Break is number eight. Tell the truth. Concussion is number seven. Tell the truth. Disney movie is just like that movie. Big Short is number six. It's first weekend going wide. Number five is a movie.

[01:40:48] It's in its second week. It has been talked about a lot on this podcast. I've invoked it many times is I'd say a lesser entry from one of my to say favorite directors would be incorrect, but one of the directors I'm most fascinated by. It is a sequel.

[01:41:06] He did not direct the two previous movies. He came on just for this one. I'm sorry. He did not direct the three previous movies. So it's the fourth entry director. I'm fascinated by series. A director. Oh, so it's it's Alvin and the chipmunks, the road. Correct.

[01:41:22] It's the road. Chip. It's the road. All right. OK, good. Opens to 13. Opens to 13. Opens to 13 ends up at 85. Does 140 overseas. OK, number four is a comedy. That made more money than everyone remembers. Comedy. Daddy's home. That is number two. Oh, OK. All right. OK, OK.

[01:41:47] That is number two opening with a robust thirty eight million dollars. That was the movie. I mean, we can all guess number one in a second. But that was the movie that people who couldn't see number one went to see instead. Right.

[01:41:57] So this this movie, the movie that's number four, it's in its second weekend of release. That was the big cornerstone of their advertising campaign, especially when like the stars are doing press and stuff. They kept on joking like go see this instead.

[01:42:08] If number one is sold out, it's a big much like Daddy's home. Yeah, it is big star to have already starred in a comedy together. It's a delayed follow up film for a comedy duo that is they're very well known for working together. They've only made two movies.

[01:42:25] You hate the first one. I hate the first one. Yes, you have said you think it's a contemptible movie. I think it's fine. I think it's a contemptible movie. Yes, you find the movie important. And I'm always surprised by how much you hit it.

[01:42:38] Sisters with Tina Fey and Amy. And you hate baby mama. I hate baby mama. I think both of them are solid. I think both of them have funny stuff. I like I liked baby mama. But I think what's really telling

[01:42:51] is my favorite part of baby mama was Romani Malco. He's so good. He's really good like that. If I think about that movie, I just remember Romani Malco. How have we still not gotten Romani Malco fucking vehicles? How have you not gotten him as a guest?

[01:43:04] I know he's going to be a guest next week. Number three movie because he got pigeonholed into black movies is is a lot of why and even I don't know. I just I just don't understand why. But even there, why he didn't become a leading man,

[01:43:20] like why he didn't have his own screen gems, like fucking romantic comedy. Yeah. But that was pretty good me guessing that right? Because talk about an anonymous movie. I mean, you gave me a lot of hints. People forget what's their second collaboration. It's sisters. This is the second.

[01:43:34] OK, OK. For some reason, I thought you did a lot of other stuff together. But this is the only their second movie. Number three is a belly flop from a star and director team that had had two massive successes in a row.

[01:43:46] Belly flop, two massive successes in a row. And this was sort of like the first time people were questioning the box office drawing power of someone who seemed to be a sure thing. And is this is it opening this week? Like is it a Christmas movie?

[01:44:01] It's a Christmas movie. It was the third collaboration from the director and the star. The other two had been huge financial successes, huge Oscar successes. And this one. Oh, is it joy? It is joy. Number two is Daddy's home and we all know at number one episode one.

[01:44:20] Yeah, yeah. Phantom Manus, the Force Awakens, stores, the Force Awakens, which makes a hundred and forty nine million in its second week. Oh, right. Now I remember like people were tweeting like sisters is my Star Wars. And I was like, that was their big thing. Why? Yeah.

[01:44:33] It's about sisters. It looks like garbage. I think I think the idea of sisters. Well, you know, it was funny because it's a polypel script, right? Have you have you seen that? No, I haven't. Because it's pretty solid. Yeah, I will say this.

[01:44:45] I thought all the advertising was terrible. I saw it out of obligation. You can never trust the advertising on this movie. It's a pretty good consistent joke movie. And the supporting cast is amazing. I think polypel is a genius, you know, or at least, you know,

[01:44:56] can't be a genius. But and it was obvious they just wanted to make a polypel script, right? They've worked with her forever. But like the whole idea of the movie to me just sort of seemed like they were like, you know how Tina Fey is usually the

[01:45:10] straight-laced one and Amy Poehler is the wilder one? What if we kind of reverse it? Like, yes. Yes, I just think the movie works pretty well for what it is. Like, yeah, as a kind of point, you look at like the original

[01:45:22] non-implanting that the more recent one is a remake, but the Belushi Acroyd neighbors where they like do the flip to be like, well, what if Acroyd's the crazy one? Right. Well, this isn't what I want. Yeah, both Poehler and Fey do what they're asked to do

[01:45:35] in Sisters Pretty Well. Yeah. Can you guess what Forza Weekend said made by the end of its second weekend? So it's been out for. So now you're saying right, it's ten days. $500 million. $540 million. Yeah, that's incredible. That's incredible because it made 200 something opening weekend. 250.

[01:45:56] And then I assume it's just making like 20 a day. Yeah. And then it makes 150. More, like 40 a day. It's fucking awesome. Because it gained 300 million. Last Jedi isn't going to come close and people might be like, uh-oh, like is Star Wars in trouble or whatever.

[01:46:09] But like it's just nothing's going to be like that. But also the exact same thing happened with the original trilogy. Like it was like the first one was huge, then Empire was a big dip and then return of the Jedi out grossed Empire. Right.

[01:46:23] See I thought you were talking about the F-Demise. I thought about it and I thought it would be too confusing. I thought about making that joke and calling it the sequel trilogy. No bits. No bits. No bits. Lux, thank you so much for being on the show.

[01:46:35] Thank you for having me. One of our earliest supporters. Really? Yeah. One of the hardest die in the wool blankies. I remember being on that road trip to Joe Gardens. We were going up to see Joe Garden in front of the show, Past and Future Gas.

[01:46:48] Yeah, and you were like, I have this idea for a podcast. I think we had just started it and I was trying to explain to you. I think we had maybe done two episodes. And I was trying to explain to the two of you why doing a podcast.

[01:47:00] This is when we still thought we were going to do 100 episodes just on the Phantom Madness. Right, of course. And you were like, why would you do that? And I made the whole case for what we thought we were doing.

[01:47:08] And then you talked me into downloading Star Wars Card Trader. I did. The dumbest app I have ever downloaded. I did, you know? I realized as an early adopter, some of those cards I have might actually be worth some money. But they're all already in the app.

[01:47:24] That's what I don't care. I know. Well, that was Joe Garden's big point was like, if you go to see all cards, you can just see them on your phone. You just have them all ready. But I just remember like four years ago,

[01:47:32] whenever it was when that app came out, our friend Caroline Anderson sold a card on eBay for $150. Are you fucking kidding? I'm not kidding. I remember that. I remember that. But it's like one of those movies where you realize the magic was inside you all the time.

[01:47:44] Yes, it was. The cards were inside us all the time. They were coming from inside the phone. Well, thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. Thank you for supporting the show. As always, please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Please do.

[01:48:00] Thanks to Andrew Fraguto for our social media. Thanks to Joe Bo and Pat Reynolds for our artwork, which was very point break inspired, leaning really hard on the point break. Mostly point break. So this is the episode where we really appreciate the artwork. Right.

[01:48:14] Lea Montgomery for our theme song. Ben's throwing up the devil horns. He's hanging 10. Ben is hanging 10. He looks like he needs an app. And as always, we never go to the vault. We never go to the vault. Don't go to the vault. Don't go to the vault.