Shallow Grave

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the end of the show is Blank Check I'd like to ask you about your hobbies.

[00:00:23] Now, when you sacrifice a goat and you rip its heart out with your bare hands, do you then summon hellfire? Or do you just send out for a podcast? This miniseries is gonna be murder. Well, don't worry. We do leave Scotland eventually. I know.

[00:00:40] So you don't at least you'll have to, you know. He went all over the world. Not to call my shot, I think my McGregor is better in the next episode. Can't say I remember. So, I don't know. I feel like that was one of those in and outs.

[00:00:54] You know? I think I did a better job. It was a little in, it was a little out, but it was in, it was in. We recorded that one already. Mm-hmm. I just think this is gonna be a tricky miniseries.

[00:01:04] Not just the McGregor of it, but all of it. Listen, it's gonna be a good series though. Mm-hmm. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors, who experience massive success early on in their careers

[00:01:26] and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby, and sometimes the babies crawl on the ceiling. Uh, that's true. Not in this. Sometimes those babies, uh, yeah, I don't know.

[00:01:42] There's a creepy wind-up baby in this one as well. That's true. It feels like a little bit of foreshadowing. A little foreshadowing, yeah. A little doll. This is, wait a second. You see off in the desert? It's so hot, the heat lines, distortion, I can't see.

[00:01:59] There's like a man on a horse. Far off, hello? Hello? Trying to invoke like Lawrence of Arabia, the Omar Sharif introduction. Who's that over there? Oh my God, he's slowly coming into focus. That's, that's no man. David, atop this horse. A new miniseries. Wow.

[00:02:25] Read a whole article while you did that. A miniseries. A new miniseries. Riding a dang horse. Riding a dang horse. Honestly, well. What? Well I was gonna say like, I feel like the director we're covering is sort of like the anti or the response to the sort of

[00:02:43] broad classical filmmaking that you're talking about. David Lean? Sure. But, but, you know, he's done some more epic stuff, but you know, he's jittery and wild and energetic.

[00:02:52] Don't you think he's more the direct response to Merchant Ivory who were kind of rumored to be all in the same boat? Kind of roaring. Absolutely. If you're. The table on the perception of British film at that point in time.

[00:03:02] But then, of course, he did make his David Lean-esque epic yesterday. Yes. Yesterday. Yes. Today. Folks, we're talking about Danny Boyle. Welcome to 2023. Happy New Year. I know it's like the fourth episode of 2023, but it's our first episode. We did some Selex. We did, we did a Shyamalan.

[00:03:26] Has that already come out? No, that'll be in a couple of weeks. And now we're talking about Danny Boyle. It's a miniseries called Trainspodcasting. You were waiting with bated breath. Trainspodcasting. For that. And that's what it is. It's called Trainspodcasting. Better the more quickly you say it. Trainspodcasting.

[00:03:45] Yes. Today we're talking his debut film. It's called Shallow Grave. 1995's Shallow Grave. Now, David is 2023 as you said. And we all know that the bit is retired for good. That's right. The bit is retired. No bit. There's no bit.

[00:04:04] So I am going to say David's wearing, David is truly, he walked into this studio wearing his No Bits shirt. That's right. A real statement piece.

[00:04:15] And so in the name of starting the year off on the right foot, I want to say that of course David grew up in England. Whoa! Yes, that's right. I will also say it. David grew up in England. When did I live in England?

[00:04:33] This is a thing that both of us knew. What ages? Fuck. I've only said it a million fucking times. 13 to 21? 9 to 22. Okay. 1995 to 2008. I almost maybe could have done the years better than the ages, but yeah, the math in my head was clearly wrong.

[00:04:53] Look, I'm recovering from a couple days of NyQuil. David? Yes? I bring this up because, not to re-litigate shit, there was a Reddit thread I found very funny. What was it?

[00:05:06] Complaining about the notion that we were covering Danny Boyle and that we, a group of yanks, were unqualified. How dare a show without a British voice talk Danny Boyle? Sure, right. Weigh in on this guy.

[00:05:19] Even though we fucking did a Miyazaki miniseries, I guess people yelled at us about that too. People yell at us about all kinds of things. People yell at us when we talk about Americans. People yell at us when we talk about our breakfasts.

[00:05:30] No, but I did grow up in Britain. And not only did I grow up in Britain, I grew up in Britain when this man was making movies and changing British culture. So it's even more specifically.

[00:05:40] And I have a goddamn British passport, and I know I sound the way I sound, but I am English. This is why I'm bringing it up. You were very defiant about this. I am. Because the thread was like a bunch of people going, The bit's retired. Yes.

[00:05:53] And then other people going, I don't think he's doing the bit. Oh, oh, in the thread. Sure. But is this how we want to start our new miniseries? Yes, because, because, you have wanted to do Danny Boyle for a long time.

[00:06:06] And one of the many reasons you wanted to do Danny Boyle is we haven't done a proper British filmmaker making films in the UK. Obviously, we did Christopher Nolan. The man is English, but he did leave England right away, essentially. After the first movie.

[00:06:21] You know, he made like Dunkirk is obviously, you know, that's, well, he made that in France, actually. So it doesn't even count. But right, you know, so like, we've never really done a British filmmaker. Obviously, we've had plenty of them on the bracket. Sure. Right. You know, Hitchcock.

[00:06:40] Lean. Heard of them? I don't know. Who else have we had? The Pallon Pressburger we've had on the bracket. Have they ever put Mike Lee on the bracket? We put, I put Mike Lee on my bracket. On your personal bracket.

[00:06:51] Yes. He would be, he would, that would be quite a miniseries if we did Mike Lee. That would be quite a miniseries. The Archers. Yeah, yeah, the Archers. But Danny Boyle, look, we both like some of Danny Boyle's movies.

[00:07:05] You know, we both like, for example, you and I long have long both cherished our love of his film Sunshine. A classic kind of movie for this podcast. That is a shared film of ours that we love. And in the early days.

[00:07:16] A famous bounce that we both appreciate. In the very early days of doing this podcast, when we were still in the Star Wars days, and we were thinking about doing isolated one-off episodes, we would throw out like, what are movies that we'd love to talk about?

[00:07:29] And in that initial batch of films, I think before we even really settled on the director miniseries idea, it was like, I'd love to do a Hulk episode. We'd love to do a Sunshine episode. Exactly. These are the kinds of things we think about.

[00:07:41] Right. So Sunshine is an episode we've been building up to in our entire run. Steve Jobs is a movie you fight for constantly. I adore. One of my favorite movies of the century. But very much a guy you've been pushing for a very long time.

[00:07:54] Who I'm a big fan of as well. Do you want to talk about your history with Danny Boyle as someone who, of course, I acknowledge, grew up in England when this man's films were coming out?

[00:08:10] Danny Boyle. Well, I saw these first two films that we're going to cover, Shallowgrave and Trainspotting, at a young age. And they were formative in that they were formative for everyone of my age in British culture. They were the cool Brit movies. Richie is the other guy, obviously.

[00:08:27] Sure. And he's been on our brackets too. But like, in my opinion, Guy Ritchie is... It's actually kind of wild that we put him on our brackets. Guy Ritchie? Yeah. You know, he has a thing. He has a thing. And he's made really, really weird projects. He has.

[00:08:41] He's also made franchise garbage. But like, you know, he's made like Revolver and stuff. The idea of having to do him at this point feels untenable. It might be tough at this point. Have you seen Day of Wrath? No, I hear it's good. Ben's putting up his fisticuffs.

[00:08:54] You know, but like, when I'm a teenager in England, the coolest English movies, there's this wave of exciting, vibrant, you know, sort of often crimey British movies, right? Like while America's having its Quentin Tarantino boom, and then the wave that follows, right?

[00:09:16] Everyone's like, let's all do movies about gangsters who shoot each other. Britain's doing its own version of that sort of. Except one of the launch movies for that is just a movie about three roommates who turn on each other over a bunch of money. It is wild.

[00:09:30] Like when you see the cover of this, especially the classic poster, which is just the shovel. You're like, oh, is it like Blood Simple? Is this kind of like a really pulpy crime movie? And it's like, yes, it is a crime movie.

[00:09:46] But really it's just about like yuppies turning on each other. It's an odd film and I had to keep on trying to place myself. I watched this movie as a 13 year old and was like, wow, so cool. What did I relate to in this movie?

[00:10:01] That's the thing. I don't say this backhandedly, right? But I wasn't the only one. Like me and my teenage friends, we were all like, ooh, you know. I think this is a good movie, but I also had to keep on reminding myself while watching it,

[00:10:13] like placing myself in the context of when this film came out, you know? And how much this movie was like a statement against what the status quo of British cinema was at the time.

[00:10:27] And that this film now, like you have to understand this movie as sort of like the breaking point. Right. Along with other movies, obviously. But it's just like that thing. So when I'm a teenager, he makes Shallowgrave and Trainspotting. We're all like, yeah, this is it.

[00:10:44] And by the time The Beach is coming out, it's that post-Britain, booming Britain in the 90s, you know? Where everyone's like, okay, the party's over. We're getting lame again. You know what I mean? Sure. And then he goes on to have the most interesting career. Yeah.

[00:10:59] That hops through every genre. Yeah. That works on big scales and tiny scales. Yeah, well, because The Beach, life-less ordinary doubleheader, obviously in the reverse of the order I said,

[00:11:10] is tough and feels like a classic, oh, here's like a great local filmmaker who gets swallowed up by the Hollywood machinery. He starts working with big stars at studio budgets, and it's just not translating, right? But I think it's also, it's like, ah, you lost what's cool. Yeah.

[00:11:32] You know, like those, you know, like, ah, shit, you had what was cool for a second. It's so hard to hold on to that. Absolutely. And now you're still trying to make cool movies and you've lost it.

[00:11:40] And then 28 days later, it's like, oh, you got it back again. Well, that's what's fascinating is then he just becomes like a genre experimenter. He becomes one of these guys where he's like, I'm going to do every type of movie,

[00:11:49] which is not what you would expect from the start of his career, right? Like you look at these first four films and you could easily see him becoming Guy Ritchie, for example, where it's like he goes in between my thing, steady studio hand stuff and being like,

[00:12:05] I'm going to keep on making different versions of Trainspotting into my 60s. 100 percent. I'm looking at the best British film award. Of course, he did make a second Trainspotting in the 60s. Go on. That's true. But, you know, people demanded that. We'll talk about it.

[00:12:21] We'll talk about it. We're going to talk about all of them. But it's just one of those directors where I kind of went all the way out on him like a lot of people. Sure. Then quietly went back in. Yeah.

[00:12:34] And now he holds an incredibly dear place in my heart, despite the fact that he's made some, he's swung and missed a few times. Yes. And so I've always wanted to do him and I wanted to do a modern British filmmaker.

[00:12:45] It'd be fun to talk about modern Britain because it'll be great whenever we do Powell and Pressburg. Yes. But those guys are the most British filmmakers of all time and that they are about, you know,

[00:12:55] sort of wobbly chinned guys with mustaches who are like, I just don't know about all this. And you're like, look, I'm horned. I love it. You know, but it's a little bit of a yesteryear thing. Yeah, you love it.

[00:13:08] You're just thinking about Roger Livesy or something like that. David, that is exactly what I'm thinking about. Why wouldn't you be? But, you know, these are interesting, vibrant movies. I feel like I keep saying vibrant. Energetic. Have I what? Had you ever seen Shallow Grave before?

[00:13:25] I had not. Didn't think so. Ben? No. Because the thing with Trainspotting is that was the true crossover hit. Yes. This movie was huge in Britain, but it was a niche film in America. It was the highest grossing local British film of its year with six million dollars.

[00:13:40] Pounds. Excuse me, pounds. Sterling. Pound Sterling. Sure. Trainspotting does three times that in the UK alone? Maybe. Jesus does it. Let's see. What are on pounds? Like the queen? The queen is on one side. Now would be the king. Hey.

[00:14:03] But back in the day, it was the young queen. Yeah. And then on the other side, you got various people, various sort of, you know. Various people. Well, they switch them out sometimes. So on the current pound notes, if you want to know. Ralph?

[00:14:16] Wearing his Las Vegas shirt. So on the current pound notes, let's see, are apparently Winston Churchill's on the five. Heard of him. Heard of him. A little boring. He's got a stogie. No, let's see. What's the picture of him look like?

[00:14:37] You know, he's just kind of, you know, looking like a big bulldog. Drinking some sherry. That's just his quote. I know he's got a lot of famous quotes. It should be Churchill on the back of every bill, but each bill is a different face and a different quote.

[00:14:51] That'd be great. Jane Austen is on the 10. We love her. JMW Turner is on the 20. Wow. Mr. Turner. Who dat? A painter. A famous painter. Beginning of impressionism. Look at that shit. So good. And the back of the bill is the scene from the movie.

[00:15:16] That's from the 1700s, Ben. Like, that's how old that is. The back of the bill is just exactly the scene from the movie when he grabs a woman's crotch and keeps his hand there for two minutes without looking. Right? Yes.

[00:15:28] And he's referencing the Michael B. Film Turner, which is really good. And on the 50, we now call them computers. Alan Turing. But before then, you know, you had Charles. Fascinating guy, Turing. Dickens. When I was a kid, Dickens was on the 10.

[00:15:42] And, you know, Darwin was on the 10 for a while. Florence Nightingale. Isaac Newton. You know, Britain's got a lot of people they can dredge up. Bruce Forsythe. How do you know Bruce Forsythe? I knew I was going to impress you with that one.

[00:15:56] Oh, you got me with Bruce Forsythe. Thank you. Suggs. Suggs for madness. Of course, Suggs. Yeah, he's actually currently on the 100. Suggs is less impressive to me because I've just, you knowing about madness makes total sense. Yeah, but Suggs. Because that's a fun bit. I know.

[00:16:20] Suggs is a good pull. How do you know Bruce Forsythe? I'm not going to tell. What's a good comp for Bruce Forsythe? First of all, I believe Bruce Forsythe hosted an episode of The Muppet Show. I mean, that's possible. Looks like he did, yes.

[00:16:34] Secondly, there's a really good Bruce Forsythe bit on Toast of London. Okay. I mean, it's phenomenal. But there's an episode where a woman has had plastic surgery to look more like Bruce Forsythe. He had a very sort of pointy head, Bruce Forsythe. Yes.

[00:16:49] And Matt Berry in his voice, which I can barely imitate, just keeps on saying, Bruce Forsythe! Bruce Forsythe is a good example of when I left England. Yeah. When I would come back and I'd be hanging out with my friends, I'd be like, is Bob Monkhouse still alive?

[00:17:03] And they'd be like, no, he died. And I'd be like, oh shit! And I'd be like, I can't find out about that in America. He's not famous there. No one's going to tell me when these guys die. Bruce Forsythe was another one.

[00:17:14] I'm like, I'm not going to hear about that. He lived until like 99, I think. He lived until 89. He died a few years ago. Who's like a perpetual game show host type guy in America? Chuck Woolery. Sure. Great poster. I don't know who that is, but sure.

[00:17:31] No, I'm saying he's a great poster, Chuck Woolery. Oh yeah, that's the thing. But the thing with Sajak is like, that guy hosts Wheel of Fortune. Bruce Forsythe hosted like five different game shows. Like whenever one would end, he'd get another one. Okay, I got a good example.

[00:17:46] He was like a consummate host. I got a good example. I got a good American equivalent. You know Mark Wahlberg, the other one who's not Mark Wahlberg but hosts game shows? But not Donnie? No, his name is Mark Wahlberg. I don't. And he never changed it.

[00:18:01] And he has been hosting game shows regularly since the 90s. Yeah, I see him. He hosts like Antique Road Show and stuff. But like famous. Bruce Forsythe was famous. I know! Like the Queen knew him. Yes. Britain's weird.

[00:18:18] You don't have to tell me that Bruce Forsythe is famous. You've heard the reference. Even you know who he is. This is a concept I love. But this is the thing about Britain where you're like, why is that fucker famous? And they're like, he just is.

[00:18:29] He literally seems talented. And they're like, well, shut up! This is the thing I love. I don't care! It speaks so much to the class obsession of the UK, right? That someone like Bruce Forsythe is like formally referred to as a light entertainer. Yes, light entertainment. Absolutely.

[00:18:48] That there's this type of celebrity where it's like... Ant and Dec are today's best example of that. But there's this sort of like diminishing kind of like, what does he do? He's a light entertainer. That's exactly it though. What do you do? Do you act in films?

[00:19:01] No, no, no. Not good at that. Do you have a TV show where you like play characters? No, no, no. You don't do sketches? Are you a singer? I sing a little. I can sing. Are you a dancer? I can dance a little. I have danced.

[00:19:23] What are you? I'm just good at getting the guest from the floor to the stage. In Britain, it's like there's this whole... I don't know why we're talking about this because Danny Boyle is not really going to touch on this at all.

[00:19:32] Although he made Who Wants to be a Millionaire movie. He did. And Chris Tarrant, who's the host of The British Who Wants to be a Millionaire, is another great example of this trend. A light entertainer. Yeah, where it's like, well, what do you... Why are you so rich?

[00:19:45] Well, I host a radio show in the morning. And then in the afternoon, I'm filming my BBC documentary where I like tour the world's great railroads. And then at 5 p.m., turn on your TV. I'm hosting a game show.

[00:19:57] I'm on the other channel hosting like Strictly Come Dancing or whatever. I'm hosting some other competition show. I mean, like Seacrest is our equivalent. Seacrest is... there you go. Or fucking Dick Clark. Dick Clark is the example. But both of those guys are thought of here as moguls.

[00:20:12] Well, now they're... They're business geniuses. Dick Clark is the good example where it's like, what are you good at? And the answer is nothing. But he's okay at a lot of things and can kind of keep things... Regis was the best of them.

[00:20:24] But Regis, at least, he hosted a fucking talk show. Yes. I know it was a morning show. No, Regis was the best of them. And also like... Regis was funny. Yeah. And I'm not to... you know, Bruce Forsythe had his problems.

[00:20:39] But, you know, he could be funny in his way. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't think Bruce Forsythe has any problems. He's my favorite light entertainer. The whole thing in Britain is like you eventually get canceled because you just eventually you're like,

[00:20:50] you know, Britain used to be a bit jolly good back in the day. And everyone's like, what do you mean, buddy? How back in the day are we going? Britain was pretty jolly bad. And what was the good part, in your opinion? Did Bruce do that?

[00:21:03] Did Bruce step in? Oh, 100%. All the time. Wow. I was just thinking about when Regis was Shrek. Oh, that was... That is actually... Maybe the best... That is like anti-comedy. That is like Tim Heidecker level brilliance. Yeah. Any time Regis went on Letterman was just so good. Yeah.

[00:21:25] And Regis like genuinely was like, took me eight hours to get this make up. Gonna have to watch that later. All right. This is Blank Check. We're talking Danny Boyle, baby. We're not talking about British light entertainers. I'll say my history of Danny Boyle, I think 20 days later,

[00:21:44] was the first one I saw in theaters. Makes sense. I was mostly just, you know, that's the age. I'm like 13 or whatever. I'm like, I'm getting into comedy, these movies, these cool specialty arm releases. Yes. I'm getting into horror movies. It hits all the buttons, right? Yes.

[00:22:03] And everyone's like, can you believe Danny Boyle made this movie? And I'm like, who the fuck is Danny Boyle? So then I watched... But maybe you had heard of Trainspotting. I knew what Trainspotting was, but I didn't put a name to it.

[00:22:13] So then I went back and watched Trainspotting. I had never seen Shallow Grave. I have not seen Life Less Ordinary or The Beach. I'm excited to watch both for the first time. The Beach is crazy. And then post 20 days later, I believe I see everyone in theaters.

[00:22:26] You saw Millions? Sunshine? Yep. Sunblock Millionaire? 127 Hours? Trance? Oh, you know what? I didn't see Trance and I didn't see... You saw Jobs in theaters. I saw Jobs in theaters. I didn't see T2. I didn't see T2. I didn't see T2. I didn't see T2.

[00:22:53] I didn't see T2. I didn't see T2. I was in what you freaks would call the sixth grade. And you would call it? Year 7. What the fuck? I know. Bizarre. Because kindergarten is one? I don't fucking know. It would have to be.

[00:23:13] If you're one ahead of us, kindergarten is one. I just thought it was so funny. I guess it's sort of like, welcome. You're in the reception of school. The lowest grade. But maybe they start at four? Maybe that's how it gets offset. Because what year one would be?

[00:23:28] Jack Black and Michael Sayre, obviously. But it would also be... Look, all I'm going to tell you is that I was in what English people would call year 7. And any English listener knows that. Got it. You don't have to reward me. The restraint. Alright. So you're saying?

[00:23:46] In year 7. Pavlovian, I want to say how do you know that over and over again. Every single thing you say. We had music class. Shush. Once a week in my school. And I pitied these poor music teachers. Because they were essentially dealing with 25-30 kids. I'm like 11 or 12.

[00:24:04] And you're going to try and teach us music for 40 minutes. It's like once a week. What kind of consistency can you really build up there? You're going to have us take instruments. It's not that. Instruments are fun to hit your friends with.

[00:24:20] You can make a lot of noise. But of course, there was a lot about mallets. You're giving mallets to kids? What did you play? What did I play? I played the piano. And then when I was a teenager, I tried to learn the drums.

[00:24:35] David Sims tickling the ivories. I tried to learn the drums and I was alright at it. But it's like early practice. And when it came to the like, it's time to get drums in your house. I was like, I'm not.

[00:24:46] I'm still pissed that my parents wouldn't let me play drums. It would have. That's a penny-wise pound foolish decision on your parents' part. I think if they had put a drum set in your basement. Or the garage or whatever.

[00:25:00] It would have redistributed a lot of energy that otherwise went into general tomfoolery and rap-scallion business. Yeah, and you've got drummer energy. I mean, it's something I was so jealous of that my friends who were able to convince their parents to let them do it.

[00:25:17] And I just think it's like a fucking cool thing to do. Don't you think it would have been a release valve for you? Absolutely! You would have stayed at home studiously playing your drums. Fucking getting some aggression now.

[00:25:29] And then you would have come upstairs calm, hair slicked back. But then I might have ended up being in bands and stuff. That's where the road kind of went down. But still, you know, apply yourself. Could have been like a grindcore band or something.

[00:25:44] I just remember it was the end of the school year and Mr. Smedley, God bless him, I wonder if he's still teaching. We're talking, Jesus, I'm old. We're talking almost 20 years ago. Yeah. Fuck, maybe more than 25 years ago. Was like, let's watch a movie.

[00:26:02] You know, like it's like it's the end of the year. And my friend Asher, a little troublemaker, had Shallow Grave, which is rated 18. It's like a, you know, adult movie. He was like, can we watch Shallow Grave? And Mr. Smedley clearly did not know.

[00:26:17] He just had the VHS on him? Yes, because it was that thing where at the end of the year, a lot of teachers were like, do you want to watch a video? And I think kids would bring, I would do it too.

[00:26:24] I would bring like videos like being like, maybe we can like sneak South Park on here or something. You know what I mean? I remember getting my math class to watch Back to the Future. That's fun. In a similar way. That's fun for the whole family.

[00:26:36] It was great. Yeah. You know, we were a bunch of boys. I went to a boys school. Humblebrag. All boys. Not a humblebrag. Did you eat your meat? Did I eat my meat? You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat. What? You're okay.

[00:26:53] Do you smell bread? It's from the pink, it's from the wall. Yeah, it's from the wall. Okay. That's when all boys schools. English school is just like, we're all in our little, I did wear a uniform. I did single sense education and uniforms, very common in England.

[00:27:08] Can someone please make fan art of David in the style of the wall? Yeah, someone do that. Okay. Mr. Smedley, God bless him, clearly did not know what shallow grave was. Now maybe the title shallow grave should have been enough of a red flag for him.

[00:27:24] But he was clearly like, huh? Oh, okay. And we put on shallow grave. And I remember I had the initial thing of like, this is like a grown up movie. I'm like 12 years old. I'm like, is this going to be fucked up?

[00:27:35] And then we were all just like completely mesmerized by it. Wow. I think because it felt so grown up. Yeah. And then when Carrie Fox was tits out early on, Mrs. Smedley was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on here? But he didn't turn it off?

[00:27:49] No, he let us watch the first 40 minutes of it. Okay. And then I think I like watched it on TV later. Then you had to rent it. Yeah. But that was my first exposure. Wow. Clear memory. Yeah.

[00:28:01] No, Mr. Smedley clearly was just like, well, I've taken the L here. They're already watching it. I'm in too deep. You know what I mean? Like, what am I going to do? Turn it off now and be like, I didn't realize shallow grave was bad. Like, you know.

[00:28:15] But he wasn't going to. It was kind of like, just please can no one mention this. He wasn't going to finish it next class. No, it wasn't that. It was one and done. Okay. We'll pick up here. Chris Ferguson's drilling holes in the ceiling. Wonder what that's about.

[00:28:33] Okay. So you said this right before recording. This movie has two doctors. Sure does. Peter Davidson? No, no, no. I wasn't being, although John Hodge, who's Peter Davidson? Why am I, Davidson? Am I getting the name right?

[00:28:51] There's a guy in this movie who for a second I thought was one of the other doctors, an earlier doctor. He was what, the third? No. Sixth? No, this movie has two doctors. Peter Davidson was the fifth doctor. There you go.

[00:29:07] There's a lot of Peter Davidsons out there. What do you want from me? I don't know. He's the one after Tom Baker with the celery on his lapel. Yes. No, this movie has two doctors in it. Who and sleep. Swish.

[00:29:25] You could put a swish and then the crowd going wild from NBA Jam? Thank you. There's someone in this movie I thought was Peter Davidson. I was proud of myself. No, I don't think so. Okay, well, incredible joke. Five comedy points. Thank you. He's on fire.

[00:29:43] And the movie does have Gary Lewis for a second. He's one of the prospective roommates, I think. And he plays Billy Elliot's dad in Billy Elliot. Oh, really good performance. Yes. Maybe him? No, no, no. I thought the guy on TV was Peter Davidson. Well, maybe it was.

[00:30:01] I don't fucking give a shit. I suck. Shallow Grave. It does have two doctors. Who and sleep. Do you want to do the NBA Jam sound again? Maybe just once. We'll see. This movie came out in 1994 at Cannes. Was released in Britain in 1995 and in America.

[00:30:25] Was rapturously received in Britain. Yeah. I feel like the American response was like, you know, interesting. Right? Sure. Ebert gave it two out of four. And Maslin at the time was like, eh, a little sour for my taste. You know, a little misanthropic.

[00:30:46] It was pretty parallel to the Tarantino thing, right? This was sort of Reservoir Dogs-y. Yes, that is a good call. Yes. Even though this movie is obviously a lot less like genre-y than Reservoir Dogs,

[00:30:58] it is the same kind of thing of like, right, here's Danny with a little money. Yeah. Then Trainspotting is like, here's Danny with some more money. And more of a sort of like let him off the leash vibe. Right. And then, you know, we go from there. Right.

[00:31:16] And Trainspotting and Pulp Fiction are both like, this thing is fully crystallized now and people are going to be ripping this off for the next decade. And it's like, so of the culture, so of the moment. I re-watched Reservoir Dogs this week and I was reading.

[00:31:27] I don't know why. It's not a bad thing to do. I know. You know why? Because the Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction steelbooks came out and I hadn't watched either one in a little while and I watched both again. I just felt like it. Yeah.

[00:31:42] I just felt like it can get off my fucking back. You know what's good? What? Reservoir Dogs. Reservoir Dogs is good. But even, that are sort of like two stars. Like, I don't know. It's a lot of flash. It's a lot of substance.

[00:31:58] It's a lot of style, you know? It's not a lot of substance. Sorry. Yes. It's a lot of, yes. And it's like, they didn't know who this was at this point. It feels like a posture. Right.

[00:32:14] It feels like it's trying a little hard and it's also both of those movies are so cynical or dark or whatever that you kind of exit with like, Jesus. You know, like, we're all dead.

[00:32:20] Like, I mean, like, I think the older state's been a film criticism for both of these movies. Yeah. For Shallow Grave and for Reservoir Dogs. You can tell that they're like, fuck, is this the beginning of a new trend? Right, right.

[00:32:32] Someone like, I'm going to see what JJ pulled, but someone like Barry Norman probably was like, oh, I don't know. Whereas like Empire Magazine, which was like the cool British magazine of the day, is like, here we are, baby. This is the best British film in years. Right.

[00:32:46] Like, this is it. We're cool. We're cool. We want this to be the next 10 years of film. And by the time the second movie has come out, Trainspotting and Pulp Fiction, everyone's basically surrendered and gone like, fine, this is a thing now.

[00:32:59] I mean, the winner, I was looking at the best British film category. Sure. It's a category at the BAFTAs. You know, it goes on to this day. It's become kind of embarrassing. And it got revived in the 90s.

[00:33:13] It actually been a category in the 60s and then forgot about it in the 90s. In 92, The Crying Game won. That's an Irish film. British-Irish. In 93, Shadowlands won. So that's a very old fad. It's Richard Attenborough, a movie about C.S. Lewis. It's Winger and Hopkins, right? Yeah.

[00:33:31] And the other nominees are Tom and Viv, which is similarly, you know. And then Naked, which is the Mike Lee movie, which is more modern and aggressive. I mean, it's an incredible movie.

[00:33:40] And a Ken Loach movie, or truly a Ken Loach movie, I don't even know, Raining Stones. But in 94, Shallow Grave wins that prize. Okay. So it's like a year after Shadowlands, BAFTA's like, best British film? Shallow Grave. Wow.

[00:33:54] You know, a little bit of a like, all right, we'll give it to the cool movie. So, you know, just to give you a sense of like British cinema in the 90s. Can we crack open the dossier and get into Boyle? Yeah, yeah, let's talk about Danny Boyle.

[00:34:10] Outside of him coming from theater, I don't know much about his origins. Danny Boyle culling origins? Yeah. Danny Boyle, he has a twin sister. I don't know if you knew that. Maria Boyle. No. Born October 20th, 1956. Happy birthday. To him?

[00:34:30] Yeah, in advance. I want to get out of the way. Okay. He's a Libra, of course. Born, he's from Manchester. He's from a little town called Radcliffe, which is north of Manchester. Okay. But his mother is Irish. Danny Boyle. Exactly. He sounds Irish. The name sounds Irish.

[00:34:46] His mother had emigrated to England from Ireland in the 50s. She was a hairdresser. She met his father at a dance. Oh. In 1952, they married in 1954. Danny is born in 1956. And he was brought up at a farm. His dad worked at a farm.

[00:35:06] Basically like a working class Catholic boy in northern England. He passed the 11 plus, which is this like, have I talked about the 11 plus? I don't think so. Back in the day when you were 11 in Britain, you took a test, like a standardized test.

[00:35:23] And if you passed it, you got to go to the good school, the grammar school. And if you failed it, you got to go to the local sort of vocational school. Okay.

[00:35:32] And it was one of those things that was undeniably like did vault a lot of people out of the working class. But it was also like you took one fucking test when you were 11 and it determined where you like fell your whole fucking life.

[00:35:41] And my dad, my dad was working class Londoner. He passed the 11 plus and his one of his brothers did. And his other brother and sister failed the 11 plus. And literally like you just saw it in their entire lives.

[00:35:53] Like two of them entered the middle class. Two of them did not. Like when I was a kid, like it was it was crazy. They eventually got rid of the 11 plus. It was too crazy. That feels very in line with the whole.

[00:36:05] Is there like post-war like we shall help, you know? Right. Take this test, young boy. Oh, you failed. Carpentry for you, you know, or whatever. You just sort of that weird kind of like the whole British class obsession where they're like, okay, we understand.

[00:36:17] This is a prison. We're going to fix it. It's bad for you. One opportunity to raise your station at 11 and the door closed. Like, yes, you have one chance.

[00:36:27] Dad would tell me about like when he passed the 11 plus and started going to the grammar school like his friends who didn't were like, well, we won't talk to you anymore.

[00:36:34] Yeah. You know, it was like right then. It was like, well, you're going to the fancy school now. We don't want to deal with you. Wow. Jeez. Anyway, my dad didn't even go to college. He kind of fucked him up. But anyway, but he figured it out.

[00:36:46] You know, shout out to my dad. He didn't like school, says Danny Boyle. But he pushed himself very hard. He was competitive with his sister. Okay. What does his sister do now? Do we know? Maria Boyle? Maria Boyle? I don't know.

[00:37:04] I think his sister's like a teacher, maybe. I just remember when he I was at the premiere of Yesterday. Hummelberg. I know. And he came out and introduced and he was like, this movie is like my salute to teachers.

[00:37:17] And then I watched the movie and I was like, all right. Do you hate your sister? But maybe I think he may have said like, my sister's a teacher. I love English school teacher. Anyway, whatever. But so he just like, you know, he's a.

[00:37:30] Oh, I love this. Thank you, JJ, for putting this in. His dad was like what you would consider back in the day, a hardcore, like working class labor voter, Tony Benn type.

[00:37:40] Tony Benn is sort of like a famous politician on the left of labor who I love personally as well. But, you know, so he passes 11 plus, he goes to a good school, you know, tough teachers. He said he had an English teacher who changed his life, Mr. Unsworth.

[00:37:56] OK. Who is like teaching him Jane Austen and Shakespeare and stuff like when he's a teenager and like getting him into it. And he thinks that's like what gets him into theater, gets him into all that stuff. Right. Love that stuff. Right.

[00:38:09] He was at one point in his life. I'm jumping ahead here. You're not. You're about to say it. On track to become a priest. His mother wanted him to enter the priesthood. It sounds like his mom really loved Jesus. Many do. I've heard of that guy.

[00:38:23] Many do, I've found. And Boyle said when he was 14 years old, a priest. Yes. Was like, you don't want to do this. Like a priest was the one who was like, you don't want to go to seminary school.

[00:38:37] Right. There was a line I saw from him where he was like, I don't know if he was trying to save me from the church or save the church from me. Yes. Which is very funny. The priest. Very funny.

[00:38:45] Very, very funny. It is. Right. I mean, I don't know what young Danny Boyle was like. Maybe the priest was just like, you're not going to have the energy for this. Or maybe the priest was like, this sucks. Right. It was either a great act of kindness or.

[00:38:55] Or like judgmental. Exclusionary. Yes. But so instead he starts doing theater. Right. That's his new like world. I did read a quote from where he said, like, I do find it fascinating how many filmmakers thought they were going to become priests that were on that track.

[00:39:10] And the ones he cited were M. Night Shyamalan, Martin Scorsese and John Woo. And he's like, I do think there's something to the relationship between those types of positions where you want everyone to pay attention to you as you steer a story around.

[00:39:25] Yeah. No, it's. And tell people what to think and how to think. And I think especially for like the Scorsese types, it's like he's like, I don't want to like run around and play sports or like be a bad kid.

[00:39:36] Like I'm not in those scenes. So I'll just like go here where I get to like sit down and read books. And lead conversation. And learn stories. And yeah, do all this stuff. And deeply engage in stories. That's the other thing. To like study stories like that. Yeah.

[00:39:48] When he was in sixth form, which you would consider like junior year of high school. He directed a play about a Polish cardinal. My guess is, you know, that was sort of Catholic-y, school-y kind of thing. In 1973, he sees a Clockwork Orange.

[00:40:13] What he says the boutique porn cinema in Bolton, which is another town outside of Manchester. Right before it gets banned. Right before Kubrick is like, fuck it. Get it out of theaters if you don't like it.

[00:40:25] And he says it was an overwhelming experience. Simulates your senses so much. It's the point of cinema to me to be visceral rather than intellectual or reflective. The reflection can come later. All of this obviously speaking to Danny Boyle's filmmaking style.

[00:40:40] Yes. Yes. I saw Apocalypse Now. He also cited it as a big turn on moment for him. Yeah. Yeah. He says the poster just got him. Yeah. He just saw a poster that said Apocalypse Now and he was like, oh shit.

[00:40:54] That movie blew him away. He still calls that the ultimate action movie. It's all movement. When the movement stops, you get Extraordinary Crisis. It's my absolute favorite film of all time ever. It's mad. It's flawed. It's total filmmaking on a gargantuan scale. Some other early movies for him.

[00:41:13] Battle of the Bulge, which is a classic old war movie. Sound of Music when he was a little kid. And he came to the DGA. Here's a DGA story he tells. I guess he was talking to DGA quarterly. My favorite magazine.

[00:41:27] He says, I came to the Guild for Q&A after Shallow Grave. It was my first film. It had gone well. And an older guy in the audience comes up to me afterwards and says, hey, good job, young man.

[00:41:39] And I said, oh, thanks very much. And someone leans over and is like, this is Robert Wise. Wow. That's cool. Very cool. Never got to meet him again, he said. But it was so great. Anyway, goes to Bangor University. Hell yeah.

[00:41:53] You just like bangers? Yep. And did he go to MASH for Postgrad? No, he went to AfterMASH. Okay, thank you. Stupid joke. Alley-oop. Was it? It's like we both alley-ooped and then we just collided. And the ball's over there. Bangor University, which is in Wales.

[00:42:14] He says he's a very glammy boy at that point. Loves David Bowie. He loves Roxy Music. Starts doing more drama. You know, he's a cool, punky, 70s British boy who does theater.

[00:42:27] Did a dissertation on Samuel Beckett. Directed a bunch of plays and then starts working at the Joint Stock Theater Company. Meets Alison Ritchie, who I feel like I know who that is. Isn't that like an author or something?

[00:42:41] He's kind of interested in doing movies, but is, you know, plays. Through the 80s, I think that's what he's doing. He directed a Carole Churchill play, She Rules. Do you guys like Carole Churchill? No? I'm not familiar with her.

[00:42:55] I feel like you have seen some Carole Churchill. Really? Have you ever seen A Number? That was done. Oh, I have. It's Carole. Crazy old Carole. Top Girls is her most famous. Very into the overlapping dialogue. Main theater taught him, he says, love of actors.

[00:43:17] You can't do theater unless you love actors on some level, he says. He says some directors are ghastly or unpleasant to them, obviously, but you've got to love the acting, the craft of acting. And he thinks that was hugely helpful for him as a film director.

[00:43:30] He has always struck me as an unusually kind man. He seems like a real sweetheart. Right? And I've certainly never heard any story about him that was remotely negative. No. In fact, one of the things… You don't really hear gossip about Danny Boyle.

[00:43:46] No. One of the things I've heard about him, the most prepared director. That makes sense. The most prepared, organized… The theater thing feels like that's a part of it, right?

[00:43:55] But there's a certain, like, you know, there's a manic quality to his films that I think you hear of other filmmakers achieving through like a sort of planned chaos. Right, right, right. We'll just day by day, we'll figure this out. Right. Other people can do the planning shit.

[00:44:12] Yeah. And he just seems like an incredibly enthusiastic, kind, thoughtful person. Starts making TV films for the BBC. Okay. Did some Inspector Morse's. We love him. Yes. He produced Alan Clarke's famous 1989 film Elephant, which I'm sure you've heard of because obviously Gus Vincent… An excellent movie.

[00:44:38] Gus Vincent was inspired by it for his movie Elephant. Yeah, I'll give a hot tip. I was stocking up on the couple of bulls I needed on like iTunes. Weirdly, I'm sure we'll talk about this as we go forward.

[00:44:50] Weird that there's a lot of stuff that's not available in certain places. Spoiler is oddly poorly represented in physical media. Several of his films have never been released on Blu-ray, period. And only two of his movies are on 4K. So yeah, iTunes and other rental places, the like.

[00:45:07] Anyway, I was looking up Danny Boyle on iTunes and they sell the original Elephant for $2. Hey! It's 40 minutes long. It's a pretty lengthy short. It's really cool. But for anyone who… It's worth seeing, period. But if you are a fan of Gus Vincent's Elephant… It's crucial.

[00:45:27] It's crucial. I highly recommend it. Anyway, that's a hot tip. I just bought it the other day while buying Lifeless Ordinary. Here is Danny Boyle talking about Alan Clarke, the director of that film. He was so easy and equitable with everyone. It was a wonderful combination.

[00:45:40] Terrifying concentration and obsession with an idea but very garrulous. I would try to get him to go out for a meal and he'd say, no, I'm eating in my room watching Rushes.

[00:45:51] And I learned that from him. Watch the Rushes. Watch what you've done. It's boring but you learn all the time from it. It's a huge thing for me. That's Danny Boyle. Now, Mr. John Hodge. Not Hodgman. He's a doctor. A real doctor. Of medicine.

[00:46:09] He studied at the University of Edinburgh. So this movie has three doctors. That's true. And he had long aspired to write a screenplay. He'd loved movies since he was a teenager.

[00:46:19] And he thinks up the premise of Shallow Grave, which he says wasn't startlingly original but it was confined in terms of location. I thought it might be viable.

[00:46:28] And I just started writing and I met Andrew MacDonald who's a friend of my sister's who's working as a location manager for Taggart, which is a TV show.

[00:46:36] And he wanted to be a producer. He gets the script. It is really one of those things where you're like, it's crazy that this happened. That these two guys were just like, I don't know.

[00:46:45] One guy writes the script and he's like, is this good? And another guy who has the lowest level job in TV is like, I like it. Let's see if we can get a little money. It's a little like Mad Max though. Yes. Well, Mad Max is right. Yeah.

[00:46:58] Similarly, like a doctor meeting someone in film and being like, what if we just made this? It is also a testimony as is Mad Max to other countries having more robust government filming of the arts. Which is the biggest thing.

[00:47:11] Because it gets into the hands of Film 4, which is an off branch of Channel 4, which is a government funded television channel.

[00:47:17] And they like the script and they're like, here's a little bit of money and here's Danny Boyle who's like a TV director who we like, who is good. And that's it.

[00:47:30] It really helps the culture of a country when your government does not almost have open contempt for the arts. Yeah. And so I think they met with a bunch of directors, according to Andrew McDonald.

[00:47:42] He said most of the directors who met them would be like, the characters are very unsympathetic. Can we like smooth that out a little bit? And Danny Boyle was the one who was like, don't want to do that. And they were like, great, you're hired. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:56] The most important thing to Boyle is that he really wanted the characters to be rich. Because he was, and here's the quote, if they were poor, then you'd have more of an excuse for their obnoxious behavior.

[00:48:07] And I said, no, no, no. The whole point is that these people don't need the money. They've got good jobs. They have a nice secure profession. They have this beautiful flat, but they're bored with each other and they need this new ingredient, the new roommate.

[00:48:18] And so he's just kind of like, you know, like the satire. If it's just about like people at the end of their ropes who are desperate for the money, then it's a different kind of movie. Like it's not the movie that it is at all.

[00:48:28] Yeah. It was very surprising to me watching the film when they don't make that part of the setup. When you go like, wait, did they skip the part where they explain why they need the money? Then getting the past due bill from the electric company or whatever.

[00:48:43] Right. They don't know. They actually don't. No, they're little yuppies. This is a yuppie satire. She's like a doctor. He was an accountant. Ewan McGregor's a journalist. They all have jobs. Yeah. So another thing. He loved the Coen brothers. He did love Blood Simple. Yes.

[00:49:07] The Grifters is another one. Oh, sure. He mentions those movies during the interview and they're like, yep, you understand the vibe we want. Frears is kind of an interesting outlier. We talk about the state of British film at the point where oil is entering.

[00:49:20] I would say Stephen Frears at this moment in the early 90s is a very exciting filmmaker. Yeah. And he's not doing the stodgy prestige stiff upper lip thing. He made movies about real life. Like The Hit and My Beautiful Entree, Sammy and Rosie Get Laid and all that.

[00:49:35] But then he could also give you dangerous liaisons. Exactly. He could give you, I mean, The Grifters is a different thing, but that is a period movie. It's a crime movie. It's pulpy. It's intense. But he could jump right in. He could jump right in.

[00:49:49] Similarly, yeah, like a genre Hermit Crab. He is a real Hermit Crab. Have you seen that guy too? He looks like a Hermit Crab. Yes. There's some Jack Black interview where he's one of those fucking timeline of my career videos

[00:50:01] where he's talking about working on High Fidelity and he says that he calls Stephen Frears the warlock. Cool. Because he's got these great bushy eyebrows. He does.

[00:50:11] But like, yeah, if you go like on one end of British film at this point in time, you have like the real sort of like Ken Loach, Mike Lee, working class, humanist, realist, you know, and then you have this sort of Merchant Ivory, the Richard Attenborough, whatever.

[00:50:29] Frears is someone who's maybe more of a career model for what Boyle could want to do and then Boyle's adding a new sort of energy and countercultural sort of bent to it. John Hodge continues practicing medicine. Okay.

[00:50:44] Because he's like not sure if this is going to work out. Just an interesting thing. And here's a Boyle story about apparently during Scottish medicine, the doctors and nurses would have acronyms that they would use with each other.

[00:50:59] It's just a funny story to like, you know, communicate with each other without the patient understanding. Oh, that's okay. FLK, funny looking kid. But the most extreme one, and this is God's honest truth, Danny Boyle says is TF Bundy,

[00:51:13] which stands for totally fucked but unfortunately not dead yet. Anyway, Shalagrave. A very interesting thing. No guns in this movie. Yes. Boyle said we didn't want to use guns. There's something wholly false about people with guns in Britain because there are very few guns around.

[00:51:34] You know, we wanted it to feel realistic in that way. I saw a quote from him where he said, even more specifically, we didn't want to Americanize the story which America found dead in a shallow grave. Put him there. Yep.

[00:51:50] And you know, the thing with his pre-production process, like you were saying, he's very prepared. He gets a big book. He puts photographs in them. He shows it to actors and talks to them about the photos and stuff like that. He doesn't storyboard though. So that's interesting. Repreparation.

[00:52:14] Budget was like a million pounds and they said most of it was spent on the apartment set? Yes. They lived in the flat for 10 days rehearsing, watching movies. Just three actors and Boyle. Yes. They watched The Grifters. They watched Goodfellas.

[00:52:32] They watched something called The Day I Believe. I don't know what that is. The quote I saw, I don't remember if it was from Eccleston or Fox, was the main thing we, Boyle wanted us to all live together so we could learn about each other.

[00:52:42] And the main thing we learned about each other for 10 days was that we didn't like each other very much. One billion pounds as you said. Not one billion, one million. One billion would be a bit of an inflated budget for this film. Dr. Evil over here.

[00:52:56] That would be kind of like, did someone walk away with some money? That butt is nice. It's nice. It's fucking nice. These days I'm going to go for a billion dollar housing market as it is. It meant they could cast who they wanted.

[00:53:12] They wanted the female character to be an outsider so they cast not Scottish. They cast Carrie Fox, obviously we all know from New Zealand she's in Angel at My Table. Oh shit.

[00:53:25] Ewan McGregor had been in a Dennis Potter, I think a TV movie called Lipstick on Your Collar. Uh huh. Where he's young and pretty. I mean look at him. Yeah, it kind of sucks how hot he is in this movie. Does it? Does it suck?

[00:53:45] Kind of sucks. Carrie Fox. He has charms coming out of his eardrums. It is absurd how much of a star he is in this. Ewan, the hair alone. You're just like get this guy whatever he wants. Yeah.

[00:54:00] Eccleson had been in this movie called Let Him Have It which is this very good British movie about a person who is hanged. Okay. Essentially for yelling let him have it during the commission of a crime and he was probably mentally challenged in some sort of way.

[00:54:19] It was crazy that the British government executed him. A sort of social realist film where Eccleson gives this very committed performance. Eccleson is also a Manchurian? Yes, he's from Manchester so he's not Scottish either. Ewan's the only Scot here.

[00:54:33] Eccleson I think is from Salford which is another suburb of Manchester. But Carrie Fox is far and away the most established of the three because she's been in a proper… I would say so, right?

[00:54:44] Movie. And then the other two guys are like theater and have done TV films basically, right? Essentially. The only major movie Eccleson has done is Let Him Have It and that's like a small English film. And he'd done some TV. He's in Cracker. Do you know Cracker?

[00:54:59] Robbie Coltrane, correct? He's one of the guys in Cracker. Ewan is this young pretty guy. He was in that surfing movie. What's the surfing? Let me look it up. He was in like the Scottish Blue Crush. Right, it was called Blue Juice.

[00:55:17] And Catherine Zier Jones is in it. But even that I think comes out after Shallow Grave. He's nobody. But these two guys are basically just sort of like tapped as like these are probably future leading men.

[00:55:26] And as you say, Fox is the closest thing to… They didn't test her. Like they tested the guys. They didn't need to test her because she'd been an angel at my table. And Robert Carlyle was the original choice for McGregor's part.

[00:55:41] And I think he didn't make sense for it. He would have been too severe for this, I think. And he's not a yuppie. He can't do yuppie the way that Ewan… Ewan put that sweater on him. His hair is all feathery.

[00:55:58] You're like, yeah, that's who this guy is. It's fascinating because Eccleston has such an extreme face, right? Just what a crazy guy. Right. No wonder he's played a million villains in Hollywood.

[00:56:12] Yes. And even something like when he played the doctor, it was sort of pointedly casting against type and playing with his menacing energy. Right? And then having him play this intellectual benevolent, you know… You know what Ewan McGregor's major connection at this point is to the movie industry?

[00:56:31] His uncle is Wedge Antilles? Yes. His uncle is Dennis Lawson, who is Wedge in Star Wars, but he's also in like… He's in Local Hero. He's in a ton of British movies and TV. Ultimate Nepo Baby. Oh yeah, Ewan. Embarrassing. Nepo Nephew, let's say.

[00:56:47] That's my new pitch to Vulture. The Nepo Nephews. Yes, drag them. Ewan dropped out of school at 16. What I was going to say just before we move on… Eccleston, as opposed to Carlisle, let's say, and I know they were up for different roles, right?

[00:57:02] Eccleston's face is so extreme and yet you are surprised at the beginning of this movie how well they were able to style him. To sort of soften him. I don't know if you could ever do that to Carlisle.

[00:57:14] Not in the way this movie needs, in my opinion. Although I love Robert Carlisle. Yes. Keith Allen, who plays the roommate, and obviously he is also in Transponding… As a drug dealer. Perhaps the same drug dealer.

[00:57:29] Possibly the same character. At this point is known. He's quite well known in Britain. Sort of like a comedy guy, mostly. And so I think that's part of the casting with him is when he shows up you definitely are not like, this guy will be dead in 10 minutes.

[00:57:44] Right. He's the biggest name in the movie, or at least the most well-known face. And you're like, am I going to see this guy's soft penis anytime soon? And you know, you are. All inchworm.

[00:57:59] Keith Allen, as I also mentioned in the next episode, Lily Allen's dad. Also Alfie Allen's dad. Speaking of NACPO babies. Crappy dad though. Apparently Keith Allen loved being naked in front of the whole crew.

[00:58:12] Most actors want as few crew around as possible and take their clothes off at the last possible second. Keith was naked in the breaks, sitting around smoking. He's a guy who's got a tricky reputation, right? I think so.

[00:58:23] People were angry at Lily Allen for pushing back on the NACPO baby thing. Not that we need to fucking litigate this, but it's like a well-known fact that he had multiple trouble with multiple women and did not raise any of them. Yeah, he's definitely right.

[00:58:36] Yes, he has like six kids by four women and he's one of those guys in Britain who's always getting in trouble. Yeah, like most of his kids have met him twice.

[00:58:46] Look, what's important is that you should put out a statement in response to the NACPO baby article if you are a NACPO baby. That's the thing. That's the best way to deal with it. That will diffuse the situation and no one is going to get upset at you.

[00:59:00] Yes, no, that's always the best. Just a wide statement. Everyone should comment on everything all the time. My thing with Jamie Lee Curtis, and then we can stop talking about this, is like I feel like she's just kind of like, I don't care.

[00:59:12] I'm Jamie Lee Curtis. I can throw myself in front of this. You know, I'm not like some of these guys where it's like, why are you famous? She's like, look, I'm Jamie Lee Curtis. Even if people get mad at me for a year, I'm still Jamie Lee.

[00:59:23] Jamie Lee Curtis in interviews for years, we need to stop talking about this, has always said like, it was down to me and another girl and I'm absolutely sure I got the part because I was the daughter of the one from Psycho.

[00:59:34] I've never denied for a second that that gave me an advantage. So she put out a statement. No one should ever talk about anything. Everyone should get off of social media. Why are you doing a podcast right now? It's over. Last episode.

[00:59:46] John Hodges in the movie briefly. He likes to use his screenwriters in movies. Yes, yes. Although he says he could never persuade Alex Garland to do it, who he did many movies with. Yeah. He's a guy.

[01:00:03] A film shot in Glasgow, set in Edinburgh, much like the train spotting, which did the same thing. They got a little bit of money because they shot in Glasgow. Almost everything set in the apartment. They use, like you said, you know, that's their big thing.

[01:00:17] They spent 10 days doing exteriors and they made a blood pact that once they were done with that, they wouldn't go back. I thought Will and his blood pact, we'll talk about this in the next episode too. Yes, you're right. Yeah. The train spotting has a good blood pact.

[01:00:31] And Eccleston, you know, got freaked out by the mortuary scene. He didn't want to get pushed into the locker. We're talking the final bit, right? The thing I read was that... I would also not like that.

[01:00:47] Yes. The thing I read was that there's like another open whatever the fuck you call it chamber above him. Right. When they opened the door, it's like two stacked on top of each other. That they had like a crew guy... Going there with them. A monk essentially.

[01:01:03] To like assure him so that when they closed the door, he could like recite to him like, you're gonna be fine. They're gonna open the door. We're not gonna be stuck in here.

[01:01:11] They ran out of money. The last day of filming is the scene where the policeman comes to interview them. And they had to sell most of the set, like the furniture to get enough money to buy enough celluloid to film that scene. That is pretty cool.

[01:01:27] They asked for like a little bit more money and Channel 4 was like no. So they were like, I guess we're selling this furniture. But the apartment is such a cool set. Yes. Right? The flat. Yes. I should say. Inspired by Edward Hopper paintings. Yeah. And Caravaggio apparently.

[01:01:44] And, you know, I think the set is like the big, the secret star of this movie. Yeah. Like when Eccleson's going up to the attic, you get where he's going. You know what I mean? Just like the geography of the sets really clever.

[01:01:57] Ben, you've never seen Margaret, right? I have not.

[01:02:01] And I think that's because you can tell a movie that was actually shot in real New York apartments because every angle is like an angle of necessity of like, oh, this thing is built like this and there's only one corner and the shots are this tight or whatever.

[01:02:14] Yeah. And you immediately feel the difference between that and any movie or show you've seen that's set in New York, but they built an apartment. Totally.

[01:02:23] And it's like you have to build these weird dimensions that end up on screen looking like a pretty nice apartment, but allow you the flexibility to actually be able to put the camera in different places. Yeah. Anyway, go on.

[01:02:33] Yeah. No, I say let's talk about the plot, right? Yeah. I mean, you know. Opening of the film is... Christopher Eccleston delivering a monologue to the camera. Quite clever of this movie. Yes. It's a pretty good trick. Camera spinning. Because he's dead. Yes. We don't know that. No.

[01:02:53] Spoilers for viewers. You think he's in bad shape. He looks pallid. That's true. But still, I feel like the first time I watched this movie, I definitely was, you know, fooled. Oh, I... Yes. No, did not see it coming.

[01:03:05] And, you know, he's delivering this little monologue about friendship, your friends. Choose life. And the first chunk of this movie is him and his flatmates. He's David. His flatmates are Alex. That's Ewan. And Juliet. That's Carrie Fox.

[01:03:23] I related a lot to Ewan McGregor in this movie, by the way. Why? Because he keeps saying, David! David! David! David! And they need a new flatmate. Although, like... Do they? I don't know. I guess they have a spare room, right? In their giant apartment. Yeah.

[01:03:40] They all seem to be doing fine. They all seem to be doing fine. Because, like, Ewan is a journalist, Juliet's a doctor, and David's like an accountant or whatever. Like, why do they even live together? These guys are probably... It is a nice apartment. Yeah.

[01:03:53] So I guess you want to keep it going. This is one of these things where I'm like, how do they even know each other? They probably went to university together or something. Like, that would be the vibe, I would assume. Yeah. Like, they're like uni friends.

[01:04:05] They seem to have a nice, like, living dynamic together. They sit down to have dinner. Yeah. They drink wine together. They're little sweeties. They cook for each other. I mean, I think it's like... It's just that they're little bitches to everyone else. They have a good relationship. Yeah.

[01:04:19] And then they're, you know, they're having so much fun interviewing all the flatmates. Being mean. Yeah, but I feel like it's also that they are like, we are cool. Yes. You know, British, Scottish, you know, intellectuals. This is the 90s. We are not fuddy-duddies.

[01:04:35] And a lot of the people they're interviewing, they see as, like, fuddy-duddies. The guy with the red hair is a real wanker. Yeah, where they're just like, we're cooler than this guy. We can, like, pick him apart. You know?

[01:04:44] That's cool kids table vibes. You can't bring our... I mean, David. Yes. David, David! I'm sure you've experienced this as well where, like, they were the fucking New York fucks. And you go to, like, some house party at some apartment, some loft in Brooklyn in, like, 2008.

[01:05:03] And you'd be like, was there a central casting call for roommates? Like, you have... There's an aesthetic. There's a vibe to this apartment that feels like it is extended to who is allowed to live here. A little bit. Yes. Yeah.

[01:05:16] You know? I just immediately recognized these types of people and their whole thing. Have you ever... I mean, it continues. Ben, have you ever... It's evolved as far as the Brooklyn roommate goes. Yeah.

[01:05:30] Where it's like that meme where it's like someone named Grass can't wash the dishes because, you know, it's like emotionally they're unable to... Come on. You don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know this meme. You don't know this meme. It sounds funny when you describe it.

[01:05:43] It is funny and attractive. Have you ever done the thing, Griffin? Because I did this when I moved to New York where you're like, you know, looking at listings on Craigslist and applying to be a roommate.

[01:05:53] Like, I had no money to my name and I had, like, barely any credit so I couldn't, like, get my own apartment. So instead I was, like, visiting apartments that needed... It was exactly this. That needed a roommate.

[01:06:04] And then you're doing the kind of thing of, like, they're showing you around, obviously, but also you're like, am I impressing them? Like, with, like... Yeah. Am I a roommate material? You never did this, I feel like. No, I guess I did. I only ever lived with friends.

[01:06:21] Right. Whereas I lived with strangers my first two apartments. I had the same roommate for, like, nine years basically. Well, we love... Soap opera. And then I had two other one-year situations but both of them were with... You knew the people. Childhood friends.

[01:06:37] I do think I looked at places like that but... It was just the stress of, like, oh, I'm not cool. I think that's why I then pivoted to...

[01:06:46] Like, I remember I saw this one apartment on Avenue B and it was this girl and it was clearly one of those things where she was like, this is my bedroom, that's your bedroom, we would need to walk through your bedroom to go to the bathroom.

[01:06:57] And I was like, okay. Because clearly the bedroom was probably supposed to be a living room or whatever. And then she was like, we like to party a lot. And I was like, all right. Cool.

[01:07:07] But I was just immediately, I was like, they're not going to pick David Sims. I don't think David Sims is going to be the one they want to walk through his room to get to the bathroom. You know, you just wanted to look cool.

[01:07:18] And instead sometimes you meet a real, you know, Juliet, Alex and David. Yeah, there's also something to the fact that they're like three different types. Yes. Go on. How do I even put this? I mean, David and Alex are definitely different types. Yes.

[01:07:35] You know, Juliet's the girl, but she's kind of also the smartest one. Right. Like the most whatever. She's sort of the boss. The fact that they have like, like, uh. David's more serious and Alex is more silly. Yeah. Eccleston is more serious. They each have their own vibe.

[01:07:51] When you cut to that shot of the three of them in the chairs, their sort of side of the interview, it does almost feel like they're cartoon characters or something. I know what you mean. They're like three designed, you know? Um, Hugo, Keith Allen shows up. Sure.

[01:08:08] And he's like, hold on. And I feel like immediately that Ewan's whole thing is he's like, well, this guy's cooler and scarier than me. I want him to be my roommate. Right. Like, he's like, this guy's got me beat. He's the one guy who alphas them. Yeah.

[01:08:20] And I think they like that the idea of him living with them seems to give them more edge. Right. It's like, oh, let's pick this. This is a swerve for us. Right. Not like the sort of busy buddy who goes to work every day. Yes. This mysterious weirdo.

[01:08:31] He's got a great. Who likes to be dick out on set in between takes. Oh, bloody. What? What's up? Got a great look. He does have a good look. He's got this like sort of like car coat, I think is what they call it.

[01:08:42] Like that mid-length kind of like leather jacket. He looks like a tough, cool guy that I would want to have a pint with down at the pub. And when they're like, hey, buddy, you want to play Scrabble Creek? Oh, dead from drugs. Money on bed. Yes.

[01:09:02] Now we've covered a simple plan. Is there anything else we've covered like this? Great question. What would you do? Because Ben's response to simple plan, plain full of money was like pocket the money. Don't get caught. Easy. Bingo. Bango. No problem. Sugar in the gas tank.

[01:09:20] If I'm in that movie, it ends with me on an island. So shallow grave. Like here's what I would do. You know, 911 ambulance, please. Dead man in my house. Absolutely. Because here's the thing the characters in these movies never think about. Always more complicated.

[01:09:38] Why would he have so much money? He definitely didn't just save it. It's not his pocket money. It's never like a one and done. So you wouldn't have the thought of like because what they do, obviously, they do two things. Yeah.

[01:09:50] They keep the money and they chop him into pieces and bury him in a shallow grave. Now, would you be tempted to call the ambulance? Hey, this guy died of a drug overdose in my house. Can you come deal with that? And they'd be like, great.

[01:10:05] And there was nothing else on the bed. And I'd be like, nope. Nope. Just him. And put the money in like my closet. Right. And then anytime I want a cheeky Nando's, just peel a tenner off. That's my nut. Sure. Right?

[01:10:19] Or even just take like a thousand off the top or something like that. Like do the classic like cops in a drug bus where they kind of stuff a few things in their vests. Right.

[01:10:28] I think I'm enough of a worry wart that I would be too terrified to even be sweating those bills. The money. Yes. Right. Who knows when push comes to shove what I would do in that exact situation?

[01:10:39] I could say with 100 percent confidence, I would not chop up the body. That is a thing I would never do. Yeah. Absolutely. Any temptation I would have money wise would never lead me to, well, time to cut some bones. I would say this actually.

[01:10:57] I don't think there's any amount of money that would lead me to cut up a body like they do. This movie makes it look so unpleasant. Now I've never seen a movie that makes it look fun. Right.

[01:11:09] It's not one of those things that I think would be easy. No. Easy breezy. Bingo bingo. I think that's why he's doing a very good job playing the displeasure of it. He plays displeasure well. Yeah. But it really does seem like an awful day's work.

[01:11:23] I guess it's like they do have, she works at the hospital. Yeah. So she's got that and it is pretty cool. That kind of like, look, hospital has an incinerator. You know? Yes. Like I'll just chuck some stuff in there. Hands and legs. Yeah.

[01:11:37] But the some stuff is the part. You know, it's even like, look, I wouldn't want to carry around a full dead body. But if the task was, if you can get this full dead body to the incinerator, we're in the clear. But they don't do that. No. No.

[01:11:50] Cut it up. I don't think there's any circumstances under which I would cut up a body. Like if I Robert. This is what I'm saying. Roger or Robert Durst. I already forgot. David, thank you. I was about to bring this up. Is it Robert? Robert Durst.

[01:12:01] If I Robert Durst-ed someone where I accidentally killed someone. I'm putting accidentally in quotes there. You know, Durst's response was like, well, I guess I'll chop up this body. Do you remember this part of the story? He got off for this. He got quit it.

[01:12:14] I kind of don't. I kind of don't. He was already under suspicion for a murder that had happened maybe a decade earlier. Yes. If not two, I can't remember if this was. No, this was number two. It's because his wife was the initial.

[01:12:28] At this point, it was only the wife. Right. But had been a suspect. Right. And had maybe sort of narrowly avoided, uh, you know, uh, conviction. Getting caught. Thank you. Yeah. Um, his claim was I got into a fight with my landlord who was my downstairs neighbor. Yes.

[01:12:52] This is when he's like living in Texas. Yes. Correct. In the middle of the fight, he took out a gun, threatened to shoot me and then accidentally shot himself.

[01:13:01] I had nothing to do with his death, but here I am alone in a room with a dead body and I'm already under suspicion for a previous murder. What am I supposed to do if not chop it and dump it in the ocean or whatever?

[01:13:15] And they were like, why wouldn't you call 911? And he's like, well, if they find me here with a dead body, don't think that I did it. So the less suspicious thing to do is take a bone saw and separate it into 10 different garbage bags.

[01:13:29] Obviously, I believe he, he got off on murder. He pleaded guilty. But he was like, yes, I absolutely did chop and dispose of the body. I believe he was like maybe found guilty of evidence tampering, which was hard to disprove because you chopped the body up.

[01:13:41] But I remember that was one of those things where like the forensic guy was like, that guy knew how to chop a body. Yeah. No, like that wasn't like an amateur job. No. Like anyway, um, if I'm in that situation, the Durst situation, 911 please. Absolutely.

[01:13:55] Dead man in house. Yes. I'm not going to lie. But Ben, would you keep them? Did you take the money? I would skim off the top. Yes. Just for sure. Nando's. Yeah, definitely. Well, I would, I mean, cause like I would take like a couple of stacks. Yeah.

[01:14:10] What are the cops know? You know what I mean? Nothing like they could have cut that in half and still called. That's what I felt like. I felt like the mistake was they were obviously too greedy, but like this was an opportunity

[01:14:22] to, yeah, take a good amount of that money and still get away with it. I'm clever. Just all on the same page, which is team. Never chop up a body. Never, never ever would I do that?

[01:14:33] Uh, and I just want to also mention there is another movie that is in this wheelhouse which is the killing and I still stand by that. I think I could have pulled off the heist.

[01:14:43] The thing with the killing is that it's a lot of personalities at play there too. You're dealing with a lot of guys who are like, I'm really down on my luck. I do anything for this and you're like, well, I don't want to be associated with someone

[01:14:54] with that energy. You know what I mean? Yeah. I want someone just like, I'm a professional. I do this all the time and if I don't get the money, that's okay. I'm fine. Yes. I'm set.

[01:15:03] Not someone who's like, oh Jesus, my wife's going to kill me if I don't get my 10 grand. Flop set sweat thrillers. Yeah. Movies like this stress me out so much where they're like, it's easy. It's easy. It's a perfect plan.

[01:15:14] It's one step and then we're in the clear and you're like, okay, but it's a minute 15 and this movie is 100 minutes long. What if you actually, you check the time? There's only 20 minutes in this movie.

[01:15:24] And the next movie is the next scene is just them being like, ha ha ha ha. The rest of the movie is just they move into a nicer apartment and host dinner parties. Nothing ever catches up to them.

[01:15:34] Before the devil knows you're dead is another one where I'm just like, just stacking bad decisions atop one another to constantly think like, if we just do this, then we'll be fine. Yeah. Just one more move and then we're fine.

[01:15:46] But this, I like that it's less about them trying to outrun and more about how much it breaks their brains. What I love about it is yes, you're seeing you're cutting to these guys who are looking for the money, but they're just fucking other people up. Yes.

[01:16:01] And it's just kind of Danny Boyle's being like, that's the tsunami. It's 50 miles away. Yeah. But you know, that'll hit them eventually. Right. But when we're coming to them, they don't know that that's happening. They're just bougie little fucks. Yeah. Who are like, yeah, well, we did that.

[01:16:15] We can do anything. And they're not even spending the money. Well, they go to some New Year's like uptight like party and they're not having a good time at all. Clearly. I mean, it's like you're not even doing a good job with this guy. So here's my question.

[01:16:30] Who's fucking here? Great question, because there's this early scene where you ever mentioned Carrie Fox sits out. Right. Where, where it seems to imply that no one's fucking. Exactly. But she's kind of doing this power move because you and being a little shit. Yeah.

[01:16:44] And she's like hanging on the bathroom door with her mail or whatever. Oh, right. Because she's got like a note from a lover that he's like reading aloud. Yeah. And she like opens the door naked and like grabs it. Right. And that shuts him up.

[01:16:56] And it's like one of those things where you're like, ooh, this is like saucy roommate stuff. Right. Where like, but like no one, there's no romantic element. No. Specifically. I found the tenor of that scene to me reads as this is not the first time he's seen her

[01:17:06] naked, but also it has never been in a sexual capacity. Yeah. And, and she knows it. And that's why he's shutting up because she's like, shut up. Right. Fuck you. I fuck who I want, not you.

[01:17:16] I would say based on their relationships and, and how they kind of unfold, it seems like theirs is like less sexual than the other two. Because there's like the moment where they're very drunk and cross-dressing. That's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I was getting to. Right.

[01:17:31] Where they do have this kind of brother sister thing or whatever, but also, yeah, you know, it's like they're messing around. It's blurry. But also the way that Carrie Fox is able to weaponize her sexuality against Eccleston

[01:17:42] in her own defense makes me think that she has not pulled that ripcord before. Right. Well, he's the more straight and narrow one, right? So maybe, yeah. Like he doesn't call her outside the lines like they do.

[01:17:53] There's a moment at actually I just referenced this at the, at the New Year's party where they're dancing and she's swinging Ewan, Ewan, Ewan? Ewan. Ewan. Around. And he falls to the ground.

[01:18:08] And there's a shot of him, you know, perspective looking up at her and you can kind of see this a little bit of her dress. And I said out loud, Hachi Machi. Oh, you said that out loud? I did. Because she-

[01:18:22] Were you sitting in your lounge in the 50s when you did that? I was. I was in my den. In a vinyl chair? Uh-huh. Your rumpus room? That's correct. We're wearing a satin smoking jacket. I was. Hachi Machi! Did Nelly punch you on the arm? She did. Good.

[01:18:45] What does Eccleston want with this fucking money? Obviously he draws a short straw, that's why he has to chop it up. But like, he doesn't even have any fun. No. At least they have stupid fun. That's the thing. I mean, he's fundamentally kind of a joyless guy. Yeah.

[01:19:00] Right? It feels like. And I get that it's good to have that roommate. It's good to have the roommate who kind of keeps the clocks running in the house, right? Absolutely. Would you be surprised to hear that was never me? That wasn't you? No.

[01:19:14] Oh no, you weren't the one who was like, hey, we kind of need to figure out who cleans the bathroom when. Really appreciate the value of having an Eccleston at the home. Here's a funny thing about me. Same. Well, I was that person. But I would, at times.

[01:19:31] Sure. But I would say I was never the best in that room. You're verse. I'm more verse than you two. Yeah. But I'm more the social chair, like in a room, in a house. Like, I would be the social chair. Yeah, but I'd also say.

[01:19:44] The one who's kind of like making plans and like having people over. You are the Eccleston in the structure of this podcast being rubbed. Yes, I am. But maybe that's a suggestion that this podcast is somewhat unevenly balanced. I don't know about that.

[01:19:57] I'll never forget when I told Fran your birthday. It was your birthday. Okay. And I said to Fran, it's Griffin's birthday. And she's like, he's a Pisces? And I was like, I guess so. She was like, they're all water signs, David. That's why it's so hard.

[01:20:12] And I was like, yes. But I didn't think about it until then. Two water signs. You know who else has a water sign? My daughter. Yep. Yes, it's true. Have a fun one. Anyway, Eccleston is kind of, I just feel for him.

[01:20:25] He just doesn't even, you know, he chopped off some arms and legs. And he didn't even get to have like a fun evening. I think this guy sucks. He does suck. He is the one that's the most suspicious. I think that's his own doing. Because it's like...

[01:20:40] I feel no pity for him. Do you feel pity for anyone in this movie? Not really, right? No, but I enjoy the others. And they're silly. And so that almost, there's more logic to them doing something so insane. Yeah.

[01:20:56] Where you're like, ah, these people are like arrogant and kind of ridiculous. Yeah. Eccleston, you're like, you should know better. What the fuck is wrong with you? And the second, of course, that's why for me it does track that he goes paranoid. Sure.

[01:21:09] Because he's the one who's just, his brain is like, wait a second. This is going to come back to haunt me. Why would this guy have money? There are people who must want it. Like, right? He immediately starts figuring out, like, no, I'm just in trouble.

[01:21:21] In a weird way, the movie that this reminded me of, obviously a far more recent movie, but one I had seen before this, is the comedy, the Rick Albertine movie. Ooh. Which is a bleak movie. That's a bleak. Very bleak.

[01:21:36] That makes Shallow Grave look like fucking Disney compared to the comedy. Oh, absolutely. But it's similarly about these sort of rich, disaffected... Yes. Sort of like needing to find some challenge in their lives. Like creating conflict. Apology for the crude word, but this is a British miniseries.

[01:21:53] Cunts, you might call them. Hey now. Yeah. But in the comedy, they are obviously, those are people where you're like, oh, they never had a job. Like, they've always had money because of whatever. Trust fund babies. Their families.

[01:22:05] And the conflicts they're creating are more like small scale social disasters. But it is that same kind of thing of like, I need to create danger in my life because my life is so insulated. I mean, that movie is very interesting.

[01:22:19] I haven't seen it since it came out and I remember being very arrested by it when I saw it. But obviously, that movie really poses the challenge of like, can you stick with this when you really hate everybody? Yeah.

[01:22:30] Whereas in Shallow Grave, you're like, you know, I might not like any of these guys, but their demise is accelerating so quickly that I'm compelled just by that. Right? You know, this is a crime movie. He's got, right, the sort of B-Noir hook to it.

[01:22:43] I mean, there were some review I saw that said like, the magic of this movie is that it takes what is like kind of a very traditional American 50s B-Noir plot and marries it to an essential 90s Britishness. It puts it in a milieu. And like social satire.

[01:23:02] Yes. Like modern British social satire. Like, watch these yuppies get their due. Cultural setting that you're not used to with this sort of plot. Yeah. So we're sort of seeing their relationship disintegrate. And then at the same time, we're seeing these sort of like violent guys.

[01:23:19] It's, you know, Peter Mullen and the other guys. The great Peter Mullen. Leonard O'Malley. We love Peter Mullen. Yeah. And if Peter Mullen comes knocking at your door, that is worrisome. You don't want that guy showing up.

[01:23:30] And they're beating the fuck out of people looking for this money. Look, he's one of the best actors alive. He's incredible. Have you ever seen My Name Is Joe? No. You would really like that movie. That's a Ken Loach movie as well.

[01:23:41] But he won Ken Best Actor for it where he plays an alcoholic. I'm familiar with it. It's such a good movie. Yeah. But he's a great actor and a great filmmaker. Great filmmaker in his own right. But yes.

[01:23:51] No, the way they set this up, I think is kind of ingenious. But the sort of cross-cutting to these acts of like violent interrogation. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not understanding what the relation is until the threads start to come together of

[01:24:10] these guys are looking for the man they just killed. Right. And so these guys are going to end up on our lead's doorstep sooner or later. And then there's this sort of separate thing where the flap below them gets broken into, the cops show up.

[01:24:24] That kind of sets everyone on edge. Sure. Even though it has nothing to do with them, right? Well, I was kind of thinking it was— Yeah, that was my read too. That's them looking for them? Correct. And then they just go to the wrong floor.

[01:24:35] They miss the floor. Right, that was my read. Yeah, that's probably true. Yeah. But then just the interaction with the cops where they're like, Yep, there's three roommates. No fourth roommates! And the cops are like, we weren't asking about a fourth roommate.

[01:24:45] And it's like, well, you shouldn't because they don't exist and they never have. Never had one. And you can't check. You know, which is what I— Again, if some detective was at my door and was like, what's your name? And I'd be like, I don't know.

[01:24:57] What's your name? You know, I would just immediately crumble. You know what's low-key maybe the most psycho decision they make in this movie? What's that? That they just kind of like sit on the dead body for a couple days and go like, Well, let's not rush to any—

[01:25:09] Yeah, sure. They just show them opening the door a couple times a week. If you're sitting on it for more than a few hours, you kind of do have to chop it up. Because at a certain point, it's like, you don't want to do the call.

[01:25:21] But they're like, let's just all sleep on and come back to this tomorrow. It feels like they take a couple days before someone even really pitches a plan. Sometimes dishes can sit in the sink for weeks. You know what I mean? I guess they're thinking to themselves like,

[01:25:35] Well, we still could plausibly be like, I don't know, man. He was in his room. We didn't check. We don't know the guy. Yeah, but at that point— No, I agree. You're almost in too deep because then 911 comes, they start asking questions, and you're lying about the timeline. 100%.

[01:25:51] Even if you haven't done anything wrong. This is why you just pick up the phone when you find a dead body. It's too complicated. David, Christopher Eccleston. David. David makes the decision to take the suitcase, move into the attic, drill holes in the floor. Normal. Normal. Good.

[01:26:09] Looks good. I love the lighting scheme. I love what he's done with the place. Really nice up here. Definitely will chill you out to be up there. Right. This is the beauty of casting Eccleston is, oh, right. It takes very little work to make him look demonic.

[01:26:23] Yeah, he looks like the— And also, he's just got the body of like Gary Oldman is the spider monster in Lost in Space, right? He's got this spindly Frankenstein body. Yes. And so he's like— Future Smith. Yeah, Future Smith.

[01:26:35] Him kind of crouched on the floor, peeping through the peep holes. Yeah. This is bad peeping. Oh, real bad. If my roommate did that, I would not trust them. I would move out. I thought you were going to go that far, but you instead just—

[01:26:49] Well, that's what I think is funny, that they're just like, I guess he lives up there now, right? You know? Well, he's got the money too. He does have the money. He does. I still might be like, you know what? I'm going to go home for a—

[01:27:00] I'm going to go see my parents. Yeah. Eccleston moved into the attic. He's drilling holes. I'm going to get the fuck out of here. But they just sort of hang out and he's just up there. Well, I think it's like, you know,

[01:27:10] they're all already starting to mull over how can I be the only one with the money? But I think that's a good point. Like, he gets angry when he comes home and they bought the camera, right? Yes. How dare you spend this money?

[01:27:22] How dare you go around spending the money? Right. Now, here's a key difference. They're having fun. They are having fun. He seems to get no joy in life from anything. And it's like for him the value of the money is having the stack of money.

[01:27:34] Like, it almost feels like he has nothing that he wants to spend it on. There is no pleasure that he can derive from the use of the money. It is truly just having the money. It's like fucking Gollum with the ring or something.

[01:27:49] And I think that's what I would do. I would be too afraid to spend it. Well, you're a money monster. I am a money monster. And I guess I would just be like, well, at least it's there. Just patting my suitcase of money. At least it's there.

[01:28:03] No, I like my plan of cheeky Nandos. Yeah. Right? The old thing of like, you know what? You just continue to live your life. And then once in a while you peel off a bill. Go do something fun.

[01:28:13] As long as you don't go buy a fur coat or whatever. Here's my pick. I'd buy a fancy car with cash. Here's my pitch. Scrooge McDuck, but with paper money. This was the thing I never fucking got about Scrooge. Why is this guy so heavy into coins?

[01:28:27] If he wants to take a lap. Let me throw something at you. But you can't really swim. Like, paper won't hold you up. You can swim better than you could in coins. Two things. One, you can't swim in coins either. Oh, you can swim in coins.

[01:28:38] I can swim in coins! You shut the fuck up! Easy. Easy. Two, paper cuts. Uh oh. Yeah, as opposed to what? Fucking copper cuts? Again, I'm not pro coin pool either. It's a punch up from coin to paper. Yeah. I mean, it's a fair question. I don't know.

[01:29:00] Here's the thing. We gotta go right to the root, right? We need to develop a softer currency. Oh, like a sort of, right, nice squishy fluffy currency? Yeah. Like a sort of a velvet maybe? What are those fidget toys? The Pop'Em? You know those, the new fidget toys

[01:29:15] that the kids are obsessed with where it's like rubber and you pop the things? Yeah, my daughter has a bunch of those. Yeah. That's what money should be made out of. I call it her dimple. I think it's called a dimple. Yeah, I want dimple dollars.

[01:29:24] Yeah, that used to be, you know, 20 minutes in the car. I just go like this. Well. Some guy, the guys show up. Okay. David kills them with a hammer. Bad move. Because now the guy just seems to like murder

[01:29:39] or at the very least has made it part of his regular rotation of solutions Here's what I would do. Yeah. And I love how this is what this episode is turning into. Yeah. They'd show up and be like, where's the money? I'd be like, right here. Yeah.

[01:29:55] Please relieve me of this terrible burden. Yes. It clearly has driven me mad. Horrible mistakes. Now maybe they're like, all right, we'll take the money and you have to die. You know, that's the coin flip there. Sure. But, you know, maybe they're just like, great, thanks.

[01:30:10] Here's the thing that I've always said. Murder a slippery slope. I think you do it once becomes a lot easier to do a second time. And that's the real scary part. Yeah. It's not great. No.

[01:30:23] And so that's when the, you know, that's when things get from bad to worse. That's when it's over. Right? When he kills those guys and then adds them to the shallow grave. When the second guy falls down the stairs.

[01:30:34] Like this movie is, it's a hard watch at times. It's interesting because like, it's interesting to me that it's an 18, which is the highest rating in Britain because it's not that violent. But it's really, but those little moments are very shocking.

[01:30:46] I also think it's, it's the nihilism of the thing. A hundred percent. I think I, I view that rating as a, we cannot let young people watch this morally. Do you have the criterion? I do. Yes. Love that cover with all the tools. It's beautiful.

[01:31:02] Have you seen that? I'll show it to you. And there's a, there's a Kevin Macdonald documentary making of. Oh, that's cool. From the production of the film that I believe is like his first credit as a documentary filmmaker. That's interesting.

[01:31:13] Kevin Macdonald who goes on to do Into the Void. Oh, that's like from the hardware store. That's cool. Really clever. Obviously the, the original poster was just a shovel on a grave. Sure. David, the score of this film. Ah. Simon Boswell's score.

[01:31:31] I think it is when they're first burying the pieces of the body in the shallow grave. And the score does this very intense like. And I was like, why does this sound so familiar? Tell me. It was the trailer music for Toy Story 2. I swear to you.

[01:31:51] That's really funny. Isn't that bizarre? And it's such an odd sting that sounds kind of generic. That when, for, look, I obviously watched the Toy Story 2 trailer once a week. I always assumed that was some just basic like royalty free trailer music library. Generic suspense.

[01:32:12] Like the Toy Story 2 trailer oddly treats the kidnapping of Woody like it is an Ashley Judd movie. And how it's presented. And they use. It's true. This really a desperate plan. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Look, I'm going to watch it later. Yeah.

[01:32:31] It goes from that to Danny Elfman's main Men in Black theme. Sure. To Hold On I'm Coming by Sam and Dave. Great. Just an odd collection. Three bangers. Yeah. Simon Boswell, he'd also done the score for The Crying Game. Yes. And so that's cool. I don't know.

[01:32:52] He's not a big, no offense to him, but he's not got a lot of. Sansa Sandgrey? I think he did the Yodorovsky movie as well. Yes, he did. That's a good score. Yeah. But, yeah, obviously he doesn't stick with Boyle.

[01:33:05] But it's everything in this movie is very accomplished given the like tiny budget. Like Brian Tufano, who also will shoot Trainspotting, who's like kind of just like a guy. Like he'd done so much. He's like a real old hand. He also shoots Life Less Ordinary.

[01:33:23] I think they finally split for The Beach. Okay. And then Masahiro Hirokubo is the editor. And he does Trainspotting. He does The Beach. Okay. Yeah. What were we talking about? Oh, yeah. He kills them with a hammer. Yeah. Sure. Yeah.

[01:33:45] You know, at that point, we're in the final act, right? Yeah. You know, that's when she buys a ticket to Rio. I really like that scene. Yes. Is it Tony Curran? Oh, yes. Yes. It's like one of his first – yes, it's Tony Curran.

[01:33:59] It's his first appearance in a movie. Yes. He's really good in Zillion Act. He's really good in Red Road, the Andrew Arnold movie. But like that scene where he's like, direct flight, 700 pounds or whatever. And she's like, great. And he's like, or – right? Isn't that the scene? Yeah.

[01:34:13] Yeah. And he starts like throwing other roots at her. And I feel the stress of her being like, we already got it. Like why are you throwing me more roots? I don't know. I really like that scene. Yeah.

[01:34:22] This is when she also tries to make the sort of – She does the seduction. Survivor-style strategic alliance with Eccleston to survive. Yes. Yes. And gets some money from him to buy the plane ticket. Yes. Yes.

[01:34:36] And Alex, as a journalist, is then sent to cover the story of three bodies are found in a shallow grave in the woods. Right. That's such a funny scene. And so that's when it's kind of like, okay. Like, you know, we're in the last stage of this.

[01:34:51] That's such a funny scene with this editor in the bathroom where he's like, three bodies found dead. And he's like, I know nothing about three bodies. He's like, yeah, I know. I'm assigning you to research. You're a journalist.

[01:35:02] Why are you acting – yes, you're the one who has to write the story. I only have two roommates. Yeah. Not three. Okay. You listen here. Another room is an office. It's so funny to be like, I haven't heard anything about that. Yeah, I know. You write the news.

[01:35:17] I'm telling you so you can report it and other people know about it. How does he realize that Juliet and David are sort of going against him? Because that's when the big fight breaks out. Yes.

[01:35:29] Like, I can't remember how he exactly puts it together, but they have the big confrontation that ends with Juliet stabbing, you know, Carrie stabbing Eccleston through the neck. After Eccleston stabs McGregor through the shoulder. Pinning him to the floor. Pinning him to the floor. Yes.

[01:35:47] Which is a great shot. Yes. The neck gag is pretty impressive. It is, right? For a movie of this budget. It's one of those things that really gets you. Yeah. Like if you're looking at it, you're like, oh, okay, sure. Yeah. It's fake. I get it. Right.

[01:36:01] But like the way that stage where it's suddenly him – I don't know. It just really works for me. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. And it doesn't look like a splatter movie gag. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, Carrie Fox makes the decision that I would make. Decisional leave.

[01:36:15] Yeah, like I'm not going to be like, all right, Ewan, let me help you with this knife in your shoulder. Right? Mm-hmm. I might at that point be like, you know what? I'm out of here. Sure. Right? Like –

[01:36:28] I mean, but did he do her wrong at any point? No. She's really like being pretty like callous and just – She is leaving him for dead. She is taking the money and running. Yes. Right. Which is generally frowned upon, to take the money and run.

[01:36:42] I don't think she's making the decision you would make in this situation. I can't even do that mental exercise because I would never get to this point. But that's why I'm interested by it. Whereas like, would I be like, let me get this knife out of your shoulder.

[01:36:52] Because I think I would just sort of be like, I don't even – I'm going to end up killing you or you're going to end up killing me. I'll do it by mistake or you'll do it on purpose. I can't relate to –

[01:37:01] I would just so obviously be the McGregor in this situation that I can't relate – You would self-shoulder stuff. I'd just be pinned and I'd charge the cops and be like, I'm the victim, I guess. Well, that's the thing.

[01:37:11] I feel like if they got together and really made sure they had a good alibi, all of the kinks worked out, they could have gotten away with the money together. Yeah, but they're assholes. Yeah. I love movies that end with person – Blanket. Huh? Blanket. Blanket?

[01:37:30] I love movies blanket, thank you. Go on. Oh, I love movies blanket, thank you. You're right. I'm so sorry. I thought you were saying that end with blanket and I was like, hmm. I mean I do love a nice blanket, comfy. Yeah.

[01:37:40] But movies that end with like, I'm fucked, I guess I'll just move forward anyway. Like she opens the briefcase, there's no money, and she's like, well, I'll just get on the plane. Right, it's just all the newspaper. It's the copies of the paper reporting the three bodies.

[01:37:56] That's how he's screwing her. Yes. Pusher, I just watched Nicholas Winding Reference, Pusher. Oh, sure. That ends with, spoiler alert, the character being like, I'm probably going to my death right now, but I guess I'm just gonna do it. And you don't see it. Trainspotting somewhat similar.

[01:38:10] Trainspotting has a bit of that. There was another one I was just thinking of. I mean, the killing kind of has that. Yeah. You know, they're kind of like, well, might as well go this way, even though it's over. Toy Story 2. Uh-huh. And he's gonna grow up.

[01:38:23] Might as well go this way towards his end of his adolescence. That's an OUISI saying. I guess she's just like, what's her plan at that point? I'll just go to Brazil, be wanted for murder. Yeah. Have no money, see if I can figure that out.

[01:38:39] But this is what I'm saying. Don't get to that point, baby. You think that's your takeaway? Look, if any— My takeaway is no mistakes made here. If I hold any sway with our listeners, heed my call. Do not murder.

[01:38:54] I just love the thing of, rather than me seeing crime paying or whatever, like the cops taking her away. Sure. Or the gangsters getting her or whatever. That she's just sort of like, I don't know.

[01:39:08] And I'm like, yeah, she's probably screwed, but I like the open-endedness of it. She's kind of fucked. She can never go back home. She's gonna be looking over her shoulder for the rest of her life. Yeah.

[01:39:16] And the cops find Alex pinned to the ground and grinning because he's got the cash on him. Laughing hysterically. That's how he screwed her. He stole the money already. Yeah. He's a cheeky bugger. Well, his intention is that he lives.

[01:39:29] But there seems to be people who misinterpret it as he is going to die. Yes. I think that's why they add that final voiceover, right? Because some audiences were confused that they thought he was dead too.

[01:39:43] I think maybe there was a shot initially where he just kind of was laying there glassy-eyed. Okay. Or it looked like he was laying there glassy-eyed. And he was like, ah, fuck, people aren't getting it. Well, let me look at the post-production here. The post-production also short.

[01:40:01] They edited it for six weeks. That's short. They have this really good soundtrack, which is obviously going to, that continues for all Bowling movies. Yes. Bowling likes music. Describes himself as a bit of a raver at the time. So you've got Andy Williams and Nina Simone.

[01:40:19] Not Nina Simon, right? Nina Simone. Nina Simone. Yeah. He wrote Simon here. JG, I'm sorry for dragging you. I didn't mean to. I was just confused. But also there's like those left field songs, which is like cool British house music from the 90s, right?

[01:40:32] I have a hard time picturing Danny Boyle at a rave. There's something so goofy about him. Pumping glow sticks. He's got a big fucking head. He's got like a big round head. I think he was... A bright smile.

[01:40:43] I think he was kind of cooler looking in the 90s, maybe? I mean, now I'm trying to find Danny Boyle on set of like, you know, Trainspotting or whatever. Yeah. Because he is fucking... I think he has a very open face. He's such a sweetie pie. Yeah.

[01:40:59] Anyway, the movie was funded by Channel 4. It was distributed by Polygram, which had just done Four Weddings and it had this huge success. Big crossover success. Exactly. He sees the movie at some test screening like where they're trying to... And he was like, this is mine. Polygram.

[01:41:17] Polygram wants this. They put it in Cannes. It premiered there. I think out of competition. It got kind of immediate lightning bolt response. It was one of those things where they thought they might be in competition in some form and then they were not.

[01:41:33] But Polygram squeezed like a midnight screening out of them. And then they had to add additional screenings. Right. And it took off. But it doesn't come... So that's in May 94. Doesn't come out in the UK until January 95. Wow. Comes out in America in February.

[01:41:50] Was a huge hit in Britain. Was a tiny thing in America. Highest grossing local film that year. It vanished in America. It was sold as a Hitchcock film there, says Boyle, which he thinks was a mistake.

[01:42:03] Whereas in Britain it was more sold as like this is a cool pop culture moment. You know what I mean? But that probably affects the way they so deliberately market Trainspotting. That they... 100%.

[01:42:15] The success of Trainspotting, which we'll get into the next episode, was so much them selling it as like this is a movement. Yes. This is the thing. Okay. This is what it was I was trying to find out.

[01:42:24] It was basically like we can sell this like an American movie. We don't need to sell this like some boring British thing. Like that it's a British film. Sure. Let's just sell it as a fucking movie, which is exactly what they did with Four Weddings as well.

[01:42:36] Because I guess there weren't cool British movies at that point. You're like it's either light comedies or... Or costume dramas. Yes. Right. And... Or like art house British films. Like Mike Lee or whatever where it's like this is a slice of life from another country.

[01:42:50] There was a working class neorealist library. Yeah. So, you know, like I said, the reviews were mostly positive but a little sneery about the sort of like this is a very MTV. Is this the British Tarantino? You know, like that kind of thing. Sure.

[01:43:05] Boyle says he finds that comparison embarrassing because he thinks they're very different. But he does say we do both love music. And he thinks like that's probably why people are making the comparison. Because we both like to have like vibrant soundtracks.

[01:43:20] But, you know, like just they had a little money. They had a decent script. They got some good actors. They built a cool set. They made a little movie. People liked it. Guarantor. It's a statement piece. Yeah. It's just a classic first movie.

[01:43:34] I wouldn't say this is the Guarantor. I'd say this is like this is the sort of calling card film and then Trainspotting is the Guarantor. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. And that's more just how it was done back then. You make the tiny movie.

[01:43:46] Then you get to make the little movie. We've covered some people on this show who have surprising just hit the ground running like great first movies. Yeah. And we cover people where their first movie feels like a rough draft of something. Right.

[01:43:59] And this is sort of the more standard first film which is someone figuring their thing out fairly successfully and just kind of planting their flag and going watch this space. This is a proper functional movie. But now I really know what I'm doing. Right. Yeah.

[01:44:16] What do you guys think? Liked it. Good. I liked it. It made me feel a little queasy at times. I don't love blood. Really? Don't love blood? No. Makes me a little lightheaded. What about guts? Hate them. This movie doesn't have any guts.

[01:44:31] Look, we recorded Trainspotting before this episode just because of guest scheduling. That's the only other boil we've recorded so we just flipped the order of these two. Yes. And this has happened before on the show.

[01:44:43] I'm suffering a little bit from me just recently having watched Trainspotting, a pretty phenomenal film. Yeah, that's true. That I hadn't seen in so long. This movie, yeah. I was so jazzed re-watching Trainspotting and this I'm like, yeah, good.

[01:44:56] Yeah, this movie is so just indelible to me as like whatever. Just like a movie I saw as a young person. Makes perfect sense. I do think it's good though. Yeah, I do too. And it's also just nice to see young hotties.

[01:45:10] You know, it's nice to see Eccleston and Ewan just like, you know, as they're just kicking off. We talked about it I feel like on the Angel at My Table episode. But just yeah, Carrie Fox truly never got the career she deserved.

[01:45:24] No, I mean she's had a career but yeah, no. It never stopped working. It is funny that it's not surprising at all that obviously Ewan quickly explodes out of this in Trainspotting. That's not the least surprising.

[01:45:36] You watch this performance and you go, you could place this guy in anything and he is going to be watchable. And it's not surprising that Eccleston's career going forward in film is mostly like British art films, playing villains in Hollywood movies. Yes.

[01:45:50] And like stuff like, I don't know, Elizabeth or whatever where it's like yeah, you're like the third lead in a pretty big British movie. Yeah. You know, like not, you're not gonna be. He's got an odd interesting career. I mean he's a great actor. Yeah.

[01:46:05] He's a good, really good television actor in Britain. Done lots of great theater. He's got a wonderful career. He's got like heroes and leftovers here. So good in leftovers. Yeah. His Doctor Who legacy is obviously very complicated and odd.

[01:46:18] But he's actually, I think he actually did the right thing in a way where he's kind of like, I left it on the table. I did one season. Everyone kind of thinks of me fondly. Yeah. I helped relaunch the brand. Yes.

[01:46:28] And every time they want me to come back for like the eighth Doctor meets the 12th Doctor in the ninth Doctor's house. You know, he's just like, fuck that. I don't want to do it. Well, you know, I was digging in after watching this movie.

[01:46:38] He had always been like, I had a really bad falling out with all the creatives on the show. Russell T. Davies and co. Yeah. And so I was like. Who he worked with a lot before Doctor Who. Right. He was huge.

[01:46:51] He was basically like, I was done halfway through filming. Of that season. I knew I was done, which is why the first season ends with David Tennant. Like they already were loaded for bear. Right. Being like, we got to move on. One season and done. Right.

[01:47:06] And then he always would be like, I don't really want to talk about it. I don't like the whole culture of that show. All that stuff. And then in the last four or five years, he's come around to it and sort of made peace with it. Yeah.

[01:47:17] And now has been doing like audio dramas as Doctor as the doctor from his timeline. Yeah. And basically has said, like, I would now come back and do it. And BBC doesn't want me back. Yeah. Well, every time they do the meetup. I don't know. I don't either.

[01:47:32] I fell way off on Doctor Who. We all did. Yeah. We all did. That's from a different time. I know it's relaunching. Yeah. So we'll see. It's now Disney now. It's going to be on Disney Plus, right? Yeah. Disney is now. I mean, that's good for them.

[01:47:46] But, you know, maybe I'll watch the new series. Do you love Doctor Who? No. I just wanted to get that reaction. Maybe some of the most un-Ben shit ever. No, I actually can't even see it.

[01:47:59] Like, if you're like Jeffrey Wright in Westworld, you're like, doesn't look like anything to me. Yeah. No, it's just like, it's just a white screen if it was ever on. But yeah, Carrie Fox. Yeah. We did kind of talk about this already.

[01:48:12] She has a lot of movies, a ton of TV works all the time. Yeah. But it kind of does feel like she deserved to be even more famous. I don't know. Yeah. It's also funny.

[01:48:24] I mean, I feel like she always talks about Intimacy, which is obviously the movie she does with Mark Rylance that has like unstimulated sex in it on screen. And she's like, it felt like that changed my perception.

[01:48:36] That was like sort of a door closed for me in Hollywood after that movie. Whereas like at that point in Rylance's career, he's mostly a theater guy. He's not doing a lot of film. And it's like people forget that he was the guy in that movie.

[01:48:51] And then he just sort of like reinvents himself as Mr. Mumbles, highbrow 15 years later in movies, wins an Oscar and now has his space. Yes. I feel like we already talked about that, but I just, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it is what it is.

[01:49:07] It is an interesting movie, you know, intimacy. I like that movie. Anything else? Danny Boyle? No. Oh, but the box office game. Yeah, motherfucker. I forgot the box office game. Oh, wait, we've done this one. Have we? Yes. Interesting. And fairly recently too. Let me see.

[01:49:25] Is there an expansion? Do the Brits have a different name for box office? No. No. Okay. I was trying to think of a joke I could do, but no. I'm just, I'm just like, you should. I don't know. Jolly Roger. You know, like, I don't know.

[01:49:43] What would they call it? Probably not Jolly Roger. No. The Tally booth. The Tally booth. Let's do... The booth where you take the tally. I guess let's do this week. Oh, yeah, this is a weird week where it's at the, it's expanded the most.

[01:50:01] The weekend it is in like a few theaters is the Quick and the Dead's weekend. Oh, okay. So we did that like a year ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a little boring. Sure. So in its highest week... Let's make that a rule.

[01:50:13] It has to be more than a year. It's gotta be, right. Like, if it's like the fucking Aliens weekend, then it's like, well, that was, we did that seven years ago. You probably don't remember that. Do you still play the box office game online?

[01:50:24] No, I stopped all of them. Wow. I went cold turkey in all the, you know, daily games. No, I stopped all the word ones and everything. That's the one I still play. Obviously you love the box office game.

[01:50:35] Yeah, but there is that funny thing sometimes where I'll be like, why is this weekend? And then I'll remember like, oh, this was an episode six years ago. Right. You'll, yeah, it stirs... It stirs something. But... Yes. The movie's in 84 theaters.

[01:50:49] This is its widest expansion in Britain, in America. This is March 3rd, 1995, Griffin. Okay. Okay? Okay. And number one is a new film. It's from the Walt Disney Company. And it's a comedy. They should go back to calling themselves the Walt Disney Company. It's from Buena Vista Distribution.

[01:51:09] Yes, that's my favorite. BV. It's new this week. It is a solid, mostly forgotten entry in the genre of the kid is in charge now, not the dad. Is it Man of the House? It's Man of the House. But there's also Getting Even with Dad. Yeah.

[01:51:28] I feel like there's a third. Obviously there was a general 90s streak of like, kids rule, dads drool. Right. Now, Getting Even with Dad was sort of famous folly because it was like a Macaulay Culkin high paycheck. And Ted Danson is the dad? Yes.

[01:51:42] Have you seen Getting Even with Dad? I've never seen Getting Even with Dad. No. But that was the one where it felt like Macaulay was like close to his top quote and the movie bombs and people were like, well, I'll just go see anything with this kid. Right.

[01:51:54] Man of the House used to play on the Disney Channel a lot. Of course. Man of the House, Jonathan Taylor Thomas, Chevy Chase, Farrah Fawcett. So it's very interesting to me because Jonathan Taylor Thomas is obviously what? That's like right at the start of or whatever.

[01:52:11] Home Improvement is hot shit. Right. I guess Lion King has come out the year before. And when does Home Improvement start? Yeah, but he hasn't really been doing movies. He's getting big. Four years. He's getting big.

[01:52:26] You know, people my age, they're always like, oh, my first crush was Jonathan Taylor Thomas with his little hair. He was like a little sophisticated. He seemed like he had a grown up seriousness to him.

[01:52:39] And I remember when I was a kid, I was like, I know who that is. That kid is cool. Yeah. Yeah. I want to do whatever that kid's doing. Chevy's kind of fallen star at this moment. It's a little like, oh, he's got to do one of these.

[01:52:51] He's got to have to share billing with this kid. And then even like Farrah Fawcett being the mom and that is really like, this is what Farrah Fawcett's crew. I remember that movie being weirdly kind of good.

[01:53:02] The secret to it is and this feels like a real Ben's Port classic. Have you ever seen this, Ben? I've not. But I love is a mischievous kid. Yes. And he's like, I'm fucking with the fucking Chevy Chase. Chevy wants to marry his mom. Right.

[01:53:16] He's like, well, if you want my approval, whatever. This feels like a real Ben. Like definitely Jonathan Taylor Thomas is essentially playing Bart Simpson or Dennis the Menace. Hell yeah. And Chevy Chase is the guy he's fucking with. But the supporting cast is like George went David Shiner.

[01:53:33] It's a pretty good little clowning clowning partner of Bill Irwin. Like it's got good people in it. You've got Art Lafleur. Yeah. Love that guy. The Tooth Fairy himself. Yeah, exactly. Zachary Brown. Can't say no him. But yes, look, it's 96 minutes of fun.

[01:53:53] What do you want from me? I know. I like it. It was directed by James Orr, who also directed Breaking All the Rules. Put him on the bracket. And well, when I hold your horses. Yeah, I don't know. Well, I've never seen it, but it is number one.

[01:54:08] It's on Disney Plus. I might watch that tonight. But doesn't it kind of it got for it has a 14 percent on Rotten Tomatoes. That's not screaming watchability to me. I'm telling you, this thing hit for me.

[01:54:18] And I feel like it's probably the lesser known man of the house, even though the other one is about Tommy Lee Jones and Christina Million. Yes. And that was Kelly Garner. Yeah. I'll tell you this, Griffin, and I have this is really sad news for you. Yeah.

[01:54:33] The film is streaming on Disney Plus. Uh huh. So for free, you know, if you're a subscriber. The sad news is now my plans are made for the night. Yeah, that's unfortunate. Yeah.

[01:54:44] Look, David, I thought the movie was good when I was five, which means it has to be good. And I will dig my heels in and you cannot tell me otherwise. Look, I got a B plus cinema score. There we go. Number two at the box office.

[01:54:54] We can't talk about this. No, because I'm going to devote an entire episode to it later. Number two at the box office was number one the week before. It is a very funny comedy. It's based on a television show. It's based on television show.

[01:55:08] Is it the Addams Family Values? No. So it's not maybe that good. Sure. But it is a good movie. Kind of on those vibes. Knowing Arch. Oh, is it the first Brady Bunch movie? That's correct. Betty Thomas' The Brady Bunch Movie. Betty Thomas. Yes. That's a good movie.

[01:55:27] A funny movie. Yeah. Right? Yes. Ben? The Brady Bunch Movie? Gary Cole, Shelley Long, Christine Taylor, Sher Jan. That's from the first one, right? Have you never seen it? No, I did. I saw it in the theaters. I don't remember anything about it.

[01:55:42] You know, the joke is like, oh, they're out of time. Marsha, Marsha, Marsha. Right. They've just been frozen in time, but they're in Gen X 90s California. Yeah. The whole weird origin of that movie is that there was the LA show that I think Joey Soloway

[01:55:58] was one of the people behind. I know Andy Richter was part of it. Mm hmm. Melanie Hutzel, who ends up on SNL. But it was like this LA comedy show where they would restage Brady Bunch episodes verbatim. And it was like, it's so weird. It's funny.

[01:56:14] Like just the show itself just done again is funny. And it would play really well to this sort of like arch ironic LA alt comedy audience. And then that got so big that Paramount was like, oh, fuck. Does like Brady Bunch have ironic appeal for this generation?

[01:56:31] And they basically wrote the movie based on the success of this like ongoing LA comedy show. That's insane. I didn't know. And then did carry over any of the actors. Right. But it was like Melanie Hutzel got on SNL because of that.

[01:56:44] Andy Richter basically gets on Conan because of that. It was sort of one of these like it wasn't quite the infamous production of Godspell, but it was like a show that that launched a lot of careers because it was such a it was

[01:56:55] called a hot ticket in LA. The real live Brady Bunch. Yes. Oh, OK. It's annoyance theater. It's annoying. Yes, it was annoying theater. Sorry, sorry. No, no. But that's interesting. And then I think a transfer to LA at some point. But it became.

[01:57:09] But it's just funny that someone's like, so can we do this? Not this. Right. Because they would want our money. Yeah. But don't we own the Brady Bunch? Yeah. Can we just do that? Yeah. It's just also funny. Gary Cole's just really.

[01:57:21] It didn't like transfer to Broadway or anything like it was a rare example of a studio kind of being not ahead of the curve, but early on it where they saw the beginning of the bubbling of the thing. Yeah.

[01:57:29] And you're like, oh, this is selling out 100 seat theaters. We should make a 15 million dollar movie. And it worked. And they made a sequel. They made a sequel that I remember being less good. Yeah. Right.

[01:57:40] One of those sequels that comes out like nine months after the first movie. Right. Where they were like, right. Yeah. Probably a mistake. OK. Number three is not a movie I automatically know. It is a horror film. Hmm. Uh oh. Uh oh. Is it starring Jeff Goldblum?

[01:57:58] Uh, horror film. I'm scared. Boo. Boo. Um, it's directed by a guy who made a. It's directed by a guy. Oh fuck. Now that's a clue for you to stew over. Spielberg. No, let's think. But he's it's it's in between his two best known movies. OK.

[01:58:22] And both of his best known movies are like the best known movies. OK. And both of his best known movies are like VR classics. They're vaporwave ass weird 90s relics. Uh, is it the director of Lawnmower Man? Correct. Brett Leonard. OK. And Virtuosity is the other one. Right.

[01:58:41] You know, those two movies where it's you're like, huh, 90s vision of the future. Yeah. Wrong but cute. Yes. This is a movie that he made in between them that's like a more I think a straightforward horror movie. Huh.

[01:58:53] Where Jeff Goldblum plays a guy who dies in a car accident is revived and starts to get weird visions and realizes he's like connecting to a serial killer. I truly might have no idea what this. I didn't know it. It's called Hideaway. Yeah.

[01:59:07] No, Jeff Goldblum, Christine Lottie, Alicia Silverstone, Jeremy Sisto, I think playing the serial killer, Alfred Molina, Ray Dawn Chong. Wait a second. Sounds great. Yeah. I'm seeing it got negative reviews. What's going on? Not a big hit either. OK. It's new this week. Number four.

[01:59:31] This is why I wanted to do this box office game. I really don't know these movies. OK, number four, a crime thriller. OK. Kiss, kiss, bing, bing. Sean Connery is the star. Hmm. OK. I think this movie foiled me in trivia.

[01:59:48] I could see you getting foiled by this anonymous ass movie. I'll tell you this. Is it called Just Calls? That's right. Yeah. Wow. Because I got it wrong. I will now forever remember. What did you say it was called? Just Friends? You idiot!

[02:00:09] That movie has Ryan Reynolds in it. It was a question. This was the movie Trish Mudd on RIP. This was a question where they referred to like, was it 95? Sure. And you went to rock or whatever. Rising Sun? Rising Sun, sure. Maybe that's 94. That's 93. Wow.

[02:00:30] But then I looked up Just Cause and most people classify it as a legal thriller. It's a legal thriller. It's not an action thriller. Lawrence Fishburne is the second lead there. Right. But it's one of those like, it's like a capital punishment movie or whatever.

[02:00:42] He turned down the role of the villain in Braveheart to be in Just Cause. Wow. I'm guessing here it got negative reviews. Number five in the box office. Yeah. It's another film from Disney, but my guess is it's a... Re-release? No, it's a touchstone. Let's see.

[02:01:00] It's a Hollywood, actually. It's a Hollywood picture? This one's from Hollywood. Okay. And that's how you know the movie's authentic. It's from Hollywood. Straight from. It's a comedy drama. Yeah. It's a comedy drama. It's a comedy drama. It's a comedy drama. It's an old man. Oh, damn.

[02:01:28] We're not talking lemon to math time. No, but you know, kind of in that vibe. Hmm. Two older guys. You know, one of them is really, they're pretty old. They're pretty fucking old. You know what? They're old. It's a comedy from 95? Yeah, it's a comedy from 95.

[02:01:48] And it's nominated for an Oscar. In what category? In makeup. Fuck. And I think... I don't know. It's basically like an old guy moves in with his grandson and hijinks ensue. It's not dad. No. What is that again?

[02:02:10] Dad is Jack Lemon, Ted Danson, Ethan Hawkes, three generations of the same family, but they're both pretty old at the time. Okay, so it's exactly the same vibe as that. Because I think that the main character, who's being played by a guy I think in his 70s,

[02:02:21] is like in his hundreds in this movie or something. What fucking movie? I don't know. Here's the tagline. It's an Oscar nomination for old age makeup. Okay, give me the tagline. Some people talk. Some people listen. When you're 107 and going strong, you do whatever you want.

[02:02:40] And the old guy moves in with his younger... He's like grandson. I... What? I have could not... I don't know. I have no idea what this is. Peter Falk is in this movie. Columbo himself. Is he the old guy? Yes, he sure is. He's the young guy.

[02:03:02] And here's the twist. This guy's young as fuck. Grandpa, why are you riding me? Is this Peter Falk and D.B. Sweeney? Yes, that's right. What's this movie called? D.B. Sweeney plays his grandson. We all know him. The voice of the dinosaur in Dinosaur. Aladar, very cute.

[02:03:21] Wow that you pulled that name. It's a running podcast. Running podcast, the ride bit. I gifted Scott Gardner an Aladar. That sounds like something you would do. I did. You know, the recent thing I did where I gave Scott Gardner from podcast the ride his son...

[02:03:36] You gave him 80 Kingo toys or whatever. I gave him 15 Kingos. Because his son genuinely likes Kingo from Eternals. His son loves Kingo from Eternals. That's his name, right? It's Camille's character. Yes, now Scott has started to say he thinks that at this point

[02:03:50] he thinks Kingo is the name of Funko Pops. Like for him, Kingo is square head dot eyes. Oh, like they are all Kingos. Right. But all he knows is he owns 15 Funko Pops of Kingo. Okay, sorry. This movie is called... Ah, fuck.

[02:04:06] I'm going to tell you the thing about my folks, which is the Peter Falk... Paul Reiser movie. I'll tell you that this film was directed by the great Peter Yates, who's made a lot of good movies. And so maybe this movie is good. It's called Roommates.

[02:04:22] Dude, I never would have gotten that title in a billion years. Roommates. That's a while that I knew what movie it was. And the title was nowhere close to me. I knew that the poster says Peter Falk, D.B. Sweeney. Yeah. Roommates. And it was Oscar nominated.

[02:04:41] That's wild. Lost to Braveheart. For makeup. Speaking of roommates, I found the meme I was talking about. Okay. Having roommates in Portland be like, Sock wants to know why you're weaponizing your neurotypical privilege by asking them to do the dishes. Yeah, that one's good.

[02:04:59] Now I know what you're talking about. You know why it's funny? Because I'm a big fan of yours. Shallow Grave. Shallow Grave. David, final thoughts? As we launch into Danny Boyle, a man you've been waiting for years to cover on this show,

[02:05:16] we sort of settled into this rhythm we've talked about now with the way we schedule this podcast. Yes. We're basically, our March Madness will usually start in the second half of the year, run about towards the end. Yes. And then we're going to start off each new year

[02:05:33] with a David and a Griffin. A David pick and a Griffin pick. This is the David. This is your pick, and this is one that's been in the hopper for a long time. So it's hoppy. This is like a double IPA at this point. Absolutely.

[02:05:49] And then your pick is pretty hoppy too. Yeah. Your pick is like fucking the WB frog. It's a swing. So those are planned. Those are booked. I'm looking forward to this. You know, look forward to like it's just a lot of wild swings

[02:06:06] between genres, between like sort of industries even. Who would complain about this? This is like a classic blank track. No one complains about anything on the internet. No. Other than you not being British enough. 2023 positive energy. And I think we have a lot of great stuff coming up.

[02:06:24] Hot Griffin, hot David. This has been our classic guest list first episode of the mini series where we're kind of both like, you know, but like, you know, get ready. But I think Transpotting is a corker. And we're also just going to try to mostly be in person

[02:06:38] for these episodes. We'll have a couple Zoomers with some LA folk or whatever. We got a couple, but. Sock from Portland, what a Zoomer he is. Look, we got our studio now. It's coming together nicely, but more than anything,

[02:06:52] it is the true pleasure of having a stable home that we can invite people into and do these records looking at other human faces in real life. Just so much better. Yes, I love faces. I love them. Thank you all for listening.

[02:07:08] Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media and helping to produce the show. Thank you to JJ Birch for our research. AJ McCann, Alex Barron for our editing. Lee Montgomery, the great American novel for our theme song.

[02:07:25] Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. You can go to BlankCheckPod.com for some links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, where we do commentaries on some of Hollywood's biggest franchises and what franchise is bigger than the Cotsy trilogy.

[02:07:44] Not quite Cotsy, coming February 1st. Spoiler! In contention for the worst movie we've ever covered on either feed. The vibes start good, and then around minute one things start to curdle. We're talking the host. By minute two we're out. Alice in Wonderland.

[02:07:59] We're talking things that are not movies. It is arguably worse than... You know what I mean? It's like vibes, minute zero, we're like this is fun, minute one we're like I'm not sure what's going on here. Minute two we're like worst piece of shit we've ever seen.

[02:08:15] Look, I think it's a fun episode. Oh, it's a great episode. We go full Comedy Central roast, we're just trying out jokes, and then we have a statement that we have discussed on the show. As a movie it is worse than the Dunkin' Donuts cup that Ben

[02:08:31] barfed into in the backseat of a car on the way to Atlantic City. I agree with that statement. If I'm just judging it as a film, that's a better movie, that cup. So listen to that. And a thing we want to start reminding people of more regularly

[02:08:47] because we've been doing this for the last year but we've been forgetting to mention it. We will unlock all Patreon episodes after three years. So our first year of Patreon 2019 is now completely open for everyone. And every 10 days on our Patreon

[02:09:02] if you are subscribed, if you are a checkmate you will get a new episode but if you are not subscribed there will be an unlocked accessible to anyone episode from essentially the 2020 archives. All this is to say all of the Marvel commentaries are now unlocked from 2019, 2020

[02:09:18] you'll be getting the Star Wars commentaries. Yeah and then other stuff. Coming up Toy Story. Yeah a lot of weird pandemic commentaries coming up but they're pretty fun. Yeah, look if you like hearing us talk about Toy Story and Star Wars two franchises that are important

[02:09:36] in the history of the show those are things you can listen to all the Marvel commentaries unlocked also obviously other things like the Atlantic City episode we just talked about THX, American Graffiti, all sorts of fun stuff. Marvel Performance Review with Gethard that's a great episode.

[02:09:52] That is a great one. So yeah you can check it out the first 11th and the 21st of each month it'll be available noon Eastern Standard Time. Yeah you just want to go to patreon.com slash blank check and those will now just be unlocked posts.

[02:10:06] Also new merch. Yeah, yeah we got some new merch. Anyway tune in next week for Trainspotting with returning guest Charles Rogers of Search Party. Yep, great up. Great up with a great bit. That lands. Woo! Smooth! Especially listening to it. I was going to say it's very visual.

[02:10:30] Maybe one of the most visual bits ever done on this show. Don't get too alarmed guys I'm talking about like a two minute moment in the episode it's just funny to think about. It's just funny how visual it is and labor intensive. Yeah, incredibly labor intensive.

[02:10:46] Not by us by the way. Don't chop up bodies. I'd like to ask you about your hobbies. Now when you sacrifice a goat and you rip its heart out with your bare hands do you... I got to start this over Jesus Christ. You got this.

[02:11:08] This is going to be a tough mini series.