Spartacus with Richard Lawson

[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the neighbors are shy with Blank Check I also podcast in the way that Tony Curtis says I also juggle

[00:00:43] I feel like that's weirdly become this movie's lasting legacy is just impressions of how much Tony Curtis sounds like he's ordering a sandwich at a deli every single line of this movie Which way to the G train?

[00:00:59] I just think that one second moment in Clueless where they're watching it, you're not as big a Clueless head as me

[00:01:11] No, look, I like Clueless every time I watch it and I'll maybe watch it every couple of years I wait for it to hit me the way it hits you and it still has yet to but there are other movies that take a while

[00:01:21] I used to be able to recite that movie from memory And of course, you know, Christian brings over Sporadicus, some like it hot in Sporadicus is what she says, he brings over some Tony Curtis movies Christian is the closeted guy she's crushing on He plays him again?

[00:01:37] You know, I don't know that that guy ever like really amounted to much He's one of those 90s guys where you're like, he seems like he's gonna be a star Yeah, I don't know where he went

[00:01:47] I was saying to him, you think Sammy Davis Jr's death left an opening in the rat pack? He's got the hat Such a brutal omen I have a 45 and a shovel Nobody would miss you I can really quote the entirety of it

[00:02:06] We watched Clueless together many years ago We should just do Hackerland It came over to your apartment on 13th Street. Remember when you lived in Park Slope? Years ago Was Becca in town? Yes, Becca was in town You were nursing David I was a true like baby

[00:02:24] I had just moved to New York Did you even have an apartment then? I think I didn't. I think I was still living, like I was crashing on a couch Because you stayed at our place once I believe Yeah, I mean, wait, wait

[00:02:37] Justin Walker is the name of that guy And he just never really, it was his first movie but he never really It was so surreal seeing the actual scene Because I'd never seen Spartacus before But I'd seen that one little clip from Clueless like hundreds of times

[00:02:51] And it really does stand out in the movie Well, because you are like, holy shit, who is this guy? He's got such a face, Tony Curtis He's so pretty He was a pretty guy There's that story, I mean, Tony Curtis, I believe, would tell this himself

[00:03:06] Tony Curtis would tell stories about himself? Show me his story I mean, he's a big star at this point Or not a big star, yeah, he's a pretty big star While I wait for the sandwich

[00:03:19] You're on Greenpoint Avenue, is this one of those where I have to run to get it? Russian dressing He has a story, what's Tony Curtis' story? What acting school was he a part of? He was part of one of those legendary acting classes or acting schools

[00:03:33] Let's see, okay, I'm not sure But he was in the group with Matthau and a couple other fucking hangdog rumpled suit actors When they were all the same age And they would all shit on him for being a shitty actor

[00:03:50] Yeah, apparently part of the crew, Rock Hudson, Piper Laurie, James Best, a lot of these guys His joke is, I was a million and one shot I wasn't the low man on the totem pole, I was under the totem pole in a sewer I don't get the respect

[00:04:05] Yeah, I don't know why he's Dangerfield all of a sudden It was Matthau and someone else I'm forgetting would really pick on him And just be like, you can't fucking act You can't fucking act, you're never gonna make it, you can't act

[00:04:16] Do you think Matthau's negging him because Tony Curtis is like 40 times prettier than him? This is the thing So then like four months later, Tony Curtis is like starring in movies And Tony Curtis was like, the first thing I did when I became a picture star

[00:04:29] I bought a fancy car, I put a woman in the passenger seat and I drove by And I went, hey, fuck you Matthau And that gave way to Grumpy Old Man Right, and Matthau was just jealous because he couldn't get pussy

[00:04:43] But the incredible thing about that story is just to think that Matthau's sitting there And he's like, now I'm gonna will myself into being one of the leading men of a generation That Matthau didn't just become like some fucking show Yeah, no, you're right

[00:04:56] Matthau became like an action star and a comedy star and a drama star And won Oscars and was a box office draw into his 80s Yeah, Matthau probably has him beat but they're both pretty big But Tony never got an Oscar And Curtis' run was a lot shorter

[00:05:09] It was shorter And he also had the weird dual thing of being the gay icon And he kind of always pushed that away But also then raised it Yeah, it was a weird I think he was one of the people who was really vocal against Brokeback Mountain

[00:05:26] He's like, it's disgraceful, John Wayne would be rolling in his grave And they were like, Tony, what's your best picture pick? Harry Potter and the Godfather I remember that distinctly Really? In the same year Those kids went to the prom, it was great

[00:05:39] Cedric Diggory, I mourn his loss For some reason that's the funniest one for him to like But just the idea that he was shitting on Brokeback so much And they were like, so what are you going to say, Capote? Are you a crash guy?

[00:05:52] And he was like, I give it to that Potter kid, fifth time's the charm But that's really funny It was like a Liz Smith interview And he was like, love that Potter kid Radcliffe is really growing into a fine young actor

[00:06:04] My favorite thing, did you watch the Potter reunion thing? And I know this is just a huge I did, sadly I watched it and I had just rewatched all the movies Because it was like, whichever fucking screen it was Omicron won or whatever I did the same, yeah

[00:06:24] And you know, Goblet is one of my favorite of those books And always been one of my least favorite movies Because they kind of just squeeze it in And you're like, eh, this one's not that good And it's Mike Newell

[00:06:34] And then in that documentary, you're like, now Goblet And you're like, well, they'll just skim past this one, right? And everyone's like, Mike Newell had the energy Of a guy on cocaine who had just stolen a car And you see these step clips of him

[00:06:46] Where he's like, charging at the actor He's like, ahhh! And you're like, this is not what I expected Goblet has that insane concert sequence Where is it Jarvis Cocker? Yes, and it's got the Jarvis Cocker Is part of the Weird Sisters You know, it's at the prom

[00:07:01] Oh, they're at the prom And they do the World Cup And they do the World Cup And they do the tournament It's a sequence of like, what would a wizard rock concert be like That has the subtlety of like, the B-52s

[00:07:11] Playing the BC-52s and the Flintstones Right, right Anyway, it just is really funny That like, rad clips You're just cutting to all these talking heads That are like, yeah, Mike was really intense And it's fucking Mike Newell You would think he's the sleepiest guy

[00:07:27] He's just like, whispering instructions to Jim Broadbent On like, the set of whatever Tony British movie he's making You know, that's what I imagine from Mike Newell I think that's the worst one But it weirdly just like, it has the lasting legacy Of like, that's the first Voldemort

[00:07:42] And fucking, and Pattinson Pattinson and Fiennes kind of keep that movie relevant This, to go back to Tony Curtis This picture is not as important as we make it It's nothing unique The only thing unique about it is they put it on the screen

[00:07:56] And they make him gay cowboys Howard Hughes Okay And John Wayne wouldn't like it I don't think we should be guessing what Howard Hughes would or would not like Also, by the way The list of things Howard Hughes didn't like, very long Notoriously, the picky man germs

[00:08:12] When asked to name his favorite film of the year Curtis replied, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Thank you, I will never forget that Why would you? Right, because it was so many people So many actors of that generation were saying that same shitty stuff about Brokeback

[00:08:28] But he was the only one to counter with Harry Potter Yeah, Ernest Borgnine didn't come up with anything I just like, why did they bring up John Wayne John Wayne wouldn't like a lot of shit right now Yeah, most shit John Wayne would hate TikTok

[00:08:42] 2006, and he'd be like, what do you think of Transformers 2, John Wayne? It would drive him insane Curtis, what is the sort of Curtis run? I guess I didn't realize, it didn't really come out until after he died

[00:08:56] That he was just completely fucking dubbed in Some Like It Hot Is he? There was always the thing of like, oh, some of it You're talking like that For the, when he's in drag That he couldn't do it

[00:09:10] And I think they'd always say, oh, some of it's done And after he died, they were just like He did a Cameron Diaz thing where he did a patois, like a Caribbean And they were like, oh, that doesn't work Why do I sound like Rihanna?

[00:09:20] I'm gonna fuck this car Let me fuck this car So, he comes to Hollywood in the late 40s, like we said He was a universal guy And they taught him how to, you know, whatever, act He's a Bronx kid, right?

[00:09:36] But he was one of those guys where it's just like This guy's so fucking pretty, it doesn't even matter Just put him on TV And he does like, you know, he did a Douglas Sirk movie He did Houdini with Janet Leigh Who he was married to

[00:09:48] Playing Harry Houdini Yes Let me get out of this jacket real quick Oh no, my appendix I feel like One of his first One of his first huge hits, weirdly Is that movie Trapeze With Burt Lancaster Which I've never seen This jacket ain't straight Keep doing it, guys

[00:10:12] Right, so he does Gotta walk this rope real quickly I'm on a trapeze Right, he does that And then the next year, reunites with Lancaster to do Sweet Smells, etc Which is probably his best movie and his best performance And is such an incredible movie

[00:10:26] But is obviously a box office failure Because it's too dark, but it gets good reviews Some Like It Hot's the other one that sort of solidifies him in film history Even though it turns out half the performance isn't him Well, but then

[00:10:36] No, but then it's Defiant Ones the year after that That's his Oscar nomination I believe it's his only Oscar nomination Which is a little rude And then Some Like It Hot The year after that Which he's great in He talks like this The shell stuff is really good

[00:10:54] I'm not discrediting When I was like 9 and I saw that movie for the first time And he held up the shell It was a good bit I was a little kid I was maybe younger than that, 8 And my parents were like

[00:11:08] We went over to someone's place for dinner And they were boring And my parents were like You kids sit in the room and watch a movie And we're like what movie And they looked through And they were like this is a boring fucking movie

[00:11:22] My mom was like we're going to the National Film Theater We're gonna see it in Britain, in London Of all places And I was like this movie's black and white I'm like 9 years old I was like this is gonna be boring She's like you're gonna like it

[00:11:36] It also has the 80s action comedy thing Where the opening 5 minutes or 10 minutes are straight And they're just like this is just some gangster movie This is not my kind of thing And I was like it's gonna be funny And then the moment the jokes kick in

[00:11:48] That's 59 right? So Spartacus is the year after Then Spartacus Which of course, this movie we're talking about today Was the biggest hit of 1960 It was a gigantic hit And then The Outsider You know, we're getting in trouble here You know, it's immediately

[00:12:06] It's like movies I don't really know that well Captain Newman, Paris when it sizzles He was also one of those guys Who sort of aged weirdly His face made sense At a very specific age range And then when he's like got wrinkles on his face

[00:12:20] But he still got those eyelashes I mean he looked weird later in life He had work done too No but I'm saying even before the work done He was a guy who was like so boyish That the second he got older It didn't really click

[00:12:34] We have to acknowledge in 68 He takes out his own money Or like takes a giant pay cut or whatever To do The Boston Strangler And that was seen as a comeback at the time It was a post-stroke movie But it didn't really pay off

[00:12:48] It doesn't lead to another huge run for him And then he just becomes You know Kind of this Like a guy who would tell good old Hollywood stories Yeah You know Like even Kirk Douglas I feel like acted more post-stroke

[00:13:06] Than Tony Curtis did the last 20 years of his life Right Douglas at least did like 3 or 4 movies post-stroke I was trying to think about What I would have seen Kirk Douglas in When I was growing up Because I know he was acting

[00:13:20] What you mean like what you would have seen What's the first thing Because it wouldn't have been in one of his older movies There's that movie Greedy with Michael J. Fox That might have been it Greedy that's 94 Well of course he's Chester Lampwick In that Simpsons episode

[00:13:36] That's probably all of our first The rocket car And like a great performance Yeah That's like a classic Simpsons episode That's a great performance Simpsons did have that period of time Where it was like Well incredible But also that thing where it's like

[00:13:56] Where Foggy is at now with Marvel Where he's like who are the actors who would never Fucking do a superhero movie And can I get them in this just to prove that we're undeniable Where Simpsons would be like We'll get people out of retirement

[00:14:08] I was with Taylor to say one word Yeah Kathleen Turner as the Malibu Stacy They used to get them and then they would give them actual roles And it was really good And if that was now on television And they were filmed

[00:14:24] Everyone would be like that's the best performance of the year But it was like a little one off on the Simpsons The Kirk Douglas performance is similarly like Incredible It's like they would write incredible characters for these people The Talking Simpsons podcast which is a good podcast

[00:14:36] But I did that a year or two ago And I somewhere deep in the pandemic And the episode I picked is this one With Michael Keaton from like season 13 So it's like after the glory days And it's not particularly a good episode Total disaster times right

[00:14:50] But it was also like Keaton and Fatloh period And my whole defense of the episode Because I tried to watch every fucking Simpsons during the pandemic And I think I got up to 24 25 before I tapped out Was like this might be The last time they hire a star

[00:15:04] And have them play a character Rather than do a character that is a caricature Of the celebrity Michael Keaton what are you doing here Well Lisa Or it's like it's Michael Keaton And he's like yes I'm a banker Like don't have Ricky Gervais play someone who isn't

[00:15:20] Ricky Gervais but will look like Ricky Gervais And do the Ricky Gervais routine It becomes Larry Burns The turning point Was that the Alec Baldwin Kim Basinger episode That episode is weird That episode is funny But it is kind of

[00:15:38] And it's also weird how that episode was my first impression of Alec Baldwin So Alec Baldwin is like a really skinny cool guy Right He's in the getaway You're like Hollywood's greatest couple Everyone loves these two And Ron Howard is like a drunk fun guy

[00:15:52] That episode frames them Like even in that moment They were seen as Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson Rather than these two hotties married each other They're like well of course the pillars of the industry Right Romance that will last the test of time Yeah Sporadicus Kurt Douglas

[00:16:12] He's what 82 in this movie Judging by the looks of it What was the Forky was like did he really Did they do something to his chin I'm like no his chin just looks like that It's like someone just put a thumbtack in it

[00:16:26] It's also one of those things You know when you see like a high school or college photo of him And you're like his face is frightening when he's young Oh I can imagine It's like he needed like Six lines to come into play He looks like the Joker

[00:16:40] Right Also you know those old photos Very smooth But his nose is like the penguin Isn't that the guy from Deep Space Nine It looks like Odom He sleeps in a bucket But it is It's just too smooth

[00:16:58] And then in this it's like once he gets a little bit of Sandblasting in there When I was doing theater in college There was one guy who you know he was good looking enough But he looked old and basically every acting teacher

[00:17:08] Was like just wait until you're like 40 And you'll start working And he's starting to work Right I may think Jon Hamm Is another guy like that When you see like 25 year old Jon Hamm You're like this doesn't really make sense

[00:17:24] But it was like you're going to be such a good man Yeah And Kirk Douglas was one of those things where he had to become like a man He had to have like an earned grimace And then his face completely made sense on screen But looks unreal

[00:17:36] You're right It's one of those things where you look at him and you're like That must be the result of some bizarre surgery Like certain early golden Hollywood stars Where you're like They had a very bizarre nose job that looks like no one else's nose But it's iconic

[00:17:50] Well it's like when you look at photos from World War II or something And you're just like everyone's face is not what faces are now And he has one of those I wouldn't even call him handsome By like today's standards

[00:18:00] But like he was kind of viewed that way Oh 100% Yeah but he's striking He's one of those classic people you call striking Which means that he looks like he could hit you over the head with a baseball bat Right

[00:18:12] But also like his head is like 50% of his height Yes Everything is like at an angle He's got like all these insane angles to his chin He's got like a lot ofoglyphics Have you ever seen Lust for Life? Yes I feel like he was primarily cast because

[00:18:28] He kind of looked like Van Gogh Let me do this painting I gotta paint some flowers Sorry you were saying He just looks so much like Van Gogh He does With the hair looks so good in that movie They make his hair all stringy and spiky

[00:18:46] I love him as an actor I know Kirk Douglas was probably Sort of you know a bad person It seems like it It's decades lost now At the very least he was intensely complicated There are some real positive things you can point to

[00:19:04] In sort of his life and his advocacy And there are a lot of horrible horrible whispers about him That you can google But certainly he is He was a very unique screen presence The Bad and the Beautiful Is one of my favorite Minnelli movies I love that movie

[00:19:22] He's also one of those guys who at that level Of stardom actually used his stardom In pretty fucking interesting ways That's what's interesting about him in general We talked about it last week He so easily could have just been Heston 100%

[00:19:36] Ace in the Hole was a big early movie For me as a teen where I'm like I didn't know movies were this dark The fact that he played a depressive Van Gogh In this movie that's like There's no action in this it's just this Is fascinating

[00:19:50] He did Cuckoo's Nest on Broadway Yes and his son fired him He fogged the movie Michael produced it He's one of those classic Cases of like He had a great career obviously And he was in a lot of great movies But when new Hollywood comes around

[00:20:08] He actually struggles to adapt He didn't Whereas he actually had been The cutting edge guy in the 50s doing the darker stuff And then when Hollywood is catching up to it He doesn't catch up And he's instead doing that mob movie The Brotherhood That everyone cites as like

[00:20:26] Oh this is like the Godfather but bad This is like before they figured out That you should cast Italian people And have a real sense of verisimilitude It's just not as good He was sort of The model of what becomes DeCamprio Cooper The guys who are really handsome

[00:20:44] And get the movie star breakthrough And are like I'm going to use this to elevate Cinema, hire unconventional people Get weird material adapted Rather than just play the hits Because even something like Sparta I mean even when he would do these big

[00:20:58] Epics the things that physically he seems like such a good Fit for he would often approach In kind of a weird way His acting style was just so rooted In that time And I think even Heston Was able to make a shift to Grizzled even if it

[00:21:14] Went a little bit into self-parody And Heston was also smart about the fucking Sci-fi shift He was, Heston did trash, like good trash Kirk Douglas is a better Actor than Charlton Heston Heston has you know screen presence But they're interesting guys to compare They are and of course

[00:21:32] Arguably a better actor And also you probably know this Kirk Douglas was the runner up For Ben Hur and this movie is kind of This is Kirk Douglas' dark man He's like I'll fucking wear leather Right I'll do it myself, I'll put some sandals on Just you wait

[00:21:50] But like it's just funny that this is the biggest Movie of the year, it's a huge hit Doesn't get picture director or star Which like what is that? That's weird. Do we know why that is? I need to, I mean maybe there's

[00:22:02] Something in the research but like he never won An Oscar in general which is wild Three nominations never won But like this movie did not Get a Best Picture nomination but they really Famously bad, I can give you the Is that the Gigi year? No it's not

[00:22:18] It's a good year Because the apartment wins But the Alamo Which is this famous bomb That's the one that's weird to get in there Where John Wayne played Davy Crockett but like everyone Knew it as this kind of like crappy Vanity project

[00:22:36] That didn't really work, that sneaks in Because that's the one John Wayne directed And that sneaks into picture and then it's Elmer Gantry which I guess was Like a big movie at the time The Jack Cardiff movie Which I've never seen And then the Sundowners

[00:22:54] This like Robert Mitchum, Debra Cart I don't know maybe Spartacus was Almost seen as too Trashy, like poppy The Alamo thing is the thing that's confusing If the fifth slot was something that was similarly I would get it more

[00:23:08] This is the year that Psycho gets no for Best Picture It gets Director and Supporting Actress It's a wild Year, I mean the rudest thing Do you know that the Golden Globes Did give this a Best Actor nomination But for Olivier They nominated Olivier in lead

[00:23:24] That's funny, I mean he's really good He is But it did not And it won the Golden Globe for Best Picture So that's also weird They nominated Woody Strode for Supporting Actor Which is look, incredibly striking Effective performance but very small Woody Strode is probably

[00:23:42] Not who I would nominate Who is he playing? He's the one who fights Oh the former athlete Yes, right, yes Who gets killed And then Yustinov wins Best Actor at the Oscars Supporting, sorry I think that is A pretty deserved win, especially when you look at the competition

[00:24:02] It's an awesome win The only thing that's interesting about it Is when you watch this movie I don't know if you come away in a total vacuum And I'm like, do you know who won the Oscar of that cast? No I would probably say Lawton over him

[00:24:16] You would probably say Lawton or Olivier But then when you know that You're like, well no, Yustinov is really good He comes around at the end And he's changed And he plays it well When the movie starts you certainly don't think

[00:24:30] That guy is going to be in the final scene of this movie No, no, he disappears for truly An hour and a half maybe He's in the first hour and the last half hour And he has that great scene with Lawton

[00:24:40] Where they're just kind of talking about their Philosophies for life That doesn't need to be in the movie at all I've talked about this before But Yustinov, one of the all time great Rock-on-tourists Almost no one was better at telling showbiz stories Than Peter Yustinov

[00:24:56] And the thing that was incredible about it Is when he would tell these stories He would do immaculate impressions of every guy And there's some YouTube video Of a long form video Of him telling stories about the set Of this film Because you just go like putting up

[00:25:12] Fucking Olivier Lawton Fucking Yustinov The dinner table conversations must have been fucking incredible And he tells all the stories about working on this movie And when he does it He not only perfectly impersonates Charles Lawton's voice But he transforms his face He like does this, right

[00:25:28] He like sinks his face It's like Jim Carrey where the bone structure of his face changes And it's unbelievable And it's clear it's just such a party trick That he's so proud he can whip out at any point He's one of those guys that doesn't exist anymore

[00:25:40] Like an actor Who is just like well read Intelligent Could go on like a talk show and smoke a cigarette It was also like kind of a comedian Like he would go on a talk show And he'd clearly have prepared material

[00:25:54] Like he wasn't just a guy who was like charming Have you ever seen Top Cappy I've never seen Top Cappy That's what he won his other Oscar for I need to see that Verhoeven was going to remake Top Cappy As a sequel to Thomas Crown Affair You're right

[00:26:12] The Top Cappy Affair It's a very weird thing To have a Top Cappy Affair Sequelize the Brosnan Russo Thomas Crown Affair By taking Top Cappy and giving it to Verhoeven Which sounded like such a bizarre project Brosnan's in Black Adam this year Are you hyped? It's Dr. Fate

[00:26:30] What's Renee Russo in that's what I want to know She should be in Shazam too Yeah bring her in We're talking about so many things It's Blind Check with Griffin and David I'm Griffin It's a podcast about filmographies

[00:26:44] Who have had a lot of success early on in their careers And are given a series of blank checks To make whatever crazy passion projects they want Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby This is a mini series on the films of Stanley Kubrick

[00:26:54] It's called Pod's Widecast Today we're covering Spartacus Which is what we like to call a guarantor Classic guarantor This is the film that gives them the blank check That they run off of for the rest of their career He made the most successful film of the year

[00:27:08] Yeah it worked And it was like he made four movies And then he went back to the box office Essentially In a row Rising acclaim but not financially But not only that he comes away from this movie

[00:27:22] And he's like okay that's the last time I ever bend to anyone else's whims ever again Yeah because he kind of proved himself as like a studio Like reliable You know Douglas brings him in after firing the original Anthony Mann or whatever

[00:27:32] And then he's like okay so I did that I can do that but I'm never going to do that ever again Right His only hired gun movie arguably ever Right Not arguably Inarguably He directed the whole first season of Mad About You But that's television

[00:27:50] That was a passion project He paid out of pocket to do that actually He funded the whole thing himself I felt so bad for those live studio audiences Because they come in every night And it would be one camera set up and he'd do 400 takes

[00:28:02] Screaming at James Burroughs How did 12 do that Good riser No but it is interesting Because like Cooper talks about it and he's like This was the first and last time I did what anyone else wanted me to do Like the first four movies

[00:28:20] He's doing exactly what he fucking wants Pretty much The first three movies he has a very limited canvas Limited resources and he's learning But he's making everything exactly how he wants to No one is preventing him He just is on a learning curve

[00:28:34] Then Paths of Glory is like I fucking arrived He performs at the box office And then this one he knew he kind of had to play the game a little bit But also Was incredibly difficult He was a huge pain in the ass Old Stan the man 32

[00:28:50] The whole thing is he died young I had the conversation that I bet you've had with friends Where they're like what are you guys doing next And I was like Kubrick And they're like are you going to break that up or something

[00:29:00] And I'm like no it's not a lot of movies It's 13 films in total It's going to be hard to talk about these totemic movies But it's pretty quick People think that because it goes from the 50s to the 90s But he died when he was like

[00:29:12] In his 80s He was like 67 or something He was not though 70 Bizarre sudden surprising death I'm going to hone my impression of Tom Cruise Being asked on the Eyes Wide Shut making of Which I've seen so many times What was your reaction to hearing that he had died

[00:29:32] And he just looks at the camera like a maniac And goes horrified I need to get it exact Horrified He says it twice There's an amazing quote from Kirk Douglas That JJ A researcher pulled up Where Not jump ahead but Give me the quote That

[00:29:56] Kubrick was signed to like a five picture deal With Douglas' company And this ended up being the second one They were supposed to do three other movies after this Kubrick really wanted to do Lolita next He was developing before this film Douglas was like

[00:30:10] I'll let you out of your contract And Douglas in some quote after Kubrick died Talking about what a pain in the ass he was Was like by the way if I kept him in his contract He only made six movies total After Spartacus From 1960 to 1999

[00:30:24] He makes six films Half of his remaining filmography would have been under my contract Is that No okay alright Right isn't that crazy Let me give you some context Speaking of our dossier By the way our guest today Richard Lawson for Bayardy Fair

[00:30:42] And the Little Gold Men Podcast I feel like every time I come on this podcast we're talking about a movie Where Kirk Douglas drowns someone in a cauldron of soup Don't you feel like that's A recurring theme for us It happens in Lady and the Water

[00:30:56] It's most of Lady and the Water Is it in Trolls? Well it happened in the experience It's not in the film Griffin flew off the handle at one of the employees Who was Kirk Douglas Who was like welcome to the experience It's crazy to think

[00:31:12] He had a troll thing up He kind of has troll hair It's crazy to think that Kirk Douglas Lived to 103 Which on paper seems like a very full life But he never got to do the experience He never did it He didn't live

[00:31:28] That's why Michael Douglas does it every day in his honor Sometimes Catherine comes Not always This is your Can't stop the feeling This is your 11th episode Congratulations 12 if you include the experience Sure Did you know that your Blank check Wikipedia page now Includes your tweet

[00:31:52] To Katie Rich after both Kelly Reichardt And Wolfgang Peterson had lost Asking if they should do a Five month Wolfgang Peterson Kelly Reichardt Series and you said Air Force Scout That's pretty good Best in the biz That's why he's back baby I'm glad that's been over the last

[00:32:14] Yeah So Kubrick makes Paths of Glory But he doesn't make no money The movie doesn't make no money And he's like sure I got my critical Plot it's but quanto Dinero per stand right and he's been Validated by this big major star

[00:32:30] Put him on a bigger stage is like I think Those kids got it and The movie was well respected but It's still you know yeah I mean I know it's banging down a store But beyond that I think he truly just needs Moolah yeah

[00:32:44] He just doesn't have any money especially Because the first three they were Essentially putting their own money into He doesn't make any fucking money from any of this I think Paths of Glory is salary was like Deferred or whatever Classic Hollywood things with the like we're gonna defer

[00:32:58] Your salary it's a good idea it was deferred And then the movie didn't make money so he was truly Like I kind of haven't made a dollar Directing and I'm five four movies in So one thing he wants to make Apparently is a Civil War drama called the

[00:33:10] Downslope that he wrote With Shelby Foote That Mark Forster was going to adapt Into a trilogy correct But it never happened He wanted Gregory Peck to be in that movie Mark Forster did which is part of the problem Mark he's dead I don't care if he's dead

[00:33:28] I'm wearing a big scarf Spielberg's the only person He is German yeah yeah yeah Spielberg's the only person who survived Trying to make an unmade And at the time he was butchered for It he was it was it was the The sort of the millstone around

[00:33:44] The neck of them but it almost feels like a cursed Thing anytime a guy's like I'm going to Open up the archives don't touch Some Stanley Kubrick script because People will just compare you to right like A Mark Forster maybe couldn't

[00:33:56] Dare you know but Carrie Fukunaga is saying Like and now time for Napoleon is that what he's doing well he's well This is my point it feels Like don't open that fucking bottle AI right AI is The is the Kubrick screenplay that Spielberg Made that's right 27 dresses

[00:34:12] Was him that's true But I feel like a lot of people don't know that well A very different take on them with you it was 28 what if they Shaved one dress what if it was like AI And and they Were like well she really lightened it up

[00:34:26] Any Fletcher was like no no no my version Was much darker yeah I added all the dark Stuff to 27 dresses it was My idea to cast Eigle Marston's so good in that movie You know who's good in everything James Marston Other than x2 go on he's not right

[00:34:42] Next to the bad next to and it Is bad he's bad Just fine I interviewed Him during the pandemic because I was watching he was on like 18 Shows at one point he's done a lot of Stuff and I was like what's his deal and

[00:34:56] So I just literally emailed his publicist was like can I talk to him I'm just wanted to figure Out what his deal is very nice guy but he Was like yeah you know I was in I was living in them where I grew up

[00:35:06] In like North South Dakota or whatever Kansas and you Know and I finished school and I got In my car and I drove to California and I started working in that later that week it was Like cool For you he's from Oklahoma Oklahoma City and indeed

[00:35:22] He just drove on sounds like He basically just drove on to the set of the nanny and They were like sure you want a recurring role I have often contended From my baby I'll do Walter Matthau You tro tro by Walter Matthau Fuck you Season four

[00:35:38] Why is this guy rubbing pussy in my face I don't even know him Another oh no go ahead No I James Marsden in my mind Perfect career I think it's a great career I think I think I'm right I'm with you though that even though I don't

[00:35:52] Think he's bad in the X-Men movies it's weird that He played a fairly iconic Comic book character and no one Remembers that no or wants to talk About he did it before it was a thing to do yes Exactly when it was like well who's gonna play fucking

[00:36:04] Cyclops get some Canadian TV actor Yeah We just need a jaw Another movie Kubrick Wanted to do is a movie called I stole 16 million dollars Which is a good title it is a good title even Now you can be interested to know about some

[00:36:20] Yeah he wrote it with Jim Thompson his old collaborator and was About a prohibition era safecracker Okay and it's another one of those Movies scripts that people keep Claiming they're gonna revive No series Love taking things Off the Kubrick shelf and being like I can

[00:36:38] Make this who do you think could make It you know like I've been made not that Specifically but like who could be the air Apparent to his Style the problem is I think Anyone who could be the air apparent To his style understands It's stupid to literally

[00:36:54] Pick one of his own made product right I mean people will bring up like Wes Anderson Or PTA or Nolan or anyone Who's famous for control Older people but it's Right it's a century though imagine yeah All these people you know right it's a millstone

[00:37:08] To try and none of them would fucking touch It like right I think the only reason AI works by the way is because they already Were working on it together yeah And Spielberg actually knew Stanley Kubrick A little different from like whatever you

[00:37:20] Know someone who's obsessed with his movies Right I think it's like it's a fool's Errand to be like I'm gonna try to make the movie He wanted to make and it's a fool's errand To be like I'm just taking this material and doing my own

[00:37:30] Thing with it but material that's Mostly known for being an unmade Stanley Kubrick thing who's on the level as far as Intensity Nancy Meyers Fincher's intense but more Friendly it seems like more personable Fincher seems like I mean like I think it's sort of similar though with Kubrick

[00:37:48] And Fincher maybe not Fincher does Seem nicer just in general but it's like Everyone who loves Fincher Like they'll go to war for him right And then when you say like doesn't he make People like take 80 takes of fucking opening

[00:38:00] A door and they're like that's just like good Work that's just getting good work out of Right like they'll they're just like it's just discipline And also just he runs like a really professional Right he doesn't like fuck around But I Kubrick doesn't strike me

[00:38:12] As particularly charming no It was like pleasant right whereas Fincher is like nice like it's like a Funny guy yeah I mean I interviewed Him and I mean like Wes Anderson's very exacting but all the actors Are like he's it's it gets a little

[00:38:26] Meticulous it could be a little maddening sometimes He like directs you by the centimeter But He like creates a great environment all the Actors are in the same hotel and they host big Dinners every night so part of the appeal is like you

[00:38:38] Go to some European country and There's like a banquet with 20 of the best like Character actors in the world you get Custom luggage right initials On it like all these other Guys who are that intense Some of those pajamas maybe With a collar yeah yeah

[00:38:54] Successful there's a there's a notion Of it being more fun and then the guys who Really sort of fashion themselves after Kubrick In the intensity are guys like Mark Romanek who end up sort of being their own worst

[00:39:04] Enemy right where it's like why would anyone take it down Yeah yeah you're taking too long to do Anything okay Marlon Brando Had seen the killing and had Seen paths of glory and thought Kubrick was great he's Working on a western Called the authentic death of Henry Jones

[00:39:24] And they were working on it with Peckinpah I guess writing It and he wants Kubrick to direct it Peckinpah Sam Peckinpah It's a good name it would be Cool if his name was Peckinpah Like he was some sort of Chicken dad Right yes David can you read

[00:39:44] The quotes that JJ pulled up from Brando about Kubrick because I thought these Were really good sure just To say yeah right well Kubrick comes aboard The quote yes okay here's the Quote Stanley is unusually Perceptive and delicately attuned to people

[00:40:00] This is the quote you mean right he is an adroit Intellect and is a creative thinker not a Repeater not a fact gatherer he Suggests what he learns and he brings a new To a new project an original point of View and a reserved passion

[00:40:12] Is that the quote yeah I thought that was really fucking good It's true well it's just like a very Precise and intelligent Quote from a guy that I think Now we think of as being like I like Stanley Kubrick because he seems like a real cool guy

[00:40:24] I don't know now we have this cartoon version I thought you done got shot in the throat Have you been offer pilled yet Richard I watched I think The first two or three So at that point if you cut

[00:40:36] Off one of your limbs you can stop the infection For sure right You made the sacrifice But I feel like I keep hearing People do the Matthew Good voice It's like oh I want to spend more time With that I want to watch more of it

[00:40:50] You and good performance Everyone says he's the good performance Yeah he's not the star right it's like It's ready is the main character yeah but I was in it a lot he's the second Lead okay and especially in the latter half

[00:41:02] Of the season they kind of start to pin the emotional Arc on his sort of Overcoming the heartbreak Of Ali McGraw and he's pretty fucking Effective I love Matthew Good but it's also It's the kind while being The only tasteful performance in the show

[00:41:16] It's also so over the top that it's Also fun who plays Brando Justin Chambers from Grey's Anatomy Why do you even have to ask obviously Why why did you even ask When you saw Karev in season one of Grey's Anatomy

[00:41:28] I guess I get the look a little bit That's wild there's a scene where he Comes up with the look for the Don in real time Right that is like David's impression of Brando right now What if I put tissue

[00:41:42] Paper in my cheeks right now I gotta watch You gotta watch it I guess he kind of Looks like Brando like it's one of those things where you're like What and then you see pictures of him Yeah and you're like this isn't great

[00:41:54] But it kinda looks like Brando If you put the makeup on him When the Steve Jobs Ashton Kutcher Movie came out I remember someone Tweeting Ashton Kutcher Steve Jobs Great casting And idiot playing a genius And it does feel like One of those things where it's like

[00:42:14] You can't cast a guy who's an Okay TV actor as Marlon Brando No offense to Justin Chambers I mean he was never in the top ten of good Grey's Anatomy actors You can't just cast that part on look What if he's listening He's a big blankie

[00:42:32] He's a house hawk I didn't say shit Yeah you love Chambers I watched the offer clips I love your work I showed Ben clips and he said I feel like I'm Losing it Marlon and Peck Marlon and Kubrick start working on this movie

[00:42:50] Brando and Kubrick they fire Sam Peck And Paul because Kubrick wants to rewrite The movie which was maybe a mistake And everything starts Getting crazy Once over the summer Kubrick and Brando are writing together Over the summer they're working at Brando's House Brando required that anyone

[00:43:12] Entering the house take off their shoes To not damage his teak floors Kubrick took off His pants as well And would work in a dress shirt And underwear Sort of a weird look But very Brando-y look Brando would sit in a lotus position On the floor and strike

[00:43:32] A gong with a leather mallet And the two thought discussions were getting off track Which maybe we should introduce to Blank Jack You guys are sitting in your underwear So you might as well And this would apparently cause Dishes to rattle in Brando's kitchen

[00:43:48] So that's the vibe that's going on What do you guys think? I mean it sounds like season 2 of The Offer That's what I'm saying And then Kubrick gets the rights to Lolita Which he wants to make I'm crazy about it from the word go

[00:44:04] Like the second this book comes out And so they're obsessed with that This movie of course is One Eyed Jax The movie that Brando is working on Eventually people start leaving Because it's getting really annoying At a certain point Kubrick says he doesn't know

[00:44:18] What the film is about So he quits Brando reaches out to Elia Kazan Then Sidney Lumet and then decides to direct it himself Have you ever seen One Eyed Jax? No I know people love it It's like a bizarre But for a 1961 movie I think it's interesting

[00:44:36] What makes it bizarre? It's like a weird Comic western That's got Brando in it I don't know It's got an odd tone For the material The moral of this story is Stanley Kubrick Just wasted two more years Hanging out with Brando Banging a gong

[00:44:58] I want to adapt this unadaptable book And I'm not making that movie And he's still under a Douglas contract But Douglas has no interest in making Lolita No Even producing it He's sort of in the territory of potentially Becoming Mark Romanek now

[00:45:14] Where it's like is this little precious director man Who can't get anything off the ground Is too difficult, is too exacting He does say That when Brando decided to direct it himself He felt like that Was a real mitzvah Because if he had successfully hired someone

[00:45:30] Like Kazan or Lumet or whatever It would have looked like well Kubrick couldn't cut it And instead it's like no Brando's crazy Brando's just crazy and wants to do his own thing He lost two years of his life But it didn't damage his reputation

[00:45:42] That's fair. On the other side of things Kirk Douglas is working on stuff He starts working on a Spartacus movie And then there's a race Because Yul Brynner is also working on a Spartacus movie Called The Gladiators

[00:45:54] And they're in a race of who can get this movie going first It's two different books adapted Yes, exactly And so Wait, what's that I hear? Splash splash splash That's the sound of a typewriter in the bathtub Griffin Because who does Kirk Douglas hire

[00:46:12] To write this movie in two weeks I am the one Who types in the bathtub Dalton Trumbo himself How did you know Dalton Trumbo wrote this movie Ben I saw the name and I thought tub fucker To be fair, no one forgets Dalton Trumbo It's a good name

[00:46:34] This is one of the things that gives Douglas a good reputation That ages well He was super against the blacklist He hired a blacklisted writer He gives him the name of Sam Jackson After his future favorite actor They were going to do Charlton Dumbo At some point

[00:46:52] But the studio sniffs it out They sniff it out because All the screenplay pages are covered in bathwater Who the hell is Bryan Cranston And He churns out a script So fast Which, you know, good for him Especially a fucking long ass historically sourced

[00:47:16] Script like this or whatever It's like the Nathan's hot dog eating contest Where they dip the hot dogs in the water So they drown faster He's got the water all around them The fingers get lubricated He's like sliding all over that fucking thing And so

[00:47:36] They decide, the gladiators are supposed to shoot in Europe Douglas decides to shoot it in Los Angeles Which is easier And so He gets the rights to Spartacus And eventually the other movie dies They do a thing too where Variety

[00:47:50] Who was the other studio that was doing the Yul Brynner one? I think it's UA They announced We are going ahead with the gladiators starring Yul Brynner A budget of 5.5 million dollars And then Kirk Douglas bought out and had Variety And he was like

[00:48:04] Universal is doing Spartacus at a budget of 5.5 plus 1 dollar Right, right 5.5 million and 2 dollars Is how he put it And Anthony Mann As you mentioned, Richard is hired to direct the film Saul Bass Is brought on to do the titles Those titles are incredible

[00:48:24] And Saul Bass is also actively involved in pre-production On the Anthony Mann version And is helping design the look Is doing location scouting He goes to Death Valley This is him looking at Death Valley But they ended up in Spain for some of it They did

[00:48:40] That comes later Kubrick who insists on Spain Right, when Kubrick takes over At that point The big battle sequence Was supposed to be more What's the word I'm looking for? I don't know Suggestive Suggestive rather than a full on epic thing Sure, you don't really see the battle

[00:49:02] Right, and it was sort of abstract And he was like We have fucking Kirk Douglas with a sword You need to have him ride a horse Universal said you couldn't afford it And so he was like What is the cheapest possible country

[00:49:16] Where I can get the most people And so then the argument won We're skipping ahead here I'll do all the exterior stuff in Spain I'll do all the interior stuff in Hollywood But at first, they're in Death Valley They're shooting this with Anthony Mann Douglas hates Anthony Mann

[00:49:32] Says he's letting Peter Ustinov take control of the production A weird, I mean It sounded like they shot it chronologically But those tensions between actors Was apparently the kind of Animating force of the whole production Above the title on this movie And you're just like

[00:49:48] The amount of ego that must have been thrown around At every possible moment And then this young director who's just like I want the entire world to bend at my whims I'm dealing with six guys who all Want to be the loudest voice in the room

[00:50:00] But Anthony Mann essentially directed the first ten minutes Of this film Yes, a good chunk of those early Gladiator scenes Certainly, I think the very opening It's two weeks of work You know, it's something They fire him Supposedly Kubrick had always been Douglas' first choice or whatever

[00:50:18] Who knows Calls him, he's at a poker game And he's told you have 24 hours Report to the studio, you'll be directing It's like Saturday and it's like you'll start on Monday Yeah And Stanley Kubrick did it because he wanted money Money

[00:50:34] And he wanted to start moving out of this contract He had with Kirk Douglas And he's like 32 years old And so he's showing up To this gigantic production looking like a baby Yeah And I think the whole crew is like who is this fucking twerp

[00:50:48] Like, you know, he has to deal with that You know Especially because he's already Tony Curtis says they all screwed him around Right, yeah, he's not a big bossy guy Tony Curtis was the only one he seemingly got along well with And Tony Curtis had that bizarre quote

[00:51:02] Where he's like, we got along Because we were only interested in talking about two things How pictures are made and our dicks Maybe they love talking about their dicks I didn't realize Stanley Kubrick was David Sims Look As always Who does Stanley Kubrick fight with the most

[00:51:22] The fucking cinematographer It's always this, it's always some old In these early films he makes Some old grizzled film cinematographer And he's like, you can't tell me what to do And Stanley Kubrick's like, if you don't change that lens To a long lens, I will assassinate you Immediately

[00:51:38] There's that story, can you read verbatim The story with the DP kicking the light Do you know the one I'm talking about It's in here As you're looking for this I am somewhat surprised that Kubrick never went Full Soderbergh and just shot the movies himself

[00:51:52] Especially because he had a photography background And you assume that If he wanted to become A B-level cinematographer He could have taken the time And he essentially won a cinematography Oscar for this But couldn't accept it because it was in the other guy's name

[00:52:06] Right, like why wasn't he operating the camera himself It just feels like it would have saved him a lot of It probably would have I'm sure union rules were one reason Sure The light story is In one of my favorite scenes In the movie when Herbert Long

[00:52:22] Playing the merchant guy Comes to meet with Spartacus Oh yeah, that is a good scene Where they make the deal and he's like You're gonna lose I just love that scene But they're talking about that scene And at a certain point Kubrick's fucking with things

[00:52:40] He goes over to Russ Meddy And he says I can't see the actor's faces And Russ Meddy His face turns purple He's fuming in his little chair So angry And he lifts up his foot And he throws one of the lights a kick And it just falls

[00:52:58] Or I guess it skids into the scene He kicks a light on set Yes And then it rolls in And he looks at Kubrick and he says now is there enough light And Kubrick looks at it and looks back at him

[00:53:10] And he says now there's too much light Which is great Yeah It's pretty funny But I mean like Curtis says We were only interested in our dicks I don't know how a picture was being shot I guess he's saying we were in our 30s Sure

[00:53:28] So it's like we were boys around town Or maybe they were specifically interested in their dicks And only that I'm interested in both interpretations Sure I could imagine Stanley Kubrick very clinically talking about his own penis And what fascinated him about it

[00:53:42] Not too long, bends, you know whatever Curtis is like no kidding We're both from the Bronx We got real Bronx dicks Honest dicks Come on Hard work Not these Hollywood dicks These are the dicks that haven't worked a day in their lives

[00:54:00] These dicks got city miles on them My grandfather's dick was a longshoreman I want my son's dick to be the first dick that goes to college Kubrick's been married three times already at this point Or is out of his second marriage

[00:54:14] Sure, I mean it's some of those marriages Where they got married so they could be roommates But yeah He's on his third marriage Yes, his final marriage Third marriage at 32 He obviously liked women I still just imagine the way Tony Curtis talks about

[00:54:30] Going out in the town and cruising Is very different than the way Stanley Kubrick talked about It doesn't seem like a natural comment It's Ryan Gosling and Steve Carell What is that movie? Crazy Stupid Love He should be wearing a 32 And Olivier is the classic Big boss

[00:54:48] Where he's basically directing the actors himself In any scene that he's in And was Gene Simmons famous for Kiss already? Oh my goodness Why did I invite you on this August miniseries And she wanted to do it in the full makeup, right? She did, she asked

[00:55:06] And they said no And she's like well I could be the star child If you look in the back in some scenes she's going Ah, look at that man I feel like her biggest movie is Guys and Dolls She's won the Oscar already And she had

[00:55:20] Had she won the Oscar? She won Best Actress for Guys and Dolls? No, she did not She did win a Golden Globe But not Best Actress at the Oscars I think her only Oscar nomination is for Hamlet Which she's in with Mr. Lawrence Olivier Before this

[00:55:38] And then she gets another one for the happy ending I don't think she ever won an Oscar Um, no But yeah, you have Neither Hunter has already been made Lawton's already directed and has directed a lot of theater Olivier obviously Has directed a Best Picture winner

[00:55:54] 100%, he's a big director Douglas is the producer on this movie Is the guy getting this made And it sounds like Ustinov is throwing his fucking weight around too Like, you know, even he's no king This movie has like five potential directors On it Or at least five people

[00:56:10] And you're having scenes Like there's this Norman Lloyd who had worked with Kubrick before Described as a scene where like You know, Lawton's doing some speech And Olivier's like No, you should do it like this And Lawton's like, well what do you mean

[00:56:24] And then Olivier just sits in his chair and is like Here's how I would do it And acts the scene They're just all doing it themselves Because they're all these big shots Those guys, that generation I feel like was incredibly competitive Yeah, no, it's true

[00:56:38] It's thrilling to watch Olivier and Lawton Do their kind of, you know, Trot the boards sort of old salt Theater shit And then Tony Curtis John Gavin as Caesar No, the other guy who plays The one who loses initially Dahl, something John Dahl

[00:57:00] He sounds kind of just like 1950s American guy It's just a really funny mix of styles I feel like Kirk Douglas Is on the Tony Curtis side of things But he kind of blends it He's so theatrical It works though that The slaves all have Americanish accents

[00:57:22] And then when we're in the senate It's all these British It's just wild seeing Tony Curtis in a bathtub With Lawrence Olivier And them talking at each other And they could not be more different They're the ones who cross over the most Of the two sides

[00:57:38] They have the most scenes together Ustinov weirdly to me Feels like the most modern performance I fully agree It feels like Oliver Reed and Gladiator Or like Watto It's kind of He has a very Watto-esque performance The opening chunk, the opening hour

[00:57:58] I was like, and this is not a criticism I was sort of astounded that it Worked and it didn't break the reality of the movie But it's like, oh it feels like He's giving a performance out of history of the world part one

[00:58:08] No I know what you mean He's kind of camping it up A little bit in that early part And then the surprising thing And it's a lot of fun The surprising thing is in the last half hour When he's able to bring a real pathos to it

[00:58:22] That's when he fucking brings The hammer down and you're like, okay I get why This was a remembered performance Whereas like Olivier Is so fun to watch But you're like, yeah sure He can do this shit anytime It's like the fact that Yusnov is able to be

[00:58:38] The hammiest and the most grounded Of all of them is kind of astounding I do love Olivier though Because he can just literally say a word like And he just says the word And it sounds like a sentence Is there some story about Is it Lawton and Olivier

[00:58:58] Dragging out a scene that's not in the movie But they had three lines of dialogue Like call, response, call And they dragged it out for like 20 minutes because they were trying to one up each other I think I read that This is that competition shit

[00:59:12] I feel like these guys, if you put two of them in a movie It would be like a power game And if you put four of them in a movie It would be Calamitous It's surprising that this movie Didn't become Cleopatra It is, especially given that

[00:59:30] It brings in a new director In the middle basically of production And has so much pressure on him And that it's budget more than doubled It's schedule went way over It cost 12 million dollars Which is like the equivalent of 110 million dollars

[00:59:44] Now, which obviously movies cost more than that now But that is not the kind of Budget you see on these movies Apart from something like Cleopatra Which cost a fortune upon fortune And nearly tanked the entire studio And also Cleopatra is one of those movies where

[00:59:58] It's not like the gray man, no offense Which we were just discussing, how did this cost 200 million dollars Like Cleopatra You're like, I can see how this was the most expensive thing ever made No, no They're basically dragging pyramids around Cleopatra feels impossible

[01:00:12] Like you watch it today and you're just like I don't understand how any of this was constructed I don't understand how they got this many bodies I feel this way about this sometimes too These sets are really good When they're either in a battle

[01:00:24] Or really just kind of like migrating South or wherever they're going Where you're like, that's so many people And that's not CGI obviously Like they just, the scope feels impressive There's some map painting stuff Obviously there's lots of that But like yeah, the crowds are huge

[01:00:40] There's sort of nothing more impressive Than just like a wide shot that is full Yeah Where you're just like, oh you're not faking that There's that much in frame right now You think about like the fucking end battle Of Endgame and the big lineup of everybody Right

[01:00:56] And you know that most of them were on set at the same time For that part at least And you're just like, if that was not shot In a green screen space If they had shot that in a random field Rather than in like a void

[01:01:08] That shot would be so much more impressive It'd be very cool Cause when you get to the battlefield in this And you're just like, God look how many fucking people there are But Thanos isn't in Spartacus So that's a count against Spartacus

[01:01:20] God, can you imagine Thanos and fucking Lawton Trying to one up each other Room is on its last legs And Thanos is like building some spear I don't know But you know Charles Lawton did enter the Speed Force Later in his career

[01:01:34] Yeah, and it was a big cheer moment for us all Have you ever seen a photo of him entering the Speed Force No, I mean it's just a blur But of It's actually just someone dropped a camera

[01:01:44] Later they said, well what drives Lawton to enter the Speed Force Someone made up the weirdest lie About just an accidental photo But where they put He put numbers by all the Extras who were playing dead bodies And he would call out like, hey 76

[01:01:58] Be more dead or whatever And then they would take all the numbers away And then shoot it But it's just like you see the photo and it's like There's over 100 people just lying on a hill Waiting to figure it out It sounds exhausting to even be told that

[01:02:12] Just that thought process Exhausts me I saw this on Wikipedia but cited to A Kubrick book So I think this is a verifiable source That Universal was like You know, he's joining this movie A couple weeks in, right

[01:02:32] He's a fucking young book filmmaker who hasn't made a hit yet And they're like So just so you know in terms of just like workflow We'd like there to be like 30 camera setups a day And Kubrick was like Okay I'm gonna give you two Yes and they

[01:02:46] Compromised on eight I believe Yeah but that's insane To go from 32 to 2 And that they landed closer to his ass Much closer Is just wild How long did it take to shoot? A couple days. Spartacus? Let's see You look at big sequences like that

[01:03:06] And you're just like how long does it fucking take to reset this The act alone of putting All those numbers out And taking them away And there's fucking horses and shit Those flaming barrels The logs Those seem effective Obviously so much of this movie

[01:03:24] Is like Ridley Scott went Yoink yoink yoink Like I'm taking all this It's way more than I realized You had never seen this I had never seen it This is really the main thing the gladiators are effing on The first half is special

[01:03:40] Why are there no flaming rolling logs Oh the gladiator has tigers Chariots You guys aren't impressed I feel like I'm gonna say this now I've always had a hard time with gladiator And I had a bit of a hard time with this movie

[01:03:56] And I wonder if there's just some block there In both cases I watch it and I'm like this is very impressive Well crafted I can't believe you got this much You put all these elements there on the day I find the story is a little hard

[01:04:10] To crack into It did make me appreciate gladiator A little bit more I think like I understand Why gladiator became such a big hit That it found sort of more emotional ends There's the line that Cooper Had about this movie where he was just like

[01:04:26] My fundamental regret of the movie Is the central character Who I never fucking figured out He's got no flaws and no quirks Spartacus is just this absolutely divine figure He hated the I am Spartacus stuff Which I think the I am Spartacus works But that line really

[01:04:42] It's so much more subtle than I thought it would be Because I'd seen the clips and I was like Oh it's gonna be this big rousing Oh it's short It's also not the last moment In the movie which it could be Like you don't really need 20 extra minutes

[01:04:58] I mean I like the end of this movie a lot But it could just be like and then no one gave Spartacus up And they all fucking died But the I read through the dossier Before I watched the movie It's not a brag

[01:05:12] I'm saying it was a mistake because then when I landed on that quote Of Spartacus has no flaws No flaws and no quirks That was ringing in my head the entire movie Where I was like he fucking nailed him I disagree with

[01:05:24] Staying in the Man, I love this movie This movie is great Spartacus is just supposed to, he represents the collective That's what this movie is about What is frightening to the Roman Empire The Roman Republic is that they are Bonded, these men And all of the people

[01:05:40] The underclass And perversely by their own doing It's the Romans fault that all of these people From disparate places have now formed this thing And I love that old bathtub boy Dalton himself who even though They call him whatever A cocktail communist He wasn't even that fucking lefty

[01:05:58] Sure he was on the blacklist He's like sure You want me to make a movie about this It'll be about the rot of slavery And how it eats away At institutions I respect this movie You don't have to respect it You can danger field this movie

[01:06:16] I'll give it some respect I'll give it some respect If this movie I'm going to ladybugs this movie I don't know what that means but I'll figure it out I'm just going to put a wig on You want to meet Wally Sparks this movie

[01:06:32] Oh wow I forgot about that movie It took a second I had to dig through Bobble my bag to find that one But there's I think just certain things I think you're right The sword and sandal thing has never really connected With me I think the Heston movies

[01:06:48] Of this era have just a little more Bombast to them which breaks through for me Do you like those do you like Ben Hur I understand that this movie Is better Ben Hur is pretty fun But even like

[01:07:02] Ten Commandments which isn't a great movie but is very compelling Ten Commandments is also Bananas it has magic in it I like And Heston is so fucking over the top In these things And he's really doing that with the red seat Right They got him for real

[01:07:20] Have you guys seen there was a tweet I don't know a couple weeks ago At this point of like someone being Like man TV in the 80s really Took it's time or is in no hurry And it's like the opening minutes of an episode of Magnum P.I.

[01:07:32] And it's like it's just him getting out of his car Taking his shoes off walking down the beach Like nothing happens Obviously now it would be Like you'd be right in the action and watching this I'm like okay so you go to the theater

[01:07:44] You're like this is this big expensive Hollywood epic Action swords all that stuff And then there are these long scenes With two old British fruits Talking about what will become of Rome Yeah yeah yeah And it still was the most successful movie of the year I know

[01:08:00] Even for the Oscars It's not best picture material But I think back then it was like we're going to Goddamn pictures we're gonna sit in a gorgeous Movie house and we're gonna see like A thing with an intermission That's got like so much And is loaded with Stars

[01:08:18] And Cleopatra was like the end of an era Because it was just like it was The moment of escalation of just years And years of being like if you pick a name from history That everyone knows You load every fucking star and heavyweight actor

[01:08:30] Into it you throw all the fucking money At the screen You essentially take over a country to film it For four years it will work And Cleopatra was the moment where it felt like the bottom Fell out on that

[01:08:42] It's always like it would cost three times as much as this movie That's Yeah I don't know if any movie looks more expensive than this In history I feel like when I was growing up Cartoons like Animaniacs But also not cartoons

[01:08:58] Animaniacs cost three times as much as Cleopatra They actually make those Animaniacs They lived in that tower There was always a gag If they were on a studio lot There would be in the background Like a Roman soldier walking by And I never really I was like

[01:09:14] I didn't know anything It's just so interesting to look at There was an era when this was so ubiquitous They were like the biggest fucking thing One of my favorite Hollywood movies ever I'm safe saying this now That I've seen it so many times is Hail Caesar

[01:09:28] Which is mocking that The self-important Like we're making a fucking picture here About issues where people are going to get big speeches About God and death And life and all that The silly self-importance of it I mean there are examples of this

[01:09:44] And even the ones that were sort of like mocked And been forgotten by time Where you're like oh there was a movie where that guy played that character Played that historical figure Most of them did well Often, it's what people wanted I guess

[01:09:56] But like you said and then the pendulum is always going to swing the other way Then it's like why aren't we making short punchy movies Like you know it's always going to You do too much in one Here's some other stuff

[01:10:06] Kirk Douglas and Stanley Kubrick are not getting along They got along in the last movie They're under immense pressure with this movie It's so big budget and he's putting all that pressure on Kubrick They're fighting all the time I think the difference was like

[01:10:18] Path of Glory maybe he's like I like you I want to be in a movie that you're making And this one Douglas is like you're working for me I hired you And Kubrick comes in and is like no I'm making this A Stanley Kubrick movie

[01:10:30] At one point they're told to sit together To take a session together With Kirk Douglas' psychiatrist So that Kubrick could better understand Kirk Douglas The psychiatrist tells Kubrick to read Traum Novel or Dream Story The Arthur Schintzler book that he's going to turn into

[01:10:46] Eyes Wide Shut 30 plus years later Which Kirk Douglas called The lousiest picture Rude He was like 100 million years old By that point right He was 100 years old for like 30 years in my head Yeah also in Kirk Douglas' defense He didn't live long enough to see Jurassic World Dominion

[01:11:04] That's true True lousiest picture Kubrick and Douglas both liked The silent film technique of playing music On set To set the tone for the actors So Gene Simmons would perform When she wasn't shooting She wanted to rock and roll you all night Do you like Kiss? No

[01:11:28] I know you like Kiss Are you into Kiss because of the merch? You know what Honestly probably was the gateway for me I'd walk into comic book stores And be like what's this band doing here What was that movie in the late 90s

[01:11:42] About the kids who were obsessed with Kiss Detroit Rock City And the kid from Jungle to Jungle was in it Which is why I wanted to see him do it Richard he makes so much sense As an early Lawson crush I like that replacements cover of Black Diamond

[01:11:56] I made an impassioned plea To ARP I put forward my thesis That the Fast and Furious movies Are the Kiss of film Sure Okay where you're like this is probably Poisonous in some way But it's also very well executed And there's a weird earnestness And attention to detail

[01:12:20] That overcomes everything else It's super macho but weirdly family friendly And nerdy And he was like no the difference is That Kiss fans still get mocked For liking Kiss like it's not cool to like Kiss And I'm like the Fast and Furious movies

[01:12:34] Are like the most popular movies in the world And yet they're still like the punching bag Right Before we move on from Kiss I just want to share this thing It's one of my favorite things on the internet of all time It is audio of Paul Stanley

[01:12:50] Doing kind of crowd work between songs Where it's like just his vocal track Isolated And it is some of the most insane Stage banter And just crazy shit That you have ever heard in your entire life I highly recommend it We'll link to it on the feed

[01:13:10] I really like this story It's about Woody Strode who we mentioned Who was really good in the movie He's like captivating You're genuinely like oh no I wanted more of him It's a thing where it almost feels like When you're watching Gladiator

[01:13:26] Ridley Scott was like what if we keep him alive The whole movie We have that character Goes a long way in that film And obviously Woody Strode If people don't know had been one of the first black Football players in the NFL And like then Transitions to acting

[01:13:44] And so Alexander Singer puts it as he was this man Of innate dignity So you just put the camera on and you're already getting something He's one of those guys who just He's like I'm gonna be honest on screen And so in that

[01:13:56] But he wasn't someone you would Traditionally direct Where you're saying Is this what I'm gonna do I'm gonna kill my friend So instead apparently Stanley would just play music And he says I'll never forget the power of the music What happened to Strode's face as the music played

[01:14:12] You could watch his face As it was happening The music was a Prokofiev concerto A haunting passage A little bit longing A kind of love story and the effect on Strode was visible Was this for his final close up I think it must have been

[01:14:28] Which is such a good and he does get that Globe nomination Or maybe a win He looks fucking incredible in this movie It is one of those things even from that opening scene Where Spartacus tries to introduce himself And he's like I don't meet people

[01:14:40] I'm gonna have to kill you later You're just like let's spend more time with this guy I was so excited when they get into the ring And then it's kind of a bummer when he dies And also when he throws the trident Into the stands

[01:14:52] And it's like that's literally in Gladiator Except Russel Crowe does it And it's like come on Ridley I understand the real story here But I was just like I want to watch this guy This is the guy I want to follow Oh fully yeah

[01:15:08] Because he also feels like more leader It feels like In a short time That guy could do this The last movie ever Was Quick and the Dead We recently covered him He did have a long career He's in lots of things

[01:15:26] Last Voyage, he's in Man Who Shot Liberty Balance He gets credited as being the namesake For the character in Toy Story I think Pixar has admitted that Because he was the cowboy Woody of his time There you go I just rewatched Four It's really good Good movie

[01:15:44] The Boss Baby One of the few things that will keep her eyes on screen Well those bath toys too Those are like her bath toys You know I'll say this I was talking to my friend Derek

[01:15:56] Who I similarly bought a bunch of Toy Story toys for his daughter When she was born And those are her favorite movies And I was like did I successfully indoctrinate By placing these characters in the home So that when you put it on the TV

[01:16:08] The Boss Baby is recognizing Oh the bathtub friend Back to Sportacus I think that's why she loves her Jessie Anyway as you say Kubrick doesn't like the movie He says it had everything but a good story He says it feels like it was written in a bathtub

[01:16:26] I don't know why he said that It's a weird quote from him Hey why is my script so wet Trumbo's script only alluded To the final battle And Kubrick was like We need a fucking battle scene Which is funny because you almost think

[01:16:44] Kubrick might be the guy who's like oh that's interesting And instead Kubrick's like I'm making an epic over here Let me have some guys running at each other It speaks to him knowing that he needed a hit That he's just like people are gonna fucking

[01:16:54] I'll never get hired again if this movie doesn't show a battle So Saul Bass helps With that sequence that you guys are kind of talking about Where it's like you see these squares Right these geometric Roman legions that are like Charging as like units

[01:17:08] And the slaves are like a much less Regimented force And they're like throwing fire at them The contrast is so striking Visually and Saul Bass apparently Was huge on that He wanted to have that Dichotomy between the soulless Romans And the soulful slave army

[01:17:26] Saul Bass king of shapes So silly to just line up like that To fight to the death They were really good at it though I mean they kind of like conquered the known world I don't know if you know about this The Romans? Yeah I'm aware

[01:17:40] I just always think I'd walk up to the front lines They're real hard asses I think of like the Wet Hot American Summer scene Where they just go like This feels trite let's just not do this Where they give up the baseball game

[01:17:52] Like I would march to the front lines and go How about we both just fucking take off In a dry afternoon Rolling some flame logs at ya What were you gonna say Rob? Oh I was just gonna say that I was reading about the guy that

[01:18:06] Olivier is playing, the real guy And shortly after these events he died In like the worst Roman defeat ever Because he made his troops get in a square And it was the wrong strategy to take Should have done a fucking pentagon He messed up

[01:18:20] And that's why the pentagon is shaped that way by the way They knew If you were up close It's all people There's no walls No Crassus is interesting because he was like That's who Olivier plays, he was like the richest man alive In Rome when he lived

[01:18:36] And you're like oh how did Oh that's interesting why was he the richest man alive And you look it up and it's like real estate speculation And you're like You can make 3000 Crassus' in And he's fucking Trump He was all about this It is worth that now

[01:18:52] It is what's sort of depressing about this movie As we're dealing with this constant question Is society collapsing? And you watch a movie about ancient Rome And the societal collapse And you're just like we kind of keep making a lot of the same mistakes As much as we

[01:19:06] This was the most enlightened civilization Up until that point in time And they completely fucking did themselves in And it feels like we're similarly overthinking ourselves They had 500 years before it all fell apart Don't worry We've had a couple good centuries But we based our system of government

[01:19:22] On the senate Uh oh Whoopsie Who is the Joe Manchin of ancient Rome? Like just a Devaluation of people You know I don't think I think this movie today about Starbucks employees walking out If you made this film today And I have to go I'm sorry

[01:19:48] No it's okay You're gonna come with me? I gotta go too Lawrence Olivier playing Howard Schultz The portrayal of politicians It's like they're just always been sleazy I know It's so funny how they refer themselves as the senate in this movie I am the senate And even Gracchus

[01:20:08] The Charles Lawton character who's like the better one Is still kind of bad He's corrupt He wants to kill Spartacus too No one is pro-Spartacus It's just how anti-Spartacus everyone is But even you saying how funny it is every time this movie will cut

[01:20:22] To these like old bored Treaders hamming it up in this room Deciding the fates of all these like crazy Epic people on a battlefield and whatever And you're like yeah it is insane We just let a bunch of old guys go into a big room

[01:20:34] And just wear suits and ties And just decide everything What the fuck are you talking about? Well they're not wearing suits and ties in this movie They're wearing nice robes Yeah but maybe if we put them in robes things would be better Yeah they'd be better

[01:20:48] They'd feel a little looser They'd air it out It's hot down there So They make this movie At a certain point apparently Edward Lewis who's like the guy Standing in for the script He's lending his name He starts to feel uncomfortable about it

[01:21:08] And he says I don't want to be I don't want to use my name for this And Kubrick apparently at one point was like look I hate the script But if you want to put my name on it Like why don't we just do that

[01:21:18] And Kirk Douglas is like no I'm actually gonna You know break tradition Bring Dalton Trumbo's name into the foreground But like I guess there's the suggestion Of maybe he was like fuck you Stan Like I'm not gonna do that No I guess we'll just yeah

[01:21:34] Right and the fact that this movie was a hit And that most famously John F. Kennedy went to see it When he was in office It flips the whole thing around It's like enough of this shit This movie single handedly essentially breaks the blacklist

[01:21:48] And having Trumbo's name on it and having it be such a hit They were just like oh we can't Lower power over these people anymore It doesn't matter They're not afraid anymore There's no onus on this Um Kubrick These are contemporary Sorry yeah contemporary press

[01:22:06] Complained about how he hates directing There are thousands of decisions that have to be made If you don't make them yourself And you're not on the same wavelength as everyone else It's very painful This movie is the worst milieu for creative work Ever devised by man

[01:22:20] It is noisy and physical It's difficult to concentrate You have to do it five days a week Ten hours a day It's not an environment an artist would ever choose to work in These are all fair points Like you go off to paint a picture

[01:22:34] You're like I'm going into my room For weeks don't talk to me Like I'm gonna slowly paint a picture And this is like hey Stanley Do you want like the yellow flowers or the red flowers It makes sense that he spent so much more time in his life

[01:22:48] Designing movies that he would never make than making movies Not because like oh he couldn't get these things made But probably because for him it was like almost as fun to plan everything out Without having to deal with the day to day logistics of doing it

[01:23:02] And I mean the longer his life goes on There's a larger gap in between movies Yes Every progressively He's like deeper and deeper into his armchair And he's like okay Every time he gets to really pull himself out How does he talk about his movies

[01:23:20] I know how he feels about this one But like was he fond In reflection Isn't he says they're mid No I don't know I think the other thing is as time goes on He talks less and less publicly Right but I mean there's the famous thing

[01:23:36] Where he was like right before he died He was like I think Eyes Wide Shut is the best thing I've ever made I do feel like he was always striving for like Some perfect creative process Right and Eyes Wide Shut where he's just like

[01:23:46] We're going to do this thing for years And we'll do as many takes as I want And no one is fucking with me Right it's like Synecdoche But also those stories start to become second hand Stanley told me in the editing room

[01:23:58] That he thought this was the best movie he ever made Like we're still in the The days in which JJ is able to pull up tons of quotes from him Right and it's probably going to get harder and harder That's true

[01:24:12] Right because it's not like for Full Metal Jack He probably wasn't sitting down with Premiere Magazine or whatever There was probably less of that It's funny Can you imagine Collider Frosty Asking Stanley Kubrick his favorite karaoke song And who do you think is going to be in phase 4

[01:24:26] Of the MCU Would you ever direct Fantastic Four That's going to be the next 5 years I hear Feige is going for it Stanley Kubrick sitting in a director's chair And he's like I'm going to be in the Star Magazine Just like Stanley Kubrick to make Splatoon

[01:24:44] This I love and I feel like we will get a lot of these Which is quotes from actors who worked with him later Arliss Howard who is in Full Metal Jack And is my boyfriend I love Arliss Howard The great Arliss Howard Inexplicably British in the Lost World

[01:24:58] Said when he did Spartacus Stanley Kubrick said he was astonished At how many people were allowed to have a voice He was astonished at how many people were allowed to have opinions On the content of the movie Which is like A hilariously naive thing for him to say

[01:25:12] In one way and also like totally Sums up Stanley Kubrick Where he's like Arliss you wouldn't believe it All these guys had some sort of opinion on what Spartacus should look like He was talking about studio notes And his attitude was almost

[01:25:26] I expect them to tell me to make the movie differently I'm not going to listen to them But I expect them to say that Arliss Howard tells the story about Seeing a rep screening Of Spartacus where the marquee said Stanley Kubrick Spartacus

[01:26:10] And he took a picture and sent it to Kubrick And Kubrick was really touched because he felt like Aside from the fact that he This is actually Gregory Novitz Not Stanley Kubrick, sorry Arliss Howard but you're right He went to see the restoration

[01:26:22] And Stanley was like well go see it You know I'm not going to go I'm not crazy about it I have regrets And it said right he took the picture of the marquee And he loved that because Kirk Douglas thought of it as his film

[01:26:32] So he did ask for a photo of it So right so he has some sentiment Even in the 80s he was sort of like That movie is viewed as Douglas' Victory rather than my film Right Not even the movie isn't as good as I thought it would be

[01:26:48] But people don't even think of it I mean when I've been running down what you said David The conversation of people going like Stanley Kubrick What is that 87 movies and I'll list the 13 for them They're like he made Spartacus Oh it's weird I mean it's really weird

[01:27:02] Right you have three early movies that people haven't heard of Right But outside of that every other movie is pretty famous for being a Kubrick movie And this movie's legacy is not that much on Kubrick No not at all It's so

[01:27:14] I mean there are interesting things in it But it's so conventional Because it was for hire and it was supposed to It is conventional It's a movie you could hurt yourself trying to find the Kubrick in And I think the morals of it are pretty Straight forward

[01:27:28] You know where his movies after this Get much more complicated on that front Yeah But you see these little touches of Of personality You know and signature in there But weirdly I think they're In ways that are like Positive Like he'll pause on like a little kid

[01:27:48] Like his grandma like squirting him with the goat smells Or you know This kind of charming scene Between Gracchus and Usanov you know Where they're just kind of like you like women You know like they're just kind of bonding And you're like there's a softer side to it

[01:28:06] But those are the moments where I kind of feel like Oh there's a personality behind the camera Well JJ our beloved researcher Had a little editorialization In the dossier which I appreciate And he was tweeting something similar This week And unsurprisingly you know

[01:28:22] He's the research for this show And then he'll go on his twitter account and he'll tweet Errant thoughts about whatever he's deep into in the research And it seems like For the first time Now twitter bros Coming at him because they're like Kubrick heads Are the most annoying

[01:28:38] Legion of people of any of the directors He's had to sort of Research for us in the last year and a half And they've come out of the woodwork people don't even follow him Whatever but he was sort of talking about his JJ's own interpretation

[01:28:50] Of the Kubrick process Versus how it's often talked about And he wrote this I thought very well in the dossier but The notion of his obsessive takes The legendary sort of always doing 100 takes of every fucking thing And that the perception of it was

[01:29:06] He has this perfect thing in his mind and he's relentless And he won't move on Until he sees the thing exactly How he envisioned it and JJ's like When you read people who worked with him it sounded so much more

[01:29:16] That the thing he was waiting for was for something To surprise him it wasn't that He wanted to see what was in his head He wanted to see something that he could Never come up with and it goes back To the fact that he starts out as

[01:29:28] A documentary filmmaker as a photo Journalist that he was capturing real life That he was able to find these organic sort of Lucky moments all of those Sequences when you see sort of Like the Life of the Rebellion you know Them sort of traveling together the things

[01:29:46] These stolen moments Yeah a lot of children and you're like I thought this was all Going to be men All the stuff with the children is pretty fascinating because it feels like Docudrama it feels Like a refugee crisis that he's filmed Right right

[01:30:00] And they're very sort of well observed But very slight underplayed Moments of humanity that feel Very organic And they harken back to that as sort of His starting point Gotta be real Is he saying that bullshit No don't worry it's never a video it's just a photo

[01:30:18] I like when they laugh Together Especially like seeing Kurt Douglas laugh Go on because he doesn't seem like a big laugher in general Not at all and also just cause it's Like a period piece I don't I mean I haven't seen really truly any

[01:30:36] Of the epics the classic epics But you made me think Of humanity I mean There's like a moment that stuck out to me There's like I think two The egg on the face moment And then I think the two of them laugh together

[01:30:50] When they're reunited cause she was able to run away Oh yeah that's a good scene That stuff feels like it really stands out Kurt Douglas also looks like Like a fucking cigar store wood carving Right And like he barely talks for the first Half of this movie

[01:31:06] Like I think I really clocked at like an hour 20 minutes is the first time He has an extended dialogue scene Yeah Up until that point it's pretty much monosyllabic or One isolated line at the end of a big scene And he's just kind of

[01:31:20] Standing there with gritted teeth stoic Where anytime he is Emotive it is bizarre Like it does sort of strike you There's sort of a garbo laughs thing Going on especially when he's in this patina Of the like the epic And playing the sort of square jawed Hero

[01:31:38] He's like a hall of presidents robot It's odd when he starts doing anything Out of character Yeah no I mean when he laughs in that scene You're like wait what I don't think they meant to leave this in This was like between takes or something

[01:31:52] It feels like Jackie Chan bloopers That is why I love this scene I already mentioned with Herbert Lom too cause it's like Allowing him to be retrospective Or introspective right where he's like You guys are gonna lose There's six legions massing on set

[01:32:06] And Spartacus doesn't have any bravado He's just like calm and he's like yeah I don't know Like and they like look out together And he has that whole thing where he's like Death for a slave is like good in a way It's like your free of pain

[01:32:18] You know it's not like that's later Where he says that to Olivier maybe And not to jump ahead but it's what's interesting about the whole End chunk with Tony Curtis Of the like what's the better outcome here Is it me stabbing you so you don't

[01:32:30] Have to go up on the cross Or you stabbing me Yeah yeah yeah It's a sad ending Right cause they really lose What's the way you wanna die Like they didn't Hollywoodize The ending at all I mean I guess Maybe inventing The only Hollywood right is

[01:32:50] Just her showing him his son but like that's it And even that is pretty fucking sad And who the fuck knows where they're gonna go You know like it's not Whatever is different Cause I mean Gladiator at least sort of lets him Go to heaven

[01:33:04] You know it gets all sort of like And Gladiator he suffers He suffers the immense tragedy of the start Of Gladiator so it's like He's already he's like dead like his wife And children are dead he's like

[01:33:16] I might as well be dead and then he's like building himself Back up from there but he doesn't want To be on the other side It just speaks to me probably being like a conventional Sap or whatever but Gladiator a film I've never fully connected With watching this

[01:33:30] For the first time I understand the value of Like the amount of emotional In points that Ridley Scott was able to Create in the setup of that movie Yeah I love Gladiator I think it's great I gave you my steelbook I'm gonna watch it again now

[01:33:46] Yeah I wanna watch it again after that And like much like this movie As Ridley Scott recognized about this movie Is like loaded up with supporting actors Who are like just Thespian gems you know like that's what Gladiator is all about Or whatever Didn't he like keel over

[01:34:04] In a pub or something That's how Oliver Reed was supposed To go out on some fucking movie And he's just like I think I'll have a 16th and the guy's like Alright and he's like That'll do it It was also one of those things where they were like

[01:34:20] You can hire Oliver Reed as long as you have someone By his side at all times making sure he does not have A single drink And then two weeks in they were just like What are we gonna fucking do

[01:34:30] They were like well he's dead but we can make a CGI version Of him that kinda works It's also wild that it works better than most It does They spent a fortune on it Gladiator an actor died an old guy died

[01:34:42] It's the same year as the fucking Sopranos thing Yeah The Sopranos thing was peanuts Price wise Absolutely but still It's like It's hard to find the scenes You don't know where it is It's hard to notice the CGI It's cool The thing you mentioned is true

[01:35:04] They get out of the Douglas deal I wanna make Lolita Douglas is like I don't wanna do that And also Douglas is like he's an annoying little shit That's the thing You don't have to be a nice person This is Kirk Douglas

[01:35:18] You don't have to be a nice person to be extremely talented You can be a shit and be talented Stanley Kubrick is a talented shit So that's his assessment of him Is the quote in there The Kubrick quote about head vs heart

[01:35:30] Where he's sort of talking about the notion That people in Hollywood don't care And that everyone's a hack just looking for a paycheck Yes The reason Hollywood movies are often so bad Isn't because the people who make them are cynical money hacks

[01:35:42] Most of them are doing the very best they can They really want to make good films The trouble is with their heads not their hearts That's an incredible quote There's a surprising generosity in him Saying like no it's really hard to make movies

[01:35:54] People think this is like a careless business And the people are like cynical about it But really everyone's trying their hardest Yeah And then the Kubrick punch comes at the end Where he's like just most people aren't smart Yeah I was thinking about that weirdly when I was

[01:36:10] Watching where the crawdads sing Oh sure You were watching You sat your ass down and listened to the crawdads sing That's right I was experiencing the crawdads By the way where is it? Did you find out? North Carolina It's around the corner from that one swamp Right

[01:36:32] The second star straight out to the morning And like that book was written by a crazy person It seems Currently involved in her own murder mystery A real life murder mystery But I've read snippets of it There's like style I went to see the movie

[01:36:48] It was the premiere at MoMA Did they give you the coloring books? Oh no They've been doing screenings of this movie And then people are walking out and the studio is handing out adult coloring books Oh god yeah Well we didn't get those

[01:37:02] But like it has this pedigree It's one of the best selling novels of all time Yeah They filmed in Louisiana It's not like fake It's like real bayou kind of thing And the director spoke for like 25 minutes Reading like a thank you list It's not incredible

[01:37:20] And it's just like Everyone went into this with well intentions They really wanted to make it as good as it could be But it's just not smartly made Yeah And it's like there is absolutely All the component parts can be there

[01:37:34] Except if the people who wrote it and directed it Don't get it You know And it's crazy to see what a director like Kubrick Can do when brought in to help a studio thing get finished You know Like

[01:37:48] Yeah it's a real testament to that sort of auteurist kind of Talking about I mean look a lot of it is taste and judgment Right Which kind of can't be taught But you talk about the Kubrickian standards And the quest for perfection And control

[01:38:04] And all that sort of shit And once again you want to compare him to someone like Wes Anderson Who is certainly one of the most controlled directors Working today And once again All the actors who work with him are like Yeah it's difficult He's like very precise

[01:38:20] The timing is like there is no room for error He wants word perfect It's to the millimeter All this sort of shit It's very meticulous work Everyone who works with him likes him as a guy But I read some interview Once with him that was very telling

[01:38:36] Where he said When he's on a model rocket He cannot get over the things that he looks at Where he caved to the pressure of Wes we really need to move on Right Where he's like it drives me crazy Anytime I look at anything in that movie

[01:38:52] Where it's off by like one degree or whatever it is And he just said After he made that movie He said I am just never going to have anything I regret because I didn't take the time for it In one of my movies ever again And he's like

[01:39:06] If I need to work all night to figure out the way to do it Whatever it is I'm never moving on because someone says we're out of time Or money And I think there's that sort of thing with Kubrick Where it's just like

[01:39:18] It's so much more painful to have to watch the movie later And constantly be haunted by the things you surrender Might as well get it right now You might as well get it right in the moment when you can Well Kirk Douglas disagrees

[01:39:28] Because he said at the time Stanley will be a fine director someday If he falls in his face just once Might teach him how to compromise So Kirk thinks the opposite He thinks Stanley needs to be on his face Don't think Stanley ever learned how to compromise

[01:39:42] Which is probably one reason he's so distinctive His biggest failure was the one that came after he died Like If he had had to make a movie after Eyes Wide Shut That would have been the first time That he was really reacting to like a backlash

[01:39:54] When he died he was signed on to do Wild Hogs Is that right? He was and he was going to do it with Haley Joel Osment At first he wanted to do it for robots He spent years developing Hogbots Let's call them what they were Robohogs

[01:40:12] He had drawings filling his London flat of hogbots Some blankie tweeted at me this week That the bar that they constructed For Wild Hogs which was not a real bar Still stands today As a tourist attraction They built a bar Specifically to see the bar where

[01:40:28] It's like Hobbiton This film premiered at the Panathenaic Theatre John F. Kennedy attended President of the United States Crossed the picket line That was the fucking thing It won full Oscars Supporting actor, cinematography, costumes And production design It was nominated for score

[01:40:48] Incredible Alex North score on this movie The score is unbelievable This like really good mix of like truly melancholy Like proper emotional score That's still big There's brass all over it There's tubas, french horns And trumpets just blasting your ass One of the Roman legions should have tubas

[01:41:06] And stuff It's all the spearmen charging in But then one of them is just a big brass band There was no human dart board With an instrument Walking around with the troops There were some boys playing instruments In the bathhouse That would be good though

[01:41:24] Don't Trump us with trying to play trumpet We haven't really talked about This movie is pretty homoerotic Oh no it's so homoerotic David don't get to the premiere of the fucking movie Let's back up the train And like the Tony Curtis of it all We got Dickie Lawson

[01:41:40] But you know Tony Curtis for years was this kind of gay icon Not gay himself Though there were always rumors Would almost like Lay it on too thick about how much he loved women Exactly Maybe there was a protest too much Element to it

[01:41:56] But was pretty crass about Oh yeah absolutely And you know in this movie He's also married 6 times Which is a fair amount of times to be married He was in his mid 30s in this Cause I always thought Oh he was new on the scene

[01:42:12] You think this is like his second or third movie And he still looks cherubic Because being the year after Some Like It Hot is pretty wild It's hard to process Is it like in 1960 Like we're out of Hayes Code barely Or no It's dying

[01:42:32] But I would say Hayes Code doesn't technically end Until like Bonnie and Clyde It's going away The bath scene is astounding There are other scenes where men are sort of intimately professing love To one another And they're always like a father like a son

[01:42:46] But it's like come on The bath scene though is almost Explicit About the fact that this guy is bisexual You cannot believe how little it is coded And yes it's villainy And it's the old thing of like Scar from the Lion King or whatever

[01:43:02] But like I didn't mind it Cause it's fascinating And it's done in such an interesting Snails and oysters And Olivia's also not Camping it up anymore than he usually does Like he's not putting additional He's not twirling his ruby ring Exactly Adjusting his wig Or whatever

[01:43:24] It would be funny if he adjusted his wig Ironically you snuff As Prince John in Animal Animated Robin Hood Of course That's exactly who I Because you snuff in the beginning Where he has the boy carrying the umbrella And he's like the sun's that way

[01:43:44] And he's kind of bitchy That's in the first scene of the movie And you're like oh this is like gay Right from the outset When no one involved was gay As far as I know In the major parts of the film

[01:43:58] I just think it's funny to have heard about This movie mostly through Clueless But also just joked about In community for years And then to watch it I thought people were exaggerating And it's like oh no There's a reason that it's the fucking joke

[01:44:14] In Airplane and that the joke Still works so well You're like that's It's arguably Billy have you ever been to a Turkish prison? But it's one of those things where you're like That's kind of the best gay joke In a straight comedy ever That also doesn't feel offensive

[01:44:32] It's a very funny euphemism Yeah And you know when 300 came out And made so much fucking money I remember there being Trend pieces where they're just like Underserved gay audience This isn't being talked about that loudly Right And Zack Snyder was sort of going around trumpeting

[01:44:52] Well we like amped up the Lena Hetty character From the book because we wanted this movie to relate To women because these movies only usually relate To men and we think that's why the film Is over performing and it was like no

[01:45:02] It's over performing because of gay men It's amped Yeah and it's just really funny to think about Nine years before Stonewall Gay guys in West Hollywood Or the village being like have you seen Spartacus? It's great, it's fun This was like

[01:45:20] They kind of did it like oh Larry Olivier You imagine there must have been Screenings of this movie that felt Like the fucking story Of Sweetback's badass song where the Black Panther party shows up to the screening And it's just like fucking finally Right

[01:45:38] This movie must have just played like The end of end game It was not made Every scene was fucking Catching a hammer I don't think it was made with this intention But you can if you like pivot A little bit to one side

[01:45:54] View this movie as like camp It allows for that In a way, I don't think it's a campy movie Per se but like it has that Ability to And there's something about The balance of Kubrick being So literal minded and Straight faced about everything

[01:46:12] And then having all these old theatrical Actors who have the clout To do whatever the fuck they want Every old British theatrical actor From the mid century was like a raging Queen even if he was straight It's that Although they fucked each other

[01:46:28] There's that class of actor, the Olivier types Where you're like right he's either gay or Whatever right I want it like James Dean Monty Clift, Rock Hudson who actually of course was gay You know like Marlon Brando Burt Lancaster, Cary Grant All those guys where it's like

[01:46:44] They were either gay Bisexual or The Tony Curtis thing where you're like There's no evidence but I don't know There were always whispers Becomes the story about those 50s leading men who were so pretty And so adept at comedy And so You know

[01:47:04] It's a swinging time in post war Hollywood I mean look these things are all Cyclical It did feel like that was the first Wave of like Or perhaps second wave but True fluidity in Hollywood And it was sort of like don't ask don't tell

[01:47:20] But it was like a lot of these people You go like wait so was like the Catherine Hepburn, Spencer Tracy thing Was that a sham? Was that like a fake for pressing? No they very much did have a thing Even though he was married to a different woman

[01:47:34] And he also by all accounts had sex with a lot of men And all these people were sort of like Why do we need to define anything? Everyone fuck everyone James Dean and Sal Minio were probably doing something on Rebel or Giant Or whatever

[01:47:46] Everyone was fucking everyone for 20 years Yeah and I think what's such a bummer about that Is that like obviously there were pains In the closet and all that stuff But People had community And they were living foolish lives And then you get one thing about that

[01:48:02] Which is that goddamn Ryan Murphy show Which he decides to depict it as This like descent into the house of horrors When one of the characters goes to one of these Noel Coward dinner party things or whatever Is that what that show is like?

[01:48:14] Was that the show Hollywood? Yeah Hollywood There's an episode that's all at a dinner party At Jim Parsons is playing Some nightmare agent or something And it's just this like Absolute haunted house Full of like miserable Old queens

[01:48:32] And it's like sure I'm sure that was there to some extent But also like It wasn't all that I'm sure Well look I'll just say Some blankies understandably got upset With what they viewed as a flippancy With how we talked about bisexuality in the Cabaret episode

[01:48:46] Which I think was To defend ourselves quickly Our interpretation of that specific character And not extrapolations about a larger spectrum of sexuality Right we didn't mean to be glib We were sort of talking off handedly About these things but when you dig into Especially this era of those

[01:49:02] Actors there are things like Charles Lawton was married for decades Through his death To his death Not through his death To Elsa Lancaster Who is the bride of Frankenstein The titular bride of Frankenstein A fascinating fucking couple right

[01:49:20] And there's the story that she walked in on him having sex With a man one time And so then people for a long time framed it as like Oh he was a closeted gay man And it's like no there are people like Rock Hudson

[01:49:30] Who by all accounts seem to be a gay man Who was closeted and had to keep up with the mirage And struggling with that yes And it informs his performances in this crazy way But then he's a big character on that show

[01:49:40] You read about fucking Lancaster and Lawton And it's like no they were in love with each other And they were married and they had like a sex life These guys And gals in this era Were very like Boundary less in these cases

[01:49:54] And this movie feels weirdly reflective of that I agree There is a sort of energy to the movie That is speaking a lot to what was going on Down the street from where they were filming But also you can Whatever not even quote sneak it by

[01:50:08] But you can just present it to a mainstream audience at the time And it won't really register with them They'll be like I don't know it's Rome sure People took baths It's the material too It's a plainly homoerotic material That can both be easily interpreted

[01:50:22] And also just sail over Heads enough at the time I guess because it's whatever This was like a movie that would get adapted Into a comic book that would be sold to kids Right you know this is the biggest hit of the year

[01:50:34] Right this was like a movie You would take your child to And fucking Christian can go show it to You know Cher And Clueless And she can be like when are we going to fuck And Tony Curtis with his hands in his chin

[01:50:48] I mean his chin and his hands You know In that way this is a true four quadrant Like I mean There's something for almost everybody Which is rare He sings songs to the children And I juggle as well I wish I had the exact line

[01:51:06] I juggle as well He did a Flintstones episode right? Dang You think I'm going to have that information at my absolute fingertips I was just always fascinated That's going to take a couple googles I feel like Flintstones would play nightly

[01:51:20] Well there was just that Washington Post article about Tony Curtis' Flintstones episode It's big news The oral history Yeah he did a Flintstones episode Character called Stoney Curtis Thank you First off I just remember His face One of those things when we're kids we're watching that

[01:51:40] And you're like I know this is a reference to something But I can't bring it up Like how Peter Lorre is in Louis June His face in that episode is so bizarre And does not match the Hanna-Barbera art style And you're just like

[01:51:52] This has to be a real person Because they wouldn't design something like that And this drawing is so weird What does the real guy look like And then you look at the real guy and it's exactly the same as the drawing Literally it's like a masterwork

[01:52:04] But they did like Ann Margrock I think there was a Rock Hudson I just remember Simpsons would play Flintstones would play in like the Simpsons syndication slot On early cartoon network At like 5pm every single day Back to back episodes and I'd watch them

[01:52:18] And they'd have these episodes that were treated like Alec Baldwin and Ken Basinger showing up in Springfield Where I'd be like what the fuck is going on here And of all of them Tony Curtis was the one As a child where I was like

[01:52:28] What's this voice, what's this face, what's this energy What's this fucking persona What is being parodied He doesn't fit into Ancient Greece No Now I really want to hear him say yabba dabba doo But he did He mocked Fred Flintstone for not getting enough pussy He peddled by

[01:52:48] In his footmobile Fuck you Fred The Flintstones is so weird Like look at the other guy in this Their head is shaped like an ice cube And has four lashes Like if it goes out like two inches Do you remember the Flintstones push pops Yeah

[01:53:06] It's like they didn't have to change the shape Of the characters to fit like a popsicle No they all were shaped like a push pop Yeah Did not see us going to Tony Curtis' Flintstones guest spot Not objecting I'm gonna do a Flintstones rewatch podcast

[01:53:22] Called the Podstones or some shit The Flintpots Before we wrap to the premiere Which I must discuss of course in the box office game Is there anything else we want to discuss We haven't really talked about Gene Simmons' character Verena But she's not the most interesting character Again

[01:53:40] Probably Kubrick thought this way Not much, fairly saintly He wanted John Moreau to do it Which would have been fascinating That would have been pretty cool This is like a year after Juliet Jim I think it was a Visa thing I saw that somewhere

[01:53:56] This is two years before Juliet Jim So she's really, yeah Would have been fascinating Sure There are a couple scenes here that are pretty striking I mean that first scene where they push her Into his chamber And this silent sort of Yeah and then

[01:54:14] The reveal of like they're watching above Like a grate, like this is all You almost don't understand why Because when Yusinov Is sort of giving them all like the opening Ceremonial Introductory, welcome to being my slave Here's how things work here He's like and he behaved well

[01:54:32] We let you have sex with people So then you're wondering why he's being rewarded that quickly And you realize it's all part of this weird fucking game Of like oh no we want to watch you fuck this person This is still for our titillation This is still dehumanization

[01:54:44] Especially because neither of them have really talked That much in the movie at that point They don't really have an extended conversation Until they meet up again And even then I mean they get to I love you pretty quick But like whatever They do, pregnant like immediately

[01:54:58] And then there's like scenes that You know where they hold hands Sort of or brush fingers You know and that's this big moment For both of them And then she gets sent off to be with the Spaniard Which that felt like gladiator As punishment

[01:55:14] And then the next day he kind of mouths Like did they hurt you Like those are small intimate moments That you wouldn't necessarily expect In a 62 year old Epic like this And then in the big scene with Olivier Where he's like I'll fucking kill your son

[01:55:32] If you don't sleep with me And she's like why do you want me to hate you so much And he's like no I want you to love me And she's like so you're going to threaten to kill my son

[01:55:40] You think you can force me into liking me through intimidation Well it's a good way because He has He has won By all accounts in that movie He got, he stole her He killed everybody else And she's just like kind of reminding him

[01:55:56] Like oh no you didn't win this Or me at least But also he didn't win Because he thinks I'm now on top And the whole point of having Caesar in the background Played by very very pretty John Gavin

[01:56:08] Is like no this is a guy who people actually like And will like This is a person who will actually have a cult of personality Like will actually command people through Charisma which is what Spartacus does too It's the whole thing with this movie

[01:56:20] It's why it needs to be someone like Kirk Douglas playing Spartacus The thing that completely enrages them Is the people like this guy That's why they don't understand how he It's like the juice that's giving this rebellion Some real momentum Is that like people They find him appealing

[01:56:36] They want to listen to what he has to say And Crassus the real guy would go off To his death Trying to basically do what Caesar did In Gaul but in the east Because he was like I have to Keep up with this guy

[01:56:50] He got 30,000 of his people killed Including himself He's like this weird sort of like Dick Cheney Fucking Steve Bannon figure Where it's like I can see the whole game And the problems that no one likes me I'm just horrible I'm boring and not appealing

[01:57:06] And Olivier is good at that in that he is of course An incredibly magnetic actor and you love to watch him talk But he can play like the most unlikable Like sort of slimy guy Without losing any of that charisma Yeah and it also

[01:57:18] Helps there that he's not doing Like you know Starscream level villain Camp. It'd be funny if he was If he was too If it's too much it's too much Starscream was a Roman Senator Oh no famously yeah But like there are moments

[01:57:38] Even in this movie where you're like Is he that bad? No he is but he's not playing it that way Oh no he is I just got confused Because he like seems like An intelligent person like that's what it is He's pretty measured

[01:57:52] The guy screws up and basically lets Gracchus nominate him to take Half the garrison And then that's And Gracchus knows like oh that was That was a strategic You know an error strategically And someone like Lawton in his final moments is like I should do one good thing

[01:58:10] Like Olivier kind of never makes The human choice And then where he's kind of berating the younger guy For making that error He then softens and is like oh it's okay You'll be fine you know whatever And you're like oh is he a villain

[01:58:24] But you know of course he is It's just a good performance Remember when that guy's gonna get like 400 miles there's like a 400 mile Ring around him that's the punishment No one can give you food So where does he go? I don't fucking know

[01:58:40] Apparently this film took two years to make Production or just It's one of those things where it's like Variety calls it took two so my guess is It's like production and post right They might have filmed this for a year It got good reviews although

[01:58:54] Bosley Crowther that old grump In the Times hated it Which I guess is maybe the best sign of Like how this is not Seen as an upper crust movie Or whatever even though it's a hit Bosley in the Times is sort of like Yes yes very good

[01:59:12] Very good like you know Very fancy but you know even though It's got lots of fervor And you know historical You know stuff Like it's not he's not that impressed I wasn't making this as like an offhand Heroic humbug is what he calls it

[01:59:28] It was the thing I saw on the Wikipedia That this had a Dell Comics Color adaptation which was kind Of like the video game tie in Of its era in the same way that the Marvel movies are like adults go see them

[01:59:40] But like let's be honest these movies meant for kids But Dell Comics it was like oh It's interesting to See what films got That framing at the time Because some of them are things like The Searchers Where you're like it's weird that that movie was meant for kids

[01:59:54] And other ones are movies that have completely Fallen by the wayside where you're like oh these are Just little boy fighting movies But they almost went out of business When they did the one for Lolita That was a nice step You mean this Peter Sellers

[02:00:10] Movie isn't for kids Okay as we May know some of this movie Was cut down right including The Oysters and Snails Stuff and like you know that was Objected to initially by the National Legion of Decency When the film was restored The dialogue was missing

[02:00:30] Tony Curtis re-recorded the dialogue Even though he was in his 60s for his part Olivier was Dead fuck what do we do Anthony Hopkins impersonated him Really? Because Anthony Hopkins does a Perfect Olivier I will say watching this I realized And I did not know that fact

[02:00:50] I was like oh Olivier was in the Hopkins phase of his career Like Olivier playing this role is very Much like 90s Hopkins 2000 Hopkins Because how many years away was he from like Marathon Man you know or You end up at Jazz Singer Marathon Man

[02:01:04] Which is like Hopkins doing Red 2 right right or Or whatever but this is like right You hire Olivier to just Lend the gravitas So wait the bath scene Was not in the original theatrical Release yes okay When was it put back in It's not 1991 Was the right story

[02:01:26] No one had laid eyes on that for 30 years It's a big fucking chunk of the movie Missing enough character motivation All the bloodiest stuff had been cut out How did they explain where Antonius came from Yeah why he left that job I don't know

[02:01:40] Or maybe just been specific stuff That was cut out I don't know My old boss used to ride my ass That's all he said And the big re-release It was one of those things It was one of those things Where Kubrick was like look I'm not

[02:01:56] Interested in it being re-released And Spielberg knew him then And was like well they're American Cinematheque or whoever wants to do this And he sort of Talks him into it and Kubrick eventually Then does the thing he always was doing

[02:02:10] In the 90's which was sending lots of faxes Remember you like Spielberg talks about it a lot right Kubrick was always sending faxes From his estate in London so that was how He supervised the restoration This thing looks incredible There was this important

[02:02:26] There's a very bad blu-ray of it It was like historically the worst blu-ray Transfer they were like what the fuck is Universal doing This looks like a VHS put on a disc Right and then the 4K I have this deal It's now the proper I think 8K

[02:02:40] Scan of the restoration Of the 91 restoration And it looks Unbelievable You just like cannot believe The level of detail in this image 100% You see like every pore in everyone's face I feel like It's lasting reputation is a good Movie that is

[02:03:02] Would you agree with me that it's not a masterpiece But is a good movie And is not nearly one of Kubrick's better films but is you know A good movie It's well regarded The 4K steelbook weirdly When the movie ended and

[02:03:18] This movie doesn't really have end credits but then there's like Restoration credits on the end of it Another thing like look It's been a long time To get to movies from the 50s and 60s Which hopefully will start moving even further Back

[02:03:32] But this and Sweet Charity close together It's nice just watch two movies that have fucking On tracks and intermissions Oh yeah And all that sort of shit It's an on track It's like the overture but when you're coming back From intermission

[02:03:48] You're walking back in you've got your cracker jacks You've got your nachos The thing you immediately fast forward Through when you're at home Next chapter please Which Ben by the way Saul Bass a big thing he spearheaded Was like before him opening credits Would often just be projected

[02:04:06] On the closed curtains Because they'd be like this is before the actual Movie anything actually happens or matters And he was like this is like Could be a part of the film You could make this story telling And it was like oh when

[02:04:20] Saul Bass started designing opening credits sequences They would open the curtains up but a lot of that Where there's just the overture playing It was like when you're looking at a blank screen Or you're looking at just a color With no detail or whatever it's because they literally

[02:04:32] Weren't opening the curtains yet it was just sort of Like place setting music Um there's the fucking And credits they add on to this just for the restoration And then weirdly I don't think I've seen this before The 4k disc just started Playing special features

[02:04:46] Yes it literally I let it run and then Suddenly Kirk Douglas was there being like ah Kirk Douglas So there's a very old like 98 year old you know Two decades post stroke Kirk Douglas and he says this thing about Like I made 90 movies in my life

[02:05:00] People will probably only For the rest of time remember at most 10 of them and of those 10 Spartacus is the one that will probably last Forever and he's sort of saying With a little bit of surprise where he's even like He knows that's neither the best

[02:05:14] Movie he was ever in nor One of his best performances But this movie does have some weird Cultural staying power And so even when you're a little kid you know about I'm Spartacus You know what he looks like you know the shots you know the lines

[02:05:28] It just sort of has yeah And it's certainly not a special Because it became one of the chief things Cited When people were talking about A Hollywood cliche oh you know the epics Right Spartacus Ben Hur Those two movies that's what gets referenced

[02:05:44] The Ten Commandments or whatever you know Those are like the three of this era And genre that they represent like a major Era of Film you know in America Like you can parody and everyone understands What you're parodying even if they haven't seen it 100% yeah

[02:06:00] And I think it's why when Gladiator came out And was obviously such a massive hit And then there were Attempts to do more And even Ridley tried to do it Two more times Exodus And none of them really stuck Because I think the reason Gladiator did well

[02:06:16] Was like yes yay one fun Throwback and we don't need anymore With all these things where it's like Well you'll never make a successful pirate movie It's like we can make the pirates movies It's just that there won't that won't be A blank check for right every studio

[02:06:30] To have a pirate movie or whatever You're right I mean I guess like After Gladiator you got Troy You got like movies that did well You got the box office but you didn't get any more good Or well received movies

[02:06:44] And in a way Troy was like okay Troy is the one That coasts off of the good will from Gladiator But people don't like it and then When King of Heaven comes out people are like no we're done Troy is the Pearl Harbor To Armageddon

[02:06:56] Titanic oh sure no that's fair It's just like it's someone who's talented But not as talented and Not as thoughtful and it's way worse And it was like we're at one strike Here the audience is gonna One bad version of this and we'll never

[02:07:10] Go see it again I thought it was so bad when I saw it I was anti-Troy yeah I was like this is I thought it sucked and now If I watch it I'll be like it's pretty good I also feel like it's one of those movies

[02:07:20] Where there's like an hour cut back into it where people Are like oh it makes sense yeah that's probably true It's got I mean King of Heaven is the one Where notoriously it goes from being like a disaster to a masterpiece

[02:07:28] To a really good disaster I have heard yeah I've heard that director's cut is really good But I think like Troy is at least a B plus In the director's cut Kingdom of Heaven's a big problem God bless him is Orlando Bloom Beyond like

[02:07:40] Also in Troy well he's Well cast in Troy because he's the dipshit Little pons yeah right And Troy has the advantage of Pit and Bonna at least where you're like you know these are Like very robust on screen presence It was such a fascinating thing when

[02:07:54] Orlando Bloom's entire filmography Was like Black Hawk Down Three Lord of the Rings Troy and Pirates of the Caribbean And we're like this guy's the biggest actor And now we're gonna let him be The guy Kingdom of Heaven Here we go and people were immediately

[02:08:12] Like no and Cameron Crowe was like not not this Elizabethan huh no no No absolutely not you're done forever Yeah now he's like slightly back He's around now What's he doing is he on the show the Amazon show Which show The Lord of the Rings show no

[02:08:28] He did the fucking He did the weird carnival show yes Like fairy detectives or whatever With Cara Delevingne Carnival Row that's right That was like a blacklist script that never got made And then it's one of those shows that It was Kubrick's idea first right

[02:08:44] It's one of those shows that got a second season that we've still never seen I think because of COVID and maybe we'll get it one day Or whatever but that's the thing he's around He's around I feel like there's a lot of things though where

[02:08:54] You're like oh he was supposed to play The Dominic Cooper role in Education dropped out a week before filming started There were like some of those where they're kind of Interesting supporting parts and good projects That he was signed up to do and dropped out at the

[02:09:08] Last second Spartacus Came out in Late October 1960 Opens at number three In the box office or I'm Doing its first weekend of the box office where it is A new entry essentially But number one at the box office is The biggest hit Of last year

[02:09:30] One of the most financially successful films ever made And we've talked about it a lot on this podcast We've talked about it a lot on this podcast On this very episode Is it the Ten Commandments Nope Ben-Hur In its 50th week number one

[02:09:46] That's the movie where the wheel Hits the other one there's a spike on it Sick Pretty cool stuff There's other stuff too right We've talked about it Did you ever see the new Ben-Hur I did not with what's his pants Jack Houston Really

[02:10:06] I think I reviewed it and was like yeah it's not bad Richard I dare you to do a fucking Reclamation project I should On the Jack Houston And Toby what's his name Toby Kibble It's like two of those The cast is weird

[02:10:24] They just got over the hump or whatever Wasn't it also like Christian There was like some Christian money there Well they tried really hard Or maybe that was to get the Christian audience They're like it's Ben-Hur baby That's another one of these things

[02:10:38] You talk about this phenomenon of the Passion of the Christ Everyone's like here we fucking go And when they did like the nativity story Anything like that Didn't fucking work Noah was the only other one that even I feel like Crossed a hundred million dollars

[02:10:52] I mean like in the movies now They're like the war room Or like fireproof where you make it for a million dollars A little boy named Colton Burbo's trip to heaven Do heaven is for real But don't do the epics No one wants to see the epics

[02:11:06] Well they would if it was some fucking Australian psycho Like beating someone to death on camera That was what they liked about it They liked how violent it was But they were just like easy print money We'll just get people in the desert Virgin Mary

[02:11:20] Yeah none of those Exodus didn't work The Rooney Mara smoking a cigarette on the crucifix What was that called Mary Magdalene That was the guy from the Lion director Garth And then it got delayed because of Weinstein Garth Party on Garth Number two at the box office is

[02:11:42] A sort of sexy thriller A noir? I wouldn't call it a noir I've never seen it It's a Doris Day movie Huh and it's sexy? Well it's like a thriller It's like she's being stalked by a creepy guy You've never seen it but you know of it

[02:12:04] You know the title Is it called The Stalker? No It is referring to a lacy dress that she wears Neglifying? No It's a good title Someone should make a movie called Neglifying It's Doris Day Rex Harrison And then Julius Caesar himself John Gavin and Myrna Loy Roddy McDowell

[02:12:30] Solid cast Who directed the thing? David Miller Who is not a director I know Particularly well he did Lonely are the Brave With Kirk Douglas Which is a great fucking movie directed by Dalton Trumbo Written by A bathtub joint That movie is so good A guy

[02:12:52] I've never seen Lonely are the Brave No I've never fucking seen it Why don't you nail me to the cross like Spartacus himself David stay in the bathtub I'll hold the boss baby up to you Forky was like they're going to crucify him

[02:13:04] And I was like yeah you know the Romans Kind of famous for doing that There was this one guy they got Kind of was a big deal That's pretty bad The movie is called Midnight Lace Oh that's also a good title Pretty good title right

[02:13:20] I feel like if it was really good I would know it well The movie with Doris Day and Rex Harrison About a stalker called Midnight Lace That sounds good There is one thing from the movie I wanted to talk about When everyone is saying I am Spartacus

[02:13:34] I would have been like Backing out I'm Ben for the record Hey guys I'm going to stick with my name Ben Duesen Number 3 is Spartacus They'd be like Matt Go on That's a good call back Patreon episode I believe If you guys want to know what that's about

[02:13:58] Number 4 the box office 3 is Spartacus, 4 is it's a western It's a huge hit I saw it when I was a kid Probably haven't seen it in many years The movie came out in 60 It just came out in fact It's not Magnificent 7 It is

[02:14:14] I was trying to think of one that you would be shown as a child Right I feel like it's an early starter western for a kid Absolutely And then you get to know Eli Wallach And Neil Brenner and Steve McQueen And Charles Bronson

[02:14:28] One of the best themes in film history So you walk up to a movie theater I know these didn't really exist in the same way back then Should we go see Ben Hur Spartacus The Magnificent 7 That's wild But the reality is there's one theater that has 4000 seats

[02:14:44] That's playing Spartacus And if you want to go see Magnificent 7 it's on the other side of town Maybe not with Spartacus But with some of these things You're not just going to see the Magnificent 7 You're going to see The News Daffy Duck

[02:14:58] You get to see fucking Duck Amok Someone's walking around making pastrami sandwiches And a bee feature too Tony Curtis would make you a pastrami sandwich Yeah and talk about his dick with you And ask you about yours if you were interested And also where pictures were shot

[02:15:12] But it was also hot There was a lot of fans going It's my favorite thing in matinee The great Giordante movie Which we will hopefully someday cover Scorsese talks about this as well But there was so much reverence for a golden age of cinema

[02:15:26] You'd go to it and it was like a fucking insane asylum Children were ripping up seat cushions And throwing jujubes at the screen You'd sit there for 7 hours People would show up halfway through a movie Not know what happened I'm sure people were drinking like crazy

[02:15:40] Anytime in Mad Men they go see a movie And that's what they're doing They're going in between sex sessions At the local motel Just to drink a martini They don't even care what's playing There's this movie about the beauty of filmgoing And he's like it was chaos

[02:15:56] There wasn't that reverence There was a scene in the hotel where everyone is silent This was seen as a babysitting tool I remember that when I was a kid And my mom took me to the NFT For example Which is now called the BFI

[02:16:10] She had to buy a plane ticket Just to take you to a specific movie theater Just for a bored ape? The NFT If I were Seth Green I'd be worried about that theater getting stolen I remember my mom Just being like look

[02:16:26] I don't think you're going to be annoying or anything You gotta be quiet You can't mess around At this screening People are going to be kind of strict She was like I don't even think they sell popcorn And I was like What are you fucking talking about?

[02:16:42] My mom took me to Filmformer as a child No butter here What the fuck are you talking about? The fifth film is a film we mentioned It's a film that beat out Spartaca's two best picture nomination The Alamo? It's the Alamo

[02:16:58] Here's the other thing Richard you were talking about The embarrassment of riches Of your options of movies to watch right now The other difference is The number one movie in America at this point Has been playing for A year So it's not like oh Ghostbusters and fucking Gremlins

[02:17:14] Were released on the same day That's wild They would just kind of re-license it And theaters would be like we're going to play Ben-Hur for the next month Even though it came out A year ago The cream would rise to the top Because if something was shitty

[02:17:30] It would be out of theaters pretty quickly It wouldn't get bookings nationwide And then you would never see it again So you're like the top five Can have a movie from a year ago A movie from six months ago A movie that came out this weekend

[02:17:44] A movie that's been playing for a month and is starting to rise Isn't it why Gone With The Wind Is still the highest grossing movie ever? Because they just never stopped playing it Obviously But also people were going again and again

[02:17:56] Because it's not like oh I'll see it when it's on television They're like I might never be able to see this again Yeah and the other crazy thing was They'd play Gone With The Wind on television Once every ten years

[02:18:06] And then it would get the ratings of the Super Bowl These things were just like I mean Star Wars was the same thing Where kids would be like I saw it 30 times because I needed to remember it Because I couldn't just go and watch it

[02:18:18] I had to commit it I think there's an interesting point too Where it's like when people went to see Empire Strikes Back Which he remembers seeing He was writing about this recently And it says episode 5 on it

[02:18:30] And Star Wars, the original cut of it, does not say episode 4 And he was like we didn't have the internet We couldn't be like what was that? Did we miss three episodes? Or was the last one four? And then no one fucking told us We could just speculate

[02:18:44] The other thing is if George Lucas gave an interview And answered it He would get aggregated by 87,000 websites You might read that And he was like we didn't know the answer to that Until they re-released Star Wars the next year And they had added episode 4 onto it

[02:18:58] And then it was like oh okay So we're in the middle of a story But that's when they found out This is cool to think about But in their mind are they like Is he going to make a middle three movies between Star Wars and Empire?

[02:19:10] It's just crazy to imagine them being like Figure it out nerds Some other movies in the box office I'm going to read Long Without End Which is a biopic about Franz List That's thrilling Starring Dirk Bogard Oh that's interesting A movie called

[02:19:28] A great title, let no man write my epitaph Oh boy Starring Beryl Ives and Shelley Winters That sounds hammer Ricardo Montalban and Ella Fitzgerald What's the plot of this film? It's a crime drama about the son of an executed criminal Who aspires to escape his crime ridden neighborhood

[02:19:44] With the help of his mother Alright Then you got a movie called I love this title too The Dark at the Top of the Stairs That's a great title It's a play Based on a play And then a movie called Surprise Package Starring Yul Brynner and Mitzi Gaynor

[02:20:04] And Noel Coward About an American gangster living on a Greek island And an opposed king And they try to steal some jewels Wow Sounds pretty good right? Yeah it sounds pretty fucking good I just like that when Yul Brynner is such a big star

[02:20:20] Okay so we need some movies for you Could you play a king Who does a jewel robbery The thing you couldn't do is have Yul Brynner play A real estate lawyer They never did the Schwarzenegger thing Where Schwarzenegger is like I'm an average guy Who is pregnant

[02:20:38] I'm stuck babysitting I feel like 10 years ago This was a trend of people photoshopping Like golden age movie posters For modern films And casting Who would have been Sure sure And I always remember the Fast and the Furious one Was Paul Newman playing the Paul Walker part

[02:21:02] And Yul Brynner as Vin Diesel And I was like that's a really good identification Of Yul Brynner not feeling human Right This guy is incredibly striking But he can't just play anybody And then when these epics go out of fashion

[02:21:16] They're like you wanna play a killer robot cowboy The only way we could contextualize you now Is if you were a robot That's it That's your best bet He's so good in that movie We're done with Spartacus Spraticus The next episode is Lolita Uh oh

[02:21:36] Blank check will be cancelled in one week It's a joke Yeah look I'm not looking forward to it I know I should stop making jokes About how we're dreading the episode It's okay though Cause you know the episode is dropping on a very normal date September 11th

[02:21:52] Sorry Ben Ben just gave me the look of Why now I gotta make some fucking note That you blew out the microphone I shifted away from the mic I went sideways You should just say it's the Lolita episode But only talk about the movie Remember Me

[02:22:08] Or whatever that movie is called The Robert Pattinson secret 9-11 movie Just talk about it That should be the Lolita episode So you don't actually have to deal with the movie Well I'll be like Remember Me with a twist at the end

[02:22:20] As it was Remember Me the whole time Or we look out the window and we're like it was Lolita More movies should end like that Where you watch an entire film And then the last 5 minutes they pan over to a camera

[02:22:30] Someone just told me an insane twist in a movie The John Cho movie With uh It's like a road trip movie Do you wanna hear it? Are you gonna watch that movie? Tell us off mic I'm in feed I wanna hear it I wanna hear it too

[02:22:50] But take us out Griffin Unless there's anything else anyone wants to say about Sporadicus Um no Thank you for providing the opportunity for me to watch this I probably never would have watched this movie I never would have gotten around to it 3 hours and change

[02:23:04] But I think it's such an interesting I'm so excited to listen to the rest of this season Of you guys Because like I'm just really curious to hear Like This is it After this he's off on his own It's the historic run

[02:23:20] You know and I think that's fascinating That this was what it took Yeah Like the check never Bounced after this They never took the checkbook away from him Right He continued to just be like here are my fucking terms And his only like real

[02:23:38] Like people didn't really know what to do with it was Barry Lyndon Right like everything else really was connected But even still it's like that got a bunch of fucking Oscar nominations Right Something like The Shining which a lot of critics dismiss Was a big ass hit

[02:23:50] Like he never had an outright What are you doing Stanley He didn't live to see that Richard Anthony you want to plug Oh no you can read reviews At VF This is probably coming out this is early September Right So I will have

[02:24:08] I will be in Venice Italy Reviewing from the film festival And then I'll be in Toronto You gonna hang out with Julianne Moore Yeah probably she's been texting me while we record I'll get back to her eventually She keeps texting you more Bart Frenklich scripts

[02:24:22] Yeah well she keeps texting me Telling me she juggles as well Text me PBS You said don't text me lady And she's like don't call me lady Anyway Welcome to the 11 Timers Club Thank you all for listening Please remember to rate review and subscribe

[02:24:40] Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media Helping produce the show Thank you to AJ McKeon Alex Barron for our editing Pat Reynolds Thank you to our sponsor JJ Birch For our research You can go to BlankCheckPod.com For links to some real nerdy shit

[02:25:00] Including our Patreon Blank Check special features We're doing the Roger Moore Bond movies But we're also gonna do some fucking Kubrick tie-ins We're shifting around the schedule a little bit In terms of doing some three commentaries Back to back to back In order to time Kubrick things out

[02:25:16] But the ones that we think we're doing are Yes We'll do that in October I think And then Doctor Sleep in November Isn't there a third one? I think for September we kind of want to do the Fletch movie Oh yes That's what we're gonna do this month

[02:25:32] It's called Confess Fletch So it's coming out later So that will be the September 21st episode We're gonna do Confess Fletch Otherwise you're gonna get Roger Moore Commentaries Fantastic I was wondering what you were referencing Because we will do a third Kubrick on the Patreon

[02:25:50] But do we want to say it now or do we want to save it as a surprise? I'll say this It'll be when we're talking the walk We have a Kubrick themed talking the walk That's all I'm gonna say That's for December

[02:26:02] And I think it's a real corker of an idea And as always Next week is Lolita Good good good good good good good