Sympathy for Lady Vengeance with Karen Han

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David, don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check.

[00:00:22] Listen carefully. Everyone makes mistakes. But if you recorded a podcast, you have to make an atonement for that podcast. Atonement, do you know what that means? Big atonement for big podcasts. Small atonement for small podcasts. That's great. I really think it is true.

[00:00:41] I made a four course meal out of that one. Not a five course, but a four course. Is that including a dessert or no? Yes, right? A mousse bouche? Into app? Into the app. Salad or a pasta course? Killer app. Yeah, entree. And then dessert. Dessert.

[00:01:01] Or is it a meal and a bunch of side dishes as per Korean tables usually? Just four sampler platters coming out at different times? So wait, how does that explain this? The Korean dinner tradition?

[00:01:17] Well, this isn't super traditional, but a general Korean dinner table, you'll have your rice. There'll be a couple of big dishes, like maybe fish or something like that. But the big thing, it's like whenever you go to Korean barbecue, you know where there's a bunch of little plates out on the table? That's the deal. You have a bunch of little plates that you can eat with the main course and with your rice.

[00:01:36] It's a good way to eat. Maybe this is crazy, but I went to a restaurant the other night and I had never been there before. And the server came up to me. This is crazy.

[00:01:46] And he said, have you been here before? And I said, no, in fact, you've caught me. I haven't. And he went, we do things a little differently here. Okay.

[00:01:54] And my blood ran cold. And I said, what do you mean? And he explained to me the concept of family style, this radical thing. No! No restaurant has ever tried before. I feel like especially in New York, that's pretty common.

[00:02:08] I flipped over the table and I walked out of the restaurant. Things a little differently. You're not teaching this whole dog new tricks. I don't know what you're talking about. What happens if you go to a family style place by yourself? Well, that was the problem. Just solo.

[00:02:25] That was the problem. Well, I've been to places where it is one big table. Do you know what I'm talking about? Oh, no, I do. I do. Yes. I don't. That's not my preferred style of dining, but.

[00:02:36] No, I would really need to be in a specific mood to want to just kind of throw down with everybody. Also like not during a pandemic. Yeah. Well, sure. No, this server, I was eating alone and he threw out this family style thing. So he was shaming you.

[00:02:53] He was shaming me. For coming alone. I said, I just got him off my fucking back and how you're making me feel bad for not having a family dinner. I don't know what this story is. Listen, this is a podcast. Whoa.

[00:03:08] A big atonement for a big podcast, a big episode, a big miniseries. We do things a little differently on this podcast. No, we don't really. It's conversational. It's pretty normal. Tell that to certain iTunes critics. Oh, sure.

[00:03:25] I don't understand this way they do this. Why aren't they talking about? Yes. A minute one of the episode should start with minute one of the movie. So they want a commentary. Well, yeah. Then guess what? Try the Patreon. It's Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[00:03:45] And David. It's a podcast about filmographies and family style restaurants. Directors have experienced massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce.

[00:04:03] Baby, this is a miniseries on the films. A Park Chan Wook is called I'm a podcast, but that's OK. Today we're talking sympathy for Lady Vengeance or just Lady Vengeance. Right. It was called Sympathy for Lady Vengeance in some countries, but mostly it was just called Lady Vengeance.

[00:04:22] I feel like I've only heard something else. Yeah, it does. I feel like I've only always heard sympathy for Lady Vengeance until like recently when I've been Googling and it was like it was only released as Lady Vengeance in X countries. And I'm like, really? Australia and Russia.

[00:04:36] Interesting. Yeah, I don't know. I kind of like it, though. I like it when your movie has a bunch of names. Yeah, I think that's mysterious and cool. OK, that's fair.

[00:04:45] We talked about this in the Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance episode that that was that title was an American creation, but was it riffing off the already established sympathy for Lady Vengeance in certain countries? Because that was Vengeance is Mine in Korea.

[00:05:02] Vengeance is Mine. Right. And this one is just this one is just her name. Right. Right. Karen, it's like kind hearted Geumja. 친절한 금자씨. It's like what they refer to as like kind hearted Geumja.

[00:05:15] Is kind hearted like does that word cut in a couple directions or something like is that or is that sort of a literal translation? It is pretty literal. Oh, she's kind hearted. Yeah, it's very literal. Except, of course, she's not really.

[00:05:31] They should have called it a Lady Kind Heart. David's giving a very suspicious look. I look very stupid. You look very stupid. What are you saying? Like a big potato. You just got a haircut. Ben agrees. He laughed. A bit of a Tim Robinson bit there.

[00:05:47] Yeah, I got a Tim Robinson. My hair is short and the zoom background. I just kind of look like yeah. Getting worked up. All right, David, David, really quick. Can you just go I didn't do fucking shit. I didn't do fucking shit. Oh my God. He's so funny.

[00:06:03] Don't ask about the table. And the first thing I think is I'm excited. I don't have to go to work for 50 seconds. I thought there was monsters on the world. You know, tables. I should be doing new season. Fran and I, Fran Hoffner. We got a big discussion.

[00:06:26] She doesn't like the Will Forte sketch where he is. No, he's under the car. It's good. That shit is so good. He's got the cigars on his phone. The screenshots. Wait, Ben hasn't seen it. Ben hasn't seen it. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[00:06:40] I gotta get caught up. It's hard to spoil a Tim Robinson sketch. Like it's really about the vibe. But yes, I'm sorry. I will say no more. What were we talking about? Sympathy for Lady Vengeance. Oh, what I was gonna say.

[00:06:54] It's so funny that they try to like theme the English titles when in Korean they're totally unrelated. And then you have sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, sympathy for Lady Vengeance. And then you just have old boy. Old boy.

[00:07:04] It's like you didn't even take this naming convention all the way. Why bother? Sympathy for Mr. Old Boy. Yeah. I don't know how much sympathy that movie has for him. Yeah, that's well, you know, he has a tough run of things. He does. All those dumplings.

[00:07:24] People make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. There's no such thing as a perfect person. Do you think all the movies should be called that? They should just be called people make mistakes. One, two and three. Like that would be a fine title for each of these movies.

[00:07:36] If I had to say what the overriding thematic concern is of this Ursat's trilogy, I would say it's Poe Buddies Nerfect. I would say that's. That's definitely exactly what he was thinking. Poe Buddies Nerfect. Do you think he's familiar with that phrase? Absolutely.

[00:07:52] I think he has it stitched inside of all of his clothing. Like never cursed. It's in the lining. It's in the lining of every piece of clothing. Director Park has our guest today. What? What, David? I was trying to choose our guest. What you should introduce our guests.

[00:08:10] And I'm going to tell you where no Poe Buddies Nerfect originated. Oh shit. Wait, now I want to hear this quick. I can't wait for that. Tell me quickly. Mad Magazine. Really? Those geniuses. They came up with it.

[00:08:25] What was was there a specific piece that was the origin? I think they started using it in the 70s. It just took a crack team of writers to sit down and realize if you swap those letters, there's an irony there. But they must have not trademarked it, right?

[00:08:45] I guess not. It is everywhere. Probably not. Okay, well, it's been said that Poe Buddies Nerfect, but we have a perfect guest today. Wow. Return to the show. Author of Bong Joon-ho Dissident Cinema, a book about the runner up to this year's March Madness competition.

[00:09:07] The Great Haran Han back on the show. Thank you so much for having me here. I'm so excited to talk about this movie. It is my favorite of his. It's your favorite of his. Park Chan-wook's I should say. Yes. You took it right away.

[00:09:20] I was like, what do you want? I think you knew. I think that's what you texted me after I told you. You're like, yeah, I knew you'd pick this one. We talked about it before. What you consider his S tier, I think. And this is right there.

[00:09:36] Karen, as someone who has literally written the book, read a book on Bong Joon-ho, a man who came one vote away from being covered in this slot. Stunning. Yes. Did you have picked out which one you would have wanted to do had he won?

[00:09:53] No, much harder choice than this choice. Oh really? Yeah, I feel like I with Park Chan-wook, I have a lot more ups and downs in terms of what I like and what I like more than other ones.

[00:10:07] Whereas with Bong Joon-ho, it's pretty across the board tense for me. Across the board S tier. Yeah, I'm trying to think if I dislike any of his movies. He certainly he doesn't have a trio Moon is the Sun's Dream. Really? Well, I haven't seen the first film.

[00:10:31] The first one's just okay. You kind of defend it. Yeah, I mean, relatively speaking, I think it's really good. But like in that in his oeuvre, it definitely is more just okay than the rest of them.

[00:10:44] But like upon rewatch, I was like, yeah, this is like really funny. I like it. Yeah, you're right. Kind of wall to wall bangers. What David? I think you would want to do the host, Karen. Yeah. Yeah. Because when we had Karen and I had a conversation. Congrats.

[00:11:02] For the launch of the book. We've had many conversations. At Town Hall. Yes. Yes. At Town Hall. And we watched clips from Memories of Murder and the host. And what was the last one, Karen? We did a parasite. Yeah, right. That one famous movie.

[00:11:22] But I feel like we had the most fun talking about the host. And I think about that clip all the time. I think about that scene all the time. It's so good.

[00:11:30] I mean, I do feel like it's the most like throwing a bowling ball and hit strike fun. You know what I mean? As opposed to the other ones, which are maybe like a little more.

[00:11:38] Not that this isn't not that the host isn't emotionally taxing, but it's a little more traditionally fun. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. 100 percent. Yeah. I'm just I'm flashing back. Not to be all Nikki Fink told you.

[00:11:53] But flashing back to that Oscar night, the last semi normal Oscar night. And we you and I both were sort of cynically like his fucking Mendes going to sweep this thing. Right. Right. I was trying to remember what the fear was, what the 1917 was. Yeah. Fucking 1917.

[00:12:12] And I feel like going into it, it was like it will feel like a victory if Bong wins one of the three. If he wins director, screenplay or picture. And you were like, maybe there's a scenario where they give Mendes director, but they throw a parasite picture.

[00:12:28] The opposite. You want one of the three. And it's like when he won the first one, you were like, I guess it's out of the running. I guess that was the consolation prize. And I was like, David, I think it's going to fucking go the distance.

[00:12:40] And then he won best director and you were like, it's absolutely going to 1917 now. Yeah. Yeah. And then the moment when it was like he fucking did it. Yeah.

[00:12:51] I feel like you could tell even in like watching his acceptance speeches where he's like, I got one like that's good. Probably not going to get another one. And then it's like, holy shit. This is also pretty good. Probably not going to get another one.

[00:13:00] And then they fucking did it. And he just like had international film in the back pocket the whole time. And it just kept on stacking up. It was a pretty incredible feeling. It was an amazing night. It was just really great.

[00:13:13] I don't know how else to describe it. Yeah. Yeah. I lost my mind. I cannot imagine. I feel like I've seen video of you. Yeah, there's video of Karen losing her mind. The most mortifying thing is that they played it on CNN.

[00:13:28] I was like, you didn't tell me you would be filming this video on national TV. And I wish I had known beforehand. I don't think I knew that. I remember it all. Yeah. But he didn't win. Bong, the loser, I call him. Yes. Big L.

[00:13:45] He won the Oscars, but that's a local show. This year, Blank Check was international. And I think some people are going to be like, oh, that's a local show. I'm like, no, that's a local show. I'm like, no, that's a local show.

[00:13:54] I'm like, no, that's a local show. And I think somewhat surprisingly, yes, it went to Park Chan-wook, who you have more of an up and down relationship with, you said, or just is that fair? I find it easier to rank his films, as it were. Okay, sure.

[00:14:04] All right. So this is number one. Yeah, baby. What's number two? Oh, I mean, I do really like Oldboy, which is maybe a boring choice. I also do like JSA. Yeah. Yeah. Oldboy's great.

[00:14:22] And also coming out again, I guess I don't know when this episode is coming out, but they're putting the movie back in theaters. So go watch it if you haven't. And also, please don't look anything up if you haven't and just go.

[00:14:30] It's coming out in about a month. Okay. Exactly a month. August 16th, this episode's dropping July 16th. Nice. And I am excited for that. And I think it's cool that it's coming back. That's great. You think everything that happens in that movie is cool?

[00:14:51] I think everyone's kind of like, oh, I'm going to watch this. I think everyone's good in Oldboy and smart. Everyone does a good job and nothing wrong. I think it's despicable. Everyone does kind of do a good—I mean, they get things done in Oldboy. They do.

[00:15:06] I'll give them that. There's actions taken. I think it's kind of despicable that director Park condones the behavior of every single character in that movie.

[00:15:14] Can you imagine if that movie freshly dropped right now and all of that media discourse was around Oldboy being like, wow, he supports this behavior? I am not saying this in the tone of, what are we going to reckon with Oldboy?

[00:15:28] But it is just kind of astounding how that movie is just completely grandfathered and is like, we all love this thing. Yeah. It's kind of universally beloved for a movie that perverse. And yes, if it came out tomorrow, it would destroy the internet.

[00:15:43] That having been said, the last couple of years, every year there's a movie that I think is going to be the one that destroys discourse and the one that actually does is something else. What most recently?

[00:15:54] I mean, there was the year where I felt like Licorice Pizza got the discourse that I thought Red Rocket was going to get. Oh, okay. Last year, I thought The Whale was going to be the one that destroyed the discourse.

[00:16:07] And instead, I think everyone was just kind of like, ugh. I don't even want to see it. I can't be bothered. And A24 was brilliant. They were like, you get one still. Yes. And then the movie was out and they're like, one still.

[00:16:21] And they're like, what do you mean? The movie's on DVD. One still. There's one picture of that movie. That's it. He's sitting. No more questions. I'm trying to even think, what is the one that I think got... I don't know.

[00:16:38] It even felt like at the end there was more people, more insane discourse around everything everywhere than there was The Whale. Yeah, it got really bad. Where everyone was just kind of like, whatever, whatever, whatever.

[00:16:48] I just feel like it's just like a reflection of how big those movies are or how mainstream they are. Because Licorice Pizza got that because it was Paul Thomas Anderson and more famous than whatever was going on with Red Rocket.

[00:17:00] And same with Everything Everywhere All At Once, where that had just so much more buzz. That even if it was positive, which it was, it had to curdle at some point. Oh, no, I'm sorry.

[00:17:12] I remember the one that felt like it was the monkey paw swap of The Whale, even though they're radically different films. I do think in the last month when it felt clear that everything was going to sweep, then all the ire went there.

[00:17:25] Glass Onion was the one that I felt like no one could be normal about for a movie that played at a film festival and everyone was like, fun! A good time. Yeah, don't release your movie on Netflix. That's the moral of that story in my opinion.

[00:17:41] A little catch there. Anyway, now everyone's normal about every movie. And that's good. Whenever a new movie comes out, people greet it with like, an entertaining flick. And that's all I have to say. People just tweet that over and over again. An entertaining flick. An entertaining flick.

[00:18:02] Yeah, Twitter is good again. I'm going to, as a social experiment, right now on Monday, June 19th at 9.30pm, we're recording this episode over Zoom because Karen's on the other side of the country. I'm going to just tweet a normal flick and that's all I have to say.

[00:18:21] And see how people respond to this. Everything you tweet is insane. Everyone's going to go crazy. And what they think I'm talking about. Mmm, I am interested to see the results of this experiment.

[00:18:33] Unfortunately, I don't think there's a lot of good answers to what you could be tweeting about right now, but go for it. A normal flick dot dot dot. How wrong could this go? And that's all I have to say. Exclamation point. Exclamation point.

[00:18:45] Everyone is going to think you're talking about The Flash. It's going to go so badly. Absolutely, that is the thing they're going to think I'm talking about. Mmm. The thing is, I do want to see Michael Keaton on the big screen. I have not seen The Flash yet.

[00:19:00] We're seeing him. I love Michael Keaton so much. He's looking good. I'm a big-time acting actor, and one of my favorite screen performances reprising it, a thing I thought would never happen. I'm treating the idea of going to see that movie like it is laundry. Yeah.

[00:19:16] The Flash! He run fast. He run fast. What you're missing right now is David doing his impression of The Flash running, which I have to say is very good. He does run in a funny way in those movies. He does run like that. He's like a speed skater.

[00:19:30] They have this whole thing they devised. Tim Robinson running really fast is sort of what I'm seeing here on the screen. I like this bit now. I'm turning my video off! That David is indistinguishable from Tim Robinson. One haircut and now... Lady Vengeance!

[00:19:45] What is the first film in this filmography that you would have seen, and when did you see Lady Vengeance? What's your relationship to this director? I actually think this was the first one that I watched because, similar to my relationship with Bong Joon-ho,

[00:20:01] I started watching Park Chon-ho's movies because of my dad, because he was into cinema and Korean cinema. And I think this was also his favorite movie. I'm not clear on that. But we had this DVD, and so it was the first one that I watched.

[00:20:16] And obviously it was very high impact. Yeah! How old would you have been? Late teens, probably. I don't think I was allowed to watch it for a little while. No! So you didn't see it when it came out in the States? You saw it on DVD or Blu-ray?

[00:20:36] Yeah. And so this was the first of his films that you saw. So a seminal favorite in a way for you. Yeah, I think so. I'm trying to think if I had seen any of the other ones before, but I don't think so.

[00:20:50] Yeah, this was the first one. And it set you on a clear course for the rest of your life in terms of seeking vengeance at all costs, right? Yes. I wear exclusively red eyeshadow now. It's a good look.

[00:21:04] It is really good. I do love that everyone was like, what's going on with that? Yeah, what is going on with that? Because your friends would! If you just suddenly changed your look, they'd be like, why are you goth now?

[00:21:16] Yeah, well, but it looks cool. That's all you'd have to say. I mean, she's so great. I mean, yeah, when people change their appearance, you know, people sometimes will notice and they'll be like, wow, wait, look at what you've done.

[00:21:29] Now, Karen, I don't know if you've heard the news. This is the first episode to come out since we have revealed this publicly. You can't see it, Ben.

[00:21:38] But it's also the first episode of this miniseries that we're doing over Zoom where someone has not had the ability to study Ben in person.

[00:21:45] But Ben recently made a radical physical transformation that is in and of itself announcing a brand new era in his life and his identity. Absolutely.

[00:21:59] Bad Boy 2.0. Now, I think truly, Ben, try holding your ear as close up to the screen as you possibly can. I want to see if there's any way this is... Yeah, I see it. Okay, you see the little glimmer? Yeah, absolutely. That's nice. Yep. It's a new chapter.

[00:22:18] How long do you have to keep that stud before you can do like different ones? Four months. Four months, okay. Do you have plans already? A big hoop. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. I can't wait for that. Me too.

[00:22:34] Here's a question for the group. Has anyone... Which version was watched in terms of the regular or the fade to white as it's called?

[00:22:47] Oh, is it fade to white? Well, the first time I saw this movie was the standard version and I think re-watching it for this time, I watched it on Mubi and the version that they have is the fade to black and white version.

[00:23:01] It is incorrectly on the Blu-ray Griffin called the fade to white version, which would make no sense. I know. I just thought it sounded kind of poetic, but I was going off of what it said on the back.

[00:23:12] But imagine if the screen just was white in the last third of the movie. It's like, wait a second, I can't see anything.

[00:23:20] But yeah, this was the first time that I'd seen this version of it. And while I was watching it, I was like, I don't remember this movie being like this.

[00:23:27] I watched it this way. I had never seen that version of it before, but I've got the Blu-ray and it's available. And I was like, I've seen this movie. I'll try this out. And I gotta say, I think it's pretty cool. I was impressed. Fucking effective.

[00:23:43] And I got the little intro from sexy, sexy director Park two minutes in describing that. He looks good in the intro. He looks very cool. He's an incredibly handsome man. He's got great hair.

[00:23:57] Great hair and it's really working for him in this video. It's all big and poofy and he's got his glasses and he's just like, yeah, here was my idea with this whole like fading to color thing.

[00:24:10] And I hope you like it. He's not being like, hello, it is I, the master of cinema. Well that's Koreans for you. It's very, it's very cool. I think.

[00:24:23] Let's just clarify his original intent was in the second half of the movie. The color starts fading away gradually until you get to a point that it's basically black and white with certain highlighted color elements.

[00:24:36] A sort of subtler version of a sense city type thing. So they shot the movie with that intent.

[00:24:45] And then when director Park saw the footage from the second half of the movie, he thought it looked so good in color that it would be a shame to take the color out of it.

[00:24:55] And also it sounded like there was a bit of a thing where when they tried the process, they weren't happy with the effect.

[00:25:02] So they released it full color all the way through. And then after the movie was a success on DVD, they sort of went back and did that original version. So now both did it up exist out there in the ether.

[00:25:15] Yeah. I mean, it's funny that like sort of similar stuff has also happened with Parasite and also Mother not to just talk about Bong again, but like the black and white version of Parasite came out like when like the Oscar campaign was going out so people could have a different version of watch.

[00:25:29] And then with Mother, like they had originally done it. I think they had thought about it in pre-production of just doing it in black and white.

[00:25:35] But then when it obviously just released in full color and then the cinematographer went back to do it in black and white and originally just as like a gift for the crew to watch again. But that version is out there somewhere if you want to find it.

[00:25:49] Yeah, they've played it at like a couple film festivals. I think it's harder to find that. I never watched the black and white Parasite cut. I don't know. I guess I'd watch it if you made me. I like the colors though.

[00:26:03] Yeah, it does look really good. I mean, that's sort of the thing with this movie too where like the standard version is also really beautiful. Like that was what I was thinking in the scene where she finally does meet the adult Wonmo like in the bathroom.

[00:26:16] Like my memory of that is like very clear with like that sort of orange yellow tile and like that's the version of it that I think of which was why when I was watching it I was like wait did I like totally just like fugue state in this movie being in color?

[00:26:29] I mean, yeah, it's interesting. When he looked at the footage he was taken enough with it that he had second thoughts about taking the color out of it. What's the DP's name? It's his usual DP now. It's Chung Chun-hoon.

[00:26:44] He basically said like if I had known they he would have released it with the color in I would have lit everything differently. So I think he prefers... Don't worry about it buddy. Like it's great either way is the thing.

[00:27:01] I watched it on Tubi and it was kind of disconcerting to have ads pop up at certain moments in the movie. You could use a Modelo light around now couldn't you? It would really be jarring to be honest.

[00:27:19] This movie's also got the fractured timeline thing going on where it's jumping all around from sort of like her memories the present her perception of things or whatever. If it just suddenly cuts to a Swiffer commercial probably takes a second to realize it's not part of the film.

[00:27:33] Yeah, yeah, I would recommend getting a Blu-ray or watching a movie. Well Lady Vengeance let me give you guys some context about it. There is this whole sort of backstory to the quote-unquote Vengeance trilogy, which is a very informal trilogy.

[00:27:56] That when he was doing a press conference about Oldboy, director Park was sort of like asked something along the lines of like why another movie about vengeance and he was like what's wrong with vengeance? There's a long history of vengeance in storytelling going back to mythology.

[00:28:14] So he said I can do 10 films. In fact, I'm planning a third film right now.

[00:28:19] And then he says like and that was the first time he had even thought the idea and he was like what if I did a Vengeance movie with a lady sort of a lady vengeance. If you like that is look, I think he's a self-deprecating person.

[00:28:37] Like I don't I don't know if it's exactly right like this simple, but he does basically say like I don't know. I just you know, that'll show them you can do more bad.

[00:28:47] That's what like that's how all filmmakers should respond when someone criticizes them for like repeating themselves. Just be like it's a franchise. Yeah, right. Yeah, I'll do another one.

[00:28:59] It's the same line as she does like no not as I was like well because the line that she says when she comes out of the prison in the first time and she says it's translated as go screw yourself.

[00:29:08] But the more literal translation of that is like why don't you mind your own business basically? And that's the vibe of it where it's like maybe I like vengeance. Yeah, we know see the movie don't see the movie now.

[00:29:21] Apparently his real first inspiration for this movie was the case of the frog boys. Do you know about this Karen?

[00:29:28] I don't know that specifically but I know that he's talked about it was because he I watched an interview with him recently where he was saying like he was inspired to make this by a story of a young woman who killed a young boy while pregnant and so that's the second thing.

[00:29:43] Okay, the first thing was there's some sort of famous case of five teenage boys or less than teenage actually most of them were.

[00:29:49] Around 10 11 12 who went missing in Korea in 1991 they were supposedly looking for salamander eggs for some reason it became known as the frog egg boys and they were never found. They were found many many years later in 2002 and they were probably murdered.

[00:30:13] They had some kind of blunt force trauma.

[00:30:16] I don't know I think it's very it's still no one really knows what happened and he was thinking of doing a movie about this very case and then the boys were found the bodies were found and he decided like okay I can't I can't do like exactly that because it'll it's whatever because it's too complicated to actually sort of draft off of this case.

[00:30:40] And then yes he also had this other real life story about a woman who a pregnant woman who had stolen a child I guess is what he had ducted a child and he was like I would love to understand why you know something like that would happen and I want to have a female protagonist.

[00:31:03] He says an old boy the lead female character Mido she doesn't she's not privy to the truth and that didn't sit right with him.

[00:31:13] Obviously the necessity of the narrative is she doesn't know what's going on but it is obviously quite distressing what happens to her in old boy.

[00:31:19] And he says you know in the film industry we haven't had a lot of female protagonists when you place a woman at the center of a film it makes the film much more enriched and sophisticated and he's got a daughter who he talks about all the time.

[00:31:35] He's always making the most demented movies on earth and he's like I was making this sort of you know with my daughter in mind. I feel like after this he uses a lot of female protagonists. Yeah. Like Karen.

[00:31:49] No sorry I just I before we move on from this of relevance to our guest. Karen do you know we've pulled up basically every time he says that he made the movie for his daughter inspired by his daughter and his daughter sees the movie and is unimpressed.

[00:32:05] The comparison point is always she's more into pirates of the Caribbean. Yes. He's always like do you like I'm a cyborg but that's OK and she's like no I like Jack Sparrow. I'm more of a gore head. That's hysterical.

[00:32:22] I mean I know he he's also said that he wanted to give Young the lead actress something more to do after JSA as well. Mm hmm.

[00:32:31] Yeah she's because in JSA at the start you're like great this movie is about her like she's she's the investigator she's uncovering the case and then like pretty quickly you're like no no no no it's about it's about you know all the boyfriends.

[00:32:46] It's also worth noting that this movie came out right after she was done with this K-drama called Daejanggeum which is she was like one of the most famous people in Korea at this point and like that drama is still like very very well known.

[00:33:03] Yes I believe that drama was watched by like half the country right. It's on her Wikipedia page. Yeah it's really really nuts and like I mean she apparently like had sort of wanted to do something different which this very much fits the bill.

[00:33:18] Do you have any insight Karen there's like a huge gap in her career where she does this in 05 and then comes back to TV in 2017 doesn't do another movie until 2019 but there's basically like a 12 year gap with no credits.

[00:33:32] Yeah I mean I don't know personally but what I would speculate is that this is this tends to be something that happens to female celebrities basically of a certain age where it's like you get married and you have kids and that's sort of like what you do.

[00:33:48] And I and that said she also like wasn't just gone for that time like she was in a lot of ads I still think like even like I just went to Korea town in LA recently and she is still in some ads on there.

[00:33:59] She became like a different kind of celebrity. Right. Like even just off the back of Tae Jang Geum she probably I think was even pre that wasn't a lot of ads because she was so beautiful.

[00:34:11] So this comes out in 2005 2007 she becomes the global ambassador of LG household and health care's premium beauty brand 2009 she's married 2011 she has twins 2017 she returns to acting. Yeah you just kind of don't have to do anything if you're getting that kind of ad money.

[00:34:31] Yeah that's well but she's a good actor. She's terrific. Yeah. So my hat is off to her if she wants to act more I'd support her. I think she should do it. She's got a number of credits since 2017 like now she's back.

[00:34:47] Yeah. Seems to be a fair amount of TV especially but yeah she has done. Yeah.

[00:34:52] But yeah you're right right. She's in JSA and she is somewhat underused although she's very very you know charming and yeah you know arresting in it like but but also yeah no I just feel like after this it's like you know I'm a cyborg that sort of co-leads thirst song Kang Ho is the lead of that obviously Stoker.

[00:35:16] Yeah. He's a female lead handmaid and are female leads decision to leave is sort of a two hander there like you know I feel like he does pivot more to female protagonists after Lady Vengeance. You got to have a girl around if you're trying to be horny.

[00:35:32] I you know and he's very horny. That is the kind of Robert McKee level insight you should be peddling a master class care. You should be sitting in a big leather chair. Yeah. You know you got to have a girl around if you want there to be horniness.

[00:35:49] But he's such a horny director. Yeah but he's also a girl dad. Yeah. I would say this is one of his less horny films. Yes that is correct. Not that it does not have prison cunnilingus. You know there's there's some there's some shocking material.

[00:36:06] He is upsetting. Yeah it's bad. It's quite upsetting. Yes. Usually his movies are I guess certainly shot through with some horniness. Yeah there's there's no it doesn't feel like there's any really good sex in this movie.

[00:36:20] No no. Well no one's having a good time in this. No. No. Period. At any point. Right. Lady Vengeance. OK.

[00:36:31] With Old Boy that's the first time Park had worked with Chung Chung Hoon who is the cinematographer who works on him with it with every movie going forward all the way to the Handmaiden and now inexplicably not inexplicably because he's incredibly talented but he's now working in Hollywood and he did last night in Soho and.

[00:36:52] Please Uncharted. Oh. Wow. I remember looking bad but I don't remember it looking good. And he also did every episode of Obi Wan Kenobi. Oh wow. Does that another show where I'm like I don't remember it looking bad but I don't remember it looking good.

[00:37:14] It's kind of dark in my memory you know like all those Disney plus shows you're kind of like what's going on. I wish he'd gotten on and or. And that's a good looking show. Yeah. That's a handsome show.

[00:37:28] And he also co-wrote this movie with Chung Sook Young. I mean Karen help me with these names. I mean you don't have to help me but you know tell me if I'm totally wrong probably. Well you know. Yes I mean.

[00:37:45] You're Korean pronunciation is surprisingly excellent. Also Korean romanization is fucked up man like it's never quite right. Right. Right. I know that there's it's a losing battle here for me to try to do it accurately. You can just cut in me saying them in the edit.

[00:38:04] For every episode can we go back and get to it. That definitely wouldn't get weird at any point. No no no. And he's written all of his films since except for Stoker with with this person. But she is I guess she's just very positive on him.

[00:38:24] Even though he she's she's coming aboard with him post old boy she's like he's always treated me as an equal partner like even though I kind of thought he was so impressive.

[00:38:34] She told this amazing story about the table read for this movie where apparently Young initially came in and did a much I guess like harsher or kind of bolder read of Kumbha.

[00:38:46] And she could tell that like that Park and everyone else in the room was kind of like oh I don't think this is really what this part demands or I don't think this is really working.

[00:38:55] And but no one was saying it because Young is so famous. And so eventually she was the one who was like hey like I don't think this is really working or like don't you think you should try this a little differently.

[00:39:06] And she could feel like the whole room just go cold because again like this is the most famous person in the room like you can't really tell her what to do in that respect.

[00:39:14] But then later and someone else in the interview was like so director Park like didn't back you up at all. She was like no he hung me out to dry. But but she made it work. Absolutely. Griff I just noticed that you tweeted that tweet again.

[00:39:31] I had a typo the first time. So OK. OK. OK. I was just interested. Yeah. Yeah. No I'm not trying to juice up my numbers unfolding saga.

[00:39:40] I wanted a pure sample. Well OK so Will Will Goss friend of the podcast quote tweeted the one with the typo a good joke and then he thankfully did it again with the corrected tweet which is a normal flick and that's all I have to say.

[00:39:56] And then his quote tweet above it is Griff reviewing a bug's life in 1998 which is the most correct and most innocent interpretation. The only guess I saw from anyone was assuming that I'd seen Mission Impossible early.

[00:40:09] I was worried that would come through to you. That would be my guess. Your take on Mission Impossible 7 was that it was normal which would which would be a weird thing to walk out of the theater with. How is it normal.

[00:40:20] Yeah. And that's all I have to say. Yeah. So far no one's assuming it's Flash which is good.

[00:40:26] There's still time. Chung also says Park's wife should basically be credited in all his movies which the director has also said that she always sort of looks at all his scripts and rewrites them anyway.

[00:40:47] All right. So Lady Vengeance sort of a deceptively simple narrative I would say but presented disorienting Lee as is that crazy.

[00:41:01] Like if you actually lay it all out end to end you can sort of comprehend it fairly quickly but it just you know the way he unfolds it is is what's you know arrest keeps keeps you sort of guessing right.

[00:41:17] I mean it is structured in like a mystery in that way where you get the clues as he wants you to get them and you don't get it just A to B.

[00:41:25] But I also think that's the case with almost all of his films like I mean Oldboy is really kind of the exception because Oldboy is like you basically know as much as the protagonist knows and you're trying to figure out alongside him.

[00:41:38] Sure. Versus this one big thing he does. No. But most of the other ones like Handmaiden does a similar thing where you think you understand what movie you're watching and then it kind of keeps resetting the timeline your understanding your perspective.

[00:41:56] That said I think even this if you laid it out linearly there's still sort of that twist like when the final act like begins the reveal that the final act hinges on like that totally changes where you think the story is going or at least it did for me with the first time that I saw this.

[00:42:14] Absolutely. So he's starting with the person he's starting with this character. How do you how do you say her name Karen. This is one of the gum. Yeah.

[00:42:26] So he says like you know she's just you know she's decided to prescribe an execute revenge on this Mr. Bank that for the person who turned into a criminal and he's you know Park is sort of like in a way it doesn't seem like enough initially like as you're saying like you know when you're watching it you're like OK she's decided to go after this guy who participated in some.

[00:42:56] In some way you know but like you don't really know what's going on.

[00:43:00] And Park said he basically structured it this way where you don't really totally know every layer of it because he wanted a sense of isolation between the audience and the protagonist he didn't want you to identify with the protagonist really he wanted you.

[00:43:17] He wanted her to feel like she's sort of like outside of reality in a way outside of society right like she does feel almost superpowered or supernatural or something you know like like that she can like x-ray people with her eyes. I don't know how to describe.

[00:43:31] There's also there's this whole element to like this character pled guilty. There is a media narrative that we're basically introduced to as we're introduced to her in the movie where you understand the way the public thinks of her. It's a narrative that she continues to perpetuate.

[00:43:48] And so you're both sort of hearing her telling at times of this sort of accepted version of the story and then slowly peeling back selectively depending on who she's talking to and what she's trying to accomplish what really was going on and then why she even got herself into the situation where she would have pled guilty.

[00:44:09] Yeah, I mean it comes across so beautifully in her performance where she seems so calm and collected at all times like throughout I would say like the first 50% of the movie there's only one scene and it's like two seconds where you see her not guarded somehow like the very first day that she gets into prison where she's crying like that's the only moment that you see her as anything else like otherwise.

[00:44:31] She's acting in a certain way whether it's acting as this angel for people to like her in prison or acting as this very kind of hard to approach woman as soon as she gets out. Yes, I love. What's his name? He's in.

[00:44:48] Oh, he's got such a strange face. And the hair got a funny face right? He's got the blonde hair and all boy. He's like the bodyguard guy and in this he's got this like mushroom hair. He's like her biggest fan. He man haircut. Yeah, speaking my language.

[00:45:07] But yeah, what what a weird face that man has I really my hat is off to his weird face. He's not that important in this movie obviously, but he is he is he is. He's around. Yeah, I love you. I love you.

[00:45:22] When the movie is sort of keeping you in the dark is when he has his the greatest mass screen time where at least his hair is something you can hold on to it's like a consistent life raft.

[00:45:35] No, it's an interesting starting point to basically have this woman who pled guilty to like a horrendous crime. But you're introduced to her as here she is being released.

[00:45:50] She's basically this cause celeb as like an example in the public eye of like prison reform in effect right or prisoner reform. Yeah. In effect right here.

[00:46:02] Look at her what a transformation she made and it's like, you know a because it's like look at this hot lady who went to jail in this way that like does happen in the media, you know, yeah where when people get weirdly sexually attracted to a criminal but also the idea of like well, it does seem like she changed inside and then the movie just starts immediately peeling away like.

[00:46:25] We're presenting someone to you did something that's seemingly unforgivable, but the public has basically forgiven her for it. And then we're going to untangle why she actually didn't do it and why she's now justified for what she's about to do.

[00:46:42] Yeah, the explanation so fun like I do like the flashback structure like getting to meet each of the women that she befriends in prison is for me like the most fun part of this movie because there's not that much to be found at the end of it.

[00:46:55] Yes and also you're initially like okay is this about her assembling a crew of right of ragtag weirdos like okay, you know, I can get on board with that.

[00:47:04] We've been recording Ocean's trilogy and and and the the surrounding movies films at the Ocean's films commentaries for patreon and there is this section of the movie that feels like that where it's like why is she assembling this ragtag crew and you're almost like learning about a heist in reverse.

[00:47:26] It is so good though like the way that it's set up because I feel like the intro to every woman fits that mold.

[00:47:37] But as soon as you see the meeting outside of prison, it's so clear like in either women themselves comment on this where they're like oh you're just using us like you were you don't actually have any affection for us like we are a means to an end for you.

[00:47:50] I mean she's she's got nothing left other than like means to an end at this point right it does feel like she's a person who exists basically driven entirely right.

[00:48:03] Right she is she's sort of a non-person she is both not the you know yeah the angel she presented herself as in prison but she's also everything she's doing feels calculated out of prison in some way and it's just about trying to understand what the calculation is.

[00:48:23] And initially obviously you think that she's a scary villain because she killed a baby that a child a child a child but she didn't actually do it guys she didn't do that spoiler alert.

[00:48:39] Yes I'm not sure exactly what it's sort of revealed in flashback what probably like sort of half an hour 40 minutes into the movie I'm trying to think of when that when that becomes super clear.

[00:48:52] I don't know it doesn't take too long because it's it's it's pretty much revealed like you get a pretty clear sense of it as soon as the detective comes to the bakery as soon as she gets that job like it becomes very clear that she did not actually commit this murder.

[00:49:08] She starts yes work at a bakery with a cute cutie shop assistant who she is mean and scary to.

[00:49:15] And because he's young and was young when her case happened he does not know and so she has to explain it to him after we've like already just sort of been brought midstream into the redemption arc.

[00:49:33] You have to hear her explain what she has been accused of which is like as we said pretty upsetting and terrifying and then it's quick sidebar the bakery owner or those who that actor is the voice of the monster in the host and also was recently semi canceled.

[00:49:51] Interesting Oh No for being the monster what a cool guy. No it was like some sexual harassment thing. Well that's also monsters different kind of monster. Yeah we should mention I guess we haven't mentioned within the episode yet that all four of us.

[00:50:06] I came on the zoom and I picked the same zoom background that David did so then Ben and Karen both match it and all four of us have the exact same background which is described the background a very iconic image from this. This is like a dream sequence.

[00:50:23] Yeah of her. How do you even she's she's like in the middle of like snowy plains dragging a sort of taxidermied horse. It's like a dog convert dog walking horse dog man sled but with the human head right. And then she shoots it with a gun.

[00:50:48] She also has a bad ass leather sort of jacket dress on and boots and she looks absolutely one bajillion dollars.

[00:50:58] But yes it's one of it's one of the things that I feel like the movie throws out in its first hour where it's just like chew on that animals which is sort of the magic of Park Show.

[00:51:11] I just feel like you know if I sat down and told you the narrative of one of his movies you would be like that's pretty crazy.

[00:51:21] And I would be like sure beyond that he also is going to tell it to you in a pretty aggressive and unusual way. Yeah this will not be related conventionally.

[00:51:32] Can we for the sake of making it easier to talk about just basically lay out the bones of what's going on. Go for the bones of their money. Yes and so are the worms.

[00:51:44] I mean let's make this a group effort because I want to make sure I don't fuck this up. She gets pregnant as a teenager. Yeah she approaches her teacher. Yes played by Choi Min-sik. The star of Old Boy. Yeah no no please no don't be sorry.

[00:52:01] Star of Old Boy. She's just feels like just unafraid to take any part. I know he's a major major major Korean actor but like God bless him after old boy. Partial. How about this part. He's like yeah sure whatever.

[00:52:18] Like understandably terrified doesn't know what to do about the kid terrified of the judgment of being made to be an outcast. What have you. So she goes to him in her terror for help. And he basically in exchange for the child's life.

[00:52:39] So she goes to him in her terror for help. And he basically in exchange for getting the child put up for adoption and covering her pregnancy ropes her into helping him in an ongoing sort of ransom ring scam. He is going on kidnapping children.

[00:53:03] She is not aware that it's ongoing. Right. Right. And I believe I believe this is the first time that it happens. Right. That's my impression. Yeah because she tells the detective at the end if you caught him then these other kids wouldn't be dead.

[00:53:20] Right. So much of what I feel like her profound sort of guilt and shift in approach in the latter part of the movies her realizing like this right further crimes could have been prevented.

[00:53:31] But it's it's very much like all these horrifying stories you hear in real life of these weird you know like sex control cults whatever except it's sort of micro targeted to just her basically using her.

[00:53:47] But there are always these things of like creating these systems of control and power. You owe me favors and you're in a position where you can't say no to my whims and what have you. And so yes she doesn't totally understand what she's doing.

[00:53:58] Once she does she's into.

[00:54:01] I also was under the impression that the the intention maybe I'm wrong about this but the intention wasn't to give up the child prior to her going to jail because later she tells Jenny like I had to give you up because I went to jail as opposed to I plan to give you up before that.

[00:54:16] I think that's ambiguous. Yeah she's just help I guess. And we don't really right. We don't really know what it all goes wrong because. Yeah. Right. He's a child. That's sort of person who ever lived. Additional twist. The worst person you could go to. He's really bad.

[00:54:36] Bad because he kidnaps children for ransom money and in fact he pretends that he's kidnapping children for ransom money so that he can just murder them to get his rocks off. Yeah he's very bad.

[00:54:48] Just FYI also to blank check listeners and voters I am increasingly like why did you pick this director who I admire and love but who half of his goddamn movies are about child murder. David doesn't like child murder. David's come out recently to be an anti child.

[00:55:08] It is worse when you have a child advocate. Yeah. And the weird thing is I actually rewatched the entire Vengeance Trilogy when my daughter was like three months old.

[00:55:19] I think they got I think I mentioned this they put them on Criterion Channel or something like that and I was like oh man like you know I'm going to watch those like Vengeance Trilogy and I watched them no problem whatsoever which is a great sign of how cooked your brain is when you have an infant.

[00:55:35] You're just kind of like yeah whatever. What are they doing. Also she wasn't talking. She was like a potato. She was a potato. She didn't care. I mean she watched the whole damn thing with me. It's insane. Let her be in the room for this.

[00:55:48] She gave them all four out of five on Letterboxd. She was into it. She's big on Letterboxd. Yes. My daughter is huge on Letterboxd. Yes she's a I don't know insert the name of a funny Letterboxd user there. Emoji pointing finger up question mark. Exactly.

[00:56:05] And my daughter does say up a lot which means. But but yeah I rewatched this movie and I'd already watched you know the other two Vengeance movies which are not exactly you know fucking light affairs.

[00:56:22] And for some bandanas reason I even remembered the ending of this movie where I'm like yeah then they all get together in like a big abandoned schoolhouse and they kill him. I was like why did they kill him. I don't know.

[00:56:35] And I just forgot how awful you know like and I had to I mean I had to pass. It is a horror. It's like an incredible ending but it's it's horrible. It's very impressive.

[00:56:49] Yeah I think the ending of this movie is amazing and I think it's such a cool and interesting ending to a quote unquote Vengeance trilogy.

[00:56:57] Like I know that the idea of this trilogy is somewhat informal but I do think like it's fascinating for him to watch like to present like a group Vengeance.

[00:57:09] That is executed in this sort of like thought through and quote unquote moral you know and also completely insane way like it is it's like where he's just like does this make sense.

[00:57:21] And you're like obviously what you're showing me is so surreal but also yes it makes sense. Like that you have to grapple with that. So much of this trilogy is about like the ugliness of Vengeance right.

[00:57:34] And he's sort of like going up against the reliability of the like revenge-o-matic as a genre movie and digging into the actual underpinnings of the emotion of what's driving those kinds of movies rather than just making it the surface level fun.

[00:57:51] But this is the movie where I almost feel like he's going trying to circle back around yet again and go like but within the tone of Vengeance that I've set within these films can I almost make a set of circumstances where you start to question whether it is justified.

[00:58:11] Like Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance is just like this guy keeps fucking up the situation just gets worse and worse if you operate from this place everything just like unravels. And then Old Boy is just like these two people destroying each other's lives.

[00:58:27] This is the most straightforward in that respect. Yeah. And then this is basically just like setting the deck so wildly that you basically get to the point where you're like do I think that 30 different people are justified in murdering a man? Yeah. It's funny. It's like a dozen.

[00:58:47] The writer talked about this where like when she was writing the script she asked Park like hey like what what did he need that money for you know where they ask him at the end where it's like what do you need that money for he doesn't have a family doesn't have kids.

[00:58:58] What does he need the money for and Park said like oh it's like for a yeah like almost kind of offhandedly was my understanding of it. And at first you're like wait what that doesn't make any sense.

[00:59:07] But then you're like no this completely justifies the anger that these parents are feeling at the end.

[00:59:13] It like it makes it worse where it's just he's doing this for a purpose that's so stupid and so silly that and has hurt so many people in such a profound way. Yeah well my take on it maybe I'm over reading it right.

[00:59:31] But like she thought he was doing it for the money. Then she finds out he was doing it for the love of murder and then it raises the question of like then what did he do with the money right. It's almost like take he would take the money.

[00:59:45] Of course he would make a ransom call. My read was like oh it's almost like the murder. The money was the red herring to keep his name clean is just your run of the mill child kidnapper rather than a murderer.

[00:59:57] And then once he had the money it's like what are you going to spend it on. I don't know. Money wasn't the point for me. What a rich people buy a yacht you know which is almost like more disgusting to be like.

[01:00:07] So he also took our money and it wasn't even for any greater purpose. Like all of it is just so craven and hollow. Wait should we lay out the rest of the story. Yes. So she goes to this guy.

[01:00:21] She is seen taking the child to the bathhouse and he forces her to take the fall by basically abducting her child and being like hey if you don't take the fall I'm also going to kill your baby. So she goes to jail. She confesses to it.

[01:00:33] The detective sort of realizes that there's something wrong but can't do anything about it. She goes to jail. She helps a bunch of women in jail and to the point that they owe her favors basically once they get out. She gets out of jail.

[01:00:44] She collects on all those favors to try to exact revenge on this guy. She manages to kidnap him. In the meanwhile she reconnects with her daughter who was adopted out to Australia and then comes back to Korea with her.

[01:00:58] In the process of kidnapping this man she realized that he has killed four more kids and at that point decides to bring those parents into it.

[01:01:06] To sort of that's when like the real like sort of justice part happens because she goes to the detective and is like what are we going to do about this fucking shit.

[01:01:12] All the parents come to a school an abandoned schoolhouse in the middle of nowhere where Mr. Peck is held captive and they decide what to do with him which is they will all kill him together. Right. They will which is which is complicated.

[01:01:27] They will kill him but slowly enough that they can sort of spread it out among a bunch of people so everyone can kind of have their shot at it. Well they will take a picture all together so that we are all culpable in this. Exactly.

[01:01:44] It's both like let everyone have their little bit of catharsis and ownership of this but also everyone's equally guilty now so no one can really turn on anyone else. Right. But he does deserve it. Yeah.

[01:02:03] You know as much as you can say that people deserve these things right which is obviously a sort of fraught question but yes he's so comically evil.

[01:02:13] But that's my point it's like he's made two movies where he's basically saying like is it insane that we think about this this way of that like vengeance must be paid right. You need to get revenge on these people who do these things to you.

[01:02:25] Does anything good come of it and then this feels like the movie where he's daring you to not support it. You know.

[01:02:33] Yeah I mean you didn't even pose a question where she's like the other option is we just hand him over to the cops and everyone's like that's not going to do anything. Right what happens right.

[01:02:41] What comes of it like I don't think he's saying like would you in this position do the same thing but I certainly think as an audience member you get to the point where you're like well absolutely yes as me the person watching this in the comfort of a seat.

[01:02:56] Yeah these characters should fucking murder this guy slowly bit by bit. That whole sequence is so harrowing to watch like the first introduction of the parents where it's intercut with them just sitting there to their reactions like minutes later is like so horrible.

[01:03:14] And that's really when I asked for that if you're watching the fades of black and white version. Yeah. When the film really has suddenly like crept up on you and become basically monochrome and it does put everything into very stark relief in an effective way.

[01:03:31] And then it's an oral B commercial all of a sudden. Yes of course the famous scene where it cuts to a water pick. Yes. He has cast such good faces for all of those parents too is the thing like they all have really striking expressions.

[01:03:50] Here's another thing I was thinking about with him because he's so good at using these sort of scene fragments because he will kind of like obfuscate his narrative and give it to you out of order but also he will give you sometimes just the briefest moment of a scene.

[01:04:09] Of a setting of a time of a place just to give you some image in your head. And it always feels so lived in and like emotionally deep. And especially for movies where people are dealing with incredibly difficult things.

[01:04:24] You know like Lady Bird is a movie that does a similar thing where there are a lot of like 15 second scenes in that movie as it like jumps ahead but it's a comedy.

[01:04:32] You know there's like emotion in that film but the tone of it is fairly light even when the characters are yelling at each other versus like this is a movie that will cut into someone who has just heard the worst news you can possibly imagine.

[01:04:45] And it's just that for 10 or 15 seconds before it cuts over to the next thing. It's really effective.

[01:04:51] It's really effective but it's also just like I think it is an underrated skill set of like someone like Tarantino talks about he never will do a pickup where he just has an actor like just do the one line.

[01:05:07] Oh I'm only going to use this shot this angle for this one line so just say this line for this setup.

[01:05:13] Or even if it's like a pickup an insert shot of someone picking something up from a table he wants to do the full scene top to bottom so that the actors have the ability to live in it and the emotions are right.

[01:05:24] So when they do the one thing that you're actually going to use from that setup it's invested with enough weight.

[01:05:30] I don't know how he does it but it's like you're seeing these scenes that are almost sort of like ellipses of what you could imagine being a 10 minute scene in a different movie.

[01:05:40] But every time he cuts to it you feel the intensity of that actual scene playing out in full.

[01:05:48] It's funny I mean it's just such a meticulously planned out movie like sort of what you were saying like even with the prison flashbacks sometimes you only see like five seconds of it at the beginning and then you'll sort of get more context for it later.

[01:06:00] And that's part of the fun of it like figuring out what's going on.

[01:06:03] And also like he knows what details to fixate on I guess like even there's the one most parents like they know later on in the movie where it's like the father like couldn't handle blood at all and it's the mom who eventually has to go in and enact her vengeance because her husband kind of doesn't have the right temperament to do it.

[01:06:21] But then like at the beginning that details like already planted where Kimja goes to their house to try to atone for what she's done by cutting off her fingers.

[01:06:29] And it's all in there and there's also like there's so many fun moments like the prison scene where there's something happening in the foreground but you see Kimja coming in in the back and it's still like out of focus.

[01:06:40] But then the character leaves and slips on the soap and falls and it's all just planted in there you just have to be paying attention to it. That's very interesting I did not put I feel like some of that together.

[01:06:54] I also want to point out the actress that plays that horrible woman in the prison Kosu he is I think one of the sweetest people in the world early she seems like it in real life.

[01:07:03] I highly recommend there's a reality series called Jump Like a Witch on Netflix where a bunch of Korean women celebrities try to form a basketball team and she's on it and she's so so sweet and nice it's insane. Whoa. What a guy.

[01:07:17] A lot of things just I'm sorry. One little run there Carol. Mine is a stop and circle back for a moment. Sure.

[01:07:25] Wait there's a reality show in which Korean celebrities try to form a basketball team like so it's like a bunch of adult women Korean celebrities who form a basketball team.

[01:07:35] It's a sort of an offshoot of a pre-existing show where a bunch of like men form a sports team but for this one is specifically a bunch of adult women forming a basketball team.

[01:07:44] None of them have really played basketball before and so there's like musicians newscaster and also this actress in there and she's terrific. What's it called again? Jump Like a Witch. Of course. Well that even raises some more questions.

[01:08:00] How much of the show with the way you put it like trying to form a team. It's because they're all really bad at it at the beginning.

[01:08:07] Sure but like how much of the show is about the games versus like have you really gotten into like the team spirit like how much of it's about like you know just their basic like working demeanor with each other. They develop locker room energy pretty quickly.

[01:08:22] So the fun of it is like them trying to support each other as they play basketball really badly like they also like some of the first exercises are they pit them against a team of children. Apparently she's also in Barking Dogs Never Fight.

[01:08:39] She is and she's in she's also in The Host. She's in one of Bond's shorts. She's terrific. She's terrific. She's underrated. So okay one thing I want to say this is I found this in the dossier. This is interesting.

[01:08:54] So there's a Japanese film called and this is another great title Female Prisoner 701 colon Scorpion. Yeah good. Which is a Japanese women in prison film that had several sequels and is kind of your classic like women convicts escape from jail form a brigade go and lose vengeful hell.

[01:09:19] Right. Cool. And Park Park says like in the first act of Lady Vengeance I'm kind of alluding to that.

[01:09:27] I'm trying to draw the audiences in with those kinds of cliches of the revenge story and then when she is going to you know when she finds out about the other victims is when I'm basically shattering that right. I'm just dropping it completely.

[01:09:43] And it is it is quite a clever you know you it's because she's such an impassive maybe that's not the word but like she's such a sort of striking and impressive and scary figure and you're sort of like what's going on with her. She's a little inscrutable.

[01:09:56] Yeah like it is it is you know you can you can just sort of go with the like well I guess she's you know forming a vengeance team. Yeah I mean about Lady Vengeance.

[01:10:05] That's what makes later scenes more impactful the fact that she so carefully hides her emotions the scenes in which she doesn't are the ones where you feel more scared of her.

[01:10:15] There's this is another thing that director Park said at one point which is the scene where after they've drugged Chae Min-sik and she's cutting his hair apparently he will still talk about the fact that he was so scared shooting that scene because she was so intense while she was shooting it.

[01:10:32] Oh yeah right. Yeah. Okay so yeah it's not the prison recruitment is there anything in particular there we need to highlight because I feel like there's a lot of big interesting characters and backstories that we learn.

[01:10:47] I mean I love the couple that gets arrested for doing a robbery together. They're so sweet. And also his tattoo of like the arm into the arm into the arm shooting a gun is terrific. It is a cool tattoo.

[01:11:01] I have the menu for the arrow Blu-ray playing in a loop right now on my TV so I keep on seeing that shot of the tattoo every 10 seconds. David you were saying you want to get a tattoo you should get that. Yeah yeah yeah I agree.

[01:11:15] I do want to get a tattoo. That's what it should be. You nailed it. I don't think it's gonna be wait but it could be a sandwich instead. Customize it. One or the other David. A sandwich tattoo would be good.

[01:11:28] Either a gun going into a gun going into a gun or a sandwich. I think those are your two options.

[01:11:33] What if it's like a long one where you have the two slices of bread on the side and then you can decide what ingredients you want to put in there as the tattoo grows.

[01:11:40] Oh I can right I can kind of make it into a club sandwich I can kind of keep stacking. Wait I'm into this.

[01:11:48] I like the idea of you having like you setting up a sleeve a long term tat project that just starts with one slice of bread and then over your life you build a Dagwood sandwich. You know running up to your bicep.

[01:12:04] I'll invoke her again Fran friend of the show Fran Hofner. Blockbuster Fran. Blockbuster Fran she's got these tattoos of fruit and she started out yeah with just a couple and now she's got so many fruits and I think that's really cool. And I love her her fruits.

[01:12:19] It's a really cute sleeve. So okay should we talk about the swimming pool prison cunnilingus like what else should we talk about here. It's that actresses that woman who gets assaulted as her feature debut. That I'm done. She's great.

[01:12:36] I feel like you really want to talk about the prison cunnilingus. You've dropped that exact term. I just keep thinking about it and I kind of do like the term I guess but no no no. I there was something about he wanted he.

[01:12:49] So Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance and Old Boy both got like 18 ratings in Korea right unsurprisingly. They're very intense films. For some reason Park thought maybe he could get the less restrictive rating. I think it's a 15 sort of similar to the British ratings for this one.

[01:13:08] I guess because this movie is less violent I guess although it's still kind of violent. It doesn't have like a hammer attack sequence maybe. I mean the child endangerment feels like worse. Like when you watch the movie. Exactly. Then you have all that right.

[01:13:29] But I guess anyway he said he wanted it to seem by an audience 15 years older. It got the highest rating and he thought it was because of the oral sex scene. But apparently the Korean I'm sorry the what. I'm sorry the what's in prison cunnilingus. Thank you.

[01:13:48] But apparently the Korean Film Commission just did not like that there was a portrayal of violence inside the jail system at all. This is I'm quoting from director Park here but they would have preferred to see the positive side.

[01:14:01] The inmates getting well adjusted in order to go back into society. We Wow. You know I didn't. He says I didn't put all this in to be critical of the jail system. I don't think it's that big a deal.

[01:14:14] That's why I let my then 12 year old daughter watch it three times. No. Cut it out. Every time with these dossiers I'm like but you didn't let your daughter watch this one. He's like well maybe you need to find a new way to connect to your daughter.

[01:14:33] Maybe like go fucking rock climbing or watch real housewives. He needs to watch Pirates of the Caribbean. Yeah that's what he's exactly. He probably just go with her. It's fine. I wonder just climb over the black girl. He's like they really those guys were cursed. They were cursed.

[01:14:52] They're all skeletons. He don't hear. I'm not taking that gold. How great would it be if they announced like tomorrow Disney hires Park Chan will be in six seven. And he's just like I really want to make a movie that my daughter likes. I finally figured it out.

[01:15:08] Really. The whole gang is back. Will I need to be approved. Tim and Shake is playing Jack Sparrow. Yeah. A lot of bootstrap Bill. Bring back bootstrap. But what happened to him. He died. Yeah. He perished. He did. He was on the end. It ended in number three.

[01:15:30] But doesn't he come back. Wasn't wasn't someone there kid. Yeah yeah yeah. Orlando Bloom is his son. No but I'm saying wasn't Elizabeth Swan and Will Turner's kid one of the boring boys and one of the later sequels. Yes. Brandon Thwaites. Was he. Yeah. I think so.

[01:15:50] And then also Barbosa's daughter which made me cry. So that that that's the twist in in Dead Men Tell No Tales that. Yeah. That was Kayla. Kayla Scully. Girl. But that was that one.

[01:16:03] Was that when Brennan Thwaites because the other one was Sam Clafton and a mermaid right. That one is that one. Yes. OK. Karen you and I saw that film together. We saw Pirates of the Caribbean Salazar's Revenge. Sure. Fuck. Salazar's Revenge. I cried. I hated myself for crying.

[01:16:23] Yes. You were in tears. When he falls off the cliff. I was like. Fucking Jeffrey Rush fell off the big chain or whatever the hell happened to that goddamn movie that should have been sunk to the bottom of Davy Jones locker. You were correct. Yeah.

[01:16:42] Now that you bring it up it has been a while since we've heard from Salazar. I feel like I haven't seen him in anything in years. I've heard he's he's making phone calls and he's planning to enter the Republican primary in 2024.

[01:16:54] And his entire campaign is just Ola, Jack Sparrow and people are trying to talk him out of it. They're trying to. Pretty good. Salazar people want to hear about health care. Jack Sparrow. Jack Sparrow. Yeah. Better platform than most of them. You're not wrong. That's true.

[01:17:14] I'm with Salazar. They've backed themselves in this corner where they're like fucked if they do bring back Jack Sparrow. They're fucked if they don't. Right. Like they got this like they're in a perfect conundrum. They were trying to do it with Margot Robbie or whatever. Yes.

[01:17:28] But it's like. Yeah, they were thinking about that. A portion of the population is furious if you don't bring Depp back and the other half is furious if you do. It's really a lose lose. Yeah. Yes. So what if they just announced tomorrow like we've heard your cries.

[01:17:39] We are in fact making the next Salazar film. We're continuing on. Yeah. I mean, I think we're going to have to wait for the next film. Oh no, that would still have Jack Sparrow. Yeah. All right. I'm looking him up on the Pirates Wiki. You're looking at Salazar.

[01:17:59] Oh my God. Because I cannot remember. All right. Look, he died apparently. His last words, Jack. This guy was so one track. David, when you say these characters have died, aren't all of them undead to begin with? Isn't that one of the defining things? That's a fair point.

[01:18:15] I mean, there's some deflating details about Salazar with the rock jungle cruise mythos at this point. Oh yeah. He's also immortal or whatever. That was the one of the guys turns into a bunch of bees, which was pretty good. That guy had some good points, though.

[01:18:29] I really thought he had some interesting things to say. That is one of those movies. The reveal is that the rock was one of them, that he was a conquistador, but all of them have accents and he inexplicably doesn't. Yeah. Also, all of them have accents. Yeah.

[01:18:42] Master of disguise. Yes. All of them have a gimmick, too. Yeah. What the fuck? Salazar looks like a fucked up Shrek, like a Shrek crossed with Edward Scissorhands. Yeah. Excuse me. As we all know, Salazar looks like Drake in that 7-Up or was it Sprite commercial?

[01:19:00] Was it 7-Up or Sprite? Or it's like the Backstreet Boys music video where they're all in Halloween costumes. Maybe the funniest thing I ever said on the podcast. Yeah. Salazar looks like a fucking Shrek. That's the funniest thing I ever said on the podcast. Yeah, yeah.

[01:19:13] Salazar looks like all five Backstreet Boys from the Larger in Life video mushed together. Yeah. That was intentional. Not to go back, but Salazar does feel like a Tim Robinson sketch where he shows up and Tim Robinson's like, so what's your deal? Figure out what you do! Yeah.

[01:19:27] He's like, Jack Sparrow. They're like, no, no, no. It can't just be that. He turns into a skeleton. I get it. This guy is a skeleton. He's like a squid head. I get it. What is your deal? What is your deal, Salazar? He's cracking. That's his deal.

[01:19:51] He's cracking. He's got the crack curse. He is cracking. It's true. But different from Kraken. Yes. Because they did that. He's not Kraken. That's true. I'm going to read a book. The Wager. I'm sure will be a film in five years. Yes.

[01:20:17] And it's about a big old boat that shipwrecked and there was a mutiny and there was all kinds of crazy stuff that happened. Just got my copy of Flower Moon, Killer Moon. I'm excited for that. Yes.

[01:20:29] But half the book is just him being like, so here's what it was like to be on a boat back then. Bad. Really bad. I'm not eating this shit up. I ate it up like. And Salazar's in there? Tune him out.

[01:20:45] And Salazar, of course, it turns out he did it. It's his fault. This carefully recorded work of nonfiction, chapter eight, is like, anyway, it turns out it was all Salazar. Unfortunately, Salazar did in fact get his revenge on all of us. Unfortunately, Salazar returned.

[01:21:04] And by extension, you the reader. He has foiled you yet again. Oh, man. No one ever talks to Salazar. Lady Vengeance. No relation to Salazar. No. So a thing we have not really talked about is that while we're learning about the past

[01:21:26] and we're seeing our protagonist in the present, she visits her daughter, Jenny, who is now, you know, whatever, a kid. I mean, she's not a teenager even really. Has it been 13 years? Yeah, she's like 13. There's some amount of time. She's maybe 13.

[01:21:43] And she is essentially Australian because she was adopted. Is she going to Australia? That was the one thing. What's the deal there? Yeah, she goes to Australia to visit her. Right. But then she just sort of collects her and brings her back to Korea.

[01:21:58] Jenny threatens to kill herself if she won't let her come with her. Yeah. And so you have this sort of strange burgeoning relationship with Jenny, which I think, again, this is sort of before the big hammer blow of the final reveal.

[01:22:17] Maybe you're sort of like, well, maybe this is the person that will bring her back from whatever world she's in. Right. You know, maybe this is the sort of surprise element of this plot that will change her perspective. But that's not exactly how it works.

[01:22:33] Jenny is sort of crucial to her, you know, like this aspect of her humanity that is mostly lost. Right. But like. That's what I was going to say. I view her inclusion more as like there has to be some glimmer of light in this film.

[01:22:50] A, you're about to find out such horribly monstrous things that have happened to other children. But B, you want like he does want you to have some sympathy for Lady Vengeance and he wants you to believe there's something in there worth surviving. I'm not even saying saving. Right.

[01:23:08] Like there's a reason for her to even stay alive post vengeance. If she just feels like she's a vengeance golem. And once this mission is complete that she's like done.

[01:23:19] It's also it's like the fuller idea of revenge where the idea of revenge is like what do I have to do to set things right to equal the scales again.

[01:23:29] And it's not only I have to take care of this guy, but there's also this other part where I owe somebody as well, which is my daughter. Yeah. And I think I think also like you have. Oh boy. Not a great father daughter movie. Right.

[01:23:48] No. And then Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance has them kidnapping the kid, him tricking his sister into thinking that it's a babysitting assignment. She commits suicide. The kid dies by accident.

[01:24:02] All this sort of stuff in the same way that he's challenging himself to like let me try to make one with a proper female protagonist who has narrative agency. It's also like let me maybe make one where the child parent relationship isn't the most fucked up aspect

[01:24:18] of the film. Let me try to make one where a kid survives and seems like they're maybe going to be somewhat OK. You know, it also presents I think a certain amount of stakes. Right. Where it's like she if without Jenny she doesn't really have anything to lose.

[01:24:31] Right. Right. Otherwise she's just gone. She's she's beyond. I mean it's a movie I love dearly that I have never seen before. I've invoked now maybe in all of these vengeance episodes. But you're never really here which is like

[01:24:47] similarly a movie about someone who's given himself over to this thing so fully that they're just like dead inside just like completely destroyed. And similarly like when he finds this girl and forms

[01:24:57] this relationship with her for the first time there is like a thing that he actually feels he is responsible for that makes him want to stick around to some degree.

[01:25:08] Yeah. It also it just makes the ending so I'm saying it's also so many times but really I'm just piggybacking off your point it makes the ending so much sadder where it's like this thing that you have been

[01:25:19] fantasizing about for 13 years you've completed it now but has it really fixed anything do you actually feel better like your life is still not in the shape that you necessarily want it to be in.

[01:25:29] You have to atone to this child for what has what her life has been because of these things that happened to you and that you were sort of complicit in. Yeah very well said. Those poor Australians. They don't know anything about what's going on.

[01:25:45] No they seem like they don't ask enough questions. No they definitely didn't Google also. No. Maybe maybe they could have just done some good like Googling. This is like light like Googling. Big ass news story. Lost vibes though. You remember how in Lost everyone was Australian.

[01:26:06] The mechanics of well the flight left from Sydney so everyone had to have been in Sydney for some reason. Yes. And so they would do the flashbacks where Sawyer's like I found the man I need to kill.

[01:26:18] He's he's Australian. I miss Sawyer. I miss Sawyer too. What's he up to? I guess he's on some other TV show. Oh Josh Holloway. Yeah he's around. Yeah. Oh you mean Sawyer the character. What is he. Yeah. David was a character doing.

[01:26:34] I guess he's he's in that church they all ended up. Yeah yeah I guess they all died. Yeah. Who knows. Wow actually. Yeah. He you know. Oh he did.

[01:26:45] Oh he had a recurring role on Yellowstone. I was about to say like for him feels like he should do some Yellowstone. The look and he's the age range. You know what I mean.

[01:26:57] Like no one on Yellowstone is young. You know it's it's like it's the Wes Bentley Josh Lucas. Did they make him cut his hair for Yellowstone? Is it short or is it still like Sawyer long for Yellowstone?

[01:27:07] Longer. It's down to his ankles. Oh wow. Let's see. No let's see his hair. Yeah it's long. It's long. It's Sawyer length. Yeah. What year is the Yellowstone with Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren. 1923 1880. No you're right it's 1923 1883 is the other one with Sam Elliot.

[01:27:31] OK. And Tim McGraw. I was I was. God what a world. Incredible. I was doing my my very exciting part time job where I go over to my grandmother's apartment and fix all her devices in exchange for Bobca. And Bobca bad.

[01:27:49] She wanted she wanted to scale the mountain. She wanted to know if there was a way I could get her on Paramount Plus specifically because she wanted to watch that series. And so I got it queued up and I put it on her iPad

[01:28:00] and started playing and she looked at me and she was like this isn't Yellowstone. Whatever year it was right. She was like this is an 1893 or whatever whichever year. I was like it is and she's like absolutely not. This is something else. This is something else playing.

[01:28:11] And I was like it's a guy in the middle of the woods getting shot at by like a musket. What makes you think this couldn't be Yellowstone. Oh that's happening now. They're always up to something. She wouldn't believe me until Helen Mirren showed up.

[01:28:26] Wow. Grandma's a real pip. Yes she is. Has she seen this movie. I know that's a great movie. I know that's a good question. She does like Park Chan-wook. She was very surprised to hear we were covering him.

[01:28:40] She still thinks this is a show where we interview directors. Oh OK. Well look it's never too late to turn over a new leaf. Yeah. Pivot to that. I explained it to her a number of times.

[01:28:51] Is this my favorite of his. This is my favorite of the Vengeance. Oh you were you were questioning if it's your favorite of his movies period. It's up there. I'm a big thirst boy. I'm thirsty. Also so nice to see Song Kang-ho in this movie also.

[01:29:05] Yeah he pops up. I really just I assume kind of as a favor right. Like I assume that's just him being fun. I guess. I mean that's why I wanted to bring up the scene Griffin when you

[01:29:16] were talking about the daughter too where it's like that's why this moment has agency where you think it's it's possible that she loses her daughter and the fact that she the point of like her remembering what the range

[01:29:29] on this gun is is so good. It's so good. Yeah it's very cool. The other assassin is also from JSA right. Shin Hak-yeon. Yeah both of them have been in his movies before. Yeah I've been in multiple movies. Yes he's all sees the he's the lead

[01:29:46] of sympathy for it's sort of the lead. He's the deaf guy. It's something who's showing up in this like the equivalent of fucking Ryan Reynolds showing up in everything like for us it's fun but if you're

[01:29:56] seeing this in South Korea in 2005 you're like I think he was still pretty beloved. Like I don't think he has ever crossed the Rubicon in that way. Yeah it feels like a fun wink for the audience and it helps that he's not

[01:30:13] waiting for sure. No no they show up there scary assassins and she fucking takes them out. Yeah. Are you playing that sometimes when Ryan Reynolds shows up for an untold purpose. Sometimes when Ryan Reynolds shows up for an under five or even a non-speaking

[01:30:28] role in a big budget film starring one of his friends that he is perhaps winking to the audience and in fact takes you out of the movie by his presence. I would never dare say no because what if you want to work with

[01:30:42] Mr. Reynolds. You know he's so funny. Some of the aviation Jambi a member is oh yeah and he's got gin out the wazoo and like a phone company right. I am in mobile soccer team. But then they sold mobile didn't he sell

[01:30:59] mobile to a different probably sold it for so much money. Whatever he's a smart businessman. His whole fucking thing was like don't sign up with one of those big phone carriers like Sprint sign up for mobile. And then like two

[01:31:12] months ago he was like exciting news Sprint is buying mint. Look I've been with Sprint for a generation. I love Sprint. I hope you enjoy all your new cousins from the mobile side of the family. Yeah. Minty phone. Oh we should also shout out the UG take cameo.

[01:31:30] The guy from old boys and this as well. He is grown up one though. And so is that. So is Mito from old boy. She's in here for five seconds also. Really. Who is she. She's like a TV announcer. Blink and you miss it.

[01:31:45] Right. Right. Right. Right. So OK. Again it's sort of hard to go through the narrative this way because it is out of order. But OK. Yes we learn more and more about Mr. Bake. That's how you say his name. Karen. It's probably

[01:32:02] like Peck. I guess. Beck Peck who is a children's teacher at a preschool essentially. That's that's what he's doing now. And he's a teacher at a preschool. He's probably planning once again to do something terrible.

[01:32:21] He hires these thugs to kill him. But they she kills them back and then she kills him. I got him. She kills him right back. And then that's when she fucking nails his feet to the floor. Right. I mean that's what she's

[01:32:36] got him. And then and then that's when she figures it out. Yeah. I mean that's the wildest reveal of what she has asked her prison friends to do is to get someone to go be his wife. Bad assignment. Yeah. Is it the

[01:32:50] friend that gets the kidney transplant. Is it that friend. No it's a different different friend. The knee transplant or the kidney transplant is the girl who helps her make the gun. Her husband makes helps make a for. Yeah.

[01:33:05] I wouldn't want a knee transplant. That sounds horrible. So she finds this orange marble right. This sort of trophy collects these trophies and even in the black and white version the trophies retain their color throughout which is this very clever very powerful effect. And she finds

[01:33:22] all these horrible tapes he made and it's so bad. And I kind of had to fast forward and zone out for a while. Horrible. Yeah. Yeah. And Park even I think admits like it's a little like he was he says there's stuff

[01:33:35] he took out. It was really like a frame by frame of like how much can I put in this movie without completely losing the audience. Yeah. These very because he's like obviously you need to you know convince the viewer

[01:33:49] of this man's like pure villainy and these like the horrible thing that he did. But it's it's it's impossible to watch. Yeah. Even by his standards I think. Yes. I tried to avoid dwelling on the distress of the children

[01:34:04] he said. Anyway so he's but he's very yes he's very bad. Yes go ahead Griffin. No I was just going to say I mean it's I think he shows you the exact amount of it he needs to. Yeah. Like I don't think he dwells on it

[01:34:22] doesn't feel much but as we're saying like right. You do need to. Yeah you do need to feel it viscerally. And it's just it's compounded by the parents reactions. Yes. Yeah. It would be different if this movie was she

[01:34:37] chops his head off because he's a bad guy. But because the the final act of this film is 40 whole minutes. Yeah. Of the parents reacting of the debate over what to do over them killing him and then the sort of like

[01:34:51] coda of them all together. You know like it's you know yes yes it's sort of it's more it's more essential. It needs to feel immediate for the audience. Right. You need to have lived through it in some way. It's

[01:35:06] really breathtaking. Like there's no way to prepare for that kind of widening of scope as soon as you see the other charms that are on his phone. Like that's the horrible detail right where he's kept these

[01:35:17] souvenirs from all of these kids on his cell phone. Like it's so brazen and so horrible. And as soon as you realize that and as soon as these other people's revenge are brought into the equation it kind of blows the

[01:35:30] movie open. Yes. It makes it into the masterpiece it is. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a very interesting elliptical strange movie before then and then you're just kind of like holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a very interesting movie. Yeah. Yeah. I have to say something unrelated to this

[01:35:50] right. Do it. Is it about sounds like so sorry. No thank God. Not that. Not him. No no no. I could not take that. You know we have been Ben has his nicknames on this show. We talked about it on the opening episode of

[01:36:07] this miniseries and for for the George Miller series we called him Haas pig in the city or something like that. Right. Normal. Someone just pointed out I just saw this or Haas pig is the kitty was the other one but go on.

[01:36:24] No no no. This is it. Ben pig is his kitty. Oh yeah. I like Haas pig in the city better. But but pig is his kitty. You don't understand Karen. His cat is literally called pig. Yeah. Wait is that true. Yes. Yes. That's the joke.

[01:36:42] No Ben pig is his kitty. OK then fine. That's what it is. All right. We'll adjust back to this horrible chisel it in stone. Yeah. Back to the gathering of the parents and relatives of the missing children who watch

[01:36:57] tapes of screaming children and decide to murder him together. No. The broadening of scope you're saying Karen that is the thing that's so surprising about it since we've been like on such a single minded quest from

[01:37:10] one person to then make it so immediate to so many characters who you're being introduced to this late in the film where the stakes are this high. Right. We don't know these people right now. Brand new to the film. Yeah. No but it's

[01:37:26] like if you introduce us to characters under these circumstances we're immediately going to feel for all of these people. Yes. But it's still pretty bold to bring in an entire ensemble like a whole new cast. Right. The last

[01:37:41] act of this movie becomes like women talking suddenly. It is useful that each of these family members has a very distinct personality like he he's immediately dialed in on who every single one of these people are. Yeah.

[01:37:54] Are these actors well known in any way like are these or is it just sort of you know the usual kind of you know definitely not to the point actors definitely not to the point of like Song Kang Ho popping up like some of them

[01:38:09] you'll have seen a lot like one of the women for instance is like one of the old ladies in Train to Busan if you remember there's like a pair of sisters who are old ladies. So some of these are like pretty well known kind of more

[01:38:19] character actors some of them are a little lesser known but none of them are like Oh holy shit like that person's right maybe I would say it's not like we're bringing in you know 12 angry men we're bringing in just heavy hitters

[01:38:32] just you know so you can keep these people you know whatever they make an immediate impact but but they are all yeah they are all like you say Karen distinct if you're watching K dramas you'll probably seen it before.

[01:38:45] Yeah well sure look I'm trying to fucking complete Zelda Evil 4 got two jobs like a witch put it on while you're while you're watching. I don't know if I could delve into an entire country's television culture on

[01:39:01] top of everything else. I'll try legally now you have to watch all of Tejonggum very fine. I will fine. I'll do it. It's okay. I haven't watched it either but I know my I think my mom really liked it anyway. Well I've met your

[01:39:13] mother a lovely woman. Yes she's hung out your mom. How'd you guys meet. Talk about K dramas. I met at this I met her at this event that Karen Han was doing. Be weird if it's like around.

[01:39:33] We took a swim class together. I don't know. Yeah. A meeting. Yeah. It's good some water aerobics. Yeah. No cool lady. Yeah. Is there anything else we should touch on. There's a lot in this movie. Yeah.

[01:39:58] We should touch briefly on that the post murder stuff. But yes is there anything else about the group murder. There is. It is like it's comical at moments in that kind of way that he can bring off where you you do see the

[01:40:15] very sort of very dark horrible humor in these little moments like the surrealness that you're talking about I think like in the whole discussion of where they're like do we kill him all together or separately then how are we

[01:40:28] going to divide the absurdity go in and then who's going to go first let's draw numbers and the fact that that's all being piped into the room that he's sitting in so he can hear them talking about it. It's incredible. But like

[01:40:41] it's like their their mission is so pure you're like yes absolutely. Yeah. Your vengeance. But then it does take them just sort of talking down and be like OK so I'll chop him a bit and then you won't chop too much. And even

[01:40:52] chopping the second to last group going in where she's like Dad like you have to be careful because there's a person after us. Yeah. You have to leave something for them. Yeah. For how many like we were talking about like big

[01:41:02] scenes he leaves out or only shows you a fragment of that's the exact kind of scene most filmmakers would skip right. Like they make the decision and then the next thing you see is someone walking in with an axe or whatever. And

[01:41:14] instead it's like it speaks so much to his priorities that it's like well so wait wait how do we establish a pecking order here. And even the fact that Kunja is not the person who gets to kill him like when she finally uses her

[01:41:25] gun on him he's already dead. Like she effectively gives over her claim on this vengeance in a certain way to these other people who are kind of more directly affected by the stuff that he did and indirectly affected by what she

[01:41:40] kind of failed to do by going to prison for him. Yeah absolutely right. Also the scene or the bit where the police detective is there and he's like don't stab him like this because then your hand might cut him like instead you

[01:41:53] should hold a knife like this or stab him like this. So the details are so good. He's fucking helping out. Yeah. I love that he's on board too that he's like you're right this is the best way to go about it. I'm not going to help

[01:42:06] you. It's probably like a splinter in his mind too. He's like I knew something was wrong to begin with when I was putting this woman in jail and I didn't do anything about it or I couldn't do anything about it. Yeah. So

[01:42:17] they take a group photo for the memories obviously so that they cannot implicate each other. They bury the corpse. They gather at the bakery and have this sort of like funereal meeting especially in the black and white

[01:42:32] version. It really does feel like the fucking end of Schindler's List or whatever like they're gathered to light a candle. You know what I mean. Like it's this like very mournful moment. And then there's this like a funeral

[01:42:45] meeting with the murdered child who then grows to you know the age she would be if he lived. Right. Like this this very moving moment. I don't know like the first time I saw this movie my frickin jaw was on the floor and all

[01:43:00] this stuff I remember. Yeah. It's it's it's an incredible ending and it's weirdly the only one of this trilogy that I've seen that's really that has an ending that you could even vaguely classify as sort of a hopeful

[01:43:14] yeah uplifting it just at least feels like there's some sense of inner peace perhaps. And even that's generous because like the scene that can just shares with the adult one. It is not as though he's forgiving her. Yes I

[01:43:29] guess inner peace only in relation to the other two. I mean I think it's interesting because I think it's interesting because I think it's interesting because I think it's interesting because I think it's interesting to me that there's inner peace only in relation to the other two movies

[01:43:45] where everyone's dead and everyone is sort of destroyed internally or the second one in which a guy basically chooses like I'm just going to keep on doing a fucking horrible thing and try to make myself forget it. Yeah.

[01:43:59] But she does have Jenny and she does tell her to live purely like tofu Jenny is there as this yes somewhat hopeful character in a way right. And the reveal that she's been the narrator this whole time. Right. Yes.

[01:44:13] And she's sort of untouched by all these horrible things that have happened almost shockingly in a way like that that she did just get given up for adoption that this guy did actually not kill her. Right. Like you think

[01:44:26] think it through like but I guess it's because the public nature of everything. Also a brief sidebar the way that Puck uses subtitles in the discussions between Kunda and Jenny is so interesting like when you watch the Korean dialogue pop up on screen as Jenny speaking in English

[01:44:45] it populates in I guess English word order and leave spaces in the middle for where because Korean grammar is so different like it does that and then even the scene where they're going like no yes no yes like you're not

[01:45:00] you're not like you can't you I can you can you can't like you see just the one word kind of blinking in and out because they're saying sort of like at least some of that vocabulary is repeated it's it's just really it's

[01:45:14] like it's not super pivotal to what's going on but it's a very interesting detail in the movie. It is. It's I was wondering about that because they even just look at it it just presents itself differently than yeah

[01:45:25] for a Western movie the way it kind of comes out. Yeah yeah. And even because of the language here between her and Jenny there's the interesting sort of thing they do with the sentences getting repeated back and forth in English and Korean with Peck as the translator. Yeah.

[01:45:48] This film was a huge hit which is somewhat surprising but I guess at this point because Sympathy for Miss Vengeance did not do very well but I guess at this point old boy is such a smash that his name alone is sort of

[01:46:05] enough to carry anything right. It's just a guy who joined security area was a gigantic hit obviously. Yeah. Also again she's incredibly famous and she's very famous. This is it made twenty three million dollars at the

[01:46:18] Korean box office which is close to what JSA made and it's just true blockbuster status. And then of course Charlie's Theron was going to do a remake right. I forgot about that. I feel like I've still heard recently

[01:46:31] that talks are like still sort of happening about it and I really hope that doesn't happen. I do not. I cannot imagine a world where a American adaptation of this movie is necessary or would be very good.

[01:46:46] Obviously you know you never know but it just does not feel doable by Hollywood. Like so many details of the ending like you can you can already sort of guess like what a Hollywood adaptation of this would do differently

[01:47:03] not to say that this is what the adaptation would do but like oh like she'll get the final blow on the guy like they'll like figure everything out and everything will be happy. There's so many sad half choices made in this

[01:47:15] version of the movie like not clear resolutions that it feels like Hollywood execs would be like no we can't have that. You can't do that. Right. This film is unsatisfying like yes it should like right. It is very

[01:47:28] it is very difficult to walk out of this being like fuck yeah lady vengeance got hers. And also the fact that the fact alone I love Charlize Theron but I don't think she's the right choice for this. Like again it's sort of

[01:47:42] the same as the anecdote I was telling at the beginning where like coming out with it on this with a strong lead strong read and her being like I'm a badass and I'm strong is like it takes away from that character so much.

[01:47:53] The American like version of this that shouldn't exist should be like Rooney Mara or someone like that's who right. Someone delicate or yeah. Yeah. I mean I'll say no I'm not saying that's the right person. I say like

[01:48:07] don't pick someone who is a proven action star. Don't pick someone who is a bad I will say this was 2009 and obviously it's obvious that Charlize sort of hit on a sort of new persona for herself. Yeah. In the 2010s right.

[01:48:25] And this is probably one of the many projects she was looking at where she was like you know what can be my what eventually is like my Matt Maxfier erode or whatever you know like this in 2009 when she's lost like she's

[01:48:37] like Charlize Theron in like fucking she's in the burning plane and the road and so again I have heard stuff about this more recently. Right. It's still bubbling around although I don't know that doesn't seem to be much

[01:48:51] with Danny Boyle said he was approached to do it and was right. That's why it came up somewhat recently. Right. He was talking about that in interviews. Right. But he just seemed aware of like I don't know that you

[01:49:04] could do that like he's right. That was right. You know what would right. I feel like perhaps this is naivete on my part but like we talk about this in the old boy episode but how there was like such a quest to remake old boy

[01:49:19] for so long before they end up making this remake that no one gives a shit about the bombs really hard that even like Spike Lee semi disowns. It does feel like you don't hear in the same way when international movie

[01:49:32] hits big the immediate Hollywood feeding frenzy for remake rights. It does feel like there's a bit of like post parasite post squid game. Maybe people are not as put off by subtitles. Maybe these things do kind

[01:49:48] of crossover once they're on streaming services. Maybe we don't need to do the Americanized version of this thing unless there's like a very specific take. I hope so but we are getting the HBO Parasite series. So is that still how we're going to train to Pusan remake.

[01:50:05] Maybe but is that still happening. I don't think that's happening either. Right. All these ideas get floated and then no one fucking does it because they realize it's a bad idea. And even the parasite one it just every

[01:50:17] time I can't bring to New York he was sort of like I'm trying to come up with something different enough that justifies making a parasite TV show and I'm like well then maybe don't do it you know but he knew like I can't

[01:50:27] just remake the movie with an American family. Yeah. Yeah. That's not happening. No. I don't think that stuff is kind of ending. I don't know. Well who knows. I mean you never know. I think I'm going

[01:50:42] to remake Lady Vengeance though with Charlie's there and I'm going to direct it. Congrats. Thanks. Now Griffin for the box office game we have been doing the sort of limited releases of these films in America. Boring. Hunch you. Hunch you. But the wonderful wonderfully named Twitter user

[01:51:05] Golbat Asaurus. Uh huh. Shout out Golbat. A great Pokemon. Yeah. Has translated Korean box office data for me. Yeoman's work. He links me to the original site which is in the Korean language. But he has done the work of summarizing the opening weekends of all of these movies

[01:51:29] in Korea. So I think we should do that for the box office game. Sure. Yes. Let's do it. This. The one reason I think we should do it is mostly American movies. Good. Oh interesting. Let's also say we

[01:51:43] we've recorded this series very out of order because of guest events ability. So this is the episode when we have suddenly gotten access to well the Korean box office. But you might hear some of the future

[01:51:56] episodes. We don't have access to it. We will but we'll definitely do this for Handmaiden and Decisional Leave. Yeah. But we didn't do it for Thirst or Cyborg. Maybe we'll just do it later. I don't know.

[01:52:07] Who knows. I don't know. Catch up. But Lady Vengeance came out in Korea in July 2005. I think it came out in America maybe about a year later. But this was a summer 2005 film in Korea. OK. Yes. Because then it

[01:52:23] played Venice. It played the New York Film Festival and say blah blah. It opened number one. OK. Selling 1.1 million tickets. OK. I have ticket data for you here. I don't have financial data. I'll take it.

[01:52:36] I'll take it if you will. I'll take the ticket. Yeah. You'll take the ticket. Number two at the box office is an American 2005 sci fi blockbuster. It's an American 2005 sci fi blockbuster. We're looking at like a day and date release here. Was this also a big summer release

[01:52:58] or is this coming out later in Korea. Day and date. This is coming out maybe a week later in Korea. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what's coming out in Korea tops. This is a July 2005 war. The world's

[01:53:10] blockbuster movie. It's not War of the World. Sort of a flop. Kind of a flop. This film despite a big name director not a beloved director exactly but a big is that the island. It's Michael Bay's The Isle.

[01:53:26] Wow. Have you seen it Karen. No I know. I know of it. It's that you remember Scarlett Johansson. Correct. You're not wrong. I've not seen it and they live on. They live on an island that is sponsored by Dasani

[01:53:43] does not make you old. Their organs doesn't make you old. The island one day we'll do it on this podcast. Griffin do you agree. Yes I agree. I promise. What is all the promise. We swear for a baby in a series.

[01:53:55] Yeah yeah. Pain and gang guys call me. OK. You sure you don't want Transformers the last night. I'll think about it. You want to talk about it. It feels like a car. Cogman feels like a Karen's boy. Have

[01:54:13] you seen. Have you seen Transformers last night. Are you aware that the butler from Downton Abbey voices a robot butler called Cogman. I've been told about it. I'm aware of it. But you haven't met Cogman.

[01:54:24] No I have not. OK well he sings opera. Quite sure. Cool. He slaps his head with fish. Oh wow. Really. Number three at the box office. He does. Yes. No it's true. Is an animated film and song King Ho

[01:54:38] as I mentioned on a previous or maybe. Oh yeah. Voices the lead character of this film in Korea. In the Korean dub first Madagascar Madagascar. So it's being released about the lion. He's still Alex the lion. Yeah. Isn't that fun to think about. Yeah. Wait who else is

[01:55:00] in the Korean dub. I have. I don't know. I don't know but I can probably cast Madagascar international dubbing wiki. Yes. Lord knows there is an international dubbing wiki. Yeah. I mean good. Thank you for your thank you for your work. Like who's the Korean

[01:55:21] Bernie Mac. That's what I want to know. All right. So Bernie Mac's character is of course called. We pretty much on a Madagascar. Fuck he's in Madagascar too. This is terrible. But who's the Korean David Schwimmer. Great question. Answer of course is someone called

[01:55:39] Hong Jin Oog. OK. Not someone I know. Number four at the box office is a film that Griff you and I were recently talking about somewhat of a forgotten action programmer. Also day and date you know late July

[01:55:58] 2005. You and I were talking about three new stars three new stars. You and I were talking about it recently. Yes we were joking about the career of one of these stars with one of the most famous stars in

[01:56:14] the world. We were joking about the career of one of these stars with one of our famous friends. One of our famous friends was joking about the career of one of these. Wait you said it's an action programmer.

[01:56:29] It's an action film. It's got a little sci fi twist to it. It's got a little bit of a sci fi twist. July 2005. I feel like I have to watch the Korean dub of Madagascar now. You have stars right now immediately.

[01:56:42] OK. What distributor is this. It's from the good good people. It's Sony Pictures. That is Columbia. So many pick. It's a Columbia release 2005 sci fi three new stars. Are they coming from TV or are

[01:56:57] they really just fresh off the bus. Oh no their movies start. No no no they've been in stuff but I feel like it's sort of like why have one A-lister when you could have you know three B to C listers. One of them

[01:57:08] was definitely in his TV show. One of them had won an Oscar you know before. Oh it's still it's stealth it's stealth it's stealth it's stealth it's stealth film is Rob Cohen's stealth. The film is Rob Cohen's stealth.

[01:57:24] We were saying it's about time you and I watch stealth. It is a glare Josh Lucas Jessica Beale Jamie Fox right. And Jamie Fox stealth wins the Oscar after filming stealth but he dies first in the movie. But the

[01:57:43] market I believe is sort of put him front and center after he had become such a big star. Correct. Number five of the box office. It's another animated film we just talked about it on another fucking episode.

[01:57:57] Just talking about this movie. You talk about this movie. Robots robots. It's a good looking film. Karen have you seen robots. No I know the character designs. I have not watched the movie. Amazing designs terrible movie.

[01:58:14] That's not surprising to me. Yeah as William Joyce you could just tell they written by David Lindsay a bear David's hating that I'm talking about all this again. There must have been David Lindsay Bear just one attorney

[01:58:26] told there was something good in it at some point. That's a shame. That's like the worst. That's like the worst feeling when you're watching a movie like it's just like needle drop every 15 seconds. Every single speaking role

[01:58:40] is like inexplicably like why is it Jay Leno playing a fire hydrant for one line. It sucks. Look I want to tell you that the other films of the box office there are three other American films there's War of the Worlds as

[01:58:53] you guessed previously there's Boogie Man that was with obviously there's a new Boogie Man film right. It was with Barry Watson Barry Watson. There you go. Wasn't Tom Welling Tom Welling's in another one of them.

[01:59:06] He was in the fog remake. There you go. And and also Mr. and Mrs. Smith. But there are two Korean films. One is called Heaven's Soldiers appears to be a well initially appears you look at the poster and you're like

[01:59:24] oh this is a period action movie. There's a guy with a sword but then you look behind him and there's a guy in a in a World War Two soldiers outfit and you look behind him and there's a guy with like a military futuristic

[01:59:36] weapon. So I think it's like a time travel action movie. Sounds kind of cool. Cool. The other film Korean film is called Voice which is about a singer. It looks like a horror movie. The fourth installment in the whispering corridors

[01:59:58] supernatural film series about teenagers having spooky stuff happen to them. And it does. That's cool. It does star Kim Okbin who is in thirst. Oh later later. So that's cool. Very fun to do the Korean box office.

[02:00:20] You know the American box office is fine. But did we really need to talk about the debut of Runaway Vacation again Griffin. Did we. I mean baby six inch or whatever it is. Six inch summer. Karen I in my mind's eye

[02:00:35] I was so confident this was going to be your five timers club induction but this is only your fourth proper appearance on the podcast which is wild. They've basically all been paced exactly two years apart which isn't saying

[02:00:51] you need to wait two years until you come back on. But I feel like waiting. Come on. No one's waiting but our best are programming this show is hard. Our listeners will often find like oh what is the weird pattern to the movies

[02:01:05] we have. This guest always covers movies like this or whatever. And then someone like Esther will at a certain point be like I'm breaking the pattern. I don't want you to keep making me do movies like this. I want to do this.

[02:01:16] Your four films are pretty different. The Weight of Water. Yeah. Tim Burton Dumbo. Yeah. Escape from New York. Yeah. Lady Vengeance. That's this point. No idea. I mean you're calling pain and gain. But with last night as a as a spoiler I'm OK with that. Yeah.

[02:01:38] Is that the one that has Merlin also. Correct. Stanley Chiu Chi plays Merlin. But then but but Age of Extensions the one with the dinosaurs. Yes. OK. I knew one. Oh but this new one is not Michael Bay. No.

[02:01:54] This is the one is not my Cable Junior. This one has the Maximals. It has the beast animal rise of the beasts. Right. It doesn't have Dino bots. Oh that's a shame. Yes. Stanley Chiu Chi is in two separate

[02:02:11] Transformers movies as different characters. The first time he plays a silly guy with glasses. He just liked it so much. Loved it. The second time he plays Merlin. I think there is something fun about making those Michael Bay movies. You have the right attitude. Right.

[02:02:26] It's crazy to see doing that. Yeah. There's that thing of just like people identifying like oh Michael Bay clearly loves Coen Brothers movies because he just grabs all of their fucking supporting players. Yeah. And puts them in these functionary roles. But I think

[02:02:42] I would do if I had the power to do it. Absolutely. They all seem to have a good time. Oh I'm sorry. My cat just she's the most attention by putting her nail into my side. She really scared the shit out of me.

[02:02:57] Cats are so insane. I'm going to say that is the signal for us to wrap this up. Ben Pig is the kitty. It is 11 20 p.m. Is there anything you want to plug. Well you guys mentioned my book. It is out now. So if you

[02:03:11] are interested in it you can go get it. It is out in in anywhere you can get books. Probably we have a copy in cinema. Yeah. Proudly on display at the blank check. And it has an introduction right from

[02:03:26] friend of the show. Sweet sweet kind kind kind to David Lowery a very lovely man. I love him. I love him. I love him. I love him. I love him. Introduction and interviews with told a Swinton to shake a bunch of other

[02:03:41] people. Their stuff is really cool. You don't even have to read what I wrote. Just read what the cool things they have to say about working with Bong. Cool. Absolutely. Thank you guys for having me on. I mean I hope

[02:03:55] it's not two years again before I see you but no I'm saying let's break the pattern. If anything there's no pattern. If anything I don't do anything. Guess we got to do Michael Bay next. Guess guess Michael Bay's

[02:04:08] top of the pile now. I mean I do want to I kind of do want to do it but I don't know. I feel like I'll see he needs to. What's his last movie. Oh ambulance. I feel like what you love. And you. Yeah. Los Angeles.

[02:04:19] Let's let's sit on the. Let's sit on the dock at the bay. Oh it's kind of a lot of movies at this point. Yeah. All the more reason to come sooner rather than later. He does have a lot. It's true. He does have a lot.

[02:04:34] And this is a promise to you. We'll get to Michael Bay eventually. Well you don't have to promise me that. No I'm promising you that you'll come on the show again soon. Yeah. You're the best. I hope I see

[02:04:47] you sooner than that. Yes. Oh yeah. Thank you for being here and thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media and helping to produce the show. Marie is also the best. Lee Montgomery. Great American novel

[02:05:03] for a theme song. He is also the best. Joe Bowen and Pat Rounds for artwork. They are also the best. AJ McKee and Alex Baron for editing. They're also the best. I'm just too deep in on this now. If I leave

[02:05:15] anyone off I think I feel like they suck. Did I mention everybody. JJ Burch for research who is also the best. But don't get cocky about it JJ. Don't let this go to your head. You can go to blank check pod

[02:05:27] dot com for links to some real nerdy shit including our Patreon blank check special features where we do franchise commentaries as we said we're swimming across some oceans right now. Some heist capers and we're doing a little drummer girl over there as well. Yeah which I'm

[02:05:46] excited to talk about. Tune in next week for next week's episode of Dead Reckoning. And then next week of course on this podcast we will be discussing the film Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning. Oh my God. Right.

[02:06:02] So we got a two week break from director Park as we cover two new releases on the docket. Mission Impossible opening week already. I've already have plans to see it twice in the span of one week. Dead Reckoning Part One and then the following week will be Oppenheimer

[02:06:16] and then we're back to Thirst. Correct. Or no. I'm a cyborg and then Thirst. Yes. And then Stoker and then The Handmaid and then Decisional Leave and then oh I almost said the next miniseries. You tried to get me

[02:06:29] but I didn't do it. Yeah. You don't want a little punch drunk. Yes. Oh I wake up at six today but I woke I went to the beach so I'm all sun kissed as well. I'm all like God this is this time of year where David

[02:06:47] just complains all the time about how much he goes to the beach life is getting to him. It's Juneteenth. The day off. It's also true the last time I one of the last times I saw you was during the summer. I visited during

[02:07:00] the summer and you were like yeah I just came from the beach. Crazy. Yeah. This is basically David's version of the guy who just constantly apologizes that he's still on island time. David takes his day trips to

[02:07:10] the beach and goes Hey I'm sorry. Just a little burned out from the beach. Yeah. All right. Now I got to go to sleep. It's a beautiful life. So does everyone recording so late. Oh of course. Of course. And joy to do

[02:07:25] it Karen. And as always it was a joy. Thank you so much for having me on. Yes it was. And as always I offer a very sincere apology to our listeners and to David for getting his hopes up. Mint Mobile was in fact purchased

[02:07:37] by T-Mobile. David you will not be able to welcome them into your sprint family. Well unfortunately they also own Sprint so basically.