Terms of Endearment with Valorie Curry

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to express All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Why should I be happy about being a podcast?

[00:00:24] I don't know what the word is there. Bad one. Okay, I'm gonna do a different one. That's not good. It's past 10. My daughter is in pain. I don't understand why she has to have this pain. All she has to do is hold out until 10 and it's past 10.

[00:00:35] My daughter is in pain. Can't you understand that? Give my daughter the podcast! Yeah, that's good. There we go. Yeah. He leaned into that. He did. You can't say those lines and not lean into it because nobody's ever gonna lean into it half as much as she does.

[00:00:49] And I had something to prove too because I'd fucked up the first quote which we're keeping in Ben Keep-It-In. That's why I had no idea what was happening at all. This was all... You have never heard the podcast before? No, I have never heard the podcast. Get ready.

[00:01:00] It was a glorious surprise. Hello everybody, my name is Griffin Newman. I am David Sims. And this is a podcast that our guest has never listened to called... Like Jack. With Griffin and David. We're hashtag the two friends. Here are some lessons for you about.

[00:01:12] F.I.I. We are the two friends. We're the two friends because we are friends. There are two of us when we host a podcast together. Now what's interesting is that this is a competitive advantage. Okay. Podcasts still an emerging market. No one else has cracked this yet.

[00:01:26] Two friends. Two friends on a podcast together. He's going to do all his bits on you now. Because they're all new to you. I can see it and there's a lot of facial expression that's accompanying this that I'm not used to. The expression is pride. Sure.

[00:01:43] We're also connoisseurs of context. That's why I've got this computer here. He's got a computer, look stuff up. And this is a podcast about directors. Filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in the career and are given a series of blank checks. Underline bold italicized.

[00:01:59] To make whatever crazy passion products they want. Sometimes the check's clear. In this case, they did. Clearly crazy. And then sometimes four movies later they bounce maybe. Five, three, three. We can argue. Yeah, we can argue. Everyone agrees it bounces eventually. Different people pick different.

[00:02:17] The check bounces for the... I don't know. His check turns into Tigger. Yeah, his check. His check it's very bouncy. Yes. This of course the man we're talking about. Because cracking off a new miniseries. It's the films of James L. Brooks and some miniseries

[00:02:35] that I'm excited to announce is called... No, don't you do it. As pot as it casts. It's called High Cast News. That's what it's called. I don't know about that. And do you know what James L. Brooks' middle name is? It's the same as my middle name. L?

[00:02:47] Yeah. That's really L. Lawrence. Hey, I get some friend points for remembering. David L. Sim. Yeah. And we've talked about our past guest and future guest and friend Lux Alptrom. Sure. Coined the term the guarantor. Okay. Which is the movie, the success that gives the director

[00:03:07] the blank check going forward. Okay. And this is a weird case where it's the one. His debut film was the guarantor. Right. And also his years in television. Right. But he had to fight. He had to fight to get a movie made. I guess so, sure.

[00:03:21] And we'll discuss that. You know that? Yeah. But first let's introduce our guest who talked before we introduced her which is exactly what we like a guest to do on this show. She is an actress. Mm-hmm. She is the best fake sister in the business. Aw.

[00:03:37] Something my real sister gets very competitive about. You did meet briefly. Yes. And she was nice to you. Well... Ramon is very intimidating. She's very intimidating. Yeah, I mean Griffin sort of he set up an animosity really early on. I didn't say that she felt it immediately.

[00:03:57] I mean that has to be coming from you though. I think you're the one making her feel threatened. When my sister was very young, Valerie Curz our guest by the way from the following. Yeah. Oh yes. From The Tick. Yeah. Amazon Prime. Every 23rd. Season two.

[00:04:15] We'll be shooting at the time this comes out. 1B, February 23rd. This episode is coming out five years from now. Oh well I hope you liked it. I hope so too. That'd be great. That'd be awesome. But if not, doesn't matter. No. Season two coming no matter what.

[00:04:28] It's already done. You can't take it back for us. And I said that with a conference with someone who has never been on a TV show that was unrenewed. Right. That's the thing about you. Yeah.

[00:04:38] Where even when the official announcement came down like one of my friends is like oh Griffin must be happy to hear that. And I was like yes, but he was actually on a show that was announced to be renewed and then they took it back.

[00:04:49] Got you on pretty hard. Is that true? Yeah. That happened to vinyl. That happened like four times in TV history. Four times. They announced season two. They fired the show runners. Messy. I shouldn't laugh. Messy, right? Brought on a whole new team.

[00:05:04] Had them staff a whole new writers room. Started break in the season. We're writing scripts and then went never mind. Well, at least you're tanking the entire show and not just like your character. Yoy? Well, that's the thing. Season two was supposed to be me in the spotlight.

[00:05:17] Everyone knew Casper. Yeah, right. The A&R rep who had four lines across 10 episodes was clearly being primed for the spotlight season two. And I think that's what HBO they got scared because it was such a dramatic shift. Where is like a narcos type. Oh sure.

[00:05:32] And new protagonists. Whereas in the tick season two you're being heavily backgrounded. Yes. Right. Yes. Season two I have a cold. You're sure. For 10 second episodes and it's just dot and tick. Yeah, we cut to you in like a rocking chair with like a blanket over your legs.

[00:05:47] Like once in a while. Yeah. So this movie is insane. It's insane. Have we announced what the movie is? It's called Terms of Endearment. It was his first film. It's his first film and he won three Oscars for it. That's true.

[00:06:02] It was the second highest grossing film of its year behind Return of the Jedi. Right. That one was number one. Right. But so like for perspective, what if Lady Bird was the number two film of the year behind The Last Jedi? Right.

[00:06:16] That's exactly how you want to think about it. And everyone's like, yeah, two blockbusters. Yeah. You were two blockbusters. It was above Flashdance, Trading Places, War Games, Octopussy, The Bond Movie. Sudden impact. That's a dirty Harry movie, isn't it? Yeah. Right. Yeah that is. Yeah.

[00:06:35] Staying alive the sequel to Saturday Night Live. I don't know how to say that. It's both risky business, like vacation. Yeah. Like these are movies that are... It's like about like five of the biggest box office stars of all time. Scarface? Yeah. It just trounced these movies. Yeah.

[00:06:50] Ran laps. It did. Nothing came close. And this was in an era where very few movies made a hundred million dollars. Only two movies that year made a hundred million dollars. Return of the Jedi and Terms of Endearment.

[00:06:58] I'll be the token feminist note that points out how many of those other movies that you named feature female leads. Because that's one of the things that makes this really... Yeah, Flashdance. I think... We got a fucking Flashdance. You got that one. Point you.

[00:07:11] You give us Shirley McClane. We will come. That's the thing. I'm now going down being like what's the... So Flashdance number three, okay. I'm still going. We have been teaching. Gentle. Number 18. Gentle little Barbara. Unless Mr. Mom counts. I don't know where you are. No. No.

[00:07:31] I don't know. I've been teaching you guys forever. Yeah. Right. The market is eager. And this was over 30 years ago. This was like 35 years ago and still we're reticent to green light peace types of movies. Larry McMurray, the most sensitive... Mercury. I'm sorry.

[00:07:50] Larry McMurtry, the most sensitive of the cowboy novelists. Right. The poet of Texas. Right. Who has one of the best track records in terms of his work being adapted of any novelist after. He's written a ton of books. Yeah. So many books.

[00:08:05] You go HUD, Last Picture Show, Terms of Endearment. Lonesome Dove, which is a TV show but you know. And then the one time he decides to adapt someone else's work, it's Brokeback Mountain. Yeah. Have you ever seen him? Yeah. He's a gruff man.

[00:08:20] Yeah, but in a kind of adorable way, I want to hug him when I see him. But he also has the evening star. You can't discount that. We'll talk about the evening. In Texasville. Texas movies were given sequels, bizarre sequels. Yeah. That people don't remember exist. Exist. Yes.

[00:08:37] Anyway, we'll get to all of it. Anyway, Larry McMurtry, he wrote a novel, Terms of Endearment. Popular? I guess so. Yeah, I don't know anything about it. I don't think it was like... Have you read it? No. Yeah.

[00:08:48] I don't think it was like love story where everyone was like wait until they adapt this. I think it was like a respected novel. Sure. 1975. So yeah, it's been around. Here's the New York Times review of it. Very winning. Hey. All right. Farsical and realistic. Farsical? I guess.

[00:09:07] Okay, sure. I don't know. I'll give it to him. But there's a guy waiting in the wings. Old Canyon Jim himself. James Lawrence Brooks. Yes. Who has had this miracle run going from journalism working in broadcast news. Hint, hint, hint, wink, wink, wink. Sure. Right.

[00:09:29] To then moving into TV writing, comedy writing to then becoming a powerhouse showrunner and... Mary Tyler Moore. Right. One of the most... Taxi. Yes. But a huge... Rota. Yes. Lady things. Not that. Is it lady things? Yeah.

[00:09:48] No, but Mary Tyler Moore was like huge at its time for being like here is a single unmarried woman working in her forties. Yeah, career focus. What? Insane. How? They designated as science fiction at the time. Like she was very likable. Very likable.

[00:10:02] And compensate for those horrible qualities. And she was gonna make it after all. She was. Right. It's sort of like when they give a villain in a superhero movie one likable trait. It's like here's the most evil creature that's ever existed. Single unmarried woman.

[00:10:16] But also look at how she throws her hat in the air. Throws that hat? Yeah. He's itching to make pictures. He wants to make motion pictures. Like, yeah. Well, he produced and wrote Tuesdays Thursday's game. Not Tuesday's game. A movie. A secret movie that I love.

[00:10:32] It was a TV movie that was done for a bunch of years starring Gene Wilder and Bob Newhart. There's two guys who have a weekly poker game that they get pushed out of.

[00:10:41] And instead just decide to hang out every Thursday and essentially have like this is like your movie. It's lovely. They just have friend dates every Thursday. And their wives think that they're having affairs but really it's just like they're

[00:10:53] really stressed out sad men and they find one other person they can like relate to on a friend level. Chloris Leachman. Ellen Burstin. You're right. Those are the wives. Valerie Harper's in it. Yeah, it's got an insane cast. Rob Reiner. Rob Reiner. This was a TV movie?

[00:11:09] TV movie. What network was this? ABC. And you know those back in the days people watched TV. Yeah. And I think that was like a favor for James Albrooks giving them so many successes that they were like fine, make your little movie. He didn't get to direct it.

[00:11:22] No. Then he writes Starting Over. Oh, oh my God. I should have been. Yes. Starting in 1979. Right. And a Pakula movie. Which is a solid hit. With Jill Clayberg and Candice Bergen. Yes. Ladies. Ladies. He likes ladies. Sure. And Brassy Brods. Brooks's Brassy Brods. We call them Brooks's.

[00:11:45] We're letting that one drop like a phrase. Brassy Brods. Penn is shaking his head at Brooks's Brassy Brods. You want to introduce Ben for Valerie? Oh, yes. Ben, this is Valerie. Well we met because you were both late. Yes. Yes. We were both late. I was barely late.

[00:12:01] I want to point out. Okay. Wow. I'm not getting any help on that one. Yeah, you're too busy getting food. It was too busy getting food so I would not be an asshole on this recording. Okay. Right? You know what I'm like when I'm hungry?

[00:12:14] Hey, come to house. Let's, I've started something. This is getting way too political. I can't take it back. Okay, this is getting too political. Uh-huh. And we have to nip it in the butt, okay? Valerie, this is Ben. Hi. Hi.

[00:12:27] Aka producer Ben, Aka the Ben Deucer, Aka producer Ben, Aka the poet Laureate, Aka the hog. He's going to go on for a while. Aka Mr. Positive, Aka Mr. Positive. He's doing it off the dome. Aka the tiebreaker, Aka the peeper, Aka hello fennel, Aka the meat lover.

[00:12:39] No ginger jokes. No ginger names. He's got the... Soak and wet Benny, Red Hot Benny. Red Hot Benny. Dirt bike Benny. That's a ginger name. It's our finest film critic. He's a close personal friend of Dan Lewis. That is true.

[00:12:50] Why do we have to certain titles over the course of different miniseries such as Kylo, Ben, producer Ben Kenobi, Ben Nite, Shyamalan, Ben Sate, say Ben anything dot dot dot, Ailey Ben's with a dollar sign, Warhaz. Perdue or Bane. Perdue or Bane, Ben 19, the fennel maker. And RoboHaz.

[00:13:06] There you go. I thought I knew you. Now you know how you do. That's why I wanted to do the introduction. Now you really do. I keep jumping the gun. Now we've done all the dumb shit we have to do. Dumb shit out of the way.

[00:13:16] Serious conversation now. Everything else is going to be not dumb. Very serious. Very serious. Let's talk about Brooks's brassy broads. We're getting serious now. We've done some genre, well yeah, a few genre directors. I wanted to do someone who makes slightly more grounded movies. Human films. Yeah.

[00:13:34] And he is one of those rare examples of that guy who also got crazy blank checks to make weird movies that sometimes did not work out. Right. But this is off of the success of all of his shows, off of the success of starting over.

[00:13:49] They finally let him make a little picture. Yeah. $8 million budget. I'm sure they view this as a throwaway. Why not? A programmer who cares. I guess so but they did release it in December.

[00:14:01] So I mean clearly once they saw it, I guess they were like, okay, this is this looks fucking good. Right. Because the guy fucking hits it out of the park. With a T of E. Yeah. And immediately he's like now a brand name as a filmmaker.

[00:14:15] I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean how many filmmakers have won the Best Picture director for their debut? It's a rare. Sam Mendes. Sam Mendes. That's one. Robert Redford. That was his debut? Yeah. Ordinary people. Yeah. All right, maybe there's a few more. Is Dance as a Wolf?

[00:14:33] Isn't Costner won? Oh my God. The 80s weirdly they did this a bunch. Yeah. All right. All right. Anyway. So how did you see this movie first? I saw this movie first not long ago. It was about actually five years ago, I think.

[00:14:49] And I was on an airplane and I was like, I've never seen this movie. This is supposed to be one of the good movies and you know, the five good movies. One of the five good movies I've ever made. Yeah.

[00:14:59] And I put it on and I immediately realized that I had made a huge mistake because this was the wrong context. The similar experience I had was when I tried to watch Moonlight on my iPad on the treadmill. Uh-huh. On a chair. You got worse every time.

[00:15:13] Moonlight's on your iPad on the treadmill. Yeah, on the treadmill and I had to stop because I was so ashamed on so many levels. Did you set the incline to be steeper as each chapter progressed and his struggle to find himself, his identity became greater?

[00:15:28] If I'm totally honest with you about 10 minutes in, I turned it off and I realized that I didn't have any more episodes of Vikings. So I was just not going to do cardio today. Sure, sure. I tune. I need something to watch.

[00:15:39] Your exercise is conditional to having good content. Absolutely. It's a reward-based system. That's how I get through a lot of shows. I will only allow myself to watch them. Like the OA was that way.

[00:15:50] So I did a lot of cardio that week because I can only watch it when I'm doing that. Yep, you too. I need to start doing this. I'm trying to get in this season two shape. What shape? That's the point.

[00:16:00] I'm trying to buck the trend from season one, old tired grip. Do you think if your body was like a humming machine, you'd be a better actor? I don't think my body will ever be a humming machine. Humming machine.

[00:16:12] I think I have a lot stacked against me genetically. Yeah, your body is like a jalopy. My body is a sloppy old jalopy. It's a puttering, like, nicky mouse car. We made the same joke different sides. We did almost kill you. Yes, that's true. You almost died.

[00:16:26] You can attest to that. We can talk about that now. This is a good place to talk about it. I almost died a couple of times. The character of Arthur is chubby. That's true. I mean, originally. Yes. Right, in the cartoon and stuff.

[00:16:41] He's got like a belly, right? He's got a belly. He's a little more rotund. That's the thing because the thing with Arthur is his face is a little round. He's got a big belly but then his arms and legs are really fit because the idea

[00:16:50] is he's doing a lot of running and running. He's got abs. Kind of. It depends on the drawing. Right. But he's got a tummy. And pecs. It's a weird body that would be very hard to develop. Right, you're right.

[00:17:03] But when I was casting them, there was only a photo out. People complained online and I of course read them because I hate myself. People complained online so I gained some weight and I was like everyone's going to fucking laud me for gaining the weight. Did you really?

[00:17:21] I did. Idiot. And no one ever acknowledged it. Which means that most people didn't notice and the people who noticed were like we shouldn't talk about this. Well, you did lose 20 pounds in like one episode. There's an episode where I lose 20 pounds.

[00:17:37] Where I go around a corner and I come back and I'm 20 pounds late because I almost died. Usually that's actor season two bodies but if you're on a show that got renewed you'd know.

[00:17:45] Right, that's my goal is to get as close to death as I can before the season starts. So I look good but then don't die while we're filming. That's my big strategy. Anyway, this is what I was going to say. More slightly off topic. I don't think so.

[00:17:59] Moonlight I start crying within like five minutes of that movie. I play that film very overpowering. In terms of Endearment you said you watched it on a plane and immediately realized it was a mistake. Does this movie start activating you emotionally that early on? Yes. Wow, okay.

[00:18:13] I mean well I said to you before we even started but the line that killed me. It's two things. It's this one line in the opening and it's also just Deborah Winger's performance. Yeah. Which I have never seen anything like it.

[00:18:26] Honestly, I can't really relate it to anything. I describe this as she's so natural. There's a sense of like... Naturalist or... It could be improvisational. It could not. You don't know. It's as if she is just a person who wandered onto a set and they were like,

[00:18:40] she's doing interesting things. Let's put the camera on her. She has her human energy. Very. Yes. The line you are not special enough to overcome a bad marriage. It's a great line. Yeah. It's a great line as written and also if someone delivered that line to me,

[00:18:55] I would have to like go on vacation for a month and not talk to anyone. Yeah, and this movie is full of those. Yeah. That's his specialty. That's like the arrow to the heart. Just start. You will be cracked open for the rest of this film. Yeah.

[00:19:12] This movie... Yeah, we'll say and I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass here. But I rewatched it. I saw it for the first time maybe two or three years ago on Netflix, having been a James L. Brooks fan but being like,

[00:19:25] oh, it's weird I've never seen that one. And it is kind of a hammer punch, but I do think what's kind of impressive about this movie is it... Spoiler alert. Unlike most quote unquote cancer movies, it is not structured like a cancer movie until it is.

[00:19:41] I had avoided this movie for years because I knew of it as a cancer movie. I always thought it was going to be two hours of someone slowly dying. Right. See, I actually always thought this was like toxic mother-daughter relationship movie. Right.

[00:19:52] I also thought that they were much more opposed than they turned out to be. Those were the two things I thought it was going to be she gets diagnosed ten minutes in. I didn't realize that they move away from each other almost immediately. Right. Like yeah.

[00:20:03] My mind's eye version of the movie was she's diagnosed ten minutes in and then it's a mother and a daughter fighting while she dies of cancer. And I was like, that sounds rough. I know that's supposed to be good, but that sounds rough.

[00:20:12] It sounded like one of those emotional ringer movies where right, the end you're almost exhausted, but it's so powerful. Right. I mean this is kind of like a companion film to Beaches. Yes. If Beaches is like the more commercial likeable character. That's what it's going to say. Yes.

[00:20:23] I thought this was going to be Beaches. I thought Beaches is like slightly wackier, but yes. But instead it's like, what's kind of fascinating about this movie is... Oh man, and this has DeVito and Beaches as Hoskins. They both have like diminutive love interests.

[00:20:33] I mean, DeVito is obviously not that crucial. They both have hairy eggs in them. I mean the men in this film... Yeah. It's quite a group of guys. Just Jeff Daniels' name. Yeah. Flap. Flap Horton. This is when Jeff Daniels... That's like a Palin name. It's true.

[00:20:48] This is when Jeff Daniels is at like peak golden retriever. Yes. When he's just trying so hard, but he keeps on pissing. But she's a bad golden retriever. He keeps on pissing on the road. Right. He's a shitty golden retriever. Your furniture's all messed up.

[00:21:00] He's not house trained. But they're all shitty people. This is his second movie, Jeff Daniels. What was his first? Ragtime, which is his debut where he's sort of like a hot young face. And Lethgail only had sort of gotten big in the couple years before this.

[00:21:14] This is the year after Wenger does Officer and a Gentleman. Like outside of McLean, these are a lot of like new people for the big screen. Right. People who are just kind of starting off. Everyone's so perfectly cast.

[00:21:26] And the movie is for like the first 75, 85% just the story of these two lives. Without any sort of foreboding like cloud on top of it. Like it just feels like you're watching like boyhood or something.

[00:21:41] You know, it's just like here are these people over the years and their relationships and the changes. So then when like the fucking hammer drop happens, it's devastating because it's not a movie where you're sitting there going like, oh fuck just how much longer.

[00:21:55] It's really not a sentimental movie. It's an incredibly unsentimental movie for a cancer film. I mean, even the moments that make me cry so much are because they lack sentimentality. Like her like we're jumping to the end, but like her goodbye to her sons and things like that.

[00:22:11] It's just, I know. Even her death, I didn't know she had passed. That scene is so impressive. I watched that scene and I was like, did she just give her a shot? Did she just put, did, did she just murdered by the nurse? I had to rewind.

[00:22:24] I wasn't sure what had taken place. Yeah, it's, it is such an understated movie that is just so fucking exquisitely observed in like every fucking moment. So the opening scene. Before the cancer. Yeah, he does this thing I love.

[00:22:41] So already I'm just like so on board with this movie where after like the black and the opening like company titles, then it's just that little nightlight in the corner. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[00:22:52] The first shot of the movie is you just see the nightlight and the rest of the screen is black. So if you weren't paying attention, you would almost think maybe the movie like still wasn't starting yet. And you just hear Shirley McLean freaking out about the baby. Right.

[00:23:07] It's it's crib death. Right. It's crib death. Right. So you're like, okay, this is, this is an intense woman, but it's entirely directed at protecting her daughter now, which like when she almost gets in and her high heels and then she retracts. Yes.

[00:23:22] And he's do this movie has so many good like long takes where he just lets the actors play things. Oh yeah. And a lot of it, he doesn't, he doesn't, he there are always like two shots. He's not doing a lot of like traditional coverage.

[00:23:36] I mean, it plays a lot like theater. You're doing these extended scenes and you're just sat in these static shots and it's beautiful. I think that's part of what lends that kind of natural aspect to the performance as well. It's just capturing whatever's happening.

[00:23:48] It doesn't feel as curated. Penn's laughing. I don't know why because it's a smart point. That's why it is. And it's like, I was like, why are they cutting? Right. Like a million different angles. Like what has happening? My brain kind of.

[00:24:03] He's not like carving a performance from the various performances he was given. He was just like, this is, this is what they're doing. And I think he likes tension. He likes them playing off of each other. Again, dramatic. Yes. Yes. But we recorded this.

[00:24:17] Mays air is totally out of order because we're banking up episodes where we start filming season two of the tick colon. Arthur gets buff and so we've been watching later Brooks movies before now going back to record the first one and he gets so

[00:24:32] close up reliant where like by the time you get to how do you know the movie could have been shot with the actors in different continents in different decades. And this it's like when he cuts to a close up, it's really fucking good.

[00:24:45] But he like saves it for when it's like an exclamation point on something. He also and like it's funny because we were talking off mic about how he was perceived as sitcomming, you know, American mainstream American movies, but this movie doesn't cut at all.

[00:25:00] Like that it's not what you would think of as a sitcomming movie. No. And it's it is a comedy. Like I think it's so devastating. It's really funny and I laugh a lot throughout the movie except when she has cancer. It's a comedy like Chekhov is a comedy.

[00:25:13] Yeah, I just think it's got a really consistent amount of jokes but it's also devastating. It has a lot of great lines that I laugh at and it has some very exaggerated sequences, you know, like your car. Hey, is someone's Nokia ringing?

[00:25:28] Oh guys, this is my business phone. Hold on. Let me just pick this up quickly. Ben, do you mind if I just put this on speakerphone quickly? Val, I'm sorry. Let me just get this quick. Fine. Yes. Hello. Hello. Sorry, you're not coming through clearly.

[00:25:49] No, I'm coming through crystal clear. This is how I talk. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Is that who I think it is? My ears were burning. I know who this is. David, a little bit of advice. Is an actor in the movie we're discussing. Another man's rhubarb.

[00:26:06] Hey, Jack, how you doing? Ben, quick question. Yes, sir. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? No. Griff, third question. You got any advice for what I should do for my hairline? Oh, he's bringing it up.

[00:26:22] Okay, well, yeah, Jack, it sounds like you're one of 66% of men who lose their hair by age 35. And you're certainly on the wrong end of 35 right now. Look, Jack, can you hear me? This is Griffin talking.

[00:26:34] The thing is when you start to notice hair loss, it's too late. You know, and it's like, I'm not saying your hair all falls out right away, but maybe you notice it slowly moving backwards, maybe some bald spots. And Jack? Yes.

[00:26:48] It's easier to keep the hair you have than to replace the hair you've lost. He can hear you. You don't have to shout. I don't put speakerphone. Sometimes it's hard. Yeah. Well, Jack, have you been turning to any weird solutions when like,

[00:27:00] you know, to try and fix your problem? Jack, I ask you, do you want a bald spot to pop up? Or do you want to do something about it first? The ladder. All right.

[00:27:10] Well, why don't you go to forehems.com, which is a one-stop shop for hair loss, for skincare, for sexual wellness. Sexual wellness for men. I'm a bit of a fuck master. You know what I'm talking about, Ben. I get it, Jack.

[00:27:21] I like to rub another man's rhubarb if you catch my drift. Well, sure. Okay. Whatever you want. Thanks to science, baldness is optional for you. Hems will connect you to real doctors. What? And they'll get medical grade solutions to treat hair loss.

[00:27:36] Oh, like the kind of stuff you get behind a gas station counter, right? No, no. More like well-known generic equivalents to name brand prescriptions that will help you keep your hair. There's no snake oil pills. That was going to be my next question. No.

[00:27:49] These are prescription solutions backed by science. Well, great. It sounds like in order to do this, I just have to go through an awkward doctor visit. In fact, all you have to do is go to forehems.com. There's no waiting room. It's so easy.

[00:28:00] You answer some questions, doctor reviews and prescribes you, and the products come right to your door. Sounds great to me. Trying to make sure I don't end up like a DeVito. Now, I actually use some of these products.

[00:28:11] I am 32 years old, and I have been losing my hair. Sure. And I'm going to tell our listeners that the doctor was able to provide me with the topical solution and prescription. It's all been really helping me feel better about myself.

[00:28:28] And you didn't have to have some weird conversation where you go all the way to the doctor's office. No, it was super easy. All right, so... Ben! Yes, Jack? This is 3-time Academy Award winner Jack Nicholson talking. Oh, I'm familiar. Does Hymns treat pubic baldness?

[00:28:44] Uh, you know, I bet you could use the product also on, uh, yes, your pubis. Cool, I was asking for a friend. Uh, if... So? My friend the Joker. Order now. It was made by Jack Nicholson. It was me. I... It's the worst performance I've ever given. Oh.

[00:29:02] Pretending that I'm not afflicted with pubic baldness. I mean, honestly, I thought you were just saying your nickname for your penis was the Joker. It is. Okay. Blank check listeners are going to get a trial month of Hymns for just $5 today right now while supplies last.

[00:29:16] While supplies last. Wow, what an effective ad read. I'm so glad I fit pubic baldness in there. You just go to the website 4Hymns.com for the details. This would cost hundreds of dollars if you went to the doctor or pharmacy

[00:29:28] and instead all you need to do is go to 4Hymns.com slash check. Okay, I gotta run. I hear another podcast talking about me. I called them up on my flip phone. All right, well, you can hang up on Jack, but I'm just going to say

[00:29:40] just go to f-o-r-h-i-m-s.com slash check that's 4Hymns.com So I checked to make sure I've typed in the web address. No, you... Okay, let me hang up. Wait, what are you saying? No, you go to 4Hymns.com slash check. Oh great. Okay, goodbye. Bye. That's crazy.

[00:29:55] He just called in on my work phone like that. My Nokia work phone. Why is your work phone a Nokia 5110? You know, because I want to make myself a little difficult to reach only the Nicholson's have that number. Fair enough. Anyway, Val, what were you saying?

[00:30:06] I'm looking forward to your take on the car. I just didn't know how the car started again. Genuinely, that's what I was worried about. There's no way their car starts again. They are stuck there. Done. Like, you know, there's right, there's a few sequences like that

[00:30:20] that are comic set pieces. That are actually more heightened in comedic. And was a character that was not in the book? Really? Really? Not in the book. So wait, what's the book then? The book is The Mother and the Daughter. But what does the mother do?

[00:30:34] Because her sexual awakening to me is so crucial to why this movie works. But you know what I can totally say I could totally do without the sexual awakening? That feels like that sort of like cliche inevitable thing that she needs to be fixed

[00:30:46] of the fact that she isn't particularly interested in sex. She needs this man and his bravado to come and like, and wake her up like fuck off. I prefer her and her Amanda Wingfield with her gentlemen callers around her. Oh my god, those gentlemen callers they're such goblins.

[00:31:01] Love them all. My wonder is if in the book the DeVito character's more of a thing. Maybe. Because it feels so good with his set up sex baller tie. Right, you're just like does this movie, is this a bunch of her being like

[00:31:14] I don't want to fucking sleep with you cowboy DeVito? You know, DeVito is a sexy man. He is. Val is not mine. I'm not going into her for that. I'm not going for it. I love DeVito. But you know what like these women do have some interesting tastes

[00:31:27] because I wouldn't have necessarily gone with John Lithgow either. No he's gonna. No older John Lithgow he aged well. He aged well. He was very creepy when he was young. It's weird he looks like a Frankenstein. It's like he has no hair at all on his skin.

[00:31:41] Yeah and he's, it's right it's a bit of a baby face. Definitely. But then also he's a giant. Right, he's like this lumbering giant. I mean that's why he's so well cast in this movie. When you pick her up. Oh my god.

[00:31:54] But I love that she doesn't have an affair with a young stud. No exactly. No Daniels is hot. Like she did that. He's a fucking hot dog in this movie. Hot dog, hot diggity dog. He's nice like Lithgow's nice and she's like interesting.

[00:32:08] Right it's literally just like he is so sensitive and attentive. Right. Because that's what's missing. Well I don't know. That's the other thing it's like crazy to me when I watch it and like already having made the point about being about two women at this time.

[00:32:19] But this is literally and it's again why I kind of don't need Jack Nilsen but it's like we're watching a film about these two women and their sexual identities. Yes that's what this movie is about.

[00:32:29] You know I mean that's her whole relationship with Jeff Daniels and so she has that fulfilled. She just doesn't have any of the emotional needs fulfilled. That's what John Lithgow's there for. Right. There were a couple of lines in the first 30 minutes alone where I said I can't

[00:32:41] believe this movie was made 35 years ago and I can't believe people are still skittish to do this today. Yeah. Where like her getting oral sex from him on their wedding night. Uh huh. In an extended sequence. No it's a wedding day isn't it? It's like pre-wedding. Right.

[00:32:53] But did they like stay on that? This movie is rated PG by the way. Yeah. Parental guidance. Because PG-13 didn't exist. Yes. They say fuck horns and she talks about it making her wet like 20 minutes in but it's a PG. Yeah.

[00:33:05] Right and like that line too it's like this movie is so casual. It's Frank. Like in the sexual desires of these women. Mm-hmm. And describing the acts for them. In a way that doesn't happen fucking today. No it doesn't.

[00:33:17] Unless people act like that's the entire point of the movie. Sure. And then it also would have no levity. Right. There would be no humor at all. Right. It's very off hand in this.

[00:33:25] Like there's the moment where she's lying on her back and then the dress goes up over her head and you go like any other comedy would cut out right now. Right. The second it's implied they would cut out. Mm-hmm.

[00:33:35] And then it's like 90 seconds of Deborah Winger going like where did you learn that? But with that laugh. Yeah. Like her snorting laugh. She's enjoying it. Sex isn't a burden. It doesn't immediately get unrated because she might have an orgasm from all things. 35 years ago. Yeah.

[00:33:50] Maybe they just didn't know how to categorize you know oral sex on women 35 years ago. Yeah. Nobody could conceive of it. No one will get this so let's not worry about it. They didn't know what it was and they're like he's doing something to her toes.

[00:34:01] What are you talking about? She doesn't have a penis. What could he be doing down there? There's nothing to do. Giving her raspberries on his stomach. There's the getting on top line later. Oh my God it's so good.

[00:34:12] I love that line so it really makes me laugh where she's like she just wouldn't shoot. That wouldn't be. Right. Well and it's even like. Have you asked hundreds of times? About a thousand times. But she stays with him despite his behavior because the sex keeps them together.

[00:34:29] Yeah. That's fucking rad. Yes. And she even says that later on where it's like why'd he left this guy? He's so cute. Me too. She is still so turned on by him. It's so interesting.

[00:34:40] I mean I hear what you're saying about Nicholson but I also like that that's the middle act of the movie. That isn't what it builds to ultimately. She kind of gets over him then is fine with like that's a period in her life.

[00:34:51] I mean isn't the last line of the movie her saying that her two-year-old granddaughter is too old for him? Yes. It's great. Because it doesn't, yeah exactly we say. The fact that it doesn't become the culmination of her storyline that is not the end goal for her arc.

[00:35:05] I agree. That's what makes me like. That character was made whole cloth for the movie and was written for Nicholson. Interesting. Right. I think probably the suitors were more of a thing throughout the movie with David O'Brien.

[00:35:18] Because you know Nicholson is in most of James L Brooks' movies and obviously they have a good working relationship. Now. But right but it's like did they know each other before this? No. What do you mean? You said that like you had some hot gossip.

[00:35:30] Well this is where they establish their relationship right? Or are they already friends? Yes there was such a Rio Grande line with TV and film and Nicholson is like maybe the biggest star in America at this point. If not the top five.

[00:35:41] No that's pushing it but he's a big star. He's huge. Humongous, right? He's already won an Oscar. Yeah. But no he's I mean he's no he's not like a Redford or even a Paul Newman but yes he's like. I'd say he's in the five with those guys right?

[00:35:55] As a serious actor yes not as a box office guy. Had he already done like Witches of Eastwick where he's playing these kind of things? No that's where later. That's 87. Batman comes later. Reds is the say a year before the couple years before this.

[00:36:07] This is kind of the start of Cad Nicholson in a way. Well you know if you think about his seven like the last five years of his career have not been successful. Oh interesting. It's not really.

[00:36:17] I mean the Postman always rings twice and the shining are in there those are the hits. Right. I don't know how big of a hit the Postman always rings twice. He's never covered his character in this film then. Little bit I think.

[00:36:28] That he then kind of played variations on. Because otherwise you got weird movies. You know he got like the Missouri breaks and the border and going south you know like it's where he's like trying shit out. Right. You know what I mean? Like he's a famous actor obviously.

[00:36:42] This is Oscar using like Chinatown and Cuckoo's Nest and all that but like. So funny. It's like he all the kids are a box office man. Like the successful characters that preceded it were predicated on him being dangerous.

[00:36:53] And this is a character who has and there's nothing left in him that's dangerous. Like he's passed to that point. It's kind of a brave performance in a way because he's you know he's all tubby and he's sort of like an idiot. He plays his belly a lot.

[00:37:06] He really plays his belly like a drum. I read an interview with James L Brooks where he said that he thinks Jack Nicholson is the greatest actor alive because of how much he pushes out his belly in the terms of endearment.

[00:37:16] That's where he realized it where he went. I don't think there's another guy with this power. Right. So who would have the lack of ego. Right. The lack of ego to just do whatever is demanded. You went for it at the beginning of season one. You tried.

[00:37:29] I tried. I was trying to Nicholson so hard. Pull a belly. Pushing out my belly. There are there is one scene in the pilot where I'm literally pushing out my belly like someone doing an impression of a pregnant woman. I did not notice.

[00:37:40] You know when kids do that in like middle school. We all do that. I mean you're always in the sort of office pants. Yeah. No it's when it's when I'm in my pajamas. There's like the scene in the pilot where tick is in my apartment.

[00:37:50] I'm in my pajamas and I'm literally pushing out my belly as far as I could have buttoned it. So you could have had that Nicholson like swim attire. Yeah. I should have gone. Yeah.

[00:38:00] Well because in the first his like first scene he's got like the chest hair out and he's sort of like he's using it almost like a prop, you know. And that's when he's asking her to get lunch with him. But that's you.

[00:38:09] But then when she makes the move on him it's all belly. Years later. That's amazing. Realize how much he progresses. Well right.

[00:38:16] So when this movie kicks off you're like oh okay so it's about you know you see the scene we just described with the baby but then it's like oh she's a teenager. Oh she's getting married like you know what we start rapidly moving forward in time.

[00:38:27] And the kids are born I mean it's just like you see she moves away really fast. He makes big jumps in time without title cards without like anything expository like she mentions being pregnant and the next thing you know she's got a two year old you know. Right.

[00:38:41] She's not the next thing you see that she has to like the last pregnancy when she has a conversation about you know Shirley McLean brings up the abortion.

[00:38:47] Right when she wants to wait a while to show the baby right and I had her I had a moment where I was like did she do it you know.

[00:38:55] He does that really well but you make a really good point about the Nicholson thing which is like he becomes this kind of symbol of the counterculture in like the 60s and 70s where it's like here's the angry young man fighting back against you know the institution and he's one of this wave of like

[00:39:10] the new 60s 70s leading man who don't look like movie stars. And nobody still has the energy that he does people are still trying to find that or copy that or something that's like crackling dangerous energy.

[00:39:21] Weird like caged animal right but then this is the turning point where it stops being Jack Nicholson is the audience surrogate character you're venting your like anti institution frustration through Nicholson ordering too much at the diner you know. Sure.

[00:39:37] And then this becomes like Nicholson is the supporting character or the co-lead he's like the dilemma and the movie is about how scary Jack Nicholson is.

[00:39:46] So many of his performances post this like Harper which is a V-swick like is like do you really want to get in bed with Jack Nicholson metaphorically or literally like are you sure about this I know he's charming but like he might be the devil.

[00:39:59] And then it even like runs all the way to like the last five performances he did are all like anger management that departed. Not the bucket.

[00:40:07] Well it's men it's older men who used to be that sort of angry young man lost their virility and now that's the source of their anger and frustration they're trying to compensate for it.

[00:40:15] But when he's quiet in a movie like The Crossing Guard or The Pledge or something he's good too I mean he's great and a batch meant you know like he he's a very talented actor but like he's also a movie star.

[00:40:26] You read Paul Thompson Anderson and doing his like Phantom Thread Press has talked about how he really wanted Warren Beatty to play the Bert Reynolds part in Boogie Nights.

[00:40:38] And he sent the script to him and Beatty came back with notes on the Dirk Digler character because he just assumed that's what he was being offered.

[00:40:50] Now it's interesting that you that's one thing that's amazing that you said that but it's interesting you just said that do you know who this character was written for. Warren Beatty. Bert Reynolds. Oh yes. The Nicholson character was initially.

[00:41:03] I think I wasn't Warren Beatty and they cast Shirley Maclean and Warren Beatty. Yes I do know that he wrote it originally written with him in mind Reynolds turned it down to make an action a NASCAR movie called Stroker Ace. How did that go? Great. Well Reynolds famously.

[00:41:17] One of five Oscars. He actually said there are no awards in Hollywood for being an idiot. You know because Reynolds is one of those careers where it's like he was a fucking movie star for all the eighties and was mostly critically trashed for all the eighties. Yeah.

[00:41:31] And like when you know and he did he was just like whatever I'm going to be a movie star forever right and then when the nineties come around he's like where's my Oscar though like wait a second like the Bert Reynolds fascinating arc was he comes out of the gate and like legitimate movies.

[00:41:44] Oh and like deliverance. Right so good. He's like Redford Newman you know he's one of these guys and then he immediately just goes like give me a mustache in a car. Yeah yeah can I be driving in every single movie I make yeah.

[00:41:55] And Ren track that weird company that like polls movie theater owners and asked for the top 10 biggest box office draws of every year.

[00:42:04] He like holds the record for being number one for five or six years in a row for movies that made insane amounts of money that have not held up. They've never heard of right called like driving a car. He's three different car franchises right.

[00:42:17] Yeah but he like yeah had that arrogance and like spent money like he was going to be famous forever and then by the eighties was already starting on a CBS sitcom. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway he's not in this movie.

[00:42:28] He's not and I think he had an ego that Nicholson didn't and that baby did you know. Oh yeah when the baby Dirk Diggler things amazing.

[00:42:37] The baby at that age like late 60s still was like oh but I'd play the young guy who fucks everybody and Nicholson at this point in his career when he still was like a viable leading man and could have been the guy who was like fighting to like play like co lead and like me look as as good as it gets like 20 years later where

[00:42:54] it's like he's 30 years older than Helen Hunt you know.

[00:42:57] And you look at this hurt my head right but you look at this and it's like this guy's over the hill and he's like yeah I'll play it's a good part like there's no sort of possessive like I need to hold on.

[00:43:07] Hold on to my being the hot young cool guy and then he leans into as much as possible. And this is one of his first like big supporting parts where then he gets comfortable doing shit like Reds. Well Reds is before this. This is before. OK.

[00:43:20] Reds before this but that's like what's always cool about him is that he like is a big movie star but also is like if it's a good supporting part I'll play it. Yeah. Yeah. Nick. Nick. Jacky. You like the Lakers.

[00:43:33] I heard and this is a hot gossip and I probably shouldn't be saying this on Mike so then maybe cut this out. I heard he likes wearing sunglasses. But we're like outside right during the day. This is what's crazy about Jacky's a while. Everyone leaning in what's up.

[00:43:49] You'll wear them in the front row of the Oscars. That's bad. Yes. But you know why because the stars are so bright that night. Right. That's what it is Hollywood's biggest stars. The wattage. All right. So I cut all that out. Thank you. It's too hot too hot.

[00:44:05] Debra Winger has like just kind of come up as like the next great leading lady at this point. Right. Well she'd been an urban cowboy. Right. And then. Officer and gentlemen was kind of her like America's sweetheart role where it was like here we go.

[00:44:19] She's she rocks in both those movies on how you feel about an officer and a gentleman. She rocks in all things. Yes. An officer and a gentleman is a sexy movie. Yes it is. Yeah. And then McClain was kind of at her like she's overdue.

[00:44:34] Yeah when she won the Oscar it was it's kind of nuts that she'd never won an Oscar. She's like a six time nominee. Right. It was in so many like big canonical films and had worked with all the like great directors great.

[00:44:46] She'd been in a fucking rat pack. Right. Right. She was like the one lady who like hung with the rat pack. Yeah. Like she was like a legend. And so yeah he gets these three people together in this movie where Shirley McClain is kind of playing my grandmother.

[00:45:03] She's playing a. Griffin's revealing some personal details. Yeah well to do Texas society lady I guess. I don't want to accuse my grandmother of plagiarism because this movie did come out some years before I was born. Sure.

[00:45:16] But that was my grandmother's exact response my mother told her she was pregnant. Wow. How can you do this you're too young to make me a grandmother. Oh yeah. And we were not allowed to call her grandma growing up we had to call her menu. Okay.

[00:45:29] Which is a French gibberish word that she told us meant young and beautiful. I also want everyone to know how important this story is to Griffin because I think he told this to me the first day we met. Yeah. And then at least one more time subsequently.

[00:45:44] I think our drunken hotel bar night in London Val and I went deep on it Val and I have deep conversations. Sure. We get smarter and smarter the more old fashioned. Yeah we get so intelligent when we're drunk you have no idea. People should be listening. Yeah.

[00:46:02] But my grandmother is very similar to this except she's the my grandmother's a Polish Jew from Brooklyn who then moved to Europe and was like no I've been a European socialite all time. Exactly. She went to like. It's yeah it's like. Right.

[00:46:19] She was like classmates with Barbara Streisand at the same school in Brooklyn and then was like no I have always been a lady of aristocracy. But she is like the European socialite version of the like Texan Southern Bell that Shirlin of Clane's playing in this.

[00:46:38] So like from the get go as someone who grew up around someone like that every element of this character is so well done because it's so easy for it to tiptoe into farce especially

[00:46:52] when like that opening scene we get it like she's intense but it's all the name of her daughter which I think the whole movie doesn't work if you don't have that as a prelude because otherwise you just like this woman is mean. I mean right.

[00:47:02] She's mean for a good 20 minutes after that. I mean the scene where she tells her to basically have an abortion. Yeah and not marry her husband. And then when she suggests when Deborah Winger suggests that she give her money. Right.

[00:47:13] What's the line where she says she gets very like she gets very stressed or very nervous about about money and then her daughter's like that's okay this will be too much for you and just go. She's like don't do it.

[00:47:24] It's not worth the stress it will bring you to give me money. Even though clearly I have three children and cannot keep a roof over their heads right now. Right which is the interesting thing is like you know they spend a good chunk of time

[00:47:37] in that like day before her wedding day of her wedding right there's like maybe like 20 minutes where you get like introduced to Betsy which that's another thing. Patsy? I'm sorry. Yeah Patsy her pal. Patsy her pot smoking pal. Pats when they smoke some reefer.

[00:47:53] The other thing I found out about the book is in the book has the affair with. Shut up. With her? Yeah. That's so fucked up because in the book. That's rude. Okay one of the things that really stands out to me about Patsy.

[00:48:04] She's you know she's a very. She has her own like transformation that. She's a very dynamic character for being so tertiary is. As I said happens to the flap I'm fucking up everyone's name. Fucking flap. She only wants the daughter she only wants Melanie at the end. Right.

[00:48:20] She'll take her and she's like genuinely upset when she is not given the daughter but she has no interest in taking care of the son. So wait so he's having an affair with her. In the book. Does she still want the baby? I believe so.

[00:48:32] I should have done more research on the book. Yeah you're saying a lot of shit about the book. Much more. Yes. You were throwing Patsy under the bus. There are a couple moments where like when they first drive off to move

[00:48:46] there's a weird lingering look between flap and Patsy that Deborah Wenger clocks and at the end when flap starts crying at the funeral he like does it to Patsy and she puts her arm around him.

[00:48:58] I think it was sort of like James Elbrooks was at least trying to imply that there was always like tension between the two of them. I guess I took that as being sort of tension in that kind of best friend.

[00:49:11] You take care of her, don't fuck this up because everybody knows you're a fuck up kind of way. Right and the betrayal at the end is weighing on him obviously. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's far more interesting what they ended up landing on. I mean his other woman.

[00:49:27] Janice. Janice yes she really amuses me. I like her. I like her two scenes. Oh and when she leaves her daughter in the entryway to that building that's the thing that distracted me in that entire scene when she chases her down in what Nebraska. Yeah.

[00:49:43] And she just sort of like jams the girl in her stroller in the entryway and leaves her there. Yeah. She's always in the background of that shot so we know that she's safe. Right. We can always see her. How old is Deborah Wenger when they shot this movie?

[00:49:58] Because I cannot believe how well she plays having that many children. She is 28 when the movie comes out. Yeah. Yeah so like 27. And she doesn't have a kid until a couple years later because her pregnancy is what made her drop out of broadcast news.

[00:50:13] She was married to Timothy Hutton. Yeah. For a few years and then she married Arliss Howard. Right. Of the Lost World Jurassic Park. That's another killer acting couple. Yeah. Yeah. And she had, oh and she also dated Bob Carey the governor of Nebraska for a while.

[00:50:30] And they met filming this. They met filming this in Lincoln, Nebraska. Wow. And I think he lost a foot in the war. Bob Carey who was president of your university back when you were there. Oh sure. Yeah. Yeah. New school.

[00:50:46] Can I give Bob Carey some comedy points right now? Shoot. They met while she was filming in terms of endearment. Yeah. And they caused some press hullabaloo because she was like newly a big star and she's dating the local politician.

[00:50:59] And he had lost a foot in the war and his public comment on the relationship was she swept me off my foot. That's pretty good. How did she not have babies with him? I know. He won the Medal of Honor. Bob Carey.

[00:51:14] He also won Getting to Date Deborah Winger for several years. He also won 10 comedy points. He won 10 comedy points. We just gave him 10 comedy points. Deborah Winger is her she has fucking cartoon character eyes.

[00:51:29] It is insane like how big and expressive and powerful her eyes are, especially in this movie. It's also why one of the things that I can't buy is when they give her cancer makeup. Yeah. In the end to like we're going to try to make these look deep.

[00:51:42] She looks incredible. And she already. She just looks so alive constantly. The one problem or the one thing that surprised me, I expected this to be a wasting away movie with cancer. She's already like a hundred pounds. She's wet. That is true.

[00:51:56] But right, they basically are like, well, let's put dark circles around your eyes and we're just not going to put the camera at you when you die, which is a great artistic choice that we're going to make.

[00:52:05] But like also maybe you just don't look that sick no matter what we do to you. She didn't look that bad. She went so quickly. She went so quickly. Can I read you an insane trivia fact from the IMDB page? Uh-huh.

[00:52:17] Deborah Winger behaved erratically on the set of this film because she was trying to get over a severe cocaine addiction. Oh, well, it was the early eighties. At one point, she and Shirley McLean got into a shoving match.

[00:52:28] I wonder if that's what I'm reading is that sort of like feral naturalistic act? She's just fucking high. She's always moving like when she's sort of like contorting her body in funny positions like leaning down and everything is funny. Everything's smiley and weird.

[00:52:46] In a way that looks beautiful and spontaneous and unexpected. I mean, that's the thing I think about both of them that these single maybe like shared quality between these two actresses is they're both completely unexpected in their performances. Everything they do, every response they have, you know?

[00:53:01] But yeah, now I see how she might have just been high. Like my favorite scene of hers is when they're in the bathroom and they have the shower running because the baby is sick and the steam is rising and she's just like even though he's delivering devastating

[00:53:16] news to her, we have to like move. Yeah, you know, because I got a job and her baby is fucking sick and it's three in the morning. She's so like energetic and alive anyway and you buy it like she's so

[00:53:26] you're making me question everything I feel about that performance. No, look, I think I was at all. Was it all the coke in the world? I couldn't give this performance. It's not just hope. Yeah, maybe that was a little special sauce and what's going on.

[00:53:41] She's trying to kick it at this point. I mean, it's not even she's on that much coke. It's like this is her trying to get off of it. I'm sorry. Have you read some of the other trivia on this page? Very bizarre.

[00:53:50] Is it also going to ruin the movie for me? No, no. Let's go shot his role in three days during a break from Footloose. Three days he shot this movie in. Three days. Got an Oscar nomination. That's impressive. He got an Oscar nomination?

[00:54:02] He did, which is kind of bizarre. It's a surprising nomination because he doesn't dominate at all. I mean obviously supporting actor but still. Right. I would have given it to Daniels over. Daniels feel about that. Right. Not happy.

[00:54:13] I've read many interviews with him where he said that he was fucking angry because literally every other actor got nominated. That is true. It got four nominations. I think he's my number five if I'm ranking these performances. Daniels is your five? Yeah. I think Daniels is my four.

[00:54:29] I would put him ahead of Lithgow. I really like Lithgow. Like you were saying earlier, there's something magical about him in such a short period of time. But it's also the character. It's the character. And people probably didn't like Daniels because of his character.

[00:54:43] Well, I don't even mean they don't like him because of the character. I meant the fact that like Jeff Daniels does beautiful work with that character but he's not going to do something that's more interesting than an inherently more interesting character which Lithgow had.

[00:54:53] He is a character who conforms to your expectations. So don't pick Labradors if you want an award basically. They wanted Janet Lee and Jamie Lee Curtis to play the mother daughter. That makes you know that's your casting the actual mother daughter.

[00:55:07] Jack Nicholson would do crazy things like show up practically naked on set and almost all their scenes were improvised. Like this is nuts. It also said that yeah, I mean like James L. Brooks would play all these like mental games.

[00:55:19] Like this feels like a very light fun like spontaneous movie and apparently they were shoving each other. It's an aircraft with drool. Right. The other crazy fact here is Jennifer Jones bought the book rights for this movie because she wanted to make it as a vehicle for herself.

[00:55:35] Okay. Her husband Norton Simon a millionaire then hired James L. Brooks to write the screenplay I think off of starting over. And James L. Brooks was like, I really want to make this. I want to direct it. I think it should be Shirley MacLaine instead

[00:55:51] or just a different actress. So he had to convince Paramount to buy them out and then he like thanked her in all of his Oscar speeches for letting him make the movie. But it's like yeah this film sounds like this crazy torturous process.

[00:56:05] John Lithgow was replacing someone who is unsighted who dropped out while they were filming. That's why it was like we need someone quickly Footloose was filming simultaneously. We can get Lithgow for a weekend. Like it's nuts but then this movie feels so effortless. Yeah.

[00:56:22] Like it's very messy but that's the appeal of the movie is that it just feels like very kind of this movie feels like breathing. It's just like human behavior. Right. What's the thing I was going to say? Flap. That's what I was going to say. Flap 4 5. Flap 4 5. Flap.

[00:56:40] So the plot, yeah they live. She lives in Iowa with her husband. Mom lives in Texas and Houston. I know the thing I was going to say. The reason I wanted to spotlight, I wanted to find out how young Deborah Wenger was. Because she has so many children.

[00:56:56] And just she nails this kind of like very unconscious physical multitasking that mothers have where it's like what you're talking about in the shower scene. Where it's just like I can rock a baby and do six other things and not have to look at it.

[00:57:12] Like when we had our friend Kitty Rich on the show. She gave an incredible performance in the studio. Right. Like podcasting with us while like tending to a crying baby. And it was just like you're not even looking at it. Like it's just like automatic at this point.

[00:57:25] So. And even her losing her temper when she meets John Lithgow in the parking lot. Right with the kids. That sort of unselfconscious anger with the kid. But also this leads me to the other thing that I love about it is how realistic

[00:57:43] the performances of the boys are. The older just snotty little boy. Yes, snotty older boy and then like the sensitive younger boy too. And he doesn't want to talk. There's no there's nothing wise about these children. There's nothing cynical about these children.

[00:57:58] It's incredibly realistic what she was working with as well. It's interesting because he makes a lot of movies with children in them. Yeah. And their performance is very wildly like. This is the one where the kids feel like real kids. But I also think.

[00:58:10] The one where the kids feel like real kids. I think that Sarah Steele in Spanish is the only other one who feels like a real kid. Which Sarah Steele is fighting really hard to make. She's a good actress. Like you know where it's right.

[00:58:19] When you think of like these good as it gets kid. Yeah. Or yeah, I'll do anything kid. Like those are those are not good kids. The little kids at the beginning of broadcast news are really good. Yes, sure. But the thing that is so impressed about this movie

[00:58:32] is it is so unconcerned with making the characters likeable because it's just like simultaneously awful things and wonderful things. Like he's just constantly just presenting these people in their full messiness. Yeah. Which is why it feels like like something like boyhood or moonlight where it's just like

[00:58:49] here's just chronicling a life. And you feel like this movie could just go on for like six hours and just continue showing these people at different periods. Sure. The way that like Lithgow and Nicholson like come in and then come out, you know.

[00:59:01] This would be a TV show now. 100%. Right? If you pitch this. Yeah. I want to do an adaptation of this McMurtry novel. Great. Like I can't wait to make this a TV show. But that's why like the cancer almost weirdly functions

[00:59:13] even now when the movie is known as a cancer movie. It certainly wasn't sold that way when it came out. But even now it functions as like kind of a twist ending because it's sort of like Titanic where it's like

[00:59:24] here's a movie about like two people that you're going to fall in love with for like all their strengths and all their weaknesses. And at the end one of them is going to die. And it's not the one you might predict. Like, you know, it's the younger one.

[00:59:36] And it's much more of a life. Also if like you go into a movie expecting a cancer movie you're braced for like I'm going to have to lose somebody. Like I'm going to watch them suffer. Yes. You're also braced for illness. Right.

[00:59:47] And it doesn't have a lot of like you say it's basically out of nowhere. Life happens. Like people who live like rich complicated lives and have different relationships in different periods then suddenly get diagnosed with illnesses and then die.

[00:59:59] And that's like the most tragic thing in the world. Right. And this movie just makes you live with her for like an hour and 50 minutes. And then it's just like completely random and sudden. Well, and it's not a device in her character development. At all.

[01:00:11] You know, it doesn't serve to give her any kind of meaning or change her or anyone around her in any way. Because it doesn't. Nobody changed it. It is that very slice of life thing of like this doesn't mean anything. None of it meant anything.

[01:00:23] And also the movie is moving in such a clip and how it jumps ahead in time that at the moment they diagnose her you're like, wait, we have like 30 more years to go. What are you talking about? Like you're so ready to see the rest of her life

[01:00:33] and there's no meaning to the fact that it ends then. She doesn't get to like close anything. It doesn't help anyone else come to any greater understanding of themselves or their relationship to her. And that's what's great. Yeah. Like cancer as wisdom giver or something.

[01:00:47] You know what I mean? Right. It's a movie about like how death affects people by making it about her life and then having the death just be a fucking awful thing that happens. Well, and it's also the thing about Shirley McLean that she's kind of constantly plagued

[01:01:00] by that parental fear of losing her. She's from the first scene. And there was nothing she could do to prevent it. No. Right. At the end it's totally cruel and meaningless. And for somebody who's completely afraid of losing their child but also characterizes their relationship as warring

[01:01:15] and fighting all the time. Yeah. That beautiful scene where she's like, I never thought we were fighting. And her kid is like, I didn't think we were fighting. But also, you know, and then, look McLean is so, this is another movie. Like you say it's a cancer movie.

[01:01:27] This is also a movie where you think of it as like, oh, it's McLean playing this like big mom character. Whereas it's not like it's incredibly restrained performance. Her big moments are things like where she's, give me the shot, give it the shot scene. Yeah.

[01:01:40] Or that's where she's just like, can't I help in this situation? And there's no help that she can provide except screaming at nurses to give her a shot. Yeah. All the big emotional outbursts in this movie work because they're playing against the instinct of big oscarie scenes.

[01:01:52] Like her reaction to Nicholson breaking up with her is like staggering. Like I love every choice she makes like where she could have done like, you know, surely McLean and Postcards on the Edge. Right. Like, you know, which is a performance I really enjoy.

[01:02:06] But they always do the opposite of how you think a movie character would respond in those circumstances. Yes. Like there's a weird surprising funny response. James L. Burke said the reason he cast her was she was the one actress who thought it was a comedy. Wow.

[01:02:21] And he felt like it was only going to work. I mean, this speaks to what you were saying about like, I can't remember if this was before we started recording. I think the thing about, there is two co-leads where they're acting

[01:02:30] like they're in completely different films and it works. Right. Because that defines the relationship between this mother and daughter is they don't speak the same language and they have completely different experiences of their relationship and their reality. And yeah, they live in different worlds.

[01:02:42] Like literally what they see around them is completely different. They have like different glasses on. Surely McLean experiences no hardship at all in her world and yet she's like plagued by this sense of hardship and victimhood. Right. And Deborah Winger has the opposite.

[01:02:57] Like she views everything as being very positive. Right. Despite the struggles around her. But I think that is a key to this movie working is that you have someone like McLean who's playing into the comedy of the character and the situations rather than playing up the drama,

[01:03:12] which would probably make the movie like too fucking heavy to bear. Yeah. Well, and again, nobody's playing up the drama. Like Deborah Winger's not approaching it from a comedic perspective, but she's a character like we were saying before. It's like, is so full of energy

[01:03:25] and humor and she does, she laughs in response to everything. Right. Even the tough scenes to watch like the shopping, you know, the supermarket scene, which is like my favorite scene in the movie. I like how that scene is kind of funny. Like when she starts adding up

[01:03:45] and the ladies like we're going in the wrong direction. She just gives a candy bar so defiantly. You're a very rude person. And the kids like, can't we like lose this with the my doll? And she's like, no, that stays. But that's also like,

[01:03:58] that's Lithgow's big selling point is like he noticed. Right. Like Flap is always like so caught up in like his classes, his career. I also like that he introduces himself as like I just declined your application for a second mortgage. It's like, thank you for that exposition

[01:04:14] in your introduction. You just gave us everything we need to know. But it's also like, here's the guy who's like the face of her current problems. Yes. Right. Who also is like, but I'm with you. Right. I just can't do anything about it. Oh, oh, okay. Yes.

[01:04:29] Get the door griffin. Get the door. Oh, my God. David. Are you David Sands? That's me. Roll these dice for me. Okay. Sure. I don't know. Four. Two. I don't know who are you. I'm trying to get to the kitchen for a snack. But I can't wake daddy.

[01:05:00] You're the board game character from can't wake daddy. Don't wake daddy. I'm the red kid. It's great to meet you. I'm a long time fan. All I want is a midnight brisket. A midnight brisket. My favorite meal is a midnight brisket.

[01:05:20] But the problem is my daddy has such a bad mattress that he wakes up if I don't walk like this. David rolled a die again. Oh, here we go. One tip. You only got a one on that one? Yeah. I'm sorry. You still hold onto the other die.

[01:05:36] Can you roll? There you go. One tip. So your dad, he wakes easily? Constantly. Do you think his problem is that his mattress wasn't perfectly designed for him? Yeah. I mean it was almost designed to not support sleep. It's a bag of rocks. All right.

[01:05:52] Well, I think you could make an upgrade. What? From our friends at Casper. Okay. Who make mattresses that are engineered to soothe and cradle your natural geometry. What about my dad's natural geometry? Well, your dad's like most humans I'm assuming spends one third of his life sleeping.

[01:06:09] More than that. I'd say probably four fifths. So he should be comfortable. Yeah, he really should because right now I'm starving. I can never eat. So what if you could get an affordable mattress that is well made and it doesn't cost that much because Casper

[01:06:25] cuts out the middle man and sells directly to him. Okay, look here's the deal though. I'd have to sneak this past my father. Oh right because you can't wake him. I can't wake him. Is he never awake? He's never awake. Okay. So it's five fifths.

[01:06:39] Yeah, I was trying to do him a little bit of a favor but he's literally sleeping all of the time. Do you think he would care that there these mattresses are designed, developed and assembled in the United States? He would love that but this is my biggest concern.

[01:06:51] Uh-huh. There's literally one spot that my father doesn't look. Okay. A spot I'm trying to get to at the end of the board. Right. Which is a mini fridge. Right and so- Is there any way I could hide this mattress behind the

[01:07:03] mini fridge before I did the Indiana Jones style bait and switch? Well, some might say that this mattress is delivered in a how did they do that size box? What? Watch your volume also a little bit. Oh sorry, sorry.

[01:07:14] Yeah and it you know roughly a mini fridge size. Oh my God. And it's free shipping and returns in the US and Canada. So I guess I have to pay full price for the rest of it, right? No.

[01:07:25] You can be sure of your purchase with a Casper's 100 night risk-free sleep on it trial and I've got one myself. You're David Sims? I sleep on a Casper mattress. Oh my God. And any of our listeners including your dad, he listens right? I mean yes.

[01:07:45] He plays it as white noise while he's trying to stay asleep. So I can get $50 towards any mattress purchase by visiting Casper.com slash check. Oh so I have to check to make sure I type in Casper.com?

[01:07:57] No, you can go to Casper.com slash check and use check at checkout terms and conditions apply and get $50 towards any mattress purchase. That sounds incredible. By the way Valerie, I love the following. I just have to watch it with subtitles. Why? Because my daddy is always sleeping.

[01:08:15] Can you roll these dies quickly? Yeah. Oh my God, I got a 500. Wow, good job Valerie. Let me tiptoe out of here. All right, well before you leave, before you leave. Let me tiptoe back. I just want to tell you start sleeping ahead of the curve with Casper.

[01:08:37] Just a little quieter. $50 towards any mattress purchase. Casper.com slash check. Use promo code check at checkout terms and conditions apply. Okay now will you roll these die? Yes. Now I only got a four. I know. All right, well tiptoe over the door there. Wow God.

[01:08:53] I don't know how to feel. What an incredible occurrence. That was great. Unbelievable. Thank you Griffin. Don't thank me. Thank daddy. Just not too loudly. Thank you Ben for not murdering anyone with a knife during that. Yep. Thank you daddy. Thank you daddy. Daddy's dead.

[01:09:13] Yeah, don't wake daddy. Yeah. Very popular. Very popular. So. Remember when he would wake up in the commercial there and he'd be like a little scary. Yeah, and his sleeping cap would literally fly off of his head. There you go. What are we talking about?

[01:09:33] The movie Terms of Endearment. Uh huh. Yeah. We're talking about the Lithgow. Has a lot of bed scenes. Meeting in the Gracious. His exposition introduction. Yes. And then there three days of filming affair. Which because of the way the movie jumps you

[01:09:54] can't tell if they started sleeping together already. And then he makes it clear like we're just contemplating sin. Like we're getting lunch a lot and holding hands and not doing anything. She already at this point kind of suspects that flat might be cheating on her.

[01:10:07] She's supposed to be early on. I'm on to you. There's the I'm on to you. Right, well yeah. It's established pretty early on that she harbors a lot of jealousy about that. Yeah. And whether or not it's like we don't know whether or not she's just being paranoid.

[01:10:22] So it almost feels like a sort of like, I don't know, some kind of like security choice on her part to just have somebody on the side as well. She's also like her entire life since marriage she's had to totally bend around what flap

[01:10:35] wants to do where he wants to live. And he's barely there as a father and she just keeps on getting more kids and having to like carry them simultaneously. Oh yeah, they have the moment where she goes out of town to New York and he's like,

[01:10:47] well what about the kids? And it's that idea of a father babysitting his own children for two days and he has no idea what he's doing. And then even the fact that it becomes a decision they have to make of where will the kids go. Yeah.

[01:10:59] Which I have to just sit there and process for a while when I'm watching the film. And it's the right decision. Like it's great. He doesn't really fight it. Like that's the thing. He finds it very depressing but it's like I can't. What does he say?

[01:11:11] I never thought I'd be the kind of man who gives up his kids. It's like we did. We did this whole movie. He also, his character strikes me as not being a good English professor. No. No, he's a middling. He's a middling kind of going to bad

[01:11:24] small colleges. Yeah. Which Shirley MacLaine told me. I think he's in it for the girls a little bit. Yeah. And the tweed, the elbow patches. The elbow patches. Yeah, all of them. Yeah. If you're an educated white man in

[01:11:35] Texas in the 80s, you could be doing better than this. If you want to be doing better than this. It's not even the, it's the 70s. This is a period. 79 is where most of it. Yeah. It's the main last years.

[01:11:44] So there's no reason he's not the president of University of Houston. Right. Yeah. He should be the mayor of Houston. Right. But MacLaine calls it like I love that too. That scene going back where she tells her not to marry Flap and Deborah Winger is like

[01:11:58] so you're just gonna, you know, I don't think you should come to my wedding if you feel that way. And she's like great. Thank you for that permission. I agree. I felt hypocritical. She's kind of stoned. She just walks up. My mother is going to my wedding. Right.

[01:12:10] It's really funny. Right. But it's like, This whole movie is about, I mean thematically, it's about people and their limitations. And everybody just accepting one another with their limitations. Like nobody, people act horrifically to one another. Yes they do. Nobody cuts anyone off. Right. Which I love.

[01:12:24] There's never a strange man. I mean the closest you have to an estrangement is Nicholson. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, the closest you have to an estrangement is Nicholson and McLean breaking up for many years. Yeah. Obviously. But then he's still there for her,

[01:12:38] which is weird because that's the one thing he didn't want to have in the relationship. Right. It was like he wanted the sex without having the obligation. Right. But isn't that like, he's just a fucking idiot who's like, well, I don't want the obligation,

[01:12:49] but I do feel very strongly about you. Right. I can't imagine how these things would be connected. And he has a hero narrative too. He needs to show up there in Nebraska when he's in the hospital. He's an astronaut. Yeah. He's a hero of himself as a hero.

[01:13:01] Can we talk about his shrine in the kitchen? Yes. Of all places? The main thing we haven't talked about is McLean and Nicholson's like romance. And yes, his shrine, his house is like, You gotta use what you got. It's like on the dishwasher and things. Yeah.

[01:13:14] Like it's every surface in the kitchen. It's a little tacky. Wait, 150 people and I'm one of them. No, 106. The funniest things, the funniest choices occupation. He's a bum astronaut. Yeah. Like womanizing astronaut. That is so funny. And like you give James O'Berks all his credit for being like,

[01:13:29] Oh, what a brilliant idea of a character who has never existed. Yeah. In American storytelling up until this point. And also he's like, What's in Houston? Oil, NASA. Right? Like I mean, that's what you think of in Houston.

[01:13:42] And the sort of like mythology is that a lot of American astronauts had like drinking problems and depression afterwards because they kind of like could never get over it. Like they felt like they peaked. Right, of course. And this is the opposite. Who's a guy who's just like,

[01:13:53] I'm a fucking astronaut. He never really wanted to be an astronaut. He just did it. He's like, I will get laid for ever. No matter how fat I get. Yeah. Right. Like most astronauts can't get over not being an astronaut anymore.

[01:14:04] And he only wanted to be a post astronaut. Exactly. I just got to do it once. I just got to get up there one time. It is really funny to me that he beat he's, I think he was an Oscar winner for this performance.

[01:14:15] He beat Sam Shepard in the right stuff. Who is like, Interesting. You know what I mean? Like who is playing like the real like cowboy of that movie. And like maybe one day would turn into a Jack Nicholson type. You know what I mean?

[01:14:27] Sam Shepard should have won that year though. Sorry. Nicholson is just so much fucking fun in this movie. He's so fun. It is just like such an entertaining performance. I get really disturbed by the way he choose the oysters though when they go to lunch.

[01:14:38] He choose the shit out of those oysters. You shouldn't, and you can see them in his mouth. That's a distracting moment for me. That first date is, there's a lot there because there's her dress which is wild. So much. Her wig too. She's got some wigs.

[01:14:53] It's such a good structural joke about how the movie has been jumping ahead in time at that point. Sure. Where she's funny like, you know what? I'll take you up on that date and he's like, that was like six years ago. What are you talking about?

[01:15:03] Like the movie acknowledges it only five minutes of time. 15% more punch. Right. And he's also just so deflated by the time that he opens that door. Like the life has left his face. He's so much grier we can tell.

[01:15:15] But she doesn't really age in this movie does she? Not really. That's true. Yeah, no. She's just Shirley McClain. She's got the same like organs address going on. And she spent a lot of time and effort and money maintaining one look for decades. Right. You know it's like.

[01:15:31] Draping a coat over her shoulders. Yeah. So yeah, I mean they finally go out for lunch as her means to escape the weird three stooges of suitors. Right. Who are constantly having arguments and asking her how old she really is. Oh, that's the reason she leaves.

[01:15:48] It's not the suitors. It's because one of them calls her out about her age. Right. So it's her physician as far as I can tell. Yeah. That's the reason he's calling her out. Which my grandmother has. The weird conflict of interest going on in that room.

[01:15:59] Very much so. My grandmother has false ages on her legal documents. Good for her. Which is a felony. Is she still with us? Is this the grandmother who sold us? Yeah, probably shouldn't say that on air. Okay. What's her Twitter handle? Sure. It is at real Donald Trump.

[01:16:20] So they go on this date. Yeah, he offers her oysters. He drives with the top down. Right. A real woman comes prepared. Yeah, right. And then hard cuts are hurt. Like eating the elements. They have this sort of charged lunch where he's like,

[01:16:36] I recommend that you drink a lot if you want to hang out with me. Right. But the scene where he, what's the scene? Is it before this lunch or is it when the first time he asks her to be the date to the hypothetical dinner

[01:16:49] that got canceled where he's like, well if you're already down, then why don't we just go straight to lift off? Yeah, that's the six years five minutes before. Right. That's his opening proposition, which maybe puts her off for about six this year.

[01:17:02] But then they get to dinner and he immediately, like once again, is just like, let's just get through this or not even dinner. It's lunch. It's an afternoon date. What I love about it. He's like, let's rush through this to get to the sex part.

[01:17:12] He is so bad at all of that. That when she literally calls him and says, come look at my painting in my bedroom at night. Even that he's like, I have to look at your painting. You know, just sort of like ways it. I have to do anything.

[01:17:26] Because he made a huge amount of effort. Like he did get there, not dressed. He wears his like country club tie or whatever. Yeah. And she kind of tries to play along because she has her little like coquettish prepared line about what,

[01:17:38] when little boys are impatient, they don't get dessert. Yes. She's trying real hard to play along with that for a moment. All the lines, right? Yeah. Like she knows how to, how you're supposed to flirt, I guess in this sort of society way.

[01:17:52] He's not one for like double entendre or any sort of deduction. No, lead in the pencil. Right. It's lead in the pencil. But I also love like his introduction when she sees him out the window with the two women in his car.

[01:18:02] He's not even, it's not working with them. And these women are like 22. Right. You almost could go like, well, I guess he gets away with this bullshit because he's usually dating women like a third of his age, but you go like, no, everyone sees through his bullshit.

[01:18:14] The very first one I think she sees him, the very first time she sees him, it's working because that's when he's missing the garbage can and stuff to empty the bottle. Oh yeah, that's very funny. And he brings, and somebody,

[01:18:24] one of the women comes back into the house and we don't see, like we don't see the scene we see from her perspective. Yeah. And he brings her inside, but then the next time we see him with two young women, she's in the car. He's like, come on.

[01:18:34] So it did work at one point. Sure. Yeah. It's just working less and less. They are a very age appropriate couple. He is, I think, three years younger than her. Oh cool. Yes, yes. So it's just like him and Helen Hunt? Yeah, exactly.

[01:18:48] I think Helen Hunt is playing ten years older than him as good as it gets, right? That's right. That's correct, yes. But they start this weird relationship. He very quickly is like, you know, I date other women. Right. And it's like, just fucking...

[01:19:03] Yeah, he can't chill out for just a fucking second. He'll be romantic for one fucking second. I immediately just thought of as good as it gets as being in like the same universe. And Helen Hunt is the granddaughter at the end. Jeez. Hey.

[01:19:15] Can we do the master on that? The man's reputation for fucking younger women is so immense that Nancy Meyers made a whole movie about it. That is what something's got to give is. Right. There is that moment at the end of his good as it gets.

[01:19:27] Like the ludicrous premise of something's got to give is, what if Jack Nicholson fell in love with a woman his own age? Like that's like the joke. But there is that moment at the end of his good as it gets where he goes to Helen Hunt's apartment

[01:19:37] and Shirley Knight's there. And you're just like, he should just start dating the minds. I wish like he looked and was like, oh a woman my age. Right. We have more to talk about. He's got some other problems. He's got some other issues. Yeah.

[01:19:50] But yeah, it's like they form this relationship where I do like that even though stuff is obviously tense between Winger and McLean, they do have this sort of open dialogue where like Winger is able to like criticize her mother.

[01:20:04] And talk about like the things that she's not acknowledging about herself. What Valerie said, like there's never an estrangement. Like they might say things to each other that are crazy sometimes. Well, and like the closest thing to an estrangement was when she didn't talk to her for what?

[01:20:18] Three weeks after the wedding or so she wouldn't answer the phone. Right. And then all Shirley McLean really needs to do is just like barge through with what's going on in her life and interest Debra Winger enough

[01:20:29] that she'll just forgive her because she wants to know what's happening in Houston. Right. Which it's nice then when that's flipped where Winger calls and just won't stop talking and McLean has to be like I'm in bed with the astronaut. I can't talk right now.

[01:20:41] For the one time she can't talk? The one time she can't talk. It's like that's at one time where she calls and Debra Winger is like, I'm sorry mom, like I'm putting the kids in the gang. And she's like, no, I've called you ready to have a conversation.

[01:20:56] Like you're going to talk to me right now. They do have this nice kind of relationship though where they like meet in the middle and at some points the movie does it feels like reduce it to like, God it's been way too long since this broad got laid.

[01:21:10] But I also feel like it's something about the fact that it's like here are two people who are equally difficult in different ways but they're like willing to call each other out on bullshit because they both have so many weird like defensive walls built up around their personalities

[01:21:26] and how they want people to perceive them, you know? Well, they call each other on their bullshit because they essentially also will accept each other unconditionally for their bullshit. So there's no reason not to say something about it. Which is kind of beautiful.

[01:21:38] And like even at the end of the movie, it's like maybe they weren't supposed to date but they're like good people to have in each other's lives. You know? I think the sex thing goes beyond like she needs to get laid

[01:21:48] or whatever it's also like finally she's like, Oh, I get why you married the idiot. This is fun. Like I see this like I maybe I didn't say have that perspective before. And also letting another person enter her life. Like those three suitors are like, you know,

[01:22:04] the movie implies at that point that they've been like following her around for like seven years and she lets them like kiss the ring and then sit at the table like groveling. Well, I mean if you go into it like obviously

[01:22:13] we never see her relationship with her husband with what? The voice of the husband. But there is that feeling that it's the kind of relationship where and she never was intimate in an emotional way or even like truly present in a physical way obviously with her husband.

[01:22:30] So she gave all of that intimacy to her daughter and then it was asked of her even after she moved away. So it's like it needed she needed somebody else to sort of serve that purpose and be a connection that's actually in physical proximity to her.

[01:22:43] And so she picks literally the closest person in physical proximity to her. You're there, you were so fucked up and I hate everything about you. But your next door? Your next door. That's his one point when he's breaking up with her

[01:22:54] where I'm like he's got a point there where he's like we literally live next to each other. It's a little weird. And it's like that would be weird. Don't date your neighbor, right? That's a good call, right? Don't date your neighbor.

[01:23:03] I know one person who dated her neighbor was a disaster. It was a very bad idea. He still clearly like can't get over what he respects about her as a person. Even if it stops him from being able to commit to dating her seriously.

[01:23:17] Like you can tell that he appreciates her and recognizes how much she makes him want to be a better man. Oh boy. You just bored him that much with that. I'm just tired guys. TGIF. But yeah, I mean going back to what we were saying about...

[01:23:35] Am I right buddy? I'm bad at pausing for this. David just down. No please. I'm defyvers baby. It just tapped really hard. Yeah. But it's that beautiful thing about the relationship between Wenger and McClane where we're talking about that they will call each other out on things.

[01:23:51] And then you have the moment with the grandson when I can't listen to you criticize your mother anymore and she hit... And she slept that shit out of him. And it references something Wenger says earlier where she says don't make me hit you in public to her son.

[01:24:05] And it's maybe my favorite moment of Brooks as a pure visual filmmaker because the movies have these kind of like locked off, like occasionally there's a little camera movement but a lot of locked off like wide shots or two shots of people in long takes

[01:24:20] and there's like a nice kind of like, you know, somber walking out of the hospital with the children sort of like master shot. And then when he says that McClane slaps him and the kid runs away the camera starts like chasing after them

[01:24:36] like it's fucking the born identity. And it like gets right in their face to when like McClane grabs him. And it's like such a vital moment of just like... She slaps him. He slaps her back and she slaps him again being like I don't want to do this.

[01:24:50] You know, you can't hit me and you can't criticize your mother. And then she just starts aggressively kissing him to like button that physical interaction. See, that's the thing I think this movie is ultimately about is like how contradictory human behavior can be to human emotions.

[01:25:08] Like it's all these weird responses to situations that movies usually present as being cut and dry. Well, it's because movies are always trying to find meaning in them and that's what makes this different is there isn't a meaning in the narrative. You're not getting to some point

[01:25:23] or learning something. They don't get anywhere. I mean yes, Shirley McClane grows. I think it's a discussion we had whether or not Winger grows much as a character. I don't know. She has less room. She kind of starts out. Right, she's shackled

[01:25:39] or however you want to put it. She's like locked into this. I think she starts out kind of preternaturally wise and positive. And then she just physically ages into that being appropriate. Well, and also but right, but again, there's... It's what's so appealing about her obviously

[01:25:53] early on is she's so worldwide, but then she's sort of stuck in this in zero, you know, for a lot of the movie. Right, the tragedy of this character if you feel like never gets to live the life that she maybe couldn't live.

[01:26:04] Except then you see her in New York. Well, that's her interaction with those women. I want to talk about the New York section because that's where I think you really... Also the 80s. Right, oh it's making a real commentary about women in the 80s.

[01:26:16] Brooks has taken out a sniper rifle. We'll make a movie about women, but they're all going to be housewives and they're all going to be in the Midwest or the South when we get to those coast elite working women who don't have babies and talk about their

[01:26:27] yeast infections at lunch. They're going to be monsters. Yes, yes. Evil harpies. Yes, all shoulder pads and short haircuts. But you had these men. It's Robert Palmer video. Yes, made one of them. Now she's going to take her daughter and turn Melanie into one of those

[01:26:40] evil New York fish. It's true, Patsy with the short hair. You get to that section where she starts like fully verbalizing how she feels being around these women and you're like, she's not someone who just settled for something and doesn't think about it.

[01:26:53] She has full awareness of the life she has chosen for herself, what life she could be living otherwise, why she's happy in her world, despite struggles. Yeah, I never sense that she's shackled. No, well, it's the Nebraska move that feels hard. She doesn't get a choice.

[01:27:07] She's good in Iowa. Like, I feel like she's happy in that house, even if it's tough to afford. It's a nice looking house, honestly. But it's the Nebraska move where my girlfriend was like, she's not going to move to Nebraska. She was really annoyed about that.

[01:27:22] And he makes the decision when she's left him. And packs the whole house. Yeah, it's not even just he made this decision because he's the breadwinner and therefore that's where they're going. It's like, and then Janice is there. And then Janice is there. Janice. Fucking Janice. Fucking Janice.

[01:27:36] Who responds to, are you having an affair with like, it's like someone who like runs a basketball team being asked if he's trading a player. He's like, you know, there's conversations that need to be have and I can't really talk about this right now.

[01:27:48] Any feelings you might be having are valid. That's incredible. Also, she's supposed, I mean, it's, I don't know, we could look at the actresses, but she's supposed to be a grad student who's significantly younger. Oh, for sure. She looks his age.

[01:28:01] She could be one of those New York bitches like working in. Daniels does not age. You know what I mean? Like we're saying like Winger, like is it just as plausible as a 21 year old and is it 37 year old? Like Daniels always looks like he's 24 years old.

[01:28:13] But I like that because he's kind of like a fucking man boy. Like the idea is you probably still behave the exact same way when he's 60. We're in the same elbow pad coat. He's wearing the same haircut. Same haircut. Nothing has changed about him at all.

[01:28:23] It's like the childhood version of an English professor. Like this is what I'm going to be like when I'm a grown up and he just stays playing that role. Girls will be impressed with books. Right, which is like the certain types of people

[01:28:33] who go to teach at college for the rest of their life because they constantly want to be utilized by 18 year olds. You know? Gross people, I call them. But then, okay, so then like the big hammer drops. Yeah, we basically talked about it. We're done. I mean honestly.

[01:28:52] The answer is not the point of this movie. Happens an hour and 45 minutes in. Sure. It's a two hour 10 minute movie. Right. And it's sort of like thrown off to one. And first it's like, oh there's a cyst or whatever, you don't wash well. I wish.

[01:29:05] You never knew how to wash. Yeah. It's like who's fault is that? Seriously, I mean come on. And like as she starts to talk about it with everyone, everyone refuses to acknowledge that they're upset and scared. Yes. Like her especially.

[01:29:19] When like the malignant call is like very like, well I'm malignant. Right, none of the call. Patsy is the most upset person. Yes. Not those scenes where it's like lots and lots of scenes with doctors where we're understanding the various things.

[01:29:30] It's all just sort of happening really fast. It's like, oh you have some lumps. No, you're gonna die. It makes you think to find out the information really quickly. Very quickly. This movie cuts out all the shoe leather. Like it only gives you the scenes that matter emotionally.

[01:29:42] It doesn't give you any expository scenes where it's like you're setting up the third check-in. Yeah. Like you find out it's terminal, when it's just like yeah I'm not gonna make it. You don't get the scene where there's nothing we can do. And it's brutal.

[01:29:56] There's a moment that kills me at the end. Both from, I find it weirdly the most emotionally affecting thing in the movie. And I also just think it's a stunning piece of filmmaking and acting and all around. Just sort of like humanist storytelling. Uh-huh.

[01:30:12] That really shows the difference between like What moment? She's there. Sure. Ask the kids to come in. Right, okay yes. This is the moment that gets me too. Yes. Right. And it's one shot of her in bed

[01:30:27] stays there in silence while we're waiting for the kids to come in and she adjusts the hospital bed down to their height. With no sort of like sadness. She takes off the makeup too. Like Patti's just been doing her makeup. She takes it off. Right. She gets lower.

[01:30:43] She's all sort of red cheeked and yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was New York leading. The unceremonial just lowering of the bed without any like you know you don't cut into it close but for her going like You know? This is true.

[01:30:54] And then she just goes about it and she just has to so matter of factly say to them like look I'm not going to make it. I understand you hate me now. Right, and that's the thing where she also needs to

[01:31:03] Oh go to speech about like someday you're going to feel bad. She needs to address their future if motions about this very moment. Right. And she doesn't really address the younger one because she knows he's not going to have as much memory of it

[01:31:15] and his response is kind of you know quote unquote appropriate. It is so unsanimental. It's like objective based. Like here's what I need to tell you. Right. I think that went really well. Don't you? That's that's the part where I start crying.

[01:31:28] I think also the younger kid who I just want to point out is played by an actor called Huckleberry Fox. Yes. That's a fantastic name is more her, you know, like I feel like they have a little more of a connection throughout the movie.

[01:31:41] Like they get each other. Yeah. That kid gets it. He wants to help in various scenes. Like you know he's a little more where he's like the older kids are a little more bellious, a little more standoffish. He's the older kid.

[01:31:51] And he was also really independent when he was depicted by that younger actor. It's like he kind of shot of him going out of the house. Yeah. Just sitting down. Love that. Where you're like is something about to happen? Like is he in trouble?

[01:32:01] Like and it's just sits on the steps. Thank you for saving our marriage scene, which is so good all in like everything about. What a good movie. There's this thing about it too. It's like we talk about her as a mother,

[01:32:11] but one of the things that I think is really radical about it as well again 35 years ago is her children are not the central figures in her emotional world. Right. And in their family, it's about her and her husband

[01:32:23] and they are sort of spokes on that wheel who are affected. But ultimately they kind of have to, they're responsible for themselves. Being a mother is kind of treated like her career. Yeah. You know what's like this is her career. But then what sets off Shirley MacLean

[01:32:38] is when he says that their mother was always too lazy to look into cubs. Right. Was like she had one, you know, this idea of she had one job. Right. But she still didn't even do those things. One of course we know that like she probably couldn't

[01:32:48] afford all that stuff. She was so good at leaving stuff instead because, and it would have been earned at this point, but he gets brownie points for not doing it. When she runs back and grabs him and says,

[01:32:58] I can't listen to you talk about your mother that way. Right. Not now. I was like here's going to be the big Oscar speech. She goes like you don't know what your mother did for you. Right. And here's a three page monologue.

[01:33:09] And instead these characters who can't fucking verbalize themselves. You know they can't verbalize all the things that are left over. But she does because she verbalizes exactly what she actually needs in that immediate moment. There's an economy of language. Yeah. I cannot have you criticizing her right now.

[01:33:21] And it doesn't require a speech like he's not in a position to be taught anything. She's not in any position to give a speech about it. But she can identify her immediate emotional need and she sets that boundary now. It's the what, not the why.

[01:33:32] Because we know the why because we've been watching the movie for two hours. Yeah. And God, that two shot of McLean and Daniels when they realized that she's gone. And McLean like is fucking losing it because she clearly thinks that she's going to get

[01:33:48] the big Oscar scene with her daughter totally makes sense of their relationship before she dies. And also thinks that will give her a sort of like relief. And now it's just like, nope, it's just a moment. And Daniels is just like.

[01:34:00] I think there's also a disbelief that it actually happened. Yes. Especially because not much was allocated to that in terms of the film, in terms of the scenes like you talk about. We don't see her descent and whatnot. The strings aren't swelling. Yeah. It's just another night.

[01:34:13] She looks fine. Daniels is just like dumbstruck. Right. Totally dumbstruck. Like can't even process it. Well, he also there's always this, there's a feeling I have with that character as if he always expected her to go one way or another.

[01:34:24] Like she was going to leave him or something. You know what I mean? Like he never expected to have 30 more years with her. I also. And surely McLean did. I love that he never finds out about her affair. Oh yeah. Yeah. Love it.

[01:34:39] That he will just go to his grave being like she was so much better than me, which she was. Yeah. She never would have done something like what I did to her. You know? Yeah. And she had her affair off of a suspicion, which was probably correct.

[01:34:54] I think she also had her affair off of a need. 100%. That's the biggest thing. Right. But was able to like justify it to herself as like, Flaps probably doing this. I need this and Flaps probably not treating me any better. Yeah.

[01:35:08] She didn't seem to have any qualms about it when they're having that discussion in the diner. She's furious about the Janus thing without ever saying like, look I get it. I was you know, She does this before the Janus thing. She starts the affair before. Right.

[01:35:20] But yet when the Janus thing roars its head, she's like, fuck you. Isn't there that moment in the hospital though? It's worse. Yeah. It's worse. He dragged the family there. Yeah. Isn't there that moment in the hospital where he starts to bring it up and she goes like,

[01:35:31] you're right we shouldn't talk about our marriage right now. Right. Yeah. Like she doesn't want to have to admit it. Yeah. Maybe that's part of it. And also it's like what's the point at this point? Like what's the real thing? Right. Like who's the game?

[01:35:42] We don't need to keep having this argument that has no solution and no point in it. It would be a nice twist. Right. Yeah. And then it ends with a funeral where every character is there just quietly trying to move on with their life. Flap finally breaks down.

[01:35:58] Nicholson reaches out to the rebellious boy who we see something in. McLean gets a five point comedy joke in there about Nicholson picking up the character and it like ends on her just kind of like wistfully laughing. Yeah. It's not a depressing or a depressed funeral. No.

[01:36:17] And a little laugh cut to blue credits right? Like yeah. Right. Blockbuster or America lines up around the block to see it a fifth time. We'll talk about the box office in a second but also one best picture. Best director, best friend club.

[01:36:32] One of the few films we've covered that is one best picture. Yes. Right. We've covered certainly. Sure. We've covered one other best picture. Titanic. Titanic. Is there any others? I don't think so. You just call it Titanic. Yeah, the movie Titanic. He thinks that's funny. I'm just checking.

[01:36:48] I feel like someone else called you up for that recently. Chris gether. Yes. I think because everyone wants to know if it's intentional and you think it's funny. It is. He does. It is intentional and he does think it's funny. That's true of almost anything Griffin does. Yeah.

[01:37:03] You're like, is that intentional and do you think that's funny? Sometimes he stumbles into things where he accidentally says things and then he commits to them. He commits? Makes the choice. Never. I can't even believe you would say that.

[01:37:12] That has never happened as if I've ever miss spoken and then doubled down to own it as a joke out of embarrassment. I've never said anything unintentional in my life. Never. Ever. This movie won five Oscars? Picture director, screenplay, actress. And supporting actor. Oh, and supporting actor.

[01:37:27] It's good. Yeah. It's a movie. Big fan, huh? It's about as good as it gets. Yeah. This movie is about. As good as it gets. I, well, I heard that on the broadcast. It's been English. Anytime. Ben, you like it? Have you seen it before? No.

[01:37:45] I kind of love movies set in the 70s. I think I was born in the wrong era. Yeah, I think that's probably true. We got to make a bad guy who likes to drink too much. It's smoked pot. Like I belong. As a burnout dude in the 70s.

[01:38:04] Yeah. Also, like the best films were made in the 70s. The second best films are set in the 70s. Right. So we were saying this and we're set. We were saying this before we start recording, but how this movie makes both of us angry

[01:38:17] that they don't make movies like this anymore. For sure. And I feel like as a fan of movies, you feel that kind of anger where it's like, God, look at how confident they are in telling their story the way they want to, you know, with such delicacy

[01:38:28] and perception and all of that. So as an actor, I get furious that I'll never get to act in a movie like this. Yeah, we won't probably. We might act in a TV show like this. Yeah, it's called The Tech. It's exactly like this.

[01:38:39] It's the terms of endearment of TV shows. Before we do the box office game, there's just one Oscar nomination I want to point out that blows my mind. This film was nominated for best sound. Yeah, that's weird. That's a weird nomination. That tricky car in water. The music.

[01:38:52] Oh, that's true. That's true. Which we also, I don't feel like we fully investigate the car and water scene. Well, we really wanted to talk about how they start the sports car after it is flooded. That shit is flooded. That shit is not starting. Yeah.

[01:39:05] But the stunt of throwing him from the car is very good. If you wanted me on my back, you could have just asked. Yes. Yes. It also is the most violent post-boob grab scene I've ever seen and the fact that they stay in it

[01:39:17] for that long is great. And then he gets stuck in the... Oh my God. And she's like twisting his wrist. Yeah, that's probably the most farcical moment. It's Vodvillian. Yes. And she's holding it onto her breath quite clearly.

[01:39:28] But also like trying to like judo flip him almost in the sand. Yeah. But the music by Michael Gore. Yeah. What did you want to say, Benny? It rules. Sometimes it was a little... Yeah, it grates sometimes. Yeah. It's well-executed. Other times you're like, what is this?

[01:39:47] He's the fame guy. Yes. He was known for fame before this. He did like the songs for fame. All the songs for fame. Right. I like that the score like sounds kind of like a jaunty like opening sitcom theme and then gets into this like very sad week.

[01:40:00] That's the thing I don't like it because it does what the movie doesn't do, which is that it tries to tell you what to feel. That was my problem. And the film never does that. The direction doesn't do it. It comes up a little loud where you're like,

[01:40:13] we're fine, we're in the scene, don't worry about it. I just think it's a banger. Like when I go to the club, I ask them to put on terms of endearment, do that needle drop, you know? So we're gonna... No, no, no, no.

[01:40:23] Can we play the box over the skin? Yeah. I think there's one other important thing we have to talk about. Yeah. That this movie weirdly has its sequel. It does have a sequel. It doesn't exist and no one talks about it. Called The Evening Star, am I correct?

[01:40:34] Correct. Yeah. Which I have not seen. Not directed by James Elbrooks? Nope. Written by James Elbrooks? But Shirley McClain's in it and guess who else is in it? Jack Nicholson. Jack Nicholson showed up for this. Insane. In 1996. Now... 1996? I don't think he... Yeah, I don't think he does.

[01:40:50] I think he's probably like one scene or something. I heard it's an extended cameo. Sure. I think it's a movie where he sleeps with the granddaughter. Boy. Because she is the other character, right? I think Juliet Lewis plays the granddaughter. It's Juliet Lewis. Juliet Lewis.

[01:41:02] Bill Paxton is in it which is... I'm all for. Yeah, sure. Any Texan drama like I want Bill Paxton. Miranda Richardson. Nice. Like it's a perfectly good cast. And what's her name weirdly got a Golden Globe nomination for that movie? What's her name? What's her name?

[01:41:17] Who's the other person in the cast? Juliet Lewis. Miranda Richardson? No, not really. I'm going to find out for you in one second. From the Partridge family. What's the name of the person? Marion Ross. From Happy Days. Happy Days. Yes, of course. Yes.

[01:41:30] She's in The Young Girls too. Mrs. C. Got nominated for best supporting actress for that movie which came out and bombed really fucking hard. It did. It did get us a Society of Texas Film Critic Award nomination for Shirley McClane. A Lone Star? Exactly.

[01:41:45] I want to watch it now. I really do. I kind of do too. It's similar length. It's 130 minutes. It was directed by someone called Robert Harling who was the guy who had written Steel Magnolias, but he had never made him, directed a movie.

[01:42:00] He also wrote The First Wives Club and Soap Dish. So he was, you know, he had his lane. Lady movies. Can we talk about the other secret sauce of this movie? Because there's a figure if you go deep on 70s and 80s cinema who keeps on

[01:42:12] popping up in the right places. Richard Marks? Pauli Platt. Oh yeah, Pauli Platt. Pauli Platt, who was married to Peter Bogdanovich when he made good movies. And when he left her for were Simple Shepherd, he started making bad movies. Wow.

[01:42:28] And he, she was there for many big American filmmakers first films as a production designer eventually became a producer and became a big partner at Gracie Films, James LaBerks' company. What was there for this? Say anything? Yep.

[01:42:42] Bottle Rocket was kind of this like quiet hand to a lot of those people. She was always out of the spotlight. There's very little like sort of footage of her interviews with her, but everyone has always cited her as this like insane kind of guiding force for

[01:42:54] all these careers. And then they all kind of moved past her and then very often would not make reach the same heights they did when she was with them. I'm so shocked by that narrative. Right? That's so surprising to me in every way.

[01:43:06] Pauli Platt's a really fucking interesting figure. If someone writes a whole fucking book about at some point. I know. That'll... Two sarcasm points. I don't feel like those are good points. Those are good points. No, they're good. This movie opened number two at the box office on 260 screens.

[01:43:21] And Return of the Jedi was number one? No, Return of the Jedi is already departed theaters. When does it come out? It's November 25th. Okay, so it's Thanksgiving. It expands the next week. Okay. It opens number two to $3.4 million. Huge. Sure. It's going to gross 108, I think. Domestic?

[01:43:42] Which today would be like 300. 300. They made it for what, eight? Yes. Yes, it did quite well. That's pretty crazy at a time when it's like, okay, we open on 260 screens. Right. We make a hair under four. This movie is looking pretty good.

[01:43:55] We're halfway back to making our budget back. Yeah, right. And it's definitely going to win all the major Oscars. Right. Number one is a family cult classic. Oh. Embarrassing confession. I've never seen this film. It's a family cult classic. Have you seen this? Of course.

[01:44:12] Yeah, because that's the kind of reaction you usually get when you see it. I've never seen it. It's a holiday movie. Holiday movie. It's not Christmas vacation, is it? No. You were close. Christmas story. Boom. Open at number one? Really? This is its third week and last week...

[01:44:27] No, this is second week. It opened at number three, rose to number one. You've never seen a Christmas story? Isn't that crazy? Yeah. I'm shocked. Yeah. So like one Christmas classic I've never seen it. Is it a choice at this point? Are you abstaining?

[01:44:40] No, I just never knew that this was the thing. And then suddenly when I was a little older, I realized like everyone loves this movie. And every network marathons it on Christmas? I was gonna say, David's offense, it's not like they ever show it on TNT.

[01:44:52] There aren't a lot of opportunities for him to watch it. All right. Well, I really did not want to do this, but I did grow up in another country. David, you can't drop a bombshell on this late in an episode. We would need 45 minutes to dig into this.

[01:45:06] What are you talking about? Well, like Canada, right? Our neighbors next door, Canada. They would show this movie to Canada. They would show this in Canada. So what are you saying? In Britain. Britain. What? I grew up in London. You know that. I told you a million times.

[01:45:18] I've never, I've known this podcast ever. It's a bit we've run this podcast ever. Five years I've known this man. One of my best friends. He's really fancy. I'm very fancy. Anyway, this movie is nothing to British people, so I think that might be part of it.

[01:45:27] I can attest to that. I think that's the thing. I think that's the thing. I think that's the thing. I think that's the thing. This is nothing to British people, so I think that might be part of it. I can attest to that.

[01:45:36] My husband had never seen it until I watched it with him. That is true. There you go. It's just an American classic. Endless sources of disappointment. Wait, is your- He is from Britain. Yes. This is a bomb drop. I know. He's never seen Terms of Inverter. Wow.

[01:45:54] I know. Hey, can I tell you something? That's crazy. Crazy. When when my insane Shirley Maclean has grandmother decided to rebrand herself as a European socialite You know who she married my biological grandfather. I don't an Englishman I'm a quarter British baby Then what do you got?

[01:46:16] I'm just the whitest Most American looks super Yeah, you just look I'm just like a mutt ready Ginger you look like an artisanal potato farmer You look like the guy to bring potatoes back. I'm seeing more dairy frankly. Oh interesting. Oh sure like from cheddar

[01:46:37] Okay, I make cheese perhaps perhaps. I wouldn't be into that. She's good strong cheddar Cheese man, but she's man a monger if you will he's longer different thing different from on GA I always thought Christmas story bomb when I leave it's the seller. Yeah, it made 20 million dollars

[01:46:54] Which is not great. No, but I thought it like did nothing and then the cult came later But I guess it did okay. Okay, okay number three at the box office is one of the other movies That was nominated for best picture this year

[01:47:07] It's another movie that they probably just wouldn't make a movie of any more It would probably be a TV show there wouldn't anything I don't think so. I got a famous soundtrack Famous as famous as terms of endearment sound more more my mother owns this soundtrack

[01:47:22] Was it vinyl was it a musical or not? No, it was one of those early movies with a soundtrack Had all these rockets and people actually bought it big chill big chill. Oh big Motown soundtrack

[01:47:33] Yes, and that's a great one because they used to have a place in New York called the Motown Cafe Sure, which my dad loved because my dad's all about Motown It was like a horrible like hard rock place

[01:47:47] But my dad liked it because they had guys come out and pretend to be the temptations And so I would just look at all these like framed record albums they had and I also be like What are these white people doing on the wall?

[01:47:58] Like it was like all these great Motown records and then the big chill was like prominently displayed and I was like William Hurt did a Motown record. Yeah, he did he did he did that's right He did a Motown record and it was called the big chill

[01:48:10] But it was a very custom huge album huge album big movie Chill big hurt real big chill. Yeah number four Is a franchise film that is technically not part of the franchise that it is part of never say never again

[01:48:25] Correct. I mean, it's a specific clue, but how else do you describe that movie the one? Bond book where the rights which I believe is Thunderball. Yes It was one of them is owned by someone else the rights were split the rights remain split

[01:48:39] Right, so there's the official bond Roger Moore Thunderball, but then the other half the right on country Thunderball, I thought no cuz it's one of the ones. Are you sure about this?

[01:48:49] Yeah, I think that's a remake of a Roger Moore one done again with Sean Karn. They did the same book twice pretty sure I'm looking up now. I've only ever seen one bond. Yes. It is the second adaptation of Thunderball

[01:49:01] Which that's insane Connery had already done. What's the bomb movie you've seen? I'm not gonna sound cool because it's casino Royale. I mean it's a good movie Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it. They did this unofficial bond movie with

[01:49:15] Sean Connery yes that came out the same year as an official bond movie right with Max von Seidow as Blofeld Yeah, and it's like Connery with like a real piece on his head. Yeah, like, you know Connery is is

[01:49:29] Ten years removed from like when he was Bond. Yes, and they're like he's back baby and he's like Like you know he's not into it And you know the title was his response when people would ask me to play Bond again

[01:49:42] That's not like something from the books. They were like you're play Bond again He was like never say never again great and then they greenlit that interview response Number five. Yes is a horror film a horror film a sequel isn't a Christian movie too. Yes. Yeah, okay

[01:49:59] It's a horror film sequel. Is it a Freddy Krueger picture? No It's a slightly lesser franchise, but does it have an iconic Big bad no no I mean it doesn't have like a this is one of those things where the environment is the big bad

[01:50:16] Is the environment a house? That's right. Is it an amityville horror? That's right. Which one though three three Hey now three oh, oh I have to get meville three D Yeah, that's right. They added another dimension I have never seen that one

[01:50:38] But I remember it is the poster is like a weird monster claw is coming out of the house which is weird They've made a lot. I've seen the first one. Yeah, I don't think I've seen any of them

[01:50:48] Right isn't the the conjuring essentially the same story but done realistically correct But there was another wasn't there another amityville basically Like the same year as conjuring It's not it wasn't called amityville Well, they did remake it like with Ryan Reynolds like ten years ago or so

[01:51:07] And there's a Jennifer Jason Lee one that went straight to Google this year last year Yes There's so many From office space whose name I can't run Livingston Right is he in the conjuring maybe the Lily Taylor Ron Livingston one Maybe it's a different One of those vehicles

[01:51:32] Yeah, but it's that's one of those stories where like it's vague enough or is like some people live in the house And they said it was spooky that like 20 different movies have gone like well

[01:51:40] It's based on a true story conjuring is not one of the ones with the Vera Farmiga. It's both They're the investigators Lily Taylor and Ron Livingston are the haunties. Yes, maybe I separated them The car two different horror movies in my mind

[01:51:54] That's the appeal of the country how can you have these yeah Both Ron Livingston and Vera Farmiga. Yeah It's also a franchise that gives you spooks and gives you a good marriage and also that's what I like about is a spin-off right

[01:52:06] Right, but the real Annabelle's a raggedy and all right We've talked about this not at all that looks spooky some of the other movies in the top 10 include the Smurfs and the Magic Flute Oh, yes All the right moves in which you see Tom Cruise's Penis

[01:52:24] It's actually not a bad movie actually not bad dick either sure the right stuff which is a great movie I think there should be more penises in film. I'm looking for equality

[01:52:34] But then I think we have to eat I will completely support that right there do need to be more penises. Yeah, I got a couple dangs Dangs I couldn't say no no way or dong and now that's your word for that's my hello fennel

[01:52:47] I kept to call penises day Griffin what do you like? I like dangs Educating Rita that's right. Yeah, it was happening in 83. We got educated Exactly Richard Pryor's concert movie here and now mm-hmm. This is like a fun week at the box office

[01:53:04] Yeah, you know what's represented there a variety of different types of film Fair enough. Yeah, that's what no, but that's what's fun because we don't get that I know Wait wait wait wait you got your your what your fucking transformers 52

[01:53:19] You know what I'm saying thing at the box office. Well, don't take it with Marvel and DC. That is true We do have some variety there good point. Yeah, how could anyone object? Yeah? Yeah, you get both black widow and black panther

[01:53:32] Very different types of characters. Yep. Yeah, that's it. I mean I'm done Yeah, it's a good movie and it's frustrating to walk What terms and a conversation in terms of endearment about Marvel and yeah, we did let's bring it back around

[01:53:46] Let's do that. Yeah, is there any filmmaker now? Who could make this movie that could make this kind of movie is it about possible? I guess avatar. Yeah, but I feel like oh Moving that direction I think he failed

[01:54:02] But he might not make a movie as good as terms of endearment, but he would make this movie He would make this kind of a movie like a fairly plotless Movie about people All of the things that we found revolutionary about it

[01:54:13] Yeah, he would not do because it would be about as you say mediocre pot smoking white guys Like falling into opportunity They fuck up but then still somehow get it back again, right? Because all works out of the end because heroes Yeah, yeah heroes

[01:54:28] No, but like the big sick is like the closest to get to this kind of thing and even it doesn't have the courage to go as Emotional, you know as this I mean the big six pretty emotional I mean she's sick. Yeah, she and it's a big set

[01:54:42] I mean, I'll I'll be topical and say like Lady Bird has qualities That's an indie movie, but yes, okay sure sure But like just in the senses that we discussed like she has sexual experiences with various people and it's not

[01:54:58] It's not what the movies about the movies about there's not repercussions Is that are you're just only funny without being jokey? Yeah, and it also sort of explores this kind of like imperfect dynamic between her and her mother

[01:55:10] And it's weird how we're still drawn to the people that we are desperate to get away from yes. Yeah, it is weird to me that when morons Discounter right off Lady Bird. They're like, yeah, but it's like slice just about a girl in high school

[01:55:21] Right, and I feel like to some stupid degree. Yeah To some stupid degree terms of endearment needed like the big bad of cancer in the last 15 minutes in order to be like That's like a serious movie

[01:55:35] Validates presence because I think this movie won the Oscar, but it also won like every critics award Like it was a universally a critic's favorite Like everyone was down with it And I think if it had just been a well-observed mother and daughter relationship through the ages movie

[01:55:49] Yeah, they might have been like yeah, I mean it's well written but come on like it's a screenplay winner Not a picture winner right um which is what Lady Bird is probably gonna be pigeonholed at but these films Yeah, they don't get made at the studio level and

[01:56:00] Apatow was seemed like he was trying to do it But he hasn't made a fucking talkie in a couple years. Well, he made train wreck that was his last one couple years Yeah, and he's at 14. Yeah. He said he has a hard time getting films made down

[01:56:12] I believe it like that's why he's been doing more TV And then the films he's been producing have been indies because even at the studio level He's like I don't think I could get rides made green lit today

[01:56:21] That's pretty weird considering that he made train wreck which is not a particularly good movie made Which but it was a huge hit yeah So that's weird like he's been working less on his own films and yeah, he's been doing a lot of like alright

[01:56:34] What about you? What's your story? The people he's mentoring. He's like let's go to HBO rather than let's go to Universal It's it's kind of a Disperity, it's also just stupid. It's just bad business like a movie like Lady Bird. That's like an incredibly profitable movie Yeah, oh

[01:56:49] Fuck what's the guy? He's a British A comedy actor director Richard Are you why yeah? Yeah, did you see the movie about coming of age summer? Yeah, that is so good and that's a great reason this vein a little bit

[01:57:05] Yes, you know that movie. I haven't no movie is it's outstanding I feel like that's one of those ones that always goes by on Netflix, you know, yeah, definitely worth watching People making films that was funded with like British government money

[01:57:16] Right, yeah, and even like I wish fucking Lady Bird was a movie that made a hundred and fifty million dollars You know a lot of money. Yeah, and I'm not discounting its success Yeah But it would be nice if a movie like that wasn't pigeonholed as like oh

[01:57:29] That's a good for an indie and was allowed to play like at the same level as right when dramas used to fucking make The same amount of money is like action movies I'm a baby boy I know that's why we do television speaking of the tick season 1b

[01:57:46] It's already happened get ready the last time you're gonna see me not be swole Fair enough. Do you need a trainer? Yeah, you want to get thick? Do you want to smoke cigarettes? Yeah, and

[01:57:57] Do push-ups and I'll yell at you. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan. That is how I you know That's how you lose weight Val do you have anything else in the can? Well, I don't know when it's being released yet. I just worked on a film

[01:58:14] Very independent film as well called inherit the viper. Okay. Yeah in Alabama. That's very good really good cast About the sort of opioid epic epidemic. Hey. Yeah stuff and No, I'm doing a bunch of work with my theater company in the spring on

[01:58:31] Plugging I'll plug a benefit. I'm gonna plug a benefit I'm producing a benefit on March 30th in Red Hook. I think this coming out in April. No, I think it's coming Really? No, no it is shit. Do I have enough time? Yes. Yeah

[01:58:44] This comes out March 19th. Hey, yeah. Okay March 30th In Red Hook at a teleurge cut We're having a second annual benefit this year It's gonna It's going to go to the Times Up Legal Defense Fund and it's gonna be diverse artists from all over New York

[01:59:00] It's a big concert event. It's also gonna be storytellers poets speakers whatnot stuff like that everyone so I will go go and Have a beautiful healing raging evening and just will raise money for times up and if I can get sappy for a second Hey, we go

[01:59:15] I've said this to you a lot and you always brush it off and tell me not to say this He's gonna get weird now. I'm gonna get weird. I would not have gotten cast if it weren't for you Wow

[01:59:25] You were the first person cast on the tape. I set his lines from behind him She was feeding them to me dragged up the style through Val was the first person cast on the tick because you you are in pilot season a very hot commodity Okay

[01:59:41] No, and then you auditioned early and they want to cast the tick first and then Arthur and then I was almost the tick I was so close right because they want just put a pin in you. They want to call this So when I was in

[01:59:55] And and certain hot year ups were worried to hire someone who as a was as negative famous as I am Well, it's just the poison of anti-renewal sure. Yeah, yes

[02:00:08] Right the final thing to sort of sell them on me being able to do the show because there wasn't a tick yet was to do the dot and Arthur scenes with the two of us together and

[02:00:17] You are a New York person as I am you agreed to fly out to LA in order to read with me and In between the takes when we were filming we started comparing notes on how pale we are

[02:00:26] That's why we were cast and they sent that to the network and said look how much they already seem like siblings No, they're so pasty, but also also I think genuinely

[02:00:35] I did a better job in that audition I'd ever done before because Val is the absolute easiest person the world to act with Has that insane Deborah winger thing I will say it shut up Forever gonna be the Deborah winger thing you just do

[02:00:56] Until filming starts me like all right. All right, we're quitting we're quitting She also shoves you right before the shot starts right before they call action. She shoves you I do hate you too hard sometimes you hit me very hard

[02:01:07] No, the fight was weirdly was me saying it's fine. Please let her keep hitting me that makes it sound weird now But do you remember like on set they'd be like you're punching too hard and we had to be like no

[02:01:17] This is how like siblings like fight. Well, there was a lot of discussion There were a lot of discussion about getting to be angry. Yes. Yeah But but you you make acting very easy because you like literally have never had a false

[02:01:29] Moment it's it's insane watching you like take after take after take even if you try wildly different things They're always spot on that's very crazy good. I appreciate it because it's really a struggle to work with you Yeah, it is very difficult

[02:01:40] The main compliment I can give is that Val makes it look like I can kind of act It's honestly I think it's the fact that you just inherently as a human and it's not true now I know it's not fucking true

[02:01:50] But you you have a stability to convince everyone around you that you need to be protected And so everyone therefore protects you and that's that is a very canny observation He's fine And she says that during interviews good people shouldn't feel You're the best actor ever Yeah, sure

[02:02:16] And the greatest podcast guest in the history of podcasting. That's right. Yeah take that Wow Gallagher on WTN boy Where are you going shots fired? Yep And and look what what an incredible start to a filmography what incredible start to a mini series. Yep clearly

[02:02:35] I can't wait to hear the as good as it gets episode It's mostly about The wild episode Lotta lotta lot of tangents A lot of Star Wars talking That might improve it though You know what as good as it gets needed a little more Star Wars

[02:02:54] Yeah, yeah as good as it gets hers I would call it just good enough I Like it more than you do. I like it. I think I'm with you We haven't discussed it, but I think I'm thinking I make my case on that episode probably

[02:03:08] I can't remember mostly we talk about Star Wars. It's more of a case for general Radice. Yeah exactly RIP. Yeah Thank you very much for listening. Please remember to rate review subscribe

[02:03:17] Thanks to Andrew for good for social media Joe Bonapet rounds for artwork lay among coming for a theme song March Madness boy things are burning up of course this week. We all know that and G golly whiz what about All right

[02:03:34] And let's talk about the ding of this filmmaker Dang dang you already messed it up. Now you can say ding or damn. No, I what if I call him ding-dangs? Sure, okay great Go to red the blanky subreddit blankies dot red dot com for some real nerdy shit

[02:03:51] Ben do you have something to say? Stay tuned for a Burger report. Oh, yeah, we're gonna start throwing them at the end of episodes Yeah, we've been doing it so you'll hear him there

[02:04:00] But just know so you don't delete the file before you get to that nice juicy burger report I didn't baby. Oh Val. Well, you've worked with some big people. Yeah, you're a mover and shaker within the film industry

[02:04:11] Yeah, yeah, we like to collect reports of people who have seen a famous true famous person famous person Yes, like you a burger Have you ever had a party on set right scene of FAMO eat a burger could be turkey Could be lame could be cheese. Oh

[02:04:32] Could be Sanchez Sliders included I'm saying I know slider, but it was not Like there are more famous people from I'm tracking my brain for memories of Kevin Bacon eating burgers

[02:04:45] Well, so my question about all my thought you might bring up Kevin Bacon and I wanted to know if David's favorite actor My favorite actor there was bacon on the burger. I Never seen him eat a burger. He's a very fit man. Sure. He is very trim

[02:04:59] Yes fit man, but I did see James pure for you Yeah, most most most famous people bring their own food I mean Like a knife and fork probably yeah No, it's a two bite but somehow there's never any condiment on his fingers or his face

[02:05:27] That's the pure foie-match. I went to a party the other night where I ate a slider had so much grease on it I Then I ordered a gin and tonic and I use the ice from the gin and tonic to wash

[02:05:38] The line from the bathroom was too long great And then someone came up to me was like hi, I'm the president of the network and I had to act like I was an adult See you see how he's orchestrating this performance this performance making everyone

[02:05:53] I'm very aware of Griffin's whole persona. He's never even seen an ice cube with unwashed with one He grew up in Manhattan. I use a fancy boy downtown Griffin. Yes Anyway, so so your report is I have seen James purr-foy eat a slider

[02:06:08] I do know that one can put bacon on a burger, but I don't know if you can put a burger in a bacon Yes, sure. Yeah, I Can't And as always Watch out for those ding-dongs baby You did it wrong again

[02:06:37] Thank you for calling the burger report hotline 802 eight burger Please leave a message with your FAMO type of burger and location And we will try to put it on the podcast if we can that's 802 eight burger Hi, this is Travis from Knoxville, Tennessee

[02:06:55] Right before death proof came out Quentin Tarantino came into a restaurant that I worked at cafe paper in downtown Knoxville, which Apparently Quentin Tarantino went to high school in Knoxville. That's why he puts a bunch of like Tennessee or Knoxville

[02:07:17] Shit in all his movies. He was apparently like they're filming some Footage for where they picked the girls pick up the car and he came into our restaurant

[02:07:28] We used to do a burger special on Mondays for a six-dollar burger like a classic burger with like a nice cheddar cheese Like thick ground mustard And he was there, but it was really cool That's it When I was in Austin, Texas

[02:07:52] I was an editorial intern for one Terence Malick and his production company is and One time usually we would get salads and wraps and healthy things one time We got P Terry's which is a local Austin burger chain. And yes

[02:08:06] I saw Terence Malick eat a cheeseburger kind of confirm if there was any Wind blowing or a cereal monologue, but sure ate that burger like a champ. So that's my thing Do report This is nothing to do with anything

[02:08:23] But I just felt the need to tell you and for the world to know that Terence Malick Loves Diane word the band, you know the band that was in chappy Loves them seriously like one of his favorite bands and it's so cool

[02:08:39] And I want everyone to know that so and yes, he does in fact really really loves Zulander Both those things are true. All right, that's all I just wanted to share