What if there was a 13th Warrior? What if there was a version of Beowulf so grounded in reality that the climactic battle with Grendel just kind of felt like a shrug? What if Antonio Banderas was the lead in Gladiator instead of Russell Crowe? We’re just asking questions! Filmmaker David Lowery makes his long-awaited return to the podcast to talk about John McTiernan’s Michael Crichton adaptation, a movie that should have kept the title of the original book - Eaters of the Dead. Such a sick title! Anyway, prepare yourself for plenty of Banderas talk, a loving deep-dive into the famous “Banderas learns the Viking language” scene, and a reveal of some Blank Check-related easter eggs in Lowery’s filmography (!).
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[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin amp, David, Blank Check with Griffin amp, David, Don't know what's
[00:00:10] the say or two aspects.
[00:00:12] All you need to know is that the aim of the show is Blank Check.
[00:00:22] Mercifully Father, I've squandered my days with plans many things.
[00:00:26] This was not the moment.
[00:00:28] At this moment, I beg only to live the next few minutes well.
[00:00:32] For all we ought to have thought and have not thought.
[00:00:35] All we ought to have said and have not said.
[00:00:37] All we ought to have done and have not done.
[00:00:40] I pray the God for a podcast.
[00:00:43] That's good.
[00:00:45] For forgiveness, right?
[00:00:46] That's what he's...
[00:00:47] Correct.
[00:00:48] Correct.
[00:00:49] I liked it because I talked about saying stuff and not saying stuff.
[00:00:51] At the end of the day, isn't that what podcasting is about?
[00:00:53] I was also thinking you could include like when he's introducing himself.
[00:00:57] He's all his names and who, you know, the lineage you could have slipped podcast into
[00:01:02] that.
[00:01:03] Do any accent felt gay me to begin with?
[00:01:05] I don't think I also want to do.
[00:01:07] Antonio Benderes with a Spanish accent listing muzzle names.
[00:01:12] Yes, right.
[00:01:13] Right.
[00:01:14] Well...
[00:01:15] I consider doing the tagline for this one.
[00:01:17] Do you know what the tagline for this film is?
[00:01:20] Go ahead.
[00:01:21] An ordinary man.
[00:01:22] Dot dot dot.
[00:01:23] An extraordinary journey.
[00:01:24] Wait, he's not ordinary.
[00:01:26] No.
[00:01:27] But the plot of 34 years is not like some Joe Schmo got mixed up with a bunch of Vikings.
[00:01:33] Like he's extraordinary.
[00:01:35] An extraordinary journey with the exclamation point too makes it sound like this movie is
[00:01:40] like Star Kid or something.
[00:01:41] It's very fun.
[00:01:42] It's an adventure for the whole family.
[00:01:44] But also look at...
[00:01:45] I mean, we'll talk about...
[00:01:46] A few movies have gotten dumped harder than this one.
[00:01:49] But this poster that comes out with this bastardized title, right?
[00:01:55] The tagline's like an afterthought.
[00:01:57] Antonio Benderes and huge letters that almost equally large letters from the author of
[00:02:01] Jurassic Park and the director of Die Heart.
[00:02:04] That's what they had.
[00:02:05] Right.
[00:02:06] So they really leaned on that.
[00:02:07] And then the pull quote is just exhilarating action adventure.
[00:02:11] I'm sorry.
[00:02:12] Exilarating adventure thriller Entertainment Weekly which was like the one A plus review
[00:02:17] from Lisa.
[00:02:18] Lucie Schwarzenegger loved it.
[00:02:20] But also that quote sounds more like a description of what the film is trying to be than even
[00:02:25] praise.
[00:02:26] Completely.
[00:02:27] Yeah, it's just a literal description of something you will experience perhaps while watching
[00:02:31] a real action adventure thriller.
[00:02:34] There's also...
[00:02:35] There's two posters.
[00:02:36] One says, you know how...
[00:02:37] Oh sure.
[00:02:38] Below the credits.
[00:02:39] Yes.
[00:02:40] It'll be like X on this date.
[00:02:42] So one says fear reigns August 13th.
[00:02:44] Okay.
[00:02:45] So the other one says defy fear October 28th.
[00:02:52] So I guess these are two...
[00:02:54] What was the original original really state?
[00:02:56] Does it say anywhere?
[00:02:58] It was 1998.
[00:03:00] We'll talk about it.
[00:03:03] It must be in our dossier because yes, but at what point does marketing go from be afraid
[00:03:09] to defy fear?
[00:03:10] No, I'm scared of you motherfuckers.
[00:03:14] I'm looking at this poster you're talking about, David.
[00:03:17] It's interesting also that the shift is like now on this one from the author of Jurassic
[00:03:21] Park and the director of die heart is bigger than Benderis' name, almost bigger than
[00:03:26] the title.
[00:03:27] And then the tagline is almost hidden.
[00:03:30] This poster sucks.
[00:03:32] The one that's just his eye in the boat.
[00:03:35] Yeah.
[00:03:36] It's kind of evocative, but it's not the kind of poster where I'm like, I gotta see Antonio
[00:03:42] Benderis's eye in a boat.
[00:03:44] I guess it is a great poster for a movie called the 13th Warrior and not...
[00:03:49] That's kind of a good teaser poster from the shoot thought, David.
[00:03:53] Oh, it's not a good poster for a movie that should have definitely still been called
[00:03:57] Eaters of the Dead which is a great title.
[00:04:00] Yeah.
[00:04:01] Why didn't they call an teaser of the dead?
[00:04:03] I mean, in the dossier.
[00:04:04] Okay, we'll get to it.
[00:04:05] Yeah, I'm excited to find out.
[00:04:07] Let me answer just because there are a lot of thoughts on it.
[00:04:10] But the anecdote that is told is that Michael Crichton was watering his lawn and his next
[00:04:16] door neighbor was like, so you...
[00:04:18] Any more movies coming out of your books?
[00:04:19] And he's like, yeah, one of my early books they're making, Eaters of the Dead.
[00:04:22] And he's like, what is that?
[00:04:23] Some sort of B-Hooray.
[00:04:24] It sounds like a zombie movie or whatever.
[00:04:26] And Crichton turned around called Disney and was like, we need a classy title.
[00:04:30] My neighbor thinks it sounds schlocky.
[00:04:32] And I can see that, but at the same time, I'm like, your book is called Eaters of the
[00:04:36] Dead.
[00:04:37] Yeah.
[00:04:38] And everything on the fact that you wrote, we write bestsellers.
[00:04:41] Maybe we should use the title of your book.
[00:04:43] Yes.
[00:04:44] Yes.
[00:04:45] Also, Eaters of the Dead is Razer, you know?
[00:04:46] The Rad is Hell title.
[00:04:47] Yeah, it's cooler.
[00:04:48] It's cooler.
[00:04:49] Is nothing.
[00:04:50] Well, what if there were...
[00:04:51] One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, eleven, twelve warriors.
[00:04:54] That's the only one who's working.
[00:04:55] That's the only one who's working.
[00:04:56] Right.
[00:04:57] It sounds like it's going to be about an unlucky warrior.
[00:04:59] And it's like, is that what it is?
[00:05:01] No, there were twelve.
[00:05:03] He's the 13th.
[00:05:04] Right.
[00:05:05] If it was Leslie Nielsen as the 13th warrior, I'd be like, sounds funny.
[00:05:08] This guy's going to fall off the boat.
[00:05:10] He's got his little fart machine when they're having their...
[00:05:13] They're important.
[00:05:14] They're making me hate you.
[00:05:15] Yeah, yeah.
[00:05:16] Wait a...
[00:05:17] What do I smell?
[00:05:21] We've talked about how Leslie Nielsen's gravestone just says letter rip.
[00:05:24] Yes.
[00:05:25] Does it?
[00:05:26] Yes, it does.
[00:05:27] It's priceless.
[00:05:28] I mean, there are multiple stories of other celebrities meeting Leslie Nielsen and him
[00:05:31] activating a woppy cushion or fart machine that he had on his person.
[00:05:35] Never looked only at him.
[00:05:36] Right.
[00:05:37] And he would do it in interviews.
[00:05:39] And he'd be like, that's why I discovered it with all the interviews and it is incredible
[00:05:42] to watch.
[00:05:43] It's masterful.
[00:05:46] This is Blankcheck.
[00:05:47] Go ahead.
[00:05:48] But this is Blankcheck with Griffin and David.
[00:05:49] I'm Griffin.
[00:05:50] It's a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their
[00:05:54] careers and are given a series of Blankchicks make whatever crazy passion projects they want.
[00:05:59] Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby.
[00:06:02] Today we were talking about...
[00:06:04] It's hard to prove these things with Hollywood accounting and such.
[00:06:10] This by some accounts is the biggest money loser in the history of Hollywood.
[00:06:16] I feel like this movie was in record books at a certain point.
[00:06:19] At the time, I think it was definitively given that title.
[00:06:22] Now a couple, only two movies have maybe surpassed it.
[00:06:26] I think it's now also hard.
[00:06:28] But adjusted for inflation, it may be beats them.
[00:06:30] Yeah.
[00:06:31] There are two movies that most people cite as losing more money than this film.
[00:06:37] Since this movie or...
[00:06:38] Yeah, they're both in the last ten years.
[00:06:40] Two don't have years.
[00:06:41] No, okay.
[00:06:42] So remember that was a big one, obviously.
[00:06:43] There are two huge Disney flops failed by John Carter.
[00:06:47] Correct.
[00:06:48] Yeah.
[00:06:49] By most accounting number one.
[00:06:53] And okay.
[00:06:54] Disney.
[00:06:55] Why?
[00:06:56] I feel like this is obvious and I'm not thinking of it.
[00:07:00] Marlons in the top ten.
[00:07:04] Makes sense.
[00:07:05] Not really.
[00:07:06] RL2 probably is up there, but not that one.
[00:07:07] I think it made so much a little...
[00:07:09] Those deputies would kind of...
[00:07:11] But what's the one that cost so much?
[00:07:14] Loan Ranger?
[00:07:15] Correct, yes.
[00:07:16] Right.
[00:07:17] So most people...
[00:07:18] It's not so much that it costs so much.
[00:07:19] It's that it barmed so definitively as well.
[00:07:21] Yeah, but it also cost so much.
[00:07:23] Yeah.
[00:07:24] Well they had like a trainer.
[00:07:25] And famously cost more and more and more where they're like Disney's.
[00:07:27] Like we will not greenlight this movie unless you hit this number.
[00:07:29] And then they...
[00:07:30] Yeah.
[00:07:31] Like we hit it and then they greenlit it and then they instantly went past it.
[00:07:33] Yeah, correct.
[00:07:34] But yeah, this might be the greatest loser of all time.
[00:07:36] This is a mini series on the films of John McTernan.
[00:07:41] Today we were talking about the 13th Warrior.
[00:07:43] Yes.
[00:07:44] What's the measure he's called?
[00:07:46] It's called a pod hard with a venge cast.
[00:07:49] Oh good.
[00:07:50] It has to be.
[00:07:51] Yeah, that's fine.
[00:07:52] Yeah.
[00:07:53] This is one of the few where you could have just called it podcast and gotten away with
[00:07:57] it.
[00:07:58] We could.
[00:07:59] Yeah, that would have been nice actually.
[00:08:01] Yeah.
[00:08:02] I'm just looking...
[00:08:03] All right, so like full disclosure, we're recording this episode out of order and it is our
[00:08:07] first mcube.
[00:08:08] We got a great guest for turning.
[00:08:09] He's in town after far too long absent.
[00:08:13] And so we're recording this one far in advance to take advantage of him being here running
[00:08:17] the marathon.
[00:08:18] How are your legs feeling?
[00:08:19] My legs feel great.
[00:08:20] David Lowers here.
[00:08:21] The great David.
[00:08:22] What was your time?
[00:08:23] Front of the show.
[00:08:24] Three hours and 49 minutes.
[00:08:25] Right here at the green nights.
[00:08:26] That's really good.
[00:08:27] I felt ghost stories.
[00:08:28] That's really good about it.
[00:08:29] That's really good.
[00:08:30] That's impressive.
[00:08:31] Thank you.
[00:08:32] Last podcast hero.
[00:08:35] Yeah, none of the other...
[00:08:37] I mean, just die hurt with the vengeance is one of the best titles ever.
[00:08:40] It really is.
[00:08:41] They really...
[00:08:42] That's the era of...
[00:08:45] You can't just put a number on it anymore like Batman forever.
[00:08:49] Yes.
[00:08:50] Like everyone just turned around and be like how do we solve the sequel title?
[00:08:52] And it didn't...
[00:08:53] It was pre-catch it up.
[00:08:54] Yeah.
[00:08:55] Like there were very few titles with Colin at that point.
[00:08:57] Two fans.
[00:08:58] Who do you think you are?
[00:08:59] No, no, no.
[00:09:00] Next karate kid.
[00:09:01] I'm trying to think of other titles like that.
[00:09:03] But it also somehow the title invokes the spirit of the movie which is like, McTurnen
[00:09:07] is back.
[00:09:08] There's a real punchiness.
[00:09:09] There's a real punchiness.
[00:09:10] The proper die hard sequel.
[00:09:12] Die Hard 2 was die hard on a plane.
[00:09:13] This one is New Gruber, original director.
[00:09:18] We're dying hard with a vengeance.
[00:09:19] New Gruber.
[00:09:20] That's a great term.
[00:09:21] New Gruber.
[00:09:22] New Gruber, new rules.
[00:09:25] The Podmos cast affair.
[00:09:29] Yeah, well looks like we have to change our plans.
[00:09:32] No, it's pod hard with a vengeance cat.
[00:09:34] There's no pod hard with a revenge cast.
[00:09:36] There's no equivocating on this.
[00:09:38] I'm not equivocating at all.
[00:09:40] I'm thrilled with our title and I'm thrilled we're doing John McTurnen but it is funny
[00:09:43] that we are beginning with the movie that exploded his career into smithereens.
[00:09:47] Correct.
[00:09:48] Not that he didn't then make more movies.
[00:09:50] Yeah.
[00:09:52] But it is the end of him as a successful filmmaker, correct?
[00:09:56] The lunatics.
[00:09:57] Correct.
[00:09:58] Well, let's get into it.
[00:09:59] Let's get into it.
[00:10:00] Let's get into it.
[00:10:01] Did he do what was between die hard with a vengeance and this?
[00:10:02] The Thomas Crown affair.
[00:10:03] Wait, I thought that was after.
[00:10:05] No, this is before.
[00:10:06] Well, this is the same year.
[00:10:08] Yeah.
[00:10:09] So I guess he made it after.
[00:10:10] Thomas came out before.
[00:10:11] Yes.
[00:10:12] He came out before.
[00:10:13] It's so weird.
[00:10:14] He makes Thomas Crown when he's basically washed his hands of this movie.
[00:10:17] Yes.
[00:10:18] And Criton's taken over and the studios have taken over.
[00:10:21] And then Thomas Crown comes out three weeks before this.
[00:10:23] It's like late July and this is early August.
[00:10:25] First week of August, last week of August.
[00:10:27] They're in the same month.
[00:10:28] It's my question not to spoil anything but when we get to the box office game, I'm so
[00:10:31] curious to see because Thomas Crown was like a sleeper and it lived.
[00:10:35] Yeah.
[00:10:36] We'll talk about that.
[00:10:37] They both have to be in the top ten at the same time.
[00:10:39] We'll talk about it.
[00:10:40] Okay.
[00:10:41] We'll talk about that.
[00:10:42] But right, I guess you're right that he does.
[00:10:43] It's not like making this movie saps him of all his energies because he makes Thomas Crown
[00:10:48] right after and it's great.
[00:10:49] It's successful.
[00:10:50] Well, well, regardless.
[00:10:51] He would have been beyond cooked if this came out but it's because he has that that he
[00:10:57] can then make too much.
[00:10:58] And that Thomas Crown is doing well in theaters at the same time where they're like look 13
[00:11:02] warriors just lost so much money but the movie he made after that is making a profit
[00:11:06] for a different studio.
[00:11:07] The guy hasn't totally lost it but then Rolabal and that kills him.
[00:11:14] Rolabal kills him.
[00:11:15] Basic was didn't do well but Rolabal is the true bomb.
[00:11:18] Right.
[00:11:19] Leave him a big budget for Rolabal and then that's another, this is held for years.
[00:11:24] It's constantly reshot and re-cut.
[00:11:26] A fascinating career.
[00:11:28] The scoundrels and perverts on letterbox saw you log this movie, Sims.
[00:11:34] And said, maternity confirmed and they were like, first of all, David just watches it.
[00:11:38] Second of all, what possible reason would they have for starting with 13th or year?
[00:11:44] Well, if you were logging any other maternity movie we'd think it was confirmed and this
[00:11:48] might just be David on some weird shit.
[00:11:51] But I messaged you, Lowry.
[00:11:53] Yes.
[00:11:54] You were coming into New York to do the marathon and I said we should get you on an episode
[00:11:58] we're doing McTiernan and your response was I think I want to get the exact quote here.
[00:12:04] 13th warrior is something I talk about with odd frequency for a movie I haven't seen since
[00:12:08] it opened.
[00:12:10] And this is true.
[00:12:12] Have you had this experience griffin because I have?
[00:12:16] I have mentioned this movie to a couple of people since we decided on this podcast.
[00:12:20] Sure, privately in confidence.
[00:12:21] And they have said like, oh yeah, love 13th warrior and I mean, it would be like what?
[00:12:26] What do you mean?
[00:12:27] And they're like, why?
[00:12:28] I saw it when I was a kid and it was kind of cool.
[00:12:29] Haven't seen it since.
[00:12:30] It's not good.
[00:12:31] Have you had that experience?
[00:12:33] I think I've had one person say that two separate people like, oh yeah, 13th, that movie
[00:12:37] is fun.
[00:12:38] Can you dox them?
[00:12:39] Can you name them on my?
[00:12:40] I would never expose them like that.
[00:12:43] But I wasn't even mad at them.
[00:12:44] I was just sort of like, wait, have you seen it recently?
[00:12:46] No, no, no, no, no.
[00:12:48] I have a memory of seeing that on TV when I was 12 years old and it having like swords
[00:12:52] and shit.
[00:12:53] Like, and I had a good time watching it.
[00:12:55] That's so weird.
[00:12:56] I'm so fascinated by it.
[00:12:57] Like I was like, what is this movie's cultural footprint at all?
[00:13:01] Like am I the only person that ever thinks about it?
[00:13:03] And I will talk about why I do but I do.
[00:13:06] Okay, well, I want to know why you're coming out.
[00:13:07] I'm very curious.
[00:13:08] I just want to introduce another plot throughout forward this episode.
[00:13:11] Go ahead.
[00:13:12] Producer Ben Frisch, filling in for Ben Honsley, had to miss this recording.
[00:13:15] Hey guys.
[00:13:16] Great friend of the show.
[00:13:18] Doing us a real solid here.
[00:13:20] Ben, you went into this recording thinking that this was a different movie?
[00:13:25] Yeah, so when I was asked to come in, I thought that this was going to be the movie Warriors
[00:13:33] of Virtue.
[00:13:34] Warriors of Virtue.
[00:13:35] In my head, I'd heard you guys also think about a lot.
[00:13:37] I may have to watch Warriors of Virtue.
[00:13:39] I need to watch Warriors of Virtue.
[00:13:41] I heard you guys talk about this movie at some point.
[00:13:43] And I just remember thinking, like, geez, John McTernan's career must have taken a really
[00:13:49] strange turn to do the King of Remove.
[00:13:52] Right.
[00:13:53] So I looked it up yesterday and I was like, oh, this is a totally different movie than
[00:13:59] I was thinking.
[00:14:00] And so then I went down a rabbit hole trying to figure out what the third or what you
[00:14:04] were thinking of.
[00:14:05] Virtue was and had to search for movies with Virtue in the title and eventually I found it
[00:14:10] and through like Warrior and then kangaroo people.
[00:14:14] Yes.
[00:14:15] It's a fantasy film about a child.
[00:14:16] And I'm trying to kangaroo people who represent the elements that was funded by a Chinese
[00:14:19] toy company.
[00:14:20] I wonder, David, if the people who are saying to you, I love the 13th Warrior are making
[00:14:23] this same mistake?
[00:14:26] You never know because there were a swords and shit in Warriors of Virtue.
[00:14:29] Have you seen Warriors of Virtue?
[00:14:30] I've seen it theatrically.
[00:14:31] Why not?
[00:14:32] I thought you were about to say it.
[00:14:34] I've seen it many times.
[00:14:35] No, yeah, it's another like 13th Warrior haven't seen it since it came out.
[00:14:39] But you think often like, was that a real movie?
[00:14:41] Yeah, I'll just YouTube the trailer just to confirm that yes it was.
[00:14:45] It's just because it's like Ronnie you obviously is like a big Hong Kong director in the
[00:14:48] 80s.
[00:14:49] Is that his first English line?
[00:14:51] It's his first thing.
[00:14:52] Obviously it's sort of like that's a movie with one foot and Hong Kong and Hollywood or
[00:14:55] whatever.
[00:14:56] Then he does Bright of Chucky, the 51st state which no one remembers but it's kind of
[00:15:00] fun.
[00:15:01] Bright of Chucky rips.
[00:15:02] Bright of Chucky is great.
[00:15:03] And then Freddie versus Jason, which is like great.
[00:15:05] Got some good stuff on it.
[00:15:06] Yeah, exactly.
[00:15:07] And then fearless.
[00:15:09] Okay, that's him sort of going back to having one foot in each country.
[00:15:12] He was supposed to make snakes on a plane originally.
[00:15:15] Probably would have been great for it.
[00:15:17] Yeah, why didn't he?
[00:15:18] I don't know.
[00:15:19] I just the 51st state.
[00:15:21] But that is why Samuel Jackson signed on for snakes on a plane.
[00:15:24] He's on set for 51st state and he's like what are you working on next Ronnie?
[00:15:29] And he's like this movie it's called snakes on a plane but they want to change the title.
[00:15:33] And he's like, I'll do it if they don't.
[00:15:35] They were going to call it like flight 82.
[00:15:37] Right, yeah, yeah.
[00:15:39] The equivalent of that 13th warrior.
[00:15:40] It's just so funny.
[00:15:41] Yes, yes, that's exactly the mistake they make on this movie.
[00:15:45] Like there was this movie, there's sort of like American British movie where they
[00:15:50] were like who do people really want to team up right now?
[00:15:53] Samuel Jackson and Robert Carlisle.
[00:15:55] But guess who's wearing the kil't?
[00:15:58] Sam is because that's the whole thing in the movies he's wearing a kil't for some reason.
[00:16:02] And they're like drug chemists?
[00:16:03] Yeah, they come up.
[00:16:05] I think it's like Carlisle maybe comes up with some formula for a new drug or something.
[00:16:11] Because that's also a movie that had two different titles.
[00:16:13] I think it was really called formula 51 in America because no one in America knows the
[00:16:18] joke of a Britain being the 51st state.
[00:16:22] Sure, I guess was the thinking.
[00:16:23] Yeah, I don't know.
[00:16:24] Yeah, that is what you're excited about.
[00:16:26] I did not know that.
[00:16:27] Yeah, that's that's a British joke.
[00:16:28] I don't wait.
[00:16:29] So Ben, you saw warriors of virtue when it came out.
[00:16:34] Yeah, and it haunted you.
[00:16:36] I remember being a movie I was scared to watch as a child because I was scared of a lot
[00:16:40] of movies.
[00:16:42] And characters in costume like mascot characters and stuff like the Easter Bunny always
[00:16:47] scared me as a kid.
[00:16:48] And these are particularly scary looking creatures.
[00:16:51] Yeah, they're kind of unentent.
[00:16:53] Kangaroo anthropomorphized kangaroos.
[00:16:56] And I remember being scared of it and then watching it and then just thinking that it sucked
[00:17:01] and actually it was fine.
[00:17:02] Well, it wasn't scary.
[00:17:04] Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:05] Ben, here's the quickest version of what 13th warrior is.
[00:17:08] Right?
[00:17:09] You haven't watched it.
[00:17:10] Right.
[00:17:11] It is Antonio Menderis playing a real Muslim man who exists who was a writer, basically a
[00:17:17] travel log writer not to diminish his accomplishments.
[00:17:21] He has accounts of his travel survive.
[00:17:24] At that time, the travel log is important.
[00:17:27] Right.
[00:17:28] You know, and Antonio Menderis is playing him, right?
[00:17:30] This guy's real, his tech survive.
[00:17:32] He did different sort of Anthony Bourdain.
[00:17:34] Now I'm going to spend some time embedded with the Vikings.
[00:17:37] I'm going to go here.
[00:17:38] I'm going to do this.
[00:17:40] Michael Critein in the 70s writes a book where he combines that character with Bay Wolf.
[00:17:48] It's like, what if when that guy was traveling around, he hooked up with some Vikings and
[00:17:53] they were like, we're going to go fight Grendel?
[00:17:55] You know, he ended up being part of the Bay Wolf mission.
[00:17:58] Right.
[00:17:59] Like if Marco Polo was also like fighting dragon.
[00:18:01] Yes, but it's got kind of the Crite knee like, but I'm going to make it more grounded.
[00:18:05] It won't be monsters.
[00:18:06] It will be like monstrous people.
[00:18:07] It's like what was what gave birth to the moon?
[00:18:10] Right.
[00:18:11] What was the actual thing they were fighting?
[00:18:12] He's not a snake lady.
[00:18:13] She's a lady who hangs out with a lot of snakes.
[00:18:16] Yeah, right.
[00:18:17] And truly, it's an early Critein work, right?
[00:18:21] It's his fourth book, but he was already a big deal because then drama to strain in terminal
[00:18:27] man.
[00:18:28] Big books out of the gate, right?
[00:18:30] Like he was, he's already directing movies at this point by the time the book comes.
[00:18:34] I had written books under a different name as well.
[00:18:36] Right.
[00:18:37] That's the other thing.
[00:18:38] He wrote a bunch of, yeah, you read those?
[00:18:39] I've read none.
[00:18:40] Have you read any Critein work, so I've read, I was really into Congo when I was a little kid.
[00:18:45] I've had Congo kind of work.
[00:18:46] I love that much.
[00:18:47] And then I know I read Jurassic Park, but it's so mixed up in my memories of the movie.
[00:18:51] The movie kind of surpassed it.
[00:18:53] I famously had to put my Jurassic Park book under the bed because it's scary.
[00:18:56] So much.
[00:18:57] So I read it years ago.
[00:18:58] Which I think about all the time that I was just like under the bed.
[00:19:01] And then like months later, I found it and I was like, right, this had to go under here.
[00:19:05] Okay, I'm sorry, finish your, you read it years ago.
[00:19:07] I read it years ago that I'd yesterday.
[00:19:09] Oh, in a day?
[00:19:10] How long is it?
[00:19:11] Not only in a day.
[00:19:12] I read it.
[00:19:13] I read it yesterday.
[00:19:14] It's only 280 pages.
[00:19:15] At the Marathon Village.
[00:19:16] So you get to the, you take the bus to go into the stand what worked.
[00:19:20] Yeah, and then you just have to wait to start.
[00:19:23] And the book was short enough that I read the entire thing while waiting to start the
[00:19:25] marathon.
[00:19:26] Like Village famously horny, Marathon Village famously people reading cratons.
[00:19:31] Forgotten cratons, yes.
[00:19:33] Well, thumbs up, thumbs down.
[00:19:36] It is generally a thumbs up.
[00:19:39] It is exactly the movie.
[00:19:40] Okay.
[00:19:41] Like to the point where I'm like, I'm already curious how, like what Critan did when he
[00:19:47] took over as a director.
[00:19:48] Like what he's reshoots were.
[00:19:51] And I've got ideas, but reading the book, I was like, this is pretty much just seen
[00:19:56] for seeing exactly what's on screen.
[00:19:58] There's very little is different.
[00:20:00] The other, I mean, citing this movie alongside John Carter, right?
[00:20:05] In the scale of Disney Flops, all three movies I cited produced by the Walt Disney company
[00:20:10] Diffin Arrows.
[00:20:11] True.
[00:20:12] This of course was a touchstone.
[00:20:14] Correct.
[00:20:15] Release under touch.
[00:20:16] I mean, they're always touching stones in this movie.
[00:20:17] Concept.
[00:20:18] This is very raw.
[00:20:19] Hands.
[00:20:20] Yeah.
[00:20:21] Bloods touching stones.
[00:20:22] Stone touching blood.
[00:20:24] They, you read about the production of this movie and it feels like the type of production
[00:20:29] that then doesn't happen until 2011, 2012.
[00:20:33] And then becomes a pox upon the industry where they basically shoot the movie three times
[00:20:38] where they just like don't like it.
[00:20:41] And rather than let it go are just like we're starting over again.
[00:20:46] And so this is a movie that's basically greenlit at like $80 million and then ends up
[00:20:50] costing somewhere closer to 160.
[00:20:54] I think it's greenlit at like 60.
[00:20:56] It then goes over budget to 80 in original production and then ends up costing somewhere
[00:21:00] between 160 and 180 in total.
[00:21:04] And the most nut stat is that, not stat but not only do they do reshoots and just frighten
[00:21:09] takeover but at one point there are dueling reshoot units.
[00:21:14] We're on different stages in the same complex.
[00:21:17] McTuron is doing reshoots and Criton is doing reshoots and the cast is going back and forth
[00:21:22] between them.
[00:21:23] We just need to get as much shit as we can to figure out which of these guys can solve
[00:21:27] the movie.
[00:21:29] But the movie doesn't, well anyway, yeah, you're right.
[00:21:33] The movie does not feel like, oh my god there's two movies in here and the tone is switching
[00:21:38] so wildly or anything like that.
[00:21:40] But then again, Criton is a decent director.
[00:21:43] I don't know if you've seen a lot of Criton movies but he's made really good movies.
[00:21:46] Westworld coma.
[00:21:47] Great.
[00:21:48] Great train robbery.
[00:21:49] Westworld is fun.
[00:21:50] Runaway is at the with the select ones called.
[00:21:52] Let's see.
[00:21:53] Runaway, yes.
[00:21:54] I never saw a looker but I've seen Westworld coma great train robbery and they're fun.
[00:22:02] But they are all like it's you don't watch them think like wow this was like a master
[00:22:07] of visionary director.
[00:22:08] Exactly.
[00:22:09] Yeah, he's a well crafted fine good storyteller.
[00:22:12] Yes, journeyman director basically aided by his innate storytelling instinct some working
[00:22:17] with his own material.
[00:22:19] But he's not a visionary visual list, which is not dissimilar from McTiernan I think.
[00:22:26] McTiernan's like the god of I know how to communicate the geography of action scene and make
[00:22:32] everything clear and spatial you know stuff will be clear.
[00:22:36] Right.
[00:22:37] But yeah, I know also it doesn't have like a signature shot.
[00:22:39] There's no style for style sake.
[00:22:40] It's all function.
[00:22:42] Yeah.
[00:22:43] But has a much stronger visual intelligent.
[00:22:46] He does and I think honestly that is present in this film.
[00:22:50] Yeah, it's not like I watch this movie and I'm like oh my god like this action isn't coherent
[00:22:55] nothings you know there are other problems I have with this movie the action is mostly
[00:23:00] fine.
[00:23:01] Yeah, would you agree?
[00:23:02] I mean, talk to the tales of school.
[00:23:04] Yeah, it's like incredible or anything but like it's not like I it's fun.
[00:23:08] Yeah, it gets a job done.
[00:23:09] I know what's happening.
[00:23:10] No, there's even there's a quote that JJ pulled where McTiernan's like look there's
[00:23:14] no like lost masterpiece version of this if they gave me back the footage my cuts maybe
[00:23:18] 10 minutes different.
[00:23:21] Right.
[00:23:22] So, substantially you know he's like there's maybe 10 minutes of stuff in there that I identify
[00:23:26] as Crite and having shot and maybe 10 minutes of stuff that I shot that I would want back
[00:23:31] in the movie.
[00:23:33] But also a lot of it is like stuff he shot under increasing pressure.
[00:23:37] Yeah, as the budget started to escalate.
[00:23:40] But okay, but I okay, wait, wait, try to step back.
[00:23:44] Step back, step back, step back.
[00:23:46] Like I just remember when this came out I guess I was pro I think I was really hot on
[00:23:50] Ben Darius because of sorrow.
[00:23:52] Yeah, and obviously a new him generally but like as they 13 year olds I was like guy
[00:23:58] from sorrow.
[00:23:59] Wait, this would have come out the same year it would have come out was supposed to
[00:24:02] yeah, but it came up the year.
[00:24:04] Because we're also was delayed was it?
[00:24:07] Obviously ended up working for everybody, but I think that had production difficulties
[00:24:10] and was originally a 97 movie that went to 98.
[00:24:14] And then this was a 98 movie that went to 99.
[00:24:18] Zorro had the thing where Robert Rodriguez got fired.
[00:24:21] Right.
[00:24:22] Sort of amazing to think about him directing it like what that would have looked like
[00:24:27] and then so right they got kind of stalled by that.
[00:24:30] Then they brought on Martin Campbell and things were out of control and it went him million
[00:24:35] over budget and it was sort of like is this another cutthroat island like these movies
[00:24:40] don't work.
[00:24:41] You need so much practical shit.
[00:24:42] It's not and then of course the movie comes out and everyone loves it.
[00:24:45] Like it's one of the great movies which everyone's like thing okay 13th Warrior we can just
[00:24:49] get this across the line right in the Zorro on our hands people would love to see
[00:24:53] Vikings nodding in a bowl.
[00:24:59] It's I think I think the 13th Warrior is doomed from the outset.
[00:25:04] Yes, I think if there was a totally normal production of this movie with the same basic
[00:25:09] people involved with no fucking weird reshoots or whatever and no going well they over budget
[00:25:15] it still would not do well.
[00:25:16] No fundamentally I just don't think people have a huge appetite for this.
[00:25:19] That's what it's wild about it right?
[00:25:21] They like they double the spend on this movie when you're just like there's such a roof
[00:25:26] to how much you're ever going to get out of this.
[00:25:29] It feels wild to like treat this movie like it's the flash or whatever and say like we
[00:25:33] need this to work.
[00:25:35] We will not quit on this thing.
[00:25:37] Right.
[00:25:38] It's such a cool idea that even going back to a Crite and Zerrigeon conserved like what's
[00:25:41] the real story behind Bayoff I'm into that like that's great.
[00:25:44] I'm into the I'm into the idea of the story being told I'm into the lore of Vikings
[00:25:50] and whatnot.
[00:25:51] And I think we adapt every single thing I read in my first year of college medieval studies
[00:25:55] class.
[00:25:56] Right.
[00:25:57] This was my first year of college also and I feel like it's on wait this is also is
[00:26:00] the first time you've covered technically an adaptation of the same source material
[00:26:04] twice.
[00:26:05] Yeah sort of right has to be I don't know.
[00:26:08] It's very close like event wise to the plot of Bayoff like yeah well we've done two
[00:26:14] stars born episodes now.
[00:26:15] Right.
[00:26:16] That's the other one that will have come out and the time we're talking.
[00:26:20] Wow.
[00:26:21] But we'll have come out yes.
[00:26:23] I'm trying to think if there's like a foreign.
[00:26:26] We did a remake we've ever done or anything.
[00:26:28] Fantastic four episodes.
[00:26:29] No that doesn't count.
[00:26:30] But yes no we are doing another Bayoff movie and another Bayoff movie that kind of
[00:26:39] like was like no no we can make Bayoff work as a modern blockbuster and audiences were
[00:26:46] mostly like I don't really care.
[00:26:48] But I mean look I'm just going to serve you up the question not that you told me to
[00:26:51] ask you this right.
[00:26:53] Yeah.
[00:26:54] But like wondering like why did why does Lowry think about this movie still and talk
[00:26:57] about it and then watching it I just kept thinking the version of this I would want to see
[00:27:02] is the like Greennight style version of it.
[00:27:05] Yeah.
[00:27:06] The version of it I would want to see has a capped budget.
[00:27:08] Yes.
[00:27:09] Does not need to conform to certain expectations of like adventure blockbuster films at a
[00:27:16] certain size.
[00:27:17] I now know having gone through the process making a Greennight that the capped budget would
[00:27:21] probably scare me off now.
[00:27:22] I'm like I don't know if I have the fortitude to go through that of trying to make a medieval
[00:27:28] or a pre-medieval epic but it does appeal to me like this type of storytelling.
[00:27:33] This type of myth making and peeling back the layers of myth is always really interesting
[00:27:38] to me and to a certain extent I think every movie I've made has sort of been a date has
[00:27:43] been sort of about peeling back some level of legend to try to like expose the fallacies
[00:27:49] within.
[00:27:50] That's very high pollutant.
[00:27:51] That's kind of like what I'm interested in doing and I watching this movie again I was
[00:27:56] like I wonder if this is one of the first instances of that kind of planted that seed
[00:28:00] because I remember the scene of bully wolf is that how he goes by in this the bay wolf,
[00:28:06] the bay wolf surrogate who when he dies.
[00:28:08] But it was f**kous.
[00:28:09] Yeah.
[00:28:10] And just being like oh I'm witnessing a mortal character giving up his life and passing
[00:28:18] into legend and I thought that was captured very well.
[00:28:21] Yeah.
[00:28:22] And that moment stuck with me where he just sits there and dying is like an inherently
[00:28:28] pathetic act.
[00:28:29] It's just like a system of series of failures right.
[00:28:31] I think all dead people are cowardly.
[00:28:34] And watching the way in which people regard death is always what brings the poetry to it
[00:28:39] and I was like this is a beautiful memory reminded me of Robert and you're dying in
[00:28:44] heat.
[00:28:45] Like a character regarding someone else sitting down and dying.
[00:28:48] Or something very evocative about that.
[00:28:51] So that stuck with me but more than that the thing that really I keep thinking about over
[00:28:56] the twenty four years since it's opened is the scene where he learns their language.
[00:29:03] Best scene or a really cool idea.
[00:29:06] A really cool idea executed very well.
[00:29:08] I think you need to remake the 13th horse.
[00:29:10] Yeah.
[00:29:11] The way you were just talking about it or do readers of the dead just do it.
[00:29:15] I guess you can never know studio would touch it.
[00:29:17] Is it the rare kind of bomb?
[00:29:18] I think you use the original title.
[00:29:20] Yeah, I guess so.
[00:29:22] That's the only wiggle room to possibly make people not even realize it's connected.
[00:29:27] You could get away with it.
[00:29:29] It's more interesting like in the context now of like Vikings which I have not seen but
[00:29:34] apparently is was hugely successful.
[00:29:36] It's TV version.
[00:29:37] It went on and was like moved from one network to another and has spin off.
[00:29:43] In black sales those are the two sort of Game of Thrones adjacent period sexy violent
[00:29:48] traumas that lasted for years with huge fan bases despite no critical acclaim.
[00:29:53] And then it's really interesting to watch this now in the context of having seen the
[00:29:56] North men and which maybe did I love it.
[00:30:00] It's a masterpiece but maybe it didn't set the box office on fire but did extremely well
[00:30:04] on VOD like very, very, very, very well basically like focus have told me and it sounds
[00:30:09] like maybe I've told you that the movie was like a sensation for them to be completely
[00:30:13] like to their mild surprise I think.
[00:30:15] Yeah, I love that movie so much as do I but one thing I love about it is Eggers' whole
[00:30:25] deal with all his movies where he's like this is sincere like these are Vikings they have
[00:30:30] Viking goals like I am not making this for you like I he's trying to get to Valhalla
[00:30:36] yeah that's his goal and he indeed he does.
[00:30:39] And he does I'm crying because I'm like crazy bastard he got to Valhalla.
[00:30:45] Yeah, it's incredible truly like what are the rare movies where I was like I have tears
[00:30:50] coming from my face.
[00:30:52] I was like usually I'm like oh I'm gonna cry I can tell like this is working me up
[00:30:56] and instead I was just watching it like he's going to Valhalla going oh my god have you
[00:31:00] seen you've seen the North men?
[00:31:01] Yeah, I was rewatching it last night because I was yeah.
[00:31:05] And then to watch that funeral scene again because it's the same the same incantation
[00:31:10] like the low I see my father low I see my mother like lifting the woman who's going
[00:31:15] to be sacrificed up three times and was like oh that my watch 13th where is like oh that
[00:31:20] is literally they just did I mean it's obviously a traditional Viking funeral.
[00:31:24] And I just wanted to see how Robert did it again and then I just wound up watching North
[00:31:29] men because it's so good.
[00:31:31] Do you remember this being a movie?
[00:31:34] You liked when you first saw it or was it just that certain ideas in it stuck with you?
[00:31:39] Did you see it in theater?
[00:31:40] I saw it in theater.
[00:31:41] I was pleasantly surprised by it when it came out and he and the re so this goes into my
[00:31:45] in high school I got a job as a projectionist and saw from 96 no 97 until 2004 I worked
[00:31:53] in a movie theater that was like career a career movie theater employee.
[00:31:57] I know that and I think of you just running back and forth yeah you've told my story
[00:32:01] yeah right between all the other sleepy hollow episode all the theaters because they
[00:32:05] were all one long harder like the whole rooms right and so I was there when the eaters
[00:32:11] of the dead trailer came in and threaded it up and watched it and really this sounds
[00:32:15] pretty cool.
[00:32:16] And then obviously at that point without the internet any sort of release delays came
[00:32:22] through us from letters from the studio saying just pull these trailers these movies aren't
[00:32:25] coming pooled its poster this movie is not coming the first trailer had eaters of the
[00:32:28] dead as the title on it and it's on YouTube so my memory of watching it was like this trailer
[00:32:34] is scary yeah the trailer title is scary I didn't know what it was in the trailer I was
[00:32:40] Irishman being of the I'm an eater of the dead sometimes like that's fair fair.
[00:32:45] I'm not bragging about it bragging and I went back it's not the trailers on YouTube
[00:32:49] yeah it's more just unpleasant it's unpleasant trailer it's weird what footage they use
[00:32:55] it's very dark it's a lot of like torches and horses it says pray for the living I guess
[00:33:00] it's sort of like the monster people attacking you're probably watching without sound right
[00:33:05] now yeah the sound is really screechy and just kind of like off putting how did you guys
[00:33:12] go about rewatching this movie also Antonio Banderas barely visible in this there's almost
[00:33:18] no it's just all these writers with torches right as I'll see him in shadow for like five
[00:33:23] seconds I mean we're getting to see if it's a lot you watch an iTunes do you iTunes as well okay I
[00:33:28] found the the compression on iTunes and the quality of the video which is listed as HD but look
[00:33:34] to me like a VHS in a movie that's pretty dark almost unflouchable you found it almost I didn't
[00:33:43] think it was that bad yeah I don't remember it surely has not been I ended up up rezzed from DVD
[00:33:48] firing up express VPN or loyal sponsors on this show because I saw that it was on Disney plus
[00:33:56] and it was a better version because I actually was like 20 minutes in finding it hard to make out
[00:34:01] the images interesting and it did look better on Disney plus I don't know what the fuck was going
[00:34:05] on there you guys had no K time on iTunes it was fine yeah it didn't but it is dark it is not
[00:34:11] but it is a dark movie that is not served well by basically being abandoned like this movie's
[00:34:19] never gonna get restored right there's no and there's also the idea of spending more money on
[00:34:24] this movie might actually be like illegal like in terms of accounting like you can't the only source
[00:34:29] JJ could find to like pull quotes from the people who worked on it was there was a 2011 French
[00:34:35] Blu-ray with an hour of new interviews and I cannot believe they got anyone to sit down to talk
[00:34:40] about this thing 12 years later but that France is apparently the only country that cares I mean
[00:34:46] Crite and liked it yeah I'm glad he and he you know deserved to be happy he had so few wins and
[00:34:53] it also is exactly the book he's like oh this is the book I love yeah right I guess that's all
[00:34:58] he all right here's what I here right number my I just want to say about Crite and obviously
[00:35:02] drastic park yes sphere was my big one that book rules I recommend it to anyone I like that book so
[00:35:08] much that I like that movie a lot mm-hmm even though the movie is sort of like half-rissable yeah
[00:35:13] I'm still just like there's a sphere like at the bottom of the ocean it's just kind of just compelling
[00:35:17] enough to me yeah um so that was always I want to read more Crite and I've never read like the
[00:35:23] Andromeda strain never read like some of his like master perfect timing's got a new book coming out
[00:35:28] isn't he dead yes but he had an unfinished book that is now being released and James Patterson finished
[00:35:34] yeah he's hit the one that's like a Jurassic Park prequel or that's already been released there's
[00:35:37] there he wrote like a Jurassic Park prequel set in the 19th century I'm that feels like
[00:35:43] something that's already been released what the fuck was it called I think that was really dragon teeth
[00:35:52] yes dragon teeth um but uh the other thing I always think is you six nine
[00:35:58] yeah most famously tall person there is I mean I've seen created ER as well we're all
[00:36:03] shit like that but like well see six nine we're gonna dig into this photo of him on the set of
[00:36:07] this movie I pulled up a production still of him directing a bunch of the Nordic Viking actors
[00:36:13] and it is bizarre to see him towering over there yeah and it's like in 20 bendurus not a shortman
[00:36:19] no looks like me next to right all the Nordic actors and then Criteins like a head above them
[00:36:27] and 20 bendurus is listed five nine so he might be on the shorter side well I like that
[00:36:32] I remember when the expendables two trailer or poster came out he might be in three but go on
[00:36:39] whichever one it is like which one there was this poster where they're all standing in the same
[00:36:44] height yes and the trickery of it like having jet leaves stand as the same height as like
[00:36:48] dolphin or whatever is so offensive like yeah I'm like these men are like there's a foot
[00:36:54] indifference between the tallest and the shortest like let them you know but like instead they all
[00:36:58] have to be like even and it was just very funny yeah yeah I remember looking up all their heights
[00:37:05] and bendurus is one of the smaller ones okay but god bless I love that get compact package but
[00:37:11] you know the full package yeah David yeah you know what I hate what licensing media for my project
[00:37:20] it's a hassle oh I want I want to leave a voicemail for a family member wishing them a happy birthday
[00:37:27] and suddenly I find out it costs how much to license sympathy for the devil yeah that's what you
[00:37:33] wanted to have a birthday is free now now it's free now it's free but I thought it'd be fun to
[00:37:39] call my dad go yeah right it's just first is just hiss you know just take players as a me
[00:37:45] brooder bring introduce myself I'm your son wishing you birthday sympathy for the devil that's
[00:37:51] what I know but I'm now thinking of just doing the incredibly slow intro of give me shelter on
[00:37:56] someone like it's just really slow before you're even like what is he doing oh it's give me shelter
[00:38:02] I want to make the people in my life know that I love them but here's the thing I got a lot of
[00:38:07] listeners who creatives themselves working on all sorts of projects right yeah and you want
[00:38:12] to use images you want to use video clips you want to use music and sometimes it's hard to generate
[00:38:19] those assets yourself or find them for an affordable price and David that's where story blocks come
[00:38:24] fans that right store blocks is a stock media subscription service of the vast library of stock
[00:38:29] video images audio and sound effects unlimited royalty free assets for creators and businesses to
[00:38:35] enhance their projects without worrying about copyright issues or extra costs this is the game change
[00:38:40] safe using this stuff like if you need like a little little music bed right this is safe you're not
[00:38:45] gonna get sued you're not gonna get pulled off YouTube or whatever video skits or you're very
[00:38:50] serious videos you know how often I need a boiling sound time constantly and those are all owned by
[00:38:57] universe and some of the boy these have been the two options for years Ben is playing universal
[00:39:03] $1 million per Boeing or Ben is bringing a giant rusty spring into the studio and his hands are
[00:39:10] how list as I have gotten so many tetanus shots over these last nine years we just should have done
[00:39:15] is subscribe to story block because it's not an allocate service it's a subscription and suddenly the
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[00:40:44] and long bye bye
[00:40:47] the 13th for you I did not see this movie in theaters I never saw this movie I saw it the other day same
[00:40:53] for this podcast yeah I do remember my dad telling me about a book called eaters of the dead
[00:40:59] cool good father yeah I wish this guy had told me right my dad never
[00:41:03] fucking told me there was a book called me being like oh and he was like yeah anyway this movie
[00:41:08] apparently lost $100 million dollars and then like that's the only I've just known this is the movie
[00:41:13] that lost so much money yeah that's it I remember walking by like I have a very distinct memory of
[00:41:19] walking by a poster at the AMC Lincoln Square my dad being like I guess it was a low-slink in square
[00:41:24] at that point and being like that things gonna be a disaster right right just being like they shot
[00:41:30] that like three years yeah I came out in August you know like it's you you can smell it even when
[00:41:35] you're well we were savvy little stupid you know savvy little straight reading yeah exactly boys but
[00:41:42] this book okay I'm opening the dossier okay Michael Criteon uh 76 publishes either of the dead
[00:41:49] it's his 14th novel but only the fourth under his own name all his all his first three books all
[00:41:55] got turned to movies drama strain terminal man great train robbery you ever seen terminal man
[00:41:59] I have not George Segal fighting a big computer sounds incredible pretty good added to the remake
[00:42:04] list lowering um Criteon himself of course had made movies as we said right um
[00:42:11] so this 70s were like his books are hitting and he's like what if I start directing and his movies
[00:42:17] are hits too um right uh so in 1978 Orion Pictures and Warner Brothers announced
[00:42:24] ears of the dead will be adapted for the big screen obviously Michael Criteon is our director makes
[00:42:29] sense right bingo bingo sugar in the gas tank right oh that's bad gas in the gas tank good uh project
[00:42:38] fails to take off um goes to korelko at some point uh Warren Lewis the screenwriter writes a new
[00:42:46] script for it like for whatever reason Criteon movies died in the eighties yeah like the Congo
[00:42:51] and Jurassic Park and all that like that's the nineties rebound of them the other thing is Criteon
[00:42:55] has like a years long writers block period uh right Jurassic Park breaks a like extended by all
[00:43:04] accounts like weirdly some Michael Ovitz talk about this once at the 90s secondary why
[00:43:08] as the greatest accomplishment of his career was like Criteon had years where he could not write
[00:43:13] was like wrestling with himself on the floor yeah because it goes Congo 1980 sphere 87 yeah Jurassic
[00:43:20] Park 90 so sphere he clearly it's like drag out of himself yeah and in the 90s it does like seven
[00:43:25] novels right like Jurassic Park like finally breaks the dam for him and obviously is like this huge
[00:43:31] second wave of his career but that um I think the book coming out and being such a sensation even before
[00:43:39] the movie although the movie rights are obviously sold immediately um it's like there's a sort of
[00:43:44] second wave of appreciation for Criteon right because he had been gone for a little bit uh people are
[00:43:50] excited to have him back and then yeah he starts out the fucking decade with Jurassic and ER which
[00:43:56] obviously is not a thing that he's like hugely hands on for no involvement he wrote a pilot script
[00:44:01] but yeah people in Hollywood have gotten more credit for less successful things that they did less on
[00:44:05] look his name is on 15 seasons of the year right yeah so between his name being at the beginning
[00:44:09] of every episode and Jurassic Park the 90s clearly Hollywood's like this guy is back to being untouchable
[00:44:16] anything with Criteon attached is fucking gold and then basically everyone who takes on Criteon after
[00:44:22] that flops strikes out I would agree yes this disclosure sphere Congo disclosure does well right
[00:44:29] disclosure is the one that does well um but yes time conco sphere timeline timeline and these are
[00:44:36] big to me how you forgot about timeline donner mctearman levensson yeah yeah you're right I mean lost
[00:44:43] world is obviously like very successful but less liked yeah and uh you know that that's it I mean
[00:44:50] they read there was a an e and drama to strain that nobody liked I think oh maybe people didn't
[00:44:56] the people yelling me now but like there hasn't even there's never been another Criteon adaptation
[00:45:01] that worked even now no death and westworld the show is so distantly yes I guess it did initially work
[00:45:08] it did before it sort of went off the right but like he has nothing to do with his yeah right
[00:45:12] 90s Criteon feeding frenzy of like a list stars and a list directors are gonna attach
[00:45:16] themselves to Criteon projects and all of them are these very hyped projects with huge budgets
[00:45:23] almost all of them have really difficult extended productions and then just land with a thought
[00:45:28] man timeline and 13th warrior would be a brutal double feature yeah let's program it and introduce
[00:45:34] and make everyone and lock the doors from the outside yes they're aesthetically very sick in my memories
[00:45:39] they're dark dark and torches yes yes and like both are like like Hollywood's like I know what you
[00:45:46] want Vikings right and audiences like well no we weren't interested sorry and both of those movies
[00:45:52] same was like what do you went back to a castle and they're like I don't know and okay or both of
[00:45:55] those movies are lead actors who absolutely do not belong in this film Paul Walker and uh has
[00:46:00] like real has seen a guess it's on a cell phone back then he's seen a page yes he's seen an
[00:46:06] answering machine but the whole he's a modern day like he's a graduate student who creates a
[00:46:12] time machine by accident I believe that's right I've never seen it I mean you I will see it for
[00:46:17] $100,000 cash non sequential bills um okay I just think with everything going on in the world today
[00:46:24] they're better uses of money if any listener has a hundred thousand dollars and are planning to wire
[00:46:29] it to David to watch finally I ask you to reconsider someone else yeah double it uh yeah double
[00:46:35] it um so William Wischer um rewrites this script William Wischer obviously wrote a terminator two with
[00:46:41] James Cameron etc so he's a hot name John McTerrying gets attached um and Andrew Vanya the Rambo guy
[00:46:50] Coralco yes but I think at this point he's maybe leapt off of
[00:46:55] uh Coralco he had produced tombstone um Evita die hard with a vengeance right what was this new
[00:47:03] company called um synergy but with a lot of with more eyes than you think there should be
[00:47:12] but he also made super mario brothers judge dread color of night like
[00:47:17] super rare brothers judge dread like though those like I have such affection for the course
[00:47:24] 90s we spent too much money there's a lot of sets yes there's one star maybe who's completely out
[00:47:29] of control I don't know if he's ever wrong yeah like but like and like they everyone hated them at
[00:47:35] the time and I watched them with fondness also movies that have almost abject contempt for their source
[00:47:40] material uh right right like yeah exactly we'll take the name and the costume with judge dread
[00:47:45] helmets coming off immediately right we're not gonna respect any of the rules we're doing mario
[00:47:49] but none of that dumb baby shit right except with mario brothers it was like with judge dread
[00:47:54] it was like you pissed off a bunch of agro-british comic book nerds yes with mario brothers it was
[00:47:58] like the country of Japan was like this is brought great changes like why has this happened and
[00:48:03] shigeru Miyamoto was for years he's just like I was so humiliated by that like how dare they
[00:48:08] I refuse to acknowledge the existence of movies as an art form because of this disgrace you've seen
[00:48:14] the Bob Hoskins thing about mario right I mean obviously he's talked about how he he drank throughout
[00:48:18] the production and was mostly just trying to build that kind of house or whatever but there's
[00:48:22] the thing where someone's like oh no mario and he showed me this video game it's like boop boop and
[00:48:27] I was looking at that and I was like I'm liking me it's so good isn't the story too that like
[00:48:34] someone on set asked him if he had played the video game and he was like what yes I think that
[00:48:39] like he just thought it was like a pretty bizarre spec script but when I'm trying to communicate here
[00:48:45] is that like synergy yes would like make a lot of money and then like judge dread will come around
[00:48:50] and they go back to zero they were kind of like living paycheck to paycheck right they were making
[00:48:55] big big swings one for no one right yeah like they'd be like ah Vito it all right we got money again
[00:49:00] we can open the doors and they're like oh shit color at night no one saw you know whatever right
[00:49:04] so they need Disney to help fund this movie yes that's how Disney comes aboard Disney gets
[00:49:11] uh whatever some rights and then as it's about to start production synergy gets liquidated
[00:49:20] uh and so Disney takes over the entire project wait the perfect example of a moment where Disney should
[00:49:26] have stopped step back for a second and say we don't do this maybe just don't do this and instead
[00:49:30] they're like no this will be a touchstone release fully owned by Disney um in Tonyo Benderis
[00:49:38] if Vita and the mask of Zaro yeah he's hot stuff right me he's sort of people sexy as man alive
[00:49:44] like he's one of those guys like like yeah like he's just breaking out every woman is like what
[00:49:49] did what a hunk right critics are like this guy's a real actor right like he has sort of everything
[00:49:54] going yeah the art house credit the beginning from a motorbike right like blossoming into king of
[00:49:58] spanish cinema this guy can do anything he's so uninhibited i can't believe he looks like this you have
[00:50:04] certain people like latching on to him and then he like jumps over to hollywood in the 90s is learning
[00:50:10] his roles phonetically before he's even fluent but it's one of the still killing it like you're crushing
[00:50:15] it but one of those guys where you could just feel that hollywood like everyone got together at a
[00:50:19] border and said like we're all all in on this guy right we're all gonna commit to like a six year plan
[00:50:24] of making intonate been there as an a list leading man and it's like mom bow kings to like
[00:50:29] Philadelphia to assassins and then this is the right right right and then they're finally like great
[00:50:35] he gets to be the guy above the title it's desparado it's Zoro it's this how do you feel but Antonio
[00:50:40] generally I love he's great he's the best yeah he's just like a utter delight whenever he shows up on
[00:50:45] screen you made a great comment David i don't remember if it was after dial of destiny sims i'm sorry
[00:50:52] okay uh if it was after lower you make many great comments uh sims one specific good comment you
[00:50:57] made that i remember after i'll destiny it was each actor dialer destiny or uncharted but the more
[00:51:03] damning thing is you might have said it both times yeah of like for a guy who was one of my favorite
[00:51:08] living actors it is kind of astounding how he can also just give you nothing well like not give
[00:51:14] you nothing give you nothing's the wrong wording he can be nothing yeah it's just like in both those
[00:51:19] movies he shows up and you're like great i'm getting a whole act of this guy and then five
[00:51:23] minutes later it's like you just got hit by a bus but not only that and to be clear he doesn't get
[00:51:27] hit by bus neither those movies but he might as well i have never seen a performance that i feel
[00:51:32] he is phoning in because he has so much energy as a performer he never comes across as lazy
[00:51:38] but it is wild to watch him in like a movie like dial a destiny where he shows up and you're like
[00:51:43] automatically i'm getting 20 minutes of juice out of the sky and even screen time aside you're like
[00:51:48] none of this is registering it is bizarre and i think this is one of those films where you're like
[00:51:54] he just like kind of disappears into the movie he doesn't even look like Antonio Bandit.
[00:51:59] He's like doing shit like it doesn't feel like it's lack of commitment but you're like it is bizarre
[00:52:07] how a guy who is just like can be this electrifying and then even has the ability to like tone it
[00:52:14] down and go somewhere deeper and whatever can just sort of like show up walk his way across a scene
[00:52:22] and make no impression. I think his movie is aiming for sort of realism that hurts him
[00:52:27] like he's better as like a larger than life character yes and that's not what he's playing like an
[00:52:32] observer you know there's like the scene where they're like can you read us up home or whatever
[00:52:37] where he has to and you're like more of that please like more of him being in order and getting
[00:52:41] to be bring some flamboyants to it but it's all very tamped down flamboyants is the word
[00:52:45] there's also just like an innate musicality to the way he speaks that does not necessarily
[00:52:53] mix well with a certain like reserved grit yeah that this movie is going for and it translates
[00:52:59] even just the way he moves where you're like what a perfect fit for Zoro like you just imagine
[00:53:04] the moment that I'll move to our season for the first time in his like fuck i can do anything with
[00:53:09] this guy so good in all those movies right and here he can't he's like i can't lift this sort
[00:53:13] yes right he's too heavy for me didn't enjoy making this film he also he fucks up his back badly
[00:53:21] while filming yes he also says about acting against basically a bunch of six ten Norseman
[00:53:27] it was like making a movie in a Los Angeles Lakers these people were enormous like I think he
[00:53:31] physically was just like how do I stand out amongst these people the back injury thing is interesting
[00:53:36] because this does feel like a movie where they're shooting around him a lot where there will be
[00:53:40] fight sequences where you're like there hasn't even been a cut away at him in minutes um oh my
[00:53:45] sure of course basically like shadow over this movie saying after making that film I said let
[00:53:52] us stop this nonsense these meal tickets we do because they pay well unless I find this
[00:53:56] to bend his film that I love like he was he's sort of retired now he made months your ebraham
[00:54:02] like four years later he said I want to sort of come back unless I get material that really speaks
[00:54:06] to me he does that everyone's like Omar Sharif is back and then what does he do immediately after that
[00:54:10] what hold on go right he just takes it he's like hey can you meet like an old guy on a horse who's like
[00:54:15] yes of course I read his knee funneling a hundred million dollars plus into a movie no one gives a
[00:54:19] shit about where he's like once again sort of prestige for hire I read that quote from him and assumed
[00:54:25] that he had been a much larger part of the movie right and it's right then I read the book
[00:54:30] who's not even a character and I was like oh surely this movie did not start media rest it's
[00:54:34] still had a first act yeah and in which all of those brief flashbacks were fully fledged scenes
[00:54:40] but there's even more of that in the movie now than there is in the book in the book it's like page
[00:54:45] one I slept with the wrong person and I got sent to this rustic land yeah believe me I would
[00:54:50] pay today for a movie about Antonio Benderes cucking some like that's the movie I want to see
[00:54:56] Lord and getting sent away from like you know ancient Baghdad this movie breezes past in the first
[00:55:02] 10 minutes something I want to unpack for out right and it's like I chose the wrong woman to love
[00:55:08] and now I must to get on a ship now obviously I don't know how well Antonio Benderes has ancient
[00:55:15] Arabian warrior would go over in 2023 you know in the 90s still kind of like yeah reset go here's
[00:55:22] the movie Benderes keep sticking his dick in the wrong places I mean start fresh that is something
[00:55:29] it actually does keep happening in the book that's one key difference oh really there's more
[00:55:32] shagging there's a lot more shagging but there's also a lot of Viking sexual assault as you want
[00:55:39] to anticipate so it's actually good that all got removed right okay but and now Antonio Benderes
[00:55:44] Benderes' character is quite a bit more horny than he's I mean you can tell these you know
[00:55:49] as you should be yeah the story right when um when McToron talks about his version of the movie
[00:55:55] and how it would have different uh he said Disney wanted to cut down that shit as much as possible
[00:56:01] and he's like I basically had like 10 more minutes of that that was the biggest difference in my
[00:56:05] cut like debauchery or no Benderes yeah before he joins the bike going and they were like take all
[00:56:12] the muslim stuff down too as little as makes no sense because the way this movie starts is confounding
[00:56:17] correct like he the movie he's a fish out of water it's the crucial thing to the movie obviously
[00:56:23] probably wondering how I wound up here and it does start with me anyway so I'm with these Vikings because
[00:56:28] I'm like no who are you what is the previous ponds sir that you have been removed from I knew so
[00:56:36] little about this movie going in outside of names and title um I was so disoriented by the first 15
[00:56:44] minutes that it took me an hour past that to go oh this is bailball yes I genuinely didn't
[00:56:49] it didn't register for me because I was still like what was the fuck was all of that
[00:56:55] this definitely is a classic you start the movie and you're like did I click a button and
[00:57:00] accidentally jump three chapters yes and cut the cut back it's like that was like I was like when
[00:57:05] you're watching these movies you're like trying to dissect where did it go wrong what got reshaw
[00:57:08] what got reshuffled in the post and like the cut back to him on the boat is such a crazy again
[00:57:14] like it feels like you're just jumping a scene in the movie and I was like surely they had an
[00:57:19] entire first act but I don't actually know that they did not know but I think there were more
[00:57:23] sheriff scenes I think there was a little more to be more sheriff or he just did the same scene eight
[00:57:28] times I think they bring him back like let's shoot the funeral again let's shoot this again yeah that
[00:57:32] would be my guess but I mean to to repurpose the bad Twitter joke you do start watching this
[00:57:37] movie and go like is this not making sense because I didn't watch the first through 12 warriors of
[00:57:42] course of course um look uh okay production begins June 1997 in Canada most of the film was shot
[00:57:52] in Vancouver Island it wraps by October was budgeted at $60 million it was championed by
[00:58:00] the British Columbia Film Commission as one of their big expensive projects that you're along with
[00:58:05] Mr. McGoo what's gonna say the big two yeah they're gonna dominate Hollywood in 98 warrior and
[00:58:12] McGoo very different time for Disney um there was uh you know whatever type security let's you know
[00:58:21] big stunts um it's not for five months yes right I think my conditions have ever shot in Canada
[00:58:29] well finally enough I was watching this movie and I was like this looks so familiar I do like
[00:58:33] shit and then I was like oh yes I was there and then I was also like some of these Vikings look
[00:58:38] pretty familiar and I looked in the credits and really uh there's one gentleman named John
[00:58:43] DeSantis who was also a master in commander and he's one of the principal pirates and he's huge
[00:58:48] in Peter Pan he's who's taller than Michael Crite and he plays broad like he's yeah but it is
[00:58:54] the Bernard the blow with some I hear was Nick's character name in this movie is that's primarily
[00:58:58] the same island you use for Neverland rag no rag no rag are the dour we did we shot almost no
[00:59:04] location okay stuff in Canada and Vancouver but we scouted it all gotcha and so it just I was
[00:59:11] like I'm pretty sure I've been to most of these places um you were at Newfoundland
[00:59:15] Newfoundland was like all the location mark Newfoundland's awesome live show live show I don't know
[00:59:21] if there are enough people to fill a room in Newfoundland no offense surprisingly there would
[00:59:27] be it's like it's pretty crazy how like for such a crazily hard to get to place it's like a vibrant
[00:59:34] community yeah so I sure that place is lousy with hogs hogs yeah and now they're all over the place
[00:59:39] yeah just just don't mention Labrador when you're there it's a little Canadian joke um
[00:59:46] what's there's that there's the the town of Dildo famously yeah that's what that's what I love
[00:59:50] how there are those towns and now like there's some town called like fuck in Sweden or something
[00:59:56] where they're like we're gonna change the name we're sick of this like people just come to take
[00:59:59] pictures of this sign we're just gonna change the name um all right word emerges in 1998 film is in
[01:00:06] trouble gets pulled off the slate uh quote-unquote production delays this is of course pre-internet
[01:00:12] right so these rumors just come out and like tiny little dribs and drabs right like and there's no
[01:00:17] info being filled in between it's just suddenly like Disney puts out a statement the film will be pushed
[01:00:21] to the fall right and then it just never comes out for a while um so uh of course the film was
[01:00:27] supposed to be called the eaters of the dead uh which McTiernan thought was a cool title Disney
[01:00:32] decided it's too dark and scary uh he tells that story about watering the grass at his house and saying
[01:00:38] meters that that sounds like a horror movie so they changed it to the 13th warrior um but I also
[01:00:43] shouldn't they be kind of selling this as a horror movie it's an angle versus what this movie has
[01:00:49] no angle correct and it's like leaning into the fear yeah right embrace fear reject fear like
[01:00:57] like they they can't even decide the ad guys this is a time though we were talking with with
[01:01:05] our he was texting us about like what's this shift that happens like late 90s into early 2000s
[01:01:11] where suddenly a list stars and directors are not terrified to make horror films where it's not
[01:01:17] looked upon as a lesser genre in a certain way and we're saying like six cents is responsible for
[01:01:24] a lot of it yeah which comes out right before this but I do think when a budget gets over a certain
[01:01:29] number they're just like this can't be horror horror is trashy right it is unbecoming horror is
[01:01:36] definitely seen now as the the domain of lesser smaller new line type studios right you know uh
[01:01:44] classy horror has died of death it's coming back now it's a trouble to be like yes they'd be like
[01:01:49] lean into the horror make more yeah that's what they did with the horror movie yeah like a death
[01:01:54] in event to haunting and Venice death in Venice that'd be that'd be crazy haunting and Venice like I
[01:01:59] just remember seeing that trailer and I'm like this is cut like a blumhouse trailer right like it
[01:02:03] just has poro in it yes but like the trailer is like this is fucking nerve jangling thrill ride you know
[01:02:10] but I mean the other examples we were saying uh uh the haunting is 99 which is yanddebought but it's
[01:02:15] fieldberg producing it and it's Liam Neeson and Catherine Zeta Jones and it's like a big budget
[01:02:21] uh right a lot of it is like Spielberg and Zamekis and those guys coming of an age where they're
[01:02:25] like we grew up on these movies we like them we take them seriously we're gonna produce them
[01:02:30] and then Zamekis does what lies beneath right um right but yes this movie should have been like
[01:02:35] here's the pitch and Tony Abindair's fights monsters fights like cannibal people yeah terrifying um
[01:02:42] okay apparently Disney was trying to get McTurne and committed to another
[01:02:46] frightened adaptation called airframe they basically keep this movie going and pumping money
[01:02:52] into it because they think the real play is getting him to make this other frightened movie afterwards
[01:02:58] yeah what's airframe about uh it's like about the investigation of an airplane accident
[01:03:03] it kind of sounds cool yeah in that frightening way of like he's really good at taking you into like
[01:03:07] the the technical process right of something i'm sure it's good at making it
[01:03:12] very exciting yeah exactly yeah uh and then you know McTurne and of course eventually says
[01:03:17] fuck you after this movie being on not doing anything with the character right right yeah more
[01:03:22] Disney yeah um so uh you know McTurne and said basically like this was originally gonna be a
[01:03:30] PG-13 blockbuster it could turn into like a gory or r-rated movie one of the only times where
[01:03:35] it's happening in that direction where this movie is like greenlit as PG-13 eaters of the dead
[01:03:43] and then at some point they go like we're changing the title to something more generic
[01:03:46] less horror sounding but also asking you to make it bloodier because we watched the cut and it feels
[01:03:52] like we're pulling punches right and he's like if i had known it was art from the beginning which i
[01:03:57] would have preferred i would have structured everything differently yeah i would have designed all
[01:04:02] these sequences differently if it should have been art from the beginning right and now i'm
[01:04:06] basically like going back for reshoots and just doing like tom savini gags which yeah yeah
[01:04:11] don't even that many no but they just throw in some bloody stuff just to throw it in there's
[01:04:16] someone's head gets popped off at one point yeah there's so much potential like one of those smooth
[01:04:20] motions where i'm like heads don't just come off of but no but they do in the movie with the title
[01:04:25] i just i cannot think of another example of that where studios like we're going to funnel more
[01:04:30] money in and make it r-rated right whereas usually it's like this cost too much we need to
[01:04:35] recut it down to PG-13 and put it out fast uh so um obviously as you said criton overshot his own
[01:04:43] reshoots overshot basically almost all the editing over saw over all the editing um
[01:04:50] and uh kool-itch who is kool-itch the producer no kool-itch that paper is right yeah yeah said
[01:04:59] basically like i did an ending with mcgernan and an ending with kraighton like in the same lot
[01:05:04] and i would be shuddling between like studios he said kraighton came up to him at one point and
[01:05:09] said by the way whatever you're doing over there it's not gonna end up in the movie so don't
[01:05:12] put too much work into it yeah kraighton was like i have final cut yeah so whatever you do over there
[01:05:17] it definitely does not seem like the appropriate process for me came over you know terrible it sounds
[01:05:21] like a nightmare just simultaneously is wild it's not like oh kraighton gets a stab at reshoots
[01:05:27] and then mcgernan is usually like i think of a director as like the studio and i disagree
[01:05:33] right we're gonna go our separate ways creative differences yes you don't persevere usually
[01:05:39] unless it's like dueling edits at the end of the like we're gonna test out two different versions
[01:05:43] but by edit it was settled like edit was kraighton gets control of that at a certain point mcgernan's
[01:05:49] like i'm fucking going on to Thomas crown i gotta do something else there's also a gram revelle score
[01:05:56] you know which so was much more influenced by like a re-ean music yeah exactly like you know um
[01:06:03] and i love gram revelle he did like the crow and from dust till dawn and he's also the r-rated horror
[01:06:08] he's the guy who goes you for those movies and kraighton's like fuck that we we're getting
[01:06:12] Jerry Goldsmith but who's like my guy and we'll give you swelling orchestral medieval music you know
[01:06:17] like battle music it's fun if generic goldsmiths or he's better at this than anybody it's not original
[01:06:22] work from him though um john wanted the mother character to be like a grand matriarch kraighton
[01:06:29] thought she should be hot it's amazing how we play the metal yeah the mother should be very
[01:06:37] sexy total babe uh no in the book she's described much like like a loathsome creature who is like
[01:06:44] ancient and and huge but that's one where they like shot that both ways with two different
[01:06:49] cases that makes sense that makes sense um right um uh koolich says like michael's cut is simplistic
[01:06:57] mcturnians is more deep and multi-layered i mean we're never gonna see these no mcturnan also has
[01:07:04] kind of been like that's nice of him to say but like i don't think there's some good version of
[01:07:08] this movie and it can't somewhere yeah there's a better version there's no lost masterpiece right
[01:07:13] um what's his name koolich the actor lada mucoolich he understandably talks about like he seems
[01:07:17] to be the one guy who when they were like do you want to do some DVD interviews he's like yes
[01:07:21] sure i'll do i bet there's was like lose my number they wanted to sell and scars guard to play as part
[01:07:26] which makes perfect right and uh mcturnan wanted him no one else wanted him disney didn't want him
[01:07:34] craton didn't want him mcturnan fought really hard and the way he talks about it he clearly was like
[01:07:39] here is my entree to hollywood the film that will make me at the very least
[01:07:44] still in scar's guard at the very least i will be like a reliable supporting actor in big hollywood
[01:07:50] films and i think he it just reads like he cannot divorce the potential this movie had in its head
[01:07:57] from what it ended up being which is disappointing yeah yeah because he's doing everyone in the movies
[01:08:03] like doing pretty good work like they're like the guy that plays way is that is that the guy that
[01:08:08] plays the bully wolf or the guy that plays his friend play's bowl of the guy which is by a wolf
[01:08:14] guy that places friend was also again i kept being like i feel like this should be populated with
[01:08:19] like actors i know from dogman 95 movies and like i didn't know anybody in his store holly
[01:08:23] surprising that you're not like recognizing people you go to their i and db isn't you're like oh
[01:08:27] i guess i have seen that guy in ten things but none of them immediately jump obviously it's a lot
[01:08:33] of David's leaning on doing doing Georgian sign fell yeah but like yeah like because it's a dark movie
[01:08:39] but i was kind of like oh Antonio Benderos isn't it and then i looking at the castle like well
[01:08:43] Diane Vanora oh god i love her for sure i'm sure she'll be all over this thing kind of like
[01:08:48] high shots right and then i'm like and then who else do they have they have no names i know
[01:08:53] shreefe's gone from minute seven yeah like even the fucking hobbit movies yes make an effort to have
[01:09:00] them be visually distinctive in a way that you can now obviously that's that in a fantasy world
[01:09:05] i understand this is going for like no these are real Viking warriors getting on a ship
[01:09:10] they're gonna kind of have the same vibe with their dark and a muddy in the apartment blood i just
[01:09:15] cannot keep track of these guys yeah and you're surprised at that guys you know especially when
[01:09:19] as you watch the movie you're like Benderos like sinking down to third lead of this film uh
[01:09:25] like i said because he's playing observer yeah he often right is relegated to like watching stuff
[01:09:32] happen yeah kind of boring whenever has he never has the hero moment where he you know goes on this
[01:09:39] story and say it's right yeah well so in a film where they don't care about casting a spanner
[01:09:44] to play a muslim you're almost astonished by their commitment to casting like guys who actually are
[01:09:50] kind of Nordic to play the Vikings rather than just putting you know whomever in there
[01:09:55] I cast for vandian or whatever i think that's actually because of the length they wanted
[01:09:57] people that were speaking that language at the beginning of the film which goes in again to the one
[01:10:03] the one memorable scene yeah which is memorable enough that i keep referencing it
[01:10:09] Griffin has your sock drawer looking unbelievable you know why why failed to dub bram with bomb
[01:10:15] best well maybe if you're not like Griffin it's time for a spring cleaning and refresh not like
[01:10:22] Griffin Griffin doesn't need to spring clean at all no i'm i'm sort of the the gallant in this
[01:10:26] situation you the listener are the goofess who needs to follow my example Ben you know from goofess
[01:10:32] and gallant Ben looked at me confused we all know from goofess and gallant we all know from
[01:10:36] goofess and gallant right honestly no like I don't think he knows what goofess and gallant
[01:10:44] does things right and all the damn dentist magazine exactly yeah and often Ben I'm the goofess of
[01:10:53] the world everyone laughing and pointing and doing it saying don't do what Griffin does he's
[01:10:57] doing it all wrong but when you crack open the old griffy newm sock drawer for that brief moment
[01:11:04] I'm a gallant because it is overflowing with bombus and everyone should follow my lead here's
[01:11:10] a thing with bombus David and I learned this the hard way and I'm wearing them right now I'm
[01:11:15] wiggling my toes and I'm gonna have to be like warren piece level bombus ad what you're trying bombus
[01:11:20] you'll never look at socks the same way again socks they have a great mission they don't get
[01:11:27] them honeycomb art support who else is going to give you that anything you purchase socks cheese on
[01:11:32] the wax cushion footbeds they donate them to someone paying facing homelessness they feel even
[01:11:37] better about my 100% happiness guarantee so if anything wrong happens or you don't like the
[01:11:42] purchase they'll just do whatever they can replace it or make it right see this is when I crack open
[01:11:47] my sock drawer I'm not just patting myself on the back and go and looking good griff I'm also
[01:11:51] thinking about the equivalent socks that others received for every pair I bought get comfy this
[01:11:57] spring and get back with bombus head over to bombus dot com slash check and use code check for 20%
[01:12:01] off your first purchase at the bomba st com slash check and use code check a check out bomba s dot com slash
[01:12:08] check bombus dot com slash shirt bombus the most successful company in history of short date okay now we're
[01:12:15] I mean let's try to dig into the plot of this but as we said it starts with this I bet you're
[01:12:18] wondering how I got here I'm on a ship because I I fuck the wrong person right yeah I basically
[01:12:27] I slept with the king's wife I mean it's not the king it's like the caliph yeah but uh you know
[01:12:31] yeah uh so I am now I've been appointed an ambassador to the vulga vulga's who are like
[01:12:39] these sort of like multi ethnic sort of Slavic state up you know the vulgar river you know
[01:12:46] you're getting more into like what is now Russian yeah uh in the caucuses or whatever so like I'm
[01:12:52] going up from the Middle East you know to whatever the central Asia slash Europe uh and there I run
[01:13:00] into a bunch of Norsemen right they fight off some raiders and he starts hanging out with the
[01:13:07] Norsemen right he gets enlisted because of the the the witcher the the seer there says you know
[01:13:14] you're about to embark on an adventure you need a titular 13th warrior there's 12 of you we need
[01:13:19] one more you think we need 13 and they're like we need 13 yeah it truly is that yeah where she's
[01:13:24] like okay like we're hearing that King Rothgar you know then everyone's Baywolf sends us start going
[01:13:30] off he's in trouble up north uh there's some monsters attacking him or something and the wise woman
[01:13:37] the sort of York from north yes yep character is like oh well for that you're gonna need a 13th
[01:13:43] warrior and he can't be a Viking and they're like that's the funniest part is she's like you're
[01:13:49] gonna need one more warrior and they're like okay Lars you're off the back no he needs to be kind
[01:13:53] of a different type no I there's more to the parchment you know the old systems
[01:14:01] someone with foreign sales appeal but it's going to be so annoying for him he's probably
[01:14:08] going to drop out a gladiator basically because of this like isn't that why he talked about the
[01:14:12] why this fucking part of the movie who is he playing Maximus it made care seriously that was built
[01:14:17] for him is what is the Spaniard oh no what's he saying is that this movie starts with Antonio Baderos
[01:14:22] being like item and Muslim and then gladiator starts with Russell Crowe being like I have
[01:14:26] course a Spaniard and it's because of fucking Ben Deris being cast in the wrong movie which
[01:14:32] causes him to drop out of the right this movie goes down like 20 points from where are you
[01:14:37] love because it's because of that but what was so good about it yeah Ben Deris would have been
[01:14:43] but I think so for him for him for him for Menderis it's like multiple the maris but the question is
[01:14:49] I do think Ben Deris could have been good in gladiator uh-huh but like is Crowe in gladiator the alchemy
[01:14:57] that makes it this like I don't know where hit you know like is Ben Deris in gladiator another
[01:15:01] medieval flop that only hurts his you know standing I think gladiator doesn't win best picture if
[01:15:07] Ben Deris is in it it's not that level of hit but it absolutely would have helped his career well
[01:15:13] the other thing is like it would have inherently had he not had this one not gone over budget
[01:15:17] it would have come after this one so it would have been like the second Antonio Baderos
[01:15:21] Sardin sandals movie which would have automatically heard it right sure but it also probably would have
[01:15:26] stopped this movie from going over budget it's like if they had just given up and said like fine
[01:15:31] put it out there let him go do gladiator this movie is half the flop that it would have been otherwise
[01:15:37] right also this same year crazy now Bama comes out um yes which is the one who be directed with
[01:15:45] monograffeth which is also a flop it's like but he's untouchable I agree but it's just funny we're like
[01:15:50] 98 people are like you know what we get it you finally made sense of Antonio Baderos we all
[01:15:55] get it he's aero perfect vehicle and 99 he's just like stepping in shit and people are just
[01:16:01] still kind of charmed by him I just like because he's so personally charming and he's so talented
[01:16:09] he's sort of indestructible he's been associated with lots of flops it doesn't really matter
[01:16:16] he always bounces back by doing usually something like shrek or spy kids or something where he's not
[01:16:22] even the lead yeah like but then when you look at like he's made more bombs than hits in Hollywood
[01:16:29] yes right like his hits in Hollywood are what x versus sever obviously x versus no it's like
[01:16:36] okay so it's like desperado was basically hit if we're talking like him as the guy that's not
[01:16:40] live action that's what I'm saying sorrow desperado um I'm not counting spy kids no
[01:16:47] I'm counting once upon a time in Mexico even though depth sort of helped that movie be a bigger hit
[01:16:52] at that moment I guess and then it's like pushing boots yeah did them fatality well no
[01:16:58] and then it's ever a bomb right like the bombs like assassins was a bomb right yeah um you know
[01:17:04] 13th warrior play it to the bone was kind of a bomb original sin original sin was a bomb people
[01:17:09] lead femfait how which is a great movie to be clear but x x versus sever um legend of sorrow
[01:17:16] everyone hates yeah take the lead great great call what the hell is that it's like a dancing movie
[01:17:21] yes sounds pretty good actually a border town you know fucking thick is the you know he's done
[01:17:28] like the straight to DVD stuff right now he's done a bunch of weird red box thrillers as well
[01:17:32] and then hold like pop into uncharted Indiana Jones do little playing a sexy pirate have you
[01:17:38] seen niad yet no I mean you have no I'm I'm you're excited to watch that we're really excited to watch
[01:17:44] I will have seen it by the time in the center she wears this like a suit this like rubber my
[01:17:49] suit you're gonna tell me Ben Harris is not I wish you can do it niad you must come
[01:17:57] it's that away um in niad she wears this like rubber suit to avoid being stung by jellyfish while
[01:18:03] she's swimming in the open ocean a totally normal thing that she does yeah uh and my friend
[01:18:08] referred to it as her skin I live in and I've not been able to just it truly just looks like that
[01:18:14] he's so good man he's amazing yeah that's the other thing he'll go off and do an umote of our
[01:18:20] movie and just get like five more years of cred from one of those like and also bearing tones of
[01:18:26] a motiva because like he does like this can I live in which is like very heightened and fucked up
[01:18:31] and weird but then also do these incredibly emotional ones and glorious like one of the exactly
[01:18:35] screen performances he's in do little is he the villain in that sexy pirate I've never seen that
[01:18:41] I have seen you see an idol if he's a if he's the villain um but like when Trek 2 comes out
[01:18:47] is a dragon that needs to fart right that's the thing you're dragging right yeah yeah um when do
[01:18:52] it not do a little when Trek 2 comes out people are like oh of course we all love Antonio
[01:18:57] Mendeira so we have always loved Antonio Mendeira so this guy's made flops for you guys are
[01:19:02] sure for him yeah and then he does like cat Zaro and you're all like you know give us a course
[01:19:07] let's change the constitution so we can elect him president I guess the other thing I'm forgetting
[01:19:11] is in between Trek 2 and the run of flops that start with this basically yeah uh he he does
[01:19:19] nine on Broadway and everyone's like oh fuck right this guy that's an incredible thing I listened to
[01:19:25] that all but it was that thing of just like right god he could you like funny and saying
[01:19:29] does that was he ever considered for the movie or is this post I was so furious no it's pre
[01:19:35] the movie they announced it with bar down the revival of nine they did announce it with bar down
[01:19:40] and then Daniel did filled in which isn't saying like that they were they're like do you want to do
[01:19:44] it Daniel's yeah he's like oh sure yeah you have two weeks to prep and he's like I probably got it
[01:19:49] but like the revival of nine that bandarist did was what kind of yes made that a hot property again
[01:19:56] um and of course the original version of nine um was probably Julia right and
[01:20:02] and to do bandarist does kind of have he does kind of take the torch from raw Julia
[01:20:07] yes as the kind of like pint-sized mega good actor sex symbol
[01:20:13] smoldering milling and a lot Chris can also kind of do anything yeah like you need him to drop
[01:20:17] to like support fine he'll do that too um but like the problem I guess is that he's so handsome
[01:20:26] and charming that Hollywood's like but you need to be the star of action movies yeah
[01:20:31] and when he's in the expendables it's like yeah he belongs here he did a bunch of movies with guns
[01:20:36] and stuff but you don't really think of him as like a dolphin grinned or a John clavander
[01:20:42] desperate on the side it's like his worst all his bad stuff yeah right what if he was playing
[01:20:48] well I was gonna make a joke actually I don't know if he's exor sever is he exor sever can anyone answer
[01:20:53] this question in expendables three what do you just yeah he's ex okay he's ex which of course
[01:21:00] is spelled ECKS of course who do exor sever had a notable joyous yes K a o s a tie director whose name
[01:21:10] is like which chaos and then you know he has a you know yeah a longer name but I do love that
[01:21:17] it's directed by chaos do you ever hate that we know this shit that all three of us were rushing
[01:21:22] to hold K on us um do remember do remember that movie um it was a remake a horror remake where the
[01:21:30] director was a mysterious character who only wore mask what movie is it it's like he was like
[01:21:38] gaff pumpkin he was like I'm not taking it off it's a remake but with a killer it's a killer
[01:21:41] kid movie remake with Vanessa Shaw in it and the director has a mysterious name and apparently
[01:21:48] only wore mask on set on say it wasn't just for press can the mystery of the mass director come out
[01:21:54] and play is the film uh and uh so Vanessa Shaw and Eba Moss back right seconds wow we all love both
[01:22:01] of them his name is mac can of mac you know and it is his only credit he is credit as director
[01:22:09] cinematographer editor sound department producer and writer Jesus uh but Vanessa Shaw though I love
[01:22:19] her yeah that's great okay so Ben Deris is drawn into Bay Wolf uh essentially right he's drafted
[01:22:30] into Bay right it's like okay chapter on a bay Wolf but we need a 13th guy Ben Deris you're in he's
[01:22:35] like okay uh and so they are going to go to the far north to um fight monsters um but we've got some
[01:22:45] great fish out of water stuff he's gotten Arabian horse they give him a bunch of shit about that
[01:22:50] the whole horse is too clean yeah right right he's not he's not as sort of mucky and yeah and gritty
[01:22:57] is them um but then in probably the best scene in the movie as you say he's like I know your language
[01:23:04] and they're like how and he's like I've been listening but like what you know it's such it's a really
[01:23:08] well shot well edited well mixed and well performed scene and it looks now like I'm watching
[01:23:14] like oh they shot this all in one night or whatever it's like it's really compressed and not
[01:23:21] hard to figure out how they did it but I just remember being so taken with like the progression of
[01:23:25] languages and it because it's not just English and whichever Scandinavian language which I don't
[01:23:31] know which the actor for speaking but then there's Latin mixed in two because his buddy speaks Latin
[01:23:36] and and that's how Omashoree communicate with them so it's the mingling of all three of those
[01:23:41] and the rhythm of it like watching now it's like yeah I see why this stuck with me because it is
[01:23:46] incredible you know symphony of of linguistics that culminates in a really good line delivery
[01:23:53] from band-airstri's like I listened which was a great line delivery and it was like that scene in
[01:23:58] them itself was great and I like movies about communication I like wing communication and language come
[01:24:03] in I don't speak any other language because I'm just terrible at learning them but yes I have studied
[01:24:10] language I studied Latin I have studied Klingon I um I've you love reading memoirs of translators
[01:24:18] and about how the art of translation works and this scene kind of like encapsulates in about a minute
[01:24:24] a half the way in which the brain can adjust and and learn to hear sounds and apply meaning to them
[01:24:32] and so anyway long story short I love that scene I still think it's a pretty darn good scene
[01:24:37] right and it is not a reason to watch this movie but if that scene exists on YouTube which I'm
[01:24:41] sure it does I would recommend it but it's also like the last scene in the movie
[01:24:47] that's like that yes yes like after that he's just kind of in the club and then it's just like
[01:24:53] okay now we are going to fight people in bare costumes in various local like there's this
[01:24:59] scene where he like sharpens his sword to make it in the Arabian style or whatever right which is
[01:25:05] shot poorly like it's a very long lens like from across the football field and then they just do
[01:25:11] like a series of jump cuts and it's just like well they're at a football game exactly it's um
[01:25:17] and I was like oh it's like what that again I was like did somewhat was this a different director
[01:25:22] doing this right well because like Tune-Az Peak is one of the all-time great anamorphic directors
[01:25:27] is so deliberate in his camera placement at all times yeah and I think there are some quotes in
[01:25:33] the dossier but like he was saying like look like Michael Cratton's a very literal minded man in the
[01:25:40] way he conveys information right or maybe it was a Ulrich the actor saying like the difference
[01:25:45] between their two styles but yeah that it's like you know the difference between trying to find a
[01:25:52] way to evoke something and convey something versus feeling the need to like directly explain it
[01:25:58] pointed to you and I think Cratton is just very literal with everything right right um which
[01:26:05] makes sense because that's his approach to filmmaking right like even in the good movies you kind
[01:26:12] of like them because they're not sensational he makes movies to serve his own stories but they yes
[01:26:19] they have a he directs them rather to protect his like screenplay Westworld and Koma are kind of
[01:26:23] straightforward even though they're about ludicrous they're fantastical but they have a
[01:26:27] lack of imagination yes right but like it did the the the incongruity of that is kind of weird yeah
[01:26:34] like Westworld truly is like ah fuck the robot shooting at me like you know like it's not like
[01:26:40] too grand about it it's like what if the fucking robot shot at you this movie needs to be
[01:26:44] pulpy or and he's a pulpier and it needs to have and needs to be scary yes because the antagonists
[01:26:51] are never scary no nor are they they should be nor are they interesting no nothing and and
[01:26:58] the book does a little bit more the book has a book as presented as a historical document right
[01:27:03] that has been translated and so it's full footnotes and like notes from translators about the
[01:27:08] various meanings of what the author the original author band Anderson's character may have meant
[01:27:13] or what it actually may have happened cool and then it has all these appendixes at the end
[01:27:20] describing it goes more into the history of the Neanderthal and about how cool the ears of the dead
[01:27:28] like like descended from them somehow descended from the Anderthals and also how long the
[01:27:33] Neanderthals existed as a species before they eventually died out like a long story modern man
[01:27:40] right we used to think it was like they were there we come along they're gone really fast
[01:27:44] yeah they kind of limped around for like thousands of years they were like quiznos while
[01:27:49] Subway was still going strong but what this needed didn't those all close fantastic comparison
[01:27:54] they're actually still around yes with this needed was more like pulpy or is right way to say
[01:27:59] because like the creature should have been like the descent and there's so much there's so much of
[01:28:03] this movie that is similar to the descent right in your watching just being like why am I not
[01:28:07] scared of like that's yes you've been getting to the throne room it's like bandarist is like
[01:28:13] no man could have done this and you're like actually ship to pile of skulls it's not that scary yeah
[01:28:17] where isn't the descent you're just like looking also at a pile of skulls with a a a matriarch
[01:28:21] of a underground society you're like this is utterly terrifying I think sims is going to
[01:28:26] sign exasperated sign a moment because this is a movie I invoke a weird amount okay
[01:28:31] lowery have you ever seen season of the witch in the cage one yes I would never
[01:28:35] size season which because I like season of the way I forgot you'd actually seen it I'm pro
[01:28:39] season of the rich I think really good yeah defend that as someone like the most sublime trash
[01:28:43] of the last 10 years in this sort of space yeah but like I and and I want the elevated mcternan
[01:28:50] movie of what I think that movie accomplishes right but that movie has the thing of like we are
[01:28:56] real nights in a real world we're budding up against something that feels supernatural and a lot
[01:29:01] of the movie is like is it possible yeah right to what extent is she actually a witch or
[01:29:07] versus yeah right and season the witch comes down a very definitive way at the end of it but like
[01:29:11] right even if this movie wants to in its foundation say these are things that will get translated
[01:29:18] and transmuted over centuries in storytelling into supernatural creatures perhaps they are
[01:29:23] terrifying humans you want them in practice to occupy a middle space I just or just make them
[01:29:32] fucking monster I was making my fucking part where they're like the fireworm is coming tonight
[01:29:35] you're like cool the fireworm can we see a firework and then just hard cut to a line of people
[01:29:41] holding torches yes and it's just like you could have had both you could have had this vision
[01:29:47] of this nightmare vision coming over the mountain side and then it turns I mean I remember in
[01:29:52] throwing a blood the kurosawa movie that all the trees coming forward is terrifying cool and then
[01:29:55] you're like oh it's just people carrying trees is right but this is exactly like I would love to see
[01:30:00] a movie that actually communicates right like imagine you're a Roman soldier right make it to
[01:30:05] Scotland and these like giant blue painted naked people charge out of the woods at you that feels
[01:30:11] supernatural yeah aliens like or whatever yeah exactly we found monsters up here it's like no they
[01:30:16] were just these crazy warriors but like even brave harder what you know I need to like it doesn't
[01:30:21] really capture I want something that does that and it's just wild for how much money this movie
[01:30:26] costs and it's on screen the sense that you're like wow huge sets so many extras so many props and
[01:30:31] costumes or whatever but you're like this things shot three times basically you have two reshoot
[01:30:36] units going on at the same time and no one's like hey maybe higher Greg Nick a tarot and come with
[01:30:41] a couple cool looks yeah you need like the headwork right there's like no iteration of this where people
[01:30:47] are like do we need more than a guy wearing a bear I think David needs to make this for me but
[01:30:53] just the idea of how are you need to make this for 20 minutes horny you know Arabian warrior gets in
[01:31:01] trouble at the court okay that's fun yeah start us off with some you know some of that and you
[01:31:07] know in fact feel free to make it for me and like and like but like and he should be like peak
[01:31:10] caulking right he's like really like the big man on campus these be like sorcerer we had this entire
[01:31:15] movie before yes exactly then okay he gets a horned on yeah now you're getting exiled you got
[01:31:20] to go up north okay goes up north you run to the Vikings the Vikings are different these stick
[01:31:24] with that that's fine he gets roped into this journey and then they're like yeah so it's like
[01:31:28] king raufgar and anyone in the audience who knows they should just like going into bear wolf
[01:31:32] and then yes I want them to go into it can be real it doesn't have to be monsters but like
[01:31:38] it needs a feel right like it's the buy-in to the like they're going into Vietnam or whatever
[01:31:44] and it's like I don't understand like like all the rules of combat are different or what you know
[01:31:49] like yeah like just like we're fighting an alien an enemy we don't understand I kept thinking
[01:31:54] instead we're fighting an enemy that's big right and in a bear suit severed heads can be really scary
[01:32:00] yeah like I remember I mean in cicario maybe where like they just are I mean this
[01:32:06] like unfortunately very true but just like using the display of severed heads to instill fear in one's
[01:32:10] enemy and it's really chilling really unsettling and these are monsters who take people's heads
[01:32:17] and they never show up again yeah like I was like what a missed opportunity once again I'm watching
[01:32:22] this tired stressed out distracted perhaps my comprehension was not at its peak sure but there
[01:32:28] was the moment where I went oh that's supposed to be grandal right and he went no had been on screen
[01:32:33] for many minutes at that point right right there's cool ideas like this Venus figurine like the famous
[01:32:40] you know ancient Venus figurine all truthful all full true right and they're like that sort of
[01:32:45] represents the mother of grandal windal whatever you know but I just feel like the back half of
[01:32:52] this movie is a bunch of people fighting in caves and dark forest and shit and you don't really
[01:32:59] you can see the action and there's not I mean aside from you just don't really feel a lot of
[01:33:03] tension yes yes yeah aside from the death scene that I mentioned earlier there's like nothing
[01:33:09] climactic about the movie like when they finally behead the head windal yeah or whatever it's
[01:33:16] like you don't even really notice it happen and then they just start retreating and you're like oh okay
[01:33:20] it's over also a movie like this where you got one big star above the title face on the poster most
[01:33:25] the cast are international actors you don't even recognize right you're like this is going to be
[01:33:29] the narrative of oh he actually was the hero right you assume there's gonna be some element of like
[01:33:35] he was the one who really slayed grandal or bay wolf was kind of an idea more than he was a hero
[01:33:41] or whatever the fuck it is and you're like no he's just basically from minute like 35 retreats into
[01:33:47] just standing around also being there watching should happen and it's like he does nothing to drive
[01:33:53] the story no at the end they say thanks they say thanks feel like good job you were there and he
[01:33:59] prays to a lot and he says he's like right he's like tell my story like it is in the bully wolf says
[01:34:05] like you know draw where draw sounds that's draw draw draw my sounds it makes sense if you're
[01:34:11] reading the book and is told by him yes but there's so little of that going on right that you're
[01:34:15] like he is the least active character for a guy who's a new caro for an hour and a half this
[01:34:21] is the problem with these adaptations often like of course the genius addressing park is it jumps
[01:34:25] from character to character right so there's no one who's just there being like you know day for
[01:34:30] Jurassic Park things getting bad you know like but like when you have the Nick caraway type guy like
[01:34:36] and all the great Gatsby movies are like what do we do about this character who just watches
[01:34:40] everything happen and then is like idly thinking about it late you know like you know like how do I
[01:34:46] represent that in a movie but it's also easier to do that even though yes that has been the issue of
[01:34:51] every dramatization of great Gatsby it's like well you just need to have another actor stand next
[01:34:56] to him and listen even if it's not exciting he feels present whereas if you're in a battlefield
[01:35:01] everyone's swinging swords you're like well it's hard to have the guy who's the observer and the
[01:35:05] listener yeah just be like in the middle of chaos when no one's talking and also not participating
[01:35:12] really like a little bit but I I feel like I'm a little more positive on this movie than you guys
[01:35:17] there's like four scenes I like but the real test when I was watching was like if you were channel
[01:35:21] surfing this was on TNT would you stick with it mm-hmm I am not hugely it's like a five out of 10 for me
[01:35:27] yeah it is not a movie where I'm like what an embarrassing yeah and it is not a movie as I thought
[01:35:32] it was going to be where I'm like incoherent yes clearly just so far to it that you can't even
[01:35:38] figure out what the movie was supposed to be like right in his saying he's like my cut isn't
[01:35:42] that different it's just like you know it's probably the difference of a few minutes right like yeah
[01:35:48] like but that's the problems are you know more in the adaptation I think and you know just like
[01:35:56] from the start they're kind of working with the wrong angles I like it less than you but there
[01:36:00] there are elements that grab me in the same way but it's just one of those movies where the whole
[01:36:04] time watching and I'm like this should rule well I can't it's like one of these movies like I like it
[01:36:08] a little bit here and there um and I've got fond memories of it yeah especially that one scene
[01:36:13] in the ending but I couldn't quite recommend it unless someone was really into seeing Vikings
[01:36:20] or adaptations of Baywolf or that all of the contextual things that mm-hmm or McTiernan
[01:36:25] wanting him to be a completist which I'm assuming this movie's about to get a large bump like
[01:36:29] the lot a bigger bump that has had in 20 years yes yeah it'll get at least a bump right exactly
[01:36:34] and some numbers are like something that are blinking it like the Disney you know touch
[01:36:39] stone office in the back 14th order great there's like lots of campaigns about the image quality
[01:36:48] Mac you remember to update the HD oh yeah I'll get right on that previously it was just a
[01:36:55] view master real about it is this iTunes wait I got something for you it's but it's really
[01:37:01] interesting watching it also as like the last epic of its sort because there's yeah aside from
[01:37:08] the there's like a visual effects department in the credits but I couldn't tell if there was any CG
[01:37:13] other than the boat mm-hmm I got C yet see that's right like in those those things could look better
[01:37:19] although it's kind of cool seeing it's still cool yeah and it doesn't look that much different than
[01:37:23] boats at sea now like that's what it's hard to do that right but the but it's it's a very analog
[01:37:28] movie yes and it has that which again I associate with McTiernan a lot is like that sort of
[01:37:36] starting in the 80s when film stocks became more naturalistic but still so the style came from how
[01:37:41] you lends it okay like you're not doing digital deizia you don't have the telucine controls
[01:37:48] beyond the red green blue or cyan magenta whatever please and this is and so it's got this very analog
[01:37:54] style that's very naturalistic mm-hmm whereas if you just to use another bike move to use the
[01:37:59] northman as an example it's so stylized because you have these new tools at your disposal directors
[01:38:04] are able to put that look that patina even lord of the rings a few years later which has a lot of
[01:38:12] the same scenes like yeah a lot of the same content yeah like monsters creatures attacking people
[01:38:19] in a wooden fort these guys are basically works yeah going into a cave that is full of skulls right
[01:38:24] and you just see the way in which modern filmmaking in the space of like just a couple years in that
[01:38:29] case took a big leap forward and allowed people to represent these these images with this with a
[01:38:35] different sort of style well McTiernan's also one of those guys who's like my visual inspirations are
[01:38:41] from fine art yes I'm not inspired by other movies yes right and like the transition point is
[01:38:49] happening already and is going to just become complete basically after him where you have very
[01:38:55] few people who's like way into movies isn't movies very true you know and aren't sort of like using
[01:39:01] the language of what they know and what they love and what they've come up with and it's not like this
[01:39:06] movie is particularly painterly but you do see him thinking about it visually in a way different to how
[01:39:14] Ridley Scott does when he makes these types of movies or Jackson or any of those people the movie
[01:39:20] I kept on thinking of that at times I felt like it was a voking some of the feeling of it's movie
[01:39:25] I prefer but for Hove and flesh and blood sure yes I prefer which similarly feels like
[01:39:30] I want to actually like be here that moves on very bright like it's mostly during the day it's more
[01:39:36] in during the day yeah and it has a sort of unhinged quality yes yeah obviously it's present in
[01:39:42] many of her hoven film and this does not have an unhinged quality right the Vikings in this are
[01:39:47] pretty serious warriors yeah without you know the humor is mostly like your horse is smaller but
[01:39:54] that's a movie where verhoven talks about mostly being inspired by Bosch paintings and being like I
[01:39:59] want to make a movie that feels like the art I want to make a movie that feels like the art of
[01:40:05] the time and the way putting that on the screen instead of our modern perspective are sure they
[01:40:11] are all Nazi yeah flesh and blood is a better film yeah it's I love them I love you too what are
[01:40:18] some other comps though because like this definitely is Northman is the most modern
[01:40:24] so when you say the film stocks got better like what does that mean well it's got more you
[01:40:29] you need less light for example like like like let's go to Lawrence or maybe which is also
[01:40:34] completely photograph like photo chemical movie to any David lean movie to use if we're
[01:40:39] gonna draw connections because of Omar Sharif you would have had you know the three-strip process
[01:40:46] then in the 70s of the film stock out a little faster and by the 80s it was it had a very distinct
[01:40:52] look that we kind of associate with that era of filmmaking right and extended it a year
[01:40:57] a year but also you didn't need as much light like you just literally could shoot more naturally
[01:41:02] realistically it's why you think of like 70s horror movies being so grainy because they're
[01:41:07] mostly the films that are set at nights yeah that couldn't work around it on technical level find
[01:41:12] some creative way to shoot day for night or whatever it is and so it's just like stocks being
[01:41:15] pushed really hard and then into the 90s you have that and then in the late 90s you get into
[01:41:22] well I guess Obrother is the first full DI but then all of a sudden that toolbox is available
[01:41:27] and everyone takes advantage of it within like two years it becomes the way to make movies right
[01:41:32] and so you don't get movies that look like this anymore both because you don't shoot on film
[01:41:36] if you do shoot on film the stock is different you don't have film stocks that look like this anymore
[01:41:40] the lens technology is now advanced everyone's like you know going further back in time getting
[01:41:44] retro lenses and everyone wants a movie to look like I think I there's so few directors now who have
[01:41:53] the the modesty I would say to have a film that doesn't have a signature style to it yeah
[01:41:59] and and McTiernan's movies are so robust and so strong like such strong direction but he's never been
[01:42:08] right like this is a McTiernan yeah you have a signature snap in this film or a dot like a
[01:42:13] Spike Lee dolly shop for example well I mean I think we talked at this when we did the episode of
[01:42:18] Willemann months ago now but it did reckon part one maybe now called dead reckoning part only
[01:42:25] dead reckoning part don't ask any questions and of sentence felt very McTiernan need to me yeah
[01:42:32] and then I've listened to the 15 hours of McCuary doing Empire podcast breakdown stuff yeah
[01:42:39] and he's just like I'm not riffing on anything I'm not referencing anything I like think that style is
[01:42:45] often like a crutch or gimmick if it's recognizable on a very surface level I'm like just trying
[01:42:51] to break down what do I need to convey when I need to emotionally narratively in this shot in
[01:42:57] this sequence like it's all just sort of problem solving for me and I'll do whatever I can to get
[01:43:02] there and I do think McTiernan has a similar approach which results in that movie having a similar style
[01:43:10] to his where like so much of the the quiet genius of McTiernan isn't his action sequences it's like
[01:43:17] the way he makes dialogue sequences as excited as the action sequences in his action movies right without
[01:43:23] doing crazy Michael Bay I'm just gonna keep the camera spinning and a thousand lights and filters
[01:43:29] just like flash flash flash kind of stuff so much of what we you know all the great moments from
[01:43:34] die harder actually not even the action like the ones we they're cited the most are not even the
[01:43:37] actions yeah but that does make it all the more frustrating to watch a movie where the cut has
[01:43:44] been taken away from him to some degree because even if it doesn't feel wildly compromised or like
[01:43:51] there is a secret masterpiece there you're like I just want to watch the guy unfettered yes I want
[01:43:56] to watch him try to tell us how he thinks this can be conveyed and when anything's interfering
[01:44:01] with that it gets hard to pluck it out what is your favorite McTiernan are you a McTiernan
[01:44:06] fan generally probably last action hero very David answer very David answer that movie was a huge
[01:44:13] deal to me yeah so how old were you you're like you're like a couple years older than me yeah
[01:44:18] yeah we're similar ages I was eight when that came I was 12 okay okay yeah um I was a little too
[01:44:25] young for it I was not versed enough in Schwarzenegger at that moment to really get it that makes sense
[01:44:32] yeah I had not seen the requisite Schwarzenegger's yet well it's also it comes out look we will have
[01:44:37] done the episode but the weirdness of that movie is like it's them doing the parody yeah yeah
[01:44:43] it's both of them right and they're riffing on themselves basically I remember can they get a
[01:44:50] way with that yeah I were buying into it so much that I thought the hamlet was coming out like
[01:44:56] like I thought that there was going to be a Schwarzenegger hamlet and I didn't realize that I should
[01:45:01] be yes it's not too late yeah that's what he should do now have you guys what yes fucking talked
[01:45:07] about Schwarzenegger so much I've seen everything I have not yet seen the movie the doc oh it's so good
[01:45:12] that's what I was good yeah but I've just been enjoying his press tour his Conan episodes
[01:45:17] and his Conan episode is excellent just I just really want him to have the slide that's exactly
[01:45:27] what performance exactly I think he is so capable of it yeah and I don't even need it to be
[01:45:32] prestige by the way no not at all but I feel like so often when he does step off the bench and act
[01:45:37] in something now you're like shouldn't this be a bigger deal I think he leans to Mimi in the like
[01:45:43] stuff he picks and I don't know if that's his people's fault or whatever you know like but I yeah
[01:45:48] anyway I can't they're gonna tell you something off my mic about this but yeah I just want him to do
[01:45:53] something like that or he does like this thing like aftermath that's like that movie that's like
[01:45:57] fairly sincere which like right which is like not bad yeah but maybe just needed a better you know
[01:46:03] whatever more sort of like umph behind it or something to really get across I don't know
[01:46:09] I just all this recent press I'm just like there is some sort of pathos that he feels like
[01:46:14] he is more in touch with now yes that someone needs to harvest the wealth of perspective that he has
[01:46:20] in all of his myriad careers and viewpoints and yes and everything and the fact that he's
[01:46:25] emerged from scandal or it's everything it's wild how candid he is now and candid in a way that is
[01:46:31] like very self-critical yeah he can be self-critical um and yeah I don't know like just
[01:46:41] I just feel like the slide dock is kind of the bad version of the Arne dock I know you probably
[01:46:47] haven't watched I haven't watched the slide dock yet no because I got that stuff in it yeah but
[01:46:51] if there's so much it doesn't want to talk about we know then it's like and then in the 90s I
[01:46:55] kind of lost it and I'm like no no nobody slow this down yes we just did so much on Rocky and
[01:47:02] Rambo we need to talk about the 90s he's like I don't know I you know then I tried with Copland
[01:47:08] and then we're like and I'm like no no we're not jumping to Copland like we're not doing that
[01:47:13] and then they can't talk about Creed at all because like he'll just start branding yeah so it's
[01:47:17] just not in it really anyway what would Schwarzenegger's Creed be would it be something like so like
[01:47:24] is there an existing thing that you could make a legacy to it would be Conan sure which is
[01:47:31] still vaguely threatens to make I mean he's recently restarted that conversation Conan is not the
[01:47:36] most sympathetic character Conan but there's the king Conan I mean the ending of conquer with him
[01:47:41] sitting on the throne and the sort of what now vibe has been this long promise of like can you
[01:47:45] make the sad old Conan movie and weren't Conan Chowski's going yeah do it at one point yeah
[01:47:51] was a concept yes and then it sort of got killed by the Momoa version and then the last year or
[01:47:56] two he's been like I might I might actually want to do it I mean I think he's very good in Terminator
[01:48:01] Dark Faith I do too I just think that he's tried every version of going back we're talking this
[01:48:06] which but already we're probably we will have for the last four months gone through McTuron and
[01:48:10] Schwarzenegger and the Terminator movies on patreon wait for that wait for that yeah um I mean
[01:48:17] the seventh day no I think it has to be something new I mean it's not it's not prestigious in the way
[01:48:24] that Crete is but like there was the rumor that he Cameron was gonna have Schwarzenegger be the human
[01:48:29] villain for the Avatar sequels right oh there was something so exciting about like oh using old Arnold
[01:48:35] yeah right and like suddenly having him be an energy doctor which is then a physical
[01:48:39] but I'm sure that conversation was like okay Arnie so you ready to live in New Zealand for two
[01:48:43] years he's like what no I have all my llamas I must feed every day what these fucking llamas they come
[01:48:48] into the house my wife left in fairness yeah you can't you can't bring your you can't bring your pet
[01:48:54] New Zealand keep saying it's my daughter my dog and then she does want to take her to the llamas
[01:48:58] anymore so now I have the llamas we must stop Trump wait excuse me these llamas they're hungry again
[01:49:05] um the 13th warrior do we have anything else to say about the 13th warrior before we move on to
[01:49:11] the release of the 13th warrior Baywolf dies uh succumbs to the poison of Grandel's mother
[01:49:18] uh and like literally it's just like oh by the way thanks Ahmad like you let him know about us right
[01:49:25] yeah and Benares is like 10-4 right and you've sort of like forgotten because he's gotten so lost
[01:49:31] in the shuffle the movie then ends with them all saying goodbye Muslim and then him delivering a voice
[01:49:35] over outro saying praise a lot and really yeah a loyal servant of God be fucking Muslim right
[01:49:41] this whole movie yeah yeah but apparently Disney was as you guys mentioned basically like cut as
[01:49:46] much of that as you can yeah and they probably were like well we can't cut it out right at the end
[01:49:50] they're like fine but lose it wherever you can yes um there's almost nothing else I want to say
[01:49:56] other than that I do like the callback to the funeral when they're all about to go into battle
[01:50:02] and they're all acknowledging they're about to die and it was a line I remember the omashri faz
[01:50:07] which was he's like you will not see this again it's the old way when the funeral happens
[01:50:10] which is clearly an ADR line but it's maybe one of the only good instances of post expository ADR
[01:50:17] actually benefiting the movie hmm I hate I just want to say I hate the
[01:50:21] ADR you were relaxed you're going to be like ADR drives me crazy I've been guilty of it sure
[01:50:26] sometimes under duress and I despise it when you have actors back to the camera and you're just
[01:50:32] putting dialogue like it but like and I also obviously bad at the art always clings off the back
[01:50:38] board when you see it or whatever but like you're a filmmaker so you know it immediately you know
[01:50:43] what I like your your your your your your eye is twitching the second you see it in any movie
[01:50:47] I assume 90% of audiences are like huh what do you mean right yeah the vibes are weird even
[01:50:53] if they never call it out it's like it's like oh I should be I should be seeing someone's face
[01:50:58] right now yeah yeah it can be done in offensively yeah I don't know about well but when it's done
[01:51:05] badly it's so awful yes I mean I guess my just final thing is I think this period of omashri
[01:51:12] for he's just like I can't do these fucking bullshit movies anymore right and then even like post
[01:51:17] hold on go he's sort of like quiet down for a couple years he's the narrator of role in emrics
[01:51:22] 10,000 BC and there's the other one what is it there's the sort of like biblical epic he does
[01:51:30] a one night with the king where it just feels like this final decade of his life as people being
[01:51:36] like we want to rent the like yeah the the automatic like credibility of omashri in our sort of
[01:51:43] like tragic prestige epic and every time aside from just killing his soul you're like the last thing
[01:51:51] you want to do in this movie is remind us of Lawrence of Arabia it is such a full-hardy move
[01:51:57] to put him in there and then have you just immediately draw the comparison to like wow they really
[01:52:02] don't make them like they used to yeah it's instantaneous in this movie it's like a bunch of people
[01:52:07] and horses cresting a hill and almost sure if he's there and you're like not as good and starts with
[01:52:12] him he's irrelevant and discarded so quickly but it just sets the tone your mind of like I immediately
[01:52:18] now know what this movie's failing to do right it's front of mine I'm not gonna forget it
[01:52:23] David yes I'll admit makes me a little self conscious what hosting a podcast
[01:52:29] well hosting a podcast that's produced by Ben Hossley because every time I walk into our studio I know
[01:52:34] I'm not going to be the best dressed person in the world sorry yes I just know it it's a losing
[01:52:40] battle it's never true there's nothing I can do to beat him if there's no service there's no company
[01:52:45] no one can help me yep that's it that's it I mean there's no one who's gonna help you wait
[01:52:50] a second what what about a fully custom shoot from Indochina don't walk into a wedding season
[01:52:56] into a wedding season yeah and wedding season looking like a million bucks even though they just
[01:53:01] started 499 but also let's make clear 499 yeah it's not $4.99 that would be absurd I mean
[01:53:08] you'd know then that the quality was not there let's also make clear good for wedding season but
[01:53:12] also just good for a weekly podcast record if you happen to be on a podcast produced by the best
[01:53:17] dressed man New York they start showing up in custom suits this podcast I might be annoyed
[01:53:22] Indochina the whole thing with Indochina it's not off the rack or whatever these are custom made
[01:53:27] suits you go to the website you shop your menswear obviously they don't just have suits they have
[01:53:31] jackets they have lots of nice things so you're telling me this is bespoke clothing yes it's bespoke
[01:53:38] clothing it just takes a few minutes you know you pick your suit and then you can customize it
[01:53:44] make it a tuxedo you can change the jacket style you can change the lapels you can change the vents
[01:53:50] every single thing is up to you or you can just go with what they want like you know if it's
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[01:54:48] film was released on august 27th 1999 august 27th where great movies like live although
[01:54:57] we wasn't the green night released around the middle of my business and it was a march isn't no it was
[01:55:02] like late July late July is far different yeah have you ever had a late august i've had a mid-art
[01:55:08] mid-art is dragon was a dragon in the dark but that mid-art is there there gems there later on
[01:55:14] this is usually tough to do the last weekend and now weirdly the first weekend of September has become
[01:55:19] a good weekend because of it right and like barbarian and like you know that there's usually some fun
[01:55:25] harm would be lurking but like last weekend of august is just the one-dune weekend that in first
[01:55:30] weekend in jane where i feel like um jump dumped in theater to august 27th no premiere right no
[01:55:37] premiere no press no press tomas crown affair had come out three weeks earlier where isn't the box
[01:55:44] office it's six okay it's six what's it up to it's made fifty million dollars it's doing just fine
[01:55:51] and what's way to seventy what is uh thirteen four year opening two uh well it's opening to ten
[01:55:57] okay on its way to thirty two mm-hmm so it actually kind of like i mean like to now just too strong
[01:56:04] but at least it's crazy yeah what's crazy now is like like a failure then still makes more
[01:56:10] money than a failure now yes right right because that movie today would drop off to two in
[01:56:16] a second yeah exactly you could see that movie being like you're it's just 68 percent drop and then
[01:56:21] third weekend they're like we're getting this out of fear yes like you know like it's going
[01:56:26] right to v o d or whatever yeah um so uh there's another movie dominating the box office six sounds
[01:56:33] yes six so number one like all the box office six how long like how long did it have left as
[01:56:39] number one six cents it has been number one for four weeks and is going to be number one for an
[01:56:45] additional week before uh stigmata comes and knocks it off ironically in its six week or was that
[01:56:50] the seventh week in its six week wow um but but who released this expense touch on Hollywood
[01:56:59] Hollywood well okay one of these two same thing correct and so they're kind of like we're in the money
[01:57:05] baby and like thirteen four year comes out like yeah who cares like we're in the money like you
[01:57:09] know they're happy well in six cents it also just like a notoriously thrifty production where
[01:57:16] they got Bruce Willis for like a heavy discount yeah that movie is so insanely profitable for them
[01:57:22] and it's just rolling and rolling and rolling that yeah it's just so funny that like
[01:57:26] Disney's basically covered their losses from this movie and McTuron has done the same
[01:57:32] with the movies that released three weeks earlier uh right and McTuron must have been doing press
[01:57:37] at that point for Thomas Kraut and they're like oh so what about this other movie you got coming
[01:57:42] and he's like what don't talk about yeah yeah let's see like uh cue lich of course once again the
[01:57:50] the one source on this movie basically said there was no premiere it was heartbreaking for all us
[01:57:55] fucking giant biking guys right yeah like it worked hard on this movie the only good review is Lisa
[01:58:00] Schwartzbaum who weirdly calls it audacious exhilarating wildly creative so she dug it loved it
[01:58:09] everyone else basically negged it and it was one of those things where even the reviews are like
[01:58:15] arriving with a high budget you know what I mean like it's reputation yes two years on the shelf yeah
[01:58:21] number one at the box office Griffin in its fourth week is the sixth sense what's it making
[01:58:25] in its fourth week 20 20 million dollars because that's your here's why you're guessing that it was making
[01:58:31] 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 yeah it like opens a 20 and just stayed there um do you like the six
[01:58:37] cents love the six cents it's the best it's a fucking master piss it's the best 13th warrior number two
[01:58:42] number three opening to 10 as I said number three um is a romantic comedy and it's fifth week
[01:58:49] it's doing amazing business uh run away Brian yeah uh a film I have not seen since 1999 I've never seen
[01:58:57] it do you know about the FedEx joke I think so what's the FedEx I don't think I've ever seen a line
[01:59:03] crushes hard as the FedEx Joe yes yes that bear she jumps on a FedEx truck do you remember the joke
[01:59:09] I do I saw I only know of this because of you talking about how hard it killed uh I just I
[01:59:14] right I just think of it so much but uh she jumps she runs away because all is she gonna run is
[01:59:19] she gonna write you know and she does yeah uh and she's doing the thing look her right you know
[01:59:24] she jumps in the back of a FedEx truck where is she going I think Julie Fisher no Rita Wilson sorry
[01:59:29] I always confused okay so Rita Fisher is like where is she going Rita Fisher and Hector Elizondo
[01:59:35] you know who is essentially yes the fucking you know Shaquille O'Neal of uh very much
[01:59:40] Marshall I know where they're just lobbing it up for everybody's like oh I'm ready
[01:59:43] just deadpan says I don't know but she'll be there by 10 30 tomorrow and like pretty good
[01:59:49] I just remember my entire audience basically like showering roses at the screen
[01:59:54] it's so funny any crush day Elizondo crush it Elizondo always crush
[02:00:01] David that might be a five time round the podcast even just hearing you recite it's
[02:00:06] that's weird oh boy uh okay so that's number three number three number four Blair Witch no
[02:00:15] uh Blair Witches eight okay uh it's been out for two months I guess I played one twenty eight at
[02:00:22] one point did start dropping did do you like the Blair Witch Roger yeah that's great too okay
[02:00:26] I just were okay well this was a this was a mate this was the summer I graduate high school right
[02:00:31] so I was about to say if I'm 13 you're basically right yeah so they came out
[02:00:35] under the summer and it was like a milestone summer not just because of 99 is famously
[02:00:41] uh you know what are the best year ever best movie year ever is that name of the book yes yeah
[02:00:44] and it was also just a pivotal year in my life so like every move I saw every single movie
[02:00:50] that summer yep and uh have fond memories of all of them because of where I was in life um
[02:00:55] I just look at these box offices even the flops like the 13th warrior I'm just like yeah we never
[02:01:01] had it so good yeah number four it's uh an acidic Hollywood comedy a great film about Hollywood yeah
[02:01:09] oh it's also from Hollywood both finger both the great both finger um which obviously was just
[02:01:15] a medium hit yeah but enough of a hit and I think enough of a critical hit that everyone just kind
[02:01:21] of came out of that one looking good yeah yeah and a movie that as I find so to temek for anyone
[02:01:26] I know who works in film I've been really one of the great depictions of I haven't read I haven't
[02:01:33] watched it in the past 15 years I really want to see it now having been on more sets yeah and experience
[02:01:37] more I just want to read maybe I'll do that tonight it's so good and Murphy is it's it's it's one of
[02:01:43] the best performances in the history of movie he's so fucking funny um number five of the box office
[02:01:51] we'll do it one day both finger I mean we might do both finger one day frank os I'm gonna put on the
[02:01:58] bracket yeah but no no we'll do this film as a commentary one day because we decided to include it
[02:02:03] in a trilogy that it is not a part of what's it called Mickey blue eyes yes do you know about our
[02:02:09] jelly trilogy no have you seen analyze this yes you familiar with jelly play yeah yes yes yes
[02:02:16] okay so joe vitorelli is also in Mickey blue eyes playing a jelly-esque character yeah so we decided
[02:02:23] right we made an offhand joke at one point that maybe we do analyze this and analyze that on our
[02:02:28] patreon so we could say we're doing a little this all that right you say Ross Perry has loved
[02:02:34] that joke hold held onto it for years pushed us to actually come into doing it at one point we
[02:02:39] are like two just feels a little slight for only two movies so we have canonized Mickey blue eyes
[02:02:45] in which joe vitorelli official plays a very similar role as to our own jelly trilogy just have
[02:02:53] fun with Mickey blue eyes we would director that one oh it's a total rando you're not really you're
[02:03:04] not who is it Kelly make it okay no I was actually not gonna get it no were you about to say
[02:03:09] something about Mickey the director of kids in the home brain candy I was gonna I was gonna say
[02:03:12] that when you said jelly trilogy my brain instantly before explaining it went to like notable
[02:03:17] movies with jelly in them and the first thing was jelly of the month club and christmas vacation uh-huh
[02:03:22] and this is all in the span of like the two seconds before you revealed it was actually the character
[02:03:25] yeah yeah yeah I was trying to think of like what other movies have jelly what other movies have jelly
[02:03:29] gospel park has jam I just I just rewatch gospel park yesterday has Tom home to eat and jam
[02:03:34] and a jam closet hmm but that's that's part of a jam trilogy that we'd have to split into
[02:03:39] something um number six Thomas crown affair what which I remember loving it's super good and and
[02:03:48] when you mentioned that mccurian has a a fine art point of view like they're literally because
[02:03:54] I if I recall he picked all the paintings that including of course the migraine but also that
[02:03:59] movie makes so much sense as the guy walking straight off of thirteenth warrior this movie still
[02:04:04] hasn't been released and he's like I know I have like an atomic bomb that is going to get dropped
[02:04:09] at some fascinating I need to direct this next movie like my life depends upon it it just has to
[02:04:14] be uncomplicated like fucking home run number seven mm-hmm there's a lot of flops opening this week
[02:04:23] so this is new this week this is the weekend that started the box office game in our podcast is
[02:04:28] the sixth sense weekend where six cents hits and everything else bombs um yes exactly right
[02:04:35] everything's just kind of bouncing off the six cents in August was like a dumping ground and like
[02:04:40] you have the July movies staying strong you have six cents killing it Thomas crown was the one
[02:04:45] that's sort of surprisingly held and then they're just dumping bullshit so I've never seen this film
[02:04:49] uh it's a Michael Rimer film I know Michael Maire best because he worked on battle circle actica
[02:04:54] okay uh it's called in too deep yes um our ups and oh cool Jay oh sure uh
[02:05:02] s don't know much about it but I think it's like Omar F.S isn't undercover cop hello cool jazic gangster
[02:05:06] it's kind of like new jack city but worse I guess I have a very distinct memory of watching it but
[02:05:11] it was like it my memories that was like a year later I'm shocked that it came out at 99 I'm just
[02:05:15] picturing is someone going into studios and here's the pitch it's like new jack city but worse
[02:05:20] that that was part of the cell you know good enough right and then Michael Rimer went on to do
[02:05:25] Queen of the damned whichever is ever being like wow like what a strange jump I mean also just like
[02:05:31] why why like hand that property no offense to Michael Rimer but it's like kind of a journeyman
[02:05:37] guy like yes whatever um number eight is Blair Witch number nine opening this weekend bombing is
[02:05:44] the astronauts wife like a huge bomb yeah that movie was expensive yeah uh number 10
[02:05:51] opening this weekend bombing is Albert Brooks is the muse a giant bomb yeah pretty funny movie
[02:05:57] yeah in my memory like having seen it in years almost used to be tax right off season and number 11
[02:06:02] opening outside of the top 10 Dudley do right yeah with uh Brendan Frazier for colossal flop giant
[02:06:08] flops everywhere but like we're in a in an era where the internet and internet fan culture is still
[02:06:14] so nascent right is basically just hearing holes and such right at this point in time you're like if
[02:06:20] you just cram a movie that you know as a mess into the last two weeks of august you can kind of
[02:06:26] like throw up your hands and go like well competition yeah and you're like your competition was
[02:06:30] other flops but like studios would just be pushing 10 crappy movies into these like final
[02:06:35] four doors but how much did Dudley do right ultimately leg out to like what was it's
[02:06:39] an open to three made it to nine point eight so even a three extra
[02:06:44] multiple it's left wide head in the dust yeah the muse opened to four and made it to eleven okay
[02:06:54] astronauts wife opened to four and made it to ten not great no uh an into deep open to four
[02:07:01] and made it to fourteen well uh word of mouth sensation uh but then of course yes you have the
[02:07:07] six cents uh runaway bride and um the Blair Witch project are just all massive massive massive hits
[02:07:14] well also just three weeks later like in the graveyard are dick iron giants mystery men
[02:07:24] uh yeah like those movies are out of theaters now Mrs. Tingle was taught she but she did not learn
[02:07:29] a lot like you said iron giant mystery men um broke down palace like lake placid which like
[02:07:37] wasn't actually hit yeah they kind of pretended it was yeah and it's still regard like still mentioned
[02:07:42] often yes didn't actually do well you know like drop dead gorgeous that was a bomb yeah
[02:07:47] too dark i'm good movie to be clear to dark dunce august comedies obviously like
[02:07:53] ice white shut yeah came out a couple months ago and did okay for a three hour conspiracy thriller
[02:07:59] sex movie but like you know underperformed in a way but even listening all of these movies
[02:08:04] and you know it in a way you could say it's puncturing the myth of nineteen ninety nine is being
[02:08:08] the best movie or ever but like i have fond memories of all these movies yes that's a thing they're
[02:08:12] all they're all fun even if they're just fine or even if they're bad i don't know
[02:08:15] fond memories of inspector gadget no deep blue sea deep blue sea definitely yes
[02:08:21] yeah 100% deep blue sea the thing with nineteen ninety nine is deep blue sea is to cgi as the
[02:08:25] thirteen four year is to like not not see that deep blue sea is like can we just add some more cgi
[02:08:30] in the scene like it's gonna look terrible we can get away with it um no thing when ninety nine is
[02:08:35] like you take out the masterpieces it still just feels like maybe the last year where like
[02:08:41] an arguably film is at the center of the monoculture yes in america right
[02:08:47] like it's not just one movie that's captured everyone's attention or whatever but you're like
[02:08:52] people were excited about the oscar movies they were excited about all these summer blockbusters
[02:08:56] there was even interest in which movies were flopping like it was just peak kind of populist film
[02:09:01] culture and you'd go see all them like the fact that the movie that opened outside of the top 10
[02:09:05] still made it to over ten million is like people went it's this dumb stat i will throw out but like
[02:09:12] i've said this before the haunting and six cents were the only two movies between may and
[02:09:17] august that opens a number one didn't make a hundred million dollars with six cents i'm sorry not
[02:09:23] six cents um uh eyes wide shut yeah haunting eyes wide shut everything else haunting stinks yeah
[02:09:30] Alex was trying to sell us on that not stinking recent he's trying to he's developing
[02:09:35] he was doing this to you two yes yeah he was kind of going like jandabont like you know
[02:09:39] disrespected and i was like no as much as i love speed and enjoy twister exact amount of
[02:09:45] respect he does right i don't think like the haunting stinks in my memory it's
[02:09:50] uh all i remember i was telling out all i remember is liam nison getting drowned by a giant statue
[02:09:56] and at that point checking out because ghosts shouldn't be able to do that and i was like i had a
[02:10:00] very stir i was like very logically i was like i can accept faces appearing in the banister or whatever
[02:10:06] but i can i can't accept this statue in the garden grabbing liam nison and driving
[02:10:11] i was just saying why is that guy directed nothing in 21 years like mctuin and you're like he went
[02:10:16] to jail he had several like he locked his ass off right i understand why he disappeared
[02:10:22] jandabont hasn't done anything since tomb raider two not a commercial no he hasn't yeah he hasn't
[02:10:26] done like a foreign film he hasn't like directed tv he may have just quit because he didn't want to do
[02:10:32] it anymore and he had money it's just fascinating just like we're tired of some dutch farmhouse
[02:10:36] it was like i made twister like opened a restaurant probably like he's like man massively successful
[02:10:41] those guys usually you want to use roast squash for people usually you find out like oh he directed
[02:10:46] one of those in 20th anniversary red box movies and it's depressing to know that that's what
[02:10:49] yandabont's doing and it's like no he seemingly just walked away chillin i will say that unfortunately
[02:10:55] Alex is prodding on this has made me think do i need to watch the only on the bond i've never seen
[02:11:00] which is Lara Croft too which i did not see on account of nobody liked it so i always figured
[02:11:05] i'd skip that but now i'm like do i have to see that make sure it's not a hidden gem yeah
[02:11:09] you seen the cradle of life i saw it when it opened and i watched the first 10 minutes on netflix
[02:11:15] when it was on netflix within the past five years because sometimes i just want to see what movies
[02:11:19] were like then like so yes yes yes yes yes even in remember that was two thousand two three three
[02:11:25] even the leap from then to now it's like it's huge like you look at the beginning of that movie
[02:11:31] you're like that's unreleasedable uh that's making me want to see it more there's like a
[02:11:37] big there's this big earthquake sequence yeah and it's very cheap like like it's like nowadays
[02:11:43] would be like giant CGI cracks in the earth just splitting open and cities falling in and
[02:11:49] in in 2003 they're still just shaking the camera oh yeah again long winds camera shake how to rent
[02:11:56] Lara Croft tune rate of the cradle of life now there's a colon and a hyphen yeah
[02:12:03] because it's colon Lara Croft colon tomb raider right hyphen the cradle of life right they didn't have
[02:12:09] the guts to just call it tomb raider um both of you know yeah it was only the vikander movie where
[02:12:13] they're finally like we think we think you know what tomb raider is drop the Lara Croft it's right yes
[02:12:19] um the 13th warrior yes obviously like the next film we're covering is roller ball
[02:12:28] but in a way the next film he made was the Thomas Crown affair right but obviously this came out after
[02:12:33] this is a bit of a tenet yeah in terms of release order it almost feels unfair to do this after
[02:12:39] Thomas crown because Thomas crown is the one that lingers and indeed I was like I thought it came
[02:12:43] out and it's his response film yeah yeah to at least the experience of making this roller ball
[02:12:49] is a film I have never seen same uh again didn't see because at the time the word was
[02:12:55] skippable yeah I was like excited to see it me too and everyone was like you cannot
[02:13:01] you can't go you can't you're not you're not allowed to go did you see I saw roller ball
[02:13:06] roller ball and I saw basic which I thought again I thought it was inverted I thought basic
[02:13:11] basic is the last the last one the last one basic I saw on it but those are the same year as well
[02:13:16] no it's 2002 in 2003 okay I mean who knows yeah roller ball was actually released like maybe
[02:13:22] no yeah it was yeah it was but um basic I saw on DVD in like like the out of rondex on an 18-inch
[02:13:30] television I have no memory of it at all I know it has a twist I always get confused between basic
[02:13:35] generals daughter two driveled military movies and then one of the rules of engagement yeah
[02:13:41] I they all kind of combined those three and the free can move the hunt it I see I get there's a
[02:13:47] chain there oh I can see for me I just hold in the hunter at a whole angle that was going to talk about
[02:13:53] how if McTiernan if he is of the dead had been successful oh we're gonna swap everyone around
[02:13:58] and it'll be good oh yeah no no he is of the end of his successful and was released under that
[02:14:02] title yes and McTiernan could have gone on a similar path to what Freakin was doing in that era
[02:14:09] because he started to do really interesting things um following the the failure of Jade
[02:14:16] and getting the chance to make things like um well he did after JD does rules of engagement
[02:14:22] and the hunted and the hunt is great well my memory both of those movies are good my memories that's
[02:14:26] great and both of those movies are him taking like a pulpy mediocre Hollywood script and doing some
[02:14:31] cool things with amazing actors and the hunt is another one of those movies where uh one man dies
[02:14:36] in front of another and you're there in my favorite trope yeah yeah a man sitting down to die and his
[02:14:42] pier slash enemy slash friend uh watching and and maybe holding his hand have you ever done this in
[02:14:48] one of your movies I haven't because I've always been trying to do the opposite which has been like
[02:14:53] this person's not worth caring about so like anybody saints was all about case yeah looks care
[02:14:59] you're thinking he'd have that type of death and being like actually no you're not worth it
[02:15:02] yeah and then Peter Pan same thing was like actually you suck like I you don't even have a lot of
[02:15:07] deaths in your movies now that I'm thinking about it no I mean I mean green night sort of again
[02:15:13] is an also account for that takes you right up to the moment of death and and and that one worked
[02:15:19] I think yeah it works yeah but yeah I'm always like I'm like for better or worse being like how
[02:15:25] can I puncture the mythology rather than like embellish it um right but maybe you should do but maybe
[02:15:31] I shouldn't be like maybe that's what I've been missing you need heat you know yes he of course the
[02:15:36] ultimate example of two men reaching out to each other is one dies yeah I think that's certainly
[02:15:41] where my brain goes yep just throw some mobion there you know over and moving over still waters yeah
[02:15:47] yeah exactly um but no it is funny to think yeah meh Friedkin's little 2000s run there is interesting
[02:15:53] it's kind of like when Coppola did the rainmaker and stuff yeah where he's like well let me just do
[02:15:58] this and you're like hey I like that rainmaker's on the line for it it is I know that's what only
[02:16:03] if Jack was good right but Jack is like no one but Jack's before it rainmaker yeah but if only
[02:16:09] you know if he had like three in a way I mean obviously wearing a wearing a dress or a
[02:16:12] dress shirt yeah shirt today like if Coppola had like three solid that was my surprise and re
[02:16:18] watching not rewatching watching rainmaker for the first time how do you be surprised I've been telling
[02:16:22] you that movies good for me but I'm like this movie is like a real awakening for him this doesn't
[02:16:26] feel like I don't need to more and then his response to that movie is great I'm out of debt the line
[02:16:30] selling right I don't need to make another movie for nine years that shares got my name all over it
[02:16:36] I'm gonna sit yeah um oh man you've got it you should do not the whole well you could do the whole
[02:16:42] career but you do do like the the four like youth without youth tetra twixed and then megalopolis yeah
[02:16:52] before self-finance well I can always find a slot to do all the things you get to do one from the heart
[02:16:56] yeah I think we would just do all of him and smush the first four into two episodes right yeah or
[02:17:02] even one episode now we can't do that Finneon's rainbow rain people so it's dementia 13 in your big
[02:17:08] boy now are obviously going into one episode and then I think Finneon's rainbow and the rain people
[02:17:13] could probably be in one percent and then he made this movie called the godfather
[02:17:20] after that father I mean after that you're in you're in great territory captain E.O goes on
[02:17:25] patreon you do the New York stories on patreon right that'd be fun if we ended up being like yeah
[02:17:33] yeah we're gonna do New York stories on patreon two out of three what I was gonna say we do it
[02:17:38] twilights on the movie exactly really every part of this but one except for the one um yeah he'd be good
[02:17:45] yeah I'm excited for that megalopolis oh very excited I hope it's good yeah I hope it's just
[02:17:51] I don't think it will be but I just don't want it to be like the gilliam donky hoodie movie
[02:17:56] yes it's weird like everyone was like oh yeah I came out and I was like hmm this is a sea like
[02:18:01] how could that be I mean we'll never stop talking about how weird it is that that movie is
[02:18:06] not great it's a but also able to watch at any moment not it does that stir yeah yeah we're like
[02:18:11] it's actually all right how long how long between its release after it's released did you see it
[02:18:17] because that was the other thing was like I was like oh it came out I haven't seen it yet yeah I
[02:18:20] should I should watch that I think I saw it as screening because I was like well I gotta see it
[02:18:27] like I've been waiting for this movie my whole life yeah right yeah I'll go see it and then I saw
[02:18:32] it and I was like hmm also also if you have a passion project you've been trying to make for 20
[02:18:38] years the key is Adam driver yeah that is true yep Ferrari is there a third one
[02:18:44] like a lot less well by a lot of us right yeah 65 they would try to make that for 25 years it was
[02:18:49] originally 45 do you see 65 no see this is the problem Larry when you come on the show is we don't
[02:18:56] see you enough so then the episodes get this extra 40 minutes of us being like what else what else
[02:19:00] yeah I saw 65 in Germany really and I saw it in German because most movies there are dubbed yes
[02:19:07] so you you have to seek out the English yeah language just greenings and I was like I'm
[02:19:12] driver of his dinosaurs like this probably very much down because you're gonna need right should be
[02:19:17] actually in six it actually was great yeah really maybe and so then I um reached out to
[02:19:24] the directors to say hey saw your movie in Germany had a great time and they were like
[02:19:29] the movie was written to be in an alien language and it was going to be a hundred percent
[02:19:33] in alien language with no subtitles no subtitles and that's what we all set out to make
[02:19:39] and right before shooting they so when he was like you have to do an English I just imagined
[02:19:43] some guy in a chair so what huh so they're like they're like you 100 percent had the better
[02:19:50] viewing experience and you saw it the way we intended because you didn't understand what
[02:19:53] anyone was saying that is interesting because I do think that movie would function better right as
[02:20:00] just like the broadest emotional strokes anyway that's that's interesting but I might not want
[02:20:06] that out there so yeah maybe we can just a long sustained beat that would be funny if you're
[02:20:11] like ISO 65 in Germany beat just like two minutes and then we're like at the end wow how easy
[02:20:17] interesting what what was 65 was there something different about it I won't stop thinking about
[02:20:24] what you just said all right uh Laura thank you for being here it's been great to be back uh you
[02:20:30] gotta come back sooner yeah you've been busy and there was a pandemic yeah but you got to come back
[02:20:36] sooner yeah and I will you know last time I was on I left that night went to go see Mulan Rooze with
[02:20:44] um Alex and Anna oh sure and on Broadway yeah on Broadway and then at the intermission I check
[02:20:49] my phone and there was a phone call saying um cancel your plans tomorrow we have to have a green
[02:20:55] light meeting because Disney wants to make Peter Pan right so I'm curious what's gonna happen tonight
[02:20:59] right what wow what will get like yeah exactly like like what good or bad decision I will make in the
[02:21:05] next 24 hours and I uh so there's a lot a lot of a potential out there wow wow uh wow wow
[02:21:13] wow wow car's reboot that's what they're going to pitch you cars for you know but whatever it is
[02:21:18] whatever it is forky's gonna be in it we guys I don't know this we have to acknowledge it quickly
[02:21:25] we last time you were on we're talking about forky I go forky's a star people should put him
[02:21:30] in more movies you go I will do that right so green night had not yet been made or we'd made it
[02:21:36] but there were still a couple we did like we did like three days of pickups yeah and I and I made
[02:21:42] sure forky was in us it's unfortunate that robber refer doesn't like eat with forky a diner at some
[02:21:47] point that would have been fun the only reason to go do a uh uh special edition of the old man the
[02:21:52] gun it's a forky as well also you could change all the guns to walkie talkie yes several reference to
[02:21:57] ET but don't change the title but not change the title we didn't publicly acknowledge this for years
[02:22:02] and you would text me from set and you're like here's the new forky the art department's whipped up
[02:22:06] we have I have a right so in green light even forky and a pirate forky right somewhere in my
[02:22:11] mind there's during the puppet show one of the children is holding a medieval forky can you see it
[02:22:16] it's very small in the frame yes like dead center but I have a pan it's like in there a fair amount
[02:22:22] if you think six lead pure pan was on set a lot right and one of the lot kids was caring forky
[02:22:29] around a lot there's one sequence where he's in like more shots so much yeah it's a kid that has
[02:22:34] like lots little jokes and so we'd always like just like have a response to this and there's we
[02:22:39] shot way more there's a lot more forky in there before he does he picks out forky in your new movie
[02:22:43] and forky will be in the new movie because you've been texting me about like going through the design
[02:22:49] stages of how forky will fit into the next movie you've committed to this thing 100 percent I've
[02:22:54] do you think you should make a future movie so there can be some kind of like cyber forky
[02:22:58] totally like other kinds of forky yes but the funniest thing was like someone on the reddit posted
[02:23:03] like because people would be like I just listened this episode from four years ago was this thread
[02:23:07] ever picked up right and this is after Peter Pan had come out Peter Pan and Wendy and they were like
[02:23:12] lower made this joke about putting forky in all these movies I guess he never lived up to it
[02:23:16] and I texted you when I was like am I allowed to tell them this feels so annoying that no one's
[02:23:21] found it right and the guy sniffing and I just post it and I was like he's in there he's in both
[02:23:26] of the movies and in your pants hard to see but if like like but if you know what to look there's
[02:23:32] one spot yeah is Tony Hill aware of this no wow do we want to make him aware yes I feel like
[02:23:42] you should be you should I feel like we can tell him somehow it's one of the roles it's not like
[02:23:47] he's losing six together and find some action to Tony Hill it's a tribute yeah we know Tim
[02:23:53] Simons yeah Tim hey you're in your car right now probably texting us via Siri which is what you do
[02:23:59] when you listen to these episodes we get texts from Tim like Griffin does your mom did your mom like
[02:24:06] me when I was on the podcast sent with Siri yeah but I'm just like you had to say that allowed
[02:24:11] Tim so yeah call Tony if you if your friends with them the other the other thing with Tim is today
[02:24:17] this morning he texted us something that sounded like a huge insult was coming right and it seemingly
[02:24:22] was just him being nice but every sense he said ended with a tone that felt like it was going to be
[02:24:27] followed by but it was like guys I really like listening to you talk about movies and I'm glad we're
[02:24:32] friends yeah but he never said and then the next text was like I think you're very nice and very
[02:24:37] smart and we were like what's what's this hammer you're holding the most cutting thing is about to
[02:24:44] come down on me all right okay all right David you're the best thank you excited to be here
[02:24:51] I had to take that lowery you're the best you are thank you for being here we'll have you
[02:24:57] on again sooner uh thank you for being here and thank you for volunteering as you always do
[02:25:02] well not sleepy hollus so much but this is truth about Charlie to take the movie no one was really
[02:25:06] you know like pumping for but I also I didn't say to you here's what still play I said
[02:25:12] mctearnan is on deck and you said 13th where this was the one that I would be like most excited
[02:25:17] rewatch right now yeah yeah uh no it fit if it perfectly thank you for being here and thank
[02:25:24] all of you out there for listening please remember to rate review and subscribe thank you to
[02:25:29] Marie Barney for our social media helping to produce the show thank you to Ben Frisch for jumping
[02:25:35] in today you're welcome we'll call you back in when we do a words of virtue yep got to now
[02:25:40] that's the book yep on the spreadsheet uh thank you to lame monk ummering the great american
[02:25:48] novel for our theme song Alex baron and agent McKinne for our editing jg birch for our research
[02:25:55] pat Reynolds and joe bowin for our artwork you can go to blankcheck pod dot com for links to some
[02:26:00] real nerdy shit like our patreon blankcheck special features where we do franchise commentaries
[02:26:07] if you liked us talk about Arnold for five minutes they're now five episodes of that yep
[02:26:13] uh so that's the thing you can listen to there tune in next week for roller ball
[02:26:18] yeah and as always and as always I wish for he had been in the 13th world
[02:26:30] you