The Curious Case of Benjamin Button with Richard Lawson

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the neighbors are shy with Blank Check Some people were born to sit by a river Some get struck by lightning

[00:00:27] Some have an ear for music Some are artists Some swim Some know buttons Some know Shakespeare Some are mothers And some people podcast That was good Hello, thank you I can't do this for very long You can't do this, boy, for very long

[00:00:50] So one is doing Fran Lebowitz and the other is doing Tom Waits in shortcuts There's no good restaurants anymore New York is here, come on! We should just say that we are all in fact old That's how the episode is starting out, we're all very old

[00:01:05] Can't rightly walk, can I? David's in a wicker wheelchair We gonna end this episode in the crib But we starting one foot in the grave Do you know, have any of you read the short story? Ow The Curious Case of Benjamin Button by F. Scott Fitzgerald

[00:01:24] The drunkest short story you ever wrote I read it You read it? In preparation for this It's only 20 pages long It doesn't have too much in common with the film, right? It's quite different Ask me how many pages it is

[00:01:35] You said 20, so I'm gonna ask you how many pages it is 20, but it feels a lot longer That just feels like it was like Whatever, go, age backwards And they're like, yeah sure Scott, can you fucking Where's your novel? He's like, I just gotta go get some cigarettes

[00:01:56] I don't know why I'm doing this That's how we talk It's about him waking up with a hangover, feeling really old And by the end of the night, he's kind of like Goo goo ga ga baby drunk

[00:02:07] Every impression we do in this episode is gonna end up being It's gonna be like this I look a lot older Man You know who I love? Who? Benjamin Button? Yeah, especially that flavor Of Benjamin Button I want that guy around

[00:02:27] One of the 10 coolest characters we've ever covered on this podcast Like he should be on Jackass Snake Bliskin You know, just hanging out with everyone else Seven year old Benjamin Button Neo from the Matrix The Terminator Ripley Who are the biggest badasses we've ever covered on this show?

[00:02:46] I was just gonna ask if Brad Pitt is the only actor Other than Thornton obviously to be nominated for doing a sling blade Yeah For at least half of this movie Fried potatoes He's gone full sling blade for at least a good chunk of it

[00:03:01] The thing I was gonna say about the story Yeah, F. Scott Fitzgerald In the story He kind of talked like this I don't know, what did he talk like? Old sport? Yeah, sure I don't know, take a swing I never heard him on the, you know, phonograph

[00:03:15] Alright, the story Your rock cylinder collection is not great by the way The last time I was at your place I was leafing through it I fucking, you know, put a wick in one of them and lit it by mistake I was taking a bath You have rumors

[00:03:27] I have rumors, yeah I'm born to run Yeah I've got no jacket required No deep cuts though, no deep cuts The thing in the story is it's like the father goes Walk around the block pacing And waiting for the doctor to come out with the cigar

[00:03:43] The son, it's a boy Congratulations, right? Right, he goes to the post office He gets his residual check for LXG How to baby eats a boy Had to make a Jason Fleming joke Doctor walks out, he's like I'm ruined, I'm ruined, I tell ya And he's like

[00:04:00] What happened? Is it a boy, is it a girl? And he's like It's something so awful They'll take my degree away Your family is banned from this hospital forever And the accents are written phonetically Exactly the way I'm doing them right now And he's like

[00:04:12] Tell me what it is He's like I can't tell you You go in there, you see for yourself And he walks in and the nurses are like Oh curse you, curse you Mr. Button And he's like What happened, what was so bad?

[00:04:21] Point to me, which one is my baby? It's that one over there And it is a little old man with a long beard Who's like, hello father He's not a baby Right, he has an old man He has an old man

[00:04:32] Like an old man just kind of tiptoed out of His wife's vagina It's Richard Farnsworth on a tractor Basically That's how it's presented And they're like We have to swallow you in a blanket He's like, blanket? That's no clothes for an old man Let's go watch Matlock

[00:04:45] A fully sentient old man Correct With like his own personality and history It makes sense when you hear that the first version Of this movie to like properly be set up Was Frank Oz directing as a Martin Short vehicle Oh my god Which is basically like Right Ben?

[00:05:01] That sounds good It's a real path not taken moment It's true It's basically a Clifford sequel Basically Clifford Clifford the whole life This might have predated Clifford or was it right after? I think it probably is around the same time

[00:05:14] But I do think it was optioned in the 80s We'll dig in obviously But that's what you think about Martin Short playing a literal old man In like probably I assume it was meant to be a modern day adaptation But like going to school

[00:05:26] It sounds really fun and entertaining It sounds great We would have gotten Jiminy Glick that much earlier You know? I feel like that would be sort of the voice Imagine Jiminy Glick interviewing 7 year old Benjamin Button How funny would that have been?

[00:05:40] No you say you're 7 but you look a lot older This movie But you look a lot older They look a lot older don't you? Jiminy Glick is 7 Look this episode is coming out a little bit later Martin Short has been defended on the internet

[00:05:58] The worst take on the internet and I don't say that lightly was dropped And as a reward for us all having to only read the headline And not read the body of that piece We had the best 4 days of the internet in a long time

[00:06:12] Which was just everyone sharing Martin Short clips And my new favorite Glickism is when a guest makes a joke And he goes like I almost get it Exactly He laughs first and then says I don't think I understand The way this movie

[00:06:30] I mean sort of like the magic trick of this movie Is like building to the moment where you have Brad Pitt at the exact midpoint Where he finally gets to be Brad Pitt Where he's not de-aged He's not kicked in makeup and whatever

[00:06:42] It'd be so funny if the Martin Short movie His perfect moment in the middle was Glick That's when he's ideal He glicks it It all glicks together And that's when he gets with his love interest And she's like we're meeting in the middle Yeah his love interest Dixie

[00:06:59] Yeah exactly it's Dixie Listen this is Blank Check with Griffin and David I am Griffin I'm David I look a lot older I look a lot simser This is A podcast about filmographies Directors who have massive success early on in their careers

[00:07:16] And are given a series of blank checks To make whatever crazy passion projects they want Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce Baby It's a mini-series on the films of David Fincher It is called The Curious Case of Benj I'm sorry The Curious Pod of Benjamin Butt-cast

[00:07:34] Yep And today we're talking about that film The Curious Case of Benjamin Button Which I think is fair to say Is kind of his most maligned movie I feel like it has the worst reputation It's a joke It's more of a meme than a movie at this point

[00:07:48] And I think after re-watching it for the first time since it was in theaters That it deserves to be a lot more than that I think this movie is very good Yeah This movie is very, very good I think this movie is wildly misunderstood

[00:07:59] And I think it is a perfect example of a movie That was fucked by being placed in the center of Oscar discourse That's part of it And having a crazy digital stunt That was all anyone talked about in the lead up to the movie

[00:08:11] The context in which this movie was released With those two forces Framed it horribly David Fincher directing it I think is a huge problem for this movie Coming off of what is almost inarguably his best film The peak of his career But it's not just that

[00:08:29] It's just this is to this day kind of an odd Sappy, in a good way Entry in his career We can talk about it I'm just saying people are sort of thrown I think being like this is a Fincher movie?

[00:08:41] But I also think that's why it's reputation is so weird Is that people also view it as a failed weepy That they're like this is him trying to go full emotional catharsis And failing It's easy to tag it Right Exactly Whereas I think He's going Oscar bait

[00:08:58] But he's going for something kind of darker here And then for other people They're like this is sappier than I want out of his cynicism Well look I'm going to say my journey with this film

[00:09:07] And I bet you I'm going to say your two journeys with this film When I say this Sure Saw this film in 2008 Yeah When it came out Yeah I was 22 You were probably a little younger I was 19 But I looked a lot older

[00:09:20] And you were probably just a little older I was a little older, yep But you looked a lot younger Well No you didn't I could argue that And I was like boring And then I didn't watch it again for a long time

[00:09:29] And then I watched it for this And I cried my little eyes out Interesting I think that after that age Yeah I think I was not really You have to really have thought about death a lot more We've all had death in our lives

[00:09:40] But like I mean your own mortality And this is a movie where everyone's like Oh it's a sentimental Oscar bait Yes, about the inevitability And the horrifying inevitability of death And trying to eke some small modicum of hope

[00:09:52] Not only that but this movie is kind of about meaninglessness Yeah exactly Like it's like we're here and we're gone And there's not much we can do about that This movie is mostly about working a tugboat So I don't know Which is, which David is meaningless

[00:10:05] To be as reductive as possible But I do think this is like the cultural narrative of this movie Is he's trying to do Gump, right? Yes, right Eric Roth wrote it Totally And it's positioned that way It's paramount They put a ton of money into it

[00:10:20] It's got a huge beloved star Two huge beloved stars But you're sort of like This doesn't feel like the kind of movies big studios make anymore And it's because Forrest Gump is this fucking aberration That every couple years studios would be like

[00:10:32] Could we replicate that in any way? And Big Fish is an attempt at a Gump Couple years after this Walter Mitty's an attempt at a Gump When's the last time we Gumped? I think Walter Mitty was the end of them trying to even get a Gump

[00:10:44] Has there not been one Gump since Mitty? And Walter Mitty parodies Benjamin Button Almost as if to say They fucked up, we're gonna Gump it correctly Right But is like also haunted by A little bit of Stiller being like

[00:10:57] How much like studio comedy do I need to put in this To satisfy my audiences? But this movie I think people saw it as Oh he fucked up trying to Gump Rather than And isn't that embarrassing? Right, rather than I think Fincher going

[00:11:10] Here's my interpretation of Forrest Gump Which I think he executed pretty successfully to his world view But it is almost by design a movie That is kind of prickly and off-putting And like It's not gonna offer you any emotional catharsis

[00:11:25] It's deeply sad if you really engage with what it's saying Yeah, it gave me some real emotion But in a way That like most people don't really wanna have to think in this movie It's funny though because it's like I was talking to my friend

[00:11:39] Who hadn't seen Button Because she's like five years younger than me And that's kind of enough Our guest today by the way is Richard Lawson Hello A Vanity Fair local man Can I just say before you finish your point David I am so honored

[00:11:52] Just a few days after its New York Fashion Week debut To be in the congratulations atelier Yes I don't think a lot of people get to come here I'm wearing my recycle polo I want one! David, I'm gonna get you one I love a polo Absolutely Yes

[00:12:08] We are Call me a British Mint Because I love polo Okay Okay Some people get that Yeah We are like Just almost about a week It's been about a week since we did Ben's Fashion Week Congratulations live at the Bell House Richard was It's a thrill

[00:12:27] Gracious enough to be a celebrity judge I had a small amount of participation in the show And then I felt like the second half of the show Mrs. Harris kind of took over Yeah you really got body checked off the stage By Mrs. Harris

[00:12:39] But it's so weird though because I feel like there was no reason why you guys Couldn't have done something together But you just kind of disappeared I'm such a big fan I'm so on the record As being such a big fan of her work I saw her backstage

[00:12:48] That leaves ego I don't know man She was fucking carrying it around with her She threw a phone at me Now to be fair you wouldn't hurry up And give her her own dokie I had stolen her Dior dress She did dust at first too That's true

[00:13:01] The phone, it was a squeaky clean phone It was so fun being backstage It reminded me of being in college And putting on a play And so I'm grateful for the opportunity Ben And you two also Thank you Yes Seriously That's all true

[00:13:14] It was so fun and I want to thank you guys For letting me do that crazy show Of course This is like two months old It was very much Sorry Just a month But it was very much Griff and I Just sort of being

[00:13:26] We were long for the run So this is your thing People kept texting me questions And I would just be like Guys I understand that I'm often A logistical person backstage I'm only talent this time You arrived backstage exasperated And said like what is this fucking thing

[00:13:42] Why is everyone asking me where to go I was getting texts from a lot of people Being like I'm here where do I go And I'm like this is Ben's show It's not my show Ben you and Marie Your fashion show is in the spring in Milan Correct

[00:13:56] I always do Milan in the spring Everyone knows that Everyone knows that You guys have a non-compete clause with each other You and Marie Party party party Yes Did a long segment of Your favorite looks in film history Yeah that I actually didn't really see much of

[00:14:16] Because I was backstage Had you seen Button before? I had never seen Button I feel like there's some stuff in Button That could repurpose itself Into a congratulations formal wear line There's some looks Okay such as Beings have been looking a lot older Tattoos you can kiss

[00:14:38] The Jared Harris character who does his own tattoos Those are some fantastic looking tattoos They shot up my paint Isn't that what he says They shot up my painting Painting He's talking about his own body A lot of hot southern wool

[00:14:53] I like movies where people wear wool down in the bayou Well it breathes so well To finish my point Talking to my friend who's right Just a little younger than me And that's enough to have not seen this in theaters And then basically missed the boat on Button

[00:15:10] Because Button didn't really endure That much No it bought its way into the Criterion collection God bless I have a disc Exists as a joke Exists as a meme And I was like this movie got 13 Oscar nominations Which is like almost It's close to the record

[00:15:25] It's like two below the record Obviously it's a technical movie It got 13 Oscar nominations It won three It made 330 million dollars worldwide It starred Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett It has like you know Career launching performances From people like Mahershala Ali and Taraji Henson It's like basically

[00:15:42] It's immediately followed by Fincher's most successful run Like this kick starts him finally getting accepted by the Academy They recognize him And then he does the run where it's like Three for three The movies do well They get Oscar nominations People are into them

[00:15:56] Yeah and yet it is A completely forgotten movie in some way Other than the jokes It's a bit of a forgotten movie Because she was like Oh he has Benjamin Button's disease Right she was like I know he ages backwards And I was like yeah

[00:16:06] You know it's sort of related To his you know long lost love In a diary while Hurricane Katrina bears down on him I'm realizing this sounds insane As I type this out Yeah this is my whole read on the movie It's that Tiffany Pollard like meme

[00:16:20] Like Hurricane Katrina Like question mark question mark Like an hour in Forky was like wait It's Hurricane Katrina Literally And I was like yeah it is And they're like knowing newsroom-esque lines of like Oh it's gonna It's not gonna hit the city Right yeah yeah

[00:16:37] Anyway but then no This is part of your big take Okay That's very big take But if I can just put This is usually what David does And I've gotten into the bad habit The power is transferring I know I'll say my big take in a second

[00:16:52] But my adjourn to this movie was I liked Fincher well enough But he was not one of my guys I go to see Zodiac opening week And I'm like holy shit he is the guy In my mind at that moment You're saying that about the Zodiac killer Yes

[00:17:08] And I was like And the director did a pretty good job I like what he stands for I like how he does it I hope Zodiac still works And I'd love to see him do a couple more murders I felt the way about the Zodiac killer

[00:17:17] I did about Axl Rose Where I was like I got into him too late Are they ever gonna get back together And do the old routines again? The point is Sorry I was And David checked his emails And you checked your phone

[00:17:30] And Ben started editing a different episode I saw Zodiac I was all about it Right Hard not to be Whatever this guy's next movie is This is now my most anticipated movie And you'd hear these things Because it had such a long post production process

[00:17:46] I remember reading an article in 2007 In the New York Times About what they were trying to pioneer Or no I'm sorry I remember reading that article in 2006 Before Zodiac even comes out And then I'm all in after Zodiac The trailer for this movie

[00:18:02] I remember seeing for the first time Opening weekend Crystal Skull The trailer was not online Yep It's summer 2008 It's kicking off the summer It's a lot of trailers For the big summer movies This thing plays And much like I remember the feeling of when The social network theater

[00:18:18] Trailer played for the first time Yep Two great fucking teasers Yep That have such a different tone Than everything else that was playing That the audience just went Pin drop silence And was like What is this fucking thing? I must have seen this trailer 100 times It was unbelievable

[00:18:34] And it's a great trip It is a movie that If anything suffers from the fact That its trailer Is a better version Of what it's trying to do In 90 seconds than the movie is Yeah It's just such a concise Evocative He cuts a good trailer Yes

[00:18:48] Remember that Manc trailer? Everyone saying Manc all the time Oh yeah Manc What's Manc? Uh, excuse me? Is that a movie? It's an alert It's a state of mind I say it to mean That there's a bird near you Manc For me it's more of a world view

[00:19:02] Look in 2008 I think we're probably Pretty similar, Griffin Yeah I saw a lot of movies I had just moved to New York That was prime Yeah

[00:33:42] Hollywood And I think there's a whole Like they don't Look that way forever Or something They don't imagine That there's an end to it And the fact that Button dies before Daisy Yes Is interesting in that regard But also the fact that he's He's not reversing time

[00:33:55] I know the end Right Because I was alive For that part In a weird way Right Look, as Scott Fitzgerald I'm cracking the dossier Well Heard of this guy? Yeah 1922 Love to pull the cord Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch The curious case Of Benjamin Button

[00:34:11] Uh, it's, uh, you know, published in Collier's. That was Trumbo, actually. -...-Yeah, how wet were the keys on his typewriter? The baby had it backwards! Yeah, yeah, well, you gotta, yeah, how wet's the script? That's always the question. Um, Fitzgerald said the story was inspired

[00:34:25] by a remark of Mark Twain's. The effect that it was a pity the best part of life came at the beginning and the worst part at the end. Youth is wasted on the young, et cetera. Exactly. Uh, and so, he, um, he submits, uh,

[00:34:38] this story, uh, and an anonymous admirer says to him, I read this story, and I wish to say that as a short story writer, you would make a good lunatic. I have seen many pieces of cheese in my life,

[00:34:48] but all the pieces of cheese I have ever seen, you are the biggest piece. I hate to waste a piece of stationery on you, but I will. And then Zelda... That's what hat replies were like back then. And then Zelda said, lunatic, don't mind if I do! Wow!

[00:35:02] Wait, so where was this in his career? This is... Well, that's a great question, and I will, of course, answer it by Googling F. Scott Fitzgerald. He would only have been like, like, not even 30. Like, I mean, but then again, he died when he was 44. So it's not...

[00:35:18] But any of his... It's after The Sight of Paradise, which is his debut, debut novel, which is a wonderful book, yes. Uh, and it's the same year as The Beautiful and Damned, which is his difficult second album, you know, and then Gatsby is 1925. But this is pre-Gatsby.

[00:35:35] It's pre-Gatsby. So he was how old when Gatsby was written? He was like, you know, 30. Want to feel old? I have to go home. That's depressing. For me, not for him. Well, I mean, he had some depressing shit happen to him too,

[00:35:49] such as he drank like a quart of whiskey every fucking hour until he melted. That's only depressing after a certain point. For a while, it's pretty fun. Sounds like a lot of fun, actually. Um, uh, 60 years later, Ray Stark, a producer, brings this story to Universal

[00:36:06] and, uh, 1988 is the fabled, uh, Frank Oz Martin Short project. So that's probably right before Clifford because Clifford is made in 1990, I think? I think Clifford films in 89 comes out in 94. So maybe when Benjamin Button fell apart, Short was like, but Clifford was something like this.

[00:36:26] It kind of feels possible that Short was like, I gotta do something where I'm a young person in the body of an old person or whatever, you know? Um, Universal chairman Casey Silver. So we have F. Scott Fitzgerald to thank for Clifford. Yes.

[00:36:40] I'm just glad that Clifford is coming up in the conversation. If he walked back into our lives, you know, Scott Fitzgerald, do you think we'd be like, we're gonna fire up a movie for you, actually. And sell the picture. I loved it.

[00:36:51] Tear in his eyes is what I've always imagined. This is where this art form was headed. I always dreamed to write something this good. I've always just wanted to say Mason. He wants to say Mason. He really does. Um... So, uh, Casey Silver has a next door neighbor

[00:37:10] by the name of Robin Sweicord. A lady who wrote the 90s Little Women. She wrote Matilda. She wrote a pure masterpiece with lightning called Practical Magic. Your favorite movie of all time. The day she wrote that, the roof blew off her house from quality. Oh.

[00:37:28] Also, the Kazan's mom. Yes. Right, right, right. She's part of the... Right, exactly. And she gives that one to Amblin, that script that she writes. And Spielberg wants to make it. With Tom Cruise. Yeah, correct. Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall come aboard as producers.

[00:37:43] Cruise would have been particularly bad in this period. Well, they wouldn't have had to digitally shrink him at all, which is nice. But the Stiltz budget... Get baby-sized as it is! Yeah. No, it's that thing of like, Minority Report in 2002 was like the culmination of ten years.

[00:37:55] Right, they've been circling. Of them circling. Of them circling. Of them circling being like, it has to be the right thing. Um... Spielberg decides instead to do some like, bullshit too for Jurassic Park and Schindler's List, whatever those are. He was gonna make one Benjamin Button instead.

[00:38:10] He does Jurassic and Schindler. Kennedy Marshall then founds their production company. They take this over to Paramount. And that is when Fincher, who has not even made Alien 3 yet, is shown this script. Mm-hmm. So he... The Pshwyckord script originally. Correct. Yeah. He's shown this script.

[00:38:27] He liked it, but he said, it was a beautiful script, but it hinged on the audience's affinity for and knowledge of jazz. Because this is part of Fitzgerald's like, Tales of the Jazz Age. And I imagine this original script might have been more indebted to the Fitzgerald story.

[00:38:42] Interesting. Oh, this is in a collection called Tales of the Jazz Age? Yeah. Now it's often just printed with Benjamin Button on the cover and Brad Pitt's there. His dick is out and you're like, Jesus. So like jazz, Benjamin Button's about the ages you don't look like. Right.

[00:38:56] Yes. It's about the ages you don't live through. Right. Um, so then it's like, uh, they're shopping this around and they are like, fuck, the real problem we have here is you would need to cast five actors. Yeah. Because you're gonna need to do this,

[00:39:12] you know, you can't do this with visual effects. The Martin Short version of it makes sense. The second they push it towards drama... Right. ...it requires some sort of at least... And if you cast that many actors, you're losing all the impact. Totally.

[00:39:25] And you can't bill it as a movie star movie. I know, it's like you can't get a talent in the same way. Agnieszka Holland, who did The Secret Garden, signs on pretty much after that. And she just had a big hit at the festivals.

[00:39:37] She did. I'm excited to see it. What's it called again? Green Border? Green Border. Sequel to Green Zone. Most of the directors and writers who are flirting with it at this point in time are people who worked on a lot of like August children's literature adaptations. Yes.

[00:39:54] Things where the sun is streaming through the trees. I'm surprised Coran wasn't involved after Little Princess. It makes perfect sense. Ron Howard steps in, but John Travolta steps in with him. I can only imagine how subtle that performance would have been. Well, Benjamin Button would have smoked cigarettes

[00:40:10] the entire time. And they wouldn't have needed wigs in the beginning. He was gonna play him like Edna Turnblad. And I think by the late 90s, and you do hear this sometimes, Marshall and Kennedy are like, you know what? This is just one of those scripts.

[00:40:23] That's really good on the page and it will never get done. Unmakeable. Like, that's just what it is. Then Spike Jonze comes aboard, gets Jim Taylor out of the pants. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To rewrite the script. Charlie Kaufman supposedly rewrote the script at one point.

[00:40:38] They turned it into more of a comedy, something quirky. Yes. Who knows what that movie is? They never had an actor attached? Never. I guess they just took some shots of the script about a guy going backwards. And is this in the time between being John Malkovich?

[00:40:53] It's straight off of Malkovich. And it kind of makes sense that it's after Malkovich, they're to Jones like, what do you want? Like, here are our hottest unproduced scripts. Being John Malkovich was another one of those five years, this can't be done.

[00:41:05] Do I want to crack something else? Did Kaufman write an actual script for this? He supposedly rewrote the script, but there's not much about whatever that was. Eric Roth is the first person post-Sweikard to do a full page one, go back to the adaptation, start over.

[00:41:24] Everyone else is building on the Sweikard draft. He gets brought in to rewrite. Jones exits at that point. Those two are not like a natural fit, I would say. No. But Eric Roth is really hot stuff still. I mean, he remains hot stuff.

[00:41:38] He is a great screenwriter in my opinion, even though Gump is not really what I... But he's an A-list pro writer. Yes, total pro. Yes. Even though he's written some boring ass shit. Probably one of the highest paid. Him, like Steve Zalian, people like that.

[00:41:54] David Kappa, it's that tier of the 90s guys who just... Richard LaGravida. By the time he's done with it, the movie has no resemblance to Benjamin Button apart from it's called Benjamin Button. It's gotten so far. He calls the love interest Daisy

[00:42:11] as a tribute to the great Gatsby. There's some sort of nanny in the short story apparently who Queenie vaguely resembles. But not a huge part. And the mother apparently is in the story, obviously not in this. And in this story, he is raised by his father. Yes.

[00:42:28] Mr. Button. Yes. Whereas, obviously, you know. Roth had his mom get diagnosed with cancer while he was writing the script. His dad died a couple of years after that. He's still working on the script. He says this movie is all about that shit.

[00:42:42] Like about these tragedies, ordinary tragedies that you go through in life. Trying to make sense of these things in retrospect. Yeah, and I think that's the other thing. It makes sense it took this long to get made because you're just like, wow, what a concept.

[00:42:57] I can just imagine the movie that could be made off of that. And then you're like, what is the dramatic crux of this story? It is fascinating that this man was born this way and lives this way. But what's the story?

[00:43:07] And then you go like, well, Forrest Gump, similarly on paper, the guy just moves forward in time. If anyone's going to be able to crack this, have the Gump guy crack it. And what they were lucky to find is that the Gump guy,

[00:43:19] rather than just like repeating himself, was going through, was in the midst of working through some shit and poured all of that directly into it. Um, 100%. That line where old lady Cate Blanchett says, I'm curious, rather than I'm afraid. She says that's something his mother said

[00:43:37] when she was in the hospital. Joan Didion's book, The Year of Magical Thinking. She says, which is about her husband dying, you have to go to this land of grief whether you want to or not and go experience grief. He's like, that's what I'm thinking about here.

[00:43:51] This is all in for, I feel like this is all backing up Griff's case. Like you're the prosecutor right now sitting with a big smile on your face. It's interesting to think about the movie in that context. Because you were saying, Griffin, about how he's such a cipher.

[00:44:02] Like this lead title character of this movie is kind of a blank. So it's really not a movie about him. It's a movie about everyone around him. That's what's fascinating is that he is, he's in so much more of the film than everyone else. Right?

[00:44:16] Like it's not even like, well, Blanchett's right there by his side the whole film. So you can argue that she's actually the protagonist. She's missing for long swaths of the movie. She does not appear as like... And she is played by younger actors. Like she's, you know, yeah.

[00:44:30] Although, you know, she dubbed all the younger actresses over. But yes, you see her in the movie. She's in the movie. She's in the movie. But yes, you see her caked under pounds of makeup. Then it's younger actresses with her voice.

[00:44:44] It takes over an hour until she enters as kind of like... It's an hour. I checked the timecode. Yeah, it's an hour flat. You know, 19 or whatever, but still like her looking... Cate Blanchett is Elle Fanning to this day. That's a role she's doing.

[00:44:57] And she's good at it. She's great! But yes, yes, it is odd that like, I think in a certain way, you need to view this movie through Julia Ormond as it is her interpretation of the story. But she's not in a ton of the film. No, but...

[00:45:13] He is the guy. It's about people beholding him and being like... I think the most crucial scene in the movie, for me as someone who just turned 40 and is dealing with a lot of like pretty maudlin, like, is that all there is? You know, middle-aged stuff.

[00:45:25] Is her in the swimming pool saying like, I hate getting older. And it's so much about her beholding him. And it's like, here's a guy who is living what we would all dream of. What if after all of the experience of adolescence,

[00:45:37] I looked so much better in my 40s than I did then? You know, or whatever it is. And it's like, but it's not enough. You know, and they kind of learn that through him. Oh, he's so lonely, whatever. It's not really about Benjamin Button's trajectory. At all. No.

[00:45:53] And then it ends with her taking care of him. She's in the last, she's in, you know, the last 15 minutes of the movie and he's gone. He is gone. There as a baby. Can we talk about the love? Fincher says it shows the fallacy

[00:46:07] and the idea that youth is wasted on the young. Like, to reaffirm your point. Like, you know what I mean? And what you said, Richard, of like, if only I knew what I know now then when I was in that body or whatever.

[00:46:18] When he gets that place, right, he's an idiot. Yeah. His dumbest decisions happen when he's at his physical peak. The thing where people say like, man, if I could be 80 in the body of myself at 20. Right. What would really be? Right. He's like a selfish asshole.

[00:46:32] So, not to direct the conversation, but like, I think that one of the elephants in the room, why this movie gets made fun of and became a meme and a joke is, I'm curious what you guys think. Does the logic of this actually work? No.

[00:46:46] Obviously it doesn't, right? But is that detrimental to it? What do you mean by the logic? Like, obviously, because the question is, okay, he's born a tiny old man. Why doesn't he die a giant baby? Right. Look, here's the answer. That would be insane. That's the big question.

[00:46:58] But baked within that is like... Obviously, I wish they had gone full spirited away. Like, that would be great. Like, his body gets younger. Jack, Jack. I don't know. I just love the room. Just imagine him like walking down the street. Like the Stay Puft Marshmallow guy.

[00:47:13] That's the final scene of this movie. It's actually Benjamin Button stomping across Central Park. Not only is he getting younger, he's getting larger. Julia Ormond looks out the window and he's just like lumbering toward her. Oh, stop, Katrina. No, I mean... He actually broke the levies, unfortunately.

[00:47:30] He has to become a baby. Obviously, because that's the only way we can handle this. We can handle an old man baby at the beginning because babies already look a little bit like old people. But that's sort of the weird logic thing, as you said, is like...

[00:47:46] They make this choice to not have him be the old man with the long beard being like, when do I get to leave this place? Right? They make the choice to have him be a wrinkly baby. Which at that point, everyone's like,

[00:47:57] I haven't seen a baby that looks like this, but it could be like progeria. It could be... There are conditions that exist in the world. Right, you also... Right, exactly. Like he would have been seen as freakish in some way maybe,

[00:48:08] but it's not just like, oh my God. There are analogs in real science of just, you know, ailments, conditions, diseases that make people age rapidly or at least the illusion of it, right? You're like, what's weird is that he like gets younger and hotter.

[00:48:24] And then you get to that point where you're like, and then what happens? Does he like turn into sperm? Like, is he... Right. The... Where does life begin? Actually Griffin, I want you to answer that political question. They very wisely do not answer that question.

[00:48:40] But even the giant baby thing, right? Like if you were actually treating this as hard science, right, what should happen is whenever he's at his like physical tallest, right, at that point, his brain should start like going down. Right. But in the adult body.

[00:48:57] It doesn't make sense that he would start shrinking in that same way. I know that like old people get smaller. Yeah, but not... They don't become... Right. And like, I think the thing is they add the dementia thing is like, oh, it's like a baby. Yes.

[00:49:09] But like are old people with dementia really playing with blocks? Like, you know, like Benjamin is maybe, I don't know. And they just skip through this pretty quickly. I also think that's the other thing he's getting at is it's like those are the two most similar states

[00:49:20] are when you're at your absolute oldest, your absolute youngest. Yeah. Yeah. For me, the one that really got... Watching it this time that really stuck in my head was when he's probably physically in his... 60s, 70s. Uh-huh. But like an adolescent in mind. Right.

[00:49:43] Is when he goes to the brothel and the woman's like, whoa, like you really wore me out. It's like, no, but he's still physically old. Right. Yes. I know he might be adult. I just don't know where the physio... I just don't know how that all works.

[00:49:55] And maybe it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You have to accept... But I think back in the day people made fun of it because of the giant baby question. Kumail Nanjiani had the routine that was like... Old man turned into baby. Yeah.

[00:50:08] What if Brad Pitt old man baby? Like, I'm just like, yes, I'm gonna make fun of this. Kumail had the routine of like, what do you mean you've never been to a doctor? People need to study you. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Now, re the visual effects.

[00:50:27] Are you guys aware of this commercial? The Orville Redenbacher commercial. Yes. Yep. Was this a Super Bowl commercial? I think it might have been. It was 2007. I think it was early 07. I remember it was either... It would have been the Oscars or the Super Bowl

[00:50:42] or some event like that that I was watching with my family. I think even in a party setting with other family friends. I think there's maybe one other one where he's at a table or something. This was done by Digital Domain as proof of concept for this movie.

[00:50:56] That commercial comes up. Okay, I see. This is where I remember reading this article that was in the New York Times. And it looks perfect. I think the first of these aired in 06. It said 07, but I mean, you know... There was a full campaign,

[00:51:08] but I'm at some family friends sitting around watching TV. That ad comes up. Everyone goes like, oh. Like, it was similar to that feeling of that like uneasy ad where they made Christopher Reeves walk again in the 90s. Do you remember that ad? Oh, jeez. That's ghoulish.

[00:51:28] That played during the Oscars and it was about medical advancements. And it just felt a little ghoulish. Yeah. Like Fred Astaire for the vacuum commercial. Fred Astaire dancing to the vacuum. It was in that mode where it's like, what are they doing here?

[00:51:37] And I was so perplexed by it. And then I think I read on Slashfilm or whatever a week later, like, you want to hear something weird? David Fincher directed that commercial. Everyone's like, what the fuck is this? And then it came out of like,

[00:51:49] yes, he has used this commercial. This bizarre thing of like, why? I know Orville Redenbacher was the spokesperson. He was a likable on-camera personality during the heyday. But no one's like, gotta bring him back. No. The brand's been dying without him as the spokesperson.

[00:52:04] Why are you investing this much money and this much tech into it? And the answer was, he was like, I'm basically stealing money from Orville Redenbacher to figure out whether this film is makeable or not. Which is interesting because obviously in Panic Room, Fincher's doing and Fight Club,

[00:52:17] all those kind of camera digital, like we're gonna go inside the wires or whatever. But I don't think of him as like a Zemeckis. No, like he's not. But this is his kind of Zemeckis-y going back to the Forrest Gump thing. His like big Zemeckis project.

[00:52:29] Um, it's obviously... I think there are people who literally think Robert Zemeckis made this movie. Like, you know, like they have to be told. They have to be sat down and told David Fincher. And they must be told. Zemeckis did make Manc though, right? Yes, he did. Right.

[00:52:43] I mean, the guy. He went back in time and this is his grandpa. Manc's mom. He's got a DeLorean. Yeah. First honor of business. I go fuck Mrs. Manc. We just have to establish for anyone listening. Yes, Robert Zemeckis went back in time. Yes.

[00:53:02] He had sex with Manc's mom. This is hard science. It's fact. This is in the congressional record. He was gonna be called Zank, but then they said that's kind of ugly. Oh my goodness. No, you are right, but that's part of it.

[00:53:20] A friend of the podcast, Drew McQueen, was saying to us, like he remembers the scuttlebutt at this point in time. This is one of those great unmade scripts. And even when the Roth draft came in, which Gary Ross almost did. Gary Ross was at some point under consideration

[00:53:33] for this job, which makes sense. It's got Pleasantville-y vibes. Like, you know, it makes sense. But even at this point where like computer graphics have advanced, they were like, I don't know if you can pull this off, you know? It's cutting edge shit.

[00:53:46] Post Gollum was the first time where they were suddenly like, all these scripts that we used to think were unmakeable, maybe the tech is there. And even still people were like uneasy about it because it's like, it's the main character. It's the whole movie.

[00:53:57] He's got to go through 20 different states, all this sort of shit. And the scuttlebutt was like Fincher might have finally cracked this. But I do think in that way that's more often the like, the Zemeckis, Peter Jackson, what becomes of Ang Lee Trapp of like,

[00:54:12] I need to make this movie to pioneer the technology to hand off to a generation of filmmakers, is not usually how Fincher worked. I don't think he has that sort of like, Promethean vision of his career. No. No, and he's a big nerd. He is.

[00:54:27] And I've heard tell of him like, emailing other filmmakers with like, hey, I got a new camera, like if you want to fuck around with it, like come over, like that kind of shit. Yeah, he's also, look, he talks a lot about

[00:54:38] how like, my mom said you could come over. Just sort of like... Getting pizza, half-pep. The rise of like 90s, early 2000s auteurs. He's like, I think that really comes out of how robust the music video industry was for so long.

[00:54:51] Where there were stupid amount of money going around for filmmakers to cut their teeth on in a way that was more creative and longer form than commercials and with a little more freedom. But you got to experiment with all this different technology.

[00:55:04] Where like, current day filmmakers will talk about that. When Todd Field isn't making a movie for 15 years and he's directing car commercials, he's like, I go into it saying, this is my excuse to try out this camera. This lens, this fucking... Yeah, totally. Maybe this isn't creative expression,

[00:55:19] but I'm like building muscles on something. Whereas music videos, it also was creative expression. And so these guys, some of them were all style over substance, but they all were able to hit the ground running somewhat when they started making movies.

[00:55:31] And Fincher smartly in this situation goes like, I need to find a commercial I can use to cut my teeth for this film in the same way. Now, did he also direct that Six Flags commercial? Yes, he did. Well, Ben Robbins is in that. Of course, that's him.

[00:55:45] Oh, okay. That's where they're casting. The real guy. This Benjamin Button is based on the real car, the real Buzz Lightyear, Benjamin Button. And that's who's in the Six Flags. Right, that's the real guy. Brad Pitt is playing the real guy.

[00:55:57] He would catch the Venga bus home every day down Bourbon Street. Yeah. Ben, ask me how many flags there were. A streetcar named Venga. Called Venga? Griffin, how many flags were there? Six, but they look a lot bolder. Oh! I've been to Six Flags.

[00:56:13] Those flags don't look too bold. They're pretty bold. I don't think anyone's cleaned them in a while. They're bold flags. Look, obviously, this film shot in New Orleans right after Katrina. They thought that Katrina would ruin their chances of making it in New Orleans.

[00:56:26] Instead, New Orleans was like, -"Please come." Like, we want people here. Ushering in a real era of threats. Yes. It's one of several things that Brad Pitt remains in litigation over deep litigation. But he was one of the stars who, in the wake of Katrina, was like,

[00:56:40] we need to do what we can to revitalize this place. And so it was his big push, I believe, to be like, I want to set it there and I want to film there. Actually film there. It was originally gonna be set in Baltimore. Right.

[00:56:51] But then David Simon was like, -"Stay off my turf." No. --Yes. Uh, Eric Roth, uh, Fincher, read the similarities to Eric Roth. Instead of an ordinary man in extraordinary circumstances, I thought of Benjamin as an extraordinary man in ordinary circumstances.

[00:57:05] Just to sort of reinforce what you guys were saying. Uh, and, uh, you know, he's like, he's like, the movie's experiential, there's no backstory. Like, it's mundane, you know, there's kisses, hangovers, like, you get dumped and all that stuff. But like, the only thing that's crazy really

[00:57:23] is that he's a backwards man. Wait, the part of Fincher that's obsessed with process and how things are done and depicting the actual process on camera rather than doing the movie version of it comes through in being like, the process of this man's life

[00:57:37] is all the shit that happens. You know, it's all these little chance encounters and periods he goes through and all of that. And it puts as much weight in some ways on a ship crashing into a U-boat in the middle of the sea

[00:57:52] as it does these happy years we spent sleeping on a mattress in an apartment in New Orleans. It's all of it. Yeah. Yeah. And Pitt's other huge thing is I want to play as much of this person as I can.

[00:58:03] Like, do not hand it off to other people. How much is it, is him as the old man? Like, right? It's his face. It's body doubles until he is... And is he going like this? And they're kind of shrinking him? Or is that like...

[00:58:16] They had multiple body doubles. And then it was a lot of him sitting in a chair surrounded by a hundred cameras, his face painted totally green rather than having the dots. And he would act it all out. Because he talked about like,

[00:58:29] he hired different actors at different ages, different body types and whatever. And one of the guys who's sort of playing the brothel-age Benjamin was an older man who was like in his 70s but had mime training. And he was like... The guy was a really good performer

[00:58:43] because his background was in miming, his motions were like too exaggerated. He put too much of a point on them. And Pitt's a pretty still actor. And especially with the way he was doing it in the volume or whatever, the facial expressions didn't match.

[00:58:58] So we had to go back and reshoot stuff. So yeah, it's body doubles that he's then doing his face. Because they even say the... His first scene... His first time on set with Taraji P. Henson is the scene where he comes back home. And he's an adult.

[00:59:19] Because he was never present on set. He never was on set for these scenes. Right, right. He was off stage going, -"Damn it, you little..." And Brad Pitt thinks that's what old men who... sound like? I mean, we don't even see Benjamin smoking.

[00:59:31] Well, actually, why would that make sense though? Because he was born with that voice? You're looking for logic where there are problems. I mean, the voice is great. He should start smoking when he's a baby. That's when he should... He should come out with... Like, the guy should...

[00:59:44] Mr. Button should look into the crib and this little wrinkled thing is like smoking a little cigarette. Yes. That's what it should be. But yeah, no, I know another thing Fincher said is that he wanted, I think, down to him being a child,

[00:59:57] you know, a tween, a kid, a baby, it's still to be Pitt digitally modified. And he was like, we ran out of budget. I mean, yeah, well... Basically, the last 12 years were more than we could spend. But even the last time when he walks into the dance studio

[01:00:12] and briefly meets his now somewhat grown daughter, it's interesting that they choose to do that with light instead of... Because I thought... Because I had forgotten this until I watched it now and was like, oh, I remember being disappointed

[01:00:26] because I was like, ooh, they're going to digitally make him Thelma and Louise Brad. Yeah. River runs through it, Brad. That's going to be so exciting. And then it was just like, oh no, it's the same guy, just a different haircut and he's kind of in shadow. Right.

[01:00:39] Maybe that was a budget thing or... It's digitally DH, but yeah. But yes, it's my older... But maybe if you're a big movie star, you're like, I don't really want to remind people of what I looked like 10 years ago. Totally. I am at perfection now.

[01:00:48] Well, that's the other thing. It is like the movie has to be about this one moment of the two of them in the middle. Yeah. So you do kind of have to argue that the age he was when he shot this film was his perfect age.

[01:01:01] Even if he's going to look more angelic as he ages down another 10, 15 years. I think it's kind of his perfect age. I think it is. I mean like... Or whatever. Have you seen MeetJoe Black recently? That was a pretty good age. I don't know.

[01:01:14] But like, you know, when it suddenly turns into a fucking luxury watch commercial and he's like, you know, riding a yacht around with sunglasses on. He gets very stylish. Get out of here! Yeah, this is the fucking best. I remember Fincher saying that in interviews at the time

[01:01:26] of like, this is the great magic trick of the movie is we spend like $100 million on special effects for the first hour and a half of the movie. And then the effect is the moment you finally get to pull everything off of him. Put a leather jacket on!

[01:01:37] And just have him walk in and go like, hold this shit. With a great haircut. Or when he goes to see Daisy in the Parisian hospital and he's wearing this like, kind of caramel colored overcoat and you're like, Jesus Christ, like Benjamin Button has good style.

[01:01:51] He's a cool fucking guy. I mean, honestly... I mean, would you be if you did all that? I think his tugboat look is his best look though. The stringy long hair and the cap. And the commentary Fincher referred to him as looking like Barry Levinson.

[01:02:06] I thought was really funny. And when he's born, he kind of looks like Sam. Hell yeah. Um... Okay, wait. I want to say a couple things. Taraji P. Henson. Obviously, her first appearance is in Big Baby Boy, which you've discussed on this podcast. Her first screen appearance.

[01:02:25] But it was Hustle & Flow that puts her on Fincher's radar. She's amazing in that movie. Singleton really made a concerted effort to try to single-handedly make her a movie star. And he does Baby Boy, puts her in Hustle & Flow as a producer, puts her in Four Brothers.

[01:02:38] It doesn't totally stick. Even though I think certain wise people were ahead of the curve on her. This is the movie where she finally lands. You can ask a bunch of questions about like... She gave three great performances in John Singleton movies playing very different characters.

[01:02:54] The second she plays an old housewife, an old housekeeper mother... A kindly mom. Yes, yes. And the type of role that Oscars would... Have been paying attention to for a hundred years, basically. She is good. She's such a warm, like, wonderful presence. Yes.

[01:03:09] I mean, him calling his shots on her and Mahershala, and then also you think this is Jared Harris a year before Mad Men. He had done a lot of work up until this point. Yeah, I mean, Jared Harris is a guy without a doubt.

[01:03:21] The year after this is the next stage of his career that I think levels up. Yeah. And even Elle Fanning is a pretty early pick. Yeah, definitely. He's got like four casting choices in this movie that are like have paid off.

[01:03:32] Who plays the old lady in the hospital bed with Julia Ormond? Yeah, kidding. Is she good at that old stuff? She's fine. It's the most risible part of the movie in a way just because like it feels like something from a UCB sketch.

[01:03:47] Like, ah, that diary over there, do you mind opening it? It's very Home for Purim, you know? Yes. 100%. I do think it's maybe the most impressive old age makeup I've ever seen. The makeup is really good. The makeup is astonishing. They also wisely keep her basically always prone.

[01:04:03] She's always lying down. And so like you don't have to deal with her moving around too much to complicate things. But I look at the neck and I'm just like, that's astonishing. What about the neck? The back? Sorry. Horrible.

[01:04:17] Two other body parts I'm not going to mention by name. Um... Yes, yes. This is the thing that gets Taraji to the Oscar nomination and finally kind of puts her on the path in Hollywood's eyes. Um, Mahershala Ali, uh, credited by his longer name. Mahershala Shabazz.

[01:04:35] Uh, which I used to... When I... Because I'd already seen him in a few things before this. This was definitely the first I saw him because I remember thinking that guy's good and then seeing the name in the end credits and going, holy shit.

[01:04:47] It's so ridiculous to say this. But yes, his name being so long was so interesting to me. He actually just done a lot of television. He was on... Like he popped up on Crossing Jordan and CSI and stuff like that. Right, was he on 4400? He was on the 4400.

[01:05:01] That's the one. He was on that for years. And he doesn't shorten his name until, like, Place Beyond the Pines. Like, years and years later. Like, uh, Mockingjay, he's in that. He's talked about how it was a point of pride for him that when people said,

[01:05:15] of course you have to shorten your name, he dug his heels in. And that he ultimately said, like, I don't need to change my name to Bob Smith. Right. Because this might be a little self-destructive. Right. And it is wild that, like,

[01:05:28] he chops the final 25% of his first name off and immediately has the transcendent year where people are like, who the fuck is this guy? But I mean, look, Fincher puts him from this into House of Cards, which is one of the things that definitely levels him up.

[01:05:42] You know, this directly leads to his, like, full anointment. He's so good in this movie. He's... I mean, he's... Yeah, he's great. He's one of the... He's always good. I talked about it in a different episode recently. I forget why, how absurd it is

[01:05:56] that he won the Green Book Oscar. But he's also just, like, undeniably one of the best-looking actors in my money. Even if I'm not always excited by everything he does, he is... Well, the thing about him in Green Book is he's really good in it.

[01:06:08] He's really fucking good in it. So is Vigo. I have no complaints about his performance in that movie. It's just a lead performance. It's insane to give to him that quickly after. Yeah, and also he took Samuel Elliott's Oscar away. And Richard E. Grant's Oscar.

[01:06:20] Those are the two. You had two guys... Like, lifelong character actor guys. Flip it to... Is it true that you guys are gonna re-tape the Power of the Dog episode with Samuel Elliott? Uh, yeah. He's got a lot of thoughts. It's gonna be two minutes long.

[01:06:32] I have more to say, fellas. The fuck is this? I don't know where this is going. I'm a little desperate. Um, no, we're gonna re-tape it with Vigo in character from Green Book. Yeah, we'll make it... What the fuck is he doing?

[01:06:45] I don't know what he would say. A mouthful of pizza. Um... But yeah, no, Mahershala's... He's great in this. And, like... I don't know, I was... The commentary was interesting. Fincher talked more about the psychology of these two characters than any other characters in the movie. Mm-hmm.

[01:07:04] And I think it's because, like, the first chunk of it, you do see a lot of it through their eyes. Benjamin's so passive. When he's young, he's still understanding the world that they are the characters you're really relating to at the beginning. And he was like,

[01:07:17] this thing of, like, she has a better position in the house, you know? Yeah. That she holds the power. That they are together, but they live separately. Yeah. You know? That there's sort of, like, this... This, um... This very kind of modern couple in a lot of ways.

[01:07:34] And that he is disapproving. I mean, there's... I forget what his line is, but, like, he's so freaked out by Benjamin Button as a baby. Yeah. And so wary of her taking him in, of, like, what's this gonna be the next 20 years of your life? Right.

[01:07:53] What's this kid gonna turn into? And made on... Like, made, like, in a split second. Babies on the stairs. Do you need to burden yourself with all of this? But she is kind of like, he could die tomorrow, too. Totally. Like, she does have that, yeah.

[01:08:03] And the second she says that, he basically is like, I'm 100% in. You know? He tries to talk her out of it. And I think that, like, a lesser piece of writing, a more obvious piece of writing, would have him be the, you know,

[01:08:14] an early quarter of the movie antagonist. Yes. Like, Mama loved me, but this guy was always kind of whatever. Yeah, yeah, right. And that's the thing. Like, when she has a child, you know, when she announces she's pregnant and you're briefly like,

[01:08:26] oh, is this gonna kind of play some sort of jealousy note? No. And it's like, no, it's just sort of a moving on. Yeah. It's another signpost for him that it's time to leave the coop a little bit. But the other thing Fincher talks about is, like,

[01:08:38] a lot of Benjamin's passivity as a character, his... him being the sort of observer wallflower. His button-inity. Right, yes. His deep button-inity. Him being seven but looking a lot older. Um, is that, like, he was well-raised. Yeah. Like, he is like a kind of old-fashioned Southern gentleman

[01:08:54] of, like, proper manners, right? Yeah. He is sort of, like, polite to the point of absurdity. And he said when he would screen the movie for Paramount, they'd be like, why is, like, Taraji so mean? She's playing all these scenes so mean. And he's like, she's not mean.

[01:09:06] She's, like, firm in a way in that she's a good parent. Yeah. Not in, like, a tough love way. Yeah. But she's, like, really trying to teach him the world. And he said it wasn't about being mean. He said it wasn't until the scene where he goes back

[01:09:19] and sees her again and she's so warm and loving that they were like, why could she have been like this the whole movie? And he's like, yeah, because now she doesn't need to raise him. And no parent is like that all the time. Right. You know, like,

[01:09:31] that's a reunion. That's a happy reunion. No, that's his point. He was like, it's really crucial that the two of them are great parents and that the time spent with them at the beginning of the movie sets up how this guy behaves for the rest of the film.

[01:09:43] And that everything surrounding them, I mean, minus Phyllis Somerville kind of yelling at him about how he's a great, Dave Matthews album. Did I hit that joke? But, I don't know if I'm able to fit Phyllis Somerville. But he has this wonderful education of being around old people

[01:09:55] and it's mostly like, you know, age isn't anything to be afraid of or whatever. Yeah. But also, yes, it is sad and he gets this incredible perspective on death. They give him perspective. And then the rest of his, of the movie is in some ways him teaching that

[01:10:09] to people in the audience and people he meets. Yeah. You know, the way he consoles Jared Harris as he's dying on a ship is not like, you're going to be fine. The helicopter's coming. He's like, no, you're going. Yeah, it's true. But like,

[01:10:22] there's a nice place waiting for you. You know, he has this like really rational view of all this that is because of the upbringing. And you would expect the beginnings of this movie to be like House of Horrors. Yeah. You know, raised in a, you know, gothic orphanage.

[01:10:35] And it's like the complete opposite of that. Like, 10 years ago it must have been. I went to a fucking Rosh Hashanah dinner with my great aunt and uncle who was very close to great-grandmother. And I went to dinner with my great aunt and uncle

[01:10:47] who was very close to growing up, who had moved to Florida by this point. And it was them and their friend who had also just moved into this retirement community with them. All three of these people are dead now, right? And my great aunt and uncle

[01:10:59] were together for like 65 years, 70 years. And this guy's wife, who they had grown up with both of them in the same neighborhood, had like just died. And my great aunt and uncle, very matter-of-factly, say like, and this is Jerry. Jerry's one of our oldest friends.

[01:11:13] He grew up around the block. And his wife was Cynthia. And she went to school with us. And he just looked at me and he went, she was the love of my life. I will never care about anyone as much as I cared about her.

[01:11:21] She was the most extraordinary woman I ever knew. And she died six months ago. And I've been so sad since. Can you pass the mashed potatoes? There you go. And it was like one wrong sentence. Yeah. And it was said with emotion, but it was also just like

[01:11:32] that point where people get to that point in their lives. And you're like, you lose the most important people every day. Yeah. You lose the most important people every day. Yeah. And it was like, they're just all dropping off like flies. Yeah. But you imagine that happening

[01:11:47] if you were in preschool, right? Or in grade school. Right. And if you're like, quote unquote friends. Once a week a friend gets trucked away. And Benjamin Button is a child. He has the mentality of a child. But he's growing up in a retirement home where everyone

[01:12:01] else has this like, them's the brakes, people get carted off. Yeah. And he's, it teaches him the sort of, I don't know, the ephemerality. Yeah. It does. Of life. I mean, I like the way that Marcus Altenfuss and my girl were growing up in the fucking funeral home.

[01:12:18] That's a little too extreme. I also think that... Because it doesn't curse him. It doesn't make him dark. No. For all of his innate sort of, you know, high mindedness or sort of evolved view of death, I like that the movie also in little ways,

[01:12:30] kind of is like, he's kind of annoying. Like, because us who are aging the other direction are like, okay, yeah, great. We get it. Like, it's nothing to be scared of, but it is scary. Yes. And I think that's part of why Daisy, who is,

[01:12:42] a really well drawn kind of blithe artist character, is also just like a little bit like, get out of my face, man. Like, I can't have this, like... She's not ready for him. You're too enlightened. For a lot of it. Right. And I think we all,

[01:12:53] a lot of us aren't. But look, my baby was not born 80 years old. I'm willing to admit. Born baby-ish. She was born baby-ish. But like, those early scenes too, where he's just by her bed and he's so helpless, it does remind me of that. You know,

[01:13:07] it is so universal, just like, you know, the bond you have and just caring for that. God, this movie like really fucked me up at the end. So, another thing Fincher kept saying in the commentary, because we're getting to the Daisy meeting... Sure. ...is like,

[01:13:25] my read on this movie is fundamentally that this is not a story about them being destined for each other. No, because that would be ludicrous. These are not star-crossed lovers. He's always loved her. Yes. But that's a little different. But that's what he said. He said it's basically

[01:13:39] two people who, whether they know it or not, almost non-verbally made a promise to each other when they were young. And it's about how this promise ties them in their minds to each other. But it's not that I think they could only be together or they were destined

[01:13:52] to always be together. And I think Paramount really wanted that for it to be this like epic faded romance. Right. And he kept on pushing back against that. Jenny running across the reflecting pool. Paramount definitely sells it that way as best they can... Totally, yeah.

[01:14:05] ...with them on the poster and all that. But like, when we get to the scene Paris, the accident, the two of them, the two of the dogs getting fucked up, the car crash and everything. Yes. They were like, see, this is what we're saying. Do this.

[01:14:20] The world is bringing them together. And it's like, yeah, but when he goes to visit her, she's like, get out of here. Right. I'm not ready for you yet, man. Right. Yeah. Right. And it is that thing of like there's something... She is an old soul, right?

[01:14:35] Which is helped by the fact that you have an adult woman voicing it over Dakota Fanning. Right. Elle Fanning, excuse me. Yeah. But it is that like, it's like the ex you never got over. Or not even... It's the person where the circumstances never lined up. Right.

[01:14:49] And can you ever go home again? You know, because going back, going to him is, in her view, an admission of defeat. Yeah. And defeat is given to her not by her own choice, you know, unfortunately. Right. But even then she's like, I don't, you know...

[01:15:01] No, you're totally right. Like he is kind of too familiar in a way. And I think a thing that like crystallizes the fact that they're gonna be hung up on each other forever, not that they're destined to be together forever. Not that they're destined together,

[01:15:11] but that they're sort of like stuck being fixated on each other. Is Phyllis Somerfield's reaction to them being under the table. Where it's like an incredibly innocent thing to them that is treated with such disgust and paranoia and disdain. Where they were like, well if you're making

[01:15:26] a big deal out of this, what is actually going on here? Right. You know? And I think it's interesting because I feel like, I mean obviously in Forrest Gump he doesn't really have the capacity to understand. He, you know, he understands Jenny in a way

[01:15:40] and that he loves her in a way. But I think in this movie, I feel like I would have expected kind of love to reenter his life. But like he pursues her in a very direct way. It's not like we met up and like, oh how you been?

[01:15:57] Oh, I see you're dating this guy. Like okay. He's like upfront. He's like, no, I came here to think I thought I was gonna sweep you off your feet. Like I like how direct that is. So it's fascinating that every time she's kind of leading the scene

[01:16:09] and then there's the moment where she goes, I'm sorry, I've been talking about myself all night. You haven't said anything. He's like, well, I like to listen. And then when she finally passes the baton to him, he's like, here I stand before you

[01:16:20] once again asking for a hand in marriage. She's like, fuck off. And he disappears for another seven years. Yeah. I think that's, I think she's such a well-drawn character. I mean Blanchett turns out, can act. Like where you're like, I mean we all are in the arts.

[01:16:31] Like I fucking know those people who are like, oh my God, it's so good to see you and then talk for 30 minutes and have not even asked you if they can like hang your coat up. I think she gets that about that character exactly. Really?

[01:16:42] Do you think so? Where was she about to go? Was she about to do Sydney Theatre Company? CB? Yeah. Well, she's just coming off her Oscar for The Aviator Gala. Right. And her near win for I'm Not There. That's the year before this. The year before this? Yeah.

[01:16:57] Because Aviator is of course 04, right? And then I'm Not There is 07. It's kind of astonishing she didn't get nominated for this. I remember, especially for her first year of acting, it was like, I remember, especially for a movie that was so Oscar rich.

[01:17:10] Yeah, but she didn't have the buzz. Like people, it's because this movie disappointed, quote unquote. I just remember thinking this performance in particular was undeniable and it's equally fascinating that Pitt got nominated for such a passive character that they usually don't go for, but it's the special effects

[01:17:23] of the thing. It's partly that, but it's also partly not to be an Oscar, like, you know, overread or whatever. Yeah. Like Pitt had not been nominated since 12 Monkeys. 12 Monkeys. Yeah. And I think that's Yeah. And I think that's the reason why Pitt got nominated since 12 Monkeys. 12 Monkeys.

[01:17:41] Battle was the one people thought was kind of close. Right, but it was sort of time to be like, yes, yes. Forgot they had done that together already at this point too. They had, yeah. They had. Almost everyone in this movie has won. Battle was what, 2006? 2006. Yeah.

[01:17:59] And Kate, you know, had won an Oscar and been nominated multiple times and I think they're probably like, Julie, Changeling. Right. Julie and Changeling. She's sort of sneaking in because that movie had kind of like up and down buzz. That's the slot that I thought

[01:18:13] should have been Blanchett's. I think. Well, the thing about the Blanchett is that up until rewatching it, that movie's not good. She's not good at changing. I recommend rewatching it. I'll fucking rewatch it. I recommend rewatching it as the beginning of The Railroading. It's his first movie

[01:18:25] about railroading. I'm not kidding. I'm honestly really serious. Chugga chugga chugga chugga. It really, the train is pulling into the station because I was like, well, he loves stories about railroading. And then I was like, wait, no. This is the beginning of Eastwood's love affair with railroadees.

[01:18:40] She got railroaded. She fucking got railroaded. I don't deny that. Because they gave her a boy who didn't have a foreskin. That wasn't her boy. And she was like, my kid was uncircumcised. And they were like, yeah, he probably got circumcised. You like that it's a foreskin thriller.

[01:18:52] It's just so crazy that she's like, am I getting a different penis? And they're like, penises change all the time. You crazy old lady. Pulled it out. He's like, I'm not gonna do it. He's like, I'm not gonna do it. You crazy old lady. Pulled it out.

[01:19:05] He's got a Benjamin Dicks disease. I don't know. Like that's how railroaded her ass was. Yeah. She couldn't even be like, look, the one fundamental thing with guys where it's one or the other. It's, you know, it went from a Y to an N, you know?

[01:19:19] And then she got railroaded, man. By fucking Bernardus. Bernardus is her. She got railroaded. I was going to say about the Blanchett. She's good in this though, Blanchett. It's just kind of like, it's Cate Blanchett. She's fine. I'm sorry. It's Hathaway, it's Joe Lee, it's Leo.

[01:19:34] The winner that year is... Go ahead. Why am I not thinking of who this is? This is the slumdog year. Is it Winslet? Oh, it's the reader. Yes. And then who's the fifth nominee? Uh, so I'm sorry. Hathaway, Joe Lee, uh, Leo, Winslet. Um,

[01:19:51] so where the fuck are the Oscars? I just had them. Jeez Louise. They went away because I got so pumped up about fucking getting railroaded. About fucking being? Um. You were saying something you want to get railed by Jeffrey Donovan? What? Oh, well the fifth nominee. What?

[01:20:05] I have some doubts about this nomination. Oh, it's your least favorite performer. It's Meryl Streep in that. But I mean, she was pretty much guaranteed that nom. That is not a field that you're like, well Blanchett was going to be on the outside

[01:20:17] because the competition was so stiff. Maybe it's not a field that you would say that about, but there are certainly big names. Sure. You know, like, uh, like, a couple of huge names with soft nominations. Um, but, but Blanchett didn't even get a Golden Globe. No.

[01:20:38] Do you want to know the Golden Globe nominees? Yes please. And drama for 2008? It's four of the ones we just said and then Kristen Scott Thomas. Cause doubts in comedy. Oh, and I know I loved you. What's? I've loved you so long. Right. Oh,

[01:20:53] that's sort of a surprise. The French language one. Yeah. Has this had Oscar buzz done that movie yet? They should. I mean, it's a sensual. David, can you imagine if Kristen Scott Thomas directed a bad movie? One of the worst fucking things.

[01:21:04] One of those things where two minutes and I was like, oh, David and I just got back from Toronto. But then you said she comes in at the end and does 10 minutes and proves herself as the Kristen Scott Thomas of acting. The whole point, the whole,

[01:21:14] I can just imagine this is Kristen Scott Thomas in a movie called North Star. She directed it. It's clearly about her own life. And we're all rooting for her. Premiere to Toronto. I love Kristen Scott Thomas. Yes, she's great. And it's got Scarlett Johansson,

[01:21:25] who she's now worked with three times, Horse Whisperer, Other Bling Girl, Wild. But it's nice that they clearly have a lifelong connection. Sienna Miller and unnamed British actress who's very good, whose name I forget. Oh, it's Emily Beacham. Emily Beacham. Yes. A Cannes Best Actress winner.

[01:21:41] Poor Scar Jo is doing an English accent next to the Sienna. Playing an aircraft carrier captain? Correct. A gay aircraft carrier captain. Normal. Of course. But like every time she has to, you know, Sienna Miller is good. What's her ethnicity? And Beacham is good.

[01:21:56] And they are speaking in there. And then Scarlett Johansson will be like, oh, bloody hell mates. And I'm just like, oh God, this is so rough. And then Kristen Scott Thomas plays their mom, her own mother, who's a Suze.

[01:22:07] And I can just see her on set being like, yes, no, I'll just, I'll be over here. I'll have a couple scenes. Every time, there's a hydro cannon on her back. That's what he said. He said she's just hydro blasting everyone off the screen. She's so good.

[01:22:23] I mean, also you're just dying in this movie. You're just being kind of funny. You're like, thank God. So a professional has arrived, you know? God, that movie stunk. Yeah. I heard it was bad. Fucking Katie Rich brought me to it. The only one,

[01:22:37] one TIF mistake I made was that one. Well, never listened to her. No, that's not true. She told me to see his three daughters and I wept like a baby. I also did. Anyway, Kristen Scott Thomas. What else? Golden Globes. Oh, that's it though.

[01:22:51] It's a half the way in drama. Oh, who was in comedy? Oh, it was Angelina for Dixwell. No, excuse me. Wasn't it? Leo is the one who comes out in no lead for Revolutionary Road and then reader for support. That's right. But still, it's a Winslet Hathaway, Jolie,

[01:23:06] Streep. Yeah. And then Kristen Scott Thomas and then Melissa Leo sneaks in. Okay. Uh, which is that's a good movie. She gets the, um, right. Um, no frozen river. Oh, wind river. I'm shaky. No, frozen river is a good movie. I mean, she's, she's excellent.

[01:23:26] Is Melissa Leo still running drugs across the Canadian border during the strike? Yeah. Well, I mean, she's got to earn a living. Wow. She just Melissa. Here's my pitch. Yeah. Melissa Leo and a Liam Neeson style action thriller. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You,

[01:23:43] you finally joined me on equalizer Island. Been watching the equalizer movies. Melissa Leo's thrown a heat. She is. And there's one action scene she has in two that you can tell she's excited that she's like, I finally get to do one of these. You leave that wanting more.

[01:23:55] Yeah. And she's hard bitten. But in that movie, she's wearing the, the, the, the medical glasses from the big short. Yes. And she's also wearing the consider for coat. That's the costume. Yes. And her dodecahedron costume from oblivion. She plays dodecahedron. She plays the, the,

[01:24:13] the thing from out of this world. Remember that show? Um, no. Um, uh, curious case of Ben Heman button. Okay. He, he, he old little, he makes a connection with Daisy. He started, he started old and little. Yeah. He old little. He makes the connection with Daisy. Um,

[01:24:31] he, uh, meets various people such as OT. Yes. Right. That's the guy who kind of opens up his world. Uh, who's the first person to take him out of the old people's home basically. Right? Like, so they, like they go to a place.

[01:24:47] He tests out what it is to have people regard him. Right. And look at him a bit of scant, but also it's like, well, okay. Right. And it helps that, you know, OT is a little, a little fellow and right. Yes. And it's comfortable in his own skin.

[01:25:01] Yes. That's the thing with the kids where he, you know, he startles them and it's cute. Yeah. Uh, takes him to a brothel for the first time where he by pure happenstance sees Mr. Button. Well, Mr. Button sees him. Yes. And says that might be my, Mr. Button.

[01:25:19] This is my old man, baby. My old man, 15 year old going into that lady's room. Yeah. I'm sharing a wall with some 85 year old who fucks like a 15 year old. That might be my son. This movie is crazy. It's fundamentally so crazy.

[01:25:31] That's why it's so funny that it is this like lovely trickly movie. Yeah. But it's also a movie where this, this my friends was a poster. This was a poster. This, this, the baby poster, baby butt poster. Baby, but there you go.

[01:25:43] Doesn't that make you want to see a movie? Cause the main poster was just Blanchett and Pitt looking hot as hell. Just their two faces with like Vanity Fair portraits. Right. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I feel like wasn't the hummingbird in a lot of the marketing. It was,

[01:25:53] I feel like remember here's the thing Fincher said that I thought was interesting. He was like, people are going to be like, oh, this is a movie about a guy who's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like,

[01:26:06] he's like, he's like, he's like, because of the, the passion of the animateor. This was perfectly correct. So the, the scorpion thing wasn't really being understood by globally. There wasn't like a term call to trust. It was just sort of in thisFive-year sponge because we were

[01:26:16] basically commentators and, and actors with reversed conversation, where we try to grapple with different views. what is your best advert? I always remember the sense of a side hero being introduced by Hank Yes. If he hasn't already. David, when have I ever disagreed on that point?

[01:26:44] From the day I met you. Hello, I'm David Sims. I think Eric Roth should open a soup restaurant called Eric Broth. I agree. Let's have a podcast. Wait, no, can I get that clean one more time? Eric Roth should open a soup restaurant called Eric Broth. Great, perfect.

[01:26:58] Yeah, exactly. Eventually, okay, look. Yeah. He fuck. He meet Daisy. Oh, that's what I wanted to say. That's what I wanted to say. Sorry. That the thing that the sex worker says is like, you're a regular Dick Tracy. Right.

[01:27:14] That's her line for how good he is at sex. Sure. Was he known to be a... I don't really think of it. I think he had lady luck. Is that why Warren Beatty was drawn to the role? Maybe. Yeah. He is named Dick. He does.

[01:27:27] Maybe he was tracing his dick for her on some wax paper. Yeah, he did do that. I don't know. He was tracing his dick for her on some wax paper. Fincher in the comments here keeps saying like, this was the shot that my special effects

[01:27:36] supervisor almost quit over. Right. Was like, I'm going to kill you. He's got to be in the bathtub. And they'd be like, can we put a collar on him? It's easier if there's some line between the neck and the body.

[01:27:44] He's like, no, he doesn't wear a collar in the bathtub. And they get to the stuff. And he was like, I just kept saying to him, this is the job you signed up for. You have to do it. Right. Then what... Go ahead.

[01:27:56] He said the sex scene in the brothel is the one he folded on. But there was a like, as written, a four page scene where she gave him a cloth and she he washed his genitals and they had a long conversation. Sure.

[01:28:05] And the special effects guy was like, can he just be under the covers? Right. Come on. If they're both naked, their bodies touching each other with covers on top, it's going to take 15 years. Right. They would... I forgot to say that. You don't see him during that scene.

[01:28:17] They would call the people who played the body doubles smurfs because they wore a blue sock over their head. Yeah. It is insane to imagine all of these scenes being shot with a little body double with

[01:28:28] a blue sock over his head while everyone else is just acting normal. It's like the Dana Carvey finding out about 9-11 while in the Master of Disguise turtle suit. He was in the turtle suit. We know that. Right?

[01:28:40] Like, it's that kind of thing of like, like this serious movie and the surreality of actually being on set and he's just like men covered in blue. Yes. Look, I just have to tell you that he fuck, he meet Daisy and then he become tugboat. Yes.

[01:28:53] That's where we're going. He becomes a guy on a tugboat. Yes. I watched this movie in two chunks. It's two hours and 45 minutes long. Very long. And it's slow. It's long, it's slow, it's methodical, and it has digressions like Mr. Cake, like the

[01:29:09] long, oh, all the things that happened before Daisy got hit by a car, you know, things like that where I'm sure there was a person being like, um, could we? Oh, Fincher keeps saying, talking about stuff they cut and saying we ultimately made the

[01:29:20] decision to cut the thing down to the bone. So I'm like, oh, so there was a five hour version. I would love to see that because I don't, cause like the Daisy stuff, the lightning stuff, all that, like the days and get, you know, the butterfly effect.

[01:29:33] Like I think it's all great and I think it doesn't feel like embellishment in a way that it would in a lesser director's hands. Like had Gary Ross done that. Yeah. I'd say Gary get in out in 90 minutes. Yeah. Um, but, uh, the Daisy day, oh, tugboat tugboat.

[01:29:49] Right. Yeah. I watched it. It's, you know, two hours. It's a five hour, 25 pretty much. I split it up for, and I will say Benjamin Button part one, I do prefer to Benjamin Button part two. Okay.

[01:30:01] Benjamin Button part, I cut it off right when the war ends after Jared Harris dies. And you're kind of like, this is a masterpiece. And then I think the latter half, which is a lot of Daisy is, is very slow and is sometimes a little watch commercial.

[01:30:15] Not that it's a bad thing, but you know, Benjamin Buttons adventures are sometimes, I do think he's about to turn around and offer me like a timeshare, you know? He'll have a couple of his espresso and it can only earn Japan. Exactly.

[01:30:31] Uh, I think the ending hits really hard for me and I think it's good, but you know, but tugboat is so much of this movie. I mean, Jared Harris, it's just one of my favorite guys. He has come up a number of times on the podcast.

[01:30:42] I'm always delighted by him, but I do think his run after this is really good where it feels like people start giving him more meat. You know? Yeah, I mean, yeah. Cause it's like, obviously he's burdened and helped by being the son of a famous actor

[01:30:59] who kind of looks like his dad. Like they resemble each other. And so it's like he's been getting work for you. Obviously I shot Andy Warhol. I feel like his, his biggest role in a way before Mad Men. Right?

[01:31:13] I'm like looking at this very little bit like, you know, Lost in Space. I mean, he's dubbed in that movie, but he's in Smoke. Yes. Peter Newman produced. It goes down my favorite movie when I was 12. Yeah. I can't believe what you saw in that movie.

[01:31:27] Uh, I remember when I was 12. I know. No, no, I'm joking Griffin. You were like, you know, come on. I saw too much in that movie. Resonant for you as a 12 year old. But he's really good in that film. Um, you know, uh, lots of other stuff.

[01:31:38] Uh, Mr. Deeds apparently he's in that. Oh, he's really good in Mr. Deeds. He's been in the right as boss. I feel like he has a pretty big role in Sylvia, which is sort of a forgotten movie. But I remember him being good.

[01:31:48] Doesn't he play the foreskin in Changeling? He does. Yes, he does. But he's someone where they took me off at this point. Still, I'm like, that's nice that someone hired Jared Harrison is letting him go off. Right.

[01:32:00] And then the second he gets mad men, it's everyone like realizing like, why have we been sleeping on this guy? This guy should be getting everything.

[01:32:08] And a big just like I think kind of turning point moment is, you know, in the first Sherlock Holmes, Moriarty is in shadows. Yes, he is. And they're like in the second one, we're actually going to put Moriarty in.

[01:32:20] And Guy Ritchie's claim were it claim was I'm trying to get Brad Pitt to do it. And our backup is Daniel Day-Lewis. Cool. Right. They were just shooting big. Yeah. And they couldn't get either guy to commit. Brad Pitt would have been horrible. Would have been terrible.

[01:32:35] And Daniel Day-Lewis never would have done it. No. And they couldn't get either guy to commit. They started filming the second movie without the role cast. And they were like, we're hoping we're going to get one of them on board.

[01:32:46] And then they just go like, fuck it, Jared Harris. And it works. And they just made the choice of being like, we don't need to cast a big star. Jared Harris will just kill this. He'll kill this. Give him a character poster.

[01:32:56] Which is often a good choice to make. Yeah. He's good in it. Yeah. Yeah. He's always good. It's fun in this to watch him on the more disheveled end of what he normally plays. Yes.

[01:33:09] You know, like, because I mean, I first really knew him from Mad Men and you know, he has a tragic ending in that, but he's more buttoned up and whatever. He's, you know, British and, you know, in a suit.

[01:33:18] And this is just like full tilt, just like messy, drunk all the time. And he does it just as well. He does it really well. And it's also like, you want some life in this movie. The most Ben character in the movie, right? Yeah. I love this guy.

[01:33:31] The tattooed tugboat captain. He looks so damn good. He looks great. That scene where him and Benjamin are watching video tapes on the porch. He's got a Hosley color. Playing Sega Genesis. I don't know how they got one in the 40s. He does. He has your complexion.

[01:33:45] He does. 100%. Absolutely. Yeah. I would love to hang with Jared. You're always getting shot on boats, you know? I mean, truly in a different life, I would have been a tugboat captain. Absolutely. It's almost astounding that it isn't happening in this life.

[01:33:58] Also just kind of seems like the best job where it's like, what do you do? I'm on the seas. You know, I'm a captain. Yeah. Okay. What is your job? Well, they tie a rope to a big boat and I just kind of go forward.

[01:34:07] Might wife be the ocean. David, a rope. I have a feeling it might be a huge fucking chain. Oh! Okay. Okay. Benjamin does tugboating. Tugboats over to Russia. All that stuff. They get shot up by a U-boat. Yeah. He dies.

[01:34:27] Which I didn't know that tugboats could go all that way. Are they doing more cargo at that point? I don't really know. I don't know. But I love the stuff with them sort of heading into this wintry, you know, it's always nighttime.

[01:34:39] I feel like in those, in those, is that Siberia? It's not. It's sort of the other side. It's near like Finland. Oh, okay. I also love that when Button is very young, everyone who looks at him is like, well, that's a freak of nature. Right?

[01:34:54] They look at him with like disgust and disdain. And then basically, starting from the brothel age on, they're like, this old man behaves a little strangely. Right. But he gets to basically be in the biological equivalent of like two kids stacked on top

[01:35:08] of each other in a trench coat where he's like an undercover kid that adults speak to as if he is wiser than them and has lived more than they have. Yeah. And he just kind of hangs back and is like, as long as no one catches me.

[01:35:21] And in his kind of laconic nature. Yeah. They respect him more, you know, like there's a bit of a Chauncey Gardner where they're like projecting onto his silence. Exactly. This man is running so deep, which is what everyone in the movie is doing.

[01:35:34] Like he must know something we don't. And it's like, no, he's aging like the rest. I'm 15 years old. Right. Exactly. Like I love all this. He's like so excited to be living the life of one. I've had sex once. High adventure. I'm a real Dick Tracy.

[01:35:47] Of course, this is, yes, when he has his first love affair with Elizabeth Abbott played by Tilda Swinton. The wife of a spy. Yes, a performance I'm also a little astounded didn't get nomination. She's so good. It's I think it's probably too quiet a performance.

[01:36:00] No, and Taraji obviously gets the nomination. And she's so good in Burnham after reading this year as well, which they give, Batha gives her a nomination. Will she won an Oscar the year after? The year before. Is Clayton year after year before? Oh, year before. Year before.

[01:36:15] So she's just won an Oscar. Yeah, like literally half a year after. Hey, I love Tilda. She's so good in this. She's playing his paper though. But I know I'm barely fucking remember that she's in it. Yeah, I mean, Fincher like mocks that on the commentary.

[01:36:27] It's like she's the most extraordinary looking person. How can we do this? She's very straight. He didn't say who it was, but he said there was an actress he really wanted and he kept on saying, that's why I think we should hire him.

[01:36:37] When I don't know, I don't know. And it was getting to the point where he was like, if we're not going to what's your problem with this person? He's like, I don't know. I don't dislike that person, but I think we can do better.

[01:36:47] And he's like, OK, then I give you five minutes. Sure. Call me back in five minutes. If there's someone who's better than this person who is very good, we both agree it

[01:36:56] should be so obvious that if you can't think of the name in five minutes, I'm going with Melissa Leo. Right. Yeah. And then like pick called him three minutes later and said, tell us when he was like, you're right. No, she's better. I wonder who was.

[01:37:08] I know that's intriguing. But it's sort of an insult if it comes out, though, which is why he clearly didn't even allude to who it was. Yes. Had they worked together before? They hadn't. Well, that was I think Burn After Reading must have happened after this chronologically. Right.

[01:37:24] That's the thing. When did those two. It comes out a couple of months before. But like, did he produce Adaptation? She's in that. I can't remember when Plan B was rolling up its sleeves.

[01:37:34] I mean, not that Brad Pitt's like, you know, an active producer on some of these. Although he has two Best Picture Oscars. We assume he won one for 12 Years a Slave, right? Did he win? And he didn't get one for Moonlight. Those are both Plan B. They are.

[01:37:50] But right. But I think he was left off for Moonlight, but I think 12 Years a Slave. He's in it. Yeah. Great performance. But like, I guess because he's in it. Anyway, that whole segment is sort of my favorite part of the movie.

[01:38:08] Is them in the hotel having tea and then. Yeah. Well, fucking yeah. Doing a little Dick Tracy-ing. It's also like this is where the age stuff gets interesting, where it's like, here's this woman who's maybe like given up on excitement in her life. Right.

[01:38:27] And here she's having this kind of like final surprise surge whirlwind romance for a moment. And for him, this is his first love. Yeah. You know, like he's catching someone on the decline and this is the first time. It's not his first time having sex.

[01:38:41] And she thinks that they're simpatico in that. Yes. Yeah. And they've both, you know, gone over some peak of life. Right. And we've ended up in this wintry town in the middle of nowhere. But he's like a college freshman. Yeah. Yep. It's undeniable.

[01:38:56] He has a crush on his professor and that's her. Yes. Of course, she is a Diana Nyad type who wants to, you know, swim the channel. There are so many Diana Nyad types. I'm sick of them. Simon Dawson. Jellyfish always after them.

[01:39:09] And so, you know, that's her lifelong dream. She's incredibly good and it's that kind of performance where you're just like, it's just all stripped away. It's so simple what she's doing. It's just presence, you know? And it's honest. And it's a beautiful backstory.

[01:39:26] Like if they were going to pick one pertinent detail for her backstory, she almost swam the English Channel once 40 years ago or however long it was supposed to be. 30 years ago. Yeah, because it's this other running theme of the movies which is like missed opportunities. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:39:41] And like all of the regret about that. And then obviously that line about like the Jared Harris has about like you can hate how this happened. Right. Yeah. Almost everyone he's meeting along the way is in some way burdened by the thing they fucked up

[01:39:53] or the thing that fucked them over from getting to do what they wanted to do at their peak. So you feel like, well, Benjamin Button is going to peak so late that he'll have the knowledge

[01:40:02] that all of us wish we had when we were in our body in that state. And he doesn't. No. You know? No, exactly. He has regrets same as anybody else. But it doesn't gain him anything. No. We can talk about that more in a second.

[01:40:14] But obviously then he goes back to Nautilus. Nautilus. Learns that Marshall had died. Meets Mr. Button for real for the first time. Reveals who he is. He reveals who he is, shows him a big button factory and leaves it to him. Button Factory never comes up again. No.

[01:40:33] But I guess he's just kind of collecting button checks. It is so funny. Well, I don't know. The button industry probably was winding down after, right? Well, but he kind of says like, look, World War I was a good time for buttons. People need buttons. Yeah. Right.

[01:40:46] It's just so funny that like, you're like Benjamin Button. Good character name. What's his deal? He's the heir to the button fortune. What do they do? Make buttons? Yeah, they do. They fucking make buttons. That's what he wants from me. Okay.

[01:40:57] Well, can the Paramount logo be a bunch of buttons? Yeah, I already did it for you. Here it is. Press play. Warner Brothers too. Yeah, I do them already. Yeah, fucking all of it. Buttons everywhere. Like that movie starts with the buttons.

[01:41:08] You're like, damn, is this movie going to be buttony? And then like after a while, I get no buttons. It's about an old guy. And then at the end of the hour, they're like, buttons! Yeah, more butt than buttons for the first 20 minutes. There's some butt.

[01:41:19] You got a little baby tushie. Benjamin goes to see Daisy in New York, but she's a young woman. She's being bohemian. She's being bohemian. She's self-involved. He's standing there in the corner. He looks like fucking Orson Bean. You know, come on. You know, I was thinking about it.

[01:41:33] Like someone watched Equalizer 2 today. Did you know Orson Bean died in a car accident? Yes. You're like, oh, Orson Bean died. How old is he? 91. You're like, oh, that's a grand old age. Oh, he died in 2020. He did die of COVID. No, he died February 2020. Oh, okay.

[01:41:48] Well, but of old age, right? No, a car hit him. Right. That guy was indestructible until someone mowed him down. What is it? Desmond Llewyn or whatever? Desmond Llewyn. Terrible. I was thinking about in the great scene when he goes to see her in New York and she's

[01:42:01] like, when I would do plays in college and like a high school friend would come see it. And then after the play, I want to go to the cast party or hang out with my theater friends. And here's this person from my old other life.

[01:42:13] And it was who I love, but like it was so hard to reconcile those things. And I think this movie, that's a pretty complicated dynamic for a big blockbuster prestige Oscar movie to like even bother with.

[01:42:25] But this is a movie that I think, you know, Fincher is only interested in those dynamics. He goes for all the weird, hard to pin down little like moments and energy shifts and all that thing rather than the huge things. Right. Well, because the thing is about Fincher.

[01:42:42] That usually lead a movie like this to Oscar glory. He's not like I think he had obviously and you guys are going to talk about this on the whole season, but like obviously reputation, cool, dark, all that stuff. But he's always a humanist. Yes.

[01:42:54] He is interested in human behavior. These people are not just sort of like objects that he wants to move around to get pretty pictures or interesting pictures. By the way, this movie, he takes this on pretty shortly after his own father dies as well. Right.

[01:43:07] He said that Benjamin Button behavior is largely modeled after his father, that his father was this kind of passive listener wallflower guy and that his father had all this ambition to make films which he tried to realize within his father's own life.

[01:43:22] And he didn't, you know, like this movie is him working through his shit as much as Eric Roth was in writing the script. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's something gentle about it. Zank. Zank. Zank. Zank. Zank. Then Cate Blanchett gets Orson Beaned. I'm sorry.

[01:43:42] It's incredibly, incredibly offensive joke. I'm really sorry. But she does get hit by a car. That sequence is, you know, it's a little like Paul Thomas, a little Magnolia. Yeah, it's a little Magnolia. You know, where you're kind of like, okay.

[01:43:57] But like it's effective, I think, you know, though, if only, you know. But in the same way that a lot of this movie's gumpisms are actually anti-gumpisms, this is sort of the anti-Magnolia, which is like Ricky Jay is saying, like, surely these things mean something.

[01:44:13] The connectedness is crucial, right? Even if we can't. And Benjamin Button is just like, man, I don't know shit happens. Roll the clock backwards. Yeah. Everything is causally related in some way. And so whatever. What can you do? But that doesn't make you important. No, no, no.

[01:44:27] It doesn't mean there was any vendetta being settled. No. But and it's like, it means that Daisy will not be quote unquote important in terms of like, she will not enjoy celebrity. Sure. Right?

[01:44:39] You know, she will have to go back and marry a, you know, a button freak. But even beyond that, just her life will remain fundamentally forever unfulfilled. There is a part of her that never got to know.

[01:44:49] But of course, that doesn't mean she has a bad life in any way. I mean, you know, maybe Benji could have stuck around. Sarah Silverman in Take This Waltz, life has a gap. You don't go crazy trying to fill it. And that's a pretty big gap for Daisy.

[01:45:01] But like, yes. Remember when Sarah Pollock won an Oscar that year? It was so great. Yeah. But I was so happy. Me too. I was so happy. Yeah. I almost fucking had to play the fax machine for the fifth time while quiet on the Western

[01:45:12] front was going to get on stage again. It was gonna be so bad. When they play that fucking fax machine score, it's like, it sounds like. I didn't know what you meant by play the fax machine. His fucking movie has that score that sounds like a dial-up modem.

[01:45:27] Or like a dot matrix printer. Yeah, exactly. And they had to, you know, one again, play the fucking fax machine. So annoying. And then it was like, we've been talking and then you have Francis McDormand's big head. Sorry.

[01:45:42] It's also that was the only major award that A24 didn't win. Yeah. Whale or everything. A24 won picture, director, original screenplay, all four acting categories. All four acting categories. That's what. When going back to Daisy, when you zoom out back to the hospital room and that you find

[01:46:04] out the daughter never knew about her dancing career. That. Yeah. I've never seen this. Destroying me. Because I have great parents. This is what I'm fucking talking about. But who are people that are very deeply private and they're now getting, you know, later into

[01:46:23] their lives and they just will sometimes. They'll let something slip. They'll just throw a little. When I was a cowboy. And you're like, what the fuck? How had you never shared this with me before?

[01:46:34] This shapes my view of you in such a, like I see you in a completely different way now. Overshare with your children is what we're saying. But I think that in this movie's psychology, and maybe it's more grandiose for Daisy than

[01:46:47] it is for your parents, Ben, is that like, it hurts to talk about a little bit. It's sad to talk about. No, but I also, it gave me perspective too because I do understand this is like one of the like most tragic parts of her life.

[01:46:59] On my read. She doesn't want to talk about it. Yes. She can't think about it. It's too hurtful. No, I don't like, I feel like what I was talking about how memory becomes myth and then you tell the stories to other people, it becomes abstracted even more. Right?

[01:47:12] So I ask you in small talk, like, so what are your parents like? What do they do? You know, you give like this bullet point version of your parents' life consolidated into like six sentences and you've more greatly condensed what they've condensed in telling

[01:47:26] to you, leaving out these large swaths. And then when you find out one of these things, which has happened with my parents as well over the last couple of years, my grandmother who's much, much older and I've been trying

[01:47:35] to pull stuff out of while she's still here, you like hear these anecdotes and you go like My entire notion of you is completely disrupted. I don't know how to slot that in between these two points in the six sentences I used to have about you.

[01:47:48] Like the story that I have created for you is now you've distorted that. You created a story in your life and then I created it even further and I don't know how to fit it in here.

[01:47:59] It's missing episodes, a season of a show that I never got to see and whatever. And there's also that moment Julia Roman plays so well where it's because they only cut back to them like five times maybe.

[01:48:11] Yeah, but she's reading the book and she looks up and she says like you must have met dad pretty shortly after and she's doing the math. And she's doing the math of just like at this point there's a 50 50 shot that this button dude is my biological father.

[01:48:29] I know when I was born. I know when dad would have to answer the button money. Right. All of us. It's getting it's getting like uncomfortably close and it's not a thing she can yell at her mother about her mother can barely breathe. She chastises her mother though.

[01:48:41] She's like I'm finding out this way. This is you know she does have that moment. There's only a degree to which she can't relitigate. What will it open it all up. Speaking of Ormond, I also love it's one line that they never revisit again where she's

[01:48:55] saying well you know I have you know I haven't made much of my life like Julia Ormond saying that and it's like see everyone feels like it's just it's not just characters an astronaut. Right. Yeah. She lived in Wyoming with Brad Pitt for a while. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:49:11] No no no. That's very true. Yes. That she she's afflicted with Benjamin Button disease which we all are which is you know that's the thing I have done more. We actually all have a good look at Fincher someone who's had a great career right and

[01:49:24] was was something of like a wonder kind and everything. But could he have called himself to Finchman earlier. Could he have had all his movies called Finchman Joints. That it took the doughboys to come up with the name he should have been assigning himself from the very beginning.

[01:49:36] Oh but also like certainly a director who had a serious case of the attaches over years you know projects that you fall apart that he drops out of that he gets fired off of

[01:49:46] all these things you know you're just like he must be overridden with a sense of like if I had made this movie at this point does my career go this way instead of that way.

[01:49:55] He and Del Toro should go get drinks and talk about exactly that and just try to work through some things. This is our new phrase that JJ coined. It's good. It's good and it describes a very particular kind of director.

[01:50:07] You have to be a pretty big director because it means lots of people want you to make their move. And those two guys even are like but let's not invite Romanek. Well no but he's got chronic attaches. And he's addicted. He never gets the mace.

[01:50:19] He's too much of a bummer. He just got hit by a car in Paris. Like we're not. Yeah. Yeah. Just like what if it said like directed. You got Orson. How about this. How about this. Directed by David Fincher. OK. Next credit comes up.

[01:50:36] From da desk of da Finchman. That'd be his writing. That should be his version of Spike Lee Joint. There you go. But it's said in I know they have a voice for it but I think it should be said in your Verhoeven voice.

[01:50:52] From da desk of da Finchman. How about sprung from da twisted bean of da Finchman. There you go. Part two of this film is the settling part. You know Benjamin returns to New Orleans so does Daisy they reunite. Queenie dies. They fall in love. They have a kid.

[01:51:15] She opens a ballet studio. Well you're breezing through a lot of stuff. I'm not. This is the movie starts to breeze. What I know it does. What I want to say is when he comes to visit her in the hospital I think that's the first

[01:51:25] time she says you're perfect right. Which basically says variations of that three times. Like every time she sees him again he looks even better and she's more out of mostly envy. Yes. Not there is attraction there.

[01:51:38] But it's mostly the kind of thing of like me you know stand to be like I was fucking old man for right. Like come on. I got a pretty bad run. Let me enjoy this. I was seven but I looked a lot still had the voice.

[01:51:50] I mean I heard it was really good. But she her career is in some part about vanity. It's about physical ability. And every time she's like oh like like my my sister has this obsession.

[01:52:06] She's one and one and a half years older than me that I don't have any wrinkles and she does that I don't think she has wrinkles but she always like will be to all be like saying

[01:52:12] something pertinent about my life and she'll just kind of be like you don't have any wrinkles. Well I like you know it's that kind of thing. I always I always I disagree with her but I always feel terrible how I about how I look

[01:52:24] and if you show me a picture of me from three years earlier I'm like this is fucking the most common syndrome. It's always everyone has this. It's so true like where I'm like looking at a young picture myself and I'm like damn I look great.

[01:52:37] And also I'm like I know I didn't like this. I was miserable. I know I thought this looked bad. I know I thought I didn't have it. It's the myth of the button thing of your life. Juice. Right. You're like have juice.

[01:52:48] Does button like is he in the right mindset at the moment. He's in his peak condition where he would know how to use it for whatever that means right where he would appreciate it. And you're like no he doesn't. And she looks at him with spite every time.

[01:53:04] You know there's there's this brief moment in the middle where they sort of actually like are able to be with each other. It's so funny to think about. They've known each other at that point for you know his 15 or 20 years.

[01:53:16] Yeah longer than you're like this is the first time they're actually really spending extended time together. Yeah. They don't they don't actually know each other that well. It's like a day here a day there spread out by years.

[01:53:29] I kind of love when they do finally sleep together because I feel like the way it goes down is like it's very much like do you want to sleep together. Yeah. Yeah. Like I mean yeah this has been building up for a really long time.

[01:53:40] It's not like let's light a candle. Let's say she's like make love to me. He's like also we got to. Yeah. He's like yeah ripping his shirt off as as he's answering. And there's a timeline on it. They land on her. She doesn't mind.

[01:53:56] But there's like yes the timeline is is more loud for them because it's like we've been in opposite directions. This one moment we're right here at the center and then she's going to be possibly too vain

[01:54:10] to want to sleep with like beautiful 22 year old ask Benjamin you know like Johnny Suede Benjamin we call him right there. You guys are cool world. Yeah. I think another part of that too is that like you said earlier in this episode like we all

[01:54:25] know dying is inevitable. We're going towards that we know what happens. It's for you guys. Yeah. Yeah. You have no ring. No I'm fine. But like you know if you're lucky enough to have the privilege to grow old you look forward

[01:54:39] to all these things that are kind of scary and depressing and that's if you get to live a long life right. Benjamin Button is this one guy where everyone's like I actually don't know what happens the last 20 years of his life.

[01:54:50] I think everyone around him is wondering including himself do I turn to a giant baby. Do I stay this way forever. Do I like turn into dust like what happens. So like she's overcome with the like my life is on the decline. I'm past my physical peak.

[01:55:04] I'll never get to fulfill my greatest passion all this sort of stuff. And he this is what he's been looking forward to his entire life is basically him and Daisy being equals being able to be together which only satisfies him so briefly before he starts to go.

[01:55:21] But what else can I do in my life. And also what can't I do because like obviously the idea is I would settle down with a child right and like but I'd he's in a way to also too prideful to let that happen or to worry.

[01:55:32] You know like I think about my dad like it's a different sort of story but like choosing to have children you know let's say 10 years later than most people do like knowing like OK when my son's 40 I'll be 89 like you know.

[01:55:46] But like you I think this movie you're like he should have stayed at least for some time. No one fits. It's self-assertion. Yeah. Selfish. It doesn't make it because they would have figured it out.

[01:55:57] But you know he also doesn't turn into like a teenager who doesn't know anything for years. Yeah. Fincher has said that this was unsurprisingly his single biggest fight with Paramount. And it was like a point he refused to move on which is he doesn't say anything right.

[01:56:13] He just like leaves in the middle of the night. It really upset both of us when we were watching it. Yeah. Because now it feels so great. I think that's the character we built like this guy is so bottled in his emotions you

[01:56:25] know and he is just operating out of fear. And it's just like that's kind of it. And it is a point of cruelty that is hard for the audience to get past especially when it's kind of inexplicable where he can't even verbalize it to himself. Right.

[01:56:40] It just it does make it it hits flatter for me when he's like brushing his teeth on the mountain or whatever and I'm like oh great you had all your experiences buddy. Yeah. I think the other thing about like Brad Pitt getting nominated which is interesting I get

[01:56:52] why he did but like he's good in it but also like we you finish this movie being like wow we've Benjamin has expressed himself so much and it's like no only a voiceover. Yeah. Yeah. You're getting a lot of narration.

[01:57:05] It's all in his and I mean I love there's that moment where he's torn a bunch of pages out of the book. Yeah. And she's like this is and it's like we'll never fucking know because we're only reading his version of his tale. Lollapalooza. Yeah. Too curious.

[01:57:18] Too curious. This tale could be curious. Well he did. The bi-curiousness. Oh hello. He spent some time in New Mexico working on some kind of science project with some people. Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah.

[01:57:29] But also like you know comparing it to Meet Joe Black like it's kind of a similar performance like yeah like in the present tense of the movie like kind of blank curious but cold like yeah you know. Orson. Joe Black. It's Orson Bean. Yeah.

[01:57:42] Well that's not Joe Black. OK. Yeah. That's the other guy. That's the body Joe Black would have. It's an absolutely hysterical still. It is. I watched it last night. It is maybe. One it can never be deleted. No.

[01:57:55] But it is maybe the one scene where if Martin Brest was like I actually I needed to digitally alter it. I need to do a special edition. I don't know what we were thinking. Yeah. I would be like I fully understand my friend.

[01:58:05] Let's also admit that Joe Black by his very profession is basically an Orson Beaner. He can choose to Orson Bean you if he. He exists to Orson Bean. Yeah. Orson Bean is out of this plane and onto the next.

[01:58:18] So we're just now using Orson Bean to mean leaving this mortal coil. Mm hmm. RIP to Breitbart contributor Orson Bean. Did you know he became a Breitbart contributor late in life. Oh yeah. He's so good in equalizer too. He's so good at fucking being John Malkovich. Yeah.

[01:58:35] He was he was on Carson 200 times. Did you know that? No. He was like one of those guys like it was just like now Orson Bean. I just remember and he got hit by a car on Carson. He did. It's horrible. The criterion commentary for being John Malkovich.

[01:58:50] I think it might be Jones and Gondry together. Gondry. I mean Kaufman. No I think it might be Gondry. Why is Gondry involved? It's Gondry and another filmmaker. OK fine sure. Gondry's just like this part's crazy.

[01:59:02] No one point they start talking about Orson Bean they're like he was such a great actor. It's really. Like you're talking like he's dead. Yeah. And then someone Googles him in the middle of it and they were like he's still alive. And Spike Jonze's like what?

[01:59:12] He is so fucking funny in being John Malkovich that like where he's just being normal and introducing the job and then he talks about like how this woman's like breasts are divine ambrosia and she's so funny. Yes. It's like my favorite bit.

[01:59:27] He also does all the exposition in that movie. Yes. Of how it works. No he's great. Yeah. He's great. I just like the Spike Jonze was sort of talking with the knowledge of like and I went to visit him in his dying days.

[01:59:37] And he's like I assumed we shot this movie 20 years ago. That guy's still. No he's apparently lining up a Denzel sequel. As long as he never tries to cross the road he'll live forever. I apologize to the friends and family of Orson Bean.

[01:59:54] So yes he abandons his family. He Johnny Suede's himself. He cool worlds himself. He Thelma and Louise's all the way right back to the ballet studio. California is mostly in shadow. The aging does work but it's all done very carefully where it's like we do not see too

[02:00:08] much. No. Yes. To keep it from feeling waxy. Yeah. Interesting thing Fincher said is because the aging on Cate Blanchett is so good. Yeah. And for this being pretty early in that technology when it often looks so bad I was like why is this better smooth face.

[02:00:24] Smooth face. He said she and I have that in common. And yep. And some of the younger scenes that he actually had to age her up. The other thing he said is her face is so sculpted that all we really did was fill in her cheekbones. Right. Yeah.

[02:00:39] That we weren't removing wrinkles. All we did was we gave her baby fat. We added cheeks and that was it. Yeah. That's interesting because she obviously has become more pinched as all people do.

[02:00:51] And then yeah Benny turns into they do have sex once when he's like Thelma and Louise. And she seems really insecure during it. It's a really good scene. That shot of her getting dressed is such a clever thing for Fincher to include.

[02:01:07] Like that vulnerability she has and obviously he's quote unquote perfect or whatever. And like how she feels perceived by him. No it's kind of there's a little bit of an interesting like baton pass. Yeah. At this point he's not a character really.

[02:01:25] You're really staying with Blanchett more in the present of the journals even though. Yeah. No it really becomes her movie for the last 20 minutes. Yes. Yeah. Then he's a teenager and he's right. He's basically a demented old man in the body of a child. It's upsetting. It's upsetting.

[02:01:45] It's really upsetting. Yeah. Because you do I mean it's such a long movie and you do get caught up. You are kind of like okay. But no you get caught up in the same kind of delusion that the people who know him are which is like he's eternal.

[02:01:56] Something magical. Somehow he's eternal. Yes. You know. Right. And yet it's like no no no he's got he's we found him sleeping under a fucking bridge or whatever it is like because he doesn't have anyone. He's left his life you know. Yeah.

[02:02:09] Which is also like how a lot of old people end up. Sure. Yes if they don't have someone to you know right help them. Look I mean I think we've all made a I'm glad we are all on the same page of vouching

[02:02:20] for this movie's right to respect. Right. Yeah. I still think inarguably it's in the bottom half of his filmography. I have it. Yeah. But he has a he has an exceptional filmography. He does.

[02:02:32] I think this movie gets a bad rap but I also like could never argue it's one of his five best films. No. I have a little below that. It's interesting. I mean it's more worthy than it has a reputation for being.

[02:02:43] And I think it's of a piece with his filmography rather than people seeing it as like that's the one weird time he tried to make someone else's kind of movie. It's as sentimental as he's going to get. It's a sentiment he's going to get.

[02:02:55] But I think Griffin is right that it's it's got way more of Fincher in him than you might think or that he gets credit for. And once again as sentimental as he can possibly get in the movie where the guy abandons his daughter without even leaving a note.

[02:03:07] Yeah but I don't like that part. That's my point though. That's in line with Fincher's world view. I guess it is. And he gets to do a pretty I think effective and creepy World War Two scene. Yeah it's a good scene.

[02:03:19] No that seems really action for people who've been dragged to. Right. It turns out that was U-571 and it's McConaughey on the other end. Jack Noseworthy is somewhere in there. You finish the book at the moment as your mother breathes her last breaths as they evacuate the hospital.

[02:03:36] And as you see the clock get drowned. It's just like all of this just fucking goes away. That's it. And then the clock metaphor. Yeah I mean it doesn't perfectly line up with Benjamin's situation but it yeah it's evocative. And then you get why it's during Katrina. Yes.

[02:03:55] Yeah. Good movie. I think it's a good movie. I do too. If you don't like it. I don't care. It's working well. It got 13 Oscar nominations. Two. Here comes the Orson mobile. It wins visual effects I assume. It wins art direction. No. Yes art direction.

[02:04:12] And then the third one would have been costumes. Makeup. Makeup. Oh of course. Lost costumes. I'm not sure to who. Let's find out. 2008. There's an obvious one. Lost costumes of course to the Duchess. Just a couple of final thoughts here.

[02:04:30] Did I mention I was struck by lightning seven times? Did that come up on this? Who's that guy? You should have meted it out. One reveal every 10 minutes of the podcast. If you're interested in the commentary. You know. A director notorious for doing multiple takes.

[02:04:44] In a movie like this. So technically precise with needing to line up head replacement whatever. I think that was even more of an extreme thing. And he would do so many takes of this guy. And they'd be like I think we have it.

[02:04:56] Don't you want to move on? He's like I just really like Washington Mac. He was like I do the takes because I just I thought this guy was so good on camera. Roy Sullivan is the actor. A lot of the especially. Oh no I'm sorry.

[02:05:08] Roy Sullivan is the real person that he's based on. Who was struck by lightning seven times. The character is called Mr. Dawes. In the movie. He's very recognizable to me. I just want to find. Who plays Mr. Dawes? This is where fucking AI should be doing this.

[02:05:24] AI should be doing this for you? No not Dick Van Dyke. Wait a second. What? Because that's the character in Mary Poppins as well. Mr. Dawes. Ted Manson. Okay. I don't. Didn't you recognize that guy? He's the grandfather in Talladega Nights. That's what I know him from.

[02:05:43] He's so funny in that. He's also of course. I'm going to come at you like a spider monkey. Sad Joe in Elizabethtown. Sure. Oh God. I'm out. I'm out. Technically every character in that movie has sad before their name. Yeah.

[02:05:55] He feels like one of those guys who just was biding his time till he turned 75. Suddenly Hollywood was like we need an old guy and it's you. A classic Patrick Crenshaw. Right. Yeah. That's who he is though. He's fucking Talladega Nights. He's Chip.

[02:06:09] Did you know that June Squibb and Mary Ellen Burke are both in Meet Joe Black? Is it Mary Beth Burke who plays the mom in whatever I'm rambling but like. Yeah. But June Squibb is in Meet Joe Black in as many lines as well. Yes.

[02:06:25] No she was around. Yeah. Yeah. Not sure who you mean though. It's not Mary Burke. We can think about it. Yes. This film was nominated for various Oscars. She plays the guy's mom in Sideways. Oh. So right. No. You're right. June Squibb is not the mom in Sideways.

[02:06:39] No. No. She's in the second actress who did very well in the role. Mary Louise Burke. Mary Louise Burke. There we go. Anyway. Okay. Quick. I just have a couple more. Please. Okay. I'm sorry. So we were talking about the logic of how this like could work. Sure.

[02:06:57] When he could he come out as a ghost initially then go on turn into a true future go some sort of funky phantom. She should be born as a funky fan. That's what I'm saying. And then like it's like Dr. Manhattan like you see a skeleton walking around.

[02:07:10] Yes. Muscle. That's what I'm saying. He could have been a little bone. Oh, he should recompose. You just want a bone man. This is just a roundabout way. A second. You're getting a bone man. You're getting a bone man. I'm not getting a bone man.

[02:07:21] Oh, you're getting a bone man. You're getting a bone man. You're getting a bone man. You're getting a bone man. You're getting a bone man. You're getting a bone man on screen. And then he starts getting hair and his nails and flesh. Yeah, no, no, it's muscle.

[02:07:33] It's a good pitch. It's a good pitch because then he could also come out as a full grown thing if he was a ghost. I like I know what you mean. But when you keep on phrasing it has come out, I keep thinking you're saying like announce

[02:07:45] his identity as mom, dad. I'm a little bone man. This film. Do you have further notes? Just last thing is, hey, listeners, look both ways when you're crossing the street. Don't twirl. Don't get beamed. Don't be beamed. Don't get blacked. Well, don't say that.

[02:08:07] Well, sorry, you can cut it out. I meant Joe Black. Keep it in. The weird thing about this movie is, yes, it didn't win Best Picture, even though it was a big movie, right? That's not surprising. Who did it like lose to? The Slumdog Buzzsaw.

[02:08:23] That's the weirdest thing about Slumdog is you're like the most unexpected where it's like, well, what were you supposed to do? Slumdog had it. And I think this would have won had Slumdog not. Yeah, possibly because it's a very weak year.

[02:08:37] Obviously, it's the year that they don't nominate The Dark Knight and WALL-E. Like that's their scene is missing out on it to a lesser extent. Right. Yeah. Is missing out on these popular films. And yes, like I do think of Button, Frostnicks and the Reader in Milk.

[02:08:51] Button probably is the front runner. I think Milk is maybe the better liked movie and actually wins two big Oscars. But somehow never had that heat behind it, even though I think it's a biopic. But it's like, it was gay. Yeah. What? It's so good.

[02:09:05] Did you know that? Did you not pick that up? Is he gay? Milk? I thought he was made of milk. No, Josh Brolin's gay. Yes. No, you know, because he's gay. There's definitely one actor in screenplay. Yeah. Milk.

[02:09:16] A little bit of controversy around screenplay win, but we can talk about that off air. He's still working today. Oh, yeah. I'm seeing here he wrote a movie this year. He wrote Rustin, right? Rustin Lance Black? I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about.

[02:09:32] I'm just saying, imagine if as a director you went from August Wilson to Dustin Lance Black as your screenwriter, how that would go. And, uh, but it is, yeah, it's just funny. It's like, yeah, well, what were you supposed to do though? The Slumdog Millionaire training. Yeah.

[02:09:48] There's no... Chuck go all the way through. Right. And that was apparent at what point in this? I know you guys probably talked about this during... In like the Oscar race. I don't even know. I think from... Like how far do they see it coming?

[02:09:59] My perception of memory is that like from the moment Slumdog plays a TIFF, it is the front runner. Right. Button screens late, doesn't come out until Christmas. And I think from the time... Button's like the one waiting to be the last movie the critics see.

[02:10:15] The last hope to knock it off. They were like, well, if this thing's undeniable, it pushes Slumdog off the mantle. And I think the reaction was very well done. But a lot of critics were like, eh, this is a sap fest.

[02:10:28] It got dismissed by a lot of critics and then it gets put into the... Yeah, it'll win some technical Oscars. What I find so fascinating is it's a sap fest and also it didn't make me cry enough. Like I feel like it was getting hit from both sides.

[02:10:40] Yeah, that's true. Right. Yeah. But Fincher the Iceman is still behind the camera. I'm going to feel and he won't give me the release. Yeah, sure. Because it's a little too in its head. In an interesting way. But it's a big hit. It is a big hit.

[02:10:56] It made 127 domestic, 329 worldwide. It's a good hit. It's a good hit. But it's not a... You know. Much bigger overseas. Bigger overseas. But you know what I mean? Like it's not quite the phenomenon you maybe want it to be. No, it's not making a Slumdog number.

[02:11:11] It's like Micho Black. Like it made... I probably broke even maybe. It was an expensive movie. Right. Yeah. I mean, this did much better than Micho Black domestically. Yeah. But yeah, so it's... The thing is like Forrest Gump is that weird on paper.

[02:11:26] This does not seem commercial and yet it was a fucking triple crown winner. And they would just keep on going like every once in a while you have to pick an odd piece of material, stack it full atop to your talent.

[02:11:39] And maybe this thing just hits the zeitgeist just right. There better be a southern accent. Yes. You know. It did better domestically than the film it opened against on Christmas 2008. You were starting to talk about this right before we started recording about now basically

[02:11:54] Christmas you get a classic standard blockbuster, maybe one kids movie counterprogramming. One Oscar-y movie probably. It used to be like six big studio films. Six fucking things that have nothing to do with each other. Just fed into the bloodbath. And often five of them will succeed.

[02:12:07] Like the biggest weekend. It's a fertile time. Yes. Jennifer Aniston's opening number three out of four new openings on the top five. The one that I believe won the bloodbath surprisingly embarrassingly for Brad was Jennifer Aniston's Marley and Me. Correct. Marley had the killer instinct. Marley?

[02:12:29] Also about death. Also about death. Also about death. Marley and Me makes 36 domestic and... It's an ordinary donut. Have you made this donut? Makes 36 opening weekend, 143 domestic. It doesn't do as well worldwide. Worldwide people didn't care about Marley. But America loved Marley. America liked Marley. Loved Marley.

[02:12:49] Loved Marley. We love Marley. I have to make this donut. So Marley and Me is number one. I'm seven but I look a lot older. He's seven and don't look younger. He could be buttoned. He could have buttoned. He could have buttoned. Owen? Yeah.

[02:13:05] Hey, hey, you want a button? Number two at the box office is not The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. No, it is a family comedy with a big star. Is it an opener or is it a...

[02:13:15] Opening this week to 27 mil on its way to a domestic take of 110. I feel like this is the one that people thought was going to be number one and Marley and Me was kind of the surprise. I mean this movie stars a big comedy star. In 2008.

[02:13:30] But I would say it's regarded as one of his lesser... It's not Gulliver's Travels, is it? No. But is it... Am I kind of in the right ballpark? Sort of. It's not a feral. No. It's not a stiller. No. It's a big comedy star.

[02:13:44] It's not a Carrie or is it? No. Fuck. Okay. Who are the other comedy A-listers of this moment? And Owen Wilson's already there. Is it not a Vince Vaughn? No, who's bigger than him? Big comedy star of the 2000s. Sandler. Adam Sandler. Bedtime Stories. Bedtime Stories.

[02:14:04] Which is not good. His one dalliance with Disney I feel like. And this is only Disney. Benjamin Button also sort of a bedtime story. Yeah. It is. Parallels everywhere. Yeah. Never seen Bedtime Stories. Not good. Is that with Kerry Russell or is that Click? That's Kerry Russell.

[02:14:18] Oh, it is. Click is who? Theresa Palmer. Guy Pearce is the villain. Click is Beck and Sale. Back and Sale. Back and Sale. Yeah. I think I've now seen all the Sandler vehicles. I think I finally filled in all my final gaps.

[02:14:31] But this one I saw in theaters. And didn't like. No. Not good. Number three Benjamin Button. Number four is another new opener. I think a film that one time had Oscar hopes. But didn't really pan out. Kind of a flop by the standards of this star.

[02:14:49] And director who's had some stories in the news. Recently? You know, the last few years. It's not a Gibson. No. Worse. Worse. Is it Valkyrie? It's like James Woodson. Bryan Singer's Valkyrie. Benjamin Button also killed some Nazis. He did.

[02:15:12] Whereas Tom Cruise tried his fucking best but blew it. Weirdly the movie that then like sets up Tom Cruise's redemption arc by finally teaming him up with McCrory. And then they build a relationship that rebuilds him. That is true.

[02:15:27] That is one of those movies where I was so hyped at the time because I was sort of like Superman Returns underrated. Tom Cruise doing a prestige movie. Love that. And it is a weirdly flat movie. It is.

[02:15:40] There's the one thing in that movie I think is really impressive that I think about a lot. That they wanted to kill Hitler? Which I think is good. I think that actually stands up well. What's impressive?

[02:15:51] I mean, I was also just pumped because it's like Bill Nye, Kenneth Branagh, Tom Wilkinson. You know, they've got all these guys. But they're doing B-Y-O-A. Bring your own accent. They're also doing like N-A-R. No acting required. Yes.

[02:16:05] I just sit here in this uniform and read the lines. It'll be fine, right? You know. Yes. I was listening to the Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning, spoiler, special podcast that Empire put out, which are really good. And they're a quick 18 hours across six episodes.

[02:16:17] Yeah, that's why I haven't gotten to it yet. But he was saying he gave Cruise full credit for this, that in his script it was like they make the assassination attempt. The bomb goes off. Hitler survives it.

[02:16:29] You immediately cut to Hitler and it's like, they tried to assassinate me. And Cruise said, don't cut back to Hitler. And he's like, what are you talking about? And he's like, live in it where they think they've succeeded and stay in the tension of that for 30 or 40 minutes.

[02:16:42] And of course, like that won't work. People know Hitler didn't die. And Cruise was like, the audience won't care. And I remember sitting there in the theater in the 30 minutes where they're proceeding as if they've succeeded and feeling genuine tension, even though I knew where it was going

[02:16:56] and how it ended. And it is this kind of like power of movies thing where there's this chunk of the movie where you're just like, yeah. Not a good movie. Number five. That opened on Christmas? I don't know what anyone was thinking. What on earth?

[02:17:12] It's an insane decision. That was only 15 years ago. And that's like talking about a different planet. It's just literally like people in theaters, like Tom Cruise in an American accent in a Nazi uniform saying like Hitler is seen as last sunrise and people are like, we could

[02:17:24] see that at Christmas. Not only that. Hey, babe, do you want to see Bedtime Stories or the movie where Tom Cruise plays a Nazi? Not only that. Both are opening on Christmas. With an eye patch. Yeah, with an eye patch.

[02:17:35] Not only that, but that's Cruise being like, I need to convince audiences that I'm normal. People think I'm crazy now. No, let's actually, you know what? Let's compromise. We'll see the movie where Brad Pitt plays Slingblade as a wizened old baby. That's the truth.

[02:17:50] The family had to agree on Button is the most normal. It's like, I don't want to watch a dog die. That's what my family would have done. Let's go to... And I saw this film with my girlfriend at the time and her parents.

[02:18:02] And it was truly a, like, gotta do something on Christmas, you know, at the AMC Lincoln Square. I remember very clearly. Number five at the box office is a Jim Carrey comedy falling to number five from number one the week before. It is Yes Man. Yes Man.

[02:18:20] Jim Carrey's basically last swing at just like doing a Jim Carrey comedy. Miss Proper's Penguins, but then... That doesn't count. Yeah, then yes, you're right. Right? Because that's a kid's movie. Yeah. That's a high concept movie. That's just too liar, liar, but different. Yeah.

[02:18:34] This was, you know, it's been litigated many times what caused the death of the studio comedy over the course of like 15 years. A thing I bring my hands about to no end. But this Yes Man was an interesting case study where they were like, these movies are getting

[02:18:49] too expensive. They don't do as well overseas. The stars cost too much money and you price yourself out of good scripts. And Carrey was like, I'll take no upfront salary, only back end. That's a way to keep the budget down. I'm betting on myself.

[02:19:02] And people pointed as like, this is a model going forward. And basically no one tried that ever again. Yeah. Well, you know, and that's for a mediocre movie. And he still made money. Yeah.

[02:19:13] He made more than the 20 he would have made upfront had he stuck to his quote. Right. Right. Number six of the box office is seven pounds. Do not touch the jellyfish. Normal. Like Diana Night. This is the thing. People are like, where did Diana Night?

[02:19:29] Where did Marvel come from? I'm like, Hollywood was a little bit out of ideas. Yeah. But also, they were rummaging in the junk drawer. Be like, well, this works. Is this a movie? Yeah. Yeah. Jellyfish.

[02:19:42] What is fascinating, though, is you look at this 10 and a lot of people are a little bit off their game, but it's like stars. Right. It's like Owen Wilson, Jennifer Aniston, Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett, Will Smith, Tom Cruz, Adam Sandler, Jim Carrey, Jim Carrey. Jellyfish. All A-listers.

[02:19:57] Jellyfish. Desperado. Oh, and his tail. And his tail. And his tail. Number seven of the box office. Number eight, Keanu Reeves. And the day the earth should still. A big star. Big star. Not a big hit.

[02:20:11] That's his last hit before he goes into another fallow period to be saved from what? A multiplex now where all of those people are in movies that you could go see. No. At once. And not one of those films is a sequel. Uh, no. There's a remake.

[02:20:28] Their book adaptation. No, I mean, seven pounds. Well, Benjamin Button's a sequel to Clifford. But other than that, yes. Yes, no, it is wild to think about. And you know what? We're going to keep it going because number nine is not a sequel.

[02:20:37] It's the spirit, which is sort of, which is a huge flop. Oh, humongous flop. Disaster. Opening this weekend. Again, Christmas. Yeah. Christmas for this? That's also a moment where people are like, maybe superhero movies are finally dead. Right. That's a good point. But, you know, obviously.

[02:20:50] We did it. It's sort of a sequel to Sin City. Yes. Like it's been presented that way, but you know. And then ten is Doubt. Yeah. Which is, I don't think a sequel. David, look at all the ways I'm affecting his phone. No, I've seen yesterday's actually.

[02:21:04] We have to send a family photo to daycare, okay? Just being reminded. You have to send one? They want one. Is the family there? They're doing some kind of family photo thing. I don't know. Your daughter's photo at school is very funny.

[02:21:16] Um, she's really into, for whatever reason, closing one eye when she smiles. So it looks like she's like a Shirley Temple, like, you know. She should never have shown her Valburin. Can I say it, David? Daddy, I want one eye. She's giving a little stinker.

[02:21:34] Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, she can be a little stinker sometimes. It's very cute when she's a little stinker. The other fascinating thing, Richard, you saying this feels like a million years ago. This is the thing I feel like people are talking about a lot now.

[02:21:45] I had to go to number 17 to find a sequel and it's Quantum of Solace. Wow. The first true sequel is Madagascar Escape to Africa. Which had been out for like six weeks. And also James Bond doesn't really count. Which had also been out for like six weeks.

[02:21:58] Yeah, eight in fact. Geez, undershot it. Not only is it like, can you imagine going to a multiplex and all those stars having new movies out and wide release? But also that list is still largely our biggest stars.

[02:22:12] Like some people have waxed and waned a little bit or they've shifted or whatever. It's a lot of our favorite stars. You're right. Yeah, it's this thing that people talk about where it's like there was whatever survey that came out of America's top movie star.

[02:22:25] Not the Q score, but there was one of those sort of showcom things or whatever. And it was like the top 20 living movie stars. And the only guy who cracked it who was under 40 was Chris Hemsworth. Was the only guy who was not already a movie star by 1999.

[02:22:39] I hear you. But I think we have great new stars. I love them. It just feels like we're not letting them elevate. Because Hitman is going to Netflix. That's the fucking problem. We're not giving them... I understand why you say things off mic about that.

[02:22:54] But Glenn Powell's not young. He's no spring chicken. He's 34. But he's aging in reverse. He's not aging in reverse, he's just not aging. How do I know how old Glenn Powell is? You don't think I look that up every two days? Every minute of every day.

[02:23:10] Come on, give me some credit. Yeah, no, I mean, you know, we have our young stars. I love our young stars. I love Trump, though. We love our young stars. We've got Zendaya. You're going to love her. Glenn Powell is the future.

[02:23:26] Doesn't get to carry a movie at the box office. Hangman, they called him. He's supporting. If he's the lead, it goes to streamers. They call him Zank, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know. I like that we're all of us are Trump sounds like a Borscht Belt comment.

[02:23:41] Yeah, I don't know how to do Trump. I wish I could do it better. It's like a lot of money, I says. Anatomy of a fall was he pushed? It's like a now doing like the whole festival season. That zone. There's a lot of interest in that zone.

[02:23:58] Very bad things happening in that zone. Somewhere between Trump and Zoidberg. He has three daughters. What can I say? Oh, boy. So that's enough on Benjamin Button. That's enough on Benjamin Button, says David Sam. I think it's the truth. The truth that I say that. Newborn babies.

[02:24:20] I think it's time to wrap up. Yeah, merchandise. But there's nothing. Well, I know the criterion thing is kind of interesting. I have the criterion, which is a fake criterion. Essentially.

[02:24:32] Well, there would be think because criterion, you know, part of their thing is like they're they're curating art. What do they allow in? Right. And there are people like Wes Anderson who have a pre-existing deal.

[02:24:40] His early films touchstone Disney would be like, yeah, we'll let criterion release it. And having a bigger, more commercial film would help finance the restorations of smaller, foreign, older films, whatever.

[02:24:51] Now he puts in his contract whenever he makes a new movie after four or five years, the rights revert to criterion. It goes to them. What have you? Right. Fincher basically Paramount like prep the Blu-ray, did all the special features.

[02:25:04] And then he was like, I would like for this to be a criterion movie. And Paramount basically paid to license criterion as branding. Yep. And they like threw the sea on it, but they physically made the thing.

[02:25:17] It's basically their Blu-ray in a criterion like sleeve is all it really is. But even the sleeve, it's like this isn't what the criterion art would look like. They took the poster, they put the criteria.

[02:25:26] It's like the one time people bought the honorific and Fincher has like legit I mean game. I guess this is only other criterion movie. Yeah, I think that's right. Well, while we're waiting on Mink. No, Mink. Is there a Mink disc? No, it was a false report.

[02:25:42] The whole problem with him is it's not people are like, why won't anyone make this a Blu-ray? There you go. A blank blank. Why won't people make this? It's like because Fincher has to sign off on it and he's going to take forever to sign off on it.

[02:25:57] That's what's been holding up the 7 4k. 100%. You need to inspect every single fucking pixel of the thing. But yeah, no, Benjamin Button is the one where it's like, no, that was by all intents and purposes for all intents and purposes.

[02:26:09] A paramount Blu-ray that just had this little criterion C on it. It's interesting. It is. Certain forums on the Internet people are still they're still mad about it. That fake C, that crooked C. You hit it. Very end. Oh my. Okay. It's time to end the episode.

[02:26:31] Time to end the episode. I can't believe we have to record Meet Joe Black right after this. You have to watch Meet Joe Black right after this. So we'll be done at midnight.

[02:26:39] We're going to have the Fincher records paired as a back to back with a breast record. Then we're going to sit on the breast for four years. I mean, I know you guys have this has been said so many times and you guys have talked about yourselves.

[02:26:50] Martin Breast is a perfect season. No, will do. It's a fascinating season. And if we don't do them, it's to piss you off. You who's listening, who cares about us. And not the royal you, not all of you.

[02:27:02] The one person right now where you're thinking, is it me specifically? Yes, it's you. I'll say that we did. We did the other day, we finally locked in an early 24 miniseries. That's one of the people we've been talking about forever.

[02:27:12] Who's always just been a like, well, we'll do them at some point. We'll do them at some point. We just finally went, let's just do it. We've gotten to a certain point, not that the show has an end in sight, but we've been doing this for eight years.

[02:27:22] Some of those people on the inevitable list were like starting to pull them off and be like, let's just fucking do it. It's time, you know, we're all going to die someday. Yeah, and hopefully we'll die as little wrinkleless babies. Or giant ones in my case. Yeah.

[02:27:38] Richard, thank you for being here as always. Thank you for having me. This was very fun. 13? Is this lucky number 13? Oh, maybe, I don't know, maybe with the bonus episode. Oh, fuck. All right, here we go.

[02:27:50] David, look it up as we're wrapping up. Anything you want to plug, Richard? Little Gold Men, my podcast at VF and my writing at vf.com. If you are in the mood for a five-year-old YA novel, you could read all you can do.

[02:27:59] All We Can Do is Wait. It's called All We Can Do Is Wait, written by me. Yeah. It's your 12th. Lady, Vanilla, Ryan, Widowmaker, Spanglish, Home, Big Eyes. Big Guys. Philly, Witches, Dog, Sparadikus. And then Trolls Makes 13. Trolls Makes 13. And then Trolls Make 13.

[02:28:32] Your trolls are coming back to theaters this fall. They're banding together. Well, my trolls and I have had a falling out, unfortunately, because they are upset about my labor practices and residuals. So they're striking with their little signs, little bastards. But we'll see. Branch.

[02:28:53] The trolls united will never be defeated. They should be happy with what they're getting. Well, well, well. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media and helping to produce the show.

[02:29:08] Lane Montgomery and The Great American Novel for our theme song. Joe Bowen and Pat Rounds for our artwork. JJ Birch for our research. AJ McKee and Alex Barron for our editing.

[02:29:20] You can go to BlankCheckPod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, where we do commentaries on film series and other stuff. We're doing the Pierce Brosnan Bonds right about now. Right?

[02:29:36] And we'll finish our music video episode, some fun stuff over there. We also unlock every 10 days an old episode from three years ago for free if you want to sign up for that. That episode is Aliens. Well, look at that timing. A dollar sign.

[02:29:54] Coming up soon will be the previous Alien 3 episode. Yes. No, that's not the moment where Ben falls asleep. That's Resurrection. But something to look forward to. Yep. Tune in next week for The Social Network, a movie that made some cultural impact. Yeah, bit of a big movie.

[02:30:13] Kind of an anti-Benjamin Button. Yeah. And it's a movie that people will never stop talking about, it feels like. Ever. They should just make a sequel because so much has changed. Yeah. Tune in for that. And as always, this episode, how long was it, Ben? Not that long.

[02:30:30] Shorter than the movie. Two hours and 38 minutes. But it feels a lot longer. I forgot that was coming.