The Elephant Man with Alex Ross Perry

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that insensitive?

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Huh.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It had to be done.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It had to be done, of course.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it had to be done.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the famous line from The Elephant Man.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_05]: The film we're talking about today.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think it's insensitive.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's insensitive.

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_05]: But is like, you know, he's the elephant.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_05]: His name is The Elephant Man.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_05]: The movie's called The Elephant Man.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Correct.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_05]: That's insensitive.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_05]: That is.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And yet also it's sort of like, yes.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_05]: But of course that's how we discuss this person and his legacy.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: If you found what I just did insensitive, I suggest you hold a mirror up to your own face.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Coming right up.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_05]: People who might find that insensitive.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Also maybe throw your complaints at Lieutenant Frank Drebben first who made that joke 35 years ago.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: It is funny that this film was mainstream enough that the naked gun parodied it.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And the critic or the Simpsons who had the L, I mean it's the kind of thing they,

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: was it on the critic?

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: There was like a very notable Elephant Man cartoon.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_02]: A gag in my life.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_05]: The critic, yeah.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm seeing if, well actually right that's not helpful to just type Elephant Man the critic.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_05]: That just loads like rotten tomatoes.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_05]: The problem with it, they didn't think about that when they made the critic bad SEO.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Add the words Jay Sherman.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Jay Sherman.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I just feel like one of those shows had an elephant man.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't think there's a Simpsons one.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It stinks.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It stinks.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Daryl Strawberry of course gets Elephant Man disease from drinking the juice.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Right?

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the critic parodying Elephant Man.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Pretty good Anthony Hopkins.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Like you know, like they do a good job drawing them right.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's Jay Sherman and he's like standing and they're all like poking at him.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_05]: But he just looks like Jay Sherman.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't look like it was that funny.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_05]: No offense to Jay Sherman and the critic which is obviously often funny.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's not making like the highlight real.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_04]: So what's something you would say something like wasn't that good?

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_04]: David, what would you say?

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_05]: It stinks.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Is Daryl Strawberry the one who gets the elephantitis?

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: He gets the kangaroo.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_05]: No it's Kangaroo who gets the engorged head.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_05]: From drinking the tonic.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_05]: The tonic.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Wait so what happens to Daryl Strawberry?

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Now I'm trying to remember.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: His Wiki, his Simpsons Wiki is very thin.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you better than me?

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I've never met you but yes.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean obviously a very funny line.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to see if either of you can recall this because I'd say.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But then he gets sent to work somewhere.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I want to go through some of the ones I do remember.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Then he gets sent to work somewhere.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Dom Addingly, he burns keeps telling him to like shave that beard or whatever it is.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And he keeps like shaving all of his body hair.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a cybert.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's never satisfied.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Great gag.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Great gag.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I think Ozzy Smith ends up in like a sort of vortex.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Like he goes to like.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I meant.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Like some like tourist attraction.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe that's like a spinning vortex.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Like floating in space.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_05]: What else?

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I think is it Steve Saxley gets punched by Barney over which British Prime Minister is better Lord Palmerston or Pithy Elder?

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_05]: It sounds right.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_05]: But also the kind of thing you would remember.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_05]: No, apparently that's Wade Boggs.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Fair enough.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Fair enough.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think I remember anyone else.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously there are many more fates.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of players.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So the twist is that Daryl Strauber is both the one who goes to work and just starts gigging at the power plant.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_05]: He likes the power plant.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But also nothing bad happens to him.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: He just takes to the power plant doesn't want to play baseball.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: He's the only one who doesn't have an unfortunate fate.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Steve Sax is pulled over by Eddie and Lou.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And a accused of murder faces six consecutive life sentences.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_05]: They like sweat them in the interrogation room.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Mike Skosie.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Socia.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Mike Skosie has radiation poisoning.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Ken Griffey gets gigantism from the tonic.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Jose Canseco gets caught saving things out of the house fire.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: He keeps having to go back in.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Wade Boggs punched by Barney over the prime minister argument.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Ozzie Smith stuck in the Springfield mystery spot the void.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Roger Clemens thinks he's a chicken because of the hypnotist.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And Don Mattingly goes down the rabbit hole of shaving himself.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: The shaving himself.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Such a funny episode.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_02]: A really just an appalling tangent to have already.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me see what the clock says here.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Four minutes.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Alex, do you think this is one of the 10 best films I've ever made?

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And here we are running down the list of the Burns isotopes fates.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That is appropriate for, I wouldn't say for this episode,

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but for an episode you are on.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It is allowed.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: We have talked about it.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You do 50% of your communication is done through Simpsons references.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that fair to say?

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Good number.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_01]: A gentleman's 50.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Unrecognized sometimes or unlawed it.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you're looking for a round of applause in the group text that you do not get.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that, is that fair to say?

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Only when I'm very quick on the draw with a very bizarre reference.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It is, the speed is always impressive.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I aim for.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very low energy today because I've been sick and I'm very nervous about.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I was also sick all last week.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You ever feel about this episode?

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just don't really have the fire in me right now.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And yesterday when I was describing my sickness to David, he said,

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: it sounds like what Griffin's had.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, I feel like I currently feel how I think Griffin always feels.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: That's probably true.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You've got a case of the griff.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I do think, and my stomach's been hurting and I haven't eaten for like five days.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a classic case of the griffs.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_05]: One of those things where it's like, what is it?

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, I don't know man.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of breaches of the wall here.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just not working.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not just like I have a gold, right?

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just straight up not working.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the best I've felt in five days, but I still don't have a lot of juice.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: The way you feel right now is probably my high watermark.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the best I ever feel.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, as my buddy said, as a kid not much older, he's like, our max is 60%.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Once you get to that point, like you don't have anything above that anymore.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_05]: But maybe that's a good way to talk about the elephant man, about like struggle and

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_05]: no, I don't know.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, whose max was pretty low?

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a really tough time.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Now a great tragedy of his life, a low max.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Word this episode is going to be kind of insensitive to the elephant man.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I do feel John Merrick.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: We have a cold one and I'm like, it's kind of like being the elephant man.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_05]: John Merrick.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_05]: John Merrick, yes.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Joseph Merrick just FYI, but you know, you say is they wrong if you want.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you ever had a movie with a disabled protagonist, a handicap

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_02]: protagonist, any movies that you have to not dance around but address?

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: No, maybe not.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't go constantly.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You can count.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the most sensitive films ever made.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like culture kind of made it, culture was what's the way to describe that.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Like culture just kind of made clowning on the mentally disabled totally acceptable

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: because of how popular that movie was.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but also it's because it's like creating this sort of like magical

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: condition that is so sort of like both nebulous and all-encompassing

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: that you're like, what are you actually making fun of here?

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It felt like there was this collective cultural mulligan of like, what's Gump?

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: He's just weird.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You guys ever think about stuff going on with that?

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_02]: What it would have been like if Gump had encountered Merrick?

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think about it all the time.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_02]: He probably would have inspired him in some way or at least inspired the

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: carnies to give up their cruel pursuits.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: What would Gump have taught Merrick to do?

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, like it's like to move on.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we're talking about the worst part.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_05]: It's awful.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, to be clear, he's not weird.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_03]: He's intellectually disabled in the film and the film is clear about that.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I will say it's not like a doctor ever says that, but that's what's going on with

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_03]: the carnies.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: They make it kind of magical.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: That movie is a nightmare.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to talk about it.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_05]: It's so bad.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, and the way it treats that is, is not great.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Listen, listen.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the only other challenge.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm looking at our episode list.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, of course the judge.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_05]: That's another one.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_05]: One of the most expensive.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the exact same thing.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_05]: There's something up with him.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, oh well, you know.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like magically, narratively convenient.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's whatever it needs to be in any given scene.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I think there's a lot of movies we've covered with this and we're just

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_05]: sort of blanking it out because it always is like, you know, want to remember

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_05]: that.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, now like, I mean, I guess we'll talk about the elephant man.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, excuse me, Michael Moore and Lucky Numbers.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_05]: That's another one.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Look, there's the, there's the fulcrum point.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: The first half of your career on blank check was defined by picking

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: the least essential movie of every director.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And early on you sort of called your shot of what your game was and you

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: said like, if you guys ever do McTiernan and I'm doing basic.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_05]: We talked about split obviously that was a very like contentious heated

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_05]: discussion of like how much should we be like using disassociative

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_05]: identity disorder to be like a crazy supervillain who has, you know,

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_05]: multiple personalities and is like, I'm a baby.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a lady, which is what's going on in split.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Correct.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Now in split, I think that is over the top.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_05]: An interesting, it's silly.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wish they pushed it like 10% further.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Me going, hello, I'm a lady is basically what's happening in split.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I just like thinking about that.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what misses doubtfire.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know what you're holding right now.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_02]: This movie is, it is not, not a classic like, oh, I forget he directed that.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is what's interesting, right?

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So like that was the first half of your career to the extent that when we

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: did McTiernan and finally recently, as you mentioned, this is

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Blank Check with Griffin and David.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Griffin.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm David.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a mini series on the films of David Lynch is called

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Twin Pods Firecast with me.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Today we're talking about his second theatrical film.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: God, this is only our second episode.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, now we got to lock in to the elephant man.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Serious work.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_05]: The Elephant Man.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Book of Henry.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_05]: His guarantor.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Does that have any depictions of?

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Like that's not its issue.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_05]: It has other issues.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess Henry has, he's sort of like super smarter or something.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's got smartest boy disorder.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_05]: You don't want to talk about old Henry?

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_05]: You want to talk about Henry?

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_02]: People do need to start gamifying like the episode Bingo Cards

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's like I had Book of Henry coming up 10 minutes into

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: the Elephant Man episode.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So I get that on my Bingo card.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, I actually, I was a 400 to one and I laid 100 bucks

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_05]: on that.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm rich as hell.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like that's the next blank check game.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Look we all saw, is Trevor making another movie?

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's making a cummerbatch.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Should we call this now at the time of our recording that we

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: think by the time the episode comes out, Travarro is directing

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Blade?

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think he's doing some, he's doing a magician spy

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: espionage movie with Ben into cummerbatch.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_05]: That does ring a bell.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: David if you don't want to go on the tangents, you need

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_02]: to stop bringing up nothing but tangents.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, David.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I like the tangents and I support them.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll come back to Travarro.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, we'll come back to Travarro putting a pen.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it Travarro or Travarro?

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It's Travarro.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Like tomorrow that's how we introduce ourselves.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: That's how, right.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Travarro.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry Colin.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_01]: We were wrong the first couple of years of the show and

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: then we're all,

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Many are wrong.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: When we released our episode here today gone Travarro.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You feel like you really need this guy.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But for the first time we also showed him the respect

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: of getting his name right.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: There was a trade off there.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, the point is at some point you're going to

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_01]: get your game shifts.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And the last four times you've been on the show,

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: this episode included,

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: you have picked one of like the core movies of your life.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: The run of Halloween,

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Clockwork Orange, Fight Club, Elephant Man.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I know I don't want to keep doing that but I guess

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_02]: you're finally getting around to the titans.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: The cannon.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Right and this is,

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: this was one of your sight and sound 10.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I, so.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_05]: You don't have to sound so despondent about it.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's just my energy level today.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: By default, I assume this is your favorite Lynch movie.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_01]: It is.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is mine as well and I cannot help but feel like

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: is that a basic asshole opinion?

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Asshole opinion.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It does feel like this is weirdly kind of his forgotten

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: movie now for how beloved it was at the time

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and how much it kind of makes his career.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Straight story in this are clear,

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_02]: the clear winners and six years ago I would have picked

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: that just as a bit.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But straight story now feels like it has overtaken this as,

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01]: oh it's weird that's his normal movie.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Where like straight story I think almost gets more

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: recognition as part of the Lynch ove than this does

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: where this is almost seen as aberration and I think

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: this movie is such a fascinating like perfect match

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: of material and person to meet in the middle.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that way as well.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I doubted that what you just said about straight

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: story is actually true.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Are we just like two fucking letterbox poison?

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I just think people enjoy saying like did you know

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that David Lynch made a movie for Disney.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_02]: In the fabled year of cinema 1999.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He did.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_05]: One of the best films in 1999.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And even though it was a nominated film.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well it was a movie.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_02]: By no means a well remembered film,

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: the recollection which was just obliterated by him

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: making Mahalan Drive two years later.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It is his least seen film on letterboxed I will say.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Interesting.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is I use letterboxed only as a I find it to be

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_05]: a good gauge of like young people today.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_05]: The youth today.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: What is the ranking of scene?

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Like it's like if you sort by popularity, right.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Like his filmography.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Mahalan Drive is number one blue velvet number two

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_05]: eraser head is number three elephant man.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Just people who have logged it.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Elephant man is number four.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_05]: The reason for that I think is this is still

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_05]: a well liked movie.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's such an iconic story beyond.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a forgotten film.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Do people yes instantly recall that it's one of lynches

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_05]: like sort of most successful in terms of like critics

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_05]: awards money.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Most transformative movie in his career.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Movie is ahead maybe not so much anymore

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_02]: of the young people have lost highway.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Where I'll did heart and fire walk with me.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Correct.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: That is wild.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It is a little surprising.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Wild at heart.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It is on Disney plus now.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I was about to say it's also an easier movie to see.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't wild.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Impossible was never on blue has still never been on blue.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You're right.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Wild at heart is like wild.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not streaming at all.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like blue velvet is also not rentable now.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I watched it on MGM plus itunes but I noticed

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: recently it was less available than it had.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Wild at heart there's clearly something up with that.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Setting up one of the most important things about Lynch

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: which we will, we can just get into it now while we're on the

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: subject but I'm curious what the rest of the list.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just curious what order these movies rank in the sort of

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: cultural I've seen.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you want me to keep going?

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean this whole movie like five more.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm driving blue velvet, racing hydroelphamen, lost highway

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_05]: is fifth, fire walk with me is sixth, dune is seventh,

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_05]: wild at heart is eighth, inland empire is ninth,

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_05]: straight story is tenth.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Wild.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, great stories.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And dune probably.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_05]: And like the twin peaks pilot is on letter by,

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_05]: you know that's in between like dune and wild at heart.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You can imagine dune also just like bumped up a spot

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: or two in the last two or three years.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Probably, yeah.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: With the youngins watching after?

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no I look a lot of this stuff though it's like,

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_05]: you know I mean lost highway that probably bumped up

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_05]: because Balthasargetti had a moat.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm joking.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Well that had widely restored re-release.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the chrysian re-release helpers with something like that.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it played for six months in theaters last year.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: His movies do, that chunk of them are kind of constantly

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: in rep screening rotation.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I'm surprised this is higher than the ones

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: that I feel probably screen monthly in New York.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I didn't feel like this movie screens much.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: It screens often enough that I've probably seen it

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: in the theater three or four times.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_05]: The only reason we should be talking about this,

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_05]: which we are, is like I do think it's, yes,

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_05]: obviously the Elephant Man's legacy is secure

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_05]: as you say right?

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Like there's no forgetting this movie.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Seen as an unqualified triumph when it came out.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_05]: But I do think it is interesting.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, I mean we talk about this in the Blue Velvet episode,

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_05]: which is coming up of like what is the definitive,

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_05]: is Blue Velvet still the definitive Lynch movie?

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Or DeBohan Drive kind of replacent?

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You've brought up one of them.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I put this challenge to you guys.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is a super question and doesn't need an answer.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess they have by the way is Alex Frost Perry.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm back.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: He's back.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe number 10?

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Is this 10?

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: In the neighborhood.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Taking Woodstock, the key.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I can look it up.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't remember all of them, but what's the number?

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Insomnia.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Well you guys, yeah.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Insomnia, hollow man.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Hollow man.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Taking Woodstock to keep lucky numbers.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_05]: That's five.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Halloween clock or orange fight club.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_05]: So this is nine.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not including you've showed up.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Patreon episodes.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but for main.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll get there.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: What was I going to say?

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I asked you guys this years ago and it's more urgent now than ever for two reasons.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I said the thought exercise, I've always had this.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_02]: David is he the only and he's not, but I have two others.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_02]: The only filmmaker that you can credibly say you could make an argument that is not

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_02]: laughable.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: That his later period is maybe his best period beyond his most important period because

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: any filmmaker you can think of.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We talk about this a lot.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_05]: The later years are usually at the client.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: The later years are at the client.

[00:18:17] So I think that's a good argument.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: The Mahalan drive to impeach the return period is the most essential period of

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: his work.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I think you could very easily.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Discounting people who die tragically young or sub-army.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying that that is a correct argument, but I'm saying that in many

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: cases to make an argument like that would be ludicrous.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, I think you would be, you know, making a contrarian point for

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_02]: the sake of trying to say, well, yeah, Jaws, rare as the lost arc ET that run

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: is good.

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But I really think like the post 9 11 Spielberg run is the it's like,

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_02]: okay, the case can be made that he made six masterpieces.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not his best period.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But also at this point, that's his like mid career.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It would be like all doing the post.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't matter what it is.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: My whole argument is like there's so few filmmakers where someone could

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: say no, like a racer head blue velvet.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That is like clearly his peak.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of times it's the early part of someone's career.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It wouldn't if someone said, I have to say, Mahalan drive,

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_02]: trying to return.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: That's his peak.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: No one would go.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: That is an insane argument.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Only that, but it's like those two things you're talking about and

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: including in land empire, which is perhaps a little less love,

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: but I think fits into this.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the guy is still evolving.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Like those three projects are seen by people as like the guy is

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_01]: unlocking new things.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: The other director I always put in that category.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Who was also up for a turn of the Jedi is Cronenberg.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The only other person I ever felt you could convincingly say like,

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't love scanners and video drone.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_05]: The back half of his career, like spider onwards.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Someone could easily say like those early movies just are

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_02]: simply not the hype for me.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_02]: That later sort of acclaim Eastern promises like that is

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: clear and you wouldn't say, you know what?

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You're right.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You'd go, the case can be made.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think in most director's cases, the case cannot be made.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: There's also a little bit more recently added George Miller to

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: this very rare.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Not that I agree, but the case can now be made.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_05]: The Tarantino thing obviously of like him being like,

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to retire because right, like nobody's good at

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_05]: the back half of their career anyway.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_05]: It always comes into a decline and then people like,

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, Scorsese or Spielberger out there being

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_05]: like, look, we're still making amazing movies.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_05]: By and large, I think you're right.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Bergman.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I remember we had the long conversation about this one.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It was like the like 30 to 50 film make 30 to 50 films.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_02]: People get gets a little harder to say,

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_05]: but like Bergman is the one where his last four movies

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_05]: or five movies is like cries and whispers scenes from

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_05]: marriage, you know, face to face, autumn sonata,

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Fanny and Alexander where you're like, he may have

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_05]: actually crested late, but then with Bergman or

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_05]: someone like that, like the long film runs,

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_05]: like you're, you know, you can also just kind of be

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_05]: like, yeah, but no, I prefer this bit.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Like cause he's got so many peaks.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You couldn't say you could, but it would be very hard

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_02]: to say like, credibly, I don't think he made persona

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_02]: during his best period.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Whereas like you could say like, no, I don't think

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch, you could be like, no, he actually had room to

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_05]: grow or whatever.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: There's people that were just always the same,

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: always good and made a movie a year.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a little trickier to say like, yeah,

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_05]: but talking about this stuff, he is

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_05]: the good thing you have to show.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_05]: That's what I'm saying.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, isn't it fun?

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It just feels very incredibly rare for someone to be

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and I run into the things I was thinking about

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: is like this filmmaker who you're talking about,

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: in a way that very few people do Spielberg,

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: another one, which is why their eventual team up

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: is so important.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: He has a defining movie of the 70s.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_02]: He has a defining movie of the 80s.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I would argue that Twin Peaks is a defining

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_02]: cultural work of the 90s.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Not a single movie.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And he has a defining work of the 2000s.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And almost I would say a defining work of the

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_02]: 2010s.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: If you, Mulholland for 2000s and return for

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: 2010s, I think you're right.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's strange.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like everything is defining,

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: but he is one of the rarest people where it's like,

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, he has five decades where one of his films

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_02]: could just be on the cover of a book called

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Moving Images of the Decade.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Moving Images of the 80s.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Blue Velvet's on the cover.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_02]: No further questions.

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Moving Images of the 2000s.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Mulholland Drive.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Perfect choice for the cover.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And a race for it on the cover of the 70s.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_01]: No one's like who the fuck chose that.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be a weird choice, but not an insane one.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_01]: We could give it some props.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Here's an interesting exercise.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Alex, your sight and sound top 10 list for this was for

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_01]: 2022?

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yup.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Clockwork Orange.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Love it.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Covered you did the episode.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Texas Chains, I'm sorry, the Texas Chainsaw

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Massacre.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Add the, that's messier.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I put the recent remake on my sight and

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: sound list, Michael Mann style.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_05]: You loved it.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_05]: That recent legacy.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Any cars people have been a bus.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the only thing I remember from that one.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Psycho.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Great moving.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Paranthetical 1960.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I would agree with that.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_01]: The elephant man being covered right now,

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_01]: clearly on the episode where we talked about

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Homer at the Bat.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Great film.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Next movie you're about to say is the next

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_05]: mini-series we're doing.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_05]: We're doing our John Ustash.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be a short one.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Mother and the Whore.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Long movies, short mini.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis Hopper's the last movie.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Mother and the Whore would be a movie where I

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: think my episode wouldn't be as long as the

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: movie, which could be.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_05]: It would be very tough.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, last movie.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You guys feasibly should consider Hopper.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_02]: We could do Hopper.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: We could do him on the Hopper.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a real Ben series.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like three hours and 45 minutes long

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_05]: of Mother and the Whore.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's the.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Very long.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That's very long.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: There's no clock above their heads while

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: they're making that one.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Rosemary's Baby, Rushmore, Blowout,

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: The Brown Bunny.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: All great movies.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Which of these movies is most likely to be

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: covered next on the show?

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Next.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I guess that I think Toby Hooper as

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_05]: much as, that's a very interesting

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_05]: filmography that's probably not coming up

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_05]: soon.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: More likely you do Texas Chainsaw

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and Patreon.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_05]: A franchise commentary on that.

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Hopper is one of those things where it's

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_05]: like, that's an interesting idea.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think we're rushing to that

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_05]: either.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_05]: No, but it'd be interesting to do.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I love that movie.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not going to spoil anything.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not going to spoil anything.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's do it.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But you guys have, you've said that

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: one of your dozens of March Madness

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: ideas is an all maniacs bracket

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and all weirdos.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And Hopper would be a great contender

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_02]: for the like, these are just 32

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_02]: insane filmmakers and, you know,

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: your.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: As would Vincent Gallow.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: He might be tough to put on any

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: bracket.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I have a notes app that's like five

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: different ideas for possible

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_01]: March Madness is where I've done

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: the experiment of are there 32

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: you could fit in?

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I think at some point you just said

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: we might do all sickos.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Sicko bracket.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: There was also one time as a

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01]: thought experiment, we were like,

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: could we put 32 canceled people

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: onto a bracket?

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I've had that thought as well

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: whenever.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Oops only canceled.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll never do it.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was like, who do you

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_01]: fill up 32 and we filled up,

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: it was really fast.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_05]: That'd be great.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I think Wes Anderson or Brian

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_05]: DePalma are probably the most

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_05]: likely people.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_05]: For us to do some time in the

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_05]: next few years.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like you've gotten a

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: little warmer on the West idea

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: which you maybe were a little

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: more against a couple years

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: ago post after the city.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but I like to make

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_05]: everyone think that I hate

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_05]: him and would hate the

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_05]: miniseries.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Much like I hate hot fuzz.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to fuck, I blew it.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Just to rattle everyone.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to pretend I like the

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: movie.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm the light.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_05]: It's better than my

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_05]: frickin boring ass

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_05]: sight and sound.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, David's

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_01]: This was unimpeachable.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for reading it.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: A matter of life.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Snores coming from.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_05]: There you go.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Ben's happy.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Lots a lot.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Matter of life and death

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_01]: late spring.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Mrs. Miller

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01]: circled.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Alien we've covered on

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Patreon.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Do the right thing.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Lost this March Madness

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Spike Lee.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It's true.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: David Lynch.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Chunking Express feels

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_01]: inevitable.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Boat Revive.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Should be interesting.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Clared to me.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm sure you have a lot

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: of good stuff to say about

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: the series.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You know,

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and what's this at the

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: bottom of my list?

[00:25:56] Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: mojave.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, pretty much.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty much top 10 for

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_02]: ever man.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Mojave.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You should do an episode

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02]: about it.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_02]: No, we're just getting on it.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, we're going to

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_05]: skip that one.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll just kind of be like

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah, that one's good.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Five stars.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_05]: See you later.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_05]: The elephant man.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_05]: The elephant man.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: He has a defining work

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_02]: in five decades.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he does.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_05]: He's a weird guy.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And I wouldn't put it past him

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_05]: to somehow have one in this

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_05]: decade.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I mean, I don't know,

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_05]: but if he made one more thing

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_05]: in every now and then.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: How funny was it when two

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_05]: weeks ago he was like

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: something's coming?

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was everyone's like

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_02]: what's it going to be?

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I read it was like

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: fucking New Twin Peaks season

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: feature length film.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: a relevant music release

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: that nobody cares about?

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Almost definitely.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me let me just assume

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_02]: he's putting out another

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_02]: album or a new blend of

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: coffee.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I had like,

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a little money

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: on new blend of coffee.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: He said for your eyes in here.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't say for your taste buds

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and your tummy or whatever.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, look.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Childish language he would favor.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: David Lynch isn't going to tell

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: you how to ingest coffee.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You could put it in your eyes

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: in yours if you wanted to.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I could see David Lynch

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_01]: saying tummy.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Ben, do you know the,

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I forget if this was the name

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_02]: of his album or his single,

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: but do you know that he

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: recently put out an album

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: or a song called Crazy Clown

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Time?

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I do.

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Crazy Clown Time.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you picture him saying

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: that in his voice?

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Crazy Clown Time.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: When that was announced,

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I was just like,

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I love the guy.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I assume you're,

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_04]: he's growing on you

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_04]: or you love him.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, when you say recently,

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_04]: because he's about to put out

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_04]: a new album.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what he just teased.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Crazy Clown Time was like

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_04]: an album or two ago.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_04]: He just puts out the song

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and it's insane.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_04]: His music is kind of crazy.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_04]: What?

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Like obviously,

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_04]: is it like Crazy Clown

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Crazy?

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of clown crazy.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Like kind of crazy.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Kind of circus music?

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_04]: It's just you expect him.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I've really expected his music

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_04]: to sound a certain way

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_04]: and then I've been going through

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_04]: more like the album.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_04]: You thought it was going to be

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_01]: more sort of like

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: confessional pop.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just saying,

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I assumed based on like

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_04]: his movies always having

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_04]: like really fantastic music

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_04]: and then you listen

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_04]: it's just kind of like

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_04]: insane.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Like he's singing voices

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_04]: really weird.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I would describe it as like

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Crazy Clown Time.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like kind of the vibe

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: of his music.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I forget if it was

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: if that was the song

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_02]: then the album was a good day

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: today or if

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the album was Crazy Clown Time

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and the song was a good day

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: today.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Good question.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And I never listen to any of

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: this obviously,

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: but I just can picture him

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_02]: in his voice.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you folks

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: repeating these words

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and don't forget to wear

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: sunscreen,

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Boz Lerman kind of spoken

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: word,

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: non-song song?

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you folks agree with me

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that this movie is like

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: the single most transformative

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_01]: step of his career

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_01]: in that were it not

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: for this you could imagine him

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: just being like,

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I make movies like

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Eraserhead.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Well it's very important.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I work wildly outside of the

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: system.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I got very nervous watching it

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_02]: because I love it.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I love it more than almost any

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_02]: other movie.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And watching it I had this

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: creeping fear that

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_02]: this is not a very

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: interesting movie.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's incredibly interesting

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_02]: in the body of his career.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But it is not a movie.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You mean like to discuss.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_02]: To analyze, to dissect,

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: to theorize,

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_02]: like come in

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and talk Clockwork Orange,

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_02]: ten people could write ten

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_02]: dissertations on different

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: meanings of that movie.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_02]: This movie is, it is what it is.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is perfect in my opinion.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's why it's interesting

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to discuss because it is.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree because it's very

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: strange that this was his

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: second film.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's basically someone

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: who maybe was

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: going to construct a career

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_01]: almost exclusively as an

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_01]: avant-garde artist.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Not being forced to like

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: tell a straightforward story

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_01]: but this is most

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: narratively conventional film.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: It is a most

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_01]: emotionally direct film.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean the competition for this

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: is straight story but straight

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_01]: story as he's always said is

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: like very weird narratively.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of bottled

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: emotionally.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And that came out, people worked

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot harder to bend over

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_02]: backwards to place it somewhere

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: in his uvra.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas this had no uvra

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and this was, what now is

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_02]: a classic, a classic thing.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Some guy made an underground

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: sensation and then they hired

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: him to make some big movie

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and guess what it turned out

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: turned out good.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_05]: And it doesn't feel like he just

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_05]: phoned in what they wanted.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_05]: He made a David Lynch film.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It feels like his film.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: An expression of his

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_01]: sensibility as you could

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: possibly imagine.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And I watched this again last

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: night and I was just like

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: every second while watching this

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_01]: movie you imagine the

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_01]: million other versions of this

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_01]: movie that are all worse.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's true.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_01]: would even still be good.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Or they would be serviceable

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Oscar films that were

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_05]: well acted and you'd be kind of

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_05]: like, yeah, that was that was

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of like magical,

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: delicate,

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: unsentimental,

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: but deeply felt

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_01]: perfectly constructed,

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's not overly precious.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You know,

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_01]: it's easy for this film to

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: feel like this kind of like

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_01]: pastiche

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: jewelry box kind of

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01]: ornate

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01]: or modeling even just like the

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_01]: the line I

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_01]: offensively reappropriated at

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_01]: the beginning of this episode.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_01]: The most you're right.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, quote unquote, modeling

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: moments and a moment that is

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: parodied in a lot of other big

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_01]: things.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's also that's like that

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_02]: clip could be in an Oscars

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: montage.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And nobody would be like,

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: wow, they haven't lunch made

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_02]: it.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But also how does that play

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_01]: out in the actual movie?

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It is he is largely obstructed.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You are the cameras place

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_01]: behind the crowd.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He is pinned against the wall

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_01]: in my memory.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, he's yelling it

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_05]: right into the camera.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_05]: A hundred.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I know that.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I know after the line is

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: over.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I know I had the exact

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_05]: same thought watching it.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I've like, right, it is

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_05]: interesting how it's like this,

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, behind everyone's

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_05]: backs, he's by the urinals.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You can barely see him.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_01]: You cut to a close up.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You go and tight on John

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Hertz eyes as he delivers that

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_01]: like primal scream.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: No one begrudges him.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: No one is like that's cheap

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and manipulative.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But the amount of self

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: control to be like,

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: no, this doesn't need any

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: embellishment.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: This is emotionally affecting

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: enough as it is.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it is so painful.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: It is probably more affecting

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_01]: to pull away.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's right.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very good decision.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's very, it's a magical

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_02]: movie and it's magical the way

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: it came together.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very strange that this is

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_02]: a second movie.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like you watch this

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and you imagine I saw

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_02]: a racer head at midnight.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But you just like, I don't know

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_02]: he had it in him like,

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_02]: like, but now, now.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: That is what's beautiful.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: No one has ever watched this

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and been like, I didn't know

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: he had it in him because

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: we've seen his other movies.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But I just watch this and

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: think about this second.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, after all, you know,

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you're like, the sort of

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_01]: limbs, the multiple people

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_01]: who had to go out on limbs

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and be like, I think he can

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: make this.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And then he just did

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: like it's not, there's no

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_02]: magic to it.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And he himself, I think,

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: wouldn't have thought

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: he could make this were

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_01]: people not to suggest it to

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: him.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about all that.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: What's your relationship

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_01]: with it?

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_01]: With this film?

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: When did you first see it?

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I saw it when I was in high

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_01]: school.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I watched it

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: like many movies I talked

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: about on the show and my

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_01]: obsessive teenager.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I need to watch three

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_01]: movies every night

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and not do homework period.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Great, great period for you.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: It, you know, probably

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_01]: watched at like two o'clock

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: in the morning when I should

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: have been sleeping, hoping

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: my dad wasn't going to knock

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: on my door and tell me to go

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to sleep, which makes this

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_01]: movie feel even more eerie.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Watching this movie on

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_01]: like standard def on VHS or

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_01]: DVD or TV or whatever it was

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: the first times I watched

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_01]: this in shittier transfers,

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_01]: there was a feeling of this

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: actually feels like a movie

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: from the 40s.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You know it's not

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_01]: but something about the

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: degradation of it.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was watching it

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01]: on my imported 4k now

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'd never seen it

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_01]: look so pristine, which I

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: don't say in a negative way.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But I remember watching it

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and feeling like this feels

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_01]: like some bizarre time paradox

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_01]: object.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_01]: What about you, Alex?

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_05]: This is obviously a big pivotal

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_05]: movie for you.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't remember when

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I first saw it other than

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: like a lot of things has also

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: discussed Kubrick.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I think Blue Velvet was on

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_02]: the 98 AFI Top 100.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I probably saw that first.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And then this was probably

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the next ones up

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and this goes into

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_02]: one of my big exciting

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: fun thoughts about Lynch

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that I would have just seen this

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_02]: because this was, let's say

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_02]: it's 1999 or let's say it's

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: 2004.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is one of his

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_02]: only movies that you could

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: just go rent.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Like at that time,

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a high likelihood

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_02]: you're not finding

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Eraserhead at Blockbuster.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: This was a big studio film

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: that was available through all

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_01]: means that Paramount

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_01]: distributed movies

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_01]: like circulation TV.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas Oscar film,

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_02]: it was a mainstream film

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that your parents would have

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: seen and unlike Blue Velvet

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_02]: wouldn't think it is weird

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_02]: for a kid to watch.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So much of the Lynch canon

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_01]: otherwise was treated

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_01]: like the Disney library

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: where it's like it's

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: available now for three weeks.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is one of the

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_02]: most I mean, so, you know,

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_02]: this was a lot easier to see

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah, certainly.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously Blue Velvet

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and Wild at Heart were

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_02]: studio films as well.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But like moving in

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: then this is something

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I've always found important

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_02]: about him.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Moving into the DVD era, right?

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So when, you know,

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_02]: we all are obviously older

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_02]: than you guys a little bit

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_02]: but like what have been getting

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_02]: trying to get your hands on movies.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's say the dawn of the DVD era.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Power of DVD is flying

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: out of the screen at you.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's exploding out of the White House.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Possibilities are infinite.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: With an alien spaceship.

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't see Eraserhead.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Eraserhead is not on DVD.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_01]: No, it takes a while.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You can see this.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_02]: You can see

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Wild at Heart and Blue Velvet.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't see the pilot of Twin Peaks.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't see any of it.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_02]: There's the Twin Peaks VHS box set

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_02]: but for years,

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_02]: it wasn't available

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and then the DVDs were out

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and then they were out of print

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and season two was not available.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So Twin Peaks was like this weird thing

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_02]: where you could watch basically

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: parts two through eight

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and nothing else legally.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You, Lost Highway was available

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: in a terrible full screen

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_02]: broke-ass transfer.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was very unappealing.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Very hard to access

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and that was on tape too.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Mahalan Drive was available

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_02]: in this weird DVD with no chapters.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And then recently for years

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_02]: in the Empire it was out of circulation.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, yeah.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And you look at like

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: what makes a cult filmmaker

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_02]: a cult filmmaker?

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_02]: For 15 years there was a hunt

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: for his work.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, having it be a challenge

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_02]: was big.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_05]: It makes it cool.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Which made this movie less cool.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it was right there

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_02]: but it also meant

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: more people got to see it

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: but what makes a cult filmmaker

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_02]: significant is like

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_02]: a Racerhead even until the 2000s

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: when you know you guys know

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: like the big goofy DVD box.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_02]: We talked about the big box.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: A Racerhead 2000

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_02]: much like Blues Brothers 2000

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm sure same thing you said

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: but this is one of the funniest things ever

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that you've changed.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: J. Evan Bonifon of course plays

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Buster, a Racerhead.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: He just self releases.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Incredible point.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_01]: An unwieldy,

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_02]: totally disgracefully designed

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_02]: box of one of the most important

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_02]: movies of all time.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And just then a little paper sleeve

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_01]: inside this oversized box.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And not even a paper sleeve

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_02]: like the DVD slides out of

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: like this thick like board game

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_02]: ass cardboard.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And he just slaps the numbers

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: 2000 on it.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the lime green box

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_01]: where it was like here's a couple

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_01]: of his movies and some of the

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_01]: shorts and some special.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_02]: The shorts were also in the box.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So the two boxes were

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: a Racerhead and six short films.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there was the

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_02]: dumbland box.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But then what is included

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_02]: the lime green box is a weird.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_02]: That's like after my DVD time

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't care about the lime green

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_02]: box.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to go on the record

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_01]: so you don't care about

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_01]: the lime green box.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But he you know he puts out a

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Racerhead and it looked great.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It was an incredible looking DVD

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: but it was just so annoying to

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: have and it didn't fit anywhere.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know we're talking

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: like 20 years where this is one

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_02]: of the most important movies

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's kind of hard to see

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_02]: unless an old beat up tape

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_02]: of it was at a store

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: or you lived in a place where

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_02]: you'd see it at a revival.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's very strange that

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_02]: his reputation or it's not

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_02]: strange at all.

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the most obvious thing

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: in the world but it's strange

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that he's basically a mainstream

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_02]: artist right.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Like these are all the exception

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_02]: of a Racerhead.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_02]: These are all studio or studio

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_02]: adjacent movies.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: The lime green box was sort of

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: a Racerhead.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Disc two is the soundtrack.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Disc three is short films.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Disc four is Elephant Man.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Disc five is the Elephant Man

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_01]: extras which is mostly a

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: documentary about the real

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: John Merrick.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Disc six is Blue Velvet.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Seven is Wild at Heart.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Eight is Industrial Symphony

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Volume one.

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Nine is Dumbland.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Ten is Mystery DVD.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is mostly just him talking

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: straight to Cameron.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah this is some nonsense.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Right and it was like a bunch of

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: a weird combination of stuff

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: in one box that was in print

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_01]: for like one month on his

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: website.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah he like so he had this

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: weird relationship with access

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that clearly defines like the

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_02]: path of a cult filmmaker.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Hodorowski, El Topo and Holy

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Mountain were hard to see.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_05]: You have to go to a midnight

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_05]: showing or whatever.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Hard to see forever.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But the other thing about

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_02]: him as we're talking about is

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02]: like honestly I know it's going

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02]: to sound like a joke.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Much like Kevin Smith.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_02]: He is a Craven capitalist.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Who loves marketing his own goods

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_02]: to his own fans directly.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And controlling his own sort of

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I honestly think they were

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: some of they were maybe the

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: two first significant filmmakers

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_02]: to just have their own website

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: with their own web store.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes and like sell the products.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean you remember that era

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: of the IFC where any movie

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: you would go to see would have

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: 20 minutes of pre-roll not

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: including trailers including

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: like short attention span

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: theater and whatever.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But I remember and the heavy

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: metal tour.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Still show it.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: But I remember a period where

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I would see three different

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: David Lynch pre-roll things

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: where they would like

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: advertise his DVDs on sale

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_01]: at the concession stands.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_01]: They'd have an ad for his

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_01]: coffee line.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_02]: The clip of him talking about

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_02]: it during something.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_01]: David Lynch premium select

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: coffee.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to remind me.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was like this guy is

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_05]: like a fucking mogul.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_05]: No to me it's not mogul or

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_05]: craving capitalism.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like more old fashioned

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_05]: like pre-cinema hucksterism

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_05]: not in a bad way.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_05]: But like this kind of like

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_05]: traveling salesman vibe of

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_05]: like.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But there's also control

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: your own destiny.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Like if you.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah kind of except like a lot

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_05]: of his stuff he didn't

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_05]: control and then he would

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_05]: do stuff like put out the

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Mulholland Drive DVD that I

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_05]: owned and watch endlessly

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_05]: that is like an insulting

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_05]: product.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Like and it's insane that

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_05]: that was the way I consume

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_05]: my favorite movie that's like

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_05]: in shitty shape.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_05]: He's like I don't like

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_05]: DVD chapter so it has no

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_05]: DVD chapters.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just like a bare bones and

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_05]: like he blurred out some of the

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_05]: nudity because he like felt bad

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_05]: about that which is like now

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_05]: been undone.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_05]: You know sure shit like that

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_05]: where you're just like what

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_05]: is this?

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the only way to watch

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_05]: this movie.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know who's calling

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_05]: you.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh and client is calling.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh and clients calling.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh and clients would love to

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_05]: his film funny pages.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Friend of the show.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Is he?

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Friend of the show.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I never met the guy.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Overdue we got him on the

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: podcast.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He's banned.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_07]: That is not nice.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We went to see spawn together.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Seer of spawn.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: The infamous screen.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: The reason David wasn't invited

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: to.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_02]: It's all because of the way I

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: made these plans with Owen.

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean?

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Well because what had happened

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: with the spawn screening is that

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I had said first I heard about

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I said to Owen let's go see

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: spawn.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And then at some point.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it fair to say that you

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and Owen have kind of spawn

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_01]: violator vibes?

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah it is.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure why not?

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's spawn?

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I'm spawn.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: He's more yeah.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_02]: He's more clown I guess.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And then at some point.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Commits the run of planning for

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_02]: this.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I just said I wonder if Ben

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_02]: would be into spawn.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Owen said.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: You wonder.

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh there you go.

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_02]: That's actually an insulting

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_02]: question.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if Ben would be

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_02]: into going to the screening

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_02]: of spawn.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah that's still an

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_02]: insulting question.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Owen later was

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_02]: like we should invite Griffin.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Griffin and I used to be

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_02]: all in on spawn.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: By the way Ben what is that

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_01]: on Alex's desk?

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you notice there's

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_04]: something wrapped?

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Left on the desk.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very curious what's in the

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: dossier.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Should we see what's in the

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: dossier or what's in Ben's

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_04]: This is kind of a tradition

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to say that I

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_04]: get you a Christmas present

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_04]: and usually you come on the

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_04]: show some time.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I've opened up a corner.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I see a flaming green in.

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Could be anything.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It could be any one.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It could be Bridges of Madison

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: County.

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you have there?

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a VHS of Todd

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_02]: McFarlane's spawn 2.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_02]: HBO home video.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_02]: The second volume of the animated

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: series with a lenticular cover.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me see that cover.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, look at that.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So we of course love the

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_02]: animated series.

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It was obviously a vulgar

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: animated series rated R with

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: nudity.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing had ever been done

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_02]: like that before.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting huge spawn vibes

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_01]: from that cover.

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It was also one of the

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_05]: classic 90s.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Like well you know what the

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_05]: real best version of X comic

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_05]: book is is the under scene

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_05]: animated series.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes it came out like

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: versus the film after the

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: movie or something.

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_02]: They were in development at

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: the same time.

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you Ben.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You're welcome Alex.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway the reason that

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: David wasn't invited to

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: that screening is because

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like me.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: No I just invited Owen and

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_02]: then later I invited Ben

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and then Owen said let's

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: invite Griffin and then it

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_02]: was all out of control.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_01]: David.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what we like?

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01]: If you had to name one

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_01]: thing that you and I

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_01]: show like on this show.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we love the movie.

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_01]: We love the movie.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_01]: What?

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And what do we love?

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_01]: We love going to see

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: the movie at the theater.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: That is very very good.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's very true.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very important to us.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_05]: The theater experience is worth

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_05]: preserving is the best way

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_05]: to experience a movie.

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And let's just say it.

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_01]: David we're thrilled.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_01]: We're excited.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_01]: We're overjoyed.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_01]: This has long been in the

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_01]: works to celebrate the great

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_01]: union of Regal and

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Blank Check because Regal

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Cinema is offering Blankies

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_01]: an incredible deal on

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: unlimited movies.

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You know from the Regal

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Unlimited program David.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_01]: The Regal Unlimited

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Program is an all you can

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_05]: watch movie subscription

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_05]: pass it pays for itself

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_05]: in just two visits.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01]: You see any standard 2D movie

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_01]: anytime with no blackout

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_01]: dates or restrictions

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: premium formats you can get

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_01]: your reservations for those

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_01]: as well pay the little

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_01]: surcharge which of course

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: includes my beloved 4DX

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_01]: with Regal Unlimited

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: you won't just save money

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: on tickets you also save

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_01]: on snacks members get 10%

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01]: off all non-alcoholic

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_01]: concession items.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're planning to

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: see two movies this month

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_01]: where Regal Unlimited

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_01]: just makes sense.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: We're both fans of this

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_01]: program. We're both members

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Regal Unlimited exactly we're

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_05]: both members.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Card carrying members.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And it is insane how easy

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_01]: it is to use it.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It is so simple.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It's easy, peasy and

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_01]: you know what else is easy

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_01]: peasy? You can sign up

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[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: App or at the link in

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_01]: the description for this

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_01]: episode and use code

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Blank Check one word

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to get 10% off your

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: three month subscription.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean this is a big deal

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_05]: huge this is a movie

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_05]: company that shows movies

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_05]: in theaters which we love

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_05]: sponsoring our movie podcast

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah and the two of us go

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_05]: to Regal Cinema all the time

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_01]: see movies once again for DX

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't understand how

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_01]: exciting this is for us guys

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and I also want to say

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: here's some benefits you sign

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_01]: for Regal Unlimited you get

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_01]: the free tickets for your

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[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_01]: per month.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You also can earn points

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_01]: get your purchases you make

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: this is real griff stuff.

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_01]: The Regal Crown Club

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_03]: have been a member since

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_03]: 2008 baby you can redeem

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_01]: those points for upgrades

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_01]: on concessions or free

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_01]: concessions but also you

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01]: can log on to their website

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and you can buy

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_01]: excess promotional merchandise

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I do this all the time

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_01]: oh how do you get

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_01]: figural cuptoppers months later

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_01]: click click click click click

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_01]: type type type type redeem

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_01]: points.

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Also on Mondays you get

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_05]: 25% off candy on Tuesdays

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_05]: you get 50% off popcorn

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_05]: plus you get discounted movie

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_05]: tickets as low as $5 with a

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Regal Value Days program

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_05]: look at this it's

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_05]: embarrassment of riches on

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_05]: your birthday you get a

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_05]: free popcorn I love my

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_05]: birthday every time you

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_05]: visit a ticket to a movie

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Regal Crown Club just tracks

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_05]: those visits and you get the

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_05]: bonus extra credits you don't

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_05]: have to do anything it's

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_05]: just doing it for you.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I sound a little more excited

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_01]: about it David that's

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_01]: incredible it's really

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_01]: incredible what ease of use

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_05]: once again go to the Regal

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_05]: App or you can use the link

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_05]: in the description and use

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_05]: code blank check to get 10%

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_05]: off your three month

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_05]: subscription.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I know you can go see

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_01]: movies I go to the Regal

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Essex a lot that's sort of

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_05]: my local Regal.

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Where do you go?

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I go to Union Square

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: because they got the

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: 40X.

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Right you like the

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_05]: 40X.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I love the 40X

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_01]: David.

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Regal.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_05]: In 1977 David Lynch

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_05]: released Eraserhead.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_01]: A five year project finally

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_01]: released out into the world.

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_01]: A film you like?

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I love Eraserhead it's

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_02]: pretty great.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like one of the

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_02]: artistic miracles of the

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_02]: 70s.

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I would agree.

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm realizing this must

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_01]: have been the second

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Lynch film I had seen

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Elephant Man that I saw

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_01]: straight story in theaters

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_01]: my parents took me to

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_01]: New Jellica and had the

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_01]: it's so weird that he

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_01]: made this conversation I was

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_01]: like what do you mean?

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I watched his

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_01]: other most conventional

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_01]: movie and probably watched

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Eraserhead after that.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of my context

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_01]: for this movie was not

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_01]: really watching it through

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_01]: any understanding of who

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_01]: David Lynch was in a

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_01]: serious way.

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway 1977 he makes

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Eraserhead.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Film is obviously on the

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_05]: midnight movie circuit

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_05]: it has this slow but

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_05]: intense cult following

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_05]: that's building.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Marty Michelson a

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_05]: William Morris agent is

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_05]: then interested obviously

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_05]: in doing more Lynch stuff

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and tries to get Ronnie

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Rocket made which is

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Alex is just looking at the

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_01]: spawn cover and smite like

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to hear this

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_02]: context I am listening.

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah there's a warning

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_02]: on the cover though.

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Was it say too cool

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_02]: warning following program

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_02]: is recommended for

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_02]: mature audiences only it

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_02]: contains adult situations

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_02]: adult language graphic

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_02]: violence and nudity.

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I would say that spawn

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_05]: selling his soul to

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_05]: the devil to become

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_05]: an immortal warrior is

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_05]: an adult situation.

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I would say that is not

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_05]: a situation that

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_05]: children find themselves

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_05]: in often but then it

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_05]: violator like pooping

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_05]: through his pants or

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_05]: whatever is a little

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_05]: grown up.

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Childish childish

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_02]: situation have you ever

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_05]: read Ronnie Rocket the

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_05]: sort of fabled

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Unproduced Lynch project.

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I was doing a little bit of

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_02]: brush up about it.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I've never like read

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_02]: those you know

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_02]: you guys mentioned this

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes you're like oh

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the script for it's out there

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I've read it I'm like fuck

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_02]: wants to do that.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like I used to do

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_05]: it back in the day when

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I had less going on and

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I was a teenager.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Three scripts out there

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you can read I'm like I

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_02]: don't want to read a fucking

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_02]: planet.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the kind of thing I

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: would have bought at a

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_02]: comic convention in like

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_02]: 9789 and then poured over

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_02]: but you know yeah I'm

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_02]: not going to sit down and

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_02]: read Ronnie Rocket.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_05]: At one point Lynch

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_05]: supposedly says he pitched

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Ronnie Rocket to like a major

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_05]: studio and they were like

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_05]: what's it about and he was

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_05]: like it's about electricity

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_05]: and a three foot guy with

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_05]: red hair and they were

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_05]: like OK and he never got

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_05]: a call back get out of my

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_05]: office and

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_02]: to be fair he could you

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_02]: know someone because

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_02]: there was the elephant

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_02]: man about he'd be like

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_02]: it's about smokestacks

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and hospital ethics and

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_02]: they'd be like OK

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_02]: fine get please leave.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Christine McKenna says the

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_05]: details of the story are

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like one is about a

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_05]: detective who's going into

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_05]: the inner zone in pursuit

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_05]: of a villain who's hijacked

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_05]: electricity and reversed it

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_05]: so electricity makes darkness

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_05]: instead of light.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_05]: The second storyline is

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_05]: about a 16 year old boy

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_05]: who's kind of a Frankenstein

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_05]: monster.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_02]: This is Ronnie Rocket.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes and the whole movie

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_05]: is kind of about the

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_05]: birth of rock and roll

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and the boy becomes kind

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_05]: of like a rock star

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_05]: electricity is popping

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_05]: everywhere and then

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_05]: apparently there's some

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_05]: peculiar sexual stuff and

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_05]: dysfunctional family and

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_05]: some weird violence.

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Sounds like a David Lynch

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_05]: movie.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I would love to see him

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_01]: make it just because I want

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to see everyone get to make

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_01]: their megalopolis.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But you also hear

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_01]: everything about it and

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_01]: you're like it feels like

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the pieces of this ended up

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_01]: across this whole.

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Right he put it aside

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_01]: longer.

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Remember like 15 years

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_02]: ago when Jonathan Coet

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_02]: was supposed to make it

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_02]: after Tarnation.

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I do remember that.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_02]: He had some bad health

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_02]: problems really there's

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_02]: like huge go fun.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I donated to the go

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_02]: fun but he was because

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_02]: there's like a blue velvet

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_02]: riff in Tarnation and then

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_02]: it was like oh he might

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_02]: make Ronnie.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It was Ronnie Rock it out

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_02]: after watching this movie.

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like Lynch must have

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_02]: a great Wikipedia page

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_02]: like like a John Carpenter

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_02]: of Unmade Projects 40 movies

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_02]: that no it doesn't seem to

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_02]: have there.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_02]: This is kind of the only

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_02]: unmade thing that's like

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah that's his unmade

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_02]: movie that was kind of

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_02]: like softly announced

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_02]: or something.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_01]: There was some interview

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_01]: recently where he mentioned

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_01]: that he had written an

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_01]: animated film years ago

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and had polished it off

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and was trying to send

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_01]: it around and then I talked

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_01]: to a major I will not.

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I will keep this enormous talk

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_01]: to someone.

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I talked to people at a major

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the major American

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_01]: animation studios who were

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_01]: like we have the script

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_01]: or considering it.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know if he

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_01]: directed and they were

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_01]: like it is very much like

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_01]: straightforward well written

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_01]: animated film.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It is not a deeply bizarre

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_01]: thing.

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of yeah it's

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_05]: like about what if there

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_05]: was the spy and he like

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_05]: turned into a pigeon

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_05]: you know midway through

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_05]: his spy adventures.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the most fucked up

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_01]: premise I've ever heard.

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_05]: That's some lynchie and

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_05]: nightmare shit.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_05]: David Lynch.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I watched Tarnation with

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_05]: my entire family because

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_05]: like my aunt rented it

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_05]: like one Thanksgiving

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_05]: or something and I remember

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_05]: 10 minutes into the movie

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I aged 17 was like oh this

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_05]: film is not going to go over

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_05]: with anyone but me in this

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_05]: family like this is incredibly

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_05]: difficult to watch abstract

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_05]: documentary about a person's

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_05]: arm.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I saw that movie like

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_01]: four times in theaters

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_01]: because that's way too many

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_03]: times to see that movie.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I also was just like is

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_01]: this like the first time

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen someone actually

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_01]: possibly create a new

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_01]: language in cinema which

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_01]: felt very exciting and it's

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_01]: like ended up being a bit of

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_01]: a dead end.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of a footnote or whatever.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is fascinating.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It's an interesting film

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_05]: if anyone ever you know

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_05]: comes around to it.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Tarnation.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh we're still time to go.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_05]: No we're going to move on.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_05]: So um.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay it's okay you know.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Stuart Cornfield.

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Good movie.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Who is a producer

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_05]: that's interested in

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch and says he's a

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_05]: fucking genius.

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_05]: He'd worked at he'd come

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_05]: up at the AFI around the

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_01]: same time as Lynch.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And a producer per-per-per

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_01]: he's a lot of things together.

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_01]: He also came up the same time

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_01]: as Martin Breast.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Or Buddy Marty Breast.

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And another person who is

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_01]: attending AFI at the same time

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_01]: is.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Ambencroft.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Ambencroft.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously incredibly established

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Academy Award winning actress

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_01]: at this point but wants to

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_01]: direct makes the film that

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_01]: later she adapts into the

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_01]: feature Fatso starring Dom

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Delouise.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But Cornfield friends with

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Marty Breast meets Ambencroft

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_01]: which connects him to

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_01]: of course Mel Brooks.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Mel Brooks who is Ambencroft's

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_01]: husband.

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And all of this is happening a

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_01]: little after David Lynch's

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_01]: time there but I think Lynch

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_01]: is looming as a recent

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_01]: AFI alumni.

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So are you covering the short

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_02]: films?

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So they're good right Ben?

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Good vibes.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I've never seen any of them

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_04]: yet.

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_04]: No we haven't done them yet.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_04]: So.

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And the albums?

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Cornfield.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Crazy Clown Time on

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_02]: pictures.

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And the coffee.

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Cornfield talks to

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm now doing like what my

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_05]: wife does in high school I

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_05]: think.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just going to go quiet until

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_05]: everyone is silent.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Cornfield talks to Lynch and

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_05]: says you're a genius but you

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_05]: really just need to make a

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_05]: movie which I think is

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_05]: obviously usually good advice

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_05]: right?

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's funny because the guy

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_05]: hasn't made movies.

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Eraserhead is fresh.

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like he hasn't done

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_02]: it for ten years.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But also it was a five year

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_01]: birthing process.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You can see Cornfield being

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_01]: like you can't just go back

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_01]: into another thing it's

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_01]: going to take five years to

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_01]: come out.

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the thing I think

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch is also like what do

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_05]: you think of this Ronnie

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Rocket and he's like I think

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_05]: this is very interesting I

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_05]: don't think you're going to

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_05]: be able to make this right

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_05]: away.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Like you need to just make a

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_05]: movie.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And so they set aside that

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_05]: and then now to switch over

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_05]: to Elephant Man once there

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_05]: was an Elephant Man so that's

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_05]: the origin of this story.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_05]: The Elephant Man.

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_05]: John Merrick.

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes that's Joseph Merrick

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_05]: but you can keep it.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Why did he change his name?

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_01]: In the movie they call him

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_01]: John Merrick.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_05]: He's John in the movie.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_05]: They refer to him as John

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_05]: in the movie and I'm not

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_05]: sure why.

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So on the special feature

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a so.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But the real guy?

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Joseph.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Joey Jojo.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a little special

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_02]: feature on the criteria.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You called him Joey Jojo?

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Keep going.

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Apparently when Treves

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_02]: wrote his.

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Treves?

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_02]: When he wrote his monograph

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_02]: on Merrick.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_02]: He just wrote that they

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: have a picture of it in the

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_02]: special feature.

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_02]: He wrote Joseph crossed it

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_02]: out and wrote John.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And that just and according

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_02]: to the historian on the

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_02]: special feature it says

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_02]: no one knows why he did

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_02]: this.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it was a goof.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_02]: No because you see it crossed

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_02]: off and he says it may have

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_02]: been done to afford him a bit

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_02]: of anonymity, a bit of

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_02]: modest historian on the.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_05]: No Lisa S.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So he basically just says

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_02]: when Treves wrote his

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_02]: monograph on him he just

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_02]: changed it.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Treves to be clear the doctor

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_05]: who treated Mr.

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Merrick and his play by

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Anthony Hopkins in the film.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's one of those things

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_02]: like it says on Wikipedia

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_02]: like that Treves changed it.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It was he was Joseph.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone knew that.

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And then when he wrote his

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_02]: book that the movie is largely

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_02]: sourced from.

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_02]: He just said what if it was

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_02]: John.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So Christopher DeVore and

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Eric Bergen.

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_05]: This screenplay largely drawn

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_05]: from that a little bit

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_05]: drawn from this book The

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Elephant Man of Studying

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Human Dignity as well.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_01]: This is happening.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Which came later.

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Simultaneously with the

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_01]: play being written which has

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_01]: no relation to this.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_05]: In the play the way you

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_05]: play the elephant man is

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_05]: your Bradley Cooper and

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_05]: you go one of the funny

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean just one of the funniest

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_01]: pictures.

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Wasn't the play originated on

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Broadway by Mark Hamill.

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_05]: He was in it.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think he was the

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_05]: star replacement.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he was one of the

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_01]: people who has gone.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was a big I'm not just

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Luke Skywalker watching play

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_01]: The Elephant Man.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_05]: There is no way to discuss

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_05]: what these actors do on

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_05]: stage because you've seen

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_02]: the pictures of Bradley

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Cooper and even I believe

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_02]: David Bowie.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You see the pictures.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_02]: One who did it.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen the pictures

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_02]: David Bowie's seen the

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_02]: pictures.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen the pictures

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_02]: of Bradley Cooper.

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen the pictures.

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_01]: When people do the play they

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_01]: don't wear makeup they don't do

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_01]: a costume.

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all physical

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_01]: craft.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_02]: They also they slant one

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_02]: shoulder and they might hold

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_02]: a little cane.

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And they make a face that

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_02]: says I have a deformed skull.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I think Philip Anglim was

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_05]: the original John Merrick.

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_05]: On stage with David Bowie

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_05]: did it Bruce Davison did it

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_05]: later Oscar nominated character

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_05]: actor himself.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Senator Kelly.

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And then Mark Hamill did it

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_05]: in his yes he is Senator

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Kelly in the action movies.

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_01]: A squishy senator.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Mark Hamill did it as his

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Broadway debut in 1981.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's between Empire

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and Jedi.

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was it's just funny

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_05]: to think about that because

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_05]: right it's this hit that's

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_05]: simultaneous parallel.

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_05]: They don't have anything to

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_05]: with each other.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_05]: They're about the same thing.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Which you always are kind of

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_02]: were like oh they're

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_02]: growing up you're just like

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you know it's an

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_02]: adaptation of the play.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But like I don't think

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_01]: anyone says I am not an

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_01]: animal in the play.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_01]: No.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I admit I've never seen it.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Two works created entirely

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_01]: separately simultaneously

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and then this movie

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_01]: fascinatingly has a post

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_01]: script saying this had

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_01]: nothing to do with the play

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_01]: after the fact.

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Hadn't the book the study

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_02]: in human dignity hadn't that

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_02]: that was recent issue.

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Very recent for both.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think both are

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_05]: drawing from it a little bit.

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Have you seen the interview

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_05]: where Bradley Cooper is

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_05]: trying to talk to Jimmy

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Fallon about playing the

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_05]: elephant man and they

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_05]: cannot stop laughing for

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_05]: like 10 minutes.

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It's very funny.

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Wait a minute.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_02]: He can't stop laughing.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Both of them are clear.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_05]: They get into this Google

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_05]: thing.

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Fallon obviously like where

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_05]: old stone face.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Cooper.

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_05]: The Calvin Coolidge of

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_05]: late night Jimmy Fallon

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_02]: broke him.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_05]: No, it's more like

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Fallon breaks Cooper.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Like Cooper keeps trying to

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_05]: be like that's a

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_05]: obvious he had this

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_05]: physical deformity and then

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_05]: like he just clearly is

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_05]: like looking at Fallon

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_05]: space and can't stop

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_05]: laughing because he's trying

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_05]: to be serious and it's

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_05]: a silly situation.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I just found a Buck

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_05]: in Ham Palace.

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_01]: He'd be cracking those guys

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_01]: all those soldiers.

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that'd be great.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you picture Fallon

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_02]: goofing with Merrick?

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Have Merrick sit there on

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_02]: the couch.

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Could you imagine Merrick

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_01]: slow jamming the news?

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_01]: That was like I was trying

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_02]: to think of what you just

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_02]: did baby.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_05]: To be like, oh, let me

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_05]: reference a Fallon bit.

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I was just like,

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't really wonder his

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_05]: bits again.

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Slow jamming the news.

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I do remember that.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_02]: They play kids instruments.

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They make a beer

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_01]: long or something.

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We all have musical

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_01]: impressions that are really

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_01]: random and unplanned.

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_01]: There's like

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_05]: it's just one year people

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_05]: like this man has reinvented

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_05]: late night.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And then a year later

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_05]: it was like I cannot stand

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_05]: the sight of him.

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Was the universal opinion

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_05]: both.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, he's still going.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Still going.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_04]: He'll never stop.

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_04]: So I heard of really cool

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_04]: boss.

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_04]: who's chill?

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_05]: So

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Jonathan Sanger, who's one of

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_05]: the producers of this film

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_05]: with Mel Brooks,

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_05]: is working as

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I think an assistant director

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_05]: on high anxiety.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And his babysitter is like

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I wrote it.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_05]: My boyfriend wrote a script.

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_05]: You want to read it?

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Gives him the elephant man.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like your fucking

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_05]: boyfriend wrote this?

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_05]: This shit's unbelievable.

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_05]: He's impressed with the script.

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Apparently it was 200 pages,

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_05]: which seems almost surprising

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_05]: because this film is two

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_05]: hours long.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Every scene is

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_05]: dialogue heavy at all.

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Five seconds long.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and like it's a lot of

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_05]: which I love about it, you know, quiet

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_05]: silent.

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine even a good

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_01]: version of the script, the overwritten

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_01]: version that Lynch would come in

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and just you suspect this was his

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_02]: contribution, which I was not able to

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_02]: find anything about what he actually

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_02]: did other than probably adding

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_02]: all the stuff about the

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_02]: industrial age.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean that does feel like his

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_05]: addition.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_05]: But so both Sanger

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and Cornfield who are both sort of

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_05]: circling this love the idea of Lynch

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_05]: for this movie, but it's getting

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_05]: shopped all around town.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_05]: The play is kind of messing

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_05]: with the possible rights of it

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_05]: because the people who wrote

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_05]: the are putting on the player like we

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_05]: own the title the elephant man, which

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_05]: seems sort of specious to me, but I

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_05]: believe there was legal.

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And so they turn to Mel Brooks

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_05]: and Brooks found the script

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_05]: to be fascinating and he said let's

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_05]: do this, which I think surprised

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_05]: everybody because of course

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_01]: most people I think studio that

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry like the Brooks even

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_05]: wants to make a drama is interesting

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Mel Brooks makes funny films.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, he had already started Brooks

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_01]: films to produce fat.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So his company I have not seen

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_05]: funny right?

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a sadly funny.

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but it's more

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_01]: James L than Mel

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and comedic sensibility perhaps.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I've also been mean to see it,

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_01]: but I love Dom Dalloway's

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, who doesn't?

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You're out on Dom.

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_02]: If I said yes, what would I be saying

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_02]: that I like I

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_02]: for Fival floppy hats.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I like American

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_02]: tail. I don't know if I would say as a kid

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: what I like about this is the horse lap.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Of the Louise horse laughing.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't do it.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Is he just like he had the H.

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_04]: A. O. A. R. S.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like imagining he made a horse

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_04]: laugh.

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_04]: He was so funny that he made a horse

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_05]: laugh.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_05]: So right, everyone's in

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_01]: what was the name of his usual

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: production company?

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It was called Arrowhead.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Mountainhead something.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: He had his name for his own films.

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: He started Brooksfilm to be like I want

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to produce movies to help

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: people that aren't my sensibility.

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, right.

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: He's so he'd already created this label

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that was sort of just like I have other

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_01]: aspirations and he had talked about

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: this like I've

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_01]: heard him say this in interviews where he's like

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I think there are a lot of other films I could

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: have made as a director, but I accept it as

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: a certain point that my name was

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: too synonymous with the sensibility and

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_01]: people wouldn't expect certain things for me

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: crossbow production. Thank you.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I liked the idea of helping some will

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_01]: some of these films into existence.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_05]: So Mel Brooks

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_05]: is like who is David Lynch?

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_05]: He actually wants Alan Parker

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_05]: who had recently made Bugsy Malone.

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Makes a ton of sense. It makes some sense.

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Alan Parker's just going to be always

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean obviously he made the wall, right?

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like that's what probably is like the coolest

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_05]: thing he had done. Would have been a

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: logical other person

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: on the list to be like yeah this is an old

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of oh no you know what the wall's

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: after this. Midnight Express is what he's

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_01]: really coming off of. This is that era.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's 78.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously there's a

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah that's true. Bugsy Malone like I

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_05]: said you know like I don't know.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_05]: He's made movies I liked

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_05]: he makes stylish movies. I mean he's not

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I think Alan Parker's dad, right?

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_05]: He died fairly recently.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah 2020.

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: What I expressed was like a phenomenon. That's one of those

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: movies where when you watch like

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: sitcoms from that era. Yes it made

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Turkish prison the thing

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't want to be in every sitcom.

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's citing it all the time.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I always got it confused with Midnight Run.

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I did too. My brain

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: couldn't separate that these movies were different.

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Very different movies. Oh I later learned

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that but they weren't. The hard way.

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah well it was like

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: when I thought I was renting

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Midnight Cowboy and I actually

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: rented Urban Cowboy. Very different

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: movie. And I was like this is one of the greatest

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: films of all time like this movie is awful.

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah Urban Cowboy isn't great.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And I realize I rented the wrong movie.

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Great things like that used to happen.

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean so what's

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_05]: the wait what's the Matt Dillon

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_05]: movie. Drugstore Cowboy.

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you. Right I was like there's three Cowboy movies

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_05]: and I too would make this the mall.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Alright so

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Cornfeld is the one who's like it's got to be

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_05]: fucking David Lynch. Yeah. So Brooks is like

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_01]: fine all meet the guy. This was a religious

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_01]: experience for me that was the greatest film I'd

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: ever seen. I was committed to getting this

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: guy. Right. They meet

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Bob's big boys. A very linchy place

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_05]: to meet. It was the only place he

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_05]: ate for years.

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Brooks

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_05]: found him very polite.

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Thought he

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_05]: looked like Charles Lindbergh because he was wearing an

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_05]: aviators jacket.

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And they talked about sort of the

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_05]: outsider aspect of the story and that's how

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_05]: it was appealing and Lynch said I think this is a

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_05]: heartwarming story and Brooks

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_05]: liked that. And so then he goes

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_05]: to see a racer head

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and I think Cornfeld is like

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_05]: pacing like crazy being like well this is going

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_05]: to make Mel

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_05]: fire. Like be like no fuck

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_05]: what this guy are you crazy

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_05]: and instead the doors

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_05]: fly open. I mean the funny thing that

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Cornfeld says is like

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_05]: people are coming out right.

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Jonathan comes out so that's

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_05]: one of the other producers

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_05]: and has what he says is an OJ Simpson

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_05]: juror expression. Not sure what that means

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_05]: exactly. Stone face.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: He's clearly guilty.

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: He just couldn't read it.

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: This guy is guilty of making a great

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: cult film.

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_05]: The doors fly open and Mel

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_05]: runs out with his arms outstretched

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and embraces Cornfeld and

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch and says you're a mad man I love you

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_05]: you're in. His one line was

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: the best film I've ever seen about what it's like to have kids.

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard him talk in interviews

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: about seeing this movie and everyone was

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: like what an insane

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: object from Planet Nutball

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and that Mel watched it for the first time

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and was like there's clearly a real

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: filmmaker here. This isn't just

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: random shit happening.

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: The invisible craft of this movie

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: is so incredibly strong.

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: This guy isn't just some

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: outro artist who stumbled on

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: some provocative images.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Paramount agrees to distribute the film after it

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_05]: moves around for a while. NBC puts up

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_05]: four million dollars

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess in a deal that

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_05]: had Brooks agreeing to do some TV

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_01]: stuff for them. Yeah well Cornfeld was

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: like I've tried pitching this with Lynch

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and it wasn't going anywhere and Mel was like

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: they said no to you. They're not going to say no to me.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Mel Brooks was really good

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_01]: at using his celebrity as

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_01]: capital to get these movies made

[01:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and yeah it's just like to go into the

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: offices of NBC pre-sell the TV

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_01]: rights for this movie, get him to put

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: up a chunk of the budget and be like

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll make like seven TV appearances for next

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_01]: year that's so worth it

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: to them. Other than The Fly

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: what else does Brooks film do that he

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: doesn't want credit for? Francis

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_05]: which was like another kind of serious

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_05]: biographical you know thing

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_05]: that got Oscar attention with the Cheska

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Lang. My favorite

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_01]: year is obviously more his

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_05]: fun movie. But

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah you know that was an Oscar nominated

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: movie. It does start to fall apart. I mean it's like

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: 84 chair and crossroad which is like a

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: drama. Elephant man then obviously

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: he's doing his own movies within there

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: my favorite year is his kind of thing

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Francis to be or not to be the doctor

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and the devils, The Fly's solar babies

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and then it's basically back to

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: save for the fly to his movies. Well you're

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: forgetting The Vagrant

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_05]: the Bill Paxton

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_05]: horror film. Have you ever seen

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_05]: that? That feels like a Kim's video classic. I don't know what The Vagrant is.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Doctor and the Devils are that's Freddie

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Francis who would shot this movie. Yeah

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_05]: but so yeah you know it's like

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_05]: 84 chair and crossroad which is

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_05]: like that's an Ambankcroft movie.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Like he would obviously if she wanted to make something

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_05]: serious. But obviously of course

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_05]: famously he takes his name off this movie

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_05]: basically as much as he can so that people

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_05]: do not think Mel Brooks presents

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_05]: the elephant man. They think they're going in for a laugh

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_05]: riot about like a guy who never

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_05]: forgets and

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_05]: you know what else do elephants do?

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_05]: They eat a lot of peanuts. Right

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_05]: they see a mouse

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_05]: and they go ahhh

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: He cost himself an Oscar nomination right

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: for the good of the film. Yes yes because he is

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_05]: an uncredited producer it's just Jonathan

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: saying or something. I just think it's incredibly cool

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and I just love the like this and The Fly

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: are basically the

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: same narrative of he

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and Cornfeld finding these incredibly

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: interesting filmmakers and being like

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_01]: if you match that guy with that material

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: they can make a studio

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: picture that works and like

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: completely protected them and insulated

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: them and they made these incredible

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: fucking movies. About sad

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: monsters

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_01]: are shunned. Yeah. And movies

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: that no one else would have gotten made or

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: gotten made those ways. The um

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: the sort of I never thought this about this movie

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: before but like so everything it does narrative

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: you're describing which is now the way

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_02]: most things work. Uh huh. Like oh you made

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: this weirdo movie we're going to throw you

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: into the deep end. Right. Typically now

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_05]: this is. But that's actually not how it was

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_05]: done back then is what you're saying. No it would have been

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: much less common. Right. Kind of like

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: is other than

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_02]: somebody having the improbable

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_02]: foresight to be

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_02]: like I think the guy who made

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Meet the Feebles should make

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_02]: three one hundred million dollar movies

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: right. And then they'll probably be the three greatest

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you know franchise

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_02]: genre films. If there was nothing in between

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: if Meet the Feebles were his first film and then

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: he went straight to Lord of the Rings. I mean it's closer

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: to that like it is this is more

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_02]: like that than most other things where

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like okay the Frightners exists

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's not. Well in Heavenly Creatures

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Nascar not me. Yeah. But like that you don't see

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Lord of the Rings in Heavenly Creatures. Well

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_05]: you I would argue you do

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_05]: and we will talk about it when we do Peter Jackson

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_05]: but obviously yes it was an insane risk

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_05]: to take up the time it didn't make any

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_02]: sense. This just feels like

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_05]: but this is a smaller thing like the elephant man

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_05]: is not the Lord of the Rings.

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody was just like I really think

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_02]: this person's going to make the best version of this

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's also it is such a serious

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: minded movie that even if

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: the risk is not super high in terms of

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: like cost

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: it does feel like the kind of thing we're handing

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: this over to Lynch to a lot of people would seem

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: like if this goes wrong it goes horribly

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: wrong. The movie's embarrassing

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_01]: he delivers something in Kokkierant. It's

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_05]: like why do we hire the weirdo guy

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_05]: to do this? What would it be? It's we were

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: weirdo guy who lives at a Bob's

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Big Boy. Right. But now has anyone

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: committed to the bit harder than Lynch

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_05]: over their life? He commits to every bit

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_05]: like as hard as possible and then drops

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: it well as well. The Woody Woodpecker

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_01]: doll thing that gets recirculated like once

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: a year. Do you know this Ben? No.

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: He was like I was at a gas station

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a photo of him on a couch

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: surrounded by like eight identical Woody Woodpecker

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: stuffed animals. And they were like

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: what are these? And he's like these were my

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: sons I loved them with my whole heart

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I was at a gas station I

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_01]: saw them sitting there pegged in the

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: window and I said I need to free them

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_01]: they belong to me I must adopt

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: them and I carry them with them

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_01]: me everywhere they were like

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: my life my

[01:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: love and

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: what happened to them and it was like things didn't end well with them

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: after a couple years

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I got bad vibes and I had to give them away

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and he just tells the story

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_01]: very straight and you're just like

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: he commits. Commits? What is going on here?

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. I love

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: it though wait I'm obsessed

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_04]: you're absolutely right he commits

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_04]: to the bit. Yeah so hard

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_04]: even down to just he dresses so

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_04]: like the same

[01:10:08] [SPEAKER_04]: and he's always kind of had the same style

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen the red carpet

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: video of Abert talking to him at the Mulholland Drive Oscars?

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: No I just I'm sorry I need to read the Woody Woodpecker

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: thing directly it's two sentences but it's

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_02]: much better than my paraphrase. One tenth as long

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: as Griffin's version of it. Yes.

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's also exactly the same but let's hear it again.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: He rescued five Woody Woodpecker dolls from a petrol station

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: in 1981 so this is post-elephant

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: man. You just added a sentence.

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry. I screech on the brakes

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I do a U-turn go back and I buy them

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and I save their lives I name them Chuck

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: O Buster Pete Bob and Dan

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and they were my boys and they were in my

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_01]: office they were my dear friends for a while

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but certain traits started coming

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: out and they became not so nice

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: then looking straight ahead he added

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: with a grim finality they are not

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: in my life anymore.

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So what he means is like we redecorated

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and whatever one of my wives at the time

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: said can you please get rid of these stupid toys

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and she threw them out and I have to come up

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_02]: with some joke answer for what happened to them.

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_01]: But there were like ten photos of him with them

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: at different points in his life.

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. So none of you have seen the Mulholland Drive

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Oscars thing? No.

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing. So it's Ebert doing like

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Ebert's on the carpet

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and he walks up and he's like

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: David David

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_02]: when I saw this movie it can

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I asked you what it meant

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and he just he walks up and he's like

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: hello Roger

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I asked you what it meant and you said

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: if the movie is nominated for an Oscar

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you so David what does he

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_02]: what does it mean? Nominating for one Oscar.

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And Lynch just looks at him and he's like

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_02]: always nice to see you Roger.

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I have seen that.

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_05]: He walks away. I mean this is only one

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_05]: movie or movie from no it's two movies

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_05]: from Lost Highway you know

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_05]: the two thumbs down two great reasons

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: to see but that's really funny. He seemed like there's a lot of respect between them.

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_02]: No I think yeah.

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_02]: He just it's just hello Roger

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a very

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_02]: hello Newman like line reading. Mel

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Brooks wants to cast Dustin Hoffman

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_05]: he is convinced away from doing

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_05]: this with this sort of iconic line

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_05]: we're gonna always gonna be looking to see where the Elfman

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_05]: ends in Dawson Hoffman begins.

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Would have been awful.

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_05]: He would have been so over the top.

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch wants to cast Jack Nance

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: which makes sense is the one guy who

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: had been in a movie director.

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the only movie in Jack Nance's

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: lifetime that Lynch made

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_05]: that he was not in. Right but then he does

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_05]: see the very very very famous

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_05]: in Britain

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_05]: miniseries the Naked Civil Servant

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_05]: which is sort of like an early launch pad for John Hurt

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and was incredibly impressed by it

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_05]: funny to think about Lynch like

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_05]: taking in a clever British miniseries

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_05]: it's just so

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_03]: he's someone who can't reckon

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_05]: that guy just stands furniture and then you're like

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_05]: no someone sent him a DVD and he watched it

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I know it was the 70s so they sent up something else

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: but right like yeah

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: he's more I mean there's a Vulture

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_02]: interview from a few years ago that I reread

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: where someone was like oh yeah do you watch

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_02]: things like I watched a lot of true crime

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_02]: it's fascinating what these people do to

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_02]: each other out in the world

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: he's not wrong he just sits there

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_02]: he's like okay I'm done you know with

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: my woodworking my painting

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: my crazy clown time is over

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_02]: for the day time for some crazy Netflix true crime

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_02]: time he just sits there and watches this

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: dog shit the real crazy clown time

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_02]: look at that they killed another lady

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: he seems to just I mean he's

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: totally normal despite what he would

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: have you think but that's the magic of him

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_05]: but he's always like I am normal

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: he is the one being like no

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: like I'm normal

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the more normal the thing is he does

[01:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: the weirder it then becomes

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I brush

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: my teeth every morning

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: who the fuck is this guy

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_05]: a methodical madness from David Lynch

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_05]: John Hurt is of course

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_05]: one of the finest actors

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_05]: he's a wonderful actor

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_05]: he's nominated for Midnight Express

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_05]: speaking of Midnight Express at the 1979 Oscars

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_05]: he's busy shooting Heaven's Gate

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_05]: which is taking so

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_05]: fucking long that he made

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_05]: this movie in between like bits

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_05]: of Heaven's Gate this whole ass movie

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_05]: where he's covered in makeup

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_05]: it's not like he does like three scenes in this thing

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_05]: you know

[01:14:12] [SPEAKER_05]: he's wonderful

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch says I don't know anyone better

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_05]: like I wanted him because he's a real actor

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_05]: and he got right into the role

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_05]: and but he just I think really loves

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_05]: the guy as a guy too

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Brooks and Cornfield wisely were like

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: beyond just is this

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe is this performance out of

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Jack Nance's ability

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: it's also like we need to push him

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit outside of his comfort zone

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah right give him someone who works with

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_05]: someone different where's Hopkins come

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_05]: the original choice for to play

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Frederick Treves is that he said the name

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Treese

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_05]: is Alan Bates who's a wonderful actor

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_05]: to wear a beard nicely

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_05]: absolutely and be English

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and honestly I do think

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_05]: he's a what I love Alan Bates and he can be like very

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_05]: compassionate like he's a little

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_05]: earthier than some of these guys

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Hopkins comes in late apparently

[01:15:02] [SPEAKER_05]: and they

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: didn't get along

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_05]: it's the one guy he flashed with

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_05]: yes I think Hopkins

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_05]: who there's lots of stories about him

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_05]: being a pretty tricky customer

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_05]: like throughout his career

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_05]: like now he posts videos of listening

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_05]: to jazz and he's 90 years old and you love the guy

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_05]: but like I think human Lynch's

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: online personas have really met

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_02]: they're coming together

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: be followed old men sitting

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: in their house playing with their webcam

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: but I think

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Hopkins is the one who was like I was rooting

[01:15:33] [SPEAKER_05]: because I was like who the fuck is this guy he's made one movie

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: 10 years ago I re-washed and thought it was a masterpiece

[01:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and I sent him a letter but yeah

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: he was just like this guy doesn't seem like a director

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: he doesn't seem like anyone I've worked

[01:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: with before he doesn't have the credit

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_05]: strange yes like how old is Lynch when he makes

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_05]: this film this is 19th

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_05]: like he's probably let's say he's making in 79

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_05]: he's like

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_05]: 32 like he's this like young

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_05]: American guy with this like sort of twangy accent

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_05]: he's making this Tony British

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_05]: movie a guy with real

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_05]: he couldn't have been 32 right he was born

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_05]: in 46 how old is you know

[01:16:05] [SPEAKER_05]: he was 33 yeah wow

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I mean you know it's movies a little old

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_02]: right I just thought that

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_05]: by the time Eraserhead was finished he was older

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_05]: but no he wasn't really

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_05]: and like yeah he kind

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_05]: of got to making movies fairly quick in a way

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_05]: like he goes through AFI and stuff and takes him a while

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_05]: but apparently yeah Hopkins was the one

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_05]: who would fight him be like my character wouldn't do that

[01:16:27] [SPEAKER_05]: or whatever which Lynch said

[01:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: like codified for him

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I am never making a movie where

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't originate the characters

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: again because I don't ever want to be in a

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: situation where an actor tells me

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: my character wouldn't do that right

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I want to be able to be like yeah like

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_05]: no no no I know what the character does do what I say

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_05]: right yes

[01:16:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I think Hopkins is

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_05]: incredible in this movie

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_05]: he is so good like and he is do you

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah he's amazing yeah like

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_02]: there's nothing not amazing about this movie

[01:16:55] [SPEAKER_05]: this movie is perfect I mean like basically

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_05]: but it's also like you know I'm less

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_05]: passionate about this film than you two guys but I also have no fault

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_02]: it was confusing it was always confusing to realize

[01:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: oh that's Anthony Hopkins

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: like a long time before

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Hannibal Lecture

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't think of him as existing

[01:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: prior to that if you're a kid I remember

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: a friend of mine

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: watching this in high school and saying

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_01]: like it genuinely looks like it's from

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_01]: the 40s and I was yeah they did a good job

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: approximating it and they were like the fact

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_01]: that Anthony Hopkins is in it breaks my brain

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit because so like

[01:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: this friend of mine they're just like they don't know

[01:17:29] [SPEAKER_01]: who Anne Bancroft is John Hertz caked

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: under makeup this is the only modern

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_01]: recognizable actor in the movie even

[01:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: though he's much younger it is undeniably

[01:17:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Anthony Hopkins is there any way

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_05]: you would know it was John Hurt if you weren't told

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_05]: like no right like the voice and the face

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: not the most recognizable

[01:17:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I find him very recognizable

[01:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: well he is because no one's ever looked

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: like him but right and even he has

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_01]: incredibly distinctive eyes

[01:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: but I don't think those eyes are even

[01:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: directly recognizable within that makeup

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_01]: it is such a fully

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: transformative performance and I don't want to get ahead

[01:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: of ourselves here but like it is

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: a performance that really makes me think

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: about like what is acting

[01:18:08] [SPEAKER_01]: because on paper it

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_01]: defies logic that as much

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: of what he's doing comes across

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_05]: right this is a classic

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_05]: just the makeup is so impressive

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and you're kind of being taken in by that

[01:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: right it is it is a character it is a man

[01:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: who lives within a set of extreme restrictions

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and by the nature of

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_01]: the movie they're imposing

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_01]: similar restrictions upon the actor

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that are in theory just

[01:18:32] [SPEAKER_01]: masking and like burying

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_01]: anything he's trying to do

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and his voice is obstructed and his face is

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: obstructed he has this makeup that's not only

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: so comprehensive but is

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_01]: on purpose immovable

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: like it does not have flexibility

[01:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and there's so many scenes where he doesn't

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_01]: speak there's so many scenes where he is

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: wearing a bag on top of makeup

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: on top of his head cool look

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_01]: the bag is a cooler energy coming off

[01:18:56] [SPEAKER_01]: of him in every single shot

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_01]: that is so palpable and real

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and deeply felt it's very

[01:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: it's very like you think

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: of these physical performances yeah

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_02]: that someone could give

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_02]: within a bag

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: yes and his body you know

[01:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: he created a body language that

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_02]: the body language is heart breaking

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: yes he created a voice

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: that despite David's attempts to clown on it

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: which are insensitive

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: at best I really don't appreciate how David started this episode

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: our

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: the voice is heart breaking

[01:19:28] [SPEAKER_01]: heart breaking and

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: it is such there was so much

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_01]: effort behind the voice that's why it's heart break

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_01]: the first scene he tries to talk

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: you're sitting there and you're going I can't

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: make it through this movie

[01:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: this is gonna be too painful to watch this guy

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: try to communicate for two hours

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_02]: but he does this thing that

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of is like

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: what's magic about something like my left foot

[01:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: although that's much more showy

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_02]: obviously it's like

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: he does so much with the one hand

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: he has that I think

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: the key to what's transcendent

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: is the moments where you see him

[01:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: straightening his garments

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: on the back of the hook with his good hand

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: or at the very end of the movie where he

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: brushes off his sheets before laying down

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: with his good hand he realizes

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: like I basically have one appendage

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: to sell to people like the full

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: physicality of what I can bring to this

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and he over does it with the hands

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: so much that you're like this is a full performance

[01:20:23] [SPEAKER_02]: like he's doing everything and

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really only and then the eye

[01:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: which you really only see one of

[01:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: the scene where the goons storm in

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and overtake him he plays the entire

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: scene with his eyes closed

[01:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: which is understandable he's being attacked

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but you're like taking out of

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the equation his one

[01:20:40] [SPEAKER_01]: quality is one physical attribute

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that is actually nakedly visible to the audience

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's so visible that it's shut

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: yes that you're reading

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: so much more into the performance with just an eye

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah and it is

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_01]: an astonishing performance he's calibrated

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: every choice to within

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_02]: like the five

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_02]: tools he has right and the very nature of

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: like does it matter who's underneath the

[01:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: elephant man suit you're barely gonna

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: understand what he's saying and he's caked under

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_01]: makeup how would the performance register like Hoffman

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_02]: would have been bad at it Hoffman is

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: the perfect example of someone who'd be

[01:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: bad and the argument by the way which is also

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: sounds like a critic joke the argument for what

[01:21:18] [SPEAKER_01]: he's doing in the performance is basically

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_01]: like the story the movie is trying to tell

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_01]: about the man right of like slowly

[01:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: forcing yourself to engage with the

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_01]: spirit of the person underneath this thing

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: can you imagine what circus would do with

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: this and mocap

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_02]: the mind reels I mean

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I I just like to imagine what like Bradley

[01:21:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Cooper would do with this like making a face

[01:21:40] [SPEAKER_05]: that's the thing I want to see

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_05]: some kind of a face

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah you guys David's doing the face

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_05]: um Freddie Jones who I also think

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_05]: is very good in this film and then

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_05]: is later in dune

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_05]: as the you know initial

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_05]: uh

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_05]: minder you know the

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah he runs the side show yes exactly

[01:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah he explains the side show

[01:22:01] [SPEAKER_05]: doesn't want to do the movie because he's like I think this is

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_05]: to one note one note this character is just

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_05]: like the person who is mean to the elephant

[01:22:07] [SPEAKER_05]: man and Lynch says you're right right Lynch

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_05]: is like yeah we should deepen him a little bit

[01:22:11] [SPEAKER_05]: we should like get a little more like he does

[01:22:13] [SPEAKER_05]: have some

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_05]: like limited patronizing affection for

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_05]: this person like it's not

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_05]: particularly positive but they incorporate

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_05]: that which is nice

[01:22:22] [SPEAKER_05]: John Gilgit Lynch says the guy's a saint father of

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Toby Jones by the way is that right is that

[01:22:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Freddie Jones you know

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_03]: the Brits they're always making actors are always

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: making actors actors be making actors him

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and the

[01:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you know the Cole shoveler guy who brings

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_02]: the people around yeah to Merrick's room

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean as we discussed with clockwork

[01:22:42] [SPEAKER_02]: orange like you know in my mind is

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_02]: growing up I was like all British men are

[01:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: must be like this they're just like no

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_02]: sniffling cockney drunken

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a man you when I guess I was right

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_05]: there's two kind there's the John

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Gilgit type it's like hello I'm always

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_05]: in a tuxedo and I know the queen right

[01:22:59] [SPEAKER_05]: and then there's a guy's like oh govna

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I eat rocks for breakfast

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_04]: it's a talking piece of coal

[01:23:06] [SPEAKER_03]: salt is disgusting to me too spicy

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I just like the footy

[01:23:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and bovril I just

[01:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: always think of the SNL

[01:23:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the British toothpaste

[01:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: commercial where's the toothpaste

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_01]: with sugar

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: to get people to British people to want it

[01:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: brush their teeth for the first time

[01:23:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and they cut to a

[01:23:27] [SPEAKER_01]: clump of Chris Farley

[01:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: with giant mutton chops

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and the worst Austin Powers teeth

[01:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and everyone's singing the praises of this toothbrush

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and that just cuts to Farley and goes

[01:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and it tastes great on a cracker

[01:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and he squeezes the toothpaste

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: on a cracker

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: so I remember this one of the funniest things ever

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch I think very impressed

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_05]: with Gilgit he liked that he had

[01:23:48] [SPEAKER_05]: custom made cigarettes and custom

[01:23:50] [SPEAKER_05]: made oval boxes

[01:23:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean obviously David Lynch loved cigarettes

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_05]: so he was probably like check out John Gilgit's

[01:23:56] [SPEAKER_03]: cigarette game

[01:23:59] [SPEAKER_05]: he's excellent in this file

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Dexter Fletcher

[01:24:02] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah baby

[01:24:03] [SPEAKER_05]: he bites his boy

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_02]: what did Onnes say at the end she goes

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Dexter Fletcher from lockstock

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_05]: she's not wrong

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I said I couldn't have pulled that out

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: but yeah he's currently you know director

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: rocket man

[01:24:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I was trying to just

[01:24:18] [SPEAKER_05]: what's his character's name in lockstock does anyone know

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Honolwood she loves that movie

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: like she was a teenage boy

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: in England but as I was

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_05]: soap he's called soap

[01:24:28] [SPEAKER_05]: my friend was going to see lockstock

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_05]: because he's filthy

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_05]: probably it was fucking

[01:24:34] [SPEAKER_05]: soap

[01:24:36] [SPEAKER_05]: it was going to see lockstock and I was trying to explain to her

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_05]: like before she saw it

[01:24:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I was like you have to understand this was

[01:24:43] [SPEAKER_05]: cool yeah it might not seem

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_05]: cool now I have no idea how that movie goes over

[01:24:48] [SPEAKER_05]: with like no context

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_03]: with the slang glossary

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_05]: but you have to understand it was like no one had done this

[01:24:53] [SPEAKER_05]: for 20 years and it was like

[01:24:55] [SPEAKER_05]: it's cool again to have like

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_05]: cockney gangsters wearing like big coats

[01:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: short type hat lovely top leaves what's your

[01:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: fucking line

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: well Dexter he's a great looking boy and I mean he's like

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_02]: a you know a little kid actor

[01:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: he has a great little great little urchin

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: just wild to think about him getting to be on this

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: set when he was like nine and I said on Wikipedia

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_02]: this might be not fact checkable that he was

[01:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: like he would have been Ronnie

[01:25:17] [SPEAKER_05]: he was definitely part of one

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_05]: version of Ronnie rocket that was once

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_05]: put together vaguely

[01:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: just because Lynch had worked with him an amazing

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_01]: film school to get to experience as a boy

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and you see the fingerprints of that experience

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_01]: all over ghosted

[01:25:30] [SPEAKER_05]: right and

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_05]: apparently Alex it's

[01:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: indescribable how proud of himself Griffin looks right now

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_05]: he loves to he loves to mention ghosted

[01:25:40] [SPEAKER_05]: a film I

[01:25:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I watched in my brain like

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_05]: put like a sort of black hole warp around

[01:25:46] [SPEAKER_05]: like that is like actually

[01:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: the whole cast in this is incredible

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and Bencroft is like

[01:25:52] [SPEAKER_01]: astonishing two scenes

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: yes

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Kenny Baker

[01:25:56] [SPEAKER_05]: she should have been

[01:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: a little too small of a performance

[01:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Kenny Baker it's really nice

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: very happy to see him when he shows up

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Ben the little person

[01:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: who is the one who like leads

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: freeing Merrick

[01:26:11] [SPEAKER_01]: he's dressed like a mid-age big

[01:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: big goofy hat feather in it is R2D2

[01:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: that's R2D2 oh wow

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_02]: he's in time bandits too right he had a lot of live

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: action roles now we gave him

[01:26:21] [SPEAKER_05]: question marks on every single performance

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_05]: review of our Star Wars miniseries

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and Anthony Daniels was always very catty when he was

[01:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: alive where he's like I'm an actor he's in a

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_05]: fucking bin like what does this guy do but he's

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: like there's one he's great in this there's a thousand

[01:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: lines in this movie that are heartbreaking but when

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: he's like good luck who needs it more than us

[01:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: more than we even it's just yeah that's

[01:26:39] [SPEAKER_01]: an incredible line and he just look he gives him

[01:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: when he like comes up to the cage and he's like we're

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: gonna get you out of here is just

[01:26:44] [SPEAKER_01]: immediately devastated his great face that guy

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: has a great I can't everyone in this movie

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: so sad it's really an incredible

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: feat for someone who'd not worked

[01:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: with professional actors it's just the word

[01:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I keep coming back to it is such a wildly

[01:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: unsanimental film

[01:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: for a movie being so deep with feeling but

[01:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: he's very I mean that's what's great about

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: the alchemy is that he's clearly not a sentimental

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: filmmaker even though he loves melodrama

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and is often perverting melodrama

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: in many of his movies

[01:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and the humanist

[01:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: streak of him is so

[01:27:15] [SPEAKER_02]: alive in this film and straight story

[01:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: but even at the end of Blue Velvet which is a

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: violent unpleasant movie it's like there's beauty

[01:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: in this world

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: classic bag like he yeah that's

[01:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: well that's the most beautiful thing in the

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: world that's what they're looking at they're not looking at the robotic

[01:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: bird but you know he

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: he believes in this beauty in the world and I think

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: this soot filled

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_02]: gas lit movie

[01:27:37] [SPEAKER_02]: is beautiful to him

[01:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and therefore he makes it beautiful for us rather

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: than

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: a more traditional Victorian thing where it's like

[01:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah it's dingy and gross

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and everyone's kind of ill and these

[01:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: cockney guys are coughing on

[01:27:51] [SPEAKER_02]: each other and there's the freak

[01:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: show and everyone like it's very beautiful

[01:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: because he wants it to be

[01:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: it's Hannah Gordon is so goodness an actor

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not very familiar with who plays

[01:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Treeves wife and there

[01:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: is the scene where he brings Merrick over

[01:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Merrick complements her

[01:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and she just basically breaks

[01:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: down hysterically crying at

[01:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the recognition of what a sensitive soul

[01:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: he is right I mean that's my read on that

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: scene well there's like 15 scenes in this

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: movie where someone eight of which are Merrick

[01:28:21] [SPEAKER_02]: just burst into tears

[01:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: at the slightest hint of

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_02]: vulnerability compassion yeah

[01:28:26] [SPEAKER_02]: which is like empathy it's very

[01:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: melodramatic here but like that is a linch

[01:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: that's all the emotion

[01:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: half of Twin Peaks is women bursting into

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: tears uncontrollably and

[01:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Mulholland Drive is women bursting into tears

[01:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: people randomly expressing

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: extreme emotion is really

[01:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: common in all of his movies well the first

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: 30 minutes of this movie is every character

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: who comes across him being like I

[01:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: hope he is dumb

[01:28:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope he is not

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_05]: it would almost be better if he was not even

[01:28:54] [SPEAKER_05]: cognizant of like what's happening

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_05]: here right and so any

[01:28:58] [SPEAKER_01]: time that he like finally

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: starts to indicate to

[01:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: people around the song

[01:29:03] [SPEAKER_01]: of not just like consciousness but intelligence

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and beyond that sensitivity

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: it is like

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_01]: overwhelming to people to consider

[01:29:12] [SPEAKER_01]: fuck and he's had to live this way

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_02]: his whole life and then there's like an hour

[01:29:15] [SPEAKER_02]: of people just being nice to him yeah

[01:29:17] [SPEAKER_05]: the movie is a people being

[01:29:19] [SPEAKER_05]: mean to him for a bit then nice for a while

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_05]: then mean again for a bit and then

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_05]: nice again but it's the end of his life

[01:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah it's very

[01:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: sensitively done which is why I was like

[01:29:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I love everything about this

[01:29:32] [SPEAKER_02]: everything you're saying is valuable and fascinating

[01:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: the content of the movie

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: is very

[01:29:37] [SPEAKER_02]: there's not a lot of it there's not much

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: we could just list everything that's great

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_05]: about every scene well of course we can

[01:29:43] [SPEAKER_05]: and we may but like like yeah right

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_05]: what is the plot of this movie is like he

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_05]: is rescued right from

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_05]: very very ignominious situation

[01:29:51] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah he's treated with more

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_05]: care and thought the halfway

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_01]: point of this movie basically almost

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I didn't take a stopwatch to it but I think

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_01]: right about the halfway point is

[01:30:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Merrick saying trees there's something I mean to ask

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you am I can you hear me

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and he's like no

[01:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: ten I mean it's just one of the best moments

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_05]: for you yes but he says

[01:30:11] [SPEAKER_05]: like we can care for you yes like and

[01:30:13] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like yes that's what they have to but he just says oh

[01:30:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought not right it's just it's heartbreak

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: it's incredible like there's it is I don't

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: again like who knows what the writing or the rewriting

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: was but the script is

[01:30:23] [SPEAKER_02]: every scene has some line in it that's just a

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_02]: perfectly distilled

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: gut punch of

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: sentimentality that is not played in like

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: a tree clean manner

[01:30:33] [SPEAKER_05]: okay Griffin let me talk because I think I know

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[01:33:02] [SPEAKER_05]: prize picks run your game

[01:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: where is Hopkins at in his career

[01:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: he's just a magic

[01:33:10] [SPEAKER_01]: which is a big film for him in terms of

[01:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: like his biggest leading man role

[01:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: at that point

[01:33:14] [SPEAKER_05]: it's kind of a flop but it's like Richard Amber movie

[01:33:17] [SPEAKER_05]: it's written by William Goldman yes it is about a scary puppet

[01:33:20] [SPEAKER_05]: are you familiar with this film

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Ben it's Anthony Hopkins

[01:33:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and a scary ventriloquist dummy that looks like Anthony Hopkins

[01:33:26] [SPEAKER_05]: it's kind of like slappy origins

[01:33:28] [SPEAKER_01]: the rumor has been that

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Sam Raimi is going to remake it although there hasn't been any news on that in a while

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's a horror movie

[01:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a horror movie directed

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_01]: by the man who did Gandhi

[01:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and played John Hammond in Jurassic Park

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: with young Anthony Hopkins

[01:33:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and a very terrifying looking

[01:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Anthony Hopkins puppet

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I find puppets ventriloquist puppets

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_04]: really scary

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_04]: then you would be very scared by the movie magic

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_04]: most people love those guys

[01:33:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I think they're coming back

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Ben it could be your new thing

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Ben it's like I got a little

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: puppet that looks like me that I put on my lap

[01:34:02] [SPEAKER_02]: that I carry him around

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to get over my fear

[01:34:05] [SPEAKER_04]: by embracing it

[01:34:06] [SPEAKER_01]: outside of that it's right like supporting roles in Lion and Winter

[01:34:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Hamlet of course was in Hamlet with Nicole Williamson

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_01]: who listeners may remember

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_05]: most famous

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_05]: oh go ahead

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: for his most famous role

[01:34:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Cagliostro in the 1997 motion picture

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Spawn

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_05]: so he's actually pretty good in Spawn

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_01]: his final performance he's incredible

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_05]: no like Hopkins right he's a reliable supporting actor

[01:34:30] [SPEAKER_05]: and big theater guy

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_05]: his movie credits he has good ones

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_05]: like Looking Glass War

[01:34:35] [SPEAKER_05]: or you know like you know um

[01:34:37] [SPEAKER_05]: he was in a dolls house I just watched that

[01:34:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Looking Glass War the Frank Pearson one

[01:34:43] [SPEAKER_02]: not a good movie it's okay

[01:34:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I would say thought it was

[01:34:46] [SPEAKER_02]: a very mediocre but he's kind of a company

[01:34:48] [SPEAKER_05]: too far but like but then he has

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_05]: quite a robust TV

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_05]: a movie career like he had been the star

[01:34:54] [SPEAKER_05]: of this big war and peace miniseries

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_05]: there was a big deal blah blah blah right

[01:34:57] [SPEAKER_05]: but yes he is not like

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_05]: a famous

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_05]: name in America I would say

[01:35:03] [SPEAKER_05]: he's maybe just kind of approaching that

[01:35:05] [SPEAKER_05]: and then his whole 80s is more

[01:35:07] [SPEAKER_05]: of what we're talking about like well below

[01:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and Alan Bates in terms of recognizable

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_05]: definitely because Alan Bates is in like big movies

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but this like levels him up seriously

[01:35:15] [SPEAKER_01]: but even then no it's really

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: between 80 and 91

[01:35:20] [SPEAKER_01]: it's like oh the guy

[01:35:21] [SPEAKER_01]: is officially like made himself

[01:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: a proven actor but he is not

[01:35:25] [SPEAKER_01]: at the tier of guy he becomes

[01:35:28] [SPEAKER_01]: until silence immediately makes him

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_01]: legendary he's still a TV guy like he wanted

[01:35:31] [SPEAKER_05]: to have me for playing Hitler

[01:35:33] [SPEAKER_05]: in like 1981 nice work

[01:35:35] [SPEAKER_05]: if you can get it and like

[01:35:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I would say The Bounty which is

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_05]: not a very good movie the Donaldson movie

[01:35:41] [SPEAKER_05]: with Mel Gibson is like maybe his biggest

[01:35:43] [SPEAKER_05]: starring role where he's Bly he's sort

[01:35:45] [SPEAKER_05]: of the villain right

[01:35:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Silent Slam is completely different which

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_05]: is why his career in Silent Slam is interesting

[01:35:51] [SPEAKER_05]: of like

[01:35:53] [SPEAKER_05]: like

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_05]: let's me now we have to turn this

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_05]: sort of late 40s actor

[01:35:58] [SPEAKER_05]: right into a mega star

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_05]: and he's like 20th choice for him

[01:36:02] [SPEAKER_01]: playing a guy who already

[01:36:04] [SPEAKER_01]: is going to play by another guy in a flop

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_05]: movie right now the thing

[01:36:08] [SPEAKER_05]: that you may not know Griffin that I

[01:36:10] [SPEAKER_01]: didn't know Alex just went to the bathroom

[01:36:11] [SPEAKER_01]: let's hope the toilet makes it through intact

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_05]: is that David Lynch

[01:36:16] [SPEAKER_05]: wanted to do the makeup for this

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_05]: film yes I saw this

[01:36:20] [SPEAKER_05]: and they were kind of

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_05]: you're directing the film you're going to be pretty busy

[01:36:24] [SPEAKER_05]: but he's like let me take a crack at it

[01:36:26] [SPEAKER_01]: to the eraser head model of like

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I am an artist I make all the things

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_05]: he starts working on a suit that he refers to

[01:36:32] [SPEAKER_05]: as organic

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_05]: he said it wasn't really a suit it was layers

[01:36:36] [SPEAKER_05]: of stuff it just would have needed some blending

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_05]: with John Hurt every day yeah I mean

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_01]: his idea was to limit application time

[01:36:42] [SPEAKER_01]: by making a thing that was a little more

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: piecemeal on and off and then you're

[01:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: just actually blending the pieces into the

[01:36:48] [SPEAKER_01]: flesh rather than needing to apply

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: a bunch of different layers

[01:36:51] [SPEAKER_01]: at a certain point everyone had to be like

[01:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I think they put it on him yes they put

[01:36:55] [SPEAKER_05]: something on him yeah Lynch says

[01:36:57] [SPEAKER_05]: it was kind of a disaster is like concrete

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_05]: he couldn't really move around in it and

[01:37:02] [SPEAKER_05]: to everyone's relief Lynch was like

[01:37:04] [SPEAKER_05]: okay well I tried and like

[01:37:05] [SPEAKER_05]: backed off the makeup apparently it

[01:37:08] [SPEAKER_05]: shook his confidence astounding in this

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_01]: yes it is a while

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like how does not get a makeup nomination then

[01:37:13] [SPEAKER_01]: you remember it's before that was a thing

[01:37:15] [SPEAKER_01]: they created the makeup category at the Oscars

[01:37:17] [SPEAKER_05]: in response to this film yeah

[01:37:19] [SPEAKER_05]: yes and like people were kind of like why

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_05]: can't it win an award and they're like well we don't

[01:37:23] [SPEAKER_05]: have one I guess we'll make one

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_05]: so but apparently it did

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_05]: fuck him up he was upset that he couldn't pull this

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_05]: off they didn't have to rearrange the entire schedule

[01:37:31] [SPEAKER_05]: so they shoot everything without John Hurt first

[01:37:33] [SPEAKER_05]: so they can figure out the makeup yeah

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_01]: your classic kind of

[01:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of movies we covered like this RoboCop

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and Predator and whatever like oh shit

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_05]: some injury right yeah

[01:37:43] [SPEAKER_05]: has made this change yes

[01:37:45] [SPEAKER_05]: RoboCop it's well enough being able to use the suit

[01:37:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Mel Gibb Mone Brooks calls David and says

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I want you to know we're behind you a thousand

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_05]: percent calms him down yeah

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I think they love

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_01]: about the makeup is there is a quality of

[01:37:57] [SPEAKER_01]: it feeling like the

[01:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: cocktail version of

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: how they would realize this character

[01:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a certain degree of like

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: conscious I wouldn't even say artificiality

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: but like a more

[01:38:09] [SPEAKER_01]: classical technique than

[01:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: even what prosthetics were in 1980

[01:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: sure

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: it took seven hours to put on

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: believe it every day

[01:38:19] [SPEAKER_05]: yep I wondered watching it

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_02]: yes does get to you know

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that makes sense if it's the whole body

[01:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: but since a lot of the movie right

[01:38:27] [SPEAKER_05]: it's just the face I do wonder

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know did they put on like

[01:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you know the entire neck

[01:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: to waste yeah they just say

[01:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: he was there like a sort of dummy version

[01:38:37] [SPEAKER_02]: of that that could be put on easily

[01:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: that provided the same shit but even in my experience

[01:38:42] [SPEAKER_01]: even if it cut the time down

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: it still would take several hours to put on

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_01]: all the pieces even if there aren't the pieces

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that need to play on camera hurt with the

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_05]: unfun hurt would only shoot every other day

[01:38:51] [SPEAKER_05]: okay you get to set a 5 a.m.

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_05]: he would sit for seven hours he would

[01:38:55] [SPEAKER_05]: sip raw eggs mixed

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_05]: with orange juice because he couldn't like eat anything

[01:38:59] [SPEAKER_05]: look it doesn't look easy but it's one of those

[01:39:01] [SPEAKER_01]: things where I was watching this noon till 10

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and I was like if you are someone like John

[01:39:05] [SPEAKER_01]: hurt with that level of emotional intelligence

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and skill and obviously

[01:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: just like a

[01:39:11] [SPEAKER_01]: innate empathy right

[01:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: it must have been really easy to get there

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: like you go through the seven hours

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: to get into this physical form

[01:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and then it's like so much

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: of what's motivating your character is

[01:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: the actual physical limitations

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: that have been placed upon you

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_02]: at this point been anything comparable

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: because now you hear

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_02]: eight hours in the makeup chair

[01:39:33] [SPEAKER_02]: transform you know whatever

[01:39:35] [SPEAKER_02]: to make a clump

[01:39:36] [SPEAKER_02]: for example takes about eight hours

[01:39:38] [SPEAKER_02]: where was that process at this time

[01:39:41] [SPEAKER_02]: because I really obviously

[01:39:43] [SPEAKER_02]: there are things like that there's your little

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_02]: big men there's things

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: that are like oh wow but even you know

[01:39:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like that process

[01:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: as you're saying there's no award for it

[01:39:52] [SPEAKER_02]: it's basically a brand new thing of like

[01:39:54] [SPEAKER_02]: we can put so much on you

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that it takes a day to do it

[01:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: it is hard to think of another movie

[01:40:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that predates this

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_01]: in which like your primary character

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_01]: is this fully transformed

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_01]: for the entire running time

[01:40:10] [SPEAKER_01]: where it's not even like

[01:40:12] [SPEAKER_02]: well as on a reference and as the movie

[01:40:14] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of does with the train station scene

[01:40:16] [SPEAKER_02]: you have like your Frankenstein

[01:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: is that very very truly

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but those characters in those forms

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: or in those movies less than you remember

[01:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and they also were like a ton of stuff

[01:40:26] [SPEAKER_01]: 15 minutes of a 70 minute

[01:40:28] [SPEAKER_01]: right and then it's like a costume

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: with some padding you know

[01:40:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that's close that's close I guess

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_02]: but there's 50 years in between

[01:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: that process and I thought about Frankenstein

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_02]: when he knocks the little girl over before screaming

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: the line that you said earlier

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_01]: this movie feels very

[01:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: influenced by James Whale

[01:40:45] [SPEAKER_02]: which seems like one of the few

[01:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: types of films or filmmakers at Lynch would allow himself

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_02]: to acknowledge as having seen

[01:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I've never heard him say it but this film has that

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: energy

[01:40:56] [SPEAKER_05]: that's interesting yeah

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_05]: he says he used the black and white kind of

[01:40:59] [SPEAKER_05]: you know

[01:41:01] [SPEAKER_05]: for obvious reasons he thinks color is too vivid

[01:41:03] [SPEAKER_05]: too real like it helps you

[01:41:05] [SPEAKER_05]: feel like you're in the past

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_05]: obviously it was what he had worked with on

[01:41:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Eraserhead so he's

[01:41:11] [SPEAKER_05]: more used to it

[01:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's strange that he doesn't

[01:41:16] [SPEAKER_02]: he's a black and white guy in my mind

[01:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: from the power of the shorts

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Eraserhead this

[01:41:21] [SPEAKER_05]: the return episode 8

[01:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: becomes kind of almost his return to black and white

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_05]: it's so well to think of him going straight

[01:41:28] [SPEAKER_05]: from this to full color

[01:41:29] [SPEAKER_05]: dune

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_05]: it is I mean it's crazy to think of

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah it is

[01:41:34] [SPEAKER_05]: it's crazy to think of him making dune

[01:41:38] [SPEAKER_02]: it's all crazy because

[01:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: of how much he's mythologized

[01:41:41] [SPEAKER_05]: in culture and how much he's

[01:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: helped that mythology

[01:41:44] [SPEAKER_05]: this young gun that a lot of people on the set are like

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_05]: who's this guy and by the end they kind of have more

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_05]: grudging respect and

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Kurt says like I think he grew as an artist

[01:41:53] [SPEAKER_01]: by his own account has some doubt if he can

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_01]: pull it off and all of that

[01:41:57] [SPEAKER_01]: but this movie opens with like

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_01]: um

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know like three minutes of

[01:42:03] [SPEAKER_01]: like audio visual poetry

[01:42:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that feels very much like the opening of Eraserhead

[01:42:07] [SPEAKER_02]: it's something that when you come back to this

[01:42:09] [SPEAKER_02]: movie for the second or third time

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you're like oh this really

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_02]: because you spend the intervening years watching

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: the rest of his movies you're like

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Elephant Man is kind of an outlier

[01:42:18] [SPEAKER_02]: then you put it back on in the beginning

[01:42:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you're like this feels exactly like a David Lynch movie

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_01]: right industrial noise

[01:42:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and slow motion footage of elephants

[01:42:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and Angel of Women

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_01]: always in my head there's so much more

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and there's not but again there's this

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of extremely

[01:42:35] [SPEAKER_02]: unpleasant soundtracks

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: screaming of this woman

[01:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: again a very Lynch sound effect

[01:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: to just have this vague sense of terror

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: piercing into the movie

[01:42:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I also like that he's thinking about because

[01:42:46] [SPEAKER_05]: obviously the whole thing with

[01:42:48] [SPEAKER_05]: uh John slash Joseph Merrick is like

[01:42:50] [SPEAKER_05]: we to this day don't

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_05]: totally know what was up with him

[01:42:54] [SPEAKER_05]: they now think he had this thing called

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Proteus Symptom which is like an incredibly rare

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_05]: syndrome

[01:42:59] [SPEAKER_05]: incredibly rare disease that makes your tissue

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_05]: grow in weird ways but like that's

[01:43:04] [SPEAKER_05]: something that like a few hundred people have had ever

[01:43:06] [SPEAKER_05]: or whatever um

[01:43:07] [SPEAKER_05]: but they don't even know they've done like tests on him

[01:43:10] [SPEAKER_05]: right and we still you know like on the bones

[01:43:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and on the ancestors

[01:43:13] [SPEAKER_04]: his bones are in a museum

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_05]: well yes but you have to

[01:43:17] [SPEAKER_05]: have special permission to see them

[01:43:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I think you need to maybe like are you thinking of the

[01:43:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Mutter Museum in Philadelphia Ben

[01:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: because they have a cast

[01:43:26] [SPEAKER_02]: of him at the

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_02]: at the murder obviously

[01:43:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Michael Jackson's skeleton

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_01]: or was that just so you tried to buy it

[01:43:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean or maybe it's an urban legend

[01:43:35] [SPEAKER_05]: it's one of those classics like I thought the same

[01:43:37] [SPEAKER_02]: there's not even any reference to it on Wikipedia

[01:43:39] [SPEAKER_02]: so it must have been scrubbed from anything

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_02]: resembling fact right

[01:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: but like you know watching the movie

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_05]: and thinking about Wacko Jacko

[01:43:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know I've heard that before

[01:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: who said that?

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just repeating what I've heard

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want grounds

[01:43:54] [SPEAKER_02]: you come back to the movie and like

[01:43:56] [SPEAKER_02]: you've convinced yourself like oh yeah well the elephant man was

[01:43:58] [SPEAKER_02]: like that because his mom was run over by an elephant

[01:44:00] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what I mean like that's exactly what I'm talking about

[01:44:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like Lynch is like I want to try

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_05]: and think about some abstract

[01:44:07] [SPEAKER_05]: origin for this person even if we'll

[01:44:09] [SPEAKER_05]: never actually address it in the film

[01:44:10] [SPEAKER_02]: the global special feature on the criterion

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_02]: is interesting with this historian who's like a

[01:44:14] [SPEAKER_02]: real Merrick historian I think he belongs

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_02]: to the university

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_02]: medical academy where his remains are

[01:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: but he basically you know

[01:44:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Merrick basically believed that his entire life

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: there was no reason at the time to

[01:44:26] [SPEAKER_02]: second guess what it's called

[01:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: like um like you know

[01:44:31] [SPEAKER_02]: matriarchal imprinting

[01:44:32] [SPEAKER_02]: or something like that the mother

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_02]: experiences the mother has would imprint on a fetus

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: while in the world

[01:44:38] [SPEAKER_05]: right so like she's like got run over

[01:44:40] [SPEAKER_05]: by an elephant and then

[01:44:41] [SPEAKER_05]: had an encounter with an elephant

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: more simply that she was just frightened by one

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_02]: right and you know

[01:44:48] [SPEAKER_02]: like okay I've said a couple times like the content

[01:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: of this movie is perfect but not

[01:44:52] [SPEAKER_02]: complex like the Merrick

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_02]: story what's complex and interesting is that

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_02]: the movie does adhere fairly

[01:44:58] [SPEAKER_02]: closely to his story

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a couple dramatic license

[01:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: flippings of events

[01:45:04] [SPEAKER_02]: but it even mentions like he wasn't like

[01:45:06] [SPEAKER_02]: this at birth and it seems to vary

[01:45:08] [SPEAKER_02]: did the start when he was two or

[01:45:10] [SPEAKER_02]: five but he did have a normal

[01:45:12] [SPEAKER_02]: life for a little while

[01:45:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and the love of his mother

[01:45:16] [SPEAKER_02]: that seems to be like a very melodramatic

[01:45:18] [SPEAKER_02]: driving force in the movie is very real

[01:45:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and a lot of what was

[01:45:22] [SPEAKER_02]: known about him is that at his

[01:45:24] [SPEAKER_02]: exhibit at the sideshow or whatever it

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_02]: would have been called he wrote or he had

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_02]: like dictated like a little pamphlet of his own

[01:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: life story from which most of his details

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_05]: are known right and obviously

[01:45:34] [SPEAKER_05]: we can only know so much

[01:45:36] [SPEAKER_05]: right because it's this

[01:45:38] [SPEAKER_05]: recollection from him yeah

[01:45:40] [SPEAKER_02]: but essentially like what the movie gets right

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_02]: is that he'd run away and had been

[01:45:44] [SPEAKER_02]: right you know he's trying to make

[01:45:46] [SPEAKER_02]: money you know a show

[01:45:48] [SPEAKER_05]: working factories but he had these increasing

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_05]: like issues and deformities

[01:45:52] [SPEAKER_05]: and things like that that made it harder and harder

[01:45:54] [SPEAKER_01]: for him to do anything get the sense that he learned

[01:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: it was safer for

[01:45:58] [SPEAKER_01]: him as a defensive measure to let people

[01:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: think that he was not intelligent

[01:46:03] [SPEAKER_01]: right right which is heartbreaking

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_05]: yes

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_05]: at one point he had

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_05]: surgery on him on his face

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I think to try and deal with it when he was

[01:46:13] [SPEAKER_05]: like a teenager

[01:46:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean Lord knows what surgery

[01:46:17] [SPEAKER_05]: really looked like or whatever but you know

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_02]: something with a rusty blade

[01:46:22] [SPEAKER_02]: held over a flame

[01:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: as well the person is awake

[01:46:24] [SPEAKER_05]: and then right was a surgery scene

[01:46:26] [SPEAKER_05]: in this movie I have to leave the

[01:46:28] [SPEAKER_05]: workhouse and the only way is to like be

[01:46:30] [SPEAKER_05]: a human novelty right I mean I'm scrubbing

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_01]: through the movie now it is truly minute

[01:46:34] [SPEAKER_01]: 30 when you see him for the first

[01:46:36] [SPEAKER_01]: time the movie has like

[01:46:38] [SPEAKER_01]: such an effort around right

[01:46:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and you're seeing him in shadow abstract

[01:46:42] [SPEAKER_01]: it in silhouette

[01:46:44] [SPEAKER_02]: an eraser head does similar tricks

[01:46:46] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah some of the practical effects

[01:46:48] [SPEAKER_02]: yes conceals them in a way

[01:46:50] [SPEAKER_02]: that you feel like you're seeing them a lot

[01:46:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and you feel like they're in a lot more of the movie than they are

[01:46:54] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah the thing with this is right you don't

[01:46:56] [SPEAKER_05]: see it much at all and then you do

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_05]: see it lots like then

[01:47:00] [SPEAKER_05]: he is once he becomes the of course

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_05]: the primary character exactly he is the lead

[01:47:04] [SPEAKER_01]: of the film right the first three minutes Hopkins

[01:47:06] [SPEAKER_01]: is really driving the movie

[01:47:07] [SPEAKER_01]: yes and then it's when the

[01:47:10] [SPEAKER_01]: made opens the door for the first time you get

[01:47:12] [SPEAKER_01]: this incredibly clear

[01:47:13] [SPEAKER_01]: unvarnished shot of just him sitting in bed

[01:47:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and she just immediately breaks into tears

[01:47:18] [SPEAKER_02]: but also like in terms of the craft of this movie

[01:47:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and the sort of like the lynch

[01:47:22] [SPEAKER_02]: you can't believe he has it in him

[01:47:24] [SPEAKER_02]: when when Hopkins sees him

[01:47:26] [SPEAKER_02]: at the exhibit

[01:47:28] [SPEAKER_02]: it's the Spielberg shot

[01:47:29] [SPEAKER_02]: it pushes in on him as a tear runs down

[01:47:32] [SPEAKER_02]: his face and it goes on for

[01:47:34] [SPEAKER_02]: ten seconds longer than you think this reaction

[01:47:36] [SPEAKER_02]: shot will yeah and that is

[01:47:38] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of you feel your introduction to him but it is

[01:47:40] [SPEAKER_02]: such a empathetic

[01:47:42] [SPEAKER_02]: shot but it is a shot that now is a

[01:47:44] [SPEAKER_02]: cliche because Spielberg use it a hundred times

[01:47:46] [SPEAKER_02]: but to see Lynch do it

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_02]: at a time the Spielberg would have maybe only done it

[01:47:49] [SPEAKER_02]: twice yes he's kind of

[01:47:51] [SPEAKER_02]: not inventing but it's like parallel thinking

[01:47:53] [SPEAKER_02]: of this idea and Hopkins brings

[01:47:56] [SPEAKER_02]: humanity to that moment and you

[01:47:57] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever he's looking at he's crying

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: but not out of fear just out of sadness

[01:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: well and just like he's

[01:48:04] [SPEAKER_01]: processing this guy's life

[01:48:05] [SPEAKER_01]: he's trying to project it's not just

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_05]: oh what pain he must be in it's right

[01:48:09] [SPEAKER_05]: like how has he

[01:48:11] [SPEAKER_05]: been living for so long like you know

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_05]: what harm must see here's another example

[01:48:16] [SPEAKER_02]: of like the this let's just

[01:48:17] [SPEAKER_02]: let's assume for the sake of argument that this was a John

[01:48:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Hurt decision yeah

[01:48:21] [SPEAKER_02]: is the woman comes in as you're just saying

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's startled frightened she basically

[01:48:25] [SPEAKER_01]: treated as like a universal monster

[01:48:27] [SPEAKER_01]: she drops the poor scream moment yes

[01:48:29] [SPEAKER_01]: drops the poor immediately starts crying turns

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_02]: away powers and fear talking to

[01:48:33] [SPEAKER_02]: cargom and then he comes up he hears

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_02]: the screen he goes in and let's just

[01:48:37] [SPEAKER_02]: imagine that her it's his decision

[01:48:39] [SPEAKER_02]: to say when you come in

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be hiding in the corner yeah

[01:48:43] [SPEAKER_02]: now that could have been written or it could have not

[01:48:45] [SPEAKER_02]: been written but like the way it's free very

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_02]: far away and then the intervening

[01:48:49] [SPEAKER_02]: two minutes that Merrick

[01:48:51] [SPEAKER_02]: is so upset by this interaction

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah that he does he's not sitting on

[01:48:55] [SPEAKER_02]: the bed he's not crying

[01:48:57] [SPEAKER_02]: he's just gone to cower in the corner

[01:48:59] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah as a physical acting

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_02]: choice it conveys more than almost

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_02]: anything could and as a visual storytelling

[01:49:05] [SPEAKER_02]: choice it's like

[01:49:07] [SPEAKER_02]: you can't believe that the guy who made

[01:49:09] [SPEAKER_02]: experimental short films and an experimental feature

[01:49:11] [SPEAKER_02]: has the the craft

[01:49:13] [SPEAKER_02]: to just have a wide shot of

[01:49:15] [SPEAKER_02]: main character expressing

[01:49:17] [SPEAKER_02]: such emotional sadness from across

[01:49:19] [SPEAKER_02]: the room because he's hiding in a corner