The Hurt Locker with Sonia Saraiya

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check There's enough bang in there to send us all to Jesus

[00:00:23] If I'm gonna die, I wanna die podcasting! Great. Comfortable? Is that the line? Comfortable, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. Yeah. Hello everybody, my name is Griffin, and I'm... It's drinking your pink coffee! Pow! I just shit my pants. I'm David Sims. This is our ASMR episode.

[00:00:45] Lock the gates. This is a criterion. No, no, no. Addition of John Tucker must die. Alright, alright. Turn up the volume. What would happen if I just put that up right now? We'd get louder. Okay. You know I've gotten that complaint before that our podcast isn't loud enough?

[00:01:02] Yeah, sometimes our voices drop out a little bit. Because we like to go quiet small. That's because you start the show off by going, Podcast! Hey Ben, Ben, Ben, watch the mic! Watch the mic! You're up there! I don't think it's gonna happen. Anyway, sorry. Hey Ben.

[00:01:21] Hey Ben. I'm so mad. Oh, you guys. Yeah, welcome to Blank Check with Griffin and David. I remember Damon Wayne saying, Tonight I'm just gonna do a jazz set. This is his favorite Mark Maron thing to remember. I don't even remember it. Has he said it many times?

[00:01:39] He says it a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's wrong with me? It's really interesting to watch Griffin prepare to say something idiotic. Yeah, right. It's sort of you see the, his, his click. Yeah, exactly. The gears turning. What the fuck's the pulse? Alright, alright, come on.

[00:01:59] Hello Blankies, Blancoreakans. No, don't know. We do have, no we have, this is, this is, I mean it'll be too late by the time we record this. It's too late. Let's get into the episode.

[00:02:08] We do have a listener in Puerto Rico who posted to our Reddit that we're the thing keeping him sane right now. Which I was like, I'm very appreciative of, but I also was immediately like, Can we help in any more concrete way?

[00:02:19] I'm glad the podcast is helping you like stay sane. But also we can send you pasta or? Right, like is there any, anyway. Oh boy, that was, yeah, that was a little jarring. But this episode goes out to him. Yeah. I believe his username is I laugh alone.

[00:02:36] I don't know his real name. I only know him by his username. I laugh alone. He's our Blancoreakan. Yeah. This is a podcast called Blanchek. Mm-hmm. We're hashtag the two friends. Yep. We are connoisseurs of contest. What? We are contests of connoisseurs. Jesus Christ.

[00:02:54] How long is this going to take you guys? Two hours. Two hours. We are contest of champions. We are connoisseurs of context, I guess. Yeah. Uh-huh. And this is a podcast about filmographies. That is true. Directors who had massive success early on in their career

[00:03:09] and were issued a series of Blanchek's. Sometimes the checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. That's right. So I didn't realize that Catherine Bigelow had been granted a Blanchek. Her two obvious Blanchek's, Griffin, do you agree with me? Strange Shades in Zero Dark Thirty? Yeah.

[00:03:26] So, you know, Freud also qualifies as Blanchek Movie? Uh, yeah. For sure. For sure. I wonder how much that cost. Check bounced. But that was... It wasn't that expensive. 34 million. Still, you know. Okay. But I mean, she had complete control over that.

[00:03:39] That was Megan Ellison just writing her check. That's true. That's true. Strange Days is her very obvious Blanchek movie. She's less Blanchek-y than... It's a good sci-fi movie from the mid-90s. The other directors we've covered. Yeah, I feel like her checks have always been more conditional.

[00:03:53] Which you know... A little more. And those are the first women to get $100 million for a movie. That's another thing. I mean, she crosses these weird... K-19, the Widowmaker. And submarines. And... And first woman to win an Oscar for Best Director. For this fucking movie. For the movie.

[00:04:10] We're talking about today, a historic movie. A Best Picture winner. True. How many Best Picture winners have we discussed on this podcast? Two. What... go on. This in Titanic? Titanic. Is that it? I guess that's it. Pro nominate it. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right.

[00:04:29] Sixth Sense was nommed. Okay, wait, but I have two questions. Also, you guys haven't introduced me. Do you want me to introduce myself? I always like the guest to talk a little bit before we introduce them. It's my thing. My sincere bad. I was like...

[00:04:39] No, no, no, you're good right now. I'm killing it right now. You're great. Killing it. I'm killing it right now. That's all you need to know about me. I... Okay, so I have two questions. One, how much did the Hurtlocker cost to make? $15 million.

[00:04:51] So that's not much of a Blanchek movie at all. This was not a Blanchek movie. This was not at all. This was a great money together. Any which way you can and make this little movie, the kind of movie. So I was telling David...

[00:05:00] Because she was in the wilderness for this movie. But this movie becomes a guarantor for her. This allows her to get issued a couple checks in a row. I'm fucking good for her. I love this movie and I love her winning for this movie

[00:05:10] and I want to tell a small story. Well, I'm going to keep telling the stories. Sure. What happens because... Carry on. So I just rewatched it, right? So I watched it when it first came out and then I rewatched it with my sister.

[00:05:19] Have you seen it in between? No. Same here. I don't want to watch it. And my sister is not someone I can get to watch movies with me all the time. She doesn't like watch things just because they exist. That's not her thing.

[00:05:30] But she just started working at the VA. She's a psychology grad student. She's an extern there. She now has patients. She has people that she provides therapy for who are some of them are Vietnamese, some of them are from Iraq, Afghanistan, all over the place.

[00:05:46] Some of them are just like they were stationed at the DMZ and they now need help. And I got her to see the movie for this reason and she didn't know a woman had directed it. And so at the end, like in my defense... You blew her mind.

[00:06:01] I fucking told her like four times that Catherine Bigelow won an Oscar for it, but I don't think she realized that Catherine Bigelow... Right, she wasn't really thinking about it. She was a woman. Was she a costume designer? Yeah. No, seriously. Great costumes in this movie.

[00:06:12] And then at the end she was like, oh, like a woman directed it. And I was like, fucking yeah man, a woman directed it. One of the reasons it's so fucking good. I have a very similar story

[00:06:20] and it's the thing that I always think of with this movie. But I went to go see it with Sophie Fader, my best friend often invoked on the show. Great person. And... I don't know her. You'll meet her someday. I'm sure she's fine. She's a friend of mine

[00:06:35] and everyone should be friends with each other. We're the two friends but everyone else can be friends as long as they're fine landing outside of that tight circle. But during the scene where they're drawing the targets on each other's chest and punching each other

[00:06:49] after they've been wrestling on the floor in their quarters, Sophie turned to me and said, this was opening weekend, a sunshine theater. She turned to me and said, this is the most masculine movie I've ever seen. Oh yeah. And I said, it was directed by a woman.

[00:07:04] And she went, ha ha ha, okay. No, seriously, it was directed by a woman. And she went, ha ha ha. And I went, no, honestly it was directed by a woman. I'm trying to watch the movie. Enough with the jokes.

[00:07:13] And then when it got to that in crash, she went, wait, it's actually directed. She couldn't believe that that was the case. And especially at this moment because she hadn't made a movie in six years, five years? Five years, six years.

[00:07:27] Six years and the two before this had been big flops. Right, yeah, yeah. What were the ones before? The two before were The Weight of Water which was shot in 2000, festival in 2000, not released until 2002 and K-19, The Widowmaker. Of course the namesake for this mini series,

[00:07:44] Pod19, The Widowcast, which also came out in 2002 and those two movies bombed really fucking hard. Do you guys have podcast widows? That's such a bummer. Podcast, The Widow, whatever. Oh my God. The Widowcaster. Yes, The Widowcaster. But in between she did make a TV show. We should mention.

[00:08:01] Starring. We'll get to that. Starring for, remind me. Who's the star? Jim Belushi. Really? No, that's Wild Palms, right? Oh, Wild Palms the mini series. Yes. We're not talking about the inside, which is how she fired off of. I know, but that's how she gets to mark ball.

[00:08:18] Okay, yes, but she did get fired off of that. But I just think we should connect the dots because for some reason Jim Belushi has come up almost every single episode this May series and seemed off topic and that was going through the filmography

[00:08:27] and Wild Palms a mini series that she directed a part of, starred Jim Belushi. So guess what? All those Jimbo references on topic. Agreed. I just remember I read an interview with her once where she was like, look, I wasn't like, like dead.

[00:08:44] Like it's not like I was not allowed to make movies. I did work on this TV show and that kind of didn't happen for me. She directed episodic stuff. I think she did a documentary. She was sort of floating around is all she's

[00:08:54] saying rather than like it wasn't like I had to like break the door back down to get back into the industry. But yeah, she had been gone for a little while and she definitely, it had been a long time since she made a hit movie. Basically 15 plus years.

[00:09:07] Yes. Because Strange Days was also not a hit. So yeah, The Hurt Locker. Have you introduced our guest? No. Our guest has a great friend of ours but hasn't been on since the Star Wars days. It's a good episode. It's because you guys don't like me very much.

[00:09:23] That is not true. We're just pretending we're friends. It's fine. It's fine. There were a couple that you were almost on. My pain about it, it's going in The Hurt Locker. There were a couple you were almost on. I remember. Oh my God, thank you. No, no, no.

[00:09:35] But I feel like there were a couple of times where it was floated out to have you on episodes and then it didn't work out for schedule. Yeah, we wanted you on Catch Me If You Can actually. Remember that. See, I'm not making this up.

[00:09:44] There were times when we were talking about... But you know, yeah. These things happen. And you were going to be on the Michael Bay series that we do not speak of. Right. Wait, is that not happening anymore? It may have been one day.

[00:09:55] Well, it was supposed to happen five months ago. Guys, get me on to talk about the island. I have so many feelings about the island. It's unreal. Everyone wants to talk about the island. That was the hottest one. I think because it's the weirdest movie he's ever made.

[00:10:06] But Alex Ross Perry wants to talk the island. Oh no, I have competition. What if we have 12 guests on our The Island episode? We're not doing Michael Bay any time soon. That would actually be really funny. By the way, we're doing Michael Bay next.

[00:10:16] If you're listening, we're doing Michael Bay. Oh yeah, you said their names. Flip it out, Finn. Flip it out. That is our rival. All right, we're not going to talk about them. We're going to talk about the Hurt Locker. Of course, we're talking about cereal.

[00:10:32] Come at us, cereal. Don't leave that out. Yeah, leave that in. Leave that one in. Bleed the first one out. Cereal. Also twisted, also fingered. Do you still even have that one? Yeah. Sorry, sorry, we're being real silly. No, it's fine.

[00:10:53] Our guest today is a writer for Variety. Damn right, TV critic of Variety. Right. And you know, analyze the broken heart of Anakin Skywalker on Revenge of the Podcast. And Padme Amidala. They're two broken hearts. That meant a lot to me, you guys. Can you're breaking my heart?

[00:11:13] Right, it was that episode. It's a good episode. It's crucial. Good friends, Sonia Saraya, thank you so much for coming back on the show. Oh my God, thank you guys so much for having me. It's really great to be here. Really excited.

[00:11:25] I just, it was when we were talking big alone and we were like, and I was like, I had this vague notion. I was like, Sonia might really like the hurt locker. Like it was sort of just like lodged back in my head somewhere.

[00:11:35] I feel like if I've ever mentioned something to you in the past like six years of our friendship, you remember it. It might be like floating in my brain. Yeah, yeah. No, so that makes sense to me. And through you used to podcast together?

[00:11:45] We did, although I don't know that we ever talked about the hurt locker or anything like that. Not that I can remember, but maybe we did. It's podcasting, it's a very close relationship. It's brain, it's everything. I kind of like to sometimes when we're like

[00:11:55] in gatherings with other people. It's brain, it's everything. No, there's everything is in there. Like I'll be like randomly, I'll like call him across the room. David, what was the 2003 winner for best picture? And he'll like just say it and everyone around me is like,

[00:12:07] oh my God, I didn't know David could do that. And I'm like, you guys, this is why your friends with David. Yeah, it's a, I did do a game once at a party on my room where I could name the first and I mean,

[00:12:18] sorry, not the first person, but the title of the last episode of most TV shows. Wow. The last episode of most TV shows is usually this kind of like vague sounding title with a sense of like finality. Fortentous, yeah. I can't remember Frazier. So good. The last one.

[00:12:35] Yeah. Mad about you. Mad about you. I have no idea. Frazier I do know and now that's sticking in my craw. Inside Schwartz. They finally go outside Schwartz. How I met your mother? I don't know. That was after. Yeah. Good night Seattle. That's the last episode of Frazier.

[00:12:55] But I mean, I'm thinking of like, like the Mashes Goodbye Farewell and Amen. Oh right. Like ER is, cause that's the one with Alexa Splodell. They have such vague names. Fuck, do you remember what the last one was? No, you remember. For ER, no.

[00:13:13] Like you know what the last episode of the West Wing is called? Oh my God. I'm going to look at that. No, I don't think I do. Tomorrow. Yeah. Of course it is. It's like something sort of amazing to me about how boring these titles get to be.

[00:13:26] Like the last episode of Lost is called The End. Yes. That one. And Blackadder is just goodbye with like several ease. Yeah. ER's last episode is called And In The End. Yeah. Like right? It's amazing. I could play this game all day. Sex City City.

[00:13:42] Oh wait a minute. That one I should know. It's called like an American in Paris, but like not that. Isn't it? I thought that was the. Is that the beginning of the past? I thought that was the beginning of the Paris arc. It might be. Yeah. Oh shoot.

[00:13:55] No, I'm right. An American girl in Paris, Part Un and Part De. Part De. Right. Yeah. Fuck that. Six Sex Feet Underes is Everything Ends. The Sopranos is Made in America. Yes. Mad Men is Person to Person. Person to Person. Good name. Breaking Bad is Felina. Felina.

[00:14:15] The Simpsons? Never going to happen baby. It's literally never going to happen. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, it could keep going all day, but. Blank check? Should probably do this podcast, right? Blank check the Hurt Locker. Blank check the TV show which someone's going to make.

[00:14:31] Someone's going to make it. It's weird because this is the last episode we're recording in this. It is. We're saying bye-bye. We've done this a little out of order for because of guest scheduling and I'm really happy with the lineup of guests.

[00:14:45] Yeah, we, it was worth it too. But there was a lot of like us throwing out to people who we haven't had on in a while or people who we have never had on before who had asked about doing the show and saying like,

[00:14:56] which of these do you want? And no one claimed the Hurt Locker. It's true. I thought that was going to go early, but for some reason that was the only one that no one left it.

[00:15:04] The big one and we weren't like picking a movie and then reaching out to people. So then we had this thing where we kept on like, we had recorded every other episode and we were like, who do we get on for the Hurt Locker?

[00:15:14] And David went like, I think Sonya really likes it. And I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes. And all three of us, I mean, Ben, did you see this movie in theaters? No. And had you seen it before recording this episode?

[00:15:26] I had seen it less than a year ago. Okay. Yes. So you'd seen it recently. The three of us had not seen it since it was in theaters. I saw it in theaters and then I saw it again. Yeah. Like last weekend. I thought of it very highly.

[00:15:37] I remembered it pretty vividly. Yeah. I remember the first half very well. Oh God. I was a little more like, I was like, oh God, I forgot all this stuff happened. I forgot all the stuff with Beckham.

[00:15:48] The only thing I remembered really was the body bomb because that part is so fucked up. I did vaguely remember that. And I was actually reading about it afterwards and that's like a very controversial element of the movie. There's only one case of it that's documented.

[00:16:03] And it didn't work. Which is unsurprising. It seems a little tricky. But I can actually see how in a movie that is otherwise... Right. It was feeling too sensational. Yeah. That this body bomb plot that then turns into him becoming like a vigilante briefly. Yeah.

[00:16:22] I thought that was like a very interesting choice. I was wondering what you guys think about it. Well, we will definitely get to that today. I got a lot of hot takes on that. Hot takes. But I was reading through the Wikipedia page.

[00:16:34] I'll say, you know, going into this series, my feeling was I think Hurt Locker is a very good movie. I think it's really solid. Yeah. It's cool that it won Best Picture, but a lot of that was sort of the context of... A little bit.

[00:16:47] The David versus the Goliath thing. But that's like a cool Best Picture winner in history. Pretty surprising Best Picture winner. Very surprising. And still is the lowest grossing Best Picture winner ever. Yeah. And that's gonna be hard to beat. Ever. Yeah.

[00:17:00] And even like even unadjusted for inflation, most movies in the 60s and 50s outgrossed it. Yeah. Like you have to go back to like the 40s to find a Best Picture winner that makes less than... Whoa. It's just... It ended up at 14, 16. 15 I think. Yeah. 17. Like so low.

[00:17:17] I think it was 15 before the Oscars and they re-released it for two weekends after that. It was already out on DVD and then it went over to 17. But like fucking the artist makes like three times as much as Hurt Locker when the Hurt Locker's an action movie.

[00:17:31] And I know it was also a summer release. It was in a rock war movie. It didn't have the Oscar bump because it was already out of theaters by then. Yeah. But it's a very... It's an unconventional war movie.

[00:17:40] I mean, I think that's one of the reasons when I first watched it, I remember being very surprised because I thought that it was going to be about the like political setup of this war like like an art and more of an argument to it.

[00:17:54] I got a lot of shit for saying not a lot of shit but a lot of come off shit. I got some Dingle Berries for saying in our Dunkirk episode that Dunkirk was like an apolitical war movie which feels impossible to make.

[00:18:05] We're like, well, they're obviously political elements. There's the sense of nationalism and how it's commenting on Brexit and all this sort of stuff, which is like fine. But I think this movie falls in that same sort of category where it really is just like

[00:18:15] human character story within the setting of a war. It is not concerned with the larger implications of the war by and large. It's not excessively concerned with it. But it comes across as being very anti-war ultimately. It does. Like most war movies about the experience of a war.

[00:18:32] The actual, right. The human toll of war. But it also comes across as being anti-war despite being about like the most pro-war kind of guy. Right. In a weird way without being like... In a way. Right. In a way.

[00:18:44] But what I like about it is that he seems to have no ideology. He just is like... He's this guy. ...stubborn yet. Yes. But this movie came after a run of everyone was trying to crack how do you make the modern war movie? Right. Here we are.

[00:18:58] We're like engaged in two wars. It's a fucking moral morass that we're all like swimming in. And there's just the series of war movies that don't fucking work. Well, that's the thing. I was like making an Iraq war movie was seen as unprofitable. Right. It's depressing.

[00:19:13] None of them had done well the Oscars. Like it had not worked critically or commercially. The contemporary Iraq war because three kids is really a great fit. Three kids is great but what did not make money? From 2003 on they all fucking belly flop.

[00:19:28] You go like Jar ahead in the valley of a loss, stop loss, green zone. Right. Yep. Green zones after this I think. Sure. You know. No, but you're right. Body even like body of lies. Right. A movie my parents really like randomly. Body of lies is okay.

[00:19:45] It's a really Scott action movie with Leo in it. It's kind of forgettable. Yeah. Is Siriana about this war? No. Siriana is about the 90s Gulf War. That's certainly same. Yes. It sort of falls into the mash category where it's like about a previous war during the time.

[00:20:03] Yeah. Like yeah right. Jarhead is also a period piece but the whole reason to make the movie at that point in time is to reflect upon the idea of war. Right. Yeah. Right. It's specifically war in the middle.

[00:20:14] Now of course since this movie and again this movie was not necessarily a hit. No. American sniper came out and that is now the like money making Iraq war movie. And that is a fucking Oscar nomination.

[00:20:27] A stirring ish fairly not pro it's not really a pro war movie exactly but it is certainly like a bit of a gung ho masculine movie about a hero. I hear. I still don't know what that movie is. Yeah. Well I don't know.

[00:20:44] Clint Eastwood's weird because he's made anti-war movies and he's made pro war movies. He has a lot of perspective on. He's fetishized violence. He's criticized violence. Yeah. He's recontextualized violence. He is just one of those directors who I think is like I'm just making a movie over here.

[00:20:58] Yeah. Like you know. I saw it a second time just to see if I could fucking crack what it was doing and I still don't know their elements of that movie I like a lot. They're all in something with the frustrate me.

[00:21:07] I don't know if there's any guiding. I think it's a well acted film. I'm not a huge fan of that movie. I'm not either. And then there's also lone survivor which is an Afghanistan movie. But did very well.

[00:21:19] Did do very well and that movie is brutal and bad. But both of those movies come after Hurlaka. Hurlaka was the one that reversed the curse in a way. It was the new adventures of old Christine. It reversed the curse. What a great shot.

[00:21:32] That was the last episode of that called. The old adventures of new Christine. Obviously. Let's fucking shake hands and bet and just hold and pray that we've nailed this. I've also been jinxing with guests a lot in recent episodes. And with you I'm just I'm happy.

[00:21:49] I feel like I'm really sinking with people. We're still shaking your hands. We're shaking hands. For some reason the last episode is called Get Smarter. God damn it! I don't know why. It may have just gotten canceled though.

[00:22:00] They may not have had an idea of like this is the finale. Maybe Don Adams was on the last episode. Sure. It was a Maxwell smart agent 99 crossover. Probably right. I don't know. You yelled off mic so I'm very proud of you. Thank you.

[00:22:15] Yelling off five yelling off mic points. Thank you. So the Hurlaka. Right. I'm sure when they're defining film of the 21st century. And you saw it in theaters? No, I actually saw it like on a couch after it came out on DVD I think. But before the Oscars?

[00:22:33] Probably after the Oscars. Because it was a long time between release and Oscar. It was a July release and yeah it doesn't. I think I actually watched it before because I remember when she won I was like happy.

[00:22:44] I was like oh I also watched fucking Avatar and I'm glad that that didn't win. It was so fully out of theaters and on home video that it had no Oscar bump. You know like the box office was just fucking locked in and then they re-released it.

[00:22:57] Try squeeze a couple more dollars out of it. And that was of course the argument used to be really it was really rare for there to be a best picture winner. That wasn't a huge success like even the more prestigey movies like your Schindler's lists or whatever.

[00:23:08] They made a lot of money. At least a hundred right. And this was just not a movie that had done that it had been like a bit of a success because no one expected anything of it. But it really did buck that trend.

[00:23:21] And it was kind of the entree for Jeremy Renner right? Oh a hundred percent. 100% it is this is a genuine star making performance because his career was not really going anywhere.

[00:23:34] I mean he was working but he was not a guy of any real notes before this and then overnight he got six franchises. Yeah. They really tried to cram him into a lot of stuff. Right. Because he was 35 in this movie you know he'd been around.

[00:23:51] And it comes out like two years after they've shot it. So by the time it comes out and he's getting the Oscar now he's like 37. Wow. And he'd been in some stuff like he'd been in the assassination of Jesse James. He's in. Dommer was the big thing.

[00:24:03] It wasn't a big movie. But I'm going to say he was in Dommer which is one of his first performances where he plays Jeffrey Dommer. Yeah. Which is a tough movie to watch by any means but he is pretty good in it.

[00:24:15] And she had seen him in that and thought this is my guy. L.I.E. he's really good into it. Interesting. Yeah. Long Island Expressway. Yeah he used to work on the Long Island Expressway doing road work and he was really good. That's like really interesting.

[00:24:30] And then the other two stars stars I mean they weren't stars then or Anthony Mackie. Who had been in stuff. I mean I know. He was the most high profile of the three at that point because he'd been in big movies.

[00:24:41] He's in Half Nelson which he's really good in. Eight Mile was his first film. He was a supporting. He was like a guy. He wasn't like a star. He was a guy in big movies. For sure. He's a cutie too. He's got a very handsome guy.

[00:24:53] This guy is a flago. Hey look you give me a plate of Anthony Mackarone entries. I'd eat it up. Of course now both of them are in Marvel movies. Along with Evangeline Lully. That's true. This film has three Marvelers. The Wasp.

[00:25:13] And the character is the one who kind of doesn't pop after this. You know, he's well cast. He's really good in this I think I was telling David yesterday how much I like him. But you know, he was in Chicago PD.

[00:25:24] He was in flight which is pretty good to him. But he's just kind of and it's funny when you see someone's in Chicago PD. It means they were false up in in Chicago Fire. Chicago met in Chicago Law or whatever.

[00:25:38] I mean, you end up getting some good residuals if you get cast on. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, it's funny that I guess he's well cast though. He's very well cast. He's very well cast. Yeah. And so they, she casts these guys. Yeah.

[00:25:53] But yeah, to go back for it. Oh, sorry. She meets Mark Bull. She does this TV show. Who's a freelance journalist who had been embedded with a bomb squad. Besides the shift to Tinseltown. Right.

[00:26:04] He, they had worked together on the inside, which was this TV show that didn't come together. Tim Minier show. What was the inside about? It was also based on one of his articles. What was it about? It was Tim Minier, Howard Gordon. Wow.

[00:26:19] It was inside the work, inside the work of FBI's Los Angeles Violent Crimes Unit. Oh sure. Yeah. Sounds great. But she like developed it, shot the pilot and then they picked it up and redeveloped it, re-shot, fired her. Yeah. I made it a little more boring, I think.

[00:26:35] Yeah. Rachel Nichols, Adam Baldwin, Katie Finneran, Nelson Ellis, Peter Cronin. Peter Coyote. This is a good cast. Tim Minier direct, you know, I mean Tim Minier is good. What network got it? Fox? CBS. Oh. Wow. I was expecting something prestigious. No, it's Fox.

[00:26:53] I was expecting, so that's interesting though. It was just, you know, 2002, just, you know, whatever, they were 13 episodes and then that's that. But it's the start of Biggie Bowl. Bowl. Yeah, Mark Bowl. Biggie Bowl. Biggie Bowl, Biggie, Biggie Bowl, Bowl.

[00:27:07] Now Mark Bowl, who I think is her biggest, often the biggest hindrance to her movies now that they are collaborators, right? Each of her movies, I would say the screenplay is often what slows me down the most. Do you feel the way about this film? Yes. Interesting.

[00:27:24] What do you feel is the biggest? I think the script's really good. I did not feel that about this film. Yeah. I think this is his best script by far. I was ready to, because we've already recorded our Zero Dark 30 in Detroit episodes, feel

[00:27:37] like the bloom was off the rose a little bit and come back to this one, looking at the screenplay a little more clear-eyed and seeing more of his tricks, which sometimes happens.

[00:27:44] You know, when a writer comes on the scene and they're hot and they got a new voice and then you see them do it five more times and you're like, oh, I get it now. It's not that impressive. I see the machinery of your one routine you do.

[00:27:54] Yeah. I'm feeling some of that with the good old Taylor Sheridan these days. Yeah, for sure. Where I'm like, I'm now retroactively less impressed with some of those earlier screenplays because I feel like you got one story you keep on telling. Yeah.

[00:28:08] He wrote Sicario and he wrote Hell of a Water and then Wind River, which is a very interesting counterpoint to Jeremy Reynolds performance in this movie, I think. But I think the script's really fucking strong. I think the first half of the script is really strong.

[00:28:23] And then the second half I have a little bit of trouble with, but everything else I like. I like the whole script. I think that that's interesting. I think that if you separate it into quarters, I think first quarter, second quarter and fourth quarter are great. Oh, sure.

[00:28:36] Yes, that's fair. I think the third quarter is where things get hairy. I'm down with that. You talk about the Beckham sort of revenge stuff. I am talking about the body bomb to the vigilante invasion of the house, which I

[00:28:46] think is the most problematic element of the film. That was my least favorite part of the film. I have a take on it now. We'll get to it when we get to it. We're going to talk about our tapes. But I think this is a very unconventional screenplay.

[00:28:57] I mean, this is like the kind of screenplay that any fucking film school would tell you not to write because it's very episodic. Right? I mean, there's no real narrative propulsion. It's like a series of different missions.

[00:29:08] And it becomes a character piece, but the characterization and how they build those characters is pretty unconventional because you never have the big confession scenes. You never have the crazy backstory. You get little bits and pieces here, but it's a lot of just behavioral stuff that

[00:29:22] just stacks up on top of each other. But it's one of those movies where you could rearrange the major set pieces of this film in any order you want. Certainly the first few. There's no continuity to them.

[00:29:33] There's a build to it that works in terms of story time. What do we got now? Right, right, right. I mean, it's interesting because I feel like the arc is actually less present for him because he's kind of a constant.

[00:29:42] And then it's really the other characters trying to get the fuck out that have a sort of sense of like urgency as you build towards their last days. Right, like it's a movie about one guy who only knows how to exist in war and

[00:29:55] he teaches two other people that they shouldn't be in the war anymore. Right, right. Yeah. Like they see him and they're like, fuck, this isn't for me. So sad. One of the things my sister was saying a few times and I was sort of building on

[00:30:08] this with her is that each of them is a different kind of veteran. Like that there is that there is like, which is not to say those are the only three kinds, but you know that she has heard the story of the guy who's

[00:30:20] so fucking scared and keeps blaming himself for the thing he didn't do. And then the person who just is like, I have to like leave and like start my own life because this is like broken me.

[00:30:32] And then there's also the person that doesn't know how to function unless they're in that space. And like these experiences are all present in this place and like come out. Yeah. Well, I walk away from this film feeling like Garry is going to have a much

[00:30:46] easier time readjusting and processing everything. He's going to be like, that was bad. Yeah. It made me feel bad. And he was very in touch with his emotions the entire time he was there. He understands the stakes of the enormity of it.

[00:30:59] But he also gets, he gets James from he's like, he like, he, he, he nails him by the end or he like what he says that line that scene I think is so good where he's like for your fucking adrenaline fix.

[00:31:11] And then he's able to turn to Mackie and be like, get home safe. Then like smile and like the whole thing. And it's like this switch and you're like, he's fine. He's figured it out. Meanwhile, Mackie in what I think is his best moment when he gives

[00:31:22] his final speech about needing to leave and he breaks down crying. What's amazing, I think about that performance is he does not look physically like he's crying at all. Yeah. It's one of those things where like it's suddenly just like the piping broke. Yeah.

[00:31:35] And water is just streaming down his face, but he's just like talking clinically and he's trying to keep it together. Right. Yeah. And it's like, oh, this guy's fucked. This guy is fucked. He's going to go back to the point he loves and he's going to raise a

[00:31:49] child and he's going to be a doting father. He has a way. He's never going to be complete. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. I, you know, not to tappant, you know, for the next episode after this one. But in my mind, I had, you know, filed away.

[00:32:02] OK, Zero Dark Thirty is her like stone cold masterpiece. Oh, wow. Hurt Lockery is like a pretty good movie. Interesting. And what I was very surprised by and rewatching was Zero Dark Thirty and now degrade to like a very good movie.

[00:32:15] I think a movie promise a very good movie. I think this is like a fucking masterpiece. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree. And I did watch Zero Dark Thirty in theaters because I liked this movie so much and I did feel a little bit like, hmm.

[00:32:25] See at the time Zero Dark Thirty, I was like 100 percent like fucking knocked out. And I was like, this is the movie that like I feel like I wanted Hurt Locker to be. And now rewatching it. A lot of that movie jars for me.

[00:32:36] I still think it's very good, but with some major issues. And this for me was just like even the stuff I could argue doesn't really work. It's I was talking to someone last night who said to me,

[00:32:46] I think the thing about movies is no movie is perfect, but the movies you love are the movies where you love and accept their flaws. That's a good call, right? And it's like with this or like things I could pinpoint,

[00:32:57] but it's also like the whole piece of this thing just works so fucking well. I agree. I also think that this is for us. I certainly felt this way. A great movie to see after you just watched every single Captain Big O'Haggle.

[00:33:08] Yeah, literally the last one we're watching chronologically. Yes, after you just watch essentially all of her movies in three weeks, you know, like. We record all this very fast because I'm getting on a plane. I'm hiding out in Europe for a month.

[00:33:19] Yeah, but then we're bringing you back asshole. Yeah. Why are you going to hide out in Europe? Because I need to decompress. I've been so stressed out. Oh my God, you're like a privileged actor person. Now I get to do that.

[00:33:31] No, I get to do that. Oh my God. I haven't gone on a vacation in forever because I always was like, oh, if I get on plane, I miss a job. I don't want to go to like, you know, Minneapolis for two days.

[00:33:42] And now I'm like, let me just go to Europe and sit in a cafe and read a book. Oh my God. I'm so proud of you, Griffin. You made it. Fucking asshole. Now you can have your nervous breakdowns in private.

[00:33:51] Exactly. I'm going to have a private nervous breakdown in Europe. OK, great. Well, David's bored. I'm going to be like Jessica Chastain on the plane at the end of the day. I've heard all about his Paris. My Paris excursion. My sabbatical. Hey, Ben, how are you doing?

[00:34:07] I'm good. So I'm watching most of Bigelow's movies and then, you know, seeing this last night again. Didn't watch Detroit. I did it. It's a spoiler. Easy pass. But I saw this movie in a different way. Yes, because I feel like Renner.

[00:34:21] I like when I first saw was like, this guy is bad ass. This guy's crazy. Sure. I kind of didn't. I didn't like him as much. I don't think he was so flawed to me this time around. Yeah, I think that's what's good about this movie.

[00:34:33] But I think that's what's good about all her movies are certainly point break, you know, the movies that are most about like men yes, doing male things. And this is her most. The only this already is that he she allows you to like the person

[00:34:49] as a flawed individual. Maybe it's not like she's like, this is a bad person. Look at the bad or this is a hero, but she is very upfront about what is wrong here. You know, and this is her most literal presentation of masculinity

[00:35:02] and Mckiesma or other phones up masculinity are far more heightened. And this is like kind of about a real thing. Right. And this is when she adopts the sort of documentary style. Yes. I mean, this movie was shot all on 16 millimeter,

[00:35:16] which is crazy because a year later it would not have been probably not. And they always had like at least three cameras rolling oftentimes four or five for usually and the crazy side about this movie is this movie has

[00:35:28] the like craziest footage shot to footage used ratio in film history. Well, I said it was like 100 to one. Wow, in terms of just getting so much fucking footage. Because she wanted to just have all these different angles. These camera operators going around all these different sides

[00:35:44] and do this crazy editing. And she had this quote that I'm going to fucking misrepresent now as I try to pull it up. But a lot of people, I think, adopt this style just because they go like, oh, it's like fucking born. It's cool.

[00:35:53] It's cool to make the like shaky camera. It was just that Barry Eckroyd who shoots the is the green grass guy. But she had this whole fucking take on why that needed to be the style for the movie, which is she felt like

[00:36:06] that that was the way to present the way human beings process things in real time, especially like visual information, especially in a high state like that, where you're you're simultaneously conscious of the micro and the macro. And that if you make a shot and you hold on it,

[00:36:26] you're trying to draw the viewer's attention to one thing, the way you compose your shot, right? Ideally, there's some sort of center of it either by framing or by action or whatever it is. But you're like bombarded by shit.

[00:36:36] Right. And this is like and she's going between wide shots and close ups and super close ups and insert all this fucking shit. That's what she wants to do. And it feels very intentional. It's and it's it's masterful, I have to say, because I think that like

[00:36:51] one of the things that and again, it was fun to watch with Tanya, who hadn't seen it before and she didn't know what was going to happen is that it's like what she's like, what happened? Did they have the phone? Did they not have the phone?

[00:37:01] Did the phone make it go off? Right. And I'm like, we don't know. Like we literally have no idea. And that's going to be the takeaway of every scene that we don't know what actually happened. Her line is that's how we experience reality by looking at

[00:37:13] the microcosm, the macrocosm simultaneously. The eyes see differently than the lens, but with multiple focal lengths and a muscular editorial style, the lens can give you that microcosm, macrocosm perspective and that contributes to the feeling of total immersion, which is a boss fucking statement. Muscular. I love that.

[00:37:29] She's so hard core. We talk about this a lot on the Strangely's episode, but we should talk about it again. This movie shot in Jordan near the Iraq border because she wanted to get as close as she could to Iraq.

[00:37:38] She could not shoot in Iraq because the war was going on. Yeah. Average temperature in our shooting day was 120 degrees. 120 degrees. Wow. She recruited mostly Iraqi refugees who were living in Jordan to be the crew and to be the, you know,

[00:37:53] onlookers and the extras and the actor in the very crucial scene at the end is an Iraqi actor. Oh man. That is a. That's so fucking boss really intense. Even looking at the crew, like the number of airmen. Oh yeah. Sure. Right.

[00:38:07] That was so fucking satisfying to me, like just seeing that there's like, like I think one of the things that really comes through in the film is how much she wanted to like honor the experience, like not just necessarily like, like capture it or, or, or interpret it,

[00:38:23] but like actually like what herself wanted to understand it, which I think is I'm always going to have respect for that, you know? Yeah. I think that's that's fair. I think that's right.

[00:38:33] And I also, I do think she's drawing that from bowl who flaws aside as a journalist and he likes to draw from real sources to make these things. And yet, yeah. So they shot in Jordan. They made it for $15 million. It was an independent film.

[00:38:47] It premiered at Venice and did pretty well. It hopped over to Toronto. This is in 2008. Right. Exactly. So, you know, and then it gets picked up by Summit, not a huge company, but Twilight was big. Like Twilight come out that year. Yes. Yes. It was right.

[00:39:06] I guess Twilight was about to come out. Twilight comes out. Imagine your two movies. It comes out that November. Twilight and the Verlacher. No, but Twilight comes out that November. Right. So they purchased it before Twilight. They buy it for only a million point five,

[00:39:18] which is definitely less than they wanted considering it cost 15. And then they don't release it until the following summer. So there's that weird thing with this movie where it gets nominated for Spirit Awards the year before it wins the Oscar. Right. It doesn't get a best director nomination.

[00:39:35] This is all true. Despite her winning the Oscar. At the Spirits. Right. Tom McCarthy wins best director for The Visitor. Yeah, which is fucking weird. The wrestler wins best picture. Oh, right. Aronofsky wasn't even nominated for director either. The indie spirits are. And and Mackie and Brenner

[00:39:51] are nominated for best actor and best supporting actor. And then the following year, when it sweeps the Oscars, it isn't nominated at the Spirits because that sometimes will happen where if a movie. They champion a little movie that hasn't even come out, maybe.

[00:40:04] But it speaks to how low everyone's expectations for the movie were. If a movie has a big festival run, they don't think it's going to get a big theatrical release. They'll nominate at the spirits after the festival run. Tell me the most amount of screens this was on.

[00:40:17] Four hundred and fifty. No, you're a little higher. Five hundred and thirty five. Yeah. In its seventh week, that was at the height of its expansion, which is not very large. And then it never had release is like 2000, 2000, 2000. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm assumed.

[00:40:33] Yeah, no, no, no, I appreciate it. The listener as well. You're saying to the listener, but you also stared a Sonya. I did. I did. I did. Yes. No, but he has he's not wrong. I don't always know these things. Can I can I read some stats here

[00:40:46] from Wikipedia on the production? OK. Jeremy Renner says he got food poisoning. Right, so that 15 pounds in three days. The bomb suit when he's in the full bomb suit weighs 100 pounds. So imagine you're in 120 degree heat. You put on that suit, which had an extra 100 pounds

[00:41:01] and probably has an extra 100 degrees onto your body temperature. Right. When he's carrying Beckham down the stairs, the body twisted his ankle and couldn't walk filming shut down. Right. They said at that point, direct quote, people want to quit.

[00:41:15] All the departments were struggling to get their job done. None of them are communicating. A week later, filming resumed. They couldn't get most of the guns they wanted into Jordan. So the props guy had to build weapons like overnight.

[00:41:28] Like he was working like 14 hour days to try to build weapons for them. They use Chinese fireworks because they couldn't have gunpowder. Oh, my God. So they had fireworks loaded into all the guns. One day he was assembling a prop

[00:41:40] and the heat and friction caused the fireworks to blow up in his face. Two days later, he returned to work. It's one of those movies. No trailers, no private bathrooms. Like everyone was like apparently losing their minds on this fucking movie and threatened to quit all the time.

[00:41:52] Every single department. Oh, my God. Everybody was losing it. Oh, my God. It's one of those movies where now that it's basically the best movie that almost everyone who worked on it has ever worked on. Yeah. So like Mackie or Renner would be like. The career defining.

[00:42:06] It was a really tough shoot. It was really tough. Yeah. I'm glad we made it. You know, it's like one of those things where you're like, you know what? We had a lot of fun, even though it was like there was a lot of camaraderie.

[00:42:16] They're just like, it was really, really tough. Yeah. It was tough. You know, like they don't really be around it. But it kind of makes sense too, because the film is about a really tough place. It contributes. And maybe it can, right? Yeah.

[00:42:27] Right. Like if making my best friend's wedding was this tough, the movie would probably suffer. It'd feel a little different, right? But he says, right. He's got this quote where he says, there were two by fours with nails being dropped from two-story buildings

[00:42:37] that hit me in the helmet and they were throwing rocks. These are just civilians, right? In Jordan. We got shot at a few times when we were filming by real people. What the shit? Renner said, when you see it, you're going to feel like you've been in war.

[00:42:48] And like that sums it up pretty well, which is like they had a fucking nightmare experience, but it all translates on screen. Yeah. Because these guys just look so fucking worn out in every single shot in a way you kind of can't fake.

[00:42:58] I don't care how good an actor you are. There's something just about like these three actors being so fucking committed to these parts, being real pros, but also being at their fucking wit's end. Like looking physically and mentally and emotionally depleted. Except for Renner, right?

[00:43:14] He was having a fucking great time. Which is why I think he's so... But what I like about him is he's not a cowboy. Like if that makes sense, like he's not like Yi Hying. He's just genuinely unflappable.

[00:43:26] Yeah. Like to the extent that when people are like trying to pump him up too, he's just kind of like, yeah, yeah, no, no, whatever man. Like, yeah, I guess so, you know. Well, he is unflappable in a very specific situation. It's been very specific situation.

[00:43:39] But you're right. Yes. He's very like affectless. Right. Because like when he's doing wild shit, they're like, holy shit, what are you doing? And he's like, don't worry about it. Give me fun. This is just yeah. And that opening scene where he points the gun at the cab.

[00:43:51] Yeah. Oh man. So nonchalant. Yeah. Not only is it nonchalant that he's pointing the gun at him. It's nonchalant when he starts threatening him and shooting at the cab and you know, shooting outside the cab to try and get him to go.

[00:44:02] It's like he's he's just like, here's a problem. I'll try and deal with it. You know, like... So affectless is the word I want to get to here. Not to gang up on this movie, but just because it's the recent term, a Renner counterpoint.

[00:44:14] But I was like so frustrated watching Wind River because the entire time I was like, don't let Renner go full cowboy. Like they let him lean into it too much and he's staring off in the middle distance and swinging.

[00:44:29] You know, the thing they say about revenge is, you know, it's a lot of that. I actually kind of wanted Wind River to just be more of a Western though. Like that. I was like, snow Western, give me snow Western. And then it turns into this like

[00:44:41] revenge drama. Yeah, but you watched this. Ben would probably love it. But then it sounds great. It kind of has this last act turn that I just I just couldn't. Is there like a skiing thing? Was it a snowmobiling? A lot of snowmobiling. Snowmobile is his horse.

[00:44:57] Oh, for fuck's sake. Ben, you'll love it. He's like, it's one of the... He works for the Department of Fisheries and an early question that Elizabeth Olson asks him is like, what do you do?

[00:45:05] And he's like, I kill predators because he like his job is to like shoot predators who would attack animals. It's also a movie about a white man who knows the land of the Native American. Yes, yes, yes. And he refers to the Mrs.

[00:45:18] People because his family because he has a Native American son. So is the river made of wind or? It's a Wind River Native American Reservation. It's a real place in Wyoming. That's what it's named after. My point is the thing I rewatching this movie

[00:45:30] because when this came out, I had seen I hadn't seen Dahmer, but I had seen Renner and some other stuff and never was really crazy about him. I remember he was the one guy in Jesse James. I wasn't totally on board with.

[00:45:42] He would often really be amped like very high. Felt a little extra. Small roles felt a little extra. There's a little bit of that Ben Foster thing where it's like, you can take it down a notch. You don't need to do that much.

[00:45:52] He's trying to win most acting, you know? And I saw him in this and went, geez, he is so fucking unaffected in this. There is no affectation whatsoever. This is like this kind of really straight shot, honest American leading man that we don't have right now.

[00:46:07] That James Cagney line about, you hit your mark, you look the guy in the eyes and you speak the truth. But it's funny because that disaffectation is sociopathic. And I'm not trying to use too many psychological terms, but it is so interesting. For this character.

[00:46:23] She sees him in Dahmer. She sees him playing Jeffrey Dahmer. And she's like, I know, I'm going to make you a fucking war hero. Right. And what does that mean? You know, like being that person. And why would she go on to him? Right.

[00:46:34] She cast Mackie, she said, off of Half Nelson where he plays like an incredibly charming drug dealer who's trying to like completely subvert this young girl. And I forget what she said. She cast Garrity off of, I think Jarhead. I think he was in Jarhead.

[00:46:49] But she cast two guys playing like criminal roles to play the two heroes of your movie. You know, he is in Jarhead. She understands like how twisted. Twisted. Both of these guys are. But it's funny, well, I have so many feelings about that too,

[00:47:04] because I feel like it's not even that she's saying that these that these boys are twisted. And I say boys, because I feel like there's a sense on what she cares about. Let's say the word. Say what she's not saying.

[00:47:15] She said, well, I don't even know what you think I'm going to say now because I sort of feel like it's for fuck's sake. I sort of feel like it becomes this narrative about what war means and what war does to people.

[00:47:29] One of the things that I really love, like and we're talking about this, we're talking about Will James, Jeremy Renner's character in the context of Cowboys or in the context of American heroes. But what I was actually thinking was that this character, this like blood crazed warrior

[00:47:46] is like this universally human character that you could point to throughout history. Like someone who has a wife and family and goes back and like cannot relate to the domestic sphere anymore. And it applies to the Western, to the samurai film,

[00:48:00] to any sort of archetype of the warrior and any culture at any time period. I was thinking about, you know how in Gladiator, how he's like obsessed with his wife and kid and it's like funny how this guy is like kind of the perfect Roman warrior

[00:48:12] because he doesn't fucking care about his wife and kid. He wants to be in Germania forever or wherever it is forever. I just thought that was so interesting. Like it's almost like she's saying, war is this thing that needs this person like this in order to exist.

[00:48:26] War is a drug and she gets a drug. And what's interesting about this guy is that he doesn't seem to be looking for any of the sort of glory or the acclaim, you know? Yeah, he just can only work like this. Right, like something like American Sniper,

[00:48:38] which is so much about how Chris Kyle became this like fucking legend within the military, out of the military. He just is this guy that like he doesn't really have a reputation that precedes him. But think about it, like in American Sniper,

[00:48:49] the whole mystique about Chris Kyle is he has the most confirmed kills of any sniper ever. Right? It's some number. I can't remember what it is. And then there's the scene in this movie, which is my favorite scene in the whole movie

[00:48:59] when David Morse, one of her great one scene actors in this movie which there are three comes up and he's like, how many kills, how many kills? And he's like, I don't know. He said, come on, how many? And he says what is like 800?

[00:49:10] And he's like hardcore your heart, your wild man, your wild man. And Renner's like, yeah, I guess so. You know, like he's not allowing himself to be like. He also knows the exact number. He knows the exact number. It's not kills, it's missions. It's just armaments.

[00:49:24] I mean, I meant not kills. Bombs, yeah, bombs. And the funny thing is he doesn't want to, like Tanya said this, she was like, he didn't want to tell anyone. He didn't want anyone to know that. And I love that too.

[00:49:33] It's like his little thing of bomb things. Like weird fucking box of trophies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He does it for the love of doing it. Like that's what's weird about this guy. Right, right. And he knows it's weird.

[00:49:45] He feels that shame over how reliant he is on this thrill. It's also like a conversation he's having with a person who's not there because I mean part of what's great about these scenes, in my opinion, the bomb scenes is that there's no villain.

[00:49:59] Like we're saying, maybe there's someone who's lurking over there. Maybe they have a camcorder. Maybe they have a cell phone, but we don't even know. But the villain is the machine. The villain is right. And the villain is nowhere, right?

[00:50:09] But the villain is everywhere and could go off at any time. It's a very good metaphor for what weird quagmire wars that we get ourselves dragged into. But there's no villain, but he is kind of like, what were you thinking about making this?

[00:50:21] Like especially when he's in the car, he's like, not in the, man. You know, like, and the more mysterious it gets for him, the more intrigued he is by it. And then when he finally gets his little switch or whatever, he's like, oh yeah.

[00:50:31] There's a certain appreciation of the craft. Yeah, the bombs that he's trying to do. Which makes sense for a man whose job is undoing craft, I guess. You know, like. And there's something about like. And I love that earlier scene where he pulls out the battery.

[00:50:44] The first bomb. And the guy who's probably the trigger man is running away and he's just like, look at God. He shows it to him. Oh my God. He doesn't even care about the guy. He probably knows that's the trigger man. He doesn't care.

[00:50:55] He's just like, I got it. And when he's pointing the gun at the guy in the cab. And I feel like when I was watching this, cause it's like, it's your first scene really where you're looking at like a guy, like an Iraqi person presumably

[00:51:07] who may or may not have something to do with this. You're looking at him out in the face. He's got the gun. Like he's pointing it at him. He doesn't kill him. Right? You stare at him. You, the audience are wondering

[00:51:16] what the fuck is going through this guy's head. And we know nothing about William James. A cab into this intersection is just so constrained. He backs up and William James says, if that guy wasn't an insurgent before, he is now. And I was like, he doesn't care.

[00:51:28] He doesn't care about who the bad guy is. Like that's crazy to me. Like I don't even know. But what good fucking character building. Like I'm the first scene of this movie. You're like, I need to lean in and figure out who this guy is. Yes.

[00:51:42] But we should talk about the first scene. We're sorry. Well, no, just I was about to say the comparison between Guy Pearce doing that. The structure is just so perfect. This movie does a beautiful fucking Drew Barrymore and scream, especially because at the time of this movie,

[00:51:54] Jeremy Renner's not well known. And theme act, he's one of those that guys. Sure he's been around, but yeah. But you're going into the film and I remember there was, I mean they included a good amount in both like Guy Pearce and Ray Fiennes in the trailer.

[00:52:05] If I remember correctly, cause they were like, here are the two faces people will know. We'll put them in the trailer. So you feel comfortable. Right. But both of those guys die so fast. One scene die in five minutes. Yeah. But the movie starts out with Guy Pearce

[00:52:18] and he's doing a very classical kind of like hero soldier kind of performance. The way he's talking about everything. Yes, you know, you're totally right. He's got some good jokes, some good one liners and he's fucking handsome as shit. He's fucking charming. He's a little bantery.

[00:52:33] They all love him. And you're like, right, this is the lead of this war movie. I totally get the movie I'm watching right now. She fucking kills the shit out of him. It's not what she can. It's so good. It's over all. I mean, because...

[00:52:44] It's a good scene too. Because you're with them right away. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think it's good what they're doing. Oh my God. And then she's like... And the guy with the cell phone in the butcher shop and you're like so focused on him

[00:52:55] and you're like, what did he do? Did he do anything? And then also at the same time, what a fucking indictment of war this turns into so quickly that you're like, look how fucking awful this is. They don't know what they're doing. They have this shit ass robot

[00:53:10] that is supposed to go do this stuff for them. Like, what are we doing here? Is like the first feeling out of the movie. I feel... I'll say this too. I know David, you said that Bigelow's gone like, I wasn't in jail.

[00:53:22] You know, I wasn't unable to make a film. I was doing other stuff. But there is a sense of this way where it's like, this is my chance to make it count again. You know? For sure.

[00:53:30] Like I lost one of my men to my head in the 90s. She hits the ground running and this movie just like from minute one, you can tell she's like, I'm going to make this count. It's like a defiant movie. Right? Like yeah.

[00:53:43] There are very few movies I've seen build a sense of tension and dread this immediately. Like from like second 15, the movie's tight as a drum and you're like fucking on edge. You can't look away. Like it's very engrossing.

[00:53:57] Like this is someone who has to leave it all on the field. And as someone who was like addicted to my phone for me to say like, I can't look away, that means I'm going to get through it. I've seen it doesn't matter if you're watching it.

[00:54:06] Very compelling. I was like watching a chunk of it, like on my fucking iPad in a bagel chop. And I was just talking. I'm watching the hurt locker. Why were you doing that? Because I fell asleep watching it last night and I had dance appointment early this morning.

[00:54:19] So I had to watch the second half of it. How's the dentist? Good. I have a protruding gum flap. Oh, interesting. I have like gum that says something you've always had or is a new thing. There's like, let's get into it.

[00:54:31] So they removed like three of my wisdom teeth like four years ago, but there's one they didn't remove because it's right on a nerve. And they were like, there's a 15% chance if we take it out, it will cause a Stallone. Oh, what? So that's just Stallone?

[00:54:43] You'll have like a Stallone kind of like, you know, or best-kiss scenario, like a Ruffalo kind of. Like a dropped mouth type of thing. A little bit of a droop. Yes or no. Oh, thank you. Right, so they didn't remove it but then what's been happening now

[00:54:54] is my gum has been like growing over the wisdom tooth that hasn't been removed. So a shit gets caught under there. Why don't we have these things? Teeth, get rid of them. Fucking dumb. I think it's so dumb that we have wisdom teeth.

[00:55:08] Yeah, some people have evolved to not have them anymore. Sure. Wisdom teeth. Which is obnoxious. More like the dumbest teeth. They're dumb. I think they're dumb. Okay, thank you. Then fucking answer the question. Why do we have wisdom teeth? Oh, some leftover, right?

[00:55:22] Yeah, some leftover shit from like prehistoric stuff. Like, cause we probably had to fucking chew this shit out of some raw ass meat. Well, then probably you would have fucked up a lot of your teeth before then by that point. So you need your 30 year old tooth.

[00:55:35] It's the extra tiger in the trunk. We have our tailbones too, you know? Yeah, I just actually used that. I just was talking about this. Hey, our teeth fall out as kids and then grow back. That's crazy. That fucking sucks. Teeth are so fucked up it's like, yeah.

[00:55:49] They're like, you know, I was reading a fingernail saying they're like horns. It's the same process. Oh. We're just weird. Bodies are really weird. Animal end. I just want to say this from the record. My one remaining wisdom tooth is literally the least intelligent tooth in my body.

[00:56:06] Dumb ass tooth. It's fucking everything up and showing no remorse. And I keep on going like, what are you doing? It's like, what? It's fucking dumb tooth. Yep. Fucking up my mouth making me watch Hurtlocker in a bagel shop. Guy Pierce dies. Guy Pierce dies. Very quickly.

[00:56:22] And Owen could have saved him but he doesn't. Owen could have shot the guy with the cellphone. Oh, and this introduces another very interesting character I think, the fucking army therapist, the army psychologist. Christian Camargo. Cambridge. Who we all know is the ice truck killer.

[00:56:38] That's all I know him as really. The ice truck killer. I don't know who this guy is either. He's in Dexter season one. He's sort of the big bad. Never watched Dexter season one. The inclusion of this guy so interesting, right? Yes.

[00:56:47] The inclusion of him and of David Morse as these authorities who have no fucking clue what's actually happening. Right. That is a little more of a gung ho asshole. One of them is more of like, no we're here. I mean the scene of Christian Camargo's character

[00:57:01] interacting with this citizens where he's like very nice country, very nice. This area is a little dangerous if you want to move. And he's talking to someone who is putting rocks into a wheelbarrow. Like the guy knows it's dangerous. Well remember he says to go in rubble around.

[00:57:17] In his first yes and then in his first scene he says to Owen, the army could be, this could be the best time of your life. Like he's trying to be like, look think of it as an adventure and you're in a new place.

[00:57:31] And like on one hand, of course he has to say that because he's fucking, but on the other hand I wanted to punch him in the face. It's sort of like. I was so disgusted. It's like if your sister sucked like, you know,

[00:57:43] but like the way like he's viewing it like he's watching a movie about people and more. And it's like, oh what an interesting like psychological condition he's got there. He's got an interesting coping mechanism. This could be really interesting for you

[00:57:53] if you like are able to process it later. And it's like, fuck you. Like I'm in the midst of this shit. The fact that he's literally named Cambridge. That he's named Cambridge and then Owen says like, oh when was that at Yale? Right, right, right.

[00:58:06] And it's like, I don't know. That to me, that's such a crucial veteran dynamic. Well sure, but this is also a movie about enlisted officers and he is not, he's an officer. No, he's an officer about enlisted soldiers. Cause even Renner who is the highest ranked,

[00:58:20] he's a staff sergeant and they are all enlistees. Right. And I don't even know if it's, if he's being an asshole. I think he is just demonstrating the absolute like cool, shallow pool they have to draw from. He's not. Matt, do you know how glib that is?

[00:58:36] I don't know what that is. Your glib, Matt. It's Tom Cruise's Scientology interview with Matt Lauer. Your glib, Matt. You don't even understand how glib you sound right now. No, he is glib. He said glib like 20 times. And also it's like he has, that's his best,

[00:58:49] you know, weapon to draw when Brian Garrity is venting his real complaints. He's like, yeah, no, I know, but think about it. You're in a different country. Yeah. Like, that's the best he can come up with. It's like a school guidance counselor telling you

[00:59:03] that like those kids picking on your building character for the future. Well, okay. Look, clearly you have a lot of access to grind against a lot of school guidance counselors. All right. So Guy Pierce's character dies. It's very traumatic and I think it is very powerful

[00:59:16] how powerful it is given you only have 10 minutes with him. Like you feel his loss, right? Yes. And Bigelow pulls a couple of jazz hands, camera moves at the end of this where she does the super slow motion shots of like the rust. The things fall.

[00:59:30] That stuff's unbelievable. The blood in the helmet also really gets me. Which is like a flash, you know, like linger on it. Cause most of the film is 16 millimeter. Those couple of shots feel very high resolution. They feel like they went to 35 or shot on digital or whatever,

[00:59:43] and it's super slowed down. And you're seeing the effects of these bombs in like real time, which like obviously an explosion is an explosion. Right, yeah. But to see that micro kind of like result makes you understand the actual impact of what we see in the future.

[00:59:56] I also didn't realize, I'm sorry, I interrupted over here. No, no, that was the end of my point. But like I also didn't realize as someone who doesn't know a ton about explosions and also only sees TV explode, like you know, or like dumb sort of flashy explosions

[01:00:08] in our pop culture that like you, that he could die from like, does that make sense? I didn't realize that he could be that far away and something would blow up and he could still die. And I actually thought that was really useful too,

[01:00:19] just in terms of establishing what the stakes were too, that it's not gonna look like what you're used to seeing. And also I think their reaction to when he dies where you don't have any like platoon drop to the knees, like cry up at the heavens thing.

[01:00:32] Like they were just buddy, buddy with this guy. This guy feels like the lead of the movie and now he dies and they're like, fuck. They go to that like box, and Macky throws the dog tags in. But just kind of like they probably lost

[01:00:45] like six guys like this, sometimes above them, sometimes below them, you know? Yeah. Now in comes cut almost immediately after that one scene to James. Now my brother, the officer. In the first right, Jamesy, in the first scene he's pretty nice where he's like,

[01:01:02] I'm sorry about your guy, I'm not trying to replace him. I'm just here, you know. Handles it exactly the way you're supposed to. Listen to new metal. Listening to new metal. Is it ministry? Is that the band? Yes, listening to metal. That's just metal. Very interesting choice.

[01:01:15] Like I just thought that was perfect anyway, go on. The only weird thing he does if it's weird at all, though we all sympathize is he's like, let me take this cardboard you've just nailed, not car, you know plywood you've nailed to the window

[01:01:25] off because I like lights. Natural light. He's also, he's got this weird smushy face. Jeremy Ronner with his weird smushy pug face. He constantly looks like a kid who is just putting a time out. I find Jeremy Ronner very handsome,

[01:01:39] but he's got a weird face and he's just got this like resting kind of like grumpy face. Well, to maybe more to the point, he doesn't have a face, like he doesn't look necessarily like the lead of your movie. He does not. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[01:01:53] But I also think I saw him on some talk show recently and he was saying how he has a hard time interacting with children because his resting face looks unfriendly. He said that! Yeah, he did. That's why I'm not.

[01:02:03] I don't feel like I'm fucking mocking him right now. And I think he's a friendly grumpy face. A resting grumpy face? Which is why I think he's so good in the Mission Impossible movies because his role there is the kind of like, I don't know, you know.

[01:02:16] He looks disapproving. I said he looks like a kid who just was putting a corner for time out. I know, you know, you've said it twice. He looks like a kid who is just going to achieve. Shut up. Christ. Almighty, thank you so much.

[01:02:26] I'm sorry, I just stepped out. Sure, he looks like a kid who was putting a corner for time out. Ben, you were supposed to be the voice of reason. Mr. Ben, A.K. Perdure and A.K. the Benducer, A.K. the Poet Laureate, A.K. the Peeper,

[01:02:36] A.K. the Haas, A.K. Mr. Hositive, A.K. our finest film critic, A.K. the Poet Laureate, The Fuckmaster, The Meatlover, Birthday Benny, Dirtbike Benny. He is not Professor Crispy, he is The Fuckmaster. He has graduated to certain titles of the courts of different major,

[01:02:50] such as Kylo Ben, Perdure and Kenobi. Ben's eights, Ben like, Chamelon, say Benny thing, Ailey Ben's with a dollar sign, Warhaw's and the fucking Perdure Bane. Oh man, Perdure going all the way back. Perdure Bane. Okay, so. Thank you for catching me up. Anytime.

[01:03:07] Bane would be useful in this movie. For you. For you. You're a big guy. I could do that all day. David just cracked himself up so much and no one else laughed. It's very painful. You're a big guy. Watching this. Crushing this plane.

[01:03:25] Your Bane is now also starting to sound more like Marvin the Martian. Crushing this plane. No, mine was always the one that sounded like Marvin the Martian. I thought, oh right. And then Ben ran with it and Ben does a better Marvin the Martian.

[01:03:38] He does a good Marvin the Martian. Let me your ears. Take control. Take control of your suit. Oh boy. Boy, oh boy. My point is. Please. That this movie shot almost 10 years ago when Renner does look noticeably younger in this film.

[01:04:03] I didn't realize that this movie had come out that long ago. It feels like a more recent film. And then you watch it and you're like, oh right, it has been almost a decade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's nine years old. He's fresher faced in this,

[01:04:11] but there is something when you have this introductory shot of him sitting in a car silently, right? Not thrashing, not looking angry with no emotion, listen to mystery. Just with this weirdly kind of downturned face. And then they like retrieve me. He's like, oh yeah, sure.

[01:04:29] And you're like, oh, this is the guy at neutral. This is the guy like happy. And his first bomb diffusal is what I love this scene. This is my favorite, probably my favorite scene in the whole movie, except for maybe David Morse saying he's a wild man,

[01:04:44] which is where, just cause I love again, Bigelow. Yes. The scene where it's like, they arrive at a scene, there's an abandoned Humphie. And they're like, so they walk around. And then they come across a group of men who are soldiers with assault weapons, wearing helmets and armor,

[01:05:05] cowering in a little alcove that they've all hidden in. Just hiding the shit out of them. And here's what they have to say. Somebody saw a wire over there. And obviously she, this isn't even comical because obviously they have very real reason to be afraid because as later,

[01:05:21] there are like six bombs over there. But then here comes Jeremy Renner in his weird fucking stay put marshmallow man suit. Exactly, he puts on his Play-Doh suit. And like he littered and Joanna, when we were watching, and she was like, how's that gonna protect him?

[01:05:34] And I was like, it's, it protects you from shrapnel. But like it's sort of a comical suit. Obviously can't protect you from like a bomb going out. You see like I Pierce is wearing it and then his whole fucking visor is bloody. It gets hit.

[01:05:46] And he does already 15 feet away at that point. It still didn't save him. But like just, I think this is what I love about her in this movie just tapping into that image of these men cowering in fear. These like paragons of masculine power,

[01:06:00] powering in fear because somebody saw a red wire and Renner's like okay. They're not even ashamed. That's one of the things that I think is so interesting. They're like go check it out. Yeah, we're fucking afraid. EOD, EOD. And now Renner is in his inflatable Sumo Halloween costume

[01:06:16] doing his cowboy walk over to the wire. Because also they're like, do you want to get the robot? And he's like, no, go check it out. They're freaking the fuck out. They're yelling into the walkie-talkies and there's so much noise. He tosses a smoke grenade behind him

[01:06:27] and they're like, why'd you do that? He's like, cover. Yeah. And it all makes perfect sense. Sure, right. Everything he does makes perfect sense. It does, it does. It's just alarming everyone. But they are freaking everyone around him is terrified and he's...

[01:06:38] We've seen Guy Pierce at the beginning who was like cool, confident, collected, didn't seem scared but also was like making jokes about it and Renner's just like, oh no, I'm good. Renner's actually not scared. Which scares them. There should be... Like right, there is intelligence

[01:06:53] in being afraid of things that are frightening. And he's spending no energy trying to calm them down, trying to reassure anyone of anything. This squad isn't going to be into someone who's not afraid of dying because they don't want to die. They want to keep living.

[01:07:06] And so right. And then Sanborn gets mad. Right, Sanderson. No, it's Sanborn. Oh it is, I wrote it down wrong. I think it's the second, no it's the second bomb disposal where Sanborn hits him in the face. It hits him straight in the face.

[01:07:20] And James is just like, hmm. That's the one at the UN building. Right, the first one is the one where he finds the bomb, he diffuses it and he's like okay, I think this is good. And then he lifts it up and it's that image from the poster

[01:07:30] where it's like six linked bombs. And she just, in a movie that's so, with such muscular editing. Muscular. This is one of the times where she holds the longest on a single shot, I feel like. As he really wrestles for this wire

[01:07:44] and then as you see them all come uncovered from the dirt, it's fucking unbelievable. So good in his Stay Puffed suit. Yeah. You know, behind his visor, communicating not with a big reaction but with a small reaction of like, huh. Yeah, yeah. That's a lot of bombs. Yeah.

[01:08:00] And pulls a gun from his Stay Puffed suit. That's such a great. And does that, that's so crazy. It's crazy that he has a gun even and he does the whole thing. That's all he really has, yeah. That's incredible. So that's the first set piece

[01:08:12] and they don't love that. Yeah. His squad doesn't love that. Okay what the fuck's going on with this guy? And then the second set piece, like you say, is the one where there's a car outside the UN building. Oh and the people are watching them.

[01:08:22] There's tons of people watching them in 360. There's some people filming them. And they are so scared. This is when he takes the suit off. When he goes. That's when he takes the stuff. There's enough stuff in here to blow us. And he takes his headphones off too.

[01:08:33] He throws them out. He goes, no, someone my kit and my cans. Is what he has. Got my tools? Got my tools? Yeah, yeah. He goes that dude. And yeah, he, someone has shot this car, tried to blow it up, lit it on fire. He extinguishes the fire.

[01:08:46] Yes. And after all that, he's like, so let's see what's going on here. Lifts up the trunk. There's like four million bombs. And then he, it becomes like, it's like solving a little puzzle box. He's like, where could it be? And he doesn't see. Not in the seat.

[01:09:00] It's like a children's book. Yeah, right. You're lifting up the flaps. It's like a thick cardboard. Is it in the glove compartment? Not in the glove compartment. Yeah, right. This is when he saves the thing. He saves the. Yeah, saves the little switch. The switch. Yeah.

[01:09:13] Because he's impressed with the artistry of this bomb. Right, the technique. There's this thing I always ran about, especially if you get two drinks in May, which is like, why do most movies pick the same fucking five jobs for its characters to have?

[01:09:25] And jobs that are not very interesting to watch on the screen. When watching anyone be good at their job is inherently fascinating, especially if it's a job you haven't seen before. And like watching him deal with the bombs in this movie, even if you don't understand

[01:09:37] what he's doing at every moment. This is clearly an actor who fucking prepared well for the role. Right. And they did their research. Is owning it, right? Yeah, yeah. Is in Tom Hanks pocket of just like exuding a level of control over his role in the film,

[01:09:49] but also just watching him try to figure it out. That process is fucking enthralling. Like aside from the tension there, there's additional tension from the juxtaposition of understanding the stakes of it, cutting to like Mackey and Garrity and all the other soldiers who were like,

[01:10:02] what the fuck is going on? And Renner just being like, it's not as much about whether I live or die as if I can like prove that I know what I'm doing by figuring out what the fuck is going on there. He doesn't want to be outsmarted.

[01:10:13] And then there's such a good false alarm with the windshield wipers. Yeah, that's great. Yes. But he's not to spoil or we're not spoiling, but not to jump ahead. We don't have to talk about it right now. But the only time he's really outsmarted

[01:10:26] is just because of iron bars. You know, it's like, it's not nothing intricate. It's just he can't get through it fast. He doesn't have the tools. So anyway, so there's those two scenes and I feel like interweaving are these scenes with him hanging out

[01:10:39] with Beckham on the base? Yeah. Beckham, Salt DVDs. It's genuinely surprising. Made by Christopher Sayek. It's genuinely surprising that he can make an emotional connection with this kid because he sort of failed to make an emotional connection at this point with his unit mates.

[01:10:52] Like, I thought that was... And then you do find out he has a son, and you're like, oh, what does this mean? He does seem to struggle with military chains of command much more than he... Like he's cool just talking to this kid. Yeah.

[01:11:06] But I think the key to it is that this kid is so guile-less. You know? He likes that the kid is just... Well, he likes how... Got a couple balls on him. But the kid's a... The kid's a food operator. I love that kid. He's like, great movies.

[01:11:19] The best movies. He's using hip-hop slang. He's using the N word? Yeah, that's his opening line. That's his opening line! That's like the third word he says in this film. And then Jeremy Renner's like, this DVD was bullshit. It was like... He's like, no, it's great.

[01:11:33] No, it was bad. And he's like, well, okay. What are you doing? But I think that's what Renner takes to is like, this kid is the Jeremy Renner of selling bootleg DVDs. You know, he's as obsessive and determined and focused. He identifies something.

[01:11:46] Kind of like the sport of it. Whereas these other guys, he doesn't fucking get what Anthony Macky's about. Yeah. All right. So after that... I'm just getting... He's a very episodic movie. Gary has this conversation with Cambridge, where he's just like, I don't like this guy.

[01:12:05] He's gonna get us killed. But he's also talking about his anxiety. Right. And he's like, I know what I'm seeing. Like, I know what I'm seeing. This guy's fucking reckless. He doesn't care about anyone. He's doing this for sport.

[01:12:14] That's a dangerous type of guy to have leading a mission. And then we have the refined scene. Right. And Macky's already pushed him in the face at this point. Yeah. Not the UN thing, because he takes his cans off. Yeah. Right. And then in the... Right.

[01:12:25] There's a scene where they're blowing up some explosives out in the desert. Loves. Oh my God. Oh, and to get my gloves. So like the absolute fearlessness of this guy. And sort of almost sociopathie, where he cannot pick up on like, how ridiculous a decision that is.

[01:12:41] And Macky and Garedy have this conversation. And Macky seems to be sort of like 60% considering it. Garedy's more like 25% on board. You know what I mean? Right. And it's not addictive, but it's like if we don't kill this guy, he might get us killed. Right.

[01:12:53] There's this sort of like slight, like very pragmatic philosophical discussion of like, look, we could blow him up. These things go off all the time. It wouldn't be that crazy. And wouldn't it be a lesson? Wouldn't it be a lesson in not breaking protocol?

[01:13:07] You would have to corroborate my report. But it's also one of those things where it's like, we're just having a conversation, right? And Macky never says no, but he also never says like, no, I want to do this. And he's holding the detonator the entire time.

[01:13:20] He's just kind of like... And there's a moment when he breaks out and goes like, haha, I was just kidding, man. Yeah. And then so instead it's just sort of like, and then okay, nothing happens. And just waves him around like a fucking two-fist.

[01:13:32] And I love that you just cut right to them in their Humvee. Like it's not like he then comes back and they sort of put the detonator back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This movie doesn't have a lot of shoe leather. And that's when they run into the men

[01:13:42] who are dressed in like Arab garb, but immediately we realize these are contracts. That's movies with our ratings. And inside this is my favorite scene of the movie. It's a great scene. This entire set piece I suppose, this entire thing, the way it plays out.

[01:13:55] She also does a thing here that you can only do with a movie star like that where you have a guy whose face is bandaged. And then second... And you know... I knew what is sort of this on eyes! His eyes! I was like, oh, it's right front.

[01:14:05] When did they have collaborated before, to be clear? Strange Doss. He's the star of Strange Doss. Yeah, I'm sorry, Strange Doss. Thank you. And I did a whole fine sidebar on our Strange Doss episode about him, I think being one of the best screen actors ever.

[01:14:20] The thing I forgot to mention in that when we were talking about how I think when he made this transition and this movie is sort of right when that transition is happening or it's been in progress for a little bit from being like super handsome, conventional.

[01:14:33] Your mom loves him, Tony sort of, prestige leading man to being a weird character actor. Voldemort's the one I forgot to talk about which I think his Voldemort's very underrated. I think his Voldemort's good. He's been Voldemort for a while at this point when this is happening. Sure.

[01:14:50] He's the first Voldemort in 05 in Goblet. Which is the fourth movie. Like they've talked about this guy a lot. And then he has a lot more to do in Phoenix, which is 07 and then Half-Wilburin comes out this year. He's really fucking good in those movies. Like he actually...

[01:15:02] I think he's good. I think Voldemort is a really dull villain. That's sort of always been my... If I love Harry Potter, I've always found Voldemort to be not the most interesting thing about Harry Potter. Do you agree with me, Sonya?

[01:15:15] I don't know. I mean, you seem to be nodding. I think that Fines makes Voldemort more interesting. See, I agree. I think he's quite good. Sure, sure, sure. And I think you look at four seconds of fucking Johnny Depp playing Grindelwald

[01:15:27] and compare it to like five movies of Voldemort But how about those two hours of Colin Farrell playing Grindelwald? Yeah, it's good. Yeah, yeah, Slice it off. But that's like you look at Fines and it's like he's putting the exact right amount of paprika on the sandwich.

[01:15:42] And your task is be the most evil person who's ever existed. No, I know. Yeah. And of course, yes. Again, on the page, Voldemort's character, it's like what is he? He's right. He is a creature of pure evil. He's just evil.

[01:15:52] But you don't want to do too much. You don't want to do too little. You don't want to let the like visual effects of the look do too much like baggage for you. But this is like, yeah, he's at this point now

[01:16:01] where his leading man image is being distorted because now by and large, he's Voldemort. Like to a generation of filmgoers, he's Voldemort. He's that noiseless fuck. I mean, what I like about Voldemort, not to go on too much of a Harry Potter thing is more it's not

[01:16:13] it's never really about him. It's about the people who are drawn to him, right? Like it's like and that's not to I just think that everything in all pop culture can be related through Harry Potter. And it's very reflective of I agree. And it's really fucking irritating

[01:16:25] to be perfectly honest with you. Our next main series is Voldemort, by the way. We're not picking a director. If you guys do the Harry Potter movies, it would be very funny actually. I think that we might have some fun with the Harry Potter movies, but they're in,

[01:16:39] you know, they're not great movies. Yeah. No, but it is an interesting. A really excellent movie. We do. Is it? Is it the third one? Is it prisoner of Escapade? No, but that one's really good to me. That one is good.

[01:16:52] I think the last one is really strong. You're gonna say Half-Blood Prince. Half-Blood Prince is my I think that is a stupendous movie. That's a great movie. And Seven Part One is a great movie. Seven is Seven Part One is a very interesting movie.

[01:17:03] I think it's like actually well. I think it's pretty good. I like all the Yates movies, which are five through seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've never said this on the podcast before and it wasn't like a very long conversation.

[01:17:15] But when we were ramping down our Star Wars days. Ramping down. And we're trying to decide what to do next. We did consider doing Harry Potter. Like Ben was like, what if we did Star Trek? What if we did Harry Potter?

[01:17:26] Like there was that thought before we went to a director mode of like, are there other franchises we could do this deep dive into? And then we decided that was not the thing to do. Right, but yeah, no, I guess we floated it.

[01:17:36] There was like a moment where we thought like, what if we did, yeah, that would be cool to do. Quarrel would be a very easy choice for us. I think it'd be really interesting. I think that would be great

[01:17:45] and it's sort of weird that we haven't talked about him more. Because he's a classic blank check director. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Especially now. Yeah. Where he's just like, now I'm gonna buy my time. I think that's the biggest reason we haven't done him yet

[01:17:55] is that gravity is gonna be his blank checkiest movie. Like we need to wait to see what that is. He's shot something that hasn't... Yeah, Roma, which I don't... Small like characters. It's like a family drama, I believe it's set in Mexico

[01:18:08] and we don't know much about it because it has not yet. He shot it a while ago though and it's still no one knows anything about it. Now I'm looking this up. Yeah, but we don't know much about it. I think Quarrel would be good though.

[01:18:18] I mean like for sure because also because he hasn't made that many movies. But you wanna see what he does after gravity because dude's got that fucking check. Yeah, but I also think it's amazing that he got to make gravity after children of men.

[01:18:29] I think that's like a really interesting because children of men was not a success but because it was so critically claimed and got all the surprise Oscar nominations they were like, okay, all right, fine. And obviously, and also stars wanted to work with him. Right.

[01:18:43] But yeah, it's like... What is his breakout movie? A Little Princess. But like is that a breakout movie? Because that was just like a solid... Honestly, his real breakout is each of them. That's right, you're right. But it is funny that he makes this small independent Mexican film

[01:18:59] then he makes A Little Princess in Great Expectations. I think he made A Little Princess first. Yeah, no, but no, but it's called Solo Tancu Paranjo. Oh, that's what you mean. Okay, yes, go on. And then A Little Princess Great Expectations then Ita Mama Tambien

[01:19:13] then Harry Potter, Children of Men, Gravity. Like it's an interesting contained run. His collaborator was his son? Oh, Jonas Cuaron. Yeah, who just directed the film. That movie that I... Desierto last year that is basically... Gravity in the Desert? No, it's a straight up horror movie about like

[01:19:34] what if a crazy American guy just tried to shoot Mexican immigrants trying to come over the border with a gun? Really? And I don't think it's a good movie per se. It was an interesting idea, but it's very, very blunt and direct.

[01:19:47] And it's just Jeffrey Dean Morgan plays the crazy American guy, which is the very on-the-nose casting. And that's Gail Garcia Bernal. Gail Garcia Bernal is the main immigrant trying to make it over the border. There are others too, but that movie is brutal. So the Hurlaker.

[01:20:03] At this point, have we gotten to the drinking scene yet? Or that happens after... Well, no, well, so first is Ray Fiennes. I want to talk about Ray Fiennes for a second. I want to talk about the first second. This effect of if you don't recognize Ray Fiennes

[01:20:15] by his eyes, the second he pulls off the scarf, everyone in the audience goes, oh, familiar face, she pulled a fast one on us. It's immediately diffused because it's a movie star. And also, the idea is they're like, who are you guys? Who are you guys?

[01:20:26] You don't look like soldiers. Who are you guys? And they pull it off and he's like, you fucking American. And you realize... And he said like, you guys are really wound up tight or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You immediately feel comfortable with this guy,

[01:20:35] but I love the fact that he's so cooperative and he goes along with it. He seems like renner-ish in that he's unflapped, unflap-bullish. Seems like a bit of a cad. He's a little rare, right? And they're bounty hunting essentially, right? With their fucking play?

[01:20:53] Their contractors, they've got the deck of cards, which is a real thing, which is obscene, but anyway, that's fine. Do you remember when they were selling those in New York that was like a big thing that like... A lot of like... You could buy them on the internet.

[01:21:06] It was like fucking crazy. But people had them on the street in New York a lot, I remember, they were like a hot fucking item. What a weird time. It was not good. This is the Blackwater, right? Essentially. That's what these people, they're British. They're British.

[01:21:20] They're whatever, but yes. And all of course, lots of different companies were crawling around the Middle East. So they start being like, you guys are round up tight. We're the cool people who get it. And then they get massacred. They're like the senior to renners, freshmen.

[01:21:38] And they get massacred by no one in particular, just some guys who are in a little... They'll probably snipe us who are trying to free their captives. No, yeah, right. But it's not like these are villains that we have any sense of. They're just black people.

[01:21:53] They're not in the Ducca cart. And then you have this drawn out, incredibly thought through sniper scene. That's incredible. That part of it is that they just have to wait like a very long time. And Renner, I think, I mean, sorry,

[01:22:11] James steps up and is the captain in a way or the leader in a way that he hasn't been before. He does. He deals with that all like totally professionally. He coaches them and brings the best combatness out of them.

[01:22:26] Right. He does it all right, which is right. Yeah, he's just, he's still, you know, cause he's playing the spotter role for the sniper. He doesn't move, which is what you're supposed to do. He takes... He takes... He takes care of Simba. I don't know what to do.

[01:22:38] And he's like, you just got to make a decision. It's going to be okay. He coaxes him through it. He gets him to like take control of the situation and handle it. Owen gets to the point where he... Owen gets to the point where he does save them.

[01:22:50] He is able to do the thing that he was afraid he wasn't going to be. Right, the sort of ambiguous situation of like someone's approaching. I think they have a gun. Like what do I do? But there've already been a couple moments in the film

[01:22:59] where he's like yelling at Garrity, where he's like, God damn it, where's my fucking thing? Come faster. Come on, be on the ball. And then this moment when he's like, I need ammo. I need ammo. We're out of ammo. Get me ammo. So they look at that.

[01:23:09] I can't find ammo anywhere. Then the ammo has blood on it. Okay, it's stuck. Cleaned it off. I don't know how to clean it off. Here's how you do it. You're spitting rub. You expect that Renner's going to now really burst and just start yelling at him.

[01:23:19] He does it. And instead he just calms down. He's like, here's how we do this. Slives down to his level. He's like, you're good. You're a good soldier. You're doing a great job. You should feel really proud of yourself. Right. Yeah, he's like a soccer coach.

[01:23:29] So he's the perfect person. But the kid who's about to start crying. All of a sudden. And it really highlighted for me how fucking dumb the things that war requires are. Like that you have to clean the blood off of sniper bullets. With your saliva. With your saliva.

[01:23:44] That is your duty now, soldier. That is what you are being. In the desert. You know, you're a little dehydrated right now. Next to a dead Ray Fons. Yeah, exactly. Arguably the greatest actor of the 90's. Dead in the sand. Dead in the sand. Tell me your nominations.

[01:24:01] They don't count for anything. And all you've got is Capri Sun. Right? Like that's what they're looking at. Oh God, can I talk about this for a second? Maybe my single favorite moment in the movie. Then probably with the straws. But it's like, here's to me Renner.

[01:24:12] His job is professionally disarming. Explosive devices. And even he can't puncture a Capri Sun without it squirting out the top. Like I like this little argument the movie's making, which is like it is actually impossible. That's the real argument of this movie.

[01:24:27] The bomb diffuser is just like a diversion for the real boy. It's the most political part of this film. Is Katherine Bigelow just says like, I want to make it clear in case you've ever felt bad about getting Capri Sun all over your hands.

[01:24:39] That literally no one can do it. Impossible. He's trying and he gets the straw in and it squirts out the top. The odd thing to me is that it showed to me the institutional disinterest in these people's actual lives. Yeah, the Capri Sun Company as an industry.

[01:24:57] There's many times in this movie where something breaks or doesn't work and it's like what happened? It's a U.S. Army. What do you think they're doing? And it's like what's the something they need right now? They need sustenance. They need electrolytes. They need juice.

[01:25:10] Here's the shittiest possible way to open a juice. You are going to be stressed to fuck out and your hands are going to be shaking. If Capri Incorporated actually cared about people, they would put a little less juice in the pouch

[01:25:22] so that you could puncture it and get air before you have to squeeze. It's interesting they don't just turn it around and do it at the bottom like we did in school. I never fucking did that. Are you kidding me? Are you crazy? You've never thought about that?

[01:25:35] No, did you do that? I didn't drink Capri Sun that much. Oh, for... Oh, for... Okay. I'm not Christ. What were you drinking? Fucking... Ribena. What? Ribena. Drinking your Luccazade. I want to eat some more of your English candy while you're at it.

[01:25:53] Yeah, Luccazade is a fucking English candy. This is an American fucking podcast, David. I've really had some of this game. Have some Cadbury's, David. Okay, wait. Listen, I just threw four Cadbury's at David. You've never taken a Capri Sun pouch. I know what you're describing. I never...

[01:26:08] I never... The flattering. I've had a lot of doing that. What are you fucking kidding me? I'm not. Guess what I'm going to do when this fucking podcast ends? Buy a 12-pack Capri Sun. How do we even buy Capri Sun? Yeah, you got to.

[01:26:20] The reason I like the scene is because I think... I think it would be much easier to dismiss Will James if he was not the guy who he is in the scene. The men she moved up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Get me the juice.

[01:26:35] Get me the juice. And the Beckham jeans to be bare and hand. Punches it to Mackey. Without hesitation. Without sip it. Like very firm. It's like so loving in a way. Simultaneously, like you need to take care of yourself. And that's actually a very...

[01:26:46] I mean, to go back to the gender dynamics of it, there's sort of a maternal element there, right? And that's so interesting, like to think about how these men get masculine together. And like one of the things they have to do

[01:26:57] is care for each other in these very... And especially for a guy who's this unflappable and doesn't need anyone to hand him a packet of juice. He's totally aware of... The fact that he's aware that he's the weird one and everyone else needs to be like...

[01:27:09] You know, Garrett needs to be talked to gently. But sometimes... Just to move us off this. Because sometime right around this is the scene where they are essentially wrestling and drinking and punching each other. They're hyped up. They're hyped up. It was an insane day they had.

[01:27:22] And that's... They got high-fi. And they're smashing each other. Shout out to the Walmart. Yeah, they got high-fi. And they... I think that scene is so good. That's not what Sophie said to me. This is the most masculine movie I've ever seen.

[01:27:38] So tell me why you think it's so good. Because... I just think that a lot of filmmakers... And I'm not even saying this is a gender thing where she has some magical insight into men because she's a woman.

[01:27:50] I think she has magical insight into men to be clear. And it definitely helps that she's a woman. But she's also just a really good director. I think she also understands behavior really well. And she's really fascinated in the difference in behavior between masculine people and feminine people.

[01:28:02] Sure, sure, sure. But I'm saying most people would make this scene frightening. That doesn't mean that she thinks this scene is like a harmless expression of their excess energy. But most people would be like, this is a dark frightening thing that's being exposed to you.

[01:28:19] And she sort of shows it to be like rough housing. It is like a playground. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's my whole reason for this scene. Even when it gets intense, James' response is just like... You know?

[01:28:30] My whole reason for this scene is I was never a physical child. I hated playing sports. But also whenever boys wanted to rough house, I did not want fucking anything to do with that. I would hang out with girls on the playground and we'd talk about fucking whatever.

[01:28:43] Like I would spend time getting into girls' pop culture so I'd have subjects to talk about with them. I would watch all the girls' cartoons just because they'd be like, over there wrestling each other. Like what starts out as gentle play

[01:28:56] will very quickly turn to a physical fight. They're having fun. I will not have fun doing that. But there is that sort of rush that young boys have and it even goes on to like frappe boys in certain quarters of just like fucking headlocking guys

[01:29:08] and sparring and whatever. If you're not trying to hurt each other, that adrenaline rush of that kind of thing. And Jeremy Renner is a guy who never grew out of that. And now he's like... That was his like fucking gateway drug and now he's onto the harder shit,

[01:29:20] which is disarming bombs. It's the same level of like that threat of danger that I can prevent. But they all do it. Like I think it's not just Renner. And I think that it's almost like the military, the... Is the grown up version of that?

[01:29:35] The point you need to be. Right. A lot of people in the military for reasons of event just they want a rough house. Sure, sure. But it brings that out of people. Yeah, I agree. I think that either needs to be activated within you

[01:29:45] or you're someone who seeks out that kind of thrill. It is a heightened version of what makes five year olds without any sort of deliberate, you know, intentionality just start grappling with each other. Yeah. I never have that thing. What do I think women do too?

[01:29:58] Girls do too. Yeah, I think it's a different thing. But I think there's a very straight line between this kind of rough housing and becoming a soul. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And the fact that she identifies that. And I wonder if this,

[01:30:09] how much this is in the script and stuff because it's a kind of wordless scene. But like the fact that she identifies that as being so crucial to this narrative is amazing. This scene is also very well directed. Even if that was 100% in the script described as such.

[01:30:21] The energy of the scene, the tone of the scene, how it's depicted, the fact that it never does get scary even when there's like the knife out and everything. It's a tiny scary. Yeah, it's a little scary and that it's fine.

[01:30:32] She's walking a very fine line in this and the scene is always like perfectly judged. Why does, tell me something, why does Sanborn get to punch Renner, or James rather? He owes him one, I don't know. But I couldn't figure out what he owed him for. Oh.

[01:30:46] No, Renner got a shot on him. They do say something. It's when they're punching back and forth. Yeah, and he draws, Owen draws the big X with the thing. I just thought that was interesting. But then after this scene is what I think we already decided to be.

[01:30:58] They talk about the wife. They find, right? Yeah, right, right. And is that the scene where he shows them his weird box of, He finds the weird box. They find, He's feeling close to them. But the fuck is this? They all talk about each other.

[01:31:09] And the only time James gets pissed off is when they say shit about his wife. And he's like, no, no, no, she's just loyal. She's not stupid. And he's kind of like, and it's not even that charged, but he's like, don't go there. That's not, you know.

[01:31:21] And he also weirdly, I mean, he's very defensive of her, but doesn't seem to like very much. Exactly. And he just knows that he's not one to judge. He makes that fucking Henny Youngman joke about like, I said things that almost killed me about the wedding ring.

[01:31:33] Right, right, right. But the bigger point he makes is like, you have a wife and he's like kind of, I mean we got divorced, but then she didn't move out. We're still together. I don't know what you call that. I got a kid and everyone's like.

[01:31:43] She's stupid because you suck. So, but then we come to the difficult third quarter of the movie. Yeah. Because then we have the scene in the warehouse where they find a boy whose body has a bomb implanted in it. He's a body now. Body bomb.

[01:31:56] And James is insisting this is Beckham. Obviously we don't really get much of a look at the boy. So we're sort of in the dark. And his face is so bloody. Well, and in, right. And that is actually. He's a young boy. It's a young boy.

[01:32:07] We only really see of the children we see on the street. They're all boys. The girl children are not really out and there's a lot of boys and they're running, they run around the cars. They're selling DVDs, things like that. You see a lot of them.

[01:32:19] It's very interesting to me that both Sanborn and O.N. are like, is it that kid? They're like, I don't know who tells them apart. And then of course we do see Beckham later. Yes. But so much later that you go through this whole really fucking awful scene.

[01:32:34] Yes. Thinking that it might be this guy. This kid. Right. And where the point of this scene is even James seems to have reached his limits where he's just like, let's just blow this up. I also think this is the most political

[01:32:45] section of the movie because I think this function is like a microcosm for what she's saying about these wars, which is just like there was this weird sense of revenge we felt, a sense of injustice that needed to be corrected and he goes on this whole fucking

[01:33:02] fool's errand, doesn't even know really what he's looking for or if he's what he's looking for even exists. He's trying to find the guy responsible for a crime that didn't actually happen to the person he thinks it did. And it's almost like this,

[01:33:16] I mean, I think it is analogous to like searching for weapons of mass destruction entering these homes that he wasn't invited into feeling that he's doing the right thing and then that weird scene of him with the doctor where the doctor saying like, your guest sit down

[01:33:30] and he can't figure out like, why aren't you being antagonistic to me? Right. And then the woman, the wife comes out and is like, get the fuck out of here. It's amazing. Right. I think this is her section of saying like the whole relationship.

[01:33:42] I think it's his section, but Carrie, I don't know. Sure. But I think it's kind of interesting spot because it does function as character building. It is the moment where he's like, what the fuck am I doing now? I used to always at least be right.

[01:33:52] Even if I was crazy, I was correct. Right. And now he goes on this weird, like Jason Bourne side mission where he's like, we're in a fucking hoodie and he's got a gun and he's holding up drivers and whatever.

[01:34:03] He has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. Yeah. And it feels like like 2003. And how much harm he creates. Right. Like how much distrust he sows like the fact that he makes that poor DVD seller like feels so fucking terrified. Yeah, right.

[01:34:20] Where he essentially makes that man never have to never come back. He's ruining his livelihood. And he's ruined this guy's livelihood. It's tough a livelihood as it is. Right. But like in this completely ravaged place is the one thing this guy's got.

[01:34:32] So like he's ruining that guy's life. He's going into someone else's home. I mean destabilize a country. No, no, no. I mean, so I had not thought about it. This is the very height. And then of course, right after that is the scene

[01:34:42] where they go on this like quote unquote mission. Right. Which is very dark. Yeah. You know, just the three of them. And this is where anytime you read an interview with a soldier they're like, this is all ludicrous. No one would ever do this.

[01:34:54] Soldiers do not like this movie. No, a lot of this stuff. A lot of soldiers do like a lot of this movie. Yeah. Like in terms of getting the general vibe exactly. They say that the missions don't play out in a way that technically makes any sense. Sure.

[01:35:09] They're not talking over the radios and things like that. Things I think she deliberately chooses as storytelling measures of like, I don't want a bunch of scenes of people fucking miles away from each other talking over comms. So she keeps them close and everything.

[01:35:20] Also, he is a little bit of an anomaly in many ways. But it is, I don't know. Of course this scene, especially the scene where they go and split up, which is even within their stupid decision or another dumb decision, which is what gets Eldridge,

[01:35:35] Garrett is shot in the leg. I went out of a radical last night. So here's my question. Does it work? Does the movie work? Yeah. Does it make out this, I don't know how they resolve Beckham,

[01:35:47] but does this movie work if you take out the body back scene? I would argue that the Inferno scene, the like very obvious war is Hell scene, that is then followed with that side mission. That alone could tell the story of his adrenaline fix without needing. Yeah.

[01:36:03] I just, right. I think both of these things are on the nose. It's not my favorite part of the movie. I think the movie would work without it. I don't think it takes anything away from the film. Those are my three feelings on it. No, no, no.

[01:36:15] I just think it's interesting. I think it's all interesting shading within it. I like her sort of making this more allegorical point about the sort of like, I don't know, this feels right in the moment kind of like Ura mentality. Well, and it really,

[01:36:28] it makes the disorientation very visceral that like he literally doesn't know, he thinks he likes this kid and he literally doesn't, can't even recognize this kid. I think it's worth it for that moment. I think the moment when Beckham comes up to him and he's so fucking shaken.

[01:36:43] Right, I think that's such a good fucking payoff. It's great. I mean it asks you to like engage in a 15 minute red herring for that payoff. And the larger point when the rest of the movie is so like just constructed of these very...

[01:36:56] But then how interesting that the red herring is so detailed. I mean, I think that's part of it. Like it's not just that it's like a kid that he sees dead or a kid that he sees bloodied and he immediately thinks it's that kid.

[01:37:06] It's like he sees this kid dead, he eviscerates this kid in order to get exiled. Right, because he originally says let's just bomb the entire place. It goes like no fucking... And then he can't do it. So we see him cutting like, fuck it's not even surgical.

[01:37:21] It's not even sutures. It's like wire that has been used to like put this person together. A thing that does not happen. Like we know this does not happen in real life. I've seen to watch at a bagel shop. I kept on popping up this screen because people...

[01:37:32] I've seen to watch a scene that doesn't really exist. So these are... That's such a big swing to take for that one payoff. And I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I'm saying it's something. I agree with that.

[01:37:44] The other thing I'll say in defense of this sequence is it's the one time in the movie we see him totally out of his depth and his element. He knows how to do one thing particularly well. Right. Which is the sort of disarmament of the explosives.

[01:37:58] And when it's him doing person to person... Right. When it literally becomes a person. And the machine that has no face suddenly becomes a thing with the face. Right, sure. He only knows how to deal with like wires and bolts. But I don't.

[01:38:12] But it's weird because the movie has not really been about metaphor until that point. I agree. Yeah. I agree. It's a little on the nose. Maybe think of Bo Bergdahl a little bit to the vigilante kind of like. Mark Boll eventually tried to write a movie about.

[01:38:26] I can't believe you would bring up this podcast major rival serial season two. It's true. We are on the same level. It's the same kind of podcast. Same cultural impact. Same money made. By the way, our new spin off podcast Peeville

[01:38:40] which stands for poopville that launches next week. It's one story told over 27 parts. Peeville. Check it out. You just killed everything. Just dead. Brought to you by Mailcamp. Peeville. Oh God. Remember the old days of cereal? No, I didn't mean to cut you off.

[01:39:00] It was a simpler time. What was the simpler time? That was the first podcast. We had no idea what this would turn into. So after all this stuff, none of which I love but is all of it's okay. And then we already talked about what I think

[01:39:11] is the best scene out of all this which is the burst pipe scene as you put it the Anthony Mackie being realizing like I can't handle this anymore. That comes after the human this were suicide bomber guy with the locks. Oh, we're right.

[01:39:24] That's the scene we should talk about. Well and to quickly say this about that scene that him going into the shower is really intense too. I think and I think that there is a moment of self reflection there that there wasn't necessarily

[01:39:39] even though he gets over it really fast and kind of has this game face on when Owen goes in the chopper and fucking yells at him which again is the thing I really like. Fuck you, you did this to me. Yeah, fuck you, you did this to me.

[01:39:50] And James is like, you're still alive? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things are fine. I'm not just a pawn for you to get your thrills. He says whatever that line is which I think is a really concise like. It's the summary of the takeaway of the movie. Right, right, right.

[01:40:05] I'm not what you bet in order to try to win at the poker table. And then I would say that from this point on the movie is brilliant. Like back to being like. The 20 minutes or not. The innocent suicide bomber scene is so wrenching. It's completely wrenching.

[01:40:21] And I forgot when you said, you know, talking about forgetting the end of this movie. The body bomb stuff I had completely forgotten. I forgot about Beckham as a character. But that scene always stuck in my mind. Very, very viscerally of that feeling of him

[01:40:35] having to look at a guy in the eyes. As you said now there's a human face on it. Right? Yeah. He's like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And to recognize his fucking limits. Yeah. And it's as you said the frustration of

[01:40:46] it's not even that I've been outsmarted by this. It's literally I don't have the time and the equipment to take care of this. It's impossible. Right. It's impossible for me to stop this from happening. Right. That guy constantly the translator peeing over and over again.

[01:40:59] Like he's a good man. He's a family man. And Render is like, don't fucking psych me out with this stuff. Yeah. Like I'm already up against a lot. Don't make me feel bad in advance. It's quite a scene. It's quite a scene. Oh boy.

[01:41:12] And then it's it's seen so quickly. Well, it's seen so quickly from Anthony Mackie in doing his wonderful scene in The Humvee. Now he wants to sun before he wasn't ready. Yeah. And Render kept on saying like it's easy to put some sperm inside a lady

[01:41:26] and he's like, A gross. B not ready. And Render doesn't even understand why you wouldn't want to have a child because well, I have a child. I'm not there. That's not a problem. He thinks about just make a baby.

[01:41:37] But now Mackie is so strongly like, I don't want to be here. This is not what I want to be. I want to be a father. I want to have a little boy. I want to raise a boy.

[01:41:44] And then we go very quickly to he's in a supermarket. There's a hard cut. Yeah. Like what is the hardest cut I have ever seen? Tanya said it's flashback, right? And I didn't want to say anything. I was like, it's not like...

[01:41:56] I think the scene is so good. Oh, it's so. The supermarket? Yes. Because just that concept and I know like, you know, I have never really traveled to a country that is so far removed from my experience of the world.

[01:42:09] But I do know, you know, people who have describing that where you return in like supermarkets, especially... Supermarkets are crazy. Very overwhelming where you're like, right. Why are there 8 million cereals? Like what, like why is there like so much choice? Why it's like that it's very overwhelming.

[01:42:22] Like the whole environment is so alien. And it's sterile. And it's so sterile. And the fucking fluorescent lights. And the music. I would argue that that shot with him staring at the cereals what wins this movie best picture. It's so good.

[01:42:35] I honestly think that's the thing that pushes this movie over the edge. I think if this movie ended with like the Mackie scene, it would have been nominated. No, no, but totally. Having that as the coda, it's somehow like... No, you need that. ...retextualizes the entire movie,

[01:42:48] pushes it over the edge in such an elegant way. It's a scene with his wife. Right. Scene with his son. And she gets like... She has top billing in the movie for like two seconds of screen time. I think she's third built, right? Yeah. It's pretty...

[01:43:01] I think she's like fifth or something. But she's like before the end. You have that one phone call. It's a crazy villain. Morse, Fines and Pierce are all gathered in a sort of with and area. There's a lot of lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also Van Bam.

[01:43:14] But it's crazy how... How quickly... It's almost like you didn't realize how used you'd gotten to the Iraqi atmosphere. That's great, because she holds on that shot for so long. Right, until she snaps to the supermarket and then this cold wet,

[01:43:31] the exact opposite of a cold wet fall like the leaves. She's cleaning the leaves out of the gutter. And we've been doing the shots of like so close on Jeremy Renner's face that you're like picking note of the fly that's like buzzing around his mouth in his eye.

[01:43:43] Which all of that shit is so good. Yeah. But then when it's just like he's tiny. He's microscopic. He's never felt more insignificant than when he's faced with like two cans Sam. Yes. And like the Nesquik bunny. It's like wall of cereal.

[01:43:53] Right, and it's like here's one shot that sums up the entire movie. And then... And it's so masterful. And then everything, the supermarket and the scene where he's trying to talk to her about what he's seen. Yeah. These are two, I mean, and I'm paraphrasing Tanya here too.

[01:44:07] Very classic. Vets trying to reintegrate back into the world and fail, like end failing too. No, right? And then of course we're going to go ahead. Eventually Lily's high billing, right? Coupled with the fact that for a long time when she was trying to get this movie

[01:44:20] made they I think originally tried to do it with Colin Farrell. That would have been good. Right. And there was another, your favorite actor. Interesting. There was another baby pet. I think he's got too much face for it to be honest with you. Give me that face.

[01:44:33] I agree with that. He doesn't look smudgy enough. Yeah. He doesn't have that Jeremy Renner smudge. I can't believe I'm siding with the smudge now. Okay. But the other, this was when they were trying to make it for, you know, bigger budget, more commercial film.

[01:44:45] It said Charlie's there on to play the wife, which this is post monster. So I think at some point, I've never gotten this confirmed. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a version of the script and perhaps even what they shot where once he goes back home

[01:45:00] there's like 15 minutes as opposed to what really is in the film like five minutes or less. Right. I think she got there and once you have the supermarket scene it's like we don't need anything else. It sums it up so fucking well. So concise. Right.

[01:45:14] I have to imagine she shot more, especially because like this is her like peak lost. Everyone was waiting for the show to end so she could become a movie star which then didn't really happen. But I remember that being that thing of like someone's going

[01:45:24] to make Evangeline Lilly happen. Right? Let's make her an elf. Let's have her train Hugh Jackman to robot box. You know, like. No, I mean it's a really good point because what you, what you end up seeing is how,

[01:45:37] how quickly you come to the conclusion of the film. Cause I'm, So which is just that, oh, he's totally unsuited for this and he doesn't know how to do this. I'm watching it on my iPad and I'm on the Amazon app.

[01:45:48] Great company eating a bagel and I'm seeing how much time is like left in the movie and when it cuts into the supermarket I'm like 10 minutes left. Yeah, it's crazy. And your credits too. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was like how is there so little of this movie left?

[01:46:00] Right, but that's it because the only other, you just have the one shot of him. He talks to his baby. Talks to his baby. About the Jack in the box. Which is pretty, which is on the nose, but it's fine. It's good. And he sells it.

[01:46:11] He underplays it. I think he sells it. He sells everything. This is a remarkable start making performance. This is the monocle of self-awareness he has. He knows that for some reason he only wants this, but he can't really frame that,

[01:46:24] put that in the frame of the rest of the world. Exactly. I think the scene would go too far if he started explaining what he likes about it. Right, right, right. But to him it's exactly the same as the Jack in the box,

[01:46:33] which is like, I'm looking at this. This is a piece of tin and a stuffed animal. It should have no inherent intrigue. It used to for me. And now I found this new Jack in the box. I can't intellectualize it.

[01:46:43] I don't know why, but this is the one thing that fucking makes sense to me. Oh my God. I didn't quite realize that like the heart locker is the Jack in the box, I guess. Like... Something jacket. So this movie was first called.

[01:46:56] Which is also a cool title. The what? The something jacket. Something jacket. Something jacket. I think it's a cool title. And the heart locker in my mind is just where you put the pain, right? Yeah, that's what they sort of said. Yeah. It's like a term...

[01:47:08] Because there's a guy who sued Mark Ball and said that he stole everything from him. There was a soldier who like Mark Ball was embedded for a long time. He worked with a bunch of different troops and whatever. And he said there's this one guy who was like,

[01:47:19] I'm very much the Jeremy Rannan character in this movie. I was the one who said the heart locker to him. Wow. And they countersued and were like, heart lockers exist as a term since the Vietnam War. He worked with like 300 different dudes, their elements,

[01:47:32] their incidents and the case was dismissed. But it was this like term that stuck in Mark Ball's car that I think was... I want to make a movie about that sensation. These guys who just kind of keep on trucking.

[01:47:47] And then you have like what is the most kind of classically heroic like cowboy shots of Rennar in the movie. Which is him getting off the plane with a duffel bag, re-employment and then there's a quick cut. The shot of his boots.

[01:47:57] And now the boots become the stay puff boots. These boots are made for walking. Bomb diffusing? Yeah. The scene that the shot that just got me was when... So I think you cut to black after the... After you see the helicopters, you cut to black.

[01:48:13] And then it just slowly, the light comes onto his face. And it's just a few seconds long. But I was like, that's the whole movie. The whole movie is trying to see this person clearly. And it's just, it's so beautifully done I think too.

[01:48:26] And also not to like hit the Rennar smudge face thing too much. But there's an earlier moment I think when he's looking for, you know whoever he thinks body bombed Beckham. And you see Jeremy Rennar totally in silhouette. Yeah.

[01:48:42] That's that motherfucking movie star thing where no one looks like Jeremy Rennar. Like Jeremy Rennar in complete shadow from the side is distinctively could not be anyone other than Jeremy Rennar. Well, and that it should be he's entering from... It should be that he's entering into the darkness.

[01:48:59] The war is the darkness, but instead it's completely inverted and it's just so... He's a silly boy. It's so silly. And then he's beaming, right? He walks down with his Stay Puff Marshmallow Man suit. 365 days left. Beaming and it says 365 days left. He's killing it.

[01:49:15] And it's crazy because for everyone else it's like a life sentence or like it's a year-long sentence and for him he's like, thank God. So everyone when it comes out I remember... Because it was a big hit at the festivals when it played earlier. It was, it was.

[01:49:27] But then it had done with all these festivals. It's commercial. Sure, sure, sure. It comes out I remember almost immediately with their views everyone was going like, Catherine Bigelow, you know. Never a female winner. Like that was already the narrative. A little bit but this... No, no.

[01:49:40] I don't disagree with people. I remember when that movie came out people being like Oscar, Oscar, Oscar and I was like, it's a small movie. Like people were like Rennar and I was like I don't know if it's gonna last all the way.

[01:49:50] People were boosting Bigelow from the get-go. Refuse, because everyone wanted to see a female best director. I think that is a false narrative for this movie. I distinctively remember seeing it and people immediately talking about that. This movie came out, it was a little movie.

[01:50:05] It took a while. It came out in July. I didn't see it till at least August if not September because people were like, that movie's really good. I saw the opening week. Good for you. Thank you, I'm very proud.

[01:50:18] I don't think this is a movie that came out and right away people were like, I smell Oscar. I only remember them smelling Oscar for her. I don't know maybe. I think it happened fast enough because of course the narrative was always...

[01:50:31] Even Sophia Coppola when she got nominated she was never gonna win for best director for Lost in Translation. And she was only the third, fourth in history? I think... Campion, Wirt Mueller, Coppola. I think that's it. Bigelow was the fourth. And even though...

[01:50:46] Her very presence people were like, if Sophia Coppola won she'd be the first woman to win. And of course in the Oscars themselves when Barbara Streisand presented it and Barbara Streisand comes down and you're like, well clearly they think they know this winning.

[01:51:01] It's like when they had Lucas Coppola and Spielberg present to Scorsese. She comes out and she's like, the winner of this Oscar could be the first woman to win an Oscar. And everyone's like, and she's like, or could be the first African-American to win an Oscar.

[01:51:18] Everyone's like, oh right, Lee Daniels, sure. And you're like, right, there's a barrier we haven't crossed yet. And then she's like... And he's only the third at that point? Second. Is Singleton the only other black nominee? I think at that point now we've had Steve McLean, Barry Jenkins.

[01:51:32] Denzel wasn't ever nominated as director. As a director? Oh okay. Lee Daniels at that point was only second. It was Singleton... Because Jeffrey Fletcher who wrote Precious was the first black screenwriter to win. Look, the Oscars are embarrassing. I have a question.

[01:51:45] What were the other best picture films nominated? The other nominees that year... Because then she has to do all this other thing which is like, and if any of the other nominees win, they'll be directors who brought their own stories to their film where it's like

[01:51:56] they all wrote their movie. Some guy. Can you name the five nominees, Griff? There were 10 this year. No, no, no, five director nominees. Oh, the five director nominees. I want to know the best picture nominees too. Okay. The five director nominees were...

[01:52:08] Because it's a good year in my opinion. Were Lee Daniels, Katherine Bigelow, Jimmy Cameron for Avatar. Let's see. District 9 was nominated for best picture but not for best director. A Serious Man was nominated for best picture but not best director. Quentin Tarantino from Glorious Basterds

[01:52:28] nominated director and picture. That would have been my pick that year. I think that's a great movie. I think that's his best movie. Fuck you, Griffin. I think that's his best movie by... Do you really think that's his best movie? Yeah, I think a lot of people do.

[01:52:39] By a long shot. Yeah. Someday we'll do that episode. I got my whole read in that movie. I think that movie's a masterpiece. I've never seen it. And I have problems with him. I've seen other Tarantino films but I kind of can't with him.

[01:52:49] Oh, you haven't seen Glorious Basterds? I have not seen Glorious Basterds. Oh, I think you'd like Glorious Basterds. The two I will stand by... I did see Django unchained and I texted through it and really drove me crazy. I think they're very different movies. Okay, I appreciate that.

[01:52:59] Jackie Brown and Glorious Basterds are the two I will stand behind to my dying day. The rest of them I have complicated series of feelings about. Okay, go on. This is a great conversation that I don't care about. Keep going. Okay, wait.

[01:53:11] So let me think of the other ones. So you got seven... I have four out of five... Best picture nominees, four director nominees. Yeah. The fifth one is it's obviously another white guy. Yes. Single man didn't get nominated for best picture. I'm thinking through the acting nominees now.

[01:53:24] Crazy Heart did not get nominated for best picture. It did win, unfortunately. But it won Best Actor. Right, so that's that Monique One supporting. That's such a beautiful, processed watch. Yeah. Best actress that year, 2009 would have been Cedric Bollick for the blindside which is nominated for best picture

[01:53:37] but not best director. Of course. And then Best Supporting Actor that year, 2000... No, that's a crystal fault. So you're not... Oh, okay. You're not the actor of the... Okay, so then who would the fifth person have been? Give me a clue about the fifth Best Director.

[01:53:50] It's a dramedy. Oh, oh, oh. Ben pointed upwards because much like Aloha, this last nominee is all about this guy. It's Jason Reitman for Up in the Air. Oh, nice. So... Can you name the other two Best Picture nominees? Well, that's one of them, right? Oh, yeah.

[01:54:08] Can you name one? I only have one left. No, you have two left. I have two left. Up. Correct. There we go. Okay. The other up. And then the tenth one... Give me a clue about the tenth one. Oh, no, wait. You have them all. Thank you.

[01:54:23] You do have them all. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You have them all. Thank you. No, you don't. You don't know it's... What? No, that's not what I'm talking about. Oh, okay. There's an English movie. Yeah, there was an actress nominee in there. For lead? Yes.

[01:54:38] Is it a Miran? No. Is it a Dench? A young woman. A young woman. Very talented. Oh, oh, it's an education. An education. Oh. An education. An edumication. So those are the director and picture nominees. Of course, yes. This movie eventually rushes headlong into...

[01:54:55] It doesn't win any of the Golden Globes, which go to Avatar. It's this sort of rivalry with Avatar. There's this sort of media narrative of like, oh my God, big load camera, an ex-husband and wife. Yeah, I mean, and at the end of the year...

[01:55:06] Little movie, big movie, yeah. I feel like at the end of the year, Precious was the front runner. Everyone was like, this is a weird year because there doesn't really seem like a front runner. Precious was almost by default. Hurtlocker had been out of theaters for a while.

[01:55:16] At that point it was so small that people thought it really couldn't get traction. When are you saying that Precious was the front runner? Like November. Right, because then Hurtlocker sweeps... I'm saying pre-nominations. ...the critical award. I'm saying pre-nominations. Okay. When just everyone was seeing the movies,

[01:55:28] they were like, I guess it's precious. Avatar wasn't screened until very late. Everyone thought it was going to be a flop. And then when it came out, it surprisingly became this best picture front runner because it's a weird three-hour sci-fi movie. Well, and also when the best...

[01:55:40] Again, Streisand's like, you know, in one of these films is the most successful film ever made. Ever made. Which, and you're kind of like, right, Avatar. The most successful film ever made. I think if Avatar had made $350 million as opposed to $750 million, it would have won this picture.

[01:55:56] The narrative might not have been there. Oh, you're saying, well, anyway. I don't think it should have, but I think it would have. Maybe. I think when it crossed $700, everyone was like, we don't need to give him another fucking thing.

[01:56:04] I think honestly he was never going to win because of Titanic personally. But maybe. I don't think he was ever going to win Best Director. I think she had that on lock. I think if the movie had made a little less money,

[01:56:13] it would have won Best Picture just for the size of it. But here's my question, dude. Maybe. How do we feel about the narrative of James Cameron like seeding... It's annoying. ...seeding his Oscar win to his ex-wife? I agree with that. I think it's kind of obnoxious.

[01:56:28] I think he inserted himself into that narrative. I agree. Here's the narrative I like. Yeah. Catherine Bigelow just fucking owning her ex-wife. That's the narrative I play in my mind. But he has to spin it like this in order to keep his credibility.

[01:56:40] Right, so I don't listen to what he is saying. And I listen to her silence. James Cameron's a great person to not listen to. But then here's the silence on just being like... And I think it casts this sort of shadow is well, much like Sofia Coppola did

[01:56:53] Catherine Bigelow get this movie made because of her connection to men in the industry. Maybe, but that's not true for everybody. But I also think... I mean he apparently helped her a lot in this film was one of the people who she was between a couple projects

[01:57:05] and he said you got to make this. This is like... This could be the defining war film. They remain close. I think James Cameron is friends with all the sexes because all the sexes are like, you know what? It's great not being married to you.

[01:57:15] But I do like you and we... You're a fun person to talk to. And they were all... It was just being married to you that was really stressful. Because it just... It was like, you know, they're like, because they've already collaborated on a movie post-divorce. Right.

[01:57:27] Because Strange Shades, he wrote it and she directed it. Okay, okay. So I think they have a genuine relationship but it is funny. I think the answer is objectively, no, it would not have gotten made. But I also think she's in a specific position

[01:57:39] because it's not just like, well, she needed men to help her. It's like, she's lucky that her ex-husband who she's still on good terms with vouchers for her artistically. Right, but also, you know, this isn't any movie. She got the money together.

[01:57:50] You know, I mean this is a Catherine Bigelow product. Sure. Yeah, I mean like this, it isn't even like a Megan Ellison right to the check. No, I just think Cameron always helped her in terms of he was taken so seriously

[01:58:02] during the periods of time where she was discounted and he would always kind of say to people like you don't understand how good a filmmaker she is. Right. Like even if you can discount her as an action filmmaker say this or that,

[01:58:14] I know the bones of what makes me a person. I say we stop talking about James Cameron right now. I agree. That's important to talk about within the narrative of the Oscars and all the bubble up box office games. I want to play the box office game.

[01:58:21] Yes, I want to play the box office. Jinx, you want me to? Yeah, great. Okay. This movie came out on 4 theaters, June 26, 2009. We're going to do this week because it never really expanded. I agree. It just slowly. This is the right week today. Okay.

[01:58:34] 2009, June 26, but it opens number 27 with $145,000 on 4 screen. I mean this is pretty good. Yeah. Two days after my birthday. Congratulations. Birthday... Benjamin. Benjamin. Number one at the movie. Okay. Number one at the movie is a new film. So this is a game we play, Sonia. Connoisseur of contest.

[01:58:55] Number one at the box office is a new film that is also number one in the highly ill-advised box office mojo category of travelogue Middle East, which the Hurt Locker also belongs to. Oh my God. Let me tell you when you think about this movie,

[01:59:12] which opens to $108 million. Oh my God. Is it something like Bullwraps? No. I believe I know what it is. Is it Transformers Revenge of the Fallout? Correct. The second Transformers movie. That's a really bad way to characterize that movie.

[01:59:25] So wait, so Sex and the City 2 doesn't come out until the following year, right? That's 2010 or 2011? Because that would also, I imagine, be in that box office mojo category. Sex and the City 2. Travelogue Middle East. Is number 15 in the travelogue Middle East,

[01:59:41] which again to tell you how ill-advised travelogue... Yeah, the fuck that. Transformers, Passion of the Christ is number two. I don't think that's a travelogue. Passion of the Christ? American Sniper Iron Man, which, I mean, yeah, okay, has seen set in the Middle East.

[01:59:57] Raiders of the Lost Ark, Aladdin, Mission Impossible. It's a nightmare. This list is a nightmare. Lawrence of Arabia in there? That's the only one that seems like a travelogue. No, but Sex and the City... It may not be in this box office.

[02:00:09] Sex and the City 2 is like a bunch of white women being like, wouldn't it be fun to go to the Middle East? That is a genuine travelogue. It's a travel to the UAE for no particular reason. Movies about people like being embedded in war there...

[02:00:20] That does also have a scene where... Jesus walking through the stations of the cross. Sure, yeah. That does have a... Sex and the City 2 just have a scene where Samantha says Lawrence of Milabia, referring to a hot man. She did and she was.

[02:00:34] I'm so glad we introduced that into this really important discussion of this white war film. Lawrence of Milabia. Anyway, number two at the box office that weekend, is a rom-com that was a huge surprise breakout hit of this summer. The proposal. The proposal. Who remembers that movie?

[02:00:51] Sandra Bullock, Ryan Reynolds. I'll say this. So, any white... Canada. Sure. A scene where they are nude. A scene where she is naked, yeah. No, they both look like cowl. They bump into each other. Yeah, they bump into each other. They're nude and they bump into each other.

[02:01:07] They both look really good in that movie. Yeah, then they switch places. I hate this movie. It's a bad movie. I've never seen this movie. It's really bad. I will say... It's also at the height of Betty White Fever. This is what we ignited.

[02:01:22] I know, and it's like so many horny Betty White jokes. Romley Newman, past and future guest. Close personal friend of mine. Sister, we go way back. Sister. That's my improvised line I snuck into the tick, which I'm really proud of. I use it every time.

[02:01:40] Rom comes up on the show. She loves rom-coms. Romley comedies. And we asked her at dinner like two years ago, we're going through all the bad rom-coms that Rom likes. What's your favorite? And she said no question in the proposal.

[02:01:57] She cites that as the best romantic comedy of her lifetime. That's insane. When she comes back on the show, whatever that happens, we will fucking put her on trial. I love rom-coms and your sister is wrong. I love rom-ly and rom-coms, but I do not love the proposal.

[02:02:10] I've never seen it. I tried watching 15 minutes of it on plane. I could not get through. She swears by it. I don't know if she's ever rewatched it. Has she seen my best friend's wedding? Yeah, loves it. Very confusing.

[02:02:19] She has respect for the ones that deserve to be on the Mount Rushmore. Has seen every notable rom-com from 1980 on, I would say. Swears by that movie. Also loves Bullock. That's a big part of it. I think she likes seeing Bullock in the element.

[02:02:36] I just don't like the proposal. She's good in it, I guess. She's doing her Bullock thing. It's a good Sandra Bullock rom-com while you were sleeping. That's a good one. I've seen that one. That's a fun one. I see it. The best Sandra Bullock rom-com is speed.

[02:02:50] Anyway, number three. You were going to make the same joke. Yeah, we're on the same point. That was a comedy point share between the three of us. I just sort of always stopped into my tracks there. Comedy points family style, we all go in on them.

[02:03:03] Yeah, it's like Maz Sticks. Number three at the box office is like if the proposal was a comedy sensation, this was the comedy sensation of 2000. The hangover. Never forget. Number four. My mother's favorite movie. My mom fucking loves that movie too.

[02:03:22] I don't know why my mom's like that movie. My mom has not seen that movie. My mom fucking swears by that movie. Five minutes of the movie came on TV and my mom was laughing so hard she had her face covered. Like it was unreal. That's amazing.

[02:03:35] My mom said that was the hardest she ever laughed until Girls Trip this year. My mom is ballistic for Girls Trip. Ballistic. Ben, please pitch the prequel to Sonya. Okay, so Sonya, it's the hangover but it's a prequel. It's called The Buzz. Okay. They're all in high school.

[02:03:51] It's the same four guys and one of them gets locks in the gender closet and it's the day of prom and they got to find him. Now wait, I want to make something very clear. Okay, we have a segment on the show sometimes called Benny on the Record

[02:04:04] and Ben tries to predict something. Sonya, you're a journalist for Variety, a major, major pillar of reporting within this industry. Oh boy. This is Benny off the record, okay? He's pitching this around town. There's a lot of buzz. It's a hot package. It's a hot, yeah.

[02:04:20] Sources are saying. Right. Okay, so you cannot break this story. We're only going to record it and release it on a podcast but you cannot report on this pitch. Scouts on our Benny off the record. And also anyone listening out there, don't take this idea.

[02:04:33] All right, Ben, don't tweet about it. Look at the running time. It's time to be done. David's so agitated. It's good. Number four at the box office. I'm trying to think of what the animal would be that shows up. Oh sure. It's going to be a toucan.

[02:04:48] I don't know. Number four at the box office, a movie they all thought was going to be not as successful as the movies. This studio usually releases. But boy were they wrong just because it stars an old man. Oh, up. Up.

[02:05:02] Yeah, that was their argument always was like no one made toys for up because they were like, what are the kids going to like? And it's like first of all, every kid loves their grandpa. Yep. Second of all, the main fucking supporting cast of the movie

[02:05:15] is talking dogs. It's like dogs and weird animals. No one made toys for that movie and the movie is fucking dogs flying airplanes. But also balloons. Yeah. Kids love balloons. And a little boy. Yeah. Yeah. The boy is also very good. There was no merchandise for that movie.

[02:05:30] It's so bizarre when we do our fucking up episode, there's going to be a negative merchandise spot. Have we been in this room for three hours? Yes, we have. We've been in this room for 100 million years. We're never doing our up episode.

[02:05:42] But if we ever do do it, it would be called fucking up. Because that's funny. Okay. Peeville, that was funny. Let's talk about it. We're going back. Number five at the box office. Our up episode is going to be in our Pete Docter A series

[02:05:53] which is going to be called podsters cast. I hate you. I hate everyone in the world. Podsters cast. So cute. Podsters cast. Number five at the box office is a, it's the first time in a while that I've been done with an episode.

[02:06:08] I've never been more into an episode. I could record another hour easy. Good. Great. Number five is a Nick Kassavetti's joint. My other sister. Say it again. It's not that one. My sister's sister. My sister's keeper. There we go. A weepy with Cameron Diaz.

[02:06:25] I get all those sister movies. Abigail Breslin. This fucking movie. Isn't it based on the Jodie Pickle book or something? I believe it is. I think I like Baldwin's. I believe she plays the doctor. It's like cancer and organ donation. Correct. It's not, it's not. And there's another.

[02:06:39] Yeah. I saw it eight times. There's another sister too that I think Dakota Fanning was supposed to play and then she quit because she wouldn't shave her head. There's like a story behind that movie where it was like,

[02:06:49] Dakota Fanning is not committed enough as an actress to shave her head and then whoever they got shaved her head and it didn't help her career. No, it opened to $12 million. Other we movies you got year one. Pig hit. Yeah.

[02:07:01] Boy caveman comedy with Michael Sarah and Jack Black. Harold Ramis's final film. Harold Ramis's last film unfortunately taking a film one, two, three remake, which is sort of a soft little hit. Yeah. That summer. People thought it was going to be bigger. Yeah. Sure. Star Trek.

[02:07:17] Which is great. Oh, wow. Night of the museum battle of the Smithsonian, which obviously went on to win Best Picture that year. Best Smithsonian picture. Right. The first movie by a monkey to win Best Picture. Way we go. Land of the Lost.

[02:07:33] There were some real stinkers, angels and demons, Terminator Salvation. This is like a lot of stinkers. I'll say this. This was right around the time when they announced the 10 best picture thing because this was the first year of that year post-Dark. Night where they're like, uh-oh.

[02:07:47] And I remember everyone saying like looking at the box office at that weekend and going like, so what gets in now? Does Up get in? Is Pixar going to get in now? Is Star Trek going to get in?

[02:07:55] Like they were like, they've done this to add in more blockbusters. Star Trek came close for sure. I think District 9 had gotten in Star Trek would have gotten in. And then Avatar 2 having two big sci-fi movies that year, Falked Over Star Trek.

[02:08:09] Otherwise I think it would have gotten the nod. Quite possibly. Hurt Locker, it grosses 17 total. Yeah. That's it. Not great. It's out of theaters by like October, you know? But it did linger around for a while and I did go to see it.

[02:08:23] This is what I'm still obviously a huge movie fan but I'm not writing about movies and I am sort of like more just like, I just go see things. And yeah, someone was just like, it's so fucking good. Like it's like the best action movie I've seen in

[02:08:34] years. And I was like, oh okay. So I didn't know how to sell it. It's interesting because I would never call it an action movie. I call that. No, but it is. It's an action movie. Yeah, it's all set pieces. No, no.

[02:08:44] It's just I would never think to. No, right. Because you think of an action movie as being less static. It's a very static movie. Fun movie. And it's right. This is not a fun movie but it's like it's a really effective visceral action movie.

[02:08:55] And then it wins six Academy Awards. Can you name the six? It wins Best Picture. It wins Best Director. It wins Best Screenplay. It wins Best Editing. It wins both the sound awards. Yes. It doesn't win cinematography, music. Cinematography loses to avatar which is kind of weird.

[02:09:11] Yeah, well neither of them should have won but yeah. I think watching this movie a second time I was very taken back by the cinematographer. I've never been the biggest bariatric fan but he does. This is like his best. I agree.

[02:09:22] I think this is the best example of this type of shooting. What do you think should have won? I just wanted to double check the cinematography nominees but yeah. The other any of the other three nominees would be my picks. Deacon in there? Deacon is not in there.

[02:09:34] You've got Robert Richardson for Inglourious Bastards. You've got Bruno Delbonnel for the aforementioned Harry Potter and the Half Bloods Prince which is one of the most gorgeous movies ever made. That is very true of recent times. That's an aesthetic feast. Not ever made.

[02:09:47] One of the most gorgeous movies that were around them. And that's when Yates figured out his aesthetic for that franchise because the one before that whatever it is is kind of in whatever looking. I was not. That is a mess. Yeah. Some people like that one.

[02:10:00] And then Christian Burger who shot The White Ribbon which is like great cinematography nomination. That would have been my win. Beautiful. That's actually one of the best looking movies I've ever seen. So wonderful. Yeah. So anyway, there you go. Interesting. Renner would have been my best actor that

[02:10:13] year. Yes. I mean Bridges won because he was like a C. Yeah. But say this, okay? If Bridges had lost this year because they felt like this is our year on our Bridges, if Bridges had lost and they had given it to either Renner who

[02:10:26] I think should have won or Firth who I think is excellent in single man. Who wins the next year. Right. Right. Okay. So what happens if they'd given Firth this year for single man and then waited next year and gave Bridges best actor for true grip?

[02:10:39] I think those are better performances from each guy. Here's what I think happens. What's Bridges nominated for this? Crazy heart. Oh. He's not even bad in it. It's just sort of like, yeah. But he tops it next year. Like next year he's in a better movie

[02:10:52] giving a better version of that performance. Here's what I think happens if Firth wins in 09. I think he still wins in 10. I think they go to Bridges. Remember how much like fucking like Bridges drum banging like we've never used the best of Bridges. People love the Kingspeed.

[02:11:06] But Jeff Bridges performance in true grit is truly weird. Which I love about it. I agree, but Jeff Bridges performance in crazy hearts a real Oscar picture where he's like, I'm so drunk. Yeah. I'm a fuck up. I'm going to sing a song called Farrell.

[02:11:20] But in true grid he wears long underwear. I know he's great. He loves to pull the cork. He's still good in it. We are not. What was Jeff Bridges nominated for before? Thunderbolt and Lightfoot. Last picture show. Starman. The last picture show and the contender.

[02:11:35] I don't think he was nominated for the fabulous Baker boys, which is one of his best performance. He wasn't on it for Seerless, right? No, Rosie Perez was. What were you going to ask? I'm afraid I'm going to say something wrong. No, it's not. Say it.

[02:11:47] No, I'm going to look at my phone instead. What? What? We got them all. This is safe space. But what? Was the one you were thinking? Are you worried that Jeff Bridges wasn't in the movie? You're going to say, what is it?

[02:11:59] No, I'm not saying it out loud. Give me a second. Surf's up. I was going to ask about the Big Lebowski and then I got really stressed out. Do I not know who's the Big Lebowski? That movie was sort of a flap when it came out

[02:12:11] and the Oscars ignored it. You're going to get flamed for this episode. God damn it. Anyway, so... They're going to call you Boston Market because you're about to get flamed. I'm really hungry speaking of food. Cool. Food school. This episode is like four hours long. Great.

[02:12:27] I had so much fun. I had a great time. I did. I genuinely did. It's funny. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you guys so much for having me. It was really fun and this is a really fun movie to talk about.

[02:12:36] People should read Variety. That's the best source to find out who's ankle in project. Oh my God. Which skeins are hitting the skeins? Skeins! You don't have to say skeins. Pathobios. I do not have to say skein anymore. I think that that like, that ethos has faded.

[02:12:51] Do you ever say ankle though? No, I don't really know what it means. I think it's a great phrase. David is furious and wants to ankle this recording studio immediately. Does that mean take it out at the ankle? Get out of leave. Oh ankle.

[02:13:04] They would always say that when someone like quits a movie they go like, It's weird. Yeah. Brad Pitt has ankle the fountain. That's Rushfield's new thing. It's called the Ankler. I wonder if that's like, I think it probably is. It's like a reference.

[02:13:15] People should follow you on Twitter. Yeah I like having okay Twitter sometimes. I think it's a good Twitter. And you also, I'll say this in my six weeks of doing my press tour which I did not love. You were like the bright spot.

[02:13:28] The end of this New York day, this press day when I had to do all these like five minute capsule interviews that were just like melting my brain. I got to end the day with you and the PR person came in after like 15 minutes

[02:13:39] and was like, I think Griffin has to go. And I was like, And you were like, no I want to talk more. And she was like, oh I thought you'd probably just want to go to sleep.

[02:13:46] And I'm like, I do but I want to actually get complicated thoughts out. And we had this like fucking great conversation. It was great. But I think you wrote up really well and I even like, the way you contextualize is like two friends talking about like,

[02:13:57] I can't believe we're in these positions right now. We're talking in this situation. It was the best. I'm weirdly like almost as proud of that interview as I am of my work on the show. Oh my God, that's so interesting to see. Great job on the interview.

[02:14:09] No, I truly don't. Because I felt like that was like the conversation where I got to encapsulate everything I was believing in. And you definitely like got to say things in your own voice because I feel like that's part of it too

[02:14:18] is like of course when you're thinking about being an actor you're thinking about how like every other person who's been a superhero film of some kind has like somehow framed their performance. Like it was just great to hear all that from you. I'll say this too.

[02:14:31] Almost every other review I did, people misquoted me in one way or another. I think because I like mumble and I talk fast and stuff and they just like kept on using words that didn't make sense and like completely decimated the logic of whatever sentence I was saying.

[02:14:44] Oh no. And you're the one person I think because you know me well enough to be like. Maybe I just understood your sentences. Cause I read these other things where people were like they clearly just thought I was talking gibberish. But thank you for that.

[02:14:55] Oh my God, thank you for doing it. It was a real pleasure. Thank you for being on the show. We'll have you on again sooner. Oh my God, no, it was great to be here and if you guys do end up talking about

[02:15:04] I don't know the Harry Potter films. We'll have you back. We'll have you back. We'll have you back. We'll have you back. We'll have you back. We'll have you back. We'll have you back. We'll have you back. We'll talk one day. Alright well bye blankies.

[02:15:16] Thanks for having me. Remember to rate, review, subscribe, go to blankies.righted.com for some real nerdy shit. Nerdy shit. Thank you to Ange for good over our social media, Joe Bowen and Pat Rounds for artwork, Lean, Mont, Gumry, War, Hour, Eamesong, and as always, as always.