[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Say You're Too Expressed All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check They were all drawn to the podcast. The soldiers who brought death, the father and daughter fighting for life,
[00:00:28] the people who have always feared it and the one man who knows its secret. Tonight, they will all face the podcast. You're just doing the poster. Look how much fucking tagline there is on this poster. It's a hefty tagline with a tiny little tagline at the bottom.
[00:00:45] Right, so that's why I did the double podcast because I felt like I have to read all three of these. There's like all caps tagline at the top, then a fucking paragraph text block, then a little tagline at the bottom. So I was like, let's work two podcasts.
[00:00:59] They're doing anything they can to get people to care about this movie by the time that poster is being designed. I mean what also in obtuse bunch of words on that poster? Yeah, let me look at this again.
[00:01:10] They were all drawn to The Keep. The soldiers who fought death, the father and daughter fighting for life, the people who have always feared it and the one man who knew its secret. Tonight, they will all face the evil. I mean, you know.
[00:01:20] That kind of makes it sound like a fairly normal monster movie, right? I mean, it is accurate like largely. You know, basically telling you what's the plot. The IMDB quotes page is weirdly stacked. I know, but I'm not going to read any of those. I mean, what?
[00:01:35] I mean, they're not, right, they're not like good quotes, but they're there. Right, but considering like what was the movie we covered the holiday where it had like zero quotes on the page or something? The holiday?
[00:01:46] One of the Nancy Meyers movies. It wasn't the holiday, but one of the Nancy Meyers movies we were befuddled that it truly did not have a quotes page. Oh, it was Home Again. Home Again, sure. Right. One of the Halle Shire Meyers movies.
[00:01:59] But the fucking The Keep IMDB quotes page is just essentially a fucking full transcript of the script. Sure. Full dialogue. And what truth do you see? What are you discovering about yourself, Kenford?
[00:02:13] Huh? I murder all these people there for I must be powerful and you smash them down only because that raises you. I mean, this goes on for sentences. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. A lot. Michael Mann just sat down and wrote all that.
[00:02:25] Yeah, well he wrote three times that. Yeah, sure. That's the crazy thing. Did you, I was like digging into this. It's like man, it's so weird. This feels like such a first movie. Yeah.
[00:02:36] This kind of like horror movie that doesn't really like come together that doesn't have any clarity of vision or purpose in the way that Thief did. Right.
[00:02:45] He was like, I'm gonna make like a 95 minute movie because that's so unlike him. And then he found out he delivered a 210 minute movie and they were like cool through half of it out released in theaters and he disowned it.
[00:02:56] I never ever believe things like that when I read them. Right, right. There is no such thing as a 210 minute cut of a movie that like Hollywood would ever release. Like unless there's like an inner. You think that was like his assembly. Right.
[00:03:09] You don't think he was presenting that as a formal cut? I think you see statistics like that. I made one movie before. I remember I made Thief. Anyway, you got to release this thing. It's four hours long. You see statistics like that entirely too often. Sure.
[00:03:20] And it's always some staggering number. And unless there's a very clear source on that. Right. Where it's like, yes, the script was 300 pages long. Yeah. They greenlit that and then the cut was the right length of time and they butchered it. Yeah.
[00:03:34] Like once upon a time in America. But when you hear something like that for this and like you look on Wikipedia and every citation of it just goes to like the same thing. Uh-huh.
[00:03:44] Like how can there be a 210 minute like well edited, well paced cut of this movie? Look, I don't think it's well edited or well paced. This movie does feel like half of it's missing. The movie certainly could have been longer than 96 minutes. Right. No question. Right.
[00:04:00] There's a happy compromise somewhere in there. I think I read something that said that his goal was two hours. That makes sense.
[00:04:05] I just think this movie feels like the pre-restoration metropolis where the only way you could watch it was with like inner titles that would come up and be like, so we lost these 20 minutes and here's vaguely what happened for four scenes in a row. It does feel...
[00:04:18] Metropolis would just explain to you the movie you weren't watching. Wait, that happened? I've never heard this before. Pritz Lang's Metropolis. Yeah, I've seen the movie. Right. For a long time was just like only existed in short forms.
[00:04:28] And then Keen O'Lorber in like the late 90s early 2000s was like, we're going to try to remaster, like restore it as best possible. Sure. And they had a bunch of inner titles that were like,
[00:04:39] so here's a whole sequence that we lost and they just like explain what happens to try to give you the full sense of the narrative. And everyone thought that was the best it was going to be. And then like 10 years ago someone fucking found it. Right.
[00:04:50] Someone found it in like their dad's attic and they were like, he has a 16 millimeter print of the full metropolis and it exists now. The other one of those is the DVD of Lost Horizon. Yes.
[00:05:01] Which has like photographs taken on set with on screen text explaining what's in the script at that time because scenes were lost. There's a movie that was... No one liked that? It was the sequel. Lost Horizon is a 210 minute movie.
[00:05:17] Like that is actually one of like the original concept. Yeah, that I believe. Right, right. But that's also at a time where you would buy that. Of course, right. There was a universal try to make a sequel to All Quiet in the Western Front. Sure.
[00:05:31] It was I think supposed to be called the unknown. Okay, sure. I believe it's called the unknown and it was from the German perspective. Oh, so like a letter to me with Gema deal. Right. And then World War II happened and Universal is like...
[00:05:46] So they like shit can the movie and maybe they like re-edited it and retitled it and put it in some weird form and some butchered form and released it here. But it was one of these things that like people were trying to find forever
[00:06:00] because there were like there was some finished movie that never got released. And Scorsese was like trying really hard to find it for the Film Foundation and they ended up finding it when like some guy in like Prague or whatever
[00:06:13] like you know a projectionist who owned a local movie theater his daughter was going through his like warehouse after he died and they found a canister that said unknown on it and she assumed it was like this is just some unknown unidentified footage
[00:06:28] and then she took it out and it was like oh that's why no one ever found this because it's called unknown. People just threw it out because they assumed it was like odds and ends. So I make fun of nerds but hey you know...
[00:06:41] Kind of a cool story. Kind of a cool story. Kind of a cool story. Collectors, they buy this stuff, they hide it away and then you continue to have it be in culture. Well I suppose in like the first 70 years of film
[00:06:55] people didn't like put any effort into preserving things. So it was all like nerds you know it was like theater owners and like collectors and these people who just like bought shit in bulk and anytime they've like discovered something they thought was lost it's because of that.
[00:07:10] It's not because the studio found it in their closet. Like those studios couldn't burn those things fast enough. How much time during your Michael Mann series would we be talking about like alternate versions? Like fucking... I mean well here's the answer.
[00:07:23] In the main release versions of our episodes? Not at all. In our remastered definitive cuts of our episodes that we will... Two weeks after each Michael Mann episode we are going to re-release the episode with a changed order and expanded scene. That would...
[00:07:42] That's my joke it's up to is I don't know if I... That would be... That would be... It is a joke. Excuse me. It's a joke. It's a joke. Of course you're not doing it. But I'm going to say this right now.
[00:07:53] I'm going to say this right now because we talked about this. What about on the Black Hat episodes? Can we all wear Black Hat? Yeah, we can all wear Black Hat. Okay thank you. I want to say this right now. And fingerless gloves. Okay. Because we're hackers.
[00:08:04] We're going to hack. Ben thinks Black Hat is hackers. Right he thinks it's just like... The Angel and the Jelly Movie and Ben looks like I just told him that his dog died. Santa doesn't exist. Yeah. He's a despondent. Alright what were you going to say?
[00:08:19] I said this to you guys in private but I want to put this on the record. If we ever do Peter Jackson, we are releasing mainline main feed... Oh you want to do extended editions? For the Patreon. I mean okay. Regular length.
[00:08:33] Is it the same episode just with stuff added throughout? It would have to be. That would be the format right? It's like the same episode just but then we go on a few extra tangents. We'll have tangents. It will be much like the Lord of the Rings
[00:08:43] extended editions. None of it's essential. But then... No. It's just added world building flavor in the tangents. But then the actual episodes are much like the theatrical cut, something no one really needs anymore. Well I mean that's... Maybe this is the best business strategy for our Patreon.
[00:08:58] Anyone's ever come up with. They're all crying out loud. You feel like a fool with listening to theatrical versions. There will be no actual Michael Mann remixes. Ben come on. I mean Ben come on. There's one for almost every movie isn't there?
[00:09:12] Yeah and a lot of times for him it's not just making things longer. It's also like changing the order. So you could just like pick a couple of our little tangents and switch around when they happen. Ben you can't be upset about this one.
[00:09:24] Jax is not even like on the horizon this year. No we're talking about Mann though now. Oh Jesus. Doing the Mann definitive editions. I will compromise. I will do it for one episode. For one. Okay we can pick one and for one on the Patreon we'll release
[00:09:37] a definitive edition. I'll mix up and yeah. Well I mean really you just have to move like something at the end to the beginning. Right. Like and then add in one extra time to make the opening song way worse. Exactly. You have to cut in some backing track.
[00:09:51] A little bit. Yeah. A cover of a Phil Collins song by a new metal band something like that. We'll do it for which is the one he's fucked with the most Miami Vice. He fucks with it so all the time. You think he's fucked with that more than
[00:10:01] what he released like three different cuts of Miami Vice and like none of the first one who was the good one right. I'm not aware of there being subsequent ones. I would have guessed I remember. Many cuts. See I'm less aware of Mann.
[00:10:13] Manhunter is messed because Miami Vice he released the director's cut and it was ruinous especially before the internet because you couldn't get the regular cut for a while. It was hard. A lot of people liked that cut more. No the director's cut sucks.
[00:10:25] Anyone who likes it is a thief and a liar. Alex what do you think of the director's cut? I never saw it because everyone because everyone who loved Miami Vice upon release was very excited about it and then immediately the word was don't watch it.
[00:10:37] You turn it on and you're like oh shit why did you do this like you know what I was like I love that movie and then he doesn't change much but he changes the song okay and he puts in a worse like way worse.
[00:10:47] Well like I mean you guys will obviously we'll get into this one but you know like one of the best things about that movie and kind of that movie is like an end to how to talk about Michael Mann I think in the present is like this long
[00:10:59] silent shoot out at the end. Yes yes which has a song in it in the director's cut. He puts like a cover of In the Air Tonight over that right right by like Power Man 5000. I remember hearing about that. By like a guy who got fired
[00:11:13] from audio slaver. That was like Michael Mann's vibe in the 2000s. Wasn't the trailer for Miami Vice scored to the Jay-Z like in Parks. So the movie began with the one car. That is the greatest opening of a movie I think of my lifetime. Correct.
[00:11:31] I showed that in the one time I taught at NYU with Griffin's father. I showed that opening scene and I was like this is the greatest beginning of a movie and in the last 20 years these two minutes are.
[00:11:40] I have only seen it the one time when it came out in. How have you not seen it 100 times? I don't know. Perfect. Look we'll never talk about it on the show. Winky winky. My new bit now is I say we're never
[00:11:52] going to talk about movies that we've already announced or going to talk about. That's a great bit. Right I'm just going to call out the bit right now and dissect the frog. I'm done hinting about things that people have surmised we're going to do.
[00:12:04] I'm now hinting about things that they know we're going to do. So he messed with manhunter and we confirmed. I feel like manhunter has two or three cuts. I feel like when he would just add little he would beef it out slightly right
[00:12:14] like every new version of him. What is changed? The newest version of it he's like changed some shit. He's like used some alternate takes to change some order. There's the definitive edition that just came out like a year or two ago.
[00:12:24] But crucially and I think this is like relevant like the keep is untouched according to what I looked up. He just threw up his hands. There's just no way to do it but I don't know. It's weird that it feels like the one he would most want
[00:12:36] to come out with his own version. I think he would actually need millions of dollars I think you'd need to like do whole yeah visual effects sequences. According to what I was reading he seems to have said like it's just not possible.
[00:12:46] There's not material but talking about him and you're obviously I'm excited to be here at the beginning. You're here at the beginning. Of course. What I view as a very important mini series. This is a blank check. Probably got some health from my graphing director
[00:12:58] so massive success along the career give us here's a blank check to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they keep. Maybe sometimes they get out. I don't know. Protsky sometimes they drink a dog's blood
[00:13:13] for no reason in the middle of the movie. Protsky I was like where's Protsky going to show up in this movie he's in the opening credits and I didn't realize he was the guy with the big bookie black beard. Yeah almost unrecognizable. He's got a big beard.
[00:13:26] He's got a big beard and he's also such a white haired man. That's true. I'm used to seeing with that much color in his face. That's true. Some of the film is on the films of Michael Mann. We talked about Protsky for like 45 million minutes.
[00:13:38] Mostly a Protsky cast. I mean there's such a company of actors in his movies. Yes, yes. Especially like the first decade. Mesaers is called Cas and the J.I. Fox. Subtitle Michael Mann's Splaining. And our guest today is Alec Frostpair. That's right. And director of her smell.
[00:13:55] That's right. Still in theaters? Fingers crossed. When is this coming out? May 19. It's a month out. It's a month later. It might be digitally nearing by then. Your window, you got a 30 day window on the middle of it? Digitally crowning.
[00:14:10] Sort of new in between of neither day and date nor 90 days. So that's allowed? You can do a... I don't know anything. No one cares anymore about how movies are released. Well doesn't AMC and Regal care isn't a whole fucking problem? We won't be there in those.
[00:14:23] Right, you're not doing this. But like right, you know it's always been this thing of like well the indie distributors can do whatever they want if they're avoiding the multiplexes because they're not fighting with like AMC and Regal to preserve a window.
[00:14:34] I had a pop-up ad yesterday for Isn't it Romantic? Sure. The Rebel Wilson joint. The Rebel Wilson joint, Romcom. Available on digital. And that movie came out Valentine's Day. True. And at the time we were recording this episode it is March 28th, 27th?
[00:14:53] Sure, it's the end of March. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. That's March 30th. And I was like that's six weeks. So that's 45 days. That's a 45 day with my friends. That's 45 days and they're like it's coming out on Blu-ray mid-April. Maybe New Line has some, I don't fucking know.
[00:15:08] I don't know, it just feels like no one's protesting that. You know what was the only thing about this? That's my point. They always have these big like fights in advance of the subject being brought up. Did you read the...
[00:15:18] And then New Line just does it and no one gives a shit. No one cares at all. Did you read the thing that Sutterberg kept saying recently where he said that there has to be a system in place that you, by the end of a disastrous opening
[00:15:27] a weekend, just press a button and have the movie be... Yeah. He said it to me. My interview, he said it to a few people. I heard him say it on a podcast. No, he said it on someone's podcast. Retired bit. Retired bit.
[00:15:40] But that's the smartest thing anyone said about releasing movies. I'm saying retired bit when I want to say the retired bit. It was that thing where like, he was basically like, I know on Friday if it worked or not. And that's...
[00:15:51] And if it didn't work, I should be able to just put it on Netflix the next week. Wait 90 days to sell people a movie that bombed. Right. Because it's like, he's basically almost saying like, it's almost rude to theaters to say
[00:16:00] you have to still play on the scene. You know what I mean? It's sort of like, I get it. They didn't like it, forget it. But the other thing is, like sometimes something does surprisingly well in theaters. You don't want to like completely bypass
[00:16:11] the process because there are certainly movies that people don't expect to last more than a week that end up having like robust sort of indie runs. Like in a body, black cat. No, you know what's when I remember Arbitrage? A movie that I... Arbitrage.
[00:16:30] Arbitrage is one of those only movies that was a day and date release and then made money. And then it made 10 million like or whatever. It made like seven or eight. There was like a six month window. Yeah. Well because like eight years ago
[00:16:40] where a day and date movie like that or margin calls. Margin call was the other one. Margin call. I believe, but I mean no one's just proven those are not the same movie. Margin call's a lot better. Those are both day and date movies
[00:16:49] that like made millions of dollars. Yeah. Arbitrage made 35 worldwide. Right. Not bad. Ten domestic? How much? Seven. Eight. Okay. But that's like margin call. Seven point nine higher than any other... No, of course. I assume that would make the 300,000. I think it's often better if your gear is
[00:17:06] in your movie and it's about like the Upper East Side. That means the median age of your audience is like 78 years old, right? Yeah. They don't know what a video on demand is. So they're going to go to see it at Lincoln Plaza.
[00:17:17] That movie also has like a lot of like famous New York people who aren't actors playing other characters. Like Ed Koch or something. I put Graydon Carter's in that movie. Graydon Carter's in it. And there's like one or two other people like that where like everyone's going to
[00:17:28] end up on like a Wikipedia page of like a real financial criminal. And it's like, of course you played a key supporting role in the Richard Geer film Arbitrage. Well also if your movie is named after like a securities process, you know, like some kind of high-end
[00:17:41] financial thing, that's a tip, right? That's a little tip of the head. You're really giving people what they want in the series on the films of Nicholas Jurekki. You're right, that Graydon Carter is like ninth bill. Yeah, that's like Dickie Geer, Susan Sarandon, Graydon Carter.
[00:17:55] Nicholas Jurekki is a good poll. He's making a movie right now apparently called Dreamland. He's not the one who did the jinx. That's Andy Jurekki? Yeah, that's the... The movie phone guy. He's the movie phone guy? He's the voice of movie phone guy. Andrew Jurekki created movie phone.
[00:18:11] I did not know that. I thought that he, I think of him as what's it called? The Freedmen's. Yeah, kind of Freedmen's. Right, right. So the Jurekki family, like old finance money family. Henry Jurekki, right. Big rich man. And all the kids wanted to be filmmakers
[00:18:26] and the dad was like, you're never going to be an artist. You have to make money. So he was like, okay, I'll become a businessman. He created movie phone. He sold it for millions of dollars and he was like, great, now I'm going to go
[00:18:38] make my fucking movies, fuck you dad. Fair enough. He also co-wrote the theme song to Felicity? Yep. Jack of all trades. But he created movie phone, then directed capturing the Freedmen's. Remember the jinx? Ben looks, Anthony. Remember Bobby the Jinx? I forgot to set the clock.
[00:18:53] I forgot to set the clock. That's okay because I'm going to say I believe we're going to go long. I think we might go long. I'm setting it. I would like to have two episodes in the all time top 10 longest. Do not come into the studio with that.
[00:19:05] This is the problem. I'm sorry, I have to. And I have a couple things to talk about even I'd like to address before the key. Alex has a full notebook. You want to say the podcast? Here's the other thing I want to say to you Alex.
[00:19:14] You could do a Marchman. We had to do our final Marchman to recap. Oh, interesting. And you can stay on for that. We got to talk Final Four. If you think I came in to blind check with an out time, you're crazy.
[00:19:23] Anyone who does, I always am like, oh sweetie, oh shit. My day is cleared. Well, the last time I had an out time it was four and a half hours later and I still ended up barely making it because Griffin was two hours later. Right, right Griffin.
[00:19:35] That was one of my weaker moments as a podcast. My next commitment is in the evening. But I know I have a couple things to address. One is I love Michael Mann and I am very excited. Glad we're doing him right?
[00:19:47] I feel like the term should be the North American man blankie love association for anybody who wants to listen to this and declare themselves members of Nambla. Of Nambla. Of Nambla. The man blankie love association which you're all members of. I am.
[00:20:04] He's a very important filmmaker to me and I have a lot of thoughts on that. We're going to take back Nambla. What if we take it back? What if we totally take him back the cause? We've taken back the cause. I was saying that to Kevin Cosmer now.
[00:20:14] He was in some movie out by Southwest and I kept saying the cause and no one, it's weird. No one had picked up on your thing yet. It's starting to get traction. It's definitely going to work. And this will too. The man blankie love association
[00:20:27] I'd like to see an image of you both as children holding Michael Mann's hands. Sure. And the other thing I want to just address is a vaguely off topic but I had a good merchandise idea. It's been looking up what Nambla is. No, I'm laughing at you.
[00:20:41] I'm doing some clock business. I said one quick sort of tangential thing. I know we want to get back to the Jurekis and you found a really great merchandise spotlight but we'll save that for later. I did find a good merchandise spotlight
[00:20:51] but I want to create a potential merchandise spotlight. Why is there not merchandise yet? That's just the entirety of the movie speech. The movie. Why have we not? I would have a mug and I think many people would have a shirt that's just that whole speech.
[00:21:05] So it's just text, no image. Nothing, no image. All right, now I would like to interject I am beginning to take screen printing classes and I had a thought that we could start offering exclusive limited run t-shirts. If we do live with that.
[00:21:22] There's going to be like 100 of these. This is going to sell a hundred. I'll make 20. Wow. This I think is going to be the big seller. I feel like the movie should become iconic. It has become iconic. My wife has like a. It has. She has her minutes.
[00:21:36] It has. I mean the question is are we, it does anyone own the rights to that speech? You do. Are we going to make that shirt and then is Bruce Valanche going to sue us and be like, I wrote the movie speech.
[00:21:47] No, no, not if that did that be cool. I'm trying to find it. Anna has a tote that's like, you know, a sex in the city's like a carry monologue that I see women around sometimes. Just a tote or a mug. That's just that whole speech.
[00:21:58] I guess if we spell it phonetically if we do da M O V I sort of harder to. I just think that to me is a beautiful piece of merchandise. The other thing is that this speech comes out. We're going to be fucking selling it.
[00:22:12] If I went to Sean Connery and asked him about it, he would not know who he had done that. No one remembers that. Of course. Like, and if I look for like Sean Connery Oscars opening there like here he is winning an Oscar.
[00:22:23] That's what you want to deserve credit for that. You made it happen. I mean this says that has changed my life and the way it's changed the way I say the phrase the movies forever. So I just want to mention and hope there's a groundswell of support.
[00:22:37] This is a beautiful piece of text based merchant. I promise it will be on sale by the time this episode comes out. Do you remember which Oscars it is? It was the one with cold mountain because they keep 2003. Yeah. 2004. It got posted in the Reddit.
[00:22:51] That's the other thing now. I know it's just the red can be hard to see. Because you texted it to me and I have it. I send it to people once or twice a week. I've sent it to many people. I've shared it with Scottish people. Yeah. Sure.
[00:23:04] It's very important. I watch it like once every two or three weeks. Now I want to go back a point on your bullet list. Okay. I think the blankies have started doing something very dangerous which is keeping a constantly updated ranking of the longest episodes. Oh sure.
[00:23:20] Which then becomes a challenge for your Alex Ross Parrys, your JD Amados of the world to come on and try to break the record. I just couldn't believe at Toronto when you were like, the episode's coming out now. It's by the way our second longest episode. Right.
[00:23:34] Because they had alerted me to that. Taking Woodstock was two and a half hours long. And I was like, that's interesting. And I feel like maybe there's been some long ones since then but that blew my mind even though I was there for it. It's a good memory.
[00:23:47] I remember also Griffin trying to get Rachel to Yes. That's the thing. That's the first episode where she just heard. Oh right. Yeah, she's outside. R taking Woodstock. We were going to do an episode that was Rachel at her desk. 30 minutes of that episode or Griffin's Scorsese story.
[00:24:04] Yeah, you tell the Scorsese story. It pays out like a slot machine. It pays out like a slot machine but that's the thing. We're done with the movie and then somehow if you look at the podcast there's an hour to go
[00:24:12] and you're like what are they talking about? Well, that's going to happen again today. That's what I'm saying now. This movie is going to be done in 20 minutes. But there's so much to say about Michael Mann. Especially coming in early.
[00:24:23] I don't know how the Thief episode went probably well. I'm going to say this. The Thief episode, I feel like was a banger. Do you agree? I think it's loud. I think it's pretty great. This episode might end with like Mullahsar coming to
[00:24:34] just explode our heads or whatever. Okay, Ben wants to say this. I'm fine with you going for longer run of episodes. I'm fine with that but I already as the editor of the show have made a mental note for Michael Mann
[00:24:47] that I am going to start really, really cutting some stuff. You're going to start cutting some stuff. I'm going to cut, wait, wait a second. You're going to start cutting some stuff? No. I'm going to start really giving like some heavy cuts. No.
[00:25:00] You can only do that if you commit to also doing the later definitive edits where you put stuff back in. That's the only way I'll allow that. No cutting. Not after I had to put up with five months of Tim Burton
[00:25:11] without cuts where every episode's fucking two and a half hours. We went how long? Can't cut scissor hands, baby. Can't cut them. 150. We went Pee Blank on fucking Charlie and the chocolate factory. Yeah. I was wondering, will there be just an ordinary blank check
[00:25:28] that is over three hours long? It's got to happen. Just like not like a special episode. Like you're doing Miami Vice and it's just incidentally three hours and five minutes. It's one of those things. Is that the limit that will happen where it's like,
[00:25:41] will there ever be this? Well, you know how like every time. You have to have someone like you who has no objection. Who wants it to be three hours long. JD could push us. JD will push us there.
[00:25:50] You know how every time like someone breaks the human speed record, then suddenly five people break what was previously an unbreakable record? Right, right, right. It is the thing where I feel like the bar is constantly getting pushed.
[00:26:03] I mean we were talking to a friend of the show, Pastor Future guest, Sam Rogal, and noted that when his episode come out Terminator 2 was two hours and 12 minutes and we were embarrassed. Right. We eclipse the running time of the actual movie. How is that possible?
[00:26:18] How could an episode be this long? And now like we can't like order a cup of coffee without it going that long. I am excited about the keep. I'm excited about Michael Mann. Sure. But I feel like there's one of your favorites. I love Michael Mann. Yeah.
[00:26:31] He's very important, but part of this and yours time out Miami Vice and I feel like this will come up again and again. But like there was a time where it was inconceivable to present the notion that Michael Mann was a serious
[00:26:41] filmmaker even though he was coming off of like back to back prestigious Oscar movies. Back to back. You mean the insider and Holly. And I feel like I wrote down like up until that time, if you were to say like Michael Mann is one of my favorite
[00:26:56] and one of the best filmmakers, that would be like saying like Ridley Scott is one of like Ridley Scott without alien or Blade Runner. Yeah. Like that body of work. It's like black rain Ridley Scott. Yeah. It's like okay. Like him really like the guy who made Gladiator,
[00:27:14] the guy who made the insider. Like that's your favorite filmmaker. I remember when Ali was coming out and my father is a massive boxing fan, my brother is a massive boxing fan. My father wanted to be an on-camera sportscaster. We've talked about it.
[00:27:27] And the reason he gave up the dream was he got his shot which was he hosted a documentary about Muhammad Ali coming out of retirement. Okay. And he was so bad in it. Right. I'm just picturing him sitting there like
[00:27:40] because he stands on the floor where Jerry's like then again those shops tend to go to former ball players and people with broadcasting experience. I'm going to show you the picture of my father interviewing Muhammad Ali. Up until that point, like he was just like
[00:27:54] he was he was just a Hollywood director. Oh, this is the point I was going to make when Ali came out and I was like do you think it's going to be good? And he went like well Michael Mann is one of the best filmmakers alive.
[00:28:05] And my dad is not a serious cinephile and I was like how is it possible that this guy is one of the best filmmakers alive if I haven't heard anyone else say that? You know, like as a 12 year old, I was like
[00:28:15] I know the people who are constantly referred like Scorsese is shorthand, Coppola is shorthand, Spielberg is shorthand. You're telling me he's one of the best filmmakers alive? I've not heard anyone else throw down that kind of consensus. Wow, but Peter Newman was really ahead of that.
[00:28:30] He was like big into it. But like at that time it's like Moheakins and then like it's like big sweeping prestigious movies. And I really feel like as we just discussed it really turns around with Miami Vice which was like a very... That's funny, right?
[00:28:45] Oh wow, look at that. Your dad really does look like Albert Brooks in a way. He looks very Albert Brooksy. With Muhammad Ali. This is the photo but it's also... I'll post it on the fucking theater or whatever. This is also... He really does look like Brooks.
[00:28:57] This is his avatar on Instagram too. It's like his favorite picture. Muhammad Ali with a mustache when he came back out of retirement and sucked. Is this frame hanging up at your home? Oh, 100%. Are you kidding me? It's a sign outside on a rock. The thing is bad.
[00:29:11] Okay. It's bad. It seems like a combination of your dad's big moment but also one of the movies they make in Boogie Nights. Yes, it's very... Where it's just shots of Muhammad Ali sniffing flowers and staring off into the sea. It's very low rent and they definitely...
[00:29:25] It's like Barney's movie in The Simpsons. They thought it was a get and then they started following him around. They thought both. And then they started following around my father interviewing Muhammad Ali after like training to come out of retirement and they were like,
[00:29:42] oh, A, this guy can't conduct an interview. B, Muhammad Ali is going to lose these fights. The stories about your dad are starting to pile up into such like a character on a sitcom who you never see sort of way. I want to get him on though.
[00:29:57] Everything about him that stacks up is like, these stories can't all be true. You don't even know half of them. Well, you said that one the other day that was revolting. Which was in a minute. No, that's hilarious. Oh, my father who is a college professor.
[00:30:15] Oh, you guys, this is an off mic regulation. My father is a college professor, hates socks. He wears like loafers exclusively. This is crazy to me. I love socks. They're my favorite piece of clothing. I have so many pairs of socks it's crazy.
[00:30:30] I love the way he is dressed. He's wearing white shoes, and I mean it, but I'm not sure what he's wearing. So I'm going to add some of those to that. So this is more like a swear word for a friend. He's wearing white shoes.
[00:30:41] But I'll just say that this is a good one. This is a good one. But he's wearing white shoes as well. And I'm going to get him into my room. And we're going to talk about that, I mean, his ankle is almost always exposed even during the winter.
[00:30:56] Like even during snowstorms. that no one can notice. And every time I met one of my father's students they're like, oh my God, your dad's the barefoot professor. This is crazy to me. But anyway, this is- And it's Peter, like, discuss it.
[00:31:07] Cause you're gonna get him those shoes that have the toes built in. You don't think we've been trying to solve this problem, Ben? You don't think we've been working at this one? Hey, let me consult with Peter. As a family, please.
[00:31:19] And yet your dad seemed to be hip to man before anybody. It was hip to man! And he's not a big movie guy. My point is like, prior to Miami Vice, that was maybe your dad's opinion. And I think after that movie,
[00:31:30] it really exploded with people who were just like, I think you're right. Oh my God. And then it really doubled down with Nolan being like, you know, the Dark Knight. That's inspired by Heat, the greatest of movies. And people were like,
[00:31:41] Heat, the movie that's on cable all the time? That's the other thing. That's the greatest movie? That's a thing. But Heat had a bit of a Shawshank thing where it was watching it 20 times. But with dads, exclusively. But now, with that sort of middle-aged dad zone.
[00:31:55] And now, Heat is a movie that like, the last time it screened in New York, like it was at Bam, it was like, because it's long, it was like a one, a three and a nine. And I went at like two to get a ticket
[00:32:06] to the three o'clock and every screening for the day was sold out. And now, Heat is big. And it's all like 25-year-old kids. And people are like, oh, this is one of the greatest made films ever. And then suddenly, Man is like, oh, he's one of those.
[00:32:17] He's shorthand now. Well, like, Man is like... Dark Knight did do a lot for it. I think you're right about that. I mean, he's got Fickner in the opening scene. And then suddenly you just look at, you look back at his movies and you're like,
[00:32:26] oh right, these are all perfect. These are like a perfectly made body of work. None more so than the keep. The other thing with him though is, I think Mamie Weiss was so divisive that the people who were Man stands. Mamie Weiss, like it was sort...
[00:32:42] You had to take it side fast because it flopped so hard. And not only that, like... It was sort of like $70 million? I don't think I ever made that. It was very expensive. Right, it would definitely be like 50 or 60 and it went way over.
[00:32:54] But it's not one of those things that like... 63. It's not one of those things that made 15. No, no, no. But it was like... They were like, it costs $150 million. It was a bit of a baffling movie. I think people were also like,
[00:33:04] why isn't that movie what I thought it was gonna be? Which is like, fun guys in pastel suits. Why is it shot on home video cameras? Right, what's with this digital? Colin... It was the moment where everyone was like, we've been bamboozled on Colin Farrell
[00:33:16] and you've been trying to tell me he's a movie star and I refuse. And Jimmy Foxx is egoic. I was so stoned. He was like, I don't remember making a movie. I wrapped it and went into rehab. Whereas Jimmy Foxx left during production
[00:33:30] because Dominican gangsters fired gunshots at the set. It became such a legendary thing. He was high on his shit. I just think post that movie, especially because it was released as a summer action movie and then mainstream audiences rejected it, the man fans had to be like,
[00:33:46] you know what? I'm not keeping this to myself anymore. This guy's a genius. Man fans started getting really loud because they were like, we have to fight for this. Well, because it was, you know, like, oh, he made that early kind of like cheesy
[00:33:56] pre-science of the lamps, Hannibal liked her movie. And then it's like, oh, Last of the Mohicans, that's the same guy, weird. And then it's like big prestigious Oscar movies that do really well. And in retrospect are both phenomenal. Yeah, of course. The Insider and L.L.E.
[00:34:11] And the Insider I hadn't seen in years and we rewatched it when Black Hat came out. We did a little man series. I have never seen that. Never seen the Insider. I'm very excited to watch it. Wait, is that the only one you've never seen?
[00:34:21] Never seen Mohicans either. Wow, you're good for a treat. And I hadn't seen these two. I hadn't seen Thief and Key. So you were like, oh, I've only seen half of them, maybe. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You've seen Manhunter though? I've seen Manhunter.
[00:34:31] Insider, when we rewatched it, I was like, this is insane. This movie is out of control. Like the style in this is not, this is not like a prestige Oscar movie. This is an insane movie. Oh sure. The Insider moves. He's out of his way of filming.
[00:34:45] I talked about that a bit on the Thief one. I saw it because I was 13 years old and it was an Oscar movie and I was like, I need to see. I'm going to be the Insider. Yes, I need to see this Oscar movie.
[00:34:52] You're gonna flip out for Pacino. I mean, you're gonna be milking Pacino impressions from the Insider for years. That is, it's true. There's one, but also a bomber impression. There's also one monologue that, there's one thing Pacino screams in that movie. It's like three solid minutes of screaming.
[00:35:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah. As good as anything he's ever screamed. I want to say two things. One, I was an avid Empire Magazine boy when I was a young boy, as I've talked about on this podcast. It's been expensive to get that subscription.
[00:35:17] In England, living in England, living in England. We get a reaction from you two, Alex. I'm just laughing. Griffin wheels away. He does wheel away. I told them to. I don't want to blow out the mic. And they were always very like,
[00:35:30] Michael Mann is one of the important directors because Empire was always like a bit of a boy magazine that liked the high end genre stuff maybe. I don't know why. A lab mag. A bit of a lab mag. As your brats would sigh.
[00:35:42] Because in Britain there was Total Film which was a little more like, I don't know, it was very bro-y and very like, yeah, we like, Guy Ritchie, right? You know what I mean? Empire was like classier than that. But not as classy as like Sight and Sound
[00:35:55] which is obviously very academic. And anyway. I gotta ask, do you three guys have your Sight and Sound 10 list? Like, have you done it so that you're like, well someday they're gonna ask me? No, I'd love to do it. Hit me up, Sight and Sound.
[00:36:10] I have my own general vague 10 in my mind but one's the next one 2022. 2022. Erlich and I talk about all the time. I gotta be, I gotta get invited to that right now. Oh my God. Let's do that list. I've specifically made a Sight and Sound list
[00:36:24] that's different than my personal 10 or even- You know who has a terrible Sight and Sound list? Michael Mann. We talked about it on our Thief episode. Let's bring it back. You got that out of the way. We talked about the fact that Avatar is on it.
[00:36:35] We talked about the fact that Beautiful is on it which is the greatest thing in the world. Yeah, that's like a famously terrible, I mean Michael Mann, what a fascinating guy. He writes well about it. Yeah. He's reading books now. He's on Instagram. He's wild on Instagram.
[00:36:49] Isn't Guillermo del Toro doing a Michael Mann documentary? Sounds good, can't wait. Is it like De Palma? He pushed off all of his projects after he won the Oscar and was like, I'm gonna take a year talking to my three favorite living filmmakers.
[00:37:02] And I forget who the other two were but he's like, I'm gonna sit down with them. Probably Coron and then you reach him. The third one is Guillermo del Toro. George Miller. George Miller. He's basically just doing the bracket. Yeah. Michael Mann. That's all I'm seeing.
[00:37:17] Maybe it's just the two of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought there was a third. Well he said two weeks apiece he's doing with each of them. Right, and I think he's filming it and he's gonna release it as a book.
[00:37:26] Hopefully it'll be a long like De Palma style documentary. I just want everyone to do a De Palma movie. I made that pitch. Yeah. You know, De Paltro bound back. Like every director who's like 70 now it should be the law. Yeah.
[00:37:39] But you have to sit down with somebody and they'll just be like, okay, and next we've got the keep talk for 10 minutes. Right? And like the movie doesn't have to be good. It should be fine. Yeah. You know, it should be very watchable and I want that.
[00:37:52] Around the time of this coming out the piece I've been making on Paul Schrader for the criteria. When is that? It's gonna be early criterion channel. I was wondering about it because it was gonna be for the film structure. Yeah. That's what happens when you do something
[00:38:03] for so long that the thing you're doing it for ceases to exist. Or that's what happens in a world where things only exist for 12 months before their conglomerate shuts them down. It's not like that because he doesn't want to talk about all that stuff
[00:38:14] and it's not a feature length but it is a man of that age just sitting giving no shits and just kind of like... Which sounds fantastic. Throwing, you know, throwing insults at everyone of his generation and just generally being a maniac. We did get him to talk...
[00:38:29] We've got good socks right now. Oh thanks. Just speaking of socks. From Pendleton. A killer sock. Yeah, I did get him to talk about Facebook and our final piece with him. But yeah, it's a great idea but you know what's interesting you see this online like
[00:38:42] the keep is like referred to as a movie that like Michael Mann doesn't talk about. Like if they made that movie he would be like, he made Thief and he made this movie called The Keep and then Manhunter. Right, right, right. And the way that like
[00:38:53] the movie that this sort of reminds me of Friedkin's The Guardian which is comparably a disaster or you know equally a disaster is like in the Friedkin book The Guardian and Deal of the Century are the only movies he does not even mention in his like 400 page autobiography.
[00:39:07] But you know there's so many movies like this and we've covered them on this show before where it's like someone's first film they were trying to make something that was a little more of a genre exercise it was taken away from them
[00:39:19] they released a version that they kind of disowned and that's what made them like such a single-minded artist. You know, like James Cameron after like Prana 2 is like fuck it I'm never taking a guff from anyone ever again. I'm gonna make the exact movie I want.
[00:39:33] Like this feels like the movie that like Michael Mann comes out of fully formed and instead it's like this is the movie that comes after the fully formed Michael Mann movie. Well that was also as you probably covered comes after years of other fully formed things.
[00:39:46] Right, right, right. He's not like some neophyte who randomly made a good movie. But even just trying to make it through the studio system you know like this feels like a first film then someone overcomes. It seems to stay online
[00:39:57] that he wanted to make an adult fairy tale. That's what he said, an adult fairy tale of fascism. He threw out a lot of the book. I wonder why he would want to make an adult fairy tale has nothing to do with Chicago
[00:40:06] there's no role for Dennis Farina. Why does he want to make this movie? So I found an interview with Ian McKellen where he said he did a lot of research on the accent for the character and the time period and he showed up on set.
[00:40:19] Cause he's like Romanian. This is like set in Romanian. And he worked on the Romanian thing and trying to be air appropriate. And he got on set and after the first take Michael Mann was like, can you drop the accent make it sound a little more Chicago?
[00:40:32] Ian McKellen says literally Michael Mann said can you just make it more like a Chicago kind of petois? Well, he didn't. No, I mean, everyone in this just uses an English accent. There's no accents. McKellen's voice is very weirdness. I mean, it does feel like someone who prepped
[00:40:47] a very specific accent and then was told to drop it and couldn't fully drop it. I'm very excited. Let's maybe we'll save the McKellen corner for when we get to his arrival in the movie. We'll do a full performance review because it's fascinating. It's very exciting.
[00:41:00] We should do a full performance. But you know, like this is an interesting thing cause like that's why I want to be here. This is the one to see. Like if there was a Michael Mann retrospective, this will be the one that you're like, right? Oh, the key.
[00:41:10] Oh, they never screened that. Yeah. And whenever it's screened in New York, it's always sold out. It's screened at Nighthawk years ago and it was sold out and it's been to bam. Yes. So there is like, I couldn't go to that screen. It was like a print.
[00:41:20] There is because it used to be, it used to just be on Amazon Prime and it was like the most hateful unspeakable print. It looked like someone had pointed it out. That's where I watched it. At a VHS, right? And now it's been updated. It's better now. Yeah.
[00:41:32] Okay. It also used to be on Netflix streaming. Right. And it used to be very grimy. It was never released on DVD. It was never released on Blu-ray. The VHS was hard to come by. And it used to have like a temp score. Now it doesn't.
[00:41:42] There is a print that whenever it pops up, it sells out. Well, fair enough. It's popped up a couple of times. The other crazy thing. No, I'm sorry. What were you guys talking about? Oh, nothing. Keep on keeping on. I'll keep on keeping on.
[00:41:52] The other crazy thing is when this movie came out, I found a bunch of the reviews where people complained that you couldn't hear any of the dialogue because the Tangerine's dream score was so overwhelming. I certainly don't know anything about movies like that.
[00:42:07] Keep people because there is like a really rabid keep hive. There is. There are people who fucking love this movie, like in the horror community. Andy Levy is one of them. Like not like a man people. Yeah, well, Andy Levy too. But like there is like a subsection
[00:42:21] of like 80s horror people who for them, this is one of the sacred objects. And those people who have seen the film in many forms, seen it screened, seen it VHS, saw it when it came out, claim that this new sort of digital
[00:42:35] transfer that exists, that you can wrench from iTunes or Amazon, that is of a slightly better quality, not high def, but of a better quality than the copy that used to exist. That also it maybe was a little bit remastered on the levels
[00:42:50] and that the music more used to be more overwhelming. Apparently it used to be like inaudible. Both the editing and the audio on the Amazon copy seem like you're watching a work print. Like it's not great. Like when you would find like a bootleg in the 90s,
[00:43:05] it's like, oh, this is the apocalypse now work print or like this is the three hour spinal. It also watching the movie, you're like, is this him trying to make like the Holy Mountain? Like is there even supposed to be any attempt at a coherent narrative?
[00:43:18] No, because there's shit like Lance Henrich showing up and then five seconds later there's a sex scene. You mean Scott Glenn. Sorry. It's not Lance. I always confuse that. He kind of has a Henryson and own structure. I'm very excited by this because I was behind Scott Glenn
[00:43:29] and airport security very recently. Oh, how's he doing? He looks great. Does he? Right now. I don't know. He has TSA. All I can say is that he has TSA pre-check. That rules. That's where we were. He was leaving LaGuardia for some reason and he looked great.
[00:43:42] I was very excited. Maybe he was going to the keep. Yeah. He had to blast some energy at some point. His eyes lit up and he was just on his way. I'm on my way. Because isn't that his vibe in this movie?
[00:43:51] He's just like, shit got to go to the keep. Like that's like his arc. He wakes up in Greece and takes a boat to the keep. Yep. There's something weirdly modern about him in this movie where when they cut to him for the first time. Right.
[00:44:02] And even just like a hairdo. He's supposed to be like an elemental being and it's like what's the element of being? It's like Scott Glenn with blue eyes, like glowing eyes. When they cut to him I was like, oh, so this is like a parallel narrative movie
[00:44:12] where we're going to cut back and forth between like the 40s and Scott Glenn in like 1980s Los Angeles. And then he showed up at the keep and I was like, wait, this guy's supposed to be in the 40s? Yes. I had two things I wanted to say.
[00:44:27] Please. One, say anything. In terms of just Michael Mantoc, he is like the opposite of James Cameron in our purposes in that he never makes the guarantor in a way. Yeah. I was going to ask where you placed his sort of big,
[00:44:41] you know, I mean, he is sort of well, I think he had this point as the guarantor. Last of them, he can do his biggest hit adjusted for inflation. And I guess that was like no one could object to that.
[00:44:52] It may double what it cost in America alone, right? You know, it was well received, right? Like, you know, man, that's what gets him heat. Right? I have a take. Can I give you my take? OK.
[00:45:03] My take is he never has the movie that's enough of a hit to be a guarantor. He does the closest, I think. The way he gets his checkbook is because massive stars want to work with him. Right, he always gets cast that are eager.
[00:45:17] Is that those people like you look at that run and it's like, OK, you have De Niro, Puccino, Tom Cruise, Will Smith, Johnny Depp, Mollissar. Mollissar. Yeah. Yes. I mean, Insiders and Violet Davis and Black Hat. Yes. Insiders, weirdly kind of an outlier because it's like
[00:45:37] Puccino was at the end of his leading man run and Russell Crowe was about to pop. No, but Puccino totally counts. Totally. I'm saying the other guys were literally like the second or third biggest box office star at that moment.
[00:45:48] But every one of these always worked with the dudes who are at the fucking top. Every one of the post heat movies, like Insider, like kind of makes what it costs. Yeah. You know, Ali doesn't make what it loses a lot of collateral makes a little successful
[00:45:59] because they're a word. They're wards in their well received collateral made more because the time cruise cost a lot. Yeah. Some of those things are like, oh, public enemies did well. Oh, it costs a lot. Right. Like I said, I don't think anyone is saying
[00:46:11] like I want to be in the Michael Man business because I love big bucks, baby. Right. That's never going to. So he's weirdly an odd choice for us, but then he always gets checks. Well, the thing is, except not anymore.
[00:46:22] Right. The thing is every time he was in seems to be one of those people that has been forced into retirement. Yeah. I mean, I guess he's always kind of maybe making another movie, but he was supposed to make a Ferrari movie
[00:46:32] with Christian Bale and now another for Mangle made a Ferrari movie that's coming up this year. And secretly it's a Western. No, yeah. I mean the mangled cocktail, but it just seems like the industry has kind of finally had enough of the Michael Mans of the world.
[00:46:44] Yeah. Same with Fincher. Same that all these guys. I mean, same with Scorsese kind of. And these are like these kinds of guys. Yes. Scorsese, the studios are like fuck off. No, too much money. I don't know about that. I don't want to not make money anymore.
[00:46:56] So he goes to Netflix who will like give him money movies perform better. Netflix should make a Michael Manmo. He could not get the Irishman made with a studio. Well, but that's also because he was asking for like 200
[00:47:07] million dollars and also he wanted the entire cast of vinyl to play the entire one notable exception. There's one person. I'm not saying that Scorsese couldn't like ever get a movie made again, but I will say like, you know, these are all very interesting comparisons.
[00:47:23] And this is why I love Michael Man is like he is so not one of those. There he has nothing to do with like the American Cinema of the 70s, which a lot of those people do. He eats his own product.
[00:47:35] Yeah, like he's like, you know, like when you hear these kind of comments where it's like Tarantino says like, oh, the 80s were the worst decade for American movies. We were just talking about this. This is your favorite day. It's just like a counterpoint. Actually, they're the best.
[00:47:48] And like you're kind of not that into the 70s guys. Well, I mean, of course, I always have been, but like I just came to love the things that were of my lifetime more. So let's talk about some of the like who are the 80s
[00:47:58] contemporaries? I mean, to me it's like for Hoverhead, for Hoverhead. Mount Rushmore is like Michael Man, Shrader, the Poma, who like spans a lot of these things. Like he even has like these 60s movies. And then he is one of those 70s guys and then he's
[00:48:12] also one of those 80s guys. This Mount Rushmore is a serious coke problem. Yeah, it's a pretty... The noses are like... The alimony this Mount Rushmore has to pay on a monthly basis is through the roof. The concession stand only has whiskey and mountains of drugs and cigars.
[00:48:30] Oh boy. But like, you know, like these kind of like, and Friedkin who again like is a 70s guy, but I think his 80s work is like phenomenal. Like that 80 stuff is just very exciting and it's much more interesting to me.
[00:48:41] But now like the 80s quote unquote in like the stranger things sense close telling you make that mug. Yeah, I have the clip loaded. We're going to look at it afterwards. Like the 80s had become like the stranger things Bullyabase and like the 80s is like when people
[00:48:58] say the 80s are bad, it's like, oh, you know, it's just like the Goonies and like kids movies being made by studios. But it's like the kid of Ambulan and like... It's like, oh, but no, actually the 80s are to me like Michael Mann is figuring like
[00:49:10] man hunters in the 80s, American jiggalos in the 80s. Sure. But also the 80s were body double. Body double. They're both in their cast. He's one of your guys. It's like he's maybe one time he works in the concession. Hot time, cast panion.
[00:49:25] But it's like those are really exciting. When you like look at the 80s, like to me, it's like, oh yeah, like Michael Mann movies mean that the 80s is very valuable. Of course. And this is part of that. But this is like this weird kind of fantasy movie
[00:49:38] that's not Amblinny at all. I guess or no one likes it. And also doesn't really work as any traditional horror movie which like horror is really robust at this point in time in American cinema. 100%. Right. And this is like kind of a weird tweener thing
[00:49:51] that doesn't fit into any conventional horror. Because this is right, because this is not a movie. Basically. Yeah, but I think it doesn't count as a movie. I mean, it's very watchable. I actually like it. Yeah. There's things I like about it a lot. It's very captivating.
[00:50:04] It's very captivating, but like it doesn't make any sense. And if you ask the director about it, he's like, well, yeah, we never really finished it. I mean, it's like two in that sense or whatever. These things where they're like, I don't know.
[00:50:15] I let some Italian guy put his name on it. Yeah, they took it away and it's not like a done movie. I mean, the weird thing about it is there are certain things it gains from being hacked to death like that.
[00:50:25] Because somehow the weird gaps, the things that aren't explained these like key character development should happen. Right. It's just the key getting to you. It has this weird kind of dream logic to it. Keep. Yeah. You know what I'm saying though?
[00:50:40] Like it feels like a Yoderowski movie to me where it's like, you just got a vibe on it. You can't make any sense of this thing. Right. You understand the basic principle. Right. It could be 30 minutes long or three hours long. Right. Right. Both valid and it's valid.
[00:50:54] Honestly, like because I'd seen it a couple times and Anna was like, I don't really need to rewatch the key if you can watch that yourself. Sure. I was watching it. And I will say also, I said to you, Michael Mann, and like before I was even
[00:51:06] done saying man, you were like the key. Of course. You always want to pick the one that doesn't exist. Yeah. Well because otherwise- I'd exist the least. Otherwise you won't have one of your top 10 longest episodes about a movie that has no reputation
[00:51:17] and is essentially not important to that director's body of work. Sure. But I had seen it before and I remembered thinking it wasn't so great the last time I watched it and I really enjoyed it the other day. I really found it to be like in my mind,
[00:51:28] it was like a real like two star movie. I found it very like aesthetically pleasing. Like I had a certain kind of like ASMR like kind of tingle through watching the whole movie. It's very, it's perfect vibe. I mean that's very- Yeah. Grif friendly. He can do like-
[00:51:44] It's very griff friendly. He can do a wonderful vibe standing on his head. Like- Yes. He can make these beautiful images and this perfect music easily. And he does that here with the plomb. I guess that's what's weird though is that
[00:51:54] it's such a different vibe than what he usually does. I mean I was reading through an interview that Roger Ebert did with him right after Thief came out. Sure. And Roger Ebert was like this guy's the new triple threat. He's a writer, director, producer
[00:52:08] and he's going to be the new like Scorsese, the new Coppola. He's like- Ebert called that he was going to become the next guy in Mount Rushmore and that this was the film that kind of threw him off the path
[00:52:18] that everyone thought like well Thief is his mean streets and he's going to make his taxi driver next. Like this guy's going to be on a miracle run. Right. And everyone sort of checks out after Keep for a little bit.
[00:52:28] And in that interview A he says do you think you'll ever produce movies that you don't direct? And he goes yeah well I have a lot of projects that I feel like I'm not the right director for. I don't have enough time to do all of them.
[00:52:40] Like for example I wrote this script called Heat that I'm really proud of. I think it's the best thing I've written but I couldn't even imagine directing that thing. And he said that in like 82 and then he makes that like takedown like- 89. Right.
[00:52:53] And then five years after he's like fuck it, hold my beer. Like I'll finally like make the thing. But the other thing he said in the interview was like Roger Ebert was asking him about his style. And we were talking about how stylized Thief is.
[00:53:08] Like how in his own way Michael Mann is as heightened and stylized as Tim Burton except it's a very different kind of style. It's a very extreme comparison. Well he said my style I like to call it stylized reality. Like I'm very obsessed with the tangible
[00:53:22] reality of the thing and getting all the details right. And then I'm stylizing what is real. Did Ben like the part in Heat where James Kahn screams about his clothes? You mean in Thief? In Thief, of course. In the car when he runs down how much I've got.
[00:53:35] Oh yeah, Rolex is making sure. I love too how he just like throws around terminology for like classifying jewelry. Like we all know what that means. He's like it's a friggin D. Yeah. Of like I don't know what that is. Because that's definitely my favorite scene in Thief
[00:53:48] where he just screams about how expensive his tastes are. Ben scoffed at it and called him a cheapskate. You should, Alex. These boys found out about my taste. Yeah he recommended a $5,000 shirt to me the other day. Well you look good in it. Thank you. It looks great.
[00:54:03] Yeah. Patreon money right there on Griffin's shirt? That is what's interesting to me about. I mean Manhunter is very stylized as well but still is like that sort of baseline like he's working off of what reality is. For him to even want to make a fairy tale.
[00:54:19] For him to want to make a movie that has like magical elements in it feels very odd with his whole like career. It's very incongruous. That's why I was so excited. And it's entirely un-success- I mean it's not his strong suit. It's funny that he's never done anything
[00:54:34] that doesn't have like a guy with a gun running down the street. It's the one. Like he never even- It wasn't like oh now I can go back to that. I made the insider now I can finally like make my fairy tale again. Right.
[00:54:45] He seems to have no interest in that. I mean because he said like he read the book and didn't like it but liked the idea of making a fairy tale for adults about fascism. What a gross phrase by the way. So weird.
[00:54:55] I know the most unappealing pitch in the world. But also that is like the pitch for Pan's Labyrinth. Sure I don't like Pan's Labyrinth. Like here's a fairy tale for adult. You don't interesting. Not really. I mean I think it's okay.
[00:55:05] Yeah I just think it's interesting that like you hear Guillermo de Toro wants to do that and you're like yeah that seems like in line with that guy's sensibility. He seems like a big fat child. Right.
[00:55:14] But Michael Mann seems like someone that would like take a kid's toys away and tell him to like- Grow the fuck up. Wise up to how corrupt the world is. Yeah it's like you're on the cash register because I gotta go take a cigarette break.
[00:55:23] But like weirdly the sort of like- Five year old. The sort of like if there's anything in here that seems like it excites him it is the sort of like relationship between corruption. And one thing he always does is he always makes bad guys seem very appealing. Yes.
[00:55:36] Like that's true in this movie. You can see why he'd want to try to make something that's vaguely Nazi-ish. Like he makes bad guys seem kind of cool. Well and then like- Or in his best movies extremely cool. Right.
[00:55:46] The tough guys making tough decisions like here's a man backed into a corner. That's like I mean it feels the thing that he's connecting with here is the Ian McKellen character where it's like what is he gonna do in relation to the Nazis? Yeah sure.
[00:56:01] Like you could see him wanting to be like well you know I like the idea of a movie that's like people guarding something. Right. In my mind it would be like a safe full of money but this is good enough. It keeps- Right.
[00:56:12] It's that sort of spiritual barrier. Yeah. Okay Michael Mann wants to make a horror movie. It's about a supernatural creature that's attacking Nazi soldiers so they hire a Jew to try to stop it. Sort of. I mean here's- Sort of. Here's what I like about the keep.
[00:56:26] I think the setup of this movie is great. The beginning is very elegant and very costly. The first 20 minutes you're like oh this is this has to be a good movie. This is like high art. Because it's like we've come to this crazy set.
[00:56:34] It just feels like Sorcerer. Which at this time was like a movie you probably couldn't mention in Hollywood without being thrown off the lot right now. Exactly. But it feels like that. It's this set that's like very stark and actually cool. Not like trying to be right.
[00:56:49] It's just- That keeps that with the crosses. The big fucking pile of rocks with these weird crosses. They're Nazis so you're like okay. Jürgen Prochnow. Jürgen Prochnow. Right. And everything with Nazis and the supernatural is of interest. Exactly. Any kind of Nazi spiritualism stuff is weird.
[00:57:07] Yeah. Yeah. So they're walking around. Wait it's so weird this is coming so soon after Raiders of the Lost are? After like you understand how he could sell this movie. Maybe. I mean when I'm watching the movie at first I'm like is it all about Nazis?
[00:57:20] Did I forget something? But you know Scott Glenn's gonna show up, Ian McKellen's gonna show up. Something I did right much later is that this movie has no main character. No it has no main character. It does not.
[00:57:28] Like it keeps introducing a main character but then they are not the main character. Well Scott Glenn is top build. He is top build. And apparently he was supposed to be the main character and they cut out most of his stuff.
[00:57:39] Why is it that when movies get cut it's never from the main character? They always cut out the good stuff. It's like we need to cut an hour out of this movie just cut out the end.
[00:57:48] Right you're a big proponent of most movies can start like 40 minutes later. This could start with him just waking up like you know they open the key. And then we'll figure it out the Nazis are there. But I just but it is all good.
[00:57:59] I like that idea when they were like established where he is. Right. Once you know what it says, Greece and the bright side. We'll get to Scott Glenn. But like I just like that idea of there's these crosses. They're not cross crosses. But they're things.
[00:58:12] They're in the Carpathian Mountains which is already also cool. It's like Transylvania you know adjacent. Right it's like a Jewish pyramid. It's a weird Golem pyramid maybe and some Nazis are like this must be silver. Let's take it and the custodian or whatever he is.
[00:58:27] First they're just like this is your new outpost. Yeah first they're like we just have to live here. Yeah and they're stringing up lights. Got stuck on Monster Guard again. Someone tries to take I my favorite thing is just someone's trying to take the cross
[00:58:39] and the custodians like don't do that. And no one's like why explain exactly what would happen if I took the cross. They're just like all right. One of my favorite. No one makes an announcement to everyone like by the way the creepy guy with the beard
[00:58:50] said don't take the crosses you know what I mean. Well they have no reason to believe him. One of my favorite things is anytime that they're like wait a minute these aren't keeping things out they're keeping something in. Oh that's you're right that's such a good reversal.
[00:59:01] And this hits that pretty quickly and it's very exciting. I remember that was in the preview for one of the exorcist prequels. I forget if it was the Shrader one or the ready Harlan one.
[00:59:11] There's like a reveal of statues in a church and they're like wait a minute. I think it's the Harlan one. These spears are pointing down they're not protecting us they're keeping things from coming up. It's in the trailer yes I remember the spears pointing down.
[00:59:21] I was just like I love that. That was the line in the trailer that got me to see that movie. Yeah me too. Yeah any time that something was revealed to actually be keeping something in I'm excited so now like the movie is great at this point like
[00:59:33] Nazis are there to keep as well as I'm all about it and then some. Have you seen it before? Yes I've seen it one time before but out of like completionism largely and I think I had watched that terrible version. Yeah.
[00:59:45] And then some Nazis pry open across right and they get exploded they get brought which is also cool that is nicely super cool. Yeah the corpse is really also interesting because like practical effects like Michael may doesn't really do that either no he's not a special effect.
[01:00:01] No this has to be like the only one in fact is now like really regarded as being like such a master very practical exactly. Exactly he basically like teaches you how to rob a bank like that's what the movie is. Right but it is done well.
[01:00:15] It's done very well and I like the whooshing wind stuff you know the sort of in and out and when they open the cross they kind of found out like you know there's something below the keep there's like this big cavern there's
[01:00:24] like a shot that pulls all the way down. Yeah which is so cool love all of this. And then we cut to Scott Glenn in the movies right basically like derailed almost immediately right when it should be off to the races it's goes off to the golf course.
[01:00:37] Yes and you're like can we get back to the races. I like all that and they're like all right now let's meet Scott Glenn in McKellen in a wheelchair and Gabriel Byrne like in quick order with no real
[01:00:47] explanation like you met Byrne by this point because they because he shows up when they bring him in when they die. He's the heightened because he comes in and he's like it's definitely these Romanian peasants who exploded a guy shoot them all and they just keep
[01:00:58] saying like eight of our soldiers have died and then the next time they're like six more have died. Yeah you don't get to see any of the death but you do see like this couple like the hole at the bottom of the keep is like Moria it's very
[01:01:09] exciting very cool good idea. It seems very ancient it's like believable that this is very threatening. Yeah don't don't take the crosses can we say we're going to do with the crosses anyway like who's around who's like them you dummy they only want the
[01:01:24] one because they're all nickel except for one silver. Yeah yeah silver was real good though don't that's the important one they also do look like tin foil they do they do they're very very poorly I wonder if some prop guy like stole one and still has it like
[01:01:38] bent into his wall. The creepy beard guy at the beginning who's like explaining the custodian guy what's his name? My name is Morgan Shepherd. He says like my father did it his father guarded yes his father created the keeper.
[01:01:48] The voice he's doing which I looked it up because I was curious if he was the dude he sounds so much like one of the movie trailer guys. He does not Don LaFontaine but one of the other like in a land
[01:02:01] where everything has turned evil and then I looked him up and that's not like his voice at all that's like the voice he chose for this character but the way he's like explaining like the mystery of the keep sounds like he's just doing the voice over for the
[01:02:15] trailer of the movie he's in. I also like where the Nazis are like wait wait back up you live here yeah like are you in charge are you a religious person? We didn't question it I do my job my father did it my son will do it too.
[01:02:30] It's the 20th century you just like make sure no one disturbs this pile of right like you know if the check clears I don't question it. This is like I wrote down like when you cut to Greece and then you meet
[01:02:40] Ariel Byrne this is like in the 24 25 minute mark yeah like this is basically a third of the way through this yeah that's what's crazy short movie yeah and everything up until here has been very nice love it but then they
[01:02:50] like find the weird Cyrillic writing yet they find the weird writing they're just like let's go get that old Jew who we're keeping locked up right because we see do we've seen McKellen on a boat with his daughter
[01:03:02] and he's kind of infirm he's very in his voice sounds totally dubbed it also sounds exactly like Gandalf right I can't speak to the ADR like yes every everyone in this movie might have been him dubbing himself but he feels ADR
[01:03:17] he's doing this weird like Eastern European Gandalf voice right and he's like pan-kicked in makeup so what and you're like why are they not hiring an old person it's one of those well but right now is only like 70 and when they made this movie right right
[01:03:32] he was still a young man but this is I'm glad we're at McKellen now because this is very I mean I don't think of him as being in anything at this time but I'm sure he was in many things
[01:03:40] no I don't think so he wasn't in a lot of times he was a theater guy mostly it wasn't until like Richard the third that he really kind of and that's why that's 95 95 I'm trying to find
[01:03:51] because you have to not stage come on filmography I mean he's in he plays this is his this is honestly this is his fifth role but three of the roles are were made in like the 60 so like
[01:04:02] it's his second role basically interesting my favorite in McKellen performance of the early 90s of course is him as the seven seals I knew you're gonna version of death I can tell you remember
[01:04:14] that that last actually plays death from the seventh seal right right right right which is another thing where when you look back at that movie as with this you're like oh we in McKellen had a
[01:04:23] whole career before right he was in McKellen remember he pops up and I'll do anything right right you know like that's he used to be like an English guy right you know who you could have
[01:04:33] play an English but he's very exciting in this movie I feel like if you made this movie today he's still the guy you cast in that role no class he'd be so good I don't know how you
[01:04:42] d age I guess you would just like do the magneto filter on him right yeah but it's very interesting he's very maybe he just turns into Michael fast well he does seem to be
[01:04:49] playing magneto in this movie sort of he is captain this jewish he's like a jew with magic powers yes it's been locked away and then he forms an unholy alliance you know but you know
[01:05:01] but he's very tempted by evil he's very exciting but one thing about him is like now you have Gabriel burn yeah playing a Nazi correct which he is not aesthetically qualified to do
[01:05:11] sure Gabriel burn is irish as fuck yes um and he and mckellan playing a jew I feel like a mckellan does anybody go back and forth between jews and nazis more than him that's a great because in
[01:05:24] richard great call Richard the third he's you know fission at people obviously you know and then this you got bent he's a jew and bent he's doing the x-men movie is concentration camp survivor
[01:05:37] uh yeah I don't think there's anything else in his filmography that I'm thinking of it's quite is extreme obviously he played James whale which is neither but yeah sure but just played a couple
[01:05:45] other jews I'm trying to remember I mean the polar bear in the golden compass is jewish right that's kind of gandalf gandalf is jewish he says gandalf awaits an ls island and he brings a big
[01:05:56] platter of locks to the hobbits right yeah start of the movie come on hobbits come on take it easy already eat god get the ring when we get the ring uh he plays gust the theater cat and
[01:06:08] cats this year is gust the theater cat jewish you know either a jewish name or a nazi name I look I don't want to do an episode on cats okay but I definitely want to do just a performance
[01:06:19] review of cats okay that cast is so insane and those characters are so stupid that I'm going to be very interested in also cats is just a performance review because the plot of cats is that a bunch
[01:06:29] of cats do a performance review who plays buster for jones in the morning and whoever wins gets to go to heaven right buster is being played by james cordon how do you feel about that um
[01:06:40] yeah that's okay you want to do it you want to run it down idris elba macaveni rebel wilson genny annie dot let us let us react okay idris elba macaveni okay very logical rebel wilson
[01:06:51] idris elba is in that fastbender zone right now yeah where it's like is this guy bankable i don't know but let's cast in everything I mean everything in everything let's just like hold for a while he's
[01:07:01] I guess he's been in there for a few years Pacific Rim was quite a few years ago oh he's constantly in the apocalypse from atheists right yes he's literally in that fastbender zone that's
[01:07:11] true he was in his own there but now he's taking like clear lead or clear villain roles yeah let's not we don't we don't need to react okay all right all right all right all right all right all right
[01:07:19] are you worried about timing no I want to save the timing for man I'm okay like judy dench old deuteronomy obvious yima kellen gus the theater cabs right these are those are lazy choices
[01:07:29] Taylor swift okay yeah bummel arena excited about that I was so into that James Corden bust over john sure and by the way I got some intel on trader for the piece about his Taylor swift
[01:07:39] of course big fan yeah I got about why he thinks she's so great but he'll talk about it in your well not to you know subscribe to the criterion exactly but it did make the final cut well I mean
[01:07:49] we haven't finished yet but we're getting to the good shit I mean there's one that I really Jennifer Hudson grisabello sure right yeah Jason Derulo Rumpton Tucker what's happening here
[01:07:58] who was that Jason Derulo how does one describe I mean he's not an actor no he's a singer it's like an r&b singer yeah he's famous for saying his own name and song sometimes Jason Derulo are they in
[01:08:11] the may are they gonna look like they look in the in the stage show that's a great question only is going to be like the cat in the hat Michael Meyer we must do that he also he should
[01:08:21] be in it as the cat in the hat right he should show up closes the book I hope they literally just take the cat in the hat makeup yeah and have them all wear that the exact same but there's no I mean
[01:08:31] is there a chance that there's like special effects in this movie I don't know me I'm just wearing the stage makeup and the leotard it's Tom Hooper anything could happen anything could happen from the twisted mind of Tom Hooper this is Christmas this year Christmas yeah it's literally
[01:08:43] opening the same weekend as um uh Star Wars episode nine I want to I want to have a movie on the blank the blank check picture slate okay oh that's a goal do you want an existing one or do
[01:08:55] you want to hit like you want I don't know you want to see what's in development we got a couple could good ones developing without any talent attached a remake of the keep starring griffin as
[01:09:04] he and mckelin roll yeah no you got to keep mckelin griffin gonna be the daughter or something I'll be the daughter it may be mckelin has some other yeah you would yeah well let's go back
[01:09:12] to mckelin I feel like okay he is so fun to watch but he does like basically he literally says as he does in fellowship they're coming they're coming they are here right in this movie just
[01:09:22] says I am Gandalf the gray yeah he's Gandalf literally says that in this movie I wanted a scene where after he gets touched by mollusar he like does a dance sort of like the Six Flags guy
[01:09:33] or Charlie and the chocolate factory's grandpa Joe you know what I mean right here he's like I could dance you know like that that would have been good I feel like one thing about that
[01:09:41] which is a very exciting scene yes but it's almost entirely shot from the reverse where you don't see mollusar's face well because that is that we should mention mollusar's the name which
[01:09:49] has never said in the movie I believe I don't think anyone says that I mean but in that scene is a mollusar he's mostly dry ice right he's not yet been revealed as a but basically I mean it's a
[01:09:58] you know let's assume people maybe haven't seen the keep okay basically like they bring him in to read the surreal like and then they just lock him in a room I do like that they bring him in
[01:10:07] and he confirms what they've already been told which is like oh no no he actually translates it properly right it's he's like wrote down that he says I will be free yeah right right they
[01:10:17] anyone else who reads the Cyrillic is like it just says like banana potato salad like table leg right like but also it's nonsense like I can read it but it doesn't mean he is in like a camp when
[01:10:27] they find out he's like behind barbara but he's like an expert on the mysticism of whatever you know and his daughter reveals that he is 48 years old he's 48 years old but he's hard 40 he's
[01:10:37] yeah he's a hard he got some city malls on and he in the book it's like you know it's it's hp lovecraft shit it's like mollusar is some ancient demon right so it's from that but then in the
[01:10:49] movie he's represented as looking like apocalypse he literally looks like oscaris ex apocalypse so apparently I mean even just the original apocalypse non non movie it's fair but the original apocalypse at least has an a on his belt so that you know who he is you don't
[01:11:04] forget his name yeah what a cool name apocalypse is it is amazing that no one had taken that one by like the 70s or where the time apocalypse shows up big apocalypse fan rules he's great
[01:11:15] couple stretchy go ahead of course this character sort of like materializes more and more every time you see him he starts out more sort of he really just wind right right and light sort of bringing some weird synchronicity to the hollow man episode right then he sort of
[01:11:32] comes like skeleton then just sort of muscle then he starts to have more and more of a human form apparently the idea was that he was moving towards looking like scott glenn yeah he was gonna be
[01:11:42] take like a terminator form the final fight would be good scott glenn versus bad scott glenn right right instead he is like this like just kind of like stunning like brick uh i do think
[01:11:56] he looks really cool in the muscle form but the other thing was apparently michael man could not decide what he wanted the character to look like this is i've read this too which is insane
[01:12:05] i can't really imagine this so like so what does the villain look like he's like i'm still thinking about it like as they're like building this set but make sure his make sure we have a mold of scott
[01:12:14] glenn space right but there was like a contradiction where it was like he couldn't make a decision but he also was very specific in knowing what he didn't want right so he kept on being like no
[01:12:24] it has to be exactly like this yeah and they would make it and he'd be like i don't like it at all this is presumably wall shooting or it was close to it the other thing was they hired a special
[01:12:33] effects supervisor who died two days into post-production and he had not explained to anyone else how he was gonna do it right right he was a 2001 guy right another one of those like real
[01:12:45] i mean that sounds like the plot of a movie where someone does some secrets but that feels dubious while wally weaver's totally true i mean it seems to be repeated a lot when you read about
[01:12:54] the key but how can that be true man said that he oversaw most of the special effects himself like he ended up taking on most of themself and i think they had to reshoot a lot of the stuff
[01:13:04] with the creature later yeah well when the creature first appears the nazis are raping mckellan's daughter right right and he just comes as a big blob of smoke very bad he comes
[01:13:16] to a big blob of smoke and then he touches mckellan and mckellan turns young well but even before that he like takes her away he like rescues her and like a shot that i wrote down is uh genuinely
[01:13:25] beautiful sure yeah sort of like carries her off into the smoke and it's like very evocative i like him best when he's uh smoky yeah i like i like the smokiness i like the muscle guy the
[01:13:36] muscle guy is cool you're right i mean the muscle guy's cool he's got the ridges too that you like you like everything about molestar is cool you know when you see his like red hand yeah his
[01:13:45] red hand is good they wrote down molestar action figure question mark okay so can i tell you how i mostly knew of this movie okay this would be like i i spent a lot of time in high school weirdly
[01:13:57] on a horror movie message board right despite not predominantly being a horror guy and there would always be certain people who are very vocal about wanting a company to make a molestar action figure makes sense there was always this group of people because this was like
[01:14:11] late 90s early 2000s where like Todd McFarlane was making all the horror characters in action figure form for the first time and there would always be people who would like bombard like the spawn website
[01:14:22] with requests from molestar and they'd be like no one will buy this we can't produce i had the mcfarland leather face right it was like all of those characters that like finally were like being made for collector audiences from like horror movies and uh the movie maniacs series
[01:14:37] and i was on this movie maniacs message board that was like kind of general movies but sort of more horror and like action figure stuff and i just saw like a thousand fucking like not even
[01:14:47] gifts it was like pre prominence of gifts just like molestar jpegs and i was like oh apparently some people think this is one of the great monster movie designs and then you watch this
[01:14:59] movie and you're like the overlap between people who like this film and buy action figures has to be the six people on that message board it cannot be larger i think a molestar figure would sell now
[01:15:10] i would buy it i think it would sell now i will say i just googled like molestar action figure and google's like did you mean pulsar action figure so google's definitely not on my side i was trying
[01:15:20] to find the old forum post and i couldn't do it last it was my searching of this that led me to the the merchandise spotlight that i shared which we'll get to but he's very cool and so yes
[01:15:28] you're right he merges with mcallon and then sort of becomes a full figure and m mcallon is young the other thing that happens is you now realize why a 70 year old man was playing a 90 year old man
[01:15:39] because he's actually going to spend most of the movie healed which is by the way identical to what happens in two towers when they go to rohan he he glows up oh right and for bernard hill gets uh
[01:15:53] it's just the same thing it's like someone who's really old and then suddenly the thing that's something happens but mcallon is actually sick he's not cursed he just he's sick as like an
[01:16:01] illness right it's he's 48 even though he looks 78 he has um what's it called a sclerodema scleroderma she's trying to get him to warm it up turn on the furnace um and that's the the idea of molestar i get
[01:16:15] the plot if it's happening at this point which is sort of like things are happening so this is where you see it happen so quickly this is where you feel like they just like cut out every other
[01:16:23] scene once again scucklund shows up at the end meets her and they fuck within 10 seconds right and the like lighting is completely different and there's one part where they're sitting inside talking like it's like it's in like a roadhouse they're sitting inside talking
[01:16:36] and then it just cuts to them sitting outside with like the sunset and then it just cuts back to them being inside but it's later yeah so you're saying right they're literally just like cut
[01:16:46] cut cut but she just like shows up and they're just like there's some guy in your room or something and they immediately have sex and we mentioned his name is gleakin his name is
[01:16:54] gleakin his name is gleakin he's imagine the pitch meeting right i'm thinking scott glenn and they're like you're thinking scot glenn for the leaf yeah i'm thinking of scot glenn it but he's going to be called gleakin trismagedis yes i'll fight molestar he'll fight molestar and they're like
[01:17:10] all right can they can you have sex he's like okay fine yeah sure i'll have a set we'll say like i mean gleakin fox we should say that he'll say apparently gleakin and molestar
[01:17:18] have been locked in some centuries old battle right will that be in the movie depends if you cut that out or not because the idea is not bad which is like molestar shows up seems good here are some
[01:17:31] of the things he does explodes nazis yeah prevent sexual assault all good things cures illnesses yeah seems like a cool guy rad and he's like yeah okay i may look like a big muscly you know smoke monster
[01:17:44] but don't worry about it i'm super chill can you just do me one favor and go and get that uh that talisman over there maybe pull it out and bring it to me and there's no reason ian mckellon who's
[01:17:57] like a good guy in this movie wouldn't be like all right well he does sort of get corrupt look at good bargain he gets corrupted a little bit by molestar you know like you mean make bargains
[01:18:06] with evil to defeat evil right you know it's like it's a good fairy tale idea so mckellon he's like you're working with the nazis we who are you to say like yeah he was in a camp right but
[01:18:17] but that's why he's saying he is like are you how why are you saving the lives of the people who are trying to kill your people and this would all be good and make sense if then the movie den
[01:18:26] dust doesn't it just pivots to like scotland shows up and blows up molestar there's no explanation why his magic power is his head can turn into the original theatrical one sheet
[01:18:34] for thief when he glows it looks like the thief one sheet with like his eyes blowing it also looks like the arnie model in the terminator when like arnie is like i'm now i'm gonna cut my eye
[01:18:45] and then we cut to like the robot right right one thing at this point is like this is about an hour in here when the monster you watch this thing been okay okay yeah i uh could not follow it i
[01:18:57] thought it was fun there's fun parts this is what he looks like that yes he does well like so i've written here is like an hour and two minutes in molestar appears in full i feel
[01:19:07] like at this point the movie hasn't sufficiently pivoted at all from the fact that like the rules of this world are different now right like it has this insane scene where like a character sort of
[01:19:17] talks to a demon monster from the depths of the keep right and then the movie just like goes on like none of that has happened right and everyone is just sort of like what's going on it remains
[01:19:26] but then there are occasional scenes such as robert prosky drinking a dog's blood yes that suggests that like all kinds of chaos is unfolding yes but no one explains that and there's no like
[01:19:38] expositional sort of dialogue of someone being like the townspeople are really acting up right like i was also really confused because ian mckellan's in a wheelchair but then he's walking now yeah he
[01:19:48] gets cured but he's cured with the molsters like zap from the nazis i couldn't follow no it's a go up it's a go up by the way i mentioned this i feel like to both of you at some point but
[01:19:56] ben this needs no one's brought this up since you said it on the record you're saying in the sense and sensibility episode that if a character isn't shown to be lowered into the ground with dirt
[01:20:07] being thrown on their coffin then you don't know if they're dead has changed the way i think about about storytelling just how to tell us right i can't believe that hasn't come up again on the show
[01:20:16] because your complaint if i remember correctly just for listeners is dead but what happens so your first thing is that down his deathbed i think someone's literally like giving him last
[01:20:25] right how do i know he's on his deathbed does the bed say death i believe you use the term he's on his deathbed wait wait wait if the bed said death would that be acceptable like then i
[01:20:36] would know it's a someone just like wrote like death on the bed and you can put it together death plus this thing i love the idea that now every time alex writes a screenplay he has to
[01:20:45] do a ben pass just all to make sure it flies by ben logic ben has alerted me to are important yeah i do feel like in this movie where a lot of characters are kind of just said to have died
[01:20:55] this idea of bends that like what happens to those characters yeah but this is i think a really important bend thing that's never come back up right unless it comes up in some of the other
[01:21:03] no no i mean it's it's a good one to bring up it's a very good one to bring i kind of kept a second i could not follow it i mean the problem is that he is our finest film critic so he throws
[01:21:12] out so many burning hot sort of points like that not even takes but just burning hot truth and takes burning takes but this movie like at this point where the villagers are going crazy
[01:21:22] you feel like this could be really cool yes and there's started these shots of what looks like a kind of scorched earth right which is exciting which the whole thing was shot in like wales or something
[01:21:31] i mean yeah it looks it looks cool it's like a big quarry yeah and there's like a sense of the evil kind of coming out and there's these constant discussions of we can't let this escape kind of
[01:21:42] kind of there's a constant is maybe pushing it there are discussions keeping in mind everything that i'm talking about happens within the last 30 minutes right yeah right right i also wrote
[01:21:51] down when he's in his full form it was kind of like zed from power rangers he definitely looks like lord zed who is a muscle forward person he's like mostly muscle on the outside yeah it's like
[01:22:01] what if muscles were your skit but you talk about like tropes you know what does that take zed i was not allowed to watch power entrances this trial did you see the movie i did i thought
[01:22:09] it rolled ivan news oh i didn't see that movie i saw the the new one oh you saw the new one right we didn't see the classic one with ivan news no was not allowed to see it wow my mom
[01:22:21] you're allowed to see it now was a fucking cop she was sure she's a fucking media cop i'm allowed to see it now i've prioritized other things above mighty more power rangers we have seen turbo obviously i've seen turbo power rangers potential patreon franchise yeah we
[01:22:37] could do the three it's a spicer joint let me give you the three movies he made brian spicer okay it's a hot three yeah mighty more from power rangers the movie 1995 mccail's navy 1997 cool
[01:22:51] for rich or poor also 1997 so we had a two film year that's the uh the kirstie ali is uh tim alan it's like a comedy version of witness in which literally halfway in kirstie ali goes like is
[01:23:04] this just a comedy version of witness like she literally just says it out loud and tim alan's like i guess god what a funny joke is that what he says he's like sure he doesn't go
[01:23:17] and then i guess spicer was done does he just do like tv now has he directed like 17 episodes of i carly he yes here are some yeah i mean yeah his imdb is just magnum pi hawaii 50 castle like all the
[01:23:30] bones bones boy does he rattle them both he did one episode he did one bonus one and out on bones he does one one bones i would like to see the bones boys you know dr bones and and special agent
[01:23:44] mrs bones i don't know anything about well as the doc dead what's her name the emily deschanel she's she's bones but don't call her bones she's always like don't call me bones and then and
[01:23:53] then detective boran is boran is who's like uh he's like a fbi guy or something and he's always like hey bones and she's like don't call me bones all right that sounds great and they work for this
[01:24:03] i know i'm not a one on for 12 years 12 years and they're always dealing with if there's some bones you know it's like i'm right if the cops find like a regular corpse they're like okay let's call
[01:24:13] csi and if they find like a bones corpse they're like we got to get bones in and so in comes bones i feel like bones would be good in the keep you bring them in i agree oh this guy got bones
[01:24:23] i mean this nazi is bones this does feel like a great potential expiles episode yes definitely cool weird frank Lloyd Wright designs i have a point i'm gonna get background to offer that but
[01:24:35] Barry Josephson main producer on the tick was also the main producer on every season of bones really and a lot of times he was like the bones guy and a lot of times when like things are going
[01:24:46] wrong on set he'll like relate experiences on bones and i always have a hard time not laughing and it's like no disrespect like bones hey sure i mean you do bones inherently funny bone bone
[01:24:59] the fact that it's called bunt because i remember this back season four bones we had a real tough time with this bones feels like a joke show in the bowjack horseman yeah mr peanut butter has been
[01:25:08] on i mean look he's laughing all the way to the bank like he bought a house on bones 240 well sounds like he's laughing all the way to the massive lawsuit against the studio excuse me my
[01:25:17] friend he won that lost oh he does with the he just made out like oh he did because for some reason bones was like at the center of all rupper hard economics right claimed that all despite running
[01:25:29] for 11 seasons bones never turned a profit we kept we kept reupping it just thinking like maybe this is losing money so they did this thing where they like sold the syndication rights
[01:25:40] to other companies owned by fox right and sold it for a discount was like we couldn't get a better price so we're losing money on the show right unfortunately hulu really bent us over the barrel
[01:25:50] and they were like you own hulu what are you talking about oh god i'm not with this stupid thing with fx so barry joseph said like filed a lawsuit against uh fox right as disney was
[01:26:02] gobbling them up and like as of two weeks ago one and is now uh i don't know going to buy a country um did you know that it's like the biggest lawsuit like ever in terms of like what if you just
[01:26:14] use that money to self finance indefinite seasons of the tick i god i fucking pray uh no it's one thing there are a lot of these cases where like someone sues to have the studio open the books
[01:26:24] because it was like everyone who had profit participation on that show never made money because they were told that the show was losing money oh so that you mean they so they
[01:26:32] essentially just got a check for 12 seasons worth of profit correct who bones bones did you know that laugh in his way to which i i watched two seasons by the way there's nothing you could say after that
[01:26:44] setup that the answer will not be no i did not know that this is going to blow your mind the like sort of third or fourth most important character angela who's like that i don't know
[01:26:54] she's like the computer like an julia bone or she's a she's a digital bone angela she has this like you know um what do you call it like an iron man style 3d projector thing that she's always
[01:27:05] fiddling with yeah in the second season finale i think it's sometime she's revealed to be the daughter of one of the guitarists from zizi top bones now she's not like it's not like the actress is the daughter character is revealed character is revealed to be the daughter of
[01:27:21] billy gibbons who is playing himself who is not the actress's father and this is revealed as like i never told you but like billy gibbons is my father and then what he like shows up and
[01:27:33] he's like playing your guitar what ripple effect does it have on the show i don't know he just shows up and plays tush and gets out of there yeah he shows up and sings a bar of legs and like
[01:27:45] the actress is played by like a chinese american woman it like it's never explained anyway i just wanted to go you got a lot of bones theory look we can have all the fun last three
[01:27:56] about bones and you have about anything i'm really trying to get you guys yeah the keep your like at a real even pulse and now the bones is being discussed you're going
[01:28:06] crazy over there we can market all we want emily disheveled is about to get a cool 40 million dollar check a lump sum 40 million dollar check i'd love it bones bones all right back to the
[01:28:19] keep uh god alex we hung out recently and we were talking about how especially with like genre films yeah uh supernatural concepts that uh it's it's always kind of fun to apply the
[01:28:38] twilight zone test yes which is is there any reason this story couldn't be told in 30 minutes you watch twilight zone and those stories are so dense there's so much going on right there's real characterization there's like full story art right this is also just an endorsement
[01:28:54] of the twilight right the x files is like that too you go like watch a twilight zone episode and then watch like a film like this and go like is this film taking advantage of being full length sure
[01:29:07] or is it just a spaced out twilight zone episode right and this is like definitely a movie where like there is a 30 minute version of this that is coherence and as i told you it's called the howling
[01:29:19] man yes it is in the season two of the twilight zone that's my favorite twilight zone that's your favorite that's my favorite twilight zone the part of the howling man is that like a guy comes to
[01:29:28] a monastery and he like finds some guy in the basement and the guys like these people have me trapped here let me out this is crazy these people are insane these monks are mad sure
[01:29:37] then he goes up to them and he's like so do you have this guy trapped in your basement should i let him out and they're like no that's the devil and he's like that's not possible
[01:29:46] just because he like doesn't believe in the devil or he's just like there's that's just some guy it's just some guy right and they're like you have no idea what it took to get him here he's
[01:29:53] been here for a really long time don't let him out weird that no one's posted at the door but sure well there's all these monks there right and the whole thing is him like talking to this
[01:30:02] guy about whether or not these monks are crazy or this guy is actually the devil and it's very similar to this i love the idea of something such a good idea it's amazing and
[01:30:11] then the show does it in like 25 minutes and it's perfect and has the best ending and it's just about like trapping evil it's about whether or not you believe in it
[01:30:19] have you guys ever seen uh season of the witch the no the cage no i have never seen that i have seen the vindiesel movie what's that last witch hunter that one right which is based off
[01:30:30] his dungeons and dragons campaign for high school right uh season of which i love it's like uh nikolas cage and ron pearlman as like buddy knights yes i remember adam palli on a
[01:30:40] podcast once who you know your friends are telling a story about how ron pearlman at one point just goes oh fuck yeah he's like did anyone even pretend that this was set in europe there's
[01:30:50] like a big running device in the movie they just decide not to like there's a big running like device in the movie that like anytime one of them saves the other person's life or like
[01:31:00] does a cool move they go like next round of beers on me sure i know beer existed medieval time no one was saying that no one's going hey i'll get the next round there's a lot of like
[01:31:11] anachronistic shit like that but they're essentially like it's kind of like a like a robin hood men in tights yes it rules i think it's super fucking good it's a dominic senna sure and pearlman
[01:31:22] and your swordfish nick cage you must love swordfish i haven't seen swordfish in a while let's go i think we have some joke at some point that i'm african who has making this with it
[01:31:30] we like to make actors audition with yeah we did this on the show that's why i was thinking all right carry on we talked about sorry but now i've griffin now the new thing i like actors who
[01:31:40] audition with is kevin spacies let me be frank oh jeez if you can make that thing saying you can do anything it's like it's like putting like the weight they have to do the accent of course
[01:31:50] how do i know if they're a good actor it's like at the beginning of the speech is like in foghorn like horn voice like is like of course how do i know if they're a good actor i don't want to
[01:31:59] see what you've got i want to see your capacity for mimicry right but also that is literally like the swordfish challenge of giving hu jackman a blowjob and pointing a gun at his head and being
[01:32:08] like hacking in the pentagon right now right like it's like there's so many strictures being placed on this why did swordfish come up before i don't remember weird incredibly important piece of 2000s it's like putting the doughnut weights on the baseball bat right when you're practicing
[01:32:24] so that once you remove them you can like only head homers like if someone can do let me be frank they can they can do anything i was i was so happy that let me be frank turned up in an ad read
[01:32:35] i wasn't when griffin just debuted that excuse me i believe you're mistaken when foghorn leghorn walked into this office a man who has nothing in common with kevin spacie all right what were
[01:32:47] you gonna say about the man and chicken i say i say i say season the witch well there's a rooster i say i say uh bones um in season of the witch nicholas cage ron pearlman are like buddy
[01:32:58] knights the opening is like them going through like different battles like through like the crusades and shit sure just being like next round on me and then you see them drinking beer and then you see
[01:33:07] them in their next battle and it's like next round's on you drinking beer and then they like need a job and so they get a job where they're like look we got this witch she fucking sucks
[01:33:16] can you just transport her it's a midnight run like they essentially it's the midnight run set up where they're like here's a witch in a cage on wheels can you bring her to the temple we need to
[01:33:26] bring her to to kill her and the witch is claire foyer for in a really good performance clear for it's like one of her first movie roles you're just a bunch of boys did she say that uh yes um
[01:33:39] so the movie is them like making it through the swamp and the marsh trying to get to this church and she's trying to convince them the whole way like twilight zone style that she
[01:33:49] isn't a witch and these guys are like being tested constantly of like are we becoming like the the executors of an inhumane sort of witch hunt literally or is is this a witch who's manipulating
[01:34:04] us with her wiles right and the twist at the end of the movie which is one of my favorite twists of all time is that she's the devil oh she is the devil the twist is
[01:34:14] she's not a witch witches don't exist but she does have powers she's the devil and that's why they were confused anything that's like any i mean again this goes back to like so and so is keeping
[01:34:24] something in it's like right anything that plays with this is inherently exciting rules could be done in the twilight zone runtime right this one i mean i'll say this movie gets a lot out of its
[01:34:35] mileage you better be talking about the keep now you can still be talking about season of the witch are still on season they go on a lot of little adventures i like what in season of the
[01:34:42] witch much as i like in the keep much as i like in what was it that's right the howling man much like in bones much like in the howling man in bones it's easy time i always like the idea of like
[01:34:53] you didn't even see all the work we had to put in yeah getting this guy in me too exactly it's like you just see like the edifice we've had to build around him or walk in muck up the whole
[01:35:04] so and that's like the underground realm here is very well designed it is it looks very strange to think about how they got molestar in there and what happened to his other body yeah but somehow
[01:35:15] gaelic is that his name like glacan glacan glacan glacan glacan glacan glacan glacan glacan glacan glacan i don't know how you pronounce it he's like back he just like is back now i think it's just
[01:35:24] he's in love with the daughter and mckellan's like you have to help me kill the nazis and then they're just teaming up right like well it's like glock he says he's here to destroy the beast
[01:35:33] implying that like this is this long back and forth right right and he has they're gonna do this dance forever you and i there's that moment where like and and molestar is saying to mckellan
[01:35:43] like get this you got to pick up this talisman and like bring it out of here bring it to me right like he's he's tasked him with that even though molestar is a body at this point
[01:35:53] he's a body but he can't touch it i think is the idea meanwhile glacan has sex with eva the daughter and they're in love now they're in love now and then they go up to the keep
[01:36:03] and then the nazis like shoot it glacan because mckellan tips them off he's sort of like mckellan is kind of getting corrupted by molestar very corrupted and then he falls down and turns green
[01:36:13] he turns green uh he has like green squibs and green eyes yeah and then he's falling and he's like kind of glowing green yeah and then he's kind of out of the action for a while and now the
[01:36:22] town is like destitute like it's how is a everyone's dead or a runaway or something it's like a reason none of what you've seen which is weird that's all except for robin
[01:36:31] prosky drinking a dodge plug for one minute and then from here on out it's all it's all talisman i'm not i mean well yes i am it's all like talisman business here a lot of a lot of slow
[01:36:43] sad that we stopped at messeism walking to a talisman as it's seen it no i'm sorry there was a time since it opened i wrote the talisman looks like a flashlight it does look
[01:36:52] like a flashlight and then all scott glenn needs to do is sort of push it in to another flashlight yeah to create i guess like you know the ultimate nullifier right to create the
[01:37:02] weapon that will end all you know somewhere in here i wrote like this is when i noticed that like we've seen these sort of demonic supernatural elements and then there's like five minutes of
[01:37:12] just nazis fighting about their chain of command yes yeah there's that whole thing where gabriel burn is like the answer is definitely kill more villagers and urgen proknow is sort of
[01:37:22] trying to be like can't we not be nazis you know he has this sort of like argument of like look jesus like i know we're evil but i know at this point it's like i have like an argument over
[01:37:33] nazism this is like a mangle man thing we're like this kind of relationship of power and authority and corruption is of interest to him sure but the movie has gone so far past this
[01:37:41] right the movie at this point is an elemental battle between good and evil yeah and so this scene in in which ends with uh him dying which yeah that's where you can see this being a three hour movie
[01:37:53] even if it was a shambly assembly because you imagine there's a movie where he gets to explore every one of these things equally perhaps i wrote down here uh do you think playing nazis
[01:38:05] will ever be subjected to pc equality sure like is that you mean like you have to be a nazi to be a pure blood there's so much like you have to be you know like no you have to be but
[01:38:15] like people haven't been given a chance to tell their own stories so don't cast uh scarlett johansson and in uh whatever the rub and i think it's about time we stop we start stopping scarlett
[01:38:27] johansson from playing nazis i think that's hit its expiration like too many the spirit sure mack widow nazi silken floss nazi adjacent do you think this is coming because watching gabriel burn be a nazi and then thinking that mckellen could either be a concentration camp victim or a
[01:38:43] nazi yes well they are well this should be something that no one cares about because there's no one speaking on behalf of people prefer the rule of like nazis can only be played by
[01:38:51] people who definitely can't have been nazis or be related to nazis because when bruno gans played hitler yeah it was like such a story where it was like oh a german guy's playing him like i
[01:39:01] don't know like that seems touchy guy in this movie one of the other guys who i thought looked familiar and then i looked him up and he was detrick in rayters of the lost ark and i
[01:39:10] was like oh this guy was just the go to sort of arian nazi dude in the nineties and the eighties who is that do you remember his name find it right now wow uh yes uh wolf collar right
[01:39:22] wolf right right born in 1940 okay he also played urian drop oven fire fox okay and he played a nazi doctor in shurlock holmes a game of shadow yeah but his like i need to be photo
[01:39:37] is literally just him in nazi uniform yeah that's gonna get you that's his headshot but there is like you know that's like a real adorable kind of character actor in a certain kind of movie at this time is
[01:39:49] just like you know the nazi kind like klaus kinski playing many not 100 do you think anyone will ever speak up and be like gabriel burn is a nazi that's not fair let let that role go to like
[01:39:59] a true blooded area don't like like if you're playing a priest yeah i call gabriel burn but like this is unacceptable you cannot wolf collar is a german born character actor who thanks to his
[01:40:10] height six foot tail and blue eyes was often cast as a nazi or unsympathetic german character in his career like how many nazis of rucker howard play many unsympathetic german characters he also courses does like an oxymoron right he played the fucking german commander in wonder
[01:40:30] woman like this guy's still mostly doing still that's is world war one world war two militant germans right just slap a uniform nazi officer in cockneys versus zombies gabriel burns hair cut
[01:40:42] this movie is also london yes it's also very extreme gabriel burns hair cut is very and his like he's so shallow skinned i don't know gabriel burn feels a little lost in this movie there's
[01:40:53] another movie i just from this era that he's so go Excalibur yes yeah which he's incredible it where but that he's dialed to like a hundred and that one he's sort of playing the rake finds
[01:41:03] in this and he's not the right energy for that type of role yeah it might also just be weird because it's gabriel burn right right he's still around gabriel burn he got lit on fire just recently
[01:41:15] live we got a lid on hereditary oh oh goes up in flames great no gabriel burns fine yeah okay i got worried for a second well i think as far as i know he's doing okay lovely man with
[01:41:25] a kind soul i don't want to marry talon barken was for many years right um yeah i feel like we're pretty much well because when there's this big like and shows up right there's no fight like
[01:41:37] gonna sort of kill explodes seemingly but then he comes back grabs like a pink spear yeah and then they put the talisman in eam account sort of has that late revelation of like oh you're evil
[01:41:48] right like i shouldn't be doing this like you you're bad right he's like hey you shall not pass he very much says that you shall not pass and then apparently there was like some battle they were
[01:42:00] going to film that they like didn't have the money yeah this is interesting and i watched the extended ending on youtube oh there's an extended ending on youtube yeah it's not any of this like special
[01:42:08] effects stuff right by the way for people both of them just grab devices excuse me i'm googling the ending it's like apparently the tv broadcast included some footage that had been used in the trailers
[01:42:20] weird which plays it which by the way like what a fucking time to be alive where that was just like if you watch something on tv you might see this like you might just see like 20 extra minutes
[01:42:29] that someone had for some reason found there's something going on here where like scott glenn is sort of like so basically like through space so the movie like ends with a with a split screen
[01:42:38] right and then basically what this extended ending is it's just like another five minutes okay where she sort of goes from that split screen and then there's like a bit more with
[01:42:48] glacken who sort of has survived and they walk off together in a sort of like tacked on happy ending sort of thing right the wikipedia it's not trapped in the keep with mollusar in this sort of extended
[01:42:59] television ending because of this several new endings had to be filmed long after the crew and original cinematographer had left in production originally man had two ideas for the film's climax one with a battle between glacken and mollusar on top of the keep one taking place inside the
[01:43:13] keep the original climax that man chose involved glacken and mollusar enough epic effects laid in battle on top of the keep tower that ends with glacken opening an energy portal to blast forth
[01:43:23] from the ground of the keep right it was to be a dimensional portal which would have had similar effects to the stargate in 2001 after that glacken would materialize in the cavern below the keep by a pool and be reawakened as a mortal man okay maybe scott glenn with
[01:43:37] the constant production extensions films already well over budget paramount refused to pay for the filming of the additional footage so simplified ending man put together for leased film was a week somewhat unsass and satisfactory compromise the other thing it says here is he had originally
[01:43:52] built mollusar as an animatronic and they spent however fucking much money building the animatronic right and brought it to set and filmed it and then he was like nah i don't like this yeah
[01:44:02] and then they had to start over make it a suit for a performer to wear and then reshoot all that shit uh that sounds bad they shot for 22 weeks i would look at 22 weeks is long right i'm not
[01:44:16] in the biz almost half a year yeah that's a it's a fair amount of time to sink into a movie five months shoot that basically will never be complete yeah and there's you know 90 minutes
[01:44:25] right and grossed uh three million dollars but yeah like you know the endings are sort of like they're all unsatisfying they are um but then the whole town kind of reverts back like all the
[01:44:37] terrible him being blown up is all that town needed i mean it still has the issue that it's under nazi control yes that's going to be most of the nazis have been killed sure maybe they'll
[01:44:46] send some more i kind of like the idea that hitler makes it his number one priority to figure out what's going on in this keep and it's just like throwing nazis at the keep like that would be a
[01:44:55] good sequel i like any return to the keep i basically just like any the mummy style uh you shouldn't have picked up that fucking brick ruin like i'm just always into that i love that in the mummy
[01:45:10] the the steven summers mummy so much of the plot is him needing to get his internal organs back because each american took one jar and he has to like annihilate them one by one like movies need
[01:45:21] more of that they need like villain business before he turns into a big thing i also love the thing in this movie where it's just like scott glenn is awakened and then like every 10 minutes he
[01:45:30] cut to him on like a motorcycle or him at like a diner on the side of the road right they're like where you had and he's like somewhere important like it's just this looming thread of
[01:45:38] like the guy's coming the guy's coming and then he shows up and he's just like power source vaguely scatman crothers in the shining and yes sort of approach right the biker in uh raising
[01:45:48] Arizona where you're just constantly cutting to him getting closer and closer i think one of the deleted things that i read about online was that like he charters that boat from greece and then
[01:45:56] kills the people on the boat and there's a whole like this sequence showing that he's sort of like something bad as well that he's like the other half of mollusar weird fucking movie you never
[01:46:06] really know what mollusar wants as you say he wants to get out killing nazis which is valid home but yeah that's a good point it's not like mollusar says like once i'm out of this keep who boy
[01:46:16] i'm gonna kill so many nazis or he doesn't have like a pitch i'm just finally gonna write my novel well this does happen in the twilight zone episode using my mollus sense of like you know
[01:46:26] if he gets out of here x will happen right right right it is very exciting when they sort of you know i just you know the idea of there being a keep is very exciting well all of these things
[01:46:35] that we're talking about in the sense of looming progression uh objectives that everyone's circling around trying to figure out how to realize and complete sounds like it would be perfectly suited i'm losing my belly speak english it sounds like it would be perfectly suited for a board
[01:46:55] game ah well lowered my glasses he did you're in luck griffin because i found such a board game well what can we play it there's a fucking keep board game like is it kind of like i'm gonna want to
[01:47:09] play the key it's not on ebay but there's a thing i found that i sent about it and like board game geek but it's not you know there isn't one on ebay for five dollars but it seems to be one of those
[01:47:18] 80s board games that's just kind of like squares and pieces yeah there's a maze you move some pieces around you gotta stop the monster it's not like a modern like a modern board game of
[01:47:26] the keep will be very exciting but that would be like an adult like serious it would be like the adult fairy tale of board games yes right there was a board game and there was also a role playing
[01:47:36] game there was a role playing dragon style role playing guys should i buy the keep board game should i buy it for the okay live show and they were 40 bucks oh it is on there a board game geek that's
[01:47:48] where you gotta go they were just pulled his wallet out it is in the board game or the role playing game oh you want me to get the role playing maybe i'll get one you get the other
[01:47:57] what is what has been playing and just found a board game called too many bones okay too many okay do you think that they were really counting on this movie like hitting that they had this
[01:48:07] merchandise i mean this is a really do you think it was just like they took they brought in the merch guy because we're talking this movie's coming out with five years after star wars six
[01:48:14] years yeah so then now there's like a paramount merch guy and they're like here's the script what are you thinking he's like a board game like he's they're sort of like
[01:48:23] you think toys and he's like we can't make Nazi action figures okay all right toys are out toys about molasa it's like no no one wants to figure out the big main demon but you would do you
[01:48:31] think they're like what about molas are and he's like sure what does he look like and they're like Michael man won't tell us so that all right okay then molas are is out and so he's
[01:48:38] like it's like a keep it's like a maze board game like i guess that's nails pace race but it's but it's like this is an r-rated movie right like an r-rated adult 100 yeah it has boobs
[01:48:49] has exposed and like they said we're just like well make a game we'll make a board game um i just placed a bid on the keep role playing all right so you're after the role playing game i just
[01:49:00] read this from the back you guys are going to own the world's majority of keep i just like in the board game there's like character i do like those cards so this is uh compatible with advanced dungeons and dragons you can use this with dungeons and
[01:49:13] dragon with advanced so that's second it says advanced yeah no i'm not as good because i i can play dungeon dragons but i'm not as good at the older editions well okay well let's play the
[01:49:22] keep uh it's produced by a company called role aids which i imagine they probably changed their name a couple years later um but here's what they say the keep is a faithful and detailed
[01:49:35] fantasy role playing adventure based on the major paramount pictures film release of the same name not only will it pit you against the forces of death and evil but also against the might of the german ss
[01:49:46] keep features a new set of rules and charts that let you include modern weaponry and tactics and fantasy adventures designed for three six characters i mean that sounds great the thing is this movie i mean again i really did enjoy this this viewing event sure it sounds
[01:49:59] great on paper and when ono was like so why didn't we like it last time it's just like well i think when you hear that there's this kind of like vaguely lost michael man movie right about
[01:50:08] nazis and this big romanian thing and you want to be a dream master and you watch it and you'd be like well it turns out that everyone was wrong this is one of the best movies of the 80s the
[01:50:17] score is so weird because it's very like melancholy like it's not like a thriller score at all i did a bit of tangerine dream score research and it says that the soundtrack for the keep yeah
[01:50:28] yeah first of all it has like this whole complicated history of never being properly released because i was like looking for these tracks so there's this whole complicated history of the soundtrack of this movie where like it was based on previous tangerine dream music
[01:50:44] so neither paramount nor tangerine dream owned it and it was therefore never released and every version of the keep has had different score in it right like i guess if this print screened it would have a different score than what we saw on streaming and the vhs supposedly
[01:50:57] also has a different score and then they never sold it insane and then like a couple years ago or 10 years ago they sold 150 copies of it just at some concert whoa which is very highly so
[01:51:08] they're just like self-produced they were just like we're finally going to release the score of the keep but then you look at it on wikipedia and it says this is like tangerine dreams 19th score
[01:51:17] and 47th album yeah they have 100 fucking albums they you know like that they just do that every two minutes tangerine dreams is coming to the studio i hope that's the setup for an ad read
[01:51:30] all right there's a a tangerine dream it's a a theremin yeah yeah i saw tangerine dream a few years ago one of the main members that was good it's good go ahead go ahead one of the main members died
[01:51:44] like recently dream but like yes like two or three years before that i saw them at a church on the upper west side which was very fun that's cool oh jesus their past members list is fairly
[01:51:54] long yes everything on every list on their wikipedia is long look how many lineups they've had my god and yet it's always three people maybe four or five people has there like this is their
[01:52:07] lineups graph but it looks like like i don't know like an s and l cast and then that one that's unbroken must be the one that just died until it's at ends like er fro is fro is uh who did
[01:52:20] just die this is like a very you know like what i love about stuff like this and the sort of like claiming this is like you know i feel like it's hard to understand like a michael man filmography
[01:52:29] without the curiosity of curiosities not every director has a great curiosity sure right i feel like a lot do but this is like a curiosity to rule them all here's a very serious question
[01:52:42] he even did the curiosity big right that's the thing like yeah he can't do anything but like as i said of like the frieken curiosities of the guardian and deal of the century like those
[01:52:51] are unwatchable sure right but if you do frieken i'll do both of those okay we'll do it is a double bill yeah no at kim's we had a sealed used copy of deal of the century for the entire time i worked
[01:53:03] there wow wow and no one ever cracked for three years no one ever bought it right malasar would have escaped yes that was actually it they trapped him in a dvd of deal of the century
[01:53:14] one thing that's in which kim's did you work at the one on st marx the real one yeah you're rich you go to the jersey no because there was one in jersey maybe around the time you were living
[01:53:23] there no i wasn't familiar but i went to kim's all the time i rule maybe for records yeah that's why the vinyl was on my floor for a couple years oh where i almost definitely i don't know if we've
[01:53:34] talked to this i almost definitely traded in dvd so i was my i was at you were the buyer i did a lot of buying yeah um if you came during the day how long did you work at kim three years
[01:53:44] almost exactly yeah i almost definitely sold you like season two of seinfeld well so that i could buy whatever season three of seinfeld well season two was on the uh season one and two were a single
[01:53:56] package they were because season one's only four episodes but you remember another thing that we had that sat around forever was like i forget what they were but it was like these dvds it
[01:54:04] was like a fi presents and it would just be like a one hour thing with some filmmaker okay but there's like one of michael man that they were like a toss like yeah it's just like a sort of extended special
[01:54:16] you don't know what he looks like look come on he looks exactly like you'd think he looks yeah he looks like a lawman from the you know 19th century oh you know what i think those are from because
[01:54:25] i'll sometimes see those like outtakes on youtube when a fi would do their like 100 years 100 blank specials they would like pick filmmakers sit them down and be like we have like an hour of
[01:54:37] your time pick like 12 movies you want to talk about from this list so they would like cut in them as talking heads in whichever ones they pick he's like i've seen 40 minutes of spike lee being like
[01:54:47] pass pass like they're reading off to him this is my thing yeah you have to do them all it's the department thing you have to do them all i don't care no because they're not talking about their
[01:54:57] talking about the afi list and they're going like spike lee do you want to talk about the searchers and he's like no next in terms of like the michael man director cut like he
[01:55:05] seems to have said as we alluded to earlier that like this one's not worth it it will be too difficult the materials are too desperate this is exactly what i want to see like the key
[01:55:14] director's cut well it seems like one of those things it almost seems like one of those things that would be done by fans yes like a fan reassembled like the thief in the cobblers
[01:55:23] there's now like some kickstarter or something right that's how it would happen there was a kickstarter to make a documentary about the making of the key i feel like i saw things about that it
[01:55:32] didn't exist it raised a fifth of its uh asked for right that's something the keep is just never gonna be important enough people are rapid the it's just a small but it's very small yeah
[01:55:43] do you remember like the night breed directors cut a couple years ago there was like all the like as it got similar to the metropolis thing as it got more extended the footage got lower quality
[01:55:55] right to the point that like 20 minutes in this thing that was like released and available for sale yeah was off of a vhs with timecode on it oh wow you can't even get the timecode off well that's
[01:56:05] like burned into the only copy of the dailies that clive barker had in his house the manhunter directors cut like shout factory just put manhunter out and the directors cut is like noted additional scenes are in standard definition you know what's very that's very interesting so i don't
[01:56:21] think he ever did like a full proper recut i'll say this about about the idea of a michael man and a sort of tinkerer thinking about like uh you know just like the power of dvd as we all know and love
[01:56:34] love it like directors cut is a very exciting phrase because it makes you feel like there's something different sure but nothing was ever more exciting the phrase alternate ending yes alternate ending is the best one which is usually in a circular sticker or something right like it's
[01:56:48] like yeah the biggest selling point but to say that the keep has multiple possible ending what's the last movie that did that like an alternate end like because i remember like napoleon dynamite came
[01:56:57] back with a new ending you know like where movies would do that occasionally where they'd be like it would be re-released in theaters and like hey come and there's a new avatar was re-released
[01:57:06] but not with a new ending i'm just talking like as a dvd i know what you're talking about but i'm thinking of this gimmick i am legend yes that was for blu-ray but they were like
[01:57:14] we pointedly have a totally different ending because people were so unsatisfied they like finished the effects on the other 28 days later i think this isn't an ending but you know they just re-release the star is born with like new songs they did yeah it's a very old-timey
[01:57:27] gimmick which i weirdly even though i love that movie like had no interest in attending i was like i already did that like i'm very emotional about that but i don't need to
[01:57:36] not a real star head well that's how i feel about Miami Vice too where it was like there's a director's cut i was immediately suspicious i'm like i don't understand how you would improve
[01:57:44] that movie does migo man still hold your faith at this point 100 even though he you know sort of tinkers with and occasionally fouls up his movies i mean people say oh yeah i don't mind that i
[01:57:54] the black hat is better right have you seen the black hat just makes it make sense right it's like you put it back in the original order okay the clock is ticking what does that
[01:58:02] count down to it's been kicking us out of the studio i am i i'm i mean maybe by the time this episode post there'll be more news i'm trying to get the black hat director's cut for you guys okay did you
[01:58:14] know that i was doing this no i told you that okay oh yes yes yes yes yes because we we want to be able to screen the black yeah i'm trying that's our dream for the end i can follow up but i'm
[01:58:24] i'm trying to track it down right yeah from someone at legendary i mean i just black hat and you know is not the person responsible for losing a hundred million dollars on black hat but
[01:58:33] still works there black hats the one where it's like every other man movie you're like look you know it didn't make a ton but like it cost a hundred black hat someone we like oh Jesus it
[01:58:42] made nine did it make nine it like opened in january and i think like january fifth or something right it opened like first week of january i think it it opened in like the heaven heart
[01:58:50] how many slides i was overshooting that's a stunt that's a that's a that's a call to eight it made 8005 980 you know opening weekend was four or five three point nine wow i mean that's that's it's
[01:59:05] wow a movie directed by michael man starting for came out in like recent like while we were doing this podcast or it may be right before we started it yeah but this january yeah released by universal
[01:59:18] i started the court square court street theater with no one in attendance i remember going to see it during whatever that was like the last major snowstorm where people are like you might not
[01:59:26] be able to leave your house for three days right and i was like fuck i want to see black hat before the snowstorm hits and i went to the theater and was like i might get snowed in i might have to
[01:59:36] spend two days in the magic johnson theater and that's a that's a chance i'm willing to take but this is like this really refutes my notion that he's like become like one of the guys
[01:59:46] like it was weird how no one showed up for that i mean that's a bigger bomb than i think any other major director has had in the last decade that's one of the biggest bombs of all
[01:59:54] time it's a huge it's an indefensible because it truly was an over 100 million dollar budget right it's it listed as 70 i think it probably it may have cost more yeah but it also then and then he
[02:00:05] was like a director just cut it airs on fx only one screened it once a band it did a band one time he put on epics no i i recorded it off really fx with ads and i watched it it's the
[02:00:17] only time i've seen the director's cut it moves a crucial event from the end of the movie to the beginning right which at the beginning of the movie uh but there's also it right we'll talk about
[02:00:26] it on the blackhead we'll talk about episodes so it's one thing i did think during this ban obviously the clock's gone off so we only have another hour yeah but um here's okay
[02:00:38] sometimes i like to think of the new clock sometimes i like to think of over time clock it's hit zero now it's going up sometimes i like to think of uh fictional movies sure
[02:00:50] like movies that like oh man that would be great i have one that i think will excite both of you okay perhaps david slightly more so collateral is what 2003 i was gonna say four yeah might be four
[02:01:02] michael man's four mission impossible three oh my god like could you imagine a better movie existing in the world i know that if tom cruise so good he was floated at so if tom cruise was just
[02:01:13] like i want to do what i do yeah like you're my guy now right i loved making collateral you're you're gonna fix mission impossible like can you imagine how good because my friends and i we
[02:01:23] used to always say that the best thing would have been that would be after titanic as a palette cleanser camera and made mission impossible too oh my god and just like totally analog action movie
[02:01:33] and it would be profound yeah but now this is replaced my ideal all my fake movies are mission impossible see what i think wait three was fincher no originally then fincher quit they announced
[02:01:43] carna carna before that it was fincher fincher was developing three they announced it he quit he was like i don't want to be doing franchise shit then i feel like there was a point where
[02:01:53] a couple names got thrown out i feel like i remember man being on that list and then cruise on nark hired carna hand carna hand was two months away from filming he quits had cruise
[02:02:04] seen collateral though that seems like the obvious i well this is around the time he's making collateral i mean it just seemed carna hand was hired after cruise on nark and was like
[02:02:13] what a movie right and that's oh too yes and um i feel like that's when it happened i feel like after carna hand quit at a moment there was like carna hand quits in july 2004 so that's
[02:02:24] right when collateral august right i feel like cruise put him on a list for a moment but here's this is the re no because it's like um 2000 july carna hand quits july 2004 and there's that famous story
[02:02:39] of like cruise saw alias like he like holed up in his house watched it all and called abram's almost immediately yeah like the only reason he wouldn't do this to man is they had just finished a
[02:02:50] movie right and at the collateral premiere i think is when jamey fox buttonholes man and is like we should do miami vise and pitches him on this whole thing with like a license plate
[02:03:01] as the final shot before they cut to credits do you know but we'll talk about this on the miami okay jamey fox had like this hole where he was like here's how we begin like he like
[02:03:08] he's yelling at my and michael man's like sure let's put headphones on michael man it was playing linkin park yeah this will change your life i you know but what's but you're right because
[02:03:16] carna hand is like you know when i list michael man like it's right like it's like if you're going for that energy if that right it's jazzed on i just like i just yeah there's nothing that i think is a
[02:03:26] more tantalizing non-existent movie that yeah no that would roll at that time when like there's really not a lot of special effects and he wouldn't have done them anyway and those movies don't have them right but he's never done anything like that was amazing looking
[02:03:38] at his filmography after watching this is like they're all everyone feels like a passion project yes right which is crazy you can't say that a very many everyone feels like he swindled a studio into giving him money yes right like it's like that he tricked them somehow yes
[02:03:52] somehow and like everyone feels absolutely like the thing he wanted to make at that time even this to some strange extent this is the weirdest one though what are you looking at no i was
[02:04:02] trying to see if i could find any moment where michael man was like rumored for one of the mission possibles but it does feel like i mean now that mission possible has become one director's
[02:04:11] franchise and it's moved away from the like new guy every time it does feel like that's the only way that michael man would get a movie made ever again well it's sort of like how it was part
[02:04:20] of a franchise like that where the actor was like i demand that you hire right like if if hamsworth was like michael man is doing Thor 4 another not opposed i but see that doesn't seem
[02:04:30] like he would he would know i don't like that would be making an adult fairy tale about fascism actually now now you've changed my mind um but no yet another man what was i going to say uh
[02:04:42] yeah it's like world war z2 right like that's how fincher was going to get back in right right but also like michael man's like 76 he's 78 he's old wow and he's just put out a book
[02:04:52] that's why he's on a year promoting his book and then you're like the last time he tried to do tv too many horses died like it's not even like well just go back to tv like he's done tv that's not
[02:05:02] exciting there's nothing like luck where they were like a horse died and people like oh that's sad and then like two days later it's like like three more horses died like it wasn't like one more
[02:05:10] horse sounds weirdly like the plot of the keep yeah it's like these kind of right maybe they but like oh have you seen luck no god it's weird malty malty and hoffen just right like
[02:05:22] there's no plot it's so weird the craziest thing is that they watch like renewed it right they unrenowned started season two they started like six weeks and went like i'm sorry too many horses
[02:05:32] are dying like the bad press was coming out about the horses having died while season one was airing they were like horses be damned we're going ahead and then they started new season five horses died
[02:05:44] in like halfway through the first episode and they were like we're cutting our losses because mercedes ruled there was like a deadline story that was like mercedes rule is starting her comeback she's largely been off the screen and now she's coming back she's the new co-lead of season
[02:06:00] two of luck and then six weeks they were like jkjk all along they were like jk all along all along told you jkjk all along they uh tell me you love me and that one he directed the pilot
[02:06:13] and then was kind of looking over seer wasn't over seer he only directed the pilot me me leader directed an episode terry george like he brought in you know philip noyce directed once you get to
[02:06:23] what i hope you cover like his weird kind of 2000s producing career um yeah well we got to the aviator and my god right he wanted to make it just seems like one of those guys that like
[02:06:34] develops way too much yes and then doesn't end up making half of what he and and he used to be able to do that because so many a list people wanted to work with him that he could set it up
[02:06:44] and they would buy it at the promise of you got brad pit attached the other thing is that all of his premises if you give them as an elevator so happy right now the keep all of his keeping on
[02:06:56] all of his movie premises in the form of an elevator pitch sound commercial especially combined with those actors yes and then he ruins them by making artistic artistic artistic movie but you understand why people kept on giving him a hundred million dollars because they're like
[02:07:11] it's like a gangster movie with johnny depp in 2010 nine that has to work christian bail right that movie has one of the insane casts course that movie is crazy that movie is such a good cast i can't
[02:07:22] wait to see that's the one i've only seen one it's the only one i've only seen a lot of we did our little series when black hat came out we didn't revisit in my famed spreadsheet it is christian
[02:07:30] bale's only nomination what isn't that crazy you don't like bail that much i like him fine that's crazy that's the only time you have to make the five leaning that microphone like he's tom
[02:07:40] john it's tough to make the five to make those five david do me a favor and eat a bowl of farts tough to make the five tough to make the sims five oh my god he is so proud as he says that to me poor
[02:07:51] bed looks like he was gonna say that was about to what were you gonna say ben uh i want to sort of on the record okay say why i think this one's coming out in may yeah i think that man
[02:08:03] may the fourth be with uh i don't because i don't know enough about if he has like he's had hits but we're talking about his flops and i'll just say i feel like his pseudo
[02:08:14] intellectualism is like this thing where it's like it's not for smart people but don't people don't really like it that's the best way i could explain that's very apt he's you know these are smart movies these are not they all have they're also kind of about little boy
[02:08:30] subjects like they're about like like cowboys and indians and like cops and robbers i mean collateral is are like kind of rough around the edges right the pitch of collateral is something a child would
[02:08:41] come up with right like what if a cab driver like you know like you know that is a that's a great pitch but it is a kid right kid pitch kid that's a new idea is there a blender in the keep
[02:08:51] no there's i mean there's nothing nearly is there any blend any blenders you've discovered recently that you felt were particularly no i feel like you should keep a look out for them
[02:08:58] he's too smart for stuff like that man is not really something that like yeah you're not going to find a lot of blenders you're not going to find a lot of like super hammy performances in these
[02:09:08] not going to find any you're not going to find any jokes in any of these movies well there will be jokes but they'll be delivered with utter serious yeah like there's a few jokes in collateral
[02:09:17] but i think you might go like it was kind of funny ten movies without like any humor miami vice has that like weird monologue where like jayme fox is like talking about how like if people stand still their skyscrapers like that whole thing which is like delivered
[02:09:31] seriously but is a joke yeah he's not a humorous guy no something that but to ben's point this is like what i love about his movies like they're not like if i were to say this is a phrase we
[02:09:42] use at home a lot a pizza movie do you know what that is you mean like a movie you watch while you're eating pizza yeah like a movie that i know exactly you can instantly picture it in the
[02:09:50] car on top of a box of pizza in a video box coming home from the store right and like this is like a 20 year genre yeah that like sometimes the client is a pizza well any
[02:10:01] gresham any cruise any gear any harris and ford right and like yes yeah like presumed innocent which i just watched classic pizza if they're in a courtroom that's a pizza movie but like
[02:10:11] he's the first pizza movie because they eat pizza in it and like it just it's a movie that placement for pizza it's a movie that was like is there a movie where anyone eats pizza before
[02:10:18] et well yes but maybe not not a movie that is so perfectly paired with the rise of vhs sure and the idea that this movie was probably watched in the presence of pizza more often than it was not
[02:10:30] and michael man does not make pizza movies he doesn't make like a kind of you know like saturday night let's grab like a fun legal thriller no they're challenging films they're long you have to pay attention to everything that's happening you can't look away yeah like they're
[02:10:43] really serious movies but they're super low brow movies which is like a very classic kind of 40s 50s style of filmmaking that no one cares about at all anymore so alex you said at the
[02:10:55] beginning of this episode that you want to get a project on the blank check picture slate yes obviously our door is always open for you if you want to pitch us anything come to us first
[02:11:03] ben looks engaged now for the first time in an hour if you want a first look deal we'll sign you racking an egg into a boat we're willing to make an overall deal sure you can prop your
[02:11:11] shingle up here right right uh we'll get you a bungalow so are we gonna have shingles within shingles shingles within shingles um the keep is kind of shingles within shingles yes
[02:11:20] hey now thank you so i'm looking at this is you know a little bit out of date but of course the famous blank check picture keynote address kevin feige style that was very real and not photoshopped
[02:11:30] by hat reynolds and here are some of the projects i forgot we have on the docket uh the buzzed of course yeah i feel like that comes up a lot still no director attached uh gadget the
[02:11:40] gadget reboot that david that's my pitch right which i play in specter gadget i feel like i could do that and i feel like there's a window on griffin being able to play in specter gadget like it's not
[02:11:49] forever that it's not forever it needs to be a sprightly guy yes yeah all of us french stewart french stewart was a pretty good gadget i mean i've talked about that but in specter
[02:11:58] gadget two is far more accurate to the car town and that's better i'm gonna tell you exactly i need to know now inspected here's another one doesn't three he was 39 so griffin's got
[02:12:08] a long time yeah griffin you still got a few years well but i'm 30 going on 45 i'm gonna skip all those middle years i'm like the keep i'm like slowly materializing into an old man um uh here's another
[02:12:20] one on the slate henry darger's rems of the unreal now the problem is memory for you ben has sort of this has been his big passion project he's been producing it everyone thinks eventually ben's
[02:12:31] gonna take over and direct it he's gonna make it his direct i feel like that's that's the buzz right right right uh buzz i think he would rather get like you know a real sort of craftsman
[02:12:41] because that's a commercial ban is sort of the eric roth of the bank pictures right but realms of the unreal he might not be able to let go of course you got easy writer the ester zuckerman story
[02:12:51] course serace deal attached yeah ester recently saw sarah walking out of the metrograph and i was like you gotta you know you gotta sign her up she's attached as far as i'm concerned and
[02:13:00] then the other project listed here uh midnight run forbidden origin which of course has now been retitled midnight run 2049 uh okay i didn't realize we were we're we've been courting paul thomas
[02:13:11] anderson for that one but how's that going you know court court is in session he's a patreon subscriber he's a patreon subscribe yeah he's a check that'd be funny yeah he's a hazhog but
[02:13:23] he's a ha he's only a he's only a he's like i'm only in it for haz i'm in it for haz um do any of those jump out to you or do you have any other projects i want to catch a gadget
[02:13:32] for now okay i'll think of something yeah gadgets in your wheelhouse because i feel like you like that ip yeah exactly the sort of distressed ip yeah it's just stressed it's distressed all right yeah i got a
[02:13:42] pitch great new one because i'm currently i'm working on my screenplay for night eggs yeah which is very exciting which uh christ wights is attached to direct no he's texture produced he hasn't confirmed well he's been eyeing the director's chair he's definitely still listening
[02:13:55] at hour three of the keep podcast as far as i know from wights he's all it weirdly all but i had this new concept what if uh you make a podcast movie no one's done it
[02:14:10] podcast there are podcasters in the new halloween yes which is the best thing about is that the podcasters are savagely murdered very early into halloween do sort of like um like ponte pool but with podcasts called potty make it a potty pool potty pool what would make
[02:14:26] like occupation movie right like those that's like such a straightforward kind of like working girl at a podcast network like the oh ben is tilting his head like that's an interesting love the tv show didn't have some podcast content in it she's definitely like a radio
[02:14:41] one of my favorite ways that you guys describe movies when they come up in box office game is like it's a movie where this guy has this job right so that's the pits so this would just be
[02:14:50] like you know that like uh which is a real pizza movie sort of overlap totally but it would just be like michael keaton was a house painter yeah like what if this guy just works in a like what
[02:15:00] if he's just the podcaster um podcaster we should put that on the slate you mean like an air you mean like an airheads of podcasting where like a studio gets taken hostage but it's not
[02:15:09] live so no one can really get the word what if it's like it's it's the like it's a mad mad mad world of podcasting we're instead of it being like all the great comedy stars of our time it's
[02:15:18] all it's like seracaning yeah you guys us that's it rogan rogan fucking who's on the charts right now maren obviously he has to walk the gates we're all trying to find richard simons right yeah we're
[02:15:35] we're not trying to find money buried under the tree odd non he's there odd jay nisha it's mostly just serial hey listen i have sat at three o'clock in the morning on a wednesday many nights listening to snooki oh snooki's part of the movie talking about some
[02:15:55] inane shit yeah and i'm just like this is absurd what is my life and i gotta wake up and then talk about the keep with these two idiots barbara barbara oh i think there's something
[02:16:07] not including me in one of the idiot cows right we're not talking about the team yeah um like to keep us fun to talk about when you put it that way it sounds like you have a pretty charmed life
[02:16:16] and do do do do do do do to send me charmed life i know i picked up on that okay he's been wanting something else do with his office for the keeper is this yes there is my friend
[02:16:29] And every day, this is definitely one of those times where the discussion of the movies chronology ended. But there's always other things to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. But no, we actually should play the box.
[02:16:38] I know it would excite you guys too much to mention the phrase Michael Man's Mission Impossible. Think of other things like this. Think of other like fake things that if they were real would be sublime. Right. I it's going to be tough to top what's going on.
[02:16:52] Remake House of Leaves. But make it that a podcast that a blind man recorded is discovered. Ben sticking his tongue out like he just shattered the glass backboard. Tongue is still out. He's doing like a Nicky on. How do you like me now? Raising his arms.
[02:17:14] And it's not doing full to near a face. I think you guys have learned that when you're taking a bow, when you crack like a certain runtime, the way to stop Ben from wanting to end things is just ask him what he's thinking. Exactly.
[02:17:26] Like let him off the leash. Ben, what do you want out of this? I mean, it's been half an hour since the I know I gave up. OK, so what's the talk box office? OK. OK. The keep came out.
[02:17:39] Terrible time to come out by the way December 16th. What was the final domestic total for point one to four point is crazy that 30 years apart, unadjusted. It's still only made a little less than black hat. Right, because adjusted for inflation, it handily operate. He made 12 million dollars.
[02:18:01] Yeah. Great job, the keep. Yeah. It came out. That made eight. Eight. It made eight. It got to eight. That's insane. Which of course. Crawled to eight. You know much of black hat, you know, one thing.
[02:18:16] Black hat has Chinese characters in it and is obviously trying to make an international play that it failed to make. Yeah. Eight, you know, very important number in Chinese numerals. So maybe they just stopped it there. Not to keep going on tangents, but are there any other major
[02:18:30] filmmaker releases that do not even hit double digits? That is something I will research because I feel like that's a great question. Did silence hit double digits? Yes, like in like the but not 20. Right. No, no. Silence made seven domestic. Wow.
[02:18:46] So silence is it because silence is the one that sprung to mind where I was like, wow, because when you were talking to me about how Scorsese, I'm like, you don't realize how much silence frightened Paramount. Silence. Right. That might have been, I forgot about sounds.
[02:18:57] It wasn't like him running his track book. That was the last check he had. Right. It was like 40, right? Yeah. Something like that. Right. But it was the movie he tried to make for 30 years. He finally got them right at the check after Wolf of Wall Street.
[02:19:07] And then they were like, see, no movie that's really long and sadly made no money. Yeah. And he was like, oh yeah, geez, I guess it did. Huh? Well, all right. Anyway, God can't. I'm going higher. But she had pain tolerance movie.
[02:19:20] Imagine a bullet is the eye in various names as it comes to work. Sometimes it's an O. All right. 1980 December 16th 1983. Okay. Number one of the box office. $10 million in its second week is the fourth in a franchise. Very unusual in the 80s.
[02:19:40] Give me give me the year again. 1983. Is it Star Trek for? No. Is it a horror franchise? No. Is it Superman for? No. I'm having fun with it. Is it a police academy? No, but the first word is good. Police. First word is good. It's a police movie.
[02:19:57] It's a police movie and there are four of them. There's four of them. Like, I don't know how this is number four. This is the fourth. Wait, is police in the title or is it a cop movie? It's a cop movie. It's a dirty hairy.
[02:20:07] It's a dirty hairy. But which is it? The enforcer? No. A Deadpool? No. That's the fifth. The enforcer's third Deadpool is fifth. So what's the one in between the one in this one? What's the one that we're missing? It's the one directed by Clint Eastwood.
[02:20:22] As far as I know, the only one that he directed. Ben. That's not helpful with Ben. Is punching himself in the face and then acting surprised? This is the one where he says go ahead, make my day. Which everyone assumes is in the first one. Sudden impact? Correct.
[02:20:37] Helpful? No it wasn't. I didn't get it because of that. I just went through the database. The movie Ben was trying to tease his face punch. He was punching himself in the face and looking surprised that it had been. It's on an impact.
[02:20:49] You'll do dirty hairy on Patreon, right? Let's do it. One of them is so nakedly sexist that it would probably be a very fun. And the last one is the one with Jim Carrey as a rock star, right? Yeah, and Deadpool's in it. Yeah, right.
[02:21:03] He knows he's in it. He knows he's in it. Right. So sudden impact. Come on, that's a good first movie in the box office game. Come on, guys. What number is the key? Excited. The keep is number 14. Okay. Right. Didn't open strong. Sudden impact which grows 67. Wow.
[02:21:21] Which adjusted is 187. You know, huge, huge. Big franchise. Big franchise. Number two is a movie we've discussed on this podcast. On this podcast it has been covered and the year... It's 1983. It's 83. And its final total is 108. Its final total is one.
[02:21:40] It's only four weeks into release and it's made 21. It's only four weeks into release and it's 21. So it's not a Cameron. No. It is not a Shyamalan. No, Shyamalan. Brooks. He was like a child. It is a Brooks. It is a Brooks in terms of endearment?
[02:21:57] In terms of endearment. Oh wow. Fingers broadcast news 85. 87. 87. Yep. In terms of endearment. In terms of endearment. Massive hit. You've been keep adjacent before. We have. What a time to be alive. So happy to have been born at this time.
[02:22:11] In terms of endearment, the second highest grossing film of its year, behind Return of the Jedi. I believe that's correct. Yes. Just ahead of the keep. Just... Just a... Just click ahead. Just click ahead. That's right. Yeah, the only other movie in 83 to cross 100. Wow.
[02:22:25] Number three is a movie I've never heard of. Oh, I have heard of this. Okay. So this is one of those things where it's like, you know that movie with those famous people in it?
[02:22:36] They're in another movie together that doesn't have anything to do with the first movie, but they're in a movie together. Interesting. It's the... They're together again. Yeah. It's kind of a runaway bride situation, but less famous. Is it Chevy Chase and Goldie Hawn? No. Interesting.
[02:22:51] Wasn't the follow-up to Foul Play? Okay. Let me see. How iconic are these two people? How much earlier was the first movie? Seven years earlier. 76 I think the first movie. Is it a man and a woman? A man and a woman. Is this the main event?
[02:23:06] It's not the main event. What is that? It's a boxing comedy with Ryan O'Neill and Barbara Streisand. Oh, right. Yeah. God, no. After What's Up Doc? Yeah. It's the... What can I clue you in about this? How iconic is the first time they were together? Insanely.
[02:23:25] Insanely I guess. This movie I've never heard of, but... But the first one is like huge. Yeah. 75. 76 I think. 76. And they really, they really popped together. No, no I'm sorry. The first one is 78. I had that wrong. I'm sorry. So it's five years later. They really popped.
[02:23:46] I'll tell you that Charles Durning, Scatman Crothers, Beatrice Strait and Castulo Guerrero are prominent supporting players. That's like one of the hottest supporting cast you could have gotten in 1983. Those names just spell box off. This movie has a religious component and those four play angels.
[02:24:10] I'm going to keep telling you things because I'm sure you don't know what this movie is and as I explain it, it just sounds crazier. Charles Durning is like one of my five favorite actors. Eventually just saving the first movie. Durning down the house. Durning down the house.
[02:24:20] I'll say the first movie eventually, right? And even then you probably won't know it. This is very exciting. It's about... I love this era of box office by the way. This is my favorite now. This is why I'm always... This is, I mean this is why I think
[02:24:30] like this is the premote box office because there are just so many mysteries in here. And you have no firsthand memory of any of it. So the premise of this movie is that four angels have been in charge of heaven for 25 years. My God, and they're Durning... Durning...
[02:24:45] ...straights... ...crothers. ...crothers. And some guy, Castillo Guerrero. He's the one I don't know. But they've been in charge of heaven for 25 years. They're playing golf and then God, voiced by Gene Hackman. What? Sounds like David's having a stroke. Yeah. Interrupts. Being like...
[02:25:04] I thought I was getting marble mouth business. I've been in... I have been out of the office for 25 years. Earth seems bad. I will flood it again. So Hackman comes in as God and is like, you guys have not been doing a good job of Earth.
[02:25:17] Do you know this or are you reading this? I'm reading this. I've never heard of this movie. Okay. I just read this and that because I was first just going off the stars but then I read the plot and I was like, whoa, hang on a second.
[02:25:25] So you haven't even gotten to the two big stars yet? No, exactly. Okay. Exactly. God's like, I'm flooding Earth. You guys have fucked it up. Did this open this week? Or is this like... Hang on. Let's find out. Yes, it opened this week.
[02:25:36] It's the big opening this week. Okay. Seven years. And the angels are like, wait a second, don't flood Earth. What if we find a guy who's no good and we can persuade him to reform and be a good guy?
[02:25:50] Will that prove to you that mankind is worth not being destroyed? How is this movie not remade in the late 90s? Yeah. Right. And so they select a guy, the lead actor, who's going to rob a bank and he points his gun at the bank teller,
[02:26:05] who's the lady, and then like the moral sort of play begins. What the fuck? 78. What wins Best Picture in 78? What wins Best Picture in 78? Let's find out. Because I'm not going to guess this movie. Ben's not talking about his ideas anymore. He's looking for what he wants.
[02:26:26] I'm next going to give you... This is one of the great box office games of all time. Unbelievable. I'm next going to give you the movie. The winner in 1978 is The Deer Hunter. The movie... This movie stars DeNiro on Merrill Street as well.
[02:26:43] The movie this is drafting off of and it was nominated for Five Razzie's. Stars Christopher Walken and a Gun. Five Razzies. It's the long overdue redeeming of the iconic duo Christopher Walken and a pistol. It's weird. Ben looks like he's reaching...
[02:26:56] I just found out more information about this movie. Okay, Five Razzie nomination. This one that you're talking about now. This one that we're talking about right now. Yes. It had a platinum selling soundtrack with three hit singles for the female lead.
[02:27:09] One of which was a song written by Journey that they passed off to her because they were like, forget it. Is the movie a musical or did she just sing on the soundtrack? That. Okay. So is she known as a singer? Yes. Is it Streisand? No.
[02:27:26] Is it Cher? No. It's someone you'd never remember and then you'd be like, oh right. That person was a huge deal. The person was a huge... Is it Olivia Newton? Olivia Newton John. And John Travolta? And John Travolta. And the movie is?
[02:27:40] And the movie is called, it's directed by John Hertzfeld who went on to make like two days in the valley in 15 minutes. Moment by moment is the Lily Tomlin John Travolta one, right? Yep. And the perfect is John Travolta. Here I'll give you another clue for the title.
[02:27:54] The title is also used for a sitcom that I used to watch that ran for one season. The single guy. No. Secret diary Desmond Fyke. Andy Richter controls the universe. Homeboys and Outer Space. Shasta McNess. I mean, come on. I like that I'm joining in.
[02:28:12] You're tea in a sob. We have so many more UPN shows at the ready. David's ticking guesses. No, like it's a very anonymous title. Flatopless Man. It has nothing to do with the premise. Richard Jennings Flatopless Man.
[02:28:26] It took a twist of fate to make them blank the title. Fall in love? I mean, that would be a weird title for a movie. Yeah, but that's kind of the sentiment. Can I give you the title? Please. Can we give up?
[02:28:39] Yeah, we're not, we don't know this movie. Two of a kind. I didn't know that title. I love it when you two dudes out, you do know it. There they are. They're two of a kind. That's why I was going like moment by moment.
[02:28:51] You see this poster, you don't think like, oh yeah, that's about like four angels arguing with Gene Hackman as God over the fate of you. Wow. The fuck is it? What a great, that was one of the greatest things that's ever happened on this podcast. All right.
[02:29:07] Don't worry about me. We only have two more movies to guess. Number four is a De Palma movie. 80, I'm blanking on what you're wearing all of a sudden. 83. I've got three hours of sleep. Oh, this is embarrassing. Scarface is 80. Body doubles 80. No, it's Scarface. Scarface is 83. What's 80?
[02:29:26] I don't know. A blowout. I don't remember. Yeah, blowout is like a 79 or 80. Yeah. Only macro. Only macro. Blowout's 81, Dress to Kill is 80. Number five is a film that I have heard of, but I need to look up what it is. All right.
[02:29:42] It stars, oh fuck, I think we've talked about this movie before. Jesus, when would we have talked about it? It stars Gene Hackman. Okay. As the voice of God. It's an action movie. It's called Three of a Kind.
[02:29:56] It's like a marine trying to rescue a son from the Vietnam War. It's like an action movie from the 80s that I don't really know, but I know. Like anyone who was alive in 1983 probably saw this movie. Is it called Sudden Impact? No.
[02:30:16] Does it have a title without limits? Kind of, yeah. It has a title that means a thing. No exceptions. No reservations. Extreme measures. Diplomatic immunity. What else can I tell you about this movie? It was Patrick Swayze's in it. Swayze? Tex Cobb is in it. Tex Cobb?
[02:30:34] Fred Ward. Ward? God, I'm sweating. Oh my god. Jane Keck's Emerick. Jane Keck's Emerick, however you say her name. Yeah. Heck. I don't know. It's got like a real like military term or word in the title. Dishonorably discharged. Not that far away. I'm close. Yeah. With honors. Again.
[02:30:59] What's another word for honor? Right. On the battlefield. Or bravery. What's another word for bravery? Courage. Keep going. It's more or more, a little more ornate than that. He had like. Valor. Is it just called Valor? The second word of the title. Stolen Valor? No. Uncommon Valor.
[02:31:18] Oh, I do know that. Common Valor. Yes. We have talked about this movie in an episode. Blankies tell me which because I don't remember which. I don't know. Do your work. So this was, what else is in the box office? That's six through 10.
[02:31:28] We got a re-release of The Rescuers. The Mouse movie. Priming the pump for Down Under. That's right. We've got Yental. Poppick and the Airman. Who doesn't love Yental? What a time to be alive. We've got John Carpenter's Christine. And has taken off his headphones.
[02:31:42] He is walking out of the studio to pee. Okay. Christine, which we're probably going to have to discuss on this podcast. I'm just assuming Carpenter's winning. Looks like the Hoss Hogs have assembled. Silkwood came out this week. What a time to be alive.
[02:31:55] Warke Park came out this week. The remake of To Be or Not To Be came out this week. The man who loved women came out this week. So, Derny is blowing up the box office right now. I've got two films in the top 10.
[02:32:05] Remember when they just didn't care when movies got released? I don't know. They'll make money at some point. What the notion of releasing all these movies two weeks before Christmas made perfect sense? It's the thing we're only like right now.
[02:32:16] Now if you looked at a Christmas box office, it would all be family movies, superhero movies and Oscar movies. This is just a bunch of shit. Wait a minute. Is Silkwood also Paramount? Silkwood is Fox. Fox. As Paramount wasn't like, we've got this great catastrophe movie. Yeah.
[02:32:29] And this great Nazi Jewish horror film. Yeah, the uncommon valor is a Paramount. I'll tell you how much as his terms of endearment. Paramount's feeling fine. They used to make so many movies and they would just release him because they were just released them when they were finished.
[02:32:44] Right. Right. It's like, it's done. Okay. Put it up. Call my guy at the theater. Time to make the donuts. Roll them out and you sell them until you're done and you close up shop. Yeah. Yeah, you could release like eight valor movies in a weekend probably.
[02:32:57] But this is just like, it's just, I mean the box office speaks to like just how bananas and diverse this whole time period is allowed to be. Mainstream filmmaking needs to be. And this is why I don't understand people say the 80s are not a great decade.
[02:33:10] It's such a diversity of options. Yeah. The next week there's no new movies the next week. That's the other thing. The next week there's no new movies. There's no new movies. Don't release one. Who needs one? It's only December 20th. Don't release any movies. Yeah.
[02:33:24] Christmas time, no one goes to the movies. That is actually why a new movie is not released until January 1984 when hotdog the movie comes out. That's insane. And January 25th is like the most coveted of release dates now. 100%. Right. I'm trying. January 25th. Sorry, December 25th.
[02:33:42] January 25th, the second most coveted release date. That's that black hat slot. Yeah. That's that classic season of the witch slot. I'm trying to find like the movie that we saw to discuss on Common Valor, but I can't.
[02:33:54] Because it had already, it must have been Terms of Endearment, right? Yeah. Is that possible? Yeah, maybe in this Terms of Endearment. Must have been that. I'm tying myself to not to. Don't bother yourself, David. It must have been that.
[02:34:05] I feel like we could be ending right now except Ben's not here. That's the problem. We literally don't know how to end the show. We lack the, okay, Ben's re-enter. Oh thank God he's back. Ben, I was just saying we could have ended but you would laugh.
[02:34:17] But unfortunately when you were gone we started a new conversational loop. Oh, how? What was it? But Ben, I have a request because obviously we've pushed this pretty far because we're having fun. Can you make this episode one minute longer than the Taking What Stock episode?
[02:34:31] How long is that? I think we actually are right around there right now. Because I don't know how long these ads will be but like. Oh yeah, no actually, you know what? The ads are going to be fed over. So you know what? Let's end it now.
[02:34:42] Yeah, because here, taking What Stock running time, let's find out. I'm loading the episode right now, 234. We are at 237. Oh wow, okay. So we did it. We're at 237 now? Correct. So I feel like people don't know this but there was at one point in this episode
[02:34:58] a 10 minute conversation about bones which Ben cut out. Alex, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me back. You did it. So it's fair. I honestly didn't know what you were going to do with the Keep but you did it. It's worth talking about.
[02:35:12] No, of course it is. It is. Yeah. If this movie were made by a lesser filmmaker, it would be one of the most irrelevant movies of all time. And because it's made by a major filmmaker, it's very compelling. That is actually true. And in between.
[02:35:22] If someone else had made this movie, you would have been like that movie is just nothing. It's like an ornament film where they ran out of budget. Right. And it was directed by like John Smithson. But we're a little qualified cast. Top here. Yeah, it's true.
[02:35:35] It's just sandwiched in between. Like he knocks it out of the gate and then comes back swinging after this. Knocked out of the keep. Yeah, I was just trying to sell those board games. Her smell. I can't believe I ordered the board games. See theaters if you can.
[02:35:45] It feels like something I did in a night care. I have to wait three days to find out if I win the role playing game book. But I... Yeah, her smell is probably still out somewhere. And Google for Snowman. Well, you asked that question about like major directors.
[02:36:00] Oh, he got to eight. Because I just remember that movie being bad. Yeah. So this is more stuff I could cut out. Sure. Leave it. Cut it all out and then put it behind the paywall. Snowman got to six. Wow. Snowman's a six.
[02:36:13] And not a particularly major director. No, no. No, that's middle. Someone people thought was... Could be. Right. Check out her smell in theaters if it's still there, if not on digital. Somewhere. It's out there somewhere. I bought it on iTunes for no money.
[02:36:28] Have you gotten any Christopher Robin residuals? No, I think those come a year and a quarter after the release of the movie. Interesting. Because I'll say I feel like it's been blowing up airplanes recently. More people have told me they've seen it on planes than...
[02:36:41] Seen it in theaters. Pretty sure that my girlfriend rewatched it on a plane. I've already watched it on a plane. I've sat next to multiple people, strangers on planes watching it. Sure. I feel like it comes up often on the show. Love Christopher.
[02:36:52] I mean that's where the draft day millions came from, from airplane viewing, because the movie lost money and then I started getting crazy residual checks. It's all planes. Right. And it said like JetBlue or whatever. Yeah, Delta. I'll let you know about that. C24B.
[02:37:03] It might be different for actors. I don't know. I don't know. We'll find out. Look, it's a hanging narrative thread to be resolved. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Go to blankcheck.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit.
[02:37:19] Oh, I just had another thought. What? Let me just think of something else to just tack on. Okay. Don't keep going. Do you know what? Now you're being nasty. And I'm gonna say it. Now you're being nasty and that's uncalled for.
[02:37:33] And I'm gonna be nice and I'm gonna say thanks to Andrew Agudo for social media. You gotta say thanks to Pat Reynolds and Joe Bono for artwork. Thanks to Lane Montgomery for our theme song. Go to Patreon. There's a new vaporwave artist I just discovered.
[02:37:46] Could I do you mind if I just... Go to Patreon for the stuff we cut out of this episode. Sure, right. Yeah, exactly. If you want to piece together the keep style fractured narrative of this episode, which Ben has cut down to 15 minutes. We should actually do that.
[02:38:02] We should do that. I think that's a good bit. What if this is our shortest episode ever? I love that. It's shorter than the Attack on the Clones politics episode. No, that would...
[02:38:11] If you were gonna do that now, Ben, it would take more work from you to make it shorter. Exactly. And we're not backing down on this and that's what Ben has to do. Oh boy. I look for that Connery, the movies.
[02:38:24] Yeah, the movie shirt available now on T-POP. I certainly hope. I'll be the one drinking out of that mug or using that tote bag or something like that. Did I show you my new phone case? Oh, it's a No Bits case. It's a nice purple No Bits case.
[02:38:35] Well soon I'll be getting myself a D'Muvis phone case and we'll all be living in a better world. Thank you for listening and as always, Ben, please edit this down to be our shortest episode ever.