The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness

[00:00:00] The notion that one's goal in life is to be happy, that your own happiness is the goal. I just don't podcast. So many- he's just dropping pearls throughout. There should probably be bylaw a documentary crew following him at all times. Just to catch any pearls.

[00:00:40] Yeah, I cued up the movie on my iPad because there are a couple things I want to read straight from there. Yeah, you should. This thing is devastating. It's incredible! Here's a question that struck me while watching this last night. Yeah.

[00:00:55] Is Miyazaki the director we've covered who would hate this podcast the most? I'm just sort of going through to triple check that absolutely, of course you're right. I mean there's no even- I mean man- I don't think man would be too impressed.

[00:01:11] But he was nice to the one heat minute boys. He was. So he's clearly some appreciation for, you know, the new world of podcasting. That is true. I feel like George Lucas wouldn't like hearing the Star Wars episodes.

[00:01:25] No, but I think he might appreciate that we're trying to grapple with his prequel characters and works at least, you know, somewhat sincerely. I don't think so. Probably not. I think he would say they're kitchen movies, you're not supposed to take more serious things.

[00:01:39] I think he would love- I don't know why he was on the show. Oh you're right, he was on the show. And he didn't like it. Yeah. He was on it twice, two time guest. I think for Hoven would be tickled. Oh most certainly.

[00:01:50] I think, yeah, I think, yeah, no there's no question. Shyamalan I think would love it. I think it'd be an emotional roller coaster for him as most things seem to be, right? He seems he's, he lives on the surface. His feelings are on the surface.

[00:02:03] So he'd really, he'd be with us in the praise and he'd really be devastated by the criticism, right? He's sort of a roller coaster guy.

[00:02:10] I feel like we can say this now that's been almost a year, but we were like in the preliminary stages of getting to sit down to talk with him. One day. But, but I can say this. I know.

[00:02:21] Last this year we had like a two month long like email back and forth. Yeah. That we thought it was looking like there was a good chance. At least they didn't just ignore us. They were talking to us. It was a concept. It was a concept.

[00:02:36] They were intrigued by the concept. It was a concept. But he's going to make more movies. I believe he just signed, didn't he just sign a deal to make at least two, right? Really? And yeah, he's got an Apple show which those seem infallible. Apple TV plus.

[00:02:54] He signed a new deal, yes with Universal Pictures, which is a well known movie studio. Yes. He signed a deal with Universal Pictures to mortgage his house two more times. Right. Is it just a distribution deal? Just movies to come out, Feb 2021 and Feb 2023. Nice.

[00:03:13] I do think it's, I do think the structure is as it was for his recent. He's got a bet the farm. No, yes, yes, yes. He will finance his two movies the same way. Fucking rad.

[00:03:29] Yeah, I mean, I think every other director we've covered on the show might get a little sensitive at certain parts. Certainly. But would generally not be as philosophically opposed to this endeavor as Miyazaki. Sure.

[00:03:45] It's such a weird thing like an hour into this movie when he makes a joke. Well, his version of a joke usually is that he says something sort of like cruel or devastating and then he sort of like chuckles.

[00:03:57] That's why there's like an hour in he makes like a pure joke. Yeah, I'm trying to remember what it was, but it was something about like, like, oh, you're going to throw your back out. Right, right, right. Like it was like a dad joke. Right.

[00:04:09] It wasn't like him like dropping the most like when like edge Lord comedians say like, look, I'm just telling the truth. I'm just telling the truth. Miyazaki is actually that Miyazaki is like actually the one person telling the truth, right?

[00:04:24] Look, we're here to discuss The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness. Of course, as one does by mommy sonata mommy sonata about the production process of the wind rises. We're closing the book on how it's moving podcast. It's been a while since we've talked Miyazaki.

[00:04:41] So you had to remember this many series name or like 50% through Demi. We took a step back into Miyazaki, which turns out it was to our benefit that we waited because he right. Yeah, the landscape's fucking changed and we're going to get landscape. New landscape.

[00:04:55] I mean probably changed in really magical and mystical ways that are really beautiful to consider. Right? Or streaming culture is just digesting us all. It's just what it's just the new way that people watch things like and that's just how it is. Right.

[00:05:08] Where everyone's like, oh, I think what HBO Max is going for is this and I'm like, I think what HBO Max is going for is that it will be one of the major networks because that's what network TV is going to be.

[00:05:17] It'll be like the big streaming network. Like that's what they're going for. Everyone just needs to have one now. You know what's fascinating to me? I know we're shooting 17 different directions here, but all these things are on subject.

[00:05:30] I'm just dropping contradictory, not contradictory, but I'm shooting bullets in opposite directions. All on this theme. Okay. Okay. Miyazaki, a little more difficult to watch these films than most in that you have to buy the physical things or... Sure.

[00:05:48] Need a desk or maybe go to the movies or shirt. Right. Right. Go to a library. The digital rental is the big thing you're lacking with Miyazaki up until 2020. Because I'll pay four bucks to watch a movie.

[00:06:01] Well this is something I have found that now and we've been doing the show for almost five years now. This is such a cultural shift. Now if we cover a movie that is not free quote unquote streaming available on a platform and it requires a $3 rental,

[00:06:20] people go, oh this movie's like impossible to find. Right? It's like easier than ever. When I was a kid you had to go to the dang video store and maybe they didn't even have it. You know what I'm saying? Like... You're saying kids today. Kids today.

[00:06:36] You're putting on an apron and you're grumbling about how people bow. Full awareness that some of the kids are people in their 40s who listen to the show. But I understand it. It's like we're conditioned at this point. I use the Apple TV app, right? So do I.

[00:06:53] I know what you're talking about where you can sort of say into the remote essentially like... Well you don't like to say it in the tournament. I'm not that fancy. I'm not talking no robots. I'm typing it in.

[00:07:02] But I'll just like take my remote and I'll just be like... Fancy sims. Name a movie. Stop like this. Name a movie. Just pick a movie, right? Scooby Doo Two Monsters Unleashed. Scooby Doo Two Monsters Unleashed and it will go like...

[00:07:12] It's available right now on stars and I like subscribe to stars so I can watch it. Well a man of words. I like to read that text as it shows up on screen. But yes, it will tell you that, right? It'll like...

[00:07:23] It sort of collates all the subscriptions you might have. Yes. And it finds the... And then once in a while you want to watch Scooby Doo Two Monsters Unleashed and no one's got it. So it says rent for $3.99 and I'm like... Well I could do that.

[00:07:33] Or I could just watch one of the 40 million other movies that I could just watch in a second right there. And so maybe then that's sort of part of it, right? People are just like, well there's other options. And even sometimes it will say like...

[00:07:45] You know, a subscription you haven't necessarily signed up for. Sure. It'll just be like just so you know this is on Cinemax. Right, you can get it on... Do I have to select? Right. And you're like... Do a one week free trial. Sure, sure. So I have...

[00:08:00] You know, whatever it is. Yeah. But yes, I mean this guy has been the one major outlier where it's like... H.M. H.M. Miyazaki-san. Miyazaki. Miyazaki. Miyazan. Where he's just like don't want it on digital at all. It flattens the movies out.

[00:08:16] I want to control the context in which these films are seen. I want them to retain their specialness. Because you're never going to be able to say to Netflix or HBO Max like,

[00:08:26] Hey, we'll give you the rights but only if the movies can only be watched at like a home theater experience. Right. Because I think part of what distresses is like, What if kids are watching it on their tiny little phone? What if they're not even playing the sound?

[00:08:40] Like things like that, you know. God forbid Netflix 4X speed. Yeah, what if they're watching it at 4X? Right, any of those things. Not 4DX. I mean he would love 4DX. Miyazaki loved one thing. Finally, the smells I dreamed of. Oh boy.

[00:08:56] The back punches I had always imagined in my heart. I'm very curious, we were talking about this the other day but of course this is a blank check. It's podcast about homographies, directors of Mass Success earlier on. They're crazy about this.

[00:09:10] There are a bunch of blank checks, make whatever crazy pageant products they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. And we're closing the book on Miyazaki. The big leather bound book that paid off brilliantly in our final episode.

[00:09:21] Well you never really let me in on that bit. I will say you kind of set it up without. We never discussed it for a closing moment. You know, Chip Smith will be back. It's called improv my friend.

[00:09:30] Yeah right, well you're only one of us who's a trained improviser. Well that's interesting. Well too, right? Thank you! Are you a trained improviser? You took a class. I took some classes. I did some improv. I think that counts as train. I'll take it.

[00:09:45] I'm more actually responding because I had cut all that out. Good call. You cut all of that out? Yeah it wasn't very good. Okay, should I keep it in? No, keep it cut out. Keep it out and double cut it. So then here's some real...

[00:10:01] Keep it out and have it? Would that mean there's a reverse? Here's some real bonus content. We did a Bad Chip Smith bit and it's gone. You'll never hear it. You'll never hear it. Salute Bad Chip Smith. It's not even like paywall stuff. It's just like not good.

[00:10:17] Yeah what if we just put it on the paywall and the pre-trend number. It's just collapsed. Whatever, it's cool. Yeah everything's good. So this is the thing you and I were talking about.

[00:10:31] I would not be surprised if a sort of condition of the deal with HBO Max was that they have their own sort of... A vertical essentially right like a section within the site? A vertical. That it's sort of like... I don't know what's the word I'm looking for?

[00:10:53] Foisted. I haven't that but that he has some ability to sort of frame the films, contextualize the films, put them in their own little section. Sure. Right, it's not just like spirited away is next to Snow Dogs and the Asian... Silo. Silo, sure. Right.

[00:11:11] Now if you're Noah Jupe, don't get in that silo. You might drown in corn. It's a reference to a quiet place. Yes. Just thought I'd do that. Noah Jupe. Noah Jupe, isn't that his name? Yeah it's quite a pull though. Jupey, he's everywhere. What else is he in?

[00:11:24] Jupey Jupe? Am I not thinking... He's in Honey Boy this year which is sort of his breakout. Oh and what? The corn. He's in the corn silo of course. But no he was in Suburbicon. I feel like he was in one other thing. He's sort of...

[00:11:36] I didn't realize I was the same kid. Well this is the new kid you know this is kind of like... He's the new kid. You know like yeah it's this... I haven't seen Wonder apparently. Apparently he's in Wonder. Oh and he's in Ford versus Ferrari as well.

[00:11:48] He plays Christian Bale's plucky young son. You know that movie where Christian Bale jumps on a child's shoulders and goes vroom vroom. Can I do a joke about Ford versus Ferrari which is not going to be... It's going to be coming out right around at this point.

[00:12:04] You know it has... It's a movie that I like things about and I think it's pretty fun to watch but it's sort of like not quite you know great great. And one of the problems is it has this wife character played by Katrina Balfe from Outlander.

[00:12:18] Very good actor. She's Christian Bale's wife and it's a lot of like... You know like you know one of those very thankless characters that you really hoped we were done with at this point even in a period.

[00:12:28] She unfolds the lawn chair to watch her husband get in a fist fight. I think it would be funny to do a movie like that a biopic where you've got like Damon and Bale right? Where the wife is... Both of them have wives played by the same actor.

[00:12:40] They have the same name and they perform the same function and no one addresses it. Where basically they just both are married to the same woman. But it's not like it's just like where the movie just doesn't even bother. It literally like clips the wife into both scenes.

[00:12:54] I've talked about this but the Untouchables. The Untouchables. Where Richard Clarkson plays the wife of Elliot Ness. Who has a pretty substantial role. Maybe the largest role outside of the Untouchables themselves and Ness. A lot of screen time.

[00:13:15] Phenomenal actress is credited in the final film as Ness's wife. Is never given a character name. It's a bit of a movie based on a real person. And they could have just looked up what was Elliot. They could have grabbed their little serial moat like Blue Blood Sims.

[00:13:32] Blue Bloods but like no I don't want to compare myself to the show you were in either. I do think Blue Bloods is a great film. I think it's fucked up. The Untouchables didn't acknowledge that like the real Ness had a yo-yo

[00:13:45] and a backwards baseball cap and a stripy shirt. I mean an incredible joke. And I'm too tired to laugh. I didn't sleep at all last night but inside I am... Guffawing. I am... I'm very happy about it. You know those jokes that one is silly and funny.

[00:14:02] And two also you can just imagine the joke like you just imagined Ness in the movie. He comes constantly dressed like that and you can have a little laugh. I can't do it. Kevin fucking Kossner. Hi, I'm Miyazaki. King of Dreams and Madness.

[00:14:17] I just wanted to say we're talking about he's you know he's a true teller. You know he pushes boundaries right but... Sometimes you miss him. Sometimes you miss him. Except he never misses. He actually never misses his entire life. No but in this movie it's about him.

[00:14:30] It's following his creative process on this film and yes it's sort of... And then at the same time everyone in the movie at the same time Isawa Takahata is making The Tale of the Princess Kaguya which was supposed to come out exact same the exact same time

[00:14:43] but was so massively delayed it came out like 18 months later. Well he's almost like the good dough of yes. And then everyone is like you know Miyazaki yeah sure he'll bust your balls but Takahata Jesus Christ. He scares the shit out of me.

[00:14:56] Like anytime anyone brings him up they're like oh Pakusanwa you know I don't know what to say. Like he's this nightmare figure looming over things. At the end of the movie he pops in for one second and he's just like

[00:15:07] I think what's good about Hayami Miyazaki is he makes good films and like that's all they get out of him. Yeah it's just wild stuff. This whole thing is wild. Yes I took back to this like the truth teller thing right? Yeah.

[00:15:21] It never feels like he is trying to be provocative. No. It just feels like at any given moment he takes a deep breath and consumes his surroundings and then just perfectly eloquently but cuttingly lays you out. Analyzes the situation.

[00:15:38] But it's like if it's like your grandpa who has no- Sometimes it's the world. Yes sometimes it's a room. He lays the world out. Right. Sometimes it's about Ghibli. Yeah. He does it about himself. Like that's the thing is that he feels so kind of clear

[00:15:53] about everything around him. And this documentary so much about the purity of his process and it does feel like right there is like a weird purity to all the things you're describing. Yes. But he is, he's like your grandpa who has no filter

[00:16:06] except instead of just like saying some sort of like vaguely offensive thing. He's correct. He's correct. Exactly. You're like someone like this shouldn't exist who is just this consistently correct about it. He's always got his apron on. It's incredible. What a king. The apron wearing king.

[00:16:21] And that he owns the company. I know. But he's, it's about the work. Yeah. It's about the process. This is that very early scene where they're having the producer Suzuki who obviously like runs shit. Right. He's like- Incredible character. Incredible and like just has the burden of these

[00:16:35] you know insane artists to carry with him. And he's having like a production meet. He's having like a merchandise. I forget what it's merchandise. Yeah. And they're talking- It's a merchandise spotlight. And then you see Miyazaki like walk by and sort of go

[00:16:45] sort of waves his hands and then walks on. It's like he's never going to walk into that. He doesn't want to be in that meeting. Right. Ever. Even though he's nominally like the founder. He understands that that pays the bills. Right. But it is crazy.

[00:16:58] You mentioned the apron. Love that apron. He's literally wearing it. Yeah. Every single moment. His routine as shown in this film. Yeah. Wakes up in his nice but not you know gigantic, you know nice sized house. That was the thing I had always heard about why he was

[00:17:14] never going to make a streaming deal was like no amount of money matters to him. He has a nice house. He's got a nice house. That's it. But like the keyword was nice. Not like he already owns a mansion.

[00:17:24] It was like he has a modest home that he enjoys. It seems like his home, which seems like a very nice place is valued partly because he can get up. He can walk up to Jeebly. The whole- Wearing his apron.

[00:17:36] He can walk by the nursery where the staffers, kids are being nursereed and he can wave to them. Yes. He can go to his desk and he can draw pictures of airplanes and you know think about life. Doesn't he say he has a massage brush that is

[00:17:49] part of his routine? We never see it. He outlines his whole day. It's very simple. And his day is so simple that massage brush gets above the title billing. You never see him- A cornerstone of his- Right. I'm trying to think.

[00:18:03] I mean there's the famous spirited away DVD extra where he makes ramen for everyone. Yeah, I feel like- But like I don't think you see me much. Cook at home. Do you? I guess one time you do. I feel like you do.

[00:18:14] Yeah, I don't know if you see him eat. It's like you know the DeFarra pizza guy, Dominic DeMarco. One of the- Legend. In my opinion the greatest New Yorker alive. It's a really good argument. Like you might- I think it was New York make-

[00:18:26] One of those places used to have one of those sort of- Yeah. 20 questions where the question is always the same and one of them was like who's the best New Yorker? Yeah. And I was like if they ever asked me it's Dom DeMarco. I think that's a great-

[00:18:35] That's a great choice. You know and he's old and he spends all day making pizzas in his rat infested beautiful wonderful pizza place. And then like apparently for dinner he has like a slice of pizza and a glass of wine. Yeah.

[00:18:46] I feel like that's what you want to strive for. I would be in an old guy where you're like I don't need much anymore. I kind of know what you're talking about remind me and for any of the listeners who don't know who you're talking about.

[00:18:54] He runs a DeFarra pizza. It's a famous- I want on packages. Yeah. He is kind of the American Miyazaki. Sure, right. It's like simplicity. I was watching this and I was trying to think like who else is like this in their field?

[00:19:08] So just to clarify you're right for listeners who wouldn't know it's like a place in Brooklyn deep in Brooklyn that's been around forever. It's been around since the 70s. Just guide Dom the Marco. It's on like the Avenue Q stop on the X train.

[00:19:20] It's on the Avenue J stop on the Q train. Okay, but that's a funny joke. It was funny joke. Thank you. And he like you know it looks like just a regular old slice joint. He's had it for like 60 years?

[00:19:32] Since the early 70s I think so you know 50-ish years and he makes pizzas. He's the only one although now I think he's old enough that now I think his kids do now assist because it used to just be him and

[00:19:44] his kids would just take the orders for a very long time like up until five years ago he did literally everything. He's got these hands dough himself are like oven mitts because they have this incredibly hot oven which he says is like the secret to his success.

[00:19:57] Yeah, and he's just pulling them out with his hands. He pulls them out with his bare hands. Every pizza pie you made everyone himself your into the ingredients himself. He's got the vase on the window. It used to be like you know they'd make

[00:20:11] like one or two slice pies a day. And so however many slices come out of that pie that's the single slices they sell and otherwise you got to buy a full pie. It's quite expensive it always has been quote-unquote over price but it's great.

[00:20:26] It is truly the single best thing I've ever tasted. It's a fun experience too even though usually I have to wait a while and like that's sort of part of the whole you know process. Very often there's like a line around the block and you're watching this

[00:20:37] old man. I think he's in his 80s at this point. I think he's like he's shuffling around. I mean the square pie as well if you ever want to go so good. Yeah. And then when the pizza is almost done he'll kind of look up at you

[00:20:48] and be like pizza you know and you're like yeah and he takes out the basil and he like snips it sort of roughly with scissors with scissors to sort of like finish it off. Yeah anyway so yeah and he always has an apron much like he always

[00:21:00] has an apron. He like used to work seven days a week. Yeah. He then started taking one day off. I think it's open like five days a week. Yeah. It's closed like Monday Tuesday. I mean I think his son-in-law sort of followed him.

[00:21:14] A couple of his kids have followed him. He has other people working now off of his recipe. They franchise so now they have a couple other locations. It's an incredible recipe but there was something to the fact that it was this one guy. What a guy.

[00:21:28] For about 50 years he's got this little hat. Made every single pie himself. Almost never took a day off. I mean literally you could count on two hands the times he had taken days off within decades. And he said that every night.

[00:21:45] He gets a slice of pizza and a glass of wine for him. He makes himself one last pie for the day. Right. And then he has some pizza and a glass of wine to make sure that it's still good. And he has told himself the moment

[00:21:57] the pie has dipped in quality is the moment he retired. It reminds me of kind of how Bourdain always talked about street food vendors as well. People who have spent 20, 30, 40 years making one dish and perfecting. That's his thing. Yeah. 100%. It's like this guy perfected

[00:22:17] pizza and that's his only goal is to perfect pizza. And he is sort of very reluctantly by his children been pulled into the 21st century. Yeah once. Where they were like you're going to die at some point. I'm sure they're not praising

[00:22:29] it in that way unless they are Miyazaki ask. But they're sort of like we need to like create a future for this because we don't want your legacy and your reputation. There are now there's now these sort of franchise locations. There's a couple of them.

[00:22:42] I think there's one in Vegas. They're not as good as another one. I mean, they're still pretty good. You're like this is a great recipe for pizza versus this being the best thing I've ever put in my mouth. He tried to open or they try

[00:22:53] someone tried to open a sandwich shop once that was around the corner. Yeah. That was pretty good. But it didn't make it. They owned like the other. And they own like the next word. Yeah. Anyway, Miyazaki. It is that thing though and he

[00:23:06] is like very famously a man a few words. He's like I just make the pizza. Right. You know. And Miyazaki has that same sort of like put on the apron sit at my desk. It's kind of incredible how it's just like a little David's miming Miyazaki hunched over

[00:23:22] etching, drawing, scribbling. But he's just got a little desk in the corner of the room. He's got no executive office. Not that I expected that he would have some big like fucking no, right? But he's very man. Yeah. In the bullpen with the other animators. Yeah.

[00:23:40] And everyone's sort of like afraid of him, but he's there mostly women. Very noticeably mostly women. Yes. Yes. I would say. Yeah. Yeah. There's this sort of side kick slash my guess is one of the lead animators to sing next to him. Yes.

[00:23:55] And early on he like gives her what I imagine is like the highest praise he could ever see where he's like she's a good animator or something like that. Right? You remember that? She's his favorite. What's her name? Her name is so perfect too. I don't remember.

[00:24:09] But yes, he keeps on talking about how fond he is of her and her. And he presided over her wedding. Right. And you find out at the end in somewhat of a twist that she's three months pregnant. Yes. And she has told everyone else. Right.

[00:24:21] Suzuki is like, yeah, she didn't want to tell you until it was done. I'm the last to know. Yeah. And mostly the film is just about them finishing the win-rises. Right. There's no dramatic problems. No. This isn't like the great, of course, film, Ghosts of the

[00:24:37] Abyss in which they find out that 9-11 happens halfway through or anything like that. What a wild movie. It's a wild ass movie. We should go back and watch Ghosts of the Abyss again. To a director's commentary. Yeah. I believe Ali into the Deep

[00:24:47] is going to be on Disney Plus so. Really? Yeah. I think it's going to be a little bit more dramatic than the other two. I think it's going to be a little bit more dramatic than the other two. Yeah, so. Really? But not Ghosts of the Abyss?

[00:25:00] I think Ghosts of the Abyss might not be Disney. It might be Paramount. I think it's Disney. Well, but it was... I think they're both Disney because I remember there being a combo 3D Blu-ray set. You're right, it is Disney. Which I realize I should own.

[00:25:13] I don't know. I don't know. Disney was kind of the only studio doing 3D at that moment. Right. So anyway, there's nothing like that. The most dramatic plot moment I would say. Yeah, yeah. I just want to clarify. Yes, there's nothing like that.

[00:25:28] 9-11 does not happen in this movie that is set. Oh, but there is... You hear that radio address from the Japanese Prime Minister of the time where he's talking about the aftermath of the Fukushima disaster? So there are things in the air that are clearly sort of

[00:25:41] like on their minds. And because they're making the wind rises, they will occasionally discuss like the war and the morality of this person that they're making a movie about things like that, right? Yeah. So I would say the most dramatic moment is that Miyazaki

[00:25:56] gets a letter from a neighbor of his when he was a young child during the Second World War. When he was taken in by another family, right? When he was evacuated. Right. And this man who is older than Miyazaki, so probably in his late 70s, his like...

[00:26:11] His name is Jojo Rabbit. ...is relating a story of like we were bombed and my house was burned down and we went to your house and no one was there and we were sitting there and then your dad came and gave us chocolate

[00:26:23] and I remember this very fondly and I wish to like tell you of it. Yes. Miyazaki is like, he's just staggered by this letter and keeps thinking about it and discussing it and like wonders how to respond to it. That's the big dramatic thing in this movie.

[00:26:37] And at the end he responds to the letter but he can't even bear to read it himself. Right. So the director of the documentary reads it. Correct. And like I just... I feel like people in... People making a similar kind of movie about a director

[00:26:53] might find that to be like that's a little inconsequent. Like we don't need that, right? Let's not put that in the movie whereas Tsunata is like this will be the sort of moral centerpiece of the film. Why also really? Because I take years to respond

[00:27:08] to emails because of self inflicted pressure to make it perfect. But it is that thing of just like he has in a way narrowed his life to the essentials. Yes, 100%. Of the things that are fulfilling to him. Yes. He feels either gives value

[00:27:27] to the world or gives him value. He is married but you don't see his wife. Is his wife not the woman at the end? I think so. I mean that is a sliver of... You see her right for a second. And there's a scene where

[00:27:39] they're reading the newspaper. Oh yeah, that's right. But you barely see his wife. You barely see her. She speaks in that scene. Because there's that scene right at the end, yes, where she was like, when's it going to be done? He's like joking about her.

[00:27:51] She appears a little bit at the end. At one point the filmmaker asked him, so how did you know your wife was the one and he was like, what do you mean? This is such a weird part. What made you realize that you wanted to be with her?

[00:28:03] And he was like, I married her because that is what you do. It had to be done. And then she asked some follow up question. He's like, that's the secret of life. I can't reveal it. Or he just doesn't have an answer. This is the thing you do.

[00:28:16] You marry someone. It feels like it's two personal questions for me, Zach. There's just some sort of wall you can't reach. But in the slivers you see of the two of them together, they seem very happy and warm together. It's not like this is some weird

[00:28:30] marriage of convenience. They've been married for 50 years. Like you'd, yeah, 100%. Well, there are people who are married for 50 years. That's true. And they live separate lives and all that. No, I know. And also, Wind Rises is a very warm movie about a marriage in a way too. So...

[00:28:43] Yes. I don't know. I don't know. You also see his son. I'm saying they're not the Locorns. No, they're not the Locorns. I mean, you know, they're not as funny as the Locorns if that's what you mean. Do you know that when I was

[00:28:54] little, there's no reason you would know this. When I was little, I used to think the Locorns was called the comics. Okay. Because why? Because it was like, was it at the top of your funny pages and it said like comics? Like, and the Locorns? Maybe.

[00:29:08] Remember the Locorns? No. It's one of those great comics, you know, the funny pages. It'd be a one panel. Sure, it's a square. A perfect square. You got this man, Mr. Lochorn, and this lady, Mrs. Lochorn, they're married to each other and they both think that the

[00:29:21] other one sucks shit. I guess I kind of remember this. They fucking hate it. It's like basically she's like I made you dinner and he's like, well fuck you. Yeah. I want a divorce. Like that's sort of the humor level. This was before I could

[00:29:33] read and when the newspaper would arrive, I would tell my father, can you read me the comics? Right. And he would know that means I have to read aloud a Lochorn to my son. Well, you don't have to read aloud. Oh, so would he just make it up?

[00:29:45] No, because to me that was the comics. You just wanted the Lochorns? And then after that I'd be like let me read these other things but the comics to me meant the Lochorn. That is really weird. And he would read it to me

[00:29:56] and I would go, I don't get it. It wasn't like I loved the Lochorns. I'd be like what's the joke there? And then I'd read Peanuts and I'd be like this shit rules. Yeah. Why isn't this the comics? I was a Farside guy. Farside rules.

[00:30:09] That makes so much sense. I'm mentioning Farside because what do you guys think about the new apparent, like apparently there's a new Farside? Is it going to happen or is that confirmed or not? I mean I just sort of saw a lot of stuff on social media.

[00:30:22] There's been a lot of business around the Farside again but then it seemed like it's just that he digitized it and made a website. Well, is there new stuff going to happen? Is there new stuff going to happen? The website was updated with

[00:30:35] a new online era of the Farside has come. I think the era is just Farside has been added to HP helmets. I don't know, we'll see. We'll find out. Anyway, I mean generally into it one of those things where I'm like does his sense of humor

[00:30:51] and perspective belong where it was? I love that stuff but do I need him talking about now? But maybe I do. I always love the Farside. He also, he falls in that weird category too of him and why am I frigging his name now with Calvin and Hobbes?

[00:31:07] Sure. Where they both... Jim something. It's not Jim. Okay, great. I want to say Roger but it's not. Everyone's yelling at me right now. Everyone's listening to this podcast and screaming. Was your question a little sorry? Like writer at Calvin and Hobbes. Bill Waterson.

[00:31:25] Oh Bill Waterson, Jesus Christ. I'm sorry, I wasn't listening. Yeah, clearly. It wasn't interesting what you were saying. I got an email popped up. Anyway, gone. Anything good? I gotta tell you, pretty regular. Those two guys have a weird sort of integrity that is usually lacking

[00:31:46] in American art where they were just like, I'm done. Yeah, most of the funny pages they just run forever and you know your cute comic about life in an office for a Gen Xer in a cubicle culture will turn into some weird like Trump's greed about being

[00:32:01] an alpha male or whatever. David it's such a good strap. Look when I was a kid I loved Dilbert. It makes so much sense that he is such an air of superiority because the strip is so it's a cornerstone of American people. I haven't been following what's

[00:32:16] been going on with Dilbert. You're saying he's like Republican Adam. Republican is it would be a kind and gentle way to describe whatever happened. No, he turned into sort of a weird kind of testosterone red pill guy. Right? Like I don't know.

[00:32:32] And kind of one of those like kings of like debate me bro Twitter attitudes right. Right. He's just all the time he's like well I mean to actually superior to you and like here's how I prove it also I have big muscles. That's his big thing that he's

[00:32:45] like jacked and 60 and he's smarter than everybody and he knows better because he made Dilbert. Anyway isn't there a rumor that his house is in the shape of Dilbert's head? There is a house in the shape of Dilbert. Is it? In the shape of Dilbert's head. OK.

[00:33:10] I think it's maybe true. If it's not true, I want it to be true because I like this idea of this guy living in a cartoon head house. That may be funny. Dilbert's got a good head. Intelligent male life. Yeah. I mean he's got a looks like

[00:33:28] a castle. It's got little crenellation. Right. I think that's yes. I always liked him. He's got the two blank eyes that look like portals. Wally. I don't know. I'm trying to remember other Dilbert characters. Wally, Dogbert. Catbert. Well, Dogbert and Catbert and the boss of course, the pointy

[00:33:43] hair boss. Who's the guy with the tie going up? That's Dilbert. Dilbert's the one with the tie going up. Oh then who's Wally? Wally is like the other one. He's got glasses. He's bald. Oh yeah. He's his co-worker and then there's I think Alice

[00:33:56] the one with the triangle. Remember the Larry Charles cartoon? Yeah I kind of like the cartoon. I think that was funny in a way. I don't know. Catbert. We said him already. Ratbert I think. Geez. I think it was like a dinosaur. Oh there was. Anyway, I'm not.

[00:34:12] I'm not. Yeah, fuck Dilbert. Dilbert's a piece of shit. Dilbert to cock. I don't know. Why are we talking about this in our Miyazaki episode? Well because we were talking about comic strips. I think Miyazaki's in the red Dilbert. I knew that. And he's like, hey,

[00:34:25] he gets it. He has a unique insight into life in the cubicle. The spiritual crisis suffered by Dilbert. The spiritual crisis suffered by Dilbert is one suffered by many a person in the 21st century. A day in the office eats at us all equally.

[00:34:38] He has that line very early on where he's like, I am not a 21st century person. Like he's like, I'm a man of the 20th century. I do not want to deal with the 21st century. But I also love how sort of Dilbert by the way.

[00:34:47] Dilbert says that. Yeah, as soon as Ty goes up into his face. I love how flummoxed he is by the 20th century too. Like he keeps on talking about the 21st century. Like he keeps on talking about the 21st century. And then he's like,

[00:34:57] I'm not going to talk about the 21st century. I'm not going to talk about the 21st century. That's why he's so confused by the 20th century too. Like he keeps on talking about the confusion, his confusion around how Japan acted in like different decades. Sure, yeah.

[00:35:13] His parents' generation. Like he's sort of just so confounded by the totality of human behavior. Well it's one thing that's why I wrote the letter that becomes this weird central thing. Yeah, right. That's sort of him thinking about his own

[00:35:28] about, you know, I would call him a war profiteer because he sold airplane parts. And so he said, I mean, he's like, he's kind of referring to a more radical past of his, right? You also see that image of him as a union guy.

[00:35:42] He was like part of the union when he worked at Toe Animation, I think. And so he sort of has this retrospective, yeah, you know, oh, yeah, you know, I am, I was, I was a little more jacked up back then.

[00:35:53] But then also he's like, but my father did this good thing. And this is very interesting for me to consider like the sort of selfless thing my dad did. Not only that, but it's like a moment of very like intimate kindness that it seems like he

[00:36:06] did not experience with his own father very often. And because it was directed at another child, that's the kind of thing that makes you reevaluate like why, why isn't my dad giving me chocolate? Not that it was just the chocolate. Although chocolate sounded pretty tight. Chocolate's pretty good.

[00:36:23] I love a chocolate. Big fan. And then he has that, there's that shot. Sometimes they'll insert shots from the windrises where the guys has the two chocolate cakes. Yeah, it's kind of incredible. I just still, we recorded our windrises episode 15 years ago. Right.

[00:36:38] And you were having a goddamn meltdown during it. You were like, what is life? What is existence? Well, I want to talk about that again. Okay. Great. Well, because this thing reopened a lot of those wounds.

[00:36:48] But I was just sort of like so confounded by the fact that people thought this film was pro-war. Oh, sure. Yeah. And he talked so explicitly in this movie. Right. There's that scene where he shows the storyboards to the producer whose name I'm forgetting. Suzuki? Yeah.

[00:37:11] And he's like, it's pretty strongly anti-war. Right. And Miyazaki's like, I know. I think I have to do it though. Like they're concerned that it's going to be too political. The later, very at the end scene where they're showing that he gave interviews, which he did

[00:37:26] at the time of like, Japan has a piece essentially written into its constitution. They're allowed to declare war. And he gave an interview where he was like, we must keep this because it's an ongoing debate in Japan. Maybe we should change our constitution.

[00:37:42] And they're reading the new headlines with it. Like, oh, this could hurt the film, but I think it was important. So yeah, again. But it's one of those... Put himself out there. Yeah.

[00:37:52] But it's one of those things where it's like, I don't understand if it's just that American audiences wanted a didactic explanation that Japan's collaboration with Germany was bad. Right. Which the film is so clearly saying.

[00:38:05] I mean, the whole Werner Herzog character is like, you know, the one sort of good German who understands the evil of what's happening around him. And Miyazaki says it so clearly in this movie, which is just like, he just loves planes. And unfortunately... There's that moment, right?

[00:38:25] Where he says like, they're just so cool though. But he's sort of like, what a dramatic irony that this man who has no interest in war. He loves planes. He loves a thing that ultimately will be used for war, which is the thing he's interested in.

[00:38:40] And it's like, especially in a year with fucking like Jojo Rabbit in A Hidden Life, you know? Where it's like, you got two movies that are about, and I haven't seen Hidden Life yet.

[00:38:51] But two movies that are about like individual Germans who do not agree with their country's actions in the time of World War II. And this film is purposefully messier because it's about someone who is not pro-war, but can literally be weaponized.

[00:39:13] Which is also a thing that Miyazaki taught. This is the part that destroyed me the most, where he's talking about like, I feel stupid for making movies. Like I make movies because they are a pure and beautiful thing for me, and I'm obsessed

[00:39:26] with them, but I don't think they accomplish any good. I think mostly they're pretty much bad now. I used to think there was a purity to this art form. It feels foolish.

[00:39:34] I want to see if I can pull up the exact same, because the way he words it is just like so cutting. But that's the thing that broke me watching when Rises is it's like, yes there's like a larger extreme example.

[00:39:42] We talked about this on the episode, I remember that. And for me, I like the Miyazaki mini-series. A, in a certain way, these are tough films to watch in the way that we watch them.

[00:39:57] Where it's like you're going through his entire life in a condensed period of time, mostly watching his movies, spending this much time thinking about him. And I was pretty all-consuming. And at the time we were doing the mini-series, I was also a pretty raw nerve because of the

[00:40:14] tick cancellation, which I was super fucking depressed about. Unless the end of that specific job and more my feeling of like incredible confusion and fear about like what the fuck can I possibly do in this industry now? Well, because you guys are also obsessed with trajectories. Totally.

[00:40:33] And I know that you're having this moment of now reassessing. I'm having one of those moments that we tend to talk about on the podcast. Right. Trying to figure out what the fuck I'm doing. Yeah, where do I point myself?

[00:40:43] And what scares me is I look around and it's not even about like boo-hoo job prospect shit. It's not me complaining about not getting hired for stuff. I look around I'm like, I don't know what to do with this landscape.

[00:40:54] I think in much of the way that Miyazaki- What would satisfy? What would feel worthwhile or important or? All of that. Those things. Um, to a certain degree. I've been very lucky that I have gotten to accomplish a lot of the things that existed

[00:41:12] as like big artistic dreams of mine. Whether or not the things ended up becoming successful or, you know, surviving or even being seen by people, like in terms of the actual like the challenge

[00:41:25] of the work, I've gotten to do a lot of the things I wanted to do, which I I've been incredibly spoiled in that sense. And so like that list is diminished and I look around now and it's like, well,

[00:41:38] those are the things I had as like 20 year goals. And I somehow accomplished a lot of them in like 10 years. And now what do I want to be challenged by? And I look around at the landscape and I'm like, I don't know if the

[00:41:48] things that I would want to do the most are even possible to do today. You know, I don't know if the landscape exists. Not to be oblique about it, because it's hard to like verbalize some of it.

[00:42:01] But even just in terms of what gets made and how it gets made. Yeah. How it gets made is so much of it. Like watching the way that Miyazaki is just like, I'm doing the whole storyboard myself. I don't have a script. No one can read it.

[00:42:15] People get drips and drabs. And then when I'm finally done, I hand the storyboard to my producer and friend of 40 years and he sits down and reads it and goes like, OK, you know, and I do it when I do it. It's done when I done.

[00:42:29] It's done when I done. Jeez, that thing that he says when they like show the archival video of them founding the the G. Blee Studios, the physical space being able to buy the space and build

[00:42:43] the company and all of that when he sort of says like, you know, if you are here for long term job security, you are in the wrong place. The only reason for you to be here is because you want to do the work

[00:42:54] and that's what's satisfying to you. Most companies are just a conduit for money and I'm not interested in money. Yeah, money is incredible. I think in Japan, especially you can tell like they're a little more there, they're like a little unusual, like those old pictures of them.

[00:43:07] They kind of look cool. Yes, got like the collared, you know, not buttoned down. It's like, you know, and like they dress a little because I think in Japan still, even though it's a changing country, like every country,

[00:43:18] there is that expectation of like get a job at a good company and you can work your way up and like that's very much like a system we can still subscribe to. Right. And he seems to be laying out like, that's not really how we're going to do.

[00:43:30] Like that's not what this is. He's doing a far. This is not like an apprenticeship, you know, up to the boss. You're not going to get a corner office or whatever. Right. Because because the other thing they say is I mean, there's like that

[00:43:42] that scene where he sort of like walks by where they're doing the merchandise and we've talked about this in other episodes, but that they like he was so resistant to merchandise for a while. He realized it was necessary at a certain point and only like acquiesce

[00:43:54] when he felt like the actual craftsmanship of the product was so undeniable that he had to respect that they were putting the same level into the merchandise that he does into his own work. Right. But that they cap how much merchandise they can sell per year

[00:44:08] and that like in a year like this, where you have their two big directors like deep into trying to make their next and possibly final films with no end in sight, you know, years over schedule that they need to sell that stuff to keep the lights on.

[00:44:24] But that part of the design of the company is it doesn't have to grow every year. We don't have to like expand with our successes. We need to be able to have a year where we don't make a movie

[00:44:36] and don't make that much money and it doesn't bankrupt us. That our overhead is so low that the success of one film can like carry us for five years or whatever, you know? Uh-huh. It is kind of incredible how much he doesn't care about anything

[00:44:53] other than the purity of whatever he's trying to say in the movies working on at that moment, you know? That scene that's incredible where it's like a bunch of the animators sit around their desk and I assume one of like the

[00:45:04] supervising animators is like giving them notes and then he walks by and goes like the woman must not. He's giving a specific note about how she sort of is giving a side eye. She's like looking to the side and turning her head.

[00:45:18] And he's like it makes her look disdainful in a way that like a woman would not have behaved in this era. Like it's too modern. And also it's just not the type of film we're making and it's not who this character is.

[00:45:29] And that's also tied to the whole thing. I didn't like, I guess you told me this, but I didn't fully process the weirdness of him hiring Anno to. It's, I believe we talk about it actually on the house. Cause Ehrlich was all in on that performance.

[00:45:43] But I mean, it's a watching that whole thing unfold is fantastic. Is insane because I know worked with him. I believe it's on Nossica right and he did the monster. Yes. And so they you know they have a long-standing relationship, but

[00:45:54] then he does a huge figure in directs in Godzilla. So he is you know certainly busy and important right? And there's just there's that scene where they're like well, what should the guy sound like? And Miyazaki has this whole concept of like he's conserving

[00:46:09] all his energy to use artistically and designing like so he would be clipped and he would be business like and he would not speak, you know, he would speak in this very precise way. Exactly. And then someone's like, what if we do Anno and Miyazaki's like, what?

[00:46:26] That's interesting. You know, like he keeps being like, oh, he can't let it go. It's even funnier than that. I can't do it. I mean, it's so funny to watch him behave that way. They give him the list and he's like, this is what

[00:46:37] this character needs to be. And he's like talking on such like deep terms. Right. About the elements that are important in this character and the things that would betray the character. And then the producer says like, so it almost feels like you want a non-actor.

[00:46:53] You want a non-actor. Right. Exactly. Cause he says like none of these people on this list can do that. And then they're like, what do you want? He's like, like almost if it was someone who like sounded like Anno.

[00:47:03] Like they don't even say what if you cast Anno. They're like, like someone who has sounds like him and he's like, Anno does have a weird voice. And then he just keeps on going like. And then just that like where Miyazaki calls him, right?

[00:47:14] And Anno's like, well, how can I refuse you or Miyazaki? The producer calls him and is like, this is going to sound crazy. Yeah. Right. Right. In the car. As you know, Miyazaki is working on Miyasan is working on

[00:47:24] the Wind Rises and he wants you to be the lead character. Right. Yeah. And then just it's very sweet watching him record Miyazaki in the booth. How much he loves him that he loves him, but also like what Miyazaki loving something looks like. Yes.

[00:47:39] Where he looks just like a little amused. Yeah. Basically, but it's clearly overwhelming to him. Other things I want to speed around. Yeah, exactly. There are some few things that that was definitely something at the end of the screening when he says this is the first time

[00:47:53] I ever credit one of my own movies. No, I have to lay this out. Please. They screen the movie in a big screening. Yeah. It looks like the whole staff is there. It's probably a couple hundred people. All of you. He is sitting just in the middle.

[00:48:03] He's not on an aisle. He gets up. He's already announced at this point that he's going to retire. Yeah. Although his statement is very clear that he's not actually going to retire. Okay. You know, because it's right.

[00:48:12] It's like I plan to retire in the next 10 years and I'm like, motherfucker, you're looking your 70. But anyway, he's sitting not even on an aisle gets up with his umbrella. Yeah. Walks out like sort of shuffles between the people in front of the

[00:48:26] P you know stands in front and goes like speech speech speech speech. And he's like this is embarrassing to say, but I've never cried at one of my own movies before. Thank you. Then walks back. No, walks back sits back down like in the chair and then Suzuki's

[00:48:40] like, all right, everyone we can go and then everyone leaves. Like he's not so presumptuous to think that'll end it. He's like, maybe someone else wants to stand up. I don't know. That was just my thought. And anything else that I was moved to tears.

[00:48:54] You also see him sort of being moved to tears when they're doing the voiceovers at one point you can see. Yeah. Yes. Um, I love Miyazaki. I know. I mean, David, thank you for suggesting this. I know. I know. I mean, we talked about.

[00:49:09] Yeah, I mean, your guidance to this. I mean, I am a hundred percent a now Miyazaki fan. Yeah. And it was a weird mini series. I mean, I feel like we did him fast. We did him fast. Yeah.

[00:49:21] I was going through shit, which clashed not clashed with but was like a weird excuse me. Well, I did my my career anxiety formed a weird chemistry with these movies, which are so much about doing the work and focusing on like the purity of life and accepting

[00:49:46] the messiness and the hopelessness of it all in spite of the beauty that surrounds you. Yeah, like what? Yeah, right. He's a weird mix for you for that. It's a weird mix for all of that. And I also like, you know, it's a different culture than

[00:50:01] we've ever tackled in such depth on this show sustained for an entire mini series. And like it's it's a very different sort of like all the context stuff that we love his career functions very differently. It's about one man being sort of steadfast.

[00:50:17] Those are some of the things I want to talk like that scene scene, whatever clip of Suzuki giving the press conference. Yes. Where he's sort of like there's a bunch of reporters. He's like, look, I mean, you know, Takahata, what can I say? The guy's fucking insane.

[00:50:32] He's never going to finish. I don't think he wants to finish. And he's like, I mean, Miyazaki is going for it. I think this is really raising a lot of stuff for him personally. Yeah. He's talking and I'm just comparing that to like a man.

[00:50:41] Yeah. Kevin Feige giving his right, you know, his slide shows of like the next Marvel imagine if confide. He just came out like, yeah. So I mean what's fucking me up about Thor four is this, you know, like it just like sitting with a bunch of guys

[00:50:53] and having a convo. It is just so weird. I thought that same thought like no, I'm how can you be so modest? Yeah, right, right. But it also just feels like he's like like a SoundCloud rapper or something. Right.

[00:51:06] Going like I was feeling this last week and here's my new album and this is what it's about, you know? Yeah. It's like kind of astounding how away from the machinery he is, but not just like, oh, he's like the creative guy and their

[00:51:20] money people around him, but that the people around him sort of follow in his philosophy and shield him from any of business stuff. Because even the whole thing with the NTV guy, where they're like, this is our relationship.

[00:51:31] NTV is the only network where Miyazaki and Ghibli films play. Do you know why? Because this man is like, and then he's like, can I call it a friend? Is it friendship? And the guy's like, yeah, I think it is.

[00:51:43] And he is like, he comes over here every single night and sits here and talks to us and we don't talk about business. We talk about anything else in life. Sounds nice. And eventually we get to talking about family and then our families become friends.

[00:51:55] And then Miyazaki goes on a trip to his cabin and his daughter in that trip on that in that cabin was the inspiration for Spirited Away and everyone in the room gasps. And he's just sort of like, sometimes you got to invest 10 years in like a relationship.

[00:52:11] You've got to trust people. You don't know where the things are going to come from. You just got to do the work. A couple of other things. There's that scene with Goro Miyazaki, this is his son who has he's kind of aggro.

[00:52:24] And he's like, I didn't want to do this and ever want to be an animator. It's a very interesting thing to include. I feel this like onus to make another film because if I don't, these people might not have work. Right.

[00:52:36] You have to understand when I decide whether or not to make a film, I'm fighting against the fact that this isn't what I want to do and I didn't think I'd end up here. So you got that? Yes.

[00:52:47] And then there's this other thing I just want to do this incredible ending, probably the best movie ending of all time. Uh-huh. Where Miyazaki they're doing the press conference and he's like, look out the window. Look at these roofs. Look at that guy.

[00:53:00] He doesn't know we're watching him. And then he imagines like what you could jump across the roof. They really use clips from his movies. And then they do this montage. I think Emily mentioned it on one of them, of all the jumping across the roofs and running

[00:53:11] and things like that. And I mean it should reduce you to rubble. It's just incredible. Yeah. And then the pure ending, my friend, feels like a shot at Miyazaki where it's just him very slowly walking out of the studio with his wife. Uh, there's also a midway through,

[00:53:26] which could have been the ending, that thing where I think I mentioned where he's like, you know, I know how it will end. Like it will all be over soon. Okay. Yes. She leaves a name like off from an airplane. Right.

[00:53:37] They said, does the future of the company not worry you? And he goes, I know what the future is. It will end. Right. It will end. This place will shut down. The name means nothing. The name means nothing. How pretty. He's like staring out into the garden. Yeah.

[00:53:47] I also love how much he talks about like he loves the zero plane so much. Yes. And he doesn't want to draw it himself because he feels like he can't do it, but he's noting everyone to death because it doesn't look like what it feels like.

[00:53:59] Everyone else was like, oh, I thought it was that he's being a taskmaster. Right. But in fact, he can't do it. Right. Right. Even he cannot do it. And this is like an impossible task to try to draw the thing in his brain that he can't explain

[00:54:11] and that he can't draw himself. Right. And then every time they go back to him, they're like, so you just love zeros that much? He's like, I don't like zeros. I don't like them. It's not that I like them.

[00:54:19] And it feels like a 12 year old denying he has a crush on someone. Like every time he does, it's the one time he starts to feel a little riled up in the entire movie where he's like, it's not that I like them.

[00:54:29] I just, you know, it's what the movie demands. Shut the fuck up. Leave me alone. I don't like zeros. Did we really not do a list? All right. Let's do our lists if we haven't done. It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough. Yeah. It's a tough list.

[00:54:44] Oh, I mean my list is ridiculous because I like them all. But and if it is in the other episode, then just cut this shit out. I guess I don't know. Anyway, sorry, I can't remember. I just want to we did it, but maybe I'm just

[00:54:57] conflating some of the list. Make something we didn't mention on Mike. No frigging computers. Oh yeah. Yeah. But we're talking about that. It is so it's so shocking to see an office with no incredible. He doesn't even have like a traditional animator work desk.

[00:55:12] He doesn't have that slanted desk with the light box underneath and all that sort of shit. And you just like watching him do the thing where he like keeps lifting the page back up. It's so yeah, look, we can fetishize this kind of like hand hell.

[00:55:25] Like you know this, you know, this old fashioned stuff, but it is it's hard not to fetishize it. And look at a certain point they hand it off, they scan it in, they use caps to color it and clean up and all that sort of stuff.

[00:55:36] In terms of what he's doing, there's like it's a completely analog office. It seems like you barely see like track devices. It must be so fucking we've talked about this before. To make an animated film and first to be drawn on that shit.

[00:55:50] And for so long to not know what it's going to look like. Yeah, you know, like at least with a movie, you can look at your dailies, you can see what you're getting. Right? It's not going to be the full picture.

[00:56:00] It's one of the many things that scared me off of being an animator when I thought about going down that path. When I started actually doing it, when I like made a couple of animated shorts myself and was like studying it,

[00:56:11] I just that like, you know, it's like sort of Burke always says that like filmmaking is like, it feels like doing a Sura painting where you're like spending this much time looking at one singular like dots

[00:56:30] made by a brush on a canvas and you have to in your mind put together what that dot is going to do in conjunction with all the other dots. So do you like writing an orchestra?

[00:56:40] You don't know what it's going to sound like until it gets put up and all the instruments and all the players are playing. But filmmaking is so bizarre because you don't even have that moment where they're all playing at the same time

[00:56:51] because you're doing all the pieces completely separate, jump out of order in a way that doesn't make sense. And then you hope that when you edit them all together, yeah, it amounts to something greater, you know? I mean, and from every element like the performances,

[00:57:03] their performances that on a scene by scene basis could look perfect that when you cut together, don't work and vice versa. It's a very bizarre thing. All this is overwhelming. I'm glad we did Miyazaki. I'm very excited to have like watched all these films

[00:57:21] and to be able to watch them again, like revisit them. I feel like I've barely sort of grappled with them and they're very lovely to rewatch. Yeah, someone who just rewatched them all. All right, here's my list. Okay, everyone. It's a wild list. Yeah.

[00:57:35] To be clear, everything in this movie is from an eight to a 10. Everything on this list. I mean, in this list, right? Right? Like it's either top or very high for me. So ranking it is sort of very much a matter of personal enjoyment more than objective quality.

[00:57:52] I want to offer the exact same qualifier that I'm just talking about which ones I enjoyed the most. Number one spirit. This is me. This is me. Yeah, this is you. This is me. Well, that's number one is great. Show me all right dog. Take it. All right.

[00:58:05] Sorry. Spirit it away. Number one is here. Number two, Ponyo. Of course. Number three, Porco. Number four, Windrise. This is number five Kiki. Number six Totoro. And I all of those are perfect. Yeah. Number seven Castle in the sky and number eight Nossica.

[00:58:26] Those two are very much twinned for me. Okay. And then number nine Kaki Oster, which I love. Yeah. And number 10, Roninoke and number 11 Howe. I'm not okay at 10s kind of while. That's the mononoke and howe are the only ones that I might not

[00:58:42] just want to watch every single day. Yeah. And I still love them. Okay. My number one spirit away is just kind of undeniable. Hell yeah. It's like it's just a perfect object. I agree. Number two, my main man Porco Ross. Hell yeah. Good boy.

[00:58:58] A movie that Miyazaki refers to in this documentary. He has foolish. And I was like, is he sub tweeting me? Boy, oh boy. But then he they're like, but they press him on there. Like what do you mean by foolish? He's like, well it's for children.

[00:59:11] I didn't have the courage to make a film that wasn't for children. And then you're like, that's his kids movie. I was like, I'm about to say like that ain't that movie's not really for children, but whatever, whatever. Be a pig than a fascist. That kid's path.

[00:59:23] It's like baby shark. Okay. Number two, Porco Rosso. Number three, Castle kind of Gliostra. Number four, that's to be very happy. Yes. Uh, love him been watching a lot of Lupin. Uh, I bought a Lupin action figure, which is, uh, maybe the best action figure I own. Cool.

[00:59:42] Not going to go into this, but it's a, that seems like a whole, that's like a Patreon episode. Is you talking about your action? Let me just play this one. Very well engineered. Oh wow. Very well engineered. I don't know if I love that.

[00:59:54] I don't know what that would be an opportunity to use the 3d mic. And we can record Griffin playing with his toys. Then it's like, look, I bought these damn 3d mics. I got to use the fucking thing. The BNH was closed on a Saturday.

[01:00:06] It wasn't used for the fucking six months. Look, I'm not saying that I'm going to take you up on this, but I liked it for the first time I said something about toys where you were like, I don't understand that and you're almost edging on asking me

[01:00:17] to explain myself. But later. It's very well engineered, but can we very quickly merchandise spot like the thing I got you? Of course. Little Ponyo. Cause I forgot to mention that. I forgot to mention it.

[01:00:27] Well, because it took you a while to remember to give it to me. Oh, amazing. That's my merchandise, but I got David a little plush Ponyo. It's a little stuff. Ponyo. It's so cute. It's about four inches long and what happens? She'll wiggle. She wiggles along.

[01:00:43] She's got a little pony. And you pull it and it wiggles along on her belly. She rules. It's it's it's a it's fishponyo, full fishponyo. Full fishponyo. Okay. So Kagliostro is number three. Number four for me is Castle in the Sky.

[01:00:59] I like those large zones, sons and those flying machines. Number five is Princess Mononoke. Sure. Number six is the Wind Rises. Sure. Number seven is Kiki. OK. Then I would say Nassica. Sure. It's hard to do this. No, I would do Ponyo above Nassica. OK.

[01:01:31] And then how's moving Castle? Did I cover all of them? Oh, I forgot Totoro. Wow, bottom. No, Totoro. I put some bottom because it's definitely above. Howl for me. OK, so pretty good. Ten. OK, I put it at ten.

[01:01:51] I just I just I feel like a dummy, but it's the one I still kind of can't crack. It's a movie I really admire and appreciate, but because I saw it as a full grown up.

[01:02:03] It's always been something I more admire and appreciate than watch over and over again. Yeah. But it's very good. Quite good. David's packing his bag. He has to go see Last Christmas. Gave him his heart. Probably, I don't know. Yeah. I keep I keep fucking the lyrics up.

[01:02:19] Yeah. Paul Feig, right? It's a Paul Feig movie. It's a Feig picture. Well, I don't mind Paul. You know what his next movie is, right? No. A Dark Army. Oh, I do vaguely know. Which is not part of the Dark Universe, but is about universal monsters. All right.

[01:02:32] All right. We're to just title it dark. Anyway, that was me as a key. David is literally running out of the studio. Do you have any final final thoughts, David? It was a great many series to do. Was really contentious for the fan base at times, but whatever.

[01:02:47] Yeah. I really loved watching these movies and then the Demi series is really good. It's very different. Yeah, I think so. Especially compared to we got like half them in the can. Good apps. Good gas. Later, David.