The Last of the Mohicans with Dana Stevens

[00:00:00] Can you before the theme song attach a disclaimer? Hi guys, I'll do it now. Hi guys, this is producer Ben Um, if Griffin and David are listening, I just want to apologize If Griffin, David or Dana are listening, I'm sorry for my behavior and for being late

[00:00:17] I am a saucy boy And also I'll apologize to Rachel because she had to produce the first song And sorry producer Rachel Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect

[00:00:37] All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check I'm Nathaniel of the Yengiz Hawkeye, adopted son of Chinggach Cook Of the Mohican people Let the children of the dead Monroe and the Yengiz officer go free

[00:00:54] This belt which is the record of the days of my father's podcast speaks for my truth Good job Thank you Sorry It's my favorite scene That's your favorite scene? That whole scene, the whole language scene Oh yeah, oh yeah Yeah, the simultaneous translation

[00:01:11] Right, where there's four languages and everyone knows two Yes But people know different twos, different pairs We're saying this is not a very talky movie In relation to most Michael Mann movies which tend to be pretty dialogue heavy Sure

[00:01:26] But then this is this weird scene where you just, I love the sound mix where you're hearing the echo Yes, yeah Of the translators constantly after every line And you're like wow this guy is fast, he's getting that to French right away We've come to that point

[00:01:45] Friends, countrymen Sure The titular episode The titular episode of our mini series Because of course this is Blank Check with Griffin and David Podcast about filmography Right, you're Griffin Newman and David Sands Of course, everyone knows, of course Directors of massive success early on in their careers

[00:02:04] And are given a series of Blank Checks make whatever crazy passion projects they want Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby Now this is a weird one because this is his biggest hit Yes, adjusted for inflation is the biggest hit

[00:02:17] And even on adjusted it's pretty close to being a big hit On adjusted I think only collateral is more Right, this was like the closest thing he had to like a real deal No asterisk

[00:02:26] People went to see it in the theaters and were like I saw that film I remember it It's kind of his most straightforward movie Sure But it comes after a really long gap in his filmography That's, I guess so, what is it four or five years?

[00:02:39] Six years maybe I think it's six or seven Yeah I guess Manhunter is 1986 Yeah, and this is 92 or 93 I think this is 92 Yeah So it comes after a long gap And I think he'd gone back to television That's what's crazy He made LA takedown

[00:02:56] And he made a little show called Miami Fight Oh really? Wait, it's that late in the 80s? Yeah, right, okay Yeah, that's the big thing is like here's this guy who's in TV And the guy we're talking of course is Michael Mann

[00:03:09] The mini series is called The Cast of the Potheakins Right A.K. Michael Mann's Blaming But he starts out on TV He gets out of the TV ghetto Which always there was this real grand day line You can't cross it so tough to go from TV to movies

[00:03:23] He does it He makes three movies They're well reviewed or at least the third are All three underperform And then he's like cool back to TV Then makes this like culture-divining show Does a bunch of other TV stuff And then comes back with a historical epic

[00:03:41] Starring the world's most intense actor Totally His only sort of like classic movie star action hero role Here's a question about that What was Daniel Day-Lewis to the public at that point? Obviously he'd been in my beautiful laundry But was he like an arty British guy?

[00:03:58] He won the Oscar This is his first movie after winning the Oscar This is his immediate My Left Foot follow up I mean immediate being three years later But he didn't do a lot Yeah, you know he was He took his time Oh did someone just Hi Ben

[00:04:11] Oh my god what a twist standing outside our window Glad he's alive Let's clarify, not in the studio Because who's Manning the Ones and Zeroes of course Is producer Rachel Because Ben didn't show But now he's shown Ben didn't show and let's check the old clock

[00:04:24] Clockaroo, 48 minutes late 49, it just hit 49 And he's flashed double-piece signs While wearing a jacket around his We have this very professional podcast for our podcast We are shambles today Very professional podcast And of course our guest who spoke before she was introduced

[00:04:42] Which is exactly what we want on this show Is the great Dana Stevens Hello Hi Dana, thanks for coming Thank you Thank you for being here As a witness to the cast of the Pothekins Yes, he had said that he hated being in period stuff

[00:04:58] Obviously he'd done like Room with a View He's so good in Room with a View playing like a total prig Is Age of Innocence after this? Yeah Age of Innocence is the next year And he's done But that's with Marty Right

[00:05:10] Unbearable lightness of being is like him doing a more modern thing That's period and that's you know a Tony Right It's more recent period Oh, oh, oh, oh, lemonade down? Lemonade up That's a Tony novel adaptation right Like I mean even though it's very sexy

[00:05:27] So are you saying this is in line with what you would have thought DDL would choose during this time? Well this isn't a shiit Like it's a novel, it's a famous old novel It's a period movie but also it's like he's shirtless He was playing more posh people

[00:05:39] He was playing more intellectual people But this is definitely also I mean in my left foot Which was his last big role There was all the talk of like oh he's so method And he was like Never got out of the chair

[00:05:49] And this too it's like oh he went and he lived in the woods And you know he became one with nature Right Like the myth of Daniel Day-Lewis is happening right now But it is in service of a more conventional movie star role You know?

[00:06:06] I mean you can tell how intense he is in this movie But it's also the kind of role that like Mel Gibson Could have done a shallow version of You know? He could have just done a surface version of this guy Walking in here Uh huh

[00:06:22] Really? Are you? Uh huh I don't know if you're You're late Hi Hey Dana Dana, nice to meet you Pleasure I love your show Oh thank you Don't trip on my thing We got it Hey Ben how are you? I'm bad Uh huh

[00:06:43] Are those your three vitamins in front of your computer? They're vitamins to keep me alive Cool Uh anyway sorry I was late Um I had a night we could get into it Probably shouldn't Nope Let's not do that Let's talk about the last of the Mohicans Sure

[00:06:59] I'm going to say Dana Very excited to have you on the show Yeah Long-ever do You're happy to be here Uh a thing we like doing on this show Is like completing groups Especially with like other movie podcasts You know? We want like the full crossover

[00:07:16] So you write for Slate You host or one of the hosts on the Pop Culture Gav Fest But you have a new podcast too And here's what I like about it New podcast but now retroactively We're going to finish the group Which group? Flashback Oh that's right

[00:07:32] Because we've had Cam on the show We've had Cam on the show Done So yes Cam Collins who's the critic for Vanity Fair And I have just started a new podcast on Slate That's called Flashback And it's an old movie podcast So essentially we're going to trade off

[00:07:45] And each time one or the other of us will choose Something from you know the golden Early age of cinema Which we're defining as essentially 1895 Through 1999 Until the turn of the century Because we want to have the freedom to jump around So we've already talked about

[00:08:01] We kicked off with talking about Gaslight The Q-Core version from 1924 Topical And then yeah we're trying We're trying to choose stuff that has You know has some hold on the present day For whatever reason Then we talked about Wanda Which was fantastic

[00:08:15] The Barbara Loden movie from 1970 I believe And the next choice What would you have to do that We talked about Three Ases of Condor Which was super fun I love that movie I feel like that's a director that you guys should do Is it P'Kool?

[00:08:27] Wait who directed P'Kool? Uh... Is it Pollock or? It's Pollock I thought it was McG I would love to do Pollock He's very amused with himself He's got a very robust filmography I mean he made a lot of movies But I mean he made like Yeah he's a

[00:08:48] He worked in every genre He was one of those like Let me make a western That seems suitable to blank check No that's what we often like Like Ang Lee Someone we did Like he's like worked in any genre Like you know we like people who hop around

[00:09:00] But yeah so every two weeks If you want to subscribe to Slate Plus And the first two podcasts The first two episodes of that podcast are free And after that they're going to be For Slate Plus members only But it's so cheap to join

[00:09:10] You should join Slate Plus Is it how much of Slate Plus? It's $35 a year Oh that's not fair Yeah yeah it's like a dime a day Can I just say Sincerely I kind of like That everyone's just adopting plus Is the thing Plus

[00:09:22] I kind of like that people aren't coming up With crazy terminology And just like If you pay for the thing it's plus The only thing that annoys Would annoy me though Is if like You spent like three weeks Brainstorming a name

[00:09:31] And you came out of it with like I don't know blank check plus Like you know Right I mean we spent like Nine months brainstorming our name We probably should have just called it plus My pitch You just go Like it would be Blank check Yup

[00:09:45] Exclamation point as bonus Ben's just coming in like so hot To make up for the fact that he was there Burning I am I'm sorry Yes Hot Look at me Yup Super hot thank you Dana as a Kind of serve classic films And at some point

[00:10:00] I'm gonna hijack this podcast To be able to talk about Buster Keaton At some point Cause you're working on a Buster Keaton book right now Do a blank check on Buster Keaton Talk about all of this He was on a bracket Please I've been pushing Dana

[00:10:13] He's my guy I've been pushing really hard Once a year we have a March Madness Bracket So that fans can pick like Who we talk about next Yes And Keaton was on the bracket He was on the bracket Those Philistines They don't realize what they're missing They don't

[00:10:26] I forget who he lost to It was probably like Michael Bayer So they can't look I forget who knocked him out of there But yeah But if you do have any listeners Who are Keaton fans They should know that I am writing a book on him right now

[00:10:36] And it's supposed to come out next year That's so awesome Not a biography But a sort of critical I don't know how to describe it Like an appreciation And your Twitter handle Is the high sign Which is one of my favorite shorts Of death The bit

[00:10:48] Like the shooting gallery thing Yep It's like Have you seen it? I am no Keaton expert I have seen like What everyone knows of Keaton You know like the very, very famous Keaton movies That would kick off your podcast If you did it Because that was his first

[00:11:01] Self-produced independent shorts Yes Not the first release But the first made We probably put all the shorts On Blank Check Plus Maybe behind the paywall And then we would do the main Features Everything to the Our hospitality Well no No because that gets into The MGM era

[00:11:17] My friend No our hospitality Is still his independent production In fact it was his first feature Oh you're right You know what Yes I was confusing it with No it was not his first feature It was his second feature What's the one I'm confusing

[00:11:27] I think you're confusing with Spite Marriage perhaps That's the one The one MGM I'd want to throw in Is Cameraman Because I love Cameraman Oh yeah I just saw that on a big screen At the San Francisco Silent Film Festival With a live orchestra It was absolutely dazzling

[00:11:38] You know I told Griff that you were doing this I knew he'd be hyped up about it This is another thing I like about silent films Go ahead You can see them a bunch of times With different scores And dramatically Why no sound They didn't have the technology

[00:11:54] Oh really No one talked back that man The real world quite The audio producer doesn't know why There wasn't sound Yeah come on man And that's the first mistake He's made all day Yeah But it's not like a cool thing Because we're so used to

[00:12:09] I mean Michael Mann is an exception Is because he's constantly fiddling With his movies and re-releasing them But so often we're used to like movies Being these very fixed things Sure And if you're watching like a Buster Keaton movie Depending on where you rent it from

[00:12:23] Or which distributor you're buying your disc from Or where you see it It could be a live orchestra It could be a pre-recorded soundtrack But it could be any number of soundtracks You know how there's like Roman statues I mean ancient statues And like busts and all

[00:12:37] And they were all colored Right And we don't know what the colors were Like we think of like Oh what Yeah you know you think of like Yeah Greek statues and Roman statues were painted And gilded They were all painted And gilded with gold instead Not only that

[00:12:49] When Notre Dame burned recently I learned that the sculptures on the front Of the cathedral originally painted and gilded What like the gargoyles? Yeah well the gargoyles are more recent But like the saints that are around the doors Like and we don't I mean we can sort of

[00:13:00] I think guess at what they might have looked like And what they might have looked like I think was like kind of What we would think of as really tacky Like lots of bright crazy colors Gilding Like you said all that stuff

[00:13:09] But we look at it and we're like Yeah ancient Rome was just white It was just alabaster Like that's all just because of how we Look at the things now What if David originally had like a ton of acne Yeah totally I mean that's later

[00:13:24] I don't think David was it Was David painted? Probably not because he was You know in that period they were imitating This so called classical purity Of the sculptures That still blows my mind I just want to imagine all those sculptures Looked like garbage pail kids cards

[00:13:37] Like when they were painted The details were just like Sweat marks and like boogers Stubble Yeah right like a little bandage Like an X It looked like when you doodled in your history books And would just add gross details Like an eye patch

[00:13:52] Oh god I love this episode already You could make him vaporwave too If you wanted to I'm just saying I'm too hot Alright Leave the studio Please Well this Okay so we'll go I'm sure we'll touch on Buster Keaton again

[00:14:06] I just wanted to stump a little bit here Because I want to sell Our listeners on the idea of him Being an interesting guy to cover And I would so come back and do any movie He's one of the first film authors right He was like

[00:14:19] Kind of inarguably Yes, especially because like as like Actor, writer, director, producer Everything Editor He edited his own movies too Yes And he is fascinating because by all accounts He was this guy who was like It's a living Like clock in clock out Well just born to it

[00:14:36] You know he was a vaudeville guy He grew up as a child star basically In vaudeville In a very violent family act Right like he didn't have any pretensions about it It was just like this is the job This is the trade

[00:14:49] Oh yeah and he hated being called an artist Or thought as an artist in any way And he was like exacting about doing things correctly Much like Michael Mann Much like Griffin Newman Much like Griffin Mann Yeah he rolls He's the number one guy Sure

[00:15:02] I hope your listeners enjoyed this hefty sidebar On Buster Keaton Oh this is nothing compared to the sidebar This is just filled up Buster But here's a question for you Dana have you seen any of the older versions Of last Mojito's? No and I just saw

[00:15:17] Calling this up on Amazon I saw that there's a silent version And so since I'm deep in silent film right now I want to watch it There's a 1920 I believe German version This has been made This novel Yes By James Fenn and Mark Cooper

[00:15:27] Has been made into so many movie and TV versions Yeah I watched about half of the silent one last night Really the Wallace Beery one When I couldn't sleep Yes Was it you? Yeah Oh so it wasn't a German it's an American movie That one's American

[00:15:38] And Wallace Beery is Nady Bumpo He's Hawkeye Wallace Beery is Magwa Yes Weird He's the bad guy Of course he's the villain Right It's not very good Sure And it's also one of those What is it like You know 70 minutes long or whatever right

[00:15:55] Like it's like a barrier bridge Yeah it's an hour ten I think But it's also It's just like Very kind of Stagy and overwrought Sure But And brown face aplenty I'm sure right Yeah Yeah I mean that stuff can be a little Tough to Yeah

[00:16:14] Just wave away with the old world Well it was the past You know it's still hard to watch It's also like one of the world's Worst transfers I've ever seen There's like a lot of What were you watching it on Amazon a company that's done a lot

[00:16:24] Of wrong things But they Company with many many mistakes But they You know Amazon can be a bit of a Repository for just like public domain Like sort of like sloppy work And so it looks like a digitized VHS And the intertitles are done in like comic Sans

[00:16:45] Like they're literally just like Typed on a black screen But it's not great but this is We were saying he wrote five of these Books over the course of several Decades and this was kind of like His tarzan this was like his Like money character Hawkeye

[00:17:03] Right this was his like big Franchise and much like Tarzan it falls into that category Of like what if there was like a White guy who kind of represented All the qualities of the Indigenous people but was You know white for us Yeah I was thinking about that

[00:17:17] With this character and you've Read the novel right You've read I read the first one I read it in I read some of he can In college Wow In an early American literature Class where we were reading Like Hawthorne, Melville I can't name your 19th century American authors

[00:17:33] And my professor Yeah Right totally He's part of the Hudson sort of School too right Sure Like kind of functioning with Also the like the artists the Painters I think so Too hot then Too hot I know stuff Coopers Town as I was Remarking to you guys

[00:17:51] His name after his dad Coopers Town New York I almost knocked over the Lemonade again it's going Over there now But my professor was obsessed with Him and was really trying to sell Us on the book when I remember In the lectures where he's like

[00:18:03] Don't you see you know that Thing where your professor knows That the whole class is kind of Like Yeah I've been that teacher And he's like writing quotes Out for us he's like come on Like this is so evocative And I just remember it being

[00:18:17] A major slog to read It's like truly It's not terrible or anything But it's very very flowery And old fashioned They weren't dime store novels But I feel like their legacy is Kind of like those were like Adventure books for people But they were enormously popular Incredibly popular

[00:18:32] Right And like At a time when American Literature was still this Like very early exciting thing Yeah But Mark Twain liked to Rag on them Did you write that too? Yeah He spent his whole life being Like you know yeah I like books except for Not Randolph's stuff

[00:18:47] Blast them oh heikens It's so funny because Actually when I was thinking About the very thing Griffin Just mentioned about the kind Of racial disguise Yeah Daniel DeLewis is in right The white guy raised by Mohicans Right I thought of Huckleberry Finn Right 100%

[00:19:01] Just this idea of sort of You're almost like Trojan Horsing in a person of color But you can't actually Make them the protagonist Yes That was not Mark Twain's Complaint He wrote a famous essay Called Fennimore Cooper's Literary Offenses Basically like a Wow Beef track

[00:19:15] Where he was saying Like I want to find In one place in Deer Slayer In the restricted space Of two thirds of a page Cooper has scored 114 offenses Against literary art Out of a possible 115 It breaks the record I mean let's say Mark Twain was not afraid to

[00:19:33] Drag people on the timeline Yeah he was right exactly He would There's the last samurai There's the film The Last Samurai Right Years after this one That's the other weird thing Is the like This is a film about The last person Representing this group It's a white person

[00:19:50] Who comes in In this movie that's not true I know it's not true But it is still a little bit What are you doing now What's been What did he find Bone I think Too hot Enough Enough Alright Alright Right and so I was worried

[00:20:05] In the last samurai Tom Cruise is kind of The last samurai And I remember the first time I saw this movie I was worried Like is this Is he like They know Is the last of the mohicans They're very clear Like no he's not No Russell Means

[00:20:19] Who we will get to Russell Means is always like Where's my white son He always makes sure to qualify Yeah If you see my white son Chingash Kuk is not his father In the book right It's like his adoptive brother Yeah let me

[00:20:33] And Unkas is sort of a different character From what I remember Chingash Kuk was his brother For some reason The relationship is qualified differently Because they got Russell Means Who's old enough to be Daniel Day-Lewis's father Yeah and I feel like audiences really

[00:20:49] Or at least they thought audiences Really were drawn to the sort of Like wise elder type character Right like that sort of like Gravitas of the chief It's a couple years after dances with Wolves So it was occurring to me Although I would need more

[00:21:05] Evidence to substantiate this That there was something Of a Native American craze Going on in pop culture That's a good point That's probably one reason that Studios are like Yeah go for it Like last of the mohicans It was also kind of the first time period

[00:21:18] Where they actually were casting Native Americans to play Native American Wolves 100% right Like close dancing with Wolves I mean people gave dance with Wolves Credit for that where they're like This is the first time they didn't just Like put Anthony Quinn in like Yeah or maybe cast like

[00:21:31] A Mexican actor Or like a Spanish actor Right I mean that's like famously The proud Native American With a single tier at the Recycling ad Right Was Italian Like it was always just like Wasn't that is that Chief Dan George? Am I wrong?

[00:21:47] There was a guy named Chief Dan George Who was sort of your go-to Indian and it turned out He was like a Jewish guy from Brooklyn Right and Sushin Littlefeather Was the same thing right Wasn't she Right yeah Like all your representatives Were always just like

[00:21:58] Here's someone who's quote unquote Sushin was not Am I wrong about this Am I slandering Sushin Littlefeather Let me find out I got her mom Was a French German in Dutch descent Her father It's one of those This thing Her father was Native American Okay

[00:22:16] He was an Apache But like she She barely knew him But this is obviously with Native American Heritage in general It's like It can be very touchy to talk about Like your blood relation to people Versus your tribe membership And all that stuff

[00:22:30] Yeah it's something that I feel like As two pale males and one pale female We don't have a lot to weigh in on there Yeah a little scumbum behind the porn But I would say that Yeah there's this tension about that In this movie

[00:22:40] And in Dances With Wolves as well Where it's like Yes finally they are casting Native Americans As Native Americans At the same time There's a real They're in supporting roles And they're often playing these archetypes Right Totally And also like those actors Are gonna play your

[00:22:58] Native American guy for 30 years Like West 2D like Graham Green will start here He's like oh there he is Right you know Dances With Wolves West 2D was in Dances With Wolves He was She has a small role West 2D being the guy who played Magua

[00:23:11] But Dances With Wolves kind of launches both of them And West 2D has this great career But then it's like I think of West 2D as the only Native American actor Who like led a movie Yes You know like Geronimo that like He's like on the poster

[00:23:25] Even Hostiles he was on the poster Above the title He's above the title You know he's one of the few Where he's not playing the You know supporting role That's all wise or all Tosser all way I went down a 90s western rabbit hole last night

[00:23:39] Because I was trying to trace the time line Of this sort of boom Right because with Dances With Wolves It wasn't like oh you're making a Native American It was like you're making a western Those things are No one makes western When they were making it

[00:23:49] People called it Kevin's Gate And they were like This is the greatest Most disastrous vanity project In a decade It's gonna bomb so hard This guy's overreaching Go back to the baseball field costner And then it's like this Massive success and it wins all the Oscars

[00:24:06] And then you have like Unforgiven wins again a couple years later That's right this year I believe It's very weird to have like two westerns Win best picture in such quick succession In a time period where the westerns Had seen dead for a while

[00:24:22] And then there is this 90s boom And Dances With Wolves gets credit For being the first time that it was like We're gonna cast Native Americans And we're gonna be culturally respectful And we're gonna try to like do this right Even if the movie's about the white guy

[00:24:33] Who's the best at everything Right Like that was like a shift And they were in that sort of boom All the sort of lesser films that come out of it Walter Hill's Geronimo I was on that Wikipedia page And they were saying that the studio

[00:24:46] Was fighting him so hard to be like You got a green light if you like Caskey for Sutherland and like Payne-Himbrough And Walter Hill was like We can't do that What do you do Right that's crazy Look at the fucking calendar We can't do that

[00:24:59] And it was like such a battle To get West duty to play The title role in the film And then the movie bomb But it is that kind of crazy thing Where it's like he's in the new world And in new world he isn't like

[00:25:11] Any super significant part You know he's in a lot of the movie But he's not like you know Pocahontas' father Right He's not the chief You know He's one of these guys where like He does tons of work But anytime there's any Native American film

[00:25:27] They have to bring him in Because it's sort of like I think he does a lot of like Consultant work I think he like coaches A lot of the other actors too I mean he's a fascinating guy He's got one of the great faces

[00:25:38] In the history of movies He's got an incredible face Especially in this And his voice is incredible Yeah Dana do you want to weigh in on West duty? I mean I was just going to move to Russell Means for a second Yes okay you want to talk Means

[00:25:47] And say I was just fascinated to see That this was Russell Means' first movie I mean I just sort of feel like Throughout the 90s Russell Means was just the face Of Native America in movies And he had never acted before And he has a huge role

[00:25:59] He was known as an Indian activist You know really he was part of The American Indian movement right? Yeah Aim And actually was quite controversial Within that movement And led this splinter group Where then Aim later was issuing Press releases at some point Saying don't listen to anything

[00:26:12] Russell Means says Because Russell Means had some Statement that he made I don't know if it was at a press conference Or what but when he did this Split off of the Aim movement He wanted to eradicate all treaties Ever made between any Native American tribe

[00:26:26] In the US Like from here on those are all Void And the rest of the Aim people Are saying wait, wait, wait a second We need somewhere to negotiate Right Anyway so he's known for being This kind of controversial And occasionally violent He spent time in jail

[00:26:38] Kind of figure They take over Alcatraz at one point Like they would do all these sort of occupations Yeah there's a regular occupation I think it still happens on Thanksgiving day That tribes take over Alcatraz They seize the Mayflower A replica of the Mayflower

[00:26:50] I'm just sort of looking at his To me that's an incredible career arc Right I mean he's I don't know quite how old he is When he's Now No no when he was He was born in 1929 Right in 2012 I think But when he started in this movie

[00:27:02] He had to be in his 40s Yeah like Well if he was born in 39 He would have been like Over 50 Oh yeah he's my dad's age right But that's like the Michael Mann thing Is like Dennis Farina was just An ex cop

[00:27:14] Who he like hired as a consultant You know And then had on set doing Like a small role And then he becomes like his muse Like Michael Mann so loves the people Who have just like lived in this fucking world You know

[00:27:27] And he like loves if he can find someone Who's like oh you're like an actual ex-con Like you're a thief, you're a cop You know If you listen to his director's commentaries Which are delightful It's always like him being like Yeah that guy's a cop

[00:27:39] I met him doing this And now you know like every little actor He's like yeah this guy did security For this gang so I hired him You know in this like great Chicago accent I just imagine that Michael Mann's like

[00:27:51] I don't care if Russell Means has never acted before I don't care if he's controversial The guy like walks the walk Like he spends all his time thinking about this stuff Yeah yeah and that really does come out I have to say

[00:28:01] And the performance like the parts are very underwritten He really doesn't get much to do But he brings a huge amount of I don't know what you call it Just hard one wisdom to do Yeah very similitude One of my favorite words I don't know

[00:28:14] Which I mean is like the key Michael Mann buzzword And what's weird about this movie Because it is his most kind of conventional film It's a pretty straightforward adventure film You know with his flourishes Yeah But the verse and millitude is the big Michael Mann thing

[00:28:29] At the time of its release They were like all the weapons are accurate Sure You know like we studied everything We made sure I mean just like years of research Which combined with Daniel Day Lewis This just must have been the most fucking intense Set in history

[00:28:46] Daniel Day Lewis learned how to make a canoe He like you know carried a long rifle all the time I mean you always wonder about these Method acting anecdotes Like come on what he brought the long rifle To like the cater table

[00:29:00] Like obviously Daniel Day Lewis kind of invented a lot of that So yeah But I think this is just a movie where those two guys Were in a competition for who could Find more hard one details Wait I have to read you this sentence from

[00:29:17] I have to read you this sentence from A A news week review of the time Contemporary with the movie Man and Day Lewis search for Hawkeye's character By spending a month in the forests of North Carolina Learning the skills and tools needed to survive

[00:29:28] In the 18th century wilderness Just imagine that month was it just the two of them Was it just like the two of them camping out with muskets It just sounds so un-gent Can you just imagine like Michael Mann And Daniel Day Lewis like lying on rocks

[00:29:42] In the middle of the night My dad was a grocer And Daniel Day Lewis is like my father Was poet laureate of Britain which he was I just see them like cleaning their long rifles As the craft table is being set up Somewhere in the distance

[00:29:57] This is something I want to read This is from the trivia page on IMDB Many long nights were filmed Doing the siege scenes, the big siege of Fort Loud speakers were installed all around the battlefield So that man could give directions to the whole crew

[00:30:10] And one night after like a long night Michael Mann started yelling What's that orange light? Turn it off Turn it off and the second 80 was like It's the sun The sun's rising And Michael Mann was so like Distracted What is this thing?

[00:30:28] I will say this is the movie where I totally Like you see why Michael Mann became so obsessed with Digital Because he's trying to make a movie that takes place So largely at night A lot of night stuff, especially in the first half

[00:30:41] A lot of night battles and it's so difficult to light this thing And he comes up with some clever solutions But you just imagine he's like I will gladly sacrifice a quote unquote prettiness In order to be able to make this just kind of look real

[00:30:56] But you don't think this movie looks pretty? I think it looks very pretty The scene tonight, it is the classic Like you kind of need total darkness To see everything right Like their faces as they're talking to each other

[00:31:10] What I find fascinating is this is such a pretty Sort of painterly movie That you could see him becoming a guy Who's all about that level of visual control And instead the second digital video arrives He's like cool I'll throw that away

[00:31:25] I'm like happy to make the movie look like shit If I can get everything in focus And be able to film with low light levels You know? Well it's a little bit, I mean it's Hawkeye like To use DV right? It's like he's moving stealthily through the forest

[00:31:39] Using the tools that he has It's like very practical He's one of those guys like David Lynch does the same thing where they're both like I love digital cameras, it's so fucking ugly They both go like I just love that it's like

[00:31:50] It's fucking ugly and it looks bad And you can take it anywhere and it doesn't take time And you can shoot anything You know they're just like get it done Get it done Like I'm more concerned about what's in the frame And I want to get that right

[00:32:03] And then I want to have the flexibility To film that however I want And improvise on that level And then you're saying about like the sun Like he just must have been so frustrated Waiting for the lighting setups Of like how do you make it look

[00:32:17] Bright enough to be able to capture the image on film In a night time battle scene without cheating You know? Like how do you get enough Fire in the background? Not to mention the cave right? The climax, the emotional climax of the movie Takes place in a cave

[00:32:33] Right My one semester of film school Is the last where they showed us this Like early 2000's Spanish Don Quixote movie Okay And there's a scene where Don Quixote and Cetropazza are like talking in the field And he's just like monologuing

[00:32:53] One of his, one of his crazy Quixote monologues And as they're talking for like 10 minutes The sun just goes down And by the end of the monologue I think it's like an unbroken two shot By the end of the monologue it's just pitch black

[00:33:08] Like you can barely see In this time period When the sun went out everything was just dark It's just completely dark You just couldn't see Like at night it was just like Well that's the end of being awake That's how people live, writers

[00:33:21] I guess I go to sleep now I think about this all the time When I think about very prolific writers From the past Electricity, you know Shakespeare, Emmanuel Kant or something like that Just like sitting there scratching it out By candlelight, like the dedication

[00:33:33] I feel like when we depict that act in like art Or like movies or TV or whatever It's like this romantic, it's a close It's a tight shot of them hunched over With the lamp and the candle And just scribbling

[00:33:48] And the thing you don't think about is just like Everything around them is just pitch black Like the light is only in such a small contained space And then once they're done The experience wouldn't have been like Ah the liquid lamp light pouring over me

[00:34:00] It would have been shit I can't see a goddamn thing And I need to finish Hamlet Right and when you like have to go to the bathroom You're like, oh get this fucking candle You know and then you have to like go through the hallway

[00:34:12] I really think about that Creaking floors and your wife's like Please just come to bed And you're like writing Romeo and Juliet Anne Hathaway his wife His wife Anne Hathaway Though I don't think they interacted a lot Tom Hardy and Anne Hathaway Have both made historical appearances

[00:34:28] In this podcast Of course Natty Bumpo as you say Is actually the name of the character Natty Bumpo was the name of the hero Of all the leather shocking tales But it's changed for the movie To the much more 90s friendly romantic name

[00:34:42] Nathaniel Poe which I think is a loss I mean who doesn't love the name Natty Bumpo Natty Bumpo is great I'm Natty Bumpo with his long flowing lock Isn't that the same name of Nick Cage and Connair You know he's something Poe And they have a similar hairstyle

[00:34:57] They do have a similar hairstyle That's what's weird about this movie It's like Cameron Poe It's his name in Connair I just feel like the whole way Daniel Day-Lewis is framed in this movie Is like you can tell how much Intensity he's putting into it

[00:35:10] And how much research he put into it But it's also like this is one kind of Beefcake performance Yeah where he's like shirtless And running and like you say Like Mel Gibson could've done this Or Kevin Costner Right and the fact that the film

[00:35:23] Is kind of painterly means that Like he kind of always looks like Legends of the Folly you know He's like lit beautifully And his hair is just like draping over his face He and Madeline Stowe both could be on the cover Of a bodice ripper paperback Absolutely

[00:35:38] Madeline Stowe is a very good fit Right and his role is mostly action Like it's not even just like Oh it's largely a physical performance His role is largely him running That's why I was thinking To the extent that he His character development

[00:35:54] All the work he did you know Imaginate with camping out With Michael Mann in North Carolina Etc. The place you see it is in his run It's like his run is so expressive And his like his neck is like jutting out Like he sort of hunched over

[00:36:06] You know Like he just looks like he's a weapon You know Sure He's always been a good actor Physically in terms of like Not being afraid of how he might look On screen as well Like he's very good at like Just screening and like you know

[00:36:20] Making funny faces and all that With his looks he's got some wiggle room there Yeah, a lot of wiggle room But that's the thing he said where he like He said that like early in his career He really resented his face Sure

[00:36:31] Because he was like I had this like nose That and like this profile That was well suited for like these very kind of Osteer Like dramas of manners And that he like wanted to break out of that But he's got such a great face The best

[00:36:46] He's like got an incredible face The best but he like I think he viewed it as an impediment Like he looked so much like a classical leading man Or you know what he likes is like playing Fucking like nightmare people Yeah, he likes playing these very cartoonish

[00:37:00] Creatures sometimes Like Bill the butcher is a very cartoonish creature Even what he's got a Daniel Plain view Right Right Well that's this other thing about him is like You've talked about how he's one of your favorite actors And how that's like kind of a lame answer

[00:37:16] What a hot take Right Like Daniel Day Lewis But the thing that I think people don't talk about Enough with him is that he's really fucking funny Dan is so funny Ben has close friends with Ben has this bit where he's friends with Daniel Day Lewis

[00:37:31] He calls him Dan Lewis I mean I just know him as Dan What do you think of Daniel Day Lewis, Dana? And he's very funny Like he seems so serious Especially when you're stitching shoes together He's really cracking some good things Don't talk leather to that boy

[00:37:46] He's going on and on He's a fashion cobble all day long with Dan I can't believe Ben is redeeming himself But I can't believe Ben is winning Dana over But here's the thing, you get him a couple beers in And he is just cracking jokes

[00:38:00] It's really a delight I wish more people knew that about Dan He's so proud of himself That's not funny I stopped Dana do you have a hot Daniel Day Lewis take Or do you just like

[00:38:14] I mean all I can say is that every time I see him now I'm just so sad that he if he's really done And he seems like the kind of guy who might be really done

[00:38:21] I mean he's famous for his sort of lack of vanity as an actor Right? As you were saying He doesn't even like being the handsome god-like profile that he has I can easily see him being somebody who just says No, I'm private life

[00:38:32] I'm cobbling with my director wife And it's all good And also you see Ben's influence in that Like once he announces his retirement Now he gets totally tatted up And shaved his head And wears black leather now Have you seen what he looks like now?

[00:38:47] I am so serious I'm gonna get this picture We're actually getting matching tattoos I mean see this is where the line between the bit And reality is getting blurred But somehow Daniel Day Lewis does now look like Ben is friends with him Ben's actually late because of him

[00:39:02] But he's just being modest about it Yeah, he looks like someone who works at like a bike store now You know what I mean? Like you know like where he's like Yeah, yeah let me grab that and sort of like lifts it up

[00:39:10] Oh my god can you imagine if he'd played a bike messenger He should! Like premium rush with Daniel Day Lewis But that's the thing like it feels like he's like Pointedly trying to sort of like burn down the house now

[00:39:20] You know and just be like I'm like fully putting to rest The classical Daniel Day Lewis Sort of austere image Right God I got a lot of... While you're searching can I tell my favorite story about him? Please, please You guys know that while performing Hamlet on stage

[00:39:35] He once broke down and couldn't go on And the show had to end Because essentially because he started kind of Morning his own father and freaking out on stage When he talked to the ghost You would see the ghost and like start sobbing right? I've read that story

[00:39:46] The story of it is incredible And that was very early in his career I mean he may not have even done a movie yet He was basically a stage actor This was, I think he had started doing films And it was his return to stage

[00:39:57] And he in the middle of the performance said I'm sorry I can't do this And then never has done stage since He hasn't done stage since Which is crazy Because I assume he's probably A fairly arresting presence on stage I would just hazard to guess

[00:40:11] Wow imagine being one of the people who got to see He's like saw him do Hamlet or whatever Whoa okay so I'm looking at a picture of the new DDL Shaved head, yeah Sleeve tattoos Yeah Oh he looks good though Oh man

[00:40:26] He looks so, I mean he looks so hot I saw him at the Angelica Oh you did? I did and it was one of those things where The first thing was just like Wow that's a very handsome man And then I realized that is Daniel Day-Lewis

[00:40:37] But he was head to toe in black What movie was he seeing? Ah fuck I was trying to figure it out at the time I need to search my tweet history to see But he was in the lobby He was walking past the ticket taker

[00:40:50] I was in the lobby enjoying a café And he was all black, tight black jeans Black t-shirt, black leather jacket Fine fill Black beanie I think he was with Rebecca Miller Rebecca Miller and full tatted sleeves What was he seeing? Okay that's what I'm gonna figure out

[00:41:09] Amazing grace How recently was this? This was like a year ago Okay This was like right after Phantom Thread When it was like such a big thing He was probably seeing the emoji movie Yeah right I mean he is

[00:41:21] I wonder if he should have turned down that role He is an emoji you know He can do, he can do them all He can do any emoji This scarcity effect we're talking about Like he won't do theater anymore Now he's not doing movies anymore You know

[00:41:32] He only has one podcast that he hosts Yeah no no go on, sorry I'm sorry Why in the Game of Thrones talkback Which means it's about to end Right right right Okay wait Don't do the spin off Just saw Dante Lewis walking the angelic address

[00:41:43] Entirely in black denim It was denim it wasn't leather This is April 7th, 2008 I'm gonna go to the box office Sorry to interrupt I'm gonna figure this out Alright Now I was just gonna say That making himself a scarce commodity Like that just makes Even retroactively right

[00:41:57] Seeing a 1992 movie he was in Makes his presence so precious Like there he is One of the moments that he was recorded on film And so that overlays this movie Which in many ways I think Is dated and doesn't stand up super well

[00:42:08] I kind of agree with you But seeing him in it absolutely magical And the action scenes Everything that has to do with action Whether it's jumping off a waterfall Burning down a fort All that stuff is incredible Yeah that's incredible It's also just kind of amazing

[00:42:19] As one of those like what if Like what if he had just like pursued this You know what if he had become Like an action epic guy Or that's a thing he could have done For a guy who's that intense And is that into preparation

[00:42:32] He could have just followed all that energy Into like the time period And the physical demands of the role And just become a guy who did like These massive you know He could have been a studio guy He generally just also This is his first ever studio movie

[00:42:45] Crazy And he generally didn't make a lot of studio movies Just period You know like I think something like The Age of Innocence That's a studio movie But like the you know the Irish movies He would make with Jim Sheridan Like in the name of the father

[00:42:57] Or the boxer right Those are more European And even like Gangs in New York I mean wasn't that That was a full Miramax movie right I think someone else had a piece of it Maybe You know he was He's yeah he's as close as you come to like

[00:43:13] An actor as Otor Even though he mostly worked with Big Otor directors Because his entire filmography is like You know this long right Like it's like 20 movies I had just seen You were never really here Yeah I can see him

[00:43:29] I've hypothesized that that's what he was going into There you go But also playing around that time Would have been like a fantastic woman Sure Lean on Pete He looked like he was dressed to see You were never really here He had his Wukin pant fun Yes

[00:43:43] Hobo assassin Yeah Alright so last of the Maheacans Like we said yeah his first studio movie Michael Mann's first film in six years He is More adapting the 1936 Film he said That's the weird thing is it's like this is like He making a movie

[00:44:03] Because of how much he liked this other movie When he was a kid Right Like this movie in it's weird way is kind of Like Peter Jackson's King Kong Where it's like here's this movie that had This big impression on me when I was a child

[00:44:15] And now I'm going to make the movie That's in my mind Like how I viewed it when I was little And that movie I think is the one That makes the change to have Hawkeye be this more like straightforward Romantic lead type

[00:44:28] And that's what that movie is credited There's no romance in the book, no? I don't know, no In the book also Which is another thing Has he already joined S.H.I.E.L.D. at this point Or is it all set before?

[00:44:41] In the book Cora Monroe is like Supposed to be have some kind of African descent Like there's the She's the sort of the classic Like you know quote unquote dark lady Which Madeline Stowe is quite the opposite Right they Question about Madeline Stowe's character

[00:44:59] Is Madeline Stowe's general about the accent choices What's going on? I don't know Okay we can talk about the American accent Choices in a second But Madeline Stowe's character Cora is supposed to be British right? Yes I think she's supposed to be In the novel she's from like

[00:45:13] The Caribbean but like she's a An aristocrat she's a fancy British lady who grew up On some plantation Or estate or god knows what That's the idea But she and her sister are supposed to have been Brought over from England by their dad

[00:45:28] And she does talk at some point about living in Boston So maybe that's what messed up the accent I gotta say Madeline Stowe's voice is very In and out with the British Sounds It is I really like Madeline Stowe She's a weird career

[00:45:42] I was a little bit underwhelmed by her watching this I remember just always thinking she was just such a great beauty Incredible classic beauty like off of a cameo She's beautiful and she's got a lot of presence I don't think vocally she's like Particularly impressive

[00:45:54] She also just doesn't have a ton to do I mean Jody May has nothing to do except Sort of just look She barely has a wine And have that incredible moment at the end of the movie Can I just point out that that exact same thing happens

[00:46:06] In Birth of a Nation A young woman a young white woman Who is about to be abducted By a black man in that case Not a Native American chooses to jump off a cliff Instead I feel like a birth of a nation might be problematic

[00:46:20] You don't think that movie holds up I don't know I love it as a kid I have so much nostalgia for Birth of a Nation It's just one of those movies Only real 90s kids understand Alright, pack it in D.W. Griffith has cancelled Fully cancelled

[00:46:40] Yes, I agree with you that she is More striking in this movie To look at than she is Giving a Texture dimensional But it's also true she's not giving a ton to do She's not giving a ton to do She's just falling in love with Hawkeye like that

[00:46:59] Immediately The falling in love you only believe it Because of Daniel Day Lewis The music as well But do you find the music to be Smiting the viewer over the head In a 90s style It's heavy handed It's a great theme It's a very earwormy

[00:47:19] Skimp on laying it on I was googling and I couldn't find anyone else Putting this together But this theme is totally plagiarized It was a Scottish folk song No, they took it from the opening of the Doughboys Live episodes I'm okay Some people are gonna like that Joke

[00:47:39] It's not for everybody, it's for some people Dana, the show's like this a lot We have to stop being silly Producer comes in 45 minutes You're gonna talk Rebranding On time grave 2019 I agree with you The theme was not made for an Oscar

[00:47:59] The score was not made for an Oscar Which seems bizarre And maybe it was because it was Not original enough The main theme is taken from Another song Which is by some Gaelic songwriter Contemporary 90s Gaelic songwriter It's like an Eligible And it also was done by

[00:48:19] So it was like an Eligible And it also was two different composers Trevor Jones and who's the other one Randy Adelman But I think Trevor Jones died One of them died And the other one took over It was sort of like noted at the time

[00:48:35] As being this weird mishmash score Because it's like main theme It's a beautiful theme Oh, it's beautiful Come set me up Cinematography is the only nomination that's got Oscar wise Could that be true? No, it won an Oscar It won for best sound and that's it No cinematography

[00:48:57] That's weird Very good looking movie The sets and all that Did this come out in the spring? This film came out in September Late September So I don't know Prime Oscar time Michael Mann movies are usually ignored at The Oscars This one is just so Prestige

[00:49:21] But I guess it also was Like an action movie or something But for it to come in between Braveheart and Dancers with Wolves And all these other similar These big Rip snorting Period epics that the Oscars would fall for What did Wynn best picture that year? Unforgiven Year

[00:49:45] Malcolm X is one of the big movies In 92 at The Oscars Al Pacino wins for cent Of a woman that year Howard's End is that year Emma Thompson wins Marisa Tomei, good Oscars actually That's kind of a fun Oscar A river runs Through it one best cinematography

[00:50:05] Which is a movie that's like all cinematography Like I could barely tell you what happens in that movie But it looks good It's a river Yeah right Did you see this in theaters Dan or When do you remember first I must have, the only thing I remembered

[00:50:21] I had a jolting sense memory Of him jumping off the waterfall And of course the speech that he makes To Madeline Stowe before jumping off the waterfall Which is probably the most quoted Exerted in clips kind of line Stay alive Whatever occurs Is that what he says?

[00:50:39] That was all I remembered But yeah I think I must have Because yeah I mean I was A teenager, young adult And you go to the movies and see this that year for sure It's a very date movie kind of movie

[00:50:51] I don't think I went on a date to it But I imagine that a lot of people did Stay alive no matter what occurs He's got that Yankee voice He's got his own accent Let's go to those accents I just wonder at what point

[00:51:05] In their conversations about how A bizarrely imagined person White son of traders brought up by Mohicans who somehow is This like surpassingly incredible Soldier warrior But is allied with no one, how is he going to talk His language is this Absolutely uninflected Just plain old California

[00:51:25] What is that choice? I don't know it's a great question And it strikes me as something that Michael Mann Would care about It's weirdly the voice that's closest to His kind of Lincoln Yeah that kind of I remember an old mill I will come and find you

[00:51:43] You stay alive here But I feel like his Lincoln was more stylized Yes, his Lincoln's definitely more stylized And also he's talking about Tony Kushner dialogue That's like every word is kind of wonderful That movie is so languagey Clothed in immense power Now, now, now

[00:51:59] Whereas all the other Yankees Like the colonists But the guys who are like, hey now wait a second They've, I feel like they are making that effort To have that weird accent of the time Or at least a cadence Like a period cadence

[00:52:13] The movie version of it at the very It's like the American accent has not quite emerged yet But it's being formed Right, the sort of classic New Englander Kind of accent But his character, Daniel Day-Lewis could actually just be saying Like, I want a slushie You know

[00:52:29] He's completely modern in his Diction and articulation That's obviously a choice Right, and maybe it's just because he stands so Separately from everyone else anyway That he should just have a completely different cadence To everybody else I do think that's interesting thing

[00:52:45] I'm just thinking about what you said, Dana About this being like a big high school date movie I do feel like this used to be the thing Of like, oh you're like a teenager now You're going on dates You have to take them to like a serious moment

[00:52:57] Right, it's like Far and Away, Legends of the Fall All those early 90s movies with Marquis Eidols We know like Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt But their hair's longer They've got a fricking, you know, Bolo tie Or something's going on, right? A rough neck-rough

[00:53:11] And it's gonna be long It's gonna be about some period of history Big commercial plays And they'd like play in malls and teenagers would be like Well, I want to look sophisticated This is like mainstream sophistication Yeah And there was like enough action

[00:53:27] And there was like enough romance moments Enough romance Especially in this one, yeah It is kind of a good mix of the kind of Chick movie, Love Affair And the action scenes And like swoonie guys and pretty ladies And warriors It's great, I love it

[00:53:45] Guys' heart gets cut out I do love like the thing that I was most taken By in this movie Is that the quote unquote love scene Of her breathing Like it's a pretty uninterrupted shot Where you're seeing like his back And her over him

[00:54:03] And it's just kind of like You know implied foreplay Or what have you or just caressing Or canoodling or spooning or what have you And it's just a very long take Of her like breathing The exact thing that these kinds Of movies and especially Michael Mann movies

[00:54:19] Don't seem to Really focus on which are like Women enjoying themselves One exception to that Are the love scenes in Miami Vice The movie The only reason we know That Gong Li and Colin Farrell are into each other Is because they sit around breathing And looking beautiful

[00:54:39] They don't really say anything Or develop any kind of relationship It's animalistic Go fast Go to Cuba But like that section of the movie You can take your like this could be from like Planet Earth or something Like this is just like watching animal mating habits

[00:54:57] And the fact that it's like you don't even see his face Really it's just Her like I don't know Again I think the special effect of DDL really Helps there because I feel like with a different actor If Mel Gibson had done it or Brad Pitt or somebody

[00:55:09] I might be saying you know this relationship is really underwritten I don't see how these two are getting together But when you see that sort of like Liquid masculinity of Daniel D. Lewis Moving through the forest with his muskets You're gonna fall in love with me

[00:55:21] I mean it's that Paul of Tompkins stroke about shooting There will be blood where it's like there's a tiger on the set Like when he's like when he's on there It's like the most intense experience He feels like a wild animal or whatever

[00:55:31] Like you know like when you look at it I'm a just a animal He has a whole bit on one of his albums About because he's Because Magnolia is he It's very funny Magnolia He ended up not being him but he did the table read Right? Yes

[00:55:47] Because he's like friends with Paul Thomas Anderson Because right because Fiona Apple at the time And Amy Mann they were all performing at Largo Yeah it was that whole early 2000s Largo set Because of Kat Naswaltz and Magnolia Right all those people were like

[00:55:59] In it and then he brought him back for There will be blood He's in it They say I'm an oil man you would agree Or if I say I would Daniel D. Lewis screams in his face as he's walking out Essentially

[00:56:13] If you didn't know it was Paul of Tompkins I was like I was flipping out in the theater to my brother I was like gosh be off day And everyone's like shut up This is opening night if there will be blood But it was like that Opening monologue

[00:56:29] The first time he talks the whole movie Because that first 20 30 minute section is silent Right just hacking away When they jump to him and HW I have a real question How long did he drag himself Like Leg gets hurt he drags to go get

[00:56:45] The trade in the gold That's the beautiful thing about the movie People have said He's months go by between that Right that's like Quentin Tarantino's Whole take on the movie The master stroke of the film is that You see him crawling with the broken leg

[00:57:01] And then it jumps ahead and somehow He's survived From that point on you're like I have no idea what that guy had to do to survive But I understand what it turned him into And a similarly crazy jump happens When you do the jump forward in time

[00:57:15] Suddenly he's a tycoon living in a bowling alley House Wait what were we talking about Oh PFC just has like it's the most beautiful line Where he goes like you know so I worked Like a couple days on there will be blood And I was nervous because

[00:57:29] You would think that Donday Lewis is going to be really intense But what I was surprised to find out When I showed up on set was that He is actually the most intense person Who has ever existed That guy is so fucking intense It's very funny

[00:57:45] And he calls him a live tiger He's like there's an animal on this thing That's the big difference and you know Costner and or Gibson Or any of these guys could have done this role well But it would have been a lot more about the movie star

[00:57:57] Image and those guys knowing their angles Right And their persona, you know you think about The like Costner thing of like I'm not really going to do The Robin Hood accent I'm Kevin Costner I'm going to do it when I feel like it

[00:58:09] Whereas Donday Lewis is like so committed to the thing That you buy the romance a little more Because he's so in the movie As opposed to those guys who like Become the movie And he is also Even when he's playing monsters A kind of weirdly sensitive actor

[00:58:25] There's something Weirdly sensitive and vulnerable about Donday Lewis even when he's playing Horrible people Agreed? Yeah He's a very vulnerable actor He doesn't have a lot of vanity like Dandie was saying And that plays out Because the movie asks you to buy that they fall in love

[00:58:43] Because they are the stars of the movie Like they essentially go like well of course These are the two stars and they're very good looking So they're in love right Like how quickly he goes Like there's that scene Where he's like I'm staying here

[00:58:57] And they're like oh you must be staying here For something we're in a polka dot Address or whatever you know they make their like And in any other movie you'd expect him to be like That's not why I'm staying here it's nobility

[00:59:07] It's commitment to the cause shut the fuck up Right and instead he's like Yeah that's why I'm staying here Yeah I saw like I'm a Xorias Right and so then I was like So now there's gonna be like 40 minutes of him

[00:59:19] Protecting her not knowing how to tell her How he feels And so the next scene he just walks in And they're like we're doing this And they just kinda look at each other And then just breathe for two minutes I mean that's the

[00:59:33] That's the end of the first act There's two acts to this movie basically Like the first part is like all politics And all like me opening my computer And being like what was the French Ninthian War again and like what's going on here

[00:59:45] Like who are all these people And Michael Manby like you're either gonna figure it out Or you won't I don't care The way that people talk about like People who don't like sci-fi films And they're like I just don't know what they're talking about

[00:59:57] I can't engage with any of this stuff I never had that problem with sci-fi films because I'm like I know none of this is real and none of it matters So there's nothing I'm supposed to be knowing And then this is one of those Wikipedia movies

[01:00:07] Where I'm like what am I supposed to know at this point Like how much is this like He'll give me that information later and how much Of this is like I'm supposed to have read the book Before I sat down you know

[01:00:17] But very early on I would say Around the time that you realize that Wes Doody's character is a double agent You just kind of don't care anymore Because you're just writing the kind of Events of suspense and feeling That's what I do I just sort of even I

[01:00:31] Who am like more of a history nerd than you I think Like I give myself a Like look there's English and there's French And I guess there's American There's a million different native tribes That are sort of being played off each other By the colonial powers And whatever

[01:00:47] And it helps keep it, when you say that way You know that helps keep this from being A really retro Kind of Cowboys and Indians movie These conflicting forces right It's Indians versus Indians and then like White people trying to manipulate those native groups

[01:01:01] The white people are bad in this movie The English are bad, the French are bad They're bad in kind of different ways We haven't even talked about our friend who ends up roasted And then shot on the Scaffold That guy has a

[01:01:15] Nasty exit considering that you think the movie's Going to end with like you know what Cora will end up with this guy because he's going to turn out to be Like look you can't really stay In the wild, you've got to go back to civilization

[01:01:25] Instead it's like no It's burnt up What does he say to Del De Lewis when he's walking by He has some incredible Final Oh you mean when he's being like dragged away Del De Lewis is like I told you me Offer me

[01:01:41] And he's like something like point taken Is that something like duly noted As he's like walking to be burned a lot That actually makes me respect that character more because that requires some chill He had some like an epic Like He says something like that Yeah

[01:01:57] It's a good exit for him. He's pretty boring until then But then I mean that seems great I mean he's needed in the movie though right You've got to have the kind of The bad white guy being dragged along to kind of

[01:02:07] Demonstrate that point of view throughout the movie It also I mean it's their introduction Is so funny because you open with like this Super intense action sequence where you don't know What's going on and then it turns out it's them hunting Right

[01:02:19] And then you go to like this very austere Like the two of them sitting under Like a canopy like drinking Or they're just like the Milva field Like drinking tea And he's like very casually proposing marriage To her and she's like I don't know You brah

[01:02:35] Yeah she's like I didn't know and he's like Just think about it and she's like okay I'm a nice guy and she's like the fuck you What are you talking about This is basically that actor Stephen Waddington who plays Heyward the only thing he'd done before this

[01:02:47] Is like a movie Like this is basically his first like mainstream role But then you have like Danny Day Going back to the house With Terry Kinney and everyone's Just sort of going like dude when are you Gonna like get a girlfriend Like come on take it easy

[01:03:03] And he's like I have no interest I protect the factions And this whole thing being established of just like The British and the Friends trying to win over the tribes But also offering no protection And there's this sort of self The survival Instincts of just like

[01:03:21] Why should we go fight your wars When you're not promising that Anyone could take care of our families, our homes Any of this It was like a proxy war You know there was the seven years war in Europe And this was America was like one

[01:03:35] Sort of dimension of that war And all for the Hudson River I mean it's kind of Well you didn't take a swim in it I swam in the Hudson River Yeah when? Upstate, not downstate In the summer Dana can you Just get us back on track please Please

[01:03:58] What else about this movie needs to be talked about That we haven't talked about waterfalls, crews Yeah the second half Once all the table Once the table is set Then the film does become this kind of dynamic Of just like he's trying to keep her alive

[01:04:12] And West Judy is trying to catch him Like there's a basic sort of chase mechanic If anyone talks to West Judy He's like I'm totally gonna kill Everyone and extinguish every last Flame of their family Can you remind me of his backstory

[01:04:26] The scene where we get to hear What's the reason that Magwa has this huge thing out For the dad of the two girls He hates Colonel Monroe Who he calls gray hair Specifically because that guy killed His family His family I think His whole family is gone

[01:04:46] The idea that there was some It's revenge At one point the Huron Were attacked by the Mohawks And he Was punished by Colonel Monroe For drinking whiskey And whipped and things like that There's all this enmity And by the time he gets back To his Huron tribe

[01:05:08] He's like married someone else That's the thing he sort of ends on Which we're supposed to be like I'm sorry I already heard that So I'm totally gonna eat his heart And kill all his children And it's this thing that Sort of gets called out where it's like

[01:05:24] He sort of got warped and converted Partially By the Europeans Well right in that big pivotal scene That's Hawkeye's argument He's kind of stuck in between two zones now He's adopted certain characteristics Of the Colonials but he's still So protective of his own identity

[01:05:42] That he's just kind of like Fuck everything, fuck everyone Kill them all, cut their hearts out In the book as we were discussing There is a pivotal fight scene Where Hawkeye wears a bear Outfit Like the skin of a bear And wrestles with Magwa That sounds cool

[01:06:02] It's too bad they decided to leave it out The bear suit is something I would like to see Sounds pretty great The classic here There they are It's in the cave So it was an illustration from the original book And it just looks like a bear

[01:06:18] It's not like he's got a pelt cloaked over I believe it's how Hawkeye sneaks in Like it's sort of his stealth Suit Yeah it does just look like a bear Here's the thing that I've been thinking about Paul Thomas Anderson He's a really good guy

[01:06:34] I'm like do you believe he's really gonna retire Like what do you think about this He was like look I'll say this The guy is very lazy Like he doesn't like working And I think it's cause he knows how much He puts into the work

[01:06:48] So he's very scared to do it Cause once he commits to something He's gonna go Well it's kind of like bipolar laziness He's either doing nothing or he's all out Right and he was like We keep in touch I call him, we email whatever

[01:07:04] And I said like would you want to try to do something with me And the whole picture phantom third was like We can write it together Like by Paul Thomas Anderson's admission He co-wrote the movie and just didn't want credit for it

[01:07:14] I remember reading about their text exchange Did you hear about this when they were naming the character They were texting each other in possible names for the character And then Daniel Day-Lewis was the one who texted Reynolds Woodcock And apparently Paul Thomas Anderson dissolved and laughed

[01:07:26] And he was like that's it The way phantom thread was like Conceived is the same way like this podcast was conceived Which is just like the two of us texting Bits to each other until we were like Should we do this? Yeah right, this is fun

[01:07:40] I think that this podcast is a similar artistic gift to the world The craftsmanship is pretty much on the same level On a pure technical level The text specs of this thing I mean Belgian royals are always coming into Listen to this podcast No question But that like

[01:07:56] A PTA kind of tricked him into doing the movie By like getting him so invested in the incubation of the thing That it was like oh now Now you gotta do it But he was like what do you think he's gonna do

[01:08:06] When he gives up and he's like I don't know He loves watching reality TV And he was like yeah he's just like On his couch all the time and he'll call me And just be like I just watched cat from hell Have you seen this thing

[01:08:18] I'd love to hang out with him I'd also be terrified to hang out with him Just try and understand what he's like I want to just know his media diet Like I want to know like his Dante Lewis playing Fortnite now

[01:08:30] Maybe he is. Does he have kids? He has kids right? He's got kids, yeah. His son's a rapper I think He's got a switch He's big on that Yeah he's into the Nintendo Switch He likes Lizzo right now Oh right, Lizzo Stan Yeah he's playing Mario Maker Yes

[01:08:48] How did we get on this you just wanted to talk about this I just wonder what he does with his days now I do too, well maybe he makes canoes Because he learned how to make a canoe in this movie He loves Jooling He's a mango guy

[01:09:00] He probably does love Jooling How old is he? 62 He looks so good I mean he has so much of his life ahead to do interesting stuff God bless him I just hope that one day Or maybe he texts Paul Thomas Anderson and he's like you know what

[01:09:16] What if we did a movie about A guy who lived in the Arctic or something I mean he's done six movies This millennium He has done six films since 2000 In total, which is pretty low For someone of his Satcher And they're long gapped

[01:09:36] There are a couple times where he did them close together A weird outlier is 9 9 is a weird movie Because it feels weird that he does 9 that quickly After there will be blood and I also would argue That's like it shows That's one of his worst performances

[01:09:50] Yeah and it's like the accent's bad Does he just need that much time? I completely blocked out that movie He made 9 I hated that movie It's a bad movie And with Rob Marshall He's working with Scorsese again He's working with this extremely Important director

[01:10:10] And it was now after Bardem Had won the Oscar And Bardem dropped out and they were like Bardem and it was like In a crazy turn of events Dale DeLewis is dropping into the film In active pre-production Like he signed on months before The film was starting production

[01:10:28] And he's a guy who's like I need three years in the woods and then I'll get back Right, he had to make 8.5 movies And he made a movie where He made a movie where he's like singing And dancing the whole time

[01:10:40] And where he's like sort of doing an Italian accent That must have been why he took it It's just been like this is a lark And it's so different from anything I've ever done But it's like so odd And then he doesn't do anything until Lincoln

[01:10:52] And he was like, I didn't want to do Lincoln Spielberg had to like beat me down Does he ever say he did want to do any of his movies? I think he wanted to do Gangs of New York Although that was a bit

[01:11:02] His other big gap because that was after the boxer He was like maybe I'm done The boxer was the one where he was like Maybe I'm retired That was a long gap And he did a couple years of like He did a Crucible, after this movie he does

[01:11:16] Age of Innocence in the name of the father The Crucible, the boxer And then that's his 90s Then he goes and makes some shoes Right, and then 2000s is Gangs of New York Then Jack and Rose Then there will be Blood There will be Blood, 9

[01:11:32] Lincoln and Phantom Thread It's quite a career So in the latter half of The Last of Mohicans I don't know they're running around and stuff It's just more action It becomes a chase movie, the politics go away After the scene It becomes personal

[01:11:48] The Englishman treats with the Frenchman Which is a good scene Where the Frenchman is like what can I say Sure we can have peace, okay Is that the translation scene? No, not the translation Remember when the English colonel and the French Colonel guy had like a parlay

[01:12:04] Over the siege Isn't that when West City kind of explains his back story What's your deal? That's when after that Where the Frenchman is like look I made peace I can't kill these guys anymore This is why I hate the grey hair

[01:12:16] And this is what I'm gonna do to him And the Frenchman is kind of like look If a bunch of Huron guys happen to attack Not my problem, but the French can't attack We struck a treaty over here Like we have a ceasefire or whatever

[01:12:28] It's a weird like enemy of my enemy as my friend movie Where everyone's working against their self-interest Cause then you have the scene where all the English are leaving the fort They're going to the other fort And they get like you know ambushed On both sides, the big

[01:12:40] That's a lot of running, that's when Daniel Day-Lewis Just sort of gets the girls out of there That's a great action scene, I just remember The column of English and then like that Long shot where you see them being savaged from both sides

[01:12:50] It makes you understand kind of Old warfare in a way that movies Don't often do And also right the sort of order The regiment of the English Like cutting through So useless in the guerrilla warfare And the nature right and these

[01:13:06] My favorite thing is when they're all firing their rifles And the plumes of smoke are coming out The smoke is everywhere And there's so many shots that you stop being able to see That's what I love too, that feels like such a Michael Man thing

[01:13:16] Where he'd be like You wouldn't be able to see anything almost immediately Cause the gunpowder would be so like And it would probably stink like you know It's like all that stuff But that constant critique that's being made of action sequences Which 99% of the time is true

[01:13:30] That you don't know what's going on It's so not true when Michael Man directs actions Right, right, total You know at that point is when he takes them to the To the waterfall And he gives the sort of like Don't die speech

[01:13:46] Before the speech there's a great waterfall moment that happens where They go over the smaller waterfall Remember? And the English guy doesn't think he's going to be able to do it And it's almost like this weird canoe empowerment moment Where he does manage to do it as well

[01:13:56] Oh okay, not so bad Like this is just kind of like a ride And then they get into the other waterfall and then it's like we're like No more waterfalls But even there you think there's going to be suspense about

[01:14:06] Are they going over the big waterfall instead they just port their canoes in two seconds Yeah, I don't know This is also like the anorondex baby This is a very, very pre-TLCM movie I ain't though chasing waterfalls for almost two hours straight They didn't Jesus Christ

[01:14:20] There was no warning to heat and Ben Mimes He was getting a bucket Come on Like Candace Lebronver again Like how are we doing that Magua chops out the guy's heart at that embassy Chops up And I love that he like

[01:14:38] He knocks the guy down and then they cut to this wider shot Where what he's doing is obscured by another Dead Englishman's body Right And you just see him like really digging in You don't see it

[01:14:50] And even when Hawkeye recounts it later he says I saw it from afar There's almost like this dignity given to that act But then they cut in close to this low angle And you're like oh no now we're seeing everything Here's a heart in his hand

[01:15:00] He's covered in blood I wonder if some of that was an economic decision Like we don't want to build an entire wax torso Maybe a ratings decision Is this an R or a PG-13 Like because this movie is never quite like No that's a good question

[01:15:14] So violent that it No it was not It was rated R, yeah G It's rated R This is also he does a lot of really Weird There's person POV Stuff in this movie In like coverage where a lot of the times Especially when there's gun fighting

[01:15:39] So often it's like Like the great train robbery Like straight into the lens The actor like looking down the barrel And pointing the gun And then there's one of the scenes Where like Dale Day Lewis and Madeline Stowe are kind of falling for each other

[01:15:53] And the way he breaks up the coverage is Dale Day Lewis is exclusively in profile And Madeline Stowe is like entirely head on Staring straight into the camera And it's like you're watching her Fall in love with him But it looks like you're seeing it

[01:16:07] Like she's falling in love with you And that just cuts out to Dale Day Lewis just being like Yup Profiles were important back then though Like you say like Madeline Stowe's got a face for a cameo Yeah she's got such an old fashioned face

[01:16:19] She's perfect for that kind of period She's like unbelievable eyes too Like incredible movie eyes But then Westerdee too has this like incredible profile Yeah he could be on a coin Dale Day Lewis is one of the greatest profiles ever Well, Daniel Day Lewis looks like

[01:16:33] The bridge of his nose is like you see He looks like the Muppet who's an eagle He has that like sort of he looks like a falcon Right and he's got those sort of lines The indents underneath the cheekbones You know where like his cheeks get sunken in

[01:16:45] He's like he does I mean it makes sense Like the Lincoln thing makes so much sense Because they both just have like such Strong faces Yeah And then so yes Magwar captures the ladies Takes them to his chief His satcham Who plays that guy actually

[01:17:07] Cause that guy's kind of good Dennis Banks I think Is his name, yes Another long time leader in AIM So again probably This was his first movie basically I wonder if he and Russell Means had some backstage tips About what AIM was supposed to be

[01:17:23] Yeah, you know Means and Eric Shraigu plays Uncus like they're in the movie a lot They don't have a ton to do exactly No But they're always sort of there I feel like cause there's the Uncus romance with Alice Is Mostly unspoken like it's mostly just a few

[01:17:41] Glances right? Like Yeah that's the B story Yeah it's very much the B story Neither of them talk much Combined they might have less than 10 lines of dialogue This could almost be a silent movie When you think about it

[01:17:55] You'd only need some titles in the first half to establish The political stuff, the second half is almost Could be dialogue free But that's what's so weird about Michael Mann being this guy Who's all about verse and millitude Picking a book that is so sort of pulpy

[01:18:07] And then not even adapting That book but like Remaking the pulpy movie he saw Based on it as a kid And he's just sort of making a more Intense version Like I remember there's a Roger Ebert Review that's really interesting where he was positive

[01:18:23] On the movie and Roger Ebert Was like a big Michael Mann fan But he was sort of saying like there's been so much Talk in the press about how much research They did and how historically Accurate it is and how they built all the weapons

[01:18:35] And how they hired like a thousand Native American actors Michael Mann And down day Lewis lived in a cave for four years And whatever and he's like This is like an old fashioned adventure movie Like it's very much like a popcorn Like sort of like kids story

[01:18:49] You know? And the way that period stuff looks Accurately researched But it's also in a very 90s way That you wouldn't see now it looks like everybody just walked out Of a costume shop Everyone's got beautiful makeup on too Right, right it's like very operatic

[01:19:05] In that sort of sense and like shiny in Hollywood It is weird that it's just like them Committing themselves like holy Towards like some like Adventure fiction Apparently I'm reading the Eber That Mann said that the 36 movie was his first Movie memory

[01:19:25] So I guess it was like a crucial movie But this is like the King Kong thing for me Like you watch that movie and it's like Peter Jackson Like pontificating for like four hours about King Kong and then people are like

[01:19:35] Do we watch the same? I don't think most of those scenes Are in that and this just feels like The same thing where like this must have been The formative thing for Michael Mann He has this movie playing in his head all the time

[01:19:45] And he's like I want to make the movie that's in my Head I think it works better for him than for Peter Jackson I don't think this movie stands up great But I like things about it Like Naomi Watts' performance And of course Andy Serkis incredible

[01:19:59] But in general I felt like that movie was a failure Did you like it too? I really adore Watts' performance in that though And that was in that era where you were like Could Watts be like our next Cape Lanchard like great leading way

[01:20:13] And then after that I feel like She kept getting sort of crappy roles You know what I mean? Like that's the moment for her Where you're like this person can do anything I remember her doing press where she was like She's acting against an apple

[01:20:25] Right you know like all that stuff I thought she was going to win the Oscar for that Well that's crazy That's the Reese Witherspoon Walk the Line year Which we agree that Reese Witherspoon is the business I love her in that movie I understand

[01:20:39] I know you're looking at movies for other films You know? But I think that performance is fine And when I saw Kinkong I was like This is like undeniable I do not like Kinkong Naomi Watts of it is undeniable You're going to watch it again some day

[01:20:55] I'm ready to do Peter Jackson I'm ready for him I fell out of love with him Now the Hollywood is gone where it's gone I am nostalgic for his Franchise-driven era You know what I mean? Like it was a better franchise driven era.

[01:21:09] Did you see that recent news nugget that Warner Brothers offered him Aquaman like five times? Yeah, they were like, they kept calling him and been like, it's, you've never heard of this guy, but he lives in the sea.

[01:21:19] And Peter Jackson's like, I told you I'm not doing Aquaman. Is that Aquaman nugget? But they just like kept on like, it's the other thing where like apparently they keep on offering these movies to like Zemeckis. Zemeckis, right.

[01:21:30] That all of these guys are just constantly like if we can get one of these dudes. Sure. Surely they'll knock it out of the park. Right. Don't they want to go back to make it like? I interviewed Zemeckis for Allied. Yeah.

[01:21:40] And he was like, I hate that shit. Yeah. Like because I was like, why did you make this movie? Right. And he was like, cause we don't make these movies anymore and I hate all this superhero garbage. Like he was very grumpy and very like straightforward about it.

[01:21:52] And I think Jackson like, I don't know, like he doesn't seem to have. Jackson I think is in that period of time. I'll do something if I want to do it. Right. Otherwise forget it. But he's so much more interested in like converting old footage. You know?

[01:22:06] Like a weird war documentary. I know you're interested. No, I really want to see it because the colorizing thing sounds fascinating. It's pretty fascinating. It didn't play on big screens long enough and I wanted to see it on this big screen.

[01:22:13] It had like a very much a special event kind of presentation. It'll show up. It'll roll out. Yeah. For like a night. It'll be like 10 AM at some theater. Yeah. It's cool. I saw it with like the 3D glasses and everything. Yeah. It was cool. Yeah.

[01:22:26] The big scene that I've already said that I love so much is at the end. Yes. Is him treating with his chief. You got Hawkeye there. He kind of just walks in. Hawkeye's movies just walks in and people keep like punching him and he's like whatever.

[01:22:37] Can I point out a thing about him walking in is that he finds them so quickly, right? Like after the huge romantic speech that everybody's like trembling in the cave. My girlfriend's objection was this too. She's like oh. He says however long it takes. And it seems like.

[01:22:49] I was like 10 minutes. In the movie time. I mean even in the real time of the movie's world. They couldn't have taken more than a day or two. It's like the next morning. No but he's been watching them. I mean he goes to the town. Yeah.

[01:22:58] It is set up in the movie because he's been watching them from the crow's nest where he was supposed to take the shot at Thor. Is that a Hawkeye joke? That's a Hawkeye joke. Oh yes. I think he just goes to the settlement. That's his move, right? Yeah.

[01:23:14] He's like I guess he'll take him there. Yes. Then he just goes there. He gets one punch. Right. Someone clubs him. He gets like cut in the chest. I love that when he's like walking in and people are hitting him and he's like okay.

[01:23:24] And then they're like keep hitting him. Why is he not not worse? Why is he not just murdered by mob violence at that moment? I don't know. I'm sure surprised that he's not coming in on the defensive.

[01:23:33] I think they expected a guy who has clearly broken so many rules at this point wouldn't like come in like fucking guns blazing. Hey, I'm just here to talk. Right. So they're testing him and they were like what if we hit him in the back of a head?

[01:23:48] And he doesn't respond. And he's like please don't. And then they just keep on attacking him until they finally sort of grab him. And you have this incredible scene that speaks to the sort of colonial mess of the Adirondack Mountains and like New York and America, right?

[01:24:03] Where some of the Native Americans like the Huron speak French and the Mohican speak English and the English speak French. And like the, you know, like where like everyone speaks and like there's not one common language.

[01:24:14] No, but he's like saying to the English guy is like you speak French, right? I don't speak Huron. So like you say this into French. Yeah. You use your second language to speak to them in their second language. And the whole argument is over.

[01:24:25] Like are we being too French? Right? Are we becoming like this? Hawkeye is like calling the Huron. The Huron, like Hawkeye saying to like Magua's being real French right now. He's being real colonial.

[01:24:37] He's which is funny that a white guy is the one to be like, hey bro, like I'm salt to the earth. You're the one who's like, you know, getting all like I'm going to wipe out my enemies, you know, but that's like the argument that's being had.

[01:24:51] You're right that the layers of languages are great in that scene. And he doesn't make man doesn't make too big a deal of it. He doesn't cut back and forth constantly between who's translating. You just hear this like web of sound.

[01:25:00] It's almost like the Sound Academy Award was earned just by that one scene. One that Oscar and the chief kind of tries to play Solomon. He's sort of like, all right, you can kill one daughter. Yeah. Right? And you marry them. The others everyone cool with that.

[01:25:17] And the guy can go back because I don't care about him. Yeah, you know, because he's he's sort of unrelated. And so then both men are like, no, I'll sacrifice myself for the lady and. What's his name? Waddington. That's the actor. Heyward.

[01:25:33] Heyward sort of as translator takes the. Look, I mean it works because up until like this point, you're just sort of like, why is this guy still in the movie? Dead way is a Baxter, you know, a Baxter. Yeah. And then like you're like, pretty cool move. Yeah.

[01:25:49] Rather than the other version of this in these stories, whereas the scorned guy turns. Evil right? Right. In a strange way you end up, even though that guy's been kind of a jerk and kind of dead weight the whole time narratively,

[01:26:00] you really feel for him when he's, you know, tied to the stake and burned alive. And then there's that incredible mercy long shot from DDL. It's really good. And you also get like. This movie so saves itself I think in the last 20 minutes. I like the movie.

[01:26:12] I like watching it. It's fun. But I agree with the guys that like it's sort of messy. It feels old fashioned, but then the ending is all these like kind of where you're like, oh, I forgot right. I forgot this happens and then right.

[01:26:23] Like the ending kind of just. Well, with the ending being from when he jumps off the waterfall on like that's sort of where I would clock it. And this also like this is when you get into the classic Michael Man territory,

[01:26:32] which is like I feel like so many of his movies come down to like, how do you walk away from this? Right. Like ending with some scene and the weight of that scene and just going like what are the characters do now? Right.

[01:26:44] How do they ever shake this off? You know, what was the other thing I was going to say? I don't know the big chase. I mean then it's just the chase. Yes. It's just uncus going after Jody May going after a like you forget your name Alice. Yeah.

[01:27:00] Right. Like that's the end right is the West Street. Oh, what I was gonna say is for Waddington, whatever his name is, it must be like so frustrating because at the beginning of the movie, it's like here's proper proposal. Look at that. Here's your tea, nice table.

[01:27:16] So what do you think? And she's like, I don't know you well enough. Fucking come how much time and how much leg work do I have to put in there? And then like she's with Dale Day Lewis today and she's like,

[01:27:25] yeah, I'm pretty sure this is the guy. Right. Hawkeye or Naddy? He's like what this guy's been around like eight hours. Call me Mrs Bumpo. Yeah. Do you guys like the last fights? I don't know. I do. I mean it. Mia Uncus versus.

[01:27:42] I also, I just, I like how. I like how messy it gets. But I also, he does the weird thing. I mean you talk about the action being clean. It's also like the weird sparseness of it because it is still a time where

[01:28:00] there are like rules of conduct. Sure. So when you like cut out wide to like the side of the cliff and it's just like two guys kind of just like, right? Kind of wrestling. And everyone else is just kind of standing back watching.

[01:28:14] I have to point out that it also it's consciously or no, it harks back to the many, many action movies, superhero movies among them that end on top of a. Yes. Building right instead of being instead of duking it out on a

[01:28:25] skyscraper they're duking it out on this cliff. Right. And then like, yeah, Mission Impossible does this where they literally just go like let's just make it a cliff edge again and fall out. But it is, it's that like that trope of like,

[01:28:36] you know, you have to have your final fight at a great elevation so that you can kill off your bad guy. And it has to be man to man. Non gruesome way, but you know they're dead. The classic. Just push them off the right.

[01:28:47] Which seems like that's disappearing a bit more, right? People used to fall from high places a lot more often in movies. Yes. Disney exit too, you know, again, non-gory. And plus it's just a stunt that always looks good on a big screen is someone falling through the air.

[01:29:01] Black Panther, Black Panther, he just leaves him at the top of the waterfall. That's kind of an interesting twist of it. Well, but in, no, he knocks Black Panther off the waterfall. No, I'm saying the final moment. Spoilers for Black Panther. You mean the final moment? Yeah, sure.

[01:29:14] Yes. But when they're there at the waterfall and he's like, we can treat you and Michael B. Jordan's like, no, I'm cool. I don't want to like live in a cage. And then he just leaves them there like dead at the waterfall. Right.

[01:29:25] It's a nice, it's kind of nice. Good movie. He doesn't push them off a good movie. So do you guys, you guys find the scene where Alice kills herself to be a little problematic or? Because I really, that's like, I kind of love this.

[01:29:37] I kind of love it too. I mean in the world that the movie has set up, it makes complete sense. It's kind of the only choice, it sucks. Sure. It's the only choice she gets to make. Right. It's the only choice she can make with any autonomy at

[01:29:49] that moment in the film. And in a weird way, she's romantically joining Unka's at the bottom of the show. Of course. The other thing. It's very capital R romantic as an exit. But I also just love how West Judy plays it where

[01:29:59] he's looking at her with like basically baffleman. Like before she throws herself off her, he's like, you know, come on. Yeah. And then he kind of... That's such a great moment when he's just like motions over. Okay.

[01:30:11] And when she does it, he like plays like a weird sort of respect on his face. Like he doesn't change his face that much. But it is like where he's like, oh, I, right. There was like honor in what she did even though I don't,

[01:30:22] I never thought about her as anything, but like the seed of my hated, you know, colonial master, right? You know, I mean, Hawkeye knows better than anyone. Suicide is painless. It's mash. I had to get mash. Well, he is named after Hawkeye from these books. Oh really? Yes.

[01:30:40] That makes sense. So there you go. That is fascinating for some reason. I don't know why weird because his name is Benjamin Franklin in match. Benjamin Franklin Pierce. Yeah. Benjamin Franklin Pierce. Weird. That's like the weird and they call him Hawkeye. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:30:59] He's given the nickname from the character in Last of the Mohicans, the only book my old man ever read. Wow. Can I tell you some of the other names that Nathaniel Bumpo gets in these books? Please. They're amazing. Bumpo has gone by the ALS's straight tongue, the pigeon,

[01:31:14] the lap ear. After obtaining his first rifle, he gained the Sobracate Deer Slayer, which is the name of one of the books. Sure. The last one, right? And I think he's specifically known as Hawkeye and La Long Carabine, the long gun in The Last of the Mohicans.

[01:31:27] He's known as Pathfinder and the Pathfinder, and he is known throughout as Leather Stocking, which is the name of the whole series. Oh, and the Trapper. So those are all his epithets. Those are good names. A lot of epithets.

[01:31:37] I think half of those names were at Coachella last year, right? Leather Stocking. Yeah, Deer Slayer, certainly. I want people to call me straight tongue. But has he graduated to certain titles over the course of different minis? Yes. Such as The Pigeon. The Pigeon's good. Lapier.

[01:31:57] Why is he The Pigeon? The fart detective. You've got to read the whole series to see. Because it's like shitting on people's heads. And then the final fight is Hawkeye has to just stand over there because the final fight is his adoptive dad, right? Yeah.

[01:32:12] That is, you know, they kind of, they let the book plot take over, right? Like, you know, he's just going to watch. He's going to watch. At what point does the title get uttered? I am the last of the Mohicans. Isn't it? Like right at the end?

[01:32:24] The Pigeon, he's, yeah. I thought it was when they're in front of the cheese. I think it's when Uncus is still alive. Uncus is there when he says that. But there is this. Because I remember thinking that he couldn't be

[01:32:34] the last of the Mohicans at that moment because Uncus was still alive. But maybe I'm not remembering where he says it. Well, he gives this speech right at the end where he says to like the gods, like take my son and tell them there is all but one.

[01:32:45] I am the last of the Mohicans. His son is the last of the Mohicans. Like if he had lived. Right. Like the idea is that he could continue. Well, he can't though because there are no other Mohicans left for him to like there's no

[01:32:58] member of the Mohican tribe anymore. Right? So it would be an inter marriage or whatever. So what is the affect we're left to walk out at this movie with? I mean, it's got a big romantic Hollywood ending. And yet it's dark as hell. The world they're going to.

[01:33:10] It's like my sister just killed herself. My son has just been horribly slaughtered. 100%. And the world is on fire as one of Alice's only lines or no is that I forget one of the one maybe Madeleine Stowe says that. World's on fire. Like I never get bored.

[01:33:23] That's the final line. But like it's just like the ending of heat where it's like you got him and then like Al Pacino is like a shell of himself, you know what I mean? Like so many of these movies.

[01:33:31] It's the how do you walk away from this thing? Yes. How do you walk away from it? Right. You know, like most he it's the opposite of a happy ending. It's like the characters succeed and then you see collateral too. How thoroughly the events have broken them. Right?

[01:33:47] Because collateral the last shot success right? The last shot is Jamie Foxx holding Jada Pinkett Smith as they like stumble away. Like it's usually there are survivors. They're kind of the heroes. The fundamental one for me, the one I think of as

[01:33:59] like the perfect Michael Mann ending is the final shot of Miami Vice is just Jamie Foxx in the shower by himself. Right? And it's just no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The final shot of Miami Vice is Colin Farrell going into the hospital to see Jamie Foxx.

[01:34:13] The showers earlier. I promise. Weird. And just that whole end section of Miami Vice where it's like they've won also Jamie Foxx will never get over this. Yeah, right. Like like Naomi Harris isn't coming back and he's just like broken is such a weird way to end like

[01:34:29] here's your summer blockbuster based off a populist TV show. And I think that's like his takeaway is just like like these events like aren't clean things in people's lives. If event is big enough to warrant a movie, it's

[01:34:44] not the kind of thing that you can then pack away neatly and just put on a shelf and move on. Right? I mean, I guess in a way you could say that all those endings you're mentioning all the Michael Mann ending they bring back that line stay alive

[01:34:56] no matter what occurs. Right? I mean it's just about pure survival. That's the goal and they do survive. Right. And that's like the question he asked at the end of every movie is like so what does their life look like now? Yeah. Right.

[01:35:09] You know, it makes me think about sequels and how odd it was. And then you can questionably have a sequel. Second to last of the Machikans. Right, exactly. The first of the something else, right? Yeah. Or a prequel like there are still 10 more Machikans. No, definitely.

[01:35:22] It was a hit movie, right? And it's based on a series of books of the plus or right there. They would have announced this as a potential franchise star. Yeah and freaking, you know, give me an actor. Nicholas Holt would have played, you know,

[01:35:36] Captain whatever in a post-credit scene or whatever. Yeah, Jai Courtney would show up or whatever. Yeah. It would be like a Lord of, I mean, King Arthur would have read it. Cross over with Mandrake the magician. I mean, this is, I assume this book is so

[01:35:49] old that you could, I could do one today, right? It must be public domain. Like. We should add to the slate the Blank Shack pictures. Yeah, we're rebooting last of the Machikans. I'm sure that won't be problematic at all. Yeah. No, we have, we have a really sensitive

[01:36:00] actor in mind, culturally sensitive actor in mind to play Hawkeye. It's Ben Hosler. Yep. I think it would be good. Let's play the box office game September 25th, 1992, Griffin. I know my way around a ditch. Yeah, I know. Griffin, you hear that? September. 25th. 1992.

[01:36:18] 1992, the last of the Machikans open to $10 million at the box office. Huge open. It's going to make 75. Right. Domestic. Which adjusted is like 150. 160. Yeah. So it was a hit. It was a big hit. Number two is a movie I have a lot of fondness for.

[01:36:36] Yeah, they don't make them like this anymore. I got an old guy. I couldn't even call it an action movie. An old guy crime thriller, but it's like a very light thriller. It's a light thriller. And it's not old guy. He's, you know, he's older. Like fifties? Yeah.

[01:36:56] Right. So he's like big actor, huge actor, huge ensemble, like so many famous people in this movie. Sneakers is it? Sneakers. Oh, sneakers. Phil Alden Robinson sneakers. Pass guest, a race and tour is favorite movie of all time. Can I just say the magazine that I

[01:37:13] work for Slate is so fond, editorialy fond of sneakers that they once devoted an entire issue to sneakers. It was just covering it from every possible angle. It's a great movie. Sneakers fucks really are. Is it about shoes or is it about like tiptoeing?

[01:37:27] It's about people who sneak. It's hacking. It's early hackers. It's early attacking. The cast, Robert Redford, Sidney Padier, Dan Akhrite, that's right. River Phoenix, David Shrethen, a blind David Shrethen, Mary McDonald. Yep. Ben Kingsley. Ben Kingsley. Yeah. You got them all. Race and Tour has a custom made

[01:37:50] spray painted sneakers denim jacket where he bought a denim jacket and had someone spray paint the poster from sneakers on the back. All right. What was it that directed sneakers? Phil Alden Robinson. It's his follow up to feel the dreams, which is another movie I like.

[01:38:05] And after that, he doesn't make a movie until he makes a Jack Ryan movie 10 years later. He makes The Summable Fears with Ben Affleck. Yeah. And then like 12 years after that, he made the Angry Span in Brooklyn, which like never came out. Like a Robin Williams movie. Yeah.

[01:38:23] And that's it. Like he's one of those guys where I couldn't even tell you how he works. Like does he just have the money and he doesn't care? I have no idea. I don't know how like how his career is. That's so weird. Yeah.

[01:38:34] I mean, I have to imagine Phil. That would be a good weekend at the movies. See last of the Mohicans and then maybe like sneak into the theater sneak into sneak into sneak into sneak into sneak into sneak into sneak into all of the movies in

[01:38:42] the top five are good. All right. So number three, it's a Disney comedy, but it's for it's like a PG 13 comedy with a huge star two huge stars. Proper Disney or like touchdown? Uh, good question. I actually think it's touchdown because it's a PG 13.

[01:38:58] Sort of a saucy aquatic comedy. That's a saucy aquatic comedy. Well, it's not. Yeah, it's touchdown. It's not splash. No. Aquatic. Yeah. It's wet. It's wet. Or is it a boat based? The boat movie. It's a boat. It's not Captain Ron. It's Captain Ron. It's Captain Ron.

[01:39:18] I was going to say speed two. Well, that's a little later. Speed two cruise control. That's coming up. Captain Ron part of Ben Hosley's porch classics series. You got Kurt Russell. You got Martin Short. Who else is Captain Ron? His global label VHS line.

[01:39:31] Uh, who's the I will I felt a whole of watching like the first 30 minutes of Captain Ron. It's on HBO. It was on it was on TV. I was watching it. Mary Kay place my girlfriend. Tc 14. Yeah. All right. Number three of the bar. Number four.

[01:39:49] Sorry is it's like a serious comedy. It's new this serious comedy. Yes. One. It's a comedy slash drama. A drama day. Yeah. From a big comedy star. I think he wrote. He may have directed. Is it Billy Crystal? Yes. Is it Mr. Saturday Night? You are on fire.

[01:40:10] Thank you. That's a movie. How do you hone that skill? Do you just sit around in like Peru's box office? I mean, first of all, I do. It's one of my favorite past. He genuinely does. I genuinely do. The second thing is my father and I would read

[01:40:26] the book of the box office top 10 Monday morning every week. Because I've now told the story like 17 times. My father loves sports and he loves sports scores and that was the ritual my father and my brother had together. And so that was the hey dad, let's

[01:40:40] make a lane where we can bond with each other. So like every box office from like 1996 on I remember viscerally reading through it with him. And now it's like still one of the main things we talk about. It's just like good hold on that.

[01:40:56] We have a great relationship. I'm on fire. Mr. Sarton writes a movie. I'm like fascinated by it too. But it's also one of those movies that I'm always like this is good. Like it has to be. And then you turn it on. You're like, right?

[01:41:08] No, no, it's not actually good. I remember seeing it. It's really savvy, right? It's very savvy. It's way too long. So long. It's it's Billy Crystal. You know what I mean? Like at the end of the day you're like, oh, is this like his darker movie?

[01:41:21] And you realize like he can't he can't not be a sap. Well, that's the problem is like that's just so part of him playing a guy who's playing an asshole. Is that he's a sap and an asshole. Like it feels like it should be his introspective movie.

[01:41:33] But then it's this weird note of like it's a guy who like got stuck in the middle. Like that's the whole take on the movie is like on the way to the top he got stuck in the middle. Right. And but then the movies about

[01:41:43] him sort of being reevaluated late in life. So there's this whole like corny angle to it. David Paymer like rules in it. I was just googling David Paymer saying because I was remembering how great the brother was and that was the whole thing was they were like

[01:41:54] this is Billy's big swing. This is his dances with wolves. Billy's going to get director picture screenplay actor. Everyone was like, hold the crystal. Give me Paymer. Like Paymer's just like in the pocket. Did he get nominated? No. Paymer was like the only nomination the movie got.

[01:42:11] I just remember watching it like fairly young on TV with my parents and I was like, is this good? Like it was like so it seems like stately. It's like an epic and itself important. And it's like clearly like expensive. And I was like, is this a good

[01:42:27] movie? And they were like, I don't know like not really. But we just like watch the whole thing on TV at my grandparents house. And I was like, when's this from? They were like two years ago. Like I don't I don't know what this like the deal with

[01:42:39] this thing is. It's it's like a weird like it goes back and forth between him as a bitter old man and like the he's got a old age old age makeup and all that weird fucking movie. And it's sort of based on an SNL skit. Sure.

[01:42:54] Is it did this character once as like just an old timey comedian, like a Borsch bell comedian. And then like post city slickers or whatever he was like I'm cashing in my check. I'm making this a two and a half hour fucking melodrama. What a weird guy.

[01:43:09] He's a weird guy. Like that's an example of I would love to do that as a one off episode. I don't want to direct it any other movies. There's the one there's the Paris one with Deborah Winger forget Paris. Yeah. And maybe he directed one other movie.

[01:43:23] He directed that TV movie about the Yankees. He was like was one of those guys or he like went to Yankees. You know, I don't know if you know this Bill Crystal used to go to the Yankees with his dad. Sunday Bill Crystal.

[01:43:34] He went to NYU for like film school and he was like I'm going to be a director that's what I want to be and then sort of fell into comedy and acting. So like when he got so big he was like well now I finally

[01:43:45] get to do what I always wanted to do direct and everyone was like no me gusta. Try again. Yeah. Number five just to finish is a movie we've covered on this very podcast a classic of 1992 so rooted in its era comedy a generational comedy

[01:44:05] and look at the mother he's nodding maybe not a great movie. I remember I made a good joke on this episode. Oh, I know a movie. What is it? I'm joking. I'm saying off of Ben making a good joke. I was going to recall that generational like intergenerational

[01:44:23] no like it's about a generation singles. Like it's a nice. I was going to say reality bites but that's a little bit later. Of course the same same exact same vibe. Yeah. Probably a better movie or are you a singles person or a reality bites person.

[01:44:36] I mean honestly I'm very Gen X and that I kind of sneered at them both at the time. They were trying to be like finally they're telling their own story generation X here for you on the big screen. And we're still doing it in

[01:44:47] that big dumb Gen X package from the New York Times magazine. I think probably rewatching them now I would probably prefer reality bites. I just love a Winona but but I don't think I was that big on either one. No, I am not big on either

[01:44:58] one either but I guess I'll take reality bites is a little more of a movie. I'll say that's the one singles is kind of just like it's kind of bullshit. I mean it's kind of fun but like it doesn't really amount to much.

[01:45:09] Reality bites is the one I think I prefer but after rewatching singles for this podcast I never want to watch reality bites again. Sure. Because I also thought I liked singles a lot. Yeah, yeah, abandoned Hope All-Yee who enter here like yeah right.

[01:45:20] Right, I went through my big Gen X period in 2003 and got really into both of those movies. Ben what's the great joke you made on the singles episode? He tries to kill himself on a suicide. That's not a totally different movie that's Elizabeth Town. That's a totally different

[01:45:37] movie. You thought singles had a suicide cycle in it? Yeah, that's when Cameron Crowe's lost the plot. That joke was worth reviving. It was, the suicide cycle. Have you seen Elizabeth Town Dana? No. At the beginning of the film Orlando Bloom is so despondent because of the

[01:45:56] failure of the shoe he designed. He designed a blank check sneaker. Yeah, he designed like the Edsel of sneakers. Yes. Like it was supposed to change the world. No soul. If only the film had that nuance of writing. Honestly, yeah. Yes. But he makes like the ishtar

[01:46:13] of sneakers and it blows up in his face and every front page of every newspaper is like can you believe the failure of the sneaker? And he goes home and he's got like an exercise bike and he takes a large kitchen knife, like a huge like sort

[01:46:29] of like chopping knife and duck tapes it to the handle of the exercise bike so that he can pedal the bike and then it will stab him the way the handles move back and forth. Here is the bad shoe. Swim cycle. Which is from our Wikipedia. Spasmotica.

[01:46:46] There it is. But so he attempts to kill himself. Is there ever any mockery of that suicide method in the movie? Absolutely not. He's alone in an apartment. He's played for serious. Yeah. Okay, I guess I got to do this. Orlando Bloom doing one of the

[01:47:01] worst American accents of all time. He sounds like Thomas the Chantanger. He sounds like a cartoon tugboat. He's like, okay, here we go. I guess I'm going to commit suicide. What's the most efficient method? Duck tape, two handle, pedals, test it out, gets

[01:47:16] ready, sits in the chair and then he gets the phone call from Judy Greer saying that his dad died. And then the movie is sometimes he got to go home to figure out where you've got. That movie is unconscionable. It remains the worst film we've

[01:47:26] ever discussed on this package. David, right. So David recently said he thinks it's the worst film we've discussed in four almost going on five years of doing this show. Yeah, yeah, four and a half years now. Because what the top three use are rather the bottom three right?

[01:47:42] Last Airbender. Sure. The Shyamalan. Yeah. Right. So Elizabeth Town. Yeah. And then did you open the book? No, no. You forget what the other one was now. It wasn't Spanglish. You offered Spanglish but that I'll do anything. Maybe. I don't remember. I don't remember. I'll do anything.

[01:48:02] I mean, I think Book of Henry is the worst one. All right. So that's it. We're done. That's it. Good episode guys. We did it. We did it. Right? That's it. Do I have to end every episode, Dana? Is that we decide whether we're done?

[01:48:17] Apology to this episode. To me, yes. And Griffin and Dana. Right. Let's Dana, let's plug your podcast again. Yeah, let's flashback before we fly out. Earlier in the episode when you were talking about flashback. Right. Yes. You can hear me on the podcast, which is a

[01:48:32] weekly culture podcast that is free. Hey, you also have a producer, Ben. Yes, we do. And I, Ben is very nice for friends. Absolutely. And I want to give him a shout out. All right. I will give him a high from the other Ben. Yeah.

[01:48:46] But their show is like, you know, it's like, I've been on their show and it's like they cut it together and it's so professional. And it's like, no, you're very professional. You're very professional. Clearly, I'm beeping. It's more hour style. It's, you know, we're just sort of,

[01:48:59] we're just sort of chat. It's like a jivelling of, like having a drink on the beach. It's so fun. Hey, put that poll quote on the poll quote got it. All right. But yes, a flashback to grab fest your book, but that's not tall

[01:49:13] and read my movie reviews on slate. If you so choose high sign on Twitter. You're one of the best writers out there eagerly looking forward to the Buster Keaton book and then hopefully, hopefully we'll have you back on the talk Buster Keaton at some point when

[01:49:27] I win this battle. Uh, sure. I'll vote in that bracket. Nice. Very nice. Yeah. I don't know. We can do is there one. Do you have a favorite? Is there one you would want to claim?

[01:49:38] I mean, when somebody's like one of your favorite artists, it kind of changes. You know what I mean? Uh, is there a movie I would claim? I might want to do a few shorts.

[01:49:47] I think what I would want to do is like lasso a few of my favorite shorts and talk about them because he was in a master of the two realer and nobody watches those movies anymore because they're shorts. You know, they don't fit into the feature program. Yes.

[01:49:59] Like one week is like as funny as yeah. I mean, one week is a masterpiece and absolute masterpiece. I just finished writing a chapter on it actually. The house, you know the house. I know the house. Yeah. Yes. Falls down. He's at the window. He's at the window.

[01:50:10] I know the big version of that gag, of course, is in steamboat bill junior. Right. He repeats. Oh yeah. It's an old vaudeville gag. He does it with our buckle too. Yeah. Do you know why they call him a buster? No.

[01:50:21] Because he used to just fall down a lot of baby. So he was just busting. And they are like always like good at praffles. They just like throw him around. Hey man. Yeah. You know, it was a different time.

[01:50:33] And then when he was like five or something, he must have been like, hey mom dad, two quick questions. One, why is my name buster? Two, why do all of my bones hurt? I used to babysit a kid called Buster who was named after Buster Keaton,

[01:50:44] which is an intense name to give a kid. If my daughter had been a boy, she was going to maybe be buster. We couldn't decide if it was too extreme or too, sounded too cute or something. But he's a true hero of mine and it's a wonderful name.

[01:50:55] He thought about naming a kid a kid buster. One of my 17 children will have some day. This kid was like seven years old and he was a cute little kid. So Buster was a fantastic name. I don't know how it's going to work when he's like 30.

[01:51:10] But he was an appropriate buster. You want to attach a really dignified middle name? Yeah, sure that they can maybe sub in if they need to, right? Like Buster Henry. Buster Rhymes. A buster or Rhymes. Yes. I know that. No, rapists. Come on, take this train.

[01:51:26] So this episode is dedicated to my future son, Buster Rhymes Newman. Dana, thank you for being here. Aw, thanks so much. It was a delight. And thanks to all of you for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe, go to Blankysoutread.com

[01:51:42] for some real nerdy shit and T-Pubble for some real nerdy shirts. And Blank Check bonus features maybe soon to be renamed Blank Check Plus on Patreon. Thanks to Infragudo for our social media. Thanks to Joe Bowen and Pat Rounds for artwork.

[01:51:58] Thanks to Lea Montgomery for our theme song. Next week, tune in for Heat. Yeah, next week's Heat is on with John Gabriel. That's right. That's right. Heat is on with one of the action boys himself, Interangina Lombardo. And as always,

[01:52:20] my favorite, my favorite scene in this movie is when Trace the Soul Stone. I don't know.