The Little Mermaid with Esther Zuckerman

[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know all you eat to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Up where they walk, up where they run, up where they stay all day in the sun

[00:00:30] I'm free, wish I could be part of their cast Thank you so much for that. You're welcome. That was wonderful. You're welcome. I thought it was great I almost I almost pulled it off. I lost it in the middle there and I pulled it back down

[00:00:54] Here's my question. Here's my question. We've got four more musicals on the horizon. Are you asking me if I'm going to do it all four times?

[00:01:07] I think you should. I think I probably will. Right? Why not? I think I probably will. Because Great Mouses Detective, I know it has songs but like

[00:01:17] You know, it's not the same thing. But like this you know we're now we're in Broadway musical level type, you know like there's the we got to do a musical opening

[00:01:26] Well also you have to remember at the time we're recording this the episode won't come out for another month or so but the time we're recording this I'm hot off of the success of

[00:01:36] The new Wato holiday parody song All I Wato for Life Day is you so I caught the bug again Not to give myself away. Well first of all I was like wondering what you were going to do and I feel stupid for not guessing that

[00:01:52] Part of their cast And second, you also sang the intro the last time I was on the main feed Oh that was the last time you were on the main feed was I'll do anything Yeah Look I mean That horrible horrible song

[00:02:10] I there are few things I love more than putting 10% of effort into rewriting words lyrics Like I love a good not even half-assed but like quarter-assed parody songwriting Of course this was for the George Lucas talk show Life Day holiday special I took while the show was going

[00:02:37] I took All I Want For Christmas is you and I did search and just replaced every instance of Christmas with Life Day And every instance of want with Wato and that was pretty much the end of my rewriting

[00:02:52] And it reminded me that it's the most fulfilling work in the world to do that lazy a job rewriting song lyrics Did you put out the Wato live album?

[00:03:04] No I never did because I never recorded it. I thought about doing it with the show but in my mind part of me wanted to re-record it I don't know, I mean the world ended I want to hear those songs again

[00:03:17] Yeah part of me wants to redo them were you at that show Esther? I was not. I was seeing Sixth the Musical that night and I'm very sorry No it's fine, it was the last comedy show but none of us could have known that at the time

[00:03:30] I thought you were going to do more Wato shows I thought so too we had a second one on the box yeah Right Yeah it was huge But you're right it brings me great joy to replace three words in a popular song

[00:03:44] I probably will continue doing it for the rest of this miniseries Please do, thank you very much I'm so excited to talk about this movie and introduce our guests But I guess you should introduce the show Oh I should introduce the show? Yeah I guess so

[00:04:03] Well this is Blank Shack with Griffin and David of course I'm Griffin Oh I'm David A little quicker on the response time there It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success What are you doing? You're hitting a fork on a tank Being Sebastian

[00:04:18] Oh folks he's being Sebastian This is going to be a fucking goofball David episode I love this movie It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their career

[00:04:31] And are given as your as a blank check to make whatever crazy passion products they want And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby I don't know Sometimes they bounce This is, I'm trying to decide here, is this clear? This one cleared Little mermaid cleared

[00:04:56] This one also had a bit of a tail you might say A little bit of a tail Here's the wild detail I just saw your art Ben Jesus Christ Ben has replaced his virtual background He's leaning back in his chair like eight feet away from the camera

[00:05:15] And he's got a background of like, what would I say? It's like a SoundCloud rapper version of Ariel Is that fair to say? 100% She's smoking a massive spliff She's smoking the weed And like is looking very cool I mean I was trying to find a virtual background

[00:05:36] I stumbled upon the fan art World of Ariel And it's fascinating, there's goth versions There's tattooed versions I mean all of it wildly inappropriate But yeah I just went for like a blunted Ariel What can I say? I like the way she said her name She's blunted alright

[00:06:00] I was just looking at stats and stuff before that episode started This movie made like 85 million in theaters first run And then by like two years later it had made a billion dollars Like all combined, all revenue streams Re-releases, video releases, all that Soundtrack sales, just like everything

[00:06:25] Like this movie, things directly tied to this movie Had within two years made a billion dollars for the studio There's like the line they casually throw out And waking Sleeping Beauty I think about all the time But I think it's pretty indisputable

[00:06:38] Especially up until that point in time Right, like up until the late 2000s When billion dollar movies first run Worldwide start becoming more of a thing This run of the Disney Renaissance movies The top tier films were the most profitable movies ever made

[00:06:54] Like they were up until that time All revenue streams combined the most profitable films ever made To be clear when it comes to the Little Mermaid That was mostly Sebastian's Calypso album Right, like that was the thing Which I owned on CD

[00:07:13] It was one of the first CDs I ever owned And I listen to it every day and it has a great cover If you can get it really if you really want by Jimmy Cliff But you know that David Sahnberg fucked him on the record deal

[00:07:24] Right, he like never made money off of it I know, that's why he did his follow up album Sebastian Partygrass Which is a weird pun Cause Mardi Gras is already like It's a party Like I don't know if you really need to plus No Mardi Gras No

[00:07:44] It's kind of a shame that Sebastian didn't do more movies The guy is so good At being in movies I think he was too busy being second in command Of an aquatic empire Which seems to be his job He's got the Genomo name problem

[00:08:01] It turns out you're accidentally a great movie star How much focus are you willing to put towards that? Not to get too into it But I was watching this Re-watching this for the millionth time With my boyfriend yesterday And he was like, okay stop Sorry, yes, Hummelbrack

[00:08:19] Okay stop, we have to discuss what the Wait, what role does Sebastian play In this Right, what is his formal Like if you think of like, is he a chief of staff? Is he the vice president? Also does that little seahorse have more power

[00:08:37] Or less power than Sebastian We gotta talk about the fucking seahorse It's a huge thing, it needs to be discussed I forget his name but he's got a name Yeah absolutely Harold, his name is Harold Because he's a herald Harold Of course I got it, holy shit

[00:08:55] It is funny like it's I don't know David, I feel like you've been watching Like shitty Fucking like middling Popcorn movies of the last ten years A lot in lockdown Right, right And so often we'll have these conversations Where you're like, I re-watched this movie

[00:09:13] From six years ago, it feels quaint now Like this thing that you and I are So quick to do Which is like, oh this movie that I think is garbage I now find somewhat nostalgic There's something there, right? Also because shit has gotten so bad

[00:09:28] That everything feels quaint now It's just like every passing year Last year's trash now looks like Some weird artisanal object The death spiral is so intense Right, I mean because I put The skeleton key which is like, I guess Like 15 years old but

[00:09:45] That's a movie I fall on Oh I kinda like that movie The Kate Hudson General Lens movie Right, I threw that on and I was like I mean this is basically a masterpiece Right, right This is terrific This is well paced Like this has a lot of atmosphere

[00:09:59] You know, like and I'm like No it's probably just a 7 out of 10 But it's good It's also reverse get out Whatever, we can talk about the skeleton key right now Someone posted on the subreddit recently That I've just genuinely turned Into Eli Wallach's character from the holiday

[00:10:18] That I now just go like Can you believe that this movie does this? Today this movie would do that Do you know what a meat cutie is? Yeah, it's all I do now I'm mourning the death of the thing I'm watching die right in front of me

[00:10:33] In real time And the funeral is being Released day and date on HBO Max Listen, this is a mass series on the films Of Musker and Clements It's called The Pottle Murkast And today we're talking about that movie Oh god Yeah, it was called Esther

[00:10:50] We have limited options What are you gonna call it? Treasure podcast? Hey, it is a treasure This podcast This podcast is a national treasure But then if we use that title Then what would we call our John Turdle Top miniseries?

[00:11:07] These are the tough choices we have to make We would call our John Turdle Top miniseries Pod Turdle Cast I don't know We'd go back to the Yeah, just put it in their name Pod Night Shama Cast Structure Listen, we got a really exciting guest today

[00:11:29] For a very particular reason I mean she's one of our favorite people But more importantly She's breaking a pattern today For the first time ever She's talking about a good movie On this podcast She had verbalized to both of us Separately and together

[00:11:46] That she would like to talk about a good movie someday Because she felt like she only gets to talk about Absolute garbage on this show Yeah, I would say Easily the best movie you've ever talked about On this show is Captain Marvel Which you did on the

[00:12:00] On the Patreon Which I did not like Flawed film at best A movie that none of us like But we were like trying to think who to have On this episode And we threw out a couple of names of like Our favorites, our regulars And I said

[00:12:14] David, let's ask Esther We'd never let her cover a good movie And then Esther responded to you And texted me independently Saying finally I get to cover A good movie on the show Esther Zuckerman Ladies and germs Ladies and crabs And what did you say to me

[00:12:36] We didn't know this But when I said I was very aware of the fact That you were overdue To be given a good movie What did you say Sits next to your desk, Esther A sketch of Flounder By Flounder's original artist That my parents got for me

[00:12:55] When I was a fairy little girl So that is literally to my left I can't, I don't know My left To my right is a poster From the Orpheum run Which was like the second Off-Broadway run Not the tiny, tiny run Of Little Shop of Forrests

[00:13:16] This movie is like very formative to me In many, many ways It's very important to me And I'm like very excited to talk about it I'm very excited for you to talk about it I feel like Esther We used to work together

[00:13:29] Esther, you work for Thrillist right now Obviously We should shout this out You wrote a book We should shout that out Right at the top Field guide to internet boyfriends But we when we work together That's what it's called right Did I nail it? Yeah I nailed it

[00:13:45] Thank you Thank you, my fellow Sherbly very happy But also when we work together We just would talk about Howard Ashman a lot I feel like Yeah And Mankin Mankin Ashman We would talk about Yeah You know That whole mythos A fair amount And this is the big

[00:14:07] You know Cinematic range Of Mankin Ashman Right Ashman I can get into this whole spiel now or later But like I have this sort of Personal connection that is both Right Real and also sort of like Invented in my head I think a little bit That I can

[00:14:25] I can hold off on it It's like No, I Longer story I think let's get into it I think I mean I sort of set this up In the great mass detective And I'm sure I'm going to keep on saying this

[00:14:36] Ad infinium for the rest of this mini series But this is kind of a weird one for us Because Muscle and Clowns are the least Autourist directors We've covered on this show Not just because there's two of them But also because there's such company men

[00:14:50] The Disney machinery was so huge This in Aladdin are so much Ashman Mankin movies You know Not that they're anonymous There are I'm sure Certain through lines We will be able to identify But all of their films Feel part of larger waves More than their own It's true

[00:15:10] It's true I mean Treasure Planet being the least I would imagine Yeah I was saying this to David It was really interesting re-watching this last night Because I feel like I've always watched it With an eye towards The storytelling and the songwriting And sort of thinking of knowing

[00:15:27] Knowing it was the Muscle and Clowns movie Like mini series And sort of thinking about it Like as a directorial effort Was like very interesting To me to like Think about While watching it It was a different way I had to watch it Incredibly directed

[00:15:49] And the choices that Sort of are born out of The like Ashman lyrics that then Clemens and Musker Capitalized on within the animation Really incredible when you Think about them But I just It's like a movie so embedded in my consciousness

[00:16:11] That I had never really thought about that before It's one of those movies we come across Every once in a while on the show Where it's hard to actually just Reset your brain and try to watch it Objectively You know Rather like divorced from Your history with it

[00:16:32] Its cultural reputation Its wrought both good and bad It's a very hard movie to just Sort of isolate and just watch as a film Yeah It is And I've literally Right, I've literally been watching it since I was born Right, that's the problem We're the exact age

[00:16:51] Like we're the generation that grew up with this Movie Like this was the one It was the tip of the spear In terms of the Disney renaissance And this is the one I probably rewatched the most Yeah I was trying to run it in my head

[00:17:09] Of this era I think it probably was It was these three I don't know I watched them all three all the time You know the Ashran Menkens They saladin and beauty and the beast I will say that like when I was Like I had

[00:17:23] This is like sort of embarrassing But we're all friends on Blank Check We're all friends Like I definitely in high school went through a phase Where I reverted back into Disney Like a lot My friends and I like instead of going to The formal dance when you're like

[00:17:41] Went to Disneyland because we were in LA And like during that period when I sort of was like It was both like reverting back into Disney And getting really into like the idea of the Ashran Menkens And what they were doing

[00:17:53] Like Little Merman is the one I watched So much and would just sort of like You know sing part of your world in the shower Be very much like you know Like I'm this rebellious like It connects to me too as like a rebellious teenage girl

[00:18:08] You know this is bullshit but Like that was one I definitely just sort of Came back to a lot Yeah I mean Lil Shabba Horrors is my single favorite musical Of all time And they're probably Not a week has gone by In the last 10 years at least

[00:18:27] That I have not sung one of those songs To myself in my bathroom And especially in quarantine It's been through the roof Like I've just taken this time to be like I'm not gonna learn how to make a fucking sourdough loaf

[00:18:41] I'm gonna try to perfect my suddenly seem more My shower suddenly seem more I guess Then just changed his Iconic into another tatted aerial Right it's This one I like She's got flounder She's got gauges in her She does have gauges

[00:19:03] She's got gauges and she's got tattoo sleeves But the tattoos are all little mermaid tattoos Like they're all Like an on your feet from the movie She tattooed flounder on herself Well of course they're besties You can't see it but there's an aerial

[00:19:20] Heart Eric but it's an actual heart Like it's intense It's very real list Gory heart It's like a Suicide girls burning angel aerial Right that's what we're looking at here Suicide girls Plenty more of that came from anyway Sorry Little shop of hearts

[00:19:43] We will cover on this podcast one day I'm gonna do Oz at some point I don't know if you're aware of this The podcast is co-hosted by Griffin Newman I think we're gonna cover Frank Oz at some point It's 12 movies They're mostly, I feel like they're all interesting

[00:20:00] It'd be great But this is the thing I wanted to say Esther Is like this is a little embarrassing I'm like do you know who the co-host of this show is? I know I don't know why I said that Also I like

[00:20:11] I don't know I feel like it's a weird thing For a teenage girl when you sort of like Dive back into that Like you know you revert back A little I think this happens to like a lot of teenage girls Like you were so overwhelmed

[00:20:23] By the world that you were Back into like talking to Disney stuff It was also the era where Hot topic in places were putting Like cutesy Disney things on T-shirts My driver's license picture Which is from when I was 15 Because I haven't gotten a new driver's license picture

[00:20:41] I'm wearing like a Bambi shirt But it looks like a band T-shirt But it has Bambi on it There's such a fascinating thing to me How like I feel the Disney Renaissance Coincides with this Gen X Like push back of like The Disney like the fucking

[00:20:57] Gaping mob this beast And they sand off all the rough Edges is this shit actually Like offensive And now Hot Topic is just Disney Hot Topic is like The alternative Disney store right Like it's just Edgy or Disney merchandise for older Kids that's all Hot Topic Is now

[00:21:19] Yeah And Rick and Morty and Mary Potter Yeah Harley Quinn But it went from being like oh Nightmare Before Christmas Has shit at Hot Topic because that's like The edgy Disney movie So now it's just like Hot Topic just sells Emperor's new groove shirts

[00:21:35] They're just a brand partner Like with very yeah But it's 75% Disney animation shit There's a lot of Disney I'm saying Stuff on here but this is the thing The little mermaid for us And it's different movies for different people Depending on when they grew up but like

[00:21:51] Right you love it when you're a child Your parents are like yeah it's Disney You know we'll put that Put you in front of the Disney And then as you're a teenager or whatever It's one of the first things that you reevaluate

[00:22:03] And you're like oh there's artistry here Like right like it's not just This is the thing I've loved since I was a kid But you think about it because It's so in your brain So that's part of the whole experience But it also If it has

[00:22:19] That frozen thing where it's just like And this is a better movie than Frozen But where it's just like The fucking The emotional core The wants, the needs of that character As best summarized in that one song Is just So fucking potent

[00:22:37] That like any like two year old Can see it and understand it Completely. There's just that weird Magic where you're like how is this so crystal clear To anyone of any age Where you're like I get it, I feel that That's just like the

[00:22:51] Ashtman idea like just to get into it Like that's what That's like what he did like there's that clip Of him at some sort of like Disney lecture That like has pushed around a lot Where he talks about like The idea of storytelling it's like every

[00:23:05] So like every show Is the song where the girl sits down On the tree stoop Tree stoop, is that a word? Yeah, tree stoop, sure. Stump, stump, that's it. It sounds like a tree stump and says It sounds like an artisanal stoop, yeah

[00:23:21] Right, right, she's got a tree stoop And says And like sings about what she wants And it's everything I think the example he uses Is you know my fair lady All I want is a room somewhere And Great song. I mean part of your world also

[00:23:39] Like to get it, like my other Favorite trivia about part of the world Is that like Jeffrey Katzenberg trying To cut it from the movie. Yeah, yeah it's like so wild. Which is like Which is his second best idea Next to Quibi. Right, yeah

[00:23:55] Well look, yeah, look Jeff's a great collaborator But it is Crazy every time you read and I do think It's partly that people love to Negate shit to use a word we were discussing You know years after the success

[00:24:07] But every time you read about any one of these movies Katzenberg is just this Assholes who wants to Fuck everything up But also it should be said like sometimes You know those Legends circulate and then you get back to Katzenberg Or other people and they're like

[00:24:23] That's kind of blown out of proportion It was mentioned offhand once But the part of their world thing he's like Yeah, no, I nearly cut that from the movie I adamantly felt it should not be in the film He just thought it was boring

[00:24:37] Kids were gonna sit down the hallway He thought kids were gonna fall asleep And I think like the other thing is A lot of the animators also I think Sort of agreed with him because they were Sort of so trained to be You know what are kids gonna

[00:24:51] Start like fidgeting It's slow on action, yes It's a quiet content I mean it's the greatest Disney song It is arguably the greatest Disney song Yeah, it's the best It's the platonic ideal Also Jeffrey wanted to turn The Little Mermaid into a Quibi

[00:25:09] Yeah he did, he wanted to turn into a Quibi It's worth noting that like This movie is 1989 It is the first fairy tale And the first princess Movie that Disney animation has done Since 1959 Sleeping Beauty Little mermaid, there's nothing in between Right cause Sleeping Beauty is the one

[00:25:32] That kind of scares them off of it We've done this too many times It's not clicking with boys We can't be defined by it Where they run away from it Which also rolls by the way Most incredible movie I think it's visually beautiful I find it kind of

[00:25:51] Cold emotionally But it's a little cold It's a little cold but it's so incredible There's just nothing From a design level I couldn't agree more But I think that was maybe part of the trepidation too Of those movies had less potential for comedy Were a little more arch

[00:26:11] Sleeping Beauty was seen as this Archie experimental version Of the model that they had already May be rung out dry I don't know, I just feel Now there's just the sort of The Disney princess thing And it's very easy to mush that continuum together

[00:26:31] But it's like, no those movies exist from The 30s to the late 50s And then don't exist at all In the 60s to 70s Until the tail end of the 80s It's really the 90s There's four or five of them Then they get scared off again about boys

[00:26:49] Not liking the movies They back off and then they've gone back To the princess well But it's like that scared off period was Like eight years versus Thirty years Frozen, right, as we say The death spiral, I think speed up But right, Frozen's the exact same thing

[00:27:06] Where after not doing it for a while They're like what if we did kind of a big Broadway musical based on a fairy tale About a princess and they put it out And they're like I don't think this is going to work And it conquers the earth Right

[00:27:19] And they're like oh shit The first Frozen trailer was Just Olaf I think Right, right, because they were like No one wants this princess shit And you didn't know that there was singing in it You didn't realize Frozen was I don't think I even fully realized

[00:27:35] How much Frozen was a musical Until I went to the screening and I sat down And I was like oh this is a musical I love this I was so jazzed on that movie Because I was just like oh They're back

[00:27:49] I'm with my brother Jamesy and we were like With the family for the holidays In the middle of Tennessee And it was like my dad was going to drive me To see a movie because when I'm Cooped up with my family somewhere outside

[00:28:01] Of the city they're like we have to drop him off For the theater or else he's just going to be unbearable Like it's one of those things where they're just like He's going to get so prickly if he doesn't

[00:28:09] See a movie at some point in the next three days So James was like What are you seeing? And I was like Frozen's the new Disney movie I'm like I'm sure I'll go see that with you And I think we're literally the only two people

[00:28:21] In the theater opening day at like 11am You know at like a Multiplex in Knoxville, Tennessee And when the song Starts at the beginning of the movie turns to me It's like oh this is like a real Disney movie Yeah 100% that's new and new

[00:28:37] It also speaking of the little mermaid Like it literally directly copies the little mermaid With the opening song being the sort of like Worker song like There's nothing fucking better than a Worker song It's so good It's so fucking good But for Frozen aside because right Frozen

[00:28:57] Is doing but like yes the little mermaid I think Clements and Musker obviously Ashwin and Menken are So crucial to it But they are Clements and Musker are the ones who are Advocating right there like We should you know we should This was a 30s idea

[00:29:13] Like Disney has always thought about Doing this fairy tale And never cracked it but why Wouldn't we do you know like we should We should do this. They were going to do an Omni Bus Hans Christian Anderson Movie at one point because Right a package film

[00:29:29] The first couple Disney films were so Expensive that then there was that scale Back period and he started doing more kind Of package movies like fun and fancy Free and make my music And they had this idea of like oh you could adapt

[00:29:41] Them and that was abandoned and then the idea Of doing a whole little mermaid movie Kind of persisted for a while But then independently You know fucking 60 years later He I forget if it's Musker or Clements I just get them to do it Clements finds the tale himself

[00:30:01] Right and writes it up for And presents it at the gong show Right at Katzenberg host that we talked about in the last episode It's the gong show era where they're so Desperate to try to revive their animation department That they'll have these weekly gong shows

[00:30:13] And it's like anyone can come in With any you know two minute Pitch on what could make a good Feature length animated film So he comes in with the book and they gong him because Of Splash They do They say like boo Splash just came out

[00:30:29] We just did it. Why would we make another Movie in the exact same model as the Film we made that was just successful What I don't know is why He then turned around and was like You know what actually write up a treatment

[00:30:41] Like for I don't know what changed His mind exactly maybe Clements just Bugged him but He did at some point Say like okay sure you know Like maybe that's a good idea Right and then separately with that Is I think it's I always get them

[00:30:59] Confused as well but it's the two guys A Shoemaker and the other guy Whose name I forgot as well last episode Who are the two guys they bring in from theater To sort of oversee the animation Department It's a Tom Shoemaker Peter Schneider

[00:31:17] Yes I think that's who it is Tom Shoemaker still run Disney Theatrical Yes he now runs yes the Disney Like stage He's the guy Peter Schneider sorry Peter Schneider is the other guy Shoemaker right he's the guy who's always at the Tonys he's got funny glasses

[00:31:37] You know but Schneider is the guy who's really running lead at this point He's the one who aggressively Pursues Menken and Ashman but not for little mermaid No no just generally like These are the types of guys we should have working on our movies Also it's not even

[00:31:53] Really Menken that's the thing Like it is Ashman who like Then is like I will bring Menken along Largely I'm pretty sure Yes Ashman because Ashman wrote little Shabba Fars and Ashman produces this Movie obviously So like Ashman was the sort of creative

[00:32:11] He's the right he wrote the book Yeah yeah And the lyrics yeah I'll tell my sort of personal Like please anecdote now That's like cause my so my like Connection to Howard Ashman is my So my parents Met working in New York theater

[00:32:31] They met at the impossible ragtime Theater and then they went to work at the WPA Which was the theater that Howard Ashman Started basically with Two other people Stuart White Stuart White and Kyle Renwick And my mom Was the Literary executive So she would like read scripts

[00:32:53] And the casting director and then my dad Would direct plays there And So they knew Howard my mom Cast My mom cast little shop of course The original production like so It's the coolest shit in the world So that was like So it's always been part of

[00:33:15] One of the things I The last things I did in the before Times was Kyle Renwick who founded Who founded the WPA With Howard Prior to COVID and My mom organized Memorial service for him At a theater in New York And Sarah

[00:33:35] Howard sister was one of the people That spoke it was also It was an amazing thing Alan Lincoln like saying To sort of close out the evening It was like this incredible sort of More than it was just this weird little Awesome It was this weird awesome theater

[00:33:53] And you know it's one of those things It's like I'm pretty obsessed With this like idea Of the WPA Because it wasn't you know it was little shop But it was also you know so many other Like steel magnolias Like my mom

[00:34:09] Also cast the original production of steel magnolias Yeah but that's not as cool come on No it's not as cool But it's like It's not as cool but I like it's this I don't know it's this part of like That I'm very proud of So when

[00:34:25] I was watching this stuff For the first time like Yeah like I knew Who I you know I think I knew who was behind The songs and but Basically the whole thing with Howard was that he He Did his I believe his first Show on Broadway smile with

[00:34:47] Marvin Hamlisch and Completely flopped And then that's when Disney came A Colin and they asked For him and then He brought make it along Right and smile was Sort of supposed to be like this Step up from The off-Broadway weirdness Into like the big leagues of Broadway

[00:35:09] And when that flopped I think there was That sort of desperation that A lot of times has inspired Historic work That's what we cover on this podcast where someone's like I don't know that thing didn't work so I guess I should try this and then they try something

[00:35:23] And change the world yeah Yes this slight strain The other thing right is that he did lyrics On a song in Oliver and Company Which I guess is just them Being like come like You know come play around And like that's the little spark Where they mention

[00:35:41] You know where I work on this like little Mermaid thing like and like What he is immediately interested in This was also I actually what I hadn't seen the Don Han documentary about Howard It's good it's really good It's really good I think it's terrific

[00:35:57] One of the things I didn't realize was He was working in Like he tried live action To before then like Apparently he wrote like He like sat down with Tina Turner And wrote like an idea For like a Tina Turner musical

[00:36:13] Like he did the Disney made up Don But like he was really drawn To this idea To the idea of animation because it is This sort of like unlimited capacity Like movie musicals weren't Working as well And so it was you know Live action movie musicals so like

[00:36:31] With animation you can do It you can go back to the well Yeah I mean it's Such a perfect confluence Of different elements And different people all Aligning at this one moment And it is Fascinating because like You know Tangled which I love Frozen, Moana like that

[00:36:55] New modern wave of The CGI You know Jennifer Lee Era Princess musical Revival Those movies are clearly Evolutions of this Era But these movies are so Different from the original Disney princess movies Right I mean like Little Mermaid Is so different from Sleeping Beauty

[00:37:21] And Snow White and Cinderella And that whole era There's such a seismic shift There's no comparison And the key to that shift is Broadway Is the influx of The people like Schneider and Shoemaker Bringing in people like Ashman and Menken And letting Broadway sensibility And to be like

[00:37:41] Let's say it also like letting very gay Sensibilities enter into these films That's part of it for sure That's true but it's the Broadway sensibility I think you're right Just in terms of the confidence To let the songs Drive this story entirely Versus those earlier Disney

[00:37:59] Movies we're talking about Where the songs are interludes You know they're nice things They keep the energy up and keep kids Invested But they don't I mean Peter Pan has A couple good songs Pinocchio has a couple good songs But they're not as crucial To the plot

[00:38:21] Let's go over there They feel closer to how classic Hollywood films Will have multiple songs without being musical When you wish upon a star Feels like Dean Martin singing My Rifle, My Pony in me In you know Rio Bravo It's like oh here's like a brief interlude

[00:38:37] Where a character sings a really good song That's gonna get nominated for an Oscar Whereas these are like It's the fundamentals of musical storytelling Where it's like a character sings When the emotion is so great Me or words wouldn't do You know you need the songs to advance

[00:38:53] The story Yes And yet This movie also does things where you're like It's crazy right? Like Ariel has one song Eric obviously doesn't sing at all There's multiple songs that are sung By anonymous cast members You know like I want to pull up your account here

[00:39:13] You did this the other night when you were watching the movie The stats are pretty incredible When you just sort of look at them as hard numbers Right Okay the thread starts with Scuttle is a good wingman Which of course is a great joke Because he has wings

[00:39:29] On this Re-watch I was just very I'm more charmed by Scuttle than I remember being Like Maybe when I was a kid I thought he was annoying Or something but Now I'm just like Scuttle's like a good dude He's like a bro Also Scuttle's like Bob

[00:39:49] My boyfriend was like Scuttle's just high All the time Scuttle is on the good drugs He's clearly having a good time Yeah Scuttle's Scuttle's for the grown ups Without being shrek for the grown ups It's not like any of his jokes are mature

[00:40:07] But he's got an energy that is Not particularly funny to kids Right I think that's accurate I think that's the thing When you're a kid you're like he's too loud I don't know These were the stats I have it here The stats he threw out

[00:40:25] These are the stats I have I think that's accurate I think that's true I'm just just like Scuttle's a good dude He's like Scuttle's a great dude I'm just like Scuttle's a good dude He's got a lot of fun But I don't know I think he's like

[00:40:43] I'm just like Scuttle's like Scuttle's like Scuttle's like Scuttle's like He's great and he's a musician like I get it, but it is I don't know where there are with their cut songs Like it's not like Aladdin where there was a bunch on the cutting room floor, right?

[00:41:04] Like no, I don't think so and it feels like I think and I think when they did the musical like they you know Tim Rice or something. Yeah, they came in and like made more And I'm sure Eric is gonna have six songs in the fucking Marshall movie

[00:41:21] I am the Eric It wasn't Tim Rice it was Glenn Slater It's just weird that there are multiple songs about Ariel where Ariel does not sing I guess that's what it is. It's that there's a song introducing her Yeah

[00:41:39] But then she's not there and then kiss the girl of course is Ariel's song in a way Yeah, and is my favorite song ever and is the song basically written by David Sims and a song

[00:41:49] I sing to my friends all the time in the form of social interaction, right? But like but of course she's silent, you know, which right? I mean part of this is as you said right

[00:42:00] She she can't speak for the whole second half of the movie, but it is fascinating how much this movie isn't Working on a formula because the formula hasn't been established yet

[00:42:14] And this is now I'm remembering what I was trying to set up fucking 30 minutes ago talking about how much of an Eli Wallach I've become but there's elements like that where it's just like right the fact that there's no

[00:42:24] Like flounder song that there's no Triton song that there's no Eric song Like none of that I'm saying is to the detriment of the movie But you cannot imagine that flying in a boardroom

[00:42:36] Especially when the chef has a song but also just the fact this is what made me think of this Like the little Harold guy the fact that you don't even really know his name or that like Ariel's sisters are just kind of like

[00:42:48] Window dressing the idea that Ariel's sisters wouldn't be a clear advertisement for a Expansion of the doll line that they're just kind of there

[00:42:58] But I'm like I was so surprised by the fact that they don't each have like a gimmick and each have like ten lines of dialogue Different hat that's it, but that's it. That's the point like they're mostly of a visual chorus Right and you're like today

[00:43:14] They would be like look we have to make sure that each one has their own sort of like captain planet style power So that girls can pick which Ariel sister is the one that represents them the best right and like It's

[00:43:33] Apparently the sequels get into this but we can't you know what I can't take those two seriously because they are half Just money-making opportunities for the Disney Company, but like you always wonder you say why is Triton so worked up about Ariel yeah specifically when he's got literally

[00:43:51] Older like his actual throne will right surely passed one of these older kids right Ariel's literally the youngest Yeah, I think you'd like give her a break. She's like I want to have a you know underwater music

[00:44:03] Game of human shit. He's like yeah sure you're the sixth daughter fine You know that can be your thing if you want that to be your thing because little mermaid 2 is Ariel and Eric's daughter

[00:44:12] And little mermaid 3 is a prequel about the sisters and maybe that's what it is I just someone told me on Twitter that apparently one of them Kind of clarifies that

[00:44:25] Ariel's mom is sort of like a carbon copy of Ariel so that that makes why Triton is super invested Which that's fine whatever Doesn't count but there was that weird thing with the direct video sequels where it feels like the second one

[00:44:42] They'd be like fuck it. I'm tempting fate I'm gonna make the movie that takes place after heavily happily ever after and the movie would almost always be they have a kid

[00:44:51] And the kids exactly like how they were at the beginning of the first movie and then the third movie They go like fuck well we did that we can't just do it a third time prequel and then the third one goes to before the first movie

[00:45:06] And I'm dreading this fucking Rob Marshall movie put whatever I mean I would be so excited if anyone other than Rob Marshall were making it like to a certain degree The prospect of adapting this one into live action is more exciting than the others

[00:45:24] But I don't know it's just like I don't think See my problem with that is that like it didn't work on stage like when they try to bring it to private

[00:45:34] Like I'm not sure the little mermaid works if you like extend it and like they will inevitably like Extend it like you have you sort of despite they're not gonna make just with this one They're especially cuz of all these sort of weird holes and like it goes

[00:45:48] They're not gonna just make like an 80 minute movie. They're gonna try to do yeah, yeah No, they'll do what they always do they tack on 45 minutes. Yeah

[00:45:57] It just like this one I feel like more than you know beauty and the beast worked on stage like obviously that movie is garbage But yeah, the remake is Garbage but like it worked on stage You're the one who wrote that piece Esther right when

[00:46:16] Whichever one came out how weird it is that Disney doesn't take more Inspiration from their stage shows when they're remaking this movies am I misremembering that that you wrote a piece about that I Wrote something specifically that I think I wrote like I mean

[00:46:33] I definitely wrote a lot about that like in terms of when I was reviewing Lion King how yeah, it doesn't make sense that They are not Taking from like in that case especially since the Lion King was so innovative

[00:46:46] And felt so different like and then to do a carbon copy But I don't I somebody else might have written like a more specific

[00:46:53] I feel like it when they make these decisions so in Beauty and the Beast right they did is well obviously where they don't use the musical songs

[00:47:00] They instead write great songs about you know, for example, how he's the beast right which was a plot hole in the original film It didn't know hard to follow. He never actually said it I Also Jasmine will never be speechless. She won't write never be speechless

[00:47:22] Okay, how won't how angry do you think they are that they burned that concept on Aladdin and not little mermaid as they're trying To come up with the fucking shitty filler songs for a little mermaid and they're like, okay

[00:47:34] What's the like the thing we have to make woke now? Oh She's speechless It is and we will you know what most likely one day do guy Richie that's a live action one come on the gentleman the gentle

[00:47:53] The gentleman which is the eighth highest grossing film of 2020 right, right exactly it's right behind Sonic the Hedgehog But I Your number your number one guy is starting in it

[00:48:09] Um wait, wait wait wait my number you mean wait, who do you mean? I here's who I'm gonna try and go through who's in David what what performer is saving theatrical movie going with his bare hands? Oh Trams. Oh

[00:48:25] Yeah, that's right. He's founder right he's uh, he's founder. I mean that's a slam dunk piece of casting to have He's your number one guy And I just also look as flounder just has big responsible energy like flounders the guy who's like

[00:48:44] Ariel I gotta get out of here like and that is kind of trend plays energy good boys was a dry run for flounder Here's my frustration. I think they should have done it like the fish in the tank in Monty Python in the meaning of life

[00:48:57] I think it should be tremble a with yellow face paint and there's a prosthetic fish around his head And he's wearing a green jumpsuit and they just they erase his body. It's just his head floating around So all right wait here's I'm gonna try in from memory

[00:49:12] All right, so I know I forget the name of the low mermaid, but she's is she an unknown actress or she They're twins their twin pop stars and they're not they're not actually They're not but their sisters

[00:49:26] Okay, and it's Halle Halle is little mermaid it must suck to be the other one Right, you don't right now. I can't stop feeling bad for for Chloe But yeah, so I know Javier Bardem is playing King Triton, which I think is a bad casting choice

[00:49:44] I do think is really weird. Yeah, I mean I'm sort of intrigued to see it I mean trick to see many a Javier Bardem performance actually, but I Don't know. I don't but I think it's the one area with these movies

[00:49:57] We're usually on paper the casting choices are really good and are better than the fan casting shit that people come up with And this is the first one where I'm just like every fan cast idea I heard for Triton was better than Bardem

[00:50:11] Who I think just has the wrong energy isn't he just gonna be like his pirates of the Caribbean? Yes Yes, he's just gonna have the fucking Drake sprite head No one's seen dead in Telno

[00:50:25] I literally know it doesn't know you didn't that's a Psyop. You think you saw it no one saw it. It's never been screened Boy That is anyway, okay, okay. All right. I know Melissa McCarthy is playing Ursula which has certainly yeah another Head I think terrible idea Yeah

[00:50:49] Why do you think she's bad? I'm not challenging you. I am sort of neutra on the whole thing. I think she had like I love Melissa McCarthy I love her so much. I'm rooting for her. I wish she would make better choices hard of her career

[00:51:06] But I feel like she has a goofy energy And not the sort of malevolent right not the malevolent like Bitch queen of the sea energy that I want for Ursula Yeah, I also think part of Melissa McCarthy's appeal is a sort of very calibrated

[00:51:28] Sloppiness, right? That yeah, which Ursula Right, right. No, but I'm saying I'm not saying I don't mean this in any way

[00:51:37] That's not comedic sensibility is her riffing sort of thing and how good she is at physical comedy and all this shit is making things feel kind of organic Whereas Ursula is very like theatrical Performative and I also think Melissa McCarthy's fastball is anger, but it's often misplaced anger

[00:51:56] It's not menace Which Ursula has to be genuinely menacing Well, the only thing I'm gonna say in defense there's two things one as you guys are saying I kind of just want her to do anything. That's not Ben Falcone Straight to gas stations. I agree

[00:52:15] So right that are called like the lady and you're like what's it about? It's like well, what if a lady was in a town? I'm like is there anything else? I'd like they bought it before we even said anything more. So that's what it's about

[00:52:27] I'm just realizing now is felt It's not going to play like fucking flop Sam is he here's the thing he can play flotsam and jesse He's a perfectly enjoyable Screen presence. I know as long as he's not creatively involved

[00:52:42] I agree with you David, but I think the second you allow him on to set its sort of vampire rules You can't let him onto the soundstage because I've heard stories about some of the movies that

[00:52:55] He ostensibly didn't direct that got kind of felt like okay. Yeah, well, so right so that's it But to the thing about Melissa McCarthy and Esther you and I had a whole debate about this recently

[00:53:09] She and not not that you disagreed with me, but we were just talking about weird her career is like She's just so talented and like she surprised me in the past

[00:53:19] Yeah, there's like multiple Melissa McCarthy projects that I walked into pretty like okay and like so maybe I'd Maybe she can shock me. I don't know but maybe I mean I also think the movie will stink because I think Rob Marshall is a bad director He's bad director

[00:53:36] Obviously we can move on through this but like a while ago when I was working at the AV club They did one of those like AB Club Q&A is and one of the questions was like who is an actor that you will like see in

[00:53:46] Whatever and at that point in time I said Melissa McCarthy because I'd seen all of them like I'd seen yeah, I'm me I'd seen the boss like I kept going in with these high hopes now

[00:53:56] I finally fallen off where it's like I'm not gonna fucking watch super intelligence I watched it like a sadist because I'm like rooting for her so hard I was like it's bad. It fucking sucks like it's so shitty

[00:54:11] But it but it also is like she's so innately talented I don't think there is a single performer alive let alone a movie star of That stature where the gulf is that wide between the best their best work and their worst work with nothing in between

[00:54:30] Like it's it's so cut and dry and it's unfortunately It's now become like her only good comedies are directed by Paul Feig and Otherwise pretty much you can only expect her to be good sometimes When she's working outside of her home genre, right?

[00:54:47] But then there's shit like the kitchen where you're like that should have been a layup The kitchen is right That movie is insane She's fine in it. I guess I that movie just felt like I don't know

[00:55:04] It felt like a right like I was gonna walk out and people are gonna be like you didn't see a movie in there Like I just felt like something that didn't happen. I

[00:55:12] Just wanted to say aqua fina is playing scuttle. It's like dog. Yes. I think that's great Yeah, that when I because I had to check I'd forgotten and when I looked that up I was like well, that's nice. That's a good galaxy brain shit

[00:55:25] That's like oh, you're not gonna get someone to do a buddy hack impression. What's like a parallel energy? That's the thing who is 2020's buddy hack it right aqua fina? Yeah, I Wrote down like stupid notes when I was watching the movie yesterday

[00:55:42] And one of them was like because again Bob was like all the other pigeons are I mean not not pigeons Oh other seagulls like normal and scuttle looks Fucked up and I was like scuttle's like, you know

[00:55:55] One of those New York pigeons that you like see and it has like one leg And it's like all sort of like looks weird and like it's sort of like scuttle's like a New Yorker That's been transported to the sea off the coast of France. I guess I

[00:56:08] Mean, we can't we can't try and plumb the geography of this fucking movie. I don't what time is it set in? Where are we who knows? I don't know determine this time that it's off the coast of France because There's a map. I think no and then no

[00:56:26] I don't know But Eric is American like we just can't think about it. It's so culturally on specific I will say I have a simpler answer for that one question for Bob, which is scuttle's the only one who's Jewish

[00:56:40] That's that's scuttle's deal. He is Jewish. Yeah, right? He's canonically Jewish I I will I will take no questions at this time And then and then David digs is Sebastian that seems like a good call. Yeah, and then who is

[00:57:00] Prince Eric, I guess it's like an unknown guy they offered to Harry Styles and he turned it down Here's okay, here's the thing I want to say let's get into the 1999 movie obviously But like yeah

[00:57:12] Here's the thing I want to say about Prince Eric because I feel like he gets a bad rap because he's boring and doesn't really contribute much He falls madly in love with someone who he cannot have a conversation with like it's kind of a bad sign

[00:57:27] Right, right, but he's a chiller All he wants to do is sit on the boat play his flute play with his dog He loves his fucking flute. He loves his flute

[00:57:37] You know, he's got some nice casual where he doesn't stand on ceremony when they're having this fancy dinner and his His aid to camp is like oh, right

[00:57:47] The best shot of Eric is I think it's the night after kiss the girl or maybe it's the night before kiss the girl We're just cuts to like him in the dark like with a

[00:57:55] Flowing cape like playing his flute just in the end he loves to play the flute. Yeah, and She's like she's like yeah, he's good dog dad. He's like Ariel's like I can't talk He's not like bothering her about that where he's like why can't you talk?

[00:58:11] What's that? He's just like oh, yeah, whatever man like that's cool You want to roll with me and I'll play my flute and you know, it just he's a he's a friendly fella You know who the voice actor is right? I

[00:58:23] Don't but you know I do know I'm gonna look it up now But I do know someone who was like the runner-up for that role do you know who? who

[00:58:31] Jim Carrey I did see that. Yeah. Yeah, isn't that wild like young Jim Carrey and Michael Richards almost played scuttle That's why oh god. He would have been good. He would have been good Oh, yeah, I mean it all worked out. Yeah who voiced

[00:58:51] I'm forgetting the guy's name, but he was also Daniel Barnes he was 90s cartoon spider-man He was like the main spider-man of the 90s right. No, I watched that show absolutely And he's Greg Brady in the Brady Bunch movies Oh Looks like Prince Eric in real life. Yeah

[00:59:15] That's cool. I respect it. Yeah, he's just the ultimate like perfect kind of Cartoon leading man voice actor like he's got a cleanest life. Hello. I'm a man. I'm a person Yeah, cuz like the beast is such an insane problematic romantic lead

[00:59:35] Just a bananas where Eric it's like yeah, he's boring You know, he's fine Like to like to get into the like the things that people you know take complain about with this movie in 2020 you can literally all attribute it to

[00:59:55] All of the decisions that she makes it like people like oh she gives up her legs for a man. What about it's like she's 16 and yeah, he is hell. Yeah, so stupid I feel like when you're watching it like in like as an adult you're like

[01:00:14] She wants to go somewhere Yeah, only friend is a fucking dumb cuck fish She hangs out her her teacher is a seagull who's let's be honest like, you know not half there Yeah, not very well questions about this movie. You are a freak like the freaks

[01:00:33] I'm seeing when I search fan art. Yeah David messaged me earlier this morning that hit like saying the flounder is a cock She probably chill out calling everything a cock and you know Ursula is a sorcerer and she's she knows what she's doing

[01:00:52] She's a see what yeah, she's a see which yes, she does see which are a wild thing to think about Go ahead that Sophia Coppola came this close to doing a live-action little mermaid for Universal love to see it

[01:01:06] And the reason she quit is because Universal wouldn't let her cast Maya Thurman Hawk Is that true? That's true. Why she would have been great. Yeah, she discovered her and they were like we're not gonna hire an unknown Wait, wait

[01:01:23] Yeah, exactly like what the fuck are you talking about she would have added another like lobster and they would have been Bella and Sebastian Ben's leaning in for that one Sorry Fuck yeah, I mean Maya Hawk is great Yeah, I actually think she's very talented

[01:01:51] It is one of those things where you're like, you know what these famous people have kids and guess what they're really attractive And they know what they're doing in front of the camera like but but also like new to hotties had this kid

[01:02:01] So Sophia Coppola, I guess game recognized game knows good nepotism when she sees it called it But do you think that's what it was though? They were like Sophia Come on

[01:02:12] She called it this was like four years ago and they were like we really want Chloe Grace Moretz And she quit and the movie never got made They wanted Chloe Grace that would stink. Yeah, oh man, and I don't even hate Chloe Grace Moretz anymore

[01:02:27] I she's coming Jerry Chloe Grace Moretz. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yes. Is she in Tom and Jerry? She playing David is she in time. Have you not seen the Tom and Jerry trailer? I have not I just decided there were other things I wanted to do

[01:02:44] To watch the Tom and Jerry trailer David, do you know? You do do you know that Tom and Jerry are hand drawn that Tom and Jerry takes place in some weird Roger Rabbit style universe. It's unclear if it's like oh their cartoons or if in this universe all

[01:03:03] Animals look like tattoos, but they're a bunch of pigeons singing juice by Lizzo and there's a cartoon elephant Colin Jost rides the rides the rides the cartoon elephant Colin Jost is in this thing the central Conflict of the Tom and Jerry movie directed by Tim Story

[01:03:23] Sure, is that Chloe Grace Moretz is a new hire at New York's fanciest hotel working for Michael Pena and Fucking catastrophe Rob Delaney And they're like we have a mouse problem Should we hire exterminators and she's like why hire exterminators when we can hire a cat and

[01:03:48] She hires Jerry and they're trying to clean the place out before Colin Jost has what is referred to in the trailer as The wedding of the century Wow, so sounds anybody could just make those decisions. That's so dumb chaos and

[01:04:07] Right, but they actually that one was actually just them throwing dice every single time they had to make a decision They were like all right if we roll we roll it up 20 here

[01:04:17] No, just a wall and they threw darts at it literally I mean it must be of the century I'm just dying to hear who Colin Jost's Character is supposed to be in this universe. Do you know who Colin Jost is married to? Diana clearly yeah

[01:04:34] Colin Jost is Princess Diana like that's the answer what I can only be that and he's canon Colin Jost they're like the the star of we can update his very Princess Diana who's alive in this universe

[01:04:47] I'm just so excited because every time I watch weekend update. I go. Why isn't this guy in movies? I really want to see him in movies that feels like where he belongs The Little Mermaid Which is a 1989 film written and directed by Ron Clemens and John Musker

[01:05:07] And I do want to point that out because that's unusual for Disney at the time It's just credited to them as writers as well as his directors although. Yeah, I mean by all accounts Ashman deserves a lot of credit. I mean he really

[01:05:20] How I'll tell you shape this story is the producer which obviously yes is a huge acknowledgement of his creative involvement, right? But Ashman came in they had a script and he kind of went through with a machete and went like too many characters

[01:05:35] Make this bigger make this smaller. He was the one who's Jamaican right make Sebastian Jamaican make Ursula divine, right? Like I mean he had so many of the Essential character hooks he brought and it should be said this movie is 80 minutes long Why? it it

[01:05:57] Like crams a whole plot in there despite having lots of strange digressions like yeah You know, I mean the most obviously the I want song that you know part of your world is such an impressive thing

[01:06:08] But like I think Ashman in the Howard documentary they talk about how poor Not poor you know about how the Ursula convincing her to give up her voice poor unfortunate soul Yeah, it is poor unfortunate. Yeah, it's all it's all bundled in there

[01:06:22] Like there's so much that happens in those four minutes that they get He talks about like how important soul she literally introduces herself What's your deal, okay? Yeah, she explains her whole plot

[01:06:43] She explains what you're gonna do and that's like I'm taking your voice by the end of the song like she literally Poor potion of souls is such a good song So hard I'm a very busy woman and I haven't got all day

[01:06:59] Yeah, I mean that's like the argument for for musicals as a storytelling form is not just the you know this sort of like Emotionally a static truth that you can reach but also just like the fucking economy of this thing

[01:07:14] That that shit goes down smoother in a song, you know You can you get a lot of shoe leather out of the way. That's the thing because if it was dialogue

[01:07:25] Ariel would be like oh, can I say bye to my dad? Like I need to pack some things and it's like no no You're going to the earth the earth now And it's also just the buy-in like as an audience member

[01:07:36] You you accept these sort of narrative leaps more easily Because you've already bought into the idea that people sing Their thoughts, you know, it's just like right

[01:07:47] I think it's one of the reasons why the whole rada 2e musical thing on tiktok has been so potent is because like you step back And you're like rada 2e does feel like the premise of a musical It's almost more bizarre that they landed on that premise

[01:08:01] Not in a musical because the idea that there are long dialogue scenes where he's like if you pull this lock This arm moves up is wild That only seems like that could be explained through a song

[01:08:14] I do feel like the ashenman thing with this too is like one of the things that really annoys me that people always Say when they're talking about part of your world is that like it's you know

[01:08:23] It sounds exactly the same as somewhere that's green and like it does sound very similar to somewhere that's green From little shop, but it's also just a typical I want song But I do feel like it is The thing that

[01:08:35] Is so interesting about like what he was able to do is like he did this with little shop where and he talks a lot about this in the documentary where it's like

[01:08:44] This is i'm taking the horror form like i'm plugging musical theater into this like b horror movie format In little shop and then he sort of reverses that and I think you see so much like it little mermaid does feel like the Sort of of the three disney

[01:09:04] Musicals like the one that's most like analogous to little shop in that way it has the built like Poor unfortunate soul sort of does the same thing as feed me, you know

[01:09:14] Like it offers the same thing, you know somewhere that's green does the same thing as part of your world blah blah blah But it's just really interesting because it's this bite this these two sort of in little shop he's putting musical into horror movie and

[01:09:30] You know in little mermaid. He's putting new musical into princess disney's animation like basically everything is forming each i'm like Blabbering on but it feels like no, no everything is informing each other and they're all you know And he's sort of so he's using these baseline formulas to

[01:09:53] Like reinvent genres just time and time again Absolutely It makes it easy to digest right on paper little shop is an inherently sarcastic exercise, right? It's the idea of like Is anything less on paper obvious to turn into a musical

[01:10:13] But but it's both like something of a challenge to himself of like look I can turn anything into a musical and apply it all so he really found the kernel Of the story there that works well in the sort of musical format

[01:10:26] Whereas little mermaid is on paper much more of a musical But but the secret thing he unlocked in little shop is to play it incredibly straight To have a real sincerity to the emotions So it's not like he has to like by removing the satirical edge

[01:10:44] The songs in little mermaid feel defanged the funniest thing he does in little shop is play the songs incredibly straight Even though he's making fun of like the idea of the I want song with somewhere that's green because you know

[01:10:58] He taught you know because she's singing about like wanting like watching howdy-duty But it also genuinely works as an I want song like you don't take it as a

[01:11:09] Goof and then it's also it's the Ellen green thing of just like you get the right person singing this song Like it means everything in the world and you're gonna choke up

[01:11:18] You know it doesn't matter if a couple of the lines are jokes the thing is all and this is true of all three of his Disney movies, you know right there's so much humor in the lyrics. Yeah, even when it's serious

[01:11:31] And part of your world has all these you know Who's a little what's about yeah exactly? Um and you can also be right. Yeah, I mean in you can just google it But him directing jody benson singing that song. Yeah, it's so incredible to watch unbelievable

[01:11:47] Yeah, like because it's and it's collaborative. I mean he obviously was this very intense dude And had such fixed idea, you know specific ideas of like how you know, like he's just one of those Artie types who knows

[01:12:00] He knows what he wants like and he it's more just how to figure out how to get It out of whoever he's collaborating but like she's so locked in with him It's it's so fun to watch them figure it out together

[01:12:12] Well, she was also the star of smile She was like, yes, she he's she sort of like she said like I feel like he offered me You know the chance to audition for ariel because he felt bad about smile

[01:12:26] Flopping so hard and I think the two of them felt kind of unified in the idea of like this might be the big break There there's a certain like foxhole Solidarity that comes when people fail together on that scale. You know

[01:12:41] Yeah, absolutely jody benzin, of course voice of barbie and the choice I was gonna say I mean, I just think jody benzin never really gets enough credit and and rewatching this movie Today, it's such a fucking good performance

[01:12:56] Especially considering that she doesn't talk for the second half of the movie Like the work she does in the first 45 minutes has to be strong enough to carry you through the remaining 45 minutes less

[01:13:08] But it absolutely true. It's also just a total I mean glen keen is her animator, right? Is the main animator and says that she looks like his wife Yeah

[01:13:18] And I mean it's she ariel is like the most incredible piece of character animation like the way her hair moves around the hair alone The hair is the whole fucking thing The whole physicality of her hair is just so important Yes, right

[01:13:31] So so so just like all her sort of flouncing, you know her hand on chin Like oh there's just so much teenage doom that I feel like when you're a kid you just totally get it from her

[01:13:44] Yeah, yeah, I mean glen keen is one of the best character animators in history There have been few people that good at animation performance and I think he's one of those guys where like

[01:13:57] Uh, Rapunzel was his passion project for years and years and years. That's the one he wanted to make right tango, right? And and to some degree I think Disney kept fucking him over and not letting him direct because they didn't want to lose him as a lead animator

[01:14:11] Because he was just so valuable On a on a character focus level that it's like why You know why make our our our best picture The team manager does that track david? Does that no that absolutely make that's absolutely That that was a very good analogy Hey

[01:14:32] But that's right because he's kind of your ace exactly sure one of the things I was thinking about like just in terms of watching when I mentioned like watching it from this new perspective thinking about the direction is the way that muskering clements sort of like

[01:14:48] Take not just like a straight lyric to visual sort of transfer but they take the spirit of Ashman's lyrics like the way that we were talking about like throwing even in a perfectly serious song throwing in the jokes and interpret that like visually like I feel like um

[01:15:10] You know part of your world is full of that in a way that I sort of had sort of forgotten like You know you have sabastion sort of watching part of your world the whole time and like His collection coming up, right?

[01:15:24] That's when he switches sides basically like that's him understanding her plight much more deeply No, the best character in the movie. Yeah, but also he's like he's knocking he's knocking over things

[01:15:35] He's like there are these visual jokes within it. You know, I just feel like it's it's so It's really interesting You know it's such a collaborative art and it's so interesting looking at all the ways that wait a second Did you know that sabastion is his last name?

[01:15:53] What? No, I just googled Here is his full name here is his full name and of course as you guys mentioned He's and he's not in the hunt of course hans christin aniston story

[01:16:05] Which you should read and his bananas and has nothing to do with the little mermaid the movie really and she turns into C foam at the end and yada yada yada But his name is lin manwell sabastion Sorry

[01:16:20] But as as you alluded to he was originally going to be an english butler lobster it totally makes sense that that's like That's just so obvious calling him a lobster. He's a crab

[01:16:31] Yeah, no, he was going to be a lobster. Oh, he was going to be called clarence not sabastion And and I imagine he would have been like zazu right? He would have been like Don't do that right like a lot of you know sounds like a fucking herb

[01:16:48] Yeah, exactly exactly and so Um Howard ashman is like no, he should be a crab. He should be like uh, jamaican And I you know, I want to write the music to that but apparently his full name is

[01:17:01] Horatio Thelonious Ignatius Christatius Sebastian that fucking rules that is the best name of all time Holy shit, and of course he's voiced by samuelie right Who is so wonderful in this movie and

[01:17:18] The design of sabashion originated in fasa on broadway. He did he was moussasa. I love the design of moussasa Yeah, that's a thing. I was gonna say too Trying to identify what is like the specific

[01:17:32] Sort of skill set that musker clements bring to these movies against the other films of the disney renaissance I feel like there's a sort of um How do I even put this there is a sort of holistic tone that is able to cover all of the different

[01:17:54] Modes that the movie has to play in right between genuine menace and romance and comedy And swooning emotions and the music and the dialogue scenes and all of that And I feel like a lot of the non musker clements films As enjoyable as they may be

[01:18:10] There is that sort of like cognitive dissonance between like Oh mushu is really goofy and then there are scenes in mulan that are a good point. Yes Really straight, you know, I feel like pocahontas, which I like more than a lot of people has that problem too

[01:18:25] We're like some of it is like really kind of like already an adult and then some of it is so goofball McGillicuddy Same thing yeah, perfect example like hunchback is in a way my favorite of the era

[01:18:39] But then you just have to ignore all the shit with the gargoyles which sticks out like a sore thumb And I feel like the musker clements films are balanced like they just they know they have the right sort of comedic energy

[01:18:51] To be able to contain all of this while still giving it appropriate weight I agree with you completely I think this is the this is why as much as I like hunchback and I and I like um

[01:19:04] Uh, fuck we mentioned another one that I really like because pocahontas Mulan I have trouble with No, but but hunchback I love Tarzan has this problem too

[01:19:13] Tarzan hugely has that problem right the shit with the with the tiger and the shit with roseo donald are two entirely different crammed in it feels like disney checking boxes like well no come on the kids need a funny sidekick they need a

[01:19:26] And muskering clements and part of the thing that I don't know what it is about them that like they nail this I think with this ended with the latin, but like It's it's that every character Just feel I don't they just sell you on

[01:19:42] Sebastian the crab being the number two guy who's gonna kind of Work with triton and with ariel doesn't make any sense. I don't know like whatever A lot of it personality and a lot of it's good comedic instincts, right?

[01:19:56] I mean like comedy is one of the the fastest ways to successfully Uh, uh sort of care define character And I think they get that but it but it also like this you see this movie coming up with the template that starts to doom

[01:20:12] Disney to diminishing returns after this not not i'm not saying everything from here on out is bad But it but it's like the tv dinner thing of like, okay You need four animal sidekicks two of them talk two of them are silent

[01:20:24] The the romantic interest is like this the villains like this the villain has three henchmen Like you have this many comedy scenes this much physical comedy this much romance like this movie is such a successfully rounded balance of everything the other thing is like obviously the

[01:20:42] Factor that's not and not to take away from muskling clements is like contributions But like obviously the other factor is that like also ashman is not involved in the like the rep like outside of He's not absolutely. No, he's not

[01:20:55] He's not like and and outside of but you sort of see You almost sort of see him and maybe it's a mankin thing too It's hard to sort of interpret it what like what's there

[01:21:06] But like you see almost the lessons that maybe muskling clothes absorbing the lessons that like And the tone that howard is bringing I think all of the songs in these later works You know, I mean it's so funny because like hercules is obviously not an ash

[01:21:26] It like ashman had died before it's me, but you know, but the like the you know the um The muses are basically the same convention Ashman would have crushed that movie. I mean ashman is the missing element in hercules, which is a really interesting movie

[01:21:42] But that's what it's lacking You sort of wonder if because the long reign was so was the first one It was the first one where all these elements came together. Yeah, maybe like muskling lemons like farther down the line absorbed more

[01:21:54] Sort of just this process that worked so well I I agree and I think we'll we'll spend a whole episode on hercules But my my instinct, you know from the last couple times I've rewatched it is like I think the songs in hercules rule

[01:22:08] I I think it doesn't have they're fun the story instincts that ashman would have brought to how those songs Correspond to the movie at large and I think like I I think ashman taught muskling clements and disney animation at large a lot about storytelling

[01:22:27] And that I think started to get watered down and become a little more wrote and mechanized Uh his lessons After his death But I also think you have to give muskling clements a lot of credit for execution because of how much They had to successfully

[01:22:44] Selvis through the performance of the animation a medium that he did not know at all Like even though you see the clips of how much he was working with the voiceover actors and the orchestra

[01:22:53] And how much he was working with the writers and everything at the end of the day Muskling clements didn't just have to make this work visually But they had to make it work on a visual performance level which they really really do

[01:23:05] I I just just my final point Uh muskling clements moana I think is the biggest testament to this because moana excises Things that it doesn't need. Yeah, like it doesn't have a lot of this stuff that we're talking about

[01:23:19] In ways that feel like well, we have to do this. So we're gonna do you know, like Yes, of course, she's got a little chicken with her and we stand the chicken The chicken's great and we're gonna talk about the chicken

[01:23:29] But they just don't feel the need to like have the chicken talk and have a song, you know, like It just feels like they know They leave that pig on the island. I know it's such a well choice. Yeah

[01:23:42] It's so funny too because like when they leave the pig on the island I remember thinking like I can't believe they're sacrificing merchandise sales like that by leaving the pig on the island

[01:23:52] And then I speak to like kids like my friends who have young kids and they love the fucking pig And I'm like shows me like it still works you get 10 minutes at the pig And the kids buy the pig for the rest of their life. Yeah

[01:24:04] Pig rolls come on So Little mermaid Ariel is a princess. She lives in an under one. She's called atlantic What the fuck atlantic David just because i'm a little confused about something. Uh, what what size is she? She's low. Oh, okay. She's a little mermaid

[01:24:28] It's a fair point. She's not little. She's regular size No, she's kind of a little mermaid compared to treyton Triton treyton is an absolute unit look at the size of that lad. He is huge His fucking trident is bigger than Ariel like Nipples are very large

[01:24:47] The nipple thing has resonated with me. I think from birth I think I always was like there's something wild about this guy's Big old nips like, you know that just sort of makes him more dad-like. I guess in a weird way

[01:25:01] I don't know if I have more for you on that. I'm sorry When you when you watch this would you get tear in your eye? Do you go it reminds me of daddy's nips? Is that what you're saying?

[01:25:11] It's not it's not that it's like it's just like there's something there's everything about him is big I guess I guess is what i'm talking about um, right nips hair crown trident and

[01:25:27] Bad attitude. I mean, you know the the guy's got a bit of a short fuse. Yeah Um, but he does love his daughter his daughter only loves The human world. Yeah, she wants to go there. She wants it's it's the simplest story

[01:25:43] She just wants to escape she wants to grow up and You know roam beyond pastors home Right, it's the same thing. It's that potency. It's the let it go thing of just like any kid of any age A capable of cognizant thought right? uh, can uh

[01:26:02] Can can track on to that feeling of just like i'm over it I'm so frustrated with this and what my parents tell me I have to do

[01:26:10] And ariel's the same thing where it's just like dreaming about what life will be like if you get to do things on your own terms Right. She's also though kind of like into like vintage And she's like like this is all stuff I didn't

[01:26:25] Realize until watching it recently. She's kind of like exploring like abandoned old factories Sound art kind of saying you know what i'm saying? Like I really related she like Peaced out on this recital to go like go to an abandoned sunken boat. I'm like hell. Yeah

[01:26:46] You're cool as hell right? Tangle with a shark that is no joke that shark wants to murder her even though she's like he's at the sea She she's essentially like she's got like her her like Pinterest curation of like objects, right?

[01:27:02] Yes, like her mood board of like yeah Perfect teenager again We can all relate right like that's and okay Sebastian of course as conductor of triton's orchestra is keeping tabs on her Yeah, and you know I'll also and and triton wants her to get with a guy

[01:27:21] But unlike in the laden where they're like throwing suitors at jasmine or whatever like it's not like triton's bringing anyone around He's making no effort to actually like give I guess he's trying to present her to society In the first scene is that sort of the idea?

[01:27:37] She's they're introducing her Right like it's this will be like her her big intro to adulthood like it's her cattillion But I feel like he's not really that concerned with like Marrying her off. He just like wants her to

[01:27:53] Chill out when she's when she's in love. He's like oh who's she in love with and I'm like Who do you think like there's no men around here? Like what do you think she fell in love with a rock like harold? Harold that guy With the rough Sebastian

[01:28:15] Is the movies most well, okay? You know what actually no we should mention that the movie starts on a boat and there's a lot of You know action with the sailors the guys

[01:28:27] As well like it introduces you to eric first and then to triton and his kids and then to aerial like it's not even Um trying to you know aerial sort of this elusive figure for the first 10 minutes of the movie

[01:28:40] Uh, yeah. Yeah, I mean it's it's once again. It's weirdly something that gets replicated like uh Uh, pocahontas has like the virginia Uh trading company right right and we're just saying frozen has that sort of opening

[01:28:56] But like you do the kind of world immersion number with a bunch of anonymous grunts Just to place you in the setting Uh, right and then you do a lot of wind-up of the palace the the world the rules

[01:29:11] Um, I mean this was the last sort of analog um 2d movie hand drawn totally after this it goes to caps It goes to um, you know computer scans and it paints and colors Um, this is the last movie done in the traditional styles

[01:29:31] But then with all these really complex effects added in like the amount of bubble work in this movie is right wait Fuck there was some stat about that. It's uh mark dindal who of course eventually

[01:29:43] Insane I I kept thinking I kept noticing the bubbles on this watch just how much How hard that must have been and right because the bubbles are anytime they speak or move there are bubbles

[01:29:54] Mark dindal who goes on to make the emperor's new groove was in charge of the effects And he said they drew 1 million bubbles. Yeah, there must have been very boring fucking insane

[01:30:04] Right, but like this is the last one that's still using like a multi-plane camera and a xerox machine and all these sort of like old techniques Um, you have some CGI elements like the ship is CGI

[01:30:16] You know anytime you see the big ships. I mean sort of structures like that um, but there there is a Tactility to this which also just like the shit like the hair and the bubbles just blows your Fucking mind

[01:30:31] There is something to the fact that you'd never get out of your head like someone had to draw this Like there's no simulation for this, you know Yeah, it and it's beautiful. I mean It does look cheaper than Aladdin or Beauty and the Beast

[01:30:48] Maybe it's just because they're switching to caps after this right but like in a way that is Charming like it's not like it looks bad and those are also just generally more

[01:30:58] Expensive and expansive productions. It just it feels it feels smaller than that like yeah, the movie is really small It has like five locations in total and five of those locations are very loose locations

[01:31:12] And the fifth lead is literally the fucking seagull maybe sixth lead right depending on where you put flounder Right. It is it is a very contained movie in a lot of ways um It is and it's 80 minutes long But has you know a sequence where

[01:31:30] Renee Arbizhonua plays a chef who tries to check cookfish, which is a great sequence obviously that is the best That's straight out of looney tunes, but like Cuttable In theory like you know it has these beautiful quite like the moment where she watches the fireworks off the boat

[01:31:49] And Menken score, which is like his greatest score ever is going Is so cool and so atmospheric I think Beauty and the Beast is his greatest score That's well that is yeah No, that is But sorry, yeah

[01:32:07] No, that's not a controversial band. It's totally the other score that I think is also his maybe most Like could be one of his greatest scores is hunchback. I think hunchback is an incredible score

[01:32:20] Um, you know, I should rewatch hunchback. It's been a while hunchback's really good. Uh, it's great. I remember I loved it It is just one of those things where it's like I I understand music so little

[01:32:36] That I wish I had the language but also just the ability to comprehend why The Is immediately so powerful, you know, and I don't just think it's a nostalgia thing There's something about just like it's some weird that combination of notes at that speed

[01:32:56] Just immediately is so evocative And it sounds evocative of the exact thing It sounds like underwater and it also sounds like longing It sounds like that sort of childlike optimistic longing and for to contain both of those things at the same time I I don't

[01:33:13] Understand how you land on something that simple and that elegant in that potent Um, and she does like, you know throw her life away essentially because she

[01:33:22] Swims up to a boat and looks at eric and eric's playing the flute like you know like a boss and she loves it Yeah, and yes, obviously if you interrogate this From a logical plot like then yes, you'll get yourself in trouble. It's yes

[01:33:37] There are lots of things about these disney movies that are fraught but it's that elemental longing and see if she wants This thing that is so different But it's also like it doesn't matter what guy it's I mean like obviously it's complicated with like the ending

[01:33:52] But it sort of doesn't matter what guy it is. It's just like he is everything that She does not have he has legs He's on land. That's like literally all she wants. He's hot and you know He's a teenager

[01:34:07] Like I think that's the thing that like I realized watching this adult that was like so so much She's she is supposed to be 16. She says her age

[01:34:16] Yeah, yeah, and 16 year olds do shit like this like it's it's fucked up that she gets married at the end of it but like You know, but that's that's the disney movie And Eric's the same way too where it's just like

[01:34:30] You know, it's funny that Eric is the one who gets more of this sort of setup of like they've aggressively been trying to marry him off He's been meeting Potential brides who he doesn't like right important question. What is Grimsby's relationship to Eric? every single

[01:34:49] Time I watch this movie I think renais a bourgeois is Grimsby because i'm just like obviously That's what you cast him as and then you get to the chef and i'm like right these lunatics No, so Eric is as far as I can tell a prince

[01:35:04] It's just that he doesn't want any princely trappings, right? So he serves on the boat with the old sea dogs and he You know keeps it real with his sheep dog. He's his big furry dog

[01:35:15] So Grimsby is the guy who's like well, of course. I'm here to keep an eye on you, right? Like he's the Sebastian He's the parent send out the one guy to just be like just keep tabs

[01:35:26] In case he like falls in love with a mermaid and or a really hot Lady who just kind of has sea witch energy. Just watch out for one of those. Maybe she's got a shell necklace that glows

[01:35:38] I've always thought that Ursula in human form was supremely hot. She's like hot She's so hot I was texting with Caroline's friend and i'm like, uh-huh sure friend of the show. Yeah, it's like interesting I'll listen to your shell. Do you tell me whatever? Yeah, whatever man framkey

[01:36:03] Framkey was like, yeah, there's an early crush for me in that movie Can you guess and I was like is it Ursula as a woman or Vanessa and she was like bingo because you know, obviously aerial

[01:36:15] Is a famous whatever early crush I suppose for kids, but Vanessa's she's she's out there. You know keep an eye out Yeah, I I honestly had the the exact opposite thought of she just seems too mean like I had

[01:36:32] I was like I had the thought I went I guess she's pretty but she just seemed so mean I mean she is mean she's Ursula and Ursula is mean Yeah, and Ursula You know unlike scar or jafar where I guess they're all similar figures right there outcast

[01:36:52] geniuses who are like You know all I want is to be in charge, but I'm like I'm the weirdo. I'm the scary one. I'm right. I'm over here but Ursula is phenomenal like and and nothing everything God this movie is so good it's tough to talk about Um

[01:37:11] Just just the way every character is animated. Yeah, I'm kind of freaking it You know like and Aladdin does this to everyone's a different shape Everyone moves in a different way right? Yeah, this feels very like the way Ursula moves is so wonderful

[01:37:26] The transformation when she Vanessa turns back into Ursula and she kind of like explodes out of her Is so cool Is so cool She's so cool. I love that first and should I had sort of forgotten about that first introduction when she like slinks out of the hole

[01:37:44] Right when she slinks out of the hole, but also then it's like that's sort of it's a brief scene where you meet her It's prior to poor unfortunate souls

[01:37:52] And then it ends with like the her tentacles sort of taking over the screen and you just are left with like her eyes and right, right What wasn't so Ursula was written or maybe not written to be I was obviously based on divine

[01:38:09] Disney wasn't going to hire divine Disney really wanted be arthur, especially because They produced golden girls and they thought that was sort of synergistic Be arthur turned it down and then Elaine stretch was hired right? She was cast and did not vibe with ashman Sorry before

[01:38:28] Ashman wanted it to be Joan Collins That was another one he wanted Joan or whatever he he she was a huge He would cite um, alexis carrington her character from dynasty is like this is the vibe

[01:38:45] I want this is the vibe I want but yes, they did hire Elaine stretch and they did not Get along he her and ashman Yeah, I mean I guess I was gonna say I wonder what happened, but then I just thought to myself

[01:38:58] Well, I've seen the the fucking company document Exactly. It's the company documentary. They just don't seem like they were just like animation is just recording a soundtrack only Yeah, exactly Elaine stretch whatever right? That's not her Energy so pat carol

[01:39:16] I mean she I feel like she's just like a Broadway person right? She did like a Wonder Woman show on Gertrude Stein But like you know like that kind of stuff. What was the thing I saw her in recently? She was also

[01:39:29] Um, I believe Shirley's mom on Laverne and Shirley Yes, that's right. She was You know what is I I've been watching the maria tyler moore show and she has a fucking

[01:39:41] Unbelievable episode of the maria tyler moore show where I was just like sure who the fuck is this The whole episode is sort of based around this this one-off character. She plays and then realized oh, that's Ursula Um, but her voice is so goddamn deep and incredible

[01:39:59] It's so cool. She's still alive. You know, she's 93 years old. Yeah, it's wild Mazel her It's one of those things where like you hear, you know divine had obviously died by the time this movie came out

[01:40:11] Although, you know, it was obviously production for the but like you hear some of the people they thought about like Nancy Marshawn and rosanne right, you know Nancy I You're like that's cool. Tony Sopranos mother

[01:40:26] Right, but but at the same time you're like, but no one else could have done like this is a perfect voice performance Like yeah, Nicholas to imagine even Elaine stretch or whatever

[01:40:35] I also saw this it was playing weirdly like one saturday afternoon at a bunch of amc theaters Like a year ago and I went to see it Impulsively because I hadn't seen since I was a small child So I'd seen this movie

[01:40:49] In a captive audience, you know on a big screen full attention Fairly recently before rewatching it today and even still the first syllable out of her mouth I was just like whoa Like totally taken aback surprised

[01:41:05] Caught off guard, you know, I think that's maybe the hard thing at the thing about Ursula that makes it like Hard to imagine, you know, just going back to the listen Karthi conversation It really is hard to imagine someone Doing Ursula as well as this voice performance

[01:41:21] It would have to be such like a radical choice that There's something so specific It feels so universal like it does. Yeah, like it it's taking all these influences Like, you know, Alexis Carrington, you know to find like it's taking all these influences

[01:41:39] But at the same time, it's so unique and it's sort of any imitation of it feels false It's almost like I wish they just cast like Harvey Fierstein or something so it'd be just like completely different or

[01:41:52] I mean a lot of people were arguing they should have cast a man Which I think there's a really solid argument there, especially since it Visually the character is modeled after divine, right? Yeah

[01:42:05] You know, but but I also think like did either of you see the Lizzo video Uh, yeah, yeah Like like it became so yeah Yeah, it became such a meme sort of thing that I was just like, okay

[01:42:18] But are we actually like gonna cast her and then I watched it and it was just like no You know what she actually would do this one. She was just like Disney. Why won't you take my meeting? I want to play Ursula and then they wouldn't respond

[01:42:31] So she just posted a video where she painted herself up like Ursula and saying seconds of it and nailed it And she was like no one's reached out to me

[01:42:41] And then they just announced, you know, like oh the Melissa McCarthy is in advanced like I think they already were deep On that road. Yeah, that's too bad because right. I mean that does I don't know look Yeah, again, we'll see the movie and honest and again

[01:42:56] I have such hope no I have no hope for that movie anyway But there's five seconds. I just watched the Lizzo thing for five seconds. I'm like, that's a good vibe I don't know that seems cool

[01:43:07] It's just it feels like Ursula has to be in her like in order to do it well if it's not This you know Pat Carroll and what she's doing. Yeah, it has to be its own thing It's the one calculation

[01:43:21] I think they made correctly with the Guy Ritchie Aladdin was just like Will Smith is the right choice on that level Of just like you got to find someone who has their own thing but has an entirely different thing because you're never gonna have

[01:43:36] You know someone try to replicate Robin Williams and have it not be upsetting and Melissa McCarthy just feels like the wrong thing the other the other thing I guess I guess like Captain Hook is the first Disney villain who pops. I'm really looking through The history of Disney

[01:43:56] Because like the early ones that the villains don't matter that much You're sure the wicked queen and snow white or whatever like they like Crucial to the renaissance movies is that you kind of are rooting for the villain like every time they're scheming right like jafar

[01:44:09] Scar like, you know, these are I mean even Gaston like they're fun. Yeah, they have good songs They have a lot of humor and like it's not like that's completely unheard of in the old like obviously

[01:44:20] Maleficent is a very compelling. I was gonna say hook and Maleficent are the first two who are kind of alluring I think the one the first one who may be I mean the problem Cruella is so Downright villainous, but she's also super compelling

[01:44:34] Yeah, right and super cool like so there's her as well and that's all post princess. That's all in the you know early the 60s um, but I do think uh, radigan who we discussed last week and and

[01:44:50] Ursula it that's that's the new model like this is gonna be almost a Secondary protagonist and that thing of like they gotta have a song. They got to be funny and scary Yes

[01:45:05] And I think poor unfortunate souls is the best villain song. I think I prefer it to gaston No, of course never Gaston's great. I mean it's not like I don't like antlers and all of my decorating is I mean Um Jafar doesn't get a song

[01:45:28] So, um, but uh, it's it's some good shit. Yeah very good shit So, yeah, I mean, I don't know it's like I mean we've kind of like we've been tackling this from bunch of different

[01:45:38] The things we haven't talked about are under the sea and kiss the girl for sure Yeah, but apart from that right like are there other right? Well, they're they're in the ocean that came up I think they are under oh, they're under the

[01:45:52] Dussy yeah, yeah, yeah, that number is Dossy That number is just so Fucking wild Like you really yeah, but also the lyrics the lyrics are so great the lyrics are so insane and also just the

[01:46:14] Like the visual what they're doing with all the fish and yeah, you know the rapid cutting Like which is sort of weird for disney where it like speeds up as it goes along And you have this semi busby berkeley energy, which I know

[01:46:29] Yeah, right sort of perfect on like with br guest, but like it You know you have there's so many different fish. I don't know that's what I was gonna say Like be our guest really kind of heightens this because they have a much bigger budget

[01:46:43] They're a lot of technical breakthroughs you're able to do sort of larger Choreography and this number they have to sort of establish through a lot of editing because they just don't have

[01:46:54] The the power the infrastructure the time the resources to do like a big group shot of 80 fish all dancing Perfectly choreographed with each other. So it's all these weird little vignettes You know, it's all these weird little like close two shots of a couple of fish

[01:47:12] These lyrics that are specifically referencing just the two or three fish you're seeing on screen at that moment The rhythm is all established through editing more than dancing Um, but it's just such a fucking jam and it's also so wild that it's like here's like

[01:47:29] You know Howard ashen's coming in. He's like look this is the the cornerstones of emotional storytelling through Song the I want song this and that and also just a song where a fucking Crab tells you how cool

[01:47:45] What is your favorite lyric what is your favorite lyric and under the sea because mine is Nobody beat us fry us and eat us in fricca z In fricca z

[01:47:56] Which is very funny. Um, i'm pulling it up right here. So I don't get the words wrong david. What's your favorite? I mean, there's so many Uh good options such as the trout rocking out like I like the when he starts going like the ray heat can play

[01:48:11] The ling zone the strings like when he starts going through different fish species the chubb play the tub You know all that the fluke is the duke of soul. Um

[01:48:21] But I don't think there's anything better than hot crustacean band like I don't think it can be underrated that Man uh that ashman was like that's gonna be a button like I'm gonna fish hot crustacean band is gonna Work in a song for five year olds

[01:48:37] Like they'll they'll they'll sing that the one that made me giggle Out loud is even the sturgeon and the ray they get the urge and start to play

[01:48:46] I think so much of it is the animation performance there because you see the two fish kind of looking at each other all Or they're going and then they like they break down. They're like come on. What if we just jammed right now?

[01:48:57] Yeah, we in luck here down in the muck here Not not to keep referencing bob, but he kept me good last night. He was like can you credit sebbastian with for the ska revival? um, thanks to

[01:49:09] There's an argument which is a good point real big fish might line up like age wise with this movie Real big fish real small crab Um, I sebbastians my favorite character in this movie. I find his design So incredible especially because like feet

[01:49:28] What but even just his face. It's just like the proportions He's like all brow Uh everything about him, but my single favorite moment in the entire movie is that like moment He has to himself or he's like i'm wasting the best years of my life

[01:49:43] Like I should be writing symphonies like this whole idea it adds so much weird emotional weight to under the sea this song that otherwise feels a little frivolous Because it's like this guy is stuck in this fucking shitty administrative job

[01:50:00] Like looking after his boss's daughter. He wants to be fucking orchestrating A hot christen band This is the whole thing His role he it makes no sense that this guy Initially, he's the scold who tells ariel to stop worrying about the human world then he's the fun

[01:50:21] Band leader who's like life's great under the sea and you're like this guy's right life is great under the sea And then later he's like dude. I get it. You just gotta make out like and and then he's like

[01:50:31] Raising his eyebrows and singing a song about kissing and you're like, yeah, I get this energy from sabash. That makes sense It follows like he works it off

[01:50:39] And then he has a whole sequence escaping the le poisson guy and as esther pointed out to me essentially murders him And The movie with murder I know like or at least maiming he like he He injures him

[01:50:56] What song he he all of his teeth fall out and then sabash just like hops off the boat and is like fuck you i'm out But but like I like I had teachers in high school who were like, you know like pulled me aside after class

[01:51:09] And they were like dude look Between you and I I think you're funny, but come on man. I can't support this shit You know Like first of all you don't do any homework and second of all we're in a class like objectively I think you're funny

[01:51:25] But enough of this, you know and I feel like sabash is that kind of thing where he's just like look it's my job Okay, I can't I cannot co-sign this and eventually he just gets broken down

[01:51:37] Right that's I like that I mean as we know she gives up her voice. She's got to kiss him These are the rules they got a kiss within three days. You think she could just fucking kiss him, but I guess do they have to like

[01:51:48] It has to be true love It has to be true love Um, but I then I do love that right then in the third act There's literally a scene where sabash is like did they make out yet? Like they're all just talking about it Yeah

[01:52:02] And it's not happening. So he's like guess I better like put on the best fuck Performance in my life. Yeah a kiss symphony, but that's what I'm saying. There's like this great

[01:52:13] Sebastian narrative where like there is she helps him realize that like I can't be wasting any more of my best years Like stuck in this fucking perfunctory gig It's like you're saying they're right There's that cool moment before kiss the girls where he's like because uh,

[01:52:31] Scuttle squawking because yeah scuttle. He's making an effort and he he like dives down and he like breaks a read to make a conductor Stick yeah, and then goes back up and he gets the ducks in the turtles. He's right. You know, he's like, all right

[01:52:45] Let's let's let's let's make an effort here, but that's I'm talking about that No, I agree one line about the symphonies makes the world of difference because suddenly you're just like This isn't just oh, Sebastian's songs are good because he's in a musical

[01:52:58] It's like no Sebastian's thing is this is his life. This is his passion And you know what about kiss the girls and now and kiss the girls Jesus. That's the working freeman movie kiss the girl um You know, he's like percussion strings right? He's like

[01:53:16] Introing everything right and then he goes Woods and he's not talking to anyone and he's talking about himself and he's got this face where he looks so serious Yeah, and you're like, yeah, he's fine like he's connected with what you're talking about again

[01:53:30] His passion is back. Yeah the spark is awoken right this this movie could be called has Sebastian got his groove back It should be And I'm glad that you said it I wish he was in more movies like I watched con air today as well

[01:53:45] And I'm like why did Dave Schiphol stop being in movies? Why didn't Sebastian play tom hanks's best friend in some movie? Oh god, and you know as kiss the girl like this is a sexy movie not in a Gross way well probably

[01:54:05] Ben was just browsing db and r but like Like you know the reprise of part of your world where she You know sings the final line and the wave crashes behind her and it's like a gasmic thing Like the movie is you know, it's like playing with passion

[01:54:22] In ways that disney movies are you know disney movies usually very chased Also, I straight up just like ched a single tear on that moment. I feel like

[01:54:31] That moment is so good. It's hitting real hard and locked down the whole aerial like I want to be out there I want to be living the fuck out of here. Yeah, I'm aerial. I big mood. I feel you

[01:54:43] I also I love uh like I love a reprise so much like I love the sort of swelling and this one is just the best I mean, I also love the like the beauty and the beast

[01:54:56] Reprise of bow but like this one's the best like I don't know when I don't know how but I know something's starting right now Yeah, it's that's what I fuck. That's what I showed you down for the opening

[01:55:06] I should have done that one other rather than the passage I did I don't know how but I don't know It's just starting right now Yeah, uh, oh I'd still do pot of their cast. I just think that's the better intro Um, uh moana does that really well

[01:55:20] too The way they build right right right Because like you burn the big emotional song early on and you're like that's it and it's like no no no Hold on they'll they'll bring it back Absolutely um

[01:55:34] So it is just kind of wild that the then the remaining 40 minutes of this movie are aerials a mute and it's a lot of Shit with Sebastian trying not to get eaten and the dog and like

[01:55:44] And trying to get him to kiss yeah, especially to try to get him to kiss or not get eaten Ursula is cause and trouble is a human. There's a whole sequence at dinner where aerial Combs are here with a fork and blows smoke into lord stuffington's face

[01:56:00] They do this sort of perfunctory like she's spunky girl when he takes her on the tour of the town and she like Dimes under the carriage and she takes control and they jump over the big thing and the Right. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. She's got spunk

[01:56:14] So he's like you it sort of makes it makes up for him being like attract into a mute girl That that's the stuff that's very Splash adjacent where I don't understand why they wouldn't want to replicate a movie that was very successful for them

[01:56:27] But I also realized they were trying to make splash two Which I guess ultimately went straight to tv But I think it splash is so much the literal fish out of water comedy That's yeah, that's the stuff for me. None of it's bad, but it's it's

[01:56:44] It's a little less exciting all the sort of like Aerial doesn't understand how to be a human shit now When when things don't work out when the sun sets before they make out Um, and then there's your nightmare where

[01:57:01] Right where triton. Yeah, seriously where triton is like come on enough of this and she uses the contract as a shield Which I always think is really cool where she's like this is literally unbreakable And triton gives it up and she becomes the queen and she's big

[01:57:17] Go ahead esther. Yeah Oh, I just we haven't talked about her souls yet. I like her souls Oh, her little souls such an interesting design And the fact that she just like keeps these like sort of like

[01:57:32] Plants humans um with big eyes and they're sort of yeah, they're like little They're weird as hell and I really love them Um, but is she scary when she's big? Yeah when I was a kid very scared of this. Yeah, it's still scary, right

[01:57:52] Yeah, I think still Ben's got his background right now. It's it's it's just genuinely scary. I mean that's another she's like her voice is crazy Right. She's like you fools. Like she's suddenly like really feeling herself

[01:58:06] She sort of reminds me of like the beetle juice big thing where it's like the Cirque, you know the crab thing Yeah Yes, when uh beetle juice does the the carnival barker like rise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I mean she also it's basically she goes super saiyan

[01:58:23] Like that's what happens. She goes super saiyan, right? She and this is the thing Often in these disney movies. There's really kind of a last act with the villain. It's two minutes. She gets the trident She's like rule number one. I'm 500 feet tall

[01:58:37] Rule number two all you motherfuckers are gonna die And so they just kill her with the boat like right away like it's really quick It's one of those things that I think sometimes like

[01:58:47] I see the broken after effects of like certain shitty screenwriting books where people think like Oh, you need to hit all these story beats and every one of these story beats needs to be of equal

[01:58:59] Screen time you need to give him time, right? Yeah, right and it's like you can hit the thing Like luke skywalkers refusal of the call is 90 seconds. You know, right like ariel going

[01:59:10] Ursula going super saiyan is two minutes like you should hit these beats, but it doesn't have to be a whole fucking to do It it shouldn't be it's like yeah, we all agree Ursula being this big and making this much trouble

[01:59:25] Not a good long-term strategy. We don't want this. Let's ram a boat into her Like right there's just nothing more to be said. Yeah And I do also like that she is motivated to go insane because she flots him and jets him die

[01:59:41] Right and she says my poopies or whatever. Yeah, I think I think that's her exact line I think she says my poopies or whatever I I love the triton moment when sabasha goes back to her and I forget i'm gonna fucking miss quote it

[01:59:58] But where he does kind of a simon cowl thing Yeah, I guess the bad news is how much i'm gonna miss her or whatever But it's a sweet moment. It's also so weird that it's kenneth mars

[02:00:11] It is like a fucking mel brooks company player and is such a goofball Absolutely, it's it's super weird. Uh, he's also um professor screw eyes and we're back at dinosaur stories

[02:00:23] Right, right, but yeah, kenneth mars is franz leapkin and the producers and he's the guy with the arm in uh young frankenstein I do I never realized that wow. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a very odd casting he's also um If you remember in um melkham in the middle

[02:00:42] Where there was the german guy who owned the dude ranch? That's him right that was like one of those weird subplots on melkham in the middle um Anyway, he's good though and like you see that no it's weird again the movie's moving so fast at this point

[02:00:56] We got like four minutes to go and yeah, but it it all I guess it's just all in the characters and how they're animated like ariel's reaction to that feels very genuine right like

[02:01:06] It's all nice. Yeah. Yeah, it's just uh, I don't know the movie gets in and get out It gets out and it gets its business done and a fucking rips Can't argue yeah boy

[02:01:22] It's good shit. Yeah, and it just uh, it becomes the first disney movie to get an academy award nomination of any stripe since Beddops and broomsticks. Oh, okay Right. Yeah, right. No not ever but in decades but but in decades right the brand was so dead

[02:01:38] Yeah, and it wins two oscars for score and for under the sea And kiss the girl is also nominated weirdly part of your world is not Yeah, um and now I don't I even want to it's not like there were other good songs nominated

[02:01:54] I think it was just that uh I I mean sometimes the rules would change as to how many Songs a certain movie could have and it would go up or down in any given year because like lion king was nominated for at least three songs, right?

[02:02:09] Dream girls got three but but I feel like they're constantly fucking with those rules every other year Um, I also think Under the sea just none of these other songs. I could sing a they none of them exist Yeah

[02:02:21] But but under the sea no, I mean under the sea is a banger to be I was gonna say it's also just the the earworm thing That's I think that's the big thing if you're parent who took your kid to see this and you're voting on the oscars

[02:02:32] Like a couple months later You're just like I have not gotten that song out of my head You know the only yes the only thing is And I it's a good win

[02:02:41] It's just that after that they always give it to the ballad beauty and the beast whole new world Kenny for the love tonight are the winner and it's like you know, those are the best fun song one. Yeah But this is his only

[02:02:53] The only oscar he was alive for right the other. Yeah, I believe that's right, right? He didn't because he died before Beauty and the Beast. Um, yeah It's wild my fun personal stories my parents actually went to the golden globes that year because

[02:03:09] My dad directed many episodes of a television show called empty nest Which was a golden girl spin-off and richard also a tv show, uh called the in-laws uh dan this farina go on Yeah Yes I and

[02:03:32] They ran into howard there, but also I was there because I was In utero so I wow hey We stan He is I mean, I highly recommend the the howard documentary on disney plus for people who haven't seen it

[02:03:49] It's really good. It's really good especially for these two episodes this and Aladdin that we're doing But it is just it is one of those Artistic losses that is is pretty difficult to even calculate when you think about like this is his first

[02:04:05] Thing that really permeates the pop culture at large and then he's dead You know within like three years With within two years. Yeah, I mean like he he told men committee had aids

[02:04:19] The night they won the oscar for this movie and right right two years right a year later He was dead. It's a it's just kind of impossible to even imagine what he would have done Uh, they would have been 10 disney movies, right? Yeah, exactly

[02:04:35] right, um, it's it's so wild and I do feel like as I I don't know. I mean, it's we we talked about the AIDS crisis when we did the philadelphia an episode but but it's it's like it was such a

[02:04:51] Uniquely tragic thing in terms of how many artistic voices we lost because of the specific, you know obviously the communities that were affected most severely by Uh, the AIDS crisis in a way. We're like I I don't know if there's been the the tragedy of that scale in

[02:05:12] times, you know If there's like a clear like it's hard to reckon with right? Yeah I don't know. It's just certainly watching the ashman documentary however many months ago when it launched I couldn't stop thinking of uh weird weird cultural parallels

[02:05:26] Um, I think there's a thing with this movie in terms of its box office performance That it happens a couple times in this era of disney where they have like two movies and one of them

[02:05:37] They think is the big deal and one of them. They're just like, uh, who knows And right and the who knows movie always Right, so oliver and company was the big move right? They were like this is we're making a younger more modern

[02:05:50] It's pop driven. It's all this shit and then little mermaid became the big thing. It was uh, I mean I know the big thought was would this be the first animated movie to make a hundred million dollars and it came close and then that

[02:06:07] threshold is finally crossed by Beauty and the Beast Aladdin becomes the first to make 200 million dollars, but this did 85 first round. It did it Correct. It did 85 million dollars domestic And I guess it's final worldwide total probably including everything is like

[02:06:25] 230 or yeah, yeah, right before it comes out on video and whatever I was saying right before we recorded they put this out on video within six months of it coming out in theaters Which was seen as radical was treated like it was the hbo max move um

[02:06:39] But the other two examples of the thing I was talking about treasure planet lilo and stitch was that same deal uh, and um, Pocahontas and lion king Right. That's that's the one I always think of right. They were like lion king Who knows? Um, Pocahontas obviously will kill

[02:06:54] For us, but that's the thing they're thinking to movies back, you know, that's what it always is, you know, it makes sense obviously um The movie opened number three on november 17th 1989 because it opened only on a thousand screens because disney especially back then

[02:07:09] loved to do a rollout Um, so it's not number three. It's not number one of the box office griffin number one at the box office is Opening huge. I gotta say nine 16 million dollars in 1989 is is a solid opening

[02:07:24] For a movie that is universally thought of as a stinker interesting Was a sort of a big passion project for a giant movie star that I guess did not bomb financially but was Uh, you know razy

[02:07:40] Winner, you know what I mean? Is it an eddie murphy movie? It is it's it's uh, It's not harlem knights. Is it it is harlem knights

[02:07:49] Yeah, see I argued about this with you recently because I feel like harlem knights came up in some other episode harlem knights was Back to the future part It wasn't hit right back to the future part two is a couple weeks later. It's a week later

[02:08:00] That's the thing like harlem knights did not ignite the world, but it was a hit made money. Yeah But people were just like no eddie. You've gone too far eddie. You can't direct you can't make dramas eddie Like what are you doing right like it was like this

[02:08:14] Just classic. Ah the star is overcooked I don't know 89 is also like the first modern box office here where you have like big opening Last crusade batman ghostbusters 2. Yeah That backs the future to back to the future too. Yeah and little mermaid. Um

[02:08:32] So yeah, so right so a lot of these are in the back to the future game So number two griffin high concept comedy Director we will cover one day Hmm Star comeback It's a star comeback Oh god, you devil It's not oh god. You devil Um star comeback

[02:08:56] 19 I might make that my new go-to bad answer. It's a good one versus like Casper a spirited beginning Uh, yeah, no, I think that one's uh, I'll play it out. So I'm gonna say my next guess is casper a spirited beginning

[02:09:11] You know, we could do the oh god franchise if you want. Yeah, let's do that patreon one day Yeah, I want to uh, no longer have a stable income. Let's do the oh god franchise

[02:09:22] I want to absolutely look at gift to us in the mouth. Can we do all three oh god movies? We haven't we haven't Recorded them yet, but the announcement of of croc dundee went over okay. Yeah. Yeah People are less flummox than I thought they would be

[02:09:38] But I'm also just like it's three. I don't know. What do we come on give us the mulligan Um, come on. Okay. Okay. Okay. So it's a it's a director will probably cover one day Is the director primarily a comedy director? Yes

[02:09:52] Um, and it's a big star comeback It is although he's not like on the poster because though it's a high concept comedy So the concept is the real star. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, of course. It's look who's talking Look who's talking. Yeah Look who's talking

[02:10:10] Who's talking griffin the baby the baby is talking Do you ever think about how solid of a premise that is for a movie? I think about it all the time I think it's pretty good. Then I think I think about it so often

[02:10:22] She's talked about it too that she just like You know like had a huge hit and then a big flop and then hollywood wasn't hiring her anymore And she was like I need a premise that's such a slam dunk that no one won't green light it

[02:10:34] That like Amy heckerling to be clear. Yeah. Yeah. Heckerling was just like I dare you to not make this movie with this premise Yeah, I mean you can't not and there's all this stuff about story and what's his name I don't know the guy like

[02:10:50] Robert mckeyne is all about yeah, there you go. Yeah that guy But then it's like what if You could understand what babies said you're saying like throw the books out Yeah abandoned the formula Movie should just be about shit like what if a baby?

[02:11:07] It is it is weird like what was the thing I was looking at I I forget why I went down this rabbit hole But in terms of like the line that is so thin between like The biggest comedies of the 70s 80s and 90s and movies that

[02:11:22] Destroyed people's careers, right where you're just like any which way but loose like That's such a flip of a coin that audiences like that But then like stop or my mom will shoot is just like ruinous to Sloan um, okay

[02:11:41] Number four at the box office. Okay, uh is a comedy drama big hit enduring classic I would say Uh sort of the prototypical chick flick, but I mean that in a good way obviously got it. Uh, it's oh god you devil no, it's it's

[02:12:02] It's either steel magnolia is a fragrant tomatoes. It's steel magnolia. So probably getting green tomatoes is sort of at 90s back to the WPA theater There you go Steel Magnolia originated at the WPA theater with margo martindale So did you that's right? Did your mom discover ellen green?

[02:12:22] I guess I mean she gave her the role. Yeah that role But I don't know the story about like how ellen came to them

[02:12:30] I do know I have like I I can tell you something about the casting process that I don't think my mom would live on the record like By after this Okay, cool. Oh, okay. Sure. Um number five at the box office before we go off mic is

[02:12:47] an animated film Another film will possibly probably cover one day. So it's a blue director. It's a bluth Um, I'm trying to think because they were always the blutes in the disney's were always

[02:12:59] Haired in this right. They're always matched against each other. I would say this movie is a flop Um, it's sort of his first big flop Um, it's a movie that truly kind of just unsettled me as a kid and I didn't like it at all

[02:13:13] And I would love to rewatch it. Is it rats of nim? No, right? Secret of him fucking rules. That's his first movie. This is his fourth movie. I get his timeline fucked up Okay, and it's not American tail

[02:13:26] No, that's the second movie it goes secret of name American tail land before time. It's not land before time Right, uh, it's not thumb belina. Is it? No, that's later, right? It's not rocket doodle turning point. No, that's this movie is right, uh, it's

[02:13:42] It's not trolling central park is later. What is this now you're just naming? I know I know I'm trying to process a balloon nation That's right. I it's obviously it's not tight naïve. It's not honest. Yeah, right. Okay, right

[02:13:54] What's the one I'm not fucking thinking about like this one? It's famous. I feel like you're gonna really feel like an idiot This is uh, you know, this is a pretty famous one. Is it all dogs go to heaven? That's right. Yeah, I'll really upsetting film. Yeah, just

[02:14:10] Crazy That's the thing is with little mermaid um People are like disney's over bluth beat him. You know, like he's had these three hits. Yeah And so they're like, yeah, fuck disney. They can't get this tail spin

[02:14:26] It's all bluth baby and the disney's like we're gonna do a beautiful musical about the fairy tale And and bluth's like, yeah, what if I do a movie about how dogs die? Right. It's like about like a uh, a fucking like scummy like pussyhound dog Right

[02:14:43] Yeah, all dogs go to heaven is fucking bizarre. That's an example of a movie where I uh went like how dare they with the title Exactly. I was almost like, can we turn this off? Like I just I can't handle this Absolutely not

[02:14:57] Which all the more reason to cover bluth because it's that's the whole thing with bluth where you're like as a kid You're like, I love 90 of this 10 of this. I kind of wish you could erase it from my memory

[02:15:08] Right. I'm too freaked out and it's it's the fucking Bert Reynolds crew. It's Reynolds Delawise, Lottie Anderson, Charles Nelson, Riley Yeah, and Delawise Absolutely crushes it. I will say yeah, just completely annihilate But then the sequel is Charlie Sheen and Delawise Reynolds doesn't come back

[02:15:28] But Delawise does I believe I have seen all dogs go to heaven too. Yes. Yeah. Wow Um, yeah, I mean and also we have to mention that the uh villain in all darks Go to heaven is a pitbull named carface

[02:15:47] Wow, I block that out of my memory boy. Um some other movies Uh, there's a movie called dad Oh Yeah, that's the jack lemon dead dancing and Ethan hawk movie hawk, right baby hawk and lemons got like really good old age makeup in it

[02:16:07] Uh, right and then you've got um prancer In that uh, sort of like sort of slightly cheapo fantasy movie boom of the 80s Is is dad David Gary Goldberg? Is it like it's like the one movie of someone who didn't really make movies. It is a

[02:16:25] Gary David Goldberg. Yes, the of course creator of family tithes in spin city. Um, that's funny. Yeah. Anyway, right Yeah, that's and you know the bear is uh in the top 10 crimes and misdemeanors And uh a movie called staying together with um Sean Aston

[02:16:45] And melinda dylan and stalker chanting it kind of looks like a stand by me kind of thing if you say so Okay, um, we're done. Uh little mermaid a film uh that uh Works It sure does Life under the sea better than anything they got up there. Yeah

[02:17:07] Uh ester do you do you have any final thoughts? No, it's just like this movie is so important to me and it remains important to me Oh, and I have to acknowledge that griffin's background this whole time has been the um poster from the little mermaid live

[02:17:27] Um, which aired on abc shaggy and picture john samos doing the most in unhinged Let's put us on I watched this live john samos was out of control and shaggy was off key the whole time as about it was wild

[02:17:43] But the but the casting is pretty good like i mean latifah's ursula is better and that's good Cravelo as ariel. I like a lot yes, but um Fucking uh stamos as the chef makes renais over chinois look like fucking renais falconetti from the passion of jonah varkry

[02:18:05] You're like this is like a subtle in moving work Stamos is off the chain in that thing david david What you just said is so funny. I can't even process it I'm not even laughing

[02:18:19] I'm just like I feel like my head is spinning around the fact that you landed that that you went from renais to renais Oh my god The episode's over ester. Thank you so much for being on the show

[02:18:37] Everyone uh should buy your book a field guide to internet boyfriends Um, I'm very happy that that christin stewart was included. I think that's the kind of outside the box thinking we need these days Uh, I I think put america back on track She's not considered

[02:18:54] Within the internet boyfriend pantheon, but she absolutely belongs to be there. It's the exact same sort of uh parasocial relationship We have with her

[02:19:01] Um, and uh, you're the best in the biz and i'm glad we we finally let you talk about a movie that doesn't make you angry Thank you. Thank you Hey Um, and thank you all for listening

[02:19:15] Uh, please remember to rate review and subscribe. Thanks to joe bow and pat rounds for our artwork Music for this show by the great american novel go to blankies dot reddit dot com for some real Nerdy shit into our Shopify page. We could buy merch

[02:19:32] Uh, comedy point coins restock. Hopefully they haven't sold out yet And if they have sold out again, then we certainly will be ordering more but you can get the uh talking the walk 2020 shirt there um tune in next week for Aladdin another movie that Was successful a hit

[02:19:55] Has had Some degree of cultural staying power right Uh, unlike the crocodile dundee movies, which you can currently hear us talk about on patreon That's right. Uh, and as always I I don't understand Why king triton's nipples remind david of fathers Big nymphs big dad