The Matrix Reloaded

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David

[00:00:05] Blank Check with what to say or to expect

[00:00:13] All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check

[00:00:20] Hello, Neo. I am The Architect. I created The Matrix. I've been waiting for you.

[00:00:24] You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness,

[00:00:27] you remain irrevocably human. Ergo some of my answers you will understand,

[00:00:30] and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent,

[00:00:34] you may or may not realize this is also irrelevant. Life is the sum of a remainder

[00:00:38] of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix.

[00:00:41] You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts,

[00:00:44] I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.

[00:00:48] While it remains a burden to seducesly avoid it, it is not unexpected

[00:00:51] and thus not beyond a measure of control, which has led you next-herably here.

[00:00:55] The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly

[00:00:59] to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

[00:01:02] It is your undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic creating fluctuations

[00:01:06] and even the most simplistic equations. The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect.

[00:01:10] It was a work of art, flawless, and sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure.

[00:01:14] The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence

[00:01:17] of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it based on your history

[00:01:21] to more accurately affect the very grotesqueries of your nature.

[00:01:24] However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer

[00:01:27] looted me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection.

[00:01:32] Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another intuitive program

[00:01:36] initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche.

[00:01:39] If I am the father of the Matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

[00:01:42] As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution where nearly 99.9% of all test subjects

[00:01:46] accepted the program as long as they were given a choice.

[00:01:48] Even if they were only aware of the choice at a near and conscious level,

[00:01:51] well, the answer functioned. It was obviously fundamentally flawed.

[00:01:54] Thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly

[00:01:57] that if it left unchecked might threaten the system itself.

[00:01:59] Ergo, those that refuse the program while a minority, if unchecked,

[00:02:02] constitute an escalating probability of podcast!

[00:02:05] I'm not into that. You know why?

[00:02:08] You remove Neo's dialogue.

[00:02:10] You remove Neo's dialogue.

[00:02:12] Well, I didn't want to give you stuff to memorize.

[00:02:14] That speech doesn't work without Neo's dialogue.

[00:02:17] Do you know why I cut the speech out at that point?

[00:02:20] Why?

[00:02:21] Because that was the point where I was out of breath.

[00:02:23] That was the test to see how long into it I could go before I was about to pass out.

[00:02:27] It doesn't work without Neo's dialogue.

[00:02:29] Okay, well, you want me to give you some sides for the day

[00:02:33] and you have to fucking memorize like six lines?

[00:02:36] We can roll with what you just did

[00:02:38] or we could cut it off at Neo's first line, which is crucial.

[00:02:41] But whatever, whatever, whatever you want to do.

[00:02:44] My name's Griffin.

[00:02:45] I'm David.

[00:02:46] Welcome to...

[00:02:47] Blank Check.

[00:02:49] With Griffin and David.

[00:02:50] That's right.

[00:02:51] The main series is called...

[00:02:53] The Podchowski Caster.

[00:02:55] I honestly...

[00:02:56] I know, I always trip up in my mind for a second.

[00:02:58] No, I was just gonna say I verbally feel like I just walked up a flight of stairs.

[00:03:01] I'm like verbally winded right now.

[00:03:03] You were trying to piss me off,

[00:03:04] but I think you actually just made yourself angry.

[00:03:06] I made myself furious.

[00:03:08] I feel terrible right now.

[00:03:09] What a great scene.

[00:03:10] I mean, I was annoyed because I was very annoyed that you cut off Neo's crucial dialogue.

[00:03:15] That was the only part that annoyed me.

[00:03:18] By the way, I made it through, I think, 30% of that.

[00:03:21] Oh yeah, that's the other thing.

[00:03:22] I was like...

[00:03:23] Cause I know this movie so well, I was like,

[00:03:25] this is too long.

[00:03:26] Like it's legit, it's actually too long.

[00:03:28] There's no way he can do it.

[00:03:29] There was no way I was gonna make it to the end,

[00:03:30] but I wanted to figure out what the right point was

[00:03:32] and the point was.

[00:03:33] I wasn't even listening.

[00:03:34] Where did you actually cut out?

[00:03:35] No, I just fucking...

[00:03:36] I literally felt like I was about to faint

[00:03:37] and I just saw the word podcast.

[00:03:38] All right, well, I'm sorry

[00:03:40] and I'm glad that no one's listening to this episode now.

[00:03:44] Zero percent retention.

[00:03:46] I will say a couple of our fans,

[00:03:49] the Blankies, David Dawgs, the Hothogs, the Griffheads.

[00:03:54] They... I messed that up, right?

[00:03:56] Hothogs...

[00:03:57] Where the fuck did it?

[00:03:59] Had said, had prodded me and be like...

[00:04:02] You gotta do the architect?

[00:04:03] You gotta do the architect, Steve?

[00:04:04] I mean as we were just saying,

[00:04:05] there's no tagline for the movie

[00:04:07] that we're gonna discuss.

[00:04:08] There's no obvious catchphrase.

[00:04:09] No, you know what the tagline was?

[00:04:11] In theaters May 2nd.

[00:04:13] Well hey, that's when it was in theaters.

[00:04:15] That's when they needed it.

[00:04:16] It was the Matrix 2.

[00:04:17] They didn't need a tagline.

[00:04:19] They just said, hey, you folks want to see more Matrix

[00:04:21] and everyone in the world said yeah.

[00:04:23] Uh-huh.

[00:04:24] Everyone's like yep.

[00:04:25] More of that.

[00:04:26] And here's one guy who was ready to see more Matrix.

[00:04:28] Producer Ben.

[00:04:29] Yeah.

[00:04:30] Producer Ben.

[00:04:31] Ben Hosley.

[00:04:32] People are just like...

[00:04:33] The Ben Dooser.

[00:04:34] No, come on.

[00:04:35] Swipe.

[00:04:36] They're staying with us.

[00:04:37] Poet Laureate, Mr. Positive.

[00:04:38] I don't mean about Ben.

[00:04:39] I just mean about Hard Drive.

[00:04:40] No, no, I mean yeah.

[00:04:41] No, it's like you start off with that weird opening

[00:04:43] and now you got this long set of nicknames.

[00:04:46] The tiebreaker.

[00:04:47] Right.

[00:04:48] Birthday Benning.

[00:04:49] Yeah.

[00:04:50] The fuckmaster.

[00:04:51] Yes.

[00:04:52] He's not Professor Crispy.

[00:04:53] Right, I always confuse which one he is in an hour.

[00:04:55] Yep.

[00:04:56] He is Producer Ben Kenobi.

[00:04:57] Yep.

[00:04:58] Kylo Ben.

[00:04:59] And Ben Nyechamalan.

[00:05:00] And Ben Nyechamalan.

[00:05:01] And I would please beg our entire audience

[00:05:05] to wish him a hardy hello fennel right now.

[00:05:07] Hello fennel.

[00:05:08] I'm listing an imaginary hat off of my head.

[00:05:10] That was what that signal was.

[00:05:11] Hello fennel.

[00:05:12] Ben is a noted hat wearer.

[00:05:14] I am and I'm also very much a proponent

[00:05:17] of getting our merch in order.

[00:05:19] Yeah.

[00:05:20] So maybe a hello fennel hat to a tip of a fennel to you, sir.

[00:05:25] Yeah, it makes sense to me.

[00:05:26] Yeah.

[00:05:27] I want to point out I think every merchandise idea we've had so far

[00:05:29] is related to Ben and only Ben.

[00:05:31] Yes, it should be.

[00:05:32] We're just going to make this podcast really.

[00:05:34] Make a bunch of Ben merch.

[00:05:35] No, no, we did say though erotic fan fiction coloring books.

[00:05:38] Oh yeah, but we still haven't gotten that.

[00:05:40] We need, yeah.

[00:05:41] Now we're going to make this happen soon enough.

[00:05:43] We just got some ventilation here.

[00:05:44] I love it.

[00:05:45] I think for literally the first time ever during our recording.

[00:05:48] 2016.

[00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:50] All right.

[00:05:51] Usually recording this podcast feels like we're in the movie Cube.

[00:05:53] Good, good, good pull, good pull.

[00:05:55] And no one's spraying acid in our faces though.

[00:05:57] I remember one of the cube rooms sprayed acid on you in Cube.

[00:06:01] Uh, God, we should go to Cube again.

[00:06:04] Remember, let's do the Cube franchise.

[00:06:05] Cube, Cube, two hypercubes.

[00:06:07] Is that what it's called?

[00:06:09] And then I believe there was a prequel Cube zero or something like that.

[00:06:12] Yeah, can I throw it?

[00:06:13] I think all sequels should be called blank to hyper blank.

[00:06:16] So this by that logic should have been called the matrix to hyper matrix.

[00:06:22] All right.

[00:06:23] That would have been fine.

[00:06:24] It would have been cool.

[00:06:25] So gents, we're here today where this is our podcast.

[00:06:27] We discussing the careers of the Wachowskis, the great directors.

[00:06:30] This is the Podchowski casters.

[00:06:32] I did name it.

[00:06:33] But it's okay.

[00:06:34] It was 45 minutes ago.

[00:06:36] And we're here today in a room much like the architect's headquarters.

[00:06:41] Very similar.

[00:06:42] White sort of Cube windowless, no TVs on the walls though to discuss the film.

[00:06:47] The Matrix Reloaded.

[00:06:48] The Matrix Reloaded.

[00:06:49] Yes.

[00:06:50] Second Matrix film released.

[00:06:51] I think it was May 2nd or May 1st?

[00:06:53] It was May 7th.

[00:06:55] No, no, no, May 15th.

[00:06:57] The premiere was at Man Village Theater.

[00:06:59] I remember being the first week of May.

[00:07:00] You know what?

[00:07:01] I think Wikipedia might be wrong for the first time.

[00:07:04] No, no, it's not.

[00:07:05] May 15th?

[00:07:06] Okay.

[00:07:07] May 15th, 2003.

[00:07:08] Correct.

[00:07:09] It was the third film by the Wachowskis.

[00:07:11] And it was, I mean, highly anticipated.

[00:07:14] Quite hyped.

[00:07:15] It was made in the era of Lord of the Rings and a little later was the Pirate Sequel

[00:07:21] where it was like, hey guys, let's make them all.

[00:07:23] Let's make a couple.

[00:07:24] Let's make them back to back.

[00:07:25] Let's do it all in one big soup.

[00:07:27] So I believe the first film to ever do that was Back to the Future 2.

[00:07:32] Right.

[00:07:33] And there had been examples before where they would shoot pieces of one movie while filming

[00:07:37] another.

[00:07:38] Yeah, Superman did that.

[00:07:39] No, Superman I think was genuinely intended to be one and two.

[00:07:43] And the only reason they didn't do it exactly like that was because they fired Richard Donner.

[00:07:46] So I think Superman is, I mean, I'm sure way back in Hollywood history, they used to

[00:07:51] do that all the time where they're like, we're going to do six Captain Jack movie.

[00:07:55] Right.

[00:07:56] Well, and the Universal Horror movies, I mean, there were shit where they filmed

[00:07:58] Spanish Dracula on the same set as American Dracula.

[00:08:01] That's going to go to waste.

[00:08:02] Come on, just do one a day, one at night.

[00:08:04] I don't know.

[00:08:05] I believe what happened with Superman if I'm not mistaken was their plan was they had

[00:08:09] both scripts that were going to do both simultaneously.

[00:08:11] And they went over schedule and they were like...

[00:08:14] Well, and also they donned or clashed with the studio and stuff like that.

[00:08:17] Right.

[00:08:18] But the idea was they were like, okay, we're not going to have a time to do both

[00:08:20] right now.

[00:08:21] Let's do like one and a third.

[00:08:23] And then we'll take a break and then we'll come back and we'll do two.

[00:08:26] Because that's the reason like Gene Hackman's barely in Superman 2, right?

[00:08:29] He was like, fuck you.

[00:08:30] And they shot the third already.

[00:08:32] Yeah.

[00:08:33] So like the clash then happened and then they were like, you're not coming back

[00:08:35] Richard Lester and new writers to come back and do the second half of 2.

[00:08:39] Back to Future 2 and 3 was the first time we're like...

[00:08:41] They just, you know, we're going to make both sequels back to back and release

[00:08:44] them same year or were they a year apart?

[00:08:46] I think it might have been like a July February type thing.

[00:08:49] I mean, they were like seven months apart.

[00:08:51] And then of course, right around this period which we're discussing,

[00:08:55] the Lord of the Rings movies were just wrapping up Return of the King came

[00:08:58] out in the movie.

[00:08:59] And they were all three at the same time.

[00:09:00] They'd made them all at the same time and think they'd gone back

[00:09:02] and added stuff they would do reshoots for every movie.

[00:09:05] They do like a...

[00:09:06] Yeah, two-month pickup stuff, yeah.

[00:09:08] But they had shot everything in this like massive chunk.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:12] Which is to this day kind of staggering to think about.

[00:09:15] And I'm not even a huge fan of those movies but it's like an

[00:09:18] accomplishment you can't deny.

[00:09:20] But you know the amazing story that like changes film history is...

[00:09:24] Shoot.

[00:09:25] Yeah.

[00:09:26] It was similar to this.

[00:09:27] Back to the Future was, you know, so beloved everyone wanted Back to the Future 2.

[00:09:31] Yeah, of course, right.

[00:09:32] Zemeckis and Gale bring a script to Universal and it was like 7,000 pages long

[00:09:37] because they had like 50 alternate ideas for what they could do.

[00:09:40] Yeah, I mean that's the problem with a time travel movie, right?

[00:09:42] You can kind of do anything.

[00:09:43] Right.

[00:09:44] So they were like, what if we go to the 60s?

[00:09:45] What if we go back to the 50s?

[00:09:46] What if we go to the future?

[00:09:47] What if we go to the Old West?

[00:09:48] This and that.

[00:09:49] And I think someone like they one day went to someone like,

[00:09:51] what if we did two instead of one?

[00:09:53] Yeah.

[00:09:54] They went back to the 60s and a half and did this.

[00:09:55] And then weirdly made one movie time traveling all over the place,

[00:09:58] one movie just a Western.

[00:10:00] Yeah.

[00:10:01] So it's weird.

[00:10:02] I think we're not talking back to the Future 2,

[00:10:04] but I do think it was detrimental to both movies

[00:10:07] with the decision they made.

[00:10:08] I love two.

[00:10:10] I even like two with the cliffhanger.

[00:10:12] Yeah.

[00:10:13] I like two a lot.

[00:10:16] I like three a lot.

[00:10:17] I just feel like I would have liked both more,

[00:10:19] you know, in different circumstances.

[00:10:20] Yeah, I think possibly.

[00:10:21] They're flawed movies.

[00:10:22] The first time we're like at the end credits.

[00:10:24] It's tough to follow a perfect movie.

[00:10:25] Yeah, one of the few 100% perfect films ever.

[00:10:28] And you know what?

[00:10:29] This is another like movie that has that trouble.

[00:10:31] Pretty tough.

[00:10:32] Tough to follow the matrix.

[00:10:34] But that was like the first time where at the end of Back

[00:10:38] to the Future 2 there was it said to be continued.

[00:10:40] Right.

[00:10:41] And then there was a.

[00:10:42] The logo was ready.

[00:10:43] And then there was a trailer for Back to the Future 3.

[00:10:44] The trailer was in the end credits, which also happens here.

[00:10:46] Happens here.

[00:10:47] Yeah, at the end of the end credits.

[00:10:48] Yeah.

[00:10:49] Because even Harry Potter like, okay,

[00:10:50] I'm gonna make seven, but it wasn't like they did it one at a time.

[00:10:53] Yes, that's right.

[00:10:54] Yeah.

[00:10:55] Lord of the Rings.

[00:10:56] Beer Jackson thought no one was going to let him make three.

[00:10:58] So he condensed it to two.

[00:11:00] He went to studio, studio, studio and everyone said no, no, no.

[00:11:03] Too much.

[00:11:04] It was New Line who said like this needs to be three.

[00:11:06] They said, let me ask you, I have one problem.

[00:11:08] Why isn't it three films?

[00:11:09] And it became three and the game was changed.

[00:11:12] Now the game, it was changed now.

[00:11:14] The matrix had come out.

[00:11:15] This was probably happening around the same time.

[00:11:17] Because I think the fellowship,

[00:11:18] The Lord of the Rings, we've probably started filming around 99.

[00:11:21] Or at least pre-production and whatever.

[00:11:23] All that stuff was happening.

[00:11:24] Right.

[00:11:25] So at the time that it's clear that they're going to make a matrix sequel,

[00:11:27] they know that Lord of the Rings is doing this.

[00:11:29] Yes.

[00:11:30] And that is in fact, it's over at New Line, which is owned by Time Warner,

[00:11:34] which is in the same sort of universe as Warner Brothers.

[00:11:37] And obviously like if that had not worked,

[00:11:39] New Line would have gone under as it later did because they did that with the Golden

[00:11:43] Compass or whatever.

[00:11:44] Yeah.

[00:11:45] So, yeah, maybe that idea is floating around in the corporate culture.

[00:11:49] But obviously also the matrix, talk about a hit.

[00:11:53] Huge.

[00:11:54] And here's the thing.

[00:11:55] Talk about a blank check.

[00:11:56] The years between 1999, 2003, the matrix just grows and grows and grows.

[00:12:01] Like it was a huge hit when it came out,

[00:12:03] but it becomes one of the highest selling DVDs of all time.

[00:12:05] Yeah, that's the thing.

[00:12:06] The Colt around it deepens.

[00:12:07] A box office hit that then, right, everything else just,

[00:12:11] the soundtrack, everything.

[00:12:13] But it felt like, oh, this is as big as a movie can get.

[00:12:15] And then just got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.

[00:12:17] And it sounds like, you know, we weren't alive at this point.

[00:12:20] But when people describe what sort of happened between Star Wars

[00:12:23] and Empire Strikes Back, there were a bunch of re-releases.

[00:12:25] Sure.

[00:12:26] We're in place of people having DVDs and being able to rewatch it over

[00:12:29] and over again.

[00:12:30] And just became like so fervent where the time the second one

[00:12:33] opened, like our hopes and dreams rested on the shoulders of this

[00:12:37] movie.

[00:12:38] Yeah.

[00:12:39] No, I think with big franchises like this,

[00:12:41] there are two strategies you can employ, right,

[00:12:43] for how you do a sequel.

[00:12:44] Sure.

[00:12:45] One is you just do another story.

[00:12:46] Yeah, in the same world.

[00:12:47] And the second one is you make it a mythology.

[00:12:50] You know?

[00:12:51] Sure, you dig in.

[00:12:52] You go here's the next chapter.

[00:12:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:54] And you make it feel like whether it was always the

[00:12:56] attention or you're retroactively doing this, like...

[00:12:58] Right, well it's the classic argument that people like

[00:13:01] George Lucas make where they're like,

[00:13:02] well I always had six more movies.

[00:13:04] I always had a lot planned out.

[00:13:06] Right.

[00:13:07] And then, you know, which is always kind of hard to call them

[00:13:10] one, but often feels not true.

[00:13:12] You're like you see the sequel and you're like,

[00:13:14] I don't know if you really had this like really,

[00:13:16] really set in stone, man.

[00:13:18] But yeah, you look at the difference between the two

[00:13:20] George Lucas franchises, right?

[00:13:22] It's Indiana Jones and Star Wars.

[00:13:24] Do you go this is one saga or do you go here's just

[00:13:26] another Indiana Jones movie?

[00:13:28] Yeah, Indiana Jones movie sequels, they're almost

[00:13:30] like James Bondi where it's just like,

[00:13:32] yeah, like this time he'll do this.

[00:13:35] There will be a new lady, you know,

[00:13:37] and we'll just do another thing.

[00:13:39] Some movies actually like completely disregard any sense

[00:13:42] of continuity, you know.

[00:13:43] Yeah, they have internal continuity sometimes

[00:13:46] with the actors, like yeah, but that's it.

[00:13:48] And then usually when an actor is done,

[00:13:50] it's kind of a soft reboot.

[00:13:52] In the case with Daniel Craig, it was more of a hard reboot.

[00:13:55] But then you still have Judy Denstang on

[00:13:57] like as M through to Bond.

[00:13:59] Which was an interesting decision.

[00:14:01] It was a contractual decision.

[00:14:03] It worked.

[00:14:04] It worked, but that was totally that they had like

[00:14:05] made a eight picture deal with her.

[00:14:07] There's nothing like James Bond.

[00:14:09] Like James Bond is a franchise that's always

[00:14:11] played by its own rules and it's hard to copy.

[00:14:14] The Matrix doubles down in a way I think

[00:14:16] no franchise since Star Wars had

[00:14:18] about being like this is a saga.

[00:14:20] Yeah, I'm trying to think if there is

[00:14:22] another obvious example.

[00:14:23] I don't know that there is.

[00:14:25] The Plan of the Apes franchise is weird

[00:14:27] and that comes before Star Wars?

[00:14:28] Definitely.

[00:14:29] The Plan of the Apes franchise is its own

[00:14:31] special crazy thing, but that was definitely

[00:14:33] a thing where they kept making sequels

[00:14:35] but they did not have it all planned out.

[00:14:37] It was more just like, you know,

[00:14:39] earnest the earnest franchise.

[00:14:42] And Ben like literally we like

[00:14:44] paused looked over Ben was like I got to the

[00:14:46] listener at home Ben's performance on that

[00:14:48] was so good that was commanding the

[00:14:50] sincerity with which Ben hit his knee and was like

[00:14:53] Ben has an interesting example.

[00:14:55] I can't wait to hear his interesting example.

[00:14:58] I love the Plan of the Apes movies.

[00:14:59] I'd love to do a main series on them.

[00:15:01] They're fascinating.

[00:15:02] I mean I think it's like there's like

[00:15:03] Planet and then there's like a nice three

[00:15:05] film arc right and then there's like another

[00:15:07] one. Is that the... I can't remember.

[00:15:09] Yeah kind of it's weird. They're sort of

[00:15:11] cyclical because the like last one ends

[00:15:13] where the first one begins kind of.

[00:15:14] Well also doesn't the second one end with Earth

[00:15:16] blowing up and then they have to deal

[00:15:18] with that because they had to make a third one so like

[00:15:20] okay they go back in time.

[00:15:23] And also each one ostensibly has

[00:15:25] a different lead character.

[00:15:27] Which is a very unusual way to do a

[00:15:29] franchise like that because you have a new

[00:15:31] surrogate every time so like even if the

[00:15:33] world's established you have a new entry point

[00:15:35] to come in with.

[00:15:36] Which is something... there's...

[00:15:38] I like it a lot.

[00:15:39] No no there's something I'm more thinking like

[00:15:41] did The Matrix have done something like that?

[00:15:43] I was thinking that a lot while watching this movie

[00:15:45] because...

[00:15:46] I mean of course that's ludicrous because

[00:15:47] this movie's great but you know I think

[00:15:49] like if you made a Matrix 4 let's

[00:15:51] say. Sure.

[00:15:52] You know let's say Warner Brothers,

[00:15:53] Ghost of the Wachowskies and they're like

[00:15:54] guys we want it's time and we

[00:15:56] think we you know we really need a hit

[00:15:58] and it's like why don't you make a

[00:15:59] Matrix 4 then maybe they could be like

[00:16:01] okay well it's just gonna be about a new person.

[00:16:03] Jane Smith.

[00:16:04] Oh boy.

[00:16:05] Yeah no there is that

[00:16:07] thought. We're gonna tie in the after-earth franchise

[00:16:09] we're gonna get them together.

[00:16:10] No because when this movie starts

[00:16:12] you do have three characters who sort of

[00:16:14] just like got it together.

[00:16:16] Oh wait are you getting a Matrix Reloaded?

[00:16:18] Yeah.

[00:16:19] That's what I love about this movie.

[00:16:20] Okay so here's... Oh yes I love

[00:16:22] everything about this movie.

[00:16:23] David here's the challenge I want to throw to

[00:16:25] you and I don't say this in any sort of

[00:16:27] agonistic way. No no no well I bet you do.

[00:16:29] No I don't I genuinely don't.

[00:16:31] Whoa whoa whoa.

[00:16:32] I had not seen this movie since it came out right?

[00:16:35] 2003 I was amped for this movie.

[00:16:37] Yeah we should maybe talk about that for a second

[00:16:39] but if you want to throw your challenge out first

[00:16:41] let's build up let's build up to this and the challenge will come out of that.

[00:16:43] Yeah great.

[00:16:44] Yeah so we probably both saw this movie

[00:16:46] in theaters opening weekend.

[00:16:48] Yeah I saw it I believe opening night

[00:16:50] I saw it with my friend.

[00:16:52] You were probably for 14-ish?

[00:16:54] 2003?

[00:16:55] Yeah I would have been 14.

[00:16:56] Yeah I was like 17.

[00:16:58] And obviously I think we were both amped.

[00:17:01] The trailers were great.

[00:17:03] I mean I was going to say I even remember a year

[00:17:05] earlier going to see Attack the Clones.

[00:17:07] Sure.

[00:17:08] Attack the Clones!

[00:17:09] With my friend SkylerRaddick at the AMC 25

[00:17:12] and they played the first teaser for the Matrix Reloaded.

[00:17:14] Yeah that rings a bell yeah.

[00:17:15] And the teaser was so good everyone

[00:17:17] walked out of Attack the Clones being like

[00:17:19] and remember I liked Attack the Clones.

[00:17:21] It was you know it was like whoa Yoda we were all

[00:17:23] like we loved it at the time.

[00:17:25] But even walking out we were like that

[00:17:27] Matrix trailer was the real thing right?

[00:17:29] I remember and I should have rewatched the trailers

[00:17:31] before we recorded I forgot to do that but

[00:17:33] I just remember the trailers being like hot shit.

[00:17:35] They're really good.

[00:17:36] I think they still hold up as really incredible pieces

[00:17:39] of like a trailer editing.

[00:17:41] Yeah but I remember that was like

[00:17:43] everyone walked out there and was just like

[00:17:45] when Star Wars started we were bummed out

[00:17:47] we couldn't watch Matrix Reloaded immediately.

[00:17:49] Yeah you know and even like amongst my friends

[00:17:52] who I was a big movie nerd but other people weren't.

[00:17:54] Everyone was hyped.

[00:17:55] And they were like I heard they're doing two at the same time

[00:17:57] they're filming Australia.

[00:17:58] Everyone was in yeah.

[00:17:59] It's this big thing like everyone knew all the shit about

[00:18:01] what was going on.

[00:18:02] And there was all the stuff there was like the animatrix

[00:18:04] there was all the like general stuff floating around.

[00:18:07] Well this was like the first time that someone

[00:18:09] really tried to make like a big trans media property

[00:18:12] where the story was fragmented so you had.

[00:18:14] Again I'm trying to think if there are any other examples

[00:18:16] but for sure it was very concerted because

[00:18:18] partially I think just because the Wachowski was like

[00:18:20] we like comic books we like video games

[00:18:22] we like anime let's like do it all right.

[00:18:25] So they have like six anime shorts.

[00:18:28] I think nine.

[00:18:29] I think there are nine animatrix movies yeah.

[00:18:31] We will rewatch them for this.

[00:18:32] In various like forms like there's a CGI one

[00:18:35] there's like various forms of animation.

[00:18:37] Different directors and stuff.

[00:18:38] I think one or two of them were released theatrically

[00:18:40] I know one of them was released before Dreamcatcher.

[00:18:43] I think only final final fight of the Osiris

[00:18:45] and that was before Dreamcatcher.

[00:18:47] And that was the one where I mean to look at it now

[00:18:49] it looks like a PlayStation 3 clip

[00:18:51] but back then it was like

[00:18:52] Wow look at this.

[00:18:54] The video game is like a parallel story

[00:18:56] from a different perspective.

[00:18:58] I think we talked about that and Enter the Matrix

[00:19:00] it's basically just like filling in little chunks

[00:19:03] of Jada Pinkett Smith's characters story.

[00:19:06] The most fascinating character in the film.

[00:19:08] And I was just reading they shot an hour

[00:19:12] of 35 millimeter footage.

[00:19:14] It's on the Blu-ray I only noticed this when I was leaving

[00:19:16] but I am gonna watch that

[00:19:17] and we'll comment on it for future episodes.

[00:19:19] But there's an hour of straight Wachowski footage.

[00:19:21] I remember reading some interview with Jada Pinkett Smith

[00:19:23] at the time where she was like

[00:19:24] I literally would be they'd be setting up the shot

[00:19:27] and I'd be like is this for the video game?

[00:19:28] What's this for?

[00:19:29] And they just be like just don't worry about it.

[00:19:31] Like she did not know what was in the movie

[00:19:34] like of what she had made.

[00:19:35] But there's a lot of this where like

[00:19:36] Naomi's character doesn't really do anything

[00:19:38] in the movie of much consequence.

[00:19:40] She's there to tie to the video game.

[00:19:42] I guess so.

[00:19:43] Yes, I mean that's when she shows up

[00:19:46] near the end of the movie.

[00:19:47] I think they're thinking like

[00:19:48] and you'll play the video

[00:19:49] and you'll have known where she was up to

[00:19:50] and it's like we don't care what she was up to.

[00:19:53] She's a like what the 12th lead?

[00:19:55] Like come on.

[00:19:56] That was their big gambit at the time

[00:19:57] and then even like the kid who Neo saves

[00:19:59] is one of the animatric shorts.

[00:20:01] Yeah, he works better I think just because

[00:20:03] in the movie you're like look I get it

[00:20:05] it's just some fucking kid

[00:20:06] like you know that they rescued

[00:20:07] like we get what the job of Neo is.

[00:20:09] That people are looking up to Neo

[00:20:10] and they're indebted to him and all this

[00:20:12] but I remember seeing it with my friends

[00:20:13] and being like he's more of a problem

[00:20:14] in the third movie.

[00:20:15] Yeah, but I remember seeing this

[00:20:17] like everyone knew that it was this big

[00:20:19] transmedia thing and I remember seeing it

[00:20:21] with friends like once again

[00:20:23] weren't as movie literate as I was

[00:20:25] and we like the kid would show up

[00:20:27] and be like oh I think he's a fucking cartoon.

[00:20:29] Like anytime something was sort of thrown out

[00:20:31] we'd be like is that from the comics?

[00:20:32] Like you were watching it knowing

[00:20:34] you needed these appendixes

[00:20:35] which was very different.

[00:20:36] So A, like planning the franchise

[00:20:38] out in advance that sort of way.

[00:20:40] A big and you know maybe largely

[00:20:42] a misfire but a big epic undertaking.

[00:20:44] And the transmedia thing which people felt

[00:20:46] at the time was sort of a misfire

[00:20:47] like the video game was not well received, you know?

[00:20:49] It's a bad game.

[00:20:50] Right and people felt like all these other narrative

[00:20:52] threads were a hindrance to the movie

[00:20:54] because it made it confusing

[00:20:55] but now you look at how well

[00:20:57] Star Wars is integrating all this stuff.

[00:20:59] Yeah right it was an early attempt

[00:21:00] at something that is now

[00:21:02] much more commonplace.

[00:21:03] Which is a thing you know I mean

[00:21:05] that was a big thing with

[00:21:06] with Georgie Porgy with like I mean his

[00:21:08] you know...

[00:21:09] I wonder what he thinks of the Matrix movies.

[00:21:10] I'd be fascinated to hear.

[00:21:12] But you know like we talked about

[00:21:14] with the off reference

[00:21:16] JD Amato who was our guest on

[00:21:18] the digital filmmaking episode

[00:21:19] for Attack the Clones.

[00:21:21] About how it's like this doesn't work

[00:21:22] but he needed to fall on his sword

[00:21:24] to allow other people to run with this.

[00:21:26] You know which is a thing I think

[00:21:28] Peter Jackson did with the high frame rate stuff

[00:21:30] where it's like those movies look horrific?

[00:21:32] Horrific?

[00:21:33] The Hobbit Prequels, the Hobbit trilogy?

[00:21:35] I only saw one of them

[00:21:37] in the high frame rate

[00:21:38] and it was like literally by mistake.

[00:21:39] I think it's because I went to a press screening

[00:21:41] and like that's what it was in

[00:21:42] and like I just don't know

[00:21:43] what anyone was thinking with that.

[00:21:45] Like I don't know how it was going on.

[00:21:46] It was disastrous but also I mean...

[00:21:48] Jackson's been pretty upfront on the Hobbit

[00:21:50] about like I was making the plane in the air.

[00:21:52] Yeah I had no idea what was going on.

[00:21:53] I don't know.

[00:21:54] And he fell on the sword for everyone else

[00:21:55] like he died for our sins

[00:21:56] but now the new Ang Lee movie

[00:21:57] is supposed to look amazing

[00:21:59] and fucking Cameron's doing all the

[00:22:01] Avatar movies in like fucking

[00:22:03] 4DX 5 billion frames per second.

[00:22:05] I get your point is like you know

[00:22:07] you gotta walk before you can run or whatever

[00:22:10] and it's like you know they tried to run

[00:22:12] and it didn't totally work but

[00:22:14] at least it laid the groundwork.

[00:22:16] The Wachowskis are big thinkers

[00:22:18] in every sense you know.

[00:22:19] I mean they're big thinkers

[00:22:20] and they're deep thinkers

[00:22:21] and this is a movie with a lot of ideas

[00:22:23] and they're not just the ideas

[00:22:24] within the body of the film

[00:22:25] but the ideas in the making of the film.

[00:22:27] Sure but there are a lot of ideas

[00:22:28] in the body of the film

[00:22:29] perhaps too many.

[00:22:30] Okay so I will admit.

[00:22:32] I see this opening weekend

[00:22:33] Yeah me too.

[00:22:34] And I walk out

[00:22:35] and my reaction is

[00:22:38] well I think I don't get it yet

[00:22:39] because I haven't seen the third one.

[00:22:41] Yeah my reaction was angry

[00:22:43] and like really

[00:22:45] I was like that was bad

[00:22:46] I didn't like it.

[00:22:47] I was definite about that

[00:22:49] but I did have that like

[00:22:51] inkling where it's like well

[00:22:53] you know it's part of two

[00:22:54] and like maybe the second one

[00:22:56] will sort of bring it all into

[00:22:57] because the film has one of the

[00:22:58] worst endings

[00:23:00] Oh it's horrific.

[00:23:01] A film like this could have.

[00:23:02] Absolutely horrific.

[00:23:03] You know and obviously like

[00:23:04] a lot of these films have this

[00:23:05] the clones kind of has this probably

[00:23:06] you know a lot of the middle movies

[00:23:08] where it's like okay

[00:23:09] or you know there's more common

[00:23:10] Yeah but even on that

[00:23:12] like the ending is downright confusing

[00:23:14] if you've just seen the movie

[00:23:16] where you're like who's that again?

[00:23:18] Like you don't know.

[00:23:19] Well that whole thing.

[00:23:20] Yeah but back to future two

[00:23:21] you have to say back to future two

[00:23:22] does nail that one thing.

[00:23:24] Yeah yeah yeah.

[00:23:25] The ending of Back to Future Two

[00:23:26] is like.

[00:23:27] It's decent.

[00:23:28] Yeah um yeah

[00:23:29] but I was disappointed

[00:23:31] I didn't hate it

[00:23:32] I think I tried to convince myself

[00:23:34] I liked it more than it did

[00:23:36] because A I was like

[00:23:37] well I'm stupid I'm 14

[00:23:38] this movie is throwing a lot of ideas out

[00:23:40] I think I don't get it.

[00:23:41] Yeah.

[00:23:42] So I was like A I might need to see

[00:23:43] a couple more times and read some books

[00:23:44] to understand what the fuck they're talking about

[00:23:46] and B it might be that when I see three

[00:23:49] and I see the big thing they're going for

[00:23:51] it makes sense

[00:23:52] and the analogy I threw it to my friend

[00:23:53] at the time I remember was like

[00:23:55] I feel like this movie threw a bunch

[00:23:56] of balls up in the air

[00:23:57] and the question right now is

[00:23:58] can I catch them?

[00:23:59] The third one catch them.

[00:24:00] Uh I was

[00:24:01] I think our age difference

[00:24:03] which we talked about in the last episode.

[00:24:04] 1417

[00:24:05] Yeah yeah yeah

[00:24:06] you know when I saw The Matrix in 13

[00:24:07] I was so impressionable

[00:24:08] and so excited

[00:24:09] and it was perfect for me at the time

[00:24:11] and when I saw Reloaded at 17

[00:24:13] I was like getting a little cynical

[00:24:15] and like kind of contrarian

[00:24:16] and so I was the perfect age to

[00:24:18] hate that movie

[00:24:19] to just be like fuck them

[00:24:20] like they blew it

[00:24:21] Yeah

[00:24:22] I love The Matrix and this sucked

[00:24:24] And I mean this is like a big memory

[00:24:26] for me and they've since blown their

[00:24:28] sort of like reputation in this way

[00:24:30] the Angelica Theater in New York

[00:24:32] which was famous for being sort of like

[00:24:34] the big first art house cinema

[00:24:36] the sort of vanguard of like

[00:24:38] the New York Art House Multiplex

[00:24:39] Art House Multiplexes right?

[00:24:40] Yeah, seven screens or whatever

[00:24:41] Yeah and it's one of the worst theaters

[00:24:43] I've ever attended

[00:24:44] Absolutely one of the worst theaters

[00:24:45] I've ever been to in the entire world

[00:24:46] If the pavilion didn't exist

[00:24:47] it would be grand champion

[00:24:48] of worst theater in New York City

[00:24:49] But their programming

[00:24:50] and their location was really important

[00:24:52] Of course

[00:24:53] So it still gets grandfathered in

[00:24:54] but it's objectively an awful place

[00:24:55] to see them

[00:24:56] Well it's a train

[00:24:57] It's a train

[00:24:58] You can hear the train

[00:24:59] You can hear the F train running underneath

[00:25:00] Every movie theater is like basically

[00:25:02] it's very narrow corridor

[00:25:03] and it's like if you're not sitting

[00:25:04] in the right seat

[00:25:05] and you're behind like the wrong person

[00:25:07] goodbye enjoyable experience

[00:25:09] like no no chance

[00:25:11] The seats are really stiff and uncomfortable

[00:25:12] There's one, yeah, they're terrible seats

[00:25:13] There's one theater where they

[00:25:15] routinely forget to close the doors

[00:25:17] before the movie starts

[00:25:18] and you have to get up

[00:25:19] and close the damn doors yourself

[00:25:20] Yeah it's all

[00:25:21] That little one nicks the escalator

[00:25:22] All the screens are in a basement

[00:25:23] and the basement is directly above the train

[00:25:25] Anyway

[00:25:26] And the floor is made of tissue paper

[00:25:27] What's the point about the Angelica Theater?

[00:25:28] Also three times at the Angelica

[00:25:29] I have seen them play the wrong movie

[00:25:32] Fair, fair

[00:25:33] Totally fair

[00:25:34] And one time it was the fountain

[00:25:35] that they played the right movie

[00:25:37] and then twice over the course

[00:25:38] of one film's running time

[00:25:40] the projector burns through the film

[00:25:42] Hey man that's just

[00:25:44] Darren Ronofsky's hot filmmaking

[00:25:46] just you know

[00:25:47] I mean yeah

[00:25:48] He's coming in hot

[00:25:49] Okay what's your point about the Angelica?

[00:25:50] You didn't see this at the Angelica

[00:25:51] The Angelica fucking played the Matrix

[00:25:53] for a little bit

[00:25:54] You're saying it was like

[00:25:55] it was such a hot movie

[00:25:56] like on every sphere

[00:25:58] and every quadrant that even the Indie picture house

[00:26:00] was like

[00:26:01] we're gonna have the Matrix reloaded

[00:26:02] They've since lost their integrity

[00:26:03] and the entire reason the Angelica

[00:26:04] existed in the first place

[00:26:05] was like

[00:26:06] we're gonna play the movies that other theaters

[00:26:07] won't play the best films right?

[00:26:09] I mean that was the ideal

[00:26:10] Now it's like there's these Indie laws

[00:26:13] or whatever

[00:26:14] and the Angelica gets half the Indie movies

[00:26:15] and the landmark gets the other half

[00:26:16] and you're like please god can it get

[00:26:18] Yeah and then there's IFC

[00:26:19] in the film forum

[00:26:20] which kind of get the leftovers

[00:26:22] But the Angelica at the time was the one

[00:26:23] and so it's like

[00:26:24] they're not gonna play blockbuster

[00:26:25] because it's already playing

[00:26:26] in a bunch of screens

[00:26:27] and they were just like

[00:26:28] give me that money

[00:26:29] Well it was also like we respect this movie

[00:26:31] Fair enough

[00:26:32] Like they also recently fucking did a run of entourage

[00:26:33] so they've now like lost

[00:26:34] whatever they had going for them

[00:26:36] They did the entourage for a month

[00:26:37] and I tweeted at them so angrily

[00:26:38] because they fucking like

[00:26:39] kick slow west off their screens

[00:26:41] after five days to play entourage for a month

[00:26:43] but the Matrix reloaded

[00:26:45] It was like a big cultural thing

[00:26:47] where it was like even the art house theaters are like

[00:26:49] let's do this

[00:26:50] So what's your point?

[00:26:51] So here's the challenge I throw to you

[00:26:52] Sure

[00:26:53] I had not seen it since then

[00:26:54] I saw it maybe two or three times

[00:26:55] in theater when it came out

[00:26:56] because I wanted to convince myself to like

[00:26:58] I only saw it the one time

[00:26:59] Right?

[00:27:00] I was like fuck I gotta like this

[00:27:01] and I still thought I kinda liked it

[00:27:02] I disliked revolution so much

[00:27:04] I wrote both of them off

[00:27:05] I haven't seen either since they came out

[00:27:07] We've been friends for a while now

[00:27:09] And I've talked about revolutions

[00:27:10] but go ahead

[00:27:11] You told me

[00:27:12] When I saw revolutions in theaters

[00:27:14] I was furious

[00:27:15] As was I

[00:27:16] Yeah

[00:27:17] I was less furious on this one

[00:27:18] but we were both furious at revolutions

[00:27:20] By the end of revolutions

[00:27:21] it was like well alright then

[00:27:22] You know like I

[00:27:23] No hope now

[00:27:25] They blew it

[00:27:26] official

[00:27:27] You know the most

[00:27:29] representational thing I can say

[00:27:31] is that I had a shelf of matrix reloaded toys

[00:27:33] even though I was like mixed on the movie

[00:27:35] What's your challenge?

[00:27:36] I get it

[00:27:37] And then after I saw revolutions

[00:27:38] I sold them

[00:27:39] I was like I don't want these anymore

[00:27:40] Okay so what's your challenge?

[00:27:41] I need you to explain to me

[00:27:43] why this movie is good

[00:27:44] Okay well that's the challenge

[00:27:45] Because you've been saying this forever

[00:27:47] and I've been so excited to rewatch it

[00:27:49] and come around to your point of view

[00:27:51] Yeah right

[00:27:52] And you know I'm older

[00:27:54] I'm an old man now

[00:27:55] I don't know if I'm wiser

[00:27:56] but I'm less stupid than I used to be

[00:27:58] Right?

[00:27:59] Yeah

[00:28:00] And I you know tried to view the prism

[00:28:01] of everything you said to me

[00:28:02] and I really

[00:28:03] I would have loved nothing more

[00:28:04] than to walk out of this viewing

[00:28:06] in my fucking apartment

[00:28:07] and go David's right

[00:28:08] it's a masterpiece

[00:28:09] But instead

[00:28:10] I don't know

[00:28:11] I don't even fucking know what to make of this movie

[00:28:13] Did you dislike it would you say as much

[00:28:14] as when you were a teenager

[00:28:16] or like what was your thinking?

[00:28:17] Well I think at that

[00:28:18] You got me

[00:28:19] Yeah I think at that time

[00:28:20] I was trying to convince myself

[00:28:21] that I liked it

[00:28:22] No but now

[00:28:23] I was like I respect it

[00:28:25] I don't think it's very good

[00:28:26] That's pretty

[00:28:27] That's a fair call

[00:28:28] But I kind of appreciate it

[00:28:29] without enjoying it at all

[00:28:31] My opinion on this movie is very much like

[00:28:33] as a commercial piece of art

[00:28:34] it is

[00:28:35] like largely a failure

[00:28:37] Oh it's a failure

[00:28:38] It has some decent action

[00:28:39] especially at the end there

[00:28:41] Yeah

[00:28:42] The freeway chase

[00:28:43] I think that chase is great

[00:28:44] and I think the one in the French mansion

[00:28:45] is pretty solid

[00:28:46] It is pretty solid too

[00:28:47] I think the agent Smith fight is horrific

[00:28:48] Yeah

[00:28:49] Well it's you know

[00:28:50] it's kind of the same as

[00:28:51] the attack of the clone

[00:28:52] It's the Yoda fight

[00:28:53] which at the time everyone thought was great

[00:28:54] I mean I can tell you a little bit about

[00:28:56] that was where they were like

[00:28:57] we're gonna do a bullet time thing

[00:28:59] but with 100 people

[00:29:00] and like midway through filming

[00:29:02] basically Don Gada who's the visual effects guy

[00:29:04] is like that's literally

[00:29:05] we've decided that's actually impossible to do

[00:29:07] if we can't do it

[00:29:08] So they started doing

[00:29:10] they just CGI

[00:29:11] Yeah and it looks like garbage

[00:29:12] Yeah and like

[00:29:13] they invented the virtual

[00:29:14] signature photography techniques

[00:29:15] that now are like

[00:29:16] fucking

[00:29:17] you make a whole movie using those

[00:29:18] like the jungle book is

[00:29:19] 100% that technology

[00:29:21] like literally

[00:29:22] there's no cameras in that movie basically

[00:29:23] Once again they died for a sense

[00:29:24] but like

[00:29:25] Totally

[00:29:26] but I mean like

[00:29:27] that fight is

[00:29:28] a disaster to look at

[00:29:29] but also kind of a plot to say

[00:29:31] like none of it

[00:29:32] like you're watching it

[00:29:33] and you're just like

[00:29:34] why is this happening?

[00:29:36] Like what story purposes

[00:29:38] does this serve?

[00:29:39] What is this?

[00:29:40] What is this?

[00:29:41] Yeah

[00:29:42] I guess it just serves the purpose

[00:29:43] that like now you know

[00:29:44] agent Smith can make lots of himself

[00:29:45] Yeah

[00:29:46] I guess

[00:29:47] So you know

[00:29:48] as a 14 year old

[00:29:49] I was looking for

[00:29:50] a sequel to the Matrix

[00:29:51] that made me feel the way

[00:29:52] the Matrix did right?

[00:29:53] Yeah and it's a good question

[00:29:54] what did we want this movie to be?

[00:29:56] I think that's a fair question right?

[00:29:57] I was trying to watch this

[00:29:58] and figure that out

[00:29:59] I was trying to think

[00:30:00] what was I expecting

[00:30:01] out of this film

[00:30:02] because I look at the trailers

[00:30:03] and they get me excited

[00:30:04] and I still don't know

[00:30:05] what I think it's promising

[00:30:06] and I realize

[00:30:07] it's really hard to imagine

[00:30:08] what it could have been

[00:30:09] like in a more

[00:30:10] sort of

[00:30:11] nominally like

[00:30:12] commercial sequel

[00:30:13] I think I sat down

[00:30:14] at theater and had no idea

[00:30:15] what I actually wanted

[00:30:16] I wanted to be as surprised

[00:30:17] as I was watching the Matrix

[00:30:18] the first time

[00:30:19] Hard to do

[00:30:20] That's the thing

[00:30:21] You know

[00:30:22] I mean that's what's tough

[00:30:23] is it's not just like

[00:30:24] oh the Matrix is really good

[00:30:25] Like you see someone

[00:30:26] like Guardians of the Galaxy

[00:30:27] and you're like

[00:30:28] good make a sequel

[00:30:29] Yeah just like

[00:30:30] can I have more of these guys

[00:30:31] pounding around

[00:30:32] On characters they joke

[00:30:33] they fight aliens

[00:30:34] Good easy to make a sequel

[00:30:35] I don't need the sequel

[00:30:36] to be to explain

[00:30:37] like the world

[00:30:38] of Guardians of the Galaxy

[00:30:39] in like extreme death

[00:30:40] I don't need bigger picture mythology

[00:30:42] I need like

[00:30:43] there's a couple of villains

[00:30:44] there's a McGuffin

[00:30:45] Right

[00:30:46] and then at the end

[00:30:47] it's not gonna be fucking

[00:30:48] you know Shakespeare over here

[00:30:49] Joking some pop songs

[00:30:50] and it's like

[00:30:51] I don't know if the movie's gonna work

[00:30:53] you know but I know

[00:30:54] there's a clear roadmap

[00:30:55] that a six year old could tell you

[00:30:56] is what Guardians of the Galaxy 2 should be

[00:30:58] In basketball

[00:31:00] you know is when you're drafting players

[00:31:02] No it's okay

[00:31:03] it's very brief

[00:31:04] Like in draft day

[00:31:05] Yes but basketball

[00:31:06] Can you put it in that

[00:31:07] in those tournaments

[00:31:08] Well sure in football

[00:31:09] it's probably similar in football

[00:31:10] You know

[00:31:11] you talk about a player's ceiling

[00:31:12] when you're drafting them

[00:31:13] right so it's like

[00:31:14] you see a player in college

[00:31:15] and you might say

[00:31:16] he's good right now

[00:31:17] he's probably gonna just be this

[00:31:19] you know

[00:31:20] Yeah

[00:31:21] He'll be good

[00:31:22] and then you see another player

[00:31:23] and you're like

[00:31:24] look I get that he's rough around the edges

[00:31:25] but we know from

[00:31:26] like doing this for years

[00:31:27] that he's got the kind of skills

[00:31:28] that if you develop them right

[00:31:29] he could be a mega star

[00:31:30] Sure

[00:31:31] So like the ceiling is very high

[00:31:32] but it's a more high risk thing

[00:31:34] So that's kinda what the matrix is

[00:31:36] Like a sequel to the matrix

[00:31:37] is a high ceiling

[00:31:38] You could make something incredible

[00:31:39] Yeah

[00:31:40] Like talk about a world

[00:31:41] where you can do anything

[00:31:42] Yeah

[00:31:43] Guardians of the Galaxy

[00:31:44] you know

[00:31:45] like

[00:31:47] that sums it up right

[00:31:49] the little noises I just made

[00:31:50] Yes, 100%

[00:31:51] Yeah

[00:31:53] But something, yeah

[00:31:54] I don't know with this

[00:31:55] you just go like

[00:31:56] I don't even know what

[00:31:57] the paradigm shifted so much

[00:31:58] in the wake of this movie

[00:32:00] that I don't know what I want out of it

[00:32:01] and it's also this weird

[00:32:02] like you can't go home again thing

[00:32:04] where the matrix is

[00:32:05] a hero's journey

[00:32:06] It's someone coming to their position

[00:32:08] It's a new character

[00:32:09] entering into the world

[00:32:10] Yeah

[00:32:11] Right?

[00:32:12] You know what this movie is

[00:32:13] it's like a total subversion

[00:32:14] of the hero's journey

[00:32:15] Man, that's why it's so good

[00:32:17] Okay, so I would have

[00:32:18] Alright, I think I know

[00:32:19] what I wanted

[00:32:20] No, no, so Ben

[00:32:21] What your experience

[00:32:22] I believe was also seeing this

[00:32:23] at the time

[00:32:24] but you did not rewatch it

[00:32:25] You told me

[00:32:26] I did not

[00:32:27] Yeah, no

[00:32:28] I didn't have time

[00:32:29] You didn't watch it

[00:32:30] Okay, okay

[00:32:31] We're doing these episodes

[00:32:32] very close together

[00:32:33] and I don't think

[00:32:34] we can really reasonably

[00:32:35] expect Ben to have to

[00:32:36] watch everything

[00:32:37] We're doing three in a row

[00:32:38] Yeah

[00:32:39] Oh, so anyway

[00:32:40] So, yeah

[00:32:41] I mean I

[00:32:42] you know

[00:32:43] that was my take on it

[00:32:45] Now Ben

[00:32:46] you like size

[00:32:47] You like size

[00:32:48] I do

[00:32:49] Do you like quantity

[00:32:50] or is that less important to you

[00:32:51] Because it's a lot of keys

[00:32:52] When it's an impressive amount

[00:32:53] of keys

[00:32:54] I'm on board

[00:32:55] So did you find the keymaker

[00:32:56] abundance

[00:32:57] a bunch of keys

[00:32:58] to be an impressive amount of keys

[00:32:59] Yeah, yeah

[00:33:00] Oh, yeah

[00:33:01] I was like

[00:33:02] That was a bunch of keys

[00:33:03] I think he has two layers

[00:33:04] of clothes that are covered in keys

[00:33:05] He's got like

[00:33:06] an outer and inner vest

[00:33:07] Can I ask a very

[00:33:08] a very serious question

[00:33:10] Like a

[00:33:12] very serious question

[00:33:13] Yes, you can

[00:33:14] Yes, you can

[00:33:15] Has Ben become our finest

[00:33:16] living film critic

[00:33:17] Look, what if it was like

[00:33:19] USA Today

[00:33:20] and there's like a picture of Ben

[00:33:21] A picture of Ben

[00:33:22] like leaning with it

[00:33:23] against his fist

[00:33:24] And then

[00:33:25] and it's just like

[00:33:26] the matrix he loaded in there

[00:33:27] just like

[00:33:28] those were a lot of keys

[00:33:29] and it's on like

[00:33:30] the front page of USA

[00:33:31] If Variety just lost

[00:33:32] like three critics

[00:33:33] Justin Cheng

[00:33:34] just left Variety

[00:33:35] You should put it in here

[00:33:36] I went to the Illinois Times

[00:33:37] Congratulations, Justin Cheng

[00:33:38] Yeah, you know

[00:33:39] that was

[00:33:40] Thank you, Ben

[00:33:41] Welcome, guys

[00:33:42] So this movie is now 13 years old

[00:33:44] but that's what's lodged

[00:33:46] lodged in the memory palace

[00:33:48] Ben has the best brain

[00:33:50] in the universe

[00:33:53] We've been at a

[00:33:54] 20 minute discussion

[00:33:55] about smoking weed

[00:33:56] just before we started recording

[00:33:58] Well, cause let's

[00:33:59] call it out right now

[00:34:01] You know what day it is, Jens

[00:34:02] When we're recording this

[00:34:03] you're hearing this later

[00:34:04] 421, baby

[00:34:05] You know what that means

[00:34:06] you smoke a doobie plus one

[00:34:08] One more talk

[00:34:10] One more talk, bro

[00:34:11] Alright

[00:34:12] I haven't smoked weed in nine years

[00:34:13] cause it gives me panic

[00:34:14] Yeah, it's terrible

[00:34:15] But to go back

[00:34:18] that was my take away

[00:34:19] That's what I've retained

[00:34:20] is the key statement

[00:34:21] but thinking about it now

[00:34:24] I would have maybe liked to have seen

[00:34:26] To add to that

[00:34:27] I think I would have maybe gone

[00:34:29] in the direction of a time travel

[00:34:31] like add that to the story

[00:34:33] Definitely what this story

[00:34:35] is another complicated interface

[00:34:37] You know what I mean

[00:34:38] Make it like

[00:34:39] have now time travel built into it too

[00:34:41] Boy

[00:34:42] That would have been great

[00:34:44] You know that's never

[00:34:45] you know that's an interesting point

[00:34:46] cause like the matrix is a computer program

[00:34:47] right

[00:34:48] What if you could go into

[00:34:49] the Wayback machine basically

[00:34:50] It's basically just the internet

[00:34:52] Yeah, I like that

[00:34:53] What if they made like a crappy

[00:34:54] Men in Black 3 style

[00:34:55] just like 60s

[00:34:57] where everyone's a hippie

[00:35:00] That would be the worst movie ever made

[00:35:02] And it's like

[00:35:03] the program is like

[00:35:04] you know like 6

[00:35:05] 16 bit

[00:35:06] you know

[00:35:07] like it's like

[00:35:08] Oh that would be great if they all looked like Mario

[00:35:09] Oh my God

[00:35:11] We just fixed the matrix

[00:35:13] sequel

[00:35:14] Wow, fixed the glitch in the matrix

[00:35:15] Aidan Smith is shooting

[00:35:18] He's a non-protestor

[00:35:21] Okay

[00:35:22] So Griff

[00:35:23] Do you have something you want to say

[00:35:24] or should we get into the plot of this movie

[00:35:26] Yeah I want to

[00:35:27] Yeah I want to get into this

[00:35:28] So this is

[00:35:29] This is what I'm trying to set up

[00:35:30] for you to sell one

[00:35:31] You want me to try and sell you on

[00:35:32] that this is a good movie

[00:35:33] I struggled this entire time

[00:35:34] to watch it and try to find

[00:35:36] a viewing of it where I could

[00:35:38] love what it's doing

[00:35:39] And I've dropped all expectations

[00:35:41] of it functioning as like

[00:35:43] the matrix sequel that a 14 year old boy would want

[00:35:45] Yeah

[00:35:46] Which is like

[00:35:47] Or functioning as like an even vaguely

[00:35:49] traditional piece of Hollywood storytelling

[00:35:51] Right, now you know I love

[00:35:53] what I perceive to be like

[00:35:54] transgressive acts within the studio system

[00:35:56] Absolutely right

[00:35:57] When I see these films

[00:35:58] Which to me this is a classic example

[00:35:59] Right, so that's why I was so primed

[00:36:01] with you throwing that interpretation out to me

[00:36:03] to see what you saw

[00:36:04] And I just

[00:36:05] You've never explained to me exactly

[00:36:07] in great detail what is you seeing in the film

[00:36:09] I'll try, I'll try

[00:36:10] Because I was always like

[00:36:11] I want to wait and see if I see it

[00:36:12] But like

[00:36:13] You know we talk a lot about Iron Man 3

[00:36:14] which is a movie that a lot of people hate

[00:36:16] and you and I both see

[00:36:17] is fucking a masterpiece

[00:36:18] Yeah it's a movie

[00:36:19] It's the best Christmas movie

[00:36:20] It's about you know

[00:36:21] like personal redemption

[00:36:23] and like you know

[00:36:24] the sort of rock bottom moment

[00:36:26] where you realize what's important in your life

[00:36:28] It's like id fighting ego

[00:36:29] and it's iconography

[00:36:30] that the idea becoming bigger than the man

[00:36:32] and all the stuff

[00:36:33] I think it's brilliant

[00:36:34] And it's also like an 80s caper comedy

[00:36:36] which is like exactly what it needed to be

[00:36:38] Everything about it is great

[00:36:39] And I get why people who hate it

[00:36:40] hate it even though those people are stupid

[00:36:41] because it's like

[00:36:42] I literally don't get why people hate that movie

[00:36:46] It's genuinely confusing

[00:36:47] It genuinely confuses me

[00:36:48] It's like slapping the hand of people

[00:36:50] saying like you think you want this

[00:36:51] you don't want this

[00:36:52] this is what we're doing instead

[00:36:53] You know it is like a transgressive act

[00:36:54] within the Marvel Cinematic Universe

[00:36:56] This I just

[00:36:57] I can't figure it out other than

[00:36:59] like oh there are a lot of cool ideas

[00:37:01] in this movie

[00:37:02] and this movie just feels like

[00:37:03] throwing three ideas out at us per minute

[00:37:05] Sure

[00:37:06] Okay

[00:37:07] Whether it's a philosophical concept

[00:37:08] whether it's a visual idea

[00:37:10] whether it's a deepening of the world

[00:37:12] a new character

[00:37:13] you know

[00:37:14] It's just like elements, elements, elements, elements

[00:37:16] And it feels to me like

[00:37:19] I watched this movie

[00:37:20] and my big complaint is

[00:37:22] Yeah

[00:37:23] I wish they hadn't gone

[00:37:24] let's make two and three

[00:37:25] and let's make it a self-enclosed trilogy

[00:37:27] and this is a clear story we're telling

[00:37:29] I wish they had gone

[00:37:30] okay we have ideas for 20 more

[00:37:32] Matrix movies

[00:37:33] let's just keep making them

[00:37:34] Yeah

[00:37:35] No that's not what they thought

[00:37:36] and I think they were right

[00:37:37] in doing what they did

[00:37:38] Okay

[00:37:39] So please explain this to me

[00:37:40] I think much like the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels

[00:37:42] Which I don't like

[00:37:43] I don't like as much as this

[00:37:44] but I also think

[00:37:45] I like how World's End is the only one I like

[00:37:46] at World's End

[00:37:47] It's much better than the second one for sure

[00:37:48] I'm much better than the first one I think

[00:37:49] I don't like the first one

[00:37:50] Oh I think the first one's fun

[00:37:51] I mean fun

[00:37:52] But anyway

[00:37:53] Like much like those movies

[00:37:54] which were also made together

[00:37:55] Yes

[00:37:56] Released close together

[00:37:57] Right, followed this model

[00:37:58] The writers I think sat down

[00:37:59] and they had a really big philosophical

[00:38:01] like a lot of concepts

[00:38:03] that they mapped out

[00:38:04] and then they forgot to like

[00:38:06] make it make any sense

[00:38:07] Like you know like if that makes sense

[00:38:09] Like it's something you have to like

[00:38:11] almost like primary

[00:38:12] you have to like sit down

[00:38:13] and like map it all out

[00:38:14] and be like

[00:38:15] Oh I now see what's going on

[00:38:17] but just watching the movie once

[00:38:19] is not enough

[00:38:20] This is a movie that feels like

[00:38:21] you need a map to watch it

[00:38:22] It absolutely

[00:38:23] And that's why I think people are too harsh

[00:38:25] on movies like The Force Awakens

[00:38:26] or something which are like

[00:38:27] or the Marvel movies

[00:38:28] which are like really successful pieces of commercial

[00:38:31] commercial propulsive storytelling

[00:38:33] about really like big complicated worlds

[00:38:35] It's like

[00:38:36] they're like

[00:38:37] Ah it felt pandering and easy

[00:38:38] and it's like dude

[00:38:39] dude

[00:38:40] if they made the other movie

[00:38:41] you'd probably hate it too

[00:38:42] because it would be really hard to understand

[00:38:44] Yeah

[00:38:45] Well and I you know

[00:38:46] Dude

[00:38:47] I thought about Force Awakens

[00:38:48] in relation to this movie a couple times right

[00:38:50] Uh yeah, sure

[00:38:52] And there's the thing where like

[00:38:53] you know I mean

[00:38:54] everyone has their fucking complaints

[00:38:55] about Force Awakens

[00:38:56] and everyone the boosters

[00:38:57] and some people think it's perfect

[00:38:58] and the people think it's terrible

[00:38:59] and the people in the middle

[00:39:00] are the ones who are the quietest right

[00:39:01] Yeah

[00:39:02] The silent majority

[00:39:03] Right, whatever you want to say

[00:39:05] like you know pros or cons

[00:39:06] it's fucking you know

[00:39:07] Throwing the max land is Mary Sue argument

[00:39:09] into the garbage where it belongs

[00:39:10] It is like you look at that movie

[00:39:12] and like

[00:39:14] Ray wants to find her parents

[00:39:16] Sure it's very simple

[00:39:17] very very simple thing

[00:39:18] to everyone who can grasp onto

[00:39:19] Finn wants to become a hero

[00:39:21] and wants everyone to think

[00:39:22] that he's a hero

[00:39:23] And the entire film you know

[00:39:24] those are the purpose

[00:39:25] Those are the guiding principle

[00:39:26] of those two characters

[00:39:27] Ray wants to figure out

[00:39:28] find where she belongs

[00:39:29] and Finn wants to earn his place

[00:39:31] So let's move over to the Matrix Reloaded

[00:39:33] I don't know what any of these characters want to do

[00:39:35] Okay, so that's fair

[00:39:37] Okay, so here are

[00:39:38] And I don't demand that a movie function

[00:39:40] in that way for me

[00:39:41] So I would say

[00:39:42] one thing to say about these

[00:39:44] two movies

[00:39:45] Yeah

[00:39:46] is that I think that their biggest failure

[00:39:48] is to the character of Trinity

[00:39:50] who's very sidelined to me

[00:39:52] Yeah, they blow it with her

[00:39:54] And I think one of the reasons they blow with her

[00:39:56] is because they got a lot of shit to do

[00:39:57] and they literally

[00:39:58] I mean, because Morpheus also gets totally sidelined

[00:40:00] if you may not remember

[00:40:01] but in the Matrix Revolution

[00:40:03] Susan Tyerark is sitting in a chair

[00:40:05] Yeah, I do remember

[00:40:06] just looking bummed out

[00:40:07] because at the end of Reloaded

[00:40:09] it's all over for him

[00:40:10] Yeah

[00:40:11] I remember that because

[00:40:12] the only action figure I bought from Revolution was

[00:40:14] Is he sitting in a chair?

[00:40:15] Yeah, it was literally just

[00:40:16] It was a purple shirt

[00:40:17] Yeah, you just couldn't pose it

[00:40:18] it was just like him in a chair

[00:40:19] Just defeated

[00:40:20] I just would pretend

[00:40:21] it was from the first movie

[00:40:22] because it looked like him with the pills

[00:40:24] Yes, yes

[00:40:26] But even like, you know, you look at...

[00:40:27] I was about to say like

[00:40:28] well so the main character's

[00:40:30] arcs of Neo, you know, Morpheus and Trinity

[00:40:32] and I was like, Trinity really doesn't have one

[00:40:34] Yeah

[00:40:35] You know, she's the most underserved here

[00:40:37] Whereas in the first film

[00:40:38] I think all three of them have strong arcs

[00:40:40] Absolutely

[00:40:41] And I think that...

[00:40:42] Trinity is still maybe the weakest

[00:40:43] in terms of like

[00:40:44] She's very beholden to a guy

[00:40:46] and like it's very much about

[00:40:47] just her feelings for said guy

[00:40:48] but, you know, at least she's a much

[00:40:50] she's a great character that you love to watch

[00:40:52] And it's become a thing

[00:40:53] I think Tasha Robinson is the one

[00:40:54] who coined the Trinity syndrome

[00:40:56] Yeah

[00:40:57] Which is like the female lead

[00:40:58] in these kinds of movies

[00:40:59] where she's like the badass one

[00:41:00] Totally

[00:41:01] whose main driving force

[00:41:02] is she's angry that she wasn't

[00:41:03] the chosen one

[00:41:04] Fair

[00:41:05] Like sort of like what they do

[00:41:06] in the Lego movie for example

[00:41:08] Right, is what they're parodying

[00:41:09] You know, and some other films like that

[00:41:10] I mean, and Rey is a good subversion

[00:41:12] of that because she is the one

[00:41:13] Sure

[00:41:14] She's not the one who wants to be the one

[00:41:15] She's the one who finds out

[00:41:16] that she was chosen

[00:41:17] The movie is kind of flipping this

[00:41:18] very consciously

[00:41:19] Which is

[00:41:20] Which is great

[00:41:21] Cool

[00:41:22] Great

[00:41:23] So let's talk about the Matrix Reload

[00:41:24] Oh, no, but the thing I was going to say

[00:41:25] is that the Morpheus in the first movie

[00:41:27] is interesting because he's introduced

[00:41:29] to us as Lawrence Fishburne

[00:41:30] all this presence very stoic

[00:41:32] very still

[00:41:33] The deliverer of knowledge

[00:41:34] All knowing

[00:41:35] And then there's the moment where

[00:41:37] the oracle in that speech

[00:41:39] sort of explains to him like

[00:41:40] poor Morpheus

[00:41:41] He doesn't know what he's talking about

[00:41:43] And the next time you see Morpheus

[00:41:45] and I don't know if Lawrence Fishburne

[00:41:46] consciously factored this into his performance

[00:41:48] Or if it's just

[00:41:49] Hard to imagine

[00:41:50] This amazing thing that just happens in movies

[00:41:52] because of fucking as a medium

[00:41:54] But you look at Morpheus

[00:41:55] and suddenly he looks pathetic

[00:41:56] No, I mean it's a brilliant reversal

[00:41:58] on the part of the movie

[00:41:59] Absolutely

[00:42:00] Because it's right around halfway in

[00:42:01] This guy is so strong minded

[00:42:02] he still sticks to his principles

[00:42:03] and now we know as an audience

[00:42:04] that he's wrong

[00:42:05] And you watch him in that scene

[00:42:06] that I think you're talking about

[00:42:07] which is basically where he sacrifices himself

[00:42:09] to save Neo

[00:42:11] where he's taking on Agent Smith

[00:42:12] he like crashes out of the wall

[00:42:13] Yeah

[00:42:14] And instead of you being like

[00:42:15] yeah, you're like

[00:42:16] oh Jesus

[00:42:17] You feel really bad for him

[00:42:18] and he goes from being like

[00:42:20] the wise mentor character

[00:42:22] who's sort of like

[00:42:23] imperceptible

[00:42:25] to a somewhat demented

[00:42:28] kind of evangelical

[00:42:30] like a fanatic

[00:42:31] And a pitiable character

[00:42:33] and one you're really

[00:42:34] mostly invested in making sure

[00:42:36] he doesn't die because

[00:42:37] it feels like such a threat

[00:42:38] In this movie I think he's

[00:42:39] just so fucking stoic

[00:42:40] the whole time

[00:42:41] Well, he has the big speech

[00:42:43] Right

[00:42:45] Machines

[00:42:46] And then he's got like fucking

[00:42:48] like three big action sequences

[00:42:49] that felt like

[00:42:50] Very cool action sequences

[00:42:51] Lawrence Fishburne requesting

[00:42:52] like hey I'd love to do a thing

[00:42:53] with a gun and a knife

[00:42:54] No, I mean like I thought

[00:42:55] maybe just them thinking

[00:42:56] like hey like

[00:42:57] we're gonna have cool action scenes

[00:42:58] don't worry Morpheus

[00:42:59] you're gonna do X, Y and Z

[00:43:00] like Trinity you're gonna do this

[00:43:01] you're gonna fly off a motorcycle

[00:43:03] and shoot it into a power plant

[00:43:04] or whatever you know

[00:43:05] But it's a little bit

[00:43:06] But the character beat

[00:43:07] like the character beat

[00:43:08] with Morpheus is basically like

[00:43:10] he's

[00:43:12] like faith has been affirmed

[00:43:14] Neo is the one at least to him

[00:43:16] it's like this is absolute

[00:43:18] look at him he's flying around

[00:43:19] he's like nothing we've ever seen before

[00:43:22] and so when all this news

[00:43:23] is being presented to him

[00:43:24] like the machines are about

[00:43:25] to destroy Zion

[00:43:26] like the world might be ending

[00:43:27] he's just like yep

[00:43:29] great

[00:43:30] great that's what's supposed to happen

[00:43:32] Okay, so here's what

[00:43:33] bums me out about that right

[00:43:34] it's the Robocop problem for me

[00:43:36] which is Robocop is like

[00:43:38] my fourth favorite movie of all time

[00:43:39] I have never been

[00:43:41] able to watch Robocop too

[00:43:43] I've tried so many times to watch the first 20 minutes

[00:43:45] and I get so frustrated and bummed out

[00:43:46] I can't make it through

[00:43:47] and most films I love that much

[00:43:49] I'll watch the sequel

[00:43:50] even if I hate it

[00:43:51] Okay, but what's your point?

[00:43:52] The problem is

[00:43:53] the end of Robocop 1

[00:43:54] he becomes Murphy

[00:43:55] he like settles it

[00:43:56] but he has become whole

[00:43:57] But the movie has to

[00:43:58] you mean the sequel has to undo that

[00:43:59] And then Robocop 2 opens up

[00:44:00] and he's got the helmet back on

[00:44:01] he's talking and walking like a robot

[00:44:03] and he's fucking Robocop again

[00:44:04] I mean you would agree with me maybe

[00:44:05] objectively Robocop 2

[00:44:06] a worse sequel than the Matrix Reload

[00:44:08] No question

[00:44:09] no question

[00:44:10] um

[00:44:11] directed by Irvin Kirschner

[00:44:12] and who did

[00:44:13] by Frank Miller

[00:44:14] the Superior Empire Strikes Back

[00:44:16] but

[00:44:18] there's a bit of that problem for me

[00:44:20] where it's like the arc of Morpheus

[00:44:22] and I understand that arc is more

[00:44:23] how the audience changes

[00:44:24] their relationship to him

[00:44:25] Sure

[00:44:26] than how he changes

[00:44:27] Yeah

[00:44:28] is like he goes from being this

[00:44:29] wise all-knowing figure

[00:44:30] of just like such

[00:44:31] moral and

[00:44:32] and philosophical integrity

[00:44:34] Right and certitude

[00:44:35] to then being this like

[00:44:37] is he pathetic

[00:44:38] or is he a victim

[00:44:39] Somewhat of a

[00:44:40] you know

[00:44:41] he's got blinkered

[00:44:42] like fanatic

[00:44:43] Yeah and then because

[00:44:44] Neo does

[00:44:45] end up being the one

[00:44:46] and when that happens

[00:44:47] at the end of the first movie

[00:44:48] there's you know

[00:44:49] it's somewhat emotional

[00:44:50] when Morpheus is like

[00:44:51] reaffirms in his beliefs

[00:44:52] he was the one

[00:44:53] he was correct

[00:44:54] it worked

[00:44:55] and then we watch this movie

[00:44:56] and now he just knows

[00:44:57] that he's right

[00:44:58] and it's like

[00:44:59] But does he

[00:45:00] because this is the thing

[00:45:01] you know so the reversal

[00:45:02] of the movie

[00:45:03] is kind of the same

[00:45:04] which is something

[00:45:05] you could criticize it for

[00:45:06] you know the

[00:45:07] reversal of the movie

[00:45:08] is like

[00:45:09] at the end of the movie

[00:45:10] like should we talk about

[00:45:11] the plot of the movie

[00:45:12] though I feel like

[00:45:13] I mean I feel like

[00:45:14] the plot is like

[00:45:15] it's just a series of

[00:45:16] the plot is

[00:45:17] Yeah it's very

[00:45:18] video gamey

[00:45:19] Yes

[00:45:20] to you know

[00:45:21] to its discreet

[00:45:22] like you know

[00:45:23] it's a lot of hunt

[00:45:24] and hunt and find

[00:45:25] we need to go

[00:45:26] get the thing

[00:45:27] from the guy

[00:45:28] Well it's like objective

[00:45:29] base but it's objective

[00:45:30] base in which it's like

[00:45:31] okay you have to

[00:45:32] go through these hallways

[00:45:33] and kill all these guys

[00:45:34] and then when you get

[00:45:35] to the end of there

[00:45:36] there's a cut scene

[00:45:37] and then the cut scene

[00:45:38] is like four minutes

[00:45:39] and then the most brilliant scene

[00:45:40] in the movie

[00:45:41] any of the movies maybe

[00:45:42] Which one are you talking about?

[00:45:43] The architect

[00:45:44] Well I'm saying in general

[00:45:45] there's a lot of that

[00:45:46] You know where it's like

[00:45:47] like the Merovingian

[00:45:48] There's an action scene

[00:45:49] to get to the Merovingian

[00:45:50] and then there's an action scene

[00:45:51] to get to the key master

[00:45:52] and the key maker

[00:45:53] and then to the architect

[00:45:54] Right

[00:45:55] And even a little bit

[00:45:56] right at the beginning

[00:45:57] to like

[00:45:58] to get to Zion

[00:45:59] Yeah

[00:46:00] And especially with like

[00:46:01] you know like

[00:46:02] There's all these sub bosses

[00:46:03] like there's like

[00:46:04] the twins

[00:46:05] who are these characters

[00:46:06] and

[00:46:07] they're magic guys

[00:46:08] They do something

[00:46:09] they look crazy

[00:46:10] Look at them

[00:46:11] You know no characterization

[00:46:12] no effort

[00:46:13] to ground them

[00:46:14] in any kind of

[00:46:15] reality of the world

[00:46:16] It's just like

[00:46:17] Oh there's a bunch of wackos

[00:46:18] And it's a feeling

[00:46:19] I would get playing

[00:46:20] like a lot of like

[00:46:21] Japanese video games

[00:46:22] when I was like a kid

[00:46:23] where I'd be like

[00:46:24] there's clearly a very

[00:46:25] well thought out mythology here

[00:46:26] I can't get it

[00:46:27] Every time the cut scenes

[00:46:28] happen I'm a little bit lost

[00:46:29] and then it goes back to action

[00:46:30] I'm like

[00:46:31] okay I guess I just gotta

[00:46:32] run down the hallway

[00:46:33] and shoot the guys

[00:46:34] Like I don't know why

[00:46:35] I'm doing this

[00:46:36] So let me hold off on Morpheus

[00:46:38] this thing for a second

[00:46:39] and let's just go through

[00:46:40] the basics of the plot

[00:46:41] Okay

[00:46:42] So the plot of the movie is

[00:46:43] where six months later

[00:46:45] Yeah

[00:46:46] Neo and Trinity and Morpheus

[00:46:48] and what's

[00:46:49] what's Harold Perrono's name

[00:46:51] Link

[00:46:52] Or like a skeleton crew

[00:46:53] of the Nebuchadnezzar

[00:46:54] They don't have

[00:46:55] switch in a pocket

[00:46:56] and so on

[00:46:57] have not been replaced

[00:46:58] which is sort of annoying

[00:46:59] They say that at one point

[00:47:00] They say that

[00:47:01] like he hasn't recruit

[00:47:02] The kid says

[00:47:03] like I know you need

[00:47:04] new crew members

[00:47:05] to be one of them

[00:47:06] You know like so there's a reference to it

[00:47:07] but it doesn't

[00:47:08] But sometime in the last six months

[00:47:09] Dozer died

[00:47:10] and Link replaced Dozer

[00:47:11] but they didn't replace him

[00:47:12] Tank died

[00:47:13] Sorry I keep fucking confusing them

[00:47:14] Tank died because Marcus Chong

[00:47:16] wanted a lot of money

[00:47:17] or whatever

[00:47:18] So they replace him

[00:47:19] But they haven't restaffed

[00:47:20] the rest of the team

[00:47:21] Right

[00:47:22] And he's married to

[00:47:24] Tank and Dozer's sister

[00:47:26] Yeah played by Nona Gay

[00:47:28] Her name is Z

[00:47:29] and she was going to be

[00:47:30] played by Aliyah

[00:47:31] This movie had a very

[00:47:32] tortured production

[00:47:34] because two of its characters

[00:47:36] actors died in the middle of it

[00:47:38] Aliyah and Gloria Foster

[00:47:39] which is a bummer

[00:47:40] Also and then

[00:47:42] his

[00:47:43] I mean Aliyah's death was

[00:47:44] tragedy for larger reasons as well

[00:47:46] just because she was the best

[00:47:48] The sister-in-law

[00:47:50] is played by

[00:47:51] by Laurence Cisner's wife

[00:47:53] by Gina Torres

[00:47:54] Right, right, yes

[00:47:55] Okay that's what I thought

[00:47:56] It goes so quick I didn't know

[00:47:57] They may not have been

[00:47:58] I forget when they met

[00:47:59] Interesting

[00:48:00] They may have met on this

[00:48:01] for all I know

[00:48:02] Because it is kind of funny

[00:48:03] Quickside bar

[00:48:04] Yeah it is weird

[00:48:05] Yeah I wonder if it was

[00:48:06] They married in 2002

[00:48:07] so they sounds like

[00:48:08] they might have met

[00:48:09] when they were making this movie

[00:48:10] So good for them

[00:48:11] Yeah I love that

[00:48:12] Still married

[00:48:13] Quickside bar

[00:48:14] What happened to Nona Gay

[00:48:15] I liked her

[00:48:16] It's a good question

[00:48:17] She's in Aliyah

[00:48:18] She was really good in Aliyah

[00:48:19] That's where she popped for me

[00:48:20] She plays the

[00:48:21] second wife

[00:48:22] right who's the

[00:48:23] more sort of religious

[00:48:24] devout Muslim

[00:48:25] Which is my favorite chunk

[00:48:26] of the movie

[00:48:27] I love the earlier chunk

[00:48:28] with Jada Pinkett Smith

[00:48:29] where she plays

[00:48:30] like her first

[00:48:31] wilder wife

[00:48:32] because well I love Aliyah

[00:48:33] I think it's a good movie

[00:48:34] I think it's a great movie

[00:48:35] So she was around

[00:48:36] but I don't know

[00:48:38] Yeah she didn't really do anything

[00:48:40] She's in XXX state of the union

[00:48:42] Oh yeah she is

[00:48:43] And that's it

[00:48:44] That's like it

[00:48:45] I don't know

[00:48:46] She's Marvin Gaye's what

[00:48:47] daughter

[00:48:48] I always thought she was going to be really big

[00:48:49] I liked her a lot

[00:48:50] She's a pretty winning presence

[00:48:51] in this movie

[00:48:52] But it's not

[00:48:53] She's gorgeous

[00:48:54] She's got an unbelievable face

[00:48:55] I mean it's a pretty tiny role

[00:48:56] in this one

[00:48:57] It's a bigger role

[00:48:58] in a revolution

[00:48:59] Yeah and especially

[00:49:00] because she was like

[00:49:01] I just tipped to take over something for Aliyah

[00:49:02] and Aliyah at that point

[00:49:03] she had done

[00:49:04] She'd done Romeo Must Die

[00:49:05] and Queen of the Damned

[00:49:06] Queen of the Damned

[00:49:07] and Joel Silver did both of those

[00:49:08] and it felt like

[00:49:09] he had sort of picked her

[00:49:10] He was building her up

[00:49:11] as like and now I'm going to put her in a matrix

[00:49:12] and then she's going to be huge

[00:49:13] and you know

[00:49:14] So when like

[00:49:15] Nona Gaye who was relatively unknown

[00:49:17] got the part instead

[00:49:18] it was like

[00:49:19] well now she's going to be

[00:49:20] and then yeah

[00:49:21] You know they may have rewritten it

[00:49:22] a little bit to scale it

[00:49:23] but I don't know it doesn't matter

[00:49:24] Anyway so yeah

[00:49:25] I do think it's important to mention

[00:49:26] we start this movie

[00:49:27] in media res in a dream

[00:49:29] We started with a dream

[00:49:31] That's replayed three times over the course of the film

[00:49:33] that Nia was having of Trinity's death

[00:49:35] Trinity like in taking on some agents

[00:49:37] in an office building

[00:49:38] shooting out of a window

[00:49:39] it's really beautifully shot

[00:49:40] It's awesome

[00:49:41] She's falling down to the ground

[00:49:42] shooting up at an agent over her

[00:49:44] She gets shot

[00:49:45] and then she crashes into a

[00:49:46] a parked car

[00:49:47] like she you know

[00:49:48] and so he's having visions of her death

[00:49:50] Right

[00:49:51] So that's

[00:49:52] that's

[00:49:53] you're loading the movie

[00:49:54] in a similar way to like revenge on the sip

[00:49:55] right

[00:49:56] You're loading this movie where Nia was worried

[00:49:57] like

[00:49:58] something bad is going to happen

[00:49:59] That's his main motivation for the movie

[00:50:01] His main motivation is how do I

[00:50:03] What will prevent her from dying

[00:50:05] So you've got the Nebuchadnezzar

[00:50:07] You got Nia

[00:50:08] He's the one he can fly

[00:50:10] that seems to be his major one power

[00:50:12] in the Matrix

[00:50:13] Superman now

[00:50:14] He's kind of Superman

[00:50:15] he can fight agents

[00:50:16] like it's nothing

[00:50:17] There's a scene early on

[00:50:18] where he fights two agents

[00:50:19] and it's just like a fun action scene

[00:50:21] like there's nothing really to it

[00:50:23] And they land like a one hit on him

[00:50:25] and he goes oh upgrade

[00:50:26] it's like it's like

[00:50:27] Oh I didn't know the technology got better

[00:50:28] but watch all upgrade

[00:50:29] now I can fight you

[00:50:30] I just didn't know you were at like

[00:50:32] OS4

[00:50:33] I can do that

[00:50:34] There's a moment a little later

[00:50:35] where he bleeds

[00:50:36] like yeah he is still a human

[00:50:38] being as they say

[00:50:39] but it's like you know

[00:50:40] he's like kind of

[00:50:41] he's like beating the game

[00:50:42] As they say in the world of the tick

[00:50:44] the tick is nigh invulnerable

[00:50:46] He can be killed

[00:50:47] but we've never seen anyone come close

[00:50:48] It just hasn't happened yet

[00:50:49] Right

[00:50:50] So they're just doing their thing

[00:50:53] and like they are confronted very early on

[00:50:56] with this news from an animatrix movie

[00:50:59] that like the machines are coming

[00:51:01] they're tunneling down

[00:51:03] and they're gonna eat Zion

[00:51:05] They're gonna eat the city as Ion

[00:51:06] At this point anyone who saw Dreamcatcher in theaters

[00:51:08] is like amped

[00:51:09] that they were like

[00:51:10] the fucking $13 valedictor

[00:51:13] There's no way to validate

[00:51:15] the fact that you saw Dreamcatcher in theaters

[00:51:17] which is literally about poop monsters

[00:51:19] Have you seen Dreamcatcher?

[00:51:21] What a movie that is

[00:51:22] Who made that?

[00:51:23] Someone good made that movie

[00:51:24] Lawrence Kasdan

[00:51:25] The screenwriter of Raiders of the Lost Ark

[00:51:28] and Pirates Right Back

[00:51:30] at the Flores of the Lakers

[00:51:31] Body Heat

[00:51:32] I mean to his credit he was adapting a book

[00:51:34] by Stephen King

[00:51:35] that was about poop monsters

[00:51:36] It's not like he added that in

[00:51:38] And you're not

[00:51:39] They're called shit weasels

[00:51:40] in the movie

[00:51:41] This is real

[00:51:42] This is a real movie

[00:51:43] Yeah, it stars Morgan Freeman

[00:51:45] Damien Lewis

[00:51:46] Donnie Wahlberg

[00:51:47] Anyway

[00:51:48] Morgan Freeman

[00:51:49] Morgan Freeman also is the biggest

[00:51:51] in the history of the universe

[00:51:52] that anyone's ever had

[00:51:53] in the history of movie

[00:51:54] It's crazy

[00:51:55] He looks like Owl from when he was a kid

[00:51:57] Alright so

[00:51:59] So they return to Zion

[00:52:00] And we see Zion

[00:52:01] The city under the earth

[00:52:03] Right

[00:52:04] And just what you want

[00:52:06] out of a big franchise movie like this

[00:52:07] Let's go see that really cool place

[00:52:09] What is it?

[00:52:10] Just a frustrating mess of bureaucracy

[00:52:12] Yup

[00:52:13] It's a bummer

[00:52:15] Just a bummer

[00:52:16] Yeah

[00:52:17] Just a huge bummer

[00:52:18] But

[00:52:19] They have non-penetrative orgies all the time

[00:52:21] We'll get to the orgy

[00:52:23] The orgy I think is where 99%

[00:52:25] of the Matrix Reload audiences

[00:52:26] drops out

[00:52:27] Like drops the movie

[00:52:28] Like they're like

[00:52:29] I don't like this

[00:52:30] And then obviously

[00:52:31] they just don't pick it back up

[00:52:32] Like it's like

[00:52:33] That's where it loses

[00:52:34] That's the you

[00:52:35] reciting the architect's speech

[00:52:37] of the movie

[00:52:38] See it's weird

[00:52:39] Yeah, good analogy

[00:52:40] It's weird

[00:52:41] It's weird

[00:52:42] I'm making the joke about it

[00:52:43] because it's the joke to make

[00:52:44] But I actually have no problem with the orgy

[00:52:46] Me neither

[00:52:47] I think it's good

[00:52:48] And I also like it now

[00:52:49] as sort of like

[00:52:50] a sign of what's to come of like

[00:52:52] The Wachowskis were seen as

[00:52:53] these sort of like

[00:52:54] whole didactic like

[00:52:55] nerd filmmakers

[00:52:56] And then with the sequel

[00:52:57] they're like

[00:52:58] No, we're all about this sort of like

[00:52:59] unity of spirit

[00:53:00] and this free love

[00:53:01] kind of thing

[00:53:02] And we are all just

[00:53:03] weird pale little people

[00:53:04] with holes that should

[00:53:05] just all pick up

[00:53:06] in like weird androgynous fashion

[00:53:08] Like I love in that scene

[00:53:09] the sex scene between

[00:53:10] Neo and Trinity

[00:53:11] that you literally can't tell

[00:53:12] the difference between them

[00:53:13] when you cut to a wide

[00:53:14] which is like

[00:53:15] how the sex scene is mostly shot

[00:53:16] Yeah

[00:53:17] They're just two little white things

[00:53:18] just kind of you know

[00:53:19] Yeah and it's like

[00:53:20] they're really naked in that scene

[00:53:21] but all you're seeing

[00:53:22] are their ports

[00:53:23] Yeah, you're just seeing

[00:53:24] all their little

[00:53:25] yeah jack holes

[00:53:26] But there's like a full body

[00:53:27] like a wide shot

[00:53:28] of like their two

[00:53:29] fully naked bodies

[00:53:30] fully thrusting

[00:53:31] not like obscured angles

[00:53:32] or anything

[00:53:33] But you're not seeing

[00:53:34] like you know

[00:53:35] side boob

[00:53:36] you're not seeing

[00:53:37] like under ball

[00:53:38] You're just seeing like

[00:53:39] I wish you saw some

[00:53:40] under ball to be fair

[00:53:41] I love to see

[00:53:42] I bet Keanu's got great balls

[00:53:43] Of course he does

[00:53:44] But you're seeing

[00:53:45] a bunch of them holes

[00:53:46] What if you saw like

[00:53:47] the most beautiful actor

[00:53:48] naked and he just had

[00:53:49] the most horrifically ugly penis

[00:53:50] and you're just like

[00:53:51] God damn it

[00:53:52] Can I say this is the reason

[00:53:53] like you know

[00:53:54] I aspire to be

[00:53:55] making my own films

[00:53:56] eventually

[00:53:57] I'm like a big proponent

[00:53:58] of getting more dicks in film

[00:53:59] You gonna get your dick out?

[00:54:00] I don't want to

[00:54:01] I mean look

[00:54:02] you know

[00:54:03] if the people demand it

[00:54:04] I just

[00:54:05] I would love to

[00:54:06] any film I make

[00:54:07] make someone show their dick

[00:54:08] Absolutely

[00:54:09] Just because

[00:54:10] A. I think we need

[00:54:11] to balance it out

[00:54:12] and B. it's like

[00:54:13] there's something fascinating

[00:54:14] like in the way that

[00:54:15] everything is fascinating

[00:54:16] when it's in a movie

[00:54:17] like think about

[00:54:18] like how many different types

[00:54:19] of boobs you've seen

[00:54:20] just because you've seen movies

[00:54:22] Yeah no I know what you're saying

[00:54:23] You see more boobs

[00:54:24] and you'll get to see

[00:54:25] in your own life

[00:54:26] and in penises it's like

[00:54:27] where men suck

[00:54:28] and we all

[00:54:29] I don't want to fucking show my

[00:54:30] Unless you're like a jock

[00:54:31] and you slap it in someone's face

[00:54:32] This is a whole other company

[00:54:34] Can I make a request?

[00:54:35] Can I talk about dicks for 40 minutes?

[00:54:36] It's more just

[00:54:37] Just a really quick request

[00:54:38] I'd like to see

[00:54:39] a dick

[00:54:40] but with the

[00:54:41] the gentleman attached

[00:54:42] to it crying

[00:54:43] Yes I'd love to see that

[00:54:44] Because you don't see men

[00:54:45] like really really cry

[00:54:47] It's very vulnerable

[00:54:48] while also have the penis

[00:54:49] I would say Jason Seagal's

[00:54:50] performance in Forgetting Sarah Marshall

[00:54:52] is the closest you get to that

[00:54:54] and that's him

[00:54:55] he's very much going for the fact

[00:54:56] that like being naked

[00:54:57] is a very vulnerable position

[00:54:58] to be in that movie

[00:54:59] and it works

[00:55:00] but at the same time

[00:55:01] he's got like a pretty nice

[00:55:02] big penis

[00:55:03] and you're just like

[00:55:04] he just wants to show it off

[00:55:05] Right well and it's two things

[00:55:06] like either it's

[00:55:07] penis as a joke

[00:55:08] right

[00:55:09] penis as a punchline

[00:55:10] or it's like

[00:55:11] Michael Fassbanger shows a dick

[00:55:12] and it's like of course

[00:55:13] with a dick like that

[00:55:14] you'd show it

[00:55:15] there's like that attitude

[00:55:16] I appreciate that Michael Fassbanger

[00:55:17] gets like legit furious

[00:55:18] when people talk about it though

[00:55:19] he's like

[00:55:20] I was in a movie

[00:55:21] it's like it's fucking art

[00:55:22] and I took my dick out

[00:55:23] or I didn't take my dick out

[00:55:24] it's like a scene

[00:55:25] I would just love to see

[00:55:26] just fuck you

[00:55:27] don't talk about me Peter

[00:55:28] you're weird though

[00:55:29] I'd love to see a movie

[00:55:30] what if someone in an interview

[00:55:31] was like nice vagina

[00:55:32] I saw your vagina

[00:55:33] in a cold cabin

[00:55:34] in a cold mountain

[00:55:35] we were like hot mountain

[00:55:37] Yeah that is a really good point

[00:55:38] that is a weird double standard there

[00:55:40] anyway that's the one

[00:55:41] negative double standard towards men

[00:55:42] I just

[00:55:43] all I'm saying is

[00:55:44] I'll leave it at this

[00:55:45] I would love to get to see

[00:55:46] like Chris Hemsworth

[00:55:47] like crooked little dick

[00:55:48] you know I'd love to like

[00:55:49] see in a movie and be like

[00:55:50] it's not a joke

[00:55:51] that Huntsman Winters war

[00:55:52] it's not because his dick is great

[00:55:53] and then I'd love to see

[00:55:55] Paul G. Monti's fat cock

[00:55:56] like I just want to see

[00:55:57] a diversity of cocks

[00:55:58] and be surprised at like

[00:55:59] oh really

[00:56:00] okay let's move on

[00:56:01] probably just because

[00:56:02] we have a lot to get through

[00:56:03] not because I don't enjoy

[00:56:04] this discussion

[00:56:05] proprick more more dicks

[00:56:06] in movies

[00:56:07] but anyway they return to Zion

[00:56:08] and you know

[00:56:09] much like the Jedi council

[00:56:10] of the Prince

[00:56:11] really hard yeah no it's good

[00:56:12] it's good I'm 100% on board

[00:56:14] I really want to

[00:56:15] I'm making light of this thing

[00:56:16] but I also think like

[00:56:17] let's fucking let's

[00:56:18] yeah diversity anyway

[00:56:19] matrix reloading

[00:56:20] but like don't you

[00:56:21] it's a fair comparison to

[00:56:22] like the Jedi council shit

[00:56:23] or whatever where it's

[00:56:24] like they show up

[00:56:25] and it's like

[00:56:26] we only know Morpheus

[00:56:27] he's like the leader

[00:56:28] in our eyes

[00:56:29] right at this point

[00:56:30] and they're basically just

[00:56:31] like Morpheus

[00:56:32] like why are you so

[00:56:33] rebellious

[00:56:34] like why aren't you back

[00:56:35] here to defend the city

[00:56:36] like they are the worst

[00:56:37] yeah Harry Lennox

[00:56:39] who's a very good actor

[00:56:40] like a lot of him

[00:56:41] yeah what was he

[00:56:42] who's just in Batman

[00:56:43] versus Superman

[00:56:44] poor guy

[00:56:45] you know whatever

[00:56:46] he's got a lot of gravitas

[00:56:47] no matter what

[00:56:48] he's great actor

[00:56:49] he's like

[00:56:50] he's like this stern

[00:56:51] like general of the army

[00:56:53] who's now dating Naiobé

[00:56:55] now dating Morpheus

[00:56:56] his ex-girlfriend Naiobé

[00:56:58] Jada Pinkett's man

[00:56:59] yeah

[00:57:00] which Trinity's

[00:57:01] like Naiobé

[00:57:02] used to be with Morpheus

[00:57:03] now she's with

[00:57:04] Locke

[00:57:05] and you're just like

[00:57:06] when do people

[00:57:07] date in this movie

[00:57:08] like they fly hovercraps

[00:57:09] around the sewers

[00:57:10] also when are they like

[00:57:11] oh let's get a cup of protein

[00:57:12] slop

[00:57:13] also these are

[00:57:14] three of the most

[00:57:15] emotionally distant characters

[00:57:17] I've ever seen

[00:57:18] totally they are like

[00:57:19] I mean look this is a movie

[00:57:20] that is emotionally reserved

[00:57:21] yeah

[00:57:22] in every way

[00:57:23] but these three characters

[00:57:24] in particular

[00:57:25] you know you lost Joey Pants

[00:57:26] and that was

[00:57:27] that was it made you lost

[00:57:28] and mouse and switch

[00:57:29] I mean switch was such

[00:57:30] a switch was such a

[00:57:31] fucking goop

[00:57:32] she was a live wire

[00:57:33] oh my god

[00:57:34] do you remember how funny

[00:57:35] switches

[00:57:36] not like this

[00:57:37] okay

[00:57:38] not like this

[00:57:39] so they show back up

[00:57:40] and to the

[00:57:41] Chaska's credit

[00:57:42] I mentioned it last week

[00:57:43] but I want to talk about it

[00:57:44] like the

[00:57:45] the council of elders

[00:57:46] or whatever is basically

[00:57:47] just like a

[00:57:48] like pan

[00:57:49] pangea

[00:57:50] like group of people

[00:57:51] it's like every race

[00:57:52] you can imagine

[00:57:53] Cornell West is there

[00:57:54] wearing like

[00:57:55] an old mouth organ

[00:57:56] around his neck

[00:57:57] do you know that

[00:57:58] Cornell West has a commentary

[00:57:59] track on the DVD

[00:58:00] Cornell West loves

[00:58:01] the Matrix movies

[00:58:02] and has all these fascinating

[00:58:03] thoughts on them

[00:58:04] yeah

[00:58:05] you know and there's

[00:58:06] like a bunch of other

[00:58:07] main guy Maffunae

[00:58:08] who becomes bigger in

[00:58:09] revolutions

[00:58:10] yeah you just

[00:58:11] see him very briefly

[00:58:12] but he's like

[00:58:13] I mean his name is clearly

[00:58:14] referenced to share Maffunae

[00:58:15] who's like a great

[00:58:16] Japanese actor

[00:58:17] and then he looks

[00:58:18] like Mauryan

[00:58:19] like everything's just

[00:58:20] like so like

[00:58:21] meshed together

[00:58:22] you know

[00:58:23] yeah I'm trying to find

[00:58:24] who plays Maffunae

[00:58:25] forget the

[00:58:26] um

[00:58:27] but even the

[00:58:28] order scene

[00:58:29] Nathaniel Lease is his name

[00:58:30] the thing I like about

[00:58:31] the order scene

[00:58:32] is it's just like

[00:58:33] all these bodies

[00:58:34] kind of look the same

[00:58:35] and you're talking

[00:58:36] about this like

[00:58:37] wide swath

[00:58:38] of like

[00:58:39] ethnicities and body types

[00:58:40] and everything

[00:58:41] but even the way it's lit

[00:58:42] the way it's colored

[00:58:43] the way it's art directed

[00:58:44] their costumes

[00:58:45] the cave itself

[00:58:46] it's just like

[00:58:47] a mush of parts

[00:58:48] right now

[00:58:49] okay

[00:58:50] um

[00:58:51] yeah this movie's

[00:58:52] incredibly diverse

[00:58:53] without feeling like

[00:58:54] it's trying to do

[00:58:55] the

[00:58:56] United Colors

[00:58:57] a Benton thing

[00:58:58] you know where it's

[00:58:59] just like

[00:59:00] look we checked off each box

[00:59:01] we were a captain planet

[00:59:02] we got one of each

[00:59:03] you know it's just

[00:59:04] like here's just

[00:59:05] like I'm gonna take

[00:59:06] a little bit

[00:59:07] but I'll take what I can get

[00:59:08] but

[00:59:09] but

[00:59:10] story wise I'll admit

[00:59:11] things flow to a

[00:59:12] a bleeding halt

[00:59:13] uh-huh

[00:59:14] you've got this scene

[00:59:15] this scene that

[00:59:16] as a teenager

[00:59:17] I hate it

[00:59:18] where Neo talks

[00:59:19] to like

[00:59:20] the

[00:59:21] counselor

[00:59:22] whatever the sort of

[00:59:23] political leader

[00:59:24] yeah

[00:59:25] this old man

[00:59:26] I forget who plays him too

[00:59:27] he's also got

[00:59:28] pretty

[00:59:29] pretty bushy eyebrows

[00:59:30] that guy

[00:59:31] yeah I like that

[00:59:32] Anthony Zerbe is his name

[00:59:33] yeah

[00:59:34] and like midway through

[00:59:35] Neo's like

[00:59:36] so what do you

[00:59:37] like what's your point

[00:59:38] he's like

[00:59:39] I have no point

[00:59:40] and you're just like

[00:59:41] what if we've been listening

[00:59:42] to these guys talk for ten minutes

[00:59:43] they literally go

[00:59:44] what's your point

[00:59:45] I have no point

[00:59:46] then you shouldn't have said it

[00:59:47] good point

[00:59:48] like Neo responds

[00:59:49] to

[00:59:50] I have no point

[00:59:51] with another line

[00:59:52] and then he goes

[00:59:53] good point

[00:59:54] yeah

[00:59:55] like it's like

[00:59:56] it's like a

[00:59:57] fucking like

[00:59:58] bit of fry and lorry sketch

[00:59:59] for a second

[01:00:00] yeah

[01:00:01] and you know there's a lot

[01:00:02] of

[01:00:03] but it's the hardest to grasp onto

[01:00:05] just because it's delivered

[01:00:06] in a pretty dull way

[01:00:07] it's really dull

[01:00:08] and I remember

[01:00:09] that scene was like

[01:00:10] that and the architect

[01:00:11] scene where the main reason

[01:00:12] I saw the film three times

[01:00:13] in theaters because I was like

[01:00:14] if I can crack these two scenes

[01:00:15] maybe the movie makes sense

[01:00:17] I'll like it

[01:00:18] you really have to listen

[01:00:19] to it and unfortunately

[01:00:20] much like the Lucas movies

[01:00:22] you know

[01:00:23] the prequels

[01:00:24] it's hard

[01:00:25] and

[01:00:26] you know

[01:00:27] the idea I think

[01:00:28] that he's saying is

[01:00:29] he's like look

[01:00:30] machines are here

[01:00:31] yeah

[01:00:32] it is a symbiotic thing

[01:00:34] and like

[01:00:35] the idea of us being at war

[01:00:36] with them

[01:00:37] in this sort of like never ending

[01:00:38] battle

[01:00:39] but like is ludicrous

[01:00:40] like that's never going to

[01:00:41] make any sense

[01:00:42] well and he says to Neo

[01:00:43] like why do you feel more

[01:00:44] comfortable with these

[01:00:45] machines than the other

[01:00:46] machines

[01:00:47] and Neo goes like

[01:00:48] because we can control them

[01:00:49] and he's like

[01:00:50] you mean you can destroy them

[01:00:51] right

[01:00:52] and so it's like

[01:00:53] is control just power

[01:00:54] is control feeling that

[01:00:55] you're superior

[01:00:56] and this movie is a lot

[01:00:57] about control

[01:00:58] as is the

[01:00:59] all the matrix movies

[01:01:00] are about that

[01:01:01] the prophecy

[01:01:02] like will he end this

[01:01:03] and like make it all better

[01:01:04] but the idea

[01:01:05] which Morpheus is like

[01:01:06] committed that he will

[01:01:07] that's why Morpheus isn't scared

[01:01:08] that like Zion's supposed to

[01:01:09] be destroyed by the machines

[01:01:10] because it's like

[01:01:11] it doesn't matter Neo's going to fix it

[01:01:12] I know he will

[01:01:13] the idea in their minds

[01:01:14] are telling themselves

[01:01:15] the prophecy is

[01:01:16] a world of harmony

[01:01:17] yeah

[01:01:18] but what this guy

[01:01:19] is pointing out is

[01:01:20] like it's not harmony

[01:01:21] harmony for you is knowing

[01:01:22] that you could destroy

[01:01:23] the machines at any time

[01:01:24] harmony is dominance

[01:01:25] that's not coexisting

[01:01:26] that's just you having the power

[01:01:27] which I think is kind of

[01:01:28] interesting

[01:01:29] right and then

[01:01:30] you know

[01:01:31] maybe ill-advised long scene

[01:01:32] where Morpheus gives this crazy speech

[01:01:34] which is supposed to be like

[01:01:35] this sort of sermon

[01:01:36] on the mount type

[01:01:37] like fanatical thing

[01:01:38] yeah

[01:01:39] where he's like

[01:01:40] we must not be afraid

[01:01:41] machines

[01:01:42] can you dig it

[01:01:43] and then there's like

[01:01:44] a really long dance sequence

[01:01:45] and then a really long

[01:01:46] sex sequence

[01:01:47] and none of it

[01:01:48] you know

[01:01:49] feels very

[01:01:50] important to the story

[01:01:52] they're intercuting between

[01:01:53] Neo

[01:01:54] and

[01:01:55] Trandy fucking

[01:01:56] which I'm way into

[01:01:57] like I'm a big fan of that

[01:01:59] and I said in the past

[01:02:00] that last episode

[01:02:01] I don't believe that

[01:02:02] a couple is actually together

[01:02:03] unless they have

[01:02:04] on same way it's got sex on screen

[01:02:05] so I was a fan of that

[01:02:06] the orgy though

[01:02:07] is just people waving their arms around

[01:02:09] like it doesn't look like they're fucking

[01:02:10] it's like a club scene

[01:02:11] they're getting very handsy

[01:02:12] but like

[01:02:13] right

[01:02:14] you know and you see

[01:02:15] like

[01:02:16] Harold Perron

[01:02:17] Link dancing with Nona

[01:02:18] get you know

[01:02:19] you sort of grinding up

[01:02:20] on each other

[01:02:21] and you're like

[01:02:22] okay

[01:02:23] isn't this like a sci-fi movie

[01:02:24] you know

[01:02:25] yeah

[01:02:26] they're trying to advance

[01:02:27] this big utopian kind of like

[01:02:29] you know massive people

[01:02:30] you know

[01:02:31] like that's the idea

[01:02:32] oh sorry

[01:02:33] we have to talk about this one joke in the movie

[01:02:34] they're

[01:02:35] oh the pussy joke

[01:02:36] yes

[01:02:37] pretty weird

[01:02:38] pretty fucking weird

[01:02:39] so Harold Perron

[01:02:40] you know

[01:02:41] wants to rush home to his wife and see her

[01:02:42] hasn't seen her in a while

[01:02:43] they dock

[01:02:44] Zion

[01:02:45] yeah

[01:02:46] he runs into his apartment

[01:02:47] everyone's apartment is basically

[01:02:48] like a submarine locker

[01:02:49] yep

[01:02:50] and he says

[01:02:51] where's my puss

[01:02:52] and then he's like cut off

[01:02:53] when he sees that

[01:02:54] like the sister-in-law

[01:02:55] is over

[01:02:56] the nephew and niece

[01:02:59] so was his plan

[01:03:00] just to run in

[01:03:01] and be like

[01:03:02] where's my pussy

[01:03:03] that's his plan

[01:03:04] I don't think it was with that attitude

[01:03:05] it was where's my pussy

[01:03:07] but it's still a weird thing to say

[01:03:08] because he's singing a very

[01:03:09] cheery way

[01:03:10] he's singing like he's fucking like

[01:03:11] you know

[01:03:12] like

[01:03:13] it's a leave it to beaver

[01:03:14] like style like entrance into the home

[01:03:15] very much

[01:03:16] very much

[01:03:17] and that's why I thought a cat

[01:03:18] was gonna appear

[01:03:19] me too

[01:03:20] it felt like that was the mister act

[01:03:21] it almost feels like

[01:03:22] his like

[01:03:23] cute pet name for her

[01:03:24] like honey or sweetie

[01:03:25] is pussy

[01:03:26] but that can't be the case

[01:03:29] yeah that's pretty reductive to make

[01:03:30] like

[01:03:31] it's maybe the one joke in the whole movie

[01:03:33] is there another joke in this movie?

[01:03:34] I don't think there's another joke in the movie

[01:03:35] there's maybe one other

[01:03:36] like where Trinny says something like

[01:03:38] well that's difficult

[01:03:40] she has a few times where she like

[01:03:41] that'll leave her mark

[01:03:42] yeah that'll leave her mark

[01:03:44] that's gotta hurt

[01:03:45] alright let's move forward

[01:03:46] you don't see that every day

[01:03:47] so

[01:03:48] so the ship

[01:03:49] he's standing right behind me isn't he

[01:03:51] the number one worst joke in the world

[01:03:54] so

[01:03:56] Neo

[01:03:57] while they're there

[01:03:58] Neo gets a message from the Oracle

[01:04:01] so they have to like

[01:04:02] go back into the matrix

[01:04:04] and I'm getting excited because the Oracle

[01:04:05] we know is my favorite part of the film

[01:04:07] of the first movie

[01:04:08] so they plug back in

[01:04:09] you know they fly out

[01:04:10] and they plug back into the matrix

[01:04:12] and he meets

[01:04:14] a character called

[01:04:15] Seraph

[01:04:16] who is a Chinese

[01:04:18] action star calling Chew

[01:04:20] I think he's Taiwanese technically

[01:04:22] he's like drinking tea

[01:04:24] this was a part that they

[01:04:26] they offered to Michelle Yo

[01:04:28] and she was gonna play it

[01:04:29] and then like something

[01:04:30] scheduling happened so she couldn't do it

[01:04:31] and then they offered it to Jetly

[01:04:32] and Jetly said no

[01:04:33] to his credit

[01:04:34] it's not a major role

[01:04:35] why would either of them do this

[01:04:36] I mean

[01:04:37] Michelle Yo was gonna do it

[01:04:38] I'm surprised

[01:04:39] the reason they would do it

[01:04:40] is because it's the matrix

[01:04:41] I think

[01:04:42] yeah just like a hot franchise

[01:04:43] but it's just like this is such

[01:04:44] an unnecessary character

[01:04:45] well this is where

[01:04:46] I start loving the movie

[01:04:47] and I think everyone else starts

[01:04:48] so they have a fight

[01:04:49] they have a martial arts fight

[01:04:50] they like say hello

[01:04:51] they're like hey how you doing

[01:04:52] I'm okay

[01:04:53] how's the weather

[01:04:54] not bad

[01:04:55] I'm sorry I have to do this

[01:04:56] but like five minute fight sequence

[01:04:58] and Neo's like

[01:04:59] I don't at this point know

[01:05:00] what the fuck is going on

[01:05:01] who this guy is

[01:05:02] why they're fighting

[01:05:03] and then Neo

[01:05:04] they stop and he's like great

[01:05:05] you are the one

[01:05:06] just needed to check basically

[01:05:07] like you don't really know

[01:05:08] someone until you fight them

[01:05:09] and then Neo

[01:05:10] speaking for the entire audience

[01:05:11] goes like who the fuck are you

[01:05:13] now

[01:05:14] and he goes like I protect

[01:05:15] she who is most important

[01:05:16] right

[01:05:17] and the door opens

[01:05:18] it's the fucking Oracle

[01:05:19] this is what I love about this movie

[01:05:20] this movie is about

[01:05:21] what it would be like

[01:05:22] to interact with

[01:05:23] literal computer programs

[01:05:25] that is why this is a master piece

[01:05:27] no other movie has done this

[01:05:29] or will ever do it again

[01:05:30] because it's crazy

[01:05:31] serif

[01:05:32] and if you look into it

[01:05:33] it's literally

[01:05:34] I'm gonna read

[01:05:35] he's like an ad blocker software

[01:05:36] he is a login screen

[01:05:37] that is literally

[01:05:38] he is

[01:05:39] the personification

[01:05:40] of what is called

[01:05:41] a challenge handshake

[01:05:42] authentication protocol

[01:05:43] which is basically

[01:05:44] a password

[01:05:45] I can't believe this

[01:05:46] is already working for me

[01:05:47] my judgment of the movie

[01:05:48] just went up 20%

[01:05:49] you might get me to think

[01:05:50] this is a master piece

[01:05:51] by the end of the episode

[01:05:52] I literally just went up

[01:05:53] 20%

[01:05:54] because in the movie

[01:05:56] you hear him say like

[01:05:57] you don't know someone

[01:05:58] until you fought them

[01:05:59] and like you'd think

[01:06:00] like that's actually

[01:06:01] the stupidest thing

[01:06:02] I ever heard

[01:06:03] yeah that's what I thought

[01:06:04] you have to remember

[01:06:05] he's not a person

[01:06:06] he's a computer program

[01:06:07] as is everyone

[01:06:08] he's a box asking

[01:06:09] you to type in a password

[01:06:10] and then we have

[01:06:11] what is

[01:06:12] fuck you're gonna convince me

[01:06:13] oh my god

[01:06:14] then serif leads him to

[01:06:15] leads him to the oracle

[01:06:17] played by

[01:06:18] played by gloria foster

[01:06:19] and like it seems

[01:06:20] sorry

[01:06:21] he leaves in the oracle

[01:06:22] like gloria foster

[01:06:23] in the one scene

[01:06:24] I think they got with her

[01:06:25] like a very long scene

[01:06:26] yes

[01:06:27] where she can still play

[01:06:28] the oracle

[01:06:29] I think she was pretty sick

[01:06:30] she died of I think

[01:06:31] of diabetes

[01:06:32] complications from diabetes

[01:06:33] which is sad

[01:06:34] yeah and I was gonna say

[01:06:35] that like

[01:06:36] I think I miss

[01:06:37] from her scene

[01:06:38] in the matrix

[01:06:39] oh in the matrix

[01:06:40] is that there's

[01:06:41] like a lot of business

[01:06:42] happening like I like

[01:06:43] that all this

[01:06:44] cooking and like you know

[01:06:46] smoking is like a second

[01:06:48] afterthought after

[01:06:49] like I'm smoking first

[01:06:50] I'm making cookies second

[01:06:52] and then I'm talking to her

[01:06:53] she's sitting on a bench

[01:06:54] and that may have been

[01:06:55] physically all that

[01:06:56] they could have got her to do

[01:06:57] so I can't hold it against

[01:06:58] I think that they were

[01:06:59] really limited

[01:07:00] I've heard stories about

[01:07:01] like she was still doing

[01:07:02] Broadway too

[01:07:03] and was like literally

[01:07:04] like a physical wreck

[01:07:05] you know

[01:07:06] like at the end of nights

[01:07:07] and stuff like that

[01:07:08] the only reason why I'm

[01:07:09] like you know

[01:07:10] sifting through

[01:07:11] the sand this much

[01:07:12] on this scene

[01:07:13] is like this nitpicky

[01:07:14] it's just because

[01:07:15] second most important scene

[01:07:16] in the movie

[01:07:17] and I love the Oracle

[01:07:18] and I love that performance

[01:07:19] so much that like

[01:07:20] I hate that this scene

[01:07:21] doesn't have the same

[01:07:22] juice that it does

[01:07:23] in the first movie

[01:07:24] but like even if it was

[01:07:25] just literally

[01:07:26] she's on the bench

[01:07:27] and she's like feeding

[01:07:28] pigeons more actively

[01:07:29] yeah do you know

[01:07:30] what I'm saying

[01:07:31] I miss the Oracle

[01:07:32] doing something else

[01:07:33] and having Neo be like

[01:07:35] over the shoulder

[01:07:36] you know

[01:07:37] now I would say

[01:07:38] this is the scene

[01:07:39] and I agree with

[01:07:40] what you're saying

[01:07:41] it's a good point

[01:07:42] it's too focused

[01:07:43] it's a too expositionary

[01:07:44] because it's an expositionary scene

[01:07:45] and it's a fair scene

[01:07:46] to kind of drop the movie

[01:07:47] if you haven't already

[01:07:48] dropped it

[01:07:49] because it's basically her

[01:07:50] saying

[01:07:51] if you really listen

[01:07:52] to her

[01:07:53] because what it sounds like

[01:07:54] is she's just saying

[01:07:55] a bunch of circular shit

[01:07:56] you know it's like

[01:07:57] the question is

[01:07:58] what is the question

[01:07:59] you know it's a lot of

[01:08:00] like the Spinks and Mystery Men

[01:08:01] you know to go left

[01:08:02] you must first go right

[01:08:03] sure

[01:08:04] but what she says

[01:08:05] is basically like

[01:08:06] if you haven't figured it

[01:08:07] out already and Neo has

[01:08:08] like I am a computer

[01:08:09] program that's what

[01:08:10] I am

[01:08:11] and you know I'm not some mystical

[01:08:12] seer or whatever

[01:08:13] I'm just built into the code

[01:08:14] of the matrix

[01:08:15] yeah

[01:08:16] and like I am as much a part

[01:08:17] of this as anyone else

[01:08:19] and like the prophecy

[01:08:21] that I deliver

[01:08:23] you know

[01:08:24] that's my purpose

[01:08:25] like that's what I'm here to do

[01:08:26] I'm not as special

[01:08:27] as you think I am

[01:08:28] right

[01:08:29] but at the same time I am

[01:08:30] and she's mostly

[01:08:31] trying to nudge him

[01:08:32] like you gotta figure

[01:08:33] this stuff out for yourself

[01:08:34] like I usually exist

[01:08:35] to just guide the one

[01:08:37] in a particular path

[01:08:38] but this time

[01:08:39] not so much

[01:08:40] I'm not special because

[01:08:41] I'm just doing what I was

[01:08:42] designed to do

[01:08:43] but I'm special because

[01:08:44] I've decided maybe to not

[01:08:46] and also I was

[01:08:47] designed explicitly

[01:08:48] to do this

[01:08:49] so I have a better sense

[01:08:50] of this than anyone else

[01:08:51] the point of the article

[01:08:52] is the architect

[01:08:53] explains more

[01:08:54] she was literally the program

[01:08:55] designed to make the matrix

[01:08:56] work because the architect

[01:08:57] like first built

[01:08:58] a paradise matrix

[01:08:59] that didn't work

[01:09:00] he says that

[01:09:01] like it was a perfect world

[01:09:02] and you guys rejected it

[01:09:03] then he made like a scary

[01:09:04] matrix that didn't work

[01:09:05] which is like where

[01:09:06] the mirror vengine

[01:09:07] and all those guys

[01:09:08] supposed to come from

[01:09:09] and then so he's like

[01:09:10] so we needed to create

[01:09:11] like a program that

[01:09:12] investigated

[01:09:13] you know

[01:09:14] what humans actually

[01:09:15] behave like

[01:09:16] which is why there is this

[01:09:17] eternal mother figure

[01:09:18] basically

[01:09:19] like that's what the article is

[01:09:20] you're making this sound

[01:09:21] so cool

[01:09:22] that's the problem

[01:09:23] with the movie

[01:09:24] and I will 100% admit it

[01:09:25] is like if you think about

[01:09:26] it enough

[01:09:27] the world's so great

[01:09:28] but the movie struggles

[01:09:29] to communicate this

[01:09:30] cause I wasn't having

[01:09:31] a lot of fun watching this

[01:09:32] and I get that

[01:09:33] I get it

[01:09:34] but basically

[01:09:35] you know the article

[01:09:36] is like I get that

[01:09:37] you're freaked out

[01:09:38] you've got the sight

[01:09:39] and you're seeing bad things

[01:09:40] and you know

[01:09:41] I can only do so much with that

[01:09:43] but you know

[01:09:44] like here I am

[01:09:46] like you can trust me

[01:09:49] or not trust me

[01:09:50] and then there's the

[01:09:52] burly brawl

[01:09:53] the fight with the 100 smiths

[01:09:54] yeah so here's what

[01:09:55] happened during this fight scene

[01:09:56] I ate a bag of pretzels

[01:09:57] cause I didn't give a shit

[01:09:59] it's so long

[01:10:00] I remember being like

[01:10:01] this is the hyped up thing

[01:10:02] I can't wait to see how

[01:10:03] this fight holds up

[01:10:04] huge part of the trailer

[01:10:05] huge part

[01:10:06] two punches in

[01:10:07] I was like let me get

[01:10:08] those pretzels out of my backpack

[01:10:09] and I just ate the whole bag

[01:10:10] and then it was

[01:10:11] I was done with the pretzels

[01:10:12] and the fight was still going on

[01:10:13] it is ambition defined

[01:10:15] this fight

[01:10:16] no doubt about it

[01:10:17] they're like let's try to make

[01:10:18] as big a fight as we can

[01:10:19] you know we should say

[01:10:20] concurrently to all this

[01:10:21] smith is back

[01:10:22] played by Hugo Waving

[01:10:23] right

[01:10:24] and he's cloning himself

[01:10:25] he'll like jam his fist

[01:10:26] into someone

[01:10:27] and make another smith

[01:10:28] they become a smith

[01:10:29] so he's turned into

[01:10:30] a virulent like thing

[01:10:31] he's turned into a computer

[01:10:32] virus basically

[01:10:33] and he's an outlaw now

[01:10:34] I mean he's not one of the

[01:10:35] agents

[01:10:36] he delivers his earpiece

[01:10:37] to Neo at the beginning

[01:10:38] and like so he

[01:10:40] his journey is parallel to Neo

[01:10:41] and he implies

[01:10:42] that we're tied together

[01:10:43] you know you're here to fix it

[01:10:44] and I'm here to ruin it

[01:10:45] basically

[01:10:46] I do think this is a good

[01:10:47] idea to have

[01:10:48] smith come back

[01:10:50] you know

[01:10:51] I think that

[01:10:52] it's one of the things

[01:10:53] that kind of trips up

[01:10:54] the logic of the movie

[01:10:55] at times because

[01:10:56] it's like

[01:10:57] the movie is so crucially

[01:10:58] about like Neo

[01:10:59] being a little different

[01:11:00] from all the other ones

[01:11:01] yeah

[01:11:02] and like it's like

[01:11:03] well then isn't smith too

[01:11:05] right and the parallel

[01:11:06] shadow thing that they

[01:11:07] try to like throw on to them

[01:11:08] in this one especially the next one

[01:11:10] it's kind of a Voldemort thing

[01:11:11] where it's like

[01:11:12] you're in me and I'm in you

[01:11:13] yeah

[01:11:14] it feels like simultaneously

[01:11:15] undercooked and forced

[01:11:17] yeah

[01:11:18] yeah

[01:11:19] and I also think it's like

[01:11:20] I understand it's like

[01:11:21] okay we hit gold in this

[01:11:22] first movie

[01:11:23] we wrote this part that could

[01:11:24] have just been like

[01:11:25] a fucking piece of stale bread

[01:11:26] as proven by how shitty

[01:11:27] the other agents are

[01:11:28] no I got it

[01:11:29] we need to bring you to go back

[01:11:30] right

[01:11:31] which is fair

[01:11:32] and like you know

[01:11:33] the movie needs a villain

[01:11:34] but I also

[01:11:35] and who are you going to have

[01:11:36] Neo beating him is so

[01:11:38] triumphant in the first movie

[01:11:39] totally

[01:11:40] and I understand that death

[01:11:41] is like a loose concept

[01:11:42] in this film

[01:11:43] and you and I had an argument

[01:11:44] yesterday about how much

[01:11:45] he's a computer programmer

[01:11:46] right like I hate dead characters

[01:11:47] coming back to life in movies

[01:11:48] I'm like really against that

[01:11:49] yeah

[01:11:50] but I also think in this movie

[01:11:51] like the whole point

[01:11:52] in the first movies that

[01:11:53] Neo dies and comes back to life

[01:11:54] yeah

[01:11:55] the fucking magics are playing

[01:11:56] fast and loose

[01:11:57] he's a bunch of programming

[01:11:58] I don't care

[01:11:59] but I also think like

[01:12:00] when he comes back

[01:12:01] it's a bit of like

[01:12:02] been there done that

[01:12:03] which leads them having

[01:12:04] to make a hundred agent

[01:12:05] because it's like okay

[01:12:06] how do you make agent Smith more

[01:12:07] so I mean

[01:12:08] I agree with you

[01:12:09] and that's why this

[01:12:10] the scene's a flop

[01:12:11] the action scene

[01:12:12] and there's this fundamental

[01:12:13] like

[01:12:15] self defeating thing

[01:12:17] in having agent Smith

[01:12:18] be the rogue agent

[01:12:19] because it's like

[01:12:20] well what we like about him

[01:12:22] is that he's so straight laced

[01:12:23] and so an onness

[01:12:24] and now if he's like

[01:12:25] the spurned guy

[01:12:26] and he's still like

[01:12:27] Mr. Anderson

[01:12:28] I think

[01:12:29] you made me get fired

[01:12:30] I don't have a job

[01:12:31] he's different

[01:12:32] he's different

[01:12:33] his voice is different

[01:12:34] and I think the idea is

[01:12:35] he's

[01:12:36] he's evolving

[01:12:37] if agent Smith showed up

[01:12:39] and he had a fucking beard

[01:12:40] and his tie was loosened

[01:12:42] and he was like

[01:12:43] Mr. Anderson

[01:12:44] I've been going through a rough time lately

[01:12:47] my wife left me

[01:12:48] you know I mean

[01:12:49] if it was like real rogue

[01:12:50] but it's like

[01:12:51] he's a little different

[01:12:52] but it does just feel like

[01:12:53] well you're trying to replicate the magic

[01:12:55] but we already have seen Neo beat him

[01:12:57] we already know the whole arc

[01:12:58] like

[01:12:59] I feel like

[01:13:00] if he wasn't in it

[01:13:01] I would have been bummed out

[01:13:02] that he wasn't in it

[01:13:03] and then when he's in it

[01:13:04] I'm like

[01:13:05] I wish they could have found something new

[01:13:06] well they blow it with this scene

[01:13:07] we gotta move forward

[01:13:08] so like

[01:13:09] it's an action scene

[01:13:10] like we said

[01:13:11] they just don't have the technology for it

[01:13:12] and it just sort of turns into CGI

[01:13:13] very obvious

[01:13:14] they have Neo wearing a cassock

[01:13:16] like a floor length cape

[01:13:18] which is hard to animate

[01:13:20] you know like hard to make that look real

[01:13:22] and then after a ten minute fight

[01:13:25] the ending is that he flies away

[01:13:26] like he doesn't even beat anybody

[01:13:28] like is this longer than the

[01:13:30] Roddy Roddy Piper fight

[01:13:31] and they live

[01:13:32] it might be

[01:13:33] I think so

[01:13:34] I think so

[01:13:35] I'll say I'll give this fight scene like a two

[01:13:37] it'd been like that

[01:13:38] two out of ten

[01:13:39] I give it two out of ten

[01:13:40] I give the pretzels like a seven

[01:13:41] I kept in my backpack for a while

[01:13:43] so they were a little like smushed

[01:13:44] like a

[01:13:45] I like a full pretzel rather than a fragment

[01:13:46] but they taste pretty good

[01:13:47] they're seven

[01:13:48] handovers

[01:13:49] then the next episode of this movie

[01:13:51] is that they go to the Maro Vingian

[01:13:53] who is

[01:13:54] the Oracle size

[01:13:55] you have to go to the Maro Vingian

[01:13:57] and get the key maker

[01:13:58] he's like a

[01:13:59] he's being held prisoner

[01:14:00] and he's like a program that can get you anywhere

[01:14:02] and he'll get you to the source

[01:14:03] which is like where you can fix the matrix

[01:14:05] Can I sidebar for a second?

[01:14:06] Sure

[01:14:07] My mom is French

[01:14:08] she was raised

[01:14:09] French in France

[01:14:10] French culture is very important to her

[01:14:12] she

[01:14:13] growing up was constantly trying to get me

[01:14:14] to get invested

[01:14:15] in like a French heritage

[01:14:17] and French art

[01:14:18] and whatever it was

[01:14:19] the fact that I don't speak

[01:14:20] is like her biggest shame

[01:14:21] in her life

[01:14:22] You talked about this

[01:14:23] Right

[01:14:24] so she was not a huge fan

[01:14:25] of like mainstream American cinema

[01:14:27] whenever there was any like big studio film

[01:14:30] that had any element of like French culture in it

[01:14:32] I would like run back to tell my mom

[01:14:34] to sell her as like

[01:14:35] we could bond over this thing

[01:14:36] Okay so you told her about the fact

[01:14:37] that there's a French person called the Maro Vingian

[01:14:39] I was like so amped that I was like

[01:14:41] Mom the matrix has two French characters in it

[01:14:44] you got two French actors doing French shit

[01:14:46] and like at that time

[01:14:47] I was just

[01:14:48] Like by Lambert Wilson

[01:14:49] I convinced myself that my mom

[01:14:50] would have loved it

[01:14:51] because of these French characters

[01:14:52] But she didn't even see it

[01:14:53] She didn't even see it

[01:14:54] and then I watched it today

[01:14:55] I was like these are the most insulting

[01:14:56] French characters

[01:14:57] I mean if they were Italian

[01:14:58] they would be wearing Chef Boyardee hats

[01:15:00] They're like Pepe La Pew level

[01:15:02] He is especially

[01:15:03] She is more

[01:15:04] Monica Baluchy plays Persephone

[01:15:05] who's like his wife

[01:15:06] She's more of just like a sex pot

[01:15:08] Like we talked about that in Bound 2

[01:15:09] Like she's just there to be sexy

[01:15:11] There's the part where he says

[01:15:12] like I love cursing in French

[01:15:14] and then he literally just says

[01:15:15] like the French equivalent of like

[01:15:16] Fuck shit, dick hot, butthole

[01:15:18] Like he does like

[01:15:20] But doesn't like this French

[01:15:21] like oh zut ala meh de

[01:15:23] The Maro Vingians are like

[01:15:24] an ancient dynasty in France

[01:15:26] from like the 5th century

[01:15:27] Like a long time ago

[01:15:28] and that's the idea of the Maro Vingian

[01:15:30] in the movie is he's like an old

[01:15:31] he's like a beta program

[01:15:32] Okay so is that

[01:15:34] I need you to give me these analogs

[01:15:36] So he's just supposed to be like

[01:15:37] MS Dose or whatever

[01:15:38] He's from the second matrix

[01:15:40] It's never made totally clear

[01:15:42] even in the expanded world of the matrix

[01:15:43] but he's from the second matrix

[01:15:45] he is from the matrix that was

[01:15:47] full of monsters

[01:15:48] The matrix that was like some sort of

[01:15:49] nightmarish fantasy world

[01:15:51] Now there were two of them

[01:15:52] And he was exiled but not deleted

[01:15:53] and he like maintains exile

[01:15:55] which is like where programs run away

[01:15:57] to not be deleted when they are replaced

[01:15:59] or overwritten or whatever

[01:16:01] Now I understand that he's a program

[01:16:02] but there were times

[01:16:03] They're all programs

[01:16:04] Right, yes

[01:16:05] 80% of the characters in this movie

[01:16:07] There were times within

[01:16:09] this chunk of the movie

[01:16:10] where the way they were talking

[01:16:11] about him

[01:16:12] Yeah

[01:16:13] Made it seem like he was

[01:16:14] some sort of proto one

[01:16:16] No, yeah

[01:16:17] That makes me

[01:16:18] Do you understand what I'm saying?

[01:16:19] Yeah I do

[01:16:20] They said like

[01:16:21] I mean Monica Bellucci keeps on saying

[01:16:22] like you remind me of him

[01:16:23] he was like you before this and that

[01:16:25] You know he went rogue

[01:16:26] I mean this sort of stuff

[01:16:27] I think that's all fair

[01:16:28] That's all fair

[01:16:29] that maybe was some sort of

[01:16:30] leader figure

[01:16:31] Benedict Arnold of the programs

[01:16:33] Yeah

[01:16:34] I mean he existed before the matrix

[01:16:35] had the glitch that leads to the one

[01:16:37] because the matrix had literally

[01:16:38] the matrix that we know in these

[01:16:40] movies had not been invented yet

[01:16:41] Yeah

[01:16:42] So anyway

[01:16:43] Yeah

[01:16:44] So all his companions are

[01:16:45] monsters

[01:16:46] Like the twins

[01:16:47] these weird albinos

[01:16:48] Our ghosts

[01:16:49] They've got these two

[01:16:51] people who are supposed to be

[01:16:52] werewolves because Persephone

[01:16:53] executes one of them with like

[01:16:55] a silver bullet in the head

[01:16:57] I thought they were vampires

[01:16:58] Vampires werewolves whatever

[01:16:59] Yeah cause it's the vampire movie

[01:17:00] on the TV behind them

[01:17:01] You know whatever

[01:17:02] And then there's a dude with a

[01:17:03] weird beard and he's a vampire

[01:17:04] The Oracle explains this to

[01:17:06] Nia where she's like

[01:17:07] anytime you've heard about

[01:17:09] monsters or aliens or whatever

[01:17:10] that's like old pieces

[01:17:12] of the matrix

[01:17:13] old programs that won't go away

[01:17:14] Yeah

[01:17:15] That's like just them

[01:17:16] freaking people out

[01:17:17] Yeah which is a cool concept

[01:17:18] It's a good idea

[01:17:19] I almost wish that was

[01:17:20] just a whole movie

[01:17:21] I wish

[01:17:22] Like this speaks to the idea

[01:17:23] of rather making it like

[01:17:24] Oh the three part matrix

[01:17:25] like trilogy

[01:17:26] I want like seven matrix movies

[01:17:28] and matrix six is like

[01:17:29] Matrix

[01:17:30] colon monster wars

[01:17:32] You know

[01:17:33] Yeah no I do

[01:17:34] So I would say

[01:17:35] this is the worst part of the

[01:17:36] movie I would say

[01:17:37] Yeah

[01:17:38] The Merovingian speech

[01:17:39] he is

[01:17:40] I was trying to explain to

[01:17:41] Ben

[01:17:42] I think he's supposed to

[01:17:43] represent causality

[01:17:44] Which is like

[01:17:45] you know cause he keeps

[01:17:46] talking about cause and

[01:17:47] effect

[01:17:48] Which is like

[01:17:49] a simple piece of computer

[01:17:50] programming

[01:17:51] It's like if X then what

[01:17:52] Technically he's talking about

[01:17:53] cause and effect

[01:17:54] Like it's the most

[01:17:55] overstated French accent

[01:17:56] from a real French person

[01:17:57] He's a real French actor

[01:17:58] There is this stupidest

[01:17:59] shit monologue he gives

[01:18:00] about like

[01:18:01] the cake over there

[01:18:02] is an orgasm cake

[01:18:03] and she eats the cake

[01:18:04] and has an orgasm

[01:18:05] I watched this two hours

[01:18:06] ago and I already forgot

[01:18:08] So if you haven't

[01:18:09] dropped the movie

[01:18:10] at the point of the club

[01:18:11] scene or the

[01:18:12] Oracle or the burly brawl

[01:18:13] or whatever then

[01:18:14] you're dropping it now

[01:18:15] But they literally

[01:18:16] he's explaining how

[01:18:17] he programmed the cake

[01:18:18] that the woman's eating

[01:18:19] They give you a close up shot

[01:18:20] of her like perfect red lips

[01:18:22] as the cake goes in

[01:18:23] you see the code

[01:18:24] and as if it isn't obvious

[01:18:26] enough we go into like

[01:18:27] matrix vision with like

[01:18:29] the digital rain

[01:18:30] and then the camera zooms

[01:18:31] in between her legs

[01:18:32] Digital vagina

[01:18:33] Yeah and there's like

[01:18:34] a big bang in her

[01:18:35] It's dumb

[01:18:36] In her genitals

[01:18:37] Now can I just do

[01:18:38] a quick punch up?

[01:18:39] Yeah, yes please

[01:18:40] Okay, I would have loved

[01:18:41] for the camera to have

[01:18:42] panned over to an older

[01:18:43] woman at the restaurant

[01:18:44] and she go

[01:18:45] I'll have what she's got

[01:18:46] Oh boy no

[01:18:48] Terrific

[01:18:50] Best in the biz

[01:18:51] Best in the biz

[01:18:54] All right

[01:18:55] That was a great joke

[01:18:56] Ben 10 comedy points

[01:18:57] Oh thank you

[01:18:58] So this scene is

[01:19:00] supposed to be informing

[01:19:01] what's coming later

[01:19:02] which is the mayor of

[01:19:03] Vingina saying like

[01:19:04] we all have our place

[01:19:05] Yeah

[01:19:06] We all serve a purpose

[01:19:07] And like your purpose

[01:19:08] is just to do one thing

[01:19:09] You know

[01:19:10] And then

[01:19:11] you're like

[01:19:12] I'm like

[01:19:13] I'm like

[01:19:14] My purpose is just to do

[01:19:15] one thing

[01:19:16] You know

[01:19:17] And like that's the whole

[01:19:18] idea of the one

[01:19:19] you fulfill the prophecy

[01:19:20] and as we later learn

[01:19:21] like his whole point

[01:19:22] is to reset the matrix

[01:19:23] Right

[01:19:24] And then the mayor of

[01:19:25] Vingina goes to the

[01:19:26] bathroom and gets a blow

[01:19:27] job

[01:19:28] Yes he does

[01:19:29] And Persephone

[01:19:30] who makes no sense

[01:19:31] even in my wonderfully

[01:19:32] thought out

[01:19:33] computer logic

[01:19:34] of this movie

[01:19:35] What is she supposed

[01:19:36] to be?

[01:19:37] I don't know

[01:19:38] I mean like

[01:19:39] she's called Persephone

[01:19:40] who is like

[01:19:41] in Greek mythology

[01:19:42] like the sort of

[01:19:43] who asks Neo to kiss her

[01:19:44] and like

[01:19:45] he's got to do it right

[01:19:46] you know

[01:19:47] It's sort of like

[01:19:48] a crappier version

[01:19:49] of the Seraph thing

[01:19:50] like if it's another

[01:19:51] login screen

[01:19:52] like it's stupid

[01:19:53] Or because she's like

[01:19:54] the violet to his

[01:19:55] Caesar in a way

[01:19:56] Yeah

[01:19:57] Like she's like

[01:19:58] the trapped like

[01:19:59] gangsters mall

[01:20:00] Right

[01:20:01] I also remember

[01:20:02] she was

[01:20:03] it was so hyped up

[01:20:04] that she was in this

[01:20:05] Monica Ballucci was like

[01:20:06] really hot shit that year

[01:20:07] like it was like

[01:20:08] she'd been in some

[01:20:09] movies and it was just

[01:20:10] like she was

[01:20:11] Malina had come out

[01:20:12] like the queens of like

[01:20:13] the kind of Lad mag

[01:20:14] you know the sort of

[01:20:15] FHM type Maxim

[01:20:16] you know like

[01:20:17] One of the best looking

[01:20:18] people in history

[01:20:19] Gorgeous person

[01:20:20] Gorgeous

[01:20:21] She's marriage of Vincent

[01:20:22] Cassel who's like a

[01:20:23] fucking badass

[01:20:24] and they're like

[01:20:25] Not only a fucking badass

[01:20:26] but a little weasel

[01:20:27] of a man

[01:20:28] Like it's a crazy

[01:20:29] I'm not talking in terms

[01:20:30] of like

[01:20:31] Equal physical

[01:20:32] Traffordness

[01:20:33] But they were like

[01:20:34] France's like

[01:20:35] Brangelina

[01:20:36] like they were the couple

[01:20:37] that France was obsessed with

[01:20:38] So anyway

[01:20:39] she barely in the movie

[01:20:40] You know

[01:20:41] Let's move past it

[01:20:42] They make out in a bathroom

[01:20:43] and Trini gets really upset

[01:20:44] Trini gets grumpy

[01:20:45] The whole thing is like

[01:20:46] dumb and gendered

[01:20:47] The coldest grumpy you've ever seen

[01:20:48] She's

[01:20:49] Hey, Carrie Amos is kicking ass

[01:20:50] with the little material she has

[01:20:52] But just the way she plays

[01:20:53] the scene

[01:20:54] I think she's doing what was

[01:20:55] asked of her perfectly

[01:20:56] The way the scene is written is

[01:20:57] Oh no I hate this

[01:20:59] So Persephone

[01:21:00] I guess

[01:21:01] frees the keymaker

[01:21:02] for them

[01:21:03] The whole thing's

[01:21:04] like it's underwritten

[01:21:05] Keymaker is the best

[01:21:06] character in the entire

[01:21:07] Yeah played by Randall Duck Kim

[01:21:08] My favorite performance

[01:21:09] My favorite character

[01:21:10] Goose in Kung Fu Panda

[01:21:12] Randall Duck Kim

[01:21:13] Or no he's the voice of the old

[01:21:14] Dragon Man

[01:21:15] The old

[01:21:16] He's the turtle

[01:21:17] That's right

[01:21:18] It's the other old

[01:21:19] a resuscitation actor

[01:21:20] What's his name?

[01:21:21] Yeah but the one who does

[01:21:22] more comedies

[01:21:23] Yeah I think his name is Randall

[01:21:24] also it's Randall something

[01:21:25] I think

[01:21:26] Anyway

[01:21:27] So she frees the keymaker

[01:21:29] and there's a whole

[01:21:30] another action sequence

[01:21:31] that's pretty cool

[01:21:32] because it's a little more

[01:21:33] low scale

[01:21:34] of Neo fighting

[01:21:35] like the Maravinians

[01:21:36] Stooges

[01:21:37] And also I got

[01:21:38] With all these like medieval

[01:21:39] that's nice

[01:21:40] I gotta say the second

[01:21:41] the keymaker

[01:21:42] I keep on calling the keymaker

[01:21:43] The second the keymaker

[01:21:44] comes into the film

[01:21:45] I'm more invested in all

[01:21:46] the action scenes

[01:21:47] because there's someone

[01:21:48] vulnerable in the middle

[01:21:49] of all of them

[01:21:50] Yeah and sometimes

[01:21:51] it's almost a little too much

[01:21:52] because they'll like pan over

[01:21:53] to the keymaker

[01:21:54] just sort of sitting there

[01:21:55] while mayhem is

[01:21:56] happening around

[01:21:57] It's like how is this

[01:21:58] probably even alive

[01:21:59] And he's like a feeble old man

[01:22:00] He is

[01:22:01] like a backdoor like

[01:22:02] root kit

[01:22:03] Like I don't know how

[01:22:04] else to describe him

[01:22:05] He's just like the guy

[01:22:06] who kind of gets you

[01:22:07] through the computer system

[01:22:08] quickly

[01:22:09] He knows the passwords

[01:22:10] It's like I mean he's

[01:22:11] That's what all the keys are

[01:22:12] I like that's literally

[01:22:13] he's got a ton of keys

[01:22:14] Yeah so they have to get him

[01:22:16] Ben's nodding in agreement

[01:22:17] Ben likes that

[01:22:18] They have to get him to like

[01:22:20] First they have to get him

[01:22:22] out of wherever the Maravinian is

[01:22:24] and across a highway

[01:22:25] which is like seen as like

[01:22:27] that you're very vulnerable

[01:22:28] because there's no phones

[01:22:29] and like you can't

[01:22:30] get to a landline

[01:22:32] to plug back into the real world

[01:22:33] That's the best scene in the movie

[01:22:34] and I just want to point out

[01:22:35] for one second

[01:22:36] It's an insane action sequence

[01:22:37] They built like a whole highway

[01:22:38] to make it

[01:22:39] It's completely bonkers

[01:22:40] I want to point out that

[01:22:41] we completely skipped over

[01:22:42] the big action scene

[01:22:43] that takes place at the Maravinian's house

[01:22:45] because it has like

[01:22:46] no bearing on anything

[01:22:47] No it's just a fight

[01:22:48] It's a well done fight

[01:22:49] The Matrix does it a little bit too

[01:22:51] where they're like

[01:22:52] well now we'll have a cool action fight

[01:22:53] but it's all better grounded

[01:22:55] And the biggest difference is

[01:22:56] in all those fights

[01:22:57] Neo hasn't become the one yet

[01:22:58] so you're like

[01:22:59] How's he gonna

[01:23:00] angst to it

[01:23:01] and at this it's like

[01:23:02] Well Neo just

[01:23:03] Watch him kick ass

[01:23:04] There is the moment

[01:23:05] in the fight where he bleeds

[01:23:06] and he hits with a knife

[01:23:07] and he bleeds

[01:23:08] and they're like see he's still human

[01:23:09] but you know whatever

[01:23:10] That fight's really well constructed

[01:23:11] so it's a little engaging

[01:23:12] but within the film

[01:23:13] it just fucking means nothing

[01:23:14] And then we're

[01:23:15] lead right into another action sequence

[01:23:17] now we've got the two twins

[01:23:18] who are these white albino ghosts

[01:23:20] who say things like

[01:23:21] They're very angry aren't we

[01:23:22] You know it's

[01:23:23] it's crappy

[01:23:24] They were discovered from

[01:23:25] like an Australian

[01:23:26] like home improvement show

[01:23:27] Yeah I mean

[01:23:28] I think the Wachowskis

[01:23:29] were just like

[01:23:30] we need

[01:23:31] Australian twins

[01:23:32] We need two twins

[01:23:33] who can do martial arts

[01:23:34] and it's like

[01:23:35] two people

[01:23:36] But I think they were on TV

[01:23:37] doing like a

[01:23:38] like a this old house type of thing

[01:23:40] Oh okay

[01:23:41] I'm sorry

[01:23:42] No I thought

[01:23:43] I was gonna make a really dumb joke

[01:23:44] You were gonna make a Tim Allen

[01:23:45] Yeah I was gonna say

[01:23:46] were there two twin Tim Taylor

[01:23:48] Yeah grunt grunt grunt

[01:23:50] No I think they did

[01:23:51] like they were not actors

[01:23:52] but they were like

[01:23:53] television personalities

[01:23:54] who did like

[01:23:55] home renovation

[01:23:56] instructional shows

[01:23:57] Okay

[01:23:58] and he was just like

[01:23:59] well these guys look the same

[01:24:00] I mean I barely know anything about them

[01:24:02] They're quite annoying characters

[01:24:03] because they're invulnerable

[01:24:04] they can just turn into ghosts

[01:24:05] They look cool

[01:24:06] They look okay

[01:24:07] I think they look pretty crappy

[01:24:08] when they turn into ghosts

[01:24:09] The ghosts look terrible

[01:24:10] Yeah ghosts look really bad

[01:24:11] weird CGI

[01:24:12] kind of like

[01:24:13] But I like the design

[01:24:14] when they're in their physical form

[01:24:15] Yeah me too

[01:24:16] You know the movie

[01:24:17] For all its problems

[01:24:18] the movie is still

[01:24:19] incredibly well designed

[01:24:20] Yeah good design

[01:24:21] So

[01:24:24] They have this

[01:24:25] and again let's sort of move past it

[01:24:26] we agree it's good

[01:24:27] It's really good

[01:24:28] It's very technically proficient

[01:24:29] freeway chase

[01:24:30] with agents

[01:24:31] with the Maravindians men

[01:24:33] and you're just

[01:24:34] you know you're trying to get the

[01:24:35] keymaker across

[01:24:36] and that's

[01:24:37] The keymaker gives attention

[01:24:38] that I think the movie's lacked

[01:24:39] until that point

[01:24:40] I think that's a fair point

[01:24:41] you know Trinity is on a bike

[01:24:42] and Morpheus has a samurai sword

[01:24:43] like there's a lot of different elements

[01:24:45] at play that you can cut between

[01:24:46] that are cool

[01:24:47] and the CGI never looks bad

[01:24:48] unlike in the other

[01:24:49] you know

[01:24:50] Yeah

[01:24:51] other scene

[01:24:52] But I like it's so simple

[01:24:53] You got the keymaker

[01:24:54] it's like okay this is precious

[01:24:55] we could lose him

[01:24:56] They need to get to a door

[01:24:57] the only way they can get

[01:24:58] through that door is with the keymaker

[01:24:59] the keymaker cannot fight

[01:25:01] Right not at all

[01:25:02] So not only are they trying to get through

[01:25:04] but they also have to make sure

[01:25:05] like they have to fight for themselves

[01:25:07] and for him

[01:25:08] Yeah

[01:25:09] I like this a lot

[01:25:10] so they get to the Nebuchadnezzar

[01:25:12] and they do whatever they need to do

[01:25:15] and Jesus

[01:25:16] and then there's another

[01:25:17] crazy action scene

[01:25:18] where they have to like break into

[01:25:20] a power plant

[01:25:21] and like blow it up

[01:25:23] so they can like

[01:25:24] bring down the walls of the sources

[01:25:26] like force fields