The Piano with Esther Zuckerman

[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin and David The voice you hear is not my speaking voice, but my mind's voice. I have not spoken since I was six years old. No one knows why, not even me.

[00:00:31] My father says it is a dark talent, and the day I take it into my head, to stop breathing will be my last. Today he married me to a man I have not yet met. Soon my daughter and I shall join him in his country.

[00:00:44] My husband writes that my muteness does not bother him, and hawk this. He says God loves dumb creatures, so why not I? It's for good he had God's patience, for silence affects everyone in the end. The strange thing is, I don't think myself silent.

[00:00:59] That is because of my podcast. I shall miss it on the journey. This is what I was facing. In the last moment, I went, I gotta pick one. I either try to do Holly Hunter's pitch or I try to do the New Zealand accent.

[00:01:16] Well, she's doing it's a Scottish accent. It's not a New Zealand accent. Oh, you're right. Yeah. So then in that case, I fucked up on both counts. You did. You did. I mean, not that you were going to nail the Scottish accent.

[00:01:26] Not that Holly Hunter really nails the Scottish accent. Well, we got to do a take two. No, we're not doing a take two. No, that was good. That was good. That was actually good. And it was actually kind of compelling.

[00:01:34] The voice you hear is not my speaking voice, but my mind's voice. Oh, Hagrid's here all of a sudden? I've not spoken since I was six years old. No one knows why, not even me.

[00:01:41] Now I'm thinking about her having like a podcast on the beach and being like... I have to keep on going back to my podcast studio. I'll trade you for... I don't know. My father says it is his dark talent. All right, enough, enough, enough.

[00:01:53] The day I take it into my head to stop breathing will be my last. Okay. I'm going to tell you about The King's Daughter. Today you better do it. No. The King's Daughter is a film that's coming out this week. Next week, sorry. Wait, what?

[00:02:06] It's a film that's coming out next week in cinemas in the United States. Griffin stop it. I swear to God, you can't do it twice. Listen to this, Griffin. It stars Pierce Brosnan. Oh yes, I know about this. Oh, you know about this. This is starring... Kaya Scoladero.

[00:02:24] Kaya Scoladero. It's directed by Sean McNamara, who's the director of The Bratz movie. And other children's entertainment. Robo Sapien. Right. He's got part of Crystal Sky, which has that weird relationship to John Boyd. This was shot... He's sort of like a right wing guy.

[00:02:36] I will tell you when it was shot. Well, first the film was developed in the 90s and was going to be shot in 2002 with Natalie Portman. James Shamus, friend of the show, is credited. As a writer? He wrote the script. Wow. It finally was made in 2013, right?

[00:02:54] Starring all the people we just mentioned. Production wrapped in 2014. It has not been released. Well, it's coming out. It will be out by the time this episode is released? Correct. It is coming out in 2022. A film that was finished eight years ago. This got added...

[00:03:09] About Louis XVI and like a mermaid or something? Or Louis XIV, sorry. This got thrown out on the blank check subreddit. Shout out to our slash blankies. Because the poster looked like a fake movie poster. It's Kaya Scodelario and her husband, Benjamin Walker. This is the set.

[00:03:25] They just had a baby. Oh, they met on the set of this movie? I believe they now maybe had two babies and this is the movie they met on. Oh, they met on this movie? That's the wild thing about this film. This movie was so long ago.

[00:03:35] That they like... This is where they met. Their kids are in college or whatever. I want to read you the credit block too. Pierce Brosnan, Kaya Scodelario, Benjamin Walker, Rachel Griffiths, narrated by Julie Andrews. Right. Bing Bing Fan and William Hurt.

[00:03:54] Narrated by in the credit block before your end. Yeah, that's some slippery shit. Yeah. There they are. Anyway. Should we go see it? Yeah, absolutely. He says God loves dumb creatures so why not? That's not a Scottish... You're just doing Hagrid right now. I'm not. You are.

[00:04:12] Is he doing Hagrid more than... The movie. Sure, okay. It's a little bit of Hagrid, a little bit of Fat Bastard. How do I... I used to be able to do Fat Bastard. I'm forgetting. I no longer hear Fat Bastard's voice ringing in my head.

[00:04:26] He doesn't come to you when you sleep? Come on, what are you... I am a baby. What else does Fat Bastard do? I'm a... America was just like... Sorry. I'm flattered. Comedy of the year. This is it. Yeah. Fat Bastard, man. What a guy.

[00:04:47] I'm sorry that I mentioned that because I'm genuinely upset we're talking about Fat Bastard on a podcast. The eighth joke about him is that he's fat. There are so many other bits before that. That was why it was so perplexing in that film.

[00:05:02] It was like, wait, the guy eats babies? He's Scottish? He has bagpipes? What... He steals the mojo because he was part of the guard to watch over Austin Powers' frozen body but at the end of the movie he pretends to be a UPS guy.

[00:05:17] He's got a lot of... There's a whole nut shot bit where he gets kicked in the nuts. There's also a big poop bit. Well, Austin drinks his poop and says it's a little bit nutty. A little bit nutty. He drinks his coffee. Felicity Shagwell seduces him and sticks...

[00:05:32] Sticks a toming device in him. Right, up his butthole. And then of course in Goldmember he has an extended sumo sequence. He does martial arts or whatever, right, sumo. I maybe told this story before. It's like wire work though.

[00:05:45] There's like a Crouching Tiger spoof where he's doing a kick and he's flying across the room. Sure, the bit I remember very vividly is he says to his opponent, you know what's my favorite Helen Hunt movie? Twister! And then he does a purple nurple. Sure.

[00:06:02] I think I've told this story before but my sister Romlee Newman, long time sibling of mine, past and future guest, she was five when that movie came out. The Spidey Shagmy or Goldmember? Goldmember. And I went to go see it and my dad was just like,

[00:06:20] we'll take Rom. And Rom was like, she's five. And he was like, there's nothing in that she hasn't heard before. I was like, in the third Austin Power movie, there's nothing a five year old... The first ten minutes has like ten things she's never heard before.

[00:06:34] So the last bit of that movie pretty much is they go to the premiere of Austin Pussy, right? Which is the movie within the movie. Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise is Austin Powers. At the end, you realize, oh we're back in the fake movie

[00:06:48] in which now John Travolta is playing Goldmember, right? And like celebratory vibes, premieres are resounding success, everyone's applauding. And then a guy walks up to Austin and goes like, hey Austin! Austin Powers! He's like, I'm sorry I don't recognize you.

[00:07:02] And it's Fat Bastard and he's lost all the weight. Yeah. And he's got all the sagging flesh. And he credits Jared Fogle. Yes, of course. Not for the diet, for advising me on my personal life. But he says, Austin's like, you look great!

[00:07:17] And he's like, wow yeah, but my neck looks like a vagina! And then he like, plays with the waddle under his neck. Right, right, right. Romilly would not stop saying that as a five year old. And like, my parents' friends would come over for dinner

[00:07:32] and she'd be like, my neck looks like a vagina! She thought it was the funniest thing in the world. Anyway, it's nothing that a five year old hadn't heard before. Hello everybody, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David.

[00:07:47] It's a podcast about Fat Bastard and the King's Daughter. A movie that's set on a shelf for eight years. Eight years! That's just a long time. That's Margaret-length. You think it's as good as Margaret? How great would that be? It's two human children who were born in the...

[00:08:02] How great would that be if everyone shit on it and then two people were like, this might be the great American movie of the decade. It goes out of theaters and then it comes back and there's a Save King's Daughter campaign.

[00:08:15] And then McNamara does a screening at Lincoln Center and he's like, at a Q&A but he can't answer most questions because of an ongoing legal battle with the producers. McNamara currently I believe making the Reagan movie starring Dennis Quaid, part of the Quaid-a-Sants.

[00:08:29] Or is it the Den-a-Sants? I always forget which it is. I think it's the Den-a-Sants. It's the Den-a-Sants, I'm sorry. The Quaid-ening? The re-Quaid-ening? McNamara's weird. That's a weird rabbit hole. The Crystal Sky, the McNamara family, Jon Voight's participation in most of those movies.

[00:08:44] McNamara also directed the Baby Geniuses sequels, I want to say? Yeah, he did Baby Geniuses in The Mystery of the Crown Jewels, Baby Geniuses in The Treasures of Egypt, and Baby Geniuses in The Space Baby. RoboSapie did Soul Surfer, the movie where...

[00:09:01] He did Cats and Dogs 3, Paws Unite. Oh my god, he did adaptations of my beloved Bruce Covill Alien books that were straight to Netflix and everyone said were horrible. Yeah. Like Aliens At My Homework, those are some of my favorite books ever,

[00:09:18] they were huge for me as a kid. David, those are some of my favorite books as well. Wow! Because you had a bad attitude and you were always saying Aliens At Your Homework, probably, right? No, I don't know. They rule those books. Those books are fucking the best.

[00:09:30] Aliens At My Homework. Remind me what is the series though, I can't remember. Aliens At My Homework, I left my sneakers in Dimension X. Hell yeah. The Search for Snout. That's my favorite dimension. X, go. That's the whole thing, Dimension X is super,

[00:09:42] and he left his sneakers there. He left them. And then, what was the fourth? Aliens Stole My Body, I think was the last one. Sure, sure. It's very space opera, it's serious. Did you ever read the Bruce Covill books? No. Fine.

[00:09:56] I read them, I don't remember them very well. He also had the other series that was like My Teacher Is An Alien, My Teacher Flunked The Planet, remember that? I was scared of aliens as a kid. There was Bailey's School Kids, is that what it was called?

[00:10:07] That was also Bruce Covill. Where every book was like, Dracula doesn't perform root canals. And the premise of the book would be like, there's a new dentist in town, he looks a lot like Dracula, and the kids start collecting evidence of like, I saw him drinking something red!

[00:10:23] He sleeps in a box! And in the last chapter they find out everything was a misunderstanding. But every time it's like, Troll Bridges don't coach fucking dodgeball. This was not, I know what you're talking about, but it was not Bruce Covill,

[00:10:38] I just want to clarify, it was someone else. I just thought that was so cool. Vampires don't wear polka dots, werewolves don't go to summer camp. There's like 80 of those books and they start getting so sweaty and they're just like... The Yeti doesn't do driver's tests.

[00:10:50] I know we're here to talk about her most important film, but I just wanted to say two things about Bruce Covill's alien books. One, okay, Gracker, if you remember, one of the lead aliens. We all remember Gracker. Fuck you. Fuck you! There's a moment early on...

[00:11:05] Jesus Christ, David! There's a moment early on in the first one where they go to like a swamp or like a marsh or something that's in his backyard and Gracker's like, oh this reminds me of my home. And Rod is like,

[00:11:18] oh do you come from a swamp planet? And he's like, what? No, I come from a planet. I lived in a swamp. And Rod's like, right, planets aren't just one. You talk about just one terrain. It's my most crucial memory.

[00:11:30] I like this pushback on the Lucasification of sci-fi. A whole planet is a swamp? Seasonally, the entire planet is one climate, one season all the time. Right. The other thing is that the villain in the aliens books, BKR, is scary. And Rod's like, why is he so bad?

[00:11:49] And they're like, because he does things just to make people unhappy. This is him actually right now driving down the street. He's just unkind. Fucking badass on a crossroad. Yeah, anyway. I always thought about that. Like he doesn't do it for money or whatever. He's just like,

[00:12:05] he's a mean guy. He just kind of wants to watch the world burn? Exactly. Anyway, those books were horrible. How did we get on? Oh right, Charmander. Anyway. For once you can't complain about my fucking side tangent because you've just been saying for the last ten minutes

[00:12:19] we're going to start the episode talking about you didn't even want me to get the quote out once. Well there's a reason. Because you want to talk about the fucking king's daughter. No, because I knew you were going to do Hagrid.

[00:12:29] I knew you were going to Hagrid it up. The movie. The Pianer. This movie is called The Pianer. This podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. I'm really struggling to do another tangent about Hagrid doing the movie

[00:12:44] like this year at the Oscars. Let me get the fucking rest of the intro out and then I'm obviously going to let you do the tangent. It's a podcast about filmography. It's directors who have massive success early on in their career

[00:12:53] and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. This is a miniseries on the films of Jane Campion. We finally got to the titular film of the miniseries because the miniseries is called Podcastiano.

[00:13:07] And the movie we're talking about today is obviously called The Pianer. You don't like it? What? The Podcastiano. The Podcastiano! What do you want it to be called? In the podcast? It's deranged. Power of the podcast? Yeah, that's better. That's what you think? Basic.

[00:13:23] What if it's just Hagrid comes out this year and he's like, the movie! He just does the exact same monologue. That's what they should do. People complain we don't have movie stars anymore. It's all IP. The star is the IP.

[00:13:38] And they're trying to figure out how to get young people back into the Oscars. Tom Holland should host the Oscars. Zendaya should host the Oscars. Everyone should be a character. It should be like the Space Jam new legacy of Oscar hosts. Right, IP.

[00:13:52] Tom Holland should not host the Oscars. Spider-Man maybe should host the Oscars. Oh my god, guys! I want to host the Oscars but I'm too busy fighting the Scorpion! He swings around. Hagrid should present a memoriam. Julie Taymor can direct. It'll be her. I remember!

[00:14:14] You guys have heard that, right? What? The weird In My Life Beatles tribute album. What's his name? The fifth Beatle. George Martin? Yes, George Martin did an album that was like a Beatles tribute album but each track is a different kind of thing.

[00:14:31] And John Williams does an orchestral version of the Yellow Submarine suite. Everyone has their take. And Connery does In My Life as a spoken word piece. And it's incredible. That does sound pretty good. He does not even attempt to be rhythmic. In My Life. I've loved them all.

[00:14:52] It was 98? We've also got Robin Williams doing Come Together? Yes. Goldie Hawn doing A Hard Day's Night? You said musicians. This sounds like comedians. Well, Sleepy Hawn did Here, There, and Everywhere. But Jim Carrey did I Am The Walrus. It's really starfuckery. But the Connery track is amazing.

[00:15:18] Because you have all these people who are just like, come on, you're not a singer. Don't even try to do this. And Connery's like, I'm not pretending. There are places I remember. And they play sweeping music behind him but he's not worried about even hitting the meter.

[00:15:34] Featuring Sean Connery on lead spoken word vocal. It's an incredible track. Yeah. In My Life. But it's like if people are fans and I can't imagine why a monologue Sean Connery did called Dumb Movies I think you might like Sean Connery doing In My Life.

[00:15:55] Our guest today, of course, is one of our favorite people. One of our dearest friends. Returning to the show from Thrillist. Your new book! That's right! I'm going to get the title wrong. It's called Beyond The Best Dressed. It's about the history of Oscar fashion. Yes.

[00:16:15] It is out February 1st. So it is out in two days. Two motherfucking days. Oh my god. This episode's dropping on Sunday. Buy it this week. There's obviously a lot to talk about in the piano but I think we should just get out of the way.

[00:16:35] Anna Paquin Lowkey, one of the best Oscar looks of all time? 100%. Have you said her name? Esther Zuckerman! Oh, you didn't say my name? Easy rights! Esther Zuckerman's here. And yes, you have something on Anna Paquin. I have a section on three kids.

[00:16:58] I have a section where I talk about Tatum O'Neal, Anna Paquin, and Quvenzhané Wallace. Interesting. So Tatum wears the little suit. Tatum wears the little tux. I can't even remember what Quvenzhané wears. Quvenzhané is not really about the dress. Oh yeah, I remember that.

[00:17:15] She brings a puppy purse to every single... Right, right. She wears a dress that actually looks like something out of the piano. She sat next to Bradley Cooper at the big photo shoot they do. The Oscar's lunch. And then Anna Paquin.

[00:17:31] And actually it was really hard to find. Paquin was the hardest to find. She was a very, very sheltered kid. Her parents were extremely protective. She's a kid from New Zealand. I did one interview with her and her family. I think it was in LA Times.

[00:17:45] At the time. Any interview she gave, one of her parents was there. They were very, very smart. And look, to their credit. What child star has turned out better than her? Right. She's turned out as well as anybody. No one's turned out better than she has

[00:18:01] in terms of not being broken by winning a fucking Oscar when you're 11. And she's actually said, which I write about in the book, she's like, obviously I'm proud of the Oscar, but I don't consider it one of my greatest achievements

[00:18:14] because I didn't fucking know what I was doing. That's a good fucking perspective. It is a good perspective. But she was like, honestly, it's a huge credit to Holly. It's a huge credit to Jane that I won the Oscar. I'm obviously proud of it,

[00:18:28] but it's not one of my life's greatest achievements because I was... She was a little kid when she was 11 when she won, I believe. And yeah, her family kept her in New Zealand. She doesn't make Fly Away Home until three years later.

[00:18:42] It's not like she immediately went to make more stuff. Right, and Amadeus is the same year... Not Amadeus, I'm sorry. Amistad. Amistad is the year after. Which is obviously a tiny role. Yes, sure. And I think there's a quote in the piece

[00:18:56] that's in my book where they called it... They had no idea this movie was going to be as huge as it was. They called it Jurassic Piano because it's the same year as Jurassic Park, which we will talk about. Reference to this in a previous episode,

[00:19:11] but some fucking Reddit post I read about Criterion finally moving into 4Ks, releasing physical 4K discs. And Piano was part of this very early wave of like... We're recording it, this episode, one week before the thing comes out

[00:19:29] and it was this thing where we couldn't time it out but I'm just like, I wish I could have waited a fucking week longer. But yeah, it's like a big deal. Criterion is finally coming into this and Citizen Kane and Manista Society and Piano, like this first wave

[00:19:44] and someone I saw said it's great that Criterion is getting into 4K because they're willing to release a lot of the more obscure movies that the studio wouldn't release. Like something like the Piano would never get released otherwise.

[00:19:56] And I'm like, I don't think you understand how big the Piano was. Piano was a big deal? It was like such a colossal fucking art house crossover movie in this era where like fucking English is the cresting of that. Of the total Miramax domination of European literary...

[00:20:16] Actually functioning as a blockbuster that makes $200 million worldwide. But this was like a surprise crossover success that was very much at the nexus of the cultural conversation. It was a movie you had to see if you were grown up. In a year that's humongous,

[00:20:33] a year where fucking Tom Hanks wins for Philadelphia. This is such a big ass Oscar year. Let's just start with the Oscars. We're just talking Oscars right now. The thing about the Packard win... It's her speech too. Her speech is crazy because she can't breathe.

[00:20:49] So this is the first Oscars that I remember. I believe I watched a couple of the earlier when I was so little, but this is the first one I remember and it's partly because of her. You were probably too little.

[00:20:57] I was too little. The first one I watched was English Patient. What year is it? It's 94. Early 94 would be the ceremony. I remember when she won she was a kid and I was like a kid won? Then there was that weird moment where she gets up there

[00:21:15] and she's not talking. She literally cannot catch her breath. My mom is like is this kid about to melt down? I remember my mom being like Jesus. Then she composes herself and she's like I'd like to thank the academy and I'd like to thank Jane and Hully.

[00:21:30] It's a very brief speech. It's odd to watch because A, she doesn't have the accent anymore. No! Oh you mean like now? She actually lost it. She doesn't really have her native accent. She actually lost the accent and by the time that she's starting to act more regularly

[00:21:46] by the late 90s and 2000s she's got the American accent. When you watch her in this movie you're like okay sure. When you watch her give this speech you're like right she's from New Zealand so that takes you out one. Two, she's so young

[00:21:59] You're just like the perspective of her against the Oscar statue you really realize how tiny she is. Do you know who gave her the Oscar? Is it who won the previous year? Correct. So it would have been supporting actor in the 93 ceremony for 92 movies.

[00:22:15] I just watched all three of the Piano's Wins. Pacino with wonderful long hair gives Hully Hunter hers. He's fucking looking great. HULLY HUNTER! Gene Hackman who had just won for Unforgiven. He's like these four great actors are about to give a great performance pretending they're happy

[00:22:35] but the thing with the Pacwin win is people in retrospect are like it must have been a weak category and it wasn't. It was a weird category though. It was a little weird but she was a genuine surprise winner. Can I just throw out my final thought

[00:22:53] about her speech and then talk about this category What's odd is she's so tiny she's speaking in the New Zealand accent She has her little beret and her little vest She's dressed like a genuine child. The hat's the thing that always really sticks out to me.

[00:23:08] It's a sparkly beret. But then like she's both dressed like a genuine child but also sort of dressed like an old lady. Whereas I feel like now so often child stars are forced to dress like 25 year old women. Right. I mean it definitely feels like

[00:23:26] her look does feel like sort of like it feels like woodland creature. It does feel like it's from sort of She looks like she's out of willow. And then as you said she comes in and you're just like is this girl going to faint?

[00:23:42] Her eyes are open so wide I'm watching live TV and I'm going to watch something messed up happen. And she both seems to be in such shock and yet is still more composed than most people accepting an Oscar. That's the other odd thing She collects herself.

[00:23:59] She's still catching her breath but she's so coherent with what she's saying. And you just see there's also the cuts to like Holly and James so happy for her Which is always what makes me cry at the Oscars is when you can see because the Olivia Colman win

[00:24:17] Obviously Colman's speech is incredible but Emma Stone being so happy Lady Gaga That's why I watch it all the time Lady Gaga! Isn't it funny that Olivia Colman in the speech makes the joke about this is never going to happen again Now you become Emma Thompson

[00:24:36] She could win this year You're like the person who gets nominated every single year So tell me who won the Globe and whose Oscar this was considered to be Which is funny because that was also like oh she's very young She's a child actor, she's 22, she's finally ready

[00:24:52] and then next year she gets her second nomination for Little Women and then her Oscar run is over but I think at this point, Winona was seen as like well she's obviously inevitable It's Kate Hudson It's like here she is She's in this movie

[00:25:08] and it's a good role Obviously Age of Innocence that character is like LaFaya and has the kind of moment at the end and you're like Oscar She may be wins either New York or LA She was the winner What is odd about this category You have Holly Hunter

[00:25:27] and Emma Thompson in both supporting and lead and Emma Thompson had one lead only the year before Emma Thompson was nominated for Remains of the Day and In the Name of the Father Holly Hunter for Piano and Firm It only happened six times previous to this year

[00:25:43] and it happened twice in one year So that is true You have Winona and then you have Rosie Perez in Fearless which is like such an incredible performance and probably was never going to win but you know kind of a whiff that they didn't but the thing is

[00:25:59] Pat Quinn is so good at the piano But this is the weird thing It's not a weak category but you're like well Holly Hunter is not going to win because she's going to win for the piano Emma Thompson is not going to win because she won last year

[00:26:11] Although she gets a huge cheer and she's actually incredible in In the Name of the Father You know when you watch those Oscars you're always like who got the big cheer Strathairn in Good Night and Good Luck is one I always remember

[00:26:24] because actors love that guy so much Anyway she gets the biggest cheer And she wins Best Screenplay two years later This is the run where she's just unstoppable So they kind of cancel each other out and themselves out Winona is the presumed front runner

[00:26:40] and Rosie Perez, despite maybe being the best performance in the group, is kind of like The nom is the reward, the movie's not as big So it does come down to two juveniles She had won Lafka Rosie Perez And New York had gone to

[00:26:57] I'm going to look it up Holly Hunter on the other hand Gong Lee and Farewell My Concubine Fucking great win from New York Holly Hunter on the other hand is just like a steamroll Yes, even though Holly Hunter Can you tell me who she was up against

[00:27:13] Emma Thompson Emma Thompson and Remain of the Day Angela Bassett in What's Love Got to Do With It which is sort of like an all-time performance Debra Winger in Shadowlands Doesn't exist, movie on a shelf

[00:27:25] That was a movie on a shelf for almost as long as The King's Daughter And then Stocker Channing in Six Degrees of Separation which is kind of like her best work Right? And a performance so good that they were like Yeah, we gotta That's her only nom

[00:27:42] Steamrolled for a mute performance I know Well she's got narration at the beginning and the end But it's a mute performance It's, I mean It is fascinating to watch her in this because you're just like It's so bizarre that this is her

[00:27:58] Yes, I was going to say that It is so counter to what you think of as like a Holly Hunter role Both how she had established herself prior to this movie and who she's been for the 30 years When you see her at the Oscars

[00:28:12] and it's like, oh yeah She's like, oh my god She's so earthy The Queen of Textures, Holly Hunter And it is funny You were talking about the accent at the beginning and like, yeah Her accent at the beginning and the end is like a teensy bit shaky

[00:28:30] I thought she was going for New Zealand The accents are weird Anna Paquin is also doing a Scottish accent and it is also weird Anna Paquin doing the accent is crazy because she was just a kid from New Zealand who learned the accent to do it

[00:28:45] which is insane That's insane But yeah, at the beginning and the end I think it also sort of works because the voice is supposed to be so thin and undeveloped and it's the mind's voice There's a, you know What voice are we really hearing in this?

[00:29:03] However, it's so counter to a voice that you expect to come out of Holly Hunter She has one of the most distinctive voices period of any living actor and I cannot think of another movie where she has transformed it that much

[00:29:18] and it helps obviously that she only speaks for a grand total of less than 4 minutes of this film, you never visually see her speak but like, it is one of those things where you're like, I'm not going to be able to accept her doing a different voice

[00:29:30] I think if you had to hear that voice coming out of her while her lips moved on screen you would reject it You almost couldn't get away with having her play a different nationality in a wildly different time period unless she was mute Right

[00:29:46] Because otherwise there's something very modern and very Texas about her Yeah, that's true And her run before this is like, I guess she's like Barbara Stanwyck I guess she's like The films she's doing before this are She does the two Coen brothers movies She does broadcast news obviously

[00:30:05] She does Miss Firecracker This is like a big left turn from who she was developing herself to be as a movie star And her stillness too There's something so It is very hard to define There's something so still about her She's like hyperverbal, sparkplug All American

[00:30:27] Can't stop moving Right It's so The way her hair is styled and the way her eyes emote but you also can't really tell how she's feeling for a lot of the movie until you can Can I make an observation that's gonna sound more basic

[00:30:51] than it is and hopefully I can explain it Yeah, I mean I think I said a bunch of dumb stuff No, no, everything you've said is smart That's the trick of this podcast I make every guest sound smarter by saying stupid things

[00:31:02] I was giving a thumbs up for smart Oh, okay, cool I thought it was like an audio thing I was giving you thumbs up for great job Ben started a new system where he writes out report cards for our guests

[00:31:14] So he'll give you that on the way out Oh, I do have a blank check order of business to address Oh, okay I kept on thinking during this movie This really feels like a silent film performance and the dumb basic ass interpretation of what I just said is

[00:31:31] I was like, no, I just think the manner of acting especially the weird stillness of it I think when people do impressions of silent films or parodies of silent films they do crazy overacting but a lot of it is that sort of Kuleshov effect thing

[00:31:47] where it is this weird stillness that you're able to project emotions onto and just the intensity of the eyes and the looks and people just being able to really hold close ups It is It is odd It's an odd performance

[00:32:03] It's a very odd performance coming out of her Blank check order of business Oh, um So If we count the two all do anything episodes This is my five time I mean, I think it counts They're both main feed That was my

[00:32:23] That was my blank check order of business Right, because we released both We were both doing things in the same week but they were both main feed drops And we recorded them at different times I came into that studio twice Two distinct full length episodes

[00:32:38] So you did Aloha I'll do anything I'll do anything again And then what was your fourth? Little Mermaid Esther had demanded Can I please come on to talk about a movie that isn't a disaster And now I've gotten two in a row Yeah, like two seismic movies Yeah

[00:33:00] So thank you guys I can do a shitty one next Next time we're going to give you some real dog shit Yeah Um Yeah, it's just funny Because even after this Hunters Well, okay, I forgot After Broadcast News she does Always 2

[00:33:20] Which is like Spielberg trying to be like She's our new great comedic Like the high class But she's like Katherine Hepburn She's tough, she's got short hair She plays with the boys She's like a 40s style movie siren And then after this Her follow up films are

[00:33:41] You have the computer in front of you Oh okay, sure I was looking at it last night The Firm is the same year Her next movie is In 95 she has Copycat and Home for the Holidays She's great in That is very much her doing

[00:33:58] What she was doing pre-piano It's in the mode I've never seen Home for the Holidays I was thinking about watching it this year I watched it last quarantine isolation Thanksgiving Thanksgiving classic Directed by Jodie Foster of course One of Robert Downey Jr.'s best performances

[00:34:14] I've never seen Copycat Which is weird because I love a 90s crime movie Who's in that with her? Sigourney Weaver And I think Harry Connick Jr. Is in it I've always wanted to see it I think it's that Sigourney Is maybe agoraphobic

[00:34:32] And is helping Holly solve a crime Of Copycat killings The original woman in the window I can't remember who is And then in 96 she does Crash Which is her being like Fuck you Which she's great in And is so hot in And has good hair

[00:34:53] And a very iconic Holly Hunter look And then it's a lot of fucking around It's like a life less ordinary Living out loud Woman wanted I don't even know what that is A movie that Kiefer Sutherland directed Yeah the next movie I really registered in Timecode Oh Brother

[00:35:13] She has a small part in it and she's very funny But that's a big deal She's back with the Coens But she's mostly just scolding him She's very funny Moonlight Mile Which is a big role No sorry a big movie but she's not a big role 13

[00:35:31] And then 13 was like The comeback She is really good in that movie That movie is terrible in my opinion But she's so good I only have a sense of 13 13 is like Euphoria made by someone It's even dumber I was obsessed with Because I guess What year was that? 2003

[00:35:58] So I was literally 13 And you were behaving that way That was exactly my life But I was obsessed with the trailer for it Because it was like this It's sort of the way you were saying It was like this thing that felt super forbidden For me

[00:36:14] Like these are kids my age And I was also sort of like Jealous of Nikki Are you kidding me? Because she made a movie Yeah because she got to make the movie And she got to write the movie Do you have to be a bad kid

[00:36:31] To get somebody to let you Write a movie I'm good and no one is giving me an independent spirit nomination I'm trying I remember there was the brief thought That would get a screenplay nomination I had remembered that it had gotten a screenplay nomination

[00:36:45] I feel like we had this conversation We did And then after that Obviously like she's in the Incredibles You know, iconic And arguably one of those examples Of like a voiceover role That kind of revives a live action career To a little bit

[00:37:03] And of course Elastigirl has a fabulous ass But it's also such a good Holly Hunter role It's such a good She's incredible We'll just get more Holly Hunter out there Well except we don't get more Holly Hunter out there Because I'm with you except it doesn't happen

[00:37:20] What happens after? I don't know, she did that show Saving Grace Where she got an Emmy nom or two Where she was like Obviously she's in Top of the Lake Which we're going to talk about Which is incredible And playing Jane Campion She's on Mr. Mayor right now

[00:37:38] Right Is that the one with Ted Danson No one's talking about that thing It's on NBC It's one of those things where I'm like Guys He's on a scooter, this is all we could think of She plays like She plays like She plays like earthy hippie That like

[00:38:00] He's sort of like celebrity mayor And she's like You know activist hippie Who is this for? I don't know It was supposed to be Jack Donaghy It was supposed to be a 30 rock spin off Where Jack Donaghy runs for mayor

[00:38:19] But it was also when Alec Baldwin was like I'm going to run for mayor of New York It was ripping on that Of course she did Succession She had a good little argument But this is the thing Probably fuck Logan on Succession She drank the peach tea

[00:38:35] She did drink the peach tea In Batman vs. Superman Now obviously Hollywood is not nice About women In their I think her standing is as strong as anyone Of her age bracket Getting the snub for Big Sick was Flat out rude That was a wild snub

[00:38:56] She got every precursor I think or at least most of them She got snubbed for Octavia Spencer in the Shape of Water Who's giving a perfectly nice performance That she's given and been knocked for before It was such a weird snub I gave her my win

[00:39:10] At the Blankies episode that year And sometimes I go back and I watch movies That we were all about in the Blankies And I'm like what was I on about for this? You know you get caught up in Oscar season When my mom had COVID

[00:39:24] Was in the hospital I watched that movie again Jesus Christ why would you do that? Because A hospital movie B My mom reminds me of Holly Hunter Why would you torture yourself? I was fucking trying to sort of like cathartically Work through it

[00:39:41] I was sort of compelled to rewatch it That performance is fucking unbelievable And Ray Ray's amazing It's a weird year But she The thing I was kind of taken by looking at her Wikipedia Last night is she has not made that many movies Period

[00:39:59] And it's not even like women of a certain age Even at her peak She wasn't working as much as her contemporaries Seems like she was a little more selective Except she's done like so many movies I've never heard of this

[00:40:11] So I guess she just does what she wants to do Oh shit she was in that Sorry I was like what was that TV show? And it was the 2018 Alan Ball series Here and Now Do you remember that? With Tim Robbins Oh that fucking thing Weird career

[00:40:31] She's a legend forever Sandy Koufax But the point is A large part of that legendary status Is this performance And this performance is such an outlier in her career It's the one thing where you're like I can't believe that's the same person It is and obviously

[00:40:48] As I'm sure you guys know She was not remotely the first choice And she was not Can you go through the list of the other choices? Sigourney and Jennifer Jason Leigh Which is like in 1993 Very plausible Upair was someone who tried for the role

[00:41:05] And later was like I really wish I had Like you know Campaign She did like camera tests with Campion And at the time when it seemed like maybe Campion was leaning towards her Hunter started campaigning really hard And she was like I didn't fight for it enough

[00:41:19] And it's my biggest career regret It's so interesting because I also don't think Like Upair is right for it It's hard to imagine her as like a shrinking violet She's too strong She's such a good actress You don't imagine her as a shrinking violet

[00:41:35] But there's something also about like Holly Hunter's size that I think works There's a vulnerability to her But this is the thing Campion said I did not imagine the character so small She's supposed to be like six feet tall That's why I went after Sigourney

[00:41:49] I wanted her to be this tall thin creature Kidman's another person you can imagine it being Angelica Houston, Juliette Binoche Madeline Stowe are some of the others Houston would have been demented The other ones kind of make sense I mean it's a list of names Of like

[00:42:06] Yes these were very serious beautiful actresses Who had a lot of screen presence In the early 90s Sigourney is the one that makes total sense And you can see her Even being good and you can see her winning an Oscar

[00:42:18] You know like you can certainly see that movie And we talked about this before but Sigourney is at that moment In the zone where they're like this is the most undeniable She's going to win an Oscar in the next five years

[00:42:26] Person and then she never gets nominated ever again 100% And Holly obviously is very petite We've seen the big six She's like 5'2 I call her Holly Pocket Yeah Holly Pocket I call her Holly Pocket And whatever she wins I can probably find a quote

[00:42:46] We've obviously talked about this a lot before But particularly in the late 90s early 2000s My mother used to get constantly mistaken for Holly Hunter My mother looks like Holly Hunter But I think a huge part of that was just My mother is like tiny

[00:42:59] The Holly Hunter is so known for being tiny And so fragile That I think my mother also looks like a porcelain doll Here's the can't be in quote I like Holly Hunter very much as an actor I didn't immediately think of her Probably because like everyone else

[00:43:13] I had a stereotypical idea The romantic heroine tall with exquisite manners And then I thought it would be more intense To go against the stereotype Because it's not just that Holly Hunter is little But she is a firecracker That's her classic energy on screen But it is

[00:43:30] When you think about Holly Hunter Even crazier to imagine her being like Yeah me, I'll show you my reel Raising Arizona, broadcast news You're not getting mute Scottish widow out of this? It's funny that this movie has Not a widow actually Mute Scottish whatever Woman with a child

[00:43:50] This movie has two performances like that Where I'm like you cast actors I only think of existing in the present day In very specific regions Where I'm like I somewhat mentally reject Any time Harvey Keitel is playing a character Who did not grow up in Brooklyn

[00:44:06] What if he grew up in Queens? Like Last Temptation of Christ I think that's a good performance But it's an insane performance And he's got red hair Which is so weird I think he's good in this too But I will say unlike Hunter where I fully buy it

[00:44:23] Every time Keitel is on screen in this I'm like you're from fucking Brooklyn The reason Keitel works In this movie obviously I think he barely works I think it's a good performance It's because he's willing to show hog Snub-nosed pistol Absolutely that's one thing

[00:44:41] But two is he's playing someone who is Pretending or is like Is not of the land And is sort of like Power of the dog casting He's so smart about casting You're talking about of course Benedict Cumberbatch I assume No it's talking about Kirsten Dunst

[00:44:59] But yeah no exactly right Cast someone who seems a little like they're putting it on You're creating tension by casting someone Who seems a little miscast He's got a bit of a sailor face He does And a sailor body He's sort of a little barrel chested and short

[00:45:15] He does seem like someone who could rough it Or be like The ends of the earth I'm not going to out by name But there's a person I know who worked with Keitel Who watching his process on set was like I don't know if he can Actually act

[00:45:34] I think 75% of it is just that he's got a good face He does have a good face He's also got like a Seth Rogen level laugh Where like only he laughs like that And anytime he doesn't You're like holy shit it's him again There's that weirdness of like

[00:45:49] He's like the Billy Jacked he is all the time Into his like 60s He's such a good actor But it's true He's more buff in the piano than Michael Keaton is as Batman It's hard to imagine Keitel Like doing Lear He's not like that kind of actor

[00:46:05] Where you're like I'd love to unleash him On fucking the Glass Menagerie You just want to see him You want to see him exist This is why It's not a backhanded thing about the face He is so fascinating looking And there's such an intensity in his face

[00:46:21] And the way he looks at people That it is just like there's power That's what makes them such a good match In this film Yeah no sorry I'm just thinking about Keitel I might love Harvey Keitel Were you going to say a Keitel thing?

[00:46:37] If you love him so much then why don't you marry him? I don't know is he married? Well he was with Lorraine Brock He's married to some nice lady I was not going to say something The year after this is Pulp Fiction Which is one of

[00:46:52] His performance in Pulp Fiction Is maybe the best performance Just walk in and steal the movie It's perfect casting This is what I'm saying You don't think with Keitel This is one cool customer When he comes in You're like oh Keitel I'm scared of him

[00:47:10] He usually he's playing a heavy And then he comes into that And he's really really funny And he's completely collected He's super slick Everything he does you're like Yeah that's what the wolf does That's what's so good about that whole section You know what's so funny

[00:47:28] Is that like Tarantino's talked about this a lot But when I wrote Reservoir Dogs I knew I had to write a part That was so good for an older established actor Where I could get my financing If I got someone of that level

[00:47:43] That's the only reason Reservoir Dogs gets made Is the script gets to Keitel And Keitel likes it And that gives him the seniority And it's like big emotion Crying and yelling And Keitel by all accounts Has bemoaned the fact

[00:47:59] That since then he felt like Tarantino never repaid him And I'm like He gave you the wolf But you hear that about Keitel a lot With Scorsese as well Where he's like why am I not in I'm sorry that we're talking about Pulp Fiction

[00:48:14] But remember where he's like Where do you guys live And it's like Redondo Beach, Englewood And he goes your future I see a cab ride He nails that line It's so funny It's also funny that the person who now uses Keitel The best is Wes Anderson

[00:48:32] He's so good in Grand Budapest Yeah and he's great in fucking Moonrise as well Grand Budapest has obviously got a lot more to do But that's the thing He's a little scary, he's kind of heavy I feel like if I punch him It'll hurt my hand

[00:48:46] Or he'll just kind of look at me And I'll be like sorry He's old school ripped Where you're like these aren't muscles for show This is like brute force The year before this obviously he's bad lieutenant Where he's staggering around, waggling it Cutting the pistol

[00:49:02] But that's the thing The tight muscles I got it Reservoir Dogs is 92 as well He's really kind of JFK What am I talking about? Bugsy is the year before That's still his only Oscar nod? He should have an Oscar nod at some point

[00:49:23] Let's just give him the nod for this And he plays Lansky in that? No he plays Mickey Cohen Does fucking Kingsley play Lansky? Kingsley is Mary Lansky That movie is so bad But Keitel did a movie Last year playing old man Lansky Did he not?

[00:49:43] He did a movie called Lansky He's so good in the Irishman This is that 20 years on From Scorsese discovering him Kind of Keitel Reappreciation Elder Statesman Of auteur cinema Who's that Archimedes? He was hot It's like the thing they always talk about 1970s

[00:50:10] For the first time movie stars were guys who look like you're butchering I think he's very hot on the piano I do too But definitely if I saw Harvey Keitel In his If I'm at a bar And I'm on the prowl

[00:50:24] And I saw Harvey Keitel in his piano Look at the bar I would be like I don't know if I'm going to knock on that guy's door He's got a weird energy He's like a pitbull He just has that energy To have a face tattoo

[00:50:41] When does this movie take place? This movie takes place in the 1850s That's like Really really ahead Of the SoundCloud rapper era Do you know what I mean? He is so light years ahead He was doing laps around Tekashi The classic Maori tattoos

[00:50:59] They would notch grooves into your face Which some of the Side characters have that Where as others Can we just circle back This movie doesn't take place in 1992? I believe It's the 1850s I can tell The fashions but I just thought This movie is 30 years old

[00:51:21] I do want to read some campaign quotes There were no hobbits Which I was really surprised Just because you expected New Zealand That there would be a hobbit or two There's a scene where Kaitel is like Come back to my hobbit hole and teach me piano

[00:51:36] It is just so funny To give some backstory for this movie We'll have second breakfast This movie is in Jane Campion's head As early as Sweetie or An Angel at My Table How do you fucking just Sit down as a film school graduate And go like

[00:51:52] What if there was a piano? This is such a bizarre movie To not be adapted from anything It's so funny because obviously I hadn't really thought about it But I was like Just to confirm It wasn't adapted My mind keeps on telling me This is some book

[00:52:12] Or some sort of story Based on pianos Pianos Yeah Okay She did sort of She novelized it There is The LA Times published an excerpt From her novelization Right but it's weird It's got whole chapters where she just talks about her favorite movies It's a joke about Tarantino

[00:52:41] I read it I had a good time I read it on a hammock I read it on a hammock That was A couple quote on the jacket Good for hammock Good hammock read So she's got these three When she's made these short films

[00:53:02] She's like I'd love to make a Janet Frame autobiography I would love to make Sweetie this little movie about sisters And I'd love to make this movie about You know English and Scottish people Anglo-Saxons arriving in New Zealand The Sweetie thing This is what's so bizarre

[00:53:20] By her account Sweetie was cheaper Sweetie seemed to be the idea that was least formed at that moment She's like having done two friends Having done her short films She's like piano is the thing that's really kicking around in her head She's ready to go with that

[00:53:34] Right and she's like I'd like to do something about Janet Frame I haven't quite cracked that one And then she gets these awards At Cannes And she's like I should use this momentum To make a weird low budget comedy

[00:53:46] That no one will let me make later in my career The weird foresight she has is If I make piano now I can't go backwards to Sweetie Right And evolve to piano But it's somehow even harder To imagine her just being like

[00:54:01] I have this idea for the piano fully formed in my head I'm going to sit on it for four years Well it's so interesting Obviously she needed more money to make I feel like I'm allowed So I went to a reception For Power of the Dog This year

[00:54:17] You're allowed Griffin's allowing you Well no I told David I was going to watch Holy Smoke For the first time You talked with J-Dog Yeah I talked with J-Dog Cool I also talked with her current producer Tanya Who rules and is so fun T-Money Yeah Okay I'm sorry

[00:54:47] So stupid This podcast No Oh shit Sorry I just started laughing I just threw my face in the mic No but I was talking with her And I said I had just seen Holy Smoke For the first time and it sort of blew my mind

[00:55:05] And she said something about Wanting to make a comedy again Which is so interesting to me Because also I do feel like I wanted to mention this too Obviously I didn't see the piano when it came out I was three years old Hummelbrag Hummelbrag yeah

[00:55:24] But I had this impression Of it as this like Very and it is a very serious movie But this sort of like very sort of like Stayed Oscar-y movie And then you know you look at her other work And like she is funny And there is funny stuff

[00:55:40] And I thought that was really interesting Her short films Are very comedic Sweetie is so much more of a comedy than I expected When I saw it for the first time I talked about in our episode Which hasn't come out at the time we are recording this

[00:55:54] But I watched Sweetie with commentary And she is just so fucking funny as a person Yeah And so jokey and even talking about Her more serious films that come later in her career It's odd And like Power of the Dog is very funny

[00:56:10] Like a lot of her quote unquote serious movies Are viewed with A weird Comedic vibe This is maybe her least funny movie The funniest moment in Power of the Dog For me is like Jesse Plemons has come back To the Sort of kitchen Where Kirsten Dunst

[00:56:33] Is working and he like just looks at it He takes A like a container And it's like he looks at it And he is like Sauce It's like he reads the label And it's like It's just like it's very deadpan And it's very funny

[00:56:54] She is like very into the weirdness Of human behavior And the thing she says in the Sweetie commentary Which I've already said but it just bears repeating Is that she is like I always go out of my way In all of my movies to try to have

[00:57:06] A news scene And to show people going to the bathroom I'm sorry How long have we been recording Four hours What are we doing Look at me building a bridge to horniness I'm just like What are we even doing Doing context I know I just wanted

[00:57:28] We haven't even got to first base Come on Esther and I like slack each other everyday If there is like boobs in something we are watching It's just ridiculous We are all so bored in our fucking homes Like watching art films

[00:57:44] And Esther is like some good boobs in that Sunday screener You started the boobs thing Yes sure Not trying to pass the buck I wasn't the one that was like First messaging David Do you want it cut Esther if it hurts No no no

[00:58:01] I just wanted to make it clear That you were the one who initiated Asking me if there are boobs in a movie Or Dick And now I will just tell you If there are boobs in a movie Esther thank you for clarifying

[00:58:15] That you are currently angling for the job of chief film critic For Mr. Skin Yes of course That's funny to imagine A bunch of critics watching a movie Taking notes And Mr. Skin guy is just like sitting bored

[00:58:31] And then there is a new scene and he is like He is having a horny He is just curiously writing notes Like in the cut The one in knocked up They make a joke about it And it's like your favorite actress And she is like Meg Ryan

[00:58:48] He is like bam in the cut boobs bush She doesn't like it Which they don't realize is Mr. Skin Which is such a good joke In knocked up He is doing a Mr. Skin And then halfway through Paul Rudd is like Wait that's just Mr. Skin

[00:59:04] This side exists Sidebar what makes that joke so funny Is Paul Rudd doing the face A doing the face And then he is operating on movie logic This doesn't exist within the movie Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip And unlike Studio 60 when they say

[00:59:21] Lauren over at SNL and destroys the reality This is the comedic version of that Where they are like no there is a real version Your business ideas back We just didn't know So let's get horny David wants to do more context We can let David do more context

[00:59:39] She says she always tries to put nude scenes And bathroom scenes There is a peeing scene in this movie In all of her films Right at the start peeing And later too And multiple full frontal But she is like I just think it's funny It's goofy

[00:59:59] It's interesting to watch people In this very odd awkward vulnerable state She doesn't think of it as being This super erotic thing It's very weird to look at someone's naked body And how people move when they are naked If we are talking about peeing on screen

[01:00:14] Can I just tell you a really random thing That's in my brain I have this very strong memory And I don't think it's actually in the movie Because I think it's something that I invented I don't know Maybe it is I haven't rewatched this movie that recently

[01:00:32] But I saw the Jillian Ironstone Little Women When I was like 4 And I have a memory Of somebody in that movie hoisting up their petticoats And peeing That can't be true Like in the PG All for the family Is it? I don't know

[01:00:50] I haven't seen that movie since I was a kid I'm pretty sure it's absolutely not true Or you are thinking of some other movie I went and looked for it Scrubbed through the Netflix You check MrPiss.com It probably exists It absolutely exists my friend

[01:01:07] But it's this thing When I was a child Being so obsessed with that movie And so obsessed with the idea of petticoats But also trying to How do you pee in that? Also trying to In my brain Reconcile human bodily functions With the fantasy You invented the scene

[01:01:29] Because you were caught up in the logic I think so It's like the Harry Potter thing Remember at some point JK Rowling Was just doing the thing where she writes blog posts She was like Before they had plumbing They would just clean it up with their wands

[01:01:46] Clean what up? How? When? Would they just stop? I don't think it's exactly like that Her explanation is even weirder Than what David just said They would just shit on the floor And then they'd like I didn't want to derail this But it's just a weird

[01:02:04] It's just a kept in memory You didn't derail anything You re-railed it I just think it's funny And everything you're saying is true She demands certain things Not everyone's going to be able to be in a Jane Campion movie That's probably part of it She might want nudity

[01:02:22] Or some weird Characters She's making this movie Which is about New Zealand to her That's how she talks about it When she's just trying to Because it's hard for her to describe this project In these interviews It's sort of about Anglo settlement in New Zealand

[01:02:41] And she picks Holly Hunter And Harvey Keitel as the leads Mr. Brooklyn and Ms. Texas It's so insane They're two of the most regionally specific actors I think she was probably Sam Neill is wonderful in this movie But she's probably required by law

[01:02:57] Come on! You have to cast someone from around here And just insane I think this is the same year as Jurassic Park That he has I was watching it He's getting cucked by Goldblum in Park He's getting cucked by Keitel here He's getting cucked by the Rex

[01:03:13] Which filmed first? I have to assume Jurassic Park Well, yeah Because post production that must have been a nightmare He shot all Where did that whistle come from? I was watching yesterday Bob would come in and watch Do you think Sam Neill on set was just like

[01:03:34] To little tiny Alison To little tiny Anna Paquin Like I've seen dinosaurs Like I motherfucking seen Dinosaurs My logic is that They shot all of Jurassic Park And Steven Spielberg was supervising post production While shooting Schindler's List Which comes out the same season as Can't

[01:03:54] I knew he was working on post on one When he was shooting the other How did he pull this off? I'm guessing this shot after At the same time as Schindler The piano shot from April to July 1992 And Jurassic Park shot from August To fuck knows when

[01:04:11] So yes Neill went right from this to Jurassic Park Oh so he did piano first This was first So he couldn't tell tiny Anna Paquin I've seen dinosaurs He could not But he could probably say I'm going to Richard Attenborough said Welcome to Jurassic Park

[01:04:31] Welcome to base camp Your trailer is over there Do you think that's Everyone arriving Breakfast burritos Richard Attenborough And they're like what It's in the movie It is such a failing of the Universal Studios Theme parks that they don't have a cast member

[01:04:51] I don't even need them to be doing A Hammond impression I can't tell you how sad I am That the Jurassic Park Ride in Hollywood Is now Jurassic World I've gone on it twice now How is it? It's good But I I think the original Jurassic

[01:05:14] Park ride was getting a little bit creaky It was I did go on it Like the last summer it was open Because I was at the park to write my Waterworld story Which I've talked about on this pod before But one of my proudest moments

[01:05:28] And they gave me like a press ticket To the park and I was just there by myself And I was like I guess I'm going to go on Jurassic Park One more time before it like Goes away Oh no sorry what were you going to say

[01:05:40] Oh no it was great It clearly needed a little bit Of renovation and instead it became A general re-theming I do think it's impressive I obviously have no love for the modern I will say this as just an Objective fact I love Universal Hollywood

[01:05:59] I'm a lunatic who buys the Annual pass even though I live in New York Did you see the business insider story Or insider whatever it's called these days Where a girl was like I gave up my Coworking space and I bought an annual pass

[01:06:11] To Universal Studios Hollywood and I just Work out of the park I know several people who have done that That's psychotic Do you know how much an annual pass costs? And a ticket for one day costs like $100 So it's just worth it if you go

[01:06:26] More than once a year And I know people are just like I work out of the Three broomsticks cafe or whatever She was like I get my beer at Moe's Tavern When I'm done with work If I lived in LA I would absolutely do this

[01:06:38] Because I'm a maniac But I just think it's interesting that we can move on from this I do think Jurassic World is pretty Successful despite not loving those movies I do find it interesting That the couple of times I've been since Jurassic World

[01:06:50] Reopened there is constantly less of a line for that than there was for the park ride Right Because no one gives a shit Also it's a pandemic That's true That's true But other rides have like a fucking hour plus By the way I think your

[01:07:08] Waterworld piece is one of the only reasons There's now a new waterworld TV show That's a theory I have Thank you I hope that's true I think Universal is like wait we have weird I went to your friend Alex Ross Perry At a party like years ago

[01:07:23] When those still happened And he was like I was like oh I was introducing myself Through blank check and he mentioned That he'd read my waterworld story Okay Back to the piano Part of the cast she says I'm just like this is completely unfocused

[01:07:41] She says it's bizarre that I chose Harvey Kytel She admits it like I know that I associated him with like younger Mean streets bad timing the duelist Like you know 70s Kytel She saw the two Jake's Which I guess was a recent Kytel movie Not exactly right

[01:07:57] Not the one you'd think She liked him in that For those who don't know just to clarify Because it's a movie that I think most people would be astonished Jack Nicholson did decades later Chinatown sequel That he directed Kytel is the second lead in it That's fascinating

[01:08:16] It's a weird movie No it's interesting It's interesting She sends him the script He was divorcing Or breaking up Was he married to Bracco They were married Their breakup is very messy He was going through a notorious Breakup with Lorraine Bracco Which I didn't know about until recently

[01:08:40] And I don't want to get into But I was sort of shocked She says what was happening in his life He wanted to act In a film that spoke to the relationships Between men and women Rather than another cops and robbers movie He had never been tender

[01:08:57] On screen He was interested by the script for that reason Look at the run of all the films We were just talking about He's doing around this period of time Mickey Cohen The wolf Bad lieutenant He's playing always either cops or criminals Judas The greatest criminal of all

[01:09:19] He betrayed our father Son, whatever Especially post Not mine Jesus is mad at me I don't know if it's Jesus as much as his fans Although he is in Thelma and Louise Which obviously he plays a cop But he's weirdly the sympathetic figure In that one

[01:09:39] He's just almost always a cop or a criminal That's his memory Sort of what he looks like Right So that's obviously What does monkey trouble come out? Relative to this movie Monkey trouble That's the one with the monkey It comes out a year later

[01:10:00] Can you tell me the tagline for monkey trouble Here comes monkey trouble Good tagline This looks like a double tagline We gotta look this one up I think I saw this movie in theaters I always forget which animal movies I saw in theaters Okay Tagline one

[01:10:20] He's cute, he's cuddly, he's a klepto Cause the monkey has like a Vest with watches that he's stolen I forgot how good the poster was And he and Thor Burch are wearing The same backwards red baseball cap They look like crisscross And then the second tagline is

[01:10:39] One of America's most wanted I didn't know that What would you do? I don't know I think Kytel is the villain in that Probably Gotta get that monkey That monkey's gotta go to jail Kytel is swerving I'm just saying everything could go wrong here Holly Hunter

[01:11:03] Is bizarre casting On paper Harvey Kytel is insane casting Sam Neill is perfect casting And she admits that I chose him right away He's really handsome His face is kind of perfect For the role Arguably the most dialogue heavy role Is given to an unknown 10 year old girl

[01:11:28] Like Pac-Man has more dialogue than anyone else Obviously The most interesting thing I think is also Kytel is all method He is a prime method guy He's fucking being crazy Sam Neill is a classically trained New Zealand Whenever I hear the name Harvey Kytel

[01:11:44] This is another one of my weird family stories I always think of This impression My dad does Of Burt Lancaster Saying Harvey Kytel Method actor Which is like Harvey Kytel method actor Which he heard From Peter Rieger Who Burt Lancaster told this story to On Local Hero

[01:12:09] Because Peter Rieger Is friends with my parents Or was friends with my parents One of the all time great Jews Is Peter Rieger not with us? No no no They're not like close Trouble in paradise They're not like not close They used to be very good friends

[01:12:29] Esther I don't know your parents I don't want to criticize them Remember how funny he was In Kimmy Schmidt He also showed up For like two seconds in succession I know that was weird because That was one of those things where you're like

[01:12:45] This is going to be a big role Right Whenever I hear Harvey Kytel And method actor I think of this weird Three level removed impression Just like Harvey Kytel method actor I want to read These quotes This one from Kytel is so good About working with Jane Campion

[01:13:08] Is this from the New York Magazine profile? I don't think so Jane Campion is a goddess And it's difficult for a mere mortal To talk about a goddess I fear being struck by lightning bolts Wow This says this is from the Christian Science Monitor

[01:13:24] Maybe he said this multiple times Or whatever He's called to clarify So he calls back I guess What's unusual about her Has to do with ethereal things She is at play like a warm breeze I love the guy picking up the phone Being like warm breeze

[01:13:43] Got it thank you for clarifying That really settled it down Who's Kytel working with as directors Like Tarantino All the guys I'm going to go watch E! movies Right now Yes absolutely Sam Neill says When you're an actor You're putting yourself in other people's hands

[01:14:07] She repays that gesture She's interested in complexity Not reductiveness She's very sure of what she's doing If you have an opinion contrary to her She listens with the greatest care and consideration And does what she had in mind all along Which I love And Genevieve Lemon

[01:14:25] By the way this is exactly the magazine profile That's fine I'm just reading from the dossier Getting pwned Avan Genevieve Lemon I love this She's always saying strip strip Give me less acting It just sounds so cool But right Everything we're saying Holly Hunter crazy casting

[01:14:49] Kytel crazy casting Then as you say They also have the challenge of A vocal burden Who can handle a workload She's sort of the link point of the movie But also she has to speak for the female lead Essentially She has to do sign language

[01:15:08] She's the one character Who's sort of the intermediary Between all the other characters Two stoic men who don't talk that much And a mute woman It's that classic They saw hundreds of kids And she was just so I don't know how it works with child actors

[01:15:26] There's probably just some kid Who's just so poised I'm sure Griffin probably has insight on this I was also thinking about this too In the context of Obviously Anna Paquin's performance is amazing But I was thinking about this I don't think you have David

[01:15:42] But I'm not sure if any of you guys have watched the show Yellow Jackets There's a creepy kid in it And I was thinking about the creepy kids That you cast How does it work? It's bizarre I used to always have that thought

[01:15:59] And I started auditioning for stuff And you're like oh I'm signing in to audition For like fucking Desperate Virgin number 2 Like the character's name is Or the breakdown describes you In such unflattering terms And when it's kid roles It's that much more of a mindfuck I think

[01:16:19] I was just jumping off of virgins Put a pin in virgins Put a pin in virgins You were tweeting About this movie With past and future guest Alan Sepinwall Because you just posted a photo Of Anna Paquin's Oscar speech This morning I rewatched all their Oscar wins

[01:16:38] It's just such an image And your wording was Because Sepinwall was sort of saying I haven't watched that since it came out It didn't really stick with me Is that movie like was that just hype Like that performance her winning the Oscar

[01:16:52] Is kind of weird I remember being flummoxed by it And your wording was Do you want to recite it directly Let me call up Wow I'm on a great page right now Twitter.com slash David Allsims What She's incredible It's probably the most poised

[01:17:10] Child acting performance of a generation Which I thought that was a very good way Of putting it because As much as she does have the burden Of carrying so much of it It's kind of Surprising That she doesn't necessarily have the big Oscar Scene

[01:17:29] Yeah when you think of her as an Oscar winner You're like right there must be some scene where she melts down I feel like it's also Well I don't know she has a scene where she's like Where she runs into Stuart Samniel and she's like

[01:17:41] Where is she going and she's like to hell Or like Which is great And she has the moment where she's Like tasked with It's so fucked up bringing the finger To To Baines to Harvey Keitel And just fully melts down

[01:17:59] And he's like sort of shaking her being like What did they do to your mother And the woman who is with him is like She's a child Holding her mother's finger She's got big moments but it is Like the win is kind of more like David

[01:18:13] As you said She has to kind of carry this entire Fucking thing on her shoulders I remember the Recently departed Peter Bogdanovich Talked about how like the thing that he thinks Got Tate Eboniel the Oscar Is that so much of that movie plays out In long one-er takes

[01:18:32] Of the two of them And he's like the fact that I'm not cutting around Her and that most child performances People know you just get a lot of shit and you put it Together in post That it's like here's a five page dialogue scene

[01:18:45] Was there a cravat when he said this though His big defense of that was that it was not It was a cowboy handkerchief He took it up on last picture show And the people think it's pretentious And it was actually I've heard him say that before

[01:19:01] I think at a fucking I mean the best thing is his water jug In the Sopranos Where Jonah Hill was like Apparently like met him and was like Why do you have a water jug with a mesh bag And he was like I brought it from home

[01:19:15] And they said I could use it That's why There's that joke in the documentary now episode I think it's the Mr. Showbiz episode Or whatever where he makes some line about Like I made a bet with da da da Anyway that's the reason I've been wearing

[01:19:29] The damn handkerchief for the last 50 years It's funny you bring up Tatum Eboniel Because I do that is sort of one of the other Because in the sort of chapter That I talk about Kids it's like this idea With Tatum is this like little girl Trying to pretend

[01:19:46] She's something that's not a little girl And her whole life is being forced into this And she chooses the tux Because it's Because she was in all Bianca Jagger Who her father Fucked at the time And you know The whole story around it is so sad

[01:20:04] Because it's like Also she writes in her memoir That when She got an Oscar nomination And Ryan O'Neal didn't he punched her Well he's a real cunt He's like one of the worst people In American history And Pacquen is so interesting too Because it's like

[01:20:24] And the whole thing about The Tatum performance is this sort of Kid that's wise Beyond her years And the whole thing that's really interesting I think about the Pacquen performance Is that Flora is a child Flora is such a child It's not like a paper moon performance

[01:20:45] Where you're like This kid is sort of like a wise talking kid Like Flora is a kid She's doing the cartwheel She's singing songs She's all energy and chaos And she's bratty in the way that a child is bratty And her allegiances switch

[01:21:01] In a way that a child's allegiances switch She says at the beginning I'm not going to call him papa And by the end when she's turning on her mother Because she feels ignored by her She's calling Sam Neil papa That's what's sort of amazing about the performance

[01:21:18] Because it is poised It is preternatural In a way But it's also a performance of a child It's not mannered I love Saoirse Ronan in Atonement And obviously she's playing a very calculating character But it's a very mannered performance And Saoirse Ronan Is notoriously one of those people

[01:21:38] Who is like Dakota Fanning Where from the youngest age She showed up on set And had the intensity and intelligence of an adult She was just a little adult It was a very psychologically thought out process And you were saying Absolutely But that Paquin sort of like

[01:21:56] I didn't know what the fuck I was doing At that point in time Compared obviously The disparity between her and Tatum O'Neil Who straight up children to win competitive Oscars Tatum O'Neil Could not be more in the Hollywood system In showbiz

[01:22:13] And also can never come out from the shadow Of her childhood performances Which even after Paper Moon Where she's also playing beyond her years And like Nickelodeon Where she's doing the same thing With Bogdanovich and her dad And all that sort of shit

[01:22:29] And she cannot figure out as an adult Whereas Anna Paquin has several phases of her career And she's always the correct age she is at that moment In different styles and whatever But I do think there's the similarity In those two performances Where you're just kind of like

[01:22:43] They gave them the Oscar Because they kind of went like There's clearly no trick here Like you just kind of have to admit That this kid is pulling off this incredible thing They're also not really supporting performances Absolutely not But they're children so

[01:22:59] They're sort of like immediately pegged as supporting I think it's the Paquin thing because She's literally supporting her mother It's kind of like the Brad Pitt in Hollywood thing Where it's like well He is on screen all the time But he says like I carry your bags

[01:23:14] I am supporting And they're the same gender And there's already best actors The fucking Paper Moon one is more egregious And it sets a bad precedent For any younger actor to be put in supporting Because yeah she is the lead of that movie But I do think

[01:23:31] Kavanah Zanee is a great example of like That's a very striking performance But I think everyone who worked on that movie Would tell you like And publicly have done so That was a very improvisational movie They shot a lot of footage They cast her based on energy

[01:23:47] And that's a child that's reacting to a world around her But that movie is being made in this very chaotic way But I do This movie is crazy I wonder what Jane Campion's directing style was on it You think of this as such an epic movie

[01:23:59] Because of the period setting But it's not really It really just has like 3 or 4 locations But it's also The beach location It looks so good It feels so sweeping That image of them on the beach But you really It's like You really

[01:24:21] Which is the sense she wants you to get These people are fucking landing on a beach It's the ends of the earth It's like what we get from Scotland to New Zealand I mean I know you take a boat But it's crazy It's so far

[01:24:36] And then it's like Welcome to New Zealand There's a bunch of fucking forests and jungles You want to build a house in there? Be my guest It's a crazy place to be I do want to point out Some indigenous writers have taken issue

[01:24:52] With the way she portrays the indigenous community Over time It's complicated But it is this sort of It's so foreign to these people They aren't foreign In this film But that is because this film is not from their perspective That's sort of the ultimate thing It's like

[01:25:12] This isn't about them But obviously it acknowledges that they actually worked with Maori consultants Cliff Curtis I see Cliff Curtis It's a young Cliff Curtis He's got long hair This is about intrusion They seem to mostly regard them With amusement The white settler

[01:25:33] There's a really great movie called Utu You should check it out About British colonization of New Zealand That is worth seeing Sorry go ahead Can I talk Risi on a quick side tangent That I swear is going to come back around

[01:25:47] To underlining a point of a thing that works In this movie and also Campion at large Go ahead I've been trying to catch up With the sort of Middling Oscar adjacent movies Of this season And I watched George Clooney's The Tender Bar

[01:26:06] Which you and I were texting about I have seen The Tender Bar You have seen it as well I saddled up at The Tender Bar You talked dickens I warmed up a stool You and I were texting about it We both had sort of the same Take away

[01:26:24] It is by default The best movie he has made Since Good Night and Good Luck And also somehow The single most damning Piece of evidence against his Skill as a director Because it is such a fucking t-ball layup That the fact that it does not succeed

[01:26:42] In even being a Gentleman's Six Is like astonishing Why is this movie not fun? Yeah Ben Affleck is great in it And you want him to be You are sort of rooting for it Because you are like This guy is playing a fun guy

[01:27:01] And he is doing a great job This should be the most watchable shit In the world And as I said to David If this movie was 20% better Ben Affleck would be winning the Oscar In a cakewalk I truly think

[01:27:17] If the movie surrounding him had any juice to it He should have gone to Nam for the last duel Absolutely If he gets the tender bar It is for his two supporting performances Leo and Blood Diamond But I am watching this movie And I am going

[01:27:33] How is he fucking this up? What is not working here? And a thing that sort of jumped out to me Is just like Every single performance in this movie Save for Affleck maybe Feels like a first take performance I am not implying that George Clooney is Clint Eastwood

[01:27:50] And does one take and is like We are out of here But when you talk about David What does a director do? To get these performances out of them To have actors talk about her in these reverential terms And so often it is hard to quantify

[01:28:04] What directing is And I think often people in the general public Who don't know that much about filmmaking Just think about it as Visual style Which only jumps out to me Like you are Zack Snyder or some shit Or Are the performances good?

[01:28:23] They just think about directors working with actors There is a thing my mother told me When I was young that always stuck with me Where she was like The way you can tell a movie is well directed Is if every performance in it is good She was like

[01:28:37] That doesn't happen by accident There could be good performances In a movie that was poorly directed And the actors kind of took over And she shows up for four lines and that movie crushes it And Watching Tender Bar Even Affleck Who is pretty fucking in the pocket

[01:28:55] Every scene feels like Clooney failed to find Any other additional interesting layers He failed to find Any way to throw it off the hump To put some weird energy in there To make some discovery Everything feels like the most surface level reading

[01:29:11] Of that's what you would do in this scene And can't be in every single scene In all of her movies I would say Or all the ones I've seen so far at least There's always just some odd thing happening there You know Like there's some odd energy

[01:29:26] Some odd choice Some odd moment Where it just feels like she is never letting her scene play out In the conventional obvious way Even from how she's written it When she's often written weird screenplays And even just casting odd people So that they're throwing

[01:29:42] Inherent existence is throwing in an odd energy Sure And we talk about all this shit with like How are all these performances working in the same movie People of varying levels of stardom And different like Reputations and all of that

[01:29:56] But it is that thing where she's able to get everyone on the same page And in every scene Add some odd fucking Some layers that make you lean And go like what the fuck's going on here So if we can get horny for a second Let's get horny

[01:30:11] This will also circle back to my Pin in Virgin Your virgin pin Is this the first Oscar winning movie with butt play in it? Okay but that's related to my virgin thing Do you think This was brought up in that New York Times magazine feature That I

[01:30:29] You keep fucking jamming in my side I'm sorry I just read it last night And I thought it was really well written I didn't write it Well I guess I hadn't thought about that Because I thought he must have fucked at some point

[01:30:44] But do you think Sam Neill's character Stewart is a virgin I don't know Because in that article they suggested that he was a virgin I was like he's so freaked out by Well she goes right to the butt I mean she does go right to the butt

[01:30:58] It's just a move I'm not objecting I'm just saying And he's like I don't know I mean there's certainly He's very afraid of any kind of Like not in a way But he does want to grab her Because he's got the sort of Male brain alpha thing

[01:31:16] You're mine, you're my property But yes To be essentially Negotiating a dowry It's like Look She doesn't talk She's obsessed with her fucking piano She has a kid A whirling dervish And he's like yeah sure Maybe he's a bit of an awkward fella Like if that's what he's

[01:31:43] You know I can't remember the name Because Nessie is Genevieve Letman And the other one The other sort of maid helper lady He keeps sort of confiding in her And she's like it's fine She'll touch you eventually So yeah maybe he is Sexually inexperienced I guess

[01:32:03] And she does go straight Is this the only Oscar winning movie? The first This is my counter to that I don't have an answer Does Midnight Cowboy Have implied butt play? It might Well obviously like He's like Right but it's not on screen So I guess

[01:32:27] We don't know what they do in Gone With The Wind Is butt play in that too? Off screen doesn't count I just sort of wanted to say I said it to Esther the other day Yeah I know you've been thinking about it a lot I think this movie

[01:32:44] We've talked about this on other episodes How like Ben is just making the funniest faces right now It's really good Yeah butt play Do you like this movie Ben? I haven't gotten a piano take from you yet Like how did you feel about the piano

[01:33:00] Because you loved Sweetie so much Sweetie seems like a very bad movie It's sort of chaos And dirty Hell yeah And also Ben's dated more than a couple of Sweeties And he's been a bit of a Sweetie He's been a bit of a Sweetie

[01:33:17] Can you do the move on the chair? He's been a Sweetie I can absolutely do the move on the chair I won't do it here There's not enough space But trust that's happened But this movie were you more perplexed by? No it made me feel a lot

[01:33:37] You find this film what? I said our finest film credit But it's not straight forward And that's why I broached this with you This film is really hard to describe to this day Yes And I think I've said this on some other podcasts But it must have been

[01:33:55] I remember at the time Schindler's List, what's that about? She's saving lives By putting him The piano, what's it about? So she is married To someone She's got a piano And she's going to trade the keys For sexual favors To this other guy

[01:34:18] It's just hard to describe the piano It's about a woman's will It's about the sky It's a little bit about the sea But that's why I keep on Going like this has to be adapted From some indecipherable novel Like it feels like this movie

[01:34:34] Is her taking on some novel You could never adapt I mean to think about her work It feels similar to Power of the Dog Which is based on a novel And the novel is semi autobiographical There's two layers But you had to sort of describe

[01:34:52] I feel like writing this year I've had to describe the Power of the Dog a lot Well it's about a macho cowboy Who makes life hell For a woman And also his psychosexual relationship With like her son And it's just like If you describe it that way

[01:35:11] You're loading people with the wrong expectations Right exactly It's so like to boil it down To like when you have to write Here's what to look forward to At the movies this weekend It's like very hard To make it sound like you me and Dupree

[01:35:28] And then someone watching is like What the fuck is this thing This is what I was going to say I know I have a tendency to read Roger Ebert quotes on this podcast But it's just He often could turn a phrase And I just think sometimes

[01:35:44] He has a way of just cutting through To the heart of something so cleanly But this is the line from his review That really jumped out to me Because almost any time we cover a movie To see Roger Ebert's review He wrote

[01:35:58] The piano is as peculiar and haunting As any film I've seen It is one of those rare movies That is not just about a story Or some characters But about a whole universe of feeling Thank you Roger Very similar to Ben's take Yeah it's a lot of feelings

[01:36:16] Like and much like you're saying About Power of the Dog You're like okay she's here She's married to this guy She wants her piano That's when she's happy Michael Nyman She's playing her ditties on the piano But then would you see The whole thing of Harvey Keitel

[01:36:37] Being like give me the piano Coming and then Describing Keitel's character It's also very hard It's fascinating and hard To decipher those motivations In those moments He takes them down To the beach Watches her play the piano Becomes sort of consumed and fascinated

[01:36:59] He decides to bring it up He knows He has this sort of plan At one point There would have been a way To make this movie Where it's like this guy is a super Fucking creep You think that's what it's going to be

[01:37:17] You play the piano while I do stuff The fact that he says do stuff Do things that I enjoy But also Even his introduction Is like is Harvey Keitel playing a Maori tribesman No he's like an expat Who's gotten very obsessed with their culture

[01:37:34] His whole existence is confusing Who has a wife Well she lives in England In a hall He's got a picture of her in his wallet She's a model He's sort of I do think they're really parallel works With Power of the Dog They're really really parallel works

[01:37:55] It is the Phil Burbank thing This guy in Phil Burbank This guy was a Yale classics major And has assumed This role Of the cowboy And it's sort of the same thing This is a guy from England Who has assumed this role As Maori

[01:38:15] Essentially like a man of the woods But their first interactions Are so Because it is All of her work Is very feminist It's this tension Of There's this negotiation She agrees to the negotiation He's going to trade her keys She talks him down to black keys

[01:38:39] She has an agency in the negotiation She has an agency in the negotiation Pretty quickly he's like forget it It's a thing You think that's what the movie is It's this moment where you're sort of like How into this is I mentioned this to David

[01:38:56] When we were just texting about the movie When he lies under the piano And asks her to lift her skirt There is this forcefulness to it There's this sort of It's very uncomfortable You wonder how could they pee in these things I do wonder And he starts fingering

[01:39:14] I'm sorry that I used my finger In this conversation And Ben turn that up on mic He starts fingering this hole In her stockings And it is so erotic And you sort of can tell She's not resisting it But there's this But obviously she doesn't say anything

[01:39:36] Because she doesn't speak So it's this whole sort of This dynamic that is very hard And you're sort of Befuddled But also it's As I said it's very erotic You understand how she is Sort of being turned on By this thing And she doesn't go

[01:39:59] And as it progresses There's something about her that's resistant But she's also not going unwillingly What I find fascinating Is thinking about two great I will say great Great movies that we have covered on this podcast In the past Happy Feet and Happy Feet 2

[01:40:18] Movies that are also about the power dynamics Of sex You have to sing your heart song I'll trade you piano keys For heart songs Lust Caution and Elle Are two movies I was thinking about That also have these very complicated Sexual power dynamics

[01:40:38] Where you're like is this manipulative Has it crossed over Where is it fantasy being indulged And where is it actual domination Has it actually become love Or is it Stockholm syndrome And Elle is a movie Where she kind of cannot figure out He's into it And instigating it

[01:40:58] But also the unpredictability The loss of power Is part of what she's doing Spoiler he does truly turn out to be An awful villainous person It's France Everything is different Lust Caution is sort of tragic for her But it's a whole thing in that movie

[01:41:17] Where this is a relationship A transactional relationship There's something she's trying to gain From these sexual tris But at some point the emotions get tied up And she's actually in love with him Is it just because of the amount of time They spend together Whatever it is

[01:41:35] This is a movie where you kind of expect It's a happy ending That's what's crazy about it It is a happy ending I mean it's not a fully happy ending Because the last line of the movie Is her reflecting on the watery grave That she could have had

[01:41:51] If her will had not brought her up Which was Campion's original plan Her original script Take her down And then Campion was like No I think she should But it does end up very romantic She realizes that this is What she wants

[01:42:10] And it doesn't feel like it's just wires getting crossed Can we also talk about the fact That their first full sex scene Is almost entirely filmed from the perspective of Sam Neill Spying Under the floorboards Peeping He is peeping under the floorboards He's in a ditch Peeping

[01:42:30] The whole mystery of her character Is that she doesn't even know why she doesn't talk She has a relationship with a piano With a piano teacher Shut up Right There's this intimation That the relationship with the piano teacher That she had Was how Flora Anna Paquin came around

[01:42:57] Anna Paquin says tell me the story of my father The weird cartoon and all that But that was Someone maybe getting close To cracking the mystery of this person And then Giving up or fleeing It not working out So that's part of what's going on

[01:43:15] At the end there At least That's the tension He has to be aggressive Or coercive in a strange way To start chipping away at her shell Well he's nonverbal I think that's He can express himself Like her He can't read That's not his thing

[01:43:40] He reacts to her playing the music He reacts to her playing the music Because that is a nonverbal way Of expressing herself Sam Neill Obviously a learned guy Or whatever He has no concept He's watching her play the piano He's not like Oh she seems different

[01:44:02] When she's doing this He literally thinks There's that moment where he asks I should find this character's name His sort of like companion Not Nessie Because Nessie is Genevieve Lemon But the other woman He asks her Before they get the piano up

[01:44:22] Can they make the piano off the table And Flora is singing scales Singing a song Is this a red flag? She's playing a table Is she Is she not Mentally off the table Their follow up question is Was there any sound coming out of it No, no sound

[01:44:45] It wasn't a musical table They do ask that follow up question But clearly there must have been Some sort of organ component And he's just like The only way he can The only way he can sort of understand The idea of this woman

[01:45:02] Is that she must just be fucked up But he doesn't want to Try and understand Clearly she is Slightly fucked up But he thinks she must be sort of mentally disabled But she's slow It's one of the things That is interesting And savvy about casting Holly Hunter

[01:45:22] And that firecracker Spark plug element That we talked about Is that so much of the dynamic Is mute woman He's like yeah I'm fine with that Kid I'm fine with that And the subtext seems to be She'll be like subservient She'll be like grateful

[01:45:42] This is like an unwanted woman She's like damaged goods She might be dumb And he's like Not a total turn off And he's like You should be totally fucking indebted to me And it also is where the Holly Hunter Persona starts to come out

[01:46:01] Even though she's not speaking She's angrily writing her notes We gotta kidnap a baby It's obviously also She said this movie is very inspired by Bronte By Wuthering Heights in particular And the sort of blue beard Well that is literally In the movie

[01:46:21] Banes is a sort of Heath Cliff He's the wild He's the wild man of the moors But not the moors Whatever they have in New Zealand I think it's like the jungle It's like a rainforest It's crazy The environment Because it's so damp It's muddy It's very cool

[01:46:45] We haven't had many opportunities to talk Sort of swampy terrain I think in the particular kind of clothes They're wearing It makes it so absurd Just that people would carry on Living like they were back In wee old England No no it's true

[01:47:06] And you're like in a rainforest You're wearing this absurd dress Right Like the mud is knee high There's an amazing shot too Of them trying to walk around And they grab another piece of wood To sort of throw out on the mud For her and Flora

[01:47:25] And they try to walk And then they just walk out of the piece of wood And just sink They don't belong And they're trying to civilize the land In this way that is completely perverse And I think the Maori They're kind of like

[01:47:41] What are you fucking guys doing? This is insane And yes It's not really about the rape of a country That England carried out There are other movies that are explicitly about that Yeah Jennifer Kent's movie The Nightingale That was a good movie recently Not Australia But very similar

[01:48:03] Not for the faint of heart But it's one of those things If you're going to make the movie that's about that That movie is as unpleasant to watch as The Nightingale If Jane Campion I'm not excusing it If Jane Campion was addressing all of that more explicitly

[01:48:18] In this film It would overpower everything else she's trying to say Because Nightingale is a movie that is totally consumed By the sort of horrific Yeah anyway But it's Yeah it's right And that's why Sam Neill's character is pathetic Like in many ways Like it's like

[01:48:38] He's trying to make a mark on the land In a way that just feels like pointless Yeah and there is that argument about the land Why do they want it What do they want with this land What even gives them claim to it Right

[01:48:52] I love that moment too where Kytel offers the land And he's like But it's some swampy shit right Like marsh shit What are we talking here But this all testifies to Sam Neill's impotence Yeah And then she's off with fucking Baines And he also kind of lacks status

[01:49:10] That he ended up there Right And now has found himself having kind of a little bit of money But still he is so weak and impish Does that make sense as a read It absolutely does You know like because there's the whole colonial sort of era

[01:49:27] To this movie And then you know her character too And we've sort of touched on this But it's just like She has so much power and yet lives in a time where women Don't really have any power But she is She is sort of

[01:49:44] The piano is ultimately what she wants But then Kytel And her relationship That whole dynamic I mean it's so nuanced One thing I want to This is from the dossier We talked about on the Angel at my table That's such a colorful movie

[01:50:02] And she wanted to emphasize how bright and green New Zealand is And Sweden looks like a pig in the city But this movie It's very dark And there essentially arriving English settlers Burned the trees down Because New Zealand was this bush That was dark

[01:50:18] Because it was so much forest That there was no light penetrating So she wanted this movie to be much more claustrophobic Like when you're in You know off the beach Really dark It's like you can't fucking It's so inhospitable To what they're doing It's not inhospitable to people

[01:50:39] But it's inhospitable to people in nice dresses He takes his top hat off And combs his hair And puts his dumb hat back on He's obsessed with the hair comb When they're like finally you've dropped that shit You're wasting that time with the fucking Dapper Dan It is

[01:50:57] Look there are larger things The cruelty is more the point But it does sort of underline The absurdity of colonization Where it's like why are you trying to change This land and these people to fit into your Who gives a shit Why are you

[01:51:13] Insisting they adapt to you Anyway I hate that I'm going to say this What a horrible way to start a sentence Especially on a Jane Cambion episode Mark his dance so he can cut it But the thought entered my head And I now just need to verbalize it

[01:51:33] Harvey Keitel would have been a good Wolverine I was just thinking about his little squat body Can we talk about the sex scenes They're hot They're so hot She directs incredibly hot sex scenes Because they are about two people fucking Not one person fucking another person

[01:51:55] She captures these moments that usually are not Caught in sex scenes Keitel 5'7 he's Wolverine sized And that dick is probably 7.5 His little claw I think a thing that she captures in sex scenes That you rarely see Because sex scenes are usually so choreographed

[01:52:22] In movies and so deliberately shot In terms of the angles You're not seeing full bodies in that kind of way Is like she captures the weird Silent negotiation of positions You know She captures those moments after sex Or how you transition into having sex

[01:52:41] Or when you change positions That no one puts in movies There's this moment when Please Esther Go off He grabs her butt In a way This is too hot for blank check Cut it out Also Esther's ban from the show Where we're moving her previous episodes

[01:53:03] In their first big sex scene Not when they're just sharing the bed But the way he sort of moves her He moves her in such a way You see the flesh of her butt Sort of move under his hand In a way that is very tactile

[01:53:23] And very sexy And natural Rather than what you're saying Sex scenes are very complicated I'm not saying everyone's fucking up It's hard Actors will be like I want to do this and not this You have to choreograph it that way I will only do XY That's fine

[01:53:48] But Holly Hunter is very much like Who gives a shit We have five senses baby Here's another thing I'll say I'm going to go off Another thing that is captured For other sex scenes I've seen To your point With the butt But the way Your body changes

[01:54:10] As you move I feel like so often Sex scenes When you see nudity in films Your sense of what someone's body parts look like Are very much based on the composition of that frame And the first time they lie naked together It's such a long Unbroken shot

[01:54:29] And the physics of her body change Depending on her positioning And the speed at which she's moving Which is stuff that Unconsciously registers in your brain Of like I'm watching two actual people Having some sexual encounter Rather than The choreographed Skinamax style Representation of

[01:54:53] She's obviously not filming actual sex But there's a way Even when Do it Even when he's sort of He's sort of about to Put it in She's not filming actual sex But you see the awkward movement Of how that works But that's her obsession

[01:55:17] People being naked is so awkward People pooping and peeing is so awkward Not only that She both celebrates it and finds it funny Which is why Gene Campion is good at it And other people are maybe not Or would not broach those topics But yes, obviously

[01:55:34] When you're a teenager and you have not had sex yet And you watch a sex scene You're like There's sort of specific Physics that you don't quite understand And they are awkward And not cinematic Like or whatever They are not traditionally cinematic

[01:55:52] My favorite sex scene of all time Remains Margaret The Kieran Culkin scene That scene is very visceral That's like the first time I've seen a movie captured that And it's specifically Like Lost Virginia Teenagers But it's like the weird negotiating Of what do you want to do next

[01:56:10] We put a pin in Virgins No, no, no I already brought it out It's whether or not Sam Neill's character is Is he a virgin We can unpin our virgin sacrifice From the wall I have never signed a nudity clause in my life And whenever I've done nudity

[01:56:29] I felt it was right I mean we've got five senses I thought this was David speaking I have never signed a nudity clause But I would imagine the actors on this film Weirdly Griffin gave me that contract When we started this show

[01:56:45] I just love this quote from her though Whenever I've done nudity I felt it was right I mean we've got five senses So if you're expressing something about what it means to be alive In the world, how can you subtract sex from that? That's just Holly Hunter

[01:56:59] Talking off the cuff That's Hunter talking? She's been naked in plenty of... She clearly is just sort of like what? Incredibles 2 Wait What was I going to say That's on him Don't uck me This has nothing to do with sex But this is in the dossier

[01:57:22] This film was entirely financed By a French company called CB2000 Oh right It's a weird company name when it shows up And it has an odd title Where it's like I don't know She gets the money 9 million dollars is the budget of this movie It's nothing for 1993

[01:57:42] And I guess partly Just that she's such a canned darling She gets the money But she hasn't had a commercial break Canned darling J-Dog Khan Khan It was like a rival to Studio Canal Which is obviously The French dominance But in the 90s It only exists for 8 years

[01:58:09] They funded The Piano, Underground, Taste of Cherry And Secrets and Lies So 4 Palme d'Or winners Twin Peaks Firewalk with me Lost Highway and The Straight Story They did the Motivar movies They did The Glass Shield The Charles Burnett movie They did Kansas City

[01:58:27] It's one of those weird little booms That no one would remember unless you dug into it Where was the money coming It was released in America by Miramax I'm pretty sure Who the fuck was putting up the money for this? For everything we've been talking about Weird Non-pitch

[01:58:45] Explicit nudity This is just like This weird little boomlet in the 90s Correct me if I'm wrong But this is really the first time that Campion Makes a mark on a mainstream level Absolutely She's a cult She's a local hero And a film festival phenomenon Film festival

[01:59:08] No one would have known Who she was We had Dana Stevens on for Angel at My Table And she said I saw that and Piano in theaters Dana I think was an exceptionally hip Attuned person People who in big cities are going to the

[01:59:24] Art house theater to see the new film She would have been Like fucking Drive My Car guy This is out of nowhere The Piano And it is just For the fans Her guarantor for a blank check career In Hollywood that is Very challenging

[01:59:45] Here's another thing about that movie being An odd pitch at this budget Right Hollyhunter's career at this point We're talking about how out of line this is With what she had established at that point in her career The other thing is Post broadcast news

[02:00:01] Which is obviously a hit Spielberg's like She's the lead of my next film I think everyone thought she was going to be This like blockbuster sort of like adult romantic comedy drama Actress But they're not big hits So it's not like she was a fallen star

[02:00:18] But she also isn't coming into this As like Hollyhunter's money in the bank Anything she wants to make Kytel is probably more of a name Right And Sam Neill has not had his break out I mean he was Damien Sure but like Sigourney

[02:00:34] You could imagine getting this movie made If she wanted to do this 9 million dollars are set You're good, you're off This movie coming together is odd Connecting this heart is odd The fact that it broke out of sort of like Art house circles Can you imagine

[02:00:52] We were talking about this David Can you imagine people in 93 And like obviously we can't We could probably talk to some right now But like Going to think that they're seeing This sort of stayed period piece And then there's fucking butt play Well this is the thing

[02:01:11] Anyway but yeah This is a boom time For the Merchant Ivory type movie The remains of the days And that's absolutely a money maker But those movies are not You know tit heavy Or dick heavy They're not dick heavy Maurice If you see dicks in Maurice

[02:01:33] Shout out to Maurice Oh my god Who was in Sherlock later No wait Sorry I'm Rupert Graves There's a lot of Ruperts Rupert Wyatt's the director Does he show dick Rupert Wyatt I'm pretty sure you see Rupert Graves Dick in Maurice But not Hugh Not Hugh

[02:01:57] He knew he was destined for fame What Ben Well we're at 2 and a half No but we're over 2 hours That was it I just want to say The poster for this film The classic poster that we know Is sort of the stark image

[02:02:18] Of the piano on the beach Which feels like a poster If you're making your fucking Rochelle Rochelle Parody of art house Movie in a comedy It would be like this poster But then there is also this poster That is I feel like Was also used

[02:02:37] That's what I'm saying It's funny that they're trying to sell it on like Holly and Harvey To describe this poster She's smiling and he's kissing her He's kissing her It's got a winner best film Can film festival over it Harvey was the fucking Looks like fucking Chocolat

[02:02:57] Harvey was the king of this Whatever difficult fucking movie He somehow made it look like a gentle romance Or a comedy There's like the famous My left foot poster Where it's Daniel Day Lewis' headshot And he's got long hair looking like a fucking snack Smiling

[02:03:15] You know like clean shaven How different is this poster Honestly This poster is heavier on chocolate Obviously Chocolat He must have been so relieved Finally the poster is there It actually is representing What the movie seemed to be Should we wrap up the plot Yes

[02:03:40] Did we talk about the plot I don't know I think we talked about sex scenes We talked about butt play So maybe around there This movie is two hours long It goes by really fast I don't know if you guys felt that way I also feel like

[02:03:58] When I queued up Is this movie like 2.45 Not only is it two hours Seriously there was some moment Where I checked the running time And I was like I'm almost done This has just been moving Which is weird because there isn't a lot of plot

[02:04:14] There aren't a lot of locations There's not a lot of movement It is funny that it's so gripping and fast Sorry go ahead I wasn't going to say anything Fine well you know what I guess I'll go fuck myself I'm trying to think of plot stuff

[02:04:31] We sort of haven't covered Flora We haven't covered the climax He basically What happens is They start this affair Sam Neill It's initially a coercive affair That immediately becomes a romance An illicit romance Sam Neill sees this Is hiding under Sees it Pac-1 sees it too

[02:05:00] Everyone sees it There's not a lot going on People are lining up outside the tickets booth Trying to watch the fucking show Eventually tries to literally lock her in his house And she There is this moment where she sort of Considers Which leads to the butt play

[02:05:18] She sort of considers This man Could I have this intimate relationship with him She doesn't let him touch her But she touches him And he's not reciprocating it at all He's so tense He's so upset And he's repressed I think He's already attacked her At this point

[02:05:40] He's already sort of Attacked her But he has not yet chopped her finger off What happens is He sexually attacks her He attacks her in the sort of woods Like Does have The kind of incel energy Where it's like why don't you like me Well he sort of

[02:06:03] Well you're into Baines Who's this sort of macho man Why aren't you into sort of my Display of machismo I'm doing everything right Why do you like him and not me And then she takes one of the keys off She writes a note to Baines

[02:06:21] She tells Flora to go Give the key to Baines So romantic Even though Baines can't read Is that one of the more romantic gestures in a movie You do think about it that Baines can't read So like he just has to infer That this is a beautiful story

[02:06:37] Maybe he can read a little bit I don't know She should have done like a pictogram But she should have done like A pictogram of just like A penis and vagina and a heart in between Flora wants to refuse to go Because Flora's also sort of like

[02:06:54] Because I think with Flora She finds this like She finds this element of power In being able to tattle on her mom And this relationship And she's been like chained to her mother In this weird way Like it's a very damaging relationship

[02:07:10] In a lot of ways even though they're also kind of symbiotic And fascinating And she brings the key straight to Sam Neill Who then Chops her finger off I think initially Campion He was going to mutilate her more I don't know That was going to be a very

[02:07:29] Intense sequence And they settled on a finger And the splatter of blood on Paquin There's like an Evil Dead 2 style Shot of just like The poetic All she wants is to play the piano Like the loss of her right He knows how to do the damage

[02:07:47] In a way And Neill is scary in that Like that switch And he goes Damien Neill is great at being scary It is all the more surprising That he was chosen for Jurassic Park And that he works so well Because he's scary at the beginning of Jurassic Park

[02:08:05] Threatening children with the russer after claws Yes the fact that he's able to warm up that much Is surprising Because he hadn't really shown that in his career Up until that point in time We haven't touched on the Supernatural element of this movie Which is sort of

[02:08:22] For much of the film played As just like Anna Paquin's childlike interpretation Of certain things There's the story where you have that one weird shot Of animation About the lightning striking I love that That being the cause of the mutants But there's a thing also where

[02:08:40] Sam Neill goes kind of mental Believing he's heard her voice In his head And he goes to Kytel I heard her voice and I looked at her lips And they weren't moving I don't know what the fuck is going on But that's also the key to Sam Neill

[02:08:56] Just being like get out of here He's so obsessed with her mutants And with her not wanting Her force fields Not wanting him in any way Yes he's going to start hearing her That's how I've always interpreted it But it is also this moment

[02:09:12] Of he asks have you ever heard her And Baines lies to him She whispers something to him And then he says I heard her She didn't speak And it was about her will She's crossing some sort of psychic barrier Because she needs to escape

[02:09:29] And you do sort of By the narration About will you are sort of led to believe Something got through to him But am I misremembering that there's a thing About another person Having heard her voice at some point Well it's a piano teacher Thought that he could

[02:09:48] Hear her in his head as well You're also thinking about the fact That Baines keeps remembering Being in this water tank And having adamantium Injected into him And this guy is like don't worry Logan You're going to be just fine I'm a southerner Who's our current Harvey Keitel

[02:10:10] That's how you solve for current day Wolverine Or just cast old man Keitel Yeah just do it Clifford was like we're going in a different direction We know Hugh Jackman owned this role for 20 plus years But don't worry We've got a great successor It's Harvey Keitel

[02:10:26] 70 something Harvey Keitel He had one contractual stipulation He's 82 years old He's old Had to show dick He's demanded that he show dick One more thing about the piano too Oh you want to stick on this check You mean the physical piano No I was talking about the movie

[02:10:47] The Panana Phil Burbank does call it the Panana In the Power of the Dog Some of that fantasy too What you were talking about earlier Flora is Flora invents All these stories Flora also creates The sort of mystery around her mom

[02:11:09] She invents stories about who her father was Her way of She mystifies Her mother to the public Almost more than her mother does It's not real sign language either Really It's some kind of hybrid There's no way they ever learned You know They just have

[02:11:31] Their own means of communication But I think she's elaborating A lot She'll only do a couple of movements It's a whole thing But that is so out of A Victorian novel That weird dynamic It's so good We have to briefly talk about The very end Of course

[02:11:56] Not the very end actually The overboard This is the thing When you read Jane Campion Quick She is sitting in the mud In the rain After losing a finger I was devastated It's such a powerful Moment With an actor I love when things cut through to Ben

[02:12:25] There's a look in Ben's eye Right now How hard this hit him This is one of the great works This movie One of the great works Jane Campion Probably sells herself short Or has a self-deprecating way Of talking about this Because obviously

[02:12:47] She had this movie in her head In some way When you ask her about the ending She's like We didn't really know what we were going to do Jan Chapman The producer She still works with her Didn't you meet her? What if the piano goes overboard

[02:13:08] And takes her with it That was apparently Something they got to fairly late That obvious poetic That she's still tied to this Object That is going to kill her And then her will triumphs Like you said Esther Their original plan Was to have her die Have her

[02:13:32] At this low moment Very romance novel Again be claimed by the sea I think it would have just felt Punishing It doesn't feel like they Like they Went with a happy ending Of Uplift I think it would have felt artificially Oppressive Performatively dark To just have her die

[02:13:58] On top of everything else Because it is about Her will It's not uplifting It's this moment In that moment I chose it In another moment It so leaves opportunity Maybe she wouldn't have chosen it She has agency Robbed of choice And the fact that

[02:14:23] She is constantly brought back to that moment She talks about That is the true last line of the movie She can't get over Not just her piano at the bottom of the seat But her Body floating over the piano Griffin is showing a pic of Anna

[02:14:40] Anna doing like the red carpet Turn and repeat Small repeat whatever Backstage after you win it But the look on her face is still like Jesus fucking Christ They gave me an Oscar Sorry I just pulled that up While I was checking a thing

[02:14:58] Wait Esther did you finish your point I just Look we can bring this up in other episodes But I want to say it now That's nice It's so wild that in the year Of total Schindler dominance That was obviously the big narrative of that year

[02:15:14] Spielberg finally wins his Oscar These three amazing women Also win for this incredibly esoteric movie The year that Tom Hanks becomes Elected president of Hollywood And fucking Jurassic Park Has become number one movie of all time That's such a seismic year At the Academy Awards Where you're like

[02:15:35] This is minting the Miramax Dominance of the 90s It's the final victory lap It's the anointment Of Hanks It's wild You have someone Almost break the record for youngest winner ever First I just want to shout out Quickly We could shout her out in later episodes

[02:15:57] I don't want to just pin it for later and forget about it Janet Peterson Who functioned as both costume designer And production designer I almost in my head Is the great Janet Peterson Janet Patterson I'm sorry I said it wrong But she was Production designer on

[02:16:19] Two Friends, Portrait of a Lady Holy Smoke, Bright Star And costume designer on Two Friends, Piano, Portrait of a Lady Holy Smoke, Bright Star She also did costumes on Far From the Madding Crowd PJ Hogan, Peter Pan Oscar and Lucinda And a couple other TV movies

[02:16:40] She has very few credits overall She died in 2016 She had four Oscar nominations Three of which were for Jane Campion Movies She rarely worked outside of Campion Her INDB just says She's a specialist In period costumes from the 19th century

[02:17:01] All four of her Oscar nominated films are of that era A noted recluse who rarely does interviews Or attends award ceremonies between jobs She returns to quiet home life from her family I just think it's a fascinating Career Yeah, absolutely If we're talking about career though

[02:17:17] Can we also talk about how this was shot by the guy who fucking shot Black Hat Stuart Dryberg Who has a very varied filmography Absolutely rules But wildly different looking films Who fucking shot Eon Flux But also Bridget Jones' Diary

[02:17:31] And then of course we have to mention fricking Michael Nyman He made the music I remember when we talked to Dana She was like, I never liked the piano as much Because I found the score so dominating Which obviously the score is like The funniest thing about it

[02:17:47] Is he was best known as the Peter Greenway guy He'd worked on Peter Greenway She comes to him being like I want you to write this music That's going to express her feelings This is going to be so crucial to the emotions of the movie

[02:18:02] And I think you're perfect for it And then apparently there was a slight pause And she says, I don't want any of that Greenway shit So like You're hiring this guy but you do not do What he's famous for It's so crazy And it changed my career

[02:18:18] Because then I have this other career doing much more baroque music And people thought I had sold out In my weird minimal music community They thought, what's he doing I don't know if I'd just been Dana-pilled But especially the first 30 or 40 minutes of the movie I was thinking

[02:18:32] I kind of regret it The score is a little oppressive Once she starts playing the piano again And a lot of the music becomes more diegetic It worked for me But the first 30 or 40 minutes It feels like they maybe go a little too hard

[02:18:46] If I can throw out one Can I say some disparate things that Drysberg shot Sure Just like how fucking weird his career is So he obviously does Angel at My Table He does this He does Portrait of a Lady He does Lone Star In between

[02:19:05] He shoots the pilot for Sex and the City He establishes that look That essentially transforms The next 25 years of New York City Where New York's like, fuck We gotta look more like this show Right? Analyze this Runaway Bride, Bridget Jones's Diary Kate and Leopold

[02:19:26] He just does the run of all this Romanticized city Aeon Flux The Painted Veil No Reservations NIMS Island Amelia He does the Boardwalk Empire pilot Which is like, oh this is now What prestige TV shows look like He does the pilot for Luck

[02:19:48] Probably the pilot with the most horse deaths On set I think Secret Life of Walter Mitty Then Black Hat Alice Through the Looking Glass The Great Wall Gifted, The Only Living Boy in New York The Upside, Ben is Back, Men in Black International That's a fucking weird career

[02:20:06] I don't know what to tell you I love him We should play the box office game But we'll maybe do some final thoughts Ben's being very responsible with episode I am being responsible Hey, thanks I love getting a good boy You are a good boy

[02:20:25] One little last moment I'd love to spotlight Is the play The Shadow Figures It's so good Like where I was like I would be entertained by this They should put this up in St. Anne's Warehouse When they were rehearsing The axe thing Chopper's hands off

[02:20:45] I felt that too Also the heads through The sheets With the blood It's inventive It was so well done Keep it entertaining A really fucking funny moment Is when the Maori think it's real And they intervene And they shut down the production Very funny

[02:21:09] Why would you fake this? You lunatics The box office game Came out November 19th 1993 It had obviously Debuted at Ken Where it won the Palm Door In a tie with Farewell My Concubine She's the first woman To win the Palm Door

[02:21:32] The second woman to win the Palm Door Fucking to ten Julie Kokunaro You're forgetting I think that Lea Seydoux And Adele They were technically part of the win All three of them won So there are four women Who have won the Palm Door And it's two actresses

[02:21:55] DeCarnow and Campion In retrospect You're crazy He was kind of on the money Given how those women talked about How that movie was made Weirdly giving them the trophies I'm pretty sure that win is tainted It is I'm sorry It helps taint it less

[02:22:17] It makes it a little less tainted I never loved that movie No, I don't like that movie at all But I do always like when A Palm Door winner Is given by a jury president Who could never make that movie David, this is my take

[02:22:33] That I've thrown out to you We talked about Tim Burton This is the kind of movie I could never make in Hollywood I think that's a thing Where jury presidents usually give it to a movie Where they're like, I don't know how you could make this

[02:22:48] The jury president in 1993 Was Louis Mal I can't really speak to whether or not Louis Mal could have made Farewell My Concubine I don't think he could have made The Piano Eater Claudia Cardinale Beautiful Judy Davis Claudia Cardinale, beautiful You've delivered on that one This is a fun

[02:23:12] I just always like thinking about them Oh, this was the jury Of the 1993 Cannes Film Festival But also just the names of the people I drink with My rec room Anyway It opens November 19th Number one, it's a sequel It's one of the great comedies in American cinema

[02:23:30] The sequel is called Adam's Family Values There's nothing wrong with it I watched it on Christmas with my parents It's a perfect movie Every single joke works It's short Everyone has a complete character arc It's a perfect piece of movie making Perfect, no no

[02:23:51] My take on it, I had My most recent rewatch During the Panini Was it's the only Live action movie I would say That captures The comedic spirit of a great Simpsons episode Very good, agree with that It definitely has that

[02:24:10] Where it has the joke density and the absurdity But there still is some emotional grounding to it And it's just fucking relentless Without being exhausting It's a fucking incredible movie It's opening to $14 million Which I believe is disappointing The film was a financial disappointment

[02:24:26] It makes less than half of what the first one did Way less than half It made 46 It's wild how hard that movie flopped Considering it is so much better than the first one And not like different than the first one

[02:24:38] Where people are like what the fuck is this It just fixes all the problems Number two at the box office What was Piano's domestic total? I think it's 40 It's wild that those two movies flopped Piano made $40.1 million It's an adventure film From the Walt Disney Corporation

[02:24:56] Is it like an adventure 10,000 years in the making? No It's a tale that's been filmed many times I saw this in theaters It's the Three Musketeers With Sheen, Sutherland, O'Donnell and Platt Such a weird name And Tim Curry as the mean old Cardinal Richelieu And Rebecca de Mornay

[02:25:17] I remember I saw that in theaters When I was 7 years old And I was like this is probably the coolest movie I've ever seen I have no memory of it I just had swords and shit Are they doing another weird Three Musketeers now? They shouldn't Anytime they do

[02:25:33] It's just the collection of people Is such a good reflection of that exact moment in film It is funny How many times They've done it But they haven't done it since The Paul W.S. Anderson one That was the last It's been about 10 years

[02:25:51] I don't like formal sword fighting Nope You like casual But you don't like You like a back alley knife fight Like the last duel You've seen the last duel right? Oh Ben I got one in the last duel Ben By the time they're fighting with swords

[02:26:14] It is informal as shit You need to make sure you see that Before we do the blankies episode That's a high priority But I disagree with you I love formal sword fighting Because David loves rules David's favorite form of fighting Is fencing Because it's all rule based combat

[02:26:37] Number 3 at the box office Is a crime drama That was basically I don't know if it was a big hit But it was a movie that did fine Carlitos way I'm quick today You are And it's like But it's a great patina performance It's big but it's great

[02:26:59] It's the best movie of the 90s In like a 4 way tie I just saw that on the wikipedia And I was like really I went and sourced it Nobody left a palma That's a weird one to pick Anyway Alright number 4 at the box office

[02:27:17] Is a movie I'm going to have to look up Because it rings a bell I'm searching if I imagined The announcement of a new It's like a Super weepy Starring your favorite actor Me? Michael Keaton? Is it My Life? I'm getting all of these

[02:27:38] I gave you a good clue there But still I've never seen that one He's dying of cancer and he leaves notes for his children The poster sucks Nicole Kidman is in this I will say I love Isabelle Cossette's My Life Without Me I know the movie

[02:27:58] Very controversial movie at the time Really? Why? Ebert wrote a devastating review that destroyed it Where he was like It is unfathomable that she's not telling her kids That she has cancer I have cancer This cannot work That was a movie that had festival buzz

[02:28:16] And that review killed it And no one wanted to talk about it after that I've never seen it I was on vacation in a foreign country Sarah Polley She's very young She lives in a trailer with Scott Speedman

[02:28:31] And her two kids in the backyard of her mom's house Who's Debbie Harry And she realizes she's dying of cancer She doesn't tell her husband She doesn't tell the kids She doesn't tell the mom And she just sort of bucket lists I'm in my 20s

[02:28:47] I never really had an adolescence I want to make someone fall in love with me For the first time It's a film I really like And I think her Immaturity Is a big part of why she doesn't tell them Which is part of the whole thing

[02:29:04] I was going to say I was on vacation with my family In some foreign country And it was playing at a theater there And unsurprisingly when I would go on vacation With my family regardless of where we were Would just be like

[02:29:18] So my mom took me to the theater And we were like what's this thing playing? Sarah Polley movie? It was like a year after it had come out And made no impact in the United States And we were like this thing fucking rules

[02:29:30] Why is no one talking about this And the Ebert body blow makes perfect sense But there was a sequence in that movie In which Sarah Polley records Like 20 cassette tapes So that every year her daughters Are going to have a tape to listen to

[02:29:44] After she's dead of a new year It was one of the most emotionally devastating things I've ever seen And then I found out there's an entire movie Of Michael Keaton doing that And he's my favorite actor And I still have never had the courage to watch that movie

[02:29:57] I don't think it's good But yes, number 5 at the box office Is a film about a dog My life without me I lie It's a film about a dog Is it bingo? No It's a horror film About a dog It looks like it's going for Cujo Energy

[02:30:17] Is the title of the film The breed of the dog No, but it's a common Phrase for referring to dogs I've never heard of this film Good boy, rover, Fido I want to show you the poster I'm going to show it to Ben first Oh my god

[02:30:35] Man's best friend Okay, it's called Man's Best Friend This is Carpenter I love how there's posters that were just sort of like distorted This poster looks like someone taking a picture of a dog Like one second before the dog is mauling him

[02:30:50] It's like a primal scream album cover Yes, yes Nature created him, science perfected him But no one can control him Man's best friend Ali Shidi, Lance Henriksen Uh I don't know, there's like a science dog That is on the loose Other movies in the top 10 Nightmare Before Christmas

[02:31:13] Okay, a masterpiece that hopefully we'll cover soon on the show Remains of the day A masterpiece That probably won't cover as soon You don't want to do Ivory? We could, I'm just saying it's not as soon Tinkle the Ivory? It's funny Number 8, Cool Runnings

[02:31:31] I'm realizing this was probably the first year I was going to see movies that weren't cartoons Because I saw that, I saw Musketeers Number 9, Beverly Hillbillies Feels like a movie Ben might like Yeah And you know who directed Beverly Hillbillies Stanley Cooper No, you don't know this?

[02:31:47] Directed by Penelope Spheeris One of your favorite directors After being this fucking like Heavy metal counter cultural figure She weirdly fell into a rabbit hole Directing like Little Rascals, Beverly Hillbillies And she's like You make a hit and people just want you to do that thing again

[02:32:03] I became the person who adapted old TV Number 10 is The Piano Number 11 Esther is a movie you recently described to me I was on the show with Kathy Nijimy Hocus Pocus Apparently Esther could not remember the title of Hocus Pocus I was on This had an Oscar buzz

[02:32:20] And we did the IMDB game Which will have come out by this point I was given Thora Birch And I just like, I could not locate The name of Hocus Pocus I was like, it's got Kathy Nijimy And Sarah Jessica Parker And Bette Midler And for some reason

[02:32:38] My brain just like couldn't figure out Hocus Pocus Especially for a movie that in the last two years Has been canonized as if it were the Godfather of Park City But I was like, people are obsessed with it Like I just

[02:32:48] I obviously know the movie and I've seen the movie I just, my brain I like lost the words for Hocus Pocus Which is Kathy Nijimy sounds like It's the French title of Hocus Pocus Which is Kathy Nijimy Can I just say There is a two part

[02:33:07] Adaptation of Three Musketeers Being done by Pathé Part 1 April 5th, 2023 Three Musketeers Colon D'Artagnan And then part 2 December 13th 2023 They're doing the full matrix two parts six months apart Three Musketeers colon M'lady Oh! M'lady! But the cast includes Vincent Cassell, Romain Durie Eva Green They're getting them all

[02:33:38] Creeps! Weirdly she's playing D'Artagnan Creeps is playing Queen Anne of Austria Uh, Louis Guerrelle Is playing King Louis You know what the best thing about her is? She's from Luxembourg Who's from Luxembourg? Nobody but her She's literally the first and last person to be born Anyway That's true

[02:34:02] She's in these Three Musketeers movies You know once in a while the French make one of those movies Like the Asterix movies We're gonna spend a ton And everyone's in it There's like a mega budget live action Jean Dujardin Lucky Luke movie that also doesn't exist

[02:34:16] I think I'm hearing Oh it sounds like a piano is playing us off Oh my god Well I guess we should wrap up We're being dragged into the ocean by this piano? Esther Thank you so much for being on the show Thank you for having me

[02:34:33] Check out the book Available in two days Available in two days Check it out In the description There will be a link To buy At bookstores Thank you all for listening Please remember to rate, review and subscribe Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media

[02:34:56] Joe Bone and Pat Rounds for our artwork Leymon Kernig for our American All AJ McKeon Alex Barron for our editing Nick Lariano, JJ Birch For our research You can go to Blankies.reddit.com For some real nerdy shit You can go to our Shopify page

[02:35:17] For some real nerdy merch Including chip coin now in stock The Spreadmaster spatula will be there soon Heavily discounted t-shirts From previous years that are way out of date Patreon.com Blank check for blank check special features Where we are allowing ourselves to feel good While busting

[02:35:35] But also Just a thing we want to keep on spotlighting We're releasing Old episodes from behind the paywall Every ten days So every ten days on blank check Patreon page There will be a new episode for those who are subscribers And there will be an old episode

[02:35:53] That's just an open link now For anyone who's not a subscriber Alright, alright Griffin What I'm wrapping up the episode It takes like ten minutes now Well I'm sorry we hired so many people And we're creating jobs That we have multiple revenue streams Griffin just finish it

[02:36:11] Finish it Last time I heard you liked money Yeah I do I love it You're doing great but let's yeah Cause Esther is now putting on her jacket She's gone I did the wrap up so that Esther could leave

[02:36:23] That's the whole point she doesn't have to hear any of this You have to give everyone credit That's true Well you're done and finally And always And as always Get in my belly